LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

  

Link address:
Link title:
Description: 
Remaining:

Friday Early Morning Open

Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:17:22 am PDT

When neither their property nor their honor is touched, the majority of men live content.

Niccolo Machiavelli

851 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 BignJames  6/06/08 3:20:45 am reply quote

Don't forget the remote.

2 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:22:34 am reply quote

open *this*!

3 littleoldlady  6/06/08 3:23:02 am reply quote

And the beer...

Good day, ALL!™

4 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:25:29 am reply quote

re: #3 littleoldlady

And the beer...

Good day, ALL!™

good day, bad day, it's all the same day man.....

5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 3:28:43 am reply quote

You know, RR was The Great Communicator.

We'll end up calling Obama The Great Clarifier.

Morning kiddie poos!

6 LeftJustAintRight  6/06/08 3:28:57 am reply quote

Obama Carter 08 !

7 Killian Bundy  6/06/08 3:31:17 am reply quote
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said Thursday that he would welcome the death penalty

/death by freefall, give him a few minutes to think about it

8 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:31:42 am reply quote

I'm quite content.

hi!

9 BignJames  6/06/08 3:32:21 am reply quote

re: #7 Killian Bundy

Push him off......say the Sears Tower.

10 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:33:08 am reply quote

re: #9 BignJames

Push him off......say the Sears Tower.

Nah, how about the new "Islam tallest building in world"
aka Burj Dubai.

push him off that.

11 Neo Con since 9-11  6/06/08 3:33:27 am reply quote

night all. My cat, Bob, insists I get a couple hours sleep so I can safely drive my bobcat tomorrow so I can bring home tuna.

12 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:33:35 am reply quote

re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You know, RR was The Great Communicator.

We'll end up calling Obama The Great Clarifier.

Morning kiddie poos!

i'm thinking "Lying POS" will roll of the tongue easier and with less retching.... %-)

/and be more accurate too!

13 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:34:19 am reply quote

re: #11 Neo Con since 9-11

night all. My cat, Bob, insists I get a couple hours sleep so I can safely drive my bobcat tomorrow so I can bring home tuna.

Yet Teach a cat to fish.....


/snicker @ the thought of teaching a cat anything....

14 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:36:07 am reply quote

re: #7 Killian Bundy

/death by freefall, give him a few minutes to think about it

i like my idea from a few threads back: death by nursing home.....

/massive organ failure, caused by sepsis, induced by MRSA from untreated bed sores and an indwelling catheter.

15 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:36:48 am reply quote

re: #13 Hengineer

Yet Teach a cat to fish.....


/snicker @ the thought of teaching a cat anything....

they teach us.

/but we never learn %-)

16 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 3:36:50 am reply quote

Mornin' all. Another hot day in store -- low 90s.

Watched "Tora, Tora, Tora" with the boys last night. I'd forgotten how good it is.

17 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:37:39 am reply quote

re: #16 Lucius Septimius

Mornin' all. Another hot day in store -- low 90s.

Watched "Tora, Tora, Tora" with the boys last night. I'd forgotten how good it is.

I'm afraid we've woken a sleeping giant.


/nuff said

18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 3:37:48 am reply quote

re: #10 Hengineer

Nah, how about the new "Islam tallest building in world"
aka Burj Dubai.

push him off that.

Hell no.
Push him off a twelve foot wall; then march him back up to the top of the wall.
Push him off again. "Oh he sprained an ankle".
March him back up; push him off again, "Oh, he broke a wrist."
March him back up, etc.

Tonight we're gonna party like its 799.

19 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:38:35 am reply quote

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hell no.
Push him off a twelve foot wall; then march him back up to the top of the wall.
Push him off again. "Oh he sprained an ankle".
March him back up; push him off again, "Oh, he broke a wrist."
March him back up, etc.

Tonight we're gonna party like its 799.

We going to do that, might as well have an old-fashioned stoning...

20 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:43:14 am reply quote

re: #19 Hengineer

We going to do that, might as well have an old-fashioned stoning...

feed him nothing but MRE's and 2 canteens of water a day.

/he'll explode

21 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 3:43:40 am reply quote

re: #19 Hengineer

We going to do that, might as well have an old-fashioned stoning...

"I got a rock."
Charlie Brown (Trick or Treating with friends on Halloween special)

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 3:44:38 am reply quote

re: #19 Hengineer

Too cruel? To barbaric? Too Muslim?

23 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:45:43 am reply quote

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Too cruel? To barbaric? Too Muslim?

Nah, feed him a soup, then later tell him that it was made from pork gravy...

24 mikeinmd  6/06/08 3:46:02 am reply quote

re: #7 Killian Bundy

/death by freefall, give him a few minutes to think about it

Could use him for target practice while he's falling. We can hit satellites, and there not much bigger than a womp rat.

25 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 3:46:08 am reply quote

re: #17 Hengineer

/nuff said

I think the giant needs to wake up again. It's been snoozing for way too long.

26 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:48:22 am reply quote

re: #21 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"I got a rock."
Charlie Brown (Trick or Treating with friends on Halloween special)

how about we keelhaul the bastiges?

/get some w*rk out of Henniger %-)

27 redc1c4  6/06/08 3:49:14 am reply quote

gotta go to bed..... 2H6 will be getting up soon.

/whoops! %-)

28 Dar ul Harbarian  6/06/08 3:49:41 am reply quote

LOL
Thinking about the future

CHICAGO—As the 2008 presidential election draws closer, Democrat Barack Obama has reportedly been working tirelessly with his top political strategists to perfect his looking-off-into-the-future pose, which many believe is vital to the success of the Illinois senator's campaign.

When performed correctly, the pose involves Obama standing upright with his back arched and his chest thrust out, his shoulders positioned 1.3 feet apart and opened slightly at a 14-degree angle, and his eyes transfixed on a predetermined point between 500 and 600 yards away. Advisers say this creates the illusion that Obama is looking forward to a bright future, while the downturned corners of his lips indicate that he acknowledges the problems of the present.

29 Buster Bunny  6/06/08 3:50:26 am reply quote

Poor ol Machievelli

Nice guy .. pissed off some Italian stooge called Medici and he's had the reputation of a badass ever since.

Shows you .. good intentions and politics have been blurred for an awful long time.

/Bongiorno Bunny

30 eon  6/06/08 3:52:30 am reply quote

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Too cruel? To barbaric? Too Muslim?

Morning, Lizards.

I'm sort of a traditionalist, here. If he wants to be "martyred", fine. I say we do it the traditional Islamic way, as depicted in Tom Clancy's The Sum Of All Fears. Namely, behead him in the town square, at noon, with a single stroke of a very sharp sword.

Then cremate the remains and scatter them to the winds.

As I understand it, this would mean that at best, he would arrive in Paradise looking rather like the Headless Horseman. More likely, he would arrive there looking more like something you would compost your flowers with. Either way, he will have no use for any virgins.

As for "martyrdom", again quoting from Clancy:



"Martyrs all have the same thing in common. They're dead."

- Jack Ryan


cheers

eon

31 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 3:52:48 am reply quote

re: #29 Buster Bunny

"Wicked Nick" is how he's referred to in our house; my Lovely Bride is a Machiavelli scholar, which means dinner time is always an adventure.

32 yochanan  6/06/08 3:53:11 am reply quote

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

this is a puff piece but even it has info that is harmful to obama

33 mikeinmd  6/06/08 3:54:00 am reply quote

BTW, Google found time out of their busy schedule to celebrate Diego Velazquez...

34 Nevergiveup  6/06/08 3:54:17 am reply quote

re: #28 Dar ul Harbarian

LOL
Thinking about the future

It warms my heart to know Obama is concentrating on " National Security" issues.

35 offendi  6/06/08 3:54:45 am reply quote

The trial of that fat slob Sheik-ie is just what we need to remind the country that the election is not just about the price of gas.

36 Render  6/06/08 3:56:01 am reply quote

I'd prefer to keep the bastard locked away in solitary Supermax obscurity for the rest of his life with no possibility of parole.

NO
SUNLIGHT,
R

37 Nevergiveup  6/06/08 3:56:04 am reply quote

re: #32 yochanan

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

this is a puff piece but even it has info that is harmful to obama

Your in Chicago right? Can't sleep? I'd be sleeping like a rock if my team were playing like the Cubs.

38 offendi  6/06/08 3:56:39 am reply quote

Grant his wish, but rub him down with pig fat before he goes.

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 3:56:39 am reply quote

re: #35 offendi

How much weight did he gain in "Club Gitmo"?

40 Hengineer  6/06/08 3:57:37 am reply quote

re: #26 redc1c4

how about we keelhaul the bastiges?

/get some w*rk out of Henniger %-)

haven't seen that yet, but we could start it back up again.

we could hang him from a yardarm

41 offendi  6/06/08 3:58:08 am reply quote

re: #39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How much weight did he gain in "Club Gitmo"?

Just some water weight from the "boarding". Hopefully.

42 LeftJustAintRight  6/06/08 3:59:03 am reply quote

Listening to Quinn & Rose this morning
Quinn seems to think Hillary is not finished Hussein Obama
Because she only suspended her campaign and still controlls her delegates
Hmmmmmm ?

43 Fredlike  6/06/08 3:59:07 am reply quote

Morning all, Hot Today, Hotter this weekend. Well at least I got my AC in the van fixed.

Been reading Liberal Fascism by Jonah.Goldberg (got it along with Moment of Truth by Michael Yon, also a good book). He really presents a good case for the existence of the Fascist left, I have not finished it yet so I don't think Barry is in it but lots of the things he says really fits the model. The amount of government control Wilson and Roosevelt put in place makes Bush seem like the good fairy. Roosevelt had a heavy thumb on the population well before WWII. One story was very informative, after they imposed price controls they convicted a tailor of pressing a suit for 35 cents instead of the required 40 cents, he got 7 months.

44 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 3:59:43 am reply quote

re: #32 yochanan

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

this is a puff piece but even it has info that is harmful to obama

Unfortunately the people caught up in the aura won't care. The average Obama supporter is so enamored of the image that they will not look to see the man behind it.

45 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:00:24 am reply quote

re: #43 Fredlike

Morning all, Hot Today, Hotter this weekend. Well at least I got my AC in the van fixed.

Been reading Liberal Fascism by Jonah.Goldberg (got it along with Moment of Truth by Michael Yon, also a good book). He really presents a good case for the existence of the Fascist left, I have not finished it yet so I don't think Barry is in it but lots of the things he says really fits the model. The amount of government control Wilson and Roosevelt put in place makes Bush seem like the good fairy. Roosevelt had a heavy thumb on the population well before WWII. One story was very informative, after they imposed price controls they convicted a tailor of pressing a suit for 35 cents instead of the required 40 cents, he got 7 months.

There is just as much of a fascist right as a fascist left.

Granted we haven't had one in power here as much as say, Afghanistan, but the Taliban was VERY much a fascist right, as theocracies are.

46 goddessoftheclassroom  6/06/08 4:00:50 am reply quote

re: #29 Buster Bunny

Poor ol Machievelli

Nice guy .. pissed off some Italian stooge called Medici and he's had the reputation of a badass ever since.

Shows you .. good intentions and politics have been blurred for an awful long time.

/Bongiorno Bunny

The Teacher:
A Riff on Machiavelli's The Prince,
Replacing Prince with Teacher, His with Her, State with Classroom, and Men with Students
By goddessoftheclassroom

I say that every Teacher should desire to be accounted merciful and not cruel. Nevertheless, she should be on her guard against the abuse of this quality of mercy. Cesare Borgia was reputed cruel, yet his cruelty restored Romagna, united it, and brought it to order and obedience; so that if we look at things in their true light, it will be seen that he was in reality far more merciful than the people of Florence, who, to avoid the imputation of cruelty, suffered Pistoja to be torn to pieces by factions.

A Teacher should therefore disregard the reproach of being thought cruel where it enables her to keep her students united and obedient. For she who quells disorder by a very few signal examples will in the end be more merciful than she who from too great leniency permits things to take their course and so to result in rapine and bloodshed; for these hurt the whole Classroom, whereas the severities of the Teacher injure individuals only.

And for a new Teacher, of all others, it is impossible to escape a name for cruelty, since new Classrooms are full of dangers. Wherefore Virgil, by the mouth of Dido, excuses the harshness of her reign on the plea that it was new, saying: A fate unkind, and newness in my reign Compel me this to guard a wide domain Nevertheless, the new Teacher should not be too ready of belief, nor too easily set in motion; not should she herself be the first to raise alarms; but should so temper prudence with kindliness that too great confidence in others shall not throw her off her guard, nor groundless distrust render her insupportable.

And here comes the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both; but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. For of students it may generally be affirmed that they are thankless, fickle, false, studious to avoid danger, greedy of gain, devoted to you while you are able to confer benefits upon them, and ready, as I said before, while danger is distant, to shed their blood, and sacrifice their property, their lives, and their children for you; but in the hour of need they turn against you.

The Teacher, therefore, who without otherwise securing herself builds wholly on their professions is undone. For the friendships which we buy with a price, and do not gain by greatness and nobility of character, though they may be fairly earned are not made good, but fail us when we have occasion to use them

47 godfrey  6/06/08 4:00:53 am reply quote

Ah, a Friday morning. Good morning, lizards. Speaking of being contented with untouched property, it looks like Ireland might vote "no" on the Lisbon Treaty EU Constitution. "More taxes, less power" is the anti-EU message. Funny: they sound like the main planks of Obama's platform.

48 yochanan  6/06/08 4:00:54 am reply quote

re: #37 Nevergiveup

Your in Chicago right? Can't sleep? I'd be sleeping like a rock if my team were playing like the Cubs.

i want the cubs to make it to the w.s. and then get beaten by the CHICAGO WHITE SOXS.

49 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:01:42 am reply quote

re: #48 yochanan

i want the cubs to make it to the w.s. and then get beaten by the CHICAGO WHITE SOXS.

Could have guessed that if you're a SunTimes reader.

50 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:02:05 am reply quote

re: #47 godfrey

Ah, a Friday morning. Good morning, lizards. Speaking of being contented with untouched property, it looks like Ireland might vote "no" on the Lisbon Treaty EU Constitution. "More taxes, less power" is the anti-EU message. Funny: they sound like the main planks of Obama's platform.

Everybody seems to want the benefits of taxation without having to pay for it.

51 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:02:22 am reply quote

re: #46 goddessoftheclassroom

Mornin' Goddess.

I've always thought I'd like to rewrite the Prince as a parenting manual. "Machiavellian Mommy" or some such.

52 000G  6/06/08 4:02:49 am reply quote

honor shmonor

53 yochanan  6/06/08 4:03:02 am reply quote

[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]

BLAGO will be tossed under the bus to help obama other wise some will go after obama for tony rezko

54 Killian Bundy  6/06/08 4:04:26 am reply quote

re: #36 Render

I'd prefer to keep the bastard locked away in solitary Supermax obscurity for the rest of his life with no possibility of parole.

NO
SUNLIGHT,
R

/give him a roommate

55 eon  6/06/08 4:04:49 am reply quote

re: #28 Dar ul Harbarian

We're working on the squinting

Gee, Clint Eastwood had that down cold forty years ago.

He could at least go for a Jimmy Stewart "stern but resolute" look, like in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington.

Of course, the main danger is that at some point, he'll lapse into the "upthrust arm and arched back while screaming about 'Czechoslovakia Israel is part of Minehead Gaza, already!'" look, sort of like Mr. Hilter.

/old Monty Python routines never die- they just look less and less fanciful

The problem with the Onion is, how do you parody people who, in real life, insist on being strange and expect you to pretend not to notice?

/oh, and make them President, too

cheers

eon

56 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:05:13 am reply quote

re: #54 Killian Bundy

/give him a roommate

/good ol' boy from Texas who is in for hate crimes (preferably of the KKK variety)

57 yochanan  6/06/08 4:05:21 am reply quote

re: #54 Killian Bundy

a big horny roommate.

58 abolitionist  6/06/08 4:05:29 am reply quote

re: #43 Fredlike

... Roosevelt had a heavy thumb on the population well before WWII. One story was very informative, after they imposed price controls they convicted a tailor of pressing a suit for 35 cents instead of the required 40 cents, he got 7 months.

Somehow I had the notion price controls involved upper limits on prices. I can only imagine some prison warden put in a request for a taylor, and the requisition was fulfilled.

59 godfrey  6/06/08 4:06:22 am reply quote

re: #51 Lucius Septimius

I always thought that if the Prince did all that Machiavelli says he should do, he would surely soon be found out and murdered. Was Machiavelli goading this on? His Discourses are all about republics and civic virtues ... was he really anti- Prince?

60 goddessoftheclassroom  6/06/08 4:06:34 am reply quote

re: #51 Lucius Septimius

Mornin' Goddess.

I've always thought I'd like to rewrite the Prince as a parenting manual. "Machiavellian Mommy" or some such.

{Lucius Septimius}

When I was a new teacher, I'll admit that I wanted to be loved, and I was sometimes too "nice" rather than "just."

61 eon  6/06/08 4:10:24 am reply quote

re: #42 LeftJustAintRight

Listening to Quinn & Rose this morning
Quinn seems to think Hillary is not finished Hussein Obama
Because she only suspended her campaign and still controlls her delegates
Hmmmmmm ?

She's already got her fallback plan ready, namely for the convention.

Best guess- she'll hold onto enough delegates to prevent a first-ballot nomination. Then, when delegates are released for the second, offer a "compromise", like (Eugene) McCarthy in Chicago in '68. That "compromise" being herself with the Obameister as her running mate.

Meanwhile, in the streets outside, every kook and zany to the left of Ned Lamont will be busy trying to turn Denver into Woodstock- with extra Molotov Cocktails for everybody.

Call it "Days of Rage- The Next Generation".

/anybody else making popcorn?


cheers

eon

62 Fredlike  6/06/08 4:16:11 am reply quote

re: #45 Hengineer

The main theme of the book is that all Fascists are in fact left wing. Hitler, Mussolini, FDR, Wilson were all very much lefties. The Fascists were called right wing by the communist because even though they were both socialist, national versus internationalist, they may have been slightly to the right.

Most Islamic regimes are very much modeled on either the national socialist or communists model. The exceptions are the theocracies like the Taliban and Iran, but even there they are not typical of the US right which stands for personnel freedom and smaller government. In practice they follow the left wing ideal of government control of everything (this assumes they are in power of course)

I'm not going to be able to rewrite the whole book here and I haven't finished it yet. One thing to remember though is that after WWII Fascism become identified with anti-semitism and other evils. Prior to the war it was seen as a different model of government not evil. Goldberg calls the US version nice fascism in that there was very little brutality involve, and not the total rejection of christianity that was seen in Europe.

The collective, the nanny state, it takes a village, all very good fascist themes.

Off to work now, have fun all.

63 Fredlike  6/06/08 4:17:56 am reply quote

re: #58 abolitionist

They were fighting deflation so the price controls were for minimum prices.

Didn't work any better than the Nixon upper bound price controls as you might expect.

64 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:18:24 am reply quote

re: #60 goddessoftheclassroom

{Lucius Septimius}

When I was a new teacher, I'll admit that I wanted to be loved, and I was sometimes too "nice" rather than "just."

Me too -- actually what I wanted was for them to share my passion. I had to learn that not everyone will, and that you have to pitch things differently to different people; you can't present an idea once or in only one way, but multiple ways. I also learned to draw on my background in theater and stand-up -- I can work a crowd pretty well and am a good story teller.

Sometimes you have to trick people into thinking.

65 rightside  6/06/08 4:19:52 am reply quote

Morning Lizards!

66 eon  6/06/08 4:20:52 am reply quote

Well, like Fredlike, I have to run, too.

Have a great day, Lizards.

cheers

eon

67 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:22:10 am reply quote

re: #62 Fredlike

The main theme of the book is that all Fascists are in fact left wing. Hitler, Mussolini, FDR, Wilson were all very much lefties. The Fascists were called right wing by the communist because even though they were both socialist, national versus internationalist, they may have been slightly to the right.

Most Islamic regimes are very much modeled on either the national socialist or communists model. The exceptions are the theocracies like the Taliban and Iran, but even there they are not typical of the US right which stands for personnel freedom and smaller government. In practice they follow the left wing ideal of government control of everything (this assumes they are in power of course)

I'm not going to be able to rewrite the whole book here and I haven't finished it yet. One thing to remember though is that after WWII Fascism become identified with anti-semitism and other evils. Prior to the war it was seen as a different model of government not evil. Goldberg calls the US version nice fascism in that there was very little brutality involve, and not the total rejection of christianity that was seen in Europe.

The collective, the nanny state, it takes a village, all very good fascist themes.

Off to work now, have fun all.

My point is that there are multiple kinds of "rights". There is the Religious Right, which is actually almost fascist, in that it does wish to control more, to "nanny-state" people from doing "bad things" and then the rest of the "Right" which IS for smaller government.

I do concede that most of the most famous fascists of modern era who've come to power HAVE been of the left-wing variety, that doesn't mean that there are no such thing as right-wing fascists.

Think of politics as a 2-d instead of 1-d scale. Left-Right is liberal-conservative, and Up-Down is Fascist-Anarchist.

One can be Right wing, and still want MORE government (cough)....Huckabee ....(cough)

68 abolitionist  6/06/08 4:22:57 am reply quote

re: #63 Fredlike

Thanks.

In other news, the times they are a changing, and you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Guess who's endorsing Obama

69 mikeinmd  6/06/08 4:23:59 am reply quote

Anti-crime `street teams' to mobilize in St. Louis

Plans also call for partnering with other groups to mentor young people, and regular neighborhood summits.

How long before CAIR inserts their Ameriphobic probiscus into this program ?

70 Render  6/06/08 4:24:19 am reply quote

re: #54 Killian Bundy

Terrible Tommy Silverstein comes to mind.

NON
CONTACT,
R

71 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:24:43 am reply quote

re: #59 godfrey

I always thought that if the Prince did all that Machiavelli says he should do, he would surely soon be found out and murdered. Was Machiavelli goading this on? His Discourses are all about republics and civic virtues ... was he really anti- Prince?

Yes and no.

Machiavelli's idea is a Prince who establishes a Republic -- the four "founders" he discusses (Moses, Cyrus, Theseus, and Romulus) all did that to an extent. But you need an initial lawgiver, someone to create and initially enforce the new modes and orders (i.e., laws, customs, social structures, governing institutions) around which the state and society is organized. A prince -- like Moses -- who can create particularly effective modes and orders can create a state which will endure in spite of whatever is thrown against it. His comments about the Church, an institution he both admires and abhors, are instructive -- they have orders grown old with religion; they do not enforce them yet people obey, they do not govern and yet people remain under them. The modes and orders of Christianity may not provide the best foundation for a state, but they are amazingly effective.

As for the persona of the Prince, I would suggest that for Machiavelli, the republican citizen must have the virtues of the prince; in a polity where power -- executive and legislative -- is shared out among the citizens, the citizens must be able and willing to take that burden seriously, which means that they must become princes themselves lest they lose their liberty.

72 goddessoftheclassroom  6/06/08 4:25:21 am reply quote

re: #64 Lucius Septimius

Me too -- actually what I wanted was for them to share my passion. I had to learn that not everyone will, and that you have to pitch things differently to different people; you can't present an idea once or in only one way, but multiple ways. I also learned to draw on my background in theater and stand-up -- I can work a crowd pretty well and am a good story teller.

Sometimes you have to trick people into thinking.

Absolutely. I love throwing out statements contrary to the conventional wisdom and seeing their looks of shock at my blasphemy. For instance, one student said something along the lines of "everything is relative"; I shot back with, "No, it isn't. There is right and wrong, good and evil, and actions fall into one of those two categories. You can rationalize an action, you can explain mitigating circumstances, but it doesn't change the nature of the action itself."

A terrific discussion followed...

With junior high kids, I try to make my class something they look forward to; if I can create a positive atmosphere, it helps break down some of the resistance.

A few years ago, a kid told me, "I really hate English, but I love your class."

73 Killian Bundy  6/06/08 4:25:51 am reply quote

Military shoots down missile in test off Hawaii

The U.S. military intercepted a ballistic missile Thursday in the first such sea-based test since a Navy cruiser shot down an errant satellite earlier this year.

The military fired the target, a Scud-like missile with a range of a few hundred miles, from a decommissioned amphibious assault ship near Hawaii's island of Kauai.

The USS Lake Erie, based at Pearl Harbor, fired two interceptor missiles that shot down the target in its final seconds of flight about 12 miles above the Pacific Ocean.

/kiss this technology goodbye

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 4:26:46 am reply quote

re: #68 abolitionist

I remember back when all of the folk singers, rock and rollers, and Hollywood types were shillin' for the Bushes, Dole, Nixon, Ford, Eisenhower, etc. When did that change?

75 Killian Bundy  6/06/08 4:28:06 am reply quote

re: #70 Render

Terrible Tommy Silverstein comes to mind.

NON
CONTACT,
R

Ooh, Aryan Brotherhood.

/nice touch

76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/06/08 4:28:12 am reply quote

re: #72 goddessoftheclassroom

You are going to be a helluva a Drama Teacher.

77 goddessoftheclassroom  6/06/08 4:28:22 am reply quote

re: #65 rightside

Morning Lizards!

{rightside}

Good morning!

78 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:28:45 am reply quote

Interesting Political Quiz that looks at various DIFFERENT ways you can view things.
[Link: politicalquiz.net...]


The following are your scores. They are based on a gradual range of 0 to 12. For instance, a Conservative/Progressive score of 3 and 0 will both yield a result of social conservative, yet 0 would be an extreme conservative and 3 a moderate conservative

Conservative/Progressive score: 5
You are a social moderate. You think the progressive movement is overall well meaning, but sometimes it goes too far. On issues like abortion and affirmative action, you see the negatives of both extremes on the issue. You probably value religion, but at the same time you think it should still stay separate from the government

Capitalist Purist/Social Capitalist score: 0
You're a Capitalist Purist. You believe that the market should be completely free, and that the invisible hand of the market will make sure that the people get what they want and will do it in the most efficient way possible. You believe in small government, less taxes, and more privatization.

Libertarian/Authoritarian score: 7
You're a Moderate. You think that we all have certain inalienable rights that must be protected, but that sometimes laws need to be made to protect the majority's lives or quality of lives. You might think that the 2nd amendment isn't necessary anymore because letting everyone a gun is extremely dangerous to the community. You might also be against illegal drug use or public pornography because of its possible harmful effects to society.

Pacifist/Militarist score: 9
You're a Militarist. You believe that since the United States has so much power in the world, it has a responsibility to keep the world safe. You think that if the US does not exert its power in the world, it may eventually lose its power, and that we can not look weak in the face of terrorists, and must take them out where they live.

Overall, you would most likely fit into the category of Republican

79 buzzsawmonkey  6/06/08 4:29:06 am reply quote

Good morning, folks. I am going to shamelessly pimp my post #635 in the prior thread, because I believe that the three points therein are worth underscoring, and because I would like to amplify point #3.

Obama's speech to AIPAC said little about Israel, and little about Israel and America. He was trying to sell his personal commitment to Israel, not America's--but to do so he referenced, not his supposed commitment to Israel, but supposed bonds between blacks and Jews.

This is disturbing not only because the "bond between blacks and Jews" which he referenced relied on the Civil Rights Movement era, which he did not personally experience, and because those "bonds" were frayed and in many cases destroyed precisely because of the actions and attitudes of people like the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. It is disturbing because, by referencing those "bonds," Obama made clear that he sees the entire issue of Israel not through the lens of national policy and interest, but through the prism of race. He is viewing the US/Israel relationship through his personal racial experience and attitudes, and his personal feelings towards Jews as a people, not towards Israel as a nation.

This must trouble anyone who considers the attitudes towards Jews and Israel espoused and inculcated by Wright and his ideological brethern, or who considers that even a conservative like Condoleezza Rice has been led by the ideologies of American domestic racial politics over the last 40 years to see and feel an emotional bond between American blacks and the "Palestinians." It suggests that any actions taken by Israel on behalf of its own physical safety, integrity, or security will be viewed not as such, as actions taken by a nation concerned with its own survival, but will be seen by an Obama presidency through the distorting emotional prism of racial identity politics and responded to accordingly.

Obama's subsequent flip-flop on Jerusalem, troubling as it is, is less disturbing than the way in which he spoke before AIPAC when he was attempting with all his might to be reassuring. Even his call for a "contiguous Palestinian state," which itself raises disturbing signals, is less ominous than the fact that his basis for claiming that he is a supporter of Israel was couched almost entirely in personal, domestic, and racial terms.

80 laZardo  6/06/08 4:30:35 am reply quote

re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When the Cold War ended and now that we were the only superpower, we should only use our powers for good.

/"good" being very narrowly defined in this case.

//Such as GOOD EVENING Y'ALL.

81 mikeinmd  6/06/08 4:31:10 am reply quote

For GOTC :

Can you spell 'education?' This school can't ...

WESTLAKE, Ohio (AP) -- A Cleveland-area principal says he's embarrassed his students got proof of their "educaiton" on their high school diplomas.

82 goddessoftheclassroom  6/06/08 4:31:15 am reply quote

re: #76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are going to be a helluva a Drama Teacher.

(blushing) Why, thank you!

I've got to run, Lizards--inservice workshops to write new curriculum...

83 zionista  6/06/08 4:31:40 am reply quote

I Chose Against University of California Irvine Because of Hate Speech
I Chose Against University of California Irvine Because of Hate Speech
Spencer Morgan June 2nd 2008

Poughkeepsie, NY
I am a student in college and have been hearing many stories about Israel and America on the campus that make my skin crawl.
I was accepted to University California Irvine, but decided against it. I heard Allyson Rowen Taylor speak at a Chabad event and she discussed the issues on the campus to a room filled with parents who had no idea what was going on in the public arena. After reading about UCI online, and speaking with others who have seen the campus antics, I decided to go elsewhere, not only for reasons of the intense hatred of Jews at UCI, but because I wanted to be free of the "apartheid walls" and the vitriol of speakers who create hate with my fellow students. I searched for a campus with high academics where study was a priority, and the influence of the MSU was minimal if not absent. While there are issues at my campus, they are tiny compared to the issues of the UCI campus.
Thank you for opening the eyes of others who have no idea what is happening to our universities.
Spencer Morgan is a member of the Vassar Class of 2011.
[Link: www.thecuttingedgenews.com...]

[Link: shariahfinancewatch.wordpress.com...]

84 yochanan  6/06/08 4:31:45 am reply quote

re: #49 Lucius Septimius

the sun times is a bird cage liner now was a decent paper when Black ran it.

the tribune is tinged with anti semitism sometimes right in the open

85 rightside  6/06/08 4:33:00 am reply quote

re: #77 goddessoftheclassroom

{goddess}

86 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:34:30 am reply quote

Mr. Rightside!

hullo the house!

87 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:35:46 am reply quote

re: #79 buzzsawmonkey

Here, here.

Obama is frightening; it is only the shortest of steps from "identity politics" to the worst excesses of Totalitarianism.

88 JamesTKirk  6/06/08 4:36:39 am reply quote

re: #10 Hengineer

Nah, how about the new "Islam tallest building in world"
aka Burj Dubai.

push him off that.

Imagine the car swarm around whatever vehicle he impacts.

89 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:36:57 am reply quote

re: #84 yochanan

the sun times is a bird cage liner now was a decent paper when Black ran it.

the tribune is tinged with anti semitism sometimes right in the open

A shame too; I used to like the Tribune, but can't read it any more.

The SunTimes was perfect for reading on the train.

90 Lucius Septimius  6/06/08 4:37:40 am reply quote

re: #88 JamesTKirk

Imagine the car swarm around whatever vehicle he impacts.

It would be all over the news as "proof" of an Israeli missile attack.

91 JamesTKirk  6/06/08 4:38:31 am reply quote

re: #14 redc1c4

Let's not get too ghoulish. You'll just let the HuffPos try to draw a flase moral equivalence between us and the way they pray for the painful death of Americans.

Lethal injection is fine. Anything more will just increase his martyr cachet.

92 JamesTKirk  6/06/08 4:39:04 am reply quote

"flase" is morally equivalent to "false". PIMF.

93 yochanan  6/06/08 4:39:15 am reply quote

re: #89 Lucius Septimius

the trib has always had a problem with anti semitism in the past i used to be a consative paper now they are trying to be the chicago version of the new york times.

94 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:39:33 am reply quote

re: #90 Lucius Septimius

It would be all over the news as "proof" of an Israeli missile attack.

Complete with photoshopped pictures with extra darkened smoke after the car crashes subside.

95 buzzsawmonkey  6/06/08 4:39:43 am reply quote

re: #92 JamesTKirk

"flase" is morally equivalent to "false". PIMF.

It's just a flase you're going through.

96 Hengineer  6/06/08 4:41:25 am reply quote

[Link: www.quiz2d.com...]

Another 2-d political quiz calls me a "small government centrist"

Your views call roughly the same amount of government with just a bit more liberty than we currently have in the United States today. Your views are probably best served by a nearly equal mix of Democrats and Republicans in the legislatures, as long as you choose the correct Democrats and Republicans.

Or, if you want to make sure government shrinks a bit, you could throw a few Libertarians into the mix. But just a few. The Libertarian Party calls for radical cuts in government far beyond what you want. Think of a tub of cold bathwater. To get it warm enough to be comfortable, you can add scalding hot water to bring the temperature up to ideal.

Approximately 10% of the takers of this quiz scored in this area, 36% for all within the centrist circle.

97 laZardo  6/06/08 4:41:45 am reply quote

re: #90 Lucius Septimius

Or a secret Mossad operation trying to destabilize the whole region.

98 laZardo  6/06/08 4:42:56 am reply quote