Read this earlier - excellent article. Way to go Mike!

Obama dissed in Georgia...they probably saw his speech in Germany.

I'm glad we're helping these people. If America doesn't stand up for Freedom, who will?

“The night they came close to Tbilisi,” she said, “Bush and McCain made their strongest speeches yet. The Russians seemed to back down. Bush and McCain have been very good for us.”

Guess this woman didn't get Gov. Kaine's memo that the Russians backed down in response to a proclamation from The One.

What does she know anyway, she's only an eye witness...

//////////

Nyet-Ba-Ma !

Sees, Salutes, Sleeps

Good to hear that we are still reputable in Georgia. Now we just need to give them some real support. Get them into NATO now!

I am so thankful for the support we have from the United States and from the West. The support is very important for us.” She tried hard to maintain her dignity and not cry in front of me, a foreign reporter in fresh clothes and carrying an expensive camera. “The West saved the capital. They were moving to Tbilisi. There was one night that was very dangerous. The Russian tanks were very close to the capital. I don’t know what happened, but they moved the tanks back.” And my translator, whose husband works for Georgia’s ministry of foreign affairs, made a similar guess that the West helped save the capital. “The night they came close to Tbilisi,” she said, “Bush and McCain made their strongest speeches yet. The Russians seemed to back down. Bush and McCain have been very good for us.”

Wow.

In the article Totten reports how the Russians would come to Georgian homes in S.O. and ask "where is the wine" and then would make the homeowner take a drink in case it was poisoned. Then they'd consume the wine and tell the homeowners to leave.

That our governments can't take "Life, Liberty and Property without due process of law" is such a simple, fragile yet valuable thing.

In Russia you don't taste the wine. The wine tastes you.

Just another one to file in the "Why Obama shouldn't be president." portfolio. It's getting really thick already.

He would have done zero for those people.

re: #3 Sharmuta

Didn't some (*spit*) candidate recently suggest that we were setting a bad example for the Russians?

I guess this means Georgia is a red state then.....

(no, the other Georgia Obama....)

The left in this country considers the promotion of freedom as an act of aggression.

Those aren't the Russian invaders I knew.

re: #7 BlueCanuck

Good to hear that we are still reputable in Georgia. Now we just need to give them some real support. Get them into NATO now!

I think we're doing that- our ships of supplies should be there soon, and we're talking about rebuilding their military. Hopefully, NATO membership is around the corner too, as is membership for the Ukraine. The russians can put that in their pipe and smoke it!

she said, “Bush and McCain made their strongest speeches yet. The Russians seemed to back down. Bush and McCain have been very good for us.”

More, please!

I know it took two months to move our first troops to tripwire positions during Gulf War I, but I really am hoping more is done for the Georgians than speeches and some hand-wringing.

I sure wish we were willing and able to do more to help Georgians in their hour of need. What we are doing is pathetically less than what we are capable of, and still more than a lot of those Euro-peon countries (d@amn their rulers!) who are a hell of a lot closer.

Every day it seems I hear of a poll saying that the country is very nearly evenly divided between McCain and bHo. With all that's known about O, I still can't believe that approximately half of our country is clinically insane.

I keep asking how can the demonrat supporters not see the obvious? A dangerous world is made more perilous by those who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Useful idiots, indeed.

You reckon the Russian army is stronger than the Revolutionary Guard?

McCain: “We are all Georgians now.”

Obama: "We are all Russians now."

Thank God I live in America.
I don't have to worry about another country, with tanks, approaching our capital.
For some reason, that womans story really touched me.

Perhaps because I am not used to anyone appreciating what the US has done for them.

re: #7 BlueCanuck

Good to hear that we are still reputable in Georgia. Now we just need to give them some real support. Get them into NATO now!

There are NATO ships with relief supplies for Georgia steaming for the Bosporus Strait right now. If the russian occupiers/looters of the port city of Poti decide to get in their way, things could get ugly in a real hurry.

re: #19 guzziguy

Every day it seems I hear of a poll saying that the country is very nearly evenly divided between McCain and bHo. With all that's known about O, I still can't believe that approximately half of our country is clinically insane.

I keep asking how can the demonrat supporters not see the obvious? A dangerous world is made more perilous by those who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Useful idiots, indeed.

A lot of those people don't get the same data you get, because they pretty much just watch the evening news and read the bumper stickers of the beat-up cars in front of them at the stoplight. So they aren't insane, they're uninformed.

Pleaseadd to that file, rgbdj #11 , BHussein's stupid, arrogant and immature remark about McCain's homes and how many he has/hasn't and the fact that John answered candidly "I'm not sure, I'll have to check on that"-- and Obama the middleschool amateur cut him down with a remark about "haves and have nots" and how such an answer by McCain just "shows how far removed McCain is from REAL people." (paraphrased)

BHussein is the amateur hour Marxist. His silly, giggly, middlefinger cheek scratch earlier in his campaign, his current immature behaviour all go to show what he's REALLY like.

Take away the mic, the teleprompter and the prewritten speeches and he's an embarassment to this nation. His OWN 1/2 brother lives in a corrigated hut in Africa in abject poverty while he wiles away his vacation in Hawaii on private beaches, and he who has amassed plenty of money out of book royalties and shadey deals with Rezko wants to go at it with McCain about how much private property he owns?

A complete moron.

re: #23 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Yeah I heard about the hospital ships finally been given permission by Turkey. I just wish that we could given more substantial aid in the first place.

/if wishes were horses. . . . . . . .

re: #14 Cartman Hey my friend, never got your reply to my e-mail (posted on the prior thread)!

And Obama, in his humility used to confront evil, would be effective?

No Way.

Not impressed by Obama

re: #24 cliffster

A lot of those people don't get the same data you get, because they pretty much just watch the evening news and read the bumper stickers of the beat-up cars in front of them at the stoplight. So they aren't insane, they're uninformed.

You may be right. Probably are. Willfully ignorant doesn't make me feel much better though.

re: #22 Typicalwhitey
amen. good words on which to ponder as I toddle off to sleep. ty.

re: #11 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Just another one to file in the "Why Obama shouldn't be president." portfolio. It's getting really thick already.

He would have done zero for those people.

He would've preached to them about being a good example for other nations.

re: #12 Syrah

I can hardly refrain from cursing .....

I add my *spit*

re: #16 Sharmuta

I think we're doing that- our ships of supplies should be there soon, and we're talking about rebuilding their military. Hopefully, NATO membership is around the corner too, as is membership for the Ukraine. The russians can put that in their pipe and smoke it!

Turkey's closed the straits.

Every school here in Tbilisi is jammed with civilians who fled aerial bombardment and shootings by the Russian military—or massacres, looting, and arson by irregular Cossack paramilitary units swarming across the border.

Sounds like any other third world nation's military. Nothing but thugs.

re: #27 realwest

Sorry, R-Dubs. It is stuck in the pipeline. My ISP has been having significant mail server problems as of late.

re: #17 Dianna

More, please!

I know it took two months to move our first troops to tripwire positions during Gulf War I, but I really am hoping more is done for the Georgians than speeches and some hand-wringing.

I think much will be done, but it won't be in the form of anything that would put US combat troops in a position of direct conflict with the USSR Russians.

There will certainly be more "humanitarian" aid, and I would expect to see more "asymmetric" actions, like we've seen with Poland, to take the pressure off the Georgians by distracting the Soviets Russians with more serious concerns.

Towards that end I would not be at all surprised to see an attempt at re-kindling the old Sino-Soviet Rift. It would go a long way towards relieving the strain on Georgia and would help check a number of problems associated with a resurgent Russia (as well as an ascending China).

Russia might want to think about what it might be like occupying a Nation and giving the USA a chance to wage a quiet war by proxy by supplying an insurgency with some hi tech weapons. They want no part of that scenario. They still remember all those helicopters getting shot down by guys on horseback in Afghanistan shooting Stinger missiles. And that was what, like 25 years ago. Imagine what they might hand out these days.

re: #20 cliffster The Russian army may be stronger, but from an Air Superiority pov, they ain't much better.
And he who controls the air, controls the war.
Always.

USA Men win Gold in Beach Volleyball!

Bush and McCain have been very good for us

What, no love for the Lightworker ?

re: #33 MandyManners

Turkey's closed the straits.

Sez who? Not according to this (posted 6 minutes ago):

In a move sure to heighten tensions, a U.S. Navy guided missile destroyer loaded with humanitarian supplies headed toward Georgia through Turkey's straits between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. It was the first of three U.S. warships carrying blankets, hygiene kits and baby food to Georgia.

A guided missile destroyer carrying humanitarian supplies... yeah, I'd say there's a bit of a message there.

re: #39 musicman

USA Men win Gold in Beach Volleyball!

You were watching men's beach volleyball?

Fag.

/kidding!

re: #23 really grumpy big dog Johnson Hey there really grumpy! How are you doing my friend?
Um, last I'd heard, Turkey wasn't going to allow US Navy ships throught the Straits - have you heard anything later than that?
Cause if we could get through, that'd be it for Russia in Georgia.

re: #33 MandyManners

Turkey's closed the straits.

[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

Turkey allows U.S. ships to take aid to Georgia
21 Aug 2008 09:02:26 GMT
Source: Reuters
ANKARA, Aug 21 (Reuters) - NATO-member Turkey has authorised three U.S. ships to sail through the Turkish straits into the Black Sea to carry humanitarian aid to Georgia, U.S. and Turkish officials said on Thursday.

Off again - on again?

re: #12 Syrah

Didn't some (*spit*) candidate recently suggest that we were setting a bad example for the Russians?

It should be no surprise that a marxist would be sympathetic to commies. Besides, for commies, everything is above the pay grade.

re: #33 MandyManners

Turkey's closed the straits.

No- I posted it this morning- Turkey's had a change of heart.

My daughter loves volleyball and hopes to be able to go to college on a volleyball scholarship.

re: #37 Mich-again

Russia might want to think about what it might be like occupying a Nation and giving the USA a chance to wage a quiet war by proxy by supplying an insurgency with some hi tech weapons. They want no part of that scenario. They still remember all those helicopters getting shot down by guys on horseback in Afghanistan shooting Stinger missiles. And that was what, like 25 years ago. Imagine what they might hand out these days.

We're not talking about the .22's being sent into Iraq from Syria..

re: #18 FurryOldGuyJeans

I sure wish we were willing and able to do more to help Georgians in their hour of need. What we are doing is pathetically less than what we are capable of, and still more than a lot of those Euro-peon countries (d@amn their rulers!) who are a hell of a lot closer.

I'll repeat the description of an editorial cartoon I'd like to see. Given how much fuel Europe gets from Russia, the cartoon would show Europeans warming themselves by the fires of a burning Georgia.

re: #47 musicman

that's very cool.....

So, is Rush right, have the Olympics been chickified?

re: #41 Occasional Reader

A guided missile destroyer carrying humanitarian supplies... yeah, I'd say there's a bit of a message there.

Yep. Gunboat diplomacy works.

re: #46 Sharmuta

No- I posted it this morning- Turkey's had a change of heart.

That seems VERY significant to me. Seems the Turks have decided who the proverbial "strong horse" in this one is?

re: #41 Occasional Reader

A guided missile destroyer carrying humanitarian supplies... yeah, I'd say there's a bit of a message there.

I found this.....

But he pointed out that no U.S. Navy hospital ships would be involved in the humanitarian mission following reported plans for two such vessels -- the Comfort and the Mercy -- to sail through Turkish waters to Georgia.

The two hospital ships tonnage exceeded the limits set by the 1936 Montreux Convention, which governs international traffic through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits. Under the Convention, the total weight of the warships that countries not bordering the Black Sea can deploy was limited to 45,000 tons.

re: #39 musicman

USA Men win Gold in Beach Volleyball!

The guys play volleyball too? Huh. Who knew?

/

re: #51 Archimedes

So, is Rush right, have the Olympics been chickified?

Yep

re: #41 Occasional Reader

A guided missile destroyer carrying humanitarian supplies... yeah, I'd say there's a bit of a message there.

Sounds like a variant of TR's Big Stick. I like it.

Oh, I need to sleep. But I can't yet. So here I am.

re: #54 jcm

That must have been one hell of a quick transfer of supplies to the smaller vessel then. Just call it good training.

re: #41 Occasional Reader

A. The Bosporus and Dardanelles are international waterways.

B. Turkey could not close them, even if she wanted to.

C. Any suggestions that we have to have Turkey's "permission to enter the Black Sea is ill informed.

re: #41 Occasional Reader Hey O.R. - that is good news! But, iirc, when Turkey closed the straits they closed 'em to Aircraft Carriers - which actually COULD provide a lot more humanitarian relief; iirc, each nuclear Carrier has something like 6 operating rooms and the equivalent of a 200 bed hospital, and can make Fresh water for 5,000 people a day over and above it's own needs.
Not to mention those Superhornet F-16J's!

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Oh, I need to sleep. But I can't yet. So here I am.

"The best cure for insomnia is to get lots of sleep"
--Yogi Berra

re: #51 Archimedes

So, is Rush right, have the Olympics been chickified?

Sex in the Citified.

I am starting to think that Russia is getting its ass kicked. Here is a story from Pravda about the requirements for surrender that Russia is demanding; They sort of sound like pleas for respite;......

“The first principle – not to use force. The second – to definitively stop all military actions. The third – to provide free access to humanitarian aid. The fourth – Georgia’s armed forces must return to the places of their permanent deployment. The fifth – Russia’s armed forces will be withdrawn to the positions preceding the beginning of the military actions. The sixth – the start of the international discussion of issues of the future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia by means of guaranteeing their solid security,” Medvedev said.

When asked why Russia decided to halt military actions in S. Ossetia today, Medvedev said: “The operation, which the Russian forces were conducting, has brought its results. That is why we have ended it.”

“It was supposed to be done today, not yesterday or tomorrow. We herewith made a temporal decision to cease fire until the problem is entirely solved within the framework of the principles which we have just named,” the Russian president said

re: #54 jcm

Okay... if you guys insist, we won't send our hospital ship, we'll send a guided missile destroyer instead...

re: #44 Bobibutu

[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

Turkey allows U.S. ships to take aid to Georgia
21 Aug 2008 09:02:26 GMT
Source: Reuters
ANKARA, Aug 21 (Reuters) - NATO-member Turkey has authorised three U.S. ships to sail through the Turkish straits into the Black Sea to carry humanitarian aid to Georgia, U.S. and Turkish officials said on Thursday.

Off again - on again?

Good.

re: #46 Sharmuta

No- I posted it this morning- Turkey's had a change of heart.

I wonder why.

My eyes are heavy. Good night, Lizards!

re: #61 realwest

Not to mention those Superhornet F-16J's!

Those WHAT?!

realwest... don't make me whack you on the knuckles with this here ruler.

re: #54 jcm

The Comfort and Mercy are not actual warships.

I have watched a total of 45 minutes of Olympics coverage.
I hate NBC.
I hate that they can't just show the sports. Everything is a f@#$&ing human interest story.

Glad the americans are kicking ass in just about everything though

re: #21 docremulac

McCain: “We are all Georgians now.”

Obama: "We are all Russians now. And I for one welome our new Russian Overlords."

Fixed.

re: #56 Cartman

Yep

I don't watch sports much any more, so I haven't watched any of the events, but I do remember one thing about the Olympics, there are endless stories about the lives of the athletes, and how difficult things have been on the road to the games. I don't mind some of that, but at the end of the day I just want to see the competition.

re: #52 American Soldier

Yep. Gunboat diplomacy works.

To bad bad no Battlewagon are available to troll the coast. I know they're anachronistic. But something about a a big ship with big guns in view has a impact that a carrier over the horizon just doen't have (and yes the carrier is far more efficent).

You've got to admit, this is impressive.

re: #33 MandyManners

Turkey's closed the straits.

Turkey reconsidered, no doubt under extreme pressure. Not only have UN hospital ships gone through, two US Navy ships and a Coast Guard cutter are headed to Poti as we speak.

The Russians seemed to back down. Bush and McCain have been very good for us.”

Right On, now if we can only free these poor people.

re: #60 Reno911 Uh, no you might want to check wiki for the 1936 Montreux Convention.

re: #61 realwest

Hey O.R. - that is good news! But, iirc, when Turkey closed the straits they closed 'em to Aircraft Carriers - which actually COULD provide a lot more humanitarian relief; iirc, each nuclear Carrier has something like 6 operating rooms and the equivalent of a 200 bed hospital, and can make Fresh water for 5,000 people a day over and above it's own needs.
Not to mention those Superhornet F-16J's!

Psst RW -- -18E/F.

re: #54 jcm

More ...
[Link: blog.wired.com...]

U.S. Warships Run the Gauntlet with Georgia Aid (Updated) ...

Update 14:33 EST: Uh-oh: "Russian forces took up positions Thursday at the entrance to Georgia's main Black Sea port city of Poti, excavating trenches, setting up mortars and blocking a key bridge with armored personnel carriers and trucks," the AP reports.

See ya Mandy..... :)

re: #74 jcm

To bad bad no Battlewagon are available to troll the coast. I know they're anachronistic. But something about a a big ship with big guns in view has a impact that a carrier over the horizon just doen't have (and yes the carrier is far more efficent).

You've got to admit, this is impressive.

Nothing like a broadside of 16" shells to adjust one's attitude.

re: #67 MandyManners

I wonder why.

Maybe their pending EU membership was threatened- that's my theory.

re: #71 Shug

That's funny, they suck at golf coverage too. Yes, I watch golf. 40% golf, 60% interviewing tournament sponsors, tour administrators, whatever. And most of these people are not interesting people.

re: #70 American Soldier

Not only are the Mercy and Comfort NOT warships. Under the Geneva Conventions, they are the opposite of warships.

re: #70 American Soldier

The Comfort and Mercy are not actual warships.

They are USS Naval ships, without know the details of the Montreux convention I'd guess it all naval vessels.

re: #78 jcm
Pssst - Israel has "i's" and we copied and improved on those but don't tell O.R. that!

In a stump speech critical of Senator McCain's Georgia comments , senator Obama said
"John McCain says We're all Georgians. Well Senator McCain doesn't know that there are 56 other states too. He's out of touch "

re: #79 Bobibutu

More ...
[Link: blog.wired.com...]

U.S. Warships Run the Gauntlet with Georgia Aid (Updated) ...

Update 14:33 EST: Uh-oh: "Russian forces took up positions Thursday at the entrance to Georgia's main Black Sea port city of Poti, excavating trenches, setting up mortars and blocking a key bridge with armored personnel carriers and trucks," the AP reports.

This could get mighty interesting.

re: #82 Sharmuta

Maybe their pending EU membership was threatened- that's my theory.

Or the Turks could have insisted that it be the price.

re: #73 Archimedes

I only watch when there is actual competition. The rest of the time I'm in my recliner, with my computer, keeping up on the happenings of the day.

re: #86 realwest

Pssst - Israel has "i's" and we copied and improved on those but don't tell O.R. that!

You're thinking of F-16s. Which are not deployed on carriers. F/A-18s are.

re: #73 Archimedes

I guess in a way, NBC can't really be faulted. The Olympics are prime time, and they are trying to snag an audience that normally would never watch an athletic event on TV.

re: #81 American Soldier

Nothing like a broadside of 16" shells to adjust one's attitude.

Railguns will put to shame 16inch guns.

re: #77 realwest

It's called Freedom of Navigation.

1936 Montreux Convention? Give me a break.

re: #85 jcm

They are USS Naval ships, without know the details of the Montreux convention I'd guess it all naval vessels.

That may be so.
I missed a tour of the Comfort in NOLA. Wish I coulda seen her.

re: #93 kuffar

Railguns will put to shame 16inch guns.

I just hope they don't put Amtrak in charge of the railguns.

/

re: #79 Bobibutu

"Russian forces took up positions Thursday at the entrance to Georgia's main Black Sea port city of Poti, excavating trenches, setting up mortars and blocking a key bridge with armored personnel carriers and trucks,"

A/K/A Target Rich environment! IIRC (and I'm not really a Navy guy) our latest destroyers not only have rapid fire 5" guns, but also Tomahawk Cruise Missiles and the Russians have................mortars?!

re: #85 jcm

Actually they are USNS...United States Naval Ships...

re: #74 jcm

To bad bad no Battlewagon are available to troll the coast. I know they're anachronistic. But something about a a big ship with big guns in view has a impact that a carrier over the horizon just doen't have (and yes the carrier is far more efficent).

You've got to admit, this is impressive.

Amazing ... that ship is listing big time.

Off to bed. Good night, again.

re: #91 Occasional Reader Duh! Ok, though, I'll take the Superhornets whatever number they are! LOL!
Besides which, I really would LOVE to see Turkey open up an air base for our use, then have us put oh, 24 or so Raptors there. Buh-Bye Russia in Georgia!

re: #88 Occasional Reader

Do you really think the Russians will fire on US ships? That's Benfold (I believe) an Arleigh Burk class destroyer, which is either Aegis or ABM capable (off the top of my head).

It would be...an error.

re: #91 Occasional Reader

You're thinking of F-16s. Which are not deployed on carriers. F/A-18s are.

Had a few in town for a Notre Dame-Navy game flyover. Was standing on the edge of the taxiway as they moved to their hardstand. I imagine that's vaguely like being on a flight deck. Very cool.

re: #88 Occasional Reader

This could get mighty interesting.

I fear it will not end well. The Russian "oligarchy" is a loose cannon, primed with a healthy charge of historical paranoia.

re: #96 Occasional Reader

I just hope they don't put Amtrak in charge of the railguns.

/

ROFLMAO

re: #98 Reno911

Actually they are USNS...United States Naval Ships...

Thanks. re: #99 Archimedes

Amazing ... that ship is listing big time.

You can see how far sideways she's been pushed too!

re: #98 Reno911

My son leaves for his second deployment next Thursday. His ship was initially destined for Turkey until Russia invaded Georgia. Now they are being sent to Israel due to the fact there are enough ships taking care of business already. What do you suppose this all means?

Time to call it a night...thank you for another great day lizards.

re: #88 Occasional Reader

This could get mighty interesting.

And crowded!

The Georgia flotilla, by
contrast, is stacked with heavily-armed warships. The vanguard includes
the Burke-class destroyer McFaul (pictured)and the armed Coast Guard
cutter Dallas. (Another Dallas, a nuclear submarine, is also in the
area.) Trailing behind is the command ship Mount Whitney with,
reportedly, Polish and Canadian frigates as escorts. The naval aid
effort isn't taking any chances.

And for good reason. Russia's Black Sea fleet dominated the waters off
Georgia from the early days of the fighting, and now it's been announced
that the sole Russian aircraft carrier, Kuznetsov, is headed to the
eastern Mediterranean.

re: #93 kuffar

Railguns will put to shame 16inch guns.

16 inch railguns! What a concept!

re: #106 jcm

You can see how far sideways she's been pushed too!

You can also see the seawater being displaced by the gun's muzzle blasts...

re: #107 flynmudd

My son leaves for his second deployment next Thursday. His ship was initially destined for Turkey until Russia invaded Georgia. Now they are being sent to Israel due to the fact there are enough ships taking care of business already. What do you suppose this all means?

Better shore leave?

re: #77 realwest

Montreux Convention

- Smoke on the Water?

re: #93 kuffar

Railguns will put to shame 16inch guns.

The problem with railguns are that the projectile breaks up when it hits anything - like, oh, a leaf - and second, that it doesn't stop until it hits something. Anything. Like a leaf. A railgun round passes that 11 klick per second threshold.

re: #109 Bobibutu

now it's been announced
that the sole Russian aircraft carrier, Kuznetsov, is headed to the
eastern Mediterranean.

Sweet, the United States hasn't sunk an Aircraft Carrier since WWII.

As a pilot at Midway said, scratch one flattop.

re: #94 Reno911
Um, how's about "The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (LOS Convention), which entered into force in November 1994, has prompted calls for the Montreux Convention to be revised and adapted to make it compatible with the LOS Convention's regime governing straits used for international navigation. However, Turkey's long-standing refusal to sign the LOS Convention has meant that Montreux remains in force without further amendments.[18]"[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #113 slokat

- Smoke on the Water?

Thanks for that. I'm a big Deep Purple fan.

re: #109 Bobibutu

And crowded!

The Georgia flotilla, by
contrast, is stacked with heavily-armed warships. The vanguard includes
the Burke-class destroyer McFaul (pictured)and the armed Coast Guard
cutter Dallas. (Another Dallas, a nuclear submarine, is also in the
area.) Trailing behind is the command ship Mount Whitney with,
reportedly, Polish and Canadian frigates as escorts. The naval aid
effort isn't taking any chances.

And for good reason. Russia's Black Sea fleet dominated the waters off
Georgia from the early days of the fighting, and now it's been announced
that the sole Russian aircraft carrier, Kuznetsov, is headed to the
eastern Mediterranean.

That ought to impress the US Med fleet! ;)

re: #107 flynmudd

Not a clue, and if I did, I wouldn't speculate too much.

re: #106 jcm

You can see how far sideways she's been pushed too!

Not too often that you see an athwartships wake. Very impressive indeed.

re: #98 Reno911

Actually they are USNS...United States Naval Ships...

USNS Comfort

re: #107 flynmudd

Your son is going on a standard Med cruise. USN ship employment schedules are written in sand. Once the ship leaves the pier, anything is possible.

What is the name of the ship? Or type? eg DDG, CG, CV, CVN etc

re: #114 Dianna

The problem with railguns are that the projectile breaks up when it hits anything - like, oh, a leaf - and second, that it doesn't stop until it hits something. Anything. Like a leaf. A railgun round passes that 11 klick per second threshold.

Yeah, but you wouldn't need to be in the Black Sea, you could land gunfire in Georgia from the Med...

The United States Navy was experimenting with an 8" gun to put on surface ships to give them NGFS ability beyond the pitiful 5 inch gun. Worth looking into.

Iran wants to buy our wheat; We ought to put a few stings on that deal. Or let them eat their precious uranium and centrifuges.

"C'mon George. Here is a nice ham sandwich! See? It matches your plaid tie and your rubber boots! Now, give me one of your 45 cartridges and we'll trade! Later on, we'll talk about this nice tall glass of icy lemonade.....Easy.... That's a boy..."

re: #109 Bobibutu

They got the Kuznetzov out of port?!

re: #125 Dianna

They got the Kuznetzov out of port?!

Yeah, after they refitted it with five banks of oars...

USNS Comfort, hospital ship.

re: #118 really grumpy big dog Johnson

You owe me some wine.

I'm snickering helplessly.

re: #126 kuffar

Yeah, after they refitted it with five banks of oars...

I'm sure it wasn't quite that bad.

Really.

Well it's time for me to call it a day as well.

Hey Charles! Whatever happened to the Early Morning Open thread? Having to start my day day on a late evening thread with a 1000+ post is a real drag.

Leave your response at the start of it please.

/Ducks and runs for the door

re: #123 kuffar

Too many birds in the way, to say absolutely nothing of the curve of the horizon.

re: #18 FurryOldGuyJeans

I sure wish we were willing and able to do more to help Georgians in their hour of need. What we are doing is pathetically less than what we are capable of, and still more than a lot of those Euro-peon countries (d@amn their rulers!) who are a hell of a lot closer.

I have been curious about the legality of raising an army, outside of the US. It has been done in the past (the Lincoln Brigades) but further discussion would probably violate Charles' terms.

re: #110 CIA Reject Uh, "rail guns"? You mean those electromagnetic guns or the huge artillery pieces that are pulled along railroad tracks? Cause if it's the latter, I think the Nazi's had the biggest one and it was 320 mm; a 16" gun on the Iowa class battlewagon is also 320mm, more or less.
But the Tomahawks would make short work of any rail guns!

re: #130 Bubblehead II

Well it's time for me to call it a day as well.

Hey Charles! Whatever happened to the Early Morning Open thread? Having to start my day day on a late evening thread with a 1000+ post is a real drag.

Leave your response at the start of it please.

/Ducks and runs for the door

It's hours yet for early morning in LaLa land...

re: #131 Dianna

Too many birds in the way, to say absolutely nothing of the curve of the horizon.

Um...forgot to add: Science fiction writer. Not military SF - but I read the folks who write it. Math isn't a strong point, but I do remember diagrams.

re: #107 flynmudd
Um, what kind of ship is he on?

re: #122 Reno911

Destroyer.

More grist for the mill...

Moscow is flexing it's muscles again in the eastern Mediterranean and
aims to reactivate old cold war naval installations with it's ally Syria.
President Bashar Assad is on his way to the Kremlin to finalize what
looks to become a high profile feature. With not a moment to lose,
the Russian aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" is under orders to head
from Murmansk towards the Mediterranean and the Syrian port of Tartus.

The mission comes after Syrian President Bashar Assad said he is open to a Russian base in the area. The "Admiral Kuznetsov", part of the
Northern Fleet and Russia's only aircraft carrier, will head a Navy mission to the area. The mission will also include the Black Sea fleet flagship, missile cruiser "Moskva" and several submarines.

But what is worrying Israeli defense sources mostly are reports that the
Kremlin has already decided to deploy its latest Iskander Tactical
Missile System to defend the new naval deployment at Tartus. The
Iskander SS-21 / Scarab/Tochka is considered to be superior to earlier
short range surface/surface missiles as it has 'trajectory shaping'
capability, which makes it more survivable to missile interceptors.

During the cold war, Russia operated naval bases in Syria's Tartus and
Latakia ports supporting the Black Sea fleet's 720th Logistics Support
Point. The bases in Syria were among three logistical support bases
established by the Russian Navy during the days of the cold war. These
bases were deactivated after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the
early 1990s. At present, a small logistic support facility still exists in Tartus. If a major base is reactivated, a growing presence of Russian Navy in the east Mediterranean could have a most dramatic strategic impact. High-profile air defense missiles and surveillance systems deployment around any Russian-manned installations in Syrian ports, could shift the military balance between Syria and Israel.

A similar situation developed in 1969-1970 in Egypt, during the later
stages of the so-called 'War of Attrition' along the Suez Canal, resulting in repeated and deliberate direct confrontations between the
Israeli air force and Russian air defense missiles and fighters.

re: #129 Dianna

I'm sure it wasn't quite that bad.

Really.

4 banks of oars and an Evinrude 300HP outboard.

re: #127 Ojoe

USNS Comfort, hospital ship.

Intewesting.

Btw, mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets.

re: #133 realwest

Uh, "rail guns"? You mean those electromagnetic guns or the huge artillery pieces that are pulled along railroad tracks? Cause if it's the latter, I think the Nazi's had the biggest one and it was 320 mm; a 16" gun on the Iowa class battlewagon is also 320mm, more or less.
But the Tomahawks would make short work of any rail guns!

I was thinking of a humongous version of the electromagnetic gun- strictly for entertainment purposes of course...

re: #54 jcm

But he pointed out that no U.S. Navy hospital ships would be involved in the humanitarian mission following reported plans for two such vessels -- the Comfort and the Mercy -- to sail through Turkish waters to Georgia.

The two hospital ships tonnage exceeded the limits set by the 1936 Montreux Convention, which governs international traffic through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits. Under the Convention, the total weight of the warships that countries not bordering the Black Sea can deploy was limited to 45,000 tons.

So which way will the Turks jump when the Kuznetsov attempts to steam through?

Kuznetsov - Displacement: 43,000 t (42,321 long tons) light
53,000–55,000 t (52,000–54,000 long tons) standard
66,000–67,500 t (65,000–66,000 long tons) full load

Will the Turks block the Kuznetsov?

re: #133 realwest

Those big German cannon had numbered shells, each a little larger in diameter, to compensate for bore wear.

re: #133 realwest

Uh, "rail guns"? You mean those electromagnetic guns or the huge artillery pieces that are pulled along railroad tracks? Cause if it's the latter, I think the Nazi's had the biggest one and it was 320 mm; a 16" gun on the Iowa class battlewagon is also 320mm, more or less.
But the Tomahawks would make short work of any rail guns!

Rail gun is the electromagnetic propulsion system. The Iowa's guns are 406mm, the Germans has Schwerer Gustav which was 800mm which was a railway gun

re: #116 realwest

Let me put it this way. The USG, and by extension the USN, does not recognize any restrictions on the freedom to navigate the worlds oceans. Yes, we recognize territorial waters, but even then, the right of innocent passage applies. The Black Sea FON operation is/was an annual event for the USN.

Furthermore, do you really think Turkey could dictate where our warships go?

re: #137 flynmudd

Destroyer.

These days, those are more aptly named than ever before.

re: #132 rawmuse

Don't.

The speed with which bad things happen is really astonishing.

re: #125 Dianna

They got the Kuznetzov out of port?!

Ouch!

re: #137 flynmudd

*Gulp.*

re: #133 realwest

Uh, "rail guns"? You mean those electromagnetic guns or the huge artillery pieces that are pulled along railroad tracks? Cause if it's the latter, I think the Nazi's had the biggest one and it was 320 mm; a 16" gun on the Iowa class battlewagon is also 320mm, more or less.
But the Tomahawks would make short work of any rail guns!

EM Railgun muzzle velocity around 12,000fps, your trusty M14 had a velocity of 2800fps.

re: #115 kuffar

Sweet, the United States hasn't sunk an Aircraft Carrier since WWII.

As a pilot at Midway said, scratch one flattop.

Tis true, but iirc, the Russian "aircraft carrier" isn't what we would call it - it's more of a helicopter or Harrier type of carrier, like the Brits have. Scratch one almost carrier would be more accurate.
I mean, WTF do the Russians think they are playing at here?

re: #146 really grumpy big dog Johnson

He's looking forward to shore leave in Israel. His last deployment included 7 countries. He's hoping to stay in Israel for a while and do some sightseeing.

re: #121 American Soldier Hey there American Soldier! Thanks for that link!
How are you doing these days/nights?

re: #142 Syrah

Will the Turks block the Kuznetsov?

Is the warship tonnage aggregate or individual? I don't know, if it's individual it's under 45,000.

re: #138 Bobibutu

Our remote capabilities were much less in the cited era.

Syria should pipe down. I don't think even our State Department is that stupid.

Contrary, btw, to the many Condi bashers here, she's been reverting to her later academic form, and "confront, consolidate and contain" is the system.

re: #137 flynmudd

The only destroyers left in the US inventory are Guided Missile Destroyers, DDG, Arleigh Burke class.

Very capable, modern ships. Actually, the most capable ships the USN has ever built. Interesting enough, the USN took a page from the USSR and built the Arleigh Burkes with a wide beam. Aegis equipped.

I would think your son will be fine.

re: #126 kuffar
ROTLFLMAO!

re: #152 flynmudd

He's looking forward to shore leave in Israel. His last deployment included 7 countries. He's hoping to stay in Israel for a while and do some sightseeing.

NSFW- LANGUAGE

re: #142 Syrah

It's not quite a mile wide.

Guess.

re: #153 realwest

Hey there American Soldier! Thanks for that link!
How are you doing these days/nights?

Mostly working my ass off. Also running for office.

re: #145 Reno911

Ah...you have looked at the Bosporus/Dardanelles, right? We could, indeed, suppress them. It would be an interesting exercise.

re: #135 Dianna

Rail guns are limited by horizons definitely. A really good one could hit a target at 100's of km's away with no problem. After that it's going orbital. Also the strength of the actual projectile wouldn't be limited by intermediate obstructions like leaves or birds. The shock wave it would create would likely move stuff like that out of the way. Think about it, you are throwing an iron slug the size of pop bottle at super mach speeds, I pity the actual target when it hits. :)

re: #156 Reno911

Thanks. I'm a bit worried about this deployment. Things are slightly more hectic than last time. His ship was chasing pirates and AQ. This time it seems he may be fighting off more than Black Beard.

re: #156 Reno911

It doesn't matter what I post, does it?

re: #145 Reno911
I don't know if Turkey could "dictate" where our warships would go, but I sure as hell rather have Turkey on our side than against us - if not for the Turkish Army, then for the Airbases they could provide.

re: #161 Dianna

Ah...you have looked at the Bosporus/Dardanelles, right? We could, indeed, suppress them. It would be an interesting exercise.

Are you an ST-TOS writer?

re: #132 rawmuse

I have been curious about the legality of raising an army, outside of the US. It has been done in the past (the Lincoln Brigades) but further discussion would probably violate Charles' terms.

Just get in contact with CHARLIES INDEPENDENT ARMY...that's right C.I.A. care of any address you can find in any copy of "Soldier of Fortune" magazine.

re: #115 kuffar

Sweet, the United States hasn't sunk an Aircraft Carrier since WWII.

As a pilot at Midway said, scratch one flattop.

Right ocean, wrong battle; Coral Sea - May 42

re: #154 jcm

Is the warship tonnage aggregate or individual? I don't know, if it's individual it's under 45,000.

I don't know the answer to that.

I suppose that all the oars and that Evinrude 300HP outboard moter that they will need to move it will add some weight to it.

Seriously though, I have no idea how tonnage is figured or if the agreement refers to "long tons" or standard.

It might give the Turks more wiggle room than they would want while standing between the US and the USSR Russia

re: #151 realwest

Tis true, but iirc, the Russian "aircraft carrier" isn't what we would call it - it's more of a helicopter or Harrier type of carrier, like the Brits have. Scratch one almost carrier would be more accurate.
I mean, WTF do the Russians think they are playing at here?

Yeah, more accurately a large aviation cruiser. Not much of an air 'wing'. Its carries 12 SS-N-19 Shipwreck missiles which are aptly named. If they hit your ship is in a world of hurt. Only 12 Su-33s.

But it is still a large ship with a fixed wing aircraft compliment.

Man can you guys help me?

Someone stop me from monitoring the koskiddies.
What is wrong with me?

Their new idea?
Jingle keys at the Democratic convention. 7 keys on a keyring to make fun of McCain.
Or do it at one of his townhalls.

One of the morons suggesting holding up those colorful baby key rings over your head while jangling your real keys in your other hand.

Is it just me or is this one of the most juvenile, idiot things you have ever heard of?
It is now a recommended diary with everyone saying what a great idea it is.

re: #144 kuffar
The Iowa's guns are 406mm ? Huh, well you can tell I was a grunt, I always thought it was 20mm to the inch.
None of which matters these days anyway!

re: #161 Dianna

The only way to block the B/D is to mine it. Not out of the realm of possibility, Ivan had quite a mine warfare capability.

Mining a waterway is considered an act of war in itself. So don't leave any traces.

re: #133 realwest

Close RW but not that close - Gustav

Night all.

re: #170 kuffar

But it is still a large ship with a fixed wing aircraft compliment.

... and a nuclear sub waiting to pick it up just out of port.

re: #162 BlueCanuck

I've spent a lot of time with people discussing this. While current railgun round is the size of a pop bottle, it needn't be.

And - even so - it breaks up if it encounters extra humidity (a side-effect of speed, somewhat embarrassing) which could be reduced with a smaller round.

It still - no matter what - means that railgun rounds tend to make the term "collateral damage" something like a bad joke.

re: #172 realwest

13mm=1/2 inch(check your socket set) ...26mm=1 inch

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

Do you slow down to look at car crashes, too?

re: #172 realwest

25.4, to be exact.

How ya doin' buddy?

re: #166 American Soldier

No. I read it - I don't write it; not enough math/chemistry/engineering. I do history and politics.

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

Man can you guys help me?

Someone stop me from monitoring the koskiddies.
What is wrong with me?

Their new idea?
Jingle keys at the Democratic convention. 7 keys on a keyring to make fun of McCain.
Or do it at one of his townhalls.

One of the morons suggesting holding up those colorful baby key rings over your head while jangling your real keys in your other hand.

Is it just me or is this one of the most juvenile, idiot things you have ever heard of?
It is now a recommended diary with everyone saying what a great idea it is.

Lifted from the palis.

Hey, I was cruising B. HUSSEIN's hood long before he ever hit Chitown. Had a girlfriend in Kenwood during HS.

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

Man can you guys help me?

Someone stop me from monitoring the koskiddies.
What is wrong with me?

Their new idea?
Jingle keys at the Democratic convention. 7 keys on a keyring to make fun of McCain.
Or do it at one of his townhalls.

One of the morons suggesting holding up those colorful baby key rings over your head while jangling your real keys in your other hand.

Is it just me or is this one of the most juvenile, idiot things you have ever heard of?
It is now a recommended diary with everyone saying what a great idea it is.

This is not a bad thing.

The din and racket will make it near impossible for the speeches to be heard.

re: #172 realwest

25.4 mm's to the inch approximately. Or just make the math easier, 25 mms. 300 mm's to the foot and 900 mm's to the yard.

/1 lb = 454 grams, 3.85 liters to the gallon. . . . . .
//

re: #150 jcm LOL! Yeah but I could hit my targets at 400 meters 10 out of 10 times with my trusty ole M-14. Geez I really loved that rifle.
Besides, even a grunt like me wasn't dumb enough to try to hump that EM Railgun through the bush! LOL!

re: #160 American Soldier

Mostly working my ass off. Also running for office.

What office are you running for, AS?

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

The first thing you must do is admit that you are powerless over your monitoring behavior, and that your life has become unmanageable.

re: #181 Dianna

No. I read it - I don't write it; not enough math/chemistry/engineering. I do history and politics.

K. Just curious.

Hi real, interesting stuff you're talking about. (Nah, haven't a clue myself, but it sure is interesting.)
;)

re: #186 Irene NYC

What office are you running for, AS?

Not gonna discuss it here. Sorry. My nic is a very thin cover. But I'm not B. HUSSEIN.

re: #173 Reno911

You know and I know there is absolutely no way to not leave a trace. So...either say you're at war, or don't.

Chemistry really doesn't lie. I speak as a "kitchen chemist" who stopped before life became far, far too interesting.

re: #187 Temujin

The first thing you must do is admit that you are powerless over your monitoring behavior, and that your life has become unmanageable.

LOL!

re: #172 realwest

The Iowa's guns are 406mm ? Huh, well you can tell I was a grunt, I always thought it was 20mm to the inch.
None of which matters these days anyway!

25.4 to be exactly exact. Thus a 406 is a 16 inch gun.

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

Man can you guys help me?

Someone stop me from monitoring the koskiddies.
What is wrong with me?

Their new idea?
Jingle keys at the Democratic convention. 7 keys on a keyring to make fun of McCain.
Or do it at one of his townhalls.

One of the morons suggesting holding up those colorful baby key rings over your head while jangling your real keys in your other hand.

Is it just me or is this one of the most juvenile, idiot things you have ever heard of?
It is now a recommended diary with everyone saying what a great idea it is.

Well, McCain said that he wants everyone to be able to get rich, so you can't call him a hypocrite.

re: #190 American Soldier

Not gonna discuss it here. Sorry. My nic is a very thin cover. But I'm not B. HUSSEIN.

Good luck, nonetheless. Hope you fare well on November 2.

re: #190 American Soldier

Not gonna discuss it here. Sorry. My nic is a very thin cover. But I'm not B. HUSSEIN.

Well Hello Senator McCain!

I was thinking about what we could do modern day with a 16 inch gun; such as range increase and percision.

re: #195 Irene NYC

Good luck, nonetheless. Hope you fare well on November 2.

I may be drunk on the 2nd. The election is on the 4th.

Kaine and Not-particularly-Able: what a ticket!

re: #199 NogenDavid

Kaine and Not-particularly-Able: what a ticket!

If he picks Kaine, you need to make a tshirt of that slogan!

In the cold war the US naval had a term for the Russian Navy.

Target Rich Environment.

While ours is smaller, it's more technological. The Russian Navy has simply degraded.

re: #201 jcm

Just think, in the right/wrong spots, they will make great artificial reefs.

re: #196 Typicalwhitey

Well Hello Senator McCain!

Hmmm, no answer.

Am I right?

re: #197 kuffar

"Precision", dear. I have no clue what "percision" might be.

You're right, AS, Election Day is November 4th. My bad.
;)

In defence of Obama's moral neutrality on the invasion of Georgia,
it should be appreciated that he thought Russian was driving for Atlanta.

re: #202 BlueCanuck

Just think, in the right/wrong spots, they will make great artificial reefs.

Just goes to show you that sinking carriers can be kind to the environment.

re: #203 Typicalwhitey

I was thinking PA, no AZ.

I am so happy to find that Georgians know that we are supporting them. My heart breaks for what they are going through, on top of what they have gone through for decades as a Soviet territory. Anytime I see free people under attack by murderous, hegemonic thugs, I want us to do whatever we possibly can to stop it. But, knowing what is at stake in the larger picture, I understand why we have to act with restraint. I'm actually close to tears to realize that, despite the pain, suffering and hardship that the Georgians have been facing, they are smart enough to understand why that restraint is necessary, also. This is what democracy is all about, and it is exactly why it needs to be defended until our final, dying breath.

God bless and keep Georgia. As long as pacifist appeasers like Obama are kept out of leadership positions, this Russian aggression will not stand. This is exactly why we all have to work as hard as we possibly can to see that Obama gets nowhere near the White House, no matter what your opinion of McCain may be. A small, but very inspirational nation in Eastern Europe is depending upon the outcome of this campaign.

In the same issue (love that 1st pic)

post masculine charisma

OT - Update on Al-Jazeera in Golden, Co.

Some of the Lizards may have seen my "rant" the other night about the City Manager of Golden, who, with the blessing of the city, was going to be hosting Al-Jareeza next Thursday, at the same time Obama was giving his speech.

Al-Jarzeera is putting together a retrospect of "typical" people of the American west, and they arranged to be in two locations in Golden. The City Manager's get together was going to be a BBQ in his back yard, and he was NOT cooking any pork in deference to Muslims sensabilities.

Well, it appears that a number of people at our local VFW and some other concerned citizens, showed up at our City Council meeting tonight and complained. The city indicated that they were not aware of the political slant of this news agency (yea, bullshit).

So, the BBQ has been canceled. Al-jarzeera will still be holding a discussion, with invited guests, on the back porch of the Buffalo Rose nightclub (one of the oldest bars in Colorado, circa 1859). Of course, the Buffalo Rose is a private business, and they can do what ever they want.

Even though the City Council says they are going to cancel the BBQ, I am still interested in finding out if they make some "other" arrangements to accommodate AL-Jarzeera.

We'll see.

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #203 Typicalwhitey

I have no idea, and even had I, I would not speculate.

Good lord, can you imagine the Kos Kiddie and DU and whoever-all-else reaction?

re: #201 jcm

In the cold war the US naval had a term for the Russian Navy.

Target Rich Environment.

While ours is smaller, it's more technological. The Russian Navy has simply degraded.

What I am most worried about is one the Russian ships, the Kuznetsov comes to mind, sinks of its own accord, and we get blamed for it.

Propaganda does not have much need for the "truth" save but a thread or two.

re: #203 Typicalwhitey

Hmmm, no answer.

Am I right?

Nope. Not Cynthia McKinney, either.

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

DK has always been classic arrested development on parade.

re: #171 Typicalwhitey

Just remind 'em that McCain supporters will be jingling right back at' em..... on an oversized jailer's keyring, for Revsco.
Then again, releasing thousands of rats on the DNC floor in evocation of the slum lord would be fun. And it would draw PETA, whch ups the moonbat factor.

re: #193 really grumpy big dog Johnson

25.4 to be exactly exact. Thus a 406 is a 16 inch gun.

The Japanese super battleship Yamato had 460mm (18.1inch) guns.

re: #160 American Soldier Running for office? Seriously? Um, what office (y'all don't have to tell us where!)?

re: #190 American Soldier

Not gonna discuss it here. Sorry. My nic is a very thin cover. But I'm not B. HUSSEIN.

And you can't be McCain, he doesn't know about the internet.

re: #216 tradewind

Just remind 'em that McCain supporters will be jingling right back at' em..... on an oversized jailer's keyring, for Revsco.
Then again, releasing thousands of rats on the DNC floor in evocation of the slum lord would be fun. And it would draw PETA, whch ups the moonbat factor.

The rats won't be on the convention floor, they'll be out in the streets protesting.

re: #209 BGOH

Of course Georgians are thrilled with the U.S. All the little Eastern European countries are thrilled when the U.S. does even the tiniest of things for them. And when they get quashed, they still have historically continued hoping and hoping and hoping. (Unfortunately, our record hasn't been as good as what I think it could have been.) Why? Because they know first hand that they're only hope is the U.S. - however late that help may be.

re: #214 American Soldier

Nope. Not Cynthia McKinney, either.

Ah well.
Had to ask lol

re: #213 Syrah

What I am most worried about is one the Russian ships, the Kuznetsov comes to mind, sinks of its own accord, and we get blamed for it.

Propaganda does not have much need for the "truth" save but a thread or two.

Given the state of he Russian Navy, it could happen.

re: #197 kuffar

We found that guided rockets are as accurate and can do as much damage as 16" guns plus they can be carried on smaller ships or planes.

re: #213 Syrah

After the decade the Russian navy has had? They couldn't blame us short of a boarding action that we took video of!

Or have you forgotten the Kursk?

(I haven't forgiven the Russians for that, even now).

re: #220 BlueCanuck

They are just so damn ignorant over there and yet one of their votes is equal to one of mine.

re: #217 jcm

The Yamato? The one that sank? Without going into combat?

re: #225 Dianna

After the decade the Russian navy has had? They couldn't blame us short of a boarding action that we took video of!

Or have you forgotten the Kursk?

(I haven't forgiven the Russians for that, even now).

Didn't the Russians accuse us of sinking the Kursk? (By allowing it to run into one of our subs IIRC.)

So, AS, are you one of those ignorant, gun-toting neanderthals from PA?
;)

re: #180 Noam Sayin'
HEY NOAM! Well ok, then I'm not ready to move to Canada yet. So sue me! LOL!
I'm ok, but getting tired. How are you doing my friend?

re: #191 Dianna

I suppose you are right. But that's not to say that we would not ignore it.

I'll give you an example; During the run-up to Gulf War I/Desert Storm, we (USN) watched Saddam roll (WWII technology) floating mines off of barges every night. Our government did nothing. As you can imagine, us sailors were highly pissed-off. Matter of fact, later on, two ships (Princeton and Tripoli) hit a couple of those mines and servicemen were killed.

So, sometimes, I guess, we have ignored "acts of war" when it is perceived to be in our nations best interest.

That's why I like John McCain. He recognizes "acts of war" when he see's them.

re: #227 Dianna

The Yamato? The one that sank? Without going into combat?

Those 460's sucked against dive bombers.

re: #232 really grumpy big dog Johnson

That was the end of the era of the dreadnought battleship.

re: #230 realwest

Just wrapping up my night. But there are so many knowledgeable folks chiming in tonight. It's hard to leave.

LGF rocks.

re: #189 Irene NYC
Why thank you Irene! I don't have a clue, either -especially when it comes to converting to metric! LOL!
How are you doing - seriously?

re: #229 Irene NYC

So, AS, are you one of those ignorant, gun-toting neanderthals from PA?
;)

No, I'm a gun-toting redneck Hoosier, bitterly clinging to my Torah.

re: #231 Reno911

Nothing pissed me off more than Bush ignoring all those Iranian-made IEDs in Iraq for years. Now, we're going to have to contend with Iranian-trained snipers by the hundreds, if not thousands coming into Iraq. And I'll just bet it'll be the same ol', same ol'. Why is the USofA such a sucker so often?

Let's be frank, my friends. McCain does not really believe in self-determination for democratic, pro-Western societies. He is once again pandering to the Georgian American votes ( even at the cost of writing off all the expatriate southern Ossetians).

re: #228 Syrah

No. The Kursk, heaven help the poor bastards serving on her, just...had a problem. I'd have to ask the folks who know about this stuff for the technical details, but we had nothing to do with it.

We did, however, for whatever reason never adequately explained, manage to have one of our subs surface under a Japanese tour ship. And, during the same time frame, managed to run a ship aground on an atoll.

If Rice or a State proxy had enough guts to tell the world what is really happening, Russia would cower in embarrassment.

re: #235 realwest

Seriously, it could be better, but I'm not going to complain. NYC is sunny which always keeps me smiling.

Hope you're doing well, sugar.
;)

re: #227 Dianna

The Yamato? The one that sank? Without going into combat?

Participated in the Battle of Leyte Gulf, along with sister ship Musashi ( sunk). Sunk during Okinawa battles while tryin to make a one way suicide run to beach herself on Okinawa coast and shoot her guns dry.

Or, conversely, maybe Obama thinks the KGB vote in Ohio will put him over the top?

re: #236 American Soldier

Well, I'll spare a special thought for you on Election Day.

re: #239 Dianna

No. The Kursk, heaven help the poor bastards serving on her, just...had a problem. I'd have to ask the folks who know about this stuff for the technical details, but we had nothing to do with it.

We did, however, for whatever reason never adequately explained, manage to have one of our subs surface under a Japanese tour ship. And, during the same time frame, managed to run a ship aground on an atoll.

Bad ship driving. OTH, I wasn't on the bridge of either vessel when the Captain's career ended.

re: #231 Reno911

Historically, many nations ignore "acts of war" if it's not in their interest to respond. Sometimes, that's a mistake. Other times, it's a really good idea.

Unfortunately, history doesn't answer present questions. Any historian who tells you that it does is a liar. History presents a series of examples; from that, one may draw principles, but it's never absolute.

re: #227 Dianna

The Yamato? The one that sank? Without going into combat?

Yep, suicide run to Okinawa, ran into a couple carriers.

re: #232 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Oh, yeah.

IIRC the Kursk sinking started with the Russians still using torpedoes that were fueled with hydrogen peroxide. A WWII technology.

re: #244 Irene NYC

Well, I'll spare a special thought for you on Election Day.

Thanks. Spare $35 or more and we'll mail you the T-shirt.

re: #240 pat

Hon, Condi could strip naked, paint herself in gold and spangles, and no one would care.

re: #234 Noam Sayin'

Just wrapping up my night. But there are so many knowledgeable folks chiming in tonight. It's hard to leave.

Boy to I know what you mean! I'm about to pass out here!
LGF does indeed ROCK!

re: #251 Dianna

Hon, Condi could strip naked, paint herself in gold and spangles, and no one would care.

I'd take a look.

re: #242 Panhandler

Ta, much.

Always a bad idea to operate off the top of my head.

re: #251 Dianna

Hon, Condi could strip naked, paint herself in gold and spangles, and no one would care.

You might be wrong.

;-)

re: #253 American Soldier

The lady's well over 60; she runs, and watches what she eats, but I'm pretty sure she's not pron star material.

re: #200 Typicalwhitey

Kaine and Obamanable.
Best would be Obama/buh-Bayh

re: #88 Occasional Reader

Humm.... Something about a unscheduled airlift of C-17s and the 173rd from Germany and the Ready Brigade of the 82nd

Just Saying ... two brigades of American Paratroops can whip any 2 or 3 Divisions of RedSovietRussian troops