Never again

I'm sure feminist groups will be issuing a statement shortly condemning both arranged marriages and honor killings.

/

Acquitted, on the grounds of "justifiable cultural practice". Celebrate diversity! Next case.

/

Were the parents of the victim related to each other as cousins?

re: #2 Sharmuta

especially NOW

Deranged marriage.

No mention of the religion of the family.

I don't think it's fair to blame this on a collision of modern culture with Dark Ages customs.

It's simply the tribal, Dark Ages customs that are to blame.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

No mention of the religion of the family.

Of course not! Wouldn't want to be seen as possibly linking the religion with the practice of either arranged marriages or honor killings.

But they're Pakistani, so it doesn't take much to figure it out.

Another sad, unnecessary tragedy.....

[deleted] [deleted] [deleted].

Were they... Asian?

...can you imagine what will happen to that fool in prison?

apparently got mad

I'd say. It's always the anger thing. Why do I detect a pattern here. Strangling to death does not happen quickly either.

re: #8 me

I think the collision come from the victim living in a modern society most likely gave her the idea that she could seek a divorce. The West made her "uppity".

Women aren't safe from their own families in this death cult.
Where do they turn ? A shame that they probably feel there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Can't say a damn thing for fear of dying. Godawful mess.

I fail to see how how the killing of a innocent women protects the family honor. Fucking barbarians

I don't know which is making me crazier, the ROP or the SCOTUS.

Collision between a culture in which the highest good is controlling others, and a culture in which the highest good is controlling yourself.

i mentioned afew threads back that young moslem women who want to survive in this country are going to have to confront the hideous reality that their own fathers can and do become their worst enemies.
if these women refuse to go under the sack or marry a cousin etc., they need to have a plan to flee or face a life or death struggle w/ their OWN father.
that is incomprehensible to civilized people.
islam is evil. and it is spreading murder like this into the modern world.
we need to prosecute these killers w/ a vengeance.

Chaudhry Rashad pic from Fox 5 News - Atlanta.

None dare call it sexual slavery.

/Or "property rights", for that matter ...
/

those darn Catholics, at it again
/ sarcasm

re: #18 mojoazul

I don't know which is making me crazier, the ROP or the SCOTUS.

/or the 550 tons of yellowcake that's getting no attention

re: #22 ratherdashing

Chaudhry Rashad pic from Fox 5 News - Atlanta.

You can really see the love islam bestows shining in his face.

Sad. Just very sad.

Let's hope these honor killings don't distract Amnesty International from their righteous mission to close Gitmo

/

Chaudhry Rashad doesn't sound like a Muslim name.

re: #26 Sharmuta

You can really see the love islam bestows shining in his face.

Yep, it's like looking at the Dalai Lama, really.

re: #24 Duane

those darn Catholics, at it again
/ sarcasm

Minnesota Lutherans!

re: #22 ratherdashing

Chaudhry Rashad pic from Fox 5 News - Atlanta.

I'd hate for that to be the last thing I saw as I died.

re: #15 Sharmuta

I think the collision come from the victim living in a modern society most likely gave her the idea that she could seek a divorce. The West made her "uppity".

I agree that that's where the "collision" came from. But you can't blame the so-called collision for the decision to murder. That rests squarely on the sick sense of honor from the tribal, dark-ages "culture" that we dare not name.

Isn't it ironic that in mainline christian churches one of the three scripture readings for today is the story of the servant putting a ring in Rebekah's nose and taking her back to Abraham to be Isaac's wife.

Not told as a death story, but of following G-d's path & as a love story.

re: #29 MandyManners

Chaudhry Rashad doesn't sound like a Muslim name.

Neither did Adam Gadahn

"Things like that don't happen in this neighborhood," Hannah said.

Wanna bet, sonny? They can happen anywhere, and not just in a mostly Mohammedean neighborhood.

The guy had a seziure just afterwards? Pity. I wouldn't put it past him to claim this so the cops'd go easier on him (sympathy angle).

Throw him in jail, throw the book at him, and execute. Repeat as necessary, this behavior cannot be condoned in our society.

JAFLW

From the Fox News link...

Malik said arranged marriages are not uncommon for Pakistanis. He said the marriages are usually accepted and successful, although young people living in American might develop problems with them. "Their minds are changed when the live here due to this system," said Malik.

See, it's all our fault. It's OUR system that's the problem.

/sarc

"The truth is that the biggest enemy of Islam is the Muslims themselves, because they have relinquished all decency in dealing with others, as well as the courage to oppose oppression"

i read this today...here is the link within a link--

biggest enemy of Islam

memri- 6/6/2008

(ironbill daydreams while at the computer)

As we write feminists organizations throughout the United States are mobilizing their collective resources in an effort to end this savagery and seek the humane treatment of all women regardless of ethnicity or culture.

Paging NOW. Paging Maureen Dowd. Paging...

Ah, forget it.

re: #5 winston06

especially NOW

Yea right...

Boy, the Pakis are really opening up the lead in these "honor killings", aren't they?

From the news video clip.

~ Clayton County police didn't have any previous calls at the address.
~ neighbor man says they were a "traditional" Muslim family
~ Daughter was seen outside sometimes wearing the Muslim "gear"
~ Mr. Rashad had some type of "seizure" while being taken into custody
~ He admitted to killing for honor at the police station

re: #41 Shay4l

Paging NOW. Paging Maureen Dowd. Paging...

Ah, forget it.

Oh, they'll come when they figure out arranged marriages aren't Pro-Choice.

/Ducks like a mutha

re: #16 SasquatchOnSteroids

Women aren't safe from their own families in this death cult.
Where do they turn ? A shame that they probably feel there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Can't say a damn thing for fear of dying. Godawful mess.

Battered women's shelters are one option, but there have been reports of battered women's shelters in Britain being compromised by [guess] police officers. Presumably this is done out of a sense of a higher duty than protection of the endangered women.

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Neither did Adam Gadahn

True.

re: #13 WindHorse

Not much, most inmates are belong to NOI.

re: #22 ratherdashing

Police said the father was angry because he felt his daughter was disgracing the family.

"He felt". It's all about him, his feelings were offended, his feelings were hurt, his pride, his 'honor', his disgrace. So she had to die.

What a disgusting, worthless excuse for a man. And his culture and religion tells him that it's OK to do this. I don't know if he can see it from here, but I'm showing him the bottom of my shoe.

/spit

Speaking as a native Georgian die-hard Bulldawg...folks, if it can happen down here, it can happen in YOUR neighborhood.

is the moslem community going to organize a march to protest this murder?
and try to find a way to protect their daughters?
or will they remain silent like they do so well?

re: #26 Sharmuta

You can really see the love islam bestows shining in his face.

And his jihad inner struggle...

We need more of this diversity. Fathers in a decent society do not do this to your child especially a daughter. But we keep letting them in because of some social goal. I don't get it.
.

re: #45 SasquatchOnSteroids

Oh, they'll come when they figure out arranged marriages aren't Pro-Choice.

/Ducks like a mutha

Apparently, they're not pro-life either, if you could ask the victim.

re: #16 SasquatchOnSteroids

Women aren't safe from their own families in this death cult.
Where do they turn ? A shame that they probably feel there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Can't say a damn thing for fear of dying. Godawful mess.

They'd likely have a great deal of help/resources if some of these "Women's Rights" groups and "Feminist Organizations" got off their collective asses and acted like they actually gave a damn about women in general, rather than just politics.

re: #51 nyc redneck

is the moslem community going to organize a march to protest this murder?
and try to find a way to protect their daughters?
or will they remain silent like they do so well?

Hell, they're most likely establishing a defense fund for the son of a bitch.

re: #54 Shay4l

Excellent point.

Both Rashad and Kanwal are of Pakistani descent.

Why the F**k are we letting dirtbags like this into our country?

re: #22 ratherdashing

Chaudhry Rashad pic from Fox 5 News - Atlanta.

That is the face of evil!

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hell, they're most likely establishing a defense an escape fund for the son of a bitch.

There, fixed that for ya!

...now calm down everyone. There has to be more to this story... We don't want to offend anyone with our uninformed conjecture, do we? The poor man had a seizure after all.... She was 25.... probably struggled with him.... Hell, she probably started it - yeah, what about self-defense here...come on, cut the guy some slack.

/progressive off

re: #37 just another four-letter word

Wanna bet, sonny? They can happen anywhere, and not just in a mostly Mohammedean neighborhood.

The guy had a seziure just afterwards? Pity. I wouldn't put it past him to claim this so the cops'd go easier on him (sympathy angle).

Throw him in jail, throw the book at him, and execute. Repeat as necessary, this behavior cannot be condoned in our society.

JAFLW

I bet he's gonna' go for an insanity defense.

I went to a speech given by Ayaan Hirsi Ali a few months ago
back in Dallas. She pointed out that 15 miles away from where
we were(downtown) , a man killed his 2 daughters because
he did not approve of their boyfriends. She said the problem is
tribal/family honor above all else , especially individual rights.

re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth

They'd likely have a great deal of help/resources if some of these "Women's Rights" groups and "Feminist Organizations" got off their collective asses and acted like they actually gave a damn about women in general, rather than just politics.

The so-called feminist groups sold their fellow women out long ago when they decided to focus on their leftist, marxist agendas rather than empowering women through self-determination.

It's been said before, but this shows why we fight. I go to work every day so I can give my daughters the world.

hirsi ali in her book, 'infidel' said something like:

islam will always be a stone age religion until men stop defining their honor based on what happens btw their daughter's legs.

re: #49 gop_patriot

"He felt". It's all about him, his feelings were offended, his feelings were hurt, his pride, his 'honor', his disgrace. So she had to die.

What a disgusting, worthless excuse for a man.

And that's being charitable.

Neal Boortz believes that capital punishment for convicted murderers should be carried out in the same manner in which the murderer killed the victim(s). I tend to agree.

This is a perfect example. Except a woman should do it.

At the end of the article, a neighbour is quoted as saying:

"Things like that don't happen in this neighborhood."

We could all say:

"Things like that didn't used to happen in our country."

They're here, though, so the best we can do is offer taxpayer-funded support services to help those who want to get out of such marriages and families and punish the perpetrators to the full extent of the law. More money out of taxpayers' pockets. But what can we do? They are here, after all, and most are citizens, and we should all be free from tyranny here in North America.

I am so sad for that poor girl.

This guy should be executed quick before he becomes part of a prisoner swap with Hezbollah.

We need to send a message. Commit an "honor killing" and you are humanely executed, and your remains are fed to pigs. Who would protest?

Heh.

This is a piece with the Dubai thread. How can anyone hate a girl so much? I would bury them in pig shit.

re: #21 nyc redneck

if these women refuse to go under the sack or marry a cousin etc., they need to have a plan to flee or face a life or death struggle w/ their OWN father.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali wrote about this in her first book called The Caged Virgin. She wrote a letter to muslim girls in the Netherlands about how to plan their escape, and I wish I could find it online. It would be a terrific resource for muslim girls everywhere who might be looking to empower themselves.

re: #25 Killian Bundy

Killgore provided why it's a dud - another vintage situation where it was already accounted for so it "doesn't count."

re: #61 WindHorse

...now calm down everyone. There has to be more to this story... We don't want to offend anyone with our uninformed conjecture, do we? The poor man had a seizure after all.... She was 25.... probably struggled with him.... Hell, she probably started it - yeah, what about self-defense here...come on, cut the guy some slack.

/progressive off

Wait, wait! It is more than that. Yeah, it was a religious imperative. Yeah thats it. Sure, this is what Mohammad would have done, Hey who are we Yankee dogs to judge him. Let him go & award some pain & suffering money.

re: #64 Sharmuta

Sad, true, and from this guy's perspective, mind-numbingly frustrating.

re: #66 nyc redneck

hirsi ali in her book, 'infidel' said something like:

islam will always be a stone age religion until men stop defining their honor based on what happens btw their daughter's legs.

Absolutely right; However, if you just happen to be cleaning your gun when your daughter's boyfriend comes over to pick her up, well so be it.

re: #62 MandyManners

I bet he's gonna' go for an insanity defense.

From the video in the television news report, Pakistani-American Community of Atlanta spokesman Shahid Malik says the father had a some kind of "mental problem".

umm yeah.

What I Didn't Find in Africa
by Joseph C. Wilson 4th

Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.

/whoopsies

re: #74 MacGregor link

Repulsive.

Let me get this straight.....

1) Muslim Father sells his baby girl for money to an older guy.

2) daughter wants out from the creepy marriage.

3) Pervert ex-husband demands money back from the Pimp Father.

4) Father kills daughter.

re: #69 WindHorse

I am so sad for that poor girl.

imagine the tension in the home and the fear in these young women.
it never occurred to me that my father would KILL me, ( for any reason whatsoever. )
father's just don't kill their daughters, unless their brains are infected w/ a disease. islam
we can't have these animals living amongst us.

re: #82 Maximu§

Let me get this straight.....

1) Muslim Father sells his baby girl for money to an older guy.

2) daughter wants out from the creepy marriage.

3) Pervert ex-husband demands money back from the Pimp Father.

4) Father kills daughter.

And you thought dealing with car salesmen was slimy?

This is the land of the free and the home of the brave and I do not want this stuff in my country.

We are dealing with 6th Century primatives. We should not be surprised that they can not function in modern society. Yet our government ignores this & opens the door for more.

re: #74 MacGregor

Killgore provided why it's a dud - another vintage situation where it was already accounted for so it "doesn't count."

550 tons of concentrated uranium in Iraq.

/doesn't count, right

re: #84 Nevergiveup

And you thought dealing with car salesmen was slimy?

You can walk away from a car salesman.

re: #85 Ojoe

This is the land of the free and the home of the brave and I do not want this stuff in my country.

I do not want this stuff in my world...

re: #87 Killian Bundy

infrikkincredible.

re: #63 NonNativeTexan

I went to a speech given by Ayaan Hirsi Ali a few months ago
back in Dallas. She pointed out that 15 miles away from where
we were(downtown) , a man killed his 2 daughters because
he did not approve of their boyfriends. She said the problem is
tribal/family honor above all else , especially individual rights.

yep. Here are the girls Facebook photos.

Amina and Sarah Said

re: #83 nyc redneck

I couldn't agree more.... whatever happened to the sanctity of family... the sanctity of love between parent and child..... this is so far removed from everything we have all been raised to believe in.... so far removed from everything decent.... honestly, this sort of animalistic bullshit raises my ire like nothing else.... I stop now.

re: #35 slokat

Where do you get your list of Scripture readings? My pastors never followed someone else's list.

What kind of church are you talking about? Have you ever actually heard a sermon about this?

I have never heard a sermon on that topic and I've spent a lot of time in church.

re: #67 christheprofessor

Unless the man raped and killed the victim.

Of course, that's what strap-ons are for...

re: #89 christheprofessor

Starting here, then enlarging the boundaries, is a good plan.

re: #43 Cartman

Boy, the Pakis are really opening up the lead in these "honor killings", aren't they?

Some are trying to stop it in Pakistan.

PESHAWAR • Pakistan's last government had introduced three laws for safeguarding the rights of women and aimed at curbing the practice of honour killing and inhuman customs of swara and vani (giving away small girls to settle family disputes), allowing bail to women in most of the offences and amending the Offence of Zina (Enforcement of Hudood) Ordinance so as to stop its misuse.

While the women in rest of the country could avail the benefits provided under these laws, the women in Provincially Administered Tribal Areas (Pata) adjacent to the North West Frontier Province and the North have still been deprived of these benefits as these laws have not been extended there under the constitution.

SNIP

re: #62 MandyManners

I bet he's gonna' go for an insanity defense.

It's not a bet if it's a sure thing.

JAFLW

OK Everyone -

1. The State of Georgia HAS the Death Penalty, and has "executed" it about 40 times since 1976.

2. Were I the County Prosecutor, I would be seeking it in this case.

3. I WOULD accept a Guilty Plea for Life Imprisonment WITHOUT PAROLE, and on no other basis.

4. I would fight any defense of Insanity on the basis that ISLAM does not equal INSANITY - Temporary or Otherwise.

-S-

I could say more but won't at this point!

re: #32 The Other Les

Old Believer Russian Orthodox, at it again!

re: #77 Nevergiveup

Absolutely right; However, if you just happen to be cleaning your gun when your daughter's boyfriend comes over to pick her up, well so be it.

Defending your daughter from sleazeballs & predators, protecting her , is NOT the same as defending your own honor. The first is about her, the second is all about you.

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

This is why we need Sharia courts in America so this poor man won't be subjected to culturally insensitive , racist Western justice

/CAIR

re: #71 Racer X

We need to send a message. Commit an "honor killing" and you are humanely executed, and your remains are fed to pigs. Who would protest?

Heh.

Fixed it.

Clayton county has enough issues with education, to make up for the rest of the nation. They will lose educational accreditation within months, the fallout will be a mass exodus and dirt cheap property!

re: #78 ratherdashing

From the video in the television news report, Pakistani-American Community of Atlanta spokesman Shahid Malik says the father had a some kind of "mental problem".

umm yeah.

Isn't the "mental problem" called Islam?

JAFLW

re: #96 MandyManners

By "the last government" they meant Musharraf's?

Feminism weighs in ...

“All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.” ~ Catharine MacKinnon

/somehow, i don't think this situation is what Catharine had in mind ...

I wonder how many more young women and girls will have to suffer before the feminist groups wake up.

Will CAIR, America's largest Muslim Civil rights organization ( spit ) play an active role in the prosecution of this man, since he violated his daughters civil rights ?

/

re: #95 Ojoe

Starting here, then enlarging the boundaries, is a good plan.

Reinstating it here, I think, is more like it.

Granted, we (like all societies) had our screwballs, but I can't think of a group in American history that countenanced fathers killing daughters in the name of honor (or anything else, for that matter)...

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Welcome to the world of privilege, if so.

re: #94 laZardo

A year in prison first should cover it...

re: #110 Shug

Will CAIR, America's largest Muslim Civil rights organization ( spit ) play an active role in the prosecution of this man, since he violated his daughters civil rights ?

/

How 'bout the ACLU ?

//

re: #79 Killian Bundy

"K-B" -

Seems like Coalition Troops DID find it. Thankfully, the STUFF will be turned into Nuclear Reactor fuel in/for CANADA. The only BAD is on "US," like the US, that the STUFF will not be recycled and used "SOUTH of the BORDER."

-S-

re: #109 Sharmuta

They will never wake up.

But no matter, we have these gals
first all female C-130 combat crew

re: #51 nyc redneck

The Muslim world thinks this is the right thing to do. Pakistan is a putrid shithole of a country whose biggest export is misogynistic barbarity and jihadism. This happens all over the Muslim world and nobody cares. The 'honour' of these primitive barbarians is tied up in the sexual and general imprisonment of their women-who are less valued than animals. This will continue to happen in Western nations even if these satanic 'fathers' get the death penalty that they so deserve. These people, these supposed 'parents' go by Allah's rules-these rules supercede the gift of life they bestowed upon their own children. It's hard to find enough words to express my contempt, and I will continue to thank G-d every day for not being born a Muslim.

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

Obviously the Milk of Human Kindness is NOT on the menu with these "people", otherwise they would think of themselves last.

JAFLW

re: #89 christheprofessor

I do not want this stuff in my world...

ALL visa applications to ALL Pakistani's should be put on hold until we get this "Sharia" thing figured out.

re: #116 Ojoe

It would be nice if this group took a more vocal tone concerning this issue.

re: #82 Maximu§

Yeah, that's about it.

re: #106 Arkay

Every time I think we need to nuke Mecca, I remember my Jefferson: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."

I suspect Jefferson had slavery in mind -- and he trembled for himself...

/not to diminish your point

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

I can't fathom the thought of harming my daughters never mind killing them. What kind of sick religion allows this barbaric act against children?

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

I couldn't imagine hurting my daughter. In our society a good father daughter bond is somewhat difficult but a most rewarding life experience.

re: #115 Dr. Shalit

"K-B" -

Seems like Coalition Troops DID find it. Thankfully, the STUFF will be turned into Nuclear Reactor fuel in/for CANADA. The only BAD is on "US," like the US, that the STUFF will not be recycled and used "SOUTH of the BORDER."

-S-

But hey, it's old, been there since before the first Gulf war. Nothing to see here, move along.

/nevermind that the quantity is 550 tons, as in 2000 pound units

re: #29 MandyManners

Chaudhry Rashad doesn't sound like a Muslim name.

It is. The former Bobby Bell, wide receiver for the Minnesota Vikings, converted to islam 20+ years ago. He's now a well-known NBC sports anchor known as Ahmad Rashad, and is married to Bill Cosby's TV wife from the Cosby Show, Phylicia Rashad...

re: #109 Sharmuta

I wonder how many more young women and girls will have to suffer before the feminist groups wake up.

One would be too many.

This thread has much in common with the earlier Dubai thread. We, that is, our culture, cannot comprehend a culture in which such things as slavery and honor killings are commonplace. Our reaction here is outrage and a sense of helplessness. What is to be done?

We can begin at home.

The greatest lie in this century is that of multiculturalism: the notion that all cultures have equal moral merit, and therefore we are not to judge. That this lie is believed by so many is bad enough. That it is being taught to our children is a crime. It must be stopped if Western civilization is to survive.

And the reason why no Muslim group will denounce this is the same reason why they won't call Hamas a terrorist organization-even among those lying taqiya-heads, they can't lie about how they feel about these things.

re: #96 MandyManners

Good find.

re: #123 NJDhockeyfan

I can't fathom the thought of harming my daughters never mind killing them. What kind of sick religion allowsencourages this barbaric act against children?

Fixed it.

re: #86 opnion

We are dealing with 6th Century primatives. We should not be surprised that they can not function in modern society. Yet our government ignores this & opens the door for more.

Well, I guess we're desperate for immigrants. I mean, it's not as if people in the Western Hemisphere are breaking down the doors to get in here, right?

/

We can't discriminate against people because their culture is "different." To say that Islam is not compatible w/ our civilization is worse than murder in the eyes of the left. I'm serious. It's worse than murder........certainly worse than killing a cop.

hey-hey-ho-ho-western-civ-has-got-to-go

re: #127 Bob in Breckenridge

I wonder where Ahmad lands on this debate....

This story is also a great example of why the UK's decision for Sharia courts is disastrous. If Kanwal had access to sharia courts would she still be alive? No.

Rest in Peace Sandela Kanwal...

re: #44 ratherdashing

From the news video clip.

~ Clayton County police didn't have any previous calls at the address.
~ neighbor man says they were a "traditional" Muslim family
~ Daughter was seen outside sometimes wearing the Muslim "gear"
~ Mr. Rashad had some type of "seizure" while being taken into custody
~ He admitted to killing for honor at the police station

I cannot find that link.

re: #116 Ojoe

Ojoe -

Love it, the US has "All-Female" (Whaddabout Maintenance?) C-130 crews.

They have Hijabs and Burquas.

Take it from there.

-S-

re: #92 WindHorse

Animals don't sacrifice their young.

Animals resist death and fight it.

re: #78 ratherdashing

Don't they always?

re: #126 Killian Bundy

"K-B"

Those are "Metric Tonnes" - about 2200 US Pounds per "Tonne."

-S-

re: #136 WindHorse

It's a shame that her life here in America ended this way. It's a shame that she didn't have the freedom that the rest of us have.

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

It's apparently very easy for those who worship the Koran.

The word "morality" is derived from a Latin word that means manner, character, proper behavior. In typical usage in our language, it means an authoritative code of conduct in matters of

right

and

wrong.

On a thread yesterday, somebody was trying to argue that in Muslim countries, there is indeed a "morality", it is simply defined differently from how the we define it.

I guess one could argue that the Islamic "code" that holds that women and non-Muslims are not required to be treated with dignity and respect is indeed their "moral" code. But the behavior of these people is not moral in any sense of what is the right and decent way to live.

re: #139 WriterMom

semantics..... you know what I meant.

re: #131 Cartman

Good find.

Thanks. It's on my list of links for my up-coming blog about the repression of women by Islam. (I'm still working on it. The technical stuff has thrown me for a loop but I was wrong thinking I'd have more time this summer with The Kid out of school not having to drive two hours a day to school. I'm working on it. I am.)

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

"buzz" -

Take a guess - and then DUCK from the PC Police.

-S-

re: #145 WindHorse

Indeed.

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

Is the hijab for modesty, or is it an E-Z Strangulation aid?

Damn.

re: #135 Killgore Trout

This story is also a great example of why the UK's decision for Sharia courts is disastrous. If Kanwal had access to sharia courts would she still be alive? No.

I was thinking this myself. A shari'a court would not have helped this young woman. A shari'a contract would not have helped this woman. And I am reminded of that entire thread, and a certain "devil's advocate" who seemed to think that laws against murder would somehow help these women. American laws against murder certainly didn't help Sandela.

re: #83 nyc redneck

I'd like to agree with you, but that isn't true. Islam seems to make it easier, and give the left some way to excuse it ("It's their culture!"), but fathers have killed their daughters who weren't muslims, and didn't have tribal honor to uphold.

re: #143 Killgore Trout

It's a shame that her life here in America ended this way. It's a shame that she didn't have the freedom that the rest of us have.

She had it. She just didn't know it.

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

You just hafta squeeze harder than you do with a man ... smaller neck.

//////

re: #125 buzzsawmonkey

I hope I never have to test this in real life, but I do remember a comment by Dashiell Hammett in one of his stories: "Nobody can strangle someone with his two hands if the other person remembers that a hand is stronger than a finger."

In other words, if the hands of the person being strangled are free and the other person's two hands are around that person's neck, the stranglee should use his free hands to break as many of the strangler's fingers as he can with his free hands.

As I say, I hope I never have to try this out in real life. But I've always remembered it against the possibility.

Had to use that in High School. Broke three of the guys fingers before he let go. He was seriously stoned. Bad drug day.

re: #137 MandyManners

I cannot find that link.

Oops. Sorry. That was my recap of the video located here.

/ nite all. I'm gonna pray that this young lady passes directly into the presence and glory of our Lord.

re: #144 reine.de.tout

That's exactly why i argue that theists should rethink their concept of morality. Understanding where morals actually come from is very important. Hint: it's not from scripture. Another hint: Atheists have morals too.

re: #132 Occasional Reader

Encourages, sanctifies.

re: #143 Killgore Trout

It is a shame..... I am so fucking angry right now I could spit..... This should never have happened here, or anywhere....

@ 2
Shatmuta

We all jnow the feminazi groups need to be much more concerned about a woman's right to a late term abortion and the right of the abortionists to sink an icepick into the skull of that living viable "fetus" Move along now nothing to see with an honor killing just a father daughter dispute!

re: #134 Macker

I wonder where Ahmad lands on this debate....

I'd hope he has the humanity in his soul, despite the conversion to the gutter religion of these 7th century savages, that the 99.9% of us Americans have, and would call this an act of shear evil and barbarism.

re: #150 Sharmuta

I was thinking this myself. A shari'a court would not have helped this young woman. A shari'a contract would not have helped this woman. And I am reminded of that entire thread, and a certain "devil's advocate" who seemed to think that laws against murder would somehow help these women. American laws against murder certainly didn't help Sandela.

Nor did the help those two young girls in Texas - Amina and Sarah Said.

re: #91 ratherdashing

yep. Here are the girls Facebook photos.

Amina and Sarah Said

Related: American Girls

re: #160 Bob in Breckenridge

I'd hope he has the humanity in his soul, despite the conversion to the gutter religion of these 7th century savages, that the 99.9% of us Americans have, and would call this an act of shear evil and barbarism.

PIMF- Sheer, not shear.

How sick is this culture:

Kanwal lived with her father when she was not with her husband, who resides in Chicago, Owens said. She hadn't seen the husband in three months, he said.

Of course. When things are going bad in our lives, we automatically run to the people who love us unconditionally; the people who gave us life. This woman thought she was safe!

re: #153 RedPepper

Dude...

I hope this maggot is eligible for the death penalty.

re: #156 Killgore Trout

That's exactly why i argue that theists should rethink their concept of morality. Understanding where morals actually come from is very important. Hint: it's not from scripture. Another hint: Atheists have morals too.

Killgore - Can't I just admit and concede that I believe atheists have morals, too, and then hang on to my faith as my moral compass instead of rethinking it?

re: #93 Josephine

I said "mainline" because there are three lists of scripture 'for the day' used in Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. etc. (more hierarchal structured churches) & they are rotated through every three years - but not all Christian churches use this cyclical reading structure.

And, yes our pastor preached on it today, as a contrast to last weeks lesson of the test involving Abraham & Isaac and a burnt offering. Last week's sermon was a G-d that we find hard to like, this week's sermon is the G-d that is easy to like.

She tied her two sermon's together in the Hebrew teaching that there is only one G-d, not a myriad. Learning to live as if there is one G-d, testing/giving, stern/loving is hard, but ultimately freeing...

And, it is not the same as In'shallah (or however it's spelled).

re: #144 reine.de.tout

I've always believed that morality is properly defined in terms of rights. It is moral to do as I choose, as long as I don't interfere with another's rights, or don't (demonstrably) expose others to danger.

Murder is not wrong because of a Judeo-Christian ethic (though its being immoral coincides with it) -- it is immoral and wrong, rather, because it is the ultimate violation of the victim's rights -- the right to life.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

No mention of the religion of the family.

I wrote the two journalists who wrote the piece to ask about the mother of the victim. Just curious if there even is a living mother and if so, where the Hell was she? Also asked about the husband, wondering if he knows his wife has been killed.

I didn't insinuate anything with my letter but I have some sneaking suspicions about all of this. I think that this might be a multiple spouse issue, I also think that there is something very strange about all of the extra people living in the home.

re: #165 David Simon

When things are going bad in our lives, we automatically run to the people who love us unconditionally; the people who gave us life. This woman thought she was safe!

Yup, it's the ultimate betrayal.

re: #122 christheprofessor

I suspect Jefferson had slavery in mind -- and he trembled for himself...

/not to diminish your point

As well he should have!

To be fair, he was so deeply in debt that he couldn't have freed his slaves if he wanted to. But I see no evidence that he actually wanted to, aside from some posturing.

re: #117 WriterMom

i too thank god i wasn't born a moslem.
i'm hoping that as more of these young women experience the freedom our society offers them, they will find a way to defect. and more and more of them will get further and further away from the hideous rop, which is no fun and in fact, deadly.
many of these girls are not staying w/ islam because they want to.

re: #165 David Simon

One of the most horifying "honour" murders I ever read about was in Israel where a mother murdered her daughter-she disgraced the family by becoming pregnant by one of her two brothers that had each raped her.

Woe unto those who strive in the way of Muhammad.

re: #156 Killgore Trout

I personally believe that there is no such definite thing as morality. There is, however, such a thing as "society," and that within that society, we have to do as the proverbial Romans do in order to survive unless we are naturally abhorred by that society.

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

I hope this maggot is eligible for the death penalty.

/yep

# 22
Rather Dashing

By the picture of the house I would wager a 99% safe bet that the bastard father was living in public housing! Seems Georgia taxpayers may be subsidizing murdering immigrant ROP 'fathers" maintaining family honor.

re: #144 reine.de.tout

#177 was also intended to you as well. >__>

re: #168 reine.de.tout

You can but I think it's better to understand where morality actually comes from. I don't think it comes from faith or religion. It comes from humanism.

re: #78 ratherdashing

I just shot something to you.

re: #13 WindHorse

...can you imagine what will happen to that fool in prison?

A last meal, a walk down the last mile, and lethal injection...Dead Man Walking...

Let's see...Dubai slavery...honour killings...abuse of women...what is the common thread?

Having a hard time connecting the dots...

/NOW-Codepink mode off

Interesting- 4 of the 6 C-130 gals are packing heat!

re: #184 Reno911

Easy, it's Islamophobia as naturally found on right-wing hate sites like these.

/CAIR mode off

re: #173 Dianna

As well he should have!

To be fair, he was so deeply in debt that he couldn't have freed his slaves if he wanted to. But I see no evidence that he actually wanted to, aside from some posturing.

The cognitive dissonance must have been crippling.

Still, no excuse. How can one father a child and essentially ignore her?

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Disagree with you.

re: #156 Killgore Trout
Hey Killgore - How do we ply atheism away from being a contemporary pillar of socialism? Maybe a set of atheist commandments?

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you wrap your hands around your daughter's neck and strangle her?

Just how?

Pig.

That is why as a father I cannot look at that man and consider him to be a fellow human being.

I realize that this is my bias, my prejudice, my judgment... if I'm wrong, fine.

I will gladly be wrong for all the rest of my life

And if someone had said something sideways about this mans' religion, he would be crying about how his rights had been violated, oh, the injustice of the Islamophobic US.
No thought that his own daughter has the same exact rights in this country. Her rights are superceded by that *SPIT* book. There's nothing honorable about this religion. The more you know, the more you see we can't keep going down this road, allowing this 660's mentality in 2008. When will it be too much ?

re: #175 WriterMom

Yeah, I remember that. The mother bought a new razor to kill her daughter.

re: #168 reine.de.tout

Christians have it lucky, Jesus just happened to be one of the few religious figures who actually had loads of positive attributes that even godless heathens like me can appreciate. Usually when Christians are running amok in the world it has to do with them not following the teachings of the one they say is the son of god.

re: #156 Killgore Trout

Understanding where morals actually come from is very important. Hint: it's not from scripture.

How the hell would you know?

/pardon me if ignore your opinions on the value of biblical scripture

How can they do this? Simple, they worship death. They view life as a meaningless interlude imposed at the whim of an unloving and capricious god. We worship life. Because of that we view this world, even when we disagree about religion, as precious and wonderful and life as glorious. Therefore we focus on this world and doing both good and well in it. We make things better. That applies to people of many faiths and those of no faith. Even a sincere Communist could fit in our system, if such a person existed. Because of our love of and attachment to this world and the life in it the Islamists think us weak and contemptible. They are wrong. The worship of darkness has always been a weakness that distracts humanity but it always fails.

re: #181 Killgore Trout

You can but I think it's better to understand where morality actually comes from. I don't think it comes from faith or religion. It comes from humanism.

Speak for yourself Luthier. pbbbt

re: #197 lifeofthemind

Yes-they worship death. Doesn't that say it all?

In our society a good father daughter bond is somewhat difficult but a most rewarding life experience.

Don't get too close, lest busybodies in certain positions of power/authority get the wrong idea and turn your life into a living hell.

re: #193 brakes

Yeah, I remember that. The mother bought a new razor to kill her daughter.

See that ! ? !

Just think of the extra effort ... and expense!

Who says these parents don't care about their kids!

//////

re: #163 abolitionist
From your link:
Dallas Observer columnist Megan Feldman didn't understand the problem after Sarah and amina Said were killed, and fulminated against conservatives instead. I wonder if Sandela Kanwal's death will give her another excuse to say it's just domestic violence and everybody does it.
[Link: blogs.dallasobserver.com...]

What do we want? SHARIA
When do we want it? NOW
What do we want? HONOR KILLINGS
When do we want them?NOW
Who will we hear from about these honor killings? (chirp, chirp, chirp)
Not N.O.W. that is for sure........

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I would think that "morality" is merely an evolved (and much more complex) version of the "herd instinct." Religion was used as part of this morality in early civilization.

re: #151 Dianna

I'd like to agree with you, but that isn't true. Islam seems to make it easier, and give the left some way to excuse it ("It's their culture!"), but fathers have killed their daughters who weren't muslims, and didn't have tribal honor to uphold.

i do agree that fathers have killed their daughters in non-moslem countries however, islam has a pervasive system in place to make this practice wide spread and an accepted part of their culture. it's the norm for them.
that's the problem.

re: #197 lifeofthemind

Worship...sounds like a root cause to me.

...

re: #146 MandyManners

Good luck (when you find the time) with your blog. There is a lot of trial and error when you're first trying to get one going, but once you're there, it goes a lot more smoothly. I'm sure many of our friends here who blog would be happy to assist you when you're ready, myself included.

re: #187 christheprofessor

Jefferson could pretty much justify anything in his mind; he was the ultimate compartmentalizer.

Think about it - he could write two different letters with either hand, at the same time. That's not "genius", it's something more odd.

If you didn't realize it already, I'm not exactly a charter member of the Thomas Jefferson fan club.

A friend sent this to me. I did not check the stated facts for accuracy:

HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?

This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming.

I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.

How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years"

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. from dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Gore: 19 Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000 Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million Bush: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2 Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

appeasement & revisionism do not make for a patriot

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

One of the reasons that Muslims turn into lunatics is the realization that their cult is a dead end. America, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Germany, Britain, Canada, Australia, Russia, Scandinavia, Brazil, just to name the the leaders, each accomplish more in a year than all of the Ummah in decades. Islam is a dead end. So like an ignorant street thug it seeks to destroy its betters. To be caught in Islam when you are young is like being in hell.

re: #205 nyc redneck

Exactly. It is expected that parents, siblings or aunts and uncles join forces to extinguish the blight on the family honour. In Turkey, there is a new way of doing it-young women are "encouraged" to kill themselves so that the men folk in the family don't have to face any (if there were any serious punishments anyway...) jail time. Don't want the men to waste any time in jail over their dishonourable slut daughter/sister, etc...

The worst thing is that his daughter trusted him.

re: #206 Reno911

Worship...sounds like a root cause to me.

Welll ...

... guess that sorta depends on what the meaning of the word "worship" is ...

/

re: #177 laZardo

I personally believe that there is no such definite thing as morality. There is, however, such a thing as "society," and that within that society, we have to do as the proverbial Romans do in order to survive unless we are naturally abhorred by that society.

Do you meant to say that if we lived in an Islamic "society", we would need to live as they do in order to survive?

re: #181 Killgore Trout

You can but I think it's better to understand where morality actually comes from. I don't think it comes from faith or religion. It comes from humanism.

I'll differ on that summation with you.

But in lieu of an argument...

Please find me one 'humanism based' moral to challenge my view?

Or, not... (I was hoping for a challenge that I've never seen before).

And we are the great satan.

Note: This may be a topic for another thread.

We have been talking about honor killings in Georgia, and slavery in Dubai. My outrage meter is pegged. Then I picked this morning's Tampa Tribune and found THIS. It's about child brides in Yemen. The article begins:

JIBLA, Yemen - JIBLA, Yemen - One morning last month, Arwa Abdu Muhammad Ali walked out of her husband's house here and ran to a local hospital, where she complained that he had been beating and sexually abusing her for eight months. That alone would be surprising in Yemen, a deeply conservative Arab society where family disputes tend to be solved privately. What made it even more unusual was that Arwa was 9 years old.

re: #202 jaunte

She misses the point, entirely. Worse, some idiots - I speak advisedly, I actually spoke to such a young, female idiot lately - excuse it!

Left to people like that, it becomes group rights, and special laws for special groups, and before you know it, we're back to the war of each against all.

I think I'll give it a miss.

re: #217 reine.de.tout

Else you get beheaded or otherwise painfully decapitated, yes. Different societies evolved their own versions of morality, and as they expanded they inevitably start to clash one way or another.

re: #194 buzzsawmonkey

Where was "humanism" for the first 10,000 years or so of man's existence?

It's there if you look for it.

re: #216 RedPepper

Welll ...

... guess that sorta depends on what the meaning of the word "worship" is ...

/

Reminds me of Bill Buckley's line about equating someone who saves an old lady and someone who kills an old lady as both being people "who push old ladies around."

re: #194 buzzsawmonkey

Where was "humanism" for the first 10,000 years or so of man's existence?

Thag say: God dead, Cro Magnon kill Him.

re: #204 laZardo

I would think that "morality" is merely an evolved (and much more complex) version of the "herd instinct." Religion was used as part of this morality in early civilization.

This is why so many are so vehemently against evolution no matter the mountains of evidence, reason and logic behind the science. You are questioning morality as if it were just a biological function when in fact it is something special. I don't think morality has divine origins but I can appreciate that such a beautiful concept shouldn't be overshadowed by the process that allowed it to exist.

For whatever reason, human beings can reason that an innocent person being brutally murdered, raped, beaten, tortured or hurt is inherently wrong. Sure you can start getting into the science of such a miraculous thing but that's missing the point. We, as a species, know right from wrong. Some of us choose wrong, many of us choose right.

re: #198 Thanos

heh.

re: #220 ErnieG

That was in the blogosphere a few months ago...

Good night ladies.

re: #226 ploome hineni

You're not looking.

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

Bully for him.

He was still a screaming hypocrite.

re: #209 Dianna

I'm certainly no scholar of Jefferson (or anything else, for that matter), but he did two things that were monumental -- wrote the Declaration of Independence and obtained the Louisiana Purchase. I feel no guilt for American westward expansion, as I know that American Indians weren't the angels portrayed in revisionist history. His contribution to humanity is beyond comprehension in many parts of the world that have never known freedom.

Still, all humans are flawed, and Jefferson was human -- I cannot imagine continuing to own slaves after having penned the words "all men are created equal."

re: #221 Dianna

She grew excited, trying not to look at the real issue.

re: #230 WriterMom

That was in the blogosphere a few months ago...

Still, it shocked me, and I'm hard to shock.

So finished with this for the night. G'night friends. Kiss your children tonight. Tell them you love them.

re: #204 laZardo

I would think that "morality" is merely an evolved (and much more complex) version of the "herd instinct." Religion was used as part of this morality in early civilization.

Friedrich, is that you?
Morality is herd instinct in the individual.
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 116

re: #220 ErnieG

Note: This may be a topic for another thread.

We have been talking about honor killings in Georgia, and slavery in Dubai. My outrage meter is pegged. Then I picked this morning's Tampa Tribune and found THIS. It's about child brides in Yemen. The article begins:

We're not talking about the nation of Georgia either, don't know if you noticed, this is the state of Georgia.

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

But he did invent the storm window.

Really?

Excellent idea. I'd say it almost erases the whole boinking the slave girls thing.

re: #189 buzzsawmonkey

The reason many of the children of more-assimilated Muslim immigrant parents are embracing jihad and Islamism is that they find the freedoms offered by society terrifying, and are looking for certainty.

Their parents, who know what they fled from, became assimilated for that reason. The children, like the native children of the rich who play at being working-class radicals, are able to play footsie with deadly ideologies precisely because they do not know them firsthand.

well, who's to know how freedom will end up affecting someone.
i'm talking abt. these young women who are killed because they don't want to marry their cousin or a 560 yr.old man they have never met back in a hell hole they have never been to.
you may get some jihadis because they are "terrified" of freedom but you will also get some women who will work to dismantle the hideous bonds islam.
think hirsi ali.

OT: Speaking of idiots...Harry Reid - YouTube sensation.

When your hometown newspaper is embarrassed by you, you know it is time to call it quits.

re: #226 ploome hineni

Not in the 12 Tables, to be sure!

re: #218 slokat

Objectivism.

Objectivism holds that morality is a "code of values accepted by choice." According to Leonard Peikoff, Rand held that "man needs [morality] for one reason only: he needs it in order to survive. Moral laws, in this view, are principles that define how to nourish and sustain human life; they are no more than this and no less."[7] Objectivism does not claim that there is a moral requirement to choose to value one's life. As Allan Gotthelf points out, for Rand, "Morality rests on a fundamental, pre-moral choice:"[12] the moral agent's choice to live rather than die, so that the moral "ought" is always contextual and agent-relative.

O.T. I'm sorry if this has been brought up before and I missed it. I haven't had much spare time in the last few days. But W.T.F. is going on in England? I'm basically speechless: Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel in class and pray to Allah-
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

re: #213 pat

"pat" -

"STUCK ON STUPID STREET?"

-S-

Gak!

Off to watch the 5th Element for the hundredth time.

re: #228 Killgore Trout

heh.

The problem with Humanism is that there are so many flavors, and each has it's own broad brush sweeping statements that sound great but measure little in practics that it turns into a sort of mellifluous goo.

E.G. Isaac Asimov was a secular humanist, but he was also for the UN, One world govt', and was the first horseman of the warmpocalypse.

A decent essay here....
Humanism and morality
My point is that this douchebag who killed his own daughter has scriptural/religious backing for his actions but it's still immoral.

re: #227 DeathtotheSwiss

Actually, for much of human history, that was very much the exception. We got here with a lot of difficulty. I'd like to stay here.

On bad days, I don't think we will.

re: #226 ploome hineni

where?

/how dare you question the King of the militant atheists, you're not worthy

re: #249 buzzsawmonkey

"buzz" -

Put up his Storm Windows AND build is DUMBWAITER!

-S-

re: #248 Racer X

Gak!

Off to watch the 5th Element for the hundredth time.

Wow. It was good, but not that good. ;)

re: #235 jaunte

I see that. She's a fool, though; domestic violence is terrible, and women die every week because the police can't really protect them. But...honor killings are quite another kettle of fish, and need to be seen as such.

re: #245 The Other Les

..."chose to value one's life", is the antithesis of Christian morality.

Are you arguing against my position or for my position?

re: #227 DeathtotheSwiss

This is why so many are so vehemently against evolution no matter the mountains of evidence, reason and logic behind the science. You are questioning morality as if it were just a biological function when in fact it is something special. I don't think morality has divine origins but I can appreciate that such a beautiful concept shouldn't be overshadowed by the process that allowed it to exist.

For whatever reason, human beings can reason that an innocent person being brutally murdered, raped, beaten, tortured or hurt is inherently wrong. Sure you can start getting into the science of such a miraculous thing but that's missing the point. We, as a species, know right from wrong. Some of us choose wrong, many of us choose right.

The problem is how to define wrong from right. Some versions of said "morality" define an "innocent" person actually deserving to get killed for "honor." And with the genetic lottery in humans being as diverse as it is today (race issues clearly aside) along with the evolution of different cultures, some human beings prefer to use the art of language rather than the art of beating the other guy into a bloody pulp.

The reason so many are against evolution (and on a side note, the existence of aliens) is that it not only directly contradicts "Scripture," but also implies that our sense of what is "wrong and right" is not entirely a human trait.

That's not to say outrage at this "honor killing" is not expected. This sort of crime is just not "acceptable" within the bounds of the society in which it happened.

re: #239 sparrowlake

Friedrich, is that you?
Morality is herd instinct in the individual.
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 116

There is no Nietzsche literature in Iran.

re: #254 ploome hineni

You tell me. That's my point. You're assuming we have a different definition because of our different backgrounds. Guarantee you it's the same.

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Killgore, Islam sanctions this behaviour. It is not considered immoral.

re: #258 ploome hineni

what he did is moral and honorable in his value system

Hence my rant about multiculturalism.

re: #249 buzzsawmonkey

Of course, Jefferson had slaves to put up his storm windows.

Excellent point. Clean 'em, too.

The problem stems from a culture that views women as chattel. We will not see this change until women everywhere demand it- this includes Western women as well as women living in said cultures. Until leftist women stop making multicultural excuses for this treatment, many non-leftist feminists are going to have to do twice the lifting.

re: #258 ploome hineni

what he did is moral and honorable in his value system

exactly.

re: #259 Dianna

I think she might argue in favor of allowing some sharia courts to judge family law issues, if that would upset some political conservatives.

re: #256 Dr. Shalit

Reply to Self -

I'm a kinda sorta fan of Vice president AARON BURR, and glad to see his collateral progeny in the US Senate from the great state of North Carolina.

-S-