The religion of the Aztecs is no longer with us.

Wow. Wonder how many like this guy are out there?

Good for Akbar Hussein for pointing this out. I hope he gets some people thinking.

re: #2 clear vision

Wow. Wonder how many like this guy are out there?

Hard to tell. They don't like to make themselves heard, it seems, because to be heard espousing this message is a death sentence.

Bernard Lewis has a book on this subject as well

Hey, dude, that's apostate talk, we have fatwas for that sort of thing

/ guess /sarc or no sarc

re: #4 reine.de.tout

Hard to tell. They don't like to make themselves heard, it seems, because to be heard espousing this message is a death sentence.

In other words, not enough.

He's from North York, a suburb of Toronto, not "New" York.

Islam is in need of a Reformation. Where's Mohammad Luther with 95 theses?

re: #8 KGB

north of Toronto, Canada

Fatwah issued against Akbar Hussain in 5...4...3...2...

He is going to need around the clock protection soon!1

re: #9 sawblade88

Reforming Islam is impossible

WOW !

I am so surprised by this letter ... in a good way and happy that it got published by the media.

#2 ... I would like to believe that there are more of these types of muslims out there.

SYB

re: #7 Fat Jolly Penguin

In other words, not enough.

exactly.

In "Infidel", Ayaan Hirsi Ali's biography, she relates an incident where she is introduced to a moderate imam who is supportive of her and her efforts, and he commented to her (something along the lines of) it will be Muslim women like her who force changes to Islam - but you know, I don't think there are enough with the necessary education to make that true.

Read this in the papers up here yesterday. These sort of sentiments are a long time coming.

BTW, Charles: The writer of the letter is from North York (part of Greater Toronto), not New York.

re: #2 clear vision

Many but they are afraid to speak out against the Jihadists

re: #9 sawblade88

Islam is in need of a Reformation. Where's Mohammad Luther with 95 theses?

We need a Mohammad Luther who doesn't end up getting mad at the Jooos for not converting after he allows that it is ok for them to be on the earth. Once they didn't convert, he revoked his approval of their existence. So bring on someone else as the example of reformation, please.

Dead man walking.

Watch your back, Akbar.

There are quite a few guys like this one....

....in Iraq.

Not so many in the west, where not only the mullahs but the western media and governments themselves support and legitimize the whackos.

Good for this guy. I hope he's careful, you're suppossed to give your real name to the newspaper opinion pages.

Am commenting before I read the article, just saw headline. I will pre-comment thus...
"I hope so."

Now back to reading the post.

This fellow can expect a Fatwa soon. And it is that fear perpetrated from the dark side, talk against Islam and die, that keeps it a cult inhabited by the ignorant and the fearful.

Well, I wish him luck, health, and safety. I hope that's not his real name.

Now if we could get the other billion muslims to speak out against the cult, we'd be in business.

Be safe Akbar Hussain, North York.

OT it is starting to look like Hagel for Obama's VO slot. This may be thread worthy. The good news is that it makes it easier for the Republicans to throw out the Isolationist trash and refocus the party with a reasonably broad domestic base and a strong focus on American Exceptionalism and Active Internationalism. This should allow a reaching out to the Reagan Democrats. The Republicans, a healthy soup of Lieberman Liberals, Nascar Patriots and Romney Free Marketeers, with a flavoring of Thompson vinegar.

A faith that does not value human lives is a cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic.

Not a cult but a gang

re: #20 Shiplord Kirel

There are quite a few guys like this one....

....in Iraq.

Not so many in the west, where not only the mullahs but the western media and governments themselves support and legitimize the whackos.

And here's one who just escaped and is now here:

Ahmad Batebi

re: #20 Shiplord Kirel

There are quite a few guys like this one....

....in Iraq.

Not so many in the west, where not only the mullahs but the western media and governments themselves support and legitimize the whackos.

But even in Iraq, home of our mega$$, they had a cow when one of their govt people shook hands with Ehud Barak at a conference, for crying out loud. We have to pay attention to all the disgusting insults sent the way of Israel and Jews by these Middle Eastern people. Even the ones who aren't actually shooting. They won't stand up to the ones who are because they are giving a silent cheer for each incident. Someone please prove me wrong.

re: #18 Sunlight

We need a Mohammad Luther who doesn't end up getting mad at the Jooos for not converting after he allows that it is ok for them to be on the earth. Once they didn't convert, he revoked his approval of their existence. So bring on someone else as the example of reformation, please.

Before you get to reflexively antagonistic toward Luther and his latter statements on the Jews, please recognize that this response was triggered by the fact that many Jews had become agents for the papists during the counter-reformation.

/In no way defending those comments, but I sure wouldn't use this to reject or somehow negate the great significance of the Luther-led Reformation. Standing up in front of the Pope's main man who had the power with the stroke of a pen to kill kill him and say, "... to go against conscience is neither right nor proper, here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God" takes more faith and fortitude than many of us can guess.

re: #3 jaunte

Good for Akbar Hussein for pointing this out. I hope he gets some people thinking.

If he used his real name, he probably just signed his own death warrant. ROP...spit...

re: #28 reine.de.tout

And here's one who just escaped and is now here:

Ahmad Batebi

oops. He's from Iran, not Iraq.

A faith that does not value human lives is a cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic.

When does this guy get dragged before Canada's notorious Human-rights commissions.

I know there are many more like him. He is a credit to his faith, and he is certainly courageous for speaking his mind about the hijacking of his belief.

Isn't it sad that we are worried for his safety, simply because he is upset by certain IDEAS within his religion (which he obviously holds dear and has great respect for). The question all Muslims need to ponder is: Why should this man FEAR to speak in this way?

re: #9 sawblade88

Islam is in need of a Reformation. Where's Mohammad Luther with 95 theses?

He's gonna need a whole lot more than that.
Automatic Fatwa in 3...2...1....

I am appalled to see that, in my opinion, the majority of Muslims are not concerned about this crisis in their faith which they follow with such strong conviction.

A faith that does not value human lives is a cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic.

Bravo!

re: #30 AZfederalist

Before you get to reflexively antagonistic toward Luther and his latter statements on the Jews, please recognize that this response was triggered by the fact that many Jews had become agents for the papists during the counter-reformation.

Check. There's always a good reason to trash the Jews. They always always have it coming.
/sorry... I'm grumpy about these things.

Even Mohammad could not reform Islam. he borrowed from the peoples of the Book to invent this religion, but kept too much from their pre-monotheistist days to allow it be a peaceful creed.

I don't hold out much hope for Islamic reform.

If you listen to CAIR and any number of Muslim apologists (including our own governmental officials), Osama bin Laden and his ilk have done a great injustice to peaceful Islam. Yet, you don't see masses of believers rioting and demanding that he be tracked down and brought to justice. No, the rioting is reserved for cartoons and any other perceived criticism.

If Islam will ever be saved, it will start with its women.

Where they treat their women like chattel what chance do Infidels have.

For real fun with Luther read up on the Marburg Colluquay between Luther and Zwingli. They really did argue over what the meaning of "is" is and Luther threatened violence.

Changing the Religion of Perpetual Outrage...one mind at a time!

re: #20 Shiplord Kirel

There are quite a few guys like this one....

....in Iraq.

Not so many in the west, where not only the mullahs but the western media and governments themselves support and legitimize the whackos.

Yes, it was certainly my experience that Muslims in Iraq (as apposed Muslims I met in my time in Saudi Arabia) were far more open to discussing what was wrong with extremists who debased their religion, and wanting to stop it.

I don’t see any escape route.

Nor do I. And I don't see anyone in Islam trying to cut one.

I hope he didn't use his real name.

re: #30 AZfederalist
Huh? You want to read the blueprint for Kristallnacht and the Holocaust? Wiki "On the Jews and Their Lies" and note the authors name. Read that eight point plan and tell me how many were enacted in Germany.

Flying pig moment?

Will he survive long another to write another letter?

It is impossible to 'Modernize' or 'reform' Islam. The principle tenets of the religion are its superiority to all other religions as well as that it is the Moslem's duty to convert all other religions to the 'one true religion,' and if the infidels refuse to convert, then to kill them. In other words, trying to reform Islam is similar to trying to reform Nazis to respect Jews or Ku Klux Klan members to believe that Blacks are their equal.

For those truly moderate Muslims I know, opting out of the mosque rather than confrontation is the safer bet.

This past week, a large Cleveland mosque replaced an imam removed for terrorist support. They replaced him with a Hamas acolyte.

Since this is not anecdotal - with numerous mosques funded by and led by radicals, how, by any measure, is this not a problem with Islam?

If people would through support behind groups such as American Islamic Forum for Democracy and Muslims Against Sharia rather than the terrorist apologists and supporters within CAIR, MAS, MSA and ISNA, progress might be made.

re: #37 Sunlight

Check. There's always a good reason to trash the Jews. They always always have it coming.
/sorry... I'm grumpy about these things.

Apparently so. Let's go through this real slowly: The Reformation was a significant event in western history, the events that coincided that made it possible were truly miraculous (ascendant German monarch, the Turks harassing the pope to the East). However, the papacy did not take this lying down and the resulting bloody wars to regain those states the papacy was losing saw significant loss of life. In this equation, there were those who worked inside the reformed lands to help the papacy regain power, leading to more slaughter and bloodshed in those lands because of this treachery. Now, Luther was upset because in his naiveté, he thought that once the true Gospel was restored, the wholesale conversion of the Jews would be seen (why he should have thought that when they didn't convert when they had the Son of God himself in their midst is a different conversation). However, the fact that many in that community were actively working to restore the papists led to his remarks. As I said, I don't support those remarks and, as a Lutheran, am saddened that he made them. Luther was also a fellow, sinful human who sometimes let emotion get the better of him. At the same time, I would not somehow throw out and reject all of the good that was done during his lifetime.

So Hussain may be the first executed as a 'traitor' to Islam's holy jihad against the Kufr (Infidels). We are all infidels, because Muslims claim that Muhammad was the true Prophet, and all else were merely, stepping stones, to Mr wonderful. I am not seeing the political will to battle back against the Jihad, because the leaders of both parties take payoffs from Saudi, Dubai, Oman, etc. The Bushes and the Carlyle Group, the Clinton's and Dubai....

Islam is so screwed up, that there is nothing left but to revert them back to sand! The Time for their religion (terrorist cult) is over, just a matter of time!

re: #49 BenChaim

It is impossible to 'Modernize' or 'reform' Islam.

I absolutely disagree with that statement.

All religions have had some aspect of dogma that they have had to overcome in order to function as the world progresses. Islam is no different, they just haven't gotten there yet (being the youngest of the major world religions).

Interesting....

It seems as though many of these types of islamic folks are mostly from Canada, coincidence?

re: #55 allan5oh

Interesting....

It seems as though many of these types of islamic folks are mostly from Canada, coincidence?

Could be. Then again ya can't play hockey in a man dress so the need to reform is strong in Canada.

re: #55 allan5oh

Maybe our friends in Canada need to build a fence!

re: #56 rightwinger3

Could be. Then again ya can't play hockey in a man dress so the need to reform is strong in Canada.

Suspect that form of dress is somewhat uncomfortable in the winter as well.

hope his life insurance policies are all paid up, because some extremist will be coming after him, unfortunately.

Same guy? Canadian newspaper?

re: #9 sawblade88
Such a moslem Luther would be stoned as an apostate and a blasphemer. It would be seen as an attempt by a man to change those words which were given to BigMo directly from Stan. It is this very problem that has prevented islam from changing. Any one who would suggest such a change must, ipso facto, be wrong.

re: #51 AZfederalist

With Luther, it was good until it wasn't good. Given the German garden path from Luther's words to the holocaust, I'd call it a net negative. Maybe the Jews back then had an inkling... the "papists" certainly weren't known as friends, so I would guess it was a lesser of two bad situations type thing.

re: #53 'Nam Grunt

I wish I thought there was something reformable in Islam, but I think it is like an apple that is rotten through and through and has been from the beginning. Any reform of Islam to make it into a religion that is tolerant and respectful of human life is no longer Islam, but some new religion. I see no hope in reforming Islam. I wish this were not so, but that's my take.

re: #30 AZfederalist

BTW, Luther had no love for the peasantry when they rejected his approach. When the peasants rose up against the lords, Luther quickly disavowed a lot of his support and the messages that he had given them.

re: #63 David IV of Georgia

Islam is evil for sure, just read their book, it's coming for them just don't know when!

Thanks kindly for the hat tip Charles.

re: #63 David IV of Georgia

I wish I thought there was something reformable in Islam, but I think it is like an apple that is rotten through and through and has been from the beginning. Any reform of Islam to make it into a religion that is tolerant and respectful of human life is no longer Islam, but some new religion. I see no hope in reforming Islam. I wish this were not so, but that's my take.

Well there was the new testament. No more eye for and eye and all that stuff. So there is hope. And this guy I am sure speaks for those afraid to say anything. Hopefully there are tons more like him.

re: #66 Thanos

Thanks kindly for the hat tip Charles.

It is a good one, Thanos. You can just hear that guy's frustration.

re: #63 David IV of Georgia

I wish I thought there was something reformable in Islam, but I think it is like an apple that is rotten through and through and has been from the beginning. Any reform of Islam to make it into a religion that is tolerant and respectful of human life is no longer Islam, but some new religion. I see no hope in reforming Islam. I wish this were not so, but that's my take.

Oh.. there will be a reform of Islam. That is a certainty. For those who practice Islam will force us to reform them.

re: #54 psyop

I absolutely disagree with that statement.

All religions have had some aspect of dogma that they have had to overcome in order to function as the world progresses. Islam is no different, they just haven't gotten there yet (being the youngest of the major world religions).

How much longer do you think this may take?

"A faith that does not value human lives is a cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic."

Mr Obama, do you agree with this statement?

/next question please, sweetie.

A courageous man, but irrelevant. Islam is growing not on the strength of its attraction to reason but on the effective hard power it is exercising. Akbar Hussain's view is in decline as a fraction of the whole.

The mechanism open to non-Muslims to promote Akbar's sentiments is to be inflexible about the rules for civilization and thus make Islam's use of hard-power ineffective. Freedom of speech, press, and religion trumping any desire to placate angry people. Unfortunately, the West is near uniform in it's craven response to threats and is only too anxious to abandon it's core freedoms in order to be sensitive to those who hold innocents hostage. England, France and Canada prosecute people for speaking their minds about Islam. France, Canada and even Texas willingly concede to Sharia law rather than enforce the law created by democratic institutions operating in accordance with a constitution. The question in Akbar Hussain's case is whether he'll be prosecuted by a Canadian Human Rights Commission before he's killed by members of his church.

Multiculturalism has succeeded, it has destroyed common national core values that protect and promote civilizations. Nations are no longer an effective organizing entity, and are measurably failing: no longer capable of asserting borders, language, sovereignty over territory, common law, fiat currency, internal security, or a common defense. Power will not transfer up to supra-national bodies like the UN or the EU, their failure is more objectively clear than that of nations. Power will devolve down to quasi-feudal groups seeking geographically secure places to live and linked together by the IP backbone to other groups with similar values. You're an early-mover if you read LGF.

No way out? You've got a pretty good chance of leaving Islam and staying alive in Canada, but probably a good idea to get a gun.

I hope this guy has a body guard.

A faith that does not value human lives is a cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic.

agreed.

I personally think Islam can be reformed, but there are several things that need addressing, and it's just not going to happen overnight. It will take a century or more by my estimate. ( a bit harder to predict or compare to past reformations and revolutions however; in the internet age things could go much quicker...)

Meantime you have the two major factions being egged on to the fourth fitna (Islamic civil war) by the extremists on both sides. Iraq wasn't the perfect place to go to war just because of Sadaam, but it's also where the two factions most visibly butt into each other, and has a large secular population. People are still dissing Bush even as we are winnning, but it was a good move.

What a breath of fresh air that even one person can write something reasonable that needs to be done with Islam. This will very much anger the fundamentalists I fear because they will never give up their position of power and authority. If they did they might actually have to go out and get a real job sometime.

re: #75 Thanos

Bless you! History will show that W was right!

re: #49 BenChaim
It is impossible to 'Modernize' or 'reform' Islam.
I absolutely disagree with that statement.
All religions have had some aspect of dogma that they have had to overcome in order to function as the world progresses. Islam is no different, they just haven't gotten there yet (being the youngest of the major world religions).

Really? What aspects of 'dogma' have the Buddhists had to overcome, pray tell?

It is naive and suicidal to believe that 'Islam is no different.' Allowing Moslems into Western countries is like putting baby Piranha into an aquarium filled with angelfish and neon tetras; in the end, the only fish remaining will be the Piranhas.

Some dogma or religions are incapable of reform. Tell me how my analogy to the Nazi and KKK is inapplicable.

Luther at least had something to work with when he suggested that irregularities had crept into the church and needed correcting. Catholics today even agree with many of Luther's complaints. While Luther was trying to return to a purer Christian faith, Islam seems to be holding onto its core values when it is intolerant and terror-promoting. What would be nice is not a reform of Islam, but to remake Islam, that is, to create a heretical form of Islam that actually can live peacefully with other people.

This "Akbar Hussein" is correct to note the faults of Islam, but I fear the solution he hopes for is just a fairy tale.

_{But then again I may be biased. I think Islam is completely hell-spawned evil that even when it masquerades as good and benevolent seeks to maliciously destroy all true good and beauty in the most spiteful hateful way possible.}

re: #34 psyop

The question all Muslims need to ponder is: Why should this man FEAR to speak in this way?

Yes, that is the question.

It involves the “religion” embracing Taqiyya or shear deception and not logic. It involves the “religion” embracing barbarianism or Hirabah.

The mullahs use taqiyya to convince their hirabi thugs to kill, dismember and intimated others who disagree with them. There is no free thinking allowed.

It is a circular event. Until this circle of taqiyya brainwashing and Hirabi killers is broken no progress will be made.

The idea of 72 virgins for becoming a Hirabist is defeated more idiots will join in on the violence.

We must do a better job at exposing these brainwashers and killers for what they are. Some would call it a war of ideas and others would call it Psyops.

The entire paraphernalia of Islam is protected by the poisonous tentacles of immovable dogmas and ignorance. This dark side is supported by fear and the followers are innumerable. I don’t see any escape route.

My God and Thank God somebody has called the (Rosmery) baby in it's real name. Not a single word of PC in this frase.

I'm going to adopt it. My only fear is his last part; No way out of this mess?! As the Highlander said...

re: #40 Opinionated

If Islam will ever be saved, it will start with its women.

Where they treat their women like chattel what chance do Infidels have.

I disagree. I've said many times the children are the key. I'm hoping we're keeping the f'ing imams out of the schools in Iraq and are providing a 20th century education. Islam could be saved overnight if everyone over the age of 12 disappeared from that faith.

re: #62 Sunlight

With Luther, it was good until it wasn't good. Given the German garden path from Luther's words to the holocaust, I'd call it a net negative. Maybe the Jews back then had an inkling... the "papists" certainly weren't known as friends, so I would guess it was a lesser of two bad situations type thing.

Germany by the time of the 20's and 30's had lost most of its Lutheran composition. During the mid to late 1800's, in the interests of uniting Germany, the churches were forced to become more state influenced than religious (truly an irony given the nature of Lutheran doctrine). Many of the Germans who held to their faith were persecuted and many came to the US.

It is quite a stretch to somehow hold Luther accountable for the holocaust.

Wow, a glimmer of hope from that Muslim!

re: #80 Ledger1

I never understood the 72 virgins thing; I mean, isn't it depressing being the first for 72 women (That's usually bad sex the first time around)?

And then (you have to have 72 virgins; so... they will change the used ones all the time.

I thing the Muslin Heaven is a very depressed place- Nobody has good sex over there... Forever!

re: #84 the_flying_pig

Wow, a glimmer of hope from that Muslim!

Say that again

re: #9 sawblade88

Islam is in need of a Reformation. Where's Mohammad Luther with 95 theses?

Islam cannot be reformed in any real sense. Whatever Islam was during the first part of Muhammad's career in Mecca it changed into a politically oriented cult once he got real power in Medina. There his revelations changed to proffer himself as an equal to his 'god' by citing revelations which made disobedience of Allah the same as not obeying Muhammad. It was during this period that jihad (holy war, not that 'inner spiritual struggle' interpretation which is mentioned neither in the Qur'an nor in the hadith) became the essential duty of all Muslims and Allah defined his prophet as the most perfect human who Muslim's should look to as a model for living their lives.

Since Muslims maintain that there can be no divine revelation after Muhammad they are stuck with a second rate book copied whose contents are largely stolen from Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian sources and a 'prophet' who was anything but an ideal role model for modern society and an obligation to wage continuous war against the kafir until the Islamic Planet Earth is firmly established.

re: #75 Thanos

I personally think Islam can be reformed, but there are several things that need addressing, and it's just not going to happen overnight. It will take a century or more by my estimate. ( a bit harder to predict or compare to past reformations and revolutions however; in the internet age things could go much quicker...)

Meantime you have the two major factions being egged on to the fourth fitna (Islamic civil war) by the extremists on both sides. Iraq wasn't the perfect place to go to war just because of Sadaam, but it's also where the two factions most visibly butt into each other, and has a large secular population. People are still dissing Bush even as we are winnning, but it was a good move.

I doubt this would happen in my lifetime, but oh how I would love to see the actual 'plan' that was formulated before we went into Iraq; if, indeed, it included the supposition (correct word to use?) of the factions having a civil war, etc.

The pessimist in me, from what I read and learn and experience, just doesn't see this ideology ever reforming. They are wholly opposed to progression in the modern world (their leaders because of the power and their followers because of forced ignorance by their leaders).

if he stays a muslim i suspect the only place he would feel at home is with in sufi islam or if he figured out islam is not reformable he might end up as a Bahai' the later would be a vast improvement and even the former generally doesn't act with violent jihad.

Akbar Hussain better be an alias...

I know Muslim students at Cal Poly, through our church's participation in college interfaith activities, that would agree with what he has written.

How widespread the agreement is? I have know idea.

re: #47 MandyManners

One flying pig coming up, ma'am. Would you like a banner attached to it for a statement you wish to express?

So this guy’s supposedly a Muslim, but he’s surprised by this? Has he never read the Koran? Does he know nothing about his “religion”? He’s either hopelessly ignorant or lying. If he’s sincere, but just ignorant, he needs to do the right thing and bail on that twisted ideology pronto, threat of death or no…

Obama: "There has been a shift in Islam that I believe is connected to the failures of governments and the failures of the West to work with many of these countries"

[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

re: #83 AZfederalist

It is quite a stretch to somehow hold Luther accountable for the holocaust.

Just what were the minor little 'remarks' that Luther made? Oh wait, it was an entire book. Complete with a blueprint:

#1 "First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..."
#2 "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ..."
#3 "Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ..."
#4 "Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ..."
#5 "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ..."
#6 "Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. ... Such money should now be used in ... the following [way]... Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount]..."
#7 "Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow... For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."
#8 "If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs."

Look at number seven and remember what was printed over the gates of Auschwitz.

re: #64 grumpy old codger

BTW, Luther had no love for the peasantry when they rejected his approach. When the peasants rose up against the lords, Luther quickly disavowed a lot of his support and the messages that he had given them.

That's somewhat of an oversimplification. The peasant's uprising was antithetical to the teachings of submitting to the government placed over someone unless that government ordered a person to do something in violation of God's law. Luther also criticized the lords when they went overboard in suppressing the uprising, saying, "all the devils instead of leaving the peasants and returning to hell, had now entered the victors (the lords) who were simply venting their vengeance".

This all needs to be placed in the context of the fact that Luther's primary motivation was religious, not secular. His sole norm and standard were scripture and was primarily concerned with what was stated in scripture for salvation. Secular concerns were addressed (remember, that the whole of Europe was ruled by a religious papacy, thus the government was controlled by religion) in what was said in the New Testament about being respectful to the government -- Luther viewed the peasants' uprising as antithetical to that. He also viewed the excesses of the nobles as wrong also.

re: #75 Thanos

I personally think Islam can be reformed, but there are several things that need addressing, and it's just not going to happen overnight. It will take a century or more by my estimate. ( a bit harder to predict or compare to past reformations and revolutions however; in the internet age things could go much quicker...)

Oh, God, a hundred years of more screaming and rioting Muslims, turning over and burning cars, accusing everyone of Islamophobic, demanding shariah laws and beheading infidels. We don't need and wanted that, Mr. Thanos!

We wanted them to STOP all that overzealous misbehaving and dissing in the name of Islam. Right. Now.

that's a good beginning. we need millions of letters like that.

Akbar has nothing to worry about, since Islam is the religion of peace.

re: #63 David IV of Georgia

I agree with you. As someone once said "Islam reformed is Islam no more."
I see at least two pertinent ways in which Judaism & Christianity differ from Islam. One is that the Bible consists of material composed over many centuries and set down by many witnesses. The Christian Bible, e.g., stretches from prehistoric traditions and songs (later written down) all the way through the 1st century AD. The workings of God throughout various circumstances and the development of doctrine over time are inherent in the text. Recovery and reformation are repeated themes.

The Koran may not really be the product of one man in one place at one time, as Muslims aver, but it's pretty close to that.
The message is thereby frozen in one time and place. (Imagine if the Book of Joshua were all we had of the Bible!)

The other thing is that Islam has never had the "minority" experience that Jews and Christians have had. The fundamental doctrines of Christianity were worked out over centuries of persecution; both ancient and rabbinical Judaism underwent repeated exile and oppression. Islam, on the other hand, developed and sustained itself through miltary and political triumphalism. The very concept of a separation between Caesar and God is utterly absent. The prophetic tradition (the original "speaking truth to power") is absent.

Doesn't look good to me.

the group he is attached to is a secular modernist east Asian org. I suspect it is easier for him to be in York Canada than in Bangladesh were many in this group seemed to be based. In Canada the state would do nothing to him but in Bangladesh he could easily end up in jail or worse and Bangladesh is not one of the extremist Muslim states.

If they start following reason and logic, they will have to conclude that a religion started by a mass murdering pedophile can never be a religion of peace.

Does Akbar Hussain identify himself as a Muslim?

re: #99 wolfie

that isn't completely true in Spain, India and some other places Islam was not in the majority. In Spain no one was in complete control and because of that sharia was not completely unforced when Islam was in power there. but it was the exception to the rule.

re: #72 OCLizard777

A very thought-provoking post.
Not exactly perky (!) but IMO a fair assessment.

re: #95 AZfederalist

Agreed. Nonetheless, Luther did stress that knowing the truth of the Bible did not need the Church. By opening up this sort of view, it is ironic that he then had to come down on the peasants, when the interpretation was not acceptable. Not too dissimilar to what happened to the Levellers in England.
Also, Luther had the support of the ruling classes, he could not have resisted the weight of the Church if he did not gather support from the princes. and as we all know, rich people don't like to give up their goodies. Certainly, the peasants represented a threat to the then emerging Protestant political order.

This needs to be plastered everywhere for Muslims to see and take heed.

re: #15 reine.de.tout

exactly.

In "Infidel", Ayaan Hirsi Ali's biography, she relates an incident where she is introduced to a moderate imam who is supportive of her and her efforts, and he commented to her (something along the lines of) it will be Muslim women like her who force changes to Islam - but you know, I don't think there are enough with the necessary education to make that true.

So true. Islam has far too many terrorist fish-hooks stuck in the flesh of their adherents, for there to be an easy resolution.

In short, THE RELIGION OF ISLAM IS TRAGICALLY LACKING IN GENUINE HUMAN COMPASSION AND LOVE, THROUGH AND THROUGH. There are many millions of really decent human beings who are caught up in it around the world, who have neither the intelligence nor the education nor the courage and judgment to do anything about understanding and removing their built-in terrorist fish-hooks.

An educated woman? YIKES! HEAVEN FORBID! YANK HARDER ON THE LINES AND SINK THE HOOKS EVEN DEEPER! MAKE THEM ALL IGNORANT, AND USE TERRORISM TO KEEP THEM SO.

Imam nightmare: That all Muslim women receive a Berkeley education.
.

re: #100 yochanan

If I were he, I'd be expecting a subpoena from some HRC in Canada, shortly. Probably, before the first fatwa comes in.

re: #70 gettinby

How much longer do you think this may take?

It really depends on alot of things.

Almost all major historical "reformers" had people who supported them that were not necessarily connected to the group trying to be reformed.

If the sane among us continue to seek out people such as this, who is disgusted by what he sees, and wants to make a change, there will be success sooner rather than later.

If, however, the xenophobic amongst us decide that there is no hope, and those that seek reform should be destroyed along with the most radical of that group, then it will take much longer, and be much more bloody.

While I believe we would win a war of civilizations, I would prefer to foster those that want to include themselves in a free and productive world, and help them reject those that would drag us all down.

I suspect "Akbar Hussein" is a pen name, otherwise he opening himself up to some serious shit from his co-religionists.

re: #110 Paul

I suspect "Akbar Hussein" is a pen name, otherwise he opening himself up to some serious shit from his co-religionists.

For the sake of his health and safety, I hope it is a pen name. I still wonder if we are making an assumption that the author is Muslim.

re: #8 KGB

re: #10 winston06

north of Toronto, Canada

North York IS Toronto... officially speaking :p

This letter is fantastic, and I truly hope more people in the area begin expressing sentiments like this.

Just to get a sense of the area a bit better (for all the non-locals on here...) If anyone has heard of the crap that happens at York University; York is located in North York. York is essentially Ontario's version of UC Irvine.

and since I just love posting this link so much:

The last minute or two are all about York.

re: #111 MarineMomSue

For the sake of his health and safety, I hope it is a pen name. I still wonder if we are making an assumption that the author is Muslim.

If that is the case, prepare for much rage and seething like what followed the Mo Toons.

re: #99 wolfie

Christianity has such a diverse set of Scriptures that if someone wishes to alter Christianity to fit almost any agenda or bias, one can find some justification in Scripture to support the change. That is one reason my church, the Eastern Orthodox, hold onto the teachings of the early Christians that were handed down to us so strongly—we know that almost any idea can find some support from Scripture alone.

Islam is different. It has basically two themes in its scriptures: Before Hijra and After Hijra. The somewhat peaceful Before Hijra scriptures have always been considered secondary. There is little room in Islam for reform without ignoring their scriptures or the traditions by which they are interpreted.

re: #103 yochanan

Yes, I am speaking in broad strokes.

re: #26 lifeofthemind

OT it is starting to look like Hagel for Obama's VO slot. This may be thread worthy. The good news is that it makes it easier for the Republicans to throw out the Isolationist trash and refocus the party with a reasonably broad domestic base and a strong focus on American Exceptionalism and Active Internationalism. This should allow a reaching out to the Reagan Democrats. The Republicans, a healthy soup of Lieberman Liberals, Nascar Patriots and Romney Free Marketeers, with a flavoring of Thompson vinegar.

"lotm" -

Sounds like a tasty stew to me - The Reagan Coalition with a dash of FDR.

-S-

Akbar Hussain’s letter to the Ottawa Citizen sounds like one of the early calls of modern society to abandon Islam.

Suppose that the various inconsistencies in the Quran (easily detected by Western Logic), and all verses that demonize or call for the subjugation Jews, Christians and others, were to be deleted.

What’s left?

All of the Hadiths must be deleted, as they are the word of a man, one Mohammed, 40+ years old, craving power not rightfully his, asserting to be conveying the Word of God, yet failing to show any proof (although, by his behavior, he seems to show plenty of counter-proofs).

What’s left?

An overly-simplified version of Christianity (or maybe Judaism), with several important ideas missing? Conversion makes much more sense.

But how many people in the ME (and as far east as India) can read, and have read and understood, the Quran and the Hadiths, to the point where they can discuss, explain and debate the contents with an honest opponent, Western-style (logic, no fear of retrubution, etc.)? I think that the number is exceedingly small.

I think that many 3rd, and later, generation assimilated Muslims in the US are starting to think like Akbar Hussain; they see the results of 1400 years of Islam in their ancestral lands, and realize that something is wrong. But the causes are not Christian, Jewish, Western or other, it’s them, or their ancestors, and their religion, and nothing else.

There’s some evidence that many “middle-class” immigrants from the ME come to the US and Europe to freely practice Islam. It may just be words on their part, but perhaps some of them really are tired of the hold the clerics have on their society. Unfortunately, many of these immigrants allow the clerics to succeed in their new lands (i.e., here).

What to do? There are reports of more than a few Iranians returning Zoroastrianism. Perhaps many people from the ME and North Africa will return to Coptic, or Nestorian, or other, Christianity. Perhaps others will try to reform Islam. It will be interesting to see the result of the current Turkish effort at checking (with its implied overtones of reform).

re: #85 DJ Wahaba

No joy in muslim heaven.

I don’t see any escape route.

He, like the vast majority of the rest of the Muslims of the world, has been carefully shielded from knowledge of the Coming of the Bab (al-Qaim, The Point around Which all the Prophets of God circle) May 22, 1844/1260AH, and Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God, known to Muslims as al-Mahdi.

The free peoples of the world will never submit to the medieval ignorance, bigotry and misogyny masquerading as "religion"...

...and Islam will never submit to reform, by humans. Leading to the free world's response, 'Kill them all', which will never happen.

The Deus ex machina is actually IN the Scriptures of all the previous dispensations (the Coming/the Return) and we need only find the courage to proclaim, publicly and persistently, even if courteously, that the Promise Ones have come, and obedience to Muhammad requires obedience to Baha'u'llah, just as obedience to Jesus leads to obedience to the Christ, come in His New Name.

Such obedience requires the Equality of Men & Women, the Harmony of Science & Religion, the Oneness of Humankind, the Individual Responsibility for the Development of My Rational Soul Investigating Reality for myself; and service to the humans I can see, for Love of God I can't see...

Not a 'new religion', but The Faith of God, the Religion of God, RENEWED, for this Day and Age. This is the 'escape route'

re: #114 David IV of Georgia

Absolutely!
Doctrine has to be grounded in the Apostolic tradition or it......well, it flies away.

re: #98 Shay4l

Akbar has nothing to worry about, since Islam is the religion of peace.

I don't get it. I keep forgetting the peaceful part for some reason.

re: #117 Arbalest

There are some (unverified) reports that many of the Iraqi youth are looking into/becoming Christians of whatever variety.

There are other unverifiable for reasons of life and death reports of whole towns and families converting to Christianity in the ME.

I once was part of a church service with 40+ former Muslims in that part of the world. Don't even bother asking for details. I was there. It happened.

re: #120 wolfie

Absolutely!
Doctrine has to be grounded in the Apostolic tradition or it......well, it flies away.

And Apostolic Tradition in no way contradicts Scripture. Any tradition that contradicts Scripture is false and has nothing to do with the Apostles.

I really fear this mans name should have been withheld.. From all I see of Islam on the outside, Islam doesn't tolerate criticism very well. A safe place to raise his family, worship, and make a living; when Islam enters there is no such place. Stay safe Akbar.. as I tell my friends in Israel.. watch your 6.

re: #119 Karridine

The mullahs fear the Bahai. Fear.

re: #123 David IV of Georgia

And Apostolic Tradition in no way contradicts Scripture. Any tradition that contradicts Scripture is false and has nothing to do with the Apostles.

Amen.

I used to believe that Islam was basically peaceful... that a few radical True Believers adopted an extreme interpretation of the Koran and Hadiths, but they were rare and dogmatically unsound. Then I read the Koran...

For a while, I held out hope that the moderate elements of Islam would seize the reigns, take control of the mosques, for surely they have as much to lose as the West if the fundamentalists run the religion... but I slowly lost that hope as well.

I realized that bin Laden, Zawaheri, and the like are not radicals, they are not fundamentalists, they are not even reactionaries, they are something far more dangerous -- they are literalists. They do not believe in interpreting the Koran, they believe in following it exactly. And that is a real problem because they will not only win any debate within the Islamic world [as the written words are on their side], but they are also self-generating as each new generation reads the Koran for themselves.

Even if the world was to join together and stamp out all of al Qaeda, Hizb ut Tahrir, and every other caliphate dreamer, similar groups would simply spontaneously form from the next generation of True Believers... and those new groups would terrorize infidel and lax Muslim alike until they gain control of the faith all over again.

As long as the Koran says what it says, and is taken as the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, the Islamic world will be whipsawed between repressive theocracies on one extreme, and secular police states on the other [only a police state can keep a majority Muslim country from becoming a theocracy over time], and the non-Muslim world will be dragged along for the ride by their own resident Muslim populations.

I fear that conflict between Islam and the rest of the world is the norm, and right now we are as peaceful as we are gonna get for at least a century... probably two. This might be as good as it gets, folks.

re: #78 BenChaim

Really? What aspects of 'dogma' have the Buddhists had to overcome, pray tell?

Buddhists have had their share of problems. That is why at least 4 distinct sects of Buddhism exits in the world today.
In there early history, 3 separate Buddhist Councils were formed and destroyed by internal schisms of dogma, with new forms of Buddhisms branching out from the old.
Many wars in history, and much blood has been spilled in defense of, and in aggression to, Buddhism.
Recently in our history, the North Vietnamese were predominately devout Buddhists, who had no problem killing to further their goals.

It is naive and suicidal to believe that 'Islam is no different.' Allowing Moslems into Western countries is like putting baby Piranha into an aquarium filled with angelfish and neon tetras; in the end, the only fish remaining will be the Piranhas.

That is an absolutely asinine analogy. With the fish and all. That would only hold merit if you thought (given a free society with intelligent people able to debate each other in the free arena of ideas) that the argument of radical Islam held more merit, and was more persuasive than, the secular freedom-based ideology we prescribe to here in the West, and with specificity, in America.

Some dogma or religions are incapable of reform. Tell me how my analogy to the Nazi and KKK is inapplicable.

There are quite a few reasons why that is a totally inaccurate analogy. Lets go with the easiest. Islam has a huge amount of followers. 10's of times more than those other groups combined. More than a billion followers worldwide. With that kind of subset (not to be to scientific), there are bound to be schisms. The KKK and the Nazis were able to function effectively (for a very tiny period in history, mind you) because they had a small enough group to control, relatively speaking.

re: #83 AZfederalist

Germany by the time of the 20's and 30's had lost most of its Lutheran composition. During the mid to late 1800's, in the interests of uniting Germany, the churches were forced to become more state influenced than religious (truly an irony given the nature of Lutheran doctrine). Many of the Germans who held to their faith were persecuted and many came to the US.

It is quite a stretch to somehow hold Luther accountable for the holocaust.

Hitler dedicated Kristallnacht to Luther and called him one of the greatest Germans.

A faith that does not value human lives is a cult.

I'll drink to that.

re: #129 kuffarharbi

Hitler dedicated Kristallnacht to Luther and called him one of the greatest Germans.

I've never heard that before, so I'd appreciate a link to back that. Kristallnacht was certainly well planned and some have noted the day that it was initiated:

According to Daniel Goldhagen, Bishop Martin Sasse, a leading Protestant churchman, published a compendium of Martin Luther's writings shortly after the Kristallnacht; Sasse "applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, "On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany." The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words "of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews."[28] Diarmaid MacCulloch argued that On the Jews and Their Lies was a "blueprint" for the Kristallnacht. [Link: www.answers.com...]

Actually, from the book I read, I believe it may have started the day before and continued into the next.

re: #2 clear vision

Wow. Wonder how many like this guy are out there?

About fourteen. Out of an alleged 1.2B people.

A crisis in islam- we can only hope. Let them destroy each other! A house of cards.

I highly doubt that Akbar Hussain actually exists. If he did, he just wrote himself a death sentence by sending this letter.

re: #85 DJ Wahaba

Good point.

It shows how ignorant and backward the deal is over there. It must have taken a lot of brainwashing to think up the 72 virgin thing for the sploders.

Cheers to Akbar Hussain for his thoughtful analysis. I hope he doesn't get in trouble for it! (Sorry if this has been said earlier; I tend to get to threads late, and mostly don't say much because it's already been said, but this time I don't care!)

re: #137 ploome hineni
Hehehe. Did you see the response from gentleman John McCains folks?

UPDATE to the UPDATE -- McCain spokesman Tucker "Outward" Bounds quickly e-mailed: "We completely agree with the Obama campaign, it’s tasteless and offensive.”

re: #4 reine.de.tout

Hard to tell. They don't like to make themselves heard, it seems, because to be heard espousing this message is a death sentence.

(Just in. Haven't reviewed posts past this.)

clear vision: They do exist. I've worked with Muslim engineers.

As reine.de.tout says, they keep quiet because it's dangerous to speak out.

Also, I suspect that many (foreign-born, immigrant) Muslims in this country (the US) are in some sort of denial. They have the good life. They don't know what to do about these fanatics, who spout Quranic quotations at the top of their voices. They hunker down within their own understanding of Islam (yes, there are understandings of Islam which differ from those of the Jihadis.) They hope the problem will go away.

It's not a simple issue.

Well, there shouldn't be a crisis, when the Top Ten Public Intellectuals for 2007/(or is it 2008?) are mostly muslims.
That you've never heard of........
[Link: www.prospect-magazine.co.uk...]

re: #137 ploome hineni

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS?

HA

Crap I wish I hadn't gone there. I never go to the politico and now I know why. Koslite.

re: #112 rlevitin

Thanks for the link!

re: #63 David IV of Georgia

I wish I thought there was something reformable in Islam, but I think it is like an apple that is rotten through and through and has been from the beginning. Any reform of Islam to make it into a religion that is tolerant and respectful of human life is no longer Islam, but some new religion. I see no hope in reforming Islam. I wish this were not so, but that's my take.

Islam has an inherient contradiction (WAY-over-simplified, the Meccan versus the Medinan Suras.) Most Muslims are ignoring it, but Muslims are the only ones who can deal with it. The Medina Sura will have to be ripped from the Quran. It will be bloody.

Islam will slowly obliterate itself from within over time if this is true... wouldn't surprise me if Christianity takes hold there in order to fill in the vacuum.

There was an article published of Iraqi muslims becoming non-believers because so many were calling for deaths of non-muslims in the name of Allah.

the clarity of Akbar's analysis is impressive; the likely ability of others like him within Islam to effectively transform the segments of Islam that are not compatible with the West? Not so much.

re: #146 MrTunes

the clarity of Akbar's analysis is impressive; the likely ability of others like him within Islam to effectively transform the segments of Islam that are not compatible with the West? Not so much.

The vast majority of Muslims are essentially illiterate.

re: #112 rlevitin

re: #10 winston06

North York IS Toronto... officially speaking :p

This letter is fantastic, and I truly hope more people in the area begin expressing sentiments like this.

Just to get a sense of the area a bit better (for all the non-locals on here...) If anyone has heard of the crap that happens at York University; York is located in North York. York is essentially Ontario's version of UC Irvine.

and since I just love posting this link so much:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

The last minute or two are all about York.

This is one of the better forms of propaganda that I've seen.

re: #147 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The vast majority of Muslims are essentially illiterate.

And this will continue to screw them over for centuries to come.

re: #149 boofar

And this will continue to screw them over for centuries to come.

Amen. Read "Why I Am Not A Muslim", among others. Arabic Islam has created (in poetical imagery) a hybrid monster/albatross.

I've got to go.

Charles, *5 Stars* from this lizard for posting this letter.

re: #147 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Around the world, yes. But Muslims living in the West tend to be the most educated of the faith.

re: #134 yehoshua

I highly doubt that Akbar Hussain actually exists. If he did, he just wrote himself a death sentence by sending this letter.

If the letter is legit, & Iassume it is, "Akbar Hussain" is a psuedonym. No way he signed his real name to it.

re: #144 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I don't imagine they can or will remove part of the Koran. What they really need to do is remove the literal word of god ideology. Look at the Koran as an inspired historical document and live with that.

re: #127 stevieray

I fear that conflict between Islam and the rest of the world is the norm, and right now we are as peaceful as we are gonna get for at least a century... probably two. This might be as good as it gets, folks.

Indeed. It seems that Islam and the West had roughly equal war-making technology until the middle of the 20th century. As long as the West has the advantage--no atomic weapons in the hands of Islamists--we have Peace Through Strength. But, "that power [i.e., possession of the atomic bomb] would be big enough...to make one nation alone a match for the world."

And, now look what we've done: the West has transferred vast amounts of wealth to the Middle East in exchange for their oil.

re: #152 Kenneth

Around the world, yes. But Muslims living in the West tend to be the most educated of the faith.

Yes, but being more literate in your faith doesn't really pay the bills and helps you to move on up. It also makes it hard to fire up R&D and other ventures. No matter how great Allah is, he's not going to come down and set up a factory that cranks out personal electronic devices.

re: #153 Kenneth

I don't imagine they can or will remove part of the Koran. What they really need to do is remove the literal word of god ideology. Look at the Koran as an inspired historical document and live with that.

Such a transition will create rivers of blood.

re: #127 stevieray

Sadly, very true. As Bernard Lewis said, "There is no moderate Islam, there are only (some) moderate Muslims." Literalism must die.

re: #142 Mars Needs Neocons

(It has other good writers, though....try the email edition).
Funny thing is, the cover seems not so far off to me...
Satire? Maybe not so much.
They (NY'er) could be hoisted by their own petard.

re: #154 slartybartfast

Actually, the West surpassed Islam's war technology sometime in the late 17th Century. After Lepanto and the Seige of Vienna it's been down hill for them ever since.

re: #160 Kenneth

Actually, the West surpassed Islam's war technology sometime in the late 17th Century. After Lepanto and the Seige of Vienna it's been down hill for them ever since.

I wonder what was that big tumble after that. What would cause it? They just turtled and said that they lost because of a lack of faith and ignore the modern world? In theory, they should be running the world.

re: #137 ploome hineni

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS?

HA

McCain spokesman Tucker "Outward" Bounds quickly e-mailed: "We completely agree with the Obama campaign, it’s tasteless and offensive.”

Yes and "Animal House" and "Blazing Saddles" (or any number of great movies!) were "tasteless and offensive"...and, while I'm on the subject...

I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.

That sounds like the blogroll at the official BHO website!

re: #157 boofar

It already IS creating rivers of blood. Over the past 30 years, from Morocco to the Philipines, hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, have been killed in this war between Islamists and so-called moderates. The West has been drawn in to this war, and we do have an interest in helping the Islamists loose, but we are really only a side show. re: #161 boofar

Lewis addresses that question in "What Went Wrong?" Some Muslim leaders answered the question by concluding they lacked Western technology or methods and tried to adopt those. Ataturk and the various Arab Nationalists like Nasser & Saddam are in that group. Others concluded the Muslim world had become apostate and corrupted by the West. Khomenei, the Muslim Brotherhood & bin Laden lead that group. The Saudis are a kind of hybrid of those reaations. But neither side has engaged in true self-examination necessary to rejuvenate. They are all running on oil & terror.

re: #161 boofar

I wonder what was that big tumble after that. What would cause it? They just turtled and said that they lost because of a lack of faith and ignore the modern world? In theory, they should be running the world.

The decline of Islam was caused by the decline of the captive infidel population of the Islamic lands. Once Islam was unable to conquer their neighbors, and acquire new wealth, new ideas, and new technologically adept slaves the caliphate began to wither. When your tax base and manufacturing class are slowly eroded by conversion to Islam, the need to expand become paramount. Like a shark that must swim or die, Islam must conquer or it will slowly die.

That is one of the prime reasons the West must get energy independence -- to stop artificially enriching the Islamic world; and why we should reconsider the mass immigration from Muslim lands -- creating a middle class for Islam, an act they apparently cannot do for themselves, as it only delays the much needed realization that Islam cannot continue as it is.

re: #163 Kenneth

It already IS creating rivers of blood. Over the past 30 years, from Morocco to the Philipines, hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, have been killed in this war between Islamists and so-called moderates. The West has been drawn in to this war, and we do have an interest in helping the Islamists loose, but we are really only a side show.

Well... I'm talking here in tens if not hundreds of millions of deaths. I don't see the Muslims at large just chilling if this were to happen. A few million dead will seem like peanuts.

re: #161 boofar

Lewis addresses that question in "What Went Wrong?" Some Muslim leaders answered the question by concluding they lacked Western technology or methods and tried to adopt those. Ataturk and the various Arab Nationalists like Nasser & Saddam are in that group. Others concluded the Muslim world had become apostate and corrupted by the West. Khomenei, the Muslim Brotherhood & bin Laden lead that group. The Saudis are a kind of hybrid of those reaations. But neither side has engaged in true self-examination necessary to rejuvenate. They are all running on oil & terror.

And they'll run out soon. Sooner than most think. When this charade ends, there will be a final Hurrah where even more will die and the entire ME will become a backwater of epic proportions. Africa will seem like the city on a hill. Sadly...

Unless, countries such as UAE and Iraq begin to slowly mold and challenge the views of the rest of the neighbors. It's possible with Iraq becoming a strong and legit democracy that more people will start picking up on introspection and questioning where they have been going, where they are going and where they should go. This will not exactly go over without a drop of blood spilled, but will be much more sane and ultimately lead to something of a Renaissance in ME.

There is no escape route.

Islam is a plague that must always be guarded against. Unfortunately, just like HIV it is an organism of opportunity and has a much easier time entering the system when the body is weakened by other diseases. HIV transmission is more likely if you have open sores from herpes, say.

The West is more susceptable to Islam and creeping Sharia due to the tools of cultural marxism. Like multiculturalism, political correctness, guilt and self-loathing, relativism, faux racism, and constant indoctrination in Leftist ideology that has the effect of destroying the backbone of a nation's defenses against Islam as they constantly question themselves. It gets to a point where there is not even a will to defend their own culture, their own way of life, and at that point why resist when there is nothing worth fighting for?

If he lives In North York/Toronto why Did he write to a newspaper In Ottawa
.Maybe there's more to Mr.Akbar, he's probably a Canadian white guy

great caricature of Obama (ryhmes with Osama) and his angry wife.

"I don't see any escape route."

The Gate to logic and reformation closed a thousand years ago when Islamic leaders decided that Allah is Irrational.

Leaving Islam also incurs the death sentence decreed by their "perfect man" Mohammad.

Change your name, move elsewhere, and hope for the best, Akbar Hussain.

re: #89 yochanan

if he stays a muslim i suspect the only place he would feel at home is with in sufi islam or if he figured out islam is not reformable he might end up as a Bahai' the later would be a vast improvement and even the former generally doesn't act with violent jihad.

It's not so easy. The original Sufi philosopher was Al Ghazali, a fundamentalist, well respected by today's Wahabbi sect.

The Baha'i founder Baha'u'llah is considered an apostate by the Shi'a muslims and all the orthodox islamic sects consider the Baha'is to be heretics. Their persecution in Iran has been continuous and even more vicious in recent times.

re: #128 psyop

re: #128 psyop

There are quite a few reasons why that is a totally inaccurate analogy. Lets go with the easiest. Islam has a huge amount of followers. 10's of times more than those other groups combined. More than a billion followers worldwide. With that kind of subset (not to be to scientific), there are bound to be schisms. The KKK and the Nazis were able to function effectively (for a very tiny period in history, mind you) because they had a small enough group to control, relatively speaking.

Psyops says: "Recently in our history, the North Vietnamese were predominately devout Buddhists, who had no problem killing to further their goals."

Ben Chaim's Response: The North Vietnamese were COMMUNISTS. COMMUNISM is anathema to all religions, so I don’t buy that argument. With regard to your general statement, that ‘Many wars in history, and much blood has been spilled in defense of, and in aggression to, Buddhism,” wars fought in DEFENSE of something can’t be held against anyone. That’s like saying that the homeowner who manages to shoot the perpetrator who breaks into his home is guilty of aggression!

Psyops says: It is naive and suicidal to believe that 'Islam is no different.' Allowing Moslems into Western countries is like putting baby Piranha into an aquarium filled with angelfish and neon tetras; in the end, the only fish remaining will be the Piranhas.
That is an absolutely asinine analogy. With the fish and all. That would only hold merit if you thought (given a free society with intelligent people able to debate each other in the free arena of ideas) that the argument of radical Islam held more merit, and was more persuasive than, the secular freedom-based ideology we prescribe to here in the West, and with specificity, in America."

BenChaim's Response: I don’t for a minute believe that “the argument of radical Islam held more merit and was more persuasive than the secular freedom-based ideology we prescribe to here in the West, and with specificity, in America. There is no ‘debating’ with Islam. Islam only makes demands. When has Islam ever made any concessions to other religions? They ‘capture’ and destroy other religions! They build their mosque on the Jews holiest site, the Temple; they convert churches into mosques, they blow up ancient Buddhist statues. They systematically destroy other religions when they achieve a majority (and before). Try going to Saudi Arabia and practicing Christianity! Try being a Christian in the Gaza Strip! There are so many of them because they multiply like rats! That’s why, barring some radical change, Islam is taking over France, England and Germany! I suggest you read Oriana Fallaci.

The trend of the comments is clear, and the title of the post is not quite right. There is a crisis, and it is not in Islam.

When the Danish newspaper publisher was threatened with death for publishing unflattering cartoons, why were they not printed on the front-page of every newspaper in the free world the next day? The answer is these organizations do not feel a responsibility to defend freedom against people who might actually hurt them. That is hard power. Islam has it. They're winning. Not in Iraq, here.

re: #148 boofar

This is one of the better forms of propaganda that I've seen.

are you referring to the link?

and propoganda for whom?

I would just like some clarification before responding.

Kudos to Akbar.

re: #169 profitsbeard
I agree with your observation, IF the long-expected al-Qaim and al-Mahdi HADN'T come, starting in the year 1260AH (1844CE) and with humankind until 1892...

They are CENTRAL to any discussion of Islam, as all Islam POINTS TOWARD their coming, and emphasizes that there will be no more prophets between Mo and Them.

They offer Muslims an acceptable way to 1) submit to the Will of God while 2) adopting social constructs (equality of men & women) and mindsets (logic, rational thought, need for personal responsibility) suited to this day.

As Wolfie (#125 above) points out, the power-clutching, ignorance-prolonging mullahs and imams FEAR Baha'i and the Baha'is... with a fear that pushes them to ARREST and PERSECUTE these 'Followers of the Glory of God'... for the crime of BELIEVING that God could do what He PROMISED to do...

re: #54 psyop

I absolutely disagree with that statement.

All religions have had some aspect of dogma that they have had to overcome in order to function as the world progresses. Islam is no different, they just haven't gotten there yet (being the youngest of the major world religions).

I think I know what you are trying to say, but this is such an error in thinking. Many people have the mistaken idea that all religions are roughly equivalent, or that all started on the same footing and just needed some tweaking. It is simply not true. There is nothing whatsoever in Christian scripture that can be construed as advocating violence. In Jewish scripture, there were many battles between the Hebrews and ancient peoples, but the only permanent "genocide command" is against Amelekites, a people who have not existed since ancient times. The death penalty for various sins could only ever be handed down by the Sanhedrin, the high court, and we have not had a Sanhedrin since the time of Jesus, roughly around the time our second Temple was destroyed. Even when the Sanhedrin was fully functioning, it was often said that if it put one man to death in 70 years, it was a "bloody Sanhedrin." Clearly, the death penalty was not commonly handed down, even in ancient times, even for those who were guilty.

In Jewish scriptures, there is nothing whatsoever that can be construed as a permission to commit wanton murder either against individuals or large groups of people. Not so in the Koran. The very book that Islam rests upon is a blueprint for mass destruction of humanity, and maximizes misery for any individual. The Koran calls for the outright murder of all Jews, and all non-believers. Women are hated. You will not find this kind of stuff in the holy writings of either Judaism or Christianity. It is dangerous and foolhardy to keep allowing this apologist comparison between all religions.

The entire paraphernalia of Islam is protected by the poisonous tentacles of immovable dogmas and ignorance. This dark side is supported by fear and the followers are innumerable. I don’t see any escape route.

No kidding. Here's Al-Qaida's "chief theoretician":

No one should feel safe without submitting, and those who refuse to submit must pay a high price. The aim of our movement is to turn the world into a series of "wildernesses" in which only those under our rule enjoy security.

I rather have some doubts that it was written by a real Muslim. It very well may be, but "Akbar Hussain" sounds like something made-up, and the worse/phraseology of the letter sounds a little different to me, much different than how Muslims usually word things.

re: #167 sheepdog

If he lives In North York/Toronto why Did he write to a newspaper In Ottawa
.Maybe there's more to Mr.Akbar, he's probably a Canadian white guy

Well, he sure as hell can't write to the Star or the Globe & Mail. They'd never publish his letter. He could write to the Sun, but he probably doesn't regard that as an option for intellectual exchange, not to mention that having your letter appear beside the Sunshine Girl of the day is probably not a good way to influence other Muslims. The Ottawa Citizen does actually run articles and columnists critical of Islam (David Warren for example) and it is in the capital city where the federal politicians are.

I wonder whether it is really a Muslim who wrote that letter. One would hope that there are Muslims in this world who perceive the dark side of their religion and who are willing to be vocal about it.

"A faith that does not value human lives is a [DEATH] cult. The main problem with Islam is its reluctance to embrace reason and logic."

DEATH CULT is more like it

re: #145 boofar

Islam will slowly obliterate itself from within over time if this is true... wouldn't surprise me if Christianity takes hold there in order to fill in the vacuum.

There was an article published of Iraqi muslims becoming non-believers because so many were calling for deaths of non-muslims in the name of Allah.

It really is Christian sensibilities that are lacking within Islam which prevent it from being a civil religion. If they wish to become a religion of peace they could learn much from the New Testament.

re: #157 boofar

re: #153 Kenneth
I don't imagine they can or will remove part of the Koran. What they really need to do is remove the literal word of god ideology. Look at the Koran as an inspired historical document and live with that.
Such a transition will create rivers of blood.

There will be rivers of blood either way, but we have trouble realizing that THEY DON'T REALLY CARE. A sane viewpoint would be, "Which path will spill less Muslim blood, a reform/transition (out of barbarism) or no transition?" If their leaders aren't thinking along those lines then their insanity is evident.

We aren't really asking very much of the worldwide Muslim community, because it's the same dues that we automatically pay every day. They aren't any better than anyone else. If they cannot learn to police and educate their people, drop their backward brutally-barbarian bloody ways and participate as decent, helpful and compassionate citizens in this present civilization here on Planet Earth, then they're steering themselves directly off the cliff and it's a LONG way down.

It appears that Islam's top leaders are perfectly content to waste a few million of their own 'ignorant, useless eaters' as long as there's continual progress towards their agenda of brutal domination.

No matter who you are, Islam's goal is to have direct domination and control over you and all that you hold dear. It's their stated objective, and they're working hard at it every day.
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re#127 Stevieray,
Stevie, your comment is the most sagacious and concise analysis of the muslim menace that I've ever read.
Seriously well said!

re: #127 stevieray

[only a police state can keep a majority Muslim country from becoming a theocracy over time]

I believe the Shah of Iran is a prime example of this, while he was able to maintain control Iran was peaceful, once the theocracy gained enough influence over the people to expel the Shah the country devolved into the terrorist state it is today.