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Rebuilding Ground Zero

Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:58:24 am PDT

With the current effort mired in politics and bureaucracy, is it time to step back and rethink the Ground Zero rebuilding strategy?

Since al-Qaida demolished the World Trade Center nearly seven years ago, New York’s naked emperors—Governors George Pataki and Eliot Spitzer and architect Daniel Libeskind—have viewed an historic rebuilding challenge as an opportunity to invent a square wheel and then deny for years that it can’t roll. This week, the Port Authority, which runs the site, released a report admitting that little progress had been made there—still more evidence that the government has responded to an external attack with a self-inflicted disaster. But all the dillydallying may provide an unlikely opportunity for Governor David Paterson and World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein, who should examine an entirely different approach: building new twin towers at Ground Zero.

It may sound crazy to say that we should consider throwing away years’ worth of planning. But we’ve barely moved toward completion since 2002; in fact, last week’s report threw out cost estimates or timetables for rebuilding. “The schedule and cost for each of the public projects on the site face significant delays and cost overruns,” wrote Chris Ward, the new director of the Port Authority, to Paterson last Monday. Further, “at least 15 fundamental issues critical to the overall project” are “not yet . . . resolved.”

Indeed: all New York has to show for its hoping and waiting is a partial support structure for the Freedom Tower—which, when it’s built, will be a sad white elephant. And all that the state promises today is more waiting: waiting for officials to figure out how a poorly designed, half-billion-dollar memorial can withstand the weight of the trees that are supposed to go on top of it; waiting for them to figure out a workable plan for the fancy, multibillion-dollar, Calatrava-designed transit hub, where inevitable changes will mean more changes and delays to everything else on the site. Can anyone be confident that the eventual results won’t be physical evidence of unimaginable folly?

On 9/11, al-Qaida murdered 2,974 people and destroyed two iconic office towers that dominated New York’s skyline, another lone office tower nearby, and some smaller support buildings. We can’t recover stolen lives. But what would it take to make New York physically whole again, while paying tribute to 9/11’s history and victims? One obvious answer is to build two iconic office towers that dominate New York’s skyline once again, surrounded by some smaller buildings. Notice that the one project that has achieved completion after 9/11—Silverstein’s Seven World Trade Center, the lone office tower near the main site—did so partly because Silverstein realized that al-Qaida’s attack wasn’t a mandate to reinvent the obvious. He simply built a more elegant tower to succeed what al-Qaida had destroyed, modernized for the twenty-first century in terms of safety and aesthetics and placed in a superior setting.

New York could take a similar approach with the rest of the site.

Also see: WTC2011 || Better In Every Way.

UPDATE at 7/7/08 11:11:22 am:

Lawhawk has been covering the politics of the Ground Zero mess for some time. If you want the down and dirty details, start at the top and read downwards.

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307 comments

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1 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:00:57am

Get the government out of the way.

Private developers would've already built it.

2 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:01:21am

My idiot brother thinks that Bush, Cheney and the Mossad stuffed the WTC with explosives.

and he is teaching this to his 12 year old.

3 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:01:58am

I've alwayse said they should rebuild the Twin Towers, just as they were.

4 mineral  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:02:25am

Yes, Yes, Yes.

Please make it look like the old one. But better.

5 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:02:53am

I still like Penn & Teller's suggestion [NSFW]

6 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:02:56am

This is humiliating.

And what's with this:

And all that the state promises today is more waiting: waiting for officials to figure out how a poorly designed, half-billion-dollar memorial can withstand the weight of the trees that are supposed to go on top of it

Is 'trees' an arcitechural term, or is this thing going to be some sissy fru-fru thing?

7 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:03:11am

It's New York. Odds are if it is ever built it will be an abomination anyway. I suspect the delay is being done on purpose by some people who actually care.

8 Ojoe  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:03:18am

I would say build the towers back more or less as they were.

Zero ultimate effect left for Al Qaeda

9 mineral  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:04:03am

Most people I have talked with want it to be like the old ones.

One guy wanted it to look just like the old ones, but a darker color... and twice as big.

10 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:05:18am

re: #2 FrogMarch

Does your idiot brother know how expensive it is to have unionized New York City employees stuff explosives into buildings? Even Bush/Cheney/Mossad don't have that kind of scratch...

11 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:05:41am

While the WTC was a symbol of New York, sadly the lack of rebuilding is another symbol of the incompetence plaguing New York.

12 white rabbit  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:06:11am

One story taller.

That was Trump's idea, and it was perfect.

13 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:06:27am

I think Saudi Arabia should pay for it.

14 NoSubmission  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:06:29am

The political soup is a quagmire here.

15 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:06:42am

re: #5 Slumbering Behemoth

I still like Penn & Teller's suggestion [NSFW]

Giant strips of BACON!
Sometimes I really like Penn and Teller.

16 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:06:54am

The Port Authority has completely botched things to date, but starting from scratch or trying to rebuild the towers means still more delays and further costs that spiral out of control.

Of course, anyone who's been reading my blog for any length of time has known this.

None of this should come as a surprise. None of this should be shocking.

The Port Authority answers to the governors of NY and NJ, and Corzine has pretty much given NY a free hand to handle things since Ground Zero is in Manhattan, but Corzine has been carping of late that the costs are going to start hitting NJ projects so he might want a bigger say.

Silverstein is the only person to get something rebuilt, and he was pushed aside by the Port Authority when they claimed he was being obstructionist. The facts speak for themselves. 7WTC stands, while Ground Zero remains a pit.

The Freedom Tower barely pokes above street level - a situation that has been unchanged for months. Look across the street at the Goldman Sachs building, and they built from scratch a building topped off a few weeks ago, even though it started well after Ground Zero.

Cost overruns continue every day work gets delayed.

The delays pile up when you start to take into consideration that two other damaged buildings have yet to be dismantled - Fiterman Hall to the North, and Deutsche Bank to the South. The Deutsche Bank building is the key - that has to be demolished before the transportation center and screening center can be built to accomodate the bus and truck traffic to the site. It remains a hulking black blot on the skyline because the LMDC botched the demolition - resulting in two dead firefighters and several other serious injuries.

While one can pine for rebuilding the Twin Towers, it simply isn't feasible.

17 faraway  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:07:01am

Make it a missile silo pointing to Mecca

/kidding, right?

18 Render  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:07:13am

re: #3 Iron Fist

Same here.

MORE
BETTER,
R

19 MandyManners  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:07:23am

Give me the money and the authority and I'll have it done within two years.

20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:07:25am

Living well is the best revenge.

Quit trying to build a utopian memorial/trade center. Build a bigger better trade center and get on with it.

21 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:09:16am

re: #10 experiencedtraveller

Does your idiot brother know how expensive it is to have unionized New York City employees stuff explosives into buildings? Even Bush/Cheney/Mossad don't have that kind of scratch...

Nope. Let me tell you my idiot brother is obsessed with hating George Bush and assigning all bad things to him. No amount of common sense gets through.

22 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:09:33am

re: #15 FrogMarch

Giant strips of BACON!
Sometimes I really like Penn and Teller.

That was idea #2, idea #3 is my favorite.

23 Pyrocles  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:10:25am

With all that beauracratic red tape, you'd think they were attempting to put up a Stop sign here in Buffalo, NY. Same socialist state, same crap.

24 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:10:47am

Iron Fist,

I've alwayse said they should rebuild the Twin Towers, just as they were.

We can make a few changes. For example, we can put the Saudi and Pakistani consulates on the 105th floors of the North and South Towers.

25 bosforus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:10:58am

In my eyes, making them "bigger and better" doesn't really send a message. Just rebuild them as they were. It's simple and it would frustrate the terrorists more than anything else.

26 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:10:59am

re: #6 nikis-knight

No, they would be real trees, but that's not the problem that the memorial has - it's the water features. They're supposed to have waterfalls that cascade into the open area close to bedrock, but wind and freezing temps aren't taken into account, so we're probably going to have a frozen tundra.

The memorial and the problems with the site go back to a woeful master plan done by Libeskind and chosen by Gov. Pataki despite better designs from Sir Norman Foster that would have honored the Twin Towers and given the site a sense of place and memory.

The best memorial would be one that sees the site built. Right now, we've got nothing but the second temporary PATH terminal and an open wound. 7WTC is built, but that's overshadowed by the empty sky.

27 faraway  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:11:35am

Move the Gitmo prisoners to the North Tower.

28 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:12:02am

re: #21 FrogMarch

Nope. Let me tell you my idiot brother is obsessed with hating George Bush and assigning all bad things to him. No amount of common sense gets through.

Hey! We must be related! I have an idiot brother, too!

29 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:12:54am

I'd like to have a nice statue of Bin Laden hanging from a gallows, no matter what they do with the buildings.
Oh, and the statue should be made of 100% pig products.

30 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:13:31am

re: #24 Dirk Diggler


Wouldn't really dissuade the terrorists from attacking them given that the jihadis don't think those governments are sufficiently Islamist.

31 Alouette  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:13:37am

re: #29 Kosh's Shadow

I'd like to have a nice statue of Bin Laden hanging from a gallows, no matter what they do with the buildings.
Oh, and the statue should be made of 100% pig products.

I don't want a statue, I want the real thing.

"Terrorists, ye be warned!"

32 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:13:42am

re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth

That was idea #2, idea #3 is my favorite.

Indeed. "business as usual mother F-ers F U!"

33 bosforus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:13:54am

re: #26 lawhawk

They're supposed to have waterfalls that cascade into the open area close to bedrock, but wind and freezing temps aren't taken into account, so we're probably going to have a frozen tundra.

The age old clash of engineering vs. creative design.

34 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:14:20am

I think they should build the first Obama statue there.

Like the Buddhas.

35 opnion  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:14:24am

Rebuild the Towers & build them one floor higher than the were

36 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:14:40am

Everyday that hole stands unfilled with work is a small victory for our enemy.

37 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:15:54am

Terrorists and left-wing troofers are all kind of the same: they're assholes.

38 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:16:11am

re: #31 Alouette

I don't want a statue, I want the real thing.

"Terrorists, ye be warned!"

Yes, but after being buried under tons of rubble, I doubt the remains would be recognizable. At least that's where I hope he is now, along with eternal torment of being burned, crushed, chopped to death, pain multiplied by 3000, forever.
Except for some time where he sees the US and Israel continuing our infidel ways. I wonder which would hurt him more?

39 tunnelrat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:16:30am

It is a sad testament to the power of big city beauracracy that virtually nothing has happened there in seven years. Here in Minnesota, we are nearing the completion of a new 35W bridge, not yet a year since the collapse of the old one. Was good to see the government award a contract quickly and then get out of the way.

40 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:17:01am

re: #28 Russkilitlover

Hey! We must be related! I have an idiot brother, too!

Isn't it disgusting and frustrating?
The saddest part is that my idiot brother is instilling this nonsense into his 12 year old boy.

41 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:17:22am

JCM,

Everyday that hole stands unfilled with work is a small victory for our enemy.

I'd rather have an empty whole than that garish, vacuous memorial that was planned.

42 bosforus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:17:25am

Guess it wouldn't be a wtc rebuilding thread without this classic proposal.
[Link: politicalhumor.about.com...]

43 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:17:28am

OT, but believe it or not,
Wilson & Pflame lied, Iraq had 550 tons of yellowcake~

US removes huge stockpile of Uranium yellowcake
Last major stockpile from Saddam's nuclear efforts arrives in Canada
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

44 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:18:06am

re: #36 jcm

Everyday that hole stands unfilled with work is a small victory for our enemy.

That's roughly 2,297 days, give or take a few. It angers me to no end.

45 opnion  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:18:11am

re: #36 jcm

Everyday that hole stands unfilled with work is a small victory for our enemy.


Yup, you just know anytime one of them fly into New York (without TSA hassle), it is a real thrill to see the changed skyline for him.
When these buildings eventually are rebuilt, you just know that the ROP will want some kind of 'Tolerance" Museum or some crap.

46 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:18:33am

What ever happened to that hideous stubby pointy glass "tower of power" pointy-thing design?

47 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:18:56am

re: #45 opnion

Yup, you just know anytime one of them fly into New York (without TSA hassle), it is a real thrill to see the changed skyline for him.
When these buildings eventually are rebuilt, you just know that the ROP will want some kind of 'Tolerance" Museum or some crap.

Isn't that the plan already?

48 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:19:30am

Build the towers back more or less as they were before only a few stories taller....and make all the toilets face Mecca.

49 faraway  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:19:39am

Build a giant white cross.

50 hack  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:20:14am

no, build it bigger and better.

and then mount frickin' rolling airframe missile systems on top of them.

51 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:20:21am

re: #49 faraway

Build a giant white cross.

And a Magen David (Jewish Star)

52 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:21:19am
53 opnion  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:21:35am

re: #47 nikis-knight

Isn't that the plan already?

I know that Muslim groups pushed for it, but I don't believe that it was agreed to.
Some flamin fool of an architect, wanted to do "The Embrace of the Crescent" in the PA field

54 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:21:35am

re: #48 Ringo the Gringo

Build the towers back more or less as they were before only a few stories taller....and make all the toilets face Mecca.

Not quite.

Make the toilets face AWAY ... so that the naked backsides will.

/probably should add a sarc

55 TalkinKamel  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:21:48am

Given that the spot is a virtual tomb for those who were crushed and pulverized to death there, and the unreliability of all these supposedly great architects who are supposedly going to come up with these splendid memorials (such as the flight 93 abomination), I've thought for a long time that the area should be treated as "hallowed ground"; maybe put a park, or a simple memorial there, but nothing big for politicians to fight over.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of simply building back the towers, and opening them for business again. . .

56 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:22:02am
57 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:22:37am

re: #49 faraway

Build a giant white cross.

* * *
Been there,done that...and it drives "social democrats" crazy, in Spain:

[Link: es.wikipedia.org...]

58 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:22:57am

re: #41 Dirk Diggler

JCM,

I'd rather have an empty whole than that garish, vacuous memorial that was planned.

I agree with that sentiment. I would like to have seen construction started on new towers, just like the old ones but taller while the place was still smoldering.

This vacuous dithering about the "plan" just confirms our enemies opinion of us.

59 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:23:16am

I say we make it four buildings....with one taller than all the others. >:)

60 Sunlight  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:23:30am

I would have to say this post brought mini-tears... we in fly over country learned to keep moving, working, etc. by compartmentalizing 9/11. When it pops up without warning, it's kind of overwhelming. We all have the idiot siblings and best friends who are going to elect Obama the Marxist... the kitchen table newspapers just have to much voter access and are serving as Obama's marketing department. It is overwhelming the election process. Charles is doing great with LGF, but the numbers of people who don't read a single blog are huge, huge. Blog readers are the tiny minority of voters and the rest are in the sway of the local newspapers. But some know... did you see this on Powerline? A big thank you to these folks:
The Big Re-Up

61 Charles  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:23:49am

re: #16 lawhawk

Updated with a link to your Ground Zero posts...

62 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:24:27am

re: #48 Ringo the Gringo

Build the towers back more or less as they were before only a few stories taller....and make all the toilets face Mecca.

re: #54 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Not quite.

Make the toilets face AWAY ... so that the naked backsides will.

/probably should add a sarc

I don't remember which, but one of those, I think, is required under Sharia, iirc.

re: #53 opnion

I know that Muslim groups pushed for it, but I don't believe that it was agreed to.
Some flamin fool of an architect, wanted to do "The Embrace of the Crescent" in the PA field

I think that most of that design was kept. Anyone know the details of what was actually done?

63 Render  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:25:09am

All this Tower stuff is the same to me as the border fence thing.

STFU and build it. Anything else is an excuse.

NOW
WHAT,
R

64 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:25:29am

re: #3 Iron Fist

Just add about 20 floors on the rebuild. Then relocate the UN to those floors. It wouldn't stop the islamofascists from targeting it, but perhaps the majority of the world will take the threat more seriously.

It is pathetic how politics and government incompetence has derailed the rebuilding effort. And these are the same people who are expected by the left to run health care in this country......shudder.

65 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:25:37am

Steve Cuozzo points out yet another reason why the Twin Towers will not be rebuilt - the plans for the new office towers is moving forward by Silverstein:

The commercial skyscrapers being built by the PA and Larry Silverstein are the real news out of Ground Zero - not that you'd know it from lazy media coverage. Pore through Ward's laundry list of unresolved issues last week - most, such as the need to demolish 130 Liberty St., already ancient history - and a surprising fact emerges:

Unless Ward is hiding something, the office towers aren't in bad shape at all, though they're long overdue and subject to design alterations.

Now, Ward was hiding something - the fact that the PA is trying to unload the Freedom Tower onto a private developer, as The Post first reported and as the PA tacitly confirmed to Bloomberg News when it acknowledged that "all options are on the table."

But privatizing the Freedom Tower would only be good news. Better still, all four Ground Zero office towers have taken on an irreversible momentum likely to shoulder aside the "whuddum I gonna do?" whining that bedevils the rest of the 16-acre site.

The Freedom Tower looks to have passed the point of no return. Steel is out of the ground, the PA has awarded over $500 million in contracts and hardly a week passes without one supplier or another crowing over a new contract.

Silverstein, meanwhile, has already awarded more than $1 billion in trade contracts for his towers - including for foundations, curtain walls, elevators and mechanical and electrical trades. He'll award $1 billion over the summer and excavation is well underway for the foundations of towers 3 and 4.

It's the non-commercial portion of Ground Zero that is a mess - the memorial, Deutsche Bank, Fiterman Hall, Freedom Tower, and PATH hub that are a disaster.

66 coquimbojoe  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:26:02am

Don't know if it has been posted, but I like this design....

67 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:27:35am

re: #58 jcm

This vacuous dithering about the "plan" just confirms our enemies opinion of us.

Good afternoon (for just a bit)

Don't know what made the neural connection, but "vacuous dithering" near-immediately brought up a fantasy of turning Phil Sheridan loose in Helmand Province and Pakistan's Tribal Areas.

(Grant told him that a crow flying over the Shenandoah should have to pack a lunch.)

68 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:27:41am

re: #66 coquimbojoe

Don't know if it has been posted, but I like this design....

Are there 4-5 buildings with one being the tallest? I'm at work.

69 faraway  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:28:35am

I guess building a church on the site and naming it "The New Hagia Sophia" is out of the question?

70 coquimbojoe  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:28:54am

re: #68 Hard Right

Are there 4-5 buildings with one being the tallest? I'm at work.

yesssssss...........

71 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:29:22am

re: #61 Charles

Thanks, and I just updated with the latest bit of reporting from today's papers.

72 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:30:18am

re: #63 Render

All this Tower stuff is the same to me as the border fence thing.

STFU and build it. Anything else is an excuse.

NOW
WHAT,
R

Add to that domestic drilling.

73 Sunlight  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:30:38am

re: #63 Render

All this Tower stuff is the same to me as the border fence thing.

STFU and build it. Anything else is an excuse.

NOW
WHAT,
R

Have you ever watched The Wire? It is unbelieveable. Like current historical fiction of the drug dealer scene. Some of the incidents in it bring to mind cross fire that has happened right in neighborhood parks and other public places where I live... and it shows plausible backgrounds of why this kind of thing is happening. I saw that the creator of the show is putting out one on HBO on the first days of the Iraq incursion... I want to get him to do a series on the southern border... the war going on just south of it and the effects in the border states and enclaves...

74 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:31:34am

OT:

I posted this in the spin offs...via Gateway Pundit:

New information reveals that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was indirectly sending messages to the FARC. The Marxist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) is designated as a terrorist group by the US government. Speaker Pelosi was doing this while at the same time she refused to bring a free trade agreement with Colombia up for a vote in the US House. In fact, Pelosi took extraordinary steps to block this trade agreement with America's closest ally in South America.

75 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:32:14am

UAE cancels Iraq debt, names new envoy

ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — The United Arab Emirates canceled billions of dollars of Iraqi debt Sunday and moved to restore a full diplomatic mission in Baghdad, evidence of Iraq's improved security and growing acceptance of its Shiite-led government.

76 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:32:29am

re: #70 coquimbojoe

yesssssss...........

I agree 100%. That is the one we should build.

77 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:32:29am

re: #67 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Good afternoon (for just a bit)

Don't know what made the neural connection, but "vacuous dithering" near-immediately brought up a fantasy of turning Phil Sheridan loose in Helmand Province and Pakistan's Tribal Areas.

(Grant told him that a crow flying over the Shenandoah should have to pack a lunch.)


* * *
The lovely Shenandoah Valley, known as the breadbasket of Virginia during the Civil War days, is nothing like Hellmand province, poppygrowing & heaven-forsaken country.

Except....Virginia's Shenandoah valley is now full of illegal aliens & gang activity, only miles from Washington, DC, and Virginia's democrat governor won't lift a finger to route them out. A young salvadoran woman was either beheaded or disemboweled in Shenandoah, Virginia.

78 bullskin  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:32:50am

re: #3 Iron Fist

But 20 more floors or more. New technologies and 3000 to honor.

79 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:33:12am

re: #67 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Good afternoon (for just a bit)

Don't know what made the neural connection, but "vacuous dithering" near-immediately brought up a fantasy of turning Phil Sheridan loose in Helmand Province and Pakistan's Tribal Areas.

(Grant told him that a crow flying over the Shenandoah should have to pack a lunch.)

Grant & Sheridan & Sherman.
How to Win 101.

80 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:33:32am

re: #70 coquimbojoe

The current plan has the Freedom Tower topping out at 1,776 feet at the top of the antenna. It would have an observation deck at around 1,380 feet (the approximate height of the former Twin Towers).

2 WTC
- Foster and Partners - 1,270 feet (taller than Empire State building)
3 WTC Sir Richard Rodgers - 1,255 feet
4 WTC - 975 feet.

All these structures taken together would nearly rebuild the 10 million sf of office space destroyed in the 9/11 attacks.

81 LeonidasOfSparta  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:33:38am

re: #5 Slumbering Behemoth

LMAO I love it!

You know I KNEW (though I didn't watch enough P&T to "know know it") that those two were LIZARDS!

Build the towers, business as usual, and we will go on doing what we do, being FREE. (although towers of bacon certainly makes a great statement.)

82 Drogheda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:33:46am

re: #3 Iron Fist

I've alwayse said they should rebuild the Twin Towers, just as they were.

That'd be my preference. Put them back up looking exactly as they were.

83 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:34:18am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

I posted this in the spin offs...via Gateway Pundit:

The story I saw didn't finger Pelosi, but James McGovern of MA.
Absolute treason. >:(

84 pegcity  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:34:44am

Let trump have at it

85 medaura18586  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:34:53am

What a sore sight the pit is... I've lived in Manhattan on and off for a couple of years now. No progress at all in two years. It's shameful!

86 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:35:20am
87 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:35:25am

re: #81 LeonidasOfSparta

They have a very strong anti-idiotarian sense about them.

88 opnion  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:35:31am

Later Lizards. Be glad that you are not staff here.
We are on our way to the conference room , where I will punish all of them with a presentation.

89 bosforus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:35:41am

Ground Zero cams. See the shame for yourself!
[Link: www.earthcam.com...]

90 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:36:24am
91 tfc3rid  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:36:37am

Hi all!

Chris Ward, now the bureaucratic hack who is the front man for the Port Authority, I know well... He used to be the Commissioner of the NYC Department of Environmental Protection... Another position he held beause of being a major crony of Mayor Bloomberg... He allowed the City's to be handcuffed in that job and blamed engineers and architects for 'exaggerating' cost estimates and schedules when he was in charge there too...

92 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:37:31am

re: #84 pegcity

Let trump have at it

Why? He builds some ho-hum, boring buildings. Get a real architect, like that guy who designed the spire being built in Chicago.

93 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:37:33am

re: #83 Hard Right

The story I saw didn't finger Pelosi, but James McGovern of MA.
Absolute treason. >:(

* * *
Once again, democrats conducting negotiations without preconditions, with FARC and other, unelected terrorist groups out to undermine ABOVE board, elected free traders.

94 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:37:41am

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't that the vodka ad which stars Democrats?

Exactly. There is also a lemonade version called Absolute Cowards. It's quite yellow in color.

95 tgibson1962  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:38:59am

I believe a solemn, austere memorial along the lines of the Arizona at Pearl Harbor, in the midst of the rebuilt towers, would be fitting.

96 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:39:15am

re: #93 alegrias

* * *
Once again, democrats conducting negotiations without preconditions, with FARC and other, unelected terrorist groups out to undermine ABOVE board, elected free traders.

Democrats, the enemy of freedom...and common sense....and sanity....

97 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:39:37am
98 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:39:56am

re: #80 lawhawk

I'm catching up on your reporting of this on your blog - great job.

99 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:39:57am

Isn't bin Laden's family in the construction biz?

Let them build it for free.

100 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:39:59am

re: #89 bosforus

That view shows the Freedom Tower. The building under construction behind it to the right is the Goldman Sachs building I reference above.

101 EC Marm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:40:40am

re: #62 nikis-knight

I think that most of that design was kept. Anyone know the details of what was actually done?


Pretty much the same as the situation with the Twin Towers - much wrangling, little actual work being done. Shortly after the "Crescent of Embrace" design was unveiled to much controversy, donations slowed to a halt. You can tell the American people all you want that they are idiots for being offended by a symbol in about 20 odd flags of predominately islamic countries, but when you do, they vote with their wallets.
So not much is going to happen. Add that to the list of attributes of (mid-state) Pennsylvanians; we're not only bitter and Bible clinging, and have an issue with furners, but we don't like being told to contribute to a design that we find offensive.

102 RTLM  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:40:45am

Compare and contast this mess with the Empire State Building time frame. (In 1930)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Empire State Building was designed by Gregory Johnson and his architectural firm Shreve, Lamb and Harmon, which produced the building drawings in just two weeks, using its earlier design for the Carew Tower in Cincinnati, Ohio, as a basis.[10] The building was actually designed from the top down.[11] The general contractors were Starrett Brothers and Eken, and the project was financed by John J. Raskob. The construction company was chaired by Alfred E. Smith, a former Governor of New York.[2]

Excavation of the site began on January 22, 1930, and construction on the building itself started symbolically on March 17—St.Patrick's Day—per Al Smith's influence as Empire State, Inc. president. The project involved 3,400 workers, mostly immigrants from Europe, along with hundreds of Mohawk iron workers, many from the Kahnawake reserve near Montreal. According to official accounts, five workers died during the construction.[12] Governor Smith's grandchildren cut the ribbon on May 1, 1931.

The construction was part of an intense competition in New York for the title of the world's tallest building. Two other projects fighting for the title, 40 Wall Street and the Chrysler Building, were still under construction when work began on the Empire State Building. Each would hold the title for less than a year, as the Empire State Building would surpass them upon its completion, just 410 days after construction commenced. The building was officially opened on May 1, 1931 in dramatic fashion, when United States President Herbert Hoover turned on the building's lights with the push of a button from Washington, D.C. Ironically, the first use of tower lights atop the Empire State Building, the following year, was for the purpose of signalling the victory of Franklin D. Roosevelt over Hoover in the presidential election of November 1932.[13]

It was also well UNDER budget.

103 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:40:50am
104 Big Steve  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:41:04am

Not to change from a very serious topic but WTF are the Google cartoons today supposed to mean.

105 chinesearithmetic  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:41:21am

New York’s naked emperors—Governors George Pataki and Eliot Spitzer and architect Daniel Libeskind

SOme emperors are more naked than others

106 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:41:28am

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

I wouldn't trust the quality.

The MSM assures me that they are great road and school builders.

107 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:41:39am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan,

Nancy Pelosie is a traitor. Where's the surprise in that? If they actually arrested her, now, that would be a surprise.

108 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:41:52am

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't that the vodka ad which stars Democrats?

Wasn't it the followup to the Absolut Aztlan advert?

109 Blue Falcon  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:42:38am

I'd like to see the towers rebuilt, updated to code, reinforced structurally, with Phalanx AA systems built on the roofs. The plaza should be redesigned from the lackluster original with a memorial.

The memorial should have 2,974 life size statues of the people who died with a small plaque at each individuals feet. It is absolutely shameful that not a single modern memorial these days has the courage to remember people as individuals instead of some abstract BS art concept. It's a symptom of moral cowardice in the art and design community.

Walking into a memorial that literally shows all those souls lost frozen in time would really get the enormity of what happened across. It would be a fitting recognition of all those innocents who were murdered by Fascist Islamic thugs for going about their business one day.

But instead we are going to get some abstract donut, because some designer needs to get off some mental and egotistical masturbating. Its all about THEM for the tributary golf claps and awards from like minded peers, they could care less about who the memorial is actually meant to represent.

110 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:43:37am

re: #104 Big Steve

Not to change from a very serious topic but WTF are the Google cartoons today supposed to mean.

They are honoring this dude's birthday.

111 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:44:18am

re: #106 Ben Hur

The MSM assures me that they are great road and school builders.

Wasn't that Patty Murray's claim (Deluded Senator from Washington State)/

112 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:44:20am

re: #104 Big Steve

It's Chagall's birthday.

113 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:44:34am

re: #104 Big Steve

Not to change from a very serious topic but WTF are the Google cartoons today supposed to mean.


Making up for having a special logo on July 4th.

114 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:45:07am

re: #104 Big Steve

Not to change from a very serious topic but WTF are the Google cartoons today supposed to mean.

Chagall's birthday.

115 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:45:36am

re: #111 Athos

Wasn't that Patty Murray's claim (Deluded Senator from Washington State)/

It's what they say about every Islamic terror group.

Hence all the "wings."

116 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:45:51am

re: #96 Hard Right

Democrats, the enemy of freedom...and common sense....and sanity....

* * *
Did you see where John Kerry said yesterday on tv CBS Face The Nation, that he was FOR John McCain before he was against him?

Yes, Kerry said McCain is a flip-flopper, a bigger flip flopper than Kerry!

Kerry, once more, fragging his fellow Navy officers. He's a serial fragger!

117 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:46:23am

But...but...don't they know he's a Joo?

118 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:46:31am

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

They are honoring this dude's birthday.

Typical.
Three years ago today Muslim jihadists killed 57 people in the tube and on a bus in London ...

119 Pullus Iulius  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:46:53am

So while the Big Heads, Big Egos and Big Frauds joust their massive proposals about, these poor people continue to be prevented from rebuilding their humble church: St. Nicholas Church at Ground Zero. What better memorial, and stick in AQ's eye?

120 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:47:44am

re: #118 yma o hyd

Typical.
Three years ago today Muslim jihadists killed 57 people in the tube and on a bus in London ...

For what it's worth, Google has always said their cartoony names are meant to be whimsical and light-hearted, instead of documentary and serious. Like Chagall's birthday. No so much like the London bombings.

121 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:47:51am

re: #116 alegrias

* * *
Did you see where John Kerry said yesterday on tv CBS Face The Nation, that he was FOR John McCain before he was against him?

Yes, Kerry said McCain is a flip-flopper, a bigger flip flopper than Kerry!

Kerry, once more, fragging his fellow Navy officers. He's a serial fragger!

Would his wife be a fragette? (rimshot)

122 bald headed geek  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:48:53am

re: #21 FrogMarch

My father-in-law as well. Over the 4th of July weekend, I was treated to various sermons on how Bush invaded Iraq for Oil, how the CIA was behind 9/11, etc., etc. He think that Fahrenheit 9/11 and Sicko are the two best movies ever made (no, I'm unfortunately not kidding).

Insofar as the Twin Towers are concerned, I have long hoped that they would be rebuilt essentially as they were before........but one story taller. However, I understand Lawhawk's points as well. Like it or not (and for me, it's definitely an emphatic "NOT"), the Twin Towers are never coming back in any form.

BHG

123 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:49:13am

re: #119 Pullus Iulius

So while the Big Heads, Big Egos and Big Frauds joust their massive proposals about, these poor people continue to be prevented from rebuilding their humble church: St. Nicholas Church at Ground Zero. What better memorial, and stick in AQ's eye?

REbuilding the church?

That would be offensive to the Muslims.

The true victims of 9/11.

124 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:49:51am

re: #120 Cognito

Yes, I recall the debates here, on Veteran's day.

Anyway, I like Chagall.

125 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:50:02am

re: #114 Cognito

Chagall's birthday.

That gets my goat!

126 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:50:30am

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That gets my goat!

You said I was next! ;)

127 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:50:39am

re: #109 Blue Falcon

But instead we are going to get some abstract donut, because some designer needs to get off some mental and egotistical masturbating. Its all about THEM for the tributary golf claps and awards from like minded peers, they could care less about who the memorial is actually meant to represent.

I think that the current design, trees and all, well reflects the exact perspective of the hippies and Communists who came up with it. The tower, like their vision of America, will be twisted and pale, a translucent reminder where greatness once stood, topped off with easily six feet of dirt.

They get what we pay for.

128 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:50:48am

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That gets my goat!

Ha. Good one.

129 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:51:53am

re: #120 Cognito

For what it's worth, Google has always said their cartoony names are meant to be whimsical and light-hearted, instead of documentary and serious. Like Chagall's birthday. No so much like the London bombings.

Like their motto: "Don't be American."

130 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:52:41am

re: #126 Hard Right

You said I was next! ;)

Uh oh! Hard Right must be bored.
*heads down*

131 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:52:45am

re: #124 yma o hyd

Yes, I recall the debates here, on Veteran's day.

Anyway, I like Chagall.

I like much of his stuff. Some of it is a bit weird for my taste, but that's all right. He had something to say.

132 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:52:46am

Wasn't one of the World Trade Center attackers (from 1993) given sanctuary in Iraq? Help me lizards. There was a connection, thanks to Pres Clinton allowing WTC attackers to be treated as "criminals" if they were caught at all.

133 Big Steve  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:52:54am

re: #120 Cognito

re: #120 Cognito

For what it's worth, Google has always said their cartoony names are meant to be whimsical and light-hearted, instead of documentary and serious. Like Chagall's birthday. No so much like the London bombings.

Too bad Google missed Paul Avril's Birthday back in May!

134 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:53:00am

re: #129 MajorPribluda

Like their motto: "Don't be American."

I thought it was-"Suck up to Tyrants"-especially Chinese ones?

135 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:53:21am

The Brits are very good at commemorations.

For their own.

136 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:54:06am

re: #130 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Uh oh! Hard Right must be bored.
*heads down*

True, but back to the goat.... How old is it? Don't want any jailbait. :)

137 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:54:12am

re: #134 Hard Right

I thought it was-"Suck up to Tyrants"-especially Chinese ones?

Right up there with Cisco. And half of our own Aerospace industry in the Clinton years.

138 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:54:24am

re: #123 Ben Hur

They can't build the church until the Deutsche Bank building is taken down, and the site prepped for the new transportation/security hub.

139 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:54:49am

re: #128 Cognito

Ha. Good one.

Google, which tries so hard to be innocuous, has mistakenly stumbled into a violence theme.

140 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:55:03am

Marc Chagall though living in France, documented Polish Jewish Stetl/village life from his youth, with images of fiddlers on the roof and floating brides & grooms.

141 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:55:10am

re: #136 Hard Right,

Hey, Mohammed went for 'em young. You'd just be following in a "revered tradition".

142 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:55:13am

re: #138 lawhawk

They can't build the church until the Deutsche Bank building is taken down, and the site prepped for the new transportation/security hub.


Oh, I know.

I was being snarky.

There.

I did it.

I used that damn word.

143 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:55:13am

re: #136 Hard Right

True, but back to the goat.... How old is it? Don't want any jailbait. :)

Jailbai-ai-ai-ai-ait.

144 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:56:17am

re: #136 Hard Right

True, but back to the goat.... How old is it? Don't want any jailbait. :)

The one in the painting looks like it's past adolescence.

145 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:56:36am

re: #118 yma o hyd

Three years ago today Muslim jihadists killed 57 people in the tube and on a bus in London ...

And this morning the Fox newsreader said the bombings had been carried out by "British extremists". No mention of any affiliation with the ROP.

146 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:56:37am

re: #140 alegrias

Marc Chagall though living in France, documented Polish Jewish Stetl/village life from his youth, with images of fiddlers on the roof and floating brides & grooms.

Yes, if I remember correctly, the idea for "Fiddler on the Roof" sprang from one of his paintings.

147 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:57:02am

re: #139 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Google, which tries so hard to be innocuous, has mistakenly stumbled into a violence theme.

Is it? I thought the goat represented fatherhood, and God? Or something like that?

148 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:57:21am

re: #145 Son of the Black Dog

And this morning the Fox newsreader said the bombings had been carried out by "British extremists". No mention of any affiliation with the ROP.


Beer-had?

149 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:57:51am

re: #132 alegrias

I think you are thinking of Ramzi Yousef. But there were other Iraqi connections to the first WTC bombing as well that were never addressed.

It's clear looking at history that responding to state sponsored terrorism or non-state connected terrorism as a purely criminal matter does little to deter future terror attacks.

150 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:58:21am

re: #140 alegrias

Marc Chagall though living in France, documented Polish Jewish Stetl/village life from his youth, with images of fiddlers on the roof and floating brides & grooms.

* * *
Correction, he was NOT Polish, like Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof, but a Belarussian Russian guy from Vitebsk

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

151 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:58:53am

re: #138 lawhawk

Is there any ETC for the decontamination of the building and it's destruction or will the bureaucracy extend this out many more years?

152 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:58:54am

re: #109 Blue Falcon

Well said. I think you are angry enough to read this. It is very relevant to discussion about Memorials and what they should convey.

153 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:59:10am

re: #147 Cognito

Is it? I thought the goat represented fatherhood, and God? Or something like that?

Sorry ... I was too obscure.
violence = violins

(barfing is now permitted)

154 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:59:26am

re: #149 Athos,

Don't tell Obama. He's planned his whole terrorism policy on the way we handled the 1993 WTC bombing.

155 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:59:27am

re: #150 alegrias

* * *
Correction, he was NOT Polish, like Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof, but a Belarussian Russian guy from Vitebsk

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


"of Jewish origin."

Interesting choice of words.

156 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 11:59:43am

re: #132 alegrias

Wasn't one of the World Trade Center attackers (from 1993) given
sanctuary in Iraq? Help me lizards. There was a connection, thanks to
Pres Clinton allowing WTC attackers to be treated as "criminals" if
they were caught at all.


I thought it was Ramzi Yussef, but he was captured in Pakistan.

157 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:00:02pm

re: #153 pre-Boomer Marine brat

violence = violins

Rotating title?

158 Cygnus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:01:03pm

re: #56 buzzsawmonkey

PROPOSAL FOR GROUND ZERO MEMORIAL.
continued

III. A MEMORIAL TO THE FALLEN.

A) The plaza will be surrounded by a retaining wall on which will be carved the names of the victims. Civilians, police, and firefighters will be listed in alphabetical order in separate sections.

B) Landscaping of shrubs, trees and flowers may be done on earth behind the retaining wall.

Visitors to this memorial will see the World Trade Center as it was, just before it fell. They will be able to walk as giants amid the towers of Lower Manhattan—but will nonetheless be able to gain a feeling for the immensity of the destruction. They will have the opportunity to reflect on the scale of the attack; on the horror of the day; on the loss of the victims and the sacrifice of the heroes. The event, and the dead, will be memorialized with factual representation, and without propaganda. What the visitors feel, and what they bring away from the site, will depend upon the visitors themselves—but those who come to mourn, or who come to feel anger, will be able to do so.

And there should be 19 urinals for each one of the terrorists. Put each terrorist's name in a very strategic spot in each urinal.

159 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:01:30pm

re: #144 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The one in the painting looks like it's past adolescence.

Painting? Well that's no fun. I had a nice cliff all picked out too.

(I am sooooo kidding)

160 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:01:40pm

And how was the fiddler affixed firmly to the roof?

Orthopoxy.

161 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:01:58pm

re: #155 Ben Hur

"of Jewish origin."

Interesting choice of words.

Sounds to me like someone trying to be especially delicate and inoffensive. Sometimes saying "he was a Jew" can strike the ear as a bit stark.

Regardless, a cursory glance at that entry shows a clear description of his Jewishness.

162 WrathofG-d  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:02:07pm

Truth is....no matter how they are going to rebuild it....they just need to do so already!

Either way, I vote for bigger and better. (definitely higher than the one they are building in Dubai)

163 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:02:18pm

re: #149 Athos

I think you are thinking of Ramzi Yousef. But there were other Iraqi connections to the first WTC bombing as well that were never addressed.

It's clear looking at history that responding to state sponsored terrorism or non-state connected terrorism as a purely criminal matter does little to deter future terror attacks.

No, no, no. Barack Obama has assured us that the 1993 WTC attack was dealt with so thoroughly and effectively by our criminal justice system that not only are all of the conspirators now in jail, but the six people who died are in a better place, and the towers are now immune from attack.

How could you improve on that?

164 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:02:34pm

re: #158 Cygnus

And
there should be 19 urinals for each one of the terrorists. Put each
terrorist's name in a very strategic spot in each urinal.

Sexist! Women would want to piss on the terrorists too!

165 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:02:40pm

re: #140 alegrias

There is one which i saw in a chagall exhibition.
It was a very small painting, perhaps 8 x 6.
It was called ' The Yellow Calf'.
It was the interior of one of these poor farmers' houses, with just a table, bench, dresser - and under the table was this tiny yellow calf ...

If I could have, I would have stolen that painting!

166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:02:54pm

The current "Ground Zero rebuilding strategy" is not the New York I saw standing beside Rudy and the firefighters. I thought something had changed in the fibre of that community.

167 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:03:09pm

re: #158 Cygnus

And there should be 19 urinals for each one of the terrorists. Put each terrorist's name in a very strategic spot in each urinal.

Now just how am I supposed to crap in a urinal?

168 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:16pm

re: #167 MajorPribluda

Now just how am I supposed to crap in a urinal?

There was a whole South park episode about that - and it was about the 9/11 troothers, too!

169 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:20pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

One would think that one as 'brilliant' as Barry would see the current results in Iraq and examine them in the impact that it will have on al-Qaeda....that rather than being 'blessed' by Allah, they had their butts handed to them losing tens of thousands in the process, that when they had their chance to take on the US military they failed in every sense. They made Iraq the central front and then lost that front and battlespace. Not only does it weaken their ability to recruit new jihadists, but it also cleared the space of a lot of spodleydopes who would have done their havoc someplace else.

170 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:24pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

violence = violins

Rotating title?

Naw.
Julia Roberts' line from Notting Hill.
"Happiness isn't happiness without a violin-playing goat."

171 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:28pm

re: #134 Hard Right

I thought it was-"Suck up to Tyrants"-especially Chinese ones?

Actually, it's the same as every other business, "Make Money." All other mission statements are either subordinate to or in support of that primary one. So if that means bending over and taking it up the butt from China, then they will do that for as long they want to make money in China. They know that the grumbling about their 'failures' will only hit them a little in the pocketbook, much less than the amount they will make by staying in China and following China's rules, because most people couldn't care less about it.

172 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:31pm

re: #145 Son of the Black Dog

And this morning the Fox newsreader said the bombings had been carried out by "British extremists". No mention of any affiliation with the ROP.

Ar*eholes!
Yes, they were Brits - but first and foremost they were ROPers, jihadists.
Gawd - speak of twisitng history!

173 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:46pm

re: #168 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

There was a whole South park episode about that - and it was about the 9/11 troothers, too!

Hmmm. Sounds like a research project coming up.

174 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:04:48pm

re: #150 alegrias

Correction, he was NOT Polish, like Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof, but a Belarussian Russian guy from Vitebsk

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The village in Fiddler On The Roof was in Russia, not Poland.

175 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:05:21pm

re: #160 Occasional Reader

And how was the fiddler affixed firmly to the roof?

Orthopoxy.

*smoke and flames from my keyboard*

176 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:05:21pm

re: #151 Athos

They're looking at the end of 2008 to have the building decontaminated and possibly demolished by then. More realistically? 1Q 2009.

177 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:05:43pm

re: #5 Slumbering Behemoth

I still like Penn & Teller's suggestion [NSFW]

"S-B" -

I generally agree, perhaps with a twist. Rebuild as the "Tri-Towers" with the one in the middle supporting (or Being) the new HDTV Transmission antenna, noticeably taller than the other two and GRAPHICALLY FLIP THEM "THE BIRD!"

-S-

178 lifeofthemind  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:05:54pm

My 2¢'s worth. Build Three towers two of 100 stories each, one of 120.
First the Tower of Justice and Liberty, for government and legal tenants.
Second the Tower of Hope and Wisdom, with a Hospital and University.
Third the Tower of Freedom and Commerce, for entrepreneurs and artists.

Make the first 40 stories residential. Accept no delays and get it built!

179 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:05:59pm

re: #163 MajorPribluda

I guess for Barry, history works better when you ignore those things that you don't want to deal with......

180 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:06:31pm

Minor Chagall connection.

Varian Fry, the US journalist who helped rescue Chagall from Europe along with dozens of other Jews, lived in the town over from where we lived and recently had a street named after him.

181 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:06:31pm

re: #171 CyanSnowHawk

Actually, it's the same as every other business, "Make Money." All other mission statements are either subordinate to or in support of that primary one. So if that means bending over and taking it up the butt from China, then they will do that for as long they want to make money in China. They know that the grumbling about their 'failures' will only hit them a little in the pocketbook, much less than the amount they will make by staying in China and following China's rules, because most people couldn't care less about it.

We'll see how they feel when China takes over all of their businesses and boots "executives" they don arrest out of the country. It won't happen too soon, but since China wants to do what Japan tried to do in WWII, it will happen.

182 ted  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:06:34pm

As a native New Yorker this is shameful but no surprise when your "leaders" are Clinton, Schumer, Spitzer, Bloomberg, Barron, etc. This is what you get when you elect liberal Dhimmicrat schmucks. To get an idea what the U.S. will be under Obama, look at the Ground Zero mess.

183 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:07:05pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

,

Don't tell Obama. He's planned his whole terrorism policy on the way we handled the 1993 WTC bombing.

Because that worked so well.

(Is it useless for an atheist to cry out, "God help us?")

184 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:07:09pm

re: #161 Cognito

Sounds to me like someone trying to be especially delicate and inoffensive. Sometimes saying "he was a Jew" can strike the ear as a bit stark.

Regardless, a cursory glance at that entry shows a clear description of his Jewishness.

Don't get me wrong.

I wasn't fishing for bias or anything.

It's just something that stands out in Jewish European history - and touches on Jewish American history.

The idea that Joos weren't "from" their home countries, they were Joos.

US Immigration laws in the early 20th century used this as an advantage (for the US) and a disadvantage for the Eastern European Joo.

Just an observation.

I'm not THAT hyper-sensitive.

185 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:07:10pm

re: #158 Cygnus

Have some as ladies' facilities - with the anmes strategically placed.
Atta comes to mind, who couldn't even bring himself to shake ahnds with a woman ...

186 paradox42  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:07:13pm

re: #109 Blue Falcon

The memorial should have 2,974 life size statues of the people who died with a small plaque at each individuals feet. It is absolutely shameful that not a single modern memorial these days has the courage to remember people as individuals instead of some abstract BS art concept. It's a symptom of moral cowardice in the art and design community. Walking into a memorial that literally shows all those souls lost frozen in time would really get the enormity of what happened across.

They have something like this in Yad Vashem in Israel. The room representing the children who were murdered in the Holocaust uses mirrors and candles to create an endless sea of lights where each point of light represents one child.

It is extremely effective and powerful to say the least.

187 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:07:32pm

re: #169 Athos,

Yes, but admitting that doesn't help get him elected. Casting that as a failure, and then hearkening back to Clinton's "successes" in the '90's makes him (BHO) appear to be the valid successor.

It's not about security. It is about the election.

188 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:09:28pm

re: #145 Son of the Black Dog

And this morning the Fox newsreader said the bombings had been carried out by "British extremists". No mention of any affiliation with the ROP.

Ahhhh, yes...

The Dread British Extremist! Capable of chopping down trees with his extended pinkie finger, this is a man to be fear-ed.

189 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:09:40pm

re: #176 lawhawk

Unbelievable.

And with anything like this, I think you are probably right with more slippage in the dates. Well, I'm going to be there next week.

190 Dad O' Blondes  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:09:47pm

It took them about 18 months to construct the Empire State Building.

What's been going on the past 6+ years at Ground Zero is a national embarrassment.

.

191 richb313  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:09:47pm

I was in Tiawan when the Towers Fell working to inspect recently laid Submarine Fiberoptic Cable (Underwater Telephone Cable). What I wanted then, and still want now is to re-build the exact same structures that were knocked down. Better engineered ofcourse but identical in outward appearance. If someone damaged or destroyed them again I would want the Towere to be re-built exactly as before. This would send a stronger message than anything else we could do.

I really don't care about the sensitivities of any involved, a greater principle is involved here which can best be summed up by one of the early battle Flags of this country which said it best "Don't Tread on Me". I want to rub thier collective noses in it. I want them to know you can knock us down but we will always get up. I do not get to make that decision however. When we take too much care to not offend someone we offend everyone.

192 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:09:58pm

re: #184 Ben Hur

I wasn't fishing for bias

Them's good eatin'.

193 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:10:15pm

re: #158 Cygnus

And there should be 19 urinals for each one of the terrorists. Put each terrorist's name in a very strategic spot in each urinal.

FYI ... as an example of the technology:
The Jane Fonda Urinal Target (#1)
The Jane Fonda urinal target (#2)

194 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:10:28pm

From Medved.

Coming to a classroom near you.

Yes We Can
A Biography of Barack Obama

Feiwel & Friends
Published: June 2008
Grade Range: 3 to 6
Age Range: 8 to 12

ISBN: 978-0-312-53709-8
ISBN-10: 0-312-53709-3
Middle-Grade Nonfiction
Trim: 5 3/16 x 7 5/8 inches
224 pages, Includes 30 b&w photos thorughout

195 Bogeyfre  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:10:33pm

re: #63 Render

All this Tower stuff is the same to me as the border fence thing.

STFU and build it. Anything else is an excuse.

NOW
WHAT,
R

I totally agree......

196 lifeofthemind  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:11:39pm

#178 lifeofthemind 7/07/2008 12:05:54 pm PDT
My 2¢'s worth. Build Three towers two of 100 stories each, one of 120.
First the Tower of Justice and Liberty, for government and legal tenants.
Second the Tower of Hope and Wisdom, with a Hospital and University.
Third the Tower of Freedom and Commerce, for entrepreneurs and artists.

Make the first 40 stories residential. Accept no delays and get it built!

197 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:11:48pm

The question for Obama is answered.

Boxers or Briefs?

Neither.

198 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:12:02pm

re: #160 Occasional Reader

And how was the fiddler affixed firmly to the roof?

Orthopoxy.

* * *
Actually, Chagall was affixed to the USA! We gave him asylum per Wikipedia...

"...during World War II and the deportation of Jews, the Chagalls fled Paris, seeking asylum at Villa Air-Bel in Marseille, where the American journalist Varian Fry assisted in their escape from France through Spain and Portugal. In 1941, the Chagalls settled in the United States of America...."

Though he returned to FWance postwar.

199 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:12:04pm

If it wasn't for the war in Iraq.......

200 lifeofthemind  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:12:35pm

Sorry folks, a garment malfunction or something

201 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:12:47pm

re: #194 jcm,

They've really pulled out all the stops for the Obamessiah's Cult of Personality. What are they going to do if he loses? Take all their marbles and rejoin the Mothership?

202 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:12:48pm

re: #187 Iron Fist

Just as it's not about the country, but the election. Party first and all that.

Without the cover from the MSM and the effects of non-stop academic indoctrination, Bob Barr would be polling higher than Barry given that nitwits policies. I'm beginning to think that the DNC has the gold standard of teflon coatings.

203 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:13:03pm

re: #188 MajorPribluda

Ahhhh, yes...

The Dread British Extremist! Capable of chopping down trees with his extended pinkie finger, this is a man to be fear-ed.

Well - what annoyed not just the Londoners but all of us more than anything was the totally OTT reaction of the NuLab government in regard to anti-terror laws, most of which, it now turns out, are used not to spy on jihadists alone, but on normal citizens as well.

They all said that we managed to live with the IRA bombs for well over 20 years without such measures - but alas, that was when Maggie held the reins of power ...

204 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:14:03pm

I've always been partial to this plan:

[Link: radio.weblogs.com...]

205 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:14:18pm

re: #113 Iron Fist

Making up for having a special logo on July 4th.

They had fireworks on their logo on Friday (I checked).

206 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:07pm

re: #197 jcm

The question for Obama is answered.

Boxers or Briefs?

Neither.

Commando?

207 lifeofthemind  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:11pm

re: #204 Mr Spiffy

I've always been partial to this plan:

[Link: radio.weblogs.com...]

Yes, particularly if we move the UN to Governor's Island.

208 Vergeltung  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:14pm

re: #194 jcm

thankfully, not in our school. :)

209 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:16pm

re: #194 jcm

From Medved.

Coming to a classroom near you.

Yes We Can
A Biography of Barack Obama

Feiwel & Friends
Published: June 2008
Grade Range: 3 to 6
Age Range: 8 to 12

ISBN: 978-0-312-53709-8
ISBN-10: 0-312-53709-3
Middle-Grade Nonfiction
Trim: 5 3/16 x 7 5/8 inches
224 pages, Includes 30 b&w photos thorughout

Charles,

This is why LGF needs audio ... and a [bong] button beside the up- and down-ding buttons.

/admittedly, it would get awful noisy in here at times

210 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:20pm

re: #201 Iron Fist

,

They've really pulled out all the stops for the Obamessiah's Cult of Personality. What are they going to do if he loses? Take all their marbles and rejoin the Mothership?

There would be fireworks if that showed up my kids classroom.

211 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:24pm

re: #205 Ward Cleaver

I guess the Stars and Stripes would have been going too far.

212 hazzyday  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:41pm

What do the troofers have to say about a government that can't get it together to construct anything out of tinker toys much less steel?

213 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:15:47pm

re: #206 Ward Cleaver

Commando?

Thong.

214 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:16:21pm

re: #197 jcm

The question for Obama is answered.

Boxers or Briefs?

Neither.

So they could wet their pants and "piss on Obama"?

215 godfrey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:16:34pm

Rebuild the Twin Towers as empty lattices, and light them up from within. Make them one story taller than the originals. Then do all the memorializing on the ground.

Poke the jihad in the eye.

216 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:16:46pm

Chagall? I liked his "Under Siege" movie, but thought his other ones sucked.
/

217 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:16:51pm

re: #201 Iron Fist

,

They've really pulled out all the stops for the Obamessiah's Cult of Personality. What are they going to do if he loses? Take all their marbles and rejoin the Mothership?

* * *
They'll write how McCain cheated~and document it.

Did you see front page story Saturday in WashPost on HOW Mugabe cheated his countrymen to "win" Zimbabwe's election?

Expect a similar treatment for McCain.

218 Vergeltung  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:31pm

re: #203 yma o hyd

Maggie and Ronnie. (sigh). now that's when we had some g*dd*mn leadership in the West!

219 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:33pm

re: #209 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How many of those kids will grab the book just from the title thinking it's a Bob the Builder story......as opposed to Barry the Bonehead.

220 MandyManners  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:36pm

Madrid.

NYC.

London, anyone?

221 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:38pm

re: #209 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Charles,

This is why LGF needs audio ... and a [bong] button beside the up- and down-ding buttons.

/admittedly, it would get awful noisy in here at times

BONG BUTTON!

222 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:43pm

re: #214 Ward Cleaver

So they could wet their pants and "piss on Obama"?

I see a diaper line.
A pic of BHO on the seat.

223 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:43pm

re: #203 yma o hyd

Well - what annoyed not just the Londoners but all of us more than anything was the totally OTT reaction of the NuLab government in regard to anti-terror laws, most of which, it now turns out, are used not to spy on jihadists alone, but on normal citizens as well.

They all said that we managed to live with the IRA bombs for well over 20 years without such measures - but alas, that was when Maggie held the reins of power ...

And as brutal as the IRA was, and as awful as The Troubles were, those guys were pikers compared to what we face now. I don't mean to belittle what folks up north went through, but this is global, and it is winning all over the place--except where allied troops are actually shooting back.

224 Alouette  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:51pm

re: #168 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

There was a whole South park episode about that - and it was about the 9/11 troothers, too!

The Mystery of the Urinal Deuce

225 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:17:57pm

re: #209 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Charles,

This is why LGF needs audio ... and a [bong] button beside the up- and down-ding buttons.

/admittedly, it would get awful noisy in here at times

Add to that the documentary, Black in America, that CNN is running later this month, to give Obama a little boost.

226 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:19:05pm

re: #216 Hard Right

Chagall? I liked his "Under Siege" movie, but thought his other ones sucked.
/

Like I've noted about John McCain: Say what will about him on immigration, Gitmo, whatever, he really took care of business when those terrorists seized Nakitomi Plaza.

227 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:19:20pm

re: #217 alegrias

It's SOP for the left to accuse the center and right to resorting to the tactics that they themselves employ. Somehow, its ok for them to cheat and to cover it by projecting that behavior on their enemies.

How fascist of them.

228 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:19:36pm

re: #224 Alouette

The Mystery of the Urinal Deuce

That was a funny episode.

229 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:19:52pm

BBL

230 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:19:59pm

re: #225 Ward Cleaver

Add to that the documentary, Black in America, that CNN is running later this month, to give Obama a little boost.

Is that the sequel to Black in the USSR?

231 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:20:00pm

re: #205 Ward Cleaver,

Yeah, I checked, too. I meant that they had to do something today to make up for it. Today isn't National Che Day, so they improvised :-)

232 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:20:08pm
233 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:20:56pm

re: #221 Ben Hur

BONG BUTTON!

Hey, Bongs helped us beat the Nazis.

234 yma o hyd  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:21:25pm

re: #218 Vergeltung

Maggie and Ronnie. (sigh). now that's when we had some g*dd*mn leadership in the West!

Yeah - and some proper stiff upper lip!
When the IRA nearly killed her with that bomb at the hotel in Brighton, at their party conference 1984, she did not, as her 'assistants' suggested, go abck home - she stayed and attended the rest of the conference, even though some of her friends and colleagues were killed or horribly wounded.
Iron Maggie ... no wimping out.

235 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:22:02pm

OT - Yet even more dhimmi nuttiness from the Brits:

Boys get detention for refusing to pray to Allah.

Sorry if it seems that we're picking on you Brits, but damn!

236 alegrias  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:22:58pm

re: #231 Iron Fist

,

Yeah, I checked, too. I meant that they had to do something today to make up for it. Today isn't National Che Day, so they improvised :-)

* * *
Oddly enough, few MSM noted the FARC rebels fell for the FAUX CHE Tshirts worn by Colombian military/hostage rescuers!

Che T-shirts, felling leftists every time.

Irony was lost on liberals "reporting" this news. "Che it isn't so!"

237 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:23:00pm

re: #220 MandyManners

7/7 CCTV footage released

238 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:23:09pm

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Hey, Bongs helped us beat the Nazis.

Fascinating!

239 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:23:21pm

re: #181 Hard Right

We'll see how they feel when China takes over all of their businesses and boots "executives" they don arrest out of the country. It won't happen too soon, but since China wants to do what Japan tried to do in WWII, it will happen.

Hard to tell what China will do in the future, we have never seen anything like them before. Giant, mostly agrarian population transitioning into a highly technical developed nation, but with an oppressive, dictatorial, communist, but stable Gov't. that has managed to strong arm every challenge out of the way. I don't think there is an historical precedence for this, and that just screams "wild card."

But in the meantime, someone like Google is taking their money and providing them services. At what point does it pay off/not pay off to continue doing business with them? That's always the question to answer when you are in business.

240 Vergeltung  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:23:36pm

re: #225 Ward Cleaver

Add to that the documentary, Black in America, that CNN is running later this month, to give Obama a little boost.

the MSM will pull out all the stops this time.....

241 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:23:43pm

re: #228 Hard Right

That was a funny episode.

Watching the Kozby Kooks comment on it was almost as funny as the episode itself. First they were cheering, then stunned, then wailing & gnashing their teeth.

Parker & Stone should have gotten some sort of medal for that episode, if not for the Cartoon Wars episode.

242 yochanan  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:24:38pm

they do building a lot better in chicago than in NU YAWK.

THIS WILL BE DONE WELL BEFORE THE WTC SITE AND THEY JUST STARTED IT LAST YEAR.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

243 Cygnus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:24:42pm

re: #164 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Sexist! Women would want to piss on the terrorists too!

But we can't really aim. That would be more fun.

244 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:24:52pm

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Hey, Bongs helped us beat the Nazis.

Well, helped defeat the Japanese Empire if you want to be picky.
/and I do.

245 Iron Fist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:25:09pm

re: #235 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey,

It's hard not to accuse the Brits of surrendering when they keep jumping up and down, waving that white flag, and shouting "We Surrender!" Even Frogistan isn't forcing schoolchildren to pray to the Devil.

246 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:26:12pm

re: #239 CyanSnowHawk

Hard to tell what China will do in the future, we have never seen anything like them before. Giant, mostly agrarian population transitioning into a highly technical developed nation, but with an oppressive, dictatorial, communist, but stable Gov't. that has managed to strong arm every challenge out of the way. I don't think there is an historical precedence for this, and that just screams "wild card."

But in the meantime, someone like Google is taking their money and providing them services. At what point does it pay off/not pay off to continue doing business with them? That's always the question to answer when you are in business.

When our government, in honoring its commitment to our security, imposes *breathtaking* penalties for aiding that Communist hellhole in its most egregious violations. Helping them to track down dissidents should be squelched pronto. So should cooperating on their ballistic missile program.

sigh.

247 Vergeltung  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:26:28pm

re: #234 yma o hyd

Yeah - and some proper stiff upper lip!
When the IRA nearly killed her with that bomb at the hotel in Brighton, at their party conference 1984, she did not, as her 'assistants' suggested, go abck home - she stayed and attended the rest of the conference, even though some of her friends and colleagues were killed or horribly wounded.
Iron Maggie ... no wimping out.

love that woman. really do. I wish she and Ron were our leaders forever...

248 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:26:40pm

re: #244 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Well, helped defeat the Japanese Empire if you want to be picky.
/and I do.

Was it "over" when the Germans bogarted our stash at Pearl Harbor? Hell, no!

249 Boston Patriot  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:27:09pm

To (almost) paraphrase Peter Tosh:

"PRIVATIZE IT, YEAH...."

The State never gets anything done. They're a bunch of power-lusting idiots. If the PO sold the site to private interests after the clean-up was done, we'd have a beautiful skyscraper with a shining memorial which respected and celebrated the glory of the great capitalists, firefighters, policemen and citizens who lost their lives that day.

Now we leave it up to the politicians, and look what happens. Almost seven years later, and there's still a big hole and a bunch of bickering.

I want to wretch right now.

250 Vergeltung  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:27:38pm

re: #235 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

OT - Yet even more dhimmi nuttiness from the Brits:
Boys get detention for refusing to pray to Allah.
Sorry if it seems that we're picking on you Brits, but damn!

that is completely outrageous....can that really be true? it what was once a free Western democracy?!?!

251 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:27:59pm

Out of here to get stuff done.

252 docremulac  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:28:39pm

A plane strike proof world trade center needs to be rebuilt exactly the way it was except for an extra floor.

The extra floor needs to be dedicated to the people who defeated Al Qaeda, the Bathists, the Taliban and any other group of muslim huns who were stupid enough to take up arms against free men, and specifically, free American men.

No need to re-name it.

It's the World Trade Center.

253 Cygnus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:29:26pm

re: #201 Iron Fist

,

They've really pulled out all the stops for the Obamessiah's Cult of Personality. What are they going to do if he loses? Take all their marbles and rejoin the Mothership?

They can't take their marbles with them because they lost those a long time ago.

254 MajorPribluda  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:30:04pm

I couldn't tell from the WTC 2011 plans whether the building numbers were to be re-used or not. I would prefer not.

255 MandyManners  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:31:20pm

re: #235 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

256 bosforus  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:31:40pm

WTC designer finally identified.
[Link: www.theonion.com...]
:)

257 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:31:41pm

I thought the delay was due to our American moonbat archeologists' inability to do the calculus necessary to design buildings in the shape of a 200 story high crescent. Project managers have been interviewing Chinese architects . . .

258 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:33:05pm

ahem . . . that should be "architects."

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:37:31pm

OT...Got an extra 5 miles a gallon today.

260 Athos  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:37:42pm

re: #257 American Jewess In Jerusalem

No need to, the crescent is already incorporated in the Flight 93 Memorial. Doing another one in lower Manhattan would be redundant. Of course, that also didn't stop the attempts to hijack the NYC memorial.

261 jcbunga  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:41:29pm

I miss the towers...I was lucky enough to fit them into a visit in 1996. Took the tour and went all the way to the rooftop observation deck.

I remember how awesome it was to be looking DOWN on the many helicopters buzzy around Manhattan.

I don't care if they stand empty, they should be rebuilt exactly as they were, with modern updates, plus 1-foot.

262 Boston Patriot  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:43:01pm

#252

Just put surface-to-air missles on top. It could protect all of Manhattan, Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Jersey, etc. We have the technology.

If we put 16 of our best missles on top of this building, it would protect not only from air attacks, but also from terrorists trying to float a tug up the East River, etc.

Do anything we need to, uncluding pre-emptive strikes on Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

The World Trade Center is merely a symbol of how we don't have the moral fortitude to unconditionally defend ourselves.

263 yochanan  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:43:56pm

THE DALEYITE CROOKS LET THE CAPITALIST CLASS IN CHICAGO BUILD THINGS.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

264 indythinker  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:45:14pm

Rebuild the twin towers. That would be amazing.

265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:45:31pm

re: #264 indythinker

Agreeance.

266 abolitionist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:50:51pm

re: #62 nikis-knight

[snip] I don't remember which, but one of those, I think, is required under Sharia, iirc.
[snip]

The islamic holy war manual specifies that a slave of allah should have neither his/her face toward Mekkah, nor the hindquarters. Instead, one should arrange oneself a quarter turn from the quibla direction, so as not to offend the creator.

(Or maybe to give the powers that be yet another handy excuse to kill anyone, anywhere, anytime, for anything, or for nothing.)

267 abolitionist  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 12:56:10pm

...for those private natural elimination functions, that is.

268 Hard Right  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:04:47pm

re: #241 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Watching the Kozby Kooks comment on it was almost as funny as the episode itself. First they were cheering, then stunned, then wailing & gnashing their teeth.

Parker & Stone should have gotten some sort of medal for that episode, if not for the Cartoon Wars episode.

Well, they still have the Simpsons and Family Guy to bash Conservatives with.

269 Quintus_Arius  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:07:07pm

From day two: Put'em back up.

270 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:11:03pm

I appreciate your focusing on this Charles, but I've gotta get out of here and do something vigorous, this topic just makes my blood boil.

Nearly seven mother-f*cking years, and still nothing rebuilt! *spit*

Later Lizards.

271 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:20:03pm

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Hey, Bongs helped us beat the Nazis.

Outstanding service record. Why have most people never heard of him?

272 jcm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:22:23pm

re: #271 Ward Cleaver

Outstanding service record. Why have most people never heard of him?

Feh! I knew about him in 3rd grade. But I was reading every aviation book I could my paws on.

273 taylork  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:25:23pm

7 years of nothing is a tribute in itself. It's a tribute to the do nothing, litigious society that the boomers have created for themselves. Congratulations

274 Kalak  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:32:45pm

re: #33 bosforus

The age old clash of engineering vs. creative design.

Is that going to look like the massively expensive "waterfall" they put under the Brooklyn Bridge that looks like a pipe broke near some scaffolding?

275 Render  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:33:54pm

re: #233 Occasional Reader

ummm...

Major Richard Bong fought in the Pacific Theater.

OTHER
WISE,
R

276 Tilly  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:34:28pm

re: #12 white rabbit

One story taller.

That was Trump's idea, and it was perfect.

Trump has an ego the size of Alaska but he can build a building and I have to agree with him too...

Just modernize it a little and update to 21st century safety...

I bet Trump could bring it on time and on budget too...

277 Kalak  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:35:56pm

re: #55 TalkinKamel

Given that the spot is a virtual tomb for those who were crushed and pulverized to death there, and the unreliability of all these supposedly great architects who are supposedly going to come up with these splendid memorials (such as the flight 93 abomination), I've thought for a long time that the area should be treated as "hallowed ground"; maybe put a park, or a simple memorial there, but nothing big for politicians to fight over.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of simply building back the towers, and opening them for business again. . .

If you put in a freaking weepy memorial every time something bad happens somewhere, our cities would be necropolises. Screw that. Cities are for LIFE.

Even in Europe, if a cathedral was blown up, they just rebuilt it. What would London look like if they made every building bombed in the blitz into a "memorial"?

278 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:36:39pm

re: #275 Render

ummm...

Major Richard Bong fought in the Pacific Theater.

OTHER
WISE,
R

Yes, that was noted above.


#271 Ward:

Outstanding service record. Why have most people never heard of him?

"Class, today we'll be learning about Major Bong."

Woo-hoo! Dude! You're the coolest teacher ever!

279 6pat6  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:38:02pm

The United States built several hundred thousand aircraft, several million tanks, howitzers, and Jeeps, and several billion rounds of ammunition to defeat the Axis powers from June 1940 to September 1945. Pearl Harbor was rebuilt in less than three months. In World War II, the United States looked at our enemies from a very weak position to enter a war in, to unambiguous and complete victory...all in LESS time than it's taken so far to TALK about what is going to replace the World Trade Center, much less turn a shovel of dirt towards actual construction! A complex brought down with nine terrorists and two hijacked civilian airliners, killing roughly the same number as died in the Pearl Harbor attack.

Something is seriously WRONG in every manner possible that the new WTC (without the "museum" and PC bullshit, thank you!) has not been completed yet AND new tenants moved in already! THAT would be the fitting monument to the 3,000 people that died in September 11, 2001! Instead, we have what we have now - whiney, snivelly politicians that can't get their collective heads out of each others' asses; plus a population, with its' MTV attention span, saying "Nine-eleven? What's that?"

280 nacazo  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:38:08pm

re: #261 jcbunga

I miss the towers...I was lucky enough to fit them into a visit in 1996. Took the tour and went all the way to the rooftop observation deck.

I remember how awesome it was to be looking DOWN on the many helicopters buzzy around Manhattan.

I don't care if they stand empty, they should be rebuilt exactly as they were, with modern updates, plus 1-foot.

I would second that plus the anti-aircraft batteries on top.

281 6pat6  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:39:17pm

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Show some respect there, Junior! You are speaking of the highest-scoring US Ace in World War II.

282 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:42:22pm

By the way, the clusterf**k over Ground Zero not only highlights the ineptitude of the NYC/NYS government compared to the private sector, but even compared to other government agencies. The repairs to the Pentagon following 9/11 were completed in less than a year.

283 Cognito  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:49:26pm

re: #282 Occasional Reader

By the way, the clusterf**k over Ground Zero not only highlights the ineptitude of the NYC/NYS government compared to the private sector, but even compared to other government agencies. The repairs to the Pentagon following 9/11 were completed in less than a year.

I completely agree about the screwy nature of NY politics, but in fairness -- for what it's worth, in this case -- the Pentagon isn't really a great comparison. In that instance there was no real question as to what the building would look like -- it would look like the rest of itself. In New York, on the other hand, they're having to start from scratch.

Still. It's shameful that the whole thing has become mired in NY muck.

284 Maximu§  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:56:13pm

Lets just have the Saudi's pay 78.94% of the building cost.

285 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:57:08pm

On another subject folks, just read the Fareed Zakaria column in Newsweek regarding Energy Policy. I suggest it to everybody who wnts to get an insight into the "left" mindset on this issue, with a little bit of "Follow the Money." It is all, conservation, renewables, wind, solar with allowances for Nuclear. Well, gee - isn't one of Obama's big backers EXCELON? Stuff that makes you go hmmmm....

-S-

286 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:57:45pm

See y'all tomorrow.

287 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:58:08pm

re: #284 Maximu§

Lets just have the Saudi's pay 78.94% of the building cost.

I'm sure they'd be happy to, on the condition that we name it the "Death To Infidels And Jews Center", or "Islamic Supremacy Building", something along those lines.

288 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:58:29pm

re: #209 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Charles,

This is why LGF needs audio ... and a [bong] button beside the up- and down-ding buttons.

/admittedly, it would get awful noisy in here at times

A bong button?

Open up the winda'
let some air into this room...

289 sultan_knish  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:07:45pm

Forget Patterson, the best bet is to hope the delays drag on and Rudy runs for Governor and wins.

290 UserZero  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:08:59pm

For some of us, this is old news and resolved in such an obvious way:

[Link: www.twintowersalliance.com...]

291 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:15:49pm

re: #271 Ward Cleaver

Outstanding service record. Why have most people never heard of him?

Never heard of the Bong recreational area in Wisconsin. Was going to be used as an airfieled but it never materialized. Now it has great mountain biking. I actually think it may be off exit 420 or I am just thinking of a local t-shirt I have seen.

292 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:16:23pm

re: #291 Creeping Eruption

Never heard of the Bong recreational area in Wisconsin. ? Was going to be used as an airfieled but it never materialized. Now it has great mountain biking. I actually think it may be off exit 420 or I am just thinking of a local t-shirt I have seen.

293 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:17:30pm
294 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:22:42pm

Major Dick Bong?

I read several years back about a general contractor (GC) that put in a very low bid and a very short timetable to rebuild a major highway damaged in an earthquake in California. The board reviewing the bids called in the company and asked them why their bid was so low and how they thought they could get the work done so fast. Their bid had strings. I don't remember the exact details, but they were something like this:

Change orders that took over three days to complete—the GC would be granted an additional $100K per day until the change was finished.

Inspectors would show up within 18 hours of a requested inspection. If the inspector didn't show within 18 hours, the GC would be given $100K for wasted time. After 36 hrs. the GC would get an additional $100K and be allowed to continue work without an inspection.

I think there were some provisions for getting traffic and such rerouted in a timely way and such.

If the project was completed 6 months ahead of schedule, The top man for each of the contracting/sub-contracting firms got $1M for himself. His immediate subordinates would get $250K for themselves. Each contractor/sub-contractor company would also get $1M+ to divide equally among their people working on the job.

If the project was completed only 3 months ahead of schedule, all the above bonuses would be cut in half.

If I remember correctly, the job was done about 9 months ahead of schedule and under budget. And they did it by far cheaper and faster than the predictions of all the other companies who bid.

I think this story was in an old Reader's Digest.

295 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:25:22pm

re: #294 David IV of Georgia

What is the connection with Major Bong? Was he the GC in that story?

296 mattm  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 2:53:15pm

Re build, basically as before. Maybe make them the tallest in the world.

Do some memorial/museum thing outside and in both towers on the floor closest to the impact. Have in addtion to the names of people killed in the respective towers some artifacts from that day. Twisted steel, papers that floated out of broken windows, etc.

297 jimmyk  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 3:03:49pm

Agreed about the incompetence of NYC/NYS/Port Authority. But I don't support the idea of rebuilding the twin towers. It was never a good design, it was typical 1970s urban renewal style, all wrong for Manhattan. I say just give or sell the 16 acres to the highest non-Arab bidder, subject to Silverstein's claims on the site, and to reopening Greenwich Ave., and let the private sector develop it.

298 Render  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 3:06:23pm

re: #278 Occasional Reader

Sorry OR, I'm slower than usual today.

OUCH,
R

299 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 3:21:04pm

re: #295 Creeping Eruption

What is the connection with Major Bong? Was he the GC in that story?

Sorry. Two unrelated comments in one post.

I just thought his name was funny, like my cousin's rank and name: Major Cannon.

300 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 4:05:31pm
301 AbeReason  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 4:37:48pm

Ann Coulter said it best, after 9/11 -- we should "build 'em back" -- rebuild the Twin Towers looking like they did originally.

302 Egfrow  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 5:21:03pm

With our ideological enemies building new sky scrapers id the Middle East and China 3 times the size of the Twin WTC towers and realizing that the original Twin Towers were built in less than 4 years. We can't even build one building half the size of one of these building in 8 years. This is sad!

303 Korla Pundit  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 5:47:04pm

I'll never forgive this city's or state's "leaders" if they don't show the spine to give us back what terrorists took away:

[Link: korlapundit.blogspot.com...]

304 Bill Dalasio  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 5:47:14pm

I've always had some thoughts on rebuilding the towers. A free enterprise attempt might actually realize my vision.

305 Dreadnaught  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 6:50:07pm

Random comment from a NYer who was downtown that day — I personally think any ideas of re-making the WTC as it was are horrific. There are many people who find the idea of seeing those buildings again the closest thing out there to a living nightmare.

Which isn't to say that I like (or even totally understand) what's happening right now at the site. Just my two cents on the link Charles posted.

306 Spiny Norman  Mon, Jul 7, 2008 9:47:43pm

Rebuild them as they were, but taller and stronger. Make them the tallest buildings in the world again.

307 bill shears  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:33:48am

Iron Fist is on the mark. They should rebuild the towers from the original plans, with modern improvements as needed, adding a floor or two to the top, with beacons as memorials.


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