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Obama Released His Own Jerusalem Prayer Note?

Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:25:18 am PDT

A lot of people are upset at Israeli newspaper Maariv for violating Barack Obama’s privacy by publishing a prayer note he left at the Western Wall in Jerusalem: Maariv’s publication of Barack Obama’s Western Wall note spurs outrage, boycott.

But according to Maariv, the Obama campaign specifically approved the release of the contents of the note:

Maariv’s response: “Obama’s note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall.”

Not sure who to trust on this one, but it appears as if the Obama campaign played the Israeli media like a fiddle.

UPDATE at 7/29/08 11:00:41 am:

The Jerusalem Post reports that the Obama campaign denies approving the release of the note, but curiously won’t talk about whether it was actually written by Obama: Attorney: Probe Israeli paper for printing Obama note.

Obama’s campaign has neither confirmed nor denied whether the prayer published by Ma’ariv was in fact written by Obama. A campaign spokesman, however, made clear that the campaign hadn’t approved the publication of any kind of prayer note.

“Prayer notes at the Wall should remain private,” a campaign aide said.

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221 comments

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1 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:26:05am
2 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:27:24am

"Dear Dad...."

3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:27:39am

Used car salesman have more integrity than BarryO

4 saberry0530  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:27:39am

That is not the note that I knew.

5 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:28:15am

I have no doubt this was a set-up. What a loathsome thing to do.

6 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:28:51am

I'm still disgusted that they printed it, no matter how they got hold of it.

7 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:28:56am
"Lord - protect my family and me. Forgive my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will."

Who was he praying to?

8 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:28:58am

Of course it was a set-up. Revolting and tiresome.

9 xtraBilly  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:08am

The thought had crossed my mind but I said "Nah" he wouldn't do that. So much for my PC conscience.

10 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:10am

Only a flaming narcissist would take a private message to God and make it public information.

11 chinesearithmetic  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:32am

#2 "Dear Dad...."

Great stuff.

12 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:45am

Obama probably addressed his "prayer" to himself.

13 ContraryFarmer  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:49am

I could no more disown that note.....

Will the thrill up the leg media be hounding Obamarama for seeking the guidance of the almighty.....

14 yma o hyd  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:55am

Looks like his PR managers took note of a certain famous saying, 'if you tell a lie loud enough and often enough, people will believe it.'

Thats by the past master of propaganda, btw, a certain Joseph Goebbels. Name ring a bell?

15 jcm  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:58am
"Lord - protect my family and me. Forgive my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will,"



Done deal!

16 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:59am

re: #7 Mich-again

There's nothing wrong with the prayer, itself; it's releasing it to the press that I've got a problem with.

17 pegcity  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:29:59am

What an ass

18 NoSubmission  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:04am

yes, and a very telling prayer note it was.

19 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:16am
"Lord - protect my family and me. Forgive my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will."

Too late.

20 maddogg  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:18am

It was a fake prayer anyway. Obama was actually praying for a set of balls.

21 NoSubmission  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:43am

'guard me from pride and despair'
So much for humility audacity of hope!

22 Iron Fist  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:43am

re: #5 doppelganglander,

Loathsome people do loathsome things. I kind of suspected as much when this first came out. Like Obama was going to put something private and sacred in a note. Everything, everything the man does is focused on winning the Presidency. He's every bit as single-minded about it as Hillary was/is.

23 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:30:58am

Finding liberal media in Israel is like finding Catholics in the Vatican.

24 jcm  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:31:05am

I was laying off the prayer while I thought it had been purloined.

Since it was released, it's fair game.

25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:31:11am

Can't say I appreciate the papers reasoning on the matter much either.

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."

For some reason, that just doesnt sit well with me.

26 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:31:12am

re: #10 Sharmuta

Only a flaming narcissist would take a private message to God and make it public information.

So this came as no surprise to you then.

27 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:31:29am

re: #2 WriterMom

"Dear Dad...."

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

28 NoSubmission  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:31:38am

He should have prayed for more buses..

29 cicero05  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:01am

Obama is ten kinds of phony.

30 xtraBilly  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:03am

So which of his speech writers wrote the prayer for him? OB would be much to busy to do it himself.

31 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:14am

re: #16 Dianna

To each his own. But I can't imagine being there and saying a prayer that didn't have room for the word peace.

32 Iron Fist  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:17am

re: #2 WriterMom,

"Memo to Self:"

33 Icculus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:17am

Rush was on record yesterday saying he would not be surprised if this was leaked intentionally by the campaign. Don't doubt him!

34 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:22am

re: #12 Dirk Diggler

Obama probably addressed his "prayer" to himself.

"...So help me Me."
/'Oh, God!' - George Burns

35 rawmuse  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:27am

"Dear G-d, please make voters forget all about Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko, my middle name, my commie parents, my commie college instruction, my outspoken, racist wife, or the fact that I don't really think you exist. Your humble servant, Barry."

36 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:30am

re: #26 CyanSnowHawk

No- should it have? Seriously- what won't this man do for attention?

37 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:37am

re: #5 doppelganglander

I have no doubt this was a set-up. What a loathsome thing to do.

There is no reason to think it wasn't a set-up, after he canceled seeing our wounded troops because it wouldn't result in a photo-op.

38 NoSubmission  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:32:47am

Dear allah...

39 dr.mister  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:04am

When asked what he wrote, if Obama answered that it was a private conversation between him and God, then why is he submitting a copy of the note to the media? Is there any issue whatsoever that he doesn't flip-flop on?

40 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:13am

As I said before-there can be ZERO expectation of privacy when you are a public figure like him. You wan't to talk to G-D and pray-FINE. The minute you put it on a note-it's public, no matter if you are Jewish or not. You want it to stay private? KEEP IT IN YOUR BRAIN.

41 Hhar  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:37am

freakin' narcissist.

42 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:41am

re: #38 NoSubmission

/not worthy
/not worthy
HAHAHAHHAHAHA

43 jill e  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:41am

Nothing new here...political change? Only in the willingness to do anything and everything.

44 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:42am

"And whenever you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to stand in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!
But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you.
Matthew 6:5,6

45 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:47am

re: #39 dr.mister

When asked what he wrote, if Obama answered that it was a private conversation between him and God, then why is he submitting a copy of the note to the media? Is there any issue whatsoever that he doesn't flip-flop on?

Naybe.

46 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:55am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can't say I appreciate the papers reasoning on the matter much either.

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."

For some reason, that just doesnt sit well with me.

I take issue with him leaving a note in the first place. That would be like a Jew kneeling before a cross and praying. It is insulting in my opinion.

47 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:57am

re: #31 Mich-again

Ah...along the lines of "be careful what you ask for", do you remember what happened when Mulder asked the genie for world peace?

If the prayer was personal, those are the right things to pray for.

48 maddogg  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:01am

His spiritual adviser prayed for practical things. like "God damn America", and such...

49 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:01am

re: #20 maddogg

It was a fake prayer anyway. Obama was actually praying for a set of balls.

No way. They're solid brass to publish a prayer that would help him avoid "pride". I'm pleased that the Israeli media published this rubbish and released the fact that it was pre-approved. Hussein is a crocka.

50 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:10am

re: #10 Sharmuta

Only a flaming narcissist would take a private message to God and make it public information.

You are not the only apparently.

Patient Observer

51 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:29am

I opined days ago, I thought the idea of this was grotesque.

It was purely a photo-op, and a way to get publicity. It was to persuade the Jewish vote by putting a note in the wall.

It was to get a sympathy bump, by having it appear as if his motives were smeared by the reading of the note.

How do you rub elbows with Calypso Louie, and then appear to solemnly place a note in the wall notorious of the "gutter religion" ?

52 Cap'n DOC  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:33am
Not sure who to trust on this one, but it appears as if the Obama campaign played the Israeli media like a fiddle.

How can that be? He wasn't in Rome.

53 ErnieG  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:34:45am

I have two questions:

1. Didn't he realize that he was violating a privilege as sacred and profound as the Confessional?

2. Did he write it, or was it cooked up by whoever does his eloquent Teleprompter work?

54 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:35:01am

re: #44 IslandLibertarian

"And whenever you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to stand in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!
But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you.
Matthew 6:5,6

That's all fine, but what does the koran have to say?

55 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:35:03am

re: #39 dr.mister

When asked what he wrote, if Obama answered that it was a private conversation between him and God, then why is he submitting a copy of the note to the media? Is there any issue whatsoever that he doesn't flip-flop on?

No.

56 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:35:29am

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

But Obama is opposed to violins.

Only violins in Iraq.

57 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:35:29am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I actually don't think that is the conventional wisdom. The notes that are put into the wall are all collected, and not made public, no matter who writes them. This is Ma'ariv's opinion-I do not believe that represents the position of the people who take care of the the Kotel and the notes.

58 cicero05  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:35:40am

And people thought Bill Clinton's stunt with the rocks in the sand at Normandy was cynical.

59 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:12am

re: #50 CyanSnowHawk

You are not the only apparently.

Patient Observer

Good- I pray this trend continues.

60 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:15am

re: #7 Mich-again

Who was he praying to?

George Soros?

61 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:25am
62 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:30am

re: #59 Sharmuta

Good- I pray this trend continues.

And- I meant to make that public.

63 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:40am

I have no doubt that if the MSM does address this, that there will be lots of gushing about his warm, fuzzy feelings for oh, I don't know, his god (purposely with a lower case 'g'), family, America, fill in the blank, he is whatever you want him to be.

64 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:36:53am

re: #24 jcm

I was laying off the prayer while I thought it had been purloined.

Since it was released, it's fair game.

Interesting - I had not read the prayer (just about it) out of respect for his privacy. Now that I figure it was a plant, I now won't read it because I figure it is meaningless.

65 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:11am
"And make me an instrument of your will."

Isn't that the kind of thing the liberals ridiculed Bush for?

66 Opinionated  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:18am

I knew it wall all a stunt from the supposed content.

True- unreleased content- having nothing to lose -would have been something like this.

"Please please God, help me become President. Bind the voters to my lack of qualifications and Leftist policies, and I'll be real good to the Jews. Promise. Cross my heart ...you know what I mean."

67 alegrias  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:26am

And folks who reject Mitt Romney for any reason, bug me more than what this poseur does.

While globetrotting & shooting baskets, makes big deal about releasing prayers and being seen praying in public, but can't be bothered to comfort US TROOPS in private.

Faux piety fools fools only.

68 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:30am

re: #60 Ward Cleaver

George Soros?

Can you pray to a demon? I thought they were summoned...

69 NoSubmission  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:33am

So since leaving the church of Gdamn America, where's the O'ster praying these days?

anyone?

70 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:36am

re: #46 Ford_Prefect

Really? You were offended by him leaving a note there? I would have thought it would be more offensive that it was staged, rather than prayer at a Jewish holy place.

71 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:44am

re: #10 Sharmuta

Only a flaming narcissist would take a private message to God and make it public information.

There's that word again!

72 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:37:54am

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

What about the sax? Can't we talk about sax?

73 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:06am

re: #70 WriterMom

You nailed it.

74 yma o hyd  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:20am

re: #50 CyanSnowHawk

You are not the only apparently.

Patient Observer

Oh my - someone has had his eyes opened and is starting to use his brains instead of his emotions ...

75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:20am

re: #46 Ford_Prefect

I take issue with him leaving a note in the first place. That would be like a Jew kneeling before a cross and praying. It is insulting in my opinion.

True. In Obama's case, its obviously a media ploy. Now if someone were actually visiting the site (or any holy/religious) site and wished to have a real private moment of reverance, thats another thing.

76 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:36am
77 gonecamping  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:36am
Not sure who to trust on this one, but it appears as if the Obama campaign played the Israeli media like a fiddle.

Sounds more like he played them like an Oboe.
Or was that a H'Oboe.

I used to think no one could stoop lower than Clinton Inc, boy was I wrong!

78 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:38:54am

re: #39 dr.mister

When asked what he wrote, if Obama answered that it was a private conversation between him and God, then why is he submitting a copy of the note to the media?


Are we sure his god isn't the media?

79 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:39:42am

re: #50 CyanSnowHawk

You are not the only apparently.

Patient Observer

When I read that post:

And it all started with this little PR trip to Iraq and then Europe.

The letter from Capt. Jeff Porter, which has been publicly recanted apparently, is being refuted in the Army Times and by the AP with pictures from Kuwait being passed off as pictures from Bagram Air Base in Iraq. Which of course, leads me to suspect that there is some truth to the allegations in the letter, and that it is being handled in the clumsy and naive manner that I have come to expect from the Obama campaign.

The PR stunt at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Why, oh why, did the campaign think it was a good idea to stage an event at the holiest site in Judiasm? What kind of morons is the Senator associating with? And how on Earth did he think this was acceptable? You already have a reputation of not being friendly with Jews, and now you publicly offend many of them?

The speech in Germany. I'm sorry Barack, you are not JFK, in fact, you are beginning to look like you are not even John F'ing Kerry. I don't give a damn who Europe thinks should be President of the United States and neither should you. Your first duty is too the United States, moreso than any other citizen. We do not elect 'World Citizens' to lead us in a dangerous and uncertain world, we elect someone that we know will keep America preeminent and protect our interests. And what is with the widely fluctuating crowd estimates of this event. I have seen everything from 5,000 to 200,000, at an event where you were preceded by a free concert with cheap food and beer, and gave a speech in English to a German crowd. It looks as though everyone is assessing that this event fell completely flat, especially the Germans in the crowd that had the basic attitude of "Who the hell is that?"

Also, it is the height of hubris to take a victory lap of Europe when you are still only the presumptive nominee of the DNC.

This campaign is shaping up to be as inept as any I have ever witnessed, and frankly, if that is what you accept from those around you, then I will no longer accept you as my candidate.

You have about 100 days to convince me otherwise. If you want me back, I better see something good at the convention.

I think, how on earth did this person ever support Obama?

80 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:39:44am
81 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:39:56am

re: #65 Kenneth

Yes. But Bush is a slavering fanatic, while Obama's the messiah.

82 jcm  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:00am

re: #78 shibumi

Are we sure his god isn't the media?

He is his own God.

83 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:02am

BHO is a spayshul snowflake.

Hat tip: a Lizard whose name I cannot recall.

84 dhg4  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:24am

First of all I'll point to TNR that seems to believe Ma'ariv albeit with some hesitation. This is important because TNR supports Sen. Obama. TNR mentions that a second daily, Yedioth Ahronot, received a copy of the note and permission to publish it, prior to the candidate's visit to the Wall.

McClatchy's Jerusalem correspondent has Ma'ariv retracting its position. But he was the guy who was "kickin' it" with Samir Kuntar last week, so I don't know how reliable he is.

85 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:37am

re: #69 NoSubmission

So since leaving the church of Gdamn America, where's the O'ster praying these days?

anyone?

He joined some other church in Chicago, but I can't remember the name.

86 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:42am

re: #67 alegrias

And folks who reject Mitt Romney for any reason, bug me more than what this poseur does.

While globetrotting & shooting baskets, makes big deal about releasing prayers and being seen praying in public, but can't be bothered to comfort US TROOPS in private.

Faux piety fools fools only.

I regret I have but one ding to give.

But this is what a narcissist does- it couldn't benefit him and his campaign to see our troops, so they went under the bus. Disgusting.

87 gearhead  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:40:46am

I thought it was a little odd that the prayer ended in "I'm Barack Obama, and I approved this message. Amen."

88 Iron Fist  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:02am

re: #78 shibumi,

No they worship him. He is their god.

89 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:02am

A synopsis of the Obama campaign message:

Me, me, me, me
Me, me, me, me
Me, me, me, me
Me, me, me, me

(sung to the music of the Purina cat chow jingle)

90 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:19am

re: #54 debutaunt

That's all fine, but what does the koran have to say?

Do we really have to drag Islam into this?

ZerObama is a hypocrite, media darling, socialist poser.
He says he's a Christian. The verses from Matthew shine the light on his bullshit.

91 Barry the Baptist  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:31am

Obama is a hoax.

If it's not staged/controlled then it doesn't happen.

Also agree with jcm- he is his own god.

92 JAT  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:41am

1 - when did democrats start believing in God?
2 - I'd rather wait to find out all the facts before saying #3

93 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:41:58am

can obama go anywhere without there being some kind of brou ha ha?

94 yma o hyd  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:42:01am

re: #53 ErnieG
Looks cooked up to me - with nice expressions, one ('make me an instrument') taken from St Francis' famous prayer 'Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace ...'

Bo is a fake.

95 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:42:08am

Paper, rapped for outing Obama note, claims campaign pre-approved leak

Maariv, the second most popular newspaper in Israel, was roundly criticized for publishing the note Obama left in the Kotel. But now a Maariv spokesperson says that publication of the note was pre-approved for international publication by the Obama campaign, leading to the conclusion that the "private" prayer was intentionally leaked for public consumption.

Obama camp plasters posters at Western Wall
Advertises Democrat candidate's website, official slogan at Judaism's holiest site

Sen. Barack Obama's campaign plastered the entrance to the Western Wall – the holiest site in Judaism – with official campaign posters, WND has learned.

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld confirmed to WND posters that adorned police barricades erected at the Western Wall plaza for Obama's visit were distributed by the presidential candidate's campaign.

"These posters were his campaign and not the doing of the police," said Rosenfeld, whose police department coordinated security and provided protection for Obama's visit today to the holy site.

Asked if it was traditional practice for politicians visiting the Western Wall to bring along posters or campaign materials, Rosenfeld replied, "No."

Obama is a creepy, dishonest political opportunist with absolutely no core values and he deserves zero sympathy for his abject crassness.

Not sure who to trust on this one, but it appears as if the Obama campaign played the Israeli media like a fiddle.

/follow the preponderance of the evidence, in light of the totality of Obama's other documented campaign shenanigans

96 harrylook  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:42:29am

Well, this should be easy to sort out. All we need is a journalist with some balls and integrity to ask the One if he released it.

Oh, never mind....

97 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:42:43am

re: #53 ErnieG

I have two questions:

1. Didn't he realize that he was violating a privilege as sacred and profound as the Confessional?

2. Did he write it, or was it cooked up by whoever does his eloquent Teleprompter work?

I'm guessing his Teleprompter work is done by his speechwriter. And this as well. He is too busy to write anything himself- too big a risk of going off message.

My somewhat O/T question is... does he have someone feeding him answers in an in-ear monitor? If yes, who is telling him what to say?

98 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:43:34am

re: #65 Kenneth

"And make me an instrument of your will."

Isn't that the kind of thing the liberals ridiculed Bush for?Isn't that the kind of thing the liberals ridiculed Bush for?

Not only that - it's the prayer of someone who HAS ALREADY BEEN ELECTED! Rather presumptuous of old BO if you ask me.

MY prayer on this subject is that it be G*d's will that BO go back home to Chicago after the election and be an "instrument of His will" THERE!

99 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:43:48am

So, if Obama gave permission to the Israeli media to publish the note, how come only one did so, and why did it appear that the note came from the seminary student who grabbed the message from the Wall?

Something stinks rotten.

It's unseemly that Obama would publish the contents of a very private note between him and G-d. It's unseemly that the media would do so if they didn't have permission.

It's ego that Obama would want his note published.

100 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:43:59am

re: #82 jcm

He is his own God.

I fully concede the point!

:)

101 akak  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:00am

"Please forgive me for lying so much." -BHO

102 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:05am

re: #7 Mich-again

Who was he praying to?

Hanuman.

103 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:16am

Just released by Gallup

PRINCETON, NJ -- Barack Obama's lead over John McCain, having reached a nine percentage point margin a few days ago, has been reduced for the second Gallup report in a row, and is now at a 6-point, 47% to 41%, margin among registered voters in Gallup Poll Daily tracking conducted July 26-28.

104 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:22am

re: #50 CyanSnowHawk

You are not the only apparently.

Patient Observer

Linked in the spinoff links before it hits the memory hole.

105 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:28am

If he wouldn't visit wounded Americans without being able to use it for PR, it makes sense that he wouldn't pray unless he could publish it so everyone could see how pious he is. Bonus - when he pretends someone else released it, he gets to be the victim.

106 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:32am

I heard this yesterday while listening to Talk Radio. I am not surprised the note got out. The whole bland structure reads as if it is written for public consumption. The note was intended to be, as I see it, just as much of a media event as his going to the Wall to pray in the first place.

Obama is a consummate politician endeavoring to get as much press attention and coverage as is humanly possible. Morals and values have little to no meaning for him as he strives to achieve yet another political position.

107 astronmr20  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:40am

re: #20 maddogg

It was a fake prayer anyway. Obama was actually praying for a set of balls.

No, he was praying that his be protected from Jessee Jackson.

108 Dianna  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:43am

re: #93 Boondock St. Bender

No, because his campaign is arrogant, condescending, and thinks it's all in the bag.

109 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:47am

re: #70 WriterMom

Really? You were offended by him leaving a note there? I would have thought it would be more offensive that it was staged, rather than prayer at a Jewish holy place.

That's just it. Praying in a holy place that is not your own, so to speak, is insincere to begin with. The fact that it was staged only amplifies the insincerity.

110 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:44:50am

re: #44 IslandLibertarian

"And whenever you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to stand in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!
But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you.
Matthew 6:5,6

I love that passage. It fits Obama to a T.

111 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:45:21am

re: #93 Boondock St. Bender

can obama go anywhere without there being some kind of brou ha ha?

The men's restroom?

112 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:45:58am

"And whenever you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to stand in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!"

Matthew 6:5

113 gymnast  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:46:36am

Obama may have played the Israeli media like violins but the American media has chosen to to be played like Obamas "personal products" string section.

114 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:47:18am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can't say I appreciate the papers reasoning on the matter much either.

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."

For some reason, that just doesnt sit well with me.

Me either, Kragar. I think what Ma'ariv was trying to say but failed to explain is that there are certain aspectes of Jewish law that are technically written only to apply to Jews; however, that does not mean that the religious law states "it's okay to violate a gentile's privacy." Rather, many laws were written with an assumption that Jews would only be dealing with other Jews in a closed society. Still, I dislike the way Ma'ariv spoke on this issue, and I very much dislike the implication that it is okay to disregard the rights or privacy of non Jews.

115 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:47:30am

re: #99 lawhawk

Totally calibrated.

Even as a catholic boy, I don't have words for what I feel.

Just wrong, flat out wrong.

Nothing is sacred anymore.

116 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:47:40am

re: #95 Killian Bundy

Loathsome.

117 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:48:11am
118 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:48:29am

re: #109 Ford_Prefect

Well, personally, I think that Jerusalem is holy not just to Jews, but also to Christians...the Kotel is steps away from the Temple Mount, where Abraham walked, where the Mt. of Olives is-where King David is burried. These are our common links. I don't have any problem with Christians praying in the city so dear to G-d. Having lived in Jerusalem, I can tell you that the air is different and special and why not say a prayer where the prophets walked? Where Jesus preached...etc...

119 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:48:34am

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I thought we'd called an alto to that.

You don't like the tenor of that comment? Too bass?

120 jayzee  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:48:47am

I have been blessed to have the opportunity to place notes in Wall. His not did NOT read like a note written from the heart of a man to G-d. It seems to me, to have been written for consumption by the US electorate. That's my opinion and I am a real good judge of character. Just saying.

121 ErnieG  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:49:23am

re: #97 shibumi


My somewhat O/T question is... does he have someone feeding him answers in an in-ear monitor? If yes, who is telling him what to say?

I have wondered about that myself. I doubt that he is using an in-ear monitor. Too many gaffes for that.

But on the subject of whoever is writing the stuff for his Teleprompter: Why not find that person, nominate him (or her) and cut out the middleman?

122 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:49:24am

re: #95 Killian Bundy

Yeah, the same website with all of the anti-semitism.

123 RTLM  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:49:26am

Did Obama even write the prayer note himself?

jpost

Obama's campaign has neither confirmed nor denied whether the prayer published by Ma'ariv was in fact written by Obama. A campaign spokesman, however, made clear that the campaign hadn't approved the publication of any kind of prayer note.
124 rlevitin  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:49:31am

A commenter in the Toronto Star today indicated that Obama's plea to "Protect my family and me" indicates he fears assassination.

125 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:50:05am

re: #124 rlevitin

What a load of hooey.

126 jayzee  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:51:16am

re: #118 WriterMom

I think equally as important is the fact that non Jews are encouraged to come and pray at the Temple (provided they respect Jewish law and tradition).

127 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:51:39am

re: #46 Ford_Prefect

I take issue with him leaving a note in the first place. That would be like a Jew kneeling before a cross and praying. It is insulting in my opinion.


Not really -- there are scriptures in which God says "my house is a house of prayer for all people." I don't have a problem with non Jews praying at the Kotel. I would have a problem with them wearing a Star of David or a kippah.

128 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:51:41am

re: #118 WriterMom

So true. It is holy ground to Christians & Jews. I just wish those defiling occupiers would leave and take their hideous idolatry with them.

129 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:52:58am

re: #79 Ward Cleaver

I think, how on earth did this person ever support Obama?

I think the 'hold your nose and vote party' factor may have played a part. Much like some are doing with McCain.

130 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:53:38am

re: #123 RTLM

Did Obama even write the prayer note himself?

Wasn't it from a song by Bono?

131 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:53:48am

re: #124 rlevitin

A commenter in the Toronto Star today indicated that Obama's plea to "Protect my family and me" indicates he fears assassination.

Many, many Obama supporters are obsessed with the assassination of their leader. This is a manifestation of their Messiah worship.

Obama Assassination Obsession Disorder (OAOD)

132 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:54:08am

re: #57 WriterMom

I actually don't think that is the conventional wisdom. The notes that are put into the wall are all collected, and not made public, no matter who writes them. This is Ma'ariv's opinion-I do not believe that represents the position of the people who take care of the the Kotel and the notes.


I think Ma'ariv was referencing Jewish law and what it has to say on the matter of privacy. In effect they were weaseling out of wrongdoing by saying "We didn't violate the letter of the law . . ."

133 formercorpsman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:54:13am

re: #118 WriterMom

Exactly WriterMom.

To think of the political caravan rolling through where the prophets have walked, and his Christ had been, all for percentage points and jockeying is beyond the pale.

I don't think I ever remember a candidate doing anything like this.

134 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:54:25am

re: #118 WriterMom

Obviously you know much more about the area then I do. While I certainly agree that the place has a great deal of historical significance to both Jews and Christians, my understanding is that this particular place, and the practice of leaving prayer notes, is special to Jews. That was my point.

135 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:54:43am

re: #102 Cygnus

Hanuman.

The little mouse?

136 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:55:06am

re: #123 RTLM

From the link-just to clarify the policy on the notes:

"

Notes placed in the Wall are removed twice a year, on the eve of the Jewish New Year and Pessah, and placed in a special repository for religious items, under supervision to keep them hidden from human eyes," he said in a statement.

"Notes which are placed in the Western Wall are between the person and his Maker; Heaven forbid that one should read them or use them in any way. The custom of placing notes between the stones of the Western Wall is ancient and is used as a means of expression by a person praying to his Creator.

137 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:55:26am

re: #121 ErnieG

But on the subject of whoever is writing the stuff for his Teleprompter: Why not find that person, nominate him (or her) and cut out the middleman?

I don't know if it reminds me more of the Wizard of Oz, or Singing in the Rain, where it was really the voice of Debbie Reynolds that people loved.

138 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:55:30am

re: #135 Ward Cleaver

The little mouse?

The Hindu monkey god. He supposedly carries a little one around for luck.

139 alegrias  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:55:36am

This was also probably meant to sway evangelicals in the USA.

A PHOTO-OP.

Whereas, John McCain & Joe Lieberman prayed there as they probably do everytime they visit Israel and OUR TROOPS IN IRAQ. WITHOUT MEDIA HOOP-LA.

140 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:56:37am

re: #121 ErnieG

I have wondered about that myself. I doubt that he is using an in-ear monitor. Too many gaffes for that.

But on the subject of whoever is writing the stuff for his Teleprompter: Why not find that person, nominate him (or her) and cut out the middleman?

I don't think he's using an in ear monitor yet. Not sure he can get away with it.

As for his speech writer- probably some white eloquent ex- hippie type who doesn't have any name recognition or bring any ethnic excitement to the table. Not a good brand for the face of the Democrats. I don't buy the Obama rhetoric, but I'd probably be able to stomach the speech writer more than the actual candidate!

141 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:56:41am

re: #128 Kenneth

So true. It is holy ground to Christians & Jews. I just wish those defiling occupiers would leave and take their hideous idolatry with them.

Ugh, what an ugly picture.

142 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:57:23am

We may never know the truth on this one. If the Obama camp didn't pre-approve the release of the prayer then Maariv is fibbing to protect their reputation and circulation. But even if the Obama camp did approve, they can turn around and claim they didn't (which they will soon) since it makes the Mighty O look bad. Either way, it becomes a case of "who do you believe more?". We already know who the Western MSM would rather believe.

143 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:57:31am

re: #134 Ford_Prefect

Hi-I just posted a link about that. The Rabbi who takes care of this makes no distinction as to the person's religion. I've seen people from dozens of countries and many, many different faith traditions leave notes. It's not just a Jewish thing. It's a way of trying to connect with G-d, just one way among many, in the cradle of monotheistic civilization.

144 shibumi  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:58:13am

re: #139 alegrias

This was also probably meant to sway evangelicals in the USA.

A PHOTO-OP.

Very good point. However, by publicizing the note, I think they did indeed ruin any good feeling they may have gotten from it.

145 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:58:15am

re: #118 WriterMom

Well, personally, I think that Jerusalem is holy not just to Jews, but also to Christians...the Kotel is steps away from the Temple Mount, where Abraham walked, where the Mt. of Olives is-where King David is burried. These are our common links. I don't have any problem with Christians praying in the city so dear to G-d. Having lived in Jerusalem, I can tell you that the air is different and special and why not say a prayer where the prophets walked? Where Jesus preached...etc...

It is also holy ground for Islam. The Temple Mount has the Dome of the Rock Mosque, the rock where Mo is believed to have stood upon when he ascended into Heaven. It also, supposedly, was the rock where the Ark rested in the Holy of Holies in the First Temple.

146 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:58:23am

re: #127 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Not really -- there are scriptures in which God says "my house is a house of prayer for all people." I don't have a problem with non Jews praying at the Kotel. I would have a problem with them wearing a Star of David or a kippah.

That is fine, and I would bow to your wisdom and viewpoint on the subject. I was simply commenting from my own viewpoint.

147 RTLM  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:58:29am

Obama totally disgraced the Western Wall. What he did was a sacrilege.

148 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:58:57am

re: #142 Lizard by the Bay

What a dilemma! Who to believe, Obama or the media.

149 Dave the.....  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:59:42am

Like the Clintons, like John Kerry, everything Obama does seems to be staged. He is campaigning 100% of the time.

Well, except when he was in Philly, passed on the cheesesteak and instead ordered $100.00 a pound ham. But other then that, he seems to always be scripted.

150 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:59:57am

re: #148 Silhouette

What a dilemma! Who to believe, Obama or the media.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

151 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:00:21am
152 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:01:03am

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

It is also holy ground for Islam. The Temple Mount has the Dome of the Rock Mosque, the rock where Mo is believed to have stood upon when he ascended into Heaven.

Not exactly so.

They SAY it is holy ground for them, but when Big Mo made his night flight, the Dome of the Rock Mosque was not built or thought of yet. They tend to suddenly decide lots of places that were holy to others are holy them too and then demand that everyone has to share.

153 CommonCents  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:02:11am
Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem.

That's what I call heart felt, sincere, and most of all faithful.

"Lord if you don't hear my prayer at the wall, please read it in tomorrow's paper. Amen." --B. Hussein O.

154 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:02:26am

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

I purposesly did not include Islam in my list.

That's a whole other discussion...this ain't the right thread for it.

155 Clio  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:02:43am

The day the story first appeared, I posted a comment that the note that reads like a Sunday School exercise was very likely composed for publication. And, that if he wrote a genuine private prayer it would probably say "MAKE ME WIN".

156 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:02:46am

There is a Christian injunction to pray quietly and without show. You are supposed to be communicating with G-d, not with the general public. This stage-managed bit of narcissistic sacrilege is proof of the shallowness of Obama.

Obama just threw G-d under his bus!

157 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:02:49am
158 yma o hyd  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:03:32am

re: #143 WriterMom

Hi-I just posted a link about that. The Rabbi who takes care of this makes no distinction as to the person's religion. I've seen people from dozens of countries and many, many different faith traditions leave notes. It's not just a Jewish thing. It's a way of trying to connect with G-d, just one way among many, in the cradle of monotheistic civilization.

Absolutely.
But if BO were truly religious - wouldn't he have shuddered at making his prayer into a photo opportunity, regardless of his note being published, pre-approved or not?
That is what grates: making a show of his 'devotion', for campaign purposes.

159 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:03:47am

re: #136 WriterMom

The Kotel Rabbi was NOT pleased with the people who violated Obama's privacy by taking the prayer and publishing it, which leads me to believe that even if laws concerning privacy were specifically written to pertain to Jews, the general consensus among rabbis is that the same respect should be afforded to non Jews as well.

160 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:04:48am

re: #159 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Absolutely. What I meant in my comments is that Ma'ariv's position ('we didn't violate Jewish laws and it only applies to Jews anyway) is ridiculous-and Ma'ariv is not exactly a bastion of Jewish tradition...

161 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:07:19am

re: #146 Ford_Prefect


No problem -- I think what is bothering you is what is bothering a lot of us, that it seems his prayer effort was not really genuine, so it has a taint of disrespect for the Kotel added to it because of that. But, hey, that's between him and God. None of us really know for sure what is in Hussein's heart.

162 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:07:36am

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

It is also holy ground for Islam. The Temple Mount has the Dome of the Rock Mosque, the rock where Mo is believed to have stood upon when he ascended into Heaven. It also, supposedly, was the rock where the Ark rested in the Holy of Holies in the First Temple.

Not true at all. The description of the Night Flight in the Koran does not mention the rock or Jerusalem. It does mention "the further Mosque", which at that time would have been in Medina, not Jerusalem.
The notion that the Night Flight brought Mohammad to Jerusalem is an invention of Caliph Abd al-Malik, some 70 years after Mo's death. The Dome of the Rock is built upon an historical & theological fraud.

163 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:08:03am

re: #158 yma o hyd

That is what grates: making a show of his 'devotion', for campaign purposes.

Yes, that's exactly it.

164 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:08:33am

re: #162 Kenneth

{ken}

You history slut, you!

165 Dave the.....  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:09:24am

Remember whenever Bill Clinton would get in trouble, he'd go to church, and carry that giant oversized Bible on the side so the cameras would see it. Heh, always thought that was funny.

Hey, at least BHO's prayer didn't say "GodDAMN America"

166 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:10:01am

re: #164 WriterMom

There is an Egyptian Islamic scholar who wrote about this fraud. He is living in hiding now with death-threats on him. Go figure.

167 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:10:31am

re: #166 Kenneth

Imagine that.

168 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:12:19am

re: #164 WriterMom

{ken}

You history slut, you!

Oh, and I get no credit for posting the same thing in #152?

/fishing for compliments

169 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:12:32am

re: #167 WriterMom

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

170 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:14:09am

re: #152 Silhouette

Ok, you get an-up ding. The Dome of the Rock was all about the replacement theology. al-Malik had already converted a Christian cathedral in Damascus to a mosque.

171 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:14:23am

You know, I was thinking, what if Obama had ignored the Kotel altogether? I wouldn't have liked that either. I would be even more uncomfortable with him if he were an avowed atheist. I wish he weren't such a prancing show pony, but I really can't fault him for praying in Jerusalem. It would be weird if he planted that prayer note with every intention of its being found and published. But what if he really wanted to pray at the Kotel and in his heart, it had meaning for him? I'm not going to beat him up for that.

172 dahozho  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:15:37am

When I first saw footage of Obama's leaving his prayer at the Wall, something struck me as odd (& I haven't seen the footage since the publication of the note). He puts his hand out *twice.* I couldn't tell if the note just wasn't far enough in for him or not, or if something else was going on, but I did find it strange at the time.

Either way, it was a self-serving photo-op, done a time when his handlers thought he wouldn't have to face people with tough questions.

And did he even LOOK at the t-shirt at S'derot? Does he understand the conditions the residents endure?

173 LeatherNeckLady  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:16:28am

Just a thought.....

If you notice in the picture of Obama placing his prayer into the wall he is wearing a black bracelet on his left wrist. It appears to be a POW, missing or DOA bracelet. I do not recall him having this on before his decision to go overseas. Being left handed, one might wonder why he placed the prayer into the wall with his off hand, the right hand, not his left. Coincidence or planned? Hmmmmm

174 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:18:46am

re: #147 RTLM

Obama totally disgraced the Western Wall. What he did was a sacrilege.

The Western Wall will come thru this flap just fine.
It's Obama who has totally disgraced himself.

175 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:19:40am

re: #173 LeatherNeckLady

I cannot imagine the possibility of Obama wearing a POW bracelet. When has he ever said or done anything remotely supportive of American POW's or US troops in general? Not even on his radar.

176 CommonCents  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:20:38am

re: #171 American Jewess In Jerusalem

You know, I was thinking, what if Obama had ignored the Kotel altogether? I wouldn't have liked that either. I would be even more uncomfortable with him if he were an avowed atheist. I wish he weren't such a prancing show pony, but I really can't fault him for praying in Jerusalem. It would be weird if he planted that prayer note with every intention of its being found and published. But what if he really wanted to pray at the Kotel and in his heart, it had meaning for him? I'm not going to beat him up for that.

I don't think anyone is beating him up for praying in Jerusalem. It's that he felt he needed to send a draft of his prayer to the media that I find strange.

177 LeatherNeckLady  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:21:05am

re: #175 Kenneth My point exactly Kenneth! Makes you wonder if it was planned so he showed his "true concern and suuport" for the troops.

178 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:21:51am

re: #168 Silhouette

You history SUPER SLUT!

179 Teacake!  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:22:34am

I heard on either Hannity or some other radio show that Obama's people PLASTERED HIS POSTERS all over some area either near the wall or on a part of the wall. I recall him saying imagine is Obama posters had been plastered all over the Vatican.

Wonder if there are any pictures of this?

180 Silhouette  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:23:26am

re: #178 WriterMom

You history SUPER SLUT!

What more can a lady ask for?

181 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:23:43am

re: #179 Teacake!

Yes, there was a picture on Debbie Schleussel of some fans with posters at the Kotel.

182 LeatherNeckLady  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:24:16am

re: #179 Teacake!

I would put nothing past this guy and his cronies.

183 ballantrae  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:26:02am

Yes, prayer notes left at the wall by Non-Jews are indeed PRIVATE.

Not only that, but we Jews have a tradition that when Solomon built the temple he asked that G-d give special attention to prayers uttered by Non-Jews at the temple. This means that if you aren't Jewish, and you pray at the wall, your prayers will be more likely answered than similar prayers uttered by a Jew!

The people at Maariv are typically disgusting reporters, and I urge everyone NOT to read the note. If it was condoned by the Obama campaign, then it is worthless, and if it wasn't, then it is an atrocity to read it.

-ron

184 Teacake!  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:27:28am

Well, the entire trip was one big publicity stunt anyhow

185 Teacake!  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:29:15am

Hopefully G-d heard him and will realize how dangerous a man he is and as an instrument of His will, will render him back to community organizing.

186 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:30:19am

re: #184 Teacake!

Well, the entire trip was one big publicity stunt anyhow

The entire Obama campaign is just one cunning stunt after another.

187 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:30:33am

re: #183 ballantrae
Please do not use the word atrocity to describe reading someone elses' prayer. Low down, probably sacrilgeous but not the level of an atrocity. Thank you.

188 AZDave  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:41:07am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can't say I appreciate the papers reasoning on the matter much either.

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."

For some reason, that just doesnt sit well with me.

I alway thought everyone was Jewish; there are mainstream Jews and then there are members of the two major cults of Judaism: Christianity and Islam.

189 RTLM  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:43:56am

EARTHQUAKE! OC, CA

190 itellu3times  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:45:26am

shakin' all over!

5.x southeast of chino hills?

pretty strong in Santa Monica!

191 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:45:30am

re: #152 Silhouette

Not exactly so.

They SAY it is holy ground for them, but when Big Mo made his night flight, the Dome of the Rock Mosque was not built or thought of yet. They tend to suddenly decide lots of places that were holy to others are holy them too and then demand that everyone has to share.

The mosque was built on the supposed rock after the trip, on ground that Muslims believe was MADE holy because of the event. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

192 AZDave  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:47:12am

re: #30 xtraBilly

So which of his speech writers wrote the prayer for him? OB would be much to busy to do it himself.

Ya, too busy admiring himself.

193 marjoriemoon  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:49:46am

re: #183 ballantrae

Yes, prayer notes left at the wall by Non-Jews are indeed PRIVATE.

Not only that, but we Jews have a tradition that when Solomon built the temple he asked that G-d give special attention to prayers uttered by Non-Jews at the temple. This means that if you aren't Jewish, and you pray at the wall, your prayers will be more likely answered than similar prayers uttered by a Jew!

The people at Maariv are typically disgusting reporters, and I urge everyone NOT to read the note. If it was condoned by the Obama campaign, then it is worthless, and if it wasn't, then it is an atrocity to read it.

-ron

Well I did read it because it was in the article and I'm ashamed I did.

There is no evidence, other than the word of the paper, that Obama's camp did this. But who needs evidence when conjecture will do, eh? And if you read the prayer, you'll see that there is no reason for Obama's camp to do such a ridiculous thing anyway.

But even if they DID, why did the newspaper print it? They knew the laws about that. Non-Jewish prayers don't matter? What kind of moron is this guy anyway?

194 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:54:19am

A tiny bit O/T, but last night I happened to notice a book at Barnes and Noble, "Obama: From Promise To Power" by David Mendell, a "journalist".

The quote on the front of the book (at least the version I saw - just found it on the B&N website to confirm) says, "A companion to the two volumes Obama wrote himself...for readers who really want to get to know their president." It is attributed to the Chicago Tribune.

Their president?

This is getting way, way past annoying.

195 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:54:34am

re: #161 American Jewess In Jerusalem

For now, I am choosing to believe that Obama or his staff did approve the publication. Why wouldn't he? To do something nice in secret is not his style at all, publicity is. The idea that he would deny it several days after the story got out and he is made to look silly makes perfect sense given his record thus far.

196 Teacake!  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:55:36am

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

just in case this link hasn't already been posted.

197 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:56:27am

re: #193 marjoriemoon

I am not the slightest bit ashamed about reading this information. I see no reason to beat myself up over reading a calculated statement by a calculated man.

198 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 11:57:50am

re: #196 Teacake!

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

just in case this link hasn't already been posted.

I bet he is trying to "shame" the Israelis for not fawning all over him at the Wall.

199 marjoriemoon  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 12:02:44pm

re: #197 SpartanWoman

I am not the slightest bit ashamed about reading this information. I see no reason to beat myself up over reading a calculated statement by a calculated man.

The fact is, it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do, he is blamed for it all anyway because you've already pegged him as the devil.

But when the Left pegs Bush as the devil, they're demented, "BDS", right? But you're not demented.

Ok, just making some notes here.

What frightens me most about these comments is that people like you are sitting on juries in this country.

200 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 12:03:35pm
201 Teacake!  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 12:09:34pm

[Link: www.wnd.com...]
campaign posters near the wall

202 J.S.  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 12:43:33pm

And Obama is the great uniter...as I scoff derisively...everywhere the Obamanation goes, dissension and discord follow.

203 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 12:46:40pm

re: #199 marjoriemoon

The fact is, it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do, he is blamed for it all anyway because you've already pegged him as the devil.

But when the Left pegs Bush as the devil, they're demented, "BDS", right? But you're not demented.

Ok, just making some notes here.

What frightens me most about these comments is that people like you are sitting on juries in this country.

No Hon, I've pegged him as a calculating media whore. And I don't give a damn what you think of me, btw.

204 quickjustice  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 1:28:24pm

Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism. Walking around the site still is forbidden, because someone might unsuspectingly wander over the Holy of Holies (debir), the inner sanctum where the Ark of the Covenant was kept and the site of "the even shetiyya (foundation stone)-- the point at which the creation of the world began", or over the site of the altar. Such desecration could invoke the wrath of G-d.

Dore Gold has written about this in "The Fight For Jerusalem" at p.37, an excellent history of Jerusalem and the Jewish claim to the city.

Obama is playing political games with sacred symbols. In this case, he's messing with the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In some respects, this is far worse than creationism.

205 jcbunga  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 1:55:32pm

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall.”

Moreover, since he's a Marxist no account with big ears and won't face the camera...he's not presidential material.

206 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 1:59:34pm

This whole episode is a series of wrong actions.

First wrong: I get very queasy when a politician (any politician) makes a public display of pseudo piety at the holiest site in my faith, and a nexus of my heritage. The place has great sanctity. It means something to me. It is the sort of place that if you take seriously, you need to work up the courage to go and pray at. I have no problem with anyone going there to pray - provided they are actually praying. Using a place sacred to me as your political show offends me deeply. If you actually respected the place, you would not do that.

Second Wrong: Pretty much any Jew with any sense whatsoever would get the idea that you should not even think of disturbing someone else's note. If you take the place seriously at all, if you respect the meaning of the place at all, you know you don't remove someone's note. For a yeshiva student no less to do this is deeply disturbing.

Third wrong: You don't print the note that was fished out. Media whores are just that, but still, to pat yourself on the back for casual betrayal of one's own culture is repugnant. It would be like a Catholic paper patting itself on the back for printing the transcript of a confession. Even if you don't believe in your own faith, you should still respect some sanctity.

Fourth wrong: Being cranky enough about the first wrong to forgive the other two.

The common thread of all of these wrongs is lack of proper respect.

207 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:06:08pm

I also want to comment on the terrible line:

"Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall.”

It saddens me immensely that some of my people would reason this way and forget all of the Torah that exists with regard to protecting the rights of non-Jews.

Anyone who reasons this way is letting anger willfully blind themselves to the Law they think they are representing.

208 code red 21  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:13:05pm

If I were picking sides in who to believe in this situation, knowing what a media whore we have running for POTUS/king of the world, I'd go with the newspaper's version. But that's just me.

209 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:15:27pm
210 twincitiesgirl  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:29:54pm

"This sacrilegious action deserves sharp condemnation and represents a desecration of the holy site."

/amen

211 J.S.  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:33:15pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, ok. A series of wrong actions. Sure. On the first point -- why, why would you expect an Obama to respect this site? Why? (look, he doesn't give a good --- fill in the blank with an obscenity -- about it. He does not care. One more time -- it is meaningless to him...in terms of a "holy" site. -- The only "meaning" is for political gain. If he stands to gain something from looking "pious" -- for all the U.S. Jewish votes back home -- he'll do it. Yeah, he wins some votes. Big wow. Second point -- about that seminary student who pulls the stunt. Sure, "it's wrong." naughty, naughty. Yeah. But I suspect that one of the reasons behind this -- it's to find out who the h-lll this Obama really is...In typical (at least for our age) style for politicians -- Obama remains a total enigma -- and it's because nobody -- nobody -- can figure out what motivates him -- what are his "values" (if any?) -- he's a huge mystique...and people will wanna dig to try to find out as much as possible about him...including engaging in little piccadillos. And on the third point -- this is not a "confession" -- what it turned out to be was a canned, contrived, boiler-plate political statement to make Obama look good...(he probably had advisors write it up for him)...and Obama hoped -- prayed -- that somebody would get a hold of it and read it (since it wouldn't reveal anything about him of substance anyway -- other than that he's a politically correct politician who knows how to play with the media...and now he's "da victim...") The whole thing's disgusting...

212 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 2:53:56pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Do people think that there are 60 years of notes all left undisturbed in the Wall? If the Israeli paper is guilty of anything it is guilty of falling for an Obama trick and publishing the note. Now he can get his "high minded" note published and say "bad Jews violated my privacy" by denying the agreement to publish....which I believe exists.

This is a total Obama win. If the intentions were honorable he would not have appeared with signage and cameras. And if it said "let me kick McCain's ass and install socialism in the USA" then it would have been authentic. The disciple of Jerry Wright is not really worried about being an instrument of anything but George Soros...to him he can pray by phone.

213 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 3:26:52pm

re: #212 SpartanWoman

Do people think that there are 60 years of notes all left undisturbed in the Wall? If the Israeli paper is guilty of anything it is guilty of falling for an Obama trick and publishing the note. Now he can get his "high minded" note published and say "bad Jews violated my privacy" by denying the agreement to publish....which I believe exists.

This is a total Obama win. If the intentions were honorable he would not have appeared with signage and cameras. And if it said "let me kick McCain's ass and install socialism in the USA" then it would have been authentic. The disciple of Jerry Wright is not really worried about being an instrument of anything but George Soros...to him he can pray by phone.


No I think that the staff of the Chief Kotel Rabbi has the notes removes and locked away at high holidays every year. But you are right that it has spun in dozens of horrible directions.

214 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 3:29:29pm

re: #209 buzzsawmonkey

Ludwig, saw your response to me on last night's thread.

While I am well aware of the difference between Torah min hashamayim and rabbinical interpretation, I was trying to make the point that certain rabbinical interpretations go so far back--to the earliest portions of the Mishna--as to be indistinguishable from the Torah itself.

For example, there is no rabbinical discussion of the "price of a dog" passage in Deuteronomy that I am aware of that does not refer to it as a literal "price of a dog"--hence, regardless of what the meaning of the passage would seem to be, there is little ground within the tradition to argue with the interpretation that goes back as far as we have written records.

By the same token, one can look at the "Ordeal of Jealousy" in Parshat Nasso and see that the plain meaning of the text (bolstered, I may say, by the Haftorah for that parsha) suggests very, very strongly that the description of the Ordeal refers to the administration, by the Kohanim, of an abortifacient which, if it was not effective, would furnish divine proof of paternity in the face of a husband's suspicions. But Tractate Sotah, which discusses the Ordeal, discusses it in very different terms.


Don't get me wrong Buzzsaw, it is obvious you have some real learning. That is why I am seriously interested in your comment. I am curious from where you learn it.

215 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 3:31:42pm

re: #211 J.S.

Yeah, ok. A series of wrong actions. Sure. On the first point -- why, why would you expect an Obama to respect this site? Why? (look, he doesn't give a good --- fill in the blank with an obscenity -- about it. He does not care. One more time -- it is meaningless to him...in terms of a "holy" site. -- The only "meaning" is for political gain. If he stands to gain something from looking "pious" -- for all the U.S. Jewish votes back home -- he'll do it. Yeah, he wins some votes. Big wow. Second point -- about that seminary student who pulls the stunt. Sure, "it's wrong." naughty, naughty. Yeah. But I suspect that one of the reasons behind this -- it's to find out who the h-lll this Obama really is...In typical (at least for our age) style for politicians -- Obama remains a total enigma -- and it's because nobody -- nobody -- can figure out what motivates him -- what are his "values" (if any?) -- he's a huge mystique...and people will wanna dig to try to find out as much as possible about him...including engaging in little piccadillos. And on the third point -- this is not a "confession" -- what it turned out to be was a canned, contrived, boiler-plate political statement to make Obama look good...(he probably had advisors write it up for him)...and Obama hoped -- prayed -- that somebody would get a hold of it and read it (since it wouldn't reveal anything about him of substance anyway -- other than that he's a politically correct politician who knows how to play with the media...and now he's "da victim...") The whole thing's disgusting...

Everything you say is true. Everything there, everything is a way to not respect the sanctity of the place.

216 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 3:44:44pm

In case anyone is curious, this is a very well researched animation of what the place, the Second Temple, looked like before it was sacked by Romans and then had a mosque put on top of the mount.

This may sound goofy to you, but the animation made me cry the first time I saw it. The place means something.

If more Jews understood it, even as well as I hope the average American understands the Liberty Bell, there would be a much different reality in the Middle East. None would cringe and apologise for loving our own birthright. None would fear the opinion of Europe. None would let our holy sites, like Joseph's tomb, be desecrated by the Arabs. There would be no self hating idiots. There would be no Noam Chomsky. There would be no traitors working for our enemies. No politician would be allowed a press conference or any use of the place other than a private one to talk to his Maker.

But most importantly, we would never ever, apologise for who we are to anyone.

So much has been lost. So much must be rebuilt.

217 gatorbait  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 4:54:17pm

Why would he need to pray to a higher power? He thinks he is the higher power.

218 The Dajjal  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 5:24:46pm

I have it on a good source that Obama's note read:

"Please God, make me President-for-Life... and please make Hillary disappear too if you can fit it into your busy schedule. Thanks!"

219 J.S.  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 7:25:42pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of Youtube....one of my favorites...

220 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 7:31:18pm

re: #219 J.S.

Speaking of Youtube....one of my favorites...

Thanks for the link. Am Y'Israel Chai

221 zuukie  Tue, Jul 29, 2008 10:33:32pm

How did the student get close enough to see exactly where Obama placed the prayer? It seems to me that security would not have let anyone get that close to Obama. As someone else wrote, if the individual thought it was somewhere in the vicinity of Obama's hand, wouldn't it have been strange to see someone pulling prayers out and checking to see what was written on them? Wouldn't that student have been stopped?


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