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Al-Haramain Decision: Who Needs State Secrets?

Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 11:23:29 am PDT

Andrew Grossman on the Al-Haramain ruling in San Francisco: State Secrets? Who Needs 'Em?

According to Judge Vaughn Walker, there’s no such thing as a state secret when the government’s foreign intelligence operations so much as touch U.S. soil. That’s a huge loophole for America’s enemies.

Let’s look at the case that led Judge Walker to his bizarre ruling. The plaintiff is the al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, an outfit that even the United Nations has identified as an al-Qaeda front. This particular branch was located in Ashland, Oregon, and ran an Islamic school, Internet café, and money-transfer business. It also held itself out as a humanitarian charity helping poor Muslims in Africa and Asia.

Yet somehow, say diplomats, the alms kept winding up in terrorists’ hands. Money collected in Oregon helped finance terror attacks in Israel, Kenya, and Indonesia, among others, according to Associated Press reports. Their targets were frequently U.S. embassies and Americans.

Today, Al-Haramain is all but defunct in the United States. But one thing lives on: Its lawsuit to force federal agents to disclose the most sensitive details about how they were able to uncover its terrorist ties and shut it down.

Wednesday’s ruling is a huge step toward making that happen. Once it satisfies a few minor procedural hurdles, the court will lay out the particulars of how it can legally siphon top-secret information from the government and its private-sector helpers — mostly telecom providers like AT&T.

This was bound to happen sooner or later. Civil-liberties groups have brought over 40 suits like this against the government and the telecom firms, and many plaintiffs went shopping for sympathetic judges eager to strike a political blow against the Bush administration. Until now, these lawsuits were “just” an expensive nuisance that made the private sector wary of cooperating with government efforts to protect the American public. But now things stand to really get dangerous.

UPDATE at 7/4/08 3:10:46 pm:

This is an odd case where the reporting/spinning of the decision is contradictory: Suit accusing Bush of acting illegally tossed.

07-02) 18:56 PDT SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge in San Francisco dismissed a lawsuit Wednesday that sought to prove President Bush acted illegally in 2001 when he ordered the wiretapping of phone calls between Americans and suspected foreign terrorists without court approval.

Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker said an Islamic charity on the government’s terrorist list could not use a crucial classified document - an accidentally released memo indicating the charity and its lawyers had been wiretapped - to show that it had been harmed by the surveillance program and thus had the right to challenge it in court. But the organization’s lawyer said he wasn’t giving up.

“We will now be marshalling all the nonclassified evidence we have to make our case,” attorney Jon Eisenberg said. “We believe we can make a solid showing.”

Walker gave lawyers for the now-defunct charity, Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, 30 days to file a new lawsuit relying on publicly available evidence to show it could reasonably believe it had been wiretapped.

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301 comments

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1 VegasRick  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:26:24am

they bend over

2 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:27:19am

For background on the case:

zombietime: AL-HARAMAIN v. BUSH SURVEILLANCE HEARING.

3 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:27:55am

I've really got to update my report from last year with the outcomes of the rulings.

4 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:28:29am

The ACLU: we're here to protect ruin you.

5 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:29:56am

This is puzzling, I know Judge Walker, he is a good man and a Reagan appointee, IIRC.
I have seldom disagreed with one of his rulings.
I must learn more. I am not ready to throw rocks at the Judge yet.

6 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:29:58am

The problem is I can't even tell who "won" the case. Every article puts a different spin on the ruling.

7 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:30:09am

San Francsico, such a beautiful city, such raging loons running things.

8 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:31:20am

Is this the 9th circuit?

9 illegal upchuck  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:31:24am

They're not even pretending to care about America anymore.

10 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:32:30am

re: #3 zombie

Where/how does Judge Vaughn Walker fit into all this?

He's a conservative. He's a maverick (or at least, independent-minded.)

11 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:32:36am

re: #6 zombie

The problem is I can't even tell who "won" the case. Every article puts a different spin on the ruling.

The important ruling in the case is that Judge Walker said, no, you cannot see classified information.

12 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:32:36am
13 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:32:36am

Previous articles:

Suit accusing Bush of acting illegally tossed

Court Deals Blow to Wiretapping Case

So -- was it a defeat for the Bush administration, or a victory?

Confusion reigns.

14 pegcity  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:33:23am

so what's Obama gonna say when theres a massive terror attack on American soil, oh stupid me Blame Bush right.

Duh

15 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:33:37am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Is this the 9th circuit?

See comment #2. I sat in on the case at the Ninth Circuit.

16 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:33:39am

re: #5 rawmuse

This is puzzling, I know Judge Walker, he is a good man and a Reagan appointee, IIRC.
I have seldom disagreed with one of his rulings.
I must learn more. I am not ready to throw rocks at the Judge yet.

Could his ruling be based upon a narrow legal aspect?

17 paradox42  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:34:02am

re: #14 pegcity

Those weren't the terrorists I knew.

18 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:34:14am

re: #7 opnion

San Francsico, such a beautiful city, such raging loons running things.

I hereby command all Lizards to move here and help me take the city back.

19 Racer X  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:34:22am

This will force the authorities to run more covert activities with less people "in the know". I have no problem with that.

Big brother is my brother.

20 jorline  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:35:15am

Why does this not surprise me.

Perhaps the government can state their agenda and secrets on CSPAN for all to see...will this satisfy the ACLU and the Judge?

21 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:35:28am

re: #5 rawmuse

This is puzzling, I know Judge Walker, he is a good man and a Reagan appointee, IIRC.
I have seldom disagreed with one of his rulings.
I must learn more. I am not ready to throw rocks at the Judge yet.

It seems that the judge is saying that intel operations over seas do not constitute a reason to expose state secrets to the targets.
However, if I read him right, he is saying that the protection of state secrets is not protected if surveillance etc. happens on American soil.
We need a lawyer.

22 jaunte  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:35:32am

Ed Morissey has a good summation:

"This will likely become moot next week. The compromise FISA reform bill includes a mechanism for telecom immunity for those companies who can show that they were assured of the legality of their cooperation. Those documents aren’t classified and can be produced in open court, and if they do get produced, it will provide a positive defense against the Al-Haramain lawsuit and all others.
That vote will provide more drama than just this particular lawsuit. The big question is whether Barack Obama will vote for the bill after he reversed himself last week and supported it after having opposed it earlier. If he does, the Left will eat him alive. If he changes his mind again, he risks getting painted as a dupe of the Left and a man lacking seriousness in the war on terror — and being in the minority of his own caucus on the issue. Judge Walker can’t rescue him from that choice."


[Link: hotair.com...]

23 godfrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:35:51am

re: #18 rawmuse

Can't afford it, gov'nor! It has to hit bottom first.

24 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:36:22am

re: #13 zombie

It is a win only in the sense that a trial will not go forward. The only thing marginally better than this is if a trial had happened followed by a court victory over Al-H.

25 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:36:29am

re: #18 rawmuse

I hereby command all Lizards to move here and help me take the city back.

Cough.... Sorry bro, but your city scares the crap out of this Californian, I aint a goin anywhere near it, I might catch a mental disorder I cant never get rid of...

26 itellu3times  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:36:49am

re: #5 rawmuse

This is puzzling, I know Judge Walker, he is a good man and a Reagan appointee, IIRC.
I have seldom disagreed with one of his rulings.
I must learn more. I am not ready to throw rocks at the Judge yet.

Look forward to your research.

I'm guessing that his interest is in having the government show up, allege bad things, claiming *all* evidence is secret. That is a Bad Thing, but that's also what the FISA courts are all about, isn't it?

FTA:Congress could cut that risk down to nothing in an instant. All it needs do is pass legislation that pulls these super-sensitive suits out of federal courts.

Yeah, this is about Islamists bringing civil suits on secure matters. Is there no way Walker could kick the issue back up to the federal courts?

27 Opilio  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:37:02am

Walker, Vaughn R.

Federal Judicial Service:
Judge, U. S. District Court, Northern District of California
Nominated by George H.W. Bush on September 7, 1989, to a seat vacated by Spencer M. Williams; Confirmed by the Senate on November 21, 1989, and received commission on November 27, 1989. Served as chief judge, 2004-present.

Also,

Walker, a longtime business lawyer in San Francisco, was first nominated to the bench by President Ronald Reagan but encountered opposition over his membership in the all-male Olympic Club and his representation of the U.S. Olympic Committee in a suit that prevented a Bay Area group from calling its athletic competition the Gay Olympics.

28 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:37:11am

re: #18 rawmuse

I hereby command all Lizards to move here and help me take the city back.

How does one afford it?

29 itellu3times  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:38:10am

re: #28 opnion

How does one afford it?

Panhandling.

30 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:38:26am

re: #21 opnion

It seems that the judge is saying that intel operations over seas do not constitute a reason to expose state secrets to the targets.
However, if I read him right, he is saying that the protection of state secrets is not protected if surveillance etc. happens on American soil.
We need a lawyer.

Thats exactly what he is saying and I might add that it is and has been US law every since the creation of the CIA.

31 jorline  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:38:28am

re: #2 zombie

For background on the case:

zombietime: AL-HARAMAIN v. BUSH SURVEILLANCE HEARING.

Zombie...thank you for everything you do.

32 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:38:36am

re: #25 doriangrey

Cough.... Sorry bro, but your city scares the crap out of this Californian, I aint a goin anywhere near it, I might catch a mental disorder I cant never get rid of...

Coward! ;) Ya got me and zom and lizard by the bay, and Dianna, and, and, and...

33 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:39:11am

re: #28 opnion

How does one afford it?

Buy property right after the next quake.
That is what I did in '89.

34 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:40:11am

re: #18 rawmuse

FALL IN!

35 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:40:29am

re: #29 itellu3times

Panhandling.


A noble profession. One need not think of himself as a bum, but rather an urban vagabond

36 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:40:34am

re: #32 rawmuse

Coward! ;) Ya got me and zom and lizard by the bay, and Dianna, and, and, and...

And nobody, including zombie's own mom knows who zombie is or what she/he looks like...

37 pegcity  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:40:50am

I don't understand America, that constitution of yours amazes me even today, in Canada the governement pretty much does what it wants and people for the most part shut up and take it.

Why can't everyone in your country see that what you have is a good thing, come to canada live here for a bit and see what its like having the governement intrude in every aspect of your life.

I love America for the very reason its not Canada. Once your freedom is gone you will never get it back.

38 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:43:22am

re: #33 rawmuse

Buy property right after the next quake.
That is what I did in '89.

Great move. We should all convene to discuss our Lizard Reconquista of the City by the Bay. I suggest McCormicik & Scmicks at the wharf.
I'll have the swordfish.

39 hazzyday  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:44:14am

I think these judiciary types need to be put in their proper place as a danger to national security. The executive branch should outright ignore their ruling and procede to remove them out of their office.

40 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:44:49am

re: #38 opnion

Great move. We should all convene to discuss our Lizard Reconquista of the City by the Bay. I suggest McCormicik & Scmicks at the wharf.
I'll have the swordfish.

Why bother? the next big earthquake and San Fransicko is sliding up the coast into the state of Oregon where it belongs... ;P

41 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:45:59am

re: #39 hazzyday

I think these judiciary types need to be put in their proper place as a danger to national security. The executive branch should outright ignore their ruling and procede to remove them out of their office.

Hmmmm, a little :The Chief Justice has made his decision, now let him enforce it" eh...

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:46:00am

If only the founding fathers had been able to forsee some of this stuff... oh, hell, forget it.

43 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:46:08am

Zombie, it took me several minutes to read your linked post, but I got to hand it to you, it is the most informative bit I have read on this, and the similar cases. It offers rare insights. It appears you are a juror on this very case.

Having read it, I wish I could say that I had a pat answer for this dilemma.

It seems a Gov. employee screwed the pooch early on (incredible as that may seem for a gov. employee) in revealing the very docs that were supposedly secret.
And all else that follows is FUBAR.
Judge Walker is trying to do damage control IMHO.

44 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:46:16am

re: #40 doriangrey

Why bother? the next big earthquake and San Fransicko is sliding up the coast into the state of Oregon where it belongs... ;P


It could compete then with Portland , for the title,'Nuttiest City in the State."

45 Macker  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:47:16am

re: #37 pegcity

Whatever happened to Peace, Order, and Good Government?

46 paradox42  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:48:11am

re: #45 Macker

What is "Peace, Order, and Good Government"? Sounds kinda ominous to me.

47 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:48:53am

re: #44 opnion

It could compete then with Portland , for the title,'Nuttiest City in the State."

Yup, there both nuttier then squirrel shit...

48 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:49:39am

"many plaintiffs went shopping for sympathetic judges eager to strike a political blow against the Bush administration"

And they found one in San Francisco? I am just shocked.

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:51:08am

Hearing the Peter J. Wilhousky version of the Battle Hymn of the Republic for the fourth time today on Music Choice. A masterpiece.

50 zombie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:51:22am

re: #43 rawmuse

Zombie, it took me several minutes to read your linked post, but I got to hand it to you, it is the most informative bit I have read on this, and the similar cases. It offers rare insights. It appears you are a juror on this very case.

Thanks!

I realize it is the densest, most unreadable report I've ever done, but I also spent more time on it than any other report as well. Someone had to peel back the layers of obfuscation.

Strangely, over the past year I've gotten many fan letters about my Al-Haramain report, from people telling me it would have been Pulitzer-worthy if it had appeared in a mainstream publication. Apparently not many bloggers do much original reporting or go into such depth! (Which is probably why they're more popular!)

51 illegal upchuck  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:51:50am

re: #37 pegcity

Why can't everyone in your country see that what you have is a good thing, come to canada live here for a bit and see what its like having the governement intrude in every aspect of your life.

I love America for the very reason its not Canada. Once your freedom is gone you will never get it back.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

52 illegal upchuck  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:52:53am

re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hearing the Peter J. Wilhousky version of the Battle Hymn of the Republic for the fourth time today on Music Choice. A masterpiece.


XM 10 is doing Patriotic Music all day.

53 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:54:27am

re: #43 rawmuse

Zombie, it took me several minutes to read your linked post, but I got to hand it to you, it is the most informative bit I have read on this, and the similar cases. It offers rare insights. It appears you are a juror on this very case.

Having read it, I wish I could say that I had a pat answer for this dilemma.

It seems a Gov. employee screwed the pooch early on (incredible as that may seem for a gov. employee) in revealing the very docs that were supposedly secret.
And all else that follows is FUBAR.
Judge Walker is trying to do damage control IMHO.

Judge Walker's decision actually make a great deal of sense when you consider that America's foreign intelligence agencies are and always have been prohibited from collecting or acting on intelligence gathered in the United States. Such information has always been denied classification as classified or secret status and has always been accessible to the jurisprudence process.

54 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:56:50am

re: #53 doriangrey

Judge Walker is a good man, IMHO. But, I am biased as I know him personally. It is a good thing to be friends with lawyers and judges, but never need either of them.

55 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:58:41am

re: #54 rawmuse

Judge Walker is a good man, IMHO. But, I am biased as I know him personally. It is a good thing to be friends with lawyers and judges, but never need either of them.


The more that this is discussed, it sounds like the judge is not creating new law, but following settled precedent.

56 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:58:45am

This is madness.

The decisions of the courts of a legitimate government would make us more secure, not less.

"... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government ...

Happy 4th of July.

57 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 11:59:27am

re: #54 rawmuse

Judge Walker is a good man, IMHO. But, I am biased as I know him personally. It is a good thing to be friends with lawyers and judges, but never need either of them.

Thank god their is at least one sane judge sitting on the Ninth....

58 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:02:25pm

re: #55 opnion

The more that this is discussed, it sounds like the judge is not creating new law, but following settled precedent.

Not only following precedent, but doing a fine job of not allowing the law to be manipulated by those evil fucks in the ACLU...

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:03:24pm
"Colonel Washington has observed, that the men of his Regiment are very profane and reprobate. He takes this opportunity of informing them of his great displeasure at such practises; and assures them if they do not leave them off, they shall be severely punished. The officers are desired, if they hear any man swear, or make use of an oath or execration; to order = the offender twenty-five lashes immediately, without a Court Martial. For the second offence, they will be more severely punished" --George Washington in his General Orders on 7 July 1756 *

Makes me kind of wonder which side of the fence President Washington may have been on in this case.

60 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:04:42pm

re: #25 doriangrey

Cough.... Sorry bro, but your city scares the crap out of this Californian, I aint a goin anywhere near it, I might catch a mental disorder I cant never get rid of...

I only go into SF if I absolutely have to - just knowing that there approx 650,000 parking places and 750,000 cars at any given time is enough to deter one.

61 IndependentCalguyinTX  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:05:41pm

re: #18 rawmuse

I hereby command all Lizards to move here and help me take the city back.

I've tried to move home a couple of times and cannot find a job in the legal field that will pay me enough to afford a tiny one bedroom apartment with the huge price of $1500- 2500 every month. Plus, I cannot stand how the freaks and losers from everywhere else moved to the Bay Area and ruined it for the natives.

I'll take the funky little town in the Texas Hill Country I live in now anyday!

I do miss the sourdough and focaccia!

62 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:06:08pm

Having read Zombie's report, the SFGATE report, and now the NRO piece linked at the top, the NRO author appears to be confused. The lawsuit for the plaintiff is thrown out. How is this bad news?

I don't get it.

63 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:06:22pm

This is a random thought & more appropriate for the last thread.
It just occured to me that Barry Obama may indeed be the product of a Virgin Birth.
In his first book, he reveals that his parents met at the Selma March.
Little Barry was four years old. It was at least four years and nine months after his conception, that his parents were even introduced!
Wait a minute! Maybe I have to rethink this guy.

64 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:06:53pm

re: #58 doriangrey

Not only following precedent, but doing a fine job of not allowing the law to be manipulated by those evil fucks in the ACLU...

yup

65 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:09:14pm

re: #60 Bobibutu

I only go into SF if I absolutely have to - just knowing that there approx 650,000 parking places and 750,000 cars at any given time is enough to deter one.

When I have to go to NYC, I park at at a train station in Tarrytown, some distance outside the city, and take a train. Less headaches than driving in that mess—and I like driving.

66 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:09:30pm

re: #61 IndependentCalguyinTX

Your time for return may be ripe. The Liberals have all but ruined this city, you walk downtown and see "For Lease" signs everywhere. There has been so much new residential building that landlords actually vie for good tenants.

67 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:10:38pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Is this the 9th circuit (circus)?

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:11:16pm

History Channel is playing "The Revolution" series until 8est.

69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:11:44pm

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

History Channel is playing "The Revolution" series until 8est.

This is always a good day for History TV.

70 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:12:43pm

re: #65 David IV of Georgia

When I have to go to NYC, I park at at a train station in Tarrytown, some distance outside the city, and take a train. Less headaches than driving in that mess—and I like driving.

I did the same with a friend who worked in NYC while visiting back in the 70s. But you can actually get around in a timely manner there. BART runs into SF quickly ... but getting around the city from there - pack a lunch.

71 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:12:57pm

re: #61 IndependentCalguyinTX

Those can be had in Dallas. Dallas, however, is hardly representative of the Republic—too many foreigners from other states.

72 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:13:24pm

re: #69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is always a good day for History TV.


Wait a minute, you just answered yourself. We need a ruling, can he do that?

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:13:39pm

re: #72 opnion

Wait a minute, you just answered yourself. We need a ruling, can he do that?

Yep.

74 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:13:55pm

re: #32 rawmuse

Coward! ;) Ya got me and zom and lizard by the bay, and Dianna, and, and, and...

And me!

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:13:55pm

re: #69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is always a good day for History TV.

Sorry...

Yep.

76 beens21  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:14:12pm

who has a link to the opinion.I believe J.Walker is a trial judge,and Zombie's coverage was of the argument in the 9th Circuit,Walker was not on that panel.

77 jcobble  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:15:05pm

If Nobama gets in office, expect all these security measures to be put back in place, but the target will not be overseas enemies but their political opponents, like Charles. Fairness Doc anyone?

78 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:15:29pm

re: #60 Bobibutu

I only go into SF if I absolutely have to - just knowing that there approx 650,000 parking places and 750,000 cars at any given time is enough to deter one.

ROTFLMAO.............Yup, thats pretty bad. It is however the reality that some 70 to 80 percent of the cities inhabitants are utterly and completely bat shit insane that keeps me away. This fact also I might add produces quite the chuckle from me whenever contemplating the entirely unintended but totally outrageous irony of those Clint Eastwood "Dirty Harry" movies having been set in San Fransicko....

79 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:16:17pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yep.

oh, well then thats OK. I just don't want you know anarchy.
Hey, I don't think that I'm schizophrenic & neither do I.

80 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:17:37pm

Judge Walker is a Geo. H.W. Bush appointee. I correct myself.

81 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:17:53pm

Later Lizards. Everbody enjoy the 4th!

82 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:18:22pm

re: #62 rawmuse

Having read Zombie's report, the SFGATE report, and now the NRO piece linked at the top, the NRO author appears to be confused. The lawsuit for the plaintiff is thrown out. How is this bad news?

I don't get it.

It's bad news because the commie bastards didnt get to pervert the US Justice system yet again...

83 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:18:49pm

re: #76 beens21

who has a link to the opinion.I believe J.Walker is a trial judge,and Zombie's coverage was of the argument in the 9th Circuit,Walker was not on that panel.

I can't find a link to the opinion, but I do find this link to mybarackobama.com

84 Opilio  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:19:23pm

re: #76 beens21

who has a link to the opinion.I believe J.Walker is a trial judge,and Zombie's coverage was of the argument in the 9th Circuit,Walker was not on that panel.

He is the Chief Judge for the U.S. District Court for Northern California. He is not a member of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

85 paradox42  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:19:36pm

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks for the info.

Later everyone. Happy Birthday America, Happy 4th of July everyone.

86 Clemente  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:21:19pm

Classy folks over at BHO's moderated place -


Ah, SOOOOO SAD..............NOT! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Ugh.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned...

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:22:02pm

Proof that I am a moron...

Friedrich Wilhelm Ludolf Gerhard Augustin von Steuben

Never heard of this guy before today. He is one of the reasons we made it out of Valley Forge ready to kick some ass.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

88 Opilio  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:22:34pm

re: #76 beens21

who has a link to the opinion.I believe J.Walker is a trial judge,and Zombie's coverage was of the argument in the 9th Circuit,Walker was not on that panel.

How about this.

89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:22:51pm

Sorry for being so off topic.

90 Shug  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:24:14pm
It also held itself out as a humanitarian charity helping poor Muslims in Africa and Asia purchase weapons and bombs at little or no cost

thanks to this Vermin in a black robe, americans will die at the hands of terrorists. maybe not tomorrow, but some day.

The stench from the bench is making me clench

91 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:24:40pm

re: #54 rawmuse

Judge Walker is a good man, IMHO. But, I am biased as I know him personally. It is a good thing to be friends with lawyers and judges, but never need either of them.

I feel blessed that I can count several important local law enforcement officials as friends, as well.

92 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:24:48pm

Judicial appointments alone are sufficient reason to vote for McCain. Right-wing ideologues who peevishly decide to sit this one out will have only themselves to blame when Obama-appointed institutionalize the whole far-left agenda.

93 Dotcoman  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:25:17pm

re: #6 zombie

That's the Liberal Socialist MSM for you.

94 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:26:05pm

re: #88 Opilio

How about this.

Crikey, give me a week... I may understand it.

95 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:27:23pm

re: #38 opnion

Great move. We should all convene to discuss our Lizard Reconquista of the City by the Bay. I suggest McCormicik & Scmicks at the wharf.
I'll have the swordfish.

Can we stay at the SF Ritz-Carlton on Nob Hill. Please? It's one of my favorites.

96 Opilio  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:28:23pm

re: #88 Opilio

Text of Walker's opinion

The money quote from page 56 of the ruling:

For the reasons stated herein, plaintiffs’ claim under FISA is DISMISSED with leave to amend. Plaintiffs shall have thirty (30) days to amend their complaint in accordance with this order...

IT IS SO ORDERED

I wish I could end my emails at work with that last line.

97 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:29:09pm

LIBERALS sort of remind me of the story were two guys are in a row boat and one of them starts to drill a hole in his end of the boat.

I almost wish there were two america's a american one and a liberal one to see who would win this war. liberals don't even think we are in a war.

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:29:25pm

re: #96 Opilio

I end mine with "So as it is written, so it shall be done". Just wish could throw in the accent.

99 mattm  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:30:08pm

American is not allowed to jeep secrets, every other Islamic nation is.

/moonbat off

100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:30:52pm

re: #99 mattm

I jeep secrets all the time.

101 yma o hyd  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:31:40pm

re: #87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Proof that I am a moron...

Friedrich Wilhelm Ludolf Gerhard Augustin von Steuben

Never heard of this guy before today. He is one of the reasons we made it out of Valley Forge ready to kick some ass.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Are ye saying that a Prussian general saved your asses?
Same as a (different) Prussian general saved Wellington's at Waterloo?

Blimey ...

102 GGMac  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:33:02pm

OT...

Happy 232nd Birthday United States of America, Happy Birthday to US!

Have a great Independence Day all you Lizards, as you play in the (Little Green) Football Field!

Out the door now to celebrate with the family - see ya' later...

103 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:33:03pm

re: #95 Roentgen

Can we stay at the SF Ritz-Carlton on Nob Hill. Please? It's one of my favorites.

For those willing to commute we can use my place in Walnut Creek as a crash pad and BART in.

104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:33:21pm

re: #101 yma o hyd

Are ye saying that a Prussian general saved your asses?
Same as a (different) Prussian general saved Wellington's at Waterloo?

Blimey ...

It appears he was a Prussian Queen who saved our asses (his credentials were fake). And thank God for him!

105 rlevitin  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:33:23pm

re: #9 illegal upchuck

They're not even pretending to careCAIR about America anymore.

fixed

/

106 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:33:53pm

"...with leave to amend"
I think that means that they have 30 days to re jigger their argument.
But I am no attorney.

107 DistantThunder  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:34:08pm

Liberals do not have the US's security interests at heart. Amen.

It's the difference between the love of a mother, and a wicked conniving step-mother.

108 Opilio  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:35:43pm

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I end mine with "So as it is written, so it shall be done". Just wish could throw in the accent.

Ah, Yuliy Borisovich.
And much less geeky than "Make it so."

109 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:36:03pm

re: #106 rawmuse

"...with leave to amend"
I think that means that they have 30 days to re jigger their argument.
But I am no attorney.

Heh heh heh thats exactly what it means, with one exception, should they fail to meet the 30 day deadline for any reason, the case is DEAD......

110 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:37:48pm

re: #109 doriangrey

Heh heh heh thats exactly what it means, with one exception, should they fail to meet the 30 day deadline for any reason, the case is DEAD......

Which is why I am still trying to figure out how Judge Walker comes out of this looking bad to the NRO author. If I need a clue bat, let me have it.

111 yma o hyd  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:42:03pm

re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks like he served under Frederick the Great of Prussia - the best soldier of his time. Napoleon said after one of his victories that if Frederick the Great had had the command of the oppostion, he, napoleon, would have been beaten ..

Oh - and he wrote your training manual - thats marvellous: the Republican army of the free americans were drilled according to Prussian standards.
Now we know why you lot went on to win everything, everywhere!

112 jenv  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:44:15pm

re: #38 opnion

Great move. We should all convene to discuss our Lizard Reconquista of the City by the Bay. I suggest McCormicik & Scmicks at the wharf.


I vote for Max's on Van Ness.

113 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:46:38pm

re: #110 rawmuse

Which is why I am still trying to figure out how Judge Walker comes out of this looking bad to the NRO author. If I need a clue bat, let me have it.

I'm guessing that it just hasn't occurred to you yet that the NRO's Andrew M. Grossman might not be a conservative.

114 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:50:49pm

re: #113 doriangrey

I'm guessing that it just hasn't occurred to you yet that the NRO's Andrew M. Grossman might not be a conservative.

Well,yes. You must admit that assuming that a writer for NRO is a conservative would be standard. He threw most of his darts at Congress, but did have some early barbs for the Judge.

115 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:50:57pm

re: #111 yma o hyd

Looks like he served under Frederick the Great of Prussia - the best soldier of his time. Napoleon said after one of his victories that if Frederick the Great had had the command of the oppostion, he, napoleon, would have been beaten ..

Oh - and he wrote your training manual - thats marvellous: the Republican army of the free americans were drilled according to Prussian standards.
Now we know why you lot went on to win everything, everywhere!

Actually the evidence seems to suggest that we went on to win pretty much everything in spite of being drilled according to Prussian standards. The simple fact is that our successes can pretty much be attributed to to a) God's direct intervention and b) our insistence on changing the rules of warfare to favor us in all of our conflicts.

116 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:55:31pm

re: #103 Bobibutu

For those willing to commute we can use my place in Walnut Creek as a crash pad and BART in.

Does the Walnut Creek station have a lending library?

117 yma o hyd  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:57:38pm

re: #115 doriangrey

Actually the evidence seems to suggest that we went on to win pretty much everything in spite of being drilled according to Prussian standards. The simple fact is that our successes can pretty much be attributed to to a) God's direct intervention and b) our insistence on changing the rules of warfare to favor us in all of our conflicts.

Good thing you didn't have to fight against Wellington, then :-)

No, sorry, don't mean to be flippant on this day of all days.
One thing people in Europe (and the rest of the world) don't realise is how truly bloody your Civial war was, how very much it was a modern war, in the sense that the wars and skirmishes taking place at the same time and later in Europe were odl-fashioned, in comparison.

The first 'modern' war wasn't WWI - it was your Civil War.
And let no one forget why it was fought!

118 rightwinger3  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:58:10pm

re: #115 doriangrey

Actually the evidence seems to suggest that we went on to win pretty much everything in spite of being drilled according to Prussian standards. The simple fact is that our successes can pretty much be attributed to to a) God's direct intervention and b) our insistence on changing the rules of warfare to favor us in all of our conflicts.

...and c) the invention of the MK-19!

119 shanec99  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:03:06pm

I don't know enough about this case, I want to sit and watch how this all plays out before I say anything. I must say this though, I have a really uncomfortable gut feeling about the implications of this decision.

120 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:05:38pm

This will end up in front of the Supreme Court.

121 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:05:45pm

re: #114 rawmuse

Well,yes. You must admit that assuming that a writer for NRO is a conservative would be standard. He threw most of his darts at Congress, but did have some early barbs for the Judge.

A quick look at his specialties in law suggests that while Mr. Grossman is well educated regarding the law he seems to lean leftward. Not leftward as in liberal, but more like capitol L Libertarian.

122 JohnnyReb  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:07:02pm

re: #121 doriangrey

A quick look at his specialties in law suggests that while Mr. Grossman is well educated regarding the law he seems to lean leftward. Not leftward as in liberal, but more like capitol L Libertarian.

He really needs to lose the bow tie.

123 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:08:44pm

re: #121 doriangrey

OK, now I get it. I even have had lunch with this guy over at Heritage.

124 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:09:47pm

re: #117 yma o hyd

the weapons in the civil war were becoming modern sadly offen the battle plans were not. marching in streight lines into rifled cannon and repeating rifles were out of the old style of war.

125 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:11:12pm

re: #117 yma o hyd

Good thing you didn't have to fight against Wellington, then :-)

No, sorry, don't mean to be flippant on this day of all days.
One thing people in Europe (and the rest of the world) don't realise is how truly bloody your Civial war was, how very much it was a modern war, in the sense that the wars and skirmishes taking place at the same time and later in Europe were odl-fashioned, in comparison.

The first 'modern' war wasn't WWI - it was your Civil War.
And let no one forget why it was fought!

Yup, would have been a bloody shame for us to have kicked his ass... ;P
There were so many radical innovations to come out of the civil war, from cartridge ammo, rifled artillery, armored vessels and even submarines. There were also many tactical innovations.

126 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:11:56pm

The State has a compelling interest (in the legal sense) to have these things remain secret rather than client having a rational interest (in the legal sense) to have them exposed. Expect this to be appealed and thrown into the dung heap where it so justly belongs.

127 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:12:52pm

repeating rifles, a kind of machine gun, rifled cannon and mortars, and last but not least iron clad steam driven navy. made the form of war obsolete. To bad for the foot solders who were still lead in the old style of war.

128 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:13:08pm

Well i woke up this morning still living in the land of the free..
Happy 4th fellow lizards!
I am so proud of our sons and daughters that serve us in the united states military.
Because of thier courage, bravery and total dedication
we get to enjoy and celibrate this day every year.
/ I salute you proud americans

129 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:13:10pm

re: #125 doriangrey
Moving vast quantities of personnel and material by rail. Logistics win wars. "He who gets there fust with the most". Some civil war general. don't remember whom.

130 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:14:44pm

re: #125 doriangrey

Dude, is that your MP3?

131 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:14:46pm

What time is the Sox vs. Infidels game?

132 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:14:50pm

re: #129 pingjockey

Nathan Bedford Forrest
"Get there fustest with the mostest"

133 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:15:03pm
134 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:15:38pm

re: #132 rawmuse
Thank you.

135 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:17:51pm

re: #123 rawmuse

OK, now I get it. I even have had lunch with this guy over at Heritage.

I'm sure he is a fascinating individual but man is he hard to pin down on just where he is coming from in his political ideology. He has an interesting article here regarding FISA which pretty much displays how difficult it is to see where Mr. Grossman is coming from. Like I said, he seems to be a capitol (L) Libertarian. A bit authoritarian for my tastes, but much preferable to socialist/communist/liberals any day.

136 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:19:06pm

re: #129 pingjockey

except for crapy leader'shit' in the army of the pathomic the civil war should not have lasted half as long. the Union was stronger in everything but leadership. Modern rail lines, modern comunication, a manufactering sector that was light years ahead of the south. A larger population, and no need to worry about a capitive population at home.

eventually real leadership whould show up in U.S. GRANT. AND FARAGOT.

137 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:19:20pm

re: #135 doriangrey
What are you doing today? Just got the back yard squared away for visitors, and have been smoking out the neighbors with smoke bombs for the 8 yr old!

138 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:19:43pm

re: #130 Roentgen

Dude, is that your MP3?

ROTFLMAO..................That depends on whether you like it or not.... If you do, then yes, if not, then its just some random bums mp3s..... ;P

139 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:19:56pm

re: #131 pingjockey

PALE OR COMMIE HOSE?

140 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:20:35pm

re: #139 yochanan
Red! I hate the damn Yankees. I don't care who they're playing.

141 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:20:57pm

re: #138 doriangrey

Then I, too, am ROTFLMAO.

142 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:21:10pm

re: #137 pingjockey

What are you doing today? Just got the back yard squared away for visitors, and have been smoking out the neighbors with smoke bombs for the 8 yr old!

Not doing a single damned thing..........And loving it..........

143 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:22:57pm

re: #142 doriangrey
That'll work. Had to resist a terrible urge yesterday. The Indians can sell illegal fireworks on the reservation. I didn't buy any rockets. Got the boys some firecrackers and that was it. To damn dry for aerial fireworks.

144 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:23:35pm

re: #142 doriangrey

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

145 Shug  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:25:02pm

re: #144 rawmuse

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

polish the pipes

146 JohnnyReb  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:25:09pm

re: #144 rawmuse

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

You can do that? My wife says they have to cook and clean for me to hire them.

147 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:26:08pm

re: #144 rawmuse

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

Oh my god................that so sounds like something my brother would say, not that he would ever do it, the poor spa actually loves his wife...

148 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:26:41pm

Some times i wonder if my wife would like the idea of hookers so she could sleep nites.

just kidding wifie

149 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:27:23pm

re: #144 rawmuse

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

The Kid wanted to vacuum his room today but I told him it was an adult's task. Hoo, boy, did he take extreme umbrage at that. He did his room, his bathroom, the hall and part of my bedroom.

150 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:27:39pm

re: #141 Roentgen

Then I, too, am ROTFLMAO.

Apparently I am one of those musicians that you either love or hate, did you read any of the reviews?

151 Perry  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:28:23pm

re: #137 pingjockey

What are you doing today? Just got the back yard squared away for visitors, and have been smoking out the neighbors with smoke bombs for the 8 yr old!

Mine just shot all theirs out the trebuchet (Dad did the lighting).

152 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:28:46pm

re: #149 MandyManners

The Kid wanted to vacuum his room today but I told him it was an adult's task. Hoo, boy, did he take extreme umbrage at that. He did his room, his bathroom, the hall and part of my bedroom.

And you sat back chuckling to yourself the whole time muttering under your breath.... SUCKER...............

153 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:29:02pm

re: #149 MandyManners

The Kid wanted to vacuum his room today but I told him it was an adult's task. Hoo, boy, did he take extreme umbrage at that. He did his room, his bathroom, the hall and part of my bedroom.

ROFLMAO i should try that with wifie

154 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:30:49pm

i wonder if i told my wifie that women weren't up to the task mandy?

she would eather do it or put the vac in some un-natural place

155 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:31:36pm

re: #151 Perry
Cool. I have a book on backyard ballistics and we have been trying to engineer some of the smaller stuff up to a more formidable size! My brother is looking at car leaf springs and that kind of mad stuff!

156 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:31:53pm

re: #152 doriangrey

And you sat back chuckling to yourself the whole time muttering under your breath.... SUCKER...............

Oh, no. I was shocked. Shocked, I tellz ya'.

157 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:32:17pm

re: #154 yochanan

i wonder if i told my wifie that women weren't up to the task mandy?

she would eather do it or put the vac in some un-natural place

Most likely in some un-natural place..... ROTFLMAO.............Yup....some un-natural place for certain.....

158 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:32:30pm

re: #154 yochanan

i wonder if i told my wifie that women weren't up to the task mandy?

she would eather do it or put the vac in some un-natural place

A mechanical enema?

159 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:33:04pm

Hey, it's san francisco in a recession. Hookers are cheaper than maids.

160 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:33:10pm

re: #156 MandyManners
I know the feeling. The 14 year old went batshit the other day and totally cleaned his room, without being told. You could've knocked me down with a feather!

161 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:33:44pm

re: #159 rawmuse
Mwahahahaha!

162 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:34:09pm

re: #159 rawmuse

Hey, it's san francisco in a recession. Hookers are cheaper than maids.

And, you know this...how?

163 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:34:16pm

right something about a hoover sucking off chrome from some un-natural place.

164 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:34:54pm

re: #160 pingjockey

I know the feeling. The 14 year old went batshit the other day and totally cleaned his room, without being told. You could've knocked me down with a feather!

Better find out what he did, that kind of unnatural act is always a symptom of something....................

165 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:35:21pm

re: #116 debutaunt

Does the Walnut Creek station have a lending library?

I don't know - haven't been to it.

166 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:35:56pm

re: #164 doriangrey
He already did it. Took grampas pickup for a spin. So he is looking at a very long boring summer.

167 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:36:17pm

when i had 3 male human teenagers i could have found new forms of evolutionary life in there bedroom. but given that they were male human teenagers it would not have been intelligent design.

168 Perry  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:36:45pm

re: #149 MandyManners

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com...]

169 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:36:55pm

re: #160 pingjockey

I know the feeling. The 14 year old went batshit the other day and totally cleaned his room, without being told. You could've knocked me down with a feather!

I've just about given up on his making up his bed. It's a queen-sized platform bed that's a bitch for me to make up some days.

170 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:37:52pm

re: #167 yochanan

when i had 3 male human teenagers i could have found new forms of evolutionary life in there bedroom. but given that they were male human teenagers it would not have been intelligent design.

Don't give boys that. It doesn't take a uterus to clean.

171 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:38:13pm

re: #145 Shug
Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

polish the pipes

And polish the nob.

172 brakes  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:38:14pm

re: #2 zombie

For background on the case:

zombietime: AL-HARAMAIN v. BUSH SURVEILLANCE HEARING.

Thanks, Zombie. I have to go to a family picnic now, but I'm looking forward to reading it all.
Happy Fourth to all lizards!

173 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:38:16pm

re: #162 MandyManners

And, you know this...how?

Ms. MandyManners, God love you, I hope you know I jest :)
Now, put the damn gun down....

174 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:38:45pm

re: #158 MandyManners

A mechanical enema?

"There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal, particularly in women. Chief among these is the Mercedes-Benz 500SL."
--Lynn Lavner

175 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:38:47pm

you would not want to walk in there bed room with anything less than steel toed combat boots i once went in there in gym shoes and stepped on something that caused blood to flow.

176 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:39:04pm

re: #168 Perry

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com...]

LOL! My hair looks better than that.

I can't wait until he's tall enough to load the washer and dryer.

177 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:39:04pm

re: #165 Bobibutu

I don't know - haven't been to it.

BART is the first transit system in the nation with an automated book lending machine. What a cool idea!

178 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:39:32pm

re: #173 rawmuse

Ms. MandyManners, God love you, I hope you know I jest :)
Now, put the damn gun down....

*snicker*

179 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:39:40pm

re: #174 Bobibutu
My harley has that affect on my wife. Heh.

180 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:39:58pm

re: #150 doriangrey

Apparently I am one of those musicians that you either love or hate, did you read any of the reviews?

Yes. Something about "tripe."

181 Perry  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:40:39pm

re: #176 MandyManners

stepstool. If he's ready.

182 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:41:03pm

re: #176 MandyManners

LOL! My hair looks better than that.

I can't wait until he's tall enough to load the washer and dryer.

WERE DID YOU GET MY PIC MANDY? I thought I burned all of them.

183 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:41:07pm

Speaking of laundry, the dryer is calling to me.

184 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:41:10pm

re: #180 Roentgen
Being as DG is in San Diego are you sure they didn't use menudo instead?!

185 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:41:52pm

re: #179 pingjockey

who gets the b'''h seat?

186 Shug  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:42:41pm

re: #171 Roentgen

Isn't it great? Wife is coming home tomorrow. I suppose I should hire some hookers to come over and clean the house...

polish the pipes

And polish the nob.


wax on
wax off
daniel san

187 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:42:54pm

re: #185 yochanan
Now who do you think? Actually I let her ride it by herself and she came home hotter than a 3 dollar pistol!

188 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:43:08pm

re: #177 debutaunt

The things we learn on LGF. I don't use BART that often. Now I'll have to look for it.

Gotta run - water aerobics in 15 mins and I have been elected to sub for our instructor. This should be chaos.

Happy 4th all.

189 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:44:16pm

re: #184 pingjockey

Being as DG is in San Diego are you sure they didn't use menudo instead?!

You mean this?

190 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:44:20pm

BIG OIL IS RIPPING OFF MY NEIGHBOR! He works on the North Slope and has to fly out today!

191 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:44:25pm

re: #187 pingjockey

expansive vibrator
hehe

192 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:44:45pm

re: #184 pingjockey

Being as DG is in San Diego are you sure they didn't use menudo instead?!

ROTFLMAO.....After last night I could have used a good bowl of menudo this morning....

193 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:45:17pm

re: #189 Roentgen
I get no pic!

194 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:45:50pm

re: #191 yochanan
Oh yes. Now she wants one too.

195 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:46:14pm

image hosted by tripod and no image.

196 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:46:30pm

re: #192 doriangrey
That maybe some nasty stuff but it does wonders for a hung over stomach.

197 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:46:36pm

re: #194 pingjockey

Oh yes. Now she wants one too.

Dont act like you weren't warned that that would happen.......... ;P

198 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:46:43pm

re: #194 pingjockey

Oh yes. Now she wants one too.


i can see why. must hit the spot so to speak

199 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:47:28pm

re: #193 pingjockey

Try this Menudo

200 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:47:33pm

re: #197 doriangrey
At least she wants a Sportster, those are about half of what my Dyna cost. Or less.

201 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:48:15pm

re: #199 Roentgen
Ahahahahaha!

202 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:48:15pm

re: #199 Roentgen

Try this Menudo

Gwaaaaaaaaa I was afraid you were going to go there...................

203 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:48:54pm

re: #202 doriangrey
I knew that was gonna happen, went and looked anyway.

204 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:49:12pm

re: #199 Roentgen

Try this Menudo

my kid would have said that was GAY

205 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:49:12pm

re: #202 doriangrey

Sorry. I'll start drinking now, so the quality of the links should improve.

206 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:50:13pm

re: #200 pingjockey

Some girls like horseback riding for the same reason.

207 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:50:19pm

re: #204 yochanan
I have had numerous discussions with my 3 about how that is not a good term to use for things they don't like. Hasn't worked, much.

208 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:50:42pm

In lieu of an open thread, I'll lighten things up.

Q) What did the Grateful Dead fan say when he ran out of drugs?

A) "Geez...this band sucks!"

209 beens21  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:50:46pm

I've read the opinion and I think the judge's hands were tied based on FISA statute.I disagree with Grossman's take on the case.The govt. lawyers turned over classified info,if they had not I don't think the case would have been filed.There is a reason there is no case law under section 1810 in the last 33 years, it is too hard to make a case.

210 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:50:49pm

re: #206 yochanan
That is what I've heard. :)

211 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:51:19pm

re: #203 pingjockey

I knew that was gonna happen, went and looked anyway.

I'm guessing that that means I am one of those artists that Roentgen hates.... Cause it is just plain hateful to even mention that group anywhere remotely approaching close proximity to a conversation in which I am the subject...

212 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:53:14pm

Y'all have a fine day. Remember to hoist a toast and give a thought to those who have given all and those in uniform now. Happy Independence Day everyone. To all our non U.S. Lizards, have a very fine weekend.

213 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:54:33pm

re: #212 pingjockey

i will have them in mind when i make Kidush tonite for all who have died so we can have freedom.

214 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:57:33pm

re: #211 doriangrey

DR, I've listened to your music, and, while I must admit it is not for me...
You would go over BIG in San Francisco.

215 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 1:59:42pm

re: #208 rawmuse

In lieu of an open thread, I'll lighten things up.

Q) What did the Grateful Dead fan say when he ran out of drugs?

A) "Geez...this band sucks!"

Q: What did the lyricist say when asked how he liked Orff's Carmina Burana?

A) I like it better the first time.

216 Alouette  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:00:32pm

re: #149 MandyManners

The Kid wanted to vacuum his room today but I told him it was an adult's task. Hoo, boy, did he take extreme umbrage at that. He did his room, his bathroom, the hall and part of my bedroom.

Uh oh, what did he spill?

217 yochanan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:03:23pm

re: #215 Roentgen

Q: What did the lyricist say when asked how he liked Orff's Carmina Burana?

A) I like it better the first time.


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

218 the_flying_pig  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:03:38pm

I look forward to the day when families can legally sue these civil liberty groups and ACLU for complicating the government's abilities to stop terrorist attacks upon American lives and hold them 100% accountable for such past legal actions defending terrorist-financed Islamic fronts in America. Sue their pants off.

219 Roentgen  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:12:37pm

re: #217 yochanan

The melody. The theme. It comes in two's--repeats itself.

220 gettinby  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:15:30pm

Aw, darn.

RIP Bozo the Clown

/childhood memories.

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:15:35pm

re: #219 Roentgen

The melody. The theme. It comes in two's--repeats itself.

Oh. It was a joke!

222 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:19:56pm
223 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:22:10pm

re: #86 Clemente

It's gone now, or was it a bad url?

224 gettinby  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:25:09pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Fabulous, just fabulous.

/bursting with pride for our country.

225 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:26:03pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Awesome!

226 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:37:31pm

re: #216 Alouette

Uh oh, what did he spill?

Nothing.

227 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:41:31pm

He also sliced the cucumbers, celery, bell pepper and tomatoes for the salad. I have no idea what's come over him.

228 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:42:34pm

re: #226 MandyManners

My sons always liked to vacuum. Five year old still does. Daughter, not so much. LOL She likes to spray Endust and wipe the furniture. ;)

229 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:48:01pm

Back for a few minutes...did I miss anything?

230 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:51:22pm

re: #214 rawmuse

DR, I've listened to your music, and, while I must admit it is not for me...
You would go over BIG in San Francisco.

That though scares the living crap out of me.... No seriously, I cant imagine that being so since I am such conservative and my personal experience with liberals is that they completely and totally lack any ability to separate the art from the artist. In other words because of my conservative principals there are close to zero liberals who would ever listen to let alone like my music.

231 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:52:27pm

I see the kossacks are still at it...

Hell Throws Big Welcome Party for Jesse Helms

Noted racist, sexist, homophobe, poor-hating, Confederate-sympathizing, anti-communist nut job senator from North Carolina, Jesse Helms, has died.

I know we are supposed to be respectful when someone dies and not speak ill of them, but I can't say I'm too busted up over this loss. In fact, I hope he is in the segregated section of Hell... you know, the section that is particularly fiery. The section set aside for particularly obnoxious and unyielding defenders of the unjust status quo. I hope he is having to do grueling, back-breaking manual labor for a whole slew of black angels. I hope he is having to wash the naked bodies of elderly black saints, scrub the floors and make food for an African American celestial choir. I hope he is under constant orders by black males angels with white angel wives. And, to cap it off, I hope he must spend all his downtime being massaged with oil by hundreds of fabulously gay men while listening to militant feminist diatribes on his ipod!

And they expect Obama to cave in to these people?

232 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:55:51pm

re: #231 NJDhockeyfan

I see the kossacks are still at it...

Hell Throws Big Welcome Party for Jesse Helms

And they expect Obama to cave in to these people?

The insane never grasp the simple fact that their mental processes and idea's are profoundly distorted................

233 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:56:21pm

Hullo, lizards. Are you enjoying your 4th of July celebrations?

Me, I'm enjoying a slightly tart sangria and looking forward to a nice (although small) MR steak with homemade potato salad.

Hmmmm . . . maybe I'll make that a steak sammy with sauteed zoomers . . .

:D

234 rorschach[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:57:00pm
235 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:57:26pm

re: #128 HoosierHoops

Well i woke up this morning still living in the land of the free..
Happy 4th fellow lizards!
I am so proud of our sons and daughters that serve us in the united states military.
Because of thier courage, bravery and total dedication
we get to enjoy and celibrate this day every year.
/ I salute you proud americans


Well said

236 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:57:54pm

re: #233 Miss Trixie

Hullo, lizards. Are you enjoying your 4th of July celebrations?

Me, I'm enjoying a slightly tart sangria and looking forward to a nice (although small) MR steak with homemade potato salad.

Hmmmm . . . maybe I'll make that a steak sammy with sauteed zoomers . . .

:D

Hello Miss Trixie, that sounds great. I am currently enjoying a rather large glass of "gasp" milk...........

237 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 2:59:12pm

re: #234 rorschach

Put that s.o.b.'s name on the list. When the excrement hits the fan, he should pay dearly.

In this case and many like it, seditionists are acting without fear of repercussion. The consequence of their treason puts millions in danger.

Ummmm, do you have even the most remote idea of what you are talking about, or are you just trolling...........

238 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:01:16pm

re: #231 NJDhockeyfan


Gracious. Poor thing doesn't have the sense God gave a goose.

/not to mention that the idiot sounds as like he doesn't know whether he means heaven or hell

239 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:01:39pm

re: #236 doriangrey

Hello Miss Trixie, that sounds great. I am currently enjoying a rather large glass of "gasp" milk...........

Evening, luv. I love milk and enjoy a large glass every day with brekkie.

I found an uncashed cheque in my wallet from a vendor I had cancelled - there was a small pre-paid amount on the account - so I splurged for a steak and sangria with the money.

Ye-hawwwwwwwww! It's like finding a $20 bill in your winter coat before you take it to the cleaners in the spring.

:D

I love small blessings.

240 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:02:03pm

re: #233 Miss Trixie

Sounds good, but what's a zoomer? :)

241 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:03:03pm

re: #238 gop_patriot

Gracious. Poor thing doesn't have the sense God gave a goose.

/not to mention that the idiot sounds as like he doesn't know whether he means heaven or hell

Well he is after all a koskiddie, which of course means narcissistic and mentally unbalanced...

242 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:04:11pm

re: #239 Miss Trixie

Evening, luv. I love milk and enjoy a large glass every day with brekkie.

I found an uncashed cheque in my wallet from a vendor I had cancelled - there was a small pre-paid amount on the account - so I splurged for a steak and sangria with the money.

Ye-hawwwwwwwww! It's like finding a $20 bill in your winter coat before you take it to the cleaners in the spring.

:D

I love small blessings.

Heh heh heh nothing like finding money you didnt know you had........

243 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:04:15pm

re: #240 gop_patriot

Sounds good, but what's a zoomer? :)

Mushrooms - especially sauteed in butter and garlic. The only way I'll eat them.

244 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:05:19pm

Waaaaay OT:

Okay, I just noticed something interesting. If you go to Google Maps today, and click on the "Street View" button, the little "man" that you drag around to a location is dressed as Uncle Sam.

Happy Independence Day, everyone.

245 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:05:54pm

re: #243 Miss Trixie

Mushrooms - especially sauteed in butter and garlic. The only way I'll eat them.

Man oh man do I loves me some mushrooms sauteed in garlic and butter........

246 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:06:20pm

re: #129 pingjockey
Nathan Bedford Forrest

247 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:06:33pm

Also, the Google logo shows fireworks today.

248 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:07:16pm

re: #242 doriangrey

Heh heh heh nothing like finding money you didnt know you had........

I couldn't have come at a better time - payday's Tuesday and the cupboards are almost bare.

&#9834 pease-porridge hot &#9834
&#9834 pease-porridge cold &#9834
&#9834 pease-porridge in the pot &#9834
&#9834 nine days old &#9834

/Yikes!

249 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:07:26pm

re: #243 Miss Trixie

Mushrooms - especially sauteed in butter and garlic. The only way I'll eat them.


Almost anything is palatable when sauteed in butter and garlic. Except an Obama Presidency.

250 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:07:55pm

re: #241 doriangrey

True, so calling him an idiot was probably redundant. ;)

251 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:09:53pm

re: #243 Miss Trixie

Mushrooms - especially sauteed in butter and garlic. The only way I'll eat them.

Oh yum. They're great cooked that way; I also like battered and fried mushrooms with horseradish sauce. OK, I like mushrooms cooked any way, plus raw on salads. lol :)

252 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:09:57pm

re: #241 doriangrey

Well he is after all a koskiddie, which of course means narcissistic and mentally unbalanced...

You know , I have spent very little time over at Kos.
I only go there when somebody mentions something that the are doing.
I agree with the above statement from what I have observed.
The thing that I am most struck by, is the vicious cruelty of some of those people.
It makes you wonder where the wiring went awry.

253 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:11:46pm

re: #234 rorschach

Put that s.o.b.'s name on the list. When the excrement hits the fan, he should pay dearly.

In this case and many like it, seditionists are acting without fear of repercussion. The consequence of their treason puts millions in danger.

Better fill your hand and come after me first, if you dare, moron.

254 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:12:20pm
255 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:12:30pm

The thing that freaks me out about mushrooms is the chance--however remote--of getting a bad one and wind up dead or waiting for a liver transplant.

256 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:12:59pm

re: #252 opnion

You know , I have spent very little time over at Kos.
I only go there when somebody mentions something that the are doing.
I agree with the above statement from what I have observed.
The thing that I am most struck by, is the vicious cruelty of some of those people.
It makes you wonder where the wiring went awry.

Bad breast-feeding experiences and horrific toilet training.

257 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:13:46pm
258 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:13:59pm

re: #252 opnion

It makes you wonder where the wiring went awry.

They're running on 9 volts in a 120 volt society.

259 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:14:15pm

re: #228 gop_patriot

Child labor law violation?

260 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:14:24pm
261 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:14:47pm

re: #256 MandyManners

horrific toilet training.

/in Japanese

262 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:15:30pm

re: #256 MandyManners

Bad breast-feeding experiences and horrific toilet training.


I think you may have hit on something. In all seriousness, the vitriol is appalling & they have their candidate

263 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:15:37pm

re: #252 opnion

You know , I have spent very little time over at Kos.
I only go there when somebody mentions something that the are doing.
I agree with the above statement from what I have observed.
The thing that I am most struck by, is the vicious cruelty of some of those people.
It makes you wonder where the wiring went awry.

Narcissism always leads to exceptional cruelty because when you can only empathize with yourself you cannot grant unto others the simple dignity or compassion that you would expect for your own self.

264 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:15:49pm

re: #228 gop_patriot

My sons always liked to vacuum. Five year old still does. Daughter, not so much. LOL She likes to spray Endust and wipe the furniture. ;)

This is a central vac. thingy so it's easy to push around but, that long tube is a hassle at times.

Dusting, eh? I'm gonna' tell him that it's an adult job, too.

265 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:16:19pm

re: #259 grumpy old codger

Child labor law violation?

Mine doesn't get paid. He gets to eat. *eg*

266 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:16:30pm
267 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:16:49pm

George Bush came to town near me. The traffic should be horrendous in in the area and near Monticello. They said on the radio yesterday that a few roads in the area were closed. All the tickets were given away a few days ago so there was no reason for anyone to try to get in.

Seems Code Pink had other plans.

via Gateway Pundit

Nice... Loons Disrupt Bush at July 4th Naturalization Ceremony (Video)

Code Pink disrupted President Bush at 46th Annual Independence Day Celebration and Naturalization Ceremony

'''This crap is getting reaalllly old.

It was nice of the Leftists to ruin the naturalization ceremony for the new Americans and their families.

It seems that Medea Benjamin had her press pass taken away last week when she was arrested. No problem, a koskid created another one and emailed it to her.

268 Zonie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:16:52pm

I'm glad I read the thread before remarking. It sounds like this case should have been in the FISA courts all along. The ACLU has tried to drag the Bush Administration into court to force them to admit to warrantless wiretapping. The most frustrating thing I read was Zombie's essay and the complete bias of the press in interviewing the Electronic Freedom Frontier and the guy defending the Al-Haramain goons, Eisenburg. AT&T and the government lawyers might as well have been invisible. I hate the media!

269 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:16:53pm
270 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:17:07pm

re: #261 Killian Bundy

/in Japanese

I love it!

271 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:17:19pm

re: #247 Ward Cleaver

Also, the Google logo shows fireworks today.

Some sort of tribute to China?

272 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:17:25pm

re: #262 opnion

I think you may have hit on something. In all seriousness, the vitriol is appalling & they have their candidate

And, they can keep him!

273 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:17:25pm

re: #258 solomonpanting

It makes you wonder where the wiring went awry.

They're running on 9 volts in a 120 volt society.


I wonder if living too long in your mothers basement can kinda screw up your head. Probably, huh?

274 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:17:33pm

bbiab

275 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:18:08pm

Fark.

Had me a funny and interesting story to post and just as I came to the ending, I must have hit some hot keys and I got bumped out to two posts down.

Don't know what the he** I did and I can't duplicate the story.

Rats.

276 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:18:19pm

re: #263 doriangrey

Narcissism always leads to exceptional cruelty because when you can only empathize with yourself you cannot grant unto others the simple dignity or compassion that you would expect for your own self.

Yup,

277 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:19:05pm

re: #254 ploome hineni

before you put your salad dressing into the salad, cut up some fresh mushrooms and let them soak in the salad dressing for an hour or so

yummmmmmmmmm

Yes! Wonderful that way! I also cut some tomatoes into the mix...

278 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:19:13pm

Per Charles' update up top-

Defendants will not be able to use the accidentally released, classified document. Good! And he's only given them 30 days to come up with something non-classified to use in their suit. Also good.

In Wednesday's ruling, Walker said Congress, in the 1978 law, had established "the exclusive means for foreign intelligence activities" - an apparent rejection of Bush administration arguments that the president has the constitutional authority to order wiretapping on his own.

But Walker said Al-Haramain faces an obstacle that may be insurmountable: The wiretap document remains a government secret and can't be used to prove that the onetime charity was affected by the surveillance program.

He noted that a federal appeals court ruled in November that Al-Haramain's lawyers also could not rely on their memories of the document to establish that the group had been wiretapped.

279 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:19:24pm

re: #272 MandyManners

And, they can keep him!

Oh no, they want to punish all of us with Barry.

280 Zonie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:20:05pm

re: #263 doriangrey

Narcissism always leads to exceptional cruelty because when you can only empathize with yourself you cannot grant unto others the simple dignity or compassion that you would expect for your own self.

I have a guy I used to work with who I argue with through email. I have repeatedly asked him to be polite and not make ad hominem attacks. He ignores what I say and continues to attack me personally. I've demanded he apologize and he ignores that too. He's nuts, I think. My last email I warned him I will stop answering his emails if he continues. Narcissistic might apply in his case. He was a weird guy.

281 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:21:22pm

re: #259 grumpy old codger

Child labor law violation?

Heh! If you ask them, cleaning their rooms is the big child labor law violation. Vacuuming and dusting is fun for some reason!

282 NonNativeTexan  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:21:32pm

re: #274 MandyManners
OT
Hey Mandy , read comments for 269 and 270. Timing
is pretty funny.

283 Miss Trixie  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:22:13pm

Before I go out to water my small courtyard, I just wanted to mention that the summer's first Charles Johnson day Lilly is about to pop into glorious, cheerful splendor.

:D

284 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:23:58pm

re: #283 Miss Trixie

Before I go out to water my small courtyard, I just wanted to mention that the summer's first Charles Johnson day Lilly is about to pop into glorious, cheerful splendor.

:D

Heh heh heh is it a Icarus Lilly...

285 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:24:35pm

re: #273 opnion

I wonder if living too long in your mothers basement can kinda screw up your head. Probably, huh?

There must be a joke there, somewhere:

How many koskids living in their mother's basements does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

286 gop_patriot  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:25:22pm

re: #264 MandyManners

I think my daughter is older than your son. She's 11- when she was younger I didn't let her dust either, too tempting to spray too much Endust or whatever. lol

287 opnion  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:26:15pm

re: #285 solomonpanting

There must be a joke there, somewhere:

How many koskids living in their mother's basements does it take to screw in a lightbulb?


Just guessing, but I think that an electrician would be summoned.

288 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:27:42pm

re: #285 solomonpanting


How many koskids living in their mother's basements does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None, koskiddies
a) live in denial of the darkness
b) cant figure out how to change a light bulb
c) are blind as bats and cant tell the bulb is burned out
d) and would rather do bong hits then change the burned out bulb anyways...

289 Perry  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:28:40pm

re: #285 solomonpanting

There must be a joke there, somewhere:

How many koskids living in their mother's basements does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

1) One to change it and all the others to criticize

2) Only Markos standing still; the world will revolve around him

3) Isn't that what Mom is for?

290 rawmuse  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:31:05pm

re: #234 rorschach

If you wish to threaten a sitting Federal judge, and a good one, I suggest you find another venue to do it. That will be my only polite response.

291 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:36:19pm

re: #264 MandyManners

re: #286 gop_patriot

Enjoy them while they're young. I'd give anything to have them underfoot and giving me "grief" now.

292 doriangrey  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:37:10pm

re: #291 grumpy old codger

re: #286 gop_patriot

Enjoy them while they're young. I'd give anything to have them underfoot and giving me "grief" now.

ROTFLMAO................You only think that now because they aren't..............

293 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 3:41:08pm

re: #292 doriangrey

You're right. rest and antacids cured the ulcers!

294 once and future angeleno  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 4:37:59pm

A quite heartening thing about this thread is discovering how many of us live in the SF Bay area -- and here I was feeling all alone. (Except for you, Zombie -- whoever you are: you rock and your videos roll.) I agree with the general assessment of Judge Walker -- he is a most sensible judge, and we could do with more like him.

I take it as my duty to live here in SF, in what is today an utterly beautiful piece of the Earth, just so I can lob emails to Pelosi and Boxer beginning "As I am constituent of yours, ...." and give them a little piece of common sense.

Let's have a mass migration to SF! Take back the City! There is still a large group of traditional San Franciscans whose ancestors arrived pre-Woodstock -- they just keep kinda quiet for all-too-obvious reasons.

And there is hope in the younger group: the SF school board is trying to strangle JROTC bit by bit, and often there are a few windblown teens standing on street corners, petition clipboards in hand, clinging to homemade cardboard signs: "SAVE JROTC!"

Hope springs. If you didn't watch the "1,215 soldier re-enlist in Bagahdad" YouTube linked above, please do. Bless them all, and may God continue to bless and protect our great country.

295 nyc redneck  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 4:58:38pm

re: #257 ploome hineni

salad dressing

mayo
garlic
salt
lemon juice
mustard or Colmans mustard powder

wow, that sounds simple and wonderful.
i think i have made something like that but added dried thyme. we used it on grilled salmon.

296 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 5:05:53pm

Ploome,
If we could cross the salmon with Barack, we could have a fish that flip flops itself on the grill.

297 Bobibutu  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 5:50:05pm

re: #294 once and future angeleno

A quite heartening thing about this thread is discovering how many of us live in the SF Bay area -- and here I was feeling all alone. (Except for you, Zombie -- whoever you are: you rock and your videos roll.) I agree with the general assessment of Judge Walker -- he is a most sensible judge, and we could do with more like him.

I take it as my duty to live here in SF, in what is today an utterly beautiful piece of the Earth, just so I can lob emails to Pelosi and Boxer beginning "As I am constituent of yours, ...." and give them a little piece of common sense.

Let's have a mass migration to SF! Take back the City! There is still a large group of traditional San Franciscans whose ancestors arrived pre-Woodstock -- they just keep kinda quiet for all-too-obvious reasons.

And there is hope in the younger group: the SF school board is trying to strangle JROTC bit by bit, and often there are a few windblown teens standing on street corners, petition clipboards in hand, clinging to homemade cardboard signs: "SAVE JROTC!"

Hope springs. If you didn't watch the "1,215 soldier re-enlist in Bagahdad" YouTube linked above, please do. Bless them all, and may God continue to bless and protect our great country.

I am 4th Gen Bay Area. Witness of it's slide from greatness to the absurd. There are a significant number of us with a brain still here ... we are outnumbered tho by welfare recipient bunny rabbits who keep voting the trough fillers in.

298 once and future angeleno  Fri, Jul 4, 2008 7:56:20pm

re: #297 Bobibutu

Hi there, nice to know you exist and persist in SF. Looks like the Mayor [Gavin Newsome] is planning to ascend to the national stage ... what next, huh.

For those reading here who don't live in the SF Bay area, there's an odd confluence of money and liberal/leftoid politics -- the interstate between SF and Silicon Valley is I-280, and one had best watch out driving the hour or two between SF and the Valley at rush hour: the huge Mercedes and BMWs screaming out of the City (SF) in the morning and back to the City in the evening will run you off the road if you're doing less than 85 -- shades of the Autobahn. The tech and biotech money that gets made in the Valley buys expensive houses in the City like the one where Obama made his famous clinging-to-God-and-guns speech.

Reading the federal elections contribution website listing the names and addresses of those in SF giving money to the various political campaigns shows how completely dominant the dems are here: a real hothouse of liberal guilt. Well-meaning people, many of them, but dominated by lefty groupthink. Pelosi and Feinstein live near each other up on the bluffs overlooking the Bay, and Pelosi has even hung an unofficial 'private road' sign at the entrance to the public street she lives on. Let them eat cake, eh, Nancy.

The middle class teeters on extinction here, given the enormous run up in housing prices in the last ten years -- and even with the recent 'correction' in the bubble, there are still folks snapping up $10 million+ townhouses here. A very interesting place to live -- pretty, fun, so sophisticated -- but depressing, when one contemplates the power that emanates from these people who are so very out of touch with the rest of America, and yet believe that they alone know what is good for the great unwashed masses.

How is it that Republicans have let themselves be tagged as elitist, when exactly the opposite is true?

299 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 12:51:29am

p leak ~ e n · t

(p leak: probability of leak; n: number of employees involved in surveillance program; t: time since start of the program)

300 Timbre  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 8:03:25am

It's not the barbarians at the gates that is the problem. They've always been there. It's the corrupt gatekeepers who let them in--some out of ignorance, some out of complicity.

301 Tangonine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 12:25:12pm

Can't we just give 24 hours notice and then carpet bomb San Francisco into the dustbin of history?


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