Typical. What did you expect?

That goes to show that you can't trust an islamo fascist.

Of course. The more we give, the more they want. This sounds familiar. I can't quite place it, but it's on the (Czech) tip of my tounge...

Give them an inch....

Give em an inch and they'll take your country.

No more Mr. Nice Guy.

This is sad.

Isn't different from what Hamas did hours before the "truce", by deliberately sneaking in 29 Qassam rockets at Israel.

Shit.

I just don't know what to say, but it's more than depressing.

I have suspected this for some time, but we are officially living in bizarro world

re: #1 Mats

Typical. What did you expect?

That goes to show that you can't trust an islamo fascist.

We can't trust you, either. You tried to float an outrageous lie in one of the evolution threads, and I haven't forgotten.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The wold has gone nuts

You know I have nothing but the highest regard for you, Charles.

But...

PIMF

Have a nice ride today if you are going!

hezbollah will continue to think they need to maintain their armed resistance until the whole world is islamic and all the Jews are dead.

The sooner Israel and the world realizes this- the sooner we can deal with it.

Appeasement works every time it's tried.....

Surefire prelude to War.

What's worse is Condi was agreeing with them.
She's almost enough for me to want to put one of those bumper stickers with Bush's last day on it, but put it next to a McCain sticker to show I'm not a moonbat. (Probably cause a lot of moonbat heads to explode, though)

Not that her agreement helped; the next day Hizballassholes were throwing things at a US diplomat's car.

The wold has gone nuts

The world has, too.

Note:

The military said at least 40 rockets and 10 mortar shells exploded in Israel by nightfall, an especially high one-day total.

Gotta get those last big shots in, you know.

re: #10 Charles

That's gonna leave a mark!

I am looking forward to Condi running the NFL or getting back into College teaching. Aside from being more attractive than Madaline Notsobright she really has been unimpressive.
I am looking forward to Olmert spending some time behind bars.

Charles,
It wasn't a lie that you linked "God guided evolution" in the same camp as atheistic evolution.
Don't blame others for the fact that the moonbats kept you in the dark as the nature of the issues at hand.

Most people would grow food on the land. I'm sure Hezbollah will grow a nice crop of rocket mortars aimed at you know where.

re: #17 coquimbojoe

That's gonna leave a mark!

Stinky's stick and The Phantom's ring.....

one thing we know, the barbarians will destroy the farms like they destroyed the green houses.
maybe israel should just give the assh*les their best cities.
they obviously don't like farming. lazy bums.

Sheeba Farms belong to SYRIA.

Wold is actually a word

wold
–noun 1. an elevated tract of open country.
2. Often, wolds. an open, hilly district, esp. in England, as in Yorkshire or Lincolnshire.

Maybe Charles was referring to the English countryside?

re: #19 Mats

Charles,
It wasn't a lie that you linked "God guided evolution" in the same camp as atheistic evolution.
Don't blame others for the fact that the moonbats kept you in the dark as the nature of the issues at hand.

You lied about a survey that said the exact OPPOSITE of what you claimed, and you were completely busted on it. Anyone can follow the link I posted and see who's telling the truth.

re: #23 Ben Hur

Sheeba Farms belong to SYRIA.

Well until Syria tried to kick up a fuss and got their asses handed to them on a platter.

re: #21 jcm

Stinky's stick and The Phantom's ring.....

Get out the popcorn, it begins.....

The wold has gone nutz.

How 'bout a dose of reality?

In the successful self-defense of the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel took Shebaa Farms and the Golan Heights from Syria. Lebanon was not a party to the ‘67 war. In 2000, the United Nations confirmed Israel’s complete withdrawal from Lebanon and reaffirmed in 2005 that Israel occupied no Lebanese territory.

/snip...

"For Israel, the Shebaa area is of little strategic importance and has always been subject to return to Syria in peace negotiations. Israel probably would accept an earlier pullback if Syria formally ceded the area to Lebanon. Syria has verbally supported Lebanon’s claim to the area, but it has shunned any official redefinition of its borders [all emphases added] because it still regards the territory of Lebanon, Jordan and Israel to be part of the Greater Syria that existed [in the view of pan-Arab nationalists] before World War I."

You can read the whole thing here. (It's an old article from August 2006.)

don't give them anything israel.
maybe some superior fire power in their direction.
end the problem.

re: #1 Mats

Typical. What did you expect?

That goes to show that you can't trust an islamo fascist.

That's a given, at least for some of us.
It's that you can't trust delusional people like Olmert, who seems to be the voice of his wife.

When I talk to liberals, and I eat my heart out not to, it's seriously scary how oblivious and determined they believe BS of the so-called "conflict", in the Mid-east. Olmert is now one of them.

Charles,
I said "Most american USA doctors deny the FULL BLOWN theory of evolution".
"God guided evolution" is NOT the evolution that evolutionary biologists have in mind when they speak of evolution.

So, my point was right on the issue. You were the one who did not know the distinction between Michael Behe's evolution and Richard Dawkins' evolution.
Like I said, don't blame others for the fact that you did not know the nature of the issues at hand.

Israeli moonbat defends France 2 cause they're "professional journalists," claims anyone who doubts Al-Dura story is a "troofer"

re: #19 Mats

WHAT?

re: #19 Mats

Charles,
It wasn't a lie that you linked "God guided evolution" in the same camp as atheistic evolution.
Don't blame others for the fact that the moonbats kept you in the dark as the nature of the issues at hand.

I see how it works. The poll was good enough for you to cite, until Charles handed your ass to you, and now the same exact poll is moonbats keeping people in the dark.

Well- what I think it is is you're full of it.

re: #32 Mats

I'm stayin' out of this one.

re: #36 Cygnus

I'm stayin' out of this one.

Me too.

re: #36 Cygnus

I'm stayin' out of this one.

Joe and I have popcorn, sit down and watch the fun.

Please, not another ID fight!

re: #36 Cygnus

I'm stayin' out of this one.

Good policy. I've got the popcorn on..... pull up a chair have a drink.

re: #32 Mats

This is an Israel thread. I don't post Israel stuff on evolution threads.

re: #35 Sharmuta

hmm... Not really, but you are free to believe in it.
The point is that Charles put in the same camp "God guided evolution" with "atheistic evolution", and assumed that everyone was was in agreement with both.
When I showed him that most american doctors reject the atheistic version of evolution, he not only did not see his mistake, but says that I was "dishonest".
This is typical moonbat method of debate.

As a proud and patriotic American, I say to the good people of Israel:

Ignore what my gov't is telling you, don't give these bums a f*cking inch!

i probably was already in a melancholy, but this actually brought tears to my eyes.

the world has gone insane.

peace in our time?

certainly - if in our time sharia law has been imposed across the globe, and free thought has gone the way of the dinosaurs.

re: #40 coquimbojoe

Good policy. I've got the popcorn on..... pull up a chair have a drink.

I'll have some Yellow Tail Shiraz, please. Thank you.

re: #40 coquimbojoe

DRINK?!

Mats,

Got a tip for you....

re: #41 Alouette

Charles was the one who started. Ask him.

re: #42 Mats

Damn it, I have been waiting all day for a fresh Israel thread!

Yesterday I saw that Condi was trying to push giving up the 'farms' back to Syria...

I thought this was awful.

I was hoping President Bush would be more pro Israel...but sadly I was proven wrong...

It's moves like this that make me doubt Israel's willingness to take out Iran's nuclear capabilities before it is too late. We certainly won't be allowed to do it by the moonbats in the Dem party, and I think Israel is our last hope on this front. I fear that hope may be fading.

re: #49 Alouette

lol
Alright alright!

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir),

I tend to get deleted when I say similar things, but I'm with you :-)

re: #48 Mats

LOL.

/Where's my popcorn?

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think saying this is counterproductive.....

Expanding on my previous comment (here's the money quote):

It’s true that Hezbollah — listed as a terrorist organization by the United States as well as by Israel — acting for its Syria suppliers and Iranian paymasters, insists it has been "resisting" Israeli "occupation" of Lebanon by attacking Israel’s troops at Shebaa Farms. It’s true that a weak Lebanese government echoes the claim. But it’s false that there are any doubts as to the status of the area — Israel took it from Syria — and before Hezbollah infiltrated Israel on July 12, killed three soldiers, kidnapped two others, and shelled civilians targets in northern Israel, it was false that the Jewish state "occupied" any part of Lebanon. When reporters or commentators refer out of context to "the disputed, Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms" in regard to Lebanon and Hezbollah, they are not practicing journalism but echoing anti-Israel propaganda.

re: #41 Alouette

Actually he/she didn't start it.

I've been off the grid for a while on a R&R mission overseas. Hiking many miles and stuffing my face with good Europeon food.

A few random notes: Some over here are waking up to the Islamofascist threat though they are so suppressed by the governments a wholesale revolution would be needed. The airways are full of leftist crap 24/7 - global warming this, racism that, UN good, Bush bad... it's sickening. Surprisingly, there's less Obama Messiahism than in the US?

Italy beat Fwance and eliminated them from contention - that's good and Holland looks strong too.

As far as Israel goes, I don't wish to comment because it will raise my BP and I'm on R&R...

re: #32 Mats

Charles,
I said "Most american USA doctors deny the FULL BLOWN theory of evolution".
"God guided evolution" is NOT the evolution that evolutionary biologists have in mind when they speak of evolution.

So, my point was right on the issue. You were the one who did not know the distinction between Michael Behe's evolution and Richard Dawkins' evolution.
Like I said, don't blame others for the fact that you did not know the nature of the issues at hand.

You lied about the survey. Blatantly lied. You were caught lying. You have no credibility on this issue.

You said:

Is that why 60% of american doctors reject the full bown darwinian myth?

This is 100% false, and you know it.

Since you're still trying to float the lie, despite being caught red-handed, here's the actual report on the survey, from the organization that conducted it:

[Link: www.hcdi.net...]

NEW YORK, NY, May 23, 2005 – Results of a national survey of 1,472 physicians revealed that more than half of physicians (63%) agree that the theory of evolution is more correct than intelligent design.

The study was conducted by the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Social and Religious Research at The Jewish Theological Seminary and HCD Research in Flemington, New Jersey, from May 13-15. The study was conducted as part of a continuing investigation of the social, political, and economic issues confronting the U.S. health care system. The margin of error for the study was plus or minus 3% at a 95% level of confidence.

The responses were analyzed based on the religious affiliation. Among the findings:

When asked whether they agree more with intelligent design or evolution, an overwhelming majority of Jewish doctors (88%) and more than half of Catholic doctors (60%) said they agree more with evolution, while slightly more than half of Protestants (54%) agree more with intelligent design.

A majority of Catholic doctors (67%) agree with the statement that God initiated and guided an evolutionary process that has led to current human beings, while 11% believe that "God created humans exactly as they appear now." By contrast, less than half of Protestant doctors (46%) believe that God initiated and guided an evolutionary process, while 35% believe that God created humans as they appear now. The majority of Jewish doctors (65%) agree more with the statement that “humans evolved naturally with no supernatural involvement.”

The majority of all doctors (78%) accept evolution rather than reject it and, of those, Jews are most positive (94%), Catholics are next (86%) followed by Protestants (59%).

Half of the doctors (50%) believe that schools should be allowed (but not required) to teach intelligent design.

More than half of Catholic doctors (62%) feel that schools should be allowed (not required) to teach intelligent design, conversely, more than half of Jewish doctors (59%) believe that schools should be prohibited from teaching intelligent design.

When asked whether intelligent design has legitimacy as science, an overwhelming majority of Jewish doctors (83%) and half of Catholic doctors (51%) believe that intelligent design is simply “a religiously inspired pseudo- science rather than a legitimate scientific speculation,” while more than half of Protestant doctors (63%) believe that intelligent design is a “legitimate scientific speculation.”

You're a liar.

"Resistance" will continue.

They will come up with anything and the post-modernists and their candidates will see it, like they do everything else, anyway they cut it.

Just like when Baruch says he's committed to Israel's security.

Being that he's a post-modernist messiah, he will later claim that slicing ISrael in half and dividing J-m for "peace" is the only way to secure Israel.

See? I'm committed to ISrael's security.

re: #42 Mats

No- what you did was get your ass handed to you and offered up obfuscation to cover it. You are dishonest.

This would fall under all the previous 'Land for War' agreements Israel has been part of in the past. Bring down Olmert, now!

re: #55 Cap'n DOC

LOL.

/Where's my popcorn?

I swear to goodness I just smelled some in my cubicle farm!

OT - Some good news for Boeing.

They don't want the Shebaa. They want war. Israel should give it to them.

re: #26 jcm

Sheba Farms USED to belong to Syria. Even the UN does not believe its "disputed."

The testemony of life of Brigite Gabriel is a good resource for anyone interested in seeing the diference between the civilized Jews and the barbaric Muslims.

The only solution is Democracy for Peace.

And the hits just keep on coming:

"Olmert: Israel ready for major concessions"

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

If we don't stop, antisemitism, and appeasement of Islam, are going to be the death of our civilization.

re: #41 Alouette

This is an Israel thread. I don't post Israel stuff on evolution threads.

Aren't you there now? How are things?

re: #64 bosforus

I swear to goodness I just smelled some in my cubicle farm!

You know, fluorescent lights are really devices to suck the life force out of you and cheaply power the building. :P

re: #65 Cygnus

OT - Some good news for Boeing.

KVI / KOMO aviation military analyst this morning said the GAO report was one of the strongest worded slap downs he's seen.

re: #71 TalkinKamel

If we don't stop, antisemitism, and appeasement of Islam, are going to be the death of our civilization.

Now you're talking like me....

Charles,
To be sure, what exacly am I "lying about"?

That the majority of american doctors in the USA reject the atheistic version of evolution?

That the figure is not 60%, but some other?

Can you be more specific, please?

God bless

re: #70 Nevergiveup

sad that it's coming from ynet, too. i love them - and that THEY are reporting this means that there is more than a little truth to olmert's apparent willingness to be the next chamberlain.

re: #29 SlartyBartfast

All of that is absolutely true and goes to the heart of the matter. Hizbullah's longstanding claims is that they are there to resist Israel's involvement in Lebanon, but since the UN reports that Israel is no longer in Lebanon, Hizbullah's reason to exist is no longer there - except that Hizbullah claims that Sheba Farms is part of Lebanon, something which the UN says isn't the case.

It also misses the fact that Hizbullah is following orders from Damascus and Tehran, and it is neither of those country's interests to stop Hizbullah from doing this - it furthers their strategic interests and lets them know just how far they can push Israel. Israel's pushover for a leader, doesn't help matters, since he's determined to make a deal for the sake of dealing, not because it will bring a real peace.

Heck, the border with Syria has been peaceful since 1973, not because Israel has given away the Golan, but because it has held the Golan.

re: #42 Mats

hmm... Not really, but you are free to believe in it.
The point is that Charles put in the same camp "God guided evolution" with "atheistic evolution", and assumed that everyone was was in agreement with both.
When I showed him that most american doctors reject the atheistic version of evolution, he not only did not see his mistake, but says that I was "dishonest".
This is typical moonbat method of debate.

Get the popcorn and a long drink. This should be good.

re: #73 Hard Right

You know, fluorescent lights are really devices to suck the life force out of you and cheaply power the building. :P

Manufactured by the same people who gave us Chemtrails. :P

re: #62 Sharmuta

Feel free to point out my "dishonesty".

re: #78 lawhawk

...Heck, the border with Syria has been peaceful since 1973, not because Israel has given away the Golan, but because it has held the Golan.

hear, hear. that land is so strategically important - there's a reason they are referred to as "heights."

re: #56 psaturn

I think saying this is counterproductive.....

Fighting the enemy is never counterproductive, giving in to them is.

Withdrawal from Shebaa Farms has two benefits for Israel:

1) It strips the mask off Hizbollah and its claim that its arms are only for "resistance" - forcing the Lebanese to face up to them for self-preservation.

2) It strips the mask off Syria's "support" for Lebanon's claim to the area. Syria would have no excuse to refuse Lebanon's demand for sovereignty, so a continued refusal would put even more pressure on Hizbollah.

re: #64 bosforus

LOL. The breakroom in my building is right next door... Why is it that the popcorn smells so good when someone else is cookin' it?

re: #76 Mats

Charles,
To be sure, what exacly am I "lying about"?

That the majority of american doctors in the USA reject the atheistic version of evolution?

That the figure is not 60%, but some other?

Can you be more specific, please?

God bless

Please don't cheapen the term 'God Bless' by using it to poke someone in the eye. THAT is offensive.

re: #76 Mats

Charles,
To be sure, what exacly am I "lying about"?

That the majority of american doctors in the USA reject the atheistic version of evolution?

That the figure is not 60%, but some other?

Can you be more specific, please?

God bless

Mats, do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Results of a national survey of 1,472 physicians revealed that more than half of physicians (63%) agree that the theory of evolution is more correct than intelligent design.

re: #79 Erik The Red

Better not! This will be over soon! Portugal vs Germany on tv in some (good) minutes, and I gotta watch it !

re: #60 Charles

And that's doctors being politic, I doubt that more than the skimpiest few doctors give any thought to the matter, and probably don't even know that ID is a serious idea for anybody.

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fighting the enemy is never counterproductive, giving in to them is.

That I have no argument with....

re: #88 Mats

Run away!

Guys, it's really unfair to hijack this thread about Israel, and then because one Intelligent Design supporter comments, you throw it at them and blame them for starting it, here.

Regardless of what I believe in (evolution) - just let it go folks, and move it back to its designated thread... this is so messed up.

re: #86 coquimbojoe

Please don't cheapen the term 'God Bless' by using it to poke someone in the eye. THAT is offensive.

It's even worse than poking me in the eye -- he's pretending to be a pious believer, while at the same time he's lying right to our faces.

re: #88 Mats

Better not! This will be over soon! Portugal vs Germany on tv in some (good) minutes, and I gotta watch it !

Typical moonbat shit. Start a fight and than run when your ass is fried.

re: #81 Mats

Feel free to point out my "dishonesty".

It's completely dishonest that a belief in evolution in inherently atheistic.

re: #87 vxbush

Like I said previously, the research, and by implication, Charles, put together the "God guided evolution" with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". If you split those two, you'll see that "only" 38% (said by memory) agree with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". The remaining either believe in "God guided evolution", or in ID, or in Creation.

re: #93 Age Of Freedom

Guys, it's really unfair to hijack this thread about Israel, and then because one Intelligent Design supporter comments, you throw it at them and blame them for starting it, here.

Regardless of what I believe in (evolution) - just let it go folks, and move it back to its designated thread... this is so messed up.

Agreed. I have given all this a lot of thought lately, and I'm probably going to post something to my blog before long.

re: #91 ploome hineni

wondering when i'd see you on the thread.

join the party. charles is busy doing to some troll-ish boychik what israel OUGHT to have done to hamas/hizbollah/et. al. a long time ago.

In Thursday’s New York Times, Nicholas Kristof makes clear who he thinks are to blame for Hamas’ rockets (and, need we remember, bus bombings, shooting attacks and civil war with Fatah): Israeli and American hard-liners:

If the U.S. and Israel had formed a Joint Commission to Support Hamas Extremists and Bolster Iranian Influence, they could hardly have done a better job. The episode is the latest evidence that hard-liners in Israel, Palestine and America all reinforce each other. Arab terrorism led to the rise of Israeli hawks and to two invasions of Lebanon. The first Israeli invasion helped give birth to Hezbollah, and then the Israeli assaults on Palestinian police helped nurture Hamas.

So while Israelis denounce Hezbollah and Hamas, they helped create them. And while Palestinians denounce the separation barrier, their suicide bombings built it.

Kristoff concludes: “We should talk to Hamas, not because negotiations will necessarily get anywhere, but because a failure to negotiate will necessarily get nowhere.”

Huh?

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

re: #92 debutaunt

Sounds like he's willing to stick around for the Duck Soup.

Still, how can we be sure that this addresses the root causes™ of the resistance? Quick Condi....the checkbook! Oh, and they'll need more guns to protect their social programs.

/

re: #91 ploome hineni

As if the UN, EU, or anyone else for that matter would suddenly say, "ohmygosh, you're right, Hizb'Allah isn't just fighting to keep Israel out of Lebanon. Israel, you just go right ahead and defend yourselves as you see fit. We're right behind you!"

Sadly, maddeningly, I don't see this happening.

re: #84 stuiec

Withdrawal from Shebaa Farms has two benefits for Israel:

1) It strips the mask off Hizbollah and its claim that its arms are only for "resistance" - forcing the Lebanese to face up to them for self-preservation.

2) It strips the mask off Syria's "support" for Lebanon's claim to the area. Syria would have no excuse to refuse Lebanon's demand for sovereignty, so a continued refusal would put even more pressure on Hizbollah.

The UN of all places has already determined that Israel does not occupy any part of Lebanon. The way Hizbullah has phrased this, they're now doing Syria's bidding by claiming that Israel occupies the Farms and they'll continue on their destructive path until Israel relinquishes control. Hizbullah moved the goalposts, and the Israelis are going along with this - Olmert and Livni in particular.

re: #94 Charles

It's even worse than poking me in the eye -- he's pretending to be a pious believer, while at the same time he's lying right to our faces.

Sad.

re: #96 Sharmuta

Really? So why do people like Will Provine, an evolutionary atheist, say it is? Why did Richard Dawkins say that evolution made it possible to be an intelectually fullfilled atheist?
Those are THEIR terms, not ours.

re: #80 Cygnus

Manufactured by the same people who gave us Chemtrails. :P

I KNEW IT! It's part of the ZOG, Trilateral commission, Bildergerger, 9/11, JFK, alien, freemason group.

re: #98 Mats

Like I said previously, the research, and by implication, Charles, put together the "God guided evolution" with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". If you split those two, you'll see that "only" 38% (said by memory) agree with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". The remaining either believe in "God guided evolution", or in ID, or in Creation.

And as I pointed out, you are simply parroting propaganda directly from the Discovery Institute.

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

re: #108 Mats

Really? So why do people like Will Provine, an evolutionary atheist, say it is? Why did Richard Dawkins say that evolution made it possible to be an intelectually fullfilled atheist?
Those are THEIR terms, not ours.

OURS! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA

bbl

Mats, there's another thread for this. If you move, Charles can see you posting there with the spy thing. And vice versa.

巴勒斯坦哈马&# 26031;亚辛抵抗运 160;论坛

re: #98 Mats

Like I said previously, the research, and by implication, Charles, put together the "God guided evolution" with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". If you split those two, you'll see that "only" 38% (said by memory) agree with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". The remaining either believe in "God guided evolution", or in ID, or in Creation.

Sigh. I don't want to do this....This is an Israel thread, after all.

But Mats, the article that was linked to by Charles and which is supposedly your source does not mention the *entire* population of doctors when comparing "God-guided evolution." It only mentions Catholic doctors. Without seeing all the data, your position cannot be justified based on that article.

re: #109 Hard Right

I KNEW IT! It's part of the ZOG, Trilateral commission, Bildergerger, 9/11, JFK, alien, freemason group.

And funded by the BushitlerHalliburten cabal.

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

巴勒斯坦哈 马斯亚辛抵 抗运动论坛

Watch your language!

re: #108 Mats

I see- so they can't mix their lack of faith with evolution, but you can claim others mixing their faith WITH evolution to make your point. You're also a hypocrite.

#108 Mats So now Will Provine is an expert on metaphysics and religion?

Get a life. All that shows is that an atheist evolutionary biologist thinks evolution is inherently atheistic. I say: Evolutionary biology was G-d's gift to atheism.

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

巴勒斯坦哈 马斯亚辛抵 抗运动论坛

...and same to you.

re: #115 vxbush

Catholic Doctors? I thought all doctors were Catholic...

/ducks

re: #101 MJ

Well while we all talk, they build up their arms catches and capabilities. Don't ya get it?

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

巴勒斯坦哈 马斯亚辛抵 抗运动论坛

Wo can bu dong.

re: #78 lawhawk

Heck, the border with Syria has been peaceful since 1973, not because Israel has given away the Golan, but because it has held the Golan.

Great point!

re: #73 Hard Right

You know, fluorescent lights are really devices to suck the life force out of you and cheaply power the building. :P

That's why as soon as I sit down I get on lgf. It's like a syringe with a USB connection.

re: #101 MJ

Kristof's history is a little fuzzy because he ignores the reason why Israel had to invade Lebanon in the first place - the PLO - Arafat's PLO, continued their war against Israel from Lebanon, their home until they were uprooted forcibly. Hizbullah was, and remains, a pawn of the Iranian mullahs and Syrian. They are not some homegrown resistance, but rather a proxy army that has subsumed a nationalist message of resistance.

I have errands to do over lunch. Later, folks.

re: #107 coquimbojoe

Sad.

Worse....
Damaging. So of us, I know you and I try, to keep the debate civil.
We believe that in long run, it is more productive to keep it so.

re: #104 godfrey

As if the UN, EU, or anyone else for that matter would suddenly say, "ohmygosh, you're right, Hizb'Allah isn't just fighting to keep Israel out of Lebanon. Israel, you just go right ahead and defend yourselves as you see fit. We're right behind you!"

Sadly, maddeningly, I don't see this happening.

agree
when has it ever happened no matter what israel gave up?
waiting for an 'ahh ha' moment from the spectators is absurd.

re: #117 Cygnus

And funded by the BushitlerHalliburten cabal.

And their war for oil, fame, fortune, luxury, and prunes.

re: #116 ploome hineni

Even if they change religions, the problems would remain. Being "Jewish" hasn't made some Jews support Israel. Being "Christian" hasn't turned some people into Jew haters.

There is something deeper.

re: #110 Charles

How can it be propaganda, if it is true? The majority of USA medical doctors do not endorse the atheistic version of evolution. The majority of them subscribe to theistic evolutionism, ID or Creation.

Now, if you put together the "God guided evolution" with the atheistic evolution, then,yes, the majority suports "evolution". But as I said right from the start, the full blown, atheistic, public school aprooved, ACLU-aprooved, NAS aprooved version of evolution is rejected by the majority of medical doctors in the USA.

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

巴勒斯坦哈 马斯亚辛抵 抗运动论坛

Palestinian Resistance Movement Forum?

re: #18 TimK

I am looking forward to Condi running the NFL or getting back into College teaching. Aside from being more attractive than Madaline Notsobright she really has been unimpressive.
I am looking forward to Olmert spending some time behind bars.

She missed her chance at running the NFL, as Roger Goodell will probably be in charge for some time.

re: #133 Mats

How can it be propaganda, if it is true? The majority of USA medical doctors do not endorse the atheistic version of evolution. The majority of them subscribe to theistic evolutionism, ID or Creation.

Now, if you put together the "God guided evolution" with the atheistic evolution, then,yes, the majority suports "evolution". But as I said right from the start, the full blown, atheistic, public school aprooved, ACLU-aprooved, NAS aprooved version of evolution is rejected by the majority of medical doctors in the USA.

You are totally shameless.

Back on topic, isn't this just another merit badge project for our head girl scout, Condi?

re: #12 Sharmuta

Once they git rid of the infidel they will then be free to fight it out between the Shia and the Sunni. Then the winners of that battle will fight among themselves as to who is more devout. Never ending war and misery.

One must continue to feed the demon.

re: #126 bosforus

That's why as soon as I sit down I get on lgf. It's like a syringe with a USB connection.

Saves on tinfoil. :)

re: #129 jcm

Worse....
Damaging. So of us, I know you and I try, to keep the debate civil.
We believe that in long run, it is more productive to keep it so.

Amen. Why can't we just agree to disagree on some things and then move on?

Olmert gives away Israel a foot at a time, while Condi leads the Palis in a rousing rendition of We Shall Overcome.

re: #133 Mats

How can it be propaganda, if it is true? The majority of USA medical doctors do not endorse the atheistic version of evolution. The majority of them subscribe to theistic evolutionism, ID or Creation.

Now, if you put together the "God guided evolution" with the atheistic evolution, then,yes, the majority suports "evolution". But as I said right from the start, the full blown, atheistic, public school aprooved, ACLU-aprooved, NAS aprooved version of evolution is rejected by the majority of medical doctors in the USA.

So you support off shore drilling?

re: #115 vxbush

It mentions Jewish doctors, Protestant doctors, besides the Catholic medical doctors.

It mentions others as well.

Man to blame for Iowa flooding!
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Enshayan, director of an environmental center at the University of Northern Iowa, suspects that this natural disaster wasn't really all that natural. He points out that the heavy rains fell on a landscape radically reengineered by humans. Plowed fields have replaced tallgrass prairies. Fields have been meticulously drained with underground pipes. Streams and creeks have been straightened. Most of the wetlands are gone. Flood plains have been filled and developed.

[deleted]

re: #133 Mats

If you insist on digging ever deeper the hole you're in - go ahead.
But kindly do it on the relevant thread.
Its beginning to annoy me quite seriously.

re: #136 Charles

lol

re: #141 Ward Cleaver

Olmert gives away Israel a foot at a time, while Condi leads the Palis in a rousing rendition of We Shall Overcome.

Pretty good summation I think.

What part of "Thou shall not bear false witness" do the DI proponents fail to understand?

re: #98 Mats

Like I said previously, the research, and by implication, Charles, put together the "God guided evolution" with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". If you split those two, you'll see that "only" 38% (said by memory) agree with the "Richard Dawkins evolution". The remaining either believe in "God guided evolution", or in ID, or in Creation.

Fellow, if you have an argument, please give exact quotes and point to your sources.

What about Stephen J. Gould evolution?

re: #142 Nevergiveup,

Drill now! Earth First!

Stripmine the other planets later.

:-)

re: #138 FamHistoryGuy

Once they git rid of the infidel they will then be free to fight it out between the Shia and the Sunni. Then the winners of that battle will fight among themselves as to who is more devout. Never ending war and misery.

One must continue to feed the demon.

I against my brother.
I and my brother against our cousin.
I, my brother, and our cousin against the world.

And so it goes...

re: #141 Ward Cleaver

Olmert gives away Israel a foot at a time, while Condi leads the Palis in a rousing rendition of We Shall Overcome.

Its called 'salami tactic', what olmert does, the communists are past masters in that.
He needs to be stopped.

re: #133 Mats

What we call Man's power over Nature turns out to be a power exercised by some men over other men with Nature as its instrument.

C. S. Lewis

re: #130 nyc redneck

It is absurd. Israel, with our support, will determine the right time -- as they did recently by smoking some Syrian real estate -- the world will wail and gnash its teeth -- and Israel will survive and prosper. With our help, it won't have to bleed too badly for it. It sucks, but that seems to be the best the world has been able to do for Israel lately.

Israel's surrounding context sucks. Instead of changing Israel, change the context. That's part of what we're about, and I'm all for it. The sooner those sick and depraved ME regimes can fall into ruin and death, the better.

In a related note, if this truce holds, it puts to bed the lie that Hamas could not clamp down on rogue elements and stop the bombardment of Israel. It simply wasn't in their interests to do so before, and that it is now is telling.

It tells me that Hamas was hurt badly, and needed a breather. Israel is giving it to them instead of putting the hurt on Hamas thugs. This is a big mistake, and the Israelis will compound it by negotiating on the Golan return.

re: #144 bosforus

Man to blame for Iowa flooding!
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

[deleted]

Yeah, why don't just stop eating!

Self-determination for the Tallgrass Prairies!

(lies down on alphalt to get close to the ground)

re: #148 Thanos

What part of "Thou shall not bear false witness" do the DI proponents fail to understand?

It's astounding, isn't it? And even when the truth is posted right there in front of them, they just keep lying.

re: #147 Nevergiveup

Pretty good summation I think.

I want to vomit when she tries to equate the "palestinian struggle" with the civil rights movement.

re: #4 redheadredstate

Give em an inch and they'll take your country.

NOT ONE INCH!

Don't mean to hijack this thread, people. But blatant liars really offend me.

re: #144 bosforus

It is true that man has reshaped much of the Mississippi/Missouri River Valley - changing the hydrology and shape of the region. It's also true that the government's answer to earlier floods was to get the Army Corps of Engineers to build levees - thousands of miles of levees.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that we see major flooding after major rain events. Those levees can be overtopped and breached. And they will in the future too, because we as a nation chose to develop those lands for crops and chose to fortify the river in place instead of allow localized flooding on an annual basis.

The wold has gone nuts.

Revolving title nomination.

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fighting the enemy is never counterproductive, giving in to them is.

Talking about fighting--not so productive.

re: #151 ploome hineni

What Israel needs for a decisive win is for the US and its allies (including some regional partners) to sneak in there and vaporize whatever capatability Iran is counting on to sucker punch Israel. That's what those Iranian freaks want: they think that a bigger bat will do the trick this time.

They'll be wrong, and it will be a fine satisfaction to see the combined IAF and USAF video.

re: #159 Ward Cleaver

I want to vomit when she tries to equate the "palestinian struggle" with the civil rights movement.

You must be loosing weight?

I had a very depressing incident happen to me at a Federalist Society meeting on Tuesday: a jerk started calling Bush a "lush" and a "draft dodger" (I think he had Bush confused with clinton!) and then stated (looking at my Star of David) that "W. does what the Jews tells him to do". Oh, really: then why is W. pressuring Israel and demanding NOTHING, NOTHING FROM THE ISLAMOFASCISTS. I told the jerk off and walked away but in retrospect, I wish I had slugged him. This is the mentality we are up against.re: #28 itellu3times

re: #167 Nevergiveup

You must be loosing weight?

Skin-and-bones.

re: #164 smokin' hamster

wold n : a tract of open rolling country (especially upland)

re: #158 Charles

It's astounding, isn't it? And even when the truth is posted right there in front of them, they just keep lying.

Do you think its possible that in his mind he does not actually think he is lying?

re: #171 greygandalf

Do you think its possible that in his mind he does not actually think he is lying?

I can't guess what's in his mind.

Hey, giving up Gaza and Northern "west bank" turned out so well....why NOT do it again? /

ot:

Hamas seems to be using its "hudna" time well.

As if Israel negotiating with Hamas, and surrendering to Hiz'b'amalek wasn't enough....while all this is going on...they beat up on their own citizens.

Ot of my ot:

Arab Editor: "Obama's Support for Israel is Only Lip Service".

If Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh were running for President of the United States, he would support Israel, an Arab newspaper editor wrote. More

re: #159 Ward Cleaver
She is a sick, stupid, stupid woman.

re: #168 Alibaba

You could slouch like Bob Dylan and snarl, "I don't believe you! You're a liar!"

If the jerk is of the right age, this might be sufficiently confusing.

re: #166 godfrey

What Israel needs for a decisive win is for the US and its allies (including some regional partners) to sneak in there and vaporize whatever capatability Iran is counting on to sucker punch Israel. That's what those Iranian freaks want: they think that a bigger bat will do the trick this time.

They'll be wrong, and it will be a fine satisfaction to see the combined IAF and USAF video.

If only it was that easy.

Repost from the previous thread.

Hmmmmmm.... Hamas letting Israel do its dirty work for them?

Dughmush's death pleases both Fatah, Hamas

Many Fatah and Hamas activists in the Gaza Strip have expressed relief over the death of Mu'taz Dughmush, one of the commanders of the Army of Islam terrorist group, who was killed by an IAF strike on his vehicle Tuesday.

Rumors in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday had it that Mu'taz had been killed as part of the Egyptian-brokered cease-fire agreement between Hamas and Israel. According to the rumors, Hamas, which was desperate to get rid of the Army of Islam, decided to "give away" Mu'taz as a sign of the movement's seriousness in striking a deal with Israel.

I'm not Jewish but I have close Christian friends who live in Israel. They are former Muslims who converted to Christianity. They come to America a couple of times a year to sell their handcrafted crosses, creches and Christian souvenirs because they no longer can make a living selling them in the holy land. They have received death threats, had their house vandalized and their children bullied. This is to me the whole Israel situation in a nutshell. I've always thought of Israel as the lone voice of reason surrounded by seas of insanity. The Israeli government gave these wackjobs some "land for peace" and they came in and destroyed the greenhouses and property that was on it rather than try to use these items to make a living. Then they screamed that they were starving and needed aid. Absolute madness. If more is given to them then more will be demanded. I agree with the above poster NOT ONE INCH!

re: #176 Hard Right

With the stakes as high as they are, I'm open to a margin of error.

re: #163 lawhawk

True. I'm not doubting the facts of the article. I'm angry at the guilt being thrown on 'man' for the consequence of committing the crime of providing for itself.

Today 3 more rockets were fired into Israel from the Shebbaa Farms area by unknown militants.

Might as well get the headlines ready in advance.

re: #84 stuiec

with all due respect, thinking like that is akin to saying that if Israel lays down and is murdered, it will show the world how mean and rotten Hamas and Hezbollah is.
the world knows how anti jew they are, they don't care, and secretly hope that Hezb and Hamas finich the job that hitl-r started.

re: #158 Charles

It's astounding, isn't it? And even when the truth is posted right there in front of them, they just keep lying.

For some it is a huge leap of "faith" so to speak, so I beg patience.

I'm included in this as an ID person with a graduate degree, as is my husband, Dr. Songbird (not a medical doctor, but an engineer), but that does not mean we don't look at both sides or that we won't respect those who believe something other than what we believe.

Some have much more difficulty accepting and respecting opposing views, especially on something that touches their worldview so closely.

re: #136 Charles He/she is not just totally shameless - having been asked by several LGFer's to NOT HIJACK THIS THREAD, he/she continues to do so.
I'm frankly amazed at your willingness to let him/her continue with it.

re: #179 godfrey

With the stakes as high as they are, I'm open to a margin of error.

Too spread out, too well protected. Some of it is so far underground, nukes can't get to them.

re: #101 MJ

this is what passes for "intelligent" leftist thinking, Norm Chumpsky would be proud.

re: #171 greygandalf

Do you think its possible that in his mind he does not actually think he is lying?

I think he's being obfuscatory and he knows it. Look at how he answered me when I said evolution is not inherently atheistic- by pointing out two atheists who say it is. How many Christians would disagree with him? Too bad there's not a poll that asks that question.

Oh, wait! There is- Charles posted it and it shows mats is wrong. People of faith believe in evolution!

re: #184 songbird

For some it is a huge leap of "faith" so to speak, so I beg patience.

I'm included in this as an ID person with a graduate degree, as is my husband, Dr. Songbird (not a medical doctor, but an engineer), but that does not mean we don't look at both sides or that we won't respect those who believe something other than what we believe.

Some have much more difficulty accepting and respecting opposing views, especially on something that touches their worldview so closely.

Honest disagreement is one thing, but lying over and over about the very clear results of a survey is quite another.

re: #129 jcm

Worse....
Damaging. So of us, I know you and I try, to keep the debate civil.
We believe that in long run, it is more productive to keep it so.

Absolutely. Nothing can be gained, no discussions won, with rancor.

re: #66 godfrey

They don't want the Shebaa. They want war. Israel should give it to them.

Amen.

re: #184 songbird

For some it is a huge leap of "faith" so to speak, so I beg patience.

I'm included in this as an ID person with a graduate degree, as is my husband, Dr. Songbird (not a medical doctor, but an engineer), but that does not mean we don't look at both sides or that we won't respect those who believe something other than what we believe.

Some have much more difficulty accepting and respecting opposing views, especially on something that touches their worldview so closely.

This charmer just seemed to want a free argument.

Its not just giving up land...the sheeba farms are pretty much the "terrorist playground" in the middle east. (like that planet in Star Wars with the bar scene)

Those who believe that Iraq's WMD were smuggled out before OIF, believe they were brought to Sheeba Farms.

So not only is Israel giving up land for no good reason, it is allowing Hiz'b'amalek controll over the next "AQ's Afganistan".

re: #190 Charles

Honest disagreement is one thing, but lying over and over about the very clear results of a survey is quite another.

I concur. No messing with documentation!

The title of this thread seems premature. Israel has not quit the Shebaa Farms yet.

re: #178 redheadredstate

I'm not Jewish but I have close Christian friends who live in Israel. They are former Muslims who converted to Christianity. They come to America a couple of times a year to sell their handcrafted crosses, creches and Christian souvenirs because they no longer can make a living selling them in the holy land. They have received death threats, had their house vandalized and their children bullied. This is to me the whole Israel situation in a nutshell. I've always thought of Israel as the lone voice of reason surrounded by seas of insanity. The Israeli government gave these wackjobs some "land for peace" and they came in and destroyed the greenhouses and property that was on it rather than try to use these items to make a living. Then they screamed that they were starving and needed aid. Absolute madness. If more is given to them then more will be demanded. I agree with the above poster NOT ONE INCH!

Thank you for this excellent post.

ot:

ID discussion has become Ron Paul. Its leaking onto every thread it seems.

re: #194 debutaunt

This charmer just seemed to want a free argument.

I'm agreeing with you, and would not be surprised if Charles gives him the boot the next time he flares up.

How can any sane, rational person be fooled by the continued pants dance with a TERROR organization? Even a cursory look at the history of Israel and palestine will show that appeasement and negotiation is hopeless.

Ultimately, the breaking point will be reached, and Israel will resolve this mess, as she should have done long before. I feel nothing for the palis,I see the coming ferocity as a necessary thing, perhaps with the terrorist hold broken the palis can escape their prison existence that has been promulgated by ALL of the terror groups out front and behind the scene.

#199 mama winger

Coming from you that is praise indeed! Thank you.

re: #203 redheadredstate

You are welcome. What you said there is important.

re: #161 Charles

Don't mean to hijack this thread, people. But blatant liars really offend me.

At times like this I ask myself: "What would Will Munny do?"

And the answer comes floating up at me, "Ban him and be done with it."
Now if only it were my blog...

re: #190 Charles

Honest disagreement is one thing, but lying over and over about the very clear results of a survey is quite another.

I don't understand what he thinks there is to gain from his mendacity. People with degrees believing or not doesn't make a thing more or less true (It is a matter of faith). If you believe, knock yourself out, if you don't, likewise. One gains from being educated on the other side of the question, no gains are made from being mendacious and argumentative.

re: #194 debutaunt

This charmer just seemed to want a free argument.

Sorry, that'll be five pounds.

/monty python reference

re: #200 WrathofG-d

ot:

ID discussion has become Ron Paul. Its leaking onto every thread it seems.

When I was in Aberdeen, Md this weekend, I did not see the giant Ron Paul sign on the back of the pickup truck - could have just moved off Route 40 though.

And chief Hezbollah spokesman Hassan Ezzeddin stated in a 2002 interview that:

If they go from Shebaa, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine. (The New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

Once they succeed in destroying Israel (God forbid), their next target is Spain, errr...Andalusia. They've said as much.

re: #138 FamHistoryGuy

Once they git rid of the infidel they will then be free to fight it out between the Shia and the Sunni. Then the winners of that battle will fight among themselves as to who is more devout. Never ending war and misery.

One must continue to feed the demon.

re: #208 madisonsfriend

When I was in Aberdeen, Md this weekend, I did not see the giant Ron Paul sign on the back of the pickup truck - could have just moved off Route 40 though.

How were things in MD? We're headed out there for a vacation next week.

re: #208 madisonsfriend

When I was in Aberdeen, Md this weekend, I did not see the giant Ron Paul sign on the back of the pickup truck - could have just moved off Route 40 though.

There's a guy in my town (he's a crank) that has a huge hand-painted (I have to admit, he did a good job) red-white-and-blue Ron Paul sign on his property. I gotta look today and see if it's still up.

re: #206 coquimbojoe
I think that he feels that if he just says it often enough it will be true. I mean, I think that's how he feels, and ya know that's all that counts, not truth, not honest disagreement, just how HE feels.
If mats is female, please change the "he" to she.

re: #209 godfrey

And chief Hezbollah spokesman Hassan Ezzeddin stated in a 2002 interview that:
If they go from Shebaa, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine. (The New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

Just figured that quote needed emphasis.

You are 100% correct however, they have always been very clear about their intent, as have the PLO, and Hamas. Israel is only fooling herself.

re: #196 ploome hineni

I think the issue is teaching ID in public school as science

people can and do teach anything they want as religion

DING DING DING DING DINNER BELL DING!!!!

re: #197 songbird

I concur. No messing with documentation!

In all this and long prior to all the discussions here. I came to a few conclusions.

1) I believe the Bible is the Word of God, accurate and internally consistent as a spiritual text.

2) The physical evidence that science discovers, is what it is.

3) If my spiritual beliefs, and scriptures are what I believe them to be. Then God would not falsify, or place misleading material in nature.

That leaves only one place to go. That when there appears to be a disconnect with scripture and science. It is not scripture that needs to be questioned, or the science either. But our human interpretations of scripture and evidence. We get so wrapped up in OUR interpretations, that we cease to seek God and the truth.

re: #74 jcm

KVI / KOMO aviation military analyst this morning said the GAO report was one of the strongest worded slap downs he's seen.

Not so good news if, like me, your job is depending on that work. I was supposed to begin work on parts of the software suite in mid August.

It makes me sick that Boeing gets a do-over after the deal they reached in 2003 that turned out to be an unethical mess. You must remember that one, where the Air Force official in charge of it went to jail, and Boeing's CEO was forced to resign. Due to Boeing's mishandling of this from the very start, the tanker replacement program is 5 years behind schedule and who knows how much more expensive. Now it is going to be further behind schedule and even more expensive. Just how much longer are those Boeing-707 airframes of the KC-135s going to be in the air?

Not to mention, Northrop has the better solution. Boeing knew the conditions of the contest and tried to deliver the "just good enough" solution with a plane that should be going out of production.

re: #144 bosforus

Man to blame for Iowa flooding!
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Was he jewish? Because we do control the weather.

re: #200 WrathofG-d

ot:

ID discussion has become Ron Paul. Its leaking onto every thread it seems.

GOD PAUL!

RON PAULMIGHTY!

EVOLUTION REVOLUTION!

LETTERS OF MARQUE! AND MATTHEW!

#216 jcm

1) I believe the Bible is the Word of God, accurate and internally consistent as a spiritual text.

2) The physical evidence that science discovers, is what it is.

3) If my spiritual beliefs, and scriptures are what I believe them to be. Then God would not falsify, or place misleading material in nature.

That leaves only one place to go. That when there appears to be a disconnect with scripture and science. It is not scripture that needs to be questioned, or the science either. But our human interpretations of scripture and evidence. We get so wrapped up in OUR interpretations, that we cease to seek God and the truth.

Excellent post!

re: #211 songbird

How were things in MD? We're headed out there for a vacation next week.

We have had some storms but nothing terrible and the weather has been lovely the past few days.

re: #216 jcm

In all this and long prior to all the discussions here. I came to a few conclusions.

1) I believe the Bible is the Word of God, accurate and internally consistent as a spiritual text.

2) The physical evidence that science discovers, is what it is.

3) If my spiritual beliefs, and scriptures are what I believe them to be. Then God would not falsify, or place misleading material in nature.

That leaves only one place to go. That when there appears to be a disconnect with scripture and science. It is not scripture that needs to be questioned, or the science either. But our human interpretations of scripture and evidence. We get so wrapped up in OUR interpretations, that we cease to seek God and the truth.

Well said.

re: #223 madisonsfriend

We have had some storms but nothing terrible and the weather has been lovely the past few days.

That's great! My husband's parents are in Frederick so we'll be there for a bit and then to the Virginia Northern Neck. We have a good friend with a house on the bay - our very favorite vacation spot!

It saddens me to say this...but...

GWB has not been a great presidency for Israel. His heart may be in the right place, but the too many countervailing infuences like Bush Sr/Baker Texas oil cabal and their Saudi partners on the one hand, and the faux-Republicans like Condi and Powell,have emasculated his
pro-Israel tendencies.

We might as well have Obama if Rice is gonna keep pressing Israel.

re: #66 godfrey

They don't want the Shebaa. They want war. Israel should give it to them.

England has been offered a choice between war and shame. She has chosen shame and will get war.

--Winston Churchill

Those who fail to learn from history...

re: #216 jcm

In all this and long prior to all the discussions here. I came to a few conclusions.

1) I believe the Bible is the Word of God, accurate and internally consistent as a spiritual text.

2) The physical evidence that science discovers, is what it is.

3) If my spiritual beliefs, and scriptures are what I believe them to be. Then God would not falsify, or place misleading material in nature.

That leaves only one place to go. That when there appears to be a disconnect with scripture and science. It is not scripture that needs to be questioned, or the science either. But our human interpretations of scripture and evidence. We get so wrapped up in OUR interpretations, that we cease to seek God and the truth.

Nicely put. I see God in both nature and Scripture. As I said once before, I'm more interested in the Rock of Ages than the age of the rocks.

Re # 228 Cygnus

I'm more interested in the Rock of Ages than the age of the rocks.

Damn, I wish I'd said that! That's good.

re: #230 redheadredstate

Damn, I wish I'd said that! That's good.

It's an oldie but a goodie. BTW, I'm an OEC myself but see no point in getting up blood pressure up arguing about it.

re: #232 Cygnus

It's an oldie but a goodie. BTW, I'm an OEC myself but see no point in getting up my blood pressure up arguing about it.

PIMF!

The U.S. is pressuring them on this? I thought the U.S. and U.N. signed of on the border in terms of Lebanon after Israel pulled out? They said the Shebaa Farms negotiation would be Syria, not Lebanon! What is wrong with our State Department? They are such a bunch of wimps!

We need an IBD editorial on this if any of you guys are here...

Wasn't this thread a discussion of Hezbollah's strategy? If so, I can sum it up. They seem to have two approaches to negotiating with the Israelis:

A) Meet our demands or we'll kill you.
B) Meet our demands, then we'll kill you.

It's not really rocket surgery is it?

re: #156 lawhawk

In a related note, if this truce holds, it puts to bed the lie that Hamas could not clamp down on rogue elements and stop the bombardment of Israel. It simply wasn't in their interests to do so before, and that it is now is telling.

It tells me that Hamas was hurt badly, and needed a breather. Israel is giving it to them instead of putting the hurt on Hamas thugs. This is a big mistake, and the Israelis will compound it by negotiating on the Golan return.

(An excellent point that bears repeating.)

re: #65 Cygnus

OT - Some good news for Boeing.

The trouble is that we are getting sooooooooo far behind on tankers. Also, the govt is forcing Boeing, not to mention their subs (including small businesses) to spend mega$$ on these selection processes. I wish McCain could have brought down the cheaters (individuals) the first time through without resulting in this problem for military readiness.

I'm not sure that Israel is alone in it's inability to define and recognize the Islamic beast-fighting on behalf of the whole Islamic world to kill or convert every last Jew and infidel (until the 'believers' start killing each other as they do elsewhere).

When you have someone like President Bush dancing with Saudi Princes, and a Secretary of State doing everything in her power to hasten the creation of an official Palestinian terror state-it shows that the rot is deep.

re: #210 Pyrocles

Once they succeed in destroying Israel (God forbid), their next target is Spain, errr...Andalusia. They've said as much.

That AL ANDALUS, you infidel dog!

/

re: #84 stuiec

Withdrawal from Shebaa Farms has two benefits for Israel:

1) It strips the mask off Hizbollah and its claim that its arms are only for "resistance" - forcing the Lebanese to face up to them for self-preservation.

2) It strips the mask off Syria's "support" for Lebanon's claim to the area. Syria would have no excuse to refuse Lebanon's demand for sovereignty, so a continued refusal would put even more pressure on Hizbollah.

The minute Israel "gives" Shebaa Farms to Lebanon, Syria will say, No it's ours" and Israel will be in conflicts still. The answer is to stand up to these zero-value-to-the-world lowlifes in Hezbollah and tell them to butt out. It needs to be the U.S. State Dept, if not the U.N. doing this. The U.S. is Lucy. Israel is Charlie Brown. The "punch list" is the football.

re: #239 WriterMom

You're absolutely right. It's not just Israel. Look at our own United States---not to mention France, England, Canada, who seem determined to kid themselves that "Peace in our times" can be won by kow-towing to Oil-ticks, and forcing Israel into more and more concessions. And, of course, they'll never believe the jihad is worldwide, oh, no, no, no, no, no! It's all Israel's fault (according to them), and if we just give the Palestinians a state, all will be fine and dandy, and the jihad will just go away. . .

I think part of the problem (not all of it, but some) is the constant idealization of terrorists such as Arafat, despots such as the House of Saud---in short, the Islamic world in general, that's been going on in the Western press since around 1970.

P.S. I love the link you sent me! Many thanks!

:>)

re: #216 jcm

That's nicely put.

I need religion for my soul and my brain. I need information, science and discovery-and what I see as divinely bestowed human curiosity and intellect for my body and soul, too. I don't need my faith defined by 'science' or psuedo science. And as far as I can see-there has been very little discussion of what would happen if locally grown, or imported Wahabi Imams were allowed to present their concept of creation - or "intelligent design" in public schools. Not that scientists are infallible. I just read about a study today that suggested that about 40% of researchers have had 'issues with data falsification or PhotoShop embelishment of research photos. And, let's not forget that ulcers were once thought to be caused by stress and that it was a ridiculous ideas for midwives and doctors to wash their hands before delivering babies.

This is to say that ideas, science, opinons evolve (LOL-loaded word) all the time. But the things that have to do with belief, I want to teach my children myself. The question of WHY we are here is between us, our children and Hashem-in my opinion. The questions of HOW can be addressed by people in different ways.

re: #226 littleben

It saddens me to say this...but...

GWB has not been a great presidency for Israel. His heart may be in the right place, but the too many countervailing infuences like Bush Sr/Baker Texas oil cabal and their Saudi partners on the one hand, and the faux-Republicans like Condi and Powell,have emasculated his
pro-Israel tendencies.

We might as well have Obama if Rice is gonna keep pressing Israel.

DEAD WRONG.
American diplomacy may speak or deal stupidly under any president.
In fact, it's a pretty good bet that it will.
But I have no doubt McCain will use the big stick of military force if necessary.
And I believe Obama will eat a waffle.

I haven’t even wanted to write about this latest episode in folly, because it’s so maddening and depressing

And you deleted my link post about it a few days ago.

Granted, my characterization of Condoleeza's sucking up to Hizbollah was mildly distasteful (ok, offensive), but the issue is real.

The US has sucked up to Hizbollah (with Olmert willingly going along as the corrupted vassal he is) in the most shameful manner.

I'm sure they have their rationales, hoping to get Assad to turn into a good boy, etc., but really . . . .

re: #244 wolfie

DEAD WRONG.
American diplomacy may speak or deal stupidly under any president.
In fact, it's a pretty good bet that it will.
But I have no doubt McCain will use the big stick of military force if necessary.
And I believe Obama will eat a waffle.

Its not at all clear that McCain will appoint the right people to his cabinet. Look for more of the same Baker, Powell, Rice types with some cross-dressers from the Dems who may evn be worse.

At least with Obama in office, you know that the Repubs will out likud Likud for brownie points.
I am not voting for Obama. My point is that we pro-Zionists have not fared well under the 12 years of Bush, while the left gets away with their propaganda that the vast Zionist conspiracy controls our foreign policy.
Israel has traditionally been under the greatest pressure during Republican adminstrations; Eisenhower force Israel to return the Sinai; Nixon immediately upon election put forth the Rogers plan, the first push to return the liberated areas; The Bushes we know about. Reagan was the only exception to the rule.

Why has there no been no action to resolve the kidnapped Israeli soldiers from 2006? The media has ignored them for years! The international community should be ashamed.

Udi Goldwasser and Eldad Regev - kidnapped by Hezbollah in 2006
Gilad Shalit - kidnapped by Hamas in 2006

I am sooo looking forward to all the moonbats at Stanford protesting war criminal Condi Rice's teaching there, that she will have to resign, or the university will fire her for the disgrace that she has become in the last two years.
Israel must stand firm on Shebaa since it is part of Israel proper. But there appears no depth to the perfidy of the Kadima Government and its traitor Olmerde. Giving up Shebaa would be no different from giving up Kiryat Shemona and will only embolden even more bloodshed.
Only tools in the Kadima Party would not foresee that.

re: #218 CyanSnowHawk

Not so good news if, like me, your job is depending on that work. I was supposed to begin work on parts of the software suite in mid August.

It makes me sick that Boeing gets a do-over after the deal they reached in 2003 that turned out to be an unethical mess. You must remember that one, where the Air Force official in charge of it went to jail, and Boeing's CEO was forced to resign. Due to Boeing's mishandling of this from the very start, the tanker replacement program is 5 years behind schedule and who knows how much more expensive. Now it is going to be further behind schedule and even more expensive. Just how much longer are those Boeing-707 airframes of the KC-135s going to be in the air?

Not to mention, Northrop has the better solution. Boeing knew the conditions of the contest and tried to deliver the "just good enough" solution with a plane that should be going out of production.

Late getting back to you....

Boeing made the bed they are lying in, no doubt about that.

The Air Force and congress put off replacement tankers for way too long.

My biggest concern with the EADS / Northrup concern, and in may not be a problem. Is that the tankers are absolutely vital to our national defense and strategy. The concern is if EU (EADS) gets really pissed at us and cancels or delays deliveries or support will that effect our ability to get and keep tankers in the air?

Littleben you must be joking. The biggest threats to Israel came under Djimmah Carter and Bill Clinton. Bush, until the past two years have supported Israel more than any president since Richard Nixon.
You need to get the facts. The second lowest moment was in fact Pres Bush Senior, who allowed that antisemite Baker to run his foreign policy. Baker and Breznev (carter's Secy State) are two of the three worst foreign policy advisors in the past forty years (the third being Warren Christopher). What do you have to do to drive a stake through the heart of this triad of horror?

re: #226 littleben

It saddens me to say this...but...

GWB has not been a great presidency for Israel. His heart may be in the right place, but the too many countervailing infuences like Bush Sr/Baker Texas oil cabal and their Saudi partners on the one hand, and the faux-Republicans like Condi and Powell,have emasculated his
pro-Israel tendencies.

We might as well have Obama if Rice is gonna keep pressing Israel.

Isn't Rice only doing what her boss tells her to do?

re: #106 lawhawk

The UN of all places has already determined that Israel does not occupy any part of Lebanon. The way Hizbullah has phrased this, they're now doing Syria's bidding by claiming that Israel occupies the Farms and they'll continue on their destructive path until Israel relinquishes control. Hizbullah moved the goalposts, and the Israelis are going along with this - Olmert and Livni in particular.

But this is precisely my point. Israel being out of the Shebaa Farms means that the lie of Hizbollah that "its arms are solely for resistance to the Zionist occupation" will be fully debunked. The Lebanese, of course, have already seen a great part of that lie stripped away as they saw Hizbollah use its arms against other Lebanese to prevent the Lebanese government from firing the head of Beirut's airport security and from dismantling the Hizbollah private phone system.

Further, by withdrawing itself from the question, Israel forces the Syrians to show their hand: do they cede Shebaa Farms to Lebanon, or do they renew their claim to the territory? If the latter, will Hizbollah defend the right of the foreign power (Syria) to strip territory from the homeland (Lebanon)?

The question has never been whether Hizbollah has the ambition to become a legitimate political party in a pluralistic Lebanon. The question has always been when the Lebanese would admit to themselves that Hizbollah's sole aim and purpose is to turn Lebanon into a Shi'ite theocracy.

"Israel is being pushed by the U.S. . . . " = "Israel is being pushed by Condoleeza Rice"

Here, as in "Israel does such-and-such . . . " a nation and its people are being equated with a particular officeholder.

That is, admittedly, a natural loquation but, but the effect to present an individual officeholder or functionary as equivalent to and acting on the will of the people.

Even when the will of "the people," insofar as it can be perceived through surveys of opinion, is against the doings of a particular officeholder and/or policy, that policy is attributed to the nation as a whole.

It is a standard loquation, but the effect is an equation of Condoleeza Rice=United States, and Ehud Olmert=Israel.

It can reasonably said that such individuals are acting on behalf of the nation -- whether the nation likes it or not -- but it would be more clear and more fair to attribute paticular acts to the individual perpetrating them.

re: #253 Clio

It can reasonably said that such individuals are acting on behalf of the nation -- whether the nation likes it or not -- but it would be more clear and more fair to attribute paticular acts to the individual perpetrating them.

Nations, particularly democratic ones, are held responsible for the actions of their leaders, and of course suffer the consequences of the actions of their leaders (as do all peoples).

Their tolerance for the actions of their leaders is naturally a reflection of them, in the sense that 'people elect them, and get the governments they deserve', etc.

In the case of Israel, which is only weakly democratic, and certainly not a 'representative' government, you have a point. There is no mechanism by which the population can recall a detested, incompetent leader short of criminal indictment, I think.

So if a leader in Israel goes crazy or acts in a manner 180 degrees away from the platform he campaigned on, it is just tough shit for the voters.

Israel really needs a reworking of its electoral system. The 'party lists' mechanism is for the birds. It recycles the same losers, cycle after cycle. Similary, the proportional party system guarantees every little nutball party crucial to a coalition a veto.

Sigh.

There is the real goal of the leadership of the jihad terrorists, which includes the elimination of the Jewish state. That goal of eliminating Israel does not change, regardless of what Israel does.

There is the ability of the jihad terrorist leadership to bring followers under their control and influence, from within the ummah. As bin Laden said, people follow a strong horse, rather than a weak horse. So if Israel, or any others in the free world, make concessions that the jihad terrorist leadership can claim as being the result of their work -- and they always claim kafir concessions as being the result of their work -- then they appear to be a stronger horse, and they gain followers under their control and influence.

There is the capability of the jihad terrorist leadership, and their followers, to advance toward their goals. The concessions that they demand are always those that advance their capabilities to pursue their real goals, no matter what pretext they use. In the case of Sheba Farms -- which Israel knows as Mount Dov -- the land of Mount Dov is elevated, and it is closer to populated areas of Israel than land further north in Lebanon, so it is better suited as a weapons platform for shooting rockets and missiles against populated areas of Israel.

The demand du jour is part of the propaganda war that the jihad terrorist leadership wages. Its main target consists of the useful idiots that believe that the demand du jour is the final demand, or is close to the final demand, or that giving in to that demand somehow lessens the demands that will be made in the future. They do not. The ultimate demands of the jihad terrorists are unappeasable.

An example of useful idiots falling for the demand du jour is that when Israel pulled some 8000 Israelis out of the Gaza Strip, as well as pulling its defense forces out of the Gaza Strip, to end the "occupation" there, the useful idiots of the editorial board of The New York Times hailed that as the dawn of peace. But actually, it was the turning point for a huge escalation of rocket fire into Israel, which has resulted in some 3,000 rockets being fired into Israel from the Gaza Strip. That's because the goal of Hamas, like the goal of Hizballah, includes eliminating Israel. If the demand du jour is met, they get more followers (in the Gaza Strip, the Palis were so excited that they voted Hamas, the terrorists who made the strongest claim for obtaining the concession, into legislative power); and they gained the opportunity for acquiring a lot more weaponry by tunnels and by other means, and they gained more opportunity to fire rockets into Israel.

The world hasn't gone nuts Charles. When you satisfy all the terrorists putative demands, they demand more.

And that is the problem.

Instead of folding to their wishes, we need to be sending them to their 72 raisins or sturgeons or virgins. We need to stop pandering to killers, and start reducing their number, culling their herd.

This is evolution in action. Those who want to survive to the next round need to fight. Those who don't follow Europe.

"Britain, EU, and President Bush announce new sanctions against Iran over its nuclear program intransigence. But the group gets implementation backwards in announcing a freeze on Iran’s Bank Melli assets before putting the freeze in place, allowing Iran to withdraw $75 billion in assets before action."

could this be stupidity or are they purposely letting the cat out of the barn?

re: #246 littleben

Its not at all clear that McCain will appoint the right people to his cabinet. Look for more of the same Baker, Powell, Rice types with some cross-dressers from the Dems who may evn be worse.

At least with Obama in office, you know that the Repubs will out likud Likud for brownie points.
I am not voting for Obama. My point is that we pro-Zionists have not fared well under the 12 years of Bush, while the left gets away with their propaganda that the vast Zionist conspiracy controls our foreign policy.
Israel has traditionally been under the greatest pressure during Republican adminstrations; Eisenhower force Israel to return the Sinai; Nixon immediately upon election put forth the Rogers plan, the first push to return the liberated areas; The Bushes we know about. Reagan was the only exception to the rule.

I'm sure McCain will appoint plenty of the wrong people... but none of them will be as wrong as Zbigniew Brzezinski who is likely to outright promote a pro-Iran policy, as he did under Carter

A Republican opposition in Congress will still have little to no impact on foreign policy, giving Obama and his merry moonbats a clear field for doing everything Carter didn't get a chance to do

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

巴勒斯坦哈 马斯亚辛抵 抗运动论坛

re: #121 Hard Right

...and same to you.

he said:

"Palestinian Resistance Movement Forum"

in Chinese.

WTF?

If Israel leaves Shebaa Farms, there will be no hope of an agreement woth Hezbollah, just a capitulation. That will be the end of Israel.