Lee Harvey Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan had no comment!

Unfortunate- the victims of this crime deserve justice.

Either this indicates guilt or a terminal illness.

He was the prime suspect for a looooong time.

Bruce E. Ivins had also received a major commendation for his work to solve a key issue in anthrax vaccine production in 2003.

I hope that investigators can actually discover who was behind this, instead of suspecting that Ivins was their man. After all, they hounded Hatfill. Perhaps Ivins left notes or something along those lines incriminating him.

Then again, what to make of the possible connections to the 9/11 hijackers in FL? I frankly just don't know.

The Koskidz will make up conspiracy theories about this one.

Bush and Cheney cleaning house before the transition.

Has Hatfill had any comment yet?

re: #2 Sharmuta

Unfortunate- the victims of this crime deserve justice.

Given the FBI's track record on this, I would hold off assuming the guy was guilty.

re: #3 The Other Les

Either this indicates guilt or a terminal illness.

Or the government drove him to the brink. Governmental prosecutions have been known in the past to be a tad heavy handed. He may be guilty. My hunch is it would have been very hard to prove.

re: #7 Ben Hur

I truly hope that was sarcasm...

re: #5 lawhawk

Then again, what to make of the possible connections to the 9/11 hijackers in FL? I frankly just don't know.

I think it was just convenient timing for him. He knew that there would be a lot of money poured into national security after 9-11 and seized the opportunity to get some of the funding.

re: #6 Killgore Trout

The Koskidz will make up conspiracy theories about this one.

ben has already determined it was bush and cheney. Personally, I blame rove.

re: #6 Killgore Trout

What don't they make up conspiracy theories about? No matter what happens, Bush, Halliburton, and Mossad were involved.

The truth is out there!

You can indict a ham sandwich. This is pretty damn far from an admission of guilt.

re: #9 Big Steve

Given the FBI's track record on this, I would hold off assuming the guy was guilty.

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

re: #14 Iron Fist

What don't they make up conspiracy theories about? No matter what happens, Bush, Halliburton, and Mossad were involved.

The truth is out there!

You are forgetting the CIA, mafia, and Cuban refugees as well.

re: #6 Killgore Trout

The Koskidz will make up conspiracy theories about this one.

I'm breathlessly awaiting their analysis connecting him to the Bush "regime".

re: #11 rawmuse
Ben's been sarcastic about Bush all morning, so I suspect it was indeed sarcastic.
But I would like to hear that from Ben.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

I am sure this investigation was driving him and his family to the brink of bankruptcy.

Will we ever know why he was the ''prime suspect?"
After Hatfield was eliminated, that is.
I wonder what his hand-printing looked like.

I'm curious about the motive, was the timing with 9/11 a coincidence and where there others involved.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

Because overzealous investigators destroyed his reputation?

re: #16 Sharmuta
Well he could have been innocent and mentally ill, ya know?
And I agree with whomever it was upthread that the FBI's track record in this is less than exemplory.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

If he devoted his life to something, was wrongly accused and shut out of his work, publicly humiliated, and prone to depression, it's unfortunately a pretty easy next step. (Just making assumptions based on the linked article.)

re: #14 Iron Fist

What don't they make up conspiracy theories about? No matter what happens, Bush, Halliburton, and Mossad were involved.

The truth is out there!

Now where in history has anyone overdosed on tylenol 3 (or 4 or any codiene.)

re: #5 lawhawk

I hope that investigators can actually discover who was behind this, instead of suspecting that Ivins was their man. After all, they hounded Hatfill. Perhaps Ivins left notes or something along those lines incriminating him.

The lawyer's note suggests that a trial was upcoming. But my question is this: did he have anything to do with Hatfill. Did they work in the same department? Is that what led the Feds to Hatfill in the first place?

re: #16 Sharmuta

Because some people who are hounded by the military, FBI and law enforcement might have mental health issues, previously latent, and come out. Or, he was depressed because he was watching his life's work come undone by continued investigations.

I'm just looking to find harder evidence than simply because he committed suicide.

Lord Vader was feelin' the heat.

Cutting loose ends.

Here's a conspiracy theory to throw on the pile-
What if he and Hatfill were set up by another scientist working there?

re: #23 Why would an innocent man kill himself?

Because overzealous investigators destroyed his reputation?
Spiny Norman

Isn't that similar to what happened in the UK a few years back?
Some poor guy was implicated in the press for something he didn't do....a scientist, IIRC, and he killed himself way before his tie-in was debunked.
He would have been cleared but he couldn't take the pressure.

re: #27 dhg4

I think both worked at Fort Detrick, and there were a limited number of scientists with access to the anthrax stocks. So, there was a limited pool of persons of interest.

Another casualty of the Chimpy McHitlerburton regime of terror.

So are both Clintons accounted for on Tuesday night?

re: #29 Ben Hur

Lord Vader was feelin' the heat.

Cutting loose ends.

Are you giving a DKos play-by-play, or just imagining a a probable one?

;^)

re: #27 dhg4

The lawyer's note suggests that a trial was upcoming. But my question is this: did he have anything to do with Hatfill. Did they work in the same department? Is that what led the Feds to Hatfill in the first place?

There were only a few guys who worked on and with this type of weapons grade Antrax and all roads always lead to Ft. Detrick. They knew each other.

Any sign of a note?

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

If he did indeed die of an overdose, it may have been an accident. I had a neighbor whom every time one of her boyfriends dumped her would 'attempt' suicide. Of course she would tell her children that "mommy was going to bed and go to sleep and would not be waking up ever again" before she would take the bottle and pills into the bedroom.

re: #31 mean Gene

Because overzealous investigators destroyed his reputation?

Isn't that similar to what happened in the UK a few years back?
Some poor guy was implicated in the press for something he didn't do....a scientist, IIRC, and he killed himself way before his tie-in was debunked.
He would have been cleared but he couldn't take the pressure.

That's what I was thinking of. Does anyone remember the guy's name?

re: #36 Nevergiveup

Which is one of the reasons that it is surprising that the case has taken this long. There's only a handful of people it could possibly be based on the weapon that was used. The FBI can't even play Clue™ it would appear.

Guilty or innocent, we will now never know for sure about Dr. Ivins. What will happen is now the media will be able to make up any scenario/theory/conspiracy they want and have it believed by a good majority of the ADD populace until the next shiny object story comes along.

re: #39 Spiny Norman

That's what I was thinking of. Does anyone remember the guy's name?

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

re: #38 Eowyn2

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

If he did indeed die of an overdose, it may have been an accident. I had a neighbor whom every time one of her boyfriends dumped her would 'attempt' suicide. Of course she would tell her children that "mommy was going to bed and go to sleep and would not be waking up ever again" before she would take the bottle and pills into the bedroom.

Not a chance. The guy was a scientist and used to doing incredibly precise work with dangerous materials. He had no accident. He did precisely what he intended to do. Sloppy emotional people have "accidents".

re: #40 Iron Fist

Which is one of the reasons that it is surprising that the case has taken this long. There's only a handful of people it could possibly be based on the weapon that was used. The FBI can't even play Clue™ it would appear.

Yes. It should make for a good book one day.

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Bird or something like that

I wish we'd know if he really did it or not...

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Jewell.
.

Innocent people do whatever it takes to clear their names. This was the act of a man with nowhere left to run.

re: #45 Nevergiveup

Richard Jewell.

re: #9 Big Steve

Given the FBI's track record on this, I would hold off assuming the guy was guilty.

For that reason, I would actually assume the opposite.

Given their track record to date here, and particularly given the lateness of the case (and lack of current public attention), the FBI would probably be damn sure they had the good son this guy before making any noises about it. There would be no reason at this point to issue an indictment unless they believed had a strong case.

Incidentally, I believe Hatfill was scapegoated, in no small part because given pressures at the time, the FBI had to have *someone* to point at.

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Jewell.

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Jewell*, I believe it was...

*AKA "The Unabubba"

Cheney and Rove are working on a suicide note to tie up all the loose ends.
/channeling Kos

BTW, My money is on no note.

re: #47 JammieWearingFool

Beat me by 19 seconds. Damn ye!

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Jewel.

So Batman got cheated out of getting a crack at the mad scientist?

/

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

Being Devils advocate, because he was already depressed (for any one of a number of other reasons).

The fact that the gov't was about to come in and publically humiliate him, destroy his reputation *and* his life savings with an indictment wouldn't have helped.

My previous coverage of the anthrax attacks, including the dismissal of charges against Hatfill here.

I win the Richard Jewell sweepstakes!

re: #56 RickZ

Richard Jewel.

He passed away in the last year or so.

After the government's settlement with Hatfill was announced in late June, Ivins started showing signs of strain, the Times said. It quoted a longtime colleague as saying Ivins was being treated for depression and indicated to a therapist that he was considering suicide. Family members and local police escorted Ivins away from the Army lab, and his access to sensitive areas was curtailed, the colleague told the newspaper. He said Ivins was facing a forced retirement in September.

Interesting.

In the six months following the anthrax mailings, Ivins conducted unauthorized testing for anthrax spores outside containment areas at USAMRIID and found some, according to an internal report by the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, which oversees the lab.

In December 2001, after conducting tests triggered by a technician's fears that she had been exposed, Ivins found evidence of anthrax and decontaminated the woman's desk, computer, keypad and monitor, but didn't notify his superiors, the Times reported. The report says Ivins performed more unauthorized sampling on April 15, 2002.

And this is interesting too. Why would he be conducting unauthorized tests? And why didn't he report the finds from this woman's desk?

I don't know if this man is guilty or not, but I do find this all highly suspect. Nor does it change my opinion that the victims of this crime deserve justice.

re: #60 JammieWearingFool

I win the Richard Jewell sweepstakes!

Congratulations! Which crime would you like to be wrongly accused of?

re: #60 JammieWearingFool

I win the Richard Jewell sweepstakes!

And with your win comes a free years supply of Family Jewells.

the evil Bush family strikes again!

/moonbat

re: #49 lawhawk

Richard Jewell.

I got the first name right?

re: #58 looking closely

Being Devils advocate, because he was already depressed (for any one of a number of other reasons).

The fact that the gov't was about to come in and publically humiliate him, destroy his reputation *and* his life savings with an indictment wouldn't have helped.

I'm hoping that the investigation will continue, so that he can either be in a sense "convicted" (since they really can't prosecute a dead man), or his name can be cleared. Some closure is needed.

re: #66 Nevergiveup

I got the first name right?

But that doesn't really work.

re: #66 NevergiveupThat gets nada...
And a strip search from the TSA:-)

re: #66 Nevergiveup

I got the first name right?

DING! DING! DING! you did.

re: #68 The Other Les

But that doesn't really work.

Story of my life?

re: #20 Nevergiveup

And the pressure and the despair on top of paying a year's worth of attorney fees, with no end sight?

He's ruined, anyway.

re: #45 Nevergiveup

Richard Jewell was the guy in the Olympics bombing. Accused, but innocent, that is.

Jewell suffered from diabetes, severe heart disease and kidney disease, which contributed to his death on August 29, 2007 from natural causes, aged 44.

Sorry, but I think Mr. Jewell would have passed away even if he'd never been accused of the Atlanta bombing.

re: #67 Ward Cleaver

I'm hoping that the investigation will continue, so that he can either be in a sense "convicted" (since they really can't prosecute a dead man), or his name can be cleared. Some closure is needed.

The investigation will be dropped like a hot rock.

re: #62 Sharmuta

Yes, those parts of the article jumped out of me but I was wondering if he was anxious because he was worried about being exposed to it because he suspected someone else from the lab was messing around with it.

The fact that family members helped the police escort him out is also a big mental health red flag. Usually, they don't have family members there if it's just a security concern. In fact, the last thing they want is irate family there to raise a ruckus.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

Hounded by overzealous prosecutors. It's not entirely unheard of. Paul Pfingst here in San Diego killed his career as the District Attorney by doing that.

OTOH, I think he is the likely culprit and I hope he left behind a confession after his self imposed punishment.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

Playing devil's advocate, possibly out of an (irrational) sense of shame over the accusation. It's quite a stretch, but it's possible.

If the anthrax attacks do turn out to be from an internal source like Ivins, the implications are actually much less scary than the alternative -- that high-tech weaponized anthrax is in the hands of terror groups. The fact that there have been no more attacks seems to back up the former possibility.

re: #75 maddogg

The investigation will be dropped like a hot rock.

I'm afraid you're right; to avoid the embarrassment to the Army and the DoD.

re: #42 livefreeor die

I was also trying to remember the name of the security guard who was originally a suspect for 1996 Olympic bombing. I don't think he committed suicide but it ruined his life and he died very young.

Richard Jewell
which proves the point that no good deed goes unpunished..

As much as I want to believe that this case has been closed, the government doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in their ability to investigate. It's not just their mistakes in the handling of this case. They screwed up the Jewell case, and most recently, the government's screw ups with the salmonella outbreaks.

re: #62 Sharmuta

It's all interesting.

The problem is, I think like a novelist, and I can come up with several different scenarios for why he did any of these things. In some, he's guilty; in others, he's innocent.

We don't have enough information.

re: #74 Sharmuta

Sorry, but I think Mr. Jewell would have passed away even if he'd never been accused of the Atlanta bombing.

The false accusation would have definitely upped the stress level and accelerated the effect of diabetes and heart disease.

re: #63 livefreeor die

Congratulations! Which crime would you like to be wrongly accused of?

Being a nice guy.

/

We seem to have a lot of law enforcement types here in the DC metro area who seem to be under pressure to get somebody for something. They seem to miss a lot of real criminals though. And do not get me started on the incompetence of Homeland Security- the incompetence I have come across in dealing with some of their staff(not TSA screeners- that's a whole different problem) in my own work is scary. It has to make me wonder about whom else they hired in their rush to staff up.

The uni-bomber ceased attacks for 6 years.

re: #84 The Other Les

The false accusation would have definitely upped the stress level and accelerated the effect of diabetes and heart disease.

Definitely. The research is pretty clear that continued, major stress takes a toll on your immune system and also can make people less likely to follow the medical regimen they should be maintaining to control their symptoms.

re: #75 maddogg

The investigation will be dropped like a hot rock.

If that's the case, then I stand by my #2 comment. The victims and their family members deserve justice- they deserve to hear the evidence and have a jury come to a conclusion.

It was Dr David Kelly in the UK in 2003.
He supposedly killed himself by slashing hyis wrists with a pen knife.
He had been a UN weapons' inspector.
The pen knife was free of fingerprints, leading some to think he was murdered.
Later he was cleared of "sexing up" a dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

He is their Vince Foster.

Otherwise:
Sister shot in 'honour' killing

A 26-YEAR-old Jordanian man was charged with murder today after his 23-year-old sister was shot dead in an apparent "honour" killing.

The unnamed suspect allegedly shot his sister six times last night in the Nqeira area south of the capital Amman, a security official said.

"He turned himself in and confessed to murdering his sister to cleanse his family's honour because she disappeared from home for four months with a man," the official said.

Maybe the West should reconsider their immigration policies.

Maybe the Kennedy brothers 40 quota should come to an end.

re: #79 Charles

If the anthrax attacks do turn out to be from an internal source like Ivins, the implications are actually much less scary than the alternative -- that high-tech weaponized anthrax is in the hands of terror groups. The fact that there have been no more attacks seems to back up the former possibility.

I agree; it could have been an honest screw-up, or "free-lance" research work by Ivins (not a good idea). Of course this doesn't help the victims or their families. If it was Ivins' fault, they deserve some compensation from the government.

re: #85 JammieWearingFool

Being a nice guy.

/

Hey, the Giants won the Super Bowl. What more of a reward can you want? :)

re: #85 JammieWearingFool

Being a nice guy.

/

might as well shoot for the moon..
/hahaha just teasing ya dude

re: #62 Sharmuta

And this is interesting too. Why would he be conducting unauthorized tests? And why didn't he report the finds from this woman's desk?.

Speculating, he may have known who the guilty party was (or suspected it), but didn't want to expose them, since they were a personal friend or long-time colleague.

Also, after seeing what happened to Hatfill, he may simply have stopped wanting to cooperate with the FBI or the gov't, whom he might legitimately have believed not to be acting entirely out of competence or good faith in the ongoing investigation.

re: #79 Charles

If the anthrax attacks do turn out to be from an internal source like Ivins, the implications are actually much less scary than the alternative -- that high-tech weaponized anthrax is in the hands of terror groups. The fact that there have been no more attacks seems to back up the former possibility.

That makes me suspicious of the timing and thrust of the FBI probe. Is it misdirection, or methodicalness?

Now this will be decided in the Court of Public Opinion with the MSM acting as judge, jury, prosecution, and defense.

re: #93 livefreeor die

Hey, the Giants won the Super Bowl. What more of a reward can you want? :)

Plus, he doesn't have to listen to Jeremy Shockey's whining anymore.

It was the Joos.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

This will have to be a drive-by post, but in answer to your question a LOT of very unsavory things can come out of an investigation. A person can be totally uninvolved in the subject crime but wiretaps, mail coverage, and especially computer forensics and network monitoring can reveal things that can range from extremely embarassing to crimminal and can lead a subject to the point of suicide.

It has happened many times.

re: #93 livefreeor die

Hey, the Giants won the Super Bowl. What more of a reward can you want? :)

A few more Super Bowl rings.

Three just isn't enough.

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

According to the LA Times piece referenced by Rick Moran ([Link: rightwingnuthouse.com...] he was under treatment for depression, and had mentioned suicide to his therapist. He was also out of money for legal assistance. And, he was released from a sojourn in the psych ward (for depression) on July 24th.

re: #89 Sharmuta

If that's the case, then I stand by my #2 comment. The victims and their family members deserve justice- they deserve to hear the evidence and have a jury come to a conclusion.

I don't have any problem with your comment. Those people do deserve justice. My problem is with the assumption of guilt. It takes 12 jurors to make a conviction, and there has been no trial. So I prefer not to drag this man's name through the slime on an assumption alone.

re: #95 looking closely

Speculating, he may have known who the guilty party was (or suspected it), but didn't want to expose them, since they were a personal friend or long-time colleague.

Also, after seeing what happened to Hatfill, he may simply have stopped wanting to cooperate with the FBI or the gov't, whom he might legitimately have believed not to be acting entirely out of competence or good faith in the ongoing investigation.

Then that would make him an accessory to cover for the perpetrator.

re: #67 Ward Cleaver

I'm hoping that the investigation will continue, so that he can either be in a sense "convicted" (since they really can't prosecute a dead man), or his name can be cleared. Some closure is needed.

If the Feds were ready for an indictment, then their investigation was already likely closed. With the death of the prime suspect, the case will probably be closed.

So I doubt there will be formal closure here. There will only be lots of speculation (conspiracy theories) until the FBI records on the case are fully made public, and that may not happen for quite a while (if ever).

re: #16 Sharmuta

Because he correctly suspected that he was the designated fall guy after the Feds' Hatfill embarrassment and that they wouldn't hesitate to bury him and declare the case solved. I don't buy the theory that he wanted a slice of post 9/11 funding and decided the best way would be off a few people with his favorite bacillus. It doesn't track. Guilty or not, I believe the Feds have found a convenient scapegoat. We'll see what happens to the case.

Gallatin

They should publicly air the evidence, pro and con. That's the best we can do.

re: #97 Ward Cleaver

Plus, he doesn't have to listen to Jeremy Shockey's whining anymore.

My husband and I have life time and current overrated-players-not-worth-the-hassle team. Shockey and T.O. are the current receivers.

Living in the Philly area (but not an Eagles fan), we see enough local sports coverage so that McNabb increases his likelihood of making the team every year.

re: #100 JammieWearingFool

A few more Super Bowl rings.

Three just isn't enough.

Just as long as Manning is the QB.. you can have as many SB rings as you want.. every other year.
/peyton needs more too

re: #74 Sharmuta

Sorry, but I think Mr. Jewell would have passed away even if he'd never been accused of the Atlanta bombing.

C'mon, we'll all pass away some day. But if Jewell had heart disease, the stress of defending himself against false accusations can be literally a killer.

/Unfortunately, someone who knows heart disease.

I believe the balance is shifted more towards guilt than innocence in this suicide. Could be wrong - look at Richard Jewel. Mr. Jewel I am sure went through depression and suicidal thoughts when it seemed everyone thought he had planted the Olympic Bomb in Atlanta so he could make himself a hero. It took him a long time to clear his name.

This guy could have just been sloppy in his research and got the contamination on his associates desk, conducted improper experiments, etc. But I still think this points more toward his guilt.

I am sooo glad that Hatfill got some money. Shoulda been twice what he got, beause five million probably barely covers his legal fees.

re: #103 Sharmuta

Then that would make him an accessory to cover for the perpetrator.

Perhaps.

But (and I again emphasize that this is speculative) knowing who it was and not reporting them is still quite a different thing than planning and/or perpetrating the attacks.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

sorry got called away.....read all the responses. Do recall that one of the three suspected Duke lacrosse "rapists" also had to be watched by his family for showing suicide warning signs. And we all know how that turned out vis-a-vie their "guilt". Admitedly a suspect committing suicide is a reasonable indicator or guilt but not foolproof.

re: #111 tradewind

I am sooo glad that Hatfill got some money. Shoulda been twice what he got, beause five million probably barely covers his legal fees.

He should get a good book deal out of it-that might get him a little more money for his suffering. Not that it can cure it.

re: #107 livefreeor die

My husband and I have life time and current overrated-players-not-worth-the-hassle team. Shockey and T.O. are the current receivers.

Living in the Philly area (but not an Eagles fan), we see enough local sports coverage so that McNabb increases his likelihood of making the team every year.

where does pacman jones rate on your chart?

As much as I loved Shockey's play (and I do have the No. 80 jersey), he was a headcase. He has maybe three or four seasons left in him if healthy, and the NYG get a No. 2 and 5 draft picks for him. Not a bad deal.

Oh, and Kevin Boss is no slouch. They're loaded at WR anyway.

Speaking of headcases, how many Sawx fans are upset to see Manny go?

re: #107 livefreeor die

Can you work Manny Ramirez onto that team. Man I am glad he is off my team!

I hope the investigation will continue.. after all people died and their loved ones deserve answers to what happened and who was behind it..

re: #116 JammieWearingFool

As much as I loved Shockey's play (and I do have the No. 80 jersey), he was a headcase. He has maybe three or four seasons left in him if healthy, and the NYG get a No. 2 and 5 draft picks for him. Not a bad deal.

Oh, and Kevin Boss is no slouch. They're loaded at WR anyway.

Speaking of headcases, how many Sawx fans are upset to see Manny go?

Well, as a Yankees fan, I'm sorry to see Manny go!

re: #108 HoosierHoops

Just as long as Manning is the QB.. you can have as many SB rings as you want.. every other year.
/peyton needs more too

A meeting of the last two champions in SB 43 would be fun.

re: #113 Big Steve

Perhaps it's the fighter in me- I would want to clear my name. So I suppose that makes it difficult for me to see how an innocent person would succumb instead of fight.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Evidently he had some major mental issues regardless of the anthrax flap,,,,, according to one of his brothers in a statement to the fibbs.

re: #43 maddogg

Not a chance. The guy was a scientist and used to doing incredibly precise work with dangerous materials. He had no accident. He did precisely what he intended to do. Sloppy emotional people have "accidents".

Really? So scientists who are used to doing incredibly precise work with dangerous materials do not have accidents? Why would that be? Because they are scientists? Because they have handled the material before?

Never bet your life on not having an accident.

re: #115 HoosierHoops

where does pacman jones rate on your chart?

He needs to be a big talking, pain in the a** for a couple more years.
Sorry, you have to work to be on these teams!

re: #119 livefreeor die

Well, as a Yankees fan, I'm sorry to see Manny go!

Either your not a real Yankee fan or out of your mind! He killed us, even when he was with the Indians. Don't take this personal, but what games were you watching?

I wonder if Amadinejad would consider committing suicide?

Oh - that's right. He and all of Iran are with their Nuclear Weapons program.

Never mind.

Okay, so we're in baseball again now?

I question the timing. ®

re: #15 maddogg

You can indict a ham sandwich. This is pretty damn far from an admission of guilt.

If ham sandwiches weren't guilty they wouldn't be so damn tasty.
Your Honor I rest my case
Judge - It's about time
Your Honor, I appeal to you!
Judge - No, you do not.

re: #126 karmic_inquisitor

I think they consider it glorious martyrdom. The problem is that they want to take a few million people with them.

re: #125 Nevergiveup

Either your not a real Yankee fan or out of your mind! He killed us, even when he was with the Indians. Don't take this personal, but what games were you watching?

Yankees fan since 1976 when I went to my first game in what was then the new stadium. Manny was just starting to stir up real problems in Boston and the press and fans there was getting all over it. The Red Sox do not have a good history of handling the crushing crap they get from their fans or press at times ('78 and the post Boston Massacre is the best example of this effect ) and things spiral out of control (see the last two weeks). We were about to see a "Perfect Storm" spiral hit.

And if he's not a Yankee, he's going to crush us whoever he plays for, so why not see him bring the Sox down in the process.

re: #121 Sharmuta

Perhaps it's the fighter in me- I would want to clear my name. So I suppose that makes it difficult for me to see how an innocent person would succumb instead of fight.

Yeah....me too. But I work around a lot of PhD squared types and many have egos as fragile as poets. One guy I knew was a wreck for weeks and ultimately had to take time off from work just because someone shouted out the window at him over some minor road rage incident. Even the strongest of personality types (like the Enron guys) can get turned to putty by the Feds. Again....the FBI track record on this (the anthrax case) isn't good.

Who owns the Turks and Caicos Islands?

re: #127 The Other Les

Okay, so we're in baseball again now?

Always.

Evidently the big tipoff was that he failed to re-swab or even remember thinking about re-swabbing some supposedly contaminated area that he had reported.....? ...and that, according to scientists, is just unrealistic.
Not knowing anything about bacterial research, I would take their word for it......

re: #100 JammieWearingFool

A few more Super Bowl rings.

Three just isn't enough.

Indeed not - I figure we need about 5 more - one for each finger on each hand (thumb rings are stupid) although a sixth could be worn on a chain around the neck! LOL!

re: #116 JammieWearingFool

Bought an Armstead jersey. He was gone the next season.

Bought a Shockey jersey. He's gone.

Don't know which I'll but now. I'm still on the fence re Manning.

re: #136 realwest

Indeed not - I figure we need about 5 more - one for each finger on each hand (thumb rings are stupid) although a sixth could be worn on a chain around the neck! LOL!

Hey, leave some for us Skins fans. Just as long as the Cowboys don't get anymore.

re: #131 livefreeor die

Yankees fan since 1976 when I went to my first game in what was then the new stadium. Manny was just starting to stir up real problems in Boston and the press and fans there was getting all over it. The Red Sox do not have a good history of handling the crushing crap they get from their fans or press at times ('78 and the post Boston Massacre is the best example of this effect ) and things spiral out of control (see the last two weeks). We were about to see a "Perfect Storm" spiral hit.

And if he's not a Yankee, he's going to crush us whoever he plays for, so why not see him bring the Sox down in the process.

They traded him to the minor leagues- ur I mean the National league. So we don't have to see him again unless we make the Series. I've been a fan since I first went to the Stadium in 1963. And Manny is the BEST right handed hitter I ever saw. But arguments, beer, and hot dogs are what baseball is all about.

re: #133 Nevergiveup

ENgland!

OT:

New Tactic in Legal Jihad

A federal prosecutor who has led a series of investigations into Islamic militants and Muslim groups based in Virginia, Gordon Kromberg, may soon be facing a trial of sorts himself, if defense lawyers get their way.

Attorneys for a former Florida college professor who pleaded guilty two years ago to aiding Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Sami Al-Arian, are asking a federal judge to hold a hearing on whether anti-Muslim bias led to the government's decision to obtain a new indictment of Al-Arian in June for contempt for refusing to testify before grand juries pursuing the Virginia organizations.

--SNIP--

Al-Arian's lawyers claim that in 2006, when Mr. Kromberg moved to obtain new testimony from the former professor following his guilty plea in Florida, the prosecutor "became agitated" in response to a defense lawyer's request that the testimony be put off until after the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. "They can kill each other during Ramadan. They can appear before the grand jury; all they can't do is eat before sunset," Mr. Kromberg responded, according to a declaration written by one of Al-Arian's attorneys, Jack Fernandez. Mr. Fernandez said the prosecutor described the request for a postponement as "all part of the attempted Islamization of the American justice system." Mr. Fernandez wrote that he viewed the comments as exhibiting "apparent bias against Muslims."

--SNIP--

The truth is now anti-muslim bias. Welcome to Obamaworld.

When I hear it had been aerosolized, I knew it had be to someone with serious resources and knowledge.

re: #136 realwest

Indeed not - I figure we need about 5 more - one for each finger on each hand (thumb rings are stupid) although a sixth could be worn on a chain around the neck! LOL!

[deleted] you all!
It's Seattle's turn!

re: #131 livefreeor die

This whole deal with Manny lately is the first time, with all his antics over the years, that I can recall the management and the other players and being fed up with him. Ownership has gotten to this point before, but with his big contract they just couldn't find the right deal to get rid of him. Now that he is in the last year of his deal they were able to bite the bullet and get it done. This move finally makes this team a 100% Theo Epstein team, and that is a good thing.

re: #137 Ben Hur

You shouldn't be.....
it's in his genes.

From the very beginning, the investigation focused on government labs -- both foreign and domestic. Apparently the genetic strain of the anthrax used in the attacks was highly pure [i.e. genetically uniform] and the medium it was contained in was highly refined [ground to a finer power than regular commercial machinery could accomplish]. I doubt any underground terrorist lab would be able to make a weaponized anthrax to such high standards, and I don't know why they would want to -- if they weren't going to spread it by air, it wouldn't need to be as refined as it was. In short, the anthrax came from an expensive government lab.

re: #139 Nevergiveup

They traded him to the minor leagues- ur I mean the National league. So we don't have to see him again unless we make the Series. I've been a fan since I first went to the Stadium in 1963. And Manny is the BEST right handed hitter I ever saw. But arguments, beer, and hot dogs are what baseball is all about.

I have two words. Designated Hitter.
AL pitchers need to play both sides of the plate. Wimps.

re: #138 livefreeor die

Hey, leave some for us Skins fans. Just as long as the Cowboys don't get anymore.

The Pats are going to back as strong as ever. The Giants were just a fluke.

re: #141 RickZ

And sports stars like Olajuwan were able to play ball.

re: #143 jcm

[deleted] you all!
It's Seattle's turn!

Seattle has a football team?

/smoke

re: #137 Ben Hur Nah, I think you're ok with a Manning Jersey. Especially after the three road trip playoff wins and the Super Bowl where he DIDN'T lose his composure at the end.

Mmm, i have absolutely zero confidence that they got the guy.

re: #123 Eowyn2

Really? So scientists who are used to doing incredibly precise work with dangerous materials do not have accidents? Why would that be? Because they are scientists? Because they have handled the material before?

Never bet your life on not having an accident.

An accident is when you get distracted and run a red light. Taking too many pills is not an accident for deliberate people. If I was going to kill myself, I would succeed on the first try, and probably would not bother with a note, because I am a deliberate person, and killing yourself with pills is successful if you are serious, and an accident if you want attention.

Way O/T, but anytime I hear the word ' decapitation' I wonder.... anyone have details on that guy who killed someone on a Greyhound up in Canada?

re: #138 livefreeor die
"Just as long as the Cowboys don't get anymore."
Yeah, I'll vote for that!

re: #77 CyanSnowHawk

Hounded by overzealous prosecutors. It's not entirely unheard of. Paul Pfingst here in San Diego killed his career as the District Attorney by doing that.

OTOH, I think he is the likely culprit and I hope he left behind a confession after his self imposed punishment.

I will vouch for your observation.

We have had some very silly prosecutions. "Silly" is probably the wrong word given the implications for the accused, but it is hard to think of another when you look at the weak facts combined with a media loving megalomaniac prosecutor who could not resist prosecuting based on sensational narrative.

The Stephanie Crowe case should make any parent cringe at how prosecutoral misconduct can ruin lives and compound tragedy.

I consider myself tough on crime, but I have no problem with forcing prosecutors to do their jobs professionally and ethically.

re: #87 maddogg

The uni-bomber ceased attacks for 6 years.

While he worked on more effective bombs, apparently. And the fact that he was seen at the site of the last one might have scared him off for a bit.

That's Unabomber, by the way.

re: #139 Nevergiveup

They traded him to the minor leagues- ur I mean the National league. So we don't have to see him again unless we make the Series. I've been a fan since I first went to the Stadium in 1963. And Manny is the BEST right handed hitter I ever saw. But arguments, beer, and hot dogs are what baseball is all about.

It wouldn't shock me to see Manny in NY next year (Mets or Yankees). They are two of only a handful of teams with the money to sign him.

re: #151 realwest

The only reason they had that run, including the super bowl, is because the day before the first playoff game I bought my son his first jersey - it was Manning.

re: #150 Truck Monkey

Seattle has a football team?

/smoke

I hear they used to have a baseball team.

re: #139 Nevergiveup

They traded him to the minor leagues- ur I mean the National league. So we don't have to see him again unless we make the Series. I've been a fan since I first went to the Stadium in 1963. And Manny is the BEST right handed hitter I ever saw. But arguments, beer, and hot dogs are what baseball is all about.

We'll still have to face him during the relatively new (and much hated in my household) scheduling of AL-NL games during the regular season.

re: #153 maddogg
It said that the overdose he took (of Tylenol #3) was ' masssive'. Ugh...... what an ugly, and deliberate.... way to kill yourself.

re: #158 Ford_Prefect

It wouldn't shock me to see Manny in NY next year (Mets or Yankees). They are two of only a handful of teams with the money to sign him.

The Dodgers have the money, if they like what the see.

Wow, it sounds like kos in here. I had no idea everyone assumed if the FBI is about to arrest you that you must be innocent.

Bush cleaning house? Depression (no proof, but that must have been it), forced to suicide.

I gotta go take a shower after this thread. Now let's get back to creationist = islamic fundamentalist!

re: #133 Nevergiveup

Who owns the Turks and Caicos Islands?

I hate to be immodest, but I do.

/ actually, I haven't got a clue. Have you tried the CIA world fact book?

re: #163 Spiny Norman

*what they see*

re: #160 Ford_Prefect

I hear they used to have a baseball team.

The Pilots. I still have the baseball cards that prove their existence.

re: #163 Spiny Norman

The Dodgers have the money, if they like what the see.

I am just thinking that he might be ready to go the DH route.

OT

Obama continues to refine his energy policy.

Obama simply asks that big oil companies contribute a reasonable share of the windfall profits they receive from high oil prices over the next five years to pay for emergency assistance for families right now,” the campaign says.

Scary stuff.

re: #150 Truck Monkey

Seattle has a football team?

/smoke

Okay, that's it the gloves come off!

LOL!

British West Indies re: #133 Nevergiveup

Who owns the Turks and Caicos Islands?

re: #165 karmic_inquisitor

They're Brit crown colonies.

And the pressure and the despair on top of paying a year's worth of attorney fees, with no end sight?

And don't forget the prosecutor's ace in the hole: obstruction of justice and perjury. Ivin's, like Scooter Libbey before him could only see an endless stream of litigation and costly attorney fees. At 62, who could blame him for despairing?

re: #148 Ford_Prefect
Ah, I bet you say that every night! LOL!
As a Giant's fan for almost 50 years now, I just LOVED the Super Bowl, but was truly amazed at how the Giant "D" whipped the crap out of NE's OL.
That I'll ever be thankful for, but never really understand!

re: #90 mean Gene

It was Dr David Kelly in the UK in 2003.
He supposedly killed himself by slashing hyis wrists with a pen knife.
He had been a UN weapons' inspector.
The pen knife was free of fingerprints, leading some to think he was murdered.
Later he was cleared of "sexing up" a dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Ahem.
It was in fact Dr Kelly who accused Tony Blair and his spin doctor of sexing up a dossier on Iraq's WMD. He was not 'authorised' to speak to the press (in this case, a BBC journalist who lost his job).
The following judicial inquiry - within the tightest parameters - found Tony B and his spin meister innocent of 'sexing up' that dossier in question.
That dossier claimed that Saddam had WMD which could be armed and ready to attack GB within 45 minutes. Dr Kelly, who had been to Iraq many times (and was not against the war or against getting rid of Saddam!) knew that this particular claim was wrong.

Yeah he killed himself, with a pen knife and a few paracetamol tablets. People here are letting it rest because his family are still distraught, especially his ill widow.

George Bush is executing accomplices, using the Consitution as tp, and all you can talk about is baseball?!?!?!?!?

re: #160 Ford_Prefect

I hear they used to have a baseball team.

That the truth this season.

No more round ball for real gone to OKC.

re: #133 Nevergiveup

Who owns the Turks and Caicos Islands?

This is a trick question or what?

Paris Hilton tries to think and worries about getting icky think lines.

re: #137 Ben Hur

Bought an Armstead jersey. He was gone the next season.

Bought a Shockey jersey. He's gone.

Don't know which I'll but now. I'm still on the fence re Manning.

I may go with a No. 12 Steve Smith jersey now. He's going to be a star and probably around a long time.

I bought the Shockey jersey in 2002.

Still have a No. 56 and No. 89 Bavaro in the closet.

re: #167 Truck Monkey

The Pilots. I still have the baseball cards that prove their existence.

Sick Stadium, site of a Lowe's now.

re: #156 karmic_inquisitor

I will vouch for your observation.

We have had some very silly prosecutions. "Silly" is probably the wrong word given the implications for the accused, but it is hard to think of another when you look at the weak facts combined with a media loving megalomaniac prosecutor who could not resist prosecuting based on sensational narrative.

The Stephanie Crowe case should make any parent cringe at how prosecutoral misconduct can ruin lives and compound tragedy.

I consider myself tough on crime, but I have no problem with forcing prosecutors to do their jobs professionally and ethically.

Pfingst went totally pit bull on the Crowe case. That was such a mess.

re: #136 realwest

Indeed not - I figure we need about 5 more - one for each finger on each hand (thumb rings are stupid) although a sixth could be worn on a chain around the neck! LOL!

I'll settle for six. Nobody has more than five.

re: #169 filetandrelease

OT

Obama continues to refine his energy policy.

Scary stuff.

GM lost 15.5 BILLION dollars.

Logic would dictate that that makes Baruch happy.

re: #176 Ben Hur

George Bush is executing accomplices, using the Consitution as tp, and all you can talk about is baseball?!?!?!?!?

But football doesn't really start for another five weeks.

re: #175 yma o hyd

Wow. Slashing your wrists is usually a) an ineffective and b) girly way to commit suicide.....
I'd be suspicious too.

re: #179 JammieWearingFool

They don't don't make 'em like Bavarro anymore.

re: #16 Sharmuta

Why would an innocent man kill himself?

It's not something I can ever imagine doing myself, but over 30,000 people kill themselves annually in the US alone. There are a lot of reason why they do so. It's not too hard to imagine the stress of an investigation pushing someone already borderline to such drastic action.

re: #160 Ford_Prefect

I hear they used to have a baseball team.

So did San Diego.

re: #185 tradewind

Definately not GIRLY.

Girls don't like a messy suicide.

re: #159 Ben Hur Well thank you very much. Buy him another one, this year, would ya?!

re: #187 mossley

Yeah... look at Vince Foster.

re: #149 Ben Hur

And sports stars like Olajuwan were able to play ball.

Hakeem followed strict muslim requirements during Ramadan and would fast appropriately. His performance would noticibly deteriorate during January. Rudy T. used to reduce his minutes. However he would come roaring back for the stretch run to the playoffs.

re: #174 realwest

Ah, I bet you say that every night! LOL!
As a Giant's fan for almost 50 years now, I just LOVED the Super Bowl, but was truly amazed at how the Giant "D" whipped the crap out of NE's OL.
That I'll ever be thankful for, but never really understand!

To be honest with you I was trying to stir up the pot. I am only a marginal football fan and rout for the Pats because they are a Boston area team. Going into the Superbowl I told one of the guys that I work with that the Pats were going in too overconfident. Always a dangerous thing in sports.

re: #169 filetandrelease

OT

Obama continues to refine his energy policy.

Scary stuff.

Can you see Obama giving Chavez shill Joe Kennedy the Energy Department?
Why can't Justice do something about this unregistered foreign agent? The Kennedy anti-Hillary tie in to Obama and Chavez seems worth exploring.

re: #186 Ben Hur

They don't don't make 'em like Bavarro anymore.

Another TE that had a limited shelf life in the NFL. They take a beating.

re: #176 Ben Hur

George Bush is executing accomplices, using the Consitution as tp, and all you can talk about is baseball?!?!?!?!?

Bush can't leave that to Cheney. He only shoots lawyers, and then only wounds them.

re: #184 livefreeor die

But football doesn't really start for another five weeks.

The Hall of Fame game (Wash & Indy) is tonight right?

re: #169 filetandrelease

OT

Obama continues to refine his energy policy.

Scary stuff.

It's volume on low margin. My industry we'd be out of business at those profit margins.

re: #189 Ben Hur

I think if you check the stats, more women attempt the wrist slash than men.
Usually, they don't cut deeply enough, and freak out and get saved.

re: #192 Big Steve

Hakeem followed strict muslim requirements during Ramadan and would fast appropriately. His performance would noticibly deteriorate during January. Rudy T. used to reduce his minutes. However he would come roaring back for the stretch run to the playoffs.

Yes.

He would play, though.

And don't remind anyone that Abdul Rauff wouldn't stand duing the Star Spangled Banner because the flag was a symbol if America's oppression of his co-religionists during the CLINTON administration years before 9/11.

re: #176 Ben Hur

George Bush is executing accomplices, using the Consitution as tp, and all you can talk about is baseball?!?!?!?!?

It is not news to us that the Evil McChimpy regime is involved in silencing it's critics. In fact, I personally saw Rove and Cheney rapelling out of the black choppers at Ft. Dietrich with 'scrip bottles in hand. Now...... lets talk SPORTS!

/

re: #176 Ben Hur

George Bush is executing accomplices, using the Consitution as tp, and all you can talk about is baseball?!?!?!?!?

Who does George Bush play for?

re: #198 jcm

It's volume on low margin. My industry we'd be out of business at those profit margins.

Now you are getting to what Obama really wants for the oil industry.

re: #193 Ford_Prefect

To be honest with you I was trying to stir up the pot. I am only a marginal football fan and rout for the Pats because they are a Boston area team. Going into the Superbowl I told one of the guys that I work with that the Pats were going in too overconfident. Always a dangerous thing in sports.

Belichick said before the playoffs the Giants were the one NFC team he wanted no part of, and they did give them a game in Week 17. I don't think it was a matter of overconfidence; they just ran into a buzzsaw defensive line and a team that was on a magical roll.

re: #179 JammieWearingFool "Still have a No. 56 and No. 89 Bavaro in the closet."
And I still have number 11 - Phil Simms.

New Israeli leadership...could the stars be lining up against Iran?

Iran Heads Toward Nuclear `Breakthrough,' Israel Says

re: #199 tradewind

Women freaking out?

Strange.

LOL1

Pool time with JWF Jr.

BBL.

I

first went to the Stadium in 1963. And Manny is the BEST right handed hitter I ever saw. But arguments, beer, and hot dogs are what baseball is all about

.

You won't get any arguments from me. And what's that crap about the NL being a minor league to the AL? It would be more accurate to say the NL is where the AL players go to before they retire.

re: #197 apachegunner

The Hall of Fame game (Wash & Indy) is tonight right?

I believe so. We're all focused on the induction ceremonies tomorrow. My favorite Skins player (Monk) and my husband's favorite (Green) are both going in tomorrow. We debated trying to go but the kids have alot going on and I'm gestating.

re: #185 tradewind

Wow. Slashing your wrists is usually a) an ineffective and b) girly way to commit suicide.....
I'd be suspicious too.

This is true. At OCS they explaied that having one of your troops attempt suicide and fail was a paperwork nightmare and Not Career Enhancing. One of the instructors playfully suggested we casually demonstrate how opening the veins lengthwise was more effective than the horizontal saw across the wrists.

re: #187 mossley

Yes- I'm far too familiar with suicidal statistics. The leading cause is untreated depression, which the article states this man was being treated.

It's just difficult for me to see how an innocent person would resort to suicide as a means to escape prosecution. I'm a fighter, and if it were me, I would fight to clear my name, so it's just difficult for me to see this as anything but a sign of a guilty conscience. I admit it's my personality which is biasing me.

re: #198 jcm

It's volume on low margin. My industry we'd be out of business at those profit margins.

But, but Exxon/Mobil is buying back stock! That proves the conspiracy!

/chuckie schmuckie schumer

re: #189 Ben Hur

Definately not GIRLY.

Girls don't like a messy suicide.

Women tend to resort to pills, while men opt for guns or other more physically violent means.

What about the guy in Britain that offed himself after being publicly humiliated by MPs?

re: #210 livefreeor die

Had not pictured you as female given your user name and avatar. Just goes to show what assuming can do!

re: #202 Ford_Prefect

Who does George Bush play for?

George is a good family man. He plays for Barbara and the girls.

re: #203 Iron Fist

Now you are getting to what Obama really wants for the oil industry.

I'd like to see Exxon internals, how much profit is made from the retail sale of gasoline, vs. energy services Exxon provides. My guess is the bulk of the profit is made from the services and not gasoline sales.

re: #214 Sharmuta

Women tend to resort to pills, while men opt for guns or other more physically violent means.

Women want to look good even when dead. Men just want to get it over with.

//

re: #213 Spiny Norman

But, but Exxon/Mobil is buying back stock! That proves the conspiracy!

/chuckie schmuckie schumer

So's my company.......

I knew a man who killed himself by dragging a lawn mower into the bathroom, starting it, closed the door, and lay down in the bathtub. Now thats deliberate.

re: #212 Sharmuta

Yes- I'm far too familiar with suicidal statistics. The leading cause is untreated depression, which the article states this man was being treated.

It's just difficult for me to see how an innocent person would resort to suicide as a means to escape prosecution. I'm a fighter, and if it were me, I would fight to clear my name, so it's just difficult for me to see this as anything but a sign of a guilty conscience. I admit it's my personality which is biasing me.

It is hard to see if it's not in your personality but I've treated a number of people who just can't handle things that require fighting back. It's just not in their ways of looking at themselves and the world. They have to learn how to do those things and consider other options for "escaping" stress.

re: #216 Big Steve

Even WITH my avatar some have continued to think I'm male.

Oh, well.

re: #208 JammieWearingFool

Pool time with JWF Jr.

BBL.

What teams does Jr. like? How much is the entry fee for your pool?

EU sources: We won't make big fuss over Iran deadline

Deadline Shmeadline.

re: #216 Big Steve

Had not pictured you as female given your user name and avatar. Just goes to show what assuming can do!

User name and avatar heavily influenced by Army brat status!

re: #224 Sharmuta

Even WITH my avatar some have continued to think I'm male.

Oh, well.

You're not? WOW! ;)

re: #207 Ben Hur

Yeah, in that instance.
Don't get me started on the causes of Men Freaking Out. There's not enough room...
:)

re: #218 jcm

I'd like to see Exxon internals, how much profit is made from the retail sale of gasoline, vs. energy services Exxon provides. My guess is the bulk of the profit is made from the services and not gasoline sales.

Posted this early but ExxonMobil's 8K for the second quarter can be found here.

ExxonMobil 2Q SEC filing

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey

There was something on NPR this morning about how Obama is going to lower "the cost of energy" while raising taxes on the oil companies.

Now, I'm just a city boy, but it doesn't seem to me like raising the oil companies' cost of doing business is a right smart way to get lower prices for their product.

All this, of course, was salted with the usual blather about how we shouldn't drill for oil but should instead sit around and wait for The As-Yet Undiscovered Alternate Energy Source that Defies the Laws of Physics and Economics™.

The financial equivalent of "Floggings will continue until morale improves."

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey

The As-Yet Undiscovered Alternate Energy Source that Defies the Laws of Physics and Economics™ will create energy from nothing! It is a Creationist plot!

re: #146 stevieray

From the very beginning, the investigation focused on government labs -- both foreign and domestic. Apparently the genetic strain of the anthrax used in the attacks was highly pure [i.e. genetically uniform] and the medium it was contained in was highly refined [ground to a finer power than regular commercial machinery could accomplish]. I doubt any underground terrorist lab would be able to make a weaponized anthrax to such high standards, and I don't know why they would want to -- if they weren't going to spread it by air, it wouldn't need to be as refined as it was. In short, the anthrax came from an expensive government lab.

Saw a special about why this attack was so unique. Apparently non-aerosolized anthrax powder will stick together and not travel very far. The anthrax in the attack had been modified in a way that prevented it from clumping together and spread with the slightest of contact or wind. According to the expert they had on, giving a powder that ability takes significant resources and knowledge you can't get just anywhere.

Whether or not the guy was guilty, I don't know. I haven't seen any of the evidence.

Ivins' attorney said the scientist had cooperated with investigators for more than a year.

"We are saddened by his death, and disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to defend his good name and reputation in a court of law," attorney Paul F. Kemp said. "We assert his innocence in these killings, and would have established that at trial."

Kemp said that Ivins' death was the result of the government's "relentless pressure of accusation and innuendo"

/lawyers say the damnedest things...let's see how this plays out.

re: #222 livefreeor die

The best thing I read about suicide is that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem....
so there's really no logical way to know who would or what they were thinking.

re: #221 maddogg

I knew a man who killed himself by dragging a lawn mower into the bathroom, starting it, closed the door, and lay down in the bathtub. Now thats deliberate.

There is a dead end road (no pun intended) right near my house that has a concrete jersey barrier at the end. A young guy, 19 or 20, killed himself by driving his car into the barrier while doing about 60. He lived in the area so there is no way he didn't know it was there. Tough way to go.

re: #164 WitchDoctor

Wow, it sounds like kos in here. I had no idea everyone assumed if the FBI is about to arrest you that you must be innocent.

Bush cleaning house? Depression (no proof, but that must have been it), forced to suicide.

I gotta go take a shower after this thread. Now let's get back to creationist = islamic fundamentalist!

I will give a plug for the FBI. Over a period of years I had first hand experience with the FBI conducting a white collar crime investigation. My name come up often in early interviews with witnesses so I was first interviewed in a less than cordial context. They are very tough and rehearse their interviews before hand (always more than 1 agent if the person interviewed is suspected having a motive for being less than truthful).

I knew I did nothing wrong and had nothing to hide. I also knew one of the agents interviewing me from prior personal contact. I suppose I could have been backed into being charged for something I didn't do if they had wanted to. I simply stuck to the facts I knew and tried to point them to where they could be verified and tried to help with the investigation by filling in missing detail (or detail they presented to me as missing but might have known in order to test my truthfulness).

I was regularly interviewed over the course of 3 years and was sincerely thanked for my help in the end.

They ended getting plea deals with the wrongdoers who had it all coming. Score one for a working justice system.

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey Hey buzz - Chris Wallace on Fox this morning thought that Bush should reconvene Congress for the express purpose of approving drilling for oil, figuring it was a win-win.
If Congress did reconvene and vote for it, America wins, BIG TIME. IF they refuse, then McCain can point to the Dems as being against it, Big Point for McCain, but if they reconvene and DON'T approve it, a BIGGER point for McCain!

re: #236 tradewind

The best thing I read about suicide is that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem....
so there's really no logical way to know who would or what they were thinking.

That is a good quote-I'll use that for my classes.

re: #183 Ben Hur

GM better hurry with the Volt

re: #224 Sharmuta

Even WITH my avatar some have continued to think I'm male.

Oh, well.

Even without your cute avatar, you come across MUCH too charming to male!

re: #175 yma o hyd

Ahem.
It was in fact Dr Kelly who accused Tony Blair and his spin doctor of sexing up a dossier on Iraq's WMD. He was not 'authorised' to speak to the press (in this case, a BBC journalist who lost his job).
The following judicial inquiry - within the tightest parameters - found Tony B and his spin meister innocent of 'sexing up' that dossier in question.
That dossier claimed that Saddam had WMD which could be armed and ready to attack GB within 45 minutes. Dr Kelly, who had been to Iraq many times (and was not against the war or against getting rid of Saddam!) knew that this particular claim was wrong.

Yeah he killed himself, with a pen knife and a few paracetamol tablets. People here are letting it rest because his family are still distraught, especially his ill widow.

Thanks for the better memory.
He accused others of ''sexing up'' the report, you're right.
Then, after his death, it was concluded by many that he was right, that the report had been ''sexed up.''
I wonder how that jives with the 550 tons of yellow cake exported out of Iraq recently?
No where near 45 minutes from an attack, but certainly a willingness to make and sell to Osama, Hamas, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood instead of a simple $25,000 to the families of ''martyrs" in Gaza.

re: #226 Ben Hur

EU sources: We won't make big fuss over Iran deadline

Deadline Shmeadline.

The European bureaucrats have internalized the sense of urgency and work ethic of the Ottoman Sublime Porte.

re: #211 lifeofthemind

This is true. At OCS they explaied that having one of your troops attempt suicide and fail was a paperwork nightmare and Not Career Enhancing. One of the instructors playfully suggested we casually demonstrate how opening the veins lengthwise was more effective than the horizontal saw across the wrists.

They need to show the Rippy the Razor poster.

At the bottom of the panel:

[Link: www.somethingpositive.net...]

re: #230 Big Steve

Posted this early but ExxonMobil's 8K for the second quarter can be found here.

ExxonMobil 2Q SEC filing

For the first half of 2008, spending on capital and exploration projects was $12.5 billion.

The Corporation distributed a total of $10.1 billion to shareholders in the second quarter through dividends of $2.1 billion

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey

see #230.....check out how much they already pay in taxes!

re: #240 livefreeor die

Yeah, it was quoted in connection with how to talk to teenagers. It stuck in my mind..... hope it sticks in the kids'.

re: #198 jcm

It's volume on low margin. My industry we'd be out of business at those profit margins.

Ditto.

re: #245 lifeofthemind

They're just being realists. What could they actually do anyway?
Poor Eurabia... it's gone, Daddy, gone......

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey

All this, of course, was salted with the usual blather about how we shouldn't drill for oil but should instead sit around and wait for The As-Yet Undiscovered Alternate Energy Source that Defies the Laws of Physics and Economics™.

I'm sure someone's working on a safe natural gas internal combustion engine as I type.

What these idiots don't get is how long the practical development time for any new energy source is. We have really good nuclear technology out there now, and we can't even build those power plants. I'm coming around to the conspiracy theory that someone/some group is trying to keep us addicted to the oil of the very people who want us dead. I can't come up with any other explanation for the lack of R & D into other sources of renewable energy, coupled with the no drilling at home ridiculousness.

re: #212 Sharmuta

Yes- I'm far too familiar with suicidal statistics. The leading cause is untreated depression, which the article states this man was being treated.

It's just difficult for me to see how an innocent person would resort to suicide as a means to escape prosecution. I'm a fighter, and if it were me, I would fight to clear my name, so it's just difficult for me to see this as anything but a sign of a guilty conscience. I admit it's my personality which is biasing me.

If guilt or innocence were the only issue, I would agree. Lay on the costs of defending against prosecution, the damage to reputation, the effectiveness of his treatment, and possible other exacerbating issues, and I think it is easy to see how it led to this. I knew nothing about this investigation before reading this thread, but the circumstantial evidence pointed to here does not look good for his innocence and I am hearing news reports that they were about to bring charges. I think that speaks to what the prosecution thought of the strength of evidence. (assumption is that the prosecution is not corrupt or incompetent)

re: #247 The Other Les

They need to show the Rippy the Razor poster.

At the bottom of the panel:

[Link: www.somethingpositive.net...]

Wow, now that is what hyperlinks and blogging and the internet is all about.

re: #210 livefreeor die

I believe so. We're all focused on the induction ceremonies tomorrow. My favorite Skins player (Monk) and my husband's favorite (Green) are both going in tomorrow. We debated trying to go but the kids have alot going on and I'm gestating.

well gosh, what's more important huh?

re: #234 Hard Right

Saw a special about why this attack was so unique. Apparently non-aerosolized anthrax powder will stick together and not travel very far. The anthrax in the attack had been modified in a way that prevented it from clumping together and spread with the slightest of contact or wind. According to the expert they had on, giving a powder that ability takes significant resources and knowledge you can't get just anywhere.

Whether or not the guy was guilty, I don't know. I haven't seen any of the evidence.

Exactly. If a terrorist organization was responsible for the attack, it would have released this highly refined anthrax in the NYC subway or at a stadium somewhere... they'd want mass death and panic.

The attack was designed not to kill alot of people, but to get the attention of the media and Washington... signs that an American did it for some other reason than to terrorize.

Maybe he was depressed. Maybe he was being medicated for depression. There are anti-depressive drugs linked to suicides.

re: #227 livefreeor die

User name and avatar heavily influenced by Army brat status!

great, LGF has a lotta babes. kewl beans.

re: #244 mean Gene

That was the point though, the '45 minutes'.
Kelly knew full well that saddam was a villain, he was not against the war, he knew that Saddam was capable of hiding WMDs - what Dr Kelly objected to was the report by this committee, with MI6 and all involved, being literally 'sexed up' by Alastair Campbell, the spin meister for Tony Blair.
All knew that saddam could not possibly fire WMD towards GB within 45 minutes! But - it amde ncie headlines in the papers - and got those who were not quite for the war properly jittery, thus voting for it in Parliament.
that was all Campbell was after - and Dr Kelly, being a well known and honourable scientist, felt that such lies were unneccessary, especially since he knew the situation in Iraq.
And that was one of the reasons he spoke to the journalist (who did not keep Dr Kelly as source as secret as he should and could have!) - the other being that his international renommee would be damaged by such lies.
He could not cope with the hounding by the civil service and Alastair Campbell - he saw his job, his reputation, everyhting going down the drain, and his wife was very ill.
Still - suicide by pen knife, and no signs of blood loss at the place were he was found ... suspicious indeed, but for his family's sake, in GB this affair has been dropped.

re: #212 Sharmuta

It's just difficult for me to see how an innocent person would resort to suicide as a means to escape prosecution.

May you never have to learn from first (Or second) hand experience.

re: #77 CyanSnowHawk

Paul Pfingst here in San Diego killed his career as the District Attorney by doing that.

And Mike Aguirre can fuck right off.

re: #224 Sharmuta

Even WITH my avatar some have continued to think I'm male.

Oh, well.

You must have missed the sweet spot that defines real female.

Too girly and you are assumed to be a guy faking it.
Not girly enough and you are just assumed to be a guy.

re: #259 buzzsawmonkey

Natural gas, of course, involves drilling also, unless you have a lot of pigsh*t for distillation purposes. And the NIMBYs will object to building pigsh*t distilleries too.

Not to mention that Iran has some of the largest natural gas fields in the world. So changing to natural gas as a main source of energy would be us jumping out of the Sowdi frying pan and into the Iranian fire.

But let's say that a natural gas internal combustion engine that is workable is developed. How are you going to fill 'er up? Are you going to have to change tanks completely, or will you be able to put in anything from $5 worth of fuel up to a full tank? And if this is solved, where is the distribution network for this new fuel going to suddenly spring from? Do you think that all the filling stations in America are going to suddenly invest in natural gas filling pumps when only a few thousand such vehicles, scattered across the continental US, are on the road?

Mere details. It's the thought that counts.

/Obamaworld