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An Interview with Errol Morris on Fauxtography

Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:27:31 am PDT

Documentary filmmaker Errol Morris interviewed me a few weeks ago about the Iranian fauxtography incident, and today the interview and his excellent piece on the use of faked photos is in the New York Times: Photography as a Weapon - Errol Morris.

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151 comments

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1 Ms. Missive  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:29:13am

Congrats!

2 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:29:21am

Wow! Charles in the new york times? I never thought I'd live to see the day.

3 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:29:39am

Whoa, Charles in the NYT? We really are in Bizarro World.

4 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:30:46am

I can't wait to see the comments in Morris' blog. Moonbat heads exploding!

5 laZardo  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:31:26am

The Zionist Conspiracy continues to spread.

/evil laugh

//tired from evil laugh, actually goes to sleep now. g'night!

6 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:31:48am

In the NEW YORK TIMES?!
Charles, I think it just might be time to slit your wrists.

///////LOTS of sarc

7 trailortrash  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:32:47am

Nice ! :)

8 pat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:33:01am

Wonder how many fake vessels were sunk by the fake missiles.

9 Nevergiveup  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:35:32am

re: #8 pat

Wonder how many fake vessels were sunk by the fake missiles.

Not as many as have been sunk by Iran's new unmanned stealth sub.

10 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:36:31am

A very nice piece. I hope it sends a few people to LGF today.

11 DeafDog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:39:09am

Congrats. You're famous!

Maybe now you can get a date with Rielle Hunter - I hear she's available.

12 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:41:21am

Karl Rove has quite the sense of humor. The NY Times? HAHAHAAHA

13 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:42:04am
14 Nevergiveup  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:42:25am

re: #11 DeafDog

Congrats. You're famous!

Maybe now you can get a date with Rielle Hunter - I hear she's available.

Kinda like sloppy seconds?

15 researchok  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:42:29am

good interview.

16 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:42:42am
gadfly

Even here they had to adverbially diminish.

17 Iron Fist  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:42:49am

re: #11 DeafDog

She's a little bit on the used side, isn't she?

18 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:43:01am

Interesting, but I think Morris got the Wiley E. Coyote photo explanation backwards.

The intention is not just to ridicule, but to make us think. Godzilla, emerging from the smoke of three rockets, reminds us of the danger of nuclear war. And Wile E. Coyote, reminds us of our vulnerability. Did he order his shield from the Acme Anti-Ballistic Shield Corporation? Here he is, holding his pathetic orange umbrella as the world devolves into nuclear war — another scheme to catch the Roadrunner gone horribly awry.

It was not our vulnerability at issue, but the Iranians. They're the ones who photo edited the missile launch to appear as though they all worked. They got caught.

And now all those incoming missiles are those who not only caught 'em, but what would happen if the Iranians did actually launch the missiles in the first place.

19 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:43:08am
20 realwest  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:43:56am

Gee Charles, I never really thought of you as a
"gadfly" before now! I always considered you to be the thorn that keeps jabbing the MSM in the foot to get them to lift their feet off the truth.

21 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:44:02am

Interesting undercurrent of politics there, too. As a second example of fauxtography, they show the justifications for the Iraq war, and insinuate they may be lies. (Bush Lied! People Died)

Also, this part of the question to Charles:

They want us to be impressed with the military might of Iran. With their capacity to retaliate. It says visually: if attacked, we are going to annihilate you.

Morris, for some reason, assumes that the missiles will only be used in defense or retaliation. What evidence is there to support that? That the Iranians say so? Haven't we proved Iran lies?

There is no reason not to believe these missiles might also be used as a first-strike or in an aggressive, not defensive, manner.

22 DeafDog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:44:19am

re: #14 Nevergiveup

re: #17 Iron Fist

better late than never!

:-)

23 Nevergiveup  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:45:31am

re: #22 DeafDog

re: #17 Iron Fist

better late than never!

:-)

Not always. Not always.

24 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:46:13am

THAT IS AN AMAZING PICTURE OF YOU, CHARLES!

25 slartybartfast  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:48:14am
His method is often visual, using elegant visual comparisons — jumping back in forth between two images to highlight the similarity of certain details.

Not only did Charles originate the term "fauxtography"...he's developed the "throbbing memo" technique!

Also, a BIG LIZARD was featured at the top of the article!

I feel like Flounder in "Animal House": "Oh boy, this is GREAT!"

26 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:48:35am

re: #9 Nevergiveup

Not as many as have been sunk by Iran's new unmanned stealth sub.

I have a secret picture of the new Iranian boat

27 dhg4  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:48:53am

I lost Morris when he started equating the administration in its efforts to get support for the war with the Iranian fauxtography. The pictures Colin Powell relied on weren't intended to mislead. The labels were based on the best available information at that time. That information was, unfortunately, wrong. But that doesn't prove the administration's bad faith as Morris seems to be doing.

28 DeafDog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:49:23am

re: #23 Nevergiveup

Not always. Not always.

True. As Mr. Edwards must see, it is not always a prize to be first either.

{but he was far from 1st, too}

29 lifeofthemind  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:49:42am

Good interview, congratulations. The rabbit hole the Times doesn't want to go down is exploring the ideological motivations of MSM editors that predispose them to accept images that show America as weak or our friends as criminals.

30 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:51:33am
"... Wile E. Coyote, reminds us of our vulnerability."

Love it that Wile made it into the article, but ... I saw Wile as a humorous "Iranian theocracy" figure -- hapless, kind of goofy, as the end result comes bearing down.

31 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:53:03am

And I don't agree with the comparison to obviously faked and staged photos. We know that the contrails of the planes don't actually form a boney hand.

Those aren't trying to lie to you. Fauxtography is about the lie.

Staged stuffed animals, burning tires presented as a downed airplane, cloned smoke and buildings all over Beirut, etc.

32 Charles  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:53:43am

re: #27 dhg4

I lost Morris when he started equating the administration in its efforts to get support for the war with the Iranian fauxtography. The pictures Colin Powell relied on weren't intended to mislead. The labels were based on the best available information at that time. That information was, unfortunately, wrong. But that doesn't prove the administration's bad faith as Morris seems to be doing.

I didn't read it that way. He was pointing out that even in photos that are NOT faked, the captions influence and determine how we see the picture. And it's indisputably true that those particular captions were not correct.

33 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:53:59am

It's a very well written article from the ancient MSM. Sourced links and footnotes. Very nice.

34 Hard Right  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:54:25am

re: #11 DeafDog

Congrats. You're famous!

Maybe now you can get a date with Rielle Hunter - I hear she's available.

I hear she's very easy.
It never fails. The ones you don't want to be easy, are.

35 yma o hyd  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:56:00am

Before I read the article, I just want to say that thanks to you, Charles, and the Lizards, I learned about this two years ago during the Israel-Hisbollah war.
Before that ended, I got all my info from here - and was hooked on LGF.
Took a while to find an open door - but hey, patience pays off in the end.

So - thanks, Charles, and thanks, Lizard Nation!

36 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:57:56am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

It's a very well written article from the ancient MSM. Sourced links and footnotes. Very nice.

Makes one wonder if the article was ... somehow (heh) ... "photoshopped".

37 Sol Roth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:58:13am

I LOVE HOW YOU STICK IT TO PRAVDA-WEST!

Well, it’s just very odd to see a photo on the cover of a major American newspaper that’s credited to one of our sworn mortal enemies. And I don’t think I’m the only one who finds that a bit disturbing.

38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:58:16am

Quick, someone see if the NYT stock has gone up!

39 Nevergiveup  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 9:59:55am

re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quick, someone see if the NYT stock has gone up!

Sorry, I left my magnifying glass at home.

40 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:00:14am

re: #35 yma o hyd

Before I read the article, I just want to say that thanks to you, Charles, and the Lizards, I learned about this two years ago during the Israel-Hisbollah war.
Before that ended, I got all my info from here - and was hooked on LGF.
Took a while to find an open door - but hey, patience pays off in the end.

So - thanks, Charles, and thanks, Lizard Nation!

From my own experience, I second the chronology AND the thanks to everyone here!

41 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:01:22am

re: #32 Charles

I didn't read it that way. He was pointing out that even in photos that are NOT faked, the captions influence and determine how we see the picture. And it's indisputably true that those particular captions were not correct.

Yes, but of all the captions in all the gin joints in all the world, he picked those as his examples.

Add to that the ending sentence "They can also be used to ratchet up the blind forces of rage and unreason that drag us into conflict." and I clearly see a Bush Lied! undercurrent.

Fauxtography isn't only used to trick people into supporting war, but also to trick people into opposing just wars, such as all the Hezb'allah fautography villifying the Israelis during the summer war.

42 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:02:10am

re: #32 Charles

I didn't read it that way. He was pointing out that even in photos that are NOT faked, the captions influence and determine how we see the picture. And it's indisputably true that those particular captions were not correct.

The NYT once ran a front page photo with a caption describing a group of Pakistani villagers looking at the "fragment of a US Hellfire missile" which they alleged had destroyed their house. Except that the munition wasn't a Hellfire missile, it was an intact 155 mm artillery round. The NYT editors were either too ignorant to notice or their ideological agenda precluded the possibility that they would do any fact checking.

43 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:02:20am

re: #37 Sol Roth

I LOVE HOW YOU STICK IT TO PRAVDA-WEST!

Well, it’s just very odd to see a photo on the cover of a major American newspaper that’s credited to one of our sworn mortal enemies. And I don’t think I’m the only one who finds that a bit disturbing.

And it is shocking how many people didn't see the least thing wrong with that.

44 jorline  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:04:12am

I like this post in the comments section.

Charles Johnson said: “Someone emailed me and said, ‘Go look at this photograph.’ He said, ‘This looks like there really aren’t four missiles here.’”

Who is this someone? Didn’t this second person catch the fake, not Johnson?

— Posted by John

Charles never took credit for finding it...so what's your point John?

45 mossley  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:04:51am

An interesting article, but a few things stood out. The above mentioned "gadfly" moniker, and the author's comment that Charles "questioned the authenticity" of the Killian documents, as if it wasn't established that they were fake.

46 Nevergiveup  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:05:10am

re: #32 Charles

I didn't read it that way. He was pointing out that even in photos that are NOT faked, the captions influence and determine how we see the picture. And it's indisputably true that those particular captions were not correct.

He could have just as easily used Aeriel photos of the aspirin plant Clinton destroyed in the Sudan. He picked the ones he picked for political reasons.

47 DeafDog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:05:36am

re: #32 Charles

I didn't read it that way. He was pointing out that even in photos that are NOT faked, the captions influence and determine how we see the picture. And it's indisputably true that those particular captions were not correct.

Just as a reminder of an egregious example, remember the

Burning Tires

that became a downed aircraft wreckage in the MSM.

48 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:05:47am
49 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:06:12am

re: #44 jorline

Charles never took credit for finding it...so what's your point John?

Heh. Good catch. I didn't read down that far.

50 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:06:45am

WOuld of like to read more about Arab fauxtography against Israel.

It is the NYTIMES after all.

51 TOWM  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:07:07am

#44 -
I noticed the same thing...typical LLL commentary

52 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:07:18am

re: #46 Nevergiveup

He picked the ones he picked for political reasons.

I completely agree.

53 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:07:31am

re: #20 realwest

Gee Charles, I never really thought of you as a
"gadfly" before now! I always considered you to be the thorn that keeps jabbing the MSM in the foot to get them to lift their feet off the truth.

Can you imagine Dan Rather, grinding his teeth and getting all red in the face?

54 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:10:31am

re: #42 Kenneth

Not to mention the woman holding bullets still in their shells, claiming they were fired at her. I can almost forgive the lazy ignorance that cannot tell missile fragments from artillary, but who doesn't know what a fired bullet looks like?

55 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:10:44am

Only slightly OT- My daughter will have to do a senior project this year, i.e. a term paper along with a power point presentation/speech.
One of the subjects she is considering for her project is fauxtography.

I/she would appreciate any suggestions lizards might have re a specific angle/thesis. The paper is supposed to be only 15 to 20 type-written pages (double-spaced) and the presentation under 12 minutes, so you can see that "fauxtography" is WAY too broad a topic.
What she would want to do, I think, is examine one topic........not necessarily one picture!...... in some depth, and then set that in a more general context. (Kind of like the interview we just read.)

56 Charles  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:11:21am

Here's some typical muddled thinking, from the comments:

But I could have very well done without the seeming constant and uncritical demonizing of ’sworn enemies’ (Iran).

The constant chanting of "Death to America" seems to indicate a sworn enemy to me. But what do I know?

57 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:11:53am

re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quick, someone see if the NYT stock has gone up!


Down nearly 5% for the day so far.
NYT
Price $ $13.39
Change % -4.97
Change -0.70
Day's Low $13.37
Day's High $14.24
Volume 1,064,218

58 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:11:54am

re: #54 Silhouette

surprisingly,lots of people.

59 Charles  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:12:16am

"Gadfly" means "one who provokes others into action by criticizing."

I'm OK with that description.

60 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:13:15am

Here's the staged photo the NYT ran in 2006, with a deliberately misleading caption.

61 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:13:56am

re: #59 Charles

"Gadfly" means "one who provokes others into action by criticizing."

I'm OK with that description.

But it is more than being a gadfly if you actually introduce facts and analysis. Give yourself more credit.

62 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:15:02am

re: #59 Charles

"Gadfly" means "one who provokes others into action by criticizing."

I'm OK with that description.

And also into thinking.
That's the word Socrates used to describe himself.
Not bad company!

63 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:15:54am

re: #56 Charles

Yes, but what your warmongering, fascist mind cannot understand, simpleton, is that if we would just allow our friend Iran to create nuclear weapons, took everything they told us at face value, and did not instigate them by not accepting their "right" to threaten our national security, kill our soldiers, arm our enemies, inflame the middle east, and threaten our allies with genocide, there wouldn't be a problem.

get it; warmonger!?!?

/lefty

64 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:16:20am

/Bulletin: Kos, GCP, Gahdad Bob, Babba, DL et al have had a collective seizure.

More news later.

65 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:17:15am

re: #64 NY Nana


guess where I'm going in a couple hours......

jus bragg'n

66 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:17:28am

re: #54 Silhouette

Ah yes, the Italian journalist who claimed she grabbed handfuls of bullets from the back seat of the car she was in.

67 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:18:01am

re: #65 WrathofG-d

getting a colonoscopy?

68 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:18:25am

re: #65 WrathofG-d

guess where I'm going in a couple hours......

jus bragg'n

I give up! ;) A hint, please? My first instinct was to Israel...

69 yma o hyd  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:18:28am

This gotta be the top-quote from Charles:

'But, I’ve learned that you should never attribute to cleverness what can be easily explained by stupidity.'

'Tis so - no need to tie oneself into mental knots when plain old stupidity on the other side is in 99% of the cases the real cause.

70 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:18:34am

re: #67 Kenneth

and you should see the Doctor.

/ok this is gross.

71 Sol Roth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:18:35am

re: #56 Charles

Someone's guilt pang at the self-realization that he may be acting in the same vein?

The mind is like an iceberg with 90% of our actions below the conscious waterline. Leftist editors, leftist readers uncritical of their own behavior are simply reverting to subconscious, reptilian algorithms when they can't admit the obvious. Errol and this poster may actually be rising to higher levels of thinking.

Or maybe hope springs eternal and I'm smoking sweet, sweet crack cocaine.

72 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:19:05am

re: #55 wolfie

It would be a bit of work, but it would be very effective if she could do a "zombiesque" photo journalistic report on some topic or other that made a strong, cogent, compelling argument for some point...

...and then at the very end reveal that all of the photos were fakes and the whole story was a lie.

73 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:19:40am

re: #68 NY Nana


yes. to Israel. Doing a couple weeks there. If I can sneak away maybe you will see me in a anti-ISM protest "protest" in Niilin. Rocks at the ready.

74 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:20:03am

re: #67 Kenneth

You owe me 1 can of Fresca™....that massive spew you caused is a real mess to clean up.

75 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:21:48am

re: #73 WrathofG-d

Have fun!

76 mossley  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:22:05am

re: #31 Silhouette

And I don't agree with the comparison to obviously faked and staged photos. We know that the contrails of the planes don't actually form a boney hand.

Those aren't trying to lie to you. Fauxtography is about the lie.

Staged stuffed animals, burning tires presented as a downed airplane, cloned smoke and buildings all over Beirut, etc.


True, and the tone about how people see Photoshop as evillllll! is a bit much. It's not evil. It's a tool, but one that can be easily abused. There's a world of difference in adjusting the exposure to improve the clarity of an image and inserting objects that were never there to begin with.

77 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:22:36am

re: #72 CIA Reject

It would be a bit of work, but it would be very effective if she could do a "zombiesque" photo journalistic report on some topic or other that made a strong, cogent, compelling argument for some point...

...and then at the very end reveal that all of the photos were fakes and the whole story was a lie.

Oh were I to wish that Zombie's scrot man was a fake.

78 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:23:19am

Here is a better example of a truly fake caption, done with the purpose to mislead: The Photo that started it all

The photo is real, and shows a beaten young man and Israeli police in the background. But it was captioned that the man was a Pali beaten by the Israelis. In truth, he was a Jew, attacked and beated by Palis, and being defended from further harm by the police.

79 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:23:21am

re: #77 big steve

Oh were I to wish that Zombie's scrot man was a fake.

Well, so much for lunch! :-)

80 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:23:31am

re: #75 Killgore Trout


Thank you very much. Maybe if I catch something newsworthy when I am there I'll take pics and if I am so blessed i'll get some "airtime" on some wonderful blog.

81 snowcrash  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:24:16am

Congrats Charles. Very nice interview. In spite of my opinions of NYTs reporting tactics, this definitely legitimizes your credentials as the blogosphere expert in fauxtography. Important point for me and a little glossed over by the interviewer was the "consider the source" angle.

82 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:24:22am

re: #79 CIA Reject

Well, so much for lunch! :-)

lunch nothing....I can't ever eat grapefruit again.

83 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:24:42am

re: #73 WrathofG-d

yes. to Israel. Doing a couple weeks there. If I can sneak away maybe you will see me in a anti-ISM protest "protest" in Niilin. Rocks at the ready.

G-d bless you! I am sooooo jealous. I just had a feeling.

Throw some extra ones at the ISM for me, and have a wonderful time...enjoy and savor every second.

Uh, better pick up some rocks in Israel..all the questions would make you miss your flight. Besides, using Israeli rocks on them would be a mitzvah.

84 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:25:24am

re: #66 Kenneth

Ah yes, the Italian journalist who claimed she grabbed handfuls of bullets from the back seat of the car she was in.

Actually, that isn't the instance I was talking about, but that is another good one.

I was talking about this one.

An elderly Iraqi woman shows two bullets which she says hit her house
85 Amy  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:25:34am
And even like this missile one. You start putting it out there and saying, “Oh look, this picture? It’s a fake. This picture? It’s a fake.” But you know what people remember? They don’t remember, “It’s a fake.” They remember the picture. And there are psychology studies, when you tell people that information is incorrect, they forget that it is incorrect. They only remember the misinformation. They forget the tag associated with it. They did these great studies, especially with older people. They give them information about health, Medicare, Medicaid, that kind of stuff. And they say, “this information that you heard? It’s wrong.” And what ends up happening is, that information gets ingrained into their brains, and even if they are subsequently told it’s wrong, they end up believing it.

Mohammed al-Dura. The damage is permanent.

86 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:25:54am
87 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:26:01am

re: #56 Charles

The constant chanting of "Death to America" seems to indicate a sworn enemy to me. But what do I know?

And it is Iranian political leadership doing the chanting. Source: here, here and here. This should be headline news every time in occurs.

88 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:26:17am

re: #60 Kenneth

And if you look real close, I think you can see Bert.

89 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:26:18am

re: #70 WrathofG-d

sorry... that was uncalled for.

Carry on.

90 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:26:35am

re: #59 Charles

"Gadfly" means "one who provokes others into action by criticizing."

I'm OK with that description.

Charles -

For the Record, were you accurately quoted in the article?

-S-

91 seekeroftruth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:26:53am

re: #55 wolfie

Wolfie, what about looking at how the fauxphotography colors our perspectives on world events. Comparing the Iran fake missile photos. One gives the impression of a serious threat. The real one tempers those fears by revealing that some missiles didn't go off. The end result of the real photos is maybe Iran's missile capacity isn't as good as they want us to believe.

92 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:27:02am

re: #72 CIA Reject

That is an excellent and highly creative idea!
It would make a wonderful visual presentation and a dramatic speech.
She could then analyze her own fauxtography in the termpaper, putting it in context of a general discussion and working in examples from real life.

Her geeky brother could help her w/ the photo-shopping itself.

93 itellu3times  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:27:19am

First, that's a great article, it's a little pomo, but I'm OK with that. Second, Charles comes out great, sharp, focused.

Question, this isn't in the NYT print edition, is it?

Finally, I decided the article was relaly good when I saw it included the Wiley Coyote picture.

94 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:27:29am

And they also manipulate with video. (But we already knew that, didn't we?)

Just this morning on Fox News in the Morning here in San Diego, I saw them contrast two video clips of the candidates speaking about the Russian/Georgian war. They showed BHO first, speaking almost forcefully that this Russian transgression must not stand, then they showed John McCain, saying essentially the same thing, but he stumbled on a word early in the clip and never sounded resolute throughout it. I usually don't notice such apparent bias, but this was just astonishing. And from Fox too.

95 Charles  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:28:45am

re: #90 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

For the Record, were you accurately quoted in the article?

-S-

Yes.

96 big steve  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:29:21am

re: #95 Charles

Yes.

a first!

97 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:29:37am

re: #92 wolfie

If she does decide to do it let me know how it comes out!

98 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:29:46am

re: #76 mossley

There's a world of difference in adjusting the exposure to improve the clarity of an image and inserting objects that were never there to begin with.

And beyond that, inserting things that weren't there to begin with, but not with the intention of lying. For example, making a collage of student photos from different times and events in one summary photo for the yearbook. Or a "candlelight" photo with two images of the subjects head, one face forward and one in profile and shadow. Or, the example in the article with the planes and the boney hand.

Those were adjusted, but not with the intention of making anyone believe they were reality.

99 mossley  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:29:58am

re: #55 wolfie

Only slightly OT- My daughter will have to do a senior project this year, i.e. a term paper along with a power point presentation/speech.
One of the subjects she is considering for her project is fauxtography.

I/she would appreciate any suggestions lizards might have re a specific angle/thesis. The paper is supposed to be only 15 to 20 type-written pages (double-spaced) and the presentation under 12 minutes, so you can see that "fauxtography" is WAY too broad a topic.
What she would want to do, I think, is examine one topic........not necessarily one picture!...... in some depth, and then set that in a more general context. (Kind of like the interview we just read.)


What about the guy who staged photos with the Disney stuffed animals? He went to bombed out buildings, placed little Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck plushies in the pics. The paper could discuss how easy it is to change the emotional impact of a picture, or to add implications (the evil JewsTM were deliberately targeting children) that were never in the original scene.

100 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:30:06am

re: #94 CyanSnowHawk

Oops, I take that back, it was not Fox. Aug. 1st our local Fox affiliate, XETV 6, changed over to The CW and it was that channel that I was watching. It was not our new Fox affiliate KSWB 5.

101 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:30:38am

Ok i'm off. Have a good couple ones LGF.

102 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:31:45am

re: #59 Charles

"Gadfly" means "one who provokes others into action by criticizing."

I'm OK with that description.

But...don't lizards eat gadflies?

103 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:32:07am

re: #101 WrathofG-d

Safe trip, and let us knw, if you can, how you are doing!

104 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:32:15am

re: #84 Silhouette

Right... I forgot about that one. So many to choose from.

Say Charles, I just got a great idea for an LGF fund raising project:

The Fautography coffee table book! Collect them all in a nice large format handsomely bound edition (faux lizard leather, of course.)

105 Sol Roth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:32:48am

re: #101 WrathofG-d

"Lord make him fast and accurate." ---paraphrase of the Swampfox.

106 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:34:03am

re: #91 seekeroftruth

Yes, indeed.
Did you see CIA reject's post #72?
She could do that and then in her analysis use things like the Iranian missiles and MANY Mid-Eastern fauxtographs to show how each of the techniques used in her story has actually been used......for nefarious purposes.

Needless to say, LGF will be a GOLDMINE of resources for real-life cases!

107 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:34:51am

re: #55 wolfie

She could focus on how the lying US media used staged or incorrectly captioned photos to turn the US public opinion against the liberation of Iraq.

But then again, her moonbat teachers might expel her from school...

108 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:35:31am

re: #72 CIA Reject

It would be a bit of work, but it would be very effective if she could do a "zombiesque" photo journalistic report on some topic or other that made a strong, cogent, compelling argument for some point...

...and then at the very end reveal that all of the photos were fakes and the whole story was a lie.

Too many people wouldn't read all the way to the end of the article.
Or simply wouldn't understand the part about it being a hoax.

109 Salem  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:36:08am

Socrates was known by Athenians as "the gadfly" because he cornered people with a lot of questions like "What is honor?, What is Freedom?" and then deconstructed their answers, ultimately admitting that he didn't have the answers, either. It seems some people find this annoying, much like a stubborn gadfly who won't go away.

110 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:36:15am

re: #108 Son of the Black Dog

Too many people wouldn't read all the way to the end of the article.
Or simply wouldn't understand the part about it being a hoax.

Which is what actually happens in real life...

111 Winslow  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:36:20am

Fauxtoclone
(with apologies to Paul Simon)

When I think back on all the crap the media fed me,
It’s a wonder I still have a clue.
But the exposure of Fauxtography has freed me;
This propaganda I can now see through.

Fauxtoclone
They give us those nice thick smoke trails,
They give us “Green Helmet” flaunting entrails;
Make you think all Beirut was blown away.
They got a fauxto program,
They love to make a fauxtograph.
Oh mama, please take their Fauxtoclone away.

If you took all the phony pictures propagated,
And brought them all together in one file,
You’d have a testament to treason unabated;
You’d have a monumental lying pile.

Fauxtoclone
They give us a fake construction,
They give us a staged production;
Make you think day is night, and night is day.
They’re in the fauxto business,
Disseminating fauxtographs.
Oh mama, please take their Fauxtoclone away.

And so in all the mainstream media publications,
From Reuters wires to The New York Times,
There is a flood of fauxtographic fabrications;
There is a trail of journalistic crimes.

Fauxtoclone
They give us a mocked-up missile,
They give us clean toys in rubble;
Make your heart bleed; emotions they will sway.
They run a fauxto racket,
Distributing their fauxtographs.
Oh mama, please take their Fauxtoclone away.

If you count all the times Flat Fatima’s been homeless,
And all the times the IDF’s been framed,
And all the Pallywood productions foisted on us,
You’ll realize the MSM’s to blame.

Fauxtoclone
They give us those bogus war crimes,
They give us misleading headlines;
Make you think good is bad, and bad’s okay.
They’re fauxto-journalistas,
Subverting truth with fauxtographs.
Oh mama, please take their Fauxtoclone away.

112 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:36:50am

re: #97 CIA Reject

If she does decide to do it let me know how it comes out!

I certainly will! (I had to write that down in my planner, though, because by the time the senior projects come around, I will have forgotten which lizard to credit/tell!....Not that I'm senile, mind you!)

113 soccerdad  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:37:21am

OT - FYI --

According to yahoo sports...the United states has no official language:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

114 seekeroftruth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:37:47am

re: #106 wolfie

Yes, indeed.
Did you see CIA reject's post #72?
She could do that and then in her analysis use things like the Iranian missiles and MANY Mid-Eastern fauxtographs to show how each of the techniques used in her story has actually been used......for nefarious purposes.

Needless to say, LGF will be a GOLDMINE of resources for real-life cases!

I thought CIA Reject had a terrific idea. And Mossley had an another great suggestion as well. The folks here at LGF are the best! Good luck to your daughter on her project.

115 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:37:51am

On the subject of the Iraqi woman, who claims to have been fired upon by US or coalition forces, and proves this by holding up unfired bullets, this is the correction ran by AFP.

CORRECTS BULLETS TO UNSPENT An elderly Iraqi woman holds up two unspent bullets at her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, 14 August 2007.

Get that? There is no correction to the claim that she was attacked in the raid, which clearly she wasn't. Just the correction that he attackers left these two unspent bullets at her house.

(No mention on whether they were silver)

116 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:38:15am

re: #99 mossley

Good one. Really good one.

117 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:38:56am

re: #69 yma o hyd

This gotta be the top-quote from Charles:

'But, I’ve learned that you should never attribute to cleverness what can be easily explained by stupidity.'

Johnson's Razor.

118 Hard Right  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:39:34am

re: #71 Sol Roth

Someone's guilt pang at the self-realization that he may be acting in the same vein?

The mind is like an iceberg with 90% of our actions below the conscious waterline. Leftist editors, leftist readers uncritical of their own behavior are simply reverting to subconscious, reptilian algorithms when they can't admit the obvious. Errol and this poster may actually be rising to higher levels of thinking.

Or maybe hope springs eternal and I'm smoking sweet, sweet crack cocaine.

Make sure it's the decaf kind. I hear the caffeinated stuff is bad for you. ;P

119 Bob in Breckenridge  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:39:40am

re: #113 soccerdad

OT - FYI --

According to yahoo sports...the United states has no official language:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

Actually, we don't. There have been attempts in Congress to make English our official language, but the libs keep blocking it or not allowing it to be voted on.

120 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:39:46am

re: #113 soccerdad

OT - FYI --

According to yahoo sports...the United states has no official language:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

As long as we still have borders [Total area: 3,794,083 miles² (9,826,630 km²)], I'm not too worried. More secure borders would be nice.

121 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:39:53am

re: #117 karmic_inquisitor

Johnson's Razor.

Bravo!

122 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:40:28am

re: #115 Silhouette

You just gave me an excuse to link to this hilarious video.

Viva La France!
Viva la Frogman!

123 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:41:40am

re: #108 Son of the Black Dog

Too many people wouldn't read all the way to the end of the article.
Or simply wouldn't understand the part about it being a hoax.

Teachers have to read to the end of a term-paper, and students have to at least pretend to pay attention to a presentation.
Captive audience!

124 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:42:43am

re: #11 DeafDog

Congrats. You're famous!

Maybe now you can get a date with Rielle Hunter - I hear she's available.

She's an idiot.

125 Amy  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:43:17am

re: #111 Winslow

Bravo!

126 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:43:29am

re: #117 karmic_inquisitor

Johnson's Razor.

Post of the day!

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:43:42am

re: #117 karmic_inquisitor

'But, I’ve learned that you should never attribute to cleverness what can be easily explained by stupidity.'

Johnson's Razor.

How does one suggest that this be put into the LGF Dictionary?

128 wolfie  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:43:43am

re: #114 seekeroftruth

I thought CIA Reject had a terrific idea. And Mossley had an another great suggestion as well. The folks here at LGF are the best! Good luck to your daughter on her project.

Indeed! I had a feeling the lizards would come up with something she can run with! Thanks to all ! :)

129 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:45:27am

re: #113 soccerdad

OT - FYI --

According to yahoo sports...the United states has no official language:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

We don't, do we?

130 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:45:58am

re: #113 soccerdad

OT - FYI --

According to yahoo sports...the United states has no official language:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

As I understand it, we don't. The vast majority of us speak English, so we have a default language, but it has never been designated as an official language.

Every now and again some politician brings up actually making English our official language and the lefty's get their panties in a bunch and it never goes anywhere.

131 Mars Needs Neocons  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:46:03am

OT
Heard about this on G4 this morning.
See the secret message hidden in Obama's speeches.

Stick it out, this is not just a normal rickroll. It is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

132 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:46:15am

This is really a great article, and I am finding many things that are quote worthy.

But this really caught my eye.

The problem is not that the photograph has been manipulated, but that we have been manipulated by the photograph. Photoshop is not the culprit. It is the intention to deceive.

I agree with that, and I expect many NYT readers would agree whole heartedly.

Yet those same readers wouldn't agree with "Guns don't kill people. People do." The same logic, yet liberals I know dismiss it outright.

133 Mars Needs Neocons  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:47:05am

Charles in the NYT? Rove you magnificent bastard.

Seriously, good article.

134 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:47:12am

re: #123 wolfie

Teachers have to read to the end of a term-paper, and students have to at least pretend to pay attention to a presentation.
Captive audience!

Yes, but I think most newspaper readers quit reading an article after one or two paragraphs. Or they only look at the pictures and read the captions.

135 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:49:28am

re: #117 karmic_inquisitor

Johnson's Razor.

That's based on a quote I read somewhere, I think Heinlein, one of the Lazarus Long quotes, but it may come from even earlier than that. It does seem derived from Occam's Razor though.

136 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:50:25am

The quote already has a name

Hanlon's razor is an adage which reads:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

But you may have known that.

I, however, will continue to attribute all quotes to Mark Twain. /silhouette's razor

137 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:50:29am

re: #124 Ward Cleaver

She's an idiot.

Rielle Hunter was at least smart enough to get herself pregnant by an extremely wealthy man.

/and don't tell me Edwards isn't the father

138 kynna  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:50:35am

This is a great article. Unfortunately I think visual impact often causes a reaction even as you suspect the origin. It happens so fast. Someone who cares about this will stop and think about it. The average consumer of news will accept what they see and form their opinions to fit the visual and vice versa.

139 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:51:15am

re: #136 Silhouette

Ah, thanks Silhouette.

140 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:51:37am

re: #128 wolfie

Glad to be of assistance!

141 JimmyTheClaw  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:52:19am

re: #55 wolfie

Only slightly OT- My daughter will have to do a senior project this year, i.e. a term paper along with a power point presentation/speech.
One of the subjects she is considering for her project is fauxtography.

I/she would appreciate any suggestions lizards might have re a specific angle/thesis. The paper is supposed to be only 15 to 20 type-written pages (double-spaced) and the presentation under 12 minutes, so you can see that "fauxtography" is WAY too broad a topic.
What she would want to do, I think, is examine one topic........not necessarily one picture!...... in some depth, and then set that in a more general context. (Kind of like the interview we just read.)

how about faked photography for propoganda from a genocidal regime

142 CIA Reject  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:52:30am

re: #134 Son of the Black Dog

Yes, but I think most newspaper readers quit reading an article after one or two paragraphs. Or they only look at the pictures and read the captions.

Which is why fauxtography is such an effective propaganda technique.

143 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:54:34am

re: #136 Silhouette

The quote already has a name


But you may have known that.

I, however, will continue to attribute all quotes to Mark Twain. /silhouette's razor

Mark Twain and Dorothy Parker.

144 mossley  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 11:34:38am

re: #116 wolfie

Good one. Really good one.


Glad to help!

145 Sully33  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 12:27:16pm

Charles in the New York Times....

Hmmmmmmmm.....

This is a serious blow to your credibility. I hope you recover from it.

146 Mosse  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 12:39:28pm

Charles, yes!, congratulations to this tribute to your importance and expertise and I add my voice to the "thank you's" for your devotion to the truth and for the opportunity for the Lizard Nation to have a voice!

THAT said, Morris did quite the weasel-ish job on "truth" as even possible in the later article and the footnotes! Gosh, everything is relative and in the eye of the beholder and what could be wrong with the LA Times using our enemy's photos as news, as you so correctly pointed out, Charles! Sheesh. Pure postmodern relativism. Everything is "interpretation," dontcha know... Nothing is "knowable" and "confabulation" is common! "Confabulation" is a medical term for people with brain damage from alcoholism (happened to a family member)! They substitute information because the synaptic linkage in the brain has been burned out by alcohol damage! Everybody doesn't run around "confabulating"! Christ.

Congratulations, anyway, Charles! You've changed the means of gaining information in this highly contested moment -- hear, hear, the Lizard King!

147 notutopia  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 12:47:02pm

Dear Charles,
Thank you for going the frustrating extra mile and NOT allowing your eyes to believe everything it sees!
And thank you from all of us who appreciate not being DECEIVED by fake/fraudulent media submissions of any kind. Whether it is words, photographs, illustrations, labels, or subliminal messaging.
It is time we demand as consumers a higher standard of practice from the media with stiff consequences attached for negligent violations that are not subsequently and adequately researched for authentication before submission to the public; violations for issues like DECEPTION ! Maybe if we stopped buying their products it would get their attention.

148 Charles  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 2:00:44pm

Thank you for the nice words, everyone. I know I have New York Times cooties all over me now, but they don't bite much.

I thought Errol Morris's article was very good, actually. This is the kind of stuff the New York Times should do more of.

149 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 3:07:02pm
150 Jim C.  Tue, Aug 12, 2008 10:10:51pm

Mega-kudos, Charles!

151 Bill Shears  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 1:53:23pm

Johnson's Razor: "You should never attribute to cleverness what can be easily explained by stupidity."

Errol Morris seems like an all-right guy. Good documentarian. Nice to be treated squarely by in the NY Times too! That must hit them where it hurts.

The first guy I skipped right over. Someone starts out saying "The short answer is: I don't know." why hang around for the long answer? I read some of it and, it would have been better skipped.


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