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IslamOnline: Why Muslims Should Support Intelligent Design

Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:44:38 pm PDT

When they aren’t busy praising Osama bin Laden or applauding Hamas for murdering Jews, the Wahhabi propaganda site IslamOnline is fully on board with the Discovery Institute and their “intelligent design” hoax: Why Muslims Should Support Intelligent Design.

Intellectual Muslims, fed up with the pathological anti-Western hatred of the radicals who defame Islam by their violent acts, are seeking the right way to express and stand for their faith and identity in the modern world.

Intellectual Christians have already found that way. They encountered materialism before we did, because it grew right in the heart of Christendom. They have been standing against it for several decades. And recently they have initiated a bold movement—a “wedge” as they call it—to split the foundations of materialism.

This “wedge” is the code name for the Intelligent Design Movement, formed in the early 1990s by Christian scientists and intellectuals. The leader of the movement is Phillip E. Johnson, a prominent professor of law from the University of California, Berkeley. During a sabbatical year in London in 1987, Dr. Johnson read about Darwinism and noticed that Darwinian ideologues like Richard Dawkins use deceptive arguments to sell their unsubstantiated story. He decided to dedicate the rest of life to unravel this sophisticated fallacy. His first book, Darwin on Trial (1991), annoyed the Darwinist establishment terribly, but it was just a beginning. In the following years, serious scientists like Michael Behe from Lehigh University, William Dembski from Baylor University, and Paul Nelson from the University of Chicago joined the ranks of the movement.

Today the movement, headed by the Discovery Institute in Seattle and the Intelligent Design Network in Kansas, is leading a great battle first to free school textbooks and then the whole of society from the Darwinist dogma and the materialist philosophy it supports.

Intelligent Design (ID) is a term that implies creation. The universe and life are not products of blind forces of nature, ID holds, but show evidence that they were designed by an intelligence. The ID Movement has deliberately chosen not to specify the identity of the Designer. Through science you can demonstrate convincingly that there is a designer, but you can’t go further without invoking theology. Everybody has the right to believe in a Designer according his own theology. What makes the movement effective is its emphasis on solid scientific evidence.

This non-theological nature of the ID Movement also makes it inter-religious. Whether you are a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or any other kind of theist, you can identify with the movement. This movement defines the particular paradigm of science we would like to have, and it is science that defines society in the long run.

Muslims should also note the great similarity between the arguments of the Intelligent Design Movement and Islamic sources. Hundreds of verses in the Qur’an call people to examine the natural world and see in it the evidence of God. Great Islamic scholars like Ghazali wrote large volumes about design in animals, plants, and the human body. What Intelligent Design theorists like Behe or Dembski do today is to refine the same argument with the findings of modern science.

In short, Intelligent Design is not alien to Islam. It is very much our cause, and we should do everything we can to support it.

Notice that they know exactly what the Wedge Strategy is all about, and they highly approve of it.

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1 Opilio  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:45:11pm

Hey Walter! Here's your thread!

2 pegcity  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:45:12pm

there is no compulsion in islam

/do it!

3 stuck in california  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:46:18pm

You go, Charles!

4 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:46:39pm

Wish, and it shall be granted!
(sometimes...)

5 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:46:43pm

Hey, Islam, compulse this.

6 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:47:18pm

What testable, falsifiable hypotheses does ID put forth? What testable, falsifiable theories have been presented by the DI? On what grounds can the DI claim that ID is a scientific theory?

For bonus points, use the following criteria:

1. Define the question
2. Gather information and resources (observe)
3. Form hypothesis
4. Perform experiment and collect data
5. Analyze data
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
7. Publish results
8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

/Lather, rinse, repeat

7 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:47:21pm

Ouch!

8 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:48:31pm

"Academic freedom" will apply to Islamists too. Make no mistake about it.

9 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:48:43pm

I love this paragraph.

"Muslims should also note the great similarity between the arguments of the Intelligent Design Movement and Islamic sources. Hundreds of verses in the Qur’an call people to examine the natural world and see in it the evidence of God. Great Islamic scholars like Ghazali wrote large volumes about design in animals, plants, and the human body. What Intelligent Design theorists like Behe or Dembski do today is to refine the same argument with the findings of modern science."

It makes it sound like the ID movement got all their arguments from "Islamic sources."

Well, I guess their right. They did invent EVERYTHING, right?

Walter in Golden, Co.

10 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:49:15pm

Okay, for the ID'ers. If life was designed by a great being, he probably left a message somewhere. Look at DNA inertons. If you can find a message there I will believe.

/start digging and decoding folks.

11 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:49:17pm
In short, Intelligent Design is not alien to Islam. It is very much our cause, and we should do everything we can to support it.

And this is exactly what many of us have been saying to the IDers all along- you let ID into the science classroom and islam will follow.

Deny this at your own peril!

12 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:49:42pm

Islam will always start off on the wrong foot with creation when they insist that the earth is flat.

I will also refuse to allow myself to be duped by the ecumenical hugfest proposed when I know that I will lose my head, and my daughter would be "married" off and raped.

13 Tigger2005  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:50:07pm
What makes the movement effective is its emphasis on solid scientific evidence.

Well, there's something solid there, but I think it's waste.

14 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:50:59pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

"Academic freedom" will apply to Islamists too. Make no mistake about it.

And what should stop it from being in history class either? Hello Holocaust revisionism.

15 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:51:06pm

well, *that's* a harsh toke....... %-)

that's not gonna go over well in certain circles.

/adding an extra layer on the overhead cover and closing the hatch

16 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:52:58pm

re: #10 BlueCanuck

Okay, for the ID'ers. If life was designed by a great being, he probably left a message somewhere. Look at DNA inertons. If you can find a message there I will believe.

/start digging and decoding folks.

G*d is female:
that's why nothing makes any sense to us, and we can't figure out the message......

/white smoke

17 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:54:24pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

How many times did you post this on that thread earlier? 3? 4?

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:54:31pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

That's a very important point. Al-Ghazali is credited with the destruction of the Islamic world in the 11th century through his work The Incoherence of the Philosophers in which he rejected the Greek philosophers with their "reason", "logic" and "imperical evidence" as heretical because they didn't account for the wisdom of Allah as revealed in the Quran. There is a very strong parallel between the Disco Institute and Al- Ghazali and it could result in a similar collapse in our civilization as well.

19 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:54:46pm

re: #16 redc1c4

G*d is female:
that's why nothing makes any sense to us, and we can't figure out the message......

/white smoke

I am sure there are enough female scientists to do any decoding.

/any more room in your shelter?

20 kevinmumaw  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:54:47pm

re: #2 pegcity

there is no compulsion in islam

/do it!

Do it.

21 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:55:49pm

re: #10 BlueCanuck

Okay, for the ID'ers. If life was designed by a great being, he probably left a message somewhere. Look at DNA inertons. If you can find a message there I will believe.

/start digging and decoding folks.

I think I found something here:

C-H-E-C-K
Y-O-U-R
F-L-Y

Huh?

22 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:55:55pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

That's a very important point. Al-Ghazali is credited with the destruction of the Islamic world in the 11th century through his work The Incoherence of the Philosophers in which he rejected the Greek philosophers with their "reason", "logic" and "imperical evidence" as heretical because they didn't account for the wisdom of Allah as revealed in the Quran. There is a very strong parallel between the Disco Institute and Al- Ghazali and it could result in a similar collapse in our civilization as well.

Ah, what you said.

23 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:56:03pm

re: #16 redc1c4

G*d is female: that's why nothing makes any sense to us, and we can't figure out the message......

/white smoke

Um, again, sorry, but if G-d declares Himself to be the Father, and He is a female are you not adding weight to argument that man is woman and woman is man and each can marry the same or either/or?

Just askin?

24 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:56:08pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

Yup, CAIR would love to teach Civics and Western Civ through an Islamist filter. "Academic Freedom" would permit it, no problem.

25 Charles  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:57:16pm

Notice that they know exactly what the Wedge Strategy is all about, and they highly approve of it.

26 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:57:29pm

re: #19 BlueCanuck

I am sure there are enough female scientists to do any decoding.

/any more room in your shelter?


Shouldnt females be in the kitchen with a swag of young'ns under foot?

[sprints for shelter]

27 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:57:33pm

"...contemporary Muslim intellectuals like Harun Yahya put great emphasis on the case against materialism and its main pillar, Darwinism."

"...there is good news. We are not alone in this battle. There is another powerful component in the West that is determined to root out materialism. That force is Christianity."

Said Nursi, in the 1950s, foresaw an alliance between Islam and Christianity against materialism. He prophetically wrote, “A tyrannical current born of naturalist and materialist philosophy will gradually gain strength and spread at the end of time, reaching such a degree that it denies God. ... Although defeated before the atheistic current while separate, Christianity and Islam will have the capability to defeat and rout it as a result of their alliance” (Nursi, Letters, s. 77-78). Half a century after Nursi, the stage for that alliance is set.

Sal: Uh-huh...Methinks the roots of the Yahya and Disco trees have inextricably intertwined underground...

28 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:59:14pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton
Al-Ghazali.....

"The Naturalists (al-tabi'yun): They are a group of people who are constantly studying the natural world and the wonders of animals and plants. They are frequendy engaging in the science of anatomy/dissection ('Urn al-tashiih) of animal bodies, and through it they perceive the wonders of God's design and the marvels of His wisdom. With this they are compelled to acknowledge a wise Creator Who is aware of die ends and purposes of things. No one can study anatomy/dissection and the wonders of the utilities of the parts widiout deducing this unavoidable inference—that is, the perfection of the design of the Creator with regard to the structure (binyah) of animals and especially the structure of humans.

Sounds like the Disco Institute to me.

29 Tigger2005  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:59:25pm

These people are weak, and spoiled, and ignorant of history, and tired of freedom. It's just too HARD. They want to be ruled by absolute religious certainty, and they'll take Muslim help to make that happen. Then they'll find out why their forefathers fled Europe...and why Muslim countries are such hellholes of Muslims killing Muslims.

30 Ojoe  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:00:38pm

O for the wisdom of the Catholic church in this matter!
Christianity & evoution are compatable

Charles thank you for featuring this issue, it is a trap.

31 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:00:47pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Al-Ghazali.....
The Naturalists (al-tabi'yun): They are a group of people who are constantly studying the natural world and the wonders of animals and plants. They are frequendy engaging in the science of anatomy/dissection ('Urn al-tashiih) of animal bodies, and through it they perceive the wonders of God's design and the marvels of His wisdom. With this they are compelled to acknowledge a wise Creator Who is aware of die ends and purposes of things. No one can study anatomy/dissection and the wonders of the utilities of the parts widiout deducing this unavoidable inference—that is, the perfection of the design of the Creator with regard to the structure (binyah) of animals and especially the structure of humans.

Sounds like the Disco Institute to me.

Sounds like haruspicy to me.

32 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:00:54pm

re: #26 A Kiwi Infidel

Only if red approves, and you come with supplies.

/the stronger the better.

33 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:02:05pm
Intellectual Muslims, fed up with the pathological anti-Western hatred of the radicals who defame Islam by their violent acts, are seeking the right way to express and stand for their faith and identity in the modern world.

Right idea, wrong direction.

34 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:02:26pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Yup, CAIR would love to teach Civics and Western Civ through an Islamist filter. "Academic Freedom" would permit it, no problem.

And guys like pat buchanan could be used as additional "education" resources.

Lovely.

35 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:03:10pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Excellent use of scare quotes, there!

36 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:03:31pm

re: #34 Sharmuta

Not to mention Howard Zinn and Ward Chuchhill...

37 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:03:37pm

re: #25 Charles

I did.

38 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:03:38pm

re: #27 Salamantis

I've noticed that most of those who want "you" to denouce materialism (for your soul)--really just want "you" to give "them" your stuff so they don't have to work/steal it for themselves.

39 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:05:06pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

So do a lot of hymns. And they're better poetry (well, actually, since all I know of the Koran is translation, and poetry doesn't translate, that may be unjust).

40 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:06:06pm
This non-theological nature of the ID Movement also makes it inter-religious. Whether you are a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or any other kind of theist, you can identify with the movement. This movement defines the particular paradigm of science we would like to have, and it is science that defines society in the long run.

Which means no science at all and society, in the long run, becomes the ummah.

41 Charles  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:06:21pm

Are you kidding me? Now we have someone preaching "end times" in the zombie thread?

42 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:07:47pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Yes!

I stopped talking about that more than a year ago, since no one seemed interested. Thanks for reviving a truly excellent point - that islam has gone backwards, even in its own terms.

43 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:08:11pm

re: #38 ggt

I've noticed that most of those who want "you" to denouce materialism (for your soul)--really just want "you" to give "them" your stuff so they don't have to work/steal it for themselves.

Nice broad brush, that.

44 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:08:14pm

I wonder if there are any defenders of the DI and the Wedge strategy here tonight that would venture to comment on this parallel.

45 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:08:21pm

re: #17 reine.de.tout


How many times did you post this on that thread earlier? 3? 4?

Three times, all to the same poster, ignored every time. I've thought about spamming these ID threads with that message, but I don't want to test anyone's patience, least of all our host's.

46 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:08:52pm

re: #38 ggt

I've noticed that most of those who want "you" to denouce materialism (for your soul)--really just want "you" to give "them" your stuff so they don't have to work/steal it for themselves.

They want you to have to give them your stuff...and your freedom, too. The latter worries me more. With freedom, I can earn enough to buy more stuff, but no amount of stuff will buy my freedom.

I'd have to take it back...by force. Which is the only way that they're gonna get it from me in the first place. And my life and my freedom are a package deal; you can't have the second as long as I still have the first.

47 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:09:02pm

re: #41 Charles

Are you kidding me? Now we have someone preaching "end times" in the zombie thread?


Really? Off we go.............

48 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:09:23pm

re: #42 Dianna

I thought islam was trying to reach the nadir of perfection for their religion. The 8th century.

49 Charles  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:09:29pm

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

50 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:09:45pm

re: #41 Charles

I was watching it happen. So, yes.

My youth group leader was telling us we were in the end times back in the 1970's. People kept telling me that the 1980's were it, then the 1990's.

Heck, the number of "end times" throughout history - including my personal favorite, the turn of the year 1000 - is pretty astonishing.

51 allah this  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:10:55pm

Anyone doubting Darwin's theory need only look at the likes of dinnerjacket to know we came from primates. Open and shut case.

52 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:11:08pm

re: #48 BlueCanuck

It's a very sad history.

53 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:11:27pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

Coming from them- it's a compliment.

54 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:11:35pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

Do we care?

55 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:12:20pm

re: #49 Charles

Hmmm.... Must have us confused with some one else, we are Lizards!

56 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:12:58pm

re: #51 allah this

Anyone doubting Darwin's theory need only look at the likes of dinnerjacket to know we came from primates. Open and shut case.

Indeed.

57 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:13:29pm

re: #41 Charles

Are you kidding me? Now we have someone preaching "end times" in the zombie thread?

Library of Date setters for end of the world!

58 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:13:50pm

re: #54 Dianna

I wondered what happened to the Bund. There they are.

59 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:13:51pm

re: #23 A Kiwi Infidel

Um, again, sorry, but if G-d declares Himself to be the Father, and He is a female are you not adding weight to argument that man is woman and woman is man and each can marry the same or either/or?

Just askin?

What? Whose god? A hermaphrodite god? Lizards, help me out, which mythology/religion has a hermaphrodite god/goddess? I'm sure there must be one.

60 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:14:01pm

re: #49 Charles

Fuck 'em.

61 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:14:02pm

buffon = baboon = apes = apes & pigs

62 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:14:47pm
Intellectual Muslims, fed up with the pathological anti-Western hatred of the radicals who defame Islam by their violent acts, are seeking the right way to express and stand for their faith and identity in the modern world.

We muslims are not violent - we're IGNORANT!.

63 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:14:55pm

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth

Check the Hindu religion. I think they have one or two like that there.

64 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:14:56pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

I've been called worse by far better.

65 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:15:06pm

re: #58 jaunte

*Sigh*.

It does feel familiar, doesn't it?

66 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:15:12pm

re: #25 Charles

Notice that they know exactly what the Wedge Strategy is all about, and they highly approve of it.

...by the company you keep.

67 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:15:58pm

re: #38 ggt

I will take issue with that.

Yes, there are some out there who see it that way, who claim to be acting in accordance with faith.

There are just as many, if not quite a few more who follow other ideological doctrines minus the religion who do the same.

It is all about looking for the truth, and righteousness.

And without any doubt, there are too many people who forgotten their humanity in favor of materialism, or things of the sort.

It is that which leads another human being to walk right past a crime committed on a subway, and do nothing, or abuse our court system for financial gain.

68 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:16:05pm

re: #65 Dianna

It's all familiarly, conveniently disguised in the old America First robes.

69 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:17:49pm

re: #49 Charles

BTW, when I checked this morning Townhall, Conservative Voice and the White Nationalist site VDARE were the only ones distributing Buchanan's trash. Nice company.

70 Charles  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:18:10pm

Anyone who clicks the link to LGF at Buchanan's hate site will now get a surprise.

71 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:18:15pm

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth

I can think of at least one demi-god...

However, I think Wiki is our friend on this one.

This link show Hermaphroditos as a manifestation of Eros; but I think s/he is actually supposed to be a demi-god, a semi-mortal child of a god.

72 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:18:48pm

re: #70 Charles

Heh.

73 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:18:55pm

re: #70 Charles

I was just going to ask about that

74 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:19:28pm

"Intellectual Muslims, fed up with the pathological anti-Western hatred of the radicals who defame Islam by their violent acts, are seeking the right way to express and stand for their faith and identity in the modern world"
Uh, and who might those "Intellectual Muslims" be?
And how come "We" defame Islam with our violent acts, but flying jet airplanes into the WTC, The Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania doens't defame
Christianity or at least Judeo-Christian thought?

75 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:19:42pm

re: #11 Sharmuta

And this is exactly what many of us have been saying to the IDers all along- you let ID into the science classroom and islam will follow.

Deny this at your own peril!

I'm just waiting for the demands to give 'both sides' of the 'Jinn Controversy' a fair hearing in science classes...

76 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:19:44pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

Add Human Events.

Given all the crankery on the site, I think I shall have to cease going there.

77 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:19:50pm

re: #70 Charles

Anyone who clicks the link to LGF at Buchanan's hate site will now get a surprise.

Ah, the magic of redirect.

78 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:20:08pm

re: #70 Charles

Do tell?

79 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:20:12pm

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth

What? Whose god? A hermaphrodite god? Lizards, help me out, which mythology/religion has a hermaphrodite god/goddess? I'm sure there must be one.

I'm sure there must be one in Greek/Roman myths.
Let me check.

80 Render  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:20:22pm

re: #49 Charles

Google "Daniel Larison" and go five pages deep.

I see Steve Sailor, I see Taki, I see Antiwar dot com, I see the usual cast of clowns.

AFTER
GLOW,
R

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:20:45pm

re: #70 Charles

Headline: IDF Prepares for Return of Abducted Soldiers

How about Lemon Party instead?

82 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:20:53pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

"No War With Iran"... Funny how their talking points are indistinguishable from Cindy Sheehan's.

83 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:21:00pm

re: #79 reine.de.tout

I'm sure there must be one in Greek/Roman myths.
Let me check.


[Link: www.theoi.com...]

84 allah this  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:21:31pm

re: #56 MandyManners

Indeed. Word.


;)

85 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:21:58pm

I almost missed this at Buchanan's Town Hall piece, in the first line:
"Last week, the front pages of the world press blossomed with photos of four Iranian rockets, fired in salvo, heading skyward."
I don't think he got the note.

86 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:22:04pm

re: #57 HelloDare
After watching the Mayan thing on the history channel, I thought date was set. Dec. 21, 2012. That's the date the Mayan calendar ends.
Something about we'll be perfectly aligned to the center of our galaxy or some such thing.

87 nigella  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:22:07pm

Charles, I agree Buchanan is completely wacko in my opinion.It seems his hate for George W. Bush has fried his brain. Regarding Intelligent Design, I value my fellow Lizards here to much to go there.....

88 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:22:22pm

re: #75 Jimmah

I'm just waiting for the demands to give 'both sides' of the 'Jinn Controversy' a fair hearing in science classes...

I'm sure the American creationists will love having their children taught that Jesus was "just a prophet" in science class- it's exactly what they had in mind, I bet.

89 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:22:43pm

re: #85 jaunte No, he got it, he just doesn't believe it.

90 mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:16pm

re: #49 Charles

Whats funny about that to me is that waaaay back I used to read his stuff all the time and then Rathergate happened and I found LGF and a few years later I haven't been back at all.

91 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:34pm

re: #89 realwest

Maybe he could be invited to vacation in Sderot, and see how harmless those little rockets can be.

92 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:34pm

Pat has gone totally around the bend and is in need of some serious meds.

93 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:35pm
This “wedge” is the code name for the Intelligent Design Movement, formed in the early 1990s by Christian scientists and intellectuals.

Muslims have indeed slid back into the dark ages.

94 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:41pm

re: #67 formercorpsman

hmmm, I think I'm missing your point.

95 profitsbeard  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:23:53pm

If they'll swallow a pedophile warlord as a "prophet", why not this?

Islam declared itself to be following an Utterly Irrational deity about 400 years into its "faith", so this is just the logical outcome.

96 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:24:02pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

Good. I wouldn't be here if they had cause to say something favorable about LGF.

F*ck 'em!

97 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:24:47pm

re: #94 ggt

If that is the case, I am open to discussion.

98 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:24:54pm

re: #91 jaunte Nah, even Buchanan isn't that stupi.......hmmm couldn't hurt to invite him!

99 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:25:10pm

re: #50 Dianna

It's fear-mongering. Nothing more.

100 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:25:21pm

re: #98 realwest

Fact-finding!

101 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:25:36pm

This is rich

[Link: blog.aclu.org...]

102 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:43pm

re: #67 formercorpsman

It is that which leads another human being to walk right past a crime committed on a subway, and do nothing

like the AP stringers in the Middle East

or abuse our court system for financial gain

like the Flying Imams and the al-Haramain case.

103 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:44pm

re: #101 formercorpsman
What a bunch of maroons.

104 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:45pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

Repent now, while you still have time!

105 gman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:47pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

That's a very important point. Al-Ghazali is credited with the destruction of the Islamic world in the 11th century through his work The Incoherence of the Philosophers in which he rejected the Greek philosophers with their "reason", "logic" and "imperical evidence" as heretical because they didn't account for the wisdom of Allah as revealed in the Quran. There is a very strong parallel between the Disco Institute and Al- Ghazali and it could result in a similar collapse in our civilization as well.

That wikipedia entry for Ghazali reads like a PR glossy

106 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:48pm

re: #70 Charles

Anyone who clicks the link to LGF at Buchanan's hate site will now get a surprise.

I love it!

107 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:26:51pm

re: #49 Charles

Pat Buchanan's hate rag calls us "buffoons:"

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

Ohhh...... that ought to fry their little brains.

108 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:27:36pm

re: #107 Wendya

Ohhh...... that ought to fry their little brains.

Clicking back to your LGF link, that is.

109 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:28:01pm

re: #100 jaunte Wait, I thought it was gonna be a vacation! We gotta get our stories invitations straight or we're never gonna sucker get him there!

110 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:28:37pm

re: #63 BlueCanuck

Check the Hindu religion. I think they have one or two like that there.

Turns out, it's Greek.

111 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:29:01pm

re: #97 formercorpsman

Seriously, I don't understand what you said. How does walking past a crime scene equal charlatans and false prophets urging me to give-up my stuff?

Perhaps we are using two different meanings for materialism. I mean "private property". Something of which the socialists and whacko's seem to disapprove.

112 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:29:16pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, can't be right all the time. :)

113 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:30:03pm

re: #71 Dianna

I can think of at least one demi-god...

However, I think Wiki is our friend on this one.

This link show Hermaphroditos as a manifestation of Eros; but I think s/he is actually supposed to be a demi-god, a semi-mortal child of a god.

Hermophroditos, child of Aphrodite, the goddess of beauty and love, and Hermes

114 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:30:04pm

Charles, he seems to be a man after your own heart.

Read his first couple of sentences in

[Link: larison.org...]

He needs to be in the running.

115 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:30:29pm

re: #107 Wendya
Mwahahahahaha! OMG! That is great!

116 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:30:48pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

in egypt cats were demi-gods

117 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:31:12pm

re: #109 realwest

Coughlinite reunion and golf outing?

118 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:32:05pm

Sometimes a higher power leaves messages on my windshield: Wash me!

119 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:32:30pm

re: #117 jaunte
Yeah, that's the ticket! With free brandy and Cuban Cigars!
Perfect for such a small intellect as his.

120 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:32:42pm

The All Stat Game drags on. Top of the 12th, 2 Out NL

121 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:06pm

re: #116 yochanan

in egypt cats were demi-gods

In my house, the cats

think

they're demi-gods

122 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:09pm

That's Buffoonette to you sir,

123 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:12pm

re: #19 BlueCanuck

I am sure there are enough female scientists to do any decoding.

/any more room in your shelter?

we still wouldn't underswtand the papers describing their discoveries.....

/ya gotta bring your own booze. %-)

124 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:17pm

Time for a nap, be back in a couple. Try not to beat each other up now.

125 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:19pm

re: #120 mattm

The All Stat Game drags on. Top of the 12th, 2 Out NL

2 blown calls in the 11th

126 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:33:32pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Headline: IDF Prepares for Return of Abducted Soldiers

How about Lemon Party instead?

Lemon Party? I'm afraid to ask.

The IDF link was super-clever, I thought.

127 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:14pm

re: #126 Slumbering Behemoth

Lemon Party? I'm afraid to ask.

The IDF link was super-clever, I thought.

Nuts party

128 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:18pm

re: #123 redc1c4

Understood. For some reason you don't strike me as a Guiness drinker. :)

/my booze is mostly safe then.

129 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:35pm

Buffon's Needle:
[Link: www.mste.uiuc.edu...]

130 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:35pm

re: #125 Abu Al-Poopypants What's the score?

131 cicero05  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:40pm

Muslims + ID. All I can say is, eponymous!

132 Charles  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:42pm

I think Lemon Party shows Pat Buchanan, Justin Raimondo, and Sean Hannity sharing a special moment.

what? it doesn't?

133 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:34:57pm

re: #128 BlueCanuck
Guiness and Bass Ale!

134 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:35:03pm

re: #111 ggt

Perhaps we are using two different meanings for materialism. I mean "private property". Something of which the socialists and whacko's seem to disapprove.

In your #38, the last thing I was thinking you meant was socialists. They generally aren't concerned with the state of anyone's soul.

135 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:35:31pm

re: #23 A Kiwi Infidel

Um, again, sorry, but if G-d declares Himself to be the Father, and He is a female are you not adding weight to argument that man is woman and woman is man and each can marry the same or either/or?

Just askin?

that was a typical male mistake in transcription. just ask any wife/girlfriend/so.....

what G*d said and what we heard were two different things.

/and, being the male in the equation, we were wrong. %-)

136 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:35:34pm

re: #121 reine.de.tout
Ditto for my house.

137 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:36:37pm

are those Abyssinians?

138 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:36:40pm

re: #130 realwest

What's the score?

3-3 in the 12th. Hopefully the commish won't call a tie again.

139 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:36:59pm

re: #137 DistantThunder

are those Abyssinians?

Cornish Rex.

140 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:37:08pm

re: #86 pingjockey

After watching the Mayan thing on the history channel, I thought date was set. Dec. 21, 2012. That's the date the Mayan calendar ends.
Something about we'll be perfectly aligned to the center of our galaxy or some such thing.

From my limited understanding, that is supposed to be an epochal mark, not an apocryphal one.

141 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:37:27pm

re: #137 DistantThunder
Yes, and in all the old familiar places!

142 Neo Con since 9-11[deleted]  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:37:32pm
143 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:37:56pm

re: #32 BlueCanuck

Only if red approves, and you come with supplies.

/the stronger the better.

for some reason, most of the storage resembles a wine cellar.... %-)

/lots of room

144 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:38:02pm

re: #136 Abu Al-Poopypants

Ditto for my house.

those 2 look like they are preparing for a REVOLUTION
You get to claw out his eyes this time.

145 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:38:17pm

re: #141 realwest
Ah rats, h/t Hawkeye Pierce.

146 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:38:33pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Is there any point in me posting links?

147 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:38:45pm

re: #136 Abu Al-Poopypants

Ditto for my house.

What kind of cats are those?

I can't get all 4 of mine together at one time. They will each pose with the dog just fine; but not with each other.

148 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:38:52pm

re: #139 Abu Al-Poopypants

Cornish Rex.

We had noisy Siamese, now we have skittish half-feral.

149 MandyManners[deleted]  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:39:02pm
150 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:39:19pm

re: #140 Slumbering Behemoth

From my limited understanding, that is supposed to be an epochal mark, not an apocryphal one.

And it'll probably be the day the last state electors cast their votes for President.

(Did you mean "apocalyptic"?)

151 DistantThunder  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:39:42pm

re: #149 MandyManners

DON'T CLICK ON THAT.

Thanks for the warning.

152 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:40:26pm

re: #146 Dianna

Is there any point in me posting links?

I don't understand what you are saying?

153 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:40:35pm

re: #71 Dianna

I can think of at least one demi-god...

However, I think Wiki is our friend on this one.

This link show Hermaphroditos as a manifestation of Eros; but I think s/he is actually supposed to be a demi-god, a semi-mortal child of a god.

While I was reaching for my book . . . you found it right quick! (Note to self: remember wiki).

154 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:40:39pm

re: #134 victor_yugo

Bingo, but they'll use religion or whatever is necessary to convince you of their "rightness"

I really don't see much difference between socialist, fascist or communist --to me they are all totalitarian. I think the current crop of religiouswhacko's are the same. There are useful idiots in their camp that are truly concerned with the souls of others, but their leaders are only concerned with power over others. IMHO.

"denouncing materialism" is just another gimmick they use.

155 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:41:12pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Repent now, while you still have time!

What, and miss all the action?

/this is the longest "end time" I have ever known..

156 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:41:26pm

re: #149 MandyManners

DON'T CLICK ON THAT.

I did say not safe for work. although probably not safe for home, internet cafes, or Taiwanese brothel either.

157 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:41:27pm

re: #152 Walter L. Newton

I don't understand what you are saying?

dianna had already posted that link, before you did, and before I could find the answer in my book.

158 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:10pm

re: #157 reine.de.tout

dianna had already posted that link, before you did, and before I could find the answer in my book.

Excuuuuuussseeee me. Sorry. Geeesssh.

159 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:11pm

Sorry, I assumed that it was common knowledge to not google Lemon Party or Goatse, etc.
/My bad

160 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:14pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Yes. I know. I posted the link.

But Eros and Hermaphrodites are not precisely the same persona.

161 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:20pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Repent now, while you still have time!

I live in a state of repentance and guilt.

162 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:28pm

re: #71 Dianna

I can think of at least one demi-god...

However, I think Wiki is our friend on this one.

This link show Hermaphroditos as a manifestation of Eros; but I think s/he is actually supposed to be a demi-god, a semi-mortal child of a god.

That looks like the rabbit that had the hots for Jimmy Carter.

163 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:42:53pm

re: #132 Charles

Ha!

164 wolfie  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:05pm

re: #16 redc1c4

(I just thought that was pretty funny.)

165 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:08pm

re: #111 ggt

I know at times I post stuff that appears a far stretch, guilty.

The point I was aiming for in the larger sense, is that society has become very materialistic.

It has placed things above what used to be a moral code, and in turn leads to the erosion of life day after day.

I guess my correlation with the crime, is people at large had a direction for right and wrong. They got involved. Anymore, people shy away from this, they fear not only for their own safety, but for their own material loss in the process.

Take breast implants. Hey I'm a fan in certain situations, but truly, I think what the world has started to tell people, is that in order to be successful, relevant, etc, you need this for material gain. Someone who has the funds to go through 4 or 5 different surgeries only because they are tired of the size needs a lesson in reality.

Try working in children's hospital at some point. See what true need really is. Take that money, and send a care package to the 20 year old kid in Anbar who would think a real luxury at this time would be a box of baby wipes, and perhaps an Ipod.

Trust me, I am not about the Robin hood complex, nor the Oral Roberts snake oil sales man approach to salvation.

But there is a prevalence of materialism that has slowly eaten away some our humanity as a society over time.

166 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:10pm

re: #147 reine.de.tout

What kind of cats are those?

I can't get all 4 of mine together at one time. They will each pose with the dog just fine; but not with each other.

These are from 2 different litters of Cornish Rex born 11 days apart in the same house, and they're inseparable since we got 'em. Right now they're washing each other on the couch.

167 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:25pm
Intellectual Christians have already found that way. They encountered materialism before we did, because it grew right in the heart of Christendom. They have been standing against it for several decades. And recently they have initiated a bold movement—a “wedge” as they call it—to split the foundations of materialism.

The IDers and the muslim creationists are after the same thing- to replace the material, observable world of reason with a theistic one. Those of us opposed to ID have been mocked for calling this agenda theocratic, but that is exactly what it is. If you replace reason based on the observable with the IDers "theistic realism" then everything becomes spiritual, and theocracy can only be a step behind.

168 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:28pm

re: #116 yochanan

in egypt cats were demi-gods

And they've never forgotten it!

169 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:43:33pm

re: #156 Neo Con since 9-11

If you get banned for that, I'll do a happy dance.

Seriously.

170 Racer X  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:44:48pm

re: #169 victor_yugo

If you get banned for that, I'll do a happy dance.

Seriously.

pr0n?

171 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:44:50pm

Bottom of the 12th, tied 3/3 2 out....

172 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:45:47pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

Sorry, I assumed that it was common knowledge to not google Lemon Party or Goatse, etc.
/My bad

I knew about Goatse but I'd never heard of the other. At least I'm not so overly curious that I feel the need to see it for myself after having read the description.

173 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:45:55pm

re: #160 Dianna

Yes. I know. I posted the link.

But Eros and Hermaphrodites are not precisely the same persona.

No, they're not. Eros was directly produced "chaos" I think, which also produced Ge (Earth), Tartarus (a dim place in the ground), erebus (the gloom of tatarus) and dark night. Plus eros (love)

174 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:46:05pm

Ant now we go to the 13th Inning.....

175 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:46:46pm

I'm sorry I quoted that post, Charles.

176 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:47:03pm

when will the comish call a tie?

177 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:47:03pm

I notice that the Disco Dancin' ID Trolls do not seem overly eager to engage concerning this particular article...;~)

178 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:47:50pm

re: #177 Salamantis

I notice that the Disco Dancin' ID Trolls do not seem overly eager to engage concerning this particular article...;~)

9 years ago, they would have been all over it.

179 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:47:58pm

re: #177 Salamantis

I notice that the Disco Dancin' ID Trolls do not seem overly eager to engage concerning this particular article...;~)

I hope they read it, though.

180 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:48:02pm

re: #177 Salamantis

Seems awfully quiet...

181 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:48:05pm

re: #158 Walter L. Newton

Well, it would be nice if someone noticed, every now and then, that I actually do know a teeny-tiny bit about Greco-Roman mythology. It's not my fault; my mom loved the stuff, and I sort of picked it up as I went along.

182 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:48:29pm

re: #154 ggt

"denouncing materialism" is just another gimmick they use.

If you have already concluded thus, without observing the benefit of renouncing materialism (independent of the messenger)...

and I'm not talking about being forced into it, I'm talking about making that choice freely...

then why should I take you any more seriously than the very people Charles rails against on here?

183 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:48:43pm

re: #176 yochanan

when will the comish call a tie?

His worst nightmare.

184 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:49:40pm

I would have tried a suicide squeeze when there was 1 out and a man on 3rd. That would show my influence from playing high school Catholic League baseball. We used the squeeze play all the time. Its a league where 3 balls is a walk and 2 strikes is a strikeout. Small ball rules.

185 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:50:02pm

re: #172 Wendya

I knew about Goatse but I'd never heard of the other. At least I'm not so overly curious that I feel the need to see it for myself after having read the description.

Don't google tubgirl, then...

186 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:50:13pm

re: #181 Dianna

Well, it would be nice if someone noticed, every now and then, that I actually do know a teeny-tiny bit about Greco-Roman mythology. It's not my fault; my mom loved the stuff, and I sort of picked it up as I went along.

I noticed.

187 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:50:16pm

re: #150 victor_yugo

And it'll probably be the day the last state electors cast their votes for President.

(Did you mean "apocalyptic"?)

Yes, I did. My bad.

188 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:50:21pm

re: #173 reine.de.tout

Many of the Greek gods had highly fractured personae.

189 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:50:23pm

My apologies, Charles. Poor judgment on my part. I didn't even know what that site was till someone else brought it up.

190 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:51:09pm

re: #181 Dianna

Well, it would be nice if someone noticed, every now and then, that I actually do know a teeny-tiny bit about Greco-Roman mythology. It's not my fault; my mom loved the stuff, and I sort of picked it up as I went along.

Then maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong:

Isn't "demi-god" actually "god of the people" (as opposed to "god of the cosmos"), and not "half-god"?

Like "democracy" is "strength of the people".

191 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:51:39pm

re: #177 Salamantis

Give 'em time. It's not midnight on the west coast yet, so they haven't finished eating after rising at sunset.

Do any of you sleep?

192 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:51:45pm

re: #180 jaunte

All these martyr points waiting to be claimed just going to waste. Pity.

193 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:52:01pm

re: #183 freedombilly

worst nightmare would be an injured player

194 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:52:03pm

re: #146 Dianna

Is there any point in me posting links?

Yes, there is. I just posted mine before I saw yours. Thanks BTW, I gave you an up-ding.

195 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:52:29pm

re: #192 Sharmuta

5

________________

196 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:52:44pm

re: #181 Dianna

Well, it would be nice if someone noticed, every now and then, that I actually do know a teeny-tiny bit about Greco-Roman mythology. It's not my fault; my mom loved the stuff, and I sort of picked it up as I went along.

Dianna - It wasn't a matter of not "noticing," it was a simple matter of how fast these threads can move, combined with the many talented and educated people here.

While you were entering your post, I was looking up a reference and then you post and I post and, magic, we both have a post, your first, mine next.

You comment to me was sort of a "dig" on me, and I don't see why it was necessary. I wasn't trying to "one up" you or anything like that.

Walter in Golden, Co. (scratching my head)

197 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:52:45pm

re: #193 yochanan

worst nightmare would be an injured player

Yep.

198 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:53:06pm

re: #186 reine.de.tout

Thanks!

199 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:53:18pm

re: #121 reine.de.tout

they're demi-gods

my house is *run* for the convenience of the cats: they are gods.

/just ask them %-)

200 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:53:41pm

re: #192 Sharmuta

That was a high five, but it wound up off-center.

201 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:53:46pm

re: #197 mattm

interesting game so far

202 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:54:25pm

re: #188 Dianna

Many of the Greek gods had highly fractured personae.

yes. And intermingled and interbred something fierce.

Eros shows up in the creation myths - in other cultures was known as "cupid".

Aphrodite was a daughter of Zeus and Hera, and Hermaphroditus was a child of Aphrodite.

203 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:54:25pm

re: #200 jaunte

That was a high five, but it wound up off-center.

LOL! Okay- I thought maybe it was a [your name here] for 5 martyr points.

204 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:54:36pm

re: #193 yochanan

You're right. But oh the PR if he has to call a tie. Kazmir will be on a strict pitch count since he threw over 100 pitches on Sunday. And he is the only AL pitcher who hasn't pitched yet.

205 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:54:42pm

re: #128 BlueCanuck

Understood. For some reason you don't strike me as a Guiness drinker. :)

/my booze is mostly safe then.

does it have ETOH?

/not safe. %-)

206 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:54:49pm

re: #190 victor_yugo

Two different words, in different declensions. My Greek's really non-existent, but demo- demos is very much a noun, and demi is an adjective.

207 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:55:06pm

the greek gods were lively to say the least

208 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:55:53pm

re: #188 Dianna

Many of the Greek gods had highly fractured personae.

"per/sona" = "through/sound"

a theatrical mask with a bullhorn in the mouth, to project the actor's voice

which gave rise to the Modalist heresy

209 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:56:00pm

re: #193 yochanan

Or another tie game.

I say they should allow free substitution in the All Star Game now that the stakes are home field advantage for the World Series. In extra innings, let the starters back in.

210 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:56:20pm

re: #165 formercorpsman

I agree, I just think that the pundits that propose we denouce materialism really just want our stuff.

I guess, I am knee-jerk suspicious of anyone who has a mercedes (meaning the Osama, algore, flying imans etc) tell me what I can and cannot purchase with money I've earned. They all seem to have a not-for-profit organization that can really use my money.

I'd rather give a grocery bag of food to the local food pantry or drive a carless co-worker home after work and know that my money and efforts had a positive result.

211 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:56:27pm

re: #190 victor_yugo

Erp! my apologies, I hit post before I should have!

"cracy" is not 'strength', exactly. Like a lot of words in classical Greek, it translates as a number of different words.

212 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:57:06pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

No, it wasn't a dig at you - it was a joke.

213 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:57:28pm

re: #207 yochanan

the greek gods were lively to say the least

And the curses they came up with really kick Hellenic ass.

Cassandra
Prometheus
Sisyphus

214 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:58:04pm

re: #156 Neo Con since 9-11

I did say not safe for work. although probably not safe for home, internet cafes, or Taiwanese brothel either.

"The following video is not work, school, home, or penitentiary safe. In fact, if you were to be in the middle of a gay S&M rave/orgy in the discarded organs bin at your local slaughterhouse and this came on the screens, you'd probably think it was a bit over the top."

Gridlore, on his LiveJournal

215 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:58:32pm

Not a single downward ding on Charles' initial post.

216 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:58:48pm

re: #192 Sharmuta

All these martyr points waiting to be claimed just going to waste. Pity.

If no one claims them, I say we take 'em back to the corner store and trade them in for some of that primordial booze.

217 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:58:52pm

re: #167 Sharmuta

"The IDers and the muslim creationists are after the same thing- to replace the material, observable world of reason with a theistic one"

THis is exactly what I'm not buying or swallowing. I don't believe they give one iota about faith or souls. They want the world in their power, not G-ds.

Yes, there are individuals who are true believers. I don't believe the leaders are.

218 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:59:03pm

re: #210 ggt Hey ggt!
Was that Osama a slip of the keyboard and did you mean Obama?
Cause, ya know, I ain't giving to any Osama linked charities!

219 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:59:25pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Aphrodite arose from the blood of the father of the gods, who becomes Chronos after his murder by his children, doesn't he?

220 FamHistoryGuy  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 9:59:43pm

re: #27 Salamantis

So, the pillars of islam:loot, pillage, plunder and rape are not materialism?

221 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:00:33pm

re: #208 victor_yugo

Well, not precisely? I'd always felt that the Modalist heresy used that as an example?

222 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:01:04pm

re: #206 Dianna

Two different words, in different declensions. My Greek's really non-existent, but demo- demos is very much a noun, and demi is an adjective.

My book says the demi-gods were "race" created by Zeus, "a godlike race of heroic men who preceded our own race" (meaning humans). That's from Ovid's accounts.

223 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:01:10pm

re: #217 ggt

I don't believe they give one iota about faith or souls. They want the world in their power, not G-ds.

And I agree with you here. It's that their means of acquiring power are to abuse their positions as so-called holy men.

224 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:01:33pm

re: #209 Mich-again

Watching the game in a hotel by DTW, not far from your "embedded" position after conducting some business in lovely Bay View today.

Someone needs to end this. I've got a flight in the morning.

225 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:01:54pm

re: #215 MandyManners
Yes, but didja notice Charles gave himself a "+"!
We aren't allowed to do that.
Must be a perk of owning your own blog!

226 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:02:02pm

re: #213 victor_yugo

Tauntalus!

227 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:02:05pm

re: #182 victor_yugo

I don't want your stuff. You can keep it, you earned it. Or give it away --your choice, not mine.

228 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:02:28pm

re: #215 MandyManners

Not a single downward ding on Charles' initial post.

I noticed that Charles has a special power denied the rest of us. The power to ding up his own post. :-)

229 wolfie  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:02:53pm

re: #190 victor_yugo

Then maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong:

Isn't "demi-god" actually "god of the people" (as opposed to "god of the cosmos"), and not "half-god"?

Like "democracy" is "strength of the people".


Demi- is the Greek prefix meaning PARTIAL, LESSER,HALF

230 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:03:17pm

a lively greek god
Priapus

231 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:03:18pm

re: #225 realwest

Heh. 32 seconds before my post. GMTA.

232 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:03:25pm

re: #221 Dianna

Well, not precisely? I'd always felt that the Modalist heresy used that as an example?

Speculation: without the use of that image (one actor, many masks), I doubt Modalism could have gotten the societal hold that it did.

233 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:03:35pm

re: #222 reine.de.tout

Oh, Ovid - he's really marvellous, but he's a little too busy with the poetry.

I love Ovid - my Latin improved sharply when I had to translate him.

234 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:03:50pm

re: #228 Lizard by the Bay Hey there - please see my #225!
GMTA!

235 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:04:12pm

re: #219 Dianna

Aphrodite arose from the blood of the father of the gods, who becomes Chronos after his murder by his children, doesn't he?

I show lineage:
Cronus & Rhea - produced 6, Hestia, Hades, Poseidon, Demeter, Hera & Zeus.

Zeus had several mates; Aphrodite was born of Zeus and Dione (who I know nothing about).

Hermes was Zeus' son by Maia.

Zeus and Hera had 3 children; Hebe, Hephaestus and Ares (Mars)

236 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:04:14pm

re: #234 realwest

And we did it again...

237 ggt  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:04:59pm

re: #218 realwest

Freudian keyboard slip? I don't know --anymore I wonder that they are not interchangeable.

How you doin'?

I'm nursing a 2 day migraine and getting ready to log-off.

Weet dreams if I don't see you again.

238 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:05:20pm

re: #224 freedombilly

You must be just a few miles from here. Ha.

239 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:05:21pm

re: #191 Dianna

Give 'em time. It's not midnight on the west coast yet, so they haven't finished eating after rising at sunset.

Do any of you sleep?

is that what happens when you've had enough to drink?

240 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:05:27pm

re: #231 Lizard by the Bay ROTFLMAO! Ouch! This damned toothache is just killing me - I've taken enough meds to sink a good sized boat and still hurt to much to get to sleep.
Mayber the Commish will allow ME to pitch!

241 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:05:27pm

@Dianna:
@Wolfie:

I'm thinking of the really, really old daimonios which waits for someone to pray, and then carries the prayer up to heaven.

Sorry for the confusion. The fault was mine.

242 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:05:45pm

To the 14th inning.....

243 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:06:11pm

re: #230 yochanan

Something of a roadside favorite, he.

244 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:06:12pm

re: #239 redc1c4

is that what happens when you've had enough to drink?

Silly lizard. Like there's any such thing as "enough to drink".

245 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:06:14pm

re: #237 ggt Sorry to hear about your migraine - hope you feel better when you wake up in the morning!

246 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:07:55pm

Hmm... I guess the Discovery Institute's Martyr Brigade is comparing notes and formulating a new play book for this one. It's oddly quiet.

247 FamHistoryGuy  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:08:06pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

rif tags?

248 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:08:11pm

re: #240 realwest

Bummer about the toothache. I find that vicodin mixed with just the right amount of vodka is a guaranteed good night's sleep.

249 Canadastani  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:08:52pm

OT: Archbishop of Canterbury steps in it again

They successfully lost me - a lifelong Episcopalian - with their blend of pop culture and dhimmitude.
The Archbishop thinks we should follow his lead and humble ourselves before our Muslim superiors and thinks Muslim women in the UK should be subject to the "choice" of Shariah law. Trying to picture the women who say "no thanks, I'd rather litigate this in the infidel courts". I just see bruises.
The head of the Episcopal Church USA thinks the primary mission of the church is to act on Global Warming.
It's a mess, not a church.

250 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:05pm

re: #235 reine.de.tout

Oh, boy. I need to look it up, but I'm pretty sure Aphrodite arose from Cronos' blood.

Pretty sure does not mean absolutely certain.

I have here this quote:

According to Hesiod, she was born when Uranus (the father of the gods) was castrated by his son Cronus. Cronus threw the severed genitals into the ocean which began to churn and foam about them. From the aphros ("sea foam") arose Aphrodite, and the sea carried her to either Cyprus or Cythera. Hence she is often referred to as Kypris and Cytherea. Homer calls her a daughter of Zeus and Dione.

From this site.

251 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:25pm

re: #243 Dianna

Something of a roadside favorite, he.

and named after the condition some get when they have taken vitimin 'V'

after 4 hours call your doc

252 Clemente  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:37pm

re: #129 jaunte

Buffon's Needle:
[Link: www.mste.uiuc.edu...]

That probability curve looks a lot like a cycloid, juante, but my math skills fall a bit country mile short of solving the equation. Could you (or maybe another lizard) tell me if they're different forms of the same expression?

253 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:39pm

re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth

Indeed. How to combat the ummah ♥s the wedge?

254 jaunte  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:42pm

re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth

"This is not the Discovery Institute we knew."

255 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:09:48pm

re: #248 Lizard by the Bay

You don't mess around!

256 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:10:01pm

re: #219 Dianna

re: #235 reine.de.tout

I show lineage:
Cronus & Rhea - produced 6, Hestia, Hades, Poseidon, Demeter, Hera & Zeus.

Zeus had several mates; Aphrodite was born of Zeus and Dione (who I know nothing about).

Hermes was Zeus' son by Maia.

Zeus and Hera had 3 children; Hebe, Hephaestus and Ares (Mars)

And before that: Cronus was a Titan (the offspring of Uranus and Ge) - there were 12. Rhea was also one. Zeus was son of Cronus & Rhea.

Cronus swallowed his children because he was destined to be overcome by one of them. Rhea had Zeus in secret so he wouldn't be swallowed. Zeus grew up; Cronus brought forth all his swallowed children, and together with brother Zeus, they fought Cronus.

257 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:10:14pm

re: #232 victor_yugo

I can't speak to that - I don't know enough about that heresy.

258 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:10:30pm

re: #244 Lizard by the Bay

Silly lizard. Like there's any such thing as "enough to drink".

i musta left out the "/"..... %-)

"CHANGE!"

/off to the fridge

259 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:11:00pm

re: #248 Lizard by the Bay Well I'm a non-drinking alcoholic, so the Vodka's out and I'm already on Morphine to counter my cancer meds - somehow I don't think that vicodan is gonna cut it!
But thanks for the idea!

260 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:11:26pm

re: #127 DistantThunder

Nuts party

I think I get your meaning. I shall remain blissfully ignorant on this one.

/Getting "Rick Rolled" with a goatse link taught me a valuable lesson

261 eclectic infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:11:42pm

re: #25 Charles

Notice that they know exactly what the Wedge Strategy is all about, and they highly approve of it.

Yes. Common ground for both Jihadist and Christian Creationist.

262 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:11:43pm

at this point i just wish the game would end

263 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:11:48pm

re: #239 redc1c4

I wouldn't know.

Sleep is elusive for me, but drinking doesn't help.

264 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:12:15pm

if the game lasts longer than 4 hours call your doc

265 FamHistoryGuy  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:12:15pm

re: #95 profitsbeard

muslims are self professed slaves of allah, the immans are the overseers and allah is the slave owner.

266 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:12:26pm

re: #250 Dianna

This is probably correct. I didn't see what you posted in this link.

The problem I always had with understanding these gods and getting them straight is the timeline, and the fact they intermingled and interbred so dadgum much.

267 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:12:27pm

re: #248 Lizard by the Bay

Bummer about the toothache. I find that vicodin mixed with just the right amount of vodka is a guaranteed good night's sleep.

get it wrong and you'll *sleep* a whole lot longer than you'd planned on.

still hard as hell on your liver even if you don't screw up: acetaminophen & ETOH are *really* hard on the old organ.

268 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:12:35pm

re: #248 Lizard by the Bay

Bummer about the toothache. I find that vicodin mixed with just the right amount of vodka is a guaranteed good night's sleep.

Atarax is also a booster. (besides also being an anti-anxiety drug)

269 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:13:08pm

re: #264 yochanan

Laughing really hard considering all of the Viagra commercials during this broadcast!

270 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:13:51pm

re: #233 Dianna

Oh, Ovid - he's really marvellous, but he's a little too busy with the poetry.

I love Ovid - my Latin improved sharply when I had to translate him.

Well - I read a translation, no Latin for me.

271 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:14:10pm

We buried my Father in Law this morning. He lost a long bout with cancer. We were there with him in the hospital room when he finally gave up fighting and asked for the morphine drip to just end it all. The guy never had much use for any organized religion, but he lived a good life and was always a lot of fun to hang out with.

272 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:14:34pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

That, I know.

I would love to continue this, but it's after 10 my time, and I have to be up at 5. I'm going to catch up to this post, and then head for bed.

273 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:15:28pm

re: #263 Dianna

I wouldn't know.

Sleep is elusive for me, but drinking doesn't help.

then you're doing it wrong..... %-)

/have you checked with an expert in the field?
(insomnia, not drinking. )

274 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:15:41pm

re: #271 Mich-again

I am sorry for your loss. No matter how old he was cancer took him too soon.

275 realwest  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:15:46pm

Well all y'all I'm going to try to get some sleep - VERY early morning appointment with the dentist, all just so he can send me to an endodontist who won't be able to see me for a few days.
May just get the damn tooth pulled out.
Anyway, hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

Goodnight, all.

276 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:15:53pm

re: #272 Dianna

good night, I'm doing the same.

277 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:15:53pm

re: #271 Mich-again

My condolences.

278 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:16:08pm

re: #271 Mich-again

{Mich-again}

279 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:16:43pm

re: #271 Mich-again

How ya holding up, Mich?

280 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:16:48pm

re: #271 Mich-again

We buried my Father in Law this morning. He lost a long bout with cancer. We were there with him in the hospital room when he finally gave up fighting and asked for the morphine drip to just end it all. The guy never had much use for any organized religion, but he lived a good life and was always a lot of fun to hang out with.

that blows..... my condolences to you & your family.

281 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:16:49pm

OT:

On the evening of June 30th, I began to suffer pains in my lower right abdomen. They increased in severity, but I decided to tough them out. Then they got so bad that toughing them out was completely out of the question. They felt like a white-hot python was having grand mal seizures in my gut.

I called a cab (no WAY I could drive), and stumbled screaming into the ER. (What's the pain like on a scale of 1 to 10? AAAAAHHHH! Gotcha. Ten.) They triaged me right on back, and told me that my appendix had ruptured, and that I needed immediate surgery. I swung my trembling, pen-clenching hand at the release forms, and they put me under.

The doc had to redirect his surgery mid-stride. What had happened was much, MUCH worse than an appendix rupture. I was suffering from extreme diverticulitis. A pocket had developed in my lower colon that had filled with colonic material. My colon had become inflamed and swollen, sealing off the pocket from the rest of the tube. The pocket had gotten infected, festered, and the pressure had blown a hole in my outer colonic wall and soaked my lower GI tract with septic pus. And it had multiplied there.

The surgeon drew three cups of sepsis out of my lower GI tract, and installed a suction drain, that pulled out more for days. And they placed me on a rotating IV regimen of three of the most heavy-duty antibiotics they had.

When I woke up after the surgery, I was on a morphine drip; I stayed on it for 4 days, and in the hospital for 12. As soon as I awakened, they had me fill out a living will, because they were uncertain whether I was gonna make it. After I did, the doc told me that I had dodged a major bullet.

One that slammed into me all of a sudden, from nowhere.

Why am I telling all of y'all this disgusting story? Because, when I first got home, I was as weak as a cat, and still having to take 2/5 of a gram of demerol a day. My lifeline was being able to converse in the Lizard Lounge with the many good friends that I have made over the last several months. Their encouragement, care and concern kept me going through a slow, painful, and most difficult convalescence, which, to tell the truth, is not entirely over yet. Others have had similar experiences; SigDawg, for one, who remained in touch with us from the time she was shipped back from Iraq to Walter Reed, through her surgery for pancreatic cancer, till now. I will understand if Charles feels compelled to take down the Lounge, but I will deeply mourn its loss, and the loss of the chance to get together with my good friends there and chat.

282 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:17:17pm

re: #219 Dianna

Aphrodite arose from the blood of the father of the gods, who becomes Chronos after his murder by his children, doesn't he?

If I'm not mistaken, the Egyptians had some myths that were just about as convoluted as this, and in the same sorts of ways. Study the stories of Osirus and and his enemies, f'rex.

283 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:18:08pm

PIMF!

Dang, where did that extra "and" come from?!?!?

284 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:18:37pm

re: #249 Canadastani

OT: Archbishop of Canterbury steps in it again

They successfully lost me - a lifelong Episcopalian - with their blend of pop culture and dhimmitude.
The Archbishop thinks we should follow his lead and humble ourselves before our Muslim superiors and thinks Muslim women in the UK should be subject to the "choice" of Shariah law. Trying to picture the women who say "no thanks, I'd rather litigate this in the infidel courts". I just see bruises.
The head of the Episcopal Church USA thinks the primary mission of the church is to act on Global Warming.
It's a mess, not a church.

Have you sent that to Charles?

285 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:19:17pm

re: #279 Slumbering Behemoth

How ya holding up, Mich?

Crap! And my condolences as well.

/sometimes I am unintentionally insensitive.

286 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:19:36pm

To the 15th Inning..... This is the game that doesn't end, it just goes on and on my friends.....

287 yochanan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:19:53pm

sal i like the lounge too some times it is needed esp when i am a shut in.

288 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:20:20pm

re: #271 Mich-again

My condolences.

289 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:20:26pm

re: #220 FamHistoryGuy

So, the pillars of islam:loot, pillage, plunder and rape are not materialism?

They're all for Allah's purpose; to coerce infidel souls into his fold...by making them scared shitless to stay outside it. Dar el Islam, Dar el Harb (War).

290 eclectic infidel  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:20:27pm

re: #116 yochanan

in egypt cats were demi-gods

Felines are at least that.

291 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:20:40pm

re: #274 freedombilly

Thanks. 64 is too young these days it seems. The weirdest part was seeing him wake up and figuring out he was still alive a few times. Anyone who has been there might know that look.

292 phoenixgirl  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:20:54pm

re: #281 Salamantis

{sala}

293 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:21:07pm

re: #281 Salamantis

Been there, done that.

Sorry you had to experience it. Just be glad it likely won't come back.

294 phoenixgirl  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:21:10pm

re: #287 yochanan

{yoch}

295 Dianna  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:21:26pm

re: #273 redc1c4

A couple; some things help. I don't like medication, so I do a lot of meditation instead.

It still means that I have to get to bed very soon, or it will be well after midnight when I finally go to sleep.

296 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:21:58pm

Each league has 1 pitcher left, so this might be the last inning no matter the score.

297 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:22:38pm

re: #249 Canadastani

ECUSA lost me in the late 80's.

298 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:22:42pm

re: #255 freedombilly

You don't mess around!

I'm a fan of what works.

re: #267 redc1c4

get it wrong and you'll *sleep* a whole lot longer than you'd planned on.

I'm acutely aware of that. As I recall, that's how the Heaven's Gate cult did themselves in.

re: #259 realwest

Well I'm a non-drinking alcoholic, so the Vodka's out and I'm already on Morphine to counter my cancer meds - somehow I don't think that vicodan is gonna cut it!

Sorry, you are beyond my skills as a healer. So I'll just hope that you feel better and can get some sleep.

G'nite realwest.

299 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:23:01pm

re: #281 Salamantis

Great post.

300 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:23:28pm

re: #286 mattm

LMAOTLHNTWM

301 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:25:29pm

re: #281 Salamantis

ouch....... you did indeed dodge a HUGE bullet.....

/more like a burst of them.

good luck with the ongoing recovery.

302 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:26:14pm

re: #279 Slumbering Behemoth

Made me wonder, whats worse, a long slow death or getting run over by a bus. Still not sure about that..

303 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:26:33pm

Bottom of the 15th Inning...

304 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:27:50pm

re: #300 victor_yugo

LMAOTLHNTWM

Laughing My Ass Off Then....?

305 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:27:52pm

re: #298 Lizard by the Bay

Sorry, you are beyond my skills as a healer. So I'll just hope that you feel better and can get some sleep.

G'nite realwest.

did you note my note regarding the *bad* synergistic efects of acetaminophen and alcohol on the liver? they both process through the same pathways, so by mixing them, you increase the chance of damage, short & long term both.

/FYI

306 melinwy  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:28:03pm

re: #271 Mich-again

I am sorry for your loss....a difficult situation
even when one "knows" the end is near.

307 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:28:14pm

re: #302 Mich-again

Made me wonder, whats worse, a long slow death or getting run over by a bus. Still not sure about that..

is Obama driving? %-)

308 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:28:35pm

re: #291 Mich-again

My father is 67 and beat cancer about five years ago. I try to stop and be thankful for every single additional day we get together.

And my mother-in-law is courageously fighting it today.

309 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:29:23pm

re: #307 redc1c4

is Obama driving? %-)

Ha. Even worse. Getting thrown under.

310 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:30:15pm

re: #302 Mich-again

Made me wonder, whats worse, a long slow death or getting run over by a bus. Still not sure about that..

We pray for a passing that is "peaceful, without shame and suffering".

311 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:30:43pm

re: #304 NomadOfNorad

Laughing My Ass Off Then....?

Trying Like Hell Not To Wet Myself

312 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:31:22pm

re: #311 victor_yugo

Ah. Okay, that makes sense. :D

313 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:32:23pm

re: #302 Mich-again

Made me wonder, whats worse, a long slow death or getting run over by a bus. Still not sure about that..

Hmmm... I'd rather the bus, but I don't get to pick. Well, I could, but that's not a road I would take.

314 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:33:41pm

re: #310 victor_yugo

We pray for a passing that is "peaceful, without shame and suffering".

I agree with that. And I wouldn't want it to set off any family feuds either.

315 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:33:49pm

re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth

"I plan to live forever... or die trying." --tagline

:D :D :D :D

316 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:34:54pm

re: #305 redc1c4

did you note my note regarding the *bad* synergistic efects of acetaminophen and alcohol on the liver? they both process through the same pathways, so by mixing them, you increase the chance of damage, short & long term both.

/FYI

Good call. I'll be switching to Lortab ASA immediately.

317 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:35:23pm

re: #311 victor_yugo

Trying Like Hell Not To Wet Myself

so, it's an old person thing?

/white smoke!

318 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:36:08pm

Mickey Mantle wisdom..

If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

and this one too...

He who has the fastest golf cart never has a bad lie.
319 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:36:46pm

re: #317 redc1c4

Or maybe a very very young person thing...?

320 BigJohn  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:36:58pm

re: #267 redc1c4

get it wrong and you'll *sleep* a whole lot longer than you'd planned on.

still hard as hell on your liver even if you don't screw up: acetaminophen & ETOH are *really* hard on the old organ.

I suggest Ibuprofen and Whiskey (Irish, Scotch, Bourbon). It makes my immediate gout pain "Its Bitch".

321 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:13pm

re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth

I think I'd rather know so that I could get my affairs in order, say goodbye, destroy the porn collection... you know, important stuff!

322 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:21pm

re: #281 Salamantis

Yikes. I'm gonna remember that. I had food poisoning once that felt like that, but I decided to ride it out (five days). I was lucky, it was food poising (my buddy ate the same thing, same results), but it could have just as easily been something worse.

Your tale is an object lesson on why I should not go the "ride it out tough guy" route. Thanks for sharing that.

323 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:38pm

re: #316 Lizard by the Bay

Good call. I'll be switching to Lortab ASA immediately.

then you'll be trading a bleeding ulcer/perforated stomach for liver failure:
at least it's faster. %-)

/if you insist, try Norco, or the ilk: much less APAP per tab.....

324 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:42pm

AL wins in the 15th

325 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:47pm

It's over! AL wins AGAIN.

326 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:52pm

Big slowww white guy tags up and the AL wins! Ha.

327 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:37:53pm

AL wins, 15 innings 4-3

328 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:38:09pm

I was hoping for a grand slam, but I'll take a sac fly.

329 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:38:31pm

4 hours and 50 minutes total game time

330 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:38:54pm

re: #324 Yankee Division Son

'Bout frickin' time!

331 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:38:59pm

re: #320 BigJohn

I suggest Ibuprofen and Whiskey (Irish, Scotch, Bourbon). It makes my immediate gout pain "Its Bitch".

until your gut goes instead.....

/not that i haven't done similar: it's just not a good idea. %-)

332 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:39:45pm

re: #324 Yankee Division Son

AL wins in the 15th


what game was this?

333 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:40:03pm

re: #323 redc1c4

/if you insist, try Norco, or the ilk: much less APAP per tab.....

Would that be better than a hydrocodone/ibuprofen mix?

334 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:40:06pm

I guess the Red Sox will have to win it on the road again this year when they sweep the Series for the third time in five years.

335 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:40:24pm

re: #330 victor_yugo

'Bout frickin' time!

LOL.. .

336 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:40:42pm

re: #321 Lizard by the Bay

I think I'd rather know so that I could get my affairs in order, say goodbye, destroy the porn collection... you know, important stuff!

Suit yourself, my collection is going in my will.

/You like the midget stuff, right?
//I kid.

337 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:40:43pm

re: #332 redc1c4

what game was this?

Baseball's All-Star game.

338 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:41:00pm

re: #332 redc1c4

what game was this?

All-Star game

339 wolfie  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:41:12pm

4-3 in 15 ! (Al wins on sac fly)

340 Inquisitive  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:41:13pm

re: #271 Mich-again

We buried my Father in Law this morning. He lost a long bout with cancer. We were there with him in the hospital room when he finally gave up fighting and asked for the morphine drip to just end it all. The guy never had much use for any organized religion, but he lived a good life and was always a lot of fun to hang out with.


So sorry for your families loss."But he lived a good life and was always a lot of fun to hang out with" is a great tribute to any person, and these few words says a lot about the person he must have been.
Prayers for all the family.

341 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:41:16pm

AL is 11 - 0 - 1 since 1997.

342 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:41:19pm

re: #321 Lizard by the Bay

I think I'd rather know so that I could get my affairs in order, say goodbye, destroy pass on the porn collection... you know, important stuff!

don't forget the guns: you have to make sure the guns are gone before the cops get there, or they will take them "for safekeeping".

/happened to a friend

343 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:42:06pm

My 3 kids will have to fight over the 71 Les Paul. I plan on taking that with me.

344 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:44:07pm

re: #321 Lizard by the Bay

I think I'd rather know so that I could get my affairs in order, say goodbye, destroy the porn collection... you know, important stuff!

Trouble is, you could be young, be as healthy as an ox, and be on your way down to cash in the winning lottery ticket... when suddenly you get clobbered by a meteorite! You just never know. :D

Probably best to always have your house in order, just in case.

345 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:44:10pm

MVP = J.D. Drew?

346 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:44:57pm

re: #340 Inquisitive

and these few words says a lot about the person he must have been.

Good point and thanks..

347 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:45:31pm

re: #345 Yankee Division Son

Yep. Who else?

348 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:46:05pm

Drew: the 15th player in All-Star game history to homer in his first ever All-Star at bat.

349 BigJohn  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:47:10pm

re: #331 redc1c4

Well I've been lucky. I have never had stomach problems, but I don't take that combo very often; just when I felt gout coming on. Probably twice in the last year and a half.

350 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:47:21pm

Yes its J. D. Drew. Ha.

351 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:47:45pm

re: #333 Lizard by the Bay

Would that be better than a hydrocodone/ibuprofen mix?

i'm not gonna play doc:
1. it's above my training level
2. every doc would tell you "bad idea, don't do either."

APAP has liver issues with ethanol than can kill you
ASA and NASIDS have gut lining issues with ethanol than can kill you
Hydrocodone has amelioration issues with ethanol tha can kill you.
there are other side issues involved, all of which, sooner or later, can kill you.

ergo, no combo of any of the above is a good idea. you are playing Russian roulette *every* time you do this.

if you are doing this just to sleep, you need to talk to your doc & pharmacist to find something safer.

if you are in pain, and that's causing the lack of sleep, you need to review your meds with the pros in the above line, and if necessary, see a pain management specialist.

on the off chance you're doing it for the buzz, it's gonna injure/kill you one day, sooner or later.

352 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:49:29pm

It is sweet to see a Red Sox player win the MVP at Yankees Stadium.

353 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:49:39pm

re: #350 Mich-again

Yes its J. D. Drew. Ha.

didn't he used to be an LA Dodger.....

/sigh

we trade for shit, and we trade away*the* shit.
(bring back the O'Malleys! %-)

354 solomonpanting  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:50:17pm

Now here's an intelligently designed name:

Asia Times

Mar 6, 2008

CAMPAIGN OUTSIDER
Mud flies, Clinton wins




By Muhammad Cohen

355 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:50:26pm

Charles!

Every post in my page from #302 forward is missing the plus/minus icons and the comment rating. All they have is the heart icon and the exclamation icon.

356 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:50:39pm

re: #352 freedombilly

It is sweet to see a Red Sox player win the MVP at Yankees Stadium.

Yep. Even better because this is the last year for the "old" stadium.

357 Panhandler  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:51:41pm

re: #355 victor_yugo
Still got em, ding up on your 355.

358 freedombilly  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:52:03pm

re: #355 victor_yugo

Did you try to refresh the page, not just hit "New Comments"? That usually works for me when that happens.

359 victor_yugo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:52:38pm

re: #358 freedombilly

Did you try to refresh the page, not just hit "New Comments"? That usually works for me when that happens.

Aha, that means I'm not the only one seeing this.

360 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:53:06pm

re: #355 victor_yugo

Charles!

Every post in my page from #302 forward is missing the plus/minus icons and the comment rating. All they have is the heart icon and the exclamation icon.

Hit refresh... that ought to take care of it.

361 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:53:27pm

re: #356 mattm

Yep. Even better because this is the last year for the "old" stadium.

They're presumably going to build a bigger and better one by next season, right? I hope the new one does the old one justice. I.e. that they give us a design style that invokes the feeling of the old park.

362 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:53:37pm

re: #355 victor_yugo

Charles!

Every post in my page from #302 forward is missing the plus/minus icons and the comment rating. All they have is the heart icon and the exclamation icon.

reload..... and try flushing your cache first.

/here to help?

363 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:53:58pm

re: #354 solomonpanting

Heh, this is so far my favorite sentence there:

Nice math if you can get it.

Math, work, whatever.

364 melinwy  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:54:28pm

re: #320 BigJohn

for gout, cherry juice works wonders
amazing stuff, my hubby had it and drank
the cherry juice, all is well now

365 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:55:49pm

re: #332 redc1c4

and he gets two bites on the bait. %-)

366 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:57:11pm

re: #356 mattm

Yep. Even better because this is the last year for the "old" stadium.

The "old" stadium that's 64 years newer than Fenway.

367 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:58:06pm

re: #254 jaunte

Under the short-bus?
/

368 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:58:13pm

re: #366 Abu Al-Poopypants

Eh? Just how "old" IS this stadium?

369 solomonpanting  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 10:59:46pm

re: #363 Slumbering Behemoth


Math, work, whatever.

Both are four-letter words.

370 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:00:16pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

Yikes. I'm gonna remember that. I had food poisoning once that felt like that, but I decided to ride it out (five days). I was lucky, it was food poising (my buddy ate the same thing, same results), but it could have just as easily been something worse.

Your tale is an object lesson on why I should not go the "ride it out tough guy" route. Thanks for sharing that.

Sal: NO WAY this kinda maxxed-out grenades-exploding-in-yer-gut total pain could be ridden out; you'd be raving "Take me to the hospital NOW!" even if no one was there, just as surely as you'd spill the beans to the nearest wall if you were waterboarded. When it gets that excruciatingly intense, will washes away like water, as does a lot of external perception, and all that's left is ITSGOTTASTOP!

I've had cluster headaches, in cycles. I've passed kidney stones that made me piss pink for a week. I've packed my campsite up, backpacked myself three miles to my car with a whittled sapling crutch, and driven 50 miles into town with a snapped leg. But THIS pain was on a COMPLETELY different level.

371 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:00:55pm

Yankee Stadium was basically knocked down and rebuilt from 73-76. Fenway's plans for being similarly rebuilt in the early '00s were nixed by the current ownership when they took over.

372 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:01:24pm

re: #369 solomonpanting

Technically, so are both and four.

:D :D :D :D

373 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:02:12pm

re: #368 NomadOfNorad

Eh? Just how "old" IS this stadium?

It opened in 1923.

374 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:02:36pm

re: #370 Salamantis

I've passed kidney stones that made me piss pink for a week. I've packed my campsite up, backpacked myself three miles to my car with a whittled sapling crutch, and driven 50 miles into town with a snapped leg.


I hate when that happens.

375 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:02:54pm

Any IDers lurking tonight?


I've got a question for you. If the Intelligent Design movement has nothing to do with Creationism and isn't an attempt to circumvent the constitution by inserting religion into science classes, why is Howard Ahmanson a major financial backer and on their board of Directors? The same Howard Ahmanson who funded and sat on the board of the Chalcedon Foundation?

376 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:02:59pm

re: #373 mattm

What sorts of changes, if any, have been made to it since 1923?

377 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:05:09pm

re: #363 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, this is so far my favorite sentence there:

Math, work, whatever.

you misspelled 'w*rk'......

HTH!

378 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:05:34pm

re: #375 Wendya

ARE YOU NUTS?!?!?!?! DON'T DANGLE CARROTS IN FRONT OF THE ID'ERS HERE! ! !

379 BigJohn  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:06:27pm

re: #364 melinwy

Thank you. My aunt suggested that also. I have not had a severe attack in over 3 years. I know how it feels when it begins. A huge dose of Ibuprofen knocks it out pretty quick for me. Before that when it had already set in, Ibuprofen and booze made it tolerable until it went away.

380 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:08:37pm

re: #370 Salamantis

my friend, now officially the toughest guy i know, had a kidney stone that his quack doc said didn't exist. it started down his urethra, got almost to the tip, where he could see & feel the point, when it stopped.

he pulled it out with tweezers, and now wears in, encased in resin, as a ncek lace. it's about the diameter of a #2 pencil. %-)

/drink more water!

381 solomonpanting  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:09:44pm

re: #372 NomadOfNorad

Technically, so are both and four.

:D :D :D :D

Twue, but math and work are the recipients of more invective than both and four.
8)

382 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:10:16pm

re: #381 solomonpanting

:D :D :D :D :D :D

383 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:10:31pm

re: #370 Salamantis

Sucks, doesn't it? In the last 20 years with Crohn's I've had plenty of experiences like that. It's kind of sad that people don't actually believe in pain on that level until they live it. They think you're exaggerating or being overly dramatic.

384 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:10:34pm

re: #381 solomonpanting

Twue, but math and work are the recipients of more invective than both and four.
8)

"math is hard!"

/Barbie

385 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:11:02pm

re: #376 NomadOfNorad

What sorts of changes, if any, have been made to it since 1923?

I know it underwent major construction in the 1970's, basically rebuilding portions.

386 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:11:36pm

re: #383 esch

Sucks, doesn't it? In the last 20 years with Crohn's I've had plenty of experiences like that. It's kind of sad that people don't actually believe in pain on that level until they live it. They think you're exaggerating or being overly dramatic.

makes me glad all i've got is UC....

the worst part of it is it's all my fault. %-(

387 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:13:14pm

re: #385 mattm

Did any of that rebuilding of sections involve expanding the size of the place? Or adding more levels of seating?

388 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:13:24pm

re: #386 redc1c4

How do you figure?

389 mattm  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:17:15pm

re: #387 NomadOfNorad

Did any of that rebuilding of sections involve expanding the size of the place? Or adding more levels of seating?

It appears the capacity was reduced after the renovation.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

390 pat  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:17:42pm

Late as usual. But the premise means nothing and is stupid. Typical Muslim Logic, but hardly worthy of comment. There is no one convinced this is meaningful discourse.
Again, it looks like Muslims desperately looking for a toe-hold in the modern Universe. Hindus no longer think of the world as being the back of a turtle, and I know of which I speak here, Christians no longer think the world is the center of the Universe, (unproven, but unlikely,lol). Muslims still believe whatever BS they hear on Friday. I believe the transcendence of Islam is caught in the thrall of ignorant , rather stupid, village bullies with 2 followers repreaching a 1000 years of nonsense.
We should not attribute Creationist thought to Islam. There is no nexus. ID and Creationism may be unscientific, but it is hardly Islamic.

391 laZardo  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:17:50pm

re: #380 redc1c4

Happy Wednesday to you too. (;

392 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:18:26pm

re: #387 NomadOfNorad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Stadium
Since a significant portion of the stadium was demolished and rebuilt, some consider the rebuilt Yankee Stadium a different facility from the pre-renovation stadium. For example, the ESPN Sports Almanac considers the renovated stadium to be "Yankee Stadium II," and the pre-renovated facility to be "Yankee Stadium I".

FWIW

393 NY Nana  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:20:03pm

re: #390 pat

Isn't muslim logic an oxymoron?

Got to go to sleep....looooong day!

G'nite, all.

394 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:20:27pm

re: #370 Salamantis

Pain is subjective, but I will take your word for it. I've never had diverticulitis (nor a busted colon), so I wouldn't know, and I can't pretend to speak to what kind of pain you were in. I hope you don't think that's what I was doing.

395 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:22:03pm

re: #380 redc1c4

my friend, now officially the toughest guy i know, had a kidney stone that his quack doc said didn't exist. it started down his urethra, got almost to the tip, where he could see & feel the point, when it stopped.

he pulled it out with tweezers, and now wears in, encased in resin, as a ncek lace. it's about the diameter of a #2 pencil. %-)

/drink more water!

My first Kidney stone was an inch long, the width of a pencil and covered in spikes. It wedged itself in the right ureter and moved very slowly over a period of a couple of weeks. At the time, I was living in the middle east and they kept telling me it would pass. Uh-huh. I ended up flying to London 2 days before Christmas and then back to the USA (after diverting to Canada because of a massive storm) and on to Portland Oregon. I sort of remember the taxi to the hospital and then I don't remember a damned thing for the next 72 hours. Short story... it wasn't going to evacuate by itself and had to be removed.

The pain was so intense I was beyond screaming. Don't want to ever go there again!

396 pat  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:22:05pm

re: #393 NY Nana

Isn't muslim logic an oxymoron?

Got to go to sleep....looooong day!

G'nite, all.

Yep. lol, nite

397 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:23:03pm

re: #388 esch

How do you figure?

industrial strength gut, until i started w*rking in the medical field....

started taking Zantac & such, due to acid issues, mostly self inflicted: too much coffee, not enough food, etc.

ate at a hole in the wall, and the bug ran wild. irritated everything, but eventually got better. repeated this several times until gut got *really* bad. even my favorite beers, the ones with yeast residue, would trigger episodes.

did some thinking, and extrapolated that the Ph change cause by the H2 receptor site inhibitors caused my flora & fauna to change, due to the change in habitat and everything went down hill from there.

haven't taken one since, and am much better, but may never be back to "pre" status every.....

/at least i can drink beer again! %-)

398 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:24:31pm

re: #378 NomadOfNorad

ARE YOU NUTS?!?!?!?! DON'T DANGLE CARROTS IN FRONT OF THE ID'ERS HERE! ! !

I thought I'd give it a shot and see if anyone was stupid enough to take the bait.

I guess they're all in bed asleep.

399 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:24:52pm

re: #390 pat

ID and Creationism may be unscientific, but it is hardly Islamic.

they seem to 'think'* otherwise....

/*term used loosely %-)

400 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:25:40pm

re: #398 Wendya

I thought I'd give it a shot and see if anyone was stupid enough to take the bait.

I guess they're all in bed asleep.

or dinging people down in old threads......

/not likely that they're drinking %-)

401 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:26:14pm

re: #383 esch

Sucks, doesn't it? In the last 20 years with Crohn's I've had plenty of experiences like that. It's kind of sad that people don't actually believe in pain on that level until they live it. They think you're exaggerating or being overly dramatic.

Yeah; it sucked great big greasy green donkey dicks, on dry ice. It should be an example in the urban dictionary, to define total suckage.

402 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:27:20pm

re: #398 Wendya

I would hope so. Anyway, it kinda looked like Charles was on a short fuse tonight... :-|

403 Ojoe  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:29:25pm
Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, recently restated his (and Pope John Paul's) argument. As MSNBC reported, Pope Benedict has referred to the debate between creationists and supporters of evolutionary theory as an "absurdity":

"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.


Link

404 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:29:40pm

re: #395 Wendya

My first Kidney stone was an inch long, the width of a pencil and covered in spikes. It wedged itself in the right ureter and moved very slowly over a period of a couple of weeks. At the time, I was living in the middle east and they kept telling me it would pass. Uh-huh. I ended up flying to London 2 days before Christmas and then back to the USA (after diverting to Canada because of a massive storm) and on to Portland Oregon. I sort of remember the taxi to the hospital and then I don't remember a damned thing for the next 72 hours. Short story... it wasn't going to evacuate by itself and had to be removed.

The pain was so intense I was beyond screaming. Don't want to ever go there again!

they're *all* covered in spikes..... they're crystals.

his 2nd (new/competent) doc said that it's the biggest stone he's ever seen that was passed whole. all others this size in his experience were surgically removed, hence my admiration/awe for Nick..... even if he *is* a crazy bastid.

405 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:29:48pm

OT:

FOX NEWS IS REPORTING THE TWO "BODIES" OF GOLDWASSER AND REGEV HAVE ARRIVED AT THE BORDER FOR EXCHANGE.

I was 99% sure this is how it would be, but I was clinging to the 1% hope that at least one of them would be alive.

406 Ojoe  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:31:44pm

re: #374 Abu Al-Poopypants

You get the wilderness survival and first aid merit badges.

407 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:32:47pm

re: #401 Salamantis

Yeah; it sucked great big greasy green donkey dicks, on dry ice. It should be an example in the urban dictionary, to define total suckage.

Yep. Once my wife got sick with something very and chronically painful (she got better) she apologized for ever making or thinking light of my pain. It was now real to her.

408 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:33:07pm

re: #405 American Jewess In Jerusalem

OT:

FOX NEWS IS REPORTING THE TWO "BODIES" OF GOLDWASSER AND REGEV HAVE ARRIVED AT THE BORDER FOR EXCHANGE.

I was 99% sure this is how it would be, but I was clinging to the 1% hope that at least one of them would be alive.

it's sad, but just like when our troops in OIF/OEF get captured, you have to assume they kill them almost immediately.

where is the outcry from the Gitmo whiners when *that* occurs?

/rhetorical

409 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:33:40pm

re: #405 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Have they released the prisoners yet? (I would hope they tagged them with some kind of ultra-ultra-miniature radio tracking device...)

410 esch  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:33:52pm

Night all.

411 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:34:07pm

re: #383 esch

Sucks, doesn't it? In the last 20 years with Crohn's I've had plenty of experiences like that. It's kind of sad that people don't actually believe in pain on that level until they live it. They think you're exaggerating or being overly dramatic.

That is not at all what I meant with my response to Sal's post, if that is what you're implying.

412 Ojoe  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:36:18pm

re: #56 MandyManners

I myself descended from bears.

Heck with this ape shit.

Far back, I come from this.

413 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:37:16pm

re: #394 Slumbering Behemoth

Pain is subjective, but I will take your word for it. I've never had diverticulitis (nor a busted colon), so I wouldn't know, and I can't pretend to speak to what kind of pain you were in. I hope you don't think that's what I was doing.

Sal: Don't worry; I didn't think that you were. In fact, I KNOW that if you sat at home for five days, you weren't experiencing anything resembling what I went through...Chuck Norris himself would've roundkicked himself through ER triage, and Braveheart would have screamed Morphine! instead of Freedom...;~)

It is said that the worst way to die from a bullet is to be gutshot. I think that the reason that this is said has a lot to do with what people see gutshot people going through while they are dying.

414 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:37:34pm

re: #412 Ojoe

I myself descended from bears.

Heck with this ape shit.

Far back, I come from this.

Now that would make a cool avatar for someone.

415 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:37:42pm

re: #400 redc1c4

or dinging people down in old threads......

ROTFL!

I went back and looked at the last couple of ID threads I've posted on and sure enough..... some little twit dings down every comment I make, yet she doesn't have the guts to comment on those threads herself.


Why am I not surprised?

416 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:39:05pm

re: #407 esch

Yep. Once my wife got sick with something very and chronically painful (she got better) she apologized for ever making or thinking light of my pain. It was now real to her.

severe burns are fun too, especially the debriedment process shrtly after the initial injury.....

especially if the active army doctor decides that the NG trooper involved doesn't need any pain meds prior to the procedure.

literally, i had a bandanna rolled up and in my mouth, like an old John Wayne movie. that's all, not even an aspirin, even after. in the midst of it all i kicked a hole in the wall of the room where they were conducting this "treatment".

said officer threatened me with being charged for the expense of the repair. not feeling charitable, and somewhat put out, i pointed out, with proper military discipline, that my boot could have gone the other direction...... (his crotch level) that was the end of the discussion and my treatment @ weed army hospital.

my follow on care at LBNH is another nightmare of military indifference, but not germane to the issues at hand.

/burns suck! %-)

417 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:39:49pm

re: #409 NomadOfNorad

Have they released the prisoners yet? (I would hope they tagged them with some kind of ultra-ultra-miniature radio tracking device...)

i hope they tagged them with 100 mcg of ricin.

418 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:43:32pm

re: #405 American Jewess In Jerusalem

The exchange should have been an equal one.

My drift?

419 Salamantis  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:44:04pm

re: #395 Wendya

My first Kidney stone was an inch long, the width of a pencil and covered in spikes. It wedged itself in the right ureter and moved very slowly over a period of a couple of weeks. At the time, I was living in the middle east and they kept telling me it would pass. Uh-huh. I ended up flying to London 2 days before Christmas and then back to the USA (after diverting to Canada because of a massive storm) and on to Portland Oregon. I sort of remember the taxi to the hospital and then I don't remember a damned thing for the next 72 hours. Short story... it wasn't going to evacuate by itself and had to be removed.

The pain was so intense I was beyond screaming. Don't want to ever go there again!


Yeah. That kinda pain. My kidney stones have all been blessedly passable, with the administration of narcotics in most cases ( a couple I passed without them). Here's how that works:

Your urethral tube spasms when the kidney stone drops in, and locks down on it...but the pressure of the urine pushes it down through the spasming conduit...until it locks up, and won't go any farther (and they do this once they exceed a certain size). Then, eventually, the channel ruptures, and you piss all into your insides, like I shat into mine. What the narcotics do is to relax the urethral canal spasms, and allow the stone to wash on through - unless it's too big for even that, like yours was. In that case, surgery is the only option.

420 Wendya  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:44:20pm

re: #404 redc1c4

they're *all* covered in spikes..... they're crystals.

his 2nd (new/competent) doc said that it's the biggest stone he's ever seen that was passed whole. all others this size in his experience were surgically removed, hence my admiration/awe for Nick..... even if he *is* a crazy bastid.

Actually, the second one I had was rather smooth.... looked more like a pebble. I was actually able to pass that one and it was a walk in the park compared to #1.

421 wanglese  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:45:06pm

This should really worry the IDers.
Instead of teaching Christianity in science class, they are going to have to teach Islam, and use the Koran as a science text, along with the Bible.

I can see IDer's heads exploding at the concept.

422 Ojoe  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:46:51pm

re: #415 Wendya

We'll she if she dings down the Pope in my post No. 403.

423 Panhandler  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:48:07pm

re: #420 Wendya
Worst part for me was in the ER after the CAT scan. Doc comes in and says he has good news and bad news - Good news, the stone looks like it has passed. The bad news - there's 2 more and the 2nd one is on its way down.

424 AmeriDan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:49:28pm

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #405 American Jewess In Jerusalem

The exchange should have been an equal one.

My drift?

That sums up my feelings perfectly.

Hello Ladies and Gentleman... and Red. ;)

425 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:51:30pm

re: #420 Wendya

Actually, the second one I had was rather smooth.... looked more like a pebble. I was actually able to pass that one and it was a walk in the park compared to #1.

smaller spikes..... Nicks was like fine sandpaper to the touch, but still.....

/cringe

426 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:51:30pm

re: #421 wanglese

The ones in "the know" (DI insiders) aren't suffering from exploding heads, they are reveling in exploding wallets.

427 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:52:01pm

re: #424 AmeriDan

On the other hand, if they'd implanted into them some sort of radio tracking device... then they could have waited until they were at some kind of meeting with other terrorist types... then send a radio-guided bomb to that location. Muahahahahaha!

428 redc1c4  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:54:40pm

re: #424 AmeriDan

That sums up my feelings perfectly.

Hello Ladies and Gentleman... and Rred. ;)

/fixed that for ya!

Que Paso?

429 AmeriDan  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:58:20pm

re: #427 NomadOfNorad

On the other hand, if they'd implanted into them some sort of radio tracking device... then they could have waited until they were at some kind of meeting with other terrorist types... then send a radio-guided bomb to that location. Muahahahahaha!

Good point.

Of course the meeting would be described by the useful idiots of the MSM as a "wedding" after it was bombed, because we all know that there has never been a wedding in the ME that wasn't bombed by the US.

430 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Jul 15, 2008 11:59:50pm

re: #429 AmeriDan

Good point.

Of course the meeting would be described by the useful idiots of the MSM as a "wedding" after it was bombed, because we all know that there has never been a wedding in the ME that wasn't bombed by the US.

Then there must not be very many weddings. :-|

431 wanglese  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:02:03am

#420:

I had a big one in my left Kidney, and it had moved down into the urethra, and wedged. I had to have "stent" inserted in my dingus for a week so that they could widen the pathway so that in the second op, they could put in a "basket" to get it out.

It was day surgery, but I couldn't urinate when I got home, and I needed to, so we had to go back in the hospital so they could shove a tube in to "ease the pressure".
I remember the specialist saying "I'll bet right now, that if I nail you to the door by your fingernails, you will say the pain is less" He said that kind of pain is the greatest pain a male can endure.

I asked the specialist if I could keep the stone after it was removed, because I wanted it mounted.
I sent a photo of it compared to a $2.00 coin for reference to a mate in Idaho (Hi Coach!). He described it as "the Sandstone Arrowhead of Agony", which is apt. That's its shape and appearance.

432 redc1c4  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:03:30am

re: #429 AmeriDan

Good point.

Of course the meeting would be described by the useful idiots of the MSM as a "wedding" after it was bombed, because we all know that there has never been a wedding in the ME that wasn't bombed by the US.

"The wedding was great, but the reception bombed.... the firew*rks were too loud."

433 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:04:13am

re: #405 American Jewess In Jerusalem

I'm terribly sorry. I too didn't think...well....I was hoping against this despite my brain. I'm very sorry for our friend Israel.

434 redc1c4  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:07:00am

re: #427 NomadOfNorad

On the other hand, if they'd implanted into them some sort of radio tracking device... then they could have waited until they were at some kind of meeting with other terrorist types... then send a radio-guided bomb to that location. Muahahahahaha!

have to be non-transmitting, otherwise too easy to spot. you'd have to figure they're going to expect humint/drone/aircraft/sattelite recon on the issue and take appropriate steps.

that's why, imho, a nice dose of ricin, in a gelatin time delay just before he left, would be the way to go. AMF!

435 AmeriDan  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:07:48am

re: #428 redc1c4

/fixed that for ya!

Que Paso?

Aye, aye on the lower case. As for your video link...

God Bless Texas

436 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:08:17am
437 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:10:18am

I'm starting to get the impression the creationists aren't coming tonight. Perhaps even they know better than to excuse this unholy alliance in this house.

438 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:11:13am

re: #437 Sharmuta

I'm starting to get the impression the creationists aren't coming tonight. Perhaps even they know better than to excuse this unholy alliance in this house.

Or maybe they've selected themselves out...the worst die first...

439 AmeriDan  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:17:54am

re: #430 NomadOfNorad

Then there must not be very many weddings. :-|

There's always a wedding.

I could google more, but what would be the point? If a large gathering of people are bombed... it is always a wedding, or a funeral, or a religious service, Tupperware party, etc.

440 Mel Lono  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:18:37am

re: #438 Salamantis

Or maybe they've selected themselves out...the worst die first...


tough crowd, creationists, islamists or spiky kidney stones...

441 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:18:52am
442 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:19:21am

re: #434 redc1c4

have to be non-transmitting, otherwise too easy to spot. you'd have to figure they're going to expect humint/drone/aircraft/sattelite recon on the issue and take appropriate steps.

that's why, imho, a nice dose of ricin, in a gelatin time delay just before he left, would be the way to go. AMF!

Very good point, on both counts. Course, a variation on the implanted-radio-tracking-device idea would be to build in some kind of timed delay, or set it up so it only transmitted when a certain signal was beamed at it...

443 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:20:05am

Or maybe it's their new plan...they tried to dissuade Charles by squalling, but he kept posting, and kicking their whiny buttocks when they got too raucous. Maybe now they've decided to simmer down for a while, and see how that works.

My guess, though, based upon what I've seen with the Vlamms Belang posts, and the fact that he still posts new stuff on them and their US connections when he runs across it, is that it doesn't matter WHAT they do or do not do; if Charles runs into a link that mentions a way kewl evolutionary theory innovation or evidence discovery, or if he runs into anything that he deems shareworthy about the Disco Dudes, or Yahya, or their connections, we'll be seeing it. And I LIKE that.

444 pat  Wed, Jul 16, 2008 12:23:20am

Actually Kidney Stones are caused by Global Warming.
[Link: deathby1000papercuts.com...]

445 AmeriDan