LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

  

Link address:
Link title:
Description: 
Remaining:

'Intelligent Design' Teacher Back Story

Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 6:06:46 pm PDT

Paul Sunstone has some very interesting details on the story behind the story of that Ohio creationist science teacher who burned a cross into a student’s arm: The Firing of John Freshwater.

Yesterday’s report reveals Mr. Freshwater has a long history of complaints against him — all of which have been more or less ignored until the most recent ones. John Freshwater has taught at Mount Vernon Middle School for 21 years. For at least the past 11 years, he has been the subject of numerous complaints lodged against him by his fellow teachers, his students, and their parents.

His colleagues over at the high school, for instance, claim his teaching of evolution is so flawed they are forced to re-teach the subject to his students when they get into high school. It has also come out that Mr. Freshwater has been told on at least several occasions to change his behavior, but has refused to do so. Only now, years after the complaints first started coming in, has anything been done about them.

Today, Friday, the School Board “...unanimously passed a resolution of intent to consider the termination of [Mr. Freshwater’s] teaching contract. “Board president Ian Watson said the board will proceed with termination at its meeting on July 7, unless Freshwater files a written request for a hearing within 10 days of receiving notice of the board’s intent to fire him.”

Yet even before today’s School Board news, Mr. Freshwater’s friends were aiming to payback the Board. The melodramatic Minutemen United group earlier this week launched a drive to recall the School Board. Although the drive does not seem to have much chance of succeeding, it might indicate just how hot tempers are in Mount Vernon these days.

Minutemen United was founded by David Daubenmire, a man who was himself sued by the ACLU in 1999 for leading the high school football team he coached in prayer. Mr. Daubenmire is a close friend of Mr. Freshwater and has called the accusations against him a “witch hunt”. Mr. Daubenmire has said:

The science experiment [the alleged burning of the student] took place in December, and the parents did not go to the police and didn’t file a criminal complaint. It was not until April, when John Freshwater refused to remove his Bible, that the school board rapidly made the decision to accuse him of things and then go back and find evidence.

With the exception of the science experiment, John Freshwater is teaching the beliefs and values that the majority of people in this community agree with. The only thing the On Call report found is evidence that Mr. Freshwater is a Christian.

So, Mr. Daubenmire is still trying to spin the story as merely about John Freshwater displaying a Bible.

There is much more to this story than I have the space for — so I have provided references and further reading at the end of this post. It occurs to me, however, that we have here one instance of what’s going on in many hundreds — even thousands — of science classrooms across the country. Teachers entrusted to teach science are instead teaching creationism and intelligent design.

798 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Roentgen  6/22/08 6:07:50 pm reply quote 0

Freshwater is getting stale.

2 Dark_Falcon  6/22/08 6:10:46 pm reply quote 1

This guy is someone we need to denounce. Someone this crazy needs to be thorn under the bus, ASAP.

3 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:12:25 pm reply quote 10

It's nice to know the teachers' union protects incompetents of all backgrounds.

4 pegcity  6/22/08 6:12:40 pm reply quote 2

The guy sounds like an asshole

5 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:13:14 pm reply quote 0

Daubenmire = smearing with mud

6 jaunte  6/22/08 6:16:09 pm reply quote 0

Here's the device used to burn the student: "Electro-technic Model BD 10-A."
[Link: www.electrotechnicproduct.com...]

7 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:16:09 pm reply quote 1

About all I can say right now is that I am very happy that this did not take place in the South...especially in Tennessee.

8 EC Marm  6/22/08 6:17:04 pm reply quote 6

Please, no mention of FGM in this thread.

9 MarkX  6/22/08 6:17:23 pm reply quote 9
John Freshwater has taught at Mount Vernon Middle School for 21 years. For at least the past 11 years, he has been the subject of numerous complaints lodged against him by his fellow teachers, his students, and their parents.

Got to admit, those teachers have a hell of a union.

Impossible to fire one.

10 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:17:35 pm reply quote 12

I just am in awe of this whole situation. As someone who actually agrees that Christianity is under attack in America due to a misguided commitment to multi-culturalism, I don't see this as the case here. This moron is not the target of discrimination.

11 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:17:47 pm reply quote 7

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

12 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:17:58 pm reply quote 0

re: #7 MandyManners

About all I can say right now is that I am very happy that this did not take place in the South...especially in Tennessee.

To a leftist from CA or NY, Ohio is considered the South.

13 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:18:31 pm reply quote 0

re: #8 EC Marm

Please, no mention of FGM in this thread.

Thank you!

14 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:18:33 pm reply quote 2

re: #9 MarkX

Got to admit, those teachers have a hell of a union.

Impossible to fire one.

Gotta love a system that will protect teachers no matter how incompetent, derranged or idiotic they might be.

15 MarkX  6/22/08 6:18:43 pm reply quote 0

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

16 The Other Les  6/22/08 6:18:50 pm reply quote 1

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

No, but it is still intolerable conduct.

17 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:19:00 pm reply quote 0

re: #12 HelloDare

To a leftist from CA or NY, Ohio is considered the South.

Ignorant pukes.

18 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:19:00 pm reply quote 2

You add Freshwater and Daubenmire, you have a whole wetland ecosystem.

19 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:19:11 pm reply quote -4

What gets me about this story is that they're running this guy into the ground while teachers with liberal agendas get a free ticket to brainwash students.

Don't get me wrong, I think this teacher is a jerk and should get fired (though I do suspect embellishment on the cross-burning story as I've played with those guns before and have never heard of one leaving a mark) But I believe in equal treatment for douchebaggery in all its forms, especially when it comes to the education of our kids. Case in point: Did Mr. "Jesus Glasses" out in California get fired?

20 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:19:19 pm reply quote 0

re: #15 MarkX

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

Yes. Today.

21 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:20:01 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 The Other Les

No, but it is still intolerable conduct.

So is picking one's nose in public.

22 2by2  6/22/08 6:20:11 pm reply quote 0

re: #15 MarkX

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

don't go there, check the previous thread on the topic......

23 BignJames  6/22/08 6:20:17 pm reply quote 10

Zealots are dangerous....no matter their religion or ideaology.IMO

24 NonNativeTexan  6/22/08 6:20:21 pm reply quote 1

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

25 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:20:32 pm reply quote 1

The multicultists will back Freshwater because he inflicted a cross-burning on a white student.

26 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:20:40 pm reply quote 0

re: #17 MandyManners

Ignorant pukes.

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

27 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:20:48 pm reply quote 0

re: #19 NoSpam

I agree that any teacher, in the day of the illiterate high-school graduate, who focuses on indoctrination instead of education should be fired. Public education is broken and broken on a grand scale at that.

28 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:20:49 pm reply quote -5

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.


The other stuff about this teacher is true is true, but I suspect that the kid did it to himself. (or it was done to him by a friend)--which is also a good explanation as to why the kid's parents waited so long to come forward with it.

29 june_july  6/22/08 6:20:54 pm reply quote 2

How can America's children go into the future and compete with the hard-working graduates of the rest of the world if their teachers are forcing the pablum of religious dogma down their throats, rather than real science.

In every study done in the past decade that I can recall, US students have performed abysmally compared to others, almost never in the top 10 in basic skills and knowledge, and sometimes far worse. Excuses are always made, but they are just that.

Right now it is US Universities keep us in the science game, as they are well funded and very deep in talent based on recruitment from all over the world, but how long will that continue for if the raw material is being destroyed.

30 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:20:54 pm reply quote 15
With the exception of the science experiment, John Freshwater is teaching the beliefs and values that the majority of people in this community agree with

Except that's NOT HIS JOB!

His job was to teach science, not religious beliefs.

31 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:21:11 pm reply quote 2

re: #26 HelloDare

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

No, that's Dearborn, Michigan.

32 MarkX  6/22/08 6:21:21 pm reply quote 0

re: #14 DeathtotheSwiss

Gotta love a system that will protect teachers no matter how incompetent, derranged or idiotic they might be.

Right.

This actually reminds me of Big Chief Churchill of Colorado.

Regardless of how incompetent, it is impossible to get rid of teachers/professors in the U.S.

33 taxfreekiller  6/22/08 6:21:28 pm reply quote 1

Ya, but,

Pat Buchanan likes the class.

34 Killgore Trout  6/22/08 6:21:30 pm reply quote 0

Error report?

Now listening: Symphony No.0 in D minor


P.S. Evolution thread!

35 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:21:32 pm reply quote 0

re: #24 NonNativeTexan

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

I'm a little bit confused about that.

36 Alouette  6/22/08 6:21:40 pm reply quote 2

GARRISON: Now I, for one, think evolution is a bunch of BULLCRAP. But I've been told I have to teach it anyway. It was thought up by Charles Darwin and it goes something like this:

[goes up to a large poster of evolution and begins pointing things out with her pointer.]

In the beginning we were all fish. Okay? Swimming around in the water. And then one day a couple of fish had a retard baby, and the retard baby was different, so it got to live. So Retard Fish goes on to make more retard babies, and then one day, a retard baby fish crawled out of the ocean with its

[waves his left hand limply]

mutant fish hands... and it had buttsex with a squirrel or something and made this.

[points to a rodent]

retard frog squirrel, and then that had a retard baby which was a... monkey fish-frog... And then this monkey fish-frog had buttsex with that monkey, and... that monkey had a mutant retard baby that screwed another monkey and... that made you!

[faces the class. A new girl is seated in the front row, looking around]

So there you go! You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys havin' buttsex with a fish-squirrel! Congratulations!

CARTMAN: [hopping out of his chair and running out] HEHHH! I can't take it anymore! HAAAAAH!

37 BignJames  6/22/08 6:22:09 pm reply quote 0

re: #17 MandyManners

I barely consider Va. the South.

38 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:22:25 pm reply quote 0

re: #26 HelloDare

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

For real?!

39 Killgore Trout  6/22/08 6:23:36 pm reply quote 2

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

40 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:23:51 pm reply quote 5
Mr. Daubenmire is a close friend of Mr. Freshwater and has called the accusations against him a “witch hunt”.

Oh, the irony of a fundamentalist calling it a "witch hunt".

41 lawhawk  6/22/08 6:23:52 pm reply quote 4

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

It's nice to know the teachers' union protects incompetents of all backgrounds.

Unions protect the incompetents, but teachers unions are especially protective of the incompetent or even hazardous to the health of the charges they're supposed to keep.

In NYC, there's a building where teachers who are awaiting disciplinary hearings get to spend their days - getting paid not to teach.

42 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:23:58 pm reply quote 0

re: #28 NoSpam

The other stuff about this teacher is true is true, but I suspect that the kid did it to himself. (or it was done to him by a friend)--which is also a good explanation as to why the kid's parents waited so long to come forward with it.

As mama winger posted in the earlier thread, kids that age are into all kinds of shit.

But, that does not excuse the teacher's actions.

43 godfrey  6/22/08 6:24:12 pm reply quote 0

Bruckner, cool.

In what sense is this Mr. Freshwater a "teacher" if his colleagues have to re-teach his students?

44 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:24:20 pm reply quote 0

re: #27 DeathtotheSwiss

It's sad when your education system becomes a big bag of epic fail...

Fortunately, the worst I got was a teacher in middle school who was a died-in-the-wool 60's radical communist stereotype. XD But she wasn't very good at it.

45 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:24:56 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 BignJames

I barely consider Va. the South.

*whack*

46 buzzsawmonkey  6/22/08 6:24:56 pm reply quote 1

re: #41 lawhawk

In NYC, there's a building where teachers who are awaiting disciplinary hearings get to spend their days - getting paid not to teach.

I'm sure it's value for the money.

47 EC Marm  6/22/08 6:25:01 pm reply quote 0

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Now listening: Symphony No.0 in D minor


I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

48 taxfreekiller  6/22/08 6:25:04 pm reply quote 0

Fact is all this you now behold, all this about you, all this sky, all this darkness, all this wiggly little subatomic particles who just hate gravity, all of it the creation of taxfreekiller, thats why its so f'up.

Facts are unknown yet of the when, where, and why of my work.

49 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:25:51 pm reply quote 3

re: #24 NonNativeTexan

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

The idea of multi-culturalism has made it's goal the destruction of the American culture. I'm agnostic mind you, but I'm not anti-religion, and it is the fact that the majority of white Americans are Christian that Christianity is under attack. The idea is of course that white Christians are evil and their beliefs should not only be ignored but despised. This case of course, has nothing to do with the actual issue.

I've dealt with much of this multi-cultural nonsense myself. When talking about (earlier mentioned on this very thread) the female castration going on in Africa I heard the argument that, "It's their culture, you can't judge them for it."

If it weren't for my lack of faith I'd have called my anger "righteous".

50 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:26:11 pm reply quote -2

re: #42 MandyManners


But, that does not excuse the teacher's actions.

Of course not. But dishonesty doesn't help anybody.

51 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:26:42 pm reply quote 0

Teenage boy, you got to wonder. Maybe the dots were the preliminary outline for this sword tattoo. (strong language warning)

52 MarkX  6/22/08 6:26:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #22 2by2

don't go there, check the previous thread on the topic......

No, thanks, I won't go there. I try to stay out of the ID/Evo debates.

They usually go 1,000+ post, everyone yells, and everyone gets pissed off.

I don't have a dog in that fight.

53 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:27:05 pm reply quote 1

re: #28 NoSpam

I suggest you read the link before you blame the victim.

54 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:27:17 pm reply quote 0

re: #47 EC Marm

I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

It's only once you start getting into the imaginary #'s that the music starts to sound a little strange...I mean, it's kind of hard to play notes that don't exist on any standard plane.

55 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:27:24 pm reply quote 0

re: #38 MandyManners

For real?!

Yes. A relative, I'm ashamed to say.

56 Dar ul Harb  6/22/08 6:27:36 pm reply quote 0

re: #47 EC Marm

I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

Maybe they thought they had the whole opus numbering worked out, and another symphony turned up?

57 2by2  6/22/08 6:27:52 pm reply quote 0

re: #30 Sharmuta

Except that's NOT HIS JOB!

His job was to teach science, not religious beliefs.

apparently he did a piss poor job, with some branding thrown in for good measure.

58 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:28:07 pm reply quote 0

re: #31 buzzsawmonkey

Ha!

59 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:28:07 pm reply quote 2

re: #50 NoSpam

WTF are you basing your opinion that this kid did this to himself?

Quit blaming the victim!

60 taxfreekiller  6/22/08 6:28:08 pm reply quote 0

I, Know, I know, ask me Charles , ask me I know how the kid got the mark......!

61 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:28:22 pm reply quote 0

re: #41 lawhawk

Unions protect the incompetents, but teachers unions are especially protective of the incompetent or even hazardous to the health of the charges they're supposed to keep.

In NYC, there's a building where teachers who are awaiting disciplinary hearings get to spend their days - getting paid not to teach.

Don't for a single second think that there aren't buildings like that in every major city around the country. I knew of a similar place when I was in high school in Jacksonville, Florida.

62 taxfreekiller  6/22/08 6:28:26 pm reply quote 0

just ask

63 tronman  6/22/08 6:28:40 pm reply quote 0

Ya know, I don't agree with what this guy was doing. However, I don't see this huge uproar by school boards and parents when other schools are cowtowing to islamic "needs" by providing segregated classes and special prayer time for muslim students. Just an observation.

64 godfrey  6/22/08 6:28:45 pm reply quote 0

re: #52 MarkX

I don't have a dog in that fight

Because it evolved from a lone wolf?

65 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:28:46 pm reply quote 0

re: #50 NoSpam

Of course not. But dishonesty doesn't help anybody.

I'm sorry but, I don't track.

66 Dar ul Harb  6/22/08 6:29:05 pm reply quote 0

re: #36 Alouette

South Park is a little too edgy for LGF, sometimes.

67 nyc redneck  6/22/08 6:29:33 pm reply quote 0

why is it so difficult to get rid of an incompetent teacher?
that just shows how bad the system is. how powerful the teacher's union is and how that stagnates the goal of teaching our children.
mr. freshwater is stagnant and needs to go.

68 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:30:47 pm reply quote 0

re: #55 HelloDare

Yes. A relative, I'm ashamed to say.

Time for some Tough Love?

69 jaunte  6/22/08 6:31:06 pm reply quote 0

re: #59 Sharmuta

From the link:

"The organization that investigated Mr. Freshwater was HR on Call, a human resources company. It took all of May and most of June to pour over the records, interview people, and otherwise research the matter. Yesterday, the Company released it’s report. Among the findings:

•Mr. Freshwater did burn a cross onto the complaining family’s child’s arm using an electrostatic device not designed for that purpose. While there did not appear to be any intent by Mr. Freshwater to cause injury to any student, he was not using the device for its intended purpose. Contrary to Mr. Freshwater’s statement he simply made an “X” not a “cross,” all of the students described the marking as a “cross” and the pictures provided depict a “cross.”

Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

71 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:31:35 pm reply quote 3

re: #39 Killgore Trout

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

Yes- and it's pretty disgusting to see.

72 Cartman  6/22/08 6:31:40 pm reply quote 0

re: #26 HelloDare

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

If you went to a local mall around here, you would think that's where you were.

73 David Simon  6/22/08 6:31:44 pm reply quote 8

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

74 gunjam  6/22/08 6:31:51 pm reply quote -12
His colleagues over at the high school, for instance, claim his teaching of evolution is so flawed they are forced to re-teach the subject to his students when they get into high school.

With such fetching concerns for "doctrinal purity," these teachers of evolutionary THEORY sound like purveyors of a secular catechism.

Plenty of teachers in the public schools today fail properly to impart knowledge of their subject matter to their students, but I don't recall their individual didactic failures' ever having been publicized in the national media.

That's because, unlike math and English, evolutionary THEORY is, at root,

religious

.

The implication here is that folks who are convinced of the truth of evolutionary THEORY seem to be insisting on the excommunication -- the PURGING, if you will -- of teachers who do not subscribe "from their hearts" to the prevailing "orthodoxy."

(Shades of the medieval Roman Catholic authorities who had Galileo imprisoned, perhaps? Or, better: The rise of a militant insistence on the enforcement of a secular evolutionary shari'a?)

Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

75 Killgore Trout  6/22/08 6:32:12 pm reply quote 0

re: #66 Dar ul Harb

South Park Evolution
I've had creationists post this to me on LGF thinking that they're mocking evolution.

76 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:32:41 pm reply quote 0

re: #39 Killgore Trout

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

Not for long.

77 Dar ul Harb  6/22/08 6:32:54 pm reply quote 0

re: #69 jaunte

Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

He was trying to develop an alternative to waterboarding?

78 darren  6/22/08 6:33:09 pm reply quote 0

I agree with the poster in that there probably are a lot of guys out there. I grew up in a tiny town where my government school came under fire because they were leading prayers and were bringing in pastors for holiday assemblies. Somebody complained -- my mother :) -- and eventually the school had to remove all aspects of religion.

There was one science teacher who disagreed with not being able to teach "alternative theories" was to just not teach evolution all-together. Since it was a small town where everybody either didn't care or they agreed with him, he got away with it.

79 Attaboid  6/22/08 6:33:38 pm reply quote 0

Two orange barrels and a window pain[sic]. Call me next week.

80 Killgore Trout  6/22/08 6:33:51 pm reply quote 2

re: #74 gunjam

Dude, google scientific theory and refresh what you should have learned in 6th grade.

81 taxfreekiller  6/22/08 6:34:31 pm reply quote 2

When I was a little boy,

I prayed for the strength


I stood by the window until Santa Claus came

I looked for love
I prayed for a call

I thought freedom was a 68 shelby

I thought a movie star with wind in her hair would love me

Then I looked and no one was there in the car

I say I don't need anything

but ms tfk to love me day and night

who made it all pales when she comes into my sight

who cares when, the praying is needed and no one cares

Was a little thing like a prayer that got me out of the hell

and into this woman's arms,,, not ID would be my guess

fate, not fate, it lets you down way to fast, ask any good
poker player..

just keep on loving and pray

82 MJ  6/22/08 6:34:31 pm reply quote 5

From a fax from an attorney representing anonymous plaintiffs. The fax read in part:


We are religious people, but we were offended when Mr. Freshwater burned a cross onto the arm of our child. This was done in science class in December 2007, where an electric shock machine was used to burn our child. The burn was severe enough that our child awoke that night with severe pain, and the cross remained there for several weeks. ... We have tried to keep this a private matter and hesitate to tell the whole story to the media for fear that we will be retaliated against.

"We are Christians who practice our faith where it belongs, at church and in our home and, most importantly, outside the public classroom, where the law requires a separation of church and state".

These folks get it. Too bad not everyone understands the role of public education.

83 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:34:34 pm reply quote 0

re: #70 Alouette

Dilbert debates evolution

Thanks. That cute albino talking goiter changed my mind. I no longer believe in evolution.

84 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:34:39 pm reply quote 0

re: #73 David Simon

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

I agree to a point.

I want the schools to teach some tolerance.

85 Dar ul Harb  6/22/08 6:35:23 pm reply quote 0

re: #75 Killgore Trout

South Park Evolution
I've had creationists post this to me on LGF thinking that they're mocking evolution.

Aren't they mocking transgendered-American schoolteachers?

86 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:35:54 pm reply quote -3

re: #53 Sharmuta

I suggest you read the link before you blame the victim.

I have read it, along with other material on the same story and I still find it suspicious.

1) I've been zapped with devices similar to what the teacher allegedly used and I've not been burned like that.

2) It doesn't look like a cross to me, it looks more like a freckled kid with a line down his arm that looks more to be the product of a burn from a heat source (like a soldering iron or hot wire, which I've also burned myself with.)

3) Kids will do all kinds of stupid things to themselves and then blame somebody else for it when their parents find out. I knew kids who ate chalk, stuck pins to their bare skin, shocked themselves with homemade tazers, let their friends drag them behind cars etc etc.

If somebody BURNED MY KID I would be all over that sonuvabitch in a heartbeat. I'm in no way trying to condone this teacher's actions but I am suspicious of this particular count against him. It's also possible that the teacher used the device and the kid later 'embellished' it in some other way.

87 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:36:07 pm reply quote 0

re: #73 David Simon

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

Also, not every parent is a loving parent.

What about the children of those assholes?

88 MarkX  6/22/08 6:36:42 pm reply quote 0

re: #64 godfrey

Because it evolved from a lone wolf?

Hey, leave my dog out of this.

He's a good boy and I know for a fact he evolved from humans.

90 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:37:01 pm reply quote -1

re: #59 Sharmuta

WTF are you basing your opinion that this kid did this to himself?

Quit blaming the victim!

Why am I not entitled to my opinion?

91 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:37:24 pm reply quote 1

re: #86 NoSpam

So- you're still going to suspect the victim. Lovely.

92 BignJames  6/22/08 6:38:03 pm reply quote 0

re: #84 MandyManners

I agree to a point.

I want the schools to teach some tolerance.

But they do.....you'd damn well better tolerate gays and jihadis...or else!

93 DeathtotheSwiss  6/22/08 6:38:34 pm reply quote 2

re: #74 gunjam

.Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

ICK! ICK I say!

Just find the arguments you like to use the most when fighting evolution and defending intelligent design and read the responses here.
[Link: www.talkorigins.org...]

And if you're going to support John Freshwater, then I suppose you'll support the Muslims who murder non-Muslims, after all they have religion on their side too! And are you finally going to make a stand against those of us idiots who believe that Earth isn't the center of the universe or even our own solar system? I mean, after all, the Bible states several times how the Sun rotates around the Earth...or is THAT too literal for you?

94 chicagodudewhotrades  6/22/08 6:38:40 pm reply quote 0

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

95 wolfie  6/22/08 6:39:02 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 BignJames

I barely consider Va. the South.

I do.
The Occupied Zone around DC excepted, of course.

96 NoSpam  6/22/08 6:39:25 pm reply quote 0

re: #75 Killgore Trout

97 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:39:43 pm reply quote 2

re: #90 NoSpam

Because if you read the report- it sounds like there were witnesses. The other children described a cross. Why would a bunch of kids- some admitting they like this teacher- all lie about where the victim obtained this mark?

98 jaunte  6/22/08 6:39:46 pm reply quote 0

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

My wife and I have homeschooled all four of ours.

99 ploome hineni  6/22/08 6:40:02 pm reply quote 0

he may need a shrink and medication

100 gunjam  6/22/08 6:40:18 pm reply quote -8

re: #80 Killgore Trout

re: #74 gunjam

Dude, google scientific theory and refresh what you should have learned in 6th grade.

Uh-huh. Seems I recall something about "predictable, repeatable" as hallmarks of true science.

Neither of those are true of your beloved theory of origins.

Nor do I claim they are true of ID or creationism.

Acceptance of either theory is at root: FAITH-based.

I truly get a laugh out of your faux air of intellectual superiority.

Sorry: Still not buying the evolutionary mess of pottage. ;-)

101 Alouette  6/22/08 6:40:26 pm reply quote 0

re: #83 HelloDare

Thanks. That cute albino talking goiter changed my mind. I no longer believe in evolution.

It's a frickin CARTOON!

102 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:41:55 pm reply quote 0
103 opnion  6/22/08 6:42:23 pm reply quote 2

Sounds like this teacher really has issues.
The difference is that it is not some leftist, doing the idoctrination, which is more usual.
No matter who is doing this kind of stuff, it is wrong.

105 HelloDare  6/22/08 6:42:53 pm reply quote 0

re: #101 Alouette

It's a frickin CARTOON!

I'm only KIDDING!

106 DistantThunder  6/22/08 6:43:08 pm reply quote 0

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

I home school. Reason: the screaming teacher was making my 12 year old son sick. He was getting A's but she was still taking out her aggression and hostility on the whole class. Said he couldn't take it any more. It's like those learned helplessness experiments where they shock the dogs who can't get away. After awhile the dogs become depressed and stop trying.

So we've been using a variety of materials. But I just discovered that my alma mater, BYU, has online classes for middle school students. They will give a whole semester of material, requiring several tests, and then the last test is proctored (supervised at a designated testing area.) It's $120/class in 7 subjects.

107 Sharmuta  6/22/08 6:43:24 pm reply quote 0

re: #69 jaunte

From the link:


Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

I'm sure there will be more to come out about this case- only freshwater could tell us why he did this.

108 reine.de.tout  6/22/08 6:43:41 pm reply quote 7

re: #74 gunjam

.
With such fetching concerns for "doctrinal purity," these teachers of evolutionary THEORY sound like purveyors of a secular catechism.

Plenty of teachers in the public schools today fail properly to impart knowledge of their subject matter to their students, but I don't recall their individual didactic failures' ever having been publicized in the national media.

The implication here is that folks who are convinced of the truth of evolutionary THEORY seem to be insisting on the excommunication -- the PURGING, if you will -- of teachers who do not subscribe "from their hearts" to the prevailing "orthodoxy."

(Shades of the medieval Roman Catholic authorities who had Galileo imprisoned, perhaps? Or, better: The rise of a militant insistence on the enforcement of a secular evolutionary shari'a?)

Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

I think you have confused religion with science.

Parents and religious institutions are responsible for teaching faith and religion to their children, not schools and not teachers who may hold different faith beliefs than their students.

The thought that some school board or Dept of Education hack who has the authority to approve school curricula may end up approving a "faith"-based education that is different from your own - well, doesn't that frighten you at all?

Religion and religious belief belongs at church or in the home, not in school. This science teacher wasn't merely failing his students by failing to properly teach them science, he was indoctrinating them whatever faith beliefs he holds. I can't imagine why anyone would be for that.

109 MandyManners  6/22/08 6:44:18 pm reply quote 0

re: #92 BignJames

But they do.....you'd damn well better tolerate gays and jihadis...or else!

Oh, stop with the hyperbole for a moment! Please.

Not every school system demads this.

Maybe it is time for parents whose kids are in such systems look to states where this is not happening.

110 Killian Bundy  6/22/08 6:44:19 pm reply quote 0

Anyone else watching When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions on the Discovery channel?

Challenger crew, "alive until they hit the water".

/fortunately, presumed unconscious well before that

111 BignJames  6/22/08 6:44:40 pm reply quote 0

re: #102 MandyManners

112 DistantThunder  6/22/08 6:45:16 pm reply quote 0

re: #110 Killian Bundy

Anyone else watching When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions on the Discovery channel?

Challenger crew, "alive until they hit the water".

/fortunately, presumed unconscious well before that

Why would they have been unconscious?