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More Details on Ohio Creationist Science Teacher

Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:14:14 am PST

Here’s an article at the Mount Vernon News with more details on the “intelligent design” science teacher in trouble for burning a cross into a student’s arm: Report reveals religion was taught.

The key findings of the report are quoted below.

* Mr. Freshwater did burn a cross onto the complaining family’s child’s arm using an electrostatic device not designed for that purpose. While there did not appear to be any intent by Mr. Freshwater to cause injury to any student, he was not using the device for its intended purpose. Contrary to Mr. Freshwater’s statement he simply made an “X” not a “cross,” all of the students described the marking as a “cross” and the pictures provided depict a “cross.”

* The Ten Commandments together with other posters of a religious nature were posted in Mr. Freshwater’s classroom. Most were removed after Mr. White’s letter of April 14, 2008, but at least one poster remained which Mr. Freshwater was again instructed to remove on April 16, 2008, but did not do so.

* Several Bibles were kept in Mr. Freshwater’s classroom including his personal Bible on his desk and one he checked out of the library placed on the lab table near the desk. Other Bibles that had been maintained in the room were removed by the time the investigators viewed Mr. Freshwater’s room.

* Mr. Freshwater engaged in teaching of a religious nature, teaching creationism and related theories and calling evolution into question. He had other materials in his classroom that could be used for that purpose.

* Mr. Freshwater engaged in prayer during FCA meetings in violation of the district’s legal obligations for monitoring such organizations.

* Mr. Freshwater participated and possibly led a prayer during an FCA meeting that concerned a guest speaker’s health. There is no conclusion as to whether such prayer was a “healing” prayer.

* There is no evidence Mr. Freshwater violated the district’s permission slip policy.

* There is no evidence Mr. Freshwater made statements about FCA members “being the saved ones” nor was there any corroboration to the allegation Mr. Freshwater gave FCA members Bibles for them to distribute. He did have two boxes of Bibles in the back of his room.

* Mr. Freshwater gave an extra credit assignment for students to view the movie “Expelled” which does involve intelligent design.

788 comments

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1 astronmr20  6/22/08 11:16:43 am reply quote 0

The electronic device was not designed for that purpose?

2 itellu3times  6/22/08 11:17:22 am reply quote 5

re: #1 astronmr20

The electronic device was not designed for that purpose?

It's still evolving.

3 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:17:25 am reply quote 2

Isn't one of the commandments, "Thou shall not brand children like cattle"

4 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:17:40 am reply quote 1

If Mr. Freshwater wanted to put intelligent designs on his students he should have used a tattoo needle.

5 astronmr20  6/22/08 11:17:56 am reply quote 10

As a believer, it's crap like this that gives the rest a bad name.

6 itellu3times  6/22/08 11:18:46 am reply quote 1

He was just illustrating what intelligent design looks like, you think he wanted to sit there until the kid evolved a cross on his arm?

7 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:19:05 am reply quote -2

WWJFD?

8 SasquatchOnSteroids  6/22/08 11:19:06 am reply quote 1

JCM said it best for me yesterday. If he did this to my kid, he'd better hope the cops show up before I get there.

9 zombie  6/22/08 11:20:04 am reply quote 20

This teacher's actions clearly violate the Establishment Clause.

This is a PUBLIC school. Kids are required to go there. It's been ruled by the Supreme Court over and over that religious evangelism is not permitted in such a setting, particularly by an authority figure (i.e. a teacher) with power over the students' lives.

He's got to be fired. No question.

10 yma o hyd  6/22/08 11:21:22 am reply quote 2

re: #5 astronmr20

As a believer, it's crap like this that gives the rest a bad name.

Yes - its sickening to think that someone who calls himself a Christian is prepared to inflict bodily harm on children which were entrusted to him.

11 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:21:47 am reply quote 0

"Mr. Freshwater did burn a cross onto the complaining family’s child’s arm using an electrostatic device not designed for that purpose."

This idiot is a closet Islamist. He is allowing the media and the left to draw a moral eqivalence between Islamists and Christianity.

Are these people born this stupid or do they have to work at it?

12 astronmr20  6/22/08 11:21:57 am reply quote 5

So many bibles around, but Freshwater doesn't seem to have read any of them past the book of Genisis.

There are more books in the bible, Mr. Freshwater. Then there's that whole Jesus thing:

0:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and [his] disciples rebuked those that brought [them].

10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

10:16 And he took them up in his arms, put [his] hands upon them, and blessed them.


/I must have missed the part about Christ branding kids.

13 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:22:07 am reply quote 2

re: #9 zombie

This teacher's actions clearly violate the Establishment Clause.

This is a PUBLIC school. Kids are required to go there. It's been ruled by the Supreme Court over and over that religious evangelism is not permitted in such a setting, particularly by an authority figure (i.e. a teacher) with power over the students' lives.

He's got to be fired. No question.

He also violated the, "Don't brand shit on the kids" clause.

14 astronmr20  6/22/08 11:23:13 am reply quote 0

This asshat needs to be locked up.

15 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:23:25 am reply quote 0

re: #12 astronmr20

So many bibles around, but Freshwater doesn't seem to have read any of them past the book of Genisis.

There are more books in the bible, Mr. Freshwater. Then there's that whole Jesus thing:

0:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and [his] disciples rebuked those that brought [them].

10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

10:16 And he took them up in his arms, put [his] hands upon them, and blessed them.


/I must have missed the part about Christ branding kids.

He was putting the "suffer" into "suffer the little children to come unto me."

16 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:23:49 am reply quote 13
* The Ten Commandments together with other posters of a religious nature were posted in Mr. Freshwater’s classroom. Most were removed after Mr. White’s letter of April 14, 2008, but at least one poster remained which Mr. Freshwater was again instructed to remove on April 16, 2008, but did not do so.

Despite what some posters on other threads believe- this teacher did not in fact comply with the dictates of the school board.

* Mr. Freshwater engaged in teaching of a religious nature, teaching creationism and related theories and calling evolution into question. He had other materials in his classroom that could be used for that purpose.

Despite what some posters on other threads believe- this teacher was not a competent science teacher in that he flouted the scientific method, and harmed his students ability to fully understand and appreciate science.

17 mikeysdca  6/22/08 11:24:24 am reply quote 0

re: #13 ccrnyc

This guy is whacko.

18 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:24:45 am reply quote -32

At least he didn't touch him inappropriately like the Catholic Priests do.

19 zombie  6/22/08 11:24:58 am reply quote 33
* Mr. Freshwater gave an extra credit assignment for students to view the movie “Expelled” which does involve intelligent design.

The poor children of America.

On one hand you have crypto-Marxist teachers showing them "An Inconvenient Truth," which is a pack of lies, and then they go into the next class and the teacher shows them "Expelled," which is an entirely different pack of lies.

I say: NO INDOCTRINATION IN THE CLASSROOM, whatever the teacher's political or religious orientation may be.

Our kids don't stand a chance in this environment.

20 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:25:43 am reply quote 2

re: #12 astronmr20

I think he also missed this:

"It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones."
--Luke 17:2

I wonder how long the idiot can hold his breath...

21 2by2  6/22/08 11:25:49 am reply quote 0

Teaching religion involves burning crosses into student's skin?
say it ain't true, world's going nuts

22 mikeysdca  6/22/08 11:26:13 am reply quote 2

re: #18 ccrnyc

Burning is not inappropriate touching?

23 yma o hyd  6/22/08 11:26:13 am reply quote 7

re: #9 zombie

This teacher's actions clearly violate the Establishment Clause.

This is a PUBLIC school. Kids are required to go there. It's been ruled by the Supreme Court over and over that religious evangelism is not permitted in such a setting, particularly by an authority figure (i.e. a teacher) with power over the students' lives.

He's got to be fired. No question.

Absolutely.

Shouldn't it be obvious that, as soon as any sort of religious proselytising is allowed in public schools, it will be impossible to restrict this to Christian beliefs only.

I wonder if any of the people who want ID taught in school would be happy to give an Imam equal time to talk in class about jihad?

24 Bloodnok  6/22/08 11:26:13 am reply quote 3

re: #18 ccrnyc

Uncalled for IMHO.

25 Charles  6/22/08 11:26:48 am reply quote 5

I added a photo of the student's burned arm, also from the Mt Vernon News.

26 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:27:11 am reply quote 0

Stone Cold said, "And I just whooped your ass"
- Austin 3:16

27 donna quixote  6/22/08 11:27:24 am reply quote 1

This man should have had to remove the posters and other religious items. When they weren't removed he should been given his 5 minutes in front of the school board and then fired. I am not a friend of the ACLU but if this had not happened I would have made a call.

28 KingKenrod  6/22/08 11:28:05 am reply quote 0

FCA = Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

29 zombie  6/22/08 11:28:26 am reply quote 1

re: #25 Charles

I added a photo of the student's burned arm, also from the Mt Vernon News.

They say the scar "won't be permanent," but injuries to the skin curing childhood -- even minor injuries -- can leave faint scars for life. I've got the proof on my own skin in several places.

30 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:28:53 am reply quote 3

re: #23 yma o hyd

I wonder if any of the people who want ID taught in school would be happy to give an Imam equal time to talk in class about jihad?

There have already been incidents, reported here, of "Muslim weeks" being inflicted on kids in various school districts, in which the kids learn a bowdlerized version of the Koran, play at being Islamic, etc.

It would be interesting to do a chart cross-referencing such incidents and the teaching of ID.

31 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:28:53 am reply quote 2

re: #25 Charles

I added a photo of the student's burned arm, also from the Mt Vernon News.

If that's an "X", it's the most lop-sided one I've ever seen.

32 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:29:08 am reply quote 7

re: #23 yma o hyd

Absolutely.

Shouldn't it be obvious that, as soon as any sort of religious proselytising is allowed in public schools, it will be impossible to restrict this to Christian beliefs only.

I wonder if any of the people who want ID taught in school would be happy to give an Imam equal time to talk in class about jihad?

A point that has been raised here by others. Those who support teaching ID have not bothered to look at the unintended consequences.

33 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:29:26 am reply quote -3

re: #29 zombie

They say the scar "won't be permanent," but injuries to the skin curing childhood -- even minor injuries -- can leave faint scars for life. I've got the proof on my own skin in several places.

He can use it as a battle scar to pick up chicks.

34 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:30:07 am reply quote 2

re: #31 MandyManners

If that's an "X", it's the most lop-sided one I've ever seen.

It is an X-teacher. It is fired. It is canned. It has ceased to be.

35 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:30:10 am reply quote 0

re: #29 zombie

They say the scar "won't be permanent," but injuries to the skin curing childhood -- even minor injuries -- can leave faint scars for life. I've got the proof on my own skin in several places.

I hope the student's parents will collect damages for any corrective procedures he need to undergo.

36 2by2  6/22/08 11:30:15 am reply quote 1

re: #25 Charles

unbelievable, the guy needs to be locked up.
ps what's the difference between burning an X or cross into a student's skin?
would an X be ok with the board of ed?

37 Maximu§  6/22/08 11:30:38 am reply quote 0

Clearly this teacher went overboard and should be fired, but once any reference to God was taken out of the classrooms, its been a slippery slope.....can anyone say the students we're breeding are better that several generations ago?

Look around, pledge allegiance to the flag banned, teenage girls competing to see who gets pregnant 1st, classroom discipline in the toilet, plummeting graduation rates, students who can't even read or write and this is progress?

Yeah, lets focus on one crazy Christian teacher.....we all know Christians are the problem right?

38 yma o hyd  6/22/08 11:31:05 am reply quote 2

re: #19 zombie

The poor children of America.

On one hand you have crypto-Marxist teachers showing them "An Inconvenient Truth," which is a pack of lies, and then they go into the next class and the teacher shows them "Expelled," which is an entirely different pack of lies.

I say: NO INDOCTRINATION IN THE CLASSROOM, whatever the teacher's political or religious orientation may be.

Our kids don't stand a chance in this environment.

Too right!
Its not as if the proper stuff which they need to learn isn't hard enough anyway.

What all those people do, who try to indoctrinate children, is this: they do not teach children how to think for themselves.

That, thinking for oneself, is the most important thing to be taught and learned.

39 Shug  6/22/08 11:32:47 am reply quote 2

re: #36 2by2

unbelievable, the guy needs to be locked up.
ps what's the difference between burning an X or cross into a student's skin?
would an X be ok with the board of ed?


if said x was was for malcom x, they are cool with it

40 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:33:08 am reply quote 2

re: #34 buzzsawmonkey

It is an X-teacher. It is fired. It is canned. It has ceased to be.

His calling it an "X" when it clearly isn't is proof that he knew what he was doing was wrong.

41 BBev  6/22/08 11:33:20 am reply quote 1

re: #18 ccrnyc

At least he didn't touch him inappropriately like the Catholic Priests do.

Now that was offensive, It was a few bad apples not ALL!

42 rawmuse  6/22/08 11:33:28 am reply quote 1

This is a seriously disturbed person.

43 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:33:31 am reply quote 4

re: #38 yma o hyd

What all those people do, who try to indoctrinate children, is this: they do not teach children how to think for themselves.

That, thinking for oneself, is the most important thing to be taught and learned.

They don't want to teach children to think for themselves; quite the contrary.

And they intentionally deny the children in their charge the tools to enable them to do so.

44 Ojoe  6/22/08 11:34:27 am reply quote 5

This kind of guy, if not checked, will ruin the beneficial practice
of any wholesome religion for the rest of us.

He's a mole from the dark side.

45 Tigger2005  6/22/08 11:35:25 am reply quote 2

At the link, lots of articles about people "rallying to the support" of this professor. What clueless idiots.

Even if you agree with this professor's religious beliefs and his views on "intelligent design," what he did is simply indefensible. He turned his classroom into Sunday school. Aren't there churches for that?

And burning a cross on a student's arm...good grief. Are these people "rallying to his support" cool with branding children?

46 Jimmy the Notable  6/22/08 11:35:52 am reply quote 2
* Mr. Freshwater gave an extra credit assignment for students to view the movie “Expelled” which does involve intelligent design.

This doesn't sound any worse than a history professor Assigning Michael Moore or Howard Zinn, which I know has been done.

47 2by2  6/22/08 11:36:18 am reply quote 2

re: #39 Shug

shouldn't teachers stay away from any branding devices?
sounds like he learned his trade from the Inquisition.

48 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:36:33 am reply quote 1

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

They don't want to teach children to think for themselves; quite the contrary.

And they intentionally deny the children in their charge the tools to enable them to do so.

Quite right, if they teach the children how to think critically then the children may be able to deduce that *gasp* Obama and his ilk are full of sh*t!

/Can't have that now can we...

49 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:37:09 am reply quote 0

re: #44 Ojoe

This kind of guy, if not checked, will ruin the beneficial practice
of any wholesome religion for the rest of us.

He's a mole from the dark side.

WELL SAID!

50 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:37:17 am reply quote 1

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

They don't want to teach children to think for themselves; quite the contrary.

And they intentionally deny the children in their charge the tools to enable them to do so.

Exactly- science being one of the fields where things like observation, etc. would harm the attempts to further indoctrinate the children.

51 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:37:38 am reply quote 2

FTA:

Twenty sheets of paper with lines for 48 signatures each were being signed by the students, some from the high school and some from the middle school. The petition read: “By signing this petition I am showing my support for Mr. John Freshwater and his stance for displaying his Bible. He had all rights to do so, and we stand by his side.


I wonder how many I.P Freeley's and Dick Hurtz's signed that petition.

52 funky chicken  6/22/08 11:37:55 am reply quote 11

re: #19 zombie

The poor children of America.

On one hand you have crypto-Marxist teachers showing them "An Inconvenient Truth," which is a pack of lies, and then they go into the next class and the teacher shows them "Expelled," which is an entirely different pack of lies.

I say: NO INDOCTRINATION IN THE CLASSROOM, whatever the teacher's political or religious orientation may be.

Our kids don't stand a chance in this environment.

That's why I keep posting my analogy:

"global warming" : liberals :: "creation science" : conservatives

religious indoctrination and ridiculous pseudoscience have no place in the classroom, and it discredits every person who defends the crap.

it also makes it damn hard to attack "global warming" on the basis of its obvious scientific deficits when so many on the right want to cling to their very own scientific illiteracy. grrr

53 yma o hyd  6/22/08 11:37:57 am reply quote 6

re: #37 Maximu§

Clearly this teacher went overboard and should be fired, but once any reference to God was taken out of the classrooms, its been a slippery slope.....can anyone say the students we're breeding are better that several generations ago?

Look around, pledge allegiance to the flag banned, teenage girls competing to see who gets pregnant 1st, classroom discipline in the toilet, plummeting graduation rates, students who can't even read or write and this is progress?

Yeah, lets focus on one crazy Christian teacher.....we all know Christians are the problem right?

I don't think its about crazy Christian teachers as such.
After all, there are other crazy teachers, I'm sure.

Its about not having religious indoctrination of any kind in a public school.
I'd even go so far and say that if you allow Christian teachigns in a public school, then you must allow not just Islam, but other 'religions' into the classroom as well - Wicca, Hinduism, Shintoism, Budhdism ...
Nothing against religious teachings in proper settings - but not in a place where the children ahve no choice but to listen, and where whackos are given free hand.

All the other things you mention fall under proper discipline, not just of the pupils but of the parents as well.
Nothing to do with Christianity in schools.

54 nyc redneck  6/22/08 11:39:48 am reply quote 1

how could anyone be left to teach science to 13 yr. old kids, if he thinks burning them is appropriate.
he should be removed. he sounds crazy.

55 quickjustice  6/22/08 11:39:56 am reply quote 6

Only extremists take limited ideas to an extreme. Science is a method of inquiry, not a religion. By definition it is limited to the physical universe, and to investigation of things that can be observed and measured. Science is not, and cannot be, metaphysical.

Religion, by contrast, is in the realm of metaphysics. Anyone who turns science into a religion is an extremist. It's a serious mistake for religious people to treat science as a contrary religious philosophy, accepting the false premises of the pseudo-scientific extremists. This teacher clearly fell into that trap. That's just sad.

56 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  6/22/08 11:40:53 am reply quote 1

I'm glad he was fired. Now I hope he will get locked in the pokey for a good, long time.

There is no excuse for this at all...no matter what the religion.

57 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:41:20 am reply quote 4

re: #52 funky chicken

While I agree with the spirit of your post (which, if I believe is "children should be educated, not indoctrinated") I would suggest a minor adjustment in your analogy:

"global warming" : liberals :: "creation science" : conservatives religious fundamentalists.

58 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:41:36 am reply quote 3

I wonder what Education Professor William Ayers has to say about this?

I wonder what Education Professor William Ayers would have to say about a similar incident, if one could be found, where the teacher in question was browbeating the students over global warming?

59 Bloodnok  6/22/08 11:42:23 am reply quote 4

re: #46 Jimmy the Notable

This doesn't sound any worse than a history professor Assigning Michael Moore or Howard Zinn, which I know has been done.

It doesn't sound any better either. If one is against assigning Moore or Zinn they should be against this as well.

60 zombie  6/22/08 11:43:09 am reply quote 2

Wow, look at comments #18 and #19 in a row above. One has a "-6" rating and one has a "+9". A 15-point spread, in the space of one comment!

The lizards are opinionated today!

61 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 11:43:50 am reply quote 4

re: #5 astronmr20

As a believer, it's crap like this that gives the rest a bad name.

Believer in God or not, this guy clearly has some mental issues. I don't have a problem with someone having faith in the existance of God, a God they also believe to have created the Universe and life. I do have a problem with someone posing as a science teacher when all they have to disagree with the material is "faith".

Would you want a lawyer, accountant or police detective to use the same type of "logic" involved in the "science" of intelligent design? I think not. Thank goodness we do not allow such religious law into systems based solely upon reason and fact rather than a person's own unprovable beliefs. Some countries don't allow such nicities...see Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran and the like who have adopted Sharia Law. They too oppose teaching of evolution for purely religious reasons stemmed from strict literal interpretations of books alleged to be divine in nature. And unlike here in America, the term "flat Earther" isn't taken with the light-hearted humerous nature that we take it in.

62 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:44:01 am reply quote 3

re: #60 zombie

I'm opinionated every day.

63 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 11:44:02 am reply quote 2

re: #60 zombie

Wow, look at comments #18 and #19 in a row above. One has a "-6" rating and one has a "+9". A 15-point spread, in the space of one comment!

The lizards are opinionated today!

Are people going to start betting on the LGF point spread now?

64 Shug  6/22/08 11:44:25 am reply quote 2

still something that isn't being reported.

How could a student let somebody do that to them?

anybody tries to brand me and it's on.

by examining these burns this took some time. there are many contact points

65 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:45:44 am reply quote 1

re: #64 Shug

It's possible this child was afraid to tell his teacher (an authority figure) "no".

66 ccrnyc  6/22/08 11:46:11 am reply quote -2

re: #63 buzzsawmonkey

Are people going to start betting on the LGF point spread now?

Whats the over/under, because if I knew I was being graded I would have mentioned a reach around.

67 Ojoe  6/22/08 11:47:22 am reply quote 0

re: #49 CIA Reject

Thank you.

68 gman  6/22/08 11:47:23 am reply quote 1

re: #60 zombie

Wow, look at comments #18 and #19 in a row above. One has a "-6" rating and one has a "+9". A 15-point spread, in the space of one comment!

The lizards are opinionated today!

We're feeling our oats, er, I mean leafy lizard vegetables today!

69 Shug  6/22/08 11:47:35 am reply quote 1

re: #65 Sharmuta


yes that is one of the two scenarios I am going with

Brainwashing and severe intimidation on the part of this monster Freshwater

or

this young kid is on the same page as freshwater and was just fine with it until the marks showed up , his parents saw it, and he freaked and ratted out his teacher


I am going with option A

70 McJenny50  6/22/08 11:47:56 am reply quote 1

It's strange that the people of Mt Vernon (including former students) see this only as a problem with a Bible laying on his desk. No one in the discussion section of the newspaper seems to go beyond that point and no real mention of teaching religion.

Discussion

71 SasquatchOnSteroids  6/22/08 11:48:07 am reply quote 3

re: #64 Shug

still something that isn't being reported.

How could a student let somebody do that to them?

anybody tries to brand me and it's on.

by examining these burns this took some time. there are many contact points

That to me doesn't matter. There is 1 adult and however many kids.
Well, the 1 adult is open for debate, but even if the kid begged him to do it, He's supposed to be the one with judgement. He clearly doesn't have his head on straight.

72 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:48:21 am reply quote 0

re: #62 Sharmuta

I'm opinionated every day.

Nooooooooooooooo. Really? You don't say.

*rad*

73 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:48:51 am reply quote 0

re: #64 Shug

still something that isn't being reported.

How could a student let somebody do that to them?

anybody tries to brand me and it's on.

by examining these burns this took some time. there are many contact points

Sway of authority?

74 funky chicken  6/22/08 11:48:54 am reply quote 0

re: #57 CIA Reject

While I agree with the spirit of your post (which, if I believe is "children should be educated, not indoctrinated") I would suggest a minor adjustment in your analogy:

"global warming" : liberals :: "creation science" : conservatives religious fundamentalists.

If only that were true. I've seen way too many conservatives jump to defend folks who preach "intelligent design" even though they don't believe it themselves.

75 Shug  6/22/08 11:49:06 am reply quote 1

re: #60 zombie

Wow, look at comments #18 and #19 in a row above. One has a "-6" rating and one has a "+9". A 15-point spread, in the space of one comment!

The lizards are opinionated today!


20 points.

It's like the detroit lions vs anybody

76 Ojoe  6/22/08 11:49:16 am reply quote 0

re: #18 ccrnyc

They don't all

77 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:49:20 am reply quote 0

re: #64 Shug

still something that isn't being reported.

How could a student let somebody do that to them?

anybody tries to brand me and it's on.

by examining these burns this took some time. there are many contact points

Especially of one who sets himself up as a religious authority.

78 Jimmy the Notable  6/22/08 11:49:53 am reply quote -1

re: #59 Bloodnok

It doesn't sound any better either. If one is against assigning Moore or Zinn they should be against this as well.

Just to let you know, I'm against this as well. This guy sounds nuts. I'm just 99% certain that nobody's ever been fired for showing a Michael Moore film, and that that kind of indoctrination is much more widespread so it deserves more coverage than a few bad eggs teaching creationism. Liberalism is far more dangerous than creationism anyway.

79 nyc redneck  6/22/08 11:50:01 am reply quote 1

re: #64 Shug

still something that isn't being reported.

How could a student let somebody do that to them?

anybody tries to brand me and it's on.

by examining these burns this took some time. there are many contact points

these kids are 13 yrs, old,
i don't think they are in a position to have 'consented' in any legal way.
perhaps he was given extra credit or promise of a good grade.
it doesn;t seem appropriate to consider the kid had culpability in this.
altho it would be interesting to know what he was thinking.

80 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:50:48 am reply quote 0

re: #67 Ojoe

Thank you.

You're most welcome - your comment crystallized my thoughts exactly. Most people do not realize the scope of what is being played out here and are far too willing to write people like this teacher off as cranks rather than consider the possibility that the stakes are much higher.

81 Writhing Funzos  6/22/08 11:51:20 am reply quote -3

What a huge non-story about one nutcase.

82 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:51:29 am reply quote 2

re: #69 Shug

The one time I ever told a teacher, "No- I'm not going to do that" was in (ironically enough) my sophomore biology class. I didn't want to dissect a fetal pig. He snapped at me, "Fine- you can do all the written work for this project!"

I thought about it for a moment, joined my study group of three of my classmates with the fetal pig, and looked at all of them. None of them wanted to touch the pig either. So- I took charge, did most of the dissecting and got an A.

83 theheat  6/22/08 11:51:34 am reply quote -3

Gee, I bet if anyone bothered to follow the historical breadcrumb trail to full-blown Fundie Wack-Job that brands students, it wouldn't be very difficult. It isn't as if this asshat hadn't been walking fence for quite some time with his prior shenanigans. And now everyone feigns surprise?

I'm sure he can find another teaching job at one of the many Fine Fundie Schools that proudly fight the good fight across the US. He's experienced, dedicated, and batshit nuts. They seem to love those types serving up the Fundie Kool-Aid.

84 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:51:56 am reply quote 0

re: #72 MandyManners

I know. SHOCKA! lol

85 Egfrow  6/22/08 11:52:00 am reply quote 1

Objectivity is overridden when mythology is included in the scientific method. There is morality that divides true right from wrong but morality exists in the context of humankind. Evil is defined by anything we measure outside that point of view. If there is intelligent design we could never teach this because we don't actually have an proof of what that actually is. Human kind's primary weapon against the indifference of the universe is reason and fact. It humankind's only real survival tool. Mixing Science and religion is a huge mistake. Religion should be a personal tool and belief. We are being asked to prove a negative in that we are being asked that the absence of evidence is evidence of the possible. This man has no right to force is believes into a science class. He should teach a religious class instead. That is more suited to his ambitions.

87 yma o hyd  6/22/08 11:53:02 am reply quote 0

re: #62 Sharmuta

I'm opinionated every day.

Good for you!
:-))

88 Maximu§  6/22/08 11:54:19 am reply quote 2

Ah, I see I got dinged down....how nice.

You see its all about Balance, I sure don't want to see any teachers like this teaching children and I sure don't want to see our schools become Christian Madrassas, but the pendulum has swung too far away from God and we're seeing the results

Just go to your local Mall and look at the current flock we have produced. With few exceptions, the most selfish, hateful, angry, drugged out, sexed-up and stupid generation this country has ever seen.

If this story did not involve Christianity.....would it have gotton so much attention? If a liberal teacher branded this poor student with a different symbol, would this story have international legs? No, I'm betting it would not.

One stupid crackpot is used as a club to attack the whole faith. Go ahead and ding me down.....its a badge of Honor.

89 MandyManners  6/22/08 11:54:20 am reply quote 1

re: #83 theheat

Hyperbolic much?

90 Sharmuta  6/22/08 11:55:11 am reply quote 1

re: #82 Sharmuta

I should add- my point being that I never thought to tell a teacher "no". This kid might have felt he had no choice but to accept his teacher's dictates in the classroom. If he was raised to respect authority, he most certainly would not have thought to tell the authority in that room "no".

91 debutaunt  6/22/08 11:55:32 am reply quote 0

Tag teaming seems to be kind of obvious.

92 CIA Reject  6/22/08 11:55:57 am reply quote 0

re: #74 funky chicken

If only that were true. I've seen way too many conservatives jump to defend folks who preach "intelligent design" even though they don't believe it themselves.

Just out of curiosity: The "conservatives" you've seen do this- are they by any chance of the Buchanan / McLaughlin / Dornan variety (ie lunatics)?

93 Killgore Trout  6/22/08 11:55:58 am reply quote 6

re: #88 Maximu§


If this story did not involve Christianity.....would it have gotton so much attention?


Yes. Imagine if he was Muslim. Try Mormon or Scientologist.

94 huckfunn  6/22/08 11:56:59 am reply quote 0

This "teacher" is clearly out of bounds in his actions and should be fired, but there is also a fundamental problem with many science teachers not understanding the basic principles of science. Here's an article from TCU Magazine (as in Texas Christian University) showing the results of Assistant Professor Mark Bloom's research and survey of middle school and high school science teachers.
http://www.magazine.tcu.edu/articles/200 8-02-AC1.asp

If the teacher's don't understand, how can we expect the students to get it?

95 Shug  6/22/08 11:57:44 am reply quote 1

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yes. Imagine if he was Muslim. Try Mormon or Scientologist.

Muslim : INTOLERANCE ! This is their culture

Mormon : CULTISTS ! Jail him !

Scientologist : Instead of a cross, there would have been a dollar sign burned into the kid.
And his parents would have been so proud. Nobody would have found out

96 Fasternu426  6/22/08 11:57:47 am reply quote 6

If he wants to teach religion. I'm sure there's a church somewhere that will let him teach a Sunday school class. He can invite the kids to his church and teach it to them there. Some weak minds easily confuse evangelizing with indoctrination. I don't want anyone forcing religion on my children! As a Christian, I am not wanting my children getting a religious education from a public school. It's my responsibility as a father, and the head of my household to teach this to my children. If a teacher wants to usurp my household, he's going to have to fight me for it, and I can fight.

97 SasquatchOnSteroids  6/22/08 11:58:06 am reply quote 0

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Or astrologist. Well worth the view.

98 Charles  6/22/08 11:58:21 am reply quote 3

re: #94 huckfunn

If the teacher's don't understand, how can we expect the students to get it?

Maybe teaching "intelligent design" will help.

cough

99 shanec99  6/22/08 11:58:38 am reply quote 6

This is not funny.

This must rank up there with the child abuse perpetuated by the Islamic fundamentalists that they call female circumcision (the rest of us call it female genital mutilation).

But the attitudes are different, in Christian nations we see this behavior as aberrant and destructive. In Islamic societies abuses like FGM and are defended as essential to the culture and religion.

Let us pray that this fool is fired by the school board, arrested by the police and sued by child's parents.

100 Racer X  6/22/08 11:59:07 am reply quote 0

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Suspended: Astrology under fire

I like the chick who is a water sign. Bong water.

101 paxnhymn  6/22/08 11:59:19 am reply quote 0

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Suspended: Astrology under fire

I LOVE THAT! A Dr. that spews, "old thinking is that you need empirical evidence"! That's effing beautiful! he must have a doctorate in philosophy and be a big DeCarte fan!..


too rich!

102 Maximu§  6/22/08 11:59:38 am reply quote 4

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yes. Imagine if he was Muslim. Try Mormon or Scientologist.

Please, if he was a Muslim teacher....it would be buried. Charles proved the abuse that was going on (I think in Virginia) at a Muslim school and that story never got far.

Please don't think I'm protecting this POS, by all means.

103 MandyManners  6/22/08 12:00:09 pm reply quote 3

re: #94 huckfunn

This "teacher" is clearly out of bounds in his actions and should be fired, but there is also a fundamental problem with many science teachers not understanding the basic principles of science. Here's an article from TCU Magazine (as in Texas Christian University) showing the results of Assistant Professor Mark Bloom's research and survey of middle school and high school science teachers.
http://www.magazine.tcu.edu/articles/200 8-02-AC1.asp

If the teacher's don't understand, how can we expect the students to get it?

This is not about a stupid teacher. It's about an arrogant teacher who sought to force his views upon kids entrusted to his care.

104 NY Nana  6/22/08 12:00:31 pm reply quote 0

re: #93 Killgore Trout

OT: for you. ;)

105 SasquatchOnSteroids  6/22/08 12:00:41 pm reply quote 0

re: #100 Racer X

I like the chick who is a water sign. Bong water.

Pro-gravity establishment. Rotating title.

106 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 12:01:57 pm reply quote 2

re: #37 Maximu§

re: #88 Maximu§

Just how would you propose "putting G-d back in the schools?"

107 eclectic infidel  6/22/08 12:02:18 pm reply quote 7

re: #37 Maximu§

Clearly this teacher went overboard and should be fired, but once any reference to God was taken out of the classrooms, its been a slippery slope.....can anyone say the students we're breeding are better that several generations ago?

Look around, pledge allegiance to the flag banned, teenage girls competing to see who gets pregnant 1st, classroom discipline in the toilet, plummeting graduation rates, students who can't even read or write and this is progress?

Yeah, lets focus on one crazy Christian teacher.....we all know Christians are the problem right?

Public schools are not mediums for religion, PERIOD. This includes references to supernatural deities (READ: Jesus; Allah). I agree with other more conservative posters that political evangelism should be kept the heck out of classrooms (READ: global warming, leftist rants, etc.) as well.

Christians are not the enemy. Christians who burn crosses into a child's arm; who teach theology/ID in lieu of established science, are.

108 Maximu§  6/22/08 12:03:06 pm reply quote 0<