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Russia Violates Truce, Bombs and Loots City of Gori

Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 8:20:05 am PDT

The Russians are obviously not interested in a truce.

OUTSIDE GORI, Georgia (AP) — Russian troops and paramilitaries thrust deep into Georgia on Wednesday, rolling into the strategic city of Gori and violating the truce designed to end the six-day war that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape. Georgian officials said Gori was looted and bombed by the Russians, who denied the claim. An AP reporter later saw dozens of tanks and military vehicles leaving the city, roaring southeast.

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250 comments

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1 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:22:00am

I'm really torn up about this.

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.

2 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:22:36am
3 rasachema  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:22:37am

wow!

4 Split  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:22:48am

George is sending Condi to fix things.

5 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:13am

will poland, ukraine, luthuania get involved?

6 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:15am

Roaring Southeast? That's deeper into Georgian territory, not back into South Ossetia.

7 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:21am

Here's a report from the Beeb - not good at all ...

8 GreenDroll  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:30am

I thought Obama told them to behave......

9 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:39am

A Fox News reporter said he saw no sign of fighting or burning of buildings in Gori. However, he was leaving just as the 50 Russian APC's were arriving. What's happening now is unclear.

10 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:23:54am

So much for that Olympic ideal, eh, Barack?

11 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:24:03am

Georgia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Ethnic Cleansing.

Starting from 8 August 2008 to date, the Russian Federation has been engaged in carrying out the occupation of the Georgian territory. In this process the Russian side makes an active use of illegal bandit gangs and so-called North Caucasian volunteers present in Georgia’s conflict regions.

To our great regret, representatives of Abkhazia’s separatist authorities took advantage of the escalated situation in the Tskhinvali region and, in violation of all agreements and treaties signed up to this day and with the assistance of Russian ‘peacekeepers’, made an attack on Upper Abkhazia and invaded its entire territory. Just like in the 1990s, separatists, with the support of Russian troops, conducted a mass cleansing of the local population of ethnic Georgians.

SNIP

12 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:24:07am

paramilitaries
This is code for gangs of pyschopaths officially sanctioned to commit atrocities that ordinary soldiers will not.

13 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:24:08am

re: #6 lawhawk

there was a blurb earlier that russia was heading for tiblias 90 minutes out

14 FreeIowa  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:24:39am

I’m afraid the Georgian government is going to be a government in exile very soon.

15 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:02am

Russia is doing this to get the Georgians to fire at them so that they can march on Tiblisi to "punish aggression" further.

BTW - Bush just said he is sending Rice to France and then Georgia.

16 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:19am

Roaring SE? Not Good.

17 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:25am

Is not "looting", is "proactive peacekeeping". Peace-loving Russian peacekeepers do not loot. Nyet, never.

18 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:27am

[Link: russiangeorgianwar.blogspot.com...]
[Link: smr.gov.ge...]
[Link: stateminister.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.geoee.co.cc...]
[Link: stoprussia.org...]
RFE/RL slideshow with audio
[Link: georgiainfonews.blogspot.com...]

19 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:34am

From the Beeb report above:
"The US-based group Human Rights Watch said staff who were in South Ossetia on Tuesday had seen ethnic Georgian villages still burning from fires set by South Ossetian militias and witnessed looting by armed militia members.

"The remaining residents of these destroyed ethnic Georgian villages are facing desperate conditions, with no means of survival, no help, no protection, and nowhere to go," spokeswoman Tanya Lokshina said. "

Normal behaviour from the Russ Soviet soldiers, then ...

20 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:48am

re: #14 FreeIowa

I’m afraid the Georgian government is going to be a government in exile very soon.

* * *
Don't go wobbly on us in you believe in FREEdom, Iowa.

21 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:25:57am

re: #7 yma o hyd

Here's a report from the Beeb - not good at all ...

Violence flares in Georgian town

All by itself?

22 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:26:32am

Good thing they submitted to Obama's will.

23 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:26:53am

re: #1 Cognito

I'm really torn up about this.

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.

Why are you blaming the US, cognito? Last I checked, Georgia was on the European continent. At least blame NATO.

Reflexes, reflexes.

24 rorschach  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:26:54am
Russians....who denied the claim...


Georgia could really use Bagdad Bob about now.

25 GreenDroll  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:26:59am

Ukraine, at leas, is a nuclear power. I suspect several other of the provinces have a few bombs laying around as well. These are not your NK fission type bombs either, but thermonuclear devices with big yields.

26 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:26:59am

increasingly dire situation in the nation of Georgia, which was invaded last week by neighboring Russia.

The president will speak in the White House Rose Garden after a busy morning of briefings and a phone conversation with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, a close ally of the United States.

Watch FOX News Channel and FOXNews.com for live coverage of the president's remarks at 11:15 a.m. ET.

The administration also spent Wednesday morning trying to document whether Russia is violating the cease-fire it agreed to institute with the former Soviet Republic. FOX News confirmed that Russian tanks entered the city of Gori, just 40 miles from the Georgian capital of Tbilisi.

"We're monitoring and working to get concrete information," White House press secretary Dana Perino said.

In a fast-moving chain of events, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled a news conference and the White House scrubbed its morning briefing with reporters.

27 Saif al Kufr  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:02am

Apply Kosovo's model to South Ossetia?

[Link: counterterrorismblog.org...]

The Russo-Georgian War and the Balance of Power

[Link: www.stratfor.com...]

28 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:04am

re: #17 Occasional Reader

Is not "looting", is "proactive peacekeeping". Peace-loving Russian peacekeepers do not loot. Nyet, never.

* * *
C'mon, Russians looted even toilet bowls from Germany, to take back to the USSR.

29 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:18am

re: #21 Ben Hur

All by itself?

Must have something to do with bulldozers...

30 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:23am

re: #5 willowone

will poland, ukraine, luthuania get involved?

That's Lithuania.

31 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:25am

WHERE ARE THE EUROPEANS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

32 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:25am

re: #8 GreenDroll

I thought Obama told them to behave......

The Russians are now angry at the ill treatment that Virginia's Governor received after he congratulated Obama on bringing peace to the region via a press release issued from a Hawaiian golf course.

Putin sees a like minded individual in Obama.

33 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:37am

A strongly worded letter will clear this all up.

34 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:39am

pray for the peopel of georgia, and hope europe , helps their neighbors out. not holding my breath

35 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:43am

The TIMES (London) also reports looting ...

36 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:27:43am

Map.

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

It shows Russia's interference from 1989 until 2004.

37 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:13am

re: #28 alegrias

* * *
C'mon, Russians looted even toilet bowls from Germany, to take back to the USSR.

...as potato washing machines.

38 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:25am

re: #1 Cognito

I'm really torn up about this.

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.


True, though there's really not that much we could have done to prevent it.

39 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:33am

re: #33 Killgore Trout
didnt' condi just imply obama would do o.k> growling i can't help it. wonder what she's thinking

40 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:41am

re: #31 Ben Hur

WHERE ARE THE EUROPEANS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

AT THE BEACH, it's August and they have 60 days of vacation left.

41 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:44am
Saakashvili said the U.S. and West underestimated Russia's regional ambitions and warned that "America's reputation here, since (the) Cold War, is going to hell now."

"We have been warning them a large scale Russian invasion is coming," Saaskashvili said. "(The) State Department told us the Russians are not going to do that."

42 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:44am

re: #12 Peacekeeper

Good Lord...can you imagine how many people could be murdered...

43 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:46am

Russia is clearly demonstrating that it has no intentions of adhering to cease fire demands until it satisfies its strategic objectives. They're not going to stop until they've broken Georgia in half.

I had previously thought that the US airlift of Georgian troops from Iraq to Georgia was the most that the US could or would do, but the news of the humanitarian airlift improves on the US position since it helps bring US military forces into the region to counter Russian aggression. Expect the USAF to maintain a very tight ROE and that they probably wouldn't be able to fire on Russians unless fired upon first. It's a very dangerous situation for all involved.

However, I think that the timing does present opportunities elsewhere. Make Iran sweat. Make Russia look inwards. Pressure points.

44 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:28:55am
45 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:07am

re: #25 GreenDroll

Ukraine, at leas, is a nuclear power. I suspect several other of the provinces have a few bombs laying around as well. These are not your NK fission type bombs either, but thermonuclear devices with big yields.

Did they keep the nukes when the Wall collapsed?

46 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:13am

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

47 snowcrash  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:15am

Why didn't the Georgians hold the south end of the Roti tunnel and cut off at least the tank invasion? Now tanks are heading Southeast? What is in that area?

48 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:29am

Come on now. Looting is to Russians as swimming is to fish.

49 laZardo  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:32am

This game suddenly comes into mind...

50 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:44am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

Oh-yah that's definitely a prime concern.

/

51 Dirk Diggler  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:45am

Oh well. I didn't really want to live to be forty anyway.

52 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:48am

re: #31 Ben Hur

WHERE ARE THE EUROPEANS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

On holiday.

53 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:50am

re: #43 lawhawk
do you think russians will allow this? shesh i'm nervous, will this start war?

54 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:52am
Russian troops and paramilitaries thrust deep into Georgia on Wednesday, rolling into the strategic city of Gori and violating the truce designed to end the six-day war that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape.

Israel defeated three countries in six days & Russia still hasn't beaten Georgia?

55 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:29:59am

Bush announced (radio) he's sending the military to deliver humanitarian aid. That means our military will be flying into a war zone in Russia's back yard.

It's bigger move than sending Condi to France.


Still looking for a solid link.

56 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:13am

re: #43 lawhawk

Russia is clearly demonstrating that it has no intentions of adhering to cease fire demands until it satisfies its strategic objectives. They're not going to stop until they've broken Georgia in half.


Gosh.
Its almost as if they are saying one thing, yet doing another.

57 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:14am

Looting is a break down in military discipline. (looting usually has a corollary activity rape).

If the Russian troops are up to that shit, their asses are ripe for kicking.

58 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:24am

I see the Russians have something in common with the "palestinians."

59 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:29am

In Soviet Union Parade watches you.

60 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:34am

re: #23 Irene NYC

Why are you blaming the US, cognito? Last I checked, Georgia was on the European continent. At least blame NATO.

Reflexes, reflexes.

Much as I wish it were otherwise, it's unavoidable: This is a tremendous blow to American credibility, militarily and politically. Georgia is one of our closest allies in the region, and Russia's actions there have sharply showed just how much our influence has declined.

We can't do squat to Russia.

We've got to face it to fix it: This sucks.

61 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:44am

re: #49 laZardo well that sure calmed me down

62 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:46am

re: #40 alegrias

AT THE BEACH, it's August and they have 60 days of vacation left.

Posts like that make me wish LGF had a "million upding" feature!

63 guftafs  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:49am

"Russia Violates Truce, Bombs and Loots City of Gori"

Don't see anyone stopping them.

64 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:50am

re: #41 Peacekeeper

* * *
Condi Rice was too busy bringing middle east PEACE to nobody.

65 laZardo  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:54am

re: #49 laZardo

Someone fucked with the audio, PIMF this version.

66 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:30:55am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

Jammie, you forgot your sarc tag.
;)

67 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:08am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

Bribe those who have no principals with oil. Some guy named Saddam used to do that I think?

68 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:10am

tic toc

69 Tigger2005  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:10am

re: #51 Dirk Diggler

Oh well. I didn't really want to live to be forty anyway.

Geez. I'm 42 and in the best shape of my life.

I hate the Russians.

70 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:12am

re: #28 alegrias

* * *
C'mon, Russians looted even toilet bowls from Germany, to take back to the USSR.

Oppressed toilet bowls were liberated, not looted, comrade.

71 laZardo  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:16am

re: #61 willowone

Sorry, corrected with #65.

72 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:33am

re: #18 MandyManners

[Link: russiangeorgianwar.blogspot.com...]
[Link: smr.gov.ge...]
[Link: stateminister.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.geoee.co.cc...]
[Link: stoprussia.org...]
RFE/RL slideshow with audio
[Link: georgiainfonews.blogspot.com...]

Thank you for your timely updates Mandy.

73 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:41am

re: #1 Cognito

I'm really torn up about this.

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.

Exactly how is it an embarrassment to the US? Yes, Georgia is an ally, but exactly how were we supposed to station troops there over the objections of the EU? They didn't want Georgia in NATO or the EU nor did they want American troop stationed there because they didn't want to antagonize the Russians.

Well it looks like the Russians found a reason to be antagonized anyway.

It is Europe that should be embarrassed - when have they recently stood fast in the face of danger to help a fledgling democracy? When have they ever?

Fact is that the US and the EU no longer share a common value system.

74 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:31:48am

re: #57 jcm

Looting is a break down in military discipline. (looting usually has a corollary activity rape).

Unless the looting (and rape) are part of the Russian Army's SOP, as it was during WWII.

75 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:05am

re: #60 Cognito

a tremendous blow to American credibility, militarily and politically.

I agree with you completely. This is a direct challenge to America. It's Putin-the KGB Thug and Murderer turning to America and saying 'do me something'.

76 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:11am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

Are you kidding? This IS the world image that Russia wants - the Russian Bear that has made people cringe for well over 100 years. (The only true differences between Tsarist Russia and the Soviets were the name of the Tsar and the membership of the nobility.) It is OUR world image that we need to worry about. And that is the one the Russians want to destroy.

77 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:19am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

Like they give a shit.

78 lefty201  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:33am

the Russians are going to get away with this. The united states cannot stop them. Europe is so heavily infested with political weenies they have no choice but to comply.

Russian/Chinese eastern Asian political alliance is coming.

hope you speak Chinese

79 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:35am

re: #69 Tigger2005

Geez. I'm 42 and in the best shape of my life.

I hate the Russians.

Russians are fine, a bunch in my church....
It the mutherfuckingcommiebastards I hate.

80 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:37am
81 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:38am

re: #47 snowcrash

Why didn't the Georgians hold the south end of the Roti tunnel and cut off at least the tank invasion? Now tanks are heading Southeast? What is in that area?

TBLISI.

82 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:44am

re: #73 karmic_inquisitor

I'd love to agree. I really would.

83 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:46am

re: #53 willowone

The Russians already started a war. They're expecting everyone to sit back or to contain the fight to Georgia. Russia doesn't think much of NATO or Europe doing anything. Disabusing them of that thinking is crucial to regional stability of the sort that provides fertile ground for democracies. Russia doesn't like democracies on its borders since they're far more likely to look westward than towards Russia.

84 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:53am

re: #57 jcm

Looting is a break down in military discipline. (looting usually has a corollary activity rape).


Seriously, jcm, the russkies play by different rules. Looting is part of their military arsenal - terrorize the local population, take away strategic supplies, etc.

85 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:32:53am

re: #65 laZardo has Clancy already written in book form, ? look interesting

86 Tigger2005  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:11am

re: #76 galloping granny

Are you kidding? This IS the world image that Russia wants - the Russian Bear that has made people cringe for well over 100 years. (The only true differences between Tsarist Russia and the Soviets were the name of the Tsar and the membership of the nobility.) It is OUR world image that we need to worry about. And that is the one the Russians want to destroy.

I jammie just forgot the /sarc tag.

87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:13am

Paramilitaries? Scum Bullyboys who lack the discipline to be real armed forces but are willing to do what ever the Boss tells them too.

/spit

88 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:17am

This is a real life Mars Attacks:

"We come in peace!" BLAM! BLAM! ZAP! ZOK!

Why do we believe them again?

89 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:18am

re: #60 Cognito

Much as I wish it were otherwise, it's unavoidable: This is a tremendous blow to American credibility, militarily and politically. Georgia is one of our closest allies in the region, and Russia's actions there have sharply showed just how much our influence has declined.

We can't do squat to Russia.

We've got to face it to fix it: This sucks.

Thanks for the gutless defeatist report. Are you one of Obama's 301 "foreign policy experts"?

90 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:36am

Just like the Dems suffer frfom 'Bush Derangement Syndrome", I think that I am going that way on Obama.
Whether we agree or not, the World seems to be confident that Barack Hussein will be the next president. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that, that prospect emboldened Putin?

91 FreeIowa  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:41am

re: #20 alegrias

* * *
Don't go wobbly on us in you believe in FREEdom, Iowa.

I don't know about being wobbly, but all evidence points to Russia taking them out and either putting in a puppet government or simply absorbing Georgia back into the county. There is nothing the U.S. can do about it and Europe needs Russia's oil so they won't do anything. The Cold War is back.

92 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:41am

re: #60 Cognito

Much as I wish it were otherwise, it's unavoidable: This is a tremendous blow to American credibility, militarily and politically. Georgia is one of our closest allies in the region, and Russia's actions there have sharply showed just how much our influence has declined.

We can't do squat to Russia.

We've got to face it to fix it: This sucks.

I couldn't agree with you more Cognito. Though I think Bush's current plan is just this side of a brilliant way out of the creek.

93 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:43am

re: #83 lawhawk

The Russians already started a war. They're expecting everyone to sit back or to contain the fight to Georgia. Russia doesn't think much of NATO or Europe doing anything. Disabusing them of that thinking is crucial to regional stability of the sort that provides fertile ground for democracies. Russia doesn't like democracies on its borders since they're far more likely to look westward than towards Russia.

Suppose the gave a war and nobody came?

When the invitation are out and the Russians are gobbling up all the party goodies.

94 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:45am

re: #62 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Posts like that make me wish LGF had a "million upding" feature!

* * *
I'm "stay-cationing" until further notice--hunkering down, America~God bless & keep us & pass the ammunition.

95 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:33:49am

re: #25 GreenDroll

Ukraine, at leas, is a nuclear power. I suspect several other of the provinces have a few bombs laying around as well. These are not your NK fission type bombs either, but thermonuclear devices with big yields.

You have a source for this? The only declared nuclear power in that region is Russia. Officially, the nukes were consolidated in Russia after the Warsaw Pact broke up.

96 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:00am

re: #60 Cognito

It would be nice to have one thread, just one thread where you don't come in and try to discredit the U.S.A. or apologize for some stinking Socialist.

Especially one that involves adults with thousands of thermonuclear weapons.

97 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:19am

re: #60 Cognito

We can't do squat to Russia.

We've got to face it to fix it: This sucks.

We have a free hand if we didn't care about the impact on Europe.

We'd have a free hand in Iran if we didn't care about Europe.

Time to stop caring about Europe. It isn't like they'd punish us economically - they have proven to be whores who will do business with anyone.

98 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:28am

re: #72 jorline

Thank you for your timely updates Mandy.

I got the link to the Georgian Foreign Ministry from a Lizard yesterday, and those links I posted are on that site.

99 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:28am

Maybe Israel should take care of those nukes while Russia and the media are busy.

100 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:30am

re: #78 lefty201

the Russians are going to get away with this. The united states cannot stop them. Europe and the U.S. is are so heavily infested with political weenies they have no choice but to comply.

Russian/Chinese eastern Asian political alliance is coming.

hope you speak Chinese

McCarthey was right.

101 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:30am

Read this.

Puts things in perspective.

Painful but straightforward.

102 jemima  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:35am

If America and Americans have anything to be embarrassed about it's that the Democrats and leftists more than allowed, insisted and did everything possible, to cut the legs out from under our military and our executive branch. Now we are stretched thin and don't have the resources to take up another--righteous--effort for a democratic friend. The Democrats have bellyached for decades about the Republicans being war-mongers. Okay, you peaceloving lefties, this is what we have. The whole-sale premeditated attempt to crush a democracy.

103 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:43am

re: #89 Kenneth

I didn't read his post as defeatist actually. The situation does suck, and Putin is telling the whole free world to screw themselves.

104 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:43am

re: #81 MandyManners

TBLISI.

and just past Tbilisi, the pipeline, and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.

105 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:48am

This is the Russians stabbing NATO in the face. With BMD we are taking away one of their bully sticks, they are demonstrating that they have others.

106 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:34:59am

re: #91 FreeIowa

I don't know about being wobbly, but all evidence points to Russia taking them out and either putting in a puppet government or simply absorbing Georgia back into the county. There is nothing the U.S. can do about it and Europe needs Russia's oil so they won't do anything. The Cold War is back.

Actually the Cold War never left...

107 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:35:13am

re: #83 lawhawk
agree and agree, have any ideas what can be done to cut them short from their land grab. and control of all the resources?

108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:35:23am

re: #46 JammieWearingFool

How will Russia ever repair their world image?

To them, this is how they repair their world image.

109 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:35:27am

re: #94 alegrias

* * *
I'm "stay-cationing" until further notice--hunkering down, America~God bless & keep us & pass the ammunition.

To pass up the beaches of Spain for our sake? I salute you, sir!

110 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:35:46am

re: #66 Irene NYC

Jammie, you forgot your sarc tag.
;)

Didn't feel it was necessary. Figured everyone knows most of my comments are heavily larded with sarcasm.

111 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:35:49am

One other thing - we can't get to Georgia to help because Turkey would never let us through. Just as Turkey wouldn't let us through to Northern Iraq in the invasion.

Turkey is part of NATO.

Good thing we have that NATO alliance, eh?

112 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:04am

I think President Bush just checkmated the Russkies with his land,sea, air humanitarian mission.

113 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:06am

re: #104 galloping granny

and just past Tbilisi, the pipeline, and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.



382.78 Miles between Tbilisi and Mosul - [Link: www.mapcrow.info...]

114 christheprofessor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:16am

re: #90 opnion

Just like the Dems suffer frfom 'Bush Derangement Syndrome", I think that I am going that way on Obama.
Whether we agree or not, the World seems to be confident that Barack Hussein will be the next president. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that, that prospect emboldened Putin?

I think the entire situation hurts Obama and helps McCain.

I'd like to think that some of the tofu-brained moonbats who've been supporting Obama realize now that the world is still a dangerous place, and we need an adult in the White House.

115 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:16am

re: #89 Kenneth

Thanks for the gutless defeatist report. Are you one of Obama's 301 "foreign policy experts"?

Defeatist? I'd LOVE to report we've waved off the Russians, and restored order for our allies. Our strategic allies, I'll note.

Take a peek at reality, man. I'm not imagining things suck. They just do.

116 filetandrelease  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:19am

Our military is going to be bringing in humanitarian aid. The heat just got turned up a notch providing fodder for major escalation. Scary stuff.

If the proverbial shit hits the fan, will NATO back us up? I am under the opinion that NATO would make short work of Russia. Keeping nukes off the table, I pray.

117 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:21am

re: #106 CIA Reject

Actually the Cold War never left...

He's always been there, with quality food at competitive prices... wait, that's Bob's Big Boy.

118 laZardo  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:49am

re: #85 willowone

The novelization will be written by someone else. The game company that makes it has a Tom Clancy brand, I suspect it's more of a Shelby-like "blessing" given by Clancy to historically "technical" games like these.

119 Spider Mensch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:50am

my comment from the dead thread...

imo, Bush just put the russian balls in a vice. russians yesterday said they would observe a cease fire, according to reports they haven't. Bush is forcing them to a cease fire. the "humanitarian aid" angle is good. i think the russians back down, million reasons why they wouldn't, but I think the biggest why they will back down is they are quickly looking like the assholes they are on this one, they take the kick in the teeth, and lick their wounds for the next time.

120 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:55am

re: #80 ploome hineni

yep

121 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:56am

Al-Jazeera on how it's all our fault.

The US has had stern words for Russia over its military intervention in Georgia to back South Ossietian separatists, but many analysts say that the Bush administration must share the blame for the crisis.

Washington has formed a close bond with the government of Mikheil Saakashvili since he came to power in the 2003 'Rose Revolution,' offering military and economic aid and encouraging Georgia to join Nato.

Jon Sawyer, the director for the Pulitzer Centre for Crisis Reporting, said US politicians had encouraged their Georgian counterparts to think they had the backing of the US when Tbilisi decided to launch its attack on South Ossetia last week.

"The US has for several years now mishandled the situation in Georgia," he told Al Jazeera.

"The way that Mikheil Saakashvili has approached this [has been by] thinking that he could be an extension of the west, a partner of the United States."

"In many ways we have given him cause for thinking that, with the many visits to the United States, the talk of Georgia as a beacon for democracy."

Charles Kupchan of the Council on Foreign Relations, agrees that US encouragement may have made Saakashvili "miscalculate" and send Georgian troops into South Ossetia.

"I think in many respects Saakashvili got too close to the United States and the United States got too close to Saakashvili," Kupchan told the Reuters news agency.

"It made him overreach, it made him feel at the end of the day that the West would come to his assistance if he got into trouble."

SNIP

122 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:36:59am

re: #101 Cognito

Read this.
Puts things in perspective. Painful but straightforward.

No. The CS Monitor is your typical pacifist, liberal, tree-hugging wimps. The article doesn't tell me anything except their projections on what they feel about world affairs.

Stop wimping out on us.

123 SFGoth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:05am

Years ago I said we should issue a statement to the effect that the U.S. does not care who does what to France. It's now time to tell Western Europe - you guys better start doing some of the heavy lifting in Iraq and Afghanistan, or you'll be doing it in Siberia because we're not going to sacrifice for you anymore.

124 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:29am

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

One other thing - we can't get to Georgia to help because Turkey would never let us through. Just as Turkey wouldn't let us through to Northern Iraq in the invasion.

Turkey is part of NATO.

Good thing we have that NATO alliance, eh?

Turkey has pretty much stated they are staying out of it other than lending verbal and moral support to the Georgians. They have alliances and trade pacts to think of. This boils down to which route a new Natural gas pipeline will take, through Georgia, or through Russia.

125 SFGoth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:43am

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

One other thing - we can't get to Georgia to help because Turkey would never let us through. Just as Turkey wouldn't let us through to Northern Iraq in the invasion.

Turkey is part of NATO.

Good thing we have that NATO alliance, eh?

Bingo!

126 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:47am

re: #96 Sol Roth

It would be nice to have one thread, just one thread where you don't come in and try to discredit the U.S.A. or apologize for some stinking Socialist.

Especially one that involves adults with thousands of thermonuclear weapons.

What the heck are you talking about?

1) I NEVER discredit America. So screw that.

2) I NEVER apologize for any Socialist, and I defy you to cite even a single example. So screw that as well.

Don't get it twisted.

127 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:48am

re: #96 Sol Roth

It would be nice to have one thread, just one thread where you don't come in and try to discredit the U.S.A. or apologize for some stinking Socialist.

Especially one that involves adults with thousands of thermonuclear weapons.

Cognito is not trying to discredit the USA over this. He is telling the hard cold truth about this situation.

128 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:51am

re: #54 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Israel defeated three countries in six days & Russia still hasn't beaten Georgia?

G-d is more powerful than Stan.

129 ruexperienced  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:55am

My British friends keep harping on about how if we hadn't gone into Iraq, we'd be able to face the Russians down in this crisis.

There is simply ZERO chance the US would go head to head with the Russians over Georgia and yet another example of why the British seem so out of touch with reality these days.

Fine soldiers mind you, but spineless leadership (or lack thereof)...

We may have provided *WINK WINK* humanitarian aid to the Georgians and helped them in clandestine ways (along with the Israelis), but we're not going do it in a direct confrontation to be sure.

One thing in closing, yes the Russians are basically steamrolling Georgia, in very conventional warfare type fashion.

Problem is for the Russians (and as the US so painfully learned in Iraq in the aftermath of Saddam's defeat), insurgencies are the bane of the conventional warfare existence.

They may be doing what they want now, but there will be an insurgency in the offing that will make Russia pay a painful price for their misdeeds here.

This is a also just a grab for the pipelines and NOTHING to do with the rights of "South Ossetians".

A large portion of the Euro fuel supply in the hands of the Russians will cause some nervousness in Brussels to be sure.

Perhaps they will construct a strongly worded document to express their dismay !

130 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:37:59am

re: #80 ploome hineni

AMerica has lost its self confidence

That is frightening-if America loses it's moral centre and self-confidence, the whole free world is endangered.

131 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:01am
132 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:24am

re: #114 christheprofessor

I think the entire situation hurts Obama and helps McCain.

I'd like to think that some of the tofu-brained moonbats who've been supporting Obama realize now that the world is still a dangerous place, and we need an adult in the White House.

Obama will bring our deaths...and the left will love him for it.

133 Karagush  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:26am

re: #57 jcm

Looting is a break down in military discipline. (looting usually has a corollary activity rape).

If the Russian troops are up to that shit, their asses are ripe for kicking.

Yes russian troops gernerall rape the shit out of anything that moves wherever they loot. I have a dear friend whose whole family is georgian. Her mom is still there. I am sure she is beside herself right now. I have heard much of how things really are with Russia to make me feel sick tomy stomach for these people. I wish there was something that could be done.

134 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:31am

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To them, this is how they repair their world image.

Exactly.

135 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:56am

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

One other thing - we can't get to Georgia to help because Turkey would never let us through. Just as Turkey wouldn't let us through to Northern Iraq in the invasion.

Turkey is part of NATO.

Good thing we have that NATO alliance, eh?

Would be good to see a link on them refusing NATO, humanitarian basing from Turkey.

136 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:38:58am

re: #102 jemima

Good post.

137 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:01am
138 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:16am

re: #103 WriterMom

But the US is NOT without options and resources. Over the past 8 years we've heard the same crap from these jerks:

Oh no, the fierce Afghan winter...
Oh no, the "Arab street" will rise up
Oh no, the fearsome Iraq Special Republican Guards
Oh no, Fallujah will be America's Stalingrad
Oh no, Iraq is lost!

...and on and on they go. They see America's defeat, because in their heart of hearts that is what they want. But they have been wrong every time.

139 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:20am

re: #114 christheprofessor
see i don't agree, i think His specific followers would love to see us burn. they think They however will be saved from it personally.

140 bakishamil  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:22am

They should be in North Ossetia and not South Ossetia...South Ossetia is Georgia territory.

re: #6 lawhawk

re: #6 lawhawk

Roaring Southeast? That's deeper into Georgian territory, not back into South Ossetia.

141 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:22am

re: #60 Cognito
YOU are wrong about the US "can't do squat".
So wrong I have no idea of where to start with you.
So I won't bother, except to advise you to review some of the comments made on the prior thread.
If Russia does indeed fire on US Airforce Cargo planes delivering humanitarian aid and medical aid to Georgia, or tries to block our Navy from the port of Poti, it'll be lights out for Russia in Georgia.

142 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:39am

re: #116 filetandrelease

Our military is going to be bringing in humanitarian aid. The heat
just got turned up a notch providing fodder for major escalation. Scary
stuff.

If the proverbial shit hits the fan, will NATO back us
up? I am under the opinion that NATO would make short work of Russia.
Keeping nukes off the table, I pray.

If a war breaks out between US & Russian in Georgia, no, NATO will not back us up. NATO treaty provides for mutual defense against agression for member nations that have been attacked. Georgia isn't in NATO & we haven't been attacked by Russia in our own country.

143 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:40am

The outcome will be more military spending in Europe, more nuclear energy in Europe, and long term Russia is playing poor strategy. They don't want to awaken what they are prodding, historically it's never worked out well for them.

144 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:50am

re: #114 christheprofessor

I think the entire situation hurts Obama and helps McCain.

I'd like to think that some of the tofu-brained moonbats who've been supporting Obama realize now that the world is still a dangerous place, and we need an adult in the White House.

Sure. That is why Susan Rice is screaming about McCain "shooting from the hip" and "making the situation worse."

aka having a tantrum 'cause her guy got there lastest with the leastest.

145 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:39:52am

re: #104 galloping granny

and just past Tbilisi, the pipeline, and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.

And, Tabriz.

146 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:00am

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

No. The CS Monitor is your typical pacifist, liberal, tree-hugging wimps. The article doesn't tell me anything except their projections on what they feel about world affairs.

Stop wimping out on us.

I'm not wimping out, brother.

I'm saying we need to STOP wimping out.

147 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:07am
148 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:08am

re: #90 opnion

Just like the Dems suffer frfom 'Bush Derangement Syndrome", I think that I am going that way on Obama.
Whether we agree or not, the World seems to be confident that Barack Hussein will be the next president. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that, that prospect emboldened Putin?

There are a whole host of reasons that Puttie boy felt embolden. First of all and most important, he is oil rich and also knows that we are not going to go to war with Soviet Russia over Georgia. Whether we like it or not Georgia is in Soviet Russia's Sphere of Influence. Also it should remembered and pointed out to the Democrats who have tried to the best of their abilities to pull the rug out from under the duly elected President of the United States of America, that you weaken the President and thus this country at your own risk. You defeatist bastard wanted a weak President, well you SOB's got it. I hope your happy!

149 Sunlight  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:28am

re: #1 Cognito

I'm really torn up about this.

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.

That is a profoundly silly euro lefty thing to say... the embarrassment is to be found in the eyes with K-G-B in them. And you for not supporting attempts to get people out from under thugs. The nuances of thuggery... nyet.

150 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:28am

re: #89 Kenneth

The US has limited options, but let's be clear here - no matter how much the US provided military training and equipment to the Georgians, the Russians could overwhelm them with sheer numbers.

That's precisely what they've done. This isn't like the US taking on the Russians directly. The Russians exploited the situation in South Ossetia to expand their power at the expense of one of our allies. It hits our prestige and influence in the region, but there are ways to restore the situation and to make Russia think twice.

One - grant membership to the Ukraine. Ukraine tells Russia to pound sand and vacate their base in Sevastopol.

Grant membership to Georgia. Use that as a means to demand Russia's exit and return status quo ante or else face NATO firepower.

It ups the stakes, but does so in a way that gives Russia an out before shooting starts between NATO/US forces and the Russians.

151 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:40:40am

re: #138 Kenneth

See Jemima's post ^ ^ upthread.

I agree with you about the fierce Afghan winter, etc...that's a lot of crap. I've pointed out my concerns-America needs moral confidence.

152 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:14am

Bush has made a good move to make the military the vector for relief.

The Russians will not attack us.

Putin is not a nihilist.

153 laZardo  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:16am

And on this cliffhanger, I must get to sleep. Hopefully I can wake up tomorrow morning to another rainy day and not a nuclear winter.

/world war 4, sticks and stones, etc...

154 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:26am

re: #109 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

To pass up the beaches of Spain for our sake? I salute you, sir!

* * *
Thank you.
Si Se Puede~ I've Got Georgia on My Mind!

Putin saw 200,000 dopey Germans in Berlin
and decided he could be totalitarian again--Back in the USSR!
He knew how lucky he was.

Now it's 1968, and it's NOT GREAT
The Russians Are Coming
The Russians Are Coming

No Time to Go Wobbly
I'll vote for the "Attack" Former Fighter Pilot,
Thank yew very much.

155 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:27am

re: #137 cutestguy

And Turkey is right in the path. Will the Turks buckle under or will they fight like they did when they were ruled by the Ottomans?

So is Armenia.

156 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:29am
157 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:42am

re: #104 galloping granny

and just past Tbilisi, the pipeline, and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.

Well, except the way to Mosul passes through either Turkey or Armenia, then through Kurdish Iraq, and over several mountain ranges and rivers along the way.

Take a deep breath and relax: the Russians are not on their way to Mosul. Georgia may prove yet to be too big a bite.

158 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:51am

re: #147 ploome hineni

have they blamed Israel yet?

That's next.

159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:41:53am

re: #121 MandyManners

Al-Jazeera on how it's all our fault.

Kragaristan issues a formal diplomatic response to Al-Jazeera:

"Eat a bag of dicks"

That is all.

160 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:06am

Hello, you've reached the US State Department. To hear this message in English press 1 NOW
BEEP
For quality control purposes this call may be monitored and recorded.
If you know your party's extension, you may enter it at any time. For Secretary of State Condileeza Rice press one now (BEEP)
The person you have selected, Condileeza Rice, is not available. Would you like to leave a voice mail? Press one n(BEEP)
One moment please.
Tall and tanned and young and lovely
the girl from Ipanema goes walking
and when she passes
each man she passes
goes Aaah!

August is International Water purity month! To find out more go to Http:/www.pure water@UN.org

How - can he tell her he loves her
He - would just give his heart gladly

But each day when she walks to the sea
She looks straight ahead not at he

Tall and tanned and young and lovely
the girl from Ipanema goes walking
and when she passes

Hi this is Condi! Leave me a message and a callback number at the tone! (BEEP)

161 GGMac  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:15am

Brought this up yesterday, on the VDH thread:

There's much more to Pootie's agenda regarding Georgia than is at first apparent.

Russia has been leasing port facilities from Ukraine, at Sevastopol, on the Black Sea. It is a Russian Navy facility:
[[Link: en.rian.ru...]

5/21/08: "Ukraine demands closure of Russian base in Crimea in 2017."
[[Link: en.rian.ru...]

5/24/08: "Russia and Ukraine Lock Horns Over Naval Base"
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

and 4/01/08, Russia news.Net: "Russia warns Ukraine against NATO Membership"
[www.russianews.net/story/343709]

This is KGB Pootie at work, and one could surmise his agenda for not-so-long-term is Georgia, then Ukraine (with then ownership of the base at Sevastopol), then Moldova, Romania, and Bulgaria - BINGO - all of them back in his Soviet nest, with him having control of the oil pipeline, and of the Black Sea.

Pootie plans to be singing "Happy Days Are Here Again", while our Congress, led by Pelosi, bicker over wind, shale, drilling, etc.

And Pootie's day will be made even more glorious if he has Hishusseinness to "contend" with rather than "Pootie has KGB eyes" McCain.

Georgia is merely Pootie's appetizer - Ukraine will be the first plate of the main course.

This is DEEP ****

162 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:25am

A very interesting quote:
"The Europeans may seem divided, but behind the bland statements calling on both sides to stop the recent fighting something significant has happened. Six European leaders, five of them from the former Soviet bloc, chose to stand side by side with Mr Saakashvili yesterday as he struggled to remain in power. The events in the Caucasus will only serve to harden opinion against Russia at Nato and in the EU.

The mini-war in Georgia may have surprised some Europeans, but it was expected weeks ago by British Intelligence. Thanks to the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, the ex-KGB officer who was poisoned in London by suspected Russian agents nearly two years ago, Britain has completely reassessed its relationship with Moscow. MI5, which reports that Russian agents in Britain are now back at Cold War levels, regards Russia as the third most serious threat to British security after terrorism and nuclear proliferation. Attempts to rehabilitate relations have faltered and the recent treatment of BP by its partners and the Russian authorities has only reinforced the view that Russia cannot be trusted. "
Its in the middle of this excellent analysis ...

163 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:35am
164 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:35am

HEY CHARLES - how's about a post on Bush's speech and the ramifications thereof?
Just suggesting here!

165 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:36am

re: #130 WriterMom

That is frightening-if America loses it's moral centre and self-confidence, the whole free world is endangered. Lost

Fixed.

166 christheprofessor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:44am

re: #132 Oh no...Sand People!

Obama will bring our deaths...and the left will love him for it.

If he gets elected -- I think his prospects are dimming each day. But, the election is a long way off still, and things change...

167 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:45am

And by the way, there is something very fishy going on in the last Discovery Institute thread. We seem to have picked up some relentless apologists for Russia:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

168 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:49am

re: #149 Sunlight

That is a profoundly silly euro lefty thing to say... the embarrassment is to be found in the eyes with K-G-B in them. And you for not supporting attempts to get people out from under thugs. The nuances of thuggery... nyet.

This is exactly the head-in-the-sand stance I'm addressing.

What "attempts to get people out from under thugs" are you referring to, exactly?

There are none.

169 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:52am

re: #95 Occasional Reader

Ukraine no longer possesses nuclear weapons as of 1996. It was at that time that the former republics ceded the weapons to Russia.

170 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:42:58am

re: #110 JammieWearingFool

Didn't feel it was necessary. Figured everyone knows most of my comments are heavily larded with sarcasm.

I got it.

171 Benthoven  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:43:03am

Surely, Obama, Citizen of the World! will fly right over there, wave his magic scepter, and bring all this to a peaceful conclusion before the weekend. I mean, as a messiah and all, he does have the Judgement to Lead, right?

172 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:43:24am

re: #152 godfrey

Bush has made a good move to make the military the vector for relief.

The Russians will not attack us.

Putin is not a nihilist.

Of course Russia won't attack us.

They don't have to.

They'll bleed us remotely.

173 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:43:27am

re: #138 Kenneth

But the US is NOT without options and resources.

Yeah, I'm getting a little annoyed by the talk that conflates "recognition of limitations with this particular situatión" with "we are powerless against the fierce, reinvigorated Russian bear." Nonsense. The US military completely outmatches the Russian military is every single category. It ain't even close.

174 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:43:27am

re: #135 Sol Roth

Turkey has sent a warship to the Georgian seaport for a "visit" and has issued a statement in support of Georgia. The Turks do not want a resurgent Russia on their doorstep.

175 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:43:32am

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kragaristan issues a formal diplomatic response to Al-Jazeera:

"Eat a bag of dicks"

That is all.

*spew*

176 akak  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:07am

If Georgian's want to end this they can.

When thousands after thousands attempt to destroy all Russian military, the commies will fall like their rusted pieces of crap that they are.

Never submit.

177 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:08am

re: #104 galloping granny

and just past Tbilisi, the pipeline, and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.

* * *
Turkey must stand with us and with our Kurdish allies in Northern Iraq.

Iraq must stand with us, their new BEST FRIENDS, against their former Baathist supporter, the USSR.

Maliki/Zubari best get with the program.

178 ducktrapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:14am

May I just say, "Screw Putin. F*ck Russia and to hell with everyone making excuses for the bastards?" Oh I just did. Thanks.

179 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:20am

re: #23 Irene NYC

Why are you blaming the US, Last I checked, Georgia was on the European continent. At least blame NATO.

I am just a blogger.
and I saw it coming.
Russia aggressively claimed land/ice in the arctic for drilling,
now they want the pipelines back.

Black Gold,
Texas T.

Russian oily caviar.

180 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:25am

re: #160 Peacekeeper

OY VEY + LOL to the max.

181 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:44:38am

re: #161 GGMac
This is KGB Pootie at work, and one could surmise his agenda for not-so-long-term is Georgia, then Ukraine (with then ownership of the base at Sevastopol), then Moldova, Romania, and Bulgaria - BINGO - all of them back in his Soviet nest, with him having control of the oil pipeline, and of the Black Sea
thats' what i see. and i'm sure our leaders.

182 Peacekeeper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:07am

re: #167 Charles

Charlse there are people in Moscow reading your blog and taking notes. They have acknowledged your influence by deigning to post excuses.

183 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:20am

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They must have got them at them at the Olympics. I hear cuisine of that nature is all the rage.

184 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:25am

re: #104 galloping granny

and after that a few hundred miles straight shot to Mosul.

The Russians are not gearing up to invade Iraq, fer chrissake. (And even if they did, they'd better plan on walking back home.)

Let's calm down, people.

185 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:37am

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

WASHINGTON — President Bush has directed the U.S. military to lead a humanitarian mission to help displaced citizens of Georgia, who've been forced out of their homes following a Russian invasion last week in the northern portion of the country.

The president said U.S.-17 aircraft with humanitarian supplies are already on its way and U.S. aircraft and naval forces will deliver humanitarian and medical supplies

"The mission will be vigorous and ongoing," Bush said from the White House Rose Garden with Defense Secretary Bob Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice by his side.

"We expect Russia to honor its commitment to let in all forms of humanitarian assistance. We expect Russia to insure that all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, airports, roads and airspace, remain open for the delivery of humanitarian assistance and for civilian transit," Bush said.

Bush said he is also sending Rice to Tbilisi, Georgia, to "personally convey American's unwavering support for the government of Georgia," after the country was invaded last week by neighboring Russia. Rice will travel beforehand to France to meet with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

186 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:42am

re: #124 Thanos

They have alliances and trade pacts to think of.

Cowardly chicken-shits, just like the rest.
Now let's see some massive "humanitarian aid" from the Ukraine and Poland.

187 Sunlight  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:45am

re: #99 faraway

Maybe Israel should take care of those nukes while Russia and the media are busy.

Russia may be creating a diversion for Iran to finish up... that an not being able to hold themselves in check while eastern europe and Israel secure their own independent energy supply without Russia being able to blackmail them with control of it or at least take a kickback on it.

188 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:45:50am

re: #148 Nevergiveup

There are a whole host of reasons that Puttie boy felt embolden. First of all and most important, he is oil rich and also knows that we are not going to go to war with Soviet Russia over Georgia. Whether we like it or not Georgia is in Soviet Russia's Sphere of Influence. Also it should remembered and pointed out to the Democrats who have tried to the best of their abilities to pull the rug out from under the duly elected President of the United States of America, that you weaken the President and thus this country at your own risk. You defeatist bastard wanted a weak President, well you SOB's got it. I hope your happy!

I get where your coming from, but I have to believe that Putin looked at the Obama phenom & figured that the U.S has taken a really strange turn. Maybe I just really, really loathe BHO.

189 christheprofessor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:46:52am

re: #139 willowone

see i don't agree, i think His specific followers would love to see us burn. they think They however will be saved from it personally.

Sure, that's what his Chomsky-esque followers believe, but they aren't enough to get him elected. He needs centrist voters, and they see the world much more clearly than the kool-aid drinkers.

Obama would have been better served had Russia waited until after the election. Russia's invasion of Afghanistan screwed Carter, given his impotent response (well, that and the hostages)...

190 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:46:58am

re: #171 Benthoven

Surely, Obama, Citizen of the World! will fly right over there, wave his magic scepter, and bring all this to a peaceful conclusion before the weekend. I mean, as a messiah and all, he does have the Judgement to Lead, right?

I certainly hope that he does not! WE have to pay for the Secret Service protection and they are already overbudget by $9.5 million because he chooses to have his coronation at the outdoor stadium instead of the convention hall that they already have to cover.

191 jackfetch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:05am

I've seen the term "cease-fire" at least 10,000 times since this started. There was a Georgian cease-fire, a French cease-fire, the European cease-fire, and on and on.

If the advance doesn't stop, doesn't pause, doesn't even seem to take time out for sandwiches, can we stop plastering the word cease-fire everywhere?

I mean, seriously, even Hitler waited 5 months before rolling troops out of the Sudetenland and over the rest of Czechoslovakia. The Russians are apparently peeing in bottles, because they're not making rest stops on their way through Georgia.

192 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:08am

re: #183 WriterMom

They must have got them at them at the Olympics. I hear cuisine of that nature is all the rage.


You're thinking ofgeoducks. It's easy to confuse the two.

193 Darwin Akbar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:16am

It is really hard to believe that Putin would dare disobey a strongly worded statement from Senator Obama.

As far as the "this wouldn't have happened if not for Iraq" meme, it's the usual liberal shell game - the war we are fighting is never the war we should be fighting. Also, the Euroweenies seem to have forgotten that little Serbian problem they handled so well.

Has anyone considered how the world would be howling if we substituted the words "Russia" and "Georgia" with the words "Israel" and "Gaza"? Jews would be hunted down and beaten to death all over Europe, and there would be a million worthless Europeans taking a day off from their grueling 35-hour work weeks to march in the streets.

194 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:21am

re: #161 GGMac

I wonder if Pelosi's KGB membership has expired...

/

195 filetandrelease  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:24am

re: #142 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

no, NATO will not back us up.

I hope you are wrong.

196 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:30am
197 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:47:34am

re: #121 MandyManners

Gah - it took them that long to decide it was Bushitlers fault, after all, all the time, from the start? And the poor poor Russians were sooo provoked?

Feeble, very feeble (if not unexpected, however ...).

198 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:48:13am

re: #166 christheprofessor

If he gets elected -- I think his prospects are dimming each day. But, the election is a long way off still, and things change...

There is no way he can win. He must not win.

199 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:48:22am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

The Russians are not gearing up to invade Iraq, fer chrissake. (And even if they did, they'd better plan on walking back home.)

Let's calm down, people.

Somebody asked what comes after Tbilisi if the Russians keep on as they have done. On a straight path, 382 miles later one arrives in Mosul, Iraq.

200 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:48:49am

re: #154 alegrias

The Russians Are Coming
The Russians Are Coming

Ee-MAIR-gency! Everybody to get from street!

201 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:49:07am

re: #167 Charles
Can you at the very least delete their comments?
If not ban them outright?I'm serious here; the Russian invasion of another Democratic nation, which has stood shoulder to shoulder with us in Iraq, is FAR too serious a matter for idiots to be posting in support of Russia on any thread Disco Institute or otherwise. And especially now that the United States is sending it's military to Georgia to provided humanitarian and medical aid to Georgians, which such efforts by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy could well meet armed resistance from Russia.
I don't recall ever asking for anything like this before, but I am seriously asking you to delete those comments in support of Russia - aside from their immorality (and I haven't looked and don't know who the posters are) such comments really make LGF look BAD.

202 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:49:35am

re: #188 opnion

I get where your coming from, but I have to believe that Putin looked at the Obama phenom & figured that the U.S has taken a really strange turn. Maybe I just really, really loathe BHO.

Maybe, but this little picnic by the Soviet Russian Army is More likely to strengthen McCain than Obama I would think. This is more a message to the other lost Soviet Bloc nations to get in line or else. We have to start sending some messages of our own!

203 Sunlight  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:49:52am

re: #31 Ben Hur

WHERE ARE THE EUROPEANS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I bet this has knocked the wind out of the Euros and they are frozen just waiting to see if this unburies the VB type sliminess that we discussed (or rediscovered in LGF discussions) last year... it's been camouflaged, but this type of barbarity could rouse it out of its slimy pit.

204 christheprofessor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:50:07am

re: #144 galloping granny

Sure. That is why Susan Rice is screaming about McCain "shooting from the hip" and "making the situation worse."

aka having a tantrum 'cause her guy got there lastest with the leastest.

Didn't she work for Kerry? Does she work for Obama now? I would expect her to politicize the situation if it would help get her precious socialist friends elected.

205 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:50:28am

re: #199 galloping granny

Somebody
asked what comes after Tbilisi if the Russians keep on as they have
done. On a straight path, 382 miles later one arrives in Mosul, Iraq.

They'd have to go through Armenia first. Not that Putin doesn't have them in his sights, too.

206 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:50:45am

re: #201 realwest

I would prefer you scrape their IP addresses/route data and email them to me :)

207 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:50:57am

re: #173 Occasional Reader

Yeah, I'm getting a little annoyed by the talk that conflates "recognition of limitations with this particular situatión" with "we are powerless against the fierce, reinvigorated Russian bear." Nonsense. The US military completely outmatches the Russian military is every single category. It ain't even close.

Absolutely.
Putin would be mad to push too hard, and I don't think he's mad. He's expecting everyone to bluster and fuss and finally accept the status quo.

208 harrylook  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:51:23am

Brainstorming for solutions....

Embargo of Russia.
Can we kick Russia out of the G8?
NATO sends peacekeepers to Georgia and dares Russia to start a war with someone their own size.

209 harrylook  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:52:15am

re: #150 lawhawk

It hits our prestige and influence in the region, but there are ways to restore the situation and to make Russia think twice.

One - grant membership to the Ukraine. Ukraine tells Russia to pound sand and vacate their base in Sevastopol.

Grant membership to Georgia. Use that as a means to demand Russia's exit and return status quo ante or else face NATO firepower.

It ups the stakes, but does so in a way that gives Russia an out before shooting starts between NATO/US forces and the Russians.

I like those ideas as well....

210 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:54:23am

Good, we're interposing ourselves in the fight, trying to force an effective cease-fire. That's step one.

Step two is backing the Russians up into North Ossetia.

Step three is punishing Putin big-time.

211 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:55:02am

re: #208 harrylook

Brainstorming for solutions....

Embargo of Russia.
Can we kick Russia out of the G8?
NATO sends peacekeepers to Georgia and dares Russia to start a war with someone their own size.

Would have to bring the EU on board for those to be successful and Russia controls their fuel

212 Vergeltung  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:55:12am

re: #100 Oh no...Sand People!

McCarthey was right.

Nixon understodd this as well (and Kissenger).

213 Egfrow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:56:04am

The Russian word for Truce is Annexation.

214 Darwin Akbar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:58:21am

VDH spoke about this with Dean Barnett on the Hewitt show last night. Here is the money quote:

"He’s (Putin) telling Europe you can give us all the sanctimonious lectures that you want, but in the end, there’s not much to soft power. We don’t really care about the E.U. There’s a lot of people who say you know, if they had been in NATO, they would have been protected. I have exactly the opposite feeling. Had they been in NATO, NATO would have been humiliated and dissolved, because nobody would have done anything to protect Georgia, from what we’ve seen in Afghanistan. So it was basically saying these are the periphery states of the old Soviet empire, and they’re really Russia, and they have been historically, and we’re going to keep them. They’re going to be autocratic, they’re going to serve our needs, and we don’t think much of the World Court of the Hague, or the E.U. or the U.N., and we have no respect for NATO, and this is the way it’s going to be from now on. And if you don’t like it, do something about it. That’s pretty much what they’ve said."
[Link: hughhewitt.townhall.com...]

215 kynna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:58:46am

re: #146 Cognito

I'm not wimping out, brother.

I'm saying we need to STOP wimping out.

You're going to piss people off when the first thing you do before you make your point is rag on the US. In case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of people who are sick of being blamed for every fracking thing that happens in this world of parasites.

I'm glad to see our military is getting involved in humanitarian efforts. I hope they aren't fired upon while there. Although that might bring about the necessary outrage to settle things, I'd rather have them all come home safe and sound.

This is a horrible situation and the blame lays squarely on Russia and Europe. It's time to start saying that loudly and clearly so they can feel the shame they deserve.

That's a start. Blaming the US or putting down our stature in the world never saved a single innocent life.

216 harrylook  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:59:09am

re: #211 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would have to bring the EU on board for those to be successful and Russia controls their fuel

Excellent point. However, I would be sure to tell the Europeans that if they don't act, Russia may control more than just their fuel.

217 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:59:42am

re: #151 WriterMom

A good comment. I'm not saying this is no big deal. It is. And I'm not saying the US wasn't caught flat-footed, they were. Much depends on what happens next.

The US does have options other than "give up" and "thermonuclear war". Bush indicated what some of those options are. Much should be read into what he didn't say in his short statement. We can be sure much is going on we won't hear about.

If the Russians move on from Gori to Tiblisi, then it is clear they mean to overthrow the Georgian gov't. If they stop in Gori, then the Russian will have figured that's as far as they can push it & they will settle for a deal & pull back to South Ossetia.

Russia is trying to force a military settlement as quickly as possible. So far, the Georgians army has refused to stand and fight, which is a good thing because they would loose today. But in the long run, the military situation will swing to Georgia's advantage. Russia has sent an armored column into a mountainous country, an army that will soon be hungry for fuel, food and ammunition. If the US supplies the Georgians with a few key weapons, the Russians will start to feel the pain.

Geopolitically, the Russians have already overplayed their hand. The neighbors & former subjects will be clamoring for NATO membership now. This is the opposite of the outcome the Russians hope for, but then bullies are often their own worse enemies.

218 Jinx  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 8:59:49am

re: #31 Ben Hur

Where do you think they get their natural gas from?

Russia can act without recourse because it knows it has the Euros by the short and curlies. All Russia has to do is say, you want to play hard ball? Try having a cold winter with no natural gas. That'll have the Euros waving their white flags quick.

219 MadJadBad  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:00:06am

Tskinvali is less than 20 miles north of Gori. Gori is only about 40 miles west of Tbilisi. That's not a lot of distance to cover for the Russians. It looks bad for Georgia.

220 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:00:37am

re: #173 Occasional Reader I agree with you O.R., but I also have to say that recognizing our limitations in the region doesn't equal not doing ANYTHING about it, either.
You don't always (or even ususally) get to defend or fight when and where you want to. That's why Ronald Reagan recognized the need to be able to project US military might with TEN active Duty Aircraft carrier Battle groups, at least 8 ships each specifically designed to carry a US Marine Brigade and all it's supplies and with the capacity to airlift them via helicopter significant distances.
I don't want to conflate anything, but the fact is this: the US MUST do something here and, apparently according to Bush's speech is doing just about exactly the right things, too.
And should Russia attack US Airforce or Naval assests trying to deliver humanitarian and medical aid, then the US will just have to force the Russians to allow that to happen.

221 Egfrow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:01:23am

re: #214 Darwin Akbar

VDH spoke about this with Dean Barnett on the Hewitt show last night. Here is the money quote:

"He’s (Putin) telling Europe you can give us all the sanctimonious lectures that you want, but in the end, there’s not much to soft power. We don’t really care about the E.U. There’s a lot of people who say you know, if they had been in NATO, they would have been protected. I have exactly the opposite feeling. Had they been in NATO, NATO would have been humiliated and dissolved, because nobody would have done anything to protect Georgia, from what we’ve seen in Afghanistan. So it was basically saying these are the periphery states of the old Soviet empire, and they’re really Russia, and they have been historically, and we’re going to keep them. They’re going to be autocratic, they’re going to serve our needs, and we don’t think much of the World Court of the Hague, or the E.U. or the U.N., and we have no respect for NATO, and this is the way it’s going to be from now on. And if you don’t like it, do something about it. That’s pretty much what they’ve said."
[Link: hughhewitt.townhall.com...]

This is the accurate essesment of Russian intent I've heard in years. Let's not exclude China's role in this venture, There is the Taiwan dispute that will flare up very shortly. China has good incentive to follow Russia's example.

222 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:01:33am

Russia will push for partitioning Georgia. Everything north of the river will be theirs. Next is the partitioning of Ukraine. The easterners will protest the 2010 elections. Tymoshenko will get the west; the east will petition Russia.

223 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:02:19am

re: #174 Kenneth
IF Turkey comes in on the side of the Georgians, the Russians - who's supply lines are now stretched waaay too far already - will be well and truly screwed.

224 FrogMarch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:03:46am

Like good thuggish a-hole liars- they will continue to lie about it.

225 Egfrow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:04:19am

re: #222 godfrey

Russia will push for partitioning Georgia. Everything north of the river will be theirs. Next is the partitioning of Ukraine. The easterners will protest the 2010 elections. Tymoshenko will get the west; the east will petition Russia.

Putin does not strike me as a person who does something half ass. I would expect all of Georgia to be under control very shortly. The only exception would be the natural geological boundaries.

226 GGMac  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:04:27am

re: #167 Charles

And by the way, there is something very fishy going on in the last Discovery Institute thread. We seem to have picked up some relentless apologists for Russia:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And isn't it curious that those 'lizards' have been basically silent, until just now - when Moscow will be appreciating support from any sources they can [or have already] muster...

227 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:04:29am
Abkhazia lies close to the heart of many Russians. Its Black Sea coast was a favorite vacation spot in Soviet times and the province is just down the coast from Sochi, the Russian resort that will host the 2014 Olympics.

Close down that idea, pronto.

228 Egfrow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:06:40am

re: #224 FrogMarch

Like good thuggish a-hole liars- they will continue to lie about it.

I don't think Putin is much of a Liar, he just doesn't say his intent one way or the other. Criminals usually don't announce their plans to their victims unless there is nothing they can do. They just stab in the back, throw you out of a window, or lace your Social with weapons grade radioactive material.

229 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:07:14am

Situation Report: Russian-Georgian Conflict

230 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:08:33am

re: #98 MandyManners

I got the link to the Georgian Foreign Ministry from a Lizard yesterday, and those links I posted are on that site.

I'm passing your links on to my friends in Russia. They can't believe the BS the Russian government is dishing out to the masses. The husband is probably leaving earlier than he had expected because of this situation.

This is part of their email this morning...I'm flooding them with information.

Hi *****,
Now *** is occupied with all Larry's reading. It is very interesting and even I read some. I hope all that mess is over.
Pat got very irritated by everything and it looks like he needs a little spark to explode. I think he needs to go home and I will try to solve the problems alone.

231 Egfrow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:09:42am

Liberals will not protest and will blame the USA for having the gall to export freedom and democracy.

232 GGMac  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:10:06am

re: #169 lawhawk

Ukraine no longer possesses nuclear weapons as of 1996. It was at that time that the former republics ceded the weapons to Russia.

Ukraine no longer has nuclear weapons - but those Russian warships at the Sevestopol [leased from Ukraine Russian Naval Base] aren't nuke-naked, I'll wager!

233 JHW  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:10:46am

Here's a Ukrainian source with several interesting developments. The Eastern European nations will certainly press western Europe for a harder stance.
Polish Leader Slams French Plan for Ceasefire

234 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:11:01am

I want to know where Code Pink is on the Russian invasion?

Changing name to Code Red?

235 right_on_target  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:12:21am

re: #219 MadJadBad

Tskinvali is less than 20 miles north of Gori. Gori is only about 40 miles west of Tbilisi. That's not a lot of distance to cover for the Russians. It looks bad for Georgia.

The SOVIETS want their holy city of GORI back I suppose.
Birthplace of Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili [Stalin]

236 markx  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:27:15am
... was looted and bombed by the Russians

History repeating itself. Where have I read this before?

237 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:39am

re: #215 kynna

You're going to piss people off when the first thing you do before you make your point is rag on the US. In case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of people who are sick of being blamed for every fracking thing that happens in this world of parasites.

I'm glad to see our military is getting involved in humanitarian efforts. I hope they aren't fired upon while there. Although that might bring about the necessary outrage to settle things, I'd rather have them all come home safe and sound.

This is a horrible situation and the blame lays squarely on Russia and Europe. It's time to start saying that loudly and clearly so they can feel the shame they deserve.

That's a start. Blaming the US or putting down our stature in the world never saved a single innocent life.

Well that's a fine thought, but I don't see how it applies here.

Where, exactly did I blame America for what's happening over there? Of course we didn't do this.

Nonsense.

238 wiffersnapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:06am

go go power liberals! create the megazord and fight the evil warmonger ruskies. excelsior!

239 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:49:18am
240 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:11am
241 Maine's Michael  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:05am

re: #75 WriterMom

I agree with you completely. This is a direct challenge to America. It's Putin-the KGB Thug and Murderer turning to America and saying 'do me something'.

I love when you talk dirty . . .

242 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:00am

re: #241 Maine's Michael

Hi Mikey-where's my borscht, baby?

243 kynna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:38am

re: #237 Cognito

Well that's a fine thought, but I don't see how it applies here.

Where, exactly did I blame America for what's happening over there? Of course we didn't do this.

Nonsense.

May I quote part of post #1 by 'cognite'

This is a profound embarrassment to the United States.

How the hell is it a profound embarrassment if it's not our fault?

It's only so if you make it so. First step, blame those at fault. Then punish them. The US is not at fault and therefore has no reason to be 'embarrassed'.

244 kynna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:23am

Oops -- that would be post # 1 by 'cognito' -- but I think you get my drift.

PIMF

245 Albigensian  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:42am

Historically, Russian troops have excelled at, umm, "violating."

246 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:10:41pm

re: #93 jcm

Suppose the gave a war and nobody came?

When the invitation are out and the Russians are gobbling up all the party goodies.

The other side always shows up.

247 kevinmumaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 2:28:06pm

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

One other thing - we can't get to Georgia to help because Turkey would never let us through. Just as Turkey wouldn't let us through to Northern Iraq in the invasion.

Turkey is part of NATO.

Good thing we have that NATO alliance, eh?

That's why we have launch pads in Romania and Bulgaria.

248 whatdafuq  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 2:48:52pm

Saakashvili was quoted on NPR this morning as saying that the Russian
troops are even taking the toilet seats. Seriously, that's what he said!

Where's Strobe Talbott? We need more platitudes to democracy....

249 Seraphym  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:21:04pm

re: #28 alegrias

* * *
C'mon, Russians looted even toilet bowls from Germany, to take back to the USSR.

In Soviet Russia, toilet bowls loot you!

/my appologies
//yes, this is serious stuff

250 Jed  Thu, Aug 14, 2008 6:28:36am

Are the NGO's screaming 'disproportionate" and 'war crimes' as they did against Israel. Is the UN and journalists examining every bomb to see if was aimed at civilians?

Hypocrits- all of them.


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