LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Max Boot: Stand Up to Russia

Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:12:24 am PDT

Max Boot’s op-ed on the situation in Georgia: Stand up to Russia.

It took the Red Army — excuse me, the Russian army — only two days to secure Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Now Russia is pressing its attacks into the heart of Georgia, threatening to cut the major east-west highway and vital oil pipeline. Moscow’s ultimate goal remains unclear, but it may well be to topple the democratically elected government of President Mikheil Saakashvili and replace him with a pro-Kremlin stooge. That is what the Russians did in Chechnya in 1999-2000.

The difference is that, while Chechnya had aspirations of nationhood, Georgia has already achieved it. Since the collapse of the Soviet empire in 1991, it has been a fully sovereign country. More recently, as a result of the 2003 Rose Revolution, Georgia has become a democracy — admittedly an imperfect democracy, but with far greater rule of law than Russia. By crossing Georgia’s borders, the Russians have committed their worst violation of international law since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.

At a time like this, it is vital for the leaders of the West to stand together and make clear that this aggression will not stand. This is no time for weaselly statements of moral equivalence claiming that Georgia brought this war on itself or that Russia’s response is merely “disproportionate” — as if there were a “proportionate” level of aggression that would be justified. Whatever the details of the clash that began last week between Georgia and the breakaway, pro-Russia province of South Ossetia, there can be no excuse for Russia’s invasion. The presidents of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland were on the mark in their demand that “aggression against a small country in Europe ... not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimizers.”

Boot’s piece prompted a vicious attack from Russia’s propaganda machine: From Russia with Bile.

Advertisement

128 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:14:05am

I want to know where Code Pink is on the Russian invasion?

Changing name to Code Red?

2 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:14:17am

Replace Sakaashvili with a Putin puppet or,force Georgia back into Russia?

3 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:14:51am

Will Georgia follow through with leaving CIS?

4 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:14:55am
5 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:15:35am

Can anyone say Russian premeditated murder?

6 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:16:25am

re: #2 MandyManners

Replace Sakaashvili with a Putin puppet or,force Georgia back into Russia?

How about first option one, followed by option two?

7 joncelli  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:16:31am

Easier said than done, but it could be done under the guise of a humanitarian mission. Have the USAF set up a no-fly zone around Tbilisi, wait until the USN can bring up Marines who set up a tripwire perimeter around the city, and then sponsor negotiations. As long as the Georgian government has the capital, it's in business. (Repeated from last thread.)

8 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:16:37am

re: #4 cutestguy

Let's see if they back those words up or if its just pandering.

I imagine they mean it. If Putin can roll through Georgia, what's/who's to stop him in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland?

What has Armenia said? Azerbaijan?

9 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:16:44am

re: #5 jorline

Me.

Again and again. Loudly.

10 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:17:22am

re: #6 Dianna

How about first option one, followed by option two?

Option one would be the equal of option two.

11 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:17:35am

And speaking of Russian propaganda, there's something very fishy going on in this thread about the Discovery Institute's collaboration with Russia:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

12 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:18:01am

re: #3 MandyManners

They should and I think if the Georgian government survives they will leave CIS. They've been let down by others in the group and they desperately need better allies.

13 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:18:10am

real oil wars go unnoticed by Pelosi, Reid and company. Heard a moonbat Professor from Pepperdine Law School opine yesterday that this war was Bush's fault because he gave the wrong 'signals'. Obama would be more willing to negotiate so the invasion would never happen. This degree of unreality cannot be argued against. It os so delusional as to constitute a mental illness.

14 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:18:13am

re: #8 MandyManners

Last I saw, Armenia had protested, and Azerbaijan was making little squeaking noises.

15 joncelli  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:18:46am

re: #7 joncelli

I'm a doofus. Forgot about Airborne. They could get there even faster than the Marines.

16 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:19:08am

Many professors in academia are sitting in stunned silence...with a giddy nostalgia for days of old, reminiscent of children on the night before Christmas, rereading with renewed vigor the words of their prophet Karl Marx and slowly pulling out the Communist membership cards from their wallets.

no sarc needed.

17 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:19:20am
18 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:19:39am

re: #10 MandyManners

Not necessarily. Do option one, get everyone to accept that, then incorporate Georgia, and the propagandists can ask what we're objecting to?

You see? It's sausage slicing.

19 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:03am

re: #13 pat

real oil wars go unnoticed by Pelosi, Reid and company. Heard a moonbat Professor from Pepperdine Law School opine yesterday that this war was Bush's fault because he gave the wrong 'signals'. Obama would be more willing to negotiate so the invasion would never happen. This degree of unreality cannot be argued against. It os so delusional as to constitute a mental illness.

Does he perhaps mean that Obama would be more likely to sell out an ally and simply allow Russia to seize the pipeline, consolidating oil & gas delivery to nearly all of Europe in Russian hands?

20 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:20am

re: #11 Charles

I'm staying out of that one.

21 calvin coolidge  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:35am

Russia wants to play these games? OK, then this is the perfect time to bomb the nuclear facility in Iran and blame it on an errant Russian missile. A little far fetched but it's worth a try.

22 filetandrelease  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:38am

This situation is moving so fast, and changing, the next few days are going to be interesting. (understatement) For the believers among us, this would be a good time to pray.

23 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:43am

re: #11 Charles

How far down?

24 Catttt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:43am

Are we going to just stand around kicking sand while an ally gets raped and pillaged by a bunch of "ex" commie thugs?

25 Iron Fist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:20:43am

re: #1 jorline

They're not really anti-war. They are anti-US only. This is Russia, so war is OK. Now if the US gets involved against Russia, expect the anti-war machine to return in full force.

26 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:21:44am

re: #11 Charles

And speaking of Russian propaganda, there's something very fishy going on in this thread about the Discovery Institute's collaboration with Russia:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Charles - did you get my report of the correct text of Bush's latest message for the previous thread? What you have posted is from last night rather than just now this morning.

27 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:21:49am

re: #13 pat

Oh, no, not the blasted "signaling" school again! I hated that nonsense when I was in Soviet studies, and I'm no more fond of it now!

28 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:21:57am

re: #15 joncelli

The Airborne as good as they are is still light infantry and I would be hesitant to put them up against armored formations.

29 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:22:31am

re: #24 Catttt

I am encouraged by the "humanitarian aid." It can make a lovely cover.

30 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:22:45am

re: #9 Dianna

Me.

Again and again. Loudly.

You don't amass that amount of troops and heavy equipment with 24 to 48 hours. This has been planned for quite a while and the upraising in Ossetia was probably orchestrated by Putin Russia.

31 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:23:37am

The WORST thing we can do is try to game out a new status quo that accepts Georgia becoming a client state of Russia.

We've been down that road before.

32 joncelli  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:23:39am

re: #28 bulwrk

It's not a matter of actually fighting; it's a matter of being there. The Russians will not attack US troops, so they would form a wall around the remainder of the country: "tripwire" is the term usually used.

33 mbruce  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:23:59am

They also seem to be doing well at setting up a stooge govmt here, a celeb to boot as leader.

34 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:24:13am

re: #12 Killgore Trout

They should and I think if the Georgian government survives they will leave CIS. They've been let down by others in the group and they desperately need better allies.

What could they join? NATO? Will the Europeans be keen on that?

35 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:24:55am

re: #28 bulwrk

The Airborne as good as they are is still light infantry and I would be hesitant to put them up against armored formations.

Ah...can you say, "javelins"?

I knew you could!

36 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:25:25am

re: #1 jorline

I want to know where Code Pink is on the Russian invasion?

Changing name to Code Red?

Maybe the Boobs not Bombs people should go to Russia and convince them to leave Georgia?
Or go to Georgia, and frighten the Russian soldiers.
/ do I need to?

37 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:25:32am

re: #30 jorline

I've been saying that since last weekend. I keep saying it.

38 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:25:47am

re: #11 Charles

good lord.

39 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:25:50am

re: #23 Dianna

How far down?

Near the end of the thread. Some poster who claims he's ex-CIA.

40 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:26:11am

re: #31 karmic_inquisitor

Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

What I tell you three times is true!

41 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:26:15am

Who will stand up to Egypt?

Confessions of an Egyptian Ambassador to Israel

'I was sent to Israel as intel officer'

Former Egyptian ambassador to Israel Mohammed Bassiouny was quoted as saying Wednesday that he was sent to Israel as an intelligence officer.

Bassiouny was speaking about his time in Israel in a speech Saturday at the national library in Alexandria. "There is no such thing as friendship [with the Israelis]...Besides, I was sent there as an intelligence officer and not because of my character. Do you really think that I worked there as an ambassador?" said the former ambassador, who was recalled by Egypt a short while after the outbreak of the second Intifada.

Bassiouny refused to describe Israel as a democracy, citing its poor treatment of Israeli Arabs. "There is no such thing really as Israeli society, but it is a collection of immigrants from different countries in the world," he added.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Recipient of $Billions in American aid.

42 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:26:16am

BTW - we could easily up the ante for Russia if we wanted to.

We could send in a demo team to destroy the tunnel between South and North Ossetia. The only other route between the two are mountain passes which will close in 6 weeks when the snow returns.

43 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:26:40am

re: #13 pat

real oil wars go unnoticed by Pelosi, Reid and company. Heard a moonbat Professor from Pepperdine Law School opine yesterday that this war was Bush's fault because he gave the wrong 'signals'. Obama would be more willing to negotiate so the invasion would never happen. This degree of unreality cannot be argued against. It os so delusional as to constitute a mental illness.

Al-Jazeera agrees with him.

The US has had stern words for Russia over its military intervention in Georgia to back South Ossietian separatists, but many analysts say that the Bush administration must share the blame for the crisis.

Washington has formed a close bond with the government of Mikheil Saakashvili since he came to power in the 2003 'Rose Revolution,' offering military and economic aid and encouraging Georgia to join Nato.

Jon Sawyer, the director for the Pulitzer Centre for Crisis Reporting, said US politicians had encouraged their Georgian counterparts to think they had the backing of the US when Tbilisi decided to launch its attack on South Ossetia last week.

"The US has for several years now mishandled the situation in Georgia," he told Al Jazeera.

"The way that Mikheil Saakashvili has approached this [has been by] thinking that he could be an extension of the west, a partner of the United States."

"In many ways we have given him cause for thinking that, with the many visits to the United States, the talk of Georgia as a beacon for democracy."

Charles Kupchan of the Council on Foreign Relations, agrees that US encouragement may have made Saakashvili "miscalculate" and send Georgian troops into South Ossetia.

"I think in many respects Saakashvili got too close to the United States and the United States got too close to Saakashvili," Kupchan told the Reuters news agency.

"It made him overreach, it made him feel at the end of the day that the West would come to his assistance if he got into trouble."

The statistics seem to back the view that Tbilisi felt itself under the protective wing of the Bush administration.


US and Georgian leaders have forged
a close relationship
As well as diplomatic encouragement, Saakashvili's government was offered both economic and military aid by Washington.

US special forces trained Georgian troops in 2002 to combat Chechen fighters in the Pankisi Gorge, which borders Chechnya, as part of the US "war on terror".

And Georgian forces continued to recieve training from the US as they prepared to send troops to Iraq, following the US-led invasion in 2003.

Washington gave $151 million to the Georgian government in security aid between 2004 and 2006.

Tbilisi has also benefited from the Millenium Challenge Corporation, a Bush administration programme intended to reward countries for "effective governance".

The corporation has signed agreements totaling $295 million, making Georgia the fourth-biggest recipient of funds.

SNIP

44 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:26:41am

re: #33 mbruce

They also seem to be doing well at setting up a stooge govmt here, a celeb to boot as leader.

George Clooney?

/

45 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:27:15am

re: #14 Dianna

Last I saw, Armenia had protested, and Azerbaijan was making little squeaking noises.

LOL!

46 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:27:47am
equating the victims with the victimizers.”

Well world, once again things that you allowed to happen in OTHER conflicts, and yes of course once again I am speaking about Israel, come back and bite you in the ass.

Inconsistency is a bitch, and it's called hypocracy.

47 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:27:52am

We will never put infantry or armor units bigger than a squad in an area where they don't have air cover.

48 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:27:58am

re: #17 cutestguy

I am very surprised Armenia hasn't said a thing. And they are right in the path of the onslaught.

See Dianna's No. 14.

49 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:28:02am

re: #32 joncelli

It's not a matter of actually fighting; it's a matter of being there. The Russians will not attack US troops, so they would form a wall around the remainder of the country: "tripwire" is the term usually used.

I am not - not - going to count on that. I'm just not. The Russians are thinking they can make us back down. They will bet that the US will run rather than directly confront Russian troops.

Tripwire is only good if we're willing to shoot back and keep shooting.

50 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:28:20am

re: #32 joncelli

Thats a huge roll of the dice with the best light infantry unit in the world, we just made need those troops to fight for and control the mountain passes in a shooting war.

51 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:28:28am

Is this the first time US and Russian forces have ever squared off each other openly? Is this historic?

52 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:28:35am

re: #18 Dianna

Not necessarily. Do option one, get everyone to accept that, then incorporate Georgia, and the propagandists can ask what we're objecting to?

You see? It's sausage slicing.

A Putin puppet is the same as forcing it back into Russia.

53 Jinx  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:28:59am

Again, I want to know where the Europeans are.

I want to know where the anti-war hypocrites are, the ones who screamed the US went in unilaterally into Iraq with a host of other nations. Where is their condemnation of a truly unilateral action?

Hypocrites.

Cowards.

Liars.

54 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:03am

re: #52 MandyManners

A Putin puppet is the same as forcing it back into Russia.

Well, just a puppet won't require the cartographers to burn the midnight oil.

55 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:09am

re: #19 galloping granny

That surely would be the effect. The Oboma The Negotiator meme is the silliest campaign platform imaginable.

56 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:18am

re: #42 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - we could easily up the ante for Russia if we wanted to.

We could send in a demo team to destroy the tunnel between South and North Ossetia. The only other route between the two are mountain passes which will close in 6 weeks when the snow returns.

Or use penetrator bombs on the South Ossetia entrance to accomplish the same thing.

57 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:31am

re: #51 faraway

Is this the first time US and Russian forces have ever squared off each other openly? Is this historic?

Cuban Missile Crisis is the last that comes to mind for me. Anything else has been a proxy war.

58 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:34am

re: #49 Dianna

I am not - not - going to count on that. I'm just not. The Russians are thinking they can make us back down. They will bet that the US will run rather than directly confront Russian troops.

Tripwire is only good if we're willing to shoot back and keep shooting.

Yup. Not being willing to back it up if they choose to fire would be even worse than doing nothing at all and letting them just take over Georgia and whatever else of Europe they care to.

59 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:50am

I'm glad to see that the moonbats are alive and well over at HuffPo.

teron678 See Profile

Serves Georgia Right .. They started the War ...... Don't Let the MSM brainwash you into believing otherwise ...........

Russia is the Good guys in This War!

MSM is just trying to Brainwash the American people into another Unjustified War ... Whether it's with Russia or Iran .......

60 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:52am

re: #41 Opinionated

Yeah, and I am sure Israel showed him all their sensitive defense facilities? What a schmuck. The Israeli's know exactly were Egypt stands. Oh and as for Democracies, How many leaders have you all had in Egypt over the last 50 years?

61 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:29:52am

re: #39 Ward Cleaver

Near the end of the thread. Some poster who claims he's ex-CIA.

Oh?

I really want to go look, but this thread's got me hooked!

62 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:30:22am

Gee - I think the solution to this problem is to hand it to a Chicago based community organizer who has never held down a steady job and whose credit score was so bad (before he became a best selling author) he couldn't rent a car on his credit card.

/

63 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:30:24am

re: #39 Ward Cleaver

Near the end of the thread. Some poster who claims he's ex-CIA.

And, I'm the Empress of the Known Universe.

64 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:30:40am

re: #53 Jinx

Again, I want to know where the Europeans are.

I want to know where the anti-war hypocrites are, the ones who screamed the US went in unilaterally into Iraq with a host of other nations. Where is their condemnation of a truly unilateral action?

Hypocrites.

Cowards.

Liars.

Soft power is no power.

65 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:30:54am
66 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:14am

So the 'wrong signal' was freedom, democracy, and the cessatin of corrupt government? Perfect.

67 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:20am

re: #62 karmic_inquisitor

Gee - I think the solution to this problem is to hand it to a Chicago based community organizer who has never held down a steady job and whose credit score was so bad (before he became a best selling author) he couldn't rent a car on his credit card.

/

Lord Obama is a serial job hopper.

68 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:25am

re: #51 faraway

Is this the first time US and Russian forces have ever squared off each other openly? Is this historic?

They used to stare at each other 24 hours a day at the Fulda Gap.

69 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:31am

re: #47 karmic_inquisitor

I would hope not!

70 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:45am

BBL - gotta go pick grapes.

71 GGMac  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:31:59am

re: #11 Charles

And speaking of Russian propaganda, there's something very fishy going on in this thread about the Discovery Institute's collaboration with Russia:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


Re-posting my #226 fromm 'Russia violates truce' thread -

And isn't curious that those 'lizards' have been basically silent, until just now 0 when Moscow will be appreciating support from any sources they can [or have already] muster...

72 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:11am

re: #63 MandyManners

And, I'm the Empress of the Known Universe.

You're not?!

73 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:12am

re: #51 faraway

Is this the first time US and Russian forces have ever squared off each other openly? Is this historic?

Well we are not facing off with them first of all. But all thru the Cold War we and the Soviets were firing at each other. We had plenty of planes shot at and shot down over Soviet territory. Not mention our subs bumping into each other. It was not such a cold war, it got hot sometimes.

74 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:13am

re: #35 Dianna

Dianna plus A-64 Apaches but it still goes against established military doctrine.

75 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:22am

re: #60 Nevergiveup

Yeah, and I am sure Israel showed him all their sensitive defense facilities? What a schmuck. The Israeli's know exactly were Egypt stands. Oh and as for Democracies, How many leaders have you all had in Egypt over the last 50 years?

But all Egyptians vote for their fearless leaders. They gladly re-elect them.
/do I need to?

76 joncelli  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:46am

re: #49 Dianna

Yes, there may have to be an exchange of fire -- maybe a couple -- to make the Russians get the message that we're there to stay. Big, huge-ass, honking gamble, to be sure. On the other hand, W is said to be an excellent poker player.

(Russians play chess; Americans play poker.)

77 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:32:59am

re: #65 cutestguy

I just saw that. I guess I was too busy typing... eek

I'm gonna' look for a link.

78 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:33:16am

So the first photo of a Russian and an opposing American tank in Georgia will signal something historic.

79 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:33:22am

re: #52 MandyManners

De facto? Yes.

De jure? No.

We don't really disagree; what I'm talking about is the process of getting the West to swallow this atrocious behavior.

80 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:33:23am

re: #72 scottishbuzzsaw

You're not?!

You may kiss Our ring.

81 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:33:23am

re: #42 karmic_inquisitor

IMO we should bomb the snot out of Russian forces there... collapse one end of the tunnel, blow apart sections of the mountain passes to cut of the logistics and land Airborne and Marines along with as many Afghanis as would be willing to volunteer to kill Russians and force the conflict to a humiliating end. If Russia warns of any action against the US outside of the conflict zone then sink everything with a Russian flag and hunt all their subs until they have no more.

82 GGMac  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:33:31am

#71

PIMF: "...isn't IT curious..."

83 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:23am

re: #73 Nevergiveup

of course, but what about openly - not covertly?

84 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:32am

re: #75 Kosh's Shadow

But all Egyptians vote for their fearless leaders. They gladly re-elect them.
/do I need to?

And Mubarak first got into the Office of President when his predecessor decided to resign after getting filled with lead?

85 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:47am

Some of us need to get real. Sit down, take a breath, mebbe go to the john.

86 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:56am

re: #68 karmic_inquisitor

They used to stare at each other 24 hours a day at the Fulda Gap.

Except when they got physical. Which they did.

87 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:09am

Question.

Who will play her? Angelina or Julia?

Alleged Mata Hari of Al Qaeda Could Provide 'Treasure Trove' of Intelligence

who attended MIT as an undergraduate and earned her PhD in neuroscience at Brandeis

WATERBOARD T-SHIRT CONTEST!

88 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:13am

re: #57 FurryOldGuyJeans

The 1919 intervention.

89 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:20am

re: #73 Nevergiveup

Well we are not facing off with them first of all. But all thru the Cold War we and the Soviets were firing at each other. We had plenty of planes shot at and shot down over Soviet territory. Not mention our subs bumping into each other. It was not such a cold war, it got hot sometimes.

That it did...

90 Iron Fist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:24am

re: #59 jorline

Like I said earlier: not anti-war. They are on the other side. Always.

91 wolfie  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:31am

re: #17 cutestguy

I am very surprised Armenia hasn't said a thing. And they are right in the path of the onslaught.

I'm not.
I'd be shocked if Armenia and Azerbaijan said much of anything.
When a bear is eating their neighbor, what are they supposed to do?
Thrown pebbles at it?

92 gman  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:46am

re: #59 jorline

I'm glad to see that the moonbats are alive and well over at HuffPo.

teron678 See Profile

Serves Georgia Right .. They started the War ...... Don't Let the MSM brainwash you into believing otherwise ...........

Russia is the Good guys in This War!

MSM is just trying to Brainwash the American people into another Unjustified War ... Whether it's with Russia or Iran .......

These are the same people who say there is no just war.
Now look at them chomping at the bit.

93 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:54am

I really think that Europe needs to stand up. This is happening in Europe & who knows what Putins ultimate plans are?
We can help with logistics & if it looks like Russia is defeating a coalition of Europeans we would have to intervene. Europe should step up first but probably will not, so the ball is in our court & we are stretched.

94 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:15am

re: #83 faraway

of course, but what about openly - not covertly?

Remember that little incident called the "Cuban Missile Crisis"?

95 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:37am

re: #74 bulwrk

I'm aware; I know very little about military matters, but I've sort of mastered that part of doctrine.

It would, however, be a matter of "This is an emergency!" - or so it seems from the facts reported.

96 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:20am

re: #89 CIA Reject

That it did...

Great Book. Everyone should read it!

97 wolfie  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:56am

re: #27 Dianna

Oh, no, not the blasted "signaling" school again! I hated that nonsense when I was in Soviet studies, and I'm no more fond of it now!

Well, hip-huggers, mini-skirts and bell-bottoms are back, too!
*spit*

98 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:38:08am

re: #59 jorline

Idiots! They haven't noticed the long, long line of provocations, going back to last year?

Idiots!

99 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:11am

re: #92 gman

It's because they think it is so... if Bush had come out earlier and said "this could mean war" they'd be all against it...

100 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:10am

re: #4 cutestguy Um, excuse me, but Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia combined, are so small the Alabama National Guard could take 'em.
I really can't see them pandering or backing those words up; they were meant to be read by the US, Europe and Georgia.

101 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:56am

re: #84 Nevergiveup

And Mubarak first got into the Office of President when his predecessor decided to resign after getting filled with lead?

(I hope you noticed the sarc tag, apply it here as well)
Well, that happens in the US as well. Hasn't Mubarak been re-elected with 110% of the vote each time? After all, anyone who voted against him never really existed.

102 gman  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:41:30am

re: #71 GGMac

Re-posting my #226 fromm 'Russia violates truce' thread -

And isn't curious that those 'lizards' have been basically silent, until just now 0 when Moscow will be appreciating support from any sources they can [or have already] muster...

The most telling sign to me was when they attacked a list on the Russophobe website while completely ignoring all of the facts that were presented.

Are you happy to see me or is that an agenda in your pocket?

103 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:41:56am
104 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:41:58am

re: #81 anotherindyfilmguy

Let's just push the Russians out of Georgia. Anything more we do makes for the kind of war that was giving Occasional Reader nightmares (quite rightly) the other day.

105 ducktrapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:12am

Check the comments. Was this printed in Pravda? Wow! I wonder if they will print my comment calling them what they actually are. Either fools, liars, idiots, Russians or all four.

106 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:43am
107 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:10am

re: #85 maddogg

I should take that advice. I'm sorry, I know I'm a bit obsessive.

108 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:35am

re: #11 Charles
Charles - at the risk of repeating myself and perhaps incurring your wrath for doing so, I posted this to you two threads back:

"Can you at the very least delete their comments?
If not ban them outright?I'm serious here; the Russian invasion of another Democratic nation, which has stood shoulder to shoulder with us in Iraq, is FAR too serious a matter for idiots to be posting in support of Russia on any thread Disco Institute or otherwise. And especially now that the United States is sending it's military to Georgia to provided humanitarian and medical aid to Georgians, which such efforts by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy could well meet armed resistance from Russia.
I don't recall ever asking for anything like this before, but I am seriously asking you to delete those comments in support of Russia - aside from their immorality (and I haven't looked and don't know who the posters are) such comments really make LGF look BAD."

109 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:25am

re: #91 wolfie

If they had any, I'm sure they would.

110 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:45:39am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

Really excellent!

111 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:19am

re: #55 pat

That surely would be the effect. The Oboma The Negotiator meme is the silliest campaign platform imaginable.

Somehow, I just can't imagine a Reagan moment for Obama. The Russians would chew him up and spit him out in any "negotiation." So would pretty much any other world leader. The enthusiasm in other countries for Obama shows their salivation at having a gullible, naive, inexperienced neophyte at the helm of a superpower.

112 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:10am

re: #88 Dianna

The 1919 intervention.

That was during the Russian Civil War, though, so the USSR was at that time still not an fait accompli nor was there a single political entity in total charge like they were during the Missile Crisis.

113 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:53:35am

re: #112 FurryOldGuyJeans

True, but the Red Army and the United States Army did indeed confront each other.

114 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:01am

Oh, this thread, where I could actually contribute, is dead. Or dying before my eyes.

Sigh. It's a hint that I ought to actually do the work I'm paid to do.

115 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:02am

And for the record the type of intervention that Bush is proposing is similar to the Berlin Airlift, so now I see there were two direct confrontations with opposing Russian/Soviet military forces.

116 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:49am

re: #113 Dianna

True, but the Red Army and the United States Army did indeed confront each other.

I believe the question asked for at least a semblance of parity between the forces. At least that is the way I read the question and hence the way I answered it.

117 Blue Falcon  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:55am

#73, & previous

During the Russian Civil War Woodrow Wilson sent an expeditionary force to assist the White Army called the 'Polar Bear expedition'. I think that was the only time the US directly fought against Russia as uniformed nation vs. nation.

118 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:04:07am

The Russians still haven't stopped, and the Left blames the Georgians? The U.S. Administration owes this to the Georgians at a minimum.

Over the longer term, we'd better have a better game plan for similar Russian adventures in the future, a plan that deters the Russians. I'd say we were caught with our pants down.

119 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:07:33am

re: #53 Jinx

Again, I want to know where the Europeans are.

I want to know where the anti-war hypocrites are, the ones who screamed the US went in unilaterally into Iraq with a host of other nations. Where is their condemnation of a truly unilateral action?

Hypocrites.

Cowards.

Liars.

As long as Putin has his hands on all (or almost all) of the natural gas that is used by Europe, they are staying out of this. They are completely compromised and can do nothing now.

120 JHW  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:40am

re: #59 jorline

re: #98 Dianna

The Soviets.....err, I mean Russians, have long been preparing their domestic population for this, sowing the seeds of hatred for all things Georgian, the better to show what atrocious people they are, capable of any atrocity.From late 2006.,

A brief spy scandal earlier this month prompted Russia to withdraw its ambassador, cut transport and postal ties with Tbilisi, and initiate naval war games off Georgia's Black Sea coast. Over the past 10 days, dozens of Georgian-owned businesses across Russia have been closed down, for stated reasons ranging from sanitary violations to tax evasion. Nearly 1,000 Georgian "illegals" have been rounded up and flown to Tbilisi. Russia has also moved to curtail $2 billion in remittances sent home annually by the more than 1 million Georgian "guest workers" in Russia. The crackdown has also extended to Russian citizens with Georgian roots, some of whom have been targeted with tax audits and other official scrutiny.
"This anti-Georgian campaign concerns us all," says Nikolai Svanidze, a leading Russian television personality of Georgian heritage. "It has led to a wave of xenophobia, which is very dangerous in a multiethnic state."

Putin, Georgia 2006

Other assorted thuggery, 2006
Georgian Art Destroyed in Moscow

The gallery owner has been listed as an "enemy of Russia" on several nationalist web sites, for his Jewish last name, his promotion of non-traditional art and his campaigning against neo-fascists, the Associated Press reports.

Late 2006:Police Seek Lists of Georgian Children in New Crackdown

Until late last week, Putin and other officials trod a careful line, supporting nationalist parties such as Rodina but refraining from making inflammatory statements about Russia's ethnic groups. On Thursday, however, Putin called for tough new migration laws that would protect the interests of "the native population." "I did not believe my ears when I first heard this," said Vladimir Pribylovsky, an analyst who tracks Kremlin politics at the Panorama think tank. "There has been a lot of nationalism, but there has not been any ethnic nationalism until now. ... This is a very dangerous game." Putin's use of the term "native population" gives a green light for the radicalization of nationalist groups, said Galina Kozhevnikova of Sova, a nongovernmental group that studies xenophobia.

The demonization of Georgians in the Russian press has paid off for the
Russian leadership, any atrocity story is believed and repeated, even by westerners who should be more skeptical of uncorroborated reports of Georgian atrocities originating from the Kremlin.

121 Serge GoFan  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:14:50am

Meantime...

Yushchenko “locks” Russian ships in Crimea


President of Ukraine Victor Yushchenko has adopted a procedure of movement of the Russian Black Sea Fleet units beyond its Sevastopol base.

The text of the Decree #705/2008 dated August 13, 3008, is posted at the official web site of the Ukrainian President.

The decree confirms and puts into actions the decision of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine made on Wednesday, August 13, 2008. The NCDS noted that Ukraine lacked a clear mechanism for coordination of movements of BSF military men, ships, and aircraft beyond its Sevastopol base. As a result, an uncontrolled, without any coordination, movement of military units and military men of foreign states takes place, which does not correspond to the national interests of Ukraine, and poses a potential threat to lives and health of Ukrainian citizens.

Considering the NSDC resolution, the President, with his Decree, confirmed a procedure of coordinating BSF movements beyond its base with competent state bodies of Ukraine. Thus, BSF should seek a permission no later than 72 hours prior to any planned movements.


permanent URL of article:
[Link: www.unian.net...]

122 FrogMarch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:18:40am

Charles - when I click on the "+" sign to ding up this post - It doesn't take and instead I get shifted to the top of your web page.

123 ducktrapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:35am

I'm certainly prepared to believe that a Georgian or even many Georgians could have behaved badly but that is not the issue. Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring country. No real issue of self defence. Not to improve it or change it but to absorb it and also to sow fear among other former Soviet territories. The lefties with their hate America first policy can't seem to accept that first of all, the U.S. will leave Iraq, and secondly, will leave it a better place. I didn't think even the most naive fools could believe that about the Russians, however.

124 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:20:50am

re: #93 opnion

I really think that Europe needs to stand up. This is happening in Europe & who knows what Putins ultimate plans are?
We can help with logistics & if it looks like Russia is defeating a coalition of Europeans we would have to intervene. Europe should step up first but probably will not, so the ball is in our court & we are stretched.

In the politest possible way, might I ask to please desist from this Euro-bashing.
Sarkozy is not just President of the French - right now he leads the EU. The EU leadership rotates every 6 months. So if you think its just him cooking up something, think again.
I'd also like to remind all you Lizards that Europe, comapred to your country, is pretty small in size, but with a huge population. Thus, as all leaders, like Pres. Bush, have sworn to keep harm from their people, it is a little bit more difficult to 'stand up' when you know that, for example, Poland and Germany could be rolled up and your people decimated by the Russians. Do look at the geography, and the ridiculous distances involved. And do please not forget that there are still people alive who remember the devastation caused in WWII - just look up some photos of what the European cities looked like at the end of that ...
I'm pretty sure that there, as well as in the USA, stuff is going on behind closed doors of which we know next to nothing. So please be so kind and go a bit softly on this Euro-bashing.

125 Catttt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:21:55am

re: #122 FrogMarch

Charles - when I click on the "+" sign to ding up this post - It doesn't take and instead I get shifted to the top of your web page.

When that happens to me, I go back to the starting gate (homepage link), and it goes away.

126 ducktrapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:22:50am

re: #124 yma o hyd

Well hell it's only their lives and freedom at stake, why should we care anyway?

127 A. van Hilten  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:38am

Funny, last time I checked Pravda was in order to peruse a story about Serb organ trafficking, which had been linked to by Julia Gorin (last seen attacking Michael Totten over his piece on Kosovo Albanians).

Birds of a feather...

128 Lawrior  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 7:40:18pm

re: #51 faraway

Is this the first time US and Russian forces have ever squared off each other openly? Is this historic?

I think so, not counting any submarine encounters that have never been discussed. We did manage to steal one of their subs off the floor of the Pacific Ocean thanks to Howard Hughes.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

Free Shipping  and up to 30% savings on new Textbooks
More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Time to put on the big boy pants.


Holiday Gift Guide - Save up to 45% on the seasons best!
Finish Line- $10 off $60- 160 x 600
20% off Easy Reading Programs and More at Hooked On Phonics