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The Creation Museum

Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:10:21 pm PDT

Before we get to the real point of this post, here’s some background information on the Creation Museum in Kentucky:

The Creation Museum is a 60,000 square foot museum in the United States designed to promote young Earth creationism. The museum presents an account of the origins of the universe, life, mankind, and man’s early history according to a literal reading of the book of Genesis. Its exhibits reject evolution and assert that the Earth and all of its life forms were created 6000 years ago over a six-day period, and that man and dinosaurs once coexisted.

These views disagree with well in excess of 99.9% of the scientists in relevant fields. Also, the museum exhibits are at odds with the vast majority of scientists who accept that the Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, and that the dinosaurs became extinct 65.5 million years before human beings arose. The museum has generated criticism by the scientific community, several groups of educators, Christian groups opposed to young Earth creationism, and in the general press.

The museum, which is said to have cost $27 million, is privately-funded through donations to the apologetics ministry Answers in Genesis and opened its doors to the public on May 28, 2007. Based on projections, the museum anticipated 250,000 paying visitors in its first year of operation. According to AiG, within its first month attendance surpassed 100,000 visitors by July 21, 2007 and 200,000 visitors on September 20, 2007. Visitor attendance also exceeded first year expectations only 5 months and 5 days after opening, with a total of 250,000 visitors on November 2, 2007.

The museum was originally marketed as the Creation Museum and Family Discovery Center. It opened in late Spring of 2007 as the “Creation Museum.” The museum is located in Petersburg, Kentucky, near the Greater Cincinnati International Airport on 49 acres of land; the Answers in Genesis main offices are attached to the museum. The facility’s stated mission is to “exalt Jesus Christ as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer,” to “equip Christians to better evangelize the lost,” and to “challenge visitors to receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.”

According to the founder of Answers in Genesis, Ken Ham, “One of the main reasons we moved there was because we are within one hour’s flight of 69 per cent of America’s population.” Ham also explains how the idea of the museum originated: “Australia’s not really the place to build such a facility if you’re going to reach the world. Really, America is.” Previously Ham worked for the Institute for Creation Research, which runs a creationist museum in Santee, California, with free admission.

With that introduction, a reader emailed a link to a Flickr photo essay by “astropop,” who visited the Creation Museum with a good camera and a good eye.

Here we see an animatronic cave girl happily coexisting with an animatronic vegetarian allosaur.

Here’s a slideshow of all the pictures. I recommend absorbing the entire message.

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1300 comments

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1 Indefatigable  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:12:42pm

Where to begin...

2 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:12:48pm

So what? sort of a Jurasic Park thing.

3 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:14:57pm

It's a free country. They can make fools of themselves. Bad for everyone as educational standards decline. This stuff is like Kudzu.

4 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:15:37pm

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

5 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:15:55pm

A museum dedicated to bat-shattery and superstition.

I hope there are no tax dollars being contributed to that. (Yea, right!)

6 Cartman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:18pm

Damn. I was looking forward to spending a couple of hours here during LGF prime time. This stuff just ain't my cup of tea. Guess I'll come back later. *sigh*

7 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:40pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Wait, what are you trying to tell me?.....

8 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:52pm

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

9 Steffan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:56pm

Well, it's like the man said:

A fool and his money are soon parted.

10 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:16:59pm
11 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:17:04pm

re: #2 grumpy old codger

So what? sort of a Jurasic Park thing.

More like Jurassic Eden...

12 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:17:50pm
13 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:02pm

Wait, wait, I though that Elvis was everywhere? I am so confused....

14 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:05pm

And the really sad thing is these people actually believe this nonsense. It's scary how so many people so easily turn off their brains to believe this. Almost as scary as the thought that they vote in our elections.

15 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:18:18pm

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

I want to know what's in the gift shop.

See the slideshow. It's all there.

16 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:27pm

re: #14 mossley

And the really sad thing is these people actually believe this nonsense. It's scary how so many people so easily turn off their brains to believe this. Almost as scary as the thought that they vote in our elections.

Well, these "scary" people may offset the other "scary" people, who really scare me. One of the bennies of a democracy.

17 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:30pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Ulcer-free over here! I think this stuff is interesting, and an important issue, believe it or not.

18 mbruce  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:41pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

Apollo 14 Astronaut says, yeah ET's been here dude
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

19 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:19:55pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Guess you wouldn't see a problem with a stadium sized mosque either, as long as it's constructed with private funds.

Anyway, Charles didn't say there's a "problem." But the existence of such a museum, and its popularity, is a pretty good barometer of the level of scientific ignorance in this country. And frankly, it's a bit scary.

20 CIA Reject  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:34pm

These people are either very naive and are (erroneously) reading the Bible as a history book, or they are cynically Evil and they are mocking Faith.

I'm not sure which, but the article has reminded me that I need to take out the trash so I'll take my leave now

Cheers!

21 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:37pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Charles,
Stop getting an ulcer over this! Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here? If people think that buying lottery tix are the way to get rich, so what.
Or you and i could chip in and make an amusement park in, say, CA. We could call it Allah Land and fill it up with interesting amusing things, such as here is the big Mo ordering the execution of whoever, deflowering Aisha, etc..

I think you're not supposed to tell Charles what to post on his blog.

22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:20:53pm
23 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:21:15pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

We could call it La-La Land. We could have a stoning booth and a clitorcetomy clinic and an sword amputation block.

The possibilities are endless....

The acid throwing street, where you get to throw acid in the faces of un-veiled whores.

Mohammed meets Disney!

24 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:21:35pm

re: #7 mbruce

Wait, what are you trying to tell me?.....

Well, it looks like the Wright City one went out of business (The Man probably got to them when they got too close to the truth).

But there's another one in hattiesburg, Mississippi

25 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:16pm

It's a museum in Kentucky..
The story line writes itself..
/OK it's the law that Hoosiers have to tease our neighbors

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:16pm

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

27 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:22:58pm

re: #4 Palandine

Goofy, but as long as it's _privately_ funded, I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

There's a "museum" in Wright City, Missouri, dedicated to the proposition that Elvis is alive.

Is anyone trying to get the "Elvis is alive" nonsense taught as fact in public schools?

28 Paul  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:16pm

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

29 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:22pm

I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry at this. Maybe both.

30 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:27pm

re: #16 grumpy old codger

Well, these "scary" people may offset the other "scary" people, who really scare me. One of the bennies of a democracy.


Well, if you want to live in the Dark Ages, that's your problem. The problem for the rest of the country is that you take everyone else down with you.

31 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:42pm

That was truly disturbing. Ignorance at a level I could have only imagined.

32 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:24:59pm

re: #17 Charles

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

33 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:25:36pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

They ate the others?

34 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:25:54pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.

35 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:14pm

re: #19 Tigger2005

Guess you wouldn't see a problem with a stadium sized mosque either, as long as it's constructed with private funds.

Well, that's an interesting jump, but if they've got the money and the zoning and the will of the people, there's nothing LEGALLY stopping them, regardless of what I may like. I live a mile from the recently infamous south St. Louis 100-foot prayer tower (update: it's finished and the bottom 10 feet have been painted minty green: a classy combination with the mosque itself, which is a converted 1970s bank building). I don't like it, but apparently it's okay with the neighborhood and the law.

36 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:16pm

This guy belings in deliverance, behind a banjo:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

37 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:33pm

Okay, as a Christian, I have to admit I have some loopy brethren. But, I also believe that places like this (and there are some here in CA) that pander to these beliefs--a bit like "Heritage USA" (groan). No matter how hard you try to convince them, they will not let go.

They look at me funny and doubt my salvation if I don't accept the "young Earth" fantasy. Funny thing, faith. They cannot understand that my faith isn't anchored to whether or not carbon dating is accurate. It's based on a certain Jewish carpenter who self-resuscitated 2,000 years ago. Everything else is subject to discussion.

I posted this on another thread, but this is still a great quote:

I tell you Sid, that one of these days we'll look in to our microscope and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to lose his testicles.

-Peter O'Toole in Creator

38 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:26:47pm

re: #27 mossley

You could check in Memphis. ;)

39 Grand Poobah  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:11pm

I see this, and I first frown, because how much money was spent doing this travesty?

My second impulse is to simply say "Well, we can keep the museum, if it's private, and let these people alone with their own beliefs."

I am certainly not condoning this belief, I don't like this sort of thing myself because it implies that faith and science cannot go hand in hand, which is not true.

In any event, I find the whole thing depressing.

40 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:20pm

re: #34 jaunte

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.


The flood ruined the veggie crop that year.

41 theheat  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:37pm

In my Creation Museum, the dinosaur has already eaten the girl for lunch and is looking for her parents for dinner. I guess my version is a little more exciting, at least from a visitor's standpoint.

I mean, if you're going to do something as ridiculous as the Creation Museum, you may as well pull out all the stops and make it as unbelievable as possible.

(And I think my museum would also sell more tickets.)

42 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:41pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

Those dinosaurs would get liquored up and start chasing the female staff around at the office Christmas party. It got embarrassing and HR said it was a real liability so Godcorp just had to let all the old dinosaurs go.

43 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:52pm

re: #8 grumpy old codger

Does the ET thing at Universal mean that aliens are here?

Well, now that you mention it . . .

Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact - but it has been covered up for 60 years

Aliens have contacted humans several times but governments have hidden the truth for 60 years, the sixth man to walk on the moon has claimed.

Apollo 14 astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell, said he was aware of many UFO visits to Earth during his career with NASA but each one was covered up.

Dr Mitchell, 77, said during a radio interview that sources at the space agency who had had contact with aliens described the beings as 'little people who look strange to us.'

He said supposedly real-life ET's were similar to the traditional image of a small frame, large eyes and head.

Chillingly, he claimed our technology is 'not nearly as sophisticated' as theirs and "had they been hostile", he warned 'we would be been gone by now'.

/so, did they evolve or what?

44 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:53pm

Sorry to go OT folks, but I think we needs a laugh.

Ergo, The Price Better Be right!

/Now back to your regularly scheduled mayhem

45 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:55pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

It was a class struggle.

/Marx

46 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:27:57pm

re: #25 HoosierHoops

It's down the road from Lynchburg. People go to the Jack Daniels Museum then come here. At which point, they'll buy anything.

47 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:28:00pm

re: #33 kansas

Lol

48 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:28:40pm

re: #6 Cartman

Damn. I was looking forward to spending a couple of hours here during LGF prime time. This stuff just ain't my cup of tea. Guess I'll come back later. *sigh*

There are other threads, take your pick.

49 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:17pm

re: #46 calcajunYa can't drink at the Jack Daniels place, unless they changed the law. It is in a dry county. :(

50 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:24pm

re: #37 calcajun

I tell you Sid, that one of these days we'll look in to our microscope and find ourselves staring right into God's eyes, and the first one who blinks is going to lose his testicles.


Heh.

51 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:29:30pm

re: #28 Paul

Good point. If someone really believes the literal translation of Genesis, than what about Genesis 6:19..

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

So none of the animal world should have gone extinct from the great flood.

52 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:12pm

re: #42 lifeofthemind

Those dinosaurs would get liquored up and start chasing the female staff around at the office Christmas party. It got embarrassing and HR said it was a real liability so Godcorp just had to let all the old dinosaurs go.

that may have been the quote of the day..ding ding..

53 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:24pm

Let's not forget this one in South Dakota.

54 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:30pm

Has any Creation scientist ever defined the limits of any biblical "kind" other than mankind?

55 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:46pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

Too many dinosaur flicks.

56 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:49pm

To all YEC'ers. Get an Interlinear Bible. A Strong's Concordance. Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.

In Gen. 1:2 (Amplified Bible)
The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.

You will find the word was is more properly rendered became.

In the six days of creation the Hebrew word is yowm. Yowm can have different meanings depending on context.

And finally...
Psalm 89:14 (Amplified Bible)
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and loving-kindness and truth go before Your face.
John 17:17 (Amplified Bible)
Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth
Deuteronomy 32:4 (Amplified Bible)
He is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are law and justice. A God of faithfulness without breach or deviation, just and right is He.

Given these verses explain how God whose work is perfect, whose Word is truth, whose authority is founded on his righteousness could place falsehoods in His creation.

57 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:30:50pm
58 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:25pm

BTW, I don't believe in young-Earth creationism. I just believe if a fool and his money are going to be parted, it's not really my business.

/don't think creationism should be taught in schools.

59 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:27pm

So a chicken is laying in bed beside an egg smoking a cigarette. The chicken turns to the egg and says, "Well, I guess that answers that question."

60 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:55pm

re: #28 Paul

Why did God kick the dinosaurs off the Ark?

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

61 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:31:58pm

re: #52 HoosierHoops

that may have been the quote of the day..ding ding..

Your servant.

62 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:03pm

looks like they have taken A LOT artist license.
the modern brick wall behind the cave girl and dinosaur in the photo, is rather odd.
but what the heck, i guess anything goes.

63 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:17pm

re: #30 mossley

Dark Ages? Am dragging down others with me? I despise any holier than thous, of any type, ilk or persuasion.
Or did you mean to say that democracy was dragging us down? Could I trust you to judge us?
Creationists haven't YET condemned me to death due to my heritage, religion, etc.. Rage Boy's friends have.
Again haven't been shot at by any creationists that I know of, but I have been shot at by ROPers.

64 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:23pm
65 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:32:47pm

re: #49 pingjockey

Yes, but can't you buy stuff there? My brother went there for his honeymoon in '79 and loved the tour.

66 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:33:08pm

I don't mind watching fools and their money part ways. But I do not like that they target the children of the fools.

67 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:06pm

re: #62 nyc redneck

It was a beaux arts dinosaur who could afford a bronze age loft

68 Sizzlack  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:32pm

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

69 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:34:50pm

i'm going to love going there. i love these out of the way interesting road side attractions.

70 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:12pm

re: #59 kansas

So a chicken is laying in bed beside an egg smoking a cigarette. The chicken turns to the egg and says, "Well, I guess that answers that question."

Is this thing on?

71 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:18pm

re: #34 jaunte

I couldn't find anything in the slide show that explained why the vegetarian dinosaurs were all killed off.

The meat-eating dinosaurs ate them.

Then the meat-eating dinosaurs died off because of smoking.

72 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:22pm

re: #68 Sizzlack


Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.


I'd buy tickets for that show!
;-P

73 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #65 calcajun
I bet you can good deals on 1/2 gals of JD. Yeehaw!

74 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:35pm

re: #23 WhiteRasta

We could call it La-La Land. We could have a stoning booth and a clitorcetomy clinic and an sword amputation block.

The possibilities are endless....

The acid throwing street, where you get to throw acid in the faces of un-veiled whores.

Mohammed meets Disney!

How would this be different from the Magic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
Oh, you'd let Jews in.

75 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:35:50pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

Well, when Obama gets elected, the meek shall lie down with the raptors.

76 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:02pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

It's not a museum! It's the old sets from "Land of the Lost"!

77 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:12pm

Laughable on the face of it, considering that during the age of the dinos, no mammal larger than a rat was able to survive, according to Bakker's book.

78 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:40pm

re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

Eureka! Global warming.

79 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:36:54pm

re: #77 irongrampa

Any larger and they became dino-poop.

80 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:03pm

re: #75 grumpy old codger

I think that should be the morons shall sup with the murderers.

81 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:28pm

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.
Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

82 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:29pm

the existence of this place makes me sad.

83 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:37:33pm

re: #77 irongrampa

Laughable on the face of it, considering that during the age of the dinos, no mammal larger than a rat was able to survive, according to Bakker's book.

didn't you see Jurassic park?

84 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:16pm

With a friend, I attended an Answers In Genesis presentation/fundraiser at a local church in VA. It was Nov 2001, IIRC. Ken Ham was one of about 4 speakers. Another was Henry Morris who talked about his pursuit of Noah's Arc, visiting Mt Ararat and other middle east countries, and having been struck by lightning at least once. Morris is currently head of the Institute for Creationist Research.

These guys were slick. Except for Ham, it wasn't all that obvious (to me at the time) that their collective agenda was pushing creationism into our schools.

85 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:27pm

The creation museum group does talk about dinosaurs on the ark, since many have mentioned that: [Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

86 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:28pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

And this, from the wikipedia article: "In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."

87 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:38:34pm

re: #39 Grand Poobah

I see this, and I first frown, because how much money was spent doing this travesty?

$27 million.

88 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:39:43pm

re: #87 Charles

Charles, there is no law against ignorance. Wasteful yes, but their money.

89 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:39:50pm

re: #81 texasjihad
El Cajon also has a museum for alien contacts. Can't think of the name of the group. They'd get on public access late at night with real cheesy(think original Dr. Who special effects) shows. They also had a big ol' cadillac with a flying saucer on it. The Lunarians, IIRC.

90 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:40:00pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.
Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

Praise God, Brother. Get some real science in here.

91 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:40:22pm

re: #17 Charles

Ulcer-free over here! I think this stuff is interesting, and an important issue, believe it or not.

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

92 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:00pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

the existence of this place makes me sad.


What makes me sad is that I am not making any money off of this.

93 dormain  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:05pm

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

94 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:08pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

the existence of this place makes me sad.

/the existence of San Francisco values will bring our civilization to an end faster

95 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:46pm
According to AiG, within its first month attendance surpassed 100,000 visitors by July 21, 2007 and 200,000 visitors on September 20, 2007.

I wonder how many showed up just see what the creationists are trying to sell. I'd go just to see a true cultural oddity.

96 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:47pm

Their kids learn about paleontology by watching The Flintstones.

97 The Shadow Do  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:56pm

I have to admit that seeing this place is funny as hell. It's just plain silly. Sorry, that's just me.

98 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:41:57pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

Daddy, are we there yet? (constant complasint of my kids when we were going anywhere.)

99 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:27pm

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.

100 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:34pm

I don't think, in all my years going to Sunday school or church and reading the Bible, do I remember the time line being in one of the pages. In fact, I don't remember that the Bible said that Jesus was born in the year 5,000. In fact, according to the Jewish calendar, it is now the year 5768. There is something fishy going on with the dates. Assumptions, assumptions.

101 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:38pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

'kay, doormat, answer my re: #56

102 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:42:51pm

re: #98 grumpy old codger
And wise ass teenagers on the road to a Mariners game!

103 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:02pm

re: #90 kansas

Praise God, Brother. Get some real science in here.

I think the best science website is the dailygalaxy.com great wonderful science...

104 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:04pm

re: #96 Mich-again

Their kids learn about paleontology by watching The Flintstones.

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

105 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:06pm

re: #99 Mich-again

Barkeep, two beers over here please. And keep them coming!

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:22pm

re: #49 pingjockey

Ya can't drink at the Jack Daniels place, unless they changed the law. It is in a dry county. :(

Freakin' interesting tour though.

107 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:31pm

re: #87 Charles

$27 million.

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

108 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:38pm

re: #100 lone_wolf_in_illinois

I don't think, in all my years going to Sunday school or church and reading the Bible, do I remember the time line being in one of the pages. In fact, I don't remember that the Bible said that Jesus was born in the year 5,000. In fact, according to the Jewish calendar, it is now the year 5768. There is something fishy going on with the dates. Assumptions, assumptions.

Bishop Usher comes to mind.

109 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #68 Sizzlack

This museum makes creationism look like some wacked out Saturday morning cartoon...
Moses riding a Brontosaurus that has laser cannons fighting Egyptians riding T Rexs that fly.
Oh yea and cave people that live side by side with vicious raptors.

Gack. Didn't Ralph Bakshi make a movie like that and call it Heavy Metal? I am having visions.

110 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:26pm

re: #104 OldLineTexan

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

*snicker* :D

111 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:32pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Not sure I agree with you there, Dark Falcon.

112 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:42pm

re: #81 texasjihad

I nominate this for most incoherent rant of the day. Do you even know what science is?

113 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:44:46pm

are non insane people allowed to work there?

114 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:10pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

You can say that about a lot of stuff.

Please don't come after me with torches.

115 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:51pm

re: #109 Crimsonfisted
Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

116 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:45:52pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

That's a lot of money. How sad to think the amount of real good that money could have done instead of promoting this ignorance.

Obama raises that in 2 weeks.

117 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:08pm

Howdy All,

You're lookin' at a lotta money here folks.

First time I've ever seen so many dinosaurs and jackasses in the same place.

118 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:16pm

re: #90 kansas

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

119 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:46:52pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

Please don't come after me with torches.

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

120 negativ  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:14pm

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

121 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:24pm

re: #63 grumpy old codger

Dark Ages? Am dragging down others with me? I despise any holier than thous, of any type, ilk or persuasion.
Or did you mean to say that democracy was dragging us down? Could I trust you to judge us?
Creationists haven't YET condemned me to death due to my heritage, religion, etc.. Rage Boy's friends have.
Again haven't been shot at by any creationists that I know of, but I have been shot at by ROPers.


Condemned by death directly, no. By ignorance, well that's one goal of the radical Muslims and the creationists are working with them in that regard.

Their assault goes beyond evolution; they attack science directly. The public schools do a horrible job of teaching basic science to begin with, and the ID crowd is mudding the water more. People don't question the illogical assumptions of junk science, they question science.

These students are our future. Think about the implications of them thinking science is nonsense. New drugs to treat illnesses, designing practical alternative energy sources, developing new strains of crops to end world hunger? Takes scientists to do it. Even if these students don't plan to go into science, they lack the basic skills to evaluate what they hear about. If you think junk science is a problem now, imagine what it will be if the ID crowd gets their way.

Do you want the design of weapons systems needed for our national defense handled by someone with a questionable understanding of the scientific method? Do you want your medical issues handled by someone who doesn't believe a demonstrably true scientific fact?

Personally, I think Charles is spot-on in his efforts to expose these fanatics and the danger they pose. They don't have to blow up buildings to be a threat; that's a strawman suitable for the DI.

122 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:37pm

re: #116 sparrowlake

Obama raises that in 2 weeks.

HA! Talk about promoting ignorance and the destruction of the country!

123 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:39pm

re: #83 HoosierHoops

Yep--loved the movie for the really first-rate portrayals of what these magnificent animals must have been.

124 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:47:54pm

More power to 'em. This is a good example of exercising our freedoms, and of making a buck.

Just keep it out of the public schools.

125 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:02pm

re: #105 grumpy old codger

Barkeep, two beers over here please. And keep them coming!

Two hell! How bout a dozen.

126 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:18pm

re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

And the wazeraourexes with the bambazeered abetplexes
Were crouching in places
Waiting, waiting, waiting,
For the long, long, long rainy nights
To stop the drip, drip, dripping drops
On the hull of the creaking, stinking ship of farts.


/Seuss-ish off

127 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:25pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

You can say that about a lot of stuff.

Please don't come after me with torches.

*poke* *poke*
*with a pitchfork*

/ ;-)

128 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:30pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

129 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:33pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people. It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so.

In 1880 most information traveled by horse and illnesses were treated with leeches.

130 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:33pm

re: #120 negativ

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

I will. It's a free country, at least for now.

You have a right to be an asshole. Others have the right to call you on it.

Next question? That one was too easy.

131 Purple Prose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:48:44pm

I can't help but think that if the financiers of this project, as well as dozens of other pointless projects, put their money into real acts of Christian charity, the world would be a better place. What's the point? Where's the Christianity? I don't see any evidence of Christ here, anymore than I see evidence of any noble motives in Muslim creationist efforts. This waste of money and human potential is not religion. It is dogmatism and, in a way, anti-Christian, just obscuring the true message of redemption in Christianity with an irrelevant sideshow.

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being. He spoke of moral truths. If we focused more on moral truths, and less on side shows, maybe we'd have more of a fighting chance against Islamism. Instead, the passion and money of people who obsess about creationist dogmatism is wasted. Instead of engaging in Christian acts of charity or defending the West from Islamism or something that preserves our culture, they misguidedly act to weaken our culture and values and compromise our future.

132 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:04pm

re: #32 grumpy old codger

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

Do you think an Einstein or a Hawkin or an Edison or a Darwin would have been seen in print if Creationists had their way?

The truth is that there are more of them than you seem to realize, and they have influence. There are more dangers in the world than the obvious ones that brought us all here in the first place, and your continuous complaints that only your list should be discussed is puzzling.

BTW, I'm old too, but more cranky than grumpy.

133 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:15pm

re: #82 nyc redneck

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

134 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:22pm

re: #99 Mich-again

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.


How does one heckle an inanimate object?

135 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:23pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

It's a classic. I did forget the pitchforks, though.

/sorry

136 obwon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:36pm

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

137 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:49:50pm

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

138 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:07pm

re: #117 M. Bensson-Levi

Howdy All,

You're lookin' at a lotta money here folks.

First time I've ever seen so many dinosaurs and jackasses in the same place.

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

139 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:07pm

think of the time, energy and money that went into pulling this together and w/ people who know nothing or care nothing abt, science.
i do want to see it. but it will be w/ the feeling that i am witnessing the work of zealots from a distant age.
i'll think of it as 'cave art'

140 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:11pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA has been around for many years. It makes a very strong case for a young earth- under 10.000 years old. It may be a real news flash but this view is gaining acceptance by many very bright and well educated people.

Well, if they believe that the earth is less than ten thousand years old, they obviously haven't been well educated in biology, botany, geology, paleontology, genetics or physics.

It is also the view of about every scientist before 1880 or so. (We learned much of what we know from those pioneers) This should be a non issue for people who believe in free speech. Why should a naturalist care what others believe about the theory of origins? I do not understand the heat. A naturalists has no credibility whatever with anyone who holds to a view that moral absolutes exists.

Well, they knew a helluva lot less back then. And our contemporary scientists should indeed possess credibility within their scientific fields. Certainly their overwhelming consensus should. BTW: moral absolutes have as much to do with or say about empirical science and its findings as operas have to do with or say about microscopes and the bugs you can see through them.

Why not pick on a issue that can be supported by real science.

Real science is the kind that is supported by real, empirical scientific evidence. Unlike young-earth creationism.

141 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:50:37pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

142 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:35pm

re: #120 negativ

Be careful with your comparisons negativ, you almost sound like Al Gore.

143 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:45pm

re: #125 Mich-again

Thanks for reminding me, I just finished one and now either -
a. Raise my voice and ask the fetching Mrs. Lone_Wolf to accommodate me..
b. Raise my voice and ask anyone to accommodate me....
c. Build me a fridge that automatically flips one upstairs to me....
d. Get a dog and then teach it how to fetch one for me......
e. Get one myself......

BRB....

144 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:51:55pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Define credible, and like I said, get me some real science in here.

145 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:01pm

re: #127 jcm

*poke* *poke*
*with a pitchfork*

/ ;-)

Yeah, I forgot about the pitchforks...and you're harder to see without the torches...

146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:04pm

re: #138 OldLineTexan

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

How's Ted doing? Anybody hear an update lately?

147 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:19pm

re: #111 Charles

Not sure I agree with you there, Dark Falcon.

That's OK. It is your site and your points are correct. And it is unlikely to make much difference electorally. I'm likely worrying too much and I know it. I just fear losing votes, given the nightmare that awaits if we lose this election.

148 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:41pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon
Ummm....NO!

149 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:45pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

As long you're careful with this stuff. So I see no harm (and a fair bit of good) in saying this now. After the GOP convention, on the other hand, I'd advise silence on the issue. Creationists are an important part of our coalition, we need their votes.

There is never a time for truth not to be spoken. Not in America.

150 Charles  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:48pm

Please note: one reason they're arguing that humans and dinosaurs lived together is because they believe dinosaurs were ... vegetarians.

Despite the gigantic teeth.

151 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:52:53pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

BULLSH*T go read re: #56 jcm

152 Josephine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:00pm

These things stood out for me:

- The gift shop's "Curricula: Home Schooling" book section.

- The posters listing God's Word vs. Human Reasoning. (Because we can't trust our stupid minds.)

- Criticism of the Bible or creationism being labeled as "attacks".

- The basket weaving babes looked like Natalie Portman and Angelina Jolie.

- Why were the Amish-looking women standing in the back of the room behind the men who were taller than them? How could they possibly have seen the display?

153 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:01pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

Not YOUNG Fankenstein! Not Willy Wonka! Not The Waco Kid!

Never! :)

154 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:18pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

We found a witch! Can we burn her?

155 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:33pm

What is this about a Croatian Museum in Kentucky? What are Croatians doing in Kentucky? Oh, never mind.

156 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:44pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

Watch me.

There, I did it.

It's easy.

157 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:48pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

That I had forgotten and it does change my opinion. I therefore withdraw my original comment.

158 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:56pm

re: #135 OldLineTexan

re: #119 Charles
Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?
/just sayin'


It's a classic. I did forget the pitchforks, though.
/sorry

I like the part where Lou Costello gets in the rowboat with the invisible man.

159 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:53:59pm

Is the message that no black people are allowed at the Creation Museum?

160 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:03pm

re: #119 Charles

Isn't that what the townspeople do to Dr. Frankenstein?

/just sayin'

This is my favorite scene.. Puttin on the Ritz

161 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:10pm

re: #153 Crimsonfisted

That's Frankensteen.

162 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:14pm

re: #150 Charles

That would explain:
re: #60 Salamantis

Dinosaurs fart like nose-melting thunder; the stench was quite unbearable in cramped, enclosed spaces...;~)

163 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:14pm

re: #132 Naso Tang

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?

164 mossley  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:15pm

Woo-hoo! I finally got noticed by a creationist down-dinger!

165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:19pm

re: #150 Charles

Were they vegan? or just vegetarian...

I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.

166 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:31pm

re: #93 dormain

It looks great, actually. Worth a visit.

Probably worth a bunch more laughs than most comedy clubs. The only problem with the place is that they might open up a can of whoop-ass on ya if ya completely lose it and crack up in there...

167 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #115 pingjockey

Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

I liked it. And Wizards.

168 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:54:47pm

re: #133 texasjihad

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

i'm laughing that dinosaurs are right there w/ humans.
why couldn't this have been better?

169 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:05pm

re: #121 mossley
Mossly,
I think you're being too kind overall. Public education SUCKS. We're turning out students who can't multiply, parse a sentence, you name it.
Blaming science only is missing the fact. We've got students who can't locate CA on a map. Unless we turn around the entire system, the result will be the same: Little Johnnie can't do shit but he feels good about himself.

170 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:26pm

re: #120 negativ

Not that I agree with the creationist museum but you're comparing apples to oranges here. Creationist museums may be very out there but I doubt that their presence incites violence. I guarantee you that a denier museum would incite violence, that's its whole purpose, and then the public would have to foot the bill for the police investigations of the inevitable acts of violence and vandalism that would follow. Not to mention physical protection for the visitors, employees, property, etc.

171 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:38pm

re: #138 OldLineTexan

Hold on, the Dem convention is coming, and Ted Kennedy WILL be there.

Trumped me again!

172 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:45pm

re: #150 Charles

Please. Are you telling me that is a SERIOUS consideration on their part?

173 Irish Rose  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:55:51pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.


What you said.

174 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:04pm

re: #139 nyc redneck

think of the time, energy and money that went into pulling this together and w/ people who know nothing or care nothing abt, science.
i do want to see it. but it will be w/ the feeling that i am witnessing the work of zealots from a distant age.

/kind of like the World's Largest Twine Ball?

175 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:15pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Were they vegan? or just vegetarian...

I'm a christian...
these people are idiots.

Ya' think?

I've whacked two so far.... both real low comment counts.
Let's see if they come back?

176 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:22pm

re: #163 M. Bensson-Levi


As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?


What is your point?

177 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:31pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.


I don't think you mean all creationist, or do you?, because I know I am not now or ever would be.

178 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:38pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

179 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:56:47pm

re: #134 MandyManners

How does one heckle an inanimate object?

Point and laugh?

180 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:10pm

re: #104 OldLineTexan

Oh crikey! First they tell me the Bible's a book of tall tales written down by the descendants of highly bored nomads. Now you're gonna tell me that Hanna and Barbera lied to me, too?

/

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

181 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:41pm

re: #146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How's Ted doing? Anybody hear an update lately?


The same. Still thinks he's Nero.

182 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:45pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

I want my flying car now.

183 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:57:53pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

My point stands. Lots of money that "could have" been used for some purpose you (or I, or whoever) approve of has been used for lesser purposes.

In the end, it's not my money.

Compared to the magnitude of my tax dollars wasted on thousands of projects that I find disgusting, this (mis)use of private money is a fart in a whirlwind.

184 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:12pm

re: #131 Purple Prose

I can't help but think that if the financiers of this project, as well as dozens of other pointless projects, put their money into real acts of Christian charity, the world would be a better place. What's the point? Where's the Christianity? I don't see any evidence of Christ here, anymore than I see evidence of any noble motives in Muslim creationist efforts. This waste of money and human potential is not religion. It is dogmatism and, in a way, anti-Christian, just obscuring the true message of redemption in Christianity with an irrelevant sideshow.

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being. He spoke of moral truths. If we focused more on moral truths, and less on side shows, maybe we'd have more of a fighting chance against Islamism. Instead, the passion and money of people who obsess about creationist dogmatism is wasted. Instead of engaging in Christian acts of charity or defending the West from Islamism or something that preserves our culture, they misguidedly act to weaken our culture and values and compromise our future.

Christianity is based on facts and history. If Jesus claimed to be-- I AM --the Creator God, and He did--then His priority is not moral teaching. If Adam was a man in History and Christ who is described in Romans 5 as the second Adam came to fix the fall of man in Adam. Death came AFTER Adam sinned. Man is restored to God because Christ died to pay the penalty for the sin of all men in the same way all are condemned in Adam. This is the plan of God to offer eternal life as a free gift to all based on the price being paid by One. This is at the core of True Christian Theology.

185 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:13pm

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

186 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:21pm

Here's what they're saying about vegetarian dinosaurs:
"What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants."
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:36pm

re: #178 calcajun

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

The point I keep making on this issue, is I don't care how He did it. I accept he did it. Do not need the recipe. Do not plan on doing it myself.

188 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:39pm

re: #115 pingjockey

Heavy Metal. Good flic. Saw it in the Philipines at the base theatre for 35 cents. 1983, IIRC.

See wizards. Nutjob anti-war crap. But has good anti-nazi/fascist ideas and the best line ever uttered in a film by a great "wizard"

"Let me show you a trick mom taught me when you weren't around!"

189 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:53pm

re: #180 Salamantis

There's more:

Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.

-

A Fish Called Wanda
190 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:58:55pm

Do UFO's disprove evolution and creationism?

191 BakaRanger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:07pm

One thing that we can all agree on...Eve was pretty hot!

192 abolitionist  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:29pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

It sickens me to think how much the American pubic was duped, by appeals by churches, mosques, charities etc, into funding the friggin JIHADISTS (and their ideological allies) in the weeks and months following 911.

Water under the bridge.

193 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:34pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Sure we do....
On top of each turtles shell he put a padded ring, so the next turtle could balance easily.

194 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:46pm

re: #128 MandyManners

and i thought i had some bad mornings after a good bender!

195 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 6:59:49pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I hate to break this to you, but the Jetsons are NOT our future...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

196 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:10pm

Where the hell are dinasours mentioned in the bible, oh thats right they aren't

197 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:25pm

re: #185 Pastorius

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

Come visit me.

198 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:33pm

re: #186 jaunte

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

199 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:00:45pm

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh c'mon. What are you really going to do with your weekends? Golf?

200 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:19pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

Of course you're working overtime, doing your part to alleviate human suffering.

/it's not publicly funded, attendance isn't mandatory, they can do whatever they want with their money, for all you know they might be prolific charitable givers too

201 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #188 Mars Needs Neocons

See wizards. Nutjob anti-war crap. But has good anti-nazi/fascist ideas and the best line ever uttered in a film by a great "wizard"

"Let me show you a trick mom taught me when you weren't around!"

Exactly.

202 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:34pm

re: #198 paradox42

The veggies were OK. It was the nuts they had to eat.

203 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:34pm

re: #152 Josephine

The posters listing God's Word vs. Human Reasoning.


That's really the core of the issue. They want do do away with reason just like Islam did in the 11th century. They favor scripture and dogma over reason and logic. It's toxic to our culture.

204 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:36pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Wrong. "Real" science does not always have to be repeatable, at least not in the sense you imagine.

How do you define a "credible" explanation for life? Anything that doesn't involve supernatural magic is going to be incredible to you.

To you, since scientists don't know RIGHT NOW exactly how life started naturally and aren't creating life over and over again in the laboratory, they should just give up, throw up their hands, shut down their brains and their curiousity, and say "Goddidit!" Doesn't it ever occur to you that if you applied that attitude to every area of science, science would never have gotten anywhere?

In any event, there are numerous credible hypotheses for how life got started. All you need to begin with is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

205 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:01:41pm

re: #128 MandyManners

THEY'RE IN BED WITH ISLAM.

Wassa' matter, kc8ukw? Can't handle the truth?

206 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:01pm

re: #196 pegcity

perhaps,dosen't the bible mention that at one time giants walked the earth or some such?

207 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #189 calcajun

And more... Steely Dan is not one person, We get fringe benefits, not French benefits, it’s not the Leaning Tower of Pizza, and James Dean was an actor—Jimmy Dean makes sausages.

208 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #2 grumpy old codger

So what? sort of a Jurassic Park thing.

Actually, the Jurassic Park comparison is pretty apt -- since the basic premise of the JP franchise had approximately as much grounding in real-world science as the Creation Museum does. Yet there was an avalanche of quasi-educational tie-in merchandise accompanying the JP movies, which means that a lot of people may have seen the films as entertaining fluff with a small amount of factual content about DNA and genes and prehistoric life. When the reality is that the movies were ONLY entertaining fluff, because the factual content was essentially null -- almost every fact that they could get wrong, they did get wrong.

209 Pastorius  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:14pm

#197 Kansas,
I have spoken with people in Kansas who say this kind of Christianity is pretty rampant in that part of the country.

210 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:21pm

re: #198 paradox42

Like this: [Link: imagecache2.allposters.com...]

211 sparrowlake  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:02:24pm

re: #186 jaunte

Here's what they're saying about vegetarian dinosaurs:
"What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants."
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

Maybe the meat-eating dinos evolved from the vegan ones.

212 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:02pm

re: #120 negativ

I'm going to collect some donations and open up a Holocaust Denial Museum. We'll see if the same people here who think the Creation Museum is A-OK so long as it's privately-funded will defend me on the same "principles".

It's not the same thing! Good grief, what's your problem?

213 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:04pm

re: #198 paradox42

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!

214 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:21pm

re: #109 Crimsonfisted

Gack. Didn't Ralph Bakshi make a movie like that and call it Heavy Metal? I am having visions.

I really liked Ralph Bakshi's Wizards. And we are facing some of the same dark forces these days.

215 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:45pm

re: #185 Pastorius

By the way, I am a Christian. For three years, I operated a business of my own advising Christian Pastors. I have met countless people in Christian leadership. I know of none who think like this.

I know this kind of thinking exists. However, I am guessing it is in pockets of the country, and promoted by certain narrow groups of people.

Thing is, I live in SoCal, so my perspective is of an Evangelical Christian living in Southern California.

There does seem to be difference between communication in a place like this, and when you are "doing business"with someone. In the latter case one tends to say what one thinks the other party wants to hear, and v.v.

I know people who are at least closet creationists, because they never learned anything about evolution, and don't hang out at internet sites discussing it, but neither do I discuss it with them because we might possible no longer be friends. Condescending on my part perhaps, but nice neighbors can be hard to come by.

216 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:59pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

Why should that stop me from name-calling? I don't have to respect somebody's beliefs just because he or she "honestly" believes them.

217 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:03:59pm

re: #212 MandyManners

look at his nic.....

218 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:01pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

Yeah, I forgot about the pitchforks...and you're harder to see without the torches...

I'm buying
this Glenn Beck t-shirt when I get paid.

219 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:03pm

re: #183 OldLineTexan

They have the right to spend their money on whatever they want, and I have the right to think they've spent their money in a way that is counterproductive to the interests of enlightenment and decency. Feed and otherwise care for people or spread ignorance- I think they choose poorly.

220 freetoken  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:36pm

re: #86 jaunte

And this, from the wikipedia article: "In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."

Which supports the long running Gallup poll showing 44% currently agreeing to that statement.

221 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:04:45pm

re: #206 Boondock St. Bender

Thats quite a logic jump, giants to T-Rex

222 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:17pm

re: #212 MandyManners

It's not the same thing! Good grief, what's your problem?

The motives are different, but the pathologies are similar.

223 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:30pm

re: #209 Pastorius

#197 Kansas,
I have spoken with people in Kansas who say this kind of Christianity is pretty rampant in that part of the country.

It is. From the size of the churches around here, there's come pretty good money in it.

224 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:32pm

re: #213 grumpy old codger

Like I said, bad ass vegatables.
Makes as much sense as anything else in this museum.

225 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:37pm

re: #221 pegcity

didn't say i wasn't reaching...lol

226 Mich-again  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:42pm

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

227 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:44pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

An lslamist honestly believes God has commanded him to kill you.

228 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:05:47pm

re: #218 Palandine

I'm buying
this Glenn Beck t-shirt when I get paid.

Too bad I'm a moron. Linky fixed.

229 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:02pm

re: #220 freetoken

That is a serious commentary on the current state of science education.

230 freetoken  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:34pm

re: #81 texasjihad

The museum at the Institute For Creation Research in El Cajon ,CA

They moved to Santee many years ago, did they not? Perhaps someday I should drive down there and ask them firsthand on what exactly they did to support Oktar et. al. in Turkey.

231 OldGuard  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:40pm

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

232 bcgirl  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:46pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Truth : and we will not figure it out ever, untill we go to be with HIM,

I am a CHRISTian, meaning i belive in Jesus as God incarnate who died for my many sins and the sins of the world and was crucified and wwas raised 3 three days and lives today in Heaven, ,, oh yea and there is also that virgin birth thing,,,,,,,, if I believe in that, why would I not also believe in the creation of the world in 6 days, and the flood and everything else,, the one thing is though,, GOD's Time is NOT our time.ONLY HE knows.day can be a year or many years, like the above post said, we have not figured it out,, and we never will, it is not for us to know but only God who created us.

sorry that now all you lizards whom i love for these many years will now consider me an idiot and moron and fanatic,, just know there are more of me here and we are praying for us all.

233 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:48pm

re: #228 Palandine

Too bad I'm a moron. Linky fixed.

I am soooo getting one!

234 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:06:48pm

When are they building the Holocaust Denial Museum, or the KKK history center?

235 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:28pm

re: #206 Boondock St. Bender

perhaps,dosen't the bible mention that at one time giants walked the earth or some such?

It says angels mated with human women and produced giants. Somehow, I don't think that's a reference to dinosaurs.

236 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:32pm

re: #216 Tigger2005

That's true, it would depend on the name. "Liar" would be completely inappropriate. "Fanatic" would be too if it carries a connotation of "irrational."

237 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:38pm

re: #140 Salamantis

I will give you a good example. The clear movement of the scientific community --do not take my word, look into it yourself-- is that the Grand Canyon was form very rapidly with a "flood" of water. This is a clear way in which something that passed for science was simply wrong. Real science can be repeated. That is a fact.

Other examples are when very well established dated strata is found to have a large tree that is vertical some 300 feet. This proves beyond any doubt that the dates were all phony.

238 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:07:53pm

re: #231 OldGuard

LGF is anti idiotarian period, not anti christian

239 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:11pm

re: #118 texasjihad

Real science is repeatable by definition. Name me any naturalist who has any credible explanation for life. ---not for man but for the beginning of life.

Evolutuionary theory is not about the beginning of life, but instead about what happens to randomly mutating already-present life when it is confronted by a nonrandomly selecting surrounding environment.

And we have enough empirical, experimental, repeatable-under-controlled-conditions evidence about that to snap off the iron tines of fleets of front-end loaders.

240 njspeer  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:12pm

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

241 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:14pm

re: #188 Mars Needs Neocons
Had a double feature on the ship. Wizards and The Song Remains the Same.

242 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:15pm

re: #198 paradox42

Judging by the size of the teeth in a T-Rex skull, the vegetables back then must have been seriously bad ass.

All the veggies had a mega- prefix.

Mega-turnip, mega-asparagus, and the dread 12-foot tall mega-broccoli.

They say dinos ruled the earth, but it was really methane gas.

243 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:20pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Go up and read my #56. It addresses that very question and point.

244 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:24pm

re: #235 Tigger2005

Bestiality?

245 Three Hundred  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:26pm

Havn't they found a raptor or T-Rex with a human skeleton in it's stomach cavity? Thought not.

246 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:29pm

re: #99 Mich-again

I kind of want to get liquored up and go inside and heckle all the ridiculous dioramas.

I had the same thought after a visit to the Egpytian National Military Museum. Its dioramas of the 1967 and Yom Kippur Wars are ludicrous.

247 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #176 Naso Tang

What is your point?

Merely a reference to the fact that science deniers, WITH THE POWER TO ENFORCE THEIR WILL, burned Nicolaus Copernicus, at the stake for publishing the truth that the earth was not the center of the universe, and, in fact, revolved around the sun.

A bit of dark humor there.

248 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:08:45pm

re: #226 Mich-again

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

If you are a "Native American" I do believe you can do that with mescaline or similar, and so on and so on. All it takes is one casino millionaire and presto, we can have a museum for that too.

249 Paul  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:15pm

Antediluvian Earth must have been bedlam with brontosaurs, rubbing shoulders with mammoths and paraceratheriums while allosaurs competed with saber tooth tigers and diatrymas for prey. Humans probably lived in caves just to avoid being trampled. Ultimately, extinction was a matter of being unable to find room on the Ark.

250 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:24pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

I'm a Christian but, I also believe in evolution.

251 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:30pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

They have the right to spend their money on whatever they want, and I have the right to think they've spent their money in a way that is counterproductive to the interests of enlightenment and decency. Feed and otherwise care for people or spread ignorance- I think they choose poorly.

I can agree with this simmered-down version, and you are well within your rights to be disappointed in their choices.

I do not want a country where the collective decides what I do...for good or ill.

252 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:09:51pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian idiot bashing gets old.

More accurate.

253 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:28pm

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

254 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:30pm

re: #178 calcajun

No. Just seriously misinformed. They want their religion to explain science when it's the other way around.

Truth: God made the universe and the Earth and all the animals on it. We just haven't figured out how he did it...yet.

Or what could have made him want to.

255 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:31pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

From my brain. Obviously you need help ;)

256 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #231 OldGuard

"If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time."
This is the kind of veiled, vague threat that makes religion look bad.

257 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:53pm

re: #231 OldGuard

So your saying that everyone who doesn't believe as you do is going to hell?
ESAD.

258 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #238 pegcity

LGF is anti idiotarian period, not anti christian

DING! DING!

259 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:14pm

re: #237 texasjihad
re: #240 njspeer

what do u mean can't help it?

Its not down syndrome

260 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:50pm

re: #253 MandyManners

House of David used to give out flyers addressing these issues. I never picked one up. I regret that now.

261 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:11:57pm

re: #226 Mich-again

WHat about a Recreational Drug museum that lets druggie parents indoctrinate their kids into thinking there's nothing wrong with mescaline, cocaine or heroin and all those DARE cops are spreading lies.

Go for it; again, it's a free country.

/I would put in a big parking lot, and you are going to need drinking fountains for the protestors

262 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:03pm

Oh, and when did opposition to creationism being taught as scientific fact in the public school system become anti-Christian? Don't some Jews also believe in creationism?

263 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:09pm

re: #256 jaunte

"If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time."
This is the kind of veiled, vague threat that makes religion look bad.

Going to hell, all of us. Well, that and all the people going to churches that don't agree with my church.

264 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:26pm

re: #231 OldGuard

You need to go answer my challenge to you in #56.

265 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:33pm

“We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.”
- Bill Hicks

266 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:35pm

i live a moral life. i don't discount god. i give great credence to science.
i'm getting a headache.

267 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:37pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Truth : and we will not figure it out ever, untill we go to be with HIM,

I am a CHRISTian, meaning i belive in Jesus as God incarnate who died for my many sins and the sins of the world and was crucified and wwas raised 3 three days and lives today in Heaven, ,, oh yea and there is also that virgin birth thing,,,,,,,, if I believe in that, why would I not also believe in the creation of the world in 6 days, and the flood and everything else,, the one thing is though,, GOD's Time is NOT our time.ONLY HE knows.day can be a year or many years, like the above post said, we have not figured it out,, and we never will, it is not for us to know but only God who created us.

sorry that now all you lizards whom i love for these many years will now consider me an idiot and moron and fanatic,, just know there are more of me here and we are praying for us all.


Very nicely said...I will join you in the consider me department....
Prayers for you....pray for me.

268 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:12:40pm

re: #232 bcgirl

you have faith and i repect that.heck i admire it.these threads are really about some in the creationist movement trying to bully their way into public school science classes.

269 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:13:21pm

re: #231 OldGuard
We are not bashing Christians. I am a Christian and I'm not getting bashed. You can't teach faith in public school. Period. End of story.

270 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:13:21pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

A sister. Incest prohibitions and taboos didn't have to go into place until after the time of Noah because the DNA started getting fouled up.

/used to listen to Christian radio. And yes, ick.

271 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #269 pingjockey

We are not bashing Christians. I am a Christian and I'm not getting bashed. You can't teach faith in public school. Period. End of story.

*bash* *bash*

There, now you don't have to feel left out!
/ ;-P

272 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #270 Palandine

guess no one let people in pakistan know that

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:07pm

BTW...my idiots comment was referring to people who beleive that T- and Adam danced the Horah together. Not to creationists in general.

274 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:10pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

Who says people care what others believe as far as faith is concerned AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO PUSH IT DOWN THE REST OF OUR THROATS VIA THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM?

275 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:13pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

276 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:21pm

From their site :

R.K., Teacher, Researcher...MS Biological Science—I am both a scientist and a teacher of science. My expertise is in Biology, and I love the subject matter because of its direct relevance to the teachings of the Bible. I believe that a scientist must take the Bible as fact, and science as support for that fact. This is what I feel seperates secular science from the true science that is all around us in this world. God has created this world wonderfully, and it is an honor for us all to explore its interworkings and to see how great God truly is!

DANGER AHEAD !

Attitudes like this are why we have to fight this nonsense. The scientific method would be revised or discarded for something that "fit" the narrative to this....whatever.
Not very scientific. Not very educating. Teaching kids to stop digging for answers, yeah, that'll make them a helluva lot brighter.

277 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:27pm

re: #133 texasjihad

I finally get it ---you people get all sad when others decide not to drink the coolade with you. You make me laugh!

You're believing in something for which no empirical evidence exists over that for which there is scads of scientific evidence all around, and you are actually accusing us of Kool-aid drinking?

Now that's some impressive turnspeak!

278 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:53pm

To move myself back unto firmer ground I would like to ask the room why people see such a need to shoehorn a belief into facts in clearly does not fit? It is hard to change long held beliefs, but T-Rex eating plants?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

279 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:14:56pm

re: #270 Palandine

A sister. Incest prohibitions and taboos didn't have to go into place until after the time of Noah because the DNA started getting fouled up.

/used to listen to Christian radio. And yes, ick.

I thought she came from a family far away.

280 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:12pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?


The had apples silly.

Where did Cain find his bride?


eHarmony of course.

281 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:12pm

re: #270 Palandine

What about the navels?

282 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:13pm

Do you think that at night, all the exhibits come to life, like in that Ben Stein Stiller movie?

283 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:17pm

re: #237 texasjihad
What? Not the Grand Canyon. That is not true.

284 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:25pm

re: #280 jcm

eHarmony of course.

LOL!

285 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:42pm

re: #169 grumpy old codger

Mossly,
I think you're being too kind overall. Public education SUCKS. We're turning out students who can't multiply, parse a sentence, you name it.
Blaming science only is missing the fact. We've got students who can't locate CA on a map. Unless we turn around the entire system, the result will be the same: Little Johnnie can't do shit but he feels good about himself.

I am a college professor--I have not always been one. Only ten years on and still suffering the shock effects of realizing how incredibly ignorant of history, literature, philosophy, government, science, math--in short, everything--the students are--even at the very fine university where I teach. What's more, they don't want to know. They don't think it's important. It's all about emotion--how they FEEL and what impulse motivates them. One reason I'm not worried about this whole creation debate is just related to this observation--hell, this generation won't learn ID, creationism OR evolution, either. It would be easy to say that the entire younger generation is going to hell in a hand basket (cliche alert), but generations of my ancestors have undoubtedly murmured similar sentiments. However, the problem seems to be growing exponentially. Sigh.

286 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:50pm

re: #232 bcgirl

Not at all. As I said in an earlier post, how God made this place does not affect mt faith in him. It's not a central tenant of my faith. In fact, I don't care.

I have always thought it would have made a good comedy sketch a la Bob Newhart's "phone calls" with Moses taking dictation from God on how the universe was made. Moses is furiously taking down notes on tide pools, amino acids, recombinant DNA, etc., when he looks heavenward and says to God, that if he tries to tell this to a Bronze-Age people, he'll get lynched. "Can I make a suggestion, Lord? One word; allegory! They'll buy that! They'll never go for the technical stuff. "

287 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:15:58pm
288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:00pm

re: #265 reno911

Anybody who quotes Bill Hicks gets an up-ding from me.

289 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:11pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Russian - mail order.

290 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:28pm

re: #136 obwon

If you believe that death entered the world through the sin of one man then you can't believe dinosaurs died off before man existed.

In that case, so much worse for the literal interpretation of Genesis.

But I don't buy your interpretation, and neither do a billion plus Roman Catholics, among many others.

291 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:31pm

Gotta' take a break. My brain hurtz.

292 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:35pm

re: #239 Salamantis

Evolutuionary theory is not about the beginning of life, but instead about what happens to randomly mutating already-present life when it is confronted by a nonrandomly selecting surrounding environment.

And we have enough empirical, experimental, repeatable-under-controlled-conditions evidence about that to snap off the iron tines of fleets of front-end loaders.

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.

293 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:16:58pm

re: #281 MandyManners

Oh, we're bringing fruit into this now?

294 USA  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:13pm

Marketplace of ideas is open for business. What a great country!

295 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:35pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

296 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:36pm

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I know several Jews--good friends of mine--who at the very least believe in "intelligent design" if not in literal young-earth creationism. It doesn't come up much in day to day conversation, and we don't fight about it. It's their business.

They are unlikely to demand that a public school endorse their views, though they might want to see a religious school do so.

I made sure that The Kid's school doesn't teach that in class but, the Word is taught in chapel.

297 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:47pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

Let me say that I have met one of the Answers in Genesis scientists. He had a Ph.D. from a real institution, he was intelligent, and he really believed in this stuff. I suspect most of the AIG people are the same. They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

If they weren't willfully ignorant, they couldn't honestly believe what they say, in the face of all of the evidence.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:17:51pm

re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...my idiots comment was referring to people who believe that T-Rex and Adam danced the Horah together. Not to creationists in general.

Crap, had to fix that. Keyboard going all wacko (certainly can't be my fingers).

299 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:05pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

I think the point was regarding ignorance, and nothing about the desire to help others. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I jump in only because this seems to be a common reaction by many who equate a correction of fact with promoting evil (humanism to you).

300 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:08pm

re: #289 calcajun

Russian - mail order.

Where did the mail carrier come from?

And, was it COD?

301 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:10pm

re: #294 USA

If that's the case, I think this is the scratch and dent section.

302 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:11pm

re: #271 jcm
Thank you! May I have another?!

303 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:35pm

re: #293 calcajun

Oh, we're bringing fruit into this now?


They preceeded people.

304 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:39pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Where did the mail carrier come from?

And, was it COD?

Created On Delivery?

305 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:40pm

re: #281 MandyManners

What about the navels?

My guess would be no, since they were never in a womb. :)

Good Lord, I'm riveted by this missing little girl Kaylee in Florida. They need to lock that entire family up until they tell where that child's body is.

Saturday night, they were interviewing the family lawyer, and he was wearing a Camaro t-shirt.

I fear for Western Civilization, sometimes.

306 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:43pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.

You too.
Go respond to my challenge posted in #56.

307 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:52pm

what i don't understand is this 6000 years nonsense,

the chinese have artifacts dating back thousands of years, are creationists telling me that Chinese people lived with Dinasours?

It's such a eurocentric bunch of B.S. Just cause we can't trace our history back that far dosent meant that some cultures like China didn't exist.

308 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:18:59pm

re: #275 texasjihad

So you think $27 million to promote this completely ignorant worldview is beneficial to humanity versus spending it on food, clothing and shelters for the needy? Do you honestly think this is what Jesus would want his followers doing with their resources?

309 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:17pm

re: #277 Salamantis

You're believing in something for which no empirical evidence exists over that for which there is scads of scientific evidence all around, and you are actually accusing us of Kool-aid drinking?

Now that's some impressive turnspeak!

What about the where did life come from question? If God did it then why do you think you know better than the Bible HOW HE did. If you do not know where life came from then why don't you go stare at your navel until it comes to you.

310 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:19pm

re: #292 texasjihad

The second Law Of Thermodynamics is real science. Evolution is speculation and any real scientist will tell you that. This is not a debate -- do not over state the case. you make Darwin look like an idiot.


WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

311 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:23pm

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I know several Jews--good friends of mine--who at the very least believe in "intelligent design" if not in literal young-earth creationism. It doesn't come up much in day to day conversation, and we don't fight about it. It's their business.

They are unlikely to demand that a public school endorse their views, though they might want to see a religious school do so.

In the 1970's Rabbi Avigdor Miller (Z"L) used to give anti-evolution lectures. He has written some excellent books on Jewish history, but he was way out of his league with the evolution stuff. He used to quote from Velikovsky, along with the selective-quote technique favored by the DI.

312 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:35pm

re: #300 MandyManners

It was a semi-sentient raptor. An early episode of a carrier going "postal".

313 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:41pm
314 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:19:49pm

re: #307 pegcity

Chinese people lived with Dinasours?

Well, until dinnertime, anyway...

315 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:00pm

re: #307 pegcity

Didn't you know that?

316 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:28pm

re: #184 texasjihad

? Not any that I've ever heard of. Don't paint all christians with the beliefs of your particular sect.

317 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:49pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

That is the sort of pedantry up with which I shall not put.-
Churchill

318 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:49pm

re: #231 OldGuard

Wow...there sure is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment on LGF these days. I've got to differ from the crowd here. I believe literally in Genesis and what the museum is all about. To put is simply, I believe the bible. If I'm right...I end up in heaven for eternity. If I'm wrong, I turn to dust just like you do. Either way, I've have a lived a moral life I've loved. If you're wrong....well, let's just say, you'd better be sure about your convictions. Eternity is a long time.

I'm not going to follow this thread. The Christian bashing gets old.

Whine. Whine. Whine. Would you like some cheese with that?

Try being an atheist for a while and get an idea of what being bashed is really like. Talking about "gets old." I got quite a bit of it when I started out on LGF. I don't remember constantly WHINING about it.

"Anti-Christian sentiment..." BULLSHIT. Anti-ignorance sentiment, YES.

And of course, the ever-so-predictable scare statement, reducing religion to a guessing game with unbelievably high stakes. "What's behind door number 1, Drew?"

319 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:20:53pm

"The entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
The earth is not an energetically isolated system!

320 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:17pm

re: #294 USA

Marketplace of ideas is open for business. What a great country!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

321 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:32pm

re: #240 njspeer

Do evolutionists believe in freewill? Just asking. If they do, where did it come from? If they don't, then why do they care what creationists believe when they can't help it.

Just asking.

What's an evolutionist?

322 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:21:55pm

And, now. I must go. Got business to tend.

323 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:02pm

re: #191 BakaRanger

One thing that we can all agree on...Eve was pretty hot!

Anyone else remember the original '70s edition of The Joy of Sex, with the pencil-drawings of a shaggy hippie couple gettin' it on? Well, check out the Creation Museum's lifesize diorama of Adam and Eve and tell me it ain't the exact same bearded dude!

(And just like the hippie lady in The Joy of Sex and Darryl Hannah in Splash, Eve is blessed with magical hair that always strategically covers the most interesting stuff.)

324 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:04pm

re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

325 bitsy  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:14pm

Like DUH! Dinosaurs were evil so God drowned them.

Those Darwinists almost had me believing all that carbon dating junk. For awhile there, I was worried I might have to learn some chemistry or something to understand the origins of life.

/sarc

326 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:34pm

re: #310 kansas

WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

Same thing as always. Unwillingness to learn anything that contradicts what one learned while breast feeding.

327 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:46pm

re: #154 calcajun

We found a witch! Can we burn her?

Sure you can! In fact, you must!

Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live.
Exodus 22:18

328 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:22:57pm
329 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:18pm

re: #327 Salamantis

How do you she is a witch?

330 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:27pm

re: #320 MandyManners

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I once saw a big hand-painted sign beside the highway (small highway!) that said "Philosophy lessons $25."

My first professor of Western Civ told us "The university is a marketplace of ideas--don't buy any of them."

331 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:30pm

re: #319 jaunte

"The entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."
The earth is not an energetically isolated system!

This is true...on one Creationist site, some guy wrote something like, "For evolution to work, you would have to huge amounts of energy being poured onto the planet at all times. Where is that coming from?"

Someone told him to step outside during the daytime and look up.

332 AndyMacOP  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:23:59pm

For the love of God! This is what happens when you cross religion with stupidity.

FWTW: One of the most basic universal truths of a (reasonable) religious person is knowing the fact that God neither deceives nor is deceived. Creating an earth that is actually 6,000 years old BUT appears, through simple observation, to be millions of years old flies in the face all that a person of faith, especially a Christian, holds dear. I won't say this about a Muslim though, because a part of what I know about their theology is that God can darn well do whatever He wants to for no good reason at all, or for the simple reason of deceiving human beings. YE Christians have apparently taken a big swig of that Kool-Aid.

333 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:02pm

re: #310 kansas
Ya beat me to it. They are fixated on the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

334 kevinmumaw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:02pm

OT: A jaw-dropping political miracle may be on the horizon.

It's about Murtha. I think he's going down this year. You know what I call that? Sweet.

335 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:04pm

re: #275 texasjihad

You, my friend sound like true self righteous hypocrite. Your humanism is still responsible for much human suffering in history. Why don't you do more than throw rocks at people who are doing lots of work to help others.

You have no idea what you talk about.
Waving your brush in broad strokes to deal with everything you disagree with leads not to knowledge but continued ignorance.

336 Palandine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:18pm

re: #329 paradox42

How do you she is a witch?

Well....

If she weighs the same as a duck
then she's made of wood.

And therefore?

A witch!

337 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:23pm

re: #201 Crimsonfisted

I loved that. Getting ready for this huge wizard battle, then BLAM!

338 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:23pm

re: #297 Salamantis

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

339 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:49pm

re: #310 kansas

WTF is it with religion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

It is key to a Christian world view. It also is clearly a complicating factor to the idea that random things tend to result in improvement.

340 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:24:49pm

re: #324 texasjihad

Evolution isn't intantaneous. The difference in the time scales is vast.
That (Hoyle) idea has been debunked many times.

341 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:02pm
342 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:15pm

re: #286 calcajun

I have always thought it would have made a good comedy sketch a la Bob Newhart's "phone calls" with Moses taking dictation from God on how the universe was made. Moses is furiously taking down notes on tide pools, amino acids, recombinant DNA, etc., when he looks heavenward and says to God, that if he tries to tell this to a Bronze-Age people, he'll get lynched. "Can I make a suggestion, Lord? One word; allegory! They'll buy that! They'll never go for the technical stuff. "

Visionary. Absolutely visionary! Really funny notion.

343 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:28pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

I think it's a tragedy for Christians to promote ignorance instead of dealing with genuine human suffering. Instead of working to alleviate human suffering, they're encouraging it through ignorance. How much suffering is there on this planet because of the ignorance of others? I think it's shameful to promote it.

In the Roman world the sick were sometimes thrown out of home by family members who feared catching the disease. Unwanted children were thrown out or sold. Widows had to fend for themselves. One of the main reasons Christianity spread was that Christians were the only people who would consistently help. Hospitals and orphanages were originally started by Christians. Dealing with the sick, unwanted and impoverished is difficult. It is much easier to try to win hearts with an impersonal museum or a school curriculum based on creationism Intelligent Design. The only problem is that impersonal rarely (never?) works.

344 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:54pm

re: #163 M. Bensson-Levi

re: #132 Naso Tang

You also haven't considered where we would be if the deniers of science had their way, or have their way as they seem to want.

Levi: As in the "Copernicus Doctrine"?

I believe that it actually has to do with Ptolemy and his bizarrely elaborate geocentrism-justifying epicycles.

345 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:25:57pm

re: #335 gman

You have no idea what you talk about.
Waving your brush in broad strokes to deal with everything you disagree with leads not to knowledge but continued ignorance.

And you provide so much light? Gimme a brake.

346 cicero05  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:03pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Where did Cain find his bride?

I've always wondered whether God surprised when Eve ate the apple, or did he know it would happen all along?

If he knew it would happen all along, does that Eve had no free will?

347 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:10pm

re: #316 Mars Needs Neocons

OOPS SORRY.

texasjihad

Registered since: May 18, 2007 at 7:12 pm
No. of comments posted: 16
No. of links posted: 0

You've just been waiting for something like this. No one is going to convince you of anything.

348 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:20pm

re: #334 kevinmumaw

OT: A jaw-dropping political miracle may be on the horizon.

It's about Murtha. I think he's going down this year. You know what I call that? Sweet.

Kev, you made my evening! Thanks!

349 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:34pm

I'm gettin' really, really tired of coming to these threads and nobody telling Charles what not to post! I so looked forward to that.

350 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:49pm
351 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:26:59pm

re: #241 pingjockey

Don't know the second one.

352 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:27:03pm

re: #327 Salamantis

Well, I guess it sucks to be a Wiccan in Appalachia.

353 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:27:14pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

You do not comprehend chemicals very well, do you?

Tornadoes are not electrical impulses.

Auto salvage yards are not chemicals.

Automobiles are not cells.

The short violence of a tornado is not 100 million years.

You are not in your league.

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

354 pegcity  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:06pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones

Sorry but i believe that you have to be off the charts retarded to believe this nonsense.

355 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:53pm

Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy:

The name comes from a fictitious Texas "sharpshooter" who fires a gun into the side of a barn, then draws a bullseye around the bullet hole. Though the shot may have been totally random, he makes it appear as though he has performed a highly non-random act. In normal target practice, the bullseye defines a region of significance, and there's a low probability of hitting it by firing in a random direction. However, when the region of significance is determined after the event has occurred, any outcome at all can be made to appear spectacularly improbable.

This probability appears commonly in creationist arguments that the evolution of a particular biological structure, like a given protein sequence, is some outrageously small number. Hence, they infer that the probability of its formation was low. This is fallacious because it assumes that evolution had the goal of producing that particular structure. This argument is also frequently applied to abiogenesis. This argument is also frequently used to claim how "unlikely" the cosmos formed by "accident."

356 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:28:53pm

Since ya'll are paying attention, the young earth creationists that is. Instead of just directing you I'll repost it.

To all YEC'ers. Get an Interlinear Bible. A Strong's Concordance. Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.

In Gen. 1:2 (Amplified Bible)
The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.

You will find the word was is more properly rendered became.

In the six days of creation the Hebrew word is yowm. Yowm can have different meanings depending on context.

And finally...
Psalm 89:14 (Amplified Bible)
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and loving-kindness and truth go before Your face.
John 17:17 (Amplified Bible)
Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth
Deuteronomy 32:4 (Amplified Bible)
He is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are law and justice. A God of faithfulness without breach or deviation, just and right is He.

Given these verses explain how God whose work is perfect, whose Word is truth, whose authority is founded on his righteousness could place falsehoods in His creation. Because when you claim that the earth is 6000 yo that's what you are claiming.

357 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:02pm

re: #210 jaunte

Like this: [Link: imagecache2.allposters.com...]

WTF is it with all the damn sleepers around here lately?

358 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:15pm

re: #342 M. Bensson-Levi

Thanks for the props. Been wanting to set that down for years.

359 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:19pm

re: #349 theparson

I'm gettin' really, really tired of coming to these threads and nobody telling Charles what not to post! I so looked forward to that.

Is that a dare? ;-) Why don't YOU do it! Double dare ya.

360 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:26pm

re: #324 texasjihad
re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

Well, when I read "The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system" I figured right away that Jaunte thinks that if a tornado passes over a salvage yard that will eventually result in the building of a perfect car. My bet is you heard that from a guy who was prancing about a stage and saying GEEEEEEEESUS.

361 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:32pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

I don't profess to have a clue. I'm not omiscient and all knowing. Here's a clue: neither are you.

362 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:48pm

re: #354 pegcity

That's not fair, people who are retarted can't help the way they are. These people choose ignorance. Its not the same.

363 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:52pm

re: #354 pegcity

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones


People + Dinasours = The Flinestones
The Flintstones + Feet-driven car = Al Gore

We have come full circle I see.

364 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:29:54pm

re: #354 pegcity

People + Dinasours = The Flinestones

Sorry but i believe that you have to be off the charts retarded to believe this nonsense.

Dude, no offense, but if you're gonna fling "retarded", use spell check.

/just a friendly tip

365 calcajun  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:40pm

re: #362 paradox42

Oh, I cannot let that one pass. That's a wee bit arrogant of you, don't you think?

366 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:52pm

re: #351 Mars Needs Neocons
What? You heathen. It is a Led Zeppelin concert movie.

367 Jim D  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:30:59pm

re: #137 kc8ukw

They aren't ignorant - this topic they know very well. And they aren't trying to deceive people to get them to accept some agenda - they honestly believe what they say. So think about that before you go name-calling.

Charles and many other have shown quite conclusively that they are indeed trying to deceive people. They try to deceive us by propagating lies about science, deliberate misquotes of respected scientists, and in their attempts to get religion taught as science in our schools.

368 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:12pm

re: #324 texasjihad

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

A tornado is a highly organized storm, as is a hurricane. How's that possible?

In any case, your analogy is easily destroyed. Like all creationists, you conveniently leave out natural selection when it suits you.

If you had a mechanism wherein, every time a tornado passed over the junkyard, anytime one car part landed near an adjacent part those parts were bolted down so the next tornado couldn't move them, after a while you would, in fact, get something resembling a car.

In nature, this mechanism is called natural selection. It is not random.

And no scientist proposes that amoebas just popped into existence fully formed. Rather, amoebas had much simpler ancestors...and those ancestors had even simpler ancestors. All you need for evolution to get started is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

369 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:18pm

re: #359 katemaclaren

Is that a dare? ;-) Why don't YOU do it! Double dare ya.

Ha! You coulda had me with a triple dare! Too late now.

370 Rockman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:40pm

The Flintstones was a ground breaking documentary...

371 Thanos  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:31:57pm

Charles,

This post seems to have drawn more than the normal amount of ID proponents, any speculations as to why?


/ YEC'ers have become an embarrasment to DI...

372 Alouette  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:07pm

Oh shoot I dinged down #367 by mistake.

373 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:14pm
374 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:32:57pm

re: #354 pegcity

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

375 kevinmumaw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:33:19pm

re: #348 katemaclaren

My pleasure, it's hard to rock as hard as I do. JK, but I really think this is going to happen. I was in a political science class back in 1994 and we had to fill out a form for our prediction for the 94 elections. I was the only one out of about 150 that said Mario Cuomo would lose re-election for Governor of New York and my professor laughed at me when I turned in my sheet. Of course, Mario was defeated in 1994. And Murtha is going down in 2008.

376 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:33:32pm

re: #184 texasjihad

Christianity is based on facts and history. If Jesus claimed to be-- I AM --the Creator God, and He did--then His priority is not moral teaching. If Adam was a man in History and Christ who is described in Romans 5 as the second Adam came to fix the fall of man in Adam. Death came AFTER Adam sinned. Man is restored to God because Christ died to pay the penalty for the sin of all men in the same way all are condemned in Adam. This is the plan of God to offer eternal life as a free gift to all based on the price being paid by One. This is at the core of True Christian Theology.

Yeah, I've seen people try to drag a literal acceptance of the Adam & Eve myth in on Jesus' garment hems before. It doesn't wash. Unless you are willing to believe that a woman was the original Adamic tempter, and, worse than that, dumb enough to be seduced into evilly persuading Adam to gobble the forbidden goodie with her by a talking snake.

377 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:10pm

I don't remember any dinosaurs in the Bible, I think this museum a was influenced more by old Flintstones re-runs than by science or the book of Genesis.

378 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:47pm

re: #353 texasjihad
No idea. My faith tells me the universe was created. That doesn't mean the Supreme being didn't set down the properties for life and let it do its thing over time. The Universe is somewhere around 14 billion years old. That is a lot of time for anything and everything to exist.

379 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:34:59pm

re: #330 katemaclaren

I once saw a big hand-painted sign beside the highway (small highway!) that said "Philosophy lessons $25."

My first professor of Western Civ told us "The university is a marketplace of ideas--don't buy any of them."

Popping back in briefly.

To me, the marketplace is all about exchange.

380 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:15pm

re: #360 kansas

re: #295 jaunte

The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system.

Does this mean you think that if enough tornadoes pass over a auto salvage yard that they will eventually build a perfect car? The difference is that all the parts are there and a car is extremely simple compared to a amoeba.

Well, when I read "The world is, energetically speaking, an open system. The sun constantly provides more energy to the system" I figured right away that Jaunte thinks that if a tornado passes over a salvage yard that will eventually result in the building of a perfect car. My bet is you heard that from a guy who was prancing about a stage and saying GEEEEEEEESUS.

My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either.

381 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:20pm
382 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:25pm

re: #131 Purple Prose

Christ never spoke, according to the Gospels, of how old the world is or how life on Earth came into being.

Here Purple Prose.

383 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:37pm

re: #314 OldLineTexan

Chinese people lived with Dinosaurs?

Well, until dinnertime, anyway...

A Chinese (or, technically, a Taiwanese-American immigrant) co-worker once quoted to me a joke that the Chinese have about their own cuisine: "We Chinese eat everything with legs except a table, and everything with wings except an airplane."

At least, I think it was meant jokingly...

384 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:45pm

re: #369 theparson

Well, DANG!

385 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:35:49pm

re: #338 kc8ukw

You sound like the people I talk to on liberal blogs who can't comprehend why any intelligent person would vote McCain. Why do they say this? Part of the reason is that they received a liberal education/indoctrination for years, and now surround themselves with people who show them the good side of Obama only, the bad side of McCain only.

Your education has probably consisted mainly of evidence for and explanations of evolution. Have you devoted as much time, or at least a lot of time, to really listen to the explanation of the other side? You really have to get it from the horses mouth to get the real perspective. As I said, these aren't dumb, or ignorant, people.

LOL believe us, we know a hell of a lot more about creationism and I.D. than you know about evolution. It's not like there's a whole lot there to study...Ben Stein's movie "Expelled" pretty much covered the creationist/I.D. "explanations" and "evidence."

And it doesn't matter if these people aren't dumb or ignorant, they are still wrong. Sometimes, the very smart and very wrong people are the scariest, because they really have to twist their brains into pretzels and compartmentalize, compartmentalize, compartmentalize to maintain their belief systems.

386 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:08pm

Now where did these folks ever get the idea that dinosaurs were around in Noah's day?

I distinctly recall from Genesis that Noah was instructed to gather

"two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive."

Genesis 6:19-20

If dinosaurs died out in the Flood, or indeed if any species died out, Noah would have disobeyed God's commandment. If Noah was faithful, the Flood should not have caused any extinctions...

387 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:17pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

I'm waiting for the New Flintstones--the post-Modern Stone Age Family--to come out.

That would be Al and Tipper.

388 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:18pm

re: #344 Salamantis

OK.

389 meeshlr  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:37pm

re: #32 grumpy old codger

Charles, I've no doubt that you consider it interesting and important. I just think that, personally, I'm less worried about someone who believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 10 years ago, versus the "Rage Boy" type who wishes to cut my head off. Right now, "Rage Boy" is, I believe, the greater threat.
I've not been shot at by creationist Bible thumpers. Well, maybe not yet.
And congrats on the no ulcer issue. Thought that the stress of the threats you've advised us of, i.e., changing biking routes, etc., might have had an effect.

I don't believe that we should ignore everything that we might perceive of as a "lesser threat" than Islamist terrorists. Am I in any imminent danger from the creationists or intelligent design proponents? No. Does that mean that it's not worth talking about? Absolutely not.

That creationists and Young Earthers present their beliefs as scientific fact in a museum setting is troubling. Picture a child who has been to that museum returning to their class and passing along the "truth" that they learned on summer vacation. I don't want that in my children's classroom. Presenting religious doctrine as scientific fact is dangerous. Obviously not the same kind of danger as a terrorist but, honestly, it has a greater impact on my day-to-day life as a mother.

As a related aside, I want to read about Islamist threats, Obama's latest gaffe, creationists inroads into our schools, and what book I should read next. I find all of that in blogs and the presence of lighter topics doesn't diminish the more serious ones. If I'm not interested in something, I just page down.

390 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:42pm

re: #377 Ringo the Gringo

well if your premise is that the earth is 6000 years old,you gotta explain away all those pesky fossils folks are always digging up.either they co-existed with man,or god is playing practical jokes.

391 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:49pm

re: #374 kc8ukw

I think if LGF really wants to help this debate, they should pick an evolution related topic, and then allow a real scientist on each side of the issue to post, in full, their opinion. I would love to read that.

I think you already do read that, but so far you are not sure of the differences.

//

392 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:36:57pm
393 texasjihad  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:04pm

re: #376 Salamantis

Yeah, I've seen people try to drag a literal acceptance of the Adam & Eve myth in on Jesus' garment hems before. It doesn't wash. Unless you are willing to believe that a woman was the original Adamic tempter, and, worse than that, dumb enough to be seduced into evilly persuading Adam to gobble the forbidden goodie with her by a talking snake.

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:11pm

re: #370 Rockman

The Flintstones was a ground breaking documentary...

"Barney Rubble, what an actor"

Line from the movie, "Night Shift"

395 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:42pm

re: #383 Throbert McGee

A Chinese (or, technically, a Taiwanese-American immigrant) co-worker once quoted to me a joke that the Chinese have about their own cuisine: "We Chinese eat everything with legs except a table, and everything with wings except an airplane."

At least, I think it was meant jokingly...

I have been once, and ate a few odd things.

/I was least impressed with jellyfish (chew some plastic) and sea cucumber (chew some newspaper soaked in water for a week).

396 pingjockey  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:37:59pm

re: #380 texasjihad
Well, I can't speak for Kansas, but I can't recall Jesus every personally asking me a question.

397 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:14pm

re: #321 Tigger2005

What's an evolutionist?


Thre: #380 texasjihad

My guess is you do not like for Jesus to ask you questions that are more weighty than these that you can not answer either.



I do not like for Jesus to ask me questions? Next time we have a meeting, I'll let you know.

398 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:39pm

re: #356 jcm

One, I'm not a YEC.
Two, I know your heart is in the right place but you miss the several points of the scriptures you cite.

The portion dealing with creation is Moses attempt to understand the majesty that is God and the wonder that is this world.
God's throne is not found on this earth.
Jesus was praying that, in His absence, His followers would become consecrated to Him.
And, finally, the writer was not talking about creation but about the righteousness and judgements of God.

399 AndyMacOP  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:38:48pm

re: #390 Boondock St. Bender

well if your premise is that the earth is 6000 years old,you gotta explain away all those pesky fossils folks are always digging up.either they co-existed with man,or god is playing practical jokes.

Yes, please read my whole post #332.

400 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

I THINK LIFE AROSE WHEN PRIMORDIAL LONG-CHAIN PROTEINS WERE SUDDENLY HIT WITH THE SHOCK OF CAPS LOCK

401 Naso Tang  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #393 texasjihad

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

To quote an often quoted argument from your side of the fence; I wasn't there to see or hear it, so there is no way to state that it really happened.

402 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:22pm
403 IRQ Conflict  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:39:56pm

re: #204 Tigger2005

All you need to begin with is an imperfectly self-replicating molecule.

Great! Now how did that happen?

404 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:28pm

re: #400 Occasional Reader

I THINK LIFE AROSE WHEN PRIMORDIAL LONG-CHAIN PROTEINS WERE SUDDENLY HIT WITH THE SHOCK OF CAPS LOCK

I feel something stirring now...

405 Inquisitive  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:39pm

re: #308 Sharmuta

So you think $27 million to promote this completely ignorant worldview is beneficial to humanity versus spending it on food, clothing and shelters for the needy? Do you honestly think this is what Jesus would want his followers doing with their resources?


That can be a yes and no answer.
yes if it is spreading the word, as a christian is suppose to do, and no if they have not used other monies to help others. I don't know if they charge a fee or accept donations from those that come to tour, and if they do collect monies , what they do with it. It may be that they use the funds received, if any, to do the good deeds you refer to.

406 kc8ukw  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:40:56pm

re: #354 pegcity

And just to clarify my own position - I am always inclined to read the Bible as literally as possible, (unless it is speaking otherwise... ahem.) I think that interpretation leads to AIG style creationism. But I also recognize that the Bible records many examples of, for example, prophecies that were fulfilled - but not in the way a literal reader would naturally expect. So I also don't, um, usually go around arguing with Christians who believe in some other sort of creationism (you'd better put God somewhere though), and I certainly don't think a young earth creationism belief is necessary for salvation.

407 kansas  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:00pm

re: #402 buzzsawmonkey

Would you care to provide a cite for that Jesus quote?

I think Jesus talks to TJ. Might be a sign of dementia.

408 katemaclaren  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:00pm

Well, guys, I have to hit the hay. See you tomorrow when we'll see what "fresh new hell awaits us." (not a perfect quote from Dorothy Parker, but close enough).

409 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:34pm

re: #51 Mich-again

I see that the theological point has already been made.

What the genetic evidence should show, then, is a massive population crash in all species simultaneously, as evidenced by an extreme restriction of genetic diversity.

Go at it, IDers...

410 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:41:59pm

re: #358 calcajun

Thanks for the props. Been wanting to set that down for years.

Do it! Just channel Bob Newhart, and do it. Even if you do it poorly, which I doubt, it'll be great. The concept is a howler.

Do it, and post it here. We'll all laugh.

Hell, I may steal the idea from you and do it myself!

411 Tigger2005  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:05pm

re: #393 texasjihad

When Jesus said that HE believed Genesis to be the truth --do you think He was lying or that He was just stupid.

False dichotomy, similar to C.S. Lewis' "lord, liar, or lunatic" fallacy. Jesus could have been mistaken, or honestly believed what most other Jews at that time probably believed.

You're also making the assumption that Salamantis shares your view that Jesus is the omniscient Creator of the Universe in human form. If he doesn't, your argument is pretty meaningless.

It's debatable whether Jewish scholars believed Genesis to be literally true, by the way. If they did why did they include two different creation stores in the Pentateuch? Most Jewish scholars today certainly don't regard Genesis as literally true, and it is their scripture, after all.

412 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:28pm
413 deesine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:37pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Talk about cognitive disorders- how anyone can believe dinosaurs and human's co-existed is beyond me. Not to offend anyone, but seriously- this is just nuts.

It is nuts, for two reasons that I can see. 1) The us v.s. them (persecution) complex runs very very big in many strains of Protestant Christianity. There's almost an unwritten rule in these spheres that whatever can be labeled "of this world" will be diametrically opposed. 2) Magical thinking. Adults who embrace this type of thinking are having a bumpy time in their developmental transition from a primarily mythologically based spirituality to a rational spirituality.

I can remember well hearing my aunt 19 years ago tell me how the Earth is only ~6,000 years old. Wow. That was during my atheist phase and I really didn't know where to begin. These threads have been incredibly enlightening and useful in this regard: I will not be avoiding this topic at our next family get together.

About the co-existence of man and dinos: "Satan has been given dominion over Earth. Are you saying that Satan can't do something so simple as create old bones?" It's a mythological stance, through and through. You are accepted and saved only by believing the myths, not because of any pneumaticism, awakening, or "spirit aliveness" you may have experienced or exhibit.

-

414 ratherdashing  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:42:39pm

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

415 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:43:56pm

re: #412 buzzsawmonkey

Just as long as you don't stop twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

416 reno911  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:14pm

This seems like a good time for more Bill Hicks.

“I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.”

417 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:18pm

OK Everyone -

On this thread - "NYTOL!"

-S-

418 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:19pm

re: #412 buzzsawmonkey

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

419 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:20pm

re: #414 ratherdashing

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

Do I really?

/I did not know that about myself
//channeling Ron White

420 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:34pm
421 gman  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:44:36pm

re: #345 texasjihad

And you provide so much light? Gimme a brake.

Fundamentalist Religions love to paint everyone outside of their membership as sinners that will burn in hell.

Why do they use such a broad brush to paint everyone else as sinners?

I believe like Purple Prose mentioned above that we need to focus on Jesus' message of love. That to me is what life is all about. To love and be loved.

The fundamentalist paradigm of "our congregation vs. the rest of the world" is just a fear tactic to fill the pews. It is not based on Jesus' message of love.

422 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:48pm

re: #343 David IV of Georgia

In the Roman world the sick were sometimes thrown out of home by family members who feared catching the disease. Unwanted children were thrown out or sold. Widows had to fend for themselves. One of the main reasons Christianity spread was that Christians were the only people who would consistently help. Hospitals and orphanages were originally started by Christians. Dealing with the sick, unwanted and impoverished is difficult. It is much easier to try to win hearts with an impersonal museum or a school curriculum based on creationism Intelligent Design. The only problem is that impersonal rarely (never?) works.

I think the more important aspect of Christianity is compassion for our fellow man/woman, yet this seems to be lost on those who insist on literal creation. Insisting that I must reject the use of my God given reason instead of promoting Divine compassion is, imo, a disservice to God and a poor way to go about promoting the Faith of Christianity.

423 Carridine  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:49pm

re: #353 texasjihad

AND WHERE DO YOU THINK LIFE CAME FROM?

Ambiguous question, showing your ignorance of the discussion to-date.

Accepting that God set everything in motion does NOT require that God suddenly disallowed evolution. Accepting that God DID IT ALL, or CREATED LIFE is a FINE, RIGHTEOUS assertion, but it is NOT HELPFUL scientifically.

"We've got some anomalies with the para-2-di-amino chains, Doctor."

"No problem, God makes them do that."

"Oh. Okay."

Science and Religion can function in harmony, Texas, if we but allow God to have done it correctly, as the All-Knowing, the All-Loving.

424 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:45:54pm

Materialism: Admission to the Creation Museum is $19.95.
Of course the Museum has 160 employees, so there might not be much left over after they and the power bill is paid.

425 jaunte  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:47:04pm

Don't let GOTC see that last post.

426 theparson  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:07pm

re: #414 ratherdashing

Christians see attacks on "creation" as an attack on the underpinnings of Old Testament teaching. The Old Testament set the stage for the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It's the chipping away at the foundation that they fear.

Your sweeping indictment of Christians ignores many of the posts on all of these type threads and does an injustice to many non thiests.
You many say "Some", "Many", "A lot" and etc.
I do not fear any such "chipping away". I am quite confident in my Christianity and enjoy reading and hearing alternative opinions.

427 jcm  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:12pm

re: #398 theparson

One, I'm not a YEC.
Two, I know your heart is in the right place but you miss the several points of the scriptures you cite.

The portion dealing with creation is Moses attempt to understand the majesty that is God and the wonder that is this world.
God's throne is not found on this earth.
Jesus was praying that, in His absence, His followers would become consecrated to Him.
And, finally, the writer was not talking about creation but about the righteousness and judgements of God.

Scripture is a whole, one continuous tapestry, with a single thread running through each and every verse of the entire Bible. You are correct in your interpretation, but there is also the larger context in which you have to reconcile everything in the Bible. God authority is based on his unfailing righteousness, His Word every one is Truth, and his Works all of them are perfect.

428 right_on_target  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:19pm

The problem is is that someone will want to out do this Craetionist Museum and build a bigger, more elaborate one.
I'm glad that from the Flickr "Needless to say, our American Association of Museum membership cards did us no good there,"
quote lets us know that this is a "museum" that gets no official recognition.

429 paradox42  Wed, Jul 23, 2008 7:48:21pm