I could care less about my liberal neighbors, but I'm disturbed as all get-out about Jindal's falling for this hoax.

And out the left side of the tour bus you will see the tragic sight of the conservatives eating their own young...

Bad horse! *SMACKKO!*

re: #2 Sifty

How do you get that?

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Is it really on par with snake handling? Maybe I'm reading this post wrong (and others)...but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

It's a coalition. Think big tent John. Plenty of room for the "snake handlers".

And the thing is, Jindal is Catholic, and the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution.

At least according to Wikipedia (and my grade school nuns).

re: #5 orbital

You're over a month late to spout that line.

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Is it really on par with snake handling? Maybe I'm reading this post wrong (and others)...but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

Have a cup of coffee before you go.

re: #7 Pelkabo

Your grade school nuns are correct. The Catholic Church gets some things right.

The GOP, the snake handling party. That's rich.

As opposed to the DNC - the snake oil party.

If you don't handle the snakes how do find and cut their heads off?

Does anyone remember what religion Nixon belonged too?

re: #14 Racer X

Quaker.

re: #6 Reno911

I've never met an actual snake handler, so I have no idea what they think of ID.

re: #14 Racer X

Does anyone remember what religion Nixon belonged too?

Society of Friends (aka "Quakers")

re: #1 Dianna

I could care less about my liberal neighbors, but I'm disturbed as all get-out about Jindal's falling for this hoax.

I am too. I was impressed with Jindal before I learned about this.

re: #14 Racer X

Quaker.

re: #14 Racer X

Quaker.

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

Not true but feel free to say so before you quit.

Slightly OT, but there already is a lot of clutter in science education. I know Michigan's standards include discussion of "people of diversity" who have contributed to science. Anyone else?

Awful. I can see starting a discussion of evolution by touching on different "beliefs" and problems with NS, but really folks. Just because you learn the ideas doesn't mean you have to believe in NS, but know what you don't "believe" in.

Irrespective of what you believe, ID does not belong in the political arena.

Conservatives are no more tied to ID than liberals are tied to abortion.

There are plenty of conservatives who do not buy into ID and there are plenty of liberals who are anti abortion.

re: #20 Dianna

Quaker.

Goose! Oh, wait I missread you folks posts.

re: #14 Racer X

Quaker is correct. His parents were very strict and devout Quakers, according to his bio on the Nixon Presidential Library site.

Re: '...a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.'

Serious question, not a debating ploy: Could you name some? (Should be biologists / related, extra chops for specialists in evolutionary biology.)

re: #18 Charles

I've been worried by some other things I've read that indicate he's a micro-manager, too.

Maybe with a little bit of seasoning, we'll feel a little better about him.

I have no intention of shaping my religious beliefs around the opinions of 'liberal neighbors'. I also have no intention of being regarded on the same level as a snake handler. I also have no intention of leaving the Republican Party.

Deal with it.

re: #18 Charles

I am too. I was impressed with Jindal before I learned about this.

Can you say Sarah Palin?
[Link: gov.state.ak.us...]

re: #16 Dianna

I've never met an actual snake handler, so I have no idea what they think of ID.

I remember THe Snake Handlers O'Shea on SNL.

re: #29 Nevergiveup

Can you say Sarah Palin?

Plus, she's a bit of a hottie, too!

My point is this: Nixon was perceived as a very bad president. His religious beliefs were largely ignored by the public.

re: #30 madisonsfriend

I never watched SNL much, so I don't know that bit.

“the snake-handling party.”

Snake charming does have a long history in India, perhaps it's a family tradition.

re: #1 Dianna
I followed the links. Looks like Jindal is a Catholic who follows some of the the right wing Evangelical methods. This is all real in the Church. I cannot explain or defend. I am less than thrilled with his political career right now. I will wait to see how he performs as a Governor.

re: #4 Dianna

It's just frustrating that we don't have any shining lights like a Reagan or a Teddy Roosevelt or a Fred Thompson (friggin tease) that we don't have to worry about.
Someone we can agree on and back to the maximum.

More than usual, all of the conservative / Republican / or just-not-a-damn-loony candidates have at least one giant flaw that makes us feel not-so-fresh about them.

They are real issues and have to be discussed, but it makes me sad sometimes.

Guess I'm pining for clarity.

By the way, Jindal has other problems. Apparently he wrote about demons, exorcisms and so on, from a first person perspective.

See this.

Ah yes, the fatal flaw has been uncovered.

re: #33 Racer X

It's not much of a point, I'm afraid, and I'm not sure how it applies.

re: #33 Racer X

My point is this: Nixon was perceived as a very bad president. His religious beliefs were largely ignored by the public.

I remember Mad Magazine mocking him as a Quaker.

re: #38 researchok

By the way, Jindal has other problems. Apparently he wrote about demons, exorcisms and so on, from a first person perspective.

See this.

So? what's your point?

re: #33 Racer X

My point is this: Nixon was perceived as a very bad president. His religious beliefs were largely ignored by the public.

I's give my left testicle for a Nixon now! Maybe?

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Is it really on par with snake handling? Maybe I'm reading this post wrong (and others)...but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

Please cite one well-known scientist who supports "intelligent design" ... who is NOT connected to the Discovery Institute.

I like Bobby Jindal, but this is kinda weird. Praise the lord and pass me that copperhead...

re: #37 Sifty

You might want to read more about Teddy before you cite him - he had some remarkably bad ideas and subscribed to some notions that don't feel terribly conservative to me.

However, I'd take him in a heart-beat over Woodrow Wilson, or either of the two major party candidates this time around.

If items of faith can be scientifically proved, they are no
longer faith. So, I do not judge others faith based beliefs.
But what I do know is my God and scientific truth cannot be
be incompatible. So, if it is proved that the earth is 6 billion years
old, I believe God could create it in 6 billion years as easily as 6
days.

re: #42 mama winger

So? what's your point?

Do we want Benny Hinn in Blair House?

re: #14 Racer X

Does anyone remember what religion Nixon belonged too?

He was a Quaker.

Charles,

Is it now the policy of this blog to mock and ridicule snake handlin' ?

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Mock openly? As opposed to what?

You get to openly promote religious indoctrination in school, your fellow humans are free to openly mock it. At least at LGF. Am I understanding right that you have an issue with that? Do you need someone to call Whine-1-1?

re: #9 buzzsawmonkey

If you're fat and conservative, does that mean you have both love- and snake handles?

I resemble that remark.

re: #38 researchok

If you have time, look for a book called American Excorcism. It's quite interesting on the number of people who believe in literal demonic possession, and in excorcism.

re: #47 Dianna

I like Teddy. Even though he got a little weird at times. And he was pretty big-government at times too.

It's been a while since the perfect human was up and walking about.

But mostly I like the movie The Wind and the Lion with Brian Keith and Sean Connery.

/If the libs can base their policy on children's books I can use movies.

So, let's make sure that instead of discussing it intelligently, we start name calling.

Like saying things like "hoax".

That lends lots of credibility to those arguing the "science".

If you're prepared to call ID a hoax, let's back it up intelligent argument, discussion, and reason.

Yeah, because I care so much about Liberal snears.

re: #7 Pelkabo

And the thing is, Jindal is Catholic, and the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution.

At least according to Wikipedia (and my grade school nuns).

And the Pope.

Regarding Guillermo Gonzalez, the prominent astronomer denied tenure for holding the wrong views on ID, does anyone know whether he was associated with the Discovery Institute before he was let go or only after?

re: #49 researchok

And what is with the Nehru jacket?

re: #50 Colonel Panik

He was a Quaker.

Personally I also thought of Nixon as an Anti-Communist.

re: #16 Dianna

I've had snakes draped on my shoulders in foreign countries. Hopefully the folks doing the draping were qualified snake handlers. I doubt that they cared much about Evolution and/or ID except as it impacted their ability to feed their families. Which brings me to my next point; the entire Evolution/ID strikes me as very boutique. Does it really matter what people think of ID and/or Evolution, as long as we are Free?

re: #51 Ringo the Gringo

I actually have seen film of snake handling. I don't feel like mocking those who do it. Medicating them, maybe, but not mocking.

re: #49 researchok

The Governor of Louisiana is a devout Catholic. Teachings regarding demons and excorcisms are included in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Last time I checked, it was a free country and people can believe what they wish.

Now, as to whether people would vote for someone ascribing to those beliefs, that is a question for the voters. However, I will not mock the man for believing what his Church teaches.

re: #40 Dianna

It's not much of a point, I'm afraid, and I'm not sure how it applies.

Religion should not be an issue for an elected government official. If it is, we have a problem.

re: #29 Nevergiveup

Can you say Sarah Palin?

I would be amazed if Ms Palin were NOT a creationist and/or ID proponent (like myself).

We're everywhere! We're everywhere!

Before this thread proceeds any further, let's all join hands and sing.

re: #55 Sifty

/If the libs can base their policy on children's books I can use movies.

If you have to base policy on movies, that's a good one!

re: #64 mama winger
Exactly right mama.

re: #14 Racer X

Does anyone remember what religion Nixon belonged too?

Racer -

And Patricia Ryan Nixon was...?

-S-

I sure hope this guy doesn't get picked as JM's running-mate. Not so much because of his ID views, but due to the fact he lacks experience, and moreso because it is sure to sour some folks for whom this is a majorly important issue. Perhaps a deal breaker.

I think we all know who I'm talking about. ;)

re: #56 Poopshoot

You're over a month late.

re: #63 Dianna

I saw one too, I would love to get my hands on it, but never could find it.

re: #49 researchok

Do we want Benny Hinn in Blair House?

Absolutely. It'd be hilarious to watch him chasing big-busted women around the White House while that silly music plays.

(oh, "Hinn", sorry)

(Plus JFK and Bubba did that already)

re: #70 Dr. Shalit

Racer -

And Patricia Ryan Nixon was...?

-S-

Ya know, nobody said we were getting a test today?

I know how to properly pronounce Derbyshire (DARB-ish-er), but how do you pronounce Jindal?

re: #59 jc59

Go look at Expelled: Exposed.

re: #74 Occasional Reader

LOL!

If you lose your job as a scientist because of your ID views and end up making a living with the Discovery Institute, does this make you a hack?

re: #76 Dar ul Harb

I know how to properly pronounce Derbyshire (DARB-ish-er), but how do you pronounce Jindal?

Finished.

re: #51 Ringo the Gringo

Charles,

Is it now the policy of this blog to mock and ridicule snake handlin' ?

Only if you can't find someone to "handle yer snake" for you.

I say we give school-children a choice to handle snakes as an alternative to studying ID.

re: #77 Dianna

Go look at Expelled: Exposed.

The movie is unclear on this point.

re: #62 Reno911

Well, since I think reason is very important, and that ID is an attempt to short-cut reason and obfuscate the scientific method, it matters a lot.

Freedom requires reason, and reason requires good information. It's hard to think clearly when you don't have the tools.

re: #82 Salem

I say we give school-children a choice to handle snakes as an alternative to studying ID.

I used to play with my snake all the time as a little kid?

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Ya know, nobody said we were getting a test today?

Perhaps the reason why Former Pres. Nixon opened up as much as he did to MONICA CROWLEY - a Patricia, Jr. in his controlled orbit.

-S-

re: #65 Racer X

If ID is religion, then what's it doing in a science classroom?

No, I'm sorry, this isn't something we can shrug at.

re: #64 mama winger

Teachings regarding demons and excorcisms are included in the teachings of the Catholic Church

Ah, they've tended to de-emphasize that stuff for the last century or so.

I mean is it:

DJINN-dull?

GIN-doll?

Jindle?

Does it rhyme with spindle or Ken doll?

Just don't cling to your snakes.

re: #85 Nevergiveup

I used to play with my snake all the time as a little kid?

Then you can advance straight to English Lit.

re: #64 mama winger

The Governor of Louisiana is a devout Catholic. Teachings regarding demons and excorcisms are included in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Last time I checked, it was a free country and people can believe what they wish.

Now, as to whether people would vote for someone ascribing to those beliefs, that is a question for the voters. However, I will not mock the man for believing what his Church teaches.

I don't care about his religious beliefs. They are his beliefs- and they are private beliefs. If those beliefs reinforce his ethics and morality, all the better.

How would you feel about a candidate who had a vision and claimed that God hated the Catholic Church, or Jews, or Mormons or Presbyterians and then wrote about it?

re: #63 Dianna

re: #73 jones

snake handlin' an' strychnine drinkin'

re: #83 jc59

Not the movie, the website. Here.

re: #87 Dr. Shalit

Perhaps the reason why Former Pres. Nixon opened up as much as he did to MONICA CROWLEY - a Patricia, Jr. in his controlled orbit.

-S-

They were both Christian Scientists?

re: #80 Nevergiveup

Finished.

NGU -

"GHINN - DAHL" - That is all.

-S-

re: #73 jones

And so, you shall!

re: #96 Nevergiveup

NGU -

Don't Think So.

-S-

BIG HERPETOMANIPULATORS ARE RIPPING US OFF!

One of the rotating titles at LGF is, "You know you're over the target when you're taking flak."

But I've learned that another important lesson is, "You know you're over the target when people demand that you stop posting about it."

I am not going to get killed because he believes in ID.
But I might get killed because the man who would be president
believes we can reason with unreasonable people. So he believes in
ID, yawn.

re: #88 Dianna

If ID is religion, then what's it doing in a science classroom?

No, I'm sorry, this isn't something we can shrug at.

Sorry - I am not making my point very well. If Jindal is making his religion an issue (by promoting ID), then voters should in fact be concerned.

re: #89 Occasional Reader

Ah, they've tended to de-emphasize that stuff for the last century or so.

The more liberal wing of the church, yes. The more conservative or evangelical wing, not so much. It is for instance quite present in the Catholic Charismatic movement. Gov. Jindal as I understand it leans more this way. Don't quote me on that last part - it's an impression more than anything else.

I hate to whine but can we talk about the podophages on the Left?

I agree that Bobby Jindal is a non-starter for the next presidential election. He's not what the Republicans need.

re: #69 snowcrash

Exactly right mama.

Seconded!

re: #94 BignJames

A start, not the one I saw, but they are good.

Thanks.

re: #93 researchok

How would you feel about a candidate who had a vision and claimed that God hated the Catholic Church, or Jews, or Mormons or Presbyterians and then wrote about it?

Has that happened?

re: #94 BignJames

That's one!

re: #64 mama winger

Amen Mama Winger. It is amazing how faith is now mocked diligently by some posters on LGF.

re: #102 NonNativeTexan

I am not going to get killed because he believes in ID.
But I might get killed because the man who would be president
believes we can reason with unreasonable people. So he believes in
ID, yawn.

Huh? If Obama gets elected because Jindal believes in ID, then you could get killed.

We don't need a faith healer running for president.

re: #106 Killgore Trout

I agree that Bobby Jindal is a non-starter for the next presidential election. He's not what the Republicans need.

By all means lets tear the man to shreds before he's even out of the gate.

Ouija Board?

I don't have a problem with Catholic's believing in doctrine promulgated by the head of their Church. They have a tradition that is polar. For a young lay person to participate in an exorcism I would think is more of a function of youthful imagination. Who can tell what heals a person? Love does affect people. His questions at the time appear to be unguided with an attempt to understand. I would assume he is smarter now. Let's hope he is not Pat Buchanan smart.

Smelling sulfur? How does he know it's not just his imagination? Or smell memory being excited by the emotions of the event? Or some clever participant providing the odor. Ever been around angry people and physically felt the anger move into you? The opposite also happens.

The mind is a vast ocean of unknowns. A young person is likely not to know it well until experience and failures make them recognize what is viable and what is not.

For the unexpecting spiritual soul we can expect them to feel and interpet their spiritual trappings as part of a growth process.

ID -- it's a bad idea. Anyone incorporating it into their reasoning will eventually smell like a skunk. It's exactly the same reasoning process as global warming supporters and troofers find appealing.

There do seem to be systems of thought on the conservative side of life that are just plain bad thinking. The people who cling to them intellectually then hide their real attachment to the idea which is some underlying unpopular religous condition.

If these scientists became affiliated with the Discovery Institute after committing professional suicide by coming out of the closet, then the argument that only Discovery Institute hacks promote intelligent design is weak.

If that is the case, then only Discovery Institute scientists promote ID because that's the only place they'll ever find work. It's like being sent to Siberia.

re: #113 Killgore Trout

We don't need a faith healer running for president.

Is he a faith healer?

re: #101 Charles

But I've learned that another important lesson is, "You know you're over the target when people demand that you stop posting about it."

Too broad a rule, IMHO.

re: #103 Racer X

He and the entire Louisiana legislature!

re: #98 mikalm

Thanks to you too.

re: #114 mama winger

By all means lets tear the man to shreds before he's even out of the gate.

He's not going anywhere. It's best we acknowledge this now and move on.

re: #118 Occasional Reader

Too broad a rule, IMHO.

No rule. Just an observation.

re: #109 mama winger

Not yet, but with Obama, who knows?

re: #117 mama winger

....Jindal narrated a bizarre story of a personal encounter with a demon, in which he participated in an exorcism with a group of college friends. And not only did they cast out the supernatural spirit that had possessed his friend, Jindal wrote that he believes that their ritual may well have cured her cancer.

re: #121 Killgore Trout

He's not going anywhere. It's best we acknowledge this now and move on.

That's what you said about McCain in relation to Rudy IIRC.

re: #44 Charles

Please cite one well-known scientist who supports "intelligent design" ... who is NOT connected to the Discovery Institute.

Dunno about well-known, but I'm a scientist, and well, pretty well-educated, I'd say. Been published.

I'm not associated with the Discovery Institute. I'm data-driven.

There's no more reason to call ID a "hoax" as there is to call evolution a "hoax". Both are theories. You can find observational evidence to support both.

I'm afraid resorting to the same "the debate is over" tactics, i.e., calling something a 'hoax' because you either don't understand, choose not to understand or refuse to understand is just the kind of thing used by the global warming salesmen.

I'd like to see better.

re: #27 Dianna

I wish he would micro-manage the Legislature a little more.

re: #123 Dianna

Not yet, but with Obama, who knows?

LOL :)

good one!

re: #104 mama winger

The more liberal wing of the church, yes. The more conservative or evangelical wing, not so much. It is for instance quite present in the Catholic Charismatic movement. Gov. Jindal as I understand it leans more this way. Don't quote me on that last part - it's an impression more than anything else.

Charismatics are a pretty fringe group within Catholicism.

Mama, I was raised Catholic, and we never had anything - zip, zero - about demons and exorcisms.

re: #111 rightwingva

Amen Mama Winger. It is amazing how faith is now mocked diligently by some posters on LGF.

like maybe islam...or santeria

re: #101 Charles

Rotating title nomination:

re: #107 brickthruplateglasswindow

Dump the Pooh, embrace the Taz.

(from previous thread).

re: #103 Racer X

Sorry - I am not making my point very well. If Jindal is making his religion an issue (by promoting ID), then voters should in fact be concerned.

Racer X -

If BOBBY JINDAL can turn LA around, I do not MUCH care HOW he does it, so long as he does Not Violate the Us Constitution. That is the situation in LA.

-S-

re: #113 Killgore Trout

It's Obama who's attending (or at least attended last Sunday) a church that believes in faith healing. I don't know that he does, himself, though.

re: #124 Killgore Trout

So?

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Wow. Faith Healer. Nice loaded statement. I believe if you interviewed our current President, you would find that his faith is what many would called "evangelical" and "fundamental", as he believes in all fundamental tenets of Christian doctrine. One could even (easily) state that President Bush is a fundamentalist, evangelical Christian. So, exactly how has his faith impacted you over the last 7 years?

re: #125 mama winger

That's what you said about McCain in relation to Rudy IIRC.

I don't remember saying McCain didn't have a chance. But I thought Rudy did. I was wrong.

re: #101 Charles

One of the rotating titles at LGF is, "You know you're over the target when you're taking flak."

But I've learned that another important lesson is, "You know you're over the target when people demand that you stop posting about it."

Reminds me of the eurofascist threads, frankly.

Re: #5

I'll check back later for the list of biologists, but have to sign off for now. 0500 comes early.

re: #117 mama winger

He at least participated in what he believed was an excorcism. I have no idea what to make of that.

#112 HelloDare
Precisely my point. If people place more importance on his
believing in ID, over US/Israel safety, then that is their error, not
Bobby's.

re: #129 Occasional Reader

Wow. Then you obviously went to quite the unique Catholic church. I guess when Christ cast out a demon, that was a pretty nice fairy tale in your church, correct?

re: #126 Poopshoot

There's no more reason to call ID a "hoax" as there is to call evolution a "hoax". Both are theories. You can find observational evidence to support both.

"You're not a real scientist, are you?"

-MST3K

I am religious, but I don't want people teaching religion in school. Many certainly would not want my beliefs creeping into the curriculum, likewise I don't want there. Things religious don't have a place in school unless it is a religious private school.

Lets talk about this unintelligent design: How does the fat bastard's energy consumption go UP 10%?
[Link: tennesseepolicy.org...]

re: #126 Poopshoot

Dunno about well-known, but I'm a scientist, and well, pretty well-educated, I'd say. Been published.

Are you in bio? Are you at Grove City?

re: #64 mama winger

Amen Mama Winger. It is amazing how faith is now mocked diligently by some posters on LGF.

I've always known that I am more socially conservative then most lizards. But that's why I like this place......diversity of thought is welcome and encouraged. Like others here, but posts always get deleted from liberal web sites...and these are not combative posts, just challenging the left with facts.

But I don't like the tone of some of the anti-traditional Christan thought here. Recall threads from way back on Mel Gibson, abortion and gay rights.

re: #126 Poopshoot

How do you test ID?

re: #137 Sharmuta

Reminds me of the eurofascist threads, frankly.

Well, don't sell the Schiavo threads too short, either.

re: #129 Occasional Reader

Charismatics are a pretty fringe group within Catholicism.

Not as much as you might think. It is also not limited to just the charismatics. The traditionalists within the Church, including the Pope himself, have addressed these issues.

Look - I'm not here to argue the validity of the doctrine. I am saying that what the man believes is his own business.

re: #133 Dianna

The press would even turn on Obama if he claimed to be performing rituals to cure people of cancer.

Has anybody investigated the church Obama goes to in Washington D.C.? Wonder if it's BLT.

I was raised Catholic too. And exorcism was NOT in the curriculum.

re: #143 Occasional Reader

HA!

Okay smarty pants Charles, answer me these simple questions:

1. Who lit the fuse for the big bang?

2. If you are traveling at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they shine?

Bingo, Intelligent Design!

re: #127 Moody Leo

Legislatures are very odd beasts.

re: #142 rightwingva

Wow. Then you obviously went to quite the unique Catholic church. I guess when Christ cast out a demon, that was a pretty nice fairy tale in your church, correct?

So Jindal has the same standing as Jesus?

re: #126 Poopshoot

Poopshoot is an awfully odd nic for a scientist to pick. Are you a sanitation engineer, per chance?

Just askin'...

re: #156 Gordon Marock

Okay smarty pants Charles, answer me these simple questions:

1. Who lit the fuse for the big bang?

2. If you are traveling at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they shine?

Bingo, Intelligent Design!

1) Gandolf
2) yes but backwards

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Is it really on par with snake handling? Maybe I'm reading this post wrong (and others)...but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

A lot of the same drank the kool-aid at Jonestown.
A lot of the same are scientologists.

Science belongs in a science class.
Intelligent design is NOT science.
Therefore, Intelligent Design does NOT belong in a science class.

Go here to see adults screwing with children's minds:

re: #44 Charles

Please cite one well-known scientist who supports "intelligent design" ... who is NOT connected to the Discovery Institute.

Charles, as this is your sandbox, I will tread lightly. Second, I do not know how high you have set the bar for "well known," but, according to a less-than-friendly wikipedia entry, this man was both a Fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry and a three-star general.

However, I was impressed years ago with the brilliant mind and irenic spirit of (the now deceased) A. E. Wilder-Smith -- a Brit with two earned doctorates in the hard sciences. He was an open creationist -- and paid a price for it in the academic world.

FYI only.

Regards,

gunjam

re: #101 Charles

One of the rotating titles at LGF is, "You know you're over the target when you're taking flak."

But I've learned that another important lesson is, "You know you're over the target when people demand that you stop posting about it."

Politely tell them to take a $#@! hike, and keep spreading the word.

re: #153 HelloDare

Has anybody investigated the church Obama goes to in Washington D.C.? Wonder if it's BLT.

A sandwich?

re: #135 rightwingva

He's a Methodist. Only the left thinks he's a wild-eyed crank.

re: #10 Nevergiveup

Have a cup of coffee before you go.

Hmmmm... sounds like shut up or get out to me.

G'nite, folks.

re: #144 coquimbojoe

I am religious, but I don't want people teaching religion in school. Many certainly would not want my beliefs creeping into the curriculum, likewise I don't want there. Things religious don't have a place in school unless it is a religious private school.

"Qoqui" -

Thanks - all 'y'all have it right.

-S-

re: #141 NonNativeTexan

#112 HelloDare
Precisely my point. If people place more importance on his
believing in ID, over US/Israel safety, then that is their error, not
Bobby's.

So you'll be right and Obama will win the election. A pyrrhic victory if I ever heard one.

re: #154 Charles

It is still around. Drudge had a story about an increased # of excorcists being trained.

[Link: www.smh.com.au...]

re: #139 buzzsawmonkey

I don't like intelligent design, but I care less that Jindal might buy into it than whether he believes that government money should support the teaching of it.

He can believe what he wants for himself, but if he is not about to try and divert federal money to schools for teaching it, the belief is not relevant to his politics.

In other words, his understanding of the role of the government is more important than his own personal beliefs, regardless of what they are.

This is why I mostly lurk. Other Lizards are much more eloquent than I am.

So a Rabbi, a Priest, an Imam and a gorilla walk into a bar and ask if anyone had heard the latest on Mel Gibson, Terry Schiavo, gay rights, abortion or Pope Pius....

re: #164 madisonsfriend

A sandwich?

Now, that's a sacrament I can get behind!

There is a lot of emotion concerning the teaching of ID in schools, and how that might harm our children and their future. I think it is a vallid debate.

I would like to expand that debate into the areas where government schools ARE ALREADY teaching things they have no business teaching - things that are harming our children RIGHT NOW.

Revisionist history for one. America the Great Satan for two. Global warming for three. Moral equivalence, for four.

Can I get an amen? :)

re: #156 Gordon Marock

Okay smarty pants Charles, answer me these simple questions:

1. Who lit the fuse for the big bang?

2. If you are traveling at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they shine?

Bingo, Intelligent Design!

1. The bottom turtle.

2. The light stacks up in the headlight until you have a big bang.

Bingo unintelligible design!

Yes, an Algore electricty use thread could be fun.

Found a MSM site on that today, and Algore defenders say he has a right to use 20 times more electricty then commoners cuz he works from home and purchases carbon offsets. Martin Luther would have something to say about buying your way out of guilt.

re: #157 Dianna

Tell me about it, ours right now is like watching a bad horror movie, you're hiding your eyes behind hands, but you just have to peek every once in a while to see what's going on.

re: #164 madisonsfriend

A sandwich?

Bacon Liberation Theology.

re: #161 guitarguy

A lot of the same drank the kool-aid at Jonestown.
A lot of the same are scientologists.

Science belongs in a science class.
Intelligent design is NOT science.
Therefore, Intelligent Design does NOT belong in a science class.

Go here to see adults screwing with children's minds:
[Link: youtube.com...]

There was no silverware in medieval times, hence their IS no silverware AT Medieval Times.

But you have Pepsi?

re: #134 mama winger

So?

Wow.

Lovesya, mama, but we really have to part ways on this one. I would not want someone who narrates a story like that in the White House. It's... just plain nuts.

So a Rabbi, a Priest, an Imam and a gorilla walk into a bar and ask if anyone had heard the latest on Mel Gibson, Terry Schiavo, gay rights, abortion or Pope Pius....

And Gordon shows up in a pink tank

re: #171 WriterMom

So a Rabbi, a Priest, an Imam and a gorilla walk into a bar and ask if anyone had heard the latest on Mel Gibson, Terry Schiavo, gay rights, abortion or Pope Pius....

:)

re: #145 Nevergiveup

Lets talk about this unintelligent design: How does the fat bastard's energy consumption go UP 10%?
[Link: tennesseepolicy.org...]

But it's green energy, so that's fine. /Gore's flacks

re: #179 Occasional Reader

Wow.

Lovesya, mama, but we really have to part ways on this one. I would not want someone who narrates a story like that in the White House. It's... just plain nuts.

Call me nuts then. I've been in those same situations as a pastor's wife.

re: #180 Dave the.....

And Gordon shows up in a pink tank

Go on . . .

re: #179 Occasional Reader

Maybe Winnie the Pooh a better story for the White House? LOL. Jesssss kidding....

re: #174 jcm

1. The bottom turtle.

2. The light stacks up in the headlight until you have a big bang.

Bingo unintelligible design!

Is it Genesis or Psalms that talks about turtles all the way down? I am frantically searching my Bible dictionary...... (What about the Snapping vs. red-ear slider schism?)

re: #177 HelloDare

Bacon Liberation Theology.

This is what I was going to practice at one of the Arab Embassies in Dc- haven't got there yet.

re: #158 madisonsfriend

Umm... you statement is illogical. He sounds like a Christian who encountered a situation where he followed Luke 9:1-2 RSV (and numerous other passages that address this). I guess if he was caught praying for the sick, he would be a crank too, right?

re: #154 Charles

Generally, the position of exorcist is left open. Bishops are supposed to have one, but...well, on the occasions an exorcism has been performed and has gone badly, it's been very bad for the church.

I'm sure Killgore has a list of references at his finger-tips.

re: #142 rightwingva

Wow. Then you obviously went to quite the unique Catholic church. I guess when Christ cast out a demon, that was a pretty nice fairy tale in your church, correct?

No, but nor were we encouraged to seek demons around us, or to blame our problems (or anyone else's) on "demonic possession". I'd prefer we stay clear of the Middle Ages, thanks.

Man, that is one whacked-out curriculum that's shaking out in the Big Easy. Exorcism, Snake-Handling, and what next? Thumb-Screwing Heretics 101?

Only a complete idiot will call intelligent design a hoax.
The existence of God cannot be proven one way or the other.

#184 Gordon

I've been light here the last few months....do you know the famous Gordon (aka Nodorg) that used to habitat here?

re: #173 mama winger

There is a lot of emotion concerning the teaching of ID in schools, and how that might harm our children and their future. I think it is a vallid debate.

I would like to expand that debate into the areas where government schools ARE ALREADY teaching things they have no business teaching - things that are harming our children RIGHT NOW.

Revisionist history for one. America the Great Satan for two. Global warming for three. Moral equivalence, for four.

Can I get an amen? :)

An Amen and a Bingo!

re: #173 mama winger

amen,
i agree it is very dangerous for that anti-american propaganda to be forced on children in school.

re: #192 Salem

Man, that is one whacked-out curriculum that's shaking out in the Big Easy. Exorcism, Snake-Handling, and what next? Thumb-Screwing Heretics 101?

Voodoo and nipple clamps first. Can't walk before you run....

re: #158 madisonsfriend

I like the scene in Acts: "Jesus we know, and Paul we know; but who are you?"

re: #154 Charles

I was raised Catholic too. And exorcism was NOT in the curriculum.

Charles -

I grew up in a neighborhood that was "Lefkowitz, Fino & Gilhooley" with a gratuitous "Molnar" in the mix. All ethnic "caucasians" in one way or another. "Exorcism" was never part of the mix - at least publicly. Private beliefs might have been another thing.

-S-

re: #180 Dave the.....

Watch on the Rhine reference?

re: #173 mama winger

There is a lot of emotion concerning the teaching of ID in schools, and how that might harm our children and their future. I think it is a vallid debate.

I would like to expand that debate into the areas where government schools ARE ALREADY teaching things they have no business teaching - things that are harming our children RIGHT NOW.

Revisionist history for one. America the Great Satan for two. Global warming for three. Moral equivalence, for four.

Can I get an amen? :)

Wave your hands y'all . Can I get a witness?
Lawd Amighty we found common ground!

According to the same essay, Jindal also believed the exorcism cured his friend's cancer. Good grief. On one side of the political spectrum we've got nutters like this in office and on the other we've got kooks worshiping Mother Gaia, Goddesses, and government.

We're screwed. My Ouija board told me so.

re: #202 opnion

Wave your hands y'all . Can I get a witness?
Lawd Amighty we found common ground!

Now yer talkin' my language !

hahaha :)

The ID crowd may not be at the top of the class but they're WAY ahead of the AGW crowd.

I don't think this (or the exorcism) SHOULD disqualify him but it probably does.

Running mates are usually selected very defensively. They can help you a little but can hurt you a lot.

re: #173 mama winger

There is a lot of emotion concerning the teaching of ID in schools, and how that might harm our children and their future. I think it is a vallid debate.

I would like to expand that debate into the areas where government schools ARE ALREADY teaching things they have no business teaching - things that are harming our children RIGHT NOW.

Revisionist history for one. America the Great Satan for two. Global warming for three. Moral equivalence, for four.

Can I get an amen? :)

Yes, yes you may. Amen, sister.

re: #18 Charles

I was pretty impressed with this website until it devolved into this senseless bashing of an alternate theory of the origins of life.

I wonder why Jindle quit his med. school track...

re: #194 Dave the.....

I learned of him very very shortly after my first post and I was strafed with some nasty suspicious comments. Alas, I am not he.

re: #188 rightwingva

No, praying for the sick is fine. A miracle Christ performed and you think Jindal did it too. I have a real problem with people who claim to perform "rituals" that cast out demons(because I think that is nonsense) or cure someone's disease- that is hubris. And when I pray for someone who was sick-I don't believe I cured them or that my prayer cured them.

re: #206 coquimbojoe

Yes, yes you may. Amen, sister.

The Hallelujah Choir! LOL

re: #199 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

I grew up in a neighborhood that was "Lefkowitz, Fino & Gilhooley" with a gratuitous "Molnar" in the mix. All ethnic "caucasians" in one way or another. "Exorcism" was never part of the mix - at least publicly. Private beliefs might have been another thing.

-S-

I'm gonna assume then that when a mom in your neighborhood was beating the devil out of her willful son, you are not counting that as an exorcism?

re: #186 coquimbojoe

Is it Genesis or Psalms that talks about turtles all the way down? I am frantically searching my Bible dictionary...... (What about the Snapping vs. red-ear slider schism?)

Lost Gospel, Letter to Chelodina. Personally I'm Eastern Long-necked Turtle, pretty fundamental in turtledom. I'm not to fond of the Snapping sect, I won't go so far as to call them a cult.

A long long time ago, LGF had a thread on a moonbat protest. The lefties brought a large cardboard pink tank to said event. It was a running joke here for a very long time.

And Gordon? Anyone here for a year or more knows who I am talking about.

mama winger-I agree with you that there are many troubling subjects and influences in the public school system here...multicult brainwashing, environmental hooey, moral equivalence, political causes disguised as community service, and the list goes on...

re: #186 coquimbojoe

Is it Genesis or Psalms that talks about turtles all the way down? I am frantically searching my Bible dictionary...... (What about the Snapping vs. red-ear slider schism?)

I think that the bottom turtle was named Mack. He is the one that called out Yertle the Turtle I believe.

re: #173 mama winger

You can!

AMEN!

re: #208 Dan G.

I wonder why Jindle quit his med. school track...

Might have been a D in Organic Chem?

re: #204 mama winger

Now yer talkin' my language !

hahaha :)

Word! Sox sweep this weekend. See I had to spoil it.

re: #191 Occasional Reader

Didn't know that Jesus lived in the Middle Ages. Wow. Didn't see any statements that this individual was treating a psychiatric illness. I am not a Catholic (and find it amusing that I seem to know more about Catholicism than some Catholics here) but I will defend Christian doctrine. Ridicule away, it makes no difference to me :-). The Holy See employees many, many exorcists. It is doctrine of the Catholic church. It is has not been *removed* from the Church. As a matter of fact, last year the Catholic church held a huge training for exorcists on staff.

Can someone please perform an exorcism on the Lakers before the second half starts?

re: #188 rightwingva

He sounds like a Christian who encountered a situation where he followed Luke 9:1-2 RSV

He sounds like a guy living in the late 20th century who, on encountering friend who was having a nervous breakdown, decided that it was being caused by a scary demon that had taken possession of her.

I would prefer not to have someone who believes this sort of thing within that proverbial heartbeat of the presidency, thanks.

re: #218 Nevergiveup

Or, why go through all the rigors of premed when you can just say some words at the patient and cure cancer that way?

re: #217 Dianna

You can!

AMEN!

We've got quite an Amen Corner going here :)

re: #221 itellu3times

Can someone please perform an exorcism on the Lakers before the second half starts?

Doesn't look to good for the boys from LaLa land does it.

Catholics have a long history of picking and choosing what works for them regardless of official Church doctrine. Good example would be practicing birth control. Mainstream American Catholics know what is in the doctrine but not all make it a centerpiece of faith.

re: #219 opnion

Word! Sox sweep this weekend. See I had to spoil it.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

His Royal Stinkyness has been around...

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

Not a theory.

Sorry.

Not senseless.

re: #221 itellu3times

Can someone please perform an exorcism on the Lakers before the second half starts?

Start praying for a miracle....
your only hope!
;-P

re: #113 Killgore Trout

We don't need a faith healer running for president.

Tell that to the Democrats. Revrun'd Obama's Travellin' Salvation show is goin' to stop the oceans from risin'! Don't you believe, Brotha Trout?

re: #156 Gordon Marock

2. If you are traveling at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they shine?

That one's easy. No, the photons all sort of pile up in front of the ship. You have to climb outside with a shovel, scoop 'em up and sort of fling 'em forward, to see where you're going.

re: #193 Watookal

Then what's it doing in a science class?

re: #193 Watookal

Only a complete idiot will call intelligent design a hoax.
The existence of God cannot be proven one way or the other.

That is where faith steps in and "reason" steps out.

re: #95 Dianna

Not the movie, the website. Here.

He was a distinguished scientist before his career took a wrong turn. It seems he arrived at his views on intelligent on his own. He was not bought and paid for by the Discovery Institute.

re: #233 Occasional Reader

That one's easy. No, the photons all sort of pile up in front of the ship. You have to climb outside with a shovel, scoop 'em up and sort of fling 'em forward, to see where you're going.

I have a snowblower.

re: #223 Occasional Reader

He sounds like a guy living in the late 20th century who, on encountering friend who was having a nervous breakdown, decided that it was being caused by a scary demon that had taken possession of her.

I would prefer not to have someone who believes this sort of thing within that proverbial heartbeat of the presidency, thanks.

Agreed. I thought we left the Dark Ages behind. But if someone who's being touted as a possible VP candidate believes this, apparently I was wrong.

re: #221 itellu3times

Can someone please perform an exorcism on the Lakers before the second half starts?

I'm snake handlin' as fast as I can.

re: #5 orbital

Sooo...am I understanding right that the official positon of this website is to openly mock intelligent design?

Is it really on par with snake handling? Maybe I'm reading this post wrong (and others)...but a lot of very well known, educated, and highly intelligent scientists back the intelligent design theory.

Intelligent scientists and Intelligent Design, and those who quote them are an oxymoron. Strange how many people keep questioning that; reminds me of the moths and beetles that are presently trying to break my window to get at my computer light.

re: #221 itellu3times

Can someone please perform an exorcism on the Lakers before the second half starts?

THE POWER OF PHIL JACKSON COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF PHIL JACKSON COMPELS YOU!

Snakehandlers

re: #242 Ojoe

Snakehandlers

Hey! That's my Uncle Ernie!

Even if McCain doesn't pick Jindal, he's likely to pick some other idiot. If you assume that McCain won't pick anyone who might outshine him, who the cameras might favor, what's the best that can be hoped for?

re: #237 mama winger

I have a snowblower.

Hey, this is NOT the Frosty the Snowman gay pr0n thread, young lady.

re: #207 windbag

Tell me how you test for ID.

re: #212 Nevergiveup

I'm gonna assume then that when a mom in your neighborhood was beating the devil out of her willful son, you are not counting that as an exorcism?

"ngu" -

Nope, especially with MOLNAR whose mom was a Widow. They were righteous "whoopings" at the time. Generally deserved. Mine came from dad - he who where his hand hit - "Grass Didn't Grow No More." And for the record - DAD was scarce with hitting - wonder why - NOT!

-S-

re: #207 windbag

I was pretty impressed with this website until it devolved into this senseless bashing of an alternate theory of the origins of life.

Please find me a site that concurs with your beliefs 100% of the time. I don't care about the ID debates, but I either learn from them or ignore them. Either way, I still get quite a bit out of LGF that I agree with.

I would hardly say the bashing is 'senseless', people believe differently. If a bunch of us Christians got together and bashed another idea/theory/belief/tradition, we might believe it may benefit us, but others might see it as senseless. Often I don't like the tenor of the anti -ID arguments, but hey I get over it. It doesn't change my faith. Senselessness is in the eye of the beholder.

re: #220 rightwingva

re: #239 HelloDare

I'm snake handlin' as fast as I can.

You can go blind doing that.

(someone had to say it)

re: #227 snowcrash

Catholics have a long history of picking and choosing what works for them regardless of official Church doctrine. Good example would be practicing birth control. Mainstream American Catholics know what is in the doctrine but not all make it a centerpiece of faith.

So; what then is the centerpeice of the faith?

re: #246 Dianna

Tell me how you test for ID.

With a snake.

The Lakers are sloppy, flop..

re: #241 Occasional Reader

THE POWER OF PHIL JACKSON COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF PHIL JACKSON COMPELS YOU!

The power of Phil Jackson was alot stronger when St. Micheal was at his side!

re: #1 Dianna

I could care less about my liberal neighbors, but I'm disturbed as all get-out about Jindal's falling for this hoax.

The hoax was appealing to me at first until I watched one of it's primary proponents on a TV show. He was a smart person that didn't make a good impression. However since I have an innate belief that there is intelligence behind evolution their choice of theory titles let them in the door. Smart people go for this kind of idea because it has traction of some type and it vaguely reminds them of something in their backgound. There is no harm in that. What you want from Medved and Jindal if they want to be leaders is a more thorough review of ID and it's criticism's.

[Link: www.talkdesign.org...]

"ID is NOT religion!"

[mock ID]

"Stop mocking my religion!"

re: #245 Occasional Reader

Hey, this is NOT the Frosty the Snowman gay pr0n thread, young lady.

Shoot. Must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

Frankly, I'd rather hang out with Jindal than any of John Derbyshire's friends.

Life will be so much easier when we all believe the same things.

J/K (please don't throw me under the bus!) ;D

re: #227 snowcrash

Catholics have a long history of picking and choosing what works for them regardless of official Church doctrine. Good example would be practicing birth control. Mainstream American Catholics know what is in the doctrine but not all make it a centerpiece of faith.

Catholics? All religions pretty much - all people even faithful or faithless.

The desperation for some to find proof of God springs from the doubt that the human brain instinctively casts upon the things we believe in. When that doubt causes faith to fail, the recognition of the possibility of enternal oblivion causes fear to well up uncontrollably, and sends some scrambling to find some reassurance. Once reassured, many wish to close off that dark corner of their mind that seeks to question everyting. That questioning aspect of the mind is man's (and womyn's) greatest asset.

re: #252 HelloDare

With a snake.

That's IQ.

re: #251 Naso Tang

So; what then is the centerpeice of the faith?

[Link: www.christianitysite.com...]

re: #220 rightwingva

Didn't know that Jesus lived in the Middle Ages. Wow. Didn't see any statements that this individual was treating a psychiatric illness. I am not a Catholic (and find it amusing that I seem to know more about Catholicism than some Catholics here) but I will defend Christian doctrine. Ridicule away, it makes no difference to me :-). The Holy See employees many, many exorcists. It is doctrine of the Catholic church. It is has not been *removed* from the Church. As a matter of fact, last year the Catholic church held a huge training for exorcists on staff.

That is silly. (not you) There has never been a documented case of exorcism where the subject was not overly religious.
It is a mental thing.
The Devil can not steal your soul, He couldn't even start. There is no Devil at all , but the Devil in your heart." Colonial American saying

re: #251 Naso Tang

Eucharist

I can relate to John Derbyshire- I've had similar conversations with people who won't openly admit they have republican leanings because they don't want to be confused with the religious right. Like it or not- that's how people out there see it.

re: #225 mama winger

You listed a series of important concerns. I'll always say Amen to discussing them!

It's an 18 point lead- isn't that 6 + 6+ 6

Some might say they do not believe in evil spirits, but I doubt
many would immerse themselves into the "magic" of Haiti just to
prove it. Especially if it meant spending a couple of months there.