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The Discovery Institute's 'Wedge Strategy'

Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:09:45 pm PDT

This is important background information on the Discovery Institute, the main hub of the repackaged creationism that’s been dubbed “intelligent design.” The Wedge Strategy is an internal Discovery Institute memo never intended to be released to the public, that was leaked to the Internet in 1999. It spells out their long term plan to “defeat materialism” and science (represented especially by the theory of evolution) and replace it with fundamentalist, evangelical Protestant theism.

The Wikipedia page correlates a lot of the sources and has statements from both scientific critics and “intelligent design” spokesmen: Wedge strategy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The full text of the Wedge Strategy document is posted on the web here: The Wedge Strategy - Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture.

And here’s a fascinating, detailed look behind the scenes at the Discovery Institute’s promotion of the stealth creationist bill just signed into law by Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal: The Discovery Institute, the LA Family Forum, and the “LA Science Education Act.”

This paragraph is especially pertinent, in light of recent LGF slugfests.

Creationists are always forced to morph into something less recognizable — and, they hope, less legally vulnerable — after losses in federal court. “Creation science” had morphed into “intelligent design” after the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1987 Edwards v. Aguillard ruling barred public schools from teaching it. However, after Kitzmiller, that term, too, is legally dangerous, so DI had to disguise its efforts yet again. Consequently, “intelligent design” creationists now shroud ID in multiple alternative identities: “critical analysis of evolution,” “teaching the controversy,” teaching the “strengths and weaknesses of evolution,” “evidence for and against evolution,” and, in the form of legislation in Louisiana and five other states this year, “academic freedom.” These code terms are instantly recognized by DI’s supporters as announcements of creationist initiatives. However, the local foot soldiers cannot be relied on to stick to the DI terminological playbook. Early in the effort, Sen. Nevers candidly told a reporter that he introduced the legislation on behalf of the LFF because “they believe that scientific data related to creationism should be discussed when dealing with Darwin’s theory.” (emphasis added) After some quick spinning for the media (and probably some additional coaching), Nevers got back on message.

The Discovery Institute has posted a reply to the controversy over the Wedge Strategy: CSC - The ‘Wedge Document’: So What?

The first word in their statement is a typo. It’s been there for years.

Conspircay theorists in the media continue to recycle the urban legend of the “Wedge” document, which Discovery Institute has responded to in the past, in detail.

UPDATE at 6/29/08 8:20:13 am:

I’m glad to report that they finally fixed the typo.

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1173 comments

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1 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:10:52pm

They are trying to give us a wedgie.

2 uncleFuzzy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:12:35pm

I have my own 'wedge strategy'. That's why I went to boxers in college.

3 Macker  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:12:37pm

re: #1 Shug

They are trying to give us a wedgie.

Robin [smacks fist]: Holy Wedgies, Batman!
Batman: That's right, chum.

4 Shay4l  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:15:17pm

Ack! ID thread

See y'all later or tomorrow

5 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:15:39pm
Creation science” had morphed into “intelligent design”

I prefer the term evolved

6 ContraJihadi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:18:32pm

I am not especially fond of Karl Marx either, but regressing to pre-Kantian dogmatism is not the way to combat Marxism.

Yes, there is quite an agenda in this Wedge, far more than relates to the purported scientific issues.

7 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:18:44pm

Here's some more background information:

Phillip Johnson (he's also an AIDS denialist)
Theistic realism

He (Johnson) criticizes those who accept the understanding of the material world that is presented by methodological naturalism yet still express faith that God exists. Their reasoning draws a dichotomy between faith and science that Johnson considers to be irrational.

8 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:19:07pm

Call me when they take over California or New York.

/this is hardly a threat to our national education system

9 Gordon Marock  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:20:11pm

It is super simple. If you want your kids to leard about ID, send them to a religious school or home school them. I attended a private Jesuit High School, where our Biology class was taught by a teacher who stood directly beneath a crucifix. ID was never mentioned in biology, but Drosophila were mentioned and studied. We had some wild free ranging discussions in religion class, but there was no overlap. ID is not science, and never will be. If you cannot come to grips with the fact that death may be followed by eternal oblivion, don't go to science class. Full stop.

10 Syrah  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:20:53pm

re: #5 Shug

I prefer the term evolved

Maybe devolved would be better.

11 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:21:09pm
The Discovery Institute has posted a reply to the controversy over the Wedge Strategy: CSC - The ‘Wedge Document’: So What?

Isn't it just the height of intellectual discourse to shrug your shoulders and say "so what?" These people are supposed to be intelligent- yet the best defense they have is "so what?" LAME.

12 victor_yugo  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:22:01pm

Cue the shoutfest.

13 CyanSnowHawk  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:22:36pm

re: #8 Killian Bundy

Call me when they take over California or New York.

/this is hardly a threat to our national education system

Not yet it isn't, but that is what the wedge is all about. What we could really use is a wedge against the socialist indoctrination that's going on.

14 psyop  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:23:17pm

re: #5 Shug

LOL!

*spit take*

15 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:23:26pm

re: #10 Syrah

Maybe devolved would be better.


Mutated without a net change in total DNA

16 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:24:09pm

re: #13 CyanSnowHawk

Not yet it isn't

/and it never will be

17 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:24:30pm

Letsss get ready to Ruuuuuuuummble!

18 ContraJihadi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:24:56pm

My cat is meowing for dinner.

Be brave, lizards.

19 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:25:59pm

re: #18 ContraJihadi

My cat is meowing for dinner.

Be brave, lizards.

Yeah, cats eat lizards!

20 Gordon Marock  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:26:00pm

I remember a great discussion in my High School religion class about Trans-substantiation. It went like this:

Me: Can you perform communion with Jack Daniels and Twinkies instead of bread and wine?

teacher: No.

Me: Doesn't that simply place a limit on the molecular structures that the spirit of God can enter into?

teacher: OK, fine, you can use Jack Daniels and Twinkies if that is all you can get ahold of. Next question.

21 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:26:23pm
22 psyop  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:27:40pm

This kind of thing is one of the many reasons we need charter schools, and overall school choice.

If you want to teach your kids "ID", or perhaps anthropogenic global warming, or whatever, send them to a school that adheres to that curriculum.

If no such school exists, please, teach your kids what is important to you.

23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:27:52pm
The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.

- Saint Thomas Aquinas

24 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:28:33pm

Conspircay!

25 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:29:09pm

I admire those who are trying to raise people's awareness of this. Even following the discussions in LGF Spy can be grueling.

26 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:29:55pm
Phase I is the essential component of everything that comes afterward. Without solid scholarship, research and argument, the project would be just another attempt to indoctrinate instead of persuade. A lesson we have learned from the history of science is that it is unnecessary to outnumber the opposing establishment. Scientific revolutions are usually staged by an initially small and relatively young group of scientists who are not blinded by the prevailing prejudices and who are able to do creative work at the pressure points, that is, on those critical issues upon which whole systems of thought hinge. So, in Phase I we are supporting vital witting and research at the sites most likely to crack the materialist edifice.

Phase II. The pnmary purpose of Phase II is to prepare the popular reception of our ideas. The best and truest research can languish unread and unused unless it is properly publicized. For this reason we seek to cultivate and convince influential individuals in pnnt and broadcast media, as well as think tank leaders, scientists and academics, congressional staff, talk show hosts, college and seminary presidents and faculty, future talent and potential academic allies. Because of his long tenure in politics, journalism and public policy, Discovery President Bruce Chapman brings to the project rare knowledge and acquaintance of key op-ed writers, journalists, and political leaders. This combination of scientific and scholarly expertise and media and political connections makes the Wedge unique, and also prevents it from being "merely academic." Other activities include production of a PBS documentary on intelligent design and its implications, and popular op-ed publishing. Alongside a focus on influential opinion-makers, we also seek to build up a popular base of support among our natural constituency, namely, Chnstians. We will do this primarily through apologetics seminars. We intend these to encourage and equip believers with new scientific evidence's that support the faith, as well as to "popularize" our ideas in the broader culture.

Phase III. Once our research and writing have had time to mature, and the public prepared for the reception of design theory, we will move toward direct confrontation with the advocates of materialist science through challenge conferences in significant academic settings. We will also pursue possible legal assistance in response to resistance to the integration of design theory into public school science curricula. The attention, publicity, and influence of design theory should draw scientific materialists into open debate with design theorists, and we will be ready. With an added emphasis to the social sciences and humanities, we will begin to address the specific social consequences of materialism and the Darwinist theory that supports it in the sciences.

I love how they even foresee needing to use the courts to foist this on the schools, yet it's the anti-IDers who are accused of using leftist tactics and activism with the courts.

27 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:29:57pm

There's no room for discussion when your version of the truth is the only one.

Does that sound familiar?

The truth is not negotiable. It is.

28 Syrah  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:30:10pm

re: #15 Shug

Mutated without a net change in total DNA

Mutated would work too.

29 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:32:04pm

The following is an excerpt from Neil Shubin's book Your Inner Fish: "In the midst of the press hubbub, my son's preschool teacher asked me to bring in the fossil and describe it. I dutifully brought a cast of Tiktaalik into Nathaniel's class, bracing myself for the chaos that would ensue. The twenty four- and five-year-olds were surprisingly well behaved as I described how we had worked in the Arctic to find the fossil and showed them the animal's sharp teeth. Then I asked what they thought it was. Hands shot up. The first child said it was a crocodile or an alligator. When queried why, he said that like a crocodile or lizard it has a flat head with eyes on top. Big teeth, too. Other children started to voice their dissent. Choosing the raised hand of one of these kids, I heard: No, no, it isn't a crocodile, it is a fish, because it has scales and fins. Yet another child shouted, "Maybe it is both." Tiktaalik's message is so straightforward even preschoolers can see it."

The only excuse that can be accepted for a non-scientific argument against evolution is a person who takes, on faith, the belief that the world is 10,000 to 5,000 years old to be true. Even then, ask someone to explain why there aren't hundreds of examples of modern species being fossilized next to "allegedly" ancient species. Why is there no evidence of man walking alongside velociraptors and the diplodicus?

Here's your out, if you ever feel a bit sheepish about your insistance that observable facts are wrong, citing faith as your only evidence: God intelligently designed a system that scientists recognize as evolution.

30 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:32:19pm

Comparisons to DKos in 5...4...3...

31 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:32:49pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

I admire those who are trying to raise people's awareness of this. Even following the discussions in LGF Spy can be grueling.

I realized that I hadn't posted a thread about the Wedge Strategy yet, even though it really is an important source document to understand the forces at work behind this whole brouhaha.

32 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:33:16pm
33 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:33:28pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

- Saint Thomas Aquinas

Excellent!

The wedge is a dogma that won't hunt.

34 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:34:48pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Conspircay!

Theory.

35 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:35:25pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thank you.

36 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:37:31pm

I grabbed that Schwinn Voyageur, by the way. Disc brakes and everything for about $200. It ain't the lightest bike, but it's good for errands where it doesn't make sense to take the road bike with the shoes and the clothes, etc.

/flipping the bird to saudi arabia, one grocery trip at a time

37 solomonpanting  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:38:11pm

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

38 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:38:21pm

re: #13 CyanSnowHawk

Not yet it isn't, but that is what the wedge is all about. What we could really use is a wedge against the socialist indoctrination that's going on.

Which is vastly more insidious, far-reaching, and damaging than anything Creationists have been able to muster, or will.

Typo? You ought to see some of the emails I receive from professors.

39 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:38:51pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.

-St. Augustine

40 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:38:55pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

/and it never will be

It has been in the past. The banning of the teaching of evolution the 1910s and 1920s led to the US falling behind in science by the 1950s. Only the Soviet launch of Sputnik reversed that.

41 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:39:26pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

Because that's the way God wanted it!
/

42 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:39:26pm
to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions

*bonk*

43 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:39:27pm

re: #29 DeathtotheSwiss

"Why is there no evidence of man walking alongside velociraptors and the diplodicus?"

What do you mean? There's evidence:
[Link: www.petesmoviepage.com...]

44 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:40:09pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

The answer is simple - apologies to George - we didn't evolve from monkeys or apes. We evolved from ape-like creatures, the primate strain that eventually became Homo Sapiens.

45 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:40:16pm

Here is a song about evolution that explains it all. For this Saturday night thread.....

46 finallyalizard  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:40:26pm

i used to check this blog out to see what was really going on, now I just check in to see how many ID vs. Evo stories Charles is posting. It has really turned into a fun site...YEAH! And yes i expect plenty of "reds" especially from the lizards that live on Charles's nutsack, have fun boys and girls.

47 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:40:40pm

re: #43 MJ

"Why is there no evidence of man walking alongside velociraptors and the diplodicus?"

What do you mean? There's evidence:
[Link: www.petesmoviepage.com...]

Convinced me..... doesn't the T-Rex get indigestion on a diet of humans?

48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:40:59pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

Why would we have different species at all then? Wouldn't one single type of life form make more sense? Or maybe different species found different survival mechanisms in adapting to their habitat.

49 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:41:04pm

Classy creationist!

50 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:41:12pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

i used to check this blog out to see what was really going on, now I just check in to see how many ID vs. Evo stories Charles is posting. It has really turned into a fun site...YEAH! And yes i expect plenty of "reds" especially from the lizards that live on Charles's nutsack, have fun boys and girls.

Buh-bye!

51 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:41:43pm

Usually they just send that stuff in email.

52 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:42:10pm

re: #40 Honorary Yooper

It has been in the past.

So has the gold standard.

/something else that's not making a comeback in this country

53 Gordon Marock  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:42:11pm

Okay, look. I have rethought my entire position on this issue, because, you know, if science is , like, true, then one day time machines would be invented, so, like, why haven't any time travellers visited us yet?

54 Maximu§  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:42:29pm

I'll just stay outta this one. This Roman Catholic ends up making too many enemies when I speak out, but I'll light a candle for all lgf members in mass tomarrow and I think God does smile down on this website.

55 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:42:54pm

This always gets so nutty. The Creationists fight like they are taking incoming motrars.
Evolution does not defeat God. Did Darwin have it exactly right?
Probably not. If Jaques Coosteau had invented SCUBA gear earlier , Darwin would have been able to view the underwater world.
That might have changed some things, but not the basic concept.
If you have a cat, why? But notice that it does not have saber teeth.

56 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:43:08pm

Wedge:

nature and hurnan beings are created by God

There are "hurnan" beings, too? O wonder!

57 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:43:17pm

re: #54 Maximu§

Your Church supports the teachings of evolution, btw.

58 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:43:20pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

finallyalizard is nolongeralizard.

59 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:43:23pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

i used to check this blog out to see what was really going on, now I just check in to see how many ID vs. Evo stories Charles is posting. It has really turned into a fun site...YEAH! And yes i expect plenty of "reds" especially from the lizards that live on Charles's nutsack, have fun boys and girls.

Are you talking about this one? Or the one behind it?

60 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:44:21pm

I have lizards on my nutsack?

61 CyanSnowHawk  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:44:27pm

re: #38 Globular Cluster

Which is vastly more insidious, far-reaching, and damaging than anything Creationists have been able to muster, or will.

Typo? You ought to see some of the emails I receive from professors.

I'm an engineer. Some of the correspondence I get from my coworkers is, disheartening. It's not lolspeak yet, but it is evolving into it.

62 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:44:54pm

re: #53 Gordon Marock

Okay, look. I have rethought my entire position on this issue, because, you know, if science is , like, true, then one day time machines would be invented, so, like, why haven't any time travellers visited us yet?

My return trip is scheduled for tomorrow... uh or was it yesterday, ahhh, let me check the schedule.

63 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:34pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

can you change your name to finallybooted?

64 Salamantis  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:37pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

Humans and other hominids share common ancestors. We didn't evolve from them; we AND they evolved from these common ancestors.

We don't find 5 million year old human fossils, but we don't find 5 million year old gorilla, chimpanzee or orangutan fossils either. We find fossils of extinct hominids from which some of these species evolved. Go back another 20 million years, and you'll find fossils of protohominids from which all of these species evolved - including many now-extinct ones.

65 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:45pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

I dunno, wouldn't hurt to check...
/

*ducks*

66 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:49pm

re: #44 Charles

The answer is simple - apologies to George - we didn't evolve from monkeys or apes. We evolved from ape-like creatures, the primate strain that eventually became Homo Sapiens.

Actually, there is nothing in evolutionary theory that precludes the co-existence of an ancestor and its evolved descendants. In fact, this is common. A given species population can become isolated into groups and only one group acquires the mutation that fuels an evolutionary step.

Carlin's point simply shows a basic misunderstanding of evolution and natural selection.

67 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:49pm

We worry so much about Evolution. Let's argue this vision of heaven...

/They never said anything about Jesus doing any such thing in Sunday school....

68 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:45:50pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?


ouch

69 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:46:35pm

re: #52 Killian Bundy

So has the gold standard.

/something else that's not making a comeback in this country

Careful, what comes around can go around again. We all thought there'd never a another jihad, and now look at what we have coming out of the Middle East. They thought there'd never be another big war after WWI. They got into a bigger one.

70 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:46:48pm

re: #43 MJ

"Why is there no evidence of man walking alongside velociraptors and the diplodicus?"

What do you mean? There's evidence:
[Link: www.petesmoviepage.com...]

You've just turned my world upside down!

71 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:46:50pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

Fuck you.

72 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:47:04pm

I see this issue has finally driven Charles over the edge.


TALK TO ACTION is a far left blog that links to DailyKos and the ACLU, among many others. You want to use that to support your argument...feel free, but don't complain when people start questioning your credibility.

I'm not the first one to say this, and I probably won't be the last, but I think you're making a big mistake by pursuing this path....

73 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:47:05pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

Does that make you some sort of marsupial?

74 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:47:06pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

Ick! Get 'em off! Get 'em off!

75 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:47:55pm

re: #46 finallyalizard

In the words of Stan Marsh [NSFW]

I see your working hard at trying to get the bogus "LGF is now DKos" meme to stick.

76 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:47:59pm

I just skimmed through the DI's response to attacks on the Wedge Document and it seems fairly reasonable. I still don't see them as the group of monsters that people claim them to be.

77 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:48:11pm

I think we can all agree the chicken is one damn fine bird.

78 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:48:15pm

You don't remember me
But I remember you
Tears on my pillow
Lizards on my nutsack put there by you oooo ooooo

79 Lizard by the Bay  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:48:48pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

I would have a doctor look at that, Charles.

80 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:48:49pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

/the scientific term is scrotum

81 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:48:51pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

In the words of Stan Marsh [NSFW]

I see your working hard at trying to get the bogus "LGF is now DKos" meme to stick.

Interesting story, finallyalizard has changed his nic to notanymorealizard...

82 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:01pm

re: #36 Charles

In a twisted way I am totally comfortable with the masses drinking the Global Warming™ Kool Aid. The more energy efficient we become the better. The less pollution we emit the better.

That being said, I am not naive enough to believe my carbon dioxide emissions will heat up the planet. Any action we take must be responsible and deal with possible consequences (food prices).

The GW scare will lead to technological advances that will reduce our dependance on fossil fuel, and improve the quality of life for our kids.

83 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:19pm

Another fun tactic of the creationists is outright lying and fraud such as depicted by Henry Morris in The Genesis Flood, or half truths like misrepresenting Karl Popper.

84 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:21pm

re: #80 Killian Bundy

/the scientific term is scrotum

Around our house we just call it extra elbow skin.....

85 loflyer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:21pm

Great! Another Saturday night slug fest! I refuse to argue the matter, as far as I am concerned we all evolved from one celled amoeba....

86 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:36pm

re: #80 Killian Bundy

/the scientific term is scrotum

I thought that was a planet near uranus?

87 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:49:57pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

Penicillin should clear that right up.

88 Salamantis  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:50:22pm

re: #54 Maximu§

I'll just stay outta this one. This Roman Catholic ends up making too many enemies when I speak out, but I'll light a candle for all lgf members in mass tomarrow and I think God does smile down on this website.

Just remember that Pope John Paul II issued an encyclical accepting the Theory of Evolution as legitimate science in 1996.

89 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:50:26pm

re: #72 xleatherneck

People might question my credibility? The horror. Why, that's never happened before.

What will I do?

90 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:50:39pm

re: #87 Racer X

Penicillin should clear that right up.

There are topical solutions for it too....

91 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:50:45pm

re: #74 DeathtotheSwiss

Ick! Get 'em off! Get 'em off!

"I have lizards on my nut sack"
Was that not heard coming from the Oval Office during the Clinton years?

92 Timbre  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:50:58pm
BERKELEY, Calif. — In December 2006, protesters angry about campus expansion plans clambered into the branches of a threatened oak grove at the University of California, Berkeley. (FOX News)

The hominoids descended from the trees; the moonbats climb back up. The cycle of evolution continues.

93 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:51:08pm

re: #72 xleatherneck

You've dinged down a lot of articles for quite some time, and have a mere 122 comments since 2006. Quite interesting.

94 brainwizard73  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:51:44pm

re: #54 Maximu§

I, like you, like to sit these out. These tend to pull out some really nasty comments.

I will just wait until someone tries to take this topic and wedge it into a thread on...say, terrorism and apple pie recipes, then I lay into them for mucking it up. Usually nicely, but if they are bores, look out.

95 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:51:55pm

re: #88 Salamantis

Just remember that Pope John Paul II issued an encyclical accepting the Theory of Evolution as legitimate science in 1996.

No reason to stay out of it. I think the discussions lately have been much more civil. Probably because many of those prone to explode have been banned....

96 michael78244  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:52:36pm

re: #54 Maximu§

I agree and its a shame that it has gone this far. For the record, I read the Wedge Wiki and it has not changed my mind that Intelligent Design should be discussed in the classroom along with Darwinism. The material does not have to come from DI and no mention of religion needs to be made.

As a wise man once said "And thats all I have to say about that".

97 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:53:17pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Yahoo.

98 Charles  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:53:18pm

I just checked, and I'm very happy to announce that I do NOT have lizards on my nutsack.

another urban legend

99 Winslow  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:53:47pm

In Defense of “Darwinism”

A Term Paper


Part I: The Dawn of Darwinism

Recently, there has been some controversy regarding the propriety of the term: “Darwinism.” It has been alleged that this term is nothing more than a smear, and should not be used in respectable discourse. In this term paper, I will defend this term.

“Darwinism” has been a legitimate term, in continuous use by leading evolutionary theorists, for nearly one hundred and fifty years. In the late 19th century, the naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace, friend and colleague of Darwin, staunch defender of natural selection, and famed discoverer of the Malaysian flying frog, entitled his 1889 book: Darwinism. Strangely, the heir to the Alfred Russel Wallace estate has claimed, with an odd fervor, that Wallace’s publisher chose this title, and that the book should properly be referred to by Wallace’s original working title, Flying Frogism.

In the early 20th century, “Neo-Darwinism” was used to distinguish current theory from the earlier “classical Darwinism.” Throughout the 20th century, the centenarian and preeminent evolutionary biologist Ernst Mayr interminably argued in terms of Darwinism, in speech and in his written works. In his Harvard Gazette obituary, Mayr was quoted as saying: “I’m an old-time fighter for Darwinism.” Further, he was said to have said: “I say, ‘Please tell me what is wrong with Darwinism. I can’t see anything wrong with Darwinism.’” In his magnum diatribus, entitled One Long Argument, Mayr, master of the rhetorical device argumentum ad infinitum, laboriously contended: “What is Darwinism? ... Darwinism is not a simple theory that is either true or false but is rather a highly complex research program that is being continuously modified and improved.”

100 Winslow  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:54:26pm

In Defense of "Darwinism"


Part II: Frogism and Beyond

At the dawn of the 21st century, the evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould, whose work has been noted by Gibbons, likewise used the term “Darwinism,” as in his 2002 tome The Structure of Evolutionary Theory, Part I, Chapter 2: The Essence of Darwinism and the Basis of Modern Orthodoxy: An Exegesis of the Origin of Species. Gould was subsequently flogged, turned on the rack, and burned at the stake by Creationists, who claimed that Gould’s use of the term “Orthodoxy” scientifically proved that Darwinism is a heretical atheistic religion. Following Gould’s infernal death on May 20, 2002, 5/20 Truthers scientifically proved that the creationist attacks on Gould had actually been orchestrated by Ernst Mayr. On trial for orchestration, Mayr argued his own case, at length. Tragically, on January 3, 2005, while presenting his closing argument, Ernst Mayr was killed in a spectacular kamikaze flying frog attack, orchestrated by the crazed cult leader of the Church of Flying Frogism, Alfred Russel Wallace IV.

So now, ID crusaders are trying to use the term “Darwinism” as a smear. So what? Look how they use the word “theory.” Shall we abandon “theory”? What about “science,” “proof,” and “truth”? You name it, they misuse it. For a century and a half, “Darwinism” has been, dare I say it, a perfectly cromulent word. It should not summarily be thrown under the bus, just because of the mad gyrations of the dancing fools of the Disco Institute.

101 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:54:38pm

re: #98 Charles

It's early yet.

102 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:54:38pm

I can't believe it.

Did a yahoo search for Lizards and Scrotum

there is a video out there. (at [Link: www.spike.com...]

not gonna post the link since it contains nudity but people can find it.

apparently there are lizards on a nut sack!

103 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:54:53pm

re: #98 Charles

I just checked, and I'm very happy to announce that I do NOT have lizards on my nutsack.

another urban legend

It is amazing how many of us are probably able to make that kind of check right now with just a cursory glance downward.

/Blogging in PJs be damned!

104 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:55:48pm

This reminds me of when Ivan, in The Brothers Karamozov, says he finds it easy to believe in God, but impossible to believe in the world.

Or, perhaps, vice-versa?

105 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:55:50pm

re: #96 michael78244

I agree and its a shame that it has gone this far. For the record, I read the Wedge Wiki and it has not changed my mind that Intelligent Design should be discussed in the classroom along with Darwinism. The material does not have to come from DI and no mention of religion needs to be made.

As a wise man once said "And thats all I have to say about that".

Michael:
The ID movement is driven by the Discovery Institute, and it is intended to shape "public policy to reflect conservative Christian, namely evangelical Protestant, values" The Wedge Strategy is the governs Discovery Institute's campaigns to insert ID into science classes. No one is "projecting" a Christian religion on ID - it is what it is, and what it is, is an attempt to insert evangelical Protestant values and beliefs into the public school system via ID in science classes.

ID and the Discovery Institute cannot be separated, in the case of ID in science classes.

106 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:56:05pm

re: #98 Charles

I just checked, and I'm very happy to announce that I do NOT have lizards on my nutsack.

another urban legend

Did you look underneath? Look harder. These may be miniature lizards.

107 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:56:10pm

re: #96 michael78244

Considering that Intelligent Design necessates a designer of some kind, how do you propse teaching without:

A. A supernatural designer of some kind, i.e. God, or
B. Space aliens being the designer.

Either way, it is not falsifiable, and therefore not science. You might as well teach Chariots of the Gods as fact then. It is no different than teaching Intelligent Design as science.

108 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:56:17pm

re: #82 Racer X

I think you miss the over lying theme to global warming fanaticism.
It's not about saving the planet, it's about creating socialism and consolidating power in the hands of government.
Same objective Liberals have always had. Just put in a new package for sale.

109 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:56:45pm

re: #96 michael78244

I agree and its a shame that it has gone this far. For the record, I read the Wedge Wiki and it has not changed my mind that Intelligent Design should be discussed in the classroom along with Darwinism. The material does not have to come from DI and no mention of religion needs to be made.

As a wise man once said "And thats all I have to say about that".

No, because Evolution is science. Belief in God is faith.
I believe in God, but that belief is not given to scientific inquiry.
Science is science and Faith is Faith. Bad idea to mix them.

110 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:56:45pm

Does this thread mean I can finally quit perusing the "Creationist Bill Signed by Jindal" thread?

111 brainwizard73  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:57:04pm

If Barack Obama thought he had lizards on his nutsack, would he look down or call his wife to ask?

112 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:57:11pm

re: #106 Globular Cluster

Did you look underneath? Look harder. These may be miniature lizards.

Would you like him to describe the actual check? I am sure there some websites out there that cater to that.....

113 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:57:28pm

re: #72 xleatherneck

I see this issue has finally driven Charles over the edge.


TALK TO ACTION is a far left blog that links to DailyKos and the ACLU, among many others. You want to use that to support your argument...feel free, but don't complain when people start questioning your credibility.

I'm not the first one to say this, and I probably won't be the last, but I think you're making a big mistake by pursuing this path....


I'd question the path if it weren't one he didn't want to go. You can't ask Charles to support something he doesn't believe in or hold back just because his position is going to offend a few allies in other subjects.

Charles isn't asking you to drop your faith, he's not asking any of us to do that. This is his website and he can do whatever he wants with it. And, speaking as a member of a growing minority of secular conservatives (though definitely not a representative of them) I have to say this is an issue that needs attention.

Having the government teach your child religion is so far away from a conservative idea that it smacks of leftism. Why on Earth can't you teach your own children your religion without having everyone else's child taught that way too?

114 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:57:32pm

re: #111 brainwizard73

If Barack Obama thought he had lizards on his nutsack, would he look down or call his wife to ask?

There is no nut sack. NEVER!

baghdad bob

115 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:00pm

Here are the first two paragraphs of the Wedge document:

The proposition that human beings are created in the image of God is one of the bedrock principles on which Western civilization was built.

True.

Its influence can be detected in most, if not all, of the West's greatest achievements, including representative democracy, human rights, free enterprise, and progress in the arts and sciences.

True again.

Yet a little over a century ago, this cardinal idea came under wholesale attack by intellectuals drawing on the discoveries of modern science.

Note the wiggle word, "intellectuals." This enables the writer to paint scientists later with the same brush used to tar (justly) Marx and Freud. They go wrong at precisely this point. The problem isn't the scientific method, but "intellectuals" who use materialism to pull all kinds of shenanigans. Why don't they just go after those "intellectuals," and leave actual science alone?

Debunking the traditional conceptions of both God and man, thinkers such as Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, and Sigmund Freud portrayed humans not as moral and spiritual beings, but as animals or machines who inhabited a universe ruled by purely impersonal forces and whose behavior and very thoughts were dictated by the unbending forces of biology, chemistry, and environment.

Darwin, however, wasn't a cynical ideologue like the other two.

You know, it's possible to worry about stupid materialists and confront their ideas without attacking science itself.

116 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:02pm

re: #13 CyanSnowHawk

Not yet it isn't, but that is what the wedge is all about. What we could really use is a wedge against the socialist indoctrination that's going on.

Freetoken brought up an excellent point this morning. We combat this with better education on civics, the American form of government, and probably history too.

117 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:25pm

#89 Charles
People might question my credibility? The horror. Why, that's never happened before.
What will I do?


I'm talking about people who are loyal to this site.

Go ahead, make light of it, it's your site, and your reputation....

118 solomonpanting  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:27pm

I thought the intersection of Carlin's passing with the ID discussions was somewhat timely. Thank you for all comments. I'm just an Apeman.

119 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:44pm

re: #111 brainwizard73

If Barack Obama thought he had lizards on his nutsack, would he look down or call his wife to ask?

He's throw it under the bus.

/ouch.

120 brainwizard73  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:58:54pm

re: #114 Shug

I just couldn't resist.

121 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 5:59:05pm

re: #98 Charles

I just checked, and I'm very happy to announce that I do NOT have lizards on my nutsack.

another urban legend

Sorry Chuck, not going to buy it until there's been an independent investigation into the matter.

122 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:00:05pm

re: #117 xleatherneck

If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

123 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:00:21pm

re: #103 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

It is amazing how many of us are probably able to make that kind of check right now with just a cursory glance downward.

/Blogging in PJs be damned!

eww, I did not need that picture in my head.

124 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:00:28pm

re: #105 reine.de.tout

Your citation is directly in contradiction with the response of the DI cited above.

125 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:00:35pm

I'm kinda tired of low time lizards, still damp with shells on their backs coming in here and dropping steaming piles.

You're saying absolutely nothing new. It shows a complete ignorance of the previous discussions on the topic. It's nothing but a fart in a cotillion.

Either add something fresh, debate the topic or STFU and crawl back under your rock.

126 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:00:36pm

re: #122 MandyManners

If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

And then the Scientologists as well...

127 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:01:13pm

re: #112 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

Um, no.

/the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my your sockpuppet's sockpuppet

128 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:01:15pm

Lizards carved from nuts.

For your viewing pleasure and enlightenment.

129 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:01:35pm

I wonder how many Darwinist will have a death-bed conversion?

130 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:01:46pm

re: #95 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

I guess you weren't here last night/this morning, when a certain drunken someone might have set a record for highest number of deletions in one thread.

(I haven't been here long enough to know for certain.)

131 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:01:59pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

Why is everybody looking at me?

132 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:24pm

#93 Honorary Yooper
You've dinged down a lot of articles for quite some time, and have a mere 122 comments since 2006. Quite interesting.

That's because you're an idiot. I've never dinged any comments, up or down, so please, stop spreading lies.

133 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:26pm

re: #126 DeathtotheSwiss

And then the Scientologists as well...

Will Tom Cruise be jumping on the couches in teachers' lounges?

134 BBev  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:28pm

re: #98 Charles

I just checked, and I'm very happy to announce that I do NOT have lizards on my nutsack.

another urban legend


Man I hope not. That would not be very comfortable.

135 MacGregor  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:45pm

Happy Saturday night all! Sagan speculated re: #121 DeathtotheSwiss

Sorry Chuck, not going to buy it until there's been an independent investigation into the matter.

Oh no, not a throbbing nutsack!

136 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:51pm

re: #127 Killian Bundy

Um, no.

/the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my your sockpuppet's sockpuppet

How right you are. Please note that the previous post was only done with love.

137 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:02:58pm

re: #129 n in wi

The Subgenius church preaches that you should join as many religions as possible before dying. You know...to cover your ass...

138 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:03:03pm

re: #129 n in wi

I wonder how many Darwinist will have a death-bed conversion?

I'm wondering where oh where is my SUMMER !

139 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:03:39pm

re: #108 n in wi

Nah - I get that part too.

I'm just thinking about what my kids will have to deal with in 50 years.

I want the flying cars and moving sidewalks and stuff like we were promised when we were kids!

140 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:03:39pm

re: #129 n in wi

I wonder how many Darwinist will have a death-bed conversion?

Very disingenuous. You are equating science and atheism to make your version of religion look better. Heal thyself first, and leave the rest of us practicing Christians who don't believe your literalist tripe alone.

141 MacGregor  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:03:48pm

pimf - what a mess

142 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:03pm

re: #36 Charles

I grabbed that Schwinn Voyageur, by the way. Disc brakes and everything for about $200. It ain't the lightest bike, but it's good for errands where it doesn't make sense to take the road bike with the shoes and the clothes, etc.

/flipping the bird to saudi arabia, one grocery trip at a time

I used to love my Schwinn trashbike, it not only develops character Charles, but also makes you cherish the finer cycles in life.

143 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:04pm

re: #130 Josephine

I guess you weren't here last night/this morning, when a certain drunken someone might have set a record for highest number of deletions in one thread.

(I haven't been here long enough to know for certain.)

Who, please?

144 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:05pm

I'll be glad to see another Saturday Night Music Thread.

145 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:15pm

re: #128 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

Lizards carved from nuts.

For your viewing pleasure and enlightenment.

Is your avatar a young George Galloway?

Side note: explain the evolution of the creature on the right.

146 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:30pm

re: #132 xleatherneck

#93 Honorary Yooper
You've dinged down a lot of articles for quite some time, and have a mere 122 comments since 2006. Quite interesting.

That's because you're an idiot. I've never dinged any comments, up or down, so please, stop spreading lies.

Very disingenuous, you've dinged down quite a few articles on ID. Want me to show you?

147 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:35pm

re: #129 n in wi

I wonder how many Darwinist will have a death-bed conversion?

I had to ding you down. Believing in science does not make one an atheist.

148 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:04:52pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

no doubt checking his nut sack for ...lizards

149 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:01pm

re: #122 MandyManners

If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

Dear Mandy, you ain't said shit. They will demand their Dear Prophet & all the Allah crap. Superstition will rule!

150 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:06pm

re: #146 Honorary Yooper

Very disingenuous, you've dinged down quite a few articles on ID. Want me to show you?

Yes!

151 ted  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:09pm

Nutsacks can support amphibians as well as reptles:

[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

152 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:14pm

re: #130 Josephine

I guess you weren't here last night/this morning, when a certain drunken someone might have set a record for highest number of deletions in one thread.

(I haven't been here long enough to know for certain.)

And someone was blogging while drunk? Shocking!

153 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:27pm

Man, there typos all over that document. Was it OCR'd and never checked?

in Phase I we are supporting vital witting and research

All in favor of vital witting, say aye.

154 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:28pm

re: #124 Globular Cluster

I'm sorry - I'm dense - I don't get what you're trying to tell me.

155 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:34pm

re: #70 DeathtotheSwiss

You've just turned my world upside down!

Yeah, it's pretty powerful evidence.
So is this one:

[Link: timesonline.typepad.com...]

156 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:36pm

re: #139 Racer X

Nah - I get that part too.

I'm just thinking about what my kids will have to deal with in 50 years.

I want the flying cars and moving sidewalks and stuff like we were promised when we were kids!

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

157 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:05:51pm

re: #144 godfrey

I'll be glad to see another Saturday Night Music Thread.


Here is my song nomination

158 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:06:13pm

re: #130 Josephine

That was so appalling. I've never been embarrassed by my own patience before, but... that did it.

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:06:23pm

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

huh? I see nothing wrong with n in wi's comment. Would not a Darwinist not beleive in ID, and by extension in all that follows? So a "conversion" would mena he would hope that there IS something beyond this existence

160 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:06:28pm

re: #149 opnion

Dear Mandy, you ain't said shit. They will demand their Dear Prophet & all the Allah crap. Superstition will rule!

This is why I send The Kid to a private, religious school. He learns science in science classes and religion in chapel.

161 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:07:02pm

re: #155 MJ

Yeah, it's pretty powerful evidence.
So is this one:

[Link: timesonline.typepad.com...]

Lack of globular cluster proves that's a fake try again.

162 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:07:25pm

once again,the arguement is whether id should be taught in a public schools' science class.
What someone believes is their own buisness.when it comes to creation,My opinion is no better than anyone elses(wasn't there,didn't see it.)but that being said,id no more belongs in a science class than any other religious teaching.

163 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:07:46pm

re: #151 ted

Nutsacks can support amphibians as well as reptles:

[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

I love the picture of the person calling to tell someone that she got crabs from them. She looks so happy. I doubt that would be the case. (I wouldn't know, sockpuppets aren't good breeding grounds for crabs, evolution and all has made us immune).

164 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:03pm

re: #147 MandyManners

I had to ding you down. Believing in science does not make one an atheist.

Point taken. I should not have assumed they are not compatible.

165 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:08pm

re: #160 MandyManners

This is why I send The Kid to a private, religious school. He learns science in science classes and religion in chapel.

I admire that, You have your head screwed on. We did the same thing

166 Milk Toast Intolerant  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:21pm

re: #92 Timbre

The hominoids descended from the trees; the moonbats climb back up. The cycle of evolution continues.

I don't care which side of the debate you're on; that right there is funny.

167 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:21pm

re: #126 DeathtotheSwiss

don't bring the blessed great lord xenu into this!

168 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:42pm

re: #145 jcm

Is your avatar a young George Galloway?

Side note: explain the evolution of the creature on the right.

I wish. He's so dreamy.

169 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:47pm

re: #154 reine.de.tout

I'm sorry - I'm dense - I don't get what you're trying to tell me.

Did you read the DI response that Charles posted?

170 BBev  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:08:55pm

re: #148 n in wi

no doubt checking his nut sack for ...lizards

Nope non on mine.

171 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:09:00pm

re: #160 MandyManners

My thoughts too.

172 Racer X  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:09:02pm

re: #156 DeathtotheSwiss

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

LOL!

173 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:09:03pm

re: #160 MandyManners

This is why I send The Kid to a private, religious school. He learns science in science classes and religion in chapel.

A very lucky kid. Very.

174 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:09:16pm

re: #165 opnion

Tuition is going through the roof.

175 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:09:18pm

Hey- I know!

Maybe some people should, you know- read the links Charles provided, to get a better understanding on what it is they're talking about before they continue on spouting rhetoric directly lifted from the people promoting this Very Bad Idea™.

176 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:10:05pm

re: #145 jcm

Is your avatar a young George Galloway?

Side note: explain the evolution of the creature on the right.

As for the question, its confusing, he's confused....

177 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:10:42pm

re: #171 Shug

It's a more rounded education than he would get in public schools.

178 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:10:50pm

re: #174 MandyManners

Tuition is going through the roof.

Ah, wait until college. Otta sight!

179 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:11:03pm

re: #173 NY Nana

Thanks, Nana! How're your grandbabies?

180 itellu3times  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:11:26pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
George Carlin

Discuss

My grandfather came from England, but there's still an England.

181 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:11:35pm

re: #129 n in wi

I wonder how many Darwinist will have a death-bed conversion?

Who cares?

What has that got to do with teaching religious dogma in science class?

I.D. is fundamentalist Christian young-earth creationism dressed up as science. It is not science. It does not stand up to the rigors of science.

Science teachers should teach science in science class. No more, no less. Science class = science lessons.

182 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:11:45pm

re: #161 jcm

Lack of globular cluster proves that's a fake try again.

Well, there always this place:

[Link: creationmuseum.org...]

183 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:12:23pm

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

184 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:12:24pm

re: #178 opnion

Ah, wait until college. Otta sight!

Sshhhhhhh.

185 once and future angeleno  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:12:46pm

Friends, it's a free country; the Demobrats want us all drinking *their* brand of KoolAid, but we know we don't like that brand. Do we want to take the same approach to others on this issue -- one idea, one party, one way to view biology?

So what if there are folks who hold what some (many) of us think are outmoded ideas? True, teaching in public schools should not be limited to religious dogma, but that doesn't mean we need to ridicule people who haven't see the evolutionary light.

We ought to be humble enough to recognize that there are lots of things we don't know, and that includes all the intricate bits of natural history. We should allow others to go down a different path -- as long as it doesn't include flying airplanes into tall buildings.

In high school in the great Midwest, I recall a rather dense fellow student with beady little eyes who set her jaw and said "How can they take one little tiny bone and claim they know it came from a big dinosaur and know what the dinosaur looked like?" A reasonable question, even if she was not susceptible to a reasonable answer. But this is nothing like the aforesaid airplanes-and-buildings believers.

The Amish don't believe in electricity or vaccinations, but we don't ridicule them. Chill.

186 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:12:59pm

re: #183 Thanos

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

I was wondering about that, too.

187 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:13:05pm

re: #125 jcm

Amen, Lizard!

188 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:13:29pm

Here's what I do not get. Let's say Genesis is a liturgical document, not a historical record, and its story was never intended to function as a literal rendering of the creation of the universe. Let's say it's more like a figurative parable. Even if you grant all that, Genesis, like a parable, can still be true. It could still be true that God created the universe, that certain things happened first, second, third, etc., and that the latest event, as far as we're concerned, was our own emergence, and our extraordinary nature and relative position among species. The basic truths of Genesis is that God is massively powerful, loving, and creative, and that we are powerful, loving, creative creatures, i.e. made in the image of God. Why would any evangelical protestant be threatened by the way this story is told? Why is their conception of Biblical truthfulness so limited?

190 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:13:35pm

re: #183 Thanos

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

God bless the USMC!

191 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:14:00pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

If man conservatives evolved from monkeys moonbats and apes progressives , why do we still have monkeys and apes? moonbats and progressives


Shug

Discuss

192 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:14:04pm

re: #185 once and future angeleno

The Amish don't try to shove their beliefs down our throats or the throats of our kids.

193 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:14:23pm

re: #129 n in wi

what if god used evolution to create man?

194 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:14:42pm

re: #184 MandyManners

Sshhhhhhh.

I'm sorry,but I am paying in state tuition & holy crap!

195 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:15:18pm

re: #185 once and future angeleno

not buying it

196 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:15:21pm

re: #169 Globular Cluster

Did you read the DI response that Charles posted?

Yes. So, the "creator" they are talking about - this is the creator recognized by . . . who? Hindus?

197 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:15:26pm

re: #193 Boondock St. Bender

what if god used evolution to create man?

Thats it! We have a winner!

198 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:15:41pm

re: #193 Boondock St. Bender

what if god used evolution to create man?

What if? I don't understand why that is so offensive to people.

199 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:16:44pm

re: #192 MandyManners

The Amish don't try to shove their beliefs down our throats or the throats of our kids.

thats because they don't have cars and can't get to our kids

200 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:16:47pm

re: #198 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

It offends them because it attacks the way they think the Bible is true.

201 wolfie  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:04pm

re: #40 Honorary Yooper

It has been in the past. The banning of the teaching of evolution the 1910s and 1920s led to the US falling behind in science by the 1950s. Only the Soviet launch of Sputnik reversed that.

This is balderdash.

1) The teaching of evolution was banned only in certain states and localities. It was taught in most public schools before the 1957 launch of Sputnik.
2) There is no evidence that the US was "behind" the Soviet Union in science at any time. The launching of Sputnik in 1957 surprised us only because we thought we were much further ahead than we were.
We had also underestimated the resources they were pouring into the space program.
3) Twelve short years after Sputnik we put a man on the moon. The scientists who did it were educated before teaching evolution in public schools was universal. In any case, evolutionary theory hasn't got a thing to do with it.

Let's not use bad, comic-book history to argue against the DI's pseudo-science.

202 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:05pm

re: #198 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

Neither do i .(not in the buisness of telling god how to run things)

203 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:10pm

re: #143 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet

Someone with a faster, newer computer than mine (science!) will have to help us out: I don't remember his nic or the title of the thread. (Sorry; my memory is bad.) It's actually kind of sad and scary, not funny at all.

204 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:33pm

re: #199 sattv4u2

thats because they don't have cars and can't get to our kids

Yeah, but look at the price of gas!

205 Karridine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:34pm

re: #181 Josephine

Perhaps more importantly, we need to keep our eye on the bigger picture, BECAUSE of the ease of saying, "Well, I'll just have my (our) kids taught the way I want them to be taught..."

If we're talking about 'learning how to reason', that can be good.

But remember that it is VERY DIS-UNIFYING, very Balkanizing for Americans to just shrug and say, 'Let them learn their Creationist ID stuff... WE are studying REAL science...'

In a few years we can hardly talk to each other...

/oh, wait! That's how it is now...

206 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:36pm

#113 DeathtotheSwiss

207 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:17:58pm

re: #181 Josephine

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total

208 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:18:07pm

re: #201 wolfie

Actually, wolfie, the launch of Sputnik didn't surprise us. General Medaris knew about it. He didn't let on because he knew it would scare the country into action.

209 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:18:10pm

re: #203 Josephine

Someone with a faster, newer computer than mine (science!) will have to help us out: I don't remember his nic or the title of the thread. (Sorry; my memory is bad.) It's actually kind of sad and scary, not funny at all.

murtaq - or something similar. Is that the one?

210 joecitizen  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:18:44pm

re: #60 Charles

I have lizards on my nutsack?

better 'n nutsacks on yer lizard..I'm just sayin'...

211 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:18:45pm

re: #207 n in wi

There is fossil data to prove evolition

212 loveguru  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:18:48pm

re: #193 Boondock St. Bender

Then you are not intellactual... World top Intelactual is a Islamist and Creationist ..... Check my the link i posted in Spinoff. and analyze yourself...

Oh, i just forgot to add.... 6th Top intellactual 2008 is Tariq Ramadan with respect to that list...

213 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:12pm

re: #200 godfrey

It offends them because it attacks the way they think the Bible is true.

I know. Sigh.

214 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:33pm

re: #188 godfrey

Because they subscribe to a literal interpretation. Interestingly enough, when The Fundamentals came out, there was hardly even a mention of evolution, Darwin or On the Origin of Species. Their main problem was with another book that came out around the same time, The Life of Jesus Critically Examined, by David F. Strauss. Couple with Seventh Day Adventists, and you have the modern fundamentalist creation movement.

215 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:33pm

re: #188 godfrey

Here's what I do not get. Let's say Genesis is a liturgical document, not a historical record, and its story was never intended to function as a literal rendering of the creation of the universe. Let's say it's more like a figurative parable. Even if you grant all that, Genesis, like a parable, can still be true. It could still be true that God created the universe, that certain things happened first, second, third, etc., and that the latest event, as far as we're concerned, was our own emergence, and our extraordinary nature and relative position among species. The basic truths of Genesis is that God is massively powerful, loving, and creative, and that we are powerful, loving, creative creatures, i.e. made in the image of God. Why would any evangelical protestant be threatened by the way this story is told? Why is their conception of Biblical truthfulness so limited?

Frankly because their view of Christianity is limited. Virtually every denomination out their has their interpretation of what the correct view of scripture is. They cling to dogma instead of seeking God and truth. I grew up in a family of generations of preachers, left, and returned to Christianity. I know some of the "inside" stuff.

They find a comfortable spot, and instead of pursing, seeking God and truth. Defend a point with fanatical vigor. And miss everything else.

216 Syrah  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:48pm

This problem will never be resolved so long as politicians and government bureaucrats are involved in the education system.

We could beat the DI trogs back for a day or even a year but they and others with similar intent to use the authority of the state to impose their weltanschauung on the young will always come back to try again.

So long as the education system exist in the political realm it will be susceptible to the whims and vagaries of the shifting dogmas within our culture.

217 Sabnen  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:51pm

This past year we had a Sunday School Teacher for adults who I just loved. We would discuss, among other things, Intelligent Design. Whenever the discussion got too wired up by some in the class he would pop up two pictures on the overhead screen.

On the left was a picture of the new $27 million dollar fundamentalist Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky and on the right a starving child with the caption below saying "I can be fed for only 25 cents a day."

It always left the fundamentally minded speechless and told them to put their money where there mouths were and that acts are more important than words and theory.

218 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:19:52pm

re: #202 Boondock St. Bender

Exactly.

219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:20:08pm

re: #207 n in wi

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total

One is based on the use of the scientific method to create a hypothesis to test a theory, the other is based on "Because we say so". Which one belongs in a science class?

220 wolfie  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:20:09pm

re: #115 godfrey

AMEN ! Well said!

221 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:20:45pm

re: #211 Shug

There is fossil data to prove evolition

Which whateverSUARUS did we evelve from ?

222 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:01pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

Which whateverSUARUS did we evelve from ?

EVOLVE ,,, PIMF

223 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:16pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

That was so appalling. I've never been embarrassed by my own patience before, but... that did it.

Please don't be embarrassed by your kindness, Shar. You reached out and appealed to reason and past shared commonalities but he was too far gone. At least you know you tried. Maybe one day he'll realize it and understand that you tried to help him.

224 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:24pm

re: #207 n in wi

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total

No, there is a scientific underpining for Evolution. It is unfair to try to toss Faith in to it , Faith by defintion is unproveable.

225 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:49pm

re: #207 n in wi

Where in WI are you?

226 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:51pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

EVOLVE ,,, PIMF

Back in line, you need another round of evolution of the spelling genes.

227 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:21:58pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

Which whateverSUARUS did we evelve from ?

We didn't. If you're looking for our ancestors, you need to look at the small furry mammals underfoot of the SUARUSes.

228 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:22:00pm

re: #193 Boondock St. Bender

what if god used evolution to create man?

An absolute possibility in my mind. We need not eliminate any mention of God from the equation.

229 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:22:01pm

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Yes. So, the "creator" they are talking about - this is the creator recognized by . . . who? Hindus?

It doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand the Enlightenment roots of the Declaration of Independence.

Address their point. The influence of God on Western civilization, whether justified or not, has been been great, and is simply a fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

230 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:22:06pm

Speking of DARWINism. Someone today climbed over a fence in a restricted area at SIX FLAGS/ Georgia and was decapitated by the BATMAN ride !

231 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:02pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

Speking of DARWINism. Someone today climbed over a fence in a restricted area at SIX FLAGS/ Georgia and was decapitated by the BATMAN ride !

And of course the tool's family is going to sue. The fence is there for a REASON!

232 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:04pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

Which whateverSUARUS did we evelve from ?


flavaflavisaurus

233 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:09pm

re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One is based on the use of the scientific method to create a hypothesis to test a theory, the other is based on "Because we say so". Which one belongs in a science class?

Just so.

234 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:21pm

re: #212 loveguru

Then you are not intellactual...

thats the best compliment i've had all day...(had a security guard tell me a had a cute butt,..for an old guy.this tops even that!)

235 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:27pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

Speking of DARWINism. Someone today climbed over a fence in a restricted area at SIX FLAGS/ Georgia and was decapitated by the BATMAN ride !

I tried warning them.

236 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:32pm

re: #223 Josephine

Who was he? I somehow managed to miss this by going to learn dances, and then going to bed.

237 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:23:40pm

re: #231 jcm

And of course the tool's family is going to sue. The fence is there for a REASON!

2 fences, actually

238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:10pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

Which whateverSUARUS did we evelve from ?

Dont know yet. Science was busy proving the world was round, that the earth revolves around the sun, that man could fly and other such "truths" that were thought to be heretical at one time so the study of evolution has lagged a bit.

239 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:12pm

re: #235 Bat Boy

I tried warning them.

hehehehehe

240 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:19pm

re: #183 Thanos

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

How many Marines do you know that would tell someone else to "watch what you say, you might offend someone"?

241 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:21pm

re: #228 n in wi

Oops, sorry, bad ding. Thought you said something different. My bad.

242 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:24pm

#113 DeathtotheSwiss
I have to say this is an issue that needs attention.

This is an issue that has no clear lines of demarcation (unlike the preeminent issue this website is intended for) and only causes chaos....something that we don't need right now. That's just my opinion though, comical as it is to some...

243 loveguru  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:26pm

re: #213 the sockpuppet of my sockpuppet is my sockpuppet
re: #230 sattv4u2

so did God created Infidels too in the same way, as he created the believers ?

244 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:36pm

re: #237 sattv4u2

2 fences, actually


I hope Six Flags sues the family for any damages to the coaster

245 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:36pm

re: #236 Honorary Yooper

It was Murqtaad.

246 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:24:49pm

re: #237 sattv4u2

2 fences, actually

I wonder if he's parents every said no to him.

247 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:25:17pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dont know yet. Science was busy proving the world was round, that the earth revolves around the sun, that man could fly and other such "truths" that were thought to be heretical at one time so the study of evolution has lagged a bit.

Gee, you would have thunk that would have been near the top of the list of THINGS TO DO, instead of inventing things like PAM or VELCRO !

248 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:25:25pm

re: #231 jcm

And of course the tool's family is going to sue. The fence is there for a REASON!

Not just one fence, but TWO fences.

249 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:25:44pm

re: #244 Shug

I hope Six Flags sues the family for any damages to the coaster

The patrons sue for the inconvenience of the ride being shut down.
Fire department charges for the response and clean up.

250 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:26:00pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

Gee, you would have thunk that would have been near the top of the list of THINGS TO DO, instead of inventing things like PAM or VELCRO !

You got to pay the bills first.

251 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:26:21pm

re: #243 loveguru

re: #230 sattv4u2

so did God created Infidels too in the same way, as he created the believers ?

Bat Boy, the missing-est of links, say yessss!

Bat Boy, Out!

252 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:26:25pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

That was someone's child, and so many others saw it, and will never forget the horror they witnessed on what was to be a fun day at an amusement park.

May he rest in peace.

Look up 'compassion' and 'empathy' in the dictionary.

253 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:26:32pm

re: #242 xleatherneck

#113 DeathtotheSwiss
I have to say this is an issue that needs attention.

This is an issue that has no clear lines of demarcation (unlike the preeminent issue this website is intended for) and only causes chaos....something that we don't need right now. That's just my opinion though, comical as it is to some...

It's Charles' website. It's "intended" for whatever he wants to talk about.

254 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:26:57pm

re: #242 xleatherneck

This is an issue that has no clear lines of demarcation (unlike the preeminent issue this website is intended for)

You mean, like, um, cycling?

255 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:04pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dont know yet. Science was busy proving the world was round, that the earth revolves around the sun, that man could fly and other such "truths" that were thought to be heretical at one time so the study of evolution has lagged a bit.


As Galileo said leaving the Court, 'It's still round."

256 michael78244  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:15pm

re: #231 jcm

And of course the tool's family is going to sue. The fence is there for a REASON!

Ah, but was there a warning that said climbing this fence may cause decapitation?

257 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:17pm

re: #240 DeathtotheSwiss

How many Marines do you know that would tell someone else to "watch what you say, you might offend someone"?


zero

258 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:25pm

re: #254 Slumbering Behemoth

You mean, like, um, cycling?

No, programming.

259 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:33pm

re: #229 Globular Cluster

It doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand the Enlightenment roots of the Declaration of Independence.

Address their point. The influence of God on Western civilization, whether justified or not, has been been great, and is simply a fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is not an excuse to try to subvert the Constitution and the Establishment Clause.

This country was founded by people FLEEING theocracies- Christian theocracies, at that. Would you uphold only one aspect of our founding and deny another?

260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:51pm

Here is a question for a creationist: You're saying God's plan could not cover billions of years and rely on a process called evolution to work? Plenty of other of God's miracles have an observable scientific procss, why discount evolution as another of his miracles?

261 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:27:57pm

Madrasahs don't teach the scientific method.
Look how advanced they are.

I need 2 advils after typing that, just developed a splitting headache.

262 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:28:02pm

re: #228 n in wi

Yes, it seems evangelical protestants often use "creation" to speak of a past event, when in fact, it is clearly ongoing. To speak of God's creativity is to speak of it as an ongoing process, which makes a lot of logical sense, because God is not "in" time like the rest of us, but outside of it, above it, transcending time altogether. To God, "creation" is what God perceives total simul (all at once). So yes, the entire span of evolution -- past, present, and future -- is all part of one incomprehensibly massive creative Act.

263 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:28:28pm

Any more dramatic exits?

264 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:28:50pm

The thing that bothers me most about the DI institute and the movements behind them is that they are clearly a sidelined minority in Christianity. Where faith should bring strength, they bring weakness in the form of subterfuge and lies. Where faith should bring peace and joy, they foster vitriol and hate. Where faith should be abiding, they tremble before reality and empircal evidence of the universe the G-D they believed in created. Where faith should help others they instead profit and build temples to falsity (see the instructional post above about the $27 million dollar creationism museum while we know people starve.)

Is that Christianity? I say no, that instead it is Christianity warped by a dark lens of narrow minds.

265 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:10pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

I demand the Space Pope avatar or I'm leaving!

266 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:17pm

#122 MandyManners
If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

I'm not advocating for Intelligent Design, but I am advocating that this website regain it's bearings and sanity...

267 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:25pm

re: #240 DeathtotheSwiss

How many Marines do you know that would tell someone else to "watch what you say, you might offend someone"?

Zero.

268 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:25pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Any more dramatic exits?

I shall be flipping my cape around me, and in a puff of smoke flying out the window in a few minutes....

269 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:33pm

re: #256 michael78244

Ah, but was there a warning that said climbing this fence may cause decapitation?

There is now, leave his head on it.

270 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:48pm

re: #199 sattv4u2

thats because they don't have cars and can't get to our kids

LOL!

Seriously, I've never known an Amish person to be pushy with her/his beliefs.

271 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:29:54pm

re: #207 n in wi

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total

I.D. does not stand up to the rigors of science. Evolution does. Therefore, evolution qualifies to be taught in science class and I.D. does not.

Have you read the Wedge Strategy?

272 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:30:15pm

re: #264 Thanos

The thing that bothers me most about the DI institute and the movements behind them is that they are clearly a sidelined minority in Christianity. Where faith should bring strength, they bring weakness in the form of subterfuge and lies. Where faith should bring peace and joy, they foster vitriol and hate. Where faith should be abiding, they tremble before reality and empircal evidence of the universe the G-D they believed in created. Where faith should help others they instead profit and build temples to falsity (see the instructional post above about the $27 million dollar creationism museum while we know people starve.)

Is that Christianity? I say no, that instead it is Christianity warped by a dark lens of narrow minds.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

273 RTLM  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:30:37pm

OT
Surinam Pipa Toad (medium gross warning)

274 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:30:41pm

re: #252 NY Nana

chances are that he was probably trying to retrieve something.(wallet,glasses,etc.)i wouldn't have done it myself,but i cannot see the justification in suing the park.
you raise a very good point.he was someones kid.sad story really.

275 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:30:47pm

I'm going to open a bottle and raise a toast to hominids.

276 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:30:47pm

re: #209 reine.de.tout

murtaq - or something similar. Is that the one?

Yes.

277 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:31:03pm

re: #266 xleatherneck

#122 MandyManners
If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

I'm not advocating for Intelligent Design, but I am advocating that this website regain it's bearings and sanity...

This website was sane? Crap, what the URL for Sweetness and Light? If this place get 'sane' by xleathernecks standards, I. Am. Outy!

278 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:31:32pm

re: #273 RTLM

OT
Surinam Pipa Toad (medium gross warning)

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

That's cooool!

279 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:31:40pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

Ok,

280 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:28pm

re: #273 RTLM

OT
Surinam Pipa Toad (medium gross warning)

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Some Clearisel would help with that immediately.

281 ErnieG  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:34pm

All this talk of lizards and nutsacks has led us away from another important alternative to the Darwinian worldview and ID. What about the Turtles All The Way Down hypothesis? Turtles All The Way Down makes as much sense, and has as much place in the classroom as ID.

282 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:34pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Any more dramatic exits?

Kirly just did one in the Lounge about 1/2 an hour ago when the topic [ID] was mentioned. Left in a huff when some of us disagreed with her about Scripture.

283 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:52pm

re: #274 Boondock St. Bender

chances are that he was probably trying to retrieve something.(wallet,glasses,etc.)i wouldn't have done it myself,but i cannot see the justification in suing the park.
you raise a very good point.he was someones kid.sad story really.

nope, from the report the local Atlanta station just sent thru here (work) to CNN says he was part of a larger group that scaled both fences to get in free

284 loveguru  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:56pm

re: #251 Bat Boy

What must i do ? becuase i am not intellectual, and above that i am creationist....

Do you know, world Top Intellectual is a Creationist and Islamist.....

I was just trying to learn, how to accept acceptable language of those Torjan horses, and to learn how one can earn money from being a Creationist...

285 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:32:58pm

re: #212 loveguru

Funny... I always thought Mike Myers was a better speller.

/

OT: I saw him years ago when he was in Second City in Toronto and he was the brightest, funniest one in the whole show. With beautiful dark, auburn hair, to boot...

286 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:33:36pm

re: #281 ErnieG

All this talk of lizards and nutsacks has led us away from another important alternative to the Darwinian worldview and ID. What about the Turtles All The Way Down hypothesis? Turtles All The Way Down makes as much sense, and has as much place in the classroom as ID.

I have put forth a paper on the feasibility of it being guano all the way down.

287 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:33:44pm

re: #282 Honorary Yooper

That's not a surprise. I think Kirly made a dramatic exit from the comments section last week.

288 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:33:44pm

re: #242 xleatherneck

#113 DeathtotheSwiss
I have to say this is an issue that needs attention.

This is an issue that has no clear lines of demarcation (unlike the preeminent issue this website is intended for) and only causes chaos....something that we don't need right now. That's just my opinion though, comical as it is to some...


Wow. Your arrogance is breath-taking. This is not your blog. You don't have a say in how it's run.

289 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:01pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dont know yet. Science was busy proving the world was round, that the earth revolves around the sun, that man could fly and other such "truths" that were thought to be heretical at one time so the study of evolution has lagged a bit.

Somewhere in between, science was also busy proving that intelligence is related to skull size (craniometry), that darker skinned races are inferior, that mercury cures stomach upset, that infection is related to bad humours, that the soul is located in the Pineal Gland (Descartes), that love of foosball is located somewhere on the upper left section of the brain (phrenology), and history winds up in a utopian state after five stages of conflict.

Love of science and recognition of its power is commendable. Worship of science is dangerous, misplaced, and just as pathetic as the 4400-year Creationist causing a ruckus in a Kansas school.

290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:18pm

re: #281 ErnieG

All this talk of lizards and nutsacks has led us away from another important alternative to the Darwinian worldview and ID. What about the Turtles All The Way Down hypothesis? Turtles All The Way Down makes as much sense, and has as much place in the classroom as ID.

Only if we allow the Flying Spaghetti Monster equal time

291 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:31pm

To all, The point of keeping science as science is well taken.
My point is that I see it dangerous to our culture to remove God, or spirituality or faith from all public discussion. Perhaps science class is not the appropriate venue, but creationism could be explored in public school. Other controversial issues are. Having a theory openly discussed need not be an endorsement.
It would be a good thing to give evidence supporting both sides of an issue and let a student come up with their own conclusion.
It is not math where the is a definite provable answer.

292 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:40pm

re: #185 once and future angeleno

one idea, one party, one way to view biology?

The only people who should be talking about alternate ways to view biologists are people who have something concrete or revolutionary to the conversation. IDiots do not add anything, in fact they take away.

Microevolution has been proven, macroevolution is observable through paleontology. Read Neil Shubin's Your Inner Fish and explain why we haven't found fossils of woodchucks in the same rock as ancient now-extinct jelly-fish?

293 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:46pm

re: #283 sattv4u2

you've got to be kidding.stupid,what a waste.

294 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:34:48pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

Woohoo!

295 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:21pm

re: #287 Killgore Trout

That's not a surprise. I think Kirly made a dramatic exit from the comments section last week.

She got very upset when it was suggested that the first part of Genesis should be taken as allegory for what it can teach us.

296 MJ  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:21pm

re: #266 xleatherneck

"...but I am advocating that this website regain it's bearings and sanity..."

You know what Marx wrote:

"Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.”

You're free to resign.

297 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:25pm

re: #229 Globular Cluster

It doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand the Enlightenment roots of the Declaration of Independence.

Address their point. The influence of God on Western civilization, whether justified or not, has been been great, and is simply a fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

The influence of Judeo-Christian philosophy on Western civilization has been great, in my opinion. Do you think I have an issue with that?

However, I am not willing to turn over the faith teaching of my child to public school teachers. I will do it, or I will have her instructed in religion classes through our church. And in fact, she attends a Catholic school, and does indeed take religion classes. And she also takes science classes that are science.

298 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:39pm

re: #179 MandyManners

All fine, thanks. The little guy is in this picture. ;)

299 jaunte  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:53pm

Howard Ahmanson is a board member and major funder of the
Discovery Institute.
"During the 1970s, he became a disciple of R. J. Rushdoony, an Armenian cleric who preached the doctrine of "reconstructionism", a brand of Christian fundamentalism which advocates governance by Old Testament law." [Link: www.nndb.com...]

300 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:35:57pm

re: #281 ErnieG

Hook up with Lizard JCM, he's working very hard on it.

301 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:03pm

Greatest Dramatic exits of all time

T. Rex
Garth Brooks
The Dodo

302 wolfie  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:06pm

re: #262 godfrey

Ding! You are on a roll tonight!

303 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:12pm

re: #284 loveguru

What must i do ? becuase i am not intellectual, and above that i am creationist....

Do you know, world Top Intellectual is a Creationist and Islamist.....

I was just trying to learn, how to accept acceptable language of those Torjan horses, and to learn how one can earn money from being a Creationist...

Please make sure to use the / sarcasm tag when you talk about the top intelectual being some obscure Turkish religious leader. Please also note that Torjans have the tendency to break at the wrong moment. Bat Boy prefers Durex.

304 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:28pm

re: #259 Sharmuta

This is not an excuse to try to subvert the Constitution and the Establishment Clause.

This country was founded by people FLEEING theocracies- Christian theocracies, at that. Would you uphold only one aspect of our founding and deny another?

I don't. Why don't you read the ff'in document that Charles posted and do tell me where, from what I posted, ever on LGF, that I desire theocracy?

305 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:35pm

re: #217 Sabnen

Thank you for sharing that.

306 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:39pm

re: #229 Globular Cluster

It doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand the Enlightenment roots of the Declaration of Independence.

And, there is a lot I do not understand, I freely admit it.

307 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:36:40pm

re: #266 xleatherneck

#122 MandyManners
If we allow ID into public schools, Muslims will demand that their creation mythology be taught, too.

I'm not advocating for Intelligent Design, but I am advocating that this website regain it's bearings and sanity...

Again, this is not your blog.

308 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:37:01pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Any more dramatic exits?

I wandered through a drunken exit on last night's thread.

Hadn't seen Murqtaad in many moons. And probably won't ever again after that display.

309 opnion  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:37:47pm

re: #257 HoosierHoops

zero


Hey Hoosier. On an earlier link I gave you my compliments on raising Marines. You did a lot right.

310 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:37:50pm

#146 Honorary Yooper

Very disingenuous, you've dinged down quite a few articles on ID. Want me to show you?

Go fuck yourself, I've done no such thing.

311 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:14pm

re: #298 NY Nana

All fine, thanks. The little guy is in this picture. ;)

Aw, the little cutie is growing fast!

312 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:31pm

re: #302 wolfie

Actually, that should be tota simul.

Mea culpa.

313 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:33pm

re: #310 xleatherneck

#146 Honorary Yooper

Very disingenuous, you've dinged down quite a few articles on ID. Want me to show you?

Go fuck yourself, I've done no such thing.

Isn't that an evolutionary dead-end?

314 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:46pm

re: #281 ErnieG

All this talk of lizards and nutsacks has led us away from another important alternative to the Darwinian worldview and ID. What about the Turtles All The Way Down hypothesis? Turtles All The Way Down makes as much sense, and has as much place in the classroom as ID.

You are aware NASA is suppressing Hubble images supporting the Turtle theory?

315 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:48pm

re: #299 jaunte

Howard Ahmanson is a board member and major funder of the
Discovery Institute.
"During the 1970s, he became a disciple of R. J. Rushdoony, an Armenian cleric who preached the doctrine of "reconstructionism", a brand of Christian fundamentalism which advocates governance by Old Testament law." [Link: www.nndb.com...]

Have you sent that to Charles?

316 loveguru  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:38:54pm

re: #285 Josephine

I found it Ironic, how our society is once again moving on a way to describe what is a Religion, rather then describing what is not a Religion(and certainly killing Human on name of God is not religion).....

what ever, its 1926 events repeating in fast track... at least in 1926, they had to resist and execute a lot of Hindus to give way to ARyan race theory... this time there is hardly any resistance... and Freedom of Speech is Dammed for religious sensitivities...

317 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:39:13pm

The Discovery institute folks continually bring up Global warming theory being taught in school, and believe it or not it's something that should be.
Why? Because it's based on empirical evidence, and can be falsified by contrary evidence and fact, as Global Warming now is. Earlier I posted a link about Sunspot cycle 24 being already late by two months. If it cools, global warming will take a tremendous blow. You can already see the scientists jumping from that bandwagon by droves as more and more evidence comes in, and Al Gore isn't doing open interviews anymore. You think there might be a reason?

318 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:39:22pm

re: #304 Globular Cluster

I've read the Wedge, have you?

I've read "so what?" and don't believe them- do you?

319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:39:37pm

re: #289 Globular Cluster

I think there is plenty of room for both, in their proper place. Science separated from morality and manipulated by personal or societal bias is just as bad as Religion which ignores reality or seeks to oppress and silence non-believers.

320 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:39:47pm

re: #314 jcm

You are aware NASA is suppressing Hubble images supporting the Turtle theory?

HAHAHAHA. You owe me a new, non-juice covered screen! How are the kids?

321 ErnieG  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:40:01pm

re: #314 jcm

You are aware NASA is suppressing Hubble images supporting the Turtle theory?

LOL. Literally.

322 Summer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:40:04pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

Hey shithead,

Stop fucking insulting me.

I didn't insult you personally. In the time I've left to go to dinner and come back, you've taken it upon yourself (among others) to personally insult me.

Just because some of you don't like my stance on sarcasm tags, and don't like my reasons for not using them, doesn't mean you have to resort to schoolyard bully tactics.

Some of these claims from a few of you:

1) Claiming I'm a Democrat? (Where the fuck does that come from?)

2) Claiming that I'm a Paulnut? (Where the fuck did you get that one from? Learn how to fucking use Google and see what their opinion is of me.)

3) Claiming I'm a guy. (Huh?)

4) Saying I must be some sort of geeky nerd because of my opinions on sarcasm tags? (Fuck off)

5) Saying I have no right to my opinion about procedural etiquette because I don't have to spout off and reply to every topic? (Maybe I don't say something until it really needs saying - ever thought of that?)

And for what it's worth, I've been posting on and off LGF since the "Jenin Massacre" in 2002. I just didn't use this name until recently. I stopped for a while. I came back. I did so again a number of times.

You guys have pissed me off and personally insulted me for several posts. There was no reason for it. I didn't go around personally insulting people in that thread. I was making a commentary on general uses of sarcasm tags. If you took it personally, that's tough. But the fact that you reply by deliberately insulting me personally isn't the way to go about it and shows just how stupid you really can be.

Capito?

Oh wait...I'm sorry...

/rant

P.S. I didn't say I was leaving LGF. I said I was going out. No wonder some of you need sarcasm tags if you can't even read plain English.

323 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:40:30pm

re: #301 Shug

Greatest Dramatic exits of all time

T. Rex
Garth Brooks
The Dodo

Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove.

324 jaunte  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:40:43pm

re: #315 MandyManners

No, I was assuming he knew about it already. I know I've seen Thanos mention Rushdoony before.

325 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:06pm

re: #322 Summer

xanax
single malt

repeat

326 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:07pm

re: #291 n in wi

To all, The point of keeping science as science is well taken.
My point is that I see it dangerous to our culture to remove God, or spirituality or faith from all public discussion. Perhaps science class is not the appropriate venue, but creationism could be explored in public school. Other controversial issues are. Having a theory openly discussed need not be an endorsement.
It would be a good thing to give evidence supporting both sides of an issue and let a student come up with their own conclusion.
It is not math where the is a definite provable answer.

It is. There are many history courses that teach comparative world religion.

327 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:32pm

re: #259 Sharmuta

This is not an excuse to try to subvert the Constitution and the Establishment Clause.

This country was founded by people FLEEING theocracies- Christian theocracies, at that. Would you uphold only one aspect of our founding and deny another?

Would you uphold one part of the establishment clause and not another ?
The whole amendment says Congress shall establish no religion, Nor inhibit the expression of.
And I am paraphrasing.

328 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:33pm

re: #308 JammieWearingFool

Threats of murder and ass-whuppins don't seem to go over well with the blog owner.

329 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:34pm

re: #313 Bat Boy

Isn't that an evolutionary dead-end?

*snicker*

330 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:41:44pm

re: #320 Bat Boy

HAHAHAHA. You owe me a new, non-juice covered screen! How are the kids?

Doing great, smarter than 'ole dad and twice as fast. But I make up for with old age and treachery.

331 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:01pm

re: #316 loveguru

and Freedom of Speech is Dammed for religious sensitivities...

not around adults it isn't,trouble starts when those who behave like children cannot stand that others think differently than themselves.

332 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:09pm

re: #329 MandyManners

*snicker*

Hiya Mandy!

333 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:34pm

re: #264 Thanos

ding ding ding AND hearted.

334 joecitizen  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:44pm

re: #207 n in wi

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total


cool..over 200 comments before someone broke this stupid out...way to go yec's!

335 loveguru  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:59pm

re: #303 Bat Boy

Please make sure to use the / sarcasm tag when you talk about the top intelectual being some obscure Turkish religious leader. Please also note that Torjans have the tendency to break at the wrong moment. Bat Boy prefers Durex.

Durex might be better... as Billy boy was the reason to mount Turkish Islamist Creationist at Worlds top intellactual 2008® place !

336 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:42:59pm

re: #322 Summer

Can I have your baby ?

337 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:43:10pm

re: #295 Honorary Yooper

It's a bummer. We've lost a lot of long time lizards over this. It's just about as divisive and the Vlaams Belang thing.

338 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:43:11pm

re: #330 jcm

lol

Plus, you get discounts.

339 eclectic infidel  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:43:44pm

re: #19 wrenchwench

Yeah, cats eat lizards!

Not mine. If they saw one, they'd probably assume it's a very, very small weird cat and try to play with it.

340 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:43:53pm

re: #332 Bat Boy

Hiya' Bat Boy! That's one freaky avatar.

341 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:01pm

re: #308 JammieWearingFool

I wandered through a drunken exit on last night's thread.

Hadn't seen Murqtaad in many moons. And probably won't ever again after that display.

Jammie,

He was deservedly banned.

342 wolfie  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:09pm

re: #312 godfrey

Deus te perdonabit !

343 Anna D  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:10pm

I'm much less concerned about some ID manifesto than I am about the Muslim Brotherhood's manifesto. This site should focus on Islamism and quit worrying about Darwin. He will sink or swim on his own. Science and God are not mutually exclusive. I can see the wonder and awe in mitochondria as I scientifically examine their structure and function.

344 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:13pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here is a question for a creationist: You're saying God's plan could not cover billions of years and rely on a process called evolution to work? Plenty of other of God's miracles have an observable scientific procss, why discount evolution as another of his miracles?

You will never see this question answered. My dad answers it by saying evolution is possible, but so is ID. Then we argue politics and science for hours on end enjoying every minute of it.

345 Salamantis  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:15pm

re: #207 n in wi

Are there not other Theories thought in science class?
Lets say maybe ,man made global warming.
Creationism and evolution both could be considered theory as neither can be completely proved or disproved in total

That evolution happens is a fact. That it happens via mutation and natural selection is a fact. That the mechanism in which the mutations occurs is DNA is a fact. That the mechanism by means of which natural selection occurs is the surrounding environment is a fact.

There are certain details that have not yet been fully fleshed out, and the scientific debate concerning them is robust, but the basic core of evolution is beyond all rational dispute. The thousands of identical artifactual retroviral DNA sequences found in the identical locations in our DNA and in the DNA of our closest primate relatives, the repeatable evolution of citric acid metabolizing capacity in E. Coli in laboratories, the continuous filling in of our fossil records, and millions upon millions of observed data aggregate into a massive and irrefutable mountain of empirical evidence.

Please present to me a single scientific support for creationism. You can't. It isn't testable, and thus is not science, but religion.

346 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:41pm

re: #341 NY Nana

I have never seen anybody here who was banned and didn't deserve it.

347 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:43pm

re: #336 sattv4u2

Can I have your baby ?

I believe she offered sex a number of times. But be careful at first. Use a Torjan.

348 jcm  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:44:46pm

re: #338 godfrey

lol

Plus, you get discounts.

I always wondered how my dad always knew what I was up to...

349 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:03pm

re: #318 Sharmuta

I've read the Wedge, have you?

I've read "so what?" and don't believe them- do you?

You don't believe them? Oh. Very scientific. I guess there's nothing to talk about then, since you simply don't believe anything that doesn't suit you.

Yes, I've read the Wedge Document. You say you've read the DI response? Oh well, I just don't believe you.

350 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:21pm

re: #327 n in wi

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Thankfully- I can quote myself:

I'm going to beat this horse within an inch of it's life.

First off- the second part IN NO WAY invalidates the first part.

Second- laws promoting the teachings of Biblical creation would in fact be passing laws "respecting" an establishment of religion.

Third- government cannot stop a private school from teaching whatever they want on this matter. Government cannot stop a private organization such as a Church or mosque from preaching whatever they want on this subject.

Fourth- government IS told they cannot impose an established state religion or pass laws stopping people from practicing their religion. If you cannot grasp how legislating the teachings of Biblical Creation intrudes on the Rights of non-Christians on both counts of the First Amendment, then I just can't help you.

351 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:21pm

re: #324 jaunte

No, I was assuming he knew about it already. I know I've seen Thanos mention Rushdoony before.

There's a couple links to old articles in spinoffs above, they younger Rushdoony and Ahmanson have softened, they've backed away from "stone all gays and adulterers to death" kind of speaking, but the sentiment and vitriol remains, as you can see if you take a leafing through the Chalcedon website.

352 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:27pm

re: #336 sattv4u2

dude we discussed this,it's only gonna turn out bad.

353 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:31pm

re: #340 MandyManners

Hiya' Bat Boy! That's one freaky avatar.

You should see me hungover!

354 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:45:57pm

re: #349 Globular Cluster

So what?

355 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:46:08pm

re: #342 wolfie

Deus te perdonabitbat !

Fixed it for you.

356 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:46:10pm

#183 Thanos
I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.


If you have an issue with anything I'm saying, then be a man and address it, rather than behave like a paranoid juvenile. It doesn't speak well for you or this site...

357 reno911  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:47:12pm

Who designed the creationist who taught Darwin about science?

358 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:47:52pm

re: #301 Shug

Greatest Dramatic exits of all time

T. Rex
Garth Brooks
The Dodo

Vanilla ice
billy ray Cyrus
Britney spears

359 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:47:59pm

re: #347 Bat Boy

I believe she offered sex a number of times. But be careful at first. Use a Torjan.

so her "FUCK OFF"s is foreplay!

360 solomonpanting  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:48:08pm
#191 Shug

re: #37 solomonpanting


If man conservatives evolved from monkeys moonbats and apes progressives , why do we still have monkeys and apes? moonbats and progressives

Shug

Discuss

Perhaps the line of evolution is inverted here?
;P

361 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:48:28pm

re: #349 Globular Cluster

Do you believe vlaams belang when they say they're not fascists? Or did you look at their overall record and think they were disingenuous?

I don't believe vlaams belang, and I don't believe the disco institute for the same reason- THEY ARE DISINGENUOUS.

362 freetoken  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:48:35pm

re: #337 Killgore Trout

This issue is not one that will be easily reconcilable to many lizards, I think, especially those who see it as a personal attack on their belief system.

My approach has been to view it (and discuss it) as being a civics problem. E.g., from a link I posted earlier today (on a recent Stein interview):

Although the judge in the 2005 Dover, Pa., trial that put the Darwinian debate on the witness stand ruled strongly against efforts to inject intelligent design into school science curricula, Stein is nonplussed. "That was one judge in one robe in one courtroom," he says. "When I was a child, there were judges who said blacks could not go to school with whites and judges who allowed anti-Jewish covenants in housing contracts. The law is just what judges say about it at any one time. And science is not supposed to be worked out by clever lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union."

So, according to Stein creationism isn't allowed in public schools only because of "one judge in one robe in one courtroom." If he really believes that, and if many Americans do also, then our civics education is as bad (or worse) than our science education.

363 Karridine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:48:46pm

re: #350 Sharmuta

Accurate, concise and well-stated, Sharmy!

364 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:48:52pm

re: #356 xleatherneck

#183 Thanos
I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.


If you have an issue with anything I'm saying, then be a man and address it, rather than behave like a paranoid juvenile. It doesn't speak well for you or this site...

He. Doesn't. Think. You. Are. Genuine. Possibly. He. Thinks. You. Are. An. Asshole.

Can I be called 'Bat Man' now for addressing it clearly and directly?

365 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:49:13pm

re: #359 sattv4u2

so her "FUCK OFF"s is foreplay!

Consider it her kink.

366 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:49:16pm

re: #328 Slumbering Behemoth

Threats of murder and ass-whuppins don't seem to go over well with the blog owner.

I didn't think so.

367 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:49:30pm

re: #361 Sharmuta
still can't get over the name "the disco institute"

368 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:49:49pm

re: #325 Shug

xanax
single malt

repeat

fixed

369 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:06pm

re: #365 Bat Boy

Consider it her kink.

I'm getting moist !

370 xleatherneck  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:06pm

#186 MandyManners

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

I was wondering about that, too.

The one person I didn't expect to display a cult mentality.

I'm disappointed in you.....

371 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:10pm

re: #327 n in wi

Would you uphold one part of the establishment clause and not another ?
The whole amendment says Congress shall establish no religion, Nor inhibit the expression of.
And I am paraphrasing.

And you know . . . let's just say that there was no such thing as the "establishment clause". Just pretend for a moment.

In the pursuit of the best possible education for our children, wouldn't we still want faith and religion taught at home and/or in church or religion or philosophy, or maybe even history classes, and science in science classes?

372 BBev  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:12pm

re: #322 Summer

Hey shithead,

Stop fucking insulting me.

I didn't insult you personally. In the time I've left to go to dinner and come back, you've taken it upon yourself (among others) to personally insult me.

Just because some of you don't like my stance on sarcasm tags, and don't like my reasons for not using them, doesn't mean you have to resort to schoolyard bully tactics.

Some of these claims from a few of you:

1) Claiming I'm a Democrat? (Where the fuck does that come from?)

2) Claiming that I'm a Paulnut? (Where the fuck did you get that one from? Learn how to fucking use Google and see what their opinion is of me.)

3) Claiming I'm a guy. (Huh?)

4) Saying I must be some sort of geeky nerd because of my opinions on sarcasm tags? (Fuck off)

5) Saying I have no right to my opinion about procedural etiquette because I don't have to spout off and reply to every topic? (Maybe I don't say something until it really needs saying - ever thought of that?)

And for what it's worth, I've been posting on and off LGF since the "Jenin Massacre" in 2002. I just didn't use this name until recently. I stopped for a while. I came back. I did so again a number of times.

You guys have pissed me off and personally insulted me for several posts. There was no reason for it. I didn't go around personally insulting people in that thread. I was making a commentary on general uses of sarcasm tags. If you took it personally, that's tough. But the fact that you reply by deliberately insulting me personally isn't the way to go about it and shows just how stupid you really can be.

Capito?

Oh wait...I'm sorry...

/rant

P.S. I didn't say I was leaving LGF. I said I was going out. No wonder some of you need sarcasm tags if you can't even read plain English.

Ya OK, you have said it all but please use a "Sarc tag"

373 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:33pm

re: #311 MandyManners

Aw, the little cutie is growing fast!

Thanks. He will be 2 in August....and he now sings and is on tune...not from our side of the family. NY Grampa and I are both perfect monotones, but our kids and grandkids are all great singers. Go figure!

374 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:37pm

By the way, Darwin's Origin of Species (6th edn.) begins with three quotations:

"But with regard to the material world, we can at least go so far as this-- we can perceive that events are brought about not by insulated interpositions of Divine power, exerted in each particular case, but by the establishment of general laws."--Whewell: "Bridgewater Treatise".

"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is STATED, FIXED or SETTLED; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for once."--Butler: "Analogy of Revealed Religion".

"To conclude, therefore, let no man out of a weak conceit of sobriety, or
an ill-applied moderation, think or maintain, that a man can search too far
or be too well studied in the book of God's word, or in the book of God's
works; divinity or philosophy; but rather let men endeavour an endless
progress or proficience in both." -- Bacon: "Advancement of Learning".

375 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:50:49pm

re: #365 Bat Boy

Consider it her kink.

I would think that would be her dismount, not foreplay

376 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:51:20pm

re: #367 Boondock St. Bender

still can't get over the name "the disco institute"

Killgore coined a good one.

I'm just glad he's moved on to the Space Pope- I see it as a good diss at the disco institute since the "creator" could be aliens with their wide open definition.

377 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:51:39pm

re: #370 xleatherneck

I'm sure she crushed!

378 Summer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:51:46pm

re: #372 BBev

No, I didn't say it all. They're still insulting me.

379 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:51:48pm

re: #372 BBev

Ya OK, you have said it all but please use a "Sarc tag"

I know what we should do. Everytime SUMMER posts withOUT a sarc tag, we should all use 2 on our next post !

380 Thanos  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:52:12pm

X, we are dissapointed in you as well.

381 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:52:34pm

re: #353 Bat Boy

You should see me hungover!

Must be quite the sight.

382 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:52:38pm

re: #372 BBev

Or better still. Petition Charles that a SARC TAG is AUTOMATICALLY placed at the end of EVERY post !

383 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:08pm

re: #382 sattv4u2

you forgot the sarc tag

384 BBev  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:16pm

re: #379 sattv4u2

I know what we should do. Everytime SUMMER posts withOUT a sarc tag, we should all use 2 on our next post !

I have to make dinner, I will be back for the fun

385 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:27pm

re: #372 BBev

apparently foul language,and anatomical impossabilities are fine,just don't use a sarc tag....this is a tough room.

/

386 ErnieG  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:31pm

re: #382 sattv4u2

Or better still. Petition Charles that a SARC TAG is AUTOMATICALLY placed at the end of EVERY post !

/sarc

387 reno911  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:45pm

What's a sarc tag?

388 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:50pm

re: #382 sattv4u2

Or better still. Petition Charles that a SARC TAG is AUTOMATICALLY placed at the end of EVERY post !

/sarc

whew..feel better

389 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:53:54pm

re: #378 Summer

No, I didn't say it all. They're still insulting me.

Did you get that thin skin from the same place Obama got his?

(damn , there I go again ,,, BAD SATT ,,, BAD BAD BAD ! )

390 Summer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:02pm

re: #385 Boondock St. Bender

Oh, but it's okay to insult me for post after post?

391 wolfie  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:07pm

re: #317 Thanos

The Discovery institute folks continually bring up Global warming theory being taught in school, and believe it or not it's something that should be.
Why? Because it's based on empirical evidence, and can be falsified by contrary evidence and fact, as Global Warming now is. Earlier I posted a link about Sunspot cycle 24 being already late by two months. If it cools, global warming will take a tremendous blow. You can already see the scientists jumping from that bandwagon by droves as more and more evidence comes in, and Al Gore isn't doing open interviews anymore. You think there might be a reason?

I disagree with you. I do not think anything should be taught in public schools (K-12) that is not established science.
You are right that AGW, unlike ID theories, falls into the category of science because it is subject to emprical proof or disproof. But I woild like any new material like this to stand the test of time before being presented in a basic science course.
Kids are not prepared to make judgments about the relative validity of new theories. Save those for college majors who have mastered some of the basics first.

And BTW, for ten years kids have been indoctrinated about AGW.....and it still continues. It has been taught as indisputable fact to millions. Who knows when, if ever, the schools will catch up w/ developing data? Chances are, they won't....not ever. They'll just move on to the next fad w/o missing a step.

392 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:08pm

I'm gonna go get some....

/sleep

393 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:12pm

re: #361 Sharmuta

Do you believe vlaams belang when they say they're not fascists? Or did you look at their overall record and think they were disingenuous?

I don't believe vlaams belang, and I don't believe the disco institute for the same reason- THEY ARE DISINGENUOUS.

There is plenty of evidence that vlaams and the BNP are fascist. What's astonishing about the Wedge document is how ho-hum it actually is. DI is what? Twelve fellows, not including the board?

394 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:18pm

re: #346 Shug

I have never seen anybody here who was banned and didn't deserve it.

Nor have I. Amazing how some have the chutzpah to return as sockpuppets, but like the Mounties, Charles always gets the man...or female. Some take a bit longer than others. but invariably...

395 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:34pm

re: #375 Shug

I would think that would be her dismount, not foreplay

So, do you think she jumps to the floor from the bed, arches her back, throws her arms in the air like Evita, and yells 'Fuck Off'? So things get good when you see her chalking her hands stepping up to the bed and yelling 'Fuck On'? How long do you think the routine lasts? Is there a floor routine? Is she judged on flexibility? Is there peppy music playing? These are things to know.

396 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #376 Sharmuta

I think you and i lobbied heavily for the space pope.and kilgore listened.
DEMOCRACY WORKS!

397 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:44pm

re: #390 Summer

Oh, but it's okay to insult me for post after post?


I won't.
You're doing a good enough job of that yourself

398 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:45pm

re: #383 Shug

you forgot the sarc tag

I'm printing signs and T-Shirts

AUTO SARC TAGS
AUTO SARC TAGS
AUTO SARC TAGS

399 Honorary Yooper  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:54:48pm

re: #337 Killgore Trout

It's a bummer. We've lost a lot of long time lizards over this. It's just about as divisive and the Vlaams Belang thing.

Yeah, who thought then that the VB and their ilk had so many supporters?

Just remember, there are no sacred cows, and this issue is a sacred cow to some, and it's getting BBQ'd here.

400 Josephine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:55:14pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Any more dramatic exits?

The night is young.

401 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:55:23pm

re: #383 Shug

you forgot the sarc tag

/I think sarc tags are pretty ff'in gay.

So is writing stuff like this.

402 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:55:33pm

re: #393 Globular Cluster

Did you, you know, read the links in my #7? I have more, if you want.

403 DeathtotheSwiss  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:00pm

re: #370 xleatherneck

#186 MandyManners

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

I was wondering about that, too.

The one person I didn't expect to display a cult mentality.

I'm disappointed in you.....


I'm not one of the people who think you're planted. I'm just somebody who sees you as the conformist who is trying to tell Charles how he should run his website.

What gets me is, this isn't the first post about the subject that Charles has posted, and yet the Lizard population is still incredibly thick. You've misjudged how many allies on this subject that you have and the fact that this website is still around proves it.

If you only want to read posts where you, Charles and everyone agree with eachother then maybe you should stick to the terrorism posts. But realize that, regardless of the site's popularity, it is still owned by one Charles Johnson and will contain posts about his thoughts and views. The thing is, I don't agree with Chuck all the time, and I'm not telling him how he should do things, why are you?

404 Summer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:04pm

re: #397 Shug

Please explain how.

Because I responded after being insulted for several posts while I was away?

405 Bat Boy  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:19pm

re: #400 Josephine

The night is young.

And most of us are still sober.

406 Globular Cluster  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:38pm

re: #402 Sharmuta

Did you, you know, read the links in my #7? I have more, if you want.

I don't believe you.

407 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:43pm

re: #378 Summer

summer,we're having fun with you.there's a difference.

408 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:56:46pm

re: #370 xleatherneck

#186 MandyManners

I've long thought xleatherneck to be a moby from the far right, no real leatherneck would place an "x" in front of it.

I was wondering about that, too.

The one person I didn't expect to display a cult mentality.

I'm disappointed in you.....

Agreeing with someone makes me a member of a cult?

409 slokat  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:06pm

Muslim Creation

A definition of evolution
Unfortunately this guy shoots himself in the foot right at the start...

So let me just start off by briefly going over a few things that all modern scientists and most people who have had the opportunity to learn basic scientific facts know to be true--as definitely and undeniably true as the fact that the earth is not flat or that it goes around the sun.

Top Ten countdown of creation stories

I've been reading while you all argue in the other room.... it would help if some of you knew how to manage volume control.

/

410 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:10pm

re: #405 Bat Boy

And most of us are still sober.

And fully dressed.

Or are we.......

411 godfrey  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:13pm

More Darwin:

many naturalists think that something more is meant by the Natural System; they believe that it reveals the plan of the Creator; but unless it be specified whether order in time or space, or both, or what else is meant by the plan of the Creator, it seems to me that nothing is thus added to our knowledge

Then there is this:

To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual. When I view all beings not as special creations, but as the lineal descendants of some few beings which lived long before the first bed of the Cambrian system was deposited, they seem to me to become ennobled.

By the way, Darwin wrote beautifully. I wish all scientists could write so well.

412 n in wi  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:17pm

re: #371 reine.de.tout

I've said as much in my previous post.

413 Karridine  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:18pm

re: #378 Summer

Do YOU have the power to perceive THEIR comments as 'on-target' OR as 'off-target'?

If YOUR perceptions are under YOUR control, cannot YOU CHOOSE TO PERCEIVE their comments as inaccurate, ill-informed and non-descriptive?

It is, after all, YOUR CHOICE, Summer...

414 ErnieG  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:18pm

re: #405 Bat Boy

And most of us are still sober.

I'm working on that. (See avatar.)

415 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:19pm
Johnson calls his movement "The Wedge." The objective, he said, is to convince people that Darwinism is inherently atheistic, thus shifting the debate from creationism vs. evolution to the existence of God vs. the non-existence of God. From there people are introduced to "the truth" of the Bible and then "the question of sin" and finally "introduced to Jesus."

But hey! So what?

/source

416 Fredlike  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:29pm

I have been staying out of these ID discussions, but I must say at least Charles is giving people a forum to respond. The Wedge issue however does not appear to be all that timely given the 1999 date of the memo and the 2003 response.

The response clearly states the the DI is not anti-science but is anti scientific-materialism and that they had a plan and probably have a revised one by now to do their best to support the fight against materialism as a philosophy.

I am not a supporter of ID or the Discovery Institute but I say what's wrong with supporting what you believe.

417 Shug  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:31pm

re: #404 Summer

Please explain how.

Because I responded whined over and over after being insulted for several posts while I was away?


fixed

(no / )

418 Dan G.  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:32pm

re: #317 Thanos

Yes, there seems to be a disconnect with the concept of observations (warming) and the theories that explain them (CO2 vs. the sun). The IDer's, I believe, even deny the observations of evolution (i.e. fossils), not just the theory of how it happened (mutations etc...).

419 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:57:42pm

re: #406 Globular Cluster

You're a petty ass.

420 Summer  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:58:10pm

re: #407 Boondock St. Bender

You're not. You were insulting me. Several of you were. I didn't personally insult any of you. Now I'm pissed off. If I went around claiming you must be a Democrat because of your ideas on sarcasm tags, and then saying you had your head stuck up your ass, that you were a Paulnut, that you were disingenuous in your identity, and other such things, you'd probably get pissed off as well.

421 jaunte  Sat, Jun 28, 2008 6:58:25pm

Disco Institute music: