LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

ISNA's Latest Filing Doesn't Deny Ties to Hamas

Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:06:43 am PDT

As we’ve noted previously, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) has been trying to get the government to remove them from the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy Land Foundation trial, and they’ve hit on a novel method of arguing their case. They’re not denying ties to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood; they’re just claiming that the information is “out of date.”

In its latest filing before the federal district court in Dallas on behalf of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) and its affiliate organization, the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) in the Hamas-terrorism financing case, the ACLU has made a noteworthy admission.

Rather than deny that there is copious evidence tying ISNA and NAIT to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, the brief argues that such evidence is merely dated. In a curious footnote on page 7, the reply states:

Assuming the authenticity of documents’ dates, the most recent documents to mention either ISNA or NAIT are dated 1991, Gov. Exhs. 3-3 and 3-85, but the majority of the documents are older. Almost all of the numerous exhibits that purport to show financial transactions and that contain any mention of ISNA or NAIT are dated 1988 and 1989 (there are two dated 1990), almost a decade before the majority of the overt acts the government alleges in support of its conspiracy charges against the HLF defendants.

So ISNA and NAIT are not saying that the documents tying their organizations to Hamas are “inauthentic,” but that the problem with the evidence is just that it is old. Then, even more curiously, the reply goes on to argue something that the government has not even alleged:

Even if the “evidence” provided some basis for alleging criminality against petitioners, the government’s discussion of it shows the government utterly fails to grasp the singular weight and consequence that an official accusation of criminal conduct carries in our criminal justice system and in our society.

But, of course, the government has not charged ISNA or NAIT with criminal conduct, or the two groups would be indicted in their own right, rather than un-indicted co-conspirators who worked with the Holy Land for Relief and Development (HLF), the defendant and alleged Hamas-front. The reply brief then, as Shakespeare might write, “doth protest too much.”

Advertisement

77 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Adrenalyn  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:08:56am

how about ties to Obama

2 Adrenalyn  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:09:31am

any idea if they know how to use the internet
you know, to send in anonymous, untraceable donations

3 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:09:39am

The Legal Jihad.

4 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:10:11am

It's time to prosecute them for the terrorists and terrorist sympathizers they are. No more Mr. Goodbar.

5 Rogue198  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:10:13am

They're taking a page from the Paulians. Those racist writings were all decades old and thus, irrelevant.

But Bush's TANG papers are perfectly relevant.

6 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:14:42am

Information is out of date how? Hamas still exists. The Muslim Brotherhood still exists.

INSA's ties to those groups, and the individuals who support those groups with financial support are still there.

Besides, all that information shows that the ties are longstanding and numerous. Far from exonerating INSA, it damns them.

7 quickjustice  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:15:57am

"That was then, this is now!"

8 CIA Reject  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:16:31am
"So ISNA and NAIT are not saying that the documents tying their organizations to Hamas are “inauthentic,” but that the problem with the evidence is just that it is old."

Didn't Eichmann try that one?

9 Thanos  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:16:53am

This is the standard disclaimer for groups like this.

"We've changed since then."

If you believe that....

10 Silhouette  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:16:53am

Step 1: We have no links to terrorists.
Step 2: Okay, we have links, but only to the philanthropic side.
Step 3: Yes, we have links, but what of it? The terrorism, as you call it, is necessary.
Step 4: Submit, or die.

11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:17:50am

Indict them.

12 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:17:53am
Even if the “evidence” provided some basis for alleging criminality against petitioners, the government’s discussion of it shows the government utterly fails to grasp the singular weight and consequence that an official accusation of criminal conduct carries in our criminal justice system and in our society.

You gotta love the scare quotes.

13 quickjustice  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:18:23am

Like Obama's grandma, just too old.

14 Silhouette  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:18:27am

What is the statute of limitations of genocidal mania?

15 aunursa  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:18:35am

There's a simple solution to this predicament.

They can demonstrate that they no longer have ties to these terrorist groups simply by issuing an unambiguous and unconditional condemnation and repudiation of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood as terrorist groups -- in both English and Arabic.

16 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:20:22am

Slightly OT: Now this is the kind of good news I like to see coming out of Iran:

Hizbullah convoy likely hit in Iran

17 CIA Reject  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:20:28am

re: #15 aunursa

Yeah, but there's that little "wink wink, nudge nudge" clause in their koran that gets them off the hook with lying in situations like that.

18 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:20:41am

In a joint motion, defendants in United States v. Holy Land Foundation, et al. seek to have U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis of the Northern District of Texas postpone a retrial, because, they allege, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has not paid most of the legal fees for four of the defendants' court-appointed lawyers since October 2007 when a mistrial in the case was declared. The defendants also allege the 5th Circuit has not paid or approved expenses related to defense preparations for the Sept. 8 retrial.

SNIP

In their July 15 joint motion, the defendants argue that with one exception the 5th Circuit has not approved payment for appointed counsels' hourly work and for their out-of-pocket expenses since October 2007. The defendants allege that one appointed counsel "has not been paid at all for work on the case up to and including the first trial."

St. Amant says the 5th Circuit has not yet approved three vouchers for that particular lawyer but they are being processed.

The defendants further allege in the motion that for the September retrial, "No funds have been provided for experts, translators, or paralegals for these indigent defendants."

SNIP

19 talkradiobug  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:21:29am

Is a ten year old murder "out of date"?

20 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:22:40am

re: #19 talkradiobug

Is a ten year old murder "out of date"?

I could've sworn there's no statute of limitations on murder charges.

21 DeafDog  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:23:31am

re: #16 Creeping Eruption

Slightly OT: Now this is the kind of good news I like to see coming out of Iran:

Hizbullah convoy likely hit in Iran

Mossad

22 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:24:02am

re: #20 Honorary Yooper

I could've sworn there's no statute of limitations on murder charges.

It would depend on the laws of the jurisdiction in which the murder took place. I do not know, but seriously doubt whether there is an SOL on homicide.

23 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:24:18am

re: #21 DeafDog

I know . . .Isn't it great?

24 VegasRick  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:25:12am

Where is "JustMySpew" to defend these folks?

25 Neo Con since 9-11  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:26:15am

"Out of date"? I wasn't aware there was a statute of limitations on murder.

26 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:27:29am

re: #22 Creeping Eruption

It would depend on the laws of the jurisdiction in which the murder took place. I do not know, but seriously doubt whether there is an SOL on homicide.

If it's within the US, then there is no SOL in any jurisdiction within the US.

27 DeafDog  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:27:35am

re: #23 Creeping Eruption

Yes (part of me hopes that the CIA is also involved).

28 nyc redneck  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:27:39am

leopard hoping to change it's spots.

29 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:28:22am

from the last thread:
Rush said part of obama's speech was lifted from Bono's live 8 concert.

30 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:28:36am

OT
Obambi is holding a joint press conference with the French President.
He is acting like he has ALREADY BEEN ELECTED!

31 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:29:39am

re: #15 aunursa

What, and get their usual taqiya, complete with modifiers that permit mass murder? Heck, Wahhaj tried that yesterday, when he was questioned (and admitted) over his being an unindicted coconspirator in the 1993 WTC bombing.

32 leboaz  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:29:54am

"This is not the murderous support of terror that I knew"

no surprises here- just disgusting

33 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:31:25am

HE IS SUCKING>uh....uh....uh

34 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:32:41am

re: #29 newsjunkie_ky

And one could have a hard time trying to figure out which part of his speech was his own, and which was lifted from "We are the world"

35 Adrenalyn  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:32:45am

re: #33 Typicalwhitey

HE IS SUCKING>uh....uh....uh

ah, my good man
you must be confusing him with Monica

36 leah  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:33:46am

no doubt the govt will lose this case again just like it did HLF - with groups like the ACLU the country will be under sharia in short time...

Just like this case of an American lawyer filing a lawsuit against the US on behalf of Iran - to prevent a US airstrike on Irans nuke...wtf

37 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:33:54am

re: #21 DeafDog

Mossad

"Mo' happy"

38 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:33:57am

re: #35 Adrenalyn


MAN?

39 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:34:17am

re: #26 Honorary Yooper

If it's within the US, then there is no SOL in any jurisdiction within the US.

I guess it depends on what is charged. For example, in Wisconsin, there is no sol for first degree reckless homicide, but a 15 years sol on second degree reckless homicide.

40 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:34:38am

asking him how many specific troops does he want in afghanistan from european countries?

41 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:34:39am

re: #27 DeafDog

If nothing else, to boost their morale

42 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:35:04am

You gotta listen to this moron!

43 Cygnus  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:35:27am

re: #30 Typicalwhitey

OT
Obambi is holding a joint press conference with the French President.
He is acting like he has ALREADY BEEN ELECTED!

He is truly a legend in his own mind.

44 CIA Reject  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:35:45am

re: #42 Typicalwhitey

You gotta listen to this moron!

Must I? Geez, I just finished lunch! :-)

45 Adrenalyn  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:36:24am

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

MAN?

oh shit !

my bad apparently
initiating sincere apology mode
(bows head)

46 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:36:37am

re: #44 CIA Reject

I am taking one for the team!

47 nyc redneck  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:36:54am

re: #29 newsjunkie_ky

from the last thread:
Rush said part of obama's speech was lifted from Bono's live 8 concert.

he also just said mccain got a bounce from b.o.'s european dog and pony show.
lol

48 Iron Fist  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:37:59am

re: #16 Creeping Eruption,

Maybe, just maybe, we're taking the terror war to the Iranians. Anything that kills Revolutionary Guards or interfers with Hizb'allah is a good thing. You simply can't kill enough of those people.

49 Pyrocles  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:38:13am

Some people are suicidal and want to die. Other people are suicidal and want to take their whole culture with them.

re: #36 leah

no doubt the govt will lose this case again just like it did HLF - with groups like the ACLU the country will be under sharia in short time...

Just like this case of an American lawyer filing a lawsuit against the US on behalf of Iran - to prevent a US airstrike on Irans nuke...wtf

50 CIA Reject  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:38:28am

re: #46 Typicalwhitey

I am taking one for the team!

I got some Pepto-Bismol in my desk here if you need it...

51 Cygnus  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:39:37am

re: #46 Typicalwhitey

I am taking one for the team!

Give that Lizard some hazardous duty pay!

52 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:39:46am

re: #36 leah

no doubt the govt will lose this case again just like it did HLF - with groups like the ACLU the country will be under sharia in short time...

Just like this case of an American lawyer filing a lawsuit against the US on behalf of Iran - to prevent a US airstrike on Irans nuke...wtf

The government didn't lose the HLF case. The court declared a mistrial.

53 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:40:00am

re: #36 leah

no doubt the govt will lose this case again just like it did HLF - with groups like the ACLU the country will be under sharia in short time...

Just like this case of an American lawyer filing a lawsuit against the US on behalf of Iran - to prevent a US airstrike on Irans nuke...wtf

A suit about continued threats to stop Iran's enrichment program. How about Israel suing Iran over its threats to destroy Israel?
Oh, this is to the World Court. They'd condemn Israel just for existing.

54 ORD neighbor  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:40:17am

I really don't like these unindicted co-conspirators and entities staying unindicted.

55 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:40:32am

re: #48 Iron Fist

,

Maybe, just maybe, we're taking the terror war to the Iranians. Anything that kills Revolutionary Guards or interfers with Hizb'allah is a good thing. You simply can't kill enough of those people.

I hope you are right. The article lists a number of recent mishaps to weapons transfers and personnel in the area.

56 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:40:47am

re: #50 CIA Reject

This is helping me to lose a few pounds.

57 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:41:38am

re: #51 Cygnus

I HOPE this is being televised!
Being loved by the french is not a good thing hahaha

58 friarstale  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:41:41am

perhaps they could speak with a rebranding expert

(I just love that word: expert.
How can you criticize Islam?
Are you an expert?)

60 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:42:36am

ISNA knows it's in deep doo-doo, otherwise they wouldn't be trying this tack.

61 CIA Reject  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:43:24am

re: #56 Typicalwhitey

This is helping me to lose a few pounds.

Heh, The lame walk, the blind see, and even the portly shed pounds - see, he really is the messiah!

////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////

62 Silhouette  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:43:31am

re: #29 newsjunkie_ky

Rush said part of obama's speech was lifted from Bono's live 8 concert.

Dude*, there's, like, a lot of poetry about life and stuff in, like, your average rock song. If we just ran the world according to rock songs, it would be sweeeeeet. Rage against the machine, man*!


*and I mean that in the generic, non-gender specific way.

63 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:43:39am

re: #55 Creeping Eruption

I hope you are right. The article lists a number of recent mishaps to weapons transfers and personnel in the area.

I'm waiting for the "accidents" in their uranium enrichment facilities. Preferably during a visit by the mullahs and Amadmanonjihad. A few lungfuls of UF6 wished on all the mullahs and Amadmanonjihad.

64 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:44:12am

He just said that people should see that America is considering the security and prosperity of Muslim countries and African countries and that we don't just look at it through an "American Lense"

65 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:46:10am

re: #63 Kosh's Shadow

I'm waiting for the "accidents" in their uranium enrichment facilities. Preferably during a visit by the mullahs and Amadmanonjihad. A few lungfuls of UF6 wished on all the mullahs and Amadmanonjihad.

Maybe Mossad will pull the same stunt Shin-Bet does when it intercepts arms and ammo and fiddles with the stuff so it blows when a pali tries to use it.

66 pat  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:52:11am

I have seen the insides of a number of Iranian factories from various sources on the web. They are very primitive. In addition, I have read blogs by ex Iranians that ssy that the factories are all owned by Revolutionary Guard personnel, so the pressure on the workers is enormous. Anyone with any sense soon quits leaving the operations to the least skilled and educated. BTW, I wonder what the former nuclear negotiator that defected to America is telling us? Very quiet.I suspect accidents are frequent.

67 CommonCents  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:57:19am

re: #16 Creeping Eruption

Slightly OT: Now this is the kind of good news I like to see coming out of Iran:

Hizbullah convoy likely hit in Iran

Whether it's Mossad, CIA, or anyone else, it's good to see there is some good-guy shadowy organization busy at work out there.

68 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:57:27am

re: #65 Creeping Eruption

Maybe Mossad will pull the same stunt Shin-Bet does when it intercepts arms and ammo and fiddles with the stuff so it blows when a pali tries to use it.

Waiting until Iran has nuclear weapons would make me quite uncomfortable.
But there are a lot of ways to have "accidents". Like put a lot of uranium, but a subcritical amount on one side of a wall, just before showing the dignitaries a large amount on the other side.

69 Cygnus  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 9:59:17am

re: #56 Typicalwhitey

This is helping me to lose a few pounds.

It must be all the binging and purging that goes along with watching this stuff.

70 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 10:01:10am

re: #67 CommonCents
Well done to whoever pulled it off.

71 JAT  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 10:13:15am

We were until we weren't defense. works everytime

72 DisturbedEma  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 11:48:06am

re: #67 CommonCents

Whether it's Mossad, CIA, or anyone else, it's good to see there is some good-guy shadowy organization busy at work out there.

Spin call . . ."Work accident"

73 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 1:36:55pm
74 grumpy old codger  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 1:38:47pm

No, Abdul, it is the red wire first, then the blue! Or was it blue, then red?

75 LEGION  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 5:59:55pm

What did they know, when and where?

76 LEGION  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 6:00:36pm

They are nodding and winking so much they look like they have Tourettes Syndrome.

77 LEGION  Fri, Jul 25, 2008 6:01:51pm

re: #74 grumpy old codger

Red, No Blue- chuwange- over the bridge with the rest of the Knights getting the question wrong searching for the Holy Grail!


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

The first rodent to rise from the ether.