The world can forget about the UN doing anything about it.

It was a candid statement -- no propaganda spin.

/gotta give it that

They certainly have made that clear, haven't they?

There is no Georgia- there is only Mother Russia.

re: #1 jemima

The world can forget about the UN doing anything about it.

Russia has a veto at the UN. Who in their right mind would think that the UN even has the power to do anything about it?

I hope Krauthammer is right and we go on the offensive.

"What is ours is ours, what is your is negotiable"

--Leonid Brehznev

/The Bear is Back!

Appears that the old Soviet bear has come out of hibernation.

It looks like they are going to install a puppet government. Maybe later this week.

'kay then forget about seeing any of the troops or equipment in Georgia again.

re: #7 CIA Reject

"What is ours is ours, what is your is negotiable"

--Leonid Brehznev

/The Bear is Back!

The bear never left. He was just hibernating.

I'm guessing "Forget" was a TV-friendly translation of the actual word.

re: #5 galloping granny

Barack Obama

re: #7 CIA Reject

"What is ours is ours, what is your is negotiable"

--Leonid Brehznev

/The Bear is Back!

We just want the eastern half of your western sandwich - relax.

re: #1 jemima

The world can forget about the UN doing anything about it.

Precisely the case against our continued membership in the UN. When totalitarians are on equal footing with democracies, something pathological is going on.

re: #5 galloping granny

Russia has a veto at the UN. Who in their right mind would think that the UN even has the power to do anything about it?

BTW, jemima, I was not alluding to you thinking that the UN had the power to do anything. Sorry if it seemed like that. I was thinking of HRH Obama's demand that the UN get right on it.

The disputed regions have been under de facto Russian control for a while now.

If that is all Georgia loses as a result of this conflict are two regions they don't have any control over anyway, then they should consider themselves lucky.

re: #11 galloping granny

The bear never left. He was just hibernating.

Wait.....just a minute ago, the bear was swimming around looking for an iceberg.......I'm so confused

re: #11 galloping granny

The bear never left. He was just hibernating.

Yup - looks like this guy was right all along!

#5

What's the UN for but to take "diplomats" from their stinking hellhole dictator run, thuggish countries and give them the opportunity to live in the civilized world, eat at the best restaurants and double-park with impunity. And of course give free rein to the French peacekeepers in Cote d'Ivoire to rape little girls.

And this is their chief diplomat, mind you, announcing "we're thugs! Hey-oooh!".

So much for all that "end of history" crap, Mr. Fukuyama.

This makes ballistic missile defense even more imperative. So much for the ignorant "Peace Dividend". Time to ramp the military back up to what it was under Reagan.

re: #5 galloping granny

Russia has a veto at the UN. Who in their right mind would think that the UN even has the power to do anything about it?

Barry O - oh, wait - you said "right mind", didn't you?

If that is all Georgia loses as a result of this conflict are two regions they don't have any control over anyway, then they should consider themselves lucky.

PIMF

The Cold War has been resurrected like a vampire that has had the stake removed from it's heart. Funny I have read a lot of science fiction stories with that premise behind it.

/and it always seems to be the military sci-fi for some reason.

Mother Russia will bilk NASA on trips to the ISS when the Shuttle retires.

re: #14 debutaunt

We just want the eastern half of your western sandwich - relax.

Well, assuming he can figure out east from west on a map I'm sure (G*d forbid!) President Obama will fix everything just fine....

One Russian colonel, who refused to give his name, blamed the fires on looters.

I would sure as hell like to know just WHO the looters were. We've read reports of South Ossetian irregulars traveling with the Russian troops. If SO's are looting Georgian homes, that damns them in my eyes.

/In fairness, I suspect that few hands are clean in this mess.

No wisdom in fighting over Georgia, probably not Ukraine either or those three little dots up there on the Baltic coast. Poland? Maybe Poland.

re: #20 jemima

#5

What's the UN for but to take "diplomats" from their stinking hellhole dictator run, thuggish countries and give them the opportunity to live in the civilized world, eat at the best restaurants and double-park with impunity. And of course give free rein to the French peacekeepers in Cote d'Ivoire to rape little girls.

You forget the various enrichment programs they run for their delegates & cronies.

re: #26 marge45b

Mother Russia will bilk NASA on trips to the ISS when the Shuttle retires.

I suspect we'll be re-thinking that decision.

re: #1 jemima

The world can forget about the UN doing anything about it.

A pair of balls beats a full house.

re: #22 Iron Fist

This makes ballistic missile defense even more imperative. So much for the ignorant "Peace Dividend". Time to ramp the military back up to what it was under Reagan.

I hate to display my ignorance, but what the heck....

How would missile defense have helped Georgia......or help the other balkan countries in similar circumstances?

re: #21 Occasional Reader

And this is their chief diplomat, mind you, announcing "we're thugs! Hey-oooh!".

So much for all that "end of history" crap, Mr. Fukuyama.

Any author with a name like that has to be trouble.

Wow! What next, China moves on Taiwan?
OK President Bush, I have long been an admirer and supporter. What do we do now?

re: #28 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I would sure as hell like to know just WHO the looters were. We've read reports of South Ossetian irregulars traveling with the Russian troops. If SO's are looting Georgian homes, that damns them in my eyes.

/In fairness, I suspect that few hands are clean in this mess.

In fairness, I suspect there are an awful lot of clean and innocent hands among the 4 million residents of Georgia, very few of whom signed up to be bombed, raped or looted.

“the world can forget about Georgia’sthe Ukraine's territorial integrity.”

Fixed it....think this was what he was really trying to say.......

Nice of them to clarify that for us, we would have never guessed.

#30

Oh yes. Enrichment programs. Money-for-Oil-Food-For-No-One and blonde comfort women looking to pay off student loans.

I'm a bit torn on this one. Georgia itself broke away from Russia for a chance at self-determination. It seems the regions within Georgia want to do the same - breakaway from the governing state for a chance at self-determination. Of course we can't have every friggin' neighborhood in the world basically seceding from the governing state. But it is clear these two regions prefer Russia to Georgia. I don't know how we can simultaneously laud Georgia for breaking away from Russia while insisting South Osettia and Abkhazia may not from Georgia.

South Ossetia and the Arctic...the great Russian land grab.

re: #29 Peacekeeper
Hey PK - you forgot (I hope) the sarc tag there.

Wait till Russian Expert Condi here's about this. She's gonna be pissed.

I wouldn't want to be her black knee high boots when she starts stomping her feet.

I'm sure she'll take out the frustration on her piano as well.

That'll show Putin!

re: #33 eschew_obfuscation

I hate to display my ignorance, but what the heck....

How would missile defense have helped Georgia......or help the other balkan countries in similar circumstances?

I think the theory was that we could hit the Soviets with a nuclear strike without fear of reprisal and hence extend a "nuclear umbrella" to our allies in the region.

Georgia: Refugees flee after Russian military breaches ceasefire

At a checkpoint set up by the Russian Army on the approach to the city of Gori from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, an armoured personnel carrier blocked the road and riflemen had fanned out in the surrounding bushes, their weapons trained on anyone who approached.

All were ethnic Chechens, whose reputation for pitiless brutality in war made them feared throughout the Caucasus.

A stream of Georgians fled the area in cars, tractors and lorries, taking what belongings they could. A black Volga car crammed with passengers carried two more escapers on its roof.

One elderly couple were walking, the woman clearly in shock, her face swollen and one eye badly damaged. She pointed backwards and said: “They are killing people there, the Chechens and the Ossetians.”

The Bear's Bully-boys.

re: #33 eschew_obfuscation

Russian troops may have thought twice before over running over a U.S military installation with U.S troops on the ground.

Russia’s foreign minister said today, “the world can forget about Georgia’s territorial integrity.”

Gee, ya think!?!

Can you say Sudetenland?
/I knew you could.

re: #19 CIA Reject

Yup - looks like this guy was right all along!

Right about what? His autobiography sounds veeeddddy interesting. If e was originally from the KGB and fought against it, he might have a deeper understanding of Putin.

Fox reporter on the ground in Georgia just reported that additional Russian troops are entering the country.

re: #47 misfit138

Russia’s foreign minister said today, “the world can forget about Georgia’s territorial integrity.”

Gee, ya think!?!

Paraphrase:

'Get stuffed, 'President' Bush.'

re: #40 Eric Cartman's Conscience

I'm a bit torn on this one. Georgia itself broke away from Russia for a chance at self-determination. It seems the regions within Georgia want to do the same - breakaway from the governing state for a chance at self-determination. Of course we can't have every friggin' neighborhood in the world basically seceding from the governing state. But it is clear these two regions prefer Russia to Georgia. I don't know how we can simultaneously laud Georgia for breaking away from Russia while insisting South Osettia and Abkhazia may not from Georgia.

Does that mean we should now release the Southern States from the Union, because they did, after all, exercise the right of self determination and decide that they preferred to make their own compact with each other. You remember the Confederate States of America, right?

re: #35 redshirt

Wow! What next, China moves on Taiwan?

After the Olympics, grasshopper.

Pussy Europe
Pussy UN
Pussy us

Juan Cole went out of his way today to outline the "progressive" talking points on this whole affair.

1) It is George Bush's fault because we did the same unilateral think to Iraq.

2) No side is virtuous in this matter, so there isn't a good side to root for.

Odd, that logic. Let's assume the core assertions to be true-

1) If the left found the U.S. to be completely and totally wrong in Iraq and in need of a comeuppance, why aren't they applying the same standard to Russia if Russia has done the same thing?

2) Cole himself spoke of the "virtue" of "insurgents" rallying against the U.S. Shouldn't that same standard bestow virtue on the Georgians.

The left shows its knee jerk apologism and sentimentality for Stalinist Russian tactics.

re: #40 Eric Cartman's Conscience Respectfully, "But it is clear these two regions prefer Russia to Georgia." isn't all that clear, at all.
Georgia is an independent, democratic nation, recognized as such (for what little it's worth) by the UN.
Russia has had folks infiltrating South Ossetia for some time now; hence the "sudden and magical" appearance of all those Russian Tanks, Mechanized Infantry, Bombers and Naval Squadron.

Real question is what happens when the US Navy aid ships try to enter and unload in Poti.

re: #46 bulwrk

Russian troops may have thought twice before over running over a U.S military installation with U.S troops on the ground.

Good point....I've been hoping for something similar with our aid ships and planes.

#52 GG

Precisely why wars are fought.

Analysis from StratFor:

The war in Georgia, therefore, is Russia’s public return to great power status. This is not something that just happened — it has been unfolding ever since Putin took power, and with growing intensity in the past five years. Part of it has to do with the increase of Russian power, but a great deal of it has to do with the fact that the Middle Eastern wars have left the United States off-balance and short on resources. As we have written, this conflict created a window of opportunity. The Russian goal is to use that window to assert a new reality throughout the region while the Americans are tied down elsewhere and dependent on the Russians. The war was far from a surprise; it has been building for months. But the geopolitical foundations of the war have been building since 1992. Russia has been an empire for centuries. The last 15 years or so were not the new reality, but simply an aberration that would be rectified. And now it is being rectified.

Russia will now proceed with their bullying ways- fully aware that no one has the balls to stand up to them. They can act with impunity. Look out, Ukraine.

And don't think China isn't paying attention and eyeing Taiwan.

re: #36 galloping granny

In fairness, I suspect there are an awful lot of clean and innocent hands among the 4 million residents of Georgia, very few of whom signed up to be bombed, raped or looted.

Yes.

I was thinking of "irregulars" on both sides. Somehow, I distrust the lack of information coming out about what Georgians were doing prior to a week ago. Color me suspicious.

Don't get me wrong. South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Russia are in the wrong here, and the Georgian gov't has been generous in some of its actions re the breakaway provinces. I simply do NOT trust the media.

Boeing announced today the first ever test firing of a real-life ray gun that could become US special forces’ way to carry out covert strikes with “plausible deniability.”

Firing a frikkin laser in Georgia perhaps?

If we let this stand and do not stand up for our allies, what the hell good are we?

re: #33 eschew_obfuscation

All Russia has to threaten the United States with are land based ballistic missiles. That is a big enough threat that we are unwilling to fight for Georgia or, likely, the Balkans. Give us a credible missile defense, and the Russian nuclear threat goes away.

Without that, the calculus for the battlefield radically favors the US. The Russians aren't playing in the same league. Tanks, planes, down to the individual soldier on the battlefield, we are way above our enemies.

Then it is simply a matter of American will.

our world credibilty looks like crap now, we are no longer a "superpower". It's unfortunate that we allow our friends to suffer, and our enemies to gloat in this manner. They were so hip on democracy, they named streets after our president. We let them down, and they will never trust us again. This is Georgia were talking about, and like the russians they lived next to, they never forgive, they never forget.

re: #63 SusanL

If we let this stand and do not stand up for our allies, what the hell good are we?

Hasbeen.

re: #60 Sharmuta
I'd add a look out Israel to that list, as well as look out South Korea.

re: #49 BlueCanuck

Right about what? His autobiography sounds veeeddddy interesting. If e was originally from the KGB and fought against it, he might have a deeper understanding of Putin.

He understands Putin very well. In fact he was a "voice in the wilderness" warning that Russia under Putin would seek to re-establish the Soviet Union. Apparently the only people listening to him at the time was the Putin government who convicted him of treason in abstentia.

re: #65 lefty201

our world credibilty looks like crap now, we are no longer a "superpower". It's unfortunate that we allow our friends to suffer, and our enemies to gloat in this manner. They were so hip on democracy, they named streets after our president. We let them down, and they will never trust us again. This is Georgia were talking about, and like the russians they lived next to, they never forgive, they never forget.

Not only that, the President of Georgia is US educated and was an attorney in New York.

I absolutely loathe the way these Ossetians and Russians use the word 'genocide'.
It demeans the true victims, those of the Holocaust first and foremost, and the Tutsis in Rwanda and now the people in Darfur.
Get a grip - 'ethnic cleansing', bad as it is (and thats all that 'uprooting' means) is in no way genocide.

re: #56 realwest

Real question is what happens when the US Navy aid ships try to enter and unload in Poti.

President Bush has already told the Russkies we will have unfettered access. I don't think he was kidding around.

re: #56 realwest

An "International Incident" with much hand wringing and apologies around. I hate to say this, but I believe Bush dropped the ball on this. I just hope history will reveal the truths of what happened this past week, and show all the decisions made.

re: #67 realwest

I'd add a look out Israel to that list, as well as look out South Korea.

I'm not so sure about SK, but I hope Israel is gearing up in a very big way.

Forget about European integrity.

Looks like Russia is the one without integrity, though that is hardly news.

And with this blatant admission of Russia's true intentions, I must go to sleep and hope I can wake up with a straight face.

/good night, LGF...

re: #60 Sharmuta

Russia will now proceed with their bullying ways- fully aware that no one has the balls to stand up to them. They can act with impunity. Look out, Ukraine.

And don't think China isn't paying attention and eyeing Taiwan.

Excellent point...ding me up Scotti.

But, but Obama told them to stop!

what do you mean they didn't... (-:

And I find it amazing that the LLL would support Russia for no other reason than that it makes the US look bad.

The Soviet Union transplanted hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians to Georgia and these two provinces during and since Stalin's rule. It was the commies divide and conquer strategy, and if you want to see it in another venue just look at Tibet where the commies have used ethnic Chinese migrations to suppress and impoverish the native Tibetan community.
If Pres Bush doesn't go to Tblisi, then Obama should and must, since one word form the Obamessiah will end this war and lead the world to utopia.

re: #67 realwest

I'd add a look out Israel to that list, as well as look out South Korea.

Good point. I believe at times America is hated by people because we are the ones who should stand up for the little guys. Instead- we're viewed by these people as supporting thugs. If this is true, then we can expect more people to hate us in the near future.

If you can't defend what you have, the chances are great that you will lose it.
History is replete with that one lesson, over and over.

#40 Eric Cartman's Conscience

The Russians did not act to protect the right to self-determination of the Ossetians. They have oppressed the various ethnic groups on their side of the border (Chechens) while providing money, guns & support to the separatists in their neighboring countries. Most of the "gov't officials" in Ossetia were also employees of the Russian security services. This was not about protecting ethnic independence, it's about the enforcing the dominance of the Russian Empire.

Russia should be stripped of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

A 15 minute drive from Georgia.

re: #65 lefty201

No we still are, but it just proves that the rest of the world.. can you say UN & EU will do nothing with out us first.

damn shame.

re: #78 Dustoff-507

But, but Obama told them to stop!

what do you mean they didn't... (-:

Not only did he tell them to stop, did you hear the guy from Virginia publicly crowing that Russia had listened to HRH Obama and done just what The One asked?

And this is why Mcain will win, who should lead, a War hero, or a guy who organized picnics ummm,

re: #70 yma o hyd

I absolutely loathe the way these Ossetians and Russians use the word 'genocide'.
It demeans the true victims, those of the Holocaust first and foremost, and the Tutsis in Rwanda and now the people in Darfur.
Get a grip - 'ethnic cleansing', bad as it is (and thats all that 'uprooting' means) is in no way genocide.

Slightly OT

This a.m. I heard an NPR person use the word "crisis" to describe a reporter's inability to get a hotdog at the Olympics basketball venue. I sh*t you not!

re: #79 Ben Hur

Why? They are just the L³eft doing what the L³eft does. I would find it amazing if they did anything else.

re: #59 Kenneth

Good point. The term "Potemkin Village" was from the Russian Empire era(can't remember the Empress's name) but applied equally well to the Soviet.

#71 faraway

I don't think Bush is in any position to insist upon it. Putin is a viscious little bastard. The lil' Judo blackbelt welcomes Bush's big talk. I think, like that Mexican asshole-president who basically called Bush a fraud as a "cowboy", Putin thinks Bush is all hat no cattle.

re: #84 karmic_inquisitor

Russia should be stripped of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

A 15 minute drive from Georgia.

Riiiiight. Come on- the IOC gave the summer games to China- you really think they care if the games are given to thugs?

re: #78 Dustoff-507

But, but Obama told them to stop!

what do you mean they didn't... (-:

Has anyone even heard from Beach Boy Barry lately?

re: #80 eaglewingz08

The Soviet Union transplanted hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians to Georgia and these two provinces during and since Stalin's rule. It was the commies divide and conquer strategy, and if you want to see it in another venue just look at Tibet where the commies have used ethnic Chinese migrations to suppress and impoverish the native Tibetan community.
If Pres Bush doesn't go to Tblisi, then Obama should and must, since one word form the Obamessiah will end this war and lead the world to utopia.

That is about the worst suggestion I have ever heard! The Secret Service has already had to request $9.5 MILLION extra to cover the extra security for the World Tour and the Stadium Coronation.

re: #86 galloping granny

Ya wonder what he has to say now... LOL

did you hear that cricket.

re: #65 lefty201

our world credibilty looks like crap now, we are no longer a "superpower".

Oh, please.

You're declaring utter defeat after a week?

re: #93 jorline

Has anyone even heard from Beach Boy Barry lately?

No, and it is a welcome respite, actually.

re: #72 BlueCanuck

An "International Incident" with much hand wringing and apologies around. I hate to say this, but I believe Bush dropped the ball on this. I just hope history will reveal the truths of what happened this past week, and show all the decisions made.

He statement yesterday was 5 days to late, that may have been due to get the assets in place for the move, but I believe a good move. It put the ball back in Putin's court. The key is we must follow up to line drawn, no interference with US movements and status quo ante Aug. 6.

We have to follow up, If Russia does anything to hinder our operations, or refuses to move. It must be responded to forcefully.

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

Are we going to "defend" our allies in Ukraine, too?

Now that everything is on the table for negotiation:
1. India replaces Russia in the UN Security Council.
2. Future of Konigsberg is to be determined by Germany, Poland and Lithuania.
3. Sevastapol is closed to the Russians, The Black Sea Fleet no longer exists.
4. Every person who takes a foreign passport can lose their original citizenship.
5. Georgia, like the US, has the right to expel all non citizens.
6. No Russian troops except embassy guards south of 44º N anywhere on earth.

Then smile sweetly and say, "Next?"

re: #89 Iron Fist

Why? They are just the L³eft doing what the L³eft does. I would find it amazing if they did anything else.

True.

re: #78 Dustoff-507

But, but Obama told them to stop!

what do you mean they didn't... (-:

And Gov. Kaine confirm as soon as Obamessiah spoke, Russia obeyed.

re: #93 jorline

You haven't hear.... He's golfing..
Very imporant you know. 0-:

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

Operation Chaos Lives!

re: #73 galloping granny

I think the South Korean populous has been so propagandized about the EVIL US that they would welcome the Chinese. That is until they have been there a while.

I am becoming a real advocate of pulling our military from everywhere, stacking them on the borders and saying f-u to the rest of the fricking world. If we are so damn bad, then you sob's are on your own.

No matter what we do, we are the bad guy. I'm really getting tired of it.

re: #69 galloping granny

Not only that, the President of Georgia is US educated and was an attorney in New York.

He must not of been much of a lawyer if he can allow himself to be placed into a situation such as the one he currently occupies.

re: #80 eaglewingz08

The Soviet Union transplanted hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians to Georgia and these two provinces during and since Stalin's rule. It was the commies divide and conquer strategy, and if you want to see it in another venue just look at Tibet where the commies have used ethnic Chinese migrations to suppress and impoverish the native Tibetan community.
If Pres Bush doesn't go to Tblisi, then Obama should and must, since one word form the Obamessiah will end this war and lead the world to utopia.

They did do that in the outer regions of the USSR, however, I've read that Alani-descended Ossetians have lived in this "South Ossetia" region for centuries. If so, it's not so clearcut in this particular case.

re: #68 CIA Reject

Thank you for the further clarification.

/Book is on the ever expanding list. :(

When Bush was looking into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul, Putin was looking into Bush's eyes and saw a modified Jimmy Carter.

re: #93 jorline

You get an up-ding for "Beach Boy Barry". I think that is a precise trivilization of the man who would be the One, the Obamessiah, as he confronts this challenge.

re: #71 faraway
and
re: #72 BlueCanuck

I wish I had the wisdom to know what will happen.
I know that IF the US Navy responds with force (including the use of Superhornets from Carrier(s))
that the entire situation in Georgia will change almost instanteously. Russia is still not a top-notch conventional power, even in it's own backyard - their supply lines are stretched to the Max and we could cut them very easily (and keep them cut); moreover we have Amphibious Assault Ships that carry a fully equipped Brigade (roughly 1,500) of combat tested US Marines - who, together with the msyteriously missing 2,000 battle tested Georgians we airlifted in two days ago, could make things VERY DIFFICULT to say the least, on the Russians.
And I know I'm swimming upstream out here, but Georgia IS our ALLY and is a real democracy - if we don't stand by them, shame on us. Period.

re: #101 godfrey

I have a bad feeling about that too. Most of all if Obama get's in

re: #41 jorline

South Ossetia and the Arctic...the great Russian land grab.

Next up - Turkey and the Middle East.

re: #111 opinionated

When Bush was looking into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul, Putin was looking into Bush's eyes and saw a modified Jimmy Carter.weak Saudi shill.

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

Catherine the Great.

Now there was an empress who didn't horse around. Well, she did, but only in the privacy of her own home.

re: #115 cygnus

Next up - Turkey and the Middle East.

I think not. Russia would lose teeth in Turkey, and the Russians know it.

re: #54 FrogMarch

Pussy Europe
Pussy UN
Pussy us

Don't insult my cat!

re: #40 Eric Cartman's Conscience

It didn't 'break away' - it was a republik within the system of the Soviet Union - same as Kzakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbeijan, Ukraine, the Baltic States. They re-claimed their former statehood which was forcibly subsumed under Stalin into Russia.
Thanks to Stalins way of ordering things, South Ossetia was part of the former Georgian Soviet republic, as was Abchasia.
If we think its fine for the South Ossetians to have their own republic, with Russias help, then why are the Chechens denied their own republic, why can Russia bomb the Chechens into the stone age and we nod and say, yeah, fine?

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

I still think she's going to win it. It's just a feeling I have.

re: #84 karmic_inquisitor

Russia should be stripped of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

A 15 minute drive from Georgia.

Nah, then the IOC would just move them to Iran.

re: #69 galloping granny

Not only that, the President of Georgia is US educated and was an attorney in New York.

Despite that he likes us and we like him. I do worry about the Soros connection.

re: #107 SusanL

YUP!

I think the South Korean populous has been so propagandized about the EVIL US that they would welcome the Chinese. That is until they have been there a while.

I am becoming a real advocate of pulling our military from everywhere, stacking them on the borders and saying f-u to the rest of the fricking world. If we are so damn bad, then you sob's are on your own.

No matter what we do, we are the bad guy. I'm really getting tired of it.

re: #121 Catttt

I still think she's going to win it. It's just a feeling I have.

I think so too.

re: #26 marge45b

Mother Russia will bilk NASA on trips to the ISS when the Shuttle retires.

We need to see how much Burt Rutan would need to have a spacecraft in time.

re: #109 pre-Boomer Marine brat

classic balkans,folks living in one general area of different religions,and different"nationalities"they all want control,and suspect anyone not of their group.

re: #54 FrogMarch

Pussy Europe
Pussy UN
Pussy us

Hey! Stop dissing pussycats.

re: #92 Sharmuta

Riiiiight. Come on- the IOC gave the summer games to China- you really think they care if the games are given to thugs?

The Chinese made all sorts of promises about how they'd reform and improve conditions if they got the games and the IOC was flattered by it.

I am not thinking that the IOC will do the right thing, BTW. I am simply assuming that the whole idea of them losing the games ought to be in public discussion. Put a spotlight on Russia and on the IOC. The Olympics is a pet project of Putin - it should be threatened.

Also, the Winter Games are dominated by European teams - lets see if they have the spine to threaten boycott. If Europe boycotted, it would be the end of the games in 2014.

Again, the issue should be pushed not in expectation of getting the result but as a way to humiliate Putin, the IOC and Europe at the same time.

re: #113 realwest
roughly 1,500) of combat tested US Marines -

Buddy I think they are all combat tested now. LOL

Morning sir.

re: #61 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Here's a timeline of events in Georgia/Ossetia going back several years. Clearly the Russians have been working on this for a while. The last stray for them was the West granting independence to Kosovo and placing Ukraine & Georgia on the NATO membership plan. The Russians figured now is the time to act, while the US is in an election, tied up in Iraq & Afghanistan & wary of Iran. Putin calculated correctly that the Americans will issue angry statements but in the end, can't do much about it.

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

YEEEEHAAAAW! DENVER, ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?!?!?

/puttin' the popcorn in the popper.

Russia grows bolder as the US betrays its ally and Western Europe yawns or engages in meaningless diplomacy. It's just a statement of fact, it's already taken place.

Never forget this little gem from yesterday morning

Kaine Says Russians "Complied With" Obama's Request for a Ceasefire

re: #121 Catttt

I still think she's going to win it. It's just a feeling I have.

I think you might be right. Because I think the powers that be in the Dems have come to realize that Obama cannot win this. But then I also think that the Democrats are going to schism over this.

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks, I new it was a she. At least I got the terminology correct. 18^th century?

re: #99 jcm

Let us just hope it wasn't too late, and we stand by the line drawn in the sand.

re: #93 jorline

I believe BO is still in the islands, no doubt negotiating to give Hawaii back to its aspirant peoples. That would reduce the US to 66 states? 67? I forget. Seriously though, we cannot allow the relativists and apologists of the Obama left wing to divert the blame for this tragedy from anywhere except where it belongs: squarely on Russia.

re: #110 BlueCanuck

Thank you for the further clarification.

/Book is on the ever expanding list. :(

You're very welcome! If you ever get to hear one of his lectures don't pass up the opportunity- he has a fascinating story to tell.

re: #125 Ward Cleaver

I think so too.

I hope not. The riots throughout the country would be very bad.

re: #133 taxfreekiller

Wait,,,,

NEWS FLASH!

Congress is being called back into session, Georgia will be named an "earmark", no vote required.

Nancy Out.

BHO will vote 'present'.

re: #93 jorline

Has anyone even heard from Beach Boy Barry lately?

I think that he was scheduled to take a tour of Hilo Hattie's today.

Doh!

Russia’s foreign minister said today, “the world can forget about Georgia’s territorial integrity FOAD.”

Fixed that for him

re: #97 Occasional Reader

No. But it does seem like we're all talk and no action anymore. Nations that should pay attention to us, blow us off now and try to disregard us. (Try Hugo Chavez, Iran, Russia, Syria, Pakistan (and we should be going in there after Bin Laden but can't)). How are we supposed to look at nations around the world and say "hey, we're you buddies and were going to help you build a democracy because it works!" when we turn tail and run from our friends at the first sign of trouble.

OT: New Saudi Bike Invention.

re: #132 Colonel Panik

YEEEEHAAAAW! DENVER, ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?!?!?

/puttin' the popcorn in the popper.

Yup. The Denver Police even have a special holding tank set up for demonstrators that the activists are calling Gitmo II.

re: #63 SusanL

If we let this stand and do not stand up for our allies, what the hell good are we?

And what will the Ukraine, Poland, etc. think?
And any Iranians who want to overthrow the theocracy?

As bad as it could be, if we don't stand up for Georgia now, the US won't be a major power any more. No one will take us seriously.

re: #143 cygnus

No, no, no. His wife has a headace. will call back later.

re: #136 galloping granny

I think you might be right. Because I think the powers that be in the Dems have come to realize that Obama cannot win this. But then I also think that the Democrats are going to schism over this.

If it's a draw, they might turn to Al Gore. Which would be smart because he would win convincingly.

Anyone here play the first Tom Clancy's Splinter cell on XBOX?

The games plot is very similar to what's happening right now, the whole thing involved the russians Invading Georgia to stop an oil pipeline being built in Azerbijan.

re: #127 Boondock St. Bender

classic balkans,folks living in one general area of different religions,and different"nationalities"they all want control,and suspect anyone not of their group.

That's precisely my read on it too.

Spitting on Russia in this matter doesn't mean I give ANYONE else a pass.

re: #84 karmic_inquisitor

Russia should be stripped of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

A 15 minute drive from Georgia.

So it should - would hurt Putin quite a bit, apparently its his pet project ...

The world's democracies need to reject the U.N. The U.S. should ask the U.N., as an active enemy organization, to immediately leave its territory. These democracies should then start a new world body that would demand something, other than a flag, from those who would wish to join.

I'm getting a little irritated about all the defeatist talk about this great Russian "victory" and our corresponding "impotence". This game is just getting started, folks.

re: #136 galloping granny

I think you might be right. Because I think the powers that be in the Dems have come to realize that Obama cannot win this. But then I also think that the Democrats are going to schism over this.

Buyer's remorse.

re: #5 galloping granny

Glad someone is pointing this out. Even the Lightworker himself failed to take this into account when he made the suggestion.

re: #140 Ford_Prefect

So? Spoiled children throw a trantrum when you take away their toys. The dems have turned half of this country into spoiled brats.

Anyone with a brain will get out of high risk areas. If the cops are smart, the will encircle and let it burn its self out.

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

Barry actually agreed to that? What a dumb bastard.

re: #156 Occasional Reader

Yup the new cold war is offically on.

re: #117 Occasional Reader

I read some where that was just vicious rumours to sully a great empress.

/but nothing would surprise me these days.

re: #98 rawmuse

No, and it is a welcome respite, actually.

Sadly I agree, but what's he going to due if elected Potus...put on his speedo and hide under the Oval Office desk during the next international incident.

re: #138 Pullus Iulius

I believe BO is still in the islands, no doubt negotiating to give Hawaii back to its aspirant peoples. That would reduce the US to 66 states? 67? I forget. Seriously though, we cannot allow the relativists and apologists of the Obama left wing to divert the blame for this tragedy from anywhere except where it belongs: squarely on Russia.

Speaking of HRH Obama, I happened into Borders yesterday. Right inside the front door they had a big display of political books. Every single one of the Obama Unmasked books had a huge stack. There was not a single copy of Dreams and just two of Audacity - near the back of the store on a next to the bottom shelf. HEH.

re: #147 Killgore Trout

OT: New Saudi Bike Invention.

Add to the long list of Saudi gifts to humanity.

re: #147 Killgore Trout

OT: New Saudi Bike Invention.

When all your women are hiding beneath sacks, you do stupid things to occupy your mind.

re: #130 Dustoff-507

I think he's talking about the total number, not the amount of combat tested in THAT number.

re: #152 pegcity

Didn't they also have a James Bond movie on this too?

Domino theory anyone?

re: #79 Ben Hur

And I find it amazing that the LLL would support Russia for no other reason than that it makes the US look bad.

I don't. They've always loved genuine fascists and mass murderers.

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

This is gonna be fun.
/Going to Costco for industrial-sized popcorn bags

re: #122 Ward Cleaver

Nah, then the IOC would just move them to Iran.

Kidding aside, the second best vote getter for host in 2014 is South Korea, so they'd get the games.

we seem a little pessimistic this morning.This thing is far from over.I like the fact that bush did not react with a kaiser wilhelm type of statmentor action.his message was terse,and he was plainly pissed.We are sending in relief,with our military.bush is daring putin to do something about it.the ball is still in play.lets not act like the msm and declare defeat till this whole thing is over.

re: #156 Occasional Reader

I'm getting a little irritated about all the defeatist talk about this great Russian "victory" and our corresponding "impotence". This game is just getting started, folks.

Well- one thing that might scare the crap out of the Russians is a President McCain. It's rumored he has a temper......

re: #131 Kenneth

Here's a timeline of events in Georgia/Ossetia going back several years. Clearly the Russians have been working on this for a while. The last stray for them was the West granting independence to Kosovo and placing Ukraine & Georgia on the NATO membership plan. The Russians figured now is the time to act, while the US is in an election, tied up in Iraq & Afghanistan & wary of Iran. Putin calculated correctly that the Americans will issue angry statements but in the end, can't do much about it.

THANKS for the link! I'll make time (sometime soon) to crawl through it, line by line.

re: #147 Killgore Trout
This guys Obama avatar is funny. here

re: #146 lefty201

No. But it does seem like we're all talk and no action anymore.

I'm pretty sure we took down two hostile regimes since 9/11.

And it looks to me like it was the appearance of US military assets on the scene yesterday that stopped the Russians from rolling on Tbilisi.

re: #163 jorline

BHO as POTUS will be busy domestically, installing Federal judges that will find ways to negate the Constitution in ways that we can only imagine.

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

Another 4th of July? Calling all Dems...everyone in the gutter, this is going to get nasty.

re: #168 Dustoff-507

life is now offically stranger than a video game.

It's too bad America dosen't really have a third Echelon and a Sam Fischer to go in a mop up.

re: #167 BlueCanuck

I was making a joke buddy.. Realwest and I go WAY back. LOL

re: #130 Dustoff-507
Hey my friend - yeah but a Marine Amphibious Brigade is made up of about 1,500 marines, plus helicopters (I know you remember them!) to transport and attack ground forces. One of those ships is an extremely lethal force to cope with; aided by airpower from a Carrier battle group (or preferably TWO Carrier Battle Groups) and those 2,000 Georgians and I think Russia is the one who would be in trouble.
Now if 16 or so F-22's - with in air refueling set up, were to land in Iraq, get pilots rested, planes fully armed, then I think the US will rule the skies over Georgia. And that is end game for Russia, cause even Putin isn't stupid enough to think Russia could beat us - or for that matter that anyone would be a winner - in a nuke exchange.

re: #143 cygnus

I think that he was scheduled to take a tour of Hilo Hattie's today.

Been there...nothing but crap...lol

I heard an interesting stat that Russia has only 145 million people due to the break-up of the USSR in 1991. That's less than half of the US and a 10th of China. Russia is certainly no longer a world leader and there is little chance of a return to the old Cold War. Russia is, more than anything, a regional threat and is probably looking to re-establish its regional dominance.

Its not the Cold War that has returned--it's the "Great Game", except this time, the players have nukes.

Don't be too down on Bush about US inaction. There isn't much the US can do except to try to limit the damage. Putin is sending a message to his neighbors (Poland, the Balts & especially Ukraine):

"Don't expect too much help from far away America or lazy fat Europe We are your neighbors & you have to learn to live with us."

The message has been heard.

And by the way, folks, this is all happening in the Caucasus, not in the Balkans. Different mountains, different side of the Black Sea. Different history, but no less tragic.

re: #176 faraway

Heh.

re: #185 calcajun

They are a dying people Putin knows this, he and his cronies just want to grab up what they can.

re: #182 realwest

I think your right buddy. Putin is power hungery, but not stupid.
His forces are small and not even up to speed if he wants to go head to head.

even he knows the nukes would be a loser.

re: #147 Killgore Trout

So, they have finally gotten to the penny farthing stage.

re: #187 Pullus Iulius

And by the way, folks, this is all happening in the Caucasus, not in the Balkans. Different mountains, different side of the Black Sea. Different history, but no less tragic.

"Typical Caucasian people."

-BHO

re: #153 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thats why the only ones able to control the balkans have been brutal and replessive regimes.if you try to weld the region into nations actually capable of supporting a decent military/domestic production you get rebelion/breakaway movements.if you allow all these little feifdoms to have their independce,you'll get a shitload of little wars of conquest as the slightly larger try to swallow the slightly smaller.(oh,and throw in lots of ethnic cleansing)

re: #51 Maine's Michael

Paraphrase:

'Get stuffed, 'President' Bush.'

You mean that Putin is not shaking in his boots considering that Rice is on the way?

We have been at war from day one of this Bush term and as Michael Corleone made very clear- when at war you must have a wartime consiliary.

Only Bush considers Rice a wartime consiliary.

re: #156 Occasional Reader From your lips to Bush's ears my friend.
And I apologize for thinking you didn't think the Georgian situation was worth fight Russia over.

re: #164 galloping granny

Speaking of HRH Obama, I happened into Borders yesterday. Right inside the front door they had a big display of political books. Every single one of the Obama Unmasked books had a huge stack. There was not a single copy of Dreams and just two of Audacity - near the back of the store on a next to the bottom shelf. HEH.

That could mean that Obama's book is way outselling Unmasked?

re: #191 BlueCanuck

So, they have finally gotten to the penny farthing stage.

Who is farting pennies on stage? That's just gross.

The former enslaved nations of eastern Europe would be wise to immediately seek nuclear capabilities as I don't believe they can rely on the commitment of NATO to assure their sovereignty. The annexation of eastern Poland will be short in coming.

re: #156 Occasional Reader

I'm getting a little irritated about all the defeatist talk about this great Russian "victory" and our corresponding "impotence". This game is just getting started, folks.

Correct it's not done, not by a long shot.

GWB yesterday put the ball into Putin's court.
No interference with US assets.
Status quo ante Aug. 6.

I believe it may be a mistake in strategy, but it seems there will be the dipolmatic push first. Rice, shuttling between Tiblisi and Moscow, a UN resolution (Russia has to sit out as they are an involved party), and an EU consensus.

Any overt action against Russian forces is a couple weeks out. BTW that's not all bad, it give US, NATO, and EU 2 weeks to get spun up.

I would prefer an immediate no fly zone, and any Russian unit involved in anything but withdrawal gets a visit, but that's me.

re: #100 reine.de.tout

OT:

Hillary's name will be put into nomination at Dem convention

Get the popcorn out..this is going to be fun!

re: #174 Sharmuta

Well- one thing that might scare the crap out of the Russians is a President McCain. It's rumored he has a temper......

And this might just push more people to vote for McCain

re: #189 pegcity

I know. Demographics are killing them as they are not replacing themselves. They could use the tremendous oil and gas revenues to improve the GDP and they way of life so that more kids might have kids. But, that kind of correction will take a few generations. Russia might be finished in 50 years.

re: #185 calcajun

They continue to shed population. One estimate I saw had them dwon to 100M in 30 years. They are only "thriving" on oil and gas.

One more STRATEGIC reason to drill our own. Force down prices and screw Putin at the same time.

Win Win.

re: #181 Dustoff-507

I was making a joke buddy.. Realwest and I go WAY back. LOL

Ah, I see. Sorry, wasn't meant as a jump on you. besides I am usually on the night shift so I will no go update my score card.

/damn it, where did I put that farley file.

re: #185 calcajun

Want to hear something even stranger? Long the dominant ethnic group in the Russian Empire, the ethnic Russian population is collapsing, while the Muslim population is growing. By 2030, most military age males will be Muslim. By 2050, Russia will be majority Muslim.

Think we have problems now? Just wait.

re: #187 Pullus Iulius

yes,but the same problems,(usually refered to as balkanisation.a catch-all term for various areas of the world with this problem.)

re: #203 karmic_inquisitor

The question, though, is who is going to fill that vacuum in what used to be Russia. I hear the Chinese could use some living space.

re: #190 Dustoff-507

re: #202 calcajun

Keep in mind the avg life expectency is only 56 years for a Russian male mostly due to the massive consumption of Vodka, not to mention Aids which kills 750,000 russians every year.

re: #195 realwest

And I apologize for thinking you didn't think the Georgian situation was worth fight Russia over.

Well, let me be clear. We had posters over the last several days who were advocating immediately putting US ordnance on Russian troops in Georgia. I was, and continue to be, against that. You just don't start blasting the troops of a country with six thousand nukes. But there are other ways of fighting this, and I think after some initial trouble out of the gate, Bush is playing wisely.

re: #177 Occasional Reader

I'm pretty sure we took down two hostile regimes since 9/11.

And it looks to me like it was the appearance of US military assets on the scene yesterday that stopped the Russians from rolling on Tbilisi.

And don't forget that as a result of doing that our troops have had seven years of, not just combat experience, but (despite what the MSM would have you believe) successful combat experience.

The last full-scale combat experience the Red Army had was retreating from Afghanistan. A place that our forces have since pacified.

re: #205 Kenneth

The Islamofascists don't have to buy nukes on the black market. They're going to inherit them.

re: #205 Kenneth

Muslims, Nukes, Muslim, Nukes

Nah what problem

re: #201 Kosh's Shadow

And this might just push more people to vote for McCain

If we keep the focus on who is the victimizer, who is the victim, and what the stakes are, I do not see how it could not. It's 3 AM, the phone is ringing, and Barry's on vacation, out in left field and playing football.

re: #186 Kenneth Kenneth I respectfully disagree - there is still a HELLUVA LOT the US could do - see my prior posts about Russia's over-extended supply line, the US Navy, the US Marine Attack Ships - with their attack helicopters and some Harrier Jump Jets for tank busting and close in ground support, AND those F-22 Raptors. WE could control the skies over Georgia, cut Russia's supply line, seriously beat on their antiquidated armor and mechanized infantry - IF BUSH WANTS TO.

re: #210 CIA Reject

you need to keep in mind that if this gets ugly what is going to stop Putin from Arming Americas enemies openly, I don't want to see the Taliban with Strella's.

re: #184 jorline

Been there...nothing but crap...lol

Me too - a complete tourist trap - yuck.

re: #208 pegcity

I often thought that a good stategy against the russian army was to keep many stockpiles of vodka around what would be typical invasion routes.aloww these areas to be taken,then let nature take its course.
(counter-attack the besotted)

Here's my take. Whatever is left of Georgia, we should wholeheartedly support with infrastructure rebuilding, cheap loans, enhanced trade, etc. Enable Georgia to be a good place to live in that part of the world. Then take out ads crowing about how great Georgia is and how much life in the USSR sucks. Basically, throw it back in Russia's face. Let's see how much Abzakrap and South Ohsaycanyousee like living in the Bear's anus.

re: #205 Kenneth

By 2050, Russia will be majority Muslim.

Think we have problems now? Just wait.

OTOH, I wonder what that will do to the still-signficant Russian scientific prowess. Majority-Muslim countries don't exactly have a sterling track record at coming up with cutting-edge weapons systems.

re: #193 Boondock St. Bender

Thats why the only ones able to control the balkans have been brutal and replessive regimes.if you try to weld the region into nations actually capable of supporting a decent military/domestic production you get rebelion/breakaway movements.if you allow all these little feifdoms to have their independce,you'll get a shitload of little wars of conquest as the slightly larger try to swallow the slightly smaller.(oh,and throw in lots of ethnic cleansing)

Yes, but I'd add a personal suspicion that the Balkans are over-supplied with demagogues. There are, indeed, centuries-old animosities, but those require agitation to keep them alive.

Color me cynically optimistic.

One more nail, one more drink and I am done. I am way up past my bedtime.

re: #217 Boondock St. Bender

best strategy is to take out there commander and watch the troops run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

re: #199 jcm

The US will not put significant military assets in a position where they will come into direct confrontation with Russian military. The conflict will be run through US proxies, the Georgians. Some help may be quietly provided by the Turks. The US humanitarian deliveries will provide some air & sea cover for the Georgians, but it won't mean the US is attempting to enforce US air or sea supremacy. That's just not going to happen.

re: #219 Occasional Reader

um Flying Boats, stealth missles, invisible submarines, Rocks.

Well, the mask is off. Russia tells us in so many words their true motives for the escalation of the war. The Russian Bear is back. Time for the world to adjust it's attitude towards the New Russian Empire.

Funny how the Left remains silent over Russia's war for oil. "No blood for oil!" What a bunch of phonies. With Russia now in control or soon to be of the Georgian oil pipeline, they can dictate to Europe and West.

DRILL! DRILL! DRILL!

re: #214 realwest

And provoke on hell of an incident, to boot. As much as I'd like to see that (BTW, we are hanging our Georgian allies out to dry right now) that's only going to make matters worse.

None of the parties can afford to look weak; none of them can withstand the loss of face. They have to find a way to tip-toe out of the minefield.

re: #214 realwest

Kenneth I respectfully disagree - there is still a HELLUVA LOT the US could do - see my prior posts about Russia's over-extended supply line, the US Navy, the US Marine Attack Ships - with their attack helicopters and some Harrier Jump Jets for tank busting and close in ground support, AND those F-22 Raptors. WE could control the skies over Georgia, cut Russia's supply line, seriously beat on their antiquidated armor and mechanized infantry - IF BUSH WANTS TO.

I think he wants to. I think he is just being very careful about rushing in where even angels fear to tread. Also remember the amount of time that he has to operate a war without Congressional oversight.

re: #205 Kenneth

Want to hear something even stranger? Long the dominant ethnic group in the Russian Empire, the ethnic Russian population is collapsing, while the Muslim population is growing. By 2030, most military age males will be Muslim. By 2050, Russia will be majority Muslim.

Think we have problems now? Just wait.

IIRC, the majority of the lower ranks in old Soviet Army was Muslim. It wasn't a comfortable situation for the Soviets back then.

re: #204 BlueCanuck

Not a problem. (-:

re: #225 Land Shark

Well, the mask is off. Russia tells us in so many words their true motives for the escalation of the war. The Russian Bear is back. Time for the world to adjust it's attitude towards the New Russian Empire.

Funny how the Left remains silent over Russia's war for oil. "No blood for oil!" What a bunch of phonies. With Russia now in control or soon to be of the Georgian oil pipeline, they can dictate to Europe and West.

DRILL! DRILL! DRILL!

where's Shamesty international, wheres' (jews aren't) Humans right watch?

re: #215 pegcity

What makes you think he isn't already

re: #198 Kilroy "The annexation of eastern Poland will be short in coming."
Uh, no it won't be coming at all. Poland HAS a military - a damn good one that a part of has been battle tested alongside our Forces in Iraq (and iirc,
Afghanistan) and they won't go quietly into that good night. Same with Ukraine - population of 50 million or so, balls enough to deny Russia's Naval Squadron back into it's home ports, etc.
This "game" (which it most assuredly is not) is not only not over, I think it's just beginning.

re: #215 pegcity

you need to keep in mind that if this gets ugly what is going to stop Putin from Arming Americas enemies openly, I don't want to see the Taliban with Strella's.

The same thing could happen later. If we don't stop Putin now, then we lose the rest of the Eastern bloc; they cannot stand against Russia on their own, and as much as they love freedom, they know what will happen to them if the Russians invade.

Did Gates just have a press conference? I heard a comment on Belmont but no facts. What did he say?

re: #231 Dustoff-507

What makes you think he isn't already

well maybe Ak's but i haven't seen too many coalition aircraft being downed.

So i doubt they have heat seekers.

Kinda OT, but not altogether...My daughter went to her Aunt's house to start the cooking necessary to uphold the family honor at last weekends cemetery meeting. She (daughter) accidentally sent off the burglar alarm in the house. About an hour later, a carload of Stuttgart's finest showed up to investigate.

Daughter said it only took two heaping bowls of banana pudding and a homemade brownie apiece to convince the coppers that there was nothing nefarious going on, since actual burglars seldom, if ever, stayed around long enough to do any serious baking.

So the Russkies are missing a bet if they're not cooking up homemade goodies for the actual 'peacekeepers' when they arrive.

re: #173 Boondock St. Bender

I agree; we are currently in a staring contest, or a gigantic game of chicken.

Is Georgia the new West Berlin?

re: #217 Boondock St. Bender

I often thought that a good stategy against the russian army was to keep many stockpiles of vodka around what would be typical invasion routes.aloww these areas to be taken,then let nature take its course.
(counter-attack the besotted)

That's why I had suggested yesterday we include some vodka for the "poor Russian soldiers" in our humanitarian supplies.

re: #233 Kosh's Shadow

The same thing could happen later. If we don't stop Putin now, then we lose the rest of the Eastern bloc; they cannot stand against Russia on their own, and as much as they love freedom, they know what will happen to them if the Russians invade.

I would prefer that Putin openly arm our enemies as opposed to arming them secretly. At least that way we know what the SOB is doing.

re: #220 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Of course,the easiest way to get the populous behind you is to crow about old grudges and racial distrusts.(worked for hitler)The sounds of strengh and power (don't fuck with us!)are seductive to a populus.much more fun to listen to then a balanced plan for the future.(based on economic well being and reponsinble gonvernance)War (and the sound of war)is easier than peace/prosperity.look at the pali's.

re: #214 realwest

Yes, yes, but the US is not going to choose to do that. In 40 years of the Cold War the US & USSR avoided direct confrontation. Bush isn't going to violate that rule today over Georgia. Just ain't gonna happen. The most we can expect is some key weapons supplied to the Georgians, a few military advisers, sharing satellite intel & some limited air & sea security coverage provided during the limited humanitarian deliveries. If the Georgians are going to keep their independence, they're going to have to do the heavy lifting themselves.

Sorry, but that's the cold hard facts.

re: #225 Land Shark

Well, the mask is off. Russia tells us in so many words their true motives for the escalation of the war. The Russian Bear is back. Time for the world to adjust it's attitude towards the New Russian Empire.

Funny how the Left remains silent over Russia's war for oil. "No blood for oil!" What a bunch of phonies. With Russia now in control or soon to be of the Georgian oil pipeline, they can dictate to Europe and West.

DRILL! DRILL! DRILL!

Drilling is good......

And we may be 'growing' our own oil in a couple of years

(link might be a little troublesome.....I think the server is getting pounded)

re: #233 Kosh's Shadow

what happens if Russia and China both decide that there gonna take all of eastern Asia for themselves.

This is going to get very bad, i can see China seeing this as there chance to strike while the irons hot and take over a bunch of stans under the pretense of routing out terrorism.

Were offically living in a Tom Clancy novel.

re: #29 Peacekeeper

No wisdom in fighting over Georgia, probably not Ukraine either or those three little dots up there on the Baltic coast. Poland? Maybe Poland.

We did the Poland thing before (1939). When we fought over it, it was almost too damn late. Better to stop this shit early before it gets past this point.

re: #226 calcajun

And provoke on hell of an incident, to boot. As much as I'd like to see that (BTW, we are hanging our Georgian allies out to dry right now) that's only going to make matters worse.

None of the parties can afford to look weak; none of them can withstand the loss of face. They have to find a way to tip-toe out of the minefield.

And that's why Bush started with humanitarian aid. We weren't directly threatening the Russians, but they don't want to shoot at us, either. So it gave us a non-threatening way to get in a protective position. If the Russians keep going, then they're escalating, and we need to take that into account.

OR,

Well, let me be clear. We had posters over the last several days who were advocating immediately putting US ordnance on Russian troops in Georgia. I was, and continue to be, against that. You just don't start blasting the troops of a country with six thousand nukes. But there are other ways of fighting this, and I think after some initial trouble out of the gate, Bush is playing wisely.

You coward! Nothing less than the use of tactical nuclear weapons on Russian troops is an effective response!

//////

re: #240 Boondock St. Bender

Of course,the easiest way to get the populous behind you is to ...

How true, how true.

re: #235 pegcity

True, but remember we have been preparing our birds for surface to air missiles for years know. One reason Saddam had such a hard time hitting our birds.
Plus once you turn on your radar to track our birds we have a system that will put a Mach 3 missile in you front door right now.

Anyway, the Russians need to be made to understood that none of this is helping Michelle Obama's children. Once Putin realizes that, watch as the Russian forces scurry for home, apologizing all the way.

IMO it's to early to make dire predictions about the future based on the bits of information coming out of Georgia and the CCCP Russia at the moment. I have a feeling that Bush is going to take actions that will make the kgb thug led Russian attempt to rape, pillage and destroy "punish" Georgia etc a very painful proposition. VDH in past essays often mentions the "law of unintended consequences" and imo the Russians put to much weight on the POTUS being "lame duck" and not wishing to attempt power projection to stop their overwhelming force etc... There's a lot th west can do to make Putin and company Russia pay dearly for it's actions and we'll just have to see how it plays out...

re: #248 Dustoff-507

im thinking more about the Chinooks and older coalition craft, not so much your Apaches and planes.

re: #243 pegcity

what happens if Russia and China both decide that there gonna take all of eastern Asia for themselves.

This is going to get very bad, i can see China seeing this as there chance to strike while the irons hot and take over a bunch of stans under the pretense of routing out terrorism.

Were offically living in a Tom Clancy novel.

If we back off, we're giving them permission to take over those countries. And they won't have to do it with guns; they can just make some subtle threats and get alliances because there will be no one they can count on to guarantee their independence.

re: #156 Occasional Reader

This game is just getting started, folks.

So true, and a dangerous game at that.

re: #222 pegcity

True,the russian army is truly a beast that cannot be efficient without a head.Each level of command waits for orders from above.and dares not take iniatative for fear of screwing up(or being blamed for screwing up)some generals grand strategem

re: #232 realwest

"The annexation of eastern Poland will be short in coming."
Uh, no it won't be coming at all. Poland HAS a military - a damn good one that a part of has been battle tested alongside our Forces in Iraq (and iirc,
Afghanistan) and they won't go quietly into that good night. Same with Ukraine - population of 50 million or so, balls enough to deny Russia's Naval Squadron back into it's home ports, etc.
This "game" (which it most assuredly is not) is not only not over, I think it's just beginning.

Agree. Poland and Ukraine will be much tougher. Frankly, Poland (errr, attempting to grab Poland) could well ignite a larger war. Ukraine is kind of weird historically vis-a-vis Russian, but Poland is a true nation (in the general sense of nation, not country).

re: #246 Dirk Diggler

OR,

You coward! Nothing less than the use of tactical nuclear weapons on Russian troops is an effective response!

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Tactical? Just "tactical" nukes? Why don't we give the Rooskies free bl*w jobs while we're at it, Mr. Appeasenik?

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re: #26 marge45b

Mother Russia will bilk NASA on trips to the ISS when the Shuttle retires.

WHY does the shuttle have to retire before the successor comes on line?

re: #251 pegcity

I'm confused... are yu talking about OUR birds or say Englands.

re: #168 Dustoff-507

Didn't they also have a James Bond movie on this too?

Yes, The World is Not Enough.

re: #209 Occasional Reader "there are other ways of fighting this" - respectfully, my friend, there are no other ways of fighting this if we aren't prepared to engage Russia in Georgia militarily. And BTW, Putin may (or may not) have 6,000 deliverable nukes (maitenance has been a massive problem for Russia) but Putin knows we have nukes too - better nukes and many of them aboard the "Boomers" - nuke powered subs just sitting at the bottom of the oceans, targets already keyed in and Putin knows that, too.
If we have NO credible will to use military force in Georgia (e.g., Putin decides to "teach us a lesson" and interfere with either Naval or Air Force attempts to deliver humanitarian aid and we just say "Oh, Ok") then there is No Other Way. With other nations maybe, but not with Russia.

re: #227 galloping granny

I think he wants to. I think he is just being very careful about rushing in where even angels fear to tread. Also remember the amount of time that he has to operate a war without Congressional oversight.

What would be interesting is if he counts backwards from his last day in office then launches any actual operations, covet or overt, with the intent of handing it over to the new POTUS to see if the new POTUS can have a reset on the war powers timeframe to adjust and finish etc - just in case congress is cowardly, bought off or anti-long term US survival/commie shills not friendly to the idea of conflict over Georgia...

Them's fightin' words!

re: #254 Boondock St. Bender

Bingo... only the top guys can set the direction. Lower class cannot.
This is what causes them so many problems in war.