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Overnight Open Thread

Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 11:31:00 pm PDT

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld

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596 comments

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1 brainwizard73  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:32:25pm

Uh, Senator Obama

Testing 1, 2, 3?

2 ggt  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:32:39pm

Just like clock-work. I log-on and either realwest goes to bed, or Charles opens a new thread.

Sometimes it's nice to be predictable, or does this mean I have hidden powers? ;)

3 brainwizard73  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:33:55pm

re: #2 ggt

If so your powers are on loan from the One.

4 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:34:32pm

re: #2 ggt

Just like clock-work. I log-on and either realwest goes to bed, or Charles opens a new thread.

Sometimes it's nice to be predictable, or does this mean I have hidden powers? ;)

I just think you have a touch of something about you. ;)

Good morning ggt, and other fellow lizards. How goes the fight tonight?

5 FamHistoryGuy  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:35:00pm

I most likely would not do well with power. Slow typing tonight, sudden case of carpel tunnel.

6 RedPepper  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:36:45pm

Give him power?

If you want to test his character, give him adoration!

And, on that basis, brainwizard73 ... BHO flunks!

7 ggt  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:38:38pm

re: #3 brainwizard73

Well, strictly speaking, all power comes from the ONE, just not the one on Earth. ;)

re: #4 BlueCanuck

You mean, I'm touched. There may be a case for that.

The fight goes well, I finally got on antibiotics and am awake, breathing easy and headache free. Too bad it's the middle of the night, but I am thankful for small favors.

How you-all doin'?

8 thelongblogger  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:39:27pm

Ah yes - a blast from the past.

A reminder of the good old days, when "French intellectual" was a compliment.

9 brainwizard73  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:41:04pm

re: #6 RedPepper

Give him power?

If you want to test his character, give him adoration!

And, on that basis, brainwizard73 ... BHO flunks!

True we don't even need to give him power to see the character. Although there have been warning signs in the past that should have tipped us. I just wonder with so many people thinking they have heard enough of Obamania whether HRC actually has the guts to try to beat him at the convention on a vote. If she doesn't think he can win, she should...then again, I am hoping for a McCain electoral college landslide, so I might have a bias.

10 Metal Man  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:41:55pm

Is this quote like the curse of the lottery?
We all dream of all the good we could do with the money but allot of those who win do little good and end up miserable.
We all still dream but winning is the ultimate test of ones beliefs.

11 pat  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:42:14pm

So when does the second half start?

12 RedPepper  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:42:20pm

re: #8 thelongblogger

A reminder of the good old days, when "French intellectual" was a compliment.

Or, at the very least, not an oxymoron.

13 RedPepper  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:47:33pm

re: #9 brainwizard73


“I have a dream that the day will come when my children will be judged not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character.” ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Character.

Fine with me, Martin!

And that is why I will not be voting for Barack Obama.

14 brainwizard73  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:50:08pm

re: #13 RedPepper

Some men are born with character.

Some men inherit character.

Some men develop character.

Some men...marry character.

The Shrew has character coming out her ears...maybe Barack didn't think he was genuine enough so he found the Shrew.

15 stevieray  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:50:14pm

Hey! Everybody's up here in this thread!

Repost from the last:

Well, Georgia pulled their troops from South Ossetia.

The stated reason for Russia's involvement is gone.

If Russian doesn't stand down now, they cede their already thin claim to the moral highground... and any legitimacy as a "peacekeeper".

16 RedPepper  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:51:51pm

Some men are characters ...

17 stevieray  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:52:11pm

re: #15 stevieray

More here.

18 brainwizard73  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:52:34pm

Alright, that is enough of that. I have to put a kid back in bed. Good night and (unless you are Al Franken) good luck!

19 twincitiesgirl  Sat, Aug 9, 2008 11:58:26pm

Here's a current event application of tonight's quote--goodnight all.

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

John Edwards said as much on the Nightline interview, the only part where he was somewhat honest. He said he had reached a place in life where he thought he could do whatever he wanted and didn't really consider the effect it would have on others. Basically confessing to be a self-serving narcissistic b*stard. Too bad we would never had heard those words if he wasn't forced to admit what he did.

20 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:02:14am

re: #2 ggt

Just like clock-work. I log-on and either realwest goes to bed, or Charles opens a new thread.

Sometimes it's nice to be predictable, or does this mean I have hidden powers? ;)

could you please hide Austin Powers?

21 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:03:33am

re: #19 twincitiesgirl

Isn't it a good thing he bowed out of the race for the Democrat nomination. Well good for him at least. Just imagine if he was still in the running when all this mess blew up.

22 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:06:55am
23 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:07:32am

re: #21 BlueCanuck

I want you to listen to me. I’m going to say this again ; I did not have sexual love relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky Ms. Hunter. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time : never ! These allegations are false ; and I need to go back to work for the American people on my resumé. ~ Captain Two Americas.

24 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:11:12am

re: #23 RedPepper

Well they are both democrats. So they probably both have speech writers in common. :D

25 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:12:09am

re: #24 BlueCanuck

That's not all they have in common ...

26 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:13:48am

Any update on the situation in Georgia? The NBC nightly news was on waaaaay off in the background with the sound off....all I learned was that Bernie Mac is dead.

27 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:15:23am

From VIEW FROM THE PORCH:

Further ruminating on South Ossetia...

...has led me to believe that the U.S. military has completely spoiled the media.

A whole generation of journalists and pundits has grown to maturity believing that war is a precision affair, with special safe zones like hospitals and places of worship where the enemy can yell "Not it! Olly olly oxen free!"; where bombs only hit bad guys and the exceptions to that rule are worth a circular firing squad of finger-pointing and a cashiered officer; where women and children are safe, "collateral damage" is something to worry about, and rape is a prosecutable offense; where invading armies are trailed by a thundering herd of engineers, civil affairs, and military police and JAG types, anxious to rebuild infrastructure, put up schools, and keep the troops in line.

This is not how war works. This is an aberration, a relatively recent Anglo-American twist on warfare brought to its current fine pitch only by the might of American technology and taxes that allow us to blow up a crude hand-built donkey cart carrying a couple of AK-47's with a $250,000 computerized satellite-guided bomb. And then worry about the wrath of the ASPCA for hurting the donkey.

Nowhere else, nowhen else, has war ever been fought like that. When the Russians go into South Ossetian towns, raining dumb bombs on civilian and soldier alike, that's the way war is and has been for the entire history of the human species. The French even have a special phrase for when nuns get blown up by indiscriminate rocket fire and babies are charred by napalm and the invading army rapes their way through a village: C'est la guerre.

Such is war.

Think about that the next time you rail at America's "brutal, fascist war machine".

28 King of Hearts  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:16:03am

Maybe we shouldn't be too hasty with our assumptions...I have it on good authority that the stork brought the baby.

29 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:18:38am

re: #26 Fenway_Nation

....all I learned was that Bernie Mac is dead.....all I learned was that Bernie Mac is dead.

I heard that too. Sad news. I thought he was a hoot.

Rest In Peace, Bernie Mac.

30 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:18:47am

re: #19 twincitiesgirl

I will never understand why so many men in the course of history have jeopardized everything they have worked to build their entire lives -- for a spasm between the legs.

Is it just because I'm a woman?

31 Killian Bundy  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:19:56am

Is it too much to wish for that someone will get a good picture of Lord Obama making the Obama Signal?

/that'd be just as good as riding a tank or windsurfing like a metrosexual

32 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:21:08am
33 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:21:44am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

I will never understand why so many men in the course of history have jeopardized everything they have worked to build their entire lives -- for a spasm between the legs.

Is it just because I'm a woman?

it's the difference between being tempted and being stupid.

i'm tempted on a daily basis, but i'm not that stupid. i'd hate to die from being shot with my own gun(s). %-)

the last words i'd hear: "lemme see, how do i reload this one?....."

34 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:22:34am

re: #28 King of Hearts

Rielle Hunter shoulda done herself a favor and kept the stork.

/& the baby ... just not the baby-daddy !

35 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:24:13am

re: #28 King of Hearts

Mom!

36 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:25:47am

re: #29 RTLM


They had a clip playing from one of those Ocean's crapfests.....probably not how he wanted to be remembered. Or maybe I'm just projecting my low opinion on the Ocean's movies onto the late Mr. Mac.

Red Sox looked pretty good in the Chicago homestand of the hosiery series. I figured this would be the first real test for Boston in the Jason Bay era. It's one thing to go 6-1 against the Kansas City Royals or depleted Oakland A's. I knew the [former] division-leading White Sox would present more of a challenge.....

37 stevieray  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:25:57am

The spotlight shining on Georgia and Chinese Muslims is too much for al Qaeda... they want their headlines back! Link.

38 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:26:22am

re: #29 RTLM

Made me sad. I liked Bernie.

Call me a racist, but when I hear of a black man dying at an early age, I think high blood pressure was involved or it's complications.

Please, Lizards, if your doctor gives them to you, take your meds!

39 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:26:28am

re: #34 RedPepper

Rielle Hunter shoulda done herself a favor and kept the stork.

/& the baby ... just not the baby-daddy !

too bad she slept with the dork.

/white smoke %-)

40 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:27:11am

re: #38 ggt

Made me sad. I liked Bernie.

Call me a racist, but when I hear of a black man dying at an early age, I think high blood pressure was involved or it's complications.

Please, Lizards, if your doctor gives them to you, take your meds!

who has a doctor?

41 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:28:12am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

It's about power, not sex.

42 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:28:25am

re: #37 stevieray

The spotlight shining on Georgia and Chinese Muslims is too much for al Qaeda... they want their headlines back! Link.

sunday morning? must have been the Catholics.....

/

43 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:28:42am

re: #40 redc1c4

ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Please take care of yourselves.

44 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:29:42am

re: #41 ggt

It's about power, not sex.

that's rape. sleeping around is mostly about sex, with some power/ego boosting added.

/IMHO, of course.

45 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:29:46am

re: #33 redc1c4


LOL!

46 Metal Man  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:30:44am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

For me as a man the spasm is an after thought. It's the hunt and the competition that makes me truly stupid.

47 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:31:42am

re: #43 ggt

ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Please take care of yourselves.

i'd need a j*b with insurance. i can't go down to the local ER or anywhere else, since i'm a SWM of native birth. all the free programs are for the "less fortunate". since i was born with the keys to the vault, i get jack.

/i could drop 20-30 points if i quit reading political/news blogs. %-)

48 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:32:35am

Obama ad firm mistakenly puts the wrong Larry on an Obama campaign button.

(Larry Craig of Idaho)
Link
Pic

I would want a refund.

49 cutestguy[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:34:17am
50 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:36:46am

re: #44 redc1c4

Wonder how Ms. Hunter felt about having sex with someone who is prettier than she is?

/

51 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:37:27am

re: #49 cutestguy

Well, you won life's lottery, you see. haha

it could be worse: i could have joined the Air Force..... ;-P

/insult to injury %-)

52 stevieray  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:37:30am

Even though Georgia withdrew all their troops from South Ossetia, which is technically still part of Georgia, Russia continues to escalate.

Now blockading Georgia's Black Sea ports. Link.

I think Russia has already lost the public opinion war. Most folks think this is about oil and reasserting Russian control over former Soviet republics. The continued escalation only confirms that suspicion.

53 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:38:19am

Does anyone watch the show RedEye on FOX News Channel? You need to stay up late to see it (2am ET), but it's pretty funny.

54 stevieray  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:39:34am

Alright. Time to try to sleep again. G'nite.

55 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:39:53am

re: #50 RedPepper

Wonder how Ms. Hunter felt about having sex with someone who is prettier than she is?

/

in the file photos from the campaign, she's definitely MILF material....

she probably did him.

"squeal like a pig John, squeal!"

/brain bleach for all hands %-)

56 cutestguy[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:40:43am
57 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:41:13am

re: #38 ggt

Made me sad. I liked Bernie.

Call me a racist, but when I hear of a black man dying at an early age, I think high blood pressure was involved or it's complications.

Please, Lizards, if your doctor gives them to you, take your meds!

Oh, now, don't drink the PC Kool-Aid! It is definitely not racist to acknowledge risk factors in any medical condition, and ethnicity is a risk factor in many. Hypertension is more common among black people. Sickle cell anemia is almost exclusively a black disease, but it is also associated with higher survival rates against malaria since sickled red blood cells are not conducive to parasites. Middle aged white women like me are at risk for gall bladder disease more than any other group. Ashkenazi Jewish woman are more at risk for breast cancer than any other group, and so on and so forth.

This, from Wikipedia, states that blacks are at higher risk for symptomatic sarcoidosis, the lung condition that afflicted Bernie.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

58 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:41:26am

re: #44 redc1c4

I still think it has to do with Power --the power to have risen to a level in which one can live above the rules. Kingly power.

More like, "Hey, look what I can do!"

59 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:44:40am

re: #31 Killian Bundy

Is it too much to wish for that someone will get a good picture of Lord Obama making the Obama Signal?

/that'd be just as good as riding a tank or windsurfing like a metrosexual

I thought that was the symbol of the Almighty Bunghole.

60 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:44:47am

re: #57 American Jewess In Jerusalem

"sarcoidosis"

You mean that's a real diagnosis? All this time I thought it was some made-up word they repeated over-and-over on House. Just after they do a spinal tap and cut open some poor patients brain, they say, must be "sarcoidosis"!

/

61 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:46:14am

re: #53 _RememberTonyC

While I got you on here, TonyC, what do you think of the Jason Bay/ post-Manny Red Sox?

62 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:47:04am

re: #55 redc1c4

Did John Edwards serve in the Navy ?

(I'm thinking of the joke ...)

------------------------------------

A Marine and a sailor were sitting in a bar one day arguing over which was the superior service. After a swig of beer the Marine says, 'Well, we had Iwo Jima.'

Arching his eyebrows, the sailor replies, 'We had the Battle of Midway.”

'Not entirely true', responded the Marine. 'Some of those pilots were Marines, in fact, Henderson Field on Guadalcanal was named after a Marine pilot killed at the Battle of Midway.'

The sailor responds, 'Point taken.'

The Marine then says, 'We Marines were born at Tunn Tavern!'

The sailor, nodding agreement, says, 'But we had John Paul Jones.'

The argument continued until the sailor comes up with what he thinks will end the discussion. With a flourish of finality he says, 'The Navy invented sex!'

The Marine replies, 'That's true, but it was the Marines who introduced it to women.'

------------------------------------

(that joke ...)

63 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:48:15am
64 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:49:44am

re: #63 ploome hineni

the basic function of all things alive, is to reproduce

"Life is sexually transmitted."

65 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:50:45am

re: #58 ggt

I still think it has to do with Power --the power to have risen to a level in which one can live above the rules. Kingly power.

More like, "Hey, look what I can do!"

no argument.... i was referring to the power issue with rape, which is a somewhat different facet of the issue.

66 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:51:26am

re: #64 RedPepper

"Life is sexually transmitted terminal disease."

fixed that for ya. %-)

67 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:52:38am

HURRRRRRRRRGH.

/goooood afternoon, y'all...

68 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:55:02am

re: #67 laZardo

HURRRRRRRRRGH.

/goooood afternoon, y'all...

0100 here..... i was going to bed early tonight.

/damn LNDT's..... %-)

69 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 12:57:20am

re: #67 laZardo

HURRRRRRRRRGH.

/goooood afternoon, y'all...

hey laZardo..what's going on?

70 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:04:39am

I'm off to bed,

weet dreams all!

71 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:04:43am

i *really* need a shave & a shower before i hit the rack..... BIAB.

(please don't try to visualize that, btw. %-)

72 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:04:57am

re: #62 RedPepper

And the police after action report states, "and that's when the fight started."

73 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:05:04am

re: #50 RedPepper

Wonder how Ms. Hunter felt about having sex with someone who is prettier than she is?

/

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNNNNNNNNER

74 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:05:47am

re: #71 redc1c4

i *really* need a shave & a shower before i hit the rack..... BIAB.

(please don't try to visualize that, btw. %-)

Thanks, I was doing okay until you brought that last bit up. :p

75 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:05:54am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

I will never understand why so many men in the course of history have jeopardized everything they have worked to build their entire lives -- for a spasm between the legs.

Is it just because I'm a woman?

No, it's because the deconstructionist and physical interpretation misses the entire point. You might choose to see things that way because you're a woman and you don't understand, or you get satisfaction out of reducing the male Cheater to a simple physical phenomenon, but that's not for me to say. ;)

It's not about a "spasm" (we can do that on our own time), it's about conquest. It's not rational, and the impulse that drives us in that direction is built right into the very fabric of our beings. I think it might be the same impulse that drives us to compete and acquire food, or at least, it works at that level.

Everybody is different, and there are a lot of factors at work, but men are weak. Statistics say a lot of men are weak in that way, as a matter of fact.

I would imagine that for a cheater, on some level it becomes a contest with himself, to see if he can get away with it, and to see if he can keep spearing that antelope, so to speak. It feels good to be desired and if you're a borderline over-the-hill, effeminate hack sleazeball bullshit peddler like Edwards, maybe the only way you can feel validated as a male is to acquire women.

76 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:06:52am

re: #69 HoosierHoops

Lazy Sunday...gonna be writing this "artistic manifesto" for my Art History class and my profile should give you an idea of what's gonna be in it.

Not that continuously insisting that humans aren't really "higher" than animals didn't have its consequences...

/too much exposure to LGF can change you... (;

77 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:10:45am

re: #76 laZardo

Lazy Sunday...gonna be writing this "artistic manifesto" for my Art History class and my profile should give you an idea of what's gonna be in it.

Not that continuously insisting that humans aren't really "higher" than animals didn't have its consequences...

/too much exposure to LGF can change you... (;

where did you get my picture?
I think there is a privacy issue involved here..
/

78 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:11:46am

re: #77 HoosierHoops

IN YOUR DREAMS

79 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:13:37am

re: #78 yochanan

IN YOUR DREAMS

LOL
how is everything today yochanan?

80 Metal Man  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:14:31am

re: #71 redc1c4
Shouldn't this be the post where you pop white smoke?

81 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:16:03am

re: #77 HoosierHoops

Uh...it's the FBICINSA's special ECHELON monitoring program?

/ [:

82 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:18:13am

re: #79 HoosierHoops

ITCHY AND SCALY

83 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:20:40am

re: #82 yochanan

ITCHY AND SCALY

heh
It's 4:30am and i'm still watching the olympics..
gawd, I'm ate up with it

84 UncleSam  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:22:31am

The news on the radio said Bernie Mac died of pneumonia.

85 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:23:55am

Soviets Russians continue to bomb Georgia.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

86 Metal Man  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:26:25am

re: #84 UncleSam

Wow had to go check since he was so young.

RIP Bernie Mac.

87 Metal Man  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:36:23am

Most people say that it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
— Albert Einstein

88 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:37:53am

This one has a not suitable for minors warning.

89 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:39:39am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

I will never understand why so many men in the course of history have jeopardized everything they have worked to build their entire lives -- for a spasm between the legs.

Is it just because I'm a woman?

Rose Castorini : “Why do men chase women?”
Johnny Cammareri : ”Well, there’s the Bible story ... God ... God took a rib from Adam and made Eve. Now maybe men chase women to get the rib back. When God took the rib, he left a big hole there, where there used to be something. And the women have that. Now maybe, just maybe, a man isn’t complete as a man without a woman.”
Rose Castorini : “But why would a man need more than one woman?”
Johnny Cammareri : “I don’t know. Maybe because he fears death?”
Rose Castorini : “That’s it! That’s the reason!”
Johnny Cammareri : “I don’t know!”
Rose Castorini : “No! That’s it! Thank you! Thank you for answering my question!”

(Enter Cosmo Castorini)

Rose Castorini : “Cosmo. I just want you to know, no matter what you do, you’re gonna die just like everybody else.”
Cosmo Castorini : “Thank you, Rose!”


~~ from the 1987 film Moonstruck

90 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:41:45am

re: #74 BlueCanuck

Thanks, I was doing okay until you brought that last bit up. :p

so instead, *you* brought the last bit up....... %-)

/dibs on the big pieces!

91 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:41:50am

This is funny.

92 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:45:19am

Holy crap, a fuel station blew up about an hour ago here in Toronto! Still getting details on it.

93 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:46:32am

re: #80 Metal Man

Shouldn't this be the post where you pop white smoke?

too predictable.....

/white smoke

94 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:47:22am

re: #83 HoosierHoops

heh
It's 4:30am and i'm still watching the olympics..
gawd, I'm ate up with it

people still watch the Olympics?

/who cares?

95 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:48:16am

re: #92 BlueCanuck

A possible Shell gas station, multiple fires and such. Just the information that's been released so far. Time to check out the sat maps of the area. (Keele and Wilson)

96 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:49:03am

re: #91 The Other Les

I liked the comment...

"The author does not want to be polonium-poisoned, so he'll remain neutral."

97 Metal Man  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:51:01am

re: #93 redc1c4

I figured out of courtesy in case someone accidentally looked your way:)

98 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 1:59:38am

(Waiting for Fruit Cup ...)

99 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:00:13am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ---------------->
Help yourselves!

100 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:00:32am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

I will never understand why so many men in the course of history have jeopardized everything they have worked to build their entire lives -- for a spasm between the legs.

"That's another added bonus when facing predators – if you can keep reproducing, you're set," she said. "It's the stuff of evolution."

101 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:00:45am

RedPepper! :-)

All good things come to those that wait...

102 DesertSage  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:00:59am

Fantastic Contraption Game.

Guaranteed hours of fun for the insomniac.

103 thelongblogger  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:01:42am

Good Lord!

Two days in a row. Thank you again, littleoldlady.

And now I better go to bed...

104 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:02:12am

re: #99 littleoldlady

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ---------------->
Help yourselves!

thanks.. I'm starving!
good morning btw

105 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:03:19am

re: #101 littleoldlady

RedPepper! :-)

All good things come to those that wait...

LoL!

Follow me, forsaking all others, and I will lead you to the promised Fruitcup.

/Thank you, lol ...

106 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:04:32am

re: #92 BlueCanuck

Great...so oil will probably be back to $120+ per barrel first thing Monday.

107 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:05:00am

re: #103 thelongblogger

Two days in a row

You or me? ;-)

'Night, thelongblogger! :-)

108 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:05:40am

HoosierHoops! :-)

109 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:06:35am

re: #106 Fenway_Nation

Further news update: Apparently it was a propane depot. I was checking the map and can't locate it. There was no fuel depots in the area, only two gas stations at the intersection. The majority of the area is residential.

110 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:07:01am

Morning littleoldlady, thanks for the fruitcup.

111 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:08:06am

Soviet Russian propaganda.

At about 1:30 in the video we see the Soviet standard image of children greeting Russian paratroopers with flowers.

112 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:09:35am

BlueCanuck! :-)

I hope that explosion isn't anywhere near you....

113 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:09:35am

re: #109 BlueCanuck

Further news update: Apparently it was a propane depot. I was checking the map and can't locate it. There was no fuel depots in the area, only two gas stations at the intersection. The majority of the area is residential.

ya..you know that sign that says no smoking?
I'm thinking somebody didn't read it

114 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:10:54am

re: #99 littleoldlady

FRUUUUUUUIT CUUUUUUUUUUUP!

/ {lol}

115 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:11:18am

re: #112 littleoldlady

It's abou 10 to 20 km north west from me.

(6 to 12 miles)

116 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:12:52am

laZardoooooooooooo! :-)

117 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:13:31am

re: #115 BlueCanuck

Thanks for the translation into American. ;-)

I also hope no one got hurt!

118 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:13:35am

Almighty Supreme Being Allah Arrested in West Hartford, CT.

[Link: fox61.trb.com...]

Members of the East Central Narcotics Task Force arrested a West Hartford man was arrested after a short chase in South Windsor Thursday evening.

According to police, Almighty Supremebeing Allah, 35, of 119 Elmhurst St. West Hartford refused to stop for a marked cruiser and was detained about a mile down the road after the initial stop.

He was charged with Reckless Driving, Disobeying an Officers Signal, Interfering with an Officer, Criminal Attempt/Sale of Cocaine Criminal Attempt/Possession of Cocaine.

Police say Allah was held on a $260,000.00 bond and will be in Manchester Superior Court on Friday.

119 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:14:15am

re: #115 BlueCanuck

Okay did a direction map check and the location is exactly 15.9 km from where I am by following the streets (9 miles).

120 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:15:07am

re: #117 littleoldlady

So do I. I am going to call a friend who is in the area. Tried his landline, now going to try his cell.

121 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:17:15am

re: #118 RTLM

Almighty Supreme Being Allah Arrested in West Hartford, CT.

Has CAIR been heard from, yet?

122 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:17:46am

re: #119 BlueCanuck

Okay did a direction map check and the location is exactly 15.9 km from where I am by following the streets (9 miles).

important question: which way is the wind blowing....

/downwind hazard

123 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:19:12am

re: #122 redc1c4

WSW at Lester B. Pearson airport. So I am good for now. :) They are currently evacuating the surronding neighborhood.

124 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:21:34am

re: #123 BlueCanuck

WSW at Lester B. Pearson airport. So I am good for now. :) They are currently evacuating the surronding neighborhood.

hey Blue..that is a kewl avatar..What is that a picture of?

125 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:21:43am

And there's a Low Pressure cell currently located over Central Ontario so the winds won't change much. Just heard on the radio that there's explosions going off at the rate of 20 seconds. No dying down right now.

126 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:22:59am

re: #124 HoosierHoops

A couple more of the sculpture here. It's located by the North York Performaning Arts Centre here in Toronto.

127 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:24:37am

Massive explosion shook us out of bed just before 4 a.m. Not many details yet, but there's a report that a propane depot blew up. Just heard on the radio that things are still exploding and the fire is spreading.

128 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:26:02am

re: #127 scaramouche

Morning scaramouche. Felt it all the way downtown here. How far from Keele and Wilson are you?

129 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:26:35am

re: #126 BlueCanuck

A couple more of the sculpture here. It's located by the North York Performaning Arts Centre here in Toronto.

I need to visit Toronto sometime...My favorite city in North america is Montreal..the place rocks... lov the F1 race there

130 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:28:37am
131 loveguru  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:32:39am

Morning folks......

Georgia civilian death toll 1500

132 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:32:48am

I need to visit the Rogers Center when the Blue Jays are hosting the Red Sox....would twoonie Tuesdays be out of the question?

/Lord knows they already kicked Boston's ass on a Flashback Friday

133 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:32:50am

re: 128 Blue Canuck

Good morning to you too. I'm not far from Yorkdale Shopping Centre--close enough so that my house shook (initially, I thought a lightning bolt had score a direct hit). I can see the huge billow in the sky outside.

134 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:34:14am

re: #129 HoosierHoops

I need to visit Toronto sometime...My favorite city in North america is Montreal..the place rocks... lov the F1 race there

you need to get out more......

personally? I love LA.

/all those illegal immigrants & new yorkers can't be wrong! %-)

135 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:34:33am

re: #118 RTLM

Police Commissioner Jesus H. Christ declined to comment.

136 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:35:24am

Report on radio: it was a propane refinery.

137 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:35:54am

re: #136 scaramouche

Just heard that myself.

138 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:37:17am

re: #134 redc1c4

you need to get out more......

personally? I love LA.

/all those illegal immigrants & new yorkers can't be wrong! %-)

I played college ball in California.. I am not fond of LA..
I was in Oceanside in May at a beachhouse...never once drove north.. :)
regards

139 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:37:51am

re: #136 scaramouche


Wow....um....that's alot more propane than a propane dealership (with propane and propane accesories) I'm guessing.

/Channeling Hank Hill

140 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:38:48am

How close is it to the freeway? good this is on sunday driving in toronto sucks to begin with.

141 loveguru  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:38:55am

re: #138 HoosierHoops

I love LGF ;)

142 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:38:58am

re: #134 redc1c4

Ah, to live and die...

I'd probably get shot for yearning to go back where I left my heart. If you know where I mean. (;

143 restitutor orbis  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:39:37am

You should see the adulation being given to Uh-bama in Hawaii. Figures. He's right at home with the other racist, leftwing, peabrains that inhabit this hellish state
An idiot on an island of idiots......how fitting.

144 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:40:44am

re: #140 yochanan

It's about 200 - 300 meters north of the 401 I think. They have the surronding exits for that area shut down.

145 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:42:06am

re: #143 restitutor orbis

You should see the adulation being given to Uh-bama in Hawaii. Figures. He's right at home with the other racist, leftwing, peabrains that inhabit this hellish state
An idiot on an island of idiots......how fitting.

I've never heard Hawaii called a hellish state before..
a case of rock fever my friend?

146 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:42:17am

re: #138 HoosierHoops

I played college ball in California.. I am not fond of LA..
I was in Oceanside in May at a beachhouse...never once drove north.. :)
regards

too bad: we throw a mean party.

alternatively, we could have driven down and taken you to see my friend's punk band.

last time i stayed at a beach house down there, it was on Pendelton through the MWR people....

147 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:43:50am

re: #142 laZardo

Ah, to live and die...

I'd probably get shot for yearning to go back where I left my heart. If you know where I mean. (;

maybe you'd just be falling down...... %-)

148 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:44:48am

re: #144 BlueCanuck

the freeway system in Toronto is really bad given the size of the place and the amount of auto traffic.

149 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:45:10am

North York explosions:

[Link: community.livejournal.com...]

150 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:46:32am

re: #149 RTLM

broken link

151 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:46:54am

re: #149 RTLM

Thanks for the link. Can't see anything from the ground floor lobby I am stuck in. :/

/still chained to my desk.

152 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:47:26am

Said to be on Murray Rd: [Link: maps.google.ca...] next door to the Jewish cemetary where some members of my close family (including my dad) are buried. Hope they're okay (since they can't be evacuated).

153 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:47:47am

The link is busted thru this direstion -

Pic 2

154 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:47:53am

He Was Always A Fake

In campaign focus groups, people would say something about him was "too perfect," that there must be "something wrong with him." A YouTube clip of him obsessing over his hair captured what so many felt: He was more concerned with appearances than anything else.

Could not agree with you more, Kirsten.

One question though.

I don't recall hearing this from one of you lovely ladies of the left before he was caught. How come you didn't deign to make your take on Edwards known until now? Or are you suggesting that you only just wised up?

OK, I guess that's two questions. I lied.

155 ibmkeyboard  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:49:22am

re: #131 loveguru

Morning folks......

Georgia civilian death toll 1500

The military escalation resulted from the ``lack of a neutral and effective peacekeeping force operating under an appropriate UN mandate,'' Obama said in an e-mailed statement, backing the deployment of international peacekeepers in Georgia's breakaway states.


Million barrels of oil shipped per day.
Black sea port closed off and now controlled by Russia.

Obama and the United Nations will/could have saved us all.
The man is a genius and will come.

156 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:49:36am

re: #149 RTLM

Here's a better link to a whole group of them.

157 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:49:43am

Damn - this is hard

Pic 2 again

(worked in preview)

158 restitutor orbis  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:52:35am

re: #145 HoosierHoops

Hands down, worst state in the union. Alright place to visit, but you don't want to live here.......

Shit wrapped in sunshine.

159 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:52:35am

re: #154 RedPepper

great read...thanks

160 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:52:44am

are those orange trucks cement trucks and north of them the gas tanks?

161 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:55:39am

re: #147 redc1c4

Trust me, these days I get so tempted whenever I go into a McDonalds... [:

162 loveguru  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:56:20am

re: #155 ibmkeyboard

Million barrels of oil shipped per day.
Black sea port closed off and now controlled by Russia.

Obama and the United Nations will/could have saved us all.
The man is a genius and will come.

he us just proving that he can't lead.... his foreign policies will be disastrous .... he is not even worth Jimmy carter.

163 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:56:44am

/...and all I wanted was to watch the friggen Olympics on DVR.

(I never get anything)

164 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:59:24am
165 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 2:59:30am

had a friend who lived in north toronto high rise i bet this woke him up.

166 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:00:09am

re: #152 scaramouche

Said to be on Murray Rd: [Link: maps.google.ca...] next door to the Jewish cemetary where some members of my close family (including my dad) are buried. Hope they're okay (since they can't be evacuated).

"w*king round the clock, rescue w*rkers have so far recovered more than 1500 bodies, and that count is expected to climb throughout the day as efforts continue......"

/MSM

167 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:00:25am

I'm still fumbling my way around this whole stocks/commodities market thing, but I'm guessing with the situation in Georgia oil will be up considerably when the markets open Monday (since the market has been supposedly reacting to things like fires in Turkey or a hasty attack on a pipeline in Nigeria).

If this explosion in Toronto is half the doozy that Blue and Scaramouche are describing, watch for natural gas to go up as well as stocks for not just Amerigas, Suburban Propane or Ferrellgas but also some of the Canadian Royalty Trusts that specialize in natural gas (not sure which ones do that off the top of my head).

/just speculation on my part....

168 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:03:49am

re: #152 scaramouche

Said to be on Murray Rd: [Link: maps.google.ca...] next door to the Jewish cemetary where some members of my close family (including my dad) are buried. Hope they're okay (since they can't be evacuated).

i don't see any propane tanks in that photo... just the cement plant.

IMHO, of course. %-)

169 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:04:53am

Sunrise Propane

TORONTO — A series of explosions at a propane depot early Sunday forced police to evacuate a residential area in the city's northwest.

"It was just a tremendous explosion and blew all the windows out of the house, just blew the house up, and I just managed to get out of there in time," said Robert Helman, who lives across the street from the facility, which he identified as Sunrise Propane.

Helman, who was covered in cuts and bruises, said when he went outside, he saw a "huge fireball" followed by "multiple explosions."

He said when he ran a "wave of a heat" followed him.

The first explosion sounded like a loud thunderclap and could be heard at least seven kilometres away.

It was followed by a series of more muffled explosions.

Clouds of black smoke could be seen billowing hundreds of metres into the air.

170 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:06:35am

re: #168 redc1c4

north of the cement plant are a bunch of tanks in rows.

171 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:08:16am

re: #159 HoosierHoops

You are most welcome.

Like your avatar. Reminds me of some footage from the 1992 version of The Last of the Mohicans.

Thumbs up!

172 little blessing  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:10:01am

re: #156 BlueCanuck

That cloud of smoke brings back too many painful memories.

Hope my Canadian family members are all ok.

173 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:10:30am

re: #169 RTLM

HOLY CANNOLI! :-(

174 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:11:43am

re: #173 littleoldlady

HOLY CANNOLI! :-(

cannoli with fruit cup WHO KNEW

175 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:11:52am

re: #167 Fenway_Nation

Up $7.50/bbl on (electronic) trading to almost $123, from below $115 at close of trading Friday.

Significantly reduced US demand had led to the lower oil prices....

One thing to keep in mind is that the electronic off hour trading is highly dynamic, compared to the pit trading.

176 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:14:10am

re: #167 Fenway_Nation

Oh.. and on the Propane explosion... I'd expect that to affect propane prices (rather than NatGas prices.)

US propane stocks are well below normal for this time of year: July Propane Build Lowest Since Early 1990's

177 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:14:44am

re: #175 freetoken

Thanks....as it stands, I seem to be able to only keep track of precious metals trading after the markets close...

178 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:17:24am

re: #170 yochanan

north of the cement plant are a bunch of tanks in rows.

those are trailers...... that's *not* a refinery, near as i can tell.

179 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:17:31am

re: #172 little blessing

Do you now which major intersection they are close too? I could give you and idea of how they are affected.

/and good morning

180 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:20:29am

VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THE BLASTS HUGE.

181 RTLM  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:20:51am

Here come the Russian columns.

Pic

/Great news all over the place.

182 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:20:59am

re: #177 Fenway_Nation

Right now, we are at the only time in the week when oil is not traded (in person or on an exchange) worldwide. So only trades are online/electronic.... in just a little while trading will resume in the Far East (being it will be Monday morning there.)

183 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:21:18am

late, tired, empty glass.....

and we bid you good night.

L8r!

/white smoke

184 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:21:56am
185 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:22:32am

re: #183 redc1c4

late, tired, empty glass.....

and we bid you good night.

L8r!

/white smoke

good night sleep well

186 redc1c4  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:24:17am

re: #181 RTLM

Here come the Russian columns.

Pic

/Great news all over the place.

the one good thing is they are road marching their AFV's, which means they will be in crap mechanical shape at the end.

lower availability, higher need for maintenance and spare parts to keep them going and to repair the deadlines, which means even more drag on the log tail...... IOW: vulnerable.

187 little blessing  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:24:44am

re: #179 BlueCanuck

No use, I'm afraid. Not far from Bathurst or something like that. (The big street that stretches from the north to the south)

I just spoke to another ex-pat friend of mine who is a Canadian from Toronto and she said they should be ok. She went to school with my cousins so she knows where they live.

/you mean good evening

188 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:25:02am

re: #180 yochanan

[Link: network.nationalpost.com...]

VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THE BLASTS HUGE.

omg that blast was huge @ the 1:50 mark

189 scaramouche  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:26:21am

Could someone please wake up the Ceeb? It's almost 6:30 am and there's still nada on its site.

190 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:26:57am

re: #171 RedPepper

His avatar is a shrink-down version of one of the FREE graphics that come with Windoze when installed on a compute, Pepperr...

191 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:27:01am

The explosion at 1.50 in this vedio lights up the whole sky HUGE FIREBALL AND THUNDER

192 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:28:23am

re: #182 freetoken

Just to correct myself... electronic trading is closed at this time... until a few more hours. However, the NYMEX trading did continue electronically (as always after the 3PM close) long enough for the news to get out about the oil pipeline bombing attempt... and thus registered a sharp up tick in prices.

Yes, it will be interesting to seem what will happen when the trading resumes.

BTW, the uptick in prices were for the CLV8 contract... which is for the month following the next.

193 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:28:30am

re: #183 redc1c4

Night red, and we already have enough smoke here thank you.

/at least not in my neighbourhood yet.

194 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:29:46am

re: #190 Karridine

His avatar is a shrink-down version of one of the FREE graphics that come with Windoze when installed on a compute, Pepperr...

Not only that..but it was the only picture on my laptop that was under 32k in size..
I don't know graphics or art...So maybe someday somebody will help me do an original avatar for LGF.

195 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:30:49am

re: #187 little blessing

Okay, if they are near Bathurst then they are at least four to five km's from the location. I live along that street too, and I know the area it's located in. Hmmm, interesting sky right now. May have to take some pictures.

BBiaB.

196 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:33:13am

Well, for all you cousins across the Big Pond, winning a gold medal at Olympic games comes natural.
But for us in Wales, although part of 'Team GB', its different.
So just now we're extremely happy - make that: over the moon! - that our own Nicole Cook won the first gold medal for the team, the 200st in GBs Olympic history - and she's Welsh, yeehah!
Mind - the weather definitely suited her, she's used to that sort of stuff!

197 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:33:37am

re: #194 HoosierHoops

Well, there's always Windoze PAINT...

But better to borrow a friend's PhotoShop or some other graphic program, Hoops...

198 little blessing  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:35:38am

re: #196 yma o hyd

Congrats on your first gold metal!

/Aussie gals let us down.
//on to the soccor

199 Aylios  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:35:41am

This was linked to on Hot Air:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
Choice quotes:

Earlier this week, China said 16 policemen were killed in an attack by Islamist separatists in Xinjiang.


Seven militants and a security guard have been killed after a series of bombings in China's north-western region of Xinjiang, state media says.


China has spoken in the past of what it calls a terrorist threat from Muslim militants in Xinjiang, but it has provided little evidence to back up its claims, correspondents say.


I wonder what kind of evidence the BBC requires. This is one time that I wouldn't begrudge the Chinese government a few hefty 'human rights violations'.

200 little blessing  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:36:07am

re: #198 little blessing

soccer

Spell check!

201 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:36:14am

re: #196 yma o hyd

"We did it, it was perfect. It's a dream come true," said Cooke.

"I want to thank all the people who have been there from the start. I have worked so hard, I am so happy."

Congrads to you and your country.. I am happy for ms. cook
What a wonderful feeling it must be to win gold for your country

202 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:38:47am

A friend Stateside asked me yesterday if Thailand has ANY Olympic hopes, and I answered truthfully: men's boxing and women's weightlifting... and maybe an obscure longshot or two...

203 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:39:21am

re: #197 Karridine

Well, there's always Windoze PAINT...

But better to borrow a friend's PhotoShop or some other graphic program, Hoops...

I tried windows paint once.. It wasn't pretty..
I really have no artist talent..at all.
I got a buddy that says he'll help me...but I don't think he knows crap either....:)

204 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:40:27am

re: #201 HoosierHoops

"We did it, it was perfect. It's a dream come true," said Cooke.

"I want to thank all the people who have been there from the start. I have worked so hard, I am so happy."

Congrads to you and your country.. I am happy for ms. cook
What a wonderful feeling it must be to win gold for your country


Thanks!
It was nail-biting at the end - I was jumping up and down and screaming!

What a sporting year for our tiny country: Grand Slam in Rugby, World champ in Boxing - thats Joe Calzaghe, and now this!
Must be something to that Chinese superstition that '8' is a lucky number - its certainly been a lucky year for us so far.
Now if David Davies can win gold in the 1500 freestyle ...

205 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:42:54am

re: #202 Karridine

Better than the Philippine Olympic Team hopes. :P We only got the boxers, no women's weightlifters. Hell, pretty much all the other athletes are past their prime, and we had to hire a pro boxer as flagbearer to raise morale.

206 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:45:48am

re: #205 laZardo

Better than the Philippine Olympic Team hopes. :P We only got the boxers, no women's weightlifters. Hell, pretty much all the other athletes are past their prime, and we had to hire a pro boxer as flagbearer to raise morale.

Don't feel bad LaZardo.. we had to hire the NBA to try and wn hoops gold..shameless
hey L..read my #203..you are our resident artist..what am i to do for an avatar that is original and cool?

207 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:47:11am

re: #206 HoosierHoops

Your avatar isn't from the indiana i know.

208 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:48:37am

re: #207 yochanan

Your avatar isn't from the indiana i know.

its from a place called 'Windows XP' any suggestions?
/besides a picture of cornfields

209 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:49:58am

re: #208 HoosierHoops

how about the gary state bird 'the rusty stove pipe'

210 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:51:50am

re: #206 HoosierHoops

At least the NBA is the best league in the world, and it's an actual league. Pro boxing here's more of a show event than real competition. Hell, I admire the Dream Team for at least being homegrown and hometrained, and having good team cohesion.

Most of the athletes here have to be sent abroad to train. As for team sports, I find it stupefying that basketball is the country's national obsession when most of our players can't reach past Yao Ming's navel.

/tragic.

211 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:52:25am

re: #209 yochanan

how about the gary state bird 'the rusty stove pipe'

your killing me!
:)

212 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:54:35am

once went to the dunes national park which unlike most national parks is in the middle of a old steel mill.

213 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:56:47am

re: #206 HoosierHoops

As for that avatar...I could try cropping that "picture" of you. (;

214 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:57:55am

re: #203 HoosierHoops

Hoosier, try THIS or THAT

215 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 3:59:46am

re: #210 laZardo

Well my friend bball is a global sport...It's only going to get bigger and better...

216 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:00:55am

re: #214 Karridine

Hoosier, try THIS or THAT

bad linkies
page cannot be displayed error

217 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:01:14am

re: #215 HoosierHoops

Besides which, at least you didn't hire the Harlem Globetrotters. q:

218 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:01:30am

I know what I did wrong, Hoosier, try this and that...

219 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:01:46am

re: #213 laZardo

As for that avatar...I could try cropping that "picture" of you. (;

That would be friggin awesome..just call me handsome!
:)

220 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:02:37am

re: #217 laZardo

Besides which, at least you didn't hire the Harlem Globetrotters. q:

Did you know the globetrotters have a draft every year?

221 tokyobk  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:04:22am

re: #30 American Jewess In Jerusalem

The chemicals that make a man want to tame Wall Street or hold elected office, or just get the corner office or letters after his name, are the same that make him want that spasm teixt the legs and in the brain. They can be tamed, but they go together.

222 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:04:42am

Hoops, I like THIS one....

223 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:05:11am

re: #222 Karridine

It works... sheesh!

:D

224 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:05:13am

re: #215 HoosierHoops

israeli b-ball is crap we have chicago high school teams that could beat them the futball is much better.

225 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:05:55am

re: #222 Karridine

Hoops, I like THIS one....

I like it too..can i use it?

226 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:07:20am

re: #225 HoosierHoops

I like it too..can i use it?

With my best wishes, of course! I created it for YOU, just now! :D

227 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:08:03am

re: #220 HoosierHoops

To be honest, that picture was actually that end result of a guy transforming into a lizard that I drew up after reading about that leaking nuclear sub. XD Oh well, it could work.

As for the Globetrotters, I guess they just want to try to look more "competitive." q:

/dinner, BBL

228 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:08:33am

re: #226 Karridine

With my best wishes, of course! I created it for YOU, just now! :D

thank you grasshopper

229 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:09:32am

re: #228 HoosierHoops

nononononono.... aargh! That's Carradine... no relation a tall, Hoops!

230 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:12:33am

Testing avatar

231 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:13:38am

Crap..charles said to see changes clear your cache..
I know how to spend it..but not clear it

232 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:14:36am

tried changing my avatar i don't have a clue how to do it i think it was an accident that i got it to work the first time.

233 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:15:04am

Hold down Shift, and click on the Refresh icon, of your browser

234 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:15:35am

re: #227 laZardo

OT:

Hey LaZardo, don't know if you caught this the other night but I live in Pasig and work in Ortigas Center. We should meet up sometime.

235 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:16:51am

test

236 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:17:43am

re: #118 RTLM

Almighty Supreme Being Allah Arrested in West Hartford, CT.

I guess the war is over now, once we've captured their top guy.

Good morning, LGF.

237 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:18:42am

re: #236 Dar ul Harb

got a link to that?

238 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:18:45am

re: #235 HoosierHoops

Not yet, Hoops...

239 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:20:00am

re: #235 HoosierHoops

Did you upload the new graphic to your Account on LGF?

240 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:21:01am

re: #235 HoosierHoops

Gee whiz, HH, I didn't mean to stir things up by complimenting you about your avatar.

Are you drinking Regular, or Decaf ?

241 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:22:24am

re: #236 Dar ul Harb

This must mean Bin Laden's really dead, or we'd have found him already. After all, up until now, nobody could even prove Allah really existed, and we caught him!

242 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:23:56am

re: #241 Dar ul Harb


Maybe he's a body double ...

243 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:24:27am

re: #240 RedPepper

Gee whiz, HH, I didn't mean to stir things up by complimenting you about your avatar.

Are you drinking Regular, or Decaf ?

hahaha it's cool.. I've been up all night watching the olympics..
Decaf isn't even in the discussion...Probably should take a nap.
I normally swim laps at 6am every morning....feeling just a tad bit guilty right now..

244 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:25:13am

re: #239 Karridine

Did you upload the new graphic to your Account on LGF?

yes..gonna try again
freaking lazy hampsters

245 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:29:31am

re: #243 HoosierHoops

All nighter here also. One thing has just led to another ...

Right now I'm trying to figure out why my (audio) CD player is suddenly having read errors.

Isn't technology fun !

/

246 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:30:07am

test
( don't make me come over there hamsters)

247 yochanan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:32:09am

re: #246 HoosierHoops

hamster version of 'magic chicken'?

248 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:33:27am

re: #234 Oh no...Sand People!

(back from dinner)

HFS. o: Didn't know that.

249 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:33:47am

re: #242 RedPepper

You just gotta wonder what Allah was doing in West Hartford, CT with a bunch of cocaine, though. Raising money for the next big attack, I guess.

Must be getting hard for him to find competent help these days.

250 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:34:48am

re: #248 laZardo

Just moved here in June. Hot...sweaty...hot...humid...rainy.

251 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:35:03am

re: #247 yochanan

hamster version of 'magic chicken'?

LOL
last week i was going to lunch and said i was oing for the blacken chicken when somebody posted the magic chicken link.
/ i ended up ordering the tuna melt
:)

252 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:36:54am

re: #249 Dar ul Harb

You just gotta wonder what Allah was doing in West Hartford, CT with a bunch of cocaine, though.

Looking for a hot six-year-old, perhaps ?

253 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:40:02am

re: #250 Oh no...Sand People!

You'll get used to it after a while. >_> The rain brings some pretty cool breezes but there's so much roadwork going on around my college these days that one time the only places I could walk through were ankle-deep.

254 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:41:30am

re: #251 HoosierHoops

That's why it isn't a always a good idea to take a look in the kitchen to see whats cooking. Some times ignorance is bliss.

255 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:43:23am

re: #252 RedPepper

Looking for a hot six-year-old, perhaps ?

Nah, you're getting Allah confused with Mohammed. But it's understandable, considering that whatever it was ol' Mo wanted to do, Allah would always back him up.

If Allah's looking for anyone right now, I'd say it's the Mahdi.

256 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:44:14am

re: #255 Dar ul Harb

Or his lawyer.

257 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:46:02am

Hoosier, check in your browser's Tools/Options menu... there's a place there for clearing your cache... Or on the Tools menu itself, something like "Clear Private Data"...

258 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:46:32am

That story is a comedy gold mine, I think...

259 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:48:30am

re: #253 laZardo

True. I don't sweat as bad now...

Well, later all. Gotta multi task my productivity.

260 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:48:41am

re: #255 Dar ul Harb

Nah, you're getting Allah confused with Mohammed.

They always seemed to me to have the same interests, frankly.

In fact, you could almost say that they often seem to be the same guy.

But that's just my impression, I could be wrong ...

261 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:48:49am

re: #258 Dar ul Harb

That story is a comedy gold mine, I think...


Not as good as what Jay leno is going to give John Edwards Monday night...

262 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:49:41am

re: #259 Oh no...Sand People!

Cheers.

263 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:50:46am

What if Al Franken held an event and no one came?

Okay, one person showed up . . .

264 little blessing  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:55:11am

G'day Everyone.

I'm turning in for the night.

/Go Opals!

265 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:57:22am

Night little blessing. And I am going to have to sign off as well. Monthly fire training going on soon and I have to run it. So see all you lizards later.

Stay scaly.

266 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 4:57:25am

re: #263 Wyatt Earp

What if Al Franken held an event and no one came?

Okay, one person showed up . . .

RE: your post on Clay Aikins.. the answer is #1 please don't tell anyone. paparazzi suk!

267 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:01:15am

re: #264 little blessing

re: #266 HoosierHoops

Bless you, little one. Vaya con Dios.

You too, Blue.

268 RedPepper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:04:26am

re: #267 RedPepper

Oops! Clicked on the wrong reply ...

/(come to think of it tho, you still look pretty blue too, HH ...)

269 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:15:40am

Posted a video in the spinoff section. It's the ad for the new Nissan Tiida (Versa in the US) that the Saudis are calling "racist" and threatening a boycott over.

It's also in Hebrew...anybody got a translation?

270 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:30:49am

Good morning, Lizards!

Lizard Prayer List 8/9/08

Prayers for thanks, praise, comfort, strength, healing, and hope

Seeking Updates
Many thanks to Ben Z and Cap'n Doc for starting this.

Thanksgivings
Ezra Levant: suit dismissed
GeeWiz: granddaughter Avery is home and well

Health issues:

jorline: scleritis (eye disease), which is caused by something else, in most cases rheumatoid arthritis; father who has colon cancer
realwest: dental issues, leg pain, cancer; mom Type II diabetes
Empire1: out of the hospital after suffering a stroke; praying for a full recovery.
Dolphin: friend Stan, open heart surgery
AKAK: Parkinson’s diagnosis confirmed
eaglewingz08: intestinal cancer; has bad case of Grave’s disease, thyroid disorder
Vxbush: being tested for wheat allergy
MigueldowninMexico: recovering from stroke
Noamsayin: niece and dad battling cancer
Truck Monkey: Brady (11-year-old with brain cancer who is on the football team he coaches)
Shaky Louie: chronic pancriatitis, and an (as yet) undiagnosed liver problem.
loppyd: step-father undergoing treatment for colon cancer
Macker: health issues and treatment
newsjunkie_ky: Step-Dad
Sarah: dad (cancer);
Zonie: cancer and renal failure
Pro-Bush Canuck: sister’s illness
LanceKates: dad’s continued recovery from surgery
Tarkus289: father is in hospital; may have pneumonia after two strokes and stage 7 Alzheimer'
kcladderman: father’s throat cancer; just finisher second round of radiation
Clutch: 82-year-old mom’s recovery from eye surgery
BBev: wife’s illness and great pain; facing another surgery
Kenneth: beloved daughter "M" serious chronic illness.
Cartman: liver and other health problems
Irene NYC: mom’s cancer
BenZacharia: wifffeee’s recovery from surgery
USMC1968: cancer

Family, friend, and life situations:
Mars Needs Neocons: job
Jcm: best result for new foster daughter
Pvt Bin Jammin: best friend’s passing
Josephine: painful loss
Vxbush: daughter traveling overseas
Jammiewearingfool: sister’s passing
Typicalwhitey: family & neighbors dealing with flooding
CoCo: mother paralyzed (due to strokes) and is now having new health problems
David Simon: mom (Alzheimer's)
Sarah: and her husband in the process of moving to Arizona for husband’s schooling
Intrepid: Mom has Alzheimer's and Intrepid is caretaker
wolfie: nephew (USAR) who is being sent into the thick of things in Iraq.
conservgirl: atheist SPM, that he finds the Lord
Lizards with family issues
Hayseed: extended family challenges
Maximus: son reports for active duty in August.
Noraono: colleagues laid off in building industry
antiislamist: in need of prayers
lone_wolf_in_illinois: friends and family in Israel
GotC: EH/kids; losing cousin and aunt within 4 months
Danger close: general
zulubaby, Carl in Jerusalem, Mr Pol, Golden Jerusalem, basically all the minion in eretz Yisrael
noam sayin': comfort for a lost brother
DorianGrey: much sorrow
Buckeye Abroad: in the belly of the beast of Eurabia
ChildOfMary: job for hubby and health for self
nonic: general
yank in EU: general
MdiM: general
Suzette: general

Community issues:
Those dealing with the flooding in the Midwest
Gilad Schalit, for his release.
The contractors still held hostage
Brian at Snapped Shot: for justice

271 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:33:10am

re: #270 goddessoftheclassroom

Morning, goddess!

Thinking of adding Georgia/Ossetia to the list?

272 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:34:12am

re: #269 laZardo

This was discussed in the Bin Laden's Driver convicted thread by Ping Jockey. Some translated the audio in later links. I will see if I can find it. brb

273 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:34:12am

re: #271 laZardo

Morning, goddess!

Thinking of adding Georgia/Ossetia to the list?

Thank you--done.

274 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:34:59am

Morning goddess. Welcome to the really dead thread.

275 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:35:56am

re: #274 Bubblehead II

Morning goddess. Welcome to the really dead thread.

{Bubblehead II}

But this is where all the real fun is!

276 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:41:05am

Good morning all y'all - from a humid and warm (73 degrees going up to 88 degrees before the T-Storms and heavy rains hit) and overcast day in Charlotte!
How is everyone this fine morning?!

277 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:41:19am

re: #275 goddessoftheclassroom

Some days. If you get here before the grave shift crashes for the night. I think we hit the dead zone between shifts today.

Sorry for the late reply, but am tab hopping between threads trying to find a link for Lazardo.

278 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:42:07am

re: #275 goddessoftheclassroom Good morning {goddess} hope you're doing well today!
On The List, could y'all delete "leg pain" from my name please?
Thank you!

279 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:42:15am

Morning realwest. Hows it going?

280 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:43:35am

re: #278 realwest

Good morning {goddess} hope you're doing well today!
On The List, could y'all delete "leg pain" from my name please?
Thank you!

{realwest}

Oh, I'm SO GLAD that's one problem gone!

281 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:46:15am

Lazardo, here is the translation. It was done by WriterMom

282 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:46:47am

re: #279 Bubblehead II
Eh, it's going - went to sleep REALLY ANGRY with some other LGFer's for the first time in the 4+ years I've been out here, so didn't sleep real well and yeah, my teeth still hurt.
How are you doing this morning?

283 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:47:31am

re: #280 goddessoftheclassroom Yeah, me too!

HOW ARE YOU doing this morning {goddess}?

284 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:48:49am

re: #276 realwest

Same ol, same ol...click the link in my #76 for something funny though. [:

285 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:50:06am

re: #282 realwest

Eh, it's going - went to sleep REALLY ANGRY with some other LGFer's for the first time in the 4+ years I've been out here, so didn't sleep real well and yeah, my teeth still hurt.
How are you doing this morning?

Brief summary? Or is email better?

286 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:50:33am

re: #281 Bubblehead II

Oooooh. No wonder they're seething. XD

287 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:51:10am

re: #283 realwest

Yeah, me too!

HOW ARE YOU doing this morning {goddess}?

I'm just fine, thanks! Leaving for a week's escape this afternoon--I'm so excited! My brother and s-i-l are joining us Wednesday.

288 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:51:20am

re: #284 laZardo Hey laZardo - didn't think it was THAT funny! Other than the fact that us Lizards have more muscles and longer, sharper claws, I thought that was pretty good (I know, I know, everyone's a critic!)!

289 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:51:45am

re: #282 realwest

Doing fine. Just waiting for the sun to come up so I can irritate my neighbors with the sounds of power tools and the scream of wood being cut. (evil cackle). Sorry that you still have problems with your teeth, didn't bring it up as I know that by now you're probably sick of being asked. As for your being angry, hanging out in the ID threads again? You know that the Surgeon General has found those to bad for your blood pressure didn't you? :-)

290 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:56:09am

re: #288 realwest

It's actually supposed to be the end result of a transformation. [: Too much exposure to LGF has that effect.

291 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 5:58:54am

re: #285 goddessoftheclassroom Nah, started on prior thread at around #368 and degenerated thereafter into the early 500's or so.
Just pissed off that so many other lizards were not willing to come to the aid of our democratically elected and run ally, Georgia. I mean, Georgia has
over 2,000 troops fighting alongside us in Iraq; we've been PUSHING NATO to get early admittence for Georgia, Poland, Romania and Czeckoslavkia are watching what happens before they agree to allow us to place the much needed anti-missle missle bases and radar sites in thier countries and lizards whom I formerly respected are saying "tough luck to Georgia". THen this morning I read wher the Russian's have stepped up their heavy bombing of Georgia and all Dubya can do is issue a strongly worded statement to Russia.
GACK! I can't keep focusing on this; the US is selling yet another ally down the drain.
That about answer your question? LOL!

292 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:00:49am

re: #287 goddessoftheclassroom A week? WHOA good for you {goddess}! Uh, where are all y'all going?

293 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:01:07am

re: #291 realwest

McCain was pretty pissed about that too. The link's above somewhere, he also mentioned that the U.S. is allowing the Georgian troops to head back home to defend their country.

294 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:01:17am

re: #291 realwest

Nah, started on prior thread at around #368 and degenerated thereafter into the early 500's or so.
Just pissed off that so many other lizards were not willing to come to the aid of our democratically elected and run ally, Georgia. I mean, Georgia has
over 2,000 troops fighting alongside us in Iraq; we've been PUSHING NATO to get early admittence for Georgia, Poland, Romania and Czeckoslavkia are watching what happens before they agree to allow us to place the much needed anti-missle missle bases and radar sites in thier countries and lizards whom I formerly respected are saying "tough luck to Georgia". THen this morning I read wher the Russian's have stepped up their heavy bombing of Georgia and all Dubya can do is issue a strongly worded statement to Russia.
GACK! I can't keep focusing on this; the US is selling yet another ally down the drain.
That about answer your question? LOL!

Yep, that covers it!
Got to get to church on time...take care, Lizards!

295 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:02:17am

re: #289 Bubblehead II
Nope, don't hang out in ID threads anymore - just gets the ole BP rising.

296 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:02:44am

re: #292 realwest

A week? WHOA good for you {goddess}! Uh, where are all y'all going?

[Link: nemacolin.com...]

297 lori lane  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:04:21am

re: #270 goddessoftheclassroom

This is the first time I've seen the LGF prayer list. God bless you for doing this. {goddessoftheclassroom}

298 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:04:42am

I do NOT speak Hebrew, but I'm pretty good a speaking advertising, and I think the Tiida commercial is saying, "We're Saudis who export oil, and this car doesn't burn enough GAS!"

Of course, the Saudis look like greedy... uh, Saudis...

...so the Kingdom MUST boycott the car. Draw a lot of free attention to it. You know, real "I-dont-know-how-well-this was-thought-out!" stuff...

299 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:04:51am

re: #293 laZardo Yeah, that's big of us isn't it - "letting" the 2,000 Georgian troops head home? I'd a flown them in, in US aircraft and to protect those US aircraft, sent a lotta US Fighters and Fighter Bombers as well, in case the Russian bombers "accidentally" got in the way.

300 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:05:49am

re: #296 goddessoftheclassroom Oooh! NIce! I sure hope you have a GREAT TIME!

301 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:06:13am

re: #299 realwest

Second THAT! Good plan!

302 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:06:54am

re: #299 realwest

Talk about starting World War III though...

303 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:12:32am

re: #299 realwest

Come to think about it though...I don't think they'll be walking all the way from Iraq there... (;

304 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:13:31am

re: #302 laZardo Well if Russia wants to start WWIII there's not much we can do about it - if y'all look in the spinoff links, I just added another one about Russia expanding it's bombing to the capital of Georgia, and Ukraine warned Russia on Sunday it could bar Russian navy ships from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast.
Russian jets have been roaming Georgia's skies since Friday. They raided several air bases and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.
So what is the U.S. supposed to do? Suppose instead of the Democratic Republic of Georgia we were talking about the Russians and ISRAEL? Hmmm?
AFAIC, you either stand by your allies or you'll shortly have NO allies.

305 StinkHammer  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:16:27am

Saw quite a few McCain campaign TV ads during the Olympics broadcast last night. It was a nice change from the barrage of Obama commercials that I'd been subjected to earlier in the day.

306 Attaboid  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:16:57am

Israel should use this "window" and cripple Iran's nuclear facilities.

307 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:17:19am
308 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:18:17am

re: #299 realwest

Along with all their "new" equipment. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. At best we will offer them intelligence information on troop/armor placement, but I have a sick feeling that we will not even provide them with that much. This administration probably considers this to be a European problem and a distraction from the gwot. Unfortunately, this is going to hurt us just as much as ignoring the rise of radical islam did. A hostile Russian republic controlling much of the European energy supply isn't a good thing in anybodies book, except Russia's

309 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:19:41am

re: #304 realwest

Honestly...I have no idea. This is THE RUSSIA we're talking about.

310 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:23:42am

re: #308 Bubblehead II
Not to mention Russia's coming assault on the Ukraine (again, see spin-off links) which has threatened Russia with denying access to the Russian Navy from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast. And Urkraine is a LOT larger than Georgia and rightfully earned it's nickname as the breadbasket of the old USSR.
It's not a European matter, either,as we've been pushing for early admittance to NATO for Georgia and we NEED Poland and Romania (I think) for that Anti-missile missle system to protect, Israel and Europe from any Iranian missle attacks.

311 laZardo  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:24:34am

Gonna get myself a drink. In the meantime I chucked another one into the Spinoff section, this time on buying video games in Saudi Arabia that the authorities consider "blasphemous."

/the "side effects" of all that Western money, perhaps?

312 Captain Hate  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:26:20am

Watching that moron Dickless Durbin on FNS is making my head hurt.

313 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:26:48am

GACK! I just can't talk about this anymore; that we'd allow another democracy to fall victim to the Russian (largely toothless in conventional warfare capacity against us), much less a democracy that has supported US with a large contingent (for it's relatively small size) of troops in Iraq, is more than I can stand.

314 Steffan  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:27:33am

Let's hear it for nationalized health care.

If Obama and the Dems get their way, we could get this:


Kidney patients denied 'too expensive' life-extending drugs

Cancer patients are to be denied drugs which could keep them alive after the NHS rationing watchdog ruled that they are too expensive.

Patient groups said the decision, announced today by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice), would condemn many sufferers of kidney cancer to an "early death".

The four prohibited medicines include Sutent, which can prolong life in kidney cancer patients by up to two years. The draft guidance also rejects Avastin, Nexavar and Torisel.

Nice said the drugs were too expensive, at about £24,000 a year per patient, for the benefits they offered and would mean the health service was less able to afford more cost-effective drugs for other illnesses. However, the decision reignites the debate around how the NHS prioritises which drugs are approved for use.

It comes just a week after Andrew Dillon, the chief executive of Nice, said smokers and the obese should not be denied NHS medication because of their lifestyle.

Following Nice's latest decision, one surgeon said there would be no point in accepting kidney cancer patients if he was not able to prescribe Sutent because so few respond to other treatments.

And the Dems like this plan so much they want to inflict it on us. Certainly nice of them.

315 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:32:47am

re: #308 Bubblehead II

re: #310 realwest

Well, if we're going to worry about all that, let's also throw in the impending demographic/cultural collapses that will soon affect both Russia and the EU!

What a terrific prospect! Like two skulls grinning at each other ...

317 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:36:30am

re: #312 Captain Hate
Pssssst - turn it off! LOL!
Good morning to you!

318 lawhawk  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:37:32am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The war in South Ossetia continues intensifying, and the Russians are sending their Black Sea fleet to join the fight as well. The Russians have apparently been planning this for some time, and it's important to note that they're not just doing this to impose dominion over South Ossetia, but to control Georgia's oil (and put the hurt on European oil supplies).

Also, the Russian military doctrine considers civilians to be nothing more than targets. Instead of engaging in pinpoint strikes, the Russians are engaging in widespread attacks and civilian casualties are mounting.

319 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:37:56am

Good morning lizards.

If I were W, I'd be royally pissed at Saakashvili. He's like a younger brother who just had to pick a fight with the biggest local tough. Now the bad guy is wailing on him, and there's all this cleanup. Just great.

Saak fired on the Ossetian separatists. Russia, just waiting for the chance to gobble up more strategic territory, was well-prepared to defend the Ossetians -- and then do more. Why did Saak think this was even remotely a good time to take on Russia?

320 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:38:10am

re: #316 Ojoe Good morning Ojoe! Thanks for that calming Tower Cam shot!
And, unfortunately I've already eaten!
And wth, only FOUR Harley's for McCain?!

321 Aylios  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:39:51am

re: #308 Bubblehead II

Along with all their "new" equipment. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. At best we will offer them intelligence information on troop/armor placement, but I have a sick feeling that we will not even provide them with that much. This administration probably considers this to be a European problem and a distraction from the gwot. Unfortunately, this is going to hurt us just as much as ignoring the rise of radical islam did. A hostile Russian republic controlling much of the European energy supply isn't a good thing in anybodies book, except Russia's


Well, Russia would be a lot less 'hostile' if we don't meddle too much in affairs concerning it and one of the former Republics.

I don't see this conflict as a clear-cut issue, far from it. There are just as many arguments justifying Russia's stance on this as there are justifying Georgia's. I've also always had the feeling that Putin gets demonised almost as much as president Bush always has been, while Putin and Medvedev both strike me as intelligent and level-headed guys. Hardnosed, for sure, but I don't think they have much choice.

I hope the US doesn't let itself get sucked into this. The US is better off staying on good terms with Russia, than remaking her into an enemy. I'm far more worried about China.

322 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:41:17am

re: #318 lawhawk Good morning my friend! As I said very early this morning, and then again latert this morning, I just can't talk about this anymore cause WE, the United States of America, aren't gonna do a damn thing to help our democratic ally, Georgia, who has sent over 2,000 combat troops into Iraq to fight alongside us.

323 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:42:59am
324 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:43:39am

re: #322 realwest

We can bandage the many wounds they'll soon be licking.

325 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:44:26am

re: #319 godfrey

Huh, do you think the the Ossetian separatists Saak fired on were right? I mean, was it legal for them to seperate the bonds with Georgia or was it Fort Sumter, S.C. in 1860 all over again?

326 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:44:34am

re: #319 godfrey


If I were W, I'd be royally pissed at Saakashvili.

Understandable sentiment. Georgia showed really poor judgement in their attack on the 8th... and yes obviously the Russians had really good intel and knew exactly what was going down.

327 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:46:59am

re: #325 realwest

The problem with the US complaining about secessionists is that we seem to be highly selective about that issue. We support it in the Balkans, and on a few other occasions too.

328 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:47:55am

re: #322 realwest

Ah, but once Lightworker™ is POTUS, all these minor annoyances will disappear! Who needs allies, anyway! Who needs a military, even! The worn-out politics of the past!

What, me worry ? ! ?

329 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:48:21am
330 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:49:59am

re: #321 Aylios
"I don't see this conflict as a clear-cut issue, far from it. There are just as many arguments justifying Russia's stance on this as there are justifying Georgia's."
Didja check out the spin-off links yet today? Russia is or rather has expanded it's operations to bombing the capital of Georgia and is sending it's Black Sea Fleet to Georgia AND the Ukraine may just refuse to allow said fleet to return to it's bases in the Crimea over what the Ukraine see's as an over-use of power on one of it's democractic neighbors/allies by Russia?
Well hell, why not allow Russia to "reclaim" all of its now independent and democratic "states" to reform the Russian Federation. Then they can go after Poland and etc. You don't stop a bully by talking nice to it, you give it a clear "slap in the face" to make it stop it's bullying ways with your friends and allies!

331 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:51:50am

re: #329 taxfreekiller
Morning TFK! Ya know you and I may be the last old-timers out here who vividly remember all that!
Shame, really, that each generation has to learn it all over again for itself.

332 akak  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:51:51am

Russian general injured in the fighting, what a shame!

333 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:52:14am
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

Charles,

(one lizard's appreciation) I come in LOOKING for these quotes! Thank you!

334 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:53:34am

re: #325 realwest

I don't know enough to have a strong opinion. From what I know, Ossetians sit right astride the Caucasus, some in "Georgia," some in "Russia." Neither fish nor fowl. Most speak Russian and feel most closely tied with Russia. They have long cultural memories.

I wonder how good Georgia had been to the South Ossetians, who were, like Georgians, living in the valley just some 60 miles from Tbilisi. How well were they integrated into a "Georgian federation"? Were they made to see that it was in their better long-term interest to be part of the Valley of the Pipeline, or not?

The secessionist tendencies could've been forked. A stronger federation could've happened. It didn't. Saakashvili resorted to force, which was just what Putin was waiting for.

335 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:53:55am

re: #318 lawhawk

Pointed out the energy angle in #308. One can only hope that the EU will actually realize the strategic advantage this will give Russia both politically and militarily if they succeed in wresting the contested territories from the Georgian's and actually step up to the plate and do something. Unfortunately, I think they will do what they have always done and that is cry and whine for the U.S. to step in and clean up the mess and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

336 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:54:43am

re: #330 realwest

"I don't see this conflict as a clear-cut issue, far from it. There are just as many arguments justifying Russia's stance on this as there are justifying Georgia's."
Didja check out the spin-off links yet today? Russia is or rather has expanded it's operations to bombing the capital of Georgia and is sending it's Black Sea Fleet to Georgia AND the Ukraine may just refuse to allow said fleet to return to it's bases in the Crimea over what the Ukraine see's as an over-use of power on one of it's democractic neighbors/allies by Russia?
Well hell, why not allow Russia to "reclaim" all of its now independent and democratic "states" to reform the Russian Federation. Then they can go after Poland and etc. You don't stop a bully by talking nice to it, you give it a clear "slap in the face" to make it stop it's bullying ways with your friends and allies!

Morning realwest, You do realize that Russia is doing this because they believe the US is spread to thin in Iraq and Afghanistan to actually do anything about it right? This represents a complex chess move, Russia is saying, you move against Iran and we gobble up our old satellites.

337 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:55:32am

re: #327 freetoken Well we may very well be selective, but don't forget just a couple of points:
a) long before this shit started with Russia bombing Georgian cities, Georgia sent 2,000 troops to ally with the U.S. in Iraq and
b) the U.S. has been pushing - before Russian got into bombing cities and civilians in the Democratic Republic of Georgia, the U.S. had asked NATO to expeditiously accept the Democratic Republic of Georgia as a full member of NATO.
Don't recall us doing that with any of Baltic nations.

338 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:56:10am

re: #330 realwest

Realwest, as to what the US does now, that's different. One, we need to bandage up Georgia. Two, we need to confront the bear.

We are a bigger, badder, fiercer bear. And right now, they need to feel it.

339 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:58:24am

re: #330 realwest

Well hell, why not allow Russia to "reclaim" all of its now independent and democratic "states" to reform the Russian Federation. Then they can go after Poland and etc.

A fine idea! Let's unite all the Slavic peoples across the board! And don't forget the Serbs, while we're at it!

Haven't we seen this movie before ? It seems eerily familiar ...

/

340 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:58:39am

The EUnuchs can help by cutting financial ties.

They could buy more of our oil, perhaps, and not Russia's.

Do what they can, in short.

341 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:59:05am

re: #334 godfrey
Godfrey - I frankly don't give a shit - RIGHT NOW Russia is bombing cities in Georgia and killing civilians by the scores (it'd be more, but Russia's air force and bombing capabilities just aren't up to snuff these days) - NOTHING can justify that action by Russia. NOTHING.

342 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:59:09am

Replacing the Irreplaceable Worth reading this beautiful morning. Don't stop reading when the author cites Tom Lantos. There is a payoff at the end.

343 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 6:59:44am
344 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:00:29am

Real, I'm not justifying Russia. As I said, Russia was waiting for the opportunity. They're much worse.

345 akak  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:01:16am

What's up with the US troops there? 1000 or 150?

The 1000 reported earlier may have been from July training exercise with Poland, Azerbajain, Ukraine.

346 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:01:44am

re: #336 doriangrey
Oh yeah, I know that dorian my friend. I just don't believe Russia's perception is correct. IF the U.S. wanted to, it could own the skies over Georgia in less than 48 hours and you know that he who controls the airspace wins the war (although it will ultimately take a schmuck like me, carrying a rifle, to truly end it, but that ought to be a Georgian schmuck not a US one).

347 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:02:37am

re: #340 godfrey

The EUnuchs can help by cutting financial ties.

They could buy more of our oil, perhaps, and not Russia's.

Do what they can, in short.

In stead of standing up for what is right the Europussies will be spreading the K-Y jelly all over their assholes and bending over...

348 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:03:12am

re: #341 realwest

THAT, RW, is one of the difficulties to taking a nice, long, reasoned and reasonable look-see consideration of things: by tomorrow, they'll be considerably CHANGED, in this Day and Age!

We (Americans) have HOURS or MINUTES to decide on an effective, moral response!

HEY, GEORGE! Get up, and get going, Dubya!

349 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:03:40am

re: #343 taxfreekiller

Russia is doing this because they think we Americans are so stupid we will allow a commie to be elected Pres. and the commie Democrats to control our congress, thus they will have willing allies here within.

Why, tfk! What could possibly have given them that idea!

///

350 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:03:58am

re: #329 taxfreekiller

Russia ...

The will-to-power operating ...

Instead of humility and love which somehow the United States still manages to "cling" to, at least a little bit.

351 godfrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:05:44am

You're right, Karradine. Realwest and TFK, too. The question isn't academic, it's right now, and it's tough to keep a cool head and make a good decision under fire. This'll age W a few decades.

352 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:06:03am

re: #346 realwest

Oh yeah, I know that dorian my friend. I just don't believe Russia's perception is correct. IF the U.S. wanted to, it could own the skies over Georgia in less than 48 hours and you know that he who controls the airspace wins the war (although it will ultimately take a schmuck like me, carrying a rifle, to truly end it, but that ought to be a Georgian schmuck not a US one).

Well, if N Korean Missiles can inexplicable explode on their launch pads, Russian bombers could also inexplicable explode in mid air. I hate to say it, but we may just have to wait and see what happens.

353 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:07:03am
354 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:07:12am

re: #348 Karridine
Hey K - listen I gotta stop "talking" about this K !
I went to sleep ANGRY with a number of lizards for whom I used to have respect and a number of lizards I never heard of before for the very first time in 4+ years out here and I just can't afford the BP going any higher on this.
Dubya and the Dem's will do whatever they are gonna do, just wish they weren't going to surrender Georgia' democracy in the name of the United States of America.

355 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:08:00am

re: #314 Steffan

Let's hear it for nationalized health care.

If Obama and the Dems get their way, we could get this:

And the Dems like this plan so much they want to inflict it on us. Certainly nice of them.

The Dems, like socialist Europe and Canada - think human beings are expendable. We are all going to die anyway - the sick should die first - waiting in line for holy progressive bullshit health care. All under the guise of FAIRNESS.

Talk to most folks in Canada - THEY HATE THEIR SOCIALIZED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE "FOR EVERYONE". They absolutely HATE it.

356 freetoken  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:08:37am

Here is a Google translation of, supposedly, a soldier blogging from the area. Translated from Russian:

[Link: translate.google.com...]

357 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:09:10am

re: #355 FrogMarch

The Dems, like socialist Europe and Canada - think human beings are expendable. We are all going to die anyway - the sick should die first - waiting in line for holy progressive bullshit health care. All under the guise of FAIRNESS.

Talk to most folks in Canada - THEY HATE THEIR SOCIALIZED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE "FOR EVERYONE". They absolutely HATE it.

So - serious question - why don't the Canadians DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!

358 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:10:35am

Well it's time to go annoy the neighbors with loud power tools.

Watch that BP real and the rest of ya have a good day.

L8R

359 akak  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:11:59am

re: #357 realwest

So - serious question - why don't the Canadians DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!

It's like Pakistan & Iran, once they have it - no going back.

360 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:13:30am

re: #354 realwest

Georgia? Oh, I thought we were giving away a small, insignificant part of Czechoslovakia... to get 'Peace in Our Thyme!'

/relax, breathe, Brother... we do what we can!

You have something MORE we can do, suggest. We'll see if we can do it. But blowing a ring-gasket over something you CANNOT influence is counterproductive! Chill, Real

361 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:13:56am

re: #355 FrogMarch

Hey, you're preaching to the choir here. :)

As a member of a socialist health care system, I go to the hospital as little as possible. One point is I don't like waiting in the EMERGENCY room for hours, with honest to gosh emergencies.

/happened to me twice. :p

362 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:16:06am

re: #357 realwest

Because, it's regulated by beaucracy that is a behemoth. To change anything would require a tac nuke to get it moving. The minute you talk about pay as you go medical care the two leftist parties start screaming about the poor people that would be shoved to the side by the people with money. And of course all the dumb bunny people side with the leftists on this.

/makes me want to puke.

363 akak  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:16:17am

Ukraine threatens to bar Russian warships

[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

364 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:17:09am

re: #314 Steffan

Let's hear it for nationalized health care.

If Obama and the Dems get their way, we could get this:

And the Dems like this plan so much they want to inflict it on us. Certainly nice of them.

Furthermore - If McCain really wants to win this election - he needs to start revealing the horrors of "UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE". McCain must hammer out why nationalized socialized progressive universal "health care for everyone" -(whatever the neo-Marxists on the left are calling it to make it seem palpable) will bankrupt this nation and, force medial workers into lowered pay positions, force you and I into cattle-car style health care, force good doctors to leave the industry, put a damper on those who want to enter the field of medicine, kill research and development, and make it so that we all have to travel somewhere else to acquire life-saving drugs and operations.

365 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:18:04am

re: #357 realwest

So - serious question - why don't the Canadians DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!

Once the government takes over, it's hard to change back.

366 loflyer  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:20:29am

The USN could order three or four subs into the black sea to harass the Russian fleet, but that would place the US into a shooting war with the Russians when we badly need their help on sanctions against Iran. Unfortuantely, all we can do is provide talk and diplomacy to the Russians....

367 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:21:13am
368 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:21:54am

re: #362 BlueCanuck

Because, it's regulated by beaucracy that is a behemoth. To change anything would require a tac nuke to get it moving. The minute you talk about pay as you go medical care the two leftist parties start screaming about the poor people that would be shoved to the side by the people with money. And of course all the dumb bunny people side with the leftists on this.

/makes me want to puke.

That's exactly right. The left are masters at playing the bullshit "Two Americas" card. We should help the poor, but not at the expense of the entire medial system.

369 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:22:23am
370 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:22:29am

re: #365 FrogMarch

Once the government takes over, it's hard impossible to change back.

/Experience would suggest, at any rate.

371 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:22:38am

re: #363 akak Yep, put something in the spinoff links about this - well as part of a larger report about Russian/Georgia. Seems the Russian "navy" such as it is, was originally dispatched to make amphibious landings and open a "second front" in Georgia to which Ukraine took umbrage.
And Russia needs to be really careful here - Georgia is a smallish republic which happens to sit astride a vital way for oil/natural gas to get to Europe. Ukraine, OTOH, has been the breadbasket of the USSR and Russian can't really afford to lose that food supply.

372 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:24:14am

re: #365 FrogMarch
How's about the Canadian citizenry making changes in the Canadian government? I mean, IF the Canadians are really upset about this health care "system"?

373 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:26:58am
374 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:27:01am

re: #366 loflyer Hi there my friend! Uh, forget about sanctions. It's always been Iran's intention to develop nukes and they just don't care about sanctions.
And with Russia supplying Iran with Russia's second best anti-aircraft, anti-missle systems (though of course Russia tells the Iranians it's the Russians' best) I don't think we really want any more Russian assistance in dealing with Iran.

375 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:27:20am

Won't "the pipeline war" mean oil up $30 Monday morning, and the stock market down 1,000 points?

376 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:30:04am

re: #373 taxfreekiller
Yep, just like that! LOL! - the only problem is old son, you and I are too old mature to do it any longer and we have a generation + who have known virtually nothing but peace - at least until 9/11 and they know not what they don't do!

377 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:31:12am

re: #372 realwest

Unfortunately most Canadians look with pride at our National Healthcare System. *spit* The number of horror stories I have heard would suggest other wise. It would take a major change and would have to hold for at least 10 to 20 years for the new system to become ingrained like our current system is. With the number of Liberal governments we have elected over the years the chance of that happening is very small. Where Americans tend to elect a majority of Republican governments, we are on the other side of the scale.

378 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:32:38am
379 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:35:24am

re: #375 itellu3times

Won't "the pipeline war" mean oil up $30 Monday morning, and the stock market down 1,000 points?

The economic implications piqued my interest.

It seems to me that Georgia is an energy transporter, not a producer. So the immediate economic consequences are primarily an increase in Tranport rates (i.e., tanker daily rental rates). An increase in the price of the underlying commodity may occur, too, but that will be a secondary impact. I doubt that the secondary impact can cause a $30 jump in crude....but amybe a few bucks.

380 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:37:07am

re: #331 realwest

Morning TFK! Ya know you and I may be the last old-timers out here who vividly remember all that!
Shame, really, that each generation has to learn it all over again for itself.

No, you two are not the only old-timers here.
I remember Hungary 1956 (ok, I was in school then, but cried my eyes out), I remember Prague 1968, Poland in the 1980es ...
There was always a group inside which 'begged' the mighty Soviet Union to help them against the 'agressors'. And it was always those 'agressors' who were in the wrong ...
Today, we have exactly the same pattern in Georgia.
And, as with Hungary, I don't think we'll see anything except hand-wringing from either the USA or the EU or the UN.
I'm saddened and sickened about this all - and have to add that it does not bode well for Israel either.

381 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:38:00am

re: #377 BlueCanuck
Well that just sucks! OTOH, in about 10-20 years, Canadians, like Americans, media age will be over 50, iirc and then you may start to see permanent changes. Too late for those Canadians who will die to satisfy the beaucracy's number crunching ways, I'm afraid, but that's another story for another day.

382 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:39:02am

Good mornig Lizards. Sup Dawgs?
Illinois Senator Richard (I think of him as a dick) Durbin was just on with Chris Wallace. I believe that Durbin is co-chair of the Obama Campaign.
He was asked if he thought that a roll call of states is a good idea at the convention. His answer was really telling,'I do not want to speak to that, because I don't know what has been decided."
Question A, meet answer B.

383 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:39:51am

re: #372 realwest

How's about the Canadian citizenry making changes in the Canadian government? I mean, IF the Canadians are really upset about this health care "system"?

I'm almost certain that private health care providers are not allowed in Canada. However, I believe that they system is starting to crack. How ironic that in Canada- they are trying to get away from government controlled health care and we here in the US are racing towards it.

384 akak  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:40:37am

re: #381 realwest

Well that just sucks! OTOH, in about 10-20 years, Canadians, like Americans, media age will be over 50, iirc and then you may start to see permanent changes. Too late for those Canadians who will die to satisfy the beaucracy's number crunching ways, I'm afraid, but that's another story for another day.

If McCain had his way and fast tracked 20 million to their green card, it would be happening alot faster in the US. The electorate would be forever changed.

385 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:40:45am

re: #380 yma o hyd

I remember Hungary 1956

So do I, Guys!

I was with my father (SAC) in England, and we took in Hungarian refugees...

386 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:41:08am

re: #382 opnion

Side note - Ever since Durbin made the "Nazi" comments about Gitmo and I can't stand the sight of him.

387 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:41:13am

re: #379 Deafdog

The economic implications piqued my interest.

It seems to me that Georgia is an energy transporter, not a producer. So the immediate economic consequences are primarily an increase in Tranport rates (i.e., tanker daily rental rates). An increase in the price of the underlying commodity may occur, too, but that will be a secondary impact. I doubt that the secondary impact can cause a $30 jump in crude....but amybe a few bucks.

Blowing up the pipeline would impact supply, for days or weeks. Ongoing war might shut it down for longer.

Uncertainty roils the markets as much as actual supply.

The Russian move to control all oil moving towards Europe, might now be obvious enough to cause this all to escalate.

The direct effect on the US might be small, but on the world economy large, and the facts of the war, who knows.

388 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:41:15am
389 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:44:34am

re: #380 yma o hyd
Good afternoon to you! Geez, y'all better cool it with talk about Hungary, Prague and Poland, otherwise folks out here may start to think you're either a war monger or at least an agitator! LOL!
Yeah, I remember them too - remember the Berlin wall going up (although I actually believed, for about six months, that it was to keep Westerner's out of East Germany) and the photos (back when the MSM was more honest than it is now) of people being shot to death trying to get out from behind that wall.

390 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:45:49am

re: #380 yma o hyd

I'm saddened and sickened about this all - and have to add that it does not bode well for Israel either.

“You’ve betrayed Vietnam. Someday you’re going to sell out Taiwan. And we’re going to be around when you get tired of Israel.”

– Bashar al-Assad, to Henry Kissinger

391 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:46:29am

Mornin' all. Hope everyone is well. Was born after Prague. Remember Hungary and Poland. Was a Cold warrior from 1977 to 1997. The Bear hasn't changed its coat. IIRC, wasn't it some ethnic Germans hollering about Czechoslovakia that Hitler used as an excuse to invade?

392 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:46:52am
"Taking in my opponent’s performances is a little like watching a big summer blockbuster, and an hour in, realizing that all the best scenes were in the trailer you saw last fall."


-John McCain


oho!

393 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:46:52am

re: #385 Karridine

So do I, Guys!

I was with my father (SAC) in England, and we took in Hungarian refugees...

As I said - I was too little then to grasp what was really going on (Suez!), but cried my eyes out sitting at the radio, listening to the Hungarian fighters. I emptied my piggie bank for the collection for Hungarian refugees - was all of about a pound or so, in very small coins ...

Its the same pattern, all over again, with the West engaged somewhere else and not able to react immediately.
We should remind ourselves that the Russians have prepared for this, and planned for it - it didn't 'just happen'.

394 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:46:58am

re: #388 taxfreekiller
Well good for you TFK!
I'll uh, man the radio's back here. I've earned the right to be a REMF!

395 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:47:52am

re: #390 Temujin Great quote - do you have a link for that one?

396 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:48:25am

re: #387 itellu3times

Absolutely it would effect supply. Will the price of the commodity go up too? Yes. We agree on that. But the conflict does not effect reserves. So that will mute the impact on the cost of the commodity.

The rates of commodity transport (i.e. tankers) will go up much more.
Why, because the destruction of a major pipeling will directly increase in cost is in getting the oil/gas from its current location to its destination. All unused tankers will immediatly go into use at very high rates. If Europe has a SPR, they should tap into it (events like this underline the stupidity of the plan to release US SPR to impact price fluctuations).

397 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:51:18am

re: #393 yma o hyd Well my only point of disagreement with you would be the idea that the West (that is, the US, GB, Canada and Australia) are not able to react immediately.
Not with ground forces, but with naval forces and Navy and Marine Corps air power and Air Force air power.
But the political will is, alas, lacking.

398 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:51:24am

re: #396 Deafdog
Doesn't that pipeline supply Western Europe? So Putin will control the Natural Gas and oil supply to the feckless western europeans. Great. Jihadis on one side and the Bear on the other. Those folks over there better find another Churchill, or even a DeGaulle!

399 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:51:40am

re: #385 Karridine

re: #393 yma o hyd

Well I might be the youngest one in the room right now. But my math teacher in high school was a refugee from Hungary. Never said a thing about it, just taught math in his thick accent.

400 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:51:56am

re: #395 realwest

Sorry, realwest, but I don't. IIRC, Mark Steyn mentioned that quote in one of his columns - which is where I wrote it down from.

Chilling.

401 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:52:02am

re: #386 Deafdog

Side note - Ever since Durbin made the "Nazi" comments about Gitmo and I can't stand the sight of him.

Which is why he is a "Dick", not a Richard.

402 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:52:38am

re: #389 realwest

Good afternoon to you! Geez, y'all better cool it with talk about Hungary, Prague and Poland, otherwise folks out here may start to think you're either a war monger or at least an agitator! LOL!
Yeah, I remember them too - remember the Berlin wall going up (although I actually believed, for about six months, that it was to keep Westerner's out of East Germany) and the photos (back when the MSM was more honest than it is now) of people being shot to death trying to get out from behind that wall.

Gee - forgot about the Berlin Wall - that went up in August as well, didn't it?
As for being called a war monger - well, I'll just remember Churchill in his wilderness years. He knew that one has to stand up to bullies and was called war monger for it. We all know what happened next ...

Oh, and btw, I do have a tender spot for Georgians anyway: they are excellent rugby players, and did extremely well last year in the world Cup - and that with having only one rugby stadium! That is something we in this small, rugby-obsessed nation of ours do value very highly indeed. And like us, they are very good singers!

403 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:54:48am

re: #400 Temujin Chilling indeed - and don't sweat the link, just thought you mighta had it handy!

404 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:55:15am

re: #401 opnion

Which is why he is a "Dick", not a Richard.

He sort of looks like a giant Penis, too.

405 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:55:23am

re: #402 yma o hyd
Really? A Welshman complimenting someone elses rugby and singing skills? My wife will not be pleased. Y'all are the best singers and rugby players in the world according to her! She does like the All Blacks though, cause of their war dance!

406 Karridine  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:56:34am

You're just entering the Day Cycle, and I must depart for a lazy habit called 'sleep'...

Man the barricades!

407 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:57:00am

re: #398 pingjockey

Doesn't that pipeline supply Western Europe? So Putin will control the Natural Gas and oil supply to the feckless western europeans. Great. Jihadis on one side and the Bear on the other. Those folks over there better find another Churchill, or even a DeGaulle!

Fat chance!

Yes, indeed, Russia is exploiting the oil and gas dependency of Europe to the hilt, and has put into prison or exiled those who built these conglomerates after the fall of communism. They are now Putin- controlled - ahem, state controlled, and the Ukrainians ahve already felt the heavy hand of Putin on their gas supplies.
Winter is coming, gas prices have just been hiked by 35% here in GB (thats natural gas, not gasoline) - but there is no Churchill anywhere, never mind a De Gaulle.

408 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:57:09am

re: #397 realwest

Well my only point of disagreement with you would be the idea that the West (that is, the US, GB, Canada and Australia) are not able to react immediately.
Not with ground forces, but with naval forces and Navy and Marine Corps air power and Air Force air power.
But the political will is, alas, lacking.

Real, you are facing reality. Where would the ground forces come from?
This is an oil & land grab by Putin. He has often whined about the break up of the Soviet Union. In his KGB heart, you know that he would like to rebuild it.
If we were not involved in the WOT, I doubt that he would have pulled this.
But, if we attack Russian troops we have to accept possible all out war.

409 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:57:44am

re: #402 yma o hyd

As for being called a war monger - well, I'll just remember Churchill in his wilderness years. He knew that one has to stand up to bullies and was called war monger for it.

“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

-- Winston Churchill, in The Gathering Storm (1948), p. 348

410 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:57:55am

re: #404 Deafdog

He sort of looks like a giant Penis, too.

Yup, he calls his raincoat 'Trojan"

411 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:59:03am

re: #407 yma o hyd
Ya. I know, even The Iron Lady would be an improvement. My better half doesn't like her though cause of what she did in Wales with the coal industry. Margret Thatcher is not one of her favorite people.

412 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 7:59:10am

re: #402 yma o hyd Well I don't know about their singing, but do have a
former niece-in-law (?) who lived in Georgia for three years when it was part of the USSR and when she came back - about a year or so before the famous "tear down this wall" speech - said that the average Georgian was really pissed off at not being able to be their "Own" - as in country. And that it was a not uncommon sight to see Soviet tanks rolling - seemingly aimlessly - through the streets of the Georgian captial.

413 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:00:08am

Good Morning Lizards!

Drive-by morning post to wish you all a great day!

414 BlueCanuck  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:00:43am

re: #413 ggt

Good morning. Enjoy your day.

415 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:01:03am

What is it with news anchors and pink ties? Chris Wallace has one on.

416 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:01:35am

re: #397 realwest

Well my only point of disagreement with you would be the idea that the West (that is, the US, GB, Canada and Australia) are not able to react immediately.
Not with ground forces, but with naval forces and Navy and Marine Corps air power and Air Force air power.
But the political will is, alas, lacking.

I am struggling to think of circumstances that would make US involvement with direct intervention possible. When the US bombarded Bosnia, Clinton did not take the matter to Congress. He didn't go to congress, because Congress would never approve a military intervention in Europe. Not then, not now.

To an extent, Clinton's action in Bosnia creates a precedent for Bush. However, since GWB has committed forces several times already, I think he will need congressional authorization to move.

417 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:01:54am

re: #415 pingjockey

What is it with news anchors and pink ties? Chris Wallace has one on.

Some dude on ABC has one on.

418 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:03:46am

re: #410 opnion


LOL

419 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:03:57am

re: #417 opnion
I have a pink dress shirt. But, I played football, rugby and ride a HD. No one will flip me shit about it! Plus I have a black Looney Tunes tie my boys got me to go with it!

420 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:05:10am

re: #419 pingjockey

I have a pink dress shirt. But, I played football, rugby and ride a HD. No one will flip me shit about it! Plus I have a black Looney Tunes tie my boys got me to go with it!

ROTFLMAO..............Oink dress shirt... snicker snicker... Oh well, you were a bubblehead... lol...lol...707...

421 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:05:15am

re: #408 opnion I thought I was clear that I wasn't talking about our ground forces getting involved -and I don't think we'd need 'em to be. We control the skies,and the seas, the rest becomes solely Georgia's responsibilty.
And yes, I could very well be wrong about Russia's capacity for an "all out war" short of using nukes.
But ya know sometimes you have to remind yourself that freedom isn't free and that sometimes the cost of that freedom is very dear indeed.
Georgia has been a strong ally for the US, with something over 2,000 troops fighting on our side in Iraq. And Georgia, unlike Russia, is a democracy.
So where do you draw the line?

422 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:05:28am

re: #415 pingjockey

What is it with news anchors and pink ties? Chris Wallace has one on.

The better to hang them from lamp-posts with !

/(I keed! I keed ! !)

423 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:06:07am

re: #420 doriangrey
Not a bubble head DG! Mornin' to you to, you broken 'vette owner you.
:)

424 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:06:13am

re: #410 opnion
ROTFL!

425 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:06:17am

re: #419 pingjockey

I have a pink dress shirt. But, I played football, rugby and ride a HD. No one will flip me shit about it! Plus I have a black Looney Tunes tie my boys got me to go with it!

See us incredibly macho guys can pull it off. Right? I am right, right?

426 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:06:44am

re: #421 realwest

I thought I was clear that I wasn't talking about our ground forces getting involved -and I don't think we'd need 'em to be. We control the skies,and the seas, the rest becomes solely Georgia's responsibilty.
And yes, I could very well be wrong about Russia's capacity for an "all out war" short of using nukes.
But ya know sometimes you have to remind yourself that freedom isn't free and that sometimes the cost of that freedom is very dear indeed.
Georgia has been a strong ally for the US, with something over 2,000 troops fighting on our side in Iraq. And Georgia, unlike Russia, is a democracy.
So where do you draw the line?

Across Putin's Adams apple?

427 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:07:04am

re: #413 ggt Good morning ggt!

428 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:08:09am

re: #423 pingjockey

Not a bubble head DG! Mornin' to you to, you broken 'vette owner you.
:)

That's Mister broken 'vette owner who doesnt own a pink shirt to you SIR... ;Pfffffff

429 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:08:44am

re: #421 realwest

Real, I was agreening with your assessment. The first thing that I said is that you are facing reality.
How's the tooth?

430 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:08:51am

re: #425 opnion
Correct. But I look like a brick. No neck, Size 52 sports coat, 19 inch neck on the shirt. Can't but dress shirts off the rack. Heh.

431 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:08:55am

re: #421 realwest

Controlling the skies against Russia is a quite a bit bigger task than controlling the skies against Bosnia or the Taliban. I would vote no to that at this stage.

432 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:09:29am

re: #405 pingjockey

Really? A Welshman complimenting someone elses rugby and singing skills? My wife will not be pleased. Y'all are the best singers and rugby players in the world according to her! She does like the All Blacks though, cause of their war dance!

Ah - but thats the thing about rugby - one loves the game so much that one praises the skills (so they exist) of others. Soccer fans are always amazed when they see us old-fashioned rugby fans applaud a brilliant phase of a game even if one is on the receiving end.
(Mind - the English are always rubbish and need to be beaten, always!)

((That war dance is called The Haka - here is a good example!))

433 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:09:43am

re: #425 opnion

See us incredibly macho guys can pull it off. Right? I am right, right?

OK, you're right !

And what excuse do you suppose Chris Wallace will use?

434 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:09:51am

re: #428 doriangrey
It still isn't fixed? Day-um, sorry man.

435 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:10:08am

re: #430 pingjockey

Correct. But I look like a brick. No neck, Size 52 sports coat, 19 inch neck on the shirt. Can't but dress shirts off the rack. Heh.

Ya played ball, what position?

436 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:10:24am

re: #409 Temujin

“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

-- Winston Churchill, in The Gathering Storm (1948), p. 348

Exactly!

437 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:10:37am

re: #431 Deafdog

Controlling the skies against Russia is a quite a bit bigger task than controlling the skies against Bosnia or the Taliban. I would vote no to that at this stage.

Cough F22 Raptor cough... The skies already belong to us, the only question is do we wish to remind everyone of that fact...

438 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:11:13am

re: #433 Temujin

OK, you're right !

And what excuse do you suppose Chris Wallace will use?

I can't imagine, But think about this, Obama is afraid to sit down with him.

439 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:11:22am

re: #434 pingjockey

It still isn't fixed? Day-um, sorry man.

Maybe this afternoon, it's just been to damned hot to work on it the last couple of weekends...

440 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:12:17am

re: #437 doriangrey

Cough F22 Raptor cough... The skies already belong to us, the only question is do we wish to remind everyone of that fact...

Yes, the USAF would prevail, but at what cost?

441 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:12:39am

re: #438 opnion

I can't imagine, But think about this, Obama is afraid to sit down with him.

Guess that tells us a lot about O-man . . . doesn't it !

442 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:13:21am

re: #432 yma o hyd
Correct about the English. BTW, went to that WRL site, they are sold out until fall. Some non-believers had their jerseys on sale on e-bay for mucho dinero. The wife was pissed. "How can they sell their jerseys"? She said a couple of very bad words,(I assume) in welsh cause she wouldn't tell me what they were!

443 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:13:22am

re: #438 opnion

I can't imagine, But think about this, Obama is afraid to sit down with him.

But Bill Clinton gave him a "deer in the headlights" look.

444 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:13:49am

re: #441 Temujin

Guess that tells us a lot about O-man . . . doesn't it !

Nothing that I didn't know. The "One"can't think on his feet.

445 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:14:03am

re: #440 Deafdog

Yes, the USAF would prevail, but at what cost?

Depends entirely on how you choose to define cost. In terms of aircraft, ziltch, the repercussions on the other hand could be serious for our EUweenie friends.

446 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:14:22am

re: #435 opnion
Center, pulling guard and fullback. I think tha't why I don't have a neck.

447 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:14:45am

re: #416 Deafdog Well last time I checked, the "War-Powers" legislation was still in effect and that gives the POTUS the right to send US Military Forces anywhere in the World to do his bidding, WITHOUT Congressional approval, for up to 90 days.
I think this is a push/ploy by Russia and that they would STOP bombing Georgian cities (and they don't use "precision" bombs or "smart" bombs, they just let the destruction sort of spread all over the effin' place, including mostly to civilians). But I could be wrong about that.
But it's still a question of whether or not you do what you can to assist an ally under attack from a country which is clearly NOT an ally.

448 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:14:48am

re: #443 Deafdog

But Bill Clinton gave him a "deer in the headlights" look.

That was like an assault without battery.

449 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:15:14am

re: #411 pingjockey

Ya. I know, even The Iron Lady would be an improvement. My better half doesn't like her though cause of what she did in Wales with the coal industry. Margret Thatcher is not one of her favorite people.

No - in Wales she is regarded as the worst ever Prime Minister. But that is because the Welsh in their majority are strict Labour people.
Sadly, they have forgotten what a terrible, low-paid and dangerous job coal mining was, and they have forgotten above all that the leader of the miners' strike, Arthur scargill, was a closet communist who thought he could demolish Maggie by that strike. Well, it worked a few years before that with the then Labour government, didn't it ...
Unfortunately, we're now back to just such a situation where the Trade Unions think they can get what they want by threatening the Labour government with strike actions.
The Left never learns ...

450 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:15:15am

re: #446 pingjockey

Center, pulling guard and fullback. I think tha't why I don't have a neck.

I suspect you dont have a neck because the cheeseburgers and beers had to go somewhere.... ;P

451 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:15:50am

re: #444 opnion

Nothing that I didn't know. The "One"can't think on his feet.

He can't think on his bum, either, near as i can see!

452 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:16:31am

re: #446 pingjockey

Center, pulling guard and fullback. I think tha't why I don't have a neck.

Hey, I was a fullback. We actually played a prison team once.
I will never forget it. We won the game, but all they wanted was a controlled brawl, & it was.

453 A. van Hilten  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:16:52am

Russian war crimes in all their splendor.

454 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:16:54am

re: #429 opnion The tooth is helping me face reality! LOL! Ouch!

455 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:17:17am

re: #451 Temujin

He can't think on his bum, either, near as i can see!

That is what he uses for brain storage.

456 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:17:43am

re: #447 realwest
It boils down to the politcal will. Does GW want to get into a shooting scrape with the Russians? And, if we don't help the Georgians what message do we send the Europeans? Lotsa damn angles in this mess. Which I'm sure Putin weighed very carefully before this invasion.

457 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:17:53am

re: #431 Deafdog I'm sure you would.

458 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:18:49am

re: #454 realwest

The tooth is helping me face reality! LOL! Ouch!

I can't believe that they are dragging it out like this.
But hey good news, I still have my plyers & I can be there in about 12 hours?

459 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:19:26am

re: #450 doriangrey
You sir are cruisin' for a bruisin'! It is a good thing you live in my 2nd favorite place or I would have to insult you some more!

460 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:19:55am

re: #456 pingjockey

It boils down to the politcal will. Does GW want to get into a shooting scrape with the Russians? And, if we don't help the Georgians what message do we send the Europeans? Lotsa damn angles in this mess. Which I'm sure Putin weighed very carefully before this invasion.

Bingo! We have a winner! Putin gave us a hobson's choice.

461 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:20:12am

re: #457 realwest

I'm sure you would.

Where as I on the other hand see no problem with sending in a squadron of F22's and B2's late at night. Nobody can see them, nobody can hear them and nobody can prove they were actually there...

462 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:20:41am

Goddamn Dick Turbin. It is none of your business what a company does with its profits!

463 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:20:57am

re: #425 opnion

See us incredibly macho guys can pull it off. Right? I am right, right?

Absolutely!
Wanna example from rugby? One of the best French clubs plays in this outfit ...

464 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:21:46am

re: #459 pingjockey

You sir are cruisin' for a bruisin'! It is a good thing you live in my 2nd favorite place or I would have to insult you some more!

Netter netter netter... ;P :)

465 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:22:35am

re: #445 doriangrey

Depends entirely on how you choose to define cost. In terms of aircraft, ziltch, the repercussions on the other hand could be serious for our EUweenie friends.

I was defining costs as total operational costs, including aircraft lost. I think that you would need to factor in a loss of 1 or 2 due to lucky shots or malfunctions. The Raptors are expensive, but that's not the biggest cost. You are basically advocating going to war against the Kremlin.

466 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:22:55am

re: #461 doriangrey
Now there's a thought. That monument to Murphys Law, aka the Pentagon has contingency plans for everything. The scenarios are being run right now. It boils down to what can we do and what will we do. They aren't always the same.

467 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:23:32am

The morning news programs are still talking about Edwards.
Think about it, 'Uh, yeah I had an affair with her but I am not the father. But we did party in a hotel room with the baby that is not mine." Well that sounds reasonable

468 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:24:07am

re: #442 pingjockey

Correct about the English. BTW, went to that WRL site, they are sold out until fall. Some non-believers had their jerseys on sale on e-bay for mucho dinero. The wife was pissed. "How can they sell their jerseys"? She said a couple of very bad words,(I assume) in welsh cause she wouldn't tell me what they were!

Sorry to hear that, there are some totally baad people who have no soul for rugby!
As Welsh isn't my native language I'm sorry I can't help with the translation of the swear words, but I'm sure they sounded really really sweary and frightening!

469 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:24:23am

re: #463 yma o hyd

Absolutely!
Wanna example from rugby? One of the best French clubs plays in this outfit ...

Won't open

470 dmandman  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:24:25am

re: #465 Deafdog

Well back in WW2 we had the Flying Tigers fighting Japan for China without us being in an official shooting war.

471 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:24:46am

re: #445 doriangrey
Cost you ask? Well -

Especially the last half.

472 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:25:03am

re: #465 Deafdog
Yep. What if Britain and France had stood up to Herr Hitler in 1938? The war would/ve still happened, but maybe the Allies would have had more time to build up their forces.

473 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:25:36am

re: #465 Deafdog

I was defining costs as total operational costs, including aircraft lost. I think that you would need to factor in a loss of 1 or 2 due to lucky shots or malfunctions. The Raptors are expensive, but that's not the biggest cost. You are basically advocating going to war against the Kremlin.

Technically speaking the Kremlin is already at war with us. Thats the thing about being someone ally. The whole concept of being someone ally is that if they are attacked you promise to come to their aid just as if you yourself had been attacked.

474 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:26:24am

re: #454 realwest

The tooth is helping me face reality! LOL! Ouch!

realwest, forgive my curiosity, but have you expressed your political opinions to your dentist (or whoever is providing care in this situation)?

/And have you asked them about their politics?

475 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:26:31am

re: #468 yma o hyd
About as bad as any Eastern European language. I know some Russian swear words and they'll peel paint!

476 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:27:20am

re: #469 opnion

Won't open

Gah - opens for me ... how about this one?

477 lori lane  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:28:17am
478 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:28:45am

re: #472 pingjockey

Yep. What if Britain and France had stood up to Herr Hitler in 1938? The war would/ve still happened, but maybe the Allies would have had more time to build up their forces.

Should've stood up in 1936 when Hitler went into the Rhineland - but the French, who were still occupying it after the Treaty of Versailles, just walked away ...

479 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:28:57am

re: #473 doriangrey

Technically speaking the Kremlin is already at war with us. Thats the thing about being someone ally. The whole concept of being someone ally is that if they are attacked you promise to come to their aid just as if you yourself had been attacked.

That begs the question, what type of aid? I believe in order to assure military assistance in the form of troops &/or air support etc.., there needs to be a mutual defense treaty.
Here we are faced with a decision.

480 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:29:25am

re: #477 lori lane Didn't read the about part. Is he a doctor?

481 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:29:39am

re: #476 yma o hyd

Gah - opens for me ... how about this one?

Thank you, that got it. Fabulous!

482 lori lane  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:30:28am

re: #480 pingjockey

Didn't read the about part. Is he a doctor?

Yes, a family physician. I've met him.

483 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:30:35am

re: #465 Deafdog
"You are basically advocating going to war against the Kremlin who has attacked a US ally far beyond any and all provocations, including Russia's killing of civilians and bombing of cities."
Is probably more in line with what doriangrey is thinking - and certainly more in line with what I'm thinking.
There really are SOME THINGS worth fighting for.
Democracy (freedom) and standing by an ally are two of 'em.

484 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:30:48am

re: #478 yma o hyd
That was the other one. Couldn't remember Rhineland from Sudentland.

485 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:31:01am

re: #447 realwest

Agreed that the War Powers resolution gives that authority. But I think Clinton stretched the limits of that law...in fact, I think Clinton's action in Bosnia without Congressional authority was the most egregious thing he did. It was the right thing to do, but implemented in a very questionalble maner. IMO, if GWB were to act under that provision, he needs to take the matter to congress while initiating the action...but I'm getting off topic.

At this stage, you need to consider options and consequences. It seems to me that a headlong rush into Georgia could escalate too quicker. A better first step, if that's the route we are going to go, is to install some good anti-aircraft equipment. Try to shoot the soviets down from the groud before we deploy aircraft.

486 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:31:17am

re: #477 lori lane

I hope this guy can beat Durbin!

Illinois is now really a Blue State. Abe Lincoln would have trouble.

487 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:31:32am

re: #481 opnion
Wow! Those are PINK unis. Big cajones to wear those.

488 lori lane  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:31:44am

re: #486 opnion

Illinois is now really a Blue State. Abe Lincoln would have trouble.

Yeah, I know he's definitely the underdog here.

489 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:31:45am

re: #425 opnion

See us incredibly macho guys can pull it off. Right? I am right, right?

AKA the "A Boy Named Sue" syndrome.

/

490 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:32:14am

re: #482 lori lane
Does he have a chance of beating the "Dick" head?

491 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:32:45am

re: #483 realwest

"You are basically advocating going to war against the Kremlin who has attacked a US ally far beyond any and all provocations, including Russia's killing of civilians and bombing of cities."
Is probably more in line with what doriangrey is thinking - and certainly more in line with what I'm thinking.
There really are SOME THINGS worth fighting for.
Democracy (freedom) and standing by an ally are two of 'em.


And add to that , Georgia is supporting us with 2,000 troops.

492 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:33:52am

Goddamn asshats. War in Georgia and the FNC panel is talking about the silky pony. Gaaaaah!

493 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:33:55am

re: #489 Temujin

AKA the "A Boy Named Sue" syndrome.

/

I thought that Johnny Cash was right. Life would not be easy.

494 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:34:06am

re: #474 Temujin
ROTFL! Yes I have talked to my dentist ( a moonbat, but a damned good dentist) and my Oral Surgeon (not a moonbat at all, but who is a primo Oral Surgeon and has pulled two other teeth of mine over the last 18 months) and the earliest I can get in to see the OS is August 27th - but it's ok, the pain only arises if I chew food on that side or GRIND MY TEETH. Ouch! LOL!

495 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:34:57am

re: #143 restitutor orbis

You should see the adulation being given to Uh-bama in Hawaii. Figures. He's right at home with the other racist, leftwing, peabrains that inhabit this hellish state
An idiot on an island of idiots......how fitting.

I don't doubt it. Most of my classmates from Punahou that I've talked to about the election are in the tank for the Obamahdi. With the exception of one, he is of Korean descent and his family fled North Korea so he doesn't like leftists much...

496 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:35:07am

re: #493 opnion
I'll bet nobody called John Wayne, Marion to his face. Heh.

497 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:35:33am

SUKHUMI, Georgia - Separatist forces in Georgia's breakaway province of Abkhazia launched air and artillery strikes to drive Georgian troops from their bridgehead in the region, officials said.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said later Saturday that Georgian forces rebuffed the Abkhazian attacks. "Our men there are in high spirits," he said.

SNIP

Abkhazian and Russian officials have said they believe Georgia intends to launch an offensive from there to retake Abkhazia and demanded the withdrawal of Georgian troops from the area.

SNIP

498 wiffersnapper  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:35:55am

This statement is very very true.

499 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:36:58am

MOSCOW - A news agency says the Russian navy has deployed ships to blockade Georgia's Black Sea coast.

The Interfax news agency says the Moskva missile cruiser and other Russian Black Sea Fleet ships have been deployed to Georgia's coast to prevent any weapons supplies.

SNIP

500 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:37:09am

re: #495 Colonel Panik

I don't doubt it. Most of my classmates from Punahou that I've talked to about the election are in the tank for the Obamahdi. With the exception of one, he is of Korean descent and his family fled North Korea so he doesn't like leftists much...

Obama is supporting a land grab, by people with Hawaiian blood

501 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:37:13am

re: #492 pingjockey
Hey ping, they're just giving the majority of the American people the news that they (the majority of the American people) care about.
Sigh.

502 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:38:12am

re: #493 opnion

I thought that Johnny Cash was right. Life would not be easy.

Yeah, ya know I'd a changed my name if I were him!

503 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:38:20am

re: #496 pingjockey

I'll bet nobody called John Wayne, Marion to his face. Heh.

He was the 'Duke" Pilgrim

504 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:38:40am

KIEV, Ukraine - Ukraine warned Russia on Sunday it could bar Russian navy ships from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast.

Ukraine's Foreign Ministry said the deployment of a Russian naval squadron to Georgia's Black sea coast has the potential of drawing Ukraine into the conflict.

"In order to prevent the circumstances in which Ukraine could be drawn into a military conflict ... Ukraine reserves the right to bar ships which may take part in these actions from returning to the Ukrainian territory until the conflict is solved," said the statement which was posted on the ministry's Web site.

SNIP

A 1997 agreement between Russia and Ukraine lets the Black Sea Fleet remain in Sevastopol through 2017, but Ukrainian officials have said they want it out after that. The issue adds to emotions over Crimea, which was part of the Russian Federation but ceded to Ukraine during the Soviet era and became part of the independent Ukraine when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

505 opnion  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:39:20am

re: #502 realwest

Yeah, ya know I'd a changed my name if I were him!

Ya know I thought the same thing, ah maybe Atilla or Psycho.

506 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:39:52am

re: #501 realwest
Terrible isn't it. I swear half the Republic, maybe more could care less about what happens in the real world. 'Tis to weep.

507 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:40:25am

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — A Georgian official says Russian planes have raided an aircraft-making plant on the outskirts of the Georgian capital, but there were no reports of victims.

Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili says the raid early Sunday targeted the plant on eastern outskirts of Tbilisi and inflicted some damage to the runways of the plant's airfield. Utiashvili says it inflicted no casualties.

SNIP

508 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:40:35am

re: #470 dmandman

re: #472 pingjockey

re: #473 doriangrey


I understand what you all are saying, but this situation is not yet at the point where the USA should be gambling with confrontation. Do I want to support Georgia? YES! But I do not yet think the situation warrents having Americans in the middle of the fight. Georgia was denied entry into NATO largey because their borders are so loosey-goosey.

509 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:40:58am

Good morning lizards from the sunny TX coast.

510 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:41:01am

re: #499 MandyManners
Good morning Mandy! Yes and the Ukraine has said it may not allow that Russian fleet access to it's bases in the Caspian Sea because of the indiscriminate bombing of Georgian cities that Russia is engaged in (in the spin off links above).

511 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:42:01am

re: #504 MandyManners
Mornin' Mandy. That puts another spin on this uproar doesn't it. Ukraine figures, rightly in my opinion, that they are the next one on Putins to do list.

513 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:42:18am

re: #494 realwest

Sounds familiar. "It only hurts when I breathe."

I empathise (FWIW). I now have upper molars on the right side of my mouth - and lower molars on the left side.

A configuration that makes it somewhat difficult to chew.

/WTH, there's always yogurt - not to mention, ripe bananas -

514 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:42:25am

re: #504 MandyManners
Damn, you're quick!
(shakes fist at Ajax and my own poor typing skills).

515 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:43:31am

re: #509 jorline Good morning jorline! How are you today?

516 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:45:10am

re: #145 HoosierHoops

I've never heard Hawaii called a hellish state before..
a case of rock fever my friend?

Hawaii is a Democrat machine/labor union controlled state. Think Chicago with palm trees. The ILWU (a historically commie associated union) has a chokehold on the island economy. There are plenty of haole moonbats who moved there in the 1960's like Obama's mama who have gotten the natives all stirred up on this "sovereignty" movement. Google Haunani Kay-Trask sometime. Neil Abercrombie, an old hippie 60's leftist is head of their congressional delegation. (Like most places the moonbat power base is the university).

Sadly, Hiram Fong is but a memory now (First Asian-American in Congress. A pro-business Republican.)

Hawaii is f***ed.

517 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:45:16am

re: #513 Temujin And "well cooked pasta and mashed potatoes and um, Ensure! LOL!
Yeah, it does suck, especially cause I can't do anything much about the decay and accelerated decay due to my medications.
Rats.

518 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:45:34am

Russian military aircraft dropped bombs on a road close to Gori, linking the western part of the country with the east, the Georgian Public Broadcaster Reported.

GPB re-transmitted live footage of Reuters showing large plumes of smoke rising into the sky from, what appeared to be an area where the road lies, outside Gori.

Scale of the damage was not immediately clear.

GPB’s reporter in Gori reported that several bombs were also dropped inside the town but there were no reports yet about casualties.

Gori, the town close to the breakaway South Ossetia, came under massive aerial attack on August 9 in which scores of civilian population of killed.

SNIP

(This is a Georgian news agency.)

519 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:45:47am

re: #515 realwest

Good morning jorline! How are you today?

I'm well this morning, RW...thank you. I hope all is well with you today. I was reading some of the overnight threads...you were busy my friend and you were right...we don't dump our friends.

520 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:45:48am

USA by oh, 35 points or so over China. Hmm.

521 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:46:50am

re: #516 Colonel Panik
"Think Chicago with palm trees." LOL!
Are you sure it's not just that Obama is sort of a native son whom they've come to admire?

522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:47:24am

BB after lunch. Missed you guys!

523 Temujin  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:47:50am

re: #517 realwest

Hang in there, realwest.

"This, too, shall pass."

524 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:47:53am

re: #520 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

USA by oh, 35 points or so over China. Hmm.

Oh dear..............Now all US athletes are sure to be served Magic Chicken....

525 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:48:02am

re: #520 Fat Bastard Vegetarian How much time left?

526 theatheistjew  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:48:03am

Evidence that Joooo obsessed internet circus freaks have the mind of a nine year old.

527 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:48:05am

Cuba, here they come

I get the feeling Comrade Putin wishes to rebuild the USSR. Of course, the underlying philosophy will not be Marxism or Leninism, instead a new one called "Putinism". That being, all your rubles belong to me

528 lori lane  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:49:02am

re: #490 pingjockey

I really don't know if he has a chance or not. I'd vote for him if i could! :)

529 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:49:15am

GORI, Georgia - Georgian troops retreated from the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Sunday as their U.S.-allied government ordered a cease-fire and pressed for a truce, overwhelmed by Russian firepower in a conflict that threatened to set off a wider war.

Russia deployed a naval squadron off the coast of another of Georgia's separatist regions, Abkhazia, and its jets bombed the outskirts of Tblisi, the Georgian capital.

SNIP

530 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:49:40am

re: #525 realwest

How much time left?

three minutes

531 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:49:44am

re: #517 realwest

And "well cooked pasta and mashed potatoes and um, Ensure! LOL!
Yeah, it does suck, especially cause I can't do anything much about the decay and accelerated decay due to my medications.
Rats.

Sweet taters! With brown sugar on top. Come on boy, you're in the South now you should be able to find some one to cook that up for ya. Good for your gut too, lots of vitamins, beta carotene and fiber.

532 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:50:05am

re: #519 jorline Well I WAS busy, don't know how many "converts" to the stand by your ally comments.
And I - regrettably - allowed my increasing anger to follow me to bed, damnit.
SO I may be taking a non-medicinally induced nap anytime now!

533 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:50:26am

re: #529 MandyManners

GORI, Georgia - Georgian troops retreated from the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Sunday as their U.S.-allied government ordered a cease-fire and pressed for a truce, overwhelmed by Russian firepower in a conflict that threatened to set off a wider war.

Russia deployed a naval squadron off the coast of another of Georgia's separatist regions, Abkhazia, and its jets bombed the outskirts of Tblisi, the Georgian capital.

SNIP

Russia also laid much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington, which has trained Georgian troops. Washington, in turned, blamed Russia.

SNIP

534 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:52:28am

re: #530 jorline 3 minutes and we're up by 35?! - really? Holy Cow!

535 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:54:48am

re: #533 MandyManners

Russia also laid much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington, which has trained Georgian troops. Washington, in turned, blamed Russia.

SNIP

ROTFLMAO, well you certainly didn't expect Russia to admit that now that their financial circumstance have turned around they were simply going to reclaim all of their former slaves did you?

536 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:54:50am

Mikhail is fucked, Akbhazia and Ossetia are going to be recognized by Moscow as separate states or whatever & non of his friends turned up when the big bear showed him the love. He overplayed his hand and got bitchslapped.

537 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:55:17am

re: #532 realwest

Well I WAS busy, don't know how many "converts" to the stand by your ally comments.
And I - regrettably - allowed my increasing anger to follow me to bed, damnit.
SO I may be taking a non-medicinally induced nap anytime now!

I could see that you were upset, control that anger it's not good for your health. I may partake in a nap also.

It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down.

538 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:56:26am

re: #521 realwest

"Think Chicago with palm trees." LOL!
Are you sure it's not just that Obama is sort of a native son whom they've come to admire?

That's part of it, at least for the Punahou grads, after all he did go to our school. But Hawaii is bent left. Farther left than most mainlanders can imagine. The only thing that keeps it from tipping totally over the edge is the military presence ( and a fair number of retirees there...those that can still afford it) and the Chinese-American and Korean-American entrepreneurial class.

I lived there 8 years in the 70's and 80's and still keep an eye on island politics. Believe me I know what I am talking about.

The Hawaii Reporter is a good source for non-moonbat tainted news from Hawaii. The Honolulu Star Bullsh** is totally in the tank for the Dem machine.

539 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:56:39am

re: #533 MandyManners
Hey Mandy - just wanted to say "Thank You" for those great posts you've been making on the Russia-Georgia conflict.
Thank you.

540 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:57:24am

101 - 70 USA final

541 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:58:30am

I see (via HotAir's headlines) that Georgia has declared a unilateral cease-fire in South Ossetia?

542 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:59:11am

GORI, Georgia — The conflict between Russia and the former Soviet republic of Georgia moved toward full-scale war on Saturday, as Russia sent warships to land ground troops in the disputed territory of Abkhazia and broadened its bombing campaign across Georgia.

The fighting that had sharply escalated when Georgian forces tried to retake the capital of South Ossetia, a pro-Russian region that won de facto autonomy from Georgia in the early 1990s, appeared to be developing into the worst clashes between Russia and a foreign military since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.

SNIP

He said that Russia had built up large forces in Abkhazia and South Ossetia — breakaway regions that have support from Moscow — including as many as 300 artillery pieces in South Ossetia alone. Russian forces, he said, were also poised just over the border at Larsi, a checkpoint, where they could open a third line of ground attack.

As Russia moved more forces into the region and continued aerial bombing, it appeared determined to occupy both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

SNIP

543 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 8:59:56am

It appears that the "railway soldiers" in Abkhazia I posted about yesterday have not gone home.

544 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:01:40am

Manuel Noriega redux?

545 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:02:18am

re: #537 jorline

I could see that you were upset, control that anger it's not good for your health. I may partake in a nap also.

It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down.

Oh they will back down, their just going to throw their weight around a little first. Putin is no fool, he knows he can threaten Georgia, but he also knows hurting them to much will result in US direct involvement and he knows Russia cant withstand US military involvement.

So he will bluster and bluff and punish Georgia for accepting US help, but in the end he will make it look as if the Russian military was unafraid of US involvement while withdrawing his forces inches shy of forcing US military involvement.

The only question is... Will the bumbling Russian military accidentally cross the line that forces US military involvement before he reins them in.

546 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:02:22am

Was Georgia spurred on by the fact it was a US ally? Did they think the USA would back them in this adventure? It's hard to tell.....which side really started this? Russia by taunting Georgia? Georgia by being too overconfident?

547 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:03:06am

re: #537 jorline "It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down."
Well why on earth would the Russians back down - they've been bombing Georgian cities and killing civilians and the US has done........squat. Methinks Poland and Czechoslovakia may be having second thought about the US basing the new anti-missile systems in their countries too.
I mean, hell, we haven't stood by Georgia which DID stand by us in Iraq with 2,000 men so why should they expect the U.S. to help them?
IF anyone needs bitch slapping here it's the Russians, but I don't think we'll do it.

548 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:04:11am

Putin is going to keep S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. Once he has any territory he ain't giving it back.

549 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:04:42am

re: #500 opnion

Obama is supporting a land grab, by people with Hawaiian blood

Who are actually a miniscule portion of the population. Pure blooded Hawaiians that is. But there are a lot of Hawaiian-Chinese, Hawaiian-Japanese, Hawaiian-Scots-Irish, Hawaiian-Portagee (Portugese in local speak...lots of Portugese sailors on those whaling ships in the 1800's) you name it "poi dog" kine mixes because racial intermarriage is so common there.

The land grab thing is a scam. Hawaii Reporter has a lot on it.

550 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:04:47am

re: #548 pingjockey

Putin is going to keep S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. Once he has any territory he ain't giving it back.

Well that is the way Putin is playing it anyway...

551 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:05:02am

re: #537 jorline

It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down.

Back down against a country 1/100th its size?

552 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:05:15am

Well, Lizards, I'm back for a short bit.

I don't know what's up with the Pink Ties. Some lame attempt to appear metrosexual to gain viewers? Anyway, they look bad. Regardless of the sexual preference issue invoked, pink is not a good color for business. Unless you are selling cosmetics. This is one issue in which I'm strait conservative.

553 dmandman  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:06:29am

Well there was some hard words exchanged in person this morning between Putin and Bush this morning at the Olympics. This is according to the Aussie top dog. I think that some things are in motion right now that won't please Putin at all. If either Putin or Bush suddenly fly home from Beijing in the next 24 hours, look out.

554 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:06:59am

re: #550 doriangrey
On FNC just now, the Kremlin says "Georgia is incapable of governing the region". Now either Putin will keep his territorial gains or he's aiming to take all of Georgia for the expansion of the new Russian Empire.

555 Deafdog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:07:30am

re: #552 ggt

Well, Lizards, I'm back for a short bit.

I don't know what's up with the Pink Ties. Some lame attempt to appear metrosexual to gain viewers? Anyway, they look bad. Regardless of the sexual preference issue invoked, pink is not a good color for business. Unless you are selling cosmetics. This is one issue in which I'm strait conservative.

American Airlines just announced that they are putting a pink ribbon on their planes to support Breast Cancer fundraising.

I think the pink ties are along the same line

Breast Cancer Awareness

556 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:07:33am

re: #547 realwest

"It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down."
Well why on earth would the Russians back down - they've been bombing Georgian cities and killing civilians and the US has done........squat. Methinks Poland and Czechoslovakia may be having second thought about the US basing the new anti-missile systems in their countries too.
I mean, hell, we haven't stood by Georgia which DID stand by us in Iraq with 2,000 men so why should they expect the U.S. to help them?
IF anyone needs bitch slapping here it's the Russians, but I don't think we'll do it.

Poland and the other eastern European countries should not worry, but every one of our "new found friends" in the former Soviet Republics must be very worried. Russia is still a military power, but if the tanks start rolling west, even into Ukraine, it will be Putin that over played his hand.

557 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:08:09am

IIRC, Georgia is a country that hasn't known lasting peace. Someone else always wants their land.

help me out Lizards. Historically, speaking that is.

558 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:08:12am

re: #546 Desert Dog

My inclination is to always think Russia is being expansionist. And all those independent - not to say hostile - states smack in the middle of their territory (between European Russia and Siberia) has to give their military cold chills. In Russian terms, getting back control of 1) the territory and 2) the trans-Caucasus pipeline has to be a priority.

559 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:08:34am

re: #555 Deafdog
I could buy that, but a lot of these anchors are using them as a fashion accesory. Gaaah!

560 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:08:35am

re: #555 Deafdog

ah!

561 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:08:49am

re: #552 ggt

Well, Lizards, I'm back for a short bit.

I don't know what's up with the Pink Ties. Some lame attempt to appear metrosexual to gain viewers? Anyway, they look bad. Regardless of the sexual preference issue invoked, pink is not a good color for business. Unless you are selling cosmetics. This is one issue in which I'm strait conservative.

What's up with this meter-o-sexual thing? Why are people getting off on parking meters? Do they vibrate when you put a quarter in, like those old hotel room bed massagers? I can imagine the ones in San Francisco doing that.

562 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:09:32am

re: #557 ggt

IIRC, Georgia is a country that hasn't known lasting peace. Someone else always wants their land.

help me out Lizards. Historically, speaking that is.

Don't know the exact historical timeline details but I'd have to say you are right on that one.

563 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:09:59am

re: #556 Desert Dog

One thing I noticed back when I was researching such things (a couple of years ago), is that the countries that were still part of the Coalition in Iraq and Afganistan were the former USSR countries bordering the warzone.

They don't want Socialism back in any form.

564 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:10:15am

re: #553 dmandman

Isn't Air Force One a mobile command post? Does Bush really have to come home?

565 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:10:16am

re: #548 pingjockey

Putin is going to keep S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. Once he has any territory he ain't giving it back.

Sounds to me like he's taking the whole enchilada.

566 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:10:31am

re: #561 Colonel Panik

You bad!

LOL

567 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:10:58am

re: #556 Desert Dog

Poland and the other eastern European countries should not worry, but every one of our "new found friends" in the former Soviet Republics must be very worried. Russia is still a military power, but if the tanks start rolling west, even into Ukraine, it will be Putin that over played his hand.

Putin is going to try to play toe to the line brinkmanship, the question is, is the Russian Military capable of such finesse any more? Personally I dont think so, I expect them to screw up and things will get very ugly for a very short time with Russia being forced to tuck tail and return home very unhappy.

568 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:11:08am

re: #546 Desert Dog Don't know WHO actually started it, but RUSSIA is clearly going after all of Georgia - not just the "disputed areas".
And, fwliw, I do think that some F-22's, some
F-16 Superhornets and some "Warthogs" could change Russia's mind pretty quickly.
Or at least the U.S. could recall our Ambassador to Russia and lodge a protest at the U.N. and, iirc, Bush could withdraw Russia's most favored nation status w/o Congressional approval. Ya know, at least let Russia know we are watching their ass and there is (I hope) a line which they ought not cross.

569 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:11:33am

re: #564 Dianna
Nope. He can run the whole shooting match from AF one.

570 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:12:22am

re: #557 ggt

Wikipedia's article isn't bad - or, more properly, wasn't bad. I have no idea what edits have occurred to it since last I checked it.

571 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:12:32am

BBIAB. The little boss would like to use algoracles invention. :)

572 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:13:12am

re: #553 dmandman
Do you have any link for that? I'd love to see what Bush and Putin allegedly said to each other.

573 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:13:15am

re: #546 Desert Dog

Was Georgia spurred on by the fact it was a US ally? Did they think the USA would back them in this adventure? It's hard to tell.....which side really started this? Russia by taunting Georgia? Georgia by being too overconfident?

There is a definite element of Moral hazard on Georgia's side. Ossetia and Akhbazia were defacto independent since the 90's, why stir up the hornets nest again especially when it was evident that Russia would militarily intervene because of the worsening relations between Russia and Georgia. He overplayed his cards thinking that Russia would not dare to confront Georgia because of Georgia's military and economic ties with the west.

Lesson no. 1 in Geopolitics; you don't pick up a military quarrel with a country 100 times your size in the hope that distant allies will back you

574 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:13:32am

re: #561 Colonel Panik

What's up with this meter-o-sexual thing? Why are people getting off on parking meters? Do they vibrate when you put a quarter in, like those old hotel room bed massagers? I can imagine the ones in San Francisco doing that.

That would imply that there is an actual, working City service in San Francisco.

575 ggt  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:13:44am

yes, it seems Georgia has had precarious independence for at least 800 years.

576 dmandman  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:14:20am

re: #569 pingjockey

Know that, but that's the diplomatic signal that you are serious to the other countries.

577 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:14:21am

re: #554 pingjockey
I dibs "he's aiming to take all of Georgia for the expansion of the new Russian Empire."

578 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:14:56am

re: #572 realwest

It's a Hot Air headline.

579 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:15:01am

Clueless citizen of the world got a tap on the shoulder *pssst - here's what side you need to take*.

580 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:15:16am

re: #565 itellu3times

Sounds to me like he's taking the whole enchilada.

Yup, and it could be that he has bitten off more than he can chew. My guess is that he has decided that the chances of McCain becoming POTUS are sufficiently high that he needs to move now and possibly effect the presidential race in Obama's favor and take his chances with the cowboy rather than face a pissed off McCain.

581 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:16:03am

re: #568 realwest

Don't know WHO actually started it, but RUSSIA is clearly going after all of Georgia - not just the "disputed areas".
And, fwliw, I do think that some F-22's, some
F-16 Superhornets and some "Warthogs" could change Russia's mind pretty quickly.
Or at least the U.S. could recall our Ambassador to Russia and lodge a protest at the U.N. and, iirc, Bush could withdraw Russia's most favored nation status w/o Congressional approval. Ya know, at least let Russia know we are watching their ass and there is (I hope) a line which they ought not cross.

The chances of us doing that are slim (I hope). We could go in there and kick Russia in the teeth, but I think starting a war with them is not a good idea. Georgia better give up hope of keeping that province and start kissing Putin's ass so he does not take the entire country.

582 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:16:09am

re: #573 Westward Ho

Considering the number of troops Russia had moved into South Ossetia over the last couple years, what exactly makes you think the Georgians had much choice?

583 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:17:07am

re: #545 doriangrey

Oh they will back down, their just going to throw their weight around a little first. Putin is no fool, he knows he can threaten Georgia, but he also knows hurting them to much will result in US direct involvement and he knows Russia cant withstand US military involvement.

So he will bluster and bluff and punish Georgia for accepting US help, but in the end he will make it look as if the Russian military was unafraid of US involvement while withdrawing his forces inches shy of forcing US military involvement.

The only question is... Will the bumbling Russian military accidentally cross the line that forces US military involvement before he reins them in.

Points well taken, dorian. The Russians are the biggest bully on the block at this time. They will inflect as much damage as fast as they can. Putin will back down if the US gets involved. Russia can bark all it wants and can fight against smaller dogs, but it doesn't have the resources nor clout to fight the big dog.

584 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:17:20am

re: #564 Dianna Yes, I believe you're right about Air Force One. But it would be the symbol of Bush coming home that would be important, as would moving one or more of the now 4 aircraft carrier battle groups somewhat closer to the action - shorten flight times, ya know?

585 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:18:40am

re: #581 Desert Dog

If Shakaashvili starts kissing Putin's ass, Georgia will be a province of the Russian Empire again by the end of the year.

586 Dianna  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:19:35am

Ah! I see we have a Georgia thread just waiting for us!

See you there!

587 jorline  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:20:18am

re: #547 realwest

"It doesn't sound like the Russians are going to back down."
Well why on earth would the Russians back down - they've been bombing Georgian cities and killing civilians and the US has done........squat. Methinks Poland and Czechoslovakia may be having second thought about the US basing the new anti-missile systems in their countries too.
I mean, hell, we haven't stood by Georgia which DID stand by us in Iraq with 2,000 men so why should they expect the U.S. to help them?
IF anyone needs bitch slapping here it's the Russians, but I don't think we'll do it.

All very solid points RW. We do need to stand up for the Georgians and if we don't our creditability will be shoot...why should anyone trust us. The Russians will back down if we get involved.

588 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:20:54am

re: #573 Westward Ho
So lemme ask you a question. That he "overplayed his cards" bit, does that justify Russia bombing civilian occupied towns? In moving towards taking over Georgia completely? IF so, what about the Ukraine if they do in fact deny that little Russian naval squadron access back to their bases? Would that justify the Russians going after the Ukraine and killiing Ukranian civilians? The tenor of virtually every one of your posts would lead me to believe that the answer to that is yes.

589 realwest  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:21:20am

BBIAW!

590 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:30:38am

re: #509 jorline

Good morning lizards from the sunny TX coast.

Good morning backatcha!

591 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:31:22am

re: #582 Dianna

Considering the number of troops Russia had moved into South Ossetia over the last couple years, what exactly makes you think the Georgians had much choice?

And did they make the right choice, this polish cavalry bravado has just completely ruined their nation. The territory which was de facto independent will become de jure.
The root of this crisis is NATO's expansion eastward which Russia was powerless to oppose but has apparently now drawn the line in the sand. I don't blame the countries for seeking NATO membership which is like seeking police protection from a mob boss.

592 doriangrey  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:34:32am

re: #580 doriangrey

Yup, and it could be that he has bitten off more than he can chew. My guess is that he has decided that the chances of McCain becoming POTUS are sufficiently high that he needs to move now and possibly effect the presidential race in Obama's favor and take his chances with the cowboy rather than face a pissed off McCain.

I would like to add this as evidence supporting my conclusions.

Let’s be clear: if McCain the Candidate is a reliable indicator of what we can expect from McCain the President, the presumptive Republican nominee would apparently be anxious to exacerbate the burgeoning war, and antagonize Russia.

There’s a lot going on right now, but this is a very important development in the presidential campaign. Ben Smith characterized this as a “true ‘3 a.m. moment’” for the presidential candidates. And at this point, McCain is once again looking pretty scary.

593 Westward Ho  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:41:30am

re: #588 realwest


Realwest,

What I am trying to put across is that Mikhail acted just like Mahmoud Ahmedinejad and Hugo Chavez, leaders of shitholes acting like completely disrespectful punks, totally pissing of the great powers with impunity in the region till they get their asses kicked.

You can call it the Iron Fist theory of Geopolitics.

594 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:43:05am

re: #462 pingjockey

Goddamn Dick Turbin. It is none of your business what a company does with its profits!

If one looks at all the problems that we face on the political level one thng becomes absolutely clear, the Democrats are either the primary cause of the problem, the the primary aggravating factor of the problem, or the primary obstacle to a rational solution to the problem.

595 right_on_target  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 9:53:26am

re: #550 doriangrey
Putin is going to keep S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. Once he has any territory he ain't giving it back.

Well that is the way Putin is playing it anyway...

Russia invaded Poland in 1939 and never gave it back. The bread basket of Poland, lost.

596 Aylios  Sun, Aug 10, 2008 10:34:34am

re: #330 realwestWell, I'll keep checking it out RW (sorry for the tardy answer btw, been inundated by customers). According to the links I've read, Georgia started shooting first and then went running to Uncle Sam when the rebels shot back with russian support, which frankly they (the georgians) would have known was coming.

I'm just not decided on this yet, for want of adequate information and I don't suddenly trust the MSM on fair and objective reporting just because Russia is suddenly the obvious bad guy. I've been pretty well inoculated against that by the Paleostein/Israel conflict.

It's also been a while since I've thought of the Russians as the bad guys, what with Islam in the foreground and China up and coming at the speed of light. I'm not too keen to think of them (the Russians) as the bad guys again, because that'd be even more depressing than being pitted against Islam and (at least economically, in the future perhaps militarily) and China, with Europe being totally useless.

It's a depressing scenario, but ok if that's the way it turns out to be, then so be it. But I'm not jumping to any conclusions just because Georgia has decided to lick our ass instead of Russia's.


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