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Zimbabwe Thugs Detain, Beat US and UK Diplomats

Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:51:46 am PDT

In days past, this might have provoked military action from either Britain or the US. Nowadays, nothing will happen except strongly-worded letters: US, British diplomats attacked in Zimbabwe.

HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) — U.S. and British diplomats were attacked Thursday as they tried to investigate political violence in Zimbabwe and a U.S. Embassy staffer was beaten, an embassy spokesman said.

U.S. Ambassador James McGee, who was not with the convoy, told CNN that Zimbabwean police and military officers and so-called war veterans, a group of often violent supporters of President Robert Mugabe, were responsible for what he called an “illegal action.”

“The war veterans threatened to burn the vehicles with my people inside unless they got out of the vehicles and accompanied the police to a station nearby,” McGee said, saying he was in touch with the group by mobile phone.

Five Americans, four Britons and three Zimbabweans were in the three-car convoy, he said.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Paul Engelstad said the group was still being held some six hours after being stopped at a roadblock just north of Harare.

A British government spokesman later said the British diplomats had been released unharmed. But Downing Street spokesman Michael Ellam did not discuss the status of the American diplomats.

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171 comments

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1 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:52:29am

This is, quite literally, an act of war.

2 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:52:34am

Time to give Mugabe the Manuel Noriega treatment.

3 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:52:37am

Oh good. This ain't a first for these 'thugs'.

4 NR Pax  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:53:12am

Tread carefully, Zimbabwe, lest you find yourself on the business end of a stinging rebuke.

5 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:53:45am

We need unconditional meetings with Mugabe, stat!

6 Shug  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:53:49am

the problem with sternly worded letters is that they violate the right brain mentality

what you need are aural-oral warnings

/rev wright

7 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:53:58am

In old-school diplomatic parlance, this would be tantamount to a declaration of war. The appropriate American reaction would be to close the U.S. Embassy immediately and muster the Navy. Alas for the good ol' days, when we'd fight back against petty thugs and murderers like Mugabe.

8 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:53:59am
9 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:54:09am

Thugs only respect authority. Wish we'd show some.

10 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:54:10am

Go on, tinpot dictators. Antagonizing the U.S. is always a brilliant move.

11 see bs  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:54:18am

Looks like the message of "Change" has already started!

12 Orbit Rain  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:54:22am

...yeah...ummm....time to step back, then throw some bombs back... otherwise we'll just get more of this behavior...What do our candidates have to say about this, I wonder...

13 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:55:10am

From Gunboat diplomacy to Loveboat diplomacy.

Have the diplomats apologized for making their attackers angry yet?

14 JohnnyReb  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:55:12am

I am honestly suprised. Why didn't they wait until next January to do this crap? They could have literally gotten away with murder if a certain US Senator was in the White House.

15 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:55:23am
16 Shug  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:55:45am

re: #2 Ward Cleaver

Time to give Mugabe the Manuel Noriega treatment.

I prefer the Mussolini treatment

17 MJ  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:56:24am

re: #1 Occasional Reader

This is, quite literally, an act of war.


Bush will do nothing.
What did he do when the Palestinians murdered Americans in Gaza?

18 razorbacker  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:56:25am

Old Bobby M. is trying to provoke an international incident with Whitey. His whole reason for being is to fight the white man. If he can rile up the people, maybe they'll forget that they've gone from a food exporter to starvation under one man's rule.

19 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:56:45am

They're coming...

Airborne? Marines?

No Obama and Rev. Jackson.

... the horror, the horror...

20 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:56:49am
21 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:56:58am

re: #5 Occasional Reader

We need unconditional meetings with Mugabe, stat!

Tough direct diplomacy!

22 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:57:02am

"This is not the Zimbabwe I know"
~BHO

23 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:57:05am

re: #16 Shug

I prefer the Mussolini treatment

I prefer the Gaddafi Kadaffi Qaddafi er- the Mommar treatment.

24 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:57:19am

re: #20 song_and_dance_man

Blast Van Halen music?

Send the band!

25 mean Gene  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:58:08am

Have they let the Americans go yet?
Unbelievable.

26 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:58:30am

re: #5 Occasional Reader

We need unconditional meetings with Mugabe, stat!


It's the dearth of "hard, principled diplomacy&trade" that causes these incidents.

27 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:58:34am

Casus Belli.
One JDAM or SEAL Team special delivery addressed to Mugabe coming up.....

Or should be.

28 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:58:35am

re: #16 Shug

I prefer the Mussolini treatment

Buy ten gallons of gas and you get a free swing at his hanging corpse!

29 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:59:12am

Come on President Bush- you're still the President. Show some balls and kick some ass while you still can.

30 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:59:20am

Mugabe and his thugs may have just given the US and UK all the reason they need to provide Tsvangirai with all the weapons and equipment needed to take Mugabe down, or in the alternative, to do that themselves in the form of a Marine Expeditionary Unit.

All the diplomats talking didn't help matters - only enabled Mugabe to hold on to power even after elections showed he lost (well, the parliamentary results that had to be massaged to ease the loss somewhat, but he never released the presidential results, because they would have shown him defeated completely and utterly, and that's even after rigging the vote).

31 Phocid  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:59:22am

Heart of Darkness. Conrad was right.

32 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:59:35am

re: #29 Sharmuta

Come on President Bush- you're still the President. Show some balls and kick some ass while you still can.

Amen. Screw the pundits.

33 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:59:43am

Obama will "impress him with his listening skills" and offer Mugabe some other options, offer him things.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

34 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:00:26am
35 MJ  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:00:50am

Here's the State Department comments from yesterday. Note that even the pacifist press knows the administration ( past and current) will do nothing:

QUESTION: (Inaudible) Tsvangirai’s safety while he’s in detention? I mean, previously, he was very badly beaten up --

MR. MCCORMACK: Yes, he was. And that’s part – that certainly is part of this. And it’s an excellent point. And that he should be released immediately unharmed, untouched. Because as you point out, there were – there was an incident in the past where he was badly beaten. And we would hope and call upon the Zimbabwean Government to create an atmosphere in Zimbabwe where those who have political views different than the government can speak out free from threat and intimidation and violence; sadly, that has not been the case. But we’re going to continue to speak out about it and try to focus the spotlight of the international system on Zimbabwe in the hopes that that will help spur some change and that it will also spur those with the greatest amount of leverage over the leadership in Zimbabwe to use that leverage to bring about a different atmosphere in Zimbabwe.

QUESTION: Sean, all of that is well and good. But for the past decade, you and your predecessors at this podium, as well as the secretaries of state, have been saying the same thing. And Mugabe – the situation has only gotten worse, and Mugabe has only retrenched and held on more tightly to his grip on power. When is enough enough? And when is – is it no longer just words and calls for the immediate neighbors – when is it time to go beyond that?

MR. MCCORMACK: Well, we’re – Matt, we are simply up against, at the moment, the hard facts of international politics. We – I would say we have done more than speak words. We have put in place tough sanctions against the leadership, against individuals, and targeted them in a way that will not, we hope, affect the Zimbabwean people in a negative way, but really try to put pressure on those people who hold the levers of power in Zimbabwe.

And I know – look --

QUESTION: But he --

MR. MCCORMACK: Do we wish – do we wish that the situation were different? Absolutely. But the fact of the matter is, when you are faced with situations like this, it’s a matter of politics....

36 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:00:59am

We're Americans! We don't have to take this shit for some two-bit punk!

37 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:01:01am

Historically the only effective way to deal with brownshirts (regardless of their race) is to shoot them on sight.

Unfortunately, the peace activists, claiming to be in possession of superior wisdom, will insist that we talk to them and submit to their will.

Assholes.

38 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:01:08am

re: #34 song_and_dance_man

They don't need the whole band - just David Lee Roth

"Wooooooow!"

/david lee

39 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:01:19am

re: #33 DistantThunder

Obama will "impress him with his listening skills"

Oooh... will he do the head-tilted-earnestly-but-thoughtfully thing? I love that.

40 elevenbravo1969  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:01:37am

OT

Re-posted from another thread:
Any Bay Area lizards know what happened to Melanie Morgan? Specifically, why she is no longer on KSFO w/ Lee Rodgers in the A.M.?

41 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:01:46am

re: #9 Sharmuta

Thugs only respect authoritystrength/force. Wish we'd show some.

My read on it....

42 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:02:01am

It was obviously a false flag operation to justify U$ intervention and loot Zimbabwe of its natural resources.

/

43 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:06am

re: #34 song_and_dance_man

They don't need the whole band - just David Lee Roth

Step one: Get the SeAl Team to chase Mugabe up to the roof of the presidental palace.

Step two: David Lee Roth suggests to him, "might as well JUMP!"

44 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:08am

Mugabe's a thug. Issue ultimatums and follow through on the consequences.

45 Vinegar Joe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:19am

Quick! Send Obama there to meet with Mugabe and everything will be hunky-dory!

46 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:19am

re: #36 Sharmuta

We're Americans! We don't have to take this shit for some two-bit punk!

I agree with the poster above who said we give this "two-bit punk" the Ghaddafi treatment. Call up the Marines!

47 chinesearithmetic  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:29am

Where's cowboy diplomacy when you need it, pilgrim?

48 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:39am

re: #42 Who Watches the Watchmen?

It was obviously a false flag operation to justify U$ intervention and loot Zimbabwe of its natural resources.

/

No War for Famine!
/

49 Egfrow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:03:57am

In days past this is an escalation towards an act of war.

50 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:09am

Ho hum. Another casus belli that will be ignored.

Evil doesn't respect weak, but we keep thinking it will.

51 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:21am

re: #43 Occasional Reader

Step one: Get the SeAl Team to chase Mugabe up to the roof of the presidental palace.

Step two: David Lee Roth suggests to him, "might as well JUMP!"

"Go ahead and juuuuump!"

52 Rednek  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:35am

This would be a good opportunity to take Mugabe out of power and end the nightmare. Of course that won't happen.

53 MJ  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:40am

re: #36 Sharmuta

We're Americans! We don't have to take this shit for some two-bit punk!

We took worse shit from the Iranians.

We took worse shit from Hizbollah when they blew up the Embassy and barracks.

We took worse shit from the Palestinians when the murdered American diplomats in Khartoum and Gaza.

54 paxnhymn  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:41am

re: #20 song_and_dance_man

Blast Van Halen music?

LOL! No one slept for two damn weeks! effing psyops!

55 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:47am

Get some reporter to ask Obama what he'd do.

56 mean Gene  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:58am

He just wants a war with USA so he can surrender and get the goodies.
He's heard that's how we treat those who lose to us.

57 Egfrow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:04:59am

re: #17 MJ

Bush will do nothing.
What did he do when the Palestinians murdered Americans in Gaza?

Will any of the current candidates really do anything either?

58 Clio  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:05:44am

One little problem with the various suggestions to use the Navy, the Marines, or the SEALS, or "gunboat diplomacy".

Zimbabwe is landlocked.

59 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:03am

re: #54 paxnhymn

LOL! No one slept for two damn weeks! effing psyops!

And they renamed the capitol, "David Lee Roth City".

/what, they didn't?

60 pat  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:12am

I wonder what we can do to apologize? Send them the food Burma rejected?

61 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:37am

re: #58 Clio

or the SEALS

SEALs have been known to be inserted by air, ya know.

62 Daisy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:40am

Score a victory for the Left. Civilization has - once again - been attacked without reprise.

63 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:43am

If we do nothing, every sh*tcan country will start taking potshots at our guys. The hyenas are laughing. They think the lion is down.

64 RightLogic  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:53am

I believe Mugabe is in Rome at the moment. Hmmm. . . .it's a long flight back to Harare. Maybe the USAF would be happy to provide "escort".

65 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:06:58am
66 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:07:10am

re: #58 Clio

One little problem with the various suggestions to use the Navy, the Marines, or the SEALS, or "gunboat diplomacy".

Zimbabwe is landlocked.

No problem for paratroopers.

67 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:07:36am

re: #56 mean Gene

He just wants a war with USA so he can surrender and get the goodies.
He's heard that's how we treat those who lose to us.

Yep, a free trip out on a C-17, and access to his Swiss bank accounts. Just have to find a country willing to take him.

/just like baby doc duvalier

68 Gjergj Skënderbeu  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:07:56am

So, the way I see it, in order for the Zimbabweans to get back at the South Africans who are ethnically cleansing their people there; they decide to attack American and British diplomats?

Logical.

69 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:07:58am

re: #66 MandyManners

No problem for paratroopers.

And JDAMs.

70 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:13am

re: #67 Ward Cleaver

Yep, a free trip out on a C-17, and access to his Swiss bank accounts. Just have to find a country willing to take him.

/just like baby doc duvalier

Didn't Idi Amin go to Saudi Arabia?

71 razorbacker  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:14am

re: #58 Clio

One little problem with the various suggestions to use the Navy, the Marines, or the SEALS, or "gunboat diplomacy".

Zimbabwe is landlocked.

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that reed. Mightly slender.

72 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:19am

re: #53 MJ

We took worse shit from the Iranians.

Albright apologized to them for making them invade our soil and kidnap us.

"I'm sorry your hurt your hand while punching me. I'll be better."

73 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:27am
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, we’re – Matt, we are simply up against, at the moment, the hard facts of international politics.

No kiddin'? That's what we pay you for.

74 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:27am

re: #36 Sharmuta

We're Americans! We don't have to take this shit for some two-bit punk!

That seems to be the fetish of our leaders....

75 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:44am

re: #58 Clio

One little problem with the various suggestions to use the Navy, the Marines, or the SEALS, or "gunboat diplomacy".

Zimbabwe is landlocked.

Yes, and that stopped the US from dealing with Afghanistan ... Being landlocked is not an issue if you have a base of operations next door or have an understanding with the neighboring regime to allow overflights.

76 bulwrk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:48am

Well we still walk softly but we seem to have misplaced our big stick.

77 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:51am

re: #58 Clio

One little problem with the various suggestions to use the Navy, the Marines, or the SEALS, or "gunboat diplomacy".

Zimbabwe is landlocked.

Step 1) dig a canal

Step 2) begin amphibous operations in Zimbabwe

78 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:53am

re: #44 godfrey

Mugabe's a thug. Issue ultimatums and follow through on the consequences.

Screw the ultimatums. Just do the follow through.

79 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:08:59am

re: #66 MandyManners

No problem for paratroopers.

Or cruise missiles.

80 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:24am

re: #46 thedopefishlives

I agree with the poster above who said we give this "two-bit punk" the Ghaddafi treatment. Call up the Marines!

LOL- that was me who invoked mommar.

81 onslow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:30am

Nothing will come of this. Mbeki has Mugabe's back.

82 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:35am

re: #61 Occasional Reader

SEALs have been known to be inserted by air, ya know.

Parachuting down in wet suits? That'd be cool.

/scare the shit outta the locals

83 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:44am

re: #40 elevenbravo1969

OT

Re-posted from another thread:
Any Bay Area lizards know what happened to Melanie Morgan? Specifically, why she is no longer on KSFO w/ Lee Rodgers in the A.M.?

Here is her website.

84 Daisy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:45am

How long before the hero Mugabe makes the cover of Trinity's Sunday bulletin?

85 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:48am
86 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:56am

re: #78 coquimbojoe

Screw the ultimatums. Just do the follow through.

Ultimatums are for civilized countries.

Follow through is all thugs understand or (more importantly) learn to respect.

87 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:03am

re: #78 coquimbojoe

I like ultimatums like, "Release the prisoners, or we will commence bombing in five minutes."

88 Ceemack  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:06am

The Marines should be touching down in Zimbabwe right about now.

Of course, Bush--labeled a "cowboy" by so many on the left--won't do a thing.

Until we clearly demonstrate that there are consequences for messing with Americans, thugs around the world will keep messing with Americans.

Call it the Carter Principle.

89 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:17am
90 paxnhymn  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:27am

re: #61 Occasional Reader

SEALs have been known to be inserted by air, ya know.


that's just plane damn dumb when we got the SF OR!

for shame!

91 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:43am

re: #77 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Step 1) dig a canal

Step 2) begin amphibous operations in Zimbabwe

Seals = sea, air, land. Seals made it to Afghanistan, and not by mini sub. If landlocked location causes an issue, the Rangers would be happy to oblige I am sure.

92 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:51am

re: #86 OldLineTexan

Ultimatums aren't for the thugs. They're for all the other people watching.

93 Daisy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:10:55am

re: #70 MandyManners

"Didn't Idi Amin go to Saudi Arabia?"

Yup. He was an honored guest.

94 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:11:17am

re: #55 godfrey

Get some reporter to ask Obama what he'd do.


And interrupt His waffle breakfast or violate the eight question rule? This is a coronation not an election.

95 Peacekeeper  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:11:43am

They should have opened the dialogue, met face to fist without preconditions ...

96 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:11:56am

By the way, how long until the left accuses the US of provoking this incident by meeting with the Zimbabwean opposition leaders? Anyone want to lay bets?

97 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:03am

re: #80 Sharmuta

LOL- that was me who invoked mommar.

GMTA, I guess. *laugh*

That's the thing about most African dictators: They talk big because they know they can get away with it. If we flexed our muscle at them, they'd piss themselves and go hide in a hole for the next decade or so. Too bad none of our leaders will actually go through with it.

98 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:22am

Isn't mugabe in Rome right now? Maybe his flight home could be....diverted.

99 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:30am

re: #79 OldLineTexan

Or cruise missiles.

B-2....
80 JDAMS

Inert test bombs, no big explosions. Look how close the hole is to dead center, the consider if that was a 500lb bomb.

100 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:33am

re: #92 godfrey

Ultimatums aren't for the thugs. They're for all the other people watching.

Unexplained explosions and exploded military equipment can be seen by others on CNN. Should be clear enough.

101 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:57am

re: #96 lawhawk

By the way, how long until the left accuses the US of provoking this incident by meeting with the Zimbabwean opposition leaders? Anyone want to lay bets?

No doubt SOMEONE will put that forward... but I think in general Mugabe is too crazy for even most of the Western left.

102 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:13:01am

re: #40 elevenbravo1969

OT

Re-posted from another thread:
Any Bay Area lizards know what happened to Melanie Morgan? Specifically, why she is no longer on KSFO w/ Lee Rodgers in the A.M.?

Search Melanie Morgan fired on Yahoo.

103 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:13:17am

Anyone see recently how African countries didn't want us to establish a military CENTCOM on their continent?

Because they are handling things so well on their own.

Mr. Thabo Mbeki of South Africa had to beg to shame Mugabe into releasing Mr. Transvirai (who may be the REAL winner of the relecent election in Zimbabwe) from police detention, after he returned to his own country, though he's been threatened for his life.

Liberals are content to watch & whine, as they did when Saddam gassed his own people.

Just don't ask for action.

104 mean Gene  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:13:29am

OT/
the ''French Spiderman" is climbing the Times building in NYC.
Live on TV.

105 Daisy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:14:00am

re: #76 bulwrk

Well we still walk softly but we seem to have misplaced our big stick.

I think the Saudis have it. Furthermore, I think we sold it to them.

106 Peacekeeper  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:14:01am

Mugabe will end up on a gibbet.

107 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:14:04am

re: #100 OldLineTexan

lol - I can be persuaded.

108 jaunte  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:14:09am

I wonder if the State Dept. tendency to 'go native' and sympathize more with the powers-that-be where the diplomats are posted came first, or if it's a reaction to the Executive not reacting strongly in these sorts of situations.

109 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:14:59am

re: #106 Peacekeeper

Mugabe will end up on a gibbet.

That's that stuff inside turkeys, right?

/

110 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:15:37am

re: #106 Peacekeeper

Mugabe will end up on a gibbet.

I hope so.

111 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:15:41am

Mugabe ought to choke on his milk-fed veal chop at the UN meetings on hunger & starvation in Rome, Italy.

Someone call PETA to intervene.

112 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:16:03am
113 Rednek  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:16:27am

Tacky and insensitive to say the least.

PORTLAND, OR – Police officers in Portland, Oregon, are still waiting for an apology from Barack Obama after campaign staffers of his recent rally in Portland, Oregon, setup porta potties directly on top of the Portland Police Memorial, which honors the agency’s 25 fallen police officers.

114 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:16:53am

re: #50 Silhouette

Ho hum. Another casus belli that will be ignored.

Evil doesn't respect weak, but we keep thinking it will.

Two words: "Blackhawk Down"

/WHEN will we learn?

115 Sacred Plants  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:16:55am

"We are the police - we´re always right even when we´re wrong! We´ve been programmed by our authorities to feel satisfaction from humiliating a caricature of you, and we can seriously mess up your affairs before anyone anove us can stop us! Our moms and dads are proud that we are nasty kids and we are it for a living! Since we are the law the rule of law is the rule of us! Now do as we say not as we do!"

116 Daisy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:16:59am

re: #104 mean Gene

OT/
the ''French Spiderman" is climbing the Times building in NYC.
Live on TV.

Oh good! Some silly things remain as constant as the thugs running thuggeries.

117 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:17:00am
118 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:17:21am

Pictures from Mugabe's mansion.

/If that were MY shack... I would throw all you lizards under the bus to keep it.

// ;)

119 jaunte  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:18:03am

re: #112 savage_nation

I used to think (the tendency) was driven by the retirement rewards/bribes, but it may have something to do with fear, too.

120 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:18:44am

How old is Mugabe 82, 83?....He'll be dead soon, and what he will leave behind is a country, which only 30 years ago had the potential to be Africa's first great modern nation, in total ruins....completely destroyed.

Invading Zimbabwe over this won't do any good. What we need to do is try to help Zimbabwe onto the right track after Mugabe has left this mortal coil...which hopefully will be soon.

121 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:19:42am
122 razorbacker  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:19:56am

I'm going to give this the 24 hour rule before jumping into Bush.

I don't know how much time would be required to load 'em up and get there, but I know it wouldn't be immediately.

And for all we know, he's calling Cheney right now saying, "Dick, heard about the fantastic bird hunting in Africa? Got yer passport?"

I ain't holding my breath, ya unnerstand. But maybe.

123 MJ  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:20:02am

re: #96 lawhawk

By the way, how long until the left accuses the US of provoking this incident by meeting with the Zimbabwean opposition leaders? Anyone want to lay bets?

Time Machine set to 2003:

"Some critics say the violence in Zimbabwe has mostly occurred between supporters and opponents of land redistribution. They also fear that the Bush administration, which has already signaled that it might intervene in war-torn Liberia, might use the letter from TransAfrica and Africa Action to suggest that prominent black Americans favor an American intervention in Zimbabwe.

Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Booker say they would vigorously oppose an American-led military intervention in Zimbabwe. TransAfrica also opposes the idea of sending American troops to Liberia, saying an African peacekeeping force financed by the American government would be preferable.

''I'm sympathetic to it,'' Mr. Walters said of the stance taken by TransAfrica and Africa Action. ''But this letter makes them sound like the guys who simply want to beat up on Mugabe just because he took land from some white people.''

Mark Fancher, who heads the international affairs unit of the National Conference of Black Lawyers, raised similar concerns. He said Mr. Mugabe's critics neglect to note that he still has support among some Zimbabweans, even though he has been widely accused of rigging last year's presidential election."

[Link: query.nytimes.com...]

124 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:21:03am

re: #8 taxfreekiller

fear global warming , it could snow you in in Utah today

[Link: www.noaa.gov...]

active weather alerts

DAMMIT! No more snow!

/last time we had snow in June was 2001, I think -- gee tanks, Algore

125 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:23:23am

re: #121 savage_nation

Have you noticed most evil men live for ever and ever?

Castro comes to mind.

126 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:23:36am

re: #104 mean Gene

OT/
the ''French Spiderman" is climbing the Times building in NYC.
Live on TV.

Let's hope he unfurls a giant "PINCHIE SUCKS" banner.

127 pat  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:23:37am

re: #103 alegrias

Anyone see recently how African countries didn't want us to establish a military CENTCOM on their continent?

Nigeria blocked it, likely under the tacit direction of the Arabs.
In Black Africa, Sub Saharan in diplomo-speak, the USA is easily the most respected Nation of all.

128 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:26:08am

re: #127 pat

* * *
Thanks for that Pat. Wish we were assisting Sub Saharans right now. They're washing up dead on the shores of Spain/Canary Islands after drowning trying to escape their own countries in search of opportunity.

129 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:29:15am
130 Sacred Plants  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:29:45am

re: #61 Occasional Reader

SEALs have been known to be inserted by air, ya know.

Insert air drone. Establish live broadcast. Continue negotiations.

131 CommonCents  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:30:15am

Mozambique has almost 180 degree border around Zimbabwe on the east. A wink, a nod, and a free shipment of wheat, we can be there in a week. We already have SF operating out of Djibouti in the horn, they are practically next door. The ship(s) that have launched Tomohawks into Somalia are on station too. Git 'er done!

132 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:32:17am

re: #131 CommonCents

Mozambique has almost 180 degree border around Zimbabwe on the east. A wink, a nod, and a free shipment of wheat, we can be there in a week. We already have SF operating out of Djibouti in the horn, they are practically next door. The ship(s) that have launched Tomohawks into Somalia are on station too. Git 'er done!


* * *
Great plan, from your mouth to the powers that be's ears!

Oh, and where are the now wealthy liberation theologists when you need them?

133 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:35:30am

re: #99 jcm

B-2....
80 JDAMS

Inert test bombs, no big explosions. Look how close the hole is to dead center, the consider if that was a 500lb bomb.

Very cool

134 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:38:43am

re: #133 Creeping Eruption

Very cool

I would put a recon team in to scope targets. Then drop one on Mugabe's ass. Get number two on the phone and ask "you going to play ball." Anything other that an quick affirmative, drop #2. Call number 3 and repeat.

Wouldn't have to drop number 4.

135 NYDirk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:41:58am

America Held Hostage: Day 1

136 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:42:46am

re: #134 jcm

I would put a recon team in to scope targets. Then drop one on Mugabe's ass. Get number two on the phone and ask "you going to play ball." Anything other that an quick affirmative, drop #2. Call number 3 and repeat.

Wouldn't have to drop number 4.

That would be playing by their rules, which is the only way. Too bad the US would never play in the dirty end of the field.

137 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:42:50am

What has our State Department Secretary said on this, or is she still stuck on stupid working the middle east faux peace program?

138 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:45:19am

The UN has held a World Food Summit in Rome. Mugabe is in Rome. And Mugabe (who's actually banned from entering Europe -- yet, Mugabe flew to Rome, since UN dictates trump the EU) then Mugabe told the conference that the food crisis and hunger in his country was all due to America.

139 justiceforall  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:48:43am

Here is where Charles and I agree. The U.S. attitude towards what is happening all over Africa is truly appalling. Thanks for posting this.

140 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:50:19am

Give Brits credit, they MIGHT revoke Mugabe's silly honorary "knighthood"! And they really mean it.

From June 3
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

141 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:52:43am

re: #139 justiceforall

Here is where Charles and I agree. The U.S. attitude towards what is happening all over Africa is truly appalling. Thanks for posting this.

* * *

Gaze,

It is leftist marxist totalitarians are doing this to their own people, not the US' attitude at fault.

142 NR Pax  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:53:37am

In an ideal world, the ambassador from Zimbabwe would be told to free our people within the hour or leave our country in small pieces.

I hope I find that ideal world someday.

143 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:54:52am

re: #139 justiceforall

Here is where Charles and I agree. The U.S. attitude towards what is happening all over Africa is truly appalling. Thanks for posting this.

I'll alert the media.

144 savage_nation[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:55:11am
145 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:56:14am

re: #136 Creeping Eruption

That would be playing by their rules, which is the only way. Too bad the US would never play in the dirty end of the field.

I'd play to win...
I'd demand respect....
You can either respect us for want we are, and believe.
Or you can respect what we can do to you if you piss us off.
Either way works.

146 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:58:05am

Who Needs Elections (in Zimbabwe)? It's Decided in Advance!

"....Zimbabwean Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga said Mugabe had been invited -- and that it is important for Zimbabwe to be represented. Mugabe attended a similar meeting in Rome in 2002.

"He is the current president of Zimbabwe and he will be the president for the next five years," Matonga said.


Mugabe's Presence at UN Food Summit "Obscene"
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

147 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:58:21am
148 bill-tb  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:08:22am

Carter's Mugabe is acting downright ungrateful these days.

149 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:20:44am

From a National Post article "A symbol of the UN's Failure":

According to Oxfam, 80% of Zimbabwe's population now
lives on less than $1 a day, thanks to Mugabe's policies, and lacks access to basic foods and clean water. Inflation is at 100,000%, this year's harvest was poor and Zimbabweans are fleeing their country in large numbers. Meanwhile, Mugabe is notorious for using food aid as a political weapon, distributing it only to those who reliably vote for him. Thus does his presence at a UN food summit contain many layers of troubling irony. Stephen Smith, the Australian foreign minister and one of Mugabe's more vocal critics, put it less delicately: "Robert Mugabe turning up to a conference dealing with food security or food issues is, in my view, frankly obscene."

150 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:21:41am

re: #148 bill-tb

Carter's Mugabe is acting downright ungrateful these days.

* * *
I understand we have Carter to thank--again--for enabling monsters against humanity./

151 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:22:21am

this brutal killer makes saddam look like kind old man.
he has been destroying his country for decades. decimating it. starving his people. the ones who can are fleeing w/ the rags on their backs.
of course he is attacking our officials , who are going to report the atrocities mugabe continues to orchestrate.
he needs to be crushed.

152 Athos  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:26:16am

re: #149 J.S.

If the UN had one whit of the moral authority they claim to have, then they would be focusing their efforts on eliminating odious regimes like this as opposed to letting murderers like Mugabe continue to turn a once viable country into a failed cesspool.

There are times when there is a moral requirement to act and act forcefully.

153 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:29:35am

Meanwhile, today, UN Officials Target USA's immigration policies in Northern Virginia county

Mexican Specialist to Opine!

[Link: www.examiner.com...]

154 Macker  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:33:02am

Dirty Fuckin' Communists....

155 Sabnen  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:34:45am

Mugabe is a dictator. He cannot stand down, he's made too many enemies, he would be killed. He's ruined a country that had a great chance at prosperity. In his mind the weakened condition of the people makes him safer.

He was born in 1924, so he is 84 years old. We can only hope that his Shona tribe 'retires' him soon or he drops dead of his own accord. It's disgusting to see the waste and the death and the suffering he has brought to so many.

I'll never understand why the US stands-by and let's his go on and on and on. The US will do the same as it has done since Ian Smith gave up in 1983 . . . nothing.

156 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:37:31am

re: #145 jcm

I'd play to win...
I'd demand respect....
You can either respect us for want we are, and believe.
Or you can respect what we can do to you if you piss us off.
Either way works.

You are more generous than I. I would just go to the demonstration of power and let the respect fall into place. They only respect power, so we need to project it, not talk about it some more.

157 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:40:27am

re: #152 Athos

I think the United Nations has outlived its usefulness. I believe it should be disbanded -- shut down -- or re-located to Central Africa where these murderous thugs and their cronies belong and can gallivant around together to their hearts content. Get rid of the UN headquarters -- don't allow its presence in New York. They are utterly, utterly despicable.

But, of course, this (reality here) won't happen. Especially won't happen if the Obamanation becomes President...(I don't even want to think what horrors will ensue with the UN and an Obama president...too ghastly to contemplate.)

158 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:41:38am

The silence of fellow "dear leaders" on that continent is deafening.

All those human rights Carter talked about, don't apply to Carter's creations & crooked allies from Carter's time.

159 soccerdad  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:46:40am

re: #140 alegrias

Give Brits credit, they MIGHT revoke Mugabe's silly honorary "knighthood"! And they really mean it.

From June 3
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Alegrias -- EXCELLENT find. A frigging tin pot dictator is thumbing his nose at the Brits (and us!) and they threaten to strip him of some imaginary Title that he could not give two shits about. Beautiful move Brittania -- oh how far you have fallen.

In reading the article -- it is literally unbelievable the amount of bureaucracy. How much must all these offices be costing British taxpayers? To administer Knighthoods? gimme a break.

Revoking the title is a detailed, lengthy process that begins with the Foreign Office recommending the forfeit of the award, the spokeswoman said. That recommendation is made to the queen via the prime minister's office.

If the queen approves the recommendation, the Central Chancery of the Orders of the Knighthood is informed, the spokeswoman said. The chancery is part of the palace and organizes the knighthoods and honors.

Finally, the Foreign Office notifies the recipient of the honor that it is being revoked, the spokeswoman said.

160 Athos  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:53:15am

re: #159 soccerdad

Hmm. Bureaucracy? or excuses?

PM delivers letter to Queen requesting disinvesture.
Queen approves and staff delivers to Central Chancery.
Central Chancery updates records and notifies FO
FO gives Mugabe the bird.

1 Business Day - max. if there is the will to do it. It would only take longer if Parliament had to get involved. Then it would be a mess.

161 alegrias  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:02:19am

Obama's now discredited staff person Samantha Powers wrote about Zimbabwe/Mugabe in 2003:

Turning a breadbasket into a basket case in ten easy steps—the Robert Mugabe way

How to Kill a Country
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

162 ElChimpy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:17:42am

Another situation when we'll do nothing. It's ok to kill and beat service members of the US or Britain. We're below the rights of all those we've helped.

163 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:26:40am
164 astronmr20  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:38:12am

If these diplomats were hurt, I can tell you how it will go down:

Since they are alive, they are going to be told by the powers that be (call that the state department, their bosses, the president, etc), to "take one for the team." They will be told more or less keep this quiet and not describe their experience in detail.

While this may be big deal, the U.S. is not going to start launching rockets into there or changing it's "policy" in Zimbabwe.

Not a chance.

And this is how it would happen under ANY administration.

165 Is it me?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:57:30am

Why do either of our countries have an embassy in Zimbabwe at all?
Are there citizens working there? We might well be keeping ours open to try to protect the white farmers that are left from Mugabe but why America.
If neither is the case then why not shut down our embassies, bring the diplomats home, if any international aid is going there - yank it.

Zimbabwe is a beautiful country. It should be doing well. It used to have commercial farms that employed a lot of people and IIRC some safari parks as well. Instead Mugabe promised his supporters that they would be gifted land for supporting him (this also gave him the chance to BF the commercially competent farmers - possibly all white and give colonialism one in the eye). As a result what he's got is probably inefficient subsistance farming with not enough surplus to be sold in local markets or the capital. Food shortages follow and prices rise. Who knows where the other staples of life came from. If imported then they probably don't have money generated from internal industry/natural resources to pay for them.
It must be a nightmare for people.

Direct military action is probably not logistically possible. Zimbabwe is landlocked with borders to Mozambique, Botswana South Africa and Zambia. All members of the Commonwealth (Moz. was Portugese but joined the Commonwealth after it was set up. I have no idea why). This does not mean that any of them would allow foreign military on their soil. They either don't want to provoke Mugabe into attacking their countries (assuming he has the capacity) and they tend to stick together concerning thugs. That leaves you with a flat top floating off the coast of Mozambique or a long distance bombing raid (probably too indiscriminate). I'm sure special forces (possibly SAS and others) have probably done plans in the past but it is too risky. You can't just float a load of SEALS into Harare. You have no way of identifying friend from foe; as for diving suits.... they will just watch them floating down - clutching their machetes - and thinking *yum, calamari!*, it would be another Mogadishu, don't go there!
NuLabour won't do anything, they are cowards. I have utter contempt for them.

166 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 12:00:54pm

Since Mugabe uses food to control the people, why don't we send the Navy ships which were turned away from giving supplies to Myanmar on to drop that food to the Zimbabwean people.

1. Starving people are fed.
2. Mugabe is shown up.
3. The Zimbabwe opposition would be emboldened.
4. Loosened ties between Zimbabwe and whatever country allows us to cross their airspace to drop the food. I know that S. Africa is kind of chummy with Mugabe, I don't know about Mozambique. Either way, it would create a fission between Zimbabwe and one of its neighbors.
5. Burma's rulers come off looking even worse for turning down the aid.
6. Great PR for the US.

167 code red 21  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 1:17:36pm

Somebody has probably already said this but we need to send a missile up Mugabe's ass ASAP.

168 Seraphym  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 1:46:13pm

This is why Delta and SEALs exist.

Call up DEVGRU and whoever their helicopter squadron is (it's believed to be a specially attached squadron) and get these guys out in 18 hrs.

Acts of war against diplomats there on a mission of peace and "mutual understanding" deserve decisive action that leaves no doubt as to how subsequent similar acts will be handled. As violence has already been used against those detained, I'd recommend the entry team load with frangible rounds and don't take prisoners (personal recommendation, that is, 'cause I'm in a bad mood today).

~S~

169 tommygum  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 4:06:25pm

re: #85 savage_nation

Arm the fuck out of every one of Rhodesia's neighbors.

I refuse to use the name Zimbabwe.

I still use the name Rhodesia as well.

170 Sacred Plants  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:34:01am

re: #164 astronmr20

Since they are alive, they are going to be told by the powers that be (call that the state department, their bosses, the president, etc), to "take one for the team." They will be told more or less keep this quiet and not describe their experience in detail.

Do these vehicles carry urinal bottles for the case their inmates get into the situation to play pick-up sticks with local attackers?

171 selfishant  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 9:38:07pm

Can't we just send in the Michigan National guard to take out Zimbabwe? How hard can it be?


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