Freshwater is getting stale.

This guy is someone we need to denounce. Someone this crazy needs to be thorn under the bus, ASAP.

The guy sounds like an asshole

Here's the device used to burn the student: "Electro-technic Model BD 10-A."
[Link: www.electrotechnicproduct.com...]

About all I can say right now is that I am very happy that this did not take place in the South...especially in Tennessee.

Please, no mention of FGM in this thread.

John Freshwater has taught at Mount Vernon Middle School for 21 years. For at least the past 11 years, he has been the subject of numerous complaints lodged against him by his fellow teachers, his students, and their parents.

Got to admit, those teachers have a hell of a union.

Impossible to fire one.

I just am in awe of this whole situation. As someone who actually agrees that Christianity is under attack in America due to a misguided commitment to multi-culturalism, I don't see this as the case here. This moron is not the target of discrimination.

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

re: #7 MandyManners

About all I can say right now is that I am very happy that this did not take place in the South...especially in Tennessee.

To a leftist from CA or NY, Ohio is considered the South.

re: #8 EC Marm

Please, no mention of FGM in this thread.

Thank you!

re: #9 MarkX

Got to admit, those teachers have a hell of a union.

Impossible to fire one.

Gotta love a system that will protect teachers no matter how incompetent, derranged or idiotic they might be.

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

No, but it is still intolerable conduct.

re: #12 HelloDare

To a leftist from CA or NY, Ohio is considered the South.

Ignorant pukes.

What gets me about this story is that they're running this guy into the ground while teachers with liberal agendas get a free ticket to brainwash students.

Don't get me wrong, I think this teacher is a jerk and should get fired (though I do suspect embellishment on the cross-burning story as I've played with those guns before and have never heard of one leaving a mark) But I believe in equal treatment for douchebaggery in all its forms, especially when it comes to the education of our kids. Case in point: Did Mr. "Jesus Glasses" out in California get fired?

re: #15 MarkX

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

Yes. Today.

re: #16 The Other Les

No, but it is still intolerable conduct.

So is picking one's nose in public.

re: #15 MarkX

I've been out of the loop for the last few days. Did someone really say that here?

don't go there, check the previous thread on the topic......

Zealots are dangerous....no matter their religion or ideaology.IMO

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

re: #17 MandyManners

Ignorant pukes.

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

re: #19 NoSpam

I agree that any teacher, in the day of the illiterate high-school graduate, who focuses on indoctrination instead of education should be fired. Public education is broken and broken on a grand scale at that.

re: #11 MandyManners

And, please. No one make the claim that this superficial burn on a teen boy's arm is the same as ripping out the clitoris from a little girl.

Please.

The other stuff about this teacher is true is true, but I suspect that the kid did it to himself. (or it was done to him by a friend)--which is also a good explanation as to why the kid's parents waited so long to come forward with it.

How can America's children go into the future and compete with the hard-working graduates of the rest of the world if their teachers are forcing the pablum of religious dogma down their throats, rather than real science.

In every study done in the past decade that I can recall, US students have performed abysmally compared to others, almost never in the top 10 in basic skills and knowledge, and sometimes far worse. Excuses are always made, but they are just that.

Right now it is US Universities keep us in the science game, as they are well funded and very deep in talent based on recruitment from all over the world, but how long will that continue for if the raw material is being destroyed.

With the exception of the science experiment, John Freshwater is teaching the beliefs and values that the majority of people in this community agree with

Except that's NOT HIS JOB!

His job was to teach science, not religious beliefs.

re: #14 DeathtotheSwiss

Gotta love a system that will protect teachers no matter how incompetent, derranged or idiotic they might be.

Right.

This actually reminds me of Big Chief Churchill of Colorado.

Regardless of how incompetent, it is impossible to get rid of teachers/professors in the U.S.

Error report?

Now listening: Symphony No.0 in D minor

P.S. Evolution thread!

re: #24 NonNativeTexan

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

I'm a little bit confused about that.

GARRISON: Now I, for one, think evolution is a bunch of BULLCRAP. But I've been told I have to teach it anyway. It was thought up by Charles Darwin and it goes something like this:

[goes up to a large poster of evolution and begins pointing things out with her pointer.]

In the beginning we were all fish. Okay? Swimming around in the water. And then one day a couple of fish had a retard baby, and the retard baby was different, so it got to live. So Retard Fish goes on to make more retard babies, and then one day, a retard baby fish crawled out of the ocean with its

[waves his left hand limply]

mutant fish hands... and it had buttsex with a squirrel or something and made this.

[points to a rodent]

retard frog squirrel, and then that had a retard baby which was a... monkey fish-frog... And then this monkey fish-frog had buttsex with that monkey, and... that monkey had a mutant retard baby that screwed another monkey and... that made you!

[faces the class. A new girl is seated in the front row, looking around]

So there you go! You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys havin' buttsex with a fish-squirrel! Congratulations!

CARTMAN: [hopping out of his chair and running out] HEHHH! I can't take it anymore! HAAAAAH!

re: #17 MandyManners

I barely consider Va. the South.

re: #26 HelloDare

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

For real?!

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

Mr. Daubenmire is a close friend of Mr. Freshwater and has called the accusations against him a “witch hunt”.

Oh, the irony of a fundamentalist calling it a "witch hunt".

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

It's nice to know the teachers' union protects incompetents of all backgrounds.

Unions protect the incompetents, but teachers unions are especially protective of the incompetent or even hazardous to the health of the charges they're supposed to keep.

In NYC, there's a building where teachers who are awaiting disciplinary hearings get to spend their days - getting paid not to teach.

re: #28 NoSpam

The other stuff about this teacher is true is true, but I suspect that the kid did it to himself. (or it was done to him by a friend)--which is also a good explanation as to why the kid's parents waited so long to come forward with it.

As mama winger posted in the earlier thread, kids that age are into all kinds of shit.

But, that does not excuse the teacher's actions.

Bruckner, cool.

In what sense is this Mr. Freshwater a "teacher" if his colleagues have to re-teach his students?

re: #27 DeathtotheSwiss

It's sad when your education system becomes a big bag of epic fail...

Fortunately, the worst I got was a teacher in middle school who was a died-in-the-wool 60's radical communist stereotype. XD But she wasn't very good at it.

re: #37 BignJames

I barely consider Va. the South.

*whack*

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Now listening: Symphony No.0 in D minor

I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

re: #24 NonNativeTexan

He should not teach creationism in science class.
He should have removed all the religious material from his classroom
as instructed. He should be brought up on charges for burning
the student. But it's against the rules to pray at a
Fellowship of Christian Athlete's meeting? I don't get that.

The idea of multi-culturalism has made it's goal the destruction of the American culture. I'm agnostic mind you, but I'm not anti-religion, and it is the fact that the majority of white Americans are Christian that Christianity is under attack. The idea is of course that white Christians are evil and their beliefs should not only be ignored but despised. This case of course, has nothing to do with the actual issue.

I've dealt with much of this multi-cultural nonsense myself. When talking about (earlier mentioned on this very thread) the female castration going on in Africa I heard the argument that, "It's their culture, you can't judge them for it."

If it weren't for my lack of faith I'd have called my anger "righteous".

re: #42 MandyManners

But, that does not excuse the teacher's actions.

Of course not. But dishonesty doesn't help anybody.

Teenage boy, you got to wonder. Maybe the dots were the preliminary outline for this sword tattoo. (strong language warning)

re: #22 2by2

don't go there, check the previous thread on the topic......

No, thanks, I won't go there. I try to stay out of the ID/Evo debates.

They usually go 1,000+ post, everyone yells, and everyone gets pissed off.

I don't have a dog in that fight.

re: #28 NoSpam

I suggest you read the link before you blame the victim.

re: #47 EC Marm

I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

It's only once you start getting into the imaginary #'s that the music starts to sound a little strange...I mean, it's kind of hard to play notes that don't exist on any standard plane.

re: #38 MandyManners

For real?!

Yes. A relative, I'm ashamed to say.

re: #47 EC Marm

I thought it was only computer programmers that started counting from zero. Musicians, too?

Maybe they thought they had the whole opus numbering worked out, and another symphony turned up?

re: #30 Sharmuta

Except that's NOT HIS JOB!

His job was to teach science, not religious beliefs.

apparently he did a piss poor job, with some branding thrown in for good measure.

re: #31 buzzsawmonkey

Ha!

re: #50 NoSpam

WTF are you basing your opinion that this kid did this to himself?

Quit blaming the victim!

re: #41 lawhawk

Unions protect the incompetents, but teachers unions are especially protective of the incompetent or even hazardous to the health of the charges they're supposed to keep.

In NYC, there's a building where teachers who are awaiting disciplinary hearings get to spend their days - getting paid not to teach.

Don't for a single second think that there aren't buildings like that in every major city around the country. I knew of a similar place when I was in high school in Jacksonville, Florida.

Ya know, I don't agree with what this guy was doing. However, I don't see this huge uproar by school boards and parents when other schools are cowtowing to islamic "needs" by providing segregated classes and special prayer time for muslim students. Just an observation.

re: #52 MarkX

I don't have a dog in that fight

Because it evolved from a lone wolf?

re: #50 NoSpam

Of course not. But dishonesty doesn't help anybody.

I'm sorry but, I don't track.

re: #36 Alouette

South Park is a little too edgy for LGF, sometimes.

why is it so difficult to get rid of an incompetent teacher?
that just shows how bad the system is. how powerful the teacher's union is and how that stagnates the goal of teaching our children.
mr. freshwater is stagnant and needs to go.

re: #55 HelloDare

Yes. A relative, I'm ashamed to say.

Time for some Tough Love?

re: #59 Sharmuta

From the link:

"The organization that investigated Mr. Freshwater was HR on Call, a human resources company. It took all of May and most of June to pour over the records, interview people, and otherwise research the matter. Yesterday, the Company released it’s report. Among the findings:

•Mr. Freshwater did burn a cross onto the complaining family’s child’s arm using an electrostatic device not designed for that purpose. While there did not appear to be any intent by Mr. Freshwater to cause injury to any student, he was not using the device for its intended purpose. Contrary to Mr. Freshwater’s statement he simply made an “X” not a “cross,” all of the students described the marking as a “cross” and the pictures provided depict a “cross.”

Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

Dilbert debates evolution

re: #39 Killgore Trout

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

Yes- and it's pretty disgusting to see.

re: #26 HelloDare

Actually, I know somebody who referred to Ohio as being in the Middle East.

If you went to a local mall around here, you would think that's where you were.

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

His colleagues over at the high school, for instance, claim his teaching of evolution is so flawed they are forced to re-teach the subject to his students when they get into high school.

With such fetching concerns for "doctrinal purity," these teachers of evolutionary THEORY sound like purveyors of a secular catechism.

Plenty of teachers in the public schools today fail properly to impart knowledge of their subject matter to their students, but I don't recall their individual didactic failures' ever having been publicized in the national media.

That's because, unlike math and English, evolutionary THEORY is, at root,

religious

.

The implication here is that folks who are convinced of the truth of evolutionary THEORY seem to be insisting on the excommunication -- the PURGING, if you will -- of teachers who do not subscribe "from their hearts" to the prevailing "orthodoxy."

(Shades of the medieval Roman Catholic authorities who had Galileo imprisoned, perhaps? Or, better: The rise of a militant insistence on the enforcement of a secular evolutionary shari'a?)

Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

re: #66 Dar ul Harb

South Park Evolution
I've had creationists post this to me on LGF thinking that they're mocking evolution.

re: #39 Killgore Trout

He's gaining defenders/obfuscators among lizards.

Not for long.

re: #69 jaunte

Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

He was trying to develop an alternative to waterboarding?

I agree with the poster in that there probably are a lot of guys out there. I grew up in a tiny town where my government school came under fire because they were leading prayers and were bringing in pastors for holiday assemblies. Somebody complained -- my mother :) -- and eventually the school had to remove all aspects of religion.

There was one science teacher who disagreed with not being able to teach "alternative theories" was to just not teach evolution all-together. Since it was a small town where everybody either didn't care or they agreed with him, he got away with it.

Two orange barrels and a window pain[sic]. Call me next week.

re: #74 gunjam

Dude, google scientific theory and refresh what you should have learned in 6th grade.

From a fax from an attorney representing anonymous plaintiffs. The fax read in part:

We are religious people, but we were offended when Mr. Freshwater burned a cross onto the arm of our child. This was done in science class in December 2007, where an electric shock machine was used to burn our child. The burn was severe enough that our child awoke that night with severe pain, and the cross remained there for several weeks. ... We have tried to keep this a private matter and hesitate to tell the whole story to the media for fear that we will be retaliated against.

"We are Christians who practice our faith where it belongs, at church and in our home and, most importantly, outside the public classroom, where the law requires a separation of church and state".

These folks get it. Too bad not everyone understands the role of public education.

re: #70 Alouette

Dilbert debates evolution

Thanks. That cute albino talking goiter changed my mind. I no longer believe in evolution.

re: #73 David Simon

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

I agree to a point.

I want the schools to teach some tolerance.

re: #75 Killgore Trout

South Park Evolution
I've had creationists post this to me on LGF thinking that they're mocking evolution.

Aren't they mocking transgendered-American schoolteachers?

re: #53 Sharmuta

I suggest you read the link before you blame the victim.

I have read it, along with other material on the same story and I still find it suspicious.

1) I've been zapped with devices similar to what the teacher allegedly used and I've not been burned like that.

2) It doesn't look like a cross to me, it looks more like a freckled kid with a line down his arm that looks more to be the product of a burn from a heat source (like a soldering iron or hot wire, which I've also burned myself with.)

3) Kids will do all kinds of stupid things to themselves and then blame somebody else for it when their parents find out. I knew kids who ate chalk, stuck pins to their bare skin, shocked themselves with homemade tazers, let their friends drag them behind cars etc etc.

If somebody BURNED MY KID I would be all over that sonuvabitch in a heartbeat. I'm in no way trying to condone this teacher's actions but I am suspicious of this particular count against him. It's also possible that the teacher used the device and the kid later 'embellished' it in some other way.

re: #73 David Simon

I have no problem with this teacher being fired. Schools are places of learning, not indoctrination centers.

Let's rid the schools of the Freshwaters, and the teachers who "teach" man-made global warming nonsense; and Joannie has two mommies; and "compassion" for the "homeless"; and whatever the fuck else that has nothing to do with math or science or physical education or history or language.

Loving parents are the ones who are responsible for teaching their kids about religion and social issues.

Also, not every parent is a loving parent.

What about the children of those assholes?

re: #64 godfrey

Because it evolved from a lone wolf?

Hey, leave my dog out of this.

He's a good boy and I know for a fact he evolved from humans.

Jazzy evolution cartoon

re: #59 Sharmuta

WTF are you basing your opinion that this kid did this to himself?

Quit blaming the victim!

Why am I not entitled to my opinion?

re: #86 NoSpam

So- you're still going to suspect the victim. Lovely.

re: #84 MandyManners

I agree to a point.

I want the schools to teach some tolerance.

But they do.....you'd damn well better tolerate gays and jihadis...or else!

re: #74 gunjam

.Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

ICK! ICK I say!

Just find the arguments you like to use the most when fighting evolution and defending intelligent design and read the responses here.
[Link: www.talkorigins.org...]

And if you're going to support John Freshwater, then I suppose you'll support the Muslims who murder non-Muslims, after all they have religion on their side too! And are you finally going to make a stand against those of us idiots who believe that Earth isn't the center of the universe or even our own solar system? I mean, after all, the Bible states several times how the Sun rotates around the Earth...or is THAT too literal for you?

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

re: #37 BignJames

I barely consider Va. the South.

I do.
The Occupied Zone around DC excepted, of course.

re: #75 Killgore Trout

South Park Evolution
I've had creationists post this to me on LGF thinking that they're mocking evolution.

I love that scene...

hee hee...fish squirrels...

re: #90 NoSpam

Because if you read the report- it sounds like there were witnesses. The other children described a cross. Why would a bunch of kids- some admitting they like this teacher- all lie about where the victim obtained this mark?

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

My wife and I have homeschooled all four of ours.

re: #80 Killgore Trout

re: #74 gunjam

Dude, google scientific theory and refresh what you should have learned in 6th grade.

Uh-huh. Seems I recall something about "predictable, repeatable" as hallmarks of true science.

Neither of those are true of your beloved theory of origins.

Nor do I claim they are true of ID or creationism.

Acceptance of either theory is at root: FAITH-based.

I truly get a laugh out of your faux air of intellectual superiority.

Sorry: Still not buying the evolutionary mess of pottage. ;-)

re: #83 HelloDare

Thanks. That cute albino talking goiter changed my mind. I no longer believe in evolution.

It's a frickin CARTOON!

When I was a little bitty baby.

Sounds like this teacher really has issues.
The difference is that it is not some leftist, doing the idoctrination, which is more usual.
No matter who is doing this kind of stuff, it is wrong.

Another 60-second cartoon "DISPROVES" evolution!

re: #101 Alouette

It's a frickin CARTOON!

I'm only KIDDING!

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

I home school. Reason: the screaming teacher was making my 12 year old son sick. He was getting A's but she was still taking out her aggression and hostility on the whole class. Said he couldn't take it any more. It's like those learned helplessness experiments where they shock the dogs who can't get away. After awhile the dogs become depressed and stop trying.

So we've been using a variety of materials. But I just discovered that my alma mater, BYU, has online classes for middle school students. They will give a whole semester of material, requiring several tests, and then the last test is proctored (supervised at a designated testing area.) It's $120/class in 7 subjects.

re: #69 jaunte

From the link:

Is there any more detail about why Freshwater did this?

I'm sure there will be more to come out about this case- only freshwater could tell us why he did this.

re: #74 gunjam

.
With such fetching concerns for "doctrinal purity," these teachers of evolutionary THEORY sound like purveyors of a secular catechism.

Plenty of teachers in the public schools today fail properly to impart knowledge of their subject matter to their students, but I don't recall their individual didactic failures' ever having been publicized in the national media.

The implication here is that folks who are convinced of the truth of evolutionary THEORY seem to be insisting on the excommunication -- the PURGING, if you will -- of teachers who do not subscribe "from their hearts" to the prevailing "orthodoxy."

(Shades of the medieval Roman Catholic authorities who had Galileo imprisoned, perhaps? Or, better: The rise of a militant insistence on the enforcement of a secular evolutionary shari'a?)

Count me in as a supporter of John Freshwater.

I think you have confused religion with science.

Parents and religious institutions are responsible for teaching faith and religion to their children, not schools and not teachers who may hold different faith beliefs than their students.

The thought that some school board or Dept of Education hack who has the authority to approve school curricula may end up approving a "faith"-based education that is different from your own - well, doesn't that frighten you at all?

Religion and religious belief belongs at church or in the home, not in school. This science teacher wasn't merely failing his students by failing to properly teach them science, he was indoctrinating them whatever faith beliefs he holds. I can't imagine why anyone would be for that.

re: #92 BignJames

But they do.....you'd damn well better tolerate gays and jihadis...or else!

Oh, stop with the hyperbole for a moment! Please.

Not every school system demads this.

Maybe it is time for parents whose kids are in such systems look to states where this is not happening.

Anyone else watching When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions on the Discovery channel?

Challenger crew, "alive until they hit the water".

/fortunately, presumed unconscious well before that

re: #102 MandyManners

When I was a little bitty baby.

A++ for you ;)

re: #110 Killian Bundy

Anyone else watching When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions on the Discovery channel?

Challenger crew, "alive until they hit the water".

/fortunately, presumed unconscious well before that

Why would they have been unconscious?

sorry opnion

re: #86 NoSpam

If somebody BURNED MY KID I would be all over that sonuvabitch in a heartbeat. I'm in no way trying to condone this teacher's actions but I am suspicious of this particular count against him. It's also possible that the teacher used the device and the kid later 'embellished' it in some other way.

consider the climate in that lovely town and then tell me again you would go and be "all over that sonuvabitch".
Apparently Freshwater is wielding some considerable power in that town, together with 'Coach David' - does intimidation ring a bell?

re: #48 taxfreekiller

Is that you VGER?

re: #74 gunjam

I find that you are of the same intellect of the poster who thinks that ripping a clitoris out by the roots is the same as a superficial burn to an arm.

re: #86 NoSpam

I have read it, along with other material on the same story and I still find it suspicious.

3) Kids will do all kinds of stupid things to themselves and then blame somebody else for it when their parents find out. I knew kids who ate chalk, stuck pins to their bare skin, shocked themselves with homemade tazers, let their friends drag them behind cars etc etc..

The cross-burning onto the arm wasn't just made up. There was an investigation:

The organization that investigated Mr. Freshwater was HR on Call, a human resources company. It took all of May and most of June to pour over the records, interview people, and otherwise research the matter. Yesterday, the Company released it’s report. Among the findings:

•Mr. Freshwater did burn a cross onto the complaining family’s child’s arm using an electrostatic device not designed for that purpose

re: #109 MandyManners

Oh, stop with the hyperbole for a moment! Please.

Not every school system demads this.

Maybe it is time for parents whose kids are in such systems look to states where this is not happening.

When i was interning at the middle school the counselor told me: Wait until health class where I tell them about blow jobs. This to 6th graders.

re: #84 MandyManners

I agree to a point.

I want the schools to teach some tolerance.

What can the schools teach that you can't?

re: #100 gunjam

Uh-huh. Seems I recall something about "predictable, repeatable" as hallmarks of true science.

Neither of those are true of your beloved theory of origins.

Nor do I claim they are true of ID or creationism.

Acceptance of either theory is at root: FAITH-based.

I truly get a laugh out of your faux air of intellectual superiority.

Sorry: Still not buying the evolutionary mess of pottage. ;-)

The observations made by scientists are repeatable. There are many "theories" we accept as fact thanks to the magic of observation. For instance, we know that the sun transmits heat without the benefit of a medium like air, water or solid matter. Heat reaches the Earth through the vacuum of space and thanks to the wonders of sight we see the correlation between light and temperature. You don't have to make your own sun to prove that heat comes from the sun, nor do you have to evolve your own species from scratch to observe the numerous examples of micro and macro evolution.

If you can accept something as silly as the idea that God would create a system that relied upon Darwinian principles like "survival of the fittest" while at the same time denying the consequences of said system, for the life of me I can't figure out why you can't just assume that God is smarter and wiser than anyone who ever had their hand on a quill and holy parchment and INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED THE SYSTEM OF EVOLUTION!

re: #91 Sharmuta

So- you're still going to suspect the victim. Lovely.

In this case, yes. I've offered up my evidence for all to see. Assault is a serious charge, especially when it comes to an authority figure assaulting a minor. I was also suspicious when the news of the Duke rape case came out. Were those boys guilty of piss-poor judgement? Yes. But rape? No. And now, even though they've been cleared of it that case will be a stigma that haunts them for the rest of their lives. I'm not saying the accusation is malicious, but I thing something is wrong.

If this kid was burned so bad why would his parents wait so long unless something else is going on with this whole mess that they're not mentioning? I do not know, nor have I met, a single parent on this planet that would not react immediately if their child was assaulted by a teacher in such a manner.

It also takes a lot more than a little gun like that to leave a burn like that, in my experience. That burn looks more like the time I stabbed myself with a soldering iron.

re: #109 MandyManners

I was being facetious...is there a tag for that?

re: #112 DistantThunder

Why would they have been unconscious?

/no cabin pressurization, freefall from 67,000 feet?

re: #116 MandyManners

I find that you are of the same intellect of the poster who thinks that ripping a clitoris out by the roots is the same as a superficial burn to an arm.

This has got to be a more interesting site than the KosKiddies. Notice no one mentions DU anymore.

Oblivion.

re: #100 gunjam
Acceptance of either theory is at root: FAITH-based.

Everything related to evolution is tied to reality. You can point out at the world and say, "Look at this... evolution." There's no faith involved.

re: #19 NoSpam

What gets me about this story is that they're running this guy into the ground while teachers with liberal agendas get a free ticket to brainwash students.

Don't get me wrong, I think this teacher is a jerk and should get fired (though I do suspect embellishment on the cross-burning story as I've played with those guns before and have never heard of one leaving a mark) But I believe in equal treatment for douchebaggery in all its forms, especially when it comes to the education of our kids. Case in point: Did Mr. "Jesus Glasses" out in California get fired?

Ward Churchill didn't get a pass here or many other places.

re: #108 reine.de.tout

I agree. It's interesting that Freshwater chose to burn the cross into the child, as if it were indelible. That smacks of desperation.

There's this idea out there that everything was better in the Norman Rockwell Christian Past, when all public schools began with compulsory prayer, and the center held because, dammit, the authorities held it there.

Seems to me the root impulse in Freshwater is panic: total fear that the power of the theistic message is being lost, that it needs to be burned into the youth by force or it will never "stick."

To me, this turn to force means that Freshwater actually lacks an intelligent faith. A faith that relies on force is a fearful, empty faith.

It burns him, so he acts out.

Just a theory.

re: #123 Killian Bundy

Wonder what kind of g-forces a blast like that would produce?

re: #97 Sharmuta

Because if you read the report- it sounds like there were witnesses. The other children described a cross. Why would a bunch of kids- some admitting they like this teacher- all lie about where the victim obtained this mark?

You'd be surprised at what kids are capable of. When I was in middle school one ignorant little troll and her bitch friends conspired to get me in trouble for assault by making up a story together (by all saying I attacked someone whom I had no contact with). Fortunately it didn't work.

Also, the picture of the injury doesn't look like a cross. I have no doubt that the teacher used the instrument on the kid, but did he actually hurt the kid is a different story. Again, call me a conspiracy nut, but I suspect something is being left out of these articles.

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

Nope. Dumber than a sack of hammers here.

From the Talkorigins website, since the damn thread has gone off-topic with the debate of evolution vs. intelligent design when it should be about STUPID TEACHERS GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER!

Whatever:

"The terms used in design theory are not defined. "Design", in design theory, has nothing to do with "design" as it is normally understood. Design is defined in terms of an agent purposely arranging something, but such a concept appears nowhere in the process of distinguishing design in the sense of "intelligent design." Dembski defined design in terms of what it is not (known regularity and chance), making intelligent design an argument from incredulity; he never said what design is.

A solution to a problem must address the parameters of the problem, or it is just irrelevant hand waving. Any theory about design must somehow address the agent and purpose, or it is not really about design. No intelligent design theorist has ever included agent or purpose in any attempt at a scientific theory of design, and some explicitly say they cannot be included (Dembski 2002, 313). Thus, even if intelligent design theory were able to prove design, it would mean practically nothing; it would certainly say nothing whatsoever about design in the usual sense.

Irreducible complexity also fails as science because it, too, is an argument from incredulity that has nothing to do with design.

Intelligent design is subjective. Even in Dembski's mathematically intricate formulation, the specification of his specified complexity can be determined after the fact, making "specification" a subjective concept. Dembski now talks of "apparent specified complexity" versus "actual specified complexity," of which only the latter indicates design. However, it is impossible to distinguish between the two in principle (Elsberry n.d.).

Intelligent design implies results that are contrary to common sense. Spider webs apparently meet the standards of specified complexity, which implies that spiders are intelligent. One could instead claim that the complexity was designed into the spider and its abilities. But if that claim is made, one might just as well claim that the spider's designer was not intelligent but was intelligently designed, or maybe it was the spider's designer's designer that was intelligent. Thus, either spiders are intelligent, or intelligent design theory reduces to a weak Deism where all design might have entered into the universe only once at the beginning, or terms like "specified complexity" have no useful definition.

The intelligent design movement is not intended to be about science. Phillip Johnson, who spearheaded and led the movement, said in so many words that it is about religion and philosophy, not science (Belz 1996). "

re: #110 Killian Bundy

When autopsy's were performed it was learned the crew had drowned. The explosion knocked them all unconscious but they were all alive when the crew compartment fell from the sky and hit the ocean.

re: #113 mama winger

sorry opnion

Thank you. Can't figure out why the Sox look so bad.
Taking nothing away from, the Cubs but the Sox have got to act like they successfully located the ball park.

re: #128 BignJames

Wonder what kind of g-forces a blast like that would produce?

/the vehicle continued to climb for 18,000 feet

re: #133 opnion

Thank you. Can't figure out why the Sox look so bad.
Taking nothing away from, the Cubs but the Sox have got to act like they successfully located the ball park.

Maybe it's because Ozzie hates Wrigley.

re: #126 Thanos

Ward Churchill didn't get a pass here or many other places.

Unfortunately, in the grand picture, he is the exception and not the rule for bad teachers getting their comeuppance. Also, he still rakes in $$ from speaking engagements and similar things.

re: #118 DistantThunder

When i was interning at the middle school the counselor told me: Wait until health class where I tell them about blow jobs. This to 6th graders.

I'm talking about school systems in other states.

Now here's something I hope you really like - Rocky, the squirrel

Getting Older, Getting Better
Keep having great sex, or even better sex

by David Schnarch

An old joke asks, What's the best form of birth control in later adult life? The answer: nudity.

So goes the cultural stereotype of sex after, say, 45. What it hinges on, says David Schnarch, is sheer misunderstanding--"the piece-of-meat model of sexual intimacy" most people practice.

It equates physical contact, and anatomy, with sex. And it is undoubtedly related to sex-text claims that males reach their sexual prime in late adolescence while women reach theirs several years later.

But sex manuals don't tell what Schnarch has discovered in over 20 years as a sex therapist--we reach genital prime and sexual prime at vastly different ages. Most people don't reach their sexual prime until their 40s and 50s. "Sexual intensity is more a function of emotional maturation than of physiological responsiveness."

Great sex requires real intimacy--the process of being in touch with oneself in the presence of a partner. Older people have learned more about themselves, so they bring more self to the party.

"The later adult years are when the most important exploration of sexual potential occurs," Schnarch reports. Younger women struggle to balance displays of eroticism with fears of looking cheap. Younger men are "threatened by a self-motivated and sexually knowledgeable partner."

Read on.....

re: #121 NoSpam

The video in this link suggests it was more than one student.

re: #87 MandyManners

Also, not every parent is a loving parent.

What about the children of those assholes?

True. But we can't promulgate good parenting. We can only punish those who cross the line. And remove the incentive for those who would wield their children as meal tickets (i.e. get rid of welfare yesterday).

As for their progeny, we're the most generous country in the world ($300 billion per annum donated to various charities). There's no perfect solution, but let's do our best to remove government from the equation.

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

I do.

re: #115 Reno911

I get that! Funny!

re: #119 David Simon

What can the schools teach that you can't?

Well, I don't have 15 kids in my home.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

What the hell is wrong with teaching kids to be polite?

re: #135 mama winger

Maybe it's because Ozzie hates Wrigley.

Interesting. Some kind of weird payback by a scorned ballpark.
Steven King could do something with that.

re: #141 wolfie

I do.

I didn't. My kids threatened to run away from home if they had to be stuck with me all day and night. I might have run away myself.

Christian schools.

I cannot catch up.

I must be a must-tard.

re: #139 Sharmuta

The lawsuit also mentions "at least two eigth-grade students."

In December 2007, the complaint continues, Freshwater burned an easily identifiable cross into the arm of at least two eighth-grade students with an electric device manufactured by Electro-Technic Products Inc. The complaint states, “Mr. Freshwater knew that the electric device, model BD-10A, could cause harm if placed in contact with human skin. As the eighth-grade science teacher it is Mr. Freshwater’s duty to understand and follow the manufacturer’s advice regarding the proper use of science equipment.”

[Link: www.mountvernonnews.com...]

re: #132 chicagodudewhotrades

When autopsy's were performed it was learned the crew had drowned. The explosion knocked them all unconscious but they were all alive when the crew compartment fell from the sky and hit the ocean.

oh dear Lord, I hope they didn't regain consciousness as they were drowning.

re: #144 opnion

Interesting. Some kind of weird payback by a scorned ballpark.
Steven King could do something with that.

The Ghosts of Wrigley, featuring Jack Brickhouse and Harry Carey.

re: #139 Sharmuta

The video in this link suggests it was more than one student.

That's strange, because in every other report I've seen on this (from several different networks) they only refer to the one student, but my conspiracy-wrangling still stands. If he was burning these kids bad enough to cause pain, blistering, discoloration and temporary scarring, then why is it only being brought up just now, a long time after the fact.

Here's another video on John Freshwater also stating it was more than one student.

re: #150 NoSpam

That's strange, because in every other report I've seen on this (from several different networks) they only refer to the one student, but my conspiracy-wrangling still stands. If he was burning these kids bad enough to cause pain, blistering, discoloration and temporary scarring, then why is it only being brought up just now, a long time after the fact.

Are criminal charges being brought?

i'm tired of mr. freshwater.
i'm going to go watch a monster movie.
creature of the black lagoon.

re: #149 mama winger

The Ghosts of Wrigley, featuring Jack Brickhouse and Harry Carey.

Now that would be good. Afterward, Harry would wind up on Rush Street.

re: #154 opnion

Now that would be good. Afterward, Harry would wind up on Rush Street.

OMG - can you picture it?

giggle

re: #121 NoSpam

In this case, yes. I've offered up my evidence for all to see. Assault is a serious charge, especially when it comes to an authority figure assaulting a minor. I was also suspicious when the news of the Duke rape case came out. Were those boys guilty of piss-poor judgement? Yes. But rape? No. And now, even though they've been cleared of it that case will be a stigma that haunts them for the rest of their lives. I'm not saying the accusation is malicious, but I thing something is wrong.

If this kid was burned so bad why would his parents wait so long unless something else is going on with this whole mess that they're not mentioning? I do not know, nor have I met, a single parent on this planet that would not react immediately if their child was assaulted by a teacher in such a manner.

It also takes a lot more than a little gun like that to leave a burn like that, in my experience. That burn looks more like the time I stabbed myself with a soldering iron.

I have also seen kids with similar burns caused by rubbing an eraser on their skin.

I am NOT suggesting that this exonerates this teacher--he should be fired for, at the very least, insubordination and not following the approved curriculum. I also believe he did create the shape of a cross on the kid's arm. I'm just not convinced his actions were all there were.

re: #136 NoSpam

Unfortunately, in the grand picture, he is the exception and not the rule for bad teachers getting their comeuppance. Also, he still rakes in $$ from speaking engagements and similar things.

and you don't think this guy won't become a martyr to the kooks and do the same? Have you read much about Dauber? I can educate you.

re: #153 nyc redneck

i'm tired of mr. freshwater.
i'm going to go watch a monster movie.
creature of the black lagoon.

Me too. Only the game instead of the movie.

See you tomorrow guys.

Chin up, opnion. It's only June and the Sox are still in first place.

re: #150 NoSpam
again:
consider the climate in that lovely town and then tell me again you would go and be "all over that sonuvabitch".
Apparently Freshwater is wielding some considerable power in that town, together with 'Coach David' - does intimidation ring a bell?

re: #140 David Simon

True. But we can't promulgate good parenting. We can only punish those who cross the line. And remove the incentive for those who would wield their children as meal tickets (i.e. get rid of welfare yesterday).

As for their progeny, we're the most generous country in the world ($300 billion per annum donated to various charities). There's no perfect solution, but let's do our best to remove government from the equation.

Oh, David.

Welfare is not a guarantee for life.

The shit I've seen in the baseball league.... Amazing.

re: #155 mama winger

OMG - can you picture it?

giggle

Well sure, why not? In Chicago the dead can vote, why not go out for cocktails?

re: #159 mama winger

Me too. Only the game instead of the movie.

See you tomorrow guys.

Chin up, opnion. It's only June and the Sox are still in first place.

Thats my plan. Good night.

re: #94 chicagodudewhotrades

I agree with all the talk about firing incompetant teachers. Teachers should TEACH, nothing else. But I have a question for my fellow lizards who have kids. Do any of you homeschool? Just curious.

I home school. My career may be going down the drain in order to school my kids, but at least they are well-educated. Its a trade-off, sadly.

ID isn't an issue for us.

From the article at the link, we learn that a group called "Minutemen United" has come to this teacher's aid.

A spokesperson for that group is David Daubenmire, who said this:

. . . John Freshwater is teaching the beliefs and values that the majority of people in this community agree with.

Without realizing it, Mr. Daubenmire made the case for those wanting Mr. Freshwater out of the classroom. If what Mr. Freshwater is teaching is the beliefs of the majority in the community, what about those who do not agree with the beliefs of John Freshwater? Why should those parents be forced to put up with having their children taught John Freshwater's religion, rather than their own beliefs?

re: #147 jaunte

In December 2007, the complaint continues, Freshwater burned an easily identifiable cross into the arm of at least two eighth-grade students with an electric device manufactured by Electro-Technic Products Inc. The complaint states, “Mr. Freshwater knew that the electric device, model BD-10A, could cause harm if placed in contact with human skin. As the eighth-grade science teacher it is Mr. Freshwater’s duty to understand and follow the manufacturer’s advice regarding the proper use of science equipment.”

Thank you, jaunte.

re: #93 DeathtotheSwiss

And if you're going to support John Freshwater, then I suppose you'll support the Muslims who murder non-Muslims, after all they have religion on their side too!

Nonsense. On the contrary, the hysterical tone regarding the possibility of ID "heresies'" being taught represented by the posted article about Freshwater (or, for that matter, by the comments left by certain of the posters on this thread) is frighteningly reminiscent of Islamists insisting on their -- and ONLY their -- preferred point of view being taught.

What you fail to grasp is that this very fanatical insistence on the teaching of one and ONLY one UNPROVEN theory of origins as SCIENCE in our schools is RELIGIOUS in nature.

And, yes: I am an APOSTATE when it comes to evolutionary THEORY!

And are you finally going to make a stand against those of us idiots who believe that Earth isn't the center of the universe or even our own solar system? I mean, after all, the Bible states several times how the Sun rotates around the Earth...or is THAT too literal for you?

Wow! I love your faux biblical scholarship. Shall we not, at a minimum, extend to the biblical writers at least the same degree of latitude that we do operators of such "Christian" Web sites as www.weather.com, whence I just copied the following words:

Sunset: 8:37 PM

Sunrise: 6:35 AM

Sunset: 8:37 PM

?

re: #167 reine.de.tout

Without realizing it, Mr. Daubenmire made the case for those wanting Mr. Freshwater out of the classroom. If what Mr. Freshwater is teaching is the beliefs of the majority in the community, what about those who do not agree with the beliefs of John Freshwater? Why should those parents be forced to put up with having their children taught John Freshwater's religion, rather than their own beliefs?

That's just it, reine. The Constitution was designed to protect the minority!

re: #152 mama winger

Are criminal charges being brought?

I'm not 100% sure but it sounds more like the parents are suing over the presence of religious materials/ the teacher's pushing of his own beliefs rather than pressing charges for assault, which is what I'd be doing if somebody burned my kid like that. They even mention "defiance of school policy”

and

In the fax, the parents also said, “We are Christians who practice our faith where it belongs, at church and in our home and, most importantly, outside the public classroom, where the law requires a separation of church and state.”

They're more concerned with church and state than the fact that their kid has second degree burns?

re: #100 gunjam

Neither of those are true of your beloved theory of origins.

Wrong! You guys need new talking points. This has been debunked ad nauseum here. If you don't understand this now you never will. You are free to continue your dead end ideology, just don't expect to drag the rest of us into the dust bin of history with you.

re: #143 MandyManners

Well, I don't have 15 kids in my home.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

What the hell is wrong with teaching kids to be polite?

BWA HA HA!

I insist on good manners from my students. They MUST say "May I" and "please" before I'll give them permission to leave the room. I strongly encourage their use of "Ma'am" and lavish praise on them when they do use it (here in PA it's not the cultural norm it is in VA). They MUST remain seated until I dismiss them after the bell has rung. They may not chew gum in my presence (they'll even get rid of it if they're in another room I happen to walk into at another time of the day!)

A good example of speech, manners, and reasoning is the best lesson I can give.

re: #157 Thanos

and you don't think this guy won't become a martyr to the kooks and do the same? Have you read much about Dauber? I can educate you.

He probably will. I never said he wouldn't. I just think more lefties get a pass than 'conservative' wingnuts.

re: #29 june_july

The religious zealotry of a few Christian teachers is not one of the major reasons for students in the U.S.A being scholastically deficient compared to other countries. The N.E.A. with it's primary goal of protecting the products of the "Education and Liberal Arts" curricula spewed forth by the secular progressive bastions of tenured Marxists and other Western Civilization deconstructionists masquerading as "Higher Learning" is the root cause of the failure for a large number of students to learn how to think for themselves.
If a foreign country was found to be the source of a similar undermining of the educational system in the U.S.A. as that accomplished nationwide by the N.E.A., it would be cause for war. That so many students do manage to become educated to any degree is a testament to their parents and the values and guidance that they have given their children.

re: #156 goddessoftheclassroom

I have also seen kids with similar burns caused by rubbing an eraser on their skin.

I am NOT suggesting that this exonerates this teacher--he should be fired for, at the very least, insubordination and not following the approved curriculum. I also believe he did create the shape of a cross on the kid's arm. I'm just not convinced his actions were all there were.

I've taught at a huge state university and have seen many students with "temporary cuttings" and "temporary tats." In fact, it is a popular fad. I've seen them do it with erasers, Goddess, but usually they use more sophisticated instruments like a Dremel (I think). Seriously, they put some sort of little sandpaper on the end and "burn" their skin in a design. Crosses are very popular, particularly on one's calf. The scars, though, are not deep. I'm sure/hope they disappear after a few months or years.

Eigth grade peer pressure mode:
Can't imagine being the eighth grader who would wimp out and complain about a little burn when I could tough it out and prove I'm a man, like Mr. Freshwater.
/

re: #160 2by2

again:
consider the climate in that lovely town and then tell me again you would go and be "all over that sonuvabitch".
Apparently Freshwater is wielding some considerable power in that town, together with 'Coach David' - does intimidation ring a bell?

I'm not the sort to be 'intimidated.' I've dealt with enough bullies in my life to not really give two shakes about other people's opinions, and I have little respect for people who think in a herd. If someone assaulted my kid, charges would be brought.

re: #177 jcw46

New math...Just like New Coke, and we all know how that turned out.

re: #170 Sharmuta

That's just it, reine. The Constitution was designed to protect the minority!

Well, exactly, I hope I wasn't unclear.

NoSpam, did you vote for Ron Paul like Daubenmire did?

Just spun this off upstairs.

Put oil firm chiefs on trial, says NASA climate change scientist.

James Hansen, one of the world's leading climate scientists, will today call for the chief executives of large fossil fuel companies to be put on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature, accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming in the same way that tobacco companies blurred the links between smoking and cancer.

Hansen will use the symbolically charged 20th anniversary of his groundbreaking speech to the US Congress - in which he was among the first to sound the alarm over the reality of global warming - to argue that radical steps need to be taken immediately if the "perfect storm" of irreversible climate change is not to become inevitable.

Speaking before Congress again, he will accuse the chief executive officers of companies such as ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy of being fully aware of the disinformation about climate change they are spreading.

re: #182 reine.de.tout

Well, exactly, I hope I wasn't unclear.

Bottom line: science isn't a popularity contest! It doesn't have anything to do with majorities or minorities or beliefs--it has to do with FACTS.

re: #145 mama winger

I didn't. My kids threatened to run away from home if they had to be stuck with me all day and night. I might have run away myself.

Christian schools.

It's a challenge!
My oldest two are in a Catholic High School now, and the younger ones are 11 and 13. So I'm at an easy stage of the game now..................except for the damned relief map of the Indian sub-continent on the dining room table.....and a few too many things like that!

5-0........but they could still flub it 6-5

What if the kid is a vampire, and the teacher accidently touched him with a crucifix?...huh? What about that?

As a Christian, I don't see how what this teacher was doing is a good example for our Lord. Christ was interested in relationships, not debates on science. Mr. Freshwater had a job to do as a teacher. If he could not teach what his superiors directed him to teach, then he should have removed himself from the classroom and sought another profession. At least, he should have found another subject to teach.

side note:
I will most likely be in Mt. Vernon Ohio this week on business. Maybe I can get a little more detail on this story and share it with LGF. There is a strong Christian community there. Mt. Vernon Nazarene College is right next to the High School and Jr. High.

re: #180 NoSpam

good for you,
but maybe the parents of these kids aren't, and take into account that they essential believe the same than Freshwater, maybe they covered up for him in good faith, only to see that he continues to do his 'science experiments' on their kids.

Teachers entrusted to teach science are instead teaching creationism and intelligent design.

The horror, the horror! This is the SAME American school system that became the envy of the world because for a hundred years the Bible was part of basic curricula, and the Bible-based McGuffy Reader was the main text book for teaching reading. Look at our secular based schools now, anyone envy them?

Teaching your kid how to unroll a condom on a cucumber is far more likely than to ever see a Bible on a teacher's desk. I am surprised the Taliban secularists haven't had this guy roped to a tree and whipped. No defense of this guy really, but the faux outrage and outright hatred of any Christianity in the classroom is peculiar in a nation that would not even exist, except as another tyranny in the earth, if it wasn't for Christianity.

And if we are so concerned "science" be taught in the classroom, somebody dig up a transitory species fossil please. And why can you found an entire science on the bones of men like beings that would not fill the bed of a small pick-up truck? At least I can see the radition through all written human history of the events bespoke in the Bible. All the evolutionist have is a red-faced chourous shouting "evolution is a fact, evolution is a fact," whenever anything, or anyone does not accept the weak, and even non-existent science to prove such momentous claims.

At least in all the other "sciences" I can repeat in the lab, or have mathematical formula to test my hypothesis. Electro-chemical bonds care less if I am an agnostic, Muslim, Christian, or atheist, they work the same, the math is the same. Ask an evolutionist: where the hell is the MATH? Show me the math the elucidates species evolving from other species?

O and for the kid? They showed that cross on his arm on the news, I couldn't see it, but I guess it was there. O, the outcry we will hear when this kid goes and gets a full-sleeve tattoo, and body piercings. Right? Right? Or if in Boulder Colorado they bring in a panel that encourages kids to experiment with any and all types of sexual relationships...after all they were just reflecting the "values" of that community, the only one outraged was Bill Reilly.

re: #186 wolfie

it has to do with FACTS

Eventually. See post #184

ATTN: creationists...
Why Islam stinks
In about the 11th century Islam decided that imperical knowledge and the Greek philosophers were wrong because they excluded the Quran and the supernatural works of Allah in their teaching. They completely skipped the Enlightenment. Even today they will defend any Muslim simply because he's Muslim. They will always play the victim card. Why are Creationists so eager to repeat the mistakes of Islam? Christianity is in a tough spot in the Western world, this isn't the best time to be stupid.

re: #175 NoSpam

He probably will. I never said he wouldn't. I just think more lefties get a pass than 'conservative' wingnuts.

11 years there have been complaints against this man. 11 years! Seems to me he's been given a pass long enough.

Well, I learned something this evening. Never, ever bake Mahi. The fish evolved soley to be grilled or broiled. I won't make that mistake again. ;)

The sound of one man going to bed...
"G'night Erin. G'night Jason"!

re: #183 Thanos

NoSpam, did you vote for Ron Paul like Daubenmire did?

No. Har-har.

I wish there was anthing funny about this topic. Sadly, that's just not the case.

re: #189 2by2

good for you,
but maybe the parents of these kids aren't, and take into account that they essential believe the same than Freshwater, maybe they covered up for him in good faith, only to see that he continues to do his 'science experiments' on their kids.

Back - commercial

I think once a crime of assault has been committed on a child, it is out of the hands of the parents as to whether or not to press charges. The state has an interest in protecting that child. I don't think it would matter if the parents were reluctant or not . The state would be obligated to pursue it.

re: #173 goddessoftheclassroom

A good example of speech, manners, and reasoning is the best lesson I can give.

I love that choice of words. I was a terrible student until my senior year of high school. Along came a smart, poised, savvy teacher who I wanted to emulate. That's what turned me from a juvenile delinquent into...well, we'll just leave it at that.

re: #181 NoSpam

New math...Just like New Coke, and we all know how that turned out.

Interesting you bring up new math. I just found one of my father's old college textbooks entitled, "Theory of Math." Absolutely fascinating -- well-written and carefully documented.

Then I compared it to my son's calculus textbook. The calc book has bright colors. Pictures. Sidebars. Graphs. The goal of the calc book is to teach HOW to think about math, but not math itself. In contrast, the goal of my father's textbook was to present math as theory. The student was expected to think on his/her own.

re: #188 ratherdashing

Great! It would be interesting to know what ordinary folks there are saying......waitresses, motel clerks, cashiers, etc.

re: #195 Cartman

I'm getting ready to experiment with Rock fish on the BBQ tonight. I generally don't do fish over coals because it's so unpredictable. Wish me luck.

re: #177 jcw46

The religious zealotry of a few Christian teachers is not one of the major reasons for students in the U.S.A being scholastically deficient compared to other countries. The N.E.A. with it's primary goal of protecting the products of the "Education and Liberal Arts" curricula spewed forth by the secular progressive bastions of tenured Marxists and other Western Civilization deconstructionists masquerading as "Higher Learning" is the root cause of the failure for a large number of students to learn how to think for themselves.
If a foreign country was found to be the source of a similar undermining of the educational system in the U.S.A. as that accomplished nationwide by the N.E.A., it would be cause for war. That so many students do manage to become educated to any degree is a testament to their parents and the values and guidance that they have given their children.

Government consistently creates shortages, in this case, of qualified, competent, engaging, morally upright (not seducing their students, or posting nude pictures of themselves as strippers on myspace) teachers.

re: #184 HelloDare

Probability that what the Guardian says will happen, and what will really happen, is greater than 0. In this case, it will be the "court of public opinion" in which Hansen will try to convince.

It's not really the same thing as a teacher burning a teenager.

out again

sorry - shouldn't post and run :(

re: #201 mama winger

I would hope it does just that, this guy needs to do some time.

re: #194 Sharmuta

11 years there have been complaints against this man. 11 years! Seems to me he's been given a pass long enough.

I'n not quite getting why, because I an somewhat suspicious of ONE particular complaint, and have mentioned repeatedly in this thread that I think this teacher is a jerk who deserves to be fired, that I somehow think he should be exonerated of all charges?

Also, I just got accused of being a Paulbot. Nice...

re: #203 hermeneutics

The student was expected to think on his/her own.

My...what a novel idea.

This "teacher" would not have made news but for an assault on a student. His inability to teach students and prepare them for high school and beyond is criminal enough, but it took a premeditated assault on a student to get the administration to take action.

That's a sad state of affairs that is far too prevalent throughout the country. Only when things get so bad is action taken, and by then the damage is done and countless students have been screwed out of a proper learning environment.

re: #202 David Simon

I love that choice of words. I was a terrible student until my senior year of high school. Along came a smart, poised, savvy teacher who I wanted to emulate. That's what turned me from a juvenile delinquent into...well, we'll just leave it at that.

Now that's just amazing. i always wonder why all the persuasion over the years doesn't break through, and then one day, all the peices fall into place.

This is exactly the face of 'religion' that the 1st Amendment was intended to guard against.

And in fact, the very first sentence of the First Amendment.

Watch Out

re: #205 Killgore Trout

I'm getting ready to experiment with Rock fish on the BBQ tonight. I generally don't do fish over coals because it's so unpredictable. Wish me luck.

Man, that sounds good. Don't blow it!

re: #213 lawhawk

This "teacher" would not have made news but for an assault on a student. His inability to teach students and prepare them for high school and beyond is criminal enough, but it took a premeditated assault on a student to get the administration to take action.

That's a sad state of affairs that is far too prevalent throughout the country. Only when things get so bad is action taken, and by then the damage is done and countless students have been screwed out of a proper learning environment.

Excellent point!

re: #203 hermeneutics

Interesting you bring up new math. I just found one of my father's old college textbooks entitled, "Theory of Math." Absolutely fascinating -- well-written and carefully documented.

Then I compared it to my son's calculus textbook. The calc book has bright colors. Pictures. Sidebars. Graphs. The goal of the calc book is to teach HOW to think about math, but not math itself. In contrast, the goal of my father's textbook was to present math as theory. The student was expected to think on his/her own.

I had a mix of textbooks in college, and generally found the 'older' ones to be much more informative. My Diff Eq book was just abut worthless, while my structural mechanics book (which was a new edition of a text from ~1930's) was great.

re: #211 NoSpam

I'n not quite getting why, because I an somewhat suspicious of ONE particular complaint, and have mentioned repeatedly in this thread that I think this teacher is a jerk who deserves to be fired, that I somehow think he should be exonerated of all charges?

Also, I just got accused of being a Paulbot. Nice...

No you didn't, it was a question. Thanks for answering.

re: #169 gunjam

So what theory do you propose? Or are you saying that there is no theory that can explain the questions that evolution tries to answer without previously knowing information that has been passed down for a little over two thousand years? Dinosaurs are just God's little mysteries designed to mess with our heads? Carbon-dating is wrong because, after all, it goes against the idea that Adam and Eve existed as anything but the literal interpretation.

Here's a few points, not my own creation (ha) but agreed with nonetheless. My big thing is mainly that you can't interpret the Bible as literal and as complete fact unless you want to start stoning children for talking back to their parents.

* From the Annotated Bible for Skeptic's
The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite.
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters.
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes
God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all.
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

In verse 11, God "let the earth bring forth" the plants. Now he has the earth "bring forth" the animals as well. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe God created livings things through the process of evolution.
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

Isaiah, with a little help from God, makes the sun move backwards ten degrees. Now that's quite a trick. All at once, the earth stopped spinning and then reversed its direction of rotation. Or maybe the sun traveled around the earth in those days!
-[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

re: #198 really grumpy big dog Johnson

I have Cubs/sux intercity baseball on ESPN. Cubs 5- sux 1. That is putting a smile on my face, but I know what you mean

re: #214 DistantThunder

Now that's just amazing. i always wonder why all the persuasion over the years doesn't break through, and then one day, all the peices fall into place.

The pieces fall into place

because

of all the persuasion over the years.

If anyone is interested, some of my thoughts on intelligent design are here.

re: #212 Cartman

My...what a novel idea.

No kidding. And we wonder why kids don't reason well? If the ID opponents here and elsewhere pointed fingers in the right direction, they may be pointed at themselves. Scientists, mathmeticians and educators have dumbed down the curriculum and erroneously taught kids HOW to think.

This isn't a problem with religion encroaching on science -- rather, the problem is that science has retreated into religious-like teachings. Teach facts and the "problem" will go away.

I can remember three teachers of mine that stand out vividly. One was my fifth grade teacher. She scared the bejeebus out of me. She demanded a lot - a whole lot more than I ever thought possible. Made me sick. But one thing that she forced and impressed upon everyone was the need to read - and document our reading. Read for an hour every night.

I often got in trouble for reading in class on materials unrelated to class. But it got through. And I did well.

Then, I had a HS teacher for history who was a riot. And taking his classes got me interested not in medicine as I thought, but history, politics and law.

Finally, a college poli-sci professor, whose teaching and lecturing was impressive. He made the Federalist Papers come alive. He might have been leftist in his political outlook, but never took it into the classroom or onto the exams. I had several of his classes, including in grad school. Definitely one to remember.

I can remember the bad teachers too, but they were thankfully few and far between.

I hate flakes.

I was checking my email last night when a mail came in from a buddy I hadnt seen for a while saying we should meet this weekend. I see is on yahoo messenger, shoot him an answer, no response. I answer his email, asking what he had in mind, no reply. Finally got a hold of him, he had forgotten all about it and wanted me to drop everything to come hang out.

You ever have a friend where you ask yourself, "Why the hell is he my friend?"

re: #192 buzzsawmonkey

I notice you cannot argue content. Was the American system first established under Biblical guidance or not? Do you like what the education system has evolved into or not? Could you pass a high school test given at the turn of the century. Probably, since you apparently know it all. Now...go find a book that gives me the math for one species evolving into another...I think that is a fair demand is you want to claim evolution is "science." Just show me the starting parameters of a particular species then give me the math that shows them becoming anything else. This should be easy for someone that knows it so well. Not even a hard one, not even going to ask how symbiotic relationships could come about, or parasites, let alone a virus. Come on all the scientific experts here, you are ready to damn anyone that believes God was the creator, show us your proven science. Or is it more of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for evolutionary thought?

Now that Discovery institute's last stalking horse of intelligent design textbooks went down in flames with the Dover decision they have a new stalking horse. This time around it's "Exploring Evolution" and they are setting up for the battle in Louisiana.

This from the DI site:
[Link: exploreevolution.com...]

re: #211 NoSpam

Uh- so far it's been shown three times that there were "at least" two students. Read the link and you'll see there were more allegations made. What those allegations are might have to wait for trial.

re: #147 jaunte

The lawsuit also mentions "at least two eigth-grade students."

[Link: www.mountvernonnews.com...]

Why did they have a BD-10A in the class room anyway? Its for leak and pin hole detection in manufacturing.

re: #215 Ojoe

This is exactly the face of 'religion' that the 1st Amendment was intended to guard against.

And in fact, the very first sentence of the First Amendment.

Watch Out

Repectfully, Ojoe -- and you know I adore what you say here -- the non-establishment clause was intended to keep the national government from establishing religion. Subsequent jurisprudence was convoluted and merely confused original intent.

This is getting a little old, but let's try it again.

All those who believe in evolution, raise their hands.

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

As an ex-Catholic I'm pretty sure it was Isaiah, but I could be wrong. I'm not infallible.

gtg. Daughter here with staph infection on finger ... oh boy.

re: #230 Kepler Sings

Come on all the scientific experts here, you are ready to damn anyone that believes God was the creator, show us your proven science.

You are suffering from some sort of persecution syndrome.

re: #230 Kepler Sings

Are you a Biblical literalist?

re: #233 JeremyR

I wondered about that, and the only speculation I have right now is that it was a dumb "hey look at this thing, it'll burn you without touching your skin" kind of 'science demonstration.'

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

Well, I for one believe this man should be fired...

Though I am truly "raising n eyebrow" at those in the lizard army ready to spit vitriolic dogma of secularism in and about these discussions due to this man.

I'm not defending ID, but neither am I stating that this man is the perfect example of why ID is fake and therefore all ID believers need to be hung upside down and beaten with salmon until bla bla bla, rant rant rant...

I just love how the lizard army tries to eat its own every now and then...

Personally I still think Darwinism is a crock...and that he was trying to apply this F**ktard "theory" to elements of social engineering. If you doubt me feel free to read Darwin's "Descent of Man" and see if modern "science" was truly nothing more than science.

Or will I be a Lizard that needs to be taken down a few pegs, simply because I'm mostly staying out of this argument?

/ I guess then I'll be tossed into Dante's' first ring of hell...forever chasing a flag that I can never reach because I refused to take a side... Ah, who cares...there are still nut jobs out there baying for my blood. They just happen to be located in and around the ME.

It occurs to me, however, that we have here one instance of what’s going on in many hundreds — even thousands — of science classrooms across the country. Teachers entrusted to teach science are instead teaching creationism and intelligent design.

I agree that this is a problem, but I think the more widespread and profound problem in science classrooms is the indoctrination into the Church of Global Warming that is taking place in the vast majority of classrooms around the country. Sure, in some backwater schools this ID thing is a problem (and trust me, there are a lot of them in Southern Ohio), but I think it is a fraction of the "Al Gore" problem.

OT: why are these a-holes on Sunday Night Baseball schilling for Obama? I realize they are in Chicago, but this is just ridiculous.

re: #90 NoSpam

Why am I not entitled to my opinion?

Oh no, you are entitled to your opinions and/or beliefs. But you are not entitled to not have them challenged or questioned. This is not a class on self-esteem and validation, this is LGF. It's a tough room.

There must be a kind of victim magnet attached to these threads.

re: #203 hermeneutics

The math textbooks used in the public schools today are uniformly bad.
If students don't get a good teacher, they're screwed.

re: #230 Kepler Sings

To Buzzsaw:

"I notice you cannot argue content."

Man, you really picked the wrong person on this list to say that about. Suggest you do a search under his name.

You kind of give yourself away when you use the term "Darwinism". In science that term isn't used.

Ha, I got both sides covered.

I think God used Intelligent Design to create evolution and set the whole thing in place billions of years ago.

Aint I a stinker?

re: #236 hermeneutics

Ah yes, but Mr. Freshwater is, under color of government, that is in the public school system, seeking to further his particular brand of religion. That's still unconstitutional, even though he is only doing so on a personal level.

re: #230 Kepler Sings

Your Inner Fish

Buy it. Read it. Love it.

re: #226 hermeneutics

No kidding. And we wonder why kids don't reason well? [...]

It's Wikipedia's fault they claim.

[...]and erroneously taught kids HOW to think..

You think that is somehow bad? If so, you are seriously mistaken.

re: #223 reine.de.tout

of all the persuasion over the years.

A million updings, yes. I hated my parents through out my formative years (because they did their JOB as parents); but they're the main reason why I became successful. (And if you're reading this Mr. Vacek, my senior year teacher, you have my eternal gratitude as well.)

re: #248 BGOH

I'm watching the game too, what are you talking about?

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ha, I like that...

Here is the boy's arm. It may very well heal..but he is traumatized for the rest of his life. How dare that idiot do this to a kid? How dare he?

I hope this POS loses his teaching license, and is never allowed to teach anywhere in this country again in a public school. In addition, he really needs to be sued.

re: #97 Sharmuta

Because if you read the report- it sounds like there were witnesses. The other children described a cross. Why would a bunch of kids- some admitting they like this teacher- all lie about where the victim obtained this mark?

Not to mention Freshwater's own admission, though he tried to say it was an "X" and not a cross.

re: #260 chicagodudewhotrades

I'm watching the game too, what are you talking about?

They just went on a five minute ramble (imagine that with Joe Morgan involved!) about who Obama's favorite White Sox are, how many times he has thrown out the opening pitch, which Backstreet Boy he likes the mostest, etc. Even Gammons got involved.

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ha, I got both sides covered.

I think God used Intelligent Design to create evolution and set the whole thing in place billions of years ago.

Aint I a stinker?

This was widely accepted thought when Darin's theory first came out, as Darwin was not the first to suggest the concept of evolution. There was Jean-Baptiste Lamark as well as the field known as orthogenesis.

re: #230 Kepler Sings

Now...go find a book that gives me the math for one species evolving into another.

The "math"?! What kind of "math" are you expecting?

Can you show us the "math" for your preferred theory of the origin and diversification of life on this planet?

re: #230 Kepler Sings

I notice you cannot argue content. Was the American system first established under Biblical guidance or not? Do you like what the education system has evolved into or not? Could you pass a high school test given at the turn of the century. Probably, since you apparently know it all. Now...go find a book that gives me the math for one species evolving into another...I think that is a fair demand is you want to claim evolution is "science." Just show me the starting parameters of a particular species then give me the math that shows them becoming anything else. This should be easy for someone that knows it so well. Not even a hard one, not even going to ask how symbiotic relationships could come about, or parasites, let alone a virus. Come on all the scientific experts here, you are ready to damn anyone that believes God was the creator, show us your proven science. Or is it more of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for evolutionary thought?

Whoops, dinged that up when I meant to ding it down...

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

Very true, Sleepy B. He didn't deny he did it!

re: #266 Sharmuta

as well as the field known as orthogenesis.