[deleted]

"Disgusting" just doesn't seem to be enough of a descriptor.

Anything beyond that would get me deleted.

Olmert is the worst leader in Israel's history.

And from Hamas on this abomination;

A Hamas spokesman said the swap was a "victory for the resistance," adding: "It proves that a useful way to liberate prisoners from the jails of the occupation is to capture Zionist soldiers."

Terrible trade.

This makes me ill. I'm checking out until a new thread pops up.

Now that I'm home...where's my gun and what's the next mission

no real words for this one. what an utter failure and surrender. this will only spur the splodeydopes on to more and more violence. it just makes no sense, on any level, but submission.....

Remeber, they still got an Isreali soldier...Gahlid S.

Red

Samir Kuntar is the conscience of Lebanon, Palestine and the Arab nation

Not exactly a glowing recommendation for keeping them around.

Though, before we go dumping on Israel too much, remember the real fundamental issue here:

This only confirms what grotesque barbarians Hezbollah really are.

It is Israel's shame that they even interact with these monsters at all.

I think it's worth recounting the actions of Lebanon's "national hero," via Wikipedia:

After drowning Danny [the father] in the sea in front of Einat (as Ahmed Al-Brass, Mhanna Salim Al-Muayed, and Abdel Majeed Asslan served as look outs and backup cover for Kuntar), Kuntar turned his attention towards the 4 year-old. He took his rifle and then swung it across the toddler's head, knocking her to the ground. Kuntar then dragged the toddler a couple of feet to the closest rock he could find and laid her head down on a rock, with the intention of crushing it with the butt of his rifle. Einat, instinctively covered her head with her arms, Kuntar struggled with the toddler until he finally managed to clear her arms out of the way. Once her arms were out of the way, Kuntar repeatedly beat her on the head with the butt of his rifle and stomping on her body, until blood rushed out of her ears and mouth. Then, to ensure she was dead, Kuntar continued beating her over the head until her skull was crushed and she was dead.

This absolutely sickens me. Has Israel taken leave of its senses?
/Feh

I'll say it again:

"The Beast & the Whore rule without control."

-William Blake

re: #9 Fiery Red XIII

Remeber, they still got an Isreali soldier...Gahlid S.

Red

Start leveling Gaza, a block at a time, till he is set free.

This is their call, but it seems absurdly contrary to Israel's self interest.

re: #3 zombie

That may be. This "exchange" just makes no sense. It's a disgrace.

Mohammedans like child killers, but they worship

Samir Kuntar is the conscience of Lebanon, Palestine and the Arab nation

Actually, that's probably true.

This is so depressing.

re: #12 AntonK

I think it's worth recounting the actions of Lebanon's "national hero," via Wikipedia:

My opinion of the ROP just got a whole lot lower, if that was even possible.

How can anyone -- even someone severely mentally ill -- celebrate such a person?

How can an entire culture consider him a hero?

Where is the State of Texas when you need it? Why Israel fails to shoot these bastards when they have them mystifies me.

official admission of defeat

Charles called it.

[barf]

re: #1 Alouette

[deleted]

[deleted]

While personally I don't believe this was a good decision, I have to say that Israel as a nation has a very strong principle: "our soldiers must come home - dead or alive". We follow that principle no matter what.

A little bit of historical perspective:

March 1979: 76 terrorists released in exchange for one reservist.

November 1983: 4,700 lebanese and 65 palestinians released in exchange for 8 soldiers.

July 1984: 304 syrian POWs and 74 bodies of syrian soldiers exchanged for 6 IDF soldiers.

May 1985: 1,105 palestinian and other terrorists (including Kozo Okamoto, the japanese responsible for the 1972 terrorist attack in Ben Gurion, Ahmed Yasin who later went on to found HAMAS, and Ahmed Abarras, one of Samir Kuntar’s co-terrorists) in exchange for 3 israelis.

July 1996: 20 Hezballah terrorists and 123 bodies exchanged for two bodies of IDF soldiers killed in Lebanon 10 years earlier.

June 1998: 60 lebanese and 40 bodies exchanged for the body of an IDF soldier.

November 2003: 400 terrorists (including sheikh Obeid and Dirani, senior figures in Hezballah and Amal) released with 59 bodies in exchange for 3 bodies of IDF soldiers and Elhanan Tannenbaum, a reserve colonel.

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They will just put him in the 1st block.....if he's still alive!

Let's negotiate with the terrorists, says Hussein Obama

It should have been an equal trade- coffins for coffins.

re: #22 GreenDroll

Where is the State of Texas when you need it? Why Israel fails to shoot these bastards when they have them mystifies me.

Maybe it's time for us to establish "Texas on the Jordan."

Want to hear from a genuine man of peace? Someone my government and my President think is just a swell guy deserving of my tax dollars.

Abbas congratulates Kuntar's family

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday sent his regards to the families of Lebanese terrorist Samir Kuntar and the other four Lebanese prisoners scheduled to be transferred to Hizbullah.

Abbas praised the prisoner swap and congratulated the Kuntar family.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

What more from this peacemaker and the organization he leads which the US funds and trains?

PA court sentences two to death for 'collaboration'

A Palestinian Authority security court in Jenin sentenced two Palestinians to death for "collaboration with the Israeli enemy" on Tuesday.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

You're with us or with the terrorists?

I hate the terrorists and all their supporters: Bush, Rice, Olmert, Livni, Barak......

Time to go to work Mossad ...

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

His name is Gilad Schalit. And as much as I'd like it to happen, I don't see how leveling Gaza would bring him back. If he's not dead already (and his captors have no reason whatsoever to keep him alive now that they know they can get the same concessions for a dead body as for a live soldier), he would be by the time they found him.

Israel has backed itself into a total lose-lose situation here.

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Start leveling Gaza, a block at a time, till he is set free.

I think that is what they want. Then they could really be victims.

Mr. Kuntar and Mr. Nasrallah, I'd like to introduce you to my little friend - Mr. JDAM

By the way...

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said he was “encouraged by the prisoner swap and hoped that it was the first of many more.”

"Many more"?
Does he mean they should kidnap more israelis?

re: #9 Fiery Red XIII

Gilad Shalit is being held by Hamas. And Hamas' demands have never changed from the outset - the release of hundreds of Palestinian terrorists from Israeli jails.

re: #25 tzefa

While personally I don't believe this was a good decision, I have to say that Israel as a nation has a very strong principle: "our soldiers must come home - dead or alive". We follow that principle no matter what.

No matter what?

Insanity is not a principle. It's just insanity.

Today has been so hard, such a depressing day, but I'm so relieved that two of the soldiers are home. Hopefully Kantar meets with an accident, shortly. I posted pictures of him on a previous thread. He is scary to look at -- a real psychopath.

re: #26 'Nam Grunt

They will just put him in the 1st block.....if he's still alive!

1) you dont tell them where you'll start
2) They can't free him if he's dead, and you dont stop destroying Gaza till he is free.

re: #31 turn

Time to go to work Mossad ...

Yes.

re: #25 tzefa

Right. And you see a pattern there? Israel's moral high ground has resulted in an endless cascade of kidnappings, murders and exchanges of live terrorists for dead bodies. That's what rewarding bad behavior does. Where does it stop? Certainly not here.

Ban Ki-Moon said he was “encouraged by the prisoner swap and hoped that it was the first of many more.”

He wouldn't be saying that if it were his kids that were held hostage.

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

re: #25 tzefa

If Israel would do the job right once and for all, it would never have to engage in these totally unbalanced swaps ever again.

Trying to "prove to the world" that it is not the genocidal state it is falsely accused of being has gotten Israel nothing except the contempt of those who should fear it. Stomping on scorpions with bare feet so as not to hurt the scorpions--which is what Israel's kid-gloves responses amount to--is counterproductive.

This exchange has emboldened Hezbollah and Hamas both. When the next conflict comes--as it will now sooner rather than later--Israel should respond with unchecked force.

re: #25 tzefa

Entebbe was the aberration, not the standard.

At this point I have no sympathy for Israel no matter what happens. They brought it on themselves.

re: #37 opinionated

This is where this principle leads:

Arab Leaders Celebrate Victory: 'Swap Teaches us to Kidnap More'

...Hamas terrorist leader Ismail Haniyeh encouraged more kidnappings, and another Gaza terrorist openly expressed what many in Israel already fear: Kidnapping IDF soldiers has become the most effective way to release terrorists with blood on their hands.

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

Suicide is not principle.

If today's DT is any indication, I suspect most comments are condemning this "swap" but I would say that two DEAD Israeli's are worth a hundred or more Palestinians, terrorists or not. And certainly t the families of the murdered Israelis.
Hope that the Shin Bet inserted gps chips in all of 'em before they released them, though.

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

1,000 + dings!

re: #25 tzefa

While personally I don't believe this was a good decision, I have to say that Israel as a nation has a very strong principle: "our soldiers must come home - dead or alive". We follow that principle no matter what.

There is no such "principle" in Judaism that says thousands of killers must be turned loose in order to accomplish this.

re: #35 Tzefa

By the way...

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said he was “encouraged by the prisoner swap and hoped that it was the first of many more.”

"Many more"?
Does he mean they should kidnap more israelis?

Yes.

re: #25 tzefa

I have to say that Israel as a nation has a very strong principle: "our soldiers must come home - dead or alive". We follow that principle no matter what

The problem is, Israel's adherence to that principle makes the abduction of Israeli soldiers immensely profitable to your enemies.

Just when you think Israel has sunk to the bottom, you find she has sunk even lower...

Isn't there another nuclear reactor Israel can destroy?

re: #47 realwest,

It's just the Palestinians should be DEAD as well. I'm all for releasing them. Let them walk out, breathe the air of freedom...

...then shoot them in the back. Let them die a coward's death.

In Kuntar’s home in Abey, streets were decorated with banners welcoming the return of the former member of the radical Palestine Liberation Front.

Blah, blah, ... moderate ..., blah, blah ... misunderstood ... blah, blah...

So this is what they mean when they say the terrorists to represent the people or religion and vice versa. For a second I was confused, now it's clear.

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A Hamas spokesman said the swap was a "victory for the resistance," adding: "It proves that a useful way to liberate prisoners from the jails of the occupation is to capture kill Zionist soldiers."

With a bit of luck Israeli intelligence is now tracking his movements and he will soon be meeting his allotment of virgins.

So Ban Ki is just as dumb as everyone else. What exchange- does the moron know the Israeli prisoners were dead?

re: #9 Fiery Red XIII

So Israel should give up more murderers for another body? This "trade" just encourages the slaughter of more Israelis. I wish the world would get serious about Hezbollah, but most of the world accepts killing of jews as somehow ok.

It's amazing that you can still see a glimpse of civilization in a mideast so awash in barbarism. I can't believe that the Israelis don't send him back in a coffin.

re: #45 protestshooter

Don't be so harsh on Israel. Sure they were crazy to vote for Olmert and are learning what a bad election choice means.

But we may elect Obama, and the shame on us will be even greater because we have no excuse- Israel's experience is warning us of the consequences of a bad leader.

re: #38 zulubaby

but I'm so relieved that two of the soldiers are home

I can't really take solace from that. They aren't "home"; they are dead. Murdered. And the murderers get to hand over lifeless remains in exchange for a live murderer, and then throw a party. It's an absolutely sickening spectacle. The only possibly redeeming thing I can see about is it is the possibility that it will shock the Israeli people to action.

re: #60 opinionated

Don't be so harsh on Israel. Sure they were crazy to vote for Olmert and are learning what a bad election choice means.

But we may elect Obama, and the shame on us will be even greater because we have no excuse- Israel's experience is warning us of the consequences of a bad leader.

If that happens I won't have any sympathy for us, either.

re: #50 Spiny Norman

Yes.

What an idiot- Ban-Ki seemed less stupid than Kofi when he first took over but he is now just another tool of the Muslims who control the un.

re: #9 Fiery Red XIII

Remeber, they still got an Isreali soldier...Gahlid S.

He's dead, too.

Sickening, just plain sickening. I am just hoping there is some meaning to this that I just can't seem to comprehend.

re: #60 opinionated

Don't be so harsh on Israel. Sure they were crazy to vote for Olmert and are learning what a bad election choice means.

It goes deeper than just a "bad election choice" for Israelis. They have the mentality "We survived Auschwitz, we can survive anything" without reealizing that they have the ability to get rid of a dictator like Olmert, not just suffer through him.

Meanwhile, in Germany, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said he was “encouraged by the prisoner swap and hoped that it was the first of many more.”

There should be a sign over the door to the UN:

Abandon moral backbone all ye who enter here

re: #61 Occasional Reader

I can't really take solace from that. They aren't "home"; they are dead. Murdered. And the murderers get to hand over lifeless remains in exchange for a live murderer, and then throw a party. It's an absolutely sickening spectacle. The only possibly redeeming thing I can see about is it is the possibility that it will shock the Israeli people to action.

Yes, it is utterly sickening, but it was torture not knowing where they were, what they were going through. They are going to be buried in Israel. I know that I am desperately clutching at ... nothing, but it's better than them being in Lebanon. Shock the Israeli people into doing what? Running wild in the streets? I mean, what exactly should they be doing?

re: #64 Alouette

Or will be killed as soon as a "trade" can be negotiated. And a murderer will get a hero's welcome? No shock there as muslim society applauds murder. There is no possible "reformation", Pope Benedict is sadly correct.

Meanwhile, a senior Hizbullah official has said Israel’s approval of a prisoner swap with his group was an “official admission of defeat.”

Sadly, this all too true.

re: #64 Alouette

He's dead, too.

How do you know? Maybe we'll get him back.

re: #52 neoconundrum

Isn't there another nuclear reactor Israel can destroy?

Why, yes...

re: #68 zulubaby

Shock the Israeli people into doing what?

Dropping political support for Olmert and the other appeaseniks.
Supporting Bibi or any other politician who will say, "enough".

re: #21 zombie

My opinion of the ROP just got a whole lot lower, if that was even possible.

How can anyone -- even someone severely mentally ill -- celebrate such a person?

How can an entire culture consider him a hero?

I have no idea how they can celebrate him. I do know that the fact they do means Israel needs to expand its target list in Lebanon. The people who celebrate this monster need to die large numbers to impress upon the rest of the world the undesirability of associating with vermin.

re: #70 Van Impe

Sadly, this all too true.

Oh please, who cares what a Hizbullah "official" has to say? They talk so much crap. And they talk and talk and talk ...

re: #73 Occasional Reader

Dropping political support for Olmert and the other appeaseniks.
Supporting Bibi or any other politician who will say, "enough".

Everyone, and I mean everyone, hates Olmert.

re: #66 Alouette & #60

Israel didn't actually elect Olmert and they can't get rid of him, even if they want to. Their political system doesn't work that way. Unfortunately.

re: #73 Occasional Reader

Dropping political support for Olmert and the other appeaseniks.
Supporting Bibi or any other politician who will say, "enough".

The problem with that is their parliamentary system. I don't know if there is a way to get rid of Olmert before the current parliament's term is up.

'Prisoner swap'? I don't quite see it that way, Ki-Moon-man.

The only way I would not be outraged by this is if the child killer had been returned in kind.

Otherwise it's Bizzaro World. >:(

re: #28 Sharmuta

It should have been an equal trade- coffins for coffins.

With this scum in one of them.

Carpet bomb the welcome home rally.

Strafe the funerals.

By the way, do you all notice the utter lack of curiosity on the part of the press as to the circumstances under which these IDF troopers went from being live abductees to "remains"?

Imagine - just imagine - if the situation were reversed. If the Israelis were handing over a captured terrorist who, oops, did we forget to mention, got dead somehow while in their custody. Do you think we'd see this delicate skating-around-the-issue language being used?

What sad and pathetic officials Israel has. What a miserable and degrading decision.

How incredibly stupid to allow murderers like Samir Kuntar to live and be freed.

I cannot believe Olmert and his party are still in charge of Israel.

How long can this go on?

re: #71 zulubaby

How do you know? Maybe we'll get him back.

This "deal" just gave the evidence to the animals that he is just as valuable dead as he is alive. I dont trust their kindly nature enough to think they'll let him live.

I wouldn't mind if those scumbags suddenly exploded, taking out the Hezbollah leadership in Lebanon.

I can only hope that with this ill fated move, there is a secret contained within..tracking device...etc.

re: #66 Alouette

Israel is psychologically broken. A victim of facing choices which have all lead to punishment.

They need major shock therapy. Unfortunately that therapy will come with a massive tragedy.

The question will be if they can ever recover.

re: #83 Lawrence Schmerel

How long can this go on?

Ask the head of Iran's nuclear weapons program.

re: #81 profitsbeard

Carpet bomb the welcome home rally.

Strafe the funerals.

Agreed.

A disparity of images

re: #68 zulubaby

Yes, it is utterly sickening, but it was torture not knowing where they were, what they were going through. They are going to be buried in Israel. I know that I am desperately clutching at ... nothing, but it's better than them being in Lebanon. Shock the Israeli people into doing what? Running wild in the streets? I mean, what exactly should they be doing?

They could vote for leaders who have conviction and principles.

re: #25 tzefa

This 'perspective' seems to me to be simply evidence of a failed policy lasting almost 30 years.

But I'm not Jewish, not Israeli, and have no dog in this fight.

Other than that of a semi-civilized citizen of the west aware of the ongoing battle with the forces of darkness. I don't think they'll stop with killing all the Jews. I think they might try to off my hammy behind, too.

And I do have a dog in that fight.

re: #90 Son of the Black Dog

They could vote for leaders who have conviction and principles.

They're working on getting a conviction for Olmert, but forget about the principles.

"Samir Kuntar and four other Lebanese prisoners will receive an official state welcoming when they are released by Israel."

In a Perfect World the POS would catch a sniper's bullet right in the face as soon as he emerged from the aircraft....

re: #82 Occasional Reader

Not for a second would I try to make any excuses ..., but the IDF report concluded it was almost certain that at least one of these soldiers died in the attack itself and that the other probably did too. Maybe there's some (very) small comfort in believing that they didn't have to endure captivity at the hands of these creeps.

re: #68 zulubaby

Democratic people don't need to run wild in the streets. But they need to be in the streets- if there is no other way- to show they do not quietly acquiesce when their government is destroying the Nation.

re: #71 zulubaby

That seems very naive. And even if that were possible, how many live murderers would have to be freed to accomplish that?

These swaps just encourage kidnapping and murder. What ever happened to the "I will not negotiate with terrorists" viewpoint.

re: #90 Son of the Black Dog

They could vote for leaders who have conviction and principles.

Yes, when there are elections.

re: #92 buzzsawmonkey

They're working on getting a conviction for Olmert, but forget about the principles.

touche

re: #96 SpartanWoman

That seems very naive. And even if that were possible, how many live murderers would have to be freed to accomplish that?

These swaps just encourage kidnapping and murder. What ever happened to the "I will not negotiate with terrorists" viewpoint.

I think that's the US, not Israel.

You call it naive, I call it hope.

re: #56 swassociates

With a bit of luck Israeli intelligence is now tracking his movements and he will soon be meeting his allotment of virgins.

In a sane society he'd have been fitted with tracking devices and they would wipe out his welcomers. But there is no sanity left.

re: #25 tzefa

While personally I don't believe this was a good decision, I have to say that Israel as a nation has a very strong principle: "our soldiers must come home - dead or alive". We follow that principle no matter what.

So go in and get them, damnit! They won't be any deader because you level the building where they are held, or the city block, etc.
Never reward kidnapping or terrorism.

I really wish Israel would go all Sparta on these sonsabitches*. When they send a messenger asking to arrange a trade, kill the messenger. Eventually they will get the message, and it will stop.

*Specifically the terrorists like this child-killer, of course, not the whole whinning lot of them.

I wonder what will happen to Kantar.

re: #101 nikis-knight

(Anger shown in previous post not directed in any way at tzefa, of course!)

re: #101 nikis-knight

So go in and get them, damnit! They won't be any deader because you level the building where they are held, or the city block, etc.
Never reward kidnapping or terrorism.

I really wish Israel would go all Sparta on these sonsabitches*. When they send a messenger asking to arrange a trade, kill the messenger. Eventually they will get the message, and it will stop.

*Specifically the terrorists like this child-killer, of course, not the whole whinning lot of them.

Lebanon is a big country. How many buildings should Israel have leveled in Lebanon? And in which areas?

May G-d destroy Lebanon in a hail of meteorites for this. At this point, I think everyone there, ESPECIALLY the government, deserves a slow, painful death, just like their hero did to a 4 year old.

And from there, I'm leaving this thread before I get really upset.

re: #104 zulubaby

Lebanon is a big country. How many buildings should Israel have leveled in Lebanon? And in which areas?

As many as it takes.

re: #71 zulubaby

How do you know? Maybe we'll get him back.

What incentive does Hamas have to keep him alive? They know they can kill him and still get what they want.

re: #106 Syrah

As many as it takes.

Okay, I can't stand this kind of nonsense.

There was a war with Lebanon, remember? Fine, but you don't just go bombing buildings in another country.

re: #77 Lynn B.

& #60

Israel didn't actually elect Olmert and they can't get rid of him, even if they want to. Their political system doesn't work that way. Unfortunately.

Actually they did elect Olmert by voting for Kadima, but still believed that Ariel Sharon would awake from his coma.

The Israeli political system is utterly fucked and I can't think of any way to fix it.

well, it is decision time in the middle east
does Israel destroy Hamas and Hezbollah once and for all and live in peace
or do we start rooting for the eventual winners (Hamas/Hezbollah/Fatah) and try to make nice so we're not next

so Israel, please let us know if we're wasting the billions we give you every year or not
do you want to live ?

if they don't want to survive, let's cut them off
we need an exit strategy

So far any mention of this atrocity has not used the names of Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev HY"D; just re their coffins being returned....and this is the NYC metro area.

Too angry to say more, except the word 'terrorist' is too difficult for any reporter to say.../'miltant' is easier.

As for what I wish on Olmert and his co-conspirators? [deleted].

re: #105 Kosh's Shadow

A hail of meteorites? Lebanon will sure worry about that.

re: #107 Alouette

What incentive does Hamas have to keep him alive? They know they can kill him and still get what they want.

You're right, there is no incentive. I don't believe there is incentive, but I try to keep up hope. I had hope for Regev and Goldwasser right up until I saw their coffins and even then, inside, I kept a tiny bit of hope until there was forensic evidence positively identifying them.

re: #28 Sharmuta

It should have been an equal trade- coffins for coffins.

Agree...return in like condition.

re: #107 Alouette

What incentive does Hamas have to keep him alive? They know they can kill him and still get what they want.

Hamas can't kill Shalit. They have given proof of life.

But even as he will live, many other Israelis have been sentenced to death by Israel's disgusting excuse for a Government.

Boy, did Hitler screw up. He could have easily swapped all the dead Jewish remains for his freedom, as will as freedom for Eva, Himmler, and Goerring.

/My Jewish Sarc

re: #104 zulubaby

Lebanon is a big country. How many buildings should Israel have leveled in Lebanon? And in which areas?

Lebanon is not a big country. It is about the size of Israel. Canada, now that's a big country.

re: #110 Adrenalyn

well, it is decision time in the middle east
does Israel destroy Hamas and Hezbollah once and for all and live in peace
or do we start rooting for the eventual winners (Hamas/Hezbollah/Fatah) and try to make nice so we're not next

so Israel, please let us know if we're wasting the billions we give you every year or not
do you want to live ?

if they don't want to survive, let's cut them off
we need an exit strategy

First mistake, and one I believe Israel made, is that Hizbullah are not Hamas.

The rest of your post is disgusting.

re: #108 zulubaby

Okay, I can't stand this kind of nonsense.

There was a war with Lebanon, remember? Fine, but you don't just go bombing buildings in another country.

Except if you are a muslim "militant" from Hezbollah or Hamas. Then you do it and stupid people act all shocked and saddened when your victims retaliate as they prefer to think of the assholes who cheer as somehow innocent.

You are worse than naive.