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Bolton on the Georgia Crisis

Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:48:05 am PDT

John Bolton analyzes the Russian invasion of Georgia: After Russia’s invasion of Georgia, what now for the West?

As bad as the bloodying of Georgia is, the broader consequences are worse. The United States fiddled while Georgia burned, not even reaching the right rhetorical level in its public statements until three days after the Russian invasion began, and not, at least to date, matching its rhetoric with anything even approximating decisive action. This pattern is the very definition of a paper tiger. Sending Secretary of State Condeleezza Rice to Tbilisi is touching, but hardly reassuring; dispatching humanitarian assistance is nothing more than we would have done if Georgia had been hit by a natural rather than a man-made disaster.

The European Union took the lead in diplomacy, with results approaching Neville Chamberlain’s moment in the spotlight at Munich: a ceasefire that failed to mention Georgia’s territorial integrity, and that all but gave Russia permission to continue its military operations as a “peacekeeping” force anywhere in Georgia. More troubling, over the long term, was that the EU saw its task as being mediator – its favourite role in the world – between Georgia and Russia, rather than an advocate for the victim of aggression.

Even this dismal performance was enough to relegate Nato to an entirely backstage role, while Russian tanks and planes slammed into a “faraway country”, as Chamberlain once observed so thoughtfully. In New York, paralysed by the prospect of a Russian veto, the UN Security Council, that Temple of the High-Minded, was as useless as it was during the Cold War. In fairness to Russia, it at least still seems to understand how to exercise power in the Council, which some other Permanent Members often appear to have forgotten.

The West, collectively, failed in this crisis.

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97 comments

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1 jorline  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:49:25am

My kind of guy...Bolton 08

2 noshariaincanada  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:50:22am

Bolton rules!

3 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:50:54am

BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON

4 pegcity  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:51:41am

He would be a great president, but people hate hearing the whole truth, can't say i've ever heard him say anything i didn't agree with.

I wonder if hes a Lizard?

5 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:52:33am

re: #4 pegcity

He would be a great president, but people hate hearing the whole truth, can't say i've ever heard him say anything i didn't agree with.

I wonder if hes a Lizard?

In spirit he is.

6 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:52:57am

The man knows how to lay it on the line for sure! Too bad we don't have John Bolton as a Secretary of State. Rice is at best incompetent and at worse very dangerous.

7 Sizzlack  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:53:39am

Reading that made me wretch.

Because he is totally on point...as usual.

8 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:53:57am
9 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:54:06am

Bolton and his ideas are the kind of hope and change I want...

10 turn  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:55:05am

This was a very reasoned pitch for McCain, my hope is he rewarded handsomely with a secretary of state position should McCain win. Hell I hope he's rewarded with that position even if Obama wins.

11 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:55:37am
Second, the United States needs some straight talk with our friends in Europe, which ideally should have taken place long before the assault on Georgia. To be sure, American inaction gave French President Sarkozy and the EU the chance to seize the diplomatic initiative. However, Russia did not invade Georgia with diplomats or roubles, but with tanks. This is a security threat, and the proper forum for discussing security threats on the border of a Nato member – yes, Europe, this means Turkey – is Nato.

Mr. Bolton, are you deliberately trying to embarrass our allies and friends on the left by causing them to involuntarily irrigate their shoes?

12 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:55:49am

Geroge Busdh and his administration (and I voted for him twice...) have become a bunch of ineffectual boobs

13 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:56:05am

oops....George that is.

14 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:56:17am

oh man - I am leaving

15 Crusader Rabbit  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:56:42am

It would be nice if the EU were merely E-useless, but in fact it is very destructive in demanding passivity in the face of aggression.

16 turn  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:56:44am

re: #14 WindHorse

LOL

17 JHW  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:56:50am

This, from the Times of London is pretty hard-hitting also.
Georgia: Europe Wins a Gold Medal for Defeatism

18 guftafs  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:57:13am

"What now for the West?"

More of the same, more of the same ...

19 Pvt Bin Jammin  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:57:41am

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

The Russians think Cheney orchestrated the whole thing.

20 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:57:48am

re: #6 galloping granny

The man knows how to lay it on the line for sure! Too bad we don't have John Bolton as a Secretary of State. Rice is at best incompetent and at worse very dangerous.

He'd never be confirmed, but I think he should be secretary of state as well. He'd have to clean out the place, though; maybe we could just transfer most of the staff to the UN.

21 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:57:53am

Dream Team

Bolton / Hansen '08

22 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:58:16am

I can't disagree that NATO is useless. Is it any wonder then that Poland wanted a separate agreement with the US for protection?

23 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:58:37am

re: #17 JHW

This, from the Times of London is pretty hard-hitting also.
Georgia: Europe Wins a Gold Medal for Defeatism

Heh.
It is indeed - had no time to link to it, threads were rolling so fast.
Thanks - Gerald Baker is spot on.

24 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:59:34am

re: #14 WindHorse

Learn the Lizard Mantra: PIMF! (Preview is My Friend!)

Once again someone with brains and balls shows what should be done. Once again it will be ignored by those in government service.

25 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:59:43am

World to Georgia: "Sorry your being raped. We'll ask your rapist to stop with this strongly worded letter, but really, there's little else we can do."

26 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:59:52am

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

But she's a Russian expert!

I can't think of a good many Russian experts. Lenin, Kruschev, Stalin, Philby. . . . . Just because you are a "Russian expert" does not mean you are either on our side or a competent negotiator.

27 turn  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 9:59:54am

re: #19 Pvt Bin Jammin

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

The Russians think Cheney orchestrated the whole thing.

Oh my, the kos kids are going to eat this one up. The soviets sure know how to use propaganda and they know the perfect liberal target audience it will work on.

28 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:00:18am

re: #26 galloping granny

I can'tCAN think of a good many Russian experts. Lenin, Kruschev, Stalin, Philby. . . . . Just because you are a "Russian expert" does not mean you are either on our side or a competent negotiator.

PIMF

29 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:00:45am

Does the world community really want more Putin puppets?

Looks like the answer is "yes".

Bush screwed up - but so did everyone else. This is a sad state of affairs.

30 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:01:42am
31 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:01:54am

EU = Exceptionally Useless
UN = Unloaded Nether-regions

32 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:04am
The United States fiddled while Georgia burned, not even reaching the right rhetorical level in its public statements until three days after the Russian invasion began, and not, at least to date, matching its rhetoric with anything even approximating decisive action. This pattern is the very definition of a paper tiger. Sending Secretary of State Condeleezza Rice to Tbilisi is touching, but hardly reassuring; dispatching humanitarian assistance is nothing more than we would have done if Georgia had been hit by a natural rather than a man-made disaster.

Once again we were tested and failed. Our enemies are encouraged. Our friends grow ever more distrustful over this country's will and ability to provide aid to its friends.

The EU has learned nothing since 1936-39. The UN remains an empty failure. The hard left in the US has been proven once again to be on the side of anyone against the US and its core values.

At some point we will have to fight....and when we do, the cost will be far greater in national treasure than confronting evil as soon as it is apparent but before it can grow in strength and capability.

33 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:34am

re: #12 WindHorse

Geroge Busdh and his administration (and I voted for him twice...) have become a bunch of ineffectual boobs

The living embodiment of a lame duck administration.

But the point is, since 2006, this administration has been unwilling to fight for anything.....including its reputation.

34 Opinionated  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:43am

Bolton opinions- on so many World areas- are an answer to all who still support and trust Bush/Rice.

35 Pvt Bin Jammin  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:16am

re: #27 turn
Oh my, the kos kids are going to eat this one up.

Indeed. It might be worth donning a hazmat suit to go over and check them out today. Also, someone on the dead thread said they had published the name and address of the guy who published the "Obamanation" book!

36 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:36am

I like and respect Bolton as much as anyone of you lizards, however I have a problem with his editorial. While excoriating NATO, the UN and even the USA for it's failures, whats NOT mentioned is a suggestion of what should have been done

(I don't really know what should have been done either, btw)

37 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:53am

re: #26 galloping granny

I can't think of a good many Russian experts. Lenin, Kruschev, Stalin, Philby. . . . . Just because you are a "Russian expert" does not mean you are either on our side or a competent negotiator.

Langley had offices filled with 'experts' in the USSR. None predicted the collapse in 1991.

Sometimes the 'experts' are so full of their own opinions, observations, and preconceived biases that they can't see or accept contrary information.

38 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:12am

Frankly, I'm not very impressed with Bolton's piece. It's very easy, and somehow satisfying, to blame Nato for a lack of resolve... but how exactly does one force them to be more resolute?

It also easy to blame Bush for "not responding" quickly enough, or more forcefully. But it is much harder for Bolton to provide even one concrete example of what Nato or Bush should have done differently once the Russian tanks started rolling. No, sending in the USAF to bomb them is not a sensible answer. The simple fact is Georgia is close to Russia and far away from America. There is only so much the US could do, while Russia will continue to have the initiative.

As for the charge that America should have seen this coming, that the CIA was asleep at the switch... listen to Sec Def. Gates comments that the South Ossetian rebels (armed by Russia) have exchanged fire with Georgian Army every August since 2004. The Russians have also had a large military force across the border in Chechnya for while a while. The CIA was watching them, but once the Russians started moving, the first act was over.

39 iheartbolton  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:16am

I knew there was a reason I loved that guy

40 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:24am

re: #19 Pvt Bin Jammin

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

The Russians think Cheney orchestrated the whole thing.

The Russian's know damn well who orchestrated this whole thing: Putin. But they also know the western media will swallow that bit of propaganda whole.

41 Sarr  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:50am

Can someone tell me how Bush became so inept ?
Does anyone know what happened to the Conservative side of him.

42 JHW  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:08am

re: #23 yma o hyd

I guess I can't take my own advice, I had to check out El Guardian, they have several articles but this one is really something. Obama can save the world,transition the US to a green economy, and save the planet from the terrifying McCain. How any rational person can hold all these beliefs is either purposely blowing smoke or sank into mindless wishful thinking of the most dangerous kind. Bring on the rainbows and the unicorns!

Barack Obama has put forward a comprehensive foreign and security policy compatible with each of these steps: early and high-level negotiations with Iran; transitioning towards a green economy; emphasising human dignity and peoples' needs and aspirations in US aid programs; and ending the war in Iraq. John McCain proposes doing none of these things as he hurtles towards confrontation with both Russia and Iran, seemingly intent on turning this bad situation into a terrifying one.


Foreign policy advice from El Guardian

43 HoosierHoops  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:47am

re: #6 galloping granny

The man knows how to lay it on the line for sure! Too bad we don't have John Bolton as a Secretary of State. Rice is at best incompetent and at worse very dangerous.


yea..but she is the russian expert..
/

44 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:20am

re: #36 sattv4u2

whats NOT mentioned is a suggestion of what should have been done

Exactly. Frankly, Bolton just sounds like a grumpy version of Obama.

45 DeafDog  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:15am

re: #38 Kenneth

Thanks for adding some sanity to discussion.

46 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:56am

re: #36 sattv4u2

I like and respect Bolton as much as anyone of you lizards, however I have a problem with his editorial. While excoriating NATO, the UN and even the USA for it's failures, whats NOT mentioned is a suggestion of what should have been done

(I don't really know what should have been done either, btw)

As much as I agree with Bolton, he is not sitting in the Oval Office threading that needle trying to get Russia to comply and avoid a shooting war. As much as I'd love a harder push on Russia, it would have a huge side effect a lot of dead Georgians in the middle.

That must be avoided, not at all costs, but assiduously avoided. The deal for all tense and purposes is status quo ante, which is good enough for now, followed by repercussion on Russia for getting out of line.

47 rasachema  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:59am

it's frightenly refreshing how rational and sane this Bolton guy really is.

48 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:09am

Why such a tepid response from Bush?

49 vagabond trader  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:12am

So we are willing to expend billions in blood and treasure to establish democracy in Iraq, but unwilling to offer strong assistance to an ally on the brink of losing their democracy. Call me an idiot, but I don't get it, and I don't like it. Makes us appear hypocritical and also ineffectual as the EU. Putin will not stop at this little venture, guaranteed.Why should he?

50 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:20:06am

I think much more is going on on the ground and behind the scenes. Military delivering humanitarian aid and what else?

51 irongrampa  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:36am

Little late for recriminations now. What needs be done henceforth is to make the Russians pay, with some asymmetrical warfare. They can ill afford the loss of what looks like an elite force here. I say elite tongue in cheek, after viewing vids of them.

52 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:03am

re: #48 DistantThunder

Why such a tepid response from Bush?

See my #36 and Kenneths #38.

After that, you tell us if you were in Bush's shoes, what non "tepid" response would you have given?

53 Hard Right  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:43am

re: #3 jcm

BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON

BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON SNAKE SNAKE BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON BOLTON SNAKE SNAKE...

54 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:25am

re: #38 Kenneth

One does not or cannot 'force' NATO collectively to be more resolute. NATO, specifically Germany and France, refused to extend support to Georgia, IMO, because of their dependency on Russian oil and natural gas. They have seen Russia use their pipelines as cudgels against the Ukraine and the Baltic States when those countries would not toe the Russian line.

Even in a clear Article V declaration from 9/11/01, these nations have done the absolute minimum regarding Afghanistan saddling their forces with ROE's that gives them the ability to say they have sent troops but bare little of the hard effort needed against the Taliban and AQ.

I am agreement with many here in that direct US military confrontation against Russian forces in Georgia is unrealistic and unwise. Georgia is the modern day Czechoslovakia. We lack not only the military forces to effectively project force into that country, but more importantly, this country lacks the will and determination to do so given the depths of our internal divides.

What we can and should do is prepare for the next aggressive projection of Russian force and make that our final line - Baltic States, Ukraine, and Poland would be that line. Cross it, and then it has to be opposed.

But prior to that, this country needs to start looking beyond ineffective diplomatic efforts and the lack of will for the use of force and use all of the other tools that we have at our disposal - specifically economic tools. Russia wants into WTO. Sorry, Ivan, no chance. Russia wants technology. Sorry, Ivan. Whatever Russia wants in money, investments, access to financial systems, trade organizations, etc are denied until they change how they operate. Any country that facilitates Russia's efforts to obtain these also get whacked with the economic stick that we carry.

Russia has not hesitated to use economic and cyber warfare. It's time they see that its not just a one way street.

55 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:13am

Folks, unlike Bolton who knows his paycheck as a on op-ed writer relies upon him keeping up a passable impersonation of Genghis Khan, President Bush has a real job in the real world. Bush knows the two rules of the Cold War (which never ended, btw):

1. No direct confrontations with a nuclear armed enemy
2. If you must fight, do it through proxies.

Georgia is the proxy. The US is not going to go nuclear over Georgia. If the US sent in a carrier battle group, or a handful of fighter jets or even a brigade of paratroopers, things could go from bad to worse very fast. Do we want that?

Time is not on Russia's side in this. They want to wrap this up fast & leave. The longer this drags out, the more the advantage will swing to the Georgians. Bush knows that. The Georgians know that. The Russians know that. But Bolton, who offered not one piece of practice advice, seems completely ignorant of that dynamic.

56 dr.charlemagne  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:12am

Contrast Mr. Bolton's clarity, with Mr. Walid Phares piece yesterday. Moral necessity vs moral equivalence. Whereas Mr. Phares is a smart guy and a friend in the war on terror, his bit yesterday showed a marked tendency for the same post-modernism which got the West in this pickle in the first place.

[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

57 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:46am

re: #54 Athos

Good ideas. Poland & the Baltics are already in NATO & the US just mentioned NATO's commitment to mutual defense. I expect Ukraine is about to join NATO very soon. They don't feel like knuckling under to the bully.

58 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:31:35am

re: #50 DistantThunder

I think much more is going on on the ground and behind the scenes. Military delivering humanitarian aid and what else?

I'm hoping stingers & javelins.

59 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:33:45am

re: #55 Kenneth

Time is not on Russia's side in this. They want to wrap this up fast & leave. The longer this drags out, the more the advantage will swing to the Georgians. Bush knows that. The Georgians know that. The Russians know that. But Bolton, who offered not one piece of practice advice, seems completely ignorant of that dynamic.

I think your wrong about them wanting to leave. I think Putin intends to eliminate Georgia's president and install a puppet. In other words, his aim is to restore the Soviet Empire, and this is the first step.

60 Sacred Plants  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:05am

Disagree. Brussels 2008 is not Munich 1938. Durban 2001 was Munich 1938. Brussels 2008 is Geneva 1936.

But:

In fairness to Russia, it at least still seems to understand how to exercise power in the Council, which some other Permanent Members often appear to have forgotten.

Is there any formal procedure provided in the United Nations system how this veto power can be suspended?

Those actively breaking the rules cannot be entrusted with enforcing the rules.

The more a nation is plagued by corruption the easier thugs can take the lead just by calling everyone else traitors.

61 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:38am

re: #38 Kenneth

The simple fact is Georgia is close to Russia and far away from America. There is only so much the US could do, while Russia will continue to have the initiative.

That's why we strike back against their proxy in OUR HEMISPHERE.

To put it in terms the moonbats will understand:
HEY HEY, HO HO, CHAVEZ AND CASTRO GOT TO GO!

62 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:41:01am

re: #59 maddogg

Yes of course. That's not what I meant. He wants to finish the job, or as much as he can, get away with. At the minimum Putin wants to annex Arkhazia & south Ossetia. Putin does not want to leave this as a standoff with his troops in formation around the cities and along the highways of Georgia. That why I think the longer this is dragged out, the better it is for Georgia.

63 Capt Camel  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:09am

The freedom loving world must stand up and push back.
I like my father's idea of recruiting retired Marines as suicide sniper squads to nail Putin, Ahmadinejad, Kim, Chávez, ...
Chop off the head to kill a snake.
At 86 he can still shooting offhand smash a dinner plate at 1000 feet.

64 AuldTrafford  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:38am

OK, all you McCaniacs: if McCain takes Bolton as his Veep, I'll vote for him ...

65 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:46am

re: #60 Sacred Plants

BU UNSC rules, if a Security Council member is up for censure, they are not allowed to vote on the resolution. That means in theory, the UNSC could pass a resolution condemning Russia and demanding they withdraw from Georgia. Russia could still rely upon China along with other rotating members to vote against it. But even if the resolution passed, it's not like the UN would actually do anything.

66 DocDublU  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:35am

i'm a bit dismayed by bolton's quick judgement. the US seems to be building some momentum on this issue. if we can push the euro's to accept the Ukraine into Nato, then i think mr. bolton's words will be judged as hasty.

67 wiffersnapper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:50am

Bolton ftw

68 maclgf  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:04am

Definite, swift, and permanent ban from the WTO.

Definite, swift, and permanent boot from the G-8.


#54 Athos
What we can and should do is prepare for the next aggressive projection of Russian force and make that our final line - Baltic States, Ukraine, and Poland would be that line. Cross it, and then it has to be opposed.

What will prevent us from saying this the next time, and the next? We're clearly the paper tiger here. At some point, before another 9/11 or worse disaster occurs, we have to worry less about what other countries think about us, and remind everyone about how we should feel about them.

No one wants to start a war, but I would love to finish it. We all need to place nice, or the big kid on the block is going to crack skulls.

69 dr.mister  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:01:23am

This guy needs a Cabinet-level position in the next administration.

70 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:05:16am

re: #68 maclgf

You have a point that we could decide to not draw a line there or ever. We have a divided country and a lack of will internally to do what is needed. A far too large element in this country is looking to enact the sham quote from Peter Arnett in Vietnam that the village was destroyed in order to save it. There are those here who want to destroy this country in order to rebuild it in their own image, viewpoint, and values. If this isn't deluded enough, they also think that doing so and appeasing enemies will stop those enemies.

Even Britain and France in 1939 drew a line. We either draw a line while we still have friends or we will not any friends to help us in the fight.

71 Charles the Hammer  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:09:01am

re: #56 dr.charlemagne

Contrast Mr. Bolton's clarity, with Mr. Walid Phares piece yesterday. Moral necessity vs moral equivalence. Whereas Mr. Phares is a smart guy and a friend in the war on terror, his bit yesterday showed a marked tendency for the same post-modernism which got the West in this pickle in the first place.

[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

Hate to tell you this, but this is one of the view balanced, and accurate, essays on the situation. Everyone forgets that Georgia invaded first, and that there are numerous reports, even from American citizens, of the attacks on civilians by Georgian troops. Given the 16 year situation of diplomatic standoff, and the presence of Russian peacekeepers in the region (agreed to by both Russia and Georgia), the attack on South Ossetia by Georgia was never warranted.

HOWEVER: What Russia has done has gone far, far overboard. And it hasn't exactly helped itself in recent years (threats to Ukraine and Poland, killing a guy in London, a credible accusation of attempting to kill the leader of Ukraine). I don't know about Phares' comments that Russia is definitely NOT looking to increase empire, but I don't think this "rape of Georgia" line, as if Georgia didn't have blood on its hands, has to stop.

the sinner,

Charles

72 Charles the Hammer  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:12:13am

OOPS! Meant: this "rape of Georgia" line, as if Georgia didn't have blood on its hands, has to stop.

Sorry.

73 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:16:01am

re: #64 AuldTrafford

OK, all you McCaniacs: if McCain takes Bolton as his Veep, I'll vote for him ...

Rather have him as Sec of State, with the authority to clean house in Foggy Bottom. Will be better for the country in the long run.

With Duncan Hunter as Sec Def.

74 Genosaurer  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:25:18am

re: #73 Colonel Panik

Rather have him as Sec of State, with the authority to clean house in Foggy Bottom. Will be better for the country in the long run.

Seconded! Bolton for SecState, 2008!

75 AZDave  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:30:03am
The West, collectively, failed in this crisis.

Political Correctness at its finest.

76 AZDave  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:34:57am

re: #12 WindHorse

Geroge Busdh and his administration (and I voted for him twice...) have become a bunch of ineffectual boobs

Sad but true. The upside is consider what John "The Fraud" Kerry would have done.

77 Genosaurer  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:35:40am

re: #71 Charles the Hammer

Everyone forgets that Georgia invaded first, and that there are numerous reports, even from American citizens, of the attacks on civilians by Georgian troops. Given the 16 year situation of diplomatic standoff, and the presence of Russian peacekeepers in the region (agreed to by both Russia and Georgia), the attack on South Ossetia by Georgia was never warranted.

I've seen sources that indicate the Russian "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia were arming and encouraging rebels there.

From an AFP article published shortly before then war:

Georgia says the peacekeeping format is being abused by Russia, which it accuses of financing and arming the breakaway government. Tbilisi says Moscow is destabilising South Ossetia and another breakaway region, Abkhazia on the Black Sea, to maintain influence in the Caucasus and undermine Georgia's bid to join Nato. Both areas, Georgia says, are rife with smuggling of arms, drugs and people.

Note that South Ossetia is recognized as a part of Georgia by every country in the world (except Russia), so the Georgian army moving in to attack insurgents there is no different than Spain operating against Basques or (irony) Russia against Chechens.

But even if this weren't the case, the fact that Russia has been leaning on Georgia (and its other former satellites) so hard the past few years - and the immediate, disproportionate response to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia - should make it clear to everyone that Russia has been looking for an excuse to invade for a long time.

78 Sacred Plants  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:36:22am

re: #65 Kenneth

BU UNSC rules, if a Security Council member is up for censure, they are not allowed to vote on the resolution. That means in theory, the UNSC could pass a resolution condemning Russia and demanding they withdraw from Georgia. Russia could still rely upon China along with other rotating members to vote against it. But even if the resolution passed, it's not like the UN would actually do anything.

Thanks. But this is not exactly what I have in mind, what the Security Council needs to do is suspend Russia not just from decisions about Georgia, but from all decisions (including e.g. those about Persia). Only the chance that the council may be entirely steering away from Russian influence while Russia delays restoration of Georgian territorial integrity can make such a statement interesting for the Russians.

What makes you believe China would side with Russia at any price? These nations are rivals, they are in quite different situations (demographically, economically and ideologically), they should be expected to pursue their own interests each. As far as I know its attitude towards Taiwan, mainland China would not be interested in a precedent of secessionism, why would it oppose a "One Georgia Policy"? Because the Dalai Lama might support it?

79 jpkoch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:36:36am

Bad week for professional diplomats; even worse week for Beltway Insiders. The weakness Bush and the State Department exhibited this week shows just how hallow the "Global Test" theory, or the "Soft Power" crowd really is. The President, to his eternal credit, followed his instincts in the days and weeks following 9/11. For about a month after 9/11 the entire Intel/Foreign Policy establishment within the Beltway was throttled. Bush, like Truman, followed his instincts and within a few weeks laid the groundwork not only to punish and defeat Al Qaida worldwide, but to also commit to destroying those nations who harbor terrorism. Within a year, the President began to weaken his resolve. Within 4 years it was all over. He followed Kerry's and Foggy Bottom's advice and used the EU and China to deal with Iran and NKorea respectively.

Condi, that paragon of intellect and indecisiveness, was fast-tracked through the bureaucracy, and despite her poor performance as National Security Adviser was promoted to Sec of State. Like Powell, and Albright before her, Condi is just a mouthpiece for the totally incompetent bench warmers at Foggy Bottom. Her performance during the 2006 Israeli/Lebanese war embarrassing. Her performance now is dangerous.

Bush had 6 years to convince the voters the need for an expanded US military. After 2004, it became obvious that the Army was short 15 combat brigades. Even without the WOT, the sheer size of our commitments, not to mention the difficult geography that many choke points/flair points are located, necessitates the expansion of the current military system. In many ways the US is atthe exact same point Great Britain was in in 1938/39. We have a small, but professional military, and a weak incompetent State Department. We face multiple threats from multiple locations.

After saying that I need an Ale.

80 AZDave  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:39:07am

re: #19 Pvt Bin Jammin

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

The Russians think Cheney orchestrated the whole thing.

Let's hope it works! :-)

81 jpkoch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:40:55am

re: #80 AZDave

The Russians think Cheney orchestrated the whole thing.

Let's hope it works! :-)

Can't wait for the Kozkidz to blame Karl Rove.

82 AZDave  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:42:57am

re: #25 FrogMarch

World to Georgia: "Sorry your being raped. We'll ask your rapist to stop with this strongly worded letter, but really, there's little else we can have the balls to do."

Fixed.

83 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:51:26am

re: #71 Charles the Hammer

You would do well to read the time line of events & provocations from the Russians in South Ossetia, including cross boarder artillery fire into Georgia. This has been going on for years, and was ramped up considerable in the past 6 months. Georgia was responding to a situation that was increasingly unacceptable. The Russians were waiting for it, and launched a pre-planned invasion.

The fact that pro-Russian propaganda is circulating in the Western media only proves the extent of Moscow's preparations.

84 WayDownSouthInBama  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 12:11:06pm

If only we had a Congress full of Bolton's instead of a Congress full of political hacks. Mr. Bolton has several qualities that are sadly missing in all areas of our government,two of which are statesmanship and sanity.

85 JHW  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 12:21:15pm

re: #71 Charles the Hammer

Georgia invaded first if you agree that everything just happened to start last week, with no prior history at all, everything was calm and quiet before. Trouble with that claim, this has been going on for several years, tit for tat, much of it instigated by the "President" Eduard Kokoity , the Pro-Moscow Strongman who tried to stir up intervention by Russia last year, and was told to cool it by Moscow, the time wasn't ripe.

Kokoity's victory was unexpected but owed much to the backing of the Tedeyev clan, one of South Ossetia's most powerful families. He had gained key backing from Albert "Dik" Tedeyev and his brother Jambulat, a champion wrestler, who organised and financed Kokoity's election campaign.[1] The clan had previously supported Lyudvig Chibirov but broke off support for him after he attempted to move against them. After Kokoity was elected president, members of the Tedeyev clan took over responsibility for the republic's customs service and for freight traffic along the Transcaucasian highway. Revenues from the highway provide much of the South Ossetian government's revenue.

From the Wiki article. "Powerful families", "members of the clan" and that beautiful portrait from the second ,strongman article.

86 Dr.Charlemagne  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 12:34:07pm

I caution against getting lost in a Chicken and Egg ethical analysis of the Georgia problem. The Caucasus region is of critical stategic importance for both the EU (secondarily the US) and Russia. The region, as the gateway from Europe to Asia is also critical in the struggle for freedom. The rest is subterfuge and spin from both sides. Decide who you want to win and support them. I am with the Georgians.

87 Hanoch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 12:37:15pm

The Russians invade a democratic nation, and the UN effectively says "so what". But imagine if Israel had the audacity to invade Gaza or Lebanon to finally route the Hamas and/or Hizbollah terrorists. Surely, the UN would find that utterly intolerable.

88 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:08:11pm

test

89 Sacred Plants  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:09:01pm

re: #86 Dr.Charlemagne

The region, as the gateway from Europe to Asia is also critical in the struggle for freedom.

See also: Chechen Mujahideen offer to help Georgia in its standoff with Russia (via):

In fact, Georgia is in a much more advantageous position than Russia when one considers the relative strength of separatist forces in the breakaway regions of Georgia and Russia. No matter how significant the Kremlin's help to Abkhazia or South Ossetia might be, the two separatist regimes are unable to confront Georgia without the Russian armed forces' direct involvement. As for the rebels in the North Caucasus, even small financial assistance from Georgia can double their capability to fight Russian forces in the region. The ability of Caucasian insurgents to move across the North Caucasian range from Sochi (Krasnodar Krai) in the west to Makhachkala (Dagestan) in the east make them potentially very helpful to the Georgian authorities in case of an open armed conflict with Russia. "I want to say that the mountain area of the Caucasus Emirate from the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea is under Mujahideen control, and it is the zone in which the Armed Forces of the Caucasus Emirate are active," Udugov said in his appeal to Georgia.

But apparently Georgia is not getting corrupted by this:

[T]here is no real proof that the Georgian government has ever actually helped the rebels in the North Caucasus with weapons or ammunition.

This chicken did not hatch that egg!

Udugov: ''For the time being neither Tbilisi nor Washington has not appealed to us with any requests''

90 just another four-letter word  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:09:15pm

And so it begins.

Sigh.

JAFLW

/Hunker down, people, we are now officially living in interesting times.

91 just another four-letter word  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:10:14pm

re: #88 realwest

test

re-test.

JAFLW

92 whatdafuq  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:30:02pm

re: #55 Kenneth

What proxies to use though? As noted in this NRO article, Georgia's
military is pretty undisciplined and it's leaders aren't too smart:

[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

They encircle a city and shell civilians instead of seizing a mountainous
road which would've allowed them to pick off the Russians as they
advanced. Dumb and dumber.

Arming small units and using them as proxies would encourage a return
to warlordism and not be in the best interest of a future, stable Georgia.
Look what happened in Afghanistan.

93 Maui Girl  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:52:55pm

re: #61 Colonel Panik

Spot on!

94 kynna  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 1:58:19pm

As much as I respect John Bolton, I have to say (again) that there is nothing to be gained by taking out frustrations on the US. He basically sneers at the 'humanitarian aid' because it's the same thing we'd do if it were a natural disaster. Uh. Yeah. And that's why it can be defended before the absurd world media as non-provocative. And yet there are US boots on the ground.

I'm disappointed in Mr. Bolton. I won't cry like a senator about it, but I think he should have been a little more helpful toward the US (since we're the only ones who will do anything) and a lot less disparaging.

95 Topspin Lob  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 2:24:46pm

re: #64 AuldTrafford

Or at least a high level cabinet position.

96 Shane  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 3:29:42pm

This ploy by Russia is transparent. They will use this and other aggressions in the next few months to push the US into signing an agreement to remove all anti-missle units from boardering countries. Hence, we should quickly put them up. Considering the horendous condition of the Soviet Army and nuclear weapons and missles in 1990, it is reasonable to assume they have done less to maintain their arsenal now. I am guessing they would have at best a 20% success rate in launches, and only a small percentage of those would make it to target. Coupled with a missle defense, they would land may 10 - 20 nukes in our country at best. We would land as many as we wanted.

Did anyone think that shoot down of the satellite was anything but a loud clear message to these people, "We own the sky".

97 nyc redneck  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 5:00:01pm

i love john bolton. he has the courage and integrity to speak the truth abt. russia and abt. the response of the west. his words are truthful, chilling and foreboding. while europe and the u.s. issue parsed grousing words that won't be backed up.
we need some change and it's not the weak obama type.
bolton for potus.


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