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Daily Kos Posts Obama 'Birth Certificate'

Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:56:41 am PDT

Markos “Screw Them” Moulitsas has posted what he says is Barack Obama’s birth certificate, with no explanation of how he obtained it: Daily Kos: Obama’s birth certificate.

It looks genuine. But Moulitsas is definitely not a trustworthy source. I need details on how he got this image before I’ll completely believe it. The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives. Is the Obama campaign now leaking things to Daily Kos, or did Moulitsas misrepresent himself to the state of Hawaii to get it?

(Hat tip: Hot Air.)

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:12:09 am:

This is NOT a birth certificate, it’s a “certification of live birth” — a slightly different thing.

And yes, the campaign did give it to Moulitsas for posting; he says so in the comments.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:21:56 am:

LGF reader Jinxmedic has some more information:

A “certificate of live birth” is a government extract of the original birth certificate filed with the state or commonwealth. The certificate shown on Kos’ page is what you would get if you applied for a duplicate of an existing birth certificate, in the event that you needed it for employment or identification, or whatever. It is NOT a copy of the original document, simply the extracted information printed onto a proprietary paper at the time of the request. So, yes, a certificate of live birth from 1961 can be authentic, printed via Microsoft Word with a laser printer.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: Daily Kos: Eulogy before the Inevitability of Self-Destruction: The Decline and Death of Israel.

Israel embody the vessel of boiling blood of horror and perfidy in demonic vileness for its pattern of terrorism and murder in the name of Zionist ideology. It has earned the arsenal of nuclear warheads through stolen intelligence in betrayal, estimated to number between 200 to over 500, through a covert development at Dimona underground nuclear reactor built in the late 50’s, to which President Kennedy, as an anti-nuclear weapon peacenik who signed Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, objected and had considerable tense relationship with the then-Third Prime Minister David Ben Gurion before his abrupt resignation for “personal reasons” on June 21, 1963. After the murder of JFK, Israel has extended its Zionistic tentacle to grasp the United States by the neck to leech on to that manifest the radical foreign policy about-face to morally and materially support State of Israel in no uncertain (and unconditional) terms.

With Israel as a formidably superior power to Arabic and Central Asian states - and impress the world at large - because of its proven military prowess (excepting rare cases of conceding defeat such as 2006 Israel-Lebanon War) backed by the intimidating Schwarzeneggerian military strength of Uncle Sam as its puppet like Master Blaster from the film Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome that hold power truce with the present world civilization, Israel has determined the fate of the world at large with its superb conniving faculty veiled in the art of influence and might.

With the secret nuclear warhead arsenals scattered in secure storages and seated in the racks of the bomber planes and on the head of the missiles awaiting idle somewhere in the conquered land, Israel’s conceited sense of its right to rule the world as the “chosen” children, in part or whole, cannot be had without the hijacking of the financial and military sectors of Imperial West to facilitate the culture of a misanthrophically destructive program in subduing the Middle East region for its consumption in drinking the wine of despotic power to expand by the proxies of war.

Drunken by its belief of entitlement and arrogance - as well as inability to streamline the management of the Israeli economy for great liberalization of the sluggish economy beset by bureaucratic incompetence and vanity because it feeds on the carcass of the financial corpses of the United States and Germany in reparations perpetuated in the name of the victims of the Nazi Holocaust (which enlightened the Zionists to convene the fulfillment of Theodor Herzl’s penile fantasy for the permanent home of the scattered tribe of brutish and incorrigible Ashkenazi Khazar descendants to assimilate the customs, culture and genetics of the ancient Israelites) - Israel now believes it has the power to exercise control of the region by subversive means even if the result will be counterproductive that may end in disastrous blowback not only for Israel but also precipitate the accelerated fall of the United States in economic and moral collapse in mismanagement of the host nation’s priorities.

When Israel loses in the great hypothetical battle of Megiddo in the unforeseeable future, it shall deploy the spread wings of nuclear warheads to destroy adversaries and allies in the obliteration of innumerable millions of human beings, animals and organic life, inferring its conceived truth of absolute moral relativism as having possessed annihilative power in taking the world down with Israel in the orgiastically ethnocentric finale of existentially triumphant self-destruction as the ultimately defeated enemy of the civilized world.

This is the bidding of a farewell formed in the extension of a middle finger by the militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect that - resolved they be - believe in - by genetic predisposition and/or indoctrination from birth - supremacism of the Master Race, because they have accomplished the goal of procreating State of Israel to dominate in hegemony by the art of seduction, after centuries of persecution and expulsion on charge of treason by subversion of host nations, blood rituals in human sacrifice of Gentile children, corruption and ravishing of women, conspiracy to injure and murder esteemed officers & rulers and usurious & fraudulent deed in union with the spiritual descendants of the wicked Jews of the extinct Sadducee sect, the persecutor and abetted executioner of Jesus Christ, propagating fruition of the species as the “Chosen One” and bringing the world to its knees without mercy for subservience and obedience by slavery (brainwash) and tyranny.

And the owner of the site, Markos Moulitsas, is himself notorious for this disgusting remark about the Americans who were burned alive, torn apart, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah near the start of the Iraq War: Daily Kos :: Comments Corpses on the Cover.

Every death should be on the front page (2.70 / 40)

Let the people see what war is like. This isn’t an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush’s folly.

That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

by kos on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 12:08:56 PM PDT

Nice company the Obama campaign is keeping.

UPDATE at 6/12/08 11:15:24 am:

And another interesting note; for years, Daily Kos had a redirection in place on the site, to prevent people from linking directly to Moulitsas’ ugly comment. Details here: Kos: Proud of ‘Screw Them’.

That redirect has been removed, and links to Moulitsas’ comment now work.

713 comments

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1 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 9:57:43 am reply quote

Time to authenticate boys and girls.

old school LGF style.

2 loppyd  6/12/08 9:57:45 am reply quote

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.

3 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 9:57:58 am reply quote

Go go throbbing birth certificate!

/disturbing Inspector Gadget

4 The Other Les  6/12/08 9:58:20 am reply quote

It doesn't look like it was done on Word for Windows?

5 lawhawk  6/12/08 9:58:24 am reply quote

Stranger things have happened. Or Kos himself got punked.

6 loppyd  6/12/08 9:58:30 am reply quote

Mine (Boston, MA) looks nothing like that.

Not that all states would look the same.

7 MandyManners  6/12/08 9:58:56 am reply quote

Are there any astrologists here?

8 loppyd  6/12/08 9:58:56 am reply quote

and it's only official if it has a raised seal....

9 Charles  6/12/08 9:59:08 am reply quote

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

10 gibsonz  6/12/08 9:59:19 am reply quote

Markos “Screw Them” Moulitsas fabricate or post something untrue...certainly not!
///////////////////////////

11 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 9:59:33 am reply quote
The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives. Is the Obama campaign now leaking things to Daily Kos?

If this is authentic, I question why the Obama campaign would not go widespread public on it (as it was a point of controversy), and if it has nothing contriversial about it why they would have not handed it over originally.

12 MandyManners  6/12/08 9:59:51 am reply quote
13 zmdavid  6/12/08 9:59:51 am reply quote
The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives.


Maybe Obama's related to Kos.

14 DoubleU  6/12/08 10:00:06 am reply quote

From Hot Air

Update: Not that it matters for purposes of addressing Geraghty’s concerns, but Flip notes that the posted document is a certification of birth, which is slightly different from a birth certificate.
15 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:00:14 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

From BHO himself?

16 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:00:15 am reply quote

That's a photoshop job if I recognize one. Anyone up for crimesolving?

17 Noam Sayin'  6/12/08 10:00:18 am reply quote

I'm skeptical. Looks too simple.

18 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:00:24 am reply quote

Markos: The Farce is strong with this one....

19 Ringo the Gringo  6/12/08 10:00:44 am reply quote

Where's the little foot prints?

20 loppyd  6/12/08 10:01:06 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only release birth certificates to relatives:

and you can't request if using the FOIA:

(from the Hawaii Uniform Information Practices Act)



What is a significant privacy interest? (§ 92F-14)

The UIPA lists some specific examples of the types of information in which an individual has a significant privacy interest. The list includes information about an individual’s:

(1) Medical history, condition, and treatment;
(2) Criminal law investigation, except where disclosure is necessary to prosecute or continue the investigation;
(3) Eligibility for social services or welfare benefits;
(4) Public employment personnel file type information, except information required to be disclosed under § 92F-12(a)(14) and employee misconduct information if employee is suspended or discharged; or for county police officers if discharged;
(5) Nongovernmental employment history except where information qualifies a government employee for his or her position;
(6) Financial information;

(7) Professional and vocational licensee
qualifications except:
(a) certain discipline information;
(b) current employment information and
required insurance coverage of licensee;
and
(c) complaints and dispositions;
(8) Personal recommendations or evaluations; and
(9) Social security numbers.

OIP has further recognized that an individual has a significant privacy interest in his or her home contact information, date of birth, and ethnicity.

21 bulwrk  6/12/08 10:01:16 am reply quote

re: #2 loppyd

no hospital, no attending physician, no address of parents, no occupation of parents etc. thats pretty standard on all birth certificates.

22 thedopefishlives  6/12/08 10:01:52 am reply quote

Would it surprise you if Obama _did_ leak to Kos? I mean, their ideology is remarkably similar.

23 snowcrash  6/12/08 10:02:03 am reply quote

Where is the hospital or home location of birth?

24 goddessoftheclassroom  6/12/08 10:02:24 am reply quote

I have a certified copy of my birth certificate (Baltimore, 1964). It's a photocopy with a stamp. Since it's a photocopy, the text is TYPEWRITTEN.

This seems to be info typed on a computer.

25 kynna  6/12/08 10:02:30 am reply quote

If it's for real, the relationship with Kos is more damaging than any speculation that could happen.

Just more evidence that Obama can't run an administration and has no business running this country.

26 Killgore Trout  6/12/08 10:02:34 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

I would guess it was leaked from the Obama campaign. I don't think Kos would publish it without their permission.

27 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:02:34 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

28 Old_Maid  6/12/08 10:02:46 am reply quote

Just logging on real quick...I was born in Honolulu in 1969 and my birth certificate looks nothing like that! Mine is differently shaped, and has a LOT more information on it. It's not square, it's oblong.

29 Golem Akbar  6/12/08 10:02:49 am reply quote

If it's authentic, then that proves Obama could not be the Messiah. You know, no immaculate conception, no messiah.
(oh okay ////)

30 blutonazi98  6/12/08 10:02:49 am reply quote

did Kos get it from Dan Rather?

31 Just Another Four-letter Word  6/12/08 10:02:52 am reply quote

I'm sure there are many moonbats/LLLs in Hawaii working in the Gubmint that wouldn't have any qualms about leaking something like this to Markos or whomever.

Just sayin'

JAFLW

32 Ben Hur  6/12/08 10:03:07 am reply quote

So his name isn't Barry?

33 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:03:15 am reply quote

re: #17 Noam Sayin'

I'm skeptical. Looks too simple.

Yeah, I agree. My birth certificate looks like it's been run through the guano machine due to age and fading, and Barry's 9 years older than me....

I call BS.

34 Ringo the Gringo  6/12/08 10:03:22 am reply quote

re: #2 loppyd

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.


Charles?

35 Ben Hur  6/12/08 10:03:22 am reply quote

bbl

36 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:03:59 am reply quote

Scanned at 60dpi?

37 loppyd  6/12/08 10:04:22 am reply quote

What should appear on a Hawaii birth certificate:

ANOTHER UPDATE: Craig, a Campaign Spot reader born in Hawaii in 1962, offers the type of information on his birth certificate:

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' contains nothing that could be considered controversial. Some sample entries:

#3. This Birth (box to check) Single, Twin, Triplet

#9. Race of Father

#10. Age of Father

#11. Birthplace (of father)

#12a Usual Occupation

#12b. Kind of Business or Industry

#14. Race of Mother

#17a. Type of Occupation Outside Home During Pregnancy

#17b. Date Last Worked

#18a. Signature of Parent or Other Informant (with check box to signify which has signed)

38 Ben Hur  6/12/08 10:04:34 am reply quote

But first...THIS OT:

Report: Terror Suspects Plotted to Set Up Islamic State in Scotland

No. Really. The Pali - ISraeli conflict is all about land.

39 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 10:04:36 am reply quote

re: #21 bulwrk

no hospital, no attending physician, no address of parents, no occupation of parents etc. thats pretty standard on all birth certificates.

Does anyone have an example of a Hawaiian birth certificate? Here's an interesting one...

40 maddogg  6/12/08 10:04:51 am reply quote

This whole thing stinks like 3 day old fish.

41 pat  6/12/08 10:04:53 am reply quote

Let me make an observation about the Hawaiian BCs I have at hand.
They are laid out in a grid of boxes on a half sheet. They do not have the State seal on them, rather a simple reference to the Department of Health, Reasearch and Statistics Office. The exact hospital and its address is typed in as well as the delivering doctor who must sign. Exact time of day of birth is indicated, as well as varoius Health Department things , like exact moment BC was registered. Age and home address of each parent is requested.Also whether baby was born within city limita. All middle names required.Parent must sign

42 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:04:55 am reply quote

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

I think it was faxed.

Like certain documents from a Texas Kinkos a couple of years ago ...

43 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:04:56 am reply quote

Legal search engine: HRS 338-13(b), 338-19.

44 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:05:14 am reply quote

Now, that said, we may be able to backdoor FOIA the same information from the State of Illinois. He would have needed it to run for public office.

Illinois FOIA page
Illinois FOIA Guide and Act

I could find nothing in there that would prevent looking for a copy of his birth record that would've been used to authenticate his citizenship. Maybe there is something, maybe not.

45 Ben Hur  6/12/08 10:05:24 am reply quote

I guess this dispells all those Immaculate Conception internet rumors....

BBL.

46 Thanos  6/12/08 10:05:25 am reply quote

Would a 1961 Birth Certificate in 1961 list race as "African" ?

47 dmh0667  6/12/08 10:05:33 am reply quote

Daily KOS:

And Behold, I, Markos of Screw'em, bring ye proof that in the year of their lord 1961, in the city of Honolulu, a Child was born....

48 Spiritualized  6/12/08 10:05:49 am reply quote

Seriously, how stupid does Kos think we are?

the posted document is a certification of birth, which is slightly different from a birth certificate.

Then we still need the real thing don't we! And if indeed the original is as innocuous as this 'certification of birth', then it would've been released officially by Obama's team.

49 lawhawk  6/12/08 10:06:07 am reply quote

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

Don't know, but that could explain when the document was printed. It's on a form revision 11/01. So we know this clearly isn't his original birth certificate. Doesn't mean that it's bogus.

It would help to learn the provenance as to how they came to obtain it. More to the point, why leak to Kos when it would have been far easier and more believable to send it to the news agencies and media outlets. Seems strange that the campaign would go the route of a truly partisan blogger instead of an established outlet.

Heck, they could have posted the thing to the Obama website. Instead, we get this.

Curious. Very curious.

50 Noam Sayin'  6/12/08 10:06:19 am reply quote

re: #33 Power Armored Lizardoid

Yeah, I agree. My birth certificate looks like it's been run through the guano machine due to age and fading, and Barry's 9 years older than me....

I call BS.

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

51 BigDog  6/12/08 10:06:22 am reply quote

In my state the birth certs are a photocopy of the original, obviously that one isn't, don't know how they do it in HI. You will notice that it is on a form dated 11/01, some 40yrs after the event (lower left corner) and printed on a laser printer. Could be the way they do it there, but I would like to see a copy from a little closer to the actual birth date.

52 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:06:23 am reply quote

re: #43 MandyManners

Legal search engine: HRS 338-13(b), 338-19.

I can't find anything.

53 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:06:24 am reply quote

He probably did get it from the campaign. In today's TIME article it says the campaign plans to post a .pdf of Obama's birth certificate on the FightTheSmears site

54 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 10:06:25 am reply quote

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

I saw that date too.... It looks like a recent copy missing a lot of info. I found something that looks much different....

55 karmic_inquisitor  6/12/08 10:06:32 am reply quote

Uhhhhh..

Am I missing somthing?

My Birth Certificate from 1965 was typed. The County of San Mateo couldn't afford laser printers at the time. When I have had to provide a birth certificate and get a copy from the county, they get me a copy off of what I assume is microfiche.

56 gibsonz  6/12/08 10:06:34 am reply quote

My Virginia birth certificate is filled in by hand and looks fake but has alot of information on it that I don`t see on this one...hospital...physician...seal...etc.

57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  6/12/08 10:06:37 am reply quote

Why redact the certificate number, the one thing which could be used to establish it was a certified true copy?

58 Charles  6/12/08 10:06:49 am reply quote

re: #34 Ringo the Gringo

Charles?

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

59 jpfletcher  6/12/08 10:07:20 am reply quote

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

60 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:07:22 am reply quote

re: #49 lawhawk

Do you have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

61 dawnfire82  6/12/08 10:07:26 am reply quote

HotAir comments reference some... oddities. Like listing 'African' as a race, and omitting the Hospital. There seems to be some confusion as to the accuracy of his birthday, as well.

Not to mention that it looks like floating text put on top of a background. I've never seen any kind of state document printed on a high resolution laser printer before.

I'm inclined to believe it's BS.

62 Ringo the Gringo  6/12/08 10:07:33 am reply quote

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

Oh. I thought you were.

My mistake.

63 pissed  6/12/08 10:07:49 am reply quote

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

64 loppyd  6/12/08 10:07:59 am reply quote

re: #51 BigDog

In my state the birth certs are a photocopy of the original, obviously that one isn't, don't know how they do it in HI. You will notice that it is on a form dated 11/01, some 40yrs after the event (lower left corner) and printed on a laser printer. Could be the way they do it there, but I would like to see a copy from a little closer to the actual birth date.

it's not the original. can't be.

I wasn't born until 1970 and mine is typed.

65 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:07:59 am reply quote

"Aloha, my name is Markos Moulitsas Hussein Kos Obama, and I need to get a copy of..."

66 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:08:06 am reply quote

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

What?

67 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:08:10 am reply quote

Were they using that font in 1961? (They weren't using computers were they? So would it have come from a Typewriter?)

This looks like a presently printed document possibly using information from the original. This cannot be the original IMHO.

68 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:08:16 am reply quote

re: #28 Old_Maid

Just logging on real quick...I was born in Honolulu in 1969 and my birth certificate looks nothing like that! Mine is differently shaped, and has a LOT more information on it. It's not square, it's oblong.

What sort of information appears on it? I take it, it would have city, county, and island, but does it also have the doctor, hospital, etc?

And, would it be possible to run a check of this by comparing it to a newer printout of a Hawai'i birth certificate?

69 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:08:27 am reply quote

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

Darn it!

70 loppyd  6/12/08 10:08:30 am reply quote

re: #63 pissed

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

looks a little different to me.....

71 Seaberry  6/12/08 10:08:31 am reply quote

Barack Hussein Obama ll. He's elite...no "Jr" for him. ;-)

72 fsjonesy  6/12/08 10:08:38 am reply quote

I call BS.

I was born in 1990 and my birth certificate was printed with a typewriter.
This just looks too new.
Also, there's no birthweight, no attending physician listed, and no hospital.

73 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 10:09:00 am reply quote

re: #55 karmic_inquisitor

Uhhhhh..

Am I missing somthing?

My Birth Certificate from 1965 was typed. The County of San Mateo couldn't afford laser printers at the time. When I have had to provide a birth certificate and get a copy from the county, they get me a copy off of what I assume is microfiche.

I was born at Sequoia Hospital in 1965, and yes mine is typed, and my copies are off microfiche... Hawaii could laser print in 1959 and that Rather letter was possible too.

74 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:09:01 am reply quote

re: #63 pissed

I found this wedsite and halfway down is a photocopy of a Hawaiin B.C.


[Link: amherstkenpo.com...]

What year, though?

75 pat  6/12/08 10:09:04 am reply quote

re: #58 Charles

I wasn't born in Hawaii.

But I was and I have a few of these right next to me

76 karmic_inquisitor  6/12/08 10:09:17 am reply quote

re: #70 loppyd

looks a little different to me.....

They look identical to me.

/Dan Rather off

77 loppyd  6/12/08 10:09:20 am reply quote

Mine also lists the attending physician and the hospital where I was born.

78 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:09:27 am reply quote

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

That could be just the copy on the web site.

79 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:09:27 am reply quote

I born in Illinois before Barack and my birth certificate doesn't anything to being that neat.

80 jpfletcher  6/12/08 10:09:31 am reply quote

re: #66 MandyManners

What?

I downloaded a copy of the birth cert. from Kos and right clicked on the file and viewed it's properties.

81 Cap'n DOC  6/12/08 10:09:40 am reply quote

re: #19 Ringo the Gringo

They'll be throbbing in invisible ink.

82 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:09:40 am reply quote

HRS 338-18 is "Disclosure of records"
HRS 338-19 is "Photostatic or typewritten copies of records"

But no b
[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

83 loppyd  6/12/08 10:09:41 am reply quote

re: #76 karmic_inquisitor

They look identical to me.

/Dan Rather off

fake but accurate

/couldn't resist

84 krypto  6/12/08 10:09:54 am reply quote

There's a faint date stamp of June 6, 2007 showing through, reversed of course, from the back of the alleged certificate. That would mean it was issued a year ago, if real.

85 Ringo the Gringo  6/12/08 10:10:06 am reply quote

re: #72 fsjonesy


I was born in 1990 and my birth certificate was printed with a typewriter.
This just looks too new.

Shouldn't you be at school right now?

86 jpfletcher  6/12/08 10:10:12 am reply quote

re: #78 itellu3times

It could, I'm just saying.

88 loppyd  6/12/08 10:10:28 am reply quote

re: #60 MandyManners

Do you have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

I have westlaw

89 Old_Maid  6/12/08 10:10:44 am reply quote

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

90 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:10:45 am reply quote

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

Nah, the more I look at the whole 'document' the more fake it looks. I don't have much experience with Photoshop, and I only own an old version 7 copy, but I believe I could come up with something more believable than this in 2 or 3 hours....

91 ruexperienced  6/12/08 10:10:49 am reply quote

It IS just a certification, not the actual birth certificate.

With that said, it still looks like a blatant fake.

Considering the source, my money's on Moulitsas pulling a fast one...

The libtards will do ANYTHING to win in November !

92 Charles  6/12/08 10:10:56 am reply quote

re: #59 jpfletcher

I took a screeshot of the properties for the birth certificate and it says that it was created in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh.

[Link: jpfletcher.blogspot.com...]

The document was probably scanned into Photoshop.

93 goddessoftheclassroom  6/12/08 10:10:58 am reply quote

re: #71 Seaberry

Barack Hussein Obama ll. He's elite...no "Jr" for him. ;-)

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

94 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:11:02 am reply quote

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

95 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:11:02 am reply quote

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

96 Resize  6/12/08 10:11:18 am reply quote

Fakeroony.....Everyone knows that O!bama came from the Gods cabbage patch...

97 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:11:29 am reply quote

The background green pattern does not appear behind any of the letters that I can see, which would make this a low-quality photoshop forgery.

Also, anything original from 1961 would not have the word "laser" on it, the text would have been typed and much more uneven.

But even if this were a legal laser printer reprint, I'd expect to see the green pattern make it through even the very crude scanning this seems to have gone through.

98 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:11:30 am reply quote

There appears to be a date stamped on the back of the KOS copy. It says: June 7, 2007
You need to zoom in to see it.

99 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:11:31 am reply quote

re: #80 jpfletcher

I downloaded a copy of the birth cert. from Kos and right clicked on the file and viewed it's properties.

What does it mean, though?

100 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:11:33 am reply quote

re: #67 WrathofG-d

I learned to type on a ROYAL manual typewriter. Those were fun.

101 loppyd  6/12/08 10:11:40 am reply quote

re: #94 Ward Cleaver

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

Me too!

Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuwwwwwwww.

:D

Hi Ward!

102 pat  6/12/08 10:11:55 am reply quote

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Exactly. See my #41

103 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:12:04 am reply quote

re: #74 MandyManners

What year, though?

The birthdate on that one is 1919.

104 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:12:15 am reply quote

re: #93 goddessoftheclassroom

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

The mother can put the father's name on the birth certificate. It has nothing to do with marriage.

105 Sizzlack  6/12/08 10:12:29 am reply quote

You know Obama is going to have some problems this fall when there are already middle of the road Democrats who wont endorse him...

106 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 10:12:41 am reply quote

re: #76 karmic_inquisitor

Did you grow up on the penninsula? I grew up in Portola Valley and Palo Alto.... You still around there?

107 goddessoftheclassroom  6/12/08 10:12:46 am reply quote

re: #104 MandyManners

The mother can put the father's name on the birth certificate. It has nothing to do with marriage.

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks.

108 Noam Sayin'  6/12/08 10:12:47 am reply quote

re: #95 MandyManners

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

I think that may have rubbed off from another document, or came from th back side of this one, as it was folded.

109 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:12:48 am reply quote

re: #98 unrealizedviewpoint

There appears to be a date stamped on the back of the KOS copy. It says: June 7, 2007
You need to zoom in to see it.

I see it as June 6.

110 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:12:50 am reply quote

re: #77 loppyd

Mine also lists the attending physician and the hospital where I was born.

Ditto for mine, and it lists my parents' social security numbers. Mine from 1977, Michigan is typed, and the date that it was received at the city is stamped on it. If I go back to get it, I will get a photocopy of the original kept on file by the state.

111 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:13:12 am reply quote

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

The birthdate on that one is 1919.

I imagine the format changed.

112 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:13:15 am reply quote

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

113 Killgore Trout  6/12/08 10:13:21 am reply quote

re: #89 Old_Maid


Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.


This isn't the original, it appears to be a reissue from last week.

114 snowtravel  6/12/08 10:13:22 am reply quote

Certification of live birth=birth certificate.

115 JustAHouseWife  6/12/08 10:13:31 am reply quote

My husband was born on Oahu in 1962. I'll have to ask him when he comes home from work if this looks the same as his birth certificate. Like someone else says, the document should have the parents names on it I would think. Finding out the hospital name and town would be of use. Not everyone on Oahu lives in the city of Honolulu; my husbands parents lived on the North Shore; and he was born in a hospital near the army base in the central part of the island.

116 nyc redneck  6/12/08 10:13:42 am reply quote

it looks so crisp and clean. like something you'd get at a bank or from an insurance company.

117 loppyd  6/12/08 10:13:55 am reply quote

re: #110 Honorary Yooper

Ditto for mine, and it lists my parents' social security numbers. Mine from 1977, Michigan is typed, and the date that it was received at the city is stamped on it. If I go back to get it, I will get a photocopy of the original kept on file by the state.

I recently had to get mine and it was a photocopy - but it had a raised seal on it. No seal on this one.

118 NJDhockeyfan  6/12/08 10:14:10 am reply quote

From the State of Hawaii website:

Tracing Your Genealogy

The general rule of thumb in determining 50 percent blood quantum is to submit enough documentation tracing your genealogy to your full Hawaiian ancestor(s). Some applicants need only go back one or two generations - that is, to their grandparents.

Others may need to go back further, gathering pieces of information which eventually grow into a large family tree with roots beginning with full Hawaiian ancestors.

However, before starting your search for acceptable documents, kuka, or consult with your ohana. They are an invaluable source of information. Once you've "talked story" you should be better prepared to begin gathering the documentation needed to show eligibility for the program.

There are two categories of documents used in determining eligibility: primary and secondary.

Primary Documents

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:

* A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
* A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
* A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

You will need the certified birth certificates for:

* Yourself
* Your biological father; and
* Your biological mother

The state Department of Health, (DOH), Vital Records Section, records documents by island and district (geographically) and by the date of the event (chronologically).

If your biological parents' documents don't clearly prove that you have at least 50 percent Hawaiian ancestry, you will also need certified birth certificates for:

* Your biological father's parents; and
* Your biological mother's parents.

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

Please note that DOH no longer offers same day service. If you plan on picking up your certified DOH document(s), you should allow at least 10 working days for DOH to process your request(s), OR four to six weeks if you want your certified certificate(s) mailed to you.

In the event the Vital Records Section does not have a birth certificate for any of your parents or grandparents, they will issue a "No-record" certification. "No-record" certification means after searching its records, the DOH cannot find the requested birth certificates. Please submit this "No-record" certification with your other documents to DHHL.

If you are adopted, your biological birth record is probably sealed. In this instance, DHHL staff may be able to assist you in getting the ethnicity of your biological parents. Additionally, depending on your particular circumstance the Family Court may be able to help you get the information you need. If your adoption occurred in the State of Hawaii, you may be able to get a copy of your original birth certificate. Access to out of state adoption records, however, vary according to the respective jurisdiction.

119 kywrite  6/12/08 10:14:11 am reply quote

re: #2 loppyd

we need another Hawaii birth certificate to compare it to.

I have a friend who was born around that time here in HI -- when she wakes up, I'll see if she has hers laying around. The font looks mighty pretty to me. Y'all see the date stamp down toward the mid-bottom -- in anything less than full mag, it just looks like a smudge? Says June 07. That could be part of authentication. I don't see any other official looking stamping on it tho.

120 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:14:16 am reply quote

re: #39 coquimbojoe

Does anyone have an example of a Hawaiian birth certificate? Here's an interesting one...

That one is dated 1967, so it might be what Obama's should look like.

121 loppyd  6/12/08 10:14:31 am reply quote

This is like John Effin Kerry "releasing" his military records to the Boston Globe.

WHAT. EV. AH.

122 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:14:59 am reply quote

re: #94 Ward Cleaver

If you blow it up to full size, the state seal looks like crap.

I smell a rat.

As do I.

I call bullshit, Markos.

123 Old_Maid  6/12/08 10:15:04 am reply quote

re: #68 Honorary Yooper

What sort of information appears on it? I take it, it would have city, county, and island, but does it also have the doctor, hospital, etc?

I am at work now, and my birth cert is at home .. if this is still a topic of lively interest at 1600, I'll describe it better. It looks nothing like Hussein Obama's posted one in Kos, though. Not a bit.

124 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:15:31 am reply quote

Y'all might find this site interesting Hawaii Birth Certificate dot com

125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  6/12/08 10:15:49 am reply quote

I had to pick up my kid's birth certifcate for school and unless things have changed a lot it is missing:

Place of Birth - Hospital name, clinic or home address
Witnesses/informer - Person who confirmed the birth
Certifer - Person who was licensed to review and certify the information was correct
Registrar - The person to whom the BC was submitted to and when it was accepted as the birth certificate

126 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:15:51 am reply quote

re: #101 loppyd

Me too!

Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuwwwwwwww.

:D

Hi Ward!

Hi sweetie!

So when are you and the BF getting hitched?

127 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:15:54 am reply quote

re: #109 MandyManners

I see it as June 6.

as I throw my hands in the air- 6,7 whatever!
:)

128 Typicalwhitey  6/12/08 10:15:56 am reply quote

re: #112 Rogue198

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

Why would they release it to KOS?

129 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:16:09 am reply quote

OK, there is a little green behind some of the letters.

The crude scan makes it hard to tell.

If it's at all real, it's a reissue, and who knows, maybe they intentionally leave off a lot of detail on reissues.

130 Who Watches the Watchmen?  6/12/08 10:16:27 am reply quote

It looks similar to what New York prints when you request an official copy of a birth certificate. What I don't see is any indication that there's a raised seal on the document. I would expect a pattern of shadows at the least.

131 EC Marm  6/12/08 10:16:50 am reply quote

Looking at the Hi-Res sample from Kos I can tell you this:
The state of Hawaii needs to talk to their printer about the grain direction of the paper they use. There is an obvious crease (look in the state seal area) running across the sheet. That's tough on the laser printer and raises questions as to authenticity.

132 kywrite  6/12/08 10:16:55 am reply quote

re: #31 Just Another Four-letter Word

I'm sure there are many moonbats/LLLs in Hawaii working in the Gubmint that wouldn't have any qualms about leaking something like this to Markos or whomever.

Just sayin'

JAFLW

This is true. I can attest to that.

133 Kosh's Shadow  6/12/08 10:17:03 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

Maybe he went crawling under the bus to rescue Obama's grandmother and she got it for him in return.

134 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:17:04 am reply quote

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

Hawaii became a state in the late 1950's didn't it?

135 lawhawk  6/12/08 10:17:16 am reply quote

re: #112 Rogue198

Yes, when you request a copy of a birth certificate from whatever locality you were born in, you're not necessarily going to get the same exact copy as the original - because the form on which such information is printed has changed over time. I know that the NYC birth records are formatted differently today than when I was born, and if I were to request a new birth certificate, it would not appear the same way as the original, though the information would all be present.

It also appears that Kos got it from the Obama campaign, so that would explain how it came into his hands. Still curious why Obama would go that route.

136 DistantThunder  6/12/08 10:17:22 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

The state of Hawaii only releases birth certificates to relatives:

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

How did Moulitsas get this?

The fish rots from the head

137 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:17:37 am reply quote

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

Very, very interesting. So Hawai'i uses two different, yet similar sounding forms.

138 rollingdivision  6/12/08 10:17:42 am reply quote

African as a choice of race in 1961? I wonder......

139 bulwrk  6/12/08 10:17:59 am reply quote

re: #134 WrathofG-d

1959

140 DistantThunder  6/12/08 10:18:14 am reply quote

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I had to pick up my kid's birth certifcate for school and unless things have changed a lot it is missing:

Place of Birth - Hospital name, clinic or home address
Witnesses/informer - Person who confirmed the birth
Certifer - Person who was licensed to review and certify the information was correct
Registrar - The person to whom the BC was submitted to and when it was accepted as the birth certificate

All my children's birth certificates have all this same information - if his doesnt' something's up.

141 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:18:14 am reply quote

re: #111 MandyManners

I imagine the format changed.

It's not easy to read, but that certificate appears to date from 1964. The format is the same as the one in comment #39.

142 capitalist piglet  6/12/08 10:18:21 am reply quote

re: #134 WrathofG-d

Hawaii became a state in the late 1950's didn't it?

In 1959.

143 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:18:28 am reply quote

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

144 loppyd  6/12/08 10:18:30 am reply quote

re: #126 Ward Cleaver

Hi sweetie!

So when are you and the BF getting hitched?

STOP. IT. LOL!

145 loppyd  6/12/08 10:18:49 am reply quote

re: #143 MandyManners

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?

I have westlaw.

146 Cygnus  6/12/08 10:19:27 am reply quote

re: #19 Ringo the Gringo

Where's the little foot prints?

GMTA

147 Charles  6/12/08 10:19:37 am reply quote

re: #112 Rogue198

Folks, I'm no Obamicon by any means, but let's not turn into Truthers here. Apparently Kos admits the campaign released it to him, Gerahty over at NRO thinks it's authentic...

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

...He also mentions something that is true, when a request is made for a certification, then a new one is printed and stamped by the registrar.

It's not being a "Truther" to question Markos Moulitsas. The guy would sell his own mother if he could gain something politically.

148 loppyd  6/12/08 10:19:54 am reply quote

re: #135 lawhawk

It also appears that Kos got it from the Obama campaign, so that would explain how it came into his hands. Still curious why Obama would go that route.


So it doesn't look like he caved. Again.

149 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:20:12 am reply quote

re: #128 Typicalwhitey

*shrugs* No idea...

If it's a fraud, then nail Screw'em to the wall...

I just don't want us to turn into Truthers, seeing fakery and conspiracies everywhere

150 buzzsawmonkey  6/12/08 10:20:19 am reply quote

Obama clearly was born, but his candidacy is too much to be borne.

151 Dianna  6/12/08 10:20:20 am reply quote

If, as Charles says in the update, this is a Certificate of Live Birth, that's a public record and you can look it up.

Question - I hope it's not been answered above - has anyone done the public records search for Obama's mother's passport records? Since she has passed away, I believe those are public records?

152 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:20:44 am reply quote

re: #145 loppyd

I have westlaw.

Can you look up H.R.S. 338-13(b), 338-19?

153 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:20:44 am reply quote

I have a copy of my birth certificate and it is basically written on a bank note and this is for Washington State. Now California and several other states uses the same type of bank note for the birth certificates. Now the bank note that image supposedly use has some counterfeiting scheme to it but it's extremely poor quality.

By the way, mine's designed by the American Bank Note Company.

154 The Jinxmedic  6/12/08 10:20:49 am reply quote

A "certificate of live birth" is a government extract of the original birth certificate filed with the state or commonwealth. The certificate shown on Kos' page is what you would get if you applied for a duplicate of an existing birth certificate, in the event that you needed it for employement or identification, or whatever. It is NOT a copy of the original document, simply the extracted information printed onto a proprietary paper at the time of the request. So, yes, a certificate of live birth from 1961 can be authentic, printed via Microsoft Word with a laser printer.

155 rollingdivision  6/12/08 10:21:02 am reply quote

Does Hawaii mail birth certificates? If so do they send them flat in a large envelop or folded in a smaller envelop?

156 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:21:07 am reply quote

re: #138 rollingdivision

African as a choice of race in 1961? I wonder......

Yeah, is 'African' an official race to be used on a document? Seems to me there are Caucasian africans, as well as africans that are other races as well....

I stick to my original assertion...BS

157 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:21:20 am reply quote

re: #128 Typicalwhitey

Why would they release it to KOS?

Are you kidding? He luuuuuuuvs Obama.

158 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:21:26 am reply quote

Not to sound twoofy. But I could hop in my car, drive to McArthur Park and be back in 2 1/2 hours with a brand new shiny birth certificate. Don't simply accept them at their word, just cause it looks good.

159 Typicalwhitey  6/12/08 10:21:37 am reply quote

re: #148 loppyd

So it doesn't look like he caved. Again.


Boy he sure has some strange supporters!
The co-founder of code pink is a bundler for him!

160 zmdavid  6/12/08 10:21:53 am reply quote

Why didn't Obama put it on his own website instead of giving it to Kos? Maybe Barack's own web people are too incompetent for him to use.

161 faraway  6/12/08 10:21:58 am reply quote

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

162 Dianna  6/12/08 10:22:02 am reply quote

re: #137 Honorary Yooper

Every state does. I have both my birth certificate and a copy of my certificate of live birth; the live birth cert is useful when you don't want to use your actual birth certificate.

163 EC Marm  6/12/08 10:22:21 am reply quote

The paper appears to be Hammermill Sentry Safety paper, weight about 24#. Normally used for check printing because it has safety features that make it difficult to alter. The crease running through it makes me wonder. I would think that Hawaii would coordinate with the printer and laser supplier to ensure the papers grain direction would be correct.

164 loppyd  6/12/08 10:22:42 am reply quote

re: #152 MandyManners

Can you look up H.R.S. 338-13(b), 338-19?

I have to account for why I was on it.....it's not free and it's timed.

Hmmm. I was pulling case law and needed a Hawaii case to cite? LOL

165 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:22:50 am reply quote

I want to see a throbbing birth certificate.

166 goddessoftheclassroom  6/12/08 10:23:09 am reply quote

re: #165 unrealizedviewpoint

I want to see a throbbing birth certificate.

It would be a labor of love...

167 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:23:26 am reply quote

re: #147 Charles

I agree he's as trustworthy as a jihadist calling for a ceasefire, but let's proceed objectively here. For better or worse, Dems like Obama consider him mainstream.

168 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:24:04 am reply quote

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

169 Macker  6/12/08 10:24:19 am reply quote

re: #157 Ward Cleaver

Are you kidding? He luuuuuuuvs Obama.

Enough to get an endorsement from Kos. And you all know Kos' record on endorsements.

170 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:24:26 am reply quote

re: #147 Charles

I'd also point out that what we are tying to do here is authenticate a document, not disprove a well known reality by the absence of facts, in order to conconct a conspiracy.

171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  6/12/08 10:24:29 am reply quote

re: #143 MandyManners

Does anyone have westlaw or lexis-nexis?


We have RealWest & Lawhawk - they're just as good, if not better

172 Scarab  6/12/08 10:24:31 am reply quote

Where are BO's little foot prints? In the 1960's that was pretty much a requirement on birth ciertificates.

Scarab

173 Charles  6/12/08 10:24:39 am reply quote

re: #167 Rogue198

I agree he's as trustworthy as a jihadist calling for a ceasefire, but let's proceed objectively here. For better or worse, Dems like Obama consider him mainstream.

I am proceeding objectively.

174 loppyd  6/12/08 10:24:40 am reply quote

re: #161 faraway

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

175 Diamond Bullet  6/12/08 10:24:41 am reply quote

I don't think it's a forgery - but at the same time it's obviously not the original. It has modern dates and technology all over it. It's probably a replacement copy Obama or someone on his behalf ordered from Hawaii last year. I've had to do this for my own birth certificate.

That said, there's still the possibility that something interesting got lost in the translation over the years, particularly if categories of information used in the 1960s no longer apply, or new categories were since added. In particular I agree that the use of "African" as a race circa 1961 would be very surprising.

If we're going through this whole exercise, we should at least get the original certificate, Obama. That annoys me more than anything else.

176 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:24:42 am reply quote

re: #27 Honorary Yooper

It's a forgery, IMHO. It lacks a lot of necessary information, and it also has a strange "JUN -6 2007" at the bottom, backwards.

The date stamp is probably on the back, and bled through the paper.

177 JammieWearingFool  6/12/08 10:24:45 am reply quote

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

178 Nevergiveup  6/12/08 10:24:49 am reply quote

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

What do you wanta see, the placenta?

179 rollingdivision  6/12/08 10:24:55 am reply quote

re: #156 Power Armored Lizardoid

Yeah, is 'African' an official race to be used on a document? Seems to me there are Caucasian africans, as well as africans that are other races as well....

I stick to my original assertion...BS

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

180 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:25:05 am reply quote

re: #164 loppyd

I have to account for why I was on it.....it's not free and it's timed.

Hmmm. I was pulling case law and needed a Hawaii case to cite? LOL

l'll look using the official site.

[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  6/12/08 10:25:46 am reply quote

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

Barry, as a lightworker, coalesced fully formed from a rainbow filled with hope, change and happy thoughts.

182 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:25:55 am reply quote

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm looking for a legal search engine that can trace history of a statute.

183 CAD Daddy  6/12/08 10:26:04 am reply quote

Where is the part about the angels singing?

184 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:26:10 am reply quote

re: #160 zmdavid

Why didn't Obama put it on his own website instead of giving it to Kos? Maybe Barack's own web people are too incompetent for him to use.

I posted this earlier:

re: #53 unrealizedviewpoint

He probably did get it from the campaign. In today's TIME article it says the campaign plans to post a .pdf of Obama's birth certificate on the FightTheSmears site

185 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  6/12/08 10:26:21 am reply quote

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

He sprung, fully formed, from the head of Oprah.

186 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:26:22 am reply quote

I'm not buying this as legitimate. There is no official certification, no seal, and no signature. It lists only the barest possible information, and lists his father's ancestry as "African" - specifically not a race.

187 cizi  6/12/08 10:26:22 am reply quote

Irrespective of whether this version is authentic or not, might the fact that he is the "second" (i.e. II) or "Junior" be legally relevant in his candidacy?
Has all the paperwork been filled out accurately?

188 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:26:39 am reply quote

re: #163 EC Marm

The paper appears to be Hammermill Sentry Safety paper, weight about 24#. Normally used for check printing because it has safety features that make it difficult to alter. The crease running through it makes me wonder. I would think that Hawaii would coordinate with the printer and laser supplier to ensure the papers grain direction would be correct.

How easy would it be to obtain this kind of paper? If it is easy to do, and simply print it up, then anyone could have made it.

IMHO, this isn't up to the standards of Frank Abagnale, Jr.

189 Killgore Trout  6/12/08 10:26:45 am reply quote

re: #135 lawhawk


Still curious why Obama would go that route.


My guess would be that the campaign felt it was beneath them to jistify the demands to release the birth certificate themselves.

190 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:26:50 am reply quote

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

You never know what the circumstances are. My dad was born in Georgia, and the records there were destroyed in a flood in about 1940.

191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  6/12/08 10:26:54 am reply quote

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.

192 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:27:02 am reply quote

Vital Statistics

[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

193 The Jinxmedic  6/12/08 10:27:20 am reply quote

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.


Same deal- the replacement certificate requested in 2007, and printed at that time would not say "negro". It's an extract of the original information, and "non-PC" language would be corrected on the replacement. Big deal.

194 EC Marm  6/12/08 10:27:23 am reply quote

re: #182 MandyManners

I'm looking for a legal search engine that can trace history of a statute.


This might help you a little. From State of Hawaii web site.

195 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:27:40 am reply quote

Here is what I posted on an earlier thread ( and was hammered for it, by the way! My poor wittle sensitive feelings ! )

I am 100000% AGAINST an Obama presidency. But I think the birth issue is a non-starter and he can and will be beaten on issues.

That stated, wouldn't you think that in the long history of this country, with many past and present political parties, that the parties themselves would have a mechanism in place to ensure that their aspiring candidates would meet the constitutional requirements to be President? (and I was hammered for this question also)
(good thing I have thick Lizard Skin !)

196 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:27:45 am reply quote

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

Absolutely. And "black" as the more modern term. Defintely NOT "African."

197 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:27:50 am reply quote

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

I suspect that he's more of a Lovecraftian phenomena that a Judeo-Christian entity.

198 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:27:55 am reply quote

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

If he can keep the adversary busy on this crap they aren't finding the real dope.

199 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:28:06 am reply quote

re: #173 Charles

I am proceeding objectively.

I wasn't dissing you Charles, I was mainly reacting to the comments of the lizards, people instantly calling fake.

I'm not comfortable with that and said as much.

I'm with you, looks genuine, but as the Gipper said, "Trust but verify."

200 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:28:12 am reply quote

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.

Doesn't look debunked to me.

201 loppyd  6/12/08 10:28:28 am reply quote

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

ROFL

Does being linked on Kos give you that not so fresh feeling?

202 MadJadBad  6/12/08 10:28:35 am reply quote

What is all the bru-ha about BHO's birth certificate? The rumors about BHO's citizenship sound about as believable as the truthers. Are any of the rumors gaining traction, or was it just a response to all the truther types as DKos?

203 kywrite  6/12/08 10:28:42 am reply quote

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Ah, the Pink Monstrosity! My little girl was born there last year but I have not yet ordered an official copy of her b/c. It's time, I guess.

204 holterbarbour  6/12/08 10:28:50 am reply quote

Here's the text of HRS 338-13, including paragraph (b) (available [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, &sect17; RL 1955, &sect57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-13; am L 1978, c 49, &sect1]
The text of HRS 338-19:

And HRS 228-19: (Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, &sect23; RL 1955, &sect57-22; am L 1957, c 8, &sect1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-19]

205 irongrampa  6/12/08 10:28:50 am reply quote

I'll buy that it's a living birth certificate, done in accordance with the revision # shown, my only question is why would it not show all the info present on the original? Not ascribing any hanky-panky, just nosy.

206 Josephine  6/12/08 10:29:17 am reply quote

re: #29 Golem Akbar

If it's authentic, then that proves Obama could not be the Messiah. You know, no immaculate conception, no messiah.
(oh okay ////)

When I saw the certificate, I thought: So what was he hiding? Then I had the same (sarcastic) thought as you: Ha, proof of non-virgin birth.

Really, though: why was he so slow in releasing it?

My theory as to why he would release it to Kos: because Kos is the anti-LGF. And LGF has been causing some grief to the Obamanation in recent days.

207 loppyd  6/12/08 10:29:22 am reply quote

re: #198 unrealizedviewpoint

If he can keep the adversary busy on this crap they aren't finding the real dope.

dope....coke....but no smack, though.

/BARRY O

208 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:29:28 am reply quote

re: #199 Rogue198

I wasn't dissing you Charles, I was mainly reacting to the comments of the lizards, people instantly calling fake.

I'm not comfortable with that and said as much.

I'm with you, looks genuine, but as the Gipper said, "Trust but verify."

It does not look genuine to me and has not from the get go. But then I've dealt with a lot of birth certificates from lots of places over many years. And a little printing along with lots of graphics.

209 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:29:38 am reply quote

re: #193 The Jinxmedic

Same deal- the replacement certificate requested in 2007, and printed at that time would not say "negro". It's an extract of the original information, and "non-PC" language would be corrected on the replacement. Big deal.

However, it would either be Barack Obama, Sr.'s nationality (Kenyan) or his race in modern terms. That would be either "African-American" or "Black". Not "African".

I'm still not buying this as real.

210 JustMyView  6/12/08 10:29:49 am reply quote

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

Notice also the corners of the "Border." They seem misaligned; like someone did this in a cheap layout application.

Kos notes that he trimmed the scan, so that may account for the unevenness.

211 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:30:01 am reply quote

re: #195 sattv4u2

The Obamatons don't give a rip about issues, they just want to feel good about electing their Messiah.

212 The Jinxmedic  6/12/08 10:30:16 am reply quote

This certificate is not an issue.

213 EC Marm  6/12/08 10:30:18 am reply quote

re: #188 Honorary Yooper

How easy would it be to obtain this kind of paper? If it is easy to do, and simply print it up, then anyone could have made it.

IMHO, this isn't up to the standards of Frank Abagnale, Jr.


How easy? Might take a week, at very worst to find it. I used to buy about 100K a year of the stuff in rolls for check printing.

214 loppyd  6/12/08 10:30:20 am reply quote

re: #204 holterbarbour

Thank you. Now I don't have to come up with a lie as to why I was pulling Hawaiian case law. LOL

215 Typicalwhitey  6/12/08 10:30:23 am reply quote

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because now the Kossacks can argue that the birth certificate issue is dead since the debunked it.


Tossed 'em a bone he did.

216 MandyManners  6/12/08 10:30:24 am reply quote

re: #194 EC Marm

This might help you a little. From State of Hawaii web site.

Thanks but I found it already.

338-13 deals with certified copies. 338-19 discusses photostatic or typewritten copies of records.

217 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:30:24 am reply quote

re: #179 rollingdivision

Would think we'd be looking at "negro" as a 1961 choice.

That's a good point, if that is your point.

A Birth Cert from 1961 may say negro on it. if I were Barack I'd get a new one that used the new PC (and correct) terms.

218 kywrite  6/12/08 10:30:30 am reply quote

re: #93 goddessoftheclassroom

According to the "rules," he is a junior, but parents can list a numeral as part of the name if they wish.

Actually, I don't understand how he can have his father's last name when the father was married to another woman at the time and the father was not married to his mother.

You can name a child anything you want. For purposes of legal support etc, they like to see the father's last name.

219 ElKafir  6/12/08 10:30:36 am reply quote

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://img38 0.imageshack.us/content.php?page=done&l=img380 /5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

220 JammieWearingFool  6/12/08 10:30:48 am reply quote

re: #201 loppyd

ROFL

Does being linked on Kos give you that not so fresh feeling?

Indeed, but I'm having a chuckle. I'll be taking a swim in a couple of hours, so I'll chsiel the muck off.

221 Richard N  6/12/08 10:30:53 am reply quote

I have actually recently secure birth certificates for myself (1964), my wife (1962) and my children (1993,1994,1999).

My birth certificate is from the Commonwealth of Virginia and is a photocopy of the form filled out in 1964 and printed on certificate paper that feels like a crisp dollar bill. My wife's is from the State of California and hers is similarly done.

For 2 of my children, we have the "short form" of the full birth certificate which gives basic date like the Obama certificate. It is simply a print out of basic data, no doubt from a database that is compiled by the county records office on the certificate holder. For my last child, we have the "full" version of the birth certificate which, again, has a photocopy of the form filed by the hospital. All three were issued by the state of Texas.

The Obama Certificate is at best the "short" version. And probably easily forged....I wonder if an Obama supporting in the records office in Hawaii was able to "create" this and leaked it to Kos?

222 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:31:00 am reply quote

re: #211 The Other Les

The Obamatons don't give a rip about issues, they just want to feel good about electing their Messiah.

I'm talking about US, not THEM. They can collectively kiss my "Typically White" ass

223 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:31:04 am reply quote

re: #208 galloping granny

It does not look genuine to me and has not from the get go. But then I've dealt with a lot of birth certificates from lots of places over many years. And a little printing along with lots of graphics.


You have more experience than I do, I have a reprint of mine from the great state of Missouri.

I'm also taking the word of Jim over at NRO, he's been on the whole Birth Certificate thing since the beginning.

224 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:31:07 am reply quote

re: #204 holterbarbour

Here's the text of HRS 338-13, including paragraph (b) (available [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, &sect17; RL 1955, &sect57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-13; am L 1978, c 49, &sect1]
The text of HRS 338-19:

And HRS 228-19: (Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

&sect338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, &sect23; RL 1955, &sect57-22; am L 1957, c 8, &sect1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, &sect19; HRS &sect338-19]

The certification is not present on this document.

225 newsjunkie_ky  6/12/08 10:31:16 am reply quote

I thought I read where hussein was not his given middle name but that he changed it to hussein.

226 Nevergiveup  6/12/08 10:31:50 am reply quote

re: #214 loppyd

Thank you. Now I don't have to come up with a lie as to why I was pulling Hawaiian case law. LOL

Tell them you were looking for the missing mini-sub from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor?

227 lawhawk  6/12/08 10:32:24 am reply quote

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

If you are Darth Rove, I demand my paycheck.

You've been tardy with your outsourcing referrals. /bwhahaha

228 JammieWearingFool  6/12/08 10:32:36 am reply quote

What would have been the proper term for his father back then, negro?

My grandfather's race was listed as Irish when he landed here.

229 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:32:44 am reply quote

What was the reason for blanking out the certificate number?

230 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:32:54 am reply quote

I'm surprised noone here has photoshopped it yet.

~It'd be so easy!

231 JustMyView  6/12/08 10:33:13 am reply quote

re: #89 Old_Maid

Just want to point out, my Honolulu, HI birth cert does NOT have a banner on the top like the one you all are referencing ... I don't think that one is an actual birth certificate.

I was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii in 1969, in Honolulu. My birth cert looks nothing like the one on Kos website, nor does it resemble the one with the big banner.

Someone else may already have addressed this, but anyway . . .

The forms w/ the banner are certificates of birth issued long after the birth, presumably on the basis of some other documentation. For instance, the one coquimbojoe links to @39 was issued in 1967 to a woman born in 1909.

232 'Nam Grunt  6/12/08 10:33:13 am reply quote

Oh hell, forget all this crap, just get off your butts and vote Republican, and drag your friends and family with you, this idiot can be beat just like hanoi john the traitor was, but you have to spread the word around your neighborhood, be proactive!

233 jayzee  6/12/08 10:33:14 am reply quote

Calling into question the authenticity of this at this point may be a mistake. I am more concerned by the fact that it was potentially leaked to Kos. Speaks volumes for the political slant he has.

Obama's biggest strength has been his ability to malign those against him while dodging their criticism by saying they are unfair. This could all be a setup to hobble the effectiveness of the blogosphere.

234 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:33:16 am reply quote

re: #222 sattv4u2

I'm talking about US, not THEM. They can collectively kiss my "Typically White" ass

Okay.

They will of course declare that discussion of the issues is forbidden.

235 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:33:30 am reply quote

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

Sorry - that is the upload page, not the image. Try again :)

236 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:33:56 am reply quote

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

Uh, I don't see anything.

237 loppyd  6/12/08 10:33:59 am reply quote

re: #202 MadJadBad

What is all the bru-ha about BHO's birth certificate? The rumors about BHO's citizenship sound about as believable as the truthers. Are any of the rumors gaining traction, or was it just a response to all the truther types as DKos?

I was never in doubt of his citizenship.

The fact that it is/was totally unprecedented to refuse the release of one's BC as a candidate made it appear as though he was hiding something.

I always thought (and still am not convinced until there has been an authentication of this one) that if he was hiding anything it was either his name really is Barry, that is his parents weren't married when he was born or that his religion was listed as Muslim at birth.

238 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:34:01 am reply quote

re: #226 Nevergiveup

You had heard that there was recent case law on the issue you are supposed to be looking up that was just handed down in Hawaii, and you wanted to cover al your bases.

239 WriterMom  6/12/08 10:34:16 am reply quote

I think this story has legs.

Hiding his birth certificate is going to be VERY hard, if not impossible to justify.

I like it.

240 Charles  6/12/08 10:35:14 am reply quote

re: #212 The Jinxmedic

This certificate is not an issue.

I agree. This one is over.

241 JustMyView  6/12/08 10:35:26 am reply quote

re: #95 MandyManners

Lower right corner:

Jun 6 2007 in reverse.

Assuming it's a legitimate document, this might be the date it was issued by the state to whomever requested it.

242 holterbarbour  6/12/08 10:35:31 am reply quote

re: #224 galloping granny

That appears true, but I don't think it's dispositive:
(Available at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

[HRS 338-14.3] Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.

(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

(c) Verification may be made in written, electronic, or other form approved by the director of health.

(d) The fee for a verification in lieu of a certified copy shall be one half of the fee established in section 338-14.5 for the first certified copy of a certificate issued.

(e) Fees received for verifications in lieu of certified copies shall be remitted, and one half of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the vital statistics improvement special fund in section 338-14.6 and the remainder of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the state general fund. [L 2001, c 246, &sect1]

243 NJDhockeyfan  6/12/08 10:35:33 am reply quote

I would think this should be notarized, yes? Where’s the Notary Public’s seal?

244 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:35:34 am reply quote

re: #217 unrealizedviewpoint

That's a good point, if that is your point.

A Birth Cert from 1961 may say negro on it. if I were Barack I'd get a new one that used the new PC (and correct) terms.

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

245 jcm  6/12/08 10:35:41 am reply quote

When you request a new or replacement birth certificate you get the modern version. Since county records have been computerized, the clerk essentially runs a print job from the database to a printer. They don't go the file stacks pull the original and copy it.

I have mine from ID looks very similar.

246 Charles  6/12/08 10:35:42 am reply quote

Folks, please read what Jinxmedic has posted. There's nothing fake about this. It's the real thing.

247 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:35:49 am reply quote

re: #219 ElKafir

That is NOT a real birth certificate.
Year first laser was invented: 1960
Year first laser printer was manufactured 1975
Now look at this corner of the birth certificate: http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=ht tp://img380.imageshack.us/content.php?pa ge=done&l=img380/5313/scr99d103kd0.jpg

But yes, the detail in the way the corners of the printed-on design meet up looks amateurish. That doesn't mean it's fake; it just looks amateurish.

248 Cygnus  6/12/08 10:35:56 am reply quote

re: #168 unrealizedviewpoint

Forget the certificate. I want to see proof of an actual birth.

Do an interview with one of the Wise Guys who came to Obamessiah's manger.

249 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:36:02 am reply quote

re: #210 JustMyView

Kos notes that he trimmed the scanm, so that may account for the unevenness.

Fixed it.

How about he rescans at 200dpi or better? Most desktop scanners can do a lot better now.

250 WriterMom  6/12/08 10:36:25 am reply quote

re: #237 loppyd

Yes-lopps...those are the main points a) if he is eligible for the office of President b) what his name was at birth c) if his parents were married d) if his father is who he said he was and e) what religion is listed on the certificate

251 jcm  6/12/08 10:36:38 am reply quote

re: #240 Charles

I agree. This one is over.

Yep!

We've got more than enough issues, continuing on this one is silly and looks worse.

252 Who Watches the Watchmen?  6/12/08 10:36:44 am reply quote

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

253 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:36:50 am reply quote

re: #233 jayzee

Calling into question the authenticity of this at this point may be a mistake. I am more concerned by the fact that it was potentially leaked to Kos. Speaks volumes for the political slant he has.

Obama's biggest strength has been his ability to malign those against him while dodging their criticism by saying they are unfair. This could all be a setup to hobble the effectiveness of the blogosphere.

Ya know, that's a good point to exploit.
What in the blazing hell is Barack Obama doing releasing the requested copy of his birth certificate to that far left leaning antisemitic website KOS for?

254 Catttt  6/12/08 10:37:29 am reply quote

In case it was not posted - this is relevant:

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

Source: [Link: hawaii.gov...]

This is on a Hawaii gov. page. Please note that a Certification of Live Birth is less complete than a Certificate of Live Birth. This is from a site on how to prove you are native Hawaiian.

So something is missing. May not be relevant, but I just wonder why the Obamans are being so retentive.

255 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:37:40 am reply quote

re: #246 Charles

Couldn't you just freeze comments?

256 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:37:40 am reply quote

re: #245 jcm

When you request a new or replacement birth certificate you get the modern version. Since county records have been computerized, the clerk essentially runs a print job from the database to a printer. They don't go the file stacks pull the original and copy it.

I have mine from ID looks very similar.

I have a photostate of my original, the copy is at least 40+ years old. I wonder what I'd get if I called for a new one now? Good laugh, probably.

257 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:37:42 am reply quote

re: #240 Charles

As a learned man (well, we all know Stinky has the real brains in the organization, but I digress) I'll ask you're opinion. Wouldn't you think that in the long history of this country, with many past and present political parties, that the parties themselves would have a mechanism in place to ensure that their aspiring candidates would meet the constitutional requirements to be President?

258 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:37:57 am reply quote

I still say we might be able to backdoor FOIA it from the State of Illinois, as he would have needed it for public office.

259 itellu3times  6/12/08 10:38:04 am reply quote

re: #256 itellu3times

photostat

260 Cygnus  6/12/08 10:38:09 am reply quote

re: #177 JammieWearingFool

The Kos Kidz are on to me.

Take the poll, have some laughs.

Somehow I'm tied to Rove. Or am Rove. Not sure. My head hurts trying to figure it out.

Little Green Snotballs. Cute.

261 EC Marm  6/12/08 10:38:09 am reply quote

If you look carefully you can see that the logo has been disturbed by the paper buckling as it was heated in the laser. In the laser printing process the toner is distributed, then heated to high temperature as it runs under a very hot roller. If the paper buckles because the printer is fighting the grain, the toner will be forced off an area. An area in the logo which should be all black, it is clear to my eyes, the creasing has done just that. This is either a forgery done by someone unaware of paper grain direction, or the state of Hawaii is pretty sloppy.

262 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:38:14 am reply quote

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

Which the other side will continue to ignore.

263 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:38:21 am reply quote

re: #244 Power Armored Lizardoid

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

Actually, i was thinking just that upon reading. Sometimes I really hurt my back bending over like I do.

264 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:38:33 am reply quote

re: #221 Richard N

I have actually recently secure birth certificates for myself (1964), my wife (1962) and my children (1993,1994,1999).

My birth certificate is from the Commonwealth of Virginia and is a photocopy of the form filled out in 1964 and printed on certificate paper that feels like a crisp dollar bill. My wife's is from the State of California and hers is similarly done.

For 2 of my children, we have the "short form" of the full birth certificate which gives basic date like the Obama certificate. It is simply a print out of basic data, no doubt from a database that is compiled by the county records office on the certificate holder. For my last child, we have the "full" version of the birth certificate which, again, has a photocopy of the form filed by the hospital. All three were issued by the state of Texas.

The Obama Certificate is at best the "short" version. And probably easily forged....I wonder if an Obama supporting in the records office in Hawaii was able to "create" this and leaked it to Kos?

Yes, this is very different than any I have seen from anywhere. For starters, I have never seen one printed on check paper. I have also never seen one with a statement about "prima facie" evidence on the bottom. And even the short form copies I've seen from various states have always had an embossed state seal, the date the the copy was issued and the signature of the issuing officer on them.

265 Rogue198  6/12/08 10:38:41 am reply quote

re: #240 Charles

I agree. This one is over.

As you state in the openning post Charles, the issue is now the obvious closeness of the Obama campaign and the Koslord himself.

266 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:38:44 am reply quote

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Show's over, folks. Go back to exposing his lack of experience, questionable associations, lack of judgment, and so forth.

BINGO

267 WriterMom  6/12/08 10:38:54 am reply quote

Waaaaa! Over before it started?

I was just starting to have fun!

268 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:38:59 am reply quote

re: #249 itellu3times

Fixed it.

How about he rescans at 200dpi or better? Most desktop scanners can do a lot better now.

300dpi would be plenty good enough. Just scan the whole thing, including the edges.

269 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  6/12/08 10:39:21 am reply quote

re: #212 The Jinxmedic

This certificate is not an issue.

True. His ideas, naivety and associations are reason enough not to vote for him.

270 Iron Fist  6/12/08 10:39:39 am reply quote

re: #253 unrealizedviewpoint,

Could be Barack Hussein Obama likes far-Left leaning anti-Semites. I dunno, I'm jus' sayin'...

271 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:39:59 am reply quote

re: #257 sattv4u2

You're talking about Chicago Democrats.

They rewrite reality to suit their own needs every day. Why should they care?

272 Catttt  6/12/08 10:39:59 am reply quote

re: #161 faraway

Please read the comments people.

This is not a birth certificate from 1961.

This is a copy of a certificate of birth obtained recently from the State of Hawaii.

Hawaii offers a service to get these Certification forms via laser. The upload from a database and laser print it. You can get it via online, and it is faster than the (hard) procedures to get a Certificate. It's explained in detail on their Web site for ordering these items.

273 pat  6/12/08 10:40:12 am reply quote

As I memtioned last night, we will see more Red Herrings from the Obama camp. he will purposely create a controversy then play it out so he can defuse it and blame the GOP. This is a classic example. All he had to do was release this in June of 2007.Instead he played it out for bait.

274 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:40:58 am reply quote

Anyone here the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?

275 Pvt Bin Jammin  6/12/08 10:40:58 am reply quote

We just recently got our passports so ordered certified copies of our birth certificates from Illinois and California.

California is not valid unless the seal and the edges of the cert. are raised and engraved. Illinois is not valid without the raised seal.

Both of our certificates are certified, dated and signed by the respective County Clerks (or authorized representative) as true copies. I don't see any such thing on the above.

276 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:41:02 am reply quote

re: #244 Power Armored Lizardoid

But is the official term on a document like this 'African'? There are caucasian africans as well as Africans of other races...

The official term would never be African. "African American" is an acceptable term these days for black american citizens, but Obama's father was not a black American, he was a black African. The official term in most jurisdictions these days is "black."

277 jcm  6/12/08 10:41:09 am reply quote

re: #256 itellu3times

I have a photostate of my original, the copy is at least 40+ years old. I wonder what I'd get if I called for a new one now? Good laugh, probably.

I thought I lost the original, it was just misplaced. The original is a notarized carbon copy out of a typewriter. The replace I requested looks like the BHO one with the State of ID logos etc.

278 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:41:14 am reply quote

re: #267 WriterMom

Waaaaa! Over before it started?

I was just starting to have fun!

I don't think it is over.

279 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:41:19 am reply quote

re: #272 Catttt

Hawaii offers a service to get these Certification forms via laser. The upload from a database and laser print it. You can get it via online, and it is faster than the (hard) procedures to get a Certificate. It's explained in detail on their Web site for ordering these items.

Yes but it wasn't from online. The stamp suggests it was mailed through an office.

280 jaunte  6/12/08 10:41:20 am reply quote

Markos Moulitsas, Undersecretary of Necessary Leakage

281 crazytraveler  6/12/08 10:41:24 am reply quote

The only birth certificate experience I have is with mine, and my reprint from Indiana had neat watermarks printed on heavy paper and had a lot more information about my parents than the one that's from Kos' site. I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I personally don't care - if he's a natural US citizen, then he's qualified (legally) to run.

282 gymnast  6/12/08 10:41:33 am reply quote

For what it's worth, in order to obtain a USA passport you must submit a certified copy of your birth certificate.
Question. Has Obama ever held a passport from a country other than the USA?

283 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:41:38 am reply quote

re: #274 WrathofG-d PIMF Dag-nab-it

Anyone hear the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" / "Obama will require you to work" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?

284 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:41:49 am reply quote

re: #273 pat

As I memtioned last night, we will see more Red Herrings from the Obama camp. he will purposely create a controversy then play it out so he can defuse it and blame the GOP. This is a classic example. All he had to do was release this in June of 2007.Instead he played it out for bait.

I don't know. ?

Why allow all this speculation as to his heritage, place of birth, etc. This can't be good for him.

285 jayzee  6/12/08 10:41:50 am reply quote

Obama's campaign will be doing everything they can do in the near future to prove that right wing blogs are unfairly attacking him and that the American public should discount everything they say. I say this is the start of the start of a huge disinformation campaign being waged for that sole purpose.

That is how Obama plays.

286 ciaospirit  6/12/08 10:41:58 am reply quote

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

287 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:41:59 am reply quote

re: #276 galloping granny

The official term would never be African. "African American" is an acceptable term these days for black american citizens, but Obama's father was not a black American, he was a black African. The official term in most jurisdictions these days is "black."

His father was African so it's correct in the sense as he was never born here in the United States.

288 buzzsawmonkey  6/12/08 10:42:01 am reply quote

re: #280 jaunte

Markos Moulitsas, Undersecretary of Necessary Leakage

I'm sure he's Dependsable in that job.

289 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:42:32 am reply quote

re: #285 jayzee

Obama's campaign will be doing everything they can do in the near future to prove that right wing blogs are unfairly attacking him and that the American public should discount everything they say. I say this is the start of the start of a huge disinformation campaign being waged for that sole purpose.

That is how Obama plays.

[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

290 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:42:40 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Afrikaner?

291 jaunte  6/12/08 10:42:50 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit

"Africolonian", probably.

292 'Nam Grunt  6/12/08 10:43:19 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit

African!

293 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:43:30 am reply quote

re: #281 crazytraveler

The only birth certificate experience I have is with mine, and my reprint from Indiana had neat watermarks printed on heavy paper and had a lot more information about my parents than the one that's from Kos' site. I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I personally don't care - if he's a natural US citizen, then he's qualified (legally) to run.

Her name was Stanley because her dad wanted a boy, and was pissed when he didn't get one. So he named her Stanley anyway. No wonder she was so f-ed up. Like a boy named Sue.

294 realwest  6/12/08 10:43:43 am reply quote

Well some of us kicked this all over the place on today's dead thread.
I don't understand why, since Hannity first (?) questioned it on Fox TV, since a Kenyan newspaper says he's Kenyan (Obama, not Hannity! See the dt for today) and since it's been the subject of blogsphere rumors and charges, why doesn't Senator Obama just release a copy of his birth certificate, certified by the State of Hawaii as being true and correct?When I had to get a copy of my birth certificate from the State of North Carolina, they simply photocopied the orignial certificate and attached to it as an alonge, a certification by a notary public, under oath and bearing the seal of the State of North Carolina, that the copy was a true, complete and accurate photocopy of the birth certificate on record in XXXXXX county, N.C.

Obviously Hawaii may now make laser copies of old birth certificates or, since this ISN'T a birth certificate, but a “certification of live birth”, perhaps Hawaii does use computers to type that certification of live birth - but where is the actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE? I know of NO State that doesn't state the doctor's name, hospital, father's (sometimes also mothers) occupation and address of the parent (or at least address of the mother).
And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

295 resize  6/12/08 10:43:44 am reply quote

So Screw'em obtains O!bamas BC and posts it on his anti-american, anti semitic, Jihadist loving, koo koo moonbat website with the blessings of the O!messiah....You would think that O!deity wanting votes from bitter gun toting, religious, White Americans would go through another outlet...

296 jcm  6/12/08 10:43:47 am reply quote

re: #274 WrathofG-d

Anyone here the Michelle Obama "we will perfect your broken souls" speech this morning on what was Laura Ingram?



Hehehe!

297 Cognito  6/12/08 10:43:53 am reply quote

re: #278 galloping granny

I don't think it is over.

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

298 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:43:56 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Oppressors!

299 jaunte  6/12/08 10:43:57 am reply quote

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure he's Dependsable in that job.

He has to know he's working for the potential Disassociator-in-Chief.

300 Catttt  6/12/08 10:44:05 am reply quote

re: #279 Kaitian868

Yes but it wasn't from online. The stamp suggests it was mailed through an office.

You misunderstood - sorry if I wasn't clear. You can ORDER them online.

Obviously, you don't get them via e-mail or something. They're printed on safety paper.

Getting a certificate is not as easy as that and has more info on it.

301 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:44:18 am reply quote

I'm just proud to be a member of the ultimate 'race'...UnitedStatesian!

302 Thanos  6/12/08 10:44:22 am reply quote

Ok, there's one more thing left here. Why release today, what is this a distraction from?

303 Who Watches the Watchmen?  6/12/08 10:44:26 am reply quote

One thing I'm sure of: this birth certificate is a valid proof of residence for Chicago's Democratic Registrar of Voters.

304 JammieWearingFool  6/12/08 10:44:29 am reply quote

re: #289 unrealizedviewpoint
Rush already demolished that. The first item they cite as a "smear" is bogus.

How weak.

305 jcm  6/12/08 10:45:14 am reply quote

re: #303 Who Watches the Watchmen?

One thing I'm sure of: this birth certificate is a valid proof of residence for Chicago's Democratic Registrar of Voters.

So is a grave stone.

306 zmdavid  6/12/08 10:45:21 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit

If African is a race, what race are whites born and living in Africa?

Ask Teresa Heinz Kerry.

307 bosforus  6/12/08 10:45:21 am reply quote

Here's a link that I believe explains the difference.
[Link: www.scribd.com...]

308 karmic_inquisitor  6/12/08 10:45:32 am reply quote

re: #106 coquimbojoe

Did you grow up on the penninsula? I grew up in Portola Valley and Palo Alto.... You still around there?

Grew up in San Mateo - went to Aragon High School.

Now live in San Diego area. Parents retired to Capitola. I have 4 sisters living in the Bay Area.

Where did you go to High School?

309 Fat Jolly Penguin  6/12/08 10:45:48 am reply quote

I haven't the faintest clue how any of it works, but wouldn't Obama have to prove his eligibility for the Presidency before he even started his campaign?

310 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:45:49 am reply quote

re: #302 Thanos

Ok, there's one more thing left here. Why release today, what is this a distraction from?

to quell the furor over the one person from the VP vetting team he had to let go, and from the one he'll (most likely( have to let go soon!

311 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:46:00 am reply quote

re: #296 jcm

Pretty funny (except that people are buying it) but did you hear the show and speech? They really are selling this "lightworker" as the coming Moshiach.....very frightening. (I won't get into the Anti-Jesus stuff either)

312 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:46:08 am reply quote

re: #261 EC Marm

If you look carefully you can see that the logo has been disturbed by the paper buckling as it was heated in the laser. In the laser printing process the toner is distributed, then heated to high temperature as it runs under a very hot roller. If the paper buckles because the printer is fighting the grain, the toner will be forced off an area. An area in the logo which should be all black, it is clear to my eyes, the creasing has done just that. This is either a forgery done by someone unaware of paper grain direction, or the state of Hawaii is pretty sloppy.

I think I agree with you. That crease is very evident in the scan, and if there were an embossed seal, it should show up likewise in the scan.

I too am bothered by the fact that this is on check paper, not any other type of paper I have seen for official documents. I've never seen check paper used for any official state documents beyond, well, checks.

And, furthermore, why was it released directly to Markos Moulitsas, and not CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, et.al., in a press release? The Daily Kos is not a primary news outlet in the way the others are.

Those are some issues I have with it.

313 Kreuzueber Halbmond  6/12/08 10:46:18 am reply quote

This document is meaningless and a diversion from the real issues. The fact is Barack is born and he's their candidate. There are bigger fish to fry.

314 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:46:19 am reply quote

re: #294 realwest

Well some of us kicked this all over the place on today's dead thread.
I don't understand why, since Hannity first (?) questioned it on Fox TV, since a Kenyan newspaper says he's Kenyan (Obama, not Hannity! See the dt for today) and since it's been the subject of blogsphere rumors and charges, why doesn't Senator Obama just release a copy of his birth certificate, certified by the State of Hawaii as being true and correct?When I had to get a copy of my birth certificate from the State of North Carolina, they simply photocopied the orignial certificate and attached to it as an alonge, a certification by a notary public, under oath and bearing the seal of the State of North Carolina, that the copy was a true, complete and accurate photocopy of the birth certificate on record in XXXXXX county, N.C.

Obviously Hawaii may now make laser copies of old birth certificates or, since this ISN'T a birth certificate, but a “certification of live birth”, perhaps Hawaii does use computers to type that certification of live birth - but where is the actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE? I know of NO State that doesn't state the doctor's name, hospital, father's (sometimes also mothers) occupation and address of the parent (or at least address of the mother).
And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

Reasonable questions. All of them. Don't let up on this! I want to see the original that notes all the particulars Realwest mentions

315 Iron Fist  6/12/08 10:46:21 am reply quote

re: #286 ciaospirit,

The Enemy race. Just ask Robert Mugabe.

316 Catttt  6/12/08 10:46:40 am reply quote

re: #294 realwest


And why would Senator Obama give such a document to Kos to release, but not give Kos a copy of the Birth Certificate itself?

Maybe he's planning to throw Markos under the bus. /

317 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:46:41 am reply quote

re: #309 Fat Jolly Penguin

see my #257

318 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:46:57 am reply quote

re: #300 Catttt

You misunderstood - sorry if I wasn't clear. You can ORDER them online.

Obviously, you don't get them via e-mail or something. They're printed on safety paper.

Getting a certificate is not as easy as that and has more info on it.

Ah yes you're correct. I don't understand why June 6th, 2007 became such a good idea to requisition a birth certificate.

319 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:47:16 am reply quote

re: #313 Kreuzueber Halbmond

This document is meaningless and a diversion from the real issues. The fact is Barack is born and he's their candidate. There are bigger fish to fry.

You go eat the fish. I want to finish this meal.

320 snowcrash  6/12/08 10:47:22 am reply quote

I think it was released it to the DailyKos because Obamas people identified the sources of questions of his birth to be originating from the right wing blogs. Kos was his vehicle for getting it out into the blogosphere.

321 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:47:39 am reply quote

re: #287 Kaitian868

His father was African so it's correct in the sense as he was never born here in the United States.

But it is NOT a race. A nationality, yes. However, even today your children will be identified by a "race" tag on their birth certificates - used for identification purposes in case of similar names.

322 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 10:47:46 am reply quote

re: #308 karmic_inquisitor

Grew up in San Mateo - went to Aragon High School.

Now live in San Diego area. Parents retired to Capitola. I have 4 sisters living in the Bay Area.

Where did you go to High School?

Palo Alto High, moved from PV to PA after 8th grade.... Knew people at Aragon, but after 25 years (almost to the day) I can't remember any...

323 ElKafir  6/12/08 10:47:54 am reply quote

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/scraac180b t3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

324 crash72  6/12/08 10:48:00 am reply quote

He did this with his medical records too. He distilled originals down to a sanitized form letter and released it.

325 Shr_Nfr  6/12/08 10:48:25 am reply quote

re: #161 faraway

Yes, that is certainly the best case. I am still concerned a bit about the selective compression defects. I am actually less concerned with the fact that it says it was done in Photoshop than you might think. Photoshop will let you acquire an image from a scanner. If there had been a paper copy and if somebody had just done that to get the scan, it would have come out with those properties. The lack of the raised seal and the means of release still concern me.

326 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:48:26 am reply quote

re: #321 galloping granny

But it is NOT a race. A nationality, yes. However, even today your children will be identified by a "race" tag on their birth certificates - used for identification purposes in case of similar names.

Maybe his mother was *cough* stupid and said he was "African" rather than "Kenyan"?

327 fish-man  6/12/08 10:48:45 am reply quote

Well, I was inclined to believe the document - figured it was a certificate of live birth that he had done recently for his filing for the senate or something. But then, I pulled a certificate of live birth from another state that was done recently for someone in my family. Now different states can be real different, but they probably do similar things - and Obama's has almost no information. The one in my hands is a photocopy of the original, showing a signature of who registered the birth, who certified it, when it was recieved, and even birth information on the parents. It also has an issue date showing when it was re-issued and information indicating by whom. Finally, the patterns around the edges are much more complex, like what you see printed on money, and there is a visible serial number in a different color (Blacked out by Kos?). Kos says he truncated the form, but I don't see where the truncation happened, instead I see odd junctures at each corner. And what is with the corruption of the color image of the background around some words like 'Mothers Maiden Name' ? That happens to images I am workin on when I type in text using lo-tech tools - I don't think a good scanned image would be like that. Tho I suppose that could have happened when Kos truncated it... ...wherever that mysterious truncation is.

Oh, and I see evidence of a something like a 'raised seal' just above the reversed date. There is another side to the original document (or whatever provided the background for photoshopping) that might be interesting to see.

I have probably spent too much time looking at this already. If it was an official document, it would be certified by someone who could attest to it's officiality who is actually in the business of certifying or producing birth certificates, and we would know how Kos got it. Instead we are gazing at something that appeared out of the blue to 'answer' questions. And meanwhile the Kos-crowd is laughing because they think it is funny that ANYONE might review a document like this, and still on the McCain/Canal Zone thing. Heaven forbid we should look twice at any document.

328 loppyd  6/12/08 10:48:56 am reply quote

re: #220 JammieWearingFool

Indeed, but I'm having a chuckle. I'll be taking a swim in a couple of hours, so I'll chsiel the muck off.

It's good stuff, that's for sure...

A few coldies will help too. :D

329 jcm  6/12/08 10:49:05 am reply quote

re: #311 WrathofG-d

Pretty funny (except that people are buying it) but did you hear the show and speech? They really are selling this "lightworker" as the coming Moshiach.....very frightening. (I won't get into the Anti-Jesus stuff either)

Demonstrates the spiritual vacuum most people have.

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He also has planted eternity in men's hearts and minds [a divinely implanted sense of a purpose working through the ages which nothing under the sun but God alone can satisfy], yet so that men cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.
Ecclesiastes 3:11

330 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:49:17 am reply quote

re: #323 ElKafir

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/ scraac180bt3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

That's because this is a certification of live birth by the State of Hawaii, not the actual birth certificate issued in 1961.

331 realwest  6/12/08 10:49:26 am reply quote

re: #297 Cognito
Cog, the question isn't whether or not he's a citizen,
but whether or not he's a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
This certification of live birth would seem to say yes he is.
I'd still like to see the orignial Birth Certificate though, or at least a copy of it CERTIFIED by the State of Hawaii as being true, complete and correct.
I honestly don't see why that's such a difficult thing for Senator Obama to produce.

332 Kreuzueber Halbmond  6/12/08 10:49:39 am reply quote

re: #319 unrealizedviewpoint

You go eat the fish. I want to finish this meal.

Call me when the main course arrives.

333 holterbarbour  6/12/08 10:50:16 am reply quote

If there's any law disqualifying Obama from the presidency, perhaps his associations with dubious characters may implicate Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the U.S Constitution:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

334 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 10:50:24 am reply quote

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

That's not the issue. There are two separate issues on hand here.

1. Is this a legitimate birth certificate?
2. Is Barack Hussein Obama a natural-born citizen of these United States?

We know he is a citizen, Cog, just not which kind (natural-born or naturalized).

335 SummerSong  6/12/08 10:50:29 am reply quote

re: #158 unrealizedviewpoint


Nah, more likely, you'd be in line for 2 1/2 hours and then they would inform you that it will take a week and that they will mail it to you. Been there, done that.

336 ElKafir  6/12/08 10:50:55 am reply quote

re: #330 Kaitian868

That's because this is a certification of live birth by the State of Hawaii, not the actual birth certificate issued in 1961.

Let's see the original then.

337 formercorpsman  6/12/08 10:50:57 am reply quote

I accept this as a State issued document.

My only question.

Why not just release the original and make it a non-issue?

338 Vergeltung  6/12/08 10:51:03 am reply quote

re: #332 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Call me when the main course arrives.

I know, right? talk about much ado about nothing....

339 Dawnfire82  6/12/08 10:51:19 am reply quote

Of course, if Certificates of Live Birth are actually laser printed up in Word these days, that means that alterations could easily be entered and be virtually undetectable, right?

They should have simply released the original Birth Certificate.

340 'Nam Grunt  6/12/08 10:51:36 am reply quote

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

341 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 10:51:49 am reply quote

re: #329 jcm

Interesting if you look at what the Dem party has done over the years. First they remove G-d from the society. Then they replace G-d with Government. Then they try to sell you that god's Moshiach! (Obama).

It is exactly what Socialism did. Replaced G-d with Government.

Or in short: It is Idol Worship.

342 mixa  6/12/08 10:51:50 am reply quote

re: #309 Fat Jolly Penguin

I haven't the faintest clue how any of it works, but wouldn't Obama have to prove his eligibility for the Presidency before he even started his campaign?

To whom?

343 Power Armored Lizardoid  6/12/08 10:51:55 am reply quote

re: #332 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Call me when the main course arrives.

I'm hoping the main course will be McCain having Barry's liver in the debates with some fava beans and a nice chianti...

Heh.

344 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:51:59 am reply quote

Obama is a commie, his mother and father were commies, and his friends are commies. That's all you need to know about him.

345 jaunte  6/12/08 10:52:04 am reply quote

It would be funny, as an emailer to the corner suggested, if the hesitancy over releasing the actual certificate was about Obama being named Barry Dunham at birth. Meanwhile, on to the real problems with his candidacy.

346 Catttt  6/12/08 10:52:04 am reply quote

Call me crazy, but I'll bet the original cert. doesn't classify Mr. Obama, Sr. as of the African race.

I have relatives who were born in Africa (I have a cousin who was a missionary there, with her husband, for years, and they had a bunch of kids while there).

Are they of the African race?

347 BigJohn  6/12/08 10:52:10 am reply quote

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

348 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:52:15 am reply quote

re: #324 crash72

He did this with his medical records too. He distilled originals down to a sanitized form letter and released it.

We don't want no distilled sanitized answers Barack Obama. We want a full disclosure. Every body chant together now.
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!

349 Shr_Nfr  6/12/08 10:52:19 am reply quote

re: #321 galloping granny

1997 OMB Race classifications that would have applied to his father are "Black" or "African American" per the OMB citation I posted earlier.

350 formercorpsman  6/12/08 10:52:23 am reply quote

re: #339 Dawnfire82

Indeed.

Why even go through the trouble?

If this is on the original, for your own sake, put the original out there.

351 Fat Jolly Penguin  6/12/08 10:53:17 am reply quote

re: #342 mixa

To whom?

I don't know; that's why I asked... The FEC? The Democrat Party?

352 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:53:23 am reply quote

re: #346 Catttt

Call me crazy, but I'll bet the original cert. doesn't classify Mr. Obama, Sr. as of the African race.

I have relatives who were born in Africa (I have a cousin who was a missionary there, with her husband, for years, and they had a bunch of kids while there).

Are they of the African race?

Well now. What could it possibly say?

353 offendi  6/12/08 10:53:26 am reply quote

Well at least it proves it wasn't immaculate conception, like some of his supporters seem to believe.

354 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:53:57 am reply quote

re: #347 BigJohn

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

By the American Bank Note Company? I would have to say that most if not all companies uses this type of note.

[Link: www.abncompany.com...]

355 sattv4u2  6/12/08 10:54:00 am reply quote

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

right ,,,,, again ,, see my 257!

356 Big Steve  6/12/08 10:54:13 am reply quote

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

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357 JohnnyReb  6/12/08 10:54:26 am reply quote

It is possible that his family lost his original birth certificate. Given how they moved him around all the time, it is certainly possible. And he asked for a brith certificate from Hawaii and this is what he got.

358 loppyd  6/12/08 10:54:33 am reply quote

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

I don't think people are questioning his citizenship. But if we're going to be technical, being a citizen is not enough. David Ortiz became a US citizen yesterday, but he cannot be president.

The fact that he resisted gives an impression of hiding something. It's a perception issue.

359 jcm  6/12/08 10:54:47 am reply quote

re: #341 WrathofG-d

Interesting if you look at what the Dem party has done over the years. First they remove G-d from the society. Then they replace G-d with Government. Then they try to sell you that god's Moshiach! (Obama).

It is exactly what Socialism did. Replaced G-d with Government.

Or in short: It is Idol Worship.

Yep....

360 bosforus  6/12/08 10:55:04 am reply quote

Kos, how hard was it to get this? (8+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
RN in NYC, Spathiphyllum, pgm 01, crodri, flumptytail, maizenblue, Cassandra Waites, mamamarti

Just wondering...

Lisa :)

"No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

by Boston to Salem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:14:39 AM PDT

[ Reply to This |Recommend ]
Kos, how hard was it to get this? by Boston to Salem, Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:14:39 AM PDT (8+ / 0-)

*
* [new] I bet he googled it by gaspare, Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:22:32 AM PDT (3+ / 0-)
*
I asked the campaign (45+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
aisling, Steven R, latts, Lipstick Liberal, Plutonium Page, Joe B, sprhoto, indybend, mentaldebris, brown girl in the ring, wanderindiana, Boston to Salem, ttujoe, bwren, leevank, GN1927, mcfly, Catte Nappe, Tillie630, Spathiphyllum, Dauphin, nowheredesign, mariachi mama, pgm 01, Dartagnan, slb36cornell, crodri, flumptytail, TexasLiz, Cassandra Waites, etoipi, Dewey Kneadleeders, jay w, mamamarti, OHeyeO, clambake, Michael James, Rorgg, paintitblue, mahakali overdrive, math4barack, Qtrubb Bull, jem286, Alohilani, fleisch

This "journamalism" thing actually works sometimes.

by kos on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:46:03 AM PDT

[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend ]

361 Cognito  6/12/08 10:55:05 am reply quote

re: #331 realwest

Cog, the question isn't whether or not he's a citizen,
but whether or not he's a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
This certification of live birth would seem to say yes he is.
I'd still like to see the orignial Birth Certificate though, or at least a copy of it CERTIFIED by the State of Hawaii as being true, complete and correct.
I honestly don't see why that's such a difficult thing for Senator Obama to produce.

Why should he?

I've said all along that Obama does owe proof of natural-born citizenship (whatever that means -- it's still somewhat undefined) to some clerk somewhere, to pass the Constitutional requirements for Presidency. If you think the United States of America is so inept that it might forget to follow the Constitution, then the problem is much larger than Obama's paperwork.

What he doesn't owe is a public parade of his birth certificate.

The question arises, then: "Well, he must be hiding something." That's a dangerous mentality: If you won't do XYZ, you must have something to hide.

This is a red herring that will, I expect, only lead to embarrassment and the marginalization of more legitimate criticisms that may come later.

362 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:55:20 am reply quote

re: #323 ElKafir

#235 Galloping Granny

Sorry for the mess-up. Here is the picture:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3518/ scraac180bt3.jpg

If laser printers were first marketed in 1975, how the hell Obama's birth certificate was printed on a laser printer in 1961?

Oh, I see what you are saying. That line is a standard line you see on government documents. The OHSM is the abbreviation for the particular division of the Hawai'ian state government, 1.1 is the form number and the REV is the date it was last revised. The 1.1 seems more software-ish to me than government documents, as those usually have numbers like DD Form 214 or IRS 1040A. I don't think the laser is necessarily the issue.

363 NJDhockeyfan  6/12/08 10:55:20 am reply quote

re: #356 Big Steve

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

Advertising
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Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

364 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 10:55:26 am reply quote

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

Oh maybe not. Hillary ran an absolutely horrible campaign against this man. She always attacked too late and to short.

365 Kaitian868  6/12/08 10:55:30 am reply quote

re: #356 Big Steve

Wow I noticed that now that you pointed it out.

366 Catttt  6/12/08 10:56:19 am reply quote

re: #348 unrealizedviewpoint

We don't want no distilled sanitized answers Barack Obama. We want a full disclosure. Every body chant together now.
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!
Full disclosure!

I don't think there is anything on the original certificate that would be news.

I personally think this is all about the Obamans being anal retentive.

ANAL RETENTIVE 08! /

367 The Other Les  6/12/08 10:56:20 am reply quote

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

The thought probably never occurred to them. They just assumed (a relative of Know it all) that he was legit.

368 JammieWearingFool  6/12/08 10:56:31 am reply quote
UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: Daily Kos: Eulogy before the Inevitability of Self-Destruction: The Decline and Death of Israel.

You're smearing them!

/

369 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:56:35 am reply quote

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

To whom would he have produced it, since he refused to provide it to the media? And would those be the same folks to whom John Carry produced his military records?

370 loppyd  6/12/08 10:56:46 am reply quote

re: #340 'Nam Grunt

The Obama wouldn't have gotten this far if he didn't produce proof of citizenship to someone, don't y'all think Hillary would have raised two kinds of hell about this a long time ago if there was a question?

Perhaps.

I still think she publicly play nice and say all the right things, but will have her henchmen in the shadows helping to ensure an Obama loss.

Then she can run in 2012 on the "I told you so" platform.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA

371 Son Of The Godfather  6/12/08 10:56:46 am reply quote

Faxed from a Kinko's by an unimpeacheable source...

372 faraway  6/12/08 10:56:48 am reply quote

If this document is real, then these facts are known:
1. Barry was born in the USA and is a citizen.
2. Barry's mother says the father is Barack, Sr.

The "African" part makes perfect sense to me.

Since we are prevented from seeing the original birth certificate, these facts are not known:
1. Usually the birth certificate lists the religion of the parents (as declared by the mother)

Further, we have no way of knowing from a birth certificate whether the parents are actually married or not at the time of birth.

373 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:56:49 am reply quote

re: #347 BigJohn

I don't have that original document that you get at the hospital when you are born. I don't think those are considered official anymore. I had to go to the county just like many others, to get a similar document for a passport. It is from Dallas County Texas and is called Certification of Vital Record. It has all of the same similar information like the one posted by Kos. It just looks different.

I've got one of those little hospital birth certificates from here in Dallas. Definitely not official enough.

374 Dave_Da_Kid  6/12/08 10:56:52 am reply quote

I recently had to get a copy of my Birth Certificate for a job. When I photocopied the "Official copy" it showed up watermarks that allowed the person getting the copy I made that it was just that.... A copy. So, where am I going with this? How was this document prepared for web publication? Was is scanned? If so should it show a watermark to indicate that it has been photo copied (scanned)? I don't know but I wonder.........

375 BigJohn  6/12/08 10:57:14 am reply quote

re: #354 Kaitian868

By the American Bank Note Company? I would have to say that most if not all companies uses this type of note.

[Link: www.abncompany.com...]

Yep, very similar to those.

376 Big Steve  6/12/08 10:57:21 am reply quote

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

Maybe from under Obama's bus....there is a lot guys looking for work from there

377 MadJadBad  6/12/08 10:57:57 am reply quote

re: #174 loppyd

Which begs the question. Why release this version as opposed to a copy of the original birth certificate?

There is probably nothing sinister going on, but these kinds of antics are a small example of his M.O.

A certificate of birth is probably a medical document while a birth certificate is probably a legal document.
Back in the 60's, a birth certificate was probably just a copy of the hospital's certificate of live birth with a state seal embossed on it. (It was in my case).
The posted image was probably a new copy issued in 1997, explaining the date at the bottom.
Due to changes in technology, you would not expect a new copy to look anything like the original. Before computers, the certificates had to be physically filed somewhere, now the information is stored in databases, which could be printed out in whatever format the dept. of health deems appropriate. I would expect it to be printed on tamper resistant paper with an embossed seal.

378 'Nam Grunt  6/12/08 10:58:06 am reply quote

re: #364 unrealizedviewpoint

Agree, but don't you think if she had proof of false citizenship she would have bought billboards in every city in the USA! He's for real and he's in our faces, the only way to send him to the woodpile is to vote against the POS communist!

379 Shr_Nfr  6/12/08 10:58:10 am reply quote

I would have felt more comfortable with BO releasing this through his office than via the means that it has come out. Even if this is real, and it may be or may not be I am now agnostic on it, this was a bad judgment on his part to release it in this manner. But then again whenever was BO known for his good judgment?

380 Catttt  6/12/08 10:58:28 am reply quote

re: #356 Big Steve

CyberSocket Magazine? ? ? Good golly Miss Molly!

381 jorline  6/12/08 10:58:48 am reply quote

re: #356 Big Steve

Did anyone notice the ad on the KOS site next to this item. So how does one get a job like that?

Advertising
Classifieds
Executive Male EscortsTraveling? Or just horny for a hot guy? Nominated "Best Escort Site 2003-2007" by CyberSocket Magazine! Your pleasure is most important for ALL these polished & professional male escorts worldwide! Each ad has photos, bio, stats, reviews & contact info. Listings are FREE!
Read more...

Markos is a Pimp, who would have guessed.

I bet he looks cute in purple...lol

382 Charles  6/12/08 10:58:54 am reply quote

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

383 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 10:59:26 am reply quote

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Do they operate from Barney Frank's basement?

What do you mean by "operate"?

/i don't wanna know

384 lightspeed  6/12/08 10:59:28 am reply quote

Shouldn't Dick Cheney be able to get a copy of his birth certificate? After all, they are distant cousins and he meets the Hawaii requirement of "a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin)."

385 galloping granny  6/12/08 10:59:46 am reply quote

re: #297 Cognito

This one was over long before it started. Obama couldn't get a job at my local fast-food joint without detailing his citizenship. Much less pass the Illinois bar and serve as a US senator.

He's a citizen, guys.

Cognito I am surprised at you. I thought you were a smart reporter type dude. Have you forgotten all of the 12 million plus illegal aliens in this country who work somewhere and have "proved" their right to do so with falsified documentation?

And the question is not whether he is a citizen. Arnold Schwarzenneger is a citizen long since, but he can never be POTUS.

386 syndicate  6/12/08 10:59:48 am reply quote

"That's not the birth certificate I knew..."

Seriously though, here's what I know.

The form text is not justified as it should be if this were an authentic form. By form text I mean existing text such as "Date of Birth" that would exist on the form stock.

The information text such as Baracks name, Honolulu, Stanley, Caucasian etc is not justified left as it would be if authentic. All of the words are places in slightly different alignment.

The font of the form and the font used for the entries of Baracks information appear to be the same.

There is no raised stamped seal.

The date of June 6, 2007 bleeding through means nothing. You can buy one of these stamps in any stationary store and set the date to anything you want.

Looks like more pathetic bull from Kos and his band of liars.

387 Cygnus  6/12/08 11:00:06 am reply quote

re: #366 Catttt

I don't think there is anything on the original certificate that would be news.

I personally think this is all about the Obamans being anal retentive.

ANAL RETENTIVE 08! /

Campaign slogan for Anal Retentive 08: We Won't Give You Any S**t!

388 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 11:00:25 am reply quote
The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this:

This is the angle folks.
Will KOS go under the bus where it belongs.

389 taxfreekiller  6/12/08 11:00:43 am reply quote

those who know close in fights and how some react,

some say we now see the actions of some or one or two
who are a bit on the afraid aka "got fear", side of things,

when the fear thing gets your hand and head, the ability to think
straight gets all fudgeD up,, and the quick change on the clip slows
up and you have to stab at the thing, turn it up and look before you
can get the clip in and keep firing......

that is what this shit is all about,

FEAR OF FEAR ITSELF

push them, push him, push, push,

390 formercorpsman  6/12/08 11:01:06 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

You predicted it yesterday.

391 coquimbojoe  6/12/08 11:01:47 am reply quote

From the newly posted update:

militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect

Does anyone know what the membership dues are? I think they went up from last year...

393 Dianna  6/12/08 11:02:21 am reply quote

re: #353 offendi

The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate Conception. It doesn't refer to Jesus.

394 Cognito  6/12/08 11:02:25 am reply quote

re: #385 galloping granny

Cognito I am surprised at you. I thought you were a smart reporter type dude. Have you forgotten all of the 12 million plus illegal aliens in this country who work somewhere and have "proved" their right to do so with falsified documentation?

And the question is not whether he is a citizen. Arnold Schwarzenneger is a citizen long since, but he can never be POTUS.

So you think Obama might be an illegal immigrant who has fooled all levels of the American government, up to the Presidency?

Really?

395 buzzsawmonkey  6/12/08 11:02:38 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

That Khazar-and-blood-libel Kos diary is something one would expect to find at Stormfront.

It is utterly vile--as well as seriously factually challenged.

396 EC Marm  6/12/08 11:02:48 am reply quote

re: #374 Dave_Da_Kid

If so should it show a watermark to indicate that it has been photo copied (scanned)? I don't know but I wonder.........


Since this type of paper is traditionally used for check printing it shows erasers very quickly, and any use of a chemical to erase ink changes the color of the paper instantly. Some manufacturers (not all) build in a watermark.

397 johnm  6/12/08 11:02:52 am reply quote

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

398 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 11:03:15 am reply quote

This association should paint the picture quite well allowing the folks to understand. KOS has been receiving the deserved exposure for quite some time. Maybe now, this election season, they'll get their due?

399 galloping granny  6/12/08 11:03:20 am reply quote

re: #361 Cognito

Why should he?

I've said all along that Obama does owe proof of natural-born citizenship (whatever that means -- it's still somewhat undefined) to some clerk somewhere, to pass the Constitutional requirements for Presidency. If you think the United States of America is so inept that it might forget to follow the Constitution, then the problem is much larger than Obama's paperwork.

What he doesn't owe is a public parade of his birth certificate.

The question arises, then: "Well, he must be hiding something." That's a dangerous mentality: If you won't do XYZ, you must have something to hide.

This is a red herring that will, I expect, only lead to embarrassment and the marginalization of more legitimate criticisms that may come later.

The problem, Cog, is that as we have never before had a candidate for POTUS whose father was not a US citizen, we have never had any assigned clerk or department anywhere to collect and certify the information on behalf of the American voting public. And since he is interviewing for the job with ALL of us, then ALL of us are entitled to assure ourselves that he meets the qualifications set forth in the Constitution.

400 WrathofG-d  6/12/08 11:03:35 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

Leftists....consitantly surrounded by racists, Anti-Semites and extremists....when asked can only find them in the Republican party.

401 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 11:03:42 am reply quote

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

I've got one of those little hospital birth certificates from here in Dallas. Definitely not official enough.

Interesting. When you have the form filled out in Michigan, it is sent to the city/village/township for filing and is stamped with the seal, thus making it official.

What kind of little form is this, out of curiosity?

402 jorline  6/12/08 11:03:42 am reply quote

re: #392 Catttt

New Obama poster

Spot on, Catttt

403 JustMyView  6/12/08 11:03:59 am reply quote

re: #281 crazytraveler

I'm kinda weirded out by the fact that his mom's first name is Stanley.

I read an article about her that said that she was weirded out about it too! I think she went by her middle name, Anne.

404 Cognito  6/12/08 11:04:00 am reply quote
UPDATE at 6/12/08 10:54:41 am:

The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this...

Not sure I follow the logic of the ties, here, Charles. I don't like Kos, but he asked for the document. Did the Obama campaign refuse to hand over the same document to you?

405 hippieforlife  6/12/08 11:04:31 am reply quote

re: #52 MandyManners

That Fight the Smears web site is so funny! Obama's quote that "we are all Americans" really rings hollow, just like the man himself.

406 Shr_Nfr  6/12/08 11:04:37 am reply quote

re: #358 loppyd

"The fact that he resisted gives an impression of hiding something. It's a perception issue." - This is often a fault with lawyers. Their first reaction is to not release something. Please remember that Nixon was not given the heave ho because he authorized the break in, it was because he decided to hide it and cover it up. If he had come out and simply said that "It has come to my attention that some members of the campaign staff have performed illegal acts which I did not authorize and which I now condemn" he would have finished out his term. But that was not in Nixon's character.

I think BO's "lawyer reflex" will continue to get him into credibility problems for the rest of the campaign.

BO would be well advised to follow Harry Truman's wisdom of: "Always tell the truth, that way you do not have to remember what you said."

407 buzzsawmonkey  6/12/08 11:04:57 am reply quote

re: #397 johnm

I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates,

Homer Simpson works for the State of Hawaii?

408 realwest  6/12/08 11:05:03 am reply quote

re: #361 Cognito
"Why should he?"
Well, let's see: he's running for President of the United States, has never been in the miliary, hasn't released his full medical records (which do have at least a photocopy of the BIRTH CERTIFICATE in them - it's true, just check with your own doc to find out!) and he has been questioned as to whether or not he meets the qualifications of being President of the United States.
I think the better question is: Why shouldn't he release a copy of his actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE and stop all the "smear" campaigns and "lies" told about him right now?I mean, why release tax returns? Why release medical records (which he hasn't done, of course)? Why any number of things, other than the BIRTH CERTIFICATE will verify his qualification for the Presidency?

409 CoCo  6/12/08 11:05:48 am reply quote

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

Agreed...the real story here should be the venue in which the certificate was delivered. That association sickens me.

410 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 11:05:54 am reply quote
411 Cygnus  6/12/08 11:06:19 am reply quote

re: #391 coquimbojoe

From the newly posted update:

militantly atheistic Luciferian Ashkenazic Jewish sect

Does anyone know what the membership dues are? I think they went up from last year...

Aren't they the people who issue Zionist paychecks?

412 seekeroftruth  6/12/08 11:06:23 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

So Obama is openly associating himself with anti-semitic bloggers. Interesting.

413 MandyManners  6/12/08 11:06:48 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

Looks like someone failed Composition 101.

414 abolitionist  6/12/08 11:07:02 am reply quote

Trivia question: Is Obama's mama
Stanley Ann Durham
or
Stanley Ann Dunham

415 Killgore Trout  6/12/08 11:07:09 am reply quote

Obama has it so easy!
by kos

Cole also points out that the inevitable right-wing efforts to "debunk" the birth certification that I published this morning (and given to me by the Obama campaign after I asked them for it).

Well, that settles that.

416 Ben Hur  6/12/08 11:07:16 am reply quote

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

I guess that settles it.

BBL.

again.

417 zmdavid  6/12/08 11:07:24 am reply quote

re: #407 buzzsawmonkey

Homer Simpson works for the State of Hawaii?

I always think of Homer when I see a Democrat from Ohio in print.
Eg: Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

418 Catttt  6/12/08 11:07:29 am reply quote

re: #413 MandyManners

Looks like someone failed Composition 101.

Charles, that is an outrage up with which I would not put. /

419 MandyManners  6/12/08 11:07:34 am reply quote

re: #395 buzzsawmonkey

That Khazar-and-blood-libel Kos diary is something one would expect to find at Stormfront.

It is utterly vile--as well as seriously factually challenged.

Remember the one the other day in which the Jews were to blame for McKinnley's assasination?

420 Dianna  6/12/08 11:07:35 am reply quote

re: #394 Cognito

Ahem - the question isn't "is he a citizen." It is, "was he born in the United States?"

Got it?

421 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 11:07:37 am reply quote

re: #404 Cognito

Not sure I follow the logic of the ties, here, Charles. I don't like Kos, but he asked for the document. Did the Obama campaign refuse to hand over the same document to you?

You are amazing. He could have posted it to his own site yet he gives it to his KOS.

422 hippieforlife  6/12/08 11:07:41 am reply quote

re: #265 Rogue198

Don't forget how supportive of Hillary that Kos was. Why she even spoke at his convention! It's only mid-June and look how many people he has had to throw under the bus!

Maybe he should be charged with "war crimes" for the most staffers thrown under a bus during his campaign. LOL!

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  6/12/08 11:07:43 am reply quote

Didn't read all of the comments. But now we have proof. Obama is a Human Being.

424 taxfreekiller  6/12/08 11:08:00 am reply quote

troll

425 formercorpsman  6/12/08 11:08:11 am reply quote

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

I don't question the authenticity. I accept it. But why not just release a copy of the original?

Serioulsy?

I think if you are the democrat candidate, and trying to eliminate rumors, why not just kill it if you have the ability?

426 EC Marm  6/12/08 11:08:39 am reply quote

(AP-not) April 1, 2009
President Barack Obama today released details of his economic proposals. Congressmen are invited to review the full details at DailyKos.com

427 Ward Cleaver  6/12/08 11:08:49 am reply quote

re: #382 Charles

I've updated the post to point out who it is that the Obama campaign is associating with.

How long before Kos has an imprint from one of these across his face?

428 Honorary Yooper  6/12/08 11:09:06 am reply quote

re: #397 johnm

You folks are wasting your time. I'm a) formerly employed by the Hawaii State Department of Health, b) a LEO who's spent hours in the vital statistics branch at Kinau Hale (the DOH) looking at birth, death, and marriage certificates, c) father of two boys both born in Hawaii, with Hawaii birth certificates, d) with Barry, a fellow alum of Punahou School, though I am not a fan. The document on Kos is exactly what you would get if you requested a certification from DOH to prove your birthplace/date for an employer or whatever. DOH stopped giving out the other, more comprehensive copies of the birth certificates some time back (like 20 years). The original's still on file and if I had a legitimate reason - like a law enforcement purpose - I could go look at it but all it's going to show is that the man was born at Kapiolani Medical Center on the date indicated, just like he says in his book. Wasting time on this non-issue makes those of us skeptical of any Democrat claims look frankly... stupid.

Fair enough, but why release it to Markos Moulitsas, and not a reputable news outlet?

429 loppyd  6/12/08 11:09:21 am reply quote

re: #394 Cognito

So you think Obama might be an illegal immigrant who has fooled all levels of the American government, up to the Presidency?

Really?

You can be admitted to the state bar if you were born in another country and became a US citizen. Same goes for Congress. I believe you have to be a citizen for seven years in order to serve.

I don't think anybody is saying he's illegal.

People are pointing out that you must be born in the US to be president. There is a difference which you seem to be ignoring.

FWIW I never thought that was the reason behind Obama's stonewalling.

430 The Other Les  6/12/08 11:09:32 am reply quote

Well as long as BHO wasn't born on this island.

[Link: www.macguff.fr...]

431 unrealizedviewpoint  6/12/08 11:09:36 am reply quote

re: #423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't read all of the comments. But now we have proof. Obama is a Human Being.

It's not proof until verification.

432 realwest  6/12/08 11:10:05 am reply quote

Well y'all it's been grand as usual, but I gotta go eat some lunch now.

AND, no matter what anyone says, infers or implies, the reality is that if Obama released a certified copy of his Birth Certificate, the entire issue would be cleared up once and for all.
For those who question why he should release it, I've already answered that.
Hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

433 Ward Cleaver