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Video: Al Jazeera on Islamic Saudi Academy

Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 1:15:33 pm PDT

Al Jazeera aired this report a few days ago on the Islamic Saudi Academy in Fairfax, Virginia (whose textbooks were revealed to be teaching hatred of non-Muslims). It’s over the top grievance theater at its worst, as the reporter blames the controversy on certain “Congressmen” (nudge, wink) who are “hostile to Arabs and Muslims.” (Courtesy of MEMRI TV.)

Click picture to play video. Requires Windows Media Player; Mac users should install Flip4Mac.

Following are excerpts from a report on the Islamic Saudi Academy in Virginia, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on June 17, 2008:

Reporter: We are at the Islamic Saudi Academy in the state of Virginia – the largest institution teaching the Arabic language and Islamic education on the East Coast of the U.S. However, this institution faces mounting pressure, and this is a nightmare for the families of the students enrolled in the academy. This pressure is exerted by several Congressmen, known for their great hostility towards Arabs and Muslims.

This child recites verses from the Koran with perfect diction, even though he is only six years old. These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil. Their parents decided to help them find their roots in a supervised environment. This goal has been achieved at the Islamic Saudi Academy. However, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, which was established by Congress, has recommended that the academy be shut down, alleging that its religious curricula, which are taught in Saudi Arabia as well, included material inciting to racism and intolerance towards other religions. [The commission] did not even talk to those in charge of the academy, let alone visit it.

Abd Al-Rahman Al-Ghufayli, Principal of the Boy’s School: We have nothing to hide. That’s why we invited them there and tried to discuss things with them, but I’m sad to say, they did not accept our invitation. This suggests that the commission has a certain agenda, which it is trying to implement.

Reporter: The local authority of Fairfax County, where the academy is located, has challenged the threats of closure. It determined that the allegations are invalid, and it approved the religious curricula after examining them. The non-Muslim teachers also expressed disgust and frustration at the allegations.

Kate Schneider, English teacher: The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth. This school teaches faith, and the same basic values we want all our children to have.

Reporter: The academy’s students participate in community activities, which differ from other American schools. The U.S. President even sent letters of appreciation to the students.

Fardia Turkestani, Principal of the Girls’ School: We are very proud that a student of ours won this award three years in a row.

Reporter: “I will become the slave of he who teaches me a single letter.” So what should be said about those who teach an entire language? What should be said about a commission that some say is unconstitutional and contradicts the very meaning of its name? This commission calls upon all countries of the world to respect freedom of religion there, while the commission itself violates this freedom on its own land.

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366 comments

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1 Sizzlack  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:16:25pm

Cue the crying baby picture...

2 rawmuse  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:17:42pm

This is way more frightening than creationism, if you ask me. Creationists have not bombed anything, yet.

3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:18:56pm
This pressure is exerted by several Congressmen, known for their great hostility towards Arabs and Muslims.

They havent seen hostile yet.

4 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:19:01pm
... the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, which was established by Congress, has recommended that the academy be shut down, alleging that its religious curricula, which are taught in Saudi Arabia as well, included material inciting to racism and intolerance towards other religions.

I thought they were teaching love, peace, and tranquility.

5 Sizzlack  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:19:11pm
This goal has been achieved at the Islamic Saudi Academy.

And by goal, he means brainwashing...

6 Lazarus  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:19:31pm

"Free" to be a slave and to enslave.

7 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:19:36pm

Behold the reason for Al-Jazeera's existence.

8 bosforus  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:19:39pm
These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil.

Scariest part of the whole situation.

9 Dustyvet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:21:14pm

Cair John Doe Law Suit in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

10 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:21:30pm
The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth.

Now go write redundant 1000 times on the board.

11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:21:48pm
This school teaches faith, and the same basic values we want all our children to have.

Faith and values like kill the Jews and Infidels, take their things and beat or kill your women to uphold the family honor?

12 JSK1121  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:22:12pm

"Kate Schneider, English teacher: The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth. This school teaches faith, and the same basic values we want all our children to have."

When the faith being taught is Islamic, there is always going to be racial, religious and gender hatred as part of the curriculum. Hatred, destruction and crime are inherent traits of Islam, that's why this school should be shut down.

13 Genosaurer  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:22:22pm

Odd that the report makes no mention of the textbooks. I wonder if Ms. Schneider was unaware of their content, or if she's just a useful idiot?

14 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:23:00pm

Understand: the teaching of hatred is the teaching of Islam. This is what the Mohammedans themselves keep telling us.

15 JSK1121  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:23:25pm

re: #8 bosforus

Flowers? More like Audrey II from Little Shop of Horrors!

"Feed me infidels, Seymour!"

16 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:23:35pm

Not one mention of the Apes and Pigs thing.

Not surprising.

They are basically saying that by teaching that Joos are apes and pigs, that they are teaching faith.

It's true.

They're merely teaching the Koran.

17 jamgarr  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:24:05pm

it approved the religious curricula

Huh?

18 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:24:44pm

"This commission calls upon all countries of the world to respect freedom of religion there, while the commission itself violates this freedom on its own land."

Isn't this what we have all been saying about Saudi Arabia and the other mo countries? Well, since THEY don't have to listen to us, I say WE don't have to listen to them. Screw 'em.

19 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:24:45pm

re: #8 bosforus

Scariest part of the whole situation.

That's pretty chilling, but the auditorium retical of Koranic verses is pretty terrifying as well. Madrassahlicious.

20 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:24:58pm

Fardia Turkestani, Principal of the Girls’ School

HOLD THE WEDDIN ,,, Girls ,,, in SCHOOL !?!?!?! I thought that was agaisnt Sharia law ?

21 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:25:33pm
Reporter: “I will become the slave of he who teaches me a single letter.” So what should be said about those who teach an entire language?

That they have a shitload of slaves.

22 Abu Kuffar  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:26:41pm

The pressure is exerted by saudi oil ticks, known for their great hostility towards jews and infidels.

23 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:26:41pm

re: #18 UberInfidel67

"This commission calls upon all countries of the world to respect freedom of religion there, while the commission itself violates this freedom on its own land."

Isn't this what we have all been saying about Saudi Arabia and the other mo countries? Well, since THEY don't have to listen to us, I say WE don't have to listen to them. Screw 'em.

Because the Saudi veiwer thinks that means their freedom to study Islam in Saudi Arabia.

24 redc1c4  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:26:44pm

why do they even bother with an English teacher? it's not like a good muslim needs to know anything that isn't in the koran.....

come to think of it, why do they even bother with a school?

25 bosforus  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:27:13pm

re: #19 Diamond Bullet

That's pretty chilling, but the auditorium retical of Koranic verses is pretty terrifying as well. Madrassahlicious.

How long before they do some history reenactments? (was it Hamas doing the reenactments of murdering a Jew?)

26 turn  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:27:16pm

"This child recites verses from the Koran with perfect diction, even though he is only six years old. These flowers, which have just begun to bloom go BOOM, have sprouted on American soil. Their parents decided to help them find their roots in a supervised brainwashing environment."

/fixed

27 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:27:17pm
The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth.

"You are to convert the infidel or kill him and Jews are descended from apes and pigs"

You see, these statements while being the revealed word of the profit (peanut brownies under here) are not true in the sense that the definition of true is not the same definition of truth as we would believe. The infidels "truth" is not the same nor has the same meaning of Truth so therfore, these accusations are entirely false and scurrilous. Off with their heads.

28 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:27:56pm

re: #26 turn


Brilliant

29 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:27:59pm
However, this institution faces mounting pressure, and this is a nightmare for the families of the students enrolled in the academy. This pressure is exerted by several Congressmen, known for their great hostility towards Arabs and Muslims.

Geee, I wonder why this institution faces mounting pressure?

Within months of the attacks by 15 Saudi hijackers, the Washington Post reported the Saudi academy's 11th-grade textbooks, for example, say one sign of the Day of Judgment will be that Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees.

The Post went on to quote several students who say they are taught in Islamic studies that "it is better to shun and even to dislike Christians, Jews and Shiite Muslims." One teen told the paper he's taught by academy teachers that it's OK for Muslims to hurt or steal from such "kafirs."

This was the steady diet of hate the Saudi academy fed Ahmed Abu Ali, who joined al-Qaida after graduating and plotted to kill President Bush. Lest anyone think Ali was a misfit loner, he graduated valedictorian and was voted as the "Most Likely to Be a Martyr."

/what other high school in this country takes a vote for "Most Likely to Be a Martyr." ?

30 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:29:03pm
Most Likely to Be a Martyr

re: #29 Killian Bundy


Please tell me that's sarcasm.

31 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:29:30pm

re: #30 Ben Hur


I was going to ask the same thing.

32 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:29:39pm

The moonbat English teacher (redundant?) is also a hoot. But the best quote from the broadcast was this:

The academy's students participate in community activities which differ from other American schools.

Nooooo kidding.

33 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:30:19pm

re: #30 Ben Hur

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

/don't you wish

34 Russkilitlover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:31:13pm
has recommended that the academy be shut down, alleging that its religious curricula, which are taught in Saudi Arabia as well,

Oh, so because it's taught in SA as well that makes it okay? Who is this reporter and who is holding her family hostage to make her spout this garbage?

35 daddycrack  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:31:34pm
Kate Schneider, English teacher: The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth. This school teaches faith, and the same basic values we want all our children to have.

Wow, this is mindblowing. So they have an English teacher at the Saudi academy stating a redundancy. She is obviously over-qualified to be an English teacher. Probably was fired from Fairfax county public schools.

And for these Arabs to come here and question us about freedom of religion is laughable. Seen a star of david in Riyadh lately? How about a rosary? Please!

36 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:31:41pm

re: #32 Diamond Bullet

The moonbat English teacher (redundant?) is also a hoot. But the best quote from the broadcast was this:


Nooooo kidding.

Sorry, this thread is gunna need some heating up, so I thought ..........

37 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:31:53pm

re: #2 rawmuse

This is way more frightening than creationism, if you ask me. Creationists have not bombed anything, yet.

ya think?

38 Dustyvet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:32:36pm

re: #32 Diamond Bullet

The moonbat English teacher (redundant?) is also a hoot. But the best quote from the broadcast was this:

Nooooo kidding.

Beheading 101?

39 Brees  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:33:28pm

Ok.

Is that a hallway of the school, she's standing in?

If so. Are those two badged police/security officers in the background?

Does that mean the school isn't safe?

Are there metal detectors that the school children have to pass through?

40 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:33:29pm
This child recites verses from the Koran with perfect diction, even though he is only six years old. These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil.

I wonder what they mean by "bloom". Exactly.

41 Russkilitlover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:33:54pm

re: #10 Ben Hur

Now go write redundant 1000 times on the board.

......Says the "English" teacher.

ROTFLMAO! Oh, Lordy!

42 TallTexan  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:34:20pm

What districts do Congresspersons Nudge and Wink represent? I'd like to contribute!

43 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:34:23pm

re: #39 Brees

Ok.

Is that a hallway of the school, she's standing in?

If so. Are those two badged police/security officers in the background?

Does that mean the school isn't safe?

Are there metal detectors that the school children have to pass through?

I'd bet they have to turn them off as the kids leave.

44 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:34:40pm

re: #40 Occasional Reader


see # 26, I think that is getting very close to the truth, even their truth.

45 bosforus  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:34:54pm

OT
Ben Hur,
3-0! Not too shabby. You rootin' for Spain as well?

46 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:35:04pm

Lets be be the first (second, third. possibly fourth) to say, WhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhabis

47 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:35:05pm

re: #38 Dustyvet

Beheading 101?

Advanced Goat Humping

48 madisonsfriend  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:35:52pm

"During a visit to Prague, Czech Republic, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said Israel should reopen the crossings to preserve the truce"

Did he go to a Saudi academy too? repeated rocket attacks from Gaza to Israel- what truce? Oh, right, I forgot an Arab truce is " we attack, Israel let us attack"

49 Spider Mensch  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:36:34pm

re: #40 Occasional Reader

I wonder what they mean by "bloom". Exactly.

mis type...take out the "L"

50 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:37:32pm

re: #17 jamgarr

it approved the religious curricula

Huh?

My understanding is that the Fairfax County Board definitely approved the $ 2 million per annum rent money it gets for letting the school use county property. Other than that, the Board knows nothing and cares even less.

51 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:38:33pm
52 godfrey  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:39:02pm

I found the school's anthem:

Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took
But I do know that I hate Jews
And if I slew them all, and kuffars too
What a wonderful world this would be

53 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:39:40pm

It has never changed....when in doubt........

54 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:40:29pm

re: #42 TallTexan

What districts do Congresspersons Nudge and Wink represent? I'd like to contribute!

I'm guessing that one of them is Steve Pearce, R-NM, and he's running for Senate against one of the Udalls, and he does need help.

55 coquimbojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:41:01pm

re: #29 Killian Bundy

/what other high school in this country takes a vote for "Most Likely to Be a Martyr." ?

"Cutest couple not yet married about to be caned" and "Best covered hair" "least likely to be funny" were also hotly contested yearbook catagories....

56 madisonsfriend  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:41:01pm

Reporter: The academy’s students participate in community activities, which differ from other American schools.

What - that is a bald faced lie? Other students don't participate in community activities- they are required to in many schools- my kids volunteered at a shelter and a summer camp. What activities did these kids participate in- teach girls how to be subservient day?

57 chinesearithmetic  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:41:56pm

49 I wonder what they mean by "bloom". Exactly.

mis type...take out the "L"

52 Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took
But I do know that I hate Jews
And if I slew them all, and kuffars too
What a wonderful world this would be

They can't defeat my guys.

58 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:42:04pm

re: #40 Occasional Reader

I wonder what they mean by "bloom". Exactly.

The l was added later, if that helps.

59 Kathleen  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:42:25pm

The danger may not be immediate, but allowing these institutions to thrive poses a serious future danger to the United States and other western nations. Wherever Muslims become a majority, Sharia will become the law of the land.

Think of the future, and the real threat is clear.

60 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:42:33pm

This reminds me of all of those Christian and Jewish private schools that were found to be preaching that one must murder all people not of their faith.....you see it is Religion that is the problem..

~oh wait, what?....that never happened? doh!

61 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:42:37pm

re: #54 wrenchwench

I'm guessing that one of them is Steve Pearce, R-NM, and he's running for Senate against one of the Udalls, and he does need help.

I'm sure Sue Myrick of NC is in that honorable group.

62 Pygmalienation  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:42:41pm

"These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil. Their parents decided to help them find their roots in a supervised environment."

That just gives me a severe case of ...dare I say it? "Islamophobia"

63 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:43:08pm

re: #34 Russkilitlover,

Saudi Arabia is the Model of Religious Tolerance that Mohammedans wish to see spread across the world. Comforting, isn't it?

64 rawmuse  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:43:43pm

If these are blooming flowers, pass the Roundup.

65 Venezuela lover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:44:14pm
This commission calls upon all countries of the world to respect freedom of religion there, while the commission itself violates this freedom on its own land.

Islam does not support freedom of religion and that is why they are not wanted in this country. Stop the crap about muslims killing non-believers, let churches into Islamic countries, stop killing apostates, and rewrite the racist Koran, then we will reconsider.

66 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:44:18pm

re: #64 rawmuse

If these are blooming flowers, pass the Roundup.

One Dingy Uppy

67 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:44:41pm

re: #33 Killian Bundy

/don't you wish

I don't beleive it.

68 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:44:53pm

re: #67 Ben Hur

I don't beleive it.

Believe, either.

69 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:45:02pm

I just LOVE that parting shot about "Freedom of Religion".

70 Abu Lahab  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:45:12pm

Nothing from Al Jazeera seems surprising anymore. They are Al Jihad TV so openly. They don't see a problem in preaching Jihad since they do that themselves. Thanks for whoever had a hand in exposing that "academy".

71 Dustyvet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:45:25pm

re: #63 Iron Fist

,

Saudi Arabia is the Model of Religious Tolerance that Mohammedans wish to see spread across the world. Comforting, isn't it?

[Link: cache.viewimages.com...]

72 saltmarsh  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:45:38pm

If mohammad was the ideal role model for all muslims, and mohammad couldn't read or write, would someone please explain why they have schools? Oral history anyone?

islam is still a perfidious pigshit cult.

73 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:46:07pm

re: #61 wolfie

I'm sure Sue Myrick of NC is in that honorable group.


Exactly. We need good people like these in the House and the Senate. These are the kind of candidates one could get excited about.

74 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:46:46pm

re: #71 Dustyvet,

I get a 403 - Forbidden error when I try the link.

75 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:49:28pm

re: #72 saltmarsh

Your broad outright hatred of a very large group of people is not very becoming. Not to mention that it does the reputation of LGF and the other posters here no favors.

76 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:50:00pm

re: #32 Diamond Bullet

The moonbat English teacher (redundant?) is also a hoot. But the best quote from the broadcast was this:

Nooooo kidding.

Please tell me that you didn't mean to suggest that English teachers are usually moonbats.

77 Russkilitlover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:50:00pm

re: #74 Iron Fist

,

I get a 403 - Forbidden error when I try the link.

That's because you are an Infidel and are not allowed to view sacred Islamic images. Either that, or you haven't received your permission from the UN yet to use the amount of energy it takes to open the link.

78 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:50:02pm

re: #45 bosforus

OT
Ben Hur,
3-0! Not too shabby. You rootin' for Spain as well?

It's a toss up.

As I posted yesterday, the remaining 4 teams have quite the history with my people.

79 BignJames  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:50:39pm

Reporter: The academy’s students participate in community activities, which differ from other American schools

I'll bet.

80 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:51:32pm

re: #79 BignJames

Reporter: The academy’s students participate in community activities, which differ from other American schools

I'll bet.


That's meant to be a slight against American schools.

Hollywood has taught them what those are like.

81 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:51:39pm

re: #71 Dustyvet

All I got was the html code for the link

82 Russkilitlover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:51:45pm

re: #76 goddessoftheclassroom

Please tell me that you didn't mean to suggest that English teachers are usually moonbats.

Goddess - methinks you are an exception. For some reason, I know a lot of teachers, primary and college/university, and most are to the left of moonbats.

83 Pygmalienation  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:52:06pm

re: #64 rawmuse

Indeed, may American Soil prove toxic to these "flowers".

84 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:52:37pm

Do numerous countries open schools in our country or is it only Saudi Arabia?

This whole "other Countries opening up schools to teach american children" thing is odd.... What is the problem? Some American muslim couldn't start their own school here?

85 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:53:24pm

re: #77 Russkilitlover,

Well, we all know that We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times, or click links on blogs ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK

That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen.

:-þ

86 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:53:53pm

I guess this means more Saudis will fear coming to the US.

All this PR will backfire.

87 loubob57  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:53:57pm

Aren't they getting tax money to run this academy? They freely admit they are teaching religion. Gosh, isn't that a problem?

88 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:54:05pm
89 BignJames  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:54:22pm

re: #80 Ben Hur


Yeah...I got it...but I was thinking more along the lines of bombmaking, head chopping, infidel killing etc.

90 vxbush  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:54:29pm

re: #76 goddessoftheclassroom

Please tell me that you didn't mean to suggest that English teachers are usually moonbats.

[she says, while holding a copy of the OED, ready to strike against anyone who calls her moonbat]

91 Iron Fist  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:54:46pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

I guess this means more Saudis will fear coming to the US.


I'm not seein' a downside here...

92 saltmarsh  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:55:56pm

re: #75 WrathofG-d
I beg your pardon, I don't hate Muslims. I believe them to be deluded, but I don't hate them. I do believe however, people who understand and follow the Koran have a deep and abiding hatred for infidels such as myself.

93 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:56:21pm

re: #75 WrathofG-d

Your broad outright hatred of a very large group of people is not very becoming. Not to mention that it does the reputation of LGF and the other posters here no favors.

As one that has several Muslim freinds, I agree with you. Too many times we rush to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. I know it's not popular to say, but it's just a minority of RADICAL Muslims that are reported about, and often we lump them together with Palistinains, radical non-Muslim Arabs and Persians as a whole and derive from that that "MuslimS" are all evil.

I often discuss with my freinds why they as Muslims don't speak out more fervently against the radicals. They assure me that they do, but they get no audience with the MSM.

94 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:56:25pm
95 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:56:53pm

re: #76 goddessoftheclassroom

Please tell me that you didn't mean to suggest that English teachers are usually moonbats.

I suspect that on the university level the vast majority are today.
Considering that today in many colleges you can major in English without ever having taken a course on Shakespeare, on Milton, or on Dickens........indeed, w/o ever reading anything written before WWII....the universities are turning out a sad pool from which our teachers will be drawn.

96 Alouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:57:08pm

Oh you are all just a bunch of Islamophobes!

What do you say about Jewish schools teaching that Jews have an extra soul gentiles do not have! Isn't that racism and hate! You are such hypocrites!

This is just an anti-Arab, Muslim-hating racist HATE SITE!!

I am reporting you to the Human Rights Commission!

Sincerely,

Richard Warman

97 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:57:11pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

I guess this means more Saudis will fear coming to the US.

All this PR will backfire.

I don't think you can make America as distasteful to Muslims as Saudi Arabia or, well, any other Muslim state.
Strangely enough, the much detested freedom seems to have created a much nicer country than Sharia.

98 bosforus  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:57:35pm

re: #78 Ben Hur

It's a toss up.

As I posted yesterday, the remaining 4 teams have quite the history with my people.

"My people" would dictate that I root for Germany over Spain in the finals. However, because of other factors, I'm pulling for Spain.

99 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:57:40pm

Totally o/t:

My shiny new-minted Marine son is visiting! Graduating his advance training school #6 in class, to be stationed in Okinawa (his dream post), and coming here to Hawaii for a month in between!

Yay! SO proud of him -- he just decided out of the blue to join last year, and had to lose 80 pounds and get his sorry sack-of-potatoes butt into shape. He says it's proof anyone can do it.

100 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:57:43pm

re: #92 saltmarsh

I'm not going to re-quote your last statement, nor get into a pissing match with you, but some comments in that original post seemed to show otherwise. You can believe, and think whatever you'd like, I am however going to point out my disfavor with such behavior when I see it.

101 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:58:07pm

re: #82 Russkilitlover

Goddess - methinks you are an exception. For some reason, I know a lot of teachers, primary and college/university, and most are to the left of moonbats.

Serious questions (please don't laugh!): do you think they bring their bias into the class room?

That's was irks me.

102 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:58:34pm

re: #75 WrathofG-d

He was speaking about Islam itself, not muslims.

103 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:58:41pm
104 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:58:49pm

re: #78 Ben Hur

It's a toss up.

As I posted yesterday, the remaining 4 teams have quite the history with my people.

Roman Gladiators ?

105 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:12pm

re: #90 vxbush

[she says, while holding a copy of the OED, ready to strike against anyone who calls her moonbat]

LOL! Even the condensed OED would be a lethal weapon with enough physical force behind it!

106 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:21pm
107 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:36pm

re: #97 nikis-knight


As long as their media, CAIR, etc, keeps telling them that there is an anti-Muslim atmosphere akin to 1930's Germany vis a vis der Juden, they do end up thinking twice about coming.

108 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:37pm

re: #101 goddessoftheclassroom

Serious questions (please don't laugh!): do you think they bring their bias into the class room?

That's was irks me.

BRING it? They FLAUNT IT !

109 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:37pm

re: #87 loubob57

Aren't they getting tax money to run this academy? They freely admit they are teaching religion. Gosh, isn't that a problem?

No. It is a private school funded by SArabia.
But the county is leasing them their land.....and in the la$t couple of week$ or $o voted to renew the lea$e.

110 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 1:59:59pm

re: #84 WrathofG-d

I have no problem with schools leaning towards religious based education.

I would be a hypocrite if I was.

The problem is, the fine line.

We as a nation have to come to our own realization sooner or later, there are forces out there hell bent on using our own freedom to undermine us.

Furthermore, we are financing this.

While some may disagree with my Catholic faith, they don't have oil wells raking in our dollars only to be used against our way of life.

Never in a million years, the day after 911, would I dream that in less than 10 years, we would be dealing with this on our own soil right now.

Never.

111 vxbush  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:00:15pm

re: #105 goddessoftheclassroom

LOL! Even the condensed OED would be a lethal weapon with enough physical force behind it!

Heh. Exactly. Much better than the Chicago Manual of Style.

112 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:00:17pm

re: #99 kywrite

Totally o/t:

My shiny new-minted Marine son is visiting! Graduating his advance training school #6 in class, to be stationed in Okinawa (his dream post), and coming here to Hawaii for a month in between!

Yay! SO proud of him -- he just decided out of the blue to join last year, and had to lose 80 pounds and get his sorry sack-of-potatoes butt into shape. He says it's proof anyone can do it.

Congratulations! Please thank him for his commitment.

113 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:00:38pm

re: #93 sattv4u2

I would find it hard to believe that the MSM does't want to promote anti-terrorism Muslims if they exist in such a high number, as the MSM spends most of its time excusing even the Terrorists....but our point that outright hatred of Islam or Muslims is not necessary or productive is valid. I have no Muslim friends (that i know of) and do not think very fondly of those that I have met (because of their personal attitudes, nothing having to do with politics, etc.), but I am very careful not to scapegoat every individual for the actions of others. (whether it be a majority, or a minority).

114 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:00:42pm

re: #98 bosforus

"My people" would dictate that I root for Germany over Spain in the finals. However, because of other factors, I'm pulling for Spain.

I'll end up pulling for Spain, too.

115 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:01:17pm

re: #111 vxbush

Heh. Exactly. Much better than the Chicago Manual of Style.

Infidel! We English teachers insist on the MLA!

116 sadhu  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:01:17pm

so Homeland Security is all over this place, the reporter and Al-Jiz

correct?

117 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:01:33pm
118 rawmuse  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:03:11pm

re: #116 sadhu

so Homeland Security is all over this place, the reporter and Al-Jiz

correct?

Just as soon as they get out of sensitivity training.

119 vxbush  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:04:15pm

re: #115 goddessoftheclassroom

Infidel! We English teachers insist on the MLA!

Yeah, but you can't hurt anybody with a copy of the MLA standards. OED much better.

120 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:04:33pm
121 sadhu  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:04:59pm

re: #93 sattv4u2

a minority of RADICAL Muslims

what, about 100 million worldwide?

122 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:02pm

re: #117 ploome hineni

you mean people make judgements based on association? id that fair?

/ask Obama and his superego

123 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:06pm

re: #110 formercorpsman

You are 100% correct. I for one, am also not against relgious teachings in our schools (private or public - depending on what the teachings are.)

I have made this point here before, and state that the line is not that fine actually; nor is it a new problem. The issue comes down to where religion bumps up against other non-religously based laws. Like Rasta and smoking marijuana for example. Although they have tried to argue that they should have the right to smoke pot based on their religion, the Courts have often found that the non-religous drug laws trump their Religious freedom.

It would be no doubt to me then that a Court or society could easily find that the laws against indoctrination towards violence, etc., which are religion-neutral, are enough to outlaw the hatred taught by Islamic (or any other) schools.

Thus, it is not Islam that is going to be outlawed but those aspects of their relgiion that teach things that violate other religion-neutral laws.

124 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:11pm

re: #120 ploome hineni

Then you understand my point completely.

125 neoconkat  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:23pm

re: #84 WrathofG-d

Well, yes, least on the university level. Take Soka University, a Buddisht college here on the west coast. They are big in Japan (har har) and other Buddisht countries. However, on a primary schooling level, I'm not entirely sure though I have never seen one such as this Saudi school until these reports about it starting coming out.

126 Neo Con since 9-11  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:30pm

Did anyone else notice the report used the term Madrasah rather than the more accurate term madrasah islamia? Al-Jazeera used to be very obvious in their biases when speaking in Arabic. I guess they finally realized we infidels can learn Arabic too.

127 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:05:56pm
128 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:06:42pm
129 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:06:52pm

re: #125 neoconkat


Is that a international school that has campuses in other Countries, or actually a Japanese school teaching in the U.S?

130 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:08:02pm

re: #121 sadhu

what, about 100 million worldwide?

You think there are 100 million RADICAL Muslims?

131 Morganfrost  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:08:25pm
[The commission] did not even talk to those in charge of the academy, let alone visit it.

And Bush has never spoken with Bin Laden or visited any of al Qaeda's training camps. Yet he persists in his fight against them! That must make him a reactionary bigot, right?

132 alegrias  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:08:40pm

It is a Saudi GOVERNMENT school teaching anti-American values such as apartheid of all kinds, on US soil.

This is an anti-American institution, approved by Democrat-controlled Fairfax County (VA) Board of Supervisors headed by democrat Gerold Connolly, who is running for Congress to replace Tom Davis (R-VA).

Connolly accepted the 2million payment and his democrat cronies think this is fine crap to teach to American kids.

But Dems won't give educational vouchers to poor kids trapped in Washington DC's crappy government schools.

133 opinionated  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:08:48pm
several Congressmen, known for their great hostility towards Arabs and Muslims.

How are we going to send campaign contributions if they don't name names?

134 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:08:58pm

re: #130 sattv4u2

Well its a huge number if you just do the simple math.

just take 2 % (a low guess) of the total number (billions).

135 MJ  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:09:29pm

Wonder if this is in the lesson plan:


Saudi Marriage Officiant: It Is Permitted to Marry a Girl Aged One Year, If Sex is Postponed; The Prophet Muhammad, Whose Model We Follow, Married 'Aisha When She Was Six and Had Sex with Her When She Was Nine

Following are excerpts from an interview with Saudi marriage officiant Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi. The interview aired on LBC TV on June 19, 2008:

To view the clip on MEMRI TV, visit [Link: www.memritv.org...]

136 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:09:45pm

re: #130 sattv4u2

You think there are 100 million RADICAL Muslims?

Hmm. Less than 10%? Sounds kind of low to me.

137 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:10:01pm

re: #123 WrathofG-d

My only reservation, in all of what you state, is that we have a judicial branch that absconds her responsibility in upholding the law.

Same as the legislative. Illegal immigration.

Only one caveat exists, and it is crucial.

Too many refuse to assimilate, and their sole purpose (funded as well) is to contain our ability to act as a Republic.

It can bring the country down.

138 Russkilitlover  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:10:10pm

re: #101 goddessoftheclassroom

Serious questions (please don't laugh!): do you think they bring their bias into the class room?

That's was irks me.

HECK YEAH! YOU BETCHA! MAIS OUI! BIEN SUR! ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY!

Not that I feel that strongly or anything.......

139 vxbush  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:10:10pm

re: #101 goddessoftheclassroom

Serious questions (please don't laugh!): do you think they bring their bias into the class room?

That's was irks me.

A friend of mine who is a sweet woman who has a great house and a great job consistently supports Obama--has his bumper stickers, talks him up all the time--and has really no clue what he stands for, other than "he isn't a Republican." I think she would have preferred Hillary, but she's behind whomever has the nomination.

She used to be an English teacher.

140 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:12:01pm

re: #110 formercorpsman

The problem is not that it is a religious school.
It could as easily be a secular one. A Nazi or Maoist school, for example.

The dividing line is not between religion and secularism, but between animating viewpoints that are compatible with our constitutional government and those that are not.

141 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:12:12pm

I have to boogie folks.

see you later.

142 neoconkat  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:13:26pm

re: #129 WrathofG-d

Belive they are just a Japanese school that has branched out to other countries with Buddisht populations. However I believe they are privately owned, not government soponsered.

143 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:13:28pm

re: #140 wolfie

Agree.

144 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:13:30pm

re: #133 opinionated

How are we going to send campaign contributions if they don't name names?

See #54, #61, and #73.

145 formercorpsman  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:14:13pm

re: #140 wolfie


I often speak roundabout.

Pretty much the same point I was making.

Their religion is fused with government however. Sharia.

146 opinionated  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:15:05pm

re: #139 vxbush

A friend of mine who is a sweet woman who has a great house and a great job consistently supports Obama--has his bumper stickers, talks him up all the time--and has really no clue what he stands for, other than "he isn't a Republican." I think she would have preferred Hillary, but she's behind whomever has the nomination.

She used to be an English teacher.

I was just watching and interview with Obama on FOX.

He was being asked all sort of very serious questions that will affect our lives.

And the thought I couldn't get out of my head as he answered with the usual Democrat crap is who is this nobody who will tackle these difficult issues but a smooth hip talker who has mesmerized million of fools.

147 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:15:25pm

re: #134 WrathofG-d

Well its a huge number if you just do the simple math.

just take 2 % (a low guess) of the total number (billions).

[Link: www.adherents.com...]

There are about 1.5 billion Mulsims worldwide

If you look at the list of most populace Muslim nations, you hear very little Radicalism coming from many of them

[Link: www.adherents.com...]

I'm in no way defending the radicals here, I just think it's a disservice to marginalize the vast majority that are NON-radicals.

148 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:15:42pm

re: #136 David Simon

see my #147

149 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:15:55pm
This child recites verses from the Koran with perfect diction, even though he is only six years old. These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil.

This is chilling beyond words

150 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:16:15pm

re: #137 formercorpsman

I'm not sure what assimilation has to do with upholding the religion-neutral laws to ensure that schools like this do not teach hatred, but I agree that it is difficult when the Courts won't even enforce the laws that are on the books. That is a seperate issue however.

My only point really is that the Religious Freedom argument made to excuse and protect their so-believed "Right" to teach the aspects of Islam that teach hatred, violence, etc., is a very very weak one, and they should be called on it. (like when an idiot claims a Freedom of Speech violation when there is no government actor). In addition, the laws that are on the books now (if actually enforced) are enough to allow Islam to be a part of the American fabric but protect us from its violent and hatful tendencies.

I don't fear assimalation too much as long as demands for the majority to change to the minority are not accepted and enforced. ie: Muslims can not eat un-Halal meat, and pray 5 times a day all they want in their cave of Dearborn, as long as they don't expect everyone else to submit to their failure to assimilate. In other words, they have the right to be left behind.

151 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:16:29pm

re: #145 formercorpsman

I often speak roundabout.

Pretty much the same point I was making.

Their religion is fused with government however. Sharia.

A key point!

152 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:17:37pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

I agree that the vast majority are not Terrorists or their supporters. I was only pointing out that even 2% would be a very scary number of people to deal with. (even if a very major minority)

I agree that we shouldn't scapegoat the entire religion for the actions of some of them.

153 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:17:57pm

re: #132 alegrias

It is a Saudi GOVERNMENT school teaching anti-American values such as apartheid of all kinds, on US soil.

This is an anti-American institution, approved by Democrat-controlled Fairfax County (VA) Board of Supervisors headed by democrat Gerold Connolly, who is running for Congress to replace Tom Davis (R-VA).

Connolly accepted the 2million payment and his democrat cronies think this is fine crap to teach to American kids.

But Dems won't give educational vouchers to poor kids trapped in Washington DC's crappy government schools.

It's also disturbing to me that parents CHOOSE to send their children there.

154 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:18:06pm

WHY DOES GEORGE BUSH HATE CHILDREN WHO ARE LEARNING?

155 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:18:29pm

re: #112 goddessoftheclassroom

He's the best young man in the world -- his previous job was in food service at a retirement home, and he'd go home and whip up special meals and cakes and such for some of the elderly folks, just because -- even for people he didn't like. They took up a collection when he left and gave him a hundred bucks, and he nearly cried.

Nobody better NEVER denigrate MY Marines! I've found they are all like that. (Navy guys are pretty nice too, so I married one of them.)

156 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:18:47pm

re: #152 WrathofG-d

I think you are confusing the religion with the people; IMHO it is the entire religion which is the problem

157 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:20:02pm

re: #39 Brees

Ok.

Is that a hallway of the school, she's standing in?

If so. Are those two badged police/security officers in the background?

Does that mean the school isn't safe?

Are there metal detectors that the school children have to pass through?

No, they get searched for illicit copies of the Torah, Bible, Book of Mormon; any crosses, Stars of David,

Of course, any quick thinking kid can claim he just beat up a Christian or Jew and stole the items to be desecrated later.
/do I have to?

158 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:20:06pm

re: #156 Ojoe

I have read the Koran and disagree with you. Eitherway, even if that were true the entire thing would not have to be destroyed for us to accomplish our goal.

Islam teaches many wonderful things about orphans, charity, modesty, family, etc. Why destroy these aspects when it is really the hateful, and violent aspects which are the problem?

159 vxbush  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:20:16pm

re: #146 opinionated

I was just watching and interview with Obama on FOX.

He was being asked all sort of very serious questions that will affect our lives.

And the thought I couldn't get out of my head as he answered with the usual Democrat crap is who is this nobody who will tackle these difficult issues but a smooth hip talker who has mesmerized million of fools.

Except he isn't that smooth! Get him in front of an audience without a script and he simply falls apart. I cant' imagine him actually talking tough to anyone.

160 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:20:34pm

re: #155 kywrite

He's the best young man in the world -- his previous job was in food service at a retirement home, and he'd go home and whip up special meals and cakes and such for some of the elderly folks, just because -- even for people he didn't like. They took up a collection when he left and gave him a hundred bucks, and he nearly cried.

Nobody better NEVER denigrate MY Marines! I've found they are all like that. (Navy guys are pretty nice too, so I married one of them.)

Is he single? If so, what's his upper age limit for dating? :)

161 mich-again  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:20:47pm

Why isn't the reporter wearing a hijab?

162 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:21:27pm

re: #158 WrathofG-d

They need to employ a big eraser but the Koran forbids that

163 Alouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:22:10pm

re: #161 mich-again

Why isn't the reporter wearing a hijab?

Stone the whore!

164 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:23:27pm
165 Pygmalienation  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:23:42pm

I'm probably the last one here to read it, but I'm well into "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance" , edited by Robert Spencer. For those who have yet to read it, it's very chilling, especially in light of this threads subject. It's a very informative, scholarly collection of articles and essays.

166 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:23:42pm

re: #156 Ojoe

I think you are confusing the religion with the people; IMHO it is the entire religion which is the problem

My feeling is your statement is backwards. Individuals (the Radicals) interpretation of the religion is the problem. Someone mentioned a 10% number. At 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide, thats 150 Million. Not an insignificant number by any means, but why tar the other 1.35 BILLION people?

167 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:25:00pm

Somebody should shove that bitch into a burqa. She needs to know her place.

/s

168 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:25:45pm

re: #159 vxbush

Except he isn't that smooth! Get him in front of an audience without a script and he simply falls apart. I cant' imagine him actually talking tough to anyone.

This was funny...

Brit Hume:

When Barack Obama declined John McCain's invitation to appear at a series of joint town hall meetings he not only went back on an earlier indication that he would, but he also contradicted what he wrote in his book.

In page 101 of "The Audacity of Hope," Obama writes that "one of my favorite tasks of being a senator is hosting town hall meetings. I held 39 of them my first year in the Senate."

Obama says in page 102 they are like "a dip in a cool stream. I feel cleansed afterward, glad for the work I have chosen."

169 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:25:46pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

The book is bad, the 10 commandments are not in it for instance

I think If I had a time machine, and went back and snatched the first copy, the world would look very different today.

Just sayin'

170 yehoshua  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:25:49pm

After Obama becomes President, these schools will proliferate.
And guess what? Web sites such as this will be closed down for their "intolerance." It will take another 9/11, well, actually two or maybe even three more 9/11's before we wake up . . . if even then. Remember: 98% of college graduates are brainwashed with a moral equivalency and a mult-cultural mind set that embraces Saudi schools on American soil.

171 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:26:26pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

I'm not tarring people. It is the system they are under

172 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:27:11pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

My feeling is your statement is backwards. Individuals (the Radicals) interpretation of the religion is the problem.

How else can you possibly interpret "Slay the infidel where you find them"?

The original source material is inherently flawed. Islam doesn't need reform, it needs a reset.

173 blue-x  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:27:13pm

when the weeds begin to show up in my garden (and they are relentless), it is time to go to work. " I am a firm believer in bud nip'n "-Barney

174 yehoshua  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:27:29pm

Our only hope is that our soldiers in Iraq come back here and take leadership positions. Otherwise, all is lost.

175 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:27:49pm

re: #172 Lizard by the Bay

exactly

176 WrathofG-d  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:28:14pm

re: #162 Ojoe

My original point up thread is that you can legally insist that certain parts of the Koran not be taught as they counter numerous religion-neutal laws that forbid violence, indoctrination, sediation, etc.

Thus, by these laws that already exist you can make the violent and hateful parts of any relgion illegal. Thus, when you find that these laws are being broken you can prosecute and most likely win.

The example of this given in Law School to me was the burning of an American flag which was hanging on the Capitol. We learned of this example when learning the 1st Amendment. When asked if this act was illegal, most of the class argued that it was not as such action was protected speech by the 1st, thus there was nothing the Gov could do. When asked what laws could be made to stop this, most argued that none could as all would be illegal because of 1st A protections. The Professor stated that the person was arrested and found guilty and asked the class how and why! The class was stumped. But one very wise student (me) while thinking out of the box stated that their were numerous laws broken that would have justified the arrest. Some of which were, Environmental laws, public safety of lighting a fire in public, trespassing, Destruction of private property, etc.

Thus, my point is that there are many religion-neutral laws that make the teaching of violence, hate, and the advocating violence illegal. This is what we as a Nation should be concentrating on, and this rule should be applied to ALL religions.

177 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:28:46pm

re: #169 Ojoe

The book is bad, the 10 commandments are not in it for instance

I think If I had a time machine, and went back and snatched the first copy, the world would look very different today.

Just sayin'

I agree that there are PASSAGES that are bad. But there are PASSAGES in the Old Testament that are bad also. The problem as I stated is that RADICAL Mulsims interpret the "bad passages" ver batem, where-as Judeo Christians view those "bad passages" in the Old and NEw testaments as either outdated or as parables and/or metaphores

178 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:30:05pm

re: #172 Lizard by the Bay

see my #177. Need I pull passages from the old and new testaments that are offensive?
(and just parenthitically, I'm a Roman Catholic, ex-alter boy)

179 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:30:11pm

re: #176 WrathofG-d

The problem people will not follow your suggestion in paragraph 1

Paragraph 4 should be tried

The problem people would be in jail

180 Ojoe  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:30:39pm

BBL

work

181 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:33:43pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

If you look at the list of most populace Muslim nations, you hear very little Radicalism coming from many of them

Indonesia? Pakistan? I think your definition of "very little" is a lot different than mine.

182 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:33:52pm

Yeesh. And I thought our MSM was biased.

183 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:34:27pm
184 yehoshua  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:34:53pm

I have yet to hear a single person, republican or otherwise, tell it like it is -- that the Moslems want to take over the world and we need to stop them from doing so. Why did Bush go soft after that beautiful "if you harbor a terrorist, you are a terrorist" statement? I know why. Because, by that definition, we are also terrorists since we permit a terrorist school to operate in Virginia. Bush's unfortunate friendship and frequent B-B-Q's with the Saudi royal family have something to do with his permitting Saudi schools in his own back yard.

185 stevieray  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:35:01pm

re: #171 Ojoe

I'm not tarring people. It is the system they are under

You are correct. Bin Laden and his ilk are literalists. They are not "interpreting" the Koran incorrectly, they are following it [and the strong hadiths] word-for-word. If you were to feed the Koran into a computer, and remove all human spin and wishful thinking, you would get a list of commands... a creed matching the teachings of Sayyid Qtub and Bin Laden. It is the moderates who depend upon interpretation, and it is for that reason they crumble whenever confronted by the fundamentalists.

186 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:35:09pm

re: #181 David Simon

Indonesia? Pakistan? I think your definition of "very little" is a lot different than mine.

I clearly typed MOST I suggest you look at that list again, then google a definition for MOST

187 neoconkat  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:36:33pm

re: #170 yehoshua

You're wrong there, about the brainwashing in all our schools. 98%? I'd cut that precent down alot. Yes there alot of mindless "multiculturalist" students who's bleeding heart makes them blind to everything around them just because its "exotic and different". Doesn't mean most or even a majority are that way.

Having gone to school around Berkley and the Bay Area (need I explain more), its not the younger generations that are blabbing this non-sense, rather the thirty and fourty somethings that keep trying to force the agenda onto the students and honestly, most aren't listening. I've seen and known more students who are joining our side of the fence then defecting to the other. They're tired of it, as was I. Even the more liberial ones do not want this mindless obedience and catering to the "exotic far-east".

Just as always, the loudest are also the loopiest and it appears that everyone from my generation is all for Shari law.

188 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:37:03pm

OT, but the Dems are now responding to this mornings SCOTUS ruling on the Heller case.

Dems split on Supreme Court’s gun ruling

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said she was “profoundly disappointed” that Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito voted to overturn Washington, D.C.’s handgun ban.

She described the decision as monumental in suggesting the Second Amendment grants individuals the right to own guns, and is not limited to states forming militia groups.

Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.), a possible vice presidential candidate, also applauded the ruling. “With today’s decision, the right to gun ownership is now the settled law of the land,” said Webb, one of 55 senators and 250 House members to sign an amicus brief in favor of overturning the ban.

Earth to Feinstein.... The Second Admendment clearly states, it does not suggest, that the individual has the right to keep and bear arms.

/F-ing moonbat

189 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:38:10pm

re: #177 sattv4u2

I agree that there are PASSAGES that are bad. But there are PASSAGES in the Old Testament that are bad also. The problem as I stated is that RADICAL Mulsims interpret the "bad passages" ver batem, where-as Judeo Christians view those "bad passages" in the Old and NEw testaments as either outdated or as parables and/or metaphores

But the difference is this: Christians know that the bible was written by men, men who lived in a very different world than today. Muslims believe that the koran is the very actual word of god (Allah), spoken through Mohammad and transcribed to paper. It is a primary tenet of Muslim faith. Therefore, it cannot be reinterpreted without offending (even opposing) Allah.

190 opnion  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:38:48pm

re: #172 Lizard by the Bay

How else can you possibly interpret "Slay the infidel where you find them"?

The original source material is inherently flawed. Islam doesn't need reform, it needs a reset.

Yeah, I have to agree with you . Islam needs a total redo.
The terrorists and their pom squad are not misinterpreting Islam.
Actually , they are quite pious as the template life of Mohammad is one of a sand pirate, psycho.
The Koran , by any civilized standard is a hateful is a ,abomination.
Many people recoil from these conclusions, but sadly it's true.

191 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:38:51pm

re: #188 Bubblehead II

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said she was “profoundly disappointed” that Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito voted to overturn Washington, D.C.’s handgun ban.

Someone call the waaaaaaah-mbulance. Poor widdle Dianne Feinstein.

192 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:40:19pm

re: #186 sattv4u2

I clearly typed MOST I suggest you look at that list again, then google a definition for MOST

lol. The most "populace" (I assume you mean populous) Muslim nations are Indonesia and Pakistan. I suggest you look at your own links.

193 Atweber  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:40:20pm

why did we develop their oil fields and then leave?-we should have kicked their sorry asses back into the desert and annexed the damn country----end of problem forever.

194 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:40:27pm

re: #191 Fat Jolly Penguin

Someone call the waaaaaaah-mbulance. Poor widdle Dianne Feinstein.

Ironically, and act of gun violence is what gave DiFi her big break in politics.

/I'm going to hell for that one

195 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:42:08pm

re: #189 Lizard by the Bay

But the difference is this: Christians know that the bible was written by men, men who lived in a very different world than today. Muslims believe that the koran is the very actual word of god (Allah), spoken through Mohammad and transcribed to paper. It is a primary tenet of Muslim faith. Therefore, it cannot be reinterpreted without offending (even opposing) Allah.

As a Christian (Roman Catholic) I beleive the Bible to be the very actual word of God, spoken thru Jesus, transcribed to paper and written by men.

196 Atweber  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:42:30pm

we have four good lawyers in black robes and 4 total losers with one switch hitter ---the next two appointees will be very critical.

197 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:42:50pm

re: #188 Bubblehead II

Isn't that logic something? They actually think that the Bill of Rights is comprised of nine guarantees of personal freedom and one oddball, Oh by the way, the State Militias can use guns instead of just throw rocks and spears. Its so ridiculous. And yet there are people like Pelosi who think that way.

198 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:43:05pm
199 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:43:17pm

re: #194 Lizard by the Bay

Ironically, and act of gun violence is what gave DiFi her big break in politics.

/I'm going to hell for that one

From Wiki:

On November 27, 1978, San Francisco mayor George Moscone and supervisor Harvey Milk were assassinated by a rival politician, Dan White, who had resigned from the Board of Supervisors only two weeks prior. Feinstein announced the assassinations to the stunned public, stating: "As president of the board of supervisors, it's my duty to make this announcement. Both Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk have been shot and killed."[12] As president of the Board of Supervisors, Feinstein automatically ascended to the mayoral position on December 4. She served out the remainder of the term and was elected in her own right in 1979 and re-elected in 1983.

I had no idea about that. That's a little creepy, actually...

200 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:44:41pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

re: #195 sattv4u2

As a Christian (Roman Catholic) I beleive the Bible to be the very actual word of God, spoken thru Jesus, transcribed to paper and written by men.

Even the Old Testement? The book of John wasn't written by John? Mark not Mark? Someone needs to go back to Sunday school. Maybe brush up on the Council of Nicaea.

201 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:44:48pm

re: #192 David Simon

lol. The most "populace" (I assume you mean populous) Muslim nations are Indonesia and Pakistan. I suggest you look at your own links.

I see. So you beleive that ALL Pakistanis and ALL Indonesians are radical muslims (totalling about 306 million people) to offset the LARGER list of countries on that list!?!?!?
Bangladesh 106,050,000
India 103,000,000
Turkey 62,410,000
Iran 60,790,000
Egypt 53,730,000
Nigeria 47,720,000
China 37,108,000

202 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:45:37pm

re: #197 Mich-again

And some of them (like Pelosi) are in positions of power. Scary, isn't it?

203 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:45:55pm

re: #200 Lizard by the Bay

re: #195 sattv4u2


Even the Old Testement? The book of John wasn't written by John? Mark not Mark? Someone needs to go back to Sunday school. Maybe brush up on the Council of Nicaea.

When I typed BIBLE, as a Roman Catholic, I'm speaking of the NEW TESTAMENT

204 yehoshua  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:47:18pm

re: #187 neoconkat

I hope with all my heart that you are right! I only know that my daughter used to be conservative like myself until she started going to University of Southern California, generally considered a relatively conservative university. Then one day she comes home and starts blabbering about Obama! Of course, I did everything in my power to set her straight, and think -- pray! -- I succeeded in doing so. But from what I see of her friends who go to University of Arizona, UCLA, Michigan, and University of Miami, everyone is an Obamaton with all the accompanying multi-cultural baggage.

205 stevieray  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:47:32pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

Funny... I never heard that. I was raised mostly Catholic [from my Mom] with a good sized dose of non-denominational Protestant [Dad] with a modicum of Judaism [next-door neighbors] thrown in for good measure. The bible as literal word-of-G_d is new to me.

206 sadhu  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:48:29pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

As a Christian (Roman Catholic) I beleive the Bible to be the very actual word of God, spoken thru Jesus, transcribed to paper and written by men.

which translation?

207 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:49:05pm

re: #201 sattv4u2

I see. So you beleive that ALL Pakistanis and ALL Indonesians are radical muslims (totalling about 306 million people) to offset the LARGER list of countries on that list!?!?!?
Bangladesh 106,050,000
India 103,000,000
Turkey 62,410,000
Iran 60,790,000
Egypt 53,730,000
Nigeria 47,720,000
China 37,108,000

Don't put words in my mouth, you schmuck. My goodness you are tedious.

208 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:49:17pm
209 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:49:32pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

When I typed BIBLE, as a Roman Catholic, I'm speaking of the NEW TESTAMENT

Yet you still manage to be wrong.

Hint: Much of the New Testament was written after Jesus' death and resurrection, and it says so in many of the books! Question: who dictated the book of Romans: Jesus, or the apostle Paul? You fail at bible study. Goodbye.

210 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:49:37pm

re: #160 goddessoftheclassroom

Single, straight, and AFAIK pretty open. He's going to be a prize for some young lady because his mama taught him right. :)

211 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:49:40pm

re: #197 Mich-again

Can't remember where I heard it this morning, but I think it may have been in the majority opinion. Someone was saying that the other two times the words "the right of the people" are mentioned in the Bill of Rights, it refers to individual rights, so why should the second be so very different? It uses the same language.

(First Amendment: "...the right of the people to peaceably assemble...", and Fourth: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures...")

212 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:51:08pm

re: #207 David Simon

Don't put words in my mouth, you schmuck. My goodness you are tedious.

YOU pick 2 countries out of the entire LIST to prove a "point" and I call you on it, but I'M tedious,,,!
And very "progressive' of you to name-call. Perhaps someday we can debate as adults
(geee ,, that didn't even feel good. How do you do it ?)

Priceless!

213 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:51:57pm

re: #209 Lizard by the Bay

written after his death, true. Yet ABOUT his life, words, and teachings

214 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:52:22pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

You can speak for yourself, but you aren't speaking for the Church.

215 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:52:56pm

re: #214 brakes

You can speak for yourself, but you aren't speaking for the Church.

please show me where I ever stated I was doing anything BUT speaking for myself

216 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:56:18pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

"When I typed BIBLE, as a Roman Catholic, I'm speaking of the NEW TESTAMENT.'

217 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:57:13pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

written after his death, true. Yet ABOUT his life, words, and teachings

Which bolsters my point. We all agree that the Bible is written by men. Muslims believe that the Koran is someone taking dictation directly from Allah through Mohammad (as if he were a medium). Therefore, the Koran is, to them, truly the very words of god. If you can't grasp the distinction between the two, I can't help you.

But it explains why there's really no such thing as a "moderate Muslim". There are Muslims, and apostates. Anyone who rejects tenets of the Koran fall into the latter category as far as about 90% of the world's Muslims are concerned. that is why reform is virtually impossible, and exceedingly dangerous to those who dare try.

218 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:57:44pm

re: #216 brakes

"When I typed BIBLE, as a Roman Catholic, I'm speaking of the NEW TESTAMENT.'

correct ,, I am a Roman Catholic. I am not ALL Roman CatholicS

219 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 2:58:07pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

That is not Catholic dogma you are spouting there. By no means. What, did you make up your own Religion?

220 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:00:00pm

re: #219 Mich-again

That is not Catholic dogma you are spouting there. By no means. What, did you make up your own Religion?

I think we have a moonbat troll pretending to be a devout Christian, but who's ass hasn't seen a pew since childhood.

221 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:00:09pm

re: #217 Lizard by the Bay

and how many Muslims do you know that feel that way? (that all non-beleivers are apostates?) How many do you know that do NOT consider themselves "moderate"?

222 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:00:48pm

re: #218 sattv4u2

Nevertheless, you keep trying to put the weight of the Church's teaching behind your ideas; why else do you keep telling us you're a Catholic?

223 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:02:27pm

If only 1% of the Muslims are radical and prone to violence but the other 99% are ambivalent or too afraid to oppose the violent 1%, their majority status does the civilized world no good.

Don't worry about that box of 100 ticking time bombs. Only one of them is real.

224 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:04:12pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

and how many Muslims do you know that feel that way? (that all non-beleivers are apostates?) How many do you know that do NOT consider themselves "moderate"?

Truth be told, most Muslims that I know would describe themselves as moderate. But they do not represent that vast majority of belief in the Muslim world, and they freely admit it!. And there have been scores of polls conducted across the Muslim world which have informed us all, in very clear and unambiguous terms, the way most of the world's Muslims think about their own faith and their duties to it (including wide support for non-peaceful jihad). And the moderates (which to them are worse than infidels) aren't going to influence them one iota.

225 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:04:21pm

re: #222 brakes

Nevertheless, you keep trying to put the weight of the Church's teaching behind your ideas; why else do you keep telling us you're a Catholic?

re: #220 Lizard by the Bay

I "told" you (or whomever it was) that ONCE. It's you (and others) that keep bringing it up.

I will gladly send you my "pedigree" so you can determine when the last time I was in a pew. My e-mail is up

226 CLLRusso  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:05:24pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

I'm a Methodist and it is my understanding that the entire Bible is the word of God as given to and written down by man. In the New Testament Jesus Christ maintains that Torah scripture is the word of God.

227 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:06:02pm

re: #224 Lizard by the Bay

Truth be told, most Muslims that I know would describe themselves as moderate. But they do not represent that vast majority of belief in the Muslim world, and they freely admit it!. And there have been scores of polls conducted across the Muslim world which have informed us all, in very clear and unambiguous terms, the way most of the world's Muslims think about their own faith and their duties to it (including wide support for non-peaceful jihad). And the moderates (which to them are worse than infidels) aren't going to influence them one iota.

linky,,,, because the Muslims I know are 180 degrees of the opposite opinion ( that it is in fact a MINORITY, though vocal and violent)

228 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:06:34pm

re: #226 CLLRusso

I'm a Methodist and it is my understanding that the entire Bible is the word of God as given to and written down by man. In the New Testament Jesus Christ maintains that Torah scripture is the word of God.

Thats EXACTLY what I stated (sorry, I forget which post it was)

229 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:06:37pm

re: #223 Mich-again

If only 1% of the Muslims are radical and prone to violence but the other 99% are ambivalent or too afraid to oppose the violent 1%, their majority status does the civilized world no good.

It's a little closer to 1-3% prone to violence, 80% prone to cheer lead the violence, and perhaps 17-19% who appose it but keep their mouths shut.

230 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:06:39pm
231 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:07:10pm

re: #212 sattv4u2

YOU pick 2 countries out of the entire LIST to prove a "point" and I call you on it,

You haven't "called me" on shit. All you did was make a wildly inaccurate assertion.

232 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:07:35pm

re: #226 CLLRusso

found it ,,, my #195

233 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:08:48pm

re: #231 David Simon

You haven't "called me" on shit. All you did was make a wildly inaccurate assertion.

ahh ,,, you got me ,,,, you're right ,,, you win ,,, I give ,,,,,

(is this where you now type NAH NAH BOO BOO?)

234 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:09:13pm

re: #76 goddessoftheclassroom

Please tell me that you didn't mean to suggest that English teachers are usually moonbats.

Well, I don't mean to paint with too broad a brush, so let me just say that every English teacher I've ever studied under or with, or met socially, as well as every person I've ever known who previously was or subsequently went on to become an English teacher, was a dyed-in-the-wool barking moonbat.

Maybe I've just been "lucky" that way - and certainly no offense intended. If there actually are non-moonbat English teachers out there I am exceedingly pleased to hear it.

235 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:09:24pm

There is a huge difference between the Bible and the Koran.The Bible was drawn up over centuries and centuries. It is a long story of God and the people whose history and literature bear witness to him. It was written down by different, inspired people in different times.
The portrait of God and his purposes is consistent throughout the text as a whole, but they are understood in different contexts at different times.

The Koran, on the other hand, was set down by one man at one time as the fixed word.

236 sadhu  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:10:15pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

first you said this:

written after his death, true. Yet ABOUT his life, words, and teachings

then this:

As a Christian (Roman Catholic) I beleive the Bible to be the very actual word of God, spoken thru Jesus, transcribed to paper and written by men.


I don't understand you.

237 David Simon  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:10:42pm

re: #233 sattv4u2

ahh ,,, you got me ,,,, you're right ,,, you win ,,, I give ,,,,,

(is this where you now type NAH NAH BOO BOO?)

No, this where I put you on scroll past.

238 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:12:08pm

re: #237 David Simon

No, this where I put you on scroll past.

Thank God ! (ooopppss ,,, am I allowed to type GOD ?)

239 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:12:56pm

re: #236 sadhu

first you said this:

I don't understand you.

they are one in the same.

240 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:13:21pm

re: #220 Lizard by the Bay

I think we have a moonbat troll pretending to be a devout Christian, but who's ass hasn't seen a pew since childhood.


I think my denomination (AG) says that the Bible is the inspired word of God. In other words, every person who put pen to paper resulting in the words we call the old or new testaments did so at the prompting of the Spirit of God. They wrote in their own words, but the message was what God wanted them to write--to thier particular audience, at that particular time. Often they were recording [literal] history as accurately as they knew, but often they were recording the songs or teachings of their community, or giving advice to a particular community. Sometimes they were writing the history of what someone said, which was a parable itself. Etc.
Beyond being written, the spirit of God guided the men who chose/recognized the important books to canonize, and the transcribers and translaters who give us what we have today, which is very much accurate to the original, at least compared to samples recovered by archaeology.
This is the most important book in the world, imo, because of the words therein, though it isn't mystical in and of itself, and I would be aghast at rioting because of insults or abuse directed at it.
The other point I'd is that the overall message of God's redemption of man, time and time again, and man's response of loving God and each other, is easy to grasp, however to discern every detail takes study of the context, how the words are used in other areas, the culture of the people recieving that passage, etc. So pulling out one bit and saying, see your God is blood-thirsty too doesn't convince me.

241 CLLRusso  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:13:45pm

re: #230 ploome hineni

Those books actually do not contradict each other but tell essentially the same story from different points of view. At least that is the interpretation of my last Bible study pastor. And I need lots of study! Shamefully, my Israeli guide, a secular Jew, knew more about the scripture of the New Testament than I did! Believe me I am boning up for my next trip to Israel!

242 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:14:43pm

re: #240 nikis-knight

well stated

243 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:15:37pm

re: #240 nikis-knight

Well said.

244 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:15:59pm

re: #209 Lizard by the Bay

Yet you still manage to be wrong.

Hint: Much of the New Testament was written after Jesus' death and resurrection, and it says so in many of the books! Question: who dictated the book of Romans: Jesus, or the apostle Paul? You fail at bible study. Goodbye.

Not so -- I was taught in Sunday school and in college (Baptist college) that the Bible was the literal Word of God, dictated by Jesus, and written by men. Whether you agree with it or not, lots of Christian theologians of all faiths believe not just the New but also the Old Testaments were written by Jesus.

I think you can find info on this if you look up biblical literalism.

245 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:17:35pm

re: #244 kywrite

thank you, but watch out, I said the same thing in my #195 and was ridiculed
(I actually kinda liked it, though! )

LOL

246 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:19:31pm

re: #220 Lizard by the Bay

No, no, no!
sattv4u2 is not a moonbat troll !
He just misspoke miswrote and it didn't come out quite right.
We all do that, so please cut him/us some slack! :)

247 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:19:54pm

re: #240 nikis-knight

re: #241 CLLRusso

re: #244 kywrite

SURE ,,, NOW everyone that kinda-sorta agrees with me shows up,, AFTER I took a beating ! '


LOL

248 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:20:58pm

re: #245 sattv4u2

Oh, phooey on you!
Just after I defended you!
You are naughty, naughty, naughty!

249 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:21:16pm

re: #246 wolfie

thank you ,,,, I wish I could type/ talk as well as I think

250 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:21:52pm

re: #248 wolfie

;)

251 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:23:10pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

"kinda-sorta"

I think there are significant distinctions between what nikis-knight and kywrite are saying.
But why are we fussing about this?

I repeat. You are being naughty.

252 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:23:22pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

It's hard to keep up with threads. And I had a meeting.

As a Christian (Roman Catholic) I beleive the Bible to be the very actual word of God, spoken thru Jesus, transcribed to paper and written by men.

I think people got hung up on "spoken through Jesus", thinking you meant he dictated it all while he was alive or something. Saying that "they were inspired by God to write what they did", or even "...to write exactly what they did" would probably clear up the confusion.

253 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:23:39pm

re: #245 sattv4u2

thank you, but watch out, I said the same thing in my #195 and was ridiculed
(I actually kinda liked it, though! )

LOL

Ah, I can take ridicule. BTW, didn't say I agreed with that interpretation of the Bible and its origin -- just that I myself had been taught that way. 'Snot right to attack people for stating facts.

254 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:23:47pm

re: #250 sattv4u2


:D !

255 sadhu  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:25:13pm

re: #240 nikis-knight

thanks you for clarifying

256 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:26:16pm

re: #252 nikis-knight

It's hard to keep up with threads. And I had a meeting.

I think people got hung up on "spoken through Jesus", thinking you meant he dictated it all while he was alive or something. Saying that "they were inspired by God to write what they did", or even "...to write exactly what they did" would probably clear up the confusion.

Yep. I have a feeling we'd all agree that you are doing the best job of expressing it today! :)

257 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:26:22pm

re: #252 nikis-knight

sorry, you're right. Sometimes I try to shorten what I mean (slow typer, and the person your addressing may be gone before I can get it all out)
HENCE, "spoken thru Jesus" = "they were inspired by God to write what they did",

258 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:27:01pm

I think we've nicely separated the dying threads into science and religion. :P

259 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:27:12pm

re: #256 wolfie

Nikis gets the GOLD STAR today !

260 CLLRusso  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:27:16pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

But we, or at least I, do love you in a Christian sort of way! No one ever said it is easy to be a Christian. For example, I am looking at the imperative of Jesus Christ to love my neighbor when I absolutely despise the bastard! And how do you forgive people that have done bad stuff to you and really don't care if you forgive them or not?

Easier to talk about the Muslims that have been given the way out of doing anything good in nearly every Surah/verse.

261 wolfie  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:27:55pm

Time to put the spaghetti on before the mini-wolves start biting my ankles!

262 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:29:13pm

re: #261 wolfie

Time to put the spaghetti on before the mini-wolves start biting my ankles!

Cya Wolfie ,, and thanks again

263 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:30:06pm

re: #260 CLLRusso

But we, or at least I, do love you in a Christian sort of way! No one ever said it is easy to be a Christian. For example, I am looking at the imperative of Jesus Christ to love my neighbor when I absolutely despise the bastard! And how do you forgive people that have done bad stuff to you and really don't care if you forgive them or not?

Easier to talk about the Muslims that have been given the way out of doing anything good in nearly every Surah/verse.

hell,,, there are days I can hardly stand MYSELF, let alone love a neighbor ((although, the new lady up the street is kinda attractive ! )

264 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:30:18pm
265 Kathleen  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:30:20pm

"If only 1% of the Muslims are radical and prone to violence but the other 99% are ambivalent or too afraid to oppose the violent 1%, their majority status does the civilized world no good.

Don't worry about that box of 100 ticking time bombs. Only one of them is real."

Well put.

266 johnnyreb  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:31:16pm

When you have to say the word "truth" multiple times in an interview, I suspect something other than the "truth" is being taught there. Repeat the lie often enough and it becomes "truth".

Notice the last part of her rant, the part about it's unconstitutional to try and close this school down? This is how they will infiltrate from within, through the courts.

267 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:31:28pm
268 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:31:34pm

re: #265 Kathleen

so find that one and snuff it out!

269 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:32:12pm

re: #267 ploome hineni

so what?

some people belive in kiling chickens

I beleive in killing chickens. Live ones are too hard to eat !

270 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:32:20pm

re: #263 sattv4u2

hell,,, there are days I can hardly stand MYSELF

But no one can be as angry at oneself as this dog is.

271 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:33:22pm

re: #252 nikis-knight

I think people got hung up on "spoken through Jesus", thinking you meant he dictated it all while he was alive or something. Saying that "they were inspired by God to write what they did", or even "...to write exactly what they did" would probably clear up the confusion.

But then he would have to admit that the Muslims treat their holy book and the words it contains differently than Christians, which would wreck the whole false equivalence crap he was originally trying to pull in post #177.

272 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:33:46pm

re: #270 Silhouette

But no one can be as angry at oneself as this dog is.

The Dog With Two Brains (one in his head controlling his mouth, the other in his butt controlling his hind leg !)

273 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:34:42pm

re: #267 ploome hineni

so what?

some people belive in kiling chickens

I believe in outsourcing my chicken killing. But I'd do it myself if neccessary.

274 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:35:44pm

Given the chance, the chickens would kill you too. Don't think they wouldn't. They have it coming.

275 jcbunga  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:36:17pm

Hey!

Where's the fem reporter-ette's head gear? Was she in a skirt and heels?

I'm offended by her provocative dress.

Cue RageBoy!

276 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:36:28pm

re: #271 Lizard by the Bay

question, are there "passages" in the Old and New Testaments that are offensive/ bad/ can be interpretted as violence?

277 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:38:39pm

Oh, and as asked, just a couple of eye opening views of Muslim opinion:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And a look at the mosque situation in the United States (arguably the largest source of the world's "moderate" Muslims):
[Link: www.wnd.com...]

I'll dig up much much more if you'd like. I could play this game all day. There's just too damn much material to work with.

278 CLLRusso  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:40:33pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

Must leave now. Have a great evening everyone.

279 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:41:34pm

re: #267 ploome hineni

so what?

some people belive in kiling chickens

? and what does that have to do with the price of beans in China?

gg

On another note: the Gospel Parallels is a good book to pick up if you're trying to understand what's going on in Matthew Mark Luke and John. It was invaluable when I did Bible study in college.

280 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:42:03pm

re: #278 CLLRusso

Must leave now. Have a great evening everyone.

Cya CLL ,, and thanks

281 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:43:30pm

re: #279 kywrite

I Googled "price of beans in China". Here's what I came up with!

[Link: www.google.com...]

( I need to find a hobby !)

282 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:43:35pm

re: #274 Silhouette

Given the chance, the chickens would kill you too. Don't think they wouldn't. They have it coming.

There was a chicken that hated me as a child. He actually bit a piece out of my calf one day -- snuck up on me.

Payback -- chicken and dumplings. Homemade, Southern-style. Mmmm.

283 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:46:01pm

re: #282 kywrite

Now you've done it ,,, Now I'll have to go forrage for food

284 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:46:16pm

re: #271 Lizard by the Bay

But then he would have to admit that the Muslims treat their holy book and the words it contains differently than Christians, which would wreck the whole false equivalence crap he was originally trying to pull in post #177.

I agree that there are PASSAGES that are bad. But there are PASSAGES in the Old Testament that are bad also.


Well, what I would say here is that, to a modern, enlightened society, which ironically grew out of Christianity, parts of the bible seem barbaric. Many times, such as OT conquests, this is due to the fact that we don't look at the societies the Israelites were invading, cultures that had earned God's wrath due to child sacrifice, etc. We were brutal against Nazis. Other laws that seem wicked were given to a particular people, as an improvement on the surrounding culture and not intended to be for all times. And many are merely historical recitations not intended to be prosricptive examples.
And sections that could seem to advocate (unjust) violence in the Bible pale in comparisson to the Koran, which is taken to be immutible, except by self-abrogation, with the violent parts often cancelling out peaceful parts by long-standing Islamic tradition. This poses a serious challenge to Islamic reform that was never faced by Christianity, which is why crusades were a response to jihad (except when they were a corrupt temporal power grab) rather than vice versa, and why murder and torture in the name of Christ was, while regretable, not so frequent and long since ended and apoligized for.

285 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:46:35pm

re: #277 Lizard by the Bay

How about

About 1 in 4 young adult American Muslims says suicide bombings against civilian targets "to defend Islam" can be justified rarely, sometimes or often

Just 25% of a million or so of our neighbors.

286 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:47:24pm

re: #276 sattv4u2

question, are there "passages" in the Old and New Testaments that are offensive/ bad/ can be interpretted as violence?

Instead, let's play a game of "Spot the Difference". Both religions tell their believers to model their lives after the principle prophet. One faith's prophet was known for turning the other cheek, loving his enemies, healing the sick, and ministering to the outcasts, and the other was known for slaughtering entire tribes, taking slaves, raping children, breaking treaties, etc...

Now, which faith might produce more violent followers, and might be much harder to reform. Take your time. Take all day if you have to.

The problem isn't Muslims. The problem is Islam because the problem is Mohammad himself! You just can't take Mohammad out of Islam, no matter how hard you try. Do you get it yet? You can't polish a turd.

287 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:47:28pm
288 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:50:26pm

re: #286 Lizard by the Bay

No ,, "INSTEAD" could you please answer my question?

289 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:51:54pm
290 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:52:27pm
291 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:53:20pm

re: #288 sattv4u2

No ,, "INSTEAD" could you please answer my question?

Your "question" is an attempt to equate Islam with Christianity (or at the very least the Bible with the Koran). I'm not playing your reindeer games. As I've shown beyond any reasonable doubt in post #286, there just is no equivalence.

OWNED.

292 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:54:32pm

re: #291 Lizard by the Bay

Your "question" is an attempt to equate Islam with Christianity (or at the very least the Bible with the Koran). I'm not playing your reindeer games. As I've shown beyond any reasonable doubt in post #286, there just is no equivalence.

OWNED.

no ,, my question is an attempt to see if you recognize that there are offensive (to me, at least) passages in the new and old testaments

293 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:55:13pm

re: #290 ploome hineni

sticky typeboard

i don;t EVEN want to know !

(j/k)

294 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:55:51pm

What is an example of an offensive NT passage? Generalizations only work with examples.

295 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:57:14pm

re: #289 ploome hineni

EXODUS 21:17,, And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death,,
Is it in there? Yes ,,, do Jews follow it? Not that I'm aware of !

296 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:58:08pm

re: #287 ploome hineni

Heck, we can set aside the argument of whether the 25% are reading the text correctly and the 75% apostate, or vice versa. Either way, at least a quarter of a million people in my country admit to wanting to kill me. And I find that, uh, worrisome

But their leaders/apologists tell us they probably weren't thinking about blowing up people in the West. They probably just meant Israel. Which the leaders clearly think isn't as bad, or that we will think isn't as bad. Bloody scum.

Several American Muslim leaders said survey respondents, particularly those 18 to 29, were probably thinking about foreign policy and Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation -- and do not support attacks such as the Sept. 11 hijackings or the train bombings in London and Madrid.
297 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:58:09pm

re: #289 ploome hineni

huh... Avatars are really small here... only by clicking on yours do I see it is a guy with a fountain pen. Before I thought it was a crucifix!

298 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:58:14pm

re: #294 nikis-knight

MATTHEW, 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword.

299 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:59:01pm

re: #294 nikis-knight

LUKE ,, 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

300 neoconkat  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:59:33pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

As a Catholic myself (albeit lapse Catholic) I have never once, even throughout my entire schooling (private Catholic schools), heard a Catholic refer to themselves just as christian, rather instead just by the title "catholic". I mean there are fundamental differences between the two, as well as that love-hate division that exsists between the two (protestant/christian & catholic). Perhaps it was just the enviroment I was raised, but still, it feels so foreign to see that.

301 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 3:59:40pm
no ,, my question is an attempt to see if you recognize that there are offensive (to me, at least) passages in the new and old testaments

Which would prove what exactly? And how would it apply to Islam? You keep thinking of Islam as just one more religion existing in a secular world. That's just not how it is. Islam is a culture, a system of government, a set of immutable laws, and it leaves no room for anything that is not Islam!

302 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:00:56pm

re: #294 nikis-knight

and one from LUKE that I tried on my wife ! -- 20:34-35 You have a better chance of getting to heaven if you don't get married

303 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:02:31pm

re: #298 sattv4u2

MATTHEW, 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword.

Leaving aside my like of swords, Jesus was cautioning hard times for his followers. Since this is the same man who said turn the other cheeck, blessed are the peacemakers, and go the extra mile (for the invading Roman non-believers) I can't possibly read that to go killing. Maybe he means he will bring conflict, or maybe that his followers will be slain?

LUKE ,, 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

I take it Jesus said that? I don't recall it, I will check later.

304 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:03:02pm

re: #300 neoconkat

Somewhat agreed. It has only been in the last 10 years or so (I'm 53) that any Catholic Church that I have ever gone too used "Christain" anywhere. Now, the preists ate my church use 'we as Christians,,,,,blah blah blah" often

305 nikis-knight  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:04:14pm

re: #302 sattv4u2

and one from LUKE that I tried on my wife ! -- 20:34-35 You have a better chance of getting to heaven if you don't get married

Paul said something similar; it is a statement I don't find to be true, myself, so it is hard to interpret. Either way, time to leave. Have a good night.

306 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:04:28pm

re: #244 kywrite

Not so -- I was taught in Sunday school and in college (Baptist college) that the Bible was the literal Word of God, dictated by Jesus, and written by men. Whether you agree with it or not, lots of Christian theologians of all faiths believe not just the New but also the Old Testaments were written by Jesus.

You should have asked that school for a refund.

307 Silhouette  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:04:36pm

re: #299 sattv4u2

You do know that Jesus is telling a story about a king, and the king in the story says that, right?

308 brakes  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:05:11pm

re: #303 nikis-knight

The Luke quote was from a parable. He's taking quotes out of context because he's enjoying the attention.

309 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:05:40pm

re: #301 Lizard by the Bay

Which would prove what exactly? And how would it apply to Islam? You keep thinking of Islam as just one more religion existing in a secular world. That's just not how it is. Islam is a culture, a system of government, a set of immutable laws, and it leaves no room for anything that is not Islam!

lemme check ,, is there an answer to my question in there somewhere? Lets see ,,, ummm,, no,,,not in that sentence ,,,, nope, not that one either ,,,, ummm,,,,nuh uh ,,, don't see one ,, thanks ,,,
(or in your words ,,, "OWNED",,, )

310 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:06:07pm
311 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:06:23pm

re: #307 Silhouette

yuppers

312 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:06:59pm
313 neoconkat  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:07:41pm

re: #304 sattv4u2

Well its good to know that I'm not insane then, thought maybe I had missed something these last 22 years, well perhaps I did since you say its been in the last 10. I always thought Catholic was getting soft around the edges, guess they took another step. Bring back the fire and brimstone, not the touchy feely new-protestant stuff.

314 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:07:44pm

re: #310 ploome hineni

I was chastised earlier for not seperating the OLD and NEW testaments, referring to "them" togther. You'll have to take it up with the person that scolded me!

315 mean Gene  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:08:18pm

I think my favorite part was this:

Kate Schneider, English teacher:
The thing that frustrates me so much about these accusations is that first, they are not true, and second, it is so completely opposite from the truth.

Were there TWO things here?
Either/or logic even eludes these guys!
Also, hey! English teacher!
How about a little subject/verb agreement?
Is.....are....make up your mind!
BTW, the correct answer is "are."
But since both of the either and the or are the SAME why have them both at all?

316 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:08:21pm

re: #313 neoconkat

Well its good to know that I'm not insane then, thought maybe I had missed something these last 22 years, well perhaps I did since you say its been in the last 10. I always thought Catholic was getting soft around the edges, guess they took another step. Bring back the fire and brimstone, not the touchy feely new-protestant stuff.

BINGO ,,,,,,,, (hehehehe)

317 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:12:09pm

re: #308 brakes

The Luke quote was from a parable. He's taking quotes out of context because he's enjoying the attention.

Agreed. I was going to say the same but you beat me to it.

The most important 3 lessons in reading scriptures are:
Context
Context and
Context

318 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:12:29pm

re: #309 sattv4u2

Fine, I'll play. Yes, there are passages in the bible that today are offensive and barbaric. Now you can answer ALL of my questions you've been ducking, like "What does that prove?", "How does it apply to Islam?", and "Can you spot the inherent differences between a religion that asks you to model your life after Christ or one that demands you mimic Mohammad?"

There. Three simple questions.

319 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:12:53pm

re: #306 Lizard by the Bay

You should have asked that school for a refund.

Dude, it's a point of view. I recognized it then, I recognize it now.

I try to read religious texts from all religions and judge them on their merits. There are a million paths to Heaven, not just one, and your personal choices are what determine whether you get there, not your religion, the religious book you choose to follow, how you choose to think that book originated, or whether you kneel to God in the presence of an imam or a priest.

To be honest I don't know why I'm still talking; those who will listen, have, but others have chosen to harden their hearts, and heads, against words that may shake up their personal worldviews. That's okay, it's your choice. But I feel like I'm talking into a cave here -- words just get distorted and echoed back at me.

320 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:14:21pm
321 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:14:46pm

re: #319 kywrite

Dude, it's a point of view. I recognized it then, I recognize it now.

I try to read religious texts from all religions and judge them on their merits. There are a million paths to Heaven, not just one, and your personal choices are what determine whether you get there, not your religion, the religious book you choose to follow, how you choose to think that book originated, or whether you kneel to God in the presence of an imam or a priest.

To be honest I don't know why I'm still talking; those who will listen, have, but others have chosen to harden their hearts, and heads, against words that may shake up their personal worldviews. That's okay, it's your choice. But I feel like I'm talking into a cave here -- words just get distorted and echoed back at me.

Crap, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. NO ONE come to the Father but through Me"

There is only One Way to Heaven. He said it, you had better believe it.

322 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:16:02pm

re: #318 Lizard by the Bay

Fine, I'll play. Yes, there are passages in the bible that today are offensive and barbaric. Now you can answer ALL of my questions you've been ducking, like "What does that prove?",

323 stevieray  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:16:05pm

re: #308 brakes

The Luke quote was from a parable. He's taking quotes out of context because he's enjoying the attention.

He'd fit right in on the Canadian HRC. That's what they tried to do to Mark Steyn with the "...breed like mosquitoes..." quote. Major league dishonesty.

324 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:16:35pm

PIMF, Light should be Life

325 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:17:18pm

re: #321 A Kiwi Infidel

Crap, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. NO ONE come to the Father but through Me"

There is only One Way to Heaven. He said it, you had better believe it.

You have to CHOOSE to believe that. I don't. I can't.

And I'm totally at peace with it.

/"you'd better" is perhaps not the greatest conversion verbiage.

326 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:18:47pm

re: #318 Lizard by the Bay

Fine, I'll play. Yes, there are passages in the bible that today are offensive and barbaric. Now you can answer ALL of my questions you've been ducking, like "What does that prove?", "How does it apply to Islam?", and "Can you spot the inherent differences between a religion that asks you to model your life after Christ or one that demands you mimic Mohammad?"

There. Three simple questions.

nothing
no
yes, thats why I'm a Catholic by choice, not a Muslim/ Hindu/ Jew/ Amish/ Athiest/ 7th Day Adventist/ Mormon/ Baha'i/ Shinto/ Scientologist/ ,,,,,,,

327 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:19:54pm

re: #325 kywrite

You have to CHOOSE to believe that. I don't. I can't.

And I'm totally at peace with it.

/"you'd better" is perhaps not the greatest conversion verbiage.

I have a 13 year old son that reminds me of that !

328 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:20:47pm

re: #325 kywrite


I read a testimony from Paul Proctor, he told his buddy years ago that he was going to Hell. Not good conversion Verbiage, as you would say.

BUT, that comment nagged at his buddy for years until he decided to seek the face of the Lord and found salavtion in Jesus.

Funny how a comment, that may be offensive, actually is the one that gets a person thinking.

329 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:21:57pm

Its Friday, PIMF salavtion= salvation

330 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:22:09pm

re: #328 A Kiwi Infidel

Who's Paul Proctor? That's my maiden name -- and there are quite a few preachers in the tree.

331 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:22:35pm

re: #326 sattv4u2

Then why can't you admit that it is Islam itself, and not a "few extremists who have hijacked the religion", that is the problem? Because what I've been trying to show you is that those "extremists" are Islam's mainstream, and their marching orders come from and absolute immutable text which has but one interpretation.

Feel free to disagree with me, but I promise you that you are doing so at your own risk. The worldwide jihad isn't going away any time soon, and being an ostrich won't save you.

332 missouri boy  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:22:36pm

re: #320 ploome hineni

most ignorant people are unable to read the BIble in anthing other than a very concrete and narrow way

Well said Ploome

333 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:22:49pm

re: #329 A Kiwi Infidel

Its Friday, PIMF salavtion= salvation

(ahem, thursday. . . but that's okay. . . )

334 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:23:50pm

re: #333 kywrite

Oh, wait -- you really are a Kiwi! Nemmind.

335 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:24:45pm

re: #329 A Kiwi Infidel

re: #333 kywrite

(ahem, thursday. . . but that's okay. . . )

I say we make it Friday ,, DRINK !

336 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:24:45pm

re: #327 sattv4u2

I have a 13 year old son that reminds me of that !

Me too!

337 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:26:06pm

re: #330 kywrite

Who's Paul Proctor? That's my maiden name -- and there are quite a few preachers in the tree.

Here ya go.

338 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:26:46pm

re: #336 kywrite

Me too!

He's our one and only (we started late. he was born when I was 40!)
He's going thru a phase right now (I hope)! Does it pass quickly and get easier?

339 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:28:20pm

re: #331 Lizard by the Bay

I have to get going. Next we meet, I will explain my "worldwide view" of Islam, and sorry, no, I do NOT beleive that the "radicals" are the mainstream. But I will expand on that next we "meet"

340 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:31:14pm

re: #338 sattv4u2

He's our one and only (we started late. he was born when I was 40!)
He's going thru a phase right now (I hope)! Does it pass quickly and get easier?

No. Sorry. The brains may return at age 17, if you're lucky. Earplugs help.

I have four: my 20-y-o Marine mentioned above, my 13 & 11 yr old sons, and my baby girl, nearly 10 months now. So I guess I started early and am finishing late? (I'm forty now.)

341 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:31:51pm
342 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:33:56pm

re: #340 kywrite

No. Sorry. The brains may return at age 17, if you're lucky. Earplugs help.

I have four: my 20-y-o Marine mentioned above, my 13 & 11 yr old sons, and my baby girl, nearly 10 months now. So I guess I started early and am finishing late? (I'm forty now.)

Oh ,, there's nothing wrong with his "brains" (straight "A" student,,, 1/2 athletic 1/2 academic scholarship to a private high school this coming school year,,, )

All of a sudden, he argues with us about E V E R Y T H I N G!

343 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:34:22pm

re: #340 kywrite

and thank you and you're 20 y/o for his service ,, God Speed

344 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:34:35pm

re: #337 A Kiwi Infidel

Busy guy. Interestingly, a definite possible family resemblance. And scarily, some resemblance to my husband too (the nose), and he also has Proctors close by in his tree.

/Oh no, did I just braid my genes? Well, we are from Ky . . .

345 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:35:20pm

re: #339 sattv4u2

Fair enough. And thank you for some spirited debate. Helps clear the cobwebs.

346 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:35:51pm

re: #340 kywrite

No. Sorry. The brains may return at age 17, if you're lucky. Earplugs help.

I have four: my 20-y-o Marine mentioned above, my 13 & 11 yr old sons, and my baby girl, nearly 10 months now. So I guess I started early and am finishing late? (I'm forty now.)


A wee joke?

A 3 year old boy is in the bath and his mum (thats mom to you Americans) is washing his back. The lad is playing with his testicles and asks mum "Are these my brains?"

"Not yet" says mum.

347 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:36:06pm

re: #345 Lizard by the Bay

Fair enough. And thank you for some spirited debate. Helps clear the cobwebs.

sure ,,,, now what to do with all the spiders !?!?!?!?!?

348 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:36:58pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

sure ,,,, now what to do with all the spiders !?!?!?!?!?


Spiders are our friends.

349 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:37:08pm

re: #346 A Kiwi Infidel

A wee joke?

A 3 year old boy is in the bath and his mum (thats mom to you Americans) is washing his back. The lad is playing with his testicles and asks mum "Are these my brains?"

"Not yet" says mum.

he's slow ,,, I started at 1 1/2 ,,,, ! ( oooopppsss ,,, did I type that out loud ?)

350 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:37:13pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

sure ,,,, now what to do with all the spiders !?!?!?!?!?

Ignore them. They don't eat much.

351 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:37:31pm

re: #346 A Kiwi Infidel

LOLOL! Now my head hurts!

Tx!

352 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:38:25pm

re: #350 Lizard by the Bay

Ignore them. They don't eat much.

sez you !

[Link: www.awfulgames.com...]

353 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:38:34pm

re: #349 sattv4u2


I changed the age for literacy reasons. He may well have been playing with them for years but not had the words to ask the question. Ha!

354 kywrite  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:39:07pm

re: #342 sattv4u2

Oh ,, there's nothing wrong with his "brains" (straight "A" student,,, 1/2 athletic 1/2 academic scholarship to a private high school this coming school year,,, )

All of a sudden, he argues with us about E V E R Y T H I N G!

He's cussing behind your back, too. Listen for it.

;)

Smarts and brains aren't the same thing in my world. I was a Merit Scholar, and often dumb as a post as a teen.

355 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:41:04pm

re: #354 kywrite

thanks ,,, noted ,,

ALL , till next time

356 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:41:11pm

There's nobody in the world "smarter" than a well educated person with no experience, at least according to themselves.

357 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:42:32pm

After we get all good and "educated" in our teens and early twenties, it takes a few years of life (perhaps a few decades in some cases) to teach us that we actually don't know shit. Then we become truly smart.

358 missouri boy  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 4:44:18pm
(whose textbooks were revealed to be teaching hatred of non-Muslims).

iSLam textbooks teach hatred? Who knew.
/
iSLam *spit*

359 sparrowlake  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 5:06:39pm
This child recites verses from the Koran with perfect diction, even though he is only six years old. These flowers, which have just begun to bloom, have sprouted on American soil.

First killer bees, then zebra mussels, and now...
BIG INVASIVE SPECIES ARE RIPPING US OFF.

360 ypnxjkb  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 6:17:18pm

Yeah you dirty infidel son of pigs, and tell that woman to get a head scarf on before me and my buddy's rape her for turning us on with that overtly sexual display of her hair. ALLAH AKBAR, PASS THE VASELINE.

361 jenv  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 7:08:19pm

re: #177 sattv4u2

I agree that there are PASSAGES that are bad. But there are PASSAGES in the Old Testament that are bad also. The problem as I stated is that RADICAL Mulsims interpret the "bad passages" ver batem


Quranic literalism is not an invention of the "radicals". It is standard for all orthodox Islamic sects. Also, look up "abrogation" and its application to Quranic interpretation.

362 kristina37  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 8:53:48pm

Don't know if this link been posted yet...? This TV program was a while back, but reveals what was being taught in a Saudi-funded school in the U.K: UK Islamic School (King Fahd Academy). More pigs and monkeys stuff...

(Btw, one of the most interesting parts of the video are the denials by the director of the academy...taqiyya in action-- it is very obvious she is lying!)

363 Student of Objectivism  Thu, Jun 26, 2008 10:21:21pm

NOTHING says hostile like millions of dollars to Muslims in Hamasistan and elections, states, sewers, schools, and electricity to Iraqis!

364 Pass The Moonbaticide  Fri, Jun 27, 2008 7:20:20am
This pressure is exerted by several Congressmen, known for their great hostility towards Arabs and Muslims.

Count me amongst their number.
(not that I'm a US Congressman, of course)

You think I'm going to sing 'Kumbayah' with those who would gladly detach my head from my shoulders because I won't bow to their wretched 'god' ?
Friggin' crybabies want it all and won't rest untill they have it.

365 LemonJoose  Fri, Jun 27, 2008 3:55:53pm

Cry me a river. Boo hoo.

I might consider giving a crap what kind of monitoring and regulations we place on Saudi Islamic madrassas, the day that Saudi Arabia even allows a Christian or Jewish school to be established in Saudi Arabia.

366 hellosnackbar  Sun, Jun 29, 2008 9:31:59am

The debate as to whether moderate muslims should be grouped with their more extreme co -religionists is an ongoing bore that we are confronted with on a daily basis.
The fact is that the zealots are supported by the koran verses.
This means that the koran is a book of violent sedition which substantiates the actions of its mad adherents.
The moderates have no ideological basis.
It would seem prudent to treat the koran with the same contempt as "mein kampf"and that the moderates should either moderate their unholy
book or dump the death cult euphemistically described as a religion.


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