I say accusations of Christian bashing and YEC naysaying with the first 15 posts

This should settle it, cause ANYTHING involving Radical Islamists HAS to suck.

-WFH

These IDiots are making common cause with freedom's worst enemies.

Wiki David Berlinski

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Charles you should post about...........
*ducks*

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I say accusations of Christian bashing and YEC naysaying with the first 15 posts

I see your 15 and say in 13.

Hey nadadhimmi, NEW thread for ya.

This audio is breathtaking. American Creationists think that the way to advance the ball is to throw in with Islamic, superstitious primitives.
Just brilliant!

Play nice kids. Everyone learns at a different rate. Insults get flung and feelings get hurt. Don't make it personal. Don't take it personally.

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

I see your 15 and say in 13.

The guy you quoted "wrong answer" in the last thread just got whacked.

Does anybody here think it's a good idea to pattern our society from the failures of the Islamic world?

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Does anybody here think it's a good idea to pattern our society from the failures of the Islamic world?

We could learn from their mistakes.

Sorry, but when I first started reading through the post, I misread it as Institute for Historical Review*, not the Institution for Creation Research.

* IHR is a virulently anti-Semitic website that promotes revisionist history, particularly the Holocaust.

And I think I understand why. Both engage in revisionist history and bending facts and logic to suit their particular needs.

institute of creation research

Wow - the things the guys on this audio clip are saying are pure evil!

Fundamentalists in cahoots to manipulate the education systems of sovereign countries? Ya don't say! Intelligently designed birds of a feather!

This is a team that can't be beat. I can't wait til the class where they show us how the "Creator" intelligently designed the pig to (d)evolve into the Jew!

-WFH

So DI's been insanely aiding the rise of fundamentalist Islam over secularism in Turkey, which is already showing instability as a result. They sure are dimfucks if they don't understand the import of the secular military and gov't in Turkey.

re: #9 Racer X

Play nice kids. Everyone learns at a different rate. Insults get flung and feelings get hurt. Don't make it personal. Don't take it personally.

What are you trying to say?

/

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Does anybody here think it's a good idea to pattern our society from the failures of the Islamic world?

Sounds like a plan.
7th century here we come.
/

re: #12 Walter L. Newton

We should but will we? There are many among us eager to repeat their mistakes.

It's ironic that Turkish creationists emphasize "drawing on" ideas of US creationists, for whatever extra credibility that gives them, when the movement aims to discredit science and undermine secularism everywhere, including the US.

No conflict between accepting evolution and having faith according to the Catholic Church.

Damn, 20 posts. The YEC let me down

re: #19 Killgore Trout

We should but will we? There are many among us eager to repeat their mistakes.

There are and we will. I don't have faith in humans to really ever learn, at least not in large leaps. It always seems like 3 steps forward and 2 steps back.

You know, our troops are litreally fighting the forces of darkness. These cretins run over and jump in bed with them
Islamic Creationists would kill their Infidel American counterparts in a heart beat.

Okay all, gotta go say my prayers and hit the sack. oh, umm, uh, see ya all later!

Making common cause with those who would later subject you is the height of stupidity. The IRC and DI are nothing but dhimmis.

re: #21 Ojoe

No conflict between accepting evolution and having faith according to the Catholic Church.

The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.

- Thomas Aquinas

Here is what I do not get. At all. HOW can any one who believes in God and the Bible, get in league with an islamic creationist group? It cannot happen. It makes no sense to me.

re: #28 Omni

I'm pretty much sick of this creationist/ID stuff. But then again it's not my blog.

Right answer

If our society is going to resurrect bad ideas let's dig up Edward D. Wood, Jr. and have him do a remake of Manos: The Hands Of Fate. We could dig up and cast Bela Lugosi as The Master and Tor Johnson as Torgo. (Watch Tor bump into things and knock over the altar.) And of course the usual supporting cast as the usual supporting characters.

Seriously, I'm almost as sick of the Creationists as I am of the Leftists.

re: #3 MandyManners

These IDiots are ALSO freedom's worst enemies.

Any comments telling me what I should not post at LGF will be deleted.

Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, recently restated his (and Pope John Paul's) argument. As MSNBC reported, Pope Benedict has referred to the debate between creationists and supporters of evolutionary theory as an "absurdity":
"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.

Link

Thanks for being on this issue Charles, it is a dangerous one. There are some anti-freedom forces here.

As is the case with Barack Obama, you can accurately measure the character of people by those with whom they choose to associate. The people with whom this particular group of people chooses to associate are backwards zealots, so...draw your own conclusions...

I've been reading about Icelandic evolutionists. Strange world, huh?

It's interesting that these islamists couldn't ruin their education system themselves- they had to rely on American creationism to do it. Is there any aspect of our society that they won't hijack to further their own nefarious ends?

re: #38 Quintus_Arius

I've been reading about Icelandic evolutionists. Strange world, huh?

[Link: www.raunvis.hi.is...]

Scary shit indeed.

to the point where Turkey’s school system has purged the teaching of evolution in favor of creationist pseudo-science.

If you support ID being taught in public schools, don't you have concerns now after hearing this?

What will be purged next?

Good grief. They started in 1985, helping to creat the current wave of Fundies in Turkey that are turning the country to Sharia. Great work DI and Creationists.

re: #30 Crimsonfisted

Here is what I do not get. At all. HOW can any one who believes in God and the Bible, get in league with an islamic creationist group? It cannot happen. It makes no sense to me.

They're blind to what Islam is all about.

re: #30 Crimsonfisted

Here is what I do not get. At all. HOW can any one who believes in God and the Bible, get in league with an islamic creationist group? It cannot happen. It makes no sense to me.

IMHO.
Because their faith is weak, or unproven to themselves (faith is the substantiation of things unseen Heb. 11:1). Faith is proven in the spiritual realm. They have failed to do this. They seek to prove their faith in the physical world. They are so desperate they will seek any approval of their faith. It also helps explain the vitriol when they think that (weak) faith is being questioned.

I'm sans sound system at the moment....maybe for a while.
Is the guy written about from post #4 a fundamentalist Christian?
It sounds like he's a ''secular, agnostic Jew.''
Which fundamentalist Christian group is involved and a link to it please, since I can't use the sound.
Thanks.

And they continue now, not learning from the lesson of the Mujahadeen groups slipping the leash in Pakistan and Afghanistan to become the worst terror groups of our times. What IDiots.

re: #30 Crimsonfisted

Here is what I do not get. At all. HOW can any one who believes in God and the Bible, get in league with an islamic creationist group? It cannot happen. It makes no sense to me.

Boy, there's a great question.

ICR Mean Gene

re: #20 abolitionist

It's ironic that Turkish creationists emphasize "drawing on" ideas of US creationists, for whatever extra credibility that gives them, when the movement aims to discredit science and undermine secularism everywhere, including the US.

Taner Edis discusses the reasoning behind the Turkish creationists use of Western creationist literature in this excerpt:

The arguments presented both in the conferences and the books are very similar to ICR´s; indeed, ICR remains the most important source of material for Turkish creationists. Popular Muslim apologists often present examples of intricacies or harmony in nature and suggest that it is obvious to anyone paying attention that these indicate supernatural design. This is a traditional approach that partly derives from Muslim scriptures: although the Qur´an does not often attempt to support its claims through natural theology, it speaks of God’s manifesting "signs" in nature that we may be convinced. Observing the awesome and orderly aspects of nature — the heavens and the stability of the earth, lightning and rain, useful plants and fruits, and so on — prompts common sense to conclude that all this must be designed for a purpose (13 Ar-Rad 2, 3; 30 Ar-Rum 20-27). However, in a changing society in which people are exposed to the mass media and impressed with the products of modern science, a simple appeal to teleological intuitions is no longer sufficient. For Muslim creationists, ICR´s ostensibly nonbiblical arguments supply a scientific veneer while retaining the commonsense thrust vital for an effective media message.

re: #45 mean Gene

I'm sans sound system at the moment....maybe for a while.
Is the guy written about from post #4 a fundamentalist Christian?
It sounds like he's a ''secular, agnostic Jew.''
Which fundamentalist Christian group is involved and a link to it please, since I can't use the sound.
Thanks.

I linked to David Berlinski in #4

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

If the DI people don't know what Harun Yahya is all about, they're not watching the videos:
Quran leads the way to science by Harun Yahya
[Link: au.truveo.com...]

They're dealing with the very devil himself in order to force their beliefs down our throats.

re: #42 Thanos

Good grief. They started in 1985, helping to creat the current wave of Fundies in Turkey that are turning the country to Sharia. Great work DI and Creationists.

ICR was in Turkey way back in the 70's looking for Noah's Ark. They have had a relationship with Islamic Creationists for quite some time.

re: #4 Walter L. Newton

Wiki David Berlinski

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I like this part - "Berlinski, along with fellow Discovery Institute associates Michael Behe and William A. Dembski, tutored Ann Coulter on science and evolution for her book Godless: The Church of Liberalism.[7] Approximately one-third of the book is devoted to polemical attacks on evolution, which Coulter, as Berlinski often does, terms "Darwinism" "

re: #53 gman

ICR was in Turkey way back in the 70's looking for Noah's Ark. They have had a relationship with Islamic Creationists for quite some time.

I already saw Noah's Ark. It was at an amusement park in North Jersey (is that two vague a joke).

9th century "academic freedom" courtesy of of Islam......

Al-Ghazali

He is considered a pioneer of the methods of doubt and skepticism,[5] and in one of his major works, The Incoherence of the Philosophers, he changed the course of early Islamic philosophy, shifting it away from the influence of ancient Greek and Hellenistic philosophy, and towards cause-and-effect that were determined by God or intermediate angels.

Why do modern fundamentalists want to drag us into the same hell hole?

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

I already saw Noah's Ark. It was at an amusement park in North Jersey (is that two vague a joke).

TOO not TWO

re: #36 Ojoe

I didn't have a problem with what the Pope said, but I am not sure if I am missing something?

re: #44 jcm

I'm outta here for tonight
*high-five*

If you see goddess, give her a hug for me, please

re: #56 Killgore Trout

9th century "academic freedom" courtesy of of Islam......

Al-Ghazali

Why do modern fundamentalists want to drag us into the same hell hole?

Keyword "fundamentalists."

re: #48 Thanos

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

So, he's not a leader of the institute.....just one of it's members.
I'm still not finding churches that are really known churches involved in this.
Everything is either a church that you can't find on land....only on the web OR like this guy, not even a Christian but rather an agnostic Jew.

And we've already seen how creepy those Holocaust-denying so-called rabbis who visited Iran are.
I'm just looking for tie ins to real churches in America.

re: #59 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm outta here for tonight
*high-five*

If you see goddess, give her a hug for me, please

Take care!
*high five*

re: #30 Crimsonfisted

I bet there's some overlap with the the ones who thought we "deserved" 9/11.

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

Agreed. I find it ironic that fundamentalism is the highway to hell.

re: #54 JamesWI

I like this part - "Berlinski, along with fellow Discovery Institute associates Michael Behe and William A. Dembski, tutored Ann Coulter on science and evolution for her book Godless: The Church of Liberalism.[7] Approximately one-third of the book is devoted to polemical attacks on evolution, which Coulter, as Berlinski often does, terms "Darwinism" "

Oh good grief. Good thing I didn't read her book -- there'd be scuff marks on the wall from where I'd thrown it.

Aljazeera Covers the Grand Opening of the Creation Museum

"...That Turkey might have an interest in learning about American Creationism is not surprising. Turkey, as it turns out, has a vibrant Islamic Creationism movement, fueled in part by the recent success of the book Atlas of Creation, written by Harun Yahya.
Yahya's argument points to Darwinism as the root cause of Islamic terrorism, a claim sure to draw interest from Americans. Public opinion polls in Muslim countries show that belief in evolution is lowest in Turkey. Muslim Creationism seems to be more concerned over the fact of divine creation than the particular mechanism involved.
All the discussion in the United States over the age of the Earth, for instance, amuses Alami.
"We don't care if the Earth is 6,000 years old, or is billions of years old. What matters," he concluded. "Is that God created it all in the beginning. That is what is important."
Alami's Palestinian born cameraman joined the discussion, eager to add his views.
"Did you see in the Answers in Genesis press conference where they ran the video with all the different names that God goes by ? Did you see them include the name Allah ? No, they did not. Why is that ? Why do they not recognize Allah as a name for God ?"

[Link: www.christianfaithandreason.com...]

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I find it ironic that fundamentalism is the highway to hell.

Song title, yea.

Turkey is an officially secular state and enjoys fairly civil relations with Israel - some islamist state! Hardly a nefarious conspiracy of Christian so-called fundamentalists uniting with radical islamists. This is slipping into demagoguery. Shall we then list all the nasty governments of the world that mandate teaching Darwinism? Silly.

re: #51 jaunte

If the DI people don't know what Harun Yahya is all about, they're not watching the videos:
Quran leads the way to science by Harun Yahya
[Link: au.truveo.com...]

No wonder Sharia courts won't use DNA in rape cases then.
I'm still amazed that there are bee sting specialists in Muslim medicine. They sting people as if it is a cure for stuff.

I think they also tout camel urine for hair loss.
Yuech!

re: #61 mean Gene

So, he's not a leader of the institute.....just one of it's members.

No. Berlinski is a "Senior Fellow," and one of the most visible advocates of the Discovery Institute's agenda. His articles have appeared at many major conservative web sites, including the National Review.

The Discovery Institute is not a small operation -- it has huge funding, and is very well-organized. This is not a fringe group.

re: #66 jaunte

Heh.

re: #44 jcm

IMHO.
Because their faith is weak, or unproven to themselves (faith is the substantiation of things unseen Heb. 11:1). Faith is proven in the spiritual realm. They have failed to do this. They seek to prove their faith in the physical world. They are so desperate they will seek any approval of their faith. It also helps explain the vitriol when they think that (weak) faith is being questioned.

I agree with you completely. I'm not sure if they're trying to use science to prove their faith to themselves or to others (perhaps both) but, imo what they are really doing with this attempt to scientifically prove their faith is to strip it of it's spirituality. Perhaps they think they can use science to prove their faith in order to convert others to their faith, but in the process what they're really doing is not focusing on the true message of Jesus and rather they're stripping faith of wonder.

re: #68 dormain

dormain

Christian, Canadian, conservative.

Registered since: Jul 1, 2007 at 5:32 pm
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

"Yahya's argument points to Darwinism as the root cause of Islamic terrorism"

Good, I'm glad he solved all that. Now I can sleep at night.

(terrorism is a direct result of global warming)

re: #68 dormain

Turkey is an officially secular state and enjoys fairly civil relations with Israel - some islamist state! Hardly a nefarious conspiracy of Christian so-called fundamentalists uniting with radical islamists. This is slipping into demagoguery. Shall we then list all the nasty governments of the world that mandate teaching Darwinism? Silly.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

re: #70 Charles

Thanks for that Charles, I had read close to that at Wikipedia.
As to funding, do you have a list?
A link to a list, I mean.

re: #70 Charles

No. Berlinski is a "Senior Fellow," and one of the most visible advocates of the Discovery Institute's agenda. His articles have appeared at many major conservative web sites, including the National Review.

The Discovery Institute is not a small operation -- it has huge funding, and is very well-organized. This is not a fringe group.

I'm seeing traces of really odd sources too.

- Ahmanson, Chalcedon, etc.
- Gazprom
- Harun Yahya

In a way the Disco crowd is like Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran and other paleocons: the latter are so consumed by their anti-semitism that they blind themselves to the infinitely greater threat posed by Islam. So too, I'm saddened to say are the former: they are so obsessed with their agenda, they will make common cause with those who would obliterate all of us.

If this is not a definition of madness, then nothing is.

re: #53 gman

ICR was in Turkey way back in the 70's looking for Noah's Ark. They have had a relationship with Islamic Creationists for quite some time.

Oooops!
forgot the link for that

re: #76 mean Gene

Hey! I art directed that book jacket -- "Mean Gene".

re: #68 dormain

Turkey was a strong Secular ally -- when the Kemalists were in control. If you haven't noticed lately the Fundies have taken control, and their influence was in action in 2003 when they managed to halt the 4TH ID from entering Iraq from the North via Turkey.

First, God created idiots. That was just for practice. Then He created school boards. - Mark Twain

re: #79 gman

Oooops!
forgot the link for that

OMG!
Someone else tried to tell me about that website above and I looked up computer users' acronyms!
ICR only meant "I can't recall," to me!
Now I get it!
Thanks.
LOL at me!
I am so uncomputer.

You guys sure are troopers. Me, I think I'll wait for new thread. Have fun, and be nice. ;)

re: #66 jaunte

A conversation between Harun Yahya and Ben Stein would be interesting.

re: #85 HelloDare

A conversation between Harun Yahya and Ben Stein would be interesting.

Two men enter. One man leaves.

Where's baconeatingkaffir?

re: #75 MandyManners

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Shit, Mandy, I'm impressed!

It is truly amazing just how similar the Discos and their acolytes anti-science, anti-reason project is to those of the postmodernist left. The alternate, anti-factual biological history they fabricate parallel such bogus human histories such as Afrocentrism and the matriarchal paradise floated by radical feminism, just to name a couple. The sleazy tactics are similar as well.

re: #89 neocon hippie

It is truly amazing just how similar the Discos and their acolytes anti-science, anti-reason project is to those of the postmodernist left. The alternate, anti-factual biological history they fabricate parallel such bogus human histories such as Afrocentrism and the matriarchal paradise floated by radical feminism, just to name a couple. The sleazy tactics are similar as well.

Right on. What he said.

re: #85 HelloDare

A conversation between Harun Yahya and Ben Stein would be interesting.

Actually, they could agree with each since the grand mufti of Palestine was heavily influenced by Hitler.

re: #36 Ojoe

Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, recently restated his (and Pope John Paul's) argument. As MSNBC reported, Pope Benedict has referred to the debate between creationists and supporters of evolutionary theory as an "absurdity":
"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.

Link

Thanks for being on this issue Charles, it is a dangerous one. There are some anti-freedom forces here.

A question, Ojoe. Do you have a problem with the Pope (JP II) kissing the Koran?

Harun Yahya has some powerful friends in the Turkish government.

In August 2007 popular blogging platform wordpress.com was completely blocked by Turkish Telecom on the ground that a number of "defamation" blogs allegedly made "slanderous" remarks against Harun Yahya. This was also a court order. Harun Yahya, is the spiritual head of a vast Islamic apologist outfit in Turkey, which has reached Islamic publishers in London, Canada and the US. Though Harun Yahya is described by many as a "charlatan", he has made inroads with Muslims all the way from Indonesia to America. His books cover topics including refutations of atheism and Darwinism, romanticism as a weapon of Satan, anti-evolution pseudo-science, affirmation of miracles, and attacks on Freemasons, Zionism, Buddhism, and terrorism (Darwin's fault). Since around 1998, Harun Yahya's operations have focused emphatically on promoting Islamic creationism. Recently, his operations sent a glossy 770 page book about creationism to European and US scientists. This creationist movement has allied itself with the American creationists. In fact, in 2005, American taxpayers had to pay for a Turkish non-scientist creationist speaker who was allied with BAV to come and enter the debate on evolution in Kansas.

Majority of web sites that target unscientific claims made by BAV, particularly the web sites promoting free thinking, atheism and views against Islam, do not have sufficient resources nor influential power to create publicity for removing the Turkish Telecom ban. We believe in our cause. We will never be intimidated. We will never stop to enlighten our people. But we are realists also. We know and accept our limitations and capabilities. We also realize that European and American atheist and freethinking organizations do not have the same kind of problems we have, and in spite of their good intensions it would be almost impossible for them to help us in going through difficult times such as this one.

[Link: www.rationalresponders.com...]

re: #93 jaunte

Did you get my email reply?

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

Yes I did, thanks again!

re: #91 HelloDare

Apparently the common thread is 'Darwin caused terrorism.'

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Does anybody here think it's a good idea to pattern our society from the failures of the Islamic world?

I dunno... 4 wives? What could possibly go wrong?

re: #96 jaunte

Apparently the common thread is 'Darwin caused terrorism.'

Silly me- I thought it was the koran.

re: #97 experiencedtraveller

I dunno... 4 wives? What could possibly go wrong?

Ha, been there done that (not at the same time). Any questions?

re: #42 Thanos

Good grief. They started in 1985, helping to creat the current wave of Fundies in Turkey that are turning the country to Sharia. Great work DI and Creationists.

What I found most interesting was the assertion that the Turkish military -- which is generally very secular and anti-Islamist -- started promoting Creationism with the intention of countering leftist (read: Soviet) influence. Which, if true, makes me gloomily suspect that back in the day, the U.S. gummint was happy to see Turkey becoming less secular, since everyone knew that the Soviets were a much bigger threat than the Islamists.

re: #5 jcm

Charles you should post about...........
*ducks*

Viaduct? I dunno vy a duck.

(A classic text of Marxism.)

re: #97 experiencedtraveller

I dunno... 4 wives? What could possibly go wrong?

4 mothers-in-law

re: #79 gman

From your link,

The most important aspect of ICR that will not change is its commitment to Scripture-inerrant and authoritative in all areas. I feel very strongly that a Christian must fully submit to Scripture, basing each decision on its teachings.

Sounds like Islam.

re: #92 A Kiwi Infidel

A question, Ojoe. Do you have a problem with the Pope (JP II) kissing the Koran?

Can't answer for Ojoe, but I did.

re: #98 Sharmuta

All that talk of a 'Cambrian explosion' just sets some people off.

Here we go again.

Any comments telling me what I should not post at LGF will be deleted.

Shooting gallery.

That's right -- the Institute for Creation Research has been heavily involved in Turkey for more than 20 years.

re: #9 Racer X

Play nice kids. Everyone learns at a different rate. Insults get flung and feelings get hurt. Don't make it personal. Don't take it personally.

As I start reading the comments so far in this thread, I have the same feeling. We're all at different ages, levels of education, different faiths, and so forth. I'm 49 now, and when I think of where I was politically ten years ago, I want to go back in time and slap myself. I've also learned a great deal about a number of subjects I probably wouldn't have explored as obsessively, if it weren't for the internet.

Ok, now let's have a good old English knife-fight! :)

thanks

re: #88 A Kiwi Infidel

Shit, Mandy, I'm impressed!

Thanks!

Charles, while I believe evolution and think DI's choice to push Intelligent Design is the wrong one (though I agree with their overall a-materialist message), this post is a little over the top and neglects the context in which these alliances were formed.

The audio clips you post themselves recognize that the ICR's link with Turkey was formed in the 80s, when Turkey's government was trying to battle communist influence. Cynically, the reporter alludes to Turkey's "military" government, but it was pretty clear who the bad guys were in that scenario. Arguing that they are "in bed" with radical Islam is like saying the U.S. was for funding the mujahadeen in Afghanistan in their battle against the soviets.

I cannot similarly excuse DI's continued alliance with turkish muslims, but lets keep in mind that Islam is not ipso facto evil. It is the violent acts and deterioration of freedoms that are carried out in Islam's name that are evil.

re: #110 garycooper

I'm out. But a slap fest?, maybe. And if Mandy and the Goddess are in, I'm all for a mud wrestle, but knives? No, sorry.

Apologies if this has already been posted, but did everyone see this link by aldaily.com to Prospect Magazine about the top public intellectuals in the world?

Prospect last ran its intellectuals poll in November 2005. The positions of people who appeared in the 2005 poll are given in brackets. New entries are marked with an asterisk. You can discuss the poll at First Drafts, Prospect 's blog.

1 Fethullah Gülen (*)
2 Muhammad Yunus (*)
3 Yusuf Al-Qaradawi (56)
4 Orhan Pamuk (54)
5 Aitzaz Ahsan (*)
6 Amr Khaled (*)
7 Abdolkarim Soroush (15)
8 Tariq Ramadan (58)
9 Mahmood Mamdani (*)
10 Shirin Ebadi (12)
11 Noam Chomsky (1)
12 Al Gore (*)
13 Bernard Lewis (34)
14 Umberto Eco (2)
15 Ayaan Hirsi Ali
16 Amartya Sen (8)
17 Fareed Zakaria (35)
18 Garry Kasparov (*)
19 Richard Dawkins (3)
20 Mario Vargas Llosa (29)

The magazine explains how a Turkish sufi got the number 1 spot:

The truth turned out to be more interesting. On 1st May, Zaman—the highest-selling newspaper in Turkey, with a circulation of over 700,000 and a string of international editions—ran a story on its front page alerting its readership to the appearance of Gülen on the Prospect/FP list, and to the fact that we were inviting people to vote. Zaman is known to be close to the Gülen movement, and over the coming weeks the paper made regular reference to the cleric’s appearance on our list. The poll was also noted in other Turkish newspapers, as well as on every single Gülen website, official and unofficial, we were able to find.

Moral of the story is that we really need to stay on our toes. Inroads are being made everywhere and, no matter where one looks, life is constantly a fight against Islamists now. LGF, of course, is on the front lines but they've got tens and tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) organized, funded and seriously determined.

re: #113 drv208

Um- have you read the koran?

This looked interesting:

The May meeting is part of a growing battle for the hearts and minds of Turkey's youth. In fact, conference organizer Mustafa Akyol told ISN Security Watch, in Turkey the creationism-evolution debate is more extensive than it is anywhere in the world.

Akyol is also a member of the Journalists and Writers Foundation, established by Fethullah Gulen, leader of a wealthy Islamic sect that bears his name, the Gulen Movement. Gulen lives in self-imposed exile after fleeing charges of subverting the state, or more specifically, of attempting to "undermine secularism" in Turkey. After long trial, he was acquitted in 2006 but the case has since been reopened, despite the fact that he is said to actually be in the good graces of the current government.

I wonder if the money flow is coming from Gulen?

re: #113 drv208

lets keep in mind that Islam is not ipso facto evil

Are you nuts? Of course it's evil. It is pure evil.

re: #53 gman

ICR was in Turkey way back in the 70's looking for Noah's Ark. They have had a relationship with Islamic Creationists for quite some time.

Were they involved with the production of Sun International's In Search Of Noah's Ark perchance?

re: #69 mean Gene

No wonder Sharia courts won't use DNA in rape cases then.
I'm still amazed that there are bee sting specialists in Muslim medicine. They sting people as if it is a cure for stuff.

I think they also tout camel urine for hair loss.
Yuech!

Well, depending on what the ailment is, it can be at least helpful and scientific studies are being done to explore why and what else the therapy can be used for.
Of course this doesn't necessarily provide a blanket of legitimacy to what muslim medicine does.

I was just thinking about all this Creationism vs Evolution crap, I bet that Barbecued Tranasourous Rex Ribs would taste Fricken awesome, especially with some Famous Dave's BBQ sauce. In fact we should breed them for a food source if we can find one of those damned mosquitoes .

re: #117 gman

That's really interesting, especially in light of Irene's post.

Found an interesting free-speech site here, while looking for Harun Yahya stories. It gives a better idea of how conservative the country is.

"A Turkish court is to hear the case against writer Atilla Yayla, charged with insulting the memory of the founder of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. He is accused of flouting one of several laws that limits freedom of expression for intellectuals in Turkey.

Professor Yayla was charged with “insulting Ataturk” - the revered founder of modern Turkey - after appearing on a panel discussion in which he suggested the early Turkish Republic was not as progressive as it’s painted. The prosecutor in the case is asking for a five-year prison sentence."

[Link: www.pulpmovies.com...]

re: #85 HelloDare

A conversation between Harun Yahya and Ben Stein would be interesting.

It would be an interesting example of humbuggery, as they smiled at each other and agreed to disagree about tiny theological trifles such as whether it was Moses or Muhammad who delivered an authentic revelation from God, so that they could cooperate on the vital task of FIGHTING THE DREAD DRAGON SEK-U-LOR!

To put it another way, I am 100% certain that Ben Stein is the kind of man who would suck Harun Yahya's dick if Yahya would publicly say that the Koran supports the Torah's ban on homosexuality. (And vice versa.)

Ecumenism is a beautiful thing.

re: #121 Egfrow

I was just thinking about all this Creationism vs Evolution crap, I bet that Barbecued Tranasourous Rex Ribs would taste Fricken awesome, especially with some Famous Dave's BBQ sauce. In fact we should breed them for a food source if we can find one of those damned mosquitoes .

Let's just try Tyrannosaurus . Finding a Trannysourous would involve hunting in the streets of San Fran. I'm Not up for that and would be illegal I guess. .

re: #119 Dar ul Harb

Were they involved with the production of Sun International's In Search Of Noah's Ark perchance?

According to this ICR article, they were consulted but did not produce the film.

The film was produced by Sun Classic Pictures.

re: #100 Throbert McGee

What I found most interesting was the assertion that the Turkish military -- which is generally very secular and anti-Islamist -- started promoting Creationism with the intention of countering leftist (read: Soviet) influence. Which, if true, makes me gloomily suspect that back in the day, the U.S. gummint was happy to see Turkey becoming less secular, since everyone knew that the Soviets were a much bigger threat than the Islamists.

Yes, and Reagan's "People of the Book" initiative as well. Every solution creates new problems, we manage to muddle through.

For those who are of no religious belief and do not believ in a Creator and, therefore, by definition an antithesis, the enemy ie satan, you may skip this lesson.

The ecumenical movement seeks to bring all religions together so that peace and harmony may replace war and strife. The "secret" to this endeavour is to find common ground. This is called the Hegelian Dialectic. By finding common ground, and strengthening those bonds, the next step is to eliminate the differences. This is all a work of stan, of course, because ultimately you reach a point where those who have fundamental beliefs, ie, that Christ is the Saviour and the Son of God, WILL NOT compromise. These peoples are called unteachable bigots and are destined for "corrective training". I say this tongue in cheek, of course..........except history tells me that this is true but that the "corrective training means elimination.

re: #126 evilrightwingnut

Registered since: Feb 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm
No. of comments posted: 1

Thanks for all your stellar contributions.

re: #126 evilrightwingnut

Wake up.

re: #126 evilrightwingnut

Ass

re: #115 Irene NYC

strange coincidence. I had no idea you posted on Gulen before I posted.

I have a feeling Gulen is a big time player.

PIMF this.

re: #113 drv208

I cannot similarly excuse DI's continued alliance with turkish muslims, but lets keep in mind that Islam is not ipso facto evil. It is the violent acts and deterioration of freedoms that are carried out in Islam's name that are evil.

Cough, sput, say what?

re: #125 Egfrow

You could increase your chances by searching the West Village and Chelsea.

re: #130 Sharmuta

Registered since: Feb 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm
No. of comments posted: 1

Thanks for all your stellar contributions.

hahaha

re: #126 evilrightwingnut

Yawn.

Are we keeping you up?

Wow, dinged down.....this is a hostile crowd!

re: #114 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm out. But a slap fest?, maybe. And if Mandy and the Goddess are in, I'm all for a mud wrestle, but knives? No, sorry.

Well, the mud-wrestling sounds like it could be fun. I haven't seen the glint of steel in the moonlight, thus far. Might be a quieter thread than the last one on this topic.

The English coal-miners used to have this form of fighting, where the two combatants would both have the ends of a scarf or hankie in their mouths, and then they would proceed to kick each other's shins bloody with their workboots. The first one to let go of the cloth was the loser. OUCH! Would you be up for something like that? :O

re: #132 nigella

Gotta love bugeyes Pelosi telling anyone they're a total failure.
Look up definition of chutzpah and there she is.

re: #126 evilrightwingnut

Yawn.

May I suggest the history of elevators.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Thanks jcw46, thought for a moment Iwould have to resign from LGF

re: #134 gman

strange coincidence. I had no idea you posted on Gulen before I posted.

I have a feeling Gulen is a big time player.

Yeah, worldwide following. Our stellar MSM does such a good job reporting on what's happening out there.

*sigh*

re: #130 Sharmuta

Registered since: Feb 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm
No. of comments posted: 1

Thanks for all your stellar contributions.

Hmm...he might be a plant!

re: #113 drv208

This will help you out, it's Robert Spencer's Islam 101.
You really, REALLY need to read this.

re: #132 nigella

Charles, I know discussions and different opinions are good, this Intelligent design thing is beginning to give me headaches! We all have different ideas regarding thsi, so lets just accept that we will never all agree. I'm more interested right now in things like Obama's rock star tour of Iraq with all the MSM following him to record his "holy" word.Also Nancy Pelosi's remark that Bush failed at everything he ever did.Sorry if this is off topic, but I believe it is important. Oh, and before you all attack, remember I am your friend......She ducks for cover.........

Are you okay with Muslim fundamentalists getting a foothold in our kids' classrooms?

re: #140 nigella

Wow, dinged down.....this is a hostile crowd!

Some of us realize how dangerous this is.

re: #143 Walter L. Newton

May I suggest the history of elevators.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The second installment of Douglas Adams' famed five-part trilogy.
Picking up where The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy leaves off, Douglas Adams continues the adventures of Arthur Dent, Zaphod Beeblebrox and a morose little robot named Marvin in this, the second installment of his five-part “trilogy." Set in a science fiction fan’s dreamland of anxiety-ridden psychic elevators, diurnal anomalies and moderately edible towels, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe follows Arthur, Zaphod, Ford Prefect and Trillian on their continued journey through space and time and a persnickety little conundrum known as the Ultimate Question of Life

I watched all the hysterical press on Obama today, and got worried. The media has really drunk the Kool-aid, and are blithering idiots. How's this for a cartoon:

Obama with braces on his teeth wearing a name tag that says: Freshman. He's saying: I'm hear to apply for the Job of university president.

re: #140 nigella

Wow, dinged down.....this is a hostile crowd!

I'm not hostile- I just fell you posted a more nuanced version of "post on other topics, not this one".

Here's an example of the left hand perhaps not knowing what the right hand is doing at the Discovery Institute.

The blog: Letters from the Capitol is linked in their "Discovery blogs" section, and they have this post up:

Islam's Rising Assault Upon Free Speech Especially note the blogs on the side bar. LGF practically right next to the Discovery Institute!

I don't know what this means, I just thought it was interesting.

I noticed that a few of the Discovery blogs allow comments, but the Intelligent Design and Anti-evolution ones don't.

re: #125 Egfrow

Let's just try Tyrannosaurus . Finding a Trannysourous would involve hunting in the streets of San Fran. I'm Not up for that and would be illegal I guess. .

Google Image search results for "trannysaurus."

(Safe for work, don't worry.)

re: #152 Sharmuta

Err- I felt. PIMF

re: #150 jcm

The second installment of Douglas Adams' famed five-part trilogy.
Picking up where The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy leaves off, Douglas Adams continues the adventures of Arthur Dent, Zaphod Beeblebrox and a morose little robot named Marvin in this, the second installment of his five-part “trilogy." Set in a science fiction fan’s dreamland of anxiety-ridden psychic elevators, diurnal anomalies and moderately edible towels, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe follows Arthur, Zaphod, Ford Prefect and Trillian on their continued journey through space and time and a persnickety little conundrum known as the Ultimate Question of Life

Do you remember the Infocom text adventure game version of this series (well, the early books). I could never get any further than the finnicky door, who would never let me past itself.

re: #141 garycooper

Well, the mud-wrestling sounds like it could be fun. I haven't seen the glint of steel in the moonlight, thus far. Might be a quieter thread than the last one on this topic.

The English coal-miners used to have this form of fighting, where the two combatants would both have the ends of a scarf or hankie in their mouths, and then they would proceed to kick each other's shins bloody with their workboots. The first one to let go of the cloth was the loser. OUCH! Would you be up for something like that? :O

I, sir, have had a total knee replacement, and I have, on the absolute order from my surgeon, been banned from any sport/combat that may undo his work.

{leans back smuggly, with hands behind head, smiling}

This is a union made in hell - and no good can come from it.

Mandy you should know that I am no fan of fundamentalist Muslims! Didn't get a chance to read all the posts so I assumed this was another Intelligent design fight. I'm just more into making sure Barack"Husein" Obama isn't our next POTUS.He would surely not be good when it comes to cracking down on the very thing you are worried about. I don't care how many times he denies it, but he does have deep roots in Islam.If that wasn't bad enough he belongs to the Militant wing of the Black movement. Let's defeat him!

Why don't we see anything in the MSM about DI and their shenanigans?
They're usually pretty good about beating the drums on anything that hints of religious conservatism. Especially some outfit that is leading the way on introducing anything tinged by religion taught in school.

re: #154 Throbert McGee

Google Image search results for "trannysaurus."

(Safe for work, don't worry.)

Don't forget the dreaded Allah-saurus

re: #159 nigella

Mandy you should know that I am no fan of fundamentalist Muslims! Didn't get a chance to read all the posts so I assumed this was another Intelligent design fight. I'm just more into making sure Barack"Husein" Obama isn't our next POTUS.He would surely not be good when it comes to cracking down on the very thing you are worried about. I don't care how many times he denies it, but he does have deep roots in Islam.If that wasn't bad enough he belongs to the Militant wing of the Black movement. Let's defeat him!

ID could do an enormous amount of damage to our nation that will take hundreds of years to undo.

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Do you remember the Infocom text adventure game version of this series (well, the early books). I could never get any further than the finnicky door, who would never let me past itself.

I vaguely recall the games, but never played.

re: #160 jcw46

Why don't we see anything in the MSM about DI and their shenanigans?
They're usually pretty good about beating the drums on anything that hints of religious conservatism. Especially some outfit that is leading the way on introducing anything tinged by religion taught in school.

I suspect because it's too complex for them.

11 Noam Chomsky (1)
12 Al Gore (*)

and i suppose they make the list since they are fighting the good fight on the enemies home front, ie. pushing their own flavor of idiotarian shuck an give on the easily distracted westerners.

re: #146 garycooper

Hmm...he might be a plant!

a sleeper is my guess. Probably got a phone call 10 minutes ago.

"Iguana Banana Salami"

went into Manchurian Candidate Mode and the rest is history.

re: #159 nigella

There were threads earlier today on obama, this is a thread about ID advocates being in bed with islamist fundamentalists.

Any comments telling me what I should not post at LGF will be deleted.

re: #118 MandyManners

Are you nuts? Of course it's evil. It is pure evil.

Let us say, rather, that Islam propounds a belief system that is at variance with the entire civilized world, a belief system that not only justifies but also encourages that the devout Mohammdan to either convert, subjugate or kill all those who do not submit themselves to the will of their god Allah.

That being said, it must be destroyed.

re: #151 DistantThunder

I watched all the hysterical press on Obama today, and got worried. The media has really drunk the Kool-aid, and are blithering idiots. How's this for a cartoon:

Obama with braces on his teeth wearing a name tag that says: Freshman. He's saying: I'm hear to apply for the Job of university president.

/Heh
I saw Obama at our high school in may..I mean really..a hole in the wall high school and your kid has tiks..you can't beat that..
The guy gave a great speech..Of course he can't win indiana..but beware..he is coming off like a rock star and McCain needs to step up to the plate..
My fav part? all the friggin secret service descending on our town..we were driving around going..look..another sniper!
it was pretty cool...

re: #162 MandyManners

ID could do an enormous amount of damage to our nation that will take hundreds of years to undo.

you mean like the current crop of liberal college professors is already doing?

re: #147 A Kiwi Infidel

READ IT!

The Discovery Institute is not a small operation -- it has huge funding, and is very well-organized. This is not a fringe group.

And understand, Discovery Institute IS an "entrenched orthodoxy", that we were warned against in "Advent of Divine Justice"

Mandy, I have made no statements supporting Intelligent design. Guess I should chill from here as it looks a little hot for me. I do however believe we should also concentrate on defeating Obama.He is a strong proponent of the fairness doctrine. If he's elected there is a good chance blogs like LGF would cease to exist. Something to think about!

re: #148 MandyManners

Are you okay with Muslim fundamentalists getting a foothold in our kids' classrooms?

I have just had to sit up and slap myself, (without your help, Mandy) as the penny dropped.
I dont think I have advocated that Creationism should be taught, whether theory or science, in the classroom. I have be a defender of creationism as it relates to my faith. I believe it, in FAITH.

However, suddenly in one post (as above) I see stan's little plan. The discovery Institute is doing islams dirty work. Get into the science class and then islam follows.

I agree that ID/creationism must be kept out of school curricula.

re: #171 shotgun

you mean like the current crop of liberal college professors is already doing?

The solution to leftist indoctrination is not creationist indoctrination.

re: #157 A Kiwi Infidel

I, sir, have had a total knee replacement, and I have, on the absolute order from my surgeon, been banned from any sport/combat that may undo his work.

{leans back smuggly, with hands behind head, smiling}

And I still have a few neurons left, firing randomly, so I don't think I'll be joining in the "fun." We'll just watch from over here, thanks!

Congrats on the new knee! My Dad had it done a few years ago, and it added years to his life, I'm positive. He's like a new man.

re: #172 Carridine

READ IT!

And understand, Discovery Institute IS an "entrenched orthodoxy", that we were warned against in "Advent of Divine Justice"

I think I may have already just got the point, do you agree?

re: #173 nigella

And again- there were threads concerning obama earlier today.

re: #172 Carridine

see #174

re: #170 HoosierHoops

/Heh
I saw Obama at our high school in may..I mean really..a hole in the wall high school and your kid has tiks..you can't beat that..
The guy gave a great speech..Of course he can't win indiana..but beware..he is coming off like a rock star and McCain needs to step up to the plate..
My fav part? all the friggin secret service descending on our town..we were driving around going..look..another sniper!
it was pretty cool...

If h is speech was great then it was either platitudes or rip off of conservative principles because the man is a political monster. Our country will be in mortal danger with this man at the helm - God help us.

re: #175 Sharmuta

Also, leftist indoctrination fails if the parents have done a reasonable job before their children get to college.

re: #173 nigella

Mandy, I have made no statements supporting Intelligent design. Guess I should chill from here as it looks a little hot for me. I do however believe we should also concentrate on defeating Obama.He is a strong proponent of the fairness doctrine. If he's elected there is a good chance blogs like LGF would cease to exist. Something to think about!

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THE INTERNETS.

/

#166 gman 7/17/08 8:15:04

re: #146 garycooper

Hmm...he might be a plant!

a sleeper is my guess. Probably got a phone call 10 minutes ago.

"Iguana Banana Salami"

went into Manchurian Candidate Mode and the rest is history.

Afghanistan Banana-stand indeed...

re: #181 jaunte

Also, leftist indoctrination fails if the parents have done a reasonable job before their children get to college.

Agreed, my own kids are proof they cannot be indoctrinated by leftist agenda, even in NZ.

Although the left would argue that it is "I" who have indoctrinated them.

Lots of hate mail coming in tonight. Creationists REALLY don't like this one.

re: #171 shotgun

you mean like the current crop of liberal college professors is already doing?

Oh, please.

I heard Pelosi today and she was a miserable harridan. shrill - like some california version of Cruella de ville.

re: #179 A Kiwi Infidel

By Jove, he's got it!
I think he's GOT it!

/stan's to reason... and he can't stan at all! :D

Here's the most recent one:

I've always enjoyed your
site but why all this creationist bashing? What's the point? Do you
hate God or the idea that He created the universe? Who cares? Keep it
to yourself. Want to start a fan club for those with the same opinions?
Great! Go for it. I thought this blog was about the war on terror/Islam
and the MSM conspiring with the enemy. Did I get that wrong or did you
just change your mind? Consider starting another blog and naming it
"Little Green Mising Links" or something like that. Well, on second
thought - this is your blog, right? If you would rather expose your
bias rather than exposing the MSM's bias, assorted world Government's
bias, our politically correct nation's bias - I guess that's up to you.
You're the sage we all look up to.

re: #184 A Kiwi Infidel

Although the left would argue that it is "I" who have indoctrinated them.

As a parent, that's part of your job.

Charles, playing rope a dope.

re: #185 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in tonight. Creationists REALLY don't like this one.

Perhaps they will read my post #174, coz suddenly I have got it. I really do have to take my hat off to you, Charles. You probably had this worked out ages ago. I was a bit slow.

re: #175 Sharmuta

The solution to leftist indoctrination is not creationist indoctrination.

Right the best plan would be an intelligent discourse from ALL POINTS of view, but there appear to be enough extremists ie both religious and atheist zealots that that will not happen in the foreseeable future.

re: #175 Sharmuta

The solution to leftist indoctrination is not creationist indoctrination.

dingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdi ngding

RE113 drv208
don't think you can reason with the dingers in this crowd.

re: #184 A Kiwi Infidel

Good job!

I get the point. This is not about Obama and there were other threads about the un-important race for the leader of the free World earlier. I'm out of here. Before I go I want to let you know that I am sorry to have interrupted your discussion.I always felt this was a fair and free discussion group and I was comfortable here. Felling a little less of that tonight. Night all.

re: #174 A Kiwi Infidel

I have just had to sit up and slap myself, (without your help, Mandy) as the penny dropped.
I dont think I have advocated that Creationism should be taught, whether theory or science, in the classroom. I have be a defender of creationism as it relates to my faith. I believe it, in FAITH.

However, suddenly in one post (as above) I see stan's little plan. The discovery Institute is doing islams dirty work. Get into the science class and then islam follows.

I agree that ID/creationism must be kept out of school curricula.

Dontcha' just love it when the light bulb turns on?

BTW, I'm a Christian who believes that God created it all but, I don't know how He went about it.

re: #189 Charles

Here's the most recent one:

Ok, I'll give him a few points for "Little Green Mising Links."

Would drive him crazy if 1) You started a blog by that name or 2) rotating title.

re: #185 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in tonight. Creationists REALLY don't like this one.

You're making many uncomfortable.

whoops..caught my eye..
re: #157 A Kiwi Infidel

I, sir, have had a total knee replacement, and I have, on the absolute order from my surgeon, been banned from any sport/combat that may undo his work.

{leans back smuggly, with hands behind head, smiling}

boy..where do you start? is this a /sarc? I'm going to look like a fool here (boy..if that doesn't open up a new thread...)

I had my first knee operation at 16..blah blah ect but no effen surgeon tells me i can't undo his work...
you look beyond what is possible...
/sorry

re: #166 gman

a sleeper is my guess. Probably got a phone call 10 minutes ago.

"Iguana Banana Salami"

went into Manchurian Candidate Mode and the rest is history.

It's no wonder Charles J. (the Monitor Lizard) has to live somewhat like Michael Westen in the TV show, "Burn Notice." I've been catching up on that show this week, watching the first season for the first time -- it's not bad! Not great, but not bad entertainment.

In fact, I think I'll go ahead and watch the 2-hour season-ending episode right now. Logging off, so nobody can shoot me with a spoiler!

Charles,

Obviously it comes as no surprise that Fundy Christians are just as bigoted, ignorant and "unchristian" as Fundy Islamists are as bigoted, ignorant and "unislamic".

We can only be grateful that fundy Christians don't blow up things as often as fundy Muslims.

re: #16 Thanos

So DI's been insanely aiding the rise of fundamentalist Islam over secularism in Turkey, which is already showing instability as a result. They sure are dimfucks if they don't understand the import of the secular military and gov't in Turkey.

The Turkish military will only let this shit go so far before they purge it. Then the cries of Christian persecution will once again be heard.

If our country keeps allowing bullshit like this in our schools, we'll have to hire Mexicans to mow our lawns and do our kid's homework for them.

g'nite Lizards.

re: #189 Charles

Fist in the beehive.

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Do you remember the Infocom text adventure game version of this series (well, the early books). I could never get any further than the finnicky door, who would never let me past itself.

I played a lot of the Infocom text games back in the day, including THGTHG. It was a pretty good one. Never finished it but came pretty close.

re: #205 Pawn of the Oppressor

If our country keeps allowing bullshit like this in our schools, we'll have to hire Mexicans to mow our lawns and do our kid's homework for them.

Not funny, IMHO.

re: #202 garycooper

Jeffery Donovan is HOT.

re: #198 MandyManners

Dontcha' just love it when the light bulb turns on?

BTW, I'm a Christian who believes that God created it all but, I don't know how He went about it.

Ditto, and we dont need to know.

{Mandy} from Kiwi

re: #203 wanglese

Whoa. I'm a fundamentalist Christian.

re: #208 Opilio

I played a lot of the Infocom text games back in the day, including THGTHG. It was a pretty good one. Never finished it but came pretty close.

Ok, HOW THE HELL DID YOU GET THROUGH THE DOOR. If I can find the answer to that, I can die in peace.

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

"Little Green Mising Links."

Ah, as in "Little Green SurMising Links", yeah?

Oh.

You mean he MISSPELLED "MiSSing", and meant "Missing Links", Walt? Implying that he actually believes evolutionary biology is destroyed by the presence/absence of said "Mising" links?

/howdaya spel 'maroon'?

re: #185 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in tonight. Creationists REALLY don't like this one.

Question for those sending love notes to Charles.
Why don't you engage in the debate?
State your ideas, defend them.
Sending snarky emails to Charles about what he chooses to post on his blog is very, very petty.

As a Christian I ask you to think about the testimony this behavior exhibits.

re: #204 Wendya

2 Generals and others were just arrested. Let's hope they had backup.

re: #211 A Kiwi Infidel

Ditto, and we dont need to know.

{Mandy} from Kiwi

But, God gave us plenty of curiousilty and intellect to try.

It still surprises me that people have the "supercilious chutzpah" to tell Charles what he should and should not post......excuse me?

Besides being bad manners, it's just bizarre.

Some people have boundary issues.

re: #215 jcm

Question for those sending love notes to Charles.
Why don't you engage in the debate?
State your ideas, defend them.
Sending snarky emails to Charles about what he chooses to post on his blog is very, very petty.

As a Christian I ask you to think about the testimony this behavior exhibits.

Amen.

re: #193 shotgun

Religious discussions with zealots are never reasonable by definition. That's why we call them zealots.

However- there is plenty of intelligent discourse over topics such as science, education, and many others.

By the way, just saw I was deleted. Sorry, but what did I say that could ever deserve to be deleted? I was going to bed but realized it was my comment. So much for free discussion!For all the years I have commented here I have been probably the least controversial person.If you all feel I have been out of bounds, maybe I should be banned.

re: #214 Carridine

Ah, as in "Little Green SurMising Links", yeah?

Oh.

You mean he MISSPELLED "MiSSing", and meant "Missing Links", Walt? Implying that he actually believes evolutionary biology is destroyed by the presence/absence of said "Mising" links?

/howdaya spel 'maroon'?

?

Ah, got your hands on some really strong Indo happy juice tonight?

re: #195 littleO

RE113 drv208
don't think you can reason with the dingers in this crowd.

#113: "...Islam is not ipso facto evil. It is the violent acts and deterioration of freedoms that are carried out in Islam's name that are evil."

If you have a reasoned way to separate Islam from the actions of fundamentalist Islamists, we'd all like to hear it.

re: #221 nigella

By the way, just saw I was deleted. Sorry, but what did I say that could ever deserve to be deleted? I was going to bed but realized it was my comment. So much for free discussion!For all the years I have commented here I have been probably the least controversial person.If you all feel I have been out of bounds, maybe I should be banned.

I've posted this notice at least seven times today:

Any comments telling me what I should not post at LGF will be deleted.

re: #164 MandyManners

Well I understand what you mean but when has complexity ever stopped them from oversimplifying a topic when there's a chance to take potshots at religion? I had heard of intelligent design (small i small d by design :>) but never I D or Discovery Institute till I started browsing here. Not even a casual "The Discovery Institute, a right wing fundamentalist think tank that is funding the ID fight in our schools ...." They're usually good for a quick shot of negative characterization on stuff like religion in the schools.

re: #185 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in tonight. Creationists REALLY don't like this one.

And so, a reminder - if you like this post, ding it up.

Charles, what did I say?

The separation of church and state is what makes America great.

Hey I'm a rapper now!

re: #210 MandyManners

Jeffery Donovan is HOT.

Agreed.

re: #189 Charles

Here's the most recent one:

Well there's the crux of the matter. Charles Hates God!

/

re: #228 Racer X

The separation of church and state is what makes America great.

Hey I'm a rapper now!

You're a poet and didn't realize it.

re: #203 wanglese

Charles,

Obviously it comes as no surprise that Fundy Christians are just as bigoted, ignorant and "unchristian" as Fundy Islamists are as bigoted, ignorant and "unislamic".

We can only be grateful that fundy Christians don't blow up things as often as fundy Muslims.

Well, actually, fundy Muslims are very Islamic. And I can't recall the last time a fundy Christian blew anything up. But this is some pretty bad, stupid sh*t these particular fundy Christians are doing. Apparently they really believe ANY religion and creationism teaching is preferable to secularism and teaching evolution.

And this has been going on since '85? You don't reverse long term stuff like this overnight. It WILL bear evil fruit...it's too late to stop it now.

re: #222 Walter L. Newton

Nah, thanks, WL...

I'm sitting high (NPI) above the hustle and bustle of the business section of downtown Bangkok, pretty much finished with 3 hours of proofreading and editing of 'YoY and down QoQ' reports on everything from petro-chem to comm-tech to real-estate, and

I noticed yr excellent inclusion of that "Mising Link", and just ran a goofy riff on it. Tried to make it clear that it was riffing on HIM, not you. :D

re: #232 Tigger2005

And I can't recall the last time a fundy Christian blew anything up.

Atlanta 2000.

re: #225 jcw46

Well I understand what you mean but when has complexity ever stopped them from oversimplifying a topic when there's a chance to take potshots at religion? I had heard of intelligent design (small i small d by design :>) but never I D or Discovery Institute till I started browsing here. Not even a casual "The Discovery Institute, a right wing fundamentalist think tank that is funding the ID fight in our schools ...." They're usually good for a quick shot of negative characterization on stuff like religion in the schools.

Yes, that is puzzling. I wonder if they've been told to ignore it? Or, they ignore it because it's not a sexy issue until a lawsuit is filed.

re: #201 HoosierHoops

whoops..caught my eye..
re: #157 A Kiwi Infidel

I, sir, have had a total knee replacement, and I have, on the absolute order from my surgeon, been banned from any sport/combat that may undo his work.

{leans back smuggly, with hands behind head, smiling}

boy..where do you start? is this a /sarc? I'm going to look like a fool here (boy..if that doesn't open up a new thread...)

I had my first knee operation at 16..blah blah ect but no effen surgeon tells me i can't undo his work...
you look beyond what is possible...
/sorry

Got side tackled in rugby at age 20, total destruction of ACL with lateral cartilage damage. That was 33 years ago. technology wasnt avalable for re-constructive surgery although a lateral substitution repair was carried out in 1980 using a iliotibial band. This stabalised the knee allowing me to recommense running, but over the last 2-3 years degeneration of the joint meant continued pain 24/7 (I was taking 2x2 200 mg bruphon per day) will occassional blow outs filling the joint with blood. The surgery was a total knee, I may set off alarms at airports now. Bloody marvelous, though. I can go deer hunting again.

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************** NOTICE *****************************
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Charles has posted that if you question what he posts .....
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***** HE WILL DELETE YOU! *************************
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good lord already.....
/ok that's just an expression..don't get all good lord with me..

re: #205 Pawn of the Oppressor

If our country keeps allowing bullshit like this in our schools, we'll have to hire Mexicans to mow our lawns and do our kid's homework for them.

Is this an increasing trend in your area of the country?
I assume by "keeps allowing" you must mean that it has been allowed and is continually being allowed. If so, you need to get together w/ others and file a law suit.

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're a poet and didn't realize it.

Shouldn't that be, "You're a poet and didn't know it" ?

re: #233 Carridine

Nah, thanks, WL...

I'm sitting high (NPI) above the hustle and bustle of the business section of downtown Bangkok, pretty much finished with 3 hours of proofreading and editing of 'YoY and down QoQ' reports on everything from petro-chem to comm-tech to real-estate, and

I noticed yr excellent inclusion of that "Mising Link", and just ran a goofy riff on it. Tried to make it clear that it was riffing on HIM, not you. :D

I wish I was. I am DYING to get out of the country, just can't afford it now, or see it in the near future. Although I have decided, if my situation in life suddenly heads the rest of the way into the crapper, I'm selling what I got left and going to disappear in France.

Oh, I realized you were making some kind of joke, so was I.

re: #72 Sharmuta

I agree with you completely. I'm not sure if they're trying to use science to prove their faith to themselves or to others (perhaps both) but, imo what they are really doing with this attempt to scientifically prove their faith is to strip it of it's spirituality. Perhaps they think they can use science to prove their faith in order to convert others to their faith, but in the process what they're really doing is not focusing on the true message of Jesus and rather they're stripping faith of wonder.

Personally, I am beginning to think they don't give a flying fig about faith one way or the other. I think they're main goals are money and power, driven by greed, lust, and the desire to subjugate.

re: #229 DistantThunder

Agreed.

Crap. I missed Burn Notice tonight.
Well, I can barely think and type at the same time, never mind think, type and watch TV, too.

re: #224 Charles

I had a post deleted as well. Not sure why.

I certainly wasn't telling you what not to post.

I was just being my usual tasteless, mildly offensive self.

It was from the heart, too.

re: #239 Tigger2005

Shouldn't that be, "You're a poet and didn't know it" ?

Hey, thats good! Can I use it?

/

re: #203 wanglese

Charles,

Obviously it comes as no surprise that Fundy Christians are just as bigoted, ignorant and "unchristian" as Fundy Islamists are as bigoted, ignorant and "unislamic".

We can only be grateful that fundy Christians don't blow up things as often as fundy Muslims.

That is a stupid, emotive and unreasoned remark. Go back to sleep.

re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth

Personally, I am beginning to think they don't give a flying fig about faith one way or the other. I think they're main goals are money and power, driven by greed, lust, and the desire to subjugate.

I'm starting to wonder about that, too.

re: #230 Pawn of the Oppressor

Well there's the crux of the matter. Charles Hates God!

/

re: #237 HoosierHoops

**************************************** **********
************** NOTICE *****************************
**************************************** **********
Charles has posted that if you question what he posts .....
**************************************** **********
***** HE WILL DELETE YOU! *************************
**************************************** **********

good lord already.....
/ok that's just an expression..don't get all good lord with me..

Beware........

re: #227 nigella

Charles, what did I say?

I'm not singling you out, but after comment after comment after comment telling me that I should stop posting about this topic, we have a new policy.

These topics have been some of the most hotly debated threads ever posted at LGF. A lot of people ARE interested in the subject.

re: #236 A Kiwi Infidel

Got side tackled in rugby at age 20, total destruction of ACL with lateral cartilage damage. That was 33 years ago. technology wasnt avalable for re-constructive surgery although a lateral substitution repair was carried out in 1980 using a iliotibial band. This stabalised the knee allowing me to recommense running, but over the last 2-3 years degeneration of the joint meant continued pain 24/7 (I was taking 2x2 200 mg bruphon per day) will occassional blow outs filling the joint with blood. The surgery was a total knee, I may set off alarms at airports now. Bloody marvelous, though. I can go deer hunting again.

/ I'm a jerk..I didn't realize..
sorry bro

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey, thats good! Can I use it?

/

LOL be my guest. I think I heard it somewhere else a long time ago, no idea where now.

re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth

I've heard a hypothesis that they're trying to trigger end times, but I don't know enough about that mythology to pass judgment.

re: #220 Sharmuta

Religious discussions with zealots are never reasonable by definition. That's why we call them zealots.

However- there is plenty of intelligent discourse over topics such as science, education, and many others.

Maybe you don't get the point, so I will try again, there a plenty of atheist scientists who are zealots about their belief in the absence of a Creator, that clear enough for ya? I get calls from several of them a on a regular basis ranting and raving about "don't you know carbon decay proves the world is 100,000 years old" and so on and so forth, in the end it sounds more like they are trying to convince them self rather than me.

Funny thing is when I was in school a hundred years ago we talked about both evolution theories and the possibility of a ID, as well as viewpoints adopting principals of each. It seems the problems have only started recently when extremists from BOTH THE LEFT and the right insist on having things their way.

re: #238 wolfie

Is this an increasing trend in your area of the country?
I assume by "keeps allowing" you must mean that it has been allowed and is continually being allowed. If so, you need to get together w/ others and file a law suit.

Not interested in word-mincing... We've got a President and at least one governor who doesn't reject this garbage out of hand. That's f-cking embarassing any way you slice it.

re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth

Personally, I am beginning to think they don't give a flying fig about faith one way or the other. I think they're main goals are money and power, driven by greed, lust, and the desire to subjugate.

That could very well be.

re: #245 A Kiwi Infidel

That is a stupid, emotive and unreasoned remark. Go back to sleep.

Imagine if John McCain had a group of close supporters that were abortion clinic bombers who never went to prison.

Democrat heads would explode.

re: #203 wanglese

Charles,

Obviously it comes as no surprise that Fundy Christians are just as bigoted, ignorant and "unchristian" as Fundy Islamists are as bigoted, ignorant and "unislamic".

We can only be grateful that fundy Christians don't blow up things as often as fundy Muslims.

Thanks in part to the Western tradition of free thought and public education, the chances of a Christian movement similar in tone and action to the Islamicists is exceptionally small. So they take very small steps and do a lot of crying about persecution. Much like the Islamicists in Europe.

Are you okay with Muslim fundamentalists getting a foothold in our kids' classrooms?

These folks may not know this but Allah is not pleased with their behavior.

re: #248 jcm

Beware........

you are wicked..
I'm laughing my a*s off

re: #198 MandyManners

Dontcha' just love it when the light bulb turns on?

BTW, I'm a Christian who believes that God created it all but, I don't know how He went about it.

So am I, and I don't mind not knowing exactly how He did it. I love science and the lively discussions on this topic. They expand my understanding even if I don't agree with everything.

re: #169 NemoParticularis

Let us say, rather, that Islam propounds a belief system that is at variance with the entire civilized world, a belief system that not only justifies but also encourages that the devout Mohammdan to either convert, subjugate or kill all those who do not submit themselves to the will of their god Allah.

That being said, it must be destroyed.

I have to say, that in my opinion, any "religion" that wants to tell me I'm less of a person because I don't have a penis is, in short, evil.

re: #240 Walter L. Newton
Square, WL...

And on 'getting out of the country', know that there is a community of English-speaking non-Thais (Canadian, Brit, Murrican, Aussie, Kiwi, Indian, Burmese and others) HERE, in Bangkok, and that means there ARE JOBS here, and OPPORTUNITIES if you're willing to look for them and work to take advantage of them.

I don't know what you do, WLN, but there's a good chance that you can DO IT IN BANGKOK, for PAY!

re: #252 Dan G.

I've heard a hypothesis that they're trying to trigger end times, but I don't know enough about that mythology to pass judgment.

Interesting. You would think if they were that fanatical about the creator, they would let Him do His thing.