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Bush Sending Military to Georgia for Humanitarian Aid

Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:33:22 am PDT

President Bush is sending US aircraft and Navy vessels to Georgia, to provide humanitarian aid.

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

“We expect Russia to meet its commitment to cease all military activities in Georgia and we expect all Russian forces that have entered Georgia in recent days to withdraw from that country,” Bush said in a statement in the White House Rose Garden Wednesday. “As I have made clear, Russia’s ongoing action raises serious questions about its intentions in Georgia and the region.”

Bush said he is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to meet with in France with French President Nicolas Sarkozy and then to the Georgian capitol of Tbilisi to meet with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

Bush also said Defense Secretary Robert Gates will lead the U.S. effort to provide humanitarian and medical supplies to Georgia. U.S. aircraft are on the way to deliver aid, and Navy vessels carrying aid will leave soon, he said.

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731 comments

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1 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:19am

I hope Russia blinks.

2 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:42am

Excellent humanitarianism.

Also an excellent perch, all-round.

3 Sizzlack  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:34:52am

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

4 Sizzlack  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:35:11am

re: #1 MandyManners

I hope Russia blinks.

blinks? or drinks?

5 locutus  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:00am

Sounds like its time to tell NORAD to boot up the WOPR, we may need it soon..

6 Peterus  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:03am

"Humanitarian fleet" to watch over "peace corps" ?

7 Basho  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:21am

Finally, action.

8 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:42am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

The Messiah has been heard from by way of Susan Rice, one of his 300 foreign policy advisers who is having a hissy-fit at John McCain this morning.

The entire thing is right straight out of the Berlin Airlift. (Including Russia's actions.)

9 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:52am

re: #6 Peterus

"Humanitarian fleet" to watch over "peace corps" ?

And that's how you do the UN shuffle! Boop dee boop!

10 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:36:57am

repost:

I'll see your "Peacekeeping" bullsh*t and raise you a "Humanitarian" mission.

11 trailortrash  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:02am

wolverines!

12 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:08am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

I think his handlers are probably having that issue. I still maintain that the man is an empty suit, a true product of the Chicago machine. I used to live near there; I know the funny business they play.

Back on-topic: I think sending the military is a wise idea. We will be in a good position to put up an effective defense if our fears are realized and Putin gives the order to leave none standing.

13 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:13am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

14 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:35am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

That really did make me laugh aloud.

15 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:37am

Putin was expecting Jimmy Carter.

He got Harry Truman.

16 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:48am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.


Narry a word.

17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:37:59am

Clever.

We aid our ally and get military troops on the ground. Even a small detachment can impede the Russian troops who would have to worry about a massive escalation if they engage US forces.

18 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:38:50am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

Not Winnie the Pooh?

19 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:09am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Clever.

We aid our ally and get military troops on the ground. Even a small detachment can impede the Russian troops who would have to worry about a massive escalation if they engage US forces.

We always support our humanitarian missions with boots on the ground. Even in New Orleans.

20 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:24am

They're serving Obama BIG bowls of Poi while he's vacationing...his mother taught him not to speak while his mouth is full...good move Barry, keep eating!

21 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:28am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

He's sending out his minions.

22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:34am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

His Military Advisor, Matt Damon, went on record advising Obama to "Matt Damon!"

23 BrianA  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:39am

Hasn't the Russian navy blockaded the Georgian ports? The confrontation may occur at sea.

24 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:46am

re: #4 Sizzlack

blinks? or drinks?

Is it a mean drunk?

25 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:53am

A few Javelins in the bandages would be a welcome surprise.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

26 Padre  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:39:56am

re: #5 locutus

Shall we play a game?

27 Sizzlack  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:04am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

Oye. I'd bet the only advice Clooney could give would be to pressure Putin to give him rights to make a movie out of this when all is said and done. And Clooney will cast himself as Putin of course.

28 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:07am

re: #18 Fat Jolly Penguin

Not Winnie the Pooh?

Winnie will be Sec. of Defense (Oh Brother).

29 billy hank  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:52am

Wonder if the relief supplies include replacements and spare parts?

30 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:56am

OK Putin...you're move now!

31 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:40:59am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

I lost my lust for Clooney this morning. Not even a gagged George would be allowed to eat crackers in my bed.

32 wiffersnapper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:41:15am

Glad to see Bush is still the compassionate conservative he always has been.

33 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:41:20am

re: #26 Padre

Shall we play a game?

"Strange game. The only way to win is not to play."
/ Wargames

34 big steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:02am

OT.....we are often amused or angered by Ron Paul (who is my congressman) and his supporters....but I do wish his wife the best.

Ron Paul's Wife in ICU

35 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:03am

re: #31 MandyManners

I lost my lust for Clooney this morning. Not even a gagged George would be allowed to eat crackers in my bed.


Good to know.


/:)

36 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:16am

re: #30 jorline

OK Putin...you're move now!

However, Bush said already said checkmate.

37 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:28am

re: #18 Fat Jolly Penguin

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

Not Winnie the Pooh?

Leave Obama alone, you bastards! Clooney hasn't answered Obama's email & Scarlet hasn't updated her Facebook in like days! How do you expect Obama to cope with all this foreign relations stuff without his senior advisers?

38 Sizzlack  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:40am

re: #24 MandyManners

Is it a mean drunk?

Russia is like the guy that shows up to the party late and drinks a ton in 10 minutes to try and catch up to everyone else. Then before you know it he's on the front lawn fighting three people, which is then followed by a lot of throwing up and passing out in the garage.

39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:46am

re: #19 galloping granny

We always support our humanitarian missions with boots on the ground. Even in New Orleans.

True, but there will likely be a sizeable difference in the size of the security elements for this humanitarian mission.

40 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:42:49am

re: #35 maddogg

Good to know.


/:)

I posted some stupid shit sometimes. Faulty brain/finger filter.

41 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:06am

re: #34 big steve

OT.....we are often amused or angered by Ron Paul (who is my congressman) and his supporters....but I do wish his wife the best.

Ron Paul's Wife in ICU

Ditto

42 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:23am

re: #37 Kenneth

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.


Leave Obama alone, you bastards! Clooney hasn't answered Obama's email & Scarlet hasn't updated her Facebook in like days! How do you expect Obama to cope with all this foreign relations stuff without his senior advisers?


Can't he just finish his poi?

43 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:24am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, but there will likely be a sizeable difference in the size of the security elements for this humanitarian mission.

It is not size that counts, it is quality. As every woman knows.

44 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:52am

re: #38 Sizzlack

Russia is like the guy that shows up to the party late and drinks a ton in 10 minutes to try and catch up to everyone else. Then before you know it he's on the front lawn fighting three people, which is then followed by a lot of throwing up and passing out in the garage.

And, he scares the shit out of the neigbors.

45 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:43:56am

Putin is not doing this on impulse. He wants to pull Georgia back, but I think that he is also probing us.
We could blockade Cuba in retaliation, but I think that the guys in the Kremlin would have a good laugh over that

46 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:07am

re: #38 Sizzlack

Russia is like the guy that shows up to the party late and drinks a ton in 10 minutes to try and catch up to everyone else. Then before you know it he's on the front lawn fighting three people, which is then followed by a lot of throwing up and passing out in the garage.

And he claims your garage as his own!

47 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:07am

re: #40 MandyManners

I posted some stupid shit sometimes. Faulty brain/finger filter.

You get a pass, Mandy:)

48 Rednek  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:10am

It has been 3 AM for 6 days now and The Annointed One is still asleep.

49 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:14am

re: #42 maddogg

Can't he just finish his poi?

Maybe a little Maui Wowi?

50 cutestguy[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:36am
51 Grand Poobah  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:36am

I think Russia's military is weak, they've lost the arms race, they're stuff right now is inferior while their only strength is numbers.

At the same time, I don't like these turn of events. I'm glad we're sending "humanitarian aid" but I hope that aid has a few stingers.

52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:38am

re: #43 galloping granny

It is not size that counts, it is quality. As every woman knows.

Of course having both has never hurt.

or has it?

53 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:41am

WE DON'T HATE RUSSIA, JUST THEGOVERNMENT.

WE DON'T HATE RUSSIA, JUST PUTIN.

G-d that SH*T sounds familiar.

54 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:41am

re: #36 faraway

However, Bush said already said checkmate.

I think he may have checked, checkmate will be the next move.

55 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:44:42am

The Russian army was in complete disarray 5 years ago and no matter how much money Putin throws at it you just cannot rebuild an army that fast, I hope they come to the conclusion that they are in no way ready to take on the battle tested U.S. Army.

56 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:45:34am

re: #48 Rednek

It has been 3 AM for 6 days now and The Annointed One is still asleep.

I'm surprised one of the Clintons has not issued a statement.

57 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:45:37am

re: #49 Kenneth

Maybe a little Maui Wowi?

Damn, been a looooooooong time......

58 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:45:57am

re: #4 Sizzlack

blinks? or drinks?

Maybe our humanitarian aid should include something for those poor Russian soldiers, having to fight so hard. I'm sure they would enjoy some vodka. Say a couple of bottles per soldier?

59 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:46:19am

re: #55 bulwrk

The Russian army was in complete disarray 5 years ago and no matter how much money Putin throws at it you just cannot rebuild an army that fast, I hope they come to the conclusion that they are in no way ready to take on the battle tested U.S. Army.

I don't think that is their intention. But it is their intention to intimidate their neighbors.

60 Golem Akbar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:46:25am

re: #42 maddogg

Can't he just finish his poi?

lol!

61 the lizard  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:46:48am

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

His Military Advisor, Matt Damon, went on record advising Obama to "Matt Damon!"

that my friend, was hilarious.

62 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:46:57am

re: #31 MandyManners

I lost my lust for Clooney this morning. Not even a gagged George would be allowed to eat crackers in my bed.

But that Tom Selleck....he is another matter!

63 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:47:01am

re: #55 bulwrk

The Russian army was in complete disarray 5 years ago and no matter how much money Putin throws at it you just cannot rebuild an army that fast, I hope they come to the conclusion that they are in no way ready to take on the battle tested U.S. Army.

Their equipment is a mess & the troops are underpaid & no matter how you slice it, they know that we did in Afghanistan what they could not.

64 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:47:29am

re: #15 CIA Reject

Putin was expecting Jimmy Carter.

He got Harry Truman.

He should have waited until after the election. Now, he's likely pushed more people into the McCain camp.

65 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:47:50am

re: #34 big steve

OT.....we are often amused or angered by Ron Paul (who is my congressman) and his supporters....but I do wish his wife the best.

Ron Paul's Wife in ICU

He needs our support for the quick recovery of his wife. He is my congressman as well.

66 Grand Poobah  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:47:55am

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of course having both has never hurt.

or has it?

Depends how wealthy your country is. The Byzantines had one of the largest and most effective armies in the world, problem was, their coffers took an immense beating.

67 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:13am

Koskidz blame McCain....
McCain's Georgian August Surprise?

Robert Scheer raises a very interesting question over at truthdig, namely whether Georgian lobbyist and McCain senior foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann had any role in stoking the current crisis in a misguided (one can hope) attempt to boost McCain's hawkish stature by giving him the opportunity to bluster against the good old Russian Bear.
.....
This certainly does seemed to be feeding into John McCain's angry old warmonger strategy, and we all know the GOP would give their eyeteeth to have the Soviets back to rail against (Now that was a moneymaker!).
....
....getting the American public engaged on this matter would require an honest and objective look at the situation, one which would take into account the deliberately provocative moves of the Georgian government and the web which connects this event to so many other ill-founded foreign policy ploys by the very same players.


Progressive!

68 Josephine  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:14am

This is reassuring news from President Bush.

Canada will be sending a million dollars to help with humanitarian work in Georgia. Half will go to the Red Cross, which "has made a worldwide appeal to the public for $8 million."

"The announcement of Canadian aid comes a day after Prime Minister Stephen Harper condemned Russia's incursions into Georgian territory and said it was imperative that Russia respects the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia."

69 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:20am

re: #55 bulwrk

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2... if the Russian oil money has been getting poured into the military it could be quite formidable. On the other hand the operation has been run so quickly as to avoid having to deal with US combat troops/world opinion... just hoping that where it looks like someone may have miscalculated on the number of troops needed to make the whole thing end quickly enough before any form of international aid (read US intervention) in the matter starts is a correct gut feeling...

70 CheDub  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:20am

Maybe a little OT, but this could be real interesting...

U.S.-Russia Naval Exercise May Be Canceled

71 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:48:34am

The Chosen One made a big deal in Berlin about the Berlin Airlift (without actually mentioning Truman) so it will be interesting to see his reaction to a real time use of military for humanitarian purposes.

72 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:49:10am

re: #64 Kosh's Shadow

He should have waited until after the election. Now, he's likely pushed more people into the McCain camp.

He couldn't afford to wait any longer. The world's attention was universally distracted. This was the prime moment to strike. He can deal with McCain later if he can but win this little victory before the world awakens.

I'm hearing faint echoes of Khrushchev banging his shoe upon the table, though.

73 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:49:18am

re: #56 faraway

I'm surprised one of the Clintons has not issued a statement.

If Hillary issued a statement she would be accused of trying to cut Obama out of his rightful place. She isn't ready to do that.

Bill is finally doing what ex-presidents are supposed to do - shut the hell up and play golf.

74 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:49:24am

re: #23 BrianA Yes, they've taken over the port city of Poti and are sinking Georgian ships at an apparently alarming rate.
That's one reason why we are sending not just Air Assets to deliver the humanitarian and medical aid, but are sending our Navy in to do the same thing.

Saying this could get ugly is awfully repetitive, but IF Russia should be stupid enough to try to use military force to stop our Air Force and/or Navy the military situation in Georgia will change in less than 12 hours.

75 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:07am

re: #13 maddogg

He's consulting with George Clooney, his foreign policy adviser.

Now that is scary, because it is true. These ego maniacs live in a pretend world where their charisma and intelligence can cure every problem. How do they know they are so smart? Because they tell each other constantly. This reinforcement appears to double ones IQ.

76 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:14am

re: #59 Nevergiveup

That they can do up until they see U.S. military personal on the ground in Georgia delivering aid, that should be a big flashing red light for them.

77 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:16am

re: #64 Kosh's Shadow

He should have waited until after the election. Now, he's likely pushed more people into the McCain camp.

ROVE YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD ! ! ! :-)

78 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:18am

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it all makes sense now... Bush cooked this whole thing up so McCain could look "presidential" and Obama could demonstrate just how clueless he really is. Rove, you magnificent bastard!

79 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:21am

Rush is talking about Susan Rice's asshattery now...

80 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:22am

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Good grief.

81 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:40am

I hope we're moving in some Patriots to our bases in Iraq, I doubt we were doing so previously.

82 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:41am

Bush should send Bill Clinton to Georgia to negotiate a peace.

/obamanuts heads exploding

83 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:50:42am

re: #70 CheDub

Maybe a little OT, but this could be real interesting...

U.S.-Russia Naval Exercise May Be Canceled

Not canceled, just moved.

84 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:09am

all we need now is a few J-DAM landslides on those LOC's.......

85 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:26am

re: #70 CheDub

Maybe a little OT, but this could be real interesting...

U.S.-Russia Naval Exercise May Be Canceled

It may be happening sooner than they thought and it won't be an exercise.

86 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:28am

re: #68 Josephine

SOunds like Bush is going all unilateral like again!

87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:40am

re: #66 Grand Poobah

You spoiled my not so subtle innuendo with your logical factual response!

88 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:41am

re: #76 bulwrk

That they can do up until they see U.S. military personal on the ground in Georgia delivering aid, that should be a big flashing red light for them.

I would think so. I wonder how prominent that military personal will be?

89 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:51:44am

re: #63 opnion

Their equipment is a mess & the troops are underpaid & no matter how you slice it, they know that we did in Afghanistan what they could not.

and from around the world, not next door.

90 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:52:53am

re: #71 mpax

The Chosen One made a big deal in Berlin about the Berlin Airlift (without actually mentioning Truman) so it will be interesting to see his reaction to a real time use of military for humanitarian purposes.

A brilliant stroke by the evil genius Bush!

It's the only type of military action the LLLs will support - but of ocourse they'd rather give the help to Russia.

The army isn't meals on wheels.

-Rush Limbaugh.

91 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:53:29am

Have we stopped to ask what did we do to make Russia so gosh darned angry? Did we invalidate their feelings in some way? Aren't we really to blame? Think of the children, friends.

92 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:54:01am

re: #83 maddogg

Not canceled, just moved.

And perhaps not joint.

93 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:54:13am

For anyone interested, the Ministry of Foreign Affaris of Georgia blog.

Latest entries include the transcript of President Saakashvili's press conference this morning, and a running timeline of what's happened so far.

Also the website of Lech Kaczynski, President of Poland. He's got a Georgia dedicated column down on the right side of his page.

And one more from Dancho Danchev's Blog - The Russia vs Georgia Cyber Attack.

Happy reading.

94 trailortrash  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:54:16am

rush is going off LOL

95 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:54:42am

re: #7 Basho

Finally, action.

Be careful what you wish for! This isn't some flippin' game, you know!

96 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:20am

I recommend not watching this.

97 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:27am

re: #24 MandyManners

Is it a mean drunk?

Yeah, Russia is a really mean drunk.

98 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:31am

re: #95 Russkilitlover

Be careful what you wish for! This isn't some flippin' game, you know!

"Amen" to go with the up-ding

99 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:35am

re: #88 Nevergiveup

I would think so. I wonder how prominent that military personal will be?

Since it is the mililtary delivering the aid, I would suspect that the military will be fairly prominent in the military operation of bringing in aid. We don't work for the Red Cross, after all.

100 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:55:58am

re: #93 Suihei Deloi

For anyone interested, the Ministry of Foreign Affaris of Georgia blog.

Latest entries include the transcript of President Saakashvili's press conference this morning, and a running timeline of what's happened so far.

Also the website of Lech Kaczynski, President of Poland. He's got a Georgia dedicated column down on the right side of his page.

And one more from Dancho Danchev's Blog - The Russia vs Georgia Cyber Attack.

Happy reading.

Any idea when [Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...] will come back?

101 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:04am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

The should check the bathroom that John Edwards cowered in. I hear that's a great place to curl up in a ball, rock yourself, and hum monotonously.

102 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:13am

re: #1 MandyManners

I hope Russia blinks.

I don't think they're going to.

103 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:27am

re: #95 Russkilitlover

Be careful what you wish for! This isn't some flippin' game, you know!

Quite right. I think Bush is doing exactly the right thing, but anyone who wishes for escalation hasn't seen much of the nastiness in the world.

104 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:29am

Right on President Bush!

Make sure those ships and planes are loaded for Bear.

105 pat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:44am

re: #91 Kenneth

Have we stopped to ask what did we do to make Russia so gosh darned angry? Did we invalidate their feelings in some way? Aren't we really to blame? Think of the children, friends.

Yes. The Left has. We gave them the 'wrong signals'. what you might ask, were those? We approved of democracy and anti-corruption measures. Bush the bumbler. I heard this on Fox last night from a GOP Congressman from Illinois who is endorsing Obama and The Dean of The Pepperdine Law School.

106 Rednek  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:46am

re: #91 Kenneth

...Did we invalidate their feelings in some way? ...

LOL
That has such a ring of outragous violation.

107 Mike in Georgia  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:56:56am

Are we going to have to go save Europe again?

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:57:14am

re: #80 scottishbuzzsaw

The Koskidz are furiously spinning today. They're really hoping this blows up and America is digraced. Somehow Obama is supposed to win the day.

109 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:57:29am

Russia must think this is the dead of winter.

110 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:57:55am

bbl

111 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:04am

Mr. Obama, this is your 3 a.m. wake-up call.
Mr. Obama to the white courtesy telephone please?
Bueller? Anyone?

112 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:05am

re: #69 anotherindyfilmguy

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2... if the Russian oil money has been getting poured into the military it could be quite formidable. On the other hand the operation has been run so quickly as to avoid having to deal with US combat troops/world opinion... just hoping that where it looks like someone may have miscalculated on the number of troops needed to make the whole thing end quickly enough before any form of international aid (read US intervention) in the matter starts is a correct gut feeling...

russia's big problem in "rebuilding" their military is a fundamental one. no amount of money will change the basic psychological differences in the population pool they draw their recruits from, compared to the US, nor will it change the philosophy's of employment.

the Narod will be the Narod for the foreseeable future, and they would have to rebuild their entire military apparatus from the ground up.

that's not going to happen, because the people in charge still think the same old way.

113 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:22am

I would imagine American "humanitarian aid" also includes shipments of weapons for the Georgian military.

114 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:23am

re: #94 trailortrash

The astonishing thing (to me) is how many Russian propagandists exist in this country.

115 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:23am

re: #69 anotherindyfilmguy

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2.


I am not sure what you mean by that, if you're talking about Korea we were only 8 years removed from WWII and much of the military infrastructure was still in place.We did not have to rebuild the army we just had to reconstitute it.

116 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:32am

The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang.

If South Ossetia and Abkhazia did give Georgia cause, i.e. Seperatist Forces did attack Georgia proper, different matter.

If Georgians didn't actually move, Russians are pulling what amounts to Operation Himmler.

117 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:58:34am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

The Koskidz are furiously spinning today. They're really hoping this blows up and America is digraced. Somehow Obama is supposed to win the day.

For good or ill, the day will have come and gone before Obama, a very junior US senator, will get a chance to do anything one way or the other about the day.

118 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:59:26am

re: #103 Cognito

Not escalating and beating down the aggressor will only mean death and destruction on a larger scale later on down the line when Russia invades NATO members who used to be part of the USSR...

119 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:59:53am
Richard Danzig, who served as Navy Secretary under President Clinton and is tipped to become National Security Adviser in an Obama White House, told a major foreign policy conference in Washington that the future of US strategy in the war on terrorism should follow a lesson from the pages of Winnie the Pooh, which can be shortened to: if it is causing you too much pain, try something else.

snip

“Here is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump on the back of his head behind Christopher Robin. It is, as far as he knows, the only way of coming down stairs. But sometimes he thinks there really is another way if only he could stop bumping a minute and think about it.”

JUST AS A REMINDER

120 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:59:56am

re: #104 Maximu§

Right on President Bush!

Make sure those ships and planes are loaded for Bear.

and while you're at it, email me: i hear there's a Cav Ball at your house saturday...... %-)

121 rawmuse  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 9:59:57am

re: #114 Dianna

Yes, we have many domestic enemies, and they have freedoms they could not possibly enjoy if they, themselves governed.

122 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:12am

re: #114 Dianna

The astonishing thing (to me) is how many Russian propagandists exist in this country.

Really? You have been registered here since 2004. How can this be a surprise?

123 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:22am

re: #45 opnion

We could hit Iran in retaliation - sucks to be a "proxy" when the big boys start something.

124 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:32am

re: #95 Russkilitlover

Be careful what you wish for! This isn't some flippin' game, you know!

Indeed it isn't any kind of game at all. Certainly not to the democratic government of Georgia, and certainly not to Russia or to us.
But as I said on one of these threads before, you can't always chose the time and place to "make war" and if our forces, delivering humanitarian aid, are attacked by Russia, then it won't be any kind of game, will it?

125 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:33am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

The Koskidz are furiously spinning today. They're really hoping this blows up and America is digraced. Somehow Obama is supposed to win the day.

You are a brave soul to enter the fevered swamps.

126 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:33am

Long term consequences isn't an empty threat btw.

[Link: www.ifpri.org...]

127 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:00:44am

re: #115 bulwrk

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2.


I am not sure what you mean by that, if you're talking about Korea we were only 8 years removed from WWII and much of the military infrastructure was still in place.We did not have to rebuild the army we just had to reconstitute it.

maybe he means 38-40 or so to 42-43?

128 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:04am

re: #107 Mike in Georgia

Indirectly, yes.

But it will only last so long. We'll get tired, or distracted, or lose our will, in 10, 20, 50 or 70 years, and then Russia will rush in.

Sorry.

129 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:10am

re: #120 redc1c4

and while you're at it, email me: i hear there's a Cav Ball at your house saturday...... %-)

You wanna come over?

It starts at 3:00...please tell me how to email someone in here.

130 Colin Nelson  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:12am

#36. Neither checkmate nor check yet. However, a strong counterattack by Pres. Bush.

131 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:21am

re: #58 Kosh's Shadow

Maybe our humanitarian aid should include something for those poor Russian soldiers, having to fight so hard. I'm sure they would enjoy some vodka. Say a couple of bottles per soldier?

Perhaps the best defense against the Red Army would be to preposition warehouses full of vodka near the borders.

132 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:22am

re: #118 anotherindyfilmguy

Yes, of course. Which is why I called it "exactly the right thing."

133 rupert  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:24am

re: #70 CheDub

US-Russia Naval Excercise - Might it be upgrade to US -Russian Standoff?

134 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:31am

re: #100 MandyManners

I didn't know about that one, but I was able to surf to it fine just now. I got my original links from a post in Beyond the Beyond here.

Did anyone manage to put the video on YouTube of Georgia kicking Russia's @ss in Olympic Judo last night?

135 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:54am

re: #118 anotherindyfilmguy

Not escalating and beating down the aggressor will only mean death and destruction on a larger scale later on down the line when Russia invades NATO members who used to be part of the USSR...

The key lesson of history.

Aggression: pay now or pay much more later.

136 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:01:59am

re: #107 Mike in Georgia

Are we going to have to go save Europe again?

Maybe. We'll see how things turn out.

137 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:02:36am

re: #126 Thanos

Long term consequences isn't an empty threat btw.

[Link: www.ifpri.org...]

There was a tiny little report somewhere just before this blew up that Russia had just instituted new import and export agricultural controls ala the old Soviet style 5 year plans.

138 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:02:42am

re: #127 redc1c4

Oh you're right I misread it, I still don't think you can compare the two.

139 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:03am

re: #115 bulwrk

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2.


I am not sure what you mean by that, if you're talking about Korea we were only 8 years removed from WWII and much of the military infrastructure was still in place.We did not have to rebuild the army we just had to reconstitute it.

We had to basically rebuild the army to fight WWII. That's what I think he means.

140 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:13am

re: #129 Maximu§

You wanna come over?

It starts at 3:00...please tell me how to email someone in here.

You going to have those Chinese girl divers there!

141 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:30am

re: #137 galloping granny

There was a tiny little report somewhere just before this blew up that Russia had just instituted new import and export agricultural controls ala the old Soviet style 5 year plans.

[Link: www.lol.org.ua...]

142 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:33am

re: #115 bulwrk

I meant rebuild. We gutted the military after WWI ended and had to expand rapidly to deal with WWII.

As for Russia pouring money in to rebuild the military, most of the problems in the military were poverty induced. Pay the troops enough that they don't have to rob new recruits of uniforms and clamp down on corruption/build up morale/train a lot/upkeep-replace equipment and make them feel appreciated are what they really needed to bring troops around to combat ready from barely surviving the winters.

143 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:40am

re: #105 pat

That would be this guy:

The third "Republican for Obama" after Ms. Hauser and Mr. Chafee — and the only other one who participated in the call — was a former congressman from Iowa, James Leach. Mr. Leach took to the House floor in 2004 to deliver a speech titled "The Case for Restraint in Iran," warning against American or Israeli attacks on the mullahs's nuclear facilities. "It is hard to believe that outside military intervention would lead to anything except greater ensconcement of authoritarian mullah rule," Mr. Leach said, calling instead for America to agree to a comprehensive nuclear test ban. In 2006, when the House voted 397 to 21 to pass the Iran Freedom Support Act that toughened sanctions on Tehran, Mr. Leach was one of the 21 congressmen who opposed it.

[Link: www.nysun.com...]

144 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:03:59am

re: #81 itellu3times

I hope we're moving in some Patriots to our bases in Iraq, I doubt we were doing so previously.

Not a topic for discussion. Loose lips sink ships and all.

145 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:04:51am

re: #139 Honorary Yooper

We had to basically rebuild the army to fight WWII. That's what I think he means.

We had some big advantages though. Many of the training centers we had built to handle WWI were still standing. (We have since dismantled every single one of them and even sold off most of the land involved.)

146 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:04:55am

re: #144 CommonCents

Ditto.

147 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:05:43am

re: #128 Dianna

We got so tired of the cold war that thirty something years after it started the soviet union collapsed and we declared victory/peace dividend time...

148 cod_is_great  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:05:51am

Like a true bully, Russia always backs down.

149 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:20am

Dkos front page...
Adviser's Firm Pockets $$ While Counseling McCain on Georgia

John McCain and his lackeys have taken being in someone's pocket to a whole new level. Heck, look at the cross-marketing campaign they've got going, with Georgian President Saakashvilli giving their man a personal shout-out when the cameras turn his way.

Beware the Georgian Lobby!

150 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:30am

Slightly OT; A women at our denomination's "Peace Blog" announced the coming of that horrible "Arlington" exhibit which depicts all the brave, fallen servicemen and women as victims in "Bush's War". I am going to respond, but wanted some feedback here for further ammunition. I'm going to ask her if they wouldn't be of better service protesting outside the Russian embassy and work on the next war.

151 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:38am

re: #148 cod_is_great

Like a true bully, Russia always backs down.

I think the Poles, the Czechs, and the Germans would strongly disagree with that statement.

152 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:44am

re: #116 kuffar "The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang."

Why, how kind of you to treat another democracy (Georgia that is) that way.
Do you think the Russians "just happened" to have ALL of those tank columns, mechanized infantry and heavy artillery (not to mention their Air Force which - as per Russian military thinking - is bombing the crap out of CIVILIANS) sitting in place ready to invade Georgia?

Please, no apologists for Russia out here, ok?

153 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:48am

A basketfull of Russian designed EFP's confiscated in Iraq and delivered thru Iran would work nicely on the road to S. Ossetia right about now.

154 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:06:58am

re: #120 redc1c4

email sent

155 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:07:33am

Russia also reported nearly a 12 percent inflation rate recently, this whole action might be to distract their public from the pressing problems at home.

156 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:07:42am

re: #140 Big Steve

You going to have those Chinese girl divers there!


Well its a pool party....sure why not!

157 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:08:36am

re: #114 Dianna Amen to that one (see my #152)

158 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:08:40am

re: #143 seekeroftruth

Ah, from the school of "Fighting back only makes it worse."

159 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:08:50am

re: #114 Dianna

The astonishing thing (to me) is how many Russian propagandists exist in this country.

Look at the average Leftist/Dem and you will see an apologist/propagandist. Now how many of those do we have?

160 cod_is_great  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:08:58am

re: #151 galloping granny

It took an invasion for Russia to start fighting Hitler.

161 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:09:01am

I am being barraged with emails attacking "La Russophobe," by the way, and screaming that I'm being unfair to the Discovery Institute. They're angry and raging that I've posted La Russophobe's article connecting the DI's Russia Blog with the "Russia Today" propaganda channel.

There's something very very stinky going on here. They may think they're going to intimidate me into shying away from the topic with these tactics, but it's achieving exactly the opposite.

162 chitown55  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:09:12am

re: #69 anotherindyfilmguy

WW2 was a different game, was more about boots on the ground, supply of steel, tanks, how many bombs you could get in the air. I don't think money alone would erase the technological deficit that Russia faces today.

That being said, I'd rather not test it, and I'd hate to be wrong.

163 rawmuse  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:09:49am

re: #150 Spenser (with an S)

Make a list of all the Democrats who voted for "Bush's War". It will be a long list.

164 saberry0530  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:09:50am

re: #161 Charles

Thread worthy?

165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:07am

re: #158 Silhouette

Ah, from the school of "Fighting back only makes it worse."

If you simply give them what they want, whenever they want it, then there would never be any fighting.

Surely you can see that?

/

166 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:22am

re: #161 Charles

You know you're over the target when you start getting flak.

167 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:24am

re: #155 Thanos

Economic mess at home = military adventurism abroad. Nothing brings together the Russians like a good war.

I'm sure the left will recognize that aforementioned statement. Because they always trot it out when dealing with the US and its defense. Here, it stings all the more since it is true. The Russians weren't attacked, and invaded Georgia claiming to protect the rights of the South Ossetians. Yet, they're doing more than protecting the South Ossetians, but pushing right to destroying the Georgian government and taking out Georgian towns all over the place.

168 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:44am

re: #152 realwest

"The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang."

Why, how kind of you to treat another democracy (Georgia that is) that way.
Do you think the Russians "just happened" to have ALL of those tank columns, mechanized infantry and heavy artillery (not to mention their Air Force which - as per Russian military thinking - is bombing the crap out of CIVILIANS) sitting in place ready to invade Georgia?

Please, no apologists for Russia out here, ok?

Amen, Real. I asked that question yesterday about whether or not the US knew those tanks were in place and if they had informed Georgia. I would still like to know the answer to that one.

169 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:46am

re: #161 Charles

I am being barraged with emails attacking "La Russophobe," by the way, and screaming that I'm being unfair to the Discovery Institute. They're angry and raging that I've posted La Russophobe's article connecting the DI's Russia Blog with the "Russia Today" propaganda channel.

There's something very very stinky going on here. They may think they're going to intimidate me into shying away from the topic with these tactics, but it's achieving exactly the opposite.

I guess my question here, Charles, is this: Is the Discovery Institute a "scientific" body whose main interest revolves around evolution or are they a political agency? It would seem to me that you can't really be both.

170 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:50am

re: #19 galloping granny

We always support our humanitarian missions with boots on the ground. Even in New Orleans.

New Orleans is more dangerous than Georgia, even with the Russian soldiers running around.

171 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:10:56am

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If you simply give them what they want, whenever they want it, then there would never be any fighting.

Surely you can see that?

/

I can't see that and don't call me Shirley.

/Hey, SOMEBODY had to say it!

172 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:13am

re: #91 Kenneth

Have we stopped to ask what did we do to make Russia so gosh darned angry? Did we invalidate their feelings in some way? Aren't we really to blame? Think of the children, friends.

We keep importing all their good looking women. And I say; NEVER STOP!

173 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:18am

re: #142 anotherindyfilmguy

But what you just described is what makes it difficult, during WWII Americans were highly motivated and focused all of our industrial might in the cause. That does not compare a better analogy would be how long did it take us to rebuild a neglected and demoralized military after Vietnam.

174 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:29am

re: #137 galloping granny And of course we all know how the Soviet's great 5 year plans worked out, don't we?

175 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:34am

re: #162 chitown55

Money alone was not all that was needed or the Russians to help their military, but imo it is a key component without which the rest couldn't get off the ground without.

176 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:45am

As I've been noting, the US has limited options, but that doesn't mean that it must sit back and do nothing. The humanitarian aid is one step. There are others.

177 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:45am

re: #27 Sizzlack

Oye. I'd bet the only advice Clooney could give would be to pressure Putin to give him rights to make a movie out of this when all is said and done. And Clooney will cast himself as Putin of course.

The problem is that C. Looney is only able to portray two kinds of characters: Lovable rogue and driven crusader. Which would be Putin? No, I think C. Looney would have to make up a character that is torn between his duty and the Georgian woman he loves.

/do I have to?

178 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:11:47am

re: #144 CommonCents

Not a topic for discussion. Loose lips sink ships and all.

Understood, lots of stuff I don't speculate about online even though I'm Joe Nobody, but this one was low enough on the hey-what-about list to mention on a blog. And Patriots travel fast.

Just looking at maps ...

179 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:12:10am

re: #160 cod_is_great

It took an invasion for Russia to start fighting Hitler.

Certainly that is true. But when they did, they did not stop. And they would not have stopped when they did if they had not been facing the US Army.

180 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:12:13am

re: #161 Charles

I still can't wrap my head around the DI connection with Soviet style propagandists. It's surreal.

181 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:12:13am

re: #161 Charles
Good on you Charles!
Can we help in any way?

182 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:12:17am

re: #158 Silhouette

Ah, from the school of "Fighting back only makes it worse."

Yup. More RINO than Republican. And certainly not the "prominent " Republicans that the Financial Times is promoting.

183 Golem Akbar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:13:00am

re: #172 maddogg

We keep importing all their good looking women. And I say; NEVER STOP!


I notice that most of the Russian women are Ukrainians. hmmmm

184 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:13:04am

re: #161 Charles

Share?

185 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:13:10am

Minuteman missile might be visible in pre-dawn launch

and

Unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile was successfully launched From Calif. Base.

The ICBM was launched at 1:01 a.m. PDT and its three unarmed re-entry vehicles traveled about 4,220 miles over the Pacific Ocean to targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands, an Air Force statement said.

I am sure this was planned well in advance of the current confrontation with Russia, but it still send a powerful message.

186 cod_is_great  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:13:16am

re: #172 maddogg

Russian women are more expensive to keep up than the presidential yacht.

187 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:13:28am

re: #166 Killgore Trout

You know you're over the target when you start getting flak.

It's a cat blog now, you know you're getting close when they cough up a hair ball on you.

188 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:14:22am

re: #152 realwest

"The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang."

Why, how kind of you to treat another democracy (Georgia that is) that way.
Do you think the Russians "just happened" to have ALL of those tank columns, mechanized infantry and heavy artillery (not to mention their Air Force which - as per Russian military thinking - is bombing the crap out of CIVILIANS) sitting in place ready to invade Georgia?

Please, no apologists for Russia out here, ok?

There has also been an ongoing cyber war against Georgian interests and government servers by Russian hackers for quite some time before the invasion. This invasion was planned for a long time by Putin.

189 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:14:35am

re: #180 funky chicken

It's surreal.

There's a lot of that going around lately.

190 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:15:05am

Look at what's going on at the DI's Russia Blog -- a non-stop flood of pro-Russian propaganda.

[Link: www.russiablog.org...]

191 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:15:21am

re: #161 Charles

Turned on Rush for five minutes, heard some Russian screaming at Rush, and Rush screaming back, ... and turned it off, neither seemed to be making a lick of sense.

And was that the Russian ambassador to the US or UN on Charly Rose last night, going on about the Russian peacekeepers? Only listened to a little, but Rose seemed to be grinding him back pretty hard, for Rose.

The neo-Soviets are in full propaganda mode, that example of the Pravda response to Max Boot was the crudest stuff I've seen in decades.

Yes, there is something going on.

192 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:15:35am

re: #70 CheDub

Maybe a little OT, but this could be real interesting...

U.S.-Russia Naval Exercise May Be Canceled

Are you kidding me. The exercise is called FRUKUS.

193 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:15:44am

At the start of this I questioned if Georgia had provoked the Russian Bear, but after reading VDH's article in here yesterday, theres no question, Russia is on the move and needs to be stopped.

I just hope the EU has the Balls to back us up.

194 cod_is_great  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:15:54am

re: #179 galloping granny

"they would not have stopped when they did if they had not been facing the US Army."
Hence my point.

195 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:16:22am

re: #161 Charles

I am being barraged with emails attacking "La Russophobe," by the way, and screaming that I'm being unfair to the Discovery Institute. They're angry and raging that I've posted La Russophobe's article connecting the DI's Russia Blog with the "Russia Today" propaganda channel.

There's something very very stinky going on here. They may think they're going to intimidate me into shying away from the topic with these tactics, but it's achieving exactly the opposite.

I've also noticed several posters here pulling similar things here. Yawning at threads and saying that we need to drop things and move on.

I think this is a pretty coordinated effort.

196 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:16:26am

re: #56 faraway

I'm surprised one of the Clintons has not issued a statement.

Just waiting for after the fact, so they can say exactly the correct thing.

197 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:16:27am

re: #183 Golem Akbar

I notice that most of the Russian women are Ukrainians. hmmmm


Yes, they are doing something right there......

198 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:16:34am

re: #187 jcm

Sorry for going off topic. This will steer the conversation in the right direction.

199 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:01am

re: #185 Bubblehead II

Minuteman missile might be visible in pre-dawn launch

and

Unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile was successfully launched From Calif. Base.

The ICBM was launched at 1:01 a.m. PDT and its three unarmed re-entry vehicles traveled about 4,220 miles over the Pacific Ocean to targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands, an Air Force statement said.

I am sure this was planned well in advance of the current confrontation with Russia, but it still send a powerful message.

Heh heh heheheheheh. That makes me smile.

200 SoftS  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:21am

Yesss!
God bless America!
God bless president Bush!

Thanks from Latvia a Georgia ally. Instead of Georgia might been Latvia or other country - so thanks to U.S.

201 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:25am

re: #161 Charles

I am being barraged with emails attacking "La Russophobe," by the way, and screaming that I'm being unfair to the Discovery Institute. They're angry and raging that I've posted La Russophobe's article connecting the DI's Russia Blog with the "Russia Today" propaganda channel.

There's something very very stinky going on here. They may think they're going to intimidate me into shying away from the topic with these tactics, but it's achieving exactly the opposite.

They don't know you very well, do they?

202 pegcity  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:28am

re: #193 Maximu§

I just hope the EU has the Balls to back us up.

Thats a good one, i needed a good laugh

203 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:47am

It's 3 AM and Lord Obama is vacationing in Hawaii.

204 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:17:57am

I'm listening to Bush on C-SPAN giving his earlier pronouncement. There is zero hesitation in his cadence and absolute, direct resolve in his pronouncements. He means what he says.

Rice is meeting with Sarkozy before going onto Tblisi in order to coordinate a unified message with France leading the cease-fire effort. She will give a presser at 1500 hours EST on C-SPAN.

If Russia doesn't stop and pull back, IMHO, Ukraine should be admitted into NATO tomorrow. 50,000,000 Ukrainians ready to kick ass would be a nice chess move.

205 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:18:13am

re: #180 funky chicken

I still can't wrap my head around the DI connection with Soviet style propagandists. It's surreal.

No less surreal than the DI connection with radical Islamists. The DI is being used as a useful idiot by the experts in the field. The enemy of my enemy is definitely still an enemy of me when it comes to radical Islam and Russian Imperialism.

206 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:18:37am

re: #173 bulwrk

You're absolutely correct. That's a much, much better analogy.

207 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:18:47am

re: #186 cod_is_great

Russian women are more expensive to keep up than the presidential yacht.

And the ride is much more turbulent.

208 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:18:48am

re: #190 Charles
Sorry Charles, I've no intention of going over there.
I'm more than happy to take your word for it.

209 Macker  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:01am

re: #167 lawhawk

Economic mess at home = military adventurism abroad. Nothing brings together the Russians like a good war.

I'm sure the left will recognize that aforementioned statement. Because they always trot it out when dealing with the US and its defense. Here, it stings all the more since it is true. The Russians weren't attacked, and invaded Georgia claiming to protect the rights of the South Ossetians Sudetens of Russian Origin. Yet, they're doing more than protecting the South Ossetians Sudetens of Russian Origin, but pushing right to destroying the Georgian government and taking out Georgian towns all over the place.

There, fixed that for ya!

210 opnion  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:10am

Isn't it convenient that the House & Senate are on recess?
You just know that Dem leadership does not waant to comment.
They want to see how events play out & more than anything where public opnion is.
If they can turn this to political advantage they will, national welfare be damned.

211 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:27am

Condi is meeting with France.

France will be assisting the Russians in waving the white flag.

/ couldn't resist

212 Clubsec  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:45am

I hope they send a truck load of Javelin missiles and some anti-tank gunners. This would help with the Russian tank infestation they are experiencing in that part of the world.
As we say in the missile business: "Shoot the missiles, we'll make more."

213 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:47am

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

214 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:19:54am

"the risk of making a fetish of democracy promotion"

re: #190 Charles

So it's a fetish now?! Who the hell are these people!

215 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:20:01am

re: #152 realwest

Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified. Sorry. Just because it is a democracy doesn't give them a free pass.

Is it Russian apologism to ask 'Who started this?"

216 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:20:34am

re: #200 SoftS

Yesss!
God bless America!
God bless president Bush!

Thanks from Latvia a Georgia ally. Instead of Georgia might been Latvia or other country - so thanks to U.S.

((((((SoftS))))))

217 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:20:50am

re: #195 Mars Needs Neocons Indeed, very coordinated. I have this really BAD feeling that there is a whole lot more going on with and in this situation than we know about right now.

218 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:21:36am

re: #213 Charles

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

Not everyone is interested in the Russia story.

219 Iron Fist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:22:00am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

The L³eft win when America loses. This is the equation that they are operating on, and that we should judge their actions based on. They want this to blow up and America to be disgraced.

Then Obama wins. At least in their minds. I don't think it will work out that way in practice.

220 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:22:16am

re: #213 Charles

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

I've had the east coast version on all morning. They are giving the Georgian situation about 50% of the coverage.

/I do wish they would focus less on missing children. Particularly Greta. She seems to focus on nothing at all ever other than missing white girls.

221 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:22:28am

I'm too old for all this excitement.......

I am also praying that Puta has no stones for a bold response.

I am not too old to squeeze slowly without breathing however!

222 cod_is_great  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:22:55am

re: #207 Ford_Prefect

A friend of mine was trying to pick up a Russian chick in a bar. He almost sealed the deal until she found out he drove a Ford Ranger.

223 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:23:04am

re: #213 Charles

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

A good example of why I stopped watching FNC a while back. The rest of the "news" channels or the alphabet networks was decades ago.

224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:23:09am

re: #193 Maximu§

I just hope the EU has the Balls to back us up.

Hello, you must be new here. We call this planet Earth.

225 Spider Mensch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:23:14am

The first US C-17 has landed in Tblisi...no link yet...

226 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:23:30am

re: #213 Charles

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

Who?

227 pegcity  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:13am

re: #220 galloping granny

One pretty white girl to the MSM is equal to a million dead Africans.

228 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:23am

re: #225 Spider Mensch

The first US C-17 has landed in Tblisi...no link yet...

Where are you hearing this, at least.

229 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:28am

re: #213 Charles

Meanwhile, as the world teeters on the brink of war, Fox News is pushing their non-stop coverage of Caylee Anthony.

Disgusting.

They've got a lady in Moscow and a male reporter in Georgia. Yet, we get polluted with human- interest stories. Is their daytime viewer demographic that shallow? (Ize gonna watch muh stories afore Ize goze tah 7-11 for sum cigarettes...)?

230 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:34am

re: #215 kuffar

Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified. Sorry. Just because it is a democracy doesn't give them a free pass.

Is it Russian apologism to ask 'Who started this?"

Would the Americans have been justified in invading Iraq and eliminating Saddam Hussein simply because he took over Kuwait back in 1991? Supposing that Georgia did initiate the whole kerfluffle, it's an analogous situation. In any event, that does not give Russia any latitude to invade a sovereign country, much less one that poses no active threat to Russia (as opposed to Iraq, whose ties to terrorism and dangerous weapons are well-documented).

231 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:34am
Bush said he is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to meet with in France with French President Nicolas Sarkozy

Oh good, I feel so much better now.

232 Catttt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:24:36am

re: #3 Sizzlack

This entire thing is getting so damn aggravating. And the Messiah is still no where to be found/seen/heard from.

He must be sh**ing a brick right now trying to figure out how to deal with this.

Lol.

Better he should evacuate masonic building material now, so that the USA can see how hapless he is and not vote him into office.

233 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:11am

re: #222 cod_is_great

A friend of mine was trying to pick up a Russian chick in a bar. He almost sealed the deal until she found out he drove a Ford Ranger.

Gotta love capitalism. It is all about supply and demand. Few hot Russian women, lots of guys with Ford Rangers.

234 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:20am

re: #215 kuffar

Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified. Sorry. Just because it is a democracy doesn't give them a free pass.

Is it Russian apologism to ask 'Who started this?"

Kind of late for it as the situation between Russia and Georgia has been going on for several years now and Russia has made specific threats to grind into dust any of their former satellite countries that considered hosting the US missile shield.

The only people who seem to be asking that question are those too lazy to look up the history.

And then there is the size difference - Mother Russia versus a little country the size of Vermont? Do you really have any questions about who the aggressor might be?

235 pegcity  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:24am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

In canada they had a CBC story last night on a beluga whale for 10 minutes.

236 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:30am

re: #215 kuffar It is if it isn't accompanied by mentioning the ASTOUNDING coincidence that Russia had ALL THOSE TANKS and MECHANIZED INFANTRY and ARTILLERY and that NAVAL Squadron just sitting right on the border with Georgia.

237 misfit138  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:41am

#119

Eff Richard...we need Glenn!

[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

238 Spider Mensch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:44am

re: #228 Silhouette

Where are you hearing this, at least.


Fox website headline...

239 cod_is_great[deleted]  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:25:46am
240 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:18am

re: #200 SoftS


Thanks from Latvia a Georgia ally. Instead of Georgia might been Latvia or other country - so thanks to U.S.

Well put, and thanks. All of our Baltic friends have good reason for concern, as well as the Moldovans, Armenians and Azerbaijanis. Russia is interested in tidying up its imperial hem, and Georgia happened to have drawn the short straw. Gazprom didn't have an ownership stake in that fat oil pipeline before, but I bet it will now. Hope they choke.

241 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:23am

re: #116 kuffar

The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang.

If South Ossetia and Abkhazia did give Georgia cause, i.e. Seperatist Forces did attack Georgia proper, different matter.

If Georgians didn't actually move, Russians are pulling what amounts to Operation Himmler.

Russia has a long history of using the agent provocateur, to start shit like this. Give them "plausible deniablity" so to speak. Russian has been stirring the Ossetia pot for for a while. This little expedition into Georgia wasn't just throw together in response to Georgia, it's been in the works waiting for the excuse to go.

242 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:26am

re: #218 MandyManners

Not everyone is interested in the Russia story.

Which is a bit worrisome since this is has potential to be a lot more due to the players involved. I'd say the Georgia-Russia situation is far more important on the world stage now than almost anything else.

243 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:31am

It is week 3 of the GOP folks holding the fort (in our US Capitol) in their revolt against Pelosi's dereliction of duty re: drilling here & now.

Energy Supply = National Security.

244 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:38am

First Russian learned in high school freshman russian language class way back in 1974

руки вверх - Hands Up.

245 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:42am

re: #227 pegcity

One pretty white girl to the MSM is equal to a million dead Africans.

Bullshit. 500,000 tops.

246 Spider Mensch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:26:50am

re: #238 Spider Mensch

Fox website headline...


here...
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

247 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:00am

What is the common goal of the Disco Institute and Soviet propagandists? Who's funding whom? And why? The relationship is undeniable but all the explanations I can think of are far fetched. Anyone have any ideas?

248 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:00am

re: #122 Ford_Prefect

Whenever it appears here - or on Limbaugh - it surprises me.

249 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:01am

re: #114 Dianna

The astonishing thing (to me) is how many Russian propagandists exist in this country.

You mean like the NY Slimes, most college faculty, etc.?

250 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:21am

re: #225 Spider Mensch

The first US C-17 has landed in Tblisi...no link yet...

Wow. That was quick.

251 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:40am

re: #229 Sol Roth

They've got a lady in Moscow and a male reporter in Georgia. Yet, we get polluted with human- interest stories. Is their daytime viewer demographic that shallow? (Ize gonna watch muh stories afore Ize goze tah 7-11 for sum cigarettes...)?

My screen is showing a SnS in the top right corner with a feed from Georgia. And the ticker. Perhaps there simply is nothing new to say right this second.

252 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:27:46am

President Bush demands Russia get out of Georgia

By MATTHEW LEE – 11 minutes ago


A U.S. C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies landed in Georgia on Wednesday, and Bush said that Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through.

253 maddogg  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:03am

re: #229 Sol Roth


Is their daytime viewer demographic that shallow?

Have you ever watched daytime TV? The answer is yup.

254 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:03am

rush has a great edwards spoof going

255 saberry0530  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:06am

re: #244 Big Steve

First Russian learned in high school freshman russian language class way back in 1974

руки вверх - Hands Up.

Thought that was said with a Fwench accent?

256 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:17am

re: #250 Occasional Reader

Wow. That was quick.

It was in route before GWB gave the speech.

257 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:24am

Who the hell is Caylee Anthony?

258 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:28:33am

re: #185 Bubblehead II

Minuteman missile might be visible in pre-dawn launch

and

Unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile was successfully launched From Calif. Base.

The ICBM was launched at 1:01 a.m. PDT and its three unarmed re-entry vehicles traveled about 4,220 miles over the Pacific Ocean to targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands, an Air Force statement said.

I am sure this was planned well in advance of the current confrontation with Russia, but it still send a powerful message.

One of the bullet points being, "We don't need to photoshop."

259 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:04am

You all need to quit worrying, the International Court of Justice in Hague is putting together a strong letter of condemnation.

260 Tigger2005  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:20am

I hope they stamp "humanitarian aid" on lots of boxes of Stingers and anti-tank weapons.

261 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:33am

re: #255 saberry0530

Thought that was said with a Fwench accent?

No the French version is:
Не блин - Don't shoot

262 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:36am

re: #250 Occasional Reader

Wow. That was quick.

I think that's part of the message: we can reach your troops faster than you can.

263 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:36am

The stick strikes swiftly around here. Word to the wise.

264 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:37am

We just have to talk with them... Understand their feelings and hope that they will change and see the light...

It's not like Russia really wants to bring Georiga back under its empire... Or Ukraine... Come on now, don't be silly... That notion is as silly as the notion of terrorism being real...

/

265 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:38am

re: #259 Maximu§

You all need to quit worrying, the International Court of Justice in Hague is putting together a strong letter of condemnation.

Wappner would be more frightening.

266 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:39am

WSJ nails it:

First Yukos, Then Georgia

Now the world is getting an idea of what a "war for oil" really looks like. Few in the West appreciate the degree to which Vladimir Putin and the Soviet, er, Russian, elite subscribe to a prewar view of power relations and national greatness. Their view is not based on self-reproducing institutions and innovation and the power of trade, but on territory and resources -- lebensraum, as one of their intellectual progenitors called it.

Whatever the pretexts and emotional resonances, the Republic of Georgia, transit territory for two important energy pipelines, was also a challenge to Mr. Putin's pursuit of power through control of energy supplies, especially for home heating, to Western Europe.

Western governments and Western oil executives have played an unwise role in Mr. Putin's plan. No amount of contract abrogation, outright seizure of property or subsidiary mayhem by Russian authorities seems able to dissuade them from throwing good money after bad in pursuit of Russian resources. Western minority shareholders in Yukos were wiped out with nary a peep when the Russian government seized the oil company on tax charges. There's been virtually no official pushback as environmental offenses were alleged as a reason to squeeze Western partners out of various drilling and pipeline projects after billions of dollars were committed.

Indeed, with what breezy confidence Mr. Putin must have turned Western oil companies into his political punching bags, knowing that back home Western politicians (Nancy Pelosi, Byron Dorgan, Dick Durbin, etc.) were doing exactly the same in pursuit of their own narrow and shortsighted political quests.

267 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:29:51am

re: #247 Killgore Trout

My feeling is that it's all funded - and they don't need to pay much - by the Russians. FSB surely didn't let all the KGB's contacts lapse.

268 Partisan  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:13am

re: #215 kuffar

"Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified."

Did Georgia attack anything within Russia?

269 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:23am

re: #248 Dianna

Whenever it appears here - or on Limbaugh - it surprises me.

I guess that speaks for how much of a 'glass half full' person you are. I envy that.

270 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:27am

Obama has a real dilemma.

He must appear to say the opposite of McCain and Bush, but the opposite of what they are saying is so clearly wrong and/or weak to any voter watching. He can't come out in support of Russia. He can't appeal to the UN (again- there is only so much collassal ignorance of UNSC membership that the MSM can ignore for him). And he can't keep talking about how both sides are equally wrong.

What a pickle he is in, trying to look presidential when being presidential actually requires knowledge, decision, and leadership instead of platitudes and assurances of oceans receding and planets healing.

271 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:27am

re: #243 alegrias

It is week 3 of the GOP folks holding the fort (in our US Capitol) in their revolt against Pelosi's dereliction of duty re: drilling here & now.

Energy Supply = National Security.

And this is a perfect illustration of that. If the Russians take that pipeline then they have monopoly control over nearly all of the oil and gas supply into Europe. He who owns a monopoly control on the energy supply to Europe controls Europe unequivocally.

272 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:27am

re: #265 Kosh's Shadow

Wappner would be more frightening.

Judge Judy

273 Spider Mensch  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:30:48am

another interesting bit of info off of ynet, very interesting..
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

274 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:31:19am

More ripple effects: Poland, US ready for more missile defense talks.

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Polish and U.S. negotiators begin further talks Wednesday on a proposed U.S. missile defense system, a meeting where the fighting between Russia and Georgia was certain to loom large.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Tuesday the attacks in Georgia justified Poland's demand for additional security guarantees if it accepts a U.S. installation.

275 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:31:22am

re: #243 alegrias

It is week 3 of the GOP folks holding the fort (in our US Capitol) in their revolt against Pelosi's dereliction of duty re: drilling here & now.

Energy Supply = National Security.

Amazingly I don't hear about this on the nightly news...

276 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:31:28am

I've been wondering about those test ICBM launches. Thor via ICBM is completely possible.

277 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:31:40am

re: #64 Kosh's Shadow

He should have waited until after the election. Now, he's likely pushed more people into the McCain camp.


Uh-oh!
I feel a KosKommie "I question the timing" moment coming on.

278 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:31:53am

re: #261 Big Steve

No the French version is:
Не блин - Don't shoot

What was that one phrase they said all tourists to Russia should learn? Oh yes,

"Why am I being arrested?"
279 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:01am

re: #259 Maximu§

You all need to quit worrying, the International Court of Justice in Hague is putting together a strong letter of condemnation.

Isn't that with Superman and Wonder Woman?

280 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:02am

There's something about August in the Balkans...

281 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:08am
"You have heard the statement by the US president that the United States is starting a military-humanitarian operation in Georgia," Saakashvili said in a television address. "It means that Georgian ports and airports will be taken under the control of the US defense ministry in order to conduct humanitarian and other missions.


ynet

282 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:14am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

Stop with the Hyperbole. I said a response is justified, not necessarily this one. And even then, Regime change may very well be justified if there are a series of incidents ala Saddam.

I heard that Shaka guy (before the Russians 'responded') was sending troops into South Ossetia because they had taken attacks from Ossetia, but I can't track down reports that coroborate what he says.

I just wanna know, what the frak is going on.

283 Tigger2005  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:40am

By the way, I love this move by Bush and I support it wholeheartedly. American boots and military equipment on the ground, but to deliver humanitarian aid...what are the Russkis supposed to say? And the Georgians will see American troops and the American flag on their soil. This is Bush's Berlin airlift. Where can I send my money?

284 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:43am

re: #268 Partisan

"Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified."

Did Georgia attack anything within Russia?

Yup Georgia is a real threat to Soviet Russia, what with all of 7, yup count em, 7 battle tanks. Yeah, with over 3000 battle tanks, Soviet Russia really had alot to fear?

285 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:32:54am

Russia wasn't provoked. Russia had been stoking and provoking the South Ossetians in Georgia for a while. They were sabotaging Georgian federation. Georgia finally got fed up. Can't blame 'em.

286 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:18am

re: #283 Tigger2005

This is Bush's Berlin airlift. Where can I send my money?


johnmccain.com

287 Grand Poobah  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:29am

re: #69 anotherindyfilmguy

The US rebuilt it's military in a very short time in WW2... if the Russian oil money has been getting poured into the military it could be quite formidable. On the other hand the operation has been run so quickly as to avoid having to deal with US combat troops/world opinion... just hoping that where it looks like someone may have miscalculated on the number of troops needed to make the whole thing end quickly enough before any form of international aid (read US intervention) in the matter starts is a correct gut feeling...

It's not just "rebuilding" the army. You can't rebuild an army in even 5 years, it's the constant development and testing of hardware; that's why we've yet to have F-35 aircraft come into service, and it's doubtful if they will ever arrive in service. The Russian army included little troop transports with machine guns, reminiscent of Mussolini's armored car folly; of course the news media doesn't pick up on that, and labels everything a "tank" because if it has wheels and has a machine gun, it must be a tank.

At any rate, in this case, it's not just that, but the whole lack luster performance of the Russian army as a whole.

288 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:32am

re: #278 CIA Reject

Почему у меня подверг& #1085;уться аресту

289 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:33am

re: #249 Kosh's Shadow

Incorrect - free range marxists (of whom there are thousands) are not identical with Russian propagandists.

The popularity of the notion of a "multilateral" world is a demonstration of the weak-mindedness of the free-range marxists, as is the religion of environmentalism. This Russian propaganda is a different animal. Some of it's pure reflex and moral equivalence, but the rest of it? The lies about time line, the drumbeat of blame the Georgians?

That's different.

290 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:48am

re: #227 pegcity

I've noticed a tendency of fox to spotlight what is a local news item to national level and obsess on it to a point of ludicrousness to the detriment of reporting national and worldwide/larger stories...

291 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:33:57am

re: #258 CyanSnowHawk

One of the bullet points being, "We don't need to photoshop."


Yes. And it's funny how no one has mentioned our "Boomers" - nuclear powered subs, LOADED with MREV's missles - out there, somewhere, but with targets entered and sitting silently, waiting for orders that I pray will never be issued.
Russia STILL has an opportunity to get out of this mess having made it's point very well; I hope they don't choose to push that point any further.

292 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:09am

re: #288 Big Steve

Почем у у меня подве ргнут ься арест у

children, stop whispering

293 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:17am

re: #282 kuffar

Stop with the Hyperbole. I said a response is justified, not necessarily this one. And even then, Regime change may very well be justified if there are a series of incidents ala Saddam.

I heard that Shaka guy (before the Russians 'responded') was sending troops into South Ossetia because they had taken attacks from Ossetia, but I can't track down reports that coroborate what he says.

I just wanna know, what the frak is going on.

Nice back-pedalling.

294 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:25am

re: #275 tfc3rid

Amazingly I don't hear about this on the nightly news...

Let's play the game, imagine the press coverage if the Dems were holding the fort down in the face of a GOP controlled house shut down.

295 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:46am

re: #251 galloping granny

My screen is showing a SnS in the top right corner with a feed from Georgia. And the ticker. Perhaps there simply is nothing new to say right this second.


It gives us a chance to surf other outlets in any case. CSPAN 1 is focused on the issue with a Russia Today feed right now.

296 Saif al Kufr  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:57am

Hi Charles,

I just want to say that although I took issue with the La Russophobe blog yesterday for its sophomoric content and unhinged commentary, both you and La Russophobe are right to be intrigued by the "Russia Blog"-Discovery Institute connection.

I think the connection here is the Russian Orthodox Church, which is both rabidly Russian nationalist and staunchly anti-modern (i.e. anti-evolution). It seems that the DI has successfully courted religious obscurantists of all stripes - Russian Orthodox, Evangelical, radical Islamist, etc.

297 Liechtentrager  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:58am

re: #161 Charles

Hey, if the Russians can wage cyberwar against Georgia, surely they can spare the time to send a few nastygrams your way, Charles.

I hope that "humanitarian aid" includes a few anti-aircraft missiles.

298 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:59am
299 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:59am

re: #267 Dianna

That's possible. Let's suppose it's true now I'm left wondering why. Is it a plan to weaken America by destroying science education? It just seems nutty. Of all the things the Soviets could do to destroy us this seems like a pretty implausible plan.

300 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:34:59am

re: #286 faraway

johnmccain.com

More specifically, here.

301 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:35:01am

re: #241 jcm

Russia has a long history of using the agent provocateur, to start shit like this. Give them "plausible deniablity" so to speak. Russian has been stirring the Ossetia pot for for a while. This little expedition into Georgia wasn't just throw together in response to Georgia, it's been in the works waiting for the excuse to go.

Same tactics they used against Chechnya. Now that was/is a conflict with no good guys, but still....that apartment fire in Moscow blamed on Chechnya? Classic KGB - so classic it was cliche, but everyone had to go along with it. Now the same is being employed in Ossetia.

302 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:35:32am

re: #204 Sol Roth

Rather then NATO paperwork, I would get an advanced team from SACEUR in, schedule a major combined arms exercise (... to identify doctrine, material, and training deficiencies ... etc) and start deploying PAC Patriot batteries.

Call a NATO summit and invite the Ukrainians.

Anyone figure out where the Russian Black Sea fleet is going to refuel without taking Tbilisi?

303 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:35:36am

re: #283 Tigger2005

By the way, I love this move by Bush and I support it wholeheartedly. American boots and military equipment on the ground, but to deliver humanitarian aid...what are the Russkis supposed to say?

This does look like some brilliant jujitsu by the allegedly dumb, inarticulate cowboy.

304 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:05am

re: #296 Saif al Kufr

Hi Charles,

I just want to say that although I took issue with the La Russophobe blog yesterday for its sophomoric content and unhinged commentary, both you and La Russophobe are right to be intrigued by the "Russia Blog"-Discovery Institute connection.

I think the connection here is the Russian Orthodox Church, which is both rabidly Russian nationalist and staunchly anti-modern (i.e. anti-evolution). It seems that the DI has successfully courted religious obscurantists of all stripes - Russian Orthodox, Evangelical, radical Islamist, etc.

Bingo

305 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:13am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

Would the Americans have been justified in invading Iraq and eliminating Saddam Hussein simply because he took over Kuwait back in 1991? Supposing that Georgia did initiate the whole kerfluffle, it's an analogous situation. In any event, that does not give Russia any latitude to invade a sovereign country, much less one that poses no active threat to Russia (as opposed to Iraq, whose ties to terrorism and dangerous weapons are well-documented).

How can you equate the two situations?

306 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:16am

re: #296 Saif al Kufr

I think the connection here is the Russian Orthodox Church, which is both rabidly Russian nationalist and staunchly anti-modern (i.e. anti-evolution).


Good point.

307 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:33am

re: #270 Silhouette

Obama has a real dilemma.

He must appear to say the opposite of McCain and Bush, but the opposite of what they are saying is so clearly wrong and/or weak to any voter watching. He can't come out in support of Russia. He can't appeal to the UN (again- there is only so much collassal ignorance of UNSC membership that the MSM can ignore for him). And he can't keep talking about how both sides are equally wrong.

What a pickle he is in, trying to look presidential when being presidential actually requires knowledge, decision, and leadership instead of platitudes and assurances of oceans receding and planets healing.


3am call indeed. . .this is probably as close to one as we are going to see pre-election.

Fortunately for Obama (and the rest of the world), he has no actual responsibility here. He doesn't have to formulate policy or execute it.

So he can turn his attention to the purely political matter of making himself look good.

308 Catttt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:38am

re: #257 godfrey

Who the hell is Caylee Anthony?

You don't want to know.

309 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:43am

re: #294 Silhouette

Let's play the game, imagine the press coverage if the Dems were holding the fort down in the face of a GOP controlled house shut down.

Gallant democrats... Heroes for our time... Standing up for Joe citizen...

The usual crapola...

310 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:52am

re: #303 Occasional Reader

Hopefully, he's as "dumb" as Reagan. Let's hope.

311 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:59am

re: #252 jcm

President Bush demands Russia get out of Georgia

By MATTHEW LEE – 11 minutes ago

A U.S. C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies landed in Georgia on Wednesday, and Bush said that Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through.

That's actually a very gutsy,smart move by Bush. I salute him.

Maybe Condi just woke up and realized she's been an idiot for the past year, this is supposed to be what she's good for.

312 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:36:59am

re: #242 Honorary Yooper

Which is a bit worrisome since this is has potential to be a lot more due to the players involved. I'd say the Georgia-Russia situation is far more important on the world stage now than almost anything else.

313 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:37:02am

re: #288 Big Steve

Почем у у меня подве ргнут ься арест у

Thanks!

314 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:37:24am

So NOW they have a democratic talking head on Fox saying that in this situation what you need is bipartisan consensus. "McCain has been making partisan remarks against Obama in this."

315 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:37:28am

re: #287 Grand Poobah

The Russian army included little troop transports with machine guns, reminiscent of Mussolini's armored car folly

There's nothing wrong with armored troop transports with mounted machine guns; we have 'em, too. It's just not a good idea to roll them unsupported against a well-armed enemy.

316 beblebrox  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:37:40am

re: #186 cod_is_great

tell me about it. my russian woman has cost me virtually everything i have, up to and including my sanity.

317 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:37:56am

re: #271 galloping granny

And this is a perfect illustration of that. If the Russians take that pipeline then they have monopoly control over nearly all of the oil and gas supply into Europe. He who owns a monopoly control on the energy supply to Europe controls Europe unequivocally.

* * *
Yes, Putin's one oil grabbing greaseball, and it's all his--he takes it from his own countrymen if they get in his way. Like Hugo Chavez.

OPEC and RUSSIA aren't exactly our best buds historically. Turn off the spigot and even democrats squeal about inflating tires.

I want our friends in this hemisphere to get their Petroleos Mexicanos and Canadian Oil rigs humming.

318 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:03am

CBSNews Headline tonight: Bush leads world with 21st century Berlin Airlift into Georgia

319 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:05am

re: #282 kuffar

You want to know about pre-invasion. Read La Russophobe's summary and its links.

320 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:07am

re: #306 Killgore Trout

The resurgence of nationistic movements in Europe came to my mind also.

321 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:11am

re: #271 galloping granny

And this is a perfect illustration of that. If the Russians take that pipeline then they have monopoly control over nearly all of the oil and gas supply into Europe. He who owns a monopoly control on the energy supply to Europe controls Europe unequivocally.

Putin takes over the majority of the European supply and then Islamists/Wahabists do the same for the majority of Middle Eastern supply.

I would love to be proved to be a pessimist in that this would never happen. Time to spell it out exactly what would this mean to the average American.

322 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:11am

re: #300 Fat Jolly Penguin

More specifically, here.

In addition, download the GOP toolbar. Just searching through that portal I've added a 1.33 in just a couple of days. Not a lot, but it all adds up.

323 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:20am

re: #188 FurryOldGuyJeans

There has also been an ongoing cyber war against Georgian interests and government servers by Russian hackers for quite some time before the invasion. This invasion was planned for a long time by Putin.

Obviously the Russians have been planning this thing for a long time. But that is even more reason for us to be very cautious in our response for a while yet.

I thank God that Bush isn't as stupid as an awful lot of folks on the web who have been screaming to send all the B2s out of Whiteman to bomb Russian troops on the ground. Or to send all of our assets out of Iraq to our (now much smaller than they were) bases in Turkey to go on the attack. Never mind that Turkey won't give permission.....

sigh

The Bush Administration response has been good so far, IMHO. I hope they continue to do so well, and hope our strong allies in "New Europe" continue their outstanding work.

324 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:21am

The humanitarian aid move is what a REAL human shield looks like. The Russians say they aren't over-running the country - Fine - We'll test that theory by covering the place in American troops. And woe to the Russian that fires on American troops.

Reminds me of the constant US naval presence in Taiwan (fire at them, you fire at us. And you don't want to fire at us).

Also reminds me of the move by the submarine Dallas in The Hunt for Red October, to get between the torpedo and the October and get the torpedo to target them.

325 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:27am

re: #282 kuffar

Except the Russians had to have been prestaging the equipment for weeks or months beforehand to move in so much, so fast. Plus, the Geogians have been dealing with separatist forces in both regions with funding & kit from "unknown sources" for years. Can we say "entrapment"?

326 Thanos  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:28am

re: #298 Charles

LR Translations: Commissars of the Internet.

Charles, This is one reason I keep asking for flags. If we could click on someone's profile and see the country they are coming from it would be helpful. Since the most common flags need only be stored in cache it shouldn't be too much of a suck of sys resources to put a small flag gif on profiles. Yeah there are ways to defeat that, but it would be helpful I think.

327 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:32am

re: #215 kuffar

If you seriously have to ask 'who started this'-you have a problem.

328 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:38:50am

re: #280 mpax

Huh?

329 Macker  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:14am

re: #235 pegcity

In canada they had a CBC story last night on a beluga whale for 10 minutes.

Was that on The National? Is Peter Mansbridge still reading the news on that show?

330 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:15am

re: #242 Honorary Yooper

Which is a bit worrisome since this is has potential to be a lot more due to the players involved. I'd say the Georgia-Russia situation is far more important on the world stage now than almost anything else.

I was chatting with a woman in line at the store on Saturday about the hundreds of dead in Georgia. The cashier overheard us and flipped out thinking we were talking about the State of Georgia. We explained what was going on and mentioned the pipeline at one point. The cashier sniffed "Oh, oil" and turned off her ears. I'm still shaking my head.

331 Lawrence Schmerel  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:24am

Bush is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice?

Georgia is doomed.

332 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:30am

re: #287 Grand Poobah

we've yet to have F-35 aircraft come into service, and it's doubtful if they will ever arrive in service

And I do hope you're mistaken about that.

333 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:34am

re: #275 tfc3rid

Amazingly I don't hear about this on the nightly news...

* * *
Nancy Pelosi & C-SPAN turned off the lights & the mikes so you have to look elsewhere (FOX news, The Hill.com, etc. for news of the GOP folks agitating for energy independence on Capitol Hill while Nancy Pelosi is on her lousy book tour)

334 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:36am

re: #322 mpax

Is that a good idea?

It's one thing to add toolbars within a MySpace environment, it's another to muck up your workstation. I really, really wondered about that when I saw it.

335 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:48am

re: #324 Silhouette

The humanitarian aid move is what a REAL human shield looks like.

So true. Great observation.

336 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:50am

re: #292 faraway

children, stop whispering

иди к чёрту - pronounced edi k chortu

337 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:56am

re: #287 Grand Poobah

And it isn't just the equipment. The US military was made of professional, serious soldiers, sailors, and airmen. They came up with ways to train and absorb new recruits quickly, and make them into proper soldiers.

The Russian military is known for hazing, bullying, and generally mistreating its recruits. That entire attitude would need to change. Besides, a good part of its military would be needed to keep those ahead from running.

338 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:39:59am

re: #320 scottishbuzzsaw

But how does that tie into the Disco Institute? Why would they be interested in pushing nationalist movements? What's in it for them?

339 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:07am

For those unfamiliar with the real background to this, read Ralph Peters' piece from yesterday. Here's one relevant section:

Let's be clear: For all that US commentators and diplomats are still chattering about Russia's "response" to Georgia's actions, the Kremlin spent months planning and preparing this operation. Any soldier above the grade of private can tell you that there's absolutely no way Moscow could've launched this huge ground, air and sea offensive in an instantaneous "response" to alleged Georgian actions.

As I pointed out Saturday, even to get one armored brigade over the Caucasus Mountains required extensive preparations. Since then, Russia has sent in the equivalent of almost two divisions - not only in South Ossetia, the scene of the original fighting, but also in separatist Abkhazia on the Black Sea coast.

The Russians also managed to arrange the instant appearance of a squadron of warships to blockade Georgia. And they launched hundreds of air strikes against preplanned targets.

Every one of these things required careful preparations. In the words of one US officer, "Just to line up the airlift sorties would've taken weeks."

340 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:11am

re: #330 MandyManners

I was chatting with a woman in line at the store on Saturday about the hundreds of dead in Georgia. The cashier overheard us and flipped out thinking we were talking about the State of Georgia. We explained what was going on and mentioned the pipeline at one point. The cashier sniffed "Oh, oil" and turned off her ears. I'm still shaking my head.

Long way of saying that some people just done care 'cause it's beyond their imagination.

341 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:19am

re: #215 kuffar

Democracy or not, if they initiated without provocation, then Russian response is justified. Sorry. Just because it is a democracy doesn't give them a free pass.

Is it Russian apologism to ask 'Who started this?"

I really, really hope you read up on this a bit.

342 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:20am

re: #305 MandyManners

There is no equating the two. They are analogous on the face of it - one country invades some territory, a much larger country counterattacks to undo the aggression. My point was, if the Georgians initiated the attacking, they would be in the position of the Iraqis in the 1991 conflict, having invaded Kuwait (even though Kuwait is a sovereign nation in and of itself, as opposed to Ossetia). That would place the Russians in the position of the Americans (hypothetically speaking), and their current actions would be like if we hadn't stopped at the border in '91. I'm not saying the facts are anywhere near equivalent, but there is a very limited analogy that can be drawn.

343 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:24am

re: #311 itellu3times

Maybe Condi just woke up and realized she's been an idiot for the past year, this is supposed to be what she's good for.

She was a national treasure before August/07?

344 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:40am

re: #328 Dianna

Huh?

The suggestion was made to contribute to McCain. I said in addition to contributions one might download the GOP toolbar. When you do a web search a few cents are contributed to McCain.

345 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:54am

Oy vey. Let's hope "I'm sending Condi to France" translates into "I want to keep her as far as hell away from my command centre as possible".

346 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:40:57am

re: #309 tfc3rid

What's more, you'd actually hear about it. The GOP stand isn't making the news at all. Go ahead, quiz the next 20 people you see.

347 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:41:06am

re: #283 Tigger2005

By the way, I love this move by Bush and I support it wholeheartedly. American boots and military equipment on the ground, but to deliver humanitarian aid...what are the Russkis supposed to say? And the Georgians will see American troops and the American flag on their soil. This is Bush's Berlin airlift. Where can I send my money?

* * *
Thank a military family today. Thank ANY military person.

348 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:41:13am

re: #344 mpax

The suggestion was made to contribute to McCain. I said in addition to contributions one might download the GOP toolbar. When you do a web search a few cents are contributed to McCain.

Where does the money come from?

349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:41:34am

re: #337 Kosh's Shadow

And it isn't just the equipment. The US military was made of professional, serious soldiers, sailors, and airmen. They came up with ways to train and absorb new recruits quickly, and make them into proper soldiers.

The Russian military is known for hazing, bullying, and generally mistreating its recruits. That entire attitude would need to change. Besides, a good part of its military would be needed to keep those ahead from running.

Thats why the guys at the rear get the machine guns, to make sure the guys in front don't turn around.

350 Saif al Kufr  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:41:54am

re: #306 Killgore Trout

And you can tell, on the "Russia Blog" banner, the most prominent thing is Orthodox church domes.

Anybody know what skyscraper that is on the banner?

351 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:03am

re: #327 WriterMom

If you seriously have to ask 'who started this'-you have a problem.

It's clear the Russians started it, but I'm still rather vague whether these Russian charges of the Georgians shooting up civilians as the trigger, really happened.

I think that's what the screamer on Rush was trying to say.

352 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:04am

re: #296 Saif al Kufr

Hi Charles,

I just want to say that although I took issue with the La Russophobe blog yesterday for its sophomoric content and unhinged commentary, both you and La Russophobe are right to be intrigued by the "Russia Blog"-Discovery Institute connection.

I think the connection here is the Russian Orthodox Church, which is both rabidly Russian nationalist and staunchly anti-modern (i.e. anti-evolution). It seems that the DI has successfully courted religious obscurantists of all stripes - Russian Orthodox, Evangelical, radical Islamist, etc.

Hmmmm.

353 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:14am

re: #307 looking closely

Hey. Can we leave Obama alone please. I mean the guy is on vacation for crying out loud. Campaigning is hard work you know. You can't expect the guy to be available 24/7/365. He needs his rest. He needs his alone time with the wife and family. The rest of the world will just have to wait until he is done boogie boarding and drinking mai tai's.

354 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:16am

re: #4 Sizzlack

blinks? or drinks?

If they go home and drink that would be fine by me.

355 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:23am

re: #270 Silhouette

Obama has a real dilemma.

He must appear to say the opposite of McCain and Bush, but the opposite of what they are saying is so clearly wrong and/or weak to any voter watching. He can't come out in support of Russia. He can't appeal to the UN (again- there is only so much collassal ignorance of UNSC membership that the MSM can ignore for him). And he can't keep talking about how both sides are equally wrong.

What a pickle he is in, trying to look presidential when being presidential actually requires knowledge, decision, and leadership instead of platitudes and assurances of oceans receding and planets healing.

Saying the wrong thing has never stopped him before.

Is georgia the 58th state.

356 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:41am

Who posted that video yesterday of Obama's mouthpiece (a Congressman, I believe) asserting that "Russia has complied with Senator Obama's demand that they stand down," or something similar.

I'd love to see that again, but can't find it.

357 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:47am

re: #339 Irene NYC

Exactly.

358 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:42:58am

re: #348 Fat Jolly Penguin

Where does the money come from?

No idea.

359 CynicalConservative  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:00am

OT: Just heard this on Rush and saw it on FOX (ugh)

Arkansas Democratic Party Chairman Injured in Shooting

360 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:16am

re: #348 Fat Jolly Penguin

Where does the money come from?

One would assume advertisers based on traffic flow generated.

361 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:20am

Why were all those Russian ground forces ready to go in? Chechnya is just a stone throw away. You know, Checnya, a warzone. It is a pretty explosive region and as the local authority, Russia would have ground forces nearby.

We had ground troops in Germany that were sent south to the Balkans during the 90s during the Wars in the Former Yugoslav.

I am all for supporting Democracy... With one caveat, unwarranted aggression is unwaranted aggression regardless if it is a Dictatorship or a Democracy that initiates it.

362 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:39am

So let me get this straight:

Russia is now a country dominated by amoral realpolitik robber baron oil and gas capitalist plutocrat types with imperial ambitions, and they've just invaded a sovereign nation, for the coarsest of economic reasons, and are brutally killing civilians, flipping the bird at international bodies, and showing no signs of stopping or remorse.

And yet, no lefties are running to Tbilisi to act as human shields.

I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

363 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:42am

re: #277 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

you know that rove and putin are thick as inkleweavers

364 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:46am

re: #359 CynicalConservative

OT: Just heard this on Rush and saw it on FOX (ugh)

Arkansas Democratic Party Chairman Injured in Shooting


Cheney's loose again?

365 Charles  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:48am

re: #326 Thanos

Charles, This is one reason I keep asking for flags. If we could click on someone's profile and see the country they are coming from it would be helpful. Since the most common flags need only be stored in cache it shouldn't be too much of a suck of sys resources to put a small flag gif on profiles. Yeah there are ways to defeat that, but it would be helpful I think.

It's a good idea, and I've considered it, but maintaining a database of IP-to-country mappings would be a real headache. And it's not infallible -- there would inevitably be some false results, and that could lead to serious misunderstandings.

366 Saif al Kufr  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:53am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

If those nationalist movements had a religious component, DI would probably seek alliance with them.

367 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:43:53am

Ed Morrisey is usually pretty sharp but I think he's wrong on this one....
Sovereignty wars

I warned in March about the folly of recognizing Kosovo, especially over the strenuous objections of Moscow and the Serbs. In fact, I specifically noted that Georgia would be next, although I thought Russia would target Abkhazia first for its strategic Black Sea position. Georgia made that same assumption in May.

It isn’t just a matter of precedent, either. This is at least in part payback for the West thumbing its nose at Russia while it dismembered the Balkans over the last 13 years. Russia and Serbia have traditionally been close allies, and the suppression of Serbian sovereignty produced a completely predictable result.

He does raise some interesting questions but there are just wars. Certain movements should be supported and others rejected. I think it's a mistake to treat all independence movements equally.

368 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:10am

re: #318 farawayCBS headline? Hardly.
"Bush pushes us to the Brink of WWIII" is more likely.

369 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:12am

re: #332 Occasional Reader

I think he is the Navy needs them bad, whats holding things up is the VTOL variant and the export licensing.

370 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:12am

re: #346 Silhouette

What's more, you'd actually hear about it. The GOP stand isn't making the news at all. Go ahead, quiz the next 20 people you see.

Right, so it doesn't matter and the Dems will still gain 20 seats in November...

It's a damn shame because for once the GOP is standing up...

371 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:13am

re: #299 Killgore Trout

An old Soviet trick was to have supposedly uninvolved outlets for propaganda. Usually, it was fairly unsophisticated material, and easily spotted, but not always, and it got a lot better in the last 12 years or so of the Soviet regime.

372 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:16am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

But how does that tie into the Disco Institute? Why would they be interested in pushing nationalist movements? What's in it for them?

First thought is the involvement of the Dominionist/Reconstructionist sect at DI. Afterall, they believe that America is theirs for the rebuilding along their religious beliefs.

Still pondering...

373 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:27am

re: #288 Big Steve

Почем у у меня подве ргнут ься арест у

Die Америке собака

374 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:29am

re: #321 FurryOldGuyJeans

better get that oil shale up and running.

I'd guess the dems are in real trouble in the US Senate races in CO and NM right now, where the oil obstructionist wanker Udall cousins are running against strong conservative opponents.

375 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:40am

re: #356 Cognito

Who posted that video yesterday of Obama's mouthpiece (a Congressman, I believe) asserting that "Russia has complied with Senator Obama's demand that they stand down," or something similar.

I'd love to see that again, but can't find it.

I think it was the Governor of Virginia.

376 JHW  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:44am

Somewhat related to what Charles posted in #298:
Putin's Opponents are Made to Vanish From TV

Shades of Stalin's pre-Photoshop tricks with photographs.

377 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:55am

re: #356 Cognito

Who posted that video yesterday of Obama's mouthpiece (a Congressman, I believe) asserting that "Russia has complied with Senator Obama's demand that they stand down," or something similar.

I'd love to see that again, but can't find it.

Try this one:Tim Kaine

378 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:44:59am

re: #350 Saif al Kufr

Anybody know what skyscraper that is on the banner?


Good question. It's very distinctive.

379 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:13am

re: #365 Charles

but maintaining a database of IP-to-country mappings would be a real headache.

geoip

380 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:14am

re: #351 itellu3times

It's clear the Russians started it, but I'm still rather vague whether these Russian charges of the Georgians shooting up civilians as the trigger, really happened.

I think that's what the screamer on Rush was trying to say.

Georgia "started it," that that's irrelevant language in this case.

You step on my toe. So I move into your house, eat all your food, spend your money, and harass your wife.

Who started it?

381 sparrowlake  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:38am

re: #345 WriterMom

Oy vey. Let's hope "I'm sending Condi to France" translates into "I want to keep her as far as hell away from my command centre as possible".

Maybe Sarkozy can give her a special walking tour of the entire Tour de France route.

382 CapeCoddah  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:50am

Good afternoon All, Take a look at this:
Report: Judge Says University Can Deny Course Credit to Christian Graduates Taught With Creationism Texts

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

383 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:53am

re: #362 godfrey

So let me get this straight:

Russia is now a country dominated by amoral realpolitik robber baron oil and gas capitalist plutocrat types with imperial ambitions, and they've just invaded a sovereign nation, for the coarsest of economic reasons, and are brutally killing civilians, flipping the bird at international bodies, and showing no signs of stopping or remorse.

And yet, no lefties are running to Tbilisi to act as human shields.

I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

Are you crazy? The Russians would kill us! If it was the Americans, we get to go on Good Morning America and Oprah.

/LLL

384 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:45:56am

re: #343 sparrowlake

She was a national treasure before August/07?

She must have done something worthwhile to have been in line for the Secretary of State position she's been abusing recently. A year, two, who's counting? She's no bureaucrat, she's not even a statesmanperson, but she might be a strategic consultant worth listening to. Now, if her information is clear and up to date, that's another question, if she tries to manage this with ten year old facts, that would be a disaster.

But I like that C-17 landing in Tbilisi.

Course, that could be Gates.

385 Catttt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:13am

re: #356 Cognito

Who posted that video yesterday of Obama's mouthpiece (a Congressman, I believe) asserting that "Russia has complied with Senator Obama's demand that they stand down," or something similar.

I'd love to see that again, but can't find it.

If I were Barry, I'd have hidden the video by now.

386 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:14am

re: #291 realwest

What's even more funny is that I saw this story (missile test) earlier on either the Fox or CNN web site and now it is gone. I had to do a G**gle search just to find it again.

387 Westward Ho  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:17am

re: #285 godfrey

Russia wasn't provoked.

Really, if a hostile foreign power around you built or was going to build military bases around you would you tolerate it? Isn't this just a pathetic and last ditch response by Russia to the NATO expansion eastwards aka encirclement. Would you tolerate it in
your own backyard?

388 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:19am

re: #355 Eowyn2

Saying the wrong thing has never stopped him before.

Is georgia the 58th state.

Is that North Georgia or South Georgia? Or is it East and West? Old, New? Damn, I need an Atlas.

389 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:20am

re: #351 itellu3times

I don't think anyone would be able to tell you one way or the other, but here's the results.

390 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:34am

re: #353 Ford_Prefect

Hey. Can we leave Obama alone please. I mean the guy is on vacation for crying out loud.


Fine by me. I'd be thrilled and delighted to leave him entirely out of this mess permanently.

391 pegcity  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:39am

re: #318 faraway

Yeah right more like, Obama goes boogeyboarding, more at 10.

392 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:45am

re: #377 mpax

Try this one:Tim Kaine

Yes! That's a particularly piquant flavor of crow.

393 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:46:51am

re: #349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wasn't Stalin the one who said that in the Soviet army it took more courage to retreat than it did to advance?

394 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:10am

re: #321 FurryOldGuyJeans

Putin takes over the majority of the European supply and then Islamists/Wahabists do the same for the majority of Middle Eastern supply.

I would love to be proved to be a pessimist in that this would never happen. Time to spell it out exactly what would this mean to the average American.

* * *
$40-50-60-70-80 dollar gas?

WAKE UP CALL.

CALLING ALL AMERICANS who only care about gas...
PUTIN'S grabbing for your wallet through Georgia.

395 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:17am

re: #326 Thanos

Charles, This is one reason I keep asking for flags. If we could click on someone's profile and see the country they are coming from it would be helpful. Since the most common flags need only be stored in cache it shouldn't be too much of a suck of sys resources to put a small flag gif on profiles. Yeah there are ways to defeat that, but it would be helpful I think.

There are enough apologists/propagandists for Russian Imperialist Aggression outside Russia to make the flag system nigh on null and void. I just let the comments and spin tell me all I need to know.

396 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:32am

re: #375 Nevergiveup

I think it was the Governor of Virginia.

Oh, you mean The Obama's running mate?

397 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:41am

re: #282 kuffar

The Abkhazians and South Ossetians are both classified as "aspirant peoples", according to Flags of Non-Independent and Aspiring Peoples, which includes them among 202 different identifiable world populations seeking independence. And yes, that would be independence from Georgia. All three have, at various times, been part of Russia or the Soviet Union, but all three, by international agreement, are now non-Russian. Kind of like Alaska. Once again: South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia, some Ossetians and Abkhazians wanted to secede from Georgia, and Georgia disagreed. Russia doesn't figure in. Not legally.

398 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:48am

re: #241 jcm

I believe it was waiting for another news event to provide cover; Olympics, US strike on Iran, big terrorism incident, etc. Given cover - something would have happened to provide a proverbial trigger.

I think the Georgians knew this, took it to the US embassy - were told no way by some State guys.

399 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:47:56am

re: #362 godfrey

So let me get this straight:

Russia is now a country dominated by amoral realpolitik robber baron oil and gas capitalist plutocrat types with imperial ambitions, and they've just invaded a sovereign nation, for the coarsest of economic reasons, and are brutally killing civilians, flipping the bird at international bodies, and showing no signs of stopping or remorse.

And yet, no lefties are running to Tbilisi to act as human shields.

I am shocked. Shocked, I say.


It all depends on how the msm spins it. If they spin the evil russian bear blood for oil analogy, then moonbats will show up. However, the MSM will spin this in a "Mother Bear Russia just wants to keep georgia from becoming a decadent democratic republic with greedy big oil torturing the osetians (or whatever they're called.)

400 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:48:16am

re: #361 kuffar

Why were all those Russian ground forces ready to go in? Chechnya is just a stone throw away. You know, Checnya, a warzone. It is a pretty explosive region and as the local authority, Russia would have ground forces nearby.

We had ground troops in Germany that were sent south to the Balkans during the 90s during the Wars in the Former Yugoslav.

I am all for supporting Democracy... With one caveat, unwarranted aggression is unwaranted aggression regardless if it is a Dictatorship or a Democracy that initiates it.

You are sure spouting off as if you know what you're talking about. You keep asking "who started it." Find out for yourself. You just want to contradict comments here - log off LGF and start doing your own research. Come back with facts and data to support your position and you won't look like the idiot you do now.

401 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:48:17am

re: #351 itellu3times

whether these Russian charges of the Georgians shooting up civilians as the trigger, really happened.

The Russians are asking a lot of our gullibility to accept the story that they were SO upset over Georgians firing at civilians that, in order to stop the firing at civilians, the Russians bombed the hell out of civilians.

402 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:48:22am

re: #356 Cognito

Who posted that video yesterday of Obama's mouthpiece (a Congressman, I believe) asserting that "Russia has complied with Senator Obama's demand that they stand down," or something similar.

I'd love to see that again, but can't find it.

Actually, it was VP shortlister Governor Kaine of Virginia. They had it over at hotair.com.

And then they had the contrast video of Pawlenty's response to the same question. oooooo Kaine looked even worse after that.

403 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:48:24am

re: #38 Sizzlack

Russia is like the guy that shows up to the party late and drinks a ton in 10 minutes to try and catch up to everyone else. Then before you know it he's on the front lawn fighting three people, which is then followed by a lot of throwing up and passing out in the garage.

There used to be a problem at Minicon (Minnesota Science Fiction Convention) where a bunch of college guys would pay the at the door membership fee and then drink up all the free beer and act like they owned the place.

404 Macker  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:49:05am

re: #373 jcm

Die Амери ке собак а

Speaky English!

405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:49:19am

Obama’s mandatory volunteerism starts NOW!

Obama worshipers may already be feeling a bit of buyers’ remorse.

Turns out that those who snapped up free tickets to his big convention speech at Invesco Field will have to volunteer for six hours. And they’re whining about it to the press.

406 pegcity  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:49:24am

re: #393 bulwrk

yup, because in Stalingrad death was only 98% assured fighting, where as retreating it was 100% guaranteed.

407 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:49:26am

I'm sure that the Red Army troops are following the strictest of rulesof engagement, similar to what our troops have to follow in Iraq...

408 eaglewingz08  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:49:31am

I want to know why the CIA, the NSA and the DIA have not seen the buildup that had to occur over the past month in Russia that was necessary to support this 'instantaneous' war? Whoever had this info and didn't pass it on should be given reassignment as there is no telling what other information these people now have but are sitting on.

As for the Obamanation he will obviously have to cut his travels to Hawaii short and go immediately to Moscow and have a tete a tete with Putin and Medvedev who upon being in the same room with the lightworker will immediately cease all war in Georgia, withdraw all their troops from the region and apologize to Georgia and the world for this misadventure.

409 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:50:29am

re: #371 Dianna

An old Soviet trick was to have supposedly uninvolved outlets for propaganda.

Otherwise known as the "Columbia University faculty lounge".

410 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:50:47am
- John McCain's chief foreign policy adviser and his business partner lobbied the senator or his staff on 49 occasions in a 3 1/2-year span while being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the government of the former Soviet republic of Georgia.
ADVERTISEMENT

The payments raise ethical questions about the intersection of Randy Scheunemann's personal financial interests and his advice to the Republican presidential candidate who is seizing on Russian aggression in Georgia as a campaign issue.


AP article

411 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:50:57am

re: #399 Eowyn2

It all depends on how the msm spins it. If they spin the evil russian bear blood for oil analogy, then moonbats will show up. However, the MSM will spin this in a "Mother Bear Russia just wants to keep georgia from becoming a decadent democratic republic with greedy big oil torturing the osetians (or whatever they're called.)

The outlets I've seen have done a fair job covering this, and have actually taken criticism from some quarters for being biased against Russia.

So it's really, really time to move beyond the media blame game. There's conflict afoot.

412 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:51:11am

re: #391 pegcity

Yeah right more like, Obama goes boogeyboarding, more at 10.

Breaking news - Obama has dreamy eyes! Details at 11.

413 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:51:50am

Well, I think the humanitarian aid is brilliant. It doesn't just block the Soviets Russians, but the MSM will find it harder to portray Bush as the arrogant, rogue cowboy acting unilaterally. But, I've been wrong before about the MSM....

414 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:11am

re: #406 pegcity

yup, because in Stalingrad death was only 98% assured fighting, where as retreating it was 100% guaranteed.

Sucked to be an officer as well. Stalin purged most of the officer corps in the 30s for not being good Commies, replacing them with good party members. Then when the war broke out, he purged the party members for not being good officers.

415 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:13am

Please ding me down at #410

416 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:31am

re: #387 Westward Ho

Correct. Russia was not provoked to invade.

Georgia had no ambitions to annex territory north of the Caucasus and had neither desires nor plans to conduct raids. Russia's fear of Georgia was the general fear of having any kind of rival on its border.

Russia had everything to gain from stoking South Ossetian resistance and then igniting a blaze it could then swoop in to smother.

That's what happened. Georgia defended its federation militarily, and this was all the "provocation" Russia was waiting for.

417 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:37am

re: #401 Silhouette

The Russians are asking a lot of our gullibility to accept the story that they were SO upset over Georgians firing at civilians that, in order to stop the firing at civilians, the Russians bombed the hell out of civilians.

Even the conventional wisdom recognizes this was a Russian provocation of Georgia, going back several years, and that having two divisions show up after rolling through mountain passes, took months of planning and logistics.

That the neo-Soviets don't just admit the preparation and long-term grievances, however bogus, makes them ridiculous by modern standards. Does Putin really think that kind of disinformation is going to succeed in a cell phone, satellite, Internet world? We all have freakin' photocopiers and printers in our *homes* now, Vlad babe (for any yutes reading here and mystified: Soviets used to limit and license xerox machines, they were *scared* of them!)

418 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:44am

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obama’s mandatory volunteerism starts NOW!
Obama worshipers may already be feeling a bit of buyers’ remorse.

Turns out that those who snapped up free tickets to his big convention speech at Invesco Field will have to volunteer for six hours. And they’re whining about it to the press.

To quote the great 20th-Century philosopher Nelson Muntz, "Haw-haw!"

419 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:44am

re: #413 Irene NYC

Well, I think the humanitarian aid is brilliant. It doesn't just block the Soviets Russians, but the MSM will find it harder to portray Bush as the arrogant, rogue cowboy acting unilaterally. But, I've been wrong before about the MSM....

They will find a way... They will say that it is America's 'trojan horse'...

420 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:44am

I posted this article this morning in the Links about Google "disappearing" the features in Georgia's map. They are truly a loathsome outfit.

[Link: blog.foreignpolicy.com...]

As if Georgia didn't have enough to deal with, yesterday the country's cities and transportation routes completely disappeared from Google Maps. Reportedly wanting to keep its cyber territory conflict-neutral, Google removed all of Georgia's details from its maps, making the war-torn nation look like a ghostly white blob flanked by Russia and Turkey. Georgia, though, isn't the only country going blank on Google: neighboring Armenia and Azerbaijan--who have their own ongoing terrorital dispute over the Nagorno-Karabakh region--are coming up empty too.

421 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:46am

Is there connection between the Kurdish PKK’s bombing of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline in Turkey & the Russian invasion of Georgia 72 hours later? Let’s keep in mind that the PKK is a communist group - the Kurdistan Worker’s Party - and therefor the type of rebel group that stays near Putin’s KGB heart.

422 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:52:48am

re: #373 jcm

Die Амери ке собак а

I am more of a cat person actually. I have always found it interesting that in russian, dog is a female word. Female gender words in Russian end in a or ya. Had you intended to call me a bitch you would have used сука
(suka). I like in Patton when while smiling the Russian general calles Patton a suka sen....son of a bitch.

423 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:09am

re: #412 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You forgot about his aura! It's like, sooo peaceful.

424 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:19am

re: #319 godfrey

Finally, some facts and not TV Talking points. Which is what I was wanting.

Okay, read it, Russian reason is bunk and Georgians were 100 percent Justified. Though they did fall into the Russian trap, but heh, Bush is stupidly brilliant as usual and turned it around on the Russians to our and Georgia's advantage. Putin has given us Georgia, Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia! And some ammunition to get Belarus into the NATO fold...

Democrats are right. Bush is smart enough to pull of a 9/11 inside job...

425 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:26am

re: #409 Occasional Reader

LOL

You can also include thier Kalifornia counterpart at Berkeley.

426 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:43am

re: #332 Occasional Reader Uh, O.R.? IIRC, the F-35 is the so far called "Joint Strike Fighter" and is very, very good - but not a match, at all, for the F-22 for air
supremecy.

427 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:49am

re: #415 faraway

Ok... I don't trust the AP in this conflict much regarding the real OPFOR to peace/democracy etc...

428 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:50am

re: #356 Cognito

Look on Hot Air. It was Governor Kaine of Virginia.

429 Russkilitlover  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:52am

re: #411 Cognito

The outlets I've seen have done a fair job covering this, and have actually taken criticism from some quarters for being biased against Russia.

So it's really, really time to move beyond the media blame game. There's conflict afoot.

They seem to be scrambling right now. Doesn't look like they have any "boots on nearby ground" to do any data gathering. They are all just passing along the same limited information.

430 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:53:56am

re: #416 godfrey

Russia's fear of Georgia was the general fear of having any kind of rival on its border.


You can't be serious.

431 socratease  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:54:10am

I would have thought Russia's actions in Georgia answered questions about their intentions rather than raising them.

432 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:54:42am

re: #345 WriterMom

Oy vey. Let's hope "I'm sending Condi to France" translates into "I want to keep her as far as hell away from my command centre as possible".

* * *
And not "Do you want fries with that, Mister Putin?"

433 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:03am

re: #361 kuffar

Read La Russophobe's timeline.

Then come back.

434 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:04am

Rush spoof:

Putin News Service
Putin: They look pretty small compared to Russia, but we cant take any chances.
I want to thank Obama for making the suggestion of the truce. I look forward to working with him.

435 Abu Lahab  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:09am

re: #298 Charles

Charles, have you also read this
What a freaking topic!
There's a blog specialized in following RBN activities.

436 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:22am

re: #414 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sucked to be an officer as well. Stalin purged most of the officer corps in the 30s for not being good Commies, replacing them with good party members. Then when the war broke out, he purged the party members for not being good officers.

And, to round things out, if you were a Soviet officer who was trapped behind enemy lines, even if you fought your way out and made it back to your own side... you were arrested as a traitor and shot. If you were captured by the Germans and held for the duration of the war, surviving despite appalling POW conditions, upon your "liberation" by the Red Army... you were promptly deported to a gulag.

437 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:27am

WHOA - OT - According to my mother (who's been watching Fox all day) a Black man fired three shots at the guy in charge of setting up the Democratic Convention in Denver.
Regrettably I have no other information than that.

438 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:41am

Peters is right about this:

Let's be clear: For all that US commentators and diplomats are still chattering about Russia's "response" to Georgia's actions, the Kremlin spent months planning and preparing this operation. Any soldier above the grade of private can tell you that there's absolutely no way Moscow could've launched this huge ground, air and sea offensive in an instantaneous "response" to alleged Georgian actions.

As I pointed out Saturday, even to get one armored brigade over the Caucasus Mountains required extensive preparations. Since then, Russia has sent in the equivalent of almost two divisions - not only in South Ossetia, the scene of the original fighting, but also in separatist Abkhazia on the Black Sea coast.

The Russians also managed to arrange the instant appearance of a squadron of warships to blockade Georgia. And they launched hundreds of air strikes against preplanned targets.

Every one of these things required careful preparations. In the words of one US officer, "Just to line up the airlift sorties would've taken weeks."

And it will take weeks, if not months, for us to be prepared to intelligently respond militarily. The planning has already started, but in the mean time we need to make sure that tossing Russia out of the G8 happens, and that we build up our alllies like Poland and the Baltic nations and Ukraine and Finland diplomatically.

I think we are doing all of the above, and I think Bush is doing really well right now.

And remember that lots of the folks who are no longer here used to scream BDS at me because I criticized the BS "hearts and minds" Iraq campaign in 2005 and 2006.

439 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:43am

re: #415 faraway

Please ding me down at #410

Didn't ding YOU down, just the moronic AP.

440 doppelganglander  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:56am

Rice was a Soviet specialist back when there was a Soviet Union. Now that it's making a comeback, she could actually be useful this time.

441 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:55:56am

re: #431 socratease

I would have thought Russia's actions in Georgia answered questions about their intentions rather than raising them.

Quite, but this is a diplomatic nicety along the lines of, "You talkin' to me?"

442 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:14am

re: #429 Russkilitlover

They seem to be scrambling right now. Doesn't look like they have any "boots on nearby ground" to do any data gathering. They are all just passing along the same limited information.

Fox News' Steve Harrigan is in Georgia. I heard a report from him this morning.

443 Partisan  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:35am

re: #379 faraway

"but maintaining a database of IP-to-country mappings would be a real
headache.

geoip

Wouldn't take into account Virtual Private Networks (vpn) and or
anonymizer services available on the web.

Better to judge posters by the quality of their arguments.

444 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:36am

re: #404 Macker

Speaky English!

ǝsǝuʍop-ǝpısdn ʞɐǝds ı

445 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:51am

re: #420 Sol Roth


I posted this article this morning in the Links about Google "disappearing" the features in Georgia's map. They are truly a loathsome outfit.


I always thought Sergey Brin sucked KGB milk - the fascist.

446 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:54am

re: #408 eaglewingz08

The Russians have had plenty of troops in the general vicinity for a long time now. Chechnya & Ingushetia are just north east of Ossetia. I'm sure the NSA was watching, but sometimes you get caught flat-footed thinking this is yet another regular troop rotation.

447 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:58am

re: #114 Dianna

The astonishing thing (to me) is how many Russian propagandists exist in this country.

Just think how much fun they could be if they still had the Soviet Union to do the Monica on.

448 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:56:58am

re: #420 Sol Roth

I posted this article this morning in the Links about Google "disappearing" the features in Georgia's map. They are truly a loathsome outfit.

[Link: blog.foreignpolicy.com...]

Correction. I TRIED to post it but was returned the "Link Already Posted" window. Couldn't find it in any category, but hat tip whomever found it first.

449 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:16am

re: #428 Dianna

I'm glad Kaine's words were all short, because he's going to be eating each and every one of them.

450 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:17am

re: #426 realwest

Uh, O.R.? IIRC, the F-35 is the so far called "Joint Strike Fighter" and is very, very good - but not a match, at all, for the F-22 for air
supremecy.

But the F-22 can't operate off carriers, or in a VSTOL capacity.
Also, it's wildly expensive; F-35 is more bang for the buck.

451 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:19am

re: #420 Sol Roth

Talk about insult to injury. "Sorry, your country doesn't virtually exist."

452 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:21am

re: #408 eaglewingz08

I want to know why the CIA, the NSA and the DIA have not seen the buildup that had to occur over the past month in Russia that was necessary to support this 'instantaneous' war? Whoever had this info and didn't pass it on should be given reassignment as there is no telling what other information these people now have but are sitting on.
As for the Obamanation he will obviously have to cut his travels to Hawaii short and go immediately to Moscow and have a tete a tete with Putin and Medvedev who upon being in the same room with the lightworker will immediately cease all war in Georgia, withdraw all their troops from the region and apologize to Georgia and the world for this misadventure.

Because the Russians had a major military exercise right on the other side of the border a few weeks ago.

Those things take months of planning....none of this is a coincidence.

453 Nevergiveup  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:22am

re: #437 realwest

WHOA - OT - According to my mother (who's been watching Fox all day) a Black man fired three shots at the guy in charge of setting up the Democratic Convention in Denver.
Regrettably I have no other information than that.

The head of the Arkensas Democratic Party.

454 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:45am

re: #416 godfrey

Correct. Russia was not provoked to invade.

Georgias hands are not totally clean in this. They have been promising South Ossetia more autonomy for years, each time pulling a Lucy/ Charlei Brown football trick. Georgia knows it's the souths goal to re-unite with the North which is in the russian fed, IIRC.

I'm not saying I support Russia in this mess. I'm only stating that Georgia is not the cherubic innocents

455 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:57:56am

re: #441 itellu3times

Quite, but this is a diplomatic nicety along the lines of, "You talkin' to me?"

456 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:03am

re: #424 kuffar

ABOUT FACE!

457 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:03am

re: #370 tfc3rid

Right, so it doesn't matter and the Dems will still gain 20 seats in November...

It's a damn shame because for once the GOP is standing up...

That is an awesome idea. Ask 20 people if they know why the Republicans are still in DC when the Democrats are on vacation.

What an excellent way to open the door if they say no.

"well, I heard they are working on an energy bill about drilling the oil shale and off shore and the Anwr. ....."

458 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:13am

re: #453 Nevergiveup

The head of the Arkensas Democratic Party.

I just read "white male"

459 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:21am

re: #429 Russkilitlover

They seem to be scrambling right now. Doesn't look like they have any "boots on nearby ground" to do any data gathering. They are all just passing along the same limited information.

Well of course it takes a little while to get in place. No one can teleport. But yes, there has indeed been a great deal of "on the ground" reporting from Georgia.

460 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:46am

re: #410 faraway

Oh, please. It means McCain put on his staff someone knowledgable about Georgia because McCain knew there was something going on in that part of the world and that it was important to have informed staff on that particular subject.

And somehow, the AP paints it as murky payoffs and backroom deals.

And somehow discussing a huge honking development in the world is "seizing" it for campaign reasons.

What they mean is, that in this issue, the polls are showing people who were all fine and happy with Obama when the sun was shining are really starting to question if he was such a good idea now that there are storm clouds, because, they're thinking, you know, it really does rain pretty often, now that they think of it.

461 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:48am

re: #423 WriterMom

You forgot about his aura! It's like, sooo peaceful.

Yeah, but you're a white woman, so your criticism of Obama is a coded racist message that black men are going to rape our women. You ought to be ashamed.

462 MoonbatBane  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:51am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Massive escalation -- you mean like this: Tank Buster

463 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:58:53am

re: #407 tfc3rid

I'm sure that the Red Army troops are following the strictest of rulesof engagement, similar to what our troops have to follow in Iraq...

Historically, the Russian Army's rules of engagement have otherwise been known as the Scorched Earth Policy, followed by Rape, Robbery and Mayhem.

464 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:05am

New York Times:

After Mixed U.S. Messages, A War Erupted in Georgia

During a private dinner on July 9, Ms. Rice’s aides say, she warned President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia not to get into a military conflict with Russia that Georgia could not win. “She told him, in no uncertain terms, that he had to put a non-use of force pledge on the table,” according to a senior administration official who accompanied Ms. Rice to the Georgian capital.

But publicly, Ms. Rice struck a different tone, one of defiant support for Georgia in the face of Russian pressure. “I’m going to visit a friend and I don’t expect much comment about the United States going to visit a friend,” she told reporters just before arriving in Tbilisi, even as Russian jets were conducting intimidating maneuvers over South Ossetia.

In the five days since the simmering conflict between Russia and Georgia erupted into war, Bush administration officials have been adamant in asserting that they warned the government in Tbilisi not to let Moscow provoke it into a fight — and that they were surprised when their advice went unheeded. Right up until the hours before Georgia launched its attack late last week in South Ossetia, Washington’s top envoy for the region, Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Fried, and other administration officials were warning the Georgians not to allow the conflict to escalate.

But as Ms. Rice’s two-pronged visit to Tbilisi demonstrates, the accumulation of years of mixed messages may have made the American warnings fall on deaf ears.

465 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:08am

It appears that Mr. Bush, or one of his advisors, has actually read "The Gathering Storm" by Winston Churchill.

466 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:20am

re: #404 Macker

Speaky English!

ما كنت لي ان اتكلم اللغة الانجلي& #1586;يه؟

What and deny me my chance to show off?

467 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:34am

re: #452 funky chicken

Good catch.

468 faraway  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:38am
described the man as in his 40s and white and drove off in a blue truck.
469 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 10:59:44am

re: #448 Sol Roth

Correction. I TRIED to post it but was returned the "Link Already Posted" window. Couldn't find it in any category, but hat tip whomever found it first.

Oh, good grief.

MS maps still have it.

[Link: maps.live.com...]

470 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:13am

re: #444 MandyManners

LOL

471 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:22am

re: #448 Sol Roth

Correction. I TRIED to post it but was returned the "Link Already Posted" window. Couldn't find it in any category, but hat tip whomever found it first.

I have had that happen too. Not infrequently with articles that are 15 minutes old in the middle of the night when no other links have been posted in a couple of hours. Happens to about 4 out of 5 links I try to post, so quite often I don't bother to post them.

472 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:25am

re: #464 reine.de.tout

Foggy Bottom strikes again.

473 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:26am

No, Georgia isn't cherubic, but they did nothing to provoke a massive Russian invasion.

474 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:43am

re: #437 realwest

WHOA - OT - According to my mother (who's been watching Fox all day) a Black man fired three shots at the guy in charge of setting up the Democratic Convention in Denver.
Regrettably I have no other information than that.

Chairman in Critical Condition Following Shooting

LITTLE ROCK — The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition Wednesday after an incident at the party headquarters, a party executive said. A television station reported that three shots were fired and that a man escaped the area in a blue truck.

A suspect has been shot and apprehended, police said.

/maybe check mom's meds

475 Cognito  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:49am

re: #448 Sol Roth

Correction. I TRIED to post it but was returned the "Link Already Posted" window. Couldn't find it in any category, but hat tip whomever found it first.

You, er... might want to read the whole thing:


Update: Google denies that it has made any changes to the map:

“We do not have local data for those countries and that is why local details such as landmarks and cities do not appear.”

Looks like we may have gotten a bit ahead of ourselves, though as NYT's Miguel Helf notes, Google does seem to have plenty of "local data" about Georgia in its Google Earth program.

476 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:00:58am

re: #468 faraway

anyone got an ABP out for John Edwards?

477 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:04am

re: #468 faraway

this is what we reap when we sow the race card

478 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:05am

re: #161 Charles

I am being barraged with emails attacking "La Russophobe," by the way, and screaming that I'm being unfair to the Discovery Institute. They're angry and raging that I've posted La Russophobe's article connecting the DI's Russia Blog with the "Russia Today" propaganda channel.

There's something very very stinky going on here. They may think they're going to intimidate me into shying away from the topic with these tactics, but it's achieving exactly the opposite.

Sorry for being so late on this Charles, but you offered people a chance yesterday to voice their questions directly to Liz...(I may have her name wrong)...the blog-master with La Russophobe's.

Perhaps another thread and invite her back to debate the subject.

479 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:06am

re: #445 Irene NYC

I always thought Sergey Brin sucked KGB milk - the fascist.

Not surprising given his birthplace. However, most Leftists take pleasure in destroying the very place that has sheltered and fertilized their creativity and entrepreneurship. It's a real sickness of the Left.

480 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:07am

re: #416 godfrey

Correct. Russia was not provoked to invade.

Georgia had no ambitions to annex territory north of the Caucasus and had neither desires nor plans to conduct raids. Russia's fear of Georgia was the general fear of having any kind of rival on its border.

Russia had everything to gain from stoking South Ossetian resistance and then igniting a blaze it could then swoop in to smother.

That's what happened. Georgia defended its federation militarily, and this was all the "provocation" Russia was waiting for.

Isn't that how the Russians inserted themselves into Afghanistan?

481 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:11am

re: #463 galloping granny

Historically, the Russian Army's rules of engagement have otherwise been known as the Scorched Earth Policy, followed by Rape, Robbery and Mayhem.

Right... So where is the outrage?

482 Serge GoFan  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:19am

re: #296 Saif al Kufr

Hi Charles,

I just want to say that although I took issue with the La Russophobe blog yesterday for its sophomoric content and unhinged commentary, both you and La Russophobe are right to be intrigued by the "Russia Blog"-Discovery Institute connection.

I think the connection here is the Russian Orthodox Church, which is both rabidly Russian nationalist and staunchly anti-modern (i.e. anti-evolution). It seems that the DI has successfully courted religious obscurantists of all stripes - Russian Orthodox, Evangelical, radical Islamist, etc.

And rabidly KGBistic too. Oh, BTW, who runs Russia?

483 eaglewingz08  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:25am

BTW I hope the US 'humanitarian' aid is going to be delivered by the Sixth Fleet sailing through the Black Sea.

I also think that Gov. Kaine's vice presidential status is plummeting below the Quayle floor.

484 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:26am

re: #448 Sol Roth

Correction. I TRIED to post it but was returned the "Link Already Posted" window. Couldn't find it in any category, but hat tip whomever found it first.

Not just Georgia but, Armenia and Azerbaijan!

485 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:01:54am

re: #460 Silhouette

Oh, please. It means McCain put on his staff someone knowledgable about Georgia because McCain knew there was something going on in that part of the world and that it was important to have informed staff on that particular subject.

And somehow, the AP paints it as murky payoffs and backroom deals.

And somehow discussing a huge honking development in the world is "seizing" it for campaign reasons.

What they mean is, that in this issue, the polls are showing people who were all fine and happy with Obama when the sun was shining are really starting to question if he was such a good idea now that there are storm clouds, because, they're thinking, you know, it really does rain pretty often, now that they think of it.

McCain himself is pretty knowledgeable about Georgia. He has made statements regarding the Russia-Georgia situation going back quite some few years - 2003 or 4 as I recall.

486 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:02:10am

re: #465 Ojoe

Bush has a degree in History and has continued to read it extensively, contrary to the meme that he is an illiterate ignoramus.

487 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:02:12am

re: #470 Suihei Deloi

LOL

Humor helps sometimes.

488 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:02:13am

re: #401 Silhouette

The Russians are asking a lot of our gullibility to accept the story that they were SO upset over Georgians firing at civilians that, in order to stop the firing at civilians, the Russians bombed the hell out of civilians.

that definately needed to be dinged up

489 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:02:36am

re: #185 Bubblehead II

Minuteman missile might be visible in pre-dawn launch

and

Unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile was successfully launched From Calif. Base.

The ICBM was launched at 1:01 a.m. PDT and its three unarmed re-entry vehicles traveled about 4,220 miles over the Pacific Ocean to targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands, an Air Force statement said.

I am sure this was planned well in advance of the current confrontation with Russia, but it still send a powerful message.

The Soviets Russians have had a serious problem with getting their latest generation of missiles to work.

490 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:02:46am

re: #476 Big Steve

anyone got an ABP out for John Edwards?

I'm sure the National Enquirer knows where he is 24/7

491 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:03:02am

re: #332 Occasional Reader

And I do hope you're mistaken about that.

He is. There is too much invested, too much complete, and absolutely nothing in the pipeline to replace it. We are already in Low Rate Initial Production. There is nothing stopping it now.

492 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:03:17am

re: #440 doppelganglander

Oh please. Someone posted a link from the State Department that said the Russian will not do something like this...what kind of expert is she really?

493 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:03:27am

re: #270 Silhouette

Obama has a real dilemma.

He must appear to say the opposite of McCain and Bush, but the opposite of what they are saying is so clearly wrong and/or weak to any voter watching. He can't come out in support of Russia. He can't appeal to the UN (again- there is only so much collassal ignorance of UNSC membership that the MSM can ignore for him). And he can't keep talking about how both sides are equally wrong.

What a pickle he is in, trying to look presidential when being presidential actually requires knowledge, decision, and leadership instead of platitudes and assurances of oceans receding and planets healing.

Yes! Plus the TelePrompter thing.

494 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:03:28am

The radio top of the hour news just reported that the first of the humanitarian cargo planes have landed in Georgia.

495 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:03:47am

re: #463 galloping granny

Historically, the Russian Army's rules of engagement have otherwise been known as the Scorched Earth Policy, followed by Rape, Robbery and Mayhem.

Oh, you mean a Number 7!

/Taggart

496 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:00am

re: #471 galloping granny

I have had that happen too. Not infrequently with articles that are 15 minutes old in the middle of the night when no other links have been posted in a couple of hours. Happens to about 4 out of 5 links I try to post, so quite often I don't bother to post them.

It was disconcerting given the immediacy of this situation. Maybe there's a glitch in the matrix?

497 willowone  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:20am

ouch that steve nelson chatter sure was pissy.

498 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:22am

re: #480 CIA Reject

Isn't that how the Russians inserted themselves into Afghanistan?

From what I recall, Russia overthrew Afghanistan's ruler, set up a Russian puppet, who then asked for Russian "assistance" in their civil war.

499 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:22am

re: #487 MandyManners

That's definitely true. : )

500 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:35am

Sheesh,
Google earth still has Gori listed as Leningori!
Why change it now? pimf!
Do we have Naval assets on the Black Sea?
or the Aegean Sea?How about Istanbul?

501 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:38am

re: #461 Kenneth

How well you know me.

502 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:57am

re: #481 tfc3rid

Right... So where is the outrage?

Last night we took the kiddo and her friend down to the pizza parlor for dinner. Went by the town square on the way, where oddly enough there were 10 or a dozen "anti-war" demonstrators. So, as this little nation is being steamrolled by Russia, what are these "anti-war" demonstrators protesting against? "US Out of Iraq" "Don't Bomb Iran." Not a peep about Georgia.

503 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:04:59am

re: #472 jcm

Foggy Bottom strikes again.

More like Foggy Bottom exposed again by getting caught with its pants down.

504 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:05:13am

re: #428 Dianna

I think his performance with this issue doomed his VP bid. He came off as another inexperienced young politician - exactly the opposite of what BHO needs.

To reinforce that speculation, I would note that the Convention Committee has given the big speech to Mark Warner (D), Virginia's next Senator - in order to "keep Virginia in play." Wouldn't need to do that if Kaine was still on the VP dance card.

505 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:05:25am

re: #476 Big Steve

anyone got an ABP out for John Edwards?

He was last seen headed to the golf course with Bill Clinton, Eliot Spitzer, and OJ Simpson...

506 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:05:51am

re: #486 Kenneth

Like I said upthread, let's hope and pray he is just as "stupid" as Reagan.

507 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:05:52am

re: #484 MandyManners

Not just Georgia but, Armenia and Azerbaijan!

Kind of like buying several copies of Better Homes and Gardens to cover one's baggy-enclosed literature purchase at the bookstore.

508 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:05:56am

re: #450 Occasional Reader

But the F-22 can't operate off carriers, or in a VSTOL capacity. Also, it's wildly expensive; F-35 is more bang for the buck.

Just so it's stealthy and can get into missile range, the missiles do most of the work anyway!

509 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:06:20am

re: #463 galloping granny

Historically, the Russian Army's rules of engagement have otherwise been known as the Scorched Earth Policy, followed by Rape, Robbery and Mayhem.

Everybody knows you rape and rob BEFORE the scorched earth.

510 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:06:27am

re: #450 Occasional Reader Well I didn't know that the F-35 could operate off of carriers, sorry bout that. And the "more bang for the buck" is also true, unless you're an F-35 pilot facing off against an F-22!

511 Iron Fist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:06:31am

re: #317 alegrias

I want us to get the US oil rigs humming. Fuck the caribou. Drill here, drill now!

512 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:06:49am

re: #480 CIA Reject

Isn't that how the Russians inserted themselves into Afghanistan?

They did in Iran also, Russia and Bulgarian proxies had a piece of the unrest that destabilized the Shah.

The Russians wrote the damn book on this shit.

Use agents to foment unrest in target country.
That unrest would have dual targets, Russian interests and the current regime.
Russia uses that unrest as an excuse for moving in to stabilize the situation and protect their interests.

513 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:07:05am

re: #418 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

To quote the great 20th-Century philosopher Nelson Muntz, "Haw-haw!"

* * *
But it's "volunteer work" like the DC summer jobs program for kids is "work"--Mayor Adrian Fenty pays $50 million to yoots who don't even show up.

514 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:07:31am

I hope that we send the 'aid' with a carrier group or two.....

515 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:07:49am

re: #508 itellu3times

Just so it's stealthy and can get into missile range, the missiles do most of the work anyway!

The stealthiness is key. Right now we have no real stealth capability for carrier-based airs operations. Imagine the expanded potential.

516 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:07:55am

re: #511 Iron Fist

I want us to get the US Fuck the caribou.

Can't do that. Ass too high, runs too fast.

/Old Indian joke

517 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #191 itellu3times

The thing to watch out for is when they shut down factories and sandbag the machinery and evacuate essential people. That means that they are about to carry out a first strike with nukes.

[Link: www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil...]

518 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:08:30am

re: #510 realwest

And the "more bang for the buck" is also true, unless you're an F-35 pilot facing off against an F-22!

Intra-service rivalry can be bad, but hopefully not THAT bad!

519 CIA Reject  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:08:35am

re: #498 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

From what I recall, Russia overthrew Afghanistan's ruler, set up a Russian puppet, who then asked for Russian "assistance" in their civil war.

OK, so maybe their a little more nuanced now...

520 mpax  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:08:38am

re: #452 funky chicken

Because the Russians had a major military exercise right on the other side of the border a few weeks ago.

Those things take months of planning....none of this is a coincidence.

But the Brits did see it, apparently. I read an online article to that effect this AM. Trying to find it.

521 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:09:02am

Well, good, no MiGs shooting missiles at our guys like this: MiG shoots down Georgian UAV before the invasion.

522 Sol Roth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:09:19am

BBL. Don't forget the Secy of State news conference at 1500 EST on C-SPAN 1. It may not be much, but it's intel.

523 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:09:42am

re: #512 jcm

Is that what they are doing now with BHO in the USA.

524 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:09:53am

re: #204 Sol Roth

Just to clear up this point: France has the (its a six-month-rotation) Presidency of the EU at the moment.
Thus - its not Sarkozy being a rbave Frenchman, he is representing the whole of the EU.
Thats why Rice is seeing him - not because France is suddenly a proper ally.

525 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:10:10am

via Drudge:
RUSSIAN FM: CHOOSE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND GEORGIA PARTNERSHIP... DEVELOPING...

526 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:10:13am

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

Just heard that Russian Prime Minister said the US had to choose between Georgia or Russia. In other words, "If you're not with us, you're against us." I'm getting nervous about this, anybody else?

527 redc1c4  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:10:34am

re: #116 kuffar

The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang.

If South Ossetia and Abkhazia did give Georgia cause, i.e. Seperatist Forces did attack Georgia proper, different matter.

If Georgians didn't actually move, Russians are pulling what amounts to Operation Himmler.

South Ossetia *is* part of Georgia....... why do they need special permission to defend their country?

528 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:10:49am

Bloomberg is reporting that the RussComm's might be shifting attention to taking care of the Ukrainians next. RussComm's also giving USA ultimatum to choose between them and Georgia.

Solution: place Ukraine into NATO immediately and start buying Polish vodka- it's a lot better anyway.

529 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:11:15am

re: #440 doppelganglander

Rice was a Soviet specialist back when there was a Soviet Union. Now that it's making a comeback, she could actually be useful this time.

I have found myself thinking about my friend who claimed that the Soviets broke up purely to ensure that I know nothing useful to any living human being.

530 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:11:26am

re: #525 seekeroftruth

How's George's poker game?

531 looking closely  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:11:51am

re: #464 reine.de.tout

New York Times:

After Mixed U.S. Messages, A War Erupted in Georgia

Blame America First!

532 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:11:56am

re: #485 galloping granny

McCain himself is pretty knowledgeable about Georgia. He has made statements regarding the Russia-Georgia situation going back quite some few years - 2003 or 4 as I recall.

Right. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. In fact, I was trying to point out that because McCain knew Georgia was important, and knew this waaaay before last week when Obama started playing catch-up, McCain was MORE likely, not less, to think that working as a lobbyist for Georgia was a GOOD thing on the resume of potential staff members.

533 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:12:24am

re: #526 kansas

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

Just heard that Russian Prime Minister said the US had to choose between Georgia or Russia. In other words, "If you're not with us, you're against us." I'm getting nervous about this, anybody else?

We are for the people and peace.

534 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:12:26am

re: #530 godfrey

How's George's poker game?

He made Saddam blink!

535 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:12:26am

Let's hope he's been practicing. This is high stakes.

536 jorline  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:12:53am

re: #526 kansas

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

Just heard that Russian Prime Minister said the US had to choose between Georgia or Russia. In other words, "If you're not with us, you're against us." I'm getting nervous about this, anybody else?


Rush just mentioned the PM's statement as well, but he wanted more information before commenting.

537 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:13:05am

re: #526 kansas Have been very nervous about this - where did you see or hear that?

538 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:13:06am

re: #225 Spider Mensch

The first US C-17 has landed in Tblisi...no link yet...

That was yesterday when they were returning the Georgian units from Iraq.

539 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:13:08am

re: #525 seekeroftruth

I pick Georgia!

540 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:13:33am

re: #533 itellu3times

We are for the people and peace.

Can't go wrong there.

541 seekeroftruth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:13:44am

re: #539 Dianna

I pick Georgia!

Me too!

542 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:14:25am

So if lefties are defending Russia in this, they're de facto supporters of "ethnic nationalists" in Abkhazia and Ossetia.

I thought lefties hated "ethnic nationalists" as anti-progressive knuckle draggers.

Oh, but it's the reconstitution of the USSR that's being achieved here. In that case, never mind.

543 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:14:54am

re: #526 kansas

Not particularly nervous, no. I'm pretty sure the Russians will back down, if sufficiently pushed.

All they have to do is wait, you know. We will get tired, or distracted, or lose our will, given enough time.

544 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:03am

re: #531 looking closely


Are you surprised?

545 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:06am

Sounds like the Russians are trying to get inside Bush's decision cycle. I hope this former combat aircraft pilot can out-OODA them.

546 DocDublU  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:26am

an excellent paper titled US-Russian Economic Relationship. the author identifies Putin as the head of a oil and gas lease protection racket.

[Link: www.brookings.edu...]

I'm astonished by the tiny investment and participation in the Russion economy the US has made over the past 10 years. We sell more goods to the DR than to the Bear.

Exit Question..as dependent as Russia is on oil / gas rent income, did they invade Georgia simply to stem the rapid drop in oil prices?

547 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:28am

re: #498 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

From what I recall, Russia overthrew Afghanistan's ruler, set up a Russian puppet, who then asked for Russian "assistance" in their civil war.

Didn't the Soviets come to Afghanistan on commercial jets?

548 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:42am

El Al sent in "rescue flights."

549 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:47am

re: #499 Suihei Deloi

That's definitely true. : )

Laughter is good medicine.

550 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:15:59am

Press Report Details Battle in the Black Sea

A Russian sailor speaking to Russian press,

"We took up station guarding the opposed landing on the Abkhaz shore when all of a sudden four high speed targets were detected. We sent out an IFF signal and the targets didn't react. Receiving a command from the flagship, we got into formation and right at that moment the unidentified targets opened fire on the ship formation and flagship. The cruiser was damaged and a small fire broke out aboard. Then, fearing for seaworthyness, the flagship withdrew from the firing area." - the sailor said.

"Right then the small missile boats clearly fired," the participant continued. "Taking up position, our MRK launched a "Malakhit" (SS-N-9) anti-surface missile, which literally cut the lead ship, the "Tbilisi" to ribbons. After that, fire was shifted to the rest of the Georgian ships. Another ship was damaged, we couldn't finish it off, allowing it to leave the scene under its own power.

551 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:16:16am

As my post #270 has been quoted several times, I'd like to say that it is embarrassing but mostly hilarious that I misspelled colossal while saying colossal ignorance.

552 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:16:30am

re: #502 galloping granny

Last night we took the kiddo and her friend down to the pizza parlor for dinner. Went by the town square on the way, where oddly enough there were 10 or a dozen "anti-war" demonstrators. So, as this little nation is being steamrolled by Russia, what are these "anti-war" demonstrators protesting against? "US Out of Iraq" "Don't Bomb Iran." Not a peep about Georgia.

Maybe it hasn't soaked into their brains yet.

553 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:16:45am

re: #539 Dianna Yeah, I'm with Georgia too.
This is already ugly and is going to get a lot more ugly very, very quickly.

554 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:17:23am

re: #507 Sol Roth

Kind of like buying several copies of Better Homes and Gardens to cover one's baggy-enclosed literature purchase at the bookstore.

Just roll over and suck up to the Soviet masters, Google.

555 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:17:45am

re: #545 Occasional Reader Uh, what does "out-OODA" mean?

556 SoftS  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:17:57am

re: #240 Pullus Iulius

Well put, and thanks. All of our Baltic friends have good reason for concern, as well as the Moldovans, Armenians and Azerbaijanis. Russia is interested in tidying up its imperial hem, and Georgia happened to have drawn the short straw. Gazprom didn't have an ownership stake in that fat oil pipeline before, but I bet it will now. Hope they choke.

Luckily for us (Baltic states) we are in NATO - so Russia had to think twice before attacking us :)

557 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:17:58am

re: #426 realwest

Uh, O.R.? IIRC, the F-35 is the so far called "Joint Strike Fighter" and is very, very good - but not a match, at all, for the F-22 for air
supremecy.

The F-35 Lightning II is sort of the cheaper little brother of the F-22. It was made leveraging the tech developed for the F-22, saving development costs and with the help of many international partners (which really had Raptor envy). It has more advanced avionics, again leveraged off of the F-22 and even the Comanche Advanced Helicopter technology base. It was designed with a different mission in mind than the F-22 and is not an air-superiority fighter. It is also the most advanced fighter that we will allow for export. Don't expect to see any other national flag on an F-22 anytime soon, and when you do eventually see one, it will likely be the UK, Australia, or Japan.

558 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:18:10am

re: #537 realwest

Have been very nervous about this - where did you see or hear that?

Listening to Limbaugh. He's not nervous, but I've been around a while and think this could get more ugly. I'm nervous.

559 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:18:28am

re: #545 Occasional Reader

At a guess? No.

Bush's response seemed slow to me, and I was very, very worried. Now, it looks like the "delay" was a matter of getting ducks in a row.

560 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:18:33am

re: #552 MandyManners
Maybe they don't have any brains for it to sink into.

561 Maximu§  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:18:47am

re: #525 seekeroftruth

via Drudge:
RUSSIAN FM: CHOOSE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND GEORGIA PARTNERSHIP... DEVELOPING...


I Choo-Choo Choose Georgia.

562 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:19:00am

re: #534 sattv4u2

He made Saddam blink swing!

563 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:19:26am

Black Sea Naval Update

The Government of Georgia has put out a statement regarding Russian naval activity in the Black Sea.

Facts of aggression committed by the Russian Black Sea Fleet

The landing force consisted of 4000 military personnel, battle tanks and other military hardware have been disembarked by the Russian Black Sea Fleet vessels in port of Ochamchira. The personnel have advanced towards the Kodori Gorge and attacked territory controlled by the Georgian side, while the battle tanks and other military hardware have advanced towards Senaki;

The details of 4000 troops if true suggests a major sealift operation. How did Russia manage that if indeed they were simply 'reacting' to Georgia. Nobody just 'reacts' to military confrontation with an all out amphibious assault on a city with poor port facilities involving sealift with 4000 troops. Just doesn't happen that quickly.

Proof this was planned in advance by the Russians.

564 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:19:39am

re: #546 DocDublU

No, that's too temporary a matter.

This is about territorial and resource control.

565 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:19:48am

re: #555 realwest

Observe-Orient-Decide-Act. Bascially they who can act faster than thier opponent wins.

566 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:08am

re: #543 Dianna

Not particularly nervous, no. I'm pretty sure the Russians will back down, if sufficiently pushed.

All they have to do is wait, you know. We will get tired, or distracted, or lose our will, given enough time.

So we gonna push or lose our will............well, not sure about "our" will since we are so fragmented.......not we at LGF by the way.

567 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:15am

re: #526 kansas

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

Just heard that Russian Prime Minister said the US had to choose between Georgia or Russia. In other words, "If you're not with us, you're against us." I'm getting nervous about this, anybody else?

FM, not PM.

Sergey Lavrov, or Putin?

568 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:16am

re: #523 de La Valette

Is that what they are doing now with BHO in the USA.

No, to visible. The Nuclear Freeze movement in Europe was the last big play in the west. They went for 3rd world countries. El Salvador, and other Central American States in the '80 suffered this plague.

If you want to look at things look at places like ACORN, SEIU, etc... for their finger prints in the US.

BHO is just a fortunate happenstance for them. He's already ideological in their camp, there's no way to have predicted or engineered his sudden rise.

569 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:18am

re: #562 MandyManners

hehe

570 Serge GoFan  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:41am

re: #528 barry the baptist

Bloomberg is reporting that the RussComm's might be shifting attention to taking care of the Ukrainians next. RussComm's also giving USA ultimatum to choose between them and Georgia.

Solution: place Ukraine into NATO immediately and start buying Polish vodka- it's a lot better anyway.

Immediately is the right word.
REPOST

Yushchenko “locks” Russian ships in Crimea


President of Ukraine Victor Yushchenko has adopted a procedure of movement of the Russian Black Sea Fleet units beyond its Sevastopol base.

The text of the Decree #705/2008 dated August 13, 3008, is posted at the official web site of the Ukrainian President.

The decree confirms and puts into actions the decision of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine made on Wednesday, August 13, 2008. The NCDS noted that Ukraine lacked a clear mechanism for coordination of movements of BSF military men, ships, and aircraft beyond its Sevastopol base. As a result, an uncontrolled, without any coordination, movement of military units and military men of foreign states takes place, which does not correspond to the national interests of Ukraine, and poses a potential threat to lives and health of Ukrainian citizens.

Considering the NSDC resolution, the President, with his Decree, confirmed a procedure of coordinating BSF movements beyond its base with competent state bodies of Ukraine. Thus, BSF should seek a permission no later than 72 hours prior to any planned movements.


permanent URL of article:
[Link: www.unian.net...]

571 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:20:54am

re: #563 Kenneth

Got the linky?

572 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:21:01am

re: #555 realwest

OODA explained.

573 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:21:10am

re: #553 realwest

Yeah, I'm with Georgia too.
This is already ugly and is going to get a lot more ugly very, very quickly.

A push will come soon. Russia will have to back down or shoot.

574 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:21:35am

re: #567 itellu3times

I think it was the FM not PM like I said.

575 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:21:45am

re: #570 Serge GoFan

Immediately is the right word.
REPOST

Yushchenko “locks” Russian ships in Crimea


President of Ukraine Victor Yushchenko has adopted a procedure of movement of the Russian Black Sea Fleet units beyond its Sevastopol base.

The text of the Decree #705/2008 dated August 13, 3008, is posted at the official web site of the Ukrainian President.

The decree confirms and puts into actions the decision of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine made on Wednesday, August 13, 2008. The NCDS noted that Ukraine lacked a clear mechanism for coordination of movements of BSF military men, ships, and aircraft beyond its Sevastopol base. As a result, an uncontrolled, without any coordination, movement of military units and military men of foreign states takes place, which does not correspond to the national interests of Ukraine, and poses a potential threat to lives and health of Ukrainian citizens.

Considering the NSDC resolution, the President, with his Decree, confirmed a procedure of coordinating BSF movements beyond its base with competent state bodies of Ukraine. Thus, BSF should seek a permission no later than 72 hours prior to any planned movements.


permanent URL of article:
[Link: www.unian.net...]

It's getting very interesting today.

576 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:21:51am

re: #556 SoftS

Not if we make a mess of our response to Georgia.

577 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:06am

re: #116 kuffar

Would someone please go offset my accidental up-ding of this comment?

578 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:10am

re: #563 Kenneth Hmmm, Russia has NEVER been known for her ability to carry out large scale amphibious assaults.
That this comes to us via Georgia makes me a little suspicious about the 4,000 number.
But whatever the number, the U.S. Navy had better get cracking!

579 Irene NYC  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:11am

re: #440 doppelganglander

Rice was a Soviet specialist back when there was a Soviet Union. Now that it's making a comeback, she could actually be useful this time.

Rice a Soviet specialist? Like Rice could speak Russian? Just a joke.

580 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:17am

re: #557 CyanSnowHawk

The F-35 Lightning II is sort of the cheaper little brother of the F-22. It was made leveraging the tech developed for the F-22, saving development costs and with the help of many international partners (which really had Raptor envy). It has more advanced avionics, again leveraged off of the F-22 and even the Comanche Advanced Helicopter technology base. It was designed with a different mission in mind than the F-22 and is not an air-superiority fighter. It is also the most advanced fighter that we will allow for export. Don't expect to see any other national flag on an F-22 anytime soon, and when you do eventually see one, it will likely be the UK, Australia, or Japan.

And Israel. A desert camo Raptor with blue Star of Davids will look mighty nice!

581 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:23am

re: #574 kansas

I think it was the FM not PM like I said.

Someone remind me, who that is, and what is Putin's current (official) title?

582 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:22:35am

re: #571 Suihei Deloi

Sorry, I dropped the link. Here you go.

583 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:23:11am

re: #565 Suihei Deloi
Ah, thank you!

584 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:23:31am

re: #567 itellu3times

Lavrov.

585 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:23:38am

re: #578 realwest

Yes, the numbers were questioned in the report. No surprise the Georgians are exaggerating the figures.

586 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:25:32am

re: #581 itellu3times


He is PM publicly.

He is known as the 'czar' everywhere else.

587 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:26:29am

re: #563 Kenneth

Now we know where they plan to refuel their fleet; I don't think the plan includes leaving anytime soon.

588 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:27:26am

re: #116 kuffar

The question I have is did the Georgians really move into South Ossetia and Abkhazia without provocation. If they did... Let Georgia hang.

If South Ossetia and Abkhazia did give Georgia cause, i.e. Seperatist Forces did attack Georgia proper, different matter.

If Georgians didn't actually move, Russians are pulling what amounts to Operation Himmler.

The Russians did indeed provoke the Georgians, and there are reports the Russians bombed South Ossetia and blamed it on the Georgians. The timing, size and order of battle of the Russian forces around Georgia indicate this was well planned by Russia. The Georgians may have fallen for a sucker punch but they were getting poked by the Russians for weeks before this.

589 HBob  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:27:52am

I am pleasantly surprised. God Bless George W. Bush, God Bless Georgia.

590 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:27:56am

re: #582 Kenneth

Ah, Information Dissemination. One of my favorites. Looks like the main Georgian Foreign Affairs site is back up.

591 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:29:02am

I'm not up to speed on everything yet, but where's the British? Shouldn't they be helping? They are still allies? Right?

...

592 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:31:10am

re: #572 Kenneth Thanks Kenneth, already explained to me.

It seems to me that RIGHT NOW the question is: Since Bush has said what he did about the US AirForce and US Navy going to Georgia for the delivery of humanitarian aid and since those humanitarian aid missions will not go "unprotected", will Putin's ego allow him to back down?
I don't believe Bush will back down - will Putin?

593 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:32:00am

re: #591 baxtrice

The Brits? You must be kidding.

594 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:32:27am

Hooyah, Yuschenko. That took guts!

595 de La Valette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:32:33am

Have to get Charles to put those Jamestown fellas in the link rotation!

596 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:33:05am

re: #593 barry the baptist

The Brits? You must be kidding.

I know it sounds naive, but have we truly lost them?

597 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:33:20am

re: #580 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And Israel. A desert camo Raptor with blue Star of Davids will look mighty nice!

Without demonstrating a significant need, nobody is getting them, and ally though they are, I don't see Israel getting them unless the Arab nations field something comparable, and that ain't gonna happen.

598 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:33:45am

re: #591 baxtrice

I'm not up to speed on everything yet, but where's the British? Shouldn't they be helping? They are still allies? Right?

...

They've been there before & things didn't work out so well.

599 realwest  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:34:09am

And, unfortunate timing, but I've gotta go mush lunch and take my meds NOW!
I hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

600 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:34:29am

re: #526 kansas

U.S. President George W. Bush said he is concerned by reports that Russia isn’t living up a provisional cease-fire in Georgia, warning that the Kremlin is putting its relations with the U.S. and Europe at risk.

Just heard that Russian Prime Minister said the US had to choose between Georgia or Russia. In other words, "If you're not with us, you're against us." I'm getting nervous about this, anybody else?

* * *
Russia was defying our sanctions with Saddam Hussein, getting rich off the Oil for Food UN program.

Little Georgia sent troops to IRAQ to fight with US.

I side with Georgia; Putin can go to hell.

601 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:34:48am

re: #598 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

They've been there before & things didn't work out so well.

Seems I've got some history to learn.

602 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:35:08am

Here's a redaction of the timeline La Russophobe posted:

2007

Last August, a Russian fighter fired a missile into Georgian territory. It didn't explode. No military response.

The ensuing fall, Ossetian separatists organize themselves, produce documents, and a large Russian military build-up gets underway.

2008

January. Georgians vote overwhelmingly to join NATO. Russian FM Lavrov says this "will lead to renewed bloodshed."

April. From those documents, Putin recognizes Ossetian separatists as cooperating with Moscow. A few days after Putin's recognition, a Russian MiG shoots down a Georgian UAV.

May. Georgian federation elections are considered free and fair by international observers.

June. UN investigation into the UAV downing confirms Russian action was an act of war. NATO warns Russia that its build-up is unacceptable.

July. Russia sends attack aircraft through Georgian airspace. In Ossetia, there's an assassination attempt on the pro-Georgian Ossetian leader.

August 6. Ossetians fire on Georgian villages and refuse talks with Tbilisi. Attacks escalate. Arms and paramilitaries pour through Roki tunnel.

August 7. Saakashvili calls for cease fire, promises full autonomy for South Ossetia, yet attacks continue on Avnevi, Tamrasheni, Prisi, Kurta. By 10:30 pm, Georgians finally return fire and send an armored column toward Tskhinvali.

Russia invades.

603 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:35:21am

re: #591 baxtrice

I'm not up to speed on everything yet, but where's the British? Shouldn't they be helping? They are still allies? Right?

...

The BBC is concerned with deciding who is winners and losers in the Georgia conflict.

604 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:35:39am

re: #594 godfrey

Hooyah, Yuschenko. That took guts!

What did? I'm trying to keep up, so much stuff going on . . .

605 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:36:17am

re: #591 baxtrice

The British have allowed their military to shrink to the point that now it is little more than a self defense

606 SpiritOf1683  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:36:34am

This humanitarian aid. Does it include Stingers and Javelins? It damned well ought to.

607 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:37:09am

re: #601 baxtrice

Seems I've got some history to learn.

Small wars, secondary theatres & oddball raids fascinate me. I've heard enough about The Western Front of WWI, how many people knew that the British fought against "The Army of Islam" in Baku at the same time?

608 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:37:14am

re: #581 itellu3times

Someone remind me, who that is, and what is Putin's current (official) title?

Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov

609 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:37:51am

re: #592 realwest

Thanks Kenneth, already explained to me.

It seems to me that RIGHT NOW the question is: Since Bush has said what he did about the US AirForce and US Navy going to Georgia for the delivery of humanitarian aid and since those humanitarian aid missions will not go "unprotected", will Putin's ego allow him to back down?
I don't believe Bush will back down - will Putin?

There's nothing for Putin to "back down" from. On paper, Russia has agreed to the cease fire. In that, he has no say in allowing the delivery of aid.

611 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:38:23am

re: #600 alegrias

* * *
Russia was defying our sanctions with Saddam Hussein, getting rich off the Oil for Food UN program.

Little Georgia sent troops to IRAQ to fight with US.

I side with Georgia; Putin can go to hell.

That would be an excellent outcome I'm sure we agree on that.

612 barry the baptist  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:38:28am

re: #596 baxtrice

I travel to the UK quite frequently. The majority of the populace there is uninterested in fighting for anything (I think). Like here, the loud lefties are in control of all media outlets, schools, etc so the majority of the population isn't very well informed about worldly events. What's interesting is that the Brits will voice their support for socialism then bitch about the amount of taxes that they must pay-of which are always increasing. They are also concerned about their lack of voting ability. The HoC there just 'passes' items without many referendums at all (e.g., Lisbon Treaty). Many people are starting to get very pissed off about that, but we'll see what happens.

613 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:38:32am

re: #582 Kenneth

Interesting was the mention of 4000 troops with associated hardware being landed at Ochamchira. ID's right. No way could 3 'gators and 4 Ropuchas (the amphibious portion of Black Sea Fleet) carry all of them. Russia would've either bring in more landing ships from elsewhere, or use civilian ships to make up the needed capacity. Which would've been horendously inefficient.

614 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:38:34am

re: #592 realwest

Thanks Kenneth, already explained to me.

It seems to me that RIGHT NOW the question is: Since Bush has said what he did about the US AirForce and US Navy going to Georgia for the delivery of humanitarian aid and since those humanitarian aid missions will not go "unprotected", will Putin's ego allow him to back down?
I don't believe Bush will back down - will Putin?

I think he will. IMHO He's not ready for a full out confrontation. It was a probe, testing the waters, he's thinking GWB is lame duck, hamstrung by a hostile congress.

615 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:39:06am

re: #604 reine.de.tout

Yuschenko just said to Russia that it needs to give Ukraine 72 hours notice before using its ships in Sevastapol for maneuvers.

616 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:39:21am

re: #594 godfrey

Hooyah, Yuschenko. That took guts!

* * *
Russia tried to MURDER Yuschenko. This is payback.

617 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:39:45am

re: #605 bulwrk

The British have allowed their military to shrink to the point that now it is little more than a self defense

Wow, I guess I expected them to be with us. Usually they are, kicking and screaming, though. :)

618 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:39:47am

re: #592 realwest

That's the BIG question. When the US C-17s fly in, we hope they have a fighter escort. Will the Russian pilots calmly observe or will one of them try some funny business? What will the US pilots' ROE be? If the Russians paint the US jets, will the US pilots sit tight or shoot at the Russians? This will be a high stakes game of chicken, no doubt. My money is on the US prevailing. Bush has raised the stakes and if he backs down now, the Russians have really won something.

I'm a complete amateur on these questions. Any US pilots here care to weigh in?

619 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:41:04am

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is an incredibly interesting week.

620 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:41:16am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

But how does that tie into the Disco Institute? Why would they be interested in pushing nationalist movements? What's in it for them?


Forgive me, KT, but I don't know how to do links yet. I was just going over some bookmarked articles from various threads here. IMO, the DI/Christian Dominionism connection (Dominionism sect wants to do away with secular law and install a "law of God as codified in the Bible" for our American society, not just impose the pseudo-scientific ID) links up well with Russian nationalist/ROC connection. Don't the Turkish creationists also want a return to religious rule? And we know that DI has no qualms about joining forces with them. Are the European nationalists/fascists like VB and BNP also anti-evolution/science, along the same lines as Pat Buchanan?

It just seems we're entering into a surreal convergence here.

621 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:41:19am

re: #607 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Small wars, secondary theatres & oddball raids fascinate me. I've heard enough about The Western Front of WWI, how many people knew that the British fought against "The Army of Islam" in Baku at the same time?

Very interesting, I'm a student of history, but I haven't done a lot of digging lately, been busy with collegiate material, you know, revisionist history.

622 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:41:34am

re: #572 Kenneth

OODA explained.

Oh hell - I thought it was one of Sadam's sons.

623 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:41:50am

re: #602 godfrey

Great time line. It thoroughly destroys the meme that the Georgians provoked this.

624 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:42:03am

re: #606 SpiritOf1683

Don't forget Barrett light fifty's for those pesky armored vehicles.

re: #610 JHW

The site's not coming up.

625 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:42:22am

re: #612 barry the baptist

I travel to the UK quite frequently. The majority of the populace there is uninterested in fighting for anything (I think). Like here, the loud lefties are in control of all media outlets, schools, etc so the majority of the population isn't very well informed about worldly events. What's interesting is that the Brits will voice their support for socialism then bitch about the amount of taxes that they must pay-of which are always increasing. They are also concerned about their lack of voting ability. The HoC there just 'passes' items without many referendums at all (e.g., Lisbon Treaty). Many people are starting to get very pissed off about that, but we'll see what happens.

I love the history of the British Isles and my ancestry is from there, so it saddens me to hear about these things.

626 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:42:41am

This is a dangerous situation. Russia gives every indication of being determined to conquer Georgia, if not with outright armies of occupation and victory parades, then by killing the leadership of Georgia and installing puppets together with an honor guard of spetsnaz "peacekeepers". France, Ukraine, and the U.S. don't approve. Where does Turkey stand? This is critical, because Turkey has the only NATO border with Georgia.

627 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:43:36am

re: #603 FurryOldGuyJeans

The BBC is concerned with deciding who is winners and losers in the Georgia conflict.

* * *
Last night the horrid BBC World news anchor "Filipa" (in DC?) was positively beaming with JOY that Russia was invading a small democracy.

628 JHW  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:43:42am

re: #624 Suihei Deloi

Hmm, strange I just tried it and it worked.

629 jcm  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:44:30am

re: #622 debutaunt

Oh hell - I thought it was one of Sadam's sons.

That was Uday, and he's deaday.

630 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:44:49am

re: #626 lostlakehiker

Turkey has stated support for Georgia. What they are prepared to DO about it is unknown. They definitely don't want a resurgent Russia on their doorstep.

631 kansas  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:44:57am

re: #608 kansas

Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov

Sorry thought you asked who was the FM.

632 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:44:57am

re: #627 alegrias

* * *
Last night the horrid BBC World news anchor "Filipa" (in DC?) was positively beaming with JOY that Russia was invading a small democracy.

Is checking one's soul at the door a hiring policy of the Beeb?

633 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:45:01am

re: #605 bulwrk

The British have allowed their military to shrink to the point that now it is little more than a self defense

* * *
Well, the British ARE paying lots of pounds to support up to four wives per unemployed mullah living on welfare.

Choices, choices.

634 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:45:36am

re: #615 godfrey

thanks.

635 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:45:51am

re: #627 alegrias

* * *
Last night the horrid BBC World news anchor "Filipa" (in DC?) was positively beaming with JOY that Russia was invading a small democracy.

The Soviet Union isn't dead, they just left & went to work for the BBC.

636 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:45:55am

re: #626 lostlakehiker

The Turks have no love of the Russians and have a long standing suspicion of them.

637 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:47:38am

re: #362 godfrey

So let me get this straight:

Russia is now a country dominated by amoral realpolitik robber baron oil and gas capitalist plutocrat types with imperial ambitions, and they've just invaded a sovereign nation, for the coarsest of economic reasons, and are brutally killing civilians, flipping the bird at international bodies, and showing no signs of stopping or remorse.

And yet, no lefties are running to Tbilisi to act as human shields.

I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

They know the Russians will shoot anyway.

638 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:48:07am

From ID - Press Report Details Battle in the Black Sea. Looks like Moskva's out of the fighting.

639 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:49:23am

re: #591 baxtrice

I'm not up to speed on everything yet, but where's the British? Shouldn't they be helping? They are still allies? Right?

...

The British are members of NATO and have to oeprate within that framework.
the British are also members of the EU. The presidency of the EU (rotates every 6 months) is currently held by France, thus President Sarkozy is the 'speaker', if you wish, for the EU. He is not acting on France's behalf - he is acting in concert with the whole of the EU.
(There are telephones and faxmachines in Europe, even PCs - the European leaders are in contact ...)

640 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:50:07am

re: #581 itellu3times

Someone remind me, who that is, and what is Putin's current (official) title?

Czar.
/

641 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:50:46am

Likely, this is the Moskva in question. The other was a helo carrier.

642 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:50:50am

re: #624 Suihei Deloi

Don't forget Barrett light fifty's for those pesky armored vehicles.

I don't know if a Barrett would be effective against even troops carriers (certainly not against main battle tanks). Javelin or Viper is a better bet.

643 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:51:39am

re: #605 bulwrk

The British have allowed their military to shrink to the point that now it is little more than a self defense

Can ye kindly take note that this wasn't 'The British', but the NuLab, stalinist government of Tony Blair and now Gordon Brown.

(A very pi$$ed-off Brit!)

644 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:52:40am

re: #639 yma o hyd

The British are members of NATO and have to oeprate within that framework.
the British are also members of the EU. The presidency of the EU (rotates every 6 months) is currently held by France, thus President Sarkozy is the 'speaker', if you wish, for the EU. He is not acting on France's behalf - he is acting in concert with the whole of the EU.
(There are telephones and faxmachines in Europe, even PCs - the European leaders are in contact ...)

Sorry, I guess I just expected something to come out of Britain along the lines of "We'll be sending aid too.."

645 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:54:37am

re: #627 alegrias

* * *
Last night the horrid BBC World news anchor "Filipa" (in DC?) was positively beaming with JOY that Russia was invading a small democracy.

Peacekeeper isn't on this thread, so it falls to me to say:

COMRADES!

646 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:55:40am

re: #604 reine.de.tout

He's blocking the Russian Black Sea Fleet from returning to Sebastapol, and also locking those ships in port down.

647 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:55:53am

re: #225 Spider Mensch

The first US C-17 has landed in Tblisi...no link yet...

Now that was a mission with a high degree of pucker factor!

648 Saif al Kufr  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:56:21am

Some connections between Discovery Institute and the Russian Orthodox Church. Tenuous, but interesting.

Orthodox Activists Burn “Da Vinci Code” Poster in Central Moscow

[Link: www.discovery.org...]

Russian Orthodox Church Demands End to Communist Practice of Exclusive Darwinism in Schools

[Link: www.lifesitenews.com...]

The defunct blog of Mamchur and Ganske:

intelligent.ru

[Link: english.intelligent.ru...]

649 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:57:02am

re: #642 Occasional Reader

I was thinking troop carriers. M82 with Mk. 211 Mod 0 would likely work against a thinly armored engine compartment. Of course, it'd be nice if the XM109's were out now.

650 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:57:05am

re: #646 Dianna

He's blocking the Russian Black Sea Fleet from returning to Sebastapol, and also locking those ships in port down.

It remains to be seen whether the Russians will just meekly go along with that. Does Ukraine have the military capacity to FORCE a Black Sea Fleet "lockdown"?

651 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:57:24am

Full time line of events in Georgia & Ossetia. Russia has been stirring things up since February, 2008.

652 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:57:32am

re: #607 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Small wars, secondary theatres & oddball raids fascinate me. I've heard enough about The Western Front of WWI, how many people knew that the British fought against "The Army of Islam" in Baku at the same time?

Me. But I honestly thought no one would care.

653 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:58:26am

re: #651 Kenneth

Good find.

654 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:59:00am

re: #494 seekeroftruth

That will make it even more interesting (not the best word, I know).

655 kuffar  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:59:31am

re: #588 Kenneth

Wait, the Russians pulled a False Flag? Got a link.

656 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 11:59:39am

re: #581 itellu3times

Thug In Chief, Former USSR.

657 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:00:18pm

re: #650 Occasional Reader

I sure as hell hope Yuschenko's decision was made with good intel about proximate Russian forces.

658 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:01:14pm

re: #570 Serge GoFan

WOW!

659 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:01:36pm

re: #651 Kenneth

Ahh.... that's good. Thank you.

660 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:01:44pm

re: #644 baxtrice

Sorry, I guess I just expected something to come out of Britain along the lines of "We'll be sending aid too.."

Yeah - but please don't forget that our Armed Forces, while highly professional, are much smaller than yours in the USA (just check the size of the two populations!) and is currently fighting in the GWOT at your side both in Iraq and in Afghanistan, where over 100 of our soldiers were killed in the last six weeks.
And please do also not forget that the British Governemnt is in fact 9and ahs been since 1997) a more than LLL, NuLab, stalinist government which would be highly praised by the KosKidz, I'm sure.
Yes, we voted them in, no wodner after 17 years of Tory government! Our political and electioning system is very different from that in the USA ... and, iirc, Tony Blair was very much liked and admired in the USA while we were already calling him Tony Bliar ...

Sorry to rant on - but in regard to my country I'm a bit sensitive when remarks are made which are not really founded in reality.

661 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:02:05pm

re: #657 godfrey

So far, the ballsiest move not made by the Russians. Although the humanitarian aid thing is pretty good, too.

662 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:02:05pm

re: #649 Suihei Deloi

I was thinking troop carriers. M82 with Mk. 211 Mod 0

I *think* that's the ammo I fired on my one and only (so far) Barrett shooting experience. Tons of fun.

663 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:02:53pm

The LLLs at huffpo are already bitching about us sending in humanitarian aid.

wmbear

Know what B_ush is looking for? He's just looking to put American military hardware (in the form of transport planes) in harm's way, so he'll have an excuse to start WWIII -- the consummate idiot!

664 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:03:28pm

re: #660 yma o hyd

Some of your SAS and SBS lads might come in awfully handy in the Caucasus in the coming days.

665 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:03:43pm

re: #650 Occasional Reader

I don't know; I'm not all that good at assessing military ability.

There is - to my mind - at least the chance of being able to stress the Russians past their ability to sustain. Which may be what Ukraine is after, at least in the short term.

666 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:04:09pm

re: #660 yma o hyd

When people dump on the UK here, it's mostly because of the current dhimmi attitudes toward "Asians". I would say that people here are very respectful and keenly aware of the great contributions made by the British in previous world wars and in current conflicts.

667 godfrey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:04:44pm

LLL's have nothing to offer but their impotent rage, which is merely amusing.

668 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:05:18pm

re: #660 yma o hyd

I'm sorry, I meant no disrespect. I am of British ancestry and have great respect for the English, I don't know much about the government structure except for the Leftist/Socialist have pretty much taken over, but usually when the chips are down, we can count on Merry ol' England.

669 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:05:33pm

re: #663 Bubblehead II

Oh, dear.

670 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:05:35pm

re: #665 Dianna

I don't know; I'm not all that good at assessing military ability.

There is - to my mind - at least the chance of being able to stress the Russians past their ability to sustain. Which may be what Ukraine is after, at least in the short term.

It is indeed a hugely ballsy/ovary-y move on the Ukrainians' part. Risks of course handing Putin a pretext for moving against them next. But I think you may be right, there may be a rational calculation here that the Russian army isn't capable of sustaining this tempo against additional targets.

671 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:05:36pm

re: #663 Bubblehead II

Someone pointed out earlier-that aid is a truly what can be considered a human shield. Unlike BS "human shields" offered up in other conflicts ie: whacko Jew-hating moonbats as 'human shields' against the IDF on behalf of murderous Palestinians.

672 JHW  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:05:55pm

re: #651 Kenneth

Good report, and it can be argued, they've been stirring things up even longer. I've posted a little on another thread about a lot of anti-Georgian actions and propaganda in 2006. Here' s an article, admittedly from a leftist source although it appears to be accurate from what I've seen via other sources.Nov. 2006., Stirring up anti-Georgian feeling in Russia Ethnic Cleansing in Russia

673 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:06:12pm

re: #667 godfrey

impotent rage

Consider that baby LIBERATED. LOL.

674 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:06:22pm

re: #667 godfrey

LLL's have nothing to offer but their impotent rage, which is merely amusing.

I wish I found it amusing.

675 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:06:42pm

re: #670 Occasional Reader

hugely ballsy/ovary-y

OMG. ROFL.

676 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:07:06pm

re: #662 Occasional Reader

I haven't had the opportunity. Heaviest thing I got to fire was a .50 on tripod mount.

You know this reminds me of something I saw on tv years back about a Serb immigrant. Can't remember the name, but the guy was raising money, buying civilian .50 rifles. He then was shipping them via several hops to Serbia as "farm equipment". I think it was on 20/20 or Dateline. Not sure.

677 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:07:21pm

Does anyone have a good source for evaluation of current Russian military capabilities? Their forces were roundly panned as of about 6-7 years ago, then I stopped hearing about them.

678 Dianna  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:07:35pm

re: #670 Occasional Reader

Don't discount the "if we don't hang together..." thought, either. Ukraine must know it's on Russia's menu.

679 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:07:41pm

re: #660 yma o hyd

I was not trying to slight the professionalism of your military just its size.

680 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:08:10pm

Puta is not backing down....Interesting

I'm almost 70, but I can still pull a pretty mean trigger.....slowly

681 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:08:12pm

re: #676 Suihei Deloi

Heaviest thing I got to fire was a .50 on tripod mount.

Well, that certainly counts!

682 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:08:25pm

re: #677 Occasional Reader

Does anyone have a good source for evaluation of current Russian military capabilities? Their forces were roundly panned as of about 6-7 years ago, then I stopped hearing about them.


* * *

DOesn't Janes do that?

683 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:08:28pm

re: #655 kuffar

Not an unequivocal report, but inconsistencies in the time line of events from Sunday and the contradictions in official reports from Tsiblisi & Moscow. Moscow claims the Georgians bombed the "capital" of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali. The Georgians deny responsibility. Yet the city was bombed (artillery & rockets) as Russian troops advanced and Georgians withdrew. This was in addition to the damage from direct fighting between Russians & Georgians in & around the city. Typically, withdrawing forces don't bomb a city as they leave.

684 alegrias  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:08:59pm

re: #680 Dizzy26

Puta is not backing down....Interesting

I'm almost 70, but I can still pull a pretty mean trigger.....slowly

* * *
Good for you! Thanks for offering.

685 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:09:34pm

re: #664 Occasional Reader

Some of your SAS and SBS lads might come in awfully handy in the Caucasus in the coming days.

Can't find it now - but apparently the SAS was lending a big hand in rounding up alQaeda cells in Baghdad - or so Gen Petraeus said.
Thing is - the SAS never, but never, speaks about where they are going or what they are going to do, there is simply no fanfare, and they keep the secrecy pretty well.
(They do some of their hardest training in our Welsh Mountains ...)

Yep - if things hot up I'm sure the SAS will go in, somewhere where they can do the greates damage.

686 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:10:02pm

re: #682 alegrias

* * *

DOesn't Janes do that?

Yes, but I believe the good Janes' stuff is subscription-only. I want something FREE FREE FREE. Paying is for suckers, man! Just like I want free health care!

687 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:11:20pm

re: #681 Occasional Reader

That was years ago, and only once. Most of what I got to mess with was smaller stuff - M-14s, '16s, pistols, the occasional shotgun.

688 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:12:08pm

re: #671 WriterMom

True, just pointing out that the moonbats are already bitching about it. I wonder what they would be saying if it was the IRC with civilian planes going in?

689 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:12:28pm

re: #676 Suihei Deloi

I haven't had the opportunity. Heaviest thing I got to fire was a .50 on tripod mount.

Same here - I was "volunteered" for some duty in ROTC & missed out on Claymore Day. So to compensate, they let me fire off a few on a .50 - good times.

690 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:13:37pm

re: #666 WriterMom

When people dump on the UK here, it's mostly because of the current dhimmi attitudes toward "Asians". I would say that people here are very respectful and keenly aware of the great contributions made by the British in previous world wars and in current conflicts.

Sigh.
I know - and the worst thing is that even that dhimmi attitude isn't down to us Brits, but down to all those NuLAb politicinas, not just in Parliament but in the local councils as well.
No, we're not just bitching about it - the Tories are really coming, and thats why Gordon Brown unfortunately clings on, he knows that whenever he calls a General election he'll lose it, and by a huge chunk. Tories are ahead of Labour by about 20 points ... and then there'll be an end to dhimmitude, and an end to the scandalous treatment of our Armed Forces.

691 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:13:56pm

re: #689 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I was a squid. Became a dirt sailor later. I guess some others have all the fun.

692 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:14:09pm

re: #643 yma o hyd

Can ye kindly take note that this wasn't 'The British', but the NuLab, stalinist government of Tony Blair and now Gordon Brown.

(A very pi$$ed-off Brit!)

The worst enemy of the British Armed Forces is the British Socialist Politician.

693 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:14:14pm

Would someone be kind enough to let me know where I can get info on
blogging techniques and etiquit?

I would like to learn how to cross out words, (with lines) and cool stuff like that.

All I can do now is make smiley faces :-)

694 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:15:10pm

re: #668 baxtrice

I'm sorry, I meant no disrespect. I am of British ancestry and have great respect for the English, I don't know much about the government structure except for the Leftist/Socialist have pretty much taken over, but usually when the chips are down, we can count on Merry ol' England.

I know - it just got up me nose, sorry!
And, btw - you can also count on the Scots, the (Northern) Irish and of course the Welsh!

695 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:15:29pm

re: #693 Dizzy26

Just above the comment box, to the right, there are buttons for strike, bold, italics, quoting someone, and linking.

You highlight your text and press the button and voila! For links, you get a pop-up box that you paste the URL into.

696 Silhouette  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:16:20pm

re: #693 Dizzy26

Note the S, B, I, "", and paper clips at the top of box where you type? They are strikeout, bold, italics, quote, and add-a-link, respectively.

Enjoy.

697 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:16:47pm

re: #695 WriterMom

Just above the comment box, to the right, there are buttons for strike, bold, italics, quoting someone, and linking.

You highlight your text and press the button and voila! For links, you get a pop-up box that you paste the URL into.

Thanks.........I think..
I'll try to interpret your info now.

698 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:17:37pm

re: #694 yma o hyd

I know - it just got up me nose, sorry!
And, btw - you can also count on the Scots, the (Northern) Irish and of course the Welsh!

Good to hear! Just don't let Amy Winehouse get up your nose! ;-}
That's some scary stuff!

699 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:17:39pm

re: #690 yma o hyd

Hopefully you will have a changing of the guard. Here in Canada-having Stephen Harper in command has made a really positive impact. Better morale for our armed forces, and many moonbat heads exploding. He just cut a public gravy train program for "the arts". Moonbat "artists" are going nuts. He is openly pro-Israel, it's really refreshing.

700 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:18:28pm

re: #679 bulwrk

I was not trying to slight the professionalism of your military just its size.

Yeah, well, there are only about 50 million of us against your 250 or so million .... can't have the whole country serving in the Armed Forces ...
Mind, NuLabour has done its damnestest to cut them back in size - while at the same time asking more and more of them.

Thats why i keep chiming in about BO here, because just that is going to happen in the USA if he gets into the White House.

701 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:19:22pm

re: #693 Dizzy26

When you post a comment, 5 tabs appear in the right hand side of your entry box - Strike, Bold, Italic,

Quote

and link. Highlight what you wish struck, bold-faced, italicized, quoted, or linked-to, then press the corresponding tabs.

702 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:19:54pm

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I found them..! Thanks all for your help and time.

Greatly appreciated

703 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:20:15pm

re: #692 The Other Les

The worst enemy of the British Armed Forces is the British Socialist Politician.

Ain't dat the troof!
And thats why you must not let that empty suit, a.k.a BO, near the White House!

704 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:20:30pm

re: #700 yma o hyd

Speaking of BO, where is he -- shouldn't he be chaining himself to something, singing "Give Peace a Chance" (no offense to John and Sir Paul) -- LOL

705 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:20:50pm

re: #686 Occasional Reader

GlobalSecurity is a good start.

Also this portion of ths FAS website. Somwhat dated, but still useful.

706 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:21:00pm

re: #660 yma o hyd

Sorry to rant on - but in regard to my country I'm a bit sensitive when remarks are made which are not really founded in reality.

Not a fan, myself, of those kinds of broadly painted remarks. Many here have some sort of ancestral connection to the UK (in my case, Wales), and are very proud of that.

707 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:21:35pm

just testing, trying it out

708 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:22:01pm

re: #698 baxtrice

Good to hear! Just don't let Amy Winehouse get up your nose! ;-}
That's some scary stuff!

Gah! Thats another scandal - all those celebrities doing charlie, and the police just tippy-toeing round them ...

709 Wendya  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:22:28pm

re: #683 Kenneth

Typically, withdrawing forces don't bomb a city as they leave.

Bombing and looting a city on the way out is pretty much the Russia MO.

710 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:22:32pm

re: #322 mpax

In addition, download the GOP toolbar. Just searching through that portal I've added a 1.33 in just a couple of days. Not a lot, but it all adds up.

I'm still at .60, my browser accidentally set my search back to google.

711 Suihei Deloi  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:22:33pm

re: #705 Suihei Deloi

Oops. Getting lysdexic today.

712 Dizzy26  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:22:41pm

Damn that's easy...and cool. I'll waste no more of your time. Thanks again everyone.

713 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:24:26pm

re: #699 WriterMom

Hopefully you will have a changing of the guard. Here in Canada-having Stephen Harper in command has made a really positive impact. Better morale for our armed forces, and many moonbat heads exploding. He just cut a public gravy train program for "the arts". Moonbat "artists" are going nuts. He is openly pro-Israel, it's really refreshing.

Thats excellent!
Just like - on a much muich smaller scale, of course! - Boris Johnson did in London, cutting off funding to various 'race-relation' groups which did nothing but enrich the leaders of said groups - all friends of Ken Livingston, of course ...
(Haven't been any race riots in London, in spite of these cuts!)

714 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:26:37pm

re: #708 yma o hyd

Gah! Thats another scandal - all those celebrities doing charlie, and the police just tippy-toeing round them ...

Celebrities, doing drugs, no police to bust them..sounds very familiar..Hollywood? Ha ha, it doens't surprise me in the least. Of course I don't really go in for the "celebrity fanclub" anymore. Used to, I apparently grew out of that phase.

715 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:28:18pm

re: #706 reine.de.tout

Not a fan, myself, of those kinds of broadly painted remarks. Many here have some sort of ancestral connection to the UK (in my case, Wales), and are very proud of that.

Ah - whereabouts in Wales? Huge tribal differences between the South and the North here ...
We've just had an enormous boost to our national pride, with our girl from near Bridgend, Nicole Cooke, winning gold in the street race (bike).
Been a brilliant sporting year for us in Wales - Joe Calzaghe, World Champ in boxing, Nicole Cooke, Olympic Champ - and of course the much coveted and difficult to achieve Grand Slam in Rugby this year.

(The English hate us, teeheehee!)

716 yma o hyd  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:30:34pm

re: #714 baxtrice

Celebrities, doing drugs, no police to bust them..sounds very familiar..Hollywood? Ha ha, it doens't surprise me in the least. Of course I don't really go in for the "celebrity fanclub" anymore. Used to, I apparently grew out of that phase.

Well - one can't really escape it as its splashed all over the front pages of the daily boulevard papers here - which are all national papers, seeing that the UK is pretty small in size, area-wise, compared to the USA.

717 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:31:01pm

re: #693 Dizzy26

Strike
Bold
Italic

quote


Link

Highlight the text you want modified, then use the buttons on the upper left of the edit box. It will add basic html tags to your text, and you will see it when posted or previewed.

You can also add some other basic html tags yourself if you like, for instance,

This is superscript
This is subscript

Plus several other fancy things used commonly by some other lizards. To see how to do it, hit the quote button on a comment that has the effect you want, and the tags will be in brackets < > before (open tag) and after (close tag) the text with that style.

html tags are formatted like this

open tag < command >
close tag < /command >
but there is no space after the < (I had to put it there so you could see it in the comment)

That is about all there is to basic html.

718 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:32:09pm

re: #421 Kenneth

Is there connection between the Kurdish PKK’s bombing of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline in Turkey & the Russian invasion of Georgia 72 hours later? Let’s keep in mind that the PKK is a communist group - the Kurdistan Worker’s Party - and therefor the type of rebel group that stays near Putin’s KGB heart.

Things that make you wonder.

719 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:34:38pm

re: #426 realwest

Uh, O.R.? IIRC, the F-35 is the so far called "Joint Strike Fighter" and is very, very good - but not a match, at all, for the F-22 for air
supremecy.

Uh, it wasn't supposed to be. Different mission.

720 baxtrice  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:37:00pm

re: #716 yma o hyd

Well - one can't really escape it as its splashed all over the front pages of the daily boulevard papers here - which are all national papers, seeing that the UK is pretty small in size, area-wise, compared to the USA.

Oh it's hard to get away from it in the USA, but I have been perfecting my technique for many years of IGNORE ALL SH*T. LOL
I call it uber stealth focus technique. Zero out the celebrity and fame stuff, pay attention to the important stuff, lately though, I've just zoned almost everything out and got all my news from LGF. I LURVE this site.

721 Wm T Sherman  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:40:35pm

re: #273 Spider Mensch

another interesting bit of info off of ynet, very interesting..
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

If true, then I say, freaking brilliant move.

722 strandedsf  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:49:01pm

I don't think there's gonna be any confrontation. Putin will back down immediately. I think his goal was just to see how far he could go. Just a practice run, as it were.

723 hippieforlife  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 12:55:11pm

Well, wouldn't you know it. The Huffpo's had to close comments on a story regarding this current conflict.

Obviously it is all the fault of Bush, McCain, Rice, etc. A few commenters were brave enough to point out that this is a serious situation, not a US political issue. They just can't get it through their thick heads that not everything is about them!

724 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 1:27:28pm

...

725 Right Brain  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 1:28:16pm

How about we send in some Predator's for "Humanitarian aid."

[Link: www.futurefirepower.com...]

726 kuchuklambat  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 2:10:24pm

re: #722 strandedsf

not just a practice run, this is a demonstration of a smackdown, to hurt Georgia in all kinds of (mostly economic) ways as a show to other former satellites. Like the Yukos smackdown to get other oligarchs in line. Thats an M.O for these goodfellas.

727 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 2:33:47pm

re: #597 CyanSnowHawk

Without demonstrating a significant need, nobody is getting them, and ally though they are, I don't see Israel getting them unless the Arab nations field something comparable, and that ain't gonna happen.

"CSH" -

I do suspect that when the time comes there will be an IAF F-35I, properly stripped down and tweaked. An F-22I not so much.

-S-

728 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 3:39:25pm

OK Everyone -

I have a question - WHY has Russia NOT been able to take down GEORGIA since 8/8/2008 a-la Czechoslovakia 1968? Is it Russian Forebearance - OR - More Likely - Russian Incompetence. Discussion?

-S-

729 Lawrior  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 7:54:42pm

re: #2 Cognito

Peace through superior firepower!

Honestly, it is a shame it took us this long to send troops. I think we should have been starting airlifting troops in Sunday morning.

730 Lawrior  Wed, Aug 13, 2008 7:57:38pm

re: #728 Dr. Shalit

OK Everyone -

I have a question - WHY has Russia NOT been able to take down GEORGIA since 8/8/2008 a-la Czechoslovakia 1968? Is it Russian Forebearance - OR - More Likely - Russian Incompetence. Discussion?

-S-


My guess is that they are choosing not to crush Georgia at one time. If they slowly creep across the country, responding to "uprisings" along the road to Tblisi, they can get away with reclaiming Georgia by force.

731 SlothB77  Thu, Aug 14, 2008 8:23:05am

What this is is the Russian nation once again feeling pride. They're feeling pride and as they go into Georgia and South Ossetia and start murdering innocent civilians, you're not going to see Russian citizens marching in Moscow with "No Blood For Oil Signs." You're not going to see the Russian citizens demanding humanitarian aid. The Russian citizenry is going to stand up and applaud because they got their national pride back.

vdh

so very true


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