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The Creation Museum

Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:10:21 pm PDT

Before we get to the real point of this post, here’s some background information on the Creation Museum in Kentucky:

The Creation Museum is a 60,000 square foot museum in the United States designed to promote young Earth creationism. The museum presents an account of the origins of the universe, life, mankind, and man’s early history according to a literal reading of the book of Genesis. Its exhibits reject evolution and assert that the Earth and all of its life forms were created 6000 years ago over a six-day period, and that man and dinosaurs once coexisted.

These views disagree with well in excess of 99.9% of the scientists in relevant fields. Also, the museum exhibits are at odds with the vast majority of scientists who accept that the Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, and that the dinosaurs became extinct 65.5 million years before human beings arose. The museum has generated criticism by the scientific community, several groups of educators, Christian groups opposed to young Earth creationism, and in the general press.

The museum, which is said to have cost $27 million, is privately-funded through donations to the apologetics ministry Answers in Genesis and opened its doors to the public on May 28, 2007. Based on projections, the museum anticipated 250,000 paying visitors in its first year of operation. According to AiG, within its first month attendance surpassed 100,000 visitors by July 21, 2007 and 200,000 visitors on September 20, 2007. Visitor attendance also exceeded first year expectations only 5 months and 5 days after opening, with a total of 250,000 visitors on November 2, 2007.

The museum was originally marketed as the Creation Museum and Family Discovery Center. It opened in late Spring of 2007 as the “Creation Museum.” The museum is located in Petersburg, Kentucky, near the Greater Cincinnati International Airport on 49 acres of land; the Answers in Genesis main offices are attached to the museum. The facility’s stated mission is to “exalt Jesus Christ as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer,” to “equip Christians to better evangelize the lost,” and to “challenge visitors to receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.”

According to the founder of Answers in Genesis, Ken Ham, “One of the main reasons we moved there was because we are within one hour’s flight of 69 per cent of America’s population.” Ham also explains how the idea of the museum originated: “Australia’s not really the place to build such a facility if you’re going to reach the world. Really, America is.” Previously Ham worked for the Institute for Creation Research, which runs a creationist museum in Santee, California, with free admission.

With that introduction, a reader emailed a link to a Flickr photo essay by “astropop,” who visited the Creation Museum with a good camera and a good eye.

Here we see an animatronic cave girl happily coexisting with an animatronic vegetarian allosaur.

Here’s a slideshow of all the pictures. I recommend absorbing the entire message.

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1300 comments

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1 Indefatigable  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:12:42pm

Where to begin...

2 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:12:48pm

So what? sort of a Jurasic Park thing.

3 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:14:57pm

It's a free country. They can make fools of themselves. Bad for everyone as educational standards decline. This stuff is like Kudzu.

4 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:15:37pm

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

5 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:15:55pm

A museum dedicated to bat-shattery and superstition.

I hope there are no tax dollars being contributed to that. (Yea, right!)

6 Cartman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:18pm

Damn. I was looking forward to spending a couple of hours here during LGF prime time. This stuff just ain't my cup of tea. Guess I'll come back later. *sigh*

7 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:40pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Wait, what are you trying to tell me?.....

8 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:52pm

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

9 Steffan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:56pm

Well, it's like the man said:

A fool and his money are soon parted.

10 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:59pm
11 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:17:04pm

re: #2 grumpy old codger

So what? sort of a Jurasic Park thing.

More like Jurassic Eden...

12 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:17:50pm
13 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:02pm

Wait, wait, I though that Elvis was everywhere? I am so confused....

14 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:05pm

And the really sad thing is these people actually believe this nonsense. It's scary how so many people so easily turn off their brains to believe this. Almost as scary as the thought that they vote in our elections.

15 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:18pm

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

I want to know what's in the gift shop.

See the slideshow. It's all there.

16 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:27pm

re: #14 mossley

And the really sad thing is these people actually believe this nonsense. It's scary how so many people so easily turn off their brains to believe this. Almost as scary as the thought that they vote in our elections.

Well, these "scary" people may offset the other "scary" people, who really scare me. One of the bennies of a democracy.

17 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:30pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Ulcer-free over here! I think this stuff is interesting, and an important issue, believe it or not.

18 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:41pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

Apollo 14 Astronaut says, yeah ET's been here dude
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

19 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:55pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Guess you wouldn't see a problem with a stadium sized mosque either, as long as it's constructed with private funds.

Anyway, Charles didn't say there's a "problem." But the existence of such a museum, and its popularity, is a pretty good barometer of the level of scientific ignorance in this country. And frankly, it's a bit scary.

20 CIA Reject  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:34pm

These people are either very naive and are (erroneously) reading the Bible as a history book, or they are cynically Evil and they are mocking Faith.

I'm not sure which, but the article has reminded me that I need to take out the trash so I'll take my leave now

Cheers!

21 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:37pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

I think you're not supposed to tell Charles what to post on his blog.

22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:53pm
23 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:21:15pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

We could call it La-La Land. We could have a stoning booth and a clitorcetomy clinic and an sword amputation block.

The possibilities are endless....

The acid throwing street, where you get to throw acid in the faces of un-veiled whores.

Mohammed meets Disney!

24 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:21:35pm

re: #7 mbruce

Wait, what are you trying to tell me?.....

Well, it looks like the Wright City one went out of business (The Man probably got to them when they got too close to the truth).

But there's another one in hattiesburg, Mississippi

25 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:16pm

It's a museum in Kentucky..
The story line writes itself..
/OK it's the law that Hoosiers have to tease our neighbors

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:16pm

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

27 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:58pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Is anyone trying to get the "Elvis is alive" nonsense taught as fact in public schools?

28 Paul  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:16pm

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

29 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:22pm

I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry at this. Maybe both.

30 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:27pm

re: #16 grumpy old codger

Well, these "scary" people may offset the other "scary" people, who really scare me. One of the bennies of a democracy.


Well, if you want to live in the Dark Ages, that's your problem. The problem for the rest of the country is that you take everyone else down with you.

31 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:42pm

That was truly disturbing. Ignorance at a level I could have only imagined.

32 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:59pm

re: #17 Charles

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

33 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:25:36pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

They ate the others?

34 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:25:54pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.

35 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:14pm

re: #19 Tigger2005

Guess you wouldn't see a problem with a stadium sized mosque either, as long as it's constructed with private funds.

Well, that's an interesting jump, but if they've got the money and the zoning and the will of the people, there's nothing LEGALLY stopping them, regardless of what I may like. I live a mile from the recently infamous south St. Louis 100-foot prayer tower (update: it's finished and the bottom 10 feet have been painted minty green: a classy combination with the mosque itself, which is a converted 1970s bank building). I don't like it, but apparently it's okay with the neighborhood and the law.

36 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:16pm

This guy belings in deliverance, behind a banjo:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

37 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:33pm

Okay, as a Christian, I have to admit I have some loopy brethren. But, I also believe that places like this (and there are some here in CA) that pander to these beliefs--a bit like "Heritage USA" (groan). No matter how hard you try to convince them, they will not let go.

They look at me funny and doubt my salvation if I don't accept the "young Earth" fantasy. Funny thing, faith. They cannot understand that my faith isn't anchored to whether or not carbon dating is accurate. It's based on a certain Jewish carpenter who self-resuscitated 2,000 years ago. Everything else is subject to discussion.

I posted this on another thread, but this is still a great quote:

I tell you Sid, that one of these days we'll look in to our microscope and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to lose his testicles.

-Peter O'Toole in Creator

38 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:47pm

re: #27 mossley

You could check in Memphis. ;)

39 Grand Poobah  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:11pm

I see this, and I first frown, because how much money was spent doing this travesty?

My second impulse is to simply say "Well, we can keep the museum, if it's private, and let these people alone with their own beliefs."

I am certainly not condoning this belief, I don't like this sort of thing myself because it implies that faith and science cannot go hand in hand, which is not true.

In any event, I find the whole thing depressing.

40 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:20pm

re: #34 jaunte

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.


The flood ruined the veggie crop that year.

41 theheat  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:37pm

In my Creation Museum, the dinosaur has already eaten the girl for lunch and is looking for her parents for dinner. I guess my version is a little more exciting, at least from a visitor's standpoint.

I mean, if you're going to do something as ridiculous as the Creation Museum, you may as well pull out all the stops and make it as unbelievable as possible.

(And I think my museum would also sell more tickets.)

42 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:41pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

Those dinosaurs would get liquored up and start chasing the female staff around at the office Christmas party. It got embarrassing and HR said it was a real liability so Godcorp just had to let all the old dinosaurs go.

43 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:52pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here?

Well, now that you mention it . . .

Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact - but it has been covered up for 60 years

Aliens have contacted humans several times but governments have hidden the truth for 60 years, the sixth man to walk on the moon has claimed.

Apollo 14 astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell, said he was aware of many UFO visits to Earth during his career with NASA but each one was covered up.

Dr Mitchell, 77, said during a radio interview that sources at the space agency who had had contact with aliens described the beings as 'little people who look strange to us.'

He said supposedly real-life ET's were similar to the traditional image of a small frame, large eyes and head.

Chillingly, he claimed our technology is 'not nearly as sophisticated' as theirs and "had they been hostile", he warned 'we would be been gone by now'.

/so, did they evolve or what?

44 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:53pm

Sorry to go OT folks, but I think we needs a laugh.

Ergo, The Price Better Be right!

/Now back to your regularly scheduled mayhem

45 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:55pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

It was a class struggle.

/Marx

46 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:57pm

re: #25 HoosierHoops

It's down the road from Lynchburg. People go to the Jack Daniels Museum then come here. At which point, they'll buy anything.

47 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:28:00pm

re: #33 kansas

Lol

48 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:28:40pm

re: #6 Cartman

Damn. I was looking forward to spending a couple of hours here during LGF prime time. This stuff just ain't my cup of tea. Guess I'll come back later. *sigh*

There are other threads, take your pick.

49 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:17pm

re: #46 calcajunYa can't drink at the Jack Daniels place, unless they changed the law. It is in a dry county. :(

50 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:24pm

re: #37 calcajun

I tell you Sid, that one of these days we'll look in to our microscope and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to lose his testicles.


Heh.

51 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:30pm

re: #28 Paul

Good point. If someone really believes the literal translation of Genesis, than what about Genesis 6:19..

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

So none of the animal world should have gone extinct from the great flood.

52 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:12pm

re: #42 lifeofthemind

Those dinosaurs would get liquored up and start chasing the female staff around at the office Christmas party. It got embarrassing and HR said it was a real liability so Godcorp just had to let all the old dinosaurs go.

that may have been the quote of the day..ding ding..

53 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:24pm

Let's not forget this one in South Dakota.

54 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:30pm

Has any Creation scientist ever defined the limits of any biblical "kind" other than mankind?

55 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:46pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

Too many dinosaur flicks.

56 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:49pm

To all YEC'ers. Get an Interlinear Bible. A Strong's Concordance. Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.

In Gen. 1:2 (Amplified Bible)
The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.

You will find the word was is more properly rendered became.

In the six days of creation the Hebrew word is yowm. Yowm can have different meanings depending on context.

And finally...
Psalm 89:14 (Amplified Bible)
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and loving-kindness and truth go before Your face.
John 17:17 (Amplified Bible)
Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth
Deuteronomy 32:4 (Amplified Bible)
He is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are law and justice. A God of faithfulness without breach or deviation, just and right is He.

Given these verses explain how God whose work is perfect, whose Word is truth, whose authority is founded on his righteousness could place falsehoods in His creation.

57 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:50pm
58 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:25pm

BTW, I don't believe in young-Earth creationism. I just believe if a fool and his money are going to be parted, it's not really my business.

/don't think creationism should be taught in schools.

59 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:27pm

So a chicken is laying in bed beside an egg smoking a cigarette. The chicken turns to the egg and says, "Well, I guess that answers that question."

60 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:55pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

61 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:58pm

re: #52 HoosierHoops

that may have been the quote of the day..ding ding..

Your servant.

62 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:03pm

looks like they have taken A LOT artist license.
the modern brick wall behind the cave girl and dinosaur in the photo, is rather odd.
but what the heck, i guess anything goes.

63 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:17pm

re: #30 mossley

Dark Ages? Am dragging down others with me? I despise any holier than thous, of any type, ilk or persuasion.
Or did you mean to say that democracy was dragging us down? Could I trust you to judge us?
Creationists haven't YET condemned me to death due to my heritage, religion, etc.. Rage Boy's friends have.
Again haven't been shot at by any creationists that I know of, but I have been shot at by ROPers.

64 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:23pm
65 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:47pm

re: #49 pingjockey

Yes, but can't you buy stuff there? My brother went there for his honeymoon in '79 and loved the tour.

66 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:33:08pm

I don't mind watching fools and their money part ways. But I do not like that they target the children of the fools.

67 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:06pm

re: #62 nyc redneck

It was a beaux arts dinosaur who could afford a bronze age loft

68 Sizzlack  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:32pm

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

69 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:50pm

i'm going to love going there. i love these out of the way interesting road side attractions.

70 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:12pm

re: #59 kansas

So a chicken is laying in bed beside an egg smoking a cigarette. The chicken turns to the egg and says, "Well, I guess that answers that question."

Is this thing on?

71 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:18pm

re: #34 jaunte

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.

The meat-eating dinosaurs ate them.

Then the meat-eating dinosaurs died off because of smoking.

72 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:22pm

re: #68 Sizzlack


Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.


I'd buy tickets for that show!
;-P

73 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #65 calcajun
I bet you can good deals on 1/2 gals of JD. Yeehaw!

74 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:35pm

re: #23 WhiteRasta

We could call it La-La Land. We could have a stoning booth and a clitorcetomy clinic and an sword amputation block.

The possibilities are endless....

The acid throwing street, where you get to throw acid in the faces of un-veiled whores.

Mohammed meets Disney!

How would this be different from the Magic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
Oh, you'd let Jews in.

75 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:50pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

Well, when Obama gets elected, the meek shall lie down with the raptors.

76 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:02pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

It's not a museum! It's the old sets from "Land of the Lost"!

77 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:12pm

Laughable on the face of it, considering that during the age of the dinos, no mammal larger than a rat was able to survive, according to Bakker's book.

78 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:40pm

re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

Eureka! Global warming.

79 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:54pm

re: #77 irongrampa

Any larger and they became dino-poop.

80 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:03pm

re: #75 grumpy old codger

I think that should be the morons shall sup with the murderers.

81 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:28pm

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.
Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

82 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:29pm

the existence of this place makes me sad.

83 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:33pm

re: #77 irongrampa

Laughable on the face of it, considering that during the age of the dinos, no mammal larger than a rat was able to survive, according to Bakker's book.

didn't you see Jurassic park?

84 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:16pm

With a friend, I attended an Answers In Genesis presentation/fundraiser at a local church in VA. It was Nov 2001, IIRC. Ken Ham was one of about 4 speakers. Another was Henry Morris who talked about his pursuit of Noah's Arc, visiting Mt Ararat and other middle east countries, and having been struck by lightning at least once. Morris is currently head of the Institute for Creationist Research.

These guys were slick. Except for Ham, it wasn't all that obvious (to me at the time) that their collective agenda was pushing creationism into our schools.

85 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:27pm

The creation museum group does talk about dinosaurs on the ark, since many have mentioned that: [Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

86 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:28pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

And this, from the wikipedia article: "In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."

87 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:34pm

re: #39 Grand Poobah

I see this, and I first frown, because how much money was spent doing this travesty?

$27 million.

88 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:39:43pm

re: #87 Charles

Charles, there is no law against ignorance. Wasteful yes, but their money.

89 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:39:50pm

re: #81 texasjihad
El Cajon also has a museum for alien contacts. Can't think of the name of the group. They'd get on public access late at night with real cheesy(think original Dr. Who special effects) shows. They also had a big ol' cadillac with a flying saucer on it. The Lunarians, IIRC.

90 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:40:00pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.
Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

Praise God, Brother. Get some real science in here.

91 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:40:22pm

re: #17 Charles

Ulcer-free over here! I think this stuff is interesting, and an important issue, believe it or not.

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

92 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:00pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

the existence of this place makes me sad.


What makes me sad is that I am not making any money off of this.

93 dormain  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:05pm

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

94 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:08pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

the existence of this place makes me sad.

/the existence of San Francisco values will bring our civilization to an end faster

95 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:46pm
According to AiG, within its first month attendance surpassed 100,000 visitors by July 21, 2007 and 200,000 visitors on September 20, 2007.

I wonder how many showed up just see what the creationists are trying to sell. I'd go just to see a true cultural oddity.

96 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:47pm

Their kids learn about paleontology by watching The Flintstones.

97 The Shadow Do  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:56pm

I have to admit that seeing this place is funny as hell. It's just plain silly. Sorry, that's just me.

98 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:57pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

Daddy, are we there yet? (constant complasint of my kids when we were going anywhere.)

99 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:27pm

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.

100 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:34pm

I don't think, in all my years going to Sunday school or church and reading the Bible, do I remember the time line being in one of the pages. In fact, I don't remember that the Bible said that Jesus was born in the year 5,000. In fact, according to the Jewish calendar, it is now the year 5768. There is something fishy going on with the dates. Assumptions, assumptions.

101 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:38pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

'kay, doormat, answer my re: #56

102 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:51pm

re: #98 grumpy old codger
And wise ass teenagers on the road to a Mariners game!

103 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:02pm

re: #90 kansas

Praise God, Brother. Get some real science in here.

I think the best science website is the dailygalaxy.com great wonderful science...

104 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:04pm

re: #96 Mich-again

Their kids learn about paleontology by watching The Flintstones.

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

105 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:06pm

re: #99 Mich-again

Barkeep, two beers over here please. And keep them coming!

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:22pm

re: #49 pingjockey

Ya can't drink at the Jack Daniels place, unless they changed the law. It is in a dry county. :(

Freakin' interesting tour though.

107 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:31pm

re: #87 Charles

$27 million.

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

108 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:38pm

re: #100 lone_wolf_in_illinois

I don't think, in all my years going to Sunday school or church and reading the Bible, do I remember the time line being in one of the pages. In fact, I don't remember that the Bible said that Jesus was born in the year 5,000. In fact, according to the Jewish calendar, it is now the year 5768. There is something fishy going on with the dates. Assumptions, assumptions.

Bishop Usher comes to mind.

109 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

Gack. Didn't Ralph Bakshi make a movie like that and call it Heavy Metal? I am having visions.

110 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:26pm

re: #104 OldLineTexan

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

*snicker* :D

111 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:32pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Not sure I agree with you there, Dark Falcon.

112 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:42pm

re: #81 texasjihad

I nominate this for most incoherent rant of the day. Do you even know what science is?

113 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:46pm

are non insane people allowed to work there?

114 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:10pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

You can say that about a lot of stuff.

Please don't come after me with torches.

115 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:51pm

re: #109 Crimsonfisted
Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

116 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:52pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

Obama raises that in 2 weeks.

117 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:08pm

Howdy All,

You're lookin' at a lotta money here folks.

First time I've ever seen so many dinosaurs and jackasses in the same place.

118 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:16pm

re: #90 kansas

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

119 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:52pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

Please don't come after me with torches.

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

120 negativ  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:14pm

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

121 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:24pm

re: #63 grumpy old codger

Dark Ages? Am dragging down others with me? I despise any holier than thous, of any type, ilk or persuasion.
Or did you mean to say that democracy was dragging us down? Could I trust you to judge us?
Creationists haven't YET condemned me to death due to my heritage, religion, etc.. Rage Boy's friends have.
Again haven't been shot at by any creationists that I know of, but I have been shot at by ROPers.


Condemned by death directly, no. By ignorance, well that's one goal of the radical Muslims and the creationists are working with them in that regard.

Their assault goes beyond evolution; they attack science directly. The public schools do a horrible job of teaching basic science to begin with, and the ID crowd is mudding the water more. People don't question the illogical assumptions of junk science, they question science.

These students are our future. Think about the implications of them thinking science is nonsense. New drugs to treat illnesses, designing practical alternative energy sources, developing new strains of crops to end world hunger? Takes scientists to do it. Even if these students don't plan to go into science, they lack the basic skills to evaluate what they hear about. If you think junk science is a problem now, imagine what it will be if the ID crowd gets their way.

Do you want the design of weapons systems needed for our national defense handled by someone with a questionable understanding of the scientific method? Do you want your medical issues handled by someone who doesn't believe a demonstrably true scientific fact?

Personally, I think Charles is spot-on in his efforts to expose these fanatics and the danger they pose. They don't have to blow up buildings to be a threat; that's a strawman suitable for the DI.

122 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:37pm

re: #116 sparrowlake

Obama raises that in 2 weeks.

HA! Talk about promoting ignorance and the destruction of the country!

123 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:39pm

re: #83 HoosierHoops

Yep--loved the movie for the really first-rate portrayals of what these magnificent animals must have been.

124 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:54pm

More power to 'em. This is a good example of exercising our freedoms, and of making a buck.

Just keep it out of the public schools.

125 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:02pm

re: #105 grumpy old codger

Barkeep, two beers over here please. And keep them coming!

Two hell! How bout a dozen.

126 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:18pm

re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

And the wazeraourexes with the bambazeered abetplexes
Were crouching in places
Waiting, waiting, waiting,
For the long, long, long rainy nights
To stop the drip, drip, dripping drops
On the hull of the creaking, stinking ship of farts.


/Seuss-ish off

127 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:25pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

You can say that about a lot of stuff.

Please don't come after me with torches.

*poke* *poke*
*with a pitchfork*

/ ;-)

128 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:30pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

129 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:33pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so.

In 1880 most information traveled by horse and illnesses were treated with leeches.

130 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:33pm

re: #120 negativ

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

I will. It's a free country, at least for now.

You have a right to be an asshole. Others have the right to call you on it.

Next question? That one was too easy.

131 Purple Prose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:44pm

I can't help but think that if the financiers of this project, as well as dozens of other pointless projects, put their money into real acts of Christian charity, the world would be a better place. What's the point? Where's the Christianity? I don't see any evidence of Christ here, anymore than I see evidence of any noble motives in Muslim creationist efforts. This waste of money and human potential is not religion. It is dogmatism and, in a way, anti-Christian, just obscuring the true message of redemption in Christianity with an irrelevant sideshow.

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being. He spoke of moral truths. If we focused more on moral truths, and less on side shows, maybe we'd have more of a fighting chance against Islamism. Instead, the passion and money of people who obsess about creationist dogmatism is wasted. Instead of engaging in Christian acts of charity or defending the West from Islamism or something that preserves our culture, they misguidedly act to weaken our culture and values and compromise our future.

132 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:04pm

re: #32 grumpy old codger

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

Do you think an Einstein or a Hawkin or an Edison or a Darwin would have been seen in print if Creationists had their way?

The truth is that there are more of them than you seem to realize, and they have influence. There are more dangers in the world than the obvious ones that brought us all here in the first place, and your continuous complaints that only your list should be discussed is puzzling.

BTW, I'm old too, but more cranky than grumpy.

133 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:15pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

134 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:22pm

re: #99 Mich-again

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.


How does one heckle an inanimate object?

135 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:23pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

It's a classic. I did forget the pitchforks, though.

/sorry

136 obwon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:36pm

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

137 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:50pm

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

138 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:07pm

re: #117 M. Bensson-Levi

Howdy All,

You're lookin' at a lotta money here folks.

First time I've ever seen so many dinosaurs and jackasses in the same place.

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

139 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:07pm

think of the time, energy and money that went into pulling this together and w/ people who know nothing or care nothing abt, science.
i do want to see it. but it will be w/ the feeling that i am witnessing the work of zealots from a distant age.
i'll think of it as 'cave art'

140 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:11pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people.

Well, if they believe that the earth is less than ten thousand years old, they obviously haven't been well educated in biology, botany, geology, paleontology, genetics or physics.

It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.

Well, they knew a helluva lot less back then. And our contemporary scientists should indeed possess credibility within their scientific fields. Certainly their overwhelming consensus should. BTW: moral absolutes have as much to do with or say about empirical science and its findings as operas have to do with or say about microscopes and the bugs you can see through them.

Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

Real science is the kind that is supported by real, empirical scientific evidence. Unlike young-earth creationism.

141 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:37pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

142 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:35pm

re: #120 negativ

Be careful with your comparisons negativ, you almost sound like Al Gore.

143 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:45pm

re: #125 Mich-again

Thanks for reminding me, I just finished one and now either -
a. Raise my voice and ask the fetching Mrs. Lone_Wolf to accommodate me..
b. Raise my voice and ask anyone to accommodate me....
c. Build me a fridge that automatically flips one upstairs to me....
d. Get a dog and then teach it how to fetch one for me......
e. Get one myself......

BRB....

144 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:55pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Define credible, and like I said, get me some real science in here.

145 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:01pm

re: #127 jcm

*poke* *poke*
*with a pitchfork*

/ ;-)

Yeah, I forgot about the pitchforks...and you're harder to see without the torches...

146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:04pm

re: #138 OldLineTexan

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

How's Ted doing? Anybody hear an update lately?

147 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:19pm

re: #111 Charles

Not sure I agree with you there, Dark Falcon.

That's OK. It is your site and your points are correct. And it is unlikely to make much difference electorally. I'm likely worrying too much and I know it. I just fear losing votes, given the nightmare that awaits if we lose this election.

148 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:41pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon
Ummm....NO!

149 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:45pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

There is never a time for truth not to be spoken. Not in America.

150 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:48pm

Please note: one reason they're arguing that humans and dinosaurs lived together is because they believe dinosaurs were ... vegetarians.

Despite the gigantic teeth.

151 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:53pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

BULLSH*T go read re: #56 jcm

152 Josephine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:00pm

These things stood out for me:

- The gift shop's "Curricula: Home Schooling" book section.

- The posters listing God's Word vs. Human Reasoning. (Because we can't trust our stupid minds.)

- Criticism of the Bible or creationism being labeled as "attacks".

- The basket weaving babes looked like Natalie Portman and Angelina Jolie.

- Why were the Amish-looking women standing in the back of the room behind the men who were taller than them? How could they possibly have seen the display?

153 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:01pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

Not YOUNG Fankenstein! Not Willy Wonka! Not The Waco Kid!

Never! :)

154 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:18pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

We found a witch! Can we burn her?

155 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:33pm

What is this about a Croatian Museum in Kentucky? What are Croatians doing in Kentucky? Oh, never mind.

156 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:44pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

Watch me.

There, I did it.

It's easy.

157 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:48pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

That I had forgotten and it does change my opinion. I therefore withdraw my original comment.

158 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:56pm

re: #135 OldLineTexan

re: #119 Charles
Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?
/just sayin'


It's a classic. I did forget the pitchforks, though.
/sorry

I like the part where Lou Costello gets in the rowboat with the invisible man.

159 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:59pm

Is the message that no black people are allowed at the Creation Museum?

160 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:03pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

This is my favorite scene.. Puttin on the Ritz

161 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:10pm

re: #153 Crimsonfisted

That's Frankensteen.

162 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:14pm

re: #150 Charles

That would explain:
re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

163 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:14pm

re: #132 Naso Tang

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?

164 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:15pm

Woo-hoo! I finally got noticed by a creationist down-dinger!

165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:19pm

re: #150 Charles

Were they vegan? or just vegetarian...

I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.

166 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:31pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

Probably worth a bunch more laughs than most comedy clubs. The only problem with the place is that they might open up a can of whoop-ass on ya if ya completely lose it and crack up in there...

167 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #115 pingjockey

Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

I liked it. And Wizards.

168 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:47pm

re: #133 texasjihad

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

i'm laughing that dinosaurs are right there w/ humans.
why couldn't this have been better?

169 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:05pm

re: #121 mossley
Mossly,
I think you're being too kind overall. Public education SUCKS. We're turning out students who can't multiply, parse a sentence, you name it.
Blaming science only is missing the fact. We've got students who can't locate CA on a map. Unless we turn around the entire system, the result will be the same: Little Johnnie can't do shit but he feels good about himself.

170 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:26pm

re: #120 negativ

Not that I agree with the creationist museum but you're comparing apples to oranges here. Creationist museums may be very out there but I doubt that their presence incites violence. I guarantee you that a denier museum would incite violence, that's its whole purpose, and then the public would have to foot the bill for the police investigations of the inevitable acts of violence and vandalism that would follow. Not to mention physical protection for the visitors, employees, property, etc.

171 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:38pm

re: #138 OldLineTexan

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

Trumped me again!

172 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:45pm

re: #150 Charles

Please. Are you telling me that is a SERIOUS consideration on their part?

173 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:51pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.


What you said.

174 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:04pm

re: #139 nyc redneck

think of the time, energy and money that went into pulling this together and w/ people who know nothing or care nothing abt, science.
i do want to see it. but it will be w/ the feeling that i am witnessing the work of zealots from a distant age.

/kind of like the World's Largest Twine Ball?

175 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:15pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Were they vegan? or just vegetarian...

I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.

Ya' think?

I've whacked two so far.... both real low comment counts.
Let's see if they come back?

176 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:22pm

re: #163 M. Bensson-Levi


As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?


What is your point?

177 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:31pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.


I don't think you mean all creationist, or do you?, because I know I am not now or ever would be.

178 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:38pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

179 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:47pm

re: #134 MandyManners

How does one heckle an inanimate object?

Point and laugh?

180 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:10pm

re: #104 OldLineTexan

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

181 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:41pm

re: #146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How's Ted doing? Anybody hear an update lately?


The same. Still thinks he's Nero.

182 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:45pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

I want my flying car now.

183 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:53pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

My point stands. Lots of money that "could have" been used for some purpose you (or I, or whoever) approve of has been used for lesser purposes.

In the end, it's not my money.

Compared to the magnitude of my tax dollars wasted on thousands of projects that I find disgusting, this (mis)use of private money is a fart in a whirlwind.

184 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:12pm

re: #131 Purple Prose

I can't help but think that if the financiers of this project, as well as dozens of other pointless projects, put their money into real acts of Christian charity, the world would be a better place. What's the point? Where's the Christianity? I don't see any evidence of Christ here, anymore than I see evidence of any noble motives in Muslim creationist efforts. This waste of money and human potential is not religion. It is dogmatism and, in a way, anti-Christian, just obscuring the true message of redemption in Christianity with an irrelevant sideshow.

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being. He spoke of moral truths. If we focused more on moral truths, and less on side shows, maybe we'd have more of a fighting chance against Islamism. Instead, the passion and money of people who obsess about creationist dogmatism is wasted. Instead of engaging in Christian acts of charity or defending the West from Islamism or something that preserves our culture, they misguidedly act to weaken our culture and values and compromise our future.

Christianity is based on facts and history. If Jesus claimed to be-- I AM --the Creator God, and He did--then His priority is not moral teaching. If Adam was a man in History and Christ who is described in Romans 5 as the second Adam came to fix the fall of man in Adam. Death came AFTER Adam sinned. Man is restored to God because Christ died to pay the penalty for the sin of all men in the same way all are condemned in Adam. This is the plan of God to offer eternal life as a free gift to all based on the price being paid by One. This is at the core of True Christian Theology.

185 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:13pm

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

186 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:21pm

Here's what they're saying about vegetarian dinosaurs:
"What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants."
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:36pm

re: #178 calcajun

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

The point I keep making on this issue, is I don't care how He did it. I accept he did it. Do not need the recipe. Do not plan on doing it myself.

188 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:39pm

re: #115 pingjockey

Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

See wizards. Nutjob anti-war crap. But has good anti-nazi/fascist ideas and the best line ever uttered in a film by a great "wizard"

"Let me show you a trick mom taught me when you weren't around!"

189 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:53pm

re: #180 Salamantis

There's more:

Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.

-

A Fish Called Wanda
190 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:55pm

Do UFO's disprove evolution and creationism?

191 BakaRanger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:07pm

One thing that we can all agree on...Eve was pretty hot!

192 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:29pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

It sickens me to think how much the American pubic was duped, by appeals by churches, mosques, charities etc, into funding the friggin JIHADISTS (and their ideological allies) in the weeks and months following 911.

Water under the bridge.

193 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:34pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Sure we do....
On top of each turtles shell he put a padded ring, so the next turtle could balance easily.

194 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:46pm

re: #128 MandyManners

and i thought i had some bad mornings after a good bender!

195 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:49pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

196 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:10pm

Where the hell are dinasours mentioned in the bible, oh thats right they aren't

197 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:25pm

re: #185 Pastorius

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

Come visit me.

198 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:33pm

re: #186 jaunte

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

199 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:45pm

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh c'mon. What are you really going to do with your weekends? Golf?

200 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:19pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

Of course you're working overtime, doing your part to alleviate human suffering.

/it's not publicly funded, attendance isn't mandatory, they can do whatever they want with their money, for all you know they might be prolific charitable givers too

201 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #188 Mars Needs Neocons

See wizards. Nutjob anti-war crap. But has good anti-nazi/fascist ideas and the best line ever uttered in a film by a great "wizard"

"Let me show you a trick mom taught me when you weren't around!"

Exactly.

202 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:34pm

re: #198 paradox42

The veggies were OK. It was the nuts they had to eat.

203 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:34pm

re: #152 Josephine

The posters listing God's Word vs. Human Reasoning.


That's really the core of the issue. They want do do away with reason just like Islam did in the 11th century. They favor scripture and dogma over reason and logic. It's toxic to our culture.

204 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:36pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Wrong. "Real" science does not always have to be repeatable, at least not in the sense you imagine.

How do you define a "credible" explanation for life? Anything that doesn't involve supernatural magic is going to be incredible to you.

To you, since scientists don't know RIGHT NOW exactly how life started naturally and aren't creating life over and over again in the laboratory, they should just give up, throw up their hands, shut down their brains and their curiousity, and say "Goddidit!" Doesn't it ever occur to you that if you applied that attitude to every area of science, science would never have gotten anywhere?

In any event, there are numerous credible hypotheses for how life got started. All you need to begin with is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

205 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:41pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

Wassa' matter, kc8ukw? Can't handle the truth?

206 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:01pm

re: #196 pegcity

perhaps,dosen't the bible mention that at one time giants walked the earth or some such?

207 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #189 calcajun

And more... Steely Dan is not one person, We get fringe benefits, not French benefits, it’s not the Leaning Tower of Pizza, and James Dean was an actor—Jimmy Dean makes sausages.

208 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #2 grumpy old codger

So what? sort of a Jurassic Park thing.

Actually, the Jurassic Park comparison is pretty apt -- since the basic premise of the JP franchise had approximately as much grounding in real-world science as the Creation Museum does. Yet there was an avalanche of quasi-educational tie-in merchandise accompanying the JP movies, which means that a lot of people may have seen the films as entertaining fluff with a small amount of factual content about DNA and genes and prehistoric life. When the reality is that the movies were ONLY entertaining fluff, because the factual content was essentially null -- almost every fact that they could get wrong, they did get wrong.

209 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:14pm

#197 Kansas,
I have spoken with people in Kansas who say this kind of Christianity is pretty rampant in that part of the country.

210 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:21pm

re: #198 paradox42

Like this: [Link: imagecache2.allposters.com...]

211 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:24pm

re: #186 jaunte

Here's what they're saying about vegetarian dinosaurs:
"What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants."
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

Maybe the meat-eating dinos evolved from the vegan ones.

212 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:02pm

re: #120 negativ

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

It's not the same thing! Good grief, what's your problem?

213 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:04pm

re: #198 paradox42

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!

214 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:21pm

re: #109 Crimsonfisted

Gack. Didn't Ralph Bakshi make a movie like that and call it Heavy Metal? I am having visions.

I really liked Ralph Bakshi's Wizards. And we are facing some of the same dark forces these days.

215 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:45pm

re: #185 Pastorius

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

There does seem to be difference between communication in a place like this, and when you are "doing business"with someone. In the latter case one tends to say what one thinks the other party wants to hear, and v.v.

I know people who are at least closet creationists, because they never learned anything about evolution, and don't hang out at internet sites discussing it, but neither do I discuss it with them because we might possible no longer be friends. Condescending on my part perhaps, but nice neighbors can be hard to come by.

216 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:59pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

Why should that stop me from name-calling? I don't have to respect somebody's beliefs just because he or she "honestly" believes them.

217 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:59pm

re: #212 MandyManners

look at his nic.....

218 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:01pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

Yeah, I forgot about the pitchforks...and you're harder to see without the torches...

I'm buying
this Glenn Beck t-shirt when I get paid.

219 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:03pm

re: #183 OldLineTexan

They have the right to spend their money on whatever they want, and I have the right to think they've spent their money in a way that is counterproductive to the interests of enlightenment and decency. Feed and otherwise care for people or spread ignorance- I think they choose poorly.

220 freetoken  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:36pm

re: #86 jaunte

And this, from the wikipedia article: "In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."

Which supports the long running Gallup poll showing 44% currently agreeing to that statement.

221 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:45pm

re: #206 Boondock St. Bender

Thats quite a logic jump, giants to T-Rex

222 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:17pm

re: #212 MandyManners

It's not the same thing! Good grief, what's your problem?

The motives are different, but the pathologies are similar.

223 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:30pm

re: #209 Pastorius

#197 Kansas,
I have spoken with people in Kansas who say this kind of Christianity is pretty rampant in that part of the country.

It is. From the size of the churches around here, there's come pretty good money in it.

224 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:32pm

re: #213 grumpy old codger

Like I said, bad ass vegatables.
Makes as much sense as anything else in this museum.

225 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:37pm

re: #221 pegcity

didn't say i wasn't reaching...lol

226 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:42pm

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

227 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:44pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

An lslamist honestly believes God has commanded him to kill you.

228 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:47pm

re: #218 Palandine

I'm buying
this Glenn Beck t-shirt when I get paid.

Too bad I'm a moron. Linky fixed.

229 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:02pm

re: #220 freetoken

That is a serious commentary on the current state of science education.

230 freetoken  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:34pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA

They moved to Santee many years ago, did they not? Perhaps someday I should drive down there and ask them firsthand on what exactly they did to support Oktar et. al. in Turkey.

231 OldGuard  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:40pm

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

232 bcgirl  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:46pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Truth : and we will not figure it out ever, untill we go to be with HIM,

I am a CHRISTian, meaning i belive in Jesus as God incarnate who died for my many sins and the sins of the world and was crucified and wwas raised 3 three days and lives today in Heaven, ,, oh yea and there is also that virgin birth thing,,,,,,,, if I believe in that, why would I not also believe in the creation of the world in 6 days, and the flood and everything else,, the one thing is though,, GOD's Time is NOT our time.ONLY HE knows.day can be a year or many years, like the above post said, we have not figured it out,, and we never will, it is not for us to know but only God who created us.

sorry that now all you lizards whom i love for these many years will now consider me an idiot and moron and fanatic,, just know there are more of me here and we are praying for us all.

233 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:48pm

re: #228 Palandine

Too bad I'm a moron. Linky fixed.

I am soooo getting one!

234 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:48pm

When are they building the Holocaust Denial Museum, or the KKK history center?

235 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:28pm

re: #206 Boondock St. Bender

perhaps,dosen't the bible mention that at one time giants walked the earth or some such?

It says angels mated with human women and produced giants. Somehow, I don't think that's a reference to dinosaurs.

236 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:32pm

re: #216 Tigger2005

That's true, it would depend on the name. "Liar" would be completely inappropriate. "Fanatic" would be too if it carries a connotation of "irrational."

237 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:38pm

re: #140 Salamantis

I will give you a good example. The clear movement of the scientific community --do not take my word, look into it yourself-- is that the Grand Canyon was form very rapidly with a "flood" of water. This is a clear way in which something that passed for science was simply wrong. Real science can be repeated. That is a fact.

Other examples are when very well established dated strata is found to have a large tree that is vertical some 300 feet. This proves beyond any doubt that the dates were all phony.

238 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:53pm

re: #231 OldGuard

LGF is anti idiotarian period, not anti christian

239 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:11pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Evolutuionary theory is not about the beginning of life, but instead about what happens to randomly mutating already-present life when it is confronted by a nonrandomly selecting surrounding environment.

And we have enough empirical, experimental, repeatable-under-controlled-conditions evidence about that to snap off the iron tines of fleets of front-end loaders.

240 njspeer  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:12pm

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

241 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:14pm

re: #188 Mars Needs Neocons
Had a double feature on the ship. Wizards and The Song Remains the Same.

242 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:15pm

re: #198 paradox42

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

All the veggies had a mega- prefix.

Mega-turnip, mega-asparagus, and the dread 12-foot tall mega-broccoli.

They say dinos ruled the earth, but it was really methane gas.

243 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:20pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Go up and read my #56. It addresses that very question and point.

244 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:24pm

re: #235 Tigger2005

Bestiality?

245 Three Hundred  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:26pm

Havn't they found a raptor or T-Rex with a human skeleton in it's stomach cavity? Thought not.

246 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:29pm

re: #99 Mich-again

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.

I had the same thought after a visit to the Egpytian National Military Museum. Its dioramas of the 1967 and Yom Kippur Wars are ludicrous.

247 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #176 Naso Tang

What is your point?

Merely a reference to the fact that science deniers, WITH THE POWER TO ENFORCE THEIR WILL, burned Nicolaus Copernicus, at the stake for publishing the truth that the earth was not the center of the universe, and, in fact, revolved around the sun.

A bit of dark humor there.

248 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:45pm

re: #226 Mich-again

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

If you are a "Native American" I do believe you can do that with mescaline or similar, and so on and so on. All it takes is one casino millionaire and presto, we can have a museum for that too.

249 Paul  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:15pm

Antediluvian Earth must have been bedlam with brontosaurs, rubbing shoulders with mammoths and paraceratheriums while allosaurs competed with saber tooth tigers and diatrymas for prey. Humans probably lived in caves just to avoid being trampled. Ultimately, extinction was a matter of being unable to find room on the Ark.

250 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:24pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

I'm a Christian but, I also believe in evolution.

251 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:30pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

They have the right to spend their money on whatever they want, and I have the right to think they've spent their money in a way that is counterproductive to the interests of enlightenment and decency. Feed and otherwise care for people or spread ignorance- I think they choose poorly.

I can agree with this simmered-down version, and you are well within your rights to be disappointed in their choices.

I do not want a country where the collective decides what I do...for good or ill.

252 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:51pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian idiot bashing gets old.

More accurate.

253 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:28pm

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

254 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:30pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Or what could have made him want to.

255 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:31pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

From my brain. Obviously you need help ;)

256 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #231 OldGuard

"If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time."
This is the kind of veiled, vague threat that makes religion look bad.

257 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:53pm

re: #231 OldGuard

So your saying that everyone who doesn't believe as you do is going to hell?
ESAD.

258 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #238 pegcity

LGF is anti idiotarian period, not anti christian

DING! DING!

259 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:14pm

re: #237 texasjihad
re: #240 njspeer

what do u mean can't help it?

Its not down syndrome

260 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:50pm

re: #253 MandyManners

House of David used to give out flyers addressing these issues. I never picked one up. I regret that now.

261 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:57pm

re: #226 Mich-again

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

Go for it; again, it's a free country.

/I would put in a big parking lot, and you are going to need drinking fountains for the protestors

262 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:03pm

Oh, and when did opposition to creationism being taught as scientific fact in the public school system become anti-Christian? Don't some Jews also believe in creationism?

263 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:09pm

re: #256 jaunte

"If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time."
This is the kind of veiled, vague threat that makes religion look bad.

Going to hell, all of us. Well, that and all the people going to churches that don't agree with my church.

264 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:26pm

re: #231 OldGuard

You need to go answer my challenge to you in #56.

265 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:33pm

“We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.”
- Bill Hicks

266 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:35pm

i live a moral life. i don't discount god. i give great credence to science.
i'm getting a headache.

267 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:37pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Truth : and we will not figure it out ever, untill we go to be with HIM,

I am a CHRISTian, meaning i belive in Jesus as God incarnate who died for my many sins and the sins of the world and was crucified and wwas raised 3 three days and lives today in Heaven, ,, oh yea and there is also that virgin birth thing,,,,,,,, if I believe in that, why would I not also believe in the creation of the world in 6 days, and the flood and everything else,, the one thing is though,, GOD's Time is NOT our time.ONLY HE knows.day can be a year or many years, like the above post said, we have not figured it out,, and we never will, it is not for us to know but only God who created us.

sorry that now all you lizards whom i love for these many years will now consider me an idiot and moron and fanatic,, just know there are more of me here and we are praying for us all.


Very nicely said...I will join you in the consider me department....
Prayers for you....pray for me.

268 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:40pm

re: #232 bcgirl

you have faith and i repect that.heck i admire it.these threads are really about some in the creationist movement trying to bully their way into public school science classes.

269 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:13:21pm

re: #231 OldGuard
We are not bashing Christians. I am a Christian and I'm not getting bashed. You can't teach faith in public school. Period. End of story.

270 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:13:21pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

A sister. Incest prohibitions and taboos didn't have to go into place until after the time of Noah because the DNA started getting fouled up.

/used to listen to Christian radio. And yes, ick.

271 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #269 pingjockey

We are not bashing Christians. I am a Christian and I'm not getting bashed. You can't teach faith in public school. Period. End of story.

*bash* *bash*

There, now you don't have to feel left out!
/ ;-P

272 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #270 Palandine

guess no one let people in pakistan know that

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:07pm

BTW...my idiots comment was referring to people who beleive that T- and Adam danced the Horah together. Not to creationists in general.

274 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:10pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

Who says people care what others believe as far as faith is concerned AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO PUSH IT DOWN THE REST OF OUR THROATS VIA THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM?

275 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:13pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

276 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:21pm

From their site :

R.K., Teacher, Researcher...MS Biological Science—I am both a scientist and a teacher of science. My expertise is in Biology, and I love the subject matter because of its direct relevance to the teachings of the Bible. I believe that a scientist must take the Bible as fact, and science as support for that fact. This is what I feel seperates secular science from the true science that is all around us in this world. God has created this world wonderfully, and it is an honor for us all to explore its interworkings and to see how great God truly is!

DANGER AHEAD !

Attitudes like this are why we have to fight this nonsense. The scientific method would be revised or discarded for something that "fit" the narrative to this....whatever.
Not very scientific. Not very educating. Teaching kids to stop digging for answers, yeah, that'll make them a helluva lot brighter.

277 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:27pm

re: #133 texasjihad

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

You're believing in something for which no empirical evidence exists over that for which there is scads of scientific evidence all around, and you are actually accusing us of Kool-aid drinking?

Now that's some impressive turnspeak!

278 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:53pm

To move myself back unto firmer ground I would like to ask the room why people see such a need to shoehorn a belief into facts in clearly does not fit? It is hard to change long held beliefs, but T-Rex eating plants?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

279 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:56pm

re: #270 Palandine

A sister. Incest prohibitions and taboos didn't have to go into place until after the time of Noah because the DNA started getting fouled up.

/used to listen to Christian radio. And yes, ick.

I thought she came from a family far away.

280 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:12pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?


The had apples silly.

Where did Cain find his bride?


eHarmony of course.

281 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:12pm

re: #270 Palandine

What about the navels?

282 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:13pm

Do you think that at night, all the exhibits come to life, like in that Ben Stein Stiller movie?

283 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:17pm

re: #237 texasjihad
What? Not the Grand Canyon. That is not true.

284 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:25pm

re: #280 jcm

eHarmony of course.

LOL!

285 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:42pm

re: #169 grumpy old codger

Mossly,
I think you're being too kind overall. Public education SUCKS. We're turning out students who can't multiply, parse a sentence, you name it.
Blaming science only is missing the fact. We've got students who can't locate CA on a map. Unless we turn around the entire system, the result will be the same: Little Johnnie can't do shit but he feels good about himself.

I am a college professor--I have not always been one. Only ten years on and still suffering the shock effects of realizing how incredibly ignorant of history, literature, philosophy, government, science, math--in short, everything--the students are--even at the very fine university where I teach. What's more, they don't want to know. They don't think it's important. It's all about emotion--how they FEEL and what impulse motivates them. One reason I'm not worried about this whole creation debate is just related to this observation--hell, this generation won't learn ID, creationism OR evolution, either. It would be easy to say that the entire younger generation is going to hell in a hand basket (cliche alert), but generations of my ancestors have undoubtedly murmured similar sentiments. However, the problem seems to be growing exponentially. Sigh.

286 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:50pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Not at all. As I said in an earlier post, how God made this place does not affect mt faith in him. It's not a central tenant of my faith. In fact, I don't care.

I have always thought it would have made a good comedy sketch a la Bob Newhart's "phone calls" with Moses taking dictation from God on how the universe was made. Moses is furiously taking down notes on tide pools, amino acids, recombinant DNA, etc., when he looks heavenward and says to God, that if he tries to tell this to a Bronze-Age people, he'll get lynched. "Can I make a suggestion, Lord? One word; allegory! They'll buy that! They'll never go for the technical stuff. "

287 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:58pm
288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:00pm

re: #265 reno911

Anybody who quotes Bill Hicks gets an up-ding from me.

289 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:11pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Russian - mail order.

290 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:28pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

In that case, so much worse for the literal interpretation of Genesis.

But I don't buy your interpretation, and neither do a billion plus Roman Catholics, among many others.

291 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:31pm

Gotta' take a break. My brain hurtz.

292 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:35pm

re: #239 Salamantis

Evolutuionary theory is not about the beginning of life, but instead about what happens to randomly mutating already-present life when it is confronted by a nonrandomly selecting surrounding environment.

And we have enough empirical, experimental, repeatable-under-controlled-conditions evidence about that to snap off the iron tines of fleets of front-end loaders.

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.

293 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:58pm

re: #281 MandyManners

Oh, we're bringing fruit into this now?

294 USA  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:13pm

Marketplace of ideas is open for business. What a great country!

295 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:35pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

296 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:36pm

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I know several Jews--good friends of mine--who at the very least believe in "intelligent design" if not in literal young-earth creationism. It doesn't come up much in day to day conversation, and we don't fight about it. It's their business.

They are unlikely to demand that a public school endorse their views, though they might want to see a religious school do so.

I made sure that The Kid's school doesn't teach that in class but, the Word is taught in chapel.

297 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:47pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

If they weren't willfully ignorant, they couldn't honestly believe what they say, in the face of all of the evidence.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:51pm

re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...my idiots comment was referring to people who believe that T-Rex and Adam danced the Horah together. Not to creationists in general.

Crap, had to fix that. Keyboard going all wacko (certainly can't be my fingers).

299 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:05pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

I think the point was regarding ignorance, and nothing about the desire to help others. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I jump in only because this seems to be a common reaction by many who equate a correction of fact with promoting evil (humanism to you).

300 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:08pm

re: #289 calcajun

Russian - mail order.

Where did the mail carrier come from?

And, was it COD?

301 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:10pm

re: #294 USA

If that's the case, I think this is the scratch and dent section.

302 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:11pm

re: #271 jcm
Thank you! May I have another?!

303 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:35pm

re: #293 calcajun

Oh, we're bringing fruit into this now?


They preceeded people.

304 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:39pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Where did the mail carrier come from?

And, was it COD?

Created On Delivery?

305 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:40pm

re: #281 MandyManners

What about the navels?

My guess would be no, since they were never in a womb. :)

Good Lord, I'm riveted by this missing little girl Kaylee in Florida. They need to lock that entire family up until they tell where that child's body is.

Saturday night, they were interviewing the family lawyer, and he was wearing a Camaro t-shirt.

I fear for Western Civilization, sometimes.

306 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:43pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.

You too.
Go respond to my challenge posted in #56.

307 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:52pm

what i don't understand is this 6000 years nonsense,

the chinese have artifacts dating back thousands of years, are creationists telling me that Chinese people lived with Dinasours?

It's such a eurocentric bunch of B.S. Just cause we can't trace our history back that far dosent meant that some cultures like China didn't exist.

308 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:59pm

re: #275 texasjihad

So you think $27 million to promote this completely ignorant worldview is beneficial to humanity versus spending it on food, clothing and shelters for the needy? Do you honestly think this is what Jesus would want his followers doing with their resources?

309 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:17pm

re: #277 Salamantis

You're believing in something for which no empirical evidence exists over that for which there is scads of scientific evidence all around, and you are actually accusing us of Kool-aid drinking?

Now that's some impressive turnspeak!

What about the where did life come from question? If God did it then why do you think you know better than the Bible HOW HE did. If you do not know where life came from then why don't you go stare at your navel until it comes to you.

310 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:19pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.


WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

311 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:23pm

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I know several Jews--good friends of mine--who at the very least believe in "intelligent design" if not in literal young-earth creationism. It doesn't come up much in day to day conversation, and we don't fight about it. It's their business.

They are unlikely to demand that a public school endorse their views, though they might want to see a religious school do so.

In the 1970's Rabbi Avigdor Miller (Z"L) used to give anti-evolution lectures. He has written some excellent books on Jewish history, but he was way out of his league with the evolution stuff. He used to quote from Velikovsky, along with the selective-quote technique favored by the DI.

312 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:35pm

re: #300 MandyManners

It was a semi-sentient raptor. An early episode of a carrier going "postal".

313 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:41pm
314 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:49pm

re: #307 pegcity

Chinese people lived with Dinasours?

Well, until dinnertime, anyway...

315 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:00pm

re: #307 pegcity

Didn't you know that?

316 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:28pm

re: #184 texasjihad

? Not any that I've ever heard of. Don't paint all christians with the beliefs of your particular sect.

317 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:49pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

That is the sort of pedantry up with which I shall not put.-
Churchill

318 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:49pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

Whine. Whine. Whine. Would you like some cheese with that?

Try being an atheist for a while and get an idea of what being bashed is really like. Talking about "gets old." I got quite a bit of it when I started out on LGF. I don't remember constantly WHINING about it.

"Anti-Christian sentiment..." BULLSHIT. Anti-ignorance sentiment, YES.

And of course, the ever-so-predictable scare statement, reducing religion to a guessing game with unbelievably high stakes. "What's behind door number 1, Drew?"

319 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:53pm

"The entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
The earth is not an energetically isolated system!

320 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:17pm

re: #294 USA

Marketplace of ideas is open for business. What a great country!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

321 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:32pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

What's an evolutionist?

322 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:55pm

And, now. I must go. Got business to tend.

323 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:02pm

re: #191 BakaRanger

One thing that we can all agree on...Eve was pretty hot!

Anyone else remember the original '70s edition of The Joy of Sex, with the pencil-drawings of a shaggy hippie couple gettin' it on? Well, check out the Creation Museum's lifesize diorama of Adam and Eve and tell me it ain't the exact same bearded dude!

(And just like the hippie lady in The Joy of Sex and Darryl Hannah in Splash, Eve is blessed with magical hair that always strategically covers the most interesting stuff.)

324 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:04pm

re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

325 bitsy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:14pm

Like DUH! Dinosaurs were evil so God drowned them.

Those Darwinists almost had me believing all that carbon dating junk. For awhile there, I was worried I might have to learn some chemistry or something to understand the origins of life.

/sarc

326 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:34pm

re: #310 kansas

WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

Same thing as always. Unwillingness to learn anything that contradicts what one learned while breast feeding.

327 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:46pm

re: #154 calcajun

We found a witch! Can we burn her?

Sure you can! In fact, you must!

Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live.
Exodus 22:18

328 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:57pm
329 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:18pm

re: #327 Salamantis

How do you she is a witch?

330 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:27pm

re: #320 MandyManners

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I once saw a big hand-painted sign beside the highway (small highway!) that said "Philosophy lessons $25."

My first professor of Western Civ told us "The university is a marketplace of ideas--don't buy any of them."

331 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:30pm

re: #319 jaunte

"The entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
The earth is not an energetically isolated system!

This is true...on one Creationist site, some guy wrote something like, "For evolution to work, you would have to huge amounts of energy being poured onto the planet at all times. Where is that coming from?"

Someone told him to step outside during the daytime and look up.

332 AndyMacOP  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:59pm

For the love of God! This is what happens when you cross religion with stupidity.

FWTW: One of the most basic universal truths of a (reasonable) religious person is knowing the fact that God neither deceives nor is deceived. Creating an earth that is actually 6,000 years old BUT appears, through simple observation, to be millions of years old flies in the face all that a person of faith, especially a Christian, holds dear. I won't say this about a Muslim though, because a part of what I know about their theology is that God can darn well do whatever He wants to for no good reason at all, or for the simple reason of deceiving human beings. YE Christians have apparently taken a big swig of that Kool-Aid.

333 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:02pm

re: #310 kansas
Ya beat me to it. They are fixated on the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

334 kevinmumaw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:02pm

OT: A jaw-dropping political miracle may be on the horizon.

It's about Murtha. I think he's going down this year. You know what I call that? Sweet.

335 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:04pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

You have no idea what you talk about.
Waving your brush in broad strokes to deal with everything you disagree with leads not to knowledge but continued ignorance.

336 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:18pm

re: #329 paradox42

How do you she is a witch?

Well....

If she weighs the same as a duck
then she's made of wood.

And therefore?

A witch!

337 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:23pm

re: #201 Crimsonfisted

I loved that. Getting ready for this huge wizard battle, then BLAM!

338 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:23pm

re: #297 Salamantis

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

339 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:49pm

re: #310 kansas

WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

It is key to a Christian world view. It also is clearly a complicating factor to the idea that random things tend to result in improvement.

340 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:49pm

re: #324 texasjihad

Evolution isn't intantaneous. The difference in the time scales is vast.
That (Hoyle) idea has been debunked many times.

341 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:02pm
342 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:15pm

re: #286 calcajun

I have always thought it would have made a good comedy sketch a la Bob Newhart's "phone calls" with Moses taking dictation from God on how the universe was made. Moses is furiously taking down notes on tide pools, amino acids, recombinant DNA, etc., when he looks heavenward and says to God, that if he tries to tell this to a Bronze-Age people, he'll get lynched. "Can I make a suggestion, Lord? One word; allegory! They'll buy that! They'll never go for the technical stuff. "

Visionary. Absolutely visionary! Really funny notion.

343 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:28pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

In the Roman world the sick were sometimes thrown out of home by family members who feared catching the disease. Unwanted children were thrown out or sold. Widows had to fend for themselves. One of the main reasons Christianity spread was that Christians were the only people who would consistently help. Hospitals and orphanages were originally started by Christians. Dealing with the sick, unwanted and impoverished is difficult. It is much easier to try to win hearts with an impersonal museum or a school curriculum based on creationism Intelligent Design. The only problem is that impersonal rarely (never?) works.

344 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:54pm

re: #163 M. Bensson-Levi

re: #132 Naso Tang

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

Levi: As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?

I believe that it actually has to do with Ptolemy and his bizarrely elaborate geocentrism-justifying epicycles.

345 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:57pm

re: #335 gman

You have no idea what you talk about.
Waving your brush in broad strokes to deal with everything you disagree with leads not to knowledge but continued ignorance.

And you provide so much light? Gimme a brake.

346 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:03pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

I've always wondered whether God surprised when Eve ate the apple, or did he know it would happen all along?

If he knew it would happen all along, does that Eve had no free will?

347 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:10pm

re: #316 Mars Needs Neocons

OOPS SORRY.

texasjihad

Registered since: May 18, 2007 at 7:12 pm
No. of comments posted: 16
No. of links posted: 0

You've just been waiting for something like this. No one is going to convince you of anything.

348 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:20pm

re: #334 kevinmumaw

OT: A jaw-dropping political miracle may be on the horizon.

It's about Murtha. I think he's going down this year. You know what I call that? Sweet.

Kev, you made my evening! Thanks!

349 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:34pm

I'm gettin' really, really tired of coming to these threads and nobody telling Charles what not to post! I so looked forward to that.

350 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:49pm
351 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:59pm

re: #241 pingjockey

Don't know the second one.

352 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:27:03pm

re: #327 Salamantis

Well, I guess it sucks to be a Wiccan in Appalachia.

353 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:27:14pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

You do not comprehend chemicals very well, do you?

Tornadoes are not electrical impulses.

Auto salvage yards are not chemicals.

Automobiles are not cells.

The short violence of a tornado is not 100 million years.

You are not in your league.

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

354 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:06pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones

Sorry but i believe that you have to be off the charts retarded to believe this nonsense.

355 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:53pm

Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy:

The name comes from a fictitious Texas "sharpshooter" who fires a gun into the side of a barn, then draws a bullseye around the bullet hole. Though the shot may have been totally random, he makes it appear as though he has performed a highly non-random act. In normal target practice, the bullseye defines a region of significance, and there's a low probability of hitting it by firing in a random direction. However, when the region of significance is determined after the event has occurred, any outcome at all can be made to appear spectacularly improbable.

This probability appears commonly in creationist arguments that the evolution of a particular biological structure, like a given protein sequence, is some outrageously small number. Hence, they infer that the probability of its formation was low. This is fallacious because it assumes that evolution had the goal of producing that particular structure. This argument is also frequently applied to abiogenesis. This argument is also frequently used to claim how "unlikely" the cosmos formed by "accident."

356 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:53pm

Since ya'll are paying attention, the young earth creationists that is. Instead of just directing you I'll repost it.

To all YEC'ers. Get an Interlinear Bible. A Strong's Concordance. Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.

In Gen. 1:2 (Amplified Bible)
The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.

You will find the word was is more properly rendered became.

In the six days of creation the Hebrew word is yowm. Yowm can have different meanings depending on context.

And finally...
Psalm 89:14 (Amplified Bible)
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and loving-kindness and truth go before Your face.
John 17:17 (Amplified Bible)
Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth
Deuteronomy 32:4 (Amplified Bible)
He is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are law and justice. A God of faithfulness without breach or deviation, just and right is He.

Given these verses explain how God whose work is perfect, whose Word is truth, whose authority is founded on his righteousness could place falsehoods in His creation. Because when you claim that the earth is 6000 yo that's what you are claiming.

357 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:02pm

re: #210 jaunte

Like this: [Link: imagecache2.allposters.com...]

WTF is it with all the damn sleepers around here lately?

358 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:15pm

re: #342 M. Bensson-Levi

Thanks for the props. Been wanting to set that down for years.

359 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:19pm

re: #349 theparson

I'm gettin' really, really tired of coming to these threads and nobody telling Charles what not to post! I so looked forward to that.

Is that a dare? ;-) Why don't YOU do it! Double dare ya.

360 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:26pm

re: #324 texasjihad
re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

Well, when I read "The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system" I figured right away that Jaunte thinks that if a tornado passes over a salvage yard that will eventually result in the building of a perfect car. My bet is you heard that from a guy who was prancing about a stage and saying GEEEEEEEESUS.

361 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:32pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

I don't profess to have a clue. I'm not omiscient and all knowing. Here's a clue: neither are you.

362 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:48pm

re: #354 pegcity

That's not fair, people who are retarted can't help the way they are. These people choose ignorance. Its not the same.

363 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:52pm

re: #354 pegcity

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones


People + Dinasours = The Flinestones
The Flintstones + Feet-driven car = Al Gore

We have come full circle I see.

364 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:54pm

re: #354 pegcity

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones

Sorry but i believe that you have to be off the charts retarded to believe this nonsense.

Dude, no offense, but if you're gonna fling "retarded", use spell check.

/just a friendly tip

365 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:40pm

re: #362 paradox42

Oh, I cannot let that one pass. That's a wee bit arrogant of you, don't you think?

366 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:52pm

re: #351 Mars Needs Neocons
What? You heathen. It is a Led Zeppelin concert movie.

367 Jim D  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:59pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

Charles and many other have shown quite conclusively that they are indeed trying to deceive people. They try to deceive us by propagating lies about science, deliberate misquotes of respected scientists, and in their attempts to get religion taught as science in our schools.

368 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:12pm

re: #324 texasjihad

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

A tornado is a highly organized storm, as is a hurricane. How's that possible?

In any case, your analogy is easily destroyed. Like all creationists, you conveniently leave out natural selection when it suits you.

If you had a mechanism wherein, every time a tornado passed over the junkyard, anytime one car part landed near an adjacent part those parts were bolted down so the next tornado couldn't move them, after a while you would, in fact, get something resembling a car.

In nature, this mechanism is called natural selection. It is not random.

And no scientist proposes that amoebas just popped into existence fully formed. Rather, amoebas had much simpler ancestors...and those ancestors had even simpler ancestors. All you need for evolution to get started is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

369 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:18pm

re: #359 katemaclaren

Is that a dare? ;-) Why don't YOU do it! Double dare ya.

Ha! You coulda had me with a triple dare! Too late now.

370 Rockman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:40pm

The Flintstones was a ground breaking documentary...

371 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:57pm

Charles,

This post seems to have drawn more than the normal amount of ID proponents, any speculations as to why?


/ YEC'ers have become an embarrasment to DI...

372 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:07pm

Oh shoot I dinged down #367 by mistake.

373 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:14pm
374 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:57pm

re: #354 pegcity

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

375 kevinmumaw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:33:19pm

re: #348 katemaclaren

My pleasure, it's hard to rock as hard as I do. JK, but I really think this is going to happen. I was in a political science class back in 1994 and we had to fill out a form for our prediction for the 94 elections. I was the only one out of about 150 that said Mario Cuomo would lose re-election for Governor of New York and my professor laughed at me when I turned in my sheet. Of course, Mario was defeated in 1994. And Murtha is going down in 2008.

376 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:33:32pm

re: #184 texasjihad

Christianity is based on facts and history. If Jesus claimed to be-- I AM --the Creator God, and He did--then His priority is not moral teaching. If Adam was a man in History and Christ who is described in Romans 5 as the second Adam came to fix the fall of man in Adam. Death came AFTER Adam sinned. Man is restored to God because Christ died to pay the penalty for the sin of all men in the same way all are condemned in Adam. This is the plan of God to offer eternal life as a free gift to all based on the price being paid by One. This is at the core of True Christian Theology.

Yeah, I've seen people try to drag a literal acceptance of the Adam & Eve myth in on Jesus' garment hems before. It doesn't wash. Unless you are willing to believe that a woman was the original Adamic tempter, and, worse than that, dumb enough to be seduced into evilly persuading Adam to gobble the forbidden goodie with her by a talking snake.

377 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:10pm

I don't remember any dinosaurs in the Bible, I think this museum a was influenced more by old Flintstones re-runs than by science or the book of Genesis.

378 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:47pm

re: #353 texasjihad
No idea. My faith tells me the universe was created. That doesn't mean the Supreme being didn't set down the properties for life and let it do its thing over time. The Universe is somewhere around 14 billion years old. That is a lot of time for anything and everything to exist.

379 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:59pm

re: #330 katemaclaren

I once saw a big hand-painted sign beside the highway (small highway!) that said "Philosophy lessons $25."

My first professor of Western Civ told us "The university is a marketplace of ideas--don't buy any of them."

Popping back in briefly.

To me, the marketplace is all about exchange.

380 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:15pm

re: #360 kansas

re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

Well, when I read "The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system" I figured right away that Jaunte thinks that if a tornado passes over a salvage yard that will eventually result in the building of a perfect car. My bet is you heard that from a guy who was prancing about a stage and saying GEEEEEEEESUS.

My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either.

381 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:20pm
382 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:25pm

re: #131 Purple Prose

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being.

Here Purple Prose.

383 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:37pm

re: #314 OldLineTexan

Chinese people lived with Dinosaurs?

Well, until dinnertime, anyway...

A Chinese (or, technically, a Taiwanese-American immigrant) co-worker once quoted to me a joke that the Chinese have about their own cuisine: "We Chinese eat everything with legs except a table, and everything with wings except an airplane."

At least, I think it was meant jokingly...

384 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:45pm

re: #369 theparson

Well, DANG!

385 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:49pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

LOL believe us, we know a hell of a lot more about creationism and I.D. than you know about evolution. It's not like there's a whole lot there to study...Ben Stein's movie "Expelled" pretty much covered the creationist/I.D. "explanations" and "evidence."

And it doesn't matter if these people aren't dumb or ignorant, they are still wrong. Sometimes, the very smart and very wrong people are the scariest, because they really have to twist their brains into pretzels and compartmentalize, compartmentalize, compartmentalize to maintain their belief systems.

386 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:08pm

Now where did these folks ever get the idea that dinosaurs were around in Noah's day?

I distinctly recall from Genesis that Noah was instructed to gather

"two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive."

Genesis 6:19-20

If dinosaurs died out in the Flood, or indeed if any species died out, Noah would have disobeyed God's commandment. If Noah was faithful, the Flood should not have caused any extinctions...

387 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:17pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

I'm waiting for the New Flintstones--the post-Modern Stone Age Family--to come out.

That would be Al and Tipper.

388 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:18pm

re: #344 Salamantis

OK.

389 meeshlr  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:37pm

re: #32 grumpy old codger

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

I don't believe that we should ignore everything that we might perceive of as a "lesser threat" than Islamist terrorists. Am I in any imminent danger from the creationists or intelligent design proponents? No. Does that mean that it's not worth talking about? Absolutely not.

That creationists and Young Earthers present their beliefs as scientific fact in a museum setting is troubling. Picture a child who has been to that museum returning to their class and passing along the "truth" that they learned on summer vacation. I don't want that in my children's classroom. Presenting religious doctrine as scientific fact is dangerous. Obviously not the same kind of danger as a terrorist but, honestly, it has a greater impact on my day-to-day life as a mother.

As a related aside, I want to read about Islamist threats, Obama's latest gaffe, creationists inroads into our schools, and what book I should read next. I find all of that in blogs and the presence of lighter topics doesn't diminish the more serious ones. If I'm not interested in something, I just page down.

390 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:42pm

re: #377 Ringo the Gringo

well if your premise is that the earth is 6000 years old,you gotta explain away all those pesky fossils folks are always digging up.either they co-existed with man,or god is playing practical jokes.

391 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:49pm

re: #374 kc8ukw

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

I think you already do read that, but so far you are not sure of the differences.

//

392 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:57pm
393 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:04pm

re: #376 Salamantis

Yeah, I've seen people try to drag a literal acceptance of the Adam & Eve myth in on Jesus' garment hems before. It doesn't wash. Unless you are willing to believe that a woman was the original Adamic tempter, and, worse than that, dumb enough to be seduced into evilly persuading Adam to gobble the forbidden goodie with her by a talking snake.

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:11pm

re: #370 Rockman

The Flintstones was a ground breaking documentary...

"Barney Rubble, what an actor"

Line from the movie, "Night Shift"

395 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:42pm

re: #383 Throbert McGee

A Chinese (or, technically, a Taiwanese-American immigrant) co-worker once quoted to me a joke that the Chinese have about their own cuisine: "We Chinese eat everything with legs except a table, and everything with wings except an airplane."

At least, I think it was meant jokingly...

I have been once, and ate a few odd things.

/I was least impressed with jellyfish (chew some plastic) and sea cucumber (chew some newspaper soaked in water for a week).

396 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:59pm

re: #380 texasjihad
Well, I can't speak for Kansas, but I can't recall Jesus every personally asking me a question.

397 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:14pm

re: #321 Tigger2005

What's an evolutionist?


Thre: #380 texasjihad

My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either.



I do not like for Jesus to ask me questions? Next time we have a meeting, I'll let you know.

398 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:39pm

re: #356 jcm

One, I'm not a YEC.
Two, I know your heart is in the right place but you miss the several points of the scriptures you cite.

The portion dealing with creation is Moses attempt to understand the majesty that is God and the wonder that is this world.
God's throne is not found on this earth.
Jesus was praying that, in His absence, His followers would become consecrated to Him.
And, finally, the writer was not talking about creation but about the righteousness and judgements of God.

399 AndyMacOP  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:48pm

re: #390 Boondock St. Bender

well if your premise is that the earth is 6000 years old,you gotta explain away all those pesky fossils folks are always digging up.either they co-existed with man,or god is playing practical jokes.

Yes, please read my whole post #332.

400 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

I THINK LIFE AROSE WHEN PRIMORDIAL LONG-CHAIN PROTEINS WERE SUDDENLY HIT WITH THE SHOCK OF CAPS LOCK

401 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #393 texasjihad

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

To quote an often quoted argument from your side of the fence; I wasn't there to see or hear it, so there is no way to state that it really happened.

402 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:22pm
403 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:56pm

re: #204 Tigger2005

All you need to begin with is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

Great! Now how did that happen?

404 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:28pm

re: #400 Occasional Reader

I THINK LIFE AROSE WHEN PRIMORDIAL LONG-CHAIN PROTEINS WERE SUDDENLY HIT WITH THE SHOCK OF CAPS LOCK

I feel something stirring now...

405 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:39pm

re: #308 Sharmuta

So you think $27 million to promote this completely ignorant worldview is beneficial to humanity versus spending it on food, clothing and shelters for the needy? Do you honestly think this is what Jesus would want his followers doing with their resources?


That can be a yes and no answer.
yes if it is spreading the word, as a christian is suppose to do, and no if they have not used other monies to help others. I don't know if they charge a fee or accept donations from those that come to tour, and if they do collect monies , what they do with it. It may be that they use the funds received, if any, to do the good deeds you refer to.

406 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:56pm

re: #354 pegcity

And just to clarify my own position - I am always inclined to read the Bible as literally as possible, (unless it is speaking otherwise... ahem.) I think that interpretation leads to AIG style creationism. But I also recognize that the Bible records many examples of, for example, prophecies that were fulfilled - but not in the way a literal reader would naturally expect. So I also don't, um, usually go around arguing with Christians who believe in some other sort of creationism (you'd better put God somewhere though), and I certainly don't think a young earth creationism belief is necessary for salvation.

407 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:00pm

re: #402 buzzsawmonkey

Would you care to provide a cite for that Jesus quote?

I think Jesus talks to TJ. Might be a sign of dementia.

408 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:00pm

Well, guys, I have to hit the hay. See you tomorrow when we'll see what "fresh new hell awaits us." (not a perfect quote from Dorothy Parker, but close enough).

409 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:34pm

re: #51 Mich-again

I see that the theological point has already been made.

What the genetic evidence should show, then, is a massive population crash in all species simultaneously, as evidenced by an extreme restriction of genetic diversity.

Go at it, IDers...

410 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:59pm

re: #358 calcajun

Thanks for the props. Been wanting to set that down for years.

Do it! Just channel Bob Newhart, and do it. Even if you do it poorly, which I doubt, it'll be great. The concept is a howler.

Do it, and post it here. We'll all laugh.

Hell, I may steal the idea from you and do it myself!

411 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:05pm

re: #393 texasjihad

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

False dichotomy, similar to C.S. Lewis' "lord, liar, or lunatic" fallacy. Jesus could have been mistaken, or honestly believed what most other Jews at that time probably believed.

You're also making the assumption that Salamantis shares your view that Jesus is the omniscient Creator of the Universe in human form. If he doesn't, your argument is pretty meaningless.

It's debatable whether Jewish scholars believed Genesis to be literally true, by the way. If they did why did they include two different creation stores in the Pentateuch? Most Jewish scholars today certainly don't regard Genesis as literally true, and it is their scripture, after all.

412 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:28pm
413 deesine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:37pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

It is nuts, for two reasons that I can see. 1) The us v.s. them (persecution) complex runs very very big in many strains of Protestant Christianity. There's almost an unwritten rule in these spheres that whatever can be labeled "of this world" will be diametrically opposed. 2) Magical thinking. Adults who embrace this type of thinking are having a bumpy time in their developmental transition from a primarily mythologically based spirituality to a rational spirituality.

I can remember well hearing my aunt 19 years ago tell me how the Earth is only ~6,000 years old. Wow. That was during my atheist phase and I really didn't know where to begin. These threads have been incredibly enlightening and useful in this regard: I will not be avoiding this topic at our next family get together.

About the co-existence of man and dinos: "Satan has been given dominion over Earth. Are you saying that Satan can't do something so simple as create old bones?" It's a mythological stance, through and through. You are accepted and saved only by believing the myths, not because of any pneumaticism, awakening, or "spirit aliveness" you may have experienced or exhibit.

-

414 ratherdashing  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:39pm

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

415 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:43:56pm

re: #412 buzzsawmonkey

Just as long as you don't stop twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

416 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:14pm

This seems like a good time for more Bill Hicks.

“I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.”

417 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:18pm

OK Everyone -

On this thread - "NYTOL!"

-S-

418 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:19pm

re: #412 buzzsawmonkey

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

419 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:20pm

re: #414 ratherdashing

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

Do I really?

/I did not know that about myself
//channeling Ron White

420 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:34pm
421 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:36pm

re: #345 texasjihad

And you provide so much light? Gimme a brake.

Fundamentalist Religions love to paint everyone outside of their membership as sinners that will burn in hell.

Why do they use such a broad brush to paint everyone else as sinners?

I believe like Purple Prose mentioned above that we need to focus on Jesus' message of love. That to me is what life is all about. To love and be loved.

The fundamentalist paradigm of "our congregation vs. the rest of the world" is just a fear tactic to fill the pews. It is not based on Jesus' message of love.

422 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:48pm

re: #343 David IV of Georgia

In the Roman world the sick were sometimes thrown out of home by family members who feared catching the disease. Unwanted children were thrown out or sold. Widows had to fend for themselves. One of the main reasons Christianity spread was that Christians were the only people who would consistently help. Hospitals and orphanages were originally started by Christians. Dealing with the sick, unwanted and impoverished is difficult. It is much easier to try to win hearts with an impersonal museum or a school curriculum based on creationism Intelligent Design. The only problem is that impersonal rarely (never?) works.

I think the more important aspect of Christianity is compassion for our fellow man/woman, yet this seems to be lost on those who insist on literal creation. Insisting that I must reject the use of my God given reason instead of promoting Divine compassion is, imo, a disservice to God and a poor way to go about promoting the Faith of Christianity.

423 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:49pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

Ambiguous question, showing your ignorance of the discussion to-date.

Accepting that God set everything in motion does NOT require that God suddenly disallowed evolution. Accepting that God DID IT ALL, or CREATED LIFE is a FINE, RIGHTEOUS assertion, but it is NOT HELPFUL scientifically.

"We've got some anomalies with the para-2-di-amino chains, Doctor."

"No problem, God makes them do that."

"Oh. Okay."

Science and Religion can function in harmony, Texas, if we but allow God to have done it correctly, as the All-Knowing, the All-Loving.

424 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:54pm

Materialism: Admission to the Creation Museum is $19.95.
Of course the Museum has 160 employees, so there might not be much left over after they and the power bill is paid.

425 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:47:04pm

Don't let GOTC see that last post.

426 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:07pm

re: #414 ratherdashing

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

Your sweeping indictment of Christians ignores many of the posts on all of these type threads and does an injustice to many non thiests.
You many say "Some", "Many", "A lot" and etc.
I do not fear any such "chipping away". I am quite confident in my Christianity and enjoy reading and hearing alternative opinions.

427 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:12pm

re: #398 theparson

One, I'm not a YEC.
Two, I know your heart is in the right place but you miss the several points of the scriptures you cite.

The portion dealing with creation is Moses attempt to understand the majesty that is God and the wonder that is this world.
God's throne is not found on this earth.
Jesus was praying that, in His absence, His followers would become consecrated to Him.
And, finally, the writer was not talking about creation but about the righteousness and judgements of God.

Scripture is a whole, one continuous tapestry, with a single thread running through each and every verse of the entire Bible. You are correct in your interpretation, but there is also the larger context in which you have to reconcile everything in the Bible. God authority is based on his unfailing righteousness, His Word every one is Truth, and his Works all of them are perfect.

428 right_on_target  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:19pm

The problem is is that someone will want to out do this Craetionist Museum and build a bigger, more elaborate one.
I'm glad that from the Flickr "Needless to say, our American Association of Museum membership cards did us no good there,"
quote lets us know that this is a "museum" that gets no official recognition.

429 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:21pm

re: #414 ratherdashing

That's pretty presumptuous to say the least. There are over 2 billion Christians on this planet, and I highly doubt you know how they all think.

430 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:45pm

re: #420 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not going to get that personal; I simply do not recall any citation from the Gospels in which Jesus said anything about Genesis as such. If texasjihad has that at his fingertips, he should share.

Well, he said to me "My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either." What else to think? Jesus does not ask me questions. But if you think thats out of bounds, well, I respect your opinions on this thread.

431 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:52pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

Yep, this is just as I have been maintaining. A lot of these people are tossing intellection out the window and embracing empirically impossible myths for visceral emotional reasons. It feels good to them, so they do it.

In my opinion, such choices are hedonistic and nihilistic, rather than being authentically spiritual.

BTW: I am not going to be browbeaten by Pascal's Wager into reducing this life - the only one of which I am absolutely certain - into a thralled appendage of a believed-in next. For if I took such advice, and did not strive to achieve what I want to achieve in this life, but instead rolled the dice and gambled it all away on the promise of a bigger pot that turned out to not exist, I would have terminally screwed over and forsaken and abandoned myself and my own one and only life.

432 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:49:29pm

It would be kind of cool if we had allosaurs running around, though. Talk about "the most dangerous game". What would you load for allosaur?

433 tradewind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:49:39pm

re: #24 Palandine

Hey, what are ya'll trying to do, ruin our local economy here in Melvis? This city needs every buck it can rake in, and if the faithful quit making the haj to Graceland every August, we're losing tax dollars!

434 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:50:11pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

Kung Fu? (Sorry, just finished watching The Matrix.)

435 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:50:13pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

It would be kind of cool if we had allosaurs running around, though. Talk about "the most dangerous game". What would you load for allosaur?

Do I have to be able to carry the gun by myself?

436 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:51:12pm

re: #427 jcm

Scripture is a whole, one continuous tapestry, with a single thread running through each and every verse of the entire Bible. You are correct in your interpretation, but there is also the larger context in which you have to reconcile everything in the Bible. God authority is based on his unfailing righteousness, His Word every one is Truth, and his Works all of them are perfect.

Except for YOU KNOW WHO, and he knows who he is!

437 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:51:37pm
438 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:51:43pm

re: #403 IRQ Conflict

Great! Now how did that happen?

And if I can't tell you right now, it's some kind of big win for "your side," right? As I said, if scientists (and human thinkers and questioners throughout history) had taken your attitude, we would still be living in caves.

Over and over and ove and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time, scientists have shown that things once ascribed to the activity of spirits and magic have natural explanations related to electromagnetism, chemistry, and physics. What reason do you have to think that in THIS case, there will be an exception? I think the chances are pretty good scientists will eventually figure this one out too. If your way of thinking prevails in this country, though, I doubt it will be American scientists who do it.

439 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:51:53pm

re: #236 kc8ukw

That's true, it would depend on the name. "Liar" would be completely inappropriate. "Fanatic" would be too if it carries a connotation of "irrational."

To maintain an empirically impossible position in the face of conclusive counterfactual evidence is the very definition of irrational.

440 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:51:57pm

re: #354 pegcity

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones

Sorry but i believe that you have to be off the charts retarded to believe this nonsense.

I'm convinced that Ken Ham and his associates have synthesized their "body of faith" as they have for precisely that reason, in order that they be seen as harmless nutcases by the vast majority of the public. Meanwhile, their political clout grows, as does their various international alliances and sources of funding.

441 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:09pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

I'm thinking Dylan.

442 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:12pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

It would be kind of cool if we had allosaurs running around, though. Talk about "the most dangerous game". What would you load for allosaur?

Anything larger than 7.62, that's for sure. Elephant gun with mushrooming tips, center of mass shots only. No head shots. Have you seen how thick those skulls are? The brain is too small a target to destroy as well. :)

443 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:38pm

re: #427 jcm

Scripture is a whole, one continuous tapestry, with a single thread running through each and every verse of the entire Bible. You are correct in your interpretation, but there is also the larger context in which you have to reconcile everything in the Bible. God authority is based on his unfailing righteousness, His Word every one is Truth, and his Works all of them are perfect.

I agree. However, the truth in whole is not diminished by each individual subjective truth.

444 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:49pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

RPG

445 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:54pm
* Jesus told the Pharisees in Mark 10:6, “But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.” Not billions of years after the beginning of creation. * Jesus says in Luke 11:50-51, “:so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Able to the blood of Zechariah:” Jesus obviously believed his first prophet, Able, was there at the beginning — the foundation of the world. Not billions of years after it had been set into motion. * Jesus also said of Satan in John 8:44, “He was a murderer from the beginning,” making reference to Cain’s murder of his brother Able. * Jesus prophesies about the tribulation in Mark 13:19, “For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of creation that God created until now.” According to Jesus, there has been some measure of tribulation since the beginning. If man didn’t enter the picture until billions of years after the beginning, then what was the object of this tribulation? * Paul writes to the Romans in 1:20, “For his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world.” First, for the attributes to have been perceived from creation there must have been someone to perceive them. Secondly, this is another passage that supports the idea that the creation is there to point us to God. Why have it sit undergoing mindless processes for billions of years before man is on the scene to marvel at it? * I Peter 1:20 and Revelation 13:8, 17:8 speak of the Lamb that was slain or the names that were written in the Lamb’s Book of Life from the foundation of the world. What purpose could God have in billions of years of death and decay before his redemptive plan for man was set into motion. The elect were obviously elected from the foundation, why wait?
446 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:52:57pm

Christianity is based on facts and history.

That Christianity arose among the followers of Jesus following his death at the hands of the Romans is a matter of historical fact, yes. Christianity as a belief system cannot be empirically verified apart from the narratives in the New Testament.

If Jesus claimed to be-- I AM --the Creator God, and He did--then His priority is not moral teaching.

If one is willing to accept the testimony of the Gospel authors, the testimony of subsequent writers and two millennia of sacred tradition (I do) then one is willing to accept that Jesus of Nazareth was neither a liar nor a madman but, indeed, who he said he was. Nevertheless, this acceptance is an act of faith - nothing more or less - and beyond either the reach or the grasp of empirical science.

Creationism - while understandable in the context of the wretched state of public education in the U.S. today - is folderal, plain and simple, and has no place in the halls of science.

My two cents.

447 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:53:33pm

re: #374 kc8ukw

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

One little problem, evolution is science.

448 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:53:54pm

re: #366 pingjockey

What? You heathen. It is a Led Zeppelin concert movie.

Ick, Never liked LZ all sounds the same to me.

449 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:06pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

It would be kind of cool if we had allosaurs running around, though. Talk about "the most dangerous game". What would you load for allosaur?

/RPG-7

450 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:08pm

re: #438 Tigger2005

And if I can't tell you right now, it's some kind of big win for "your side," right?

Not at all my friend. But I do oppose teaching an unknown as fact.

451 ratherdashing  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:10pm

re: #419 OldLineTexan

re: #426 theparson

re: #429 paradox42

Good enough. Some Christians fear the chipping away of their foundational beliefs.


/ I'm a Christian. My daughter has been to the Creation Museum.

452 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:21pm

re: #431 Salamantis


BTW: I am not going to be browbeaten by Pascal's Wager into reducing this life - the only one of which I am absolutely certain - into a thralled appendage of a believed-in next. For if I took such advice, and did not strive to achieve what I want to achieve in this life, but instead rolled the dice and gambled it all away on the promise of a bigger pot that turned out to not exist, I would have terminally screwed over and forsaken and abandoned myself and my own one and only life.

I have trouble believing that Pascal was serious in proposing this wager. It makes little sense in consideration of his real achievements.

453 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:39pm

There is a consistent theme running through these exhibits if you read the signs. The theme is anti-reason, anti-science.

454 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:54:51pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader
Well that one fool was gonna use a .500 Nitro express on a T-Rex. I think I'd use a LAWS rocket.

455 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:55:17pm

re: #437 buzzsawmonkey

Kansas City Allosaur steaks! They come in a plain brown box, or gift-raptor!


THAT would have been the first product of Jurassic Park. Not some wonky tour in a robot Jeep.

456 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:55:38pm

re: #237 texasjihad

I will give you a good example. The clear movement of the scientific community --do not take my word, look into it yourself-- is that the Grand Canyon was form very rapidly with a "flood" of water. This is a clear way in which something that passed for science was simply wrong. Real science can be repeated. That is a fact.

Obviously, you have major problems correctly determining facticity:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The longstanding scientific consensus has been that the canyon was created by the Colorado River over a period of six million years, but research released in 2008 suggests a much longer 17 million year time span.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Other examples are when very well established dated strata is found to have a large tree that is vertical some 300 feet. This proves beyond any doubt that the dates were all phony.

Let's see a linky for that assertion, too, please; I'm in a debunking mood.

457 twincitiesgirl  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:55:54pm

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. If this is their idea of attracting more people to Christ they have sadly missed the mark. What they have done is make it much less likely that will happen.

/an intelligent Christian isn't an oxymoron

458 tradewind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:56:52pm

re: #439 Salamantis

Isn't that kind of the same thing that Isabella's court Flat Earth geographers used to try to talk her out of funding Columbus?
Just saying that science has been/ is a fairly fluid discipline throughout man's history.

459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:07pm

re: #448 Mars Needs Neocons

Ick, Never liked LZ all sounds the same to me.

Well, the song remains the same.

460 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:15pm

re: #448 Mars Needs Neocons

Ick, Never liked LZ all sounds the same to me.

That's just so sad. RocknRoll sounds like Houses of the Holy sounds like Stairway to Heaven sounds like Black Dog sounds like Misty Mountain Hop? You need to listen again.

461 formercorpsman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:16pm

Check out Drudge

462 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:22pm

re: #448 Mars Needs Neocons
Like I said a heathen. :)

463 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:32pm
man and dinosaurs once coexisted.

Man and the dinosaur media coexist.

464 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:35pm

re: #448 Mars Needs Neocons

Ick, Never liked LZ all sounds the same to me.

Oh come on

/breaking my YouTube protest

465 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:53pm

It's a free country, but seeing that slide show made me sad. When you take a child to a museum it should not be child abuse.

466 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:57:54pm

re: #448 Mars Needs Neocons

Ick, Never liked LZ all sounds the same to me.

Bite.your.tongue.

/LZ fan :)

467 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:58:05pm

re: #400 Occasional Reader

I THINK LIFE AROSE WHEN PRIMORDIAL LONG-CHAIN PROTEINS WERE SUDDENLY HIT WITH THE SHOCK OF CAPS LOCK

Do you think this is science of faith?

468 obwon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:58:11pm

re: #196 pegcity

Where the hell are dinasours mentioned in the bible, oh thats right they aren't

Isaiah 30:6, Job 40:15-24, Job 41:1-34

469 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:58:24pm

re: #461 formercorpsman

Interesting. Early there.

470 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:58:24pm

If we apply the "you have to be able to carry it yourself" rule, I'd think something like this might do the trick.

471 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:58:43pm

Why must so many Christians cling to the belief that Christianity and Evolution must be mutually exclusive?

473 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:59:21pm

re: #443 theparson

I agree. However, the truth in whole is not diminished by each individual subjective truth.

Absolutely. My underlying point to YECer's is they don't reconcile creation to the Creator. Instead of doing that they cling to misinterpretations, poor Biblical scholarship and attempt to pass it as science.

And finally mistake the faith for science.

474 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:59:43pm

re: #431 Salamantis

Blaise Pascal. I was wondering if anyone would catch that. I don't think Christianity can be so coldly calculated: getting "Fire Insurance" as it is called in some circles. Merely escaping hell is not what Christianity is about. Saying some prayer to let Jesus into your heart may be a start, but so is the first day of kindergarten. One of the main titles for Jesus in the Christian Bible is Λογος Logos. Logos can be translated into English as either Word or Reason. Both are legitimate. (This argument may not fly in some parts of Kentucky where I've been told that Paul wrote the Bible in King James' English, not Koine Greek.)

475 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:59:51pm

What the HECK happened at the Western Wall?!?!?! With the Obama visit? I wasn;t watching my wall cam.

476 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:59:54pm

re: #18 mbruce

Apollo 14 Astronaut says, yeah ET's been here dude
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Apollo 11 was followed by something strange just after TLI. That wasn't hearsay from the internet, that came right from the mouth of Buzz Aldrin, on video, it was him saying it, it was on a cable TV show recently. Not "The NASA Missions" on Discovery, but something else about a month ago in the same format (I don't recall the title). He said they saw a strange item following them that couldn't be accounted for on the ground, it was something small and flying-saucer-esque that stayed with them for a little while, IIRC. You read about these things sometimes but this was on video, right from the man's mouth, and he might have been pulling the interviewer's leg except Armstrong was asked about it too and responded in the affirmative.

I wish I could remember details better about these kinds of things. The show was some sort of moon landing retrospective and I remember saying out loud to the roommate, "Holy shit, that's not in any of the history books! Something followed them, and they saw it?! Creepy..."

477 formercorpsman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:07pm

re: #469 kc8ukw

It really is getting bad now.

This is a man that is in kinship with Louie.

This is disgraceful.

478 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:12pm

re: #465 LoafingOaf

It's a free country, but seeing that slide show made me sad. When you take a child to a museum it should not be child abuse.

You need to get out more. "Child abuse" means something to a few people out there.

479 joecitizen  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:24pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Truth : and we will not figure it out ever, untill we go to be with HIM,

I am a CHRISTian, meaning i belive in Jesus as God incarnate who died for my many sins and the sins of the world and was crucified and wwas raised 3 three days and lives today in Heaven, ,, oh yea and there is also that virgin birth thing,,,,,,,, if I believe in that, why would I not also believe in the creation of the world in 6 days, and the flood and everything else,, the one thing is though,, GOD's Time is NOT our time.ONLY HE knows.day can be a year or many years, like the above post said, we have not figured it out,, and we never will, it is not for us to know but only God who created us.

sorry that now all you lizards whom i love for these many years will now consider me an idiot and moron and fanatic,, just know there are more of me here and we are praying for us all.

once a child always a child,eh?

480 tradewind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:40pm

re: #461 formercorpsman

That does it. It's just too much to take.
I can only imagine how the Israelis must feel.

481 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:55pm

re: #470 Occasional Reader

If we apply the "you have to be able to carry it yourself" rule, I'd think something like this might do the trick.

That is going to ruin the steaks.

482 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:00:58pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

I've spent a fair amount of time reading ID stuff, and never have I found any that caused me any respect at all for the authors. Just as when you read current liberal screeds, no matter how many you read, they all suck.

As I've posted before, evolution is a very complex idea, and even the strongest proponents have trouble putting together a completely ironclad argument. You might even argue that none has. However, ALL the evidence is on their side. All of it.

You can deny it all with faith, but you cannot deny it at all with science.

483 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:01:10pm

re: #468 obwon

re: #196 pegcity

Where the hell are dinasours mentioned in the bible, oh thats right they aren't

Isaiah 30:6, Job 40:15-24, Job 41:1-34

Another interesting omission is that nowhere is the other "half" of the planet mentioned. I'm thinking of what we call the Americas. Perhaps you have another name for it, without bringing in the Mormons?

484 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:01:21pm

re: #454 pingjockey

Hmm, Think you were referring to me. :) Where's the sport in high explosives?

/later all, back in about an hour or so.

485 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:01:25pm

re: #465 LoafingOaf

As ridiculous as I find the whole idea of this museum, how the hell is it child abuse. Those are not words to be thrown around lightly.

486 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:01:45pm

re: #471 theparson

Why must so many Christians cling to the belief that Christianity and Evolution must be mutually exclusive?

Stick around and you shall know.

487 beachkatie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:01:47pm

re: #28 Paul
No freaking room?

488 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:02:25pm

re: #476 Pawn of the Oppressor

All I needed to know about Buzz Aldrin I learned from his punch.

489 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:02:33pm

re: #383 Throbert McGee

I've heard that joke specifically about folks from Guangdong province (where the Cantonese dialect and cuisine comes from), and it included "...everything under the sea but a submarine."

490 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:02:40pm

Cars are cool

491 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:02:48pm

re: #445 IRQ Conflict

the foundation of the world.


IRQ, speaking as a linguist who loves the Holy Bible AND takes the righteousness that is Christ as my personal saviour, I share with you that the term 'world' in Scriptures most frequently refers to the term 'aeon' (in Greek) meaning 'eon, era, whirl, this SOCIETAL CONSTRUCT, these days'

Jesus uses Aramaic terms for world 6 times in Scripture, and only ONE of them refers to Earth, (kosmos) and it is not used in a prophetic explanation or parable.

'end of the world' was set out in Scripture to indicate 'end of this societal construct (that is: the ORDER which had existed from the beginning of recorded history, which was the beginning of human collective experience in villages, towns, cities: kings and priests rule all the rest.)'

Either we are living in 'that day' (a new WORLD/aeon) or we're living in Jesus' day. Which do you choose?

492 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:02:48pm

re: #474 David IV of Georgia

I don't know about Kentucky but every time I drive through Missouri I see those signs telling me I'm doomed for reading the NASB.

493 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:05pm

re: #431 Salamantis

BTW: I am not going to be browbeaten by Pascal's Wager into reducing this life - the only one of which I am absolutely certain - into a thralled appendage of a believed-in next. For if I took such advice, and did not strive to achieve what I want to achieve in this life, but instead rolled the dice and gambled it all away on the promise of a bigger pot that turned out to not exist, I would have terminally screwed over and forsaken and abandoned myself and my own one and only life.

There is nothing about a healthy belief in the Judeo-Christian God that should prevent you from achieving anything in this life - unless, of course, the object of your quest involved inflicting on others what you would not have inflicted upon yourself.

As for Pascal's wager, it is what it is: there is either an afterlife or there is not. If there is, I sure would not want to be in your shoes when you draw your last breath. If there is not, then all your preening and posturing, all your fretting and dithering over the possibility of having been "terminally screwed over" will have been proven meaningless - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

494 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:25pm

re: #468 obwon

Isaiah 30:6, Job 40:15-24, Job 41:1-34

Isaiah 30:6 - This is a message 1 about the animals in the Negev: Through a land of distress and danger, inhabited by lionesses and roaring lions, 2 by snakes and darting adders, 3
they transport 4 their wealth on the backs of donkeys, their riches on the humps of camels,to a nation that cannot help them. 5

Job 40:15-24 - "Behemoth (the name means “beast” in Hebrew). "

Where's the dino's

495 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:29pm

re: #471 theparson

Why must so many Christians cling to the belief that Christianity and Evolution must be mutually exclusive?

That's kinda the whole belief thing. Just believe.

496 formercorpsman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:33pm

re: #469 kc8ukw

Furthermore, I'm Catholic. Not a great one, but it is what I am.

The thought of an American presidential candidate doing something like this, makes me sick to my stomach.

I know what I have learned, and have been told about this location for Jewish people.

This is terrible.

497 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:43pm

re: #485 paradox42

As ridiculous as I find the whole idea of this museum, how the hell is it child abuse. Those are not words to be thrown around lightly.

I think the point is that teaching ignorance is crippling a child as an eventual knowledgeable adult. Harsh word to use perhaps, but true in that sense.

498 dwigg  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:43pm

(Job 40:15-19) "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox. See now,his strength is in his hips, and his power is in his stomach muscles. He moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword." Biblical theology aside, what was the author of this passage describing (more than 3000 years ago)?

499 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:03:49pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

Can creationists believe in freewill if they believe that God is not only omniscient and omnipotent, but that the fates and destinies of all were already written down in a book of accounting before the beginning of the world, including whether they would end up in Hell or in Heaven? That would kinda reduce human choice and the entire history of the universe to the replaying of a movie that God's already seen, wouldn't it?

How does one play the salvation game if trying can't help you win? How does one play such a game when one's moves have already been decided for one by another? And how can one ethically be forever held responsible for either one's finite sins or one's finite virtues by the very One who decided from the beginning of time what one would and would not say and do, and where one would be sent for all eternity as a result?

The whole set-up impresses me as being vaguely masturbatory...

500 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:04:35pm

re: #497 Naso Tang

I think the point is that teaching ignorance is crippling a child as an eventual knowledgeable adult. Harsh word to use perhaps, but true in that sense.

On the other hand they watch MTV and seem to survive that.

501 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:04:37pm

re: #436 M. Bensson-Levi

Except for YOU KNOW WHO, and he knows who he is!

Ahhh! Even he was... but like us given free will to choose to follow God....

Bad choices.... the beginning of it all.

502 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:04:47pm

re: #498 dwigg

(Job 40:15-19) "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox. See now,his strength is in his hips, and his power is in his stomach muscles. He moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword." Biblical theology aside, what was the author of this passage describing (more than 3000 years ago)?

Look it up. A hippo. THe word in Hebrew simply means beast, nothing more.

503 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:05:26pm

skinny diping is cool

504 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:05:42pm

re: #395 OldLineTexan

I was least impressed with jellyfish (chew some plastic) and sea cucumber (chew some newspaper soaked in water for a week).

I was pleasantly surprised by jellyfish the first time I tried it, in a Chinese restaurant just off Times Square. It was in sweet-tangy sauce with plenty of garlic (mind you, there's no such thing as "too much garlic" in my book) and the texture reminded me of homemade sauerkraut, if I had to compare it to something familiar. Anyway, I suspect that most people would've taken it to be some sort of shredded, marinated vegetable, if they didn't know what it really was. And the sauce was milder than, say, kimchee -- to name another Asian delicacy that actually is a shredded, marinated vegetable, but that many Westerners are somewhat scared of.

Now, sea cucumber I'm still reluctant to try, having some familiarity with the disgusting antics of live sea cucumbers.

505 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:06:17pm

re: #503 Ojoe

skinny diping is cool


Links, please.

506 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:06:18pm

re: #502 Walter L. Newton
I was thinking elephant.

507 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:06:23pm

re: #250 MandyManners

I'm a Christian but, I also believe in evolution.

You don't have to believe in evolution, Mandy; you can know it to be true. That's what empirical evidence is for.

508 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:06:38pm

re: #458 tradewind

Isn't that kind of the same thing that Isabella's court Flat Earth geographers used to try to talk her out of funding Columbus?
Just saying that science has been/ is a fairly fluid discipline throughout man's history.

Actually, they were not flat-earthers. No intelligent person at the time seriously believed the earth was flat. They just didn't believe Columbus' claims that he could sail west directly to Asia. The maps on which he relied to make hi case made the earth appear much smaller than it actually was - heck, the Portuguese knew this, which is why they laughed him out of Lisbon.

Had America not stood in his way - has this continent no existed - he would have perished at sea.

This was their concern.

509 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:06:42pm

re: #498 dwigg

(Job 40:15-19) "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox. See now,his strength is in his hips, and his power is in his stomach muscles. He moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword." Biblical theology aside, what was the author of this passage describing (more than 3000 years ago)?

Kobe beef steak?

510 Reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:07:32pm

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Never liked Led Zeppelin?

I must write long posts in a pointless attempt to bring NMN around to my way of thinking. For I know best that which is good musically. There can be no other opinion but mine. All other musical tastes are invalid. Others that think like me will gang-up on MNM.

For I am really smart, and poor musical choices (and punctuation) enrage me.

511 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:07:44pm

re: #486 Naso Tang

Stick around and you shall know.

I'm not exactly a newbie. I still don't know why.

512 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:07:48pm

Obama/Pinocchio '08

/because you can't handle the truth

513 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:08:39pm

re: #420 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not going to get that personal; I simply do not recall any citation from the Gospels in which Jesus said anything about Genesis as such. If texasjihad has that at his fingertips, he should share.

I think Jesus says "In the beginning God created them male and female" and might mention Adam. I don't think there's anywhere that he explicitly says the book of Genesis is literally true. The literalists probably feel that if Jesus makes ANY reference to the creation story, it means he believed it was literally true. But, Jesus could have regarded it as metaphorical and been speaking in a metaphorical sense in turn. Greek philosophy, which was casting ancient Greek myths as being symbolic of metaphysical truths, was having a lot of influence on Jewish thought at that time.

514 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:08:43pm

re: #512 Killian Bundy
That is a good one.

515 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:08:46pm

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

516 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:09:28pm
517 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:09:44pm

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, the song remains the same.

lol

518 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:09:46pm

re: #495 kansas

re: #471 theparson

Why must so many Christians cling to the belief that Christianity and Evolution must be mutually exclusive?

That's kinda the whole belief thing. Just believe.

Please be clearer.

519 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:09:53pm

Guess I got their attention. Notice that neither of them disputes a single fact that I've posted.

520 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:10:33pm

re: #513 Tigger2005

I think Jesus says "In the beginning God created them male and female" and might mention Adam. I don't think there's anywhere that he explicitly says the book of Genesis is literally true. The literalists probably feel that if Jesus makes ANY reference to the creation story, it means he believed it was literally true. But, Jesus could have regarded it as metaphorical and been speaking in a metaphorical sense in turn. Greek philosophy, which was casting ancient Greek myths as being symbolic of metaphysical truths, was having a lot of influence on Jewish thought at that time.

I think the New Testament consists of others writing their interpretation of what they understood Jesus said, as there is not a book of Jesus. Good night. Past 10 here in Kansas.

521 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:10:50pm

re: #504 Throbert McGee

I was pleasantly surprised by jellyfish the first time I tried it, in a Chinese restaurant just off Times Square. It was in sweet-tangy sauce with plenty of garlic (mind you, there's no such thing as "too much garlic" in my book) and the texture reminded me of homemade sauerkraut, if I had to compare it to something familiar. Anyway, I suspect that most people would've taken it to be some sort of shredded, marinated vegetable, if they didn't know what it really was. And the sauce was milder than, say, kimchee -- to name another Asian delicacy that actually is a shredded, marinated vegetable, but that many Westerners are somewhat scared of.

Now, sea cucumber I'm still reluctant to try, having some familiarity with the disgusting antics of live sea cucumbers.

The fish guts were OK, but I suspect they were offered to me as a joke...custardy, but no actual flavor.

The sea cuke was served in soup with vegetables. Not impressive, but edible.

I did learn that "regular" Chinese food here (best example: Kung pao chicken) SUCKS compared to a half-decent restaurant in Taipei or Shanghai (I didn't get to go to the north).

The chicken-cutting skills need work however (most chicken dishes were apparently prepped by reformed axe murderers with severe twitches). So many oddly sharp bone bits...

522 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:11:25pm

re: #515 Charles

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

"LGF played a role in the resignation of anti-Christian newsman Dan Rather of CBS over alleged documents about President George W. Bush"

I love how they have to put EVERYONE in a slot. Dan, you're a heathen.

523 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:11:44pm

re: #515 Charles

Dude!
/Nice.

524 Purple Prose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:11:50pm

re: #382 IRQ Conflict

Here Purple Prose.

Of the five points on that site, the first four refer to the Old Testament and provide rather unscholarly and slipshod reasons as to why Genesis and Exodus need to be interpreted literally. Point Five focuses on the New Testament, where there is nothing at all to indicate whether Jesus or Paul were speaking literally or allegorically/metaphorically and there is no reference to a timeline in the New Testament or a mechanism. There are merely references to Old Testament figures. Jesus often used metaphor in his teachings in the Gospels. There is no reason to believe that Jesus believed in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament.

Moreover, this "source" misspells "Abel" as "Able."

I don't think this is a good source at all.

The truth is that only a person who lives in a dream world can believe that the Earth is five or six thousand years old.

You accept that and you might as well accept that Allah is the One True God and Mohammed is His Prophet.

The dichotomy and struggle of our time is rationality vs. irrationality. Christianity affords many opportunities to be faithful and rational simultaneously. I don't see why some choose to be irrational, when you don't have to be to believe.

If you do, you have no moral standing against anyone else, because if you accept one irrationality, it's arbitrary to then say that another irrationality is illegitimate.

Don't sell Christianity short, as irrational literalists do. Christianity is much more than that. You can be on the side of reason - and science and, yes, evolution - and be Christian. The two are completely compatible.

525 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:02pm

re: #481 OldLineTexan

That is going to ruin the steaks.

That's the pessmist's view. Being an optimist, I think "instant Allosaur Sloppy Joes".

526 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:07pm

re: #505 Crimsonfisted

Links, please.

Links

Links

527 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:13pm

"As I've posted before, evolution is a very complex idea"

Actually, the basics of Darwinism are very simple for laypeople to understand, which makes it all the more frustrating that so many people choose to remain in the dark.

To those who think I went to far to call taking a child to this museum "child abuse," well we'll just have to disagree. I think one of those slides had a kid taking notes from the rubbish on display. Brainwashing a child with falsehoods when the child is too young to be skeptical is abuse, IMO.

528 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:23pm

re: #505 Crimsonfisted

Safe picture

Let's derail this damn thread, it has gone on long enough.

529 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:42pm

re: #500 kansas

On the other hand they watch MTV and seem to survive that.

Many don't, but I like to think that mine did in part because of the countering feedback offered by Mom and Dad from time to time.

530 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:49pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

Religion in general has done much good in the world. But it also takes a back seat to no other known influence, from time immemorial to the present day, when it comes to inspiring the faithful to commit mass organized murder.

531 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:52pm

re: #150 Charles

Please note: one reason they're arguing that humans and dinosaurs lived together is because they believe dinosaurs were ... vegetarians.

Despite the gigantic teeth.

Back in those days, they had big-ass ears of corn.

532 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:54pm
533 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:12:56pm

re: #524 Purple Prose

Don't sell Christianity short, as irrational literalists do. Christianity is much more than that. You can be on the side of reason - and science and, yes, evolution - and be Christian. The two are completely compatible.

Hear, hear!

534 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:13:02pm

re: #453 Thanos

There is a consistent theme running through these exhibits if you read the signs. The theme is anti-reason, anti-science.

Yeah, the message is: "There is no need to investigate the world around you."

Just shut down that part of your brain because if you don't it's blasphemous.

The problem is we would still be in our caves if someone didn't decide to go out and explore the world around them. I believe we are born with innate curiosity and I am always skeptical when someone says that a certain area of knowledge is off limits.

535 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:13:10pm

re: #460 kansas

That's just so sad. RocknRoll sounds like Houses of the Holy sounds like Stairway to Heaven sounds like Black Dog sounds like Misty Mountain Hop? You need to listen again.

Sorry all I get is some incomprehensible screaming guy over finely done but overly similar guitar riffs.

Not sure why so many singers through the years think they have to be absolutely garbled.

(Dylan, Cobain, Zombie(rob))O

536 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:13:17pm

re: #528 Ojoe

Safe picture

Let's derail this damn thread, it has gone on long enough.

Do you have the unsafe version available. I'm at home, single and ...

537 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:13:38pm

i'm tired. good night all and god bless you.
and thank god for science.

538 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:13:58pm

re: #536 Walter L. Newton

No unsafe photo, sorry

539 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:02pm

re: #510 Reno911

Never liked Led Zeppelin?

I must write long posts in a pointless attempt to bring NMN around to my way of thinking. For I know best that which is good musically. There can be no other opinion but mine. All other musical tastes are invalid. Others that think like me will gang-up on MNM.

For I am really smart, and poor musical choices (and punctuation) enrage me.

That sounds familiar, where have I seen that before. Oh yeah now I remember.

540 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:04pm

re: #498 dwigg

(Job 40:15-19) "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox. See now,his strength is in his hips, and his power is in his stomach muscles. He moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword." Biblical theology aside, what was the author of this passage describing (more than 3000 years ago)?

Oh, that's gotta be a brontosaurus. Couldn't be anything else, could it. You've convinced me.

541 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:07pm

There are at least 15 dinosaurs in my house. At least one of them is animated and runs on batteries.
They belong to my little caveboy.
I don't see anything so unusual about your lead pic.
Really.

542 beachkatie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:09pm

re: #150 Charles
Hey they say sharks don't go after human prey to!

543 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:10pm

re: #515 Charles

Both the LGF blog and the CBC story have a naïve and simplistic

understanding of the politics of Turkey today. As it happens, on most issues, including foreign policy, the more leftist party in Turkey is the "secularist" one that is now out of power. The Justice and Development Party (AKP), known as an Islamist party, is the more moderate party.


The mask slips.

544 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:14pm

re: #489 Dar ul Harb

I've heard that joke specifically about folks from Guangdong province (where the Cantonese dialect and cuisine comes from), and it included "...everything under the sea but a submarine."

Interesting -- you mean it was told by non-Cantonese about the Cantonese, or by the Cantonese about themselves?

As I said, the person I originally heard the joke from was definitely Taiwanese-identified, and definitely said "we Chinese" rather than "those hicks in some other part of China."

545 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:20pm

re: #525 Occasional Reader

That's the pessmist's view. Being an optimist, I think "instant Allosaur Sloppy Joes".

Did it eat the mega-tomatoes and mega-onions, or do I have to gun them down, too?

546 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:32pm

re: #515 Charles

You got them on defense Charles. Cool.

547 fried spam  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:37pm

re: #471 theparson

Why must so many Christians cling to the belief that Christianity and Evolution must be mutually exclusive?

Why must so many Evolutionists cling to the belief that Evolution disproves Christianity?

;>

548 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:42pm

re: #515 Charles

As far as their claims go such as you're naive about Turkish politics- I think it's called "projection".

549 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:14:43pm

re: #231 OldGuard

I don't have a problem with anything people want to be believe in. The problem kicks in when people of any faith try to insert their religion into science curriculum, especially when the target is children. And thats the whole point of that museum. To convince kids that science a lie perpetrated by ungodly people by proposing ridiculous counter theories.

550 DisturbedEma  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:00pm

My 6 year old daughter said "Ema, the girl is not supposed to be there, the dinosaurs died and then we were born."

I AM quite proud, she finished at the top of her. . .wait for it. . .Kindergarten class

551 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:02pm

re: #535 Mars Needs Neocons

Sorry all I get is some incomprehensible screaming guy over finely done but overly similar guitar riffs.

Not sure why so many singers through the years think they have to be absolutely garbled.

(Dylan, Cobain, Zombie(rob))O

Dylan was garbled for the obvious reason.

552 calculatorjockey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:17pm
553 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:21pm

re: #547 fried spam

Why must so many Evolutionists cling to the belief that Evolution disproves Christianity?

;>

The flip side. Very good!

554 AverageCdn  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:29pm

I know the Platypus is the product of evolution, as is the Manatee. Yet I still find them amazing. I think it's more than possible to believe in science and God and Christianity (the kid, the mom and the holy spook as my less than reverent buddy used to call it).

That's my two cents. I find this museum utterly ridiculous.

555 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:42pm

re: #530 Salamantis

Religion in general has done much good in the world. But it also takes a back seat to no other known influence, from time immemorial to the present day, when it comes to inspiring the faithful to commit mass organized murder.

Pish posh. More humans have perished at the cold, impersonal hands of atheistic totalitarianism in the 20th century alone than in all the centuries of the previous two millennia combined.

Unless, of course, you consider the worship of the state to be a form of religion.

556 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:53pm

re: #528 Ojoe
I thought my Seussish was funny.. oh well. not a laugh in the house.
re: #126 Crimsonfisted

re: #526 solomonpanting

Links

Links

LOL!

That is funny.

557 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:15:54pm

re: #552 calculatorjockey

I don't know why Charles has such a hard on about all this creationism, ID carrying on all of a sudden. Is this a mid-life crisis?

I guess I can check in again when we are discussing the jihadis and what to do about them.

Wanker

558 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:08pm

re: #552 calculatorjockey

I don't know why Charles has such a hard on about all this creationism, ID carrying on all of a sudden. Is this a mid-life crisis?

I guess I can check in again when we are discussing the jihadis and what to do about them.

Or you could just go start you own blog and determine your own destiny.

559 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:10pm

re: #515 Charles


This was interesting: "All 15 points in the Scientific American article were thoroughly addressed by Dr Jonathan Sarfati and those refutations were published on the web within weeks." I don't think 'responding on a website' actually qualifies as 'refutation' among scientists.
[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

560 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:39pm

Glad to see others feel the same way I do about sea cucumbers.
Why don't they just call them giant sea slugs, or mobile boogers, which is about their consistency.

561 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:43pm

re: #476 Pawn of the Oppressor

Apollo 11 was followed by something strange just after TLI. That wasn't hearsay from the internet, that came right from the mouth of Buzz Aldrin, on video, it was him saying it, it was on a cable TV show recently. Not "The NASA Missions" on Discovery, but something else about a month ago in the same format (I don't recall the title). He said they saw a strange item following them that couldn't be accounted for on the ground, it was something small and flying-saucer-esque that stayed with them for a little while, IIRC.
... I wish I could remember details better about these kinds of things. The show was some sort of moon landing retrospective and I remember saying out loud to the roommate, "Holy shit, that's not in any of the history books! Something followed them, and they saw it?! Creepy..."

Probably a time machine of some sort.

(Kidding ...maybe?)

562 ratherdashing  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:46pm

re: #515 Charles

Former Muslim Daniel Shayesteh has spoken for Answers in Genesis. He's very anti-Islam and now is a evangelical Christian. It just doesn't fit that the ID folks are in bed with the Islamists.

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

563 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:52pm

re: #547 fried spam
How in hell did you come up with that?

564 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:16:53pm

re: #532 buzzsawmonkey

Carridine: I figured you'd like that one.


Dang, you have a real gift for meter, Buzz!

My situation is about to change here, and I may be able to book a day in the local cheap (but digital) recording studio, in which case I'll cut a couple of BuzzSaw/Karridine classics!

/rich! we'll be RICH & Feermous! :D

565 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:17:24pm

re: #527 LoafingOaf

"As I've posted before, evolution is a very complex idea"

Actually, the basics of Darwinism are very simple for laypeople to understand, which makes it all the more frustrating that so many people choose to remain in the dark.

To those who think I went to far to call taking a child to this museum "child abuse," well we'll just have to disagree. I think one of those slides had a kid taking notes from the rubbish on display. Brainwashing a child with falsehoods when the child is too young to be skeptical is abuse, IMO.

Next time I see a kid with trails of cigarette burns down his back, I'll say a silent Thank You Prayer that he wasn't taken to a half-ass inaccurate museum.

566 dwigg  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:17:48pm

re: #502 Walter L. Newton

Have you seen a hippos' tail? It'd be poorly described as "he moves his tail as a cedar." A hippos tail is nearly non-existent other than to shoo-away the flies. I don't have the answer but it does not describe a hippo or an elephant for that matter.

567 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:17:54pm

re: #554 AverageCdn

Did someone say platypus?

568 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:18:29pm

re: #552 calculatorjockey
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

569 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:18:40pm

re: #547 fried spam

Why must so many Evolutionists cling to the belief that Evolution disproves Christianity?

;>

Bless U.

570 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:18:44pm

This is what happens if you let ISLAM intrude, and don't stamp it out wherever possible.

[Link: www.dailymotion.com...]

571 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:18:50pm

re: #548 Sharmuta

This might answer some of the questions you raised about using the $27 million doing good works, instead of opening the museum.

Christian Reconstructionism
"Specific beliefs include: A rejection of Antinomianism: the belief that salvation is obtained totally through faith and not through performing good works and living a moral life."
[Link: www.religioustolerance.org...]

572 JamesWI  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:19:19pm

re: #515 Charles

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

I like the part in the Creation Ministries post, talking about how they have "refuted" all the questions about Creationism . . . in a book, published by themselves, without peer review . . .

573 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:19:34pm

re: #566 dwigg

An elephants tail is dry and gray like a cedar branch.

574 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:19:43pm

re: #515 Charles

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]


If people at LGF think they can make the case that Discovery Institute is somehow soft on Islamic radicalism and terrorists, perhaps they should pick up a copy of our Senior Fellow John Wohlstetter's new book.... blah blah

Or maybe we should just listen to what Dinesh says about allying with Islamists?

575 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:19:48pm

re: #565 OldLineTexan

Next time I see a kid with trails of cigarette burns down his back, I'll say a silent Thank You Prayer that he wasn't taken to a half-ass inaccurate museum.

Child abuse comes in many different forms and degrees.

576 Jim D  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:16pm

re: #547 fried spam

Why must so many Evolutionists cling to the belief that Evolution disproves Christianity?

;>

There are very few, if any, folks in these discussions that believe this.

577 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:16pm

re: #493 NemoParticularis

Pascal's wager:

... You have two things to lose: the true and the good; and two things to stake: your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to avoid: error and wretchedness. Since you must necessarily choose [because of death], your reason is no more affronted by choosing one rather than the other. That is one point cleared up. But your happiness? Let us weigh up the gain and the loss involved in calling heads that God exists. Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing. ...

-Blaise Pascal quoted in Christianity for Modern Pagans: Pascal's Pensees. Peter Kreeft. Ignatius: San Francisco, 1966. p. 294.

578 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:19pm

re: #563 pingjockey

How in hell did you come up with that?

The idea, just evolved....

579 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:28pm

re: #570 MandyManners

This is what happens if you let ISLAM intrude, and don't stamp it out wherever possible. [Link: www.dailymotion.com...]

Indeed, Miss Manners. I agree completely: Islam must be destroyed.

580 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:28pm

re: #491 Carridine

I haven't delved too deeply into this particular train of theology. However, it is my belief that the last 2000 years since Christ is what He referred to as the "last day''s".

I can't quote verbatim at the moment, but when Christ referred to "the end" I believe that clock started ticking in 1948 when Israel became a nation. And is talking about the coming world dictatorship ultimatley culminating in the anti-Christs demise.

I don't believe the end (destruction) of the world will come till after Christ reigns for a thousand years and God destroys the heavens and the earth with fire and Creates anew.

I hope I hit the target, I'm pressed for time. I'll check this thread after I get back from work. Let me know if this is what your after and whether you disagree. God Bless!

581 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:47pm

re: #573 jaunte

An elephants tail is dry and gray like a cedar branch.

Warning: Do not use elephant tail to scent your closet or hope chest.

582 DisturbedEma  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:20:48pm

re: #575 LoafingOaf

Child abuse comes in many different forms and degrees.


Yeah, like teaching your kid to hate others. . .AND socialize them to want to kill those others. . .and themselves. . .

583 Reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:21:07pm

re: #539 Mars Needs Neocons

Jimmy Page is (my) God.

You don't think so? I keeel you!

584 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:21:15pm

After reading some of the signs in the pictures stating dinosaurs with large sharp teeth were adapt at eating plants and not tearing flesh off another animal, I come to the conclusion that this museum was a giant leap of imagination. There is a distinct difference between faith and blind faith. Never mistake one for the other.

Having faith to believe in something greater than ourselves is a great force to bring people together. The idea that I would no longer exist as a thinking entity after my death is a terrifying idea. Such ideas can break the human will to live because what would be the point of living if I simply cease to exist after 80-90 years on this planet.

On the other end of the spectrum why Earth would be the only source of life and such a tiny spec in the Universe that seems to go on forever itself. That the Universe is just a tapestry to give false hope to humans of ever exploring in future generations is just as terrifying as not existing after death. To give up expanding our knowledge of the world around us that is without doubt a beautiful thing to behold as are the stars above should give anyone seeking truth a pause.

God and Science should never have come to the point of being mutually exclusive of each other to point of drawing a line in the sand. Though it has come about because of human free will to chose between these two extremes. I was raised Roman Catholic, as with many young American Catholics I had to contend with what I learned in school Monday through Friday and what I learned in the one hour of Catechism on Sunday. My growing love for Friday evenings followed Saturday became apparent. I chose to view many stories in the bible more as morality tales of faith and not historic fact. Because it didn't invalidate the points about faith the stories were written to instill.

As for science as greater insight to the atom, the world, and the universe. To chose to become ignorant would be a sin.

585 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:21:21pm

re: #575 LoafingOaf

Child abuse comes in many different forms and degrees.

Wow, you got me there. Remind me never to argue with an expert again.

586 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:21:30pm

re: #566 dwigg

Have you seen a hippos' tail? It'd be poorly described as "he moves his tail as a cedar." A hippos tail is nearly non-existent other than to shoo-away the flies. I don't have the answer but it does not describe a hippo or an elephant for that matter.

Whatever. Look, the Hebrew word, used in the text, simply means beast. The same word that is used for beast in many, many places. Why do you have to take something simple and make it complex and special. Where is your critical thinking skills.

And the "cedar" reference is the way the leaves blow gently in the wind. Geeesssh.

587 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:21:54pm

re: #501 jcm

Ahhh! Even he was... but like us given free will to choose to follow God....

Bad choices.... the beginning of it all.

Free will? Ain't nuthin' free!

588 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:19pm

re: #511 theparson

I'm not exactly a newbie. I still don't know why.


I meant that your question is answered by someone in all of these threads.

I'm surprised that someone with your background doesn't better understand the creationist perspective however. Even I, álthough it was a long time ago, can still remember something of accepting certain things as unquestionable.

589 deesine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:19pm

re: #493 NemoParticularis

As for Pascal's wager, it is what it is: there is either an afterlife or there is not. If there is, I sure would not want to be in your shoes when you draw your last breath. If there is not, then all your preening and posturing, all your fretting and dithering over the possibility of having been "terminally screwed over" will have been proven meaningless - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Most all religions accept the existence of an afterlife. I'm curious about how much of the other versions you are familiar with and how much "spiritual inference" you may be employing: that is, you believe Religion X, not necessarily because of its version of the afterlife, but you are then necessarily bound to believing that particular religion's afterlife story.

590 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:27pm

A point before packing it in for the night. At first I was going to pass by on this because it is a free country and honestly I find the topic rather a bore. No offense Charles, it is your shop.

What I was noticing though may be interesting. This is of course anecdotal. The method of disputation used by the ID enthusiasts is very similar to that used by the Islamists. I do not believe that people of faith in general engage in the same form of argumentation. That may or may not be true for the average Muslim who has had basic religious training, read their holy text and attended sporadic services but it does apply to members of other faith groups that I know. The outstanding feature of their method is its' circularity. They attempt to preemptively define both their positions and that of the other party. Then they attempt to choose the facts that both sides may use to determine what the truth is. They are truly puzzled when anyone disputes the result.

Now it might be possible to confine this heuristic straight jacket to use on only those subjects that touch on core matters of belief. The problem in the case of Islam is that the very universality it claims as a belief system permits no independent or secular learning to exist. For the Jew or Christian who is engaging in a similar form of what really is Solipsism that condition may not apply. However the ability to operate with two conflicting maps of reality may be either a very human trait and source of strength or an unsustainable source of weakness.

591 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:29pm

The point I want to make is that the Word of God is deep and complex. I am certain that God created everything but, I don't know how He did it. I can't prove He did it, it's my faith. I like it.

/obligatory "but I don't want it taught in school"...

592 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:30pm

re: #581 OldLineTexan

Ha! Pull elephant tail for load of troubles.

593 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:49pm

re: #577 David IV of Georgia

Pascal's wager:

Thank you, David 4. I suspect that many folks who blithely dismiss Pascal's Wager never bothered to actually read it.

594 obwon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:49pm

re: #502 Walter L. Newton

Look it up. A hippo. THe word in Hebrew simply means beast, nothing more.

Have you seen a hippo with a tail like a cedar?

595 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:22:56pm

re: #538 Ojoe

No unsafe photo, sorry

I have arrived at post # 549, and I agree, you will have to better than that to de-rail this thread.

Now, to prove I am no racist, not that I think I have ever been accused of being one, I hear Merlene Ottey has missed out on making the Olympics for the 8th time. At 48 years old she is still pretty hot.

I particularly like this shot because it seems she has forgotten to pay for her groceries and is being chased down by the shop attendent (I was going to say "bag lady" but that might be considered racist........oh, silly, its not a race its a religion, no, hang on this might be a race..........oh forget it.......

596 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:23:18pm

re: #587 M. Bensson-Levi

Free will? Ain't nuthin' free!

Ain't that the truth! We pay for every choice.

597 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:23:31pm

re: #579 NemoParticularis

Indeed, Miss Manners. I agree completely: Islam must be destroyed.

I dunno. Islam developed in Europe (read Albania, et al) distinctively European... They can't deal with the Islamists and Wahabists and pay them little attention.

598 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:23:50pm

re: #573 jaunte

An elephants tail is dry and gray like a cedar branch.

No, no, don't say that. It doesn't matter if the word is a simple, ordinary Hebrew word. It doesn't matter if linguists are well aware of the simple meaning. It doesn't matter that a lot of scripture is free-verse and poetic in nature.

IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING MYSTERIOUS.

/

599 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:23:58pm

re: #498 dwigg

(Job 40:15-19) "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox. " Biblical theology aside, what was the author of this passage describing (more than 3000 years ago)?

♪♫
''He walks like an elephant
He swims like a whale!
His head's like a pail -- it's pathetic
And plainly his tail's unaesthetic...
"♪♫

(Thus spake the Prophet Jimmy, yea even of Osmond)

600 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:24:01pm

re: #292 texasjihad

re: #239 Salamantis

Evolutuionary theory is not about the beginning of life, but instead about what happens to randomly mutating already-present life when it is confronted by a nonrandomly selecting surrounding environment.

And we have enough empirical, experimental, repeatable-under-controlled-conditions evidence about that to snap off the iron tines of fleets of front-end loaders.

tj: The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics does not apply when the sytem in question is not closed, but open, that is, when it receives energy from an outside source, like, well....THE SUN! D'OH!

Evolution has been supported by the fossil record, by laboratory observation, and by the very contents of all life's genes. NOTHING in science is considered to be proven 100%, in principle, because science refuses to foreclose a future in which more evidence might appear that would modify an existing theory. But the chances of random mutation & nonrandom environmental selection being wrong, or of the earth being less than 4 billion years old, or of humans and other lifeforms, including our closest relatives the great apes, not sharing common ancestors, are so vanishingly small as to be pragmatically indistinguishable from nil.

Believe it or not, this is UNDERSTATING my case, by a substantial margin. And evolutionary theory has been making those who reject it look like idiots for a century and a half now, and I do not forsee that changing.

601 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:24:17pm
602 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:24:18pm

I take exception to all that "everyone was a vegetarian until Adam sinned" nonsense. Cats NEVER ate veggies. /

603 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:24:44pm

re: #573 jaunte

An elephants tail is dry and gray like a cedar branch.

/and elephants can draw better than Ted Rall

604 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:24:49pm

re: #592 jaunte

Ha! Pull elephant tail for load of troubles.

Pull for prompt service.

605 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:00pm

re: #547 fried spam

Why must so many Evolutionists cling to the belief that Evolution disproves Christianity?

;>

Care to substantiate that?

606 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:04pm

re: #594 obwon

Have you seen a hippo with a tail like a cedar?

Cedar branch, grey, blowing in the wind (I think I have a song there).

Have you ever seen a middle eastern cedar?

607 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:26pm

Do they have an exhibit on this?

608 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:39pm

re: #601 buzzsawmonkey

"Behema" is "beast" in Hebrew; plural, "behemoth."

Which suggests that Behe of the Discovery Institute is a beast of the field, scientifically speaking.

I know.

609 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:49pm

re: #603 Killian Bundy

I think even marsupials can draw better than Ted Rall.

610 JHW  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:25:57pm

re: #508 NemoParticularis

Good points and also because at that time they knew from their calculations of the Earth's circumference it would be a long sail to reach Asia by sailing west, they weren't even sure they could carry enough provisions. Columbus often lied to his crew about the distances covered each day so as not to discourage them further. Another very important concern for the seamen of the day was "How are we going to get back home?'". The prevailing and trade winds were mostly unknown, and with the clumsily rigged ships of his fleet, sailing against the winds was more than they were capable of.

611 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:26:15pm
612 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:26:36pm

re: #609 jaunte

I think even marsupials can draw better than Ted Rall.

Is the Obama possum meme returning? Please say YES!

613 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:26:42pm

re: #588 Naso Tang

I meant that your question is answered by someone in all of these threads.

I'm surprised that someone with your background doesn't better understand the creationist perspective however. Even I, álthough it was a long time ago, can still remember something of accepting certain things as unquestionable.

I'm surprised that you, a Christian apologist, has judged me so quickly. I'm sure have done extensive research on my understanding of things but, you may just be surprised at what I do understand. I, however am a little surprised at your arrogant tone.

614 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:27:19pm

re: #612 OldLineTexan

Vero Rall Possumus Scrawl.

615 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:27:34pm

re: #551 OldLineTexan

Dylan was garbled for the obvious reason.

? Self-administered medication?

616 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:27:35pm
617 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:27:36pm

re: #589 deesine

Most all religions accept the existence of an afterlife. I'm curious about how much of the other versions you are familiar with and how much "spiritual inference" you may be employing: that is, you believe Religion X, not necessarily because of its version of the afterlife, but you are then necessarily bound to believing that particular religion's afterlife story.

I am familiar with many other versions offered by other religions. I happen to believe in the version proferred by the Catholic Church. I believe it because it is based on that which Jesus taught.

618 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:27:45pm

You know this is getting tedious when the Flintstone thing only pops up in half a dozen comments or so...

619 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:28:08pm
Would LGF like to smear Akyol because they disagree with his support for design? Are they willing to smear Discovery because we know and like Mustafa Akyol?


Uhhh... yeah.

620 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:28:18pm

re: #615 Mars Needs Neocons

? Self-administered medication?

how does that go...

DING! DING! DING! WINNAH!

621 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:28:38pm

re: #616 buzzsawmonkey

I wasn't correcting or impugning your Hebrew knowledge--merely snarking on Behe's name.

Oh... ok... nevermind!

622 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:28:50pm

re: #571 jaunte

This might answer some of the questions you raised about using the $27 million doing good works, instead of opening the museum.

Christian Reconstructionism
"Specific beliefs include: A rejection of Antinomianism: the belief that salvation is obtained totally through faith and not through performing good works and living a moral life."
[Link: www.religioustolerance.org...]

So much for Jesus' one new commandment to love each other, huh?

623 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:04pm

em>re: #445 IRQ Conflict

Is that all there is?

BTW According to Genesis:1:26 God created Man and Woman on the sixth day of creation, so how does that square with the various claims in your post which all seem to hinge on a mistaken belief that man had to have been in existence from the beginning of creation? I am no biblical scholar, but it seems obvious that Jesus must have meant "the beginning of creation" of man i.e. day 6, being the last day of creation, not the beginning.

624 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:06pm

re: #597 Capitalist Tool

I dunno. Islam developed in Europe (read Albania, et al) distinctively European... They can't deal with the Islamists and Wahabists and pay them little attention.

In a sense, these are "reformed" Mohammedans. Frankly, I only trust them if I see them eat bacon.

625 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:08pm

re: #615 Mars Needs Neocons

? Self-administered medication?

Can I talk to his pharmacist?

626 Ma Sands  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:09pm

re: #602 Catttt

Good thing you didn't live back then, then, Catttt.....your tummy woulda been most unhappy!


/ ducks :)

627 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:46pm

re: #431 Salamantis

BTW: I am not going to be browbeaten by Pascal's Wager into reducing this life - the only one of which I am absolutely certain - into a thralled appendage of a believed-in next. For if I took such advice, and did not strive to achieve what I want to achieve in this life, but instead rolled the dice and gambled it all away on the promise of a bigger pot that turned out to not exist, I would have terminally screwed over and forsaken and abandoned myself and my own one and only life.


re: #493 NemoParticularis

As for Pascal's wager, it is what it is: there is either an afterlife or there is not. If there is, I sure would not want to be in your shoes when you draw your last breath. If there is not, then all your preening and posturing, all your fretting and dithering over the possibility of having been "terminally screwed over" will have been proven meaningless - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Ah, unattributed Shakespeare!

He, of course, misses the fallacy in Pascal's Wager: which afterlife to think about being part of? &nsp;There could be scores of them, hundreds of them, a lot of those mutually exclusive.  He's trapped by his on faulty bifurcation.

At

628 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:29:52pm

re: #618 PSGInfinity

You know this is getting tedious when the Flintstone thing only pops up in half a dozen comments or so...

600+ posts, several small dust-ups, no bannings...it's like Saturday night in Toledo...

629 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:30:27pm

re: #609 jaunte

I think even marsupials can draw better than Ted Rall.

Isn't Ted a living refutation of the "million monkeys / million typewriters" thing?

630 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:30:33pm
The Justice and Development Party (AKP), known as an Islamist party, is the more moderate party.

What bullshit.

Here's an article about how they refused to serve a German SPD member wine at a restaurant because she was half Turkish, AKP's doing. Yes they are moderate.

AKP banned this photo exhibit as "obscene", the exhibits about suicidal women.

631 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:05pm

re: #544 Throbert McGee

Interesting -- you mean it was told by non-Cantonese about the Cantonese, or by the Cantonese about themselves?

As I said, the person I originally heard the joke from was definitely Taiwanese-identified, and definitely said "we Chinese" rather than "those hicks in some other part of China."

Well, I don't get the feeling that it's a put-down. They're actually kind of proud of their omnivorousness, it seems, as you say. But its my impression it was originally a little bit of ribbing from non-Guangdong people about that province, since most of inland China doesn't eat a lot of that stuff that the Guangdong people eat (particularly some of the seafood, which is a major part of Cantonese cuisine).

632 obwon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:12pm

re: #586 Walter L. Newton

Whatever. Look, the Hebrew word, used in the text, simply means beast. The same word that is used for beast in many, many places. Why do you have to take something simple and make it complex and special. Where is your critical thinking skills.

And the "cedar" reference is the way the leaves blow gently in the wind. Geeesssh.

Cedars are evergreens that don't have leaves.

633 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:15pm

(oops, technical error)

}:)     [At any rate I agree with you Salamantis.]

634 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:29pm

Ok, Lizard linguists, how is the original old testament, in Hebrew and the New testament written in ? originally, different from the KJ version most USA Christians grew up with? Large differences in translation or not enough difference to matter?

635 joecitizen  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:39pm

re: #393 texasjihad

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

perhaps just a badly informed savior operating 2000 FREAKING YEARS AGO...

636 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:50pm

re: #585 OldLineTexan

Wow, you got me there. Remind me never to argue with an expert again.

Taking children to that museum is harmful to those children, IMO, thus I consider it abusing the children dragged there and fed a bunch of B.S. As I already said, you don't have to agree. You might think it's absolutely harmless to drag busloads of kids to the Creation Museum. We'll just have to disagree on that. Notice I can disagree without getting rude, unlike you.

637 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:31:56pm

re: #622 Sharmuta

It is a sad turning away from things that really need doing.

638 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:08pm

re: #309 texasjihad

re: #277 Salamantis

You're believing in something for which no empirical evidence exists over that for which there is scads of scientific evidence all around, and you are actually accusing us of Kool-aid drinking?

Now that's some impressive turnspeak!

tj: What about the where did life come from question? If God did it then why do you think you know better than the Bible HOW HE did. If you do not know where life came from then why don't you go stare at your navel until it comes to you.

Where life came from has nothing to do with what happens to it once it shows up (evolution), but if you're really interested, you might wanna check out an article Charles posted a while back:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Your second sentence assumes what you wish, without a sliver of empirical evidence, to scientifically prove.

And I sincerely doubt if Buddhist meditiation will answer such questions any better than would Christian prayer. Empirical science has a much better chance of figuring such things out that either of them do, because they actually...umm...investigate and stuff...

639 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:31pm

re: #635 joecitizen

perhaps just a badly informed savior operating 2000 FREAKING YEARS AGO...

Look Ma...opposites attract.

640 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:39pm
641 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:41pm

re: #515 Charles

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

Who says LGF doesn't make an impact?
I'm guessing they finally had to respond after all the frantic calls to their hotlines in the middle of the night

"Hello, I need someone to give me a good comeback for the retroviral DNA issue?"

"Hello, how do I respond to the T-Rex running around after Adam and Eve problem?"

"Hello, I've got Salamantis and Sharmuta on my back, what do I do?"

642 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:44pm

re: #593 NemoParticularis

Thank you, David 4. I suspect that many folks who blithely dismiss Pascal's Wager never bothered to actually read it.

Quite true, for me too. I've read it rewritten many times, but the original has little resemblance to the commonly quoted versions, I think.

It would seem that one interpretation could be that if you lead a good life, the end result will be the same either way.

643 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:55pm

re: #628 OldLineTexan

600+ posts, several small dust-ups, no bannings...it's like Saturday night in Toledo...

?

"It's like being nowhere at all,
all through the day how the hours rush by,
(we chat) in the park
and (we) watch the grass die?"

644 jwm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:55pm

LGF. A sane moral compas.
/

JWM

645 beachkatie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:32:58pm

I've heard a rumor that Cal. is going to disappear from the continental USA .. is that real?

646 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:33:14pm

re: #593 NemoParticularis

Thank you, David 4. I suspect that many folks who blithely dismiss Pascal's Wager never bothered to actually read it.

I thought that it would be good to actually quote it since it was being bandied about on this thread.

647 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:33:20pm

re: #636 LoafingOaf

Taking children to that museum is harmful to those children, IMO, thus I consider it abusing the children dragged there and fed a bunch of B.S. As I already said, you don't have to agree. You might think it's absolutely harmless to drag busloads of kids to the Creation Museum. We'll just have to disagree on that. Notice I can disagree without getting rude, unlike you.

I'm sarcastic, bud.

Rude is gonna cost you; I don't work free.

648 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:33:29pm

re: #629 PSGInfinity

Well, remember the human-lifetime timescale. Maybe in a billion years, a million million Ralls might scrawl something better.

649 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:34:11pm

Here's what truly blows my mind -- if the Bible wasn't inspired by God, how could the author of Job have known in advance that the word "Behemoth" (Russian: Бeгeмoт) would one day be picked at random by Bulgakov as the name for a talking Satanic cat in The Master and Margarita?

Put that in your pipe and chew on it, materialists!

650 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:34:51pm

re: #635 joecitizen

perhaps just a badly informed savior operating 2000 FREAKING YEARS AGO...

It could also be a multi-layered truth, especially when taken more mystically than literally.

651 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:35:14pm

re: #643 PSGInfinity

?

"It's like being nowhere at all,
all through the day how the hours rush by,
(we chat) in the park
and (we) watch the grass die?"

It was a John Denver song...

it's like being nowhere at all
They roll up the sidewalks precisely at ten
And the good folks of Toledo are not seen again

652 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:35:44pm

re: #648 jaunte

Well, remember the human-lifetime timescale. Maybe in a billion years, a million million Ralls might scrawl something better.

A Domino's pizza ad?

653 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:35:52pm

So I've been waiting since the NFL draft to see the West Point grad Caleb Campbell at the Lion's training camp that starts tomorrow. Players reported today. And today the Department of Defense notified the Lions and Campbell that they changed their minds and he can't play football.

"It's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean Caleb Campbell's dream is dead. It just means it will be delayed," Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb told The Associated Press. "We want to take care of soldiers and dashing their hopes is not what we intend. But it is what it is."

Now I understand completely what the Department of Defense is doing here and I don't think that Caleb will protest, its what he signed up for. But whats the point of waiting until the eve of training camp to tell the guy.

654 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:36:07pm

re: #515 Charles

When you don't agree with (or mock etc) fanatics you're a heathen/infidel etc to them...

BTW was kind of surprised they didn't have Flintstones cartoon section in the pictures to further their notions, you know - something extra for the kids...

655 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:36:16pm

In an interview with the guardian in 1995 the leader of AKP stated that he "wanted to eliminate the secular republic". Yeah, that's moderation.

656 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:36:31pm

re: #651 OldLineTexan

It was a John Denver song...

it's like being nowhere at all
They roll up the sidewalks precisely at ten
And the good folks of Toledo are not seen again

I wore out that two-album set. Twice.

657 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:36:44pm

re: #619 Killgore Trout
Aykol has written for the Washington Times:
"The Washington Times runs a commentary piece today [May 13, 2007] that reassures me that Jihad Watch and our fellow subversives will be in business for some time. Nothing new here, just a bland recapitulation of the usual establishment bromides about "Islamism"; the need for "modernization"; how the Quran sets out a "just war" theory; etc. Yawn. No mention, of course, of Muhammad's various bloody deeds.

One interesting point of note is that the author, Mustafa Akyol, of the Turkish Daily News (also at [Link: www.thewhitepath.com),...] manages to mention the interpretive principle of Quranic abrogation - but says that this was the product of Islamic jurists rather than the Quran itself (as actually found in Sura 2:106). His point is, of course, wrong, but it is interesting that he felt the need to mention it. Maybe we're getting to them?"
[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

658 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:37:12pm

re: #580 IRQ Conflict

Thanks for responding, IRQ. (Ironically juicy Nic, there, Kiddo!)

that clock started ticking in 1948 when Israel became a nation

A great number of people believe this, IRQ, even though Israel couldn't have become a nation unless 'the times of the gentiles' had not first come to an end, as it did, Mar 21, 1844, with the signing of the Edict of Toleration, forced upon the Caliphate by western European powers, ending gentile control over the Holy Land and allowing both the repatriation of the Jews AND, later, the birth of a great nation.

That year, 1844, was the year 1260 on the Muslim calendar, and was the same year that 'the Gospel ... taken to every nation as a witness' and the very year that the 2,300-year prophecy by Daniel, and invoked by Jesus (Abomination of Desolation) came to an end.

Hence the Year of the Great Expectation.

659 Cognito[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:37:28pm
660 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:37:31pm

I'm out.
Don't take any wooden nickels.
Have an RC Cola and a Moon Pie, it'll mellow you out.
Good night Mrs Callabash, where ever you are.

661 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:37:41pm

re: #626 Ma Sands

Good thing you didn't live back then, then, Catttt.....your tummy woulda been most unhappy!


/ ducks :)

Yous wanna meet the young'uns? Come out here, Abigail, Ruth, Donna, Becky, Debbey, Hank, Luke, Matthew, Joan, Bobby-Mae, Billy-bob, Henry, Harry, Walter, Barbara, Angus, Heath, Noah, Abraham, John, Paul, Ringo, Benson, Hedges, Rose, April, June, Jessie, Ken, Boris, Tess, Thomas, Rupert, Mark, Timothy, Obidiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Ricky-lee, Wayne, Heidi, Cathy, Celia, Felicity, Gareth, George, Hank, Issac, Jethro, Leo, Lucy, Mellisa..............

662 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:37:50pm

re: #583 Reno911

Jimmy Page is (my) God.

You don't think so? I keeel you!

lol

663 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:38:40pm

re: #618 PSGInfinity

You know this is getting tedious when the Flintstone thing only pops up in half a dozen comments or so...

Check my first post on this one.

664 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:38:42pm

re: #613 theparson

I'm surprised that you, a Christian apologist, has judged me so quickly. I'm sure have done extensive research on my understanding of things but, you may just be surprised at what I do understand. I, however am a little surprised at your arrogant tone.

You misinterpret my tone, badly.

I meant no offense, and I'm not sure what you mean by Christian apologist. Many people have little everyday opportunity to have these kinds of discussions other than in places like this. You however state that you are in the "business" of religion, to state it simply.

I'm simply surprised that, regardless of your personal position on issues like evolution, that you don't have more direct experience with people prone to creationist beliefs.

My surprise is, however, not expressed as any form of insult.

665 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:39:00pm

re: #651 OldLineTexan

It was a John Denver song...

it's like being nowhere at all
They roll up the sidewalks precisely at ten
And the good folks of Toledo are not seen again

Just two lonely truckers
from Great Falls Montana
and a salesman from places unknown
(says unknown) (?)
all huddled together in downtown, Toledo
to spend their big night all alone.

666 beachkatie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:39:39pm

re: #659 CognitoI think Charles has a agenda hear now!

667 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:40:20pm

re: #324 texasjihad

re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

tj: Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

This old creationist chestnut quote again. Lemme give it a shot...

If tornadoes had a couple of billion years to do so, and began with nuts and bolts, and whenever something worked it stayed stuck together, and, I don't know...and, just maybe, if these little mechanical pieces fucked and the best kiddie pieces got to stick around...and the junkyard rewarded things that more closely resembled functioning engines, shiny chassis and spiffy interiors with more auto kiddies...

What I am pointing out is how absurd and nonsensical the pseudoanalogy is.

668 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:40:26pm

re: #659 Cognito

Charles, I can't help but wonder what the point is, here.


Wonder boy

669 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:40:42pm

re: #660 theparson

Good night Mrs Callabash, where ever you are.

And speaking of Apollo 11,

"Good luck, Mr. Gorsky!"

670 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:40:44pm

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

671 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:41:59pm

re: #329 paradox42

How do you know she is a witch?

I don't; I'm just referencing a Bible verse that says it's necessary to kill them.

672 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:42:32pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

22 posts, eh?

673 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:42:53pm

One of the worst posts I've seen in LGF.

674 Ma Sands  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:42:56pm

I cannot express how much the never-ending discussion of this subject keeps delighting me..... :)

For one thing, besides the awesome growing shaking of the earth beneath out feet (check the U.S. Geological Survey site --frequently! :) , the discussion, and more 'n' more people looking to evolution & other-than-God as creator & maintainer of every breath, means the ending things are coming right smart along! It has been written --and, oh, I cannot wait! :)

675 NY Nana  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:43:08pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Sharm,

I hate to dispute you, but here is proof positive. ;)

676 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:43:19pm

re: #627 Kulhwch

Ah, unattributed Shakespeare! He, of course, misses the fallacy in Pascal's Wager: which afterlife to think about being part of? &nsp;There could be scores of them, hundreds of them, a lot of those mutually exclusive. He's trapped by his on faulty bifurcation.

The line quoted from Macbeth obvious to anyone literate and therefore needed no attribution.

Scores of afterlives? Hundreds? Some of them mutually exclusive? Nonsense. You and I and everone else knows perfectly well we are referencing the Judeo-Christian God, in which there is no contradiction. No one seriously fears the wrath of Jove or Zeus - and when the hoary spectres of these are raised one can be sure the purpose is only to use them as red herrings or strawmen.

Pascal's logic is relentless and I suspect that its implacability is what fills you with dread.

677 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:43:26pm

re: #672 OldLineTexan

?

678 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:43:44pm

re: #634 pingjockey
Ping, one difference I have noted over the last 40 years, is that when serious, Spirit-filled, honest and competent linguists and anthropologists and sociologists, Jewish, Christian and other, have gotten together to write a meaningful re-interpretation of New Testament for today's language, they re-interpret many of the prophecies (especially Jesus') of the Return, from the point of view that 'well, it hasn't happened yet, therefore the previous translations must have been in error, so let's get it right this time...'

NOT a conspiracy, but definitely a cultural blind-spot in otherwise well-motivated and executed efforts.

679 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:43:53pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21


Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

No one's saying they don't have a right to build their museum. But surely Charles and others have a right to criticize it. Ain't that the way freedom of speech works?

680 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:01pm

re: #659 Cognito

Charles, I can't help but wonder what the point is, here.

These people have a museum -- privately funded, entirely devoid of violence -- dedicated to their beliefs. More power to them, I say.

I thought the point of all this debate was to overthrow the proponents of publicly funded teaching of Intelligent Design, while -- ostensibly -- respecting the beliefs of honest people.

Have at it, if it suits you, of course. But once you've decided to take on every snippet of faith that seems illogical, well... you've set yourself a long task.

ANd is it your task to jump into EVERY topic here with a contrary point of view? I rarely see you agreeing with anything on LGF, at least unless you can put some "what if" spin on it.

My opinion, it doesn't make you smart, it doesn't speak of any great thinking, it just makes you sad.

But, a lot of people like beating up on you, so have fun.

681 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:13pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21
You are so far out of line it isn't funny. This whole debate is on ID in schools. I don't care about the museum. I acre about faith being taught as science. There is only prejuidice against idiotarians of any stripe.

682 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:18pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

Freedom of speech cuts both ways, so what is your problem?

684 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:27pm

re: #680 Walter L. Newton

Let's stick to the topic.

685 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:42pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

Sod off.

686 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:44:54pm

re: #446 NemoParticularis

Christianity is based on facts and history.

That Christianity arose among the followers of Jesus following his death at the hands of the Romans is a matter of historical fact, yes.

Actually it's not. There's really no empirical evidence of Jesus' existence or crucifixion. Nothing in Jewish or Roman records of the period. The two references in Josephus are likely later Christian interpolations. All the evidence cited as proof of Jesus' existence and crucifixion is actually very weak, questionable, and ambiguous at best.

Now, Occams Razor might seem to point to the commonly accepted outlines of Christianity's beginnings and development having a basis in historical events. The movement itself is very real and had to have started somewhere, why not at the crucifixion of its founder, like the Christians say? That's the consensus held by the vast majority of historians, of course, but I've read at least one very compelling alternative view (www.jesuspuzzle.org).

687 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:18pm

The backbone of AKP in the countryside is the more militant party that they split from, National View. NV is to AKP as PFLP is to Fatah. There's the moderate "borderline" political party, and their militant wing in other words:

The National View (or Milli Görüş in Turkish) is an Islamist ideology developed in 1970 by Necmettin Erbakan who established the National Order (Milli Nizam) Party. This ideology was continued successively by the National Salvation (Milli Selamet) Party, the Welfare (Refah) Party, the Virtue (Fazilet) Party and finally the Felicity (Saadet) Party. All the parties preceding the Felicity Party were banned by the Constitutional Court on the grounds that they opposed secularism. The National View promotes Islamist values and opposes Israel, Zionism, the EU, the western world, the US and cosmopolitanism. Its proponents often use antisemitic motifs.

The Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkınma Partisi – AKP) split from the National View movement. While it defines itself as a conservative democratic party its ideology is Islamically oriented.

The ultra-nationalist movement is composed of: the traditional Nationalist Action Party (Milliyetçi Hareket); leftists (such as the Workers Party − İşçi Partisi), who are anti-EU, anti-US and anti-globalization; and various small nationalist groups. The movement does not have Islamist tendencies. Its supporters oppose the Justice and Development Party since they disapprove of Prime Minister Erdoğan’s pro-Israel and pro-US line.

It's an evolution, like Vlaams Blok to Vlaams Belang.

688 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:33pm

re: #632 obwon

Cedars are evergreens that don't have leaves.

Except when it's not.

Yes I know its not the same. You're just being a little broad.

689 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:34pm

re: #673 MrBlonde21

Got yer goat?

691 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:36pm

re: #663 Mars Needs Neocons

Check my first post on this one.

Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that. What're the creationists doing taking money from Hanna Barbera and then not posing the figures to best educational effect? You'd think it was a resort or something...

692 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:37pm

re: #677 MrBlonde21

?

Just wondering what the odds are that you will make 100, what with poking your finger in the owner's eye.

Finesse is the key.

693 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:41pm

re: #634 pingjockey

Large differences some lost in translation, some changed significantly. The big thing is that there was no punctuation (in the modern English sense) and that many original words in Hebrew had multiple meanings etc (and take the same consideration to the New Testament, which has the same roots though different languages/Greek/Latin etc before English). You could, for instance take the story of Ruth in it's original form and translate it into modern English with a very different slant and moral of the story etc than what is in most modern translations. Just changing punctuation changes meaning, not counting if some word used had multiple meanings and the (base) literal word may not have conveyed the meaning.

694 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:45:42pm

re: #667 Salamantis

This old creationist chestnut quote again. Lemme give it a shot...

If tornadoes had a couple of billion years to do so, and began with nuts and bolts, and whenever something worked it stayed stuck together, and, I don't know...and, just maybe, if these little mechanical pieces fucked and the best kiddie pieces got to stick around...and the junkyard rewarded things that more closely resembled functioning engines, shiny chassis and spiffy interiors with more auto kiddies...

What I am pointing out is how absurd and nonsensical the pseudoanalogy is.

What's most nonsensical is that all those parts somehow are supposed to know that they should come together to make, say, an Edsel, instead of anything else one's imagination desires.

695 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:46:12pm

Some people are just way too serious.

Good Night all

696 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:46:12pm

re: #678 Carridine
Thanks. What language was the New Testament written in? I don't know?

697 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:46:20pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

Nor were the Flintstones our past ...

}:)     [I'm not entirely sure that Southpark isn't our now, though.]

698 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:46:26pm

re: #628 OldLineTexan

600+ posts, several small dust-ups, no bannings...it's like Saturday night in Toledo...

Actually I noticed we had one disappearance on here.

699 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:46:42pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

Has anyone said shut it down?
Ideas are open for critique.

That's what LGF is a place to critique ideas.

700 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:47:02pm

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Background information, a link to the slideshow, and an example photo with a factual description.

The criticism seems to all be happening in the minds of some readers.

701 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:47:22pm

re: #637 jaunte

It is a sad turning away from things that really need doing.

Wow- what a dangerous line of thinking that is! So- as long as you have faith in the literalist interpretation, you can be that biggest asshole on earth and treat people like scum. I think it's wicked.

I reject their line of "reasoning" and will have faith in the God of Love and Compassion, that He wants me to treat others with kindness and use my brain for it's intended purpose- to seek the Truth and reject ignorance and evil.

702 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:47:43pm

MrBlonde21

Registered since: Apr 3, 2008 at 6:12 pm
No. of comments posted: 24
No. of links posted: 0

Un freaking believable. Another one.

What's the record on sleepers on one thread?

703 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:47:51pm

re: #642 Naso Tang

Quite true, for me too. I've read it rewritten many times, but the original has little resemblance to the commonly quoted versions, I think. It would seem that one interpretation could be that if you lead a good life, the end result will be the same either way.

Perhaps. Then again, only God knows what is in our hearts and in our minds and judges accordingly. It took me many years to achieve this epiphany and many more to put it into practice.

704 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:06pm

Ken Ham is a politician, with a political agenda that should be of interest to everyone who supports the Constitution. I'm glad Charles is posting about this topic, and showing the links between various groups who would prefer to work behind the scenes.

705 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:14pm

re: #684 Cognito

Let's stick to the topic.

Bite me (Mandy's much better at this. I don't think anyone can take me seriously when I'm wearing a bowler hat).

706 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:30pm

re: #673 MrBlonde21

One of the worst posts I've seen in LGF.

You musta missed the one about blondes.

707 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:33pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

That's funny; I'm a public McCain supporter, and have been for quite some time (ever since Giuliani bowed out), because I believe that it is necessary for us to oppose the forces of coercive and totalitarian ignorance. Domestically as well as internationally. But nice smear try, even if a misinformed one.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

I have indeed perused it, on their own sites. It is eminently shovelworthy. There is no credible empirical evidence that contradicts evolutionary theory. But there is a whole lot of rhetorical sophistry that wows the credulous and the gullible.

708 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:33pm

re: #186 jaunte

Here's what they're saying about vegetarian dinosaurs:
"What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants."
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

So the plants didn't die?  What, they nibbled at the edges of the leaves or something?

}:)     [Man, I hate artichoke sandwiches ... ]

709 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:48:44pm

re: #700 Charles

You meddling, sly devil you! Bwahahahaha!

710 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:12pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21
MrBlonde,

privately funded museum

is the problem. It debases the commonly-held meaning of 'museum', and in place of 'museum' puts forth privately-funded PROPAGANDA, albeit of a religious nature, AS IF it were scientifically-based or reality-based.

There's a place for religion, but repackaging it and pretending it is SCIENCE is an okey-doke, a flim-flam, a scam, Sir.

711 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:13pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

Where did it state above that Charles has a problem with the first amendment?
Charles has posted numerous threads on how creationists pass pseudo-science off as science.
This is just another in a long line of similar threads.

712 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:15pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

You can speak all you want, we can criticize all we want. The full definition of free speech.

713 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:16pm

re: #693 anotherindyfilmguy
More thanks. This whole topic had me wondering how much the originals had been changed to fit modern language.

714 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:22pm

re: #640 jcm

Whoa!

BIG SNAKE! It was worshipped as a god!

Quick! Call Conan!

715 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:49:44pm

re: #699 jcm

Has anyone said shut it down?
Ideas are open for critique.

That's what LGF is a place to critique ideas.

Actually, isn't LGF a way for Charles to vent, have fun, and hang out with friends? (Just askin'...)

716 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:01pm

re: #691 PSGInfinity

Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that. What're the creationists doing taking money from Hanna Barbera and then not posing the figures to best educational effect? You'd think it was a resort or something...

LOL

Used to be a popular stop with people headed to Mt. Rushmore. Don't know how its doing lately. I am assuming your sarc tag.

717 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:04pm

re: #679 LoafingOaf

No one's saying they don't have a right to build their museum. But surely Charles and others have a right to criticize it. Ain't that the way freedom of speech works?

Of course, criticism is ok, but what is the point of criticizing this museum when the issue lies elsewhere? What exactly is wrong with this museum? This post implied that this should be as much of a concern as the ID agenda being pushed into public schools (which I oppose, btw). It's not the same issue at all and it was a poor choice on Charles' part to make it seem that way.

718 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:04pm

re: #700 Charles

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Charles, you're better than that.

Enough critical posts in a row sets up a context.

If it's not criticism, then what -- as I asked in the post you 'down-dinged' -- exactly is the point?

719 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:12pm

re: #700 Charles

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Background information, a link to the slideshow, and an example photo with a factual description.

The criticism seems to all be happening in the minds of some readers.

One would say almost Pavlovian, huh?

}:)     [What we commonly call a knee jerk reaction, in other words ... ]

720 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:13pm

re: #624 NemoParticularis

They do. The Albanians and Kosovars eat pork and have more bars per square mile than we do.

They finally got out from under some bad dictator(s)' thumb and cut loose.

721 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:25pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

I've been under the impression that Charles has been fairly anti-idiot no matter what faith is involved. The folks he is highlighting are, imo, attempting to create and perpetuate their own version of reality that flies in the face of all evidence because they are literalistic in their interpretation of the Bible etc. But then once on that path there is no pleasing everyone and a lot of people will get annoyed with him for it.

722 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:27pm

re: #698 Mars Needs Neocons
We did? Missed it, oh disappearance or banned?

723 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:29pm

re: #659 Cognito

Charles, I can't help but wonder what the point is, here.

These people have a museum -- privately funded, entirely devoid of violence -- dedicated to their beliefs. More power to them, I say.

I thought the point of all this debate was to overthrow the proponents of publicly funded teaching of Intelligent Design, while -- ostensibly -- respecting the beliefs of honest people.

Have at it, if it suits you, of course. But once you've decided to take on every snippet of faith that seems illogical, well... you've set yourself a long task.

Time for you to break away from the pack and start your own blog.

724 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:50pm

re: #602 Catttt

I take exception to all that "everyone was a vegetarian until Adam sinned" nonsense. Cats NEVER ate veggies. /

If anything, from a feline point of view, the existence of vegan cat foods are conclusive proof of human depravity corrupting God's Plan for Creation.

725 Ben-Ami  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:50pm

re: #36 Salamantis

This guy belings in deliverance, behind a banjo:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Naw, if my parents dragged me to the Creation Museum, I'd wanna ride the triceratops, too. I just wonder if it they have one that moved...

726 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:50:56pm

re: #700 Charles

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Background information, a link to the slideshow, and an example photo with a factual description.

The criticism seems to all be happening in the minds of some readers.

A point that is, indeed, lost on many of the hotspurs in this neck of the woods. As for me...I like the chit chat, the give-and-take, the pointless persiflage of it all.

Sure beats daytime TV.

727 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:51:04pm

re: #659 Cognito

These people have a museum -- privately funded, entirely devoid of violence -- dedicated to their beliefs. More power to them, I say.

My problem with the museum is that its mission is to convince young people that science is a lie. And don't be so sure that it isn't "publicly funded" or at least subsidized. If the museum is associated with any sort of religious organization there might be a 501(c)(3) involved.

728 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:51:18pm

re: #723 gman

Time for you to break away from the pack and start your own blog.

No thanks.

729 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:51:19pm

re: #661 A Kiwi Infidel

Yous wanna meet the young'uns? Come out here, Abigail, Ruth, Donna, Becky, Debbey, Hank, Luke, Matthew, Joan, Bobby-Mae, Billy-bob, Henry, Harry, Walter, Barbara, Angus, Heath, Noah, Abraham, John, Paul, Ringo, Benson, Hedges, Rose, April, June, Jessie, Ken, Boris, Tess, Thomas, Rupert, Mark, Timothy, Obidiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Ricky-lee, Wayne, Heidi, Cathy, Celia, Felicity, Gareth, George, Hank, Issac, Jethro, Leo, Lucy,ellisa..............


So - are you saying they're edible? /

730 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:51:21pm

re: #706 M. Bensson-Levi



You musta missed the one about blondes.

Ohhh! yeah that was classic.

731 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:51:52pm

re: #705 Walter L. Newton

Bite me (Mandy's much better at this. I don't think anyone can take me seriously when I'm wearing a bowler hat).

Oh I disagree ... for example, where would we start? How much? Do you provide the catsup, mustard, onions, and arugula? Is the hat up for grabs? Who brought the beer?

732 Quintus_Arius[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:00pm
733 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:06pm

re: #703 NemoParticularis

Perhaps. Then again, only God knows what is in our hearts and in our minds and judges accordingly. It took me many years to achieve this epiphany and many more to put it into practice.

....and of course basing ones decisions on a coin flip will have to be the kiss of death, since the fake sincerity will be well known.

734 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:11pm

re: #700 Charles

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Background information, a link to the slideshow, and an example photo with a factual description.

The criticism seems to all be happening in the minds of some readers.

"Here’s a slideshow of all the pictures. I recommend absorbing the entire message."

Certainly it was certainly implied. Especially in the context of the past posts concerning the topic.

735 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:19pm

re: #668 Killgore Trout

Wonder boy

Perfect! I love that song.

736 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:22pm

re: #700 Charles

The oddest thing about all these people freaking out over this post is that there isn't one word of actual criticism in my post.

Background information, a link to the slideshow, and an example photo with a factual description.

The criticism seems to all be happening in the minds of some readers.

Touchiness on a topic is a fairly sure sign of either insecurity or being otherwise offended/challenged...

If the foot fits, shoe it... or something like that...
=)
Night all.

737 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:26pm

re: #664 Naso Tang

Then I did mistake your tone and apologize.

My question is more rhetorical.
The point that I try to make is that "religion" is unprovable. It is faith. I can't prove the existence of God, therefore I can't prove His hand in creation. Evolution is science and works on those principles. I believe that God created all things but, I don't know how He did it. I don't know or understand all the tenets of evolution so I can't speak to it's veracity. Frankly, I don't care. It doesn't shake my faith. It doesn't shake my faith because, though I hold to the Bible as the Word of God, I know that we don't know the entire story. The purpose of the Old Testament is to show that we need a savior. The purpose of the New Testament is to show that the Savior came. The Bible contains history but, it isn't a history book. It contains science but it isn't a science manual. It's the story of God's love.
What bothers me is that some Christians want to go to war over the issue and they aren't necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum.

738 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:42pm

re: #717 MrBlonde21

Of course, criticism is ok, but what is the point of criticizing this museum when the issue lies elsewhere? What exactly is wrong with this museum? This post implied that this should be as much of a concern as the ID agenda being pushed into public schools (which I oppose, btw). It's not the same issue at all and it was a poor choice on Charles' part to make it seem that way.

Intelligent Design is creationism in a lab coat. Not in a lab - just in a lab coat.

739 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:52:55pm

re: #696 pingjockey

Thanks. What language was the New Testament written in? I don't know?


Originally in Greek, as Aramaic does not have, even today, a written form, Ping. Jesus spoke Aramaic. Early believers wrote in Greek.

740 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:04pm

re: #730 jcm

Ohhh! yeah that was classic.

LOL! That's great!

741 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:18pm

re: #729 Catttt

So - are you saying they're edible? /

...And do they complement our main course of Walter Newton?

742 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:25pm

re: #339 texasjihad

re: #310 kansas

WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

tj: It is key to a Christian world view. It also is clearly a complicating factor to the idea that random things tend to result in improvement.

Yeah; they believe that Eden was perfection, and it's all been downhill since the Fall. Except for that Jesus thing, and He didn't stick around too long.

But evolutionary theory doesn't talk about improvement in abstract or general terms; it talks about organisms evolving to better fill particular ecological niches. Evolution doesn't entail improvement. And while mutations are indeed random, the selective environmental forces that act upon populations of randomly mutating organisms are not random.

743 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:31pm

re: #623 sparrowlake

re: #445 IRQ Conflict
Is that all there is?
BTW According to Genesis:1:26 God created Man and Woman on the sixth day of creation, so how does that square with the various claims in your post which all seem to hinge on a mistaken belief that man had to have been in existence from the beginning of creation? I am no biblical scholar, but it seems obvious that Jesus must have meant "the beginning of creation" of man i.e. day 6, being the last day of creation, not the beginning.


Live by the literalist sword, die by the literalist sword?

744 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:36pm

re: #209 Pastorius

#197 Kansas,
I have spoken with people in Kansas who say this kind of Christianity is pretty rampant in that part of the country.

Hell, I've driven through that part of the country.  It can be farkin' scarey.

}:)     [ ... Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri ... ]

745 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:48pm

re: #740 M. Bensson-Levi

LOL! That's great!

My sister (blonde) hangs that in her cube at work.....

746 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:53:56pm

re: #732 Quintus_Arius

Charles, you are the owner of LGF. You certainly can post what you want. You have made that clear. But it really is time to move on. I think you should get back to taking on CAIR. Which never excited me either, by the way.

Do you have an uncontrollable compulsion to be here until the thread dies?

747 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:05pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go,

I wonder what would happen to a 12 year old kid out in the parking lot who told his mom and dad he didn't want to go in because it was stupid to think people might have ever co-existed with Dinosaurs.

748 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:11pm

re: #741 PSGInfinity

...And do they complement our main course of Walter Newton?

If they are bite-sized and crunchy - yes.

749 rawmuse  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:26pm

Yo ho, ho, Lizards. I came down from the trees today to see this event.

It was well worth it.

750 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:35pm

More on AKP/ NV and their publications:

Numerous books by the Turkish Islamist Adnan Oktar, aka Adnan Hodja, are on display in almost every bookstore, under the pseudonym Harun Yahya. His revisionist writings focusing on Jews and Israel are rife with false accusations and caricatures. It should be noted, however, that Adnan Oktar has undergone a change and become more tolerant toward Jews and others; he now works toward promoting inter-religious dialogue.

Two books published in 2004, Turkey under the Threat of Israel and Zionism, by the nationalist Cemal Anadol and The Wooden Sword of the Jew, by Mustafa Akgün, a columnist of Milli Gazete, were under judicial investigation (see below). Anadol’s tract is an attack on world Jewry, taking the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a starting point. Both books are filled with well-known conspiracy theories about the Jews in general and with libelous claims about Jews living in Turkey in particular.

Translations of classic antisemitic tracts such as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Henry Ford’s International Jew and Hitler’s Mein Kampf are sold at well-known bookstores. Mein Kampf, a best-seller printed by various publishing houses, is apparently subsidized and sold very cheaply.

751 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:39pm

re: #720 Capitalist Tool

They do. The Albanians and Kosovars eat pork and have more bars per square mile than we do.

They finally got out from under some bad dictator(s)' thumb and cut loose.

I'm familiar with the predilections of the Kosovars and Albanians, Mr. Tool - it is my understanding that the Kosovars are intensely pro-American and have even erected (pardon the pun) a statue in honor of Bill Clinton.

And yes...in my book they are "good" Mohammedans - as long as they stay well-behaved, with bellies full of pork and beer.

752 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:40pm

re: #744 Kulhwch

Hell, I've driven through that part of the country.  It can be farkin' scarey.

}:)     [ ... Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri ... ]

Try flying over Texas. We don't mind.

753 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:55pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

Is there a special Veterinary WAAAAAH-mbulance to treat gored oxen?

754 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:54:57pm

I'm getting this from Stephen Roth btw.

755 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:55:02pm

re: #747 Mich-again

I wonder what would happen to a 12 year old kid out in the parking lot who told his mom and dad he didn't want to go in because it was stupid to think people might have ever co-existed with Dinosaurs.

I think we should certainly intervene, then.

Perhaps state regulation will set things aright.

756 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:55:18pm

re: #738 Catttt

Intelligent Design is creationism in a lab coat. Not in a lab - just in a lab coat.

Agreed, that's not the issue here.

757 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:55:30pm

NYTOL

758 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:55:38pm

Seriously, the cave girl with the dino creeped me out.

And where did she get her woven cloth dress? CaveGirlMart?

759 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:55:39pm

re: #723 gman

Time for you to break away from the pack and start your own blog.

Cognito couldn't do that. He wouldn't get through writing an entry without arguing with himself.

760 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:12pm

re: #345 texasjihad

re: #335 gman

You have no idea what you talk about.
Waving your brush in broad strokes to deal with everything you disagree with leads not to knowledge but continued ignorance.

tj: And you provide so much light? Gimme a brake.

Canebrake? Automobile brake?

761 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:13pm

re: #723 gman

Time for you to break away from the pack and start your own blog.

A capital idea! I promise to visit, Cogs. Really.

Alrighty then you have plenty of work to do let me help you get your things careful on the back steps - I noticed they're a little loose okay, off you go see ya!

*waves*

762 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:15pm

re: #716 Mars Needs Neocons

LOL

Used to be a popular stop with people headed to Mt. Rushmore. Don't know how its doing lately. I am assuming your sarc tag.

Correct! Thanks for letting me try to lighten things up! Driving through the Black Hills is on the Lifetime To-Do List. I'll remember that I can educate the kids as well.
;)

763 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:24pm

re: #699 jcm

What I got from the post is that the museum is very well produced, and presumably well-funded, just as are the efforts to introduce similar Biblical-literalism-inspired "intelligent design" into the public school curriculum.

764 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:27pm

re: #735 Sharmuta

;)

765 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:31pm

re: #751 NemoParticularis

Pork mention wins link: [Link: www.marriedtothesea.com...]

766 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:45pm

Before you post a comment telling me not to write any more on this subject, be aware that any such comments will be deleted.

767 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:52pm

re: #739 Carridine
Thanks much. Okay, if Aramaic doesn't have a wriiten form, did the writers of the New Testament convert it to Greek phonetically? I will get this all figured out with y'alls help, eventually.:)

768 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:56pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

Cognito couldn't do that. He wouldn't get through writing an entry without arguing with himself.

I was just thinking the same thing myself. GMTA

:D

769 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:57pm

re: #761 Noam Sayin'

Like I said, let's stick to the topic.

It's far more interesting.

770 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:56:57pm

Let us create man in our own image.

771 Racer X  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:00pm

re: #724 Throbert McGee

If anything, from a feline point of view, the existence of vegan cat foods are conclusive proof of human depravity corrupting God's Plan for Creation.

I was under the impression that cats MUST eat meat. Dogs can be veg, but cats have to have meat in their diet or they get ill.

772 Purple Prose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:01pm

re: #515 Charles

Discovery Institute takes a slap at me:

[Link: www.evolutionnews.org...]

Creation Ministries International takes a slap at me:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

Kudos for being consistently anti-idiotarian!

773 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:22pm
774 rawmuse  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:35pm

"Left Behind" was also well produced, and has lots of followers.
Doesn't mean I buy it. ;)

775 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:35pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

Cognito couldn't do that. He wouldn't get through writing an entry without arguing with himself.

He is kind of the Hamlet of commenters isn't he? Keen observation Walter.

776 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:57:37pm

re: #758 Catttt

Seriously, the cave girl with the dino creeped me out.

And where did she get her woven cloth dress? CaveGirlMart?

spontaneous generation

777 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:06pm

re: #733 Naso Tang

....and of course basing ones decisions on a coin flip will have to be the kiss of death, since the fake sincerity will be well known.

Indeed, Mr. Tang. I suspect that our friend Blaise intended his pensees to be the point from which the prospective believer begins the journey - as opposed to the occasion for a flip of the coin, no?

778 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:11pm

re: #771 Racer X

That's very true. People who feed their cats this crap are slowly killing their pets, plain and simple. My dad works in an animal shelter and he has seen what this stuff does to a cat. Its not pretty.

779 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:28pm

Crap. He's still here.

...

Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice!

780 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:34pm

re: #722 pingjockey

We did? Missed it, oh disappearance or banned?

Not sure the post is deleted. Don't know if it was a banning or not.

#552 calculatorjockey I don't know why Charles has such a hard on about all this creationism, ID carrying on all of a sudden. Is this a mid-life crisis? I guess I can check in again when we are discussing the jihadis and what to do about them.

I would say its just deleted for telling Charles what to post, but as smarmy as this one was, deletion could be a good thing.

781 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:37pm

Got to tell you, Charles, I'm surprised at that.

C'est la blog.

782 RTLM  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:58:44pm

That Allosaurus is a bit small...

These debates are ridiculous and pointless. No one is convincing anyone of an opposite view. Its just contest to see who can strike most often with a "clue-by 4". Evolution is a fact - OK. But maybe we can just agree to disagree and move on. We are all on the same team right?
There's some hysterical political mockery we're missing out on.

Besides, everyone knows the world will end on 12/21/12.

/

783 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:12pm

re: #766 Charles

These threads are pretty interesting to see what comes out of the woodwork.

Wu!

really good night now

784 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:22pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others out of their wallets, their reason, and their peace of mind.

Fixed that for you.

}:)     [It was the good Xian thing to do ... ]

785 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:26pm

re: #771 Racer X

I was under the impression that cats MUST eat meat. Dogs can be veg, but cats have to have meat in their diet or they get ill.

Damn straight they do.

786 Opilio  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:36pm

re: #680 Walter L. Newton

But, a lot of people like beating up on you, so have fun.

I thought that that was the point.

He shows up, professes contrary views to whatever is being discussed, and rope-a-dopes when asked the tough questions.

All-in-all, a juvenile attention-seeking behavior.

787 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:53pm

re: #670 MrBlonde21

What exactly is the problem here? It's a privately funded museum, no one is forced to go, it states very explicit that the presentation is from a BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, and many people (religious and not) find it interesting.

Clearly, the guy who runs this site (Charles right?) is taking issue with this place because of personal prejudice. Are citizens of this country entitled to free speech or not?

A little hypocritical, don't you think?

People complain about Charles' site. Does Charles complain that they criticize him? No, when he complains it is because they LIE about this site and slander him. On the other hand, when Charles criticizes others, he does it with facts and often with their own words (IN CONTEXT).

What good is freedom of speech if it means we can't criticize the ideas and beliefs of others, no matter how "honestly" or "dearly" they are held or how "good and decent and simple" the people are who hold them? If you have convictions but can't take the heat of them being criticized, I'm not sure a freewheeling, rough-and-tumble liberal democracy that guarantees freedom of speech for all is the place for you. You might be better off in a utopia of some kind. (Good luck finding one.)

788 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 8:59:55pm

re: #775 Thanos

He is kind of the Hamlet of commenters isn't he? Keen observation Walter.

Thanks.

789 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:02pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

Mommy Life and Daddy Life?

It was a romantic evening, and Mommy Life put on some music while Daddy Life chilled the champagne...then a thunderstorm blew up, and they began to feel all energized and frisky, so they decided to lock the doors, turn off the porch light and unplug the phone, and...

790 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:07pm

Charles- I sure hope you're able to sleep alright tonight knowing that cognito is disappointed in you.

/

791 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:09pm

re: #766 Charles
That is the first one of those in a couple of days. Hey did George Slivers get whacked? He isn't here for this thread. :( ////

792 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:14pm

re: #748 Catttt

If they are bite-sized and crunchy - yes.

Outstanding! I'll bring the sprouts and the arugula (this is DC after all). And Corona. We're very fond of our Corona...

793 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:17pm

Opinion piece on AKP:

[Link: www.turkishdailynews.com.tr...]

794 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:20pm

re: #765 jaunte

Pork mention wins link: [Link: www.marriedtothesea.com...]

Mmmmmmmmm....pork....the other white meat.

795 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:54pm

Dear Stupid Cocksuckers at AOL:

You have a really sucky system nowadays.

AND, THAT'S SAYING A LOT.

796 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:00:57pm

re: #781 Cognito

I have no idea why you'd be surprised, unless you haven't been paying attention. I've posted that notice at least a dozen times.

797 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:01:14pm

re: #734 MrBlonde21
Well, then, Mr B, refute any of the points made AGAINST said 'museum' or show why posting the link in the first place is somehow wrong, inappropriate, unconnected with other Creationist and Islamic-creation efforts, or the like.

798 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:01:43pm

re: #737 theparson

Then I did mistake your tone and apologize.

No problem. It is a rare skill that can post succinctly and emote correctly at the same time. I don't have it.

Your faith was not being questioned, and I have no desire to do so. I was simply curious regarding your experience with people of faith, particularly "parsons". ;)

Personally I know many (not Parsons however), but being an atheist I tend to avoid such topics, as risking friendships is not worth the stimulation of a good argument. The thing is however, that I don't find faith insulting to me, but many find atheism insulting to them.

Anyway; topic for another day perhaps, it's midnight here and past my bedtime.

Goodnight.

799 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:01:47pm

re: #758 Catttt

Seriously, the cave girl with the dino creeped me out.

And where did she get her woven cloth dress? CaveGirlMart?

See my #541

800 FamHistoryGuy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:01:51pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

20mm, H. E. I.

801 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:01:51pm

re: #781 Cognito

Got to tell you, Charles, I'm surprised at that.

C'est la blog.

Oh, go to hell. If you have been paying attention, you wouldn't be surprised at all. You must be a real joy in person.

802 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:02:15pm

re: #795 MandyManners

Dear Stupid Cocksuckers at AOL:You have a really sucky system nowadays. AND, THAT'S SAYING A LOT.

Yikes. This kitten's got claws.

803 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:02:35pm

re: #763 Dar ul Harb

What I got from the post is that the museum is very well produced, and presumably well-funded, just as are the efforts to introduce similar Biblical-literalism-inspired "intelligent design" into the public school curriculum.

It is all those things, $27 million in funding was linked up thread.

804 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:02:48pm

re: #648 jaunte

Well, remember the human-lifetime timescale. Maybe in a billion years, a million million Ralls might scrawl something better.

OK, I'll concede that point. And since Ted has no soul, can we infer he'll be undead for awhile?

805 rawmuse  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:02:54pm

I think I saw my sister getting out of that bus...

806 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:03:11pm

re: #755 Cognito

Perhaps state regulation will set things aright.

Do you mean state regulation as in the Feds or the Commonwealth? Because I'm sure in either case there are already enough regulations in place. But their jurisdictions are different.

807 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:03:13pm

re: #795 MandyManners

Dear Stupid Cocksuckers at AOL:

You have a really sucky system nowadays.

AND, THAT'S SAYING A LOT.

Friends don't let friends use AOL.

808 Kulhwch  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:03:27pm

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anybody who quotes Bill Hicks gets an up-ding from me.

"And the dinosaur became his friend ... "

}:)     [And lo, it was a big farkin' lizard ... ]

809 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:03:50pm

re: #796 Charles

I have no idea why you'd be surprised, unless you haven't been paying attention. I've posted that notice at least a dozen times.

I haven't told you what to post, Charles, by any stretch. I simply asked what the point is, with this post, since it's a privately funded museum that doesn't condone anything resembling violence.

You might have answered with any number of reasons. Or you might have ignored it. But I'm surprised you deleted the question.

But again: Such is the nature of the blog. It's yourn, as Sheriff Taylor might say.

810 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:06pm

Adios, adios, que te vaya bien,
que te pise un bus
que te mate un tren

Good night.

811 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:44pm

re: #645 beachkatie

I've heard a rumor that Cal. is going to disappear from the continental USA .. is that real?

California Splits along the San Andreas Fault
Excerpt:

Actually, western California is considered part of the Pacific Plate and, over the next several million years, will break away from the mainland and drift steadily northward.
812 Opilio  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:49pm

Alas, Quintus_Arius, we hardly knew ye...

813 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:50pm

re: #777 NemoParticularis

Indeed, Mr. Tang. I suspect that our friend Blaise intended his pensees to be the point from which the prospective believer begins the journey - as opposed to the occasion for a flip of the coin, no?

I certainly hope so. He was to brilliant for anything else, but then so was Darwin, and look at how he has been misinterpreted by many.

Nite.

814 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:52pm
#732 Quintus_Arius

Buh Bye for now Quintus. (moron)

815 Racer X  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:04:58pm

Personally I have no problem with a private group opening up this museum. There are 427,000 other museums out there that tell a different story. To each his own.

816 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:01pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

Cognito couldn't do that. He wouldn't get through writing an entry without arguing with himself.

...But aren't those the best arguments - when the voices in your head turn it up to eleven?

817 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:07pm

re: #795 MandyManners

Dear Stupid Cocksuckers at AOL:

You have a really sucky system nowadays.

AND, THAT'S SAYING A LOT.

That's kind of insulting to cocksuckers, dontcha think?

818 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:07pm

re: #803 jcm

It is all those things, $27 million in funding was linked up thread.

$27 million is a lot of robot dinosaurs and Cro-magnons.

819 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:21pm

re: #374 kc8ukw

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

It would be kinda hard to find a real (not sell-out shill) scientist in a relevant field who would be willing to argue on the side of the Disco Institute.

820 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:28pm

re: #804 PSGInfinity

Maybe he's the dark matter...

821 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:29pm

re: #806 Mich-again

Do you mean state regulation as in the Feds or the Commonwealth? Because I'm sure in either case there are already enough regulations in place. But their jurisdictions are different.

Ah... that was sarcasm, Mich.

We don't need to regulate parents' religious teachings, as that pretty well flies against the very foundations of our country.

I'm hoping you were being sarcastic, as well.

822 NemoParticularis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:05:29pm

Adieu, dear friends. Sleep soundly and dream happily.

823 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:06:51pm

re: #817 Catttt

That's kind of insulting to cocksuckers, dontcha think?

/

824 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:06:53pm

re: #717 MrBlonde21

Of course, criticism is ok, but what is the point of criticizing this museum when the issue lies elsewhere? What exactly is wrong with this museum? This post implied that this should be as much of a concern as the ID agenda being pushed into public schools (which I oppose, btw). It's not the same issue at all and it was a poor choice on Charles' part to make it seem that way.

This museum exists to spread the kind of disinformation that makes the public, and school boards, and state legislatures, and state governors, etc. more receptive to the arguments of I.D. advocates. It exists to further dumb down the population and increase scientific illiteracy and ignorance. It is part and parcel with the I.D. "wedge" strategy. It is indeed part of the same issue, even if it's not the specific part that's in violation of the Constitution.

825 Cognito  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:02pm

re: #788 Walter L. Newton

Thanks.

I wouldn't feel too proud, there, Walter.

You've not offered so much as a tidbit of substance regarding the subject. Standing aside and tossing off personal barbs doesn't count.

826 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:12pm

re: #816 PSGInfinity

...But aren't those the best arguments - when the voices in your head turn it up to eleven?

Mine go up to 12. Spinal Tap rocks.

827 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:17pm

re: #817 Catttt

That's kind of insulting to cocksuckers, dontcha think?

Absolutely! DING DING DING! Say no more. Say no more.
(/Especially me, since I'll likely get slapped)

828 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:28pm

re: #823 Capitalist Tool

/

Well, someone has to stick up for them. No pun intended.

829 lolTeenager  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:31pm

It's a little sad that no one ever talks about people who believe in a mix of science and religion. I'm curios, does the museum completely and totally ignore evolution science?

830 MrBlonde21  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:43pm

re: #797 Carridine

Well, then, Mr B, refute any of the points made AGAINST said 'museum' or show why posting the link in the first place is somehow wrong, inappropriate, unconnected with other Creationist and Islamic-creation efforts, or the like.

It's not wrong. It's the way it was presented, and given the context of the previous posts about evolution, it placed this museum in a very negative light. That is poor journalism. It's manipulative.

This museum is not treading on your rights like the ID agenda or Islamic-creation efforts are.

831 NY Nana  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:07:45pm

re: #603 Killian Bundy

This POS bastard, Ted Rall?

832 rawmuse  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:03pm

I went to a Slavery museum once. It was in Chicago. It made all white people out to be devils. I think they got tax payer money for it too. It pissed me off. This museum also pisses me off, but less. The remainder of my life will be spent trying not to get pissed off. I'll let you know how that goes.

833 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:24pm

re: #825 Cognito

I wouldn't feel too proud, there, Walter.

You've not offered so much as a tidbit of substance regarding the subject. Standing aside and tossing off personal barbs doesn't count.

Bollocks (I'm practicing my British insults).

834 LoafingOaf  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:26pm

re: #818 Dar ul Harb

$27 million is a lot of robot dinosaurs and Cro-magnons.

I have to admit the museum actually looks like it costs considerably more than $27 million. Not that I have any idea how much animatronic dinosaurs and hot-looking Eves cost.

835 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:31pm

re: #831 NY Nana

That's the lower form of life, yes.

836 Catttt  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:38pm

I'm really bummed. They don't have the Kitchen/Orgy clip on youtube anymore where Thulsa Doom turns into a big snake.

837 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:39pm

re: #818 Dar ul Harb

$27 million is a lot of robot dinosaurs and Cro-magnons.

You have to wonder how many children could have been fed with that money. Or have been provided with medicines, shelter, school supplies, clothing.

Again- it's their right to spend it on a whacknut "museum" if they want to, but it's also my right to think they choose poorly.

838 PSGInfinity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:08:53pm

re: #820 jaunte

Maybe he's the dark matter...

Would explain the wobbles in the earth's orbit...

839 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:09:58pm

Stop it Catttt

My desk chair is broken and real precarious and if I laugh any harder I'll be on the floor.

840 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:09:58pm

re: #739 Carridine

Originally in Greek, as Aramaic does not have, even today, a written form

Erm, I've been reliably informed that the original written language of the Book of Daniel was Aramaic, rather than Hebrew.

But you might be correct (I'm not sure) that among Jews of Jesus's generation, literacy in Aramaic had temporarily died out, with the language being used in that era only for everyday spoken communication.

841 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:10:03pm

re: #380 texasjihad

My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either.

What is really funny is to watch you ask questions for which you falselythink you have the all-purpose, one-size-fits-all answer (GodDidItTM), and then watch people giving you back a whole bunch of different types of genuine answers, one type for each question.

842 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:10:28pm

re: #795 MandyManners

I got my mom to stop using AOL after it irreversibly corrupted the hard drive and caused total data loss. And my grandmother went through hell with those when they kept billing my late grandfather for 1 1/2 years after he died. AOL sucked then and I'm sure it sucks now.

843 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 9:10:29pm
California Splits along it's the San Andreas Fault

Just seemed to fit the California victimology idea.