Putin just rolled his eyes and knocked back half a dozen shots.

Spoke tough, no specifics.

re: #191 Boondock St. Bender
That would be yes.

"Russia must reverse its course and accept ceasefire", basically.

Think he talked as tough as he can at this juncture.

the evening promises to get interesting, i hope we start sending supplies and aid quickly

I was waiting for the "or else" part.
He made a strongly worded statement, now let's see if he will stand behind it more than the UN ever does.

A remark after he thought the mike was off would have been nice; I miss Reagan and "the bombing starts in 10 minutes".

That was it?

Bush looked pissed, but way too short a scolding and weak. He should have given McCain the mike.

I looked into Vladimir Putin's soul and I saw four letters:

C, C, C, and P.

re: #4 Occasional Reader

Or what?

He said, Thank you, and walked out. No questions taken, nothing.

What is Russia supposed to take from this? What are we supposed to take from this?

re: #9 turn

Bush looked pissed, but way too short a scolding and weak. He should have given McCain the mike.

Bad idea when BDS is rampant and the Dems are trying to paint McCain as "Bush III" despite his "maverick" status.

No need to just hand it to them.

Just think what Obama would do if he were to become President. Putin knows exactly what he's gonna do.....with a smirk on his face.

re: #4 Occasional Reader

"Russia must reverse its course and accept ceasefire", basically.

And if they don't the stick is?........

re: #3 CyanSnowHawk

lol...ask and you shall recieve.
that aside,this is how it should start.first you register that you are displeased.then you talk.waving your dick at the russians at this point will accomplish nothing.

Well, heck. He apparently wrapped it up before I could get the television up and running.

Did he characterize the Russian action so far?

re: #12 OldLineTexan

You are right.

But I sure wish I had the faintest idea what his incredibly brief statement means.

re: #12 OldLineTexan

Left the sarc tag off .. I agree

re: #14 jcm

And if they don't the stick is?........

Then we prepare a harshly worded letter.

Should have had Jesse Jackson speaking under his breath.

re: #16 Cognito

He said it raised grave doubts about Russian intentions in the region (Caucasus) and the world.

re: #10 Robert O.

I looked into Vladimir Putin's soul and I saw four letters:

C, C, C, and P.

I actually only see 3:
K, G, B

re: #20 debutaunt

Should have had Jesse Jackson speaking under his breath.

LOL

re: #11 Dianna

Or what?

He said, Thank you, and walked out. No questions taken, nothing.

What is Russia supposed to take from this? What are we supposed to take from this?

I would take that we are not getting involved and that Georgia better hope their surrender is accepted.

In other news in our interesting world, Kashmir is on the verge of boiling over today as Islamist separatist leader Abdul Aziz was shot dead:

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

re: #21 Dianna

He said it raised grave doubts about Russian intentions in the region (Caucasus) and the world.

Good, I'm glad he at least alluded to that regressive mindset.

"Russia must stop, or we shall taunt them a second time"

Not sure what we can do, really. Any sort of military assistance to Georgia will mean War with a capital W. The UN, of course, is a waste of time. Europe wouldn't be up for a total freeze of Russian assets and trade, otherwise their lights would go out...

Seems that Bush doesn't wanted to give away something that Russia might interpret as something very bad coming to them deservedly.

Or he's just gambling on his supposed plan to strike Iran in few months.

re: #9 turn

Bush looked pissed, but way too short a scolding and weak. He should have given McCain the mike.

BTW on Drudge...McCain upstages Bush in condemnation.

re: #24 kansas

I hope not, but I fear you are right.

re: #17 Dianna

You are right.

But I sure wish I had the faintest idea what his incredibly brief statement means.

I'm going to go with #15. Official notice that you don't like what you are seeing, but no threats.

May not work with Putin, but I give Vlad more credit for brainz than Hugo or Dinnerjacket.

A ceasefire would be the absolute best option at the moment.

Forget peace, CNN is having a hard time just getting their spelling right: "Pres. Bush condems Russia". And "Russians pound Georgia" just sounds dirty.

re: #17 Dianna

You are right.

But I sure wish I had the faintest idea what his incredibly brief statement means.

I think he's waiting for the Europeans currently in Moscow, speaking to Putin. Strengthening their back, so to speak.
Keeping his options open, giving Putin a way out to save face.
Not showing his hand at all.

re: #14 jcm

And if they don't the stick is?........

He'll shout "stop" again.

Kidding aside... could be that he either doesn't know what the stick option is, or is choosing not to say for now. Realistically, I think our options are very limited.

re: #25 Robert O.

Whoo, boy!

It never rains but it pours.

re: #24 kansas

if that were the case,he wouldn't have said anything about this.
This statement told the russians that the u.s. is not happy with them.

re: #27 Pawn of the Oppressor

"Russia must stop, or we shall taunt them a second time"

Not sure what we can do, really. Any sort of military assistance to Georgia will mean War with a capital W. The UN, of course, is a waste of time. Europe wouldn't be up for a total freeze of Russian assets and trade, otherwise their lights would go out...

And that in a nutshell is the hand of cards Bush will have to play with.

re: #29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW on Drudge...McCain upstages Bush in condemnation.

Easy to do when you're not the President.

"If you don't stopped we will wave our privates in your general direction!"

Is the gist of the statement I take it.

OK Kremlinologists, guard the fort! May the force be with Georgia.

Also, here is disturbing development from Russia;

Russia Warns Baltics, Poland To Pay For Georgia Stance-Report

RIGA, Latvia (AFP)--Russia's ambassador to Latvia Monday warned the Baltic states and Poland that they would pay for their criticism of the Kremlin over the conflict in Georgia, the Baltic news agency BNS reported.

"One must not hurry on such serious issues, as serious mistakes can be made that have to be paid for a long time afterwards," Alexander Veshnyakov was quoted as saying by BNS.

Contacted by AFP, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Riga confirmed the ambassador's comments but declined to elaborate.

More at: Nasdaq

re: #33 yma o hyd

I hope you are right.

re: #31 OldLineTexan

I'd rather have something like, "Withdraw, or we will kick your ass all the way back to St. Petersburg."

If I was at college I'd try to convince a girl the world was about to end.

Well, that was nothing if not brief. A quote: “It is time for Russia to be true to its word, and to act to end this crisis.”

They are - they're taking the whole country.

re: #34 Occasional Reader

He'll shout "stop" again.

Kidding aside... could be that he either doesn't know what the stick option is, or is choosing not to say for now. Realistically, I think our options are very limited.

Limited yes, non-existent no. Historically this a '36 Rhineland moment. Stand now or pay heavily later IMHO.

re: #27 Pawn of the Oppressor

"Russia must stop, or we shall taunt them a second time"

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of eldeberries!

re: #29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW on Drudge...McCain upstages Bush in condemnation.

Exactly my point, Bush seemed weak in comparison. Good link, thanks.

re: #44 lifeofthemind

If I was at college I'd try to convince a girl the world was about to end.

* * *
John Edwards did just that.

re: #27 Pawn of the Oppressor

"Russia must stop, or we shall taunt them a second time"

Not sure what we can do, really. Any sort of military assistance to Georgia will mean War with a capital W. The UN, of course, is a waste of time. Europe wouldn't be up for a total freeze of Russian assets and trade, otherwise their lights would go out...

I don't think I understand your thinking here........we provided Afghanistan with assistance in the '80s without getting into a war with the Soviets.

Just words.

re: #28 the_flying_pig

Seems that Bush doesn't wanted to give away something that Russia might interpret as something very bad coming to them deservedly.

Or he's just gambling on his supposed plan to strike Iran in few months.

I have a gut feeling that we will strike Iran before our election.

I guess if you are another country and want to move on someone else, the time to do it for the next 9 months while we elect our new president and settle in.

re: #41 Robert O.

Also, here is disturbing development from Russia;

Well, I think we can safely put Fukuyama's "End of History" meme to bed.

re: #43 Dianna

I'd rather have something like, "Withdraw, or we will kick your ass all the way back to St. Petersburg."

I am not so ready for WW3, or to see if Putin's launch codes are valid and the missiles are fueled.

re: #41 Robert O.

Well, the Baltics and Poland are members of NATO. If attacked, they are supposed to be backed up by the rest of the alliance. Keywords, supposed to.

Man how I miss President Reagan.

re: #33 yma o hyd

He kept saying, "Russia must". That piques my interest, but I have no real idea what Bush is telling them. There was no "or else" specified.

re: #41 Robert O.

Also, here is disturbing development from Russia;

Russia Warns Baltics, Poland To Pay For Georgia Stance-Report

RIGA, Latvia (AFP)--Russia's ambassador to Latvia Monday warned the Baltic states and Poland that they would pay for their criticism of the Kremlin over the conflict in Georgia, the Baltic news agency BNS reported.

"One must not hurry on such serious issues, as serious mistakes can be made that have to be paid for a long time afterwards," Alexander Veshnyakov was quoted as saying by BNS.

Contacted by AFP, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Riga confirmed the ambassador's comments but declined to elaborate.

More at: Nasdaq

Very interesting indeed!
They're back in their Soviet Union mode - but I think this time, with that threat, they've overplayed their hands.
These are NATO states, and members of the EU. Above all, they are fiercely anti-Russia.
Dumb ploy by Russia.

re: #45 Ward Cleaver

They are - they're taking the whole country.

See #41
Today Georgia, tomorrow the Baltics!

re: #43 Dianna

I'd rather have something like, "Withdraw, or we will kick your ass all the way back to St. Petersburg."

We aren't risking nuclear war over Georgia. That's just the way it is.

I'm disappointed he did not use his father's words when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait 18 years ago in August 1990:

This Will Not Stand.

re: #41 Robert O.

Now he's threatening NATO. Interesting. Alarming as well.

re: #39 jcm

No, not really. Though I am not entirely sure what Bush wants to do.

Best case, this is Dubya setting the stage for some statesmanship-like statements from McCain.
I think he's uselfish enough to do it.

re: #43 Dianna

sounds tough,but,unfortunately that is how WW1 got started.you can't give an ultimatim that leaves humiliation or war as the only choices at this point.

re: #36 Boondock St. Bender

This statement told the russians that the u.s. is not happy with them.

I'm sure they're gravely concerned about that.

re: #63 CyanSnowHawk

Now he's threatening NATO. Interesting. Alarming as well.

He's trying to see how far he can push us.

re: #61 Occasional Reader

We aren't risking nuclear war over Georgia. That's just the way it is.

And I think that's just about all we've got at the moment -- maybe not straight to nuclear, but certainly straight to long-distance war.

Our boots are just worn out.

re: #65 tradewind

argh, PIMF....
un selfish.................

It would have been nice to hear an unequivocal statement to the effect of, We stand with Georgia.

re: #61 Occasional Reader

We aren't risking nuclear war over Georgia. That's just the way it is.

Does Russia believe they are risking nuclear war?

re: #44 lifeofthemind
And not just "ANY GIRL" I take it!
Wanna see my FALLOUT SHELTER?

Thats a real nice nuclear plant you Russians have built for your Iranian pals in Bushehr. It would be a shame if something happened to it before they paid you.

re: #66 Boondock St. Bender

sounds tough,but,unfortunately that is how WW1 got started.you can't give an ultimatim that leaves humiliation or war as the only choices at this point.

True, but we have a choice of starting WWI with an ultimatum, or watching WWII unfold as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

re: #65 tradewind

Best case, this is Dubya setting the stage for some statesmanship-like statements from McCain.
I think he's uselfish enough to do it.

What the heck is a uselfish? :)

re: #33 yma o hyd

I hope you are right there, our options do seem limited at this time. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we are already moving some military muscle toward the area right now.

BBFN

re: #71 Wendya

It would have been nice to hear an unequivocal statement to the effect of, We stand with Georgia.

Yes.

WooHoo! My first spin-off link!

re: #50 eschew_obfuscation

I don't think the Russians (I keep nearly typing Soviets) have forgotten.

The option I think US has at this point is to push for immediate membership NATO for Ukraine and make crystal clear our defense commitments to the Baltic states. Its not going to help Georgia, but it will rattle at least some of the Russians and should take another 15 points off their stock market and dry up all new western capital flows into the country. The only hope at this point is to send a signal to average Russians that the country hasn't gained anything in the long term by invading Georgia. Things will get worse before they get better.

This is what happens when we have weak, ineffectual presidents. I hope the country is smart enough not to do this again. Although I can't tell if Obama is weak and ineffectual or is a highly effective liar. Either way he scares me.

re: #64 Dianna

No, not really. Though I am not entirely sure what Bush wants to do.

Neither is he.

re: #61 Occasional Reader

We aren't risking nuclear war over Georgia. That's just the way it is.

* * *
You laughed when I recommended everyone order this book!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

The Compleat Survival Guide!

re: #80 Dianna

I don't think the Russians (I keep nearly typing Soviets) have forgotten.

Same friendly service with a new name.

live...

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

re: #56 Honorary Yooper

Well, the Baltics and Poland are members of NATO. If attacked, they are supposed to be backed up by the rest of the alliance. Keywords, supposed to.

Wasn't Bosnia not a member of NATO when that body went in to take action?

re: #69 Cognito

And I think that's just about all we've got at the moment -- maybe not straight to nuclear, but certainly straight to long-distance war.

Our boots are just worn out.

I'm not sure what you mean. We'd have no military options for dealing with this, if we chose that path? I disagree. But going to war against Russia is, itself, the issue.

re: #72 debutaunt

Probably. Why else have they refrained from retaking all of their old Soviet territory, or pushing into Western Europe for that matter. I seriously doubt it has to do with the kindness of their hearts. Fear of US ICBMs is more likely.

re: #64 Dianna

No, not really. Though I am not entirely sure what Bush wants to do.

Though I am Bush is not entirely sure what Bush wants to do.

^{/no offense, Dianna!}

re: #56 Honorary Yooper

I agree. It'd be interesting to see how NATO lives up to Article V of its charter.

Unlike the leftist American, the Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Poles actually know what it's like to live under Russian domination. The reason why they rushed into our arms after the collapse of the Iron Curtain, without us even making an overture to them, is that they never want to go back to their slave master again. Will we live up to the trust others have vested in us, or will we sell them out to save our own skin, like we did 60 years ago?

re: #63 CyanSnowHawk

That could well be unapproved bluster from a tipsy diplomat.if putin backed it up,then it has some weight.

re: #76 experiencedtraveller

It's a typo. See following mea culpa.
(But you knew that....)

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Well, I think we can safely put Fukuyama's "End of History" meme to bed.

And thank your deity of choice for that! I always thought it was annoying and inaccurate.

The best response is to pound Iran.

re: #87 Golem Akbar

Wasn't Bosnia not a member of NATO when that body went in to take action?

I don't think so.

So the Russians screwed with us in Viet Nam and then we screwed with them in Afganistan; and spent them into Bankruptcy.
Hopefully all George is going to have to do is remind Putin that the US figures out ways to get even.
On the other hand we have been playing games in Russia's backyard and Putin is showing us that he is not happy.
We should never have gotten involved in the Balkans.

re: #84 alegrias

* * *
You laughed when I recommended everyone order this book!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

The Compleat Survival Guide!

If we have a nuclear war with the Russians (which we won't), I don't think "home crafts" are going to be of much help.

re: #55 OldLineTexan

Sigh.

You may be right.

Frankly, I think we have a choice of fight now, or fight later, when Russia's stronger.

re: #65 tradewind

Best case, this is Dubya setting the stage for some statesmanship-like statements from McCain.
I think he's uselfish enough to do it.

Lots of behind-the-scenes stuff going on. The Ukraine is supposed to be getting ready to take some kind of action. Other nations starting to take actions, too.

re: #93 tradewind

;) I've been fishing recently...

re: #67 Wendya
They better be.they remember what u.s. equipt.did to their military in afganistan.we have many options at this point.

re: #79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WooHoo! My first spin-off link!

And an excellent one as well!

From that link this quote:
"What is interesting about the US response is that you have the McCain campaign in one corner immediately understanding the significance of Russia’s aggression and in the opposite corner you have the Bush administration standing with the Obama campaign taking a much more diluted stance,” said John Bolton, the former Bush administration ambassador to the United Nations."
He got it in one!

re: #74 mich-again

Thats a real nice nuclear plant you Russians have built for your Iranian pals in Bushehr. It would be a shame if something happened to it before they paid you.

Plots within plots. Russia risks a big financial hit, or must apply the screws to the Iranians, and they take a big financial hit. I don't see that plant surviving until Jan. 21st.

re: #61 Occasional Reader

We aren't risking nuclear war over Georgia. That's just the way it is.

Putin is testing the water. He's not going to go nuc over Georgia, but test the rest of the World and US in particular if we'll back up some place like Georgia.

France and Britain failed to respond to Hitler in '36.
The west failed the Czech's in '53 the Hungarians in '56.

I am sick and tired of bowing to totalitarian aggression because every time we do it cost more later.

re: #87 Golem Akbar

Wasn't Bosnia not a member of NATO when that body went in to take action?

Your statement is correct only because it's a double-negative. No, Bosnia was not (and is not) a member of NATO.

re: #60 Kosh's Shadow

Haven't I been saying that all weekend?

re: #10 Robert O.

I looked into Vladimir Putin's soul and I saw four letters:

C, C, C, and P.

Naw, Putin doesn't care about a party. He's investing in his own power and glory. The same can be said for all despots.

re: #98 Occasional Reader

If we have a nuclear war with the Russians (which we won't), I don't think "home crafts" are going to be of much help.

* * *

It's not about Martha Stewart craft, but survival skills from A to Z, energy-capture to beer brewing! Good stuff even for urbane folk like you DC metros.

They gonna end it alright, just as soon as the whole place is under control. Right now, real quick. and right away.

re: #108 Salem

Naw, Putin doesn't care about a party. He's investing in his own power and glory. The same can be said for all despots.

Czar Vladimir I.

re: #97 TimK

We should never have gotten involved in the Balkans.

I agree with that in that NATO is essentially dead. Say we all had agreed to grant Georgia full-fledged status in NATO. Would the Germans, French, Greeks, Italians, Brits, and Turks be firing up right now for a war with Russia to defend Georgia. Yeah right. They would scarcely have the gumption to fight for their own Country.

re: #80 Dianna

I don't think the Russians (I keep nearly typing Soviets) have forgotten.

Putin is a Soviet, I think their back, we just need catch up.... again.

re: #99 Dianna

Sigh.

You may be right.

Frankly, I think we have a choice of fight now, or fight later, when Russia's stronger.

You may be right. It's a very tough corner to be stuck in.

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Same friendly service with a new name.

Holy rebranding Batman!

re: #115 CyanSnowHawk

Holy rebranding Batman!

Old poison-new bottles.

re: #113 jcm

Putin is a Soviet, I think their back, we just need catch up.... again.

Czar Putin the Great.

The U.S. should publicly declare a red line -- that if Russia enters Tsibili they will intervene.

I thought that this would be a quick show of force by Russia, enough to scare Europe away from thoughts of NATO for Georgia, but now I think they may be looking at Georgia with "those eyes."

What would happen if Putin decided to take over Georgia completely? Who would stop him? Europe is dependant on their oil, and lets face it, not the bravest of countries. The US efforts would be limited to money and training and being outraged in political speeches, all of which is worth very little once the attack starts.

If there is one thing that history teaches us, diplomacy doesn't stop a determined attack. What weapons--diplomatic or otherwise--do we have against Russia?

It is like Hungary all over again. They will call for help, and we'll give "powerful speeches." Georgia may be toast.

Russia has been suffering from a giant inferiority complex since Reagan, and any chance to play Glorious Union of Soviet Socialists is too tempting for them to pass up.
Especially a barrel shoot like this one.

re: #111 Honorary Yooper

Czar Vladimir I.

He probably puts on Peter the Great's togs from time to time and parades in front of the mirror when he wants to cheer himself up.

re: #118 Edgar

The U.S. should publicly declare a red line -- that if Russia enters Tsibili they will intervene.

With?

re: #92 Boondock St. Bender

That could well be unapproved bluster from a tipsy diplomat.if putin backed it up,then it has some weight.

I hope it's unapproved.

Hey, when did the numbers on the quote responses become links like the reply responses?

The mujahadeen riding on camels defeated the Russians in Afghanistan. Of course the Stinger missiles were a big help.

There's a lot we don't know about what happended last week.

I suspect that the brevity and tone of the statement may also mean that the Prez knows that there is fault on the Georgian side, too. Perhaps he can't be as unequivical as his father because the circumstances leading up to the incident are not as unequivical. The Georgians have put him (and the USA) in a bad spot. We need to stand by an alley who just did something really foolish.

re: #79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WooHoo! My first spin-off link!

Excellent post, FBV! ! !

re: #112 mich-again

I agree with that in that NATO is essentially dead. Say we all had agreed to grant Georgia full-fledged status in NATO. Would the Germans, French, Greeks, Italians, Brits, and Turks be firing up right now for a war with Russia to defend Georgia. Yeah right. They would scarcely have the gumption to fight for their own Country.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Turkey would fight that war, even of Germany, France, Greece, Britian, Italy would not.

Yes, I said Turkey would. First goes Georgia, then Armenia, then the Russians are on the Turk's backdoor, about ready to invade via the back porch and the kitchen on their way to the living room (Istanbul). There's a lot of very bad blood between the Russians and the Turks due to the fact the Russians have coveted Istanbul for centuries.

Georgia is the apéritif, Urkaine is the main course.

re: #81 dubliner75

I think Russia's belligerence needs to be confronted. However, the situation is a lot more complex than that. This is a double edge sword that works in Russia's favour no matter which way it cuts. Any crisis in the Caucasus - the entry point of oil and gas into Europe - will send global oil prices skyrocketing. This is not something we can control, unfortunately.

Incidently, this is precisely why I believe it is absolutely paramount we move away from fossil fuel dependence. It doesn't matter whether one believes in global warming or not. So long as the west continues to be dependent on Muslims or Russians for our economic lifeline, we will NEVER have economic or national security. There is an inverse relationship between the global price of energy and liberal democratic values. Whenever the price of oil rises, democracy retreats. This is precisely what is happening in every corner of the globe right now as tyrants in Saudis, Russians, Venezuelans, Iranians are reaping the rewards of sitting atop the planet's energy resources.

Georgia has always been on Russia's radar, as the Caucasus is the only access point between the energy reserves of Central Asia, and the energy-deprived Europe, without passing through Russian or Iranian soil. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline goes through Georgia, and the Russians know a monopoly over Europe's energy needs enables it to control Europe.

There may be little that Georgia can do about its destiny. But there is certainly something the United States of America can do about its own destiny, and it starts with the immediate declaration of a national emergency to move away from fossil fuel dependence. I cannot underestimate how important this is, but I know it is going to be just as vital as winning the Space Race.

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

With?

Will we ever draw a line?

I dunno.
In a funny old way I thought this was a good speech, for a President.
He can't go all out, guns blazing, like for example McCain can.
He's got to be able to back up any threats with actions, or he'll be a joke.
So its better to leave all doors open, keep Putin guessing (and they'll be working their backsides off at the Kremlin right now, analysing every word, every pause, everything!) and prepare for material back-up behind cosed doors.
Let the Europeans talk - see how it goes, and let Putin either back down or run into a mess of his own making.
I'm suddenly not quite so anxious ...

re: #106 Occasional Reader

Your statement is correct only because it's a double-negative. No, Bosnia was not (and is not) a member of NATO.

It was not not a double double negative (I sometimes repeat repeat myself...). er er

re: #130 debutaunt

Will we ever draw a line?

Not if the Democrats can help it. They will however draw hearts, lollipops and unicorns.

Why was Bush so brief and nonspecific? Because we're three months from the election:

McCain condemnation upstages Bush

That's from the Financial Times of London. Who's going to bet the MSM in the US runs the same headline?

.. crickets ..

If we just dismantle the Caucuses, this would all be solved.

/Israeli goose.

re: #113 jcm

I was wearing my old KGB t shirt this weekend because, well, "They're baaa-ack!"

re: #112 mich-again

Putin would not have invaded Georgia if it had been a member of NATO. He would have used other methods to get what he wanted.

re: #129 Robert O.

drill here drill now.

re: #44 lifeofthemind

If I was at college I'd try to convince a girl the world was about to end.

I like your thinking

re: #129 Robert O.

Exactly what I was trying to point out in my post HERE, referring to my posted spinoff link HERE.

/Hello?

re: #87 Golem Akbar

List here...along with dates of membership.

re: #75 Honorary Yooper

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Either way, there are no good choices at this time. This is very bad, and most people in the world are clueless about it.

re: #36 Boondock St. Bender

if that were the case,he wouldn't have said anything about this.
This statement told the russians that the u.s. is not happy with them.

I guess I don't understand international affairs. Did the Russians think the US was happy with this?

re: #129 Robert O. drill, nuclear, and hunt for real VIABLE future alternatives

re: #130 debutaunt

Will we ever draw a line?

Unfortunately, I will have to say no.

If Bush sends in any troops, the Dem's will come clamoring back and quickly pass measures so as to cut off funding them and then turn it around to attack the GOP.

re: #121 Salem

He'd look like a little boy playing dress-up.

Somebody at Google seriously has a finger (maybe much more) up their butt.

Google maps search term:
Republic of Georgia

First return?
Banana Republic‎ - more info »
xxx City Cir, Peachtree City, GA -

The game is over in Georgia.

The game is now "consequences."

re: #99 Dianna

Sigh.

You may be right.

Frankly, I think we have a choice of fight now, or fight later, when Russia's stronger.

Russia is estimated to have around 6681 active strategic nuclear warheads in its arsenal. Are you really up for "fight now"?

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

well,we could quietly propose to the georgians"you guys want some simple to use goodies that reduce russian aircraft and tanks to smoking rubble?"
It's hard to look tough as your spearhead elements are being eliminated.

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) and many of our republicans supporting dems in that for their own political wants

From the FT, God bless 'em:

Barack Obama himself issued a statement on Saturday but remains on vacation in Hawaii.

re: #112 mich-again

... Would the Germans, French, Greeks, Italians, Brits, and Turks be firing up right now for a war with Russia to defend Georgia. Yeah right. They would scarcely have the gumption to fight for their own Country. ....

You are perfectly on the spot with your comment, I'm German myself and know my folks and do agree a 100% with the French "The Dissident Frogman" when he names both countries as the "Axis of Weasel".

Please help me. I have no love for Russia. However, the Georgians initiated the conflict, by going into areas that had remained within Russia & have Russian leaning majorities in them. Now Russia is going to kick their asses hard and make them, and anybody, regret forever that they ever made that move. The meaning of winning is really beating the hell out of them so they don't do it again, right? And yeah, Putin is a ruthless KGB, but just because Bush like the jolly democratic Georgian Govt. doesn't mean they were wise to initiate hostilities.

Please tell me where I am wrong here.

I just finished reading Moscow Rules, by Daniel Silva. What is scary that, if true, Russia is involved in a lot more than just land-grabbing. Silva posits that the Ruskies are behind a lot of arms sales, too, and some of the arms are going to the Islamofascists.

I question the timing of the invasion...

re: #128 jcm

No, Georgia's the appertif, Azerbaijan and Armenia are the soup and salad courses; followed by the various 'stans as the fish course, Ukraine as the game course, finishing with the Baltics as the cheese and nuts.

Caucasian people are the source of all the trouble in the world.

sarc off.

Seriously, there is Jack that can be done without escalating the conflict. The Georgians are our allies in the war on terror, but we can't fly interdiction and fire on Russian ground troops without creating an incident. Georgia is not part of NATO - so no treaty-triggered defense from the rest of the EU. This is a "dare" by Russia to see how we're going to respond.

re: #155 Golem Akbar
well we know their nuclear fuel has been going to iran

As usual, Cheney is the voice of reason:

However, many detected some echo of Mr McCain’s harder-line stance from Dick Cheney, the vice-president. He told Georgia’s President Mikheil Saakashvili on Sunday that “Russian aggression must not go unanswered”

re: #155 Golem Akbar

I just finished reading Moscow Rules, by Daniel Silva. What is scary that, if true, Russia is involved in a lot more than just land-grabbing. Silva posits that the Ruskies are behind a lot of arms sales, too, and some of the arms are going to the Islamofascists.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the only thing the Russians really had to make money with was selling weapons and they really weren't picky as to who they sold them too.

re: #156 6pat6

You mean you question the timing in a Rovian sense? Or something else.

Gotta go now, Lizards - seeya tomorrow!

er for domestic purposes of course

re: #141 J.S.

List here...along with dates of membership.

Very interesting. No Bosnia. Yet, NATO went in.
So, they could go into Georgia.
As if...

re: #124 mich-again

Horses, mich! Camels aren't exactly at their best in Afghanistan, but the horses are very nice indeed.

re: #143 kansas

Its all in how the situation gets reacted to.(roll the dice and see what happens.
as bismarck said,"war is a sloppy means of diplomacy"

re: #154 zeir

Please help me. I have no love for Russia. However, the Georgians initiated the conflict, by going into areas that had remained within Russia & have Russian leaning majorities in them. Now Russia is going to kick their asses hard and make them, and anybody, regret forever that they ever made that move. The meaning of winning is really beating the hell out of them so they don't do it again, right? And yeah, Putin is a ruthless KGB, but just because Bush like the jolly democratic Georgian Govt. doesn't mean they were wise to initiate hostilities.

Please tell me where I am wrong here.

by going into areas that had remained within Russia

# 82 Panda. I have to disagree with you that Bush is weak. There has been no President in my lifetime who has had to face what he has.After 9/11 the world changed. Tell me how many more attacks have we had here since that fateful day?Sure a lot of us would have liked to see him appear stronger, but with the BDS that has taken over this Country, it didn't matter what he said, it was either ignored or twisted.By the way you should be afraid that Obama may become our next President.To even remotely compare George Bush to be as weak as Obama is a grave mistake. God bless our President.

wow my post cut short, i ment thats where you are wrong.

Bush is a sissy.

what's confusing me is the lack of tone in Bush's message , like soulless, so unusual, did anybody else see that? or did i miss cohesiveness of the message?

re: #154 zeir

This was my view for a while. There are reports now that Russia had been acting aggressively all along to foment South Ossetian separatism and to fight Georgian attempts at federation. That is, that Russia was using the South Ossetians as proxies and goads. Yes, Georgia fired rockets. Both sides were aggressive. Saakashvili lost his cool, and Russia then pounded him.

Here in Georgia as in Bosnia in the '90s, the US can only act as part of a European coalition. The notion the US and it's A10s are going to take on Russian tanks is absurd. Putin is playing hardball.

Bush made the American position clear, now the UN must act swiftly (not likely and this may be the straw that breaks the back of that really worthless organization.) I smell appeasement.

This is simply continuation of the Cold War, long and erroneously thought dead by far too many. Oh, and Election Day in America! What better way for Putin and his hand-picked puppet Medvedev to go and stir up shit to see what the reaction will be in the West? So far, things don't look so good.

re: #169 nigella
that's true, he has stood against alot and with little support, and everyone biting at his heels, even within rep party

re: #161 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the only thing the Russians really had to make money with was selling weapons and they really weren't picky as to who they sold them too.

That's scary. Silva writes that Russia is deliberately trying to destabilize the US and the west, for its own aggrandizement.

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, both, now that you mention it...originally a Rovian reference, but...!

Will I get banned if I use the word impotent and bush in the same sentence? I never like those two words too close together.

re: #166 Dianna

I remember seeing pictures of mujahadeen on camels but in all likelihood you are right that they rode horses. Those were probably just convenient MSM file photos back in the day when no one fact checked anything they printed.

re: #154 zeir

The areas were ceded to georgia.it was their territory.irregardless of racial majorities.(hitler used the same arguement to take czech.wasn't right then ain't right now.)

Another thing to remember is we can't possibly know what Bush is doing under the radar.

Bosnia shows that a nation need not be a member for NATO (Needs Americans To Operate) to do something. The precedent was set.

re: #137 CyanSnowHawk

Actually, I don't think that holds. I think he'd have behaved exactly as he's behaving now, because no one's done anything but wring their hands, and no one appears to be prepared to do anything more.

In a way, it's fortunate Georgia hadn't succeeded in joining NATO, because then it would be obvious just how pitiful and useless NATO has become.

re: #599 LeePro [from older thread downstairs]

re: #140 LeePro [upthread, here]

      ^{: : : : : : : sigh : : : : : : :}

FT article:

A spokesperson for Mr Cheney rejected suggestions that the vice-president was trying to push the administration towards a more hawkish position on the crisis, insisting he was speaking in “unison” with Mr Bush and other US officials.

That spokesperson is probably right. I'm sure Bush is pissed and that they're all feeling hawkish. But the Pres is now in transition, and Bush is trying to make it easy for McCain to sound Presidential. Which he is. Behind the scenes (I hope and pray), people are working on implementation plans. What we're seeing is only the public aspect.

Either that, or I don't know what I'm paying my government for.

re: #182 nigella
true, and he doesnt look happy, pissed is closer to what i saw, but how much backing for any move will he have

How long till moonbat central runs with the story that this is all a show to scare Americans to voting for a war hero instead of a peacenik.

Yeah, thats the ticket. Bush and Putin cut the deal before going to the opening ceremony at the Olympics.

re: #58 Dianna

He kept saying, "Russia must". That piques my interest, but I have no real idea what Bush is telling them. There was no "or else" specified.

Dianna -

"Russia Must" means at minimum, Vlad you are really frosting me with this one and paybacks are a bitch. There may or may not be hope at this point for the current Georgian Government. Same may be true in OUR Latin Near Abroad. One can hope.

-S-

500 miles from Incirlik to Tiblisi.
100 miles from the Turkish border to Tiblisi.

Would the Turks play ball?

re: #149 Occasional Reader

Russia will not go nuclear over Georgia. Russia can afford to play a waiting game; they have before. So...reluctantly, yes.

re: #190 JCM

Excellent question. They don't like the Armenians, obviously. How much would they help the Azerbaijanis?

#181 & # 170

I see, S. Ossetia had broken away from Georgia, you say, goaded by Russian protection...
I feel like its the first Lebanon War & everybody is holding Israel to that 25 km rule which was so bogus...

re: #190 JCM

Doubtful, given the current regime there. They were not helpful in the '02 Iraq invasion, what makes them want to help us in this case? Turkey wants carte blanche to go after Kurds, anytime, anywhere, and they know we don't want or like that, so they are no real motivated to help the US.

#187 Willowone, exactly right. He does seem angry, and with good reason. If he were to do what we would all like to see, confront Russia head on, he would surely get no backing from our defeatacrat friends in Congress. The fate of another war would also be in his hands. Tough position to be in for a "lame" duck sissy.

re: #193 zeir

And then goading the Georgians to try and stop their secession, with the Russians egging them on.

re: #195 nigella
agree

This whole thing has me wanting to re read Red Storm Rising.

Sigh, if only Obama were president, he'd call Putin up, have a civilized chat and this whole misunderstanding would be over. All our energy needs AND foreign policy would run on sunshine and moonbeams. :-).

re: #155 Golem Akbar

This is news?

Sorry, but all that is true.

The only amusing thing is that their own arms end up in the hands of the Chechens.

re: #184 Dianna

I don't think he would push that button so easily, and would have looked for a more subtle way to subvert Georgia. There is a reason he threw a fit when NATO was talking about Georgian membership. It may be an old tiger, but it still has some teeth.

re: #198 Thanos

This whole thing has me wanting to re read Red Storm Rising.

Read Sum of All Fears instead.

re: #174 Quintus_Arius

At the moment the supply lines for the Russian Army are highly vulnerable, if choked off in the few mountain passes they must transit that would leave the army itself is pretty exposed.

We seem to always stop short of 'true ass kicking'. Ever since the
loony left gained the press and universities as allies.

I refer to Korea, Viet-Nam, Kuwait, Iraq...
Until we convince the left it is in THEIR interest to get on board, they will
continue to poison the waters of VICTORY!

The shame

re: #199 Gretchen

Obama would probably call up Putin and ask him for the name of his tailor.

re: #194 6pat6

Their play will hinge on how they see the issue.are they threatened by a russian georgia?If they don't see that they have a horse in the race,they will probably sit it out.

Obama would send the 300 to stave off the invasion.

re: #203 bulwrk

And if those tunnels, by some accident perhaps, were to be dynamited shut?

re: #171 Limitbreak22

Bush is a sissy.

I don't think so. There's a lot of stuff going on. We're not going to see much of it unless the Russians don't back down. Then we'll see.

August will continue to be a very interesting month.

re: #183 6pat6

Bosnia shows that a nation need not be a member for NATO (Needs Americans To Operate) to do something. The precedent was set.

That's a biggie. Let's hope NATO is ready. If so, my bet is that Russia does back down. If NATO loses its backbone, then....

The fact that bush commented on this,and the way he did it means that there are definately machinations at work.Most of which we will not hear of for some time.

re: #190 JCM

I'm hoping that's a great, big, emphatic, YES!

re: #212 Boondock St. Bender

The fact that bush commented on this,and the way he did it means that there are definately machinations at work.Most of which we will not hear of for some time.

When a Republican President speaks softly look for the big stick.

I think it bears repeating...

1. Russia would not be in this aggressive posture today if they were not replete with petro dollars.

2. They would not be so flush with the cash if it weren't for the ridiculous surge in oil prices in recent years.

3. The aforementioned increase in oil prices is a direct result of Democrat negligence by obstruction of this country's energy independence for over thirty years. In "saving the planet", Dems have rendered us hostage to a resurgence of totalitarian bad-asses.

Vote accordingly.

re: #206 Boondock St. Bender

True, but they and the Russian Navy are in the Black Sea. The Russians could blockade the Bosphorus, for example. Turkey is definitely watching things. They will grant us access only if Turkey feels or IS threatened, IMO.

from article;Mr Cheney expressed US “solidarity” with Georgia “in the face of this threat to Georgia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Cheney, the vice-president. He told Georgia’s President Mikheil Saakashvili on Sunday that “Russian aggression must not go unanswered” and warned its continuation would have “serious consequences” for US-Russian . a speaker for Bush administration?[Link: www.ft.com...]

re: #215 rorschach

Correct, sir!

re: #200 Dianna

This is news?

Sorry, but all that is true.

The only amusing thing is that their own arms end up in the hands of the Chechens.

Yeah you're right. It's only news because we've been so focused on Iraq and AQ. Russia may actually be behind a lot more stuff than most of us (you excluded) knew. Man, it is a dangerous neighborhood out there. We need a strong leader. And I don't think Mr. O is that strong leader.

re: #215 rorschach

I think it bears repeating...

1. Russia would not be in this aggressive posture today if they were not replete with petro dollars.

2. They would not be so flush with the cash if it weren't for the ridiculous surge in oil prices in recent years.

3. The aforementioned increase in oil prices is a direct result of Democrat negligence by obstruction of this country's energy independence for over thirty years. In "saving the planet", Dems have rendered us hostage to a resurgence of totalitarian bad-asses.

Vote accordingly.

Bingo

re: #125 DeafDog

I suspect that the brevity and tone of the statement may also mean that the Prez knows that there is fault on the Georgian side, too.

How so? Russia attacked them on their own soil.

re: #82 panda

This is what happens when we have weak, ineffectual presidents. I hope the country is smart enough not to do this again. Although I can't tell if Obama is weak and ineffectual or is a highly effective liar. Either way he scares me.

Obama could be both weak and ineffectual, and a highly effective liar as well. It's not just one or the other.

re: #216 6pat6

True, but they and the Russian Navy are in the Black Sea. The Russians could blockade the Bosphorus, for example. Turkey is definitely watching things. They will grant us access only if Turkey feels or IS threatened, IMO.

The bear sharpening it's teeth on the guy in the next tent would, I hope, make one feel threatened.

re: #142 Thor-Zone

Either way, there are no good choices at this time. This is very bad, and most people in the world are clueless about it.

Yeah, I was explaining the situation to a lady at work and she responded:

Hmmmmm. I'm not into it that much but it's interesting

As if their lack of interest somehow insulates them from the consequences.

re: #215 rorschach

Hear, hear!

Belarus arresting protesters in Minsk.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #50 eschew_obfuscation
True, but we did it covertly using russian weapons bought on the black market. It took years.

I'd say Georigia has maybe 3 more days to exist if the russkies don't back off.

re: #224 Tigger2005

Yeah, I was explaining the situation to a lady at work and she responded:

Hmmmmm. I'm not into it that much but it's interesting

As if their lack of interest somehow insulates them from the consequences.

Remember this? Very appropriate.

re: #154 zeir
My understanding was that South Ossetia was a part of Georgia as North Ossetia was part of Russia. Russia already had some 'peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia.

There is a lot to be concerned with GWB's statement. That is a statement you give when your folks are looking at ALL options and assessing the risks with each. The stakes are very, very high indeed.

re: #188 Mich-again

How long till moonbat central runs with the story that this is all a show to scare Americans to voting for a war hero instead of a peacenik.

Yeah, thats the ticket. Bush and Putin cut the deal before going to the opening ceremony at the Olympics.

Already happened. Prescient you are, nevertheless.

re: #223 JCM

I would hope, as well. Remember, Turkey has Iran and the rest of the islamic world to worry about, too. They are the only "secular" islamic nation, and the rest of them do not like that. They'd give anything to destabilize Turkey and drive it towards becoming a hardline islamic republic...NATO and EU membership, be dammed!

re: #215 rorschach

I'm not big into dinging, but a zillion ups for you!

re: #215 rorschach
sure makes Pelosi's "i want to save the planet" even more pathetic doesnt it. also where does she get off thinking Americas drilling will hurt the planet? more so than mexixco> russia> sauds Iranians> they're better stewards of the planet? and they will automatically quit drilling cuz we persoanlly are powered by windmills and lefts hot air?

re: #224 Tigger2005

Don't disturb my little world with the reality of a dangerous planet,please.
This is the attitude that gets demacrats elected> lol

BTW, anybody notice Charles added a "Jump to Bottom" button?

And just what is Bush supposed to do!

He's ending his last term in the White House. He cannot initiate any actions by which the future president would be bound.

Measures should have been taken long ago to admit Georgia into NATO last time they begged for it. The West let them down. Now talk is cheap, or, failing that, awkward.

re: #231 6pat6

I would hope, as well. Remember, Turkey has Iran and the rest of the islamic world to worry about, too. They are the only "secular" islamic nation, and the rest of them do not like that. They'd give anything to destabilize Turkey and drive it towards becoming a hardline islamic republic...NATO and EU membership, be dammed!

Turkey's got a mess of problems, that's for sure.

I sure they're not happy with Russia getting all uppity in Georgia. But that doesn't mean they'll see benefit to allowing operations out of Turkey.

Georgian soldiers returning to Tbilisi from Iraq.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

When the Soviet Union fell, I remember reading a security analysis saying that Russia would rebuild its empire, but they estimated it would take about 50 years. Well, it's been nearly 20 years and we now have a Russia that is flush with oil money, and USA tied up on two major fronts in the War on Terror. It didn't take 50 years; it took less than 20 for Russia to start to reassert its self.

Can we stop history from repeating itself? I'm not so sure. It would be interesting to see if the former Soviet Satellites rise up in their own alliance to hold off the Russian Bear. If they do, I hope we support them with every resource we can spare. These people deserve the right to determine their own fates and not be the slaves of Russia once again.

On a side note, the next easy conquest for Russia will be the International Space Station (ISS). With the Shuttle program ending in about a year and a half and at least 5 more years before Orion starts flying American crews to the ISS, Russia is either going to charge us through the nose to ride on their ships to the point we can’t afford it or just bar entrance to the ISS and hang a sign on the door saying "No Americans Allowed". Either way, we will probably end up losing our multi-billion dollar space station that our astronauts have risked their lives to build.

re: #215 rorschach

Y-y-y-y-y-y-yup!

I see this as a brutal Russian method of propping up falling oil prices.

Georgia should have cut their Ossetian losses and not risked war with a huge military when no one would come to their aid.

The U.S. has other Terror to fight, at the moment, and NATO/ the EU are indifferent to the suffering of small states if they are not related to fighting the Jihad.

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, I hadn't. Probably because I'm always clicking "new comments" today.

re: #234 Boondock St. Bender

Don't disturb my little world with the reality of a dangerous planet,please.
This is the attitude that gets demacrats elected> lol

At least this woman does agree with me on practically everything political, though...she likes me and is impressed by my knowledge and intellect, I think (too bad she's way too old for me!) But apparently this is just too over her head or scary for her.

Thanks for the "jump to bottom" Charles!

re: #237 JCM

They do share a border.

re: #154 zeir

by going into areas that had remained within Russia & have Russian leaning majorities in them

The second phrase is true.
The first (in bold) is NOT.
Ossetia is a part of Georgia, even though it has had a high degree of autonomy since the early 90's.

We'd better not make the same mistake with Georgia as the Democrat's still want us to make in Iraq(and Afghanistan(add list)) - wave bye-bye and shout from the helicopter, 'YOYO!'

re: #236 medaura18586

he has all the freedom of action that he requires.crisis'do not just happen when they are convienient.if he needs to act he will act.If he needs to set a policy he will.If the new guy in office disagrees with it he can then set in motion the reversing of it.

re: #238 The Other Les

Georgian soldiers returning to Tbilisi from Iraq.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #216 6pat6

Turkey would never allow the Russians to block the Bosporus straits, the straits are well within the reach of land based aircraft and anti- ship missiles it would be crazy for the Russians to try.

re: #239 Random63

To say nothing of the joys of the Russians having the really high ground.

re: #171 Limitbreak22

Bush is a sissy.

You are very mistaken...He has weathered more shit, and Bullshit han
you or I could take. He is no Sissy.
Let's hope his caution is soon exhausted.

Mine is.
I swore an oath when D.D.Eisenhower was Commander In Chief,
but I'd raise my right for G. W as well.

For Obama, I'd just raise my aim & piss in his face

What I think the best strategic move for Russia now is to offer a cease-fire, on condition that Saakashvili goes. If the get that they will pull back to inside of South Ossetia while a puppet government is set up in Georgia. Then all the other dominoes er, baltic states will get lil' letters from the Kremlin; Make nice with us and give up dreams of joining the west or your next. Like the chinese say, kill 10, frighten 10,000 into submission.

re: #252 Dizzy26

Mine is.
I swore an oath when D.D.Eisenhower was Commander In Chief,
but I'd raise my right for G. W as well.

For Obama, I'd just raise my aim & piss in his face

A) Thank you for your service.

B) LOL!

re: #253 sojerofgod

If he can blow those mountain passes, Saak should call that bluff.

re: #246 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Ahem - small correction: North Ossetia stayed with Russia; South Ossetia went to Georgia.

South Ossetia was fairly autonomous within Georgia, but the Soviets ah, Russians have been fomenting trouble there for quite some time. And the South Ossetians have been firing rockets at Georgia.

The Russian "peace keepers" were the advance element of the invasion.

How many Russian troops are inside Georgia right now?

re: #252 Dizzy26

re: #171 Limitbreak22

Bush is a sissy.

You are very mistaken...He has weathered more shit, and Bullshit han
you or I could take. He is no Sissy.
Let's hope his caution is soon exhausted.

Mine is.
I swore an oath when D.D.Eisenhower was Commander In Chief,
but I'd raise my right for G. W as well.

For Obama, I'd just raise my aim & piss in his face

That's OK. Obama does not want your oath. He wants your mandatory "voluntary" service and your surrender & subjugation.

I wonder how much this son of white slave owners plans to collect in reparations while pretending that he is "black."

Obama is the only candidate who opposed this war from the beginning.

/now, everybody, get on your knees and make the Sign of Obama

With oil dropping in price and that having a negative impact on the Russian stock market, its not a surprise this is going down now. This is what most nations do when the economy turns bad. They start a war to shift the focus of their masses towards a common enemy. I'm sure this was in the planning stages for a long time, but the downturn in the Russian markets was the trigger in my opinion. I'll also bet the Chinese are pissed off since it steals the attention away from the Olympics. Maybe that was part of the timing too? Russia was feeling neglected.

re: #255 godfrey

If he can blow those mountain passes

Operation Monica is a "go".

re: #254 loppyd
.

B) LOL!

YW :-)

Breaking: US offers $250,000 in humanitarian aid to Georgia

Ouch.

and what would America do if we were in Russia's position? If one of our states left and invited in a foreign power...what would America do? Think about it.

Perhaps we stuck our nose where it did'nt belong and now we can't do a GD thing about it. Some in here are saying "send in the military", but they have never spent time in the military. Georgia is in Russia's backyard and they can bring in far more firepower and armor than we can on a short notice.

Let Europe solve this BS, we have enough on our plate already.

re: #154 zeir

Please help me. I have no love for Russia. However, the Georgians initiated the conflict, by going into areas that had remained within Russia & have Russian leaning majorities in them. Now Russia is going to kick their asses hard and make them, and anybody, regret forever that they ever made that move. The meaning of winning is really beating the hell out of them so they don't do it again, right? And yeah, Putin is a ruthless KGB, but just because Bush like the jolly democratic Georgian Govt. doesn't mean they were wise to initiate hostilities.

Please tell me where I am wrong here.

South Ossetia is a part of Georgia. Back in the 90's, they, along with Abkhazia decided to break away from Georgia but didn't manage to accomplish it. The new Georgian President was elected on a platform of uniting Georgia but allowing S Ossetia and Abkhazia more autonomy. The Russian response was to give money, arms and Russian passports to the S Ossetians under the guise of peacekeeping. Georgia wasn't strong enough to evict them so they've remained and have been stirring up shit in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. When Georgia was presenting its case for admission to NATO, Russia recognized S Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations and established official ties with their administrations. The move was made to intimidate Georgia and poison their admission to NATO.