This should be very interesting.

Get the letterhead ready!

NATO meets, jaws a lot, and does nothing. Sounds as effective as the UN.

In a related development, the Democrat party is secretly huddling to figure out how can help their comrades in Moscow.

The 26 NATO foreign ministers will hold their emergency meeting at the Alliance headquarters in the Belgian capital on Tuesday where they are set to offer help and support to Tbilisi while sending a strong message to Moscow over its military intervention there.

Another strong message would be to add the Ukraine as a member. Since all you NATO countries are going to be together anyways- just go ahead and do it now.

Relevant, and on topic considering the players.

Caroline Glick

Iran's American protector

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

From Charles' article link...

"Russian troops and vehicles roamed freely around the strategically located central city of Gori, Russian forces appeared to blow up the runway at a military base in the western town of Senaki."

APPEARED?

The sooner we become energy self sufficient the sooner we can be finished with these tyrants.

Perhaps the Russians will tell us "All your NATO are belong to us" ?

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

"Tsk, tsk."

"Regrettable."

"Not cricket."

"Sacre bleu."

"Outrageous."

"Well, gentlemen, we have done all we can. Lunch?"

Sounds about right.

EU foreign ministers. Do they actually hold any sway?

Who said Bush isn't a coalition kind of guy? Go cowboy!

soon to be 27 foreign ministers

In Paris, the French foreign minister said it appeared "we are witnessing the start" of a Russian withdrawal, but warned France would call an emergency meeting of the European Council to talk about consequences for Russia if that was not the case

Do you get the feeling Putin laughs himself to sleep at night reading stuff like this?

re: #9 experiencedtraveller

The sooner we become energy self sufficient the sooner we can be finished with these tyrants.

Becoming energy independent will afford us to have a freer hand in dealing with tyrants, despots, and radical Islamists. Isolationism has never been a wise strategy.

While they're at it, maybe they can send some help to the Cleveland Browns.

time to make the ukraine and ga. into nato and increase nato military budjet.

this RINO hates the BEAR.

the isolationist libertarian barr said john mccain over stated the bear

We've got one on the "Russia Tightens the Noose" thread saying it's all our fault, we're surrounding the Russians and Chinese, and nuclear wars are bad things. Sometimes I really, really wonder about people in the West, how they survive with a jellyfish spine.

Envoy Dmitry Rogozin said Moscow had already withdrawn a request for a meeting of the NATO-Russia council, the formal forum for talks.

"We don't want to hear that (Mikheil) Saakashvili is a saint," he added, comparing the Georgian president's actions in the breakaway province of South Ossetia to the worst excesses of Hitler and Stalin.

Oh, fercryinoutloud! I'm really sick of hearing comparisons to hitler and now stalin. All it serves to do is diminish the barbarity those two men foisted on humanity. The russian rhetoric here is as completely out of line as their actions in Ossetia.

Drop a carrier Battlegroup into the black sea, and put an air-wing over Georgia. NATO was designed expressly for this situation but of course the Euro-weanies will back down and criticize the US for helping Georgia.....

re: #20 Sharmuta

Oh, fercryinoutloud! I'm really sick of hearing comparisons to hitler and now stalin. All it serves to do is diminish the barbarity those two men foisted on humanity. The russian rhetoric here is as completely out of line as their actions in Ossetia.

Strange seeing a Russian using Stalin as a comparison for barbarism.

re: #22 FurryOldGuyJeans

Strange seeing a Russian using Stalin as a comparison for barbarism.

He was a Georgian.

At least NATO has an "army" of sorts if they choose to in any particular situation.

Not like it's going to make any difference.

This will fall back on the shoulders of the US, as always.

And with the nation-wide, concerted Denial of Service attacks by Russia on Georgian servers, there is virtually NO blogging (read: Independent, real-world reporting of Russian atrocities!) coming out of Georgia!

re: #21 LoFlyer

Drop a carrier Battlegroup into the black sea, and put an air-wing over Georgia. NATO was designed expressly for this situation but of course the Euro-weanies will back down and criticize the US for helping Georgia.....

They will do that in public. In secret they will be congratulating the US for once again pulling their cookies out of the oven.

The 26 NATO foreign ministers will hold their emergency meeting at the Alliance headquarters in the Belgian capital on Tuesday where they are set to offer help and support to Tbilisi while sending a strong message to Moscow over its military intervention there

"That's not the NATO I knew"

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

From Charles' article link...

"Russian troops and vehicles roamed freely around the strategically located central city of Gori, Russian forces appeared to blow up the runway at a military base in the western town of Senaki."

APPEARED?

LOL

re: #21 LoFlyer

I don't think they will criticize the US on this issue but the NATO countries have become soft and weak. I don't think they are up to defending themselves anymore.

A link off Real Clear Politics -- don't recall which one, offhand, but it's one of this afternoon's headlines -- said that Angela Merkel of Germany told Georgia that if they want NATO membership, they've got it. Ralph Peters (NYP) thinks we should give the Georgians a few C-17 loads of Stingers and Javelins. Heh.

If they want to make the same offer to Ukraine, so much the better. I think Ukraine is going to go for the missile shield deal, too.

OT: Did someone at MSNBC piss off the Chinese? I just tried to open their web site (I only go there for the jigsaw puzzle), and got a "server error" message.

re: #30 Steffan

OT: Did someone at MSNBC piss off the Chinese? I just tried to open their web site (I only go there for the jigsaw puzzle), and got a "server error" message.

ping pong diplomacy not working?

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

From Charles' article link...

"Russian troops and vehicles roamed freely around the strategically located central city of Gori, Russian forces appeared to blow up the runway at a military base in the western town of Senaki."

APPEARED?

Well, maybe it was spontaneous combustion! Runways are notoriously unstable... it happens all the time!

/

this is a signal that Bush won't roll over and play dead; as John Mitchell said, "Watch what we do, not what we say."

re: #29 Killgore Trout

I don't think they will criticize the US on this issue but the NATO countries have become soft and weak. I don't think they are up to defending themselves anymore.

They love Palestine and hate the US and Israel. They are not just weak, they are stupid!

re: #15 Occasional Reader

Do you get the feeling Putin laughs himself to sleep at night reading stuff like this?

I think it might be his substitute for porn.

re: #23 Sharmuta

He was a Georgian.

Yes. but. He was a Georgian who cheerfully became a "Great Russia" nationalist.

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

From Charles' article link...

"Russian troops and vehicles roamed freely around the strategically located central city of Gori, Russian forces appeared to blow up the runway at a military base in the western town of Senaki."

APPEARED?

To be fair, it IS an emerging nation, so the runway MAY not have been like LaGuardia's to begin with !

/this moonbat stuff hurts my head

re: #29 Killgore Trout

I don't think they will criticize the US on this issue but the NATO countries have become soft and weak. I don't think they are up to defending themselves anymore.

I don't think they ever were up to defending themselves. Which is why we kept huge numbers of troops in Europe for decades after WWII.

Russia's envoy to NATO warned that "the quality of cooperation" between Moscow and the Alliance would suffer if NATO foreign ministers fail to reach a "responsible decision," when they meet Tuesday.

re: #29 Killgore Trout

I agree. It's gut-check time for Europe.

This is what I really resent about Putin , you know outside of being Putin. We are engaged in a war against worldwide Jihad & he takes this occasion to press Russian imperialism. The Jihadis would behead him as quick as Bush & he is distracting us.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

He was a Bolshevik first, a Bolshevik second and a Bolshevik third.

re: #38 galloping granny

I don't think they ever were up to defending themselves. Which is why we kept huge numbers of troops in Europe for decades after WWII.

...and even then, our boys had to deal with "yankee go home!"

Why can't we tell the rest of the world to just fuck off?

re: #42 Sharmuta

He was a Bolshevik first, a Bolshevik second and a Bolshevik third.

Bingo.

re: #21 LoFlyer

Drop a carrier Battlegroup into the black sea, and put an air-wing over Georgia. NATO was designed expressly for this situation but of course the Euro-weanies will back down and criticize the US for helping Georgia.....

I don't think the Turks will let us do that -- they denied passage of a hospital ship, USNS Comfort, through the Dardanelles. The stated mission of the ship was to anchor off the Georgian coast and tend to casualties of the fighting. Ankara said no.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

Yes. but. He was a Georgian who cheerfully became a "Great Russia" nationalist.

He was fracking psychopath who killed 40 million of his citizens, gave communism a bad reputation among sane human beings.....

re: #40 Noam Sayin'

I agree. It's gut-check time for Europe.

..and they have been checked in the gut. Currently, are doubled over gasping for air.

re: #40 Noam Sayin'

I agree. It's gut-check time for Europe.

I predict soft, yellow underbellies... no abs of steel on the continent.

"our long tern goal is not to have an adversarial relationship w/ russia but it can not be business as usual", said a senior US official in brussels.
well they are not quoting bolton there.
how pathetic to not take a real stand, JUST WORDS.
what great timing for russia to be going for the gold in taking what they want.

re: #45 Steffan

I don't think the Turks will let us do that -- they denied passage of a hospital ship, USNS Comfort, through the Dardanelles. The stated mission of the ship was to anchor off the Georgian coast and tend to casualties of the fighting. Ankara said no.

I had not heard that.

I posted this on the open thread this afternoon. For those who have just jumped onboard...

"Cross us and we will crush you, warns Medvedev"

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

FYI, the 26 nations of NATO

Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Czech Rep
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States

re: #46 LoFlyer

He was fracking psychopath who killed 40 million of his citizens, gave communism a bad reputation among sane human beings.....

ummm,,, when did it have a "good' reputation!?!?!?!

Dear NATO,

Send a sternly worded letter. It makes you feel relevant.

Signed,
UN

re: #23 Sharmuta

He was a Georgian.

By all I can find Dmitry Rogozin is Russian and the Russian Envoy to NATO. So I still am a bit surprised a Russian uses Stalin as an example of barbarism.

as much mouthing off and "condemning" will be done, im afraid georgia is lost.

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

I posted this on the open thread this afternoon. For those who have just jumped onboard...

"Cross us and we will crush you, warns Medvedev"

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Someone should tell him it's too late for that.

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

"We will bury you." - Nikita Kruschev.

re: #52 Silhouette

FYI, the 26 nations of NATO

Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Czech Rep
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States

iceland? lmao

re: #52 Silhouette

For shorthand, one can pretty much read that list

blah, blah, blah
United States

re: #58 dave in NC

"We will bury you." - Nikita Kruschev.

"ooopppss",, Mikhail Gobachev

re: #45 Steffan

I don't think the Turks will let us do that -- they denied passage of a hospital ship, USNS Comfort, through the Dardanelles. The stated mission of the ship was to anchor off the Georgian coast and tend to casualties of the fighting. Ankara said no.

There is a treaty called the Montreal convention that supposedly denies the Dardenalize straight (SP) to military shipping. Soviets have moving ships in out of the Med from black sea for ages though....

re: #58 dave in NC

"We will bury you." - Nikita Kruschev.

Crushing and burying go very much hand in hand in eastern europe.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

Yes. but. He was a Georgian who cheerfully became a "Great Russia" nationalist.

When does being born in Moscow make one a Georgian?

re: #46 LoFlyer

He was fracking psychopath who killed 40 million of his citizens, gave communism a bad reputation among sane human beings.....

Yes, he was that, too. But I don't agree that he "gave" communism its bad reputation; he really carried it out to its logical conclusion. Democide is built into the assumptions of communism.

Less looking at meetings and speeches, and more watching of action on the ground, would be excellent. We shall see...

re: #55 FurryOldGuyJeans

He's a Russian nationalists. Wonder who he hangs out with in Brussels....

My son Todd, who is on the Staff at Saddleback church, sent me
a letter from Dr. Rick Warren to all his staff to set some rumors and out-right lies to rest. I send it to you verbatim.

It is my intention to post this letter to other threads tomorrow as well.

To: Everyone - SVCC
Subject: Stupid Rumor/ and other thoughts



Dear Saddleback Staff,

We're being swamped with positive comments about the format of the forum, about both candidates, and about how people learned more about each of them than they knew before and actually seemed to appreciate both men more than before. If we can increase the level of civility and lower the level of "gotcha" partisanship in this election cycle, that will be a great thing. I was personally pleased with the way both men's personalities shown out and I wrote a personal congratulations to both men on the fine jobs they did. I was proud of both of them

However, it seems that somebody who didn't like the Forum is systematically calling media to raise questions about McCain possibly hearing part of the Forum. Of course McCain didn't hear anything. Both men agreed to the terms of the Forum and I trust both of them. They are questioning the integrity of McCain, the Secret Service, and our own security.

Actually, I'm afraid this rumor will hurt the Obama campaign, because if someone asks me, I'll have to say that I told Barack in advance about one of the questions, that I never got a chance to tell John McCain about because he wasn't on campus yet.

I did an interview with Dan from Beliefnet which felt pretty antagonistic. He charged "An anonymous source told me that John McCain was watching a monitor in his green room." Flat out Impossible! But Dan had called Tim Farley at XM radio and talked to Tim about this. Other media had been called too. Whoever is spreading this, is going to look like a fool when the truth gets out, and it may have repercussions. Of course, everyone is trying to force me to take sides, which I steadfastly refuse to do. But pray for me because this dishonest rumor angers me.

Here are some facts

1. There were Secret service staff and Saddleback staff with McCain with him thee, and there was no way McCain could have listened to anything without being seen. There were cameras on him when he arrived.

2. "When I said 'cone of silence' I was obviously being silly-the crowd laughed at the obvious metaphor reference to Get Smart. But Senator McCain was put in a green room in a DIFFERENT BUILDING without any contact.

3 Chuck Taylor, Saddleback staff member DISCONNECTED the TV from the source as part of creating a silent green room. If anyone had even tried to turn the TV in that room all they would have got was static!

The truth is , both candidates did an OUTSTANDING JOB at the Forum. They were both articulate, and not only did America get to hear their different views for America's future, but we got to see their God-given personalities (their SHAPE) in action.

I am overwhelmed by the incredible work of our staff team, the leadership of Erik, David, and so many others of you who played a vital role in pulling off the weekend. WOW! I thank God for you, for your service, for your talent, and for the great testimony it was to the world.

Today, I received word from the President of the nation of Georgia (which has been under attack by Russia). In near tears, he thanked Saddleback Church for mentioning his country under attack during the forum for the whole world to hear.

He had watched the Saddleback Civil Forum in his nation, and was so moved that their situation was mentioned, and he asked me to personally ask our church and our network of churches to pray for Georgia in this crisis.

Rick

Who the fuck let Iceland into NATO?

re: #5 Sharmuta

Another strong message would be to add the Ukraine as a member. Since all you NATO countries are going to be together anyways- just go ahead and do it now.

They need to fast track the Ukraine and Georgia. Since they were delayed because France and Germany were worried about irritating Russia, France and Germany need to go on the record NOW.

Treanor and Walsh versus the Brazilian women in beach volleyball... thank you, God.

re: #43 astronmr20

...and even then, our boys had to deal with "yankee go home!"

Why can't we tell the rest of the world to just fuck off?

If we are energy independent we can. Drill!

re: #64 FurryOldGuyJeans

I think OR was talking about Stalin.

re: #39 jorline

Russia's envoy to NATO warned that "the quality of cooperation" between Moscow and the Alliance would suffer if NATO foreign ministers fail to reach a "responsible decision," when they meet Tuesday.

Russian diplo-speak to English translation: Do as we say, or else.

Fuck you Ivan.

re: #53 sattv4u2

ummm,,, when did it have a "good' reputation!?!?!?!

Well actually the libs really like the idea. That's why I put in the "sane human beings" part....

re: #67 Sharmuta

He's a Russian nationalists. Wonder who he hangs out with in Brussels....

I guess being BORN in Moscow doesn't help then, eh?

re: #64 FurryOldGuyJeans

When does being born in Moscow make one a Georgian?

Huh? We're talking about Stalin. Who was born in Georgia.

re: #63 astronmr20

russians are like islamists - bluster and braggadocio. what have they won since Hitler invaded?

re: #45 Steffan

The Dardanelles is international waters. Having been on a few Freedom of Navigation ops through there, I doubt we would recognize Turkeys attempt to restrict navigation through international waters.

Law of the Sea and all that.

USNS Comfort Won't Go to Georgia

re: #77 Occasional Reader

Huh? We're talking about Stalin. Who was born in Georgia.

And here I was talking about Dmitry Rogozin.

re: #16 FurryOldGuyJeans

Becoming energy independent will afford us to have a freer hand in dealing with tyrants, despots, and radical Islamists. Isolationism has never been a wise strategy.

You are correct but it is they who will be isolated.

re: #70 Wendya

Germany is now in favor of admitting Georgia. I would think the Ukraine would be right behind.

re: #69 astronmr20

Who the fuck let Iceland into NATO?

Italy,,,, they didn't want to be the only country that began with an "I", and Iran and Iraq weren't viable !

re: #53 sattv4u2

ummm,,, when did it have a "good' reputation!?!?!?!

Just before , during, and after Wotld War11 Communism had lots of advocates in the U.S

re: #68 Dizzy26

Nice to read, but I think I think Mr. Warren is naively optimistic with this statement:

Whoever is spreading this, is going to look like a fool when the truth gets out,

Since when do the facts debunking a rumor ever stop or even slow the spread of the rumor, or make the true believers ashamed?

re: #69 astronmr20

Who the fuck let Iceland into NATO?

What's your problem with Iceland?

re: #50 galloping granny

re: #45 Steffan

I don't think the Turks will let us do that -- they denied passage of a hospital ship, USNS Comfort, through the Dardanelles. The stated mission of the ship was to anchor off the Georgian coast and tend to casualties of the fighting. Ankara said no.

I had not heard that.

Despite NATO membership, the Turks have sided with Russia, by all appearances.

re: #43 astronmr20

...and even then, our boys had to deal with "yankee go home!"

Why can't we tell the rest of the world to just fuck off?

Twice in slightly over two decades we were forced to go over there to clean up their messes. After the second trip, we said, "Piss on this," and stayed there to defuse anything else that came up. This actually more or less worked over the ensuing six decades.

The only thing we haven't done is to whack them on the nose when they insist on pissing on our leg. Something they have done far too often.

re: #78 dave in NC

russians are like islamists - bluster and braggadocio. what have they won since Hitler invaded?

Well, I guess they tore themselves to pieces, which is also an Islamic characteristic.

putin is KGB first, KGB second, and KGB last. the new czar could be fascist just as much as commie as long as he is czar.

re: #81 FurryOldGuyJeans

And here I was talking about Dmitry Rogozin.

Okay. And?

re: #80 JHW

USNS Comfort Won't Go to Georgia

The Hellespont can be a bit difficult to navigate. Weenie's.

re: #84 sattv4u2

Italy,,,, they didn't want to be the only country that began with an "I", and Iran and Iraq weren't viable !

May I nominate Israel!

re: #85 opnion

Just before , during, and after Wotld War11 Communism had lots of advocates in the U.S

I know that,,, that doesn't mean it ever had a "good" rep. hell, there's a US Communist Party still active TODAY ! !

europe, and to a lesser extent the UK amazes me. it seems such a sullen and depressed continent sometimes with it's PC bullshit. since the end of world war 2 theyve tried to convince themselves that the US wasnt needed in the wars and the reconstruction. all for the sake of enhancing their flagging national character. on one hand i can somewhat understand, but these days it doesn't pay to beat those drums so loudly when the bear is lurking in the woods. with that said...

why the hell is iceland in nato? lol i cant quit laughing about that.

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

The Hellespont can be a bit difficult to navigate. Weenie's.

Byron swam it.

re: #87 Occasional Reader

What's your problem with Iceland?

Why do they need NATO, and what can they do for NATO?

Remember, they get votes.

Do they have troops in Afghanistan?

Any troops at all?

re: #81 FurryOldGuyJeans

And here I was talking about Dmitry Rogozin.

Wasn't he the guy that invented that hair growing cream?

re: #50 galloping granny

I had not heard that.

It was in a news item over the weekend. Don't recall where I saw it.

re: #71 Occasional Reader

Treanor and Walsh versus the Brazilian women in beach volleyball... thank you, God.

Mr. Silhouette thanks you for the heads up.

re: #99 astronmr20

Why do they need NATO, and what can they do for NATO?
Remember, they get votes.

Do they have troops in Afghanistan?

Any troops at all?

ever see a map?

re: #95 sattv4u2

I know that,,, that doesn't mean it ever had a "good" rep. hell, there's a US Communist Party still active TODAY ! !

Yeah, but to their advocates , they had a good reputation

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

Wasn't he the guy that invented that hair growing cream?

uppity dingitty

re: #99 astronmr20

Why do they need NATO, and what can they do for NATO?

Strategic location?

re: #71 Occasional Reader

what channel?

re: #88 Spiny Norman

Despite NATO membership, the Turks have sided with Russia, by all appearances.

We should admit Georgia, and then send a NATO force through. If Turkey doesn't like it, they are out of NATO. We can let the Kurds join instead.
/not really to the last part - but it makes a nice threat to the Turks.

re: #104 opnion

Yeah, but to their advocates , they had a good reputation

hell ,,, to my mother ,, I have one !

re: #98 Silhouette

Byron swam it.

That poem is SO lame. IMHO.

re: #83 Sharmuta

Germany is now in favor of admitting Georgia. I would think the Ukraine would be right behind.

hope so.

re: #99 astronmr20

"what can they do for NATO?"

Mid-Atlantic sub-hunting aircraft can use Iceland as a large airbase.

re: #106 Silhouette

Strategic location?

I suppose.

Let's put a missile defense shield there, then!

re: #78 dave in NC

russians are like islamists - bluster and braggadocio. what have they won since Hitler invaded?

The Soviets produced an awesome military machine in WWII. Their efforts matched the US, but they absorbed a fantastic amount of casualties. With competent leadership the Soviets probably could of reduced casualties by fifty percent or more. Steam roller tactics are wasteful. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are among the best in the world. I have no doubts if this turns into a shooting war between Russia and the US, we will kick ass, like we always do with Soviet military tactics.

re: #99 astronmr20

Why do they need NATO, and what can they do for NATO?

Remember, they get votes.

Do they have troops in Afghanistan?

Any troops at all?

We need Iceland more than they need us:

Bases. Important, strategic military bases.

re: #112 jaunte

"what can they do for NATO?"

Mid-Atlantic sub-hunting aircraft can use Iceland as a large airbase.

Gotcha.

re: #115 Spiny Norman

We need Iceland more than they need us:

Bases. Important, strategic military bases.

I see.

astronmr20= egg on his face

re: #109 sattv4u2

hell ,,, to my mother ,, I have one !

And there ya go.

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

That poem is SO lame. IMHO.

I'd love to see Hellespont. To stand at such a pivotal location for 3000 years of history. From Xeres' pontoon bridge onward.

I don't why, but it fascinates me.

re: #53 sattv4u2

ummm,,, when did it have a "good' reputation!?!?!?!

When Warren Beatty's character in "Reds" was the real-life NYT correspondent from Moscow. IIRC, he got a Pulitzer for his whitewash job, too. I don't remember his name and don't particularly want to.

re: #114 LoFlyer

The Soviets produced an awesome military machine in WWII. Their efforts matched the US, but they absorbed a fantastic amount of casualties. With competent leadership the Soviets probably could of reduced casualties by fifty percent or more. Steam roller tactics are wasteful. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are among the best in the world. I have no doubts if this turns into a shooting war between Russia and the US, we will kick ass, like we always do with Soviet military tactics.

their tactics havent changed too much from ww2. shoot everything up without cover, roll over things....bout sums it up.

re: #99 astronmr20

They were a base in WW2 to protect the North Atlantic convoy routes. They would be very useful if a similar situation arose again. Sea lanes and air bases, not troops, is their usefulness.

re: #73 Sharmuta

I think OR was talking about Stalin.

That's what happens when you quote the wrong person. I poked #36 instead of poking #23. I still find it strange that someone who is an unreconstructed Soviet Communist using Stalin as an example of barbarism, regardless of the fact that Stalin was a Georgian.

re: #117 astronmr20

I see.

astronmr20= egg on his face

Are they scrambled or over easy?

;^)

re: #96 str8outtamonongahela

Don't we have an air base in Iceland? Or didn't we once have one?
Or maybe I'm thinking of an air bag.
Or an air conditioner.

re: #125 Spiny Norman

Are they scrambled or over easy?

;^)

the eggs ,,, or his face ?

re: #102 Silhouette

amoung other things being up i might guess.

re: #126 wolfie

Don't we have an air base in Iceland? Or didn't we once have one?
Or maybe I'm thinking of an air bag.
Or an air conditioner.

airhead?

re: #126 wolfie

not sure really. if strategic locale is the reason, i'm all for it. rah rah iceland!

re: #92 Occasional Reader

Okay. And?

See my #123.

re: #113 astronmr20

I suppose.

Let's put a missile defense shield there, then!

More than that. Ports for submarines and surface vessels, great location to block traffic from coming in the back door, and of course, listening and watching stations of every make and model.

re: #126 wolfie

Don't we have an air base in Iceland? Or didn't we once have one?
Or maybe I'm thinking of an air bag.
Or an air conditioner.

I think that an American guy used to own a bar there.

re: #114 LoFlyer

The Soviets produced an awesome military machine in WWII. Their efforts matched the US, but they absorbed a fantastic amount of casualties. With competent leadership the Soviets probably could of reduced casualties by fifty percent or more. Steam roller tactics are wasteful. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are among the best in the world. I have no doubts if this turns into a shooting war between Russia and the US, we will kick ass, like we always do with Soviet military tactics.

The other thing to note is that most of Russia's military might in WWII really came from America via the Lend-lease program.

Keflavik:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Hitchens antagonizes the left once again: Georgia isn't Kosovo

Germany offers support for Georgia's NATO bid

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is offering strong support for Georgia, saying the country is on track to become a member of NATO.

Merkel flew to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi on Sunday, two days after she met with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

Let's hope other parties in europe can pull their heads out of their asses like the Germans.

re: #59 str8outtamonongahela

iceland? lmao

Iceland doesn't have a military as such. They do, however, have the best strategic location in the world, and Keflavik Air Base has been home to a US Navy contingent (mostly ASW) since WWII.

re: #132 Silhouette

More than that. Ports for submarines and surface vessels, great location to block traffic from coming in the back door, and of course, listening and watching stations of every make and model.

not too mention cheap ice supply for all those diplomatic cocktail parties

re: #126 wolfie

Keflavik.

Vintage Olympics!

re: #137 Sharmuta

Germany offers support for Georgia's NATO bid

Let's hope other parties in europe can pull their heads out of their asses like the Germans.

Merkel can actually be quite surprising at times.

I'll actually be in germany in two weeks...

href="/showc/86/5726685" target="_blank">#86 Silhouette

Nice to read, but I think I think Mr. Warren is naively optimistic with this statement:

Since when do the facts debunking a rumor ever stop or even slow the spread of the rumor, or make the true believers ashamed?

/He's made mistakes before...a time or two. :-)

To anyone interested heres some more (just learning this link stuff. But it's about Larry Kings' interview, live tonight with Dr. Warren..{I'm sure he wouldn't mind the Mr. tag however} (If you would like, I can send a list of his accomplishment, achievement and contribution!)

[Link: www.ocregister.com...]

re: #106 Silhouette

Strategic location?

dingdingdingdingding

And it was even more strategic back in the 60s, when most planes couldn't fly trans-Atlantic without refueling.

Energy specifically oil imports cost us re: #115 Spiny Norman

We need Iceland more than they need us:

Bases. Important, strategic military bases.

Important military sea lanes...

re: #69 astronmr20

Who the fuck let Iceland into NATO?

Actually, it was the USA, who occupied the country during WWII to stop the Kriegsmarine grabbing it, and when NATO got formed it got lumped in for strategic reasons. I don't think they've actually *got* a military...

re: #126 wolfie

Don't we have an air base in Iceland? Or didn't we once have one?
Or maybe I'm thinking of an air bag.
Or an air conditioner.

Greenland, it's where they divert planes in suspected terror events. We also have missile defense systems at Ft. Greeley and in the Aleutians, coupled with Elmendorf and Eilson AFB's in Alaska.

re: #137 Sharmuta

Germany offers support for Georgia's NATO bid

Let's hope other parties in europe can pull their heads out of their asses like the Germans.

Germany is a tad bit closer to the front lines than France, so they would tend to be a bit more paranoid about the Bear. Plus France never had to contend with the Red Army on their soil.

re: #134 Thanos

The other thing to n
ote is that most of Russia's military might in WWII really came from America via the Lend-lease program.

More than anything Russia had the severe Winter. What part about Napolean didn't Hitler get?

re: #137 Sharmuta

Germany offers support for Georgia's NATO bid

Let's hope other parties in europe can pull their heads out of their asses like the Germans.

It was Germany that blocked the US proposal to fast track Georgia and Ukraine.

"The other thing to note is that most of Russia's military might in WWII really came from America via the Lend-lease program."

very true. they crossed out the "U" on the jeeps we sent them. the remaining "SA" would mean "soviet army" to their commanders....and well, it would instill pride among their troops. when our guys met theirs at the elbe, they were asked not to mention the munitions and supplies we gave to them, as it would "hurt" their honor.

war is hell.

On the day Russia attacked Georgia the US should have led the president/PM of every NATO member in a walk-out of the Olympics, towards an impromptu NATO summit. In addition to putting the appropriate gravity on the situation, that would have had the additional benefit of upstaging and wrecking the Olympics for China, which would have put China in the position of blaming Russia for wrecking their Olympics.

re: #88 Spiny Norman they seem to be having a problem internally with a saud takeover

re: #124 buzzsawmonkey

was that when the new york slime white washed the genocide in the Ukraine?

re: #115 Spiny Norman

We need Iceland more than they need us:

Bases. Important, strategic military bases.

But I thought all their base was belong to us?!

re: #150 karmic_inquisitor

It was Germany that blocked the US proposal to fast track Georgia and Ukraine.

France too.

re: #145 experiencedtraveller

The Gap

re: #150 karmic_inquisitor

It was Germany that blocked the US proposal to fast track Georgia and Ukraine.

That was before the Bear started moving West. Now they have a bit more incentive to rethink their earlier decision.

iceland is a great place to go if you want to plop it into a hot spring. i think the whole country heats w/ natural hot springs.
but the bread wasn't very good. like a loaf of saw dust.
life's a trade off.

re: #119 Silhouette

I'd love to see Hellespont. To stand at such a pivotal location for 3000 years of history. From Xeres' pontoon bridge onward.

I don't why, but it fascinates me.

One of the many starts and stops of playwriting, I started a script called "Traversing the Hellespont" sort of dealing with a modern day take on the poem. A yuppie, young a rich guy who can't get enough thrills from life, and his fiance who loves him simply for him, not his money or accomplishments.

He drags her to the Hellespont becuase he is going to swim it, to once again prove himself to himself and her.

Sort of a tragedy, never finished it.

You can always trust the communists...to be communists.

re: #146 Fenboy

Actually, it was the USA, who occupied the country during WWII to stop the Kriegsmarine grabbing it, and when NATO got formed it got lumped in for strategic reasons. I don't think they've actually *got* a military...

IIRC - the British invaded it and then quickly asked the US to occupy it, which we did prior to our actually joining the war.

Also, the Icelanders were a bit racist - they OK'd the US occupation on the condition that the occupiers were all white.

re: #149 opnion

More than anything Russia had the severe Winter. What part about Napolean didn't Hitler get?

if hitler would have listened to his generals, the russiand would have lost before winter i thinksssss.

re: #69 astronmr20

Who the fuck let Iceland into NATO?

Iceland has a long history, stretching back to at least WW II, of being a US/British ally. We've had ships stationed there, radar sites, air force bases (Keflavik AFB, now closed) ....

Not to mention the sheer geography of the thing. If we're going to have a North Atlantic Treaty Organization, sorta take a quick look at a map of the Atlantic Ocean and see where Iceland fits into the scheme of things ;-).

re: #157 Reno911

The Gap

Thank you.

re: #152 Luigi

On the day Russia attacked Georgia the US should have led the president/PM of every NATO member in a walk-out of the Olympics, towards an impromptu NATO summit. In addition to putting the appropriate gravity on the situation, that would have had the additional benefit of upstaging and wrecking the Olympics for China, which would have put China in the position of blaming Russia for wrecking their Olympics.

We have the option right now of announcing a boycott of the 2014 games in Sochi, which is a Russian Black Sea resort only 15 miles from the Georgian border, and where Putin has held court the last few days as he coordinated the treachery in Georgia.

re: #149 opnion

More than anything Russia had the severe Winter. What part about Napolean didn't Hitler get?

Severe winter shouldn't stop us, it's one reason we should restart the Jack Frost excercise every single year, with Nato Participants instead of just doing "Northern Edge".

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

We have the option right now of announcing a boycott of the 2014 games in Sochi,

We boycotted 1980. Russia is going to start thinking we have something against them.

/

womens beach volley ball hummmm

re: #168 buzzsawmonkey

No. John Reed was an independent journalist, who wrote Ten Days that Shook the World, about the 1917 Revolution. He died in Russia, and is buried in the Kremlin wall. That is who Warren Beatty portrayed. He was not a NY Times reporter.

The Times reporter who whitewashed Stalin's famine was Walter Duranty, who won a Pulitzer Prize.

I actually thought the movie "Reds" was a very fine flic, independent of my particular political views. And I didn't feel that it whitewashed Reed or his friends, you knew where they were coming from.

Women's soccer on in the WriterMom household...Brazil 4, Germany 1...

And then I see this and my head explodes.

re: #126 wolfie

Don't we have an air base in Iceland? Or didn't we once have one?
Or maybe I'm thinking of an air bag.
Or an air conditioner.

We do indeed have an airbase in Iceland - and at least during WWII had a naval base there too.

Iceland was also one end of an instance (or a few, in a way) of two NATO allies sorta kinda going to war against each other.

(The other example being Greece/Turkey, of course)

re: #171 yochanan

womens beach volley ball hummmm

I don't understand the big deal, it's played just like mens beach volleyball?

re: #169 Thanos

Severe winter shouldn't stop us, it's one reason we should restart the Jack Frost excercise every single year, with Nato Participants instead of just doing "Northern Edge".

That is not my point. We have technology, but in no way would I want our troops doing a ground assault in the Russian winter.

re: #150 karmic_inquisitor

It was Germany that blocked the US proposal to fast track Georgia and Ukraine.

Because Vlad the Poisoner threatened to cut off gas deliveries this winter if they didn't.

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

I actually thought the movie "Reds" was a very fine flic, independent of my particular political views. And I didn't feel that it whitewashed Reed or his friends, you knew where they were coming from.

I agree. I thought Beatty's portrayal of Reed's realization of his naivete was wrenching.

re: #15 Occasional Reader

Do you get the feeling Putin laughs himself to sleep at night reading stuff like this?

Putin is shivering in his boots at the thought of a strongly worded protest from
the European Council. Should the Russians fail to cooperate they will face catastrophic consequences in the form of having their invitation to the next Euro Council picnic withdrawn.

re: #175 Occasional Reader

Iceland was also one end of an instance (or a few, in a way) of two NATO allies sorta kinda going to war against each other.

(The other example being Greece/Turkey, of course)

You can never trust those fish...

Kick the Ruskies out of G8

The key thing about this move by Russia is the absolute energy stranglehold it will give them on Europe for both Oil and Gas. If they take Georgia, there aren't other pipeline routes that don't pass through Russia already.

The only way out would be for Europe to build a chunnel like pipeline under the Med.

re: #170 Silhouette

Ted Turner would just resuscitate the "Goodwill Games".

What a freaking commie, wonder who he's backing for POTUS?

haha strange hannity is going to mention roseannes blog. small world lately

re: #170 Silhouette

We boycotted 1980. Russia is going to start thinking we have something against them.

/

Yeah - interesting thing was that the UK and France didn't boycott. If the NATO nations sent word to the IOC to change the game site while they still can, they just might. Then we don't have to deprive the athletes. But we have to do it now rather than wait.

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

I actually thought the movie "Reds" was a very fine flic, independent of my particular political views. And I didn't feel that it whitewashed Reed or his friends, you knew where they were coming from.

I agree.Reed looked liked a fool.

re: #173 WriterMom

And then I see this and my head explodes.

IIRC France did something like that, too, in the 1980s. Didn't, ah, work out so well.

re: #173 WriterMom

Women's soccer on in the WriterMom household...Brazil 4, Germany 1...

And then I see this and my head explodes.

Complicit in the murder of others.

re: #183 Thanos

And russia's already got a deal with libya.

Good night all

Excuse me, but I thought Obama suggested that Georgia and Russia work this out. What happened? //

re: #182 winston06

Kick the Ruskies out of G8

Unless Putin changes his current attitude drastically, that WILL happen. Most (if not all) of the current G7 group are making those rumblings.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

I don't understand the big deal, it's played just like mens beach volleyball?

Um, yeah, but they're... women. See, that's the part I like, speaking for myself.

Okay, I'm rooting for our girls, but I gotta say, the Brazilians are hotter.

re: #192 kansas

Excuse me, but I thought Obama suggested that Georgia and Russia work this out. What happened? //

You are right. How dare they.

re: #170 Silhouette

Forget boycott. Demand the IOC revoke the award and give it to someone else. Heck, Mumbai could work, or maybe Brazil. Tokyo would work and it already has much of the infrastructure in place.

re: #192 kansas

Excuse me, but I thought Obama suggested that Georgia and Russia work this out. What happened? //

It turns out he's not actually the sitting President.

re: #114 LoFlyer

The Soviets produced an awesome military machine in WWII. Their efforts matched the US, but they absorbed a fantastic amount of casualties. With competent leadership the Soviets probably could of reduced casualties by fifty percent or more. Steam roller tactics are wasteful. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are among the best in the world. I have no doubts if this turns into a shooting war between Russia and the US, we will kick ass, like we always do with Soviet military tactics.

But don't forget that the political will of many of our politicians evaporates with the first American casualty.
The Russians can absorb thousands of casualties with less trouble than we will have with a dozen.

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Girls?

They're under 18 years of age?

re: #177 opnion

That is not my point. We have technology, but in no way would I want our troops doing a ground assault in the Russian winter.

No, but if they thought they could get away with it they will assault in the Ukraine, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia etc. Don't you think we better be prepared?

re: #187 opnion

I agree.Reed looked liked a fool.

I wouldn't say Reed was a fool. He was a product of his times, friends and the politics that surrounded him. I'm not defending his postitions, but if you have ever read any of his stuff, he was far from a fool.

re: #196 lawhawk

Forget boycott. Demand the IOC revoke the award and give it to someone else. Heck, Mumbai could work, or maybe Brazil. Tokyo would work and it already has much of the infrastructure in place.

Winter olympics in Mumbai?

re: #196 lawhawk

Forget boycott. Demand the IOC revoke the award and give it to someone else. Heck, Mumbai could work, or maybe Brazil. Tokyo would work and it already has much of the infrastructure in place.

Iceland!

re: #196 lawhawk

Forget boycott. Demand the IOC revoke the award and give it to someone else. Heck, Mumbai could work, or maybe Brazil. Tokyo would work and it already has much of the infrastructure in place.

I'd be happy with any of those 3.

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

I actually thought the movie "Reds" was a very fine flic, independent of my particular political views. And I didn't feel that it whitewashed Reed or his friends, you knew where they were coming from.

Even my liberal girlfriend school teacher got bored half-way through "Reds". We went over to her place where she seduced me. My first seduction, it was nice!

re: #188 Occasional Reader

The French would never admit to having made a tactical mistake. Their embrace of Islam and Muslim immigrants has changed France forever. They are just-just starting to get a taste of this with the yooots, the rechargeable hymen industry and debating citizenship for burkhaed women and their misogynistic husbands.

re: #198 cambronne

But don't forget that the political will of many of our politicians evaporates with the first American casualty.
The Russians can absorb thousands of casualties with less trouble than we will have with a dozen.

not these days. most of russia's military could break down into bandit-like militias if they do the suicidal charges. alot of disinterested youth in there.

re: #83 Sharmuta

Germany is now in favor of admitting Georgia. I would think the Ukraine would be right behind.

Too bad it took this to change their tune.

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Um, yeah, but they're... women. See, that's the part I like, speaking for myself.

Okay, I'm rooting for our girls, but I gotta say, the Brazilians are hotter.

I hope you realize that I was being "clever" or maybe not so clever.

re: #162 karmic_inquisitor

Also, the Icelanders were a bit racist - they OK'd the US occupation on the condition that the occupiers were all white.

We were in no position to cast stones on that matter at the time, of course.

re: #173 WriterMom

Women's soccer on in the WriterMom household...Brazil 4, Germany 1...

And then I see this and my head explodes.

WTF

re: #189 Silhouette

Feeding the croc-hoping it eats you last-or not at all, because you are so nice.

re: #144 Occasional Reader

dingdingdingdingding

And it was even more strategic back in the 60s, when most planes couldn't fly trans-Atlantic without refueling.

Dan Gallery commanded the air base and the Guadalcanal ASW carrier group that sortied out of the harbor there during WWII. He wrote about his experiences there, including the metal palm trees, in Eight Bells and U-505.

re: #74 Spiny Norman

Russian diplo-speak to English translation: Do as we say, or else.

Fuck you Ivan.

Bingo...who died lately and left the Russians in charge of the planet?

Damn lousy hall monitors.

re: #173 WriterMom

why should anything the euro trash do suprise you?

The Myth of the Authoritarian Model

A growing conventional wisdom holds that Vladimir Putin's attack on democracy has brought Russia stability and prosperity -- providing a new model of successful market authoritarianism. But the correlation between autocracy and economic growth is spurious. Autocracy's effects in Russia have in fact been negative. Whatever the gains under Putin, they would have been greater under a democratic regime.

I also added this to the spinoffs. I think fascism is alive and well in Mother Russia.

re: #215 yochanan

I am only suprised they are going on record.

re: #210 Occasional Reader

We were in no position to cast stones on that matter at the time, of course.

Agree. I don't think it bothered us at the time. I wil lok into it, but I think the restriction was in place up to the 70s (eg air force personnel at Iceland bases) but I could be wrong. I will look it up.

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

We have the option right now of announcing a boycott of the 2014 games in Sochi,

Anyone know how much financial aid the International Olympic Committee provides to the host country?

re: #205 LoFlyer

Even my liberal girlfriend school teacher got bored half-way through "Reds". We went over to her place where she seduced me. My first seduction, it was nice!

I have spent many pixels here on LGF touting the fine hours I have spent with female liberals, ex-hippies and anarchists. I understand.

Calm down, everyone.

Russia is pulling out. I have this on good authority, directly from Russia's newly hired Minister of Information.

So relax!

How long can that Russian war machine go before mechanical problems force them to burn their own hardware...and of course...blame the Georgian "under ground".

I've aleardy seen and read stories of breakdowns as they were just entering Georgian soil

War reveals Russia's military might and weakness ,

the conflict also revealed crucial weaknesses in Moscow's military preparedness — including faulty intelligence, a shortage of modern equipment and poor coordination

Some civilian casualties could probably have been avoided if Russia's equivalent to the U.S. GPS satellite navigation system was fully working. But the GLONASS system doesn't yet have the necessary number of satellites in orbit and, more importantly, portable navigation devices are still a rarity in the Russian military, according to officials.

Georgia said it downed at least 21 Russian warplanes, while Russia confirmed the loss of just four aircraft, including three Su-25 ground attack jets and a Tu-22 long-range bomber.

The conflicting claims couldn't be resolved, but even the loss of four aircraft is a heavy toll given the small size of Georgia's military.

Russia's deputy chief of General Staff, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said the Georgians shot down the planes from hidden locations outside military facilities using Soviet-built Tor and Buk anti-aircraft missiles supplied by Ukraine. He said Russian pilots grew more cautious as the campaign continued.

While Russia would have to expect to lose some low-flying ground attack jets, former Russian air force chief Anatoly Kornukov said the loss of the heavy bomber — which the military said was on a reconnaissance mission — should have been avoided.

"They sent the Tu-22 crew to their deaths thinking that the Georgian air defense would mount no resistance," Kornukov told Interfax news agency.

Moscow-based independent military analyst Alexander Golts said that sending the heavy bomber on a reconnaissance mission over Georgia was a mistake.

"Using the Tu-22 for a reconnaissance mission over Georgia was the same as using a microscope to drive nails," he said.

As hundreds of battered Russian armored vehicles wound through the mountain passes toward Tskhinvali, an AP reporter saw a number of tanks broken down in the road, blocking traffic; or being repaired, with soldiers working underneath them with wrenches; or even being towed by other vehicles.

Numerous armored vehicles also broke down en route to Chechnya 14 years ago.

After a hasty march to Tskhinvali, a Russian general in charge of the entire Russian military force in the region recklessly drove into the city in an advance convoy and was ambushed by Georgian forces. He suffered a leg wound.

Russia said 74 soldiers died and more than 170 were wounded in fighting, but Georgian officials claimed Russian losses were much higher.

The bombing campaign complicated Moscow's efforts to persuade the world that the motive behind its intervention was the protection of South Ossetian civilians.

While foreign political reaction has been divided — with the U.S. offering the harshest condemnation of Russia — most countries have at least criticized Russia's actions as disproportionate.

"The victorious Russia has found itself in complete isolation. That raises the question of whether it was a victory," Golts said.

Russia may also have made ousting Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili a key goal in its brief war. If so, it failed. After the fighting stopped, a pro-government rally in the Georgian capital drew tens of thousands of people.

"Georgia's military losses were higher than Russia's, but financial, political and moral losses of Russia were much higher than those of Georgia," Andrei Illarionov, former Kremlin adviser turned opposition activist, said in a commentary posted in the online Yezhednevny Zhurnal.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #218 karmic_inquisitor

Agree. I don't think it bothered us at the time.

I wonder how much it bothered the black Americans. "Oh darn, I can't be stationed in Iceland. Guess I'll have to settle for Pearl."

re: #199 Silhouette

Girls?

They're under 18 years of age?

Gosh, sorry, I meant to say "empowered wymyn".

So why do you girls get to call each other "girls", by the way?

re: #216 Sharmuta

The Myth of the Authoritarian Model

I also added this to the spinoffs. I think fascism is alive and well in Mother Russia.

The mafia runs half the country and Putin the other, and nothing stimulates an economy like a war!

re: #225 LoFlyer

The mafia runs half the country and Putin the other, and nothing stimulates an economy like a war!

And fascists know that well.

Iceland has long been considered a super prime duty station for the Marines. There are various reasons for that, not the least of which is the reputation of the local ladies for providing aid and comfort for lonely Marines.

And since pretty much everyone in Iceland speaks about six languages or more, communication is not a problem.

re: #18 yochanan

time to make the ukraine and ga. into nato and increase nato military budjet.

this RINO hates the BEAR.

the isolationist libertarian barr said john mccain over stated the bear

Which is why I'm no longer supporting Barr and am now supporting McCain.

re: #225 LoFlyer

The mafia runs half the country and Putin the other, and nothing stimulates an economy like a war!

And if it doesn't you always have someone to blame it on.

re: #227 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Iceland has long been considered a super prime duty station for the Marines. There are various reasons for that, not the least of which is the reputation of the local ladies for providing aid and comfort for lonely Marines.

And since pretty much everyone in Iceland speaks about six languages or more, communication is not a problem.

I've never had any problems communicating in that language.

re: #224 Occasional Reader

Gosh, sorry, I meant to say "empowered wymyn".

So why do you girls get to call each other "girls", by the way?

Worse double standard than that. I reserved the right to call males more than 5 years younger than me, boys.

re: #173 WriterMom

Women's soccer on in the WriterMom household...Brazil 4, Germany 1...

And then I see this and my head explodes.

I won't say this isn't true -- very well could be -- but it's not being reported in any places of repute. Sort of the WorldNetDaily crowd, from what I can tell.

Skeptical.

re: #231 Silhouette

Worse double standard than that. I reserved the right to call males more than 5 years younger than me, boys.

I am fine with that as long as you don't call me late to dinner.

Breaking News (particularly if it turns out to be true).

A poster at GOPachy.com has captured a image of a CNN page- that was minutes later removed- that says an e-mail mistake from the Obama camp has revealed his VP pick:

EVAN BAYH

[Link: www.gopachy.com...]

re: #232 Cognito

It's taken from a reputable Italian newspaper-not WorldNuts daily.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

I don't understand the big deal, it's played just like mens beach volleyball?

Yeah, but if they dressed like the men, who'd watch it?

Totally O/T, so forgive me,

But I keep reading from left-leaning posters in other blogs that members of the military ("troops," as the posters put it), are contributing far more to Obama than to McCain.

Is this true?

If so, I'm thinking it's higher-echelon commissioned officer types.

I don't know ANY fighting man or woman that supports Obama, or who has a surplus of money to throw at any campaign

What gives?

re: #234 Opinionated

Breaking News (particularly if it turns out to be true).

A poster at GOPachy.com has captured a image of a CNN page- that was minutes later removed- that says an e-mail mistake from the Obama camp has revealed his VP pick:

EVAN BAYH

[Link: www.gopachy.com...]

We can only hope...

"Obama/Bayh" just sort of sounds funny.

Interesting posts at the Snopes message board on the issue.

One comment stod out:

I was stationed at Keflavik, Iceland with the 57th Fighter Squadron from 1954-1955. We had no Blacks stationed on the base at that time. The Icelandic's very much were in control of the base and their police patrolled the base. They could and did invade our quonset huts on occasions to insure we did not have Icelandic girls in our quarters. You could not be in town after sunset. The rumor was there was a regulation that did not allow Blacks to be stationed on the base because that is what the Icelandic government decreed. I cannot be sure but I think I may have seen a copy of such a regulation or agreement & it was marked SECRET. We had Air Force, Army, and Navy stationed on the base. To not have a single Black would have been statistically improbable. Civilian airlines and military aircraft used this base as a refueling stop so there were Blacks on board some of these aircraft. But I never saw one leave the civilian terminal in my year there. I was transferred from the 437th FIS at Otis to Iceland. My Commander at Otis AFB was Major Chappie James. He later became a 4 star general and the highest ranking Black officer in the Air Force. That was a long time ago (53 years).

Based on the messages on the thread, many first hand accounts on blacks stationed there from the 70s onward.

re: #196 lawhawk

Forget boycott. Demand the IOC revoke the award and give it to someone else. Heck, Mumbai could work, or maybe Brazil. Tokyo would work and it already has much of the infrastructure in place.

I agree. Boycotting the games would have about as much an effect as showing up for the games and trashing the hotel rooms. Pointless. Yanking the games out of Russia would hurt them more.

re: #227 really grumpy big dog Johnson

And since pretty much everyone in Iceland speaks about six languages or more, communication is not a problem.

Which also speaks to its strategic location:

Crossroads.

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Um, yeah, but they're... women. See, that's the part I like, speaking for myself.

Okay, I'm rooting for our girls, but I gotta say, the Brazilians are hotter.

That and our girls are married. The Brazilians might not be.

re: #200 Thanos

Bingo.
If nothing else, it could be a signal that NATO is actually serious.

re: #239 astronmr20

Sounds like KUMBAYA.

re: #173 WriterMom

And then I see this and my head explodes.

So now there's two breeds of surrender monkey?

}:)     [That evolution thing really moves ... ]

re: #71 Occasional Reader

Treanor and Walsh versus the Brazilian women in beach volleyball... thank you, God.

Thank YOU for the heads up. US won. Niiiiice.

re: #221 Cognito

Exactly the person I was thinking of.

re: #223 Silhouette

I wonder how much it bothered the black Americans. "Oh darn, I can't be stationed in Iceland. Guess I'll have to settle for Pearl."

Some American servicemen got to be stationed here during World War II.

Now that's getting lucky.

The IOC gave the games to the butchers of Beijing. On what grounds, after a move like that, could that revoke the games from russia?

re: #227 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Iceland has long been considered a super prime duty station for the Marines. There are various reasons for that, not the least of which is the reputation of the local ladies for providing aid and comfort for lonely Marines.

And since pretty much everyone in Iceland speaks about six languages or more, communication is not a problem.

Makes it easier to provide aid and comfort, and I am all for that!

re: #237 astronmr20

Every time I have given money, I have SELF-REPORTED my job. Meaning donors could lie.

And a poster here reported a person they knew saw 60 military troops polled, with 4 for Obama, 1 for Hillary, and the remaining for McCain.

re: #235 WriterMom

It's taken from a reputable Italian newspaper-not WorldNuts daily.

But it's not really, is it? It's someone's interpretation, on a third party site, of what they say was published elsewhere.

I'll wait for something more solid.

re: #112 jaunte

"what can they do for NATO?"

Mid-Atlantic sub-hunting aircraft can HAVE used Iceland as an airbase for the entire cold war.

There fixed that for ya.

Hard Rock Cafe - Reykjavík -- Yeah Baby

re: #253 Cognito

I have a friend who speaks Italian, if the report is correct-it shouldn't be hard to verify.

re: #245 WriterMom

Sounds like KUMBAYA.

he sounds like the perfect pick...

"Bayh has voted against confirming United States Attorney General John Ashcroft, Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]