RIP, Senator Helms.

God bless his.
Rest in Peace, dear man.

What a fitting day to enter the gates of heaven. RIP, and our sincere condolences to the Helm family.

HuffPost quickly shut down comments.

Who said the left would be miserable on the 4th of July?

Rest In Peace

rest in peace, Senator.

Helms was known as "Senator No" for his staunch opposition to an array of liberal causes, including affirmative action, funding for the arts, gay rights, and a holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

...Yowza. I get the first one, but this is getting real reactionary here...

re: #4 JammieWearingFool

The difference between Right and Left.

Opinionated, but without a doubt, an American

re: #8 Carolyn

The difference between Right and Left wrong.

Kos kiddies celebrating in 5, 4, 3...

Actually the difference between Right and Left wrong.

re: #11 The Other Les

Kos kiddies celebrating in 5, 4, 3...

Already.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Wow, the derision!

re: #3 ladycatnip

I think Senator Helms would feel honored to have left us on Independence Day.

re: #11 The Other Les
KKKos kidz already pissing on his grave. The left is sooo tolerant.////

In the Olde Dayes, Jesse Helms epitomized everything I mocked in a politician. His very name was a synonym for "ignorant intolerance" in the milieu I grew up in.

Now, I have a very different perspective. While I still disagree with some of his positions, I now agree with others.

re: #12 Carolyn

Actually the difference between Right and Left wrong.

I fixed it for ya.

re: #10 VegasRick

Two minds....

re: #7 laZardo

Helms was known as "Senator No" for his staunch opposition to an array of liberal causes, including affirmative action, funding for the arts, gay rights, and a holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

...Yowza. I get the first one, but this is getting real reactionary here...

He was a man of his time and place.

re: #18 Carolyn

Two minds....

One thought.

re: #13 mean Gene

Already.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Wow, the derision!

That deserves a quote from the Kos diary:

Jesse Helms, you rat bastard, burn in hell.
by Al Obama

Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 09:02:30 AM PDT

Please dear God, let there really be a hell. Because if there really IS a hell then Jesse Helms is already consumed by it's lowest depths. He's wailing for eternity with his blood brothers; Adolf, Mao, Stalin and the rest of the worst of the subset of human beings who have crossed from mere mortal to eternal evil. Satanic. Jesse joins his kin, Strom Thurmond, Bull Connor and a host of other vicious racist fucks who have taken it upon themselves to very nearly ruin the core principle that this country was founded upon: equality.

re: #16 zombie

I always thought he was one of those "old crones" who for some reason or another kept getting elected to the Senate time and time again (see Thurmond). Of course at that age they were simply there for the MAD Magazine humor value.

re: #13 mean Gene

Already.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Wow, the derision!

And the usual morons over at Fark, too.

re: #11 The Other Les

Kos kiddies celebrating in 5, 4, 3...

They already are.

I've grabbed some snippets from four or five blogs. It's ugly already.

Koskidz are celebrating...

Jesse Helms, you rat bastard, burn in hell.

A moment of anachronism for Jesse Helms death

Please Excuse Me While I Dance Upon His Grave

Jesse Helms Dead - How to Memorialize His Legacy

The comments are the most vile I've seen over there.

Check the URL...

"good riddance"

[Link: www.wral.com...]

re: #19 MandyManners

A long, long time ago, it seemed. Why he kept getting elected like his ______genarian South Carolina counterpart is still a mystery to me.

re: #16 zombie

In the Olde Dayes, Jesse Helms epitomized everything I mocked in a politician. His very name was a synonym for "ignorant intolerance" in the milieu I grew up in.

Now, I have a very different perspective. While I still disagree with some of his positions, I now agree with others.

That's says it all for many of us, probably.

I was against giving the government employees another paid day off and calling it Martin Luther King day. Does that make me a racist?

re: #26 NJDhockeyfan
"The comments are the most vile I've seen over there." WOW, that's really saying something. I'll confess to never having been a fan of Senator Helms, but rejoicing in his death is totally repugnant to me.

re: #7 laZardo

reactionary

With respect, and IMHO, the use of that particular word to describe a conservative like Helms is a matter of perspective. It seems to me to indicate that the speaker is self-conscious of "being out on the leading edge", is looking back at someone, and is making a value judgement about him. From the conservative's perspective, the "leading edge" is simply not the place to be. Both fall under opinion. Value judgements.

/did not always agree with Helms

He shares the date of his passing with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, what a great statesman!

re: #16 zombie

Me, too. And, 28 years ago (i.e., the Olde Dayes), I was invited for lunch in the Senate Dining Room. Jesse Helms was at the next table. RIP, Senator.

Posted my comment on the last thread. Kos is KOs but a MMM attack is different. When does licencing time come around for WRAL?

re: #27 efuseakay

Check the URL...

"good riddance"

[Link: www.wral.com...]

Eh, nevermind.... u can put anything after the question mark in the url and the same page comes up...

What I used to really dislike him for was his opposition to "art," deeming everything he saw as obscene.

Now, as an adult, I see he was opposing public funding of art with huge needless grants -- and that much of the art he opposed funding for was absolute crap. I disagree with him that it was "obscene" (I couldn't care a rat's ass about that aspect), but he was right to fight funding for these utterly talentless and awful modern "artists." Make what you want , but don't force me to subsidize you.

For that, I thank you Jesse, whatever other faults you may have had.

re: #7 laZardo

Helms has to be placed in the context of the era he grew up in. That's not excusing some of his opinions, it's understanding where they came from.

He was not always great, or even good, but I believe he did try.

In any case, RIP, and condolences to his family.

Ummm...HuffPost and Kos are thataway.

Helms was an unrepentant homophobe and had other prejudices left over from his upbringing, and these are marks against him; on the other hand, he loved his country and bent every effort to secure it. He was not a likable man, or a perfect one, but I hope he rests in peace.

re: #30 Dave the.....
Depends. Would you also have opposed a Robert Kennedy Day or a Barry Goldwater Day?
Was it just the idea of giving people a paid day off that got to you?

re: #21 Uncle Sticky

No. 40 to you.

BBL

Did not agree with this man on a lot of things, but he did speak his mind, did not speak out of both sides of his mouth and was not IIRC a member of the Klan like that old fool from W. Vir. Suppose the kkos kidz will celebrate when Grand Kleagle Byrd shuffles off this mortal coil?

re: #31 realwest

"The comments are the most vile I've seen over there." WOW, that's really saying something. I'll confess to never having been a fan of Senator Helms, but rejoicing in his death is totally repugnant to me.

And they want to rule over us too.

re: #30 Dave the.....

I was against giving the government employees another paid day off and calling it Martin Luther King day. Does that make me a racist?

No, just a curmudgeon.

;^)

re: #38 zombie

That's it. My taxes shouldn't subsidize "Piss Christ". I'm not sure anymore that art should be subsidized at all.

re: #35 lifeofthemind
Uh, what's an MMM attack?

re: #27 efuseakay

Check the URL...

"good riddance"

[Link: www.wral.com...]

Unreal.

re: #39 Dianna

Still, that "era" he was placed in seems to narrowly predate that of my parents. One historical-cultural shift I'm pretty sure of was that the "sexual revolutions" of the 60s were a violent release of those pent-up rages continuously held back in the decades preceding.

re: #28 laZardo

A long, long time ago, it seemed. Why he kept getting elected like his ______genarian South Carolina counterpart is still a mystery to me.

Heaven help me but, for all your prodigious intelligence and education, you're kinda' young and you've not lived as an American through the Cold War, especially the Reagan years when we had Communism on the run. Helms was a staunch ally to the forces against it.

re: #45 pingjockey

No.

Seems as though the HuffPo crowd needs to learn the parable about the King who forgives a debt , then on discovering the man he forgave demanded payment of a debt owed to him , calls the original debt.
Who are you to throw stones?

re: #38 zombie

Well, a government artist is an incompetent whore, as Heinlein pointed out.

re: #30 Dave the.....
Depends. Would you also have opposed a Robert Kennedy Day or a Barry Goldwater Day?
Was it just the idea of giving people a paid day off that got to you?

Yep. One of the options at least one state was giving it's employees (Arizona I think) was to make a trade. Loss one of their paid days off in exchange for getting MLK off from work. Gov't employees turned it down, saying they wanted more time off.

re: #47 cutestguy
130 comments in 4 years.

re: #28 laZardo

BTW, I wasn't trying to be condescending. I apologize if it came out that way.

re: #50 realwest

Uh, what's an MMM attack?

Multiple Midget Mutilators?

The Koz Kids: revealing themselves for what they are.

re: #30 Dave the.....

I was against giving the government employees another paid day off and calling it Martin Luther King day. Does that make me a racist?

No, just a curmudgeon.

;^)

Hey, I was only about 14 or 15 when most states (and the fed'l gov't) enacted this.

re: #53 MandyManners

The first major Cold War I lived through was the Oliver North scandal, go figure. As it was, I could easily imagine Helms as a staunch anti-Communist though. Animosity toward the "Reds/Pinkos" dates back past my grandparents.

re: #50 realwest

Uh, what's an MMM attack?

Sorry mistyped MSM, main stream media. Got excited.

MMM=Moronic Mainstream(heh) Media

re: #49 Perry

That's it. My taxes shouldn't subsidize "Piss Christ". I'm not sure anymore that art should be subsidized at all.

Privately-funded arts grants, sure, but government subsidies, ummm... no.

re: #62 cutestguy

Have you seen any more of those lately?

re: #67 Spiny Norman

Let em find a patron.

Did he die today? Interesting.
Does everyone else know the story of Jefferson's death?
He and John Adams were rivals, but they reconciled in old age.
On the 50th aniversary of July 4th 1776, Thomas Jefferson died, hours apart from his old foe but dear friend.
It's one of the coolest little stories of American History that is rarely taught, ime.

re: #64 laZardo

PIMF the first major Cold War event I lived through.

The Iran-Contra affair was already taking place but the first indictments were a few months after I was born.

re: #62 cutestguy
I don't know art, I do know the Sistine Chapel is art and a crusifix in a jar of urine ain't.

re: #65 lifeofthemind

MSM = Moonbat Spin Machine?

re: #52 laZardo

I wouldn't really know about the last, but I would remark that there are distinct differences in racial attitudes among older people (call it 70 and above) depending on where they grew up. I'm sure someone did a formal survey, somewhere.

Helms was a product of time and place, as are we all.

re: #71 laZardo
Goddamn kids! :)

re: #72 pingjockey

I don't know art, I do know the Sistine Chapel is art and a crusifix in a jar of urine ain't.

Bingo!

I'm going to make a cheeseburger. Cub food is now selling Havarti in sandwich sized slices. (I think it's from Wisconsin though.)

re: #64 laZardo

Ah...when do you think the Soviet Union broke up?

re: #42 realwest

Depends. Would you also have opposed a Robert Kennedy Day or a Barry Goldwater Day?
Was it just the idea of giving people a paid day off that got to you?

Ir's worth noting that MLK Jr is the only person to have a holiday, short of Jesus, anyway. He was a great man, but the best?
I'm not against it, but I see the point. Let's let Lincoln and Washington have their own days first, then it would be fitting.

re: #67 Spiny Norman

I don't have a problem with the purchase of art for a public space, such as the bronzes of Willy Mayes at AT&T Park. I worry about commissioned art, though. Then you get a bust of Mayor Moscone with a pistol on the pedestal, to the great distress and offense of his family.

re: #56 Dianna

Well, a government artist is an incompetent whore, as Heinlein pointed out.

IMHO, "Stranger in a Strange Land" put him into the same category. He was brazenly whoring for the Sixties.

/read it when it came out

re: #64 laZardo

The first major Cold War I lived through was the Oliver North scandal, go figure. As it was, I could easily imagine Helms as a staunch anti-Communist though. Animosity toward the "Reds/Pinkos" dates back past my grandparents.

I thought you were in your late teens/early 20s.

re: #80 nikis-knight No dispute here, but is MLK Day the reason why we lumped Lincoln and Washington into "Presidents Day"?

Holy crap, went to check on another posters number of comments and just for fun checked mine. 5 more to 6k. I talk too much!

re: #71 laZardo

PIMF the first major Cold War event I lived through.

The Iran-Contra affair was already taking place but the first indictments were a few months after I was born.

Ah. That makes more sense.

re: #78 Dianna

1991. Berlin Wall and Solidarity '89, Re-unification 1990. I think it was '93-ish that the CIS became the RF.

I like to think of my two bros as Gulf War Brothers because they were born not long before and not long after it ended.

re: #84 realwest

No dispute here, but is MLK Day the reason why we lumped Lincoln and Washington into "Presidents Day"?

I would doubt it, but the point isn't a causal one, but one of priorities.

I live in NC. I disliked Jesse for many things. Before I understood him. I respect the man though I tend to disagree on different things he espoused. I never voted for the man.

However, lot's came from where he came from...something that liberals would excuse child molesters for, but would never forgive Jesse.

The thing about Jesse is he was the man we all want in public office. Out spoken, didn't care about polls or political correctness, didn't waiver on his fundamental beliefs. There were no secrets. He was an advocate for his beliefs. Always. And if you didn't like it, you could vote him out of office. He was not a flipper...he was a stand up guy whose beliefs were influenced by where he grew up, his cultural roots, his faith.

Maybe he was ignorant, maybe his attitudes should have changed, but in the long run he was Conservative because he felt that the government was larger then it was intended and needed to be.

RIP because he was a man that live with conviction. You don't have to agree with him to respect that. Men like him are rare anymore. Most today go with the direction of the wind.

At least there was no question on where he stood.

re: #82 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IMHO, "Stranger in a Strange Land" put him into the same category. He was brazenly whoring for the Sixties.

I must respectfully disagree. Stranger in a Strange Land was consistent with his libertarian philosophy, that's all.

The KosKids and their ilk are making much of the claim the Jesse Helms was "racist."

What evidence is there for this? It is a valid claim?

And no, I don't think opposing a public holiday for Martin Luther King makes one a racist. I also think it's an absurd mistake of a holiday.

Aside from that, in what way was Helms racist? Let's look at it objectively.

re: #80 nikis-knight

Do you mean that we ought to celebrate their birthdays on the days they fall, rather than combining them into Presidents' Day? If so, I agree with you.

If you mean that MLK Jr is the only private citizen to have his own day, you are quite correct.

re: #86 MandyManners

I'm still fresh in the youth-voter demographic.

Meaning I'm still technically a brainwashed conservopuppet if I don't toe the Obama line. =_=

re: #84 realwest
That is possible. I remember each of their birthdays was seperate and we studied each of their lives for a week each in grade school, back in the olden days Lazardo, the 60s! Hahaha.

re: #82 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I don't happen to like it much. But then, I didn't care for most of his "dirty old man" phase novels.

re: #89 yesandno

Well said!

re: #93 laZardo

I'm still fresh in the youth-voter demographic.

Meaning I'm still technically a brainwashed conservopuppet if I don't toe the Obama line. =_=

LOL!

re: #69 Perry

Let em find a patron.

Of course, and there's more around for that than at any time in human history. Let the rich liberals put their money where their mouths are.

re: #85 pingjockey

Holy crap, went to check on another posters number of comments and just for fun checked mine. 5 more to 6k. I talk too much!

Time your fifth post from now to coincide with this evening's fireworks.

These posts really, really depress me. I am such a huge fan of LGF. And I have found that most folks here are on the right side when it comes to fighting radical Islam, mocking Intelligent Design, pointing out moral equivalence and racism, making fun of ignorant and hateful Communists/Socialists, their pro-Israel stance, etc... But what I can't really understand how folks think that this angry, racist jerk was so wonderful. Sure some of his theories made some sense, but his legacy IMHO is that of a race-bating, homophobic, divisive jerk.

The Conservatives that I have seen here have been tolerant and open-minded. Helms was neither. Can't we crap on the NEA and the UN and not be a huge hateful prick?

He might have been a Patriot, but not always for the right reasons. Patriotism does not equal greatness. Ask David Duke who may have shared many of the same opinions nationally and internationally. He he might be the biggest idiot in the entire country (Jimmy Carter not included). When he dies, I can guarantee that none of you will be saying "RIP".

re: #87 laZardo

I'm relieved.

I really hope you are not equating Helms with Duke. If you are, FUCK YOU.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

No. 102 is to you.

*sigh*

bbiab

Did anyone here this one the news today.....President Bush spoke to new Americans (as of today) at Jefferson's Monticello. At least one of the new Americans (I think) was heckling him. If that's who it was, why is this person here?

re: #99 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Not gonna fly, it's only 9:40am here in the Cascades.

The comments on the AOL news article are just as vile. It's not like he slaughtered villages of people in Iraq. Jeesh.

May he rest in peace.

re: #92 Dianna

Do you mean that we ought to celebrate their birthdays on the days they fall, rather than combining them into Presidents' Day? If so, I agree with you.

If you mean that MLK Jr is the only private citizen to have his own day, you are quite correct.

What non-private citizen have their days? Washington and Lincoln have been subsumed into the generic President's day. I don't care that they are celebrated on the day, but we should be explicit that we are honoring the father of our country and the great emancipator, not just the office.

I'm not passionate about this, though, and now I wouldn't remove MLK Jr day.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky
Examples of racist and homophobic please.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

Please list the specific things that made Jesse Helms so horrendous in your eyes.

I never liked him either, but I think you may be still looking at Helms' reputation, rather than his actual opinions.

re: #84 realwest

No dispute here, but is MLK Day the reason why we lumped Lincoln and Washington into "Presidents Day"?

Not to my knowledge. Presidents' Day was how Lincoln is honored (it was Washington's Birthday before) and they didn't want to have 2 Federal holidays 10 days apart.

re: #91 zombie

In his early days, as a commentator on a TV station, he was racist. I don't know what he was later.

re: #79 cutestguy

No, Michelangelo was one of a kind. Sad in a way.

(Channelling Yogi Berra) Yes, he was one of a kind, but all those guys were the greatest. Leonardo, Rubens, Botticelli. I know next to nothing about art, but there's plenty of great work to study. Never could get into Dali.

Moonbats are just bats**t crazy, plain and simple, OH did I leave out cowards!

Wow. Those people (at DK) are a special kind of vile. The mind boggles. Kudos to those over there who protested such vicious and disgraceful behavior.

re: #90 joncelli

I must respectfully disagree. Stranger in a Strange Land was consistent with his libertarian philosophy, that's all.

Probably. I didn't read all that much of his work, considering how much he put out. Glory Road is STILL on my shelf. Read it every few years. There's a decidely libertarian thread running through it.

/maybe an anchor chain rather than a thread

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

We didn't spit on Ted Kennedy, either. We don't do that here. We won't dance on Carter's grave, even though he is crossing the line from wrong to rotten.
There is a differnce from evil men who should be wipped from the earth, and principled decent men who were occasionaly, or even frequently, or even always wrong, and should be allowed to RIP.

re: #30 Dave the.....

opps hit the wrong button. meant to hit the reply one
i am for giving gov't workers 365 days off the less they work the better we are can't do anyharm on days off.

re: #111 Dianna

In his early days, as a commentator on a TV station, he was racist. I don't know what he was later.

I'm talking as a Senator.

Hell, Sen. Byrd was a KKK Kleagle. And the Left forgives him now. A lot of Senators (especially of that generation) were racists in their pasts. But, as a Senator, what did Helms do that was racist?

Yes, on a certain level, I am suggesting that they are alike. I can't believe this. I really can't. Would William F Buckley or Ronald Reagan ever say such horrible things as this man did?

I don't care if he had a few pearls of wisdom. That doesn't make up for the fact that he was a hateful jaggoff.

re: #88 nikis-knight
Huh, "Martin Luther King Jr. Day was founded as a holiday promoted by labor unions in contract negotiations.[2] After King's death, Rep. John Conyers (D-Michigan) introduced a bill in Congress to make King's birthday a national holiday, highlighting King's activism on behalf of trade unionists.

The bill first came to a vote in the U.S. House of Representatives in 1979. However, it fell five votes short of the number needed for passage.[3] Two of the main arguments mentioned by opponents were that a paid holiday for federal employees would be too expensive, and that a holiday to honor a private citizen would be contrary to longstanding tradition (King had never held public office).[3]

Later, The King Center turned to support from the corporate community and the general public. The success of this strategy was cemented when musician Stevie Wonder released the single "Happy Birthday" to popularize the campaign in 1980 and hosted the Rally for Peace Press Conference in 1981. Six million signatures were collected for a petition to Congress to pass the law, termed by a 2006 The Nation article as "the largest petition in favor of an issue in US history."[2]

At the White House Rose Garden on November 2, 1983, Reagan signed a bill creating a federal holiday to honor King.[4][5] It was observed for the first time on January 20, 1986.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
And here I thought it was originally intended to honor his work in the Civil Rights Movement.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky
I guarentee you when the "Swimmer" goes to his reward, the comments here will in no way resemble the comments of the huffsters or the kos kidz.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

People are being polite. It's not a good thing to rant and rave and revile.

re: #120 Uncle Sticky

Yes, on a certain level, I am suggesting that they are alike. I can't believe this. I really can't. Would William F Buckley or Ronald Reagan ever say such horrible things as this man did?

I don't care if he had a few pearls of wisdom. That doesn't make up for the fact that he was a hateful jaggoff.

Please cite examples of what you're talking about, so we can judge.

re: #105 pingjockey

Not gonna fly, it's only 9:40am here in the Cascades.

WARNING: YOU HAVE ONLY FOUR LEFT!

re: #101 Dianna

Ah, still. Actual intelligence isn't valued so much these days as the "spirit" of it.

re: #97 MandyManners

It's not that funny to me though...I've seriously mulled jumping (back across) party lines if Obama wins.

re: #106 repj

Sums up my opinion of him. Even though I thought he was a product of a long-bygone era, at least he wasn't like the Ayatollahs.

re: #89 yesandno Hey, wherabouts are you in N.C.? I live in a suburb of Charlotte myself.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

I don't know which blog you've been reading, but LGF is made of different stuff than Daily Kos. If you want to trash Jesse Helms there are lots of places on the web that won't have a problem with that kind of crass behavior.

I was no fan of Jesse Helms, although like zombie I've come to agree with some of his political positions. But I'm not going to tolerate the kind of crap we see going on at lefty blogs today.

We seem to push this word racist to extremes nowadays just because an idiot that HAPPENS to be black is running to ruin America, it's ok to disagree with the bastard y'all he is evil, and so are his coward followers, get a clue!

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat
3

re: #104 Dave the.....

He's free to do so; just because he became a citizen during Bush's presidency doesn't mean he has to like Bush.

I agree that it was rude.

re: #124 zombie

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

re: #99 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Too late, it already is the fifth over here in Manila. ):

re: #131 pingjockey

3

YOUR TALLY SAYS YOU JUST DID IT!
*skyrockets*
*orchestral fanfare*

re: #110 Spiny Norman

They did at my elementary school; I think the change happened when I was in junior high.

I think the hateful liberal comments that basically spit on Helms' grave shows part of the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. That kind of hate will send good people running the other way.

re: #135 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Well holy guacamole batman!

Ameriblog has some of the most vile commenting out there.

I disagreed with Senator Helms about many things, and he was sometimes given to intemperate rhetoric, but he was also a man of principle and a staunch anti-communist at a time when the leftist appeasement forces were riding high in the saddle.

Independence day here is almost as bad as Christmas, the 8 year old is having kittens cause we haven't went and got fireworks yet!

re: #98 Spiny Norman

Of course, and there's more around for that than at any time in human history. Let the rich liberals put their money where their mouths are.

"...but but but DiMedici isn't my last name...."

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

I will be interested in the kos diaries when Senator Robert Byrd dies.
Since he was a member of the KKK and all.
Of course he is a dem so that makes it different.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

If you read the posts many of them are noting that we disagreed with Helms on many issues but do not accept his being abused in his passing.

Was Helms a racist? The answer is probably yes. Was his racism based on a personal antipathy to blacks or was it a misguided nostalgia for the world he grew up in combined with a determination to fight the forces he saw using the cause of desegregation? Lyndon Johnson was more principled than Helms in calling for desegregation. Helms was right in seeing that the movement was going to be hijacked by socialists. The tragedy was that the conservatives in America did not see how they could get out in front on this issue and become the face of true liberation for black Americans. The result is that the black community has become enslaved to the cause of an ideology that holds them back and saps the larger nation.

Apparently, for some people, racism = voting against MLK day.

re: #141 pingjockey

Independence day here is almost as bad as Christmas, the 8 year old is having kittens cause we haven't went and got fireworks yet!

Don't blow up the kittens. Wait for the fireworks, please!

In memoriam: Jesse & Bono!

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

I will not defend him regarding some, or a lot, of that crap

/however

Texas mesquite smoked 2" thick "poke chops" on the grill as we speak, America F**k Yeah! LOL

re: #119 zombie zombie, I don't know if he was a racist or not (didn't live here while he was a Senator) but according to Charles link:
"Helms was accused of race-baiting throughout his career.

"To rob the Negro of his reputation of thinking through a problem in his own fashion is about the same as trying to pretend that he doesn't have a natural instinct for rhythm and for singing and dancing," he wrote in 1956, according to the AP.

In the 1996 Senate election, Helms was challenged by Democrat Harvey Gantt, the black former mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina.

Helms ran a television commercial that showed a pair of white hands crumpling a pink slip as the announcer said: "You needed that job, and you were the best qualified, but they had to give it to a minority, because of a racial quota. Is that really fair? Harvey Gantt says it is. Gantt supports Ted Kennedy's racial quota law that makes the color of your skin more important than your qualifications."

Yet, the link goes on to say:

"In later years, Helms worked with President Clinton's secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, and U2 singer Bono to fight AIDS in Africa."

So I guess I can't really answer your question, but would point out to you that "racial" politics was not considered unusual in the South for a long time (see, e.g., Sen. Robert Byrd).

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

OK, I'm reading through the list of notorious Helms statements. There were a few pretty bad ones in there, but many of the others either pre-dated his Senate career, or were unbelievably blunt though not necessarily factually inaccurate.

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

I see a little infantile vandalism has appeared already: "Senator No" has been changed to "Senator Dickhead".

re: #120 Uncle Sticky

Per my No. 102, fuck you.

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I've been trying to stay away from this topic but he's made some pretty repulsive statements: Jesse Helms

Yep, there's no doubt that Jesse Helms said and did some ugly things. Like I said, I was not a fan of the man.

He was a patriot in his own way, though, and he deserves respect for that and for his service to the country. He was no David Duke.

re: #100 Uncle Sticky

I think there is often an over the top reaction towards being classy.
But can't you understand why?
People here are trying to maintain a stark contrast to the leftist blogosphere which is filled with some of the most vile trash on earth. Absolutely vile.
I am NO fan of Kennedy, but I wished him and his family well.
I was not a fan of Helms but I'll offer my condolences to his family and leave it at that.
When Jimmy Carter dies, I will remain silent and post nothing

re: #141 pingjockey

Independence day here is almost as bad as Christmas, the 8 year old is having kittens cause we haven't went and got fireworks yet!

Goddess will LOVE your 8 year old.

/taken literally

re: #154 Charles

Guess you and I are the only one's that respect his service to our Country! ;-)

re: #145 repj

Apparently, for some people, racism = voting against MLK day.

(Fill in the blank)-ism equals opposition to the totalitarisme du jour.

re: #155 Shug

Absolutely right.

re: #104 Dave the.....
So he can vote for Obama?
/sorta

re: #157 'Nam Grunt

Not true!

re: #149 'Nam Grunt

Sweet!

Like all clever politicians, Helms was a man of his times. As described in Diane McWhorter's "Carry Me Home: Birmingham, Alabama", [Link: www.amazon.com...]
the Communist Party did attempt to infiltrate the Civil Rights movement back in the 1940s and 1950s.

It was not irrational to link the two at that time. That the linkage played into the hands of conservatives like Helms is an inconvenient truth. Martin Luther King, Jr. was not a communist, but many of his positions on social justice were liberal, at least for those times. They now have become mainstream.

Helms showed his political skills in sidestepping the earlier unpleasantness, switched parties, and becoming a national conservative leader. Whatever else he may have been, he was no hypocrite, and on many issues, he was right.

The kind, loving liberal folk of the Suicide Girls "current events" board are throwing a party. For obvious reasons (NSFW) I won't link it, but they're no better than the KOS losers.

re: #156 pre-Boomer Marine brat
I was on the Coville Indian Reservation yesterday and got some illeagal firecrackers but resisted the urge to buy rockets because the fire danger here is so high. That said I will go back up for New Years! Can shoot rockets then with no fear of fire, snow doncha know.

re: #157 'Nam Grunt

Guess you and I are the only one's that respect his service to our Country! ;-)

Wrong

re: #150 realwest

Yes, that racial quotas ad is frequently cited as an example of his racism during his Senate career. But, although it was unbelievably blunt and tactless, it wasn't factually wrong: the whole point behind racial quotas in hiring is to give the jobs to people based on their ethnic background as opposed to their race-neutral qualifications. So, while the ad was intentionally exacerbating racial tensions, it wasn't an out-and-out racist lie.

re: #120 Uncle Sticky

Okay, your point is noted. You did not like the man.

All that others here are trying to say is, agree or disagree with his viewpoint, but he does have a family and people who love him as a person. It is not your place to judge him.

re: #151 zombie

Yeah, the wiki source for Helms' support for Pinochet is some Indymedia site.

Notice who produced that ad -- the unbelievably slimy Dick Morris.

re: #169 Killgore Trout
I trust wiki about as far as I could throw Rosie O'hosehead.

re: #165 pingjockey

I was on the Coville Indian Reservation yesterday and got some illeagal firecrackers but resisted the urge to buy rockets because the fire danger here is so high. That said I will go back up for New Years! Can shoot rockets then with no fear of fire, snow doncha know.

I hear you loud and clear!

re: #155 Shug

I don't think that people here are "trying to maintain a stark contrast to the leftist blogosphere." They just are, by nature, the opposite.

re: #170 Charles

He who sucks upon the toes of prostitutes?

re: #164 Texas Never Whispers

The kind, loving liberal folk of the Suicide Girls "current events" board are throwing a party. For obvious reasons (NSFW) I won't link it, but they're no better than the KOS losers.

At least you aren't embarrassed to admit you are a registered member of Suicide Girls!

of normal men i feel it is wrong to speak ill of the dead and what ever faults jesse had he was a normal man. You have to be pure evil before i think it is ok to say ill of the dead, lenin, mao, snicklegruber, che, saddam, pol pot are the sort that one would be commanded to speak ill of after they are dead or in the case of castro and the short shit of iran when they are alive.

re: #151 zombie

OK, I'm reading through the list of notorious Helms statements. There were a few pretty bad ones in there, but many of the others either pre-dated his Senate career, or were unbelievably blunt though not necessarily factually inaccurate.

There's a reason we have the term "politically incorrect".

re: #171 pingjockey

I trust wiki about as far as I could throw Rosie O'hosehead.

Wikipedia does have an agenda, one which would not be expected to shine a positive light on the controversies of a long-running conservative senator from the south.

re: #127 realwest

Asheville...

Hope this posts, this is the third try!

RIP, Jesse. Unlike most democrats he died at home and not in OFFICE. Which begs the question why do democrats die in OFFICE? Democrats never seem to leave under any circumstances other than the Grim Reaper calling.

Dick Morris and Bob Beckel should meld their blubber together and become a blob that we can use to sop up oil spills, that would be fitting for sure!

re: #174 Dianna

He who sucks upon the toes of prostitutes?

Please, not while I'm eating!

re: #170 Charles

Notice who produced that ad -- the unbelievably slimy Dick Morris.

I've never understood why he's so popular with the talking-head news shows, because he's always given me the creeps.

re: #181 'Nam Grunt
Glad it isn't afternoon, or there would be beer all over my keyboard!

re: #180 deportman

RIP, Jesse. Unlike most democrats he died at home and not in OFFICE. Which begs the question why do democrats die in OFFICE? Democrats never seem to leave under any circumstances other than the Grim Reaper calling.

Somehow, I think it would be a shock to the nation and the world if Ted Kennedy actually retired from the Senate. Of course I'm not holding my breath, but hey, it could happen.

RIP Jesse.

re: #174 Dianna

Hey, I only did that once and before I was married and... Oh. Huh. You were talking about Morris.

re: #188 cutestguy

ROFL

The thing to remember about Helm's is this comment from his memoir:

"that there is no sense in being in office if you don't have the courage to do what is right, even if it is the most unpopular position in the world."

Helm's was completely correct that the way affirmative action and other government programs were handled would result in failure _and_ huge deficits. Unfortunately because he, and others like him, were perceived/portrayed as racists the race card was established as a means of ending entitlement programs which enslave millions of Americans.

re: #175 zombie

At least you aren't embarrassed to admit you are a registered member of Suicide Girls!

Heh, true. My subscription runs out in December, and then I am gone!

re: #181 'Nam Grunt

Dick Morris and Bob Beckel should meld their blubber together and become a blob that we can use to sop up oil spills, that would be fitting for sure!

SpongeBob!

Gonna go mow the lawn. Keep an eye on that troll or moby or asshat.

re: #180 deportman

RIP, Jesse. Unlike most democrats he died at home and not in OFFICE. Which begs the question why do democrats die in OFFICE? Democrats never seem to leave under any circumstances other than the Grim Reaper calling.

Back in the old days (for me) the question would be why do members of the Soviet Politburo die in office?

re: #188 cutestguy

Well, he does have the papers, and they are used to sop up oil too!

re: #187 Roentgen

re: #174 Dianna

Hey, I only did that once and before I was married and... Oh. Huh. You were talking about Morris.

Are we talking about shrimpin' on a RIP thread?

Some people...

re: #182 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Please, not while I'm eating!

Finished my cheeseburger. It was good.

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

It was claimed that the boys, from a year seven class of 11 and 12-year-olds, were given detention after refusing to take part in a practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

Yesterday parents accused the school of breaching their human rights by forcing them to take part in the exercise.

re: #185 cutestguy

With the rare exception of Strom Thurmond.

Well he did start out as a Democrat.

re: #182 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Sorry.

re: #192 Roentgen

SpongeBob!

Patrick and Squidward are gonna' whoop your butt.

re: #167 zombie No argument from me; as I said, I can't say whether or not he was a racist.
All I can say is what my Mom always tells me: If you can't say something good about someone, don't say anything at all."
And frankly it pisses me off that some of the comments here (not yours) resemble the kinds of things I'd expect from the "people" at KOS or HuffPoo.
And since this IS Independence Day, I would kindly ask Charles for another thread.

Rest in peace, Senator. I voted for you, and if I could, I'd vote for you again.

Rest in Peace, Senator Helms...

Our Senate needs a hundred more just like you.

Here are some comments on the Minneapolis Star Tribune web site story.

http://ww2.startribune.com/user_comments/comments. php?d=asset_comments&asset_id=23104064&sec tion=/nation

Good riddance
America's gain is hell's loss.
posted by webloon

The devil claims one of his own.
posted by shockdaddyd

Sympathy for the Devil
The world is a better place. This man was so vile that he made george bush jr and dick cheney look like human beings. I feel sorry for Satan to be saddled with Helmes and Hitler, Cheney and Bush. I never thought I'd ever have sympathy for the Devil
posted by expression451

Proof only the good die young
Too bad he and his kind didn't die long ago.
posted by ronasch

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

things like this are why the BNP is gaining membership. there is no rational center in the u.k. anymore. time for jews to get the hell out of the u.k.

re: #194 The Other Les

Back in the old days (for me) the question would be why do members of the Soviet Politburo die in office?

Stalin.

re: #194 The Other Les

Because they didn't dare retire. Even after Molotov was forced out, and survived it, they worried about their fate if they weren't there to keep an eye on their colleagues.

re: #168 hippieforlife

"It is not your place to judge him."

Why not? I celebrate the ability to be judgmental. "Don't be judgmental" is the philosophical underpinning of multiculturalism. I can make judgments and am better off for it. Indeed, I would say that the overwhelming majority of the posters here are judgmental and routinely express their judgments in their posts. See, for example, #170 ("the unbelievably slimy Dick Morris"), which just happens to be the last post on my screen as I am typing.

re: #204 christheprofessor

Hey chris,

Me and grunt the dawg are having chops today, how are you bud?

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Wrong grounds - their civil rights were breached, not their human rights.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

I sure hope they have grounds in Britain to sue. If I was one of their parents I'd be so proud I could bust that they had enough sense to ignore this terrible stupid assignment.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

That's insane. Is the teacher having them recite the shahada?

been called a racist because i am for my own people, frankly playing the race card is racist too.

re: #206 Dave the.....

The Lefty quotes prove yet again what a cesspool of "thought" these dregs drink from. They are nothing but haters of what is right and good with our world. They want nothing but to subjugate our freedoms and negate the real progress and differences the United States of America has made in this world, over the past 232 years.

They hate this country so much, it's really tough sometimes to wrap my head around these bastards.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

This is why prayer must never be allowed in school, there's no guarantee the god being worshiped will be yours.

Its stuff like this that make me grateful to be an American.

Anyways, Happy 4th everybody!

re: #220 paradox42

Heh, good point.

re: #221 Killgore Trout

It is, isn't it?

Speaking ill of the dead is a clear indicator of your own impotence in the world.

re: #212 Blackacre

Moral judgment is a moral necessity. When someone says, don't be judgmental", he's saying in effect, "drop dead."

The Declaration of Independence

Just in case anyone has forgotten what this wonderful document says.

re: #210 Dianna

Fear of the Lubyanka is one thing we don't have here. God has blessed us.

re: #219 cutestguy

i started out as a marxist trotskyite commie but i never was a democrat. never was a liberal eather as i felt back then it was the liberals who left the room when the fight started. When i could no longer stand the anti semitism of the left i jumped over the libs. as soft leftism made no logical sence to me. I never liked the real fascist right though so mostly i am a libertarian who isn't a isolationist. so there is no party i am completly at home in the current gop will have to do.

re: #217 yochanan

been called a racist because i am for my own people, frankly playing the race card is racist too.

Playing the race card is a sign of moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

re: #224 The Other Les

Moral judgment is a moral necessity. When someone says, don't be judgmental", he's saying in effect, "drop dead."

When someone tells me that, I tell them to fornicate themselves in an impossible manner, then ask them if jury trials should be banned...after all, someone IS being judged!

re: #191 Texas Never Whispers

I've actually met a couple of the (original) Suicide Girls, in real life, back before the site became famous!

re: #225 6pat6
Thanks for that 6pat6. I was going to post it later on tonight, but it's just as well to post it out here now!
Thank you.

re: #216 jaunte

That's insane. Is the teacher having them recite the shahada?

Even though I think it is meaningless gobbety-goop, I don't say the shahada, except for parodies of it. Too many people have had their necks stretched/severed for saying those vile words in jest.

re: #213 'Nam Grunt

Hey chris,

Me and grunt the dawg are having chops today, how are you bud?

I'm well, thanks, and you? I'm debating what to have. I do have to make some brownies for a cookout tomorrow...

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

"The headteacher contacted the authority immediately complaints were received. Enquiries are being made into the circumstances as a matter of urgency and all parents will be informed accordingly.

"Educating children in the beliefs of different faiths is part of Cheshire's diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is, of course, is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching has to be conducted with commonsense and sensitivity."

Huh?

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Indeed.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

That definitely deserves a thread.

re: #178 Roentgen

Wikipedia does have an agenda, one which would not be expected to shine a positive light on the controversies of a long-running conservative senator from the south.

I was just there and under "celebrations" they annopunce that Helms' death will be celebrated with fireworks on the mall in DC....nice. Who polices wiki?

re: #233 David IV of Georgia

Here's the problem with saying it in front of witnesses:
"Reciting this statement three times in front of witnesses is all that anyone need do to become a Muslim." [Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

re: #220 paradox42

This is why prayer must never be allowed in school, there's no guarantee the god being worshiped will be yours.

Its stuff like this that make me grateful to be an American.

Anyways, Happy 4th everybody!

This is why I think public schools ought to avoid anything more than teaching bare facts about religions.
This is also why I think that it is good for there to be schools (Islam and other wacky death cults may be exceptions) with clearly defined religious orientation for people who want there children reared in some religious environment.

re: #237 zombie

There's also a rumour floating around today that a muslim "youth" has died in London police custody. Brace for seething.

re: #232 cutestguy

90% of that is factually incorrect urban legends.

i am seeing more muslim bag ladies in my part of chicago, wonder when the jews will start being attacked by the muslim scum. soon i am worried about it as the ortho still live in this part of chicago.

re: #239 jaunte

Here's the problem with saying it in front of witnesses:
"Reciting this statement three times in front of witnesses is all that anyone need do to become a Muslim." [Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

It's all I need to be excommunicated....

{NAMMIE} Wish I was there to share your dinner. :(

PB and J for MY lunch - payday's next Tuesday, dogdangitall!

CtP - That is a GREAT pic of Lightning. What a loverly dog.

re: #241 Killgore Trout

There's also a rumour floating around today that a muslim "youth" has died in London police custody. Brace for seething.

I would expect a riot. But then I tend to be a bit of a pessimist when it comes to barbarians.

re: #217 yochanan

been called a racist because i am for my own people, frankly playing the race card is racist too.

Don't worry Yoch, you'll never get such a race card
like these other people have.

re: #240 David IV of Georgia

I have no problem with private religious schools as long as they receive no public funding. I don't want my tax dollars being used to fund a religion I don't believe in, or even one I do believe in for that matter.

re: #238 paint-right

I was just there and under "celebrations" they annopunce that Helms' death will be celebrated with fireworks on the mall in DC....nice. Who polices wiki?

Everybody and nobody.

re: #212 Blackacre

I believe that we are all entitled to our opinions; but, I am not sure that opinions are the same as judgments.

My point to the poster was that I understood that he did not like Sen. Helms for whatever reasons. That is fine, but when we start acting like judge and jury due to our opinions, then we are setting ourselves above others.

re: #245 Miss Trixie

{NAMMIE} Wish I was there to share your dinner. :(

PB and J for MY lunch - payday's next Tuesday, dogdangitall!

CtP - That is a GREAT pic of Lightning. What a loverly dog.

If it makes you feel better, my checking account went down to $1.96 before I deposited my last paycheck.

re: #242 zombie

90% of that is factually incorrect urban legends.

My Bullshit Detector is going off.

RIP Senator Helms, thank you for your service.

Good afternoon lizards and Happy Birthday America!

I'm sure Kos and Huffpo are having a heyday.

re: #234 christheprofessor

I'm well, thanks, and you? I'm debating what to have. I do have to make some brownies for a cookout tomorrow...

*does a double-take*

Did you say BROWNIES?

Will you marry me?

:D

re: #245 Miss Trixie

{NAMMIE} CtP - That is a GREAT pic of Lightning. What a loverly dog.

Thanks! Just took it the other day. It's my desktop background at the moment...

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

I'm beginning to distrust the Daily Mail a bit on these kinds of stories; I don't think they always tell the whole tale. Searched news and didn't find any other articles about it; I'd like to see it from another source.

R.I.P., Jesse. May God be with your family during these difficult days.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'

Outrageous! Absolutely wrong in every way possible. How dare they tell a child who to pray to, even if it was supposedly 'pretend', or a class assignment.
And to discipline the children who refused to bow down to the moon god? Oh, HELL no.

And good on those boys for standing up and saying "NO".

1:30 AM and this semi-professional cynic has to sleep. z_z G'night!

re: #255 Miss Trixie

*does a double-take*

Did you say BROWNIES?

Will you marry me?

:D

Sure. If you wan't, I'll post the recipe (I've done it before) -- they are the best brownies you will ever eat...

re: #250 hippieforlife

Setting themselves above others is normal behavior for them.

re: #259 laZardo

Sleep well.

re: #242 zombie

90% of that is factually incorrect urban legends.

Like the urban legend that the toilet was invented by a guy named John Crapper.

re: #250 hippieforlife

"I believe that we are all entitled to our opinions; but, I am not sure that opinions are the same as judgments."

I agree that there is a difference between a mere opinion and a judgment. Opinions are cheap; judgments imply reasoning. And, yes, sometimes we do set ourselves above others through our judgments. As The Other Les said, it is a moral necessity to be able to do so.

re: #252 David IV of Georgia

If it makes you feel better, my checking account went down to $1.96 before I deposited my last paycheck.

Yikes! I feel your pain, my friend. Things are just too bloody expensive in Ottawa and with the bio-fuel crapola and rapidly rising fuel costs, consumer goods prices are sky-rocketing.

I pay over $3.00 for a lousy loaf of whole wheat bread. Up from last week by 20%

re: #248 paradox42

I have no problem with private religious schools as long as they receive no public funding. I don't want my tax dollars being used to fund a religion I don't believe in, or even one I do believe in for that matter.

I'm not against vouchers to be used at the school of one's choice, but I think that any form of direct funding would be is unconstitutional.

Senator, requiem aeternum dona eis, Domine....

re: #132 Dianna

He's free to do so; just because he became a citizen during Bush's presidency doesn't mean he has to like Bush.

I agree that it was rude.

I suppose blackening the heckler's eye would be rude also.

CtP - oh yes please!

:D

The comments on KOS and SFGATE are a stark reminder of why I choose not to associate with venomous "progressives" and Democrats. Jesse was a product of his times, believed strongly in what he did, and took his lumps. He was right about so much, including staunchly opposing Communists, especially in our own government, where they do the most harm. He could not help it if those same communists often took the form of a now "protected class" of citizens, of whom we must all fall in to line and not criticize, lest we be called names, like racists or homophobes. Tolerance of these same communists has brought us the Black Panthers, the SDS, the Weathermen, Piss Christ, the Mapplethorpe wing of the Guggenheim, the Black National Anthem, Affirmative Action, a permanent welfare state that has all but destroyed the black family, a Slave Reparations Act that appears annually like a weed in the House (but not THIS year, oddly), Black Pride month, (in which we learn that no whites ever fought in WWII, all whites are slave holders, and that whites are devils, to be reviled), and the Rev. "God Damn America" Wright.

Are we now better for having these things, in which we, the citizen taxpayer, pay for our own official vilification to the neo-segregationists?

Will they get better or worse under President Obama?

Folks, this is about to get interesting. I suggest you all pay attention, I know this batch of Lizards certainly is. Payback is what a lot of Obama's base is all about, and they've got it in their reach.

Jesse Helms was a man who grew up at a time when prejudice wasn't just acceptable - it was almost necessary for men like him - politicians who needed votes. I got the feeling that he struggled mightily with the prejudices that were taught to him and had, to a great degree, overcome them. He wasn't perfect, but who is? He loved his country and I've heard many tales of his charity to individuals. RIP.

re: #268 Miss Trixie

CtP - oh yes please!

:D

Give me a minute to type it up (or find it on a disk)..

re: #266 David IV of Georgia

Would the vouchers be good for both secular and religious private schools. In that case, I could go along with that.

As for Senator Helms, he became a strong supporter of Israel later in his career and for that I thank him. Whatever may be said of his beliefs, it should be noted that he never acted on them, unlike some other Senators who shall remain nameless. Cough *Byrd* cough.