I'd love to see the Disco Institute's "chronology" of John Edwards' lies.

they are poking us in the eyes

re: #2 taxfreekiller

We have put up with Russia long enough, all the dead in Vietnam are dead via Russia, all the ones in Iraq, via Iran, Russian doings.

Don't forget the Fwench.

Oh no. Bad made worse. But then, Russia is involved.

This is a perfect time to elect as POTUS a crypto-Marxist! Oh, wait, no, it isn't.

Georgia is a friend of the US.
Georgia is trying very hard to be representative democracy.
Russia has been escalating since Putin took power.

I think it's time to render aid to Georgian. Airlift of hardware and supplies, even air support.

I believe this is one of those times it is necessary to show our core values as a country mean something.

The new forays into Georgia — even after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge — appeared to show Russian determination to subdue the small, U.S.-backed country, which has been pressing for NATO membership.

No calls of War Crimes? Nothing from the UN or the ICC or any other group claims to care about international relations?

I'd like to believe our administration will do anything about this besides bluster.

Alas I cannot, and another western democracy bites the dust.

re: #7 jcm

Georgia is a friend of the US.
Georgia is trying very hard to be representative democracy.
Russia has been escalating since Putin took power.

I think it's time to render aid to Georgian. Airlift of hardware and supplies, even air support.

I believe this is one of those times it is necessary to show our core values as a country mean something.

By doing nothing.

Not that I agree with doing nothing, but that is what we will do.

The Russians went down to Georgia,
they were looking for some land to steal...

Sorry, Charlie Daniels... I leave it up to someone else to complete because I just can't get the creative juices a-flowin'.

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, it is a U.S. backed country pressing for NATO membership (read satellite-puppet state that's oppressing South Ossetia like it was Palestine or something.)

/

re: #7 jcm

Georgia is a friend of the US.
Georgia is trying very hard to be representative democracy.
Russia has been escalating since Putin took power.

I think it's time to render aid to Georgian. Airlift of hardware and supplies, even air support.

I believe this is one of those times it is necessary to show our core values as a country mean something.

Agreed.

re: #10 Ben Hur

By doing nothing.

Not that I agree with doing nothing, but that is what we will do.

Oh, we'll do something. Maybe we'll send a letter expressing concern and maybe a fact finding committee in a few months to see how bad it was.

Georgia is waiting for our help. they have been our friend and have giving treasure and lives to help us. will we help them?

this is a TRUE war for oil... how will the US respond.
are there any good options? this is getting scary.

Kragar,

The new forays into Georgia — even after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge — appeared to show Russian determination to subdue the small, U.S.-backed country, which has been pressing for NATO membership.

No calls of War Crimes? Nothing from the UN or the ICC or any other group claims to care about international relations?

There's the dreaded "U.S. backed" label too.

It's all to get McCain elected.

See the spin-offs.

And on this facepalming moment of frustration, I shall head to bed. G'night.

'Chronology matters' - indeed it does, so does a proper definition of the 'species' one looks at. Isn't it amazing that according to Mr Armstrong South Ossetia is a proper republic - and not an integral part of Georgia?
I've linked this editorial comment from the TIMES/London
in a thread further down - it is Russia which is interfering in the internal affairs of Georgia, not Georgia attacking a poor, helpless nation ...

And as for chronology - yeah, right, as if Russia hadn't planned for this coup for quite a long time, as Lizards well versed in military matters have been pointing out already.

re: #16 Dirk Diggler

Kragar,

There's the dreaded "U.S. backed" label too.

That's the one thing worse than saying "Jew."

RUSSIA - fast becoming the nation that can't take YES for an answer.

-S-

re: #10 Ben Hur

By doing nothing.

Not that I agree with doing nothing, but that is what we will do.

*spit*
You're probably right.
Rhineland '36.
Stop it now. or Stop it later.

What is the population of Russia?

I think Georgia's is 4 million.

So you could understand how this is a holocaust against Russia.

re: #16 Dirk Diggler

Kragar,

There's the dreaded "U.S. backed" label too.

It's showing up in many places/reports. Infuriating.

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No calls of War Crimes? Nothing from the UN or the ICC or any other group claims to care about international relations?

Yeah - interesting, innit - where is the condemnation from the UN?

Georgia's going to get hosed. Bush isn't going to do a damn thing.

And Russia has been waging cyberwar against Georgia; the official Georgian government sites are redirected to servers in Russia and Turkey.
Cyberattacks knock out Georgia's Internet presence

"Many of Georgia's Internet servers were under external control from late Thursday," Armin said early Saturday in an entry on his Web site. According to his research, the government's sites dedicated to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Defense, and the country's president, Mikhail Saakashvili, have been blocked completely, or traffic to and from those sites' servers have been redirected to servers actually located in Russia and Turkey.

re: #22 jcm

*spit*
You're probably right.
Rhineland '36.
Stop it now. or Stop it later.

Don't worry. Obama will negotiate "peace in our time".
/do I need to?

This is an object lesson in why we cannot allow Iran to get nukes.

re: #24 scottishbuzzsaw

It's showing up in many places/reports. Infuriating.

Well, you know, the smarter than thou elitist journos who in reality know no more than you and I and were probably sent to Georgia after covering Broadway plays, want us to focus on the "Big Picture."

re: #25 yma o hyd

Yeah - interesting, innit - where is the condemnation from the UN?

Blocked by Russia's UNSC veto power.

Europe will do nothing, the Russian energy tit is too far down their throats. this could be the first step into regaining their superpower empire back.

those evil Jews... er Zionist also support Georgia.
will this get more attention than John Edwards?

i have many questions help me lizards

PK,

Georgia's going to get hosed. Bush isn't going to do a damn thing.

What would you propose he do?

Is it bad form to wish simultaneous balinitis and multiple bleeding hemorrhoids on Vlad Putin?

re: #25 yma o hyd

Yeah - interesting, innit - where is the condemnation from the UN?

They're too busy writing condemnations of Israel and the US in advance.
Either that, or they're still trying to blame this on Israel.

So where are the useful idiots? They make a lot of noise if one poor Iraqi or Afghan gets caught in the crossfire but are strangely quiet as Russian forces bomb civilians in an outright manner.

Iraq's Malika had better pick up the action because we're needed elsewhere by better friends, the eastern Georgians who really like us, enough to support Iraq's fight for freedom.

re: #33 Dirk Diggler

PK,

What would you propose he do?

Raise his voice a little.

And sit up straight when in an effen chair being interviewed.

And to stop looking at the ceiling when answering questions.

That would be a good start.

Note to all other USA allies ( that means you also Israel ): You had better be able to defend your own interests. Kind words from the USA may be all you get in time!

re: #7 jcm

It's already far too late.

I assume you think the US should do something, as opposed to say the rest of NATO. Maybe Turkey should send 50,000 troops to help Georgia? B-52 flights out of Batman, show the Russians what a few hundred Paveways look like up close? Maybe a barrage of cruise missiles, could be there in a few hours, but aimed at what? The Russian army may be clunky, but it's not the Taliban.

Any counter to Russia will have to be political and economic. They appear to be apeshit crazy. If this doesn't wake up the rest of NATO, well then.

re: #33 Dirk Diggler

Be persuasive.

re: #36 ducktrapper

So where are the useful idiots? They make a lot of noise if one poor Iraqi or Afghan gets caught in the crossfire but are strangely quiet as Russian forces bomb civilians in an outright manner.

* * *
2,000 killed this weekend by Russia! Where's the outrage? Anyone hear reports of any jihadi catching a cold in Guantanamo?

the US is Flying Georgian troops home. Could Russia interpret this as action by the US against them?

In this kind of conflict a SEAL team on the ground and a B-2 orbiting loaded with 80 JDAMs better yet JSOWs would make a significant difference.

re: #31 victor_yugo

as though we needed more evidence that the UN is at best useless.

re: #43 blutonazi98

the US is Flying Georgian troops home. Could Russia interpret this as action by the US against them?

* * *
They already have said something to that effect.

re: #17 Ben Hur

It's all to get McCain elected.

See the spin-offs.

A-ma-zing!
What blithering idiots are posting at Huffpo - that one takes the biscuit!

Russian forces are in control of Zugdidi, a town on the Georgian side of the Abkhaz ceasefire line, the Georgian authorities said.

SNIP

The residents left yesterday.

Drill here, drill now is more important than ever, for us & Europe whose gas & oil supply is controlled by Russia.

re: #43 blutonazi98

the US is Flying Georgian troops home. Could Russia interpret this as action by the US against them?

Putin's already said that it is interpreted as US action against Russia.

re: #35 Kosh's Shadow

They're too busy writing condemnations of Israel and the US in advance.
Either that, or they're still trying to blame this on Israel.

Yeah - of course Israel is guilty, after all, they did send some weapons, didn't they ...

///

Map.

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...]

Can we call it an invasion yet?

/sarc

re: #36 ducktrapper

So where are the useful idiots? They make a lot of noise if one poor Iraqi or Afghan gets caught in the crossfire but are strangely quiet as Russian forces bomb civilians in an outright manner.

If they can pin the dubya to it, it doesn't matter.

U.S.-Backed Ben Hur,

President Bush has been lousy with the press for seven and a half years. I doubt that is likely to change over the next six months.

When it comes to Georgia, good options are simply non-existent.

re: #55 bosforus

If they can pin the dubya to it, it doesn't matter.

Oops...

if they can't pin the dubya to it, it doesn't matter

PIMF

re: #55 bosforus

Plus, they see Sakashvilli as an American ally, i.e. an enemy.

seems kind of fitting right now:

Blix: I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you! Let' me see your whole palace, or else!
Kim: Or erse, what?
Blix: Or else we will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.

FNC says Gori is under Russian control. Forty miles from Tblisi.

re: #43 blutonazi98

the US is Flying Georgian troops home. Could Russia interpret this as action by the US against them?

That is indeed the message the US is sending.

re: #51 Honorary Yooper

Putin's already said that it is interpreted as US action against Russia.

If a Soviet (looks like the Soviets are back) fighter takes a shot at one...
New ball game.

I never say "G-d" but, I just thought it.

re: #48 MandyManners

Russian forces are in control of Zugdidi, a town on the Georgian side of the Abkhaz ceasefire line, the Georgian authorities said.

SNIP

The residents left yesterday.

From that link:
"Zugdidi is within the 12-km security zone – a buffer zone between the Georgian and Abkhaz sides – which is monitored by the Russian peacekeeping troops stationed there under the CIS aegis."

Easy, innit, if you're 'peace-keeping' in a 'buffer zone' ...

re: #60 MandyManners

FNC says Gori is under Russian control. Forty miles from Tblisi.

Belmont Club was saying yesterday Gori is the military control point for the rest of the country. IOW, it's over.

re: #59 wiffersnapper

seems kind of fitting right now:

Blix: I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you! Let' me see your whole palace, or else!
Kim: Or erse, what?
Blix: Or else we will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.

Putin is so ronery.

He arways rooks so ronery...

jcm,

If a Soviet (looks like the Soviets are back) fighter takes a shot at one...
New ball game.

I'm generally opposed to the U.S. getting involved in this conflict, but I fully agree with that.

they are in control of gori now...

re: #56 Dirk Diggler

When it comes to Georgia, good options are simply non-existent.

That's the spirit...

re: #53 MandyManners

Map.

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...]

Russia apparently has taken the town of Gori, which is only about 100 miles from the capital of Tbilisi. It now appears Russia intends to essentially over throw the duly elected government of Georgia, and install a puppet government.

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No calls of War Crimes? Nothing from the UN or the ICC or any other group claims to care about international relations?

No, it's the Russians and their South Ossetian propagandists who say that the Georgians are the ones engaging in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

re: #42 alegrias

2,000 killed -- according to Russia, it was done by Georgians murdering their own civilians...and, according to the BBC -- those are Russian "peacekeepers" (yeah, that's right -- going in with the tanks and aerially bombing apartment buildings -- but, hey, the BBC says it's all due to the aggression of Georgians...) (This all reminds me of the dark days of the KGB and Kremlin's "truth" -- along with media outlets in Europe and elsewhere backing up/endorsing the Russian lies.)

/ is anyone else having trouble submitting links? I cannot access any of the fields after clicking submit a link.

Running Safari 3.1.2

Reuters is at it again.

[Link: russia-insider.livejournal.com...]

re: #66 Iron Fist

Russia isn't the Big Dog she used to be. Her navy is drastically smaller, and her air force hasn't kept up with ours. Our troops are better trained and better motivated. A nuclear exchange would be crazy, and whatever else you may say about him, Putin isn't crazy. He's pushing to see how far we'll let him go.

What is this *we*, does anyone propose the US take on Russia about this, without the rest of NATO also clammoring for action?

re: #75 Dustoff-507

Reuters? Never heard of it. Perhaps you mean al-Reuters?

;)

Apparently, from what I have read, Georgia was stupid in trying to militarily do something (what it is is confusing) is SO. However, now it looks as if Russia will use the opportunity to take back control over a sovereign nation in an attempt to replicate the USSR, only this time under a non-idealogical thugocracy.

Part of the President's job is to have options ready when crises erupt.

DD: When it comes to Georgia, good options are simply non-existent.

PK:
That's the spirit...

So the U.S. should pursue "bad options" in Georgia?

...so this is how Russia shows us gratitude for Bill Clinton giving the Russian Mafia start up funding in the form of nuclear disarmament finacial assitance and loaning out our NRO assests during the razing of Grozny.

Partial repost from the DT:

Please remember that Mother Russia ISN'T as strong militarily as it used to be when it was part of the Soviet Union - and they have NOT kept up the necessary maintenance on their weapons systems, particularly air force and navy and are WAAAY short on qualified pilots - and it wouldn't just be Russia vs. U.S.; it would be Russia vs. U.S., Georgia, Urkrain, Poland and all of what used to be the "Eastern Bloc" of the Soviet Empire. But even just Russia vs the U.S. and Georgia, Russia loses.
I think, if the US had the balls to do the right thing here and truly support our ally, Putin would be screwed.
And if we don't do the right thing here, ultimately Israel is screwed. And maybe South Korea and Taiwan.

I wonder if Dubya told Putin to pull his troops out of Georgia and to keep his damned hands off Alabama, too?

re: #79 Cato

Czar Vladimir I.

And of course the UN - is blocked by Russia's veto in the security council.

Links here.

Georgian Forces Hold Defensive Positions in South of Conflict Zone ...
Civil Georgia, Georgia - 54 minutes ago
Georgian forces are continuing to reinforce and maintain defensive positions in the south of the South Ossetian conflict zone, despite heavy artillery fire, ...

Georgia Claims Shooting Down Russian Jet
Civil Georgia, Georgia - 57 minutes ago
Georgian said its air defense system shot down one Russian aircraft after it flew over Gori at the time when President Saakashvili was visiting Gori ...

Georgia Agrees to European-Brokered Ceasefire
Civil Georgia, Georgia - 1 hour ago
President Saakashvili said on August 11 he had signed a ceasefire deal proposed by senior European envoys. French and Finnish Foreign Ministers Bernard ...

Overnight Air Strikes Across Georgia
Civil Georgia, Georgia - 1 hour ago
The Russian air forces carried out series of strikes mainly on military installation across Georgia. Sound of two powerful explosions was heard in Tbilisi ...

Russian Forces in Zugdidi
Civil Georgia, Georgia - 1 hour ago
Russian forces are in control of Zugdidi, a town on the Georgian side of the Abkhaz ceasefire line, the Georgian authorities said. ...

What's sickening is the world is just standing by and watching. Come on Europe - do something!

re: #78 Fenboy

LOL, that too... but this is in Russia, so what name do we use now?

re: #81 Dirk Diggler

So the U.S. should pursue "bad options" in Georgia?

No. We should now pursue "good" options in Cuba and Venezuela!

The Russians have now entered Zenaki - deep into Georgia - scroll down to the bottom to see the map ...

re: #64 yma o hyd

From that link:
"Zugdidi is within the 12-km security zone – a buffer zone between the Georgian and Abkhaz sides – which is monitored by the Russian peacekeeping troops stationed there under the CIS aegis."

These "Russian peacekeeping troops" are not recognized as legitimate by the Georgian gov't or even by the UN. They are a covert colonial garrison force.

re: #68 Dirk Diggler

jcm,

I'm generally opposed to the U.S. getting involved in this conflict, but I fully agree with that.

I can understand that.
Here's how I look at it. Russian has been moving back into Soviet habits since Putin took power. Georgia is a friend and a burgeoning democracy.
The parallels to Rhineland '36 are many. IMHO it's a pay now or pay later.

A short sharp conflict, showing the Russians where the line is. Or another 50 years of cold war with a heightened possibility of it going hot.

re: #88 FrogMarch

What's sickening is the world is just standing by and watching. Come on Europe - do something!

And lose all that cheap fuel?

PIMF and Spellcheck, clumsy fingers...so this is how Russia shows us gratitude for Bill Clinton giving the Russian Mafia start up funding in the form of nuclear disarmament financial assistance and loaning out our NRO assists during the razing of Grozny.

re: #80 Peacekeeper

Part of the President's job is to have options ready when crises erupt.

It seems to me that this President has been consistently ill-served by the people who are supposed to provide him with those options.

re: #90 Nevergiveup
Yes AND the US DOES have good options in Georgia.
But we're running out of time to use them.

re: #93 jcm

I agree with the revertin' of Russia...(and don't forget about the oil, and that pipeline in Georgia).

re: #66 Iron Fist

Russia isn't the Big Dog she used to be. Her navy is drastically smaller, and her air force hasn't kept up with ours. Our troops are better trained and better motivated. A nuclear exchange would be crazy, and whatever else you may say about him, Putin isn't crazy. He's pushing to see how far we'll let him go.

I say we don't let him go very far.

* * *
Russia controls energy supplies to Europe & pumps its own oil.

They have "strategic" weapons which SILENCE their clients. Have you heard a peep from anyone besides us?

re: #93 jcm

And what does our Russia-expert secretary of state say? Wear is she?

re: #88 FrogMarch

Hell the Eu can't even change their own diapers!

re: #94 victor_yugo

Putin has Europe exactly where he wants them.

Time for the Messiah to come to the rescue, he can carpet bomb Moscow in his Cessna 182 with leaflets of love and compassion, change and hope will be the answer to this crisis!

Damn...did it again...assets not assists

re: #101 itellu3times

Where is she?

re: #97 realwest

Yes AND the US DOES have good options in Georgia.
But we're running out of time to use them.

Once Russian is entrenched it's over for all tense and purposes.

re: #92 Kenneth

These "Russian peacekeeping troops" are not recognized as legitimate by the Georgian gov't or even by the UN. They are a covert colonial garrison force.

Ah - but 'peace-keeping forces' sounds sooo much nicer to Western ears - especially those in the MSM ...

re: #81 Dirk Diggler

So the U.S. should pursue "bad options" in Georgia?

What I fault Bush for is not being prepared for this, for looking like a kid caught chewing gum in class. His administration led Georgia down a path that brought them into a war with Russia. They apparently believed we would back them.

Somebody should have told the Georgians months if not years ago that if the push comes to shove we won't be starting a war with Russi to save them.

We screwed those people almost as bad as if we were dropping the bombs ourselves.

re: #90 Nevergiveup

No. We should now pursue "good" options in Cuba and Venezuela!

Hell, I have been for overthrowing the commies in Cuba since I was old enough to form a reasonable opinion, if for no other reason than the supply lines would be shorter. I'm good to go right now, really. Let's mount up.

re: #104 gibsonz

Time for the Messiah to come to the rescue, he can carpet bomb Moscow in his Cessna 182 with leaflets of love and compassion, change and hope will be the answer to this crisis!

He can bring the dead back to life, and unexplode the bombs.

re: #104 gibsonz

Time for the Messiah to come to the rescue, he can carpet bomb Moscow in his Cessna 182 with leaflets of love and compassion, change and hope will be the answer to this crisis!

Irradiate the leaflets first. ("Weaponized leaflets"?)

re: #104 gibsonz

Time for the Messiah to come to the rescue, he can carpet bomb Moscow in his Cessna 182 with leaflets of love and compassion, change and hope will be the answer to this crisis!

Didn't Obama have a uncle or maybe a great aunt who helped liberate Stalingrad? I think I heard that...

re: #73 J.S.

2,000 killed -- according to Russia, it was done by Georgians murdering their own civilians...and, according to the BBC -- those are Russian "peacekeepers" (yeah, that's right -- going in with the tanks and aerially bombing apartment buildings -- but, hey, the BBC says it's all due to the aggression of Georgians...) (This all reminds me of the dark days of the KGB and Kremlin's "truth" -- along with media outlets in Europe and elsewhere backing up/endorsing the Russian lies.)

* * *
It's obscene non-reporting, they've got their "best" reporters stationed at GITMO in case a jihadi sneezes and we don't jump to provide a tissue.

Last week Georgia was a US ally that supplied troops in Iraq.

Next week Georgia will be a Soviet Russian ally.

Accepting that fact, the impotent State Dept will then move on to what it does best and only- criticise and delegitimize Israel.

re: #108 yma o hyd

Ah - but 'peace-keeping forces' sounds sooo much nicer to Western ears - especially those in the MSM ...

Russia keeps alive the Orwellian language of the USSR.

re: #2 taxfreekiller

I updinged that one in error. My information indicates Chinese backing in VN, not Russia. Where did you get that information?

Gotta' go. Can't stand this. Must finish shopping for school supplies. Am thinking about filling up car. Where are pronouns?

re: #114 Kenneth

It was Auschwitz IIRC, which still led to all us lizards mocking him for claiming having a relative in the Red Army.

re: #101 itellu3times

And what does our Russia-expert secretary of state say? Wear is she?

The U.S. is continuing to try to find a diplomatic solution to the fighting between Russia and Georgia. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made 50 calls over the weekend, her spokesman said, and this morning the U.S. is again calling for the Russians to stand down and accept a ceasefire.

I thinks it a bit past diplomacy.

OT - AWESOME QUOTE:

When I flipped at the 50, and saw how far ahead he was, knowing he was the world record holder, for a split second a thought crossed my mind: There is no way. But I said 'You know what? This is ridiculous. This is the Olympics and I'm here for the United States of America. I don't care how bad it hurts.' Honestly, in like five seconds, I was thinking all these things. I just got like a super charge and just took it from there. It was unreal. - Jason Lezak.

Didn't Georgia have nukes there in the old days? I am thinking they might have just kept a few after the collapse.

re: #100 alegrias Well the Ukraine has said it will not allow the Russian Naval Squadron back into it's bases in the Black Sea.
But I think - in reality - most of the World is waiting to see what the U.S. does or doesn't do before jumping in or staying silent.
We are, after all, supposed to be the leader of the Free World. Sure wish we'd act like it.

re: #112 Iron Fist

If necessary. If we don't stop Russia here, where will we stop her? Another war in Europe? Or do we tell the French it's been nice knowing them, but we're not helping out this Century?

'zactly.

re: #123 JohnnyReb

Doubtful, the post-Soviet president was very pro-Russian, which is why Sakashvilli was such a big deal.

re: #120 Fenboy

Yes, I know. I was referring to that and making fun of the Anointed One.

re: #123 JohnnyReb

Didn't Georgia have nukes there in the old days? I am thinking they might have just kept a few after the collapse.

Doubtful, Russia took all them when it pulled out.

Scumbags russians and their hatred towards kavkazkie people. Kavkazkie people get second class treatment in moscow.

All my support with Georgia people

Independent for three years (1918-1921) following the Russian revolution, Georgia was forcibly incorporated into the USSR until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. As part of its Soviet legacy, Georgia possesses a decommissioned nuclear reactor and three nuclear research institutes, as well as a number of military bases contaminated with radioactive waste. Nonproliferation issues concerning Georgia stem primarily from the area of export controls. Georgia does not possess or produce nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, but the country's industrial and medical sectors use components that could also be used in WMD systems.

[Link: www.nti.org...]

re: #122 Cattt

That is a great quote and that was an awesome race!

Ribbons!

We should all wear ribbons!

It's working in Darfur!

And shirts!

T-shirts that we'll wear to premieres!

re: #110 rawmuse

Hell, I have been for overthrowing the commies in Cuba since I was old enough to form a reasonable opinion, if for no other reason than the supply lines would be shorter. I'm good to go right now, really. Let's mount up.

i put my dog tags back on 2 days ago, they havent been out of reach since 1991...

re: #129 BakiShamil

Hello, where are you posting from?

re: #127 Kenneth

You dare make with the fun of His Holiness, scion of the Prophet Jeremiah, blessed by the Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar? He who will cause the oceans to fall?

I KEEEL YOOUU!

/hehe

What about our friends the Turks?

They have a long history of fighting Russians in the Caucuses...

We find ourselves in a bad position because we are
a) in hock up to our eyeballs (last count was just under half a mil per US household) to the
b) Chinese, who are largely financing that debt (and don't think that doesn't have strings attached) and
c) we are presently deployed on two fronts, and one of those is not exactly going according to the script.

kavkazkie = causcuses.

re: #133 Ben Hur

Where's Batman George Clooney! He'll know what to do!

re: #124 realwest

Well the Ukraine has said it will not allow the Russian Naval Squadron back into it's bases in the Black Sea.
But I think - in reality - most of the World is waiting to see what the U.S. does or doesn't do before jumping in or staying silent.
We are, after all, supposed to be the leader of the Free World. Sure wish we'd act like it.

A few FA-18E/F's with a load of AGM-154B JSOW anti-armor weapons would go a long way.

re: #137 experiencedtraveller

The Turkish gov't has issued a statement in support of the Georgians.

Thank God Georgia is not yet in NATO, it almost is.

Not good.

Sorry to be divisive Obama, but you better take a hike.

re: #140 DeafDog

Where's Batman George Clooney! He'll know what to do!

Please. The correct spelling is George C. Looney.
Thank you.

re: #109 Peacekeeper

I would also suggest that's it not just the U.S. not coming to Georgia's aid -- it's NATO. NATO has no desire, no interest in aiding (militarily) Georgia. (There's some talk about removing Russia from the G-8 -- that's about it...)

re: #112 Iron Fist

If necessary. If we don't stop Russia here, where will we stop her? Another war in Europe? Or do we tell the French it's been nice knowing them, but we're not helping out this Century?

We could not beat Russia alone, on their ground. Not to mention the temptation of one side or the other to go nuclear.

I mean, the rest of NATO would deny us landing and air rights, no ports, etc.

Have to be realistic.

This is as ugly an event as the world has seen since WWII. The parellels with the Rhineland may be just too accurate. Or with Sarajevo.

The silence on the morning news was eerie.

Frankly, I'm not sure even Bush is up to this kind of challenge.

Putin wins this one. We need to look ahead.

re: #143 Right Brain

On the contrary. If Georgia was in NATO, Russia never would have pulled this. The whole point of Russia's strategy is to keep NATO out of Georgia.

re: #142 Kenneth

Interesting, the Turks have one of the most powerful militaries in NATO (other than the US, natch). I'm sure they can't be happy with Russian imperialism on their doorstep.

And I'm sick fo the unreflected, fence-sitting, 'give-everybody-a-voice-regardless' reporting in the MSM>
Look at this:
"Fighting also continued in South Ossetia, with local officials accusing Georgia of bombing targets in the capital, Tskhinvali, by helicopter."
(From the Beeb report I linked further up this thread).

Didn't the reports from the Ossetians say that Tskhinvili 'doesn't exist any more', yesterday?
So how come there are still 'targets'?

Are there no reportes who ask themselves such questions? Does their memory not go back further than 6 hours? HAve they never heard of archives, or been taught how to use them?

Disgusting!

re: #145 J.S.

If the US doesn't provide leadership, nobody in NATO will.

In war civilians get hurt – like in Gaza'
Russian Chargé D’affaires in Tel Aviv sits down with Ynet to explain his country's military objectives in Georgia: 'We're only there to push the Georgian army out of the region. We have no plans to annex South Ossetia.' As for civilian casualties, says Dr. Yurkov, 'sometimes civilians get hurt in war, just like in Israeli operations in Gaza'
Dana Zimmerman
Published: 08.11.08, 18:54 / Israel News
"Russia will halt its military operation once the Georgians are pushed out of South Ossetia," the Russian Embassy's Chargé D’affaires in Tel Aviv, Dr. Anatoly Yurkov told Ynet on Monday afternoon.

"Russia has no interest in taking over South Ossetia – and certainly none in invading Georgia-proper," Yurkov said, adding that Russia
Advertisement

had not prepared for a military conflict of any sort with Georgia, and was forcibly dragged into one.

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Hum. I hope the Russians remember people get hurt in war next time Israel has to go to war. And I guess they don't count GORI as part of Georgia anymore?

re: #138 rawmuse

We find ourselves in a bad position because we are
a) in hock up to our eyeballs (last count was just under half a mil per US household) to the
b) Chinese, who are largely financing that debt (and don't think that doesn't have strings attached) and
c) we are presently deployed on two fronts, and one of those is not exactly going according to the script.

* * *
We were in much worse position when someone invaded Poland back in 1939.

We're wrapping things up in Iraq & we ought to pivot and assist Georia.

Tell Maliki to step it up, take out the Iraqi checkbook & quit playing footsie with Iran.

re: #149 yma o hyd

It's classic BBC reporting, lies coated with implication.

At least maybe the Europeans are getting a reminder of why the US Army is still over there.

re: #148 Fenboy

I read a report the Turks have sent a warship to "visit" the Georgian port. The purpose would be a subtle hint to Russia to bugger off.

re: #107 jcm I don't know if I'd agree with you on that either, my friend.
Russia's supply lines are really stretched very thin right now and there are, iirc, only THREE roadways through the mountains into Georgia. Dustoff-057 has reported on the DT that the US has in fact armed Georgian troops with our latest anti-tank missiles (shoulder fired) - seems to me that Georgia all by itself could close those roads.
And, again - at the risk of being repetitive - should the US WANT TO, the US could control the skies over Georgia for just about as long as it wanted/needed to.
And I'd shudder to think what the A-10 Warthogs could do to the Russian Armor and mechanized infantry, especially when said A-10's are protected by either the F-16 SuperHornets or the F-22 Raptors (which, iirc, could be in Iraq within less than 12 hours if we wanted to bring 'em in).

This WAR is really between Russia and the U.S. and it's not really over Georgia - it's over whether or not the U.S. will keep it's word to it's allies, like Georgia, ISRAEL, South Korean and Taiwan. It is a test of wills and I regrettably don't see the will on the U.S. part, just words.

The Rainbow Hope Change Machine will blow a gasket on this one.

Obama is surely conferring with Pooh and the rest of his cabinet on this sensitive issue.

What would Pooh do?

B-Ho: Can we surrender to the Russians?
Pooh: We aren't at war with Russia.
B-Ho: Surrender anyway, maybe we can save Atlanta for Freaknik.

Now, I can say "Look! It's a Caucasian war!"

re: #159 steveeas

omg racist

re: #155 Peacekeeper

At least maybe the Europeans are getting a reminder of why the US Army is still over there.

If only.

re: #157 realwest

Even supplying the Georgians with US weapons would escalate this ridiculously. Face it, they are far too small to stand on their own.

re: #140 DeafDog

Where's Batman George Clooney! He'll know what to do!

Batman got the crap beat out of him.

re: #162 itellu3times

I should have added, pointlessly.

So, which Euro leader will be the first to swallow their pride and call us?

re: #165 Ben Hur

So, which Euro leader will be the first to swallow their pride and call us?

They're all on vacation, or at the Olympics. They won't hear about it for weeks.

PRC is going to grab Russia far east! !

re: #153 Fenboy

It's classic BBC reporting, lies coated with implication.

I know - the Beeb has been totally taken over by NuLabs LLL.
It used to be reliable and impartial - not any more.

Good thing we don't need the MSM to get our information!

re: #161 J.D.

Yeah, its amazing to watch really, in Europe we've chased the barbarians over the horizon, and now we're convinced that barbarians don't exist, never existed, and were just made up by our own 'warmongering' right, even as we invite the barbarians back into our homes.

Its a funny old world, huh?

re: #165 Ben Hur

So, which Euro leader will be the first to swallow their pride and call us?

I'm guessin' -0-.

re: #150 Peacekeeper

the U.S. has urged the NATO forces to do X, Y, and Z (and it's been consistent -- NATO doesn't budge...or when NATO finally gets around to doing something, as per a U.S. request, it's months and months later...)

re: #137 experiencedtraveller

What about our friends the Turks?

They have a long history of fighting Russians in the Caucuses...

From the cyberwar component of this conflict, I'm not confident Turkey can be counted as a friend of the US. Please note:

re: #27 Kosh's Shadow

And Russia has been waging cyberwar against Georgia; the official Georgian government sites are redirected to servers in Russia and Turkey.
Cyberattacks knock out Georgia's Internet presence

Let's ask the Russians to please stop when they get to the Chunnel..

re: #118 Cap'n DOC
Hey Cap'n! Russia was the major supplier of the VC and the North Vietnamese Army - Vietnam has been at war with China for over 1000 years.
It was the Soviet ships in Haiphong Harbor that LBJ and then Nixon were worried about hitting with bombing runs over North Vietnam.

russia sure did have alot of stuff ready for this operation...

This is all Rush Limbaugh's fault, he took the day off.

re: #157 realwest

I don't think the US would send in an A-10. But the Georgian special forces could, if they have enough Javelins, destroy the Russian armor. The only catch is Russian air superiority. The Georgians are calling for a ceasefire right now, which is a wise strategy. They longer this drags out, the worse it will be on the Russians. They've sent an armored division, with a long vulnerable tail, across a mountain range. If they're not gone soon it's going to be a lousy winter for the Russians in Georgia.

re: #100 alegrias

* * *
Russia controls energy supplies to Europe & pumps its own oil.

They have "strategic" weapons which SILENCE their clients. Have you heard a peep from anyone besides us?

You are spot on. Just look at what Putin has been doing for the last few years. He was getting ready to play the new game. It's all about energy baby.

re: #165 Ben Hur

So, which Euro leader will be the first to swallow their pride and call us?

That one who spoke to 200,000 in Tiergarten Park in Berlin a few weeks ago? That famous celebrity guy -- name escapes me.

re: #169 Fenboy

Yeah, its amazing to watch really, in Europe we've chased the barbarians over the horizon, and now we're convinced that barbarians don't exist, never existed, and were just made up by our own 'warmongering' right, even as we invite the barbarians back into our homes.

Its a funny old world, huh?

Heh - you forgot that there are a lot of people in Europe who are trying their best to convince us that we actually are the barbarians ...

Is anyone else suffering weirdness when clicking "new comments"? I've frozen three times.

The tin foil is completely on for this one at Daily Kos:

Is Georgia Being Staged to Raise Gas Prices?

Stalin-Brezhnev-Putin

The invasion of Georgia is pure Soviet style aggression. Putin is the real man in power in Russia. This is his war. Just Afghanistan brought future disasters to the world, so will Putin's war crime- Georgia's sin was their democratic existence. Putin had the army ready and struck while the world's eyes were on Beijing.

If the US government spotted the military buildup in Russia they did not appear to warn the Georgians or anyone else of the danger. Ralph Peter's observation that the Russian Army could never react this fast and be ready with fully working tanks in position to invade Georgia is spot on- this was planned aggression from the get go. Putin provoked the Georgians into invading and then dropped the hammer.

Bush should declare a no fly zone for Russian aircraft over Georgia- by sending enough stinger missiles to make any Russian plane below 5,000 feet dead meat. He should send the Russian delegation to the US home from the US until the Russians pull out AND announce that the US is ordering all Swiss banks to freeze all Russian nationals' funds pending clearance from Interpol that the money is not the property of the Russian people (this is called a kick in the nuts).

Announce the US is prepared to reinstitute the Jackson-Vanik laws, the very technology and economic sanctions that crippled and helped bring down the USSR and that we will ensure that the entire western world puts in place the same measures.

Inform Putin that Russian shipments of oil and gas to Europe will be required Russian to pay NATO security fee for ensuring the safe transit of their shipments. In addition, payments to Russian companies will require that the directors and owners of those companies pass a criminal background check.

Demand hand over of the suspects of the Livornenko murder in London.

Demand that the UK appoints the head and majority of the board of BP-Gazprom.

Vladimir Putin has some very dangerous and wrongheaded ideas of his power and position. A nicely administered pimp-slap (this is a French term of diplomacy similar to cordone sanitaire). Russia lost one cold war and fast on their way to losing another.

OT
Is this photo of Obama supposed to make him look insightful or confused?
[Link: www.gallup.com...]

re: #182 Dianna

Is anyone else suffering weirdness when clicking "new comments"? I've frozen three times.

Not me. IE7, WinXP.

re: #142 Kenneth That's GREAT NEWS Kenneth - do you have a link for it?

the CIA missed 180,000 Soviet troops massing on the border with Afghanistan a few years back.

looks like they blew another call.

Chinese landing craft will be coming on shore in Hermosa Beach before we get warning at this rate.

re: #169 Fenboy

Yeah, its amazing to watch really, in Europe we've chased the barbarians over the horizon, and now we're convinced that barbarians don't exist, never existed, and were just made up by our own 'warmongering' right, even as we invite the barbarians back into our homes.

Its a funny old world, huh?

True. It is.

...If you want to put it in perspective, it's like we're the guy who ended up being the designated driver for the planet. Sure, we'd love to sit back and drink ourselves into a stupor with the rest of the globe but we're responsible for getting as many people home safe and sound as possible. Ever so often while we're sitting around wishing we could kill a few beers like the rest of the planet, a sloppy drunk, drooling Europe comes over to where we're sitting. Then they take another swig of Vodka straight out of the bottle and tell us not to worry about a thing because they'll drive everyone home in their "international law" van. But we know if we go ahead and drink up, we'll just get a call at 4 A.M. asking us to bring our tow truck and the "jaws of life" to clean up the bloody mess on dead man's curve. That's the burden of being an American. ...

Confessions Of An Isolationist Wannabe

re: #162 itellu3times

True, but they could be a major pain in Puttins backside. (if we gave them what the need to fight back)

re: #183 Sizzlack

The tin foil is completely on for this one at Daily Kos:

Is Georgia Being Staged to Raise Gas Prices?

The left is staggeringly cluesless about all matters.

There is a parallel situation a lot farther back than the 1930s.

Plataea -- fifth century BCE.

Watch Ukraine very, very closely. This out of a Ukrainian source, no confirmation, but notice who claimed the shoot-down happened.Start of a new propaganda offensive? Or the 24 hour rule? your guess is as good as mine.

KIEV, Aug. 10 – At least one Russian strategic Tu-22 bomber deployed on targets throughout Georgia, was probably shot down by a Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft missile, Russian media reported, citing a source in the Russian command.

Ukrainian Journal

This is the website of Yulia Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine, and very,very hot if I may say so.
Yulia Tymoshenko
Wiki bio of MS. Tymoshenko, with extract of magazine article she wrote in Foreign Affairs last year warning about Russia,

Tymoshenko wrote an article called "Containing Russia" in the May-June 2007 edition of the journal Foreign Affairs.[18][19] In the article she sharply criticized alleged authoritarian developments under Vladimir Putin and opposed the alleged new Russian expansionism. Consequently, the article irked Russia and more than a week before the article was published, Russia responded to the article, calling it an "anti-Russian manifesto" and "an attempt to once again draw dividing lines in Europe."[20] It was subsequently revealed that significant portions of the article had been paraphrased from an article written by former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Tymoshenko's staff denied allegations of plagiarism on the grounds that the Foreign Affairs format does not usually include attributions.[2

Wiki Yulia Tymoshenko

re: #174 realwest

Hey Cap'n! Russia was the major supplier of the VC and the North Vietnamese Army - Vietnam has been at war with China for over 1000 years.
It was the Soviet ships in Haiphong Harbor that LBJ and then Nixon were worried about hitting with bombing runs over North Vietnam.

* * *
John McCain's father, Admiral John "Jack" McCain, sent the planes to bomb Hanoi while future Senator John McCain sat in Hanoi POW camp.

McCain knows a thing or two about Soviet client states who tortured & imprisoned US troops!

Did anyone see McCain's tv conference on the Russian invasion two hours ago? Summarize please! Pres. Bush might still be in transit from China.

re: #146 itellu3times
We don't have to beat Russia on it's ground - we just need to clear the air over Georgia of Russian aircraft and that we CAN do.
And if Putin takes this to nuclear war, it'll be the end of Russia - and maybe most of the rest of the World.

re: #147 Kenneth

And with the Europussys tending the gate, they probably won't get in now.

re: #175 trailortrash

Yep, theu didn't just think of this yesterday

Now what? Shit.

re: #175 trailortrash

russia sure did have alot of stuff ready for this operation...

* * *
I think Russia waited until Solzhenitsyn was buried to invade Georgia.

Mornin' {realwest}.

The media has been relatively quiet over this, precisely because they are waiting to see how to spin this as America's fault.

re: #177 Iron Fist

No, and it's not just the oil. If nothing else shows it, the silence on the so-called "anti-war" Left exposes the fact that they are just anti-US. The Republicans (the only patriotic Party we have in the US) needs to be driving this point home. We need to make a lot of noise, bare minimum. Right now we aren't doing much.

* * *
I repeat, absent the President, McCain just gave a news conference on live tv, anyone see it?

McCain could get 200,000 Georgians to rally for him, he's been to Georgia many times and knows Saakashvilli personally.

re: #203 astronmr20

The media has been relatively quiet over this, precisely because they are waiting to see how to spin this as America's fault.

Correction: How to spin this as W's and the Republicans' fault.

1) Blow the tunnel.
2) Destroy any Russian submarines in the Black Sea
3) Establish a US manned FOB on Georgian soil with CAP over Tblisi
4) Roumanian and Bulgarian troops should move into the Ukraine.
5) The Ukrainian army should occupy Sevastapol
6) The Turkish army should move to Batumi
7) Give Putin a blank look if he asks about his submarines
8) Suggest that all Russian troops evacuate from Georgian soil within 96 hours.
9) Propose a UN peacekeeping force on the border, Iraqis, Columbians and Kiwis.

Obama & Kremlin reading from the same page.

The Kremlin tore in to John McCain via his chief foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, on Saturday. The Russians, angry at McCain's strong statement denouncing Russia's invasion of Georgia, pointed out that Scheunemann had lobbied for American ally Georgia.

At the same time the Kremlin was attacking John McCain for Scheunemann's ties to Georgia . . . you guessed it . . . Barack Obama's campaign attacked McCain for Scheunemann's connection to the Republic of Georgia.

Coincidence?

I disagree with the characterization of the Russia Blog post reading like "a press release out of the Kremlin." I find the arguments in the post to be reasonable and well-defended by evidence. A major reason I enjoy reading LGF posts is that Charles goes for the substance of his ideological opponents' arguments instead of resorting to ad hominem. It is unfortunate that that is not the case here.

re: #162 itellu3times
I said in my comment that it's a war of will between the U.S. and Russia - Georgia (our ally in Iraq) was merely the ground Russia chose to start it.
And yes, look what the Afghans did over 10 years to the much superior Soviet Armed Forces in Afghanistan.
We COULD win the airwar, no doubt about it in my mind or in the minds of folks I know who get paid to keep abreast of that sort of thing; close Russian access to Georgia and yes the Georgian's themselves could win against what's there now.

re: #174 realwest

I sure saw an awful lot of Chinese characters on captured supplies...

Dangerous, indeed. I wouldn't be surprised to hear word of an attempted coup d'etat any day.

I'm not sure a change in Presidential leadership would be so bad -- I know someone who's got harrowing tales Misha Saakashvili's personal craziness.

(And hey: Thanks to the AP for another useful story.)

re: #183 Sizzlack

The tin foil is completely on for this one at Daily Kos:

Is Georgia Being Staged to Raise Gas Prices?

Daily Kos is being staged to make the Democrats look like raving moonbat idiots.

re: #201 alegrias

* * *
I think Russia waited until Solzhenitsyn was buried to invade Georgia.

I was thinking that last night.

re: #195 JHW

If true, and Ukraine gets involved, this could be a much wider war, on many fronts for Russia.

re: #212 Kenneth

Oh brother.

re: #184 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Excellent proposals - do you think the now lame-duck government of GWB has the balls (still) to do this?

re: #203 astronmr20

The media has been relatively quiet over this, precisely because they are waiting to see how to spin this as America's fault.

What? This is a huge story.

re: #208 Saif al Kufr

I disagree with the characterization of the Russia Blog post reading like "a press release out of the Kremlin." I find the arguments in the post to be reasonable and well-defended by evidence. A major reason I enjoy reading LGF posts is that Charles goes for the substance of his ideological opponents' arguments instead of resorting to ad hominem. It is unfortunate that that is not the case here.

There's a very good reason why the Russia Blog reads like propaganda straight from the Kremlin:

[Link: larussophobe.wordpress.com...]

re: #211 Cognito

While Georgia suffers the usual problems of corruption and crony-ism, and Saakashvili has moments when he's a little...strange...does not mean a coup would be a good thing, or help with leadership.

re: #178 Kenneth Yes, you're right Kenneth, but as I've said eleventy-million times on this topic, IF the US WANTED TO, we could own the skies over Georgia - the Russian Air Force can't deal with our vastly superior aircraft, weaponry and - most importantly - pilots.

Somebody refresh me. What did Eisenhower do when Soviet tanks rolled into Hungary in 1956. My recollection is 'nada'.

The current Russian military action against Georgia is not the same but Georgia has western allies. NATO can not let this stand or else- "Here we go again".

Fuck it. Lets go to war with Russia.
re: #122 Cattt

OT - AWESOME QUOTE:

When I flipped at the 50, and saw how far ahead he was, knowing he was the world record holder, for a split second a thought crossed my mind: There is no way. But I said 'You know what? This is ridiculous. This is the Olympics and I'm here for the United States of America. I don't care how bad it hurts.' Honestly, in like five seconds, I was thinking all these things. I just got like a super charge and just took it from there. It was unreal. - Jason Lezak.

So amazing. So so so Amazing. The French had it in the bag and this guy pulled it from behind. Yeah Lezak.

/cheering for Phelps to get the 8!

So will the hand-wringing continue? Will Ukraine get involved?

Yes- McCain and Obama's responses subsequent responses are very telling. This is a situation that could certainly show McCain's depth of knowledge on the topic.

In a few minutes BBC "News" World will be discussing how a major (world's second largest) pipeline (that's oil to Europe) may be in danger by the war in Georgia.

re: #214 Honorary Yooper

Let's hope it's more than Puttin can chew off.

re: #198 Right Brain

The new NATO members form eastern Europe all want Georgia in NATO. And don't forget: Italy, France & Germany all have conservative gov'ts. The EU doesn't have a voice in NATO.

If Putinia takes over Europe, maybe they will be able to fight the jihad without the New York Times tying their hands.

re: #213 Dianna

Solzhenitsyn fully supported Putin's new Russia:

[Link: www.boston.com...]

From the KOS thread.

"... Bush's pal "I was able to get a sense of his soul" Putin, scratches his itchy trigger finger, on Bush's blessing, and attacks Georgia- making sure to disrupt the flow of oil in the process. It accomplishes three things:

1. It keeps gas prices high, which keeps up the political pressure to open up oil leases

2. It gives McCain and the GOP the one and only issue on which they can win (side benefit: it lets McCain talk tough on foreign policy)

3. It puts a foreign policy issue, a COMPLEX foreign policy issue, squarely into the Presidential debate, which McCain's people believe help him.

If they're willing to start a war with American lives, what's to say they're not willing to start one with Russian and Georgian lives as well?
Poll

Did Bushco have a hand in starting the Russia-Georgia conflict?
Yes
39% 13 votes
No
60% 20 votes

| 33 votes | Vote

re: #219 Dianna

While Georgia suffers the usual problems of corruption and crony-ism, and Saakashvili has moments when he's a little...strange...does not mean a coup would be a good thing, or help with leadership.

Oh, no -- I should clarify -- I'm not advocating a coup by any stretch. I mean the Georgians could probably elect a better President.

I should have separated those ideas better.

re: #218 Charles

There's a very good reason why the Russia Blog reads like propaganda straight from the Kremlin:

[Link: larussophobe.wordpress.com...]

Would it surprise you then, knowing all this, gentle reader, to find out that DI’s “Director of Foreign Policy” is a 24-year-old Russian “composer” with an undergraduate degree from a Russian “Tax Academy” whose parents were Soviet aparachiks?

As usual - great detective work, Charles.

re: #221 Quintus_Arius

Somebody refresh me. What did Eisenhower do when Soviet tanks rolled into Hungary in 1956. My recollection is 'nada'.

The current Russian military action against Georgia is not the same but Georgia has western allies. NATO can not let this stand or else- "Here we go again".

* * *
What did Pres. Johnson do when Soviets rolled into Czechoslovakia & silence the Prague Spring (of freedom)?

They're talking about deliberate sabatoge of the world's second largest pipeline in Georgia -- so then the oil to Europe would have to be re-routed -- go through mainland Russia (as opposed to through Georgia).

re: #202 J.D. Hey good morning to you {J.D.} How are you doing?!

re: #225 Dustoff-507

Let's hope it's more than Puttin can chew off.

It jolly well may be, if the other former Soviet states get involved. Some of them have a burning dislike for Putin and his cohorts. Of course, I would too, if they tried to assassinate me and install their own puppet.

There's something said about reaping what one sows.

re: #224 J.S.

In a few minutes BBC "News" World will be discussing how a major (world's second largest) pipeline (that's oil to Europe) may be in danger by the war in Georgia.

Oh shit.

Thank goodness I filled up this morning.

re: #194 buzzsawmonkey

The CIA seems to be useful primarily for providing "intelligence" that is the opposite of the actual facts on the ground.

I've just had a horrible thought.
What if the CIA knew - Bush was informed - and warned Georgia about the Russian build-up? And Georgia didn't believe it, and went ahead anyway?

Its not something the US Government would scream from the rooftops, and it would perhaps explain this a tiny bit.

re: #187 realwest

Turkey supports Georgia, Russians pissed.

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

quit shitting on my silver lining. lol

BBC also noted that Kazakshstan may have an interest in sabatoging the Georgia pipeline...

re: #223 astronmr20

So will the hand-wringing continue? Will Ukraine get involved?

Yes- McCain and Obama's responses subsequent responses are very telling. This is a situation that could certainly show McCain's depth of knowledge on the topic.

* * *
Depth of knowledge? Anti-communism is hardwired in McCain's DNA!

re: #241 J.S.

That Borat guy is such a jerk.

bbl

re: #23 Ben Hur

What is the population of Russia?

I think Georgia's is 4 million.

So you could understand how this is a holocaust against Russia.

Russian has been quick to trot out "ethnic cleansing" and "holocaust" and a host of other claims against Georgia. They've done a pretty good job convincing a lot of people on the left and the Buchananites that Georgia is a totalitarian state.

re: #224 J.S.

In a few minutes BBC "News" World will be discussing how a major (world's second largest) pipeline (that's oil to Europe) may be in danger by the war in Georgia.

* * *
Drill here, drill now, baby!

Papa Putin's putting the squeeze on petroleum.

The War in Georgia Is a War for the West By MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI

...As Europe expanded its security institutions to the Black Sea, my government appealed to the Western community of nations -- particularly European governments and institutions -- to play a leading role in resolving our separatist conflicts. The key to any resolution was to replace the outdated peacekeeping and negotiating structures created almost two decades ago, and dominated by Russia, with a genuine international effort.

But Europe kept its distance and, predictably, Russia escalated its provocations. Our friends in Europe counseled restraint, arguing that diplomacy would take its course. We followed their advice and took it one step further, by constantly proposing new ideas to resolve the conflicts. Just this past spring, we offered the separatist leaders sweeping autonomy, international guarantees and broad representation in our government. ...

re: #229 pat

From the KOS thread.

Did Bushco have a hand in starting the Russia-Georgia conflict?
Yes
39% 13 votes
No
60% 20 votes

| 33 votes | Vote

Sickening that almost 2/5ths of Kos Kooks think Bush had a hand in starting this.

re: #215 J.D.

You know I'm being sarcastic, right?

re: #214 Honorary Yooper

Yes and there is quite a bit of info on the naval base story also, complicated like everything else there, with joint operating agreements, dual citizenships and various other opportunities and pretexts for trouble.
I found this statement interesting, no doubt there are those in the Kremlin who find it interesting also.

Lithuania and Poland, as well as Ukraine and Georgia, are the key members of a regional bloc that is being created to counterbalance Russia’s influence, including its energy monopoly, in the region.

Yushchenko Reaches out to world on Georgia
Mr. Yushchenko is President of Ukraine.

re: #229 pat

From the KOS thread.

Did Bushco have a hand in starting the Russia-Georgia conflict?
Yes
39% 13 votes
No
60% 20 votes

| 33 votes | Vote

Nite, pat.

So...I guess you voted, too?

Russia out of Georgia now... Keep your hands off Florida and Alabama as well...

People have no idea what this all about and some I talked to yesterday actually thought the Russians were bombing Georgia, yes, OUR Georgia...

Putin needs to be put in his place. We are all talk and no action on this one... And Russia begins her rebirth...

re: #221 Quintus_Arius

As I've said - granted, while suffering from extreme gloom - we can't get through a decade without betraying an ally.

This time, it looks like we're not even waiting for the Democrats to take office.

re: #235 realwest

Better all the time {realwest}. You?

What exactly was Mikheil Saakashvili thinking? Both of those provinces were gone and have been gone from Georgia since 2002. And to make matters worse ... the Russians drove out the last remaining ethnic Georgians. The only people left there are Russian 'peacekeepers' and ethnic Ossetians - ostensibly loyal to Russia.

So what does he do? Launch artillery attacks on South Ossetia knowing full well that Russia had dozens of tanks massed at the border.

What does Russia do? Invade and smash the Georgians and now that they're in, they won't stop.

(Surprise surprise ... the Russians are usually so subtle.)

It's clear what was happening ... his popularity was down so he seized on the one topic that would unite the country behind him: "territorial integrity".

This is a farce like Canadian Bacon but with real missiles

What was he expecting? That we would fly in and bail him out? The guy is nuts.

re: #236 Honorary Yooper

As i keep saying... Bush could send arms to these countires to help them out. Puttin can only lose so many aircraft until it hurts .

Realwest is right. Puttin loses the air, he loses it all.

re: #188 Sifty

the CIA missed 180,000 Soviet troops massing on the border with Afghanistan a few years back.

.

What do we keep them around for... other than to undermine any Republican President?

re: #230 Cognito

OK.

re: #210 Cap'n DOC When were you there and where were you when you saw them? The Chinese were STILL fighting the North Vietnamese on their border when I was there (class of '70) and the trucks I saw on the Ho Chi Minh "Trail" were all Soviet built.
Not denying that China didn't send SOME supplies to the NVA, but all the SAM's used were Russian made as were the radar systems that guided them and the few tanks and fighter aircraft used by the NVA were all Soviet made.

re: #249 Kenneth

You know I'm being sarcastic, right?

Of course.
It's what passes for a "normal" day at kos.
Sad, really.

re: #248 Honorary Yooper

Sickening that almost 2/5ths of Kos Kooks think Bush had a hand in starting this.

what are the Kos kids and Andrew Sullivan going to do when Bush is no longer president? How will their paranoid schizophrenia survive?

re: #257 Wendya

What do we keep them around for... other than to undermine any Republican President?

Don't get me started...

re: #211 Cognito
Hey Cog - didja by any chance catch the Times of London's take on this: [Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

re: #255 papawhisky

What exactly was Mikheil Saakashvili thinking?

I imagine he was thinking he was going to lose his entire country piece by piece to the Russians.

re: #157 realwest

I really don't care how. Just that we do it. It can be short and sharp. Or we can let it drag out. Right now it's our choice.

I like the JSOW anti-armor because it's effective. and demoralizing, 4 F-16s in the Iraq war loaded with those things rendered the 3rd Republican Guard combat ineffective.