SciAm: 5 Ways to Spot a Fake Photo
Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:56:54 pm PDT
Here’s a good article at Scientific American on 5 Ways to Spot a Fake Photo.
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Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:56:54 pm PDT
Here’s a good article at Scientific American on 5 Ways to Spot a Fake Photo.
650 comments
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BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Jun 4, 2008 12:58:19pm |
Step #1 - If it's posted by Reuters or AP & about Iraq or Lebanon, it's a fake.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 12:59:13pm |
Send in the Clones
Cloning—the copying and pasting of a region of an image—is a very common and powerful form of manipulation.
Gee, wonder where we saw that?
Oh, right, Adrian Hajj.
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:01:32pm |
The easiest way to spot a fake photo is to go to Rueters.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:01:46pm |
Found this on the site as well: Photo Tampering Throughout History
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:02:11pm |
re: #1 jcm
Source is Reuters or AP?
Beat me to it
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:04:35pm |
Thank you Charles for exposing today's film fakery practices some of us thought ended with the USSR's demise.
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:05:17pm |
Real Life Example:
1. Real
2. Fake
3. Not far from the truth
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Ojoe Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:06:32pm |
Unlike Obama's first speech about Rev. Wright, this actually should be required reading.
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lawhawk Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:06:56pm |
/it involves a Palestinian or Arab stringer who has ties to: (1) Hamas; (2) Fatah; (3) Iraqi insurgency; (4) al Qaeda; (5) any Arab government.
And the folks above forgot AFP when complaining about AP and Reuters.
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Egfrow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:08:15pm |
There quite a few more ways also such as focal length analysis of lens distortion. The focal length, size, and shape of a lens effects depth perception of objects in a scene. Any object added brings those features with it. 3D Scene recreation software can help find flaws in geometry of a scene or objects.
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El Anti-Idiotario Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:09:20pm |
Looking forward to this Scientific American article:
5 ways to spot a fake
/Hint: Barry Hussein
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:09:49pm |
re: #14 Dax
Scientific American is politically correct rag.....
They did use a campaign photo of Dubya's as their cloning example. Are they selling the old cabard "Bush lied"?
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:10:07pm |
re: #11 EC Marm
Real Life Example:
1. Real
2. Fake
3. Not far from the truth
A picture on the innerwebz...
It must be real.
/
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snowcrash Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:11:11pm |
Interesting reading. Does this mean Obamas halo is not real?/
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:12:29pm |
re: #14 Dax
Scientific American is politically correct rag.....
Other than two civil war era photos, every photo was manipulated by Socialists or the media.
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Don Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:12:38pm |
"Fake Photo" is awfully broad and would include staged photos (pristine toys and Korans placed in debris, etc.). This would be better entitled "5 Ways to Spot an Altered Photo."
A lot of this seemed obvious, and yet, I think there are some editors out there for whom the whole article would be most enlightening. What is it again that they teach in journalism school?
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:12:45pm |
I noticed that one of the comments (to the Scientific American article) asked why the authors of the article did not include halination...or those tell-tale halos which frequently occur...
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:13:27pm |
Notice how, with all the innumerable examples of fauxtography by the left, the authors chose the one trivial example by Republicans (that Kos went ballistic about in 2004), "filling in" the audience in a photo used in a Bush ad with additional audience members. (Example #4.)
The fact that they chose that one photo convinces me the authors dwell in the leftosphere and know probably nothing at all about the 2006 Reuters/Lebanon photopalooza.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:15:09pm |
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:16:33pm |
some forms of dark room/ computer work on pics has always happened in professional photo's back in the film period almost none of them were developed straight in black and white development they were often dodged and exposed in different ways.
the point is what is the reason for the darkroom activity? to make a better pic. that shows what is really there or to create a fake image?
that is the issue here.
a photo isn't reality it is just a slice of that reality.
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greenmiler Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:16:37pm |
How about 5 ways to spot a Microsoft Word document
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:16:41pm |
re: #28 MandyManners
It is a picture of the 3rd Holy Temple In Jerusalem on the Temple Mount in place of the disgusting dome...um of course its...oh never mind.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:17:04pm |
re: #14 Dax
Scientific American is politically correct rag.....
Yes. It has become that way.
I knew about this article when it first came out because I started getting links from sites that linked to the SciFi article AND my Reuters "Photo Fraud" piece together. Such as this one:
Shuttertalk: How to spot a fake photo.
According to Scientific American, here's 5 ways to tell whether a photo has been doctored:
...
By the way, this is definitely worth a read - staged and manipulated photos in the media. Very thorough investigation and write up.
[Link: www.zombietime.com...]...
How did you find this [zombietime link] ST?
The author seems amazingly informed about everthing going on in the news world, I wonder how he is able to keep track....
To bad he is hiding his identity, as he says himself, for good reason.
but I like knowing whose work it is I am reading.Impressive, anyway.
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El Anti-Idiotario Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:18:24pm |
re: #21 snowcrash
Interesting reading. Does this mean Obamas halo is not real?/
Of course is real. Chris Matthews says so.
/screw the MSM
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:18:41pm |
If you see a photo of Barack H. Obama, and his ears are pinned back, it's probably fake.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:19:04pm |
how many photo's in playboy were real? altered photo's not a new thing at all.
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:21:23pm |
re: #35 yochanan
how many photo's in playboy were real? altered photo's not a new thing at all.
Product photos (playboy included) are all altered.
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mean Gene Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:22:08pm |
Wow, Zombie, sounds like somebody is trying to appeal to your ego to trick you out of your safe place.
Glad to see you won't fall for flattery or cajoling.
Your hiding your identity is your strength.
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newsjunkie_ky Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:23:42pm |
I love my Country more than I hate McCain.
I have to keep repeating that mantra.
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:24:00pm |
re: #37 jcm
Product photos (playboy included) are all altered.
Boobs are products?
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:24:24pm |
re: #38 mean Gene
No amount of trickery or flattery will convince to reveal myself!
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:25:23pm |
re: #40 MandyManners
Boobs are products?
It's not like it's a secret, Mandy.
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Gearhead Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:25:45pm |
re: #40 MandyManners
Boobs are products?
Tonight on How It's Made...
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Catttt Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:25:49pm |
OT
My Siamese cat just had a hissy fit because I made it rain.
He's now sulking in the bedroom.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:26:46pm |
re: #36 jcm
How about this one: Real or Fake?
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Endangered in MASS Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:26:52pm |
re: #16 lawhawk
/it involves a Palestinian or Arab stringer who has ties to: (1) Hamas; (2) Fatah; (3) Iraqi insurgency; (4) al Qaeda; (5) any Arab government
Is there any other kind of Pali/Arab stringer?
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redstateredneck Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:28:00pm |
re: #40 MandyManners
Boobs are products?
You didn't see the products on that gal in the last thread?
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:28:27pm |
re: #40 MandyManners
Boobs are products?
In playboy yes......
Of course I only read the articles.
/;-P
I know a photog who does food pics for one of the food mags. Hours setting up a shot, and the tricks to make food look good, then hours of touch up. If you wonder why your dish never looks like the pic... it's because it's not possible. Fashion mags, skin mags, the ads nothing is "as shot."
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Don Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:28:28pm |
re: #51 ploome hineni
boobs are [beautiful] glands
There, fixed that for ya.
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Catttt Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:29:23pm |
re: #52 redstateredneck
You didn't see the products on that gal in the last thread?
I remember an old guy in a news thing saying, and I quote: "I don't care if they're fake. I like them anyway."
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:29:33pm |
I haven't done any real study on it, but it seems to me that Obama has been the opening page photo on newsites 2-1 to Hillary during this campaign, and 30-1 to McCain.
But what's more, it seems he is very, very often photographed from below, looking up. With the camera at his waist level, he looks like a father figure to us. And why is he always photographed looking up? I'm not talking campaign photos either.
Quick homepage look-see:
Foxnews - a car
MSNBC - McCain, pointing at us, mouth open, camera level with him.
Yahoo news - Obama, camera level with him, hugging people
CNN -Obama, camera looking slightly up
ABCNews - Obama, camera level (rotating w/a Hillary pic, no MCain)
CBS News - McCain and Obama, camera level, Obama looking up and lit from above
Google news - Obama- tiny pic, camera level
Obama 5, McCain 2
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:29:37pm |
The consumer science interest mags have all gone commie, so we shouldn't be suprised that SciAm covers this issue like it's an obituary.
Apparently, they don't know the rule about useful idiots.
[Link: www.halabja.org...]
Don't go to that link if you aren't prepared to face unspeakable horror.
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Endangered in MASS Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:31:46pm |
re: #60 ploome hineni
How many time have you "mowed her lawn"?
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lawhawk Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:31:55pm |
re: #50 Endangered in MASS
Well, I forgot Hizbullah. And then there are Israeli-Arab stringers, who are sympathetic to the cause of the terrorists.
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Alouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:33:18pm |
There is fauxtography (digital manipulation of images) and there is real photography of fake, staged scenes (Pallywood).
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:33:55pm |
re: #60 ploome hineni
..one of my neighbors was a playboy centerfold
and she had a cover also
lol
none of us are interested in what she was covered with...
/ducks
:-D
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Mister Ghost Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:33:58pm |
If it's a photo of Jimmy Carter saying something that makes sense, you know it's a fake.
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:34:03pm |
re: #39 newsjunkie_ky
I love my Country more than I hate McCain.
I have to keep repeating that mantra.
I'm going to write-in Ronald Reagan.
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:34:46pm |
Geraldine Ferraro is becoming a Maggie Thatcher in my book recently.
Ms. Ferraro is fearless in her denunciation of democrat fakery & thuggery and disingenuousness.
I love this feisty new Ferraro; am so glad to see people refuse to drink the rotten fake "unity" koolaid the party apparatchiks & nomenklatura used to push the Obama train over the finish line.
(Just using ol' soviet terms, same as the new democrats)
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Mister Ghost Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:35:04pm |
If it's pic of Obama in Iraq, you know it's a fake.
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:35:37pm |
re: #68 mean Gene
Breaking:
Rezko verdict scheduled for 3:45 p.m.
well..unless the jury was sequestered in Burma, I think we know what the verdict of this one's gonna be...
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:36:27pm |
re: #67 DesertSage
I'm going to write-in Ronald Reagan.
* * *
You're a self-styled SAGE, why would you spoil your ballot and thereby help the other team...that's just dumb and depressed, not helpful as Rummy would have said.
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Endangered in MASS Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:36:27pm |
re: #63 lawhawk
Righto. The Islamic dhimification of wire service relies on 5 things..no make that 7.
Let me start again....
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markx Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:36:50pm |
re: #1 jcm
Source is Reuters or AP?
You beat me to the post.
That is the #1 way.
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:37:27pm |
More news site checks
USA Today - Obama ( on politics page - Bush on front page)
BBC - Obama
NYT - bombed building
LA Times - drainage ditch
WaPo- Edwards, Hillary, Obama
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Shug Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:37:58pm |
re: #40 MandyManners
Boobs are products?
Try my product
-The video professor
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:39:22pm |
re: #74 markx
You beat me to the post.
That is the #1 way.
Just don't say it's the first way....
Stinky would deleted it.
;-)
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:40:16pm |
Neil Cavuto's Obamator guest is insane.
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:40:19pm |
re: #76 Shug
Try my product
-The video professor
he makes boobs now? Goodie!
are the first ones free, just pay S & H?
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:40:24pm |
re: #68 mean Gene
Breaking:
Rezko verdict scheduled for 3:45 p.m.
When Rezko leaves the court house...
Odds on his getting hit by a bus?
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:41:14pm |
The National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) has a Code of Ethics. They are supposed to abide by this code. Number Six states that photographers may not manipulate images so as to mislead the viewers. (Again, these are Press Photographers -- this doesn't apply, obviously, to artistic photographers -- artistic photographers with Playboy mag, Advertisers, etc, all use lots and lots of manipulation so as to sell a product, promote something, etc.)
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:41:32pm |
re: #75 Silhouette
More news site checks
USA Today - Obama ( on politics page - Bush on front page)
BBC - Obama
NYT - bombed building
LA Times - drainage ditch
WaPo- Edwards, Hillary, Obama
NYT - bombed building
LA Times - drainage ditch
Very descriptive of those organizations.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:42:07pm |
re: #68 mean Gene
Breaking:
Rezko verdict scheduled for 3:45 p.m.
So they finally figured out the last of the 24 counts then. They were only stuck on one of them for a while.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:44:13pm |
Is the Rezko verdict going to be announced at 3:45 Central time, or Eastern?
Also, will Fox be covering it?
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Shug Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:45:25pm |
re: #79 paxnhymn
the first boob is free. if you like it, you buy the second ( plus just pay the S & H )
go ahead.
try my product
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godfrey Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:45:39pm |
Speaking of accuracy, fake boobs feel like vinyl cushions.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:46:02pm |
In today's world identifying the actual photo as "real or fake" is only the beginning.
1 "real or fake"
3. Real or Fake
4. Real or Fake
5. Real or Fake
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:46:05pm |
re: #58 Silhouette
I haven't done any real study on it, but it seems to me that Obama has been the opening page photo on newsites 2-1 to Hillary during this campaign, and 30-1 to McCain.
But what's more, it seems he is very, very often photographed from below, looking up. With the camera at his waist level, he looks like a father figure to us. And why is he always photographed looking up? I'm not talking campaign photos either.
Some of the Obama photos really look like Soviet propaganda posters; the same "heroic" pose, same angle, same look in the face...
Same failed ideas.
Change? They tried that back in 1918 in Russia.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:46:14pm |
re: #85 Intrepid
Is the Rezko verdict going to be announced at 3:45 Central time, or Eastern?
Also, will Fox be covering it?
Central.
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:47:03pm |
Out of 12 sites: 1 McCain alone, 6 Obama alone
2 McCain total, 8 Obama total
Not making a point, yet. Just a snapshot in time.
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:48:37pm |
re: #89 WrathofG-d
I love number four and the explanation. That asshole has little or no knowledge of metallurgy as oxidization such as rust can occur within hours...
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astronmr20 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:48:54pm |
o/t;
Not sure if this has been discussed or posted yet, but it seems the kid killed by the tiger at the SF zoo was drunk and stoned
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kansas Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:49:22pm |
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seekeroftruth Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:49:42pm |
re: #75 Silhouette
That's interesting. I noticed the same thing during his speech this morning. He looked like he was looking above the audience with his chin up. It was a weird angle - I was wondering if it was him or the camera angle.
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psyop Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:49:50pm |
re: #81 J.S.
The National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) has a Code of Ethics. They are supposed to abide by this code. Number Six states that photographers may not manipulate images so as to mislead the viewers. (Again, these are Press Photographers -- this doesn't apply, obviously, to artistic photographers -- artistic photographers with Playboy mag, Advertisers, etc, all use lots and lots of manipulation so as to sell a product, promote something, etc.)
What about their editors?
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Alouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:49:51pm |
re: #81 J.S.
The National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) has a Code of Ethics. They are supposed to abide by this code. Number Six states that photographers may not manipulate images so as to mislead the viewers. (Again, these are Press Photographers -- this doesn't apply, obviously, to
artistic photographers -- artistic photographers with Playboy mag, Advertisers, etc, all use lots and lots of manipulation so as to sell a product, promote something, etc.)AP and Reuters
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:50:37pm |
re: #89 WrathofG-d
In today's world identifying the actual photo as "real or fake" is only the beginning.
1 "real or fake"
3. Real or Fake
4. Real or Fake
5. Real or Fake
Staged is whole other can-o-worms.
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offendi Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:51:33pm |
So Bill Clinton must be breathing a sigh of relief?
" See, Hillary, honey, those photos of me were photo shopped !
BTW- Todd Purdum may get sued. Gina Gershon's lawyer apparently asked for a retraction about Gina being a too-good " friend of Bill".
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:51:37pm |
re: #69 alegrias
now if she had this fight when she ran as v.p. she might have won.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:52:07pm |
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:52:49pm |
re: #95 astronmr20
o/t;
Not sure if this has been discussed or posted yet, but it seems the kid killed by the tiger at the SF zoo was drunk and stoned
I'd rather have been drunk and stoned when killed by a tiger that wasn't kept in its enclosure than otherwise.
I'm wondering why his physical and mental state even matters? He's not the one who doomed himself to death.
The SF Chronicle can spin all they want at the behest of the city, but the central fact remains that substandard containment caused somebody to die. That's their problem, and unfortunately it was his, too. I hope the law suit brings millions.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:52:56pm |
rezko guilty on some counts waiting to find out how many?
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:54:06pm |
re: #101 JCM
"Staged" violates Rule Number 2 of the NPPA's code of ethics...
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Shug Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:54:49pm |
Ray Nagin apparently sending hundreds of buses to Obama campaign HQ
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:55:15pm |
I'd really like for Dick Morris to shut up right now so we can get the scoop on the Rezko verdict.
Ok, Neil Cavuto heard me.
Guilty on six counts of mail fraud, so far. Verdicts still being read.
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Dianna Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:56:19pm |
re: #107 really grumpy big dog Johnson
Please note that no tiger had ever escaped before.
I'm not particularly sympathetic, though the dead kid seems to have been the only decent person involved.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:56:27pm |
re: #108 yochanan
rezko guilty on some counts waiting to find out how many?
I'm listening to Roe Conn (WLS 890) right now it's 16 of 24 apparently.
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offendi Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:56:36pm |
If Rezko faces time in a "tough" prison, will he "flip" on some of his "buddies"? Heh.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:57:32pm |
Now guilty on 16 counts.
He's facing serious jail time, unless he has something he can offer on Gov. Begoiavic (sp?) or Obama.
Heh.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:57:41pm |
re: #117 yochanan
so far rezko guilty on 16 counts
16 more reasons not to trust Obama.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:57:47pm |
the cruption was more connected to gov blago rezko was obama's fund raiser
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:58:21pm |
re: #107 really grumpy big dog Johnson
I'd rather have been drunk and stoned when killed by a tiger that wasn't kept in its enclosure than otherwise.
I'm wondering why his physical and mental state even matters? He's not the one who doomed himself to death.
The SF Chronicle can spin all they want at the behest of the city, but the central fact remains that substandard containment caused somebody to die. That's their problem, and unfortunately it was his, too. I hope the law suit brings millions.
The taunting of the cat doesn't count?
Agreed sub-standard containment is an issue. But the Cat was provoked. The city might have some grounds to contend the enclosure was adequate until the provocation occurred.
I would tend to put most of the burden on kid, under the influence, then provokes the cat.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:58:52pm |
re: #122 Shug
Well if he goes in in a couple months, and Obama becomes Pres, he could only serve a couple days.
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SusanL Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:58:57pm |
re: #114 Dianna
Neither am I, all reports I have seen have the "kids" taunting the tiger. I was always taught that every cage has a door and unless you locked it yourself, you should treat the animals like the door is open.
Never could stand people who pick on others, they are bullies no matter the victim.
S
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:58:59pm |
re: #118 mama winger
16 counts - not 6
They're still reading the verdicts, Mama - there might just be 24 guilties before it's done.
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Shug Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:08pm |
re: #125 zmdavid
Any chance of a pardon for Rezko?
He is more likely to be pardoned by George bush than BHO.
BHO throws people under the bus, he doesn't pardon them
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rawmuse Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:09pm |
re: #107 really grumpy big dog Johnson
Have a little pity on us SF homeowners who will ultimately pay the price for this mess. The tiger was provoked by these little punks. They were standing on the fence and chukking stones at it, for the love of pete. If the suit wins and the Zoo has to pay out millions, all it means is that the Zoo will close, my taxes will go up to pay for it, and these surviving punks will OD on crack in a week.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:17pm |
I wonder what would be the repercussions if Micheal Corleone had bought McCain's their house?
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:23pm |
re: #128 Intrepid
They're still reading the verdicts, Mama - there might just be 24 guilties before it's done.
Cool ! :)
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:42pm |
re: #122 Shug
Are they Fed. convictions or State? Can he stay out of jail until Jan. 20 on appeal?
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:59:43pm |
re: #110 J.S.
"Staged" violates Rule Number 2 of the NPPA's code of ethics...
Yep, just noting that staged is pre-photo manipulation and editing is post-photo manipulation. Both with the intent of altering the impact and message of the image.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:00:06pm |
re: #129 Shug
He is more likely to be pardoned by George bush than BHO.
BHO throws people under the bus, he doesn't pardon them
He hasn't had that power...yet.
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Russkilitlover Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:00:26pm |
re: #54 jcm
In playboy yes......
Of course I only read the articles.
/;-PI know a photog who does food pics for one of the food mags. Hours setting up a shot, and the tricks to make food look good, then hours of touch up. If you wonder why your dish never looks like the pic... it's because it's not possible. Fashion mags, skin mags, the ads nothing is "as shot."
Hubby has shot a lot of food photos for Lawrys and assorted other chain restaurants. The food you see on a menu is completely inedible. It's dyed, sprayed, fixed, preserved, lit, and then shot. The film was not fiddled with much, but the staging sure was!
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:00:47pm |
re: #131 Nevergiveup
I wonder what would be the repercussions if Micheal Corleone had bought McCain's their house?
Fredo would've been taken hunting by Cheney, instead of fishing.
/
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:01:16pm |
re: #134 zmdavid
Are they Fed. convictions or State? Can he stay out of jail until Jan. 20 on appeal?
Federal convictions. Blago is in deep shit.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:01:49pm |
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:01:52pm |
So let me get this straight:
Cubs +
Rezko --
Do I have this right?
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:01:56pm |
no reason for bush to pardon rezko NONE WHAT SO EVER he is a democrat crook.
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:02:47pm |
re: #113 Intrepid
I'd really like for Dick Morris to shut up right now so we can get the scoop on the Rezko verdict.
Ok, Neil Cavuto heard me.
Guilty on six counts of mail fraud, so far. Verdicts still being read.
Now taking bets in what paragraph, IF ANY, will Obama first be mentioned in the writeups about the conviction.
Compare and contrast to Libby's plamegate conviction stories that focused on the Cheney connection, with the VP mentioned in the headlines or the first sentence.
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:02:51pm |
re: #98 seekeroftruth
That's interesting. I noticed the same thing during his speech this morning. He looked like he was looking above the audience with his chin up. It was a weird angle - I was wondering if it was him or the camera angle.
* * *
It's iconography, idol worship by fauxtographers!:
"...Especially in the West, a system of attributes developed for identifying individual figures of saints by a standard appearance and symbolic objects held by them;
Other features include the aureola and halo, also found in Christian and Islamic art, and divine qualities and attributes represented
from [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:02:59pm |
re: #124 JCM
The taunting of the cat doesn't count?
Agreed sub-standard containment is an issue. But the Cat was provoked. The city might have some grounds to contend the enclosure was adequate until the provocation occurred.
I would tend to put most of the burden on kid, under the influence, then provokes the cat.
The only pertinent fact is substandard containment. Imagine if the tiger killed your little girl who was throwing a screaming fit at the tiger exhibit? There are no mitigating factors.
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:04pm |
re: #142 yochanan
no reason for bush to pardon rezko NONE WHAT SO EVER he is a democrat crook.
He might have some interesting information about a certain "community activist" though?
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:15pm |
re: #139 Honorary Yooper
Federal convictions. Blago is in deep shit.
blogo will be tossed under the bus
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:23pm |
re: #137 Russkilitlover
I really enjoyed a documentary I saw once where they needed a nice Thanksgiving turkey for a scene in a movie. They "browned" a frozen bird with a plumber's torch and PAM spray, then they sliced it carefully and cooked the meat inside the cut to look nice for the "carving". Meanwhile, the torch-browned turkey had been sprayed with polyurethane to make it appetizingly shiny.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:29pm |
So Obama picks JFK's daughter for his search group for VP?
Can you spell "PANDERING"?
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Bubblehead II Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:42pm |
Report: Palestinian Textbooks Portray Jews in Bad Light
With the usual AP swipe at Israel.
Mixed with anti-Semitic sentiments in the textbooks are genuine Palestinian complaints against Israel, including settlement building in areas Palestinians want for their future state, and the Israeli separation barrier, which swallows swathes of West Bank land. (and keeps the homocide bombers out)
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:55pm |
re: #107 really grumpy big dog Johnson
I'd rather have been drunk and stoned when killed by a tiger that wasn't kept in its enclosure than otherwise.
I'm wondering why his physical and mental state even matters? He's not the one who doomed himself to death.
The SF Chronicle can spin all they want at the behest of the city, but the central fact remains that substandard containment caused somebody to die. That's their problem, and unfortunately it was his, too. I hope the law suit brings millions.
It might explain why he was apparently taunting the animal, but the Zoo was totally negligent in putting that animal in that enclosure. The teen just paid a higher price than the people that used to stare at the apes (a direct challenge in the wild) at the San Diego Zoo and get poo flung at them. (Those apes got pretty good at hitting tourists, I saw a couple of direct facial hits during my visits.) The apes are now in much better enclosures and separated from the crowds by very thick glass panels.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:04:09pm |
re: #137 Russkilitlover
Hubby has shot a lot of food photos for Lawrys and assorted other chain restaurants. The food you see on a menu is completely inedible. It's dyed, sprayed, fixed, preserved, lit, and then shot. The film was not fiddled with much, but the staging sure was!
My friend tells of the stuff they use as stand ins to last under the lights. A lot of the stuff gets a coat of varnish. He told me of big fight with one client who wanted to use the real product in the photos. My friend finally said fine, but you won't like the pictures. He re-shot the whole thing his way when the client saw the pics.
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Ojoe Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:04:17pm |
re: #95 astronmr20
An obvious operation of natural selection. Darwin Award material.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:04:49pm |
Posted in the spinoff links as well:
Rezko found guilty on 16 charges
Tony Rezko — the high-flying developer and fast-food magnate who was once a major campaign fund-raiser for Gov. Blagojevich and Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama and one of the governor’s closest advisers — is now a convicted felon.
A federal jury in Chicago convicted Rezko this afternoon on 16 of 24 charges he faced in a political corruption trial that cast a harsh light on the Blagojevich administration.
GOTCHA SUCKA! BLAGO, YOU'RE NEXT!
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:05:26pm |
re: #149 Nevergiveup
So Obama picks JFK's daughter for his search group for VP?
Can you spell "PANDERING"?
She came out for him long ago; it's that whole disgusting "Kennedy-esque" thing.
He has written a LOT of IOUs, and they will be called. Soros hungers.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:05:27pm |
I understand Obama in his appearance before AIPAC came out in favor of a "contiguous" Palestinian State? Has the genius ever seen a map of the Middle East? Just asking!
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:06:24pm |
re: #158 J.S.
Can they ship Rezko back to Syria?
Why? I'd rather he rot in Marion.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:06:51pm |
re: #158 J.S.
Can they ship Rezko back to Syria?
Now boarding under the bus.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:07:04pm |
re: #143 Silhouette
Now taking bets in what paragraph, IF ANY, will Obama first be mentioned in the writeups about the conviction.
Compare and contrast to Libby's plamegate conviction stories that focused on the Cheney connection, with the VP mentioned in the headlines or the first sentence.
I say it will maybe get a paragraph at the end of the story, in smaller type than the rest of it.
If mentioned at all.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:07:26pm |
re: #156 OldLineTexan
She came out for him long ago; it's that whole disgusting "Kennedy-esque" thing.
He has written a LOT of IOUs, and they will be called. Soros hungers.
It should not be forgotten that the Current VP headed President Bush's search committee. Obama/Kennedy 08?
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:08:05pm |
re: #113 Intrepid
I'd really like for Dick Morris to shut up right now so we can get the scoop on the Rezko verdict.
Ok, Neil Cavuto heard me.
Guilty on six counts of mail fraud, so far. Verdicts still being read.
no traction here. Federal mail fraud is a catch-all...this'll be gone in days...too bad.
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offendi Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:08:30pm |
re: #131 Nevergiveup
I wonder what would be the repercussions if Micheal Corleone had bought McCain's their house?
How dare you ! Just because Barry the Messiah came from the reputed cesspool that is Chicago machine politics does not mean Barry " dipped his beak "or got a taste. No doubt Barry levitated over all this political mess, with the halo over his head still intact.
Waiting for him to turn water into wine at the democratic convention.
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:09:10pm |
re: #162 Nevergiveup
It should not be forgotten that the Current VP headed President Bush's search committee. Obama/Kennedy 08?
I wouldn't be surprised.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:09:43pm |
[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]
good coverage here.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:10:24pm |
Not to change the subject but I think Megyn Kelly looks better when she wears something with a little more color. However I am still in love with her. And if she puts on those librarian glasses I may have some have to lust in my heart a bit.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:10:26pm |
re: #161 Intrepid
The Sun-Times linky up there had him in the first sentence!
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:10:48pm |
re: #161 Intrepid
I say it will maybe get a paragraph at the end of the story, in smaller type than the rest of it.
If mentioned at all.
* * *
Karl Rove kept repeating it was Richard Armitage at the State Department that outed Valerie Pflame, but the press wanted to press the lie it was Cheney/Rove/Libby who did it.
Cowardly Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's number two, let the Administration suffer three years worth of lies, rather than admit he mentioned Valerie Pflame was silly Joe Wilson's wife, and the person who got her husband the silly assignment to go looking for yellow cake.
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llanite Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:10:58pm |
method #7: Check LGF to see if the experts here have produced an educated ruling.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:10:59pm |
re: #167 Nevergiveup
Not to change the subject but I think Megyn Kelly looks better when she wears something with a little more color. However I am still in love with her. And if she puts on those librarian glasses I may have some have to lust in my heart a bit.
OK, is she already holding the riding crop?
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:11:27pm |
Here's the breakdown from RezkoWatch:
Breakdown of Counts
* Guilty on 12 of 15 counts mail/wire fraud
* Not Guilty on 1 count attempted extortion
* Guilty on 2 of 6 counts corrupt solicitation
* Guilty on 2 counts money laundering
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:11:37pm |
re: #171 OldLineTexan
OK, is she already holding the riding crop?
Oh, my heart be still!
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alegrias Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:11:37pm |
re: #162 Nevergiveup
It should not be forgotten that the Current VP headed President Bush's search committee. Obama/Kennedy 08?
* * *
Camelot/Carter II
or
SPAMALOT
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Raven1 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:00pm |
Every time Dumbomba lies, his ears grow larger. Sure way to spot a liar. What do you mean, his ears are huge?
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:11pm |
re: #168 OldLineTexan
The Sun-Times linky up there had him in the first sentence!
You're kidding me! Woot! Get that Obama name associated with a convicted felon, since Rez used to be Obama's fund raiser.
Heh. Heh heh.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:18pm |
re: #159 Honorary Yooper
Aleppo, Syria is his home town...(then again, i guess the Syrians would just let him loose). also hear that there were a lot of ties (Rezko, Obama, etc.) with an Iraqi billionaire "businessman" in the UK...
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:32pm |
re: #172 Honorary Yooper
Here's the breakdown from RezkoWatch:
Breakdown of Counts
* Guilty on 12 of 15 counts mail/wire fraud
* Not Guilty on 1 count attempted extortion
* Guilty on 2 of 6 counts corrupt solicitation
* Guilty on 2 counts money laundering
So 17 is the lucky number? Anyone know a good bookie?
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Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:35pm |
1. Was it taken by "Palestinians"?
/
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Charles Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:12:40pm |
re: #25 zombie
Notice how, with all the innumerable examples of fauxtography by the left, the authors chose the one trivial example by Republicans (that Kos went ballistic about in 2004), "filling in" the audience in a photo used in a Bush ad with additional audience members. (Example #4.)
The fact that they chose that one photo convinces me the authors dwell in the leftosphere and know probably nothing at all about the 2006 Reuters/Lebanon photopalooza.
I can't really fault them for using the Bush rally photo - it was faked, after all. But the Beirut photo by Adnan Hajj is a much more significant example of fakery.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:14:02pm |
re: #169 alegrias
Armitage always reminded me of Uncle Fester on the Adams family or Peter Boyle's Frankenstein character on Young Doctor Frankenstein.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:15:22pm |
re: #182 J.S.
yikes...money laundering? wow.
Not a suprise. The Illinois Combine is la cosa nostra here.
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paxnhymn Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:15:55pm |
re: #182 J.S.
yikes...money laundering? wow.
yeah, now that's a good one. That'll buy him all the federal rectal sex he can handle...
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Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:15:59pm |
re: #38 mean Gene
Wow, Zombie, sounds like somebody is trying to appeal to your ego to trick you out of your safe place.
Glad to see you won't fall for flattery or cajoling.
Your hiding your identity is your strength.
I was meaning to ask zombie if s/he was tempted to say anything to the folks who put two of his/her photos on the pro-Israel display at the event in SF the other day.
"Hey, where did you get all those neat photos? Are those from that zombie website?"
I know that zombie is a disciplined soul, and said nothing, but I would be too weak to resist bringing up the subject. LOL.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:16:08pm |
Maybe this conviction of Rezko was what Hillary's been waiting for?
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Russkilitlover Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:16:22pm |
It's been fun, but now a 3 hour meeting beckons. Yessiree, we're really productive around here!
'bye
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:16:43pm |
re: #181 Intrepid
Armitage always reminded me of Uncle Fester on the Adams family or Peter Boyle's Frankenstein character on Young Doctor Frankenstein.
How dare you sully the reputation of an American Classic like 'Young Frankenstein" with a pig like Armitage! Peter Boyle is rolling over in his grave.
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Ringo the Gringo Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:16:52pm |
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:17:01pm |
re: #187 J.S.
Maybe this conviction of Rezko was what Hillary's been waiting for?
No idea, but I'm going to see if Drudge can get off his Obamism enough to cover it.
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theangryamerican2008 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:17:42pm |
Sweet,
How does this help me spot a Nigerian scammer in an online personals ad?
Hehh....
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:17:43pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
I don't notice anything, but then my head is in the toilet.
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imtoast Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:18:03pm |
This was written in February of this year but very interesting about Obama. It's from the Asia Times. [Link: www.atimes.com...]
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:18:26pm |
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:18:39pm |
Drudge has it, but it's in black and small print in the upper left.
C'mon man, it deserves a fucking siren light.
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George guy Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:19:43pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
This is a 'shop. I can tell by the pixels, and by having seen quite a few 'shops in my time.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:20:35pm |
Speaking of Trials....
The Seattle Jewish Federation Shooting trial jury appears hung.
Naveed Haq jury to declare itself still deadlocked
Jurors are still unable to agree whether Naveed Haq is guilty in the 2006 shooting at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle -- and a mistrial now appears increasingly likely as attorneys plan to meet with the judge Wednesday afternoon.The King County jury sent out word Wednesday morning that they remain deadlocked, as they indicated they were Monday, after another day and a half of struggling to reach consensus.
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Alouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:20:47pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
Yeah, I think they photoshopped that Sheik Mohammed guy's face on top of Rosie.
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:21:45pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
Possibly, but it could be real.
/
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BlueCanuck Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:22:21pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
If not it should be. :p
/off to find some brain bleach.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:22:21pm |
re: #202 JCM
Speaking of Trials....
The Seattle Jewish Federation Shooting trial jury appears hung.
They really should have had this trial in a place like, oh I don't know, lets say Alabama!
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:23:06pm |
re: #203 Alouette
Yeah, I think they photoshopped that Sheik Mohammed guy's face on top of Rosie.
Isn't it the other way around? Rosie's body on Sheik Mohammed face?
Geez, now I'm confused.
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Ringo the Gringo Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:23:49pm |
I'm just joking guys....
Every one knows that Rosie waxes her shoulders.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:23:54pm |
re: #202 JCM
These things amaze me. The guy was caught on camera, and by the police while in the Jewish Federation Building screaming "kill the Jews".
What could they be deadlocked on?
Maybe its whether the Jews deserved it, or if shooting Jews is still illegal.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:24:17pm |
re: #207 EC Marm
Isn't it the other way around? Rosie's body on Sheik Mohammed face?
Geez, now I'm confused.
Just think how confused Rosie's kids must get. Damn if I were their therapist, I could have retired years ago.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:24:19pm |
re: #172 Honorary Yooper
Here's the breakdown from RezkoWatch:
Breakdown of Counts
* Guilty on 12 of 15 counts mail/wire fraud
* Not Guilty on 1 count attempted extortion
* Guilty on 2 of 6 counts corrupt solicitation
* Guilty on 2 counts money laundering
HOW MUCH JAIL TIME
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:25:02pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
It looks like someone cast Rosie as Reverend Jim for a remake of Taxi.
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:25:31pm |
re: #209 WrathofG-d
Wasn't their an insanity plea involved? That always makes it a little more complicated.
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really grumpy big dog Johnson Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:25:36pm |
re: #202 JCM
Speaking of Trials....
The Seattle Jewish Federation Shooting trial jury appears hung.
Leave it to a Seattle jury to struggle with the guilt or innocence of a murderer caught at the scene of the crime.
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Ringo the Gringo Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:25:43pm |
re: #213 Killgore Trout
What's the LGF spy...did I miss something?
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snowcrash Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:26:17pm |
re: #213 Killgore Trout
Shows activity too, like when you post a link.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:26:23pm |
re: #209 WrathofG-d
These things amaze me. The guy was caught on camera, and by the police while in the Jewish Federation Building screaming "kill the Jews".
What could they be deadlocked on?
Maybe its whether the Jews deserved it, or if shooting Jews is still illegal.
The defense attorney has been selling the insanity defensive, it seems a few jurors are buying.
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:26:55pm |
re: #202 JCM
What possible question could there be? He clearly said he was a terrorist and he attacked them becausae they were Jewish.
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:27:31pm |
re: #221 JCM
The defense attorney has been selling the insanity defensive, it seems a few jurors are buying.
Not guilty by reason of Islamity
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:27:41pm |
re: #209 WrathofG-d
the guy is a crazoid...hence, you know, not criminally liable...a nut bag...(that's my guess anyway).
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:27:45pm |
re: #216 really grumpy big dog Johnson
Leave it to a Seattle jury to struggle with the guilt or innocence of a murderer caught at the scene of the crime.
I've been the first prospective juror tossed in two jury pools in Seattle.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:27:48pm |
re: #212 yochanan
HOW MUCH JAIL TIME
No idea, but I sure as hell hope he turns over Blago. Obama and Daley may be too much to hope for.
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eschew_obfuscation Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:02pm |
re: #190 Ringo the Gringo
Can someone please tell me if this is photoshopped?
It's a genuine photo of Sasquatch!
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Bubblehead II Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:02pm |
Danish editors face trial in Jordan
Eleven Danes have been summoned to appear before the Jordanian pubic prosecutor to answer charges of blasphemy and threatening the national peace. They include the cartoonist who drew one of the Mohammed cartoons and editors from 10 of the 17 newspapers that reprinted them.
The case is being brought under changes made to the Jordanian Justice Act in 2006.
The changes make it possible for Jordanian officials to prosecute crimes committed outside the country if it affected the people of Jordan by electronic means.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:12pm |
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:21pm |
re: #192 taxfreekiller
Of Some Note on Rezko:
Both hands of the two party evil money cult got covered in cash.
That is the whole of the problem.
THE CROOK GO TO THE POWER IN ILL. ALL THE POWER IS DONK.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:27pm |
re: #215 EC Marm
Yes that was part of the defense, and without knowing the actual facts of his "sanity" I shouldn't opine....but.....with the other types of trials like this going "hung" my antennae go up, and I'm very skeptical.
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:28:59pm |
re: #215 EC Marm
Wasn't their an insanity plea involved? That always makes it a little more complicated.
There was a huge effort by the defense to put insanity or a type of diminished capacity in front of the jury. I followed some of the trial but couldn't get into it that much.
And this Haq guy sure looked the part, as well.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:29:33pm |
re: #221 JCM
I know a couple other "insane" people that I guess should have used the insanity plea...while killing and intending to kill people.
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NJDhockeyfan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:31:04pm |
What do you make of this?
Jet at Augusta airport belongs to Muslim prince
Someone is traveling in style.
A large jet arrived at the Augusta State Airport Tuesday morning.
The magnificent Bombardier, with an olive green and scarlet banner on the tail, was a pleasant and unusual surprise at the airport, Maine Instrument Flight President Bill Perry said.
“It’s one of the larger models that’s landed here,” Perry said.
The jet, registered as LX-PAK, belongs to His Highness Prince Karim al-Hussayni Aga Khan, according to the Web site [Link: www.planepictures.net,...] which identifies the aircraft as having the same registration number as the jet at the airport.
The jet’s formal name is listed as the Aga-Khan Bombardier BD-700 Global Express.
Best known as the Aga Khan, the prince has served as the spiritual leader of several million Muslims worldwide since 1957, his Web site said.
Though Maine Instrument Flight did not confirm the identities or number of people on board, Perry said the visitors are “from overseas. Honestly, I don’t know why they’re here.”
Perry also did not know when the visitors were leaving.
The plane is registered as being based in France, where the prince, 71, currently resides.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:32:01pm |
re: #235 WrathofG-d
I know a couple other "insane" people that I guess should have used the insanity plea...while killing and intending to kill people.
The nut of the defense arguments.
Or the other, outlined by Haq's defense team, of a man who suffered through an abusive childhood and increasingly paranoid teenage and college years, loathed his short stature and Muslim heritage and whose body and mind were reeling from a dangerous regimen of prescription medications when he entered a manic state and heard God telling him to go on a mission.
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Render Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:32:28pm |
re: #202 JCM
Stranger still, the defense attorneys aren't claiming he's innocent either. They're pushing for an insanity plea.
Who is on that jury? CAIR staffers?
WHAT
GIVES,
R
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opnion Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:32:39pm |
re: #175 Raven1
Every time Dumbomba lies, his ears grow larger. Sure way to spot a liar. What do you mean, his ears are huge?
There ya go. Didn't you get the memo. Barry said that his ears are "off limits"
See he got teased as a kid & after the New World Order , he will not be teased again , or else.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:32:55pm |
re: #231 yochanan
THE CROOK GO TO THE POWER IN ILL. ALL THE POWER IS DONK.
It's member of both parties in Illinois. There's a reason why it's called the Combine.
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Ringo the Gringo Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:33:03pm |
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:35:08pm |
re: #238 Render
Stranger still, the defense attorneys aren't claiming he's innocent either. They're pushing for an insanity plea.
Who is on that jury? CAIR staffers?
WHAT
GIVES,
R
Claiming innocence would be tough, caught at the scene, murder weapon in hand. The only play the defense had was insanity, they caught a huge break when he judge tossed the confession.
CAIR Staff -- Seattle jury, 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:35:12pm |
re: #237 JCM
Are you sure that wasn't a description of Mahmood Achmadinejad?
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:36:45pm |
re: #235 WrathofG-d
I know a couple other "insane" people that I guess should have used the insanity plea...while killing and intending to kill people.
The big problem is that people carry around a mental health definition of insane/insanity and if they end up on a jury get confronted with the legal definition. Most intelligent folks can reconcile the two long enough to render a decision. But as we saw with the O.J. jury, getting intelligent people on a jury can be tough. In my opinion, insane people belong in mental health facilities. If they get well, then they serve the term in jail. Plus a few extra years.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:36:46pm |
INSANE AND GUILTY I can accept but lock um up in mental hosp.
insane and not quilty i can't accept esp in a murder case.
now if they were busted for running down a major street nakud as a j-bird would be different.
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:38:18pm |
re: #48 ploome hineni
.....just heard NPR characterize some blog comments about Obama and his questionable spport for Israel as 'vitriolic'
is that the word they use when describing how the rev Wright describs America or the way Farrakhan describes JEws?
I am beyond disgusted
Nor is it how they would describe Father Phlegm, I imagine.
I never ever ever listen to NPR. It makes me too upset.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:40:45pm |
re: #246 yochanan
yochanan, it doesn't work that way...the verdict always reads: "Not guilty by reason of insanity." (it goes back to John Locke -- the mentally ill -- when they start hallucinating -- cannot be held criminally liable -- it's deemed that during a psychotic state, they are incapable of differentiating right from wrong -- it's like they're under some other "force" (?) -- ever seen a psychotic during a hallucination phase or off the meds? they're "not there" -- they're totally "out of it."
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:40:46pm |
Sort of a slow deadish thread. Is there anyone around who can answer a technical question?
The screen on my daughter's laptop broke, so I ordered the appropriate part and I just finished changing it. The new screen works just fine - and everything was put back just like I found it, all screws in place, the bezel snapped in and screwed in place . . . everything in place nice and snug - but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Should I take the whole thing apart and try to find where these go or just forget about it?
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:42:16pm |
I look forward to hearing from many of you.....
Website Lets You Send a Post-Rapture E-Mail to Friends 'Left Behind'
If millions of Christians suddenly disappear from the face of the Earth as the opening act for Armageddon, Threat Level thinks most nonbelievers will be too busy freaking the hell out to check their e-mail. But if they do log in, now they can be treated to some post-Rapture needling from their missing friends and loved ones, courtesy of web startup YouveBeenLeftBehind.com.
For just $40 a year, believers can arrange for up to 62 people to get a final message exactly six days after the Rapture, that day when -- according to Christian end times dogma -- Christians will be swept up to heaven, while doubters are left behind to suffer seven years of Tribulation under a global government headed by the Antichrist.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:42:49pm |
re: #247 reine.de.tout
Nor is it how they would describe Father Phlegm, I imagine.
I never ever ever listen to NPR. It makes me too upset.
There is no Pravda in Izvestia, and no Izvestia in Pravda.
from Wiki:
"v Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy" (In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth).
It's all I can ever think of when I hear or consider the anti-American bile that is read oh-so-calmly on NPR. Like cobras on Prozac.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:42:49pm |
re: #246 yochanan
INSANE AND GUILTY I can accept but lock um up in mental hosp.
insane and not quilty i can't accept esp in a murder case.
now if they were busted for running down a major street nakud as a j-bird would be different.
I have long favored a Guilty but Insane type of ruling. Two questions; did the defendant commit the alleged acts, was the defendant competent to understand the consequence of his act.
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Salem Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:43:45pm |
Wow, that adds another layer of complexyness to the spy, doesn't it?
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:16pm |
re: #249 reine.de.tout
Sort of a slow deadish thread. Is there anyone around who can answer a technical question?
The screen on my daughter's laptop broke, so I ordered the appropriate part and I just finished changing it. The new screen works just fine - and everything was put back just like I found it, all screws in place, the bezel snapped in and screwed in place . . . everything in place nice and snug - but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Should I take the whole thing apart and try to find where these go or just forget about it?
If they're the screws that hold the inverter board in place, you really need them.
PLEASE be careful with the inverter board - lethal jolts live in those.
/rebuilt hundreds of portables in the line of duty as a test engineer
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:17pm |
re: #249 reine.de.tout
Sort of a slow deadish thread. Is there anyone around who can answer a technical question?
The screen on my daughter's laptop broke, so I ordered the appropriate part and I just finished changing it. The new screen works just fine - and everything was put back just like I found it, all screws in place, the bezel snapped in and screwed in place . . . everything in place nice and snug - but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Should I take the whole thing apart and try to find where these go or just forget about it?
Is there any rattles or other issues? I wouldn't be too worried.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:22pm |
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:39pm |
re: #250 goddessoftheclassroom
Good evening, :Lizards.
Evenin', Goddess! How are things in the "of the Classroom" household today?
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:58pm |
re: #249 reine.de.tout
Sort of a slow deadish thread. Is there anyone around who can answer a technical question?
The screen on my daughter's laptop broke, so I ordered the appropriate part and I just finished changing it. The new screen works just fine - and everything was put back just like I found it, all screws in place, the bezel snapped in and screwed in place . . . everything in place nice and snug - but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Should I take the whole thing apart and try to find where these go or just forget about it?
Do the instructions tell you how many screws to use?
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:45:35pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
I look forward to hearing from many of you.....
Website Lets You Send a Post-Rapture E-Mail to Friends 'Left Behind'
LOL!
According to your article, the site is real, not fake or a joke.
I loved this that was in the article you linked to, from the site owner:
We do have customers. The site has seen a great deal of traffic. I think that most of the traffic is by angry non-Christians checking it out and venting on various blogs. I have read quite a few of these and politely answered some of them. I have taken some of their negative comments as constructive criticism and ordered a few changes on the site.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:46:34pm |
re: #266 reine.de.tout
Those non-Christians are always angry.
/not e-mailing after Rapture, Death, or winning the Lottery. Sorry!
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:46:42pm |
re: #254 Nevergiveup
Good question. I know there is some variety of opinion about which side of things you guys end up on. I assume the guy's evangelical so he'll probably take your money but I can't guarantee you'll make it through the rapture.
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goddessoftheclassroom Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:47:42pm |
re: #262 Intrepid
Evenin', Goddess! How are things in the "of the Classroom" household today?
Fine, thanks.Even though school is over, I went in today (and I will tomorrow) because I'm moving to another class room (to be the goddess of...)
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:48:03pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
Surely this was mentioned in Revelations somehow?
"And the fourth part of the world's in-boxes was flooded", something like that.
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:48:28pm |
re: #256 ploome hineni
save the screws
call tech support...maybe, using the description of the screws they will be able to tel you if they are vital
The screws all look the same - little, bitty, teeny, tiny, I could hardly pick 'em up.
re: #259 JCM
Is there any rattles or other issues? I wouldn't be too worried.
No rattles, and everything works. This sounds like a good idea (the not worrying part)re: #264 MandyManners
Do the instructions tell you how many screws to use?
I think I'm supposed to use all of 'em. They didn't come with the new part - they were in the old part; I apparently missed a couple when I was putting the thing back together.
I think not worrying about it is the thing to do, since it works. I just don't want it to blow up.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:48:59pm |
re: #249 reine.de.tout
but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Are you sure they didn't fall out of your head?
:P
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:49:02pm |
re: #266 reine.de.tout
I thought the other funny quote was...
....I found two other sites that were offering a similar idea. One was run by and Atheist who mocked his customers.
Is it still funny even though it's not a parody? I say yes.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:49:44pm |
re: #274 Occasional Reader
I'll be so pissed if my post rapture emails get caught in my spam filter.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:50:14pm |
re: #278 Killgore Trout
This rapture thing...who gets left behind exactly?
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:50:32pm |
re: #278 Killgore Trout
I'll be so pissed if my post rapture emails get caught in my spam filter.
You think all the evangelicals' last message to us will be about how to increase our penis size?
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:09pm |
re: #279 WrathofG-d
This rapture thing...who gets left behind exactly?
You're asking the ATHEIST?
LOL!
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:10pm |
re: #258 OldLineTexan
If they're the screws that hold the inverter board in place, you really need them.
PLEASE be careful with the inverter board - lethal jolts live in those.
/rebuilt hundreds of portables in the line of duty as a test engineer
Crap! I had the whole thing open and was fooling around with everything while it was plugged in testing the new screen! I guess I'm lucky to still be alive.
The inverter board snapped in place and it is now snapped back in place. No clue what that is or what it does, but I now know what it looks like and where it is.
White tape all around the new screen with big letters "DO NOT TOUCH", and of course, I touched it. But no harm seems to have been done.
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Salem Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:11pm |
Aha! I rated a comment in a quicklink and it didn't appear in the spy!
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:47pm |
On topic since I'm coming in late:
When I was doing my "self portrait" for my web page I spent a huge amount of time trying to adjust the lighting, the position of the eyes, etc. I also tried to do my level best to minimize the "cloning" problems. The one thing I didn't do very well was adjust the hue -- it's not bad, but not great either. Moral is, fudging a picture convincingly is a hell of a lot of work, and damn near impossible to pull of.
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:49pm |
re: #277 Killgore Trout
I thought the other funny quote was...
Is it still funny even though it's not a parody? I say yes.
I say yes, too. And I'm a bona-fide Christian. But not goofy.
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snowcrash Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:51pm |
re: #278 Killgore Trout
For some reason I don't think the Catholics get taken up. Something about bearing witness that the Church survives. But I may be wrong..
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:51:51pm |
re: #252 OldLineTexan
It's all I can ever think of when I hear or consider the anti-American bile that is read oh-so-calmly on NPR. Like cobras on Prozac.
I don't listen to National Palestinian Radio, either.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:52:00pm |
re: #281 OldLineTexan
You're asking the ATHEIST?
LOL!
yea you have a Jew asking the Atheist about "the Rapture". Only on LGF.
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:52:14pm |
re: #276 Occasional Reader
Are you sure they didn't fall out of your head?
:P
LOL! prolly
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:52:24pm |
Wow. This just keeps getting better and better. Rod Blagojevich, Governor of Illinois, is supposed to hold a news conference shortly re: Rezko. I'll take a look at it one I get home from work.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:52:38pm |
re: #275 reine.de.tout
Most critical items in a laptop, ones that will break or short are secured in several place. It's highly unlikely a missing screw will be a problem. Stick 'em in a zip lock baggie and keep with the computer, next time you open it up you can put them back in.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:53:18pm |
re: #278 Killgore Trout
I'll be so pissed if my post rapture emails get caught in my spam filter.
LOL!
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:53:51pm |
re: #288 WrathofG-d
yea you have a Jew asking the Atheist about "the Rapture". Only on LGF.
ROFL!
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Silhouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:54:09pm |
I'm reminded of the joke that surgeons love to operate on engineers, because engineers understand if they have extra parts left over.
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:54:21pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
I look forward to hearing from many of you.....
Website Lets You Send a Post-Rapture E-Mail to Friends 'Left Behind'
Christians will be swept up to heaven, while doubters are left behind to suffer seven years of Tribulation under a global government headed by the Antichrist.
That's almost two complete terms of Obama!
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:55:06pm |
re: #296 song_and_dance_man
What is all this then?
Welcome, Inspector Snapper-Organs!
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:55:30pm |
re: #269 ploome hineni
touts
I don;t know nothing about computers
ignore my comment above
I know nothing either. Just found instructions on the internet and a $300 new screen was wayyyy cheaper than a new laptop
But now I've got these 2 screws . . .
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:00pm |
re: #297 Lucius Septimius
Welcome, Inspector Snapper-Organs!
I thought it was Inspector Lookout. Lookout of the Yard.
If I do, what will I see?
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:06pm |
re: #279 WrathofG-d
It depends on who you ask. If you're asking me we all do.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:32pm |
re: #280 Occasional Reader
You think all the evangelicals' last message to us will be about how to increase our penis size?
Oddly, that subject's never come up (pun intended) at my Evangelical church.
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:38pm |
re: #296 song_and_dance_man
What is all this then?
If you were from the Church Police, it would be
What's all this then, Amen?
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:41pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
Everything I've got to say, I will say while I'm still here :)
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:43pm |
re: #117 yochanan
so far rezko guilty on 16 counts
He will receive the "Messianic" pardon come January if O' wins.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:56:56pm |
re: #295 Kosh's Shadow
seven years of Tribulation
I've always maintained this was a mistranslation. Actually we're doomed to suffer seven years of Tribbleation.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:57:27pm |
re: #295 Kosh's Shadow
I'll be checking my email in November then.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:57:33pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
I guess I was asking what the Rapture was (supposed to be).
I like fiction.
/oh snap, just playing around Christians.
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:57:53pm |
re: #288 WrathofG-d
yea you have a Jew asking the Atheist about "the Rapture". Only on LGF.
ROFLMAO
better yet to ask for winning lotto numbers.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:58:07pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
It depends on who you ask. If you're asking me we all do.
Seriously? If you don't care for God now, why would you want to live with him then?
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:58:12pm |
re: #301 OldLineTexan
Oddly, that subject's never come up (pun intended) at my Evangelical church.
If and when it does, that will be a sure sign of the End Times.
Watch for it on the sign outside your church: "Today's Sermon: We should all send e-mails to our doomed friends about how to increase their penis size"
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:59:14pm |
re: #310 yochanan
ROFLMAO
better yet to ask for winning lotto numbers.
Damn, I've been buying the Saturday edition of the Sunday paper for lotto number, being going about it all wrong.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:59:24pm |
re: #313 Occasional Reader
If and when it does, that will be a sure sign of the End Times.
Watch for it on the sign outside your church: "Today's Sermon: We should all send e-mails to our doomed friends about how to increase their penis size"
ROFL!
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:59:53pm |
re: #311 mama winger
Seriously? If you don't care for God now, why would you want to live with him then?
I guess that's the same question that many married couples ask each other when they have to buy burial plots?
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:59:56pm |
re: #308 WrathofG-d
In some Christian churches, it is taught that in the end times, before the final battle , those who love God are taken up to heaven, and thus escape the doom that is to befall the earth, and those who reject God.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:00:17pm |
re: #316 Nevergiveup
I guess that's the same question that many married couples ask each other when they have to buy burial plots?
LOL! ha
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:00:24pm |
re: #311 mama winger
If there is a god I doubt he's a petty jerk. The rapture thing doesn't seem to be style.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:01:00pm |
re: #304 Oh no...Sand People!
He will receive the "Messianic" pardon come January if O' wins.
nahhh ,,, there's still room under the bus for "old freinds" of BHO
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Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:01:07pm |
re: #309 Lucius Septimius
Look up the Kray twins - the Piranha Brothers were based on real criminals.
I've seen grown men rip their own heads off rather than see Doug.
He used sarcasm.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:01:16pm |
re: #317 mama winger
Where do religious Jews, Muslims, and other G-d worshippers (but not Christians) go?
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:01:24pm |
re: #282 reine.de.tout
Crap! I had the whole thing open and was fooling around with everything while it was plugged in testing the new screen! I guess I'm lucky to still be alive.
The inverter board snapped in place and it is now snapped back in place. No clue what that is or what it does, but I now know what it looks like and where it is.
White tape all around the new screen with big letters "DO NOT TOUCH", and of course, I touched it. But no harm seems to have been done.
I should add that if the inverter board snaps in, you obviously got it right. Excellent work; I am amazed that you had the teeny-tiny screwdrivers. My company's products typically require very small "Torx" drivers, although I imagine some if not most of them are now built with mostly Phillips-type screws.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:01:51pm |
re: #295 Kosh's Shadow
That's almost two complete terms of Obama!
HA!
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:02:04pm |
re: #322 WrathofG-d
Where do religious Jews, Muslims, and other G-d worshippers (but not Christians) go?
easy ,,, Wal Mart
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:02:06pm |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
If there is a god I doubt he's a petty jerk. The rapture thing doesn't seem to be style.
IT's kind of like refusing an invitation to dinner - over and over and over again. And then calling the host a jerk when he figures you really mean it, and he sits down to eat without yout
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:02:19pm |
Heh, you guys crack me up. I know some people complain about the religious discussions here sometimes but most people seem to have fun with it. You guys took your funny pills this morning.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:03:04pm |
This is weird.
The Brazilians have been linking to me a lot lately, and today I got a link from Brazilian blogger "The Amazing Mr. X" who has on his site a Hillary banner AND a McCain banner AND a Jesus Christ banner. And he links to the Israel in the Gardens event and the Code Pink/Marines event too. But is he a fan of zombieitime? He says
Vejam aqui alguns ensaios de fotos do site cult Zombietime.
So I'm a "cult site" -- does he mean that as a compliment like a "cult movie" or that I'm leading an evil cult?
Well, at least I have the Hillary-McCain-"Cristo" vote.
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jamgarr Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:03:06pm |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
If there is a god I doubt he's a petty jerk. The rapture thing doesn't seem to be style.
The ol' "If he deserves worship he doesn't need it and if he needs it he doesn't deserve it."
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:03:53pm |
re: #322 WrathofG-d
Where do religious Jews, Muslims, and other G-d worshippers (but not Christians) go?
Well, what is sometimes taught is that those who reject God before thee Rapture, have those years of tribulation to change their hearts and minds. There is discussion on this . Personally I believe that observant Jews are included in God's Big Sweep.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:04:12pm |
re: #294 Silhouette
I'm reminded of the joke that surgeons love to operate on engineers, because engineers understand if they have extra parts left over.
Yeah, but we want to keep them in case we figure out where they're from.
/And we're always working on where they're from...
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:04:15pm |
re: #330 jamgarr
Sort of. I doubt he would care either way.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:04:21pm |
re: #328 Killgore Trout
Heh, you guys crack me up. I know some people complain about the religious discussions here sometimes but most people seem to have fun with it. You guys took your funny pills this morning.
actually, at my church, they've added those to the communion hosts!
(incentive for people to show up weekly)
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:04:25pm |
re: #323 OldLineTexan
I should add that if the inverter board snaps in, you obviously got it right. Excellent work; I am amazed that you had the teeny-tiny screwdrivers. My company's products typically require very small "Torx" drivers, although I imagine some if not most of them are now built with mostly Phillips-type screws.
Phillips, and my personal "junk" drawer has all sizes screwdrivers. I'm just happy I didn't have to buy a new laptop - read the instructions twice through, then started working and it was not difficult.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:20pm |
Jimmah doesn't think it is a good idea for the Messiah to pick Hilliary as VP?
Not sure how to comment on that.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:20pm |
re: #333 mama winger
Well that is where my Q came from. Religous Muslims and Jews don't "reject G-d" they just reject jesus.
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EC Marm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:34pm |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
If there is a god I doubt he's a petty jerk. The rapture thing doesn't seem to be style.
That's sort of why I "go off" on people that read stuff into Revelations. If you want to study ancient languages and translations from the era and discuss it with some facts behind you and in the context of the time; fine, go ahead. Otherwise, you're just gonna sound like a nut. (not you)
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:37pm |
I wouldn't count on a post-rapture e-mail service. Who's going to send the e-mails? Do they have an automated system that knows when the rapture is and sends their e-mails after a 6 day countdown? Maybe they just hire some sinners to work in their datacenter and kick it off after 6 days.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:43pm |
re: #338 Nevergiveup
Jimmah doesn't think
it is a good idea for the Messiah to pick Hilliary as VP?
Not sure how to comment on that.
fixed
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:05:46pm |
re: #324 buzzsawmonkey
Symbolically represented in the film Cocoon, where the baptized and reborn oldsters in their boat get raptured up into the flying saucer.
Ron Howard used to go to an Evangelical Free Church out in California. They teach the rapture. (Former Ev Free pastor's wife here)
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:06:04pm |
Whoops. We have yet another group of greenish-black scary clouds rolling in. Guess God didn't like my penis size jokes. Uh, only kidding, Big Guy!
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:07:19pm |
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:07:26pm |
re: #340 buzzsawmonkey
I haven't seen that movie in ages - I should rent it again. Thanks for jogging my memory.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:07:27pm |
re: #348 savage_nation
hi kids
You drive a truck, is that right?
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:07:42pm |
re: #347 savage_nation
best post ever! haha
Thanks Savage !
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rawmuse Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:07:56pm |
You guys remind me of the frequent scene in BC comics where God throws a lightning bolt. Zot!
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:08:19pm |
I have to reboot or sumpin. computer going blinky. mebbe it's the rapture. If I don't come back in a few minutes, check your emails.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:08:20pm |
re: #353 sattv4u2
Thanks Savage !
Don't I get a thanks for teeing that one up for ya?
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Dustyvet Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:08:22pm |
re: #34 DesertSage
If you see a photo of Barack H. Obama, and his ears are pinned back, it's probably fake.
We could only hope he gets his ears pinned back period...
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:08:41pm |
re: #322 WrathofG-d
Where do religious Jews, Muslims, and other G-d worshippers (but not Christians) go?
Hell, I suppose.
Dante was nice enough to put non-Christian-but-pious religious people in the first or second circle, where the torments were comparatively mild.
It is exactly this issue -- degrees of un-saved-ness, and degrees or culpability -- that inspired Dante to create a multi-layered Hell to begin with. Seemed unfair to put an unbaptized baby, or Plato, right in the same boiling pot with Judas and Caligula.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:08:46pm |
re: #340 buzzsawmonkey
I never knew about the Christian overtones of that movie before but it makes sense.
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:09:07pm |
re: #333 mama winger
Well, what is sometimes taught is that those who reject God before thee Rapture, have those years of tribulation to change their hearts and minds. There is discussion on this . Personally I believe that observant Jews are included in God's Big Sweep.
How 'bout a non observant Jew like myself?
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:09:11pm |
re: #355 savage_nation
I do. Been at it 19 years
I was talking with a friend of mine and we were wondering how high does gas have to go before you call it a day...long term. What is the word amongst the trucking community?
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:09:24pm |
re: #298 reine.de.tout
I agree with the advice of JCM@291. I have found myself in your position many times and re-opened the machine only to discover that the left-over screws were redundant. Lap-tops are designed to take rough treatment and makers design redundant securing methods for the components. I have built and repaired many machines over the years and my motto is: "if you don't have parts left over, you didn't do it right". LOL!
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:09:26pm |
re: #340 buzzsawmonkey
The Jew--played by the late Jack Gilford--refuses the rejuvenating baptism for his wife who is suffering from Alzheimer's, until after she dies. Then he attempts, unsuccessfully, to revive her, and opts to stay behind when the other reborn retirees leave.
I love that movie, but never saw any religious significance in it 'til your comment just now. Wow.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:09:31pm |
re: #357 Nevergiveup
Don't I get a thanks for teeing that one up for ya?
TEEING IT UP ? I'm the one that had to FIX it !
(thanks, btw)
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:10:31pm |
re: #363 DesertSage
How 'bout a non observant Jew like myself?
be careful crossing the street !
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:10:47pm |
re: #369 buzzsawmonkey
Steve Gutenberg Ackbar!
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goddessoftheclassroom Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:06pm |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
If there is a god I doubt he's a petty jerk. The rapture thing doesn't seem to be style.
Ok, Killgore Trout, you're entitled to your disbelief, but please don't insult Someone in whom you don't believe but many others of us do.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:07pm |
re: #369 buzzsawmonkey
The entire film is one extended allegory.
Crap I'm so shallow, I kept watching because I wanted to learn about alien sex.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:22pm |
re: #339 WrathofG-d
Well that is where my Q came from. Religous Muslims and Jews don't "reject G-d" they just reject jesus.
I'm not so sure "Allah" is God, based on what I've seen.
Maybe I will have to go with C.S. Lewis, and decide that bad acts in the name of God serve Stan, and good acts in the name of Stan serve God.
Not sure about that at all, however.
Oh, and Muslims don't reject Jesus. They co-opt him as a rasul, a Prophet that has spoken directly to God/Allah. Worse, IMO, and I believe it was a tactic by Mohammed to entice unwary and unwise Christians, the same as he tried to entice less-than-observant Jews.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:24pm |
re: #344 mama winger
Ron Howard used to go to an Evangelical Free Church out in California. They teach the rapture. (Former Ev Free pastor's wife here)
EFC is pretty main stream evangelical rapture theology. My Dad preached in one for awhile, he's ordained in both Conservative Baptist and EFC churches.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:35pm |
Say, you know, CNN has yet to say anything about Rezko being found guilty on 16 counts. Typically (for virtually any trial) CNN goes live and awaits the decision...they've always done this in the past even for really stupid trials...Now, suddenly, there's silence. A total black-out on the news about Rezko. I just can't figure it out...
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:41pm |
re: #370 sattv4u2
be careful crossing the street !
I don't wear a yarmulke when I cross the street, so how will they know?
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:47pm |
re: #365 GeeWiz
I agree with the advice of JCM@291. I have found myself in your position many times and re-opened the machine only to discover that the left-over screws were redundant. Lap-tops are designed to take rough treatment and makers design redundant securing methods for the components. I have built and repaired many machines over the years and my motto is: "if you don't have parts left over, you didn't do it right". LOL!
Thanks! I'll quit fretting now.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:52pm |
re: #369 buzzsawmonkey
The entire film is one extended allegory.
So the really hot alien chick who completely... uh... melds... with Steve G.; who's she supposed to be?
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:12:14pm |
re: #337 reine.de.tout
Phillips, and my personal "junk" drawer has all sizes screwdrivers. I'm just happy I didn't have to buy a new laptop - read the instructions twice through, then started working and it was not difficult.
Good on you. I am sending you several dozen carbon credits.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:12:38pm |
re: #376 savage_nation
We get daily updates from our controller. He told us to put off getting fuel till tomorrow. prices go down 7 cents at midnite and 15 the next day.
I paid $4.56 yesterday in Oklahoma. Texas is always 10 to 15 cents higher
You ever get east of the Mississippi? You seem to bounce between the northwest and midwest.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:12:51pm |
re: #360 zombie
Very interesting.
But I'm not sure Dante should put his value system on G-ds (supposed) plan for justice. Is this all actually in what-is-called-by-Christians "as The New Testiment" or is it silly interpretation?
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:12:56pm |
re: #378 DesertSage
I don't wear a yarmulke when I cross the street, so how will they know?
You kinda answered you own question? Know what I mean?
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:13:22pm |
re: #333 mama winger
Well, what is sometimes taught is that those who reject God before thee Rapture, have those years of tribulation to change their hearts and minds. There is discussion on this . Personally I believe that observant Jews are included in God's Big Sweep.
What is the biblical basis for these supposed "years of tribulation"?
Or are the people proposing it just making up the theology as they go along?
It's fine by me to start a new religion and make up one's own theology, but it seems odd to claim to be Bible-based and then just make stuff up. Which is it -- fundamentalism, or a creative New Age religion? Can't have it both ways.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:13:23pm |
re: #378 DesertSage
I don't wear a yarmulke when I cross the street, so how will they know?
I was talking about you not observing things ,, like automobiles ,,,,, open manhole covers ,,,
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:13:57pm |
re: #376 savage_nation
We get daily updates from our controller.
So that's how it works, huh?
You will get into heaven for sure...because you get daily updates.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:08pm |
re: #376 savage_nation
We get daily updates from our controller. He told us to put off getting fuel till tomorrow. prices go down 7 cents at midnite and 15 the next day.
I paid $4.56 yesterday in Oklahoma. Texas is always 10 to 15 cents higher
How high will it be till you can't drive, or til it is no longer profitable?
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:25pm |
here's a link some of you might like - lowest gas price look-up - enter your zip:
[Link: autos.msn.com...]
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Intrepid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:34pm |
re: #294 Silhouette
I'm reminded of the joke that surgeons love to operate on engineers, because engineers understand if they have extra parts left over.
As opposed to this poor man in Japan...
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:45pm |
re: #389 savage_nation
About once a month I cross the Mississippi when I run out to Chicago. We are supposed to be getting more freight to the Deep South in the next few weeks.
Lemme know if you're ever anywhere near Atlanta ,,,, the 1st 5 rounds will be on me
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:50pm |
There is a commercial featuring both-now get this- Pat Robinson and Sharpie Sharpton. About global warming. G-D help us!
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:14:50pm |
re: #340 buzzsawmonkey
The Jew--played by the late Jack Gilford--refuses the rejuvenating baptism for his wife who is suffering from Alzheimer's, until after she dies. Then he attempts, unsuccessfully, to revive her, and opts to stay behind when the other reborn retirees leave.
Jack Gilford was one of my all-time favorite actors.
He also did a Cracker-Jack ad that basically formed my personality as a toddler.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:15:07pm |
re: #374 OldLineTexan
That is exactly why he did it. A historical reading of Mohammad's "revelations" shows it to be so in reference to Jews, as he goes back and forth with them. etc.
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:15:32pm |
re: #395 sattv4u2
Lemme know if you're ever anywhere near Atlanta ,,,, the 1st 5 rounds will be on me
Same here -- I could use a night out. You've got my reg'lar email.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:15:42pm |
re: #375 JCM
EFC is pretty main stream evangelical rapture theology. My Dad preached in one for awhile, he's ordained in both Conservative Baptist and EFC churches.
Really? What area of the country? I might know him.
I was in the Free Church for 25 years or so. We were in chuches not too far from Trinity Seminary for awhile. Then we were out on Long Island. Then Wisconsin.
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:04pm |
re: #396 Nevergiveup
There is a commercial featuring both-now get this- Pat Robinson and Sharpie Sharpton. About global warming. G-D help us!
The group that runs it advertises on LGF.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:05pm |
re: #396 Nevergiveup
There is a commercial featuring both-now get this- Pat Robinson and Sharpie Sharpton. About global warming. G-D help us!
If Big Al would just shut his pie hole an hour a day, that would eliminate all that hot air!
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:07pm |
re: #380 Occasional Reader
So the really hot alien chick who completely... uh... melds... with Steve G.; who's she supposed to be?
That's the non-virgin Mary.
Try to not get the two confused.
Really.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:19pm |
re: #374 OldLineTexan
That's right -- they don't reject Jesus. I read this pamphlet once -- about what really happened to Jesus -- yeah -- according to Muslims, he got off the cross, and went to India...(where he later died.)
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:23pm |
re: #401 buzzsawmonkey
You must have loved A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, then.
That's a funny movie.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:26pm |
re: #386 zombie
What is the biblical basis for these supposed "years of tribulation"?
I told you guys already... it's Tribbleation. Tribbles will devour the third part of the world's quadro-triticale. (Which was invented in Roosiya.) That's what causes the famine. Duh.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:16:53pm |
re: #403 zmdavid
The group that runs it advertises on LGF.
Really. Who?
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:17:05pm |
re: #386 zombie
What is the biblical basis for these supposed "years of tribulation"?
Ask savage...he gets daily updates from his controller.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:17:22pm |
re: #383 WrathofG-d
Very interesting.
But I'm not sure Dante should put his value system on G-ds (supposed) plan for justice. Is this all actually in what-is-called-by-Christians "as The New Testiment" or is it silly interpretation?
No seven levels of hell in the New Testament, and that IS its name, like it or not. Dante's allegories are Dante's.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:17:27pm |
re: #386 zombie
What is the biblical basis for these supposed "years of tribulation"?
Or are the people proposing it just making up the theology as they go along?
No - using scriptural passages from the Book of Daniel primarily, along with some of the other prophets such as Malachi. Also the Book of Thessalonians and Revelations in the New Testament.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:06pm |
re: #407 J.S.
according to Muslims, he got off the cross
Ouch! How do you do that? Is it like taking off a Band-Aid... best to just do it with one quick pull?
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:24pm |
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:34pm |
re: #400 mama winger
Really? What area of the country? I might know him.
I was in the Free Church for 25 years or so. We were in chuches not too far from Trinity Seminary for awhile. Then we were out on Long Island. Then Wisconsin.
Idaho mostly. Grandad was the pastor of the First Baptist Church in Caldwell ID for years. Dad preached in Wilder ID, and Tumwater WA. Most of his time was a missionary, spent 10 years growing up in Iran.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:40pm |
re: #402 savage_nation
When the owner locks up the building and just says the hell with it.
If it hits $5.50 to $6.00 I think thats gonna be the end of my company and my career.
Then we can call it quits here in America. You are the blood of America's veins.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:43pm |
re: #407 J.S.
according to Muslims, he got off the cross, and went to India...
I'm pretty sure they stole that idea from one of the gnostic gospels. Judas or Mary, IIRC.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:18:48pm |
Olmert addressed AIPAC toady. Shit, they'll let anyone speak i guess.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:19:32pm |
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:19:35pm |
re: #419 JCM
Most of his time was a missionary, spent 10 years growing up in Iran.
Wow. What an experience, eh?
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:19:40pm |
re: #415 buzzsawmonkey
Good question; maybe one of the beings that couples with humans before the Flood.
Dang... I missed that. Sounds like a Babylon 5 ep.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:19:45pm |
re: #383 WrathofG-d
Very interesting.
But I'm not sure Dante should put his value system on G-ds (supposed) plan for justice. Is this all actually in what-is-called-by-Christians "as The New Testiment" or is it silly interpretation?
Oh, it's just Dante's personal interpretation, although it was for centuries accepted as near-gospel. I mean, he put his personal enemies and political rivals down in the 7th and 8th circle. It was a political document as well as a religious one.
Those 14th-century Italians were positively Machiavellian.
Heh.
But in the Christian gospels, there are no layers or circles of Hell. Just plain ol' Hell.
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:19:59pm |
Now we're getting a test....And I didn't study.
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:20:02pm |
re: #423 Charles
Test...
Shit -- and I haven't even studied.
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:20:36pm |
Here's the Ad I found by clicking through a "We Can Solve It" ad here.
[Link: www.wecansolveit.org...]
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:20:39pm |
re: #414 mama winger
re: #386 zombieWhat is the biblical basis for these supposed "years of tribulation"?
Or are the people proposing it just making up the theology as they go along?
No - using scriptural passages from the Book of Daniel primarily, along with some of the other prophets such as Malachi. Also the Book of Thessalonians and Revelations in the New Testament.
The interpretations of the text diverge wildly depending on denomination. Mama's correct on the Biblical sources.
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:20:50pm |
re: #429 DesertSage
beat me to the draw. Damned arthritis
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:20:52pm |
re: #428 buzzsawmonkey
I think you meant "today," but "toady" works for me.
I meant today, but your right toady actually is more appropriate I think?
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sparrowlake Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:01pm |
re: #363 DesertSage
How 'bout a non observant Jew like myself?
Pack yer fire extinguisher.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:07pm |
re: #430 Lucius Septimius
Lucius - I don't know if you saw my reply to you earlier. I didn't receive an email from you recently. Can you resend it?
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:10pm |
re: #429 DesertSage
Now we're getting a test....And I didn't study.
But, are you sitting in class in your undies?
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:20pm |
re: #401 buzzsawmonkey
You must have loved A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, then.
Who doesn't! One of the all-time classics.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:27pm |
re: #410 buzzsawmonkey
I take it you didn't read or don't remember my post about how that movie can actually be seen as satire as to the way our Country is presently responding to Terrorism.
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Alouette Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:29pm |
re: #322 WrathofG-d
Where do religious Jews, Muslims, and other G-d worshippers (but not Christians) go?
Disneyland! Heh.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:33pm |
re: #398 WrathofG-d
What's "A historical reading of Mohammad's..." I don't get that. Are there any "historical" things about Mo? I thought Mo was a composite character...(based on bandit stories.)
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:36pm |
re: #435 buzzsawmonkey
Yo, mama--#391 above has the full text of the song I quoted the chorus to, if you're interested.
I'm always interested! Thanks!
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:21:55pm |
re: #437 mama winger
Lucius - I don't know if you saw my reply to you earlier. I didn't receive an email from you recently. Can you resend it?
Roger wilco.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:22:11pm |
re: #407 J.S.
That's right -- they don't reject Jesus. I read this pamphlet once -- about what really happened to Jesus -- yeah -- according to Muslims, he got off the cross, and went to India...(where he later died.)
Those are some weird Muslims.
Standard Muslim cant is that Issa was replaced by Allah with another person and taken up. He did not die, and was not raised. Those are lies told by Christians, who have distorted the word of Allah as given to them by Issa and the other rasul. Issa will return with Mohammed.
Christ-in-India is the Book of Thomas thing, and it has been so long since I have studied it I would lie if I tried to describe it.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:22:17pm |
re: #441 Alouette
Disneyland! Heh.
Those are west coast jews. We on the east coast got to Disney World.
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DesertSage Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:23:01pm |
re: #438 MandyManners
But, are you sitting in class in your undies?
We're supposed to wear those too?
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:23:16pm |
re: #416 Occasional Reader
Ouch! How do you do that? Is it like taking off a Band-Aid... best to just do it with one quick pull?
Muslims have a pretty good answer for that one - Allah will do as He pleases.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:23:23pm |
re: #442 savage_nation
This nation is reaching a breaking point on this fuel situation and it's coming FAST. Have you seen the price of food slowly going up?
Look around. Take a close look at things around you.
Oh, I'm with you. I been socking food away for months now. But seriously...Trucks don't run...no food available to sock away. Can't just go outside and plant a box of cornflakes. It takes a good year of growing...how many people are prepared for that?
keee-ripes.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:23:27pm |
re: #435 buzzsawmonkey
Yo, mama--#391 above has the full text of the song I quoted the chorus to, if you're interested.
Buzz - how did you come across this song?
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goddessoftheclassroom Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:24:12pm |
re: #454 mama winger
Buzz - how did you come across this song?
I used to sing it at MYF (Methodist Youth Fellowship) meetings when I was a teenager.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:24:25pm |
re: #449 savage_nation
That really hot alien chick is hot cause her mom is Raquel Welch
Wow, I never knew that. I gotta go rent that movie
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:24:38pm |
re: #421 Killgore Trout
I'm pretty sure they stole that idea from one of the gnostic gospels. Judas or Mary, IIRC.
Thomas is one.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:25:11pm |
re: #425 mama winger
Wow. What an experience, eh?
It was, a great one. I would love to go back. Love the country and the people. One of the reasons I hate Rabbit Bait with such a passion, he sold a great people down the creek.
I have personal friends from Iran who have been martyred.
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:25:34pm |
re: #422 Nevergiveup
Olmert addressed AIPAC toady. Shit, they'll let anyone speak i guess.
He should speak as he is the PM of H'Medinat but it would have been nice if he was greated by people chanting "go home" or maybe "step down".
I firmly believe that once the PM of Israel realizes that he is no longer supported by the American Jewry he will reconsider his attitude.
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kevinmumaw Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:26:49pm |
OT/ SD approves nation's first oil refinery in 32 years.
Interesting quote from an opponent of the new refinery:
"I live out here. I don't need the pollution," said Jim Schroeder of McCook Lake, after voting against the rezoning.
Yes, McCook Lake. Heh.
Apologies in advance if already linked. Lots and Lots of comments to go through and I have homework to do.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:23pm |
re: #421 Killgore Trout
Really? Now that's interesting...Muslims do accept as "truth" and "fact" all that crazy literature which is found in Gnostic texts (such as J.C. kills a child, then brings the child back to life, etc. -- Muslims -- or should I say, Muslims are supposed to -- believe all of that gnostic stuff.).
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canadianally Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:27pm |
Mmmmm, algoriths. I too work with (and build) them at my place of employment, and cannot imagine a world without them. Most folks do not even realize that algorithms are so important in their daily lives. But I shall not digress into the deficiencies of today's education(al) sysyems on either side of the border. However, I will state that a few foreign powers have about 100 million more children who know what the word means.
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Nevergiveup Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:30pm |
re: #462 WrathofG-d
He should speak as he is the PM of H'Medinat but it would have been nice if he was greated by people chanting "go home" or maybe "step down".
I firmly believe that once the PM of Israel realizes that he is no longer supported by the American Jewry he will reconsider his attitude.
I was only being sarcastic, but I would hope he realizes his continuing as PM is undermining the State he professes to love and serve.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:32pm |
re: #458 OldLineTexan
Hmm, I wonder if that version of the story shows up in more than one of the gospels.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:42pm |
re: #442 savage_nation
This nation is reaching a breaking point on this fuel situation and it's coming FAST. Have you seen the price of food slowly going up?
Look around. Take a close look at things around you.
You guys in the industry can't absorbed the cost. It has to come out of the consumers pocket in higher prices.
The only question is when we throw Algore under the bus and start drilling and building refineries.
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reine.de.tout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:27:54pm |
re: #453 Oh no...Sand People!
...Trucks don't run...no food available to sock away. Can't just go outside and plant a box of cornflakes. It takes a good year of growing...how many people are prepared for that?
keee-ripes.
You're right about the no food available to sock away, and it happens quick. A couple of years ago, after Katrina . . . supply routes all fouled up into south La. -- 24-hour grocery stores were closing because they had nothing left to sell - I couldn't find a pound of sugar anywhere for several weeks (and how spoiled are we, anyhow, that not being able to find sugar drove me nuts?).
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yochanan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:06pm |
[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]
more on rezko.
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Occasional Reader Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:12pm |
re: #453 Oh no...Sand People!
We're not going to run out of food or fuel. Oil prices are dropping; farmers are tripping over themselves to plant new land (read Lileks today).
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:18pm |
re: #441 Alouette
We'll i'm convinced that if all Jews go to hell, before long it will look like Disneyland and all those in Heaven will be beggin to get in.
(and the Muslims will claim that hell was theirs to begin with and the the Jews are occupying it.)
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:29pm |
re: #466 J.S.
Really? Now that's interesting...Muslims do accept as "truth" and "fact" all that crazy literature which is found in Gnostic texts (such as J.C. kills a child, then brings the child back to life, etc. -- Muslims -- or should I say, Muslims are supposed to -- believe all of that gnostic stuff.).
Muslims rubbed shoulders with Gnostics, that much is true and apparent from some of their claims about Jesus/Issa.
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MandyManners Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:36pm |
re: #451 DesertSage
We're supposed to wear those too?
Well, I reckon you can do it nekkid.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:28:56pm |
re: #414 mama winger
Hmmm. OK. I see a LOT of "interpretation" going on, though.
So much is in the Bible, and so much of it vague, that one could interpret just about anything one wants into it, if that's the goal they have.
Still seems to me that they're making up the theology off the cuff to suit their modern non-fundamentalist beliefs, but claiming the mantle of fundamentalism for credibility.
The only people I see who follow the Old Testament truly and accurately are Orthodox Jews (ultra-orthodox, actually).
Do these Christian groups keep kosher? If not, I don't see how that can claim to be Bible-based. Leviticus is one hell of a book. Why do they think it's OK to obsess about certain passages in Daniel and yet utterly ignore the vast majority of Leviticus?
They seem to be picking and choosing which parts of the Bible suit their purpose.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:29:00pm |
re: #445 Lucius Septimius
Are you going to be around town the week of June 24-June 30? My family will be out of town and I could use a drinking and or/ dinner buddy some night
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WrathofG-d Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:29:32pm |
re: #468 Nevergiveup
I was only being sarcastic, but I would hope he realizes his continuing as PM is undermining the State he professes to love and serve.
never happen. He serves himself, not the State.
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:30:10pm |
re: #469 Killgore Trout
Hmm, I wonder if that version of the story shows up in more than one of the gospels.
It has been twenty-plus years since I discovered that the big table in the Religion section of the library at college was always empty, so I will have to claim ignorance due to age/brain cell attrition.
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George guy Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:30:36pm |
re: #475 OldLineTexan
Muslims rubbed shoulders with Gnostics, that much is true and apparent from some of their claims about Jesus/Issa.
According to some stories, Muhammad(police be upon him) in his youth had a tutor named Sergius who was some kind of heretical Christian.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:30:42pm |
re: #402 savage_nation
When the owner locks up the building and just says the hell with it.
If it hits $5.50 to $6.00 I think thats gonna be the end of my company and my career.
Diesel was $4.86 cents a gallon at the truck stop down next to I91 here in Vermont yesterday when I went by. Ten & fifteen cents more a gallon closer to town. Won't be long.
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:30:55pm |
re: #442 savage_nation
This nation is reaching a breaking point on this fuel situation and it's coming FAST. Have you seen the price of food slowly going up?
Look around. Take a close look at things around you.
Savage, I run a service company and the fuel bills are rising faster than my charges can. I use a fuel surcharge but several customers have already refused to pay them. This gas situation better settle down soon or I will lose customers and quite possibly a business I started 26 years ago. I feel your pain.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:31:07pm |
re: #466 J.S.
When Mo' invented Islam Just about the time Europeans were canonizing the bible and deciding what books would be included. The Christian stories Mo' would have known were probably very different than the ones we know today.
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kevinmumaw Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:31:39pm |
re: #474 WrathofG-d
And then the Jews will give them a piece of Hell which will rapidly return to its former hellish condition.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:32:29pm |
re: #461 savage_nation
And 10% of the corn supply is going to biodiesel, which uses MORE energy to produce the stuff than the energy you get out of it.
Pulling that much out of the food chain is insane and foolish.
And that does not begin to count the huge investment in fertilizer required to raise corn. Big article on the news this morning (probably AP, read it on the Wii) about farmers converting corn land to soybeans because the cost of fertilizer has gone up about 300%.
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:32:35pm |
re: #374 OldLineTexan
Maybe I will have to go with C.S. Lewis, and decide that bad acts in the name of God serve Stan, and good acts in the name of Stan serve God
Indeed, bad acts in the name of God are what he most deplores--this is what using his name in vain means.
As for the converse, I won't say definitively either, but, especially in cases where one has never heard of Him, I'd say so as well.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:33:20pm |
re: #485 Killgore Trout
When Mo' invented Islam Just about the time Europeans were canonizing the bible and deciding what books would be included. The Christian stories Mo' would have known were probably very different than the ones we know today.
Nope. Bible was canonized during the reign of Constantine in the mid 300 AD era. Mo didn't come around for another 300 years.
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kevinmumaw Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:33:58pm |
re: #483 galloping granny
Diesel was $4.86 cents a gallon at the truck stop down next to I91 here in Vermont yesterday when I went by. Ten & fifteen cents more a gallon closer to town. Won't be long.
Diesel has dropped .32/gallon here in central NC from $4.94 to $4.62 in about 10 days. Regular gasoline has remained steady, dropped 2 cents. I'm sure it will shoot up again soon.
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Lucius Septimius Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:35:05pm |
re: #478 sattv4u2
I should be around then -- I'm in blue, so send me a note.
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:35:10pm |
re: #447 OldLineTexan
I heard an Imam discussing this -- and there are a variety of "explanations" -- so some readings have it that Jesus was not actually crucified, that in his place was crucified a thief (?), and everyone confused the thief with Jesus; then, some say, he was crucified but was taken down from the cross by his sister (?) and "rescued"; etc. but I guess the agenda is to discount the belief that "he died and three days later rose from the dead" -- that Muslims won't/can't accept.
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sparrowlake Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:35:25pm |
re: #463 savage_nation
She looks better than her mom at her moms prime
You mean like when she had all those antibodies stuck to the front of her wet suit?
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Bubblehead II Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:35:34pm |
re: #429 DesertSage
Should have. This is the second one today. Wonder what he is up to know?
/looking over shoulder
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:36:20pm |
re: #491 savage_nation
I wish you luck but at my age (59) I have very few choices but to go down with the ship if it gets to that point.
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BBev Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:36:26pm |
re: #328 Killgore Trout
Heh, you guys crack me up. I know some people complain about the religious discussions here sometimes but most people seem to have fun with it. You guys took your funny pills this morning.
I got over myself I rather watch people having fun.
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:36:27pm |
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OldLineTexan Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:36:50pm |
re: #496 J.S.
I heard an Imam discussing this -- and there are a variety of "explanations" -- so some readings have it that Jesus was not actually crucified, that in his place was crucified a thief (?), and everyone confused the thief with Jesus; then, some say, he was crucified but was taken down from the cross by his sister (?) and "rescued"; etc. but I guess the agenda is to discount the belief that "he died and three days later rose from the dead" -- that Muslims won't/can't accept.
That's my take. Gotta go. Y'all enjoy.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:36:53pm |
re: #493 savage_nation
Holy shit. 300%?
Yup. I can go drag it up and get you the exact quote if you want. Farmers are saying that with the high price of corn and the super high cost to plant it, if it is a good year they will win big, but if the slightest thing goes wrong they will go bankrupt faster than you can say boo. So, lots of them are choosing not to plant corn this year. They are probably smart, judging by the weather here in Vermont. Pretty cold and rainy lately. I wouldn't want to be betting the farm on corn.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:37:48pm |
re: #494 kevinmumaw
Diesel has dropped .32/gallon here in central NC from $4.94 to $4.62 in about 10 days. Regular gasoline has remained steady, dropped 2 cents. I'm sure it will shoot up again soon.
Now we've had about the opposite here. Regular gas is down by about 25 cents a gallon from just a few days ago.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:38:25pm |
re: #492 galloping granny
But that was in Europe. Christian's Saudi Arabia probably didn't know or care what was going on in Europe. I'm pretty sure the gnostic gospels remained in use for quite a while after Constantine.
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Killgore Trout Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:39:49pm |
re: #502 BBev
Somebody always get bent out of shape. I think it's fun.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:41:37pm |
re: #507 Killgore Trout
But that was in Europe. Christian's Saudi Arabia probably didn't know or care what was going on in Europe. I'm pretty sure the gnostic gospels remained in use for quite a while after Constantine.
As far as I know, only in Ireland - the Irish church refused to submit to the "Roman" church for hundreds of years afterwards. Remember that in 300-500 AD Rome ruled Africa. Constantine's edict was universal throughout the Roman Empire
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:41:42pm |
re: #477 zombie
With out getting too deep into it.
This the Christian Perspective, hopefully it will give some insight into why we say things about the Bible we do.
As a Christian I believe the Bible is the Word of God given to men to record, He has preserved the the text as handed down.
As such several things follow:
The entire Bible is consistent and self supporting. Where it is not the issue is not with the Bible but with the reader.
The Bible is a closed book, it opens to genuine seekers of God. It cannot be read intellectually, it has to be read spiritually and seeking. The meaning will then be spiritually revealed.
There is a consistent theme and context to Bible, when this is understood spiritually, it much easier to make sense of the text.
The study of the Bible is important, "proving" the things in word by supporting passages with other passages.
Translations are important. I tend to study with an interlinear Bible, the original texts with word for word translations side by side, and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries. Language plays an important role in understanding. A good faithful translation of the Bible is critical to understanding.
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BBev Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:42:50pm |
re: #510 Killgore Trout
Somebody always get bent out of shape. I think it's fun.
You use to piss me off till I got to know you now I realize that if I can not make fun of myself how Can I make fun of someone else.
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DownRightMeanAmerican Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:43:24pm |
re: #485 Killgore Trout
When Mo' invented Islam Just about the time Europeans were canonizing the bible and deciding what books would be included. The Christian stories Mo' would have known were probably very different than the ones we know today.
The council of Nicea was 325 CE, Mo was born in 570 CE. The Qur’an written 100-200 after his death in 632 CE.
You are only off by a half century or so.
Beside the scroll of Isaiah dated to 120 BCE is identical to what we have today, being just one of thousands of documents we have that prove the Bible to be accurate.
The stories Mo plagiarized are form both Christian and Jewish heretics, not any mainstream beliefs.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:43:49pm |
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imtoast Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:44:38pm |
re: #339 WrathofG-d
Well that is where my Q came from. Religous Muslims and Jews don't "reject G-d" they just reject jesus.
allah is not God, so yes muslims reject the one true God.
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:45:00pm |
re: #477 zombie
Still seems to me that they're making up the theology off the cuff to suit their modern non-fundamentalist beliefs, but claiming the mantle of fundamentalism for credibility.
Seriously, not even the staunchest fundamentalist takes the entire Bible literally. It is all literally the word of God, they'd say, but there are parts that are unfullfilled prophecy, teaching in parable, ancient songs, advice, commandments (some culturally limited, some universal moral truth), and literal historical happenings recounted for a reason.
There is some debate over which parts are which, of course, and over the interpretation of the non-literal parts.
But believers aren't quite as stupid as you may think, really.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:45:26pm |
re: #516 imtoast
allah is not God, so yes muslims reject the one true God.
"allah" is the exact opposite of G_d
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kevinmumaw Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:45:37pm |
re: #506 galloping granny
I suppose different areas of the country react differently. Or at different rates anyway.
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sattv4u2 Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:47:03pm |
re: #518 galloping granny
"allah" is the exact opposite of G_d
Allah is DOG ?
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:47:44pm |
re: #507 Killgore Trout
But that was in Europe. Christian's Saudi Arabia probably didn't know or care what was going on in Europe. I'm pretty sure the gnostic gospels remained in use for quite a while after Constantine.
Based on anything in particular?
/just asking...
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:47:45pm |
#507 Killgore Trout
But that was in Europe. Christian's Saudi Arabia probably didn't know or care what was going on in Europe. I'm pretty sure the gnostic gospels remained in use for quite a while after Constantine.
You are forgetting that Christianity at that time encompassed Byzantium, and Northern Africa.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:49:08pm |
re: #519 kevinmumaw
I suppose different areas of the country react differently. Or at different rates anyway.
Regional differences I think. Our tourist season started June 1 and tourism is probably the single biggest business in all of New England. If the gas prices had remained high and kept going up there simply would not be any and that would absolutely devastate the economy here.
On the other hand, our trucking industry is primarily Canada to points south - captive audience. You want to bring your product into the US East Coast, then you have to buy diesel at the pump price, whatever it is.
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DownRightMeanAmerican Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:49:23pm |
re: #514 DownRightMeanAmerican
And before the council of Nicea 325 CE the Christian Church founding fathers (about 110 CE) quoted the New Testament some 32,000 times, so much so that the entire New testament can be complied just from these quotes accept for 7 verses.
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:51:34pm |
re: #508 savage_nation
The irony is that in the early 70's I had a CT class 2 license (I could drive anything but a tractor trailer) and drove a straight-bodied flatbed. I was about to go for the class 1 when I got married. The now ex talked me out of it since she didn't want me to be gone for extended periods. I went into the service business and after working 10 years for someone else, I started my own. Here's where the irony kicks in, no matter which path I chose the fuel situation became a problem.
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bellamags Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:51:58pm |
re: #488 savage_nation
its scary. i own a business and i am going to have to raise my prices soon. i will lose my customers and my ass.
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debutaunt Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:52:24pm |
re: #127 SusanL
Neither am I, all reports I have seen have the "kids" taunting the tiger. I was always taught that every cage has a door and unless you locked it yourself, you should treat the animals like the door is open.
Never could stand people who pick on others, they are bullies no matter the victim.
S
Excuse me, but Obama always says, uh, pardon me.
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imtoast Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:52:49pm |
re: #518 galloping granny
"allah" is the exact opposite of G_d
I second that!
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:53:08pm |
re: #512 JCM
Hmmmm. I'm not convinced.
Many many sections of the Bible are completely explicit. They do not require interpretation, nor is there any way to misunderstand them.
For example:
24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death..
Is that clear enough?
Thus, any true Christian seek seek to kill (or at least implement the death penalty) for cursing and blasphemy.
Yet, I don't see too many doing that.
Do YOU support the death penalty for blasphemy? If not, how can you justify your position, in light of the quote above?
And there are hundreds upon hundreds of other commandments in the Bible that are totally ignored by modern Christians.
To me, it seems like they're just making it all up as they go along to suit their own purposes and to "go with the flow" of social norms at the moment.
Their beliefs are not Bible-based at all, just cherry-picked aphorisms.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:53:33pm |
re: #523 savage_nation
Well, well, well, why dont we just all stop eating and die, that way we will have clean water. Who the FUCK is this idiot at the Environmental Defense Fund?
Oh yeah, I read every word. Including the bit about farmers scrambling for manure. Not so much. You can't put raw manure on fields at this late date in the year. When I was a kid the farmers here would all rush out the minute the first spring thaw hit and spread cow manure on the fields, then let it sit for several months before planting season, but you can't put raw manure other than horse manure on a field and plant immediately. Burns the plants. And notice that even large farming cooperatives are having trouble buying enough chemical fertilizer.
My ancestors used fish to fertilize corn, but there is a shortage of that too. And even then, corn is very hard on the soil. About 10 years of just corn and the land is spent.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:53:41pm |
re: #526 buzzsawmonkey
So, mama--I take it you liked the song. You didn't know it?
I think I heard it long long ago. I was just curious as to where you had come across it.
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wolfie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:55:08pm |
re: #522 mama winger
#507 Killgore Trout
You are forgetting that Christianity at that time encompassed Byzantium, and Northern Africa.
Yes. The vast majority of Christians were in the Eastern Empire.Asia and Africa, not Western Europe, which was something of a backwater.
BTW, the canonization of the 4 Gospels (and only those 4) and Acts dates from the 2nd century. The only questions worked out later concerned the epistles and Apocalypse.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:56:40pm |
re: #531 zombie
Christians believe that in Jesus, the Law found its fulfillment. This is what the New Testament teaches. In doing so, the Law gave way to Grace. The Law was given to show us how far from God we were, Jesus through His death and resurrection fulfilled the penalties of the Law, and now we live under the mercy of God.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:56:42pm |
re: #517 nikis-knight
Seriously, not even the staunchest fundamentalist takes the entire Bible literally. It is all literally the word of God, they'd say, but there are parts that are unfullfilled prophecy, teaching in parable, ancient songs, advice, commandments (some culturally limited, some universal moral truth), and literal historical happenings recounted for a reason.
There is some debate over which parts are which, of course, and over the interpretation of the non-literal parts.
But believers aren't quite as stupid as you may think, really.
And who decides which commandments are "culturally limited" and which are "universal moral truth"? Whoever makes those decisions is basically re-writing the Bible to their own specifications. And thus whoever appoints themselves as biblical interpreters are putting themselves (by their own definition) in the role of God.
I'm still not convinced.
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wolfie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:57:17pm |
re: #525 DownRightMeanAmerican
And before the council of Nicea 325 CE the Christian Church founding fathers (about 110 CE) quoted the New Testament some 32,000 times, so much so that the entire New testament can be complied just from these quotes accept for 7 verses.
And what is equally important is that they quoted from the 4 canonical gospels and from no others.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:57:24pm |
re: #536 buzzsawmonkey
It is my blessing and my curse to soak up lyrics like a sponge.
There should be a job doing that out there for you somewhere. I just don't know what it would be.
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:57:25pm |
re: #531 zombie
Hmmmm. I'm not convinced.
Many many sections of the Bible are completely explicit. They do not require interpretation, nor is there any way to misunderstand them.
For example:
Is that clear enough?
Thus, any true Christian seek seek to kill (or at least implement the death penalty) for cursing and blasphemy.
Yet, I don't see too many doing that.
Do YOU support the death penalty for blasphemy? If not, how can you justify your position, in light of the quote above?
And there are hundreds upon hundreds of other commandments in the Bible that are totally ignored by modern Christians.
To me, it seems like they're just making it all up as they go along to suit their own purposes and to "go with the flow" of social norms at the moment.
Their beliefs are not Bible-based at all, just cherry-picked aphorisms.
24:16 what, Zombie? There are a lot of 24:16s in the Bible. In this case you are referring specifically to Leviticus, which are the laws given to the Hebrews in the time of Moses. Christians of any era would read that with reference to the words of Christ - "he who is without sin cast the first stone."
And do note that King James is not by a long shot the most accurate translation. To get an accurate understanding you really should read at least 4 or 5 versions.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:58:43pm |
re: #473 Occasional Reader
We're not going to run out of food or fuel. Oil prices are dropping; farmers are tripping over themselves to plant new land (read Lileks today).
I don't think we will run out...it will become tight in supply or be pushed to a price point that there will be plenty of supply but not able to afford it. Even if my tinfoil hat is proved completely wrong...what harm can come from putting away food, fuel, and a means with which to protect it in case of an Obama rainy day?
That said, the price of gas has gone crazy high. I don't see much of an end in sight. Even if we threaten OPEC with technological advancements or local ANWR drilling, or other alternative means...they will drop the price incrementally, but nowhere NEAR where it should be. Food will keep going up as well. Then as soon as a peppered moth toots, it will cause the price to keep climbing.
A refinery just got approved. A start, but until the thing is built and functioning...I am going to continue socking away food and supplies. Even if everything 'appears' fine and copacetic I would STILL encourage everyone to prepare. Bunker, food, guns with which to cling to, religion with which to cling to...etc. My 4 cents.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:59:13pm |
re: #543 buzzsawmonkey
I would have made a great jingle writer, if the ad business still used jingles.
Maybe you could write jingles for Obamessiah's campaign.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:59:27pm |
re: #538 mama winger
Christians believe that in Jesus, the Law found its fulfillment. This is what the New Testament teaches. In doing so, the Law gave way to Grace. The Law was given to show us how far from God we were, Jesus through His death and resurrection fulfilled the penalties of the Law, and now we live under the mercy of God.
Then we should dispose of the Ten Commandments too, because those predate Jesus. Yet many Christian seem focused on the Ten Commandments. And other parts of the Old Testament that they want to remain in force.
It still seems to me they are picking and choosing which parts to pay attention to and which to ignore.
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JCM Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:00:05pm |
re: #531 zombie
In the Christian tradition the Old Testament (OT)was The Law, it was the Law for the Jews. For Christians, the death and resurrection of Christ fulfilled the The Law, his death paid the death penalty of the individual violator and violations. By accepting his sacrifice the harsh penalty has been paid.
There is still a spiritual reality to that verse. When I blaspheme, I separate my self from God, who is life. That separation is spiritual death, and I need to confess, repent, to restore the spiritual condition and connection.
Hope that helps.
I got to run and pick up the kids. We can pick it up later.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:00:17pm |
re: #547 zombie
Then we should dispose of the Ten Commandments too, because those predate Jesus. Yet many Christian seem focused on the Ten Commandments. And other parts of the Old Testament that they want to remain in force.
It still seems to me they are picking and choosing which parts to pay attention to and which to ignore.
I can see where you might think that. It really isn't so, however. :)
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:01:37pm |
re: #547 zombie
Then we should dispose of the Ten Commandments too, because those predate Jesus. Yet many Christian seem focused on the Ten Commandments. And other parts of the Old Testament that they want to remain in force.
It still seems to me they are picking and choosing which parts to pay attention to and which to ignore.
Not in the least. What Jesus taught was that it is impossible for any man, woman or child to be perfect enough in everything to fulfill the law. He did not overturn the Law and specifically said that he did not, he simply provided grace to cover imperfections.
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:02:00pm |
re: #531 zombie
Hmmmm. I'm not convinced.
Their beliefs are not Bible-based at all, just cherry-picked aphorisms.
But they aren't cherry picked. They are carefully discussed and prayed over, with each section poured over in the original languages to learn what was meant to the people it was given to, and what it means universally.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:02:18pm |
re: #542 galloping granny
24:16 what, Zombie? There are a lot of 24:16s in the Bible. In this case you are referring specifically to Leviticus, which are the laws given to the Hebrews in the time of Moses. Christians of any era would read that with reference to the words of Christ - "he who is without sin cast the first stone."
And do note that King James is not by a long shot the most accurate translation. To get an accurate understanding you really should read at least 4 or 5 versions.
I could easily post 25 different translations of the same passage and trhey would all read essentially the same.
If what you're saying is true, that all pre-Jesus Biblical proscriptions have been abrogated, then why even have the Old testament in the first place? It's out-of-date and irrelevant, is what I'm hearing.
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:02:55pm |
re: #533 savage_nation
I hear the hunker down part and comisirate. What really scares me the most is that all the candidates for POTUS have fallen for this Gorebull-shit as well as GWB. It does not bode well for guys in our situation. If the idiots that fall for this BS would only recognize that it will affect them in ways they don't comprehend. Watch your wallets people!
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galloping granny Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:03:34pm |
re: #555 zombie
I could easily post 25 different translations of the same passage and trhey would all read essentially the same.
If what you're saying is true, that all pre-Jesus Biblical proscriptions have been abrogated, then why even have the Old testament in the first place? It's out-of-date and irrelevant, is what I'm hearing.
Not at all - go see my post above.
Gotta go play Cooking Mama with the kiddo. Later.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:04:31pm |
re: #547 zombie
Then we should dispose of the Ten Commandments too, because those predate Jesus. Yet many Christian seem focused on the Ten Commandments. And other parts of the Old Testament that they want to remain in force.
It still seems to me they are picking and choosing which parts to pay attention to and which to ignore.
TECHNICALLY we could.
What are the two great commandments:
1. Love God
2. Love your Fellow Man
If you only follow those two commandments no one would do anything that would put anyone in the situation to even NEED the ten commandments.
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:05:27pm |
re: #551 savage_nation
Stay safe Savage, keep the shiney side up and the dirty side down.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:05:43pm |
re: #555 zombie
If what you're saying is true, that all pre-Jesus Biblical proscriptions have been abrogated, then why even have the Old testament in the first place? It's out-of-date and irrelevant, is what I'm hearing.
I may have put that badly. It's really not what I am trying to say at all. As a Christian, I try to live a life as consistent with the entire scriptures as I can, to the best of my understanding. I try never to cherry-pick, but to get the sense of the Word and its call upon my life. In a nutshell, the Bible is a guide whose purpose is to bring me into a life consistent with God's desires. I often fail , more often than I like, but that is my over-riding goal.
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:05:45pm |
re: #539 zombie
I was trying to explain, not convince.
Well, maybe just to at least convince you that you weren't the first to raise such issues...
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:05:47pm |
re: #549 JCM
In the Christian tradition the Old Testament (OT)was The Law, it was the Law for the Jews. For Christians, the death and resurrection of Christ fulfilled the The Law, his death paid the death penalty of the individual violator and violations. By accepting his sacrifice the harsh penalty has been paid.
There is still a spiritual reality to that verse. When I blaspheme, I separate my self from God, who is life. That separation is spiritual death, and I need to confess, repent, to restore the spiritual condition and connection.
Hope that helps.
Actually, no, it doesn't help.
What you're saying is that every single thing that came before Jesus is irrelevant. And yet the Old Testament is considered part of the Bible, just as much "scripture" as the New Testament.
Either jettison EVERYTHING that came before Jesus, or accept the ENTIRETY of the Old Testament. Otherwise, some non-divine human is doing the deciding, and picking and choosing what he wants to ignore and what he wants to enforce.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:08:39pm |
re: #562 zombie
What you're saying is that every single thing that came before Jesus is irrelevant.
Not at all. Not at all. Rather, that Jesus was the completion, the fulfillment, the example - of what life wholly in the will God would look like.
A seamless garment, between what God has commanded, and what it means to do it.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:09:05pm |
re: #554 nikis-knight
But they aren't cherry picked. They are carefully discussed and prayed over, with each section poured over in the original languages to learn what was meant to the people it was given to, and what it means universally.
Who is doing that discussing?
Humans are.
Thus, they are deciding what it means to them.
If a text is open to interpretation, then one can come up with ANY interpretation.
Hence, much of modern Christianity seems very New Age-y to me, yet it claims to be strictly scriptural.
Now you know why I'm an agnostic.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:10:44pm |
re: #565 zombie
Thus, they are deciding what it means to them.
If a text is open to interpretation, then one can come up with ANY interpretation.
How else would we process it? We are not robots, but thinking human beings. God gave us an intellect to use. When one is a student of Scripture, one looks for interrnal consistency within passages and gleans the truths therein.
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Salem Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:12:19pm |
When it comes to explaining inconsistencies in the Bible, a lot of Christians will suddenly remember an errand they need to run.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:14:47pm |
re: #567 Salem
When it comes to explaining inconsistencies in the Bible, a lot of Christians will suddenly remember an errand they need to run.
What inconsistency is there in God saying "Thou shalt not kill" in one instance, and then "Thou shalt utterly destroy" the next?
/ couldn't resist.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:14:50pm |
re: #558 Oh no...Sand People!
TECHNICALLY we could.
What are the two great commandments:
1. Love God
2. Love your Fellow ManIf you only follow those two commandments no one would do anything that would put anyone in the situation to even NEED the ten commandments.
What gives you the authority to limit it to just those two commandments?
Why even have a Bible to begin with, then?
Why isn't the entirety of the Bible:
1. Love God
2. Love your Fellow Man
THE END -- ?
It's not. There are thousands of pages of tiny type enumerating countless rules and laws and proscriptions and prohibitions.
Should we just toss those out?
Look, it'd be wonderful if you (and everyone) lived by your cherry-picked two commandments, but then why bother to call oneself Christian?
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:15:20pm |
re: #562 zombie
there is also the idea in the scriptures of a sort of moral evolution, ie, God gives people commands, but also concessions for the those that they aren't ready for.
Divorce is one such instance specified by Jesus.
Also, different rules wre required for the tribes of Israel to keep them seperate from their neighbors and keep the laws & other writings intact.
It's a good conversation, but I've got to go! (Have you considered asking a pastor or Rabbi if you are serious? Although I'm sure there are many lizards much more knowledgeable than I...)
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:17:28pm |
re: #565 zombie
If a text is open to interpretation, then one can come up with ANY interpretation.
Emphatically not! Interpretation, reasonable, anyway, doesn't equal "whatever I want" and a priest or pastor who tries that usually ends up in a "compound" drinking kool-aid!
If one looks to the whole of scriptures, that greatly limits the possible meaning of any one verse! Furtherso if one considers the natural world as another revelation. (Science!)
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nikis-knight Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:19:20pm |
re: #569 zombie
Why even have a Bible to begin with, then?
Why isn't the entirety of the Bible:
1. Love God
2. Love your Fellow ManTHE END -- ?
Are you familiar with the supreme court? Lots and lots of words to say what laws mean. It's a rough analogy, but you can see that even clear commands benefit from example, etc. And other parts of the Bible aren't commands, they function to explain God, give practiccal advice, etc.!
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:19:46pm |
re: #561 nikis-knight
I was trying to explain, not convince.
Well, maybe just to at least convince you that you weren't the first to raise such issues...
Yes, I know that it's been done before, that there are piles of books pointing out inconsistencies in the Bible. But I don't have time to read them! I'm just saying what occurs to me right now.
I've never seen a good response to any of the previously raised issues by other people, and I'm not seeing a good response here. Getting all touchy-feely and saying that one has good intentions is not the issue. Yes, I accept that people here have good intent. But there are some basic inconsistencies and hypocrisies with the theology that persist, at least in my perception of it.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:21:08pm |
re: #569 zombie
What gives you the authority to limit it to just those two commandments?
Actually, that is a quote from Jesus.
Matthew 22:36-40 (
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:23:04pm |
re: #577 buzzsawmonkey
It is written so that G-d's voice is heard speaking to the people as close intimates, rather than as a distant voice thundering from on high.
Just thought I'd mention that.
I love that.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:25:21pm |
re: #569 zombie
What gives you the authority to limit it to just those two commandments?
Why even have a Bible to begin with, then?
Why isn't the entirety of the Bible:
1. Love God
2. Love your Fellow ManTHE END -- ?
It's not. There are thousands of pages of tiny type enumerating countless rules and laws and proscriptions and prohibitions.
Should we just toss those out?
Look, it'd be wonderful if you (and everyone) lived by your cherry-picked two commandments, but then why bother to call oneself Christian?
***Warning*** LDS slant.
Think about the ten commandments / Decalogue:
Exodus 20: 2-17
2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.
1. God gave these rules to the children of Israel via Moses. IMHO, Moses was given the ORIGINAL LAW FIRST, but he saw that the Israelites weren't ready for it and he dashed the tablets to the ground. He then got what I presented above and gave them to the Israelites.
2. Jesus being the Son of God, then introduced the B-attitudes. It is a higher law in that by LOVING your neighbor, and LOVING god, ALL of the 'Can't do's' become NULL and VOID since you won't even be doing anything to come close to breaking those rules.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:26:05pm |
re: #571 buzzsawmonkey
The commandment usually wrongly translated as "Thou shalt not kill" is actually "Thou shalt not murder." Big difference.
Completely agree.
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rustynail Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:26:21pm |
re: #32 zombie
Zombie contributed regularly during Michelle Malkin's investigations into what she (and others) termed fauxtography. Try this link to look at some of the reporting she gathered/developed:
[Link: michellemalkin.com...]
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:27:17pm |
re: #563 buzzsawmonkey
Well then, shouldn't we be setting up a Biblical-based legal system to decide such matters? I could say and do the most blasphemous things imaginable, and there is absolutely no penalty in our modern society. I could worship Golden Calves, I could worship Satan, I could the worst words conceivable, I could throw darts at a picture of Jesus, I could do ANYTHING -- and in this secular society there are no rules against it.
But what of all the other Old Testament rules, of which there are thousands? What about the dietary laws? And so forth? Those are not interpretable -- if so, take it up with the world's rabbis.
How can someone who claims to lead a Biblical life NOT keep kosher? It's spelled out as explicitly as possible.
And to say, "Oh, we ignore those rules because we feel like doing so, we interpret that Jesus implied we didn't have to do it," only leads me to the conclusion that it's all humanly made-up, like a modern non-revealed spirituality.
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Salem Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:27:58pm |
Think of the millions upon millions that have died because of differing interpretations of the Bible. One big, bloody pile of corpses. Of course, we are to presume that some of them went to heaven.
So, y'know, it wasn't a total waste...
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:30:47pm |
re: #582 zombie
How can someone who claims to lead a Biblical life NOT keep kosher? It's spelled out as explicitly as possible.
The Book of Acts might be a good place for you to look. There are some passages there dealing with the discussion among the Apostles on this.
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Salem Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:33:25pm |
re: #584 Salem
It's because we've lost our way, zombie.
And good riddance...
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:34:01pm |
re: #566 mama winger
How else would we process it? We are not robots, but thinking human beings. God gave us an intellect to use. When one is a student of Scripture, one looks for interrnal consistency within passages and gleans the truths therein.
I am looking for internal consistency. And when I sdee that Jesus said
because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.
(25 other translations provided at the link for those that require them), it tells me that Jesus told us that the Mosaic and Old Testament laws were NOT abrogated, at least until the end of days, which (checks outside for the sun and the blue sky) haven't arrived yet.
Thus, to maintain consistency, we must follow what Jesus himself said, and continue following God's Laws as laid down in the Old Testament.
Period.
Anything else is human interpolation.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:34:22pm |
re: #567 Salem
When it comes to explaining inconsistencies in the Bible, a lot of Christians will suddenly remember an errand they need to run.
LOL!
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J.S. Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:34:31pm |
re: #582 zombie
As I laugh, well guess what? there are rabbinical courts...(for Modern Orthodox).
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DownRightMeanAmerican Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:34:57pm |
re: #582 zombie
Because we are saved by grace through faith not of works so that no man may boast.
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:35:30pm |
re: #588 zombie
You left the bold off the last part of the verse:
until everything has been accomplished.
Christians believe the penalty for transgressing the Law was accomplished on the Cross.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:35:35pm |
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:37:34pm |
re: #570 nikis-knight
(Have you considered asking a pastor or Rabbi if you are serious? Although I'm sure there are many lizards much more knowledgeable than I...)
Us agnostics don't have religious leaders, aside from the Great and Holy Ehrich Weiss.
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debutaunt Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:37:39pm |
re: #317 mama winger
In some Christian churches, it is taught that in the end times, before the final battle , those who love God are taken up to heaven, and thus escape the doom that is to befall the earth, and those who reject God.
I hope there won't be any of that lousy Rap music.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:40:20pm |
re: #576 mama winger
Actually, that is a quote from Jesus.
Matthew 22:36-40
If we follow Matthew 22:36-40 then we must also follow Matthew 5:18, right? Why is one quote from Jesus better than another?
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:41:04pm |
re: #588 zombie
Let's see.
Last time I checked:
1. Haven't laid down with my fellow man...biblically speaking.
2. Haven't laid down with animals.
3. Haven't had my mothers sister.
4. Haven't messed with the dead..
blah blah blah...
See, it's EASY!
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:41:16pm |
re: #597 zombie
If we follow Matthew 22:36-40 then we must also follow Matthew 5:18, right? Why is one quote from Jesus better than another?
Absolutely . They are not inconsistent. See my post 593.
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rustynail Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:43:06pm |
re: #206 Nevergiveup
I don't know about the trial, but maybe the crime should have been tried in Alabama. A large percentage of Alabamians carry concealed. Maybe the trial wouldn't have been necessary. He'd have been DRT!
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debutaunt Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:43:36pm |
re: #356 mama winger
I have to reboot or sumpin. computer going blinky. mebbe it's the rapture. If I don't come back in a few minutes, check your emails.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
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GeeWiz Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:44:41pm |
re: #528 bellamags
I know it won't ease your pain, but be assured you are not alone. It's called being a small business=forgotten on the policy front. Our wonderful, I use that term sarcastically, politicians are oft to forget that we create 75% of this nation's GDP but individually have a small voice which equals a small threat to their power base. Kind sucks, don't it?
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mama winger Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:48:36pm |
Zombie - I don't know if our conversation helps you in anyway. Probably not. I am sometimes a poor communicator of my faith. Anyway - I thank you for such a good conversation, and hope maybe one day we can go further. I have to leave for a bit now. See you later. :)
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:50:38pm |
re: #593 mama winger
Christians believe the penalty for transgressing the Law was accomplished on the Cross.
Then (back to the beginning of the circle) there is no need for the Old Testament, from what you're saying.
Believe in Jesus, and you are saved.
And if you violate God's laws, that's OK, Jesus took the punishment for you.
Why then have the laws?
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:54:45pm |
re: #598 Oh no...Sand People!
Let's see.
Last time I checked:
1. Haven't laid down with my fellow man...biblically speaking.
2. Haven't laid down with animals.
3. Haven't had my mothers sister.
4. Haven't messed with the dead..blah blah blah...
See, it's EASY!
Have you ever eaten ham or pork?
Have you ever experienced sexual attraction to a woman who was part of a couple (i.e. "coveted your neighbor's wife.")?
Have you ever performed any work or labor on Saturday (or Sunday, if that's your bag)?
Etc. etc. etc.?
When you look at ALL the rules of the Bible, it's not easy at all.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:57:34pm |
re: #604 mama winger
Zombie - I don't know if our conversation helps you in anyway. Probably not. I am sometimes a poor communicator of my faith. Anyway - I thank you for such a good conversation, and hope maybe one day we can go further. I have to leave for a bit now. See you later. :)
Ooops, I posted my comment #605 before seeing your comment. Sorry!
Look, I understand that you have good intentions and are most likely a good person, but to this moment I can't get past what I still see as egregious internal inconsistencies in Christian theology, that seems to morph and shape-shift to fit the situation and the specifics of the discussion at hand.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 4:58:15pm |
OK, luckily, I killed the thread, so now I can get back to work!
Toodle-oo, infidels!
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:12:23pm |
re: #605 zombie
Then (back to the beginning of the circle) there is no need for the Old Testament, from what you're saying.
Believe in Jesus, and you are saved.
And if you violate God's laws, that's OK, Jesus took the punishment for you.
Why then have the laws?
Since Jesus took the punishment and paid 'Justice's' price, he is the one who makes the laws/rules now.
Matthew 5: 21.
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid athe uttermost farthing.
27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Main Point:
Without Jesus all we have is unmerciful Justice. We are all done for. However, since Jesus lived the perfect life, atoned for our sins, died on the cross, regained his body through resurrection, all for and on behalf of US, it is now up to HIM and HIS rules...the great thing...he offers MERCY! Living rules does nothing in and of itself if you don't know why you are living them and to whom you are living them for. In fact if the penalty of breaking rules is death...we are all dead men/women.
His burden is easy. His yoke is light. A clean conscience is worth more than the world and he offers it. We are all fallen without him. Without him the world is a giant cesspool of moral relativity and an impossible competition to see who lives the rules the best. Don't get me wrong. Jesus has his requirements, but they are possible and it's amazing how things work when I try to be the best person I can.
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:14:07pm |
re: #562 zombie
Actually, no, it doesn't help.
What you're saying is that every single thing that came before Jesus is irrelevant. And yet the Old Testament is considered part of the Bible, just as much "scripture" as the New Testament.
Either jettison EVERYTHING that came before Jesus, or accept the ENTIRETY of the Old Testament. Otherwise, some non-divine human is doing the deciding, and picking and choosing what he wants to ignore and what he wants to enforce.
Back don't know where we are with this.
No it's not irrelevant, it is fulfilled.
Matt. 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
With Christ all of the requirements of the law are met, fulfilled. However that fulfillment is attainable, available only in Christ.
We are unable to meet the requirements of the law, we will fail trying to meet the law. To get to God, we must fulfill the law. I can't do it, no one can. That is a sense the point of the entire OT, we cannot meet the requirements of God, we are hopelessly doomed.
God provided a way, He became a man, lived a perfect life, and died for all sin, he then overcame death, sin and Satan and fulfilled The Law for all men.
Romans 7:
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.Romans 8:
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:14:50pm |
I wonder if zombie will convert if he/she gets a good answer.
It is also important to look at alternatives. A problem with atheism (for example) is that it leads to Peter Singer-land.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:15:01pm |
re: #609 buzzsawmonkey
The Torah/"Old Testament" is important to the New primarily because it provides Jesus' antecedents, not because Christians are bound by Torah law.
It still seems to me that there is a fundamental disconnect between the two, and one cannot abide by one testament and and also abide by the other.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews who strictly follow the Torah I have respect for, because their behavior and beliefs are internally consistent (even if one doesn't follow the same beliefs oneself). And if Christianity was just the New Testament, then I'd see it as consistent too. But to drag along the Old Testamednt into the new religion, and declare it to be the Word of God, and then dismiss it all as not particularly germane, just doesn't cut the mustard for me.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:16:19pm |
re: #613 zmdavid
I wonder if zombie will convert if he/she gets a good answer.
Not bloody likely!
It is also important to look at alternatives. A problem with atheism (for example) is that it leads to Peter Singer-land.
I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic. There is a HUGE difference.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:19:14pm |
re: #610 Oh no...Sand People!
Oh, and if it is all just a myth. I am still happy to be as good of a person in my own personal views of what is interpreted to be 'good' and associate with other people I associate as 'good'. Then after we die...NOTHING. VOID. NADA.
I personally want to believe there is life after this one.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:19:35pm |
re: #610 Oh no...Sand People!
Thanks. You just permanently uncoverted me.
I learned a lot from your comment. But perhaps not what you wish I learned.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:20:48pm |
re: #612 jcm
With Christ all of the requirements of the law are met, fulfilled. However that fulfillment is attainable, available only in Christ.
That's like the anti-baptism of my uncoversion.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:21:29pm |
re: #619 zombie
Thanks. You just permanently uncoverted me.
I learned a lot from your comment. But perhaps not what you wish I learned.
Glad I could help.
/
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:23:19pm |
re: #618 Oh no...Sand People!
Oh, and if it is all just a myth. I am still happy to be as good of a person in my own personal views of what is interpreted to be 'good' and associate with other people I associate as 'good'. Then after we die...NOTHING. VOID. NADA.
I personally want to believe there is life after this one.
Hmmm, now you seem to be agreeing with me!
A happy ending after all.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:27:53pm |
re: #621 zombie
That's like the anti-baptism of my uncoversion.
Let's see how open your mind is. You really want to check out the 'rabbit hole'?
Send me an email and I will mail you a copy. re: #624 zombie
Hmmm, now you seem to be agreeing with me!
A happy ending after all.
It's those who believe it a myth and use that as a license to be as 'bad as possible', that I am concerned about.
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:29:26pm |
re: #619 zombie
Thanks. You just permanently uncoverted me.
I learned a lot from your comment. But perhaps not what you wish I learned.
Are you just permanently unconverted to being a Mormon (Oh no...Sand People!'s religion)? Can the rest of us still give it a shot?
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:29:50pm |
re: #621 zombie
That's like the anti-baptism of my uncoversion.
LOL! If you got any complaints about the rules, don't talk to me. ;-)
I'm just muddling along day by day.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:31:56pm |
re: #625 Oh no...Sand People!
You may find this hard to believe, but I actually have Mormons in my family! So I know much more about it than you might imagine. I've already been down that rabbit hole!
However, that is a separate topic from this particular discussion, so we'll leave it aside.
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:32:05pm |
Oh well, I'm pretty sure zombie's ruled out all of Christianity, anyway.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:34:33pm |
re: #626 zmdavid
Are you just permanently unconverted to being a Mormon (Oh no...Sand People!'s religion)? Can the rest of us still give it a shot?
Be my guest -- give it a shot!
I believe in total freedom of religion -- people being Christians, Mormons, what-have-you is a-OK by me.
I personally cling to my self-awareness of my ignorance (i.e. agnosticism), however.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:35:58pm |
re: #628 zombie
I can believe it. Then read the book along with the O.T. and N.T., It does a Zombie good.
Then you can chat with our white shirt and tie brigade of PR automatons.
I love chatting about this stuff, but I got to go.
Later all.
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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:37:33pm |
re: #626 zmdavid
Are you just permanently unconverted to being a Mormon (Oh no...Sand People!'s religion)? Can the rest of us still give it a shot?
I can 'unconvert' with the best of em!
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jcm Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:41:09pm |
re: #630 zombie
Be my guest -- give it a shot!
I believe in total freedom of religion -- people being Christians, Mormons, what-have-you is a-OK by me.
I personally cling to my self-awareness of my ignorance (i.e. agnosticism), however.
I wouldn't call it ignorance. More like a healthy skepticism, "I ain't buying till I know!"
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zmdavid Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:46:14pm |
re: #630 zombie
I'm not really good at conversions, I think mama winger gave you the best answer - look at Acts they discussed what Old Testament rules should or should not be followed and why.
As a Catholic, I'm not so much hung up on scriptural consistency, but the specific words of Jesus are very important in the Church.
That's why there is no divorce in Catholicism, why we believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc. Jesus said so very specifically.
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George guy Wed, Jun 4, 2008 5:48:00pm |
re: #531 zombie
You have to understand, the Law, commonly referred to as the Ten Commandments, is on a somewhat different level than the various ordinances that begin in Exodus 21, evidenced by their respective formats. The 10 Commandments are simple, general, and do not prescribe any punishments. Only after the Law is given, are the following ordinances specifically said to be for the Israelites (20.22), and afterwards, a list of crimes and punishments to be handled by the Hebrews' justice system. The reason that the rest of the world is not required to apply this code is because God did not ordain it for anyone else. Again in Leviticus (1.2), the ordinances are specifically for the Israelites.
The reason blasphemy was a capital offense then is because, if you suspend your disbelief of the stories for a moment, God was a bit more active back then and even had a visible presence. If that kind of evidence were available, blasphemy might be considered a bit more than a difference of theological opinion, involving a certain amount of malignant mindblowing ignorance. Without that kind of present evidence, of course, most people these days can honestly say it's just a difference of opinion, so what happens to blasphemers these days is not a problem for humans to bother themselves with.
On top of that 1) the Law (not the ordinances) still applies to Christians, the reason the Old Testament is important is because 2) it provides background for the NT and the larger conflict between God and Satan. 3) Some of it is actual history, 4) Some of its prophecies are still open cases. Probably a few other reasons as well, but I can't be expected to think of everything
The question of why Christians are still expected to try to follow the Law even if Jesus suffered the punishment for all sins is a question of whether a law is still worth following if its transgressions are not punished. The reason is that in a just world it is simply fundamentally necessary to respect the lives, property, and contracts of our neighbors. Even if that world never arrives in our lifetimes, every time those principles are honored well is a time to have a quick peek of that perfect world, that some people might call Christ's kingdom, and I suppose that's worth it for its own sake.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some cartoons to draw, and I'm months out of practice.
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zombie Wed, Jun 4, 2008 6:02:15pm |
God was a bit more active back then and even had a visible presence
...
it provides background for the NT and the larger conflict between God and Satan.
That was my Confirmation.
Wow, I'm progressing into my new-found religion (fundamentalist agnosticism) quite rapidly!
Next thing you know, I'll be ordained!
Who wants to officiate?
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George guy Wed, Jun 4, 2008 6:50:11pm |
Didn't I just say that stuff in some context or another? What I am claiming as fact as far as you need to be concerned is that B follows from A, not necessarily that you have to accept A as fact. That is, if there were such a circumstance as God being physically visible in some way, that would make acts like blasphemy possibly a good bit less reasonable than what is definitely the case in the present where a great many theological positions are in this case fairly arguable.
Whatever. I hardly see the point in most of this myself, most of the time.
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TalkinKamel Wed, Jun 4, 2008 6:51:37pm |
re: #630 zombie
Me, I'm not gonna give it a shot at all.
Faith is a mysterious thing, and I believe it comes from G-d Himself. At any rate, if you're not ready to give up being agnostic, nothing I say is going to change your mind. Also. . .
If one does believe in total freedom of religion, then you are free not to believe---and others are free to believe whatever they like. Endless debating, and nattering back and forth about theology, the New Testament, the Old Testament, etc., usually ends up convincing neither side of anything. And I've come to the conclusion that a blog devoted to politics and current affairs really isn't a good place to debate theology.
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Dr. Shalit Wed, Jun 4, 2008 7:36:23pm |
re: #48 ploome hineni
"p-h" -
BHO either changed his position or LIED in front of AIPAC today, regarding "Terrorist Organization" status for the "Iranian Revolutionary Guard." BHO actually voted against it! Like "DUH!"
-S-
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Alberta Oil Peon Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:59:21pm |
re: #249 reine.de.tout
Sort of a slow deadish thread. Is there anyone around who can answer a technical question?
The screen on my daughter's laptop broke, so I ordered the appropriate part and I just finished changing it. The new screen works just fine - and everything was put back just like I found it, all screws in place, the bezel snapped in and screwed in place . . . everything in place nice and snug - but, I find I have 2 screws left over.
Should I take the whole thing apart and try to find where these go or just forget about it?
It's a little known fact, but tiny screws used in consumer products are actually genetically-engineered insects, especially bred to to have the same form factor as a tiny machine screw. Installed in the equipment, they go dormant for years, but remain alive.
When you disassemble a piece of equipment, and carefully put all the screws and other small parts into a container, such as a muffin tin, they are able to get together, and immediately find another and breed. Therefore, you wind up with more screws than you started with.
The solution is to use muffin tins with very deep impressions, so they cannot see over the rim, and to put only one screw in each compartment.
/just trying to be helpful
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:37:22pm |
re: #543 buzzsawmonkey
I would have made a great jingle writer, if the ad business still used jingles.
In essence, that is what Obama is doing.......you could start a "jingle war" by playing back his own game..... :)
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:45:24pm |
re: #564 mama winger
Ah, mama, I love your seamless garment allegory!
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:56:00pm |
re: #585 mama winger
Thank you. Oh, thank you. :) Or, rather, Him, for His hand on you. And your willingness. :)
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:02:28pm |
re: #593 mama winger
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) ......7 of 'em. Goodly number.
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Ma Sands Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:13:16pm |
re: #612 jcm
Thank you. I don't know what else to say. It's late; I had need to be bathed in all that truth. Thank you.
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nikis-knight Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:16:47am |
re: #575 zombie
Getting all touchy-feely and saying that one has good intentions is not the issue.
Eh? Who said anything of the sort?
/Sorry for the late reply on a dead thread, just wanted to see how the conversation progressed.
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nikis-knight Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:20:15am |
re: #583 Salem
Think of the millions upon millions that have died because of differing interpretations of the Bible. One big, bloody pile of corpses. Of course, we are to presume that some of them went to heaven.
So, y'know, it wasn't a total waste...
Source, please?
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zombie Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:46:58pm |
re: #648 nikis-knight
Source, please?
Thirty Years War
- uncounted millions dead, at least 1/3 of population of central Europe killed in war between Catholics and protestants.
Albigensian Crusade
- 1 million slaughtered in war between Catholics and Cathar Christians (who were exterminated)
The Pilgrimage of Grace
- Church of England vs. Catholics -- a bloody rebellion
Suppression of heresies in early Christianity
- Executions and internecene battles for centuries
...etc. etc.
The list could go on and on and on...this is just the tip of the iceberg. Christian vs. Christian has been of the major themes in the military history of the last 2,000 years.
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