Olmert, you're a fucking idiot.

"This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen."

No, electing Olmert tops that by a long shot.

This will just embolden them for the next time. They will most likely change some tactics and try and get prisoners on future raids/attacks just so they can exchange them.

Maybe the guy has flipped, gone double. It would be a good rumor to spread across jihadi/hezbo sites.

Olmert got the cabinet to sign off. They're just as culpable.

And Hizbullah will be celebrating with parties.

If I was the mother of either of those soldiers, I'd be raising hell with Olmert. I'd rather never see my son's body than see this bastard released.

I wonder what the tough Jews who founded Israel in the late 40's would think of this idiotic bullshit?

re: #8 SeafoodGumbo

I wonder what the tough Jews who founded Israel in the late 40's would think of this idiotic bullshit?

They're spinning in their graves.

Terror pays.

Until it no longer has a return it will continue.

Never give in to terror, not in any way shape for form. Or it will continue.

...never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
Winston Churchill.

They will release Kuntar.

In a little while, they will track him down and administer the justice he so richly deserves. They will slaughter him like the pig he is.

The Israelis will do to Kuntar and his ilk what they did to the Munich murderers.

re: #11 researchok

They will release Kuntar.

In a little while, they will track him down and administer the justice he so richly deserves. They will slaughter him like the pig he is.

The Israelis will do to Kuntar and his ilk what they did to the Munich murderers.

Word.

Charles-perhaps you could link this:

The World Should Know What Samir Kuntar Did To My Family

re: #8 SeafoodGumbo

My father was one of those tough jews in the 40's. He was born in the 20's in tel aviv and fought in the haganah. He passed away 10 years ago. I know he's weeping for his nation and his people today.

How many people, alive today, will die prematurely because of this act?

Maybe the plan is this: They bring the Lebanese prisoners to the meeting place, and when Hezbollah shows up, if the Israeli prisoners are alive they turn over the Lebanese; if the Israelis are dead, they shoot the Lebanese prisoners right then and there.

Nah, too much to hope for.

re: #11 researchok

Don't hold your breath. There is a reluctance in the army and in Israeli politics to deal with reality and a crisis of leadership in the Knesset and the military.

Not to show any disrespect to the dead, but if the Israeli soldiers are dead, then this exchange is for nothing. Why anyone would exchange a bloodthirsty child-murderer for two deceased people is beyond me.
There should be no exchanges of any kind. Terrorists and child-murderers should be wiped out.

I just cannot fathom what the soldiers families are going through. Those poor people don't deserve to have their sons dragged thru this mud and besmirched by the foul scum being released for their supposed release.

This is just plain wrong.

The exchange should be an identical one.

/My drift?

The radical left in Vermont will give him sanctuary

This disgraceful exchange sends a message to all terrorists, Gilad Shalit's captors included, that Israel is willing to pay just as much for a dead soldier as a live one. I feel sick to my stomach.

i hope they have a tracker embedded in him somehow, and use it to guide a 2000 lb JDAM welcome home gift to his destination.

re: #14 LionFromzion

My father was one of those tough jews in the 40's. He was born in the 20's in tel aviv and fought in the haganah. He passed away 10 years ago. I know he's weeping for his nation and his people today.

The maxim about it being easier to destroy than to build is sadly true.

Take notice. That's how the US will interact with terrorists/terrorism during an Obama presidency.

An Obamanation.

Just put the leftists in charge.

re: #2 MJ

No, electing Olmert tops that by a long shot.

He didn't take office by election, but when Sharon became comatose.

I wonder what the IDF soldiers who gave their lives for their country would think about their government freeing this killer in exchange for their mortal remains.

re: #9 MandyManners

They're spinning in their graves.

They kidnapped them to exchange for terrorists. Why would you exchange them for terrorists? It is insanity.

This has been tried again and again. At least three times that I can remember in the past 7 years. It never stops the killing. It never lessens the killing. It increases the killing.

This is why prisoners should only rarely be taken when fighting terrorists. They simply are more trouble than they are worth.

re: #18 Joan Not of Arc

The left in Israel has been putting tremendous political pressure on the government for this 'deal' to go through. And, Israel has a record of making these types of deals. Indidentally, in Jewish tradition, the body is considered a holy thing-the vessel of the soul which G-d created...that is why ZAKA spends countless hours gathering even the smallest fragments of human remains after terror attacks. Families cannot officially mourn their loved ones-not sit shiva until a death is confirmed.

re: #24 SeafoodGumbo

sad but true!

This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen.

agree 100%

re: #17 WriterMom

Whatever political ambiguities the Israelis might have to deal with, exacting justice from an animal like Kuntar isn't one of them.

re: #29 Iron Fist

Take.
No.
Prisoners.

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

The exchange should be an identical one.

/My drift?

Heh.

If not that, released with an implanted homing device.

From March '07: Israel releases 429 Palestinian prisoners in gesture to Abbas

Israel on Monday released 429 Palestinian prisoners, in a gesture meant to strengthen Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas after both sides decided at last week's U.S.-sponsored Mideast conference to try to reach a peace deal by the end of 2008.

...

On Sunday Prime Minister Ehud Olmert dampened optimism from the Mideast conference, saying Israel does not recognize the 2008 target date as a deadline for peacemaking.

"There is no commitment to a specific timetable regarding these negotiations," Olmert told his Cabinet, adding that before steps are taken, Palestinians must halt militants' attacks against Israel.

My head hurts.

Another example of when you put your trust in people, you'll be disappointed. Trust in G-d and your odds are much, much better.

re: #15 Silhouette

How many people, alive today, will die prematurely because of this act?

Less than a dozen, or so their government hopes.

Israel's own gvt. has bought into the State Department mentality that a certain number of dead Jews per year is acceptable.

re: #37 ploome hineni

..let him pay for his medical and dental care

and how long before he gets killed, anyway?

his life with Hezballa is much worse than is life in an Israeli prison

What really needs to happen to ****ar is a work accident, courtesy of Mossad.

I read that they're going to do the exchange at the Nahariya border crossing. I have a picture of my kids posing with an IDF guy at that crossing taken in summer '06 about two days before the soldiers were attacked/taken. We visited the caves on the coast there. Northern Israel is so beautiful (just like the rest... although TA reminds me too much of LA (no offense, Charles) and it was stunning when that incident happened and the rockets started flying and the fighters were taking off and landing 24/7 at the base next to our b&b south of TA for the next days.

Fauxtography or sheer incompetence. you decide

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Completely retarded.

Charles has a good point about Israel conceding it doesn't expect the soldiers to be alive - if they were, Hezbollah could now have them strangled and turn the bodies over anyway. Why EVER agree to terms set a precedent for foes to kill prisoners and just get away with it?

Israel under Olmert is really starting to scare me. The guy leaps at any ostensible short term gain in order to save his own skin, at the price of the nation's safety. It's a vision of what America would be like if run by Obama and his legion of pre-emptive surrender artists.

And as he walks off into the sunset he gets shot in the head by an Israeli sniper. My dreams usually don't come true.

July, 2007: In Gesture to Abbas, Israel Releases 255 Palestinian Prisoners

JERUSALEM, July 20 — Israel released 255 Palestinian prisoners on Friday in a gesture meant to support the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, who said that more prisoners would soon be released.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel promised the releases during his last meeting with Mr. Abbas, when he also agreed to grant amnesty to 178 members of the militant faction Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades if they gave up their weapons and pledged to stop attacking Israel.

re: #36 SeafoodGumbo

From March '07: Israel releases 429 Palestinian prisoners in gesture to Abbas

My head hurts.

When was the last time such a gesture accomplished this goal?

The definition of insanity is.......

D'oh. The two prisoner releases I linked refer to the same event.

re: #40 Pawn of the Oppressor

Less than a dozen, or so their government hopes.

Israel's own gvt. has bought into the State Department mentality that a certain number of dead Jews per year is acceptable.

Not exactly.

The State Dept's view is that a certain number is desirable.

USA's Israel policy (Olmert is the conduit, currently):

'We need you to bleed, and, more importantly, to be seen to bleed, by the Arab world. We will shrink you down, over time, and in return for Arab acquiescence to our needs and machinations in the wider middle east, to the smallest size sustainable by the best military technology and diplomatic invention. When the technology improves, we can and will shrink you down further. This will continue until our needs in the middle east are fulfilled. You cannot refuse. By refusing, you will lose the American veto in the UN Security Council. This will subject you crippling sanctions. You will also lose access to critical military spare parts you must have, and you will lose assurance of resupply in the event of war with your neighbors. '

I believe it is on a laminated wallet sized card issued to every new State Department employee, including secretaries, maintenance engineers, and facility landscapers.

re: #45 jordash1212

And as he walks off into the sunset he gets shot in the head by an Israeli sniper. My dreams usually don't come true.

An implanted device, and when he is getting the mankiss from the "leadership" in Paliland.............

This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen.

I repeat meself, (and I quote): I do not fear Islamic sand fleas, I fear moonbats in positions of power.

i'm crying

"This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen."

Be that as it may, it does show that Israel is good guy. Not that the rest of world needs convincing, they're already set on the whole little Satan thing.

Meanwhile, in his Fantasy Baseball league today, President Olmert traded Hassan Nasrallah his entire pitching staff for OF Barry Bonds, who isn't even on a Major League roster. He then offered to sell Hezbollah a suitcase full of money at an exchange rate of 5 cents per dollar.

re: #11 researchok

They will release Kuntar.

In a little while, they will track him down and administer the justice he so richly deserves. They will slaughter him like the pig he is.

The Israelis will do to Kuntar and his ilk what they did to the Munich murderers.

I hope you're right.

There's an episode of the Unit called the Bait that ends on a note like that.

I just have a feeling that Israel's not that daring these days.

re: #40 Pawn of the Oppressor

Less than a dozen, or so their government hopes.

Israel's own gvt. has bought into the State Department mentality that a certain number of dead Jews per year is acceptable.

That's exactly what I've been thinking is going on. It reminds me of the way we keep hemming and hawing where I live as the number of deaths and maiming by DWI/DUI drivers goes up... and meth monsters' murders in home invasions. I don't know the answer and I keep living here because it is a fabulous place to live, so I don't second guess what the Israelis figure out to do. I am, however, glad that they have a military person as defense minister, especially one who has shown personal courage and has also been part of trying all the garbage the lefties have wanted Israel to do. They are in a better position now than in summer '06.

re: #43 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Fauxtography or sheer incompetence. you decide

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Incompetence. It doesn't appear to be doctored/altered.

re: #43 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Fauxtography or sheer incompetence. you decide

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Isn't that a training exercise? Look at the muzzles of the M4's -- I believe (and perhaps some who have been through this kind of training can comment) that those are what they put on the muzzles so they can fire blanks.

In 2006, just after the Lebanon debacle, I chucked my Star of David necklace into the car trunk (it's now completely lost), stopped being religious, and have started to enjoy God's prize creation (lobster!). Seriously (the first 2 parts are true; I can't afford lobster), I no longer support Israel since I do not support people who won't support themselves.

June 30, 2006

Palestinian militants demand release of prisoners

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Three Palestinian militant groups reportedly holding an Israeli soldier hostage issued demands Saturday shortly after an Israeli state-run television station reported that Cpl. Gilad Shalit had been treated by a doctor.

Shalit's abduction on Sunday by Palestinian militants triggered an ongoing military offensive that Israel says is aimed at freeing the soldier.

The groups said they wanted 1,000 Arab prisoners released from Israeli jails, according to a statement faxed to media outlets early Saturday. The statement did not make it clear whether the groups were asking for the prisoners' releases in return for Shalit's release.

The prisoners include women and children.

Israel has flatly rejected any prisoner swap.

...

Israel has rejected previous calls for a prisoner exchange, saying it would only encourage further abductions.

re: #57 Slumbering Behemoth

A lizard linked to a fisking of the image earlier.

Wearing MILES gear in forest camo.

Incompetence, had a story and linked to a stock image that looked like they thought it should.

re: #55 dhg4

Mark my words, that will happen.

There are no free rides when it comes to killing babies.

re: #11 researchok

They will release Kuntar.

In a little while, they will track him down and administer the justice he so richly deserves. They will slaughter him like the pig he is.

The Israelis will do to Kuntar and his ilk what they did to the Munich murderers.

It's no longer your father's Israel.

It is now the Jews in Europe circa 1935 believing that this too will pass.

I don't suppose there's any chance that his release is being seen by some as an opportunity?

I mean, is there any prerequisite that states the next time this human detritus crosses the path of, for example, the IDF or some such....... Any chance whatever..... That all his rights to arrest and trial have evaporated?

I rarely express such thoughts, in such a manner even........ But this insult to sentience really makes my skin crawl.

The Israeli soldiers are dead, they are not coming back.
There is nothing that can be done for them.
The exchange may comfort the families but the price is too high.
This is rewarding bad behavior. Why are thy no longer alive? They were captured that way.
Instead the Israelis should make them pay for mistreating POW's

Today is the first day I was ever truly ashamed to be an Israeli.

So he smashed a little girl's skull in, after murdering her father in front of her. And he's going to walk. Because a genocidally-minded terrorist group wants him back.

What a world.

"The Beast & the Whore rule without control."

-William Blake

Israelis will regret this decision soon

re: #58 Lee Coller

Isn't that a training exercise? Look at the muzzles of the M4's -- I believe (and perhaps some who have been through this kind of training can comment) that those are what they put on the muzzles so they can fire blanks.

Blank adapters and MILES gear. (Is the laser training gear still called that? We used to have great fun playing with that stuff.) Incompetence.

“Fatah’s military branch organized a civilian and military procession yesterday through the streets of Rafah. This event was held in appreciation and gratitude for the efforts Hizbullah made for the release of Arab and Palestinian prisoners from Israel jails as part of the prisoner exchange deal with Israel. In a public statement by the Abu Al-Rish Brigades, Fatah’s military wing emphasized the need to follow Hezbollah’s example in order to achieve the release of all prisoners and detainees."
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, January 29, 2004]

“PM Ahmad Qurei: The detainees issue is at the top of the [Palestinian] government’s list of priorities. Their release is a condition to any possible deal. Protests in all areas. “The Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades” called on its members to kidnap Israelis in order to pressure Israel on the prisoners’ issue….”
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, August 16, 2004]

“The Islamic Jihad movement pointed out – in a public statement that was published on its behalf and was distributed during the procession – that it has the right to do any action for the prisoners’ release…Mushir Al-Masri, Hamas spokesman, said that ‘Hamas’ threats to kidnap soldiers still exist, and the movement will do everything in its power for the sake of the prisoners’ release…’”
[Al-Ayyam, August 17, 2004]

“The Hamas movement organized a mass rally yesterday in the refugee camp in Jabaliya…in a sign of solidarity with the prisoners and the detainees…Many of the family members of the prisoners and the Shahids [Martyrs] participated in the rally…A senior member in the Hamas movement, Dr. Nizar Rayan…called on all resistance factions to act for the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers in order to exchange them with our brave prisoners….”
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, August 21, 2004]

“The Al-Quds Brigades, Islamic Jihad’s military wing, and the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades, which belong to the Fatah movement, threatened to kidnap Israeli settlers and soldiers for the release of the prisoners in Israeli detention centers...The Al Quds Brigades and the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades said during a joint press conference in the tent of a sit-down strike in the square of the unknown soldier: ‘…we have decided to increase our efforts to kidnap Zionist soldiers and settlers…we will not back down and we will not change our minds about that purpose, in no way, and we will do everything in our power in order to achieve it.’ They mentioned several previous kidnapping attempts within the last three months, which have failed…They added… that directions were given… to all military chains to begin operations for kidnapping Israeli settlers and soldiers to save the prisoners.”
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, August 27, 2004]
link

re: #12 MandyManners

What does it mean when people say "word" after quoting someone?

re: #66 boston_baby

Today is the first day I was ever truly ashamed to be an Israeli.

Maybe that's why you've gotten to this day.

There have been many days lately when you should have been ashamed.

Most of all when the Jews of Gaza, and their dead, were forcibly removed.

re: #59 SFGoth

In 2006, just after the Lebanon debacle, I chucked my Star of David necklace into the car trunk (it's now completely lost), stopped being religious, and have started to enjoy God's prize creation (lobster!). Seriously (the first 2 parts are true; I can't afford lobster), I no longer support Israel since I do not support people who won't support themselves.

And when Obama is elected, or when the Democrats gain enough seats to have their way w/ American policy, you can throw the stars & stripes in the garbage and order up some halal meat.

re: #61 jcm

Ooh, could you point me in the right direction, please. I would like to see that link.

I choose to keep my "mouth" shut as my blood boils. That is all.

-S-

I wish somebody could tell me just what Olmert expects to gain by this travesty.

So how often must history repeat itself and thump Israel on the forehead before its leaders will get a clue? There is also the example of Betancourt from Columbia who was recently released from FARC and the lessons she learned there regarding terrorists. She had thought they just needed to be listened to and emphasized with. She didn't think they really wanted the whole country and to run it in their own, non-democratic way!

Kadima means Forward in Hebrew. Olmert is head of the Kadima Party. Irony is big in Hebrew.

re: #71 American Jewess In Jerusalem

What does it mean when people say "word" after quoting someone?

It's a signal of support. Adapted from the Rap subculture and typically not used anymore. It's heyday was the late 80's though the mid 90's IIRC. It was no longer cool on the day that Vanilla Ice used it.

re: #78 Golem Akbar

Kadima means Forward in Hebrew. Olmert is head of the Kadima Party. Irony is big in Hebrew.

"Kadima" he cried
from the rear
and the front line
died

(apologies to Pink Floyd)

re: #59 SFGoth

In 2006, just after the Lebanon debacle, I chucked my Star of David necklace into the car trunk (it's now completely lost), stopped being religious, and have started to enjoy God's prize creation (lobster!). Seriously (the first 2 parts are true; I can't afford lobster), I no longer support Israel since I do not support people who won't support themselves.

Mr. Goth - You really really really need to go visit Israel if you haven't or haven't recently. We were one day from having rockets fall on us in Israel '06. The Israelis handled it . They are fantastic and they have their ways of dealing with their neighborhood. Whatever your relationship to Judaism (wow! Israel led you to eat lobster?), you would benefit from seeing what they've done with the place!

February 22, 2005

Israel Releases 500 Palestinian Prisoners

RAMALLAH, West Bank, Feb. 21 - Israel freed 500 Palestinian prisoners on Monday, the latest good-will gesture intended to strengthen a truce that has largely been holding.

Palestinians welcomed the move, but also called for the release of the 7,000 Palestinians who remained imprisoned by Israel.

"This is a good beginning," said Muhammad Amtayer, 26, who was freed Monday after serving nearly four years of a seven-year sentence for possessing and dealing munitions, among other charges. "But there are many prisoners who are old and sick, and they should be the priority."

Wearing a Palestinian flag draped around his neck, Mr. Amtayer was among a busload of prisoners freed near Ramallah, one of five places where prisoners were dropped off. In each location, friends and relatives were waiting with hugs, kisses and tears.

Mr. Amtayer said that his mother died last year, and that his first two stops would be at her grave and at the tomb of Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader who died in November.

The new Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, has cited prisoner releases as his top priority as the Israelis and Palestinians move to revive peace efforts after more than four years of fighting.

Israel recently announced that it would free 900 jailed Palestinians, and the releases on Monday were the first installment. The remaining 400 are to be released within the next three months.

Many Palestinians hailed the releases as a tangible sign of progress. But Palestinians also complained that, as with previous releases, many of those freed were serving relatively short sentences and were near the end of their terms.

Israel has refused to grant an early release to prisoners who took part in attacks that killed Israelis, and those inmates are serving long sentences. But Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, said recently that Mr. Abbas had emphasized the importance of freeing long-term prisoners, and Mr. Sharon said he would consider it in the future.

Too sad to write, and too angry at the same time.

re: #71 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Word -

"Word" has no single meaning, but is used to convey a casual sense of affirmation, acknowledgement, agreement, or to indicate that something has impressed you favorably.

re: #59 SFGoth

What a pile of crap.

If you want to stop being religious FINE. If you want to eat treif FINE, but don't throw all of Israel under the bus.

Remind me again what Israel got for forcibly evicting its people from Gaza.

re: #55 dhg4

I hope you're right.

There's an episode of the Unit called the Bait that ends on a note like that.

I just have a feeling that Israel's not that daring these days.

Great episode.

One can only dream...

re: #13 WriterMom

I read her story many years ago in Readers Digest. I've never forgotten the horror of it.

It makes me sick that the killer is going to go free.

re: #71 American Jewess In Jerusalem

What does it mean when people say "word" after quoting someone?

Courtesy of Urbandictionary.com-

WORD: A versatile declaration, originating (more or less) in hip-hop culture.

"Word" has no single meaning, but is used to convey a casual sense of affirmation, acknowledgment, agreement, or to indicate that something has impressed you favorably.

Its usage among young blacks has been parodied ad nauseum among clueless suburban whites.

"Come on, man, we're going to the store."
"Word."

re: #25 runrabbitrun

Take notice. That's how the US will interact with terrorists/terrorism during an Obama presidency.

An Obamanation.

Just put the leftists in charge.

Our current administration has already done the same, releasing animals from Gitmo, and without any quid pro quo. Raw appeasement.

re: #49 Maine's Michael

I believe it is on a laminated wallet sized card issued to every new State Department employee, including secretaries, maintenance engineers, and facility landscapers.

You see the same thing I do, just slightly different motivations.

Acceptable Amounts of Dead Jews, Tourists, and U.S. Service Members = Satisfied Arabs.

Satisfied Arabs = Oil and Presidential Libraries.

If the ratio swings too far one way or the other, there is disruption, which is why Sep. 11th, though a natural extension of Arab psychopathology, was a wrench in the works, because it was too much, too fast, and too public. A dozen sailors here, a hundred Marines or twenty people in a restaurant there, no big deal, we can handle that, but 3K dead in NYC? That's a problem...

Too many Dead Jews and important people have to get onto planes and fly around to "talk" (that's irritating and takes away from golf time). Too few Dead Jews, and the Arabs start getting antsy because if there is no Arab/Israeli sideshow for their people, they're in trouble.

Too many dead Americans and/or tourists, and you have to get off your ass and make it look like you're working on something (more getting on planes again).

re: #88 rhino2

Great episode.

One can only dream...

I'd also be in favor of the Mossad giving Kantar the parting gift of a free "Mossad-customized" cellphone.

"Word" = "hear, hear."

As in, "I say, good fellow, those words you speak are words of truth indeed."

re: #87 SeafoodGumbo

Remind me again what Israel got for forcibly evicting its people from Gaza.

More kassams, more mortars, more dead Jews.

re: #87 SeafoodGumbo

Remind me again what Israel got for forcibly evicting its people from Gaza.

Not even some Rice-A-Roni. (the lowest of the low of parting gifts.)

re: #49 Maine's Michael

One conspiracy theory is enough for today, thanks.

re: #71 American Jewess In Jerusalem

What does it mean when people say "word" after quoting someone?

Don't mind Mandy, that's just how she rolls. ;)

re: #87 SeafoodGumbo

Remind me again what Israel got for forcibly evicting its people from Gaza.

Along with leaving Lebanon, they have shown the shape and depth of the pool they are dealing with. Many people refuse to know that Israel got out of Lebanon and Gaza, but if they by accident allow the info into their consciousness, they have been shown what a crock the whole "land for peace" approach is. I've seen people stunned by the realization that the palis and hizzies are still conducting armed attacks on Israel from Gaza and Lebanon.

January 29, 2004

Israel, Hezbollah swap prisoners

(CNN) -- Israel and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah conducted a historic prisoner swap Thursday after years of tense, secret negotiations brokered by Germany.

Two planes left Cologne, Germany, after the exchange -- one touching down in Beirut, Lebanon, to an enthusiastic greeting and the other landing in Tel Aviv, Israel, amid great national sorrow and anger.

Israel Defense Forces said more than two dozen Lebanese and Arab prisoners -- including two senior Hezbollah officials, Mustafa Dirani and Sheikh Abdel Karim Obeid -- flew to Beirut after the exchange occurred at an air base in Cologne. Stephan Smyrek, a German who worked with Hezbollah, also was freed.

Hezbollah, which Israel and the United States regards as a terrorist organization, released Elhanan Tannenbaum -- an Israeli businessman and army reserve colonel -- and the bodies of three IDF soldiers.

The swap was completed after Israel identified the soldiers' remains, which then were flown from Lebanon to the German air base.

The exchange was carried out on the same day as a terror attack in Jerusalem -- a suicide bomber set off a bomb on a bus, killing at least 10 people.

...

The agreement is based on a November Israeli Cabinet agreement in principle, which was delayed because of disagreements over Lebanese prisoner Samir Kuntar. Kuntar carried out an attack in Israel in 1979.

Hezbollah wanted Kuntar to be part of the deal, but Israel refused to release prisoners with "blood on their hands."

However, Kuntar's case now may be reviewed. The Israelis said the prisoner would be released after they receive "substantial proof" about what has happened to flyer Ron Arad.

Israel said that "with this arrangement, a mechanism has been put in place whose aim is to bring substantial information on the fate of captured navigator Ron Arad and his return home."

And I guess this is yet another way that Israel is trying to "stampede" us all into war with Iran; right, Buchanan? By bending over while this murderer walks.

re: #86 WriterMom

What a pile of crap.

If you want to stop being religious FINE. If you want to eat treif FINE, but don't throw all of Israel under the bus.

*I'M* throwing Israel under the bus? All I've said is that I no longer care when Kapo Olmert throws Israel under the bus and the Israelis don't fight back. Whatever happened to Israel being the Italy of the Middle East and replacing its government every few years? And yeah, Maine lobster is well worth eating when available (esp. since the Torah does not mention Maine lobster or S.F. crab; I do not eat Middle Eastern shellfish).

re: #59 SFGoth

In 2006, just after the Lebanon debacle, I chucked my Star of David necklace into the car trunk (it's now completely lost), stopped being religious, and have started to enjoy God's prize creation (lobster!). Seriously (the first 2 parts are true; I can't afford lobster), I no longer support Israel since I do not support people who won't support themselves.

You're an idiot.

Israel is not a democracy, as you understand it to be.

The Israeli people want to defend themselves, but there is no representative government and no method to remove a government, by the people themselves.

No such thing as a 'recall election' at the local level.

re: #102 SFGoth

esp. since the Torah does not mention Maine lobster or S.F. crab

Well, it doesn't specifically forbid stealing or murdering in San Francisco, either.

re: #97 Occasional Reader

It expalins the observable facts.

If you have a better theory, let's hear it. Otherwise, STFU.

It’s hard to imagine any way this can result in anything good. It will encourage the terrorists to continue taking more hostages, and lets them know they don’t even have to keep their hostages alive.

This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen.

Spot on.
I won't be in the position of those soldiers or their families. So take this for what it is worth, if I am ever in a hostage situation, I do not want the captors given an inch, even if it costs me my life. Better to curb future bloodshed than encourage it.

re: #74 Slumbering Behemoth

Here you go....

August, 2003

Israel agrees prisoner releases

Israel has said it will free around 440 Palestinian prisoners on Wednesday, fewer than originally thought.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had said last month that at least 500 would be released.

Sunday's announcement follows an Israeli cabinet committee meeting on the issue, an issue which correspondents say is fundamental to the success of the internationally-backed peace plan known as the roadmap.

The statement was marred by news of a shooting of an Israeli woman and three children.

They were wounded after a suspected Palestinian gunman fired on their car at the roadblock between Jerusalem and the West Bank town of Bethlehem, officials said.

It was not immediately clear who carried out the shooting, which left the mother and her nine-year-old daughter in a serious condition.

re: #106 Maine's Michael

Otherwise, STFU.

Such tough typing.

Yep, the only possible explanation for Israel's continued peril is that it's part of a genocidal plot by the evil Americans. Makes perfect sense.

You're as crazy as the Troofers.

Off to a meeting now. Have fun.

re: #108 jcm

Thank you, JCM.

re: #87 SeafoodGumbo

Remind me again what Israel got for forcibly evicting its people from Gaza.

That when in the coming war, Hezbollah fires missiles on Israel from Lebanon, Hamas will also from Gaza.

That way all of Israel can join in the fun times.

They should return Kuntar in the same state as they received Regev and Goldwaser - if they're dead they should not retunr him alive.

To do otherwise only encourages Hezballah and others not to keep captured Israelis alive as they get the same value for them if they are dead (and if dead take less resources to guard, feed, treatment etc).

This is just a very bad idea.

re: #103 Maine's Michael

You're an idiot.

Israel is not a democracy, as you understand it to be.

The Israeli people want to defend themselves, but there is no representative government and no method to remove a government, by the people themselves.

No such thing as a 'recall election' at the local level.

And maybe the most idological and dishonest Supreme Court anywhere in the Western world.

re: #23 redc1c4

i hope they have a tracker embedded in him somehow, and use it to guide a 2000 lb JDAM welcome home gift to his destination.

And to his family. It would be nicer than what he did.

re: #78 Golem Akbar

Kadima means Forward in Hebrew. Olmert is head of the Kadima Party. Irony is big in Hebrew.

Sounds a little like "progressive"...

Report: Released Prisoners Later Carried Out Fatal Attacks

he report, by the Almagor Terror Victims Association, demonstrates that at least 14 of the major terrorist attacks in recent years were carried out by terrorists released from prison in the context of various “good will gestures” and Israeli prisoner deals. All of them were released with assurances to the public that they did not have “blood on their hands,” – a euphemism for those prisoners whose deadly attacks failed to prove fatal.

Between the years 1993-1999, in the context of “confidence building measures” and prisoner deals, Israel released 6,912 terrorists. 854 of them (14%) were arrested subsequently for murder, attempted or otherwise. There are no statistics available for those who returned to non-fatal terrorist activities, instruction or logistical support.

“The mass killing due to these attacks included 123 murdered Israeli citizens, a huge number of victims with disabilities due to the attack and many other victims,” the report concludes. “In all the previous death-bargains, the overwhelming majority of those released returned to terrorist activities, at the cost of a huge destruction of life.”

re: #91 Lazarus

Our current administration has already done the same, releasing animals from Gitmo, and without any quid pro quo. Raw appeasement.

There was a time when the Bush Doctrine was still in effect, that that would not have happened.

Eight years of relentless Dem pummeling, influenced by Compassionate Conservativism (aka "turning the other cheek") have resulted in its untimely death, and the return of Baker/Hamilton.

re: #111 ploome hineni

......next arab Israeli war

(and there always is a next one)

Israel has 2 days to do the most damage possible, after which Israel is yanked back

but in 2 days, Israel must annihilate the enemy

Before Condie can get a call through to pull Olmert out of the war council and tell him to stand down the IDF.

re: #118 ploome hineni

the only reason Israel is still getting bombed ike that, is because the Israeli response, when it finally comes is measured

the Gazans need to lose 5000-10000 'fighters'

then maybe they will get a clue

I'm voting for the Iron Dome. I think they're getting close and we'll hear about kassams intercepted and falling back before they come over the border. Then wait for the toddler temper tantrum from Gaza.

re: #124 ploome hineni

yes

has to find a busy signal

Can only get away with that for 2 days. ;-)

re: #107 nikis-knight

Spot on.
I won't be in the position of those soldiers or their families. So take this for what it is worth, if I am ever in a hostage situation, I do not want the captors given an inch, even if it costs me my life. Better to curb future bloodshed than encourage it.

That is exactly the attitude it takes to win in this war.
Now I admit that if my husband or one of my kids were to be taken captive, I would probably give up everything, including common sense, to get them back. But a government is duty-bound to override my personal heartbreak for the sake of the common good and for the sake of fewer individual tragedies in the future.
Morality is crucial in leadership. Sentimentality is fatal.

re: #110 Occasional Reader

If that is how you interpret what was posted, you are stupid mistaken.

re: #122 ploome hineni

Israel wants it like that

if that was not acceptable, Israel would stop it

I guess so.

And the Palis are supposed to be the death cult.

May this scum die screaming.

Frankly, I'd like to see Olmert and Kantar in a pen on an Arkansas pig farm with their wrists tied together.

re: #128 ploome hineni

Oh.
/

re: #128 ploome hineni

We are our own worst enemies, truly. Same as always.

I can't begin to understand how it must feel to live in Israel. Ever since I can remember, (old lady whine) everyone has hated Israel. I imagine when almost every country on earth has been telling Israelis for a couple of generations that they are vile scum, you might start to internalize it. Every single psychological tactic designed to demonize Israelis has been utilized. How long can someone live under this massive hatred and have a healthy self-respect? The psychological war against Israel is unrelenting worldwide.

re: #134 yenta-fada

I can't begin to understand how it must feel to live in Israel. Ever since I can remember, (old lady whine) everyone has hated Israel. I imagine when almost every country on earth has been telling Israelis for a couple of generations that they are vile scum, you might start to internalize it. Every single psychological tactic designed to demonize Israelis has been utilized. How long can someone live under this massive hatred and have a healthy self-respect? The psychological war against Israel is unrelenting worldwide.

"yenta" -

Living well is the best revenge. Take it from there.

-S-

re: #134 yenta-fada

How long can someone live under this massive hatred and have a healthy self-respect?

About 2500 years, give or take.

re: #120 runrabbitrun

There was a time when the Bush Doctrine was still in effect, that that would not have happened.

Eight years of relentless Dem pummeling, influenced by Compassionate Conservativism (aka "turning the other cheek") have resulted in its untimely death, and the return of Baker/Hamilton.

Not even the Bush Doctrine implemented at its peak intensity (say, the onset of the war against the Taliban) could guarantee against such self-destructive acts as releasing foreign combatants. From the beginning, Bush and his appeasers crippled our self-defense with self-sacrificial rules of engagement, refused to name the enemy and defeat them with overwhelming, demoralizing destruction, wasted time and demonstrated moral weakness by conditioning our response on building a "coalition of the willing", and showered the enemy with material good and services produced by the very Americans these animals exist to kill! And that's just the short list of the sacrificial policies of this disgraceful President.

Disgusting, it will only encourage more kidnappings and deaths.
I very rarely say this, but I am ashamed of Israel for this.

re: #136 Maine's Michael

I take your point. We have been protected from the worst of this hatred in North America though. As for Dr. Shalit's 'living well', we've moved into a really nice condo.
I'm doing my part. :-)

re: #137 Lazarus

Lazarus -

Even the "Old Romans" only had ONE CARTHAGE EPISODE. The Idea is to defeat your enemy, then co-opt them.

-S-

re: #140 Dr. Shalit
I don't understand what you mean by "co-opt them".

I keep having a vision of this shit stepping off the bus, waving to his adoring fans and then his head exploding due to an Israeli Sniper.

re: #13 WriterMom

Charles-perhaps you could link this:

The World Should Know What Samir Kuntar Did To My Family

Thank you for the link.

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I keep having a vision of this shit stepping off the bus, waving to his adoring fans and then his head exploding due to an Israeli Sniper.

Courtesy of Ronny Barrett.

re: #145 ploome hineni

I keep going back to Joe Lieberman..and how he has been treated, and Obama

Look at what Joe Lieberman contributed to AMerica and look at Obama

do you think there could be a JEwish VP? or a Jewish candidate from a major party?

Liebarman was a Jewish VP candidate with Gore till the Dems kicked him out.

re: #93 Occasional Reader

I'd also be in favor of the Mossad giving Kantar the parting gift of a free "Mossad-customized" cellphone.

Now that would be a lovely parting gift.

Shmuel Rosner, writing in Slate, seems to think that most of the Israeli public supports this exchange. If that is true, then Israel is in more danger than I realized, and there is less to be done to save it than I hoped.

re: #105 Occasional Reader

Well, it doesn't specifically forbid stealing or murdering in San Francisco, either.

Obviously not since our local government does plenty of the former and can't or won't prosecute the latter. Kamala Harris for A.G.!

re: #141 Lazarus

Lazarus -

When and where possible to add the vanquished to your system of governance and commerce. The ROMANS were quite good at it once hostilities ceased.

-S-

re: #145 ploome hineni

I keep going back to Joe Lieberman..and how he has been treated, and Obama

Look at what Joe Lieberman contributed to AMerica and look at Obama

do you think there could be a JEwish VP? or a Jewish candidate from a major party?

"ploomie" -

Does "Fast Eddie" Rendell ring a bell?

-S-

re: #149 ContraJihadi

Shmuel Rosner, writing in Slate, seems to think that most of the Israeli public supports this exchange. If that is true, then Israel is in more danger than I realized, and there is less to be done to save it than I hoped.

You have to approach it from another perspective.

If the Israelis were so foolish as to take prisoners from among genocidal enemies, then it does little damage to give them back.

There is an endless pipeline of suicidal-genocidal 'militants' among the 300 million arabs of the middle east. Does 400 or even 4000 make a difference?

They will be on the other side of a well defended border, and will have no more motivation and skill than the millions of other potential murderers of Jews on that other side of the border.

In return, Israel gets back the precious bodies of its fallen, their loved ones can mourn, and the nation's sense of identity and unity is strengthened by this manifestation of communal humanity and morality.

(That is the best spin I can put on this)

re: #156 ploome hineni

ploomie - Current Governor of Pennsylvania. -S-

re: #137 Lazarus

Not even the Bush Doctrine implemented at its peak intensity (say, the onset of the war against the Taliban) could guarantee against such self-destructive acts as releasing foreign combatants. From the beginning, Bush and his appeasers crippled our self-defense with self-sacrificial rules of engagement, refused to name the enemy and defeat them with overwhelming, demoralizing destruction, wasted time and demonstrated moral weakness by conditioning our response on building a "coalition of the willing", and showered the enemy with material good and services produced by the very Americans these animals exist to kill! And that's just the short list of the sacrificial policies of this disgraceful President.

Sorry, though I'm disappointed with Bush as CiC of the Iraq campaign - and winning any war depends not just upon initial strategy, but in being able to react and re-define strategy as events on the ground develop - I don't believe that turning the cities, towns and villages of Iraq into parking lots, killing tens of millions of innocents (as Saddam did) would have won the broader war against stateless terrorists using the country as its central battlefront, rather than properly implementing the current model for fighting insurgencies developed by General Petraeus.

And the rabbit's a pretty bloodthirsty hawk.

re: #146 ploome hineni

claim their history and birthright

like the muslims are doing to the JEws

Why should we care to act like victimized savages, devolving into endless tribalistic, mystical grievances against Muslims just because that's what they do to the Jews? We shouldn't. We should act like Americans, which means to value our freedom to live as individuals, and wipe out anyone who is out to destroy that freedom.

Even "claiming" someone's history is nonsense. Muslims have their own sequence of historical events, and it is an indescribably savage one. They can keep it. "Birthright" is an anti-concept. One does not gain the right to material wealth by birth, but by earning it, trading value for value. The notion that Iraqis or any other Muslim savages have the right to the oil beneath their feet is one of the most immoral myths there is. Before the West discovered it and made a value out of it, it was useless, inert black gunk to those tribal animals. It is not some random Iraqi's to barter with or claim as his. He can only recognize it as a value because Western oil companies made it so. But the West accepted the guilt thrown at them, and Bush is happy to perpetuate that self-sacrifice, when that oil rightfully belongs to America, who, once again, liberated its use from tyrants.

re: #2 MJ

"This is one of the most counter-productive, self-defeating moves I’ve ever seen."

actually, letting Olmert stay in office despite incredible stupidity, bungling the war with hezbollah, and being investigated for FOUR (4) major money laundering and bribe scandals, is unbelievable. Not to mention disgusting, and outrageous. What Kuntar deserves is a bullet behind his left ear.
His day will come.
(I recommend jail time for the idiot Olmert)

re: #153 Dr. Shalit

Lazarus -

When and where possible to add the vanquished to your system of governance and commerce. The ROMANS were quite good at it once hostilities ceased.

-S-

We should not wish to govern Iraqis. They do not want to recognize and protect individual rights. They want to elevate the tribe to a political primary. We don't have the cultural will to claim what material wealth is rightly ours by virtue of our having liberated it.

We should not be taking cues from the Roman Empire. It was a military dictatorship that annihilated the individual rights of its citizens.

On top of the farce that is this latest prisoner swap, Israeli President Shimon Peres has granted a pardon to Kuntar.

Why?

re: #157 Maine's Michael

It is spin, but it's a comforting one to the families who put their trust in the military to keep their loved ones safe and to keep all of Israel safe from attack. They want to know that they'll get their loved ones back no matter what, even though most would not want to see prisoner swaps for their loved ones.

re: #164 lawhawk

On top of the farce that is this latest prisoner swap, Israeli President Shimon Peres has granted a pardon to Kuntar.

Why?

Why not?

(old Jewish joke . . . .)

It is ridiculous.

But who better than Peres to do it?

re: #160 runrabbitrun

Sorry, though I'm disappointed with Bush as CiC of the Iraq campaign - and winning any war depends not just upon initial strategy, but in being able to react and re-define strategy as events on the ground develop - I don't believe that turning the cities, towns and villages of Iraq into parking lots, killing tens of millions of innocents (as Saddam did) would have won the broader war against stateless terrorists using the country as its central battlefront, rather than properly implementing the current model for fighting insurgencies developed by General Petraeus.

And the rabbit's a pretty bloodthirsty hawk.

Revising military strategy is appropriate as long as it doesn't compromise on the conviction to destroy the enemy as quickly and effectively as possible, while minimizing our losses. The only way to do that is to take the locks off our arsenal and our will to fight and break the enemy's will to fight, destroying their material and cultural means to wage war.

This is another myth that terrorists operate against the will of the state. Muslim governments welcome and support terrorist gangs operating in their borders, and only object to those gangs that don't have their imprimatur on them. But to the extent that a government cannot control terrorists within their borders, they have absolutely no claim against another country defending itself by attacking them on their turf! By what right do Afghani tribalists say, even though our country is in chaos and we can't control aggression against other nations, they have no right to fight back on our land? That is total bullshit.

On the day we decide to fight, we will win. The terrorists will stop cold. Until we do, we will continue our slow, but accelerating, suicide.

re: #1 MandyManners

Olmert, you're a fucking idiot.

And a sexist idiot to boot - he basically said he's committing this act of attempted national suicide for all the mothers out there.
BLEEEEECH.

re: #6 lawhawk

Olmert got the cabinet to sign off. They're just as culpable.

And Hizbullah will be celebrating with parties.

In regards to those "partys", all I can say is,

TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT!

(Oh, please, IDF, oh please...)

JAFLW

re: #170 ploome hineni

you asked a question, I gave you an answer

what are you babbling?

I understand your answer. I reject it as a legitimate political strategy for the reasons I gave.

Olmert and the ridiculous leftists in the cabinet approves this deal. But the Israeli intelligence agencies will try not to let this guy slip out of their sight. They probably won't kill him now, but the next time Hizballah attacks, he will be on the hitlist.

I really hope somehow, some good will come out of this. It just seems so wrong to let this guy go, along with 900 prisoners, that I can't imagine the Israelis haven't thought of some way that this will bring some kind of good to them. Maybe I am just dreaming though. What a sad day when evil triumphs over good.

re: #172 ploome hineni

doesn't matter that you reject it

that is what is happening!

I understand that perfectly well that Muslims are claiming Israel's history as theirs . Dr. Shalit's solution was, "The Idea is to defeat your enemy, then co-opt them." I was rejecting this notion of claiming Islam's history as ours on the grounds that they did this to the Jews and because that's how the Romans would have handled it. That's all I was saying.

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

The exchange should be an identical one.

/My drift?

maybe a little ricin in his last meal

re: #175 ploome hineni

it is incomprehensible how you would ever think I would write that or even suggest that

lolol

I was responding to Dr. Shalit's suggestion in my response to your explanation of "co-opt". I guess I should have made it clear that I was attributing this strategy to him and not you.

re: #176 redc1c4

maybe a little ricin in his last meal

A 2 hour X-Ray as part of his final physical.

A brief note of the killing of innocents in war. The responsibility of the death of innocents does not hang on the country that is retaliating against aggression. It belongs to the aggressor government that made retaliation, and the death of innocents, necessary.

Putting aside the release issue, it's outrageous that he was able to get married and receive conjugal visits while in prison.

re: #136 Maine's Michael

About 2500 years, give or take.

wait..what year is it in the Jewish calendar?

year: 5768!

I think tomorrow will be an interesting day...hijinx ensued...

re: #155 ploome hineni

what is the point of holding the arabs in Israeli jails?

they get out sooner or later and they want to kill Jews again

it is not like they are getting rehabilitated; getting their JED or taking college courses, to find a good job when they are released

and why should Israel pay to have their teeth cleaned

feh

Who give a ff if they're rehabilitated? Or if their teeth rot, for that matter.

The point is, in jail they won't murder more Israelis. Released, they will. And they'll inspire others to do so. And the whole sorry mess is nothing short of an engraved invitation to kidnap and murder more Israeli soldiers to get still more scumbags out of jail. Let them all out? They'll find another reason to kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers. They've been taught that it works.

But you already know that.

I object to the release of this man insofar as he will be immediately escorted to the protective embrace of his Hamas brethren. Rather a shame that he will not be turned loose on the streets of Tel Aviv following private notification of the location and time of his parole from captivity to the child's parents.

Tavor TAR-21 assault rifle: US$ 685.00
Digital camera for the pics: US$ 250.00
Cab fare to the release site: US$ 15.26

The look on the face of your child's killer as his chest explodes from the impact of the bullets: PRICELESS

From PMW:
[Link: www.pmw.org.il....]

After the killing of international terrorist Imad Mughniyeh in Syria three months ago, Kuntar wrote a letter to Nasrallah in which he glorified terrorists and martyrdom, and vowed to continue in the path of terror "until complete victory."

The following is the text of the Kuntar letter:

"My dear and honored commander and leader, The Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah,

Peace be unto you and our Shahids, and may Allah's mercy and blessing be upon you.

Peace be unto the men in the convoys of the righteous.

Peace be unto he who has [given and has] not taken anything other than the Shahadah (Martyrdom), the highest rank of honor before Allah.

Peace be unto the distinguished, glamorous convoys [of Shahids] who travel toward eternity, toward the men of glory, dignity and pride, toward those who have marked our path for hundreds of years.

Peace be unto the last to leave, the Hajj and leader, Imad Mughniyeh.

Peace be unto him, as he passes the message on to those who await his arrival, as he brings them stories of the glory and victories, news of steadfastness and loyalty of the men of the fulfilled promise [a reference to the operation in which the two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped which was called the 'Fulfilling the Promise',] news of "those who still wait [for Shahadah]; but they have never changed (their determination for Shahada)." [Quote from Quran, Sura 33:23.]

Peace be unto him, as he announces to the most honored among the Believers [previous Shahids] that the waiting convoys have chosen [they await the Shahadah] to draw their swords, and their swords are calling out: "We are far from degradation" [a Nasrallah's phrase].

May peace be unto you, Hajj Imad. My oath and pledge is that my place will be at the battlefront, which is soaked in the sweat of your giving, and the blood of the most beloved among men [Shahids], and that I shall continue down the path, until complete victory.

I give to you, Sir Abu Hadi [name for Hassan Nasrallah] and to all the Jihad Figthers, my congratulations and [my] renewed loyalty."

[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, February 19, 2008]

LGFers,

As an Israeli (and American citizen as well), and having lived in Israel for the past four years and followed current events here practically by the minute, I can assure all of you that this decision by the impotent and useless Olmert government is one that is wrenching every heart in this nation, even those of the politicians who are unfortunately charged with carrying it out.

We know it is a bad deal. Everyone knows it. If anyone in the world recognizes the futility and stupidity of negotiating with terrorists, it is the nation that pulled off Entebbe, exacted revenge against Abdel Rantisi, and the wheelchair-bound Sheik in Gaza, and countless other murderers in this country and around the world.

We know it is a terrible deal. But everyone here also knows that it must be carried out. This deal, as bad as it is, is a necessity. We have no choice, given the depravity of our enemies.

If there is any bright spot in this dark disgusting event taking place, it is the fact that the deal goes a long way towards showing us and the world that Israel is a nation that values and appreciates life, that recognizes there is a duty to return soldiers back to their families, alive or dead, that unlike our neighbors, Israel glorifies the value of a life, the value of having served this country, and the value of getting the proper respectful funeral a soldier deserves. Our enemies value and glorify only the exact opposites.

One can only hope that the Mossad will take care of Samir Kuntar in due time, sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, you may accuse Israel of making a bad deal, of enabling future kidnap attempts, of emboldening terrorists.....all of which is probably true. (We'll just hope that the IDF is better prepared the next time the death-loving bastards try something.) But you can't accuse Israel of not having a heart. You can't accuse her of not valuing the life of a soldier, even if he gave it up in battle. You can't accuse her of not wanting to bring peace of mind to the families of those who died protecting this country from the scourge of terrorism. You just can't. As bad as all the consequences of this deal are, I find myself extremely proud today in the face of this hated and sorrowful trade-off.

Israel should release their prisoner in the same condition as kidnapped soldiers.

re: #175 ploome hineni

I was rejecting this notion of claiming Islam's history as ours on the grounds that they did this to the Jews and because that's how the Romans would have handled it.

Were the Romans in charge today they would have handled the Islamic problem in much the same manner the handled the Carthaginian problem.

To paraphrase Cato: Islamo delenda est!

There's only one way to deal with Hezbollah...slaughter them. And, the United States ought to be helping the Israelis do it. This is just as much our fight as it is theirs.

Peres is a nitwit.

re: #49 Maine's Michael

MM - I hope you just forgot the bitter /sarc/ tag.

Would the dead Israel soldiers being returned want this exchange to happen? My guess is no.

My personal feeling is that this guy should never of been taken prisoner, if you know what I'm sayin. Which I think you do. Pliers and a blow torch anyone? Just sayin.

/I'm just sayin.

re: #167 Lazarus

On the day we decide to fight, we will win. The terrorists will stop cold. Until we do, we will continue our slow, but accelerating, suicide.

Your theories might have been practical in a bygone world with far boundaries of time dividing nations, on a globe with countries of more ethnic homogeneity, and with formal armies rather than tens of thousands of neighborhood gangs of fighters, but would fail utterly in modern warfare and that of the future.

Insurgencies and militias are born because of the inability of insurgents to compete on standard battlefields. Adopt your policies, possibly destroy much of the Middle East (and probably our own oil supply in the process), and the insurgents' key battlegrounds in generations to come will arise in London, Paris, and Washington and Dearborn. In these capitals it will be impossible to implement your theories, killing both the innocent and the guilty, the human shields and those being shielded, in some show of pure military might.

And the U.S has hardly even begun to be suicidal. We've managed to bottle up al Queda's leaders, disable their command and control centers, and stop the movement of money, highly trained men and intelligence that could be used in any significant strikes against us - again, all without the mass murder which would alienate our allies, not just our enemies, which would happen if you had the reins.

I do appreciate your sharing of military philosophies. Since we clearly don't agree from a foundational level, and since this is not the proper venue for lengthier comparative analysis or debate, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree..

Personally, I'll stick with General Petraeus. I thank the west's lucky stars that geniuses with practical, on the ground military command experience like Petraeus are in charge.

Hopefully, they've implanted a GPS chip somewhere in him, to facilitate the JDAM strike when he gets his heroe's welcome from Nasrallah.

Even if they haven't, what would be the harm in letting him *think* they have?

This seems like proof that not only do we not learn from history, some are so blind they don't want to learn from recent history...

What are the chances of a no-confidence vote against the Olmert government sometime soon?

Those people need to be booted from office.

I am disgusted! Olmert is a fool...

Well he had to give them Something. He didn't happen to pick the lowest collateral on the totem pole, but the had to give them Something. Still makes me wander what all he's up to ($100K)

Shoulddn't the Israelis do what their Islamist enemies have always done and just capture everyone who comes to the "exchange" and hold them hostage until any live IDF prisoners are released?

re: #13 WriterMom

Charles-perhaps you could link this:

The World Should Know What Samir Kuntar Did To My Family

Every single time I read about this poor Family I cry a little.

re: #197 miguelj

Hopefully, they've implanted a GPS chip somewhere in him, to facilitate the JDAM strike when he gets his heroe's welcome from Nasrallah.

Even if they haven't, what would be the harm in letting him *think* they have?

I hope he gets a hellfire up his stovepipe

re: #11 researchok

They will release Kuntar.

In a little while, they will track him down and administer the justice he so richly deserves. They will slaughter him like the pig he is.

The Israelis will do to Kuntar and his ilk what they did to the Munich murderers.

Forgetta bout it! Yes, Israel has released terrorists before, including accomplices in suicide bombing (talk about a loop-hole, terrorist dead, but we release the guy who sent him). No doubt if Kuntar ever decided to visit Israel on a tourist visa he would get into trouble, but he is quite likely to live the rest of his life as a certified "Arab hero".

re: #131 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Frankly, I'd like to see Olmert and Kantar in a pen on an Arkansas pig farm with their wrists tied together.

I didn't think pigs had wrists...... Maybe they do in Arkansas.

Today isn't the day for hand wringing over this deal. Today, this deal is the best that Israel could negotiate.

The time to get a better deal was two years ago, when the hostages were taken and in the days that followed. There are things that Israel might have been able to do at that time to make this turn out more in their favor. But that time is past.

All I can hope is that Israel will be prepared at the next kidnapping event and make things turn out better.

I keep thinking about ads for roach poison: "with our special XYZ formula. Sprinkle it where they congregate; they track it back to the nest, so ONE TREATMENT can ELIMINATE THE ENTIRE NEST"!

I suppose the Israelis are WAAYY too decent to dust him lightly with plutonium and send him back to his nest, hmmm?

re: #188 nahmiase

We have no choice, given the depravity of our enemies.

No. Israel does have a choice. That choice is to reject this utterly immoral act. It is this "we have no choice" mindset that encourages the terrorists to fight on another day. Israelis should be taking to the street en masse over this wicked act by their corrupt government.

If there is any bright spot in this dark disgusting event taking place, it is the fact that the deal goes a long way towards showing us and the world that Israel is a nation that values and appreciates life

Newsflash: Much (or most) of the "world" hates the Jews and hates Israel, and nothing Israel does is going to change that. Did the "world" love Israel more after Oslo? How about after the withdrawal from Lebanon? After the evacuation from Gaza? If you want world sympathy, let the Arabs perpetrate the holocaust they crave. But if you want to live, do what needs to be done. Moreover, you don't show an appreciation of life by setting ruthless killers loose in the world. It is time for the Israelis to wake up out of their stupor.

FOX NEWS IS REPORTING THE TWO "BODIES" OF GOLDWASSER AND REGEV HAVE ARRIVED AT THE BORDER FOR EXCHANGE.

I was 99% sure this is how it would be, but I was clinging to the 1% hope that at least one of them would be alive.

re: #102 SFGoth

why should we care?

re: #188 nahmiase

LGFers,

As an Israeli (and American citizen as well), and having lived in Israel for the past four years and followed current events here practically by the minute, I can assure all of you that this decision by the impotent and useless Olmert government is one that is wrenching every heart in this nation, even those of the politicians who are unfortunately charged with carrying it out.

We know it is a bad deal. Everyone knows it. If anyone in the world recognizes the futility and stupidity of negotiating with terrorists, it is the nation that pulled off Entebbe, exacted revenge against Abdel Rantisi, and the wheelchair-bound Sheik in Gaza, and countless other murderers in this country and around the world.

We know it is a terrible deal. But everyone here also knows that it must be carried out. This deal, as bad as it is, is a necessity. We have no choice, given the depravity of our enemies.

If there is any bright spot in this dark disgusting event taking place, it is the fact that the deal goes a long way towards showing us and the world that Israel is a nation that values and appreciates life, that recognizes there is a duty to return soldiers back to their families, alive or dead, that unlike our neighbors, Israel glorifies the value of a life, the value of having served this country, and the value of getting the proper respectful funeral a soldier deserves. Our enemies value and glorify only the exact opposites.

One can only hope that the Mossad will take care of Samir Kuntar in due time, sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, you may accuse Israel of making a bad deal, of enabling future kidnap attempts, of emboldening terrorists.....all of which is probably true. (We'll just hope that the IDF is better prepared the next time the death-loving bastards try something.) But you can't accuse Israel of not having a heart. You can't accuse her of not valuing the life of a soldier, even if he gave it up in battle. You can't accuse her of not wanting to bring peace of mind to the families of those who died protecting this country from the scourge of terrorism. You just can't. As bad as all the consequences of this deal are, I find myself extremely proud today in the face of this hated and sorrowful trade-off.

Well said.

To Those ranting about how "stupid" Olmert is and how this is a bad deal: You're not special and you dont know anything we don't already know here in Israel. Olmert is for once not to blame here either, the Israeli public demands this exchange. We want Karnit Goldwasser (one of the captive soldier's wife) to be able to move on and continue her life. We don't want another Ron Arad. We want every young Israeli soldier and new recruit to know that Israel stands by its promise to return every son from the battlefield regardless of his condition. Maybe its a lopsided deal, maybe its illogical. But what in this struggle is rational? When has this battle been even-sided? Why do we protect our citizens and they use them as human-bombs?

Will the UN and Red Cross demand an investigation of the torture and killing of prisoners of war?

re: #188 nahmiase

As a Jew and an Israeli, I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

The nation which used to abide by the commandment "Thou shalt not be a freyer (sucker)" has completely lost its way.

Israel should not have used its heart; it should have used its mind. Misplaced emphasis on the legitimate and genuine feelings of the Goldwassers and Regevs has only resulted in a situation which will ensure that there will be other Israeli families who find themselves in that position, God forbid.

#212 akrav mentioned not wanting another Ron Arad. Do you realize that Israel just traded live prisoners for bodies to the only people in the world who know what happened to Ron Arad, and for some reason they were unable to get his body back as well?

You yourself, nahmiase, realize that this deal is bad, and that it was made by the "impotent and useless Olmert government", but you fail to put the puzzle together. This isn't the best deal Israel could make. It's the best deal Olmert could make to ward off the latest scandal which should cost him his job.

While I understand that some people feel the need for self-delusion on an occasion like this, let's be honest. This is a shameful for Israel.

For those interested, the best analysis of the moral and legal issues involved in the swap, from a military and Jewish-legal perspective, I have seen.

Can't the Israelis implant their prisoners with explosive suppositories and detonate them as soon as the prisoner swap is concluded? That would be like the legend of Julius Ceasar burning his ships once he reached the shores of Britian, nobody would want to swap prisoners with Israel again.

re: #216 arminiusteuton

Can't the Israelis implant their prisoners with explosive suppositories and detonate them as soon as the prisoner swap is concluded? That would be like the legend of Julius Ceasar burning his ships once he reached the shores of Britian, nobody would want to swap prisoners with Israel again.

In this case, Israel is the only one swapping prisoners. Hezbollah is returning bodies.

From the BBC:

Lebanon has declared a national holiday to mark the swap, after which Israel will hold no more Hezbollah militants.

The BBC's Crispin Thorold in Beirut says the exchange will be a moment of jubilation for Hezbollah, who are claiming the deal as a victory.

A red carpet ceremony has been prepared in Naqoura, where patriotic songs and excerpts of speeches by Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah bellowed from loudspeakers and roads were festooned with celebratory banners and Hezbollah and Lebanese flags.

"Lebanon is shedding tears of joy - Israel is shedding tears of pain," said one banner at the border, where crowds of people waited to welcome home loved ones or receive their remains.

I am at a loss for words, on how to describe this....:(