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Science in Zero G

Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:48:08 pm PDT

An LGF reader emailed a batch of great photos, along with an account of his trip aboard the Discovery Institute’s Zero G plane.

Oops! Did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant, “SpaceTEC.”

A few months ago I was selected as one of only 75 scientists, engineers, and technicians to take a new course in Microgravity. This course was created, with a grant from the Florida Job Authority and taught by SpaceTEC, to help aerospace workers understand the microgravity environment and to give us extra training to help us obtain new employment once the Shuttle program ends in 2010. We spent 2 weeks in class learning about microgravity, or more commonly known as “Zero Gravity”. Last Sunday we flew on ZeroG and got to float like an astronaut in microgravity. This plane does parabolas like NASA’s infamous “Vomit Comet”. No, I did not even get queasy.

It’s nothing like I’ve ever experienced before. I’ve jumped off things, jumped out of planes 15,000 feet up (nearly 3 miles), swam underwater, rode rollercoaster’s, etc and nothing I’ve experienced can come close to describe what it’s like to float in microgravity. It was a once in a lifetime experience.

At one time I got trapped in the middle of the plane. I couldn’t reach the walls or ceiling or floor. All I could do was float and flail around in vain. It was pretty funny. One other time, someone just barely tapped my foot sending me into a slow cartwheel unable to stop. Many other times I felt like a pinball in a pinball game. I would try to float gently and would get bumped by someone and go off in all kinds of different directions ricocheting off other people and walls.

Besides having fun floating, we had 3 experiments to do during our flight. One was to toss around a toy spaceship exploring the action/reaction phenomenon described in Newton’s Laws of Gravity. Our next experiment was to observe what less dense liquids do inside a bottle with more dense liquids during microgravity. We used oil and water in the bottle. The less dense liquid would eventually go to the middle of the bottle. Our last experiment was to open an actual International Space Station medical kit, put on gloves, and bandage an imaginary cut on a patient’s arm. Sounds easy eh? Well it isn’t. As I was putting on the gloves, I kept tumbling round and round. I got as far as wiping the fake wound with alcohol before we ran out of time.

Microgravity would last for about 30 seconds and then gravity would suddenly return. The coaches would warn us to get our feet pointed down, but many times you couldn’t do it in time. That’s when you would be on the ceiling weighing nothing and then a microsecond later you weigh 245 lbs and plummet to the floor in a heap. Gravity would grab us fat boys with a vengeance. I hit the floor pretty hard at times. We would then start to climb the parabola again and I would end up lying there weighing 1.8 times my weight (441 lbs) until the next episode of microgravity. The next day I was pretty sore but I bore it with pride.

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1 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:49:19pm

Cool. My type of thread.

2 Racer X  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:49:39pm

Ya know, gravity is just a theory.

/

3 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:50:14pm

What about zero G, ahhh, whoopie?

4 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:50:53pm

re: #2 Racer X

Ya know, gravity is just a theory.

/

Go take a flying leap.....
in the name of science of course.
;-P

5 rawmuse  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:51:32pm

I wonder if they make the Lizard with 2 backs in there...

6 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:51:59pm

re: #2 Racer X

Ya know, gravity is just a theory.

/

Until you fall off the ladder.

7 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:52:25pm

re: #3 jcm

What about zero G, ahhh, whoopie?

30 seconds?

8 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:52:48pm

re: #2 Racer X

Ya know, gravity is just a theory.

/

It's real, but we can't explain it.. that's a fact.

9 rabidsquirrel  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:52:58pm

I'm watching "The Universe" on the History Channel. The topic? Why, gravity, of course.

10 Syrah  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:15pm

I want to do that.

11 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:16pm

re: #9 rabidsquirrel

Darn! I wish I had cable.

12 Racer X  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:17pm

re: #4 jcm

I have experienced gravity from 12k feet up. It works. Thankfully the chute opened.

13 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:20pm

When was microgravity discovered and by whom?

14 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:26pm

What causes gravity?

15 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:42pm

I'd like to do that, but I'm not so sure about being in free-fall in a plane.

16 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:53:57pm

There is no gravity; The earth sucks.

17 rawmuse  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:54:11pm

re: #14 Ringo the Gringo

What causes gravity?

Bad music.

18 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:54:24pm

re: #14 Ringo the Gringo

We are actually unsure.

19 rabidsquirrel  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:54:46pm

re: #11 astronmr20

Darn! I wish I had cable.

Watching in high definition, to boot. Gotta love it. They even had a segment on the Zero G plane.

20 Tarkus289  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:54:55pm

al gore invented gravity.

21 Syrah  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:55:10pm

re: #5 rawmuse

I wonder if they make the Lizard with 2 backs in there...

That would be a very quick quicky.

22 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:55:37pm

Well, the NAS didn't launch this, although members of the NAS do work for Nasa.

It's the same with Discovery. Some prominent scientists are members who do excellent work in their fields.

One guy, Guillermo Gonzales has discovered planets, developed the concept of Galactic Habitable Zones, written astronomy textbooks, had the most cited astronomy paper one year, and, oh yeah, was denied tenure at his university solely for his views on Intelligent Design.

23 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:08pm

re: #21 Syrah

That would be a very quick quicky.

Well, either quick, or a rather unpleasant coitus interruptus.

24 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:09pm

For more info you can check out [Link: www.microgravity.com...]

25 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:26pm

re: #12 Racer X

I have experienced gravity from 12k feet up. It works. Thankfully the chute opened.

I took a tumble off a 3 story building. What the say is true, the fall under the influence of gravity is not the problem. It the damn earth getting in the way and causing a rather sudden stop.

I landed in a bush, and suffered scratches. LUCKY.

26 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:27pm

I would love to do that someday...

27 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:38pm

re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

you had to

28 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:43pm

Ooops, re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

Small error in my last post:
instead of textbooks, read a textbook

29 rawmuse  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:56:44pm

I feel nauseous...

30 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:00pm

re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

Well, the NAS didn't launch this, although members of the NAS do work for Nasa.

It's the same with Discovery. Some prominent scientists are members who do excellent work in their fields.

One guy, Guillermo Gonzales has discovered planets, developed the concept of Galactic Habitable Zones, written astronomy textbooks, had the most cited astronomy paper one year, and, oh yeah, was denied tenure at his university solely for his views on Intelligent Design.

Guillermo Gonzales is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute.

Again.

31 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:13pm

I need a vacation.

32 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:22pm

re: #29 rawmuse

I feel nauseous...

There's a bag in the seat in front of you....

33 Racer X  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:35pm

OT (kinda)

Thursday night / Friday am - Vandenberg will shoot the OSTM/Jason-2 satellite up on a Delta 2 rocket.

00:45 Friday morning.

Should be quite a show if you're nearby.

34 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:42pm

re: #18 astronmr20

Isn't it related to the mass of an object? While gravity itself is a theory, if an object has mass, it has a gravitational field.

Right? No?

35 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:57:52pm

re: #25 jcm

Was it at a party at the UW?

Seriously, there have been several students fall to their (unfortunate) death while intoxicated on college row the past few years.

It's an epidemic!

36 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:58:22pm

re: #30 Charles

So what? It doesn't take anything away from his accomplishments.

37 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:58:24pm

The shuttle program ends in 2010?!

38 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:58:32pm

re: #20 Tarkus289

al gore invented gravity.

He only did that so that the internet would work.

39 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:58:56pm

re: #20 Tarkus289

Nuh-uh!

He invented the theory of gravity...real gravity was created during the New Deal.

Didn't you know that?

40 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:58:58pm

re: #34 brainwizard73

Yes it is absolutely related to mass, but we don't know why. No clue.

41 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:59:03pm

And the claim that Gonzalez was denied tenure because of his ID delusions is simply false:

[Link: www.expelledexposed.com...]

42 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:59:08pm

re: #35 psyop

Was it at a party at the UW?

Seriously, there have been several students fall to their (unfortunate) death while intoxicated on college row the past few years.

It's an epidemic!

I was doing a restoration on a 1908 Mansion just North of Greek Row in Seattle. A bunch of rotted wood gave way.

43 Beholden  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:59:12pm

NASA needs to adopt a "Winnie the Pooh" approach to space exploration.

44 Racer X  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 9:59:47pm

re: #43 Beholden

NASA needs to adopt a "Winnie the Pooh" approach to space exploration.

LOL!

45 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:13pm

re: #14 Ringo the Gringo

What causes gravity?

If you can figure that out, you will win a Nobel Prize.

...on second thought, those aren't worth much these days.

meh....

46 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:18pm

Gotta love the nickname of the NASA version of it. Have to admit it though, I would love to experience that flight myself.

/probably the closest I would get to the space experience.

47 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:23pm

re: #37 MandyManners

The shuttle program ends in 2010?!

Yes! The contractors at our site are looking for other jobs now.

48 rabidsquirrel  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:45pm

re: #37 MandyManners

The shuttle program ends in 2010?!

It wasn't supposed to last this long. The maintenance on the shuttle vehicle between each flight is prohibitively expensive, and the vehicles are starting to simply wear out, as evidenced by the increasingly common problems they're having with tiles falling off during launch and in flight.

49 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:55pm

re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

Will you please take your ID discussion and not foul up an interesting science thread?

Dammit, I am sick of having to suffer through 2,568 posts on ID and all the permutations of that topic and then someone has to go and louse up a really neat thread.

Just keep it clear for a few hours, alright?

50 wolfie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:00:55pm

I wonder if it would make you seasick?
Still looks neat, tho.

51 Attaboid  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:19pm

re: #31 Ringo the Gringo

I need a vacation.

My boss called me this morning and asked:"do you want to work?" I said "No". "I'm on vacation". "You approved it!"

Silly bun*.

52 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:27pm

re: #30 Charles
I think that was the point. ..It was good point, well made. But I wish we could dance to another tune. All roads don't have to lead to a pie-fight.

53 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:29pm

re: #42 jcm

Ouch...

Some beautiful old buildings around there, though.

54 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:46pm

re: #46 BlueCanuck

Gotta love the nickname of the NASA version of it. Have to admit it though, I would love to experience that flight myself.

/probably the closest I would get to the space experience.

We are getting a spaceport about 40 miles north of where I live. It's big bucks to go into space, but it will be a likelihood.

55 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:51pm

re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

56 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:01:58pm

re: #41 Charles

And the claim that Gonzalez was denied tenure because of his ID delusions is simply false:

[Link: www.expelledexposed.com...]

Publish or perish.

57 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:02:29pm

re: #40 astronmr20

There haven't been any observable indications? I would think that given that the building blocks of this type of situation are readily available (planets, stars, moons) and that we have good sensors, that we would have some working theories.

No?

58 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:02:31pm

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

59 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:02:36pm

re: #42 jcm

I was doing a restoration on a 1908 Mansion just North of Greek Row in Seattle. A bunch of rotted wood gave way.

It's how people break their necks or backs. You were lucky. We were putting a new roof on our one story house. I told my husband I wanted to see what he was doing. So he allowed me up, and then while we stood there together, or 18 month old came toddling across the roof having followed us up the ladder. We had to scoop her up with out startling her.

60 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:02:43pm

re: #53 psyop

Ouch...

Some beautiful old buildings around there, though.

Here's the house.

61 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:02:59pm

re: #54 songbird

We are getting a spaceport about 40 miles north of where I live. It's big bucks to go into space, but it will be a likelihood.

Really? Private company?

/time to start getting in shape and saving money.

62 Reno911  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:03:11pm

I'm blinded by science...or ID...or...Creationism....whatever.

63 mich-again  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:03:35pm

NASA and NASCAR are pretty similar. One second you are weightless, the next you fell multiple G's.

64 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:03:51pm

re: #59 DistantThunder

Very luck...
I was working on my house and left the ladder to get something, come back and my 3 year old is half way up.

65 wolfie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:03:58pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

Let's not get personal here.

66 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:04:19pm

re: #64 jcm

Very luck...
I was working on my house and left the ladder to get something, come back and my 3 year old is half way up.

They do tend to climb...

67 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:04:35pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

Waaaay Toooo much information....

68 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:05:08pm

re: #66 astronmr20

They do tend to climb...

He's a climber, fearless too. Scares the crap outta me!

69 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:05:30pm

re: #64 jcm

Dodged a bullet there. Thank goodness.

I have a few that young myself and had a scary incident in a neighbor's pool when #2 kid wandered into the deep end (I was busy with another kid).

Neighbor yanked him out. Then wife just about killed me.

70 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:05:33pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.


They have medicine for that now.

71 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:05:59pm

re: #64 jcm

Very luck...
I was working on my house and left the ladder to get something, come back and my 3 year old is half way up.

Ugh. We felt so dumb. I completely took leave of my senses and went up 6 months pregnant. I said to my husband later - Why would you let me do that? Momentary lapse of sanity.

72 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:06:23pm

Now if the guy had been a left-wing nut, lying about his indian heritage, while stealing other peoples' work; Hey, no prob!
Tenure is very complex.

73 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:06:28pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

Perhaps you should propose a cap and trade dinger system.

74 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:06:34pm

re: #61 BlueCanuck

Really? Private company?

/time to start getting in shape and saving money.

Yes. Here is a link.

75 yitzy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:06:58pm

Read the story...loved the pic.

I AM SO JEALOUS IT HURTS! Somebody hold me....(sniff!)

76 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:07:23pm

re: #60 jcm

Very nice....

If you get a chance, there is a replica of George Washington's Mount Vernon home on Capitol Hill, run by the Daughters of the Revolution. Very simple, elegant place. Friends of mine had their wedding there, too much fun was had by all...

77 rusty_armor  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:07:23pm

I am green with envy ...

78 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:07:40pm

re: #71 DistantThunder

In Texas, they might try to take away your unborn for that...

79 greenmiler  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:08:53pm
My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

I hate when that happens

80 Racer X  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:09:16pm

re: #70 MandyManners

They have medicine for that now.

Consult a physician if your dinger keeps dinging after 4 hours.

81 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:10:16pm

re: #75 yitzy

((yitzy))

HEY, KEEP YOUR HANDS STILL!

82 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:10:29pm

Mandy keeps excess Dingers on the mantle.

83 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:10:32pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.


You might need to see a therapist for that.

84 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:11:08pm

re: #74 songbird

Too cool. I am definitely going to have to start making the money for that. Just plan on doing sub-orbitals at first right?

/heard of Virgin Galatic before.

85 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:12:07pm

re: #82 pat

Mandy keeps excess Dingers on the mantle.

That was a mental picture I did not need!
;-P

86 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:12:54pm

I tried to down-ding post #22 at least 30 times. Only one took.

87 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:13:05pm

Charles just told someone to bite him on the Jindal thread. teehee

88 greenmiler  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:13:12pm

I wonder what happens if one person pukes. that must be hell trying to get away from puke in zero G

89 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:13:18pm

re: #84 BlueCanuck

Too cool. I am definitely going to have to start making the money for that. Just plan on doing sub-orbitals at first right?

/heard of Virgin Galatic before.

We hope to bring in good jobs for the area. My husband is running for county commissioner and his slogan is "Future Jobs, Future Technologies".

The Spaceport is an important link in the job production chain.

90 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:13:45pm

re: #78 brainwizard73

In Texas, they might try to take away your unborn for that...


Yeah, really. Definitely poor judgment but I was always so healthy and active and small when I was pregnant I think I just forgot. When I was on the way to the hospital to have my 1st - 3 weeks overdue, I had walked down the stairs of the doctor;s office and the doctor called down to me to tell me he'd forgotten to give me the admission orders. I ran back up the 15 stairs taking them two at a time. When I got to the top, he just looked at me shocked, and I said: What?

He said: I wish all my patients could do that.

91 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:13:53pm
92 yitzy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:14:13pm

re: #81 MandyManners

((yitzy))

HEY, KEEP YOUR HANDS STILL!

Suddenly, it all seems little better now. Whatever you just did, please continue.

((Mandy)) ------> DING!

93 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:14:14pm

re: #88 greenmiler

I wonder what happens if one person pukes. that must be hell trying to get away from puke in zero G

That is such a big problem they ask you to die before you puke.

94 Cognito  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:14:54pm
Oops! Did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant, “SpaceTEC.”

I may be the only reader who feels this way, Charles, but this particular criticism seems to be tipping toward gratuitousness.

There must be a million other philosophies out there deserving attention, as well.

95 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:15:05pm

re: #89 songbird

We hope to bring in good jobs for the area. My husband is running for county commissioner and his slogan is "Future Jobs, Future Technologies".

The Spaceport is an important link in the job production chain.

..In beautiful downtown Upham,NM

96 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:15:38pm

Spewing milk is fun.

97 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:16:24pm

re: #94 Cognito

I may be the only reader who feels this way, Charles, but this particular criticism seems to be tipping toward gratuitousness.

There must be a million other philosophies out there deserving attention, as well.

If ID is taught in public schools, it will open the door to teaching the Koran.

98 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:16:25pm

re: #41 Charles

Don't forget that materials published by the NCSE are at least as suspect as those published by Discovery. There is a definite bias involved, surely you recognize that (not to mention a much bigger budget).

Now, about Gonzalez:

Iowa State University has guidelines for achieving tenure. Raising funding is not mentioned in them (although he did receive grants from NASA among others). Publishing is, and...

Having produced 68 refereed scientific papers at the time of tenure review, Dr. Gonzalez exceeded his own department’s standard for “excellence” in research by more than 350%. One eminent scientist who reviewed Dr. Gonzalez’s tenure application said that, “Dr. Gonzalez is eminently qualified for the promotion according to your guidelines of excellence in scholarship and exhibiting a potential for national distinction. In light of your criteria I would certainly recommend the promotion." Indeed, 2/3 of the external reviewers who gave an opinion about whether Dr. Gonzalez deserves tenure said he should receive tenure.

In one e-mail obtained through an Iowa Open Records request filed by the Discovery Institute (and reported on by the Des Moines Register), Joerg Schmalian, professor of physics and astronomy, wrote a year before the official tenure process began that speaking about Gonzalez's tenure case without his knowledge was paramount to "secrecy in the department."

"In view of the upcoming tenure decision, secrecy in the department may equally be interpreted as prejudging the case as making a statement," Schmalian wrote. "It becomes clear that there were efforts to write such a statement and that statement was not made only to avoid the impression of a hostile environment. Isn't this strong evidence for secrecy in the department?"

Eli Rosenberg, professor and chairman of physics and astronomy, wrote in Gonzalez's tenure dossier that Gonzalez's research into ID did play a part in his decision to deny tenure on the grounds that ID research "disqualifies him from serving as a science educator." Rosenberg declined to comment on the e-mails.

I'm sorry, Discovery Institute again. But they seem to be the only people telling this story.

99 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:17:00pm

re: #98 Johnny 100 Pesos

That's right, the Discovery Institute AGAIN.

100 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:17:05pm

re: #49 brainwizard73

Hey, Charles started it...or did you ot see his tiresome dig at Discovery?

101 rawmuse  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:17:18pm

re: #91 jcm

Woman who refused to move for developers dies

Picture is priceless.

Take the money and get out of there. Too late now.

102 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:17:29pm

AArrrrrGGGhhh!

103 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:19:19pm

re: #95 swamprat

..In beautiful downtown Upham,NM

It's a fabulous place! All the road runners, snakes, and horney toads you could want! Next thing you know the environmentalist will be screaming about saving the area........just like they whine about the oil rich Otero Mesa area.

104 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:20:40pm

re: #90 DistantThunder

Hey, live and learn. Just reminds us of how lucky we are and how good parents aren't born, they're made.

105 jcm  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:21:02pm

re: #103 songbird


dinger dysfunction
horney toads

This thread is going to hell in a hand basket!
;-P

106 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:21:34pm

Well, let's just hope Jindal works this out so that it doesn't affect his credibility long term. Mccain would certainly have issues with him over this.

107 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:21:56pm

re: #100 Johnny 100 Pesos

Asshole.

108 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:22:56pm

re: #103 songbird
Yeah, Cutter is so over developed!

109 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:23:29pm

re: #105 jcm

dinger dysfunction
horney toads

This thread is going to hell in a hand basket!
;-P

My husband found an *ahem* "horned" toad in the desert that looked just like astroboy

110 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:23:35pm

re: #107 MandyManners

ouch

111 Clemente  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:24:31pm

re: #58 swamprat

My dinger is broke. It only does one ding and stops.

/forwarding this week's 1296 strangely-spelled emails, you're welcome :)

112 greenmiler  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:25:02pm

Well you forget about the moose!

Arther/off

113 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:25:22pm

re: #111 Clemente
Gee, thanks.

114 American Soldier  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:27:13pm
Our last experiment was to open an actual International Space Station medical kit, put on gloves, and bandage an imaginary cut on a patient’s arm. Sounds easy eh? Well it isn’t. As I was putting on the gloves, I kept tumbling round and round. I got as far as wiping the fake wound with alcohol before we ran out of time.


Wus. Try one-man one-handed BMV CPR in the back of an ambulance hurtling through Chicago at 90MPH, holding a trauma victim stationary in the back of a CPD Squadrol (all smooth edges, NO handholds) hurtling through Chicago at 100MPH, managing patient care in the back of a Hummer ambulance at ANY speed, doing any task in a helo that's yankin' and bankin', or, for that matter, fixing sandwiches in the windward galley of a sailboat with the leeward rail buried in Lake Michigan.

First aid in micro-gravity? A snap.

115 songbird  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:27:32pm

Goodnight, Faithful Lizards.

The alarm clock rings early nowadays!

116 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:28:30pm

re: #100 Johnny 100 Pesos

Hey, Charles started it...or did you ot see his tiresome dig at Discovery?

So that meant you just had to try to get in one more dig; on this thread.

After something like 4,563 posts on the last thread; because it sounds so much different now as opposed to then.

Good thing that you didn't see anyone jump off a bridge...you probably would have bailed too...I mean, you can't resist, right?

117 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:28:32pm

re: #115 songbird
night, songbird

118 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:28:56pm

Goodnight from me too.

Sweet dreams to everyone. Even Ms. Manners.

Especially Ms. Manners.

119 rawmuse  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:29:14pm

Only five more hours until boarding time.

120 psyop  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:30:09pm

re: #91 jcm

Woman who refused to move for developers dies

Picture is priceless.

LOL....

I remember when that whole thing went down... Score one for the little guy (or little old lady, in this case).

121 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:30:32pm

re: #101 rawmuse

I thought things like that happend only in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

122 jaunte  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:30:53pm

Goodnight all.
Ian Thomas - Goodnight Mrs. Calabash

123 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:31:00pm

re: #98 Johnny 100 Pesos

Don't forget that materials published by the NCSE are at least as suspect as those published by Discovery. There is a definite bias involved, surely you recognize that (not to mention a much bigger budget).

A bias? Sure, if you mean, in favor of good science and biased against garbage pseudo-science. I'm biased that way myself.

And no, it's nowhere near as suspect as the propaganda coming out of the dishonest Discovery Institute.

124 swamprat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:31:48pm

re: #115 songbird

Goodnight, Faithful Lizards.

The alarm clock rings early nowadays!


Songbird, I am looking for a windmill. I am willing to take it down.

125 Johnny 100 Pesos  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:31:51pm

re: #116 brainwizard73

No, I just had a reaction.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

126 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:33:34pm

re: #98 Johnny 100 Pesos

I can see Johnny 2 cents (exchange rate) channelling a great American:

Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment - this was the time - when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals and make sure we all know about intelligent design.

Change!

127 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:34:38pm

re: #125 Johnny 100 Pesos

Just give it a rest at some point. That's all.

128 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:37:30pm

This about this? There is plenty of gravity. You are hurtling towards the earth at terminal velocity.

Fancy illusion.

No thanks.

129 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:38:03pm

re: #126 brainwizard73

Speaking of channeling the junior senator from Illinois, does anyone know his position on funding big science experiments?

Or is he going to kill research to fund his new war on poverty...or the next phase of the war on poverty...or some bullcrap tax cut for the bottom 50% that doesn't pay any tax to speak of...or...you get the point.

130 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:38:51pm

re: #129 brainwizard73

Speaking of channeling the junior senator from Illinois, does anyone know his position on funding big science experiments?

Or is he going to kill research to fund his new war on poverty...or the next phase of the war on poverty...or some bullcrap tax cut for the bottom 50% that doesn't pay any tax to speak of...or...you get the point.

No one knows.

That's part of the problem. Not even he knows. He's making this shit up as he goes along.

131 Syrah  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:40:10pm

re: #128 astronmr20

This about this? There is plenty of gravity. You are hurtling towards the earth at terminal velocity.

Fancy illusion.

No thanks.

But it looks like so much fun, illusion or not, like a roller coaster on steroids.

waves hands in the air and shouts YEAH!

132 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:42:03pm

re: #130 astronmr20

No one knows.

That's part of the problem. Not even he knows. He's making this shit up as he goes along.

From the Obama '08 website:

In the past, government funding for scientific research has yielded innovations that have improved the landscape of American life—technologies like the Internet, digital photography, bar codes, Global Positioning System technology, laser surgery, and chemotherapy. At one time, educational competition with the Soviets fostered the creativity that put a man on the moon. Today, we face a new set of challenges, including energy security, HIV/AIDS, and climate change. Yet, the United States is losing its scientific dominance. Among industrialized nations, our country’s scores on international science and math tests rank in the bottom third and bottom fifth, respectively. Over the last three decades, federal funding for the physical, mathematical and engineering sciences has declined at a time when other countries are substantially increasing their own research budgets. Barack Obama believes federally funded scientific research should play an important role in advancing science and technology in the classroom and in the lab.

Uh, so to I, Senator. Question is, are you going to fund science projects or let your left wing looney toon Demo-bobos use all the money for half-assed social programs?

133 RTLM  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:43:04pm

Space Shuttle data. (a chronology)


Enterprise: OV-101
Named after: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 (fictional)
Contract award: 26 July 1972
First flight: Taxi Test
15 February 1977
Last flight: Free Flight
26 October 1977
Crews: 4
Time spent in space: Never flew in space
Status: On display at Smithsonian Institution


Columbia: OV-102
Named after: Robert Gray’s Columbia Rediviva
Contract award: July 26, 1972
First flight: STS-1
April 12, 1981 - April 14, 1981
Last flight: STS-107
January 16, 2003 – February 1, 2003
Number of missions: 28
Crews: 160
Time spent in space: 300.74 days
Status: Destroyed February 1, 2003

Challenger: OV-099
Named after: HMS Challenger
Contract award: July 26, 1972
First flight: STS-6
April 4, 1983 – April 9, 1983
Last flight: STS-51-L
January 28, 1986
Number of missions: 10
Time spent in space: 62.41 days
Status: Destroyed destroyed January 28, 1986


Discovery: OV-103
Named after: RRS Discovery
Contract award: 29 January 1979
First flight: STS-41-D
August 30, 1984 – September 5, 1984
Last flight: STS-124
May 31st, 2008 - June 14th, 2008
Number of missions: 35
Crews: 214
Time spent in space: 310.60 days
Status: Active

Atlantis: OV-104
Named after: R/V Atlantis
First flight: STS-51-J
3 October 1985 - 7 October 1985
Last flight: STS-122
7 February 2008 - 20 February 2008
Number of missions: 29
Crews: 181
Time spent in space: 245.575 days

Endeavour: OV-105
Named after: HM Bark Endeavour
Contract award: July 31, 1987
First flight: STS-49
May 7, 1992 - May 16, 1992
Last flight: STS-123
March 11, 2008 - March 26, 2008
Number of missions: 21
Time spent in space: 234.01 days
Number of orbits: 3,259
Staus: Active

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It appears the Challenger was the first airframe.

134 George guy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:43:46pm

The first plane assembled itself out of wood and cloth in the primordial goo, which at the time, about 1.5 billion years ago, had many pieces of wood and bits of other organic matter floating in it. It was a simple affair upon which other primordial plane components would gradually stick and accumulate, and this mechanism helped other planes assemble more quickly, though this was still comparatively inefficient. As this group of simple self-replicating planes grew, random variations in their self-construction would eventually lead to additional mechanisms ensuring a less haphazard construction, which allowed the newer planes to simply outpace the reproductive rate of those closer to their ancestral line. But things went on slowly for over a billion years, until some planes evolved the ability to assimilate metal. It made many planes heavier and those died off. Those that were able to use it effectively to strengthen their structures without losing too much airtime, had effectively made a trade-off that made these planes no more vulnerable to predators than their lighter cousins.
By 1903, planes had gained the ability to metabolize gasoline and, unlike their gliding ancestors, undergo short jumps of true flight-- an early specimen was domesticated at this time by the Wright Brothers. Over a short hundred years the increasing efficiency of their engines enabled them to lose their wooden components entirely, some of them having evolved such powerful engines as to be able to launch themselves well into the upper atmosphere, by which any parasite in the host plane's body may enjoy a full 30 seconds of free-fall in relative safety. Now, planes are at the top of their ecological niche save for the occasional goose attack.

135 NY Nana  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:44:16pm

re: #100 Johnny 100 Pesos

WTF is your problem?

136 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:45:14pm

re: #36 Johnny 100 Pesos

So what? It doesn't take anything away from his accomplishments.

So the guy is exceedingly good in one part of his life, and exceedingly foolish in another.

Not like that's ever happened before.

/

137 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:45:19pm

re: #130 astronmr20

No one knows.

That's part of the problem. Not even he knows. He's making this shit up as he goes along.

Actually, the more I surf Obama '08 the more intellectual bankruptcy I find.

Wow, this site is a gold mine.

138 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:45:56pm

Yup yup .. ferget all this ID and Evolution stuff

I'm devolving to a lower lifeform .. it was so much easier back then.

Eat banana ... climb tree ... get eaten by tiger.

Now its just too complex. Irreducibly Complex.

/Bacterium Bunny

139 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:45:58pm

Okay, can't we just keep the ID debate on the ID threads. I feel no need to experience the arguments and attacks that spill over.

140 RTLM  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:46:16pm

I was wrong. Challenger was not the first Orbiter Vehicle.

Pathfinder was.

OV Designation: OV-098
Country: United States
Number of missions: 6 (0 space missions)
Time spent in space: Not a space vehicle
Number of orbits: 0
Status: On display at the U.S. Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville, Alabama.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

141 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:47:05pm

re: #134 George guy

The first plane assembled itself out of wood and cloth in the primordial goo, which at the time, about 1.5 billion years ago, had many pieces of wood and bits of other organic matter floating in it. It was a simple affair upon which other primordial plane components would gradually stick and accumulate, and this mechanism helped other planes assemble more quickly, though this was still comparatively inefficient. As this group of simple self-replicating planes grew, random variations in their self-construction would eventually lead to additional mechanisms ensuring a less haphazard construction, which allowed the newer planes to simply outpace the reproductive rate of those closer to their ancestral line. But things went on slowly for over a billion years, until some planes evolved the ability to assimilate metal. It made many planes heavier and those died off. Those that were able to use it effectively to strengthen their structures without losing too much airtime, had effectively made a trade-off that made these planes no more vulnerable to predators than their lighter cousins.
By 1903, planes had gained the ability to metabolize gasoline and, unlike their gliding ancestors, undergo short jumps of true flight-- an early specimen was domesticated at this time by the Wright Brothers. Over a short hundred years the increasing efficiency of their engines enabled them to lose their wooden components entirely, some of them having evolved such powerful engines as to be able to launch themselves well into the upper atmosphere, by which any parasite in the host plane's body may enjoy a full 30 seconds of free-fall in relative safety. Now, planes are at the top of their ecological niche save for the occasional goose attack.

Actually, the first plane was built by human beings, based on scientific principles. Other human beings took that very HUMAN design and improved it until we now have a worldwide air transport system.

All based on science, not on religious belief.

142 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:47:49pm

I don't get hummus. You could dress that up with caviar and serve it on a garlic bagel cracker and it would still taste like something the carpenter glued the floor down with. OK. I hate it.

143 Carridine  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:47:57pm

I liked the

'...remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals ...'

That is sickness, revealed. Nothing except an idealized, inhuman, inhumane IMAGINARY utopia...

144 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:48:22pm

I'm going to whip up a late dinner.


Need a break from teh interwebz. see you lizards around.

145 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:48:56pm

Hummus was firat made by termites with the runs. The planes came after.

146 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:49:09pm

re: #134 George guy

By 1903, planes had gained the ability to metabolize gasoline and, unlike their gliding ancestors, undergo short jumps of true flight-- an early specimen was domesticated at this time by the Wright Brothers. Over a short hundred years the increasing efficiency of their engines enabled them to lose their wooden components entirely, some of them having evolved such powerful engines as to be able to launch themselves well into the upper atmosphere, by which any parasite in the host plane's body may enjoy a full 30 seconds of free-fall in relative safety. Now, planes are at the top of their ecological niche save for the occasional goose attack.

It was clear as soon as planes evolved to a hard metallic exoskeleton that they would soon rule the skies. Had it not been for their continual diet of Kerosene .. they would have lasted a couple more centuries. But soon .. all we will see is their skeletons at local airports.

147 George guy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:50:00pm

re: #141 Charles

Actually, the first plane was built by human beings, based on scientific principles. Other human beings took that very HUMAN design and improved it until we now have a worldwide air transport system.

All based on science, not on religious belief.

Based on laws of physics enumerated by people including Isaac Newton, who was renowned for his work not being informed by his religious belief.

148 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:51:29pm

re: #147 George guy

Based on laws of physics enumerated by people including Isaac Newton, who was renowned for his work not being informed by his religious belief.

Isaac Newton's religious beliefs had nothing whatsoever to do with his insights into the laws of motion and gravity.

149 brainwizard73  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:51:47pm

Alright, bile for ID party/thread crashers tapped out.

Bedtime.

150 Syrah  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:52:19pm

re: #133 RTLM

Space Shuttle data. (a chronology)


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It appears the Challenger was the first airframe.

They are getting old.

They have rough duty. Not good to work them too long.

151 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:54:37pm

re: #147 George guy

Based on laws of physics enumerated by people including Isaac Newton, who was renowned for his work not being informed by his religious belief.

The remarkable thing about the last 500 years is most science has been CONTINUALLY challenged by religious doctrine, but eventually science has won out. The ludicrous claims of the established train of though is usually silenced within a generation or two as the science gains momentum and BUILDS on the discoveries.

Here is the big three point question. If you accept ID as anything, then where do we go from here? Further derivations on the THEOLOGICAL possibility of intervention of a greater intellect on the common area?

Puhleez. Give me some science !

/Braniac Bunny

152 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:55:40pm

re: #143 Carridine

I liked the

That is sickness, revealed. Nothing except an idealized, inhuman, inhumane IMAGINARY utopia...

Got it in one. All BS. Pure PR speak. No economics (and he is up against a halfwit there), no reality based diplomacy, a complete rejection of treaties with our largest trade partners, retreat from all military commitments, and a horrific downsizing on our military so that others won't attack us. A moron. A babbling fool or someone's tool.

153 George guy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:55:48pm

re: #148 Charles

Isaac Newton's religious beliefs had nothing whatsoever to do with his insights into the laws of motion and gravity.

You would certainly be correct in saying Newton's belief that a rational God created the Universe to operate on rational laws had nothing to do with his insights into the laws of motion and gravity.

154 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:57:18pm

re: #93 pat

That is such a big problem they ask you to die before you puke.

Seems to me a hand-held vacuum cleaner like a Dustbuster might be appropriate for that.

155 Clemente  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:58:31pm

re: #134 George guy

The first plane assembled itself out of wood and cloth in the primordial goo, which at the time, about 1.5 billion years ago... blah blah blah

and ID isn't a warm, steamy crock bereft of actual, rigorous method.

/right.

156 Charles  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 10:59:18pm

re: #153 George guy

You would certainly be correct in saying Newton's belief that a rational God created the Universe to operate on rational laws had nothing to do with his insights into the laws of motion and gravity.

Hey, is that sarcasm? I think it's sarcasm!

Newton did not rely on divine intervention to formulate his theories. Unlike the "intelligent design" hoaxers.

157 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:01:19pm

The current evolution of the Firefox does not bedazzle me, though it is still as formidable a predator is always. I suspect it must be more of an internal change.

/g'dafternoon!

158 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:02:06pm

re: #153 George guy

You would certainly be correct in saying Newton's belief that a rational God created the Universe to operate on rational laws had nothing to do with his insights into the laws of motion and gravity.

Why quote separation?

THIS IS THE LUNACY !

Why do you need a separation of doctrine and science when almost inevitably, there are parts of the early bible that are complemented and verified through archeological and scientific discoveries?

Men .. RELIGIOUS MEN .. have gone to work .. created things for human benefit WITH science and have gone home to a house based on the Bible.

Its just insulting to even try to seperate the two.

159 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:02:13pm

re: #156 Charles

I am probably going to ask one of the most FAQs regarding "God" and evolution...

If evolution is proven, doesn't that automatically disprove the existence of a superior deity due to its refutation of Scripture?

160 Syrah  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:03:28pm

It's late.

I have had way too much Tequila.

I have to get up way too early in the morning.

Goodnight all.

Keep a cool head.

If you can't take the heat here among friends, you won't stand a chance out their in the real world when the shit hits the fan.

play nice.

161 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:03:38pm

re: #109 songbird

My husband found an *ahem* "horned" toad in the desert that looked just like astroboy

A horny toad is actually a horned lizard, which is a reptile, and not a toad at all. Toads are amphibians.

I remember working on a mineral property southwest of Las Vegas, NV, many years ago, and one of the principals caught a horned lizard, and smuggled it back to Canada in his shirt pocket to become a pet for his children. Cute little critters, they are.

162 RTLM  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:03:51pm

re: #150 Syrah

They're refurbished after every cycle. But you are right - they are old and need to be retired.

Can't wait for the Orion.

(2018)

163 FamHistoryGuy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:04:06pm

re: #158 Buster Bunny

More Muslim science!

164 American Soldier  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:08:30pm

re: #142 pat

I don't get hummus. You could dress that up with caviar and serve it on a garlic bagel cracker and it would still taste like something the carpenter glued the floor down with. OK. I hate it.

Cool. So, like, if you're not gonna eat it, pass it this way, please.


/later

165 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:09:16pm

re: #159 laZardo

I am probably going to ask one of the most FAQs regarding "God" and evolution...

If evolution is proven, doesn't that automatically disprove the existence of a superior deity due to its refutation of Scripture?

If evolution is proven .. it does not disseminate in any way from the value of the bible OR discredit scripture. The sequences in Genesis read in the correct order for what actually took place, which is pretty impressive for a 2000 year old storybook.

dont debunk what you arent prepared to invoke, unless your comprehension of the text is explicit and thorough.

There is more to the Bible than most people even bother to deal with. I speak both Hebrew and English, read Aramaic and Persian so .. i can read the analysis of the texts over the past 1300 years.

Read it, study it and dont assume that they need to be separate.

166 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:12:16pm

re: #165 Buster Bunny

There are two sequences in Genesis though. The first one is the "classic six-day" where humans are created after the rest of animal life, the other is an "alternate" where humans are created before animal life.

Exactly how/which sequence is correct, let alone it taking place in six days, is beyond me.

I just think we're quite lucky to exist at all.

167 George guy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:13:54pm

re: #151 Buster Bunny

Neo-Darwinism: Evolution is a process by which life has grown, generally, over time, more complex as it adapts to its environment.

Creationism: Evolution is a process by which life adapts to its environment while degenerating from its original state.

This kind of claim might be scientifically testable if you could get a good definition of degeneration.
Just saying, there is a bit more that could be done in that direction, although my opinion is that science education would do better focusing on examining how nature presently works and all the mechanisms involved in that, before muddying the waters with assumptions about origins, especially if we're going to assume that public schools are actually necessary.

168 Inquisitive  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:15:08pm

re: #107 MandyManners

Asshole.


Took the words right out of my...fingers!

169 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:18:29pm

re: #167 George guy

Neo-Darwinism: Evolution is a process by which life has grown, generally, over time, more complex as it adapts to its environment.

Creationism: Evolution is a process by which life adapts to its environment while degenerating from its original state.

I can think of two countries (one official, one "official," note the quote bunnies) that fit the bill for those processes. (;

170 Clemente  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:19:28pm

re: #158 Buster Bunny

Why quote separation?

THIS IS THE LUNACY !It's just insulting to even try to seperate conflate the two.

Faith is FAITH!

Does faith need empirical confirmation? I don't think so. Faith is what you accept without scientific proof. Science explains what it can; faith covers that which one believes absent rational explanation. And ignorance of scientific rigor gives fanatics license to commandeer science.

171 George guy  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:23:37pm

re: #169 laZardo

I can think of two countries (one official, one "official," note the quote bunnies) that fit the bill for those processes. (;

Well, the US Government is sort of doing both at once.

And an aside: Some people might not prefer to unleash this discussion except in threads that address it in particular, but I think it's a safe bet to assume that Charles knew what he was provoking with his choice of wording, and as such, this discussion is not as off-topic as some lizards might wish it were.

172 MarineGrunt  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:28:00pm
173 nemo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:28:31pm

Wow what a incredibly fun and an amazing time that must have been! Thanks for sharing the story and pictures.

Maybe when the giant Hadron super-collider is fully online, we shall finally know what causes gravity.

174 Buster Bunny  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:30:27pm

re: #171 George guy

Well, the US Government is sort of doing both at once.

And an aside: Some people might not prefer to unleash this discussion except in threads that address it in particular, but I think it's a safe bet to assume that Charles knew what he was provoking with his choice of wording, and as such, this discussion is not as off-topic as some lizards might wish it were.

Actually the remarkable thing about evolution is the real kicker in the process. If you were to run the same animal through the SAME process as you had previously, you would end up getting a different result. Thats the remarkable thing, that on a regular basis the chem makeup of life is so complex as to be incomprehensible and yet it all comes from a very quantifiable set of sequences.

The remarkable thing if you acknowledge a creator is not that he has to have a continual participation in the process, but has the ability to create a process that is absolutely random and yet propogational.

Thats pretty amazin stuff.

/Biological Bunny.

175 Summer  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:33:07pm

re: #159 laZardo

That's the problem with fundamentalists. They can't see the Bible in a historical context. They can't see how it doesn't refute the existence of a God simply to explain, quite rationally and without fanfare, that stories back then were told by a lot of people who didn't know anything about how the Universe worked. They were searching as best as they could. Usually they were wrong. They thought the earth was flat. They thought that the sun went around the earth. They saw things which, at first, seem natural to everyone until science comes along and gives us a better explanation.

It doesn't mean that the Bible is worthless, or that any other religious text is worthless. Simply from a sociological point of view, it is a fascinating and beautiful piece of work which can show us forever how people back then dealt with their understanding, or lack thereof, of the Universe around them. In that respect it can be beautiful. It can show us many other things as well.

Saying that it it is part of our history and not to be taken entirely literally doesn't destroy it. It elevates it into the realm of the human experience.

I'm an Atheist, but I would never for one moment say that we should not learn the Bible or the history of the people around the times when we believe it was written. We have to learn that to understand who we are today.

But Intelligent Design, and fundamentalists, are trying to say that those people knew more than we did. They didn't. It is fairly clear to anyone with an honest outlook that these people knew less than we did today. You may not like that, but that's just the way it is. I don't like the fact that one of Einstein's equations also created the nuclear bomb, but that's also just the way it is. People in "biblical ages" were far more ignorant about things than we are today. They were not wiser or smarter. They didn't have incredible insight into things we cannot comprehend. Today, we have power to do things which they literally could not even dream of doing. The Universe is far greater than they could ever have possibly imagined.

Fundamentalists have to realize that this invalidates much of the written word. I'm not saying that it invalidates there being a God or not - that really is up to each person. I won't argue that in this thread, but just saying that the acceptance of evolution invalidates a creator is like comparing apples and oranges.

Fundamentalists just have to get over this insecurity of their holy book being...well...not so holy after all. The belief in God, and what you do with it, may be far more holy than that book itself. That's a fine argument to make. But saying that the book is all correct, and that science shows us only what is in that book because those people knew far more than we do, is ludicrous. It is based on unspeakable ignorance of the entire scope of human history. It is tantamount to saying that we should listen to ignorant children because they know better.

It is time that fundamentalists start shrugging off that stupid system of limitations which, essentially, keeps them in the bronze age. We've moved on as a species. Our societies have also evolved. Perhaps if the fundamentalists evolve along with the rest of us they might better understand where we are coming from.

By all means, believe in God and evolution. But Intelligent Design? Let's be real. If we accept that, then what is the next step? Prayer for genetic modification? Please....

Time to put that canard to rest, and join the progress others have made who never thought that "God did it" was a perfectly acceptable and rational explanation.

176 pat  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:35:25pm

re: #172 MarineGrunt

Google satellite view of house and construction.

Batteries Not Included

177 astronmr20  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:37:19pm

re: #173 nemo

Wow what a incredibly fun and an amazing time that must have been! Thanks for sharing the story and pictures.

Maybe when the giant Hadron super-collider is fully online, we shall finally know what causes gravity.

Provided we don't make a black hole with it.

178 Summer  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:39:27pm

re: #177 astronmr20

re: #177 astronmr20

Provided we don't make a black hole with it.

Actually, we're hoping to make a black hole. It would only last microseconds at best, would be extremely tiny, and would tell us far more about the origins of the universe and the particles in it than a bronze age text ever could. =)

We're talking about a black hole the size of an atom. We are not talking about a black hole which was originally the size of an entire star.

There's a slight difference in scale, you know. =)

179 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:39:48pm

re: #177 astronmr20

Or turn the earth into strangelets.

/not that this planet's strange enough as it is...

180 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:42:08pm

re: #178 Summer

Wait till it sucks in more than just an atom.

See you in the parallel universe.

181 Clemente  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:44:19pm

re: #178 Summer

re: #177 astronmr20

Actually, we're hoping to make a black hole. It would only last microseconds at best, would be extremely tiny, and would tell us far more about the origins of the universe and the particles in it than a bronze age text ever could. =)

We're talking about a black hole the size of an atom. We are not talking about a black hole which was originally the size of an entire star.

There's a slight difference in scale, you know. =)

Do you refer to three-dimensional "size" or mass?

182 Summer  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:45:38pm

re: #180 laZardo

Wait till it sucks in more than just an atom.

See you in the parallel universe.

There aren't enough atoms around this hypothetical black hole to get sucked in by the time it implodes and then probably explodes. Not only that, they would have to be all within range within that microsecond for it to start having an effect. Again...there's a scale thing involved. =)

183 nemo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:48:43pm

re: #175 Summer

I work with a GA Tech graduate, a fellow application developer, who believes the earth is 4000 years old and the story of Noah literally happened, that all life, except for that which was on Noah's arc, was destroyed. I asked him what of Australian marsupials, how did Noah get them on the boa? The answer is simple, at that time, all the land was connected. I tried to explain tectonic plates and the slow movement of land masses, the creation of mountain ranges, etc but returned to the arc story: So I said in order to get the diversity of life on a boat, it'd have to be massive. It was, he explained, and told me the length in cubits. Wow. I went on to explain the build up of ice sheets in the arctic, ice core sampels and how old the earth is to him, the fossil record and the use of C14 carbon dating. He didn't say "hogwash", he didn't have to, but he did say I can find a lot of answers in the bible. He is right there but not answers of science; answers to questions of the basis of morality yes. He is a good kid, in my opinion, who has been taught to be very guarded with his beliefs in God. I would defend his right to believe what he believes from anyone. I just happen to agree with you that the stories in the bible explaning creation were written by people who did not have all the facts. To me God is simply truth.

184 trigger girlie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:49:31pm

morning everyone!

185 nemo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:50:19pm

re: #177 astronmr20

Provided we don't make a black hole with it.

Or a strangelet.

186 zombie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:50:31pm

New at zomblog -- a mini-report on a trivial moonbataganza:

U.C. Berkeley Dismantles Oak Grove “Tree-Sit”

Nothing earthshaking, just more ridiculousness in Berkeley. With a couple of memorable images.

As mentioned in an earlier zombietime report, a ragtag group of protesters have for the last year and a half been “occupying” a small grove of oak trees near the U.C. Berkeley campus, in an attempt to prevent the university from building a new student athletic facility on the site. For unknown reasons, the university never evicted the protesters, who had taken to living in the trees themselves. That is, until today, June 17, 2008, when without warning the university began to dismantle the illegal “tree-sit.”

The eviction of the protesters and the dismantlement of their treehouses and rope network began at 6:30 in the morning. This short photo essay is in no way intended to be a comprehensive document of what happened on June 17 — just one person’s perspective of a few minutes in the day-long incident, much later in the afternoon. Here, one of the tree-sit supporters expresses her opinion of either Berkeley, or (more likely, considering the red-white-and-blue color scheme) the United States.

187 HypnoToad  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:52:25pm
There
aren't enough atoms around this hypothetical black hole to get sucked
in by the time it implodes and then probably explodes. Not only that,
they would have to be all within range within that microsecond for it
to start having an effect. Again...there's a scale thing involved. =)

Even if the micro hole sucked in a number of atoms, its mass would only grow by the mass of those atoms and not increase its lifetime significantly. A black hole would need a much greater mass than they hope to create experimentally in order to outgrow its decay rate by swallowing nearby matter. (about the mass of a small asteroid)

188 laZardo  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:52:25pm

re: #182 Summer

Unless the experiments are being conducted in an absolute vacuum, there's plenty of atoms to go around.

189 Summer  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:52:27pm

re: #181 Clemente

Do you refer to three-dimensional "size" or mass?

Initially "size" in layperson's terms. After that, I'm talking about mass. =) But when you talk about black holes in space and their gravitational effect, they tend to start as extremely large objects. That's all I'm saying.

The black holes we are hoping for in the LHC would be incredibly small and would be lucky to drag one or two other atoms into their mass before they expired. Comparing that to an imploded star is kind of ludicrous. =)

We also have made anti-matter in colliders. But again, at that scale, the reactions aren't big enough to start worrying about blowing up the universe, the galaxy, the solar system, the planet, the continent, the country, or even the small little chamber they are existing inside of for that microsecond.

190 wolfie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:57:06pm

re: #186 zombie

Ha, ha !

I love the girl lying on the ground....excuse me, I mean getting in touch with the ground with a pillow (jacket?) under her head.
Kind of destroys the martyrdom image, but.............

191 wolfie  Tue, Jun 17, 2008 11:59:16pm

re: #186 zombie

Do you ever get the feeling that college kids might be bored?
I have a feeling that I'd better not look at your college moonbat stuff when I start teaching again next year. It makes me want to lay the work on thick!

192 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:00:06am

re: #188 laZardo

Unless the experiments are being conducted in an absolute vacuum, there's plenty of atoms to go around.

1) It's as near a vacuum in that center point where they collide as they can try to get it. If not, their detectors would be utterly useless.

2) Yes, obviously they are throwing particles from two directions against each other, meaning something is there. Which leads me to...

3) It still isn't enough for you to really notice without detectors. Ok?

193 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:00:19am

re: #190 wolfie

Yeah, she was a real drama queen. Trying to act like Isadora Duncan or some tragic heroine. "Oh, the agony of life! I just can't take it any more! I must descend to the ground to recharge my earth-batteries! Oh, and by the way -- could you bring me a brownie or something?"

194 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:02:26am

re: #186 zombie

Found a more interesting "hobo code" link.

195 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:02:29am

re: #193 zombie

I was amused by the fact that there were other kids there........the ones in the building..........that were cheering when the tree houses came down.

196 Clemente  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:04:32am

re: #189 Summer

Thanks for the 'ply! Still worried that 99 44/100 percent of Lizardia might be sucked into LBL's revivified point-mass...

197 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:06:00am

re: #114 American Soldier

91B in the back of a 113......

/or being a patient in the same %-)

198 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:11:27am

re: #195 wolfie

I was amused by the fact that there were other kids there........the ones in the building..........that were cheering when the tree houses came down.

Though it doesn't get much publicity, the truth is most of the students hate the treesitters and want there to be a new athletic training facility. Though you wouldn't learn that from the MSM.

199 Clemente  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:12:08am

Oh crap, now I've done it. And killed the thread!

200 rawmuse  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:14:00am

re: #199 Clemente

Oh crap, now I've done it. And killed the thread!

Did not...

201 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:14:54am

/lurking, waiting for topic to thourghly Change

202 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:15:33am

re: #159 laZardo

I am probably going to ask one of the most FAQs regarding "God" and evolution...

If evolution is proven, doesn't that automatically disprove the existence of a superior deity due to its refutation of Scripture?

why are they mutually exclusive? even the Roman Catholic church doesn't think so.

203 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:16:11am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

/lurking, waiting for topic to thourghly Change

shut up and drink....................

"Hope!"

204 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:18:47am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

/lurking, waiting for topic to thourghly Change

Well, we could go back to hummus and its use as a handy, makeshift paste.
Then again, going back would be reactionary.

205 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:18:55am

re: #182 Summer

There aren't enough atoms around this hypothetical black hole to get sucked in by the time it implodes and then probably explodes. Not only that, they would have to be all within range within that microsecond for it to start having an effect. Again...there's a scale thing involved. =)

hope is not the best insurance policy available......

/Murphy will not be ignored

206 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:21:15am

re: #205 redc1c4

You have to admit it'd be damned funny if we sucked in the whole galaxy!

207 MajorPribluda  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:24:04am

re: #98 Johnny 100 Pesos

I'm sorry, Discovery Institute again. But they seem to be the only people telling selling this story.

Fixed that for ya.

208 HypnoToad  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:24:47am

re: #206 wolfie

You have to admit it'd be damned funny if we sucked in the whole galaxy!

Remember when they worried about the first atomic bomb igniting the atmosphere and burning us all to kingdom come?

209 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:25:41am

re: #205 redc1c4

hope is not the best insurance policy available......

/Murphy will not be ignored

Hope has nothing to do with it... You can't blow something up with just a few atoms. It has everything to do with actual physics. Saying anything else is like saying you have to "hope" that you don't get stuck in midair when you jump up. We know that we can't blow up more than a few atoms at best. The LHC isn't going to blow up the universe.

210 MajorPribluda  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:27:07am

re: #22 Johnny 100 Pesos

denied tenure at his university solely for his views on Intelligent Design. dishonest doctrinal refusal to separate appealing but specious arguments from his scientific studies.

Fixed that for ya too. (You seem to need a lot of fixing).

211 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:27:28am

re: #208 HypnoToad

Remember when they worried about the first atomic bomb igniting the atmosphere and burning us all to kingdom come?

I didn't know they worried about that.
Interesting.

212 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:27:46am

re: #209 Summer

The LHC isn't going to blow up the universe.

Well, that sounds like a theory, and we all know how bad those things are...

213 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:27:50am

re: #202 redc1c4

Huh? When'd they disagree? I would think that any major institution that realizes that evolution also disproves the "value of life" would not want to get that word out to their followers.

re: #209 Summer

It's not the entire universe we're worried about. Ever wonder why we haven't found any intelligent life out there, but a lot of black holes?

214 Clemente  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:29:12am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

/lurking, waiting for topic to thourghly Change

(Warning - AP link - all related thread content subject to arbitrary surcharge!)

Security heavy for Olympic flame in China's Muslim region

China says it has &$#ed Tibet for centuries, "$%^*& many Tibetans say their *%^%U&%$ was essentially independent for #%^ of that time. Tensions were @%$&^$^% in March when protests against Chinese #%^& in Lhasa and other ^%&* Tibetan areas throughout China *^#$&^% security clampdown in the region.

Tight security measures are *&^#%^&% for the Lhasa stop.

215 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:29:18am

Hope there's not a redneck at the collider controls... Y'all watch this! :)

Here's a diversion seals on a rock, earlier this afternoon.

216 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:29:42am

re: #206 wolfie

You have to admit it'd be damned funny if we sucked in the whole galaxy!

but that would be a huge waste of my wine and scotch collection.....i was planning on drinking them.

/just for starters.

217 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:30:24am

re: #213 laZardo

Huh? When'd they disagree? I would think that any major institution that realizes that evolution also disproves the "value of life" would not want to get that word out to their followers.

re: #209 Summer

It's not the entire universe we're worried about. Ever wonder why we haven't found any intelligent life out there, but a lot of black holes?

because there's no intelligent life here?

218 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:32:19am

re: #209 Summer

It's not the entire universe we're worried about. Ever wonder why we haven't found any intelligent life out there, but a lot of black holes?

If you think the LHC has any chance of creating a black hole with the initial mass of a collapsed star, you really ought to go back to physics class.

Sorry.

And yes, they did worry about igniting the atmosphere with the explosion of Trinity. And that had actually more real potential of happening - a reaction a trillion times more powerful than the LHC can produce. But it didn't happen. So if a uranium plug the size of a fist didn't blow up the atmosphere, the LHC isn't even going to blow up a match.

219 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:32:34am

re: #209 Summer

Hope has nothing to do with it... You can't blow something up with just a few atoms. It has everything to do with actual physics. Saying anything else is like saying you have to "hope" that you don't get stuck in midair when you jump up. We know that we can't blow up more than a few atoms at best. The LHC isn't going to blow up the universe.

no doubt, but the infantryman in me cringes anyway.....

/danger close is a wonderful concept, until you are part of it %-)

220 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:33:07am

re: #217 redc1c4

There won't be in a generation or two if this Creationism (using) definition from #167) keeps up.

221 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:33:42am

re: #220 laZardo

PIMF, one too many closing parentheses.

222 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:33:54am

re: #215 slokat

Hope there's not a redneck at the collider controls... Y'all watch this! :)

Here's a diversion seals on a rock, earlier this afternoon.

like me?

"more power!" %-)

223 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:33:59am

re: #178 Summer

re: #177 astronmr20

Actually, we're hoping to make a black hole. It would only last microseconds at best, would be extremely tiny, and would tell us far more about the origins of the universe and the particles in it than a bronze age text ever could. =)

We're talking about a black hole the size of an atom. We are not talking about a black hole which was originally the size of an entire star.

There's a slight difference in scale, you know. =)

re: #182 Summer

There aren't enough atoms around this hypothetical black hole to get sucked in by the time it implodes and then probably explodes. Not only that, they would have to be all within range within that microsecond for it to start having an effect. Again...there's a scale thing involved. =)

re: #189 Summer

Initially "size" in layperson's terms. After that, I'm talking about mass. =) But when you talk about black holes in space and their gravitational effect, they tend to start as extremely large objects. That's all I'm saying.

The black holes we are hoping for in the LHC would be incredibly small and would be lucky to drag one or two other atoms into their mass before they expired. Comparing that to an imploded star is kind of ludicrous. =)

We also have made anti-matter in colliders. But again, at that scale, the reactions aren't big enough to start worrying about blowing up the universe, the galaxy, the solar system, the planet, the continent, the country, or even the small little chamber they are existing inside of for that microsecond.

You're making me nervous here.

Isn't the whole point of a black hole that, once it gets started, there's no way to un-start it? And no way to destroy it? If it explodes, then it wasn't a black hole to begin with. Nothing can emerge from within a black hole -- not even radiation. Right? Yes, I know about different types of particles escaping from the event horizon, but once they've crossed that line -- they're gone. I mean, that's the definition of a black hole.

So even if you created a black hole that was just two atoms big, by what mechanism could it implode/explode? And if it did so, then why would it be deemed a black hole in the first place?

I do worry that they will create a submicroscopic black hole that will become stable, and then, atom by atom, unstoppably eat up the whole world eventually.

224 HypnoToad  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:34:33am

re: #206 wolfie

You have to admit it'd be damned funny if we sucked in the whole galaxy!

Maybe that's why nobody else will talk to us....

/rimshot

225 trigger girlie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:35:18am

re: #200 rawmuse

hey raw!

226 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:35:54am

re: #218 Summer

I never said such a happening would be a bad thing...

227 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:36:30am

re: #218 Summer

Agreed, besides a micro black hole will evaporate almost as fast as it's created. I think Stephen Hawking has talked about this and done the math on it.

228 rawmuse  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:36:44am

There shall be no blowing up of the universe until I get back to my bed in San Francisco.

229 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:37:04am

re: #224 HypnoToad

:D

230 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:37:18am

So , trees, cherry pickers, feces throwing proto-sapiens, hungry earth babe, jeering athletes, bored cops... I wonder if the trees feel like they just got deloused, or are terrified about the next step?

/justing feeling like I'm in Berkeley

Thanks Zombie!

231 MajorPribluda  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:38:25am

re: #40 astronmr20

Yes it is absolutely related to mass, but we don't know why. No clue.

Well, it's really about the curvature of space-time. Which is another way of saying that we have no clue.

232 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:38:54am

Changing topics...


In memory of Cyd Charrise.

233 Clemente  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:39:01am

re: #223 zombie

You're making me nervous here.

...

...by what mechanism could it implode/explode?

That were my next question!

234 wolfie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:39:14am

re: #230 slokat

Now that you mention it, I have a feeling they'd slit their own throats with a chain saw if they could!

235 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:39:34am

re: #230 slokat

First they're committing a Holocaust of teh Palistenians, now they're prepping the trees for the ovens to amke paper!

/rapid, shitty typing intended

236 Three Hundred  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:40:46am

re: #208 HypnoToad

Remember when they worried about the first atomic bomb igniting the atmosphere and burning us all to kingdom come?

"Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might "ignite" the atmosphere, because of a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei. Bethe calculated, according to Serber, that it could not happen. In his book The Road from Los Alamos, Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602, showing that ignition of the atmosphere was impossible, not just unlikely.[7] In Serber's account, Oppenheimer mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who "didn't have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington" which led to the question being "never laid to rest"."

source: wikipedia

237 HypnoToad  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:41:34am

re: #223 zombie

You're making me nervous here.


I do worry that they
will create a submicroscopic black hole that will become stable, and
then, atom by atom, unstoppably eat up the whole world eventually.

No need to worry. Micro mass black holes have very brief lifetimes (microseconds at best) before they lose their mass due to Hawking radiation and expire. Their event horizons are also much smaller than an atom at these tiny masses, so it is almost impossible for them to swallow any additional mass before they expire.

238 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:42:22am

re: #209 Summer

Hope has nothing to do with it... You can't blow something up with just a few atoms. It has everything to do with actual physics. Saying anything else is like saying you have to "hope" that you don't get stuck in midair when you jump up. We know that we can't blow up more than a few atoms at best. The LHC isn't going to blow up the universe.

There was a great but little-seen New Zealand movie on this very topic. Two scientists were experimenting on a seemingly trivial project in some obscure lab; they flipped the switch on some device they had invented and -- poof -- every living thing in the universe disappeared in an instant, having been accidentally transported to another dimension.

But we don't follow those people. The scene stays on earth, where the handful of people who were momentarily "dead" at the moment the experiment went awry all came back to life, and had to restart civilization. There was a guy who was being drowned by an assailant, and whose heart had stopped -- but who recovered once his assailant disappeared and he came back up out of the water. Then there was a woman who was in the process of being electrocuted during the experiment, and who was technically dead for a brief time, but who was jolted back to life. A newborn late-term fetus; and so on.

Anyway, it was quite interesting. And I fear that the hadron collider might totally unintentionally do something similar!

239 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:43:27am

re: #238 zombie

Sliders FTW?

240 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:45:00am

re: #237 HypnoToad

No need to worry. Micro mass black holes have very brief lifetimes (microseconds at best) before they lose their mass due to Hawking radiation and expire. Their event horizons are also much smaller than an atom at these tiny masses, so it is almost impossible for them to swallow any additional mass before they expire.

"almost"

you'll excuse me while i go get another drink.......

/no sense it going to waste in a black hole, when i can waste it down my pie hole. %-)

241 MajorPribluda  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:45:52am

re: #94 Cognito

I may be the only reader who feels this way, Charles, but this particular criticism seems to be tipping toward gratuitousness.

There must be a million other philosophies out there deserving attention, as well.

You're a pro, cognito. What's the word for a touchy-feely squishy cuddly troll? And I accidentally updinged you. Meant to be down.

May all of your stuffing fall out your seams.

242 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:47:32am

re: #230 slokat

So , trees, cherry pickers, feces throwing proto-sapiens, hungry earth babe, jeering athletes, bored cops... I wonder if the trees feel like they just got deloused, or are terrified about the next step?

/justing feeling like I'm in Berkeley

Thanks Zombie!

I also decided not to use the photo of the three squashed rat corpses.

The tree-sitters had created an entire verminous ecosystem. The trees never had it so bad.

Anyway: The oaks are not "old-growth trees," just part of the stadium landscaping planted in the 1920s; and for every tree the university needs to cut down for the building, they're going to plant three new ones nearby.

But no matter. The communist/anarchist lunatics have found their cause celebre, and they will not let go!

243 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:47:52am

re: #234 wolfie

realized after the fact that I should've asked if the trees were petrified about what happens next?

244 HypnoToad  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:52:01am

I'm going to drop beyond the event horizon of my subconcious. I need to be fresh in the morning to finish that ocillation overthruster design at work.

G-nite

245 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:52:03am

BTW, why are they still trying to find the Higgs Boson... I thought it was already discovered to have a mass of 13131313...(repeating)....

246 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:53:00am

re: #238 zombie

There was a great but little-seen New Zealand movie on this very topic. Two scientists were experimenting on a seemingly trivial project in some obscure lab; they flipped the switch on some device they had invented and -- poof -- every living thing in the universe disappeared in an instant, having been accidentally transported to another dimension.

But we don't follow those people. The scene stays on earth, where the handful of people who were momentarily "dead" at the moment the experiment went awry all came back to life, and had to restart civilization. There was a guy who was being drowned by an assailant, and whose heart had stopped -- but who recovered once his assailant disappeared and he came back up out of the water. Then there was a woman who was in the process of being electrocuted during the experiment, and who was technically dead for a brief time, but who was jolted back to life. A newborn late-term fetus; and so on.

Anyway, it was quite interesting. And I fear that the hadron collider might totally unintentionally do something similar!

Yea, it was an awesome movie and I saw it when I was really young. It came on cable.

The LHC isn't going to do that.

Also to re-iterate for the other question about black holes expiring: It would basically kill itself. As somebody said, it would dissipate its own mass with radiation within microseconds. Again, mass has everything to do with it. Just as mass had everything to do with the calculations involving the first atomic explosion. They knew exactly how much energy would be created. We know exactly how much energy would be created with a micro black hole. The same applies to creating anti-matter in a collider. We've done that many times. By all accounts, people like some on this blog would have been fearful of blowing up the entire world with a few microseconds of energetic release from three or four anti-protons. It didn't happen. We knew it wouldn't happen. Only people who didn't understand the physics involved thought it might happen.

The physicists knew all along it wasn't going to happen. But they sure were excited to see anti-protons being created. Just as they'll be excited to see micro black holes being created.

247 Clemente  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:53:28am

re: #238 zombie

At the end of it, I utterly support particle physics research. There's nothing happening there, that doesn't happen a trillion, quadrillion times per second just nine light-minutes from us. It's just easier for the folks with polyfoldy-brains to watch it in super-colliders. What they can describe for me, I wanna know .

248 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:54:33am

re: #242 zombie

I also decided not to use the photo of the three squashed rat corpses.

cool, thanks for the self editting!

I keep finding more and more situations where people protest things, based on a view that history started the day they were born.

249 Salem  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:57:01am

re: #100 Johnny 100 Pesos

Hey, Charles started it...or did you ot see his tiresome dig at Discovery?

So why subject yourself to such a tiresome blog?

250 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:58:18am

Ah, finally found that film:

The Quiet Earth

Highly recommended if you can find it!

I've never net anyone who's ever set it (or even heard of it) except me.

251 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 12:59:40am

re: #248 slokat

cool, thanks for the self editting!

I keep finding more and more situations where people protest things, based on a view that history started the day they were born.

it didn't?

/but my therapist told me i was *special*!

252 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:00:11am

re: #250 zombie

Well, I've seen it. It's a great movie. =) I love the first part when he thinks he's completely alone. And then he runs into the woman and the Maori guy and they try to figure out why they are "alive" and no one else is around.

Really fascinating movie. I never forgot it. =)

253 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:00:54am

re: #250 zombie

Yes, now that I see the title and the plot synopsis I remember seeing it as well. I do recall the main character rammed the generator in the end of the movie and awoke to find himself in another world at the end. Really cool concept and I enjoyed it.

254 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:01:18am

Ho-Hum...looks like Boston's getting another championship parade. How many is that? I keep losing track....

255 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:01:45am

re: #251 redc1c4

"special" red?

256 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:02:36am

re: #251 redc1c4

it didn't?

/but my therapist told me i was *special*!

Well we all know that.

257 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:04:28am

re: #246 Summer

Well, I can see how a few atoms of anti-matter couldn't possibly destroy aanything more than a few mirror-image matter atoms, since they'd bonk into each other and go "poof" and essentially evaporate almost instantly.

But a black hole is the opposite of that -- every time it would encounter some mass, it would just swallow up that mass and get bigger.

What I'm hearing here is that we all have absolute faith in "Hawking radiation" emanating from the micro-black hole to such an extent that it would also evaporate very quickly. But if we've never created a black hole before, and if Hawking radiation has never been directly observed, just inferred, in "feral" black holes, then how can we be absolutely 100% sure that it will work as Hawking imagines?

258 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:05:16am

With that, I'm going to go quiet for the night.

I hope everyone sleeps alright without worrying about massive black holes swallowing up your homes. =)

That is...unless you happen to be an electron or something...

259 FamHistoryGuy  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:05:37am

re: #186 zombie

The one lying on the road seems to have missed the fact that she was lying on asphalt instead of dirt. And she expected someone to feed her?

260 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:06:14am

re: #257 zombie

Hawking radiation has never been directly observed, just inferred, in "feral" black holes, then how can we be absolutely 100% sure that it will work as Hawking imagines?

gotta have faith...

/

261 Summer  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:06:27am

re: #257 zombie

I might answer that after I sleep. =)

262 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:06:55am

re: #255 slokat

"special" red?

little yellow wine tasting tour bus and all.... %-)

/yes: we still owe you a check

263 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:10:32am

re: #261 Summer

The suspense is killing us!

/

264 Three Hundred  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:15:06am

Zombie, didn't I see a while ago that you were working on making "nobama" stickers available somewhere, or was that just spoof?

265 slokat  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:16:38am

re: #262 redc1c4

wasn't worried, have only been drinking outa my half...

266 trigger girlie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:17:49am

Too bad there was no bulldozer anywhere around to "fix" her. Then we could enjoy pancakes days more often.

267 Three Hundred  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:18:53am

re: #186 zombie

New at zomblog -- a mini-report on a trivial moonbataganza:

U.C. Berkeley Dismantles Oak Grove “Tree-Sit”

Nothing earthshaking, just more ridiculousness in Berkeley. With a couple of memorable images.

Photo number 1 sums it up nicely. Strong work as usual Zombie.

268 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:19:49am

re: #263 laZardo

The suspense is killing us!

/

better suspense than black holes....

269 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:24:09am

re: #247 Clemente

At the end of it, I utterly support particle physics research. There's nothing happening there, that doesn't happen a trillion, quadrillion times per second just nine light-minutes from us. It's just easier for the folks with polyfoldy-brains to watch it in super-colliders. What they can describe for me, I wanna know .

Oh, I totally support basic physics research too. I am after all just a short distance from Stanford and UC Berkeley -- where the cyclotron was invented!

270 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:24:21am

re: #250 zombie

Highly recommended if you can find it!

Oh ye of little faith...
[Link: www.mininova.org...]
[Link: www.mininova.org...]

271 zombie  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:28:08am

re: #264 Three Hundred

Zombie, didn't I see a while ago that you were working on making "nobama" stickers available somewhere, or was that just spoof?

It was real, but buzzsawmonkey, my partner and front man, has not had the time or gumption to take the final step to make the shop go "live." We'll just have to be patient.

272 Three Hundred  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:29:43am

re: #271 zombie

Thanks for the update.

273 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:48:11am

re: #271 zombie

It was real, but buzzsawmonkey, my partner and front man, has not had the time or gumption to take the final step to make the shop go "live." We'll just have to be patient.

there's always "Plan B"

274 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:55:06am

re: #273 redc1c4

now i've killed the thread.....

what does that say about intelligent design?

/white smoke

275 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:56:33am

Wow- owing to either the lateness of the hour, my celebratory drinking or my dyslexia, I initially thought Zombie was linking to a photo essay on the USS Berkely.

And then I got to wondering what the hypothetical USS Berkley would look like.....probably pink. If there were any 16 or 18-inch guns, they probably wouldn't shoot anything save for a gi-normous NO WAR FOR OIL flag....

276 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 1:59:56am

As dead as this thread is, nobody's too dead to enjoy some fruitcup now, are they?

277 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:00:07am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet -------------------->
Help yourselves!

278 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:01:17am

Fenway! :-)

I'm trying to remember if we have basketball in Philadelphia. We used to...I think. ;-)

Congrats!

279 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:03:32am

re: #276 Fenway_Nation

As dead as this thread is, nobody's too dead to enjoy some fruitcup now, are they?

good thing i spiked it when i did, eh.....

and LoL has no clue, 'cause she dispensed it righ5t on cue.

/evil

280 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:03:44am

re: #278 littleoldlady

Fenway! :-)

I'm trying to remember if we have basketball in Philadelphia. We used to...I think. ;-)

Congrats!


On what? The Red Sox shutting out the Phils last night? That was pretty awesome (gotta love Lester!), but today is the rubber game, LoL

281 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:04:57am

re: #278 littleoldlady

Fenway! :-)

I'm trying to remember if we have basketball in Philadelphia. We used to...I think. ;-)

Congrats!

it was good to see the "great" Kobe taken down.

now if we could just find a team dumb enough to trade for him.... %-)

282 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:05:11am

re: #275 Fenway_Nation

My theory on the appearance of the "USS Berkeley."

283 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:08:03am

re: #282 laZardo

(reading the article)

...Greenpeace? In MY country of residence!?

284 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:09:06am

re: #282 laZardo

My theory on the appearance of the "USS Berkeley."

Damn....where are some Frenchy DGSE agents when you need them?

285 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:09:59am

re: #277 littleoldlady

Always appreciated, and satisfies my craving for munchies as I watch Cyd Charisse (RIP) clips...

286 Ledger1  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:10:38am

re: #193 zombie

Yeah, she was a real drama queen. Trying to act like Isadora Duncan or some tragic heroine. "Oh, the agony of life! I just can't take it any more! I must descend to the ground to recharge my earth-batteries! Oh, and by the way -- could you bring me a brownie or something?"

You could have done something treacherous. You could have said in a convincing voice:

OK, just stay there. I will be back.”

Two weeks later you return...

287 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:10:54am

re: #280 Fenway_Nation

Aha. Thanks for the heads up. I always have to check the Phillies score before calling my brother in NY.

/40+ years of crabby

red! Behave yourself!

/where's BlueCanuck?!

laZardo! :-)

Everyone else! :-)

288 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:12:07am

the new LNDT theme song?

"CHANGE!"

289 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:12:57am

re: #287 littleoldlady

Aha. Thanks for the heads up. I always have to check the Phillies score before calling my brother in NY.

/40+ years of crabby

red! Behave yourself!

/where's BlueCanuck?!

laZardo! :-)

Everyone else! :-)

i *always* behave like myself......

/shesh

290 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:13:06am

From your link, LaZardo

The Rainbow Warrior, piloted by skipper Mike Fincken, docked at the Legazpi City port in Albay on May 22, 2008 for her one month long "Quit Coal, Save the Climate" Philippines tour and campaign aimed to educate people on the effects of the use of coal on the environment, specifically on climate change. The tour proposed alternative energy sources such as geothermal and solar energy.[1]

Coal for brown people = bad
Diesel fuel for honorable, well intentioned, enlightened white people = good.

Propulsion: Two Diesel Deutz M.W.M.
2 x 6 cylinder
2 x 500 KW

291 Cognito  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:13:23am

re: #241 MajorPribluda

You're a pro, cognito. What's the word for a touchy-feely squishy cuddly troll? And I accidentally updinged you. Meant to be down.

May all of your stuffing fall out your seams.

Good evening to you as well, MajorPribluda.

292 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:13:24am

freetoken! :-)

She's dead? (When?) :-(

293 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:14:00am

Ledger1! :-)

294 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:14:12am

re: #287 littleoldlady

Aha. Thanks for the heads up. I always have to check the Phillies score before calling my brother in NY.
Everyone else! :-)

At least he didn't get shitcanned at 3 AM like Willy Randolph did....

295 ebed_melech  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:15:28am

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1.18-21
I think this text applies well here, having considered some of the tactics used, although I acknowledge I have been careless in one of my assertions.

296 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:15:35am

re: #284 Fenway_Nation

Unfortunately, the paper-pushers upstairs rendered them toothless due to the backlash from doing the right thing.

297 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:15:53am

re: #292 littleoldlady

Yesterday, I believe:
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

298 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:18:35am

re: #295 ebed_melech

among other things...... (carelessness, that is. %-)

/green smoke

299 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:19:32am

re: #297 freetoken

Oh man. :-( I saw her in a (fairly) recent interview on TCM. She still looked like a million bucks in her 70's or 80's.

300 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:21:40am

re: #296 laZardo

Unfortunately, the paper-pushers upstairs rendered them toothless due to the backlash from doing the right thing.

They seem to be gung-ho about blowing up some hippie's 2ndhand trawler in New Zealand but seem to hesitate when it comes to sending the Leigon to Afghanistan, Iraq or the Balkans

/I intentionally left out Africa, since they seem to be sending paratroopers to their former colonies (Central African Republic, the Comoro Islands, the Ivory Coast) seemingly once a month...

301 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:21:50am

re: #296 laZardo

Unfortunately, the paper-pushers upstairs rendered them toothless due to the backlash from doing the right thing.

the penalty for unpopular speech is *not* supposed to be death.......

/even in France.

302 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:28:50am

re: #281 redc1c4

it was good to see the "great" Kobe taken down.

now if we could just find a team dumb enough to trade for him.... %-)

Our team (Grizzlies) is pretty damn stupid when trading these days. We'll take him.

Morning red

littleoldlady

Fenway

LaZardo

freetoken

Everybody

Congratulations to the Celtics Nation.

303 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:30:41am

the only down side to the Fakers getting the thrashing they deserved is that, historically, when they've won a championship in an election year, a Republican has won.

/since none are nominated...... %-)

304 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:30:44am

re: #299 littleoldlady

She will be missed. The young ones around here may not be aware (how many people under 30 have even heard of her?), but she was a great dancer. Of Astaire's regular partners I think she was his best match (dance skill wise, though Rogers no doubt had the perfect personality to play off of Fred.)

Some good clips of her and Ricardo Montalban:


305 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:30:57am

DAN! :-)

306 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:32:01am

re: #281 redc1c4

it was good to see the "great" Kobe taken down.

now if we could just find a team dumb enough to trade for him.... %-)

He'll probably demand another trade.....

Just what the world needs......NBA offseason drama.

307 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:36:59am

re: #306 Fenway_Nation

Send him to Miami. Seriously, the Finals would've been much more spectacular if Shaq hadn't been traded...

308 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:37:00am

re: #302 AmeriDan

Good morning.

Would you like some planets with your eggs this morning?

309 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:38:22am

re: #304 freetoken

Singing in the Rain. Unforgettable.

310 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:39:50am

re: #306 Fenway_Nation

He'll probably demand another trade.....

Just what the world needs......NBA offseason drama.

just get him out of LA...... draft choices, popcorn subsidies, extra towels, i'm easy. Lakers to me are Baylor, Chamberlain, West, Goodrich, Harriston, etc..............i want team players.

/drama we have.....
(Brittaney, anyone? %-P

311 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:40:04am

re: #308 freetoken

Good morning.

Would you like some planets with your eggs this morning?

Mmmmm, planets. Love'em, but find they go strait to my thighs.

312 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:41:13am

re: #308 freetoken

In galaxies far, far away...

313 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:44:14am
314 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:46:05am

Morning all. Japanese firm creates 15 inch tall robot for lonely men.

Sega, best known for its home video game consoles, has introduced a 15-inch tall robotic 'girlfriend' that kisses on command... The robot, named "EMA," which stands for Eternal Maiden Actualization, is designed to pucker up for nearby human heads, entering "love mode" using a series of infrared sensors powered by battery. "We wanted to provide a robot that's sweet and interactive," said Minako Sakanoue, a spokeswoman for the maker, Sega Toys to Reuters news agency. "She's very lovable and though she's not a human, she can act like a real girlfriend."
EMA can also hand out business cards, sing and dance.


Because lonely men really want a girlfriend who can sing and hand out business cards.

315 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:46:27am

re: #313 ploome hineni

...nauseating stroking of michelle

[Link: www.iht.com...]


.............oh that poor sweet thing

I just hurled my planets and eggs after reading that.

316 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:47:27am

alternative LNDT theme song......

and i'll keep nominating them until i get a consensus......

/or something else! %-)

317 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:47:33am
Conservative columnists accuse her of being unpatriotic and say she simmers with undigested racial anger. A blogger who supported Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton circulates unfounded claims that Obama gave an accusatory speech in her church about the sins of "whitey."

Wait.....I thought us right-wing kooks and eacists were perpetuauting the myth of the nonexistent 'whitey' tapes.

318 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:48:48am

re: #314 Jim in Virginia

They actually want a little more than that...

/short skirts are equipped standard.

319 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:49:21am

re: #312 laZardo

In galaxies far, far away...

Thirty years and I've still got the hots for Princess Leia.

320 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:50:03am

re: #316 redc1c4

alternative LNDT theme song......

and i'll keep nominating them until i get a consensus......

/or something else! %-)

That one gets my vote! :-)

321 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:50:14am
322 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:50:41am

plooooooooooome! :-)

{My Rove!}

323 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:52:48am
324 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:53:49am
325 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:54:05am

re: #316 redc1c4

alternative LNDT theme song......

and i'll keep nominating them until i get a consensus......

/or something else! %-)

He's a Democrat, but what the heck, I'll vote for Toby. I'm already voting for a Democrat -McCain- for President. Might as well make it a clean sweep.

326 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:55:02am

{littleoldlady}
Howdy ploome!
Got to run, waaaaay too much work to do. Stay safe lizards.

327 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:55:08am

re: #311 AmeriDan

Mmmmm, planets. Love'em, but find they go strait to my thighs.

nothing wrong with strait..... as long as you don't write it down.

328 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:56:16am

re: #312 laZardo

My suspicion is that we will never find such a planet in reality... we could be alone in the universe (to touch briefly on the hot topic from yesterday.) Even if such a civilization existed that could build a city that covered a whole planet, who would want to do such a thing?

329 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:57:22am

re: #323 ploome hineni

she is making sure her thesis is UNAVAILABLE

The two of them must have pretty good throwing arms between what's being thrown down the memory hole and who's being thrown under the bus....

330 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 2:58:21am

re: #324 ploome hineni

:D

FIST PUMP and a little dap

You are so "hip"! ! !. By golly... elect ploome president! From your postings here, you do seem to be more qualified than a certain *ahem* messiah/Manchurian candidate.

331 Macker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:00:21am

re: #314 Jim in Virginia

Morning all. Japanese firm creates 15 inch tall robot for lonely men.
.
.
.
Because lonely men really want a girlfriend who can sing and hand out business cards.

And does it do this too?

332 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:00:29am

re: #328 freetoken

Probably the Trekkies.

333 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:00:36am
334 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:01:07am

re: #330 AmeriDan

You are so "hip"! ! !. By golly... elect ploome president! From your postings here, you do seem to be more qualified than a certain *ahem* messiah/Manchurian candidate.

ANY of us is more qualified!

/sheesh

335 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:01:50am
336 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:03:55am

re: #327 redc1c4

nothing wrong with strait..... as long as you don't write it down.

Heh, it's early. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

But can I check yes or no?

337 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:04:01am

re: #309 littleoldlady

Yeah, that she could hang with both Kelly and Astaire says a lot about her, though in Singing in the Rain that particular scene you linked is not my favorite. I think I prefer this simple fantasy scene.

I really, really like the earlier Astaire/Charisse scene I posted earlier... very good choreography for both of them.

338 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:04:04am

re: #329 Fenway_Nation

Their bus must have a pretty good suspension too given what's been thrown under it.

339 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:06:43am

re: #334 littleoldlady

ANY of us is more qualified!

/sheesh

But... but... ploome did a fist pump and a dap!

/media swoon off

340 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:09:28am

re: #335 ploome hineni

I'm young, I've spent most of my younger years and education in a foreign country, and I often have grand, megalomaniacal visions of a lot of things.

/doppelganger?

341 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:09:36am

re: #337 freetoken

You're right. That scene is better.

342 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:11:20am

re: #340 laZardo

Ruh roh....

343 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:12:39am

re: #342 littleoldlady

Yep. Of course, since I'd be the Opposite Number, I'd need a "redneck" girlfriend or somesuch to cover for me in case things get hairy. >__>

344 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:13:07am

re: #325 AmeriDan

He's a Democrat, but what the heck, I'll vote for Toby. I'm already voting for a Democrat -McCain- for President. Might as well make it a clean sweep.

all the more reason to drink heavily......

.

345 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:15:44am
346 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:16:28am
347 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:16:53am

re: #342 littleoldlady

Ruh roh....

A two person race now is it?

An easy way to settle this is who has the most diverse heritage.

LaZardo or ploome?

/because the's what matters most.

348 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:16:58am

re: #328 freetoken

My suspicion is that we will never find such a planet in reality... we could be alone in the universe (to touch briefly on the hot topic from yesterday.) Even if such a civilization existed that could build a city that covered a whole planet, who would want to do such a thing?

huh? are you mad?

my suspicion is that our search will be limited by E=MC2 for the foreseeable future........unless someone goes OTB to think different, and gets away with it.

349 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:17:36am

re: #346 ploome hineni

ever get that email?

do i know you?

/smoke

350 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:18:26am

Good morning! At the risk of sounding really uninformed, I have a question for the science knowledgeable.
We know that the Universe is constantly expanding. Scientists now say that it will not collapse, but will expand into infinity.
That means that there are boundaries albeit expanding boundaries.
What is beyond the boundaries?

351 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:19:06am

re: #347 AmeriDan

According to family record (i.e. whatever I can scrape up and what my parents/grampies have told me), I've got Portuguese, Chinese and native Filipino heritage.

/mmm, transcontinental. (:

352 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:20:16am

re: #347 AmeriDan

Oh, that's easy. ploome does!

353 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:21:41am

re: #344 redc1c4

all the more reason to drink heavily......

.

Okay, I'll let you know if I agree tomorrow, after I find out what all my friends say.

354 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:25:33am

re: #353 AmeriDan

Okay, I'll let you know if I agree tomorrow, after I find out what all my friends say.

i'll save you some trouble: all my Usenet friends are coming over tonight!

do ya wanna party?

355 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:28:52am

Robert Kennedy jr. is now on Fox & Friends debating energy with Mike Gallagher
He of course opposes off shore drilling & Anwar & nuclear energy.
It may just be his quaverig voice, but his presentation sounds silly.

356 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:29:17am

re: #350 opnion

Classic question, once it was determined that the universe is "closed." From my understanding (no where near complete...), you have three choices:

1. nothing, not even space. Given a closed universe, there is no such thing as an "outside". At one time this was the standard answer.

2. 3 dimensional but totally empty (no material, or even time) Euclidean space;

3. Other universes of possibly different dimensionality. That is, our universe was just a bubble that happened ("created"?) off of another one.

357 jeremy1013  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:29:17am

"Modern Fools. 'Tis claiming the field of engineering has nothing to do with crossing a bridge."

Mereological folly.

358 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:30:27am

re: #346 ploome hineni

my evil twin did...... more responses to follow. %-)

359 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:30:33am

re: #351 laZardo

According to family record (i.e. whatever I can scrape up and what my parents/grampies have told me), I've got Portuguese, Chinese and native Filipino heritage.

/mmm, transcontinental. (:

re: #352 littleoldlady

Oh, that's easy. ploome does!

Sorry LaZardo, I can't give you my endorsement if littleoldlady declares ploome more ethnically diverse.

Unless, of course- and considering the fine melting pot type lineage you have- you can offer me...

CHANGE! ! !

With a large heapin' helpin' of...

HOPE! ! !

/I'm all about the issues

360 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:31:17am

re: #355 opnion

Robert Kennedy jr. is now on Fox & Friends debating energy with Mike Gallagher
He of course opposes off shore drilling & Anwar & nuclear energy.
It may just be his quaverig voice, but his presentation sounds silly.

could be the bullshit nature of his position.......

/just saying

361 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:31:43am

re: #356 freetoken

Classic question, once it was determined that the universe is "closed." From my understanding (no where near complete...), you have three choices:

1. nothing, not even space. Given a closed universe, there is no such thing as an "outside". At one time this was the standard answer.

2. 3 dimensional but totally empty (no material, or even time) Euclidean space;

3. Other universes of possibly different dimensionality. That is, our universe was just a bubble that happened ("created"?) off of another one.


Thank you. Of the three options that you enumerate, I would lean toward #3. it is more logical than the other 2, but.........

362 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:32:44am

re: #350 opnion

You have my assurance that you won't get "more of the same." CHANGE is not just about being different, it's about doing things different and making a difference as well, while respecting the differences of others.

/That's it! DIFFERENCE!

363 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:33:34am

re: #359 AmeriDan

Sorry LaZardo, I can't give you my endorsement if littleoldlady declares ploome more ethnically diverse.

Unless, of course- and considering the fine melting pot type lineage you have- you can offer me...

CHANGE! ! !

With a large heapin' helpin' of...

HOPE! ! !

/I'm all about the issues

besides ploome & LoL are inherently more desirable....

/compared to lazardo

364 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:33:55am

Anybody have quick access to that list of dems vs. repubs in congress over energy votes?

/in the middle of a "discussion" with a moonbat friend...

365 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:34:00am

re: #360 redc1c4

could be the bullshit nature of his position.......

/just saying

Certainly doesn't help him. He just drones on about what he does not like, but offers no alternatives. He just keeps on insisting that we need alternatives.

366 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:34:49am

re: #363 redc1c4

ploome is GORGEOUS.

/as for me...you need glasses!

367 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:35:17am

re: #363 redc1c4

;____; Stop being so closed-minded!

/

//Gotta head home from work, will try to BBL if my new PS3 doesn't go LHC on me.

368 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:35:29am

re: #361 opnion

It is an option that appeals to some but full of problems too... Sean Carroll (google him) is a physicist who lately seems to be pushing this idea.

369 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:35:59am

re: #354 redc1c4

i'll save you some trouble: all my Usenet friends are coming over tonight!

do ya wanna party?

Let's party on, dude! What was I thinking?

370 freetoken  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:36:37am

Good everybody, but I want to leave you all with one more delightful Cyd dance number, again with the dapper Ricardo Montalban.

371 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:36:43am

re: #362 laZardo

You have my assurance that you won't get "more of the same." CHANGE is not just about being different, it's about doing things different and making a difference as well, while respecting the differences of others.

/That's it! DIFFERENCE!

I believe that you may hve responded to the wrong post.

372 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:36:52am

re: #366 littleoldlady

ploome is GORGEOUS.

/as for me...you need glasses!

not necessarily..... i just like Cougars.

373 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:38:19am

re: #368 freetoken

It is an option that appeals to some but full of problems too... Sean Carroll (google him) is a physicist who lately seems to be pushing this idea.

I'll do that. It is really a mind teaser. It appears , that we just do not , at this time have the means to give a definitive answer.

374 laZardo  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:38:34am

re: #371 opnion

Oh.

...

Uh...that was actually a response for all of you guys, and...uh...can't you just let me eat my cereal?

/

//srsly, BBL. Cheers.

375 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:39:56am

re: #372 redc1c4

not necessarily..... i just like Cougars.

Ploome's a Cougar?

376 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:40:00am

re: #374 laZardo

Oh.

...

Uh...that was actually a response for all of you guys, and...uh...can't you just let me eat my cereal?

/

//srsly, BBL. Cheers.

As you were. Have some juice too.

377 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:41:23am

re: #374 laZardo

Oh.

...

Uh...that was actually a response for all of you guys, and...uh...can't you just let me eat my cereal?

/

//srsly, BBL. Cheers.

No waffle?

/suspicious

378 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:41:47am

re: #205 redc1c4

hope is not the best insurance policy available......

/Murphy will not be ignored

Well, the first atmospheric nuclear test didn't ignite the atmosphere, or destroy New Mexico, as Fermi's gallows humor suggested.

Let's give it another shot!

"If my calculations are correct..."

379 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:43:41am

re: #375 AmeriDan

Ploome's a Cougar?

no, but LoL is ......

(you'll *never* look at fruit cup the same way again %-)

380 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:46:45am

re: #379 redc1c4

no, but LoL is ......

(you'll *never* look at fruit cup the same way again %-)

Grrrrrrrr.

381 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:48:33am

re: #350 opnion

Good morning! At the risk of sounding really uninformed, I have a question for the science knowledgeable.
We know that the Universe is constantly expanding. Scientists now say that it will not collapse, but will expand into infinity.
That means that there are boundaries albeit expanding boundaries.
What is beyond the boundaries?


Nothing.

What was in the universe befoer G-d created it?

382 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:48:57am

re: #378 Dar ul Harb

Greetings Dar,

You live in a certain river city, right?

/not a crazed stalker, just trying to set up a dinner with other lizards

383 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:49:47am

re: #381 Jim in Virginia

Nothing.

What was in the universe befoer G-d created it?

franchise stores, malls and parking lots......

/duh

384 littleoldlady  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:50:53am

An old, tired and overly-stressed cougar.

/verybigsigh

Good day, ALL!™

385 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:53:19am

re: #384 littleoldlady

An old, tired and overly-stressed cougar.

/verybigsigh

Good day, ALL!™

but still attractive..... you go girl! %-)

i'm for the rack!

L8r! %-)

386 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:53:26am

re: #378 Dar ul Harb

Guess I need to read a bit downthread before I post...

Good morning, evolved and inhumanufactured lizards.

387 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:53:34am

re: #384 littleoldlady

An old, tired and overly-stressed cougar.

/verybigsigh

Good day, ALL!™

Best wishes for a wonderful day to you, littleoldlady.

388 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:53:53am

re: #381 Jim in Virginia

Nothing.

What was in the universe befoer G-d created it?


To me the whole concept of nothing is mathematical.
it be the absence of elements that make up our Universe, but it seems to me that it has to be something.

389 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:54:25am

re: #385 redc1c4

but still attractive..... you go girl! %-)

i'm for the rack!

L8r! %-)

Later, dude.

390 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:55:16am

re: #382 AmeriDan

You live in a certain river city, right?

The kingdom of Dr. Willie, yes.
LeePro has an email address.

391 opnion  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 3:55:30am

re: #388 opnion

To me the whole concept of nothing is mathematical.
it be the absence of elements that make up our Universe, but it seems to me that it has to be something.


Did i say it be? I mean 'it must be."

392 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:03:25am

re: #390 Dar ul Harb

The kingdom of Dr. Willie, yes.
LeePro has an email address.

Stand by... meeting for drinks, coffee, iced tea, and/or cheap hookers within the next three weeks. On a weekend evening. Maybe early evening.

/the cheap hookers are for me after the meet up... everyone else has to buy their own.

//of course, I'm kidding about the hookers

393 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:07:05am

re: #378 Dar ul Harb

Speaking of "if my calculations are correct..."

From that history of the Trinity Test at the Department of Energy:

Probably the most mundane response of all was Fermi's: he had calculated ahead of time how far the blast wave might displace small pieces of paper released into it. About 40 seconds after the explosion, Fermi stood, sprinkled his pre-prepared slips of paper into the atomic wind, and estimated from their deflection that the test had released energy equivalent to 10,000 tons of TNT. The actual result as it was finally calculated -- 21,000 tons (21 kilotons) -- was more than twice what Fermi had estimated with this experiment and four times as much as had been predicted by most at Los Alamos.
394 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:07:51am

This is just heartless, cruel and wrong. The US government should issue a strongly worded note, at the very least.

Though, to be completely honest, eating that much fat and crap couldn't have been good for the polar bear either. But think of the photo op that was lost.

[Link: news.ninemsn.com.au...]


Police in Iceland were forced to shoot a polar bear that had apparently travelled several hundred kilometres from Greenland atop an ice floe when the animal charged a group of journalists.
395 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:08:21am

re: #392 AmeriDan


On a weekend evening. Maybe early evening.

Ah, too bad.

Lunch would be better for me.

396 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:11:39am

Mr. Obama says that the US has destroyed our credibility around the world. We should listen to him. Mr. Obama is someone who knows a great deal about destroyed credibility.

397 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:14:08am

re: #395 Dar ul Harb

Ah, too bad.

Lunch would be better for me.

Okay, that's helpful to know.

Getting Lizards together at one place is like herding cats... or, uh, lizards for that matter.

/back to the scheduling board at my secret lair

//mom and dad's basement

398 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:16:09am

Too Kewl fer Skewl!

399 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:18:26am

[Link: bp2.blogger.com...]

Were I a responsible journalist I'd wonder how on earth they got reliable data on sunspots back during the 'little ice age'.

But, this data supports my contention that sunspots have more to do with Gorebull Warmening than anything man does, so I'm going to accept this evidence with no tricksey questions.

400 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:19:30am

re: #396 razorbacker

Mr. Obama says that the US has destroyed our credibility around the world. We should listen to him. Mr. Obama is someone who knows a great deal about destroyed credibility.

Not that he had a whole lot to start with in the first place. He's a big balloon that the media- and some other sinister people- are pumping up way beyond his PSI capacity.

BTW... do you cross the river much?

/the big and muddy river

401 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:23:46am
402 galloping granny  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:24:53am

Morning folks.

403 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:27:18am

BBC: Abu Qatada Released On Bail, Under House Arrest

This apparently isn't the first time, either.

Abu Qatada became one of the UK's most wanted men in December 2001 when he went on the run, on the eve of government moves to introduce anti-terror laws allowing suspects to be detained without charge or trial.
In October 2002 the authorities tracked him down to a council house in south London and took him to Belmarsh Prison.
He was eventually freed on bail in March 2005, but was made the subject of a control order to limit his movements.
In August that year he was taken back into custody pending the extradition to Jordan.
404 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:28:08am

re: #401 taxfreekiller

drug cartels from Mexico now control the southern border not the Mexican govt., they control the wage slave trade also, the price for
the ones of terror who will bomb your city is, $10,000 to $15,000 each, then if they have one ton of the bomb material with them its
another $20,000

when will you mow your own lawn, before the bomb goes off or after the bomb goes off?

What cities in North America are being "bombed"?

405 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:28:14am

re: #400 AmeriDan

I used to spend a lot of time in Memphis (at one time Colemans had the very best chain BBQwhich is damning with faint praise, I know. We had good friends there and visited once a month. One died, and the other moved to AR.

Nowadays when I'm in Memphis it's because I've missed the I-55 exit again.

406 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:28:52am

re: #402 galloping granny

Morning folks.

Morning granny!

407 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:31:49am

re: #403 Dar ul Harb

This is the earlier thread about Abu Qatada.

408 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:33:51am

re: #405 razorbacker

Several others and I are trying to schedule a meet up in the area.

Not this weekend, but the next one or the one after that. We're still in the early stages of planning and open to ideas. It could be at a later date too, if it will get more people to come.

409 granitebill  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:36:43am

OT:

Kassams continue...
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

obtw... good morning all....

-granite

410 MajorPribluda  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:37:21am

re: #350 opnion

Good morning! At the risk of sounding really uninformed, I have a question for the science knowledgeable.
We know that the Universe is constantly expanding. Scientists now say that it will not collapse, but will expand into infinity.
That means that there are boundaries albeit expanding boundaries.
What is beyond the boundaries?

Nobody knows. By definition, nothing, but that's a definition. It's not a boundary in the sense that someday we could go and touch it, and but for that boundary would be able to go beyond. The simplest analogy I know is to consider it like an optical illusion, where you can see it, but no matter how close you get, it's always farther away than you thought.

In a certain sense, it doesn't matter what's beyond the boundary--it is not a part of our reality. Frustrating, I know.

411 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:39:46am

[Link: www.weirdasianews.com...]

Dude. I so want that job.

Zapata's Mexican Cantina does not sponsor prostitutes at our establishment. If you are a prostitute please refrain from entering our garden or restaurant. If you are unsure whether or not you are a prostitute, please ask one of our friendly security guards to sort it out for you.

412 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:41:31am

BTW...
Yesterday was the most beautiful weather day I think I have ever lived through in SW Virginia. It was like I lived in San Diego.

Was fabulous!

413 galloping granny  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:41:33am

re: #409 granitebill

OT:

Kassams continue...
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

obtw... good morning all....

-granite

Of course they continue. There is now a "truce" after all.

BTW, did you all notice the bombshell in the link posted above "Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman"? That Obama finished writing Dreams of My Father while living in Bali (after Harvard Law). Anyone know anything more about him living in Bali as an adult?

414 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:42:56am

re: #408 AmeriDan

That sounds like a great time, but it's a little under 700 miles round trip.

Not that I actually have anything better to do, you understand, but still.

415 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:43:07am

re: #409 granitebill

OT:

Kassams continue...
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

obtw... good morning all....

-granite

Well, the truce doesn't officially start until Thursday. I'm sure peace will break out after that.

/clueless off

416 seekeroftruth  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:43:24am

re: #413 galloping granny

Anyone know anything more about him living in Bali as an adult?

That's the first I've heard of Obama living in Bali. I'd like to know more about it.

417 seekeroftruth  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:46:46am

Galloping Granny -
Here's what I've found so far :
[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]
Quoting a NYT article -

The two worked mostly by telephone and by manuscripts sent by Federal Express between New York and Chicago. Mr. Obama, an inveterate journal writer who had published poems in a college literary magazine but had never attempted a book, struggled to finish. His half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, said he eventually retreated to Bali for several months with his wife, Michelle, “to find a peaceful sanctuary where there were no phones.” He showed drafts to a few close relatives including his grandmother, of whom Ms. Soetoro-Ng said, “It probably made her a little nervous, having the family written about, just because you don’t do that in Kansas.”
418 galloping granny  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:48:15am

re: #416 seekeroftruth

That's the first I've heard of Obama living in Bali. I'd like to know more about it.

Google knows all apparently -

[Link: www.balidiscovery.com...]

[Link: www.my-indonesia.info...]

419 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:51:51am

re: #414 razorbacker

That sounds like a great time, but it's a little under 700 miles round trip.

Not that I actually have anything better to do, you understand, but still.

Doh! I assumed you lived closer.

Oh well, the first meet up seems to be shaping up as a, well, ... meet up... to plan a much larger meeting in late summer or fall.

Interested?

420 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:53:41am

re: #419 AmeriDan

Yeah.

421 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:54:41am

AmeriDan, nic is blue. Keep me in mind.

422 seekeroftruth  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 4:57:26am

re: #418 galloping granny

Interesting....

423 galloping granny  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 5:02:31am

re: #422 seekeroftruth

Interesting....

You know what I find most interesting? Look at the quote that you gave -

The two worked mostly by telephone and by manuscripts sent by Federal Express between New York and Chicago. Mr. Obama, an inveterate journal writer who had published poems in a college literary magazine but had never attempted a book, struggled to finish.

And now look at what the original article says (quoting the New York Times) -

He was approached by an agent, Jane Dystel, who got him a contract for a book. Obama missed his deadline, and Dystel promptly got him another contract and a $40,000 advance for the same book.

Who gives an unknown author with no writing experience, who has already missed one deadline, a $40,000 book contract?

424 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 5:02:50am

AmeriDan, if you chose this meeting spot for goodness sake let me know...[Link: www.theospark.net...]

425 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 5:04:49am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. President Bush is considering calling for Congress to lift the moratorium on offshore drilling. That's a good first step. Belated. But good.

Of course, Democrats complain that the drilling wont affect prices for five years. Not entirely true. Sure, the oil wont hit the markets for that long, but the speculators will now have to take into account new oil reserves coming on the market, and the prices will go down because the supply just got larger.

426 pingjockey  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 5:06:50am

Mornin' all. I have AOL for my opening page(don't ask) and apparently some of McCains Navy file is classified secret. They(msm) is in a snit about it. Lets' see Jon Halp Uz Kary has his file completely redone, never sees the light of day and that is okay. McCain on the other hand POW and all the shit he went through, they want to go through his file with a proctoscope(sp). Things that make you say hmmm. Or msm=asshats.

427 AmeriDan  Wed, Jun 18, 2008 5:08:49am

re: #421 razorbacker

AmeriDan, nic is blue. Keep me in mind.

We will keep you informed of all plans. Our RiverLizard cabal does not trust email though. Rove has had his minions watching us for years, afraid of our power.

Check your newspaper each morning and if page A2 has a red check mark at the right-hand top of the page... open and close your blinds in tune with "shave and a hair cut", and wait for a car horn to honk "two bits", then go and... ah, screw it, that's too much work.

I'll just email you later tonight.

428 MandyManners