I saw that on FOX the other day, what a whacko!

This guy sounds like a nutball.

That device sounds friggin scary.

He should be fired regardless of his views for abusing a student like that.

I'm glad he was fired. He used his position to bully and abuse kids. Any teacher that does this should be shown the door and never allowed to teach again.

I just heard on the radio here in Ohio this afternoon that he has not been fired, but should be next month, just for clarification.

I'll see if I can dig up a link.

He probably should have been fired a long time ago since they've had complaints about this preacher...oops, teacher for several years.

This Freshwater story is a bit murky. We should dive deeper and attempt to get to the bottom of it

When Creationists go wild!

Here it is:

[Link: www.wtam.com...]

The school board has voted on an "intent to terminate" decision, and he will still get a hearing before them.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

You would think a Christian would know better to harm even a hair on a child. Guess I must have missed the verse in the Bible that said he could abuse another person's child.

Burn a cross into a student?
Assault!
Jail time is in order.

I might be Christian, but this twit would be praying the cops got him before I did if this were my kid.

Right -- he isn't quite fired yet. I don't think anyone doubts he will be, though.

science is wrong because the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin and so anyone who is gay chooses to be gay and is therefore a sinner.”

I've read this several times and each time I read it , it makes less and less sense to me.

This man needs a psychiatric evaluation. Seriously

He physically abused his students isn't that a crime?

re: #12 Shug

I've read this several times and each time I read it , it makes less and less sense to me.

This man needs a psychiatric evaluation. Seriously

ah the old people choose to be gay argument, i don't know if he knows many gay people but i worked with tons and i seriously doubt anyone is not born gay.

Wacky. As a Christian, I'm embarrassed. Sounds like he has a relgious obsession which is in the DVM-IV for the first time:

The proposal to include religious problems was made by Dr Francis Lu, associate clinical professor of psychiatry at the University of California Medical School, San Francisco, who approached the manual's task force in December 1991. He believed that people with religious or spiritual conflicts were being misdiagnosed as suffering from psychoses with religious content. The task force approved the proposal in January last year. Last May the board of trustees and the assembly of the American Psychiatric Association gave their approval to the new section.

A patient could be classified as having an isolated religious or spiritual problem; a religious problem with an unrelated mental disorder; or a religious problem with a related mental disorder. These categories fit in with others such as marital problems and educational problems, which are seen as problems of living as opposed to mental disorder.

re: #9 Sharmuta

You would think a self-professed Christian would know better to harm even a hair on a child. Guess I must have missed the verse in the Bible that said he could abuse another person's child.

Just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one.
I can stand in my garage but it doesn't make me a car.

re: #11 Charles

He'll probably get moved into an "administrative" position.

Translation: Given a big raise and hidden out of sight.

He's a Christian Jihadi.

Except, of course, there is no Biblical basis for this, neither are there any Christian academic institutions, media outlets, political groups, or governments, of any appreciable size which would support his behavior (in burning crosses into the arms of children).

re: #11 Charles

Right -- he isn't quite fired yet. I don't think anyone doubts he will be, though.

Agreed. I was just pointing it out because I literally heard it an hour or so ago.

I wish they didn't have to wait a month to make this official. Is this some sort of union reg?

Good riddance to a genuine whack job. But I can't help but think, if only school boards were as prompt in firing other abusive and incompetent teachers that infest public education.

Oh man, and I thought the FM station was going to
keep rolling the Obama hits all day long and nothing but Obama.

Saw it on Fox - the student with the cross burned onto his arm is going to sue the school.

I wonder if he'd be able to get a job at the discovery institute.

See ya, get these clowns out of our schools. Maybe we can go back to teaching the three R's

Reading
wRiting
aRithmetic

I can hope can't I...

Reminds me of my 8th grade science teacher back in 1952. He was kindly old gent named Oliver Love, a good science teacher until he got started on the subject of evolution then he'd get very serious, hold up the bible in one hand and the science text in the other and say, "If you believe this one you can't believe that one." We students just considered him a dotty old man with some strange ideas. He never abused the students or burned crosses into their bodies. I never had a teacher that was that crazy. We never had female teachers who wanted to have sex with their male students and nobody ever brought a gun to school.

Kook...

re: #23 Sharmuta

I wonder if he'd be able to get a job at the discovery institute.

Sharm, you hater you.

re: #24 Bogeyfre

See ya, get these clowns out of our schools. Maybe we can go back to teaching the three R's

Reading
wRiting
aRithmetic

I can hope can't I...

Sex ed is important so people know what to do....jeeeez, do I have to do all the thinking here?

OT: I just posted a question for Charles thread in the, but when I hit the post button, there was a new thread. Even thought this is OT, I hope you will allow me tho repeat the question here:

re: #34 Beobachter

Charles, while you are improving the web site, may I make a suggestion? I asked about this before and then per all your alls help, discovered the 'new comments' button. Would it be possible for you to hook up the same kind of link refresh to the refresh button in the related links section. Oftentimes, I find myself poking through the related links and hitting the refresh button quite frequently to see if there are new links. While doing this, I have missed new threads frequently.

re: #20 Paul

Good riddance to a genuine whack job. But I can't help but think, if only school boards were as prompt in firing other abusive and incompetent teachers that infest public education.

Actually- they weren't very prompt. The administration had been getting complaints on him for 11 years, but I guess it took out right child abuse to get him fired.

He's demonstrated no respect for the rational divide, so he has no business being a public educator, even less a science teacher. He has taught his students one lesson he hadn't counted on, though.

re: #23 Sharmuta

Maybe he'll be featured in Ben Stein's next movie.

re: #27 DistantThunder

Sharm, you hater you.

Yeah- next thing you know, I'll quote the koran or some such madness.

This is retro madness

Religion should be harmless

Voluntary
Self-directed
& Harmless

Or it is not worth the effort.

Prison time for Mr. Freshwater seems to be in order.

I had a science teacher that brought a hand cranked DC generator to class one day. We macho 7th grade boys all tried to stay standing while we held electrodes in each hand and he cranked faster and faster.
Good times.
True story.

/ It hurt like hell, you couldn't help but drop to your knees, and it was physically impossible to let go.
He kept his job, but a buncha parents were not happy when their sons came home and bragged about how long they were able to be 'electrocuted' in front of the class. Not one girl volunteered. I didn't last too long before I dropped and I had to wipe my eyes when it was over.

re: #18 Pastorius

He's a Christian Jihadi.

Hardly. He gave a kid a tattoo. It doesn't even say if the kid wanted it or not (which doesn't excuse him if he did, that's not a decision for a kid.)
Fire him, sue him, great, but! Involuntary tattoo =/= missing head.

#16 The Parson

Just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one.
I can stand in my garage but it doesn't make me a car.

I don't buy that arguement. That's the same argument Muslims use. When one of their own does something of which they do not approve, they simply say, "He isn't a Muslim. No Muslim would do such a thing."

Not a good answer.

I think the best answer is, he's a sick Christian.

Hey, that guy's high frequency generator better not infringe on the my patented instant stigmata machine.

re: #35 ec marm

I had a science teacher that brought a hand cranked DC generator to class one day. We macho 7th grade boys all tried to stay standing while we held electrodes in each hand and he cranked faster and faster.
Good times.
True story.

/ It hurt like hell, you couldn't help but drop to your knees, and it was physically impossible to let go.
He kept his job, but a buncha parents were not happy when their sons came home and bragged about how long they were able to be 'electrocuted' in front of the class. Not one girl volunteered. I didn't last too long before I dropped and I had to wipe my eyes when it was over.

girls are smarter.. Gonna hurt? No thanks = brainier.

Matt. 13...
24 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way.
26 So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also.
27 And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?
28 He replied to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Then do you want us to go and weed them out?

Matt. 7...
23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].

These two passage show us there are those who say, act and look like Christians, but are not. Rev. Phelps et. al. others who are in for their own personal gain, Benny Hinn et. al. others who preach false gosples Rev. Wright et. al.

While some may truly think they are doing the Lords work, others knowingly masquerade. All will be judge more harshly in the end.

Or in the words of Obama, these aren't the Christians I know, and will end up under the eternal bus.

Freshwater, according to an independent report, used an electrostatic device to mark a cross on the arm of one of his students, causing pain to the student the night of the incident and leaving a mark that lasted for approximately three weeks.

Charles, there seems to be som discrepancy in the technical details of the story. The electrostatic characterization seems to be inconsistent with high frequency. Anyone have more info on the device used?

/ had a course in electrostatics

Semi-OT: Education....
Shut up! Women teachers told their constant talking puts boys off school work

Celia Lashlie, an education adviser and author, said women should 'step back and shut up' in the classroom.

Instead of talking constantly, they should communicate with their pupils using non-verbal cues, such as a raised eyebrow. Female teachers should allow boys to be boys.

Miss Lashlie, who describes herself as a feminist, added that mothers should not try to run their sons' lives.

'I've been in classes with young female teachers and by the end of the session my ears hurt,' she added. 'Women need to step back and shut up.'

re: #16 theparson

Just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one.
I can stand in my garage but it doesn't make me a car.

But if you're walking down the street and turn into a bar...
What does that make you?

And boy this kind of behavior, you'll never hear the end of it on Pacifica Radio, and to a lesser extent on NPR.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Semi-OT: Education....
Shut up! Women teachers told their constant talking puts boys off school work

I kinda agree that some can be overbearing and controling.

re: #41 abolitionist

The fox story says "high frequency generator".

re: #35 ec marm

sounds like the time my friends got ahold of my taser and decided it would be fun to test it out on eachother.

Teacher Unions will fight to keep him from being fired. Paid leave will be pushed.

This video at Hot Air is just priceless:

Video: Obama supporter shocked to find YouTubers mindlessly cheering his flip-flop on public financing

re: #46 Sharmuta

Thanks, Sharm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

I have often wondered where the gals do find so many words.

I would run out

re: #16 theparson

Just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one.
I can stand in my garage but it doesn't make me a car.

Yeah, but if the car in your garage says it's a Christian...uh, let me work on that a little.

re: #46 Sharmuta

The fox story says "high frequency generator".

Has anybody said it yet?
What's the frequency, John?

re: #35 ec marm

I had a science teacher that brought a hand cranked DC generator to class one day. We macho 7th grade boys all tried to stay standing while we held electrodes in each hand and he cranked faster and faster.
Good times.

My dad brought one home for me to play with. We started booby trapping things around the house (door knobs, railings, etc) and try to shock each other. He took it away after I rigged to toilet and waited for him to pee.

re: #49 Beobachter

This video at Hot Air is just priceless:

Video: Obama supporter shocked to find YouTubers mindlessly cheering his flip-flop on public financing

He really is in mom's basement!

re: #45 DistantThunder

I have a built in instinct that I tune out with too much talking. Nagging causes a very visceral reaction with me. I've decided to stay single. It's best for everybody.

re: #35 ec marm

I had a science teacher that brought a hand cranked DC generator to class one day. We macho 7th grade boys all tried to stay standing while we held electrodes in each hand and he cranked faster and faster.
Good times.
True story.

/ It hurt like hell, you couldn't help but drop to your knees, and it was physically impossible to let go.
He kept his job, but a buncha parents were not happy when their sons came home and bragged about how long they were able to be 'electrocuted' in front of the class. Not one girl volunteered. I didn't last too long before I dropped and I had to wipe my eyes when it was over.

'

Hmm. Guess the girls had more sense, eh?

Don't high frequency electrostat me bro

By the way, nice clouds today visible from the towercam

re: #49 Beobachter

This video at Hot Air is just priceless:

Video: Obama supporter shocked to find YouTubers mindlessly cheering his flip-flop on public financing

This Obama supporter lives in a basement.

re: #30 Sharmuta

Actually- they weren't very prompt. The administration had been getting complaints on him for 11 years, but I guess it took out right child abuse to get him fired.

Unfortunately, you're right. Here in SE Wisconsin the teachers' union is very strong and it protects its members, no matter how ill prepared incompetent or absent they are. It takes something very serious, as a physical/sexual assault, blatant drug abuse* or overt criminality to get fired.

*Recently, a Milwaukee Public School teacher was arrested for growing marijuana in his house and selling it to students.

OT

The hazards of owning a Big Screen TV.

re: #58 Shug

Don't high frequency electrostat me bro

Fine just stand out of the under this giant silver sphere stacked on ceramic insulator.

At least he didn't bring poisonous snakes into the classroom so that the kids could try to handle them. That would have been an interesting "science" experiment...

[Link: www.rickross.com...]

re: #59 Ojoe

By the way, nice clouds today visible from the towercam

Those are Dihydrogen Monoxide vapors contributing to Global Warming!

re: #62 LeePro

OT

The hazards of owning a Big Screen TV.

An electrostatic generator will fix that, PDQ.

re: #65 Racer X

Those are Dihydrogen Monoxide vapors contributing to Global Warming!

Okay, who put the Dihydrogen Monoxide in my water?

re: #54 Killgore Trout

My dad brought one home for me to play with. We started booby trapping things around the house (door knobs, railings, etc) and try to shock each other. He took it away after I rigged to toilet and waited for him to pee.

OMG ROTLMAO KT!

A friend made one in school back around '75. Transformer, hand crank with gear, and 9V battery mounted a wood block. We would get as many together as we could and see how many people the jolt would travel through. I think we ran out of people before we couldn't feel it anymore.

re: #67 JCM

Okay, who put the Dihydrogen Monoxide in my water?

Up to a billion parts per billion are allowable.

he really sounds like a kook. using a device to burn a cross onto an 8th grade student's arm?
what's next, the rattle snakes in a basket?

re: #68 CyanSnowHawk

OMG ROTLMAO KT!

A friend made one in school back around '75. Transformer, hand crank with gear, and 9V battery mounted a wood block. We would get as many together as we could and see how many people the jolt would travel through. I think we ran out of people before we couldn't feel it anymore.

I had an old army field phone generator, crank on that puppy who put out a nice little zap.

re: #62 LeePro

OT

The hazards of owning a Big Screen TV.

On Live Leak. too.

re: #72 Beobachter

On Live Leak. too.

LOL

re: #69 Racer X

Up to a billion parts per billion are allowable.

Whew, thanks I feel much better know.

re: #74 JCM

Whew, thanks I feel much better know.

PIMF, now....

re: #35 ec marm

I had a science teacher that brought a hand cranked DC generator to class one day. We macho 7th grade boys all tried to stay standing while we held electrodes in each hand and he cranked faster and faster.
Good times.
True story.

/ It hurt like hell, you couldn't help but drop to your knees, and it was physically impossible to let go.
He kept his job, but a buncha parents were not happy when their sons came home and bragged about how long they were able to be 'electrocuted' in front of the class. Not one girl volunteered. I didn't last too long before I dropped and I had to wipe my eyes when it was over.

This is just a hypothesis, mind you, but I think the women save up their pain allocation for meaningful things, like child birth, while the men just waste theirs on things that usually start out with one of them saying, "Hey, check this out."

/

True story:

I worked with a guy who was all into the Earth is only 4000-5000 years old nonsense. He used to bring in these hilarious "scientific manuals" which were nothing more than self published printouts from a home color laser printer. He also wore a cross around his neck that would make the Pope jealous. I entertained some of his conversations just because they were so...entertaining. Unfortunately, he took that as an opening to convert me as I'm sure most people can't control their laughter and maintain a poker face like I can.

Well, it just got a bit much so I finally decided to have some fun. I went to a bead store in a hippie beach area and bought some truly evil looking pendants, skulls, feathers, this satanic looking hand thing holding a globe, etc., and assembled my own gaudy necklace.

No joke...when he saw it when I came to work, he really freaked out and started having all sorts of nervous ticks and mannerisms. His neck, head, eyes, shoulders, everything, started twitching and worse. These movements got so bad over the next few days that he even started stomping his foot uncontrollably like one of those circus shows where a horse supposedly shows it can count.

And naturally, I got into all sorts of trouble for causing his mental breakdown and prolonged absence from work. I'm glad he didn't have any electrostatic tattoo devices nearby, that's for sure.

re: #71 JCM

I had an old army field phone generator, crank on that puppy who put out a nice little zap.

Yup that's exactly what it was.

re: #76 CyanSnowHawk

This is just a hypothesis, mind you, but I think the women save up their pain allocation for meaningful things, like child birth, while the men just waste theirs on things that usually start out with one of them saying, "Hey, check this out."

/

Hey, check this out...
Hey, watch this...
Hold, my beer for a sec...

Freshwater, according to an independent report, used an electrostatic device to mark a cross on the arm of one of his students, causing pain to the student the night of the incident and leaving a mark that lasted for approximately three weeks.

What a monster.  How typical of the IDiot Fundii.  They're lucky they're only being sued.  If Mr. Secretly-Afraid-I'm-Gay had laid one hand on a child of mine, I'd've done my best to send him home to Jesus a tad early.

}:)     [What a maroon!]

re: #54 Killgore Trout

My dad brought one home for me to play with. We started booby trapping things around the house (door knobs, railings, etc) and try to shock each other. He took it away after I rigged to toilet and waited for him to pee.

Hehehe. You probably have a respect for electricity and open circuits that you may not have otherwise experienced. I know I did. Nothing like the experience of it being physically impossible to open your hands while receiving a shock to clue a person in. I went on to several decades of safely working with, and repairing electrical connections. With a respect for electricity I might not otherwise have had. Bad teacher but a good lesson.

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Yup that's exactly what it was.

Such toys would be considered child abuse now, pocket knives, etc... When I was 10 spending a summer in WY with friends we wandered all over the place with .22 rifles.

re: #72 Beobachter

On Live Leak. too.

ROTFLMAO

Cat-Sized Reptiles Once Lived in Antarctica

Cat-sized reptiles once roamed what is now the icebox of Antarctica, snuggling up in burrows and peeping above ground to snag plant roots and insects.

The evidence for this scenario comes from preserved burrow casts discovered in the Transantarctic Mountains, which extend 3,000 miles (4,800 km) across the polar continent and contain layers of rock dating back 400 million years.

OT

A poison known as 1080 is used to control mammal populations. It is particularly useful in controlling invasive species in New Zealand and Australia such as rats, rabbits and possum. Animal Rights activists hate it. So what did a bunch these fruitloops do at a protest in New Zealand? Why they scattered it about the local city park.

Protesters against the use of 1080 poison are believed to have dumped what appear to be 1080 pellets in Christchurch's Hagley Park.

The pellets were found this morning in an area of the park near Harper Avenue.

I wonder if this is the kind of teacher we'd be getting if the ID advocates got their way- one who forced their morality on other people's kids with their declarations of sin....ones who called science "false".

This man harmed his students in mulitple ways. He physically abused them, and he harmed their education. But what's also being missed is these were middle school students. Kids who are at a place in their development that's already pretty awkward for them. How many of his students were gay- and what has he done to them psychologically?

I'm really disgusted by this man's behavior, and I certainly hope any ID advocates out there repudiate this man and not embrace him. He's done your cause a MAJOR disservice.

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I have a built in instinct that I tune out with too much talking. Nagging causes a very visceral reaction with me. I've decided to stay single. It's best for everybody.

Yikes. I thought you might have had a 'peeing' accident.

re: #84 Killgore Trout

They evolved into Leopard Seals right?

I think Charles is right on many levels for shining a spotlight on ID. After all, a big problem with radical Islam is the 'schools' that believe everything you need to know about the World is in the Quran. Thus science and every other discipline are squeezed out, and whole societies suffer. The ID people want to use the Bible as a science text, and don't care about the scientific method because it undermines the 'infallability' of the Bible.

re: #85 Quilly Mammoth

2 legs bad; 4 legs good.

re: #61 Paul

Unfortunately, you're right. Here in SE Wisconsin the teachers' union is very strong and it protects its members, no matter how ill prepared incompetent or absent they are. It takes something very serious, as a physical/sexual assault, blatant drug abuse* or overt criminality to get fired.

*Recently, a Milwaukee Public School teacher was arrested for growing marijuana in his house and selling it to students.

The union sure is being protective of the wrong people.

re: #81 ec marm

Hehehe. You probably have a respect for electricity and open circuits that you may not have otherwise experienced. I know I did. Nothing like the experience of it being physically impossible to open your hands while receiving a shock to clue a person in. I went on to several decades of safely working with, and repairing electrical connections. With a respect for electricity I might not otherwise have had. Bad teacher but a good lesson.

I learned a long time ago; respect electricity, be afraid of ground .
Ground makes the connection and kills you. I've been in a few situations where I had to work around live wires; I always watched what was around me like pipes and sheet metal.

This guy sounds like a real nutball

Ouch... That's gonna leave a mark.

(somebody around here had to be the one to say that)

re: #76 CyanSnowHawk

This is just a hypothesis, mind you, but I think the women save up their pain allocation for meaningful things, like child birth, while the men just waste theirs on things that usually start out with one of them saying, "Hey, check this out."

/

Probably, but one should never, ever underestimate the power of testosterone to compel young males into performing feats of strength(?) before young females. It hurt like hell, and some got bruises, but I can't remember any male member of the class that didn't volunteer.

re: #62 LeePro

OT

The hazards of owning a Big Screen TV.

Media not found...

re: #6 Shug

This Freshwater story is a bit murky. We should dive deeper and attempt to get to the bottom of it

Yes. Even with such an attempt, though, Shug, it is likely the murkiness would persist. The world is like that....

re: #95 debutaunt

Media not found...

Works for me. i just tried it again.

Sigh...

Mo elbaradai goes on about this, and our Lizardoid Master decided to obsess about some teacher in Ohio supporting ID. Gotta fry the big fish first I guess.

Can't we give'em to the VLWC crowd? It's not fair that we have even these few nutcases! Isn't the VLWC crowd supposed to have'em all?

almost darwin award worthy

re: #89 Gordon Marock

I think Charles is right on many levels for shining a spotlight on ID. After all, a big problem with radical Islam is the 'schools' that believe everything you need to know about the World is in the Quran. Thus science and every other discipline are squeezed out, and whole societies suffer. The ID people want to use the Bible as a science text, and don't care about the scientific method because it undermines the 'infallability' of the Bible.

Exactly!

re: #95 debutaunt

Media not found...

Oooops - worked on my second try.

re: #100 gopninja

almost darwin award worthy

that is clever and funny on so many levels

Heres a guy that should have paid more attention to electricity :)

re: Me 98

His house his rules of course, was just hoping the tube was tuned to the game...

re: #94 ec marm

Probably, but one should never, ever underestimate the power of testosterone to compel young males into performing feats of strength(?) before young females. It hurt like hell, and some got bruises, but I can't remember any male member of the class that didn't volunteer.

And it was probably all for the same two (prettiest) girls (in the class).

re: #98 Airborn Swine

Yeah- maybe you missed the part where this guy abused his student.

re: #107 Sharmuta

Yeah I caught it, but had the ID part not been present Big-C would never have given it a second thought.

re: #104 greenmiler

LOL!

I liked the whimper at the very end.

I have no idea why I'm chiming in, because I think we all have better things to spend our time talkng about -- but I always thought that intelligent design was different from creationism?

I thought intelligent design merged evolution with God -- as in the big bang, dinosaurs, millions of years, etc. are all correct but with evidence of a guiding force (i.e., God) from such things as patterns found over and over - Fibonacci's number, the golden ratio, etc. Am I wrong? (I know this is the place to be corrected if I am!)

re: #108 Airborn Swine

Uncalled for.

re: #110 moonstone

Here- read the Wedge Strategy and keep in mind this is a political movement.

I'm of the opinion that ID should be taught in the classroom, along with topics like phrenology and astrology. To a "dictionary" level of understanding. Not an entire semester, or extensive reading or testing, just a general knowledge.
Witness the 'troofers' in our society that are unable to separate wisdom from ignorance. Maybe someone can explain methods to develop critical thinking skills without examples of foolishness or unprovable ideas, but I can't.

I looked online for "High Frequency Generator" to find out what the heck it was.
I found this salon supply site selling these gadgets.

It says
"Provides a tingling sensation for hair or skin care salon treatments."

Is this likely the kind of thing used on the kid's arm?

re: #104 greenmiler

Heres a guy that should have paid more attention to electricity :)

Reminds me of the few of the guys i work with....
Electrical Engineers.

re: #111 Lynn B.

Are you saying untrue, or just not to be commented ?

re: #111 Lynn B.

Lynn- I saw your comment the other night, and I don't know if you saw my response to you, but if you didn't I just wanted to say thanks- it meant a to to me.

re: #117 Sharmuta

Er- meant a lot.

re: #79 JCM

Hey, check this out...
Hey, watch this...
Hold, my beer for a sec...

"I wonder what this thing does."

re: #98 Airborn Swine

Sigh...

Mo elbaradai goes on about this, and our Lizardoid Master decided to obsess about some teacher in Ohio supporting ID. Gotta fry the big fish first I guess.

You must have missed that topic here yesterday, because you were obsessing over the intelligent design posts.

leave it all out , ID, etc, etc, because if you let one in, the rest will be clamoring for equal time and you-know-who's religion and beliefs will demand entrance and the alleged prophet whose picture cannot be shown and who is allegedly offended by everything will be in there demanding his own way and kicking out all the others.

re: #120 Charles

LOL!

re: #110 moonstone

Please also see this about Phillip Johnson- author of the Wedge Strategy.

Johnson asserts that theistic evolution, progressive creationism, and other philosophies that try to integrate science and religion are misguided attempts by people of faith to accommodate academia by "accepting not just the particular conclusions that scientists have reached but also the naturalistic methodology that generated those conclusions." He criticizes those who accept the understanding of the material world that is presented by methodological naturalism yet still express faith that God exists. Their reasoning draws a dichotomy between faith and science that Johnson considers to be irrational.

So the ID movement thinks you people who are fine with both science and religion are irrational. Personally- I think it's called "projection".

re: #116 Airborn Swine

Totally untrue. And I think you know it.

re: #121 paint-right

leave it all out , ID, etc, etc, because if you let one in, the rest will be clamoring for equal time and you-know-who's religion and beliefs will demand entrance and the alleged prophet whose picture cannot be shown and who is allegedly offended by everything will be in there demanding his own way and kicking out all the others.

I mean except science, natch. If it's tracking down the truth , the truth will out. Meanwhile there's a gazillion fascinating and wondrous things to behold and study and contemplate already.

re: #77 mfarmer1

I'm glad you didn't, too.

I think that for anyone to make the assumption that this man represents all believers of ID, is a leap in clean logic. People everywhere try to force their beliefs on others. The greater urgency is this, as stated in #86 by Sharmuta:

This man harmed his students in mulitple ways. He physically abused them, and he harmed their education.

Take off the blinders and you will see that there are religious fanatics/freaks in every religion and in every political scenario.

I am not a strict creationist, IDer, evolutionist or any other one-size-fits-all protagonist, but I am, quite frankly, sick to death of people who treat those who don't believe as they do as the slime of the earth or eeeeeeeeeevil and expendable.

This man is clearly deranged, sick, twisted — and removing him was at the very least the right thing to do. We here at LGF pride ourseelves on being intelligent and capable of carrying on serious debate without resorting to debasing our opponent. I fear that we are veering away from this standard. I sincerely hope that we are not.

re: #117 Sharmuta

I did see it, Sharmuta. But by then the thread was (finally) dead.

Kind of you to say so. And thanks again. Ignorance is not bliss.

re: #120 Charles

Excellent.

Good to know that ID hasn't completely overrun the original reason I became a dedicated lurker her at LGF. I was more than a bit worried that our friends in the Little Satan had been put on a back burner, most relieved to find out that I was wrong.

Thanks again Great One for all that you do to keep us little people informed, even if the occasional personal pet peeve rubs me a bit wrong.

(Wow. a personal response from Charles...kinda like getting on the Jumbo Tron at Turner Field) ;) A bit intimidating and exciting at the same time.

re: #16 theparson

re: #9 Sharmuta

You would think a

self-professed

Christian would know better to harm even a hair on a child. Guess I must have missed the verse in the Bible that said he could abuse another person's child.

Just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one. I can stand in my garage but it doesn't make me a car.

Ah, the old He-did-something-sinful-so-he-must-not-be-a-Real-T rue-Christian™ bugaboo.  And a fallacious comparisson, to add some wild tang to the millieu (after all, he COULD be a Real True Christian™, you have no way to know for sure, but he couldn't be an automobile.  Or is there some special ID theorum that dictates that a person could be such a machine?).

It's always hard to fathom that while self-professed Christians like yourself and this gentlemen, would always profess that they and their fellow Christians were sinners, etc., if there was any stepping over the line and something bad resulted (like an actual sin navigated), the Christianhood of the offensive person would be questioned by their fellows (read that: throw under the bus), who would themselves seem to profess divine knowledge of who was and was not a Real True Christian™.

Glad to know that you're not a Christian, but only a self-professed Christian, though.

}:)     [Though clearly you shouldn't profess to be a logician!]

re: #98 Airborn Swine

Sigh...

Mo elbaradai goes on about this, and our Lizardoid Master decided to obsess about some teacher in Ohio supporting ID. Gotta fry the big fish first I guess.

You're a day late and a shekel short. The IAEA's toothless and neutered pink poodle's hissy fit was well covered.

re: #95 debutaunt

Media not found...

Try again. Works for me... maybe refresh your page?

re: #103 Shug

that is clever and funny on so many levels

im still lolling over it actually. i crack myself up.

re: #80 Kulhwch

What a monster.  How typical of the IDiot Fundii.  They're lucky they're only being sued.  If Mr. Secretly-Afraid-I'm-Gay had laid one hand on a child of mine, I'd've done my best to send him home to Jesus a tad early.

}:)     [What a maroon!]

I serioisly doubt it's typical of ID believers, Protestants, Christians, Yankees, Americans, humans, or primates.

Unfortunately, it looked to me like this blogpost associated people who believe the Universe has an "intelligent design" with violent mentally-unhinged criminal behavior, when in fact the article doesn't implicate most of them!

I share a principled commitment not to spend tax money on education that goes beyond rational thought, however I personally believe there is a meta-rational layer to the Universe extending to the First Cause of the Universe.

Nevertheless, I don't want public school teachers to preach their own preferred way to understand the non-rational foundations of the Universe. Public school teachers should teach only rational science, without passing off belief as fact.

After the risk of public-school brainwashing, individuals can choose for themselves whether rational thought and the scientific theory of evolution fit into an understanding of the design of the world as intelligent or non-intelligent.

hey are they hiding the comments on KOS now?

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

not showing up for me, are they hiding the dissention in their ranks?

re: #127 LeePro

You posted this comment to the wrong person. I am not blind to fundamentalists. and, fyi, I oppose them. Go back to the earliest thread on this subject and you'll see I posted as much.

re: #136 GOPninja

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

re: #138 Shug

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

then hit VIEW COMMENTS.

they are there

re: #135 stryker

I have no idea what you just said.

re: #121 paint-right

leave it all out , ID, etc, etc, because if you let one in, the rest will be clamoring for equal time and you-know-who's religion and beliefs will demand entrance and the alleged prophet whose picture cannot be shown and who is allegedly offended by everything will be in there demanding his own way and kicking out all the others.

I'm not sure I agree. I was exposed to a low level of understanding of all of the major religions in public school. Maybe those were different times, when no one was pushing an agenda upon the school board. I can't agree when schools have an entire month to explore and 'celebrate' Ramadan, but some exposure to all religions, imo, is less dangerous and more likely to promote a healthy skepticism to those with radical ideas.

re: #124 Lynn B.

Really.

You believe that some kid being abused by a no-name teacher is bfe Ohio would have gotten ANYONES attention beyond the local news ? It happens daily in dozens of schools, and nobody notices at all, and I think you know it.

Otoh, my original concern has been dealt with most promptly by the LM himself, so rant ended, back to lurking.

Later lizards, I'll look in much later tonight.

Glad he's being fired, but intelligent design is not mentioned in the article.

Sounds to me like he was teaching a literal version of the first verses of the book of Genesis.

re: #139 Shug

then hit VIEW COMMENTS.

they are there

Ah yes I thought I was doing that, but perhaps I wasnt. Thanks.

re: #143 Ringo the Gringo

The fox story says "creationism", fwiw.

re: #143 Ringo the Gringo

Glad he's being fired, but intelligent design is not mentioned in the article.

Sounds to me like he was teaching a literal version of the first verses of the book of Genesis.

Lesson #1

Hold this M-80 while I light the fuse.....

re: #143 Ringo the Gringo

Glad he's being fired, but intelligent design is not mentioned in the article.

Sounds to me like he was teaching a literal version of the first verses of the book of Genesis.

Teacher Accused of Branding Kid With Cross.

In its report, released Thursday, the company found Freshwater "did improperly use an electrostatic device on the student who filed the report" and had violated Ohio State standards by "teaching creationism and intelligent design."

re: #141 ec marm

I'm not sure I agree. I was exposed to a low level of understanding of all of the major religions in public school. Maybe those were different times, when no one was pushing an agenda upon the school board. I can't agree when schools have an entire month to explore and 'celebrate' Ramadan, but some exposure to all religions, imo, is less dangerous and more likely to promote a healthy skepticism to those with radical ideas.

I meant their explanation of the universe in science class. Comparitive religion is not the subject under dscussion exactly, it is rather the insertion of first causes into science classes, first causes that are articles of faith of specific religions. Letting ID in gives them the entree they may be looking for IMHO.

You know, I'm getting kind of tired of all the Christian bashing going on at this site... I've been an avid reader of LGF for a couple of years now and I've noticed a real uptick in sarcastic, ad hominem attacks on Christianity and Christians, mostly centered around the whole "Intelligent Design" debate...

This guy may be a Christian, but he's also an idiot. There are many Christians who have balanced views on the theory of Evolution. And yet more and more, all I see at LGF is a constant distortion of the real issues and concerns that most Christians have.

I personally could care less whether "Evolution" is true or not, because I believe in a God who can encompass that possibility. But I am tired of "Evolution" being used as a cover for the agenda of people who want to completely remove any mention of God from the public forum and marginalize anyone who professes to believe in him.

If anything, I feel sorry for this guy. He should definitely be disciplined, maybe even fired, but he probably needs help too.

yes...excellent!
God hates those queers, gotta burn them....teach has identity issues.

Just glad he didn't use wooden stakes, or silver bullets.

BTW...I'm thirsty, pint o'bitter here govnr'.

re: #12 Shug

I've read this several times and each time I read it , it makes less and less sense to me.

This man needs a psychiatric evaluation. Seriously

I shall splain.
The Bible says it's a sin. But if we have evolved, then it's a part of nature. If it's a part of nature, then God created it. If God created it, it can't be a sin.

So rather than admit the Bible is wrong, he decides that science is wrong.

re: #142 Airborn Swine

In case you hadn't noticed, a lot of things come to Charles' attention that nobody else notices. That's why a lot of us come here -- to find out about them.

Anyway, all's well that ends well. Glad your concern was dealt with to your satisfaction.

re: #145 Sharmuta

The fox story says "creationism", fwiw.

To me creationism means a literal understanding of the Biblical story of creation....which is not the same thing as ID.

Look, I am sick of all the attention for ID. Why aren't we studying the healing powers of crystals in science class.

This guy is a nut, and should be fired, plain and simple. It has nothing to do, however, with the merits of ID; I'm sure there are some nutcase Darwinists out there too, who while they might not burn a Darwin fish on a student's arm, gladly and perniciously spread propaganda and misinformation about origins science.

Creationism----> Intelligent Design ----> Holding hands over ears and shouting "la-la-la-la-la-la"

I used to work for a school board (in Ontario, Canada). It is almost impossible to fire a teacher. Principals have no real power, thanks to the teachers' union.

My first thought when I read this news item was, "He had to assault a student before they could fire him".

I'd be very interested in reading this particular teacher's file. My guess is that if he is, or has been, diagnosed with a mental illness, he won't be fired but otherwise, he's just lost his job and his pension. I'd also guess that the administration has wanted to get rid of him for a very long time.

Sometimes the fervor of a "true believer" is caused more by fear than love. The more fundamentalist the belief system (including a literal belief in the devil), the more likely it is that fear is used by the preacher to manipulate and control the believers.

If the devil lurks everywhere, plotting endlessly to steal your soul, then you are never safe. If everyone else is literally at risk of burning in hell for all eternity and you might be the only one able to save their eternal souls, that fear can be a stronger motivation than love. (I'm sure this is not true of all fundamentalist believers.)

Keeping Bibles on his desk, feeling compelled to warn students against the dangers of believing anything that conflicts with a literal interpretation of the Bible, despite being reprimanded by his boss, are all signs of fanaticism or religious mania. On a personal level, I hope he is not too religious to go to a psychiatrist and get some help. It's one thing to have strong religious convictions; it's another thing to be unable to restrain yourself while at a secular workplace because you believe you are on a religious mission.

I've known people who were slightly unhinged in their religious beliefs; I think they were mentally ill. Some of those people toted around "Christian" books about a so-called Jewish conspiracy to control the world and/or a Catholic conspiracy to control the world.

Are they real Christians? Do they truly love God? I will leave that up to God; I can only judge someone's actions. I will just say that those types of people do not represent me or the fullness of my beliefs as a Christian. And, yes, that is a valid statement.

I'm guessing that the student let the teacher burn the cross into his arm but that his parents freaked out when they saw it (I would, too).

The teacher was wrong to do what he did. If he gets fired, it will be because he deserves it. However, I feel sorry for him on a personal level. I think he is unwell.

re: #149 MrSpock

If anyone is bashing Christians, it's the people at the discovery institute like phillip johnson who seems to think you're irrational far being fine with both God and evolution.

I am not excusing Freshwater who sounds like a lunatic.

but from examining that photo hf the child's arm it appears to have taken dozens of contact points to trace out that cross shape.

so I wonder what role the student play in this?
Unless Freshwater is 6 foot 6 and 350 lbs and held the student down, wouldn't one assume the student went along with this.

Did he get home and his mother Freaked out and he then blamed Freshwter?

again, the teacher ought to know better so ultimately he is the guilty party here.
Was brainwashing involved or is this kid a little Freshwater in training?

I think the whole story has yet to be told

Teachers have a contractual responsibility to teach the designated curriculum. Teachers have a moral and ethical responsibility to not hurt their students. The guy needs to go.

On the other hand, do not assume that this stuff does not go on everyday, across the country, in a myriad of ways. Unions protect bad an abusive teachers every single day. Creationists, or whatever this guy's thing is, do not corner the market on classroom abuses.

As Paul mentioned above, I taught within that SE Wisconsin Teacher's Union for many years. One big reason I got out is because there are a lot of people pushing their personal agendas , protected by the activists in the Teachers Unions. Most of them are communists. So you will never hear of THEIR abuses.

re: #136 GOPninja

hey are they hiding the comments on KOS now?

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

not showing up for me, are they hiding the dissention in their ranks?

This happens to me on occasion. There is a workaround.

Click on the Author's name at the top of the rant. This will take you to the authors blog. From there, click on the Discuss link at the bottom of the blog-rant.

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm glad he was fired. He used his position to bully and abuse kids. Any teacher that does this should be shown the door and never allowed to teach again.

The whole school system would be gone.

re: #154 Gordon Marock

Ha! Remember that pathetically silly quote in "Expelled"? Loosely, "On the backs of crystals" (!). Nice science there.

re: #162 DoubleU

The whole school system would be gone.

Amen.

Except goddess, and people like her. BTW - Goddess is a devout Christian.

re: #149 MrSpock

You think there is Christian bashing going on here? I believe you are being a tad sensitive.

This is an anti-idiotarian site. Idiocy in any form is scorned.

I guess this guy thinks "intelligent design" means that it's a sign of intelligence to make a design in someone's arm.

OT

I have good news for those in the know:
Michael Sabah has resigned as Patriarch (Bishop) of Palestine.
The Pope accepted his resignation immediately. He has already appointed a succesor.

Good riddance, my name-sake; hope you do things with more justice in the future.

re: #157 Josephine

Keeping Bibles on his desk, [snip} are all signs of fanaticism or religious mania.

I respectfully disagree.

re: #147 Charles

I was reading the CNN article, which didn't say ID.

Glad he was fired ether way.

re: #153 Ringo the Gringo

To me creationism means a literal understanding of the Biblical story of creation....which is not the same thing as ID.

The article mentions both, which is unlikely, because you are correct. Intelligent design is a preemption of evolution. Creationism is the religious mythology of the origin of the world, existent in all religions.

I've a good friend. A Christian who teaches at the college level.

At the beginning of the of the school year with a freshman class he writes 3 questions on the board.

What is your source?
What is your purpose?
What is your destiny?

He then says, "unless you answer the these 3 question, your next 4 years here will be wasted."

If he student wants to follow up, he takes 'em out for coffee.

re: #166 grybstein

I guess this guy thinks "intelligent design" means that it's a sign of intelligence to make a design in someone's arm.

no doubt if he'd branded him with an Ohio state logo all would have been forgiven

More from phillip johnson:

Johnson calls his movement "The Wedge." The objective, he said, is to convince people that Darwinism is inherently atheistic, thus shifting the debate from creationism vs. evolution to the existence of God vs. the non-existence of God. From there people are introduced to "the truth" of the Bible and then "the question of sin" and finally "introduced to Jesus."

This is not about science- this is about a group of people trying to push their religion on children.

re: #172 Shug

no doubt if he'd branded him with an Ohio state logo all would have been forgiven

Or the Obama Seal

re: #174 pat
or Che'

re: #151 Hard Right

There are many things that are part of nature that are neither helpful or healthful. Not making a case for or against homosexuality with this statement. I'm just saying that what comes naturally is not always beneficial.

re: #160 mama winger

I taught within that SE Wisconsin Teacher's Union for many years. One big reason I got out is because there are a lot of people pushing their personal agendas , protected by the activists in the Teachers Unions. Most of them are communists. So you will never hear of THEIR abuses.

Thank you. The article itself left much room for conjecture, as Shug noted above in comment #6. It is good to have background info added.

re: #123 Sharmuta

Good links, thanks.

So basically I was mistaken about the entire concept of Intelligent Design. I had no idea it was so politicized. I must admit, it makes me feel a lot better about those of you who go ballistic (including Charles) whenever ID is mentioned! I should never have doubted the lizard master.

I guess there isn't a label for us "people who are fine with both science and religion." I'll just be thankful that no one is forcing us to choose between them.

re: #174 pat

Or the Obama Seal

Maybe Obama got the idea of the seal from DKOS..

re: #172 Shug

Could you imagine an algebra teacher branding the quadratic formula into a student's arm? From the fox article:

Freshwater's friend Dave Daubenmire defended him.

"With the exception of the cross-burning episode. ... I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district,"

I highly doubt the algebra teacher would get this type of support.

re: #177 Ma Sands

Thank you. The article itself left much room for conjecture, as Shug noted above in comment #6. It is good to have background info added.

I literally could not stand the brainwashing anymore, Ma. What I'd like to see here is a broadening of perspective beyond ID, to include all the other types of hogwash radical agendas that are being pushed on our children.

re: #159 Shug

I am not excusing Freshwater who sounds like a lunatic.

but from examining that photo hf the child's arm it appears to have taken dozens of contact points to trace out that cross shape.

so I wonder what role the student play in this?
Unless Freshwater is 6 foot 6 and 350 lbs and held the student down, wouldn't one assume the student went along with this.

Did he get home and his mother Freaked out and he then blamed Freshwter?

again, the teacher ought to know better so ultimately he is the guilty party here.
Was brainwashing involved or is this kid a little Freshwater in training?

I think the whole story has yet to be told

Yes, he may have gone along with it. The question is whether or not the student knew what the outcome would be.
I'm sure it will be argued the teacher should have known better.

Apologies in advance for the repost.
Ok, here it goes. I believe in an intelligent designer. I also believe the theory of evolution is
correct. I definitely believe in the fossil records. I do not see how you can see all of the
unique species on the Australian continent and not believe in evolution. But what an intelligent designer explains for me is how the ball came into being and how it got rolling.
And as I have stated before, it explains the evolutionary leaps that appear in some of the fossil records.
I do not think that the idea of an intelligent designer should be taught in schools - because it
can never be scientifically proved or disproved. Evolution , conversely, can be proved , disproved or modified scientifically over time when more evidence is discovered. I understand
that the belief in an intelligent designer is much different than the intelligent design movement.
That difference is what causes so many misunderstandings when this topic is discussed.
Charles’s criticism of the ID movement itself is justified. But it should not be construed as an
attack on those of us who believe in an intelligent designer.

re: #180 Sharmuta

Could you imagine an algebra teacher branding the quadratic formula into a student's arm?

I wish my teacher had done that!

re: #179 Thanos

Maybe Obama got the idea of the seal from DKOS..

Wonder how many sport the tattoo of that? or the Obama seal. Mark Of The Beast!

re: #149 MrSpock

You know, I'm getting kind of tired of all the accusations of Christian bashing going on at this site... I've been an avid reader of LGF for several years now and the number of posts that could honestly be characterized that way is miniscule and even those either stop short of real abuse or end up getting the commenter banned. And most of them now get dinged down or ignored.

re: #149 MrSpock

As a Christian, and a Lizard, I would like you to show me one statement of Charles that constitutes "Christian" bashing. Are there a few comments by lizards that are over the line, yes. But they are pretty generally called on it.

As for me, my beliefs and faith are not effected the least by anything posted here. Grow a thicker skin, and stand your ground. That is far better testimony than whining.

re: #126 wolfie

re: #126 wolfie

I'm glad you didn't, too.

Yeah, you're probably right. Had he attempted such a thing, the lunatic fundie would have found the entire contents of "On the Origin of Species" across his torso.

re: #178 moonstone

For what it's worth- I believe in God, consider myself a Christian and have no doubts about evolution. But to people at the discovery institute- I'm the one who is irrational.

Thanks for taking the time to read my links. :)

Global Warming is a scam.... pass it on...

(meanwhile, leftists ignore China's toxic industrial waste)
/It isn't the CO2, stupid.

re: #183 NonNativeTexan

Well said, NNT. You probably speak for a lot of us.

re: #170 pat

The article mentions both, which is unlikely, because you are correct. Intelligent design is a preemption of evolution. Creationism is the religious mythology of the origin of the world, existent in all religions.

The only book I have read by a proponent of ID was The Hidden Face of God by Gerald Schrodder and that book accepts evolution.

I agree with most of the people here, that ID does not belong in a science class, but I do think that it is a worthy subject for a philosophy class.

re: #181 mama winger

I literally could not stand the brainwashing anymore, Ma. What I'd like to see here is a broadening of perspective beyond ID, to include all the other types of hogwash radical agendas that are being pushed on our children.

The problem is that doesn't fit the agenda of the Discovery Institute, they would rather go after science as the root of all evil rather than the marxist moral relativism being taught in teaching schools. The humorous thing about this is that the real radicals in teaching hate scientists and science as well and have for decades.

re: #181 mama winger

For instance - there was a case here locally a few years ago where one junior high teacher , teaching American History, wanted to delete all references to the Presidents, because they were all white landowners and therefore oppressors, I guess. He wanted to teach American History from the view point of the 'oppressed'.

I think this kind of crapola is every bit as dangerous as ID.

re: #180 Sharmuta,

You might be surprised. It depends on the area. Remember the evidence Zombie has shown of the Berkeley area high-schools teaching Marxism and anti-Americanism, including letting the kids out of class to attend Code Pink propaganda rallies? Same difference here, really. In both cases the teacher (s) overstep their bounds to the detriment of the student.

re: #168 mama winger

I respectfully disagree.

That isn't what was said MW. There was much more to it.

Peru is facing record cold temperatures.

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

re: #193 Thanos

The problem is that doesn't fit the agenda of the Discovery Institute, they would rather go after science as the root of all evil rather than the marxist moral relativism being taught in teaching schools. The humorous thing about this is that the real radicals in teaching hate scientists and science as well and have for decades.

I could give two hoots what the Discovery Institute addresses. I am saying I would like to see US address it.

re: #196 Hard Right

That isn't what was said MW. There was much more to it.

But is was included as one sign of mania. I disagree. That's all.

re: #194 mama winger

That whole deconstructionist view is one of the greatest evils in education today.

re: #181 mama winger

All the way through the lower grades, and high school years of my kids, I was present, often.....gave me much opportunity to have an effect on the teachers, as well as mine own kids.....

I would've preferred to home school, but wasn't able to......I figure what i did do, was quite effective.....wish I could put my kids up, as exhibit 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7..... :)

Came across this site the other day, a sort of a DIY-guide to spread Islam in schools:

[Link: www.dawanet.com...]

Take a look at the methodical way they go about it...

The bottom line

We should use every opportunity to sensitize non-Muslim peers and school staff to Islam and to establish an environment in which everywhere a non-Muslim turns, he notices Islam portrayed in a positive way, is influenced by it and eventually accepts Islam with Allah's guidance, Insha Allah (if God wills).

re: #192 Ringo the Gringo

The only book I have read by a proponent of ID was The Hidden Face of God by Gerald Schrodder and that book accepts evolution.

I agree with most of the people here, that ID does not belong in a science class, but I do think that it is a worthy subject for a philosophy class.

I agree entirely, and in fact took philosophy classes that dealt with the subject long before ID was id'ed.

re: #200 Thanos

That whole deconstructionist view is one of the greatest evils in education today.

Absolutely. Which is one reason I got out, and now work with doggies. :)

re: #199 mama winger

But is was included as one sign of mania. I disagree. That's all.

Taken as a whole I would agree with what they said. By itself, I would not. I think that was the point-the totality of the teacher's actions/behavior.

re: #204 mama winger

Here's some pics of Kasie in case you missed them the other night, she's grown a bit :)
[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

re: #201 Ma Sands

All the way through the lower grades, and high school years of my kids, I was present, often.....gave me much opportunity to have an effect on the teachers, as well as mine own kids.....

I would've preferred to home school, but wasn't able to......I figure what i did do, was quite effective.....wish I could put my kids up, as exhibit 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7..... :)

I didn't have what it takes to homeschool either Ma. I think I would have gone nuts. Too much of a perfectionist - I would have lost patience with my own.

But I did send them to private schools, which for us was a great choice. I also talked talked talked with them every night about what they had learned, and often took a Devil's advocate position to see if they could logically defend their thoughts. It was a lot of work. Kids are a lot of work either way, eh ?

re: #195 Iron Fist

And I don't disagree, however I'm inclined to agree with Thanos' #193. Science teaches the very things that could help students see through this crap- like observation and rational thinking. No wonder it's under attack.

re: #149 MrSpock

You know, I'm getting kind of tired of all the Christian bashing going on at this site... I've been an avid reader of LGF for a couple of years now and I've noticed a real uptick in sarcastic, ad hominem attacks on Christianity and Christians, mostly centered around the whole "Intelligent Design" debate...

This guy may be a Christian, but he's also an idiot. There are many Christians who have balanced views on the theory of Evolution. And yet more and more, all I see at LGF is a constant distortion of the real issues and concerns that most Christians have.

I personally could care less whether "Evolution" is true or not, because I believe in a God who can encompass that possibility. But I am tired of "Evolution" being used as a cover for the agenda of people who want to completely remove any mention of God from the public forum and marginalize anyone who professes to believe in him.

If anything, I feel sorry for this guy. He should definitely be disciplined, maybe even fired, but he probably needs help too.

He's no different than all the crazies we see on MEMRI, just a different religion, that's all. You'd be all over this guy if he wasn't, well, you know.

re: #159 Shug

That's a good point. I was actually starting the wonder the same thing. We'll see...

re: #206 Thanos

Here's some pics of Kasie in case you missed them the other night, she's grown a bit :)
[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

I bet she's a high maintanance doggy! Lots of energy.

re: #206 Thanos

Here's some pics of Kasie in case you missed them the other night, she's grown a bit :)
[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

OMG - look at that face! Who could not love that face!

I love Aussies. Does she wear you out?

re: #160 mama winger

Exactly.
The NEA has a political agenda. And I don't mean wanting to raise salaries or suck more money down the education drain. I'm talking about the promotion of leftist and "enlightened" views through the public schools.
All you have to do is go to their website and see what their state and national conventions are all about. We're not talking workshops on how to improve math skills!

re: #208 Sharmuta

And I don't disagree, however I'm inclined to agree with Thanos' #193. Science teaches the very things that could help students see through this crap- like observation and rational thinking. No wonder it's under attack.

Every kid should take a class in Logic during High School, or at least by the time they are in college.

re: #211 Hard Right

Well she does this thing where she occasionally gets frenetic and runs sideways across the walls, but otherwise she's pretty placid as Aussie's go.

re: #185 pat

Wonder how many sport the tattoo of that? or the Obama seal. Mark Of The Beast!

It does look like a phoenix.

re: #165 WhiteRasta

re: #165 WhiteRasta

You think there is Christian bashing going on here? I believe you are being a tad sensitive.

This is an anti-idiotarian site. Idiocy in any form is scorned.

Exactly my point. One of the reasons why I continually come to LGF is that historically it has been a bedrock of logical debate. But over the last year, this has changed and I am seeing constant portrayals of anyone who believes in ID (or any variation thereof) as a fanatical, bible thumping nut-cake, on par with the Islamo-faciscts in terms of reasoning ability. Usually I just sigh and pass on by, but the constant attitude is tiresome.

No culture is impervious to the corruption of its values, not even this one. If this keeps up, LGF is going to alienate a lot of people who share a common cause...

Just my .02 cents...

re: #98 Airborn Swine

Discussed thousands of times here.... we already know the issues, the problems, the objections, the fantasies... pretty much everything but the outcome.

To me, Charles' interest in the ID controversy (and the social milieu in which it is embedded) is both interesting and sheds light on a great many things.

re: #86 Sharmuta

Total absolute agreement.

}:)     <thumbs up>

re: #213 wolfie

Exactly.
The NEA has a political agenda. And I don't mean wanting to raise salaries or suck more money down the education drain. I'm talking about the promotion of leftist and "enlightened" views through the public schools.
All you have to do is go to their website and see what their state and national conventions are all about. We're not talking workshops on how to improve math skills!

That's why I think this limited focus on ID should be broadened IMO. There is some really batshit crazy stuff taught to kids these days that has nothing to do with anything but a leftist agenda. They are literally holding our kids captive for 7 hours a day and indoctrinating them into radical liberalism.

re: #207 mama winger

It was a lot of work. Kids are a lot of work

Yup.....takes all ya got, and more.... :)

bbl

re: #217 MrSpock

Please- understand the difference between ID the political movement, and ID in the sense of personal belief in God and science. The side of the political movement thinks the other side is irrational.

re: #215 Thanos

Well she does this thing where she occasionally gets frenetic and runs sideways across the walls, but otherwise she's pretty placid as Aussie's go.

Is she a swimmer? Swimming is a great energy-depleting exercise for dogs.

re: #224 mama winger

Is she a swimmer? Swimming is a great energy-depleting exercise for dogs.

I haven't taken her swimming yet, she's only six months old, but it's a great idea and I'll try it out.

re: #190 FrogMarch

It's nice to see someone giving a thorough Fisking to The Goracle.

CO2 is not a pollutant.

Good evening, Lizards.

My thoughts:

1. This teacher is being fired for being insubordinate. He didn't do (or stop doing) as he was told. This is the simpliest way to fire a bad teacher because it can be proved beyond "you did this"/"no I didn't." No teachers' union can stop that AS LONG AS the administrator has done his or her job. I argue that there is one of the problems: administrators knowing what's going on.

2. A teacher is to teacher the curriculum approved by the District. He or she CANNOT hold students accountable for anything else.

3. The Bible is a work of literature foundational to Western Civilization. Some also believe it to be the Holy Word of God. There is nothing wrong with having the Bible in a class room; there is everything wrong with telling students that if they don't believe it to be holy, they're damned.

re: #217 MrSpock

re: #165 WhiteRasta

Exactly my point. One of the reasons why I continually come to LGF is that historically it has been a bedrock of logical debate. But over the last year, this has changed and I am seeing constant portrayals of anyone who believes in ID (or any variation thereof) as a fanatical, bible thumping nut-cake, on par with the Islamo-faciscts in terms of reasoning ability. Usually I just sigh and pass on by, but the constant attitude is tiresome.

No culture is impervious to the corruption of its values, not even this one. If this keeps up, LGF is going to alienate a lot of people who share a common cause...

Just my .02 cents...

I think it has more to do with the arm-twisting insistence of some to teach it in the schools. Your or my personal belief in ID, has no impact on society at large.

re: #225 Thanos

I haven't taken her swimming yet, she's only six months old, but it's a great idea and I'll try it out.

It's best to do it when they are young, so that they view it as a natural thing and don't get phobic about the water and all. 6 months would be great!

re: #227 goddessoftheclassroom

Hi goddess. :)

100% agreement.

What the hell is Al Gore going to do about his mansion?

re: #98 Airborn Swine

Sigh...

Mo elbaradai goes on about this, and our Lizardoid Master decided to obsess about some teacher in Ohio supporting ID. Gotta fry the big fish first I guess.

Charles:

Are you obsessed?  Me and the guys can pool up and get you some meds if you are.  You just say the word, we're on it.  We certainly don't want you obsessed.  Well, not much, anyway.

}:)     [What else is a good lizard army for?]

re: #229 mama winger

It's best to do it when they are young, so that they view it as a natural thing and don't get phobic about the water and all. 6 months would be great!

Well she's a bit phobic when we give her a bath, on the other hand she loves to bite the streams of water from the garden hose as we water the garden, it's hilarious watching her try to catch the water.

re: #186 Lynn B.

You know, I'm getting kind of tired of all the accusations of Christian bashing going on at this site... I've been an avid reader of LGF for several years now and the number of posts that could honestly be characterized that way is miniscule and even those either stop short of real abuse or end up getting the commenter banned. And most of them now get dinged down or ignored.

well, I disagree... but your sarcasm proves my point... I was trying to make (IMO) a rational appeal to try and bring more civility back into this community, and you lash out at me in an emotional response... thanks...

re: #213 wolfie

Exactly.
The NEA has a political agenda. And I don't mean wanting to raise salaries or suck more money down the education drain. I'm talking about the promotion of leftist and "enlightened" views through the public schools.
All you have to do is go to their website and see what their state and national conventions are all about. We're not talking workshops on how to improve math skills!

You're absolutely correct. NCTE (National Council of Teachers of English) does, too. I have to belong to the NEA because I belong to my local association (collective bargaining and many other benefits), but I do not make any political contributions (and are dues do NOT go to such causes). I will not join NCTE because of their blatant political agenda.

re: #215 Thanos

Well she does this thing where she occasionally gets frenetic and runs sideways across the walls, but otherwise she's pretty placid as Aussie's go.

That's perfectly normal. :o

My mom's friend had one, maybe a year old when we babysat her. Just trying to walk down the hallway was a chore. She kept trying to herd us into different rooms!

re: #227 goddessoftheclassroom

there is everything wrong with telling students that if they don't believe it to be holy, they're damned.

Well, the worst thing about that, is that that approach doesn't work --except perhaps for one in a million who'd hear it, and then that would only be the straw that broke the camel's back anyway..... :)

re: #234 MrSpock

Sorry- Lynn offered up a good comment there- that was hardly lashing out.

re: #234 MrSpock

No sarcasm intended, Spock. And I can assure you there was no emotion involved, just the facts as I see them. But if that's how you read it, sorry.

re: #225 Thanos

I haven't taken her swimming yet, she's only six months old, but it's a great idea and I'll try it out.

Labs should be in water at 2 months. BTW, water exercise is much healthier for Labs than field work. They damage joints very easily. Built for water.

re: #151 Hard Right

I shall splain.
The Bible says it's a sin. But if we have evolved, then it's a part of nature. If it's a part of nature, then God created it. If God created it, it can't be a sin.

So rather than admit the Bible is wrong, he decides that science is wrong.

It doesn't even have to be that black and white.

I choose to accept certain things in the Bible as being religiously true. However, I also have a good understanding of human nature and I cannot believe that the accounts in the Bible were 1) dictated by God and 2) necessarily 100 percent accurate at the start, let alone perfect and unchanged throughout history.

I also try to separate the spiritual from the social. So, for example, I think that the admonition against homosexuality reflected the social mores of the time, not God's divine edict. (I don't know how to do the accent over the e in mores; sorry.)

So that man doesn't have to decide the Bible is wrong but he does have to decide that it is not all literally 100 percent a divine command from God.

re: #236 Hard Right

That's perfectly normal. :o

My mom's friend had one, maybe a year old when we babysat her. Just trying to walk down the hallway was a chore. She kept trying to herd us into different rooms!

Yeah, she does that as well. We broke her of doing it on the stairs, but otherwise we like to play along.

Saving Darwin: How to Be a Christian and Believe in Evolution

So far- I'm enjoying this book quite a bit.

re: #234 MrSpock

well, I disagree... but your sarcasm proves my point... I was trying to make (IMO) a rational appeal to try and bring more civility back into this community, and you lash out at me in an emotional response... thanks...

Spock, your Human side is showing you damned half breed.

/bones

re: #137 Sharmuta

You posted this comment to the wrong person. I am not blind to fundamentalists. and, fyi, I oppose them. Go back to the earliest thread on this subject and you'll see I posted as much.

I didn't post my comment "to" anyone. Neither am I a fundamentalist, and, like you, I strongly oppose them. The quote I used (clearly attributed to your #86) was in support of that — your — statement!

What alarms me is the knee-jerk mentality attached to many who hold sincere religious beliefs.

I am not defending ID.
I am not defending Creationism.
Nor am I defending religious faith in general, or the lack thereof.
And I am most certainly not defending anyone's assertion that religious beliefs should be taught, per se, in our public school system!

re: #237 Ma Sands

Well, the worst thing about that, is that that approach doesn't work --except perhaps for one in a million who'd hear it, and then that would only be the straw that broke the camel's back anyway..... :)

I agree, but even if it did work, it would be wrong in a class room.

re: #187 JCM

As a Christian, and a Lizard, I would like you to show me one statement of Charles that constitutes "Christian" bashing. Are there a few comments by lizards that are over the line, yes. But they are pretty generally called on it.

As for me, my beliefs and faith are not effected the least by anything posted here. Grow a thicker skin, and stand your ground. That is far better testimony than whining.

I'm sorry, please show me where I accused "Charles" of anything...

re: #225 Thanos

I haven't taken her swimming yet, she's only six months old, but it's a great idea and I'll try it out.

Oh , an Aussie. for some reason i thought uou had a Lab pup. Aussies have unlimited field energy. Love games. Speaking of which, I judge a dog show on the 28th. Likely to be some Aussies.

re: #232 Moi

re: Me 98

His house his rules of course, was just hoping the tube was tuned to the game...

At last, we've got them talking to themselves!

}:)     [Echo!  Echo cho cho ... Cool!]

re: #234 MrSpock

MrSpock,

Your argument is not logical.

How is Lynn's response insulting or "lashing out" at you?

re: #234 MrSpock

well, I disagree... but your sarcasm proves my point... I was trying to make (IMO) a rational appeal to try and bring more civility back into this community, and you lash out at me in an emotional response... thanks...

Sometimes people take offense at a strongly worded opinion. We conservatives should have built up thicker skins by now. I like controversial comments because they challenge me to find fault with the argument. Some take that too personally.

This is a great site. And civil for the most part. Go slumming over at a liberal site for contrast, and post a conservative comment, and watch the hell-fire and damnation reign down on you. I know, I have.

re: #233 Thanos

Take her to a place with a gradual sloping beach if you can, Then just go out in the water with her and start swimming. Get her to follow you along the shoreline. Make it hap hap happy! :)

re: #248 pat

You judge Dog Shows! How delightful! do you have a specialty?

re: #245 LeePro

OK- my apologies for misunderstanding your point, Lee.

re: #246 goddessoftheclassroom

Now, perhaps.....but there will come a time.....

And, there is something that's been occurring, unbidden, to me lately: "Ye have not yet resisted unto blood...."

To those taking issue with Charles interest in ID.

Homework assignment.

Read the: THE WEDGE STRATEGY

Phase I.

* Scientific Research, Writing & Publicity

Phase II.

* Publicity & Opinion-making

Phase III.

* Cultural Confrontation & Renewal

The research and find the scriptural basis for this strategy.

My first issue is from a Christian perspective, it's fighting in the wrong realm.

My second issue is the law of unintended consequences. If we allow a religious based instruction into schools, what will you say when a religion you object too asks for the same access.

re: #241 Josephine

It doesn't even have to be that black and white.

I choose to accept certain things in the Bible as being religiously true. However, I also have a good understanding of human nature and I cannot believe that the accounts in the Bible were 1) dictated by God and 2) necessarily 100 percent accurate at the start, let alone perfect and unchanged throughout history.

I also try to separate the spiritual from the social. So, for example, I think that the admonition against homosexuality reflected the social mores of the time, not God's divine edict. (I don't know how to do the accent over the e in mores; sorry.)

So that man doesn't have to decide the Bible is wrong but he does have to decide that it is not all literally 100 percent a divine command from God.

It seems you and I are of the same mind.

My explanation was for that teacher and those just like him. I've come accross a few of them in my life and they make it that black and white.

re: #226 WhiteRasta

It's nice to see someone giving a thorough Fisking to The Goracle.

CO2 is not a pollutant.

AlGore should win the prize for biggest crock of BS.

re: #242 Thanos

Yeah, she does that as well. We broke her of doing it on the stairs, but otherwise we like to play along.

You wear sheep costumes? :P

re: #258 FrogMarch

AlGore should win the prize for biggest crock of BS.

He did.....