[censored]

Was this an op-ed or an article? With the NYT it is not always so clear?

[deleted]

America is not Europe. We take pride in our individual liberties!

"Prominent legal scholars" leads me to immediately consider Orwell's magnificent comment - "The man must be an intellectual to believe such nonsense. No ordinary man could ever be such a fool".

re: #4 gman

America is not Europe. We take pride in our individual liberties!

And pride in periodically restoring Europe's liberties!

These people are willing to kill us! Why is nobody being offended so precious? What If the tide turns and we (religious conservatives) get to choose what is offensive? The squealing would make you think of a thousand stuck pigs....

re: #6 Nevergiveup

And pride in periodically restoring Europe's liberties!

Which they periodically throw away again.

How disgusting that Anthony Lewis should come out in favor of the heckler's veto.

The trial balloon goes up

I hate to say it, but the urine art which I will not name beats EUtopian speech codes. Burn a flag if my other choice is Canada.

The irony of a newspaper columnist arguing in favor of restrictions on free speech...

“It is not clear to me that the Europeans are mistaken,” Jeremy Waldron, a legal philosopher, wrote in The New York Review of Books last month, “when they say that a liberal democracy must take affirmative responsibility for protecting the atmosphere of mutual respect against certain forms of vicious attack.”

Do I need to add anything ? Nope. We know.

re: #7 coquimbojoe

These people are willing to kill us! Why is nobody being offended so precious? What If the tide turns and we (religious conservatives) get to choose what is offensive? The squealing would make you think of a thousand stuck pigs....

That mention of filthy pigs would offend Muslims you racist bastard.

Screw the NYT. Thank God (and the first amendment) I have the right to say that.

But even Mr. Lewis, a liberal, wrote in his book that he was inclined to relax some of the most stringent First Amendment protections “in an age when words have inspired acts of mass murder and terrorism.”

What else would you expect from a liberal?

My, gawd. They've actually forgotten what the concept of Freedom of Speech is all about.

Waste.
Of.
Newsprint.

Unlike Others, U.S. Believes Not Being Offended is a Protected Right

The greatest danger to free speech comes from the left and moderates in this country.

Well it's not like they forget where their own free expression bread is buttered. Their content has become so ineffectual and value-free (in the monetary and moral senses) that any government speech suppression would bring all other outlets down to their level of quality. It's a commercial move, really.

Mr. Steyn, the author of the article, said the Canadian proceedings had illustrated some important distinctions. “The problem with so-called hate speech laws is that they’re not about facts,” he said in a telephone interview. “They’re about feelings.”

The Muppet Show - Beaker

FCC Tries to Hush Rush

Thanks to a little-noticed item in the Federal Register, the Federal Communications Commission may soon be handed the power to drive Rush Limbaugh off the air.

There are liberals obsessed with “balancing” Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Hugh Hewitt, Mark Levin, and the rest of conservative talk radio, even though plenty of other outlets — the Washington Post, the New York Times, USA Today, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, and National Public Radio — constantly flog the liberal agenda.

The “Hush Rush” crowd’s dream has been to revive the so-called “Fairness Doctrine,” which once required any radio station airing a conservative program to provide equal time for the liberal view. The doctrine’s advocates have tried using the democratic process, but to no avail whatsoever: In 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives rejected the latest effort 309 to 115.

Yet regulations proposed on January 28 by the Federal Communications Commission would effectively reinstate the Fairness Doctrine via something called “localism.” This is legislation by stealth — most of the Fairness Doctrine’s opponents might not know about it until it’s too late. All opportunity for public comment on FCC’s proposal ceases on June 11, 2008.

/and so it starts

Too many people confuse free speech and cheap talk.

If we ban hate speech, doesn't that eliminate 99% of the leftist media?

/

Allow me to try again:

Unlike Others, U.S. Believes Not Being Offended is Not a Protected Right

re: #23 buzzsawmonkey

Too many people confuse free speech and cheap talk.

Is that similar to free sex and promises promises?

Fools! What do they intend to do when the hate-speech commissars turn around and prosecute the N.Y. Times? Or maybe they would like to bring back the Alien and Sedition Acts? Hell, make one content-based exception to the First Amendment and there is nothing to stop others.

That rag deserves to be boycotted into bankruptcy.

Part of the problem is that liberals despise most conservative thought. Simply listening to facts about single parent families, or out of wedlock births and connections to crime rates makes them come unglued.

Their ideas fall short when competing in the marketplace of ideas, hence the bankrupt Air America.

They want speech tariffs on conservative speech.

Anyone surprised?

re: #11 jones

I hate to say it, but the urine art which I will not name beats EUtopian speech codes. Burn a flag if my other choice is Canada.

I completely agree with you. When I was younger, I thought burning the flag should be illegal, but I've learned why the right to burn it is so precious.

re: #16 gman

What else would you expect from a liberal?

What is he basing that opinion on, the "principle" of "see what you made me do"?

Waldron has no right to say such a thing...

Whoops.

Waldron has no brains to say such a thing...

OK, that's better.

Hope he's not offended.
/

re: #22 Killian Bundy
Same thing every year.

re: #19 Thanos

The greatest danger to free speech comes from the left and moderates in this country.

Aint that the truth. The leftists whine and bitch about how Bush is a nazi and a fascist - not realizing how stupid they sound when they are allowed to say these things without repercussions.

the NYT will be going through a name change if Obamessiah wins:

The Daily Capitulation

CHANGE!

Give me liberty or give me death.

Steyn is right, it's America Alone - for now come next January and President Obama....
Well you know what happens.

Oh I see. Let the crazies have their say while the sane cower.

What a bunch of crap.

You know the root of this article has to be a deep, abiding cowardice. He's thinking something akin to, "free speech pisses off those who don't like us. Then they want to fight. It's better that we just don't piss them off."

Man up, Nancy. Those among us who own a set will take care of you. Just stay the hell out of the way.

This is a tough question, the problem is who decides what is hate speech? Let me decide, and I'm all for the ban.

Earlier this month, the actress Brigitte Bardot, an animal rights activist, was fined $23,000 in France for provoking racial hatred by criticizing a Muslim ceremony involving the slaughter of sheep.

This alone is reason not to follow Europe's "lead".

re: #22 Killian Bundy

FCC Tries to Hush Rush

/and so it starts

Localism

Is this what you are speaking about?

Conservatives what to change your mind, Liberals want to regulate your behavior.
The answer to bad speech isn't censorship, it's more speech.

I dunno, I think there might be a advantage to curbing free speech, for instance maybe we could silence, once and for all, the New York Times.

They've been printing hate speech against America for quite some time...

re: #6 Nevergiveup

And pride in periodically restoring Europe's liberties!

It's a vicious cycle and I don't see it ending until Europe embraces capitalism.

re: #33 Racer X

Aint that the truth. The leftists whine and bitch about how Bush is a nazi and a fascist - not realizing how stupid they sound when they are allowed to say these things without repercussions.

The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a shit whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? Dennis Miller

Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. --George Orwell

re: #24 JammieWearingFool

If we ban hate speech, doesn't that eliminate 99% of the leftist media?

/

The local branch on Air America put up advertisements at bus promising to be "Talk radio without the lies." And my thought when reading that was, what are they going to do? Broadcast dead silence?

re: #14 Nevergiveup

That mention of filthy pigs would offend Muslims you racist bastard.

/Sorry/

Free speech is an American concept...We don't need no stinking free speech here......

(Canadian Human Rights Expert....)

re: #44 Yankee Division Son

I dunno, I think there might be a advantage to curbing free speech, for instance maybe we could silence, once and for all, the New York Times.

They've been printing hate speech against America for quite some time...

Somehow, I don't believe that's what this guy has in mind.

re: #22 Killian Bundy

Don't speak your mind, just eat your waffle.

re: #48 The Other Les

The local branch on Air America put up advertisements at bus promising to be "Talk radio without the lies." And my thought when reading that was, what are they going to do? Broadcast dead silence?

It's why I've called them Dead Air America for their entire worthless existence.

Now this is a bit confusing...

Is the NYSlimes now advocating for the imposition of the very censorship that they've claimed/complained the Bush administration has placed on them, even though they very obviously (Hersch) are not being censored by any government agencies?

LOST
HIGH
WAY,
R

Waldron's vision is obscured by the lining of his colon.

And silly me I thought I should be able to refuse to wear a seatbelt, even if the risk is imminent death!

let alone being made to eat my words, if there is "risk of imminent violence".

Blah!

Wonder what other rights they want abandoned. The Second Amendment for sure. There own building was a public condemnation for private purposes.

re: #43 billhedrick

Conservatives what to change your mind, Liberals want to regulate your behavior.
The answer to bad speech isn't censorship, it's more speech.

Liberals know it all.

Conservative know that they don't know it all.

re: #35 indythinker

Give me liberty or give me death.

If only more people felt like that....

Just imagine.

re: #18 solomonpanting

Huh?

[this post censored by the NYT]

re: #48 The Other Les

The local branch on Air America put up advertisements at bus promising to be "Talk radio without the lies." And my thought when reading that was, what are they going to do? Broadcast dead silence?

They are plain nuts. Reminds me of the one or two high school kids that always dress in super extreme bizzare clothes, then complain they are picked on and no one likes them.

As an American, I find Mr. Waldron's comments deeply, deeply offensive. I hold free speech dear to my heart, in a religious manner. For offending me thus, I propose that perhaps his tongue be chopped off. I am sure he would understand my reasoning and agree to the punishment.

;-)

I am going to use the power of free choice to delete my comment in advance.

re: #33 Racer X

Aint that the truth. The leftists whine and bitch about how Bush is a nazi and a fascist - not realizing how stupid they sound when they are allowed to say these things without repercussions.

They convince themselves that speaking out against the Bushitler is daaaan-gerrrrrr-ous and daring. It would be too much for even their narcisism to have to realized that they are safe, tolerated, and even laughed at.

The notion that "hate" is a free-standing entity that can be outlawed is fundamentally evil. Everyone has, or should have, the freedom to hate if they wish, and to hate whatever they wish. What they do not have the right to do is to harm others physically in service of that hate.

Attempting to expunge part of human nature is of itself a vicious and unnatural thing. All that the power of the state can legitimately do is demand that actions in service of that baser instinct not be given free rein. Anything beyond that gets into regulation of thought.

I see plenty of reason not to be "more like the Europeans" when it comes to freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech is one of the most basic founding principles of our nation. We are the only nation in the world with the constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech. It is the very basis of our existence. While we have been placing men on the moon, preventing polio and feeding the world, the Europeans have been conducted internecine warfare for most of our existence.

I bet the New York Times would not be anywhere near so quick to suggest that we give up one of our other most basic and fundamental rights - Freedom of the Press.

We're in a war of ideas and ideals, and they wish to take away the ammo.

Why do jerks like this and the NY Times not realize they will be an early target of speech restrictions?

The solution to hateful speech is more speech, not less.
Muslims are perfectly free to peacefully explain why they find the Mohammed cartoons offensive, just as Christians are free to explain why they find "piss Christ" offensive.

I have heard how Canada passed a law against speech that demeaned women, only to have some of its first victims be the women's rights group, with a book they had giving examples of such demeaning speech and why it is so bad.

I hate the muslim terrorists.

Now lock me up........

Fox is buying Little Mosque on the Prairie?

Doh I don't want to submit Marge!

re: #66 infidelia

Doing dangerous and daring stuff is dangerous.

The NYT should move to Europe, where they belong.

re: #55 Render

Now this is a bit confusing...

Is the NYSlimes now advocating for the imposition of the very censorship that they've claimed/complained the Bush administration has placed on them, even though they very obviously (Hersch) are not being censored by any government agencies?

LOST
HIGH
WAY,
R

Render always leaves the best signatures :)

And the next time one of their 'journalists' writes an inane article slamming women with thick ankles or men with thin ankles, they should be sued.

See how they like it then. Hate speech laws are The Blob.

re: #57 medaura18586

And silly me I thought I should be able to refuse to wear a seatbelt, even if the risk is imminent death!

let alone being made to eat my words, if there is "risk of imminent violence".

Blah!

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

One of the sentences Steyn is being tried for writing is,

"Muslims will breed like mosquitoes"

That offended some Muslims in Canada. The irony is, Steyn was quoting a Muslim, Mullah Krakar. Krakar is a Muslim extremist wanted for terrorism related charges in his native Iraq. Krakar lives as a political exile in Norway, where his right to print hate literature is protected by Norway's liberal laws. Krakar is free to write, "Muslims will breed like mosquitoes" (he said it as a boast as to how Islam will dominate Europe) without threat of prosecution. Mark Steyn quoted Krakar and is being persecuted for it.

How's that for irony?

What a f[censored] mo[censored] he is!

Hey Barry...is there enough room under that bus for free speech?

re: #28 DistantThunder

Part of the problem is that liberals despise most conservative thought. Simply listening to facts about single parent families, or out of wedlock births and connections to crime rates makes them come unglued.

Airplanes never crashed in the old Soviet Union, either. And until he was overthrown, you never had all this terrible violence in Iraq under Saddam.

Right, Mr. Jordan?

re: #49 coquimbojoe

/Sorry/

The sad part is that you and I were both joking but up in Canada we might actually have been in trouble?

And I believe this is the reason for Steyn's book title: America Alone.

It is PRECISELY why Steyn believes the US has a future, and Western Europe, does not.

(That, and our tendency to pump out American babies)

“It is not clear to me that the Europeans are mistaken,” Jeremy Waldron, a legal philosopher, wrote in The New York Review of Books

And that, 'Dr.' Waldron, is why you are a legal philosopher know one has heard of, and Steyn is a best selling author.

re: #77 DistantThunder

Thank God he's alright! I bet you were rather shaken up too...

re: #78 Kenneth

That's a tricky part of hate speech laws, when you can be prosecuted for quoting someone else's thought.

re: #77 DistantThunder

Glad your son is alright. Thanks God (and the inventor) for the seat belts.

re: #77 DistantThunder

Crap!

Young men and fast machines....Glad he was not seriously hurt...

re: #78 Kenneth

One of the sentences Steyn is being tried for writing is,

That offended some Muslims in Canada. The irony is, Steyn was quoting a Muslim, Mullah Krakar. Krakar is a Muslim extremist wanted for terrorism related charges in his native Iraq. Krakar lives as a political exile in Norway, where his right to print hate literature is protected by Norway's liberal laws. Krakar is free to write, "Muslims will breed like mosquitoes" (he said it as a boast as to how Islam will dominate Europe) without threat of prosecution. Mark Steyn quoted Krakar and is being persecuted for it.

How's that for irony?

You can't make this stuff up.

#67

Oh Buzz! (Swoon!) Perfectly said!

So, these legal scholars think that if some not-to-be-named religion makes it a habit and practice of responding to criticism with murder, arson, and mayhem, then it should be illegal to point out that pattern, because to do so will trigger more of the same.

Some prominent legal scholars say the United States should reconsider its position on hate speech.

Bull.Shit.

Who?

/thank you Ivy League

re: #77 DistantThunder

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

Thank goodness he's going to be all right.

re: #90 lostlakehiker

hatethoughtcrime.

re: #77 DistantThunder

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

Somebody was watching out for that young man.

Jason Gratl, a lawyer for the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association and the Canadian Association of Journalists, which have intervened in the case in support of the magazine, was measured in his criticism of the law forbidding hate speech.
“Canadians do not have a cast-iron stomach for offensive speech,” Mr. Gratl said in a telephone interview. “We don’t subscribe to a marketplace of ideas. Americans as a whole are more tough-minded and more prepared for verbal combat.”

You "don’t subscribe to a marketplace of ideas." Yep, you allow someone else to dictate which ideas are to be peddled.

“Canadians do not have a cast-iron stomach for offensive speech,” Mr. Gratl said in a telephone interview. “We don’t subscribe to a marketplace of ideas. Americans as a whole are more tough-minded and more prepared for verbal combat.”

Their ideas are dispensed by the government?

re: #77 DistantThunder

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

Ouch, very sorry to hear. Is he alright though? I mean,... considering.

I don't wear a seatbelt unless whoever is driving the car urges me to because s/he would get fined if I got caught without one. I just hate seatbelts and I don't think it should be the government's role to protect me from my (admittedly) poor safety choices. If I get into an accident, I don't claim anyone else should be forced to pay for my emergency care either.

So see? no externalities.

Hope your son recovers soon though.

re: #84 Kenneth

Thank God he's alright! I bet you were rather shaken up too...

And thank God for airbags. Yes, Mr. DT was out of town but on his way home in time to pick him up from the hospital with me because....I no longer have a car....but I do not have a car.

Mr. DT was also out of town last week when son, 9, stepped on a rusty nail.

You know...that silly Constitution and Bill of Rights thingy is soooo 18th Century.

re: #85 jaunte

The people who complained about Steyn when he wrote it, probably agreed with Mullah Krakar when he said it.

re: #90 lostlakehiker

So, these legal scholars think that if some not-to-be-named religion makes it a habit and practice of responding to criticism with murder, arson, and mayhem, then it should be illegal to point out that pattern, because to do so will trigger more of the same.

Bullies think like this.

re: #77 DistantThunder

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

{Distant Thunder}

I am so thankful for his safety.

re: #69 Mars Needs Neocons

We're in a war of ideas and ideals, and they wish to take away the ammo.

Yeah.

And I'd advise those prominent legal scholars to not bring knives. This will be a gun fight.

re: #82 Nevergiveup

The sad part is that you and I were both joking but up in Canada we might actually have been in trouble?

That is sad. We may be on the path to hell, so to speak...

re: #83 Maine's Michael

know one has heard of?

Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman.

re: #96 wrenchwench

Yes, it's called the CBC.

Allah Ipecac
Muhammad Ipecac

Bite my shiny metal ass.

re: #77 DistantThunder

My son, 19, was in a bad car accident last night. Wrapped MY car around a tree on the rain slicked road. he was wearing a seatbelt but only the bottom part, the top he had tucked behind his arm. he cracked the windshield with his hard head - no bumps on his head. Bruised arms and knee caps.

The lap belts can be surprisingly effective. My first accident (1984) I only had a lap belt and I was injured less severely than in the second with a shoulder-lap even though the speed and angle were very similar. Won't be without some sort of seat belt though.

re: #100 Kenneth

It's odd that Krekar's brag, when uttered by a non-muslim, would be the occasion for a seethe.

A Time for Choosing - Ronald Reagan

Yeah, when it was just Christians getting angry, the NYT and their liberal pundits were balls to the wall free speechers...but now it's somebody who's scaring them and it's time to shut up.
So here's a question: which is more disgusting, their cowardice or their lack of principle?
As for the acts of terrorism, note the complete lack of responsibility, it's our job not to annoy them. First it will be silence, then next it's agreement, or else. I wouldn't expect any of these jackasses to figure that out.

re: #81 Dar ul Harb

Airplanes never crashed in the old Soviet Union, either. And until he was overthrown, you never had all this terrible violence in Iraq under Saddam.

Right, Mr. Jordan?

A Soviet (formerly Italian) battleship blew up and sank at anchor. That was covered up too.

re: #94 galloping granny

Oh... oh ... oh.... I know who! I know who!
It was [censored].

As President I will immediately clean out the NY Times building and turn it into a center for cybernauts. With really big fat data pipes. And lotsa chairs.

re: #95 solomonpanting

You "don’t subscribe to a marketplace of ideas." Yep, you allow someone else to dictate which ideas are to be peddled.

That is why we are America and they are not.

I suddenly have an urge to run through the Slimes' building screaming, "FIRE!".

re: #78 Kenneth

One of the sentences Steyn is being tried for writing is,

That offended some Muslims in Canada. The irony is, Steyn was quoting a Muslim, Mullah Krakar. Krakar is a Muslim extremist wanted for terrorism related charges in his native Iraq. Krakar lives as a political exile in Norway, where his right to print hate literature is protected by Norway's liberal laws. Krakar is free to write, "Muslims will breed like mosquitoes" (he said it as a boast as to how Islam will dominate Europe) without threat of prosecution. Mark Steyn quoted Krakar and is being persecuted for it.

How's that for irony insanity?

Fixed it for ya.

re: #110 Catttt

A Time for Choosing - Ronald Reagan

You're gonna make me cry now.

re: #109 jaunte

It's odd that Krekar's brag, when uttered by a non-muslim, would be the occasion for a seethe.

The rage of Caliban seeing himself in a mirror.

#67 buzzsawmonkey perfectly said
sounded a little like Ayn Rand.