LGF

 RetweetVDH Schools Pat 'We Didn't Appease Hitler Enough' Buchanan

Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:59:22 pm PDT

Victor Davis Hanson takes Pat Buchanan to school: The Bad War?

NORMANDY, France — Questioning the past is a good thing, but rewriting it contrary to facts is quite another. In the latest round of revisionism about the Second World War, the awful British and naive Americans, not the poor Germans, have ended up as the real culprits.

Take the new book by conservative pundit Patrick Buchanan, “Churchill, Hitler and ‘The Unnecessary War’: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World.” Buchanan argues that, had the imperialist Winston Churchill not pushed poor Hitler into a corner, he would have never invaded Poland in 1939, which triggered an unnecessary Allied response.

Maybe then the subsequent world war, and its 50 million dead, could have been avoided. Taking that faulty argument to its logical end, I suppose today a united West might live in peace with a reformed (and victorious) Nazi Third Reich!

On the left, the novelist Nicholson Baker in a book of nonfiction, “Human Smoke: The Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization,” builds the case that the Allied bombing of German cities was tantamount to a war crime.

Apparently there was no need to, in blanket fashion, attack German urban centers and the industry, transportation and communications concentrated inside them. From Baker’s comfortable vantage point, either the war was amoral or unnecessary — or there must have been more humane ways to stop the flow of fuel, crews and equipment for the Waffen SS divisions that invaded Europe and Russia.

In the luxury of some 60 years of postwar peace and affluence — and perhaps in anger over the current Iraq war — Buchanan and Baker and other revisionists engage in a common sort of Western second-guessing. The result is that they always demand liberal democracies be not just better and smarter than their adversaries, but almost superhuman in their perfection.

Buchanan and others, for example, fault the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I as too harsh on a defeated Germany and thus an understandable pretext for the rise of the Nazis, who played on German anger and fear.

Those accords may have been flawed, but they were far better than what Germany itself had offered France in 1871 after the Franco-Prussian War, or Russia after its collapse in 1917 — or what it had planned for Britain and France had it won the First World War. What ultimately led to World War II was neither Allied meanness to Germany between the two wars nor an unwillingness to understand the Nazis’ pain and anguish.

Read the whole thing.

Buchanan has been all over Fox News lately, and it’s simply nauseating to see it. Don’t they realize what this guy is up to?

Here’s what his magazine put on the cover to attack Rudy Giuliani, in an issue that also featured the ravings of loony left blogger Glenn Greenwald (yet another far-left/far-right crossover):

And here’s Buchanan again, meeting with the leaders of the Belgian fascist party Vlaams Belang in 2007:

Why is Fox promoting this paleo-nutjob? This kind of far-right garbage is one reason why Barack Obama is ascendant, and if the Republican Party is going to embrace creeps like Buchanan again in a misguided quest for conservative purity, get ready for at least 8 years of leftist government.

Advertisement

201 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:01:11pm
2 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:01:23pm
3 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:03:34pm

Buch⊕n⊕n!

4 blue_like_jazz  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:03:37pm

well, at least we're in a place where people aren't accepted on who they say they are... they're examined and vetted, no matter their label.

5 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:04:24pm

WTF? Isn't this creep an MSNBC employee?

Goodness knows Fox doesn't need this clown on there.

I flipped it off after I heard O'Reilly mention he was coming on.

6 rsquare  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:05:00pm

If I ever leave the Republican party, it will be because of people like Pat.
He's a jackass of the highest order; and he's not even conservative, in my book.

rsquare

7 DesertSage  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:05:05pm

I finally found Pat Buchanan's baby picture.

8 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:05:22pm
9 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:06:51pm

re: #7 DesertSage

I finally found Pat Buchanan's baby picture.

SHIT!
Two monitors and a keyboard need a thorough cleaning!
ROFLMAO!

10 LoFlyer  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:07:21pm

You go Charles! Pat Buchanan ridiculous statements in the past about "assassinating Victor Hugo" and that "911 was the result of America embracing gays" didn't sit well with anyone except extremists. I have no idea why Fox embraces Buchanan, unless Fox has the goal of making Christians look bad!

11 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:07:36pm

Pat Buchanan is an idiot and I fail to understand why anybody would give him the time of day.

12 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:07:51pm
13 BignJames  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:07:57pm

An idiot...with a huge ego.

14 Alibaba  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:08:27pm

Yes, why does O'Reilly and Sean Hannity have this guy on? The media fawns over this guy who has neo-Nazi sympathies. Marc Levin, the other day, commented about Pat's "having a dark side" and left it at that. He should have called him what he is: an anti-Semitic fascist who probably would have signed up for Hilter Youth had he lived in Germany pre WWII. We save the world and this is the thanks we get from Pat. BTW: Pat is more of German descent than Irish - keep that in mind. He has also gone out of his way to defend convicted Nazi war criminals.re: #5 JammieWearingFool

WTF? Isn't this creep an MSNBC employee?

Goodness knows Fox doesn't need this clown on there.

I flipped it off after I heard O'Reilly mention he was coming on.

15 Alibaba  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:09:05pm

re: #6 rsquare
Pat left the Republican party years ago. He belongs to the Reformist party or whatever they call themselves.

16 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:09:06pm

re: #13 BignJames

An idiot...with a huge ego.

Arrogance and ignorance is an ugly, and far too common, combination.

17 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:09:14pm
18 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:09:32pm

It's a good question why Fox, Hannity and all the rest keep having this guy on their show. He hasn't brought anything new to the ideological or policy discussion in years, and his views are thoroughly out of the mainstream.

Yet, this is who they promote?

Garbage in - garbage out.

19 mikeinmd  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:09:43pm

That is an astounding view of Rudy.
Would Buchanan have told the Prince of Piss to STFU and keep his damned money ?
I think not.
SPIT

20 Catttt  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:11:01pm

I know Fox News reads this blog. I hope they listen to Charles and axe Mr. Buchanan. I mute him a lot.

And Glenn Greenwald = barf. His writing makes me scream.

21 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:11:13pm
22 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:11:51pm

Did anyone read the article with Rudy as a sort of Nazi?
Someone I work with had posted to Kos that Rudy and Petraeus were planning WWIII, and I wonder if he got it from there.

23 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:11:54pm

Maybe Pat's cheap.

24 LoFlyer  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:11:58pm

re: #19 mikeinmd

That is an astounding view of Rudy.
Would Buchanan have told the Prince of Piss to STFU and keep his damned money ?
I think not.
SPIT

I miss Rudy, I would feel alot more comortable voting for Rudy, rather than McCain!

/we have to play the cards we are dealt

25 Charles  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:12:01pm

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

It is indeed ironic that Buchanan, so ideologically and emotionally allied to fascism himself, should have condemned Giuliani by tarring him with fascist imagery.

This is a time-honored tactic of antisemites. They use their own hatefulness to smear their enemies.

26 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:12:03pm

Groan!

27 bj  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:12:06pm

Might be time to send FOX a few emails re buchanan. I can't even stand to see his picture much less hear/read him. Spit! Spit!

28 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:12:34pm

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

It is indeed ironic that Buchanan, so ideologically and emotionally allied to fascism himself, should have condemned Giuliani by tarring him with fascist imagery.

The shrinks would call that "projection"...

29 Irene NYC  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:13:18pm

re: #19 mikeinmd

Yeah, Buchanan really HATES Norman Podhoretz (reference the WWIV armband) and HATES anybody who isn't rabidly isolationist.

30 gruvin  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:13:52pm

When you're the left's posterboy, you can get all the media coverage you want.

31 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:13:59pm

Pat is glib and combative, an old McLaughlin Group guy. Reliable to say something ridiculous. Maven. Maybe appearing for less than his competitors.

32 jaunte  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:14:24pm

re: #29 Irene NYC

Buchanan is an idiot if he thinks it's possible to be an isolationist in this century.

33 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:14:35pm

re: #22 Kosh's Shadow

Did anyone read the article with Rudy as a sort of Nazi?
Someone I work with had posted to Kos that Rudy and Petraeus were planning WWIII, and I wonder if he got it from there.

Actually, it was supposed to be Rudy and Podhoretz
Link, for those with hazmat suits.

34 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:14:53pm
35 LoFlyer  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:15:15pm

BBL guys, enjoyed the conversation but have a few chores to do, well actually its more than a few chores. See ya on the flip side!

36 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:16:16pm
37 VegasRick  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:16:47pm

re: #28 CIA Reject

The shrinks would call that "projection"...

I call it projectile!

38 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:16:53pm

re: #31 godfrey

Pat is glib and combative, an old McLaughlin Group guy. Reliable to say something ridiculous. Maven. Maybe appearing for less than his competitors.

ACK! McLaughlin, there's another brain-dead blowhard asshole that the left just loves to tar honest conservatives with! Somebody bring up Bob Dornan and we'll have the blowhard asshole trifecta!

/Oh, I just did...

39 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:17:57pm

OT - the flying pig landed.
Obama didn't mean Jerusalem should stay united under Israeli rule after all:

a campaign adviser clarified Thursday that Obama believes "Jerusalem is a final status issue, which means it has to be negotiated between the two parties" as part of "an agreement that they both can live with."


He refused, however, to rule out other configurations, such as the city also serving as the capital of a Palestinian state or Palestinian sovereignty over Arab neighborhoods.

Let him eat his waffle, people.
Can I say that B. Hussein has managed to make me EVEN MORE DISGUSTED WITH HIM than I was before?

40 GeeWiz  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:18:40pm

re: #11 CIA Reject

Pat Buchanan is an idiot and I fail to understand why anybody would give him the time of day.

Pat B. is not an idiot but an intelligent man with a faulty logic chip which makes him dangerous. An idiot is easy to dismiss not so much a faulty intelligence. Witness his appearances on MSNBC, FNC and a panel member on The McLaughlin Group.

41 offendi  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:18:41pm

Buchanan is where he is today in my opinion because he fits the liberal profile of what a " conservative" is, or rather what can be attributed to conservative views and values. Liberals love tarring conservatives with fascist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic reactionary labels or viewpoints and love anyone of a conservative bent that gives off the remotest stench of them. The liberal media loves giving attention to and quoting such "conservatives", so voila, Mr. Buchanan has a career.

What is kind of disgusting to me is that Buchanan seems to forget the history of Irish in America and the discrimination they suffered. Bet he would have been calling for keeping the Irish out if he was around in Boston in the late 1800s early 1900s and not of Irish descent. Someone of the background and his age should take old tough guy Pat out in the back of the bar and administer the lesson he needs.

You know, all this just my opinion.

42 Fasternu426  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:18:55pm

Pat who?

43 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:19:13pm

re: #39 Kosh's Shadow

OT - the flying pig landed.
Obama didn't mean Jerusalem should stay united under Israeli rule after all:


Let him eat his waffle, people.
Can I say that B. Hussein has managed to make me EVEN MORE DISGUSTED WITH HIM than I was before?

Are you saying that you don't appreciate complete ignorance in a Presidential candidate?

44 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:19:24pm
45 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:20:19pm

Sounds like Bizarro world to me.

46 Charles  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:20:24pm

re: #40 GeeWiz

Pat B. is not an idiot but an intelligent man with a faulty logic chip which makes him dangerous. An idiot is easy to dismiss not so much a faulty intelligence. Witness his appearances on MSNBC, FNC and a panel member on The McLaughlin Group.

Agreed. He's not an idiot at all. He is, however, a creep.

47 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:20:27pm

re: #38 CIA Reject

Buchanan in 1990: "Capitol Hill is Israeli occupied territory." On the McLaughlin Group, June 15, 1990. More at the ADL.

48 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:20:59pm

re: #42 Fasternu426

Pat who?

Pat who the fuck cares what you think.

49 jaunte  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:21:28pm

Ok, an idiot savant, then.

50 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:21:57pm

re: #44 buzzsawmonkey

When Obama's "united Jerusalem" is combined with his call for a contiguous "Palestinian" state, it appears that he is indeed favorable to Jerusalem staying united--under Arab rule.

I doubt if shown a map of Jerusalem, Obama would be able to point out east from west, much less the important land marks. You know little things like the Old City?

51 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:15pm
52 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:39pm

Those assholes at American Conservative aren't worthy to lick Rudy's shoes.

Now, I'm gonna' go take a walk before I rip them a new one.

53 GeeWiz  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:44pm

re: #46 Charles

Agreed!

54 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:57pm

re: #49 jaunte

Ok, an idiot savant, then.

Or a savanting idiot maybe?

55 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:59pm

re: #39 Kosh's Shadow

OT - the flying pig landed.

I smell bacon, that's how swiftly Obama's comments went up in flames.

56 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:22:59pm

Not fair Charles, stop doing this to me. Its the second time you've given us a tantalizingly close look at two very swiss-looking ski-bunnyish chicks without fulfilling the promise of a chance of a better appraisal. Mind you, they could be lesbian.

57 jcm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:23:12pm

Pat,

Isolationism died once and for all on Oct. 4 1957. Since then time and distance offer no protection. Even if we cower at home, send nothing abroad our enemies will hate us. Until you, the Paulbots, the Obamanics and all the other who believe we are fault understand this; you are the ones who are DANGEROUS! Not those who would extert our influence abroad.

We are not hated for what we do, how we do it, we are not hated for what we produce. We are hated for one, and one thing only. We believe in individual liberty. That idea alone dooms our enemies, individual liberty in the end will be victorious. Our enemies believe they can root that idea out, here where it took root and flourished. They are wrong. But your even more wrong thinking if we don't involve ourselves we will be left alone.

You can sincerely ES and FOAD.

58 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:23:32pm

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

To amplify #44: "Contiguous" does not mean "connected by a land bridge" or "linked by a highway" or "connected by a tunnel."

"Contiguous" means one single land mass. There are only two ways this can come about: either Gaza is given back to Israel now that the Arabs have returned it to a desert state, and a corresponding chunk of Israel is lopped off and grafted onto the West Bank, or Israel is made non-contiguous to please the Arabs.

Yeah but in the middle east, words have a way of being redefined all the time.

59 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:23:33pm

re: #52 MandyManners

Those assholes at American Conservative aren't worthy to lick Rudy's shoes.

Now, I'm gonna' go take a walk before I rip them a new one.


You go, girl!

60 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:24:42pm

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

It is indeed ironic that Buchanan, so ideologically and emotionally allied to fascism himself, should have condemned Giuliani by tarring him with fascist imagery.

"Buzz"

I suspect that the word PROJECTION means something to you.

_S-

61 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:25:06pm

re: #57 jcm

WELL SAID!

62 calcajun  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:25:27pm

Ohh. I got a tingle down my leg at that picture of Der Rudy.

Oh Gawd. The idea that brokering a deal with Hitler in September 1939 would have only postponed the inevitable war with Germany and the West. Of course, it might have been fun to see a brokered deal in place before September 17...when the USSR invaded Poland from the east; what would have been the excuse then.

But, the suggestion that Churchill put Hitler in a corner is absurd, especially given that Churchill was not the PM on September 1--he was not even part of the government; he only the Right Honourable Member for Epping at the time.

On another fundamental level, "what if" history is avoided like the plague by serious historians. It's great for cocktail parties and alternate history novels, but it has no place in serious discussions.

Buchanan's game of "what might have been" is little more than mental masturbation; it feels good for only one person and produces no results.

63 mikeinmd  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:25:38pm

People on the right hate Israel.
People on the left hate Israel.
Some Israelis hate Israel.
99% of the Arab lands hate Israel.
Europe hates Israel.
Antarctica is undecided.
WTF.

DRINK!

64 Fasternu426  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:26:16pm
65 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:27:21pm

There are more slabs of of Buchanan tripe here.

66 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:27:27pm

see what happens when the condom breaks.

67 calcajun  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:27:29pm

re: #63 mikeinmd

All that matters is that God likes Israel.

"I'm God, and I approve this country."

68 Carridine  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:28:04pm

re: #63 mikeinmd

Baha'is LOVE Israel!

/no, thanks... I don't drink

69 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:28:42pm

Charles -

Pat Buchanan ALWAYS sees a FOREST - He refuses, however to look at a TREE! That is and ever shall be HIS PROBLEM!

-S-

70 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:29:36pm

re: #67 calcajun

All that matters is that God likes Israel.

"I'm God, and I approve this country."

He has a funny way of showing it sometimes don't you think?

71 onslow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:29:37pm

Lay off Pat will you, he hasn't been the same since Franco died.

On an unrelated note, Fatherland , which imagines a Nazi victory in WWII, is a decent alt-history thriller.

72 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:29:58pm

hitler was killing everyone he could who didn't measure up to his insane idea for the perfect aryan race. jews, gypsies, poles, catholics, gays , hungarians, and non-party members who questioned his sanity.
he was eventually going to come for us.
there was no way hitler would have been satisfied w/ ruling only europe . buchanan is truly demented.

73 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:30:12pm

My belief in a political circle puts the far 'right' and the far left converging at the bottom. Fascists with only a difference in agenda's and who should be killed.

74 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:30:37pm
get ready for at least 8 years of leftist socialist government.

/let's not mince words

75 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:31:04pm

re: #68 Carridine

Carradine -

The Baha'is do NOT have their "Temple" in Eretz Yisroel for NO REASON.

-S-

76 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:31:33pm

re: #72 nyc redneck

hitler was killing everyone he could who didn't measure up to his insane idea for the perfect aryan race. jews, gypsies, poles, catholics, gays , hungarians, and non-party members who questioned his sanity.
he was eventually going to come for us.
there was no way hitler would have been satisfied w/ ruling only europe . buchanan is truly demented.

There is a non-published set of writings by Hitler that says exactly that.

77 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:31:55pm

Buchanan = Paulbot.

78 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:31:58pm

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.

79 Peter Verkooijen  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:32:03pm
Why is Fox promoting this paleo-nutjob? This kind of far-right garbage is one reason why Barack Obama is ascendant, and if the Republican Party is going to embrace creeps like Buchanan again in a misguided quest for conservative purity, get ready for at least 8 years of leftist government.

Amen!

Don't ever mistake European neo-nazis for misunderstood conservatives. They have nothing in common with mainstream American conservatism.

I agree with buzzsawmonkey that Buchanan is a Coughlinite, not a mainstream conservative.

BTW, Pat Robertson is a nutcase too.

McCain should concentrate on shaping a future for the Republican party, starting with the VP pick, followed by all future appointments. The Convention should showcase people like Bobby Jindal, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, Charlie Crist and of course Rudy Giuliani.

80 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:32:07pm

re: #69 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

Pat Buchanan ALWAYS sees a FOREST - He refuses, however to look at a TREE! That is and ever shall be HIS PROBLEM!

-S-

Plus he should lose some weight, that double chin doubles every six months.

81 jaunte  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:04pm

re: #76 Nevergiveup

Not to mention his well-publicized planning of long-range bombers to reach New York.

82 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:06pm

Charles, you crack me up!

83 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:13pm

re: #74 Killian Bundy

"K-B"

In my mind, Two Terms of OBAMA, would be Two Terms of FLATULENT GOVERNMENT until proven differently.

-S-

84 rusty_armor  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:28pm

He must have gotten some wardrobe advice. Hardly recognized him without the cheap gray suit ...

85 calcajun  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:30pm

re: #70 Nevergiveup

Look at the Old Testament and you can see historical/cyclical patterns in Israel. Basically, the Hebrews get God pissed; He pours a can of divine whup-ass on them for breaking his laws; they repent; He forgives; then the next generation forgets what happened and repeats the cycle.

You could say it continues to this day.

86 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:33:32pm

re: #78 lawhawk

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.

Well that's just the point. He DOES NOT KNOW BETTER! He is so inexperienced that most of the people here would be more qualified to be President.

87 FrogMarch  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:34:30pm

Shame on Fox news and that self-absorbed Bill OReilly.

Is there anyone more self-absorbed than Bill OReilly? I don't think so. Bernie Goldberg even called him on it right to his face. (genius)

88 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:34:42pm

re: #85 calcajun

Look at the Old Testament and you can see historical/cyclical patterns in Israel. Basically, the Hebrews get God pissed; He pours a can of divine whup-ass on them for breaking his laws; they repent; He forgives; then the next generation forgets what happened and repeats the cycle.

You could say it continues to this day.

As i said he has a strange way of showing it.

89 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:35:14pm

re: #86 Nevergiveup

Well that's just the point. He DOES NOT KNOW BETTER! He is so inexperienced that most of the people here would be more qualified to be President.

I am forming a PAC and a presidential exploratory committee to help nominate Charles...whether he wants to run or not.

90 CIA Reject  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:35:54pm

re: #80 So?

Plus he should lose some weight, that double chin doubles every six months.

Maybe he considers it an investment.

91 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:35:59pm

re: #39 Kosh's Shadow

I really don't know if this spinning of Obama's remarks on Jerusalem are at all helpful. Please. Let us just take (and hold) Obama to his word -- and that is One Jerusalem, United, Not divided. And, obviously, under Jewish sovereignty. That is what Obama has said, that is what he meant. CNN's Crowley again today asked Obama if he was going to change his mind on the topic of a United Jerusalem. His answer? "No."

/bear in mind Obama may very well be the next President of the United States

92 Carridine  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:36:06pm

re: #75 Dr. Shalit The world center of the Baha'i Faith is in the Holy Land for very good reasons, Dr Shalit...

In chains, and a prisoner of the Caliphate, He was FORCED into imprisonment in Akka, by His relentless and brutal Muslim enemies, who were unwilling to examine the possibility that He was the Mahdi...

And the Jews were once again, chosen by God to be hosts to God Made Manifest.

93 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:36:33pm

re: #86 Nevergiveup

No, he knows exactly what he's saying - he's lying to AIPAC to get the votes he needs to become President, and wink wink nod nod to the Palestinians with whom he's been friends with all along, and they'll get what they want in the end, while AIPAC and Israel get thrown under the bus.

94 Opinionated  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:36:50pm

re: #39 Kosh's Shadow

OT - the flying pig landed.
Obama didn't mean Jerusalem should stay united under Israeli rule after all:


Let him eat his waffle, people.
Can I say that B. Hussein has managed to make me EVEN MORE DISGUSTED WITH HIM than I was before?

The idiot percentage of AIPAC that are Democracts are still cheering his lies.

95 GeeWiz  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:37:02pm

re: #57 jcm

Pat B's underlying theme has always been isolationism. In that lies the fault in his thinking as well as his anti-semetic leanings. His sister, Bay is more grounded in the reality of the world today. The only time I tolerate Pat B. is when he is on The McLaughlin Group and he needles Eleanor Cliff. I wonder why Tony Blankley was replaced by Monica Crowley?

96 offendi  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:37:07pm

re: #78 lawhawk

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.

The Palestinians want it all. They didn't care that Clinton and Barak offered them a state and almost all the desired land at Camp David, or what any US President says. This is a religious war against the infidel that dares to occupy territory in the land of muslims.

97 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:37:33pm

re: #78 lawhawk

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.

he's a blatant disgusting liar and so far the msm spins all his bs perfectly or ignores it completely.

98 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:37:41pm

Charles posts:

[I]f the Republican Party is going to embrace creeps like Buchanan again in a misguided quest for conservative purity, get ready for at least 8 years of leftist government.

Last I checked, Buchanan was no longer a Republican.

99 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:37:55pm

re: #93 lawhawk

No, he knows exactly what he's saying - he's lying to AIPAC to get the votes he needs to become President, and wink wink nod nod to the Palestinians with whom he's been friends with all along, and they'll get what they want in the end, while AIPAC and Israel get thrown under the bus.

Well whether he is stupid or devious, we gotta stop him. That we can agree on!

100 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:38:37pm

re: #87 FrogMarch

Shame on Fox news and that self-absorbed Bill OReilly.

Is there anyone more self-absorbed than Bill OReilly? I don't think so. Bernie Goldberg even called him on it right to his face. (genius)

i don;t even call him o'reilly, i just call him reilly.

101 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:39:11pm

re: #78 lawhawk

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.


That position is changing by the minute. He was on CNN tonight modifying the position. He looked like he had ants in his pants, his head was tilted to the side, his eyes were closed at points while he talked, and other dead giveaway body language. I can no more believe what he said before AIPAC then...

102 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:39:25pm

re: #80 So?

so? -

I have gotten "older," Weightism is NOT something to criticize Pat Buchanan on. I am now 56 - almost 57 years old. 185 at 6 ft. tall doesn't suck. Not as good as 165 at 50 however. My intention is 175 by year end, a happy medium. Pat Buchanan's "problems" are far greater than that.

-S-

103 nihilist  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:40:08pm

The Republicans need Pat Buchanan hanging around like I need a carbon tax... like Moqtada doesn't need a dentist...like Obama needs Reverend Wright hanging... like Hillary Clinton doesn't need delegates.

104 really grumpy big dog johnson  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:40:14pm

Buckanan's not stupid, but on the entire pantheon of moonbattery from far left, then wrapping immediately to far right, he's pretty much just past the wrap line. His is the insanity of cultural ignorance and blind confidence in the unshakeable foundations of his opinions.

You couldn't change his mind with a lobotomy.

I have big problems with O'Reilly because he claims to be so based on facts, but he has his own inviolables and will not even attempt to vet those he figures are already parked inside his safe line.

O'Reilly's an effective stimulant for the masses, but he has a lot of ideas that are completely off the wall, including thinking that Buchanan is merely on the Republican conservative right.

He is anything but that.

105 Winmag  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:40:52pm

Pat puts on a good show. "Oh, look at the Conservative." He has become a cariciture of the lefts idea of a conservative. Besides, he used to work for Nixon. How would you like to have that on your resume? Just go away Pat.

106 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:40:57pm

re: #92 Carridine

The world center of the Baha'i Faith is in the Holy Land for very good reasons, Dr Shalit...

In chains, and a prisoner of the Caliphate, He was FORCED into imprisonment in Akka, by His relentless and brutal Muslim enemies, who were unwilling to examine the possibility that He was the Mahdi...

And the Jews were once again, chosen by God to be hosts to God Made Manifest.

Carridine -

And to the DARFUR REFUGEES as well, so it seems.

-S-

107 offendi  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:41:14pm

re: #101 EC Marm

That position is changing by the minute. He was on CNN tonight modifying the position. He looked like he had ants in his pants, his head was tilted to the side, his eyes were closed at points while he talked, and other dead giveaway body language. I can no more believe what he said before AIPAC then...

And in the solitude of the Clinton underground bunker, a cackle is heard...

108 winston06  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:41:56pm

re: #20 Cattt

Fox News should not let clown like this idiot to ruin its reputation among the good conservatives all over the world...

109 calcajun  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:42:12pm

re: #88 Nevergiveup

The reverse is true--we got real short memories and do not learn from the past.

110 godfrey  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:42:27pm

re: #86 Nevergiveup

I'm looking forward to see how McCain's team sets Obama up. Get him off script, triangulate questions, and watch him blunder. I don't believe in his political skill: he hasn't had time to develop any. Hillary lost the nomination because the media went yapping after Boy Wonder. She couldn't galvanize attention, Bill was finally recognized as a clown, and she got tired. Obama is almost purely a Chicago machine and media creation.

111 winston06  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:42:55pm

re: #100 nyc redneck

He is not the smartest anchor. He's an average RINO that is in number one because other networks are full of moonbats

112 carole  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:42:57pm

What denomination of organized religion has the most conservative political values? The catholic church and their constant illegal immigration stance and many other political stances are upsetting.

Most churches are so left leaning, and to be with like minded people would be comforting in these times.

113 offendi  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:43:21pm

re: #100 nyc redneck

i don;t even call him o'reilly, i just call him reilly.

Maybe Bill isn't getting enough "loofah" time?

114 Paul  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:44:23pm

Blaming Churchill for the outbreak of WWII is absurd. Hitler was determined to launch a war of conquest as soon as he thought Germany was ready; he did everything in his power to bring that war about. Buchanan is an unhistorical ass and a intellectual neo-fascist thug.

Sadly, there is a growing movement on the far left and far right (and in Germany) to make the Third Reich the real victim of the war.

115 winston06  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:44:49pm

re: #57 jcm

Indeed. The US is hated because it stands for Freedom and Individual Liberty.

116 wolfie  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:44:57pm

I think Buchanan has always had a creepy streak, but he really started to manifest it in the Reagan years. It has gotten progressively worse and worse.

I can't help but believe that he deeply resented the rise of neo-conservatism in the 80's. Unlike like most conservatives and Republicans, he was
disgusted rather than delighted by the entry of so many reformed liberals and Democrats into the Reagan movement. Those people were violating his turf.

Does anyone here remember when William Buckley finally cut Buchanan off from National Review and argued forcefully that Pat was indeed an anti-semite? This was fairly early in the game, and many thought Buckley was over-reacting to petty and ambiguous signs.

Well, Buckley has long since been completely vindicated.

117 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:45:00pm

re: #98 Dar ul Harb

I think he rejoined in 2006.

118 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:45:02pm

re: #90 CIA Reject

Maybe he considers it an investment.

re: #99 Nevergiveup

Well whether he is stupid or devious, we gotta stop him. That we can agree on!

re: #102 Dr. Shalit

so? -

I have gotten "older," Weightism is NOT something to criticize Pat Buchanan on. I am now 56 - almost 57 years old. 185 at 6 ft. tall doesn't suck. Not as good as 165 at 50 however. My intention is 175 by year end, a happy medium. Pat Buchanan's "problems" are far greater than that.

-S-

My comment was meant to be humorous, lighten up.

119 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:45:32pm

Buchanan is an ass and in fact he took the title of his book from Winston Churchill's own words:

from the introduction to "The Gathering Storm":

One day president Roosevelt told me that he was asking publicly for suggestions about what the war should be called. I said at once "The Unnecessary war". There never was a war more easy to stop..."

Churchill goes on to say, in his introduction,

"It is my earnest hope that pondering upon the past may give guidance in days to come, (and) enable a new generation to repair some of the errors of former years... and govern, in accordance with the needs and glory of man, the awful unfolding scene of the future."

1948

120 Alouette  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:45:41pm

re: #46 Charles

Agreed. He's not an idiot at all. He is, however, a creep.

He is more of a shmuck than a creep.

121 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:46:11pm

re: #106 Dr. Shalit

Reply to Self and Carridine -

Were the Ba'Hai faith to replace the Haditha Islamic, all of this CRAP would be over.

-S-

122 winston06  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:46:11pm

re: #41 offendi

a great observation

123 itsspideyman  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:47:07pm

While it's good to revisit history and perhaps take decisions made in the past and give them the question from a modern perspective, the possibility that Hitler would have be satisfied with the minor provinces of Austria, the Sudetenland and Poland doesn't stand up to the facts. In Mien Kamph Hitler clearly spelled out his campaign through Eastern Europe, the destiny of the German people to rule western Europe and the twisted rationale for the Holocaust. Everything that happened was going to happen regardless whether England would declare war on them or not. In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich William Shirer spells this out.

Pat Buchanan has pushed himself to the radical fringe that applies to both sides of the political spectrum. He is an embarrassment to anyone that ever considered him respectable.

124 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:48:01pm

re: #118 So?

So? -

So - I am, So - I Shall be, a very slightly too fat 56/7 year old.

-S-

125 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:48:33pm

re: #120 Alouette

He is more of a shmuck than a creep.

He is more of a putz than a schmuck or a creep.

126 Paul  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:48:40pm

If anyone thinks Germany was a victim of WWII, I advise them to read Ian Kershaw's two volume biography of Hitler. Maybe Pat could learn something (if he's capable).

127 winston06  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:48:42pm

re: #123 itsspideyman

I just don't understand how Pres. Reagan could hire this moron

128 GeeWiz  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:49:46pm

re: #100 nyc redneck

I think that Bill "O" books people that will help his ratings, regardless of their positions. I see Bill "O" as almost as empty as BHO. All packaging and only sometimes a product. Ratings rule O'Reilly, never forget that!

129 Joan Not of Arc  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:50:31pm

I cannot believe the faulty reasoning in all of this.
Germany, stung by defeat in the First World War, was morally, socially and politically bankrupt. Hitler won by one vote and spread his evil all over Austria and Germany. Hitler signed a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union and both Hitler and Stalin took turns invading Poland (let us also not forget the Katyn massacre). It was only when Hitler broke the pact and invaded the Soviet Union that relations became sour. You can believe that Stalin wanted it all and used the Second World War to grease his filthy palms after the war. It was Neville Chamberlain who declared that there would be peace in his time. Churchill had to clean up his mess.
Canada and Britain declared war in 1939. America, always late to the party, declared war after it was attacked by Japan.
If anyone thinks they can trade one tyranny for another, then they have no moral leg to stand on.

130 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:50:41pm

re: #123 itsspideyman

its- +

Don't you wish Bill Shirer was alive today! He is THE GUY who could give Pat the SMACKDOWN! he deserves.

-S-

131 So?  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:50:59pm

Well Obama made the promise of a united Jerusalem as Israel's capital. If he does become Prez and renegs on his promise, then Israel can finally take the gloves off and not be beholden to the United States.

132 funky chicken  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:51:29pm

re: #38 CIA Reject

ACK! McLaughlin, there's another brain-dead blowhard asshole that the left just loves to tar honest conservatives with! Somebody bring up Bob Dornan and we'll have the blowhard asshole trifecta!

/Oh, I just did...

Bob Dornan. LOL Bob Barr is another one of those guys. It's kind of Barr to have left the GOP. One less idiot to have to try to explain away.

133 USBeast  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:52:38pm

There is not one creditable scholar, historian, or commentator who does not believe that the Treaty of Versailles was a colossal mistake. Churchill tore it to peaces in "The Gathering Storm" and Marshall Foch said of it: "This is no peace. It is an armistice for twenty years."

Yes, Germany had every right to hate that treaty. Germany also was given every opportunity to peacefully rebuild its economy and its status on the world stage. Hitler was not necessary.

134 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:52:39pm

re: #129 Joan Not of Arc

"Lady Joan" -

POOP catches up with everyone eventually, including ME!

-S-

135 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:54:02pm

re: #133 USBeast

Evil never has an excuse

136 USBeast  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:56:59pm

re: #135 Ojoe

Evil never has an excuse

Not so. Evil has a million excuses. What it lacks is justification.

137 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:57:25pm

re: #114 Paul

There's an article by Robert Fulford ("Rewriting history (literally") which also provides some details about these attempts to rewrite WWII. Fulford recommends reading the text "1919: Six months that changed the world" in which Margaret MacMillan fully dismantles the notion about the Treaty of Versailles "causing" WWII.

138 Mars Needs Neocons  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 6:58:45pm

re: #96 offendi

The Palestinians want it all. They didn't care that Clinton and Barak offered them a state and almost all the desired land at Camp David, or what any US President says. This is a religious war against the infidel that dares to occupy territory in the land of muslims.

Ok, they win, the palis can have camp david.

139 Mars Needs Neocons  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:01:30pm

re: #110 godfrey

I'm looking forward to see how McCain's team sets Obama up. Get him off script, triangulate questions, and watch him blunder. I don't believe in his political skill: he hasn't had time to develop any. Hillary lost the nomination because the media went yapping after Boy Wonder. She couldn't galvanize attention, Bill was finally recognized as a clown, and she got tired. Obama is almost purely a Chicago machine and media creation.

There are far more insidious things involved in his creation.

140 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:01:40pm
141 USBeast  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:02:50pm

re: #138 Mars Needs Neocons

Ok, they win, the palis can have camp david.

They want Camp David too, but they want Israel first, then Italy, Spain, France...

142 FrogMarch  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:08:02pm

I remember speaking with a rabid jew-hating lesbian one time. She liked Pat Buchanan.

Need I say more?

143 tokyobk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:08:36pm

Any land withj Muslim graves is part of the Dar-al-Islam and therefore open to 'reconquest'.

144 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:08:47pm

re: #78 lawhawk

Obama's making promises to AIPAC that he should know better than to make - and he's only going to piss off the Palestinians in the process by talking about the indivisible Israeli capital of Jerusalem.

Actually, he went back on it already; see #39

145 FrogMarch  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:09:17pm

re: #142 FrogMarch

I remember speaking with a rabid jew-hating LEFTIST lesbian one time. She liked Pat Buchanan.

Need I say more?

(forgot the most important part)

146 tokyobk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:10:13pm

re: #145 FrogMarch

(forgot the most important part)

You know Rosanne Barr?

147 yochanan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:11:00pm

pat PUKEcanan neo nazi scumbag.

148 Slumbering Behemoth  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:13:28pm

Buchanan should be grateful that he'll never have the misfortune of meeting either of my grandfathers, both WWII veterans. 'Nuff said.

149 tokyobk  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:15:20pm

I wish Buchanan had children to spend time loving and being loved by.

150 J.S.  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:15:45pm

re: #144 Kosh's Shadow

From what I've read -- on the topic of an Undivided, United Jerusalem under Jewish sovereignty -- an Obama "advisor" fudged on the issue. Not Obama himself.

151 Joan Not of Arc  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:25:38pm

re: #134 Dr. Shalit

Poop is what I'd call the ludicrous article.

152 Mars Needs Neocons  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:30:10pm

re: #141 USBeast

They want Camp David too, but they want Israel first, then Italy, Spain, France...

and unfortunately that is not a joke.

153 Hard Right  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:30:39pm

Ya know, when I made up the name Puke-Cannon for him I had no idea how accurate it was.

From what I've seen Conservatives and even the GOP loathe Puke-Cannon. So Charles, please don't think the GOP is courting him.

154 yochanan  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:47:59pm

i have been calling him pat PUKEanan for years.

155 N. O'Brain  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:49:57pm

Raises hand in back of the room]

Mr. Hansen?

If Buchanan really said

"...that, had the imperialist Winston Churchill not pushed poor Hitler into a corner, he would have never invaded Poland in 1939, which triggered an unnecessary Allied response."

Um, Mr. Hansen, does Mr. Buchannan realize that Winston Churchill was a back bencher in Parliament, with a following of about three other MPs, was politically isolated by the Tories and that he had no power other than as an MP, and couldn't have "pushed" Hitler in any way shape or form?

156 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 7:52:09pm

Stopping the war, did that include shutting down the Holocaust machine - genocide central - or were those Jewish men, women and children - just necessary losses?

I. Am. Flabbergasted.

157 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:01:52pm

Isolationism is a fancy way of saying "America First" and fomenting nationalism- THE key component of fascism. "Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, no one against the state." You can't reach nationalism until the state is the primary factor in every citizen's thinking.

I think what really bothers pat about WWII is it defeated fascism.

158 DJ  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:34:23pm

Unbelievable. Well, I guess not from this whack-job. What a fool. You are right, Charles, he should not be held as any standard bearer for our side. This election and our future is depressing...

159 gymnast  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 8:38:09pm

Buchanan jumped the shark so many times that he ought to go out for the track team. The only history that Pat can right about authoritatively would be related to the Bermuda Triangle or his life as a political clown.

160 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:09:34pm

"[Buchanan's] kind of far-right garbage is one reason why Barack Obama is ascendant" - I'm sorry, Charles, but you have to source this claim. "Quotes or it didn't happen" as they say.

It isn't 1992 anymore.

I've never heard any Obama supporter cite the presence of America Firsters and antiSemites in the Republican camp as the reason for supporting Obama. Instead I hear a lot of platitudes about "change" - change toward a Buchananite dream of socialism at home and isolationism abroad.

161 Charles  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:11:21pm

re: #160 Zimriel

"[Buchanan's] kind of far-right garbage is one reason why Barack Obama is ascendant" - I'm sorry, Charles, but you have to source this claim. "Quotes or it didn't happen" as they say.

It isn't 1992 anymore.

I've never heard any Obama supporter cite the presence of America Firsters and antiSemites in the Republican camp as the reason for supporting Obama. Instead I hear a lot of platitudes about "change" - change toward a Buchananite dream of socialism at home and isolationism abroad.

So your opinion is that having Pat Buchanan associated with the Republican Party helps in the election campaign? Or is it just that it doesn't hurt?

Because I think it's extremely clear that lunatics and haters damage the GOP brand enormously.

162 Quilly Mammoth  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:12:11pm

As I've mentioned in several threads that Pat PukeCannon's latest piece in Human Events is nothing more than a white wash of Hitler's intentions. It claims that had Chamberlain not agreed to protect Poland that the Holocaust would never have happened. Absolute Rubbish!

163 mr. beamish  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:13:08pm

Hitler was a leftist.

164 Quilly Mammoth  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:13:53pm

Charles. PukeCannon should be run out of Conservative (Classical Liberal) circles on a rail. He's an isolationist with neo-nazi leanings. Just as many isolationists in the 30's were.

165 mr. beamish  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:20:13pm

re: #161 Charles

re: #161 Charles

So your opinion is that having Pat Buchanan associated with the Republican Party helps in the election campaign? Or is it just that it doesn't hurt?

Because I think it's extremely clear that lunatics and haters damage the GOP brand enormously.

Look at it another way. Pat Buchanan bolted out of the Republican party wanting to take conservatives with him. No conservatives noticed.

166 Bacchus's daddy  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:20:21pm

Those accords may have been flawed, but they were far better than what Germany itself had offered France in 1871 after the Franco-Prussian War, or Russia after its collapse in 1917 — or what it had planned for Britain and France had it won the First World War

This is the part that really leapt out at me. Revisionists, and liberals of the utopian stripe, are adept at armchair criticism of history for moments, or "accords", that fall short of perfection. Sadly, but realistically, "perfection" is a chimera in the real world, and historical or cultural war/ conflict is necessarily between two or more powers/ ideologies. None will be perfect, but when the better prevails, we should celebrate.

Only idiots in their armchairs 60 years later can forget/ignore the reality of what would have happened had the Nazis won or WWII not been fought.

167 mr. beamish  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:22:39pm

Pat Buchanan and Michael Kinsley on Crossfire used to be my chief example (pre-Fox) of the lack of conservative news talk shows.

168 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:27:03pm

Did I say anything about whether the Republicans should embrace Buchanan? All I recall saying is that the Republicans have nothing to do with Buchanan, that Obama knows it, that Obama hardly mentions Buchanan, and that Buchanan has no impact on whatever goes through Obama supporters' heads.

Unless, that is, you have evidence that Obama supporters are pointing at Buchanan (or Paul Craig Roberts, or Stormfront, or Alex Jones, or Ron Paul, or whoever) and trying to link these loons with McCain.

Buchanan isn't associated with the Republican Party, which is thoroughly a Bush-McCain party now. While both McCain and Buchanan ran against Bush in 2000, Buchanan took the extra step of doing that in the general election - therefore trying to do to the Republican party what Nader did to the Democrats. Any Republican who advocates any sort of Buchananism has had to and will have to do it over the Republican establishment. McCain even opposes border enforcement.

I must also add that Buchanan's magazine The American Conservative prefers Obama to McCain - precisely because both Obama (when no-one is watching) and Buchanan object to the Iraq war and to Israel.

169 Charles  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:31:32pm

re: #168 Zimriel

Buchanan isn't associated with the Republican Party, which is thoroughly a Bush-McCain party now.

Sorry, I can't agree with that. Pat Buchanan is definitely associated with the Republican Party. When he appears on Fox News or MSNBC he's identified as a "conservative," which equates to "Republican" for most people, and that's probably exactly why MSNBC has him on.

As to why Fox is promoting him, that's another question.

But there's no doubt whatsoever that Pat Buchanan's "mainstream" image is as a Republican, because he's never been thoroughly rejected by the GOP.

170 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:51:29pm

I wouldn't pay attention to Fox in this case. Fox's audience are conservatives who are well aware of the differences between McCain and Buchanan.

As for MSNBC, I find it hard to believe its audience is going to make the connection between McCain and Buchanan either. If MSNBC were even trying to make this connection, I say we'd be hearing about it night after night from Matthews and Olbermann. You claim that Buchanan's status as a "conservative" is scaring people over to Obama. Since you made the claim it is your duty to back this up.

One could certainly argue that MSNBC having Buchanan around isn't helpful to the conservative movement, but if you polled Obama voters they wouldn't mention Buchanan. (Except to praise him...)

171 Uncle Joe  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:52:13pm

Fox regularly "features" lowlifes like Buchanan, Geraldo Rivera and Al Sharpton. It may be the closest thing we have to a right-leaning news network but it's still an awful mess in many ways.

172 Charles  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:07:38pm

re: #170 Zimriel

I wouldn't pay attention to Fox in this case. Fox's audience are conservatives who are well aware of the differences between McCain and Buchanan.

Speaking of backing up claims, do you have something to back up this claim? Because I sincerely doubt that everyone who watches Fox News is as savvy as you seem to think they are.

You claim that Buchanan's status as a "conservative" is scaring people over to Obama. Since you made the claim it is your duty to back this up.

I believe the presence of troglodytes like Buchanan is damaging the GOP and helping to drive centrists away, and if you try to claim that it isn't, you're simply closing your eyes to an obvious truth. If you want to insist that I "prove" it, go ahead.

173 Murqtaad  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:12:57pm

The media loves Buchanan because he comes across just the way they want so-called republicans to. He is a complete moron. A racist, bigoted borderline to mentally retarded jackass. And he thinks the attention he gets from the press is because he knows whats going on. When in all actuallity it's because he helps the dems make a case against conservatives.

174 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:37:59pm

If Fox news watchers can watch coverage of McCain and speeches from Buchanan and not hear the difference between them, then they're not only not-savvy, they're also not watching the news. Any news channel. Especially Fox. Which would make them not-watchers-of-Fox-News.

When your head is done exploding, I could point to any number of reasons people are sick of Bush, of his successor McCain, and of the Republicans. (We all know the drill: "Iraq, House pages, toe-tapping, the K Street Project, surveillance, torture, chimpyhalliburtoncheneyrumsfeldYEEAGH!") Buchanan isn't one of these reasons because he's not one of those Republicans. Buchanan's been saying "I told you so" since, what, 2002? After 6 years even the Fox News watchers you've just dismissed with so much condescension have to have got it through their skulls that McCain != Buchanan.

Yes, people like Buchanan were a problem for the rightist party in 1992 here; and they're a problem for the Right in Europe now. But they've been shut out of the American mainstream for some time now.

175 hershel  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 12:00:14am

I was going to call Pat an antisemitic motherfucker, but then I realized he's probably never gotten it up in his life.

176 centralvalleyguy  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 12:12:49am

I hate to even take a step on to the ad hominem path, but Pat Buchanan begs for it.

Can one conclude anything else other than the man has some deep, dark, racist secrets? Maybe not so secret. Again, I hate to even go there, and I certainly don't say that lightly.

And, I CANNOT BELIEVE THE GUY WROTE A WHOLE BOOK ABOUT THIS.

Poor little Hitler, backed into a corner? So if Hitler could simply have every German-filled land outside of Germany's 1939 borders, he would've never treated the Slavs like animals? Wouldn't have imprisoned Christians, Jews, political dissidents, etc.? He was forced to do that? And, was Hitler kidding in Mein Kempf? Because it sure seems like he laid it all out pretty clearly and followed that plan.

Here's a very interesting tidbit, that I heard personally at an Alan Keyes rally (you know, the guy who ran again Barack Obama?). At the time, he was running in the Republican presidential primary as the hard-right conservative, and Pat Buchanan was also in the race (so, that must have been the '92 race?). Alan didn't go into to detail, but made it clear that the Buchanan campaign at that time tried to poison Alan's bid by spreading lies about his stand (or actions) regarding abortion. He finished by saying something about how despicable their actions were and he couldn't believe the things that came out of the Buchanan campaign. That was my first warning sign that something was amiss with Mr. Buchanan.

177 aaron's rantblog  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:05:37am

Not just Fox news, but the Townhall radio folk like Hewitt, Medved, Prager, Ingraham, Gallagher, et al all need to boycott Buchanan. Don't give him air time. Don't plug his books. Paint BuchKKKanon as a David Duke-like troll, the right's version of Dhimmi Carter (both hate Israel and swoon about Wahabbis about equally) and that even when Pat is right on some issue, he's wrong.

It saddens me that otherwise decent people like Peggy Noonan admire him.

178 aaron's rantblog  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:20:52am

Recall that Pat Buchanan was on record years ago for questioning the number of Jews his beloved ever-so-wronged-and-provoked Nazis murdered.

Remember Bitburg?

Note that Pat has NEVER come to the defense of anyone who wasn't an accused Nazi or antisemite. His exclusive compassion as a defender has a clear pattern.

Larry Pratt, one of the Buchanan campaign's co-chairmen, had spoken "at meetings organized by white supremacists and militia groups, among them the Aryan Nation."

In 1990 William Buckley, Buchanan's former mentor, wrote a 20,000-word essay on Buchanan that concluded: "I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge" of anti-Semitism.

It was reported by Jonathan Alter in Newsweek [December 23, 1991] Buchanan criticized the U.S. government for expressing regret over its post-war protection of Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie.

In 1985, Buchanan advocated restoring citizenship of ex-Nazi rocket scientist Arthur Rudolph.

In 1987 Buchanan lobbied to stop the deportation of Estonian Nazi war criminal Karl Linnas.

In a March 17, 1990, syndicated column about "Ivan the Terrible", John Demjanjuk, Buchanan wrote that it was impossible for 850,000 Jews to be killed by diesel exhaust fed into the gas chamber at Treblinka. "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody," he wrote. According to Jacob Weisberg in his article "The Heresies of Pat Buchanan" [The New Republic, October 22, 1990], "Buchanan stands by his bizarre claim about the diesel engines but refuses to discuss it on the record. Suffice it to say that he embraces a bolder debunking claim than he is yet willing to endorse in print... Where did he get the anecdote ('proving' his assertion about the diesel)? 'Somebody sent it to me.' " Buchanan's source was almost certainly the July 1988 newsletter of the German American Information and Education Association -- a known Holocaust denial group which quotes extensively from a story of schoolchildren who emerged unharmed after being exposed to diesel fumes while trapped in a train tunnel.

SHAME ON HANNITY AND FOX FOR REPEATEDLY GIVING PAT BUCHANAN A MICROPHONE!

179 Crepuscular Prick  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:28:00am
This kind of far-right garbage is one reason why Barack Obama is ascendant, and if the Republican Party is going to embrace creeps like Buchanan again in a misguided quest for conservative purity, get ready for at least 8 years of leftist government.

Indeed!

180 sparrowlake  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 4:07:24am

Never mind Buchanan himself - he is a pathetic little xenophobe.
The much bigger issue is this : What is it in the psyche of the American right that allows this ugly little turd to remain so popular?

181 itsspideyman  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:02:00am

re: #136 USBeast

USBeast, that was brilliant.

182 itsspideyman  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:06:27am

re: #130 Dr. Shalit

Sadly the truly great journalists like William Shirer are part of a bygone era. In the fouth estate, I mean. Great writers have found other avenues. If Shirer was writing now and covering the war he would have painted his editors into an embarrasing corner by reporting the truth.

183 itsspideyman  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:08:21am

re: #137 J.S.

J.S. Thanks for the link. Brilliant.

184 Roger  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:16:12am

Buchanan in that picture reminds me of Carter.

185 quickjustice  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:38:21am

Buchanan was one of the creepy, "dirty tricks" type of guys who hung around the Nixon White House. Roger Stone, anyone? These guys really are relics of the pre-WWII "paleo-conservatives" who hate immigrants (legal or not), dislike Jews and blacks because of religion and race, deny the Holocaust, are isolationist in their foreign policy, and really believe that they are racially and religiously superior. Sawbuzzmonkey nailed it with his analogy to Father Coughlin.

Ronald Reagan took the GOP away from these creeps. They're still hanging around the fringes, however. And my GOP friends tell me that Buchanan makes trouble precisely to extract payoffs from the GOP to shut him up. Sounds likes he's back in his "fund-raising" cycle, with some help from Fox. Could it be that Murdoch agrees with Buchanan on these issues?

186 guitarguy  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 5:57:35am

"Buchanan and others, for example, fault the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I as too harsh on a defeated Germany and thus an understandable pretext for the rise of the Nazis, who played on German anger and fear."

So...WWII was the result of being 'too harsh' on Germany as punishment.

Awww.

They were punished too harshly...FOR STARTING WWI...!

Then what's the reason for Germany starting WWI...?
What prior 'harsh punishment' justifies (in Pat's mind) WWI...?

This idiot should just get a bumper sticker that reads: 'Honk' if you hate Jews!

What an ass!

187 Terp Mole  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 6:19:41am

If anyone would like to join the cluebatting, a Troofer trolling The Daily Collegian's latest MSA-jihadi propaganda is insisting that President Truman was a mass murderer-- and (naturally) President Bush.

188 paybacktime  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 6:22:31am

Patrick Puchanan probably considers May 7th 1945 a day of mourning. The day that his nazi Germany surrendered unconditionally to the US, UK and Soviet Union.

189 Boston Patriot  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 6:55:01am

News flash: The Left and the Right are both clueless. The principle of individual rights is lost on both of them.

190 paybacktime  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 6:56:23am

re: #72 nyc redneck

I've made some modifications and it works.

ISLAMOFASCISM was killing everyone IT could who didn't measure up to ITS insane idea for the perfect DHIMMI. jews, gypsies, poles, catholics, gays , hungarians, and NON-ISLAMOFASCISTS who questioned ISLAMOFASCISM.
ISLAMOFASCISM was eventually going to come for us.
there was no way ISLAMOFASCISM would have been satisfied w/ ruling only europe . buchanan is truly demented.

191 Land Shark  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 7:34:11am

Pat Buchanan's monumental ignorance about what caused World War II is bad enough, but what makes it worst is that so few people seem to know enough to realize how wrong he is. He says, for example, that Churchill backed Hitler into a corner? Does he even know it was Neville Chamberlain who was British Prime Minister when Hitler attacked Poland to launch WWII? Does he know about the promises to Chamberlain Hitler broke when he went ahead and annexed all of Checkoslovakia after he got the Sudetenland at Munich? Has he ever read any of Mein Kampf where Hitler clearly articulated his plans a decade before assuming power in 1933?

A book a strongly recommend to those who want to learn more about this from someone who was actually there is William Shirer's epic "The Rise And Fall of The Third Reich." An essential part of any reading about Nazi Germany

As a right wing conservative, I'm offended this ignorant, blithering idiot Buchanan is considered one of us.

192 cptham  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 7:52:39am

I blame Pat Buchannan for 8 years of Clinton rule. Jack ass!

193 dmjung  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 8:29:37am

I am becoming convinced that politics should not be viewed as a linear spectrum from left to right, but a circle (or perhaps a sphere if you want to get complicated.) Meeting at the bottom is the fascist-socialist-extreme-left/right ideologies. At the top could be libertarian-conservative-left/right thought...travel down the left/right wings or sides of the circle/sphere as desired for increasing amounts of government/social control and interference.

194 crosspatch  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 9:03:40am

"if the Republican Party is going to embrace creeps like Buchanan again in a misguided quest for conservative purity, get ready for at least 8 years of leftist government"

Amen. When you get to the extremes on both left and right, policy is driven by emotion and "feeling" rather than being a well thought out sustainable plan. The more emotional a person is, the more likely a person is a political extremist too. Chances are that pretty much everything a highly emotional person does is extreme. Including their politics.

195 Alibaba  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 9:32:42am

I lost respect for Peggy Noonan a while ago. Why on earth do people such as Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham invite this wacko onto their shows? Even Monica Crowley calsl him a "dear friend".re: #177 aaron's rantblog

196 Alibaba  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 9:34:59am

re: #169 Charles
When Buchanan left the GOP a few years ago ( I think it was in 200O) John McCain said, KICK HIM OUT AND CLOSE THE DOOR - while Sean Hannity was begging him to stay!

197 Charles  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:07:09pm

re: #174 Zimriel

Yes, people like Buchanan were a problem for the rightist party in 1992 here; and they're a problem for the Right in Europe now. But they've been shut out of the American mainstream for some time now.

Right, they've been "shut out of the mainstream."

That's why Pat Buchanan shows up on all the cable channels and Sunday morning talk shows.

198 quickjustice  Fri, Jun 6, 2008 1:19:26pm

re: #197 Charles

Offer Buchanan some cash, Charles. He'll disappear for the duration of the campaign season! ;-)

199 eclectic infidel  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:28:29am

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

An astute observation.

200 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:51:04am
201 Blue Chip  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:21:21pm

test


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

  • Loading...

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

Follow Lizardoid on Twitter
Follow Charles on True/Slant

 Frank says:

You drank beer, you played golf, you watched football - WE EVOLVED!