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Daily Kos Posts Obama 'Birth Certificate'

Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:56:41 am PDT

Markos “Screw Them” Moulitsas has posted what he says is Barack Obama’s birth certificate, with no explanation of how he obtained it: Daily Kos: Obama’s birth certificate.

It looks genuine. But Moulitsas is definitely not a trustworthy source. I need details on how he got this image before I’ll completely believe it. The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives. Is the Obama campaign now leaking things to Daily Kos, or did Moulitsas misrepresent himself to the state of Hawaii to get it?

(Hat tip: Hot Air.)

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:12:09 am:

This is NOT a birth certificate, it’s a “certification of live birth” — a slightly different thing.

And yes, the campaign did give it to Moulitsas for posting; he says so in the comments.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:21:56 am:

LGF reader Jinxmedic has some more information:

A “certificate of live birth” is a government extract of the original birth certificate filed with the state or commonwealth. The certificate shown on Kos’ page is what you would get if you applied for a duplicate of an existing birth certificate, in the event that you needed it for employment or identification, or whatever. It is NOT a copy of the original document, simply the extracted information printed onto a proprietary paper at the time of the request. So, yes, a certificate of live birth from 1961 can be authentic, printed via Microsoft Word with a laser printer.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: Daily Kos: Eulogy before the Inevitability of Self-Destruction: The Decline and Death of Israel.

Israel embody the vessel of boiling blood of horror and perfidy in demonic vileness for its pattern of terrorism and murder in the name of Zionist ideology. It has earned the arsenal of nuclear warheads through stolen intelligence in betrayal, estimated to number between 200 to over 500, through a covert development at Dimona underground nuclear reactor built in the late 50’s, to which President Kennedy, as an anti-nuclear weapon peacenik who signed Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, objected and had considerable tense relationship with the then-Third Prime Minister David Ben Gurion before his abrupt resignation for “personal reasons” on June 21, 1963. After the murder of JFK, Israel has extended its Zionistic tentacle to grasp the United States by the neck to leech on to that manifest the radical foreign policy about-face to morally and materially support State of Israel in no uncertain (and unconditional) terms.

With Israel as a formidably superior power to Arabic and Central Asian states - and impress the world at large - because of its proven military prowess (excepting rare cases of conceding defeat such as 2006 Israel-Lebanon War) backed by the intimidating Schwarzeneggerian military strength of Uncle Sam as its puppet like Master Blaster from the film Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome that hold power truce with the present world civilization, Israel has determined the fate of the world at large with its superb conniving faculty veiled in the art of influence and might.

With the secret nuclear warhead arsenals scattered in secure storages and seated in the racks of the bomber planes and on the head of the missiles awaiting idle somewhere in the conquered land, Israel’s conceited sense of its right to rule the world as the “chosen” children, in part or whole, cannot be had without the hijacking of the financial and military sectors of Imperial West to facilitate the culture of a misanthrophically destructive program in subduing the Middle East region for its consumption in drinking the wine of despotic power to expand by the proxies of war.

Drunken by its belief of entitlement and arrogance - as well as inability to streamline the management of the Israeli economy for great liberalization of the sluggish economy beset by bureaucratic incompetence and vanity because it feeds on the carcass of the financial corpses of the United States and Germany in reparations perpetuated in the name of the victims of the Nazi Holocaust (which enlightened the Zionists to convene the fulfillment of Theodor Herzl’s penile fantasy for the permanent home of the scattered tribe of brutish and incorrigible Ashkenazi Khazar descendants to assimilate the customs, culture and genetics of the ancient Israelites) - Israel now believes it has the power to exercise control of the region by subversive means even if the result will be counterproductive that may end in disastrous blowback not only for Israel but also precipitate the accelerated fall of the United States in economic and moral collapse in mismanagement of the host nation’s priorities.

When Israel loses in the great hypothetical battle of Megiddo in the unforeseeable future, it shall deploy the spread wings of nuclear warheads to destroy adversaries and allies in the obliteration of innumerable millions of human beings, animals and organic life, inferring its conceived truth of absolute moral relativism as having possessed annihilative power in taking the world down with Israel in the orgiastically ethnocentric finale of existentially triumphant self-destruction as the ultimately defeated enemy of the civilized world.

This is the bidding of a farewell formed in the extension of a middle finger by the militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect that - resolved they be - believe in - by genetic predisposition and/or indoctrination from birth - supremacism of the Master Race, because they have accomplished the goal of procreating State of Israel to dominate in hegemony by the art of seduction, after centuries of persecution and expulsion on charge of treason by subversion of host nations, blood rituals in human sacrifice of Gentile children, corruption and ravishing of women, conspiracy to injure and murder esteemed officers & rulers and usurious & fraudulent deed in union with the spiritual descendants of the wicked Jews of the extinct Sadducee sect, the persecutor and abetted executioner of Jesus Christ, propagating fruition of the species as the “Chosen One” and bringing the world to its knees without mercy for subservience and obedience by slavery (brainwash) and tyranny.

And the owner of the site, Markos Moulitsas, is himself notorious for this disgusting remark about the Americans who were burned alive, torn apart, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah near the start of the Iraq War: Daily Kos :: Comments Corpses on the Cover.

Every death should be on the front page (2.70 / 40)

Let the people see what war is like. This isn’t an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush’s folly.

That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

by kos on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 12:08:56 PM PDT

Nice company the Obama campaign is keeping.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 11:15:24 am:

And another interesting note; for years, Daily Kos had a redirection in place on the site, to prevent people from linking directly to Moulitsas’ ugly comment. Details here: Kos: Proud of ‘Screw Them’.

That redirect has been removed, and links to Moulitsas’ comment now work.

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1 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:57:43am

Time to authenticate boys and girls.

old school LGF style.

2 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:57:45am

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.

3 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:57:58am

Go go throbbing birth certificate!

/disturbing Inspector Gadget

4 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:58:20am

It doesn't look like it was done on Word for Windows?

5 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:58:24am

Stranger things have happened. Or Kos himself got punked.

6 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:58:30am

Mine (Boston, MA) looks nothing like that.

Not that all states would look the same.

7 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:58:56am

Are there any astrologists here?

8 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:58:56am

and it's only official if it has a raised seal....

9 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:59:08am

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

10 gibsonz  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:59:19am

Markos “Screw Them” Moulitsas fabricate or post something untrue...certainly not!
///////////////////////////

11 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:59:33am
The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives. Is the Obama campaign now leaking things to Daily Kos?

If this is authentic, I question why the Obama campaign would not go widespread public on it (as it was a point of controversy), and if it has nothing contriversial about it why they would have not handed it over originally.

12 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:59:51am
13 zmdavid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:59:51am
The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives.


Maybe Obama's related to Kos.

14 DoubleU  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:06am

From Hot Air

Update: Not that it matters for purposes of addressing Geraghty’s concerns, but Flip notes that the posted document is a certification of birth, which is slightly different from a birth certificate.
15 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:14am

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

From BHO himself?

16 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:15am

That's a photoshop job if I recognize one. Anyone up for crimesolving?

17 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:18am

I'm skeptical. Looks too simple.

18 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:24am

Markos: The Farce is strong with this one....

19 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:00:44am

Where's the little foot prints?

20 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:01:06am

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only release birth certificates to relatives:

and you can't request if using the FOIA:

(from the Hawaii Uniform Information Practices Act)



What is a significant privacy interest? (§ 92F-14)

The UIPA lists some specific examples of the types of information in which an individual has a significant privacy interest. The list includes information about an individual’s:

(1) Medical history, condition, and treatment;
(2) Criminal law investigation, except where disclosure is necessary to prosecute or continue the investigation;
(3) Eligibility for social services or welfare benefits;
(4) Public employment personnel file type information, except information required to be disclosed under § 92F-12(a)(14) and employee misconduct information if employee is suspended or discharged; or for county police officers if discharged;
(5) Nongovernmental employment history except where information qualifies a government employee for his or her position;
(6) Financial information;

(7) Professional and vocational licensee
qualifications except:
(a) certain discipline information;
(b) current employment information and
required insurance coverage of licensee;
and
(c) complaints and dispositions;
(8) Personal recommendations or evaluations; and
(9) Social security numbers.

OIP has further recognized that an individual has a significant privacy interest in his or her home contact information, date of birth, and ethnicity.

21 bulwrk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:01:16am

re: #2 loppyd

no hospital, no attending physician, no address of parents, no occupation of parents etc. thats pretty standard on all birth certificates.

22 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:01:52am

Would it surprise you if Obama _did_ leak to Kos? I mean, their ideology is remarkably similar.

23 snowcrash  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:03am

Where is the hospital or home location of birth?

24 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:24am

I have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Baltimore, 1964). It's a photocopy with a stamp. Since it's a photocopy, the text is TYPEWRITTEN.

This seems to be info typed on a computer.

25 kynna  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:30am

If it's for real, the relationship with Kos is more damaging than any speculation that could happen.

Just more evidence that Obama can't run an administration and has no business running this country.

26 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:34am

re: #9 Charles

I would guess it was leaked from the Obama campaign. I don't think Kos would publish it without their permission.

27 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:34am

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

28 Old_Maid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:46am

Just logging on real quick...I was born in Honolulu in 1969 and my birth certificate looks nothing like that! Mine is differently shaped, and has a LOT more information on it. It's not square, it's oblong.

29 Golem Akbar  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:49am

If it's authentic, then that proves Obama could not be the Messiah. You know, no immaculate conception, no messiah.
(oh okay ////)

30 blutonazi98  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:49am

did Kos get it from Dan Rather?

31 Just Another Four-letter Word  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:02:52am

I'm sure there are many moonbats/LLLs in Hawaii working in the Gubmint that wouldn't have any qualms about leaking something like this to Markos or whomever.

Just sayin'

JAFLW

32 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:03:07am

So his name isn't Barry?

33 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:03:15am

re: #17 Noam Sayin'

I'm skeptical. Looks too simple.

Yeah, I agree. My birth certificate looks like it's been run through the guano machine due to age and fading, and Barry's 9 years older than me....

I call BS.

34 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:03:22am

re: #2 loppyd

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.


Charles?

35 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:03:22am

bbl

36 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:03:59am

Scanned at 60dpi?

37 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:22am

What should appear on a Hawaii birth certificate:

ANOTHER UPDATE: Craig, a Campaign Spot reader born in Hawaii in 1962, offers the type of information on his birth certificate:

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' contains nothing that could be considered controversial. Some sample entries:

#3. This Birth (box to check) Single, Twin, Triplet

#9. Race of Father

#10. Age of Father

#11. Birthplace (of father)

#12a Usual Occupation

#12b. Kind of Business or Industry

#14. Race of Mother

#17a. Type of Occupation Outside Home During Pregnancy

#17b. Date Last Worked

#18a. Signature of Parent or Other Informant (with check box to signify which has signed)

38 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:34am

But first...THIS OT:

Report: Terror Suspects Plotted to Set Up Islamic State in Scotland

No. Really. The Pali - ISraeli conflict is all about land.

39 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:36am

re: #21 bulwrk

no hospital, no attending physician, no address of parents, no occupation of parents etc. thats pretty standard on all birth certificates.

Does anyone have an example of a Hawaiian birth certificate? Here's an interesting one...

40 maddogg  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:51am

This whole thing stinks like 3 day old fish.

41 pat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:53am

Let me make an observation about the Hawaiian BCs I have at hand.
They are laid out in a grid of boxes on a half sheet. They do not have the State seal on them, rather a simple reference to the Department of Health, Reasearch and Statistics Office. The exact hospital and its address is typed in as well as the delivering doctor who must sign. Exact time of day of birth is indicated, as well as varoius Health Department things , like exact moment BC was registered. Age and home address of each parent is requested.Also whether baby was born within city limita. All middle names required.Parent must sign

42 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:55am

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

I think it was faxed.

Like certain documents from a Texas Kinkos a couple of years ago ...

43 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:04:56am

Legal search engine: HRS 338-13(b), 338-19.

44 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:14am

Now, that said, we may be able to backdoor FOIA the same information from the State of Illinois. He would have needed it to run for public office.

Illinois FOIA page
Illinois FOIA Guide and Act

I could find nothing in there that would prevent looking for a copy of his birth record that would've been used to authenticate his citizenship. Maybe there is something, maybe not.

45 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:24am

I guess this dispells all those Immaculate Conception internet rumors....

BBL.

46 Thanos  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:25am

Would a 1961 Birth Certificate in 1961 list race as "African" ?

47 dmh0667  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:33am

Daily KOS:

And Behold, I, Markos of Screw'em, bring ye proof that in the year of their lord 1961, in the city of Honolulu, a Child was born....

48 Spiritualized  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:49am

Seriously, how stupid does Kos think we are?

the posted document is a certification of birth, which is slightly different from a birth certificate.

Then we still need the real thing don't we! And if indeed the original is as innocuous as this 'certification of birth', then it would've been released officially by Obama's team.

49 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:07am

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

Don't know, but that could explain when the document was printed. It's on a form revision 11/01. So we know this clearly isn't his original birth certificate. Doesn't mean that it's bogus.

It would help to learn the provenance as to how they came to obtain it. More to the point, why leak to Kos when it would have been far easier and more believable to send it to the news agencies and media outlets. Seems strange that the campaign would go the route of a truly partisan blogger instead of an established outlet.

Heck, they could have posted the thing to the Obama website. Instead, we get this.

Curious. Very curious.

50 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:19am

re: #33 Power Armored Lizardoid

Yeah, I agree. My birth certificate looks like it's been run through the guano machine due to age and fading, and Barry's 9 years older than me....

I call BS.

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

51 BigDog  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:22am

In my state the birth certs are a photocopy of the original, obviously that one isn't, don't know how they do it in HI. You will notice that it is on a form dated 11/01, some 40yrs after the event (lower left corner) and printed on a laser printer. Could be the way they do it there, but I would like to see a copy from a little closer to the actual birth date.

52 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:23am

re: #43 MandyManners

Legal search engine: HRS 338-13(b), 338-19.

I can't find anything.

53 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:24am

He probably did get it from the campaign. In today's TIME article it says the campaign plans to post a .pdf of Obama's birth certificate on the FightTheSmears site

54 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:25am

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

I saw that date too.... It looks like a recent copy missing a lot of info. I found something that looks much different....

55 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:32am

Uhhhhh..

Am I missing somthing?

My Birth Certificate from 1965 was typed. The County of San Mateo couldn't afford laser printers at the time. When I have had to provide a birth certificate and get a copy from the county, they get me a copy off of what I assume is microfiche.

56 gibsonz  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:34am

My Virginia birth certificate is filled in by hand and looks fake but has alot of information on it that I don`t see on this one...hospital...physician...seal...etc.

57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:37am

Why redact the certificate number, the one thing which could be used to establish it was a certified true copy?

58 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:06:49am

re: #34 Ringo the Gringo

Charles?

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

59 jpfletcher  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:20am

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

60 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:22am

re: #49 lawhawk

Do you have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

61 dawnfire82  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:26am

HotAir comments reference some... oddities. Like listing 'African' as a race, and omitting the Hospital. There seems to be some confusion as to the accuracy of his birthday, as well.

Not to mention that it looks like floating text put on top of a background. I've never seen any kind of state document printed on a high resolution laser printer before.

I'm inclined to believe it's BS.

62 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:33am

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

Oh. I thought you were.

My mistake.

63 pissed  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:49am

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

64 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:59am

re: #51 BigDog

In my state the birth certs are a photocopy of the original, obviously that one isn't, don't know how they do it in HI. You will notice that it is on a form dated 11/01, some 40yrs after the event (lower left corner) and printed on a laser printer. Could be the way they do it there, but I would like to see a copy from a little closer to the actual birth date.

it's not the original. can't be.

I wasn't born until 1970 and mine is typed.

65 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:07:59am

"Aloha, my name is Markos Moulitsas Hussein Kos Obama, and I need to get a copy of..."

66 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:06am

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

What?

67 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:10am

Were they using that font in 1961? (They weren't using computers were they? So would it have come from a Typewriter?)

This looks like a presently printed document possibly using information from the original. This cannot be the original IMHO.

68 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:16am

re: #28 Old_Maid

Just logging on real quick...I was born in Honolulu in 1969 and my birth certificate looks nothing like that! Mine is differently shaped, and has a LOT more information on it. It's not square, it's oblong.

What sort of information appears on it? I take it, it would have city, county, and island, but does it also have the doctor, hospital, etc?

And, would it be possible to run a check of this by comparing it to a newer printout of a Hawai'i birth certificate?

69 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:27am

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

Darn it!

70 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:30am

re: #63 pissed

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

looks a little different to me.....

71 Seaberry  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:31am

Barack Hussein Obama ll. He's elite...no "Jr" for him. ;-)

72 fsjonesy  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:08:38am

I call BS.

I was born in 1990 and my birth certificate was printed with a typewriter.
This just looks too new.
Also, there's no birthweight, no attending physician listed, and no hospital.

73 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:00am

re: #55 karmic_inquisitor

Uhhhhh..

Am I missing somthing?

My Birth Certificate from 1965 was typed. The County of San Mateo couldn't afford laser printers at the time. When I have had to provide a birth certificate and get a copy from the county, they get me a copy off of what I assume is microfiche.

I was born at Sequoia Hospital in 1965, and yes mine is typed, and my copies are off microfiche... Hawaii could laser print in 1959 and that Rather letter was possible too.

74 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:01am

re: #63 pissed

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

What year, though?

75 pat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:04am

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

But I was and I have a few of these right next to me

76 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:17am

re: #70 loppyd

looks a little different to me.....

They look identical to me.

/Dan Rather off

77 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:20am

Mine also lists the attending physician and the hospital where I was born.

78 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:27am

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

That could be just the copy on the web site.

79 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:27am

I born in Illinois before Barack and my birth certificate doesn't anything to being that neat.

80 jpfletcher  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:31am

re: #66 MandyManners

What?

I downloaded a copy of the birth cert. from Kos and right clicked on the file and viewed it's properties.

81 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:40am

re: #19 Ringo the Gringo

They'll be throbbing in invisible ink.

82 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:40am

HRS 338-18 is "Disclosure of records"
HRS 338-19 is "Photostatic or typewritten copies of records"

But no b
[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

83 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:41am

re: #76 karmic_inquisitor

They look identical to me.

/Dan Rather off

fake but accurate

/couldn't resist

84 krypto  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:54am

There's a faint date stamp of June 6, 2007 showing through, reversed of course, from the back of the alleged certificate. That would mean it was issued a year ago, if real.

85 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:06am

re: #72 fsjonesy


I was born in 1990 and my birth certificate was printed with a typewriter.
This just looks too new.

Shouldn't you be at school right now?

86 jpfletcher  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:12am

re: #78 itellu3times

It could, I'm just saying.

88 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:28am

re: #60 MandyManners

Do you have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

I have westlaw

89 Old_Maid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:44am

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

90 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:45am

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

Nah, the more I look at the whole 'document' the more fake it looks. I don't have much experience with Photoshop, and I only own an old version 7 copy, but I believe I could come up with something more believable than this in 2 or 3 hours....

91 ruexperienced  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:49am

It IS just a certification, not the actual birth certificate.

With that said, it still looks like a blatant fake.

Considering the source, my money's on Moulitsas pulling a fast one...

The libtards will do ANYTHING to win in November !

92 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:56am

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

The document was probably scanned into Photoshop.

93 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:10:58am

re: #71 Seaberry

Barack Hussein Obama ll. He's elite...no "Jr" for him. ;-)

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

94 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:02am

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

95 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:02am

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

96 Resize  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:18am

Fakeroony.....Everyone knows that O!bama came from the Gods cabbage patch...

97 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:29am

The background green pattern does not appear behind any of the letters that I can see, which would make this a low-quality photoshop forgery.

Also, anything original from 1961 would not have the word "laser" on it, the text would have been typed and much more uneven.

But even if this were a legal laser printer reprint, I'd expect to see the green pattern make it through even the very crude scanning this seems to have gone through.

98 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:30am

There appears to be a date stamped on the back of the KOS copy. It says: June 7, 2007
You need to zoom in to see it.

99 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:31am

re: #80 jpfletcher

I downloaded a copy of the birth cert. from Kos and right clicked on the file and viewed it's properties.

What does it mean, though?

100 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:33am

re: #67 WrathofG-d

I learned to type on a ROYAL manual typewriter. Those were fun.

101 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:40am

re: #94 Ward Cleaver

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

Me too!

Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuwwwwwwww.

:D

Hi Ward!

102 pat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:11:55am

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Exactly. See my #41

103 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:04am

re: #74 MandyManners

What year, though?

The birthdate on that one is 1919.

104 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:15am

re: #93 goddessoftheclassroom

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

The mother can put the father's name on the birth certificate. It has nothing to do with marriage.

105 Sizzlack  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:29am

You know Obama is going to have some problems this fall when there are already middle of the road Democrats who wont endorse him...

106 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:41am

re: #76 karmic_inquisitor

Did you grow up on the penninsula? I grew up in Portola Valley and Palo Alto.... You still around there?

107 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:46am

re: #104 MandyManners

The mother can put the father's name on the birth certificate. It has nothing to do with marriage.

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks.

108 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:47am

re: #95 MandyManners

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

I think that may have rubbed off from another document, or came from th back side of this one, as it was folded.

109 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:48am

re: #98 unrealizedviewpoint

There appears to be a date stamped on the back of the KOS copy. It says: June 7, 2007
You need to zoom in to see it.

I see it as June 6.

110 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:12:50am

re: #77 loppyd

Mine also lists the attending physician and the hospital where I was born.

Ditto for mine, and it lists my parents' social security numbers. Mine from 1977, Michigan is typed, and the date that it was received at the city is stamped on it. If I go back to get it, I will get a photocopy of the original kept on file by the state.

111 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:12am

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

The birthdate on that one is 1919.

I imagine the format changed.

112 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:15am

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:21am

re: #89 Old_Maid


Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.


This isn't the original, it appears to be a reissue from last week.

114 snowtravel  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:22am

Certification of live birth=birth certificate.

115 JustAHouseWife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:31am

My husband was born on Oahu in 1962. I'll have to ask him when he comes home from work if this looks the same as his birth certificate. Like someone else says, the document should have the parents names on it I would think. Finding out the hospital name and town would be of use. Not everyone on Oahu lives in the city of Honolulu; my husbands parents lived on the North Shore; and he was born in a hospital near the army base in the central part of the island.

116 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:42am

it looks so crisp and clean. like something you'd get at a bank or from an insurance company.

117 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:13:55am

re: #110 Honorary Yooper

Ditto for mine, and it lists my parents' social security numbers. Mine from 1977, Michigan is typed, and the date that it was received at the city is stamped on it. If I go back to get it, I will get a photocopy of the original kept on file by the state.

I recently had to get mine and it was a photocopy - but it had a raised seal on it. No seal on this one.

118 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:14:10am

From the State of Hawaii website:

Tracing Your Genealogy

The general rule of thumb in determining 50 percent blood quantum is to submit enough documentation tracing your genealogy to your full Hawaiian ancestor(s). Some applicants need only go back one or two generations - that is, to their grandparents.

Others may need to go back further, gathering pieces of information which eventually grow into a large family tree with roots beginning with full Hawaiian ancestors.

However, before starting your search for acceptable documents, kuka, or consult with your ohana. They are an invaluable source of information. Once you've "talked story" you should be better prepared to begin gathering the documentation needed to show eligibility for the program.

There are two categories of documents used in determining eligibility: primary and secondary.

Primary Documents

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:

* A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
* A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
* A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

You will need the certified birth certificates for:

* Yourself
* Your biological father; and
* Your biological mother

The state Department of Health, (DOH), Vital Records Section, records documents by island and district (geographically) and by the date of the event (chronologically).

If your biological parents' documents don't clearly prove that you have at least 50 percent Hawaiian ancestry, you will also need certified birth certificates for:

* Your biological father's parents; and
* Your biological mother's parents.

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

Please note that DOH no longer offers same day service. If you plan on picking up your certified DOH document(s), you should allow at least 10 working days for DOH to process your request(s), OR four to six weeks if you want your certified certificate(s) mailed to you.

In the event the Vital Records Section does not have a birth certificate for any of your parents or grandparents, they will issue a "No-record" certification. "No-record" certification means after searching its records, the DOH cannot find the requested birth certificates. Please submit this "No-record" certification with your other documents to DHHL.

If you are adopted, your biological birth record is probably sealed. In this instance, DHHL staff may be able to assist you in getting the ethnicity of your biological parents. Additionally, depending on your particular circumstance the Family Court may be able to help you get the information you need. If your adoption occurred in the State of Hawaii, you may be able to get a copy of your original birth certificate. Access to out of state adoption records, however, vary according to the respective jurisdiction.

119 kywrite  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:14:11am

re: #2 loppyd

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.

I have a friend who was born around that time here in HI -- when she wakes up, I'll see if she has hers laying around. The font looks mighty pretty to me. Y'all see the date stamp down toward the mid-bottom -- in anything less than full mag, it just looks like a smudge? Says June 07. That could be part of authentication. I don't see any other official looking stamping on it tho.

120 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:14:16am

re: #39 coquimbojoe

Does anyone have an example of a Hawaiian birth certificate? Here's an interesting one...

That one is dated 1967, so it might be what Obama's should look like.

121 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:14:31am

This is like John Effin Kerry "releasing" his military records to the Boston Globe.

WHAT. EV. AH.

122 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:14:59am

re: #94 Ward Cleaver

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

As do I.

I call bullshit, Markos.

123 Old_Maid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:04am

re: #68 Honorary Yooper

What sort of information appears on it? I take it, it would have city, county, and island, but does it also have the doctor, hospital, etc?

I am at work now, and my birth cert is at home .. if this is still a topic of lively interest at 1600, I'll describe it better. It looks nothing like Hussein Obama's posted one in Kos, though. Not a bit.

124 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:31am

Y'all might find this site interesting Hawaii Birth Certificate dot com

125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:49am

I had to pick up my kid's birth certifcate for school and unless things have changed a lot it is missing:

Place of Birth - Hospital name, clinic or home address
Witnesses/informer - Person who confirmed the birth
Certifer - Person who was licensed to review and certify the information was correct
Registrar - The person to whom the BC was submitted to and when it was accepted as the birth certificate

126 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:51am

re: #101 loppyd

Me too!

Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuwwwwwwww.

:D

Hi Ward!

Hi sweetie!

So when are you and the BF getting hitched?

127 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:54am

re: #109 MandyManners

I see it as June 6.

as I throw my hands in the air- 6,7 whatever!
:)

128 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:15:56am

re: #112 Rogue198

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

Why would they release it to KOS?

129 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:16:09am

OK, there is a little green behind some of the letters.

The crude scan makes it hard to tell.

If it's at all real, it's a reissue, and who knows, maybe they intentionally leave off a lot of detail on reissues.

130 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:16:27am

It looks similar to what New York prints when you request an official copy of a birth certificate. What I don't see is any indication that there's a raised seal on the document. I would expect a pattern of shadows at the least.

131 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:16:50am

Looking at the Hi-Res sample from Kos I can tell you this:
The state of Hawaii needs to talk to their printer about the grain direction of the paper they use. There is an obvious crease (look in the state seal area) running across the sheet. That's tough on the laser printer and raises questions as to authenticity.

132 kywrite  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:16:55am

re: #31 Just Another Four-letter Word

I'm sure there are many moonbats/LLLs in Hawaii working in the Gubmint that wouldn't have any qualms about leaking something like this to Markos or whomever.

Just sayin'

JAFLW

This is true. I can attest to that.

133 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:03am

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

Maybe he went crawling under the bus to rescue Obama's grandmother and she got it for him in return.

134 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:04am

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

Hawaii became a state in the late 1950's didn't it?

135 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:16am

re: #112 Rogue198

Yes, when you request a copy of a birth certificate from whatever locality you were born in, you're not necessarily going to get the same exact copy as the original - because the form on which such information is printed has changed over time. I know that the NYC birth records are formatted differently today than when I was born, and if I were to request a new birth certificate, it would not appear the same way as the original, though the information would all be present.

It also appears that Kos got it from the Obama campaign, so that would explain how it came into his hands. Still curious why Obama would go that route.

136 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:22am

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

The fish rots from the head

137 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:37am

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

Very, very interesting. So Hawai'i uses two different, yet similar sounding forms.

138 rollingdivision  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:42am

African as a choice of race in 1961? I wonder......

139 bulwrk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:17:59am

re: #134 WrathofG-d

1959

140 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:14am

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I had to pick up my kid's birth certifcate for school and unless things have changed a lot it is missing:

Place of Birth - Hospital name, clinic or home address
Witnesses/informer - Person who confirmed the birth
Certifer - Person who was licensed to review and certify the information was correct
Registrar - The person to whom the BC was submitted to and when it was accepted as the birth certificate

All my children's birth certificates have all this same information - if his doesnt' something's up.

141 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:14am

re: #111 MandyManners

I imagine the format changed.

It's not easy to read, but that certificate appears to date from 1964. The format is the same as the one in comment #39.

142 capitalist piglet  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:21am

re: #134 WrathofG-d

Hawaii became a state in the late 1950's didn't it?

In 1959.

143 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:28am

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

144 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:30am

re: #126 Ward Cleaver

Hi sweetie!

So when are you and the BF getting hitched?

STOP. IT. LOL!

145 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:18:49am

re: #143 MandyManners

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

I have westlaw.

146 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:19:27am

re: #19 Ringo the Gringo

Where's the little foot prints?

GMTA

147 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:19:37am

re: #112 Rogue198

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

It's not being a "Truther" to question Markos Moulitsas. The guy would sell his own mother if he could gain something politically.

148 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:19:54am

re: #135 lawhawk

It also appears that Kos got it from the Obama campaign, so that would explain how it came into his hands. Still curious why Obama would go that route.


So it doesn't look like he caved. Again.

149 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:12am

re: #128 Typicalwhitey

*shrugs* No idea...

If it's a fraud, then nail Screw'em to the wall...

I just don't want us to turn into Truthers, seeing fakery and conspiracies everywhere

150 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:19am
151 Dianna  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:20am

If, as Charles says in the update, this is a Certificate of Live Birth, that's a public record and you can look it up.

Question - I hope it's not been answered above - has anyone done the public records search for Obama's mother's passport records? Since she has passed away, I believe those are public records?

152 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:44am

re: #145 loppyd

I have westlaw.

Can you look up H.R.S. 338-13(b), 338-19?

153 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:44am

I have a copy of my birth certificate and it is basically written on a bank note and this is for Washington State. Now California and several other states uses the same type of bank note for the birth certificates. Now the bank note that image supposedly use has some counterfeiting scheme to it but it's extremely poor quality.

By the way, mine's designed by the American Bank Note Company.

154 The Jinxmedic  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:20:49am

A "certificate of live birth" is a government extract of the original birth certificate filed with the state or commonwealth. The certificate shown on Kos' page is what you would get if you applied for a duplicate of an existing birth certificate, in the event that you needed it for employement or identification, or whatever. It is NOT a copy of the original document, simply the extracted information printed onto a proprietary paper at the time of the request. So, yes, a certificate of live birth from 1961 can be authentic, printed via Microsoft Word with a laser printer.

155 rollingdivision  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:02am

Does Hawaii mail birth certificates? If so do they send them flat in a large envelop or folded in a smaller envelop?

156 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:07am

re: #138 rollingdivision

African as a choice of race in 1961? I wonder......

Yeah, is 'African' an official race to be used on a document? Seems to me there are Caucasian africans, as well as africans that are other races as well....

I stick to my original assertion...BS

157 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:20am

re: #128 Typicalwhitey

Why would they release it to KOS?

Are you kidding? He luuuuuuuvs Obama.

158 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:26am

Not to sound twoofy. But I could hop in my car, drive to McArthur Park and be back in 2 1/2 hours with a brand new shiny birth certificate. Don't simply accept them at their word, just cause it looks good.

159 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:37am

re: #148 loppyd

So it doesn't look like he caved. Again.


Boy he sure has some strange supporters!
The co-founder of code pink is a bundler for him!

160 zmdavid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:53am

Why didn't Obama put it on his own website instead of giving it to Kos? Maybe Barack's own web people are too incompetent for him to use.

161 faraway  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:21:58am

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

162 Dianna  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:22:02am

re: #137 Honorary Yooper

Every state does. I have both my birth certificate and a copy of my certificate of live birth; the live birth cert is useful when you don't want to use your actual birth certificate.

163 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:22:21am

The paper appears to be Hammermill Sentry Safety paper, weight about 24#. Normally used for check printing because it has safety features that make it difficult to alter. The crease running through it makes me wonder. I would think that Hawaii would coordinate with the printer and laser supplier to ensure the papers grain direction would be correct.

164 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:22:42am

re: #152 MandyManners

Can you look up H.R.S. 338-13(b), 338-19?

I have to account for why I was on it.....it's not free and it's timed.

Hmmm. I was pulling case law and needed a Hawaii case to cite? LOL

165 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:22:50am

I want to see a throbbing birth certificate.

166 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:23:09am

re: #165 unrealizedviewpoint

I want to see a throbbing birth certificate.

It would be a labor of love...

167 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:23:26am

re: #147 Charles

I agree he's as trustworthy as a jihadist calling for a ceasefire, but let's proceed objectively here. For better or worse, Dems like Obama consider him mainstream.

168 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:04am

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

169 Macker  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:19am

re: #157 Ward Cleaver

Are you kidding? He luuuuuuuvs Obama.

Enough to get an endorsement from Kos. And you all know Kos' record on endorsements.

170 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:26am

re: #147 Charles

I'd also point out that what we are tying to do here is authenticate a document, not disprove a well known reality by the absence of facts, in order to conconct a conspiracy.

171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:29am

re: #143 MandyManners

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?


We have RealWest & Lawhawk - they're just as good, if not better

172 Scarab  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:31am

Where are BO's little foot prints? In the 1960's that was pretty much a requirement on birth ciertificates.

Scarab

173 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:39am

re: #167 Rogue198

I agree he's as trustworthy as a jihadist calling for a ceasefire, but let's proceed objectively here. For better or worse, Dems like Obama consider him mainstream.

I am proceeding objectively.

174 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:40am

re: #161 faraway

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

175 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:41am

I don't think it's a forgery - but at the same time it's obviously not the original. It has modern dates and technology all over it. It's probably a replacement copy Obama or someone on his behalf ordered from Hawaii last year. I've had to do this for my own birth certificate.

That said, there's still the possibility that something interesting got lost in the translation over the years, particularly if categories of information used in the 1960s no longer apply, or new categories were since added. In particular I agree that the use of "African" as a race circa 1961 would be very surprising.

If we're going through this whole exercise, we should at least get the original certificate, Obama. That annoys me more than anything else.

176 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:42am

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

The date stamp is probably on the back, and bled through the paper.

177 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:45am

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

178 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:49am

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

What do you wanta see, the placenta?

179 rollingdivision  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:24:55am

re: #156 Power Armored Lizardoid

Yeah, is 'African' an official race to be used on a document? Seems to me there are Caucasian africans, as well as africans that are other races as well....

I stick to my original assertion...BS

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

180 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:25:05am

re: #164 loppyd

I have to account for why I was on it.....it's not free and it's timed.

Hmmm. I was pulling case law and needed a Hawaii case to cite? LOL

l'll look using the official site.

[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:25:46am

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

Barry, as a lightworker, coalesced fully formed from a rainbow filled with hope, change and happy thoughts.

182 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:25:55am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm looking for a legal search engine that can trace history of a statute.

183 CAD Daddy  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:04am

Where is the part about the angels singing?

184 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:10am

re: #160 zmdavid

Why didn't Obama put it on his own website instead of giving it to Kos? Maybe Barack's own web people are too incompetent for him to use.

I posted this earlier:

re: #53 unrealizedviewpoint

He probably did get it from the campaign. In today's TIME article it says the campaign plans to post a .pdf of Obama's birth certificate on the FightTheSmears site

185 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:21am

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

He sprung, fully formed, from the head of Oprah.

186 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:22am

I'm not buying this as legitimate. There is no official certification, no seal, and no signature. It lists only the barest possible information, and lists his father's ancestry as "African" - specifically not a race.

187 cizi  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:22am

Irrespective of whether this version is authentic or not, might the fact that he is the "second" (i.e. II) or "Junior" be legally relevant in his candidacy?
Has all the paperwork been filled out accurately?

188 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:39am

re: #163 EC Marm

The paper appears to be Hammermill Sentry Safety paper, weight about 24#. Normally used for check printing because it has safety features that make it difficult to alter. The crease running through it makes me wonder. I would think that Hawaii would coordinate with the printer and laser supplier to ensure the papers grain direction would be correct.

How easy would it be to obtain this kind of paper? If it is easy to do, and simply print it up, then anyone could have made it.

IMHO, this isn't up to the standards of Frank Abagnale, Jr.

189 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:45am

re: #135 lawhawk


Still curious why Obama would go that route.


My guess would be that the campaign felt it was beneath them to jistify the demands to release the birth certificate themselves.

190 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:50am

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

You never know what the circumstances are. My dad was born in Georgia, and the records there were destroyed in a flood in about 1940.

191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:26:54am

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.

192 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:02am

Vital Statistics

[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

193 The Jinxmedic  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:20am

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.


Same deal- the replacement certificate requested in 2007, and printed at that time would not say "negro". It's an extract of the original information, and "non-PC" language would be corrected on the replacement. Big deal.

194 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:23am

re: #182 MandyManners

I'm looking for a legal search engine that can trace history of a statute.


This might help you a little. From State of Hawaii web site.

195 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:40am

Here is what I posted on an earlier thread ( and was hammered for it, by the way! My poor wittle sensitive feelings ! )

I am 100000% AGAINST an Obama presidency. But I think the birth issue is a non-starter and he can and will be beaten on issues.

That stated, wouldn't you think that in the long history of this country, with many past and present political parties, that the parties themselves would have a mechanism in place to ensure that their aspiring candidates would meet the constitutional requirements to be President? (and I was hammered for this question also)
(good thing I have thick Lizard Skin !)

196 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:45am

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

Absolutely. And "black" as the more modern term. Defintely NOT "African."

197 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:50am

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

I suspect that he's more of a Lovecraftian phenomena that a Judeo-Christian entity.

198 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:27:55am

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

If he can keep the adversary busy on this crap they aren't finding the real dope.

199 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:06am

re: #173 Charles

I am proceeding objectively.

I wasn't dissing you Charles, I was mainly reacting to the comments of the lizards, people instantly calling fake.

I'm not comfortable with that and said as much.

I'm with you, looks genuine, but as the Gipper said, "Trust but verify."

200 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:12am

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.

Doesn't look debunked to me.

201 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:28am

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

ROFL

Does being linked on Kos give you that not so fresh feeling?

202 MadJadBad  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:35am

What is all the bru-ha about BHO's birth certificate? The rumors about BHO's citizenship sound about as believable as the truthers. Are any of the rumors gaining traction, or was it just a response to all the truther types as DKos?

203 kywrite  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:42am

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Ah, the Pink Monstrosity! My little girl was born there last year but I have not yet ordered an official copy of her b/c. It's time, I guess.

204 holterbarbour  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:50am

Here's the text of HRS 338-13, including paragraph (b) (available [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, &sect17; RL 1955, &sect57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-13; am L 1978, c 49, &sect1]
The text of HRS 338-19:

And HRS 228-19: (Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, &sect23; RL 1955, &sect57-22; am L 1957, c 8, &sect1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-19]

205 irongrampa  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:28:50am

I'll buy that it's a living birth certificate, done in accordance with the revision # shown, my only question is why would it not show all the info present on the original? Not ascribing any hanky-panky, just nosy.

206 Josephine  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:29:17am

re: #29 Golem Akbar

If it's authentic, then that proves Obama could not be the Messiah. You know, no immaculate conception, no messiah.
(oh okay ////)

When I saw the certificate, I thought: So what was he hiding? Then I had the same (sarcastic) thought as you: Ha, proof of non-virgin birth.

Really, though: why was he so slow in releasing it?

My theory as to why he would release it to Kos: because Kos is the anti-LGF. And LGF has been causing some grief to the Obamanation in recent days.

207 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:29:22am

re: #198 unrealizedviewpoint

If he can keep the adversary busy on this crap they aren't finding the real dope.

dope....coke....but no smack, though.

/BARRY O

208 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:29:28am

re: #199 Rogue198

I wasn't dissing you Charles, I was mainly reacting to the comments of the lizards, people instantly calling fake.

I'm not comfortable with that and said as much.

I'm with you, looks genuine, but as the Gipper said, "Trust but verify."

It does not look genuine to me and has not from the get go. But then I've dealt with a lot of birth certificates from lots of places over many years. And a little printing along with lots of graphics.

209 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:29:38am

re: #193 The Jinxmedic

Same deal- the replacement certificate requested in 2007, and printed at that time would not say "negro". It's an extract of the original information, and "non-PC" language would be corrected on the replacement. Big deal.

However, it would either be Barack Obama, Sr.'s nationality (Kenyan) or his race in modern terms. That would be either "African-American" or "Black". Not "African".

I'm still not buying this as real.

210 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:29:49am

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

Kos notes that he trimmed the scan, so that may account for the unevenness.

211 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:01am

re: #195 sattv4u2

The Obamatons don't give a rip about issues, they just want to feel good about electing their Messiah.

212 The Jinxmedic  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:16am

This certificate is not an issue.

213 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:18am

re: #188 Honorary Yooper

How easy would it be to obtain this kind of paper? If it is easy to do, and simply print it up, then anyone could have made it.

IMHO, this isn't up to the standards of Frank Abagnale, Jr.


How easy? Might take a week, at very worst to find it. I used to buy about 100K a year of the stuff in rolls for check printing.

214 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:20am

re: #204 holterbarbour

Thank you. Now I don't have to come up with a lie as to why I was pulling Hawaiian case law. LOL

215 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:23am

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.


Tossed 'em a bone he did.

216 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:24am

re: #194 EC Marm

This might help you a little. From State of Hawaii web site.

Thanks but I found it already.

338-13 deals with certified copies. 338-19 discusses photostatic or typewritten copies of records.

217 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:24am

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

That's a good point, if that is your point.

A Birth Cert from 1961 may say negro on it. if I were Barack I'd get a new one that used the new PC (and correct) terms.

218 kywrite  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:30am

re: #93 goddessoftheclassroom

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

You can name a child anything you want. For purposes of legal support etc, they like to see the father's last name.

219 ElKafir  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:36am

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://img38 0.imageshack.us/content.php?page=done&l=img380 /5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

220 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:48am

re: #201 loppyd

ROFL

Does being linked on Kos give you that not so fresh feeling?

Indeed, but I'm having a chuckle. I'll be taking a swim in a couple of hours, so I'll chsiel the muck off.

221 Richard N  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:30:53am

I have actually recently secure birth certificates for myself (1964), my wife (1962) and my children (1993,1994,1999).

My birth certificate is from the Commonwealth of Virginia and is a photocopy of the form filled out in 1964 and printed on certificate paper that feels like a crisp dollar bill. My wife's is from the State of California and hers is similarly done.

For 2 of my children, we have the "short form" of the full birth certificate which gives basic date like the Obama certificate. It is simply a print out of basic data, no doubt from a database that is compiled by the county records office on the certificate holder. For my last child, we have the "full" version of the birth certificate which, again, has a photocopy of the form filed by the hospital. All three were issued by the state of Texas.

The Obama Certificate is at best the "short" version. And probably easily forged....I wonder if an Obama supporting in the records office in Hawaii was able to "create" this and leaked it to Kos?

222 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:31:00am

re: #211 The Other Les

The Obamatons don't give a rip about issues, they just want to feel good about electing their Messiah.

I'm talking about US, not THEM. They can collectively kiss my "Typically White" ass

223 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:31:04am

re: #208 galloping granny

It does not look genuine to me and has not from the get go. But then I've dealt with a lot of birth certificates from lots of places over many years. And a little printing along with lots of graphics.


You have more experience than I do, I have a reprint of mine from the great state of Missouri.

I'm also taking the word of Jim over at NRO, he's been on the whole Birth Certificate thing since the beginning.

224 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:31:07am

re: #204 holterbarbour

Here's the text of HRS 338-13, including paragraph (b) (available [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, &sect17; RL 1955, &sect57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-13; am L 1978, c 49, &sect1]
The text of HRS 338-19:

And HRS 228-19: (Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, &sect23; RL 1955, &sect57-22; am L 1957, c 8, &sect1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-19]

The certification is not present on this document.

225 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:31:16am

I thought I read where hussein was not his given middle name but that he changed it to hussein.

226 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:31:50am

re: #214 loppyd

Thank you. Now I don't have to come up with a lie as to why I was pulling Hawaiian case law. LOL

Tell them you were looking for the missing mini-sub from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor?

227 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:32:24am

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

If you are Darth Rove, I demand my paycheck.

You've been tardy with your outsourcing referrals. /bwhahaha

228 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:32:36am

What would have been the proper term for his father back then, negro?

My grandfather's race was listed as Irish when he landed here.

229 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:32:44am

What was the reason for blanking out the certificate number?

230 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:32:54am

I'm surprised noone here has photoshopped it yet.

~It'd be so easy!

231 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:13am

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Someone else may already have addressed this, but anyway . . .

The forms w/ the banner are certificates of birth issued long after the birth, presumably on the basis of some other documentation. For instance, the one coquimbojoe links to @39 was issued in 1967 to a woman born in 1909.

232 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:13am

Oh hell, forget all this crap, just get off your butts and vote Republican, and drag your friends and family with you, this idiot can be beat just like hanoi john the traitor was, but you have to spread the word around your neighborhood, be proactive!

233 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:14am

Calling into question the authenticity of this at this point may be a mistake. I am more concerned by the fact that it was potentially leaked to Kos. Speaks volumes for the political slant he has.

Obama's biggest strength has been his ability to malign those against him while dodging their criticism by saying they are unfair. This could all be a setup to hobble the effectiveness of the blogosphere.

234 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:16am

re: #222 sattv4u2

I'm talking about US, not THEM. They can collectively kiss my "Typically White" ass

Okay.

They will of course declare that discussion of the issues is forbidden.

235 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:30am

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

Sorry - that is the upload page, not the image. Try again :)

236 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:56am

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

Uh, I don't see anything.

237 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:33:59am

re: #202 MadJadBad

What is all the bru-ha about BHO's birth certificate? The rumors about BHO's citizenship sound about as believable as the truthers. Are any of the rumors gaining traction, or was it just a response to all the truther types as DKos?

I was never in doubt of his citizenship.

The fact that it is/was totally unprecedented to refuse the release of one's BC as a candidate made it appear as though he was hiding something.

I always thought (and still am not convinced until there has been an authentication of this one) that if he was hiding anything it was either his name really is Barry, that is his parents weren't married when he was born or that his religion was listed as Muslim at birth.

238 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:34:01am

re: #226 Nevergiveup

You had heard that there was recent case law on the issue you are supposed to be looking up that was just handed down in Hawaii, and you wanted to cover al your bases.

239 WriterMom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:34:16am

I think this story has legs.

Hiding his birth certificate is going to be VERY hard, if not impossible to justify.

I like it.

240 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:14am

re: #212 The Jinxmedic

This certificate is not an issue.

I agree. This one is over.

241 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:26am

re: #95 MandyManners

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

Assuming it's a legitimate document, this might be the date it was issued by the state to whomever requested it.

242 holterbarbour  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:31am

re: #224 galloping granny

That appears true, but I don't think it's dispositive:
(Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

[HRS 338-14.3] Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.

(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

(c) Verification may be made in written, electronic, or other form approved by the director of health.

(d) The fee for a verification in lieu of a certified copy shall be one half of the fee established in section 338-14.5 for the first certified copy of a certificate issued.

(e) Fees received for verifications in lieu of certified copies shall be remitted, and one half of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the vital statistics improvement special fund in section 338-14.6 and the remainder of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the state general fund. [L 2001, c 246, &sect1]

243 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:33am

I would think this should be notarized, yes? Where’s the Notary Public’s seal?

244 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:34am

re: #217 unrealizedviewpoint

That's a good point, if that is your point.

A Birth Cert from 1961 may say negro on it. if I were Barack I'd get a new one that used the new PC (and correct) terms.

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

245 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:41am

When you request a new or replacement birth certificate you get the modern version. Since county records have been computerized, the clerk essentially runs a print job from the database to a printer. They don't go the file stacks pull the original and copy it.

I have mine from ID looks very similar.

246 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:42am

Folks, please read what Jinxmedic has posted. There's nothing fake about this. It's the real thing.

247 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:49am

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

But yes, the detail in the way the corners of the printed-on design meet up looks amateurish. That doesn't mean it's fake; it just looks amateurish.

248 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:35:56am

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

Do an interview with one of the Wise Guys who came to Obamessiah's manger.

249 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:36:02am

re: #210 JustMyView

Kos notes that he trimmed the scanm, so that may account for the unevenness.

Fixed it.

How about he rescans at 200dpi or better? Most desktop scanners can do a lot better now.

250 WriterMom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:36:25am

re: #237 loppyd

Yes-lopps...those are the main points a) if he is eligible for the office of President b) what his name was at birth c) if his parents were married d) if his father is who he said he was and e) what religion is listed on the certificate

251 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:36:38am

re: #240 Charles

I agree. This one is over.

Yep!

We've got more than enough issues, continuing on this one is silly and looks worse.

252 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:36:44am

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

253 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:36:50am

re: #233 jayzee

Calling into question the authenticity of this at this point may be a mistake. I am more concerned by the fact that it was potentially leaked to Kos. Speaks volumes for the political slant he has.

Obama's biggest strength has been his ability to malign those against him while dodging their criticism by saying they are unfair. This could all be a setup to hobble the effectiveness of the blogosphere.

Ya know, that's a good point to exploit.
What in the blazing hell is Barack Obama doing releasing the requested copy of his birth certificate to that far left leaning antisemitic website KOS for?

254 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:37:29am

In case it was not posted - this is relevant:

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

Source: [Link: hawaii.gov...]

This is on a Hawaii gov. page. Please note that a Certification of Live Birth is less complete than a Certificate of Live Birth. This is from a site on how to prove you are native Hawaiian.

So something is missing. May not be relevant, but I just wonder why the Obamans are being so retentive.

255 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:37:40am

re: #246 Charles

Couldn't you just freeze comments?

256 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:37:40am

re: #245 jcm

When you request a new or replacement birth certificate you get the modern version. Since county records have been computerized, the clerk essentially runs a print job from the database to a printer. They don't go the file stacks pull the original and copy it.

I have mine from ID looks very similar.

I have a photostate of my original, the copy is at least 40+ years old. I wonder what I'd get if I called for a new one now? Good laugh, probably.

257 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:37:42am

re: #240 Charles

As a learned man (well, we all know Stinky has the real brains in the organization, but I digress) I'll ask you're opinion. Wouldn't you think that in the long history of this country, with many past and present political parties, that the parties themselves would have a mechanism in place to ensure that their aspiring candidates would meet the constitutional requirements to be President?

258 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:37:57am

I still say we might be able to backdoor FOIA it from the State of Illinois, as he would have needed it for public office.

259 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:04am

re: #256 itellu3times

photostat

260 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:09am

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

Little Green Snotballs. Cute.

261 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:09am

If you look carefully you can see that the logo has been disturbed by the paper buckling as it was heated in the laser. In the laser printing process the toner is distributed, then heated to high temperature as it runs under a very hot roller. If the paper buckles because the printer is fighting the grain, the toner will be forced off an area. An area in the logo which should be all black, it is clear to my eyes, the creasing has done just that. This is either a forgery done by someone unaware of paper grain direction, or the state of Hawaii is pretty sloppy.

262 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:14am

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

Which the other side will continue to ignore.

263 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:21am

re: #244 Power Armored Lizardoid

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

Actually, i was thinking just that upon reading. Sometimes I really hurt my back bending over like I do.

264 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:33am

re: #221 Richard N

I have actually recently secure birth certificates for myself (1964), my wife (1962) and my children (1993,1994,1999).

My birth certificate is from the Commonwealth of Virginia and is a photocopy of the form filled out in 1964 and printed on certificate paper that feels like a crisp dollar bill. My wife's is from the State of California and hers is similarly done.

For 2 of my children, we have the "short form" of the full birth certificate which gives basic date like the Obama certificate. It is simply a print out of basic data, no doubt from a database that is compiled by the county records office on the certificate holder. For my last child, we have the "full" version of the birth certificate which, again, has a photocopy of the form filed by the hospital. All three were issued by the state of Texas.

The Obama Certificate is at best the "short" version. And probably easily forged....I wonder if an Obama supporting in the records office in Hawaii was able to "create" this and leaked it to Kos?

Yes, this is very different than any I have seen from anywhere. For starters, I have never seen one printed on check paper. I have also never seen one with a statement about "prima facie" evidence on the bottom. And even the short form copies I've seen from various states have always had an embossed state seal, the date the the copy was issued and the signature of the issuing officer on them.

265 Rogue198  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:41am

re: #240 Charles

I agree. This one is over.

As you state in the openning post Charles, the issue is now the obvious closeness of the Obama campaign and the Koslord himself.

266 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:44am

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

BINGO

267 WriterMom  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:54am

Waaaaa! Over before it started?

I was just starting to have fun!

268 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:38:59am

re: #249 itellu3times

Fixed it.

How about he rescans at 200dpi or better? Most desktop scanners can do a lot better now.

300dpi would be plenty good enough. Just scan the whole thing, including the edges.

269 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:39:21am

re: #212 The Jinxmedic

This certificate is not an issue.

True. His ideas, naivety and associations are reason enough not to vote for him.

270 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:39:39am

re: #253 unrealizedviewpoint,

Could be Barack Hussein Obama likes far-Left leaning anti-Semites. I dunno, I'm jus' sayin'...

271 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:39:59am

re: #257 sattv4u2

You're talking about Chicago Democrats.

They rewrite reality to suit their own needs every day. Why should they care?

272 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:39:59am

re: #161 faraway

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

Hawaii offers a service to get these Certification forms via laser. The upload from a database and laser print it. You can get it via online, and it is faster than the (hard) procedures to get a Certificate. It's explained in detail on their Web site for ordering these items.

273 pat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:40:12am

As I memtioned last night, we will see more Red Herrings from the Obama camp. he will purposely create a controversy then play it out so he can defuse it and blame the GOP. This is a classic example. All he had to do was release this in June of 2007.Instead he played it out for bait.

274 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:40:58am

Anyone here the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?

275 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:40:58am

We just recently got our passports so ordered certified copies of our birth certificates from Illinois and California.

California is not valid unless the seal and the edges of the cert. are raised and engraved. Illinois is not valid without the raised seal.

Both of our certificates are certified, dated and signed by the respective County Clerks (or authorized representative) as true copies. I don't see any such thing on the above.

276 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:02am

re: #244 Power Armored Lizardoid

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

The official term would never be African. "African American" is an acceptable term these days for black american citizens, but Obama's father was not a black American, he was a black African. The official term in most jurisdictions these days is "black."

277 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:09am

re: #256 itellu3times

I have a photostate of my original, the copy is at least 40+ years old. I wonder what I'd get if I called for a new one now? Good laugh, probably.

I thought I lost the original, it was just misplaced. The original is a notarized carbon copy out of a typewriter. The replace I requested looks like the BHO one with the State of ID logos etc.

278 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:14am

re: #267 WriterMom

Waaaaa! Over before it started?

I was just starting to have fun!

I don't think it is over.

279 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:19am

re: #272 Catttt

Hawaii offers a service to get these Certification forms via laser. The upload from a database and laser print it. You can get it via online, and it is faster than the (hard) procedures to get a Certificate. It's explained in detail on their Web site for ordering these items.

Yes but it wasn't from online. The stamp suggests it was mailed through an office.

280 jaunte  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:20am

Markos Moulitsas, Undersecretary of Necessary Leakage

281 crazytraveler  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:24am

The only birth certificate experience I have is with mine, and my reprint from Indiana had neat watermarks printed on heavy paper and had a lot more information about my parents than the one that's from Kos' site. I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I personally don't care - if he's a natural US citizen, then he's qualified (legally) to run.

282 gymnast  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:33am

For what it's worth, in order to obtain a USA passport you must submit a certified copy of your birth certificate.
Question. Has Obama ever held a passport from a country other than the USA?

283 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:38am

re: #274 WrathofG-d PIMF Dag-nab-it

Anyone hear the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" / "Obama will require you to work" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?

284 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:49am

re: #273 pat

As I memtioned last night, we will see more Red Herrings from the Obama camp. he will purposely create a controversy then play it out so he can defuse it and blame the GOP. This is a classic example. All he had to do was release this in June of 2007.Instead he played it out for bait.

I don't know. ?

Why allow all this speculation as to his heritage, place of birth, etc. This can't be good for him.

285 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:50am

Obama's campaign will be doing everything they can do in the near future to prove that right wing blogs are unfairly attacking him and that the American public should discount everything they say. I say this is the start of the start of a huge disinformation campaign being waged for that sole purpose.

That is how Obama plays.

286 ciaospirit  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:58am

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

287 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:41:59am

re: #276 galloping granny

The official term would never be African. "African American" is an acceptable term these days for black american citizens, but Obama's father was not a black American, he was a black African. The official term in most jurisdictions these days is "black."

His father was African so it's correct in the sense as he was never born here in the United States.

288 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:42:01am
289 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:42:32am

re: #285 jayzee

Obama's campaign will be doing everything they can do in the near future to prove that right wing blogs are unfairly attacking him and that the American public should discount everything they say. I say this is the start of the start of a huge disinformation campaign being waged for that sole purpose.

That is how Obama plays.

[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

290 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:42:40am

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Afrikaner?

291 jaunte  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:42:50am

re: #286 ciaospirit

"Africolonian", probably.

292 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:19am

re: #286 ciaospirit

African!

293 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:30am

re: #281 crazytraveler

The only birth certificate experience I have is with mine, and my reprint from Indiana had neat watermarks printed on heavy paper and had a lot more information about my parents than the one that's from Kos' site. I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I personally don't care - if he's a natural US citizen, then he's qualified (legally) to run.

Her name was Stanley because her dad wanted a boy, and was pissed when he didn't get one. So he named her Stanley anyway. No wonder she was so f-ed up. Like a boy named Sue.

294 realwest  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:43am

Well some of us kicked this all over the place on today's dead thread.
I don't understand why, since Hannity first (?) questioned it on Fox TV, since a Kenyan newspaper says he's Kenyan (Obama, not Hannity! See the dt for today) and since it's been the subject of blogsphere rumors and charges, why doesn't Senator Obama just release a copy of his birth certificate, certified by the State of Hawaii as being true and correct?When I had to get a copy of my birth certificate from the State of North Carolina, they simply photocopied the orignial certificate and attached to it as an alonge, a certification by a notary public, under oath and bearing the seal of the State of North Carolina, that the copy was a true, complete and accurate photocopy of the birth certificate on record in XXXXXX county, N.C.

Obviously Hawaii may now make laser copies of old birth certificates or, since this ISN'T a birth certificate, but a “certification of live birth”, perhaps Hawaii does use computers to type that certification of live birth - but where is the actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE? I know of NO State that doesn't state the doctor's name, hospital, father's (sometimes also mothers) occupation and address of the parent (or at least address of the mother).
And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

295 resize  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:44am

So Screw'em obtains O!bamas BC and posts it on his anti-american, anti semitic, Jihadist loving, koo koo moonbat website with the blessings of the O!messiah....You would think that O!deity wanting votes from bitter gun toting, religious, White Americans would go through another outlet...

296 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:47am

re: #274 WrathofG-d

Anyone here the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?



Hehehe!

297 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:53am

re: #278 galloping granny

I don't think it is over.

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

298 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:56am

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Oppressors!

299 jaunte  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:43:57am

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure he's Dependsable in that job.

He has to know he's working for the potential Disassociator-in-Chief.

300 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:44:05am

re: #279 Kaitian868

Yes but it wasn't from online. The stamp suggests it was mailed through an office.

You misunderstood - sorry if I wasn't clear. You can ORDER them online.

Obviously, you don't get them via e-mail or something. They're printed on safety paper.

Getting a certificate is not as easy as that and has more info on it.

301 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:44:18am

I'm just proud to be a member of the ultimate 'race'...UnitedStatesian!

302 Thanos  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:44:22am

Ok, there's one more thing left here. Why release today, what is this a distraction from?

303 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:44:26am

One thing I'm sure of: this birth certificate is a valid proof of residence for Chicago's Democratic Registrar of Voters.

304 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:44:29am

re: #289 unrealizedviewpoint
Rush already demolished that. The first item they cite as a "smear" is bogus.

How weak.

305 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:14am

re: #303 Who Watches the Watchmen?

One thing I'm sure of: this birth certificate is a valid proof of residence for Chicago's Democratic Registrar of Voters.

So is a grave stone.

306 zmdavid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:21am

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Ask Teresa Heinz Kerry.

307 bosforus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:21am

Here's a link that I believe explains the difference.
[Link: www.scribd.com...]

308 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:32am

re: #106 coquimbojoe

Did you grow up on the penninsula? I grew up in Portola Valley and Palo Alto.... You still around there?

Grew up in San Mateo - went to Aragon High School.

Now live in San Diego area. Parents retired to Capitola. I have 4 sisters living in the Bay Area.

Where did you go to High School?

309 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:48am

I haven't the faintest clue how any of it works, but wouldn't Obama have to prove his eligibility for the Presidency before he even started his campaign?

310 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:45:49am

re: #302 Thanos

Ok, there's one more thing left here. Why release today, what is this a distraction from?

to quell the furor over the one person from the VP vetting team he had to let go, and from the one he'll (most likely( have to let go soon!

311 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:00am

re: #296 jcm

Pretty funny (except that people are buying it) but did you hear the show and speech? They really are selling this "lightworker" as the coming Moshiach.....very frightening. (I won't get into the Anti-Jesus stuff either)

312 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:08am

re: #261 EC Marm

If you look carefully you can see that the logo has been disturbed by the paper buckling as it was heated in the laser. In the laser printing process the toner is distributed, then heated to high temperature as it runs under a very hot roller. If the paper buckles because the printer is fighting the grain, the toner will be forced off an area. An area in the logo which should be all black, it is clear to my eyes, the creasing has done just that. This is either a forgery done by someone unaware of paper grain direction, or the state of Hawaii is pretty sloppy.

I think I agree with you. That crease is very evident in the scan, and if there were an embossed seal, it should show up likewise in the scan.

I too am bothered by the fact that this is on check paper, not any other type of paper I have seen for official documents. I've never seen check paper used for any official state documents beyond, well, checks.

And, furthermore, why was it released directly to Markos Moulitsas, and not CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, et.al., in a press release? The Daily Kos is not a primary news outlet in the way the others are.

Those are some issues I have with it.

313 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:18am

This document is meaningless and a diversion from the real issues. The fact is Barack is born and he's their candidate. There are bigger fish to fry.

314 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:19am

re: #294 realwest

Well some of us kicked this all over the place on today's dead thread.
I don't understand why, since Hannity first (?) questioned it on Fox TV, since a Kenyan newspaper says he's Kenyan (Obama, not Hannity! See the dt for today) and since it's been the subject of blogsphere rumors and charges, why doesn't Senator Obama just release a copy of his birth certificate, certified by the State of Hawaii as being true and correct?When I had to get a copy of my birth certificate from the State of North Carolina, they simply photocopied the orignial certificate and attached to it as an alonge, a certification by a notary public, under oath and bearing the seal of the State of North Carolina, that the copy was a true, complete and accurate photocopy of the birth certificate on record in XXXXXX county, N.C.

Obviously Hawaii may now make laser copies of old birth certificates or, since this ISN'T a birth certificate, but a “certification of live birth”, perhaps Hawaii does use computers to type that certification of live birth - but where is the actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE? I know of NO State that doesn't state the doctor's name, hospital, father's (sometimes also mothers) occupation and address of the parent (or at least address of the mother).
And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

Reasonable questions. All of them. Don't let up on this! I want to see the original that notes all the particulars Realwest mentions

315 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:21am

re: #286 ciaospirit,

The Enemy race. Just ask Robert Mugabe.

316 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:40am

re: #294 realwest


And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

Maybe he's planning to throw Markos under the bus. /

317 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:41am

re: #309 Fat Jolly Penguin

see my #257

318 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:46:57am

re: #300 Catttt

You misunderstood - sorry if I wasn't clear. You can ORDER them online.

Obviously, you don't get them via e-mail or something. They're printed on safety paper.

Getting a certificate is not as easy as that and has more info on it.

Ah yes you're correct. I don't understand why June 6th, 2007 became such a good idea to requisition a birth certificate.

319 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:47:16am

re: #313 Kreuzueber Halbmond

This document is meaningless and a diversion from the real issues. The fact is Barack is born and he's their candidate. There are bigger fish to fry.

You go eat the fish. I want to finish this meal.

320 snowcrash  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:47:22am

I think it was released it to the DailyKos because Obamas people identified the sources of questions of his birth to be originating from the right wing blogs. Kos was his vehicle for getting it out into the blogosphere.

321 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:47:39am

re: #287 Kaitian868

His father was African so it's correct in the sense as he was never born here in the United States.

But it is NOT a race. A nationality, yes. However, even today your children will be identified by a "race" tag on their birth certificates - used for identification purposes in case of similar names.

322 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:47:46am

re: #308 karmic_inquisitor

Grew up in San Mateo - went to Aragon High School.

Now live in San Diego area. Parents retired to Capitola. I have 4 sisters living in the Bay Area.

Where did you go to High School?

Palo Alto High, moved from PV to PA after 8th grade.... Knew people at Aragon, but after 25 years (almost to the day) I can't remember any...

323 ElKafir  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:47:54am

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/scraac180b t3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

324 crash72  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:48:00am

He did this with his medical records too. He distilled originals down to a sanitized form letter and released it.

325 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:48:25am

re: #161 faraway

Yes, that is certainly the best case. I am still concerned a bit about the selective compression defects. I am actually less concerned with the fact that it says it was done in Photoshop than you might think. Photoshop will let you acquire an image from a scanner. If there had been a paper copy and if somebody had just done that to get the scan, it would have come out with those properties. The lack of the raised seal and the means of release still concern me.

326 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:48:26am

re: #321 galloping granny

But it is NOT a race. A nationality, yes. However, even today your children will be identified by a "race" tag on their birth certificates - used for identification purposes in case of similar names.

Maybe his mother was *cough* stupid and said he was "African" rather than "Kenyan"?

327 fish-man  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:48:45am

Well, I was inclined to believe the document - figured it was a certificate of live birth that he had done recently for his filing for the senate or something. But then, I pulled a certificate of live birth from another state that was done recently for someone in my family. Now different states can be real different, but they probably do similar things - and Obama's has almost no information. The one in my hands is a photocopy of the original, showing a signature of who registered the birth, who certified it, when it was recieved, and even birth information on the parents. It also has an issue date showing when it was re-issued and information indicating by whom. Finally, the patterns around the edges are much more complex, like what you see printed on money, and there is a visible serial number in a different color (Blacked out by Kos?). Kos says he truncated the form, but I don't see where the truncation happened, instead I see odd junctures at each corner. And what is with the corruption of the color image of the background around some words like 'Mothers Maiden Name' ? That happens to images I am workin on when I type in text using lo-tech tools - I don't think a good scanned image would be like that. Tho I suppose that could have happened when Kos truncated it... ...wherever that mysterious truncation is.

Oh, and I see evidence of a something like a 'raised seal' just above the reversed date. There is another side to the original document (or whatever provided the background for photoshopping) that might be interesting to see.

I have probably spent too much time looking at this already. If it was an official document, it would be certified by someone who could attest to it's officiality who is actually in the business of certifying or producing birth certificates, and we would know how Kos got it. Instead we are gazing at something that appeared out of the blue to 'answer' questions. And meanwhile the Kos-crowd is laughing because they think it is funny that ANYONE might review a document like this, and still on the McCain/Canal Zone thing. Heaven forbid we should look twice at any document.

328 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:48:56am

re: #220 JammieWearingFool

Indeed, but I'm having a chuckle. I'll be taking a swim in a couple of hours, so I'll chsiel the muck off.

It's good stuff, that's for sure...

A few coldies will help too. :D

329 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:49:05am

re: #311 WrathofG-d

Pretty funny (except that people are buying it) but did you hear the show and speech? They really are selling this "lightworker" as the coming Moshiach.....very frightening. (I won't get into the Anti-Jesus stuff either)

Demonstrates the spiritual vacuum most people have.

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He also has planted eternity in men's hearts and minds [a divinely implanted sense of a purpose working through the ages which nothing under the sun but God alone can satisfy], yet so that men cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.
Ecclesiastes 3:11

330 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:49:17am

re: #323 ElKafir

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/ scraac180bt3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

That's because this is a certification of live birth by the State of Hawaii, not the actual birth certificate issued in 1961.

331 realwest  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:49:26am

re: #297 Cognito
Cog, the question isn't whether or not he's a citizen,
but whether or not he's a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
This certification of live birth would seem to say yes he is.
I'd still like to see the orignial Birth Certificate though, or at least a copy of it CERTIFIED by the State of Hawaii as being true, complete and correct.
I honestly don't see why that's such a difficult thing for Senator Obama to produce.

332 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:49:39am

re: #319 unrealizedviewpoint

You go eat the fish. I want to finish this meal.

Call me when the main course arrives.

333 holterbarbour  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:50:16am

If there's any law disqualifying Obama from the presidency, perhaps his associations with dubious characters may implicate Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the U.S Constitution:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

334 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:50:24am

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

That's not the issue. There are two separate issues on hand here.

1. Is this a legitimate birth certificate?
2. Is Barack Hussein Obama a natural-born citizen of these United States?

We know he is a citizen, Cog, just not which kind (natural-born or naturalized).

335 SummerSong  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:50:29am

re: #158 unrealizedviewpoint


Nah, more likely, you'd be in line for 2 1/2 hours and then they would inform you that it will take a week and that they will mail it to you. Been there, done that.

336 ElKafir  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:50:55am

re: #330 Kaitian868

That's because this is a certification of live birth by the State of Hawaii, not the actual birth certificate issued in 1961.

Let's see the original then.

337 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:50:57am

I accept this as a State issued document.

My only question.

Why not just release the original and make it a non-issue?

338 Vergeltung  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:03am

re: #332 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Call me when the main course arrives.

I know, right? talk about much ado about nothing....

339 Dawnfire82  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:19am

Of course, if Certificates of Live Birth are actually laser printed up in Word these days, that means that alterations could easily be entered and be virtually undetectable, right?

They should have simply released the original Birth Certificate.

340 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:36am

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

341 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:49am

re: #329 jcm

Interesting if you look at what the Dem party has done over the years. First they remove G-d from the society. Then they replace G-d with Government. Then they try to sell you that god's Moshiach! (Obama).

It is exactly what Socialism did. Replaced G-d with Government.

Or in short: It is Idol Worship.

342 mixa  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:50am

re: #309 Fat Jolly Penguin

I haven't the faintest clue how any of it works, but wouldn't Obama have to prove his eligibility for the Presidency before he even started his campaign?

To whom?

343 Power Armored Lizardoid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:55am

re: #332 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Call me when the main course arrives.

I'm hoping the main course will be McCain having Barry's liver in the debates with some fava beans and a nice chianti...

Heh.

344 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:51:59am

Obama is a commie, his mother and father were commies, and his friends are commies. That's all you need to know about him.

345 jaunte  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:04am

It would be funny, as an emailer to the corner suggested, if the hesitancy over releasing the actual certificate was about Obama being named Barry Dunham at birth. Meanwhile, on to the real problems with his candidacy.

346 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:04am

Call me crazy, but I'll bet the original cert. doesn't classify Mr. Obama, Sr. as of the African race.

I have relatives who were born in Africa (I have a cousin who was a missionary there, with her husband, for years, and they had a bunch of kids while there).

Are they of the African race?

347 BigJohn  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:10am

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

348 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:15am

re: #324 crash72

He did this with his medical records too. He distilled originals down to a sanitized form letter and released it.

We don't want no distilled sanitized answers Barack Obama. We want a full disclosure. Every body chant together now.
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!

349 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:19am

re: #321 galloping granny

1997 OMB Race classifications that would have applied to his father are "Black" or "African American" per the OMB citation I posted earlier.

350 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:52:23am

re: #339 Dawnfire82

Indeed.

Why even go through the trouble?

If this is on the original, for your own sake, put the original out there.

351 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:53:17am

re: #342 mixa

To whom?

I don't know; that's why I asked... The FEC? The Democrat Party?

352 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:53:23am

re: #346 Catttt

Call me crazy, but I'll bet the original cert. doesn't classify Mr. Obama, Sr. as of the African race.

I have relatives who were born in Africa (I have a cousin who was a missionary there, with her husband, for years, and they had a bunch of kids while there).

Are they of the African race?

Well now. What could it possibly say?

353 offendi  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:53:26am

Well at least it proves it wasn't immaculate conception, like some of his supporters seem to believe.

354 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:53:57am

re: #347 BigJohn

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

By the American Bank Note Company? I would have to say that most if not all companies uses this type of note.

[Link: www.abncompany.com...]

355 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:54:00am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

right ,,,,, again ,, see my 257!

356 Big Steve  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:54:13am

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

Advertising
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Read more...

357 JohnnyReb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:54:26am

It is possible that his family lost his original birth certificate. Given how they moved him around all the time, it is certainly possible. And he asked for a brith certificate from Hawaii and this is what he got.

358 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:54:33am

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

I don't think people are questioning his citizenship. But if we're going to be technical, being a citizen is not enough. David Ortiz became a US citizen yesterday, but he cannot be president.

The fact that he resisted gives an impression of hiding something. It's a perception issue.

359 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:54:47am

re: #341 WrathofG-d

Interesting if you look at what the Dem party has done over the years. First they remove G-d from the society. Then they replace G-d with Government. Then they try to sell you that god's Moshiach! (Obama).

It is exactly what Socialism did. Replaced G-d with Government.

Or in short: It is Idol Worship.

Yep....

360 bosforus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:04am

Kos, how hard was it to get this? (8+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
RN in NYC, Spathiphyllum, pgm 01, crodri, flumptytail, maizenblue, Cassandra Waites, mamamarti

Just wondering...

Lisa :)

"No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

by Boston to Salem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:14:39 AM PDT

[ Reply to This |Recommend ]
Kos, how hard was it to get this? by Boston to Salem, Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:14:39 AM PDT (8+ / 0-)

*
* [new] I bet he googled it by gaspare, Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:22:32 AM PDT (3+ / 0-)
*
I asked the campaign (45+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
aisling, Steven R, latts, Lipstick Liberal, Plutonium Page, Joe B, sprhoto, indybend, mentaldebris, brown girl in the ring, wanderindiana, Boston to Salem, ttujoe, bwren, leevank, GN1927, mcfly, Catte Nappe, Tillie630, Spathiphyllum, Dauphin, nowheredesign, mariachi mama, pgm 01, Dartagnan, slb36cornell, crodri, flumptytail, TexasLiz, Cassandra Waites, etoipi, Dewey Kneadleeders, jay w, mamamarti, OHeyeO, clambake, Michael James, Rorgg, paintitblue, mahakali overdrive, math4barack, Qtrubb Bull, jem286, Alohilani, fleisch

This "journamalism" thing actually works sometimes.

by kos on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:46:03 AM PDT

[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend ]

361 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:05am

re: #331 realwest

Cog, the question isn't whether or not he's a citizen,
but whether or not he's a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
This certification of live birth would seem to say yes he is.
I'd still like to see the orignial Birth Certificate though, or at least a copy of it CERTIFIED by the State of Hawaii as being true, complete and correct.
I honestly don't see why that's such a difficult thing for Senator Obama to produce.

Why should he?

I've said all along that Obama does owe proof of natural-born citizenship (whatever that means -- it's still somewhat undefined) to some clerk somewhere, to pass the Constitutional requirements for Presidency. If you think the United States of America is so inept that it might forget to follow the Constitution, then the problem is much larger than Obama's paperwork.

What he doesn't owe is a public parade of his birth certificate.

The question arises, then: "Well, he must be hiding something." That's a dangerous mentality: If you won't do XYZ, you must have something to hide.

This is a red herring that will, I expect, only lead to embarrassment and the marginalization of more legitimate criticisms that may come later.

362 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:20am

re: #323 ElKafir

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/ scraac180bt3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

Oh, I see what you are saying. That line is a standard line you see on government documents. The OHSM is the abbreviation for the particular division of the Hawai'ian state government, 1.1 is the form number and the REV is the date it was last revised. The 1.1 seems more software-ish to me than government documents, as those usually have numbers like DD Form 214 or IRS 1040A. I don't think the laser is necessarily the issue.

363 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:20am

re: #356 Big Steve

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

Advertising
Classifieds
Executive Male EscortsTraveling? Or just horny for a hot guy? Nominated "Best Escort Site 2003-2007" by CyberSocket Magazine! Your pleasure is most important for ALL these polished & professional male escorts worldwide! Each ad has photos, bio, stats, reviews & contact info. Listings are FREE!
Read more...

Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

364 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:26am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

Oh maybe not. Hillary ran an absolutely horrible campaign against this man. She always attacked too late and to short.

365 Kaitian868  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:55:30am

re: #356 Big Steve

Wow I noticed that now that you pointed it out.

366 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:19am

re: #348 unrealizedviewpoint

We don't want no distilled sanitized answers Barack Obama. We want a full disclosure. Every body chant together now.
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!

I don't think there is anything on the original certificate that would be news.

I personally think this is all about the Obamans being anal retentive.

ANAL RETENTIVE 08! /

367 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:20am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

The thought probably never occurred to them. They just assumed (a relative of Know it all) that he was legit.

368 JammieWearingFool  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:31am
UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: Daily Kos: Eulogy before the Inevitability of Self-Destruction: The Decline and Death of Israel.

You're smearing them!

/

369 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:35am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

To whom would he have produced it, since he refused to provide it to the media? And would those be the same folks to whom John Carry produced his military records?

370 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:46am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

Perhaps.

I still think she publicly play nice and say all the right things, but will have her henchmen in the shadows helping to ensure an Obama loss.

Then she can run in 2012 on the "I told you so" platform.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA

371 Son Of The Godfather  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:46am

Faxed from a Kinko's by an unimpeacheable source...

372 faraway  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:48am

If this document is real, then these facts are known:
1. Barry was born in the USA and is a citizen.
2. Barry's mother says the father is Barack, Sr.

The "African" part makes perfect sense to me.

Since we are prevented from seeing the original birth certificate, these facts are not known:
1. Usually the birth certificate lists the religion of the parents (as declared by the mother)

Further, we have no way of knowing from a birth certificate whether the parents are actually married or not at the time of birth.

373 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:49am

re: #347 BigJohn

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

I've got one of those little hospital birth certificates from here in Dallas. Definitely not official enough.

374 Dave_Da_Kid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:56:52am

I recently had to get a copy of my Birth Certificate for a job. When I photocopied the "Official copy" it showed up watermarks that allowed the person getting the copy I made that it was just that.... A copy. So, where am I going with this? How was this document prepared for web publication? Was is scanned? If so should it show a watermark to indicate that it has been photo copied (scanned)? I don't know but I wonder.........

375 BigJohn  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:57:14am

re: #354 Kaitian868

By the American Bank Note Company? I would have to say that most if not all companies uses this type of note.

[Link: www.abncompany.com...]

Yep, very similar to those.

376 Big Steve  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:57:21am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

Maybe from under Obama's bus....there is a lot guys looking for work from there

377 MadJadBad  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:57:57am

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

A certificate of birth is probably a medical document while a birth certificate is probably a legal document.
Back in the 60's, a birth certificate was probably just a copy of the hospital's certificate of live birth with a state seal embossed on it. (It was in my case).
The posted image was probably a new copy issued in 1997, explaining the date at the bottom.
Due to changes in technology, you would not expect a new copy to look anything like the original. Before computers, the certificates had to be physically filed somewhere, now the information is stored in databases, which could be printed out in whatever format the dept. of health deems appropriate. I would expect it to be printed on tamper resistant paper with an embossed seal.

378 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:58:06am

re: #364 unrealizedviewpoint

Agree, but don't you think if she had proof of false citizenship she would have bought billboards in every city in the USA! He's for real and he's in our faces, the only way to send him to the woodpile is to vote against the POS communist!

379 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:58:10am

I would have felt more comfortable with BO releasing this through his office than via the means that it has come out. Even if this is real, and it may be or may not be I am now agnostic on it, this was a bad judgment on his part to release it in this manner. But then again whenever was BO known for his good judgment?

380 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:58:28am

re: #356 Big Steve

CyberSocket Magazine? ? ? Good golly Miss Molly!

381 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:58:48am

re: #356 Big Steve

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

Advertising
Classifieds
Executive Male EscortsTraveling? Or just horny for a hot guy? Nominated "Best Escort Site 2003-2007" by CyberSocket Magazine! Your pleasure is most important for ALL these polished & professional male escorts worldwide! Each ad has photos, bio, stats, reviews & contact info. Listings are FREE!
Read more...

Markos is a Pimp, who would have guessed.

I bet he looks cute in purple...lol

382 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:58:54am

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

383 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:59:26am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

What do you mean by "operate"?

/i don't wanna know

384 lightspeed  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:59:28am

Shouldn't Dick Cheney be able to get a copy of his birth certificate? After all, they are distant cousins and he meets the Hawaii requirement of "a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin)."

385 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:59:46am

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

Cognito I am surprised at you. I thought you were a smart reporter type dude. Have you forgotten all of the 12 million plus illegal aliens in this country who work somewhere and have "proved" their right to do so with falsified documentation?

And the question is not whether he is a citizen. Arnold Schwarzenneger is a citizen long since, but he can never be POTUS.

386 syndicate  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 10:59:48am

"That's not the birth certificate I knew..."

Seriously though, here's what I know.

The form text is not justified as it should be if this were an authentic form. By form text I mean existing text such as "Date of Birth" that would exist on the form stock.

The information text such as Baracks name, Honolulu, Stanley, Caucasian etc is not justified left as it would be if authentic. All of the words are places in slightly different alignment.

The font of the form and the font used for the entries of Baracks information appear to be the same.

There is no raised stamped seal.

The date of June 6, 2007 bleeding through means nothing. You can buy one of these stamps in any stationary store and set the date to anything you want.

Looks like more pathetic bull from Kos and his band of liars.

387 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:00:06am

re: #366 Catttt

I don't think there is anything on the original certificate that would be news.

I personally think this is all about the Obamans being anal retentive.

ANAL RETENTIVE 08! /

Campaign slogan for Anal Retentive 08: We Won't Give You Any S**t!

388 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:00:25am
The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this:

This is the angle folks.
Will KOS go under the bus where it belongs.

389 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:00:43am
390 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:01:06am

re: #382 Charles

You predicted it yesterday.

391 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:01:47am

From the newly posted update:

militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect

Does anyone know what the membership dues are? I think they went up from last year...

392 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:00am
393 Dianna  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:21am

re: #353 offendi

The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate Conception. It doesn't refer to Jesus.

394 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:25am

re: #385 galloping granny

Cognito I am surprised at you. I thought you were a smart reporter type dude. Have you forgotten all of the 12 million plus illegal aliens in this country who work somewhere and have "proved" their right to do so with falsified documentation?

And the question is not whether he is a citizen. Arnold Schwarzenneger is a citizen long since, but he can never be POTUS.

So you think Obama might be an illegal immigrant who has fooled all levels of the American government, up to the Presidency?

Really?

395 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:38am
396 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:48am

re: #374 Dave_Da_Kid

If so should it show a watermark to indicate that it has been photo copied (scanned)? I don't know but I wonder.........


Since this type of paper is traditionally used for check printing it shows erasers very quickly, and any use of a chemical to erase ink changes the color of the paper instantly. Some manufacturers (not all) build in a watermark.

397 johnm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:52am

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

398 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:15am

This association should paint the picture quite well allowing the folks to understand. KOS has been receiving the deserved exposure for quite some time. Maybe now, this election season, they'll get their due?

399 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:20am

re: #361 Cognito

Why should he?

I've said all along that Obama does owe proof of natural-born citizenship (whatever that means -- it's still somewhat undefined) to some clerk somewhere, to pass the Constitutional requirements for Presidency. If you think the United States of America is so inept that it might forget to follow the Constitution, then the problem is much larger than Obama's paperwork.

What he doesn't owe is a public parade of his birth certificate.

The question arises, then: "Well, he must be hiding something." That's a dangerous mentality: If you won't do XYZ, you must have something to hide.

This is a red herring that will, I expect, only lead to embarrassment and the marginalization of more legitimate criticisms that may come later.

The problem, Cog, is that as we have never before had a candidate for POTUS whose father was not a US citizen, we have never had any assigned clerk or department anywhere to collect and certify the information on behalf of the American voting public. And since he is interviewing for the job with ALL of us, then ALL of us are entitled to assure ourselves that he meets the qualifications set forth in the Constitution.

400 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:35am

re: #382 Charles

Leftists....consitantly surrounded by racists, Anti-Semites and extremists....when asked can only find them in the Republican party.

401 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:42am

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

I've got one of those little hospital birth certificates from here in Dallas. Definitely not official enough.

Interesting. When you have the form filled out in Michigan, it is sent to the city/village/township for filing and is stamped with the seal, thus making it official.

What kind of little form is this, out of curiosity?

402 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:42am

re: #392 Catttt

New Obama poster

Spot on, Catttt

403 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:03:59am

re: #281 crazytraveler

I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I read an article about her that said that she was weirded out about it too! I think she went by her middle name, Anne.

404 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:04:00am
UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this...

Not sure I follow the logic of the ties, here, Charles. I don't like Kos, but he asked for the document. Did the Obama campaign refuse to hand over the same document to you?

405 hippieforlife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:04:31am

re: #52 MandyManners

That Fight the Smears web site is so funny! Obama's quote that "we are all Americans" really rings hollow, just like the man himself.

406 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:04:37am

re: #358 loppyd

"The fact that he resisted gives an impression of hiding something. It's a perception issue." - This is often a fault with lawyers. Their first reaction is to not release something. Please remember that Nixon was not given the heave ho because he authorized the break in, it was because he decided to hide it and cover it up. If he had come out and simply said that "It has come to my attention that some members of the campaign staff have performed illegal acts which I did not authorize and which I now condemn" he would have finished out his term. But that was not in Nixon's character.

I think BO's "lawyer reflex" will continue to get him into credibility problems for the rest of the campaign.

BO would be well advised to follow Harry Truman's wisdom of: "Always tell the truth, that way you do not have to remember what you said."

407 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:04:57am
408 realwest  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:05:03am

re: #361 Cognito
"Why should he?"
Well, let's see: he's running for President of the United States, has never been in the miliary, hasn't released his full medical records (which do have at least a photocopy of the BIRTH CERTIFICATE in them - it's true, just check with your own doc to find out!) and he has been questioned as to whether or not he meets the qualifications of being President of the United States.
I think the better question is: Why shouldn't he release a copy of his actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE and stop all the "smear" campaigns and "lies" told about him right now?I mean, why release tax returns? Why release medical records (which he hasn't done, of course)? Why any number of things, other than the BIRTH CERTIFICATE will verify his qualification for the Presidency?

409 CoCo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:05:48am

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

Agreed...the real story here should be the venue in which the certificate was delivered. That association sickens me.

410 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:05:54am
411 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:06:19am

re: #391 coquimbojoe

From the newly posted update:

militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect

Does anyone know what the membership dues are? I think they went up from last year...

Aren't they the people who issue Zionist paychecks?

412 seekeroftruth  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:06:23am

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

So Obama is openly associating himself with anti-semitic bloggers. Interesting.

413 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:06:48am

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

Looks like someone failed Composition 101.

414 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:02am

Trivia question: Is Obama's mama
Stanley Ann Durham
or
Stanley Ann Dunham

415 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:09am

Obama has it so easy!
by kos

Cole also points out that the inevitable right-wing efforts to "debunk" the birth certification that I published this morning (and given to me by the Obama campaign after I asked them for it).

Well, that settles that.

416 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:16am

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

I guess that settles it.

BBL.

again.

417 zmdavid  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:24am

re: #407 buzzsawmonkey

Homer Simpson works for the State of Hawaii?

I always think of Homer when I see a Democrat from Ohio in print.
Eg: Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

418 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:29am

re: #413 MandyManners

Looks like someone failed Composition 101.

Charles, that is an outrage up with which I would not put. /

419 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:34am

re: #395 buzzsawmonkey

That Khazar-and-blood-libel Kos diary is something one would expect to find at Stormfront.

It is utterly vile--as well as seriously factually challenged.

Remember the one the other day in which the Jews were to blame for McKinnley's assasination?

420 Dianna  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:35am

re: #394 Cognito

Ahem - the question isn't "is he a citizen." It is, "was he born in the United States?"

Got it?

421 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:37am

re: #404 Cognito

Not sure I follow the logic of the ties, here, Charles. I don't like Kos, but he asked for the document. Did the Obama campaign refuse to hand over the same document to you?

You are amazing. He could have posted it to his own site yet he gives it to his KOS.

422 hippieforlife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:41am

re: #265 Rogue198

Don't forget how supportive of Hillary that Kos was. Why she even spoke at his convention! It's only mid-June and look how many people he has had to throw under the bus!

Maybe he should be charged with "war crimes" for the most staffers thrown under a bus during his campaign. LOL!

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:07:43am

Didn't read all of the comments. But now we have proof. Obama is a Human Being.

424 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:08:00am
425 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:08:11am

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

I don't question the authenticity. I accept it. But why not just release a copy of the original?

Serioulsy?

I think if you are the democrat candidate, and trying to eliminate rumors, why not just kill it if you have the ability?

426 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:08:39am

(AP-not) April 1, 2009
President Barack Obama today released details of his economic proposals. Congressmen are invited to review the full details at DailyKos.com

427 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:08:49am

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

How long before Kos has an imprint from one of these across his face?

428 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:09:06am

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

Fair enough, but why release it to Markos Moulitsas, and not a reputable news outlet?

429 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:09:21am

re: #394 Cognito

So you think Obama might be an illegal immigrant who has fooled all levels of the American government, up to the Presidency?

Really?

You can be admitted to the state bar if you were born in another country and became a US citizen. Same goes for Congress. I believe you have to be a citizen for seven years in order to serve.

I don't think anybody is saying he's illegal.

People are pointing out that you must be born in the US to be president. There is a difference which you seem to be ignoring.

FWIW I never thought that was the reason behind Obama's stonewalling.

430 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:09:32am

Well as long as BHO wasn't born on this island.

[Link: www.macguff.fr...]

431 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:09:36am

re: #423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't read all of the comments. But now we have proof. Obama is a Human Being.

It's not proof until verification.

432 realwest  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:05am

Well y'all it's been grand as usual, but I gotta go eat some lunch now.

AND, no matter what anyone says, infers or implies, the reality is that if Obama released a certified copy of his Birth Certificate, the entire issue would be cleared up once and for all.
For those who question why he should release it, I've already answered that.
Hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

433 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:18am

re: #401 Honorary Yooper

Interesting. When you have the form filled out in Michigan, it is sent to the city/village/township for filing and is stamped with the seal, thus making it official.

What kind of little form is this, out of curiosity?

I think it's just one given out by the hospital. It's got my footprints on it.

434 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:23am

re: #416 Ben Hur

I guess that settles it.


Sure does. Impeccable credentials, five posts here, why should we doubt a word?

435 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:36am

re: #424 taxfreekiller

troll

where?

436 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:47am

re: #377 MadJadBad

A certificate of birth is probably a medical document while a birth certificate is probably a legal document.
Back in the 60's, a birth certificate was probably just a copy of the hospital's certificate of live birth with a state seal embossed on it. (It was in my case).
The posted image was probably a new copy issued in 1997, explaining the date at the bottom.

Due to changes in technology, you would not expect a new copy to look anything like the original. Before computers, the certificates had to be physically filed somewhere, now the information is stored in databases, which could be printed out in whatever format the dept. of health deems appropriate. I would expect it to be printed on tamper resistant paper with an embossed seal.

Both are legal documents, they simply bear different information. A certificate of live birth authenticates your birthday (assuming it has been certified.) Some jurisdictions call these "short form" birth certificates. They are good for school registration and that is about it.

The Long Form BC has lots of other information - where you were born, the hospital, the doctor, parents marital status,names, addresses, occupations, sometimes grandparents and so on. In some places in the 60s this might have been a copy of the hospital document, but in general it is a certificate issued by the town or state certifying the information that was submitted to them by the hospital and parents.

Note that the date at the bottom is (Rev. 11/10) or "revised, November 2001" The posted image cannot have been printed in 1997 on a form that was not printed until after a revision had been made to the from in 2001.

437 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:10:59am

re: #421 unrealizedviewpoint

You are amazing. He could have posted it to his own site yet he gives it to his KOS.

plausible deniability

438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:19am

re: #432 realwest

Hey! Come again when you can't stay as long!

(That is a nice thing isn't it. My parents say it to me each time I leave their house.)

439 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:25am

re: #418 Catttt

Charles, that is an outrage up with which I would not put. /

I have this image of spittle forming at the corners of the diarist's lips.

440 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:43am

There is too much real crap that we can nail this asshole on, let's not act like moonbats!

441 Nemo  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:46am

The Obama campaign's choice of attaching itself to Mentos boy is a bad move; I wonder if anyone high up knows it? Next thing you know, someone will be deciding they roll out Michael Moore for additional sex appeal.

442 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:49am

re: #394 Cognito

The devil is in the details. Given that when he went to school, he was listed as an Indonesian citizen does this imply a renouncement of his US Citizenship? If so he can probably be "naturalized" at the request of his mother (I do not know), but this would prevent him from being POTUS. It would not prevent him from being a Senator, Governor, etc. There are too many mis-truths, half-truths, and so on for me to feel comfortable here. Also while I am reasonably well read in certain areas of the law, this is not one of them and I am not a lawyer.

443 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:50am

re: #392 Catttt,

Is that to go along with the Male Prostitute ad on Kos' site? Eeeeeewwwwwww!

444 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:58am

Interesting thing about that "screw them" remark -- Kos has apparently removed the redirect that he had in place for years, to hide what he said from outside links.

You can now link directly to his vile comment.

445 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:11:59am

re: #414 abolitionist

Trivia question: Is Obama's mama
Stanley Ann Durham
or
Stanley Ann Dunham

It's Dunham.

446 GreenBear  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:12:00am

re: #246 Charles

Folks, please read what Jinxmedic has posted. There's nothing fake about this. It's the real thing.

I agree but everyone's going to want to have their whack at this pinata even if all the candy's gone...

We could finish this thread with "Dead Horse" analogies, if you like.

447 The Other Les  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:12:05am

re: #431 unrealizedviewpoint

It's not proof until verification.

He walk around in broad daylight so we know he's not a vampire. But that would not preclude him being a reverse vampire though.

448 offendi  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:12:31am

re: #376 Big Steve

Maybe from under Obama's bus....there is a lot guys looking for work from there

"Under the bus" now has some additional hidden meaning?

I recall the New York Times ran an interesting article on black men " on the down low", i.e. concealing their homosexuality while acting straight. No, not writing about Obama.

Perhaps Markos thought placing the ad adjacent to an Obama story was effective and appealing placement for his advertiser's market audience? Well, I certainly wouldn't know.

449 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:12:38am

re: #444 Charles

Interesting thing about that "screw them" remark -- Kos has apparently removed the redirect that he had in place for years, to hide what he said from outside links.

You can now link directly to his vile comment.

Wow, that is interesting. The mask is off.

450 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:12:48am

re: #413 MandyManners

Looks like someone failed Composition 101.

I noticed that each paragraph is one long sentence without a single break. That's some impressive ranting there.

451 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:14:23am

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

I'm sure that the state of Hawai'i has not stopped issuing long form certified birth certificates johnm. You cannot acquire a passport, a social security card or enlist in the military with this document as it stands.

452 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:14:25am

re: #436 galloping granny

granny,
Why is there no date of issue on the front of this document. Every official doc I've had or seen has an issue date. yet noe appears on this document.

453 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:14:57am

Kinda related

Years ago, my mom needed to get a birth certificate for something. Turns out there was no birth cert for her - she was born in Choctaw Nation in 1914, and they didn't issue them. She ended up getting a census report from 1920 as an alternative.

454 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:15:13am
With the secret nuclear warhead arsenals scattered in secure storages and seated in the racks of the bomber planes and on the head of the missiles awaiting idle somewhere in the conquered land, Israel’s conceited sense of its right to rule the world as the “chosen” children, in part or whole, cannot be had without the hijacking of the financial and military sectors of Imperial West to facilitate the culture of a misanthrophically destructive program in subduing the Middle East region for its consumption in drinking the wine of despotic power to expand by the proxies of war.

That bruised my brain.

455 bosforus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:15:57am

re: #427 Ward Cleaver

How long before Kos has an imprint from one of these across his face?

Or one of these:
[Link: www.aplusschoolservices.com...]

456 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:05am

re: #444 Charles

In the new future we are creating, with 'his highness and most excellent Barack Obam'uh, these types of comments are accepted, lauded, and no longer need to be hidden.

In the new future we are creating, the intellectual-nuanced-Americans understand that hating your troops is patriotic!

Change we can believe in?

457 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:06am

re: #397 johnm

Yup. And a registered lizard for a year - with 5 total comments to your record. Frankly, I think you're wasting your time.

458 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:43am

re: #411 Cygnus

Aren't they the people who issue Zionist paychecks?

No those are the evil trilateralist zionistic neo-con masonic world domination scout cabal. (Great cookies!)

459 buckykat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:54am

From a liberal yet strongly NObama website with loads of humor: The Ten Obamaments

460 JohnnyReb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:57am

re: #453 Catttt

Kinda related

Years ago, my mom needed to get a birth certificate for something. Turns out there was no birth cert for her - she was born in Choctaw Nation in 1914, and they didn't issue them. She ended up getting a census report from 1920 as an alternative.

My grandparents used an old family bible with baptismal records in it to get an "official" birth certificate. Born at home with no doctors was the norm pre 1940s for most of America.

461 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:16:57am

re: #454 MandyManners,

I can imagine him saying it without stopping to take even one breath. Wow. The farce runs deep in this one :-)

462 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:17:07am

re: #457 Cap'n DOC

Welcome to the election season.

463 jenv  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:17:39am

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?


You presume that the authorities in question didn't assume he was a citizen. It wouldn't be the first time important facts were assumed rather than verified.

464 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:18:27am
465 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:18:50am

re: #450 Cygnus

I noticed that each paragraph is one long sentence without a single break. That's some impressive ranting there.

Well, that explains the MyObama diaries better. Looks like Kool-aid drinking Kooky Kos Kiddies wrote them. Similar style and manner.

I have seen many a comment as well stating that anyone who was pro-Hillary pretty much got knocked off the Daily Kos, or they keep their head low. Moulitsas is all tingly for Obama.

466 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:18:54am

re: #442 Shr_Nfr

The devil is in the details. Given that when he went to school, he was listed as an Indonesian citizen does this imply a renouncement of his US Citizenship? If so he can probably be "naturalized" at the request of his mother (I do not know), but this would prevent him from being POTUS. It would not prevent him from being a Senator, Governor, etc. There are too many mis-truths, half-truths, and so on for me to feel comfortable here. Also while I am reasonably well read in certain areas of the law, this is not one of them and I am not a lawyer.

Do we know that he was listed as an Indonesian citizen? That's news to me.

467 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:19:04am

Say what you like about Daily Kos, but in the past they've only been racist against the Jews.

Now? Who knows? The rules seem to have changed. I've never been a big fan of Kos, but it still shocks and saddens me to see them printing a document which mentions Barack Obama's MIDDLE NAME!

That's just racist.

You can't mention the "H" word otherwise people might assume that Obama has some association with Islam.

Not that there's anything racist about airbrushing such facts. It's not like it's "bad" to have associations with Islam, that would be racist.
It's just...it might put off those racist, religion-clinging, gun-toting right wing nuts from voting for BO.

Like when Hilary posted that photo of Obama in that turban. Turbans are fine and cool, it's just the American public don't need reminding about Obama's perfectly acceptable Muslim roots.

Or the fact that he may or may not have attended a perfectly acceptable madrassa or changed his policy on Jerusalem, the moment that those Hamas freedom fighters / terrorists* complained.

*delete as applicable

468 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:19:09am

re: #463 jenv

Now you are beating a dead horse, when there are LIVE things about this communist to beat!

469 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:19:36am

Isn't it bad enough that Obama allows troofers and anti semites to populate his website with their hate filled rhetoric? Apparently not for Obama. No,he has voluntarily associated his campaign via the leaking of this document to another denizen of troof and anti-semitism. Shame on Obama-come on Barry, tell me how much you love Jews again.

470 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:19:48am

re: #457 Cap'n DOC

Yup. And a registered lizard for a year - with 5 total comments to your record. Frankly, I think you're wasting your time.

Better right than frequent.

JohnM made excellent points.

471 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:20:01am

re: #450 Cygnus

I noticed that each paragraph is one long sentence without a single break. That's some impressive ranting there.

If that's stream of consciousness, I'd hate to read his mind.

472 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:20:05am

re: #452 unrealizedviewpoint

granny,
Why is there no date of issue on the front of this document. Every official doc I've had or seen has an issue date. yet noe appears on this document.

Because the document is not valid. If it were valid, even if it were a hurry up mass printed laser job ordered over the internet, it would have a certification of validity, a seal, a date it was generated and a signature of the issuing officer on it.

And nobody anywhere has stopped issuing them this way - they are required by law.

473 LeonidasOfSparta  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:20:56am

re: #432 realwest

reading cursorily through the latter part of this thread, I am not sure if I missed it, but didn't the MSM and DemlooniebinDwellers make a huge whooooop-a*s deal about McCain's "birth certificate" questioning if he REALLY was a US citizen because he was a military-brat (not a brat, really, just the term) born on a base that wasn't on the "US" landmass?

Good gravy, I agree with you Realwest-- why hasn't the Disassociating Tosser (in the British sense of the word) gladly and readily released this simple document? Why doesn't he get with it and do so?

I think the whole thing STINKS TO HIGH heaven, just like the dead skunk in the middle of the road (run over, no doubt, by that emptying bus which is dragging along all those casualties underneath it!)

474 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:00am

re: #461 Iron Fist

,

I can imagine him saying it without stopping to take even one breath. Wow. The farce runs deep in this one :-)

Oxygen deprivation, indeed.

475 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:01am

re: #466 JustMyView

Do we know that he was listed as an Indonesian citizen? That's news to me.

He was listed as an Indonesian citizen and a muslim when he was living in Indonesia with his mother and her second husband. (Saetoro.)

476 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:07am

The Obama is a left wing radical moonbat just like his associations, face it and attack it!

477 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:10am

re: #463 jenv

You presume that the authorities in question didn't assume he was a citizen. It wouldn't be the first time important facts were assumed rather than verified.

ABSOLUTELY!
I never mentioned the time I practiced medicine for 3 yrs.

478 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:22am

re: #457 Cap'n DOC

Yup. And a registered lizard for a year - with 5 total comments to your record. Frankly, I think you're wasting your time.

We judge a post by the length of time and number of posts someone has instead of the content of the post itself?
Damn, I missed that memo !

By that same standard, do my post(5,514 recorded, member since 12/03/06) carry more weight than yours (3,110 since 3/12/07)?

just askin!

479 right_on_target  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:23am

It looks like the BC was scanned with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
Original time stamp 2008:06:12 08:42:3.

480 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:21:56am

re: #459 buckykat

From a liberal yet strongly NObama website with loads of humor: The Ten Obamaments

That's funny.

/serve it a waffle. heh.

481 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:02am

re: #479 right_on_target

It looks like the BC was scanned with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
Original time stamp 2008:06:12 08:42:3.

That was today.

482 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:04am

re: #476 'Nam Grunt

The Obama is a left wing radical moonbat just like his associations, face it and attack it!

DING DING DING ,, ,we have a winner (no more calls)

483 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:11am

re: #421 unrealizedviewpoint

You are amazing. He could have posted it to his own site yet he gives it to his KOS.

Apparently, he is going to post it to his own FighttheSmears.com site. See unrealizedviewpoint's post @ 53.

484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:19am

re: #453 Catttt

I'm an Indian too. A Sioux, a Sioux.

(Annie Get Your Gun)

But, I'm not an Indian. You are, but not a Sioux, oh, forget it.

485 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:26am

re: #470 Cognito

Better right than frequent.

JohnM made excellent points.

No he didn't.

486 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:22:43am

re: #472 galloping granny

Because the document is not valid. If it were valid, even if it were a hurry up mass printed laser job ordered over the internet, it would have a certification of validity, a seal, a date it was generated and a signature of the issuing officer on it.

And nobody anywhere has stopped issuing them this way - they are required by law.

You're right it would have an embossed or stamped seal that would be visible. It is not there.

487 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:23:31am

re: #479 right_on_target

It looks like the BC was scanned with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
Original time stamp 2008:06:12 08:42:3.

So pretty early this morning then.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:23:39am

re: #478 sattv4u2

No. Mine do.

489 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:24:32am

Charles or any other tech-no lizard, I could use your help in tracing this now dead link.

This was sent to me by my father and would love to see it.

This is an uninterrupted 51-second video of Obama speaking; he's telling us exactly what he will do to the military...watch it before this too is removed off the web site.
Pass it on...the USA needs a Wake-up call.

[Link: www.macsmind.com...]

This is absolutely shocking & reprehensible. He plans to unilaterally disarm our nation.The question is... for what? And more specifically, for whom ?!
May be old news, I don't know.

490 LeftJustAintRight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:24:34am

Charles
It is time for a throbbing Certificate
LOL
Hahahahaha

491 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:24:38am

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. Mine do.

LOL ,,, ummm,, check your math, Mr 4,081 posts !

492 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:24:50am

re: #467 uptight

It's not like it's "bad" to have associations with Islam

Not bad? Would you call it "Good"? mohammedanism's treatment of women in particular is despicable. I would call it worse than "bad". And that's just the tip of the meteorite...

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:09am

re: #478 sattv4u2

Forgot sarc tag. Sorry.

Hey, I just figured out how to read your nic. You can tell I am a rocket scientist.

494 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:15am

re: #459 buckykat

From a liberal yet strongly NObama website with loads of humor: The Ten Obamaments

The next post down, "Obama Pod Hate the First Amendment", is good, too:


Either they attack Clinton, attack McCain or spew some drivel about the "party". This party they are talking about is not any party anyone recognizes anymore. It is Stalinist in spirit and deed - and will, no doubt, be in word in short order.

These people are dangerous, anti-American thugs.

So he even scares some of the Dems. Interesting.

495 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:20am

re: #482 sattv4u2

I've said it before but I'll say it again.

If you really want to know about Obama's policies, etc., all you need to do is listen to Pacifica Radio. They hate everything pro-American, and blame every ill in the world on the United States (and our allies). They are so left wing that they despised Clinton as a part of the corporate loving, indigenous people killing, American Colonial Empire, etc.

They LOVE Obama.

Btw: did you know that in a couple of days "the world" will be celebrating the birth of the Worlds greatest "revolutionary" Ernesto "Che" Guevera? They even just released a "movie" about his life. Ahh....Change we can believe in.

496 loppyd  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:23am

OT this will make you smile!

US Troops Celebrated In Sadr City

497 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:28am

re: #476 'Nam Grunt

The Obama is a left wing radical moonbat just like his associations, face it and attack it!


True, but this issue really needs to be put to rest for good. It doesn't take too much of a tin hat to envision the day after the Presidential election some fringe group of troofers or RonPaulians challenging the results of the election before the SCOTUS.
Are you willing to accept a scanned image from a decidedly partisan web site as evidence?

498 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:34am

re: #478 sattv4u2

Oh, just trust me on this.

499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:45am

re: #491 sattv4u2

LOL ,,, ummm,, check your math, Mr 4,081 posts !

You gotta count CV too. He had a bunch!

500 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:25:48am

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Forgot sarc tag. Sorry.

Hey, I just figured out how to read your nic. You can tell I am a rocket scientist.

great ,,,,, now can you tell ME how to read it ?

501 Son Of The Godfather  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:05am

The certificate may or may not be valid...
But I caution you, Cylons are clever, and we don't know the identity of the remaining one yet.

502 Big Steve  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:07am

I have been thinking about the comments on this post that have wondered out loud why Barack Obama's campaign would release this document to the KOS site. Well this seems to be a new strategy of meeting negative publicity head on at the level it arose. Cleary LGF and other bloggers have been doing damage the last couple of days focusing in on the Obama website and associated blogging. So to counteract these rumors, they are releasing information through a friendly site. Other than the obvious that the Kos site is being used as a complete tool, we should take this as some sort of compliment, that we are hurting Obama's cause, at least just a little bit.

503 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:28am

re: #479 right_on_target

It looks like the BC was scanned with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
Original time stamp 2008:06:12 08:42:3.

Kos indicates in his post that he scanned the document before posting it. If he received a paper copy, he'd have had to do that to put it online.

504 kahall  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:29am

Charles I can never get around your contact form rules so: The RSS feed I have on my google home page have not updated since UN's Clouseau Meeting with US Radical Islamists. FYI

505 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:50am

re: #499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You gotta count CV too. He had a bunch!

sure ,, gang up on me !

506 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:52am

re: #464 taxfreekiller

ass out of you and me

reference to the word "assume," I assume.
Or does the above apply?

/cryptic you can be

507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:26:52am

re: #502 Big Steve

Maybe he's Mexican.

508 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:27:07am

Countdown to Obama throwing Kos under a bus 3,2,1......

The is not the Daily Kos I knew!

509 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:27:16am

re: #498 Cap'n DOC

Oh, just trust me on this.

sorta kinda didn't answer the point and question, did it !

510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:27:35am

re: #505 sattv4u2

sure ,, gang up on me !

Baby, I'ma gang of one.

511 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:27:38am

OT:
President Bush on the S.Ct. decision today. Agrees with dissent (no surprise there). Disappointed and will look at issue further and possibly send up more legislation to get situation resolved.

512 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:27:42am

re: #496 loppyd

OT this will make you smile!

US Troops Celebrated In Sadr City

Yes it looks lovely there. Pride in ownership at work. Thinking of booking my next vacation there?

513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:10am

Gonna eat a tater and go to work. Bye Bye!

514 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:16am
re: #442 Shr_Nfr

The devil is in the details. Given that when he went to school, he was listed as an Indonesian citizen does this imply a renouncement of his US Citizenship? If so he can probably be "naturalized" at the request of his mother (I do not know), but this would prevent him from being POTUS. It would not prevent him from being a Senator, Governor, etc. There are too many mis-truths, half-truths, and so on for me to feel comfortable here. Also while I am reasonably well read in certain areas of the law, this is not one of them and I am not a lawyer.

He was a little boy when he lived in Indonesia! His mom took him there when he was a toddler. Also, I don't think his mom ever renounced her citizenship. She was well-educated and travelled, but she was an American all that time, as far as I have heard.

Also, Senator O was obviously born in Hawaii, and his mom was a native USA citizen. He's an American! He is eligible to be President!

515 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:17am

re: #497 EC Marm

No, but I'm willing to vote Republican on voting day, that's the least I can do and you too!

516 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:17am

re: #509 sattv4u2

Really?! I thought so - or did I?

517 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:23am

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe he's Mexican.

That's why he's against the fence. He's Mexican!

518 lobo91  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:26am

re: #476 'Nam Grunt

The Obama is a left wing radical moonbat just like his associations, face it and attack it!

I agree. Why is everyone wasting time with this? The only valid issue raised by this whole birth certificate thing is the question of why it was released to Kos, and not a credible news outlet of some sort.

I've never seen any reason to question Obama's citizenship. Has anyone seen any indication that his mother ever even visited Kenya, much less that he was born there?

There are plenty of reasons to go after Obama, but questioning his place of birth isn't one of them.

519 seekeroftruth  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:29am

re: #496 loppyd

OT this will make you smile!

US Troops Celebrated In Sadr City

Thanks for posting that link! Wonderful !

520 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:34am

re: #513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gonna eat a tater and go to work. Bye Bye!

later tater

521 buckykat  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:39am

re: #494 Ward Cleaver

Scroll down further for Obama, the post turtle.

522 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:44am

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe he's Mexican.

ESPERANZA!

errrmmm...errrrrr....


EL HOPO!

523 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:47am

re: #497 EC Marm

True, but this issue really needs to be put to rest for good. It doesn't take too much of a tin hat to envision the day after the Presidential election some fringe group of troofers or RonPaulians challenging the results of the election before the SCOTUS.
Are you willing to accept a scanned image from a decidedly partisan web site as evidence?

I'm not willing to - especially in light of the fact that this "birth certificate" is so lacking in the things one normally looks for to prove validity that I would not accept it even for proof of employment at McDonald's. No signature/seal/date.

524 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:48am

re: #511 lawhawk

OT:
President Bush on the S.Ct. decision today. Agrees with dissent (no surprise there). Disappointed and will look at issue further and possibly send up more legislation to get situation resolved.

Yup and I am sure the democrats will be ever so helpful?

525 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:49am

re: #511 lawhawk

OT:
President Bush on the S.Ct. decision today. Agrees with dissent (no surprise there). Disappointed and will look at issue further and possibly send up more legislation to get situation resolved.

Good luck with that, GWB!

526 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:28:53am

re: #502 Big Steve

I have been thinking about the comments on this post that have wondered out loud why Barack Obama's campaign would release this document to the KOS site. Well this seems to be a new strategy of meeting negative publicity head on at the level it arose. Cleary LGF and other bloggers have been doing damage the last couple of days focusing in on the Obama website and associated blogging. So to counteract these rumors, they are releasing information through a friendly site. Other than the obvious that the Kos site is being used as a complete tool, we should take this as some sort of compliment, that we are hurting Obama's cause, at least just a little bit.

Possibly they just wanted to release it to a site with a very wide readership.

527 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:29:02am

Most people never see the original certificate of live birth, which is filled out by medical staff using medical information and information given to the staff by the mother. It is signed by the doctor at the time of delivery. Sometimes it contains quite a lot of information regarding the pregnancy, labor and delivery that is not seen on this extract, such as (at least in my state) ethnicity, gestational age, complications, method of delivery, etc.

Primarily, it's used for epidemiologic data for public health purposes. I am not sure Obama could ask for the original even if he wanted to. His mother would have to agree to it as well. So this is about as good as it gets.

But I find it exceedingly weird that he would release it through Kos, and not his own web site, even if Kos were not the epicenter of far left thought in this country. Is he trying to lend legitimacy to Kos? Maybe he doesn't want traffic to his blog right now....

I think it would be great if the MSM took offense.

528 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:29:30am

re: #516 Cap'n DOC

Really?! I thought so - or did I?

lemme check ,,,,,
on second viewing, that would still be a NO

529 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:29:52am

re: #512 Nevergiveup

Who is the little girl with short sleeves, and camera?

530 Big Steve  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:30:40am

re: #526 JustMyView

Possibly they just wanted to release it to a site with a very wide readership.


Yea possibly but if that was the case, why not send it to Drudge, he whupps Kos's ass in terms of hits.

531 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:30:57am

re: #529 WrathofG-d

Who is the little girl with short sleeves, and camera?

I was thinking the same thing. Is she a tiny reporter? Must work for a small news service?

532 jcm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:15am

re: #511 lawhawk

OT:
President Bush on the S.Ct. decision today. Agrees with dissent (no surprise there). Disappointed and will look at issue further and possibly send up more legislation to get situation resolved.

What's the precedent or law on POTUS ie. executive branch saying, SOTUS is off the reservation and this ruling will be ignored?

Separation of powers issue.

533 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:17am

re: #394 Cognito

How do you spell OBTUSE?

534 'Nam Grunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:25am

re: #531 Nevergiveup

NBC!

535 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:27am

re: #531 Nevergiveup

I was thinking the same thing. Is she a tiny reporter? Must work for a small news service?

Hobbit Free Press

536 LeonidasOfSparta  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:34am

re: #502 Big Steve

you may have a point (and not on top of your head...joke)
That useless-marxist-moron BHO may be so tired of having to figure out which LIE to coverup on his own site he's started releasing things through other sites so that someone else will get walloped.

BUT...there's always a but....
it just reveals what a lying wussyman he is.

If he could JUST TELL THE TRUTH none of this schicanery would be necessary; it is obvious, however, that he has to spread the lies around so that they will be harder to discover. MUWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

He doesn't know our Charles, though, does he? Or the tenacity of patriots who find his style of self-aggrandizing socialism to be UNACCEPTABLE for our dear nation.

537 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:56am

re: #532 jcm

What's the precedent or law on POTUS ie. executive branch saying, SOTUS is off the reservation and this ruling will be ignored?

Separation of powers issue.

Nixon tried that and it didn't work out so good for him.

538 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:31:56am

re: #503 JustMyView

Kos indicates in his post that he scanned the document before posting it. If he received a paper copy, he'd have had to do that to put it online.

That would be darned quick work for Obama to fetch his birth certificate from somewhere in Chicago and then send it hard copy to KOS in time for him to scan it and get it online this morning. Something smells . . . . . .

539 MES41067  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:32:34am

If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

540 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:32:48am

re: #533 Cap'n DOC

How do you spell OBTUSE?

He doesn't want to know....

541 snowcrash  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:32:52am

re: #530 Big Steve
Maybe repayment for loyalty. Kos dumped support for Hillary long before she left the campaign.

542 LeonidasOfSparta  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:33:08am

KOS kids---- UNDER THE BUS!

how long do you think that will take?

543 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:33:11am

re: #530 Big Steve

Maybe Obama wants to confine this little dustup to the blogosphere so as to not bring up the dread "H" word and the fact that his dad is Kenyan. I am willing to bet there are some people that don't know that, and they don't read blogs.

544 MES41067  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:33:39am

re: #542 LeonidasOfSparta

KOS kids---- UNDER THE BUS!

how long do you think that will take?

Soon I hope.

545 Catttt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:33:40am

re: #489 jorline

Charles or any other tech-no lizard, I could use your help in tracing this now dead link.

This was sent to me by my father and would love to see it.

This is an uninterrupted 51-second video of Obama speaking; he's telling us exactly what he will do to the military...watch it before this too is removed off the web site.
Pass it on...the USA needs a Wake-up call.

[Link: www.macsmind.com...]

This is absolutely shocking & reprehensible. He plans to unilaterally disarm our nation.The question is... for what? And more specifically, for whom ?!
May be old news, I don't know.



It's not dead, Jim.

546 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:34:43am

re: #532 jcm

What's the precedent or law on POTUS ie. executive branch saying, SOTUS is off the reservation and this ruling will be ignored?

Separation of powers issue.

Can't happen. The Supremes have final authority. The administration has to find a legislative solution, which will be difficult.

547 Mike in Georgia  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:34:52am

His father's race is listed as African. When did African
become a race. In 1961 wouldn't he be listed as Negro?

548 Big Steve  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:02am

re: #543 angst


Very good point, respond back at the level the attack is coming from and, as you say, don't risk larger discussion of his background. Maybe they are getting smarter.

549 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:05am

re: #529 WrathofG-d

Who is the little girl with short sleeves, and camera?

That's a bit disturbing, actually.

I hope she's a very small adult, instead of somebody's little girl.

550 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:10am

re: #531 Nevergiveup

Ha! Your jokes were only a little funny though.

Its odd though. She doesn't work for the Armed Forces (as she is not in full uniform) and doesn't seem to work for Press as she isn't wearing the Press blue flak jacket.

odd. I tell you. Must be Zionst spy.

551 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:13am

re: #539 MES41067

If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Is that why my wife makes me sleep in the garage?

/scratches head vigorously

552 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:18am

re: #538 galloping granny

That would be darned quick work for Obama to fetch his birth certificate from somewhere in Chicago and then send it hard copy to KOS in time for him to scan it and get it online this morning. Something smells . . . . . .

FedEx is pretty standard mail for biz and attnys. I want to know where the embossed seal is.

553 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:42am

re: #526 JustMyView

Possibly they just wanted to release it to a site with a very wide readership.

Then why not release it to Foxnews?
Or LGF?
Or the Washington Post?
ABC?
MSNBC?

BTW, what is your nic on DKos?

554 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:35:58am

re: #547 Mike in Georgia

His father's race is listed as African. When did African
become a race. In 1961 wouldn't he be listed as Negro?



Dad was from Africa, amd Mom was from the Caucasus.

What's the problem?

/

555 bellamags  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:25am

re: #547 Mike in Georgia

I think you might be right, unless they were referring to his nationality.

556 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:30am

re: #545 Catttt

If Obama does not get swiftboated by this video, the RNC is run by incompetent fools and their candidate is a wimp.

557 snowcrash  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:49am

re: #542 LeonidasOfSparta

Never. These are the true believers of the Democrat Party.

558 MES41067  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:52am

re: #551 jorline

Is that why my wife makes me sleep in the garage?

/scratches head vigorously

Yep.

559 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:55am

re: #529 WrathofG-d

Who is the little girl with short sleeves, and camera?

Bring Your Daughter To Work Day?

560 MadJadBad  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:36:55am

I'd rather hear BHO explain how increasing taxes on oil companies will lower the price of gasoline.

561 razorbacker  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:10am

OT if any thread with 500+ posts has a topic still...Rush is commenting on how terrible today's Supreme ruling on the Gitmo bunch. He hasn't considered the one true law...The Law Of Unintended Consequences.

I betcha that what now starts to happen is that a lot of these folks who would have been formerly captured will 'decide to fight to the death.'

A consummation devoutly to be desired, in my not humble opinion. They've been liable under International Law (note the capitalization to show how vitally important it is) to summary execution on the battlefield all along.

In this case, follow the law.

562 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:10am

re: #545 Catttt


It's not dead, Jim.


I get an HTTP 500 Internal Service Error, Jim.

Damn Vista?

563 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:39am

re: #550 WrathofG-d

Ha! Your jokes were only a little funny though.

Its odd though. She doesn't work for the Armed Forces (as she is not in full uniform) and doesn't seem to work for Press as she isn't wearing the Press blue flak jacket.

odd. I tell you. Must be Zionst spy.

That's ok I don't aim that high. Any way is a little funny like a little pregnant?

564 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:50am

re: #553 Typicalwhitey

re: #554 OldLineTexan

Two great posts back to back

565 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:50am

re: #562 jorline

I get an HTTP 500 Internal Service Error, Jim.

Damn Vista?

GATES! ! !

/shakes fist at sky

566 Cognito  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:37:56am

re: #553 Typicalwhitey

Then why not release it to Foxnews?
Or LGF?
Or the Washington Post?
ABC?
MSNBC?

BTW, what is your nic on DKos?

For what it's worth, I assume they gave it to Kos because:

1) Kos asked for it. And,

2) It's senseless to take a more-or-less unknown allegation and respond to it in much larger media.

567 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:38:24am

re: #560 MadJadBad

I'd rather hear BHO explain how increasing taxes on oil companies will lower the price of gasoline.

or raising coorporate taxes will encourage those companies to keep jobs here

568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:38:26am

re: #546 JustMyView

The Supremes have final authority.

Don't tell Diana Ross.

569 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:38:33am

re: #542 LeonidasOfSparta,

Won't happen. The Krazy Kos Kidz are the base of the Democratic Party now. Obama pissing on them would be as dumb as McCain pissing on us would be.

Wait a minute...

570 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:38:39am

re: #538 galloping granny

That would be darned quick work for Obama to fetch his birth certificate from somewhere in Chicago and then send it hard copy to KOS in time for him to scan it and get it online this morning. Something smells . . . . . .

That conclusion depends on knowing when he sent it, doesn't it? That's something we have no way of knowing. And, as unrealizedviewpoint says, it could easily have been sent yesterday---even late yesterday.

571 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:38:50am

re: #526 JustMyView

Possibly they just wanted to release it to a site with a very wide readership.

Why not release it to the (allegedly) non-partisan MSM?

572 Mike in Georgia  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:00am

re: #554 OldLineTexan

I didn't know that they listed African as a race. Just asking,
no problem.

573 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:03am

re: #554 OldLineTexan

Heh. I told a pollster I was white but not caucasian. I said my ancestors were Irish and Slovenian.
The silence was deafening.

574 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:07am

re: #568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't tell Diana Ross.

Or the Pips.

/they get real pissy

575 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:32am

re: #573 angst

Heh. I told a pollster I was white but not caucasian. I said my ancestors were Irish and Slovenian.
The silence was deafening.

HEY! We're related!

576 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:32am

re: #397 johnm

Again given the outright contradictions in the man's story of himself vs facts from other sources, I am not sure that anything he says should not get the strict scrutiny test. The question is not one of not looking authentic, the question is one about being authentic. As an experiment with around 15 min of photo-shop I can be Stanley's son on something that "looks" authentic as "SHR NFR". I continue to not like the compression artifacts I am seeing, but maybe I am reading too much into them.

577 MES41067  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:53am

re: #571 MandyManners

Why not release it to the (allegedly) non-partisan MSM?


Because to them its one and the same.

578 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:39:53am

re: #563 Nevergiveup

Little & pregnant are two terms I don't tend to use in the sentence.

;)

579 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:40:23am

re: #556 angst

If Obama does not get swiftboated by this video, the RNC is run by incompetent fools and their candidate is a wimp.

They need couple that video with this one from 2004

580 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:40:35am

re: #575 OldLineTexan

Sshh. You don't want to admit that.

581 astronmr20  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:40:45am

O/T

Breaking:

Over 50 rockets fired from gaza today.

I'm assuming we can get ready for some LGF posts that will show how the MSM will "spin" this.

582 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:40:50am

re: #572 Mike in Georgia

I didn't know that they listed African as a race. Just asking,
no problem.

I put a sarc tag in there.

'Twas supposed to be a joke. Hence the Caucasus thing.

Nothing against you. I like to get to know people before I rag on them, you know!

583 Mike in Georgia  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:06am

re: #575 OldLineTexan

I'm a little slow today. That floated right over my head.

584 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:14am

re: #581 astronmr20

O/T

Breaking:

Over 50 rockets fired from gaza today.

I'm assuming we can get ready for some LGF posts that will show how the MSM will "spin" this.

Truce must be in effect.

585 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:25am

re: #569 Iron Fist

,

Won't happen. The Krazy Kos Kidz are the base bus of the Democratic Party now. Obama pissing on them would be as dumb as McCain pissing on us would be.

Wait a minute...

/snicker

586 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:25am

re: #556 angst

If Obama does not get swiftboated by this video, the RNC is run by incompetent fools and their candidate is a wimp.

Just sent a link to it to the McCain Campaign

587 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:29am

re: #526 JustMyView

I don't think that cuts it.

588 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:38am

re: #553 Typicalwhitey

Then why not release it to Foxnews?
Or LGF?
Or the Washington Post?
ABC?
MSNBC?

BTW, what is your nic on DKos?

Surprising as this may be, the Obama campaign doesn't call me to explain their actions.

589 seekeroftruth  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:41:44am

re: #562 jorline

Try this :


It's the 52 second video

590 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:42:00am

re: #527 angst

Most people never see the original certificate of live birth, which is filled out by medical staff using medical information and information given to the staff by the mother. It is signed by the doctor at the time of delivery. Sometimes it contains quite a lot of information regarding the pregnancy, labor and delivery that is not seen on this extract, such as (at least in my state) ethnicity, gestational age, complications, method of delivery, etc.

Primarily, it's used for epidemiologic data for public health purposes. I am not sure Obama could ask for the original even if he wanted to. His mother would have to agree to it as well. So this is about as good as it gets.

But I find it exceedingly weird that he would release it through Kos, and not his own web site, even if Kos were not the epicenter of far left thought in this country. Is he trying to lend legitimacy to Kos? Maybe he doesn't want traffic to his blog right now....

I think it would be great if the MSM took offense.

Virtually none of this is true. Obama's mother cannot agree to anything as she is dead - as is his father. Once a child becomes 18 all personal data associated with his parent's birth certificate is HIS - not the state's. And since his parents are dead, any information about them of like nature belongs to him as well.

None of the information regarding labor, delivery or pregnancy is reported to the state unless the mother has contracted an STD or HIV. Those are reportable, but the report is not connected in any way to the birth certificate.

Epidemiological information like mothers age at the time of birth is anonymous and collected at a state level, again not connected with the information provided for the birth certificate.

591 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:42:04am
592 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:42:13am

re: #580 angst

Sshh. You don't want to admit that.

ROTFLMAO. Not only are we related, we have the same problem!

/

593 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:42:46am

re: #586 Typicalwhitey

Green for you. (Is that what we call it?)

594 jpfletcher  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:42:53am

I posted the EXIF info from the Birth Certificate and from another document that was scanned sometime last year along with a zoom of Obama's name from the certificate and the scanned document for the second EXIF info.
[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

595 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:43:19am

re: #547 Mike in Georgia

His father's race is listed as African. When did African
become a race. In 1961 wouldn't he be listed as Negro?

In 1961 it would be listed as negro. today he would be listed as black. African is not a race.

596 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:43:21am

re: #588 JustMyView

Surprising as this may be, the Obama campaign doesn't call me to explain their actions.

I have just been laboring under the assumption that they lost my number.

597 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:43:47am

re: #565 OldLineTexan

GATES! ! !

/shakes fist at sky

I have vista and could see the video

598 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:44:47am

re: #597 Typicalwhitey

I have vista and could see the video

I have a Vista machine at home, but not here.

599 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:44:57am

re: #547 Mike in Georgia

1997 OMB classifications of race are "Black" or "African American". Pure "African" would be non-conforming, but then again such things might leak into a database via a typist, so I would not damn it for that alone.

600 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:45:56am

re: #589 seekeroftruth

Try this : [Link: www.youtube.com...]
It's the 52 second video

Thanks for clear link seeker...lizards, if you have not seen this please click the link.

This should be the torpedo in Obama's Shift Boat!

601 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:46:33am

re: #3 Power Armored Lizardoid

Go go throbbing birth certificate!

/disturbing Inspector Gadget

...courtesy of a mysterious fax machine in Abilene, Texas...

/satire

602 Typicalwhitey  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:46:43am

re: #588 JustMyView

Surprising as this may be, the Obama campaign doesn't call me to explain their actions.

You gave your opinion that they released it to Kos

"Possibly they just wanted to release it to a site with a very wide readership"


I asked your opinion as to why if they wanted "wide readership" they just didn't send it to a reputable source with a far wider viewership.

You didn't answer.
What is your nic on DKos?

603 lurking faith  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:46:58am

re: #394 Cognito

So you think Obama might be an illegal immigrant who has fooled all levels of the American government, up to the Presidency?

Really?

Are you deliberately restating her comment to say something that she specifically denied, or are you just really poor at reading comprehension today?

She said the question is NOT whether he is a citizen. Duh.

604 Mike in Georgia  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:47:01am

re: #599 Shr_Nfr

It just seemed to be an odd connotation to be from 1961.

605 venezuela lover  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:47:08am

Its a fake. Enlarge the certificate by clicking on it. Then look at the letter "O"s in the Barack Hussein Obama compared to the "O"s in Honolulu. The green background is missing. In fact, the green background disappears in most of the Obama specific information. Its as if it were altered.

Then look a little above the words "fact of birth" in the bottom line. A faded date appears in reverse. It says June 6, 2007. Has this cerificate been used before?

Can someone explain these?
thanks

606 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:47:12am

re: #581 astronmr20

O/T

Breaking:

Over 50 rockets fired from gaza today.

I'm assuming we can get ready for some LGF posts that will show how the MSM will "spin" this.

easy

"Today, in response to a stray rocket entering an Israeli occupied territory, the Israeli Defense Forces launched an attack on a Palastinian refugee camp, killing at least 50 women and children"

607 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:47:41am

re: #590 galloping granny

granny, I filled them out. Hundreds of them. I was talking about the original certificate of live birth. It is only carbon copies, and that's why no one can ever get the data. Where do you think the March of Dimes gets all the info on prematurity, etc. etc. From this little piece of paper. This is where the epidemiological data comes from "at the state level." Extracted from the original certificate of live birth.

As for obama's mamma- I didn't know she was dead. I stand corrected on that.

608 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:47:54am

re: #597 Typicalwhitey

I have vista and could see the video

Damn, seeker provided me with a better link...non-typicalwhitey here!

609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:48:05am

re: #605 venezuela lover

Play it backwards and it says "Paul is dead." and "Turn me on dead man".

610 LeftJustAintRight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:48:06am

Can we request a Birth Certificate from Kenya ?
The 57th state

611 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:49:38am

re: #492 Cap'n DOC

Not bad? Would you call it "Good"? mohammedanism's treatment of women in particular is despicable. I would call it worse than "bad". And that's just the tip of the meteorite...

calling Islam "bad" would be "off-message" for kossacks

no fear

the only reason they redacted "Hussein" from any conversation was fear that us rednecks might use it against him

which roughly means that they think it's a negative attribute, but don't have the balls to say so

612 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:49:53am

re: #609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Play it backwards and it says "Paul is dead." and "Turn me on dead man".

Ron Paul DIED ?

613 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:50:36am

re: #612 sattv4u2

Ron Paul DIED ?

LMAO

614 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:50:41am

re: #492 Cap'n DOC

Not bad? Would you call it "Good"? mohammedanism's treatment of women in particular is despicable. I would call it worse than "bad". And that's just the tip of the meteorite...

I should also clear mark my attempts at sarcasm

615 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:50:53am

re: #612 sattv4u2

Ron Paul DIED ?

From the looks of him, I'd say it was a while back.

616 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:51:19am

re: #615 OldLineTexan

From the looks of him, I'd say it was a while back.

can I claim his wife ?

617 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:51:48am

re: #570 JustMyView

That conclusion depends on knowing when he sent it, doesn't it? That's something we have no way of knowing. And, as unrealizedviewpoint says, it could easily have been sent yesterday---even late yesterday.

No, not really. Virtually everyone keeps their birth certificate somewhere near or in their primary residence. That would be Chicago. Nobody travels around with the thing - especially not a short form uncertified "copy." Even if you pay extra for overnight delivery, you're talking at least overnight for delivery of a hard copy of anything.

And then there is this: would YOU put your birth certificate into the mail/FedEx to somebody? Even a "reporter." I can't think of anyone who would because a real one is one whole heck of a lot of trouble to replace. Most people I know don't even like the idea of mailing it in to Social Security - which you have to do here in Vermont if you don't want to travel 100 miles or more to go there.

And WHO then took the registration (serial) number off of the certificate? Because it sure is not valid and cannot even be confirmed without the bloody serial number? Obama did not black it out himself. So KOS must have altered it. . . . . because the do not come issued that way, even for someone as special as Obama.

618 venezuela lover  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:52:07am

re: #609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Play it backwards and it says "Paul is dead." and "Turn me on dead man".

FBV, go ahead and enlarge it and see for yourself. Then tell me how to put the certificate into a cd player and play it in reverse. you may be on to something.

619 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:52:10am

re: #616 sattv4u2

can I claim his wife ?

NO ,, WAIT , my bad ,, thats's Kucinich's wife thats HOT

Paul ,, Kucinich,,,, one in the same, IMHO

620 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:52:34am

re: #616 sattv4u2

can I claim his wife ?

You put that back; you know where it's been.

621 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:52:52am

re: #605 venezuela lover

Its a fake. Enlarge the certificate by clicking on it. Then look at the letter "O"s in the Barack Hussein Obama compared to the "O"s in Honolulu. The green background is missing. In fact, the green background disappears in most of the Obama specific information. Its as if it were altered.

Then look a little above the words "fact of birth" in the bottom line. A faded date appears in reverse. It says June 6, 2007. Has this cerificate been used before?

Can someone explain these?
thanks

I suspect this is a many generation document (a copy of a copy of a copy)

622 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:53:04am

re: #599 Shr_Nfr

1997 OMB classifications of race are "Black" or "African American". Pure "African" would be non-conforming, but then again such things might leak into a database via a typist, so I would not damn it for that alone.

See my post above. this is on a form that was revised in November of 2001 (see date bottom left), therefor it was definitely NOT printed in 1997.

623 mattm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:53:21am

Something seem fishy about this. Why would Obama not release it on his Web Site and not sen it off to some blog that many people may not know about. IF you are just getting into the whole campaign you would look at at the McCain or BHO official site, not some random blog.

624 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:53:34am

re: #620 OldLineTexan

You put that back; you know where it's been.

eeewwww ,,, good point

625 ccrnyc  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:54:25am

My blatant photoshop is alot better than kos' blatant photoshop.

626 jorline  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:55:08am

re: #615 OldLineTexan

From the looks of him, I'd say it was a while back.

Paul needs a visit for Kucinich's wife...look what it did for Dennis.

627 mattm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:57:32am

re: #566 Cognito

For what it's worth, I assume they gave it to Kos because:

1) Kos asked for it. And,

2) It's senseless to take a more-or-less unknown allegation and respond to it in much larger media.

The thing is as the presumed dem POTUS nominee, this is a huge issue. The "non-biased" MSM has covered for him every step of the way.

628 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:58:09am

I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T release it to Kos.

His new anti-Shmear website commandos were put together to fight INTERNET rumors.

This is probably their first assignment.

We are not Baruch's audience. The netroots are.

629 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:58:25am

re: #607 angst

granny, I filled them out. Hundreds of them. I was talking about the original certificate of live birth. It is only carbon copies, and that's why no one can ever get the data. Where do you think the March of Dimes gets all the info on prematurity, etc. etc. From this little piece of paper. This is where the epidemiological data comes from "at the state level." Extracted from the original certificate of live birth.

As for obama's mamma- I didn't know she was dead. I stand corrected on that.

I've filled them out too. Virtually all of that information is Obama's property. Some of it would never appear on the long form birth certificate and some of it is entered anonymously into a database about teen mothers or whatever, but he can get all of it that was recorded in connection with him. The form the hospital submits is different state to state. Some states allow the use of a single form, others have separate forms for birth info (which will be public) vs. epidemiological info.(which is part of an aggregate.)

630 bellamags  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:59:06am

Look at the seal closely. It looks like the lettering on the bottom half of the seal has been outlined with the pen feature in "paint". Why bother with that? and if that had been done, why not the name and other information.

631 jayzee  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:59:37am

re: #627 mattm

The thing is as the presumed dem POTUS nominee, this is a huge issue. The "non-biased" MSM has covered for him every step of the way.

He is going to war against the blogosphere. IMHO that's why. He can't attack everyone because some are allies, so to dismiss the medium is foolish. So you pick the good ones and slander the others.

632 hippieforlife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:00:00pm

re: #405 hippieforlife

Oops! I meant to reply to #53. I'll try to do better.

633 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:00:03pm

re: #610 LeftJustAintRight

Can we request a Birth Certificate from Kenya ?
The 57th state

yes

634 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:01:20pm

>

re: #610 LeftJustAintRight

Can we request a Birth Certificate from Kenya ?
The 57th state

re: #633 uptight

yes

I tried that once. They Fed-Ex'd me a goat !

635 littleben  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:01:58pm

Wow. You mean the Messiah was actually born; to a human mother and father? There goes the Messiah and Halo vote.

636 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:02:04pm

re: #625 ccrnyc

My blatant photoshop is alot better than kos' blatant photoshop.

Did you see my throbbing wonder.

I'm very proud of it.

637 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:02:18pm

re: #629 galloping granny

Okay, then we're agreed. He can get the data, since his mom is dead. Like I said, I didn't know that. But there's a lot of medical data on the original certificate of live birth that never makes it to the birth certificate.

638 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:03:01pm

re: #636 uptight

Um, I am not at all sure I want to look at your throbbing wonder.

639 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:03:53pm

re: #634 sattv4u2

>
I tried that once. They Fed-Ex'd me a goat !

More fool you.

I'm in the middle of a complex deal to bring out the personal fortune of the widow of their late oil minister.

They just need my banking details.

fingers crossed

640 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:04:29pm

re: #638 angst

Um, I am not at all sure I want to look at your throbbing wonder.

It's won prizes at county shows

641 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:04:33pm

re: #639 uptight

More fool you.

I'm in the middle of a complex deal to bring out the personal fortune of the widow of their late oil minister.

They just need my banking details.

fingers crossed

hold out for the goat. It'll be worth more !

642 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:04:45pm

re: #637 angst

Okay, then we're agreed. He can get the data, since his mom is dead. Like I said, I didn't know that. But there's a lot of medical data on the original certificate of live birth that never makes it to the birth certificate.

In some states - in others that medical data goes separately. And in 1961 not so much anyway. What should be there - and he could get whether or not his parents were dead - are the things I am sure you remember filling in like parents addresses and occupations and places of birth.

643 ccrnyc  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:05:52pm

re: #639 uptight

More fool you.

I'm in the middle of a complex deal to bring out the personal fortune of the widow of their late oil minister.

They just need my banking details.

fingers crossed

I got my check yesterday, the nigerians are nice people.
They also sent me a 25 dollar gift card to Applebees, and all I have to do is email 9 of my friends

644 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:06:00pm

re: #617 galloping granny

No, not really. Virtually everyone keeps their birth certificate somewhere near or in their primary residence. That would be Chicago. Nobody travels around with the thing - especially not a short form uncertified "copy." Even if you pay extra for overnight delivery, you're talking at least overnight for delivery of a hard copy of anything.

And then there is this: would YOU put your birth certificate into the mail/FedEx to somebody? Even a "reporter." I can't think of anyone who would because a real one is one whole heck of a lot of trouble to replace. Most people I know don't even like the idea of mailing it in to Social Security - which you have to do here in Vermont if you don't want to travel 100 miles or more to go there.

And WHO then took the registration (serial) number off of the certificate? Because it sure is not valid and cannot even be confirmed without the bloody serial number? Obama did not black it out himself. So KOS must have altered it. . . . . because the do not come issued that way, even for someone as special as Obama.

It's a copy made from information contained in a state database. He could get any number of them. Sending it away is no big deal.

This has been explained repeatedly above. It's time to drop this issue.

645 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:07:55pm

re: #612 sattv4u2

Ron Paul DIED ?

does that mean Stig O'Hara is alive?

646 jpfletcher  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:09:29pm
647 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:10:03pm

re: #372 faraway

We know that his father had an un-divorced wife back in Kenya, so his marriage was legally bigamous. But then Rockefeller's father had a couple of families and old John D. never talked to him again after he found out.

It actually makes it cleaner for him if he was not married to her. But again, his status during his time in Indonesia has been shown to have been repeatedly mis-reported by him, so the bullshitometer has to have a high setting.

I know that if I said something substantive that I knew was incorrect to a federal official it would possibly be prosecuted as a felony even if I was not under oath. I am holding him to the same standard.

648 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:11:45pm

re: #647 Shr_Nfr

We know that his father had an un-divorced wife back in Kenya, so his marriage was legally bigamous. But then Rockefeller's father had a couple of families and old John D. never talked to him again after he found out.

It actually makes it cleaner for him if he was not married to her. But again, his status during his time in Indonesia has been shown to have been repeatedly mis-reported by him, so the bullshitometer has to have a high setting.

I know that if I said something substantive that I knew was incorrect to a federal official it would possibly be prosecuted as a felony even if I was not under oath. I am holding him to the same standard.

I hate to raise this question, because I can't stay long, but what is it about his time in Indonesia that you believe to have been misreported?

649 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:11:47pm

re: #642 galloping granny

Yes, and they used to ask questions about marital status which they don't ask any more, at least in my state. Interesting when the legal parents were the same sex. Our form just wasn't up to the task.

Now it's more medical data and less social data which is interesting because the social data probably has more of an impact these days, but it's not PC to ask.

650 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:12:25pm

re: #644 JustMyView

It's a copy made from information contained in a state database. He could get any number of them. Sending it away is no big deal.

This has been explained repeatedly above. It's time to drop this issue.

It is a copy but it is not a certified copy. Obviously you have never had to get one. At best it is an inconvenience. At worst it can be a nightmare. And a real birth certificate in the wrong hands can cause you problems, because that will get you a social security card and a driver's license. Sending a real birth certificate out is a very big deal. You go right ahead and drop it if you want to JustMyView. You do work for Obama, don't you?

651 lurking faith  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:14:51pm

re: #621 unrealizedviewpoint

I suspect this is a many generation document (a copy of a copy of a copy)

I was thinking that, too. And that would make it useless as evidence.

Perhaps we could put together a petition that Obama should request a certified copy be sent by Hawaii straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Since this is a Constitutional issue, they would be the appropriate authority. An official from Hawaii's records office could testify to the document's authenticity.

In fact, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to require documentation from all candidates where there is any question about their status as natural-born citizens. Or all candidates.

What do you all think?

652 galloping granny  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:16:57pm

re: #651 lurking faith

I was thinking that, too. And that would make it useless as evidence.

Perhaps we could put together a petition that Obama should request a certified copy be sent by Hawaii straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Since this is a Constitutional issue, they would be the appropriate authority. An official from Hawaii's records office could testify to the document's authenticity.

In fact, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to require documentation from all candidates where there is any question about their status as natural-born citizens. Or all candidates.

What do you all think?

We make a local teenager who wants a job at McDonald's produce a valid work permit and a certified birth certificate, along with whatever other documentation is required by INS. Why should a candidate for public office - ANY public office - be allowed to produce less than the same?

653 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:17:43pm

re: #650 galloping granny

It is a copy but it is not a certified copy. Obviously you have never had to get one. At best it is an inconvenience. At worst it can be a nightmare. And a real birth certificate in the wrong hands can cause you problems, because that will get you a social security card and a driver's license. Sending a real birth certificate out is a very big deal. You go right ahead and drop it if you want to JustMyView. You do work for Obama, don't you?

No, I don't work for him. I just like to stay in touch w/ reality rather than fantasizing about non-existent problems.

The scan says that it serves as "prima facie evidence of birth in any court proceeding". Isn't that sufficient?

654 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:18:23pm

re: #1 WrathofG-d

No raised seal, no signatures, no notary.
I have never seen any certificate or certification issued without a raised seal.
I don't believe the US passport office would take this as proof of citizenship.
It smells pretty bad.

655 uptight  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:18:54pm

re: #647 Shr_Nfr

We know that his father had an un-divorced wife back in Kenya, so his marriage was legally bigamous.

Obamas in Kenya

656 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:19:45pm

re: #651 lurking faith

I was thinking that, too. And that would make it useless as evidence.

Perhaps we could put together a petition that Obama should request a certified copy be sent by Hawaii straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Since this is a Constitutional issue, they would be the appropriate authority. An official from Hawaii's records office could testify to the document's authenticity.

In fact, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to require documentation from all candidates where there is any question about their status as natural-born citizens. Or all candidates.

What do you all think?

Why not call the campaign and ask them to send you a copy? If you click on "Contact Us" at the bottom of their homepage, you'll get to a page that has the phone number of the Chicago campaign headquarters.

657 Roger  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:20:24pm

On the Update: Is Moulitsas feeling confident? Is he feeling lucky?

-------

The problem with Obama's ties with Kos is McCain is trying to do the same and starts a blog linking Kos. Great.

658 eric  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:21:56pm

I too have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Conn. 1967) and it looks nothing like this. Much more information including blood type mother's maiden name address, how many children born alive, how many children born dead
Also, there is date stamp on the back of this, did any one else see it? June 6, 2007.

re: #24 goddessoftheclassroom

I have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Baltimore, 1964). It's a photocopy with a stamp. Since it's a photocopy, the text is TYPEWRITTEN.

This seems to be info typed on a computer.

659 eaglewingz08  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:23:22pm

Something also seems fishy. African is not a race it is a continent.
It would be like putting Asia or Asian down for race, or European. I guess Theresa Heinz Kerry also had African on her birth certificate as well.

660 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:23:42pm

re: #650 galloping granny

It is a copy but it is not a certified copy. Obviously you have never had to get one. At best it is an inconvenience. At worst it can be a nightmare. And a real birth certificate in the wrong hands can cause you problems, because that will get you a social security card and a driver's license. Sending a real birth certificate out is a very big deal. You go right ahead and drop it if you want to JustMyView. You do work for Obama, don't you?

HOLD THE WEDDING ! You and Real told me in a PREVIOUS thread that redacting the Certificate # was no big deal when I stated that it could lead to IDENTITY theft ! Now YOU state "because that will get you a social security card and a driver's license"

661 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:25:47pm

re: #648 JustMyView

"I never went to mosque.", "I never 'was' a Muslim." Whatever "was" is (sound familiar) All the rest of that. Demonstrably incorrect. He went to mosque. He was registered by his father as a Muslim at the local school. He received classes in Muslim Religion even when he attended the Catholic School there as is required. Again, he was registered as a citizen of Indonesia by his step-father. This last is a technicality perhaps, but it should get properly addressed my Mr. Obama given that it is now known. His father was a Muslim in an Islamic country. All your everything belongs to us. Repatriation may make him a "naturalized" citizen again, but that is not enough to be POTUS. The goobinator of CA is a "naturalized" citizen of the US but can't be POTUS.

662 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:27:26pm

re: #658 eric

I too have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Conn. 1967) and it looks nothing like this. Much more information including blood type mother's maiden name address, how many children born alive, how many children born dead
Also, there is date stamp on the back of this, did any one else see it? June 6, 2007.

You're coming in late. This is not a copy of his birth certificate. It is a certification of his birth based on information contained in a state database. If you read above and also check out Charles's update at the top of the thread, you'll see that this is the kind of document routinely issued in response to requests for certification of birth.

663 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:30:29pm

re: #661 Shr_Nfr

As Mr. Rove observed, even Mr. Obama said: "Don't tell me words don't matter!" Sen. Barack Obama thundered at a Wisconsin Democratic Party dinner in February.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Words matter. Just tell the truth, that way you do not have to remember what you said.

664 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:30:33pm

re: #661 Shr_Nfr

"I never went to mosque.", "I never 'was' a Muslim." Whatever "was" is (sound familiar) All the rest of that. Demonstrably incorrect. He went to mosque. He was registered by his father as a Muslim at the local school. He received classes in Muslim Religion even when he attended the Catholic School there as is required. Again, he was registered as a citizen of Indonesia by his step-father. This last is a technicality perhaps, but it should get properly addressed my Mr. Obama given that it is now known. His father was a Muslim in an Islamic country. All your everything belongs to us. Repatriation may make him a "naturalized" citizen again, but that is not enough to be POTUS. The goobinator of CA is a "naturalized" citizen of the US but can't be POTUS.

Actually, it was his stepfather that was a Muslim in an Islamic country, but let's not confuse ourselves w/ the basics.

He was born here. His mother was a citizen. He is a citizen. He is eligible to be POTUS.

Suggest you check out FighttheSmears.com for info re his religious upbringing. Most of what you have written is gossip for which there is no documented evidence.

As I said earlier, I've gotta run, but I'm sure we'll bump into each other later.

665 JustMyView  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:33:41pm

re: #661 Shr_Nfr

"I never went to mosque.", "I never 'was' a Muslim." Whatever "was" is (sound familiar) All the rest of that. Demonstrably incorrect. He went to mosque. He was registered by his father as a Muslim at the local school. He received classes in Muslim Religion even when he attended the Catholic School there as is required. Again, he was registered as a citizen of Indonesia by his step-father. This last is a technicality perhaps, but it should get properly addressed my Mr. Obama given that it is now known. His father was a Muslim in an Islamic country. All your everything belongs to us. Repatriation may make him a "naturalized" citizen again, but that is not enough to be POTUS. The goobinator of CA is a "naturalized" citizen of the US but can't be POTUS.

One more thing: I doubt that he was ever registered by his father in any kind of school. His father left when Barack was only two, and he only saw his father one more time when he was abou 10 or 11.

Later.

666 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:34:07pm

re: #528 sattv4u2

Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

That's a quote from the original comment to which I replied.

The fact that he indeed has made only 5 comments in a year I believe is relevant - because this issue is an issue, and being skeptical is not a singular attribution - here. The waste of time - which I called him on - is that he would attempt to scoff at those who believe this is an issue. The last election cycle there were those who were skeptical of the words of Sen. Kerry, regarding his whereabouts in SE Asia, and his 'earning' certain Purple Hearts. We were told to "trust him", not the Navy Dr. who supposedly signed papers to indicate he earned them. The papers were part of his medical record he never produced.

Do we not have a similar circumstance here?

667 lurking faith  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:34:13pm

re: #656 JustMyView

Why not call the campaign and ask them to send you a copy? If you click on "Contact Us" at the bottom of their homepage, you'll get to a page that has the phone number of the Chicago campaign headquarters.


Strawman.
I'm not asking to have a copy, or see a copy.

Do you really think it would be a bad idea to require presidential candidates to provide legally admissable proof of natural-born citizenship? Seriously?

668 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:34:24pm
669 ccrnyc  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:35:20pm

re: #657 Roger

On the Update: Is Moulitsas feeling confident? Is he feeling lucky?

-------

The problem with Obama's ties with Kos is McCain is trying to do the same and starts a blog linking Kos. Great.

I think there are allot of moderates, and undecided voters that will look at the nonsense on Kos, through the McCain website. and determine that evil is what evil does.

McCain knows that Kos and their ilk are just mouth breathers and if he can expose that to the people that are still on the fence, its good for us.

- What do they say, "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"

670 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:35:57pm

Well, I'm having a look at it.

What I find curious is the white haloing around all the text, but I'm not certain whether that's just an artifact of JPEG compression. You could get an appearance like that too, if you tried to composite text from a image with a white background onto the green check-paper color background. It's hard to select anti-aliased text off a different color background and bring it into a new background without taking some of the old background color with it.

671 Roger  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:39:09pm

re: #664 JustMyView

He is eligible to be POTUS.

It is impossible to be eligible for serving for the good of the USA which he hates. He can only be eligible for POT57US

672 LTC8K6  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:40:19pm

It's stamped on the reverse.

JUN - 6 2003 or possibly 2007

Wonder why?

673 Roger  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:40:33pm

re: #669 ccrnyc

Will he link LGF and a host of other patriotic and sensible blogs?

674 LTC8K6  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:44:21pm

The date on the back must be when the official copy was made.

675 funky chicken  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:55:11pm

Heh. Love the Kos-Obama connections stuff. Get em Charles!

676 funky chicken  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 12:57:07pm

Oh, and I don't think the Birth Certificate is any kind of real problem for Obama either, and think it is actually a distraction from important stuff ... but the Kos-Obama link?

Priceless

677 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:00:41pm

re: #658 eric

I too have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Conn. 1967) and it looks nothing like this. Much more information including blood type mother's maiden name address, how many children born alive, how many children born dead
Also, there is date stamp on the back of this, did any one else see it? June 6, 2007.

eric, as you may have gleaned from our discussions there is something called a "certificate of live birth" that usually (varies from state to state) has a lot of medical information on it. This is what the hospital sends to the state. From this document, basic information is derived that is then released as a "birth certificate." It doesn't sound like your state did much redacting of personal medical information in 1967, but if you asked for another copy of it (like the one shown above for Obama) I bet it wouldn't have very much information on it now.

It's not really a material difference- what is material is the absence of certification from the state. A seal of some kind. That and the fact he released it to a blog.

678 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:04:38pm

Looks to me like the haloing is more likely due to the settings used when the document was scanned and the effects of JPEG compression. A fairly high-contrast setting was used to acquire the original image, or it's been subject to a good bit of "unsharp mask," IMO.

So far, there's nothing here that indicates to me any nefarious digital alterations. As birth certifications for illegitimate children go, this one looks legit.

679 angst  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:07:47pm

This has been a really interesting discussion, since I like genealogy. No longer will I be satisfied with a computer printout. I want a photocopy of the real thing from now on.

Also, this should be very instructive regarding how easy it is to come up with a birth certificate, considering there are so many kinds. No wonder we have such a problem with illegal aliens of all different stripes.

680 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:07:57pm

re: #672 LTC8K6

It's stamped on the reverse.

JUN - 6 2003 or possibly 2007

Wonder why?

The reversed date stamp reads "JUN - 6 2007".

681 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:13:13pm
682 dc207  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:16:51pm

Sucks that my first post was in a thread about Barack Obama. Kind of makes me feel dirty.

683 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:26:53pm
684 Dad O' Blondes  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:30:17pm

re: #680 Dar ul Harb

The reversed date stamp reads "JUN - 6 2007".

That's right -- I was just going to post that this "Certificate of Live Birth" was likely generated on June 6, 2007.

The reverse type is likely a standardized copy formating print and is dated by laser printing the reverse side of the document. You see the same thing if you ever try to xerox copy a used bank deposit slip. Often, there is type on the reverse side indicating the date and time of your transaction, as well as the available cash balance and what's on hold (for checking accounts).

Looks to me this was an original paper docuemnt which was photocopied, leaving the reverse type visible and legible because it bled through the very thin paper.

.

685 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:31:25pm

re: #131 EC Marm

Looking at the Hi-Res sample from Kos I can tell you this:
The state of Hawaii needs to talk to their printer about the grain direction of the paper they use. There is an obvious crease (look in the state seal area) running across the sheet. That's tough on the laser printer and raises questions as to authenticity.

On the contrary, that was one of the "tells" that made it look legit to me. Notice that the crease where the document was folded interacts with the printing on the crappy-looking state seal.

However, this isn't the document we're looking for, as it doesn't date to 1961, or anywhere close.

686 dc207  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:31:37pm

...nah, not here for that dude. Was just excited to see that registration was open when I was online.
Pretty much thought my first post would be in a thread about islamomaniacs, hell I could respect them (in a weird way) because at least they mean what they say. Obama, well ...

687 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:35:24pm

re: #40 maddogg

This whole thing stinks like 3 day old mahi mahi.

688 Venezuela lover  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 1:54:24pm

re: #672 LTC8K6

It's stamped on the reverse.

JUN - 6 2003 or possibly 2007

Wonder why?

I brought up the date in #605 above. Is this a previously used document or is the date stamped on the back?

689 HDrepub  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:05:29pm

I don't know about this. Every state is different I'm sure but I have a certified copy of mine in my files, and it has a lot more information than this document has. Residence of parents, how many other children of this mother, birthplace and occupation of father and mother, their age, signature of attending physician, signature of registrar, question if parents are married. Obama's document is not a vital records document in my opinion but is only the document you get from the hospital at birth. Mine also says at the bottom this copy is only valid when printed on security paper bearing the embossed seal of the Dept. of Health.

690 HDrepub  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:09:01pm

And one more thing. Did Obama only release it to the Kos but not the MSM? If so does he fear something from the MSM when they see it? This only brings about more questions.

691 desertdweller  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:47:20pm

re: #41 pat

In the few states whose certificates I've seen, there will be some signature of a certifying authority, and some mention of the address or facility where the birth occurred.

Also, no watermarks or embossing on the paper?

It's a recent printout, as well, being the "Rev" on the form is 11/01 -- presumably November, 2001.

Fishy, to say the least.

692 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:52:52pm

re: #622 galloping granny

The Form, not the OMB classifications of race, different objects.

693 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:56:07pm

re: #665 JustMyView

step-father sorry. you are correct, his parents divorced when he was 3 and his father returned to Kenya to become a drunk and crack up cars.

694 HDrepub  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:56:56pm

re: #691 desertdweller

In the few states whose certificates I've seen, there will be some signature of a certifying authority, and some mention of the address or facility where the birth occurred.

Also, no watermarks or embossing on the paper?

It's a recent printout, as well, being the "Rev" on the form is 11/01 -- presumably November, 2001.

Fishy, to say the least.

That is not the official seal of the Hawaii Dept of Health. I looked up a description of the official seal and it isn't even close to the description. Now that could have been the seal in 1961 but my question is legitimate.
&sect11-1-2 Seal of the department of health.
a) The official seal of the department of health
shall be circular in shape, two and one-fourth inches
in diameter. At the curve on the top portion there
shall be the words "DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH" and at the
curve on the bottom portion there shall be the words
"STATE OF HAWAII." At the curve on each side portion
shall be a star. In the center of the seal shall be
the Caduceus, a winged rod entwined with two serpents,
which has long been recognized as a universal symbol
of medicine. The Caduceus shall be encircled by an
indentation, which shall separate it from the words
"DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH" and "STATE OF HAWAII." For
illustrative purposes, a black and white drawing of
the official seal is attached at the end of this
section as Exhibit "A," titled "Seal of the Department
of Health," and dated November 1, 1988, and made a
part of this section.
(b) The official seal of the department of
health shall be embossed near the signature of the
director of health to verify commissions of
appointment of deputy directors and notaries public,
certificates, and other formal official documents on
which the official seal has been customarily used or
is appropriate to be used, as the director of health
may determine on a case-by-case basis.
(c) The seal of the department of health may
also be reproduced, in either an enlarged or a reduced
size, on official stationery, reports, certificates,
equipment, supplies, uniform insignia, and other
objects and items to be used or produced by the
department of health, but the reproduction and use of
the seal shall always be subject to the exclusive
control of the director of health.
[Eff 2/14/2005 ] (Auth: HRS §&sect321-9, 91-2) (Imp:

695 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 2:58:41pm

re: #688 Venezuela lover

either way, one would thus come to believe that it has been in existence since that date. one wonders...

696 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 3:05:09pm

re: #694 HDrepub

That is the seal of the State of Hawaii [Link: www.hawaiischoolreports.com...] that appears. I do not know if it is appropriate to the document or not. It very well may be so.

697 see bs  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 3:19:21pm

re: #560 MadJadBad

I'd rather hear BHO explain how increasing taxes on oil companies will lower the price of gasoline.

Typicla liberal thinking, if it makes money "we" must have it

698 HDrepub  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 3:37:34pm

re: #696 Shr_Nfr

That is the seal of the State of Hawaii [Link: www.hawaiischoolreports.com...] that appears. I do not know if it is appropriate to the document or not. It very well may be so.

Yes I know it is the seal of Hawaii, but it is not the seal of the Dept. of Health. That's what I tried to point out.

699 EC Marm  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 3:47:52pm

re: #685 Dar ul Harb

On the contrary, that was one of the "tells" that made it look legit to me. Notice that the crease where the document was folded interacts with the printing on the crappy-looking state seal.


Hey Dar, I respect your opinion. I thought of that. A document 8 1/2 X 11 is traditionally tri-folded for a standard business size envelope. The first fold would at 3 2/3" from the top. If that is a fold it is certainly much too high.
I have run a number of documents through a laser printer cross grain, and the crease tends to have a deviation from a straight line of about 1/4" or more. This is a little less. So it's a tough call. The weight of the check paper, 24#, would tend to make a crease a little straighter and less obvious. I've never seen the toner get knocked off a folded sheet of paper of that weight. Take a look at the border on the right side were the crease/fold occurs.

However, this isn't the document we're looking for, as it doesn't date to 1961, or anywhere close.


You're right. This is smoke. We are supposed to grasp this, jump to conclusions, look like fools, so the Obamites can point their fingers and refuse to release the real thing.
I'm just concerned that it is really foolish for the Obama camp to think that some group (in the event of his victory) won't take this to the SCOTUS and force him to reveal the true documents. Maybe it's a risk he's willing to take. If he's got nothing to hide, he should show the original to someone that both sides can trust. Hardly MarKos.

700 Asylum Aleikum  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 6:08:01pm

Why does Obama refuse to release a copy of his birth certificate?
It may be that Obama does not have the original, or the birth certificate contains information that contradicts Obama's claims.
Regardless, the public has a right to examine the birth certificate of anyone who is running for President.

701 MJBrutus  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 6:41:45pm

OK, I guess my theory that Obama was actually the love child of Nancy Pelosi and some anonymous sperm donor from Sunnyside Kennels is dead. But hey can you blame me for thinking so? Sure, tell me you weren't thinking it too.

702 ballamer  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 6:57:33pm

My understanding is that each Hawaiian island is a county. Thus the County into which Obama was born would be Oahu, not Honolulu. Looks like a forgery to me.

703 Charles  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 7:46:25pm

It's not a forgery.

704 shiplord kirel  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 7:56:21pm

As libshills like Alan "Strawman" Colmes, why should we continue to pillory Kos for remarks made more than 4 years ago? (Colmes also asks this about Teddy the Hutt and Chappaquiddick).

This is why:

Grieving Mothers Bond To Learn How Their Sons Died In Fallujah

The media exposure was a mixed blessing. Donna (Zovko) wanted the world to know what had happened to Jerry but wept when bloggers called her son a mercenary; it gnawed at her, even after Katy told her to ignore the noise.

Mercenary. Donna only heard the word after Jerry was killed.

She scoured dictionaries, looking for meanings. There were so many, each worse than the last: Hired gun; motivated by a desire for money; venal; greedy.

None of them described her son, the young soldier deployed to Bosnia in 1995, who'd asked her to send him seeds so he could help replant crops destroyed by endless war. That word didn't describe the man who told his family that a free Iraq was worth fighting for.

"My son died so Iraqis could vote," Donna would say, but in her heart, she really didn't know why Jerry had joined Prince's private army. Jerry hadn't needed Blackwater's money — the Zovkos would have given him anything.

Screw you, Markos.

705 shiplord kirel  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 7:57:39pm

Eek!

"As libshills like Alan "Strawman" Colmes MIGHT ASK"

706 yesandno  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:06:34pm

I haven't been through all the posts...but why isn't there a "seal" on the document. When released by the state gov't, don't birth certificates or extracts usually contain a seal of the the state as to the authenticity of the document to indicate it is real? Like a notary seal?

I do a lot of genealogy and every birth certificate I have obtained has some official seal on it. Just a question.

707 desertdweller  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:34:17pm

re: #706 yesandno

That was my point, as well. Where's the signature?

And as Charles pointed out, this would have been printed not at Obama's birth, but some time thereafter. I was pointing out the form used was revised in November, 2001, and others noted the stamp bleeding through from the back with a date in June 2007.

So from that perspective, it seems legit.

Usually, though, governments take more steps to prevent forgery of these documents. This one seems pretty easy to scam, given the lack of fairly common anti-forgery tricks, especially for a document designed two months after 9/11.

708 bungie  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:50:15pm

This is my very first post ever!
I also haven't been through all the posts, but. . .

I have my pre-1960 birth certificate from NY. Since my old copy of my birth certificate was not certified, I recently wrote NY for a certified copy. They sent me a Certificate of Live Birth nearly identical to Obama's posted on Kos. I think that is what this is; not a forgery; just a present day replacement without all the detail.

My point is that I have my new one and my old, original one and I've compared them. There is alot of information on the old one that was not put on the Certificate of Live Birth. The missing information is race for my parents and myself; mother and father's birthplace; mother and father's occupation; previous children; mother's length of stay in New York City prior to birth of child. (i've seen an old Ohio one that has results of syphilitic test).

The original may be lost. . .or maybe there is something on the original they don't want out? Since Obama's father's history can't get much more controversial, maybe its the details about his mother. (e.g.,maybe she was not born in Kansas, maybe she was adopted, maybe she is not white,maybe she is biracial, etc.) She was an only child of older parents and she didn't seem very bonded to them somehow. . . .

709 US Navy Wife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:52:07pm

I didn't read through all of the comments, so my apologies if this has already been covered.

My son was born in Hawaii, 1992. The original birth certificate is handwritten and contains many more details than is on his copy. The birth certificate that we used to obtain his passport, and show to school to get him enrolled looks exactly like the one provided for BO. In fact, we even have a date stamped, upside down, on the back. (It's the date the copy was printed by request.)

710 US Navy Wife  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 9:55:42pm

re: #702 ballamer

My understanding is that each Hawaiian island is a county. Thus the County into which Obama was born would be Oahu, not Honolulu. Looks like a forgery to me.

Oahu is the island. The county is Honolulu. In fact (bit of trivia) nearly the entire island is also the city of Honolulu. There are "satellite city halls" all over the place, because traveling to Honolulu proper would be too inconvenient. One of the great things Mayor Frank Fasi did.

711 Eloah  Thu, Jun 12, 2008 11:48:07pm

Evening all. I live in Hawaii, both of my sons were born here and I hate to be anti-climatic, but that is what a State of Hawaii BC looks like. You get some cheesy non-official deal from the hospital (mine were born in Kapiolani) but you get the ugly green one from the State. Wedding certs look just like it. Sucks to be from here from a political point of view. Most voters here base their vote on where someone went to High School...and sorry about our whole congressional delegation as well. I am thankful for Kucinich because he steals the crazy thunder from Neil and Mazie.

I posted this under a different thread...first post jitters.

712 bungie  Fri, Jun 13, 2008 2:30:52pm

re: #711 Eloah

Evening all. I live in Hawaii, both of my sons were born here and I hate to be anti-climatic, but that is what a State of Hawaii BC looks like. You get some cheesy non-official deal from the hospital (mine were born in Kapiolani) but you get the ugly green one from the State. . . .

These birth certificates have changed over the years. Sounds like the birth of your sons were fairly recent. Things have changed since 1961 and every state's birth certificates have changed. I'm looking at several from different times (1912,1948, 1988 and 21st century duplicates). What KOS published looks like a standard 21st century duplicate certificate, not what his original or the certified copies issued from the original back in 1961 would have looked like. It is common to get several certified copies when you first get the birth certificate. The 1960 birth certificates issued at the time of birth in the 60's have more information. Bet on it. "Race" of each mother, father, and child for one. Place of mother and father's birth for another.

713 Eloah  Fri, Jun 13, 2008 7:06:18pm

re: #712 bungie

re: #711 Eloah

Evening all. I live in Hawaii, both of my sons were born here and I hate to be anti-climatic, but that is what a State of Hawaii BC looks like. You get some cheesy non-official deal from the hospital (mine were born in Kapiolani) but you get the ugly green one from the State. . . .

These birth certificates have changed over the years. Sounds like the birth of your sons were fairly recent. Things have changed since 1961 and every state's birth certificates have changed. I'm looking at several from different times (1912,1948, 1988 and 21st century duplicates). What KOS published looks like a standard 21st century duplicate certificate, not what his original or the certified copies issued from the original back in 1961 would have looked like. It is common to get several certified copies when you first get the birth certificate. The 1960 birth certificates issued at the time of birth in the 60's have more information. Bet on it. "Race" of each mother, father, and child for one. Place of mother and father's birth for another.

You are right, mine were born in 05 and 07. Good point.


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