Put on your waders lizards. The fascist will be here any minute.

Learn from history: avoid fascists, and those you agree with them.

Charles -

Pray Tell - What Should Europe Do? With ALL Due Respect. My response would be to restrict Immigration form MUSLIM MAJORITY Nations and to encourage "indigenous" reproduction. If all 'y'all have a BETTER IDEA - Please Share.

-S-

OT (sorry)

Just read some transcript of Hillary's swan song....

"Today as I suspend my campaign..."

When is "Suspend" the same as "end"?

Waiting for that BIG other shoe to drop on Obama.
Should be about 3 days before Denver...

Scarcely had the French Parliament transposed [into the French Constitution] three directives from the EU on the fight against discrimination, than the European Parliament adopted a resolution calling on the European Commission to decree a new directive, this one against all discrimination, direct and indirect, and adding to its catalogue the designation of "multiple discrimination."

Well- I can see how that would be a problem for mr le pen- makes it much harder to discriminate against the Jews, doesn't it, you Holocaust denying scumbag?

Charles,

How about some hate mail updates from our "teammates" at Vlaams Belang?

re: #6 AmeriDan

Charles,

How about some hate mail updates from our "teammates" at Vlaams Belang?

"A-D" -

"Vlaams Belang" is not exactly a 'teammate' - at best like Vichy France.

-S-

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

Pray Tell - What Should Europe Do? With ALL Due Respect. My response would be to restrict Immigration form MUSLIM MAJORITY Nations and to encourage "indigenous" reproduction. If all 'y'all have a BETTER IDEA - Please Share.

-S-

How much money would the politicians have to leave at the table?

re: #5 Sharmuta

There's a huge problem with the concept of banning direct and indirect discrimination.

re: #7 Dr. Shalit

"A-D" -

"Vlaams Belang" is not exactly a 'teammate' - at best like Vichy France.

-S-

/sarc was implied

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

Pray Tell - What Should Europe Do? With ALL Due Respect. My response would be to restrict Immigration form MUSLIM MAJORITY Nations and to encourage "indigenous" reproduction. If all 'y'all have a BETTER IDEA - Please Share.

-S-

It's not necessary for me to come up with some kind of magic solution for Europe's problems, in order to know that the solution is NOT a return to fascism.

Glad there's a new thread. Charles, you are a busy guy today. Isn't it time for a bike ride? I can't keep up with you--and I'm on the east coast!

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

The first step is to cut welfare benefits and taxes.

re: #8 akak

akak -

Whatever the amount - follow it, follow it, follow it!

-S-

I'm waiting for the Fascist vs Islamofascist European cage match

re: #15 Shug

I'm waiting for the Fascist vs Islamofascist European cage match

I hope it is a draw, with lots of pain on both sides.

re: #7 Dr. Shalit

Also, note the quote marks around "teammates".

Regards,
AD

re: #11 Charles

It's not necessary for me to come up with some kind of magic solution for Europe's problems, in order to know that the solution is NOT a return to fascism.

Exactly. Besides, it's their continent, and it's up to them to decide if they want to solve their problems. Look at Ireland; once they decided to tackle their problems, instead of saying, "Well, that didn't work, so let's do it some more!" they improved their economy and everything else.

It goes so far as to claim that different treatment based on nationality or language can constitute indirect racial or ethnic discrimination.

Ah- here's the real problem. The fascists and nazis want to dictate who belongs in the state- who are superior citizens, and who is second class. For fascists- equal treatment under the law is the antithesis of their ideology.

Speaking of who is linking whom, under "Who's Saying What About the Tundra Tabloids" one finds these, among others:

"...One of my favorite European blogs is Tundra Tabloids by KGS. It features news on the Middle East, Islamists, etc. that you won't find elsewhere..."
- Debbie Schlussel

"...My friend, KGS, at Tundra Tabloids..."
"...KGS, I kiss you..."
- Atlas Shrugs

The future of Eurabia is very dark, again!

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

What Should Europe Do?

Expose Islam for what it truly is - LGF does a pretty good job of that. More must be done on the front lines - EU. The more citizens understand the goal of Islam, the more likely they will reject Islam.

Ex-muslims who are a positive contribution to society are a good thing.

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

Not sure if any thing can be done any more.

re: #9 Dianna

There's a huge problem with the concept of banning direct and indirect discrimination.

I'm not trying to defend the eu here- just pointing out why a Holocaust denying scumbag like le pen would have a problem with it.

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

For starters, how about educating the public about how Islam is not just another religion, but an existential threat to Western Civilization.

The next ten years will be very interesting in Europe.

How long will the good citizens of EU nations sit by while their collective communities are hijacked by extremists immigrating and not even making an effort to assimilate into the host countries?

I can already hear the goose-stepping soldiers marching down the streets of Europe again.....

So long as these European troglodytes see their problem in terms of race, they are doomed.

Islam is not a race.

They would bring wild wolves into their houses to protect them from the wild wolves without.

In the end, they will just become lunch.

"re: #3 Dr. Shalit

What Should Europe Do?

Expose Islam for what it truly is - LGF does a pretty good job of that. More must be done on the front lines - EU. The more citizens understand the goal of Islam, the more likely they will reject Islam.

Ex-muslims who are a positive contribution to society are a good thing."

And, as Charles has pointed out, not hope into bed with fascist nutjobs to spread the word about Islam.

hope hop

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

That will do little to help, imo. Europe's problem is socialism, and until they confront the real source of their problems, we'll continue to see the fascist tactic of scapegoating the "others".

This is certainly a prime example of the "progressive" ideology (as described by Clinton, Obama and many others on the left) taken to its logical conclusion. Or at least pretty far along towards its conclusion.

The conclusion of progressive, PC, et cetera, is the destruction of the society. They aren't quite there. Yet.

re: #24 Sharmuta

I see that. It's a bad idea, though, no matter who is suggesting it.

re: #25 rawmuse

For starters, how about educating the public about how Islam is not just another religion, but an existential threat to Western Civilization.

Seeing Islam as just another religion is the cause of much Western complacency. People are lead to believe that this is a 'Peaceful Religion",
hijacked by a teeny, tiny minority.
Islam widely teaches hate in mosques etc & the Koran is the road map.
All Muslims are not advocates of violence, but it does seem that there is a direct correlation between piousness & violence

re: #11 Charles

Charles -

Regarding FASCISM - Agreed. Perhaps Europe will get an Idea about "Borders, Language, Culture" - that is BOTH civilized and effective.
Certainly we are still working on it here in the USA. And, let's get down to the burlap - a "Union of North America" has existed since the NAFTA treaty on an economic basis, CUBA excepted. Moving from there to political union is more difficult. This is the situation the EU finds itself in, partial currency union notwithstanding. Both the EU and the "UNA" , and Japan, India, Israel and to some limited extent China share a basically John Lockean vision of society. The "UMMAH" does NOT. There my friend lies the "opportunity."

-S-

"I hate Belgian Nazi's"
/Jake

My pastor just returned from a conference in Germany.
Said that Europeans (and Germans in particular) are pretty much bewildered.
- Indigenous population averages 1 birth per family.
- Immigrant families (the huge majority of whom are from Muslim Turkey) have an average if 6 or 7 births per family.

Gee, what could have caused such a shift?
Couldn't be any of the leftist crap the EU has been spewing, could it?

Years and years of PC smack is bearing fruit, and the basic European world-view has blinded them. The can't/won't see it for the cultural suicide they're taking part in.

Sharmuta; I don't think europeans are capable of solving the problem of socialism. While the US saw huge numbers of europeans immigrating during the 18 and 19 hundreds, more europeans stayed behind in their old post feudal society. I think today's socialism comforts some deep-seated need for the serfs that remained.

Some of the "fellow travelers" might have come to the conclusion that this is the only standing opponent to EU servitude, and its acceptance of Islamic slave shackles for the peons.
I am not there, so the immanent nature of the issue doesn't hit me the same way it does, say, Gates of Vienna.
Even the US got into bed with "Uncle Joe" Stalin when the need was great enough. and certainly didn't backstab him during the conflict.
I don't live in Europe, so I don't have to live with the consequences of fourth class "citizenship" under Eu servitude to Islamic overlords.
Those facing just that might have made choices we here in the US have not had to face (yet)(although if El Presidente Open Borders has his way it is coming here)

'Artki' really hates the open threads. I'm watching in the Spy as he dings down every one on the front page. Heh.

re: #11 Charles

I'm British, and though continental Europeans have different concepts of freedoms than we do (we're catching up...), that's always been their sadness -- their poverty of political choices.

Can you imagine having been European during the Spanish Civil War, and being forced to choose between Facism or Communism? The choice of Solomon. Ghastly.

From the spinoffs:
Meetbarackobama
Click the "resume" icon to view several GOP ads. Fullscreen works well.

re: #36 least

least -

Make it real easy - NO DOLE to "migrants" = Less Live Births. Malthusian, AND effective.

-s-

The movement to resist the jihad is a mainstream movement. It is not the fringe.

re: #39 Charles

The early morning open got 2 dings. Heh.

re: #42 Dr. Shalit

As I said above, the dole needs to be cut, period. Pensions are also a problem, but the dole is the real killer.

I can only imagine how clueless I would be if forced to get 100% of my news from CNN or the CBC. This site covers topics that are never discussed on the telly, and I am grateful for its existence.

Now, crush the fascists. And hope that sane moderate voices arise in Europe to sensibly deal with the looming problems.

re: #37 rabidfox

Sharmuta; I don't think europeans are capable of solving the problem of socialism. While the US saw huge numbers of europeans immigrating during the 18 and 19 hundreds, more europeans stayed behind in their old post feudal society. I think today's socialism comforts some deep-seated need for the serfs that remained.

Is that a psychologicial gulf that will prove too wide and deep for us to overcome in helping Europeans stay free from Islam?

With you on this. The chasm between reason and extremism widens weekly. Brussels Journal was always suspiciously uneven and has been off my list for months now as its true colors continue to emerge. Ugly sight, not entertaining or the least bit interesting.

So yet again we see Europe cycle from good intentions to restraint to repression, and then as a direct result their journey into familiar extremes. It's all happened before and will again. Nex

OT from our Fascist bashing...

God, what a beautiful horse!

Big Brown poised for Triple Crown Bid

The author of this piece says:

"Positive action" is what Americans call "affirmative action". Note also the term "equality of outcomes", a totally fallacious and evil attempt to make everyone "equal".

They miss the point. It is wrong to legislate an "equality of outcomes", but not because "making everyone equal" is evil. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law. Dictating that there should be an "equality of outcomes" is not upholding the law. But to think that it's evil to make everyone equal is an appalling slip of the tongue.

This would be more comical if it weren't so troubling- the (eu) fascists are fighting the (crypto) fascists who are opposed to the (islamo) fascists. No where do I see any of these people standing up for the rule of law. The islamofascists don't think women or infidels are equal, the crypto-fascists don't think muslims or immigrants are equal, and the eu-fascists only think those who are equal are whoever they decide to be equal that day. What a mess.

Ugh, we are being punched from both the left and the right today.

re: #49 Maximu§

He looks so much like Man-O-War it takes my breath. And he runs like Secretariat, almost like a bicycle in the way his feet hit the ground in sequence.

Big Brown's just amazing.

re: #3 Dr. Shalit

Pray Tell - What Should Europe Do? With ALL Due Respect. My response would be to restrict Immigration form MUSLIM MAJORITY Nations and to encourage "indigenous" reproduction. If all 'y'all have a BETTER IDEA - Please Share.

-S-

The first step is to admit you have a problem.

Considering the PC winds in Europe, that's an extremely difficult one.

And part of the problem is that denying it with PC-correctness feeds the fascist extreme right.

re: #40 vbspurs

their poverty of political choices

.

Some sad shit right there.

re: #51 ContraJihadi

Ugh, we are being punched from both the left and the right today.

Nothing wrong with that. I enjoy irritating the far left and the far right. LOL.

re: #41 Racer X

Racer X -

If I actually MET him, I am sure we would have quite a 'Bull-Session' over a couple of "OE Fourtys and Kools/Newports" - We would still disagree on a lot of stuff - AND - I would still vote for "Cactus Jack" McCain. Perhaps with some seasoning he might become "Ready for Prime Time."
Took me 20+years to come around - so hope springs eternal. Just imagine Obama as David Horowitz, II. Put your intention on it.

-S-

re: #52 Dianna

He looks so much like Man-O-War it takes my breath. And he runs like Secretariat, almost like a bicycle in the way his feet hit the ground in sequence.

Big Brown's just amazing.

Now, now, this is no Secretariat. Amazing horse, but not S!

re: #25 rawmuse

For starters, how about educating the public about how Islam is not just another religion, but an existential threat to Western Civilization.

Just an observation, but if you were to substitute Islam for Judaism in that statement, we'd be somewhere Europe has been before and it didn't work out so well.

Seriously..... Do you really want Europeans thinking along those lines again?

re: #40 vbspurs

I'm British, and though continental Europeans have different concepts of freedoms than we do (we're catching up...), that's always been their sadness -- their poverty of political choices.

Can you imagine having been European during the Spanish Civil War, and being forced to choose between Facism or Communism? The choice of Solomon. Ghastly.

Er, I don't think Solomon chopped the two women in half, which would have been appropriate here.

re: #50 Sharmuta

The author glided by the "desired impossible leading to the inevitable, disastrous possible" (Heinlein) as well.

re: #51 ContraJihadi

Ugh, we are being punched from both the left and the right today.

And both extremes paint themselves as victims.

I swear, if ever again I hear a person on the political stage casting himself as a victim instead of asserting a positive program and explaining why I should embrace it, I am going to plant a whole patch of tomatoes, harvest them, and sell the spoiled ones to The People's Cube.

re: #58 Wishbone

Just an observation, but if you were to substitute Islam for Judaism in that statement, we'd be somewhere Europe has been before and it didn't work out so well.

Seriously..... Do you really want Europeans thinking along those lines again?

You equate Islam and Judaism?

re: #48 Nexx9

With you on this. The chasm between reason and extremism widens weekly. Brussels Journal was always suspiciously uneven and has been off my list for months now as its true colors continue to emerge. Ugly sight, not entertaining or the least bit interesting.

This was always my problem with Theo van Gogh. How can you not admire such courage as he had, in the end? But he had a nihilistic attitude, who hated anything he perceived as 'establishment' -- hardly in tune with my conservatism.

But you see, this is precisely the type of European who would be more pro-America in this clash of civilisations. It's sometimes hard for me to accept that.

re: #40 vbspurs

I'm British, and though continental Europeans have different concepts of freedoms than we do (we're catching up...), that's always been their sadness -- their poverty of political choices.

Can you imagine having been European during the Spanish Civil War, and being forced to choose between Facism or Communism? The choice of Solomon. Ghastly.

* * *
Yes, Spain's Civil War was ghastly but consider the excellent result.

Because Spaniards rejected communism at a horrible cost, Spain became a democracy before the Soviet Union did. Today, impoverished Ukrainians and Russians and Romanians come to wealthy Spain to work as maids, gardners, chauffeurs.

Spain may have gotten fascism for forty years--full of American/European influence, American bases, contact with Westerners, and finally a return to democracy in 1975, twenty years before the Communists failed.

re: #49 Maximu§

Big Brown poised for Triple Crown Bid

You think the for the first time in her life, Michelle may be proud of America's horses?

re: #57 The Shadow Do

There's similarities, but he doesn't have quite the same quality. His stride's not as smooth - he picks up and bounds at the end, which Secretariat didn't do - but Big Brown's a pretty amazing horse.

re: #58 Wishbone

"Wish" -

There is ONE DIFFERENCE - the Jews in Europe never saw themselves as an "avant garde" of a takeover. The Muslims DO. Go from there and everything else becomes apparent.

-S-

o/t So, what happened to the comments spy? Darn it. Everytime I take a night off to sleep, something changes. I liked that feature.

re: #52 Dianna

He looks so much like Man-O-War it takes my breath. And he runs like Secretariat, almost like a bicycle in the way his feet hit the ground in sequence.

Big Brown's just amazing.

I agree, I have it on ESPN right now...the race has not started yet. It looks like Casino Drive ridden by
jockey Edgar Prado will be the strongest competition.

re: #62 itellu3times

No......... You just choose to believe I did, it seems. Regardless, the essential point was how such thinking has been visited before and, while I basically understand what Rawmuse was trying to say, I'm questioning how wise it would be to instil such thinking into the European population.

re: #37 rabidfox

Sharmuta; I don't think europeans are capable of solving the problem of socialism. While the US saw huge numbers of europeans immigrating during the 18 and 19 hundreds, more europeans stayed behind in their old post feudal society. I think today's socialism comforts some deep-seated need for the serfs that remained.

I don't think the US can solve the problems it has with socialism either, nor am I hopeful that we can resist making them worse with ever-expanding "free" services. No matter what small steps the US makes to halt or turn back the tide, the drive leftward seems to proceed apace.

I am afraid that the real problem is universal suffrage. Don't get me wrong. I'm not for abolishing it and I don't know how anyone could. I just think the cranky old conservatives that warned us about it were right. As soon as you set up a system where the majority can vote themselves "benefits" out of the treasury, the game is over. It's only a matter of time.

re: #65 itellu3times

You think the for the first time in her life, Michelle may be proud of America's horses?

Yeah, but those other cracker horses have no business in the race.
This should just be a set aside.America is so mean.

re: #66 Dianna

There's similarities, but he doesn't have quite the same quality. His stride's not as smooth - he picks up and bounds at the end, which Secretariat didn't do - but Big Brown's a pretty amazing horse.

Root'in for 'em Dianna. Triple Crown is wonderfully special.

re: #58 Wishbone

Just an observation, but if you were to substitute Islam for Judaism in that statement, we'd be somewhere Europe has been before and it didn't work out so well.

Seriously..... Do you really want Europeans thinking along those lines again?

The Nazis were racialists. They were against the Jews as a "race." It didn't matter if a Jew was a convert to Catholicism. For that matter, an "Aryan" who was a convert to Judaism wouldn't have been rounded up.
What the National Socialists and the PC crowd have in common is their racialism. Islam is not a race. It is a radical anti-Western ideology which condones violent overthrow of European institutions.

re: #64 alegrias

* * *
Yes, Spain's Civil War was ghastly but consider the excellent result.

The same is true in Chile, which today flourishes and even has (ironically) a socialist lady President.

But freedom-loving people have to be wary of the pendulum swing -- Spain today, with its noon-hour porn television and Almodovaresque culture, is unrecognisable from 1975. This is at heart the problem with the Brussels Journal: they're trying to stop the pendulum with a mallet.

re: #68 katemaclaren

(OT) At the bottom of the post, see
digg this . newsvine . reddit . del.icio.us . tags . spy . email this article

Also, look at bottom of the Login/out area at top left:
LGF Spy (beta 5)

re: #67 Dr. Shalit

Fair point Doc, but when we say 'the' Muslims, does that mean it's prerequisite to assume 'all' Muslims are guilty of such actions. If everyone in Europe suddenly, overnight, fervently believed that Muslims were such aggressors, as you say, do you think Europeans would be politely asking them to leave and waiting patiently until the last one is on the boat 'home?'

What sort of action, in the face of such widespread belief in such a notion, could we really expect? I'm not sure I'd want to see that, to be honest.

re: #64 alegrias

Spain did not get fascism for 40 years. Despite Franco's use of Mussolini-style imagery and rhetoric during his first decade, he was never a true fascist. The first thing he did when he consolidated his power was to destroy the Falange as anything other than a cute political club w/ no more power than the average Moose Lodge.
Franco was a soldier above all else. (He was a practicing Roman Catholic who deliberately distanced himself from Mussolini's attacks on the papacy.)
What Spain got was 40 years of military dictatorship that became progressively lighter as the years rolled on.
El caudillo was a bastard, especially in his early days, but he was no ideologue intent on building a brave new world.

re: #37 rabidfox

Sharmuta; I don't think europeans are capable of solving the problem of socialism. While the US saw huge numbers of europeans immigrating during the 18 and 19 hundreds, more europeans stayed behind in their old post feudal society. I think today's socialism comforts some deep-seated need for the serfs that remained.

I'm also not so certain they can over come socialism, but it is the root of the problem, nevertheless. They use socialism as a "Third Way" between American capitalism and communism, but I see it as communism-lite. And talk about an equality of outcomes! Their economic system prevents prevents the cream from rising to the top and keeps the middle class firmly penned into their pre-existing situation. And that's how progressives like it.

The middle classes of europe are stuck where they are, dependent on the government to help them, because they government takes from them as much as they give back (if not less), and there is no incentive to get out of the middle class because the government will take even more.

We constantly hear how the euros should breed more, but how are they to pay for those children? How are they to care for them? Mothers cannot afford to stay home- they have a government to fund. They need free markets and tax reform- that's not socialism, it's capitalism, which the euros seem to think is too American and cruel. Capitalism will not help them completely with socialism and fascists, although it would go a long way to curing their ills in that capitalism favors free people and individualism. And it is protection of individual rights, and not collective rights, that they need to embrace.

re: #74 wolfie

Again, fair point made. But can you imagine the 'mob mind, if you will, making such distinctions? When things get out of hand, rational debate is the first thing to go right out the window.

re: #79 Sharmuta

With reference to the 'third way' and 'communism lite,' Melanie Phillips wrote a good article some time back, looking at the mythical 'middle ground' of British politics that every politico seemed to be fighting over at the time. She pointed out that, rather than having the Tories and Labour fighting it out from their respective traditional positions, equidistant upon the political scale, the so called 'middle ground' was merely 'lefty lite' and that it was disturbing that a party calling itself Conservative should aspire to such political aspirations.

Disturbing indeed.

Socialism is a virus, and Europe is sick.

This virus cripples Europe's immune system, making Europe more susceptible to other invaders, such as the bacterial infection of fascism in whatever form - white power or Islamofascism.

You can't fight a virus with an infection. However, an infection can cripple or kill the body that is weakened by a virus.

We in the USA have a strong immune system - our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We ALSO have antibiotics - our system of checks and balances, our laws, and our powers as individual citizens - not to mention our KNOWLEDGE of our powers.

The body of Europe, to be healthy, must do what is needed to strenghten its immune system. There are a few who are trying, but unfortunately they are a minority at this time. Therefore, the infection that is fascism - whatever strain - has its hot eye on Europe as a tasty snack.

re: #51 ContraJihadi

Ugh, we are being punched from both the left and the right today.

huh?

But does Brussels Journal endorse his fascist views? It may but I haven't noticed it. The link simply provides a source of the information of anti-liberal policies, one that BJ and the FN happen to share.

Last week the British Columbia Human Rights Council had their Kangaroo Court hearing regarding the MacLeans /Mark Steyn article. The Complainants where having a hard time coming up with evidence so they logged on the the Brussels Journal.

Brussels Journal

11:45 AM The hearing now turns to readings from various blogs I’ve never heard of: The Brussels Journal, .......

And at last Porter gets to do his cross-examination. He points out that neither of them know anything about “Fjordman,” the author of the Brussels Journal post. However, we do know who Col. Khadafy is. And now he’s about to ask him, “would it bother you to know about Dr. Munir al Kasem (another member of the Canadian Islamic Congress), who in Feb. 2000 –”

Andrew Coyne Liveblogging Steyn/Macleans

Geez, late again. However, we've had these fascism threads before and I see absolutely no reason at all to change my position on this: I don't want and won't allow any fascists in my foxhole. Period.
Europeans are gonna have to figure something out for themselves, but going from Socialism to Fascism is a HUGE step backwards and maybe, just maybe, slowly cutting down the the nanny state benefits TO ALL but the neediest would be a good way to start improving the situation over there.
I don't know European politics all that well, except I don't see anything there that resembles a true conservative movement (in the spirit of say William F. Buckley Jr., (RIP)) but it there is one, I'd encourage all our European friends to embrace IT not fascism, not communism and not socialism either. Start by celebrating true freedom of speech and worship. Then start examing why, in spite of the US's bearing the overwhelming burden of Europe's military defense, most socialist European nations are just barely getting by. And don't be shocked if you see capitalism sneaking in.

re: #86 realwest

My position on this when it all started to heat up, was, I was looking for a bunch of Belgians, etc., who didn't want/like the fascists speaking for them, to gain their voices and split way with support of lgf and other communities aware of the jihadi invasion. Including support from what I knew of Gates of Vienna at that time. Alas time has not revealed such a Belgian bunch; has me even more concerned for the future of Europe.

re: #84 marsouin

But does Brussels Journal endorse his fascist views? It may but I haven't noticed it. The link simply provides a source of the information of anti-liberal policies, one that BJ and the FN happen to share.

When you publish the writing of a known Holocaust denier and fascist, yes, you are endorsing them. You're not seriously suggesting that someone can just "impartially" use a neo-Nazi as a source, are you?

Really, fascists and postmodernists are essentially the same thing. Pomos emphasize race and culture as being above the individual and so do fascists. They are both collectivists.

The difference is that postmodernists are anti-Western (the West is presumed evil) and so they elevate every other culture above the West. I really am not surprised by the rise of fascism, since postmodernists are supporting the very premises that make it possible for them to rise. If you set up some race or culture as special and untouchable (e.g. muslims in Europe), then there is nothing in logic to prevent others from doing the same thing.

The only cure for this madness is reason and individual rights, where each individual is left free from coercion by the state to follow his own goals and dreams. By individual rights I mean Lockean rights as per the Declaration of Independence.

And in their sidebar: a link to a British BNP-affiliated forum that is openly racist.

Add "amazing clueless" to that description. I actually went over this forum and found one thread with several Pat Condell YouTube rants posted, including this one noted here at LGF.

I know these BNP lackeys didn't even bother to watch it -- a video that they post on their site. (I'm not linking to them.)

I'll try my best to transcribe Pat Condell's words (from 4:27-4:57 in this video):

So to any white supremacist morons out there who think that they can latch on to this video in the way that they've attempted to in some of my previous videos, go and take a piss on a live electric rail, because I am not your friend -- I am your enemy, and I'm proud to be your enemy. Just as I'm proud to be the enemy of every creepy Islamofascist on this planet. Because you people are two sides of the same coin, and it's an evil, worthless, poisonous currency that I want nothing to do with.

Seriously, how much do they really care about what Pat's saying if they're not even going catch an repudiation like this? And posted on their own damn forum…

I attended a Scottish Festival in Arlington, Texas last night. The vendors were selling lots of stuff in the form of celtic crosses or with the crosses on them, including jewelry, sporrans and other leather items, wood carvings, etc.

All those Scottish Texans must be fascists, eh?

I see the usual apologists are showing up right on cue.

re: #91 JungleJim

It's been shown over and over the cross these guys use isn't a Celtic cross.

We're onto that one. Try another.

re: #86 realwest

Yes, they're going to have to dump their welfare state. They're going to have to start forming families again, and stop importing foreign workers and they're going to have to rediscover their Christian/Renaissance/Enlightenment non-socialist, non-neo-Nazi past.

I don't see much hope for Europe, otherwise. And, unfortunately, I don't see them doing much of the above, either.

/Yes, and trying capitalism would be a good idea, too.

re: #77 Wishbone

Well, here's some thing's you could try (and I believe they've all been suggested before).

1. Dump crooked politicos such as George Galloway and Red Ken (sounds like you've done the latter), who favor immigration, multiculturalism and are often in Saudi pockets.

And the Labour Party needs to go.

Oh yeah, and could you please stop sending not-so-bonny Prince Chuckles over here, to lecture us about our insensitivity to the Arab world? I know you think he's not important, but too many moonbats here, and elsewhere, take him seriously. Stuff a sock in his mouth, please.

3. Dump your welfare system.

4. Start marrying and having families.

5. Start deporting all those mad mullahs in your mosques who call for death to the Jews, and war against America. Look, you can at least do that much, can't you?

6. Re-discover your Christian/Renaissance/Shakespearean/Englightenment past.

re: #27 Maximu§

I can already hear the goose-stepping soldiers marching down the streets of Europe again.....

They won't be native Europeans, though. More likely they will be waving green flags with a half-moon...

re: #70 Wishbone

Wishobone, no one's ever said the Europeans should go back to thinking that way. In fact, if you'll read this thread, and the accompanying post, you'll realize that most of here oppose Europe's going back that way.

Also, Islam is a religion. And please don't use the Jews/Moslem strawman analogy; try another. That one's been used before. It's lame. The group that's the most threatening to Jews these is radical Islam. If you're really concerned about Genocide, and European bigotry, try to persuade your countrymen to support Israel, and stop supporting the Palestinian uber-victims.

re: #96 infidel4ever

I'm getting the creepy feeling that a lot of Europeans would like their Islamic populations gone, by goose-stepping means, if necessary, but they're fumfering around, hoping the good ol' USA, or somebody, anybody else, will come along and bail them out. I'm also afraid many fo them really believe that they can use neo-Nazi groups to get rid of their Islamic problem, and then reign them in afterwards. Uh-uh, guys, it's not gonna be that easy.

re: #38 jhn1

Uh, no.

Uncle Joe stabbed us in back instead, after the war.

Sometimes the enemy of your enemy---winds up being your enemy too, and not your friend. Deals with the devil never work.

It is getting more and more like an Abraham/Lot/G-d kind of thing. Have to nervously keep lower the number for G-d to spare Europe.

re: #38 jhn1

"Gates of Vienna" is located in Virgina, USA.

"Brussels Journal" is nothing more then a propaganda/media outlet for the Belgian fascist VB party. That's all it has ever been for its entire existence.

The USA was "allied" with Stalin for just three years. I think history clearly shows us how that ended.

Don't ever call those assholes at BJ or GoV my "fellow travelers" again.

NOT
A
REQUEST,
R

re: #98 TalkinKamel

I'm getting the creepy feeling that a lot of Europeans would like their Islamic populations gone, by goose-stepping means, if necessary, but they're fumfering around, hoping the good ol' USA, or somebody, anybody else, will come along and bail them out. I'm also afraid many fo them really believe that they can use neo-Nazi groups to get rid of their Islamic problem, and then reign them in afterwards. Uh-uh, guys, it's not gonna be that easy.

I just know that more and more people are getting fed up with Muslims and their annoying demands. During the past couple of weeks in the Netherlands:

- Muslims complained about construction workers wearing shorts because of hot weather. They actually demanded that the workers put on long pants. I don't think the workers complied, but their *sshole forman said he "would look for a solution".
- Muslims complained about an exhibition of abstract paintings in a town hall, two of the paintings featured abstract nude women. The paintings were meekly moved to another (out of the way) spot.
- A Dutch cartoonist was taken into custody by a team of 10 policemen and kept in a cell for 30 hours on the complaint of a Dutch convert to salafist Islam. Something like that has not happened since you guys kicked out the Germans in '45.
- The city transport company of Amsterdam had decided to cancel celebrating Christmas, as there are so many foreigners working for them as cleaners etc. Somehow loosing our own culture seems to be the multicultural thing to do.
- Just today one of our governments pet Muslims (so nice, so modern, so well-integrated; you know, the Tariq Ramadan-kind of Muslim) has stated that there should be more religion in our public schools. Especially Islam. Our children need to learn about Islam. And burkha's should be allowed in school. And there should be more respect for Islamic holidays. And, and, and...

Our government is clinging to their wobbly seat of power, avoiding an electing at all costs as they will get a drubbing and not doing anything to protect their own people.

Some Muslim woman told me already in the early '70's: "Just you wait. One day we will be boss here." These people have come here as invaders and conquerors. I don't give a sh*t if they all leave feet first.

I have nothing against foreigners or other races per se, I lived abroad myself for twenty years and you can meet nice and not so nice people everywhere, in every country and among all races. But right now, if I saw one of those bearded Muslims in a dress fall in one of our canals I would think "Inshallah" and keep walking...

re: #102 infidel4ever

Uh, Infidel, I think you misunderstood the main point of my post.

I certainly sympathize with Europeans getting impatient with Moslems continually pushing the envelope; we're getting that over here, too.

The main point of my post, however, is that I fear Europe isn't dealing with the problem in a very effective way.

re: #103 TalkinKamel

Uh, Infidel, I think you misunderstood the main point of my post.

I certainly sympathize with Europeans getting impatient with Moslems continually pushing the envelope; we're getting that over here, too.

The main point of my post, however, is that I fear Europe isn't dealing with the problem in a very effective way.

Because our governments + the EU are on the side of the invaders. The only alternative we have is starting a civil war. So far people don't want to look at that possibility.

re: #104 infidel4ever

Seriously. . . go back and read the post.

re: #104 infidel4ever

Because our governments + the EU are on the side of the invaders. The only alternative we have is starting a civil war. So far people don't want to look at that possibility.

You do have some freedom of press and speech? Can you not work from ideology that looks at each individual and their particular ideology? Is there no way to pressure your government? Can you not gather/attract people who do not want fascist misery while defending your society?

re: #106 Roger

I suspect they could---but too many Europeans really don't want to at this point. They want the civil/war, nationalist (neo-Nazi?) option.

It won't work. Starting a war, and hoping they can beg, bully or cajole the US to come in and help them isn't going to work either.

re: #84 marsouin

But does Brussels Journal endorse his fascist views? It may but I haven't noticed it. The link simply provides a source of the information of anti-liberal policies, one that BJ and the FN happen to share.

According to that line of reasoning, if Stormfront were to post something factual, there would be nothing wrong with a website linking to it.

re: #105 TalkinKamel

Seriously. . . go back and read the post.

We are not fumfering around. Our own governments are still bleating about multiculturalism and punishing any local who happens to voice his opinion that there are certain drawbacks. So unless we overthrow them, there is not much we can do really. And people are not ready for that.

And yes, if the situation does not improve soon we may have to join hands with poeple of a less savoury reputation (keep pointing them out, Charles!). Just like the Allies did in WWII with Russia. Did not work out very well in the end, and I have no doubt it will not work out very well the next time. Too bad. Needs must where the devil drives.

re: #109 infidel4ever

The devil's driving you already, Infidel. It won't work out. And it won't work out in a way that isn't "very well." It will work out really, really, bad. Not just, "too bad"----really bad.

You guys are too eager to embrace violence, and the totalitarian solution, and join hands with those of "less savoury" reputation. (Less savouray? Vlaams Belang,

If you must go neo-Nazi, and fight a civil war, to get your country back, I'm not sure that you haven't already lost it.

Don't expect us to come help.

re: #107 TalkinKamel

I suspect they could---but too many Europeans really don't want to at this point. They want the civil/war, nationalist (neo-Nazi?) option.

It won't work. Starting a war, and hoping they can beg, bully or cajole the US to come in and help them isn't going to work either.

I think it's difficult for Europeans to shift to the American way of thinking. We actually believe we can effect change, while they have grown up believing the government is ultimately responsible for change. Their current paradigm is falling apart. Let's hope they make a shift toward more "individual" freedom. The only problem is they will need "individuals " who believe that they can make a difference without resorting to extremes.

And, sorry, yeah, you are fumfering; both your governments, who cling to their multicultural utopia, and the ones who dream that a nice, big, bloody civil war will cure everything.

re: #106 Roger

You do have some freedom of press and speech? Can you not work from ideology that looks at each individual and their particular ideology? Is there no way to pressure your government? Can you not gather/attract people who do not want fascist misery while defending your society?

So far we still have the internet, so yes, there we still have free speech. However, I have no doubt that the government is doing its best to shut everybody up. See the arrest of the cartoonist, Gregorius Nekschot. They know his life will be in danger if they drag him into open court and his name and face become known. Pure intimidation aimed at the rest of the "dissidents". Prime Minister Balkenende is sue-ing a magazine that published a speech warning of the dangers of Islam in his name. Of course it was satire, he would never have made that speech, and he lost the court case. He just started another one (probably with my tax money!) and the owner of the magazine has shut it down and filed for bancruptcy.
Not too long ago I read that people who criticized Hitler in the late '30's in the Netherlands were punished and dragged into court for "insulting a friendly head of state". I am telling you, those years have come back...

re: #111 gman

I certainly hope they can make the shift, though, in all honestly, reading some of the European posters here, I'm not optimistic.

But we'll see.

re: #110 TalkinKamel

The devil's driving you already, Infidel. It won't work out. And it won't work out in a way that isn't "very well." It will work out really, really, bad. Not just, "too bad"----really bad.

You guys are too eager to embrace violence, and the totalitarian solution, and join hands with those of "less savoury" reputation. (Less savouray? Vlaams Belang,

If you must go neo-Nazi, and fight a civil war, to get your country back, I'm not sure that you haven't already lost it.

Don't expect us to come help.

You will be busy with your own Muslim problem. Don't fool yourself your Muslim immigrants will disappear into the famous American melting pot. They may seem to, for a while, as long as it suits their purpose. Muslims come in many flavours, but the basic ingredients are the same for all: must conquer for Allah.

re: #113 infidel4ever

So far we still have the internet, so yes, there we still have free speech. However, I have no doubt that the government is doing its best to shut everybody up. See the arrest of the cartoonist, Gregorius Nekschot. They know his life will be in danger if they drag him into open court and his name and face become known. Pure intimidation aimed at the rest of the "dissidents". Prime Minister Balkenende is sue-ing a magazine that published a speech warning of the dangers of Islam in his name. Of course it was satire, he would never have made that speech, and he lost the court case. He just started another one (probably with my tax money!) and the owner of the magazine has shut it down and filed for bancruptcy.
Not too long ago I read that people who criticized Hitler in the late '30's in the Netherlands were punished and dragged into court for "insulting a friendly head of state". I am telling you, those years have come back...

The Internet is your best resort to spread information. No one will ultimately be able to shut you up (you or someone else can always start another site) on the Internet. Just put out the facts and keep the fascists away.

re: #116 gman

re: #116 gman

The Internet is your best resort to spread information. No one will ultimately be able to shut you up (you or someone else can always start another site) on the Internet. Just put out the facts and keep the fascists away.

Well, we have not given up yet...

re: #113 infidel4ever

See the arrest of the cartoonist, Gregorius Nekschot.

Provided Gregorius Nekschot is not a fascist, if he was from my town/city and put in jail, I'd be in there with him. That is the difference. Why don't you go to jail with him? Increase the numbers instead of being like penguins on an iceberg jostling until one falls; then they all stop and gaze into the water to see if he gets eaten.

re: #115 infidel4ever

You will be busy with your own Muslim problem. Don't fool yourself your Muslim immigrants will disappear into the famous American melting pot. They may seem to, for a while, as long as it suits their purpose. Muslims come in many flavours, but the basic ingredients are the same for all: must conquer for Allah.

I think you misunderstand how many Americans feel. We are definitely not under any misconceptions. Those were erased September 11, 2001. All of us were affected that day. I, for one, had been out of the Army for nearly 10 years. I signed up to go back in the National Guard just a short while after 9/11. When I was being in-processed at the MEPS station, there were a bunch of guys just like me who had been out of the service for a while going back in to serve again.

re: #118 Roger

Provided Gregorius Nekschot is not a fascist, if he was from my town/city and put in jail, I'd be in there with him. That is the difference. Why don't you go to jail with him? Increase the numbers instead of being like penguins on an iceberg jostling until one falls; then they all stop and gaze into the water to see if he gets eaten.

By the time it was on the news, he was out. Not much sense in going to jail then, is there?

I'm stunned that "Virgina" made it through spellcheck.

SCRABBLE,
R

re: #120 infidel4ever

When government is wrong it makes sense to go to jail in droves. and go loudly.

re: #119 gman

I think you misunderstand how many Americans feel. We are definitely not under any misconceptions. Those were erased September 11, 2001. All of us were affected that day. I, for one, had been out of the Army for nearly 10 years. I signed up to go back in the National Guard just a short while after 9/11. When I was being in-processed at the MEPS station, there were a bunch of guys just like me who had been out of the service for a while going back in to serve again.

Yet you still have CAIR, and Muslims giving "sensitivity training" to FBI-personnel etc. I think the USA too has its share of people living in lala-land as far as Islam is concerned.

There are also a LOT of Europeans who are not under any misconceptions either. I think one of the problems is that Europeans are so bl**dy obedient as far as governments are concerned. I don't think they will stand up for themselves any time soon...

There are currently no good solutions for Europe. Most of the adherent states have already surrendered their sovereignty to Brussels leaving their peoples no viable way to combat laws (dictates of E.U. bureaucrats). Monies that should be allocated to defense are not there as all funds are allocated to sustaining and integrating unsustainable social programs and multicultural frippery. The entire E.U. is vulnerable to attack by anyone with an army. But the main threat comes from within where Islam's avant garde attack from the cradle on Dar al-Harb will cause Europe to disintegrate into yet another failed Islamic state or suffer the rebirth of Fascism and it's hard to see which is worse.

We' better watch carefully since the forces in play in Europe will be arriving here in slightly modified form in the near future.

re: #115 infidel4ever

You will be busy with your own Muslim problem. Don't fool yourself your Muslim immigrants will disappear into the famous American melting pot. They may seem to, for a while, as long as it suits their purpose. Muslims come in many flavours, but the basic ingredients are the same for all: must conquer for Allah.

You know, I actually disagree with that.

I can't quite put my finger on why (maybe it is the long-term belief in some KIND of American melting pot), but I think cultural materialism and American systemic perfectability has something to do with it.

People are too busy workin', and playin' to bother with blowing themselves up. Individualism is truly this country's saving grace.

re: #123 infidel4ever

Yet you still have CAIR, and Muslims giving "sensitivity training" to FBI-personnel etc. I think the USA too has its share of people living in lala-land as far as Islam is concerned.

There are also a LOT of Europeans who are not under any misconceptions either. I think one of the problems is that Europeans are so bl**dy obedient as far as governments are concerned. I don't think they will stand up for themselves any time soon...

Oh yes, we have our moonbat sympathizers and that is why I qualified my statement with "many Americans". However, for the rest of us non-moonbats, I think we are putting up a good fight. LGF has played an instrumental role in counteracting some of the MSM's lopsided power over the hearts and minds of Americans. I would love to see a website in Europe like this one.

re: #124 annar "But the main threat comes from within where Islam's avant guard attack from the cradle on Dar al-Harb will cause Europe to disintegrate into yet another failed Islamic state or suffer the rebirth of Fascism and it's hard to see which is worse."

Well I certainly see your point. And neither Islamofascists or plain old-fashioned fascists are friends of freedom, of hope or of human dignity.
As I said above, I am not sufficiently conversant with European politics to offer a solution. What I can offer, however, is this: any sort of fascism ultimately winds up with the power in the hands of the few, the very few, and the overwhelming majority of the rest are left with really no alternative to fighting it.
That's WHY it must be fought now - and making nice or allying yourself with WN fascists is ultimately going to do for you what Islamofascism will do: take away your freedom, your hope and your dignity as human beings.
So I think, perhaps, all Europeans who value freedom, hope and human dignity band together to fight all kinds of fascism - whether that means taking over an existing political party, substituting your own - non-fascist EU bureaucrats, or starting your own political party.
But it is up to the Europeans to pull themselves back from the brink of fascism of any kind or type.

re: #91 JungleJim

All those Scottish Texans must be fascists, eh?

No, you ninny. You have it backwards. It means the fascists have co-opted yet another ancient symbol and tarnished it.

I have a Celtic cross - a big one - in my living room. It's not a white power symbol - it's a Celtic cross and spiritual to me. Actually, it was a Spooky Celtic Cross Halloween Tombstone that I bought at Target, but now it is a Celtic cross. Even though it includes a skull in the middle and RIP at the bottom, it is spiritual, not a fake tombstone, and not an evil fascist thing, to me.

It's all about intent. What might yours be, hmmmmm?

re: #35 Dr. Shalit

I'm not sure Savage's structuralist reduction of the Federalist Papers, US political thought generally, and US Civilization is the solution to Europe's problems. "Borders Language Culture" very easily described Mussolini's Italy too.

re: #130 i4cu2

I think that in 10-20 years from now America will open its eyes and see a vast ocean of people who don't wish to assimilate. That group will have more allegiance to mexico that to America. Then I guess we will see with who we will work with just like the Europeans are today.

I know where you're coming from, but that's what they said about the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Jews, and all the other large immigrant groups that came over in floods.

Turn-of-the-century WASPs lamented the state their country would be in in those amorphous "20-30 years". They passed laws curtailing immigration. And you recall what happened -- the children of those immigrants turned into America's Greatest Generation in WWII.

Perhaps I am fool-hardy. Yet, I do believe that time is immigration's greatest assimilator in the New World. Just give it time, you'll see.

re: #97 TalkinKamel

Wishobone, no one's ever said the Europeans should go back to thinking that way. In fact, if you'll read this thread, and the accompanying post, you'll realize that most of here oppose Europe's going back that way.

Also, Islam is a religion. And please don't use the Jews/Moslem strawman analogy; try another. That one's been used before. It's lame. The group that's the most threatening to Jews these is radical Islam. If you're really concerned about Genocide, and European bigotry, try to persuade your countrymen to support Israel, and stop supporting the Palestinian uber-victims.

OK.....Look TK, It's obvious that you're passionate about what you believe, which is no bad thing, but sometimes you can be a bit of a pratt about it. You can say all you like that we don't want European mob thinking going back 'that' way, but when we start introducing concepts like 'they are the enemy' into the thinking of the masses, how do you think the mob is going to interpret that?

There is no 'Jew/Muslim strawman analogy' anywhere in what I said. My point could just as easily been made with complete disregard to race or religion, supposing that instead we take any other particular grouping and label them 'enemy' in the minds of the masses. Doesn't matter whether that group is religious, racial or otherwise, they're going to be feeling pretty much fucked if the mob turns on them because we've 'educated' said masses to believe that they're an 'existential threat to Western Civilization.'

#131 vbspurs

Thank you for your reply. I think the biggest differences between the groups you mention and mexicos citizens is that after one generation or so the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Jews etc. their children were Americanized. Lack of transportation and communication in some ways helped to Americanize them. In 1993 I got to spend just under 4 months in Monterrey, Mexico. I was taken by surprise how many mexicans seemed to think that California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas then straight up to Colorado is theirs. That they will get it back by population. I was told that there were many cities that are basically mexico in American territory.

Last 4 years my daughter has been teaching high school around Anaheim, California. She has been teaching in one high school near Anaheim. There are communities where she teaches that look and feel more mexican than American. You can spend you entire day and night in a foreign country while visiting near Disneyland. I also have family and friends living in Austin and San Antonio Texas. The same environment around Anaheim is also in Texas. My father in law lives in Sioux City, Iowa. They have been having a very large hispanic population surge there.

With wide open immigration policy why should the majority of mexicans become American. Immigration from our past was set up to make them know that becoming an American was expected of them, that is not the case with mexicans today. Perhaps if we as a society expected immigrants to learn English and some of the foundations of western civilization plus make it understood that all allegiances must be cut with their home country's their would be less concern with the amount of body's breaking our laws.

Mexico and its people are amazing and I never would want closed borders indefinitely. It is just that the way we took immigrants in 1860 to the 1920s or so makes it harder to Americanize them. We seem more concerned with not hurting their feelings and making them immediate citizens instead of expecting them to earn that citizenship. There should be night classes at all junior colleges and or high schools to teach English. We as a society should be insisting that those entering our country need to work (learning our language, history and politics etc) for the privilege of citizenship.

We shouldn't allow mexico to use America as a pressure valve for all problems in mexico. Mexico government encourages their citizens to enter America illegal. We should make a federal law that if your parents aren't citizens then their children don't get automatic citizenship for being born here. Virtually every county hospital in the border states are broke and or going bankrupt. We should bill mexico for all medical services their illegal citizens get from us. They could pay in oil if they don't have the money. I realize our hospitals probably cost more but then perhaps mexico wont encourage their citizens to come here. We should also charge a reasonable rate for educating their youngsters. All illegal aliens who get welfare and other aid America should then bill their home nations. Maybe when we start charging for their citizens here illegally Mexico will then truly help us stem the flow.

Most of all the possibility of a large population of non citizens won't be a threat to our country.

Thanks

The waves of migration from Italy, Ireland, etc were just that, "waves"...with a beginning, a middle and an end.

With no end in sight to the massive population transfer from Mexico, it cannot be compared to earlier migration flows.

re: #132 Wishbone

Wishbone, your country has a problem. You don't want to see it. That's too bad.

You'll see it eventually. But it will be far too late.

P.S. Seriously, the little British-isms: "pratt", "mate", etc. are kind've annoying. They make you sound like a stage Englishman, not the real thing. It just doesn't sound natural.

re: #115 infidel4ever

Yes, it's a problem here, too. But neo-Nazism isn't the answer. (And what makes you think you guys can handle a civil war, when you can't even handle your own politicians?)

And,. considering Europe's declining population, what is the use of having a civil war, driving out the Moslems---when you're just going to be inviting them back in again 5 years later, because you need them to work to provide benefits for your dying populations and creaking welfare systems?

You guys need a real plan. You need to really re-build society, not just chose from different varieties of facism. (Hmmmm, shall I chose the Middle-Eastern flavor, or the Nordic brand? It all tastes the same.)

It's interesting. . . Wishbone doesn't want to see a problem at all, and is nervous about naming anybody the enemy (even after the 7/7 subway bombings), whereas infidel longs for civil war. It's a textbook lesson, in a way, of European history in the 20th Century.

Oh, and Wishbone---your king-to-be really is getting to be annoying, lecturing us, and the rest of the world, about our insensitivity to Islam.
I think it's kind've, well, "pratt" the way you guys let him run around the world as some sort of spokesperson, then just shrug and say, "Oh well, we don't take him that seriously" when somebody points this out. A lot of people do. Stop pretending he isn't being used as a propaganda too, and that he isn't a real influence.

It particularly makes sense to get loud for freedom of speech when the government is wrong and you know that the majority of police, military personnel and jailers are sympathetic to you and your shared culture and ideals.

In this same case, it is absolute senselessness to go all fascist civil warring.

re: #135 TalkinKamel

If it makes you feel better to state that I'm in denial for not seeing things from your perspective TK, then go right ahead; It won't change my perspective one bit. It would be nice, however, if you could for once address the issue I was discussing, rather than fly off at a tangent. I'll remind you: The issue was one of how to inform the masses without simply labelling all Muslims as 'The Enemy' and leaving the masses to sort the 'problem' out in their own way, because that inevitably leads to a bloody mess.

P.S. Seriously, the little British-isms: "pratt", "mate", etc. are kind've annoying. They make you sound like a stage Englishman, not the real thing. It just doesn't sound natural.

If you're so well educated as to the idiosyncrasies of British regional colloquialism, then I'm sure you already know that I and many of my fellow Brits use just such language all the time in our daily lives. Of course, if I'm not living up to your expectation as to how a Brit is meant to talk in your book, then that's just tough. Your just going to have to get used to being annoyed, 'cos that is exactly the language we use.

re: #130 i4cu2

I don't think the vast majority of people working with "fascists" organizations are fascists. It has suddenly dawned on them that their governments have sold them out. I think it is very easy and somewhat cowardly to say from America, how dare you work with fascists. I honestly don't know if I would or wouldn't deal with those groups right now. I have freedom of expression and the second amendment which helps me to laugh at those losers from the safety of America. As alot of those Europeans see their country's and culture disappear I am positive they will make working relationships with many a lot worse groups than they are today.

I think that in 10-20 years from now America will open its eyes and see a vast ocean of people who don't wish to assimilate. That group will have more allegiance to mexico that to America. Then I guess we will see with who we will work with just like the Europeans are today.

We are a nation of immigrants founded on the principles of individual liberty. I don't see Mexican immigrants threatening my individual liberties or secretly planning to do so and I've been living in California all my life. I have many Mexican friends who are recent immigrants and they are working hard to be a part of America. Due to the fact that we have very few safety nets for them like European countries, they are forced to assimilate no matter how many enter the country. I also have friends with light- colored skin who feel threatened by seeing lots of people with darker colored skin than their own. I think they make judgments about people because of their skin color without even bothering to see what's inside. They're missing out on so much.

re: #138 Wishbone

Um, not going to go into your language. It just sounds. . . overdone, sometimes. Like an American saying stuff like, "Wall, shuckins, thet thar's one ornery critter, by heckalourm!" There are other British posters here, who don't come across like that.

As for informing the masses---um, what is this bit about "masses?" Are the people of England nothing but one big mob now? If your "masses" are so restive that the mere hint that something is wrong in the Islamic community, and that some members of it need to be investigated and that maybe unlimited Islamic immigration isn't a good idea at the moment will be enough to make them go Nazi on the entire Islamic community, then you guys really do have problems!

Push for rule of law. Focus on the mad mullahs in your moques, who are calling for death to England, and jihad. Isolate them from the rest of the Islamic population. Deport them.

Investigate the Islamic radicals who are making England their headquarters, and deport them, too. You could probably get rid of a lot of these guys by kicking them off your all too generous British dole. Those who are caught making bombs, and involved in plots against civilians need to be arrested, and/or deported. Islamic sympathizers, such as George Galloway and Prince Chuckles need to be told, loudly and repeatedly, to shut up. And Galloway really ought to be investigated for his ties with Islamic countries. (As for Chuckles, he ought to be ordered to stay home, and stop jaunting around the globe on British taxpayer money, shilling for Islam. You could do a lot I think, putting pressure on your non-Islamic, but problematic, politicians.)

These are all common sense measures, which wouldn't target the ordinary Moslem, who just wants to be left alone. On the other hand, it's sheer insanity to tolerate terrorists, insane imams who preach war against the very country that's taken them in and would-be bombers. Investigate. Separate the good from the bad, boot the bad out (and off the dole, as well), and start getting real mean with your non-Islamic politicians, who are all too sympathetic to terrorists, and Moslem countries. I really don't see how doing any of this would be equivalent to creating the Third Reich, Part II. If it does, if the British really have become nothing more than a mob, then, as I said, you guys have more problems than just the jihadis. . .

re: #140 TalkinKamel

OK...... Between time zones, a nights sleep and a days work, I'm a little late getting back here, but your points are perfectly reasonable and deserve an answer.

About the language thing, I understand other Brit posters may not use the same terms I do, but such use is more of a regional, rather than national, characteristic. I'm from Liverpool, up in the North West, more commonly known as a 'Scouser'. Our accent and dialect, along with all the slang terms that arise from those, are a nightmare for a lot of people to understand, including most other Britons. It's been said that our accent is most akin to a mixture of Irish Stew and bronchial asthma. We're rather proud of that; Mainly because we can't really argue with it, so what the hell?

Anyway, the point being that I speak and think in the Scouse accent and dialect: I just happen to type in clear English. Be that as it may, I do tend to use some of the terms that are natural in everyday use to me. Trust me TK, I don't sit around wondering which stereotypical, British characteristics I can affect when I type my posts here. I really do speak with these terms and don't really see any harm if a few of them bleed over into my posts.

Moving on....

I fear you misunderstand my original point, which was in response to a poster stating that someone should be "educating the public about how Islam is not just another religion, but an existential threat to Western Civilization." I prefer to presume that the poster meant something a little more practical than that exactly, but taking those words at face value does raise questions. I'm not saying that our nation would suddenly go third reich on the Muslims here. What I am saying, is that should our government 'educate' the public that Islam is just as the poster describes, then that same notion becomes official, part of the social ethos and that isn't going to be good for any Muslim. In speaking of 'the masses,' I'm speaking of the effect that such an 'education' would have on the social fabric and thinking of our entire nation's population. Individuals may show common sense, rational observation, clear thinking and clear and positive action based upon such, but a mob rarely exhibits any such traits, regardless of the traits attributable to each individual. A nation's people is a mob of sorts and things can get out of hand just as easily. I'm not for one minute suggesting that such information people require to educate themselves on important matters should not be available to keep the peace. I'm saying that it may not go down too well if we present this strategy via government diktat that 'All Muslims are the enemy.' Hopefully, you see what I mean.

The Rule of Law, we are pushing for. Have you seen some of the headlines from Britain lately? There are people being beaten, shot, stabbed to death every bloody day here. In London alone there have been, if I recall correctly, 15 fatal stabbings of teenagers so far this year. For the last eight or so, every time the death has been announced, the event has been given a number: 8th...9th...10th.... All the way up to 15 or wherever it is now. Each time, the police have been savaged for their inaction, or lack of preventative strategy in practically every area of operation. The thing is, the shit they're getting is starting to roll uphill, 'cos as useless as they seem they're struggling to reach targets, while following ridiculous codes of practice and bureaucratic procedures, all imposed by the bunch of idiots in charge at the top and if you think that buck stops with the Labour government, think again: In most areas of government, most of our legislation comes right out of Brussels and the EU. That bunch of idiots couldn't organise an orgy at a brothel, though perhaps that may be a bad analogy, seeing as it's entirely likely that they could, as long as they could shift it sideways at the taxpayers' expense and write it off as a perk.

--->

--->Continued

The Labour government is far from the bigger problem here. It's not too far from the truth when people say there's no real choice in government, because no matter who you vote for, that government is still going to be subject to all areas of legislation that have so far been seceded to Brussels. If previous governments have shafted us before on Europe, none of it even begins to describe how royally Gordon Brown has fucked us by signing the Lisbon Treaty. Just in case you didn't know : They tried to foist the 'European Constitution' on us and a referendum on doing so was an election promise. It was practically guaranteed, on the evidence of every poll taken on the matter, that the British people were going to tell Brussels to piss off, so what do Gordon and his muppets do? They reword the constitution, make some vague promises on the back of an appalling record of breaking such, rename it the 'Lisbon Treaty' and grandiosely inform us that' since it's no longer an 'EU Constitution,' then they no longer have to honour any such promise of a referendum. Let me tell you TK, far better educated and politically experienced souls than I have pulled that treaty to bits and they all say the same thing: It's the same bloody thing as the Constitution...... just tinkered with.

I ask you TK...... How shafted is that? I'm at a loss to suggest how we might extricate ourselves from this farce short of a miracle and, hopefully, that may just start with, of all people, the Irish. They are getting a vote on the matter and, just as it was here, all indications are that the Irish are going to go right ahead and tell Brussels to piss off too. That will throw quite a spanner in the works of the EU's imperialistic aspirations and, if the Irish vote 'no' as expected I tell you this: Next Paddies Day, I vow I'll stand on the tables with a pint of Guinness on my head and dance a jig. Actually, I did that last time, but I'll think of something. Anyhow, try to understand that the general populace aren't too happy with the consequences of any of this, either. People being fined for having a banana skin in the wrong bin? Fined because their baby girl happens to drop a bit of sausage roll on the pavement? Their children murdered by people who would have been less likely to kill if the consequences of their crimes were just and absolute, based on the presumption that the protection of the innocent was paramount in law?........ People are getting really pissed off with the farce our daily lives are becoming, believe me.

As for the Islamic nutters and foaming-at-the-mouth imams, same goes. Full force of law applied robustly, it's simple enough. I see it, you see it, most Brits see it, but we have to shift this bloody government and the parasite that calls itself the EU off our backs and tell 'em to piss off if they stick their noses in henceforth. It'll come one day, I have no doubt. I just wish it would come a bit sooner.

I agree with everything you say with regards to investigating and prosecuting every Muslim nutjob who preaches hate and death against us, but understand that all the problems in Britain today are not primarily caused by Muslims. The nutters are only getting away with it because they play our own screwball system against us. If the system was working, they'd have no doubts as to what they'd be getting as soon as they opened their mouths, no different than idiots with knives should be aware that they will be looking at life in prison, and life meaning life, not 2 years probation, a private councillor and a playstation and 50" HD TV in their luxury cell.

It all comes down to rule of law and a strong judiciary, which we have neither of at the moment, I'm sad to say. But there are many prominent figures speaking out against the madness, many high ranking police officers begging to be released from the shackles imposed upon them by a government obsessed with regulation, in order for them to do their jobs and regain the confidence of the public.

--->

--->Continued

It frustrates me immensely that such reforms as are required are not coming fast enough for my liking, but people are getting fed up with it all and they are certainly starting to speak out.

To finish TK, 'cos I have gone on a bit, I'll leave you a simple question: If you're frustrated by the pace of protest and reform in Britain..... How do you think I feel?