Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

I guess the rest of the world is busy with the Olympics. :)

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

They are only anti-war when it involves the US with a Republican President or Israel at all times.

em>re: #1 JammieWearingFool

You mean the pro-revolution socialists?

CHANGE! CHANGE! CHANGE!

No, it's normal.
The left will not criticize bully regimes like Iran and the Russians because they're intimidated. However, the left will shrilly rant against America because they know they can do it with impunity, including the commiting of treasonous acts.
In this way, one can clearly observe how the behavior of leftists reflects the attitude of spoiled, pampered children.

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

Not really, they line up with Russia & Islam without regret.

Putin's march from Tbilisi to the sea.

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

This is not good.

Jammie has a good point. Hearing crickets from the moonbats.

Let's have a clear understanding of what's happening. The Georgians having failed to dragoon the South Ossetians into compliance, are surrendering.

BTW, the Georgians are our friends, deservedly, but our friends can be fools.

One might hope that all the former Iron Curtain countries would band together for their mutual protection against Russia so that none of them would be reassimilated into a new USSR.

And on a side note, I had a guy from Belarus tell me yesterday that it's all America's fault. Russia is the victim in all this.

The anti-war leftists only are anti-war when it comes to the US defending itself and its interests around the world. When other leftists engage in war, they turn a willing blind eye.

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Oh gosh... I actually read that crap.

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

This puts the anti-evolution Discovery Institute on the same side with the Kos Kids.

re: #13 Basho

I DON'T go over there anymore for any reason. I just puts me in a bad mood.

im watching the rusian fed try to justify this further aggression in a un security council meeting here
[Link: foxnews-stream1.wm.llnwd.net...]
paste that in wmp or go to fox for a live link

And yes, I realize it's "they're".

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Ted Kennedy and the Democratic Party are still delivering to the Kremlin just like they promised 25 years ago in their initiative to the KGB when it was obvious that Reagan was going to be President for at least a little while longer. BTW this is documented and vetted, just not publicized by the MSM when the info came to light after the fall of the KGB. Wish I still had the link to the author of the book that had the full info in it. It looks like the selective see no evil, hear no evil applies to other Dems besides Edwards.

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

I've read at one place where the little fuckers are blaming Pres. Bush for this.

re: #11 jemima

Belarus is a Stalinist throwback region.

If Ukraine blocks Russian ships & Turkey follows suit, this will indeed tip the scale.

re: #11 jemima

It's always America's fault. LOL.

Georgian reports here.

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...]

re: #10 MikeySDCA

It's true that our friends can be fools - see Musharraf and his appeasement/attack cycle of violence that ensued in Pakistan as exhibit A. However, Georgia has legitimate claims to South Ossetia, and the Russians have been playing games there ever since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia saw what the Russians had been doing, and all it takes is a look at a map to understand the security risk posed by allowing Russia to have unfettered access there.

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

I was confused by this rant. Does Kos wants a war with Russia?

The Russian Foreign Ministry had no immediate response to the Georgian offer.

Translation: The Russians are going to take everything they can.

Question: Are we going to let them reincorporate Georgia as a province of Imperial Russia?

“Georgia expresses its readiness to immediately start negotiations with the Russian Federation on cease-fire and termination of hostilities,”

The mob boss just bitchslapped some respect into Mikhail come latelys ass. Where are your new friends now Mikhail where is Bush, Sarkozy, Angela, Solana...?

re: #23 MandyManners

Interesting, the Scientology Channel had an ad on that website.

One Word: Turkey
The Turks are the big dogs in the region. If they move in then the Russians go down. The Turkish Navy has submarines that could sink the Russian Black Sea fleet transports and the Ukrainians have already threatened to bar the Russians from returning to port. Putin may have stuck his schlong way out on a chopping block. This may not be over. Even if the Georgians have to pull back. They have Israeli advisors in place. Do wish that the tunnel had been blown on day one.

Teddy & the KGB
[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

re: #7 itellu3times

Wrong way 'round: from the sea to Tblisi.

Grrrr.

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain? Because I'm getting a lot of links from blogs there linking to my Up Your Alley event.

Wish I knew what they were saying! Weird-looking language.

re: #30 jemima

thanks, it's pretty damning and Teddy should be in Prison costume at the very least.

re: #32 zombie

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain?

Latvia.

re: #14 Charles

Will that change their position? Or will they say, "Well, politics make strange bedfellows"?

re: #32 zombie

looks like latvia
[Link: www.iana.org...]

re: #32 zombie

Hello Zombie, how was the smorgasbord?

#22

We should stop trying to help Belarus obtain greater independence, bunch of skanky ingrates. They only get news from Moscow but I'm sure it's fair and balanced.

re: #32 zombie

Lativa

Putin doesn't want just South Ossetia and Abkhazia. He wants Georgia, too.

re: #18 dmandman

Ted Kennedy and the Democratic Party are still delivering to the Kremlin just like they promised 25 years ago in their initiative to the KGB when it was obvious that Reagan was going to be President for at least a little while longer. BTW this is documented and vetted, just not publicized by the MSM when the info came to light after the fall of the KGB. Wish I still had the link to the author of the book that had the full info in it. It looks like the selective see no evil, hear no evil applies to other Dems besides Edwards.

It always applies to a Kennedy.

re: #32 zombie

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain? Because I'm getting a lot of links from blogs there linking to my Up Your Alley event.

Wish I knew what they were saying! Weird-looking language.

Lativa? Are they suing roman characters or cyrillic? Latvians use roman characters and the language looks somewhat like Finnish.

Judging from the words in the link I'm guessing Latvia.

re: #40 MandyManners

yep

re: #26 Dianna

Translation: The Russians are going to take everything they can.

Question: Are we going to let them reincorporate Georgia as a province of Imperial Russia?

The Russians are after the Georgian oilfields and the pipeline that handles a full 1% of the world's oil supply. Bombing it now by most reports. And there probably is not enough of Georgia to stop the Russian bear.

re: #30 jemima

Thanks for that, sounds like a good email to send around.

re: #34 Charles

Latvia.

Ah, OK. Latvia. Who knew?

The only connection I ever had with Latvia is: I met and had conversations with famous historian Professor Leon Litwack (which is the prototypical Latvian name). It was only later that I found out he was a stone-cold Communist.

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

They want Bush and Cheney strung up for it, no less.

Nice little bloodthirsty shitforbrains Ché wannabes. A rather stark confirmation of StudSupreme's comment #5.

Up next - a roll of lies from the Kremlin.

re: #37 lifeofthemind

Hello Zombie, how was the smorgasbord?

I didn't eat it myself: I just had to lie perfectly still.

#45, your welcome.

{Galloping Granny}

re: #32 zombie

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain? Because I'm getting a lot of links from blogs there linking to my Up Your Alley event.

Wish I knew what they were saying! Weird-looking language.

IANA - Root Zone Database

re: #40 MandyManners

Putin Gazprom doesn't want just South Ossetia and Abkhazia. He wants Georgia, too.

Lest we not forget Putin & Mdvedev were former heads of Gazprom.

re: #11 jemima

One might hope that all the former Iron Curtain countries would band together for their mutual protection against Russia so that none of them would be reassimilated into a new USSR.

And on a side note, I had a guy from Belarus tell me yesterday that it's all America's fault. Russia is the victim in all this.

I agree with the idea of an alliance of former Iron Curtain countries. If we're not going to let them into NATO, they should have something else.

Although- I now understand why Russia has been so opposed to our willingness to allow some of these countries into NATO. If Georgia had been let into NATO, Russia would now have NATO to deal with, because an attack on one is an attack on all.

re: #28 ggt

Doesn't matter - it's information. At this point, I'll take what I can get!

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

DKOS - left-wing mind pollution for proggies.

The worst case line-up is looking like this.
Russia, Iran, China vs.
USA, Ukraine, Turkey, Poland, & most of rest of Nato.

Honestly I think if the worst happens we win but Putin should be able to pull back.

re: #39 Desert Dog

Latvia

re: #12 lawhawk

The anti-war leftists only are anti-war when it comes to the US defending itself and its interests around the world. When other leftists engage in war, they turn a willing blind eye.

Blind eye? Hell no, they cheer them on.

re: #29 lifeofthemind

Yeah, me too!

However, then the Georgians would have had to rebuild it.

They still should have blown it.

re: #54 Dianna

I already sent the link around. There's nothing on snopes to refute it, so it should get some ears steaming.

re: #53 Sharmuta

Many of those former Iron Curtain countries and former Soviet Republics are fearful that they'll be treated worse should Russia decide to go after them after siding with the West over closer ties to Moscow. There's a long history of Russian interference in the domestic affairs of its neighbors going back centuries. And Putin and his crowd are clearly looking to take advantage of the situation in the West by going for ripe pickings.

re: #32 zombie

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain? Because I'm getting a lot of links from blogs there linking to my Up Your Alley event.

Wish I knew what they were saying! Weird-looking language.

zombie, the word "Latvijas" - which appears in the first sentence in your link - is how Latvians write the word Latvia.

re: #27 Westward Ho
As you know, we covered this discussion fairly thoroughly in the Dead Thread today and I asked you the following - though I suppose you'd left by then, so I'll repost it here:
"So lemme ask you a question. That he "overplayed his cards" bit, does that justify Russia bombing civilian occupied towns? In moving towards taking over Georgia completely? IF so, what about the Ukraine if they do in fact deny that little Russian naval squadron access back to their bases? Would that justify the Russians going after the Ukraine and killiing Ukranian civilians? The tenor of virtually every one of your posts would lead me to believe that the answer to that is yes".

We can thank OIL for Putin, for the Saudis, for Iran, for UAE, for Venezuela, etc, etc...Oil is the root of all evil these days. Most of the countries that have alot A)do not like us and B)are world class tyrants

Anyone ever read Ali & Nino? It was OOP (out-of-print) for a while, but I, but I noticed it is back in print at Borders anyway.

It is a novel set in Georgia. The insights it gives seem to be accurate.

re: #53 Sharmuta

I agree with the idea of an alliance of former Iron Curtain countries. If we're not going to let them into NATO, they should have something else.

Although- I now understand why Russia has been so opposed to our willingness to allow some of these countries into NATO. If Georgia had been let into NATO, Russia would now have NATO to deal with, because an attack on one is an attack on all.

I'd rather have most of the former eastern block countries on my side than most of NATO.

re: #44 galloping granny

The Russians are after the Georgian oilfields and the pipeline that handles a full 1% of the world's oil supply. Bombing it now by most reports. And there probably is not enough of Georgia to stop the Russian bear.

Georgia doesn't have the oil field just the pipelines. The oil fields are farther East in Azerbaijan and the Caspian.

re: #61 lawhawk

Yes indeed.

re: #40 MandyManners

Putin doesn't want just South Ossetia and Abkhazia. He wants Georgia, too.

Putin wants not just Georgia, but all of the former Soviet Empire.

What will we do when he invades the Baltic States?

re: #57 MikeySDCA

Latvia

Lativa? A small unknown country?....that sounds more like a new laxative...pimf

The BBC website is reporting Georgia's international airport has been hit by Russian bombs- details soon.

re: #53 Sharmuta

Europe had better realize that they are about to let Russia control their energy completely.

re: #66 Truck Monkey

I'd rather have most of the former eastern block countries on my side than most of NATO.

I can't argue with that- they seem to understand how precious Freedom is.

the french dont seem to be on russias side...

re: #70 Desert Dog

Lativa? A small unknown country?....that sounds more like a new laxative...pimf

One of the three Baltic States on the seacoast between Poland and Russia. Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Given the pipeline angle, anyone want to venture a guess how much oil will spike tomorrow?

re: #67 lifeofthemind

"Access to the sea" seems to be a reoccurring theme in world history.

Help me out here Lizards, wouldn't George have the idea that they are in a precarious position and have their ducks in a row before they involved themselves with a bigger adversary?

Just sayin' there is something here I'm missing. I tend to see and understand things in the broad scope.

. Kā raksta "Zombie", tas tā nav visās šāda veida izdarībās - vismaz šajā noteikti nē.

Does that say, "We must target this diabolical "Zombie" character for immediate termination!" or, alternately, "Why hasn't somebody given "Zombie" a Pulitzer Prize yet?"

Could go either way!

Though it does look like they're gearing up for an international boycot of all SABMIller beers:

Kā savus svarīgākos starptautiskos zīmolus SABMiller min Pilsner Urquell, Peroni Nastro Azzurro, Miller Genuine Draft (un protams viss, kas sākas ar Miller), un Castle Lager. Pēc MillerCoors mājaslapās pieejamās informācijas, caur ASV tirgum veidotu kopuzņēmumu ar MolsonCoors, pie kompānijas zināmākajiem zīmoliem būtu pieskaitami arī visi, kas sākas ar Coors, Molson, Fosters, un Killian's Irish Red.

If Congress hadn't spent the last 35 years shrinking the American armed forces to handcuff the President and fund pork barrel welfare for liberals then the US military would be twice its' present size and the Russians wouldn't have tried anything.

re: #61 lawhawk

Well said - I truly believe we're looking at the reincorporation of Imperial Russia. Maybe we can get the old "Prisonhouse of Nations" tag revived?

The leftists would be happy with a Soviet type diet. "I'm too fat anyway, cabbage will fine but I'll pass on the potatoes."

re: #76 sbvft contributor

Given the pipeline angle, anyone want to venture a guess how much oil will spike tomorrow?

I don't even want to think about it. Gas is back down to 3.71 a gallon for regular here in AZ. Better fill up the Camry today.

re: #74 trailortrash

the french dont seem to be on russias side...

Is France ever on anybody's side?

re: #26 Dianna

Question: Are we going to let them reincorporate Georgia as a province of Imperial Russia?

Answer: Yes.

Now, I'll take Broadway Shows for $200, Alex.

lol sharm, true

OT notice: I am completely fed up with these delusional Obama birth certificate stories, and I'm going to delete any and all links that are posted about it. This morning someone posted a link to a blog that cited LARRY JOHNSON as a source for this, despite Johnson's long history of fraud and lies.

I do not want this garbage at LGF. Don't post links to it here.

re: #70 Desert Dog

Latvia, if you could learn to read, not to mention spell. Latvia

the anti war movement confirms all of its own bad traits at a time like this. for example:

cowering in silence while a war they have no clue about claims many innocent victims.

backing down in the face of brute force. let's be honest, they hate it when we use force but show (through their silence and cowardice) they understand that it works. it's working on them. putin is playing them big time.

that said, I am in no way equating the USA's use of force with that of putin. their motives could not be more different. and since the anti war crowd can't admit that fact, it really tells me their patriotism is very much worth questioning.

France is always on the side.

re: #69 Spiny Norman

Putin wants not just Georgia, but all of the former Soviet Empire.

What will we do when he invades the Baltic States?

I think he might settle for the old Russian Empire...but I don't think I'll count on that.

re: #71 Sharmuta

We are definitely looking at the whole-sale conquest of Georgia.

Sen. John McCain.

"For many years, I have warned against Russian actions that undermine the sovereignty of its neighbors. Unfortunately, we have seen in recent days Russia demonstrate that these concerns were well-founded.

"This afternoon I spoke, for the second time since the crisis began, with Georgian President Saakashvili. It is clear the situation is dire. Russian aggression against Georgia continues, with attacks occurring far beyond the Georgian region of South Ossetia. As casualties continue to mount, the international community must do all it can to avert further escalations. Tensions and hostilities between Georgians and Ossetians are in no way justification for Russian troops crossing an internationally recognized border. I again call on the Government of Russia to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces from the territory of Georgia.

"Given this threat to Euro-Atlantic security, I am pleased to see the United States, the European Union, and NATO acting together by sending a delegation to the region, in an effort to broker a cease fire. This is an important first step.

SNIP

Why does the Bear sit on its own trap when it poops in the woods?

Vlad's blowin' it.

It's pretty simple to me: regardless of who started this conflict, it's obvious that a US ally, who has had 2,000 troops fighting alongside us in Iraq, is now being visciously attacked - not over the "disputed" territory, but all over Georgia. Our ally. And Russia is bombing Georgian cities without regard to the deaths of civilians from that bombing.
And now the Ukraine has said it may not allow the Russian naval squadron to get back to it's base
in the Caspian sea.
And, apparently, Bush and Putin had some hard, harsh words and turned their backs on each other at the Olympics and stomped away.
Methinks this is a whole lot more than what the MSM has portrayed it so far.
And btw, thank you MANDY MANNERS for your excellent coverage of events over there, out on the Dead Thread.
And Fox News is now reporting that the international CIVILIAN airport in Georgia's capital is being bombed.
And what have we (the U.S.) done about any of this?

re: #89 pat

France is always on the side.

No, they are front and center when surrender is required.

re: #92 MandyManners

BHO: "Just lemme' hang ten."

re: #8 laxmatt1984

Their not silent at all. They are supporting Russia.

[Link: dailykos.com...]

What a rant -- written by Jerome A Paris. A french guy. no wonder

re: #94 realwest

You're welcome.

re: #92 MandyManners

Sen. John McCain.

"For many years, I have warned against Russian actions that undermine the sovereignty of its neighbors. Unfortunately, we have seen in recent days Russia demonstrate that these concerns were well-founded.

"This afternoon I spoke, for the second time since the crisis began, with Georgian President Saakashvili. It is clear the situation is dire. Russian aggression against Georgia continues, with attacks occurring far beyond the Georgian region of South Ossetia. As casualties continue to mount, the international community must do all it can to avert further escalations. Tensions and hostilities between Georgians and Ossetians are in no way justification for Russian troops crossing an internationally recognized border. I again call on the Government of Russia to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces from the territory of Georgia.

"Given this threat to Euro-Atlantic security, I am pleased to see the United States, the European Union, and NATO acting together by sending a delegation to the region, in an effort to broker a cease fire. This is an important first step.

SNIP

This is from yesterday, BTW.

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

re: #83 Sharmuta

Is France ever on anybody's side?

France is essentially round and has no sides, but they are one of the more powerful nations in NATO. Think about it.

Russia is nothing w/o their huge advantage in oil/natural gas resources financing their economic & military expansionism. Yet another reason to drill here/drill now.

Mandy, in fact McCain has been saying just that. And has been pooh-poohed by the MSM and the Obama camp.

This war is a direct result of Stalin's policies -- the countries of the former Soviet Union are still paying for what Stalin wrought, decades after the fact.

Stalin, craving more and more territory, and especially wanting to expand southward, forced millions of ethnic Russians to move to the southern Republics (like Georgia, Uzbekistan, and Chechnya), to "overwhelm" the natives demographically. Problem with this attempted ethnic cleansing is that it stopped halfway, so that all these places ended with with sharp Balkan-style ethnic divisions. One the Soviet Union collapsed, the old ethnic hatreds erupted again.

re: #26 Dianna

Question: Are we going to let them reincorporate Georgia as a province of Imperial Russia?

More serious answer, is exactly who do you mean by 'we'?

If the rest of NATO doesn't wake up, and what are the odds, the US is just piss tired of going it alone.

Russia has publically hog-tied the UN, I think the US ambassador ought to propose shutting down the UN officially, rezone the area agricultural.

This meme of the left that Georgia started it has to stop. They invaded their own country after the Russians occupied a portion of it and handed out Russian passports. The argument that the West did the same thing in Kosovo is not only childish but irrelevant. The Kosovo action may have been questionable but it was caused by massive human rights violations on the part of the Serbian army throughout the region after the breakup of Yugoslavia. That simply does not apply to the Georgian case.

re: #100 Alouette

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

Massive explosion in Toronto. Will be written off as accidental, lousy storage, no connection whatever to terrorism. No matter what the real case might be. What more is there to discuss?

Bear with me here.

South Ossetia wanted independence. WTF, why? When you know you are vulnerable --or at least surrounded by bullies, why would you want to be stand all by your lonesome?

Kinda reminds me of the group that wants a Free Alaska --why would a state sitting on lots of oil and just a short raft trip away from Russia want free themselves of American Military protection?

Sorry, antibiotics have kicked-in and my brain is de-fuzzed. Just getting to where I can think again.

re: #100 Alouette

It looks like a Industrial Accident...who knows the Canadian media isn't saying anything that makes any sense.

According to wikipedia- Georgia was promised membership in NATO. I would think it would be in NATO's interests to stand up for Georgia now, lest any future countries who've been promised membership think NATO won't be there for them in their time of need.

re: #92 MandyManners

He may have his foilables on domestic policy, but when it comes to foreign policy McCain is very good.

re: #90 Dianna

I think he might settle for the old Russian Empire...but I don't think I'll count on that.

No, the Baltic States are still an issue for Russia, as there are a lot of ethnic Russians in those countries who do not think of themselves as Lithuanian, Latvian, or Estonian and complain that they are discriminated against (probably true to some extent) and would welcome the Soviet Russian Gazprom tanks rumbling over the border.

re: #86 Charles

OT notice: I am completely fed up with these delusional Obama birth certificate stories, and I'm going to delete any and all links that are posted about it. This morning someone posted a link to a blog that cited LARRY JOHNSON as a source for this, despite Johnson's long history of fraud and lies.

I do not want this garbage at LGF. Don't post links to it here.

I would also say that you cannot prove a virgin birth. You must have faith.

re: #81 jemima

The leftists would be happy with a Soviet type diet. "I'm too fat anyway, cabbage will fine but I'll pass on the potatoes."

the leftists don't think they will be eating peasant food.
they intend to dine on caviar.
we'll get the slop.

re: #100 Alouette

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

Any indications it might be ROPer economic sabotage?

re: #100 Alouette

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

Propane factories (propane is manufactured) do explode from time to time.

re: #92 MandyManners

A bloody delegation?!

Great. Let's dither and wring our hands. That will help so very much, while Russia bombs undefended civilians.

Just freakin' peachy.

Excuse me. I think I'm losing my temper. I shall take a break.

re: #99 galloping granny

No shit?

re: #101 Truck Monkey

Oh- I know, and I think it's good they're not taking the side of the Russians, but you'll forgive me if I make a little joke.

bbiab

re: #100 Alouette

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

Linky?

All I see on the news sites is that Clay Aiken is a father.

re: #116 pat

Propane factories (propane is manufactured) do explode from time to time.

True, but they can also be made to explode. Lot's of ROPers in Canada.

re: #104 zombie

This war is a direct result of Stalin's policies --

I Believe Stalin was from Georgia.

re: #124 DeafDog

I Believe Stalin was from Georgia.

Yup.

re: #94 realwest

And now the Ukraine has said it may not allow the Russian naval squadron to get back to it's base
in the Caspian sea.

Correction. It's the Black Sea.

re: #124 DeafDog

I Believe Stalin was from Georgia.

Irony never sleeps.

re: #122 itellu3times

Blame for both (Aiken and Toronto) can be squarely rested on Bush.

Case closed, now, let's here more about Edwards . .

/arghhhhhhhh!

re: #94 realwest

Sorry, it's the Black Sea, not the Caspian Sea.

re: #110 Sharmuta

According to wikipedia- Georgia was promised membership in NATO. I would think it would be in NATO's interests to stand up for Georgia now, lest any future countries who've been promised membership think NATO won't be there for them in their time of need.

I think that Georgia is also one of the countries that Russia has been issuing dire warnings to about even thinking of hosting an early warning site for the US missile defense system.

/which tells me they have every intention of using those missiles.

But you'll note that he dropped his Georgian name, once he entered poilitics.

re: #124 DeafDog

I Believe Stalin was from Georgia.

Jimmy Carter too. Why do the worst of the Bolsheviks seem to come from Georgia?.... :)

re: #100 Alouette

How come nobody wants to talk about the massive explosion in Toronto?

That's 2 in recent years, people may not want to live/work near them.

re: #124 DeafDog

Ah, so we can't let the birthplace of the grand whatever leave the motherland . . .

yes, I see.

on the one hand Russia fights a multiyear bloody war in Chechnya to prevent that region from seceding.

On the other hand Russia encourages South Ossetia to secede from Georgia (and thus join Russia.)

Makes perfect sense, if you consider Russia's desire to maintain its power in the region.

Usually propane is stored in an open field, well away from other gases. So the explosions are impressive, but cause little damage.

re: #100 Alouette

Because I hadn't heard about it - sorry. I've been chasing the Georgia-Russia story.

In brief, what happened?

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

The anti-war movement as it presently exists was created by the Soviets. Tyrannophila is an inherent characteristic of it.

re: #132 sbvft contributor

lol

So, ultimately, it's Catharine the Great who is to blame for all of this?

(Great Russian Expansion pathology)

re: #118 MandyManners

No shit?

Yeah - that second paragraph at least is a big part of his official statement from yesterday. Couple of sites have the whole thing, along with the contrasting "statement" from Obama.

I was impressed that he had already talked twice to the President of Georgia yesterday. Mac is a good guy.

re: #105 itellu3times

If Europe's that stupid, they deserve what they get.

#132 ... Funny ...

But Georgia did redeem itself with Zell Miller.

re: #32 zombie

Anybody know what country has the "lv" domain? Because I'm getting a lot of links from blogs there linking to my Up Your Alley event.

Wish I knew what they were saying! Weird-looking language.

I only understood a few words. Miller Brewing Company?

Neskatoties uz negatīvo publicitāti pēc pagājušajā gada pasākumiem, viens no galvenajiem sponsoriem joprojām esot Miller Brewing Company (arī MillerCoors). Šī kompānija savukart pieder pie SABMiller - vienas no pasaules lielākajām alus darītavu "apvienībām".

re: #140 ggt

So, ultimately, it's Catharine the Great who is to blame for all of this?

(Great Russian Expansion pathology)

Yes, and yet the leftists call the USA an "imperialist" nation.

The Discovery Institute's Russia Blog wants us to believe that Russian Authoritarianism is just a misconception. So this foray into Georgia can't be due to imperialism. And if you can't trust the Discovery Institute to tell you like it is, who can you trust?

///

Ooooh, these are the modern descendants of the Alans. I didn't realize that. I once studied the Alans a bit. Dark Ages history is actually pretty interesting.

re: #131 zombie

He adopted "Stalin" (and several other names) in accordance with underground practice at the time.

re: #140 ggt

The largest expansion of Russian territory occurred under Ivan IV, otherwise known as "The Terrible."

That's when Russia claimed Siberia.

re: #63 realwest

Realwest sorry for the delay,

Realwest,

What I am trying to put across is that Mikhail acted just like Mahmoud Ahmedinejad and Hugo Chavez, leaders of shitholes acting like completely disrespectful punks, totally pissing of the great powers with impunity in the region till they get their asses kicked.

You can call it the Iron Fist theory of Geopolitics.

re: #147 zombie

Dark Ages is a misnomer. And, yes, it is very interesting.

So is this what we get for recognizing Kosovo's independence? I believe Russia did warn us that there might be long run consequences regarding Kosovo statehood.

re: #132 sbvft contributor

Jimmy Carter too. Why do the worst of the Bolsheviks seem to come from Georgia?.... :)

Hah!

Side note - I work with folks from Atlanta. At their office there are TVs in the elevator. I got an e-mail from a guy Friday who was riding the elevator with a young lady of the blonde persuasion. The elevator TVs were broadcasting that Russia had invaded Georgia and the young lady was ashen..."How is that even possible?" she asked.

re: #130 galloping granny

I think that Georgia is also one of the countries that Russia has been issuing dire warnings to about even thinking of hosting an early warning site for the US missile defense system.

/which tells me they have every intention of using those missiles.

From NY Sun in 2007.

MOSCOW — Georgia risked provoking a furious response from its powerful Russian neighbor yesterday by saying it was prepared to host part of America's new missile defense shield.

Gela Bezhuashvili, the Georgian foreign minister, said his country was ready, if asked, to join the Czech Republic and Poland in allowing its territory to be used for the deployment of new missile batteries and radar sites.

"If the Americans came and told us they wanted to, we are certainly minded to talk with them about it," said Mr. Bezhuashvili. "There is no formal application, not even informal discussions. But if they ask for help, we will talk with them."

SNIP

Peter the Great commenced the Ottoman rollback. It was a sad day when he struck peace with the Ottomans so he could wage war against Sweden in the Baltics. He had the Ottomans about ready to abandon Europe.

where's Obama stand on all this ?

re: #149 Dianna

It would be terrible to want Siberia. yes?

oh, and thanks for the clarification.

re: #122 itellu3times

Linky?

All I see on the news sites is that Clay Aiken is a father.

Clay Aiken is a boy? Who knew.....

re: #143 _RememberTonyC

#132 ... Funny ...

But Georgia did redeem itself with Zell Miller.

True dat. Spitballs!

gotta go.

Have a great day all!

re: #138 The Other Les

The anti-war movement as it presently exists was created by the Soviets. Tyrannophila is an inherent characteristic of it.

As are many if not all of the various groups involved. Oldsters like me will recognize Students for a Democratic Society and the International Solidarity Movement (still active on college campuses today) as prime players from the 60s - and known Communist organizations.

re: #126 lifeofthemind
Thanks for the correction, but the point still stands.

re: #147 zombie

Ooooh, these are the modern descendants of the Alans. I didn't realize that. I once studied the Alans a bit. Dark Ages history is actually pretty interesting.

Attila and the Huns came crashing through and the tribes that were wandering around the Eurasian plains as the Roman Empire collapsed suddenly scattered in all directions.

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Just let him hang 10.

re: #142 Dianna

If Europe's that stupid, they deserve what they get.

I'm confused, what do you mean by 'If'?

Here's a link about Toronto, where apparently a propane plant blew up. Had to go search it on Google to find reports!

Maybe it was attacked by Russian stealth bombers.

re: #158 Truck Monkey

Clay Aiken is a boy? Who knew.....

There was apparently massive technological assistance involved.

re: #147 zombie

Ooooh, these are the modern descendants of the Alans. I didn't realize that. I once studied the Alans a bit. Dark Ages history is actually pretty interesting.

Here's some history.

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...]

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Forgainst, of course

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

All over the map.

re: #143 _RememberTonyC

#132 ... Funny ...

But Georgia did redeem itself with Zell Miller.

Minus major points for giving the world Cynthia McKinney.

re: #150 Westward Ho
Well I don't know if you were referring to LGF's Iron Fist (who wouldn't kill civilians) or the idea of Might Makes Right, but regardless, the killing of civilians in Georgian cities and now at the International (Civilian) Airport in Georgia is not the sort of thing one would expect to be supported on LGF.

re: #40 MandyManners

Putin doesn't want just South Ossetia and Abkhazia. He wants Georgia, too.

"A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France..."

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Just let him eat his pineapple.

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Everywhere and nowhere.

"Mr. Putin, rebuild this wall!"

/doh-bama

re: #164 MandyManners

Just let him hang 10.

actually, I found out from HotAir that he's already flip-flopped. Surprised ?

re: #172 The Other Les

"A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France..."

So help me, I'd rather deal with Islam. Putin has a lot of missiles.

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

He recommended the Georgians check their tire pressure.

re: #137 Dianna

Because I hadn't heard about it - sorry. I've been chasing the Georgia-Russia story.

In brief, what happened?

Check the spinoffs.

re: #140 ggt

So, ultimately, it's Catherine the Great who is to blame for all of this?

(Great Russian Expansion pathology)

And wasn't she German? How does one spell "liebensraum" in Cyrillic?

re: #176 noshariaincanada

actually, I found out from HotAir that he's already flip-flopped. Surprised ?

He needs to stay on the porch and let the big dogs figure this out.

re: #141 galloping granny

Yeah - that second paragraph at least is a big part of his official statement from yesterday. Couple of sites have the whole thing, along with the contrasting "statement" from Obama.

I was impressed that he had already talked twice to the President of Georgia yesterday. Mac is a good guy.

i think mccain has good instincts. unlike the bumbling pontificator, b.o., mccain can see the issues and formulate some coherent thoughts that are not just abt. him.

Is this the change that Obama believes in?

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

He urged diplomacy until somebody read John MacCain for him and he looked up what side to be on.

re: #72 Dianna

Europe had better realize that they are about to let Russia control their energy completely.

They know that - after all, some are making a nice load of money from those 'deals', the former German Chancellor Schroeder (he was a leftie ...) right amongst them ...

re: #48 FrogMarch

Up next - a roll of lies from the Kremlin.

More of the usual Soviet Russian propaganda.

See the children give flowers to the Soviet Russian soldiers at about 1:30 on the video.

re: #154 MandyManners
Huh, wonder what that means for Poland and Czechoslovakia? If the U.S. doesn't stand by Georgia, why would Poland expect us to stand by them (iirc, Poland also has troops in Iraq)?

Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

re: #150 Westward Ho

You can call it the Iron Fist theory of Geopolitics.

If you think that you are too drunk too overthrow a country; you are.

re: #156 noshariaincanada Great Question! Anyone hear anything from Obama at all?

re: #183 pat

I think the change Obama believes in is the coins you get back after buying something. Everything else is about him.

re: #185 yma o hyd

Of course the Euris are weasals and/or crooks.

re: #162 realwest

Thanks for the correction, but the point still stands.

Of course. It is complicated. Azeri (Moslem) oil needs to traverse either Russia and Chechnya (Moslem territory the Russians are invading) or a new pipeline through Georgia. There is a long standing dispute between the Azeris and the Armenians because Stalis nationalities policy deliberately set up the enclave of Nagorno-karabakh that Armenia invaded. The Armenians of course hate the Turks because of the genocide of 1915 that the Turks refuse to admit. Is everyone following this?

re: #155 pat

Peter the Great commenced the Ottoman rollback. It was a sad day when he struck peace with the Ottomans so he could wage war against Sweden in the Baltics. He had the Ottomans about ready to abandon Europe.

The Crimean War pitted the UK, France and the Ottomans against the Russians. The UK was very worried about the Russians becoming a major player, and worked against them in more than a couple instances. Had England not sided with the Turks, the Russians may have taken back Constantinople at some point.

#187 realwest Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

That would interfere with the ass-kissing fest in bejing.

re: #180 Spiny Norman

And wasn't she German? How does one spell "liebensraum" in Cyrillic?

Yes she was German. By the time the Tsar was overthrown each and every one of the royal families of Europe was close to 100% German - including the British royal family, who changed their name from house of Hanover to house of Windsor at the beginning of WWI. All of whom were directly related to Victoria. WWI was the single biggest family feud in history.

re: #187 realwest

Huh, wonder what that means for Poland and Czechoslovakia? If the U.S. doesn't stand by Georgia, why would Poland expect us to stand by them (iirc, Poland also has troops in Iraq)?

Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

What is Pres. Bush supposed to do? Go to war with Russia?

re: #192 lifeofthemind

Yes, though you're giving the short version.

re: #182 nyc redneck

i think mccain has good instincts. unlike the bumbling pontificator, b.o., mccain can see the issues and formulate some coherent thoughts that are not just abt. him.

Foreign policy has always been one of MacCain's interests and one of his strong suits.

"It's none of our business"

Patrick J. Buchanan

re: #196 MandyManners

What is Pres. Bush supposed to do? Go to war with Russia?

Effectively, yes.

re: #172 The Other Les

"A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France..."

Peace is vhat ve vant und vill haf unkluding und piece of anyting you haf.
- Bored of the Rings

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

He stands wherever you want him to stand.

re: #1 JammieWearingFool

Funny how silent the anti-war left is these days.

Privately, they must be giggling like crazy.

re: #187 realwest

Huh, wonder what that means for Poland and Czechoslovakia? If the U.S. doesn't stand by Georgia, why would Poland expect us to stand by them (iirc, Poland also has troops in Iraq)?

Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

Well I think there is a huge difference between Georgia and Poland and Czech. Both in geographical terms and in geopolitical terms. I think President Bush should definitely make the Soviets ( and I use the term soviets here instead of Russia to characterize what I think Putin is up to ) pay for this. But it other than material and moral support, I am not sure how far we can or should go in helping.

re: #187 realwest

Huh, wonder what that means for Poland and Czechoslovakia? If the U.S. doesn't stand by Georgia, why would Poland expect us to stand by them (iirc, Poland also has troops in Iraq)?

Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

George Will said this morning on "This Week" that GW should get his ass back to Washington and deal with this. Too busy patting volleyball players on the bum I guess.........can u blame him?

Anyone hear from "Russian Expert" Condoleezza Rice?

Maybe she can be pried away from spending her time concerned that Israel is not allowing Gazan terrorists to get a US education.

re: #196 MandyManners

What is Pres. Bush supposed to do? Go to war with Russia?

I think that is what Putin wants Mandy. And go look at the map. Georgia is just about a spit and a stone's throw from the northern border of Iraq. Iran on one side, Syria (long time Russian satellite) on the other.

Add in the threat last week from Iran to close the Straights.

I don't like the way things stack up for sure.

More on the Georgian airport:

Russian jets were still carrying out bombing raids late on Sunday. Witnesses said jets had hit Tbilisi International Airport, as well as a military airfield close to the Georgian capital.

A Georgian official said Russian planes had also bombed the western town of Zugdidi and Georgian-controlled territory inside Abkhazia. The claims could not be independently verified.

The attack on the airport came only a few hours before the scheduled arrival of French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, on a peace mission.

re: #187 realwest

Huh, wonder what that means for Poland and Czechoslovakia? If the U.S. doesn't stand by Georgia, why would Poland expect us to stand by them (iirc, Poland also has troops in Iraq)?

Bush needs to get his ass in gear, pronto.

Poland and the Czech Republic are already NATO members. Any attack against their territorial integrity would trigger an 'armed response' by the rest of the Alliance member states. Or so the story goes.

[Link: www.nato.int...]

Belmont Club is covering and commenting on events, suggests Gori will be the military decision point. The question is whether Russia will advance on that point. I think the answer is yes, the Russian military is obviously driving events, and will find it irresistable.

map

(Gori is small city just east of Tbilisi)

I'm not being facetious so please don't take this the wrong way.

What can we do? As we know (and Barack 'Surge in Afghanistan' Obama doesn't), one size doesn't fit all where these foreign affairs are concerned.

As I've said before, this conflict chills me to the bone. I want to be able to see a clear option for the US, but it's hard to wrap my head around it.

Anyone got any ideas?

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Doing his best Rodney King impersonation..."Why can't we all just get a long"...

re: #204 Nevergiveup

Well I think there is a huge difference between Georgia and Poland and Czech. Both in geographical terms and in geopolitical terms. I think President Bush should definitely make the Soviets ( and I use the term soviets here instead of Russia to characterize what I think Putin is up to ) pay for this. But it other than material and moral support, I am not sure how far we can or should go in helping.

The announcement from the ukrain to not allow 'soviet' warships to return to port was good stuff. To the extent that these sort of diplomatic coups can be arranged they need to be made. Strong world support against the 'soviets' may push the ruskies out....it's worth a try.

re: #199 opinionated

"It's none of our business"

Patrick J. Buchanan

"The invasion of Georgia would never have happened if the Georgians were not so foolish as to covet their own territory on a week in which the Olympics were scheduled."

Patrick Buchanan

re: #206 opinionated

Anyone hear from "Russian Expert" Condoleezza Rice?

Maybe she can be pried away from spending her time concerned that Israel is not allowing Gazan terrorists to get a US education.

Yeah. Condi. Snort. I presume she's also in Beijing, negotiating to become the next volleyball czarina in 2009.

From The Astute Bloggers...

PIPELINE WAR: AZERBAIJAN HALTS OIL FLOW THROUGH GEORGIA

"We should definitely empty our strategic petroleum reserve immediately."

/doh-bama

re: #195 galloping granny

Sorry, House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha

re: #186 The Other Les

Forgot the link

re: #207 galloping granny

I think that is what Putin wants Mandy. And go look at the map. Georgia is just about a spit and a stone's throw from the northern border of Iraq. Iran on one side, Syria (long time Russian satellite) on the other.

Add in the threat last week from Iran to close the Straights.

I don't like the way things stack up for sure.

Nor do I.

re: #211 kynna

Georgia has been promised NATO membership- they should be granted full NATO protection right now, and the Russians told to back off or they'll have all of NATO to deal with. Let Russia either then back off, or push their luck.

re: #208 Sharmuta

More on the Georgian airport:

Oh, no.

re: #148 MikeySDCA

Stalin's initial alias was Koba, after the hero of a novel. Most of the Old Bolsheviks addressed him, and spoke of him, as Koba.

re: #207 galloping granny

... Add in the threat last week from Iran to close the Straights.

I don't like the way things stack up for sure.

Well, Iran says that a lot, so I'd discount it. But remember WWI and the way things can snowball out of control.

If they haven't already.

Putin has bet they will not.

Interesting that the American volleyball team is coached by a ChiCom star.

re: #213 DeafDog

The announcement from the ukrain to not allow 'soviet' warships to return to port was good stuff. To the extent that these sort of diplomatic coups can be arranged they need to be made. Strong world support against the 'soviets' may push the ruskies out....it's worth a try.

I agree. It may be time to start kicking some ruskie ass out of certain international organizations. The G-8 comes to mind.

re: #217 MikeySDCA

Sorry, House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha

Oh, you are correct. Victoria was the last Hanover.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Perhaps Russia is more interested in maintaining $150 a barrel oil and a strangle hold on European energy supplies than "World Peace" and EU prosperity. Seems that they have found a way to accomplish this goal and it is unlikely that any OPEC states will have a real problem with Russia's actions.

re: #188 swamprat I.F., I will treasure that rating for a long, long time.

re: #155 pat

Ah, no.

The Ottomans were pretty weak by the time Peter came to power.

re: #216 rorschach

"We should definitely empty our strategic petroleum reserve immediately."

/doh-bama

You know, if there is an actual constriction in world supply as a result of this action, then that is not a bad use of the SPR. Incidents lik this are exactly the reason that we should not have released the reserves just because of price increases.

re: #216 rorschach

"PIPELINE WAR: AZERBAIJAN HALTS OIL FLOW THROUGH GEORGIA

Well, if I was operations manager for the line, I think I'd halt the flow about now, too.

re: #222 Dianna

Stalin's initial alias was Koba, after the hero of a novel. Most of the Old Bolsheviks addressed him, and spoke of him, as Koba.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

re: #42 Colonel Panik

Lativa? Are they suing roman characters or cyrillic? Latvians use roman characters and the language looks somewhat like Finnish.

Judging from the words in the link I'm guessing Latvia.

Who is suing Lativa? What happened?
- Emily Litella

re: #214 pat

"The invasion of Georgia would never have happened if the Georgians were not so foolish as to covet their own territory on a week in which the Olympics were scheduled."

Patrick Buchanan

WTF?

Are you kidding?

re: #221 MandyManners

Oh, no.

"Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday morning, but had still been bombed by Russian planes. He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire."

Hmmmm. Must be something wrong with Czar Putin's receiver. Right.

re: #223 itellu3times

Well, Iran says that a lot, so I'd discount it. But remember WWI and the way things can snowball out of control.

If they haven't already.

Putin has bet they will not.

Putin has bet that we will back down. Or that he, Iran and Syria have collectively decapitated us. Mark my words: this is not about Georgia. It is about US.

re: #226 galloping granny

Hanover by birth, but SCG by marriage. Victoria held no Hanoverian title, due to Salic Law.

A year ago.

Russia has committed an "act of aggression" against Georgia by firing a guided missile at its territory, officials in Tbilisi say.
They say the missile landed outside the village of Tsitelubani on Monday, some 60km (37 miles) north-west of the capital Tbilisi, but did not explode.

Georgia has now made a formal protest to Russia over the incident. Moscow denies all the accusations.

Relations between the two countries have been strained in recent years.

Moscow is angry about Georgia's plans to join Nato, while Tbilisi accuses Russia of trying to destabilise Georgia.

SNIP

South Ossetia's leader Eduard Kokoiti said Georgian planes fired the missile to discredit Russia.

"This is a well-planned provocation," said Mr Kokoiti, who holds Russian citizenship.

SNIP

re: #234 The Other Les

yes

re: #49 zombie

I didn't eat it myself: I just had to lie perfectly still.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Sushi server?

re: #156 noshariaincanada

where's Obama stand on all this ?

Your standard man-of-the world progressive flip flop.

re: #220 Sharmuta

The problem there is that the rest of the NATO countries are in no position to take offensive military action to back up those kinds of threats. They can barely handle their responsibilities in Afghanistan, so why would they stick their necks out for the Georgians? Realpolitik is a bitch, and right now, the Russians know that they can do what they want without repercussions.

The Ukrainians are probably the best hope to thwart those Russian ambitions right now since they hold the trump card of the Russian Black Sea fleet homeport. Ukraine has pretty much told the Russians that if their ships are used in the fight against Georgia, they're not welcomed back in the Ukraine. That leaves them without a port or facilities, and the Ukrainians have a sizable military force as well.

re: #192 lifeofthemind

Of course. It is complicated. Azeri (Moslem) oil needs to traverse either Russia and Chechnya (Moslem territory the Russians are invading) or a new pipeline through Georgia. There is a long standing dispute between the Azeris and the Armenians because Stalis nationalities policy deliberately set up the enclave of Nagorno-karabakh that Armenia invaded. The Armenians of course hate the Turks because of the genocide of 1915 that the Turks refuse to admit. Is everyone following this?

Yep - and to make it even more interesting, the pipeline ends in Northern Turkey, where it was attacked by Kurd rebels a few days ago - Mandy Manners linked the story on one of the threads below.

re: #224 pat

I saw a story on that last night. Disgrcaeful. Call me old-fashioned, but what the hell is an American doing helping the ChiComs beat us in volleyball? TRAITOR. Send this coach to Club Gitmo. Yesterday.

re: #211 kynna

What can we do? As we know (and Barack 'Surge in Afghanistan' Obama doesn't), one size doesn't fit all where these foreign affairs are concerned.

As I've said before, this conflict chills me to the bone. I want to be able to see a clear option for the US, but it's hard to wrap my head around it.

Anyone got any ideas?

There's probably nothing we can do. Some air support perhaps. But I still believe that America is on its way to becoming a paper tiger (for a variety of reasons). All the righties who wanted America to become isolationist, and all the lefties who wanted a world where the US is militarily weak are slowly starting to get their wish. And it won't turn out to be the paradise they imagined.

re: #230 DeafDog

Actually, it still wouldn't be a good use of the SPR since the oil supply to the US isn't constricted - most of our oil imported comes from Canada, KSA, and Mexico.

"We will not allow the deaths of our fellow citizens to go unpunished. The perpetrators will receive the punishment they deserve."

DMITRY MEDVEDEV

Israel should shove this statement in Russia's face anytime they dare criticize an Israeli response to the barbarians.

re: #243 lawhawk

The problem there is that the rest of the NATO countries are in no position to take offensive military action to back up those kinds of threats. They can barely handle their responsibilities in Afghanistan, so why would they stick their necks out for the Georgians? Realpolitik is a bitch, and right now, the Russians know that they can do what they want without repercussions.

The Ukrainians are probably the best hope to thwart those Russian ambitions right now since they hold the trump card of the Russian Black Sea fleet homeport. Ukraine has pretty much told the Russians that if their ships are used in the fight against Georgia, they're not welcomed back in the Ukraine. That leaves them without a port or facilities, and the Ukrainians have a sizable military force as well.

KIEV, Ukraine - Ukraine warned Russia on Sunday it could bar Russian navy ships from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast.

Ukraine's Foreign Ministry said the deployment of a Russian naval squadron to Georgia's Black sea coast has the potential of drawing Ukraine into the conflict

SNIP

Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

[Link: www.nato.int...]

re: #243 lawhawk

And the Ukrainians have a vested interest in seeing the Russian bear doesn't get up a head of steam. It seems I remember that Ukraine is on that long list of Provence's to be reacquired!

re: #229 Dianna

Ah, no.

The Ottomans were pretty weak by the time Peter came to power.

Because Jan Sobieski, the King of Poland, kicked the crap out of them at Vienna.

The left calls GWB a war criminal for going to the UN to get permission for attacks on Iraq.. and our own congress..I think they say they didn't know what they were voteing to allow.. Putin goes into invasion without a peep from the left.. I guess they will learn later what he expects them to vote for.

re: #64 Desert Dog

canada is the only country in the world with oil thats not a criminal gangster state

re: #254 pegcity

oh and norway

re: #247 lawhawk

Actually, it still wouldn't be a good use of the SPR since the oil supply to the US isn't constricted - most of our oil imported comes from Canada, KSA, and Mexico.

According to that logic, there are not two prices of oil: (1) a North American price and (2) a European price. But that's not how it works. It's a global energy market and the price reflects global demand. If the SPR could ease the pain in Western Europe, it would benefit both the US and are European 'sometimes allies."

re: #216 rorschach

"We should definitely empty our strategic petroleum reserve immediately."

/doh-bama

Don't forget Nancy P. Lousy. She said that too.

re: #254 pegcity

canada is the only country in the world with oil thats not a criminal gangster state

You forget Norway and the UK (North Sea).

George Bush- I looked in Putin's eyes and saw a good soul

John McCain- I looked into Putin's eyes and saw three letters- KGB

re: #253 BingoBunny

The left calls GWB a war criminal for going to the UN to get permission for attacks on Iraq.. and our own congress..I think they say they didn't know what they were voteing to allow.. Putin goes into invasion without a peep from the left.. I guess they will learn later what he expects them to vote for.

Note that the Congress is gone for 4 more weeks.

And if Bush does anything at all militarily then he risks the election for McCain.

Like I said, we are being decapitated.

re: #257 Colonel Panik

Don't forget Nancy P. Lousy. She said that too.

Can we call her Putin's whore now?

re: #259 Opinionated

George Bush- I looked in Putin's eyes and saw a good soul

John McCain- I looked into Putin's eyes and saw three letters- KGB

Obama- I looked in Putin's eyes, and who is Putin again?