LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Overnight Open Thread

Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:58:02 pm PDT

Is it progress if a cannibal uses knife and fork?

Stanislaw Lec

Advertisement

1013 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 9:59:41pm

Its progress when the cannibal uses Rolaids.

2 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 9:59:58pm

Is it progress if a cannibal uses knife and fork?

Huh?

3 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:00:19pm

To think, this comment will last an entire night.

4 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:01:37pm

I sure hope not!

5 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:02:16pm

RUR

6 Buster Bunny  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:02:54pm

after using knife and fork .. a cannibal works his way up the food chain to Democrat.

That way he can eat his own kind .. and justify it too.

7 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:03:03pm

Hmmm.

Isn't that quote by Stanislaw Lem?

/picky, I know ...

8 stevieray  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:03:31pm

In a multi-culti society, cannibalism is simply a matter of taste.

9 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:03:39pm

I would say.. no.

10 Buster Bunny  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:04:01pm

Stanislaw Lec .. who is that?

11 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:04:24pm

re: #7 RedPepper

Different guy:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

12 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:04:43pm

70 year old man lynched over cannibalism in central Uganda

Not word on whether he used a knife and fork.

13 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:05:10pm

re: #8 stevieray

Gives new meaning to the term, "Cultural Assimilation" - doesn't it?

14 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:05:17pm

"At the outbreak of the war he was imprisoned in a German concentration camp. There he stayed until July 1943 when the camp was liquidated by mass executions. Escaping in a German uniform, he succeeded in reaching Warsaw where he joined the underground fighters. After the war he continued his writing, varying his career by brief service as cultural attache of the Polish Embassy in Vienna. He has also spent two years in Israel."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

15 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:05:20pm

Hey Lizards, Poland doesn't want a missile defense shield! Can anyone else hear the Germans salivating? /Snark.

16 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:05:34pm

Good Morning all. Night shift checking in with some on quote content. ;)

17 Buster Bunny  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:00pm

re: #12 NJDhockeyfan

70 year old man lynched over cannibalism in central Uganda

Not word on whether he used a knife and fork.

but did he brush his teeth after? you know how hard it is getting human out from between teeh .. if you leave it overnight ...

18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:15pm

Watching the horror movie "The Signal". Trying to figure out if I like it or not. Its interesting.

19 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:17pm

re: #16 BlueCanuck

Excellent choice of meat!

20 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:27pm

re: #17 Buster Bunny

but did he brush his teeth after? you know how hard it is getting human out from between teeh .. if you leave it overnight ...

tooth picks work best.

21 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:34pm

re: #11 jaunte

Thanks! Shoulda checked ...

22 LoFlyer  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:40pm

Been reading "Exodus" for a couple of weeks I picked it up during Jury duty. Arabs and Jews, a deadly mix...

23 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:48pm

Wrong

Karel Čapek

.
Sorry.

24 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:06:50pm

re: #17 Buster Bunny

but did he brush his teeth after? you know how hard it is getting human out from between teeh .. if you leave it overnight ...

Use unwaxed floss.

25 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:07:02pm

re: #19 lone_wolf_in_illinois

Hey, I try my best and sometimes I even succeed.

26 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:08:00pm

Street Gang Safety Tip. The guy with the NRA sticker on his car owns the wrong home to invade.

27 Da_Beerfreak  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:08:37pm

re: #8 stevieray

In a multi-culti society, cannibalism is simply a matter of taste.

Would that be an acquired taste,
or an evolving one?
// {;-)™

28 wiffersnapper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:08:46pm

Doesn't this also beg the question: If you eat hufu, is it cannibalism?

29 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:09:07pm

re: #25 BlueCanuck

If on the first, second, third, forth, fifth or sixth times you don't succeed....

30 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:09:10pm

{{{Blue}}}

31 Buster Bunny  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:09:16pm

re: #28 wiffersnapper

no .. thats mofo

32 Buster Bunny  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:10:11pm

tastes like chicken .. so i've heard.

33 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:10:53pm

re: #26 pat

I have that sticker on my car and our house has never been invaded. You might be on to something there. It sure isn't the two dumb dogs that would probably sleep through everything or would beg for a treat.

34 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:11:54pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I watched that a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't what I was expecting - it felt kind of 'small' if you know what I mean, but the scene where the guy puts the tinfoil on his head to block the evil satellite beams was funny(maybe unintentionally?).

35 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:12:19pm

re: #26 pat

Street Gang Safety Tip. The guy with the NRA sticker on his car owns the wrong home to invade.


Item in The Darwin Awards: moron goes into an arms shop in broad daylight, pulls a weapon and shouts, "This is a- "

Which is about as far as HE got, before the off-duty policeMEN and other customers drew down and unloaded on him!

Cleanup detail found 47 expended cases in the store, and the coroner found 23 rounds in the corpse. Nobody else was injured.

/duhhhh

36 Bob in Breckenridge  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:12:45pm

re: #33 Mich-again

I have that sticker on my car and our house has never been invaded. You might be on to something there. It sure isn't the two dumb dogs that would probably sleep through everything or would beg for a treat.

/Maybe if you wouldn't insult your dogs they'd be more receptive to protecting your property.

37 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:13:13pm
38 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:13:47pm

re: #30 LeePro

{LeePro} Good morning. How's things in your neck of the woods?

39 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:13:57pm

re: #32 Buster Bunny

"You are what you eat." ~ Anon.

/(circular reasoning, in this case)

40 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:15:06pm

re: #32 Buster Bunny

Nope, more like pork. The slang term for human is long pig.

/just one second and I'll find some recipes. ;)

41 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:15:31pm

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.

On the TV is a scientist warning that the event was like a red tide; the first sign that the planet is rejecting humans as pests.

Earth hates us?

42 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:15:47pm

nite all.see you guys in the morning.

43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:16:17pm

re: #34 eastvillageinfidel

I watched that a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't what I was expecting - it felt kind of 'small' if you know what I mean, but the scene where the guy puts the tinfoil on his head to block the evil satellite beams was funny(maybe unintentionally?).

The idea was good and they didn't follow the conventional Hollywood model, which I enjoyed, but you are right. It does seem like something was missing. I'd definately rate it as above average, merely for its execution.

44 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:16:49pm

re: #38 BlueCanuck

{LeePro} Good morning. How's things in your neck of the woods?

Kinda sleepy right now... but since joining the NRA the other day, I do feel a little........ TALLER!

How are you? And GF? And dog? And job?

45 stevieray  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:17:55pm

Watch out for tainted meat! Kuru.

46 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:18:02pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Good grief!

How egocentric, arrogant and ignorant that 'TV scientist' shows himself to be! "...the planet... rejecting humans..."

/and WHO CARES if he's a transvestite? Its not relevant at all!

47 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:18:20pm

Iran warns of Gulf blitzkrieg, Hormuz closure

The chief of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards militia, General Mohammad Ali Jafari, meanwhile, warned that his forces would use "blitzkrieg tactics" in the Gulf if his country came under attack.

"The Guards are equipped with the most advanced missiles that can strike the enemies' vessels and naval equipment with fatal blows," Fars quoted the Guards chief as saying.

In case of attack, "blitzkrieg tactics and operations of the Guards' boats will not leave a chance for the enemies to run away."

Famous last words. Last time, we sank their entire navy in less than a day.

/go ahead, stick your wet finger in the light socket again

48 Sgt.Slappy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:18:42pm

If a man who cannot count finds a four-leaf clover, is he lucky?
-another one from Stan

49 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:19:09pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy

This time, they'll craftily have a cat in their pants.

50 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:19:26pm

re: #44 LeePro

Kinda sleepy right now... but since joining the NRA the other day, I do feel a little........ TALLER!

How are you? And GF? And dog? And job?

Doing fine. Did a heart stress test on Friday. Thought it was rather neat being injected with a radioactive isotope. Unfortunately I didn't glow at night. Girlfriend is good, got dumped from the T.V. gig she was doing due to politics. But she's now shortlisted for future work. Puppy is really growing and fun to be around. Job? Well same old, same old. Need to recruit a better class of minion I think.

51 yehoshua  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:19:38pm

A cannibal was taking a cruise and called for room service.
When the steward arrived, he handed the cannibal a menu.
"Sorry, but I don't need this," the cannibal told the steward. "Do you think you could just bring me a passenger list?"

52 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:20:06pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy

No, no Killian, its "Hold the fork in your mouth and stick the fork in the socket, again!"

/they're SLOW that way...

53 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:20:09pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Another movie in the same vein was 'The Last Winter'. The premise was spirits of dead animals in Alaska were mad that we were drilling oil there. It blew in a most spectacular and absurd fashion. When you like scary movies, you suffer a lot of duds.

54 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:20:37pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy

Iran warns of Gulf blitzkrieg, Hormuz closure

Famous last words. Last time, we sank their entire navy in less than a day.

/go ahead, stick your wet finger in the light socket again

If I remember Saddam talked like that before we destroyed his military.

55 Cartman  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:21:08pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.

Earth hates us?

One of my bro-in-law's relatives got going on just that theme yesterday at a 4th of July get-together. He seemed deadly serious. My nephew and I just rolled our eyes. Later he asked me "do you think he really believes that stuff?". It was an interesting day.

56 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:21:53pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Earth hates us?

Earth’s Cries Recorded In Space

Earth emits an ear-piercing series of chirps and whistles that could be heard by any aliens who might be listening, astronomers have discovered.

The earth is shrieking in agony ...

/(wait 'til alGore finds out!)

57 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:22:15pm

re: #36 Bob in Breckenridge

/Maybe if you wouldn't insult your dogs they'd be more receptive to protecting your property.

Maybe. But I doubt it.

58 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:22:17pm

When I put on my clear window NRA sticker on my car, all in office laughed at me. Nothing new there. That was 15 years ago. Now they say it is better than force shield. Office asked for them after 3 months.

59 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:22:19pm

re: #49 jaunte

This time, they'll craftily have a cat in their pants.

Not sure what that means exactly.

/but, as a cat owner, I can say it certainly doesn't sound desirable

60 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:22:45pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.

Earth hates us?

The Earth tried to "reject" us before with an ice age that we managed to live through, by adapting to our surroundings and learning to live with what was available. That is why my new survival kit has a hammock, sunglasses, a good book, miniature umbrellas, Malibu, fresh fruit and a case of beer on artificially created ice!

61 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:23:48pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy

Iranian admirals have glass bottomed boats. So they can review the fleet.

62 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:24:00pm

re: #54 NJDhockeyfan

If I remember Saddam talked like that before we destroyed his military.

I had an Arab-English friend call me about 4 days before the Fall of Baghdad, breathlessly telling me of the deaths ('unreported by western media') of thousands of Americans and the total destruction of billions of dollars worth of American equipment '...at the hands of the United Arab Armies...'

/I didn't laugh in his ear, but he didn't repeat that error! UAA indeed!

63 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:24:05pm

re: #26 pat

Street Gang Safety Tip. The guy with the NRA sticker on his car owns the wrong home to invade.

no...... by all means *please* invade my house.

/Darwin awards to all comers %-)

64 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:24:15pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.

Earth hates us?

Just a tight fart after The Affirmative Action Candidate's last belch of bullshit.

65 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:24:54pm

re: #59 Killian Bundy

I'm not sure what that meant myself. Here's a translation attempt: I think they think they have some special mojo. which will be backfiring as soon as they put it into play, and with the extra self-confidence it gives them, they'll put a foot way wrong.

66 stevieray  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:25:04pm

re: #50 BlueCanuck

What! You were injected with radioactive materials, yet you gained no superpowers? Comic books and 50's movies cannot all be lying!

*begins reassessing my plans for world domination*

67 hack  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:25:08pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.

Earth hates us?

yes, but mars needs women.

go figure.

68 LoFlyer  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:25:39pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Someone mentioned M. Night Shyamalan's new movie on the previous thread. This is a snippet from IMDB about The Happening.


Earth hates us?

No, the greenies hate only humans. Grizzlies killing humans is a beautiful event to jerks who reveal in the death of civilization.

69 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:25:47pm

re: #29 lone_wolf_in_illinois

If on the first, second, third, forth, fifth or sixth times you don't succeed....

forth?

/ %-)

70 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:25:50pm

re: #56 RedPepper

The chirps and whistles MAY INDEED come from Earth, but its obvious they are chirps and whistles of delight, gratitude, exultation!

/morons don't listen carefully...

71 Roentgen  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:26:14pm

Is it progress if a cannibal uses knife and fork?

— Stanislaw Lec

OK,here we go:

Two cannibals are sitting around the campfire. They were just their dinner, poor chap, who had been a clown. One cannibal turns to the other and says: "Hey, you taste something funny?"

72 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:27:05pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh yeah, I didn't dislike it at all, really, I just was expecting a little more. There was huge potential there, and it does bode well for the film industry outside of Hollywood.

73 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:27:23pm

Maybe the intend to use the dirt from the graves for the 400,000 invaders they will kill to silt the Hormuz Straight.
/that will piss of Cousteau

74 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:27:35pm

re: #69 redc1c4

Good thing GOTC isn't in tonight!

75 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:27:44pm

re: #44 LeePro

Hey Leepro.... did you ever get my email (from last night)? I haven't logged onto my "work" computer since yesterday, so don't know if you had sent something back.....

-just curious.

76 Bob in Breckenridge  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:28:22pm

re: #61 Mich-again

Iranian admirals have glass bottomed boats. So they can review the fleet.

They buy them second-hand from the french navy.

77 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:28:23pm

re: #66 stevieray

yeah, I was disappointed too. It only had a half life of six hours to boot.

/think I surprised the nurse when I asked the question.

78 gop_patriot  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:28:41pm

re: #62 Karridine

That was awful nice of you not to laugh and mock him mercilessly. ;)

79 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:28:46pm

re: #44 LeePro

Kinda sleepy right now... but since joining the NRA the other day, I do feel a little........ TALLER!

How are you? And GF? And dog? And job?

which reminds me: i have to get 2H6 to join.....

(and fill out the paperw*rk for my younger nephew to be a legacy Life member....... which will piss off my SiL no end. %-)

80 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:28:48pm

re: #71 Roentgen

forget the verb much?

They were just ..... their dinner, poor chap, who had been a clown.

81 Roentgen  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:29:29pm

re: #80 Karridine

PIMF!

82 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:29:58pm

re: #70 Karridine

Maybe they are cries for help ...

83 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:31:55pm

re: #78 gop_patriot

Yeah, I almost blasted my lungs out my nose...

Truth is, he's a friend, even with his ideas of mutant-Muslim domination, eventually, somehow, sort of ...

United (!) Arab Armies...

Next day I emailed him "Why Arab Armies Lose" and he was silent for a month, Patriot!

84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:32:30pm

re: #72 eastvillageinfidel

Oh yeah, I didn't dislike it at all, really, I just was expecting a little more. There was huge potential there, and it does bode well for the film industry outside of Hollywood.

I was expecting more for an ending, though to be honest, I hate the tidy neat little bow or obvious plug for a sequel endings. I hate when the movie includes a "here is why and how everything happened" scene for no reason other than to spoon feed how clever the filmmakers were to the audience. This movie avoided both of those.

85 Cartman  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:32:52pm

Sometimes I feel like Mother Earth is trying to reject me after I've been to Taco Bell.

86 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:32:56pm

According to the IMDB synopsis, people kill themselves in grisly ways that the camera shows. One guy breaks into a lion's cage and the lion happily oblibes him.

This is hateful stuff. It's anti-life.

I'm in a dark mood tonight.

87 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:33:30pm

fROM "WAR with the Newts."

TALKING LIZARDS
THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC SENSATION

Admission 2 Crowns. Accompanied children half price.

Mr Povondra hesitated. Two crowns, plus one for the boy, that seemed a bit steep. But Frankie did well at school, and seeing outlandish animals was really part of one's education. Mr Povondra was willing to make sacrifices for education and so he stepped up to the wizened little man.

..snip...

that Andrias Scheuchzeri's alleged ability to utter articulated speech was essentially just a parroting of spoken words and, from a scientific point of view, was not nearly as interesting as a number of other questions surrounding that unusual amphibian.

...

It's not impossible that Nature had great plans for that newt,that it was meant to evolve further and further, higher and higher, who could tell how high... (Professor Uher felt a slight shiver run down his spine at this thought;who could tell if Andrias Scheuchzeri had not in fact been meant to become Miocene Man?)

88 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:33:56pm

re: #82 RedPepper

Could be.

Or guffaws, sneering and snark!

Or requests for more Rolaids...

/or maybe just electromagnetic emanations from tectonic shifts and magma fluxes, with no emotive context except what WE humans impose and project onto them...

Naaaaahhh....

89 elton jon benet  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:34:09pm

re: #58 pat

When I put on my clear window NRA sticker on my car, all in office laughed at me. Nothing new there. That was 15 years ago. Now they say it is better than force shield. Office asked for them after 3 months.

I have an old wagon, which I bought from the son of a retired Marine Colonel. His dad was the original owner. I still have the sticker on the back window of 4 guys doing something to a flag. I said flag, not fag.

Siribachi for the win. I am a little redhead, and people don't mess with me.

90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:34:13pm

re: #86 MandyManners

According to the IMDB synopsis, people kill themselves in grisly ways that the camera shows. One guy breaks into a lion's cage and the lion happily oblibes him.

This is hateful stuff. It's anti-life.

I'm in a dark mood tonight.

Unbreakable was his last good movie

91 grahamski  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:34:46pm

I'm running with scissors right now...

92 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:34:55pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Another movie by coke heads drunk with idiocy. The audience is ........who?

93 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:35:03pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy
"The chief of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards militia,"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........ .

shit! i was laughing so hard at that i *almost* spilled my drink. %-)


my cats could take them best two out of three on their "good" day.

94 gop_patriot  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:35:54pm

re: #82 RedPepper

Maybe they are cries for help ...

It all sounds so very "Dr. Who". :)

95 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:36:07pm

re: #93 redc1c4

I am fairly certain that the Olsen Twins could take them on.

96 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:37:03pm

Iranian Blockade 'An Act of War'

Any Iranian move to blockade the Strait of Hormuz would be considered as an "act of war", a top US military official said yesterday.

Iran would "not be allowed" to take control of the key oil route and an attempt to do so would provoke a "vigorous" international response, said outgoing Fifth Fleet Commander Vice-Admiral Kevin Cosgriff.

He was responding to Iranian Revolutionary Guard commander General Mohammed Ali Jafari's warning on Saturday that Iran would choke off the strait if the country was attacked.

A quarter of the world's oil supplies pass through the narrow stretch, between the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Gulf.

"I cannot imagine, given the critical nature of that body of water, that the international community would not be outraged should Iran or any entity move to restrict the freedom of navigation," Vice-Adm Cosgriff told a Press conference at the US navy base in Juffair.

"They are not going to be allowed to do so. It would be an act of war. "In a tight oil market, the international community would respond vigorously to that." He would not specify what action the US would take.

/he sounds pretty confident, like he knows something we don't, and I sleep well because of it

97 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:37:22pm

re: #88 Karridine


/or maybe just electromagnetic emanations from tectonic shifts and magma fluxes, with no emotive context except what WE humans impose and project onto them...

Why, who would ever do a thing like that ? ! ?

98 gop_patriot  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:37:34pm

re: #83 Karridine

even with his ideas of mutant-Muslim domination

Nominated for a rotating title. ROFL!

99 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:38:18pm

re: #91 grahamski

Nooooo!

100 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:38:47pm

re: #50 BlueCanuck

Doing fine. Did a heart stress test on Friday. Thought it was rather neat being injected with a radioactive isotope. Unfortunately I didn't glow at night. Girlfriend is good, got dumped from the T.V. gig she was doing due to politics. But she's now shortlisted for future work. Puppy is really growing and fun to be around. Job? Well same old, same old. Need to recruit a better class of minion I think.

i got a nuke injection prior to my ankle reconstruction..... the squid running the detector asked me which of my knees i was in for. when i told him i was there for an ankle, he told me that all my joints were trash from the waist down. (20 years ago, but they'r not getting any better. %-)

101 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:39:18pm

...so is the Iranian Navy picking up the slack for Tommy Bartlett's Thrill Show?

What do they have? A coupla' ski boats...?

102 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:40:11pm

re: #98 gop_patriot

This guy is a real piece of work... don't get me started... he uses people in some of the lowest ways possible, and gets paid in doing it...

/paid WELL, dang it.

103 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:42:21pm

re: #101 WindHorse

They have Chinese surface-to-surface Silkworm missiles, and an arrogance born of ignorance and 'common sense', secure in the belief that those slow American ships out there in the Straits of Hormuz would be sitting ducks for such missiles, hah!

/stoopid Murricans!

104 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:43:04pm

re: #50 BlueCanuck

Sorry about GF's job... probably wa-a-a-a-ay better off tho.

Puppies RULE!

FYI: You Your dog can join Dogster FREE!

105 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:43:42pm

re: #100 redc1c4

Yeah, I sympathize with the joint thing. My knees act up every now and then. I blame the infantry.

106 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:44:10pm

re: #83 Karridine

Yeah, I almost blasted my lungs out my nose...

Truth is, he's a friend, even with his ideas of mutant-Muslim domination, eventually, somehow, sort of ...

United (!) Arab Armies...

Next day I emailed him "Why Arab Armies Lose" and he was silent for a month, Patriot!

Patriotisim? Fail!

107 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:45:58pm

Oh, that Sharon Lawrence ad's on right now.

THE POLAR BEARS ARE DROWNING! THE POLAR BEARS ARE DROWNING.

108 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:46:02pm

re: #103 Karridine

they might get one.... but I doubt it.

109 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:47:13pm

IF YOU DON'T ACT NOW IT COULD BE TOO LATE FOR THE POLAR BEAR!

110 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:47:45pm

I can't imagine what would happen if Iran sank a US flag vessel...

111 LEGION  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:47:45pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bizzare movie- three parter- I'm still trying to figure if I liked it. Ahhh, it was only a dollar to rent.

112 NY Nana  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:48:19pm

G'nite, all. I am determined to make my self-imposed 2 AM curfew!

Sweet dreams!

113 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:48:39pm

re: #107 MandyManners

Whaddayagonnado?

They can't all get jobs in German zoos ...

114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:48:51pm

re: #105 BlueCanuck

Yeah, I sympathize with the joint thing. My knees act up every now and then. I blame the infantry.

My back is trashed. Okinawa, Norther Training Area. The hasty rappel line was secure, the tree it was attached to was not. 30ft drop down a 60-70% angle, landing on a SAW. That was about 12 years ago and it still hurts.

115 jaunte  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:48:56pm

re: #107 MandyManners

Cancel your flight to the Democratic convention today. Every flight concelled will save 5 polar bears. You can do it. But act today. If we don't act now, it could be too late, for the Polar bear.

116 LEGION  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:49:15pm

re: #109 MandyManners

That ad is baloney of course- they aren't drowning- they are PLAYING on an ice flow that can only be formed in COLD water and wind. Libs are scum lairs.

117 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:49:15pm

re: #69 redc1c4

re: #74 lone_wolf_in_illinois

Good thing GOTC isn't in tonight!

No, but I AM HERE! NO ONE IS SAFE! ! !

heh heh heh

};D

118 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:49:31pm

re: #104 LeePro

I will have to talk to the GF about dogster. Looks like a cool site. But for now he has his on album on my feed. :)

119 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:49:40pm

"Dreams permit each and every one of us to be quietly and safely insane every night of our lives.”

William Dement

Good night!

120 stevieray  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:49:48pm

By the way...

The Straits of Hormuz are over 20 miles wide at their narrowest point, and over 200 feet deep through most of the shipping lanes. A few sunken tankers or Iranian naval ships couldn't come close to blocking it.

[somebody was asking about this earlier]

121 elton jon benet  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:50:44pm

re: #111 LEGION

Bizzare movie- three parter- I'm still trying to figure if I liked it. Ahhh, it was only a dollar to rent.

I saw an interesting flick recently, which I got from the local library. Grizzly Man. The guy was messed up, but he died doing what he wanted, single, no kids. Down here, he would have been doped up on anti-depressants and miserable.

122 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:51:00pm

re: #103 Karridine

They have Chinese surface-to-surface Silkworm missiles

/20mm Phalanx CIWS terminal defense system

123 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:51:00pm

re: #75 WindHorse

Hey Leepro.... did you ever get my email (from last night)? I haven't logged onto my "work" computer since yesterday, so don't know if you had sent something back.....

-just curious.

Yep. Got it TWICE! ! ! Answered. River (Memphis) Lizards are getting together on July 26th...

hee hee

124 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:51:18pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nothing's worse than that insulting 'let's put it all together for the dum-dums' scene except the 'let's completely convolute the whole premise because we might have a chance for a franchise' scene. I will give any movie competing outside the Hollywood machine a chance just for this reason.

125 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:52:14pm

re: #120 stevieray

Standard artillery has a 16 mile range, unassisted. That is the problem.

126 transient  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:52:50pm

re: #120 stevieray

The Straits of Hormuz are over 20 miles wide at their narrowest point, and over 200 feet deep through most of the shipping lanes. A few sunken tankers or Iranian naval ships couldn't come close to blocking it.

But I assume at this point we could blow up anything they sunk there. They could also mine it. I assume we can destroy those too, but not my area of expertise.

127 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:53:03pm

re: #67 hack

yes, but mars needs women.

go figure.

And here I was always told that Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. Wow, I'm so disappointed now.

128 victor_yugo  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:53:05pm

re: #107 MandyManners

"Our whole world will be a ball of fire,
Polar bears drown, drown, drown, as the seas get higher,
And it burns, burns, burns, a ball of fire,
The Earth on fire."

A really good Paul Shanklin parody. (I think this points to it.)

129 Edouard  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:53:18pm

Oh, how I dig Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe & Rockpile: "A Knife and Fork"

Girl, you let a knife and fork dig your grave.
You eat every kind of food.
You ain't nothing but a slave.
If you don't slacken up your pace,
They're gonna throw food in your face--
Girl, you let a knife and fork dig your grave.

Girl, you let a knife and fork get you down.
If you keep this up, little girl,
You won't be 'round.
If you don't change some of your ways,
Girl, you're gonna shorten all your days--
Girl, you let a knife and fork get you down.

Eat, eat, eat, that's your middle name.
Oh, the way you stuff yourself, it's a doggone shame.
[Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah]

Girl, you let a knife and fork call your hand.
You gobble all the food inside
That you can.
If you don't change some of your ways,
They're gonna shorten all your days.
Girl, you let a knife and fork call your hand.

Wearin' a size 44,
You have to turn sideways to get thru the door,
Girl, you let a knife and fork dig your grave.
Girl, you let a knife and fork dig your grave.
Girl, you let a knife and fork dig your grave.

130 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:53:27pm

re: #114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My back is trashed. Okinawa, Norther Training Area. The hasty rappel line was secure, the tree it was attached to was not. 30ft drop down a 60-70% angle, landing on a SAW. That was about 12 years ago and it still hurts.

what was a saw doing there? maybe they were building a new rappel wall, and the engineers left their tools behind?

Death before dismount..... if it doesn't involve a vehicle, i'm uninterested.

131 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:54:00pm

re: #115 jaunte

Cancel your flight to the Democratic convention today drive to the polling place November 4th. Every flight drive cancelled will save 5 polar bears. You can do it. But act today. If we don't act now, it could be too late, for the Polar bear.

Even better ...

132 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:54:01pm

re: #123 LeePro

Cool! I am glad you received it.

Hmmm the 26th... That would be fun, but I am not sure we will be able to get there for that.

But, you never know.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks btw!

133 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:54:16pm

The Polar bears should move to Antarctica. The ice is growing there.

Plus there are tasty penguins.

134 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:55:05pm

re: #108 WindHorse

they might get one.... but I doubt it.


I doubt it, too... those ships have ELEGANT, OVERLAPPING DEFENSES, 24/7... and the bright young Americans running their stations at radar and other ELINT/COMINT posts are AMERICANS... intelligent, motivated and life-loving...

The Iranians with access to weapons are fear-motivated, kept ignorant, denied access to sources of information, and haven't been allowed to know of the coming of The Bab (al-Qaim) and Baha'u'llah (The Glory of God, al-Mahdi) to their own nation, May 22, 1844/1260 AH...

That is SOME iggorance... so I, too, doubt they'd get enough ships to make a difference, before being met with overwhelming, expertly aimed and competently delivered FORCE, Horse!

135 Bob in Breckenridge  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:55:49pm

re: #107 MandyManners

Oh, that Sharon Lawrence ad's on right now.

THE POLAR BEARS ARE DROWNING! THE POLAR BEARS ARE DROWNING.

/Bears drowning? Is that unusual?

136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:56:09pm

re: #130 redc1c4

what was a saw doing there? maybe they were building a new rappel wall, and the engineers left their tools behind?

Death before dismount..... if it doesn't involve a vehicle, i'm uninterested.

M-249 SAW, not the tool saw

137 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:56:18pm

re: #121 elton jon benet

Oh my goodness, that guy was crazy! If it's the same guy I'm thinking of his girlfriend was killed by bears too. It was horrible.

138 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:56:24pm

re: #91 grahamski

I'm running with scissors right now...

LOL!
Good one!
And welcome to Lizardia, hatchling!

;D

139 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:57:24pm

re: #120 stevieray

By the way...

The Straits of Hormuz are over 20 miles wide at their narrowest point, and over 200 feet deep through most of the shipping lanes. A few sunken tankers or Iranian naval ships couldn't come close to blocking it.

They're not going to be allowed to do that.

/I don't think they understand the order of magnitude of the incredible military disparity they're on the wrong end of

140 gop_patriot  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:57:32pm

re: #104 LeePro


Your dog is so cute!
I think I'll send him an invite to be Pup Pals with my dog. ;)

141 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:58:15pm

re: #116 LEGION

That ad is baloney of course- they aren't drowning- they are PLAYING on an ice flow that can only be formed in COLD water and wind. Libs are scum liars.

As evidence that the polar bears ARE NOT DYING, see the previous FOUR recorded high-temp periods during which northern ice-cap and glaciers melted, and the bears survived!

Leftist maroons!

142 elton jon benet  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:58:41pm

re: #137 eastvillageinfidel

Oh my goodness, that guy was crazy! If it's the same guy I'm thinking of his girlfriend was killed by bears too. It was horrible.

That's the one. Just a stone cold nutter.

143 RedPepper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 10:59:50pm

re: #133 Attaboid

The Polar bears should move to Antarctica Germany. The ice is growing zoos are expanding there.

Plus there are tasty penguins children.

144 stevieray  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:00:30pm

re: #139 Killian Bundy

Yep. Heck, I think our air force alone could keep it wide open.

145 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:00:34pm

re: #106 redc1c4

Red, YESSIR!

UGH

Upding
Green
Heart

146 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:00:50pm

re: #110 WindHorse

I can't imagine what would happen if Iran sank a US flag vessel...

are there any of those left?

(besides the one's that are painted haze gray, of course. %-)

147 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:03:28pm

re: #125 pat

Standard artillery has a 16 mile range, unassisted. That is the problem.

and, with standard radar assisted counter battery tactics, it has the life expectancy of an beer near me.

/next issue.

148 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:04:11pm
Even Iranian mines could be countered relatively quickly, because of the basing of two Osprey-class coastal minesweepers in Bahrain. Additional minesweeping craft would have to come from the United States, but this is much more capability than was present in the late 1980s. In a naval-air confrontation, one carrier battle group of the United States has a huge advantage against the Iranian military.


link

149 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:05:33pm

re: #146 redc1c4

yes.... there are a few.... tankers and Ro-Ro ships.....

(and they are over in that neck of the woods as part of the Military Sealift Command....)

150 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:07:03pm

re: #132 WindHorse

If that's too soon, some of us will still join you for coffee/drinks/food whenever you CAN get here!

;D

151 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:08:59pm

re: #140 gop_patriot

Your dog is so cute!
I think I'll send him an invite to be Pup Pals with my dog. ;)

COOL! ! ! Please do!
Didn't know you had a dogster dog!

;D

152 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:09:37pm

re: #150 LeePro

Okay.... thanks!

We would all get a kick out of that. I am working through my schedule over the next couple of days and will drop you an email.

By the way, your dog looks like he is completely happy! (The pic of him on the couch iced it...)

153 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:10:51pm

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

M-249 SAW, not the tool saw

11B10........ did i forget the "/" to make that clear?

for the weight & the bulk, i'm still not sure the MINIMI was that much of an improvement over the 60, but since i never saw them (pun intended) until just before i got, i never got a chance to play with them enough to make any sort of informed decision....... the FN-MAG/M-240 is definitely an improvement over the 60, but i know some users bitch about the stock line, etc.....

154 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:11:53pm

re: #146 redc1c4

....and I thought that tint was referred to as "battleship grey"!

;)

155 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:12:47pm

word up homeys

156 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:13:16pm

re: #155 WrathofG-d

word....

157 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:13:51pm

whaz crack-a-lacking?

158 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:13:53pm

re: #152 windhorse

Okay.... thanks!

We would all get a kick out of that. I am working through my schedule over the next couple of days and will drop you an email.

By the way, your dog looks like he is completely happy! (The pic of him on the couch iced it...)

He is beautiful, smart, and completely Cesar-Millan-ified!

159 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:13:55pm

re: #154 windhorse

....and I thought that tint was referred to as "battleship grey"!

;)

/haze grey and underway

160 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:14:22pm

re: #146 redc1c4

Red, I CAN imagine a tactical, retaliatory response... it would quickly and efficiently incapacitate the Iranians.

The problem is, the IRANIANS cannot imagine us doing so...

161 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:14:41pm

re: #159 Killian Bundy

right on.... in that context.... I like yours better!

162 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:15:12pm

re: #153 redc1c4

I do know that the SAW was an improvement over the FNC2 we used up here. A 200 round belt versus a 30 round magazine. The weight was similar but the amount of lead thrown down range was great improvment. It did have a few quirks but nothing you couldn't compensate for. The emergency magazine feed was a bit sucky. But it may have been the cheap plastic magazines that we were using.

163 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:16:17pm

re: #129 Edouard

and then there's Marie Provost


/true story, except she wasn't a suicide, AFAIK.

164 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:16:37pm

re: #141 Karridine

Seasonal Factor Seen in Melting and Ice Shifts in Greenland

a Dutch study using 17 years of satellite measurements in western Greenland suggests that the movement associated with the meltwater is not as rapid as had been feared. The acceleration appears to be a transient summer phenomenon, the researchers said, with the yearly movement actually dropping slightly in some places.

It seems the NYT has discovered Arctic warming is seasonal.

165 DesertSage  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:17:26pm

Hi Lee, Wrath, Killian, Red and everyone else.

What a wonderful weekend I've been having. Just got home from my second barbecue and I'm feeling good. Hope you all have had a great 4th of July weekend also. What a great country we have.

166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:17:32pm

re: #153 redc1c4

11B10........ did i forget the "/" to make that clear?

for the weight & the bulk, i'm still not sure the MINIMI was that much of an improvement over the 60, but since i never saw them (pun intended) until just before i got, i never got a chance to play with them enough to make any sort of informed decision....... the FN-MAG/M-240 is definitely an improvement over the 60, but i know some users bitch about the stock line, etc.....

I liked it. Not overbulky. Accurate out to 800-1000 meter, but still usable for close quarter, room or trench clearing. The one thing I did not like was the sling set up, which shifted its center of gravity to the left if you slung it cross body. A little 550 cord solved that though.

167 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:18:00pm

at the risk of pissing off liberals (oops... progressives, I think it would be a good thing for this country right now to get involved in a little scrapping.... you know..... give some deserving, troublemaker of a country a good ass-kicking.

(and yes, I am inherently and philosophically opposed to war generally..... but I ain't stupid neither)

168 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:18:05pm

re: #164 Neo Con since 9-11

Seasonal Factor Seen in Melting and Ice Shifts in Greenland

It seems the NYT has discovered Arctic warming is seasonal.

Well... no! The NYT isn't REQUIRED to dig THAT deep, is it? C'mon, now...

169 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:18:05pm

re: #154 windhorse

....and I thought that tint was referred to as "battleship grey"!

;)

not for years...... great naval resource here.

170 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:19:44pm

re: #162 BlueCanuck

I do know that the SAW was an improvement over the FNC2 we used up here. A 200 round belt versus a 30 round magazine. The weight was similar but the amount of lead thrown down range was great improvment. It did have a few quirks but nothing you couldn't compensate for. The emergency magazine feed was a bit sucky. But it may have been the cheap plastic magazines that we were using.

Thats true, the slot for the m-16 magazine had a tendency to not work too well. Better to stick with the belted ammo

171 windhorse  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:19:47pm

re: #169 redc1c4

very cool link.... thank you!

very cool.....

172 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:20:24pm

re: #162 BlueCanuck

I do know that the SAW was an improvement over the FNC2 we used up here. A 200 round belt versus a 30 round magazine. The weight was similar but the amount of lead thrown down range was great improvment. It did have a few quirks but nothing you couldn't compensate for. The emergency magazine feed was a bit sucky. But it may have been the cheap plastic magazines that we were using.

nope: everyone i've talked to said it's sucky, plain & simple. %-)

173 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:22:26pm

re: #165 DesertSage

Hi Lee, Wrath, Killian, Red and everyone else.

What a wonderful weekend I've been having. Just got home from my second barbecue and I'm feeling good. Hope you all have had a great 4th of July weekend also. What a great country we have.

Hey, {Sage}!
Fantastic here! Holiday inspired me to join NRA.

Miss PBJ lately... she ok?

174 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:22:48pm

re: #165 DesertSage

Couldn't agree more!

Amazing that people are still hating on our Country. Perfect? nope, dang freak'n fantastic none-the-less...Yup.

I'm trying to chill out but after a wonderful 4th of July with family, friends, great food, and fireworks, my contempt for those who are continuously trying to hurt and hate on our Country is growing.

It went from mild disagreement, and understanding of their hate as "difference of opinion" to outright lack of patience to their nonsense.

G-d bless AMERICA: Love it or leave it!

175 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:23:11pm

Quit bitching.

/your daddy's or granddaddy's had to lug around the BAR, with the puzzling 20 round magazine

176 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:25:06pm

re: #171 windhorse

very cool link.... thank you!

very cool.....

the mystery pics are always fun...... Andrew is a unique treasure trove of naval intel.

177 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:26:14pm

re: #175 Killian Bundy

Quit bitching.

/your daddy's or granddaddy's had to lug around the BAR, with the puzzling 20 round magazine

yeah, but it *w*rked* with the magazine......

(unlike the SAW. %-)

178 DesertSage  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:26:38pm

re: #173 LeePro

Hey, {Sage}!
Fantastic here! Holiday inspired me to join NRA.

Miss PBJ lately... she ok?

I saw PBJ a few nights ago. She's been really busy. As you know, her friend is very sick. I'll probably see her tomorrow night, I'll give her your regards.

NRA huh? Good for you, Lee!

179 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:27:06pm

re: #175 Killian Bundy

No bitchin' here! Still shopping for something to lug around myself... because I CAN!

180 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:27:33pm

re: #175 Killian Bundy

Yeah, but at the time the BAR was a force multiplier against bolt action rifles. In our army we were lugging around a modern version of a BAR while Americans had the M-60 belt fed. Than again our army wasn't the most up to date at the time.

/I blame the Liberal party for that problem.

181 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:28:47pm

re: #178 DesertSage

Didn't know about sick friend...

Give her a {HUG} and a warm hello. Email can wait 'til she's freer.

182 melinwy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:30:04pm

interesting article...

Glenn Beck interviews Brad Thor
but the real point is "Women causing rapes?"

[Link: www.glennbeck.com...]

183 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:31:05pm

so did some newbies get tossed yet?

184 elton jon benet  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:32:33pm

re: #183 WrathofG-d

so did some newbies get tossed yet?

I'm still here, for now,,,

185 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:32:52pm

Dang!

I have a crenelated ouroboros expanding across my visual field, and can't Google what triggers it OR what underlies it...

Any Google-Fu experts here?

186 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:33:10pm

re: #184 elton jon benet

Funny name. And welcome for now.

I'm pretty new myself.

187 DesertSage  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:33:20pm

re: #179 LeePro

No bitchin' here! Still shopping for something to lug around myself... because I CAN!

Good choices Lee, I have one of these.

188 rightwinger3  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:33:24pm

Good morning everybody! Another lovely day in southern Africa...wish I was home though!

189 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:33:58pm

re: #179 LeePro

No bitchin' here! Still shopping for something to lug around myself... because I CAN!

Smith and Wesson is arguably the Rolls Royce of handguns. Definitely my favorite. You get what you pay for.

/go 9mm pistol with hollow point ammunition

190 Egfrow  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:35:34pm
"We as a nation way too many of our best and brightest citizens as lawyers... this is a testament to the state of our legal systems and it's increased complexities. We need more great minds in our industries."

SCOUTUS, Antonin Scalia.

Ahmen! Too many lawyers litigating our freedom away!

191 Arbalest  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:36:25pm

Speaking of cannibalism (early in this thread), or back-stabbing (NYT threads), or revealing facts even when asked not to (see last line of AP article), MSNBC does an NYT on the AP (first noticed at Ace of Spades):

Secret U.S. mission hauls uranium from Iraq
Last major stockpile from Saddam's nuclear efforts arrives in Canada

As per Ambassador Joe, this stuff, all 600 (US) tons, does not exist, even though the AP says it does.

It looks like the MSM is starting to come clean, or, more likely, that writers, reporters and editors are starting to crack and pad/correct their resumes, in response to downsizing at various newspapers.

192 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:36:34pm

re: #179 LeePro

No bitchin' here! Still shopping for something to lug around myself... because I CAN!

it's an important purchase (besides the $ aspect). take your time and get it right for you.....

/free advice %-)

193 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:37:27pm

re: #185 Karridine

Is that the term or what you see? I have this site you could search on.

194 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:39:48pm

re: #191 Arbalest

But Daily Kos INSISTS that YellowCake does not and DID NOT exist in Saddam's Iraq, so we're left with the awful truth that this is yet ANOTHER example of American government (Bush, et alia) LYING TO US to further their own nefarious ends!

There were NO WMD in Iraq, ergo this stuff was PLANTED THERE by Bushco, Arbalest!

195 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:41:59pm

re: #179 LeePro

I have the Colt version of that. Body shot.

196 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:43:12pm

re: #192 redc1c4

it's an important purchase (besides the $ aspect). take your time and get it right for you.....

/free advice %-)

Shoot the 9mm S&W pistol and you'll forget all about revolvers.

/easier to stay on target, more rounds, easier reloading, things you want when you're shooting for your life

197 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:43:36pm

re: #194 Karridine

sorry that was a mis-ding.

198 gop_patriot  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:44:39pm

re: #197 WrathofG-d

sorry that was a mis-ding.

updinged for ya ;)

199 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:44:58pm

re: #164 Neo Con since 9-11

I don't know man, just because the earth has been through dramatic and sustained geological and meteorological changes over millions of years is no reason to assume that we aren't killing the earth with our SUV's and air conditioners!
/

200 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:45:24pm

re: #197 WrathofG-d

Yeah, yeah... that's what they ALL say...

*rubs forehead, sighs*

201 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:45:56pm

re: #199 eastvillageinfidel

Well AGW is IMHO the greatest conceit.

202 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:45:58pm

re: #187 DesertSage

Good choices Lee, I have one of these.

The (Centennial) S&W 640 is probably close to what I'll settle on. Scored 99 on test in 4-hour shooting class, but with the 642 — tore up my hand, but only the military guy in my class scored better than I.

Do you think the slightly longer barrel will be kinder to my hand? ('Course, I don't anticipate another 4-hour shooting session any time soon! ;D)

203 freetoken  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:46:20pm

re: #164 Neo Con since 9-11

Seasonal Factor Seen in Melting and Ice Shifts in Greenland


It seems the NYT has discovered Arctic warming is seasonal.

Ummm... no, I believe that is not what the research is saying.

The original paper is here. The abstract:

Large and Rapid Melt-Induced Velocity Changes in the Ablation Zone of the Greenland Ice Sheet

Continuous Global Positioning System observations reveal rapid and large ice velocity fluctuations in the western ablation zone of the Greenland Ice Sheet. Within days, ice velocity reacts to increased meltwater production and increases by a factor of 4. Such a response is much stronger and much faster than previously reported. Over a longer period of 17 years, annual ice velocities have decreased slightly, which suggests that the englacial hydraulic system adjusts constantly to the variable meltwater input, which results in a more or less constant ice flux over the years. The positive-feedback mechanism between melt rate and ice velocity appears to be a seasonal process that may have only a limited effect on the response of the ice sheet to climate warming over the next decades.

[My emphasis]

As Andy Revkin pointed out, it is the acceleration (due to the positive feedback) that is happening seasonally. Point being, if the positive feedback (of the melt-water seeping through the ice) occurred continually all year (12 months instead of seasonally) the melting of the Greenland ice sheet would happen much more quickly. Which is of course a good thing.... for if the ice sheet were to melt substantially over just a few decades it would be difficult (impossible?) for us to adapt successfully...

204 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:03pm

re: #189 Killian Bundy

Smith and Wesson is arguably the Rolls Royce of handguns. Definitely my favorite. You get what you pay for.

/go 9mm pistol with hollow point ammunition

one should always make their suggestions with the receiver in mind, not just personal preferences...... from what details LeePro has shared, i'm thinking the Lady Smithline is her best starting place.......

but i could be wrong. %-) i prefer a 45/1911A1, but there's no way 2H6 can deal with that. pending an extended shopping event, she's reasonably happy with a High Power. not my first choice, but obviously, i had one available. she's happy, i'm happy, and John Browning is looking down from on high with a benevolent smile.

205 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:11pm

re: #191 Arbalest

Thank you Montreal, Canada.
(You Capitalist Bastards)

Yellowcake. Yum Yum.

206 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:23pm

re: #189 Killian Bundy

Smith and Wesson is arguably the Rolls Royce of handguns. Definitely my favorite. You get what you pay for.

/go 9mm pistol with hollow point ammunition

Too much gun for me. I'm only 5' nuthin' with arthritis. Can't even pull back the slide on s-autos.

207 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:27pm

re: #201 BlueCanuck

AGW?

208 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:37pm

medina sod

209 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:48pm

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen anybody link The Jews to global warming.

Is that just because I've been reading the wrong websites? Or is there finally one thing in this world that's un-tainted by anti-Semitism?

210 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:48:56pm

re: #202 LeePro

The (Centennial) S&W 640 is probably close to what I'll settle on. Scored 99 on test in 4-hour shooting class, but with the 642 — tore up my hand, but only the military guy in my class scored better than I.

Do you think the slightly longer barrel will be kinder to my hand? ('Course, I don't anticipate another 4-hour shooting session any time soon! ;D)

Seriously, before you decide, shoot a 9mm pistol.

/ten rounds are almost always better than six

211 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:49:48pm

re: #192 redc1c4

Amen!

And thanks!
;D

212 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:49:55pm

re: #203 freetoken

for if the ice sheet were to melt substantially over just a few decades it would be difficult (impossible?) for us to adapt successfully...


Actually, Token, I take issue with this.

I believe we humans COULD adapt, were that melting/sea-rise to take place. We COULD and WOULD relocate from known lowlands and dike up other areas.

We humans are capable of almost ANYTHING WE WANT... when we're united in our will to do it!

213 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:50:36pm

re: #207 eastvillageinfidel

Antrhomophoric Global Warming. Better known as human caused.

/still a crock as far as I am concerned.

214 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:50:57pm

re: #209 Pawn of the Oppressor

Little do they know that we (the Jews) actually are causing Global Warming as a way to get the desert dwelling Arabs out of more of the middle east. What better way to get people to migrate out of their homes then to get the hottest place on Earth (the desert) to heat up.

/idiots never saw us coming.

215 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:51:27pm

re: #213 BlueCanuck

ABsolutely! Crocka-stuff!

216 wiffersnapper  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:51:32pm

I'm interested to see how the "media" will spin the yellowcake story. "Yellowcake doesn't count as a WMD" might be a headline somewhere?

217 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:52:36pm

re: #204 redc1c4

Had experience with weapon familiarization on the Browning highpower. Made me realize that I liked the rifles better. :)

/a real lousy shot with a handgun.
//also realized 99% of movies involving handguns were totally bogus.

218 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:53:00pm

re: #216 wiffersnapper

there have been many stories that confirmed much of the WMD story. They just weren't put on the front page.

The MSM decides what exists, when they decide what to print.

219 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:53:04pm

re: #213 BlueCanuck

Yes, of course, lost track of my progressive acronyms. :)

220 pat  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:53:46pm

re: #203 freetoken

17 years is hardly indicative of anything on an enclosed planetary scale. But the article suggest retreat and panic for the Warmists. As should be. I am a bit worried that we are about to face a cooling. That will mean droughts, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, ans worse.

221 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:54:04pm

re: #219 eastvillageinfidel

No problem. There are so many out there and sometimes the same one will mean several things. Every now and then I have to fire up the old mental harddrive and sort some out properly.

222 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:54:12pm

re: #214 WrathofG-d

So.... THAT explains why great sections of the Sahara Desert are being bought by 'corporations' with names like 'Shlomo-Israel Inc.'...

With the extra water, that trackless waste will become a verdant, productive plot of ground worth TRILLIONS every year, feeding all of humankind, and owned by (dare I say it?) Joooos!

223 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:54:32pm

re: #210 Killian Bundy

Seriously, before you decide, shoot a 9mm pistol.

/ten rounds are almost always better than six

Understand. Agree.

Shot my son's. Like I said in #206, too much gun, can't pull slide.

Not good in critical situation!

224 Attaboid  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:54:44pm

re: #220 pat

It's nature/natural. Get used to it.

225 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:55:14pm

re: #214 WrathofG-d

Little do they know that we (the Jews) actually are causing Global Warming as a way to get the desert dwelling Arabs out of more of the middle east. What better way to get people to migrate out of their homes then to get the hottest place on Earth (the desert) to heat up.

/idiots never saw us coming.

ROFLOL!

226 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:55:42pm

re: #196 Killian Bundy

Shoot the 9mm S&W pistol and you'll forget all about revolvers.

/easier to stay on target, more rounds, easier reloading, things you want when you're shooting for your life

but if it's not easy to carry, you won't have it when you need it. weapon choice is driven by realty of day to day life, and all the variables therein....

i'd pack a 16 on a routine basis, with a 45 back up, but that's never gonna happen here in the PRC. LeePro has her own issues that preclude some of the weapons i might otherwise suggest. better she carry a revolver she's comfortable with and can use competently than that she get something she either can't carry all the time or won't be able to use properly. better 2 or 3 38+P's in the 10 ring than a gun at home in the locker when she needs it.

JMHO. of course. %-)

227 WrathofG-d  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:55:50pm

re: #222 Karridine


So.... THAT explains why great sections of the Sahara Desert are being bought by 'corporations' with names like 'Shlomo-Israel Inc.'...

no, no, no...don't your get it? We actually don't buy the plotz (as we call them) under own own names....we get our Christian "soliders" to do it.

sheeesh, we are cunning don't you know.

228 Karridine  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:56:27pm

re: #227 WrathofG-d

ROFL!

Plots within plotz! GREAT!

229 Arbalest  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:57:07pm

re: #194 Karridine

But, no, see, MSNBC has revealed a secret AP report:

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

See? The AP wouldn't lie. And Kos is simply engaging in a maskirovka (or several, and some of the diarists over ther simply must be stoned when they write, or are affected by the rush; it's the only logical explanation). Ace gives a clue: 'Yellow Cake", not "yellowcake" (Bugs Bunny's "Pronoun Trouble" revisited?), but I'm not buying any conspiracies involving Duncan Hines.

230 redc1c4  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:57:07pm

re: #209 Pawn of the Oppressor

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen anybody link The Jews to global warming.

Is that just because I've been reading the wrong websites? Or is there finally one thing in this world that's un-tainted by anti-Semitism?

i'll take care of that oversight immediately......

/will this delay my check this month? %-)

231 LeePro  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:59:07pm

re: #226 redc1c4

but if it's not easy to carry, you won't have it when you need it. weapon choice is driven by realty of day to day life, and all the variables therein....

i'd pack a 16 on a routine basis, with a 45 back up, but that's never gonna happen here in the PRC. LeePro has her own issues that preclude some of the weapons i might otherwise suggest. better she carry a revolver she's comfortable with and can use competently than that she get something she either can't carry all the time or won't be able to use properly. better 2 or 3 38+P's in the 10 ring than a gun at home in the locker when she needs it.

JMHO. of course. %-)

THANK YOU!

232 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:59:21pm

re: #206 LeePro

Too much gun for me. I'm only 5' nuthin' with arthritis. Can't even pull back the slide on s-autos.

Well, okay.

/still, with .38, make sure you're using hollow point ammunition, Federal manufactures Hydra-Shok rounds, which are arguably state of the art

233 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:00:40am

re: #229 Arbalest

Ah, I stand enlightened! Thank you, Arbalest!

/dontbogarthatjointmyfriend...
dontdrinkthebongwater... :D

234 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:00:58am

re: #196 Killian Bundy

Shoot the 9mm S&W pistol and you'll forget all about revolvers.

/easier to stay on target, more rounds, easier reloading, things you want when you're shooting for your life

not if you can't operate the slide to charge the weapon to begin with......

OA is no fun and there is no "one size fits all" with personal protection weapons.

235 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:02:31am

re: #231 LeePro

THANK YOU!

well, i may be an a55hole, but i'm a good guy a55hole......

(most days. %-)

236 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:03:13am

re: #234 redc1c4

not if you can't operate the slide to charge the weapon to begin with......

OA is no fun and there is no "one size fits all" with personal protection weapons.

/alright, I get the picture

237 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:03:14am

I remember someone here (I can't recall who) researched all the different 9/11 Troofer "theories" and ended up with a list of something like 200+ different proposed prime movers behind the alleged conspiracy, from the Bush Administration to the Freemasons.

I just can't believe that nobody has linked Judaism to rising temperatures somehow. It would be as simple as saying that oil companies are secretly Jewish-owned. Not one Kosite has proposed this? Not a single kiddie over at HuffingPaint or DU has come out and blamed the Joooooos for Global Warming? Not even with code-words like "AIPAC" or "neocon"? I'm surprised.

Actually, I'm disappointed.

I wonder what Jew-haters did before there were Jews?

238 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:03:27am

re: #235 redc1c4

Heck, you're just an ornery man.

/knowing is half the battle.

239 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:04:03am

re: #237 Pawn of the Oppressor

I wonder what Jew-haters did before there were Jews?

You're joking right? Before there were Jews?...

240 eastvillageinfidel  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:04:04am

re: #221 BlueCanuck


Indeed, and yes, AGW is a crock! :)

241 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:05:57am

while y'all are all occupied with the weapons available on the firing line and arguing about stopping power, i figger i'll cruise on down and sweeten up the fruit cup for the sunday brunch, just to make things easy on LoL..... %-)

/cheers!

242 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:07:09am

re: #237 Pawn of the Oppressor

I remember someone here (I can't recall who) researched all the different 9/11 Troofer "theories" and ended up with a list of something like 200+ different proposed prime movers behind the alleged conspiracy, from the Bush Administration to the Freemasons.

I just can't believe that nobody has linked Judaism to rising temperatures somehow. It would be as simple as saying that oil companies are secretly Jewish-owned. Not one Kosite has proposed this? Not a single kiddie over at HuffingPaint or DU has come out and blamed the Joooooos for Global Warming? Not even with code-words like "AIPAC" or "neocon"? I'm surprised.

Actually, I'm disappointed.

I wonder what Jew-haters did before there were Jews?

blamed everything on the fact there were no Jews?

/just guessing %-)

243 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:07:17am

re: #239 WrathofG-d

You're joking right? Before there were Jews?...

I guess it's a chicken-or-egg question. In some cave 50,000 years ago, was there one guy in the hunter-gatherer band who blamed all the band's troubles on that other band of people over on the other side of the valley who worshipped a different god? That other band who controlled all the animal migration, took all the good stone for arrowhead-making, controlled the supply of strong sticks, and was somehow linked to every calamity that befell his tribe?

244 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:07:28am

re: #241 redc1c4

step away from the fruitcup. Just put the antidote by itself on the buffet so people can doctor it at their own leisure.

245 pat  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:08:00am

Once had these little guys.
[Link: i3.photobucket.com...]

246 RTLM  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:08:25am

The re: #234 redc1c4

not if you can't operate the slide to charge the weapon to begin with......

OA is no fun and there is no "one size fits all" with personal protection weapons.

I think the best handgun for home protection is a .357 Magnum. You can get lighter ammo that will stop an intruder and also not travel through your walls to the neighbor's house. Its also simply loaded, simply emptied and simply aimed.

Easy to wield for everyone.

247 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:08:33am

re: #243 Pawn of the Oppressor

I think this disagreement is going to go the way of the ID/Evolution threads....so, I'm going to respectfully change the subject. :D

music?

248 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:10:09am

re: #238 BlueCanuck

Heck, you're just an ornery man.

/knowing is half the battle.

you may be right.......

249 freetoken  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:10:21am

re: #212 Karridine

Actually, Token, I take issue with this.

I added the "successfully" intentionally... for sure, homo sapiens is a very adaptable species; there is little doubt about the ability of the species to pass on its genes. I was thinking more on the line of the impacts... e.g., required rebuilding of seaports. Perhaps the word I should have used is "prosperously".

250 pat  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:10:47am

With a bit of arthritis, the revolver is a good choice. Double action, but learn single. Parts can be honed to reduce effort.

251 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:11:05am

A good .357 revolver is a handy thing to have.

For carry I prefer a 9mm auto. I plan on using a Glock 26 with a Commonoli safety installed (have the 26, haven't put the safety on it yet).

A while back I read a long series of articles written by a guy who had lived through a real "SHTF" scenario following the collapse of the Argentinean economy, and his conclusion was to carry the highest-cap 9mm you could conceal.

252 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:11:29am

re: #244 BlueCanuck

step away from the fruitcup. Just put the antidote by itself on the buffet so people can doctor it at their own leisure.

what fruit cup?

/innocence personified

(yeah, right....... %-)

253 eastvillageinfidel  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:11:35am

re: #237 Pawn of the Oppressor

They sat around scratching themselves waiting for someone to provide them with a culture worth envying .

254 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:13:14am

re: #232 Killian Bundy

Well, okay.

/still, with .38, make sure you're using hollow point ammunition, Federal manufactures Hydra-Shok rounds, which are arguably state of the art

My plan exactly ... and speed-loader (term?)

255 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:13:42am

re: #249 freetoken

Ah.

Okay, that's better...

We'd have to devote several decades to little more than relocating and diking and adapting, but by God WE COULD DO IT, FreeToken! :)

256 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:14:22am

re: #246 RTLM

I think the best handgun for home protection is a .357 Magnum. You can get lighter ammo that will stop an intruder and also not travel through your walls to the neighbor's house. Its also simply loaded, simply emptied and simply aimed.

Easy to wield for everyone.

Home protection? Shotgun.

/just racking it deters 9 out of 10 intruders and it's really hard to miss the other one that's not deterred

257 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:14:46am

re: #252 redc1c4

what fruit cup?

/innocence personified

(yeah, right....... %-)

The last time you were innocent was just before you were weaned. After that it's probably been all down hill. :)

/white smoke.

258 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:16:06am

dang, where is Song & Dance Man?......I miss my late night, 6+ beer, music conversations.

"When I'm Gone"

259 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:16:43am

re: #251 Pawn of the Oppressor

A good .357 revolver is a handy thing to have.

For carry I prefer a 9mm auto. I plan on using a Glock 26 with a Commonoli safety installed (have the 26, haven't put the safety on it yet).

A while back I read a long series of articles written by a guy who had lived through a real "SHTF" scenario following the collapse of the Argentinean economy, and his conclusion was to carry the highest-cap 9mm you could conceal.

well, my worst case scenario is that i'm @ w*rk in one part of LA when the "big one" hits, and i have to part the seas, as it were, to get home.....

i'm thinking a deuce & a half, with a full squad, and 4 or 5 basic loads of ammo *might* get me home in one piece. 45 vs 9? 6-5 and pickem..... one has better power, but what if you miss? you have fewer reloads.....

i'd love to get a Kimber, but that's serious $. until then, i'll have to rely on my 1930's Colt, but since CA says i can't carry anyway.......
dry chemical fire extinguishers are your friend. %-)

260 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:17:44am

re: #235 redc1c4

well, i may be an a55hole, but i'm a good guy a55hole......

(most days. %-)

Nahhh.
You're cool when you wanna be. Not the first time you've stood up for me!

;)

261 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:18:20am

re: #253 eastvillageinfidel

They sat around scratching themselves waiting for someone to provide them with a culture worth envying .

You know that the first guy who ever earned anything with the sweat of his own brow, treated his neighbors well, and believed in cosmic accountibility, was in serious trouble right from the beginning...

262 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:18:32am

re: #257 BlueCanuck

The last time you were innocent was just before you were weaned. After that it's probably been all down hill. :)

/white smoke.

according to my mother, i wasn't born, i was inflicted.

263 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:18:55am

re: #259 redc1c4

Never underestimate the power of a good stick.

/think Robn Hood and Little John, or look to the far east.

264 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:19:11am

re: #239 WrathofG-d

You're joking right? Before there were Jews?...

Ummm...

When would that be...?

265 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:19:30am

re: #258 WrathofG-d

dang, where is Song & Dance Man?......I miss my late night, 6+ beer, music conversations.

"When I'm Gone"

IIRC he got a bit too pushy with the boss.

266 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:19:40am

re: #260 LeePro

euwwwyh.............. cooties!


%-)

267 eastvillageinfidel  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:19:49am

re: #261 Pawn of the Oppressor

You know that the first guy who ever earned anything with the sweat of his own brow, treated his neighbors well, and believed in cosmic accountibility, was in serious trouble right from the beginning...


Yep.

268 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:20:58am

re: #265 Neo Con since 9-11

He/she got tossed? Really? Sun of a...... Didn't know that. Shame.

269 RTLM  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:22:34am

re: #256 Killian Bundy

Home protection? Shotgun.

/just racking it deters 9 out of 10 intruders and it's really hard to miss the other one that's not deterred

Is your wife willing/able to rack and shoot a 12 gauge? The light revolver/revolver ammo has more than one reason.

(in my circumstance)

270 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:24:12am

re: #264 LeePro

Ummm...

When would that be...?

By Biblical chronology and a certain interpretation of what makes somebody Jewish (i.e. "Walking with G-d", as it is said of Noah), there were Jews right from the beginning... At least, if I am reading my Tanakh right. I think this is correct? I mean no offense, just trying to understand.

I was speaking earlier of the conventional outsider's interpretation of "Jewish" meaning, of Exodus, post-Sinai, following the Laws given there, etc.

271 eastvillageinfidel  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:25:13am

re: #265 Neo Con since 9-11

OMG! Song and Dance Man got booted? Wow! I am really out of the loop. I've gotta make an effort to be here more often.

272 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:25:30am

re: #256 Killian Bundy

Home protection? Shotgun.

/just racking it deters 9 out of 10 intruders and it's really hard to miss the other one that's not deterred

Right.
And an anemic click of the slide NOT properly racked will tell the intruder ...what?

...that I can't handle my own gun!

273 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:28:11am

re: #266 redc1c4

LOL!

274 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:28:22am

re: #263 BlueCanuck

Never underestimate the power of a good stick.

/think Robn Hood and Little John, or look to the far east.

long stick goes boom!
(not a gun link %-)

275 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:30:01am

re: #258 WrathofG-d

That is an EXCELLENT cut, Wrath!

Truly touching! Lyrics and music!

276 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:30:10am

re: #270 Pawn of the Oppressor

Um. Thanks, but my "when" was rhetorical.

277 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:30:59am

re: #269 RTLM

Is your wife willing/able to rack and shoot a 12 gauge? The light revolver/revolver ammo has more than one reason.

(in my circumstance)

mine's got the CHP retread 870 (2.75 only), and if that gets difficult, there's a 16 gauge in the toy box.....

(or we can think about an 1100..... sweet! %-)

278 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:31:48am

re: #269 RTLM

Is your wife willing/able to rack and shoot a 12 gauge? The light revolver/revolver ammo has more than one reason.

(in my circumstance)

It doesn't have to be a 12 gauge. Damn, I wish no2liberals was still here. He was the LGF shotgun expert, had the shells loaded in order.

/if you resisted past the rock salt and the bird shot, you would be facing the custom, gun show flechette shells, talk about painful

279 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:32:05am

re: #272 LeePro

Right.
And an anemic click of the slide NOT properly racked will tell the intruder ...what?

...that I can't handle my own gun!

I've never been sold on the slide-racking thing as a tactic. For one thing, it assumes you have time to react and that the aggressor has lost the element of surprise, which is not the way you should be planning for a criminal emergency. In my way of thinking, the first warning a criminal attacker will have is when he finds himself looking down the pipe of my defensive firearm. And at that point, if he doesn't quit what he's doing, it's too late for all parties involved anyway.

280 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:32:50am

re: #275 Karridine

Thank you. I am music surfing while I LGF, and found that one. Its great. I really like Moshav's "come back", tifila, & the only one

281 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:35:18am

re: #272 LeePro

Right.
And an anemic click of the slide NOT properly racked will tell the intruder ...what?

...that I can't handle my own gun!

/alarm systems are good, even bluffing with alarm company stickers on your points of entry works wonders

282 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:37:17am

re: #272 LeePro

Right.
And an anemic click of the slide NOT properly racked will tell the intruder ...what?

...that I can't handle my own gun!

tru dat........ which is why HRH has dry cycled the weapon many times, as well as using it at the range. a decent weapon, properly employed by a well trained user is better than the "perfect" weapon used improperly.

hence my (free) advice to you .............. bottom line is to stick with what w*rks for you, and ignore all the experts..... there is *no* substitute for good training & lots of practice. when the shit hits the fan, it's unlikely you will rise to some new level, but it's given that you will default to your lowest level of current training. it's always better to sweat than to bleed.

283 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:41:24am

re: #282 redc1c4

Am I missing the inside joke here? What do you have against the word work?

284 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:42:28am

re: #281 Killian Bundy

/alarm systems are good, even bluffing with alarm company stickers on your points of entry works wonders

Yeah...

Thought about putting my class-test target in window with dead-center grouping that earned my score of 99! ! !

...with my little 5-shot .38 Special

285 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:43:25am

re: #284 LeePro

Yeah...

Thought about putting my class-test target in window with dead-center grouping that earned my score of 99! ! !

...with my little 5-shot .38 Special

right above your NRA sticker. :)

286 RTLM  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:43:29am

We have a shotgun. But they are cumbersome, heavy and long for a midnight panic grab. Difficult to place in spots of high vulnerability (bed side). Small children double the difficulty.

A sturdy, locked night stand with a weapon that myself or the Mrs. can access with speed and effectivity is far and away the better solution.

(and of coarse the WHOOP WHOOP home alarm upon entry)

287 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:45:39am

re: #283 WrathofG-d

Am I missing the inside joke here? What do you have against the word work?

It's to avoid offending any leftists, to them work is a dirty word.

288 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:46:01am

re: #285 BlueCanuck

right above your NRA sticker. :)

LOL!
Yep! ! !

289 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:46:33am

re: #287 Neo Con since 9-11

oh that is very P.C. and nice of y'all. I'll w0rk to do the same.

290 LeePro  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:47:38am

It's late, gang! ¦O ya-a-a-w-w-w-n-n-n

Thanks for all the gun advice, everybody.

G'nite, {{Lizards}}

Somebody give these to LoL when she gets here? Really miss her... just can't stay up that long!

291 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:54:33am

Gotta reboot to my other partition. Back in a flash, with my stash...

292 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:55:22am

re: #278 Killian Bundy

It doesn't have to be a 12 gauge. Damn, I wish no2liberals was still here. He was the LGF shotgun expert, had the shells loaded in order.

/if you resisted past the rock salt and the bird shot, you would be facing the custom, gun show flechette shells, talk about painful

much to much effort...... i live in the big city, with neighbors inside the effective range. it's bird shot all the way, from round one. as for the fancy rounds, they would be fodder for the inevitable lawyers afterward. better to stick to the smallest bird shot you can find, on the grounds of "safety".

293 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:55:44am

re: #290 LeePro

Night {LeePro}. Have yourself a good sleep. I will give them to lol when she arrives.

294 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 12:56:18am

re: #290 LeePro

It's late, gang! ¦O ya-a-a-w-w-w-n-n-n

Thanks for all the gun advice, everybody.

G'nite, {Lizards}

Somebody give these to LoL when she gets here? Really miss her... just can't stay up that long!

nom, nom, nom, nom........... she can have the crumbs. %-)

295 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:00:20am

LGF, just make sure that you "don't give up"

where is everyone. I'm just getting started.

296 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:01:02am

re: #283 WrathofG-d

Am I missing the inside joke here? What do you have against the word work?

as a "drunken bastard" in piss poor standing i take great exception to public vulgarity, specifically words such as "w*rk" or "s*ber".....

it's part of my religion and i demand that you immediately change your way of life to accommodate it.

/

297 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:01:23am

re: #292 redc1c4

much to much effort...... i live in the big city, with neighbors inside the effective range. it's bird shot all the way, from round one. as for the fancy rounds, they would be fodder for the inevitable lawyers afterward. better to stick to the smallest bird shot you can find, on the grounds of "safety".


/trust me, Obama, all his horses and all his men, will not be able to relieve no2liberals of his weapons, won't get within a 1000 yards

298 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:02:19am

re: #295 WrathofG-d

LGF, just make sure that you "don't give up"

where is everyone. I'm just getting started.

they obviously taste tested tonight's fruit cup.....

/mods are us!

299 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:02:26am

re: #296 redc1c4

Keep'n LGF PG...i appreciate that. There is wayyy to many curse words around here these days.

keep up the good work.

300 eastvillageinfidel  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:03:43am

Goodnight LeePro

301 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:07:22am

re: #299 WrathofG-d

Keep'n LGF PG...i appreciate that. There is wayyy to many curse words around here these days.

keep up the good w*rk.

fixed that for ya!

/get with the program.... %-)

302 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:08:24am

re: #301 redc1c4

Yikes you are right. I go about congratulating the lack of curse words, then I go about and use one. Sheesh! Lashes for me.

So seriously, where is everyone?

303 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:10:11am

re: #302 WrathofG-d

Yikes you are right. I go about congratulating the lack of curse words, then I go about and use one. Sheesh! Lashes for me.

So seriously, where is everyone?

kidnapped by aliens?
run off by my acerbic wit and complete lack of people skills?
out in the kitchen getting another cold one?
downloading free pr0n from usenet?

the possibilities are endless.

304 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:10:11am

Still here, checking whats on the news wire feeds. So far it's pretty slow and what I have found has already been posted.

305 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:11:58am

re: #303 redc1c4

Well if it is 3 or 4 they need to learn to multi task.

I'm doing about 3 things right now.

306 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:12:31am

re: #304 BlueCanuck

Still here, checking whats on the news wire feeds. So far it's pretty slow and what I have found has already been posted.

if it's on the wire feeds, it's not news. the real news they suppress.

/

307 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:13:07am

re: #302 WrathofG-d

Yikes you are right. I go about congratulating the lack of curse words, then I go about and use one. Sheesh! Lashes for me.

So seriously, where is everyone?

I think we're all wr0king on getting drunk, at least I am.

308 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:13:18am

re: #306 redc1c4

True, but with our lizard skills we can read between the lines and get a better picture of what's happening.

309 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:14:07am

ok I am organizing my Ipod. What "genre" would yall call this? It is under Alternative & Punk, but it is neither. I am splitting the genres (as they have nothing to do with eachother) and now need to choose.

any suggestions?

310 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:14:27am

ooops PIMF

re: #309 WrathofG-d

ok I am organizing my Ipod. What "genre" would yall call this? It is under Alternative & Punk, but it is neither. I am splitting the genres (as they have nothing to do with eachother) and now need to choose.

any suggestions?

311 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:14:29am

re: #305 WrathofG-d

Well if it is 3 or 4 they need to learn to multi task.

I'm doing about 3 things right now.

as long as it's consensual......

/we're not asking: please don't tell. %-)

312 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:15:48am

ot from the messing around:

An "evil" Jewish Settlement

313 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:17:26am

re: #309 WrathofG-d

ok I am organizing my Ipod. What "genre" would yall call this? It is under Alternative & Punk, but it is neither. I am splitting the genres (as they have nothing to do with eachother) and now need to choose.

any suggestions?


is "k3wl as 5h1t!" an option?....... the local "indie" station plays their stuff on occasion... i love it! i just need to get to a show, without being the 'creapy old guy'......

314 rawmuse  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:18:33am

testing new avatar

315 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:19:04am

re: #313 redc1c4

Be the creepy old guy. I want to go too. Missed their show when they where here and am still kicking myself.

so seriously. Alternative or Punk or ________?

316 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:21:55am

re: #314 rawmuse

testing new avatar

/scary

317 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:22:08am

Wrath...
Just curious, why the downding on Comment #1, above?

318 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:23:05am

re: #316 Killian Bundy

/scary

/squinty

319 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:23:23am

re: #317 Karridine

Mistake.

320 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:24:56am

and what genre is Rage Against the Machine?

321 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:25:35am

re: #315 WrathofG-d

Be the creepy old guy. I want to go too. Missed their show when they where here and am still kicking myself.

so seriously. Alternative or Punk or ________?

definitely "Alt"........ *this* is punk...... NSFW, btw..... %-)

322 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:26:00am

re: #316 Killian Bundy

/scary

/squinty

/baked

323 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:26:37am

re: #320 WrathofG-d

and what genre is Rage Against the Machine?

boring? predictable? KosKiddy?

324 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:26:39am

re: #317 Karridine

re: #319 WrathofG-d

Went back and fixed.

325 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:27:34am

re: #319 WrathofG-d

Mistrake?

MISTRAKE?

dang

326 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:28:16am

re: #321 redc1c4

Yes that is punk. See what happened (as if you cared) is that I would be searching for my Pennywise, Nofx, etc., on my ipod and it would be under "alternative & punk". SO when I put it on random, it would go from Pennywise to Fiona Apple. This is just not cool when you are trying to hate the Government and everything else...you know what i mean?

So now I don't know if Gogol would be "punk", or "rock" or "alternative", as I don't think they are really any of those. Don't know where to put Rage against the Machine either but am leaning towards "Punk" I guess....as it would work better with the random/shuffle feature.

327 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:28:33am

re: #319 WrathofG-d

Mistake.

fixed it....

as did at least one other LNDT reg....... %-)

328 jcobble  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:28:55am

Earlier this evening, around 7 pm Pacific there was a story on Fox's web page about a clandestine mission to remove something like 97 tons of yellow cake from Iraq. Now it is gone and I find it no where else. Odd...

329 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:30:11am

AARGH!

Thanks, to all who updinged.

Now, the moral of the story: somebody earlier today posted about antacids (Rolaids) being implicated in back pain AND in de-calcification/de-mineralization of the bones, SO there was an Ironic Joke therein...

/that is all

330 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:31:05am

re: #323 redc1c4

boring? predictable? KosKiddy?

yea yea yea I know. I like rage though. I used to be a socialist and hate the Gov/Republicans etc. Was shocked when I actually looked into (G-d bless the Internet) what they were advocating. F***k'n a**holes!

But I still love the music.

For something a bit more....too my tastes these days....In the Beginning.... (just in case you didn't figure it out...its Genesis in song)

331 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:31:06am

re: #328 jcobble

Still have it on my yahoo feed.

332 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:31:13am

re: #326 WrathofG-d

Yes that is punk. See what happened (as if you cared) is that I would be searching for my Pennywise, Nofx, etc., on my ipod and it would be under "alternative & punk". SO when I put it on random, it would go from Pennywise to Fiona Apple. This is just not cool when you are trying to hate the Government and everything else...you know what i mean?

So now I don't know if Gogol would be "punk", or "rock" or "alternative", as I don't think they are really any of those. Don't know where to put Rage against the Machine either but am leaning towards "Punk" I guess....as it would work better with the random/shuffle feature.

it'd be better if you had more programing ability in the iPod..... write the patch and be a hero! then you could start wearing purple. %-)

i still say they are definitely "alt"..... too musical to be "punk".

333 rawmuse  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:32:50am

re: #316 Killian Bundy

mwahahahaha!

334 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:33:12am

now that I think about it...I'm just going to post this video/song (bereshit)the next time an I/d-Evilution thread comes around.

335 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:35:09am

re: #331 BlueCanuck

re: #328 jcobble

Still have it on my yahoo feed.

It's still up on CTV, also

336 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:36:44am

re: #330 WrathofG-d

yea yea yea I know. I like rage though. I used to be a socialist and hate the Gov/Republicans etc. Was shocked when I actually looked into (G-d bless the Internet) what they were advocating. F***k'n a**holes!

But I still love the music.

For something a bit more....too my tastes these days....In the Beginning.... (just in case you didn't figure it out...its Genesis in song)

i'll have to admit i've never knowingly heard one of their songs, so i should withhold judgment.....i just passed based on their politics, which is the same reason i didn't buy "Sandinista" when it came out, even though i'm a major Clash fan. i'll have to revisit them, just because.... even though they were the indirect cause of a riot here in LA just a few years back. the amusing part is, IIRC, all their band's equipment got trashed in the process.

/undoubtedly they had insurance, good Marxists that they are. %-)

337 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:38:28am

re: #328 jcobble

Earlier this evening, around 7 pm Pacific there was a story on Fox's web page about a clandestine mission to remove something like 97 tons of yellow cake from Iraq. Now it is gone and I find it no where else. Odd...

Report: Uranium Stockpile Removed From Iraq in Secret U.S. Mission

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.

What is now left is the final and complicated push to clean up the remaining radioactive debris at the former Tuwaitha nuclear complex about 12 miles (19 kilometers) south of Baghdad — using teams that include Iraqi experts recently trained in the Chernobyl fallout zone in Ukraine.

/has anyone told Joe Wilson and his CIA desk jockey wife yet?

338 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:40:00am

re: #333 rawmuse

mwahahahaha!

/don't forget squinty and baked

339 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:40:07am

re: #336 redc1c4

The anti-capitalists that sold their albums through a major label and distributor? those guys...Rage?....

The same guys that 4 out of 5 went and sold out completely with Audioslave?

Yea, I hate their politics but I really do just love the music. Truth is that the message is right on (aside from the politics) Know your enemy!

340 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:40:48am

re: #337 Killian Bundy

/has anyone told Joe Wilson and his CIA desk jockey wife yet?

Oh, yeah, they received a mimeographed memo two hours ago... FedEx

341 Mel Lono  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:43:38am

re: #336 redc1c4

Hey red.. how was the party? Did the BBQ at the sis's house with Jose at my side all day. Hope yours was good.

342 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:44:12am

re: #336 redc1c4

RATM .... Pure Energy.

Wake Up!

Take The Power Back (bad quality) --even as a new nothing band...you could feel the energy.
-studio version

343 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:44:15am

re: #339 WrathofG-d

The anti-capitalists that sold their albums through a major label and distributor? those guys...Rage?....

The same guys that 4 out of 5 went and sold out completely with Audioslave?

Yea, I hate their politics but I really do just love the music. Truth is that the message is right on (aside from the politics) Know your enemy!

as i said.... i'll give them a whirl one of these days.

right now the radio is playing an obscure "It's a Beautiful Day" song, so my head isn't into it.

/change!

344 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:45:24am

re: #343 redc1c4

Yea its a bit late for RATM. But now you have the 4 songs you "should" listen to. Wrath Recommends....if you will....

345 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:46:30am

Wrath, I changed partitions just now to access my RealPlayer FLV download...

Those Moshav FLV's are all worth the effort! I thank you again, for I do admire good vocal harmonies and acoustic music... handmade harmonic friendship & love... human to human, rippling out into the future...

You suggest any others, I sit up and take note, Wrath! :D

346 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:48:35am

re: #341 Mel Lono

Hey red.. how was the party? Did the BBQ at the sis's house with Jose at my side all day. Hope yours was good.

no real party.... just me & 2H6, and two refrigerators full of cold beverages. steak last night, ribs tonight, gawdd only knows tomorrow/today.

didn;t get out to Woodland Hills last weekend: it was mid-90's here, and we figured it would be at least mid 100's there. better the devil we knew, plus a pool and no crowds/traffic. %-)

347 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:48:58am

re: #345 Karridine

what is a FLV?

(i'm not tech savy if it is a tech thing)

You looking for more Moshav or more bands?

I really like Devendra Banhart. (against if you can get past his weirdo-ness and politics) At the Hop? (its a lot more folksy than Moshav though)

348 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:51:24am

re: #344 WrathofG-d

I know who Moshav remind me of... Seals & Crofts!

Adventurous time signatures, spiritual lyrics/themes, good harmonies and obvious enjoyment of their music!

349 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:51:45am

re: #345 Karridine

and if that doesn't suit you.....how about Cibelle: "London, London"

She also does a reallllly mellow cover of "Green Grass"

350 Mel Lono  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:52:30am

re: #346 redc1c4

no real party.... just me & 2H6, and two refrigerators full of cold beverages. steak last night, ribs tonight, gawdd only knows tomorrow/today.

didn;t get out to Woodland Hills last weekend: it was mid-90's here, and we figured it would be at least mid 100's there. better the devil we knew, plus a pool and no crowds/traffic. %-)

pretty much the same in Acton. Hot, pool, cold margs. The older kids went with one of the moms to Fillmore for fireworks. I didnt hear even a cracker it was so quiet.

351 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:53:21am

re: #313 redc1c4

is "k3wl as 5h1t!" an option?....... the local "indie" station plays their stuff on occasion... i love it! i just need to get to a show, without being the 'creapy old guy'......

redc1c4, do you have kids? I could rent you a 16 yr old. Seriously I go to death metal shows with my son to avoid the same thing.

352 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:53:26am

re: #323 redc1c4

boring? predictable? KosKiddy?

"Leftist caterwauling"

Though when you were 15 and hearing it for the first time ever, Rage was simply awesome.

I outgrew them years ago, and disavowed them totally when I found out about their politics, but I have fond memories of liking them.

353 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:54:17am

re: #347 WrathofG-d

FLV
is the streaming Flash Video format used at YouTube. Free FLV players are available for playing the download, I use RealPlayer for the download, but not for playing those little videos when I'm offline, Wrath.

Checking out "At the Hop" now

354 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:54:54am

re: #346 redc1c4

Ha! You actually DO live out here in LA. How funny. Seems we both missed the same Gogol show at the Ford.

355 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:55:21am

i get the neatest spam:
FROM THE CHEMBER BARRISTER HENG CHIN


Dear,

I am Heng Chin,an attorney at law.A deceased client of mine, who
herein after shall be referred to as my client, died as the result of a
heart-related condition on the 11 November 2001. His heart condition
was due to the death of all the members of his family in the Gulf Air
Flight Crashes in Persian Gulf Near Bahrain Aired August 23, 2000.

I have contacted you to assist in distributing the money left behind by
my client before it is confiscated or declared unserviceable by the
bank where this deposit valued at Seventeen million five hundred
thousand United States Dollars Only (US$18.5 M) is lodged. This bank
has issued me a notice to contact the next of kin, or the account will
be confiscated.
My proposition to you is to seek your consent to present you as the
next-of-kin and beneficiary of my named client, since you have the same
last name, so that the proceeds of this account can be paid to you.
Then we can share the amount on a mutually agreed-upon percentage. All
legal documents to back up your claim as my client's next-of-kin will
be provided.All I require is your honest cooperation to enable us see
this transaction through.
This will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect
you from many breach of the law. If this business proposition offends
your moral values,do accept my apology. I must use this opportunity to
implore you to exercise the utmost indulgence to keep this matter
extraordinary confidential, whatever your decision, while I await your
prompt response.Please contact me at once to indicate your interest. I
will like you to acknowledge the receipt of this e-mail as soon as
possible via my private and treat with absolute confidentiality and sincerity.
I look forward to your quick reply.

356 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:57:27am

re: #354 WrathofG-d

Ha! You actually DO live out here in LA. How funny. Seems we both missed the same Gogol show at the Ford.

Valley Dude, like totally......

/but not by birth, thank gawd. %-)

357 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:58:14am

re: #355 redc1c4

/they spell better than the Nigerians

358 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:58:20am

re: #356 redc1c4

You're a Valley Dude now? Even better. I was out in the Valley for the 4th. CBS Radford.

359 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 1:59:06am

re: #349 WrathofG-d

and if that doesn't suit you.....how about Cibelle: "London, London"

She also does a reallllly mellow cover of "Green Grass"

Green Grass and High Tides?

360 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:00:02am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet --------------------->
Help yourselves!

361 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:00:37am

Another Sunday morning at LGF. Time to eat! Please, no pushing and shoving as you line up for the buffet. There's plenty for everyone.

And of course, DESSERT!

Bon appetit!

362 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:01:18am

re: #358 WrathofG-d

You're a Valley Dude now? Even better. I was out in the Valley for the 4th. CBS Radford.

then you weren't that far from FOB DeDe.....

/maybe next time. %-)

363 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:02:20am

re: #362 redc1c4

then you weren't that far from FOB DeDe.....

/maybe next time. %-)

I have no idea what that means......

364 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:03:05am

re: #353 Karridine


FLV
is the streaming Flash Video format used at YouTube. Free FLV players are available for playing the download, I use RealPlayer for the download, but not for playing those little videos when I'm offline, Wrath.

Checking out "At the Hop" now

So? &?.............the verdict is?.........

365 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:06:09am

re: #360 littleoldlady

Morning littleoldlady. Thanks for the fruitcup and the most excellent spread of buffet.

366 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:06:49am

re: #363 WrathofG-d

FOB == Forward Operating Base. DeDe is probably something else.

367 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:06:49am

Am I going to kick LGF off its Conservative tracks if I link to Phish: Farmhouse?

368 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:08:52am

BlueCanuck! :-)

369 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:09:48am

re: #364 WrathofG-d

THAT's who he is?

I've seen that particular FLV before, and it was okay then... okay now... I find the listening pleasant enough, I'm just not comfortable with "The Message" he and his video director and editor are communicating in the Video...

Can't say WHAT that message IS, just not comfortable with it... despite the good vocals, Wrath

370 shanec99  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:09:49am

re: #148 Attaboid

The Osprey class MHCs were decommed a few years ago.

371 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:10:26am

Ok you hippies...get those doobies ready and lit PHISH: Back On The Trian

< / / / / / / >*

372 mardukhai  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:11:38am

Anybody notice that there weren't any threads today about Islamists, Jihadis, or terrorists of any stripe?

Not sure where we're going...

373 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:11:43am

re: #369 Karridine

Say what you will about Devendra...but he is/was dating Natalie Portman.

374 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:12:10am

re: #372 mardukhai

Its open season on creationists. ;)

375 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:12:10am

re: #361 littleoldlady

Another Sunday morning at LGF. Time to eat! Please, no pushing and shoving as you line up for the buffet. There's plenty for everyone.

And of course, DESSERT!

Bon appetit!

it all sounds wonderful, until you get to the head of the line and find out this is what you really have to choose from.....

more Tabasco, por favor. %-)

376 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:12:33am

re: #372 mardukhai

Probably a quite day on those fronts. Besides it was Saturday. We do need a break on occasion from the madness.

377 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:13:15am

re: #373 WrathofG-d

Say what you will about Devendra...but he is/was dating Natalie Portman.

Well, that's his misfortune, and I shall not hold it against him or fault him for it.

378 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:14:22am

re: #377 Karridine

what you got against Natalie?

379 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:14:25am

re: #363 WrathofG-d

I have no idea what that means......

if you were at the CBS studio (their name says it all) in Studio City, you weren't that far from my HOR...... prior planning could result in a lizard meet next time.

380 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:15:10am

re: #375 redc1c4

it all sounds wonderful, until you get to the head of the line and find out this is what you really have to choose from.....

more Tabasco, por favor. %-)

You poor bastard. This is what we got on the good days. The bad days was when they served up your crap. :)

/Someone in the CF learned the Napoleon maxim.

381 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:15:29am

re: #366 BlueCanuck

FOB == Forward Operating Base. DeDe is probably something else.

she's Household 6

382 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:15:45am

re: #379 redc1c4

You go drinking out there? I've been looking for some good bars and have found nothing. (I have some friends out there)

383 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:16:24am

re: #361 littleoldlady

Another Sunday morning at LGF. Time to eat! Please, no pushing and shoving as you line up for the buffet. There's plenty for everyone.

And of course, DESSERT!

Bon appetit!

Little Olde, you KNOW that in addition to being immoral, fattening and deadly, those foods are also probably criminally delicious!

There oughta be a law agin' you!

384 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:16:38am

re: #372 mardukhai

Anybody notice that there weren't any threads today about Islamists, Jihadis, or terrorists of any stripe?

Not sure where we're going...

War's over dude, we won. But, seriously, LGF is and always has been anti-idiotarian not just anti-jihad, you know that you've been here longer than I have.

385 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:19:47am

re: #375 redc1c4

You're in the army now.

/man that's a horrible, crappy song, but I couldn't find what I was looking for on youtube...

386 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:20:40am

re: #380 BlueCanuck

You poor bastard. This is what we got on the good days. The bad days was when they served up your crap. :)

/Someone in the CF learned the Napoleon maxim.

it can always be worse...... *this* is what i started out with......

/but then again, i *liked* the ham & eggs chopped. %-)

387 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:21:12am

re: #383 Karridine

Karridine! :-)

There oughta be a law agin' you!

There is. That's why I hardly ever go out in public.

/my story
//sticking to it... ;-)

388 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:22:44am

re: #384 rightwinger3

I appreciate that, RightWinger.

From the Story:

Despite recent gains, daily attacks continue throughout Iraq. Gunmen attacked a police patrol Saturday near Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, killing one policeman, police said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media.

I only append this because I recognize that there is little ANY national government can do against individual, committed terrorist attacks, but the Americans and Iraqis together have won against the militias and extremist thugs, and I applaud that!

389 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:23:14am

re: #383 Karridine

What ya think of these guys?
not Youtube

youtube (different song)

390 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:26:01am

re: #386 redc1c4

RedC, my work-trick and I got frozen in, Topside, on our mountain-top on the Korean DMZ... half a day later, when we finally got a land-line down to Base Camp, we requested permission to EAT some of the C-Rations stored Topside, and were DENIED PERMISSION, because "...those are for an EMERGENCY!"

/duh, why didn't us HUNGRY enlisted men think of that?

391 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:26:21am

re: #386 redc1c4

Well, I remember once when I was in cadets, we were issued the last of the same type of rations for the CF. After that it was IMPs till the end. Except that one horrible exercise they fed us MRE's.

392 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:26:47am

re: #389 WrathofG-d

Listening now, Wrath

393 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:26:59am

re: #385 littleoldlady

You're in the army now.

/man that's a horrible, crappy song, but I couldn't find what I was looking for on youtube...

Bad Harry Potter, 15 yards and loss of down.

Pictures Of Lily, preproduction

394 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:27:39am

Ok folks...i'm about to make like a baby and head out...but I leave you music lovers and crazy kids with the marvelous; Oi Va Voi: Refugee

395 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:28:12am

re: #382 WrathofG-d

You go drinking out there? I've been looking for some good bars and have found nothing. (I have some friends out there)

it's a pricey neighborhood and the menu prices reflect that, and most of the bars/nightclubs along Ventura tend to be rather "specific" (if you know what i mean %-)

i tend to hit up Trader Joes, take my purchases home, and hang in the back yard, watching the birds & squirrels.....until it gets dark.

then i watch the bug zapper and the tiki torches until it's time to come in and mess with the fruit cup.

/hopeless red neck %-)

396 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:28:31am

Wow! Unstoned, kosher reggae-blasters!

397 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:29:38am

re: #394 WrathofG-d

#396 was for YOU, Dewd!

Head out! Catch you on the rebound, Kiddo!

398 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:30:01am

re: #395 redc1c4

What you don't like Tin whatever Larry's (or whatever it is called?)

399 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:30:24am

re: #390 Karridine

RedC, my work-trick and I got frozen in, Topside, on our mountain-top on the Korean DMZ... half a day later, when we finally got a land-line down to Base Camp, we requested permission to EAT some of the C-Rations stored Topside, and were DENIED PERMISSION, because "...those are for an EMERGENCY!"

/duh, why didn't us HUNGRY enlisted men think of that?

you should have reported what you'd done...... not asked.

it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. %-)

400 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:30:56am

re: #393 Killian Bundy

MUCH better, Killian! :-)

401 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:31:36am

re: #399 redc1c4

Yeah, roger THAT!

Well, we lived... but it was still STOOPID on our ossifer's part!

402 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:31:42am

re: #390 Karridine

RedC, my work-trick and I got frozen in, Topside, on our mountain-top on the Korean DMZ... half a day later, when we finally got a land-line down to Base Camp, we requested permission to EAT some of the C-Rations stored Topside, and were DENIED PERMISSION, because "...those are for an EMERGENCY!"

/duh, why didn't us HUNGRY enlisted men think of that?

ROFL. I love stories like that. The brilliance of our leaders never ceases to amaze me, Karridine.

403 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:32:32am

re: #398 WrathofG-d

What you don't like Tin whatever Larry's (or whatever it is called?)

Oilcan Harry's? that's not my cuppa..... it's still a free country and more power to 'em, i say. Pinot Bistro has a nice bar, but it's not their main attraction.

404 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:33:04am

re: #396 Karridine

Yea if you get time....look them up. I couldn't find a quick good one for them but they are great. There is an even better band called Adama Kadmon (out of South Africa)

Now if I could just find a easy way to download their songs I'd be thrilled. (don't trust sno cap)

405 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:33:47am

This is what I was looking for.

OY. ;-)

406 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:35:07am

Uh-Oh

US concerned Israeli strike in Iran 'doomed to fail'

Sources in Pentagon tell UK's Sunday Telegraph meeting between Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, IDF chief left Americans worried Israel feels it has to attack Tehran, even if intelligence doesn’t indicate such strike would be successful

Israel is on her own once again.

407 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:35:30am

re: #402 rightwinger3

ROFL. I love stories like that. The brilliance of our leaders never ceases to amaze me, Karridine.

i learned early on to not ask many questions, and always report in *after* the fact...... the reflex of the not too bright is "NO!", but they can't recall the horse once it's out of the barn, saddled up and successfully ridden to first place in the race.

/of course, if you screw up....... %-)

408 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:36:02am

re: #402 rightwinger3

And the inventiveness, the principles and the courage of the Armed Order-Followers amazes and encourages me!

We get the job done, fighting the good fight, often IN SPITE OF our Fearless Leaders!

409 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:37:28am

re: #404 WrathofG-d

Wrath, use RealPlayer (Free Version) to download straight from YouTube!

Then you can play them at will, at your leisure!

410 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:38:01am

re: #390 Karridine

Happened to my reserve unit one time. Big exercise the whole London Militia District (all units from service to infantry) did a long weekend exercise which happened to be Thanksgiving weekend. The weather was perfect training weather, with all the nastiness that entails. We were sharing one ration pack per squad per meal if we were lucky. Rumours got around that a sargeant complained and an orficer said, "F*ck them, they'll get turkey on Monday when they get home". Well needless to say we were seething. But that doesn't end the story there. One of our buds was sidelined and was working the command post, where there where crates of rations stacking up. He was told those were the extras. When he got on the bus and found the rest of us cold, surly, hungry, and ready to kill, he wisely kept his mouth shut. Actually he kept it shut for almost two years. That's how pissed we were.

411 WrathofG-d  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:38:27am

re: #409 Karridine

Yea but that doesn't transfer to my ipod (I don't think).

412 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:38:28am

re: #407 redc1c4

Ah! the old "...But IF You Screw Up!" proviso... LMAO!

413 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:41:59am

re: #407 redc1c4

i learned early on to not ask many questions, and always report in *after* the fact...... the reflex of the not too bright is "NO!", but they can't recall the horse once it's out of the barn, saddled up and successfully ridden to first place in the race.

/of course, if you screw up....... %-)

Oh yes. The calls you must make as a young Lance Corporal...

414 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:42:28am

re: #411 WrathofG-d

Ah!

/that's YER prollem, Kiddo

415 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:44:37am

re: #411 WrathofG-d

Really like that Adama Kadmon, Wrath... fine little cut there, downloaded in its entirety!

/seriously, sorry I can't help on the iPawed problem

417 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:45:17am

re: #413 rightwinger3

But the great fall back is that you ARE a lance corporal. You just didn't know better because you don't have the training yet.

/sometimes it's best to play stupid. :)

418 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:45:39am

re: #401 Karridine

Yeah, roger THAT!

Well, we lived... but it was still STOOPID on our ossifer's part!

that's redundant.... %-)

"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

419 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:47:13am

re: #413 rightwinger3

Well, one of us DID screw up, sent a CritiCOM all the way from our mountain-top to the basement of the White House (circa 1967) and got court-martialed for his trouble...

THEN the USS Pueblo incident happened, and there were LOTS of Critical Communications...

420 littleoldlady  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:47:25am

re: #406 Neo Con since 9-11

Neo-Con! :-)

Y'know, if I ask my mother for an old family recipe she's happy to give it to me, but she always leaves out one key ingredient making me "doomed to failure".

/Jews! Nuh! ;-)

I'm having trouble picturing the IAF having a plan on paper that's doomed to failure. Things can happen in the execution, but going in with a bad plan? Doesn't sound like the Israelis to me.

421 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:48:04am

re: #417 BlueCanuck

But the great fall back is that you ARE a lance corporal. You just didn't know better because you don't have the training yet.

/sometimes it's best to play stupid. :)

I can't even count the times "Sir, the private didn't know" (and later "PFC" and "LCpl") came out of my mouth. Yes, those were great days...

422 rightwinger3  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:50:24am

re: #419 Karridine

Well, one of us DID screw up, sent a CritiCOM all the way from our mountain-top to the basement of the White House (circa 1967) and got court-martialed for his trouble...

THEN the USS Pueblo incident happened, and there were LOTS of Critical Communications...

Karridine, that sucks. "Flash, Flash, Flash...oops! Sorry, Mr. President, I'm just a PFC..."

423 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:51:45am

re: #410 BlueCanuck

Happened to my reserve unit one time. Big exercise the whole London Militia District (all units from service to infantry) did a long weekend exercise which happened to be Thanksgiving weekend. The weather was perfect training weather, with all the nastiness that entails. We were sharing one ration pack per squad per meal if we were lucky. Rumours got around that a sargeant complained and an orficer said, "F*ck them, they'll get turkey on Monday when they get home". Well needless to say we were seething. But that doesn't end the story there. One of our buds was sidelined and was working the command post, where there where crates of rations stacking up. He was told those were the extras. When he got on the bus and found the rest of us cold, surly, hungry, and ready to kill, he wisely kept his mouth shut. Actually he kept it shut for almost two years. That's how pissed we were.

the essential requirements for anything to be considered "good training" are as follows:
you have to be cold, wet, tired, hungry, pissed off and doing something stupid.

("hot & sweaty" can be substituted for "cold & wet". %-)

/me offers a toast to Glenn Dowdy, for first promulgating this axiom on AFM , years ago.

424 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:53:02am

It's kinda peaceful without all anti ID/creationism slugs lurking and spouting.

/I understand reality, the pretentious haranguing isn't cool

425 Karridine  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:54:03am

re: #422 rightwinger3

No, after THAT, he was a slick sleeve...

The good part was, "No Jail Time" because there was no goofing and malice...

But in our profession, we got NAILED if we so much as left a drawer open, Winger...

426 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:54:43am

re: #423 redc1c4

Like I said it was good training. It rained all weekend, and we had to dig trenches in clay. Needless to say we didn't have trenches we had swimming pools. It wasn't the weather or such that pissed us off, but the apparent callousness of said orficer.

427 BlueCanuck  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:56:00am

re: #424 Killian Bundy

I hear yah, and without any thread like that near to the last one of the night it is so much better with people to talk to.

428 redc1c4  Sun, Jul 6, 2008 2:56:07am