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Science: The Ringed Giant

Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 6:11:50 pm PDT

The Cassini-Huygens spacecraft has exceeded the wildest dreams of its creators at the Discovery Institute, sending back spectacular photographs like this one—a natural color image of Saturn taken from a distance of about 900,000 miles.

(Oops. Did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant “NASA.”)

Cassini is now starting a new chapter in its amazingly trouble-free mission: Cassini-Huygens: News.

PASADENA, Calif.-NASA’s Cassini mission is closing one chapter of its journey at Saturn and embarking on a new one with a two-year mission that will address new questions and bring it closer to two of its most intriguing targets-Titan and Enceladus.

On June 30, Cassini completes its four-year prime mission and begins its extended mission, which was approved in April of this year.

Among other things, Cassini revealed the Earth-like world of Saturn’s moon Titan and showed the potential habitability of another moon, Enceladus. These two worlds are primary targets in the two-year extended mission, dubbed the Cassini Equinox Mission. This time period also will allow for monitoring seasonal effects on Titan and Saturn, exploring new places within Saturn’s magnetosphere, and observing the unique ring geometry of the Saturn equinox in August of 2009 when sunlight will pass directly through the plane of the rings.

“We’ve had a wonderful mission and a very eventful one in terms of the scientific discoveries we’ve made, and yet an uneventful one when it comes to the spacecraft behaving so well,” said Bob Mitchell, Cassini program manager at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. “We are incredibly proud to have completed all of the objectives we set out to accomplish when we launched. We answered old questions and raised quite a few new ones and so our journey continues.”

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218 comments

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1 Muadib  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:13:00pm

Evolution!

2 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:13:10pm

What a spectacular photo- I love that you can see a shadow of one of the moons.

3 Sizzlack  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:15:47pm

Whoa...kind of looks like a giant yoyo.

4 yochanan  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:15:57pm

WOW!

5 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:16:09pm

Someone left Saturn out in the Sun too long, it's all faded.

6 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:16:09pm

Beautiful, just beautiful. You GO, NASA!

7 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:16:25pm

Wow, love the faint view of those cloudtops.

Slightly more Gas than Congress

8 shay4l  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:16:58pm

*waiting for muslim countries to orbit a spacecraft. Not holding my breath*

9 Roentgen  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:18:12pm

Space: The final frontier.

10 faraway  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:19:29pm

Just looks like a random blob of dust to me.

11 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:20:07pm

Charles: are you trying to Googlebomb DI? You give them a lot of mentions in your posts. I'm sure they appreciate the help.
/

I do love the Saturn photos; the restrained palette is incredible. I have a whole folder of them for my desktop rotation. Some day I hope to go visit in person, on one side of the grave or the other!

12 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:20:13pm

Job 38:4 (Amplified Bible)
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Declare to Me, if you have and know understanding.

Zechariah 12:1 (Amplified Bible)
THE BURDEN or oracle (the thing to be lifted up) of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:

Proverbs 25:2 (Amplified Bible)
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a thing.

13 shay4l  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:20:42pm

One thing jumped out at me- "earth-like world Titan". How earth-like is it? Does the frozen methane ocean have a nice beach?

14 Mars Needs Neocons  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:21:36pm

Someone takes offense in 5...4...3...

15 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:21:48pm

Job 26:7

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
16 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:00pm

re: #13 shay4l

One thing jumped out at me- "earth-like world Titan". How earth-like is it? Does the frozen methane ocean have a nice beach?

Sure if you consider CO2 sand "nice."

17 Hucbald  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:10pm

I'm a believer, and science doesn't scare me. In fact, I love stuff like this.

God is great.

18 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:13pm

re: #5 CyanSnowHawk

Someone left Saturn out in the Sun too long, it's all faded.

/Globull warming?

19 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:18pm

Photoshop.

20 sadhu  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:27pm

Science!


--- Thomas Dolby

21 shay4l  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:31pm

re: #16 jcm

Sure if you consider CO2 sand "nice."

Can I put a blanket and umbrella on it?

22 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:43pm

you can't make this stuff up!

23 opnion  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:50pm

re: #8 shay4l

*waiting for muslim countries to orbit a spacecraft. Not holding my breath*


I can not imagine. I don't want to imagine. They would be screaming Allah Akbar & probably Death to America.

24 Cartman  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:22:55pm

Saturn is a really awe-inspiring phenom. Aren't there supposed to be violent ionic "storms" (or something of that nature) in it's atmosphere? Or is that Jupiter?

The really good news is that Cassini has displelled the rumors that the alien mothership is hiding behind the rings. ;)

25 Blackacre  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:00pm

Excellent. Thanks for posting this, Charles.

26 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:12pm

Amazing - Hats off to those JPL fellers. Reminds me of a baby just opening their eyes and trying to figure out the mobile hanging over the crib.

27 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:14pm

re: #18 Bob in Breckenridge

/Globull warming?

We sent a probe with an RTG, it warming the place up.

28 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:17pm

re: #21 shay4l

Can I put a blanket and umbrella on it?

It would make for some nice cold, fizzy drinks!

29 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:19pm

That's just beautiful!

It's truly amazing what the Discovery Institute is doing these days.

Oops! Did I say Discovery Institute? I meant NASA.

Charles - I laugh out loud every time you do that.

30 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:34pm

re: #13 shay4l

One thing jumped out at me- "earth-like world Titan". How earth-like is it? Does the frozen methane ocean have a nice beach?

Is there a Starbucks?

31 Shug  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:23:37pm

saturn is similar to Barack Obama

Both are Way out there

Both are Larger than life, yet very low in density due to being largely filled with gas

32 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:06pm

re: #12 jcm

Job 38:4 (Amplified Bible)
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Declare to Me, if you have and know understanding.

Zechariah 12:1 (Amplified Bible)
THE BURDEN or oracle (the thing to be lifted up) of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:

Proverbs 25:2 (Amplified Bible)
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a thing.

Is the amplified Bible for the hearing impaired?

33 Dave Surls  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:07pm

I don't know if God made it, or if it's all just random chance...but the universe is full of way cool stuff.

34 freetoken  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:16pm

re: #13 shay4l

Yeah, that struck me too. Titan doesn't strike me as "Earth-like." Still, it would be a neat place to visit.

35 SayeretMatkal  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:18pm

Wonderful photographs and a very interesting article.

To bad you had to be a smart*** about it, Charles.

36 ted  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:33pm

3,549,433,997,008,222th holiest site in Islam.

37 Cognito  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:38pm
(Oops. Did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant “NASA.”)

What's up, Charles?

Being right should be enough, but apparently it's not. I had literally never heard of the 'Discovery Institute' until I came here. Now it's all Discovery, all the time. If their ideas are worth such space and time, maybe it's worth having one of their representatives come on and defend them. If their ideas are silly on their face, then they don't require so much (ad nauseum) attention.

So let's have a smackdown and move on. Or let's laugh it off and move on. But this in-between, hovering sarcasm -- "Did I say Discovery? Oops!" -- is getting a bit weird.

38 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:40pm

re: #31 Shug

saturn is similar to Barack Obama

Both are Way out there

Both are Larger than life, yet very low in density due to being largely filled with gas

Ding! heh.

39 Paul  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:47pm

Beautiful and lots of detail. I wonder what our night sky would look like if the Earth had rings instead of a single moon.

40 faraway  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:24:59pm

If you look closely at the small dot in the center and rotate it 33.7° it reads:

John 3:16

41 shay4l  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:25:15pm

re: #28 hillbilly geek

It would make for some nice cold, fizzy drinks!

heh, my wife likes umbrella drinks

Here's a frozen methane colada, Dear...

42 FredWM  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:25:32pm

Take it all in now. When Obama is president NASA funding will be cut by 70 percent to finance universal pre-K.

43 Shug  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:25:35pm
a natural color image of Saturn taken from a distance of about 900,000 miles

Wow. Compare the photos the lunar astronauts snapped of the earth from 250,000 miles away. The earth was tiny

Saturn is a big mo fo

44 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:01pm

re: #39 Paul

Beautiful and lots of detail. I wonder what our night sky would look like if the Earth had rings instead of a single moon.

But what would chairs look like if our knees bent the other way?

45 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:15pm

re: #31 Shug

saturn is similar to Barack Obama

Both are Way out there

Both are Larger than life, yet very low in density due to being largely filled with gas

Both of them are photographed with rings around them.

46 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:24pm

re: #41 shay4l

heh, my wife likes umbrella drinks

Here's a frozen methane colada, Dear...

And I thought cheap beer played hell with my digestive tract.

47 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:28pm

re: #26 MacGregor

Amazing - Hats off to those JPL fellers. Reminds me of a baby just opening their eyes and trying to figure out the mobile hanging over the crib.

JPL does amazing stuff.

Spirit and Opportunity the first estimate was 90 days of operation.
The are on days 1574 & 1579.

48 Muadib  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:39pm

re: #37 Cognito

?

49 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:49pm

re: #43 Shug

long, long lens.

50 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:26:53pm

re: #31 Shug

saturn is similar to Barack Obama

Both are Way out there

Both are Larger than life, yet very low in density due to being largely filled with gas

Insert Uranus joke here...

51 Cybrludite  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:27:19pm

"Cassini is now starting a new chapter in its amazingly trouble-free mission"

Easy there, chief, or you'll jinx them!

52 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:27:20pm
Among other things, Cassini revealed the Earth-like world of Saturn’s moon Titan and showed the potential habitability of another moon, Enceladus.


I've been thinking of relocating.

53 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:27:44pm

re: #50 Bob in Breckenridge

Insert Uranus

Two words that just shouldn't go together.

54 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:27:54pm

re: #32 Bob in Breckenridge

Is the amplified Bible for the hearing impaired?

No, it contains more context for the original languages.

The Amplified Bible was the first Bible project of The Lockman Foundation. It attempts to take both word meaning and context into account in order to accurately translate the original text from one language into another. The Amplified Bible does this through the use of explanatory alternate readings and amplifications to assist the reader in understanding what Scripture really says. Multiple English word equivalents to each key Hebrew and Greek word clarify and amplify meanings that may otherwise have been concealed by the traditional translation method. The Amplified Bible present on the Bible Gateway matches the 1987 printing.
55 shay4l  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:28:13pm

re: #38 hillbilly geek

Ding! heh.

Agree! Dinged up #31 Shug- very clever

56 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:28:14pm

re: #47 jcm

Yes, just incredible - I hear the batteries were supposed to run out long ago.

57 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:28:48pm

Speaking of The Discovery Institute... NRO gave them a platform today.

My favorite part; after indignantly denying that ID has anything to do with religion - it's just good, plain, "skeptical" science, you know - the author, with no apparent sense of self-contradiction, writes:


Facts have implications. If it really is a “fact” that the evolution of life was an unplanned process of chance and necessity (as Neo-Darwinism asserts), then that fact has consequences for how we view life. It does not lead necessarily to Richard Dawkins’s militant atheism, but it certainly makes less plausible the idea of a God who intentionally directs the development of life toward a specific end.



Oh... so this *is* about promoting religion. Whoops.

And then writes:

In a Darwinian worldview, even God himself cannot know how evolution will turn out

Which chapter did Darwin put that in?

58 ted  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:28:52pm

re: #37 Cognito

Wow. Aren't we touchy.

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:28:56pm

re: #37 Cognito

Ben Stein designed that satellite.

60 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:29:04pm
“We’ve had a wonderful mission and a very eventful one in terms of the scientific discoveries we’ve made, and yet an uneventful one when it comes to the spacecraft behaving so well,” said Bob Mitchell, Cassini program manager at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. “We are incredibly proud to have completed all of the objectives we set out to accomplish when we launched."

Dilbert done good!

61 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:29:49pm

re: #54 jcm

I always thought so ;-)

62 opnion  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:29:52pm

re: #39 Paul

Beautiful and lots of detail. I wonder what our night sky would look like if the Earth had rings instead of a single moon.


Ok , help me out & this is not being a smart ass.
Aren't the Rings of Saturn ice crystals. Are you saying that if the Earth had two moons that it might look like Saturns rings?

63 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:29:58pm

re: #56 MacGregor

Yes, just incredible - I hear the batteries were supposed to run out long ago.

The thought the solar cells would be abraded by sand storms and cover over by dust, they thought the cold would be harder. The solar panels have held up and the winds actually keep them clean of dust.

64 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:30:12pm

re: #57 Occasional Reader

Speaking of The Discovery Institute... NRO gave them a platform today.

My favorite part; after indignantly denying that ID has anything to do with religion - it's just good, plain, "skeptical" science, you know - the author, with no apparent sense of self-contradiction, writes:

Which chapter did Darwin put that in?

Ugh.

65 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:30:18pm

re: #57 Occasional Reader

Nice find.

66 faraway  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:31:22pm

It took NASA to find something that spins faster than Obama.

67 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:31:32pm

Buchanan, Disco Institute, Ron Paul? The "right" needs a nap, perchance to dream.

68 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:32:24pm

anybody got a link to those hexagonal "bolts" on the south pole of one of the Jovian planets?

69 Racer X  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:32:45pm

Nice!

I drove by there today.

JPL - not Saturn.

70 rightymouse  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:32:59pm

Lovely! The universe is always magical and mystical.

But let's not forget that NASA also has scientists like James Hansen. They aren't infallible.

71 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:33:06pm

re: #47 jcm

JPL does amazing stuff.

Spirit and Opportunity the first estimate was 90 days of operation.
The are on days 1574 & 1579.

Good thing they didn't come with a warranty, otherwise they'd be outta commission on day 91.

72 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:33:27pm

nevermind, found it!

73 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:34:06pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Buchanan, Disco Institute, Ron Paul? The "right" needs a nap, perchance to dream.

I'm worried that "the right" will be getting a Big Sleep, not a nap.

74 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:34:14pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Ben Stein designed that satellite.

Speaking of ol' Ben, he was on with Dennis Miller.

75 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:34:30pm

re: #57 Occasional Reader

Time and again, scientists have shown themselves just as capable of being blinded by fanaticism, prejudice, and error as anyone else. Perhaps the most egregious example in American history was the eugenics movement, the ill-considered crusade to breed better human beings.


Not this crap again.

76 Racer X  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:34:36pm

re: #37 Cognito

So let's have a smackdown and move on. Or let's laugh it off and move on. But this in-between, hovering sarcasm -- "Did I say Discovery? Oops!" -- is getting a bit weird.


The natural evolution of the Snarkosaurus-Rex.

77 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:36:20pm

re: #73 Occasional Reader

Nah, the "right" isn't dead but "conservatives" need some time to reflect. The Obama presidency is going to be painful and self defeating. It should give them some time to reflect.

78 Carridine  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:36:31pm
We answered old questions and raised quite a few new ones and so our journey continues...

Disco Insta-Coots? THIS is the reality! Even if God revealed EVERYTHING KNOWABLE at this moment, we'd learn about it and discover more unknowns, and would act to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization...

Knowledge, ID, is NOT FIXED... it grows, lives, excretes no-longer-truisms...

79 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:39:52pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

Nah, the "right" isn't dead but "conservatives" need some time to reflect. The Obama presidency is going to be painful and self defeating. It should give them some time to reflect.

I'm still betting there will not be an Obama presidency.

I also think that by the end of this year, benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude will be under $100 per barrel.

Remember where you heard it. (Unless they don't come true, in which case please forget.)

80 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:40:36pm

re: #63 jcm

That is a cool fact. I can't help learning something new every time I come here.

81 abolitionist  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:42:08pm

Saturn didn't look quite like that in the first telescope I made, but it was just as pretty.

82 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:43:38pm

re: #78 Carridine

Knowledge, ID, is NOT FIXED... it grows, lives, excretes no-longer-truisms...


Knowlege is full of... ? Well said.

83 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:44:17pm

re: #81 abolitionist

Saturn didn't look quite like that in the first telescope I made, but it was just as pretty.

Saturn? My first spent it's time focused on the neighbors swimming pool and the girls....
/

84 Cartman  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:45:19pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Buchanan, Disco Institute, Ron Paul? The "right" needs a nap, perchance to dream.


How many times do some of us have to address this? Over and over again? These people/institutions are NOT reflective of the mainstream conservative movement. No matter how much some of you guys would like to see "the right" implode in favor of a much more socially liberal alternative, it just ain't gonna happen. Geez, there sure is a whole lotta lumpin' in goin' on around here.

85 EC Marm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:48:14pm

re: #79 Occasional Reader

I'm still betting there will not be an Obama presidency.

I also think that by the end of this year, benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude will be under $100 per barrel.

Remember where you heard it. (Unless they don't come true, in which case please forget.)


I'll go out on the limb with you on both items. The Dems are trying to figure out, after winning the mid-term elections and watching everything disintegrate and their approval ratings fall through the floor, how they can possibly sell themselves to the American public with a straight face.
The run-up in oil prices is very much related to some very smart people figuring out what would be the natural consequence of an Obama Presidency and bidding the price up. Once that becomes a lot less evident, watch the price tumble.
btw: I was watching the Dems falling all over themselves today on CSPAN, proposing drilling in ANWAR, wind turbines in the mid-west, drilling off-shore and a ton of stuff they wouldn't have dared mention six months ago. I think they're running scared.
But I've been wrong before.

86 hillbilly geek  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:51:02pm

re: #85 EC Marm
From your mouth to You-Know-Who's ear!
Of course, if didn't think He really was sovereign, I'd be more depressed than I am!

87 DeathtotheSwiss  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:53:43pm

re: #8 shay4l

*waiting for muslim countries to orbit a spacecraft. Not holding my breath*

Look at Dubai, they are the most advanced culture on Earth.

88 Macker  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:55:55pm

re: #42 FredWM

Take it all in now. When Obama is president NASA funding will be cut by 70 percent to finance universal pre-K.

Just like Dhimmi Carter.

89 Purple Prose  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:56:11pm

A Muslim power would never be able to mount a mission like this. Moreover, even if the Ottoman Empire had not become the Sick Man of Europe and had somehow survived and developed the technology to do this, they'd be looking for Allah or Mohammed spelled out in random space dust of atmospheric phenomena. If the oil-rich Saudis ever launched a probe into space, with the help of British engineers, they'd be looking for the same and another spot to claim as Dar-al-Islam.

This is Western civilization and American technology and power at work here. It's a mission to know and understand. It's exploration. It's science.

No fundamentalist - Islamic or otherwise - will ever understand that.

90 Macker  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:57:21pm

re: #85 EC Marm

I'll go out on the limb with you on both items. The Dems are trying to figure out, after winning the mid-term elections and watching everything disintegrate and their approval ratings fall through the floor, how they can possibly sell themselves to the American public with a straight face.
The run-up in oil prices is very much related to some very smart people figuring out what would be the natural consequence of an Obama Presidency and bidding the price up. Once that becomes a lot less evident, watch the price tumble.
btw: I was watching the Dems falling all over themselves today on CSPAN, proposing drilling in ANWAR, wind turbines in the mid-west, drilling off-shore and a ton of stuff they wouldn't have dared mention six months ago. I think they're running scared.
But I've been wrong before.

And the same thing happened four years ago, when everyone thought Kerry was the greatest thing since canned beer.

91 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:01:00pm

Wow, this new perspective on Saturn is just awesome, so awe inspiring, so magnificent and majestic. Kinda puts us and all our petty grievances into perspective/insignificance.

Now I hope the satellite can last for some photos of Neptune and Uranus. Those should be killer.
-------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
re: #73 Occasional Reader
You suggesting a long dirt nap, eh?

92 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:03:21pm

re: #91 FurryOldGuyJeans

You suggesting a long dirt nap, eh?

Not suggesting; warning. Conservatives need to get our act together.

93 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:03:46pm

re: #37 Cognito

Only "a bit" weird?

Guess I'll have to try harder.

94 jorline  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:05:22pm

re: #40 faraway

If you look closely at the small dot in the center and rotate it 33.7° it reads:

John 3:16

No it doesn't...it clearly says that Paul is dead.

95 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:07:12pm

re: #94 jorline

No it doesn't...it clearly says that Paul is dead.

Nope...
Made in China.

96 jaunte  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:08:11pm

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

97 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:08:24pm

re: #95 jcm

Nope...
Made in China.

No- it says "Killroy was here".

98 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:09:30pm

re: #95 jcm

Nope...
Made in China.

You're both wrong. "Welcome to Saturn, have a nice day."

99 jorline  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:10:37pm

re: #95 jcm

Nope...
Made in China.

LMAO

100 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:11:06pm

Over the past 25 years NASA's planetary exploration work has been exceptional. When it comes to manned spaceflight over the same period of time, their record flat out sucks. I truly hope some of the free market space initiatives bear fruit.

Humanity's very survival depends on it's ability to explore and ultimate colonize the stars.

(Which GOD created in SEVEN days 4,000 years ago)

/Scampers to the exit

101 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:11:09pm

re: #84 Cartman

The fact that these creeps are indulged in "conservative" circles (even in presidential debates) should indicate that there's a serious problem. Also see: Socialists for Obama, Dkos, and the 911 "truth" movement. It's a bad sign.

102 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:12:37pm

re: #98 Occasional Reader

You're both wrong. "Welcome to Saturn, have a nice day."

No probing please.

103 jorline  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:13:33pm

re: #95 jcm

Nope...
Made in China.

Might as well stamp "Made In China" on my butt...they own everything else.

104 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:14:28pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

The fact that these creeps are indulged in "conservative" circles (even in presidential debates) should indicate that there's a serious problem. Also see: Socialists for Obama, Dkos, and the 911 "truth" movement. It's a bad sign.

The loons at the fringe of political movements have always been there; only now with the advent of 24/7 news has the need to fill dead air allowed a wide dissemination of the lunacy, which in turn engenders a certain tinge of legitimacy to said lunacy.

105 jorline  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:15:22pm

re: #97 Sharmuta

No- it says "Killroy was here".

After WWII, where did Killroy go? He was everywhere...then POOF!

Inquiring minds want to know.

106 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:15:24pm

re: #103 jorline

Might as well stamp "Made In China" on my butt...they own everything else.

I seriously try not buy chinese, but damn it's hard. My own copy contracts for factory services in China.

107 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:16:46pm

re: #105 jorline

After WWII, where did Killroy go? He was everywhere...then POOF!

Inquiring minds want to know.

Kilroy came home.

108 patrickafir  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:17:48pm

I have no problem with this sort of space sorcery so long as we can all agree that Saturn is 6,000–7,000 years old, tops.

109 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:21:58pm

re: #108 patrickafir

I have no problem with this sort of space sorcery so long as we can all agree that Saturn is 6,000–7,000 years old, tops.

As long as you help expose the NASA coverup!

110 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:23:04pm
Time and again, scientists have shown themselves just as capable of being blinded by fanaticism, prejudice, and error as anyone else. Perhaps the most egregious example in American history was the eugenics movement, the ill-considered crusade to breed better human beings.

Not this crap again.

Science goes horribly wrong all the time, Killgore. Read a comic book.

111 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:24:41pm

re: #110 Dirk Diggler

Science goes horribly wrong all the time, Killgore. Read a comic book.

Tell me about it.

112 itellu3times  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:27:00pm

Trouble-free?

IIRC, they've had two major problems, first the main comm antenna never deployed correctly and it's still operating on secondaries at much lower bandwidth, and they completely screwed up the calculations for the Huygens probe, but its mission was (mostly) saved by some very creative orbital hijink when the problem was realized when the spacecraft was still enroute.

... unless I have this confused with one or two other missions, a quick Google doesn't find any references.

It's still a great success and some of the best work ever done by humans on this planet, but trouble is our middle name.

113 paint-right  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:28:03pm

This is an amazing coincidence (for me I mean) as I was just browsing htorugh the Cassini Huygens site and clicking on dozens of spectacular photos and also some wondrous video - breathtaking!

A very amzing video is short but sweet, one of saturn's moons every so often collides with part of the rings and creates a sort of furrow in the ring . You can watch it happen!
HERE

114 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:31:32pm

re: #113 paint-right

This is an amazing coincidence (for me I mean) as I was just browsing htorugh the Cassini Huygens site and clicking on dozens of spectacular photos and also some wondrous video - breathtaking!

A very amzing video is short but sweet, one of saturn's moons every so often collides with part of the rings and creates a sort of furrow in the ring . You can watch it happen!
HERE

WOW!

That explains some of the twisted rings.

115 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:32:36pm

re: #112 itellu3times

Trouble-free?

IIRC, they've had two major problems, first the main comm antenna never deployed correctly and it's still operating on secondaries at much lower bandwidth, and they completely screwed up the calculations for the Huygens probe, but its mission was (mostly) saved by some very creative orbital hijink when the problem was realized when the spacecraft was still enroute.

... unless I have this confused with one or two other missions, a quick Google doesn't find any references.

It's still a great success and some of the best work ever done by humans on this planet, but trouble is our middle name.

You are correct, they had main antenna problems and a doppler miscalculation with Huygens.

116 paint-right  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:36:02pm

This shortish flash photo essay is quite awesome as well>wow and wow

117 itellu3times  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:36:51pm

re: #115 jcm

You are correct, they had main antenna problems and a doppler miscalculation with Huygens.

Actually, I finally Googled to a brief mention of the doppler problem, that was a really interesting problem - and solution! In brief, IIRC, they forgot the doppler issue, used a cheap part they couldn't tune sufficiently after they realized the issue, and "solved" the problem by changing the orbit so the Cassini dived at Titan while the Huygens descended, to minimize the doppler! Very kewl, if you're an engineer!

118 jweaks  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:38:50pm

re: #37 Cognito

I'll second that... rapidly approaching excessive or obsessive or both. But it is his house and he may do as he pleases. -jw

119 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:42:44pm

re: #118 jweaks

The point of the mocker, since you and other seem to miss it, is that the Disco institute is a public relation firm of ad men and lawyers and not a collection of concerned scientists doing their best to discover the truth. They don't perform any real science, they sue, they complain and the pursue their theological agenda.

120 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:44:53pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The point of the mocker, since you and other seem to miss it, is that the Disco institute is a public relation firm of ad men and lawyers and not a collection of concerned scientists doing their best to discover the truth. They don't perform any real science, they sue, they complain and the pursue their theological agenda.

Come on KT, Disco Institute has done some amazing work on the physics of moving bodies.

121 paint-right  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:45:40pm

This to me is the great thing:

It's THERE.

And they've figured out how to go there and when they go there , there it is, huge and real.

Yikes!

On the "when we left earth" series there were unbelieveable shots of some of the apollo mission which I had never seen before: approaching the moon, the moon nearby, coming around the moon. terrifying and exciting beyond belief.

122 paint-right  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:47:45pm

re: #105 jorline

After WWII, where did Killroy go? He was everywhere...then POOF!

Inquiring minds want to know.

He left when everyone stopped saying, "Gosh, that's swell!"

123 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:47:51pm
(Oops. Did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant “NASA.”)

I really don't care what folks' beliefs are, which is why I seldom get involved in these religion-bashing threads. I would like to point out, though, that the NASA budget total 1958-1008 has been over 590 billion dollars. Throw that kind of money at anything and you're bound to get some results.

124 paint-right  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:48:31pm

never mind Kilroy, where did everyone else go?

125 unixrab  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:50:38pm

Well Charles...you're making progress... at least you recognize that the spacecraft had creators...and didn't magically appear via random chance in the atmosphere with complex DNA...computer code on it. :)

126 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:00:25pm

re: #43 Shug

Saturn is a big mo fo

You want to talk about a big mo fo? It would have to be Jupiter's magnetic sphere. If we could see THAT mo fo from earth, it would appear 16 times larger than the full moon.

/Useless fact I picked up in astronomy class

127 paxnhymn[deleted]  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:04:32pm
128 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:05:20pm

Number of stars at last stellar census.

70,000 million million million

129 wiffersnapper  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:07:50pm

Love the pics. Quite awe-inspiring! :)

130 AZfederalist  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:10:30pm

re: #14 Mars Needs Neocons

Someone takes offense in 5...4...3...

... and why shouldn't they? People who believe in a universe that had a causal beginning are in no way intimidated from discovering the created order of that universe and marvel at the wonders in that universe. They are no less capable of doing real science than someone who believes in a non-causal origin that violates some of the most fundamental tenets of logic and science (i.e. that violates the fundamental requirement that an effect (big bang) requires a cause, else that cosmic egg would still be in stasis). One of the most fundamental elements of science and logic -- nihilo, nihil est (out of nothing, nothing comes) has been replaced by out of nothing, everything comes. More succinctly, the modern cosmology teaches that nothing + nothing + lots of time = everything. Hardly a sound foundation for a scientific theory.

131 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:10:51pm

'paxnhymn' decided to exit in a blaze of hateful glory, but unfortunately for him his comment has been deleted, along with his account.

132 jweaks  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:12:56pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The point of the mocker, since you and other seem to miss it, is that the Disco institute is a public relation firm of ad men and lawyers and not a collection of concerned scientists doing their best to discover the truth. They don't perform any real science, they sue, they complain and the pursue their theological agenda.

First, I meant no disrespect to Charles. It's merely my opinion based on reading LGF for some time now. I like LGF and will contiue to read.

As to your comment, I have not posted a single word regarding the "Disco Institute;" you are rebutting a phantom. -jw

133 Malaprop man[deleted]  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:14:55pm
134 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:15:48pm

And another one bites the dust.

135 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:16:34pm

"paxnhymn" had a sock puppet.

136 Kulhwch[deleted]  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:21:46pm
137 AZfederalist  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:22:35pm

re: #123 LC LaWedgie

I would like to point out, though, that the NASA budget total 1958-1008 has been over 590 billion dollars. Throw that kind of money at anything and you're bound to get some results.

Compared to the amount thrown at the "War on Poverty" and other social programs since that time, it's a pittance. So, given that, why do we still have poverty and the poor? After all, we've thrown a whole lot more money that way.

138 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:23:08pm

Go ahead and delete 136 for me, Charles ... I should have remembered not to quote caca if I post about it ...

}:)

139 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:27:37pm

re: #138 Kulhwch

Thank you.

}:)     [Okay, nothing to see here, let's move it along ... ]

140 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:27:46pm

Pretty amazing how much spite and hatefulness these self-professed "devout" people can muster.

141 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:29:17pm

Simulation of a giant meteor collision with Earth - They think this has happened like 6 times.

142 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:29:22pm

re: #140 Charles

It's appalling, and I'm really sorry to see it aimed at you.

143 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:32:53pm

re: #140 Charles

Pretty amazing how much spite and hatefulness these self-professed "devout" people can muster.

Agreed, it does nothing to for our testimony in the world my Christian brothers and sisters.

Think about what other will think of your posting before you submit that comment. If you question that debate and all sides are allowed go see re: #12 jcm. Spiteful, hateful comments are not appropriate period.

144 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:33:23pm

re: #137 AZfederalist

Thanks, you made my point for me.

145 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:36:31pm

re: #140 Charles

I can't touch that.

146 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:39:31pm

re: #140 Charles

Pretty amazing how much spite and hatefulness these self-professed "devout" people can muster.

I missed that. Radically devout?

147 the phantom  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:43:48pm

re: #132 jweaks


As to your comment, I have not posted a single word regarding the "Disco Institute;" you are rebutting a phantom. -jw


Au contraire, I, too, have not posted a single word regarding the "Disco Institute."

148 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:43:53pm

re: #140 Charles

I guess it takes a lot more to walk the walk than talk the talk.

}:)     [Just keep on keepin' on, Charles.  There's a lot of us who enjoy what you do.]

149 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:44:33pm

re: #147 the phantom

LOL!

150 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:48:57pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout
Why can't you touch that? I admit I'm late to this thread, but I gather that the spite and hatefulness Charles talked about in #140 was from the deleted comments - or do I need to do more than skim the comments to find it?

151 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:50:12pm

After pictures of Earth and other galaxies from space, there's nothing I like seeing more than Saturn.

152 MacGregor  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:51:31pm

re: #150 realwest

Why can't you touch that? I admit I'm late to this thread, but I gather that the spite and hatefulness Charles talked about in #140 was from the deleted comments - or do I need to do more than skim the comments to find it?

Hey RW- I don't know what was said but I don't think it was about science!

153 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:51:45pm

re: #143 jcm Hey jcm! I couldn't agree with you more; spiteful and personally nasty comments have no place in civilized discourse. I would think, however that that rule should apply not only to your Christian brothers and sisters, but to everyone here, wouldn't you agree?

154 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:53:14pm

re: #152 MacGregor Well I obviously don't know what was said either since I gather the comment was deleted, just didn't know why Killgore didn't feel he could touch that - say the way jcm did in #143.

155 jweaks  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:53:22pm

re: #147 the phantom

Au contraire, I, too, have not posted a single word regarding the "Disco Institute."

LOL!

That was "a phantom" and not "The Phantom" I was referring to. I beg your pardon. :)

156 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:54:07pm

re: #126 Sharmuta

Well, no. It would depend on entirely how good our eyes were.

157 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:57:26pm

re: #153 realwest

Hey jcm! I couldn't agree with you more; spiteful and personally nasty comments have no place in civilized discourse. I would think, however that that rule should apply not only to your Christian brothers and sisters, but to everyone here, wouldn't you agree?

True 'dat. I'm harder on them because they should know better, and it is damaging to what Christians should be about.

158 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:57:26pm

re: #156 sideways

At 16 times larger than the full moon, you'd have to have pretty poor eyesight to miss it- that is, if it were visible.

159 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 8:58:07pm

re: #155 jweaks

LOL!

That was "a phantom" and not "The Phantom" I was referring to. I beg your pardon. :)

I'd sleep with one eye open for awhile!

;-P

160 Carridine  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:05:09pm

re: #142 Sharmuta

Sharmy, I don't believe that hatred IS aimed at Charles, but aimed at what those people PERCEIVE Charles to be...

In which case, it is aimed at a part of themselves.

161 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:07:56pm

re: #160 Carridine

That's a really good point, Carridine.

162 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:08:42pm

re: #160 Carridine Hey my friend - I really musta taken extra stoopid pills tonight - I don't get your comment - other than the part about people's hatred being aimed at what they believe or percieve Charles to be; how is that
being aimed at part of themselves?

163 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:09:33pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

This just doesn't make sense without further explanation. Is it a claim that Jupiter emits 16 times the power in magnetic radiation per square foot than the moon does reflected radiation? Otherwise, it just becomes a question of what the viewers are good at seeing. We're good at seeing sunlight-range waves, and terrible at other frequencies

164 Miles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:13:15pm

I love reading thought-provoking posts on science and technology. It's amazing, how far we've come in the last decade or so.

But why does every science post, as of late, have to have an immediate agenda? Not that I'm trying to defend the ID crowd, but it's a major distraction, to say the least.

165 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:14:26pm

re: #163 sideways

No, no. Shug mentioned how Saturn was a "big mo fo", and as a comparison, I mentioned the magnetic field of Jupiter. It was just an interesting tidbit I picked up in astronomy class that IF we could see this magnetic field from earth it would dwarf the full moon. But then, I've always found space fascinating.

166 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:15:01pm

I should say, many more times than 10 (25600?), because Jupiter is so much farther from the Earth than the moon

167 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:17:15pm

Uh, if Kulhwch is still out here, I'd sure like to know why you dinged down my comment #153. Do you not agree that spiteful and personally nasty comments have no place in civilized discourse. I would think, however that that rule should apply to everyone here?

168 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:17:38pm

but the magnetic field of Jupiter has no fixed size. It's as big as you can detect it. Magnetic fields aren't like solid ground, they don't have a real edge. They have effective edges. Get better "eyes" and they're farther out. They just get incredibly weak.

169 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:19:03pm

re: #168 sideways

The tidbit must have been based on it's largest possible size.

170 RedFox84  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:23:10pm

re: #164 Miles

I love reading thought-provoking posts on science and technology. It's amazing, how far we've come in the last decade or so.

But why does every science post, as of late, have to have an immediate agenda? Not that I'm trying to defend the ID crowd, but it's a major distraction, to say the least.

You know how McCain sometimes pokes conservatives in the eye to demonstrate that he's not one of THOSE Republicans? Charles does the same, except uses the ID crowd instead.

171 Carridine  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:23:59pm

re: #162 realwest

No stupid pills involved, Real...

Here. You, as a rational soul, a meta-physical Being associated with your material body in this world, can experience this world through your senses, right?

Your eyes send you a signal, your fingers, tongue, ears and nose send you signals, right?

And those signals are modified at several neuronal junctions along the way, SO whatever RE-PRESENTATION of reality (out there) that you can create (in here, inside ME, inside RealWest's mind) is a RE-presentation of whatever's out there, a MAP of reality, never the reality.

We use verbal and written shortcuts all the time, but what Sharmuta and I were noticing is that the hatred (and the love, and friendship, and envy and any other human feeling/thought) can ONLY be directed at "my-internal-representation-of" Charles.

Make sense?

Can you (internally) make SENSE of this little map I share?

172 Promethea  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:26:15pm

re: #113 paint-right

This is an amazing coincidence (for me I mean) as I was just browsing htorugh the Cassini Huygens site and clicking on dozens of spectacular photos and also some wondrous video - breathtaking!

A very amzing video is short but sweet, one of saturn's moons every so often collides with part of the rings and creates a sort of furrow in the ring . You can watch it happen!
HERE

Thanks for the link. I love space photos/videos like these. Note that the moon in question is named Prometheus. He's my brother.

173 Charles  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:26:21pm

re: #170 RedFox84

You know how McCain sometimes pokes conservatives in the eye to demonstrate that he's not one of THOSE Republicans? Charles does the same, except uses the ID crowd instead.

There's nothing "conservative" about the ID crowd -- they're the antithesis of genuine conservatism.

174 jaunte  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:29:14pm

re: #170 RedFox84

Charles has done a lot of good work over the years pointing out people who are lying about their true political motives. The DI people are a case in point, just like CAIR, just like Dan Rather.

175 sideways  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:36:21pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

there is no "largest possible size" except in a sense that no one has the ability to compute. You could go to the visible edge of the universe itself and still see Jupiter's magnetic field if your eyes were good enough

176 neocon hippie  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:40:08pm

Anybody see this?

[Link: deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com...]

Scientific American claims to have “15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense”. But the answers, not the questions, are nonsense.

177 jcm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:41:17pm

re: #176 neocon hippie

Anybody see this?

[Link: deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com...]

Scientific American claims to have “15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense”. But the answers, not the questions, are nonsense.

A little late, whole thread.

178 neocon hippie  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:42:19pm

re: #177 jcm

A little late, whole thread.

Oh, I saw the thread yesterday, but here's a whole article allegedly refuting SciAm. Was it mentioned on the SciAm thread?

179 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:42:25pm

re: #171 Carridine
Ah, yeah, I get it. I mean I get what you're saying; I don't get why people don't just take Charles at face value, you know? I mean, he's not like "shy" about expressing his opinions! LOL!

And what I DON'T GET IS THIS: If people don't "like" Charles why do they bother coming here? Or come here and avoid the threads that they disagree with him about?
THAT is stupid.

180 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:43:52pm

re: #176 neocon hippie

It seems that the leader of the pack over there entertains the notions of AIDS denialists, so this doesn't surprise me.

181 realwest  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:44:45pm

re: #174 jaunte Hey juante! And don't forget the European Fascists as well - I really think Charles did superb work with them.
I really, REALLY enjoyed those threads a lot, because I learned SO MUCH not just from Charles' and other's research, but from the comments out here, as well.
MAJOR LEAGUE KUDOS to Charles for that work too!

182 HypnoToad  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:47:14pm

Arrived late, but thanks for the thread. Cassini represents about six years of my life (working on the attitude and articulation control system) and I'm really pleased to see it get exposure.
There is SO MUCH cool stuff from NASA that is never seen by the public.

183 jaunte  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:48:56pm

re: #181 realwest

Hey realwest! You are correct, sir, it was an incomplete list. The point to Redfox is that no political orientation should be spared scrutiny.

184 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:50:00pm

re: #182 HypnoToad

Wow! Thanks for your hard work.

185 jaunte  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:51:18pm

re: #182 HypnoToad

Yes, thanks! Excellent attitude!

186 Promethea  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 9:52:46pm

re: #173 Charles

I've come to the conclusion that the so-called "conservative/liberal" dichotomy is some distorted product of labels derived from the French Revolution. The actual dichotomy is that of "facts" v. "feelings."

Although the "fact people" don't claim to know all the facts (indeed, just the opposite), the "feelings people" think that they know what's what based on what they want things to be.

That's why discussions with creationists is just as frustrating as discussions with liberals. They aren't interested in the real truth, just the truth that sounds good to them.

187 Carridine  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:09:20pm

re: #179 realwest

I hear you. Coming into THIS room, to complain about the one person who makes THIS room available to you (you impersonal), or coming here to say publicly in THIS room, "I don't like being in THIS room!" seem like acts of perverse self-victimization that-

Oh, well of course! Now I see it...

Thanks for helping me sort that out, Real! :D

188 BeckoningChasm  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:11:11pm

That is one gorgeous image. It really reflects the sheer majesty of the universe.

I wish I could paint something an eigth as beautiful as that.

189 rismee  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:11:20pm

I thought it would be more "orange-ish"

JR

190 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:16:58pm

re: #167 realwest

Uh, if Kulhwch is still out here, I'd sure like to know why you dinged down my comment #153. Do you not agree that spiteful and personally nasty comments have no place in civilized discourse. I would think, however that that rule should apply to everyone here?

Certainly, there were a couple of aspects of it I didn't agree with.  Follow:

Charles gets gaffed by a couple of people, at least one of which is done by an apparent religious fundamentalist, and it's nasty.

Charles expresses his his feelings about that:

Pretty amazing how much spite and hatefulness these self-professed "devout" people can muster.

jcm espresses his feelings about Charles' reaction:

Agreed, it does nothing to for our testimony in the world my Christian brothers and sisters.

Think about what other will think of your posting before you submit that comment. If you question that debate and all sides are allowed go see re: #12 jcm. Spiteful, hateful comments are not appropriate period.

You then said:

I couldn't agree with you more; spiteful and personally nasty comments have no place in civilized discourse. I would think, however that that rule should apply not only to your Christian brothers and sisters, but to everyone here, wouldn't you agree?

And suddenly, it isn't jcm admonishing people he obviously is concerned about, it has the appearance of you setting yourself up as judge, et al.  Both to control speech, and to control how it is applied here on this blog.  Suddenly there's a rule and you seem to apply it to all universally, when it isn't your blog nor your place.  Plain speaking, I'm against censorship and was a bit startled that you jumped on that so fast.  Disagreeing with the control you seem to be espousing, I quietly disagreed by using the ding, much as I quietly agree or disagree with others in the same fashion.

Since you asked so plainly, I'll respond plainly: no, I don't think you should be allowed to set a rule over everyone here.  I've watched people try to gain control over this blog by whining, by pretending to be hurt, by accusing others of things not done, by threatening to leave, by claiming religious persecution, by threatening the end of the free world, etc.  You may not like it, but I disagreed with yet another perceived attempt to do likewise.

Now others may disagree with me and will ding me down and I won't argue with them, it is their right to express their feelings or beliefs that way, here on this blog.  (Folks, knock yourself out, I am a big boy and can take it!)  I won't lose sleep over it, nor will I create a snit because it happened.  It is, after all, just a ding.

}:)     [Now, have we not been civil?]

191 Carridine  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:19:53pm

re: #190 Kulhwch
Y'aint talkin at me, but I vote 'Civil'...

:D

192 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:20:19pm

re: #171 Carridine

Hey, I bought it.

}:)     [And I agreed with it.]

193 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:31:02pm

re: #191 Carridine

Sir, you're too kind.

}:)     [But thanks ... ]

194 Kulhwch  Tue, Jul 8, 2008 11:35:11pm

re: #190 Kulhwch

Charles expresses his his feelings about that:

Jeez, just when you're trying to make a good impression ...

}:)     [ ... like spilling grape juice a new dress pants ... ]

195 Carridine  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 12:39:23am

re: #194 Kulhwch
I resemble that remark!

:D

196 sesshoumaru  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 3:25:09am

Everyone seems to forget that this was a joint ESA/NASA mission. Nasa being Primarily responsible for the orbiter (Cassini) and ESA being primarily responsible for the lander (Huygens). Can ESA get a little credit in these science posts Charles? Europeans have their pride as well ;)

197 Peacekeeper  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 5:39:44am

Charles, I don't believe that the Discovery Institute denies the existence of other planets.

198 Annar  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 5:43:04am

re: #10 faraway

Just looks like a random blob of dust to me.

A Discovery Institute spokesanimal said that these images show definite signs of cosmological irreducible complexity so now we know that god did it so the mission should be shut down.

199 ArcherB  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 6:06:13am

re: #57 Occasional Reader

Speaking of The Discovery Institute... NRO gave them a platform today.

My favorite part; after indignantly denying that ID has anything to do with religion - it's just good, plain, "skeptical" science, you know - the author, with no apparent sense of self-contradiction, writes:

Which chapter did Darwin put that in?

Well, if you are going to cherry pick quotes, how about this one:

The law was so carefully framed that even the head of the Louisiana ACLU has had to concede that it is constitutional as written.

Someone, please tell me this site is not left of the ACLU.

200 jab1  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 6:13:12am

Daisey, Daisey....

201 Peacekeeper  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 6:18:52am

Great moments in journalism:


On 17 July 1969, when the Apollo crew was on the way to the first landing of man on the Moon, The New York Times finally printed a correction:

A Correction. On Jan. 13, 1920, "Topics of the Times," and editorial-page feature of the The New York Times, dismissed the notion that a rocket could function in vacuum and commented on the ideas of Robert H. Goddard, the rocket pioneer, as follows:

"That Professor Goddard, with his 'chair' in Clark College and the countenancing of the Smithsonian Institution, does not know the relation of action to reaction, and of the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react - to say that would be absurd. Of course he only seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools."

Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th Century and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere. The Times regrets the error.

For the record, the "Topic of The Times" said much more than The Times presented here (see page 117 of Blazing the Trail). The correction also leaves an impression that rocket functioning in vacuum has been "definitely established" long after The Times attacked Robert Goddard. Nothing is also known whether the Times regretted the pain its actions inflicted on the American rocket pioneer.

202 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 6:31:58am

Muslims invented Saturn.

I read it in the NYTIMES.

203 Cygnus  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 7:04:14am

re: #40 faraway

If you look closely at the small dot in the center and rotate it 33.7° it reads:

John 3:16

I thought that it said 'Buy AFLAC'.
Stunning picture! It's always fun to show somebody Saturn through my telescope. I always get a 'WOW!', especially from those who have never seen it before.

204 Cygnus  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 7:06:10am

re: #50 Bob in Breckenridge

Insert Uranus joke here...

Insert Uranus joke here? That's a joke in itself!

205 shrike  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 7:11:23am

I wonder when we'll be able to buy a piece of Saturn or its lovely moons on this site

Perfect gift for the great-great-great-great-great-great grandkids...lol

206 Land Shark  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 7:20:59am

I'm pleased to see this mission doing so well. I've been following it and I'm amazed with what they've come up. I've always been interested in astronomy and I'm happy to see missions like this that expand our knowledge and raise new questions. The latest mission to Mars has also been quite revealing. Kudos to all the scientists involved.

That picture of Saturn is just beautiful. The wonder of God's creation on display. Hopefully man will journey to these places someday.

207 Charles  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 7:52:23am

re: #199 ArcherB

Someone, please tell me this site is not left of the ACLU.

And oddly enough, here's ArcherB, "not" defending the Discovery Institute again.

208 free  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 8:57:33am

this is one of my favorite NASA photos
[Link: www.nasa.gov...]
It is set as my wallpaper on this PC.

209 fish-man  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 9:04:30am

I am studiously bored by the ID people and the DI, but I think it is good that Charles pokes at them. Probably good to link to some discussion on the DI when you mention it for latecomers. I hate people who twist science to make religion work. Unfairly, I don't mind quite as much when people twist religion to make science work. :)

210 Visa  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 9:10:28am

Still laughing about the DI quip. Well done.

211 stevedecatur  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 9:18:07am

500 years ago if the Discovery Institute existed they would have demanded all kids learn how the Sun and the planets rotate around the Earth, and that Galileo is a godless, homosexual, left-handed scientist with his flawed theory of the Earth orbiting the Sun.

212 Boston Patriot  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 10:06:28am

The Bible says it's only 3 weeks old.

213 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 10:25:03am

re: #200 jab1

Daisey, Daisey....

I said "Open the pod-bay doors" Hal ...

(Just FYI, but shouldn't that be Jupiter in the photo then?)

}:)     [Hal?  Hal?  HAAAAAAALLLL!]

214 MacGregor  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 12:16:49pm

re: #173 Charles

There's nothing "conservative" about the ID crowd -- they're the antithesis of genuine conservatism.

Thank you for saying that Charles.

215 medaura18586  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 12:49:18pm

re: #131 Charles

'paxnhymn' decided to exit in a blaze of hateful glory, but unfortunately for him his comment has been deleted, along with his account.

Glad I could piss off that idiot! He must be seething so hard now!

216 jaynumber13  Wed, Jul 9, 2008 3:33:24pm

Charles, evolution has very little to do with astronomy, and there's nothing that says a raging creationist is insane about the planets. It's like complaining Eddie Van Halen is a bad sculptor.

Thanks for making the artificial gap between science and religion even wider.

217 NomadOfNorad  Thu, Jul 10, 2008 12:12:33pm

re: #68 hillbilly geek

anybody got a link to those hexagonal "bolts" on the south pole of one of the Jovian planets?

Hmmmm... think they could be a link to the Wellworld? :D

/obscure literary space-opera reference

218 NomadOfNorad  Thu, Jul 10, 2008 12:35:18pm

re: #140 Charles

Pretty amazing how much spite and hatefulness these self-professed "devout" people can muster.

They're probably like the Pharasees and the Sadusees, who were so full of their own piety that they wouldn't recognize a genuine spiritual truth if it came up and bit them on the ass. :-)

Jesus didn't care too much for them either. :^D


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