LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Russia Stages Substantial Withdrawal

Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 11:38:07 am PDT

The Russian military has withdrawn a large part of its occupying forces in Georgia, in an apparent step back from the brink of a wider conflict.

GORI, Georgia, Aug. 22 — Russia pulled troops and armored vehicles out of vast swaths of seized territory and ended its 10-day occupation of this Georgian city Friday, but Georgian and foreign officials disputed Russia’s claim that it had complied with the terms of a recent cease-fire agreement.

Columns of Russian trucks, tanks and artillery pieces rumbled north throughout the day toward the breakaway territories whose disputed status sparked the current crisis. Just before leaving Gori at 8 p.m., Russian forces detonated giant explosions on various Georgian armories and military installations that spewed flames and black smoke into the sky.

The Russian withdrawal was a major step toward ending the slow-burning conflict that ignited into full-scale war Aug. 7 when the Georgian army invaded South Ossetia. Russian forces responded swiftly and sharply, seizing as much as a third of Georgian land.

Advertisement

184 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Crimsonfisted  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:39:40am

They know McCain will be President now.

2 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:39:52am

Putin blinked?

3 tradewind  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:40:03am

--blink--

4 ruexperienced  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:40:24am

We'll see if they leave the disputed territories after the dog and pony show...

5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:41:59am

Pulled away by the gravity of the Biden decision.

6 Catttt  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:42:06am

And wreaking havoc as they go, if there is anything wreakable left.

7 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:42:21am

[Link: www.aboutgeorgia.net...] is still down.

8 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:42:22am

See? They listened to Obama.

/Kaine

9 doriangrey  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:42:24am

Hmmm, any coincidence that this happened right after Turkey agreed to allow US Naval support vessels accessed to the Aegean sea?

10 daddyo  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:43:34am

Gollum, the evil one

11 WayDownSouthInBama  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:44:51am

I'm not surprised. The Russians have run out of women to rape and towns to plunder. They've committed all of the human attrocities they could while the MSM,and the UN,kept their mouths shut about it for the most part. Besides that,I think the word "stages" might just be the proper term. Never trust Communists. Every move they make is staged.

12 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:45:35am
In the western part of Georgia, Russian soldiers continued to man checkpoints near the port in the city of Poti

Poti is what I'm most concerned with. That's where an East-West shooting confrontation could be most easily sparked, if the Russians attempted to interfere with the heavily-armed aid convoy.

13 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:45:47am

What about our Humvees?

14 kuffar  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:46:12am

re: #9 doriangrey

More than likely it was the massed outrage of the UN, NATO and world opinion, as well as our moves.

15 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:47:04am

re: #13 MandyManners

What about our Humvees?

They've given us Trabants as compensation.

16 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:48:15am

Perhaps the approaching American ships caused a few minds to change.

17 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:48:19am

re: #14 kuffar

More than likely it was the massed outrage of the UN, NATO and world opinion, as well as our moves.

I do think Bush's very canny decision to send in aid using military assets helped tremendously. It flipped the onus of "I double-dog dareya" over to the Russian side of the table.

18 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:48:28am

Hussein-Robinette '08 "Yes We Can" (raise your taxes)

19 outsidephilly  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:48:43am

Obama releasing his veep choice was in timing with the Russian withdrawal, after all

20 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:48:56am

re: #12 Occasional Reader

Poti is what I'm most concerned with. That's where an East-West shooting confrontation could be most easily sparked, if the Russians attempted to interfere with the heavily-armed aid convoy.

And they are still saying they are going to patrol the port.

21 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:49:26am

This does not correspond to what I heard on the radio, that thousands of Russians are remaining at least in Ossetia and Abkhazia and also perhaps in "buffer areas" around Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Is it clear that ANY troops or assets have returned to their bases in Russia? Not from this article.

Charles, you may want to change that title.

22 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:49:36am

re: #15 Occasional Reader

They've given us Trabants as compensation.

That would fit into a Humvee's back seat.

23 winston06  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:50:44am

I doubt that. Ruskies can not be trusted

24 doriangrey  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:51:46am

re: #17 Occasional Reader

I do think Bush's very canny decision to send in aid using military assets helped tremendously. It flipped the onus of "I double-dog dareya" over to the Russian side of the table.

Heh heh heh or maybe ole Bush asked Putin to have a drink with him.... At highnoon... in front of the OK corral.... And Putin understood the significance of the reference...

25 tradewind  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:51:49am

Yeah, now that the Olympics are about over, they don't want the the tee-vee eye turned their way.......
Their timing was pretty damn good, gotta say......

26 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:51:54am

re: #21 itellu3times

This does not correspond to what I heard on the radio, that thousands of Russians are remaining at least in Ossetia and Abkhazia and also perhaps in "buffer areas" around Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Is it clear that ANY troops or assets have returned to their bases in Russia? Not from this article.

Charles, you may want to change that title.

I know what! The people in Abkhazia and South Ossetia should have an election to determine whether they want to be ruled by Putin or Sakaashvili. We'll let Jimmah Cahtah supervise the vote.

27 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:52:46am

Sounds like the Moscowvites are slashing and burning their way out and back to Russia in an attempt to destroy infrastructure and defensive positions. This is of course after they have stolen everything as from toilets to kitchen sinks. They will now destroy what they couldn't carry with them on the tops of the Personnel Carriers and T-90 tanks.

28 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:52:52am
29 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:53:01am
the Georgian army invaded South Ossetia.


Wasn't South Ossetia already part of Georgia? How do you invade a province in your own country?

30 Random63  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:53:09am

I wonder what was told to the Russians behind the scenes by our folks. Something pretty ominous I would assume to make them back down.

The Eastern European nations haven't forgotten life under Russian rule. They ran to us so fast and made missile agreements so fast I think it stunned the Russians. They now know if they want to take Ukraine and Poland, they will have a much larger fight on their hands than they did with Georgia. Ukraine and Poland will not go quietly into the night and I think Georgia will be the same way once we help them rebuild. Eastern Europe has said to the the Russians, "Nyet!" in a very loud voice.
IMHO

31 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:53:11am

They are just pulling troops out so they can get them ready for the police action in the Ukraine.

32 rexatosis  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:53:51am

#9 doriangrey

Probably part of the equation along with the escalating costs of occupation, the Russian Army has acheived its objectives of weakening Georgia militarily, sending a message to other states in the "near abroad," and carted off with as much plunder as it can. Any extended military adventure at this point will achieve little additional benefit at a ever increasing cost.

33 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:54:07am

re: #29 Neo Con since 9-11

Wasn't South Ossetia already part of Georgia? How do you invade a province in your own country?

Just ask Ulysses S. Grant.

34 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:55:06am

re: #30 Random63

I wonder what was told to the Russians behind the scenes by our folks. Something pretty ominous I would assume to make them back down....

I doubt they were told anything. One thing is certain, The imaginations of the Ruskies are their own worst enemies when it comes to Paranoia.

35 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:55:06am

re: #33 cliffster

Just ask Ulysses S. Grant.

I sat on the same seat in an outhouse that he did. Truth.

36 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:56:06am

re: #30 Random63

I wonder what was told to the Russians behind the scenes by our folks. Something pretty ominous I would assume to make them back down.

I would bet a good part of what was "said" was the flotilla of destroyers and aircraft carriers that Turkey decided to allow into the Black Sea with humanitarian aid, when they refused permission for our hospital ship.

37 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:56:06am

re: #35 JohnnyReb

I sat on the same seat in an outhouse that he did. Truth.

Wow, you must be OLD! :^)

Why would you know such a thing?

38 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:56:34am

re: #29 Neo Con since 9-11

Wasn't South Ossetia already part of Georgia? How do you invade a province in your own country?

No one seems to want to look at a map these days.

39 alegrias  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:56:52am

Putin should pay for this personally out of the billions he has bilked from billionaire russians whose oil he stole.

NO blood for Oil, indeed. Did you see those poor third world Georgian women left homeless, caring for grandchildren who need vaccines.

Crimes against humanity committed in plain sight while the world watched the Olympics.

This should not stand. Putin should be hauled into the international court like Karadzic was--another butchering bastard scoundrel hiding in plain sight.

40 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:57:23am

re: #13 MandyManners

What about our Humvees?

Kiss 'em goodbye. I willing to be wrong. Don't think so.

41 opnion  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:58:49am

They are just about to introduce Barry & Biden. I'm outa here. See ya

42 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:59:09am

re: #33 cliffster

Just ask Ulysses S. Grant.

Cliff -

Whaddabout WILLIAM TECUMSAH SHERMAN?

-S-

43 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:59:29am

re: #16 Sharmuta

Perhaps the approaching American ships caused a few minds to change.

Indeed:

A top Russian general has accused NATO of setting up a naval force in the Black Sea under the ‘cover’ of aid deliveries to Georgia.
44 alegrias  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:59:40am

re: #42 Dr. Shalit

Cliff -

Whaddabout WILLIAM TECUMSAH SHERMAN?

-S-

* * *
We'll not see their like on the Democrat ticket, that's for sure.

45 Racer X  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 11:59:58am

re: #16 Sharmuta

Perhaps the approaching American ships caused a few minds to change.


Transcript of the phone call between Bush and Putin:

Bush: Pooty, we have a big problem. You need to get your troops back outta there and I mean now!

Putin: What are you talking about? We have every right to conquer, er, protect our interests.

Bush: Now listen here, you high tail it back North or we will see how good those F-22's are at high altitude target practice, savvy?

Putin: I think you are bluffing.

Bush: Check the Black Sea. See anything familiar?

46 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:00:14pm

re: #37 cliffster

Wow, you must be OLD! :^)

Why would you know such a thing?


It is from a historical house here in CT. He used to go and visit there. And yes, they have/had a tiny little sign that he used this outhouse.

[Link: www.historicnewengland.org...]

Nice place. We used to do Civil War living histories there.

47 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:00:40pm

re: #39 alegrias

Putin should pay for this personally out of the billions he has bilked from billionaire russians whose oil he stole.

NO blood for Oil, indeed. .

I can hear a Pin drop to the floor right now at A.N.S.W.E.R. headquarters.

48 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:00:48pm

re: #42 Dr. Shalit

Cliff -

Whaddabout WILLIAM TECUMSAH SHERMAN?

-S-

Careful! The ravaging of Georgia irony is way too thick to throw that name out there.

49 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:01:09pm

re: #40 Bobibutu

Kiss 'em goodbye. I willing to be wrong. Don't think so.

Putin can have them for all I care. The world knows what vicious bastards he and his soldiers are.

50 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:01:51pm

re: #25 tradewind

Yeah, now that the Olympics are about over, they don't want the the tee-vee eye turned their way.......
Their timing was pretty damn good, gotta say......

Yep, thats how I see it, too.

51 BignJames  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:01:52pm

re: #46 JohnnyReb

You're in CT? You a spy?

52 Racer X  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:02:04pm

re: #38 Egfrow

No one seems to want to look at a map these days.

Check Google maps. Georgia is completely blank. Odd.

53 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:02:13pm

re: #16 Sharmuta

Perhaps the approaching American ships caused a few minds to change.

They know that in any conventional fight that they are going to get their asses handed to them.

54 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:02:30pm

re: #10 daddyo

Gollum, the evil one


The next Harry Potter Movie:
Dobby the Kremlin Elf and the Prisoners of Abkhazia

55 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:02:37pm

re: #51 BignJames

You're in CT? You a spy?


Dang! I have been found out! I thought my cover was good, but apparently it was not good enough.

56 Shug  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:02:43pm

See, Biden is working out already

/

57 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:05pm

The scope and scale of the withdrawal is a signal that Russia will settle, for the time being, for mastery of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They will allow traffic to resume on the East-West highway through Gori, and they will allow the RR bridge they blew to be rebuilt. They might even allow the pipeline from Azerbaijan to Turkey to resume operation.

The Russians consider that Volks-Russe anywhere are citizens of Russia and under the protection (and sovereignty) of the Russian state. This rule came in handy for the Third Reich, and it served to provide diplomatic cover for the remilitarization of the Rhineland, the annexation of Austria, the annexation of the Sudeten, and finally for the annexation of the rest of Czechoslovakia. These steps came sequentially, with intervals of make-nice talk in between, rather than all at one bite. If Germany had not gone a bite too far and invaded Poland, Hitler would have brought off a nifty land grab.

Somebody may have been reading history and admiring the tactic. Let's hope somebody else has been reading history and drawing a cautionary lesson. Even if war is not the answer to the first bite, there has to be a price of some sort for that bite, and war has to be on the table as a possible response, should the biting cross a clearly drawn line in the sand.

Still, it's reckless beyond words [as well as, shall we say, ethically challenged] to bait the bear by taking military action against ethnic Russian civilians, without a real military. Think a few moves ahead!

58 Deaddog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:09pm

The Russian military was revealed as a strawman. They couldn't support a power projection, and this is the best option. Better to save face when apparently bowing to world opinion than to lose face in being stymied by a supposedly weaker adversary. But this is now the dangerous time: having been revealed as a strawman, there is no way that Putin is going to allow that state of affairs to continue. I would predict that besides a massive revamping of the conventional military that a variety of non-conventional options are now on the table in order to prevent against the supposed incursion of both the West and the East (the typical Russian paranoid nightmare).

59 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:11pm

re: #12 Occasional Reader

Poti is what I'm most concerned with. That's where an East-West shooting confrontation could be most easily sparked, if the Russians attempted to interfere with the heavily-armed aid convoy.

We need to occupy the Port O' Poti.


/ducks, runs

60 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:20pm

re: #33 cliffster

Just ask Ulysses S. Grant.

It was Sherman that went "Marchin' thru Georgia".
His troops did a fair share of burning and plundering, too.
But that was a different war.

61 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:30pm

re: #43 Egfrow

Yeah- something about sending war ships to deliver aide just seems to ooze ass kicking potential.

62 swamprat  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:03:51pm

They didn't want to lose any more jets before their sales fell to Edsel levels.

63 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:04pm

re: #49 MandyManners

Putin can have them for all I care. The world knows what vicious bastards he and his soldiers are.

We'll see Russian knock offs of them soon.

64 Catttt  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:10pm

re: #35 JohnnyReb

I sat on the same seat in an outhouse that he did. Truth.

How do you know? Plaque? Initials carved on door? In a museum? Curious.

65 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:18pm

re: #29 Neo Con since 9-11

Wasn't South Ossetia already part of Georgia? How do you invade a province in your own country?

That would be like the United States Army invading California.

[Which wouldn't be a bad thing, you know.]

66 doriangrey  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:19pm

re: #43 Egfrow

Hey come on.... Dont we always deliver humanitarian aid on Agies class destroyers....

67 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:28pm

re: #54 Colonel Panik

The next Harry Potter Movie:
Dobby the Kremlin Elf and the Prisoners of Abkhazia

Which one's which?

68 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:35pm
69 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:04:41pm

re: #48 cliffster

Careful! The ravaging of Georgia irony is way too thick to throw that name out there.

Cliff -

Glad you "Got" the Irony. AND really too bad that the Georgians were unable or unwilling to blow up the mountain passes. Hopefully this "unpleasantness" will be over soon.

-S-

70 BignJames  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:05:00pm

re: #55 JohnnyReb

Your nic might have blown your cover.

71 alegrias  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:05:03pm

someone here has the TV on, I can hear Obama blowing smoke...

72 Catttt  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:05:17pm

re: #48 cliffster

Careful! The ravaging of Georgia irony is way too thick to throw that name out there.

It is, but I admit I have repeatedly thought of General Sherman for this past week.

73 Catttt  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:06:35pm

re: #71 alegrias

someone here has the TV on, I can hear Obama blowing smoke...

"But I thought he quit! /

74 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:06:38pm

re: #60 Son of the Black Dog

It was Sherman that went "Marchin' thru Georgia".
His troops did a fair share of burning and plundering, too.
But that was a different war.

See my #48.. I couldn't bring myself to make the actual Sherman reference. Likely a lot of Lizard ancestors would groan loudly.

75 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:06:47pm

re: #39 alegrias

This should not stand. Putin should be hauled into the international court like Karadzic was--another butchering bastard scoundrel hiding in plain sight.

I wouldn't bother with a trial.

76 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:07:08pm

re: #43 Egfrow

Thats the same 'top Russian General' who threatened to nuke Poland a week ago ...
Seems they only have the one!

77 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:07:11pm

re: #62 swamprat

They didn't want to lose any more jets before their sales fell to Edsel levels.

You need to read Aviation Week more. They've been selling oodles of Sukhoi Flankers to both the Chinese and the Indians. The Russian Air Force is having trouble getting the latest jets since they are all being sold overseas.

Oddly enough we may end up with Indians flying Russian jets fighting along side us against Paki islamists. We did joint exercises/mock combat with the Indians a few years ago.

78 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:07:58pm

re: #63 Bobibutu

We'll see Russian knock offs of them soon.

Maybe Roman Abramov can buy them some.

79 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:08:03pm

Putin as a lot to loose, All the oil riches and mineral deposit industries are being divvied up to his Cronies to keep them loyal. The rest is being spent on defense upgrades. His cronies are spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave in Bangkok. The money won't last and is being tremendously wasted like buying 31 inch rims for the stolen Humvees and 150K watches and billion dollar mansions. Such is the extravagance of the Russian aristocracy of old Russia.

If a strangle hold was put onto Putin economically the money would dry up faster than bottle of vodka on Putin's table.

80 BackwardsBoy  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:08:39pm

I never, ever thought I'd hear the term "Russian checkpoint" again in my lifetime. Guess that just proves that what is old is new again, especially when it comes down to the Big Bear and its' renewed hunger for power and control. Curiously absent from the news on this is the combat status of our troops there. Seems I remember hearing we were over there training some of their troops.

81 Lawrior  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:08:57pm

re: #33 cliffster

Just ask Ulysses S. Grant.

So, Russia has to go through the Louisiana swamps after cutting off the supply lines? That'll take a lot longer.

82 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:09:00pm

re: #49 MandyManners

Hope they keep the Humvees. Think how demoralizing it will be to the Russian troops when they compare the Humvees to their own shoddy equipment.

83 swamprat  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:09:05pm

The noble duke of York, he had ten thousand men
He marched them up the hill
And then he marched them down again
And when you're up you're up
And when you're down, you're down
And when you're only half way up
You're neither up nor down


A song about a siege that was curtailed.
84 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:09:41pm

re: #77 Colonel Panik

Oddly enough we may end up with Indians flying Russian jets fighting along side us against Paki islamists. We did joint exercises/mock combat with the Indians a few years ago.

Goofy rules IIRC but the Indian pilots did quite well against us.

85 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:10:04pm

re: #63 Bobibutu

We'll see Russian knock offs of them soon.

The Hummerovitch! All parts falling off this vehicle are of handcrafted Russian quality, tovarisch.

86 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:10:15pm

re: #76 yma o hyd

Thats the same 'top Russian General' who threatened to nuke Poland a week ago ...
Seems they only have the one!

Nah, He just owns about 12 or 20 factories Putin gave him as a gift.

87 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:10:27pm

re: #82 Son of the Black Dog

Hope they keep the Humvees. Think how demoralizing it will be to the Russian troops when they compare the Humvees to their own shoddy equipment.

There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

88 Deaddog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:10:47pm

re: #83 swamprat

"A song about a siege that was curtailed."

Actually a song about an exceedingly poor command and control structure, but same difference.

89 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:10:57pm

re: #53 The Other Les

They know that in any conventional fight that they are going to get their asses handed to them.

In a general war in that region the Russian Black Sea fleet would have a brief, but exciting, existence.

90 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:11:22pm

re: #52 Racer X

Check Google maps. Georgia is completely blank. Odd.


As well as Armenia, Azerbaijan and Cyprus.
Aerial and terrain views show up.

91 tradewind  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:11:41pm

re: #71 alegrias

That loud noise is just The One poppin' his Nicorette.
Michelle should have checked him first.

92 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:11:44pm

The Russians destruction of military equipment and facilities give Georgia the ability to lobby NATO, and other, countries for a re-arm. Which they really need.

93 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:02pm

re: #84 Bobibutu

Oddly enough we may end up with Indians flying Russian jets fighting along side us against Paki islamists. We did joint exercises/mock combat with the Indians a few years ago.

Goofy rules IIRC but the Indian pilots did quite well against us.

I would not be surprised if the Indians installed Israeli avionics in those Flankers. The Flanker is a formidable airframe. With Israeli avionics it would be a tough opponent for just about anything except the Raptor.

94 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:07pm

re: #80 BackwardsBoy

I never, ever thought I'd hear the term "Russian checkpoint" again in my lifetime. Guess that just proves that what is old is new again, especially when it comes down to the Big Bear and its' renewed hunger for power and control. Curiously absent from the news on this is the combat status of our troops there. Seems I remember hearing we were over there training some of their troops.

I was very surprised that it ever disappeared in the first place. No matter who has been in power, Russian aims and foreign policy have remained the same for over 100 years.

95 doriangrey  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:12pm

re: #87 MandyManners

There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

Hmmm he says... whilst imagining Mandy whacking herself with her notorious clue-by-four....

96 Lawrior  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:19pm

re: #87 MandyManners

There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

And here it is:
In Soviet Russia, equipment compare YOU!

97 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:30pm

re: #64 Catttt

How do you know? Plaque? Initials carved on door? In a museum? Curious.

Historical House.

98 jcm  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:40pm

re: #84 Bobibutu

Oddly enough we may end up with Indians flying Russian jets fighting along side us against Paki islamists. We did joint exercises/mock combat with the Indians a few years ago.

Goofy rules IIRC but the Indian pilots did quite well against us.

Yeah they kicks us pretty good, re-learning the ACM lesson we learned in 'Nam again.

The deal was our guys didn't have AWACS, it was a straight up knife fight. Our guys had become reliant on the AWACS advantage, and the close in skills are dropping again. This time we got the message, and ACM training has gone up.

99 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:45pm

re: #77 Colonel Panik

Col. -

Amazing that the Russians still sell their NEW Stuff to India. Don't have to look for captured stuff anymore, do we?

-S-

100 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:12:48pm

In soviet russia, hum vees you.

101 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:08pm

re: #92 Quilly Mammoth

The Russians destruction of military equipment and facilities give Georgia the ability to lobby NATO, and other, countries for a re-arm. Which they really need.

When you loose a footing after you sucker punch someone, it's almost impossible to get it back.

102 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:14pm

re: #78 MandyManners

Maybe Roman Abramov can buy them some.

Doiubt it somehow ... because of this, which i linked yesterday, and that - who wants to stick his hard-earned billions into that sort of country?
Especially since other, 'former' billionaires are now languishing in prison ...

103 Lawrior  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:22pm

re: #94 galloping granny

I was very surprised that it ever disappeared in the first place. No matter who has been in power, Russian aims and foreign policy have remained the same for over 100 years.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
-- Mark Twain

104 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:23pm

re: #99 Dr. Shalit

Col. -

Amazing that the Russians still sell their NEW Stuff to India. Don't have to look for captured stuff anymore, do we?

-S-

I read somewhere that the USAF actually bought a few Flankers direct from the Russkies during the Yeltsin years. They are probably in a hangar at Nellis.

105 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:40pm

Check out MS maps.

[Link: maps.live.com...]

106 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:14:47pm

re: #71 alegrias

someone here has the TV on, I can hear Obama blowing smoke...

Better than having him smoke blow.

107 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:15:26pm

re: #85 Occasional Reader

lol

108 doriangrey  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:16:17pm

re: #104 Colonel Panik

I read somewhere that the USAF actually bought a few Flankers direct from the Russkies during the Yeltsin years. They are probably in a hangar at Nellis.

You mean spread all over the floor in a hangar at Nellis right?

109 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:16:22pm

re: #102 yma o hyd

Doiubt it somehow ... because of this, which i linked yesterday, and that - who wants to stick his hard-earned billions into that sort of country?
Especially since other, 'former' billionaires are now languishing in prison ...

Isn't Putin his mentor?

110 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:16:39pm

re: #88 Deaddog

"A song about a siege that was curtailed."

Actually a song about an exceedingly poor command and control structure, but same difference.

And it shows the typical Brits squaddie humour, which has been going strong for centuries ...

111 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:16:53pm

Good grief, Obama officially announcing Biden now. Claiming Biden is responsible for telling Putin to pull the Russian troops back.

112 Deaddog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:18:16pm

re: #110 yma o hyd

And it shows the typical Brits squaddie humour, which has been going strong for centuries ...

I hadn't considered this. It's actually a historical validation of the extraordinary utility of competent non-coms. Nice job.

113 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:18:20pm

re: #98 jcm

Yeah they kicks us pretty good, re-learning the ACM lesson we learned in 'Nam again.

The deal was our guys didn't have AWACS, it was a straight up knife fight. Our guys had become reliant on the AWACS advantage, and the close in skills are dropping again. This time we got the message, and ACM training has gone up.

Bingo. Paging Col. Boyd ...

114 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:18:58pm

re: #108 doriangrey

You mean spread all over the floor in a hangar at Nellis right?

They may have taken one apart but they article I read seemed the think they were being used in an OPFOR type training role and were flyable.

115 alegrias  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:18:59pm

Aw jeez, "Joe Biden is a Statesman"!

Joe Biden doesn't hide behind bluster

Joe Biden will make a GREAT vice president...

Isn't anyone else listening to Obama make the case for Joe Biden?

Live blog please, I can't stand it.

116 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:01pm

re: #80 BackwardsBoy

Curiously absent from the news on this is the combat status of our troops there. Seems I remember hearing we were over there training some of their troops.

I heard a news report that they had been airlifted out as soon as the shooting started.

117 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:20pm

re: #10 daddyo

Gollum, the evil one

That's awesome.

118 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:33pm

re: #111 Neo Con since 9-11

Good grief, Obama officially announcing Biden now. Claiming Biden is responsible for telling Putin to pull the Russian troops back.

Wow! They really DO believe that they are superior beings and that we're all just a bunch of idiots!

What a bunch of ZEROES.

119 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:35pm

re: #104 Colonel Panik

I read somewhere that the USAF actually bought a few Flankers direct from the Russkies during the Yeltsin years. They are probably in a hangar at Nellis.

Colonel -

For the hell of it, and you might know, whatever happened to India's in house aircraft manufacturing. Thought that at one time they built a fighter of their own.

-S-

120 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:48pm

I detect a lack luster crowd.

121 Bobibutu  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:19:59pm

re: #93 Colonel Panik

Interesting and probable as well.

122 Racer X  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:20:07pm

re: #111 Neo Con since 9-11

Good grief, Obama officially announcing Biden now. Claiming Biden is responsible for telling Putin to pull the Russian troops back.

Wow. Dude has balls.

123 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:20:18pm

re: #115 alegrias

Aw jeez, "Joe Biden is a Statesman"!

Joe Biden doesn't hide behind bluster

Joe Biden will make a GREAT vice president...

Isn't anyone else listening to Obama make the case for Joe Biden?

Live blog please, I can't stand it.

Fuck, no. I've had enough of that pip-squeak.

124 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:20:54pm

Biden about to open his pie hole

125 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:02pm

B is not for Barry, B is for Boring

126 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:05pm

re: #109 MandyManners

Isn't Putin his mentor?

Well, lets say he's letting The Motherland keep quite a lot of the dosh he makes - the rest he spends on superyachts, super-paintings, super-wives and British football clubs ... and on security!

127 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:07pm

re: #111 Neo Con since 9-11

Good grief, Obama officially announcing Biden now. Claiming Biden is responsible for telling Putin to pull the Russian troops back.

For real? That's an out-right lie!

128 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:10pm

re: #118 The Other Les

Wow! They really DO believe that they are superior beings and that we're all just a bunch of idiots!

What a bunch of ZEROES.

Now THAT bumper stickers works for me!

129 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:12pm

In order to get a glimpse into the Mind of Putin, you have to know how the mind of a KGB agent thinks.

Interview with ex KGB Yuri Bezmenov
KGB interest of Yoga and Mediation

KGB & Soviet tactics of Subversion

130 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:13pm

OK Everyone -

Sen. Obama had a "Cheneyan" Slip - Damn near introduced Sen. Biden as the next PRESIDENT of the US! What a maroon!

-S-

131 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:34pm

re: #126 yma o hyd

Well, lets say he's letting The Motherland keep quite a lot of the dosh he makes - the rest he spends on superyachts, super-paintings, super-wives and British football clubs ... and on security!

He is a cutie.

132 JohnnyReb  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:21:51pm

re: #120 witness

I detect a lack luster crowd.


I have seen zero shots of the crowd. Why aren't they panning the crowd? Oh and now the Lincoln thing comes out.

133 alegrias  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:22:11pm

re: #130 Dr. Shalit

OK Everyone -

Sen. Obama had a "Cheneyan" Slip - Damn near introduced Sen. Biden as the next PRESIDENT of the US! What a maroon!

-S-

* * *
Freudian you mean, still looking for daddy in all the wrong places!

134 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:22:15pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

135 Occasional Reader  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:22:23pm

re: #124 Neo Con since 9-11

Biden about to open his pie hole

Settle in.

Better still, switch off.

136 Halman  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:22:39pm

Obama just introduced Biden as the next President Of the United States.
Then quickly changed it to Vice President....lol

137 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:22:47pm

re: #111 Neo Con since 9-11

Good grief, Obama officially announcing Biden now. Claiming Biden is responsible for telling Putin to pull the Russian troops back.

He cannot be seeerious!
Biden tells Putin, and Putin does it?

Goodness gracious me ...

138 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:23:56pm

As fired up as a wet towel

139 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:24:11pm

re: #99 Dr. Shalit

Col. -

Amazing that the Russians still sell their NEW Stuff to India. Don't have to look for captured stuff anymore, do we?

-S-


India is _still_ trying to overcome significant design flaws in the T-90. Just this past week India overcame the final challenges to start significant domestic production which should end their dependence on Russian ammo, for example.

140 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:24:19pm

re: #102 yma o hyd

Doiubt it somehow ... because of this, which i linked yesterday, and that - who wants to stick his hard-earned billions into that sort of country?
Especially since other, 'former' billionaires are now languishing in prison ...

There are also problems with Gazprom - ?BP being ripped off of their share, something like that.

141 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:24:28pm

re: #119 Dr. Shalit

Colonel -

For the hell of it, and you might know, whatever happened to India's in house aircraft manufacturing. Thought that at one time they built a fighter of their own.

-S-

And if I recall correctly it was overweight, over budget, and over due for deployment.

Then there was the Ajeet.

142 valkyrie  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:25:09pm

re: #133 alegrias

He almost made the same mistake earlier in his speech but caught himself. Very funny. Freudian, indeed.

143 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:25:11pm

re: #130 Dr. Shalit

OK Everyone -

Sen. Obama had a "Cheneyan" Slip - Damn near introduced Sen. Biden as the next PRESIDENT of the US! What a maroon!

-S-

I wonder how fast that will be on youtube

144 offendi  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:25:34pm

On Georgia I believe that this behind the scenes, works for both the USA and Russia. Things are more sophisticated and cynical than they seem.

America now has cover for Iraq and in the future Iran, and Russia has shown the former eastern bloc that it should still be paid attention to and Russian nationalism and prestige in the region has been restored by bringing Georgia low.

Putin can even claim bona fides with the future McCain administration by helping McCain in his election battle with Obama.

145 yma o hyd  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:26:21pm

re: #140 galloping granny

There are also problems with Gazprom - ?BP being ripped off of their share, something like that.

Yep - the director of the Russian BP division was declared persona non grata, he came home a few days before the Olympics ...
And the oil and gas going through that Georgian pipeline ... is to a great part owned by BP ...

146 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:26:48pm

Interview with Former KGB Spy, Professor Oleg Kalugin

147 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:26:57pm

Biden on McCain: "He has to decide, which of my nine kitchen tables should I sit at..." So was that John McCain that just got back from vacationing at an elite beach in Hawaii? Does John McCain have a brother living in a shack? What a dick.

148 Colonel Panik  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:27:23pm

re: #119 Dr. Shalit

Colonel -

For the hell of it, and you might know, whatever happened to India's in house aircraft manufacturing. Thought that at one time they built a fighter of their own.

-S-

Yes they did. The Hindustan Aircraft MARUT. Designed by Kurt Tank, the German aircraft designer who was responsible for the Focke-Wulfe 190 among other infamous Luftwaffe planes. Hindustan is building a new plane that seems to be derivative of the Israeli copies/upgrade of the French Mirage III..can't remember the name of either at the moment. Delta wing. Would not surprise me a bit if Israeli engineers are assisting.

Kurt Tank worked in both India and Argentina after the war.

IIRC Tank designed a twin turboprop counter insurgency aircraft for the Argies. Called the Pucara if memory serves correct. Similar in concept to the OV-10 Bronco of the Vietnam era but with a convential T-tail instead of the Bronco's twin-boom arrangement.

149 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:27:25pm

He wants to level with the America people. How many years has he been in politics?

150 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:28:06pm

re: #119 Dr. Shalit

Colonel -

For the hell of it, and you might know, whatever happened to India's in house aircraft manufacturing. Thought that at one time they built a fighter of their own.

-S-

I'm not sure about an Indian developed fighter, but they do (did?) have a MIG-21 plant.

151 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:28:24pm

re: #133 alegrias

alegrias-

1. After all of the accusations that VP Cheney runs GWB's show - I MEANT WHAT I SAID!

2. Sen. Biden in his speech has declared Class War, and repeated the claptrap of our "position in the world." Here we go again!

-S-

152 cliffster  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:28:26pm

He is trying to have charisma. He doesn't. It's painful to watch.

153 Deaddog  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:29:02pm

re: #144 offendi

I think you may have read "1984" one too many times. While international cooperation between the West and East is not unheard of, the Russian Federation would like nothing more than for us to stay very, very far away.

This little bit of fantasy is akin to saying that the Iranians were trying to help Reagan get elected by holding hostages. The Iranians could have given a rat's ass, as long as we were hurting, and I can't imagine the Russians would see it any other way. It's just that they're the ones hurting right now.

154 freetoken  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:29:19pm

Since a major strategic goal was accomplished, why would they need to keep troops in Gori any longer?

155 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:29:33pm

re: #119 Dr. Shalit

Colonel -

For the hell of it, and you might know, whatever happened to India's in house aircraft manufacturing. Thought that at one time they built a fighter of their own.

-S-

Yet another joint production project between India and Russia to produce the Mig 35. Real quality issues that are pissing the Indians off. To that end SAAB is working on a deal to have Indian built over 100 of the Gripen. Which should work well for SAAB because they are also wanting to produce and sell the Gripen to Switzerland and other countries.

156 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:29:38pm

re: #152 cliffster

The funny thing is the MSM is sewing their own seeds of destruction. They plaster these guys 24x7 on the tube and the more air time you give them, the more they look like utter fools.

157 Egfrow  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:32:06pm

re: #156 witness

The funny thing is the MSM is sewing their own seeds of destruction. They plaster these guys 24x7 on the tube and the more air time you give them, the more they look like utter fools.

They only look like fools to those who can have independent thought. Liberals are not known to have much of that trait.

158 witness  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:32:56pm

They claim McCain is too old, but these two look burnt out already

159 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:33:38pm

re: #154 freetoken

Since a major strategic goal was accomplished, why would they need to keep troops in Gori any longer?

That was not their ultimate goal.

160 galloping granny  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:35:15pm

re: #156 witness

The funny thing is the MSM is sewing their own seeds of destruction. They plaster these guys 24x7 on the tube and the more air time you give them, the more they look like utter fools.

I read an article (politics, about Obama) that somebody posted from Yahoo News a little bit ago. Every single on of the stories at the bottom had to do with Obama or Biden. Not so much as one headline about McCain. And they wonder why we think know they are biased.

161 offendi  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:36:57pm

You may quote me at your leisure but the selection of Biden establishes that Obama will lose in the fall.

Taking an establishment, old politics figure as your v.p. shows there is no public confidence by polling in Obama's ability to do the job. Biden's track record, past statements, and arrogance can be easily sliced and diced. The Clintons will be actively working to undermine Obama in order for Hillary to run in 2012 and Biden on the down low will get an offer of a cabinet post in a Hills 2012 administration.

Slow John will clean up with a choice of Romney, because he will then cover the economy and national security fronts.

Finally one thing that is missing from a sophisticated consideration of the equation is the African-American political establishment. Obama creates a problem for the entrenched "grievance" elites, which supported Hillary. In a so-called post-racial Obama administration they would lose their power and reason for existence. While they may have racial pride in a half-African-American candidate, expect them not to move heaven and earth for Obama. An old white-man President for 4 years, followed by a Hillary administration works much better for them and perpetuating their power.

162 freetoken  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:37:32pm

re: #159 galloping granny

They've been working on the Kazakhs ever since the large oil field was discovered there a few years ago. There has been a running tussle over how the Kazakhstan was going to pipe the oil out: through Russia, the BTC, or east (to China, which is in the cards anyway to some degree.)

163 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:39:39pm

re: #148 Colonel Panik

Yes they did. The Hindustan Aircraft MARUT.

Hindustan Aeronautics is working on a design for a medium combat airraft capable of ground attack, but that may end up being the Gripen. HA does produce a delta wing light fighter. No tail and it uses GE engines. Similar role as teh F-16.

164 offendi  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:40:37pm

re: #153 Deaddog

I think you may have read "1984" one too many times. While international cooperation between the West and East is not unheard of, the Russian Federation would like nothing more than for us to stay very, very far away.

This little bit of fantasy is akin to saying that the Iranians were trying to help Reagan get elected by holding hostages. The Iranians could have given a rat's ass, as long as we were hurting, and I can't imagine the Russians would see it any other way. It's just that they're the ones hurting right now.

Deaddog-

I have read 1984 only twice, and I think it is somewhat naive to believe the US and Russia have not and do not negotiate and establish acceptable spheres of influence in their respective regions of the world. But of course opinions can differ. Thanks for your reply.

165 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:40:46pm

re: #148 Colonel Panik

Yes they did. The Hindustan Aircraft MARUT. Designed by Kurt Tank, the German aircraft designer who was responsible for the Focke-Wulfe 190 among other infamous Luftwaffe planes. Hindustan is building a new plane that seems to be derivative of the Israeli copies/upgrade of the French Mirage III..can't remember the name of either at the moment. Delta wing. Would not surprise me a bit if Israeli engineers are assisting.

Kurt Tank worked in both India and Argentina after the war.

IIRC Tank designed a twin turboprop counter insurgency aircraft for the Argies. Called the Pucara if memory serves correct. Similar in concept to the OV-10 Bronco of the Vietnam era but with a convential T-tail instead of the Bronco's twin-boom arrangement.

Colonel -

Thanks - thought it was a Kurt Tank design - didn't want to say so without researching. Politics aside, Tank was a gifted designer. The Israelis had an aircraft called "Kfir" which in Hebrew means something like "Lion Cub." As I recall it was based on the Mirage V airframe, stretched/widened to accomodate the then current US made J Series engines. Kind of like what a good tuner would do to put a small-block Chevy or Ford engines into a Renault.

-S-

166 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:48:30pm

re: #155 Quilly Mammoth

Yet another joint production project between India and Russia to produce the Mig 35. Real quality issues that are pissing the Indians off. To that end SAAB is working on a deal to have Indian built over 100 of the Gripen. Which should work well for SAAB because they are also wanting to produce and sell the Gripen to Switzerland and other countries.

Quilly -

If SAAB trusts India to build the Grippen - I am impressed.

-S-

167 ggt  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:51:30pm

re: #87 MandyManners

it has something to do with "body armor", I think.

168 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 12:57:05pm

IIRC they will offer two variants of the Gripen, one more advanced than the other. The more advanced version would be sold to the Swiss etc. SAABs idea is that they have to turn over the tech so that the purchasing country can do the complete life cycle maintenance anyway. If it helps the deal for it to be assembled in India...it's what India has been doing (or trying to do) with Russia as well.

169 Perry  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 1:07:29pm
170 Barbara Skolaut  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 1:34:51pm
The Russian military has withdrawn a large part of its occupying forces in Georgia

No doubt at the request of Obambi.

/sarcasm :-(

171 Barbara Skolaut  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 1:37:26pm

#14 kuffar : More than likely it was the massed outrage of the UN, NATO and world opinion....

Forgot your sarcasm tags, eh?

**snort**

172 LEGION  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 2:08:47pm

re: #35 JohnnyReb

No shit?!

173 Oldbluesboy  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 2:09:23pm

Unlike many of us, Putin has studied the politics of Ronald Reagan. Pooty is a sly politician and a proven killer. In his mind, the U.S.S.R. never went away.

174 JHW  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 2:42:38pm

Some of are NATO allies are stepping up, there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

In addition, a strong NATO naval group passed throught the Straits into the Black Sea to assist with the humanitarian effort heading towards Poti which include several strong surface combatants. Those vessels include a Spanish AEGIS vessel, the F100 class Frigate, F102 Bourbon, a strong German Bremen Class frigate, the F214 Luebeck, and a Polish vessel that is a former Oliver Hazard Perry Class US Friagte, upgraded for the Polish, the Polaski. Those vessels are going to be very capable of very strong air defense, surface action, anti-submarine warfare, and ground support...in addition to the humanitarian support.

The link also details the US naval ships.
Georgia Conflict

175 Picayune  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 2:45:35pm

re: #12 Occasional Reader

Agree. I got an email on 8/21 from our friend, and former house guest, Gagik, a M.D. in Armenia, who is just now moving his family to Canada.

He reports that the port of Poti is a key to the whole of Georgia and Armenia. Through, Poti the whole region is supplied by sea, so it's a critical city to control. He states that Georgia will pressure Armenia to support it's stand against Russia via trade sanctions, as does Russia to it's former satellites.

Gagik paints a bleak picture. Russia is clearly violating it's peace terms w/ Zarkozi by maintaining troops in Poti. Suggest we/NATO make a stand on this issue and use force, if need be to check Putin at this stage of his newest adventure. Weakness here will invite far more trouble later throughout the Eastern EU. NATO has 26 armed nations, Putin has one. Play our hand, now, Bush!

176 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 3:58:10pm

re: #174 JHW

Some of are NATO allies are stepping up, there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

Hoo-ha! Put that much stuff in one place, and it will be used.

177 canadianconservative  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 4:14:43pm

re: #30 Random63

I wonder what was told to the Russians behind the scenes by our folks. Something pretty ominous I would assume to make them back down

The Eastern European nations haven't forgotten life under Russian rule. They ran to us so fast and made missile agreements so fast I think it stunned the Russians. They now know if they want to take Ukraine and Poland, they will have a much larger fight on their hands than they did with Georgia. Ukraine and Poland will not go quietly into the night and I think Georgia will be the same way once we help them rebuild. Eastern Europe has said to the the Russians, "Nyet!" in a very loud voice.
IMHO

I think Russia might have wanted to try its luck with the Baltics and Ukraine, but given the fact that the Polish people led by Karol Wojtyla and Lech Walesa & others were the catalyst that brought down their empire, I don't think they WANT Poland back, unless there was a plan whereby the people was to be condemned to destruction. So long as the Catholic church remains strong in Poland, she will never go again quietly into captivity.

I can only hope that the US immediately moves into Georgi to help them rebuild infrastructure, and their military, and that georgia and Ukraine are immediately admitted to NATO.

Cheers to Saakashvili!

178 canadianconservative  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 4:20:09pm

re: #39 alegrias

Putin should pay for this personally out of the billions he has bilked from billionaire russians whose oil he stole.

NO blood for Oil, indeed. Did you see those poor third world Georgian women left homeless, caring for grandchildren who need vaccines.

Crimes against humanity committed in plain sight while the world watched the Olympics.

This should not stand. Putin should be hauled into the international court like Karadzic was--another butchering bastard scoundrel hiding in plain sight.


It seems Putin thought he'd just get away with it, but the swift and decisive reactions from Poland and Ukraine changed the game.
Russia can't afford to lose the port leases in sebastopol and odessa just yet.

Still I see Putin as a Hitlerian bastard who must be stopped. It can't be done militarily , but a coup might happen if Russia is starngled. Drill here and now, and developp alternative energy and get the price of their staple commodity lowered , and you'll have the women in the streets of Moscow and St.etersburg again with their empty pots.
And kick them out of the G8 and any other organization for civilized nations.

179 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 4:46:47pm

re: #178 canadianconservative

It seems Putin thought he'd just get away with it, but the swift and decisive reactions from Poland and Ukraine changed the game.

Same game, just a pause--an intermission--with kinetic words to follow from the sponsors of terror and oppression. Stay tuned.

180 canadianconservative  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 5:05:15pm

re: #179 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Same game, just a pause--an intermission--with kinetic words to follow from the sponsors of terror and oppression. Stay tuned.


Note that 9/11 happened AFTER Bush's buddy Pooty-poot came to power?

Could it be that the Russkies may have aided Mohammed Atta and co?

181 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 5:30:03pm

Anyone working with or aiding Iran over the past 30 years has been, at least, indirectly aiding damned near every islamofascist terrorist org that exists - barr none.

182 Rust Never Sleeps  Sat, Aug 23, 2008 5:33:41pm

re: #180 canadianconservative

World politics are far more complicated. Putin has fought a merciless war against the Chechens, and Russia has suffered from suicide attacks, bombings and hostage takings by 'militants'.

Remember the Beslan school hostage crisis: 186 children were killed by a local Al Quaeda branch.

183 hilljack  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:41:53am

It's not over by a long shot folks. Until the bears nose gets bloodied, I fear there will be more and more Russian "peace keeping" operations.

184 Jed  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 6:31:08am

Fraud. Russia has the US and Europe in an impossible spot with its money and control of energy.

This is in good part because in the past decade we refused to develop our own resources by locking up ANWR and coastal waters.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

20% off Easy Reading Programs and More at Hooked On Phonics
More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Lair of the odious neanderthal.


Apple TV Starting at $229 - 728x90