Soviet victory!

US over Cuba - Beach volleyball.

Women's, beach volleyball.

Oops. Sorry for the early OT. Forgot I went up to the new thread.

They have a very selective chronology.

...hmmm...smack dab in the middle of thieves with big guns, good thing we have big guns too...

Thank you for all of this, Charles- because the next time some Russian apologists show up in a thread, we'll all be better prepared.

In America you have discovery.
In Russia, government discovers you.

Hey Lizards!

I got this in my in-box today. Thought it was interesting.

Statement by Deputy Secretary Robert M. Kimmitt
on Support for Georgia’s Economy

BTW, it was a pleasant day in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

How is everyone?

With 10K Russians involved, the addition of 2K armed Georgians from Iraq is not an insignificant number.

I wonder how well they are armed.

re: #9 Chip Designer

With 10K Russians involved, the addition of 2K armed Georgians from Iraq is not an insignificant number.

I wonder how well they are armed.

If they would only fight like Israelis. But the problem is, the Russians, while not the greatest warriors on the planet, are not Arabs, either.

re: #9 Chip Designer

Someone on the other thread said it...Hope we gave them lots of parting gifts.

Jeez, these guys are really tunneling, aren't they?

TO THE EARTHS CORE!

Am I the only one who feels a little queasy about searching for facts about this conflict at two sources from the "Discovery Institute" and "La Russophobe"?

There are better sources out there, when it comes time to form a stance.

I'm not surprised to learn Mr. Mamchur is a closet soviet hack and thus supports ID. What could be more communist than ID with it's centralized planning and opposition to free market forces?

As Ken Miller brilliantly points out in his book Only A Theory, evolution is very much like capitalism- it's survival of the fittest, if you will.

re: #13 Cognito

Am I the only one who feels a little queasy about searching for facts about this conflict at two sources from the "Discovery Institute" and "La Russophobe"?

Yes.

Posted on the last thread, but this points out how the Russians think. Its from a statement from Russia's UN ambassador about terms of a cease-fire.

Russia''s UN ambassador said that the Russian forces in South Ossetia were engaged in "peacekeeping operation."

He justified Russia''s air strikes outside South Ossetia by the need to undermine "certain Georgian military activity, which is supported from outside of South Ossetia."

Scores of civilians were reportedly killed after the Russian warplanes dropped bombs in the town of Gori, close to the South Ossetian conflict zone. Port of Poti, military base in Senaki, airfields in Marneuli and Kopitnari were also targeted.

"We are not targeting any civilians. If there are any civilian casualties - that you can not rule out - this is of course deeply regrettable," the Russian diplomat said. "There have been some reports of bombings outside the territory of South Ossetia and if there were some, they were in the context of support of peacemaking operation [in South Ossetia]."

Bombing civilians is always a part of peacekeeping no?

re: #10 Tigger2005

If they would only fight like Israelis. But the problem is, the Russians, while not the greatest warriors on the planet, are not Arabs, either.

The problem with the Russians is they never trusted the soldier. The individual soldier didn't have the sufficient information, training, or responsibility to operate like ours do. The Russian soldier couldn't make on the fly tactical adjustments.

I have no patience whatsoever anymore for these people who pop in on the Evolution/ID and Discovery Institute threads to declare that they don't know anything about this debate and are "bored" by it, but still feel entitled to express the opinion that they don't get what the big deal is and don't understand the "ferocious opposition" to the D.I.

This is why. Comprendo?

re: #13 Cognito
Better sources please? Enquiring minds and all that. I would like to know about these folks.

re: #14 Sharmuta

Very much why I equate the motives and tactics of the Dishonesty Institute with those of modern leftists.

re: #19 pingjockey

Better sources please? Enquiring minds and all that. I would like to know about these folks.

Are you quite serious?

When the Russian forces stormed the schoolhouse where Chechnyan terrorists were holding hundreds of students hostage, it was obvious they were about 1/2 step above keystone kops.

I wouldn't say war with them is necessary btw, we should find a way to make them hopelessly broke (poor). It's pretty apparent who the aggressor is, and what they want to happen to the price of oil...cease the buying of their oil (Europe...else you *are* complicit), let them sell it to Cuba, and let's get some more of our own plentiful oil.

Let's fuck their market over.

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

Very much why I equate the motives and tactics of the Dishonesty Institute with those of modern leftists.

And you're quite right to do so. We on the right decry the use of moral relativism by the left to water down education in this country, yet so many are blind to the same tactic when used by people supposedly on our side.

re: #21 Cognito
I am. You know a lot about the media, correct. I figure you'd know some good sources for info on these folks.

DI is out of whack with Reality, I've been reading papers in the region and find Yuri to be slimey to the extreme.

re: #23 Orbit Rain

I wouldn't say war with them is necessary btw, we should find a way to make them hopelessly broke (poor). It's pretty apparent who the aggressor is, and what they want to happen to the price of oil...cease the buying of their oil (Europe...else you *are* complicit), let them sell it to Cuba, and let's get some more of our own plentiful oil.

Let's fuck their market over.

Sounds swell. Can you think of any reason that wouldn't work?

re: #23 Orbit Rain

Last time I looked, it was the US that was broke. Just sayin'...

re: #13 Cognito

Am I the only one who feels a little queasy about searching for facts about this conflict at two sources from the "Discovery Institute" and "La Russophobe"?

There are better sources out there, when it comes time to form a stance.

I posted this link on the other thread.
Report of the Secretary-General on the situation in
Abkhazia, Georgia
Its a report from UNOMIG, the UN Official Mission in Georgia, and it spells out the chronology of the conflict in a pretty balanced perspective.

re: #25 pingjockey

For starters, you can find typically find excellent and even-handed -- and directly gathered -- international reportage and analysis here.

Relevant story on their front page now.

Same for here.

re: #30 Cognito
Thank you. Going to get my fair share of the view now.

Don't these people know the true nature of Putin? Do they approve of a KGB man's ordering the deaths of his opponents? The poisonings? The drive to consolidate power and shove his POV down others' throats.

Oops. I think I touched on something in that last question.

re: #31 pingjockey

Sho 'nuff.

Who am I to wonder about his true nature? Well, his fruits are evidence.

re: #21 Cognito

Are you quite serious?

Here is another link.Applebaum sources are hard to find? you have any? spill. Good maps are also hard to find.

re: #32 MandyManners

This guy Mamchur is the spawn of Soviet party hacks. Why would he be opposed to Putin?

re: #13 Cognito

Am I the only one who feels a little queasy about searching for facts about this conflict at two sources from the "Discovery Institute" and "La Russophobe"?

There are better sources out there, when it comes time to form a stance.

Waiting for better sources? Kind of like waiting on the MSM to investigate John Edwards when only the Enquirer was following up the leads?

re: #30 Cognito
Heard of the Economist, never read it. WSJ I have read upon occasion. Thanks again.

re: #30 Cognito

For starters, you can find typically find excellent and even-handed -- and directly gathered -- international reportage and analysis here.

Relevant story on their front page now.

Same for here.

A ding, for giving a clear, helpful answer without games or obfuscation. Bravo.

So now the Discovery Institute is allying itself with Russian aggression in Georgia? This from an organization that purports to defend religious principles?

Are these people nuts? Or just demonic? (I think I've figured out who the Anti-Christ is, and it isn't Obama . . .)

Not that I'm perfect and pure. To the contrary.

re: #26 Thanos

DI is out of whack with Reality, I've been reading papers in the region and find Yuri to be slimey to the extreme.

Yes, the slime factor is off the charts. The Discovery Institute is very connected with Russia Today, the Kremlin's propaganda TV network.

Earlier, the DI's blog said:

Georgian army rocket batteries firing on Ossetian cities and villages Friday, August 8. As the result of this bombardment, 1,400 civilians, including women and children, and 10 Russian peacekeepers died the first night of the Georgian attack.

I would like to know the source of that statement and the attached photograph.

Did the Georgian Army launch a military attack including rockets targeting cities on 8 Aug?

Historically, what happened before a fire is important.

re: #24 Sharmuta

I don't know if it's blindness as much as it is a willingness to excuse dirty tricks when they are being used by those who share the same sacred cow.

Like the Imams who carry on and on about the injustice of a Mo' toon, but refuse to issue a condemning word about violent jihadis.

No one is going to do anything. I suspect Georgia will fall in a matter of days.

Hey Ukraine! Guess what? You're next!

Not sure who in Europe will follow afterwards, maybe the Poles? Or maybe the Checks? Of course they got plenty of time, it'll be a few years before they take the Ukraine.

re: #36 Sharmuta

This guy Mamchur is the spawn of Soviet party hacks. Why would he be opposed to Putin?

I'm speaking of the rest of them. Putin's actions speak for themselves.

re: #33 Cognito

Sho 'nuff.

No, Shonuff.

re: #31 pingjockey

Thank you. Going to get my fair share of the view now.

Dinged you up for the lyrics.

re: #42 Charles

Yes, the slime factor is off the charts. The Discovery Institute is very connected with Russia Today, the Kremlin's propaganda TV network.

Wow. Thanks for posting this. It's an eye-opener.

re: #45 Banner

No one is going to do anything. I suspect Georgia will fall in a matter of days.

Hey Ukraine! Guess what? You're next!

Not sure who in Europe will follow afterwards, maybe the Poles? Or maybe the Checks? Of course they got plenty of time, it'll be a few years before they take the Ukraine.

I suspect NOT the Poles.

re: #47 MandyManners

I'm speaking of the rest of them. Putin's actions speak for themselves.

I don't think the DI cares so long as they get to spread their anti-reason agenda.

You know what? As long as Russia is occupied, what say we invade Cuba? Maybe a little 'quid pro quo' for a change?

(yes that's sarcasm people)

re: #49 MandyManners

I figured some smart Lizard would get it!

re: #41 MandyManners

Not that I'm perfect and pure. To the contrary.

I don't get it. A site that espouses creationism supporting Russia? Fascist Russia is Russian Orthodox in theory, but Mafia in practice. It's creepy, and it makes me question their (Disco's) motives.

Russia bombs our allies, and we watch the Olympics. Here, have some bread and a couple of tickets to the circus.*

*I do like the Olympics, but this one reminds me a little of Berlin, 1936.

Panem et circenses (sure I spelled that wrong)

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Throwbacks run in packs.

We do live in interesting times.

The DI has one obsession: discrediting science.

How this fits into the bigger framework of the DI/ID agenda is interesting. Russia is bigger than Georgia. The Orthodox church has enjoyed a resurgence. Maybe they see more potential there. Yet it is interesting. They are siding with the State that until recently required its citizens to be atheists.

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Elaborate and unnecessary.

re: #30 Cognito

Found a map there on your WSJ link.

re: #10 Tigger2005

If they would only fight like Israelis. But the problem is, the Russians, while not the greatest warriors on the planet, are not Arabs, either.

If only the Israelis would fight like Israelis.

re: #56 taxfreekiller

Watch Putin close, tfk thinks he spy's a bit of an alcohol problem,
watch his eyes and manner, seems a bit on the hangover side at times.

A Russian with a drinking problem? The hell you say.
;)

re: #60 Cognito

Elaborate and unnecessary.

Well, so are you, Cognito.

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

re: #60 Cognito

Elaborate and unnecessary.

Typical Comintern tactics.

re: #51 galloping granny
The Baltic states, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan.

re: #57 Charles

Wasn't it Kruschev who said they take us over through their schools?

re: #67 Pvt Bin Jammin

PIMF, OUR schools.

re: #57 Charles

Discuss.

Yes. It is opportune for tyranny to attack free society on every front convenient to them. Tyranny requires conflict to survive.

Just seems to me there are much more direct -- and much more effective -- ways to cripple the West than through a generations-long infiltration of our scientific decency.

Ways like?

Well, grabbing oil and gas pipelines under flimsy pretexts springs to mind.

re: #57 Charles

Much as I love conspiracy theories, I doubt they're that sophisticated. It's more likely to be ignorance disguised as religion all around.

re: #46 taxfreekiller

Russia has bad mandymanners.

8-)

re: #67 Pvt Bin Jammin

Wasn't it Kruschev who said they take us over through their schools?

I'm looking for Khrushchev quotes for it and found this one:

Do you think when two representatives holding diametrically opposing views get together and shake hands, the contradictions between our systems will simply melt away? What kind of a daydream is that?
Nikita Khrushchev

He made a good point there.

re: #52 Sharmuta

I don't think the DI cares so long as they get to spread their anti-reason agenda.

But, Putin's actions are based on reason!

re: #52 Sharmuta

I don't think the DI cares so long as they get to spread their anti-reason agenda.

And, he's quite the believer in materialism, something which the DI proposes to over-turn.

re: #57 Charles

I don't think the current crop of fascists has enough finesse to pull off a conspiracy like that. At most, some fascist appartchik has convinced Disco that Mother Russia is a traditionalist Christian land holding the line against...something.

re: #74 J.D.
He made a good point there.

Indeed.

re: #55 Palandine

I don't get it. A site that espouses creationism supporting Russia? Fascist Russia is Russian Orthodox in theory, but Mafia in practice. It's creepy, and it makes me question their (Disco's) motives.
Russia bombs our allies, and we watch the Olympics. Here, have some bread and a couple of tickets to the circus.*

*I do like the Olympics, but this one reminds me a little of Berlin, 1936.

Panem et circenses (sure I spelled that wrong)

I hope to SHOUT that you question the DI's motives!

re: #43 experiencedtraveller

I find it curious that in this day and age, there's no photos or video from within South Ossetia itself. The footage by and large is coming out of Georgia. Russia is stage managing affairs within South Ossetia.

That isn't to say that the Georgians aren't using stage managing themselves. Reuters appears to have done just that.

Still, I'm curious to know where all the footage is. I've had a number of pro Russians comment on my blog that the Georgians engaged in all manner of atrocities, and yet all we have to go on is the words of Putin and his toadies and those who are falling in line with the Russian media.

Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.
Nikita Khrushchev

Support by United States rulers is rather in the nature of the support that the rope gives to a hanged man.
Nikita Khrushchev

The more bombers, the less room for doves of peace.
Nikita Khrushchev

The press is our chief ideological weapon.
Nikita Khrushchev

The purpose of the United Nations should be to protect the essential sovereignty of nations, large and small.
Nikita Khrushchev

I was too young to pay much attention to Nikki at the time.

A cheap means of sabotage is to provide a small encouragement to enthusiastic purveyors of ignorance.

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Oh, no. Nononononononononoooooooooooooo.

*shudder*

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Egads. That makes a ton of sense.

re: #77 Palandine

I don't think the current crop of fascists has enough finesse to pull off a conspiracy like that. At most, some fascist appartchik has convinced Disco that Mother Russia is a traditionalist Christian land holding the line against...something.

I strongly disagree that they don't have the finesse or the motivation to do something like this. Vladimir Putin learned everything he knows about governing at the knee of Mother Russia.

(By which I mean the KGB, if it wasn't obvious.)

The Economist?

Those Ivory tower twits who won't sign their articles, and whose stance on issues varies with the wind?

Communism has always been an easy sell to the ignorant and to the treasonous, Hate America First crowd.

Then again, commie oil money buys a lot of hookers, coke and Chebama posters. The Soviet tactic was probably never forgotten either. Yes, it's possible, in combination or alone.

re: #66 Jim in Virginia

The Baltic states, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan.

My bet is on Armenia. Here's the latest from Jpost - [Link: www.jpost.com...]

They are preparing for an emergency airlift of Georgia's Jewish population in Israel.

This is my reasoning re Armenia - look at a map from Tbilisi south. A spit and a stone's throw due south you run into Mosul. Where the US is sandwiched between two known Russian allies - Syria & Iran. (The pipeline that runs through Georgia ends up on Syria's northern border.)

So, they have us between a rock and a hard place. If we make any military response in support of Georgia we have a three front war on our hands, Iraq is destabilized to boot and the remaining countries in the mideast that aren't keeping us busy have a green light to steam roll Israel straight into the Med.

re: #60 Cognito

Elaborate and unnecessary.

You're despicable.

re: #57 Charles

From when Ben Stein was sane.....
How to Ruin American Enterprise

1) Allow schools to fall into useless decay. Do not teach civics or history except to describe America as a hopelessly fascistic, reactionary pit. Do not expect students to know the basics of mathematics, chemistry and physics. Working closely with the teachers' unions, make sure that you dumb down standards so that children who make the most minimal effort still get by with flying colors. Destroy the knowledge base on which all of mankind's scientific progress has been built by guaranteeing that such learning is confined to only a few, and spread ignorance and complacency among the many. Watch America lose its scientific and competitive edge to other nations that make a comprehensive knowledge base a rule of the society.

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Comment A: I assume you're not talking about teachers' unions, although you could be.

Comment B: Couldn't DI also fulfill a fundraising function?

re: #57 Charles

That would be a pretty far reaching (in time) strategic plan, if indeed it exists.

Rather, I tend to believe that the goal of reducing the S/N ratio (in discussions/politics) is about immobilizing any possibility of unity of opinion.

re: #68 Pvt Bin Jammin

PIMF, OUR schools.

Among other things. What he said specifically was that they would destroy us from within. One of the very few times in my life I have ever been truly afraid was waking in the car to hear him giving that speech at the UN, screaming and pounding the podium. I've never forgotten it.

re: #2 Noam Sayin'

US over Cuba - Beach volleyball.

Women's, beach volleyball.

"Noam" -

US over Cuba - Hmmmm...

-S-

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

Opposing democracy shows a fear of freedom of thought- the same freedom of thought that allows science to explore and expand knowledge and rational thinking. It is in rational thinking where tyrants fear they will lose power. Shut down rational thinking and freedom of thought and you leave a vacuum for tyranny to occupy.

re: #71 Cognito

Just seems to me there are much more direct -- and much more effective -- ways to cripple the West than through a generations-long infiltration of our scientific decency.

Ways like?

Well, grabbing oil and gas pipelines under flimsy pretexts springs to mind.

The Russians are very fond of matryoshka plots, named after those wooden dolls where several dolls are nested one in the other.

It's part of the Russian cultural paranoia, nothing can be what it seems, you've got to have a cover for the plot, but that's not really it, it's several layers deep.

re: #85 Charles

I strongly disagree that they don't have the finesse or the motivation to do something like this. Vladimir Putin learned everything he knows about governing at the knee of Mother Russia.

(By which I mean the KGB, if it wasn't obvious.)

Never underestimate Russia's subversive shrewdness.

Never underestimate the likes of Disco's stupidity and religious supremacism either.

They are at a perfect symbiosis on this.

re: #90 Killgore Trout

From when Ben Stein was sane.....
How to Ruin American Enterprise

"They" may be making headway.

re: #85 Charles

I'd be inclined to believe they were pulling the strings if they had a strongly scientific society themselves. Their technology does not impress, and neither does their biological science. Shoot, they wouldn't have gotten the Bomb for years if the Rosenbergs (*spit*) and their buddies hadn't been supplying them with the blueprints.

Mr. Charles Johnson, of the influential conservative web-blog Little Green Footballs, has noticed our site:

Charles Johnson.
influential conservative,

Charles,
when did you put training wheels on your bike?

re: #92 freetoken

That would be a pretty far reaching (in time) strategic plan, if indeed it exists.

I don't think so. A small investment of money, comparatively speaking, and a few people in the right places is all it would take.

re: #67 Pvt Bin Jammin

Wasn't it Kruschev who said they take us over through their schools?

Paging Antonio Gramsci!

re: #88 galloping granny
If they are stupid enough to get both the US and Israel pissed at them at the same time, Russia, Syria and Iran will be very different from what they are now. Maybe not Russia so much, but Syria and Iran yes.

re: #71 Cognito

Just seems to me there are much more direct -- and much more effective -- ways to cripple the West than through a generations-long infiltration of our scientific decency.

Ways like?

Well, grabbing oil and gas pipelines under flimsy pretexts springs to mind.

Spend some time researching Antonio Gramsci.

re: #93 galloping granny

I have never forgotten it either. Been trying to find it online but nothing yet.

re: #94 Dr. Shalit

"Noam" -

US over Cuba - Hmmmm...

-S-

So, it was somewhat relevant, huh?

re: #94 Dr. Shalit

Reply to self -

Actually, Not Unexpected considering the average NUTRITION of an American (Female or Male) vs. an average CUBAN. 50 years of mismanagement makes for a nation of "runts."

-S-

re: #72 quickjustice

Much as I love conspiracy theories, I doubt they're that sophisticated. It's more likely to be ignorance disguised as religion all around.

Are you saying that a former KGB officer with billions and billion of dollars at his disposal is not sophisticated?

You, too, could benefit by studying Antonio Gramsci.

re: #43 experiencedtraveller

This claim of massive casualties caused by the Georgians , and used as a causus belli by the Kremlin has even been repeated uncritically by some on the other threads here. Yet we've not seen any evidence, even from the Russians, upholding that claim. No photos of dead, no real evidence of the destruction they claim the Georgians caused in the South Ossetian capitol, zilch, but only their say so. I see all over foreign news people repeating the Kremlin claim of 2,000 killed by the Georgians, but no evidence of any kind but their say so. Not a whole lot of info forthcoming on military casualties, either side, either. I agree with you on this, the only source of that statement is the Kremlin and the Discovery Institute seems to have no problem accepting what they say at face value.

re: #89 MandyManners

You're despicable.

Wow. You've clearly got strong feelings on the issue of Russian entanglements with the Discovery Institute, Mandy.

re: #75 MandyManners

But, Putin's actions are based on reason!

Putin's actions are based on a desire for power.

re: #85 Charles

I strongly disagree that they don't have the finesse or the motivation to do something like this. Vladimir Putin learned everything he knows about governing at the knee of Mother Russia.

(By which I mean the KGB, if it wasn't obvious.)

I'm pretty sure he's studied Gramsci.

re: #104 MandyManners

Paging Antonio Gramsci!

Yep.

Wasn't it Kruschev who said they take us over through their schools?

Marxist thought is already rampant in our local school systems and local governments via the organized Social Justice efforts. Those people are twisted enough to allow ID into the classrooms if it fits their version of power.

Ed Meese is on their board of directors isn't he? He probably would know something of their funding.

But yes I think our externally enemies are looking for ways to weaken us internally. I think if the DI gave them an opening they would use it.

Heck yes, gold for both Phelps and Coughlin.

Go America, go.

re: #108 Noam Sayin'

Noam -

With GEORGIA on my mind - AND - RUSSIA wanting to "re-setup" bases in CUBA - "YUP!"

-S-

Remember, the Russians have a history odf convoluted plots and aiding supposedly benign organizations. Veit Nam protestors come to mind. The Anti-nuke protests in Europe in the 80s. This is definetly something they could and would support.

re: #116 hazzyday

Marxist thought is already rampant in our local school systems and local governments via the organized Social Justice efforts. Those people are twisted enough to allow ID into the classrooms if it fits their version of power.

Ed Meese is on their board of directors isn't he? He probably would know something of their funding.

But yes I think our externally enemies are looking for ways to weaken us internally. I think if the DI gave them an opening they would use it.

Marxist thought began taking over our schools nearly 100 years ago, courtesy of Columbia, which has the #1 most influential school of education in the country.

re: #91 Gearhead

Comment A: I assume you're not talking about teachers' unions, although you could be.

Comment B: Couldn't DI also fulfill a fundraising function?

Teachers' unions are hotbeds of GRAMSCIAN WHORES.

re: #119 pingjockey

Remember, the Russians have a history odf convoluted plots and aiding supposedly benign organizations. Veit Nam protestors come to mind. The Anti-nuke protests in Europe in the 80s. This is definetly something they could and would support.

See my re: #97 jcm

re: #119 pingjockey

Remember, the Russians have a history odf convoluted plots and aiding supposedly benign organizations. Veit Nam protestors come to mind. The Anti-nuke protests in Europe in the 80s. This is definetly something they could and would support.

And note that a number of those known communist sponsored and funded organizations of Vietnam protestors are alive and well today. Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) readily come to mind. Both active on virtually all US college campuses today.

re: #116 hazzyday

Ed Meese is on their board of directors isn't he? He probably would know something of their funding.

Ed Meese is on who's board?

re: #95 taxfreekiller

Putin knows how to cook up commie stuff, his grandfather was a cook for the original thugs Lenin and Stalin both,, I think I read somewhere that thing.

His daddy was a Commie who ignored his mother's Russian Orthodox activities.

re: #119 pingjockey

Yes, but those are identifiably left-wing causes. What I don't get is that one thinks of creationism as a right-wing cause.

I simply don't understand why Disco has a crush on Russia. Still, I reckon things may become clearer as the Russia blog progresses.

re: #108 Noam Sayin'

Hi to you, too, Noam. It has been quite awhile! Good to see you're still here. Seeing you here reminds me that I need to catch up on Thomas Sowell. Still reading him?

re: #122 jcm
Mumble grumble make me go all the way back up thread! Spot on.

OT: "Obama backer George Clooney plans a movie on Osama bin Laden's driver"

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

"George Clooney, one of Hollywood's most prominent backers of Democratic Sen. Barack Obama for president, has bought the movie rights to tell the story of Osama bin Laden's driver."

"According to the report in the Guardian, the book sympathetically portrays Hamdan and his Navy lawyer, Charles Swift, as the little guys up against the powerful forces of the United States government. Clooney, who is reportedly offering policy and speaking advice plus also helping Obama raise money from within the wealthy, liberal Hollywood community, is said to covet the role of Swift for himself."

DESPICABLE. ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE.

re: #123 galloping granny
Oh yeah. Minds full of mush as Rush says.

re: #126 Palandine

Yes, but those are identifiably left-wing causes. What I don't get is that one thinks of creationism as a right-wing cause.

I simply don't understand why Disco has a crush on Russia. Still, I reckon things may become clearer as the Russia blog progresses.

Do a search at La Russophobe for "Russia Blog." You might be surprised by what you read.

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

re: #57 Charles

A thought experiment: suppose you're a country that's opposed to democracy, and you want to subvert the US by damaging the education system and devaluing scientific knowledge. Might it be to your benefit to support an organization that promotes a pseudo-scientific hoax that will destroy America's advantage in the biological sciences?

Discuss.

If any political construct is expert at rot from the inside out, it would certainly be Russia. America is all too often accused of same, but at its core are principles that just won't go away, much to the dismay of haters and nuts of all stripes.

Thanks again for your little green island of sanity, Charles.

re: #121 MandyManners

Teachers' unions are hotbeds of GRAMSCIAN WHORES.

William Ayers specialty is......
education theory, policy and practice.

OT

Normally I don't like smooth-shaven guys, but these male swimmers are really cute.

re: #127 J.D.

Hi to you, too, Noam. It has been quite awhile! Good to see you're still here. Seeing you here reminds me that I need to catch up on Thomas Sowell. Still reading him?

I work with a guy who is a big fan of his as well. We trade articles back and fort. I've even turned a few people on to him.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

Why are you so eager to defend the Discovery Institute? This is not the first time you've done it.

re: #112 Cognito

Wow. You've clearly got strong feelings on the issue of Russian entanglements with the Discovery Institute, Mandy.

Big fucking deal. At least I don't insult a blog's owner by calling his ideas "elaborate and unnecessary".

Now, go away, boy. You're bothering me.

re: #113 Sharmuta

Putin's actions are based on a desire for power.

So are those of the DI.

re: #117 Cognito

Heck yes, gold for both Phelps and Coughlin.

Hooray for Fred and John! America rules!

Hail to Obama

It helps remind all of us how important proper tire inflation is.

re: #115 Pvt Bin Jammin

Yep.

I've been trying to find my links but, they're scattered.

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Ha. Another gold and silver for Peirsol and Grevers, as well.

(Do those names!)

re: #80 lawhawk

I find it curious that in this day and age, there's no photos or video from within South Ossetia itself.

Socor states: “The attacking forces began destroying the transmission antennae of Georgian mobile telephone systems.

Modern communication/information systems may be very fragile?

re: #126 Palandine

Yes, but those are identifiably left-wing causes. What I don't get is that one thinks of creationism as a right-wing cause.

I simply don't understand why Disco has a crush on Russia. Still, I reckon things may become clearer as the Russia blog progresses.

I think it's because there is an analogy between ID and communism- that of a centralized planner, whereas evolution can be compared to capitalism where environmental pressures to evolve are synonymous to market forces.

ID by all means should be seen as a left wing cause, but because it is being forced by members of the right, it isn't.

re: #119 pingjockey

Remember, the Russians have a history odf convoluted plots and aiding supposedly benign organizations. Veit Nam protestors come to mind. The Anti-nuke protests in Europe in the 80s. This is definetly something they could and would support.

Hollywood.

re: #136 Noam Sayin'

The last time (been awhile) I checked, Mr. Sowell was no fan of Obama.

Heh.

I expect that hasn't changed. Well, I'd bet my life on it, actually.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

That certainly isn't what I think.

re: #14 Sharmuta

I'm not surprised to learn Mr. Mamchur is a closet soviet hack and thus supports ID. What could be more communist than ID with it's centralized planning and opposition to free market forces?

As Ken Miller brilliantly points out in his book Only A Theory, evolution is very much like capitalism- it's survival of the fittest, if you will.

There's a book titled BIONOMICS: The Economy as an Ecosystem by Michael Rothschild which treats economics as a branch of biology. I have a copy of the first edition stashed away somewhere around here.

re: #133 The Shadow Do

If any political construct is expert at rot from the inside out, it would certainly be Russia.

If the events of the past few days have told us anything, it's that the Cold War never really ended. I'm not saying that my little thought experiment is the reality. But if you don't think Russia is capable of this kind of subterfuge, you simply haven't been paying attention for the last 60 years.

re: #132 Cognito
Nope. Not me anyway. Just helping to fund another group to undermine education. Like Granny said, SDS, ISM, etc...are still alive and kicking

re: #124 rawmuse

The Discovery Institute. I will have to go check again.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

It's not like they haven't been doing exactly that for 75 years around the world or anything.

Michael Phelps' victory dance is innate, scientists say

Chimps do it. Gorillas do it. Michael Phelps does it too.

The exuberant dance of victory -- arms thrust toward the sky and chest puffed out at a defeated opponent -- turns out to be an instinctive trait of all primates -- humans included, according to research released Monday.

American monkeys rule!

re: #152 hazzyday

The Discovery Institute. I will have to go check again.

Wow. I would be disappointed to learn that, if true.

re: #143 Cognito

You've stumped me on that one.

re: #35 hazzyday

Here is another link.Applebaum sources are hard to find? you have any? spill. Good maps are also hard to find.

http://www.abkhazia.com/

South Ossetia Map

This is easier than explaining how scientist have found non-fossilized T-Rex bones that contain red blood cells after millions of years...

/just saying

re: #150 Charles

I'm a little short of the 60 thing myself, but I've definitely gotten the gist.

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Michael Phelps' victory dance is innate, scientists say

American monkeys rule!

ROFLMAO!

re: #136 Noam Sayin'

I work with a guy who is a big fan of his as well. We trade articles back and fort. I've even turned a few people on to him.

I highly recommend Sowell's RACE AND CULTURE: A World View

Georgia has always been a bastion of free trade -- even in Soviet days, the black marketeering was rampant, and they've been capitialists since ancient days. Unfortunately they also have a history of being invaded by Iran and Russia in alternating waves.

re: #159 jcm

Liberty and bananas for all.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

I think Russia would use any means at their disposal to undermine this country; using more than one means that if one doesn't work, the next one may, or maybe there will just be an aggregate effect. Some of the things Russia does will be easily seen; others will be done quietly.

I don't think it's far-fetched at all to think that Russia would use the DI in an attempt to weaken our educational system.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

Are you really that ignorant of the history of Marxist influence in the West?

re: #149 The Other Les

Thanks- I might have to squeeze that into my stack-o-books to get through.

re: #138 MandyManners

Big fucking deal. At least I don't insult a blog's owner by calling his ideas "elaborate and unnecessary".

Now, go away, boy. You're bothering me.

Um, no Mandy. I'm not saying Charles' idea "elaborate and unnecessary."

I'd say any sort of thinking on Russia's ambitions, at this point, is highly necessary.

I was discussing on the plan put forth, as Charles suggested with "discuss." And I think the plan is more elaborate than required, for the Russians, and unnecessary, since they can hurt us in simpler ways.

So no need for name-calling. Not that "no need" ever stopped someone with determination.

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

Very much why I equate the motives and tactics of the Dishonesty Institute with those of modern leftists.

Both are cases of false authority in action.

re: #131 Charles

Charles -

Does the word "SAMIZDAT" ring a bell?

-S-

Adjunct Fellow Ed Meese is .. Now if it's the same one...

About the Discovery Institute.

President
Bruce Chapman

Vice President
Steven J Buri
Stephen C Meyer

Board of Directors
Howard Ahmanson
Tom Alberg
Charles K Barbo
Christopher T Bayley
Bruce Chapman
Robert J Cihak
Slade Gorton
Richard R. Greiling
Robert J Herbold
Susan Hutchison
Michael D Martin
Byron Nutley
James Spady
Michael K Vaska
Raymond J Waldmann

Senior Fellows
Robert J Cihak
George Gilder
Hance Haney
David Klinghoffer
Stephen C Meyer
Wesley J Smith
John G West
John Wohlstetter

Adjunct Fellows
Howard L Chapman
Frank Dillow
Edwin Meese
Robert Spitzer

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Who knew?

re: #152 hazzyday

Yep. They have him listed as an Adjunct Fellow. Whatever that is.
I'd be willing to bet Ed does not even know what goes on there.

re: #134 jcm

William Ayers specialty is......
education theory, policy and practice.

Isn't Bernadette Dohrn's, also?

Paging George Soros!

re: #119 pingjockey

Remember, the Russians have a history odf convoluted plots and aiding supposedly benign organizations. Veit Nam protestors come to mind. The Anti-nuke protests in Europe in the 80s. This is definetly something they could and would support.

That history runs back to pre-Soviet days.

Ref :the DI - Russia Blog link

I lean toward a simple explanation. The disparate interests of a key individual (fundraiser or organizational leader). Not cohesively related.

Kind of like Charles' interest in both the danger of Islamic extremism and digital camera play.

I'm sure a troll here can figure out the deep conspiracy linking these two recurring themes at LGF.

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Michael Phelps' victory dance is innate, scientists say

American monkeys rule!

What a load of useless crap.

re: #157 slokat

http://www.abkhazia.com/

South Ossetia Map

This is easier than explaining how scientist have found non-fossilized T-Rex bones that contain red blood cells after millions of years...

/just saying

Want to have some map fun.
Google maps... Republic of Georgia.

Top return?

Banana Republic‎ - more info »
xxx City Cir, Peachtree City, GA

re: #137 Charles

Why are you so eager to defend the Discovery Institute? This is not the first time you've done it.

What?

I have no defense for the Discovery Institute because I haven't the faintest clue who they are, beyond what I've read here. And from what I've read here, they sound like a pack of absolute morons.

In what I laid out there I'm not defending them by any stretch. I'm defending Occam.

re: #137 Charles

Why are you so eager to defend the Discovery Institute? This is not the first time you've done it.

Maybe he's thinks he shows his superior intellect by being a turd in the punchbowl.

re: #150 Charles

If the events of the past few days have told us anything, it's that the Cold War never really ended. I'm not saying that my little thought experiment is the reality. But if you don't think Russia is capable of this kind of subterfuge, you simply haven't been paying attention for the last 60 years.

re: #60 Cognito

Elaborate and unnecessary.

spot-on Charles.

russian support of DI makes perfect sense when you consider its subversive potential.

re: #162 Killgore Trout

Liberty and bananas for all.

That would solve about 95% of earth's conflicts...

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

When both parties (the Russian paleo-Commies [and their American acolytes] and the DI) apparently have/have had the common goals of the destruction of American mores and standards from within and without to remake in their own images and have each other's backs, then the answer to your question is: It's a definite possibility.

There have been stranger bedfellows in the realm of international politics....

re: #177 Cognito

What?

I have no defense for the Discovery Institute because I haven't the faintest clue who they are, beyond what I've read here. And from what I've read here, they sound like a pack of absolute morons.

I agree. It's very clear that you "haven't the faintest clue" about this issue.

re: #42 Charles

Yes, the slime factor is off the charts. The Discovery Institute is very connected with Russia Today, the Kremlin's propaganda TV network.

They're still doing the "schoolchildren presenting flowers to Soviet Russian soldiers" gag on video.

re: #150 Charles

If the events of the past few days have told us anything, it's that the Cold War never really ended. I'm not saying that my little thought experiment is the reality. But if you don't think Russia is capable of this kind of subterfuge, you simply haven't been paying attention for the last 60 years.

I think the Russians will gladly ally and support anything detrimental to the USA. Simple as that.

re: #145 Sharmuta

You're probably right. I just find the whole thing confusing. The Communists were all about atheism, and creationism has, well, a Creator. I just have to keep reminding myself that these are fascists, not communists. As someone said on an earlier post, it's like the book 1984--these guys' ideology is power, nothing more and nothing less.

I just hate it when life is like "Red Dawn." Somebody's keeping an eye on the Venezuelans and the Cubans, right?

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Michael Phelps' victory dance is innate, scientists say

American monkeys rule!

Damn right.

re: #85 Charles

I also find it really, really creepy that Putin is making all these claims (he claims, genocide has been committed by the Georgians -- yet we see Russian bombers and helicopters strafing apartment buildings and Russian tanks rolling along; he claims towns have been wiped off the map by the Georgians, yet we see the displaced fleeing a Russian advance; he claims X, Y, Z -- all done by the evil Georgians; then Putin claims that the MSM has reversed everything and gotten everything "wrong"; so Putin claims that the Media paints Georgians "white", Russians "black" -- but I guess Putin hasn't been listening to the actual BBC reports, etc....again, we get these stark blacks/whites -- and meanwhile chaos and confusion (with respect to truth) reigns...I find it's so reminiscent of the Soviet era...)

re: #57 Charles

http://www.randi.org/joom/commentary/swift/swift-a ugust-8-2008.html

James Randi mentioned some history of how nonsense mystical research pervaded the USSR (doubtlessly to its detriment)... perhaps they're trying to infect the U.S. with the same shit?

Back and fort?

-h-

re: #163 reine.de.tout

I don't think it's far-fetched at all to think that Russia would use the DI in an attempt to weaken our educational system.

At the very least, RdT, such promotion of ignorance results in the diversion of resources to neutralize, counter and eliminate-by-education... DI (and their supporters) are NOT a trivial problem, dealt with by a wave of the hand...

Regarding the astonishment at the number of Russian Forces and equipment suddenly moving to Georgia ;

This thing is happening only 100-150 miles way from Grozny, Chechnya. An are they have pummeled on and off for 14 years.

I remember Russia had some bad trouble with Jihadis in this region.

re: #174 monumentlizard

All it takes is a check from a dubious source landing into the hands of the DI. One check can keep the lights on for a year or employ a marginal, useful idiot to subvert individualism. And the Soviets know/knew how to do it.

So do we. :)

re: #173 Thanos

Thanos -

Bet the word "OKRANA" brings up memories.

-S-

re: #182 experiencedtraveller

That would solve about 95% of earth's conflicts...

The old line about no countries with McDonalds attacking each other is kaput.
Tiblisi got one in '99, Russia in '90.

re: #184 Charles

I agree. It's very clear that you "haven't the faintest clue" about this issue.

Well hey, go for it Charles. Insults might win the day.

This is like the Economist calling the Brookings Institute a non-partisan think tank.....hilarious

re: #187 Palandine

You're probably right. I just find the whole thing confusing. The Communists were all about atheism, and creationism has, well, a Creator. I just have to keep reminding myself that these are fascists, not communists. As someone said on an earlier post, it's like the book 1984--these guys' ideology is power, nothing more and nothing less.

I just hate it when life is like "Red Dawn." Somebody's keeping an eye on the Venezuelans and the Cubans, right?

You are kidding yourself if you think the communists were about atheism. That is the farthest thing from the truth. They were against traditional religion and the traditional Christian God because that was the basis for the legitimacy of imperial rule. Don't think for a half second that they did not substitute worship of the state and Lenin the God in his tomb as every bit as much a religion as the one that it replaced.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. The masses always require an opiate.

re: #161 Thanos

Georgia has always been a bastion of free trade -- even in Soviet days, the black marketeering was rampant, and they've been capitialists since ancient days. Unfortunately they also have a history of being invaded by Iran and Russia in alternating waves.

Scary thought: Maybe Putin is trying to protect Russia's middle-western belly by taking over Georgia.

re: #166 Cognito

Um, no Mandy. I'm not saying Charles' idea "elaborate and unnecessary."

I'd say any sort of thinking on Russia's ambitions, at this point, is highly necessary.

I was discussing on the plan put forth, as Charles suggested with "discuss." And I think the plan is more elaborate than required, for the Russians, and unnecessary, since they can hurt us in simpler ways.

So no need for name-calling. Not that "no need" ever stopped someone with determination.

To paraphrase a great American: "You stupid bastard. I READ YOUR POST."

re: #186 The Shadow Do

So will many other Collectivist entities like North Korea, George Soros and Hollywood.

re: #200 MandyManners

Scary thought: Maybe Putin is trying to protect Russia's middle-western belly by taking over Georgia.

Nah - he is providing nuclear fuel to Iran. They're in cahoots.

re: #197 Cognito

Well hey, go for it Charles. Insults might win the day.

Sorry -- unlike you, I've never really been able to get that passive aggressive thing down.

re: #111 JHW

This claim of massive casualties caused by the Georgians , and used as a causus belli by the Kremlin has even been repeated uncritically by some on the other threads here. Yet we've not seen any evidence, even from the Russians, upholding that claim. No photos of dead, no real evidence of the destruction they claim the Georgians caused in the South Ossetian capitol, zilch, but only their say so. I see all over foreign news people repeating the Kremlin claim of 2,000 killed by the Georgians, but no evidence of any kind but their say so. Not a whole lot of info forthcoming on military casualties, either side, either. I agree with you on this, the only source of that statement is the Kremlin and the Discovery Institute seems to have no problem accepting what they say at face value.

Sadly, truth is usually for the historians tho' we can be confident that it eventually seeps out.

What a very strange group of people comprise this Discovery Institute. I'd not heard of them until I read a really stupid editorial at National Review that said the only way McCain could beat Obama was to get all religious. You know, because Obama's campaign brought about a religious fervor in his followers, McCain had to try to do the same.

ICK

I'm out lizards.

Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.

Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.
Ronald Reagan

re: #51 galloping granny

I suspect NOT the Poles.

I once heard an nasty joke from an ethnic Pole (he was a precinct captain in the local Democratic Party) which went something like this: If Poland were ever to get into another war with both Germany and Russia they would fight the Germans first and then the Russians, "duty first, fun later."

That's what he said.

re: #169 hazzyday

How many Ed Meeses do you suppose are in American politics?

I've long disliked him. I almost equate him with Pat Buchanan.

re: #204 Charles

Sorry -- unlike you, I've never really been able to get that passive aggressive thing down.

All right, man. I thought we were talking about Russia. Apparently I was wrong.

re: #187 Palandine

Commies and fascists are similar in that they want the state to be the ultimate authority- a religion of state if you will. Now- if you look at some of the more radical groups like Dominionists and Christian Reconstructionists that support ID & creationism, you'll see that the bridging of that gap is not so far.

Good article, Charles. Changed the way I think about Saakashvili.

re: #203 galloping granny

Nah - he is providing nuclear fuel to Iran. They're in cahoots.

And worse, when Russia takes Georgia BACK into Russian 'control', it will fester and rankle, both from within and (internationally) from without! Russia is making a serious mistrake, in Georgia!

re: #203 galloping granny

Nah - he is providing nuclear fuel to Iran. They're in cahoots.

Doing both at the same time!

If he knows Iran is on the verge, and that the shit is gonna' hit the fan soon, why would he not protect his nation by taking over Georgia?

There are segments of the political spectrum out there agitating for something like Jerry Pournelle's "CoDominion". ( This is the US and Russia allied tightly, and dominating the world as an empire through superior force and technology. )

You see occasional flickers of things like railways and pipeline projects to connect Russia to the Pacific NW via a Bering Sea Bridge.

re: #171 rawmuse

Yep. They have him listed as an Adjunct Fellow. Whatever that is.
I'd be willing to bet Ed does not even know what goes on there.

The Gates foundation also gives them money for a transportation project.

Though in the minority, funding also comes from non-conservative sources: The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $1 million in 2000 and pledged $9.35 million over 10 years in 2003, including $50,000 of Bruce Chapman's $141,000 annual salary. The money of the Gates Foundation grant is "exclusive to the Cascadia project" on regional transportation, according to a Gates Foundation grant maker.[

Versus the local Bullit foundation.

The Bullitt Foundation, which gave $10,000 in 2001 for transportation causes, withdrew all funding of the institute; its director, Denis Hayes, called the institute "the institutional love child of Ayn Rand and Jerry Falwell," and said, "I can think of no circumstances in which the Bullitt Foundation would fund anything at Discovery today.

re: #187 Palandine

You're probably right. I just find the whole thing confusing. The Communists were all about atheism, and creationism has, well, a Creator. I just have to keep reminding myself that these are fascists, not communists. As someone said on an earlier post, it's like the book 1984--these guys' ideology is power, nothing more and nothing less.

I just hate it when life is like "Red Dawn." Somebody's keeping an eye on the Venezuelans and the Cubans, right?

Yeah, it's very bizarre. And their willing embrace of Islamists to help further their cause. It makes it way to easy for morons like Andi Sullivan to squeal about the "Taliban wing of the Republican Party."

Could this war also be a diversionary tactic to take the pressure off Iran? Iran knowing that if Georgia was under attack, the US would not escalate anything with Iran? We know Russia is in bed with Iran, so maybe this serves two purposes.

I LOVE the picture on drudge right now of Bush staring down Putin. Can you say ALPHA MALE! Obama take note....cause you have no clue.

re: #217 funky chicken

Then please see my follow up at #211.

re: #177 Cognito

What?

I have no defense for the Discovery Institute because I haven't the faintest clue who they are, beyond what I've read here. And from what I've read here, they sound like a pack of absolute morons.

In what I laid out there I'm not defending them by any stretch. I'm defending Occam.

Oh, good grief.

re: #189 J.S.

I also find it really, really creepy that Putin is making all these claims (he claims, genocide has been committed by the Georgians -- yet we see Russian bombers and helicopters strafing apartment buildings and Russian tanks rolling along; he claims towns have been wiped off the map by the Georgians, yet we see the displaced fleeing a Russian advance; he claims X, Y, Z -- all done by the evil Georgians; then Putin claims that the MSM has reversed everything and gotten everything "wrong"; so Putin claims that the Media paints Georgians "white", Russians "black" -- but I guess Putin hasn't been listening to the actual BBC reports, etc....again, we get these stark blacks/whites -- and meanwhile chaos and confusion (with respect to truth) reigns...I find it's so reminiscent of the Soviet era...)

I find it reminiscent of a much earlier conflict: The Balkans. You hear now all these revisionist accounts, of how black was white and white was black, and those who committed ethnic cleansing were actually the ones ethnically cleansed, and the butchers were actually the victims, and so on and so forth.

Only that these revisionists have the cloud of a decade of disinterest to help their case. Now that people have forgotten what's happened, it's easy to claim anything.

Putin is really brass for resorting to live revisionism: trying to spin things upside down right as they are happening.

re: #204 Charles

Nice one.

re: #196 jcm

The old line about no countries with McDonalds attacking each other is kaput.
Tiblisi got one in '99, Russia in '90.

jcm -

Automotively, with GM - "OPEL" and Ford - "Ford." Germany was a beneficiary of this from the 1920's through the end of WWII. The rest IS history.

-S-

re: #193 RTLM

Regarding the astonishment at the number of Russian Forces and equipment suddenly moving to Georgia ;

This thing is happening only 100-150 miles way from Grozny, Chechnya. An are they have pummeled on and off for 14 years.

I remember Russia had some bad trouble with Jihadis in this region.

But the Russians also employed those self-same Chechens to chase the real Georgians out of the regions they were interested in during the early 90's. Estimated 200 - 250 thousand fled or were forcibly moved.

re: #209 MandyManners

How many Ed Meeses do you suppose are in American politics?

I've long disliked him. I almost equate him with Pat Buchanan.

In these days of vigorus fact checking and internet disinformation. I had to check to make sure. But yes, it is the Reagan Meese

Well shit. I'm tired. G'night kids!

re: #200 MandyManners

DING DING DING...Russia's trying to recreate a "friendly" buffer zone for Russia proper, hence their temper tantrum over Georgia's interest in entering in NATO. If that had happened, Russia couldn't attack Georgia without bringing the US and other NATO members into it because of the mutual defense clause.

re: #208 The Other Les

I once heard an nasty joke from an ethnic Pole (he was a precinct captain in the local Democratic Party) which went something like this: If Poland were ever to get into another war with both Germany and Russia they would fight the Germans first and then the Russians, "duty first, fun later."

That's what he said.

Americans say, "business before pleasure."

I MISS BABBAZEE!

re: #199 galloping granny

I file that under "love of power," but I see your point.

Just so I'm clear:
I despise fascist Russia, just as I despised growing up with the fear that Soviet Russia was going to make "The Day After" into a work of nonfiction.

I dislike what the Disco Institute is up to in the schools, although I tend to stay away from those threads and don't REALLY have a dog in that fight.

I find the Disco Institute's alliance with fascist Russia alarming and confusing. I'll have to do some reading at La Russophobe and see if I can make sense of it.

re: #230 MandyManners

I don't.

re: #219 DistantThunder

Nice nuclear plant you guys built for the Iranians at Bushehr. It would be a shame if something happened to it.

re: #222 medaura18586

Oh, the obligatory Robert Spencer bash. On a thread about the DI and its pro-Russia slant.

re: #96 Sharmuta

Opposing democracy shows a fear of freedom of thought- the same freedom of thought that allows science to explore and expand knowledge and rational thinking. It is in rational thinking where tyrants fear they will lose power. Shut down rational thinking and freedom of thought and you leave a vacuum for tyranny to occupy.

False authority always opposes objective observation of reality.

re: #230 MandyManners

From your mouth to God's ears!

Me too!

re: #231 Palandine

I find the Disco Institute's alliance with fascist Russia alarming and confusing.

You should also be alarmed at their alliances with Turkish Islamic creationists.

re: #233 Mich-again

Nice nuclear plant you guys built for the Iranians at Bushehr. It would be a shame if something happened to it.

. . . not to mention, all of those miles and miles of poorly protected pipelines pumping oil out of Russia . . .

re: #111 JHW

I'm not sure who is claiming 2,000 killed, maybe both sides.

But you're all right, very very odd lack of pictures on any of this.

I mean, maybe there's no photoshop in Georgia, but they must have plenty of pirated copies in Russia!

Charles,

THANKS for that second link explaining the chronology. It cleared everything up!

This whole episode in Georgia is exactly, exactly like Hungary in 1956. I was a little kid who saw people throwing Molotov cocktails against tanks on the family's first TV. Made quite an impression, in fact one of my earliest memories. Why would these people kill themselves fighting tanks like that? Now I know. Russkies were bad then and they are bad now. DI et AL need be damned. You can toss "they all should step back" Obama onto that pile as well.

Nikita Khrushchev quotes:
We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism.

[Link: quotes.liberty-tree.ca...]

re: #211 Sharmuta

Fair enough. I'm Catholic, and we're looking for the conversion of Russia to Catholicism before the end (*ducks*), so I can't say I understand how some Protestant groups see Russia. :)

OK, so is Georgia going to be overrun and all the West's protestations so far will go for nought, or will this turn into a major conflict?

My strong intuition unfortunately tells me that Georgia has already fallen and won't rise again until/unless Russia falls. (not holding breath)

re: #132 Cognito

It's not an either / or situation here. It's far more complex. It's an "and" situation. Suppose you have a President of the United States who freely acknowledges that he won an election based on a religious vote (that's a vote from the Evangelicals...) now you don't like the Prez of the U.S -- you want to make sure no other such "cowboy" with that religious contingent ever again gains power. What would you do to subvert them? (hint: you get them/that's the Evangelicals to support Crazies; you get a number of them to support a fringe group -- then you point out "Hey, they're all crazy! Look at them! Can you support that?" every normal person will abandon ship -- flee...)

re: #239 itellu3times

Call in the new york times, they'll get your dead soldier pictures!

re: #230 MandyManners

I MISS BABBAZEE!

What happened to Babba? By Charles' response, would I be correct in guessing that she crossed Charles bad enough to get the stick?

re: #160 HelloDare

Put that one in the Book Category of the spin-off links for future reference AND if anyone purchases thru that link, it counts towards the Tip Jar for Charles!

Thomas Sowell Rocks! Well, probably not, he seems rather sober actually.

re: #132 Cognito

I feel like I'm witnessing the birth of an all-new conspiracy theory, this evening.

Just so we're clear: The Russians, in an effort to lash out against America, decided that the way to do it is through a marginal religious outfit that has zero standing in the scientific community, by funding their efforts in hopes that students will grow up to be bad scientists a generation from now?

Come on, guys. Is that really what you think?

That is not their whole aim. Regardless of whether it attacks our schools, Disco has an insidious effect. It is being used to funnel Russian propaganda to segments of our population that were hostile to the USSR. Putin is being clever; ditching the atheist angle and trying to subvert those Americans otherwise inclined to support robust action against tyrants. I don't mean to praise creationists too much, but they do tend to vote our way.

re: #216 hazzyday

Interesting and exceedingly convoluted.

The Bullitt Foundation, which gave $10,000 in 2001 for transportation causes, withdrew all funding of the institute; its director, Denis Hayes, called the institute "the institutional love child of Ayn Rand and Jerry Falwell," and said, "I can think of no circumstances in which the Bullitt Foundation would fund anything at Discovery today.

That's FUNNY!

re: #230 MandyManners

I do too in someways (along with many other lizards who have passed recently). But they refer to me as Igore on Babba's blog and they don't like me much. LGF has taken a new direction and they've made their choices. Personally I've liked them all and will miss them. LGF is just headed in a different direction and although we've lost some of my favorite characters I think it's for the best.

re: #234 Josephine

Oh, the obligatory Robert Spencer bash. On a thread about the DI and its pro-Russia slant.

Well it's not out of context. The director of the front group Spencer is an advisory board member of, is an aggressive anti-Western Russian lobbyist, as well as a Serbian lobbyist.

In one of his rants, he proclaimed that under no circumstances should Serbia join NATO.

Two birds with one stone there... serving his Russian overlords with the pretense of helping Serbia, and getting money from both lobbies.

In any case, the analogy is striking, in my post above, and Russian-Serbian interests and attitudes are perfectly aligned.

re: #222 medaura18586

I find it reminiscent of a much earlier conflict: The Balkans. You hear now all these revisionist accounts, of how black was white and white was black, and those who committed ethnic cleansing were actually the ones ethnically cleansed, and the butchers were actually the victims, and so on and so forth.

Only that these revisionists have the cloud of a decade of disinterest to help their case. Now that people have forgotten what's happened, it's easy to claim anything.

Putin is really brass for resorting to live revisionism: trying to spin things upside down right as they are happening.

That is the soviet way: You are not seeing what you are seeing; you do not know what you know, and you do not feel what you are feeling.

re: #71 Cognito

Just seems to me there are much more direct -- and much more effective -- ways to cripple the West than through a generations-long infiltration of our scientific decency.

Ways like?

Well, grabbing oil and gas pipelines under flimsy pretexts springs to mind.

The thing is that they have already managed a decades long infiltration. The socialist perspectives in our colleges, lower schools, and media (don't get started) did not just appear overnight or by accident. It turned into a matter of finding people with similar beliefs and feeding them the information to "properly" adjust students and consumers wordviews. Once the system was in place it ran itself.

This current situation? Not sure yet, I think that several groups that would otherwise be opposed to each other just found common ground and are now figuring out if they can deal with each other.

re: #252 Killgore Trout

You? Igore?
Huh.

re: #139 MandyManners

So are those of the DI.

For nonproductive people POWER IS LIFE.

I can't say that enough.

re: #232 Charles

I don't.

I miss her stuff about the Soviet onslaught against the West.