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Russia Threatens to Use Nukes Against Poland

Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:59:32 am PDT

Barack Obama has vowed to cut funding of missile defense systems, and recently pledged to eliminate nuclear weapons from the world because, according to him, we just don’t need them any more:

CHICAGO - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Tuesday called for ridding the world of nuclear weapons, arguing that U.S. policy is still focused on the defunct Soviet Union instead of combatting the nuclear threat from rogue nations and terrorists.

Today, following the US-Polish agreement on missile defense, Russia is threatening to use nuclear weapons against Poland.

MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland’s agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported. ...

“Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent,” Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia’s military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons “against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them.” Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.

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810 comments

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1 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:00:08am

Two words:

HOLY SHIT!

2 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:01:28am

But more importantly the Dems have a plank on Motherhood. Next we will see the apple pie defense.

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:01:52am

Sounds like Putin is suicidal and wants to take the rest of the world with him.

4 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:15am

Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

5 zombie  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:15am

Ah, Obama, a man with foresight. Just what we need.

6 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:28am
“Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent,” Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

Yes- how dare Russia's neighbors defend themselves. You assholes really want to nuke Poland? Bring it- you'll get your ass handed to you.

7 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:32am
Russia’s military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons “against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them.”

And THAT says it all!

Obama would sign our surrender to the Soviet Union. He is a stuffed suit, a moby, a front man. And an idiot.

8 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:02:46am

Boy... Nogovitsyn sure has the "nuance" thing down....

9 DaddyO  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:07am

re: #4 Killgore Trout


Suggested new avatars for you...

[Link: img123.imageshack.us...]

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10 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:14am

re: #3 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't think he's suicidal, he's power hungry and he's better the rest of the world is too weak to resist. He might be right.

11 CIA Reject  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:14am
"“Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent,” Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying."

We should remind Comrade General Nogovitsyn that that particular street runs in two directions and our lane is always open.

12 Sizzlack  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:22am

I'd love to hear what the Messiah has to say about this.

McCain better issue a statement quickly.

13 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:03:34am

re: #3 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sounds like Putin is suicidal and wants to take the rest of the world with him.

Sounds like Putin has been holding consultation with Iran, Syria and Venezuela for over a year. He figures he has us over the proverbial oil barrel.

14 Crusader Rabbit  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:04:08am

In other news: Grendel today issued a statement warning Beowulf that by taking up a shield the puny mortal invites being hacked to death.

15 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:04:12am

re: #9 DaddyO

Thanks, I really like that first one. saved.

16 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:04:24am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Yes- how dare Russia's neighbors defend themselves. You assholes really want to nuke Poland? Bring it- you'll get your ass handed to you.

Though it might be a little bit more charred then you like.

17 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:04:33am

"Doctrine?"

Russian "Doctrine" is made up on the fly, and follows any nationalist impulse that can be best described as "blustering ass holes".

18 zombie  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:02am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

re: #5 zombie

Ah, Obama, a man with foresight. Just what we need.

I blame this development not just on Obama, but on the media's drunken love affair with him, and their relentless promotion of the "truism" that he is guaranteed to win in November.

Putin saw that a weak-kneed suicide-bot was on deck to take power, and decided to make his play for re-established world dominance.

Thank you, MSM. Thank you, Obama.

19 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:09am

re: #2 big steve

But more importantly the Dems have a plank on Motherhood. Next we will see the apple pie defense.

And, the Unicorn Protocols.

20 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:25am

Obama - "Well George (Clooney) what is your advise concerning this new development? George? George? Get out from under the table and get rid of that blanket, it looks bad for the cameras. Somebody get me Sean Penn....."

21 lifeofthemind  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:28am

Anybody want to help inspect the tires on Russia's diplomatic staff cars? Wouldn't want them disappointing the "One"

22 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:35am

OBAMA IS AN IDIOT.

and a bunch of immature spoiled self-indulgent children (progressives, hollywood ivory tower leftists, 18 year old snot nosers, & Andrew Sullivan) are desperate to see him elected.

23 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:05:45am

I was a soldier in the Cold War and I don't remember ever hearing threats like this from the USSR...ever.

Russians play chess well, but this is a risky move for them.

24 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:06:13am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

Exactly.

25 guftafs  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:06:15am

Why shouldn't they threaten? Have the Russians met with any signs of willingness to stop them so far? They'll go on so long as no-one say "No!" and mobilizes the divisions to back that "No!" up.

26 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:06:29am

Russians, like most asian cultures, have a problem with bluster. They talk big and then look to us to help them save face.

27 rawmuse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:06:42am

To my observation, it is sad that, in the present day USA, Obama's position on nukes can not only be considered viable, but viable enough to win him the nomination of a major political party. He is who he is, but, more importantly, who are we?

28 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:06:53am

So, Putin is a Rove plant?

29 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:27am

I do a lot of business with people in the former Soviet Bloc countries such as Poland, Czech Republic, and East Germany. They are not afraid of Russia....trust me on this. Their populations have westernized tremendously. You can't get the genie back in the bottle.

30 Sizzlack  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:30am

re: #28 maddogg

So, Putin is a Rove plant?

duh.

31 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:33am

re: #17 karmic_inquisitor

"Doctrine?"

Russian "Doctrine" is made up on the fly, and follows any nationalist impulse that can be best described as "blustering ass holes".

Exactamundo.

32 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:34am

One has only go to look at a map of the region to see that such a Soviet attack would indeed be curtains for Moscow. Poland is in the NATO, and Germany is right next to it. So are the BAltic States, also in the NATO.

Not a good idea, comrade General, in fact, a major blunder ...

33 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:49am

re: #28 maddogg

So, Putin is a Rove plant?

He really is a magnificent bastard.

34 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:07:50am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

Given how Hugo's been handling this, I'd fully expect nukes in Venezuela. Cuba, maybe, maybe not, but definately Venezuela. Hugo's been chanting the Kremlin line over Georgia.

35 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:02am

re: #19 MandyManners

And, the Unicorn Protocols.

Oh and I forgot....the Winnie the Pooh strategy.

36 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:15am

re: #23 Maximu§

I was a soldier in the Cold War and I don't remember ever hearing threats like this from the USSR...ever.

Russians play chess well, but this is a risky move for them.

I've never heard anything like this from them either, and I remember pretty close to all the way back to WWII. The closest I can come is their attitude over Berlin that led to the Berlin Airlift.

37 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:16am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

I don't think he's suicidal, he's power hungry and he's better the rest of the world is too weak to resist. He might be right.

I think if we were so weak we would not have signed the pact with Poland. I think we will have a much harder time explaining why we would theoretically hang Poland out to dry if they're attacked.

38 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:33am

re: #1 Honorary Yooper

Two words:

HOLY SHIT!

Three Words: Moskva Delenda Est!

39 The Jinxmedic  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:35am

It sounds like it might be time to dust off Clayton's 1980's masterpiece, "Surviving Doomsday".

Either that, or start driving a Volvo...


(reference to 1983's "The Day After", and how Dr. Oakes survived the nuclear attack on the Kansas missile fields by sheltering in his 240 wagon...)

40 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:48am

re: #35 big steve

Oh and I forgot....the Winnie the Pooh strategy.

Gotta' convince Pooh that oil really is honey.

41 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:08:55am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Yes- how dare Russia's neighbors defend themselves. You assholes really want to nuke Poland? Bring it- you'll get your ass handed to you.


Didn't Prince Obama announce he wanted to rid the world of nuclear weapons and cut a deal with Russia? God, is he out of his league...like a kid on a softball team who wants to play for the NY Yankee's.

42 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:23am

re: #2 big steve

But more importantly the Dems have a plank on Motherhood. Next we will see the apple pie defense.

They're against it?

43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:39am

Well, aint this a jolly old kick in the cajones.

44 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:54am

re: #29 big steve

I do a lot of business with people in the former Soviet Bloc countries such as Poland, Czech Republic, and East Germany. They are not afraid of Russia....trust me on this. Their populations have westernized tremendously. You can't get the genie back in the bottle.

And the populations of those countries were ONLY part of the USSR at the point of a gun to start with. Poland has been forced into the Russian Empire a number of times over the years, going all the way back into the Middle Ages.

45 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:09:56am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

Which is why I've been saying since this whole mess started that we need to take down the Castro regime and tHuggo ASAP.

46 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:22am
47 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:24am

re: #42 The Other Les

But more importantly the Dems have a plank on Motherhood. Next we will see the apple pie defense.

They're against it?

They are against drilling for more apples.

48 sevoguy  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:26am

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

49 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:10:51am

re: #39 The Jinxmedic

It sounds like it might be time to dust off Clayton's 1980's masterpiece, "Surviving Doomsday".

Either that, or start driving a Volvo...


(reference to 1983's "The Day After", and how Dr. Oakes survived the nuclear attack on the Kansas missile fields by sheltering in his 240 wagon...)

240's are damn near indestructible.

50 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:17am

Mr. Obama, attempting to eliminate nuclear weapons is profoundly pessimistic because it assumes that humanity will never grow up and become responsible.

Nuclear weapons are built into the structure of the universe, in the periodic table and the laws of physics. They're put there as a test in my opinion.

It is our job to take the test and pass it, not to remain at some infantile stage.

And meanwhile, the most moral people are supposed to have the biggest weapons, because upon the instant that they do not, the evil prey upon the innocent.

But you, Mr. Obama, have not thought this through and you have a very defective view of how the world really operates at this stage of human history.

And so, I'm not going to vote for you.

51 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:20am

Obama would fit the definition of "Clear & Present Danger" to the Republic.
He will either abandon his former policy for present convenience, or more likely blame it all on the evil Bush/Cheney/ McCain cabal.
He ran Susan Rice out to Demogauge McCains strong response to the invasion of Georgia , even suggesting that McCain may have made the situation worse.
Obama mirrors the childish reasoning & rhetoric that is a hallmark for the extreme left

52 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:25am

re: #11 CIA Reject

We should remind Comrade General Nogovitsyn that that particular street runs in two directions and our lane is always open.

It's time to repudiate all arms control treaties. They were a bad idea anyway.

53 DaddyO  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:29am
54 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:37am

Its evident now that batshit crazy was always just barely beneath the surface.

55 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:42am

I find it rather strange the SciFi Channel would choose now to show the anti-nuclear/anti-war/Anti-Reagan screed The Day After. Coincidence? I doubt it.

56 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:47am

re: #48 sevoguy

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

However many went down, I'll bet half were malfunctions.

57 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:11:52am

re: #41 Maximu§

Didn't Prince Obama announce he wanted to rid the world of nuclear weapons and cut a deal with Russia? God, is he out of his league...like a kid on a softball team who wants to play for the NY Yankee's.

If the kid can pitch the Spankees would probably take him right about now.

58 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:12:05am

re: #48 sevoguy

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

I heard 4. But either way, it is enough to leave the Russian high command shaking heads and wringing hands trying to figure out how they managed to do it. Stupefied according to the report I read.

59 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:12:11am

re: #32 yma o hyd
Um, not to mention our "Boomers" - our nuclear powered submarines, each of which carries enough nuclear warheads to independently hit, iirc, over 120 targets. Some have had partial converstion to non-nuke missiles. Lots haven't. And many of those that haven't are sitting quiety, targets already entered into the computers, awaiting word from the CiC.
Will Russia use nukes on Poland? I'm not a prophet or seer, but unless Putin is totally off his rocker: NO.

60 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:12:27am

re: #48 sevoguy

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

Dived that by 2 and you'll usually get close to the real number.

61 lifeofthemind  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:12:29am

Every Russian Ship, including submarines, including SSBNs should know that there is an American hunter killer sitting just abaft her stern and taking photos of the Russian's screws. They can be so screwed so fast.

62 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:12:30am

The Russian insistance on escalation is just going to hasten the need to address Iran. The idea of Iran getting nukes and running the Russian playbook with Russian assistance and forming a Nukes and Oil cartel is now a very real potential outcome if we dither. Venezuela will join that club, and you will have three little thugs running the globe's hydrocarbon supply.

63 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:00am

re: #51 opnion

Obama would fit the definition of "Clear & Present Danger" to the Republic.
He will either abandon his former policy for present convenience, or more likely blame it all on the evil Bush/Cheney/ McCain cabal.
He ran Susan Rice out to Demogauge McCains strong response to the invasion of Georgia , even suggesting that McCain may have made the situation worse.
Obama mirrors the childish reasoning & rhetoric that is a hallmark for the extreme left

And then he ran some Virginian out to crow about how Putin had stopped because HRH Obama had suggested that he stop.

64 WindHorse  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:04am

what did Bush say? "I looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul."

wow.

65 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:07am

re: #54 RTLM

Its evident now that batshit crazy was always just barely beneath the surface.

That's part of the charming Russian personality, but Putin seems intent on opening a whole new chapter. Heck, look at the moonbats here we've been living with all along, and who knew?

66 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:18am

Obama makes Carter seem merely simpleminded.

67 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:13:46am

re: #28 maddogg

So, Putin is a Rove plant?

No he is Rove. Have you ever seen them together?

68 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:00am

re: #18 zombie

I blame this development not just on Obama, but on the media's drunken love affair with him, and their relentless promotion of the "truism" that he is guaranteed to win in November.

Putin saw that a weak-kneed suicide-bot was on deck to take power, and decided to make his play for re-established world dominance.

Thank you, MSM. Thank you, Obama.

It is a shame, isn't it, that many parts of the world watch our candidates and our elections with a much more critical eye than many of our own citizens.

69 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:04am

re: #62 karmic_inquisitor

The Russian insistance on escalation is just going to hasten the need to address Iran. The idea of Iran getting nukes and running the Russian playbook with Russian assistance and forming a Nukes and Oil cartel is now a very real potential outcome if we dither. Venezuela will join that club, and you will have three little thugs running the globe's hydrocarbon supply.

Iran got one big address this morning. The Iranian President went to Turkey to sign a multi-billion $ oil deal. Supposed to be announced this morning. Instead they announced that Turkey had canceled the deal.

70 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:04am

re: #39 The Jinxmedic

It sounds like it might be time to dust off Clayton's 1980's masterpiece, "Surviving Doomsday".

Either that, or start driving a Volvo...


(reference to 1983's "The Day After", and how Dr. Oakes survived the nuclear attack on the Kansas missile fields by sheltering in his 240 wagon...)

To make a confession, I have been looking at digging a wine cellar and am now looking at what modifications I have to make to have it double as a blast and fallout shelter.

71 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:06am

Historically when extreme belligerent comments have come from Russian/Soviet leadership, it has been a sign of a power struggle within. When their leadership is aligned they control the message. Some have pointed out the surprise of a Russian leader being so intense. Krushchev had periods like this and later it was found they always corresponded to internal power shifts.

72 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:26am

Waiting for the kraptastic Kosling konspriracy machine to begin hyperventilating in earnest.

73 bulwrk  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:41am

As bad as that threat is the fact is the Poles have always known that if a tactical nuclear exchange was going to take place in Europe it was the most likely candidate. The only difference is the roles are reversed it was fear of a U.S. preemptive strike at Warsaw Pact forces marshaling in Poland for an invasion of Western Europe.

74 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:42am

Thugs talk like thugs.
Should we be surprised? No.
Should we be frightened? No again.

75 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:44am

re: #44 galloping granny

And the populations of those countries were ONLY part of the USSR at the point of a gun to start with. Poland has been forced into the Russian Empire a number of times over the years, going all the way back into the Middle Ages.

There is no way that the Poles will now cower or knuckle unde - no way!
I remember well how deliriously happy they were when they got the full EU membership, lots and lots of their younger people have been travelling and working their socks off all voer Europe.
No way are they going to give that up, and I'm sure they'd take extreme measures to any of their politicians who'd suggest such a thing!

76 noshariaincanada  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:46am

LLLefties love this kind of subtle Russian diplomacy.

77 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:49am

What this really means is that the agreement with Poland is causing Putin to soil himself. In his fear and embarrassment he is overreacting which is a very poor trait for a world leader. It makes him quite dangerous, like a cornered rodent.

78 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:51am

re: #62 karmic_inquisitor

Develop solar energy.

79 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:14:57am

re: #18 zombie

That's a damned good point. People who aren't American don't really understand the American electorate. They often assume we listen to our elites in the same way Europeans do---but we don't!

From all the elites and the media, a foreigner would think McCain didn't have a chance, and couldn't buy one for a million dollars. Why not strike and show Obamajebus who's boss before he even gets in office? It would never cross his mind that this may help McCain. Most polls released right now were actually taken before the Russian invasion and the candidates' responses.

80 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:02am

re: #58 galloping granny
You're joking, right? They are stupefied that they lost some of those quaint old Migs?!

81 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:05am

re: #23 Maximu§

I was a soldier in the Cold War and I don't remember ever hearing threats like this from the USSR...ever.

Russians play chess well, but this is a risky move for them.

This is going to end with Comrade Putin being vaporized, buried alive in a bunker, or going for a dance at the end of a rope.

82 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:06am

re: #18 zombie

Putin saw that a weak-kneed suicide-bot was on deck to take power, and decided to make his play for re-established world dominance.

Shouldn't he have waited, like until next August, if that's their month for scheduled trouble?

83 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:08am

Bring it, motherfuckers.

84 Opinionated  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:09am

Russia is openly threatening a nuclear attack in Europe.

If McCain doesn't start showing a substantial lead in the polls in the coming days, something is seriously wrong with the American people.

85 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:09am

re: #69 galloping granny

Iran got one big address this morning. The Iranian President went to Turkey to sign a multi-billion $ oil deal. Supposed to be announced this morning. Instead they announced that Turkey had canceled the deal.


Nice to see some countries have some balls.

86 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:24am

re: #64 WindHorse

what did Bush say? "I looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul."

wow.

McCain knew better. "I look into Putin's eyes and I see the letter K. . G . . B!" But then he has firsthand experience of Marxist theory in action.

87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:24am

re: #70 karmic_inquisitor

To make a confession, I have been looking at digging a wine cellar and am now looking at what modifications I have to make to have it double as a blast and fallout shelter.

I'm stockpiling on guns, ammo, and a map to everyone I know who has a fallout shelter.

88 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:15:27am

re: #48 sevoguy

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

According to WIKI, they have some SU-25 ground attack aircraft and some HIND helicopters. Those are the only combat aircraft in their inventory. The rest are all transport aircraft and trainers. No interceptors.
Suprised, I'd have figured they'd at least have a few MiG 21's, damn near everybody had those things.

From the wiki article it looks like the israelis may have upgraded the fire control systems on their SU-25 "Frogfoots".

89 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:10am

re: #71 big steve

Historically when extreme belligerent comments have come from Russian/Soviet leadership, it has been a sign of a power struggle within. When their leadership is aligned they control the message. Some have pointed out the surprise of a Russian leader being so intense. Krushchev had periods like this and later it was found they always corresponded to internal power shifts.

Judging from BP's troubles, the war right now is between the oligarchs and the government.

90 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:12am

This is all going on, and a judge recently ruled that the Navy is not allowed to use low frequency sonar because of the whales, and if I am not mistaken, they have stopped, or will soon.

F*ck the left.

91 DaddyO  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:21am

re: #87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm stockpiling on guns, ammo, and a map to everyone I know who has a fallout shelter.

I got a whole lotta beer and some chips

92 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:28am

re: #77 maddogg

What this really means is that the agreement with Poland is causing Putin to soil himself. In his fear and embarrassment he is overreacting which is a very poor trait for a world leader. It makes him quite dangerous, like a cornered rodent.

I agree- I think the pact with Poland struck a nerve and now the bear is lashing out.

93 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:40am

re: #46 taxfreekiller

Clear your minds.

Who is it that most enabled this evil?

Is there a political party that has backed all the evil in the world?

Is there a bunch of co-commies about to try to elect a full blown
commie nut case to be President and Commander in Chief?

Is there a political party that has a traitor who worked with commies prior to help commies to win a war? Kerry, Vietnam.

Russia does not have what it takes to win out over us, there only chance is the U.S. Democratic Party and their co-commie msm.

Look within and see.

If you do not, and do not vote them out, great evil will come to all.

You left out Teddy Kennedy's direct correspondance with the Kremlin aimed at undermining President Ronald Reagan.

94 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:51am

re: #59 realwest

Russia is just BSing buddy. They know once them birds fly, it's all over for them.

95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:52am

re: #82 itellu3times

Shouldn't he have waited, like until next August, if that's their month for scheduled trouble?

He made the mistake of listening to the MSM who told him Obama had it in the bag.

96 Sir Napsalot  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:55am

The Russians don't even try to use 'smart munitions' to eliminate/minimize collaterol damage, they just use the WWII old tactics with the bullying tanks and guns blazing.

Still can't believe there are no PEACE rallies around the world this weekend, with millions upon millions of demonstrators.

"OCCUPIERS"
"No Blood for OIL"
"Russia Lied, People Died"
...

97 Zippy_Slug  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:16:59am

If for some reason the Soviets.. er.. I mean Russia try to launch, and the missile defense works.. Would we be justified in a nuclear response?

98 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:09am

re: #69 galloping granny
WOW - good on Turkey! Do you by any chance have any links to that?

99 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:16am

re: #75 yma o hyd

There is no way that the Poles will now cower or knuckle unde - no way!
I remember well how deliriously happy they were when they got the full EU membership, lots and lots of their younger people have been travelling and working their socks off all voer Europe.
No way are they going to give that up, and I'm sure they'd take extreme measures to any of their politicians who'd suggest such a thing!

I didn't mean that they would. I meant that they know first hand the dangers of the Russian Bear.

100 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:22am

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He made the mistake of listening to the MSM who told him Obama had it in the bag.

Must have been the Obama NeoPresidential Seal.

101 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:29am

re: #58 galloping granny

I heard 4. But either way, it is enough to leave the Russian high command shaking heads and wringing hands trying to figure out how they managed to do it. Stupefied according to the report I read.


I have to remember where I read it, but one online article really put the russian air force down, on their lack of skills over georgia. Talked about russia wanting to take out the oil pipeline, but the russian pilots kept missing the targets because the pilots were not experienced enought to preform low level bombing runs, and the aircraft systems are not even close to ours in sophistication of hitting small targets from great altitudes. they also got on the russian "peace keepers" as basically a drunken mob in tanks and personell carriers..gotta remember where the link is...

102 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:38am

We all must remind ourselves that Obama is vastly more intelligent than any and all of us, and that he sees things in a completely new way which allows him to see solutions that no one before him could even contemplate.

/

103 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:45am

re: #59 realwest

Um, not to mention our "Boomers" - our nuclear powered submarines, each of which carries enough nuclear warheads to independently hit, iirc, over 120 targets. Some have had partial converstion to non-nuke missiles. Lots haven't. And many of those that haven't are sitting quiety, targets already entered into the computers, awaiting word from the CiC.
Will Russia use nukes on Poland? I'm not a prophet or seer, but unless Putin is totally off his rocker: NO.

The 3 Boomers that were converted to conventional carry 149 cruise missiles each. A classified number of these are non-conventional. Extraordinarily effective weapon. It can take on a fleet or a land war 1000 miles away.

104 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:48am
105 CIA Reject  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:53am

re: #52 The Other Les

It's time to repudiate all arms control treaties. They were a bad idea anyway.

Even with our current force structure all it would take would be an order from the NCA and ALL of Comrade Putin's major industrial centers would become potential targets of nuclear weapons systems that actually work.

He should be told that the NCA is considering such an action.

106 seekeroftruth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:17:54am

There was a article just a few days ago about Russia, Cuba, and nukes.
Could be disinformation and bluster.
[Link: www.voanews.com...]

Former Cuban President Fidel Castro says his brother was right to adopt a "dignified silence" about a newspaper report that Russia may soon station nuclear-capable bombers on the island.

In comments posted on a government Web site Wednesday, the former president said Cuba does not owe the United States any explanations, excuses or calls for forgiveness over the issue.

On Monday, the Russian newspaper "Izvestia" quoted a source as saying Moscow is considering stationing military aircraft in Cuba in response to U.S. plans to deploy a missile-defense system in eastern Europe.

...The RIA-Novosti news agency in Russia Thursday quotes a Russian defense ministry spokesman, Ilshat Baichurin, as saying Moscow regards reports from anonymous sources as disinformation.

107 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:18:02am

re: #97 Zippy_Slug

Morally no IMHO

108 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:18:23am

re: #34 Honorary Yooper

This also makes me wonder about Iran too. Russia might give them nukes instead of just helping them develop their own.

109 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:18:37am

re: #41 Maximu§

Didn't Prince Obama announce he wanted to rid the world of nuclear weapons and cut a deal with Russia? God, is he out of his league...like a kid on a softball team who wants to play for the NY Yankee's.

More like a kid with a toy plastic ball and a plastic bat playing in the back yard.

110 CIA Reject  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:18:45am

re: #56 itellu3times

However many went down, I'll bet half were malfunctions.

And the other half were pilot errors.

111 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:04am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

This also makes me wonder about Iran too. Russia might give them nukes instead of just helping them develop their own.

Ha, they may have already sold some to the Sauds.

112 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:33am

re: #41 Maximu§

Didn't Prince Obama announce he wanted to rid the world of nuclear weapons and cut a deal with Russia? God, is he out of his league...like a kid on a softball team who wants to play for the NY Yankee's.

A good recap

113 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:37am

re: #90 Tarkus289

This is all going on, and a judge recently ruled that the Navy is not allowed to use low frequency sonar because of the whales, and if I am not mistaken, they have stopped, or will soon.

F*ck the left.

I read about this...the jusge should be stripped of her robe and kicked naked to the curb.

114 Zippy_Slug  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:19:58am

re: #107 Ojoe

What would be an appropriate response then? Negotiations ala Obama Hussein?

115 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:20:02am

re: #92 Sharmuta

I agree- I think the pact with Poland struck a nerve and now the bear is lashing out.

Perhaps it is sometimes necessary to ensure a nerve is struck to force the bear's reaction.

116 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:20:24am

re: #59 realwest

Um, not to mention our "Boomers" - our nuclear powered submarines, each of which carries enough nuclear warheads to independently hit, iirc, over 120 targets. Some have had partial converstion to non-nuke missiles. Lots haven't. And many of those that haven't are sitting quiety, targets already entered into the computers, awaiting word from the CiC.
Will Russia use nukes on Poland? I'm not a prophet or seer, but unless Putin is totally off his rocker: NO.

Yes - but!
There are these generals - I had another look at the face of Comrade Nogovitsyn - he looks as if he's not got over the defeat in Afghanistan. He's been brought up on the glory tales of WWII, and wants that back - people like him are off their rockers, and Putin will have a major task to keep them in hand, I think.
They are the true danger men.

117 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:20:25am

RE Poland, bear in mind that the ONLY reason that they fell to the Russians and were forced into the Soviet Union in the first place is because the Russian Army halted it's advance across the river from Warsaw while the Nazis spent two months or so completely leveling Warsaw and obliterating the Home Army.

On August 1, 1944, with the Russian forces on the right bank of the Vistula, the Home Army rose in Warsaw; the Warsaw Rising. Heroic street-fighting involving the whole population, using the sewers as lines of communication and escape, under heavy bombardment, lasted for 63 days. The city was completely destroyed. Not only did the Russians cease to advance but they also refused to allow Allied planes to land on Russian airfields after dropping supplies. After surrendering many civilians and soldiers were executed or sent to concentration camps to be exterminated and Warsaw was razed to the ground. [Link: www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk...]

118 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:20:30am

re: #104 jcm

O-my... How I remember that! LOL And yes even my neightbor had a bomb shelter.

119 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:13am

I can visualize the breathless panic of the left, who I'm quite sure assume that Bush will stomp the red button as his last act in office.

120 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:18am

re: #112 Noam Sayin'

A good recap


Thank You and here are Obama's EXACT words:

I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems...

...I will not weaponize space...

...I will slow development of future combat systems...

...and I will institute an independent "Defense Priorities Board" to ensure the quadrennial defense review is not used to justify unnecessary spending...

...I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons...

...and to seek that goal, I will not develop nuclear weapons...

...I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material...

...and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert...

...and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals...

121 Iron Fist  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:20am

So is it OK, like, to call for nuking Russia first? One good strategic first strike would ruin their whole day. Putin ought to think in those terms, but he thinks that the restriant on the part of the US in Afghanistan means weakness. Coupled with the possibility of an Obama Presidency with a Democratic Congress, he might be right. A lot is riding on this election.

122 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:21am

re: #109 The Other Les

Cringing pacifism will get you into big wars with ruthless assholes & Obama is a complete idiot.

123 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:29am

re: #115 reine.de.tout

Perhaps it is sometimes necessary to ensure a nerve is struck to force the bear's reaction.

The bully on the block is pissed someone had the nerve to stand up to them.

124 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:31am

re: #109 The Other Les

More like a kid with a toy plastic ball and a plastic bat playing in the back yard.

The freshman who wants to run the university.

125 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:33am

For those that think Obama entered into the Kremlin's calculus on this, you can just about forget it. Putin has been planning this for some time. They don't give a damn about who is the US president and if he did he would surely want Obama and therefore doing this now plays against this strategy. I suggest we all use our intellectual powers to analyze what is happening in Georgia sans any impact on US presidential candidates.

126 turn  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:38am

Defcon 5,4,3 ...

I don't think this will develop into a nuke exchange but I sure as hell wouldn't suggest getting rid of our nukes either. Barry must really be looking pretty silly even to the Europeans right now.

127 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:51am

re: #46 taxfreekiller

Clear your minds.

Who is it that most enabled this evil?

Is there a political party that has backed all the evil in the world?

Is there a bunch of co-commies about to try to elect a full blown
commie nut case to be President and Commander in Chief?

Is there a political party that has a traitor who worked with commies prior to help commies to win a war? Kerry, Vietnam.

Russia does not have what it takes to win out over us, there only chance is the U.S. Democratic Party and their co-commie msm.

Look within and see.

If you do not, and do not vote them out, great evil will come to all.

If you look at very problem that we must deal with on the political level it is very apparent that the one political party is THE major obstacle to a rational solution to those problems.

They have to go.

Let Joe Liberman, et al, start a new party.

128 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:56am

re: #45 Colonel Panik


re: #4 Killgore Trout
Get ready for nukes to appear in Cuba again. Possibly in Venezuela too.

Which is why I've been saying since this whole mess started that we need to take down the Castro regime and tHuggo ASAP.

At this point, any Tu-95 flight down the Eastern Seaboard, or Russian Navy ships parked in the Caribbean would be a crossing of the 'Red Line'. The Russian Bear bomber should be shot down. The Russian Navy is unlikely to be able to mount that mission. Its in very bad shape.

129 CynicalConservative  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:56am

re: #90 Tarkus289

This is all going on, and a judge recently ruled that the Navy is not allowed to use low frequency sonar because of the whales, and if I am not mistaken, they have stopped, or will soon.

F*ck the left.

Wonder if they'll actually pay attention to this ruling if it goes hot...

130 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:21:59am

re: #69 galloping granny

Iran got one big address this morning. The Iranian President went to Turkey to sign a multi-billion $ oil deal. Supposed to be announced this morning. Instead they announced that Turkey had canceled the deal.

Whoa!
Blimey!

Any reason given?

131 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:06am

Rush, speaking of this right now.

132 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:09am

re: #78 Ojoe Hey Ojoe!
I'm all in favor of developing/using (e.g., nuke power plants) alternative forms of energy, but don't see anything replacing oil in the near future - a hell of a lot of Americans NEED oil - including the elites in big cities like NYC who assume the groceries just turn up in the supermarket like magic!
We need to drill NOW. And, to the extent it is feasable, go for the oil shale. NOW.

133 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:12am

re: #116 yma o hyd


How he forgets if it wasn't for us. Germany would have taken them.

134 rorschach  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:16am

My only hope is that, when the fur starts to fly, some of it finds its way to Tehran, Damascus, Islamabad, and oh what the heck, Riyadh.

O.K., it's not my only hope, but a guy can daydream, can't he?

135 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:20am
136 tfc3rid  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:23am

Has Putin converted?

137 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:25am

We should remind the Russian nuclear missile boats that we know where they are. And send a message that under the circumstances, they had better not get into missile firing position, or they will scrap metal.
And, indicate that, while the US does not intend to use nuclear weapons first, if Russia uses them against an ally, the US will not hesitate.

And, just to be sure, ship Israel the weapons they want to use against Iran.

138 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:29am

re: #69 galloping granny

Iran got one big address this morning. The Iranian President went to Turkey to sign a multi-billion $ oil deal. Supposed to be announced this morning. Instead they announced that Turkey had canceled the deal.

Turkey can see the writing on the wall. They were not, are not, and never will be friends with Russia. And having Iran ally with Russia is just too much for them.

139 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:47am

re: #106 seekeroftruth

There was a article just a few days ago about Russia, Cuba, and nukes.
Could be disinformation and bluster.
[Link: www.voanews.com...]

Bluster. We have control of a great big chunk of the island of Cuba - and all of the surrounding waters.

140 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:22:59am

Did Russia expect Obama to act like a wimp - or did they figure once McCain was more impressive they had to fill in the gap with their own rhetoric about how this was planned by Bush and Cheney to elect McCain?

141 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:09am

re: #47 itellu3times

They are against drilling for more apples.

When the Honorable Mr. Firefly was against something, it was funny.

142 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:10am

re: #114 Zippy_Slug

I suppose at that point big conventional attacks on their leadership positions & hopefully the regular people will drink vodka and there will be no problem for 30 or more years.

But this is all speculation

143 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:14am

re: #132 realwest

10,000 gallons per second in the U.S. consumed.

144 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:17am

re: #121 Iron Fist

I honestly think this plays into our hands. With the world going crazy, is it really a time we want to entrust leadership of our country in the hands of a man who has zero experience?

145 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:19am

Grrrrrr.

If people in my office don't start making a pot of coffee when they empty one....

I'LL GO NUCLEAR!

///

*pet peeve rant off*

146 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:43am
147 tfc3rid  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:23:56am

The Dems will say that it's Bush's fault for pushing the shield...

They will get the media... they will be lauded for it... The convention will be all about it...

148 David Simon  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:24:07am

re: #62 karmic_inquisitor

The Russian insistance on escalation is just going to hasten the need to address Iran.

So is this:

Iraqi Shiite assassination teams are being trained in at least four locations in Iran by Tehran's elite Quds force and Lebanese Hezbollah and are planning to return to Iraq in the next few months to kill specific Iraqi officials as well as U.S. and Iraqi troops, according to intelligence gleaned from captured militia fighters and other sources in Iraq.

[Link: ap.google.com...]

149 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:24:25am

re: #141 The Other Les

When the Honorable Mr. Firefly was against something, it was funny.

It was Prof. Wagstaff who sang, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

150 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:24:28am

The Russians assumed that Poland would be the battle ground for theatre nukes. Reagan then deployed the Pershing II capable of pinpointing targets in Belarus and the Ukraine with pin point accuracy. A peace treaty was the result. Has Obama ever read a real history book as oppsed to Chomsky and the delusionists?

151 HoosierHoops  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:24:38am

re: #61 lifeofthemind

Every Russian Ship, including submarines, including SSBNs should know that there is an American hunter killer sitting just abaft her stern and taking photos of the Russian's screws. They can be so screwed so fast.


There is a story from the 80's that one time we wanted to mess with the USSR Navy. So every 688 class sub at the same moment sent a sonic ping to the ships they were trailing. Freaked them out i hear.

152 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:24:57am

re: #125 big steve

For those that think Obama entered into the Kremlin's calculus on this, you can just about forget it. Putin has been planning this for some time. They don't give a damn about who is the US president and if he did he would surely want Obama and therefore doing this now plays against this strategy. I suggest we all use our intellectual powers to analyze what is happening in Georgia sans any impact on US presidential candidates.

I'm not so sure about that. People outside the US really do not understand our political system - or Americans in general. Most of the world really thinks that HRH Obama has already won and do not understand that when push comes to shove, America always refuses to crown a king.

153 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:25:03am

The "O" is a BIG ZERO on military experience.

154 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:25:11am

re: #94 Dustoff-507
Hey there my friend - how dare you take such a non-defeatist attitude!?!

155 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:25:52am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

This also makes me wonder about Iran too. Russia might give them nukes instead of just helping them develop their own.

The world seems to be realigning and moving very fast these past couple of weeks. Who knows what will happen next. I've seen things these past two weeks I never expected to see in my lifetime.

156 lurking faith  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:25:58am
He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia’s military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons “against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them.” Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax. [emphasis mine]

First, a more obvious implication that Russia still considers the USA its mortal enemy could not have been given. (Peace dividend, my a**.)

And second, if the statement is quoted accurately, they are claiming the right to nuke anybody who makes any kind of alliance with us, or with any other country that has nukes. Wow.

That's a whole lotta nukin'.

/I'll nuke who I wanna

157 Ceemack  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:02am

re: #58 galloping granny

I heard 4. But either way, it is enough to leave the Russian high command shaking heads and wringing hands trying to figure out how they managed to do it. Stupefied according to the report I read.


If the Russians actually depart Georgia, we'll have to look at how they can be defended in the future. U.S. or NATO combat troops are unlikely--geographically, they'd be almost impossible to support adequately against a determined Russian attack.

Nor would we want to supply Georgia with heavy ground and air systems, like tanks and fighters. These provide an offensive as well as a defensive capability, and could provoke another response from Russia. Georgia also can't afford to support them.

But anti-aircraft missiles--mobile medium-altitude systems and man-portable low-altitude systems--and anti-tank missiles are purely defensive, and could be provided to Georgia with a lower profile. We could put up the money, and the equipment could be bought on the open market. The French Milan is a good anti-tank system, for example--I think the U.S. has bought some.

Georgia doesn't need to be able to stop the Russians in their tracks...they just need the capability to wage a semi-guerilla defensive campaign that makes it very costly for the Russians to try this again. A good supply of modern defensive weapons, plenty of training and a flexible command-and-control system could do that without provoking Russia unnecessarily.

158 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:04am

re: #132 realwest

Yeah. more oil now. And nuke plants, ok. But eventually it will have to be mostly solar & that's a good thing, the sun is way more distributed than oil & look how much of the squabbling in the world is tied to oil.

So, world peace thru solar energy, it's one of the paths to that.

159 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:21am

Obama would let the tanks roll, just like he let Hillary roll right over him.

160 Elvis  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:22am

Hmm, let's see-
America: Overly extended "war on Terror" financing;
The Fed: Repeatedly lowers interest rates to finance war results in weakening of dollar and consumer prices way up;
Russia: Taking advantage -- entirely predictable;
NATO: Strongly worded condemnations -- Priceless.
[sarc /off]

161 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:22am

re: #102 karmic_inquisitor

We all must remind ourselves that Obama is vastly more intelligent than any and all of us, and that he sees things in a completely new way which allows him to see solutions that no one before him could even contemplate.

/

To say nothing of knock-out sexy.

/barftastic warning

162 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:22am

re: #149 itellu3times

It was Prof. Wagstaff who sang, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

I had a former boss who would walk into a meeting and announce; "should we just begin arguing now or should we pick a topic first."

163 HoosierHoops  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:34am

re: #90 Tarkus289

This is all going on, and a judge recently ruled that the Navy is not allowed to use low frequency sonar because of the whales, and if I am not mistaken, they have stopped, or will soon.

F*ck the left.

low freq sonar is rarely used anyway except for training..
The last thing you ever want to do is tell the enemy exactly were you are..

164 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:26:59am

re: #97 Zippy_Slug
Uh, forget the missile defense, if Russia launches ICBM's loaded with nuke weapons, we launch too.
End of story - maybe end of the World. But we'd have to launch. Period.

165 theheat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:06am

If Russia was to just arbitrarily up-and-bomb Poland, do you think anyone would notice? Would that be enough, or would it be the aloof observation other countries have practiced since the invasion of Georgia? You have to wonder, at what point does the rest of the world get off their dead asses and give a damn?

Clearly, Russia has the inclination and resources, not to mention the history, of pretty much doing as if pleases. Right now, it pleases Russia to invade and conquer Georgia. Next, it may please Russia to turn Poland into a black smear. Following that "unfortunate little incident", it may please Russia to sit off the USA coastline, fortifying our enemies with nuclear weapons.

At what point does this become unacceptable, and require a more emphatic response than a strongly worded letter, or a visit from one of our gutless jackasses from the state department? Once again, it looks as though the burden of response will land squarely on the shoulders of the United States, since the rest of the world doesn't give a flying fuck.

166 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:19am

re: #125 big steve

For those that think Obama entered into the Kremlin's calculus on this, you can just about forget it. Putin has been planning this for some time. They don't give a damn about who is the US president and if he did he would surely want Obama and therefore doing this now plays against this strategy. I suggest we all use our intellectual powers to analyze what is happening in Georgia sans any impact on US presidential candidates.

I'm really not sure I can agree with this. I think there are other countries who watch and analyze our candidates and our elections with much more thought that some of our own citizens. Who is President, plus the fact that a President is on his way out and a new one about to be elected, plays a big part in what other places in the world decide to do or not do. They very well may have been planning this for some time; but I think our election cycle and the fact that Obama appears to be on his way in, played a big part in their decision to go forward with their plans.

167 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:26am

re: #146 buzzsawmonkey

I think Obama has firsthand experience of Marxist theory in action too, but from the commissar side.

At least if one judges by his youthful mentor and his adult friends.

I would agree with you there.

BTW, something is whispering in the back of my head that Russians were actually involved in interrogating prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton. So McCain may very well have real first hand experience of Russian Marxist philosophy.

168 right_wing2  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:41am

And of course, when the Obamessiah asks that all nuclear weapons be destroyed, Putin and the mad mullah's will obey.

All will kneel in awe before the Obamessiah!

169 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:49am

re: #145 jcm

I hate why the people arond me make coffee. It's killer.

4 scoops for at 10 cup maker. YUCK! (-:

my head spins all day long

170 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:27:54am

re: #89 itellu3times

Judging from BP's troubles, the war right now is between the oligarchs and the government.

Some oligarchs are already in prison, have been for some time - others are in Europe, wsting their illicit money, and playing with their football clubs ...

I'm beginning to think that there may be a power struggle between some very hard army generals and Putin himself.
This threat looks like a gauntlet, thrown down not just to the USA, but also at home to Putin: 'work with the Army or else! Show that you mean what you told us!'

(Heh - I may be way off beam here, of course ...)

171 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:28:00am

re: #106 seekeroftruth

There was a article just a few days ago about Russia, Cuba, and nukes.
Could be disinformation and bluster.
[Link: www.voanews.com...]

Nuclear-capable bombers in Cuba would be a waste of bombers. We could shoot them down before they got anywhere near us; it would cost, keeping interceptors in the air, but they'd never get within range.

However, missiles would be a problem.

172 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:28:54am

re: #59 realwest

Um, not to mention our "Boomers" - our nuclear powered submarines, each of which carries enough nuclear warheads to independently hit, iirc, over 120 targets. Some have had partial converstion to non-nuke missiles. Lots haven't. And many of those that haven't are sitting quiety, targets already entered into the computers, awaiting word from the CiC.
Will Russia use nukes on Poland? I'm not a prophet or seer, but unless Putin is totally off his rocker: NO.

Never happen

173 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:10am

re: #154 realwest


Ok buddy... NUKE them till they glow. That work? (-:

174 BackwardsBoy  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:23am

Obama just doesn't understand that there are a lot of jealous countries in the world who would love to cut the US down to size. I've been linking to articles about Iranian tests of an EMP attack because that scenario scares the shit out of me. If the Vapid One can't figure out that we have enemies, which is a constant in this world today, he is a very grave danger to our country. His proposal to stop missile defense programs is proof that he doesn't love our country enough to protect it.

175 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:25am

re: #169 Dustoff-507

I hate why the people arond me make coffee. It's killer.

4 scoops for at 10 cup maker. YUCK! (-:

my head spins all day long

You think it's too much or too little? I use one scoop for every 2 cups.

176 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:27am

Alfred to Batman: Some men just like to watch the world burn.

177 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:33am

re: #84 Opinionated

Russia is openly threatening a nuclear attack in Europe.

If McCain doesn't start showing a substantial lead in the polls in the coming days, something is seriously wrong with the American people.

Something IS wrong, with the MSM.

178 DeafDog  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:35am

re: #66 pat

Obama makes Carter seem merely simpleminded.

Jimmy is merely simpleminded. He didn't need Obama to prove it.

:-)

179 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:36am

re: #169 Dustoff-507

you need

espresso

180 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:37am

I can't wait to see Obama's back-flip on this issue.

I wonder what his score will be? Will he get extra points if his nose doesn't grow?

181 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:38am

Don't forget to air up your tires before you duck and cover.

182 HoosierHoops  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:43am

re: #169 Dustoff-507

I hate why the people arond me make coffee. It's killer.

4 scoops for at 10 cup maker. YUCK! (-:

my head spins all day long

We got these individual packets of about 20 different coffees..
Morning is heaven here

183 freedomplow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:47am

This would be a good time for every country in Europe to tell Russia they will take a missile shield too.

184 Iron Fist  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:29:59am

re: #127 The Other Les

The problem is, other than Lieberman, who'd be in that Party? Joe's looking pretty lonesome. The rest of the Donks have drunk the anti-American koolaid.

185 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:05am

re: #55 FurryOldGuyJeans

I find it rather strange the SciFi Channel would choose now to show the anti-nuclear/anti-war/Anti-Reagan screed The Day After. Coincidence? I doubt it.

How far in advance is their programming determined?

186 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:16am

re: #174 BackwardsBoy

Obama just doesn't understand that there are a lot of jealous countries in the world who would love to cut the US down to size. I've been linking to articles about Iranian tests of an EMP attack because that scenario scares the shit out of me. If the Vapid One can't figure out that we have enemies, which is a constant in this world today, he is a very grave danger to our country. His proposal to stop missile defense programs is proof that he doesn't love our country enough to protect it.

Is it that he doesn't understand, or is it that he agrees with them?

187 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:36am

BTW, they are about to have a discussion of Fox of the 40-page "rebuttal" of Obama Nation. HRH Obama will not be swiftboated!

Heh!

188 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:47am

re: #166 reine.de.tout

However....if you were out to extend your influence, wouldn't you want Obama in the White House versus McCain? If so, they why Georgia now? They could have easily waited till spring.

No.....I think the reasons have nothing to do with our future president. There are suspicious things about the timing and again, when it all comes out we will find out that someone is gaining power on someone else within Russia.

189 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:30:59am

re: #173 Dustoff-507

Ok buddy... NUKE them till they glow. That work? (-:

Then shoot them at night, as someone posted yesterday.

190 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:31:26am

Espresso?

This works now.

191 DistantThunder  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:31:39am

Obambi gives off the wounded animal signal familiar to every predator. And here comes Jaws 1 and Jaws 2 (Putin and Hillary) Who would show up next?

192 Dizzy26  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:31:56am

This latest development, and threat, may just be the excuse the big eared ONE needs to back out of his promised appearance tomorrow night!

193 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:31:59am

Ok all.

Take a breath. As Realwest has already said. Russia has no real combat forces. If they used nukes (which they won't) they would still lose.

Puting is just huffing & puffing and hoping he get's away with it.

I think Bush should just laugh at him.

194 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:02am

re: #185 MandyManners

How far in advance is their programming determined?

Obviously they knew this was coming. They must have a direct link to Rove.

195 RedDish  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:03am

Anyone know what Germany thinks of Obama now?

196 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:29am

re: #175 reine.de.tout

One scoop =10 cups. NOT 4. LOL

197 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:30am

re: #188 big steve

However....if you were out to extend your influence, wouldn't you want Obama in the White House versus McCain? If so, they why Georgia now? They could have easily waited till spring.

No.....I think the reasons have nothing to do with our future president. There are suspicious things about the timing and again, when it all comes out we will find out that someone is gaining power on someone else within Russia.

I don't disagree with the part I bolded. That very well may be part of this, too. But I do believe our election cycle and they way things appeared to be heading play a part in what countries like Russia decide to do or not do, at any given time.

198 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:39am

re: #165 theheat

If Russia were to just up and bomb Poland as you say, we might very well find ourselves in the biggest hot war in 63 years.

Poland is...

A. A member of NATO. Which means, their NATO allies must come to their aid if they are to honor the treaty. The Baltics would, as would the US with either Bush or McCain as President. Ukraine, I think, would as well. I would also expect the Turks to aid given their history with Russia.

B. A fairly strong US ally in Europe, in Afghanistan, and in Iraq. They went with us when the French and others abandoned us.

C. Very strategic ground in Europe. It's defense means protecting the ungrateful French and Germans, as well as others like the Danes.

199 Ojoe  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:46am

re: #191 DistantThunder

1,000 updings for that observation, it is spot on.

200 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:50am

re: #174 BackwardsBoy

Obama just doesn't understand that there are a lot of jealous countries in the world who would love to cut the US down to size. I've been linking to articles about Iranian tests of an EMP attack because that scenario scares the shit out of me. If the Vapid One can't figure out that we have enemies, which is a constant in this world today, he is a very grave danger to our country. His proposal to stop missile defense programs is proof that he doesn't love our country enough to protect it.

I think he DOES understand and he is one THEIR side.

201 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:55am

re: #185 MandyManners

How far in advance is their programming determined?

Months Mandy. They have a website. It is usually a matter of themeatic content. They tend to theme. Creature features, Space adventurers etc.

202 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:32:56am

re: #96 Sir Napsalot

The Russians don't even try to use 'smart munitions' to eliminate/minimize collaterol damage, they just use the WWII old tactics with the bullying tanks and guns blazing.

Still can't believe there are no PEACE rallies around the world this weekend, with millions upon millions of demonstrators.

"OCCUPIERS"
"No Blood for OIL"
"Russia Lied, People Died"
...

I do believe it.

The so-called peace movement has been a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin since World War Two.

203 quickjustice  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:33:00am

Hmmm. I guess the Russkies really want to ignite the next Cold War. In addition to beefing up our military and intelligence presence, we'd better prepare emergency shipments of natural gas to Europe this winter.

If the American people vote for Obama, they're voting for another Jimmy Carter.

204 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:33:12am

re: #189 Ford_Prefect


Damn dude, YOUR mean! (-:

205 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:01am

re: #161 Fat Jolly Penguin

To say nothing of knock-out sexy.

/barftastic warning

So this is BHO's response to everything that is happening. "The world is coming apart at the seems...think I'll go swimming."

206 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:06am

re: #193 Dustoff-507

Ok all.

Take a breath. As Realwest has already said. Russia has no real combat forces. If they used nukes (which they won't) they would still lose.

Puting is just huffing & puffing and hoping he get's away with it.

I think Bush should just laugh at him.

He can laugh all he wants as long as he bites back in some way. Putin and his new Ruslan need to pay some sort of price for this even if it's being booted out of the G8.

207 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:08am

re: #125 big steve

For those that think Obama entered into the Kremlin's calculus on this, you can just about forget it. Putin has been planning this for some time. They don't give a damn about who is the US president and if he did he would surely want Obama and therefore doing this now plays against this strategy. I suggest we all use our intellectual powers to analyze what is happening in Georgia sans any impact on US presidential candidates.

Again, though, if you look at the 2006 elections and the media/elite disdain for Bush, and look at it through a European filter a Democrat elected in 2008 was almost a given. Especially with the re-empowered Left hanging over their heads.

208 keyword  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:25am
Can't I just eat my poi?

/The One

209 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:28am

re: #180 Josephine

I can't wait to see Obama's back-flip on this issue.

I wonder what his score will be? Will he get extra points if his nose doesn't grow?

He has been extremely quiet for days now. Ever since he did the flop following the flip and got his hat handed to him as a johnny-come-lately copycat.

Besides, he is busy trying to refute Obama Nation.

210 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:35am

re: #133 Dustoff-507

How he forgets if it wasn't for us. Germany would have taken them.

... and if Hitler had actually let his generals do their job properly ( perish the thought!).

211 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:35am

re: #196 Dustoff-507

One scoop =10 cups. NOT 4. LOL

Well, then you would never be able to drink my coffee! 1 scoop of dark roast for every 2 cups of coffee made. Been drinking coffee like that since I was 6.

212 The Other Les  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:35am

re: #97 Zippy_Slug

If for some reason the Soviets.. er.. I mean Russia try to launch, and the missile defense works.. Would we be justified in a nuclear response?

We don't have enough interceptors to stop everything that Putin can launch at us. There WILL be a response.

213 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:34:36am

re: #186 Sharmuta

Same thought occurred to me. I think he is part of the deconstructionist movement that is a cause celeb in academic circles. Obama has always had academic pretensions.

214 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:35:42am

re: #193 Dustoff-507

Ok all.

Take a breath. As Realwest has already said. Russia has no real combat forces. If they used nukes (which they won't) they would still lose.
Puting is just huffing & puffing and hoping he get's away with it.

I think Bush should just laugh at him.

SO WOULD WE AND SO WOULD THE REST OF THE WORLD. No one can win all-out nuclear war between nations as heavily armed as we and Russia are armed.

215 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:35:42am

One would hope that all of these world events would make the sane-minded members of the world realize that it is in their best interest to be friends with the U.S. again. Our nuclear umbrella is quite a comforting concept. Keep in mind, most of the hatred we hear about is left wing B.S. in the first place, and mostly left wing hatred. I know that smart people in all countries know we are the "good guys"

216 Tigger2005  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:35:43am

Man...I know I've been participating in these discussions, but I just don't know if I can deal with it anymore. I have family near, but I live alone (with some pets), and I feel isolated and helpless as all this unfolds. There just isn't much I can do but hope the world doesn't blow up before we have a chance to elect McCain. I wish like hell we were acting more decisively right now. It's the relative inaction that scares me. Reagan was always DOING something, always keeping the Russians off balance. That could get scary too, but one thing was certain, the Russians were damn scared of Reagan, and took him seriously.

217 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:35:50am

re: #185 MandyManners

How far in advance is their programming determined?

Normally several weeks at least, but stations can and occasionally do make literally last-minute changes to reflect something they consider worthy of attention by their viewing audience. Not being an avid TV watcher (except for non-fiction fare like history or science shows) I don't scan ahead for what to watch. More and more I am finding any TV I do watch is by DVD from the library, Netflix, or Blockbuster Online.

218 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:35:57am

re: #140 DistantThunder

The Russians figured the US was distracted by the election, watching the Olympics and tied up in Iraq. And they did not want to do this in the winter. A year from now none of those things would have been true. And the Georgians, who have been getting a big training course from the US would be all the stronger.

219 Hard Right  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:02am

re: #48 sevoguy

Anyone know the correct amount of Russian Migs downed by Georgians? I've heard about 8.

I've heard 4 frogfoots and 1 bomber-I think prop driven. Either way, this will be an expensive invasion for them.

220 Iron Fist  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:02am

re: #144 Sharmuta

I hope you are right. The last three elections have been critical. Can you imagine 9-11 with Al Gore as President? Iraq under John Kerry? Now we are facing a resurgent Russia, still armed with nuclear weapons, and not at all afraid to threaten with them. Yet Obama is still slightly ahead in the polls.

I'll be happy when this election is over with.

221 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:06am

re: #204 Dustoff-507

Damn dude, YOUR mean! (-:

Just quoting somebody from yesterday, don't remember who.

222 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:08am

re: #194 Ford_Prefect

Obviously they knew this was coming. They must have a direct link to Rove.

When does the Magnificent Bastard sleep?

223 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:37am

Obama took his kids to the Arizona Memorial yesterday. I don't think Michelle could stomach the trip. Bit too patriotic for her tastes.

224 lifeofthemind  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:38am

McCain needs to look at Obama then look at the camera and say "My friends this is no time for amateurs. The security of America is not soething that can be treated as a photo op or given to someone who thinks he can show up and get the t-shirt.

225 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:40am

re: #211 reine.de.tout

Well, then you would never be able to drink my coffee! 1 scoop of dark roast for every 2 cups of coffee made. Been drinking coffee like that since I was 6.


One scoop per cup for me...

226 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:41am

re: #198 Honorary Yooper


A member of NATO. Which means, their NATO allies must come to their aid.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is where I disagree. NATO just like the UN is a joke. Look what happened during Kosovo. USA did most of the lifting.
I just think they would huff and puff... but never really come to their aid unless we sent in everything!

227 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:52am

re: #195 RedDish

Anyone know what Germany thinks of Obama now?

I bet they're laughing and crying at the same time.

228 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:36:59am

re: #154 realwest

Hey there my friend - how dare you take such a non-defeatist attitude!?!

When this started up, I read up on status of nuclear forces. Those of us who remember the old days of MAD remember strike, counter strike etc.

The Russian threat in nuclear terms is as Dustoff put BS.
I let interested lizard do their own research.

The US maintains it's full compliment of land based ICBMs, sea launched ICBMs and air launched mostly cruise missiles. All of our stuff works and is in play.

The Russians on the other hand are in bad shape. Only their land based solid fueled rocket force is really ready. The liquid fueled force is maintenance intensive and largely ineffective. Their sub force cannot counter the Ohio's and their remaining SSBN's are not in great shape and can be countered by SSN's so they essentially have no sea launch strike capacity. The same for their air launch, they can muster only a portion of their force and that will run into F-22 wings and is not a player.

The point is only a fraction of Russian nuclear warhead are really in play.

Russian know this, a nuclear exchange would devastate us, and annihilate them. Russia is not Iran, they are not suicidal.

The threat is aimed at those who can be cowed into appeasement.

229 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:37:26am

re: #201 pat

Months Mandy. They have a website. It is usually a matter of themeatic content. They tend to theme. Creature features, Space adventurers etc.

I'm sure this was a mere coincidence.

230 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:37:35am

re: #225 scottishbuzzsaw

One scoop per cup for me...

Brave woman!

231 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:37:37am

re: #206 vapig


I'm not saying don't push... hell shove. Just not buying this O-no nukes talk.

232 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:37:45am

re: #187 galloping granny

HRH Obama will not be swiftboated

I LOL when J effin Kerry was one of the ones leading the counterassault against Corsi's current book using as evidence the 'failed' accusations made in 'Unfit for Command'. Has Kerry ever released his full military records as promised? I didn't think so.

The more the Obamamessiah (Press Bloviations Upon Him) whinges about this stuff by attacking Corsi as opposed to addressing the specifics of the real charges against him - the complete lack of detail and explanations on his policies beyond 'change' - then he is making the same major strategic mistake that Kerry made in '04.

It's easy to attack Corsi. That's not the point. The point is still that this candidate remains clueless about economics and geopolitics. We had a President once who was like that. I remember the Carter years. I would prefer to not experience them again.

233 willowone  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:37:59am

i am glad we have decided to step up polands defense.

234 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:17am

re: #223 pat

I guess they went to see what damage that Bomb did.

235 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:20am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

Brave woman!

Yup, I like it strong. Must be the Scot in me!

236 Spiny Norman  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:24am

re: #76 noshariaincanada

LLLefties love this kind of subtle Russian diplomacy.

Russian (or Chinese) bluster gives them a collective woody.

237 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:26am
238 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:43am

re: #195 RedDish

The watermelons of Germany still love him. They don't love the US, so that is probably the reason they still love the Obamamessiah (Press Bloviations Upon Him).

239 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:38:55am

re: #169 Dustoff-507

I hate why the people arond me make coffee. It's killer.

4 scoops for at 10 cup maker. YUCK! (-:

my head spins all day long

We have an automated bean grinder, Starbucks beans. Fresh grinds right into the brew filter. Put the filter in the maker push brew....

It's not that hard......

240 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:39:14am

re: #228 jcm


BINGO..... can you say 'smoke & mirrors'

241 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:39:18am

re: #226 Dustoff-507

A member of NATO. Which means, their NATO allies must come to their aid.
++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++

This is where I disagree. NATO just like the UN is a joke. Look what happened during Kosovo. USA did most of the lifting.
I just think they would huff and puff... but never really come to their aid unless we sent in everything!

That's why I said this as well, Dustoff,

if they are to honor the treaty

That said, the Baltics, Turkey, Ukraine (non-NATO), as well as the US would get involved. We and they cannot afford not to.

242 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:39:22am

re: #220 Iron Fist

I hope you are right. The last three elections have been critical. Can you imagine 9-11 with Al Gore as President? Iraq under John Kerry? Now we are facing a resurgent Russia, still armed with nuclear weapons, and not at all afraid to threaten with them. Yet Obama is still slightly ahead in the polls.

I'll be happy when this election is over with.

Hmmmmm, your recitation of the last three election cycles points up something I had been feeling on a subconscious level for quite some time. Each election the Dems have been putting up someone more Leftist and Anti-American than the last.

243 tfc3rid  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:39:25am

I believe that Russia has clearly crossed the line... There is no turning back relations-wise between the West and Russia now... She has isolated herself once again but this time, the West will not allow further aggression...

However, I really do think that the Russians will give Iran, Cuba and Venezuela nukes... Much more dangerous than before...

244 Sol Roth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:00am

re: #23 Maximu§

I was a soldier in the Cold War and I don't remember ever hearing threats like this from the USSR...ever.

Russians play chess well, but this is a risky move for them.


Given the immediacy and global reach of MIRVed ICBMS, we are all Cold Warriors. Unless of course, everyone everywhere destroys every nuclear device extant, destroys all design plans, forgets how to build them and all uranium disappears from the Earth. (moonbattish, isn't it?)

Thanks for being there keeping us safe.

245 Miss Trixie  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:03am

re: #204 Dustoff-507

Damn dude, YOUR you're mean! (-:

Fixededed. :P

246 Red Cloud  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:09am

Russia is clearly at this point banking on the election of Mr. Obama. Pooty-Poot is ready to fire up the Cold War again and wants his nation in the driver's seat when it happens.

They're all talk, though. If Russia were to actually nuke Poland for no apparent reason, even if there was a claimed reason, you'd have to think that would be enough to wake pacifist Europe from their peace-at-any-price slumber.

It's 1941 again and there's a different sleeping dragon out there - Europe. It'll be awfully difficult to wake them, but the Russians have the capability.

247 RedDish  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:12am

re: #238 Athos

But, when Russia invades Poland....who does Germany want as President then?

That could be a new campaign ad!

248 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:30am

re: #155 Honorary Yooper

The world seems to be realigning and moving very fast these past couple of weeks. Who knows what will happen next. I've seen things these past two weeks I never expected to see in my lifetime.

It also makes me think that some of the seething crowds of would-be jihadists may very quietly collect their toys and re-think of which side they really want to be on.
After all - the sort-of-islamic republics of the former Soviet Union might well be on the minds of those generals for the next bit of 'peace-keeping' ...

When elephants start dancing, the rest of the animals better watch out!

249 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:35am

WTF happened to Germany?

sixty-odd years ago, they fielded one tough army and their soldiers were hard veterans.....now, after 2 generations of socialism, their a buncha pansies! I read in Afghanistan recently, their soldiers could'nt even fire back at the Taliban.

We can't count on Germany to help us...France is worse....Britains military is shrunken to a self-defence force....Spain has gone the same way as Germany.

We really don't have any European friends that will back us up if push comes to a shove.

250 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:42am

re: #202 The Other Les

I do believe it.

The so-called peace movement has been a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin since World War Two.

Actually, since World War I. I'm in the process of going through books for the coming school year. Our theme this year is going to be Modern Times by the Decade. So, I ordered a book of historical documents specifically about WWI and was amazed to discover that the things that today's "peace movement" has to say are word for word quotations of what the "peace movement" and "international solidarity movement" were saying in 1910 or so.

251 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:43am

re: #226 Dustoff-507

A member of NATO. Which means, their NATO allies must come to their aid.
++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++

This is where I disagree. NATO just like the UN is a joke. Look what happened during Kosovo. USA did most of the lifting.
I just think they would huff and puff... but never really come to their aid unless we sent in everything!

I agree. When we were attacked on 911 I was actually surprised and gratified when they enacted Article 5 of the NATO charter - an attack on one is an attack on all. But when push came to shove we see what that support actually consisted of.........

252 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:43am

re: #203 quickjustice

Hmmm. I guess the Russkies really want to ignite the next Cold War. In addition to beefing up our military and intelligence presence, we'd better prepare emergency shipments of natural gas to Europe this winter.

If the American people vote for Obama, they're voting for another Jimmy Carter.

/Maybe Gerhard Schroeder can throw some weight around in Moscow...

253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:40:58am

One of my co-workers was just explaining to me how this whole thing was orchestrated by a secret meeting of business and world leaders in order to make money off war contracts and loans.

254 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:41:02am

re: #231 Dustoff-507

I'm not saying don't push... hell shove. Just not buying this O-no nukes talk.

Gotcha!

255 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:41:35am

re: #246 Red Cloud

1938, not 1941. Georgia is playing the role of Czechoslovakia this time around, and South Ossetia is the Russian Sudetenland.

256 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:41:58am

This is slightly off topic , but at least ties in to Barry.
FNC had Jerome Corsi on this morning promoting his book 'Obama Nation". Corsi has isuues, not the least of which, he is a troother on 9/11.
To me though the isuue is free speech. No surprise, he is getting death threats. So many Obama supporters are angry, addled, applicants for victimhood. Here is the kicker though, Kos posted his address & is encouraging his minions to leave their mothers basement & go harass the Corsi family.
The Obama campaign has launched into ad hominem attacks rather than refute his assertions. Their most serious attack on the facts is that he got the date of the Obama wedding wrong!

257 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:03am

re: #244 Sol Roth

Given the immediacy and global reach of MIRVed ICBMS, we are all Cold Warriors. Unless of course, everyone everywhere destroys every nuclear device extant, destroys all design plans, forgets how to build them and all uranium disappears from the Earth. (moonbattish, isn't it?)

Thanks for being there keeping us safe.

We have to forget all quantum physics etc..... the nuclear chain reaction is a part of nature. Go look at teh sun (carefully) if you don't believe.

258 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:04am

re: #228 jcm

When this started up, I read up on status of nuclear forces. Those of us who remember the old days of MAD remember strike, counter strike etc.

The Russian threat in nuclear terms is as Dustoff put BS.
I let interested lizard do their own research.

The US maintains it's full compliment of land based ICBMs, sea launched ICBMs and air launched mostly cruise missiles. All of our stuff works and is in play.

The Russians on the other hand are in bad shape. Only their land based solid fueled rocket force is really ready. The liquid fueled force is maintenance intensive and largely ineffective. Their sub force cannot counter the Ohio's and their remaining SSBN's are not in great shape and can be countered by SSN's so they essentially have no sea launch strike capacity. The same for their air launch, they can muster only a portion of their force and that will run into F-22 wings and is not a player.

The point is only a fraction of Russian nuclear warhead are really in play.

Russian know this, a nuclear exchange would devastate us, and annihilate them. Russia is not Iran, they are not suicidal.

The threat is aimed at those who can be cowed into appeasement.

I think you're right. This is poker, though, and we will probably have call their bluff.
It has been the Russians betting a million rubles, us raising 100 rubles, the Russians raising 10 million; etc.

259 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:06am

re: #220 Iron Fist

It's interesting there are no polls out right now asking the American people what they think of this mess. Traditionally, when foreign affairs become more pressing, it's the Republicans who Americans turn to. I just can't imagine we'd call a rookie out of the bullpen.

260 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:10am

re: #239 jcm


WOW you guys rate... Granted, the company pays for ours. (-:

261 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:23am

re: #216 Tigger2005

the Russians were damn scared of Reagan, and took him seriously.

I spent time in the Soviet Union as an exchange student, I speak a little Russian, and today I have business dealings with two Russian companies. Certainly not wanting to generalize about a people I admire, but Russians today are feeling insecure about their place in the world. They do not want to return to Soviet communism but they certainly do want to return to their status as a world leader. They are just very clumsy on how they do this. Also their political system is well beyond broke. While they do have elections, the whole Putin in the background thing makes it clear that they don't have timeworn political processes. Also they are flush with cash (the government that is) which always makes their leader binge happy. I don't think Georgia is a prelude to WWIII it is just an internal manhood contest.

262 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:29am

Does anyone know what kind of target the Milan Army Ammunition Plant would make for nukes?

[Link: www.globalsecurity.org...]

263 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:31am

So I say we deploy a Pershing III.

264 RedDish  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:43am

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hopefully, you were drinking some strong coffee at the time...which is now all over his/her shirt. From your nose.

265 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:49am

re: #171 Kosh's Shadow

Nuclear-capable bombers in Cuba would be a waste of bombers. We could shoot them down before they got anywhere near us; it would cost, keeping interceptors in the air, but they'd never get within range.

However, missiles would be a problem.

Those Bears carry a very long range cruise missile. But if they land in "Cuber" they are definitely in range of our fighters.

266 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:42:53am

I smell a sweet deal on Polish real estate for the US Army/Air Force.

267 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:43:02am

re: #241 Honorary Yooper


True, but I just don't trust the bastards!

268 Dizzy26  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:43:38am

The entire free world is going to be adding a 'closing' line in their prayers
tonight; "God, (Allah), let the United States protect us too!

269 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:43:54am

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

From now on, when someone starts talking B.S. like that, just walk away in the middle of their sentence. If they have any respect for you, this action may make them think how ridiculous they sound.

270 Red Cloud  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:03am

re: #255 Honorary Yooper

Different reference. In 1941, after Pearl Harbor, somebody (one of the moderates) in Japan feared that all they had done was "awoken a sleeping dragon."

I agree with the 1938 reference in regards to the situation in Georgia. Any situation in Poland might quickly escalate into the Europeans finally realizing that sometimes you have to back up words with real action.

271 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:19am

re: #261 big steve

Unfortuantely, internal pissing contests can become much bigger events on the world stage. Wouldn't be the first time, and I'm certain it would not be the last time.

272 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:28am
273 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:44:31am

re: #249 Maximu§

WTF happened to Germany?

sixty-odd years ago, they fielded one tough army and their soldiers were hard veterans.....now, after 2 generations of socialism, their a buncha pansies! I read in Afghanistan recently, their soldiers could'nt even fire back at the Taliban.

We can't count on Germany to help us...France is worse....Britains military is shrunken to a self-defence force....Spain has gone the same way as Germany.

We really don't have any European friends that will back us up if push comes to a shove.

We have drummed it into the German people just how bad and horrible they are for more than 60 years now. We have piled tremendous guilt on their younger generations for WWII. One Lizard a year or so ago was telling about an exchange student that she had from Germany a couple of years ago that was horribly depressed and negative about his own country. She had to educate him about the many wonderful things that Germans have been responsible for - he had learned nothing but guilt at home.

274 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:02am

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One of my co-workers was just explaining to me how this whole thing was orchestrated by a secret meeting of business and world leaders in order to make money off war contracts and loans.

Does he get his information from Alex Jones? Tex Marres?

275 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:04am

re: #165 theheat

Look at the map of Poland, my friend. Germany would most certainly 'notice' - and so would the Czech republik, Hungary, the Baltic States. and the Ukraine. Those more than any others know what its like to be under Soviet domination.
They notice already, and if anything happens remotely looking like Georgia, there will be no hesitation that time.
Its one thing to deal with places 'far away' - its another if stuff in your own backyard is threatened.

276 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:12am

re: #265 Colonel Panik


Let's see Cuba is 90 miles out. A F-22 fly's at mach 2. So what 2 mins to target. (-:

277 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:37am

re: #260 Dustoff-507

WOW you guys rate... Granted, the company pays for ours. (-:

Company pays too, high tech, more perks, stocked soda fridge, stocked snack shelf.

*rubbing it in if you can't tell ;-)*

278 quickjustice  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:43am

re: #237 buzzsawmonkey

Let me agree, and add that until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, there was a vigorous anti-war movement in this country prior to World War II.

Anyone remember "America First" and the "German-American Bund"? Or even the Communist Party of the U.S., which was adamantly anti-war until Hitler attacked Russia?

It's 1936 again, people.

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:43am

Koskidz embrace Buchanan as they arrive at the moronic convergence......
Pat Buchanan, Caught Making Sense!

For the past week, the MSM and the McCain Campaign have been bending over backwards to portray Georgia as the victim in the Russia/Georgia conflict.
It seems everytime I turn on the TeeVee, Saakashvili is on, talking to Wolf, Larry King, or whoever, stating his case for America to come to his aid against the Big Bad Bear. The MSM has been, once again, giving only one side of the story, and leaving out whatever doesn't fit the NeoCon Narrative of "Democracy Good, Russia Bad". Not one single news outlet was even reporting anything about this "conflict" until Russia responded. Then the narrative was established that it was RUSSIA that was using the Olympics as a cover to "take over" Ossetia.

This is a lie.

Progressive!

280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:45:59am

re: #264 RedDish

Hopefully, you were drinking some strong coffee at the time...which is now all over his/her shirt. From your nose.

I asked him if he was referring to the Pentaverate, which included the Gettys, the Rothschilds, the Pope and Col Sanders before he went tits up in the chicken business, using a Scottish accent.

He was not amused.

281 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:03am

I have an old high school buddy in Poland with the military. Hope he and his family stay safe. Last I chatted with him over Facebook, it was before everything went wacko over in that part of the world. Bet he's been busy!

282 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:13am

re: #266 maddogg


Great tour of duty.... not fair for us old soldiers.. )-:

283 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:14am

re: #261 big steve

I don't think Georgia is a prelude to WWIII it is just an internal manhood contest.

Let's put Putin and Saakashvili in a cage.

284 Iron Fist  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:22am

re: #256 opnion

He missed sending WAB an anniversary gift? I bet she is pissed! Besides, how is this book helping her children? That is the question we all should be asking ourselves.

(The Obamas are beyond parody)

285 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:45am

re: #275 yma o hyd

I have to agree- I don't believe the Poles want to return to tyranny. They will fight to keep the freedom they've won. Same with their neighbors who were in similar boats.

286 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:49am

re: #277 jcm


DAmn. Time for me to look for another job. LOL

287 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:50am

re: #209 galloping granny

He has been extremely quiet for days now. Ever since he did the flop following the flip and got his hat handed to him as a johnny-come-lately copycat.

Besides, he is busy trying to refute Obama Nation.

I'm so out of the loop, I hadn't heard about the book. I'll have to read up about it; thanks.

(Will I ever finish my major spring cleaning/reorganizing? I need to win the lottery so I can scrap it all and buy a new house with lots of storage space.)

288 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:54am

re: #249 Maximu§

We really don't have any European friends that will back us up if push comes to a shove.

Realistically, we have very few friends who will do that anywhere in the world. The ones that will do so because of shared values not because of any treaty - military or economic.

We cannot buy friends and allies. We either have them or not. Surrendering, appeasing, and or going prostrate before other nations to do what they want us to do in order to gain their 'friendship' gains us neither a friend or respect. We need to stop worrying about what others think of us and start leading and standing proud on our values. Those values made this country into what it is.

289 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:46:58am

re: #258 Kosh's Shadow

I think you're right. This is poker, though, and we will probably have call their bluff.
It has been the Russians betting a million rubles, us raising 100 rubles, the Russians raising 10 million; etc.

The message is to Congress and the rest of the weak kneed who crap their pants at every time some one says "nuc."

290 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:01am

re: #256 opnion

This is slightly off topic , but at least ties in to Barry.
FNC had Jerome Corsi on this morning promoting his book 'Obama Nation". Corsi has isuues, not the least of which, he is a troother on 9/11.
To me though the isuue is free speech. No surprise, he is getting death threats. So many Obama supporters are angry, addled, applicants for victimhood. Here is the kicker though, Kos posted his address & is encouraging his minions to leave their mothers basement & go harass the Corsi family.
The Obama campaign has launched into ad hominem attacks rather than refute his assertions. Their most serious attack on the facts is that he got the date of the Obama wedding wrong!

One good thing: That 41 page rebuttal makes HRH Obama look like the biggest whiney baby in the universe. And he just handed out 41 extra pages of ammunition to the fact checkers of the world. Nearly every word of it can be re-rebutted by Obama's own words, either from his books or video.

291 Red Cloud  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:01am

re: #249 Maximu§

Doesn't Germany have some kind of self-defense clause similar to the Japanese following World War II, so that they can't initiate action except for self-defense?

Which is stupid, I might add - we really ought to especially let the Japanese off the leash. With their economy and history, they could potentially create a very resourceful military - one that would now be a potent ally.

292 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:09am

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I asked him if he was referring to the Pentaverate, which included the Gettys, the Rothschilds, the Pope and Col Sanders before he went tits up in the chicken business, using a Scottish accent.

He was not amused.

ROFLMAO!

293 Spiny Norman  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:31am

re: #232 Athos

I LOL when J effin Kerry was one of the ones leading the counterassault against Corsi's current book using as evidence the 'failed' accusations made in 'Unfit for Command'. Has Kerry ever released his full military records as promised? I didn't think so.

Apparently he did: to the NY Times, LA Times and the Washington Post, under the stipulation they report only certain things and not let anyone else see them. Either they are absolutely and completely in the tank for the Democrats, or they signed some legally-binding document for the privilege, because they're still sitting on them. This way Lurch can dismiss any further inquiry into releasing his full records, without anything embarassing or politically damaging ever coming to light.

294 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:41am

re: #270 Red Cloud

Different reference. In 1941, after Pearl Harbor, somebody (one of the moderates) in Japan feared that all they had done was "awoken a sleeping dragon."

I agree with the 1938 reference in regards to the situation in Georgia. Any situation in Poland might quickly escalate into the Europeans finally realizing that sometimes you have to back up words with real action.

Admiral Yamamoto made that statement; he planned the attack on Pearl Harbor, and pulled it off, despite his misgivings.

I think others make the same mistake Tojo did, to think the US won't wake up. Osama, I think, was one of those, and now Putin.

295 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:47am

re: #276 Dustoff-507

Let's see Cuba is 90 miles out. A F-22 fly's at mach 2. So what 2 mins to target. (-:

Not to mention that we fly in and out of Cuba all the time ----->Gitmo.

296 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:51am

re: #284 Iron Fist

He missed sending WAB an anniversary gift? I bet she is pissed! Besides, how is this book helping her children? That is the question we all should be asking ourselves.

(The Obamas are beyond parody)

True

297 rlevitin  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:47:53am

It occurs to me that the primary reason so many moonbat lefties are screaming that this is some sort of right-wing conspiracy specifically engineered to get McCain elected, is probably because they feel themselves preferring McCain as POTUS over their chosen One in a world where these events can unfold as they are.

The only way to solve this type of psychological problem is to deny the reality of what is happening and convince themselves that McCain/Bush or some McCain/Bush lackey is really the only one orchestrating all of this... reaffirming their desire for "Change" and convincing themselves all the more that Obama is the only "Hope".

Thus, the louder one screams about how this will help McCain, the more one doubts Obama's qualifications...

298 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:48:18am

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I asked him if he was referring to the Pentaverate, which included the Gettys, the Rothschilds, the Pope and Col Sanders before he went tits up in the chicken business, using a Scottish accent.

He was not amused.

You left out the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission!

299 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:48:24am

re: #286 Dustoff-507

DAmn. Time for me to look for another job. LOL

It's really rough back when we were a startup we had catered lunch every day. Now we got pretzels and soda. Hard times, hard times I tell 'ya.

300 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:48:44am

re: #273 galloping granny

We have drummed it into the German people just how bad and horrible they are for more than 60 years now. We have piled tremendous guilt on their younger generations for WWII. One Lizard a year or so ago was telling about an exchange student that she had from Germany a couple of years ago that was horribly depressed and negative about his own country. She had to educate him about the many wonderful things that Germans have been responsible for - he had learned nothing but guilt at home.

Sounds like the guilt trip the Liberals try and pile on our kids.

301 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:48:48am

re: #283 MandyManners

I don't think Georgia is a prelude to WWIII it is just an internal manhood contest.

Let's put Putin and Saakashvili in a cage.

Wonder who would win in the cage with Putin - McCain or Obama. Obama is younger, probably quicker on his feet, and probably had to duke it out a few times as a mixed race kid. McCain, while older, just looks flat assed mean.

302 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:25am

re: #301 big steve

Does McCain get to bring his jet?

303 jcm  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:27am

re: #298 RememberSekhmet?

You left out the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission!

The Illuminati have put you on their watch list!

304 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:39am

re: #211 reine.de.tout

Well, then you would never be able to drink my coffee! 1 scoop of dark roast for every 2 cups of coffee made. Been drinking coffee like that since I was 6.

Since you were six?

Reine, somebody's gotta have a talk with your mama...

; )

305 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:42am

re: #298 RememberSekhmet?

You left out the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission!

And, the Club of Rome.

306 RedDish  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:50am

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Okay. I admit I had to look it up. That done, I like it!

307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:53am

re: #298 RememberSekhmet?

You left out the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission!

lol, he actually mentioned the Bilderberg group. I asked "Build a burger? Like a cheeseburger?"

Again, not amused.

308 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:49:57am

re: #303 jcm

The Illuminati have put you on their watch list!

FNORD!

309 Hard Right  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:03am

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One of my co-workers was just explaining to me how this whole thing was orchestrated by a secret meeting of business and world leaders in order to make money off war contracts and loans.

Tri-lateral commission, Bergermeister BS? I had a few guys on a gun board attack me because I called such beliefs bogus and paranoid.

310 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:05am

No problem, we'll just tell Putin to get rid of all his nukes.

- Obama

/pass the doobie, haole!

311 ZenLizard  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:10am

"Don't try to defend yourself from our nukes, or we'll nuke ya!"
.....Whaaaa? THAT'S RETARDED!

312 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:15am

re: #305 MandyManners

And, the Club of Rome.

That reminds, me I'm getting hungry.

313 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:23am

re: #301 big steve

Wonder who would win in the cage with Putin - McCain or Obama. Obama is younger, probably quicker on his feet, and probably had to duke it out a few times as a mixed race kid. McCain, while older, just looks flat assed mean.

Smart money on Putin over Barry & McCain could whip either one of them.

314 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:50:24am

re: #301 big steve

Wonder who would win in the cage with Putin - McCain or Obama. Obama is younger, probably quicker on his feet, and probably had to duke it out a few times as a mixed race kid. McCain, while older, just looks flat assed mean.

I'd rather have Sen. McCain at my six than BHO.

315 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:06am

re: #305 MandyManners

And, the Club of Rome.

Bretton Woods conference! PNAC! The Amero!

/uh, yeah

316 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:10am

re: #216 Tigger2005

{Tigger}

Do not despair!

317 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:14am

re: #256 opnion

This is slightly off topic , but at least ties in to Barry.
FNC had Jerome Corsi on this morning promoting his book 'Obama Nation". Corsi has isuues, not the least of which, he is a troother on 9/11.

WTF? Linkys please. I had no idea this guy was a troofer.

His book on Kerry in '04 was excellent. I was reading his Obama book last night and contrary to the assertions made by some he does not claim that Obama is a Muslim or that he went to a "Madrassa" as we know them in Pakistan, but he did say the Obama's exposure to Islam as a child in Indonesia would likely make him more disposed to be sympathetic to Muslim political demands.

318 quickjustice  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:25am

re: #256 opnion

Corsi's book is number 1 on the NY Times bestseller list, meaning it has critical mass. It must be killing Obama.

When you stick a pig , he squeals. Obama is squealing like . . .

319 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:25am

re: #314 MandyManners

I'd rather have Sen. McCain at my six than BHO.

Yeah, but which one would you let eat crackers in your bed?

320 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:26am

re: #304 Josephine

Since you were six?

Reine, somebody's gotta have a talk with your mama...

; )

Six? Oh so you were a Chinese gymnast then too>

321 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:37am

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

lol, he actually mentioned the Bilderberg group. I asked "Build a burger? Like a cheeseburger?"

Again, not amused.

I prefer Cheezeburger to Bildaberger stuff

322 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:47am

re: #312 Kenneth

That reminds, me I'm getting hungry.

Burgers and club sandwiches will get ya' going.

323 Sol Roth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:47am

re: #121 Iron Fist

So is it OK, like, to call for nuking Russia first? One good strategic first strike would ruin their whole day. Putin ought to think in those terms, but he thinks that the restriant on the part of the US in Afghanistan means weakness. Coupled with the possibility of an Obama Presidency with a Democratic Congress, he might be right. A lot is riding on this election.

The reality is that we, like a police officer, must wait for Russia to escalate the use of force. And you know that it will take Russia invading Poland or the Ukraine before the "New World Order" twits reach a consensus that we have to defend ourselves.

Until then, it'll just be the usual gum-flapping and DNC treason sideshow.

324 wiffersnapper  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:51:51am

Change we can believe in!

325 littleO  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:00am

The first sniff test everyone need apply to candidates for POTUS is over national defence! It doesn't matter what kind of world a candidate envisions. Its all about the world we live in. Demo's want us to vote for them with a 'wink-wink' we'll do the necessary things, trust us mentality.
obama seriously needs to reflect on whether he really wants the job. This worlds problems are not going away with retoric. Depending on signed agreements can seriously damage this country's strategic position, leading to terrible calamity.
Bush didn't invision this war. Didn't want to fight it. The trouble is that Obama see's the war, and wants to sidestep it.
There is a strong possibility he will win this election!

326 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:01am

I would like McCain to make some statements regarding Old Europe's near complete lack of defense capability/equipment. AND the lack of will to use it. This is in their back yard (again) and the Euros simultaneously blame us (The United States) for the problem and look to us for protection.

327 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:02am

re: #288 Athos

Realistically, we have very few friends who will do that anywhere in the world. The ones that will do so because of shared values not because of any treaty - military or economic.

We cannot buy friends and allies. We either have them or not. Surrendering, appeasing, and or going prostrate before other nations to do what they want us to do in order to gain their 'friendship' gains us neither a friend or respect. We need to stop worrying about what others think of us and start leading and standing proud on our values. Those values made this country into what it is.

Good point and very well said. There was a time when other countries worried about what we thought of them.

328 kansas  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:05am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Yes- how dare Russia's neighbors defend themselves. You assholes really want to nuke Poland? Bring it- you'll get your ass handed to you.


Apparently not by us.

329 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:06am

re: #287 Josephine


Naaaa, don't do that. I have a house with a huge garage and two large storage areas and guess what... full of JUNK. )-:

330 HoosierHoops  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:08am

re: #247 RedDish

But, when Russia invades Poland....who does Germany want as President then?

That could be a new campaign ad!


who are you going to call at 3am during an invasion?

331 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:17am

re: #301 big steve

Putin is KGB, martial arts and in pretty good shape.

332 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:18am

Gen George S Patton was correct.
And paid for it with his life.

333 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:22am

re: #313 opnion

Smart money on Putin over Barry & McCain could whip either one of them.

At the same time, with one arm tied behind his back.

334 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:23am

re: #287 Josephine

I'm so out of the loop, I hadn't heard about the book. I'll have to read up about it; thanks.

(Will I ever finish my major spring cleaning/reorganizing? I need to win the lottery so I can scrap it all and buy a new house with lots of storage space.)

There actually are a few out - 4 or 5 out of the Top 10 books in politics on Amazon - and HRH Obama's books are not in the top 10 at all.

I went into Borders a couple of days ago and they had a great big table stacked with them all just inside the front door. I did finally find a single copy of obama's audacity book towards the back of the store on the next to the bottom shelf. If you had not gone into specifically to find it you would never have known it was there.

335 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:24am

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

lol, he actually mentioned the Bilderberg group. I asked "Build a burger? Like a cheeseburger?"

Again, not amused.

Or Build-A-Bear Workshop?

336 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:27am

re: #291 Red Cloud

Doesn't Germany have some kind of self-defense clause similar to the Japanese following World War II, so that they can't initiate action except for self-defense?

Which is stupid, I might add - we really ought to especially let the Japanese off the leash. With their economy and history, they could potentially create a very resourceful military - one that would now be a potent ally.

If I was the German leader I would have my German forces heavily involved in Afghanistan fighting besides the Americans, just to give them a feel for combat and a taste of blood.

You let an Army sit for 60-odd years and it becomes worthless.

337 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:42am

Russian propaganda on Fox.....
FOX News Rudely Cuts-Off Anti-Georgian Girl On Live T.V.

FOX news, the main mouthpiece of war-monger GW Bush fully backs western-loving Georgia in this current war and rudely cutted off a pro-Russian 12-year-old girl for simply saying the truth.... that GW Bush's Georgian puppets are the main instigators of this war and the ones committing indescriminate civilian attacks in South Ossetia.

338 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:52:42am

re: #315 Ward Cleaver

Bretton Woods conference! PNAC! The Amero!

/uh, yeah

Bohemian Grove!

339 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:12am

re: #315 Ward Cleaver

Bretton Woods conference! PNAC! The Amero!

/uh, yeah

Don't forget the Freemasons, Rosecrutions, and of course, the Joooos

340 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:15am

re: #319 Kenneth

Yeah, but which one would you let eat crackers in your bed?

Ew. Neither.

341 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:18am

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

lol, he actually mentioned the Bilderberg group. I asked "Build a burger? Like a cheeseburger?"

/Henry Kissinger accent on

"At zee Bild-a-burger ve bild a bettah burger!"

342 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:20am

re: #299 jcm


I feel for ya brother.

Did I tall you some 6'4 puke took a swing at me in the Mukilteo postoffice.

343 opnion  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:21am

re: #290 galloping granny

One good thing: That 41 page rebuttal makes HRH Obama look like the biggest whiney baby in the universe. And he just handed out 41 extra pages of ammunition to the fact checkers of the world. Nearly every word of it can be re-rebutted by Obama's own words, either from his books or video.

I think that the Obama campaign is trying to run out the clock.
The longer that this goes on, the more nutty Barry looks.
The Rebvuttal is to tie things up , but as you point out could be a major mistake if things are not verified.

344 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:56am

re: #331 Tarkus289

Putin is KGB, martial arts and in pretty good shape.

Putin was an engineer.....us engineers, we fight with slide rules.

345 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:53:56am
346 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:07am

re: #326 RTLM

I would like McCain to make some statements regarding Old Europe's near complete lack of defense capability/equipment. AND the lack of will to use it. This is in their back yard (again) and the Euros simultaneously blame us (The United States) for the problem and look to us for protection.

It's a sick symbiosis but, we encouraged it for ages.

347 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:14am

re: #305 MandyManners

And, the Club of Rome.

Don't forget the Priory of Sion.

And the Grey aliens.

348 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:20am

re: #293 Spiny Norman

Apparently he did: to the NY Times, LA Times and the Washington Post, under the stipulation they report only certain things and not let anyone else see them. Either they are absolutely and completely in the tank for the Democrats, or they signed some legally-binding document for the privilege, because they're still sitting on them. This way Lurch can dismiss any further inquiry into releasing his full records, without anything embarassing or politically damaging ever coming to light.

All of which would make the average person wonder just what was in them that required a confidentiality agreement. Surely he must have something really bad there to hide, or he wouldn't be trying to hide them.

349 right_wing2  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:29am

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One of my co-workers was just explaining to me how this whole thing was orchestrated by a secret meeting of business and world leaders in order to make money off war contracts and loans.

Cranial-rectal inversion syndrome?

350 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:37am

re: #319 Kenneth

Yeah, but which one would you let eat crackers in your bed?

Cindy McCain!

351 maddogg  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:44am

I am given to understand that the "German Army" is unionized, and therefore fully as effective as that implies.

352 calvin coolidge  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:49am

If BHO becomes President, he wants us to learn other languages. I'm going out and buy my "Learn Russian" book now, because if he becomes President it will end up being our official language.

353 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:54:54am

re: #334 galloping granny

There actually are a few out - 4 or 5 out of the Top 10 books in politics on Amazon - and HRH Obama's books are not in the top 10 at all.

I went into Borders a couple of days ago and they had a great big table stacked with them all just inside the front door. I did finally find a single copy of obama's audacity book towards the back of the store on the next to the bottom shelf. If you had not gone into specifically to find it you would never have known it was there.

Wow!

354 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:55:20am

re: #252 RTLM

/Maybe Gerhard Schroeder can throw some weight around in Moscow...

Gah!
Will he say, 'we don't want you oil/gas any more, give us back the money'?
Fat chance!

(There's nothing I loathe as much as self-confessed socialists who get everybody to cut back on everything - but rake the money in for themselves once they leave office. Tony Blair did just that, like schoeder ...)

355 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:55:36am

re: #340 MandyManners

Something tells me you would have been all over this John McCain.

356 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:55:42am

re: #293 Spiny Norman

Given those three, I would place my money on being completely in the tank. Legally binding documents signed to bring about silence of newsworthy information shouldn't be a roadblock to organizations that have very little hesitation publishing classified information on legal intel and surveillance programs that proved very effective in fighting terrorism in order to embarass the Administration they loath and damage the ability of the country to fight.

I was aware that he signed a limited release, and thought the AP was also included, but that there were still significant gaps in the data provided those 'news' organizations.

It's telling that the attacks against Corsi today are the same vague words as used in 2004. One would think that PDF's of the records on the web / pictures on the print pages would be more effective of a rebuttal.

But then, there's the same lack of substance in those rebuttals as in Obamamessiah's (Press Bloviations Upon Him) 'Change' mantra.

357 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:55:47am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

Russian propaganda on Fox.....
FOX News Rudely Cuts-Off Anti-Georgian Girl On Live T.V.

rudely cutted off

I'm trying hard not to laugh.

358 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:55:52am
359 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:08am

Japan's imposition of non-aggressive action is now self-imposed. it is a huge political issue and playing with it can get people unelected in a jiffy. The deprivations of WWII and the post war years, empty of young males weighs heavy on the society.
Japan has a very capable military. it's navy and submarine forces are excellent. It could nuclearize in 3 weeks, by it's own estimate. The USA has for the last 2 decades asked it to participate more in US efforts, but Japan limits itself to support, money, and humanitarian aid. Nevertheless it has proven itself to be among the best friends of the USA.

360 quickjustice  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:12am

re: #281 RememberSekhmet?

Busier than a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest! ;-)

361 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:13am

re: #319 Kenneth

Yeah, but which one would you let eat crackers in your bed?

John McCain hands down. HRH Barack Obama is one of those "memememe" self centered types that would do his thing for 2 minutes and roll over.

362 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:19am

Question, what does the HRH before obama's name mean?

363 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:19am

re: #345 buzzsawmonkey

YUP, great research! Funny thing was, with all the flip flopping in the interests of Mother Russia, the CPUSA totally borked its chances with the American electorate, even before the Cold War.

364 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:27am

re: #347 Kosh's Shadow

Don't forget the Priory of Sion.

And the Grey aliens.

And, the Royal Family are shape-shifters!

365 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:28am

re: #344 big steve


I'm staying away for you... dangerous dude!

366 RedDish  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:30am

re: #355 Kenneth

Hmmmm. Love a man in a flight suit!

367 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:56:49am

re: #347 Kosh's Shadow

Don't forget the Priory of Sion.

And the Grey aliens.

And it all takes place in Area 51.

368 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:09am

re: #364 MandyManners

And, the Royal Family are shape-shifters!

Shape shifting LIZARDS!

369 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:09am

Sen. McCain knew about Putin a long time ago.

370 lifeofthemind  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:13am

re: #171 Kosh's Shadow

Nuclear-capable bombers in Cuba would be a waste of bombers. We could shoot them down before they got anywhere near us; it would cost, keeping interceptors in the air, but they'd never get within range.

However, missiles would be a problem.

THe Democrats still get mileage from the story of how tough Jack Kennedy won the Cuban Missile Crisis. Problem is we didn't win. THe Russians pulled out the ground based missiles from Cuba and the US pulled the ground based Jupiter missiles from Turkey. Kruschev got retired but survived. Which is a first and one of two with Gorbachev for a Soviet leader.

The problem is that the Russians got to take an SSBN and tie it to the pier in Cuba on a "port visit." The net result remained Soviet ballistic missiles in plain sight with perfect above ground communications to Moscow and less than 10 minutes of flight time to their targets.

371 Hard Right  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:21am

re: #318 quickjustice

Corsi's book is number 1 on the NY Times bestseller list, meaning it has critical mass. It must be killing Obama.

When you stick a pig , he squeals. Obama is squealing like . . .

A platypus?
///

372 RTLM  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:22am

Yes, Corsi is a 9/11 nut job. 1:00 in.

373 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:24am

re: #362 Tarkus289

His Royal Highness

374 Athos  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:57:52am

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If the old SNL crew was still on, and Gilda Radner still with us, I can envision an Emily Latella commentary substituting 'Build a Bear' stores for Bilderburger......

"Nevermind'.

375 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:04am

re: #173 Dustoff-507
Sorry my friend - just not in the mood for joking about this - I really, truly believe Putin has lost it.
Seriously.

And I'm just tired of all the folks who are now -again- second guessing the only President we have now or will have until January 20, 2009 and providing fodder for the Lefties and their friends.
And yet the MSM say NOTHING about Obama's not stepping up to the plate.
I see us at war again - cold for now, hopefully never hot - and am old fashioned enough to think that the oppostion party and it's presumptive nominee ought to be stepping up to the plate and supporting the President vs Russia but instead have turned the world upside down and say we INVITED this on ourselves.

376 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:17am

re: #361 galloping granny

You speak from bitter experience...

377 vapig  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:18am

re: #361 galloping granny

John McCain hands down. HRH Barack Obama is one of those "memememe" self centered types that would do his thing for 2 minutes and roll over.

2 minutes? I think you're overestimating him........

378 Pvt Bin Jammin  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:35am

re: #262 MandyManners

Regarding Milan? I really don't know other than the fact that I grew up within two miles of a similar, larger plant. We were always under the impression that we were a target but now I would think that other targets such as transportation hubs, etc., might be higher priority. Who knows.

379 Tarkus289  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:42am

re: #373 big steve

Thanks...

380 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:46am

re: #375 realwest

What he said. Double.

381 Spiny Norman  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:52am

re: #256 opnion

This is slightly off topic , but at least ties in to Barry.
FNC had Jerome Corsi on this morning promoting his book 'Obama Nation". Corsi has isuues, not the least of which, he is a troother on 9/11.

To me though the isuue is free speech. No surprise, he is getting death threats. So many Obama supporters are angry, addled, applicants for victimhood. Here is the kicker though, Kos posted his address & is encouraging his minions to leave their mothers basement & go harass the Corsi family.

The Obama campaign has launched into ad hominem attacks rather than refute his assertions. Their most serious attack on the facts is that he got the date of the Obama wedding wrong!

Fucked up as that is, I doubt any Koslings would leave their basements to do anything that suspiciously resembles work, unless somebody offered free Cheetos and Red Bull.

382 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:56am

re: #359 pat

Japan's imposition of non-aggressive action is now self-imposed. it is a huge political issue and playing with it can get people unelected in a jiffy. The deprivations of WWII and the post war years, empty of young males weighs heavy on the society.
Japan has a very capable military. it's navy and submarine forces are excellent. It could nuclearize in 3 weeks, by it's own estimate. The USA has for the last 2 decades asked it to participate more in US efforts, but Japan limits itself to support, money, and humanitarian aid. Nevertheless it has proven itself to be among the best friends of the USA.

And do remember that their non-military military has indeed participated in Iraq - both on the ground and providing refueling facilities for the navy.

383 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:58:59am

re: #357 MandyManners

Yeah, I think they were given more time than they should have been given. I'm pissed Fox gave them the forum at all.

384 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:15am

re: #377 vapig

2 minutes? I think you're overestimating him........

As my wife says, the longer the speach the shorter the......

385 willowone  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:25am

re: #337 Killgore Trout
they are teaching the children so young these days

386 kuffar  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:30am

I actually want Obama in power...

So he and his party can be unveiled as the most corrupt, idiotic, naive, lying, cabal of fellow-traveler 'progressives' and serve as a final nail in the coffin.

Imagine the Munich Appeasement he'd be responsible for. It might actually give Munich to Russia.

Then perhaps when war breaks out and after all this liberal appeasement liberalism in America will be ultimately defeated.

387 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:32am

re: #370 lifeofthemind

We would have one if Kennedy had not pulled the air support from the Cuban exiles at the Bay of Pigs. There would have been no missile crisis because Castro would have been deposed.

388 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:50am

re: #329 Dustoff-507

Naaaa, don't do that. I have a house with a huge garage and two large storage areas and guess what... full of JUNK. )-:

Eeeeeeek!

389 Sunlight  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 10:59:53am

re: #1 Honorary Yooper

Two words:

HOLY SHIT!

My first thought was BULL SHIT instead...
I keep trying to imagine our military freaking out like this if Mexico or Canada got defensive systems... so I say BS because I think they protesteth too much and that the defensive systems would put a crimp in their previously cooked up plans to resume their USSR bullyship.

390 Maximu§  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:00am

re: #351 maddogg

I am given to understand that the "German Army" is unionized, and therefore fully as effective as that implies.

OMG, no wonder they ran away from that firefight in Afghanistan....perhaps the shooting happened on a Union Schnitzel and Bier break.

391 Pyrocles  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:05am

NPR went out of their way this morning to interview a Media Matters spokesman, who described a huge Conservative conspiracy to get right-wing books onto the market. He said that corporations buy tons of copies of Conservative books to inflate sales and artificially get their books onto the best-seller lists. Also said that the president of Simon & Schuster is a GOP operative.

re: #318 quickjustice

Corsi's book is number 1 on the NY Times bestseller list, meaning it has critical mass. It must be killing Obama.

When you stick a pig , he squeals. Obama is squealing like . . .

392 Sol Roth  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:06am

re: #257 jcm

We have to forget all quantum physics etc..... the nuclear chain reaction is a part of nature. Go look at teh sun (carefully) if you don't believe.

Fusion bombs need some fission event to get them started if I'm not mistaken?


If we, uh like dude, like, like, like, mine out all the uranium and send it to the sun dude (bonghit, bonghit, bonghit, ear dude, exhale) then there'd be like, you know, none of those things we were talking about.

Dude, what were we talking about?

393 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:06am
394 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:11am

Looks like this may be affecting the polls...

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Gallup at a tie. Obama was up by 6 recently.

395 Spiny Norman  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:20am

re: #315 Ward Cleaver

Bretton Woods conference! PNAC! The Amero!

/uh, yeah

The Bohemian Grove!

396 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:23am

re: #381 Spiny Norman

Fucked up as that is, I doubt any Koslings would leave their basements to do anything that suspiciously resembles work, unless somebody offered free Cheetos and Red Bull.

What you dont realize it was in fact a cunning ploy to lure out Kossacks into an ambush.

397 pat  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:24am

The Jupiter was a liquid fuel crazy ass dangerous missile that we were going to shit can anyway.

398 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:24am

re: #362 Tarkus289

Question, what does the HRH before obama's name mean?

His Royal Highness. I refuse to do as some do and use the "president" word even in jest. America will never have a king, so HRH is safe on the path from my fingertips/lips to G_d's ears.

399 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:36am

re: #375 realwest


I agree buddy, but all you and I can do is way this game out.

For sure Ptin bit off far more than he can chew.

400 Dianna  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:46am

re: #386 kuffar

The only problem would be that war would lead to yet another expansion of government activity.

401 Josephine  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:48am

re: #334 galloping granny

That's good news, then; glad to hear it!

402 quickjustice  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:00:58am

re: #301 big steve

Putin learned hand-to-hand from the KGB, so it wouldn't be a fair fight. Head-to-head in combat aircraft-- McCain.

Obama with a gun, and Putin with a knife? In one minute, Putin would have both the gun and the knife.

403 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:01:19am

re: #372 RTLM

Yes, Corsi is a 9/11 nut job. 1:00 in.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

He's about as reliable as Debka.

404 lifeofthemind  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:01:26am

re: #291 Red Cloud

Doesn't Germany have some kind of self-defense clause similar to the Japanese following World War II, so that they can't initiate action except for self-defense?

Which is stupid, I might add - we really ought to especially let the Japanese off the leash. With their economy and history, they could potentially create a very resourceful military - one that would now be a potent ally.

The Americans are very popular throughout Asia because we are not the Japanese. Americans may be fat, boorish and over sexed but Koreans, Philippinos, Australians and even Chinese prefer the US Navy to the Japanese Army. Our problem is that the new generation may not remember that.

405 big steve  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:02:09am

re: #361 galloping granny

John McCain hands down. HRH Barack Obama is one of those "memememe" self centered types that would do his thing for 2 minutes and roll over.


Change!..........the sheets.

406 Dustoff-507  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:02:40am

re: #388 Josephine


It's a pain.. worse of all, my kids come by. (hey dad i have no more room for this, can you help me) Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

407 Spiny Norman  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:03:27am

re: #386 kuffar

I actually want Obama in power...

So he and his party can be unveiled as the most corrupt, idiotic, naive, lying, cabal of fellow-traveler 'progressives' and serve as a final nail in the coffin.

Ah, no. If Carter wasn't enough to convince everyone, Barry won't do it, either.

30 years on, we're still dealing with the products of Jimmah's knucklehead policies.

408 rightwinger3  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:03:27am

re: #375 realwest

Sorry my friend - just not in the mood for joking about this - I really, truly believe Putin has lost it.
Seriously.

And I'm just tired of all the folks who are now -again- second guessing the only President we have now or will have until January 20, 2009 and providing fodder for the Lefties and their friends.
And yet the MSM say NOTHING about Obama's not stepping up to the plate.
I see us at war again - cold for now, hopefully never hot - and am old fashioned enough to think that the oppostion party and it's presumptive nominee ought to be stepping up to the plate and supporting the President vs Russia but instead have turned the world upside down and say we INVITED this on ourselves.

realwest, right on the money, but nothing is different here really other than the fact that Truman, Kennedy, Johnson and hell I'll even say Carter are smarter about world affairs than the messiah even though he toured the world to "bolster his credentials". What a f'in joke.

409 Pyrocles  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:03:38am

Could you imagine what would happen if there was catastrophic terrorist attack soon after Obama and the Democrats abolished the Patriot Act? They'd never be in power again...

re: #386 kuffar

I actually want Obama in power...

So he and his party can be unveiled as the most corrupt, idiotic, naive, lying, cabal of fellow-traveler 'progressives' and serve as a final nail in the coffin.

Imagine the Munich Appeasement he'd be responsible for. It might actually give Munich to Russia.

Then perhaps when war breaks out and after all this liberal appeasement liberalism in America will be ultimately defeated.

410 Colonel Panik  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:03:50am

re: #372 RTLM

Yes, Corsi is a 9/11 nut job. 1:00 in.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Jeebus...that Youtube movie though looks like it was done by Obama supporters...I mean using Media Matters as a source?

I'm withholding judgement on Corsi until I know more details on his trooferism.

411 realwest  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:03am

re: #216 Tigger2005

Man...I know I've been participating in these discussions, but I just don't know if I can deal with it anymore. I have family near, but I live alone (with some pets), and I feel isolated and helpless as all this unfolds. There just isn't much I can do but hope the world doesn't blow up before we have a chance to elect McCain. I wish like hell we were acting more decisively right now. It's the relative inaction that scares me. Reagan was always DOING something, always keeping the Russians off balance. That could get scary too, but one thing was certain, the Russians were damn scared of Reagan, and took him seriously.


Boy do I know how you feel. The thing is I just can't believe Bush is doing NOTHING - I just think he's keeping quiet about it.

412 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:07am

re: #338 MandyManners

Bohemian Grove!

Bob Weir, Mickey Hart and Richard Nixon! It's more proof that the 5/8/77 Cornell "concert hoax" was a CIA mind-control experiment.

/Barry Birkenstock

413 galloping granny  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:23am

re: #375 realwest

Sorry my friend - just not in the mood for joking about this - I really, truly believe Putin has lost it.
Seriously.

And I'm just tired of all the folks who are now -again- second guessing the only President we have now or will have until January 20, 2009 and providing fodder for the Lefties and their friends.
And yet the MSM say NOTHING about Obama's not stepping up to the plate.
I see us at war again - cold for now, hopefully never hot - and am old fashioned enough to think that the oppostion party and it's presumptive nominee ought to be stepping up to the plate and supporting the President vs Russia but instead have turned the world upside down and say we INVITED this on ourselves.

I'm not worrying about this too much realwest. I'm sure that even the most unobservant of the American voting public are really starting to take notice now that we hear from John McCain on this issue every day and he is right on the money every day - and yet we hear nothing from HRH Obama because he is busy "body surfing" in Hawai'i. Its pretty darned apparent just who is taking care of business.

Having the press point it out any more than they do would just give Obama a cluebat.

414 godfrey  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:30am

Is anyone surprised that hard power beats soft power?

415 Truck Monkey  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:53am

re: #283 MandyManners

I don't think Georgia is a prelude to WWIII it is just an internal manhood contest.

Let's put Putin and Saakashvili in a cage.

UFC F*ck Yeah. I think that Saakashvili could kick the Putsters ass. He has that square boxer head.

416 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 15, 2008 11:04:55am

re: #291 Red Cloud

Doesn't Germany have some kind of self-defense clause similar to the Japanese following World War II, so that they can't initiate action except for self-defense?

Which is stupid, I might add - we really ought to especially let the Japanese off the leash. With their economy and history, they could potentially create a very resourceful military - one that would now be a potent ally.

Well - as Galloping Granny has pointed out above, both Japan and Germany have been very successfully 're-educated' about their horrid militaristic behaviour and general vileness in WWII.
Now while that was fully justified right after the war - its now become so entrenched that both nations have great difficulties getting back to their honourable traditions.
It also doesn't help, in the case of Germany, that any crime by Neo-Nazi groups is magnified right across the globe, and used as a sign that ll Germans are still Naazis.
This never happens when similar groups do the same stuff in other countries.
And - to my shame - I have to say that the Brits are first and foremost in general German-bashing.
So perhaps a change in attitude towards Germany at least might be in order ...