Peace in our time!

Peace for our time!

re: #1 Ward Cleaver

You were slightly faster, but I got the quote right. Ha!

could be just as good as one of those Israeli/Palestinian cease-fires, ?

What the bear has the bear doesn't give up

Neville, we need you!

Personally, I think Putin has overplayed his hand. Sure he can probably stay in Georgia as long as he wants, but he is isolating Russia internationally in ways we could never have engineered.

re: #2 Occasional Reader

Peace Piece for our time!

Fixed it to make it more relevant. :-)

Oh good, it seems that Russia is quite reasonable and peace-loving. Not a bunch of blood soaked imperialists like America. Just taking care of their Sudeten Russian brothers...
/

Whirrled pease...

And Russian provocateurs will fire on peacefully withdrawing Russian troops and it will start up again.

How do you say "hudna" in russian?

It will last right up until the point someone tells the Russians no, which is an obvious breach of the cease fire.

/

Shouldn't this read Russian signs Cease fire with Georgia. Who the hell is the aggressor here? Vlad the Poisoner is making quite a name for himself and is getting all the Left all hot and bothered like cat's in heat.

Cyncism aside... I'm getting the feeling the Russians weren't counting on even this much of a reaction. It's somewhat late in coming, but not the complete rollover they were counting on.

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday he signed a cease-fire agreement with Russia, which protects the former Soviet republic’s interests despite concessions to Moscow.

That's getting old.

I'd like to read, 'The former Soviet Occupiers, Russia" just once.

Bolton: The United States fiddled while Georgia burned

The West, collectively, failed in this crisis. Georgia wasted its dime making that famous 3am telephone call to the White House, the one Hillary Clinton referred to in a campaign ad questioning Barack Obama’s fitness for the Presidency. Moreover, the blood on the Bear’s claws did not go unobserved in other states that were once part of the Soviet Union. Russia demonstrated unambiguously that it could have marched directly to Tbilisi and installed a puppet government before any Western leader was able to turn away from the Olympic Games. It could, presumably, do the same to them.

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It will last right up until the point someone tells the Russians no, which is an obvious breach of the cease fire.

/

Or someone looks cross-eyed at an inebriated officer.

re: #3 Occasional Reader

You were slightly faster, but I got the quote right. Ha!

Dang it!

Putin is embarrassing himself before the Russian people.

CO-EXISTSKI!

re: #15 Occasional Reader

IIRC, that's kind of how the felt about Afghanistan.

Peace with honor.

/not

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

Considering the Russian official's pronouncement about the territorial integrity of Georgia being a dead issue, I'd say about 3 seconds.

re: #14 Egfrow

Shouldn't this read Russian signs Cease fire with Georgia. Who the hell is the aggressor here? Vlad the Poisoner is making quite a name for himself and is getting all the Left all hot and bothered like cat's in heat.

Yeah. I wondered about the wording too.

and you can just bet georgia's relations are not so quietly arming her and themselves. military suppliers are going to havea field day. not to mention that missle defense just pegged the dial a lot of the former eastern block.

And the EU (pronounced: Ewwwwww) just showed itself up as being lame so the eastern block is reconsidering EU membership.

Bwahahahaha!

Ugh. We look too weak. Can't these humanitarian supplies be delivered by NATO tanks? I am so pissed off right now.

And God damn imperialist Russia and it's stinking czar

[spit]

re: #20 itellu3times

Putin is embarrassing himself before the Russian people.

I seriously doubt that. He will be celebrated as a hero of the Motherland.

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Peace with honor.

/not

Honor in pieces.

This will be Putin's Grenada, at best.

Sending the Russian army to steal toilet seats, come on now. And that's pretty much the story the Russian army will tell, when it gets home.

re: #15 Occasional Reader

Cyncism aside... I'm getting the feeling the Russians weren't counting on even this much of a reaction. It's somewhat late in coming, but not the complete rollover they were counting on.

That was Putin counting on, just like Hitler in the Rhineland in '36.

France and Britain rolled in '36. We've turned but not rolled, yet. GWB sounds firm, I think he'll stand. Sarkozy and Merkel sound firm also.

C'mon Saakashvili!

You can eat thunder and shit lightening!

re: #27 harrylook

Ugh. We look too weak. Can't these humanitarian supplies be delivered by NATO tanks? I am so pissed off right now.

And God damn imperialist Russia and it's stinking czar

[spit]

A B-52 can hold a tons of food and medicine.

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bolton: The United States fiddled while Georgia burned

Bolton for Secretary of State! With a BIG broom to clean out the garbage that currently inhabits Foggy Bottom.

re: #21 Dirk Diggler

CO-EXISTSKI!

*spew*
ROFL!

John Bolton has written the most eloquent, elegant commentary yet. It should spell troule for The One.......

re: #30 itellu3times

This will be Putin's Grenada, at best.

Sending the Russian army to steal toilet seats, come on now. And that's pretty much the story the Russian army will tell, when it gets home.

One thing Putin knows, is the psyche of his own people. He didn't get to the top of the KGB ranks by accident.

re: #36 tradewind

John Bolton has written the most eloquent, elegant commentary yet. It should spell troule for The One.......

troule?

re: #33 David IV of Georgia

A B-52 can hold a tons of food and medicine.

Or a lot of JDAM's for 500lb sniping.

re: #28 Egfrow

Putin is embarrassing himself before the Russian people.

I seriously doubt that. He will be celebrated as a hero of the Motherland.

Hear me now and believe me later! He will celebrate himself, no doubt, but these days are not the old days, he can't control the news, and the facts will be known to the Russian people before and in preference to anything he bleats about himself.

At least, that's my hope, and my bet.

re: #39 jcm

Or a lot of JDAM's for 500lb sniping.

Oh, yeah. I musta forgotten that....

He said he will “never, ever surrender” in showdown with Russia, and he accused the West of inviting Russian aggression.

It's just like the way the Bush 41 State Dept. gave the Iraqis a tentative green light to go into Kuwait.

re: #39 jcm

Or a lot of JDAM's for 500lb sniping.

It can also hold over 300 Boing Mini JDAMS each with a target.

re: #33 David IV of Georgia

A B-52 can hold a tons of food and medicine.

Not to mention ALCMs.

Is it almost that time, yet?

meow

re: #30 itellu3times

This will be Putin's Grenada, at best.

Don't knock Grenada, man.

Yes, it was a tiny island, etc. But it was Ronnie drawing a clear line in the sand against Soviet-backed expansionism. It meant something.

Russia's position is starting to remind me of the tiger Sher Khan in Kipling's Jungle Book. The beast ate and drank and got trapped in the watercourse by the stampeding cattle. The Russian army is stuck with it's pants open on the wrong side of the mountain and they can end up a bloody rug.

re: #40 itellu3times

Hear me now and believe me later! He will celebrate himself, no doubt, but these days are not the old days, he can't control the news, and the facts will be known to the Russian people before and in preference to anything he bleats about himself.

At least, that's my hope, and my bet.

The Russians have always historically supported a strongman. From Peter to Stalin. We are thinking like Westerners, Russians don't think like we do.

He said he will “never, ever surrender” in showdown with Russia, and he accused the West of inviting Russian aggression.

Um, is the Georgian president blaming the west for the invasion, rather than the Russians?

You've got to read this:

Georgia, Israel and the nature of man
By CAROLINE GLICK

It will educate you and just make you smarter.

Russia's pissed:

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

Yes- how dare those Americans help Russia's neighbors defend themselves!

How is this any different than the Palestinian cease-Fire! with the Israelis?

It isn't.

The Russians make all kinds of promises, and then proceed to continue doing what they've been doing all along - destabilizing the situation by continuing their military campaign.

re: #52 Sharmuta

Russia's pissed:

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Yes- how dare those Americans help Russia's neighbors defend themselves!

That work's Both ways.

re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

PIMF
and I get irony points for using the word 'spell ' in the same line.......

re: #51 opinionated

You've got to read this:

Georgia, Israel and the nature of man
By CAROLINE GLICK

It will educate you and just make you smarter.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

B-52s can also stay a few hundred miles away and launch cruise missiles.

The Russians and ROP'ers have almost identical negotiating tactics.

New at zomblog:

Obamarxism

Submitted by eagle-eyed zomblog reader Chris P.:

["Obamarxism" graffiti.]

Chris P. writes: “This image is from the financial district in San Francisco, corner of California/Front.

Is the tagger pro or anti marxism? Since it’s San Francisco, I’m not sure how to interpret it.”

re: #51 opinionated

You've got to read this:

Georgia, Israel and the nature of man
By CAROLINE GLICK

It will educate you and just make you smarter.

[Link: www.carolineglick.com...]

Here are the last paragraphs of an editorial comment in today's TIMES (London):
"The revised ceasefire being negotiated yesterday by Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, must pave the way for peace talks without preconditions. Russia and the US, meanwhile, must reassess the basis of their relationship. Dr Rice has already concluded, rightly, that the price of further Russian recklessness must be isolation. For its own part, Moscow may have found that in the short term it needs no foreign approval for its adventures. But its long-term prosperity depends critically on membership of international bodies such as the G8 and on broader integration in the global economy.

Russia faces a stark choice: its place in the Caucasus or its place in the world."

Pretty good stuff, you'll find the rest here.

I saw an article in the DT today about Russia saying--in essence--that McCain is bad, BHO is good. But, I cannot find it. It was around 4:30-4:45 Charles' time.

re: #34 Kosh's Shadow

Bolton for Secretary of State! With a BIG broom to clean out the garbage that currently inhabits Foggy Bottom.

Pres. Bush should make John Bolton a special envoy on the incident and put him in charge. Unfortunately, Secy Rice seems to have gone native in the appeasement oriented State Dept. She has established it with Pres. Bush's Uncle Abdullah in letting the Hizzies take over Lebanon. If we don't face down Russia's expansionist intent now, we will be back into the '50s. Starting the cold war all over. Rice is lacking credibility at being strong against this. Bolton would be excellent.

Huh, I liked this so much from the last thread (#685) that I'm reposting it:
Simply put: the Russian engagement in Georgia has been and continues to be an unmitigated disaster for Russia. She has shown the West - the US, Europe and those who share Western values that she just doesn't give a rat's ass about what we think. Russia is emboldened by it's oil wealth and what it believes is it's stranglehold on all of Europe because of that oil. It laid a fairly neat little ambush of Georgia and either because they lacked the intelligence information the US must have had, or didn't believe that intelligence or figured the US would come charging to their rescue, the Georgians rushed into the ambush and Russian snapped the trap closed. Unfortunately for Russia, I believe that this and their complete disdain for the U.S. and Western value nations, is going to lead to the brink of the end of Russia as any sort of World power. If the US chose to do so, we could RIGHT NOW, close those THREE highways from Russia into Georgia and the tunnels they go through and keep them closed, militarily. There is no doubt in my mind that the Russian Naval Squadron currently sitting in Poti harbor could wind up rusting away there if the US chooses to make it sit there (or sink) and backs the Ukraine's refusal to allow any Russian ships out to or in from the Black Sea.
And of course, secure that ever so precious pipeline.
Which leaves a Russian expeditionary force (it's not really big enough to be considered an Army) without supplies of any type, without reinforcements, without any air support and without any choice but to fight to the last man or surrender, SHOULD the US make that decision - it manifestly is NOT a decision that Russia can make. They have taken their best shot at Georgia (again should the US decide to make it so) and will wind up losing.
Russia has already, for all intents and purposes, lost the Ukraine, it's influence in the Baltic nations, and ALL of what we used to call Eastern Europe (Poland, Czechoslovakia, "East" Germany, etc.).
As a result of Putin's folly (again SHOULD the US make the right decisions here) Russia is in fact MORE isolated than ever; their new "5 year plans" for agricultural self-sufficiency (something it took Russia a long time to realize, because it was inconceivable that the Ukraine - breadbasket of the USSR - might NOT be willing to sell or trade it's food to Mother Russia) is nothing but pieces of paper now; China - even while in the midst of showing the World how modern they have become at the Olympics, has in fact been eying parts of Russia (the port of Vladivostok, much of Siberia and other parts of Russia) with unfeigned interest and desire and to whom can the Russian Bear turn to help it out? Seriously folks, to whom can Russia turn for help?
Of course this all turns on US resolve that if we don't stop Russia in Georgia, Russian may not be stoppable.

re: #43 Egfrow

It can also hold over 300 Boing Mini JDAMS each with a target.

4 rotary launchers, 8 weapons per launcher, 32 weapons. 4 more on the each wing pylon, 40 total weapons. Each JSOW AGM-184B has 24 very smart sub-munitions. That 960 tanks, tracks, APC, and trucks FUCKED-UP!

re: #52 Sharmuta

Russia's pissed:

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Yes- how dare those Americans help Russia's neighbors defend themselves!

So Russia says they'll attack anyone who tries to defend themselves. And somehow this isn't vicious aggression on Russia's behalf?

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bolton: The United States fiddled while Georgia burned

Bolton 08

re: #61 yma o hyd
Hey, hi there {ymo o hyd} how are you today?

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

Russia: Vodka uber alles.
Aggressive, abusive alcoholic behavior on a national scale. The whole country needs AA.

To Putin with love.

re: #53 lawhawk

How is this any different than the Palestinian cease-Fire! with the Israelis?

It isn't.

The Russians make all kinds of promises, and then proceed to continue doing what they've been doing all along - destabilizing the situation by continuing their military campaign.

They work also very diligently behind the scenes. Vlad the Poisoner not only has effectiveness controlling the Media and opponents in his own country but throughout the world. Even here in the USA. Most of the Russian US sites have toned down their rhetoric against Vlad the Poisoner dramatically in the last few years. You can use Google Translate to look at what the cover for their news.

re: #69 Opinionated

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

I'd rather shove bamboo shoots up my nails than read that bastard's drivel.

re: #52 Sharmuta

Russia's pissed:

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Yes- how dare those Americans help Russia's neighbors defend themselves!

Poland is NATO.
Russia rolls into Poland, WW-V is on.

I don't think (hope) Putin is that stupid.

re: #62 MandyManners

I saw an article in the DT today about Russia saying--in essence--that McCain is bad, BHO is good. But, I cannot find it. It was around 4:30-4:45 Charles' time.

The KGB endorsement! Excellent!

"This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now. "

-Navin R. Johnson

opinionated,

You can also read Buchanan.

No thanks. I think I'll go masturbate with sandpaper instead.

re: #67 jorline

Bolton 08

Last thread, if McCain doesn't put The Stash in Foggy Bottom with orders to clean up I won't be happy.

I'm hearing so many different views on this crisis, it's hard to know what to believe. But I think the large-scale and sustained "humanitarian assistance" is key. The fact is, with this mission description, we can pour as many troops as we wish into Georgia, and the Russians will have a very difficult time figuring out how to respond to them.

The reality is that we're eating major crow on this one. We had better figure out how to deal with similar Russian adventures in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, or lose all credibility in the international community.

The process of isolating Russia must begin immediately. Dissolving the G-8 would be an excellent first step. We also must begin immediate planning to shift Europe's energy supplies away from Russia.

re: #69 Opinionated

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

Oh, I read it.

That bastard might as well officially announce his support for BHO.

re: #77 Dirk Diggler

Owowowowowowowow. Ow.

A Russian political sciece professor has put out a story that the whole thing was engineered by Dick Cheney!
The theory goes that cheney & McCain realise that Obama is inevitable unless Americans can be frightened enough to support McCain. Ergo Russia is really the victim & Bush tried to resist, but the Republicans overwhelmed him.
the Russian papers are reporting this nutty story as fact.

re: #69 Opinionated

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

I wish Buchanan would just defect already. To somewhere.

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

Five Hours?

re: #74 jcm

Poland is NATO.
Russia rolls into Poland, WW-V is on.

I don't think (hope) Putin is that stupid.

It's not just that Poland is NATO- we signed a pact with them that any attack on them would be met with immediate action by the US.

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

Why so cynical Charles, it's a Rice made cease fire?

Here is some of her other work:

UNIFIL commander: Israel violating 1701

Commander of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) Maj.-Gen. Claudio Graziano on Thursday accused Israel of violating UN Security Council Resolution 1701 that brought an end to the Second Lebanon War.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

re: #52 Sharmuta Yep, and from your link (and thank you for that link):
"At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.
[emphasis, realwest]

Now if you haven't already, please read my #64.

re: #83 opnion

A Russian political sciece professor has put out a story that the whole thing was engineered by Dick Cheney!
The theory goes that cheney & McCain realise that Obama is inevitable unless Americans can be frightened enough to support McCain. Ergo Russia is really the victim & Bush tried to resist, but the Republicans overwhelmed him.
the Russian papers are reporting this nutty story as fact.

Rove you magnificent bastard!
/

re: #84 Occasional Reader

I wish Buchanan would just defect already. To somewhere.

Doesn't he have friends in Belgium?

re: #85 conservativeChick

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

Five Hours?

Boy are you optimistic.

re: #80 quickjustice

The reality is that we're eating major crow on this one. We had better figure out how to deal with similar Russian adventures in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, or lose all credibility in the international community.

The process of isolating Russia must begin immediately. Dissolving the G-8 would be an excellent first step. We also must begin immediate planning to shift Europe's energy supplies away from Russia.

How? That is their sole supplier.

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Russian military: Rape, looting, wanton destruction as a matter of policy.
US military: Virtually all atrocity stories proven false or overblown; perpetrators punished.

Unfair comparison! There are relatively few toilet seats in Iraq to loot in the first place!

I've been getting my news mostly via Google news this week, but all I see is reports of what the US is doing, or not.

What do the European countries say and where are the demonstrators? On vacation in Ibiza?

re: #34 Kosh's Shadow

Bolton for Secretary of State! With a BIG broom to clean out the garbage that currently inhabits Foggy Bottom.

Thats what I'd demand, too, if I had a vote.

His overview is simply spot on!
(And the widdle people at Foggy Bottom would do what is in the interest of the USA - or be shwon the door ...)

OR,

I wish Buchanan would just defect already. To somewhere.

Russian political cuture and Pat Buchanan are made for each other. They both revel in paranoia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.

re: #77 Dirk Diggler

opinionated,

No thanks. I think I'll go masturbate with sandpaper instead.

*spew*

re: #5 KSK

What the bear has the bear doesn't give up

re: #92 taxfreekiller

When commies know they are in trouble, they lie more.

Brought to you by the creeps who killed off their own royal family.

slightly ot, and this is supposedly a true story...a western diplomat on a visit to the soviet union some years ago, at the height of USSR power, was taken on tours of moscow, St petersburg, yekaterinburg and other cities. He mentioned to his soviet appointed guide how all the young russian women kept such beautiful slim figures, like models. The soviet guide responded "yes they are quite slim, but not by choice, many of them are undernourished, they are starving"

Now I have no idea of current situation in russia, but if they continue to do things like the georgia incident, and isolate themselves, the ones to pay will be the people of Russia. when the west refuses or cuts back doing business the people will suffer. You can't eat oil and natural gas. Heck most of the younger russians look for any chance they can get to get out now. maybe russia needs to return to their cold war ways to stay in existence? Start up the bread lines again comrade! I still think the cons far out weigh the pros for russia as a result from this trip to georgia.

Give Bush credit. The US is doing things without publicly announcing our plans and the Russians are suffering from verbal diarrhea. Remember Henry II's definition of "Winning" from my link yesterday? I plead guilty to impatience but it looks like we are moving the chess pieces now. Still worried about China and Turkey being tempted by Iran and still worried about the Russian army in Armenia.

re: #80 quickjustice Bush has already started to refer to it at the G-7 and as for the rest, please read my #64; I put a LOT of thought into it; I think Russia loses BIG TIME with this invasion of Georgia. We (the U.S.) doesn't have to attack anyone - we just need to have the right assets in place to respond to any attacks on our "humanitarian" mission.

re: #87 Sharmuta

It's not just that Poland is NATO- we signed a pact with them that any attack on them would be met with immediate action by the US.

The cynical bastard part of me wants Putin to "make my day."

re: #69 Opinionated

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

i wonder if PUKEANANAN SWALLOWS?

OT
My normal rant:
Too many people, including U.S. govt policy makers are still reading the lying dead tree newspapers.
[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]
I saw someone who said it's like they are just one big 527 pac with Hollywood. They are making stuff up and leaving stuff out. Deciding the story and then filling it in with garbage. But MILLIONS of people are still reading it every day at their breakfast table, even though subscription rates are falling. Their ultimate demise will not affect the policies and decisions made during these situations. LGF and Pajamas need to consider a briefing visit to govt and think tank type places to give the story of the lie to these folks or we will be cleaning up the mess for years (if it doesn't do us in through the results of this election cycle).

re: #84 Occasional Reader

I wish Buchanan would just defect already. To somewhere.

Buchanan deported to Sweden. Claims he's not from there.

"Fargin Bastiches"

re: #104 realwest

Bush has already started to refer to it at the G-7 and as for the rest, please read my #64; I put a LOT of thought into it; I think Russia loses BIG TIME with this invasion of Georgia. We (the U.S.) doesn't have to attack anyone - we just need to have the right assets in place to respond to any attacks on our "humanitarian" mission.

re: #104 realwest

Bush has already started to refer to it at the G-7 and as for the rest, please read my #64; I put a LOT of thought into it; I think Russia loses BIG TIME with this invasion of Georgia. We (the U.S.) doesn't have to attack anyone - we just need to have the right assets in place to respond to any attacks on our "humanitarian" mission.

I wonder what the flight line at Incirlik looks like? I'd bet pretty crowded.

re: #68 realwest

Hey, hi there {ymo o hyd} how are you today?

Fine, thanks - a nice sunny, day, low 70s, who cares: the thing is, there was no rain!
How are you?

re: #91 scottishbuzzsaw

Doesn't he have friends in Belgium?

Why, yes. Yes he does.

re: #104 realwest

Bush has already started to refer to it at the G-7 and as for the rest, please read my #64; I put a LOT of thought into it; I think Russia loses BIG TIME with this invasion of Georgia. We (the U.S.) doesn't have to attack anyone - we just need to have the right assets in place to respond to any attacks on our "humanitarian" mission.

Funny how often the few remaining Bush supporters need to resort to fantasy.

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey
"Curious, that" indeed. But c'mon buzz - you KNOW that the MSM and the radical left wing of the Dem's have always wanted BAD things to happen to the U.S. while a Repubican is President, because under that circumstance, BAD things for American = Dem's chance to get back into power.

re: #65 jcm

4 rotary launchers, 8 weapons per launcher, 32 weapons. 4 more on the each wing pylon, 40 total weapons. Each JSOW AGM-184B has 24 very smart sub-munitions. That 960 tanks, tracks, APC, and trucks FUCKED-UP!

Boeing has been working on smaller JDAMS, about 80 pounds each. Not in service yet but word is they are coming soon. The fuzes can be detonated at any altitude and any placement, They can be grouped together to in small bunches for bigger punch, they can be used as combination High/Low burst, they can even create holes in the bombing zone to protect Friendly.

but but but... The media told us this was just Russia's "Peace Keeping Mission".

re: #111 Sharmuta

Why, yes. Yes he does.

Match made in hell...

re: #116 scottishbuzzsaw

Match made in hell...

True, dat.

re: #112 Opinionated
Care to elucidate? I mean SPECIFICALLY?

re: #85 conservativeChick

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

Five Hours?

Can I take dibs on Sunday morning EDT?

re: #103 lifeofthemind

Give Bush credit.

Read the link in #56 and see if Bush deserves any credit.

re: #61 yma o hyd

That was a good article, the UK papers seem to be taking a pretty strong position against Russia's actions. I can't find the link right now, but they've reported that most of the Russians are from the 42d Division, made up of Chechens and a good many of them are running wild, they had one article showing them cleaning out a bank in Gori, grabbing the cash and all the laptops they can find. Putin is going to take his time rubbing as much salt in the wounds of the Georgians as he can.

re: #88 Opinionated

And didn't the UN guy say they're working quite well with Hezbollah? Right. Directing traffic to facilitate construction of expanded tunnels and placement of the new arms. Check.

re: #118 realwest

Care to elucidate? I mean SPECIFICALLY?

Read Glick.

It's over. Russia got what it wanted.

There is a hundred and twenty messages here... has the cease-fire been broken yet?

i really think that the Russians got themselves over the top, threatening Poland.
A couple of days ago, I stumbled into the idea that the way to see the Russian bid & raise was to arm up Poland. Voila!
It is making them nuts. Poland is a whole other issue from Georgia.
We have a huge polish population in the U.S. Chicago is 2nd only to Warsaw.
They had the Solidrity Movement. They resisted before the Wall came down & they are crazy pro American.
A Russian general has actually held out the threat of nukeing Poland, if they install the weapons. Bullshit!

re: #94 MandyManners

That may be true in some cases, but there are options. The Middle East still supplies much of Europe's energy. That makes our success in Iraq even more important. It also means dealing with the Iranian regime sooner rather than later. Putin can cut off Europe's energy supplies, but that also cuts off his cash flow. No customers, no cash. By beginning contingency planning to move away from Russia as a source of natural gas, we signal the Russians that their cash cow will disappear if they don't clean up their act.

The situation is volatile, because there are several sources of potential threats. The Russians have been working with the Iranians, who are murdering our troops, supplying the Syrians and Hezbollah, etc. They can set off a chain reaction, and we had better be able to deal with it.

re: #114 Egfrow

Boeing has been working on smaller JDAMS, about 80 pounds each. Not in service yet but word is they are coming soon. The fuzes can be detonated at any altitude and any placement, They can be grouped together to in small bunches for bigger punch, they can be used as combination High/Low burst, they can even create holes in the bombing zone to protect Friendly.

In Iraq they've been bolting the JDAM guidance empenage onto concrete practice bombs and literally using them as sniper rounds. Take out a car and occupants with the kinetic energy and leave the windows of the building next to it intact.

We've change warfare, and have yet to play full up hard ball.

re: #74 jcm

This goes back to what I wrote yesterday. Russia is taking advantage of a situation because of the fear of escalation. They figure that the US can't or wont respond to the escalation in kind. So, they've gone on their military adventurism as a result. When the US responded asymmetrically - both in the US-Polish missile defense system (which is used for continental defense against missiles launched - not as offense, btw), and the US humanitarian airlift, the Russian response has been to label both as aggressions that will not be tolerated and respond with further actions.

Again, the Russians think that nations defending themselves against Russian aggression is a provocation. Georgia defending itself against South Ossetian provocateurs is aggression; Poland hosting a US missile defense system is aggression.

The problem, however, remains that the Russians are using the US and West's fear of escalation to their advantage by continuing military actions (and covert missions) to further their agenda. Whether it is out of a sense of Western weakness or lack of focus, the Russians are clearly pushing their agenda to the maximum.

re: #114 Egfrow
80 lbs? Wonder if our new "drones" can handle 'em.
Sorta like the old drones used Hellfire missiles?

re: #121 JHW

That was a good article, the UK papers seem to be taking a pretty strong position against Russia's actions. I can't find the link right now, but they've reported that most of the Russians are from the 42d Division, made up of Chechens and a good many of them are running wild, they had one article showing them cleaning out a bank in Gori, grabbing the cash and all the laptops they can find. Putin is going to take his time rubbing as much salt in the wounds of the Georgians as he can.

Ahem - I am not sure about 'the UK papers' at all - even in the TIMES yesterday there was a hefty does of appeasement in one of the comments.
This stuff comes from the Foreign Politics editor, and I think he is rather good.
As for the rest - I'm not wasting my time loking at the LLL Guardian, and ther esta re more interested in Peaches Geldof (daugther of Bono's friend!) marrying in Las Vegas ...

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bolton: The United States fiddled while Georgia burned

It isn't so easy to take them all, one after the other, as it is to invade the first one. Each new outrage tips the political scales further against Russia. Each new incursion requires a fresh mobilization. Russia has clearly prepared this thing for months. Are they set to hit Ukraine, Estonia, etc.?

Ukraine is a bigger fish. Kiev has far greater strategic depth than Tbilisi. Militarily, Ukraine is no match for Russia, but neither are they a force that would fold in the first few hours. If Russia has some long term plan, a spate of reckless conquests now can hardly serve that plan---even assuming the invasions all work as planned. Later targets would be put on guard.

If Russia has no long term plan, just a thirst for some relief from the constant humiliations that are the lot of any nation without rule of law, without sober citizens, and without much of a next generation in the pipeline, then it would be cheaper and safer to just get some more bottles of vodka out and pass them around.

Here's a thought. Get a clue. Put your own house in order. Your people have what it takes to compete economically. Copy China, if you want to preserve State power and an authoritarian regime. You even have a ton of oil money to smooth the way. Spend it wisely. Don't fit the dismissive characterization by a Chinese poster in the British Times Online coverage of this Georgia thing, that Russia is Saudi Arabia with trees.

re: #122 Sunlight

And didn't the UN guy say they're working quite well with Hezbollah? Right. Directing traffic to facilitate construction of expanded tunnels and placement of the new arms. Check.

Yes, the UN commander, was Schultz his name? said they saw no evidence of arms smuggling, and couldn't do anything about it unless Lebanon asked them to.
Clearly the UN is on the side of the terrorists; Bush should throw them out of the US, and Israel should tell them they leave or they're considered giving support to the terrorists.

re: #127 jcm

In contrast, the Russians don't care about collateral damage and will simply use whatever is handy to blow up their enemies. The media, however, doesn't pay that much attention, but if someone cracks a fingernail in a US military operation, calls for war crimes tribunals start immediately.

re: #69 Opinionated

You can also read Buchanan.

Blowback from Bear-Baiting

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

It will make you puke.

(Don't miss his usual shots at Israel)

Oh, this one's a beaut:

Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.

True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?

re: #1227 MandyManners

She's saying what the president told her to say.

You may be right, but if so she should have sweet-talked him out of it, and might have, if she knew better.

re: #128 lawhawk

That, and they believe GWB is lame duck with a hostile congress. Add the fear of escalation, that you put very well to the preception GWB is hamstrung, and you've got this mess.

You can thank Reid, Pelousi, et. al. in part for this, they've created the impression the US will not respond.

re: #128 lawhawk

Maybe, but when they start getting kicked out of international organizations and ostracized like they were during the cold war, they may start to reconsider their posture. Other than energy, their economy is still a shambles. They can still be made to squeal if we really try.

re: #132 taxfreekiller

The Georgian Foreign Min. says now the Russians have helo's out over forest setting them on fire, they report 12 to 14 large forest fires have been set this way today.

Smoke that U.S. Democratic Party global warming loons .....

Just as evil as Saddam Hussien in Kuwait's oil fields.

re: #126 quickjustice

That may be true in some cases, but there are options. The Middle East still supplies much of Europe's energy. That makes our success in Iraq even more important. It also means dealing with the Iranian regime sooner rather than later. Putin can cut off Europe's energy supplies, but that also cuts off his cash flow. No customers, no cash. By beginning contingency planning to move away from Russia as a source of natural gas, we signal the Russians that their cash cow will disappear if they don't clean up their act.

The situation is volatile, because there are several sources of potential threats. The Russians have been working with the Iranians, who are murdering our troops, supplying the Syrians and Hezbollah, etc. They can set off a chain reaction, and we had better be able to deal with it.

How is the natural gas delivered? Where's the pipeline?

Here is Georgian message to Russians:

re: #120 Opinionated

Read the link in #56 and see if Bush deserves any credit.

Bush knows oil and pipelines and after Iraq he believes in establishing a paper trail. Yes we can just go in with a clear conscious but he feels he needs to get more treaties and humanitarian multi national fingerprints in there. The important thing is the goal "We Win, They Lose."

re: #130 yma o hyd

Sadly you are right, the Guardian is nothing but predictable. The comments sections in all the papers are loaded with "innocent Russia" apologists, many of them claiming to be from the US. I suspect an organized effort to mold public opinion has never been forgotten in the Kremlin.

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...] is down again.

Gettin' down to the lick-log, this is what should wake us up:
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

re: #125 opnion

i really think that the Russians got themselves over the top, threatening Poland.
A couple of days ago, I stumbled into the idea that the way to see the Russian bid & raise was to arm up Poland. Voila!
It is making them nuts. Poland is a whole other issue from Georgia.
We have a huge polish population in the U.S. Chicago is 2nd only to Warsaw.
They had the Solidrity Movement. They resisted before the Wall came down & they are crazy pro American.
A Russian general has actually held out the threat of nukeing Poland, if they install the weapons. Bullshit!

More than bullshit - because Germany, for once, would certainly not take that lying down - part of modern Poland incorporates former German provinces, so tis very very close to home.
And like the Poles, the Gemrans have not forgotten what the Soviet troups did, especially after the war ended and they isntilled their puppet government.

Oh - and we in the UK have a long memory too - going back to the Polish fighters in WWII, and how they got the Enigma machine which allowed us to decode the secter messages from the Gemran Amred Forces ...

Its not just bullshit - its also greed, and that is, as the Russians perhaps don't realise, not only a mortal sin, but has led to the downfall of many!

re: #49 Egfrow

The Russians have always historically supported a strongman. From Peter to Stalin. We are thinking like Westerners, Russians don't think like we do.

I know, the Russians are different, hyper-logical, yet able to believe some pretty weird stuff, and like anyone happy to support their own side against anyone.

But as far as I know, the Russian people have never really been expansionist, it's the czars and commies who set those policies. At worst they will recognize these actions in Georgia for what they are, even if publicly they might quote the party line.

re: #132 taxfreekiller

The Georgian Foreign Min. says now the Russians have helo's out over forest setting them on fire, they report 12 to 14 large forest fires have been set this way today.

Smoke that U.S. Democratic Party global warming loons .....

How fast can B-52s be fitted with "water bombing" gear?

re: #141 The world of fuzziness

Here is Georgian message to Russians:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Cripes. Is there any place in the world I can go and not hear that crap called "rap music"?

re: #140 MandyManners

How is the natural gas delivered? Where's the pipeline?

Editorial Cartoon that is right on topic.

re: #113 realwest

"Curious, that" indeed. But c'mon buzz - you KNOW that the MSM and the radical left wing of the Dem's have always wanted BAD things to happen to the U.S. while a Repubican is President, because under that circumstance, BAD things for American = Dem's chance to get back into power.

Hi Real. I scrolled back up & read your #64. Well reasoned, that the Russians have really stepped into it. But a huge caveat, if Obama is elected, there is no reason for them to desist.
Any sanctions by Bush would probably be lifted.
Listen to Obama, the rhetoric is Marxist. He probably doesn't really believe that Putin did anything wrong.

re: #133 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, the UN commander, was Schultz his name? said they saw no evidence of arms smuggling, and couldn't do anything about it unless Lebanon asked them to.
Clearly the UN is on the side of the terrorists; Bush should throw them out of the US, and Israel should tell them they leave or they're considered giving support to the terrorists.

I think Russia is doing a big fake as a diversion... to shield Iran. Israel needs to stay really really focused on their own neighborhood because that is where the bigger action is going to take place. Heads up, Israel!

re: #141 The world of fuzziness

Here is Georgian message to Russians:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

I wish I could send that to Putin.

re: #150 Ford_Prefect

Editorial Cartoon that is right on topic.

Good one.

re: #134 lawhawk

In contrast, the Russians don't care about collateral damage and will simply use whatever is handy to blow up their enemies. The media, however, doesn't pay that much attention, but if someone cracks a fingernail in a US military operation, calls for war crimes tribunals start immediately.

Mass destruction and collateral damage is part of the strategy. Terrorize the target population into compliance.

brb

re: #154 MandyManners

I wish I could send that to Putin.

That SOB would put it in his favorites.

re: #140 MandyManners

How is the natural gas delivered? Where's the pipeline?

Iirc, that pipeline goes through Poland somewhere, to Germany and on ...
Its the 'deal' which the former (LLL) Chancellor of Germany, Schroeder, is heavily and officially involved in. Gets him lots of sweet money ...

re: #114 Egfrow

Boeing has been working on smaller JDAMS, about 80 pounds each. Not in service yet but word is they are coming soon. The fuzes can be detonated at any altitude and any placement, They can be grouped together to in small bunches for bigger punch, they can be used as combination High/Low burst, they can even create holes in the bombing zone to protect Friendly.

Kewl. Put winglets on them so they're little stand-off weapons, can be dropped from ten miles away and find their way home.

Still, in general, I'm against that, if a small bomb is good, a bigger bomb is better in about 99% of cases.

re: #126 quickjustice

That may be true in some cases, but there are options. The Middle East still supplies much of Europe's energy. That makes our success in Iraq even more important. It also means dealing with the Iranian regime sooner rather than later. Putin can cut off Europe's energy supplies, but that also cuts off his cash flow. No customers, no cash. By beginning contingency planning to move away from Russia as a source of natural gas, we signal the Russians that their cash cow will disappear if they don't clean up their act.

The situation is volatile, because there are several sources of potential threats. The Russians have been working with the Iranians, who are murdering our troops, supplying the Syrians and Hezbollah, etc. They can set off a chain reaction, and we had better be able to deal with it.

This is the reason I'm in favor of alternate fuels and technologies. The best way to drain the swamp is to stop ourselves and Europe, India, China, et al from buying oil from the creeps of the world. U.S. oil is fine with me, but we have to feed the grid from everything we can come up with. These people raking in the $millions are up to no good.

re: #80 quickjustice

The reality is that we're eating major crow on this one. We had better figure out how to deal with similar Russian adventures in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, or lose all credibility in the international community.

The process of isolating Russia must begin immediately. Dissolving the G-8 would be an excellent first step. We also must begin immediate planning to shift Europe's energy supplies away from Russia.

Krauthammer has a good list of actions we could take against Russia.

How to Stop Putin

re: #143 JHW

Sadly you are right, the Guardian is nothing but predictable. The comments sections in all the papers are loaded with "innocent Russia" apologists, many of them claiming to be from the US. I suspect an organized effort to mold public opinion has never been forgotten in the Kremlin.

Yes, exactly. And added to that are the usual leftie wailings, even in the TIMES>
I've given up on reading any comments there - it looked to me like an organised undertaking as well, supported by some of the leftie media types, even at the Times.

re: #123 Opinionated
I read Glick when you first linked it and thought "Oh geez, she's right - Israel is as good as dead."
Then I remembered that the Urkraine (50,000,000 people as opposed to Georgia's 4,000,00) and the "breadbasket" of the old Soviet Union has stated NO Russian ships will be allowed in OR OUT of the Black Sea.
Then I read Poland has agreed to our ABM treaty.
Then I read that WE won't allow Russia to interfere with our humanitarian relief efforts in any way.
Then I remembered how much trouble Mother Russia has with it's own Muslims and how the Arab states of OPEC would LOVE to see Russia's oil exporting curtailed a lot.

Then I reviewed my #682 and #685 from the Dead Thread and realized that all the time and effort I put into those posts was not wasted, nor was I wrong.
ISRAEL is not dead - fuck Caroline Glick's doom and gloom approach to World Affairs; Russia has TRULY overplayed it's plan.
And I ask you, again, to whom is Russia going to turn for help? They can't eat oil, ya know?

re: #161 itellu3times

Kewl. Put winglets on them so they're little stand-off weapons, can be dropped from ten miles away and find their way home.

Still, in general, I'm against that, if a small bomb is good, a bigger bomb is better in about 99% of cases.

Our trend is smarter, smaller. If your sniper accurate with high kill rate, smaller is better. Zap the target and only the target.

Big has it's uses, small and very accurate is preferable in liberating friendly territory.

BTW - Has anyone heard from Rep. Murtha re: the Russian soldiers' murder, rape and robbery of Georgia?

He was sure quick to toss our Marines off a cliff.

Sec Def Gates just pointed out that every August since 2004 there has been an exchange of fire between South Ossetia & Georgia. For some reason, Russia suddenly pounced on this occasion to launch a major invasion.

IMO, clearly Russia has this setup and ready to go long before the Georgians acted.

But then again, I'm just a Kremlin Stooge, so what do I know...

re: #152 opnion

Hi Real. I scrolled back up & read your #64. Well reasoned, that the Russians have really stepped into it. But a huge caveat, if Obama is elected, there is no reason for them to desist.
Any sanctions by Bush would probably be lifted.
Listen to Obama, the rhetoric is Marxist. He probably doesn't really believe that Putin did anything wrong.

I think Putin miscalculated and made sure McCain wins, instead of Obama.
Who do you think most Americans want in the Oval Office at a time like this? A waffling Obama or the white-haired dude who stood up to communist torture for several years?

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Russian rush to war in Georgia: Overnight.
US "rush to war" in Iraq: Six months plus Twelve years minus.

Fixed. (IMO)

re: #163 RTLM

Krauthammer has a good list of actions we could take against Russia.

How to Stop Putin

The real objective is the Finlandization of Georgia through the removal of President Mikheil Saakashvili and his replacement by a Russian puppet.

re: #7 Nevergiveup

Personally, I think Putin has overplayed his hand. Sure he can probably stay in Georgia as long as he wants, but he is isolating Russia internationally in ways we could never have engineered.

does he care?

re: #64 realwest

Block the three tunnels, and the Russians are cut off? Secure the pipeline?

Armchair strategist. No pipeline can be secured against the kind of air power Russia has. As to blocked tunnels, there are back roads. They might not be the best supply route, but they're there. And what sort of supply route does the U.S. have into Georgia? Turkey hasn't signed on for a war. That leaves air supply into Tbilisi airport. The Russians can close that at a moment's notice, and they can overrun it in a day.

All this skirts an important issue. This thing is dangerous. At some point, it may come to a shooting war between Russia and the U.S. We want to avoid that if at all possible. If it cannot be avoided, we must have taken slaps to both cheeks before fighting, we need friends who see the necessity and justice of our cause, and above all, we need the Russian people to understand that it is their own leaderships mad ambitions that are the cause of the disaster. Disaster it would be---any war with Russia is a disaster. Winning is losing, losing is losing bigger. In the larger scheme of things, Russia is our natural friend. We need them intact and vigorous.

But not paranoid.

re: #165 realwest

I read Glick when you first linked it and thought "Oh geez, she's right - Israel is as good as dead."
Then I remembered that the Urkraine (50,000,000 people as opposed to Georgia's 4,000,00) and the "breadbasket" of the old Soviet Union has stated NO Russian ships will be allowed in OR OUT of the Black Sea.
Then I read Poland has agreed to our ABM treaty.
Then I read that WE won't allow Russia to interfere with our humanitarian relief efforts in any way.
Then I remembered how much trouble Mother Russia has with it's own Muslims and how the Arab states of OPEC would LOVE to see Russia's oil exporting curtailed a lot.

Then I reviewed my #682 and #685 from the Dead Thread and realized that all the time and effort I put into those posts was not wasted, nor was I wrong.
ISRAEL is not dead - fuck Caroline Glick's doom and gloom approach to World Affairs; Russia has TRULY overplayed it's plan.
And I ask you, again, to whom is Russia going to turn for help? They can't eat oil, ya know?

Caroline needs more sunshine. She does jump to doom first. I read her stuff because she does have lots of info in it, but often I think of a different conclusion even from her info. She is smart though.

Also, remember that Israel has lots of Russia's smart people in their current population working on things. And that lots of Russia's technology migrated to the west during a variety of "commercialization" programs aimed at their remaining scientists during the '90s.

re: #153 Sunlight

I think Russia is doing a big fake as a diversion... to shield Iran. Israel needs to stay really really focused on their own neighborhood because that is where the bigger action is going to take place. Heads up, Israel!

And the US is refusing to ship Israel some weapons to use against Iran, and is blocking them from attacking Iran in other ways as well. Not that Olmerde would be likely to do anything.

re: #163 RTLM

Krauthammer has a good list of actions we could take against Russia.

How to Stop Putin

Krauthammer is a genius.

re: #138 Nevergiveup
Ah, yup - please see my #64 above.

We should start having joint military exercises with the Polish military to get them up to speed on working with the U.S. forces, and I mean big ones .I'm sure having a couple of U.S. armored divisions working with the Poles would drive the Russians apeshit.

re: #173 lostlakehiker

Block the three tunnels, and the Russians are cut off? Secure the pipeline?

Armchair strategist. No pipeline can be secured against the kind of air power Russia has. As to blocked tunnels, there are back roads. They might not be the best supply route, but they're there. And what sort of supply route does the U.S. have into Georgia? Turkey hasn't signed on for a war. That leaves air supply into Tbilisi airport. The Russians can close that at a moment's notice, and they can overrun it in a day.

All this skirts an important issue. This thing is dangerous. At some point, it may come to a shooting war between Russia and the U.S. We want to avoid that if at all possible. If it cannot be avoided, we must have taken slaps to both cheeks before fighting, we need friends who see the necessity and justice of our cause, and above all, we need the Russian people to understand that it is their own leaderships mad ambitions that are the cause of the disaster. Disaster it would be---any war with Russia is a disaster. Winning is losing, losing is losing bigger. In the larger scheme of things, Russia is our natural friend. We need them intact and vigorous.

But not paranoid.

or so constantly drunk.

re: #94 MandyManners

How? That is their sole supplier.

Eurabia. Didn't Europe sell their soul in the 1970's for promises of guaranteed future supplies of arab oil, agreeing to massive immigration, voting rights, jobs, welfare and education benefits for immigrants, anti-US/Israel policies, and general dhimmitude?

re: #144 MandyManners

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...] is down again.

Shazou add-on for firefox reports:

Server: [Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...]
IP Address: 212.48.115.172
Organization: Artfiles New Media GmbH
Country: Germany
City, State: Hamburg, 04

Organization Name: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
Address: P.O. Box [omitting]
City, State: Amsterdam,
Postal Code: 1001EB
Country: NL

Considering the state of war, many Georgia sites may be fake. Don't know about this one, but I have my suspicions.

We all can fantasize about what a military response might look like, but the reality is that a war plan is not in place to deal with this contingency. We're improvising as we go. Russia blindsided us.

We abandoned the Cold War "Soviet aggression" meme for a new, friendly "Russia joining world community" meme. That worked until Putin began destroying the institutions of the fledgling Russian democracy. We didn't respond to that except for slaps on the hand. Putin now emerges as the new Czar, and we are unprepared.

We'd better get our strategic act together in a hurry.

....But Russia says it will not talk to Saakashvili. Thus regime change becomes the first requirement for any movement on any front. This will be Putin's refrain in the coming days. He is counting on Europe to pressure Saakashvili to resign and/or flee to "give peace a chance."

Putin is looking for more Putin puppets.

and the bullshit leftwingers in th press are cool with it.

"Mr. Saakashvili, did you reach out to the Russians"
-- USEFUL IDIOT at CNN

Russian troops still deep inside Georgia....

Sounds like pron.
///

re: #168 Kenneth

Sec Def Gates just pointed out that every August since 2004 there has been an exchange of fire between South Ossetia & Georgia. For some reason, Russia suddenly pounced on this occasion to launch a major invasion.

IMO, clearly Russia has this setup and ready to go long before the Georgians acted.

But then again, I'm just a Kremlin Stooge, so what do I know...

When did the Russian troops get into Abkhazia? The "railroad soldiers" (400 or so) supposedly left on 8/2/08.

re: #169 Kosh's Shadow

I think Putin miscalculated and made sure McCain wins, instead of Obama.
Who do you think most Americans want in the Oval Office at a time like this? A waffling Obama or the white-haired dude who stood up to communist torture for several years?

I very tentatively agree. The law of uninteded consequences.
Will people vote their fear & choose a weak appeaser like Obama with Marxist sympathy or a slightly addled war hero, who will scare the hell out of the Russians & islamists? I hope that we go the latter. The former is too heinous.

re: #181 quickjustice

We all can fantasize about what a military response might look like, but the reality is that a war plan is not in place to deal with this contingency. We're improvising as we go. Russia blindsided us.

We abandoned the Cold War "Soviet aggression" meme for a new, friendly "Russia joining world community" meme. That worked until Putin began destroying the institutions of the fledgling Russian democracy. We didn't respond to that except for slaps on the hand. Putin now emerges as the new Czar, and we are unprepared.

We'd better get our strategic act together in a hurry.

I don't know why you think that... the U.S. seems to be acting in a very steady progression (read: plan!). They have plans for absolutely everything.

re: #168 Kenneth Hey you effin' Kremlin Stooge! LOL!
How are you doing today my friend?

re: #180 abolitionist

Considering the state of war, many Georgia sites may be fake. Don't know about this one, but I have my suspicions.

The one I linked is NOT fake. It's been around a while.

SAVAGE DID CHARLES DELETE ALL YOU PREVIOUS POSTS?

CHL, he sure fucking did. Almost seven years worth of posts gone in a few seconds.

Seven years worth.

PAIN.

re: #165 realwest

I see your fantasies also interfere with reading comprehension.

The article is mostly about the situation in Georgia. Your hero Bush and his incompetent appeasing sidekick have thrown Georgia over. The humanitarian aid is balm only.

Russia gets what it wants and it is sealed with the Rice "cease fire".

Folks like you also had good explanations for the Hezbullah Israel cease fire which has been a disaster.

No matter what, Bush's support never goes down beneath a certain core- a core of clueless people who see things though their own rose colored glasses totally devoid of reality.

re: #140 MandyManners

Here's the map of natural gas pipelines:

[Link: www.inogate.org...]

re: #167 RTLM

BTW - Has anyone heard from Rep. Murtha re: the Russian soldiers' murder, rape and robbery of Georgia?

He was sure quick to toss our Marines off a cliff.

Part and parcel with the hard left hypocrisy. It's only an issue if it is done by the US forces. US invades and liberates country where 1.5M people butchered by tyrant and sons, used WMD on their own people, launched 2 major regional wars, raped and pillaged Kuwait, spent 12 years violating 16 UNSC resolutions, violated the cease fire agreement that ended the Gulf War I, spent 3 years firing on US and coalition aircraft enforcing no-fly zones, and the US had not only a supermajority congressional approval but also did so with the direct assistance of 34 other nations - and it's all out seethe and hate by the el cubos.

However, Russia, after weeks of economic and cyberwarfare attacks on Georgia launches a truely unilateral invasion against a democratic and pro-Western government and gutted that country, apparently has ignored cease fire agreements, and will not stop until it can annex additional strategic territory, change the Georgian regime to instill a compliant puppet government using the same tactics that Hitler used in Czechoslovakia and Stalin used in the Baltic states and Eastern Europe......and the el cubos are silent.

Was there any real doubt as to which side they are on?

hint - it's any side that is against the values of freedom and capitalism and the US.

re: #181 quickjustice

We all can fantasize about what a military response might look like, but the reality is that a war plan is not in place to deal with this contingency. We're improvising as we go.

I believe you are wrong,when it comes to the Russians and Eastern Europe the U.S. military has been gaming every possible scenario for the last 60 years.

re: #186 Sunlight

I'm on our side, and the side of the Georgians, in this, but I don't see anything other than improvisation at the moment.

Where are our divisions? Where is our armor? Where is our air support? Where is our Navy?

Answer: The military option isn't even on the table.

re: #188 MandyManners

Ok, good to know.

How bad is CNN? (I'm posting this again because it reveals a level of sickness at CNN that sinks to a new low)

"Drive-By Media, Russia and Georgia, perhaps the most idiotic, stupid question yet was asked by CNN info babe Suzanne Malveaux. Last night, The Situation Room, she was talking with the Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili. (-Rush)

CNN's MALVEAUX asks Saakashvili:

"Have you reached out to them? Do you feel there's any room for negotiation or at least to begin a dialogue or discussions?"

re: #193 bulwrk

And our game plan in this situation is diplomacy, correct?

re: #168 Kenneth

Sec Def Gates just pointed out that every August since 2004 there has been an exchange of fire between South Ossetia & Georgia. For some reason, Russia suddenly pounced on this occasion to launch a major invasion.

IMO, clearly Russia has this setup and ready to go long before the Georgians acted.

But then again, I'm just a Kremlin Stooge, so what do I know...

Off course it was a set up. It takes months to coordinate an operation of this size. The point is that SO "irregulars" who held Russian passports were killing Georgian police. Then Saakashivili got the report that 150 Russian tanks were emerging from the tunnel so he gave the order to shell the bridge. Obviously the bridge should have been mined to blow by remote control.

The after action report on this will be a creative white wash of the sorry sack of sh*t at CIA or DIA who was responsible for monitoring that tunnel and giving warning that the Russian army was on the move.

The Russian propaganda position is that the Georgians suddenly acted like Palestinians and turned their guns on the peaceful Russians who were doing joint patrols with them so they could run off in an orgy of ethnic cleansing. If that wasn't a laughable story for a 3 day news cycle the response to such an unprovoked aggression would have been a Russian airborne unit running in on the heels of police, ambulances and North Ossetian militia.

I am sure we will avoid it at almost any cost, but if the shit hits the fan, we would kick Russia's ass back to the stone age. (not counting nukes)

re: #196 FrogMarch

How bad is CNN? (I'm posting this again because it reveals a level of sickness at CNN that sinks to a new low)

"Drive-By Media, Russia and Georgia, perhaps the most idiotic, stupid question yet was asked by CNN info babe Suzanne Malveaux. Last night, The Situation Room, she was talking with the Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili. (-Rush)

CNN's MALVEAUX asks Saakashvili:

I stopped watching CNN years ago because of their blatant anti-American, anti-Israel, pro-air head slant.

re: #193 bulwrk

We all can fantasize about what a military response might look like, but the reality is that a war plan is not in place to deal with this contingency. We're improvising as we go.

I believe you are wrong,when it comes to the Russians and Eastern Europe the U.S. military has been gaming every possible scenario for the last 60 years.

That's a fact. Soldiers & Marines before deployment to Viet Nam, still trained in Urban Warfare directed agaist the Soviets.

re: #189 Ben Hur

PAIN.

That cute savage guy asked for it.

This invasion by Russia and the lack of resonse from the EU has doomed the fate of the EU forever...

Nations who once might have wished to be states now see that the EU is a waste of time...

Stop fantasizing.

There is nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing that the Russians will do in Georgia where the US will engage them militarily.

The time to stop them was prior to the invasion.

When our Sec of State was too busy with her one and only project- forcing Israeli concessions to the Islamic terrorists.

re: #184 MandyManners

The Russians did have a small contingent of "peace keepers" there, but a large force landed at the port city of Poti (in Abkhazia) on August 9th. and unloaded APC's and reports of 4000 troops . That number is probably exaggerated, but certainly over 2000.

re: #163 RTLM

Krauthammer has a good list of actions we could take against Russia.

How to Stop Putin

Excellent article...spot-on Krauthammer...again!

The Finlandization of Georgia would give Russia control of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the only significant westbound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia. Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports. Moscow would become master of the Caspian basin.

Thanks RTLM

re: #196 FrogMarch

How bad is CNN? (I'm posting this again because it reveals a level of sickness at CNN that sinks to a new low)

"Drive-By Media, Russia and Georgia, perhaps the most idiotic, stupid question yet was asked by CNN info babe Suzanne Malveaux. Last night, The Situation Room, she was talking with the Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili. (-Rush)

CNN's MALVEAUX asks Saakashvili:

Should ask her, is their room for negotiation while you are being raped?

re: #181 quickjustice

We all can fantasize about what a military response might look like, but the reality is that a war plan is not in place to deal with this contingency. We're improvising as we go. Russia blindsided us.

We abandoned the Cold War "Soviet aggression" meme for a new, friendly "Russia joining world community" meme. That worked until Putin began destroying the institutions of the fledgling Russian democracy. We didn't respond to that except for slaps on the hand. Putin now emerges as the new Czar, and we are unprepared.

We'd better get our strategic act together in a hurry.

Yes.
And I can see parallels with the situation in regard to Germany after WWI.
Here also, in the early 1930, we had Germany being takne back, as it were, into the community of nations, even in the first years under Hitler.
Wel, you all know what happened next, no need to elaborate - i just wonder if Russia is now also going back to becoming a pariah state. All I hope that it doesn't need another WW to really teach them that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated ...

re: #200 galloping granny

I stopped watching CNN years ago because of their blatant anti-American, anti-Israel, pro-air head slant.

Oh then you would loooooove CNN INTERNATIONAL.

You get to hear questions like "Isn't the only reason snowboarding is an Olympic sport is so the US can pad it's medal count?"

Or, "We cover the American elections for you, with this and that, AND WITH SKEPTICISM."

Or, "Israel SAYS it was a Palestinian sniper that shot Shalevet Pass...." "Tell me Jim, is anyone buying it?"

re: #191 quickjustice

Here's the map of natural gas pipelines:

[Link: www.inogate.org...]

Thanks!

Looks like a spider's web on crack.

re: #189 Ben Hur

PAIN.

21,000+ posts...
30 seconds....

Don't piss Stinky off.

re: #187 realwest

I'm just fine, thanks, ...for a creepy deranged freak, that is.

re: #202 debutaunt

That cute savage guy asked for it.

7 years of posts is a lot.

And it took less than a minute.

re: #197 quickjustice

And our game plan in this situation is diplomacy, correct?

I wonder how long before the MSM and L³ start demanding Bush do something NOW and forgo endless negotiations that are just emboldening the Russian Bear. After all they were so clearly for doing something militarily are 9/11, right?

re: #173 lostlakehiker Well you're right that I'm just an ex-combat infantry soldier, so a strategist I'm not. But just think for a minute about that Russian "airpower" they had to call up pilots from over 15 years ago just to fly the crap they have over Georgia - and we can indeed secure the skies over Georgia any time we want to; if need be from the decks of US Aircraft Carriers or air bases in Mosul, Iraq - 282 miles from the Georgian capital. As to Porti? ONE US Marine corp brigade, on one US Amphibous Warship (ya know, the ones with the Apache attack helicopters, large troop carrying helo's that can land a battalion of Marines at a time; Harrier Jump Jets for close in air support of those Marines (they are wicked anti-tank weapons) and so on). Then look at the equipment the Russians are using - tanks and APC's which were front line in the mid 60's, troops sent into battle wearing SNEAKERS.
Supply line stretched SOOOO Far that it's easily broken in many places simultaneously.
Y'all can stop this armchair strategist any time you want to with any facts or background of your own.

re: #205 Kenneth

The Russians did have a small contingent of "peace keepers" there, but a large force landed at the port city of Poti (in Abkhazia) on August 9th. and unloaded APC's and reports of 4000 troops . That number is probably exaggerated, but certainly over 2000.

Question. The Russians claim that their 'peacekeeping mission" in Georgia had International authorization. Anybody know anything about that?

re: #195 abolitionist

Ok, good to know.

I've used it a lot over the past week. Well, until Putin's henchmen shut it down.

re: #209 Ben Hur

Oh then you would loooooove CNN INTERNATIONAL.

You get to hear questions like "Isn't the only reason snowboarding is an Olympic sport is so the US can pad it's medal count?"

Or, "We cover the American elections for you, with this and that, AND WITH SKEPTICISM."

Or, "Israel SAYS it was a Palestinian sniper that shot Shalevet Pass...." "Tell me Jim, is anyone buying it?"

You're not exaggerating. Until Israeli hotels started broadcasting FOX news several years ago, a stay in a hotel was absolute torture if you wanted the see the news.

re: #207 jcm

Should ask her, is their room for negotiation while you are being raped?

Really. Take the progressive test: While you are being raped, you should reach out to your rapist. Start a dialog.

re: #201 opnion

I'm not disparaging the U.S. military. I am saying that no one believed that the "new" Russia would do this, and no one was prepared for it.

If I'm wrong, then explain the sudden cancellation of the "joint military exercises" we had planned WITH RUSSIA!

re: #189 Ben Hur

PAIN.

Whom are you quoting?

I'll predict that resupply for the Russian troops will hit more than a few snags in the coming months.

re: #221 MandyManners

Whom are you quoting?

Spock channeling the Horta?

re: #205 Kenneth

The Russians did have a small contingent of "peace keepers" there, but a large force landed at the port city of Poti (in Abkhazia) on August 9th. and unloaded APC's and reports of 4000 troops . That number is probably exaggerated, but certainly over 2000.

What a difference a week makes.

re: #203 tfc3rid

I think we can also add NATO to that observation.

re: #174 Sunlight

Caroline needs more sunshine. She does jump to doom first. I read her stuff because she does have lots of info in it, but often I think of a different conclusion even from her info. She is smart though.

Unfortunately, not all of that info is accurate. She tends to elaborate the facts to suit her point. I no longer have the time to sort fact from hyperbole from fiction (can you say "service entrance") in her columns. Too bad, because she's almost already dead right on.

re: #200 galloping granny

I don't watch CNN either. By chance I heard this on Rush yesterday. My jaw hit the ground.

re: #219 FrogMarch

Really. Take the progressive test: While you are being raped, you should reach out to your rapist. Start a dialog.

Yeah. Reach out with my IDE .44.

re: #207 jcm

Should ask her, is their room for negotiation while you are being raped?

Excellent!

re: #216 opnion

IIRC, the original Russian "peacekeeping" force in South Ossetia was authorized by our old friends, the U.N.

re: #216 opnion

They were authorized by the Commonwealth of Independent States, which is a diplomatic body set up by Russia and the former USSR republics. It was CIS that approved the "peace keepers". Of course, Russia kinda dominates CIS.

re: #190 Opinionated
"Folks like you also had good explanations for the Hezbullah Israel cease fire which has been a disaster. FIND ANYTHING I EVER SAID ANYWHERE THAT APPROACHES THAT REALITY OF YOURS.
No matter what, Bush's support never goes down beneath a certain core- a core of clueless people who see things though their own rose colored glasses totally devoid of reality."
Ah yes, as if I were some newbie who gives a fuck about your blanket generalizations, ad hominen attacks and lack of facts.
FOAD.

re: #216 opnion

Question. The Russians claim that their 'peacekeeping mission" in Georgia had International authorization. Anybody know anything about that?

Sure, It is a foreign country and when Putin said to they invaded. That makes it international.

re: #166 jcm

Our trend is smarter, smaller. If your sniper accurate with high kill rate, smaller is better. Zap the target and only the target.

Big has it's uses, small and very accurate is preferable in liberating friendly territory.

Yes, small and accurate is good for doing tricks, and hitting the target is always good, and in theory if you hit the target with a small one, you don't *need* the big one, but more often than not, it pays to make a point in the matter, as well as take out the target.

We are much better off with precision munitions, but sometimes a little good old fashioned carpet bombing is really what you need.

re: #233 realwest

Really? I should Fuck off and die.

No less?

re: #219 FrogMarch

Really. Take the progressive test: While you are being raped, you should reach out to your rapist. Start a dialog.

I'll reach out to a rapist all right......
He'd get the message.

re: #192 Athos

.

re: #194 quickjustice

I'm on our side, and the side of the Georgians, in this, but I don't see anything other than improvisation at the moment.

Where are our divisions? Where is our armor? Where is our air support? Where is our Navy?

Answer: The military option isn't even on the table.

Of course it is. C-17s are the start. Humanitarian aid? We'll see. If they are fired on, that changes the whole thing. We still have wings of fighters in Europe. This situation is much better for the AF than the hand to hand head choppers. The Ruskie soldiers actually prefer to live, which means different tactics are effective. But remember the VB discussions last year... the Russians are much more experienced at large scale slaughter than the jihadis...

re: #215 realwest

Well you're right that I'm just an ex-combat infantry soldier, so a strategist I'm not. But just think for a minute about that Russian "airpower" they had to call up pilots from over 15 years ago just to fly the crap they have over Georgia - and we can indeed secure the skies over Georgia any time we want to; if need be from the decks of US Aircraft Carriers or air bases in Mosul, Iraq - 282 miles from the Georgian capital. As to Porti? ONE US Marine corp brigade, on one US Amphibous Warship (ya know, the ones with the Apache attack helicopters, large troop carrying helo's that can land a battalion of Marines at a time; Harrier Jump Jets for close in air support of those Marines (they are wicked anti-tank weapons) and so on). Then look at the equipment the Russians are using - tanks and APC's which were front line in the mid 60's, troops sent into battle wearing SNEAKERS.
Supply line stretched SOOOO Far that it's easily broken in many places simultaneously.
Y'all can stop this armchair strategist any time you want to with any facts or background of your own.

I think we should help the Russians with their supply line. We should take care of the vodka supply. A lot of it.

re: #216 opnion

Question. The Russians claim that their 'peacekeeping mission" in Georgia had International authorization. Anybody know anything about that?

At this point, assume if the Russians said it, it's crap. WSJ front page today debunks their clalims of genocide (that Georgia was killing thousands of Ossetians), debunks their claim of truce or pullout, etc. Their public spokesmen have been full of crap, their articles in Pravda apparently the worst crap out of Russia since the bad old Stalinist days.

re: #220 quickjustice

I'm not disparaging the U.S. military. I am saying that no one believed that the "new" Russia would do this, and no one was prepared for it.

If I'm wrong, then explain the sudden cancellation of the "joint military exercises" we had planned WITH RUSSIA!

I in no way think that you are disparaging our military.
I was simply agreeing with another post that we have been training our troops for years to fight Russia. Did we get blindsided here? Sure we did. It is an intelligence breakdown , not a lack of military prep.

re: #214 FurryOldGuyJeans ah the good ol days. when they were saying why didnt you STOP this action, you should have known. once action is taken, waaaah america is thuggish and evilest most imperialistic of all countries ever.

re: #197 quickjustice

It looks like it, but militarily speaking I would bet my last dollar that the U.S. Army has a plan they can dust off for how to fight the Russians in the Caucuses.

re: #240 Kosh's Shadow

I think we should help the Russians with their supply line. We should take care of the vodka supply. A lot of it.

We could set up the vodka depot to the east so they have to leave their posts and go back into Russia to get their vodka when the shakes get bad enough.

re: #205 Kenneth

LOL, stop with the Peace Keepers would ya.

Slightly OT, but there are those blind hogs who'll be able to find an acorn here.

What happens in Maryland when an American exercises his or her rights under the Bill of Rights? Well, It would appear that the State (Maryland) monitors ammunition purchases and checks them against their list of registered firearms. And if there's a discrepancy? Do they send an officer of the law to politely ask about whatever might be concerning them during, say, normal working hours?
Oh no! Instead they ninja-up and go tacticool.

Now I know that I'm not like a lot of LGFers. I don't, for example, automatically "Sieg Heil" when law enforcement is mentioned. I've lived long enough to personally observe and read about enough bone-headed, unjust, and/or criminal activities by law enforcement to reserve judgment.

Oftentimes, when some miscreant is taken down there is the tongue-clucking by the usual suspects regarding, "My goodness gracious me, there's no reason for anyone to own so many guns." My knee-jerk reaction is to check their LGF stats and think, "My goodness gracious me, there's no reason for anyone to post so many comments."

But reading the above link leads me to believe that (a) Maryland State Troopers do not trust their fellow citizens, and (b) actions like these lead to their fellow citizens not trusting Maryland State Troopers, and (c) that is a death-spiral for law enforcement in Maryland.

The point here though, is that Police came to my home without a warrant, dressed to kill, trying to intimidate me about something that is NOT illegal ! This was not an Interview it was an interrogation under duress.

Funny the last thing he said to me before leaving was "... Mr. Curtis, sorry to have HARASSED you, you have a good night."

I've made the comment before; it is counterproductive for too many citizens to notice that the law is an ass.

Ask yourself, my friends. Are your rights erased all at once in a great flood? Or are they gradually worn away like the constant drip, drip, drip of eroding stone?

re: #244 bulwrk

It looks like it, but militarily speaking I would bet my last dollar that the U.S. Army has a plan they can dust off for how to fight the Russians in the Caucuses.

The Puzzle Palace has dusted it off and updated it by now. Remember GWB's announcement of relief flights then how long it was after that the bird was on the ground. The plane was loaded and launched long before the announcement.

I think we were caught a little flat by Russia despite all the warning signs, and are getting spun up.

re: #244 bulwrk

It looks like it, but militarily speaking I would bet my last dollar that the U.S. Army has a plan they can dust off for how to fight the Russians in the Caucuses.

Of course they do... I remember in about '95 at the Air Force 50th anniversary in Las Vegas they had the former head of the USSR air force as a speaker. The cold warriors in the audience sat in amazing silence listening. These guys were willing to give it a try, but I don't think our military has thought it would necessarily last indefinitely. They have plans close by.

re: #128 lawhawk

What your referring to, in much older terms, is the ladder-of-escalation or how it became more endearingly termed 'the nuclear ladder.' Some of the moves from one rung to another - as we move-up - may be verbal and within sight, others not so - at least to the ordinary person. At present, we'd be at the bottom of this ladder nowhere near any shooting point. However, moving-up the ladder can proceed with incredibly speed.

There are some big problems at this point(to long and not the place for discussion) but one is the Euro's, who will see and be aware of most of these moves, could very well buckle in the direction of Russia - which, I'd guess, is probably the response the Russian's are hoping to induce. The 'over-reactive mean nasty Amerinazi's are starting another war!' - you know.

re: #239 Sunlight

You miss my point. A Pentagon general announced yesterday that the military option is off the table. That's not my opinion, that's the official position of the Administration.

re: #246 Dustoff-507

LOL, stop with the Peace Keepers would ya.

Sorry, spelling error, that should be "Russian Piece Keepers"

"Da, we keep piece of Georgia, piece of Ukraine, piece of Armenia..."

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

In that respect Russia has learned well the lessons of their Islamic pals.

As Woody Allen said:
The lion may lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get very much sleep.

re: #251 quickjustice

What's in the press is not always (usually?) what's going on.

Rove - you magnificent bastard! Who'd thunk that Putin and the RNC had a deal to derail Obama. Bliss.

On a serious note, this is along the lines of what we all discussed yesterday in that Russia is seeking to reassert its regional dominance. Keep in mind that Russia still remembers being invaded twice in the same century, losing more than 50 million in both wars--a loss from which they still have not (and may never) recover. They want a buffer around them and if they are suddenly surrounded by NATO countries--which might base weapons there--they are going to react. This is exactly what they are doing.

The threat of using nukes is just that-a threat. They know that any exchange, no matter how limited, will escalate. I think, at the end of the day, they will accept the former republics as part of NATO, provided no NATO troops are based there and for a boatload of economic considerations.

Anyone want to guess how long this latest “cease-fire” agreement will last?

About as long as a Palestinian cease file. Plus or minus a few nanoseconds.