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Muslim Brotherhood's #2 Man Talks (Carefully) About Obama, CAIR

Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:04:57 am PDT

At PJ Media, the Egyptian Sandmonkey has an interesting interview with the man in line to become the next “Supreme Leader” of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammed Habib.

Notice how careful he is when the subject turns to the Council on American Islamic Relations and their connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.

Also notice: although he’s disturbed that Barack Obama has voiced strong support for Israel, he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

20080824MuslimBroHabib.jpg

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136 comments

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1 Macker  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:06:09am

He's larger than the al-Aqsa Mosque! Isn't that un-Islamic of him?

2 pat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:06:47am

Splitting Hair CAIRS

3 rorschach  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:06:52am
...he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

My thoughts exactly.

4 jcm  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:09:06am
SM: Is there a Muslim Brotherhood in the U.S.?

Mohamed Habib: I would say yes. There are Muslim Brotherhood members there.

SM: Then what are they doing there?

Mohamed Habib: No, there are already existing institutions; there are laws and a constitution that they operate under in order to have a role in serving the American society. They are part of the American society and they want to an active positive role in it, and a part of that is to spread a positive image of Islam along with its values, culture, history and teachings.

SM: This is naturally very important. Who represents you in the US?

Mohamed Habib: Well, there are there those who do represent us, who do that role.

SM: But it’s not CAIR, right? The Council for American Islamic Relations? Many people say that they are your front. Other people say that its ISNA. But back to CAIR, some people from the Muslim Brotherhood have denied having a connection with CAIR. Do they really represent you?

Mohamed Habib: Ehh, this is a sensitive subject, and it’s kind of problematic, especially after 9/11 …

SM: For them to say that there is a relationship between you two?

Mohamed Habib: Yes. You can say that.

5 Cognito  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:09:57am

Worthwhile enough interview, I guess.

But can this dude not come up with a better name than "Sandmonkey"? That's not cool, regardless of where he lives.

6 jaxgtr  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:10:05am

"he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected."

Shocking, just shocking

7 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:10:27am

In the name of God, the most merciful and benevolent. Smite these terrorist enablers with a lightning bolt or three.

8 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:11:47am
SM: This is naturally very important. Who represents you in the US?

Mohamed Habib: Well, there are there those who do represent us, who do that role.

SM: But it’s not CAIR, right? The Council for American Islamic Relations? Many people say that they are your front. Other people say that its ISNA. But back to CAIR, some people from the Muslim Brotherhood have denied having a connection with CAIR. Do they really represent you?

Mohamed Habib: Ehh, this is a sensitive subject, and it’s kind of problematic, especially after 9/11 …

SM: For them to say that there is a relationship between you two?

Mohamed Habib: Yes. You can say that.

Way to make him walk on eggshells, Sand Monkey! Good job.

9 perfectsense  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:12:09am

Isn't being named "supreme leader" an insult to the Mohammad and punishable by death?

10 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:12:33am

Waaay OT, the donks rules committee is wrangling on c-span.

11 nyc redneck  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:13:35am

look at that fckers eyes.
he's nuts.

12 winston06  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:14:34am

4 out of every 5 thugs like BH Obama

13 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:15:11am

re: #5 Cognito

I like his nic. But who knows- maybe he thinks you could have come up with a better nic too.

14 Maximu§  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:15:23am

assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

Sounds about right to me...

15 Cognito  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:16:06am

re: #13 Sharmuta

I like his nic. But who knows- maybe he thinks you could have come up with a better nic too.

It's not about 'better,' Sharmuta. It's not a matter of cleverness.

16 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:17:39am

OT
anyone watching denver on fox
can we now say let the games begin

17 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:18:03am
We incite the people — in Egypt for example — to donate money and care and understand about the Palestinian cause.

They incite the people- as if the koran wasn't enough.

18 Charles  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:20:12am

re: #5 Cognito

Worthwhile enough interview, I guess.

But can this dude not come up with a better name than "Sandmonkey"? That's not cool, regardless of where he lives.

You do realize he's Egyptian, right?

19 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:20:15am

re: #17 Sharmuta

They incite the people- as if the koran wasn't enough.

If only the people would get insight instead of incite!

/not holding my breath

20 lifeofthemind  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:20:40am

Not the same guy who interviewed the Congressthief about the cash in his freezer?

21 Cognito  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:21:15am

re: #18 Charles

You do realize he's Egyptian, right?

Yes, that's why I added, "no matter where he lives."

I get it. It's hip, it's ironic. But come on.

22 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:21:52am

I wonder which wing of the Brotherhood this guy belongs to.

23 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:22:04am

re: #19 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If only the people would get insight instead of incite

Now that was clever. +1.

24 kuffar  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:22:17am

re: #7 pingjockey

In the name of most Merciful Bush, smite these sonsofbitches with a nuclear bomb or two or thousand. In the name of the Oil, the Gas and the Nation, Amen. Nom nom nom.

25 Gordon Marock  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:22:40am

Is he indicating the size of his member in that picture?

26 Lawrior  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:23:01am

re: #2 pat

Splitting Hair CAIRS

Can we please? Perhaps with an axe or pipe or brick?

27 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:23:03am

re: #23 Sharmuta

Now that was clever. +1.

*un-manly blush*
Thank you

28 JSK1121  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:23:23am

I'd fill that Puzz-3D version of Al-Aqsa mosque with mini candies and let kids in Jerusalem have a great, first pinata experience.

29 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:23:48am

re: #24 kuffar
Heh.

30 Gumby  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:24:41am

I'm sure the black Howdy Doody and his 'foreign policy expert' Buffalo Bob will keep CAIR's profile below the radar.

After all, we can't be having the CAIR/Mus Bro'hood association with terrorists being nationally exposed.

31 RememberSekhmet?  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:24:44am

re: #24 kuffar

In the name of most Merciful Bush, smite these sonsofbitches with a nuclear bomb or two or thousand. In the name of the Oil, the Gas and the Nation, Amen. Nom nom nom.

*sniff* *sniff*

I smell patchouli. Is there a Moby in here?

32 Maximu§  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:24:45am

re: #11 nyc redneck

look at that fckers eyes.
he's nuts.

There will come a day when this gentleman is standing at his palace window enjoy the view, as his 11 year old wife serves him another cup of tea and he looks up just in time to see an American Hellfire missile cover the last 20 feet to his window.

33 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:24:47am

re: #25 Gordon Marock
Nope. The space in his skull his brain takes up. The rest is all bone.

34 Gordon Marock  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:25:44am

re: #33 pingjockey

Or, perhaps, the amount of humanity left in the jihadists' soul.

35 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:25:49am

re: #25 Gordon Marock

re: #33 pingjockey

You're both wrong. Thats the amount of tolerance the entire muslim world has for the rest of us

36 coquimbojoe  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:25:51am

re: #21 Cognito

Yes, that's why I added, "no matter where he lives."

I get it. It's hip, it's ironic. But come on.

You're being too sensitive. I call my kids affectionately 'monkey' all the time. He can call himself whatever he wants. I find 'Oil ticks' and the definitely pejorative 'sand n****r' to be offensive. Sandmonkey, is silly at worst.

37 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:26:22am

re: #35 sattv4u2
That much?!

38 Cognito  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:26:45am

Maybe I'm being too prickly about the name. I'd like to see more Middle Eastern blogs take positions like this. I just wonder whether 'Sandmonkey' is the way to do it, though.

It's the equivalent of a black American writing a blog for an Arabic-speaking audience and titling it "Rantings of a n*****" or "Abd."

An irony too far, maybe. Or again, I could be way off in my assessment.

39 coquimbojoe  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:27:09am

re: #21 Cognito

Yes, that's why I added, "no matter where he lives."

I get it. It's hip, it's ironic. But come on.

But, I have too admit, I have been smiling about 'Clean and Jerk '08' since Friday.

40 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:27:11am

re: #37 pingjockey

That much?!

the picture was snapped as he was closing the gap

41 AG in Houston  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:27:24am

Just curious I guess but why does this guy have a model of the Al Aksa mosque?

Isn't it only the 3rd holiest site on Islam? Shouldn't he have the meteorite in Mecca in the middle of his office/living room?

42 sngnsgt  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:27:56am

OT

Are we going to get any hippie pictures from Denver? Ward Churchill is there passing around joints I'm sure. Is swollen scrotum man there too?

43 Cognito  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:28:32am

re: #36 coquimbojoe

You're being too sensitive. I call my kids affectionately 'monkey' all the time. He can call himself whatever he wants. I find 'Oil ticks' and the definitely pejorative 'sand n****r' to be offensive. Sandmonkey, is silly at worst.

No, it's a full-on slur. The blogger has just embraced it. And hey -- I can appreciate a zig against the predominant zag. So maybe I'm being too particular.

44 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:28:36am
SM: What are the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood?

Mohamed Habib: The Muslim Brotherhood has an Islamic, civilized, uplifting project that is based on the idea that Egypt needs to rise again to greatness, because in its rise it will uplift the entire Arab world with it. This of course requires the creation of a society that values justice, equality, and freedom, and what that entails in regards to respecting the will of the people in choosing their representatives or leaders

Interesting response. I thought equality was hara'am with women, dhimmis and infidels being worth less than a muslim man. I smell taqiyya.

45 coquimbojoe  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:28:44am

re: #42 sngnsgt

OT

Are we going to get any hippie pictures from Denver? Ward Churchill is there passing around joints I'm sure. Is swollen scrotum man there too?

No, I'm here in Vegas...... Oh, you mean...never mind!

46 RememberSekhmet?  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:29:09am

re: #42 sngnsgt

OT

Are we going to get any hippie pictures from Denver? Ward Churchill is there passing around joints I'm sure. Is swollen scrotum man there too?

Warnings if Scrote Man shows up. That goes far beyond NFSW to NSFFA

Not Safe for Fscking ANYWHERE!

47 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:29:09am

re: #42 sngnsgt

OT

Are we going to get any hippie pictures from Denver? Ward Churchill is there passing around joints I'm sure. Is swollen scrotum man there too?

He decided not to go, now that the airlines are charging for "extra baggage"

48 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:29:13am

re: #40 sattv4u2
Ahhhh. That makes more sense.
C'mon. I got laundry in, london broil marinating, where the hell are the uproars? Damn, I wanted mass seething moonbat hordes getting warmed up for Monday.

49 coquimbojoe  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:30:07am

re: #47 sattv4u2

He decided not to go, now that the airlines are charging for "extra baggage"

Nothing brings out the funny like inflated scrotums.

50 Gumby  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:31:12am

re: #42 sngnsgt

OT

Are we going to get any hippie pictures from Denver? Ward Churchill is there passing around joints I'm sure. Is swollen scrotum man there too?

The wife and I are contemplating (now) donning hazmat suits and Operation Chaos T-shirts to wade into the cesspool for pictures.... just haven't plucked up the courage yet....

51 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:32:26am

This weaseling reminds me of an episode of the Naked Archaeologist, where they were trying to figure out the exact location of the Holy of Holies, and they interviewed someone from the Waqf. He was asked whether he believed there really was a Temple on the mount. He weaseled just like this and wouldn't give a straight answer. Probabaly didn't want to say "No" on international TV.

I can't wait to see those mosques gone, but the best way would be with a real act of G-d - like an earthquake that topples them into the holes the Muslims dug underneath, thus forming the foundation for the Third Temple. Show the Muslims who worships the real G-d. (Hint - He isn't called "Allah")

52 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:32:30am

re: #50 Gumby
Go for it. Just stop by the local hunting store and get a couple cans of bear spray. That is supposed to be better than pepper spray!

53 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:32:34am

re: #48 pingjockey

Ahhhh. That makes more sense.
C'mon. I got laundry in, london broil marinating, where the hell are the uproars? Damn, I wanted mass seething moonbat hordes getting warmed up for Monday.

they'll be there ,,, in force ,, all week. As we speak, they are loading up their 1979 VW Buses with all the essentials. Weed, tie dyed T-Shirts, Army Surplus jackets/ medals/ hats

54 Syrah  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:32:55am

re: #38 Cognito

Maybe I'm being too prickly about the name. I'd like to see more Middle Eastern blogs take positions like this. I just wonder whether 'Sandmonkey' is the way to do it, though.

It's the equivalent of a black American writing a blog for an Arabic-speaking audience and titling it "Rantings of a n*****" or "Abd."

An irony too far, maybe. Or again, I could be way off in my assessment.

An Egyptian may have much less concern for things that we Americans might shy away from as ethnic slurs.

We have whole industries, schools of thought and political careers built on building ethnic guilt here in the states. Egypt's political environment is much less likely to reflect our views on such issues simply because it has a completely different history and political environment.

It is too easy sometimes to project our values on a foreign culture and to forget that their way of seeing the world is likely to be very different from our own.

55 Gumby  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:33:23am

re: #52 pingjockey

Go for it. Just stop by the local hunting store and get a couple cans of bear spray. That is supposed to be better than pepper spray!

Thanks for the info...

56 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:33:25am

re: #43 Cognito

No, it's a full-on slur. The blogger has just embraced it. And hey -- I can appreciate a zig against the predominant zag. So maybe I'm being too particular.

Uh- yeah. There might be a reason why a person would embrace a slur as their blogging name. It might even be well thought out and, dare I say it?, clever in their mind. Honestly- I doubt it was walked into lightly or with no knowledge of the implications.

57 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:33:49am

SO basically he's admitting that Muslims are pathological liars and can't be trusted when they say anything.

58 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:34:30am

re: #53 sattv4u2
Yeah, but I'll have to wait till I'm off work tomorrow and the rest of the week. I wanted hysteria today while bar b qing and having an adult beverage or 6. :)

59 sngnsgt  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:34:31am

re: #45 coquimbojoe

No, I'm here in Vegas...... Oh, you mean...never mind!


I LOVE Vegas, I'd be there, but a family illness brings me back to the frigid winters and humid summers of NW PA. When this family thing is over, I'm back to Vegas. I lived there for 11 years and there's nothing like Vegas! I lived on S Cimarron just off of W Charleston, I sold the house about 5 years ago and made out like a bandit! I still have cash in the bank making money for me when I go back!

60 sngnsgt  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:35:20am

re: #47 sattv4u2

He decided not to go, now that the airlines are charging for "extra baggage"

LOL! I'm stealing that one!

61 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:36:10am

Mrs. Obambi just landed in Denver. Whoop de damn doo.

62 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:36:11am

SM: The image of the Muslim Brotherhood in the U.S. and in other western countries — while we aren’t going to say it’s a bad one — is not the image you would like to portray for yourselves.

Mohamed Habib: That’s true!

Why aren't "we" going to say that? Fear of retribution? Hell ,, I'll say it!
HEY ,,,, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD ,,,, your "image" SUCKS

63 lifeofthemind  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:36:46am

re: #38 Cognito

There is a lot of potentially offensive terminology tossed around on conservative blogs for several reasons:
1. Traditional male locker room shortcut for assuring you're OK and in the pack. Beats sniffing tails.
2. Deliberate desire to prove that you are not PC liberal or otherwise a snob.
3. Laziness and knowledge that Mother isn't watching on the Internet.
4. Anger and frustration at the hypocrisy of left bloggers who engage in rampant racism and misogyny without a trace of irony.

Yes I am imperfect myself.

64 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:36:51am

re: #60 sngnsgt

LOL! I'm stealing that one!

send cash/ check or money order to my address!

65 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:36:54am

Cspan has recreate 68 march live on a internet video

66 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:12am

re: #61 pingjockey

Mrs. Obambi just landed in Denver. Whoop de damn doo.

where are they parking her broom?

67 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:19am

Oops, I stand corrected. He's saying that POLITICIANs are pathological liars and can't be trusted when they say anything.

68 Kragar (Proud to be kafir)  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:24am
although he’s disturbed that Barack Obama has voiced strong support for Israel, he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

Finally something the Muslim Brotherhood and I have common ground on. I think he's lying too!

69 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:38am

Damn, they keep cutting away.

70 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:42am

re: #14 Maximu§

assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

Sounds about right to me...

Barack Taqqiya Obama

71 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:43am

With all due respect to Sandmonkey, I think that my IQ level went down double digits while reading what Habib said.

72 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:37:43am

re: #53 sattv4u2

they'll be there ,,, in force ,, all week. As we speak, they are loading up their 1979 VW Buses with all the essentials. Weed, tie dyed T-Shirts, Army Surplus jackets/ medals/ hats

They'll be begging for gas halfway there.

73 sngnsgt  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:38:04am

re: #64 sattv4u2

LOL! I'll have to get back to you on that one, Disability doesn't pay much!

74 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:38:08am

re: #66 sattv4u2
She keeps it with her.

75 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:40:27am

Fox showing a USN DDG bringing it supplies to Georgia.
That one ship could probably take out the whole Russian Black Sea fleet by itself.

76 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:40:30am

re: #71 MandyManners

With all due respect to Sandmonkey, I think that my IQ level went down double digits while reading what Habib said.

I bet you're still above 167.

77 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:41:13am

re: #75 pingjockey

Fox showing a USN DDG bringing it supplies to Georgia.
That one ship could probably take out the whole Russian Black Sea fleet by itself.


Plus the sub(s) keeping an eye on her?

78 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:41:37am
They are part of the American society and they want to an active positive role in it, and a part of that is to spread a positive image of Islam along with its values, culture, history and teachings.


A. The Muslim Brotherhood is NOT a part of American society, sir.

B. I think you mean REPLACE American values et al with Islamic teachings.


Ain't.gonna.happen.

79 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:42:28am

Excellent interview, SM!

80 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:42:40am

Mohamed Habib: Hamas, like any Muslim Brotherhood entity, is not related to the other entities.

ummm,,, so let me get this right, Skippy. You're all entitys of the Muslim "Brotherhood', but non of them are related to each other!

Someone get Mr. Habib a dictionary!

BROTHERHOOD
:1. the condition or quality of being a brother or brothers.
2. the quality of being brotherly; fellowship.
3. a fraternal or trade organization.
4. all those engaged in a particular trade or profession or sharing a common interest or quality.
5. the belief that all people should act with warmth and equality toward one another, regardless of differences in race, creed, nationality,

81 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:43:15am

re: #75 pingjockey

Fox showing a USN DDG bringing it supplies to Georgia.
That one ship could probably take out the whole Russian Black Sea fleet by itself.

Maybe, but it could also probably be sunk in about fifteen seconds by tank fire, while it's within three miles of shore.

82 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:44:03am

OT: APOD shows a pretty picture today, tho it's from 1998, first light on one of the Andean 8-meter scopes.

83 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:44:27am

re: #77 Shay4l
I don't know if you can get a sub through the Bosporus(sp). It is shallow and I don't know if the powers that be would send one in. That said, one Burke class DDG and one LA class SSN could just tear the holy hell out of the Russian forces. Plus I'm sure the AF has some folks on alert too, just in case Ivan does something really, really stupid.

84 Colonel Panik  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:44:35am

Geez, look at his eyes. Freaky, man. He reminds me of Zawahiri.
But he doesn't have the prayer bump on his head. What's up with that?

WE WANT THE BUMP, GIVE US THE BUMP, WE NEED THE BUMP, GOTTA HAVE THAT BUMP!

85 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:45:28am

re: #81 itellu3times
Nope. T72 effective gun range less than 2000 meters.

86 Macker  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:46:06am

re: #70 Colonel Panik

Barack Taqqiya Obama

Exactly!

87 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:46:47am

re: #85 pingjockey

Nope. T72 effective gun range less than 2000 meters.

great ,,,,, now I gotta do math!

2000 meters ,,,,, three miles from shore ,,, there are 12 inches in a foot, ,,,,, carry the 1 ,,,,,

88 sngnsgt  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:46:51am

I'm taking my new puppy with me when I go back to Vegas. He is one of the best benefits of being an Epileptic. My new Golden Retriever puppy was free, and they're taking care of the training and helping w/ Vet bills.

89 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:48:41am

re: #85 pingjockey

Nope. T72 effective gun range less than 2000 meters.

This says max range 4500 meters, ship is a bigger target than another tank.

Though I was just guessing, isn't M-1 a lot longer? Too lazy to Google it ...

90 Mardukhai  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:49:44am

re: #88 sngnsgt

I know an epileptic who trains dogs.

91 occasional reader  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:50:17am

re: #76 Sharmuta

I bet you're still above 167.

I'll bet my IQ is higher than yours!

(channeling my inner Biden)

92 JeremyR  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:50:35am

re: #81 itellu3times

Maybe, but it could also probably be sunk in about fifteen seconds by tank fire, while it's within three miles of shore.

Soviet tanks have at best, a 120mm gun. Standard ammo is sabot rounds which are just a hard dart set into a piece of plaster or pop metal which falls away as soon as it exits the tube. Those mght penetrate the side armor, but most explosive ord is belowand would be safe, unlike a tank where the ammo is inside the turret.

93 offendi  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:51:49am

Shouldn't someone in Homeland Security be actively investigating who the Muslim Brotherhoods little friends are here in the USA? Is Club Gitmo full or something?

I think the MB guy is a little off-base since it will be President, ooops, Vice President Biden leading the country. Obama will go around making speeches and looking pretty. Kind of what they accused Cheney of doing with Bush. Barry would probably get lost going to the bathroom in the White House. Out of his league, the poor, potentially actually Kenyan or Indonesian, guy !

94 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:52:56am

A cursory search shows the M1A! Abrams, can be accurate to 4000m, so 3 miles is not outlandish. However, how many tanks would need to be massed and firing accurately to actually sink a cruiser?

95 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:53:34am

re: #92 JeremyR

Soviet tanks have at best, a 120mm gun. Standard ammo is sabot rounds which are just a hard dart set into a piece of plaster or pop metal which falls away as soon as it exits the tube. Those mght penetrate the side armor, but most explosive ord is belowand would be safe, unlike a tank where the ammo is inside the turret.

I assume they have a few HE rounds.

96 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:54:45am

re: #89 itellu3times
Max range is how far the shell will go. Effective range is what you can hit. M1s were making kills at over 2000 meters during GWI. T72(old sov. shit) were maybe effective at 1200 meters. They can up anchor fast if they have to, and they are probably at Condition II, which is all vital systems manned. Engineering, Weapons, Bridge, CiC. Don't envy those guys, probably port and starboard watches. 6 hrs on/6 hrs off.

97 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:55:25am

Some naval WW2 battles lasted hours with direct hits eventually sinking a large ship, using MUCH larger shells.

98 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:56:41am

re: #94 Shay4l
That is our top of the line stuff, which is state of the art. The Russian tank right now is a joke. They have some T90s but haven't seen one any where on the news or outside of a parade.

99 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:57:16am

We need a caption contest.

100 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:57:38am

Well crap guys. First time I ever helped derail a thread. Sorry folks.

101 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 11:58:18am

re: #99 Anthony (Los Angeles)
"Arafishs' thingy was this big."

102 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:00:31pm

re: #100 pingjockey

Well crap guys. First time I ever helped derail a thread. Sorry folks.


Are you kidding? ANYTHING other than Zerobama right now is like water after a logn walk in the hot sun.

103 Mardukhai  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:01:22pm

re: #89 itellu3times

For any gun, it depends on the trajectory you're using, and the sort of target you're firing at.

A tank penetrator round is fired on a flat trajectory. A tank would raise its gun to fire high explosive round. If fired at a ship (to use your example), the round would travel high in the air on a parabolic course, and would have a much greater range.

I don't know the maximum range of the L55 120 mm gun, although I am sure that it depends on the kind of ammunition fired and it's a lot more than 2,000 meters!

104 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:02:51pm

re: #102 Shay4l
Okay then. They did just show a helicopter shot of a protest in downtown Denver.

105 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:03:56pm

re: #103 Mardukhai
That is true. I have no damn idea how accurate a T72 120mm gun is. I was a squid.

106 Mardukhai  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:03:59pm

re: #80 sattv4u2

In one sence this is correct -- the Ikhwan/Brotherhood is a very loose collection of organizations. Even in the US, they tend to organize in ethnic/national groups.

Hamas is an outgrowth of the Palestinian Ikhwan.

BUT all of these groups support each other.

107 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:26:25pm

I'm no expert on any of this, tanks aren't designed to sink destroyers, what I really meant is that while it's in port or near enough, it's vulnerable to all sorts of nonsense, jihadis on rubber raft maybe a little less than previously but even so.

108 JeremyR  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:26:52pm

re: #95 itellu3times

I assume they have a few HE rounds.

Not sure what the armor thickness is on DDG Cruisers, but am certain a tank HE round would lack the power to penetrate it. They would need a HEAT high explosive anti tank, or HESH high explosive squash head round to have any effect. The Cruisers are built to withstand impaacts from heavy ship guns, and the T-72 are not up to the task.

On a side note, I heard a second hand story from a Navy guy who was on the Jersey. He claimed it was hit on his turret by an Exocet. The only damage was scorched paint.

109 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:29:23pm

re: #108 JeremyR
Sounds true. The Missouri took a hit from a kamikaze about 4 ft abouve the water line. Scorched paint and a dent where the engine nacelle hit.

110 aaron  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:31:47pm

y'know, shinbet once arranged for a hamas guy in gaza to be given one of those models of the al-aqsa mosque as a gift.

one guess as to what happened next.

:-)

111 uptight  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:32:42pm
Although he’s disturbed that Barack Obama has voiced strong support for Israel, he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected.

Wow - I've got common ground with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Said Qutb and bagels all round!

112 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:33:00pm

re: #109 pingjockey

Sounds true. The Missouri took a hit from a kamikaze about 4 ft abouve the water line. Scorched paint and a dent where the engine nacelle hit.

Then again, there was HMS Hood.

/historical trivia, for no good reason

113 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:36:05pm

I was thinking about the HMS Hood earlier. She was hit in a perfect spot by a battleship round. I doubt a tank round would have had the same result.

Anyway, if a destroyer lays up in range of a massed tank position, it's possible it could be sunk, but it would be most unusual.

114 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:37:51pm

re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat
The Hood was a Battle Cruiser. Cruiser speed, battleship guns, light armor. The Bismark was a true Battleship. Heavier armor.

115 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:38:26pm

re: #110 aaron
That is cool.

116 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:38:59pm
117 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:40:10pm

re: #116 ploome hineni
Good Lord! That is mad.

118 pingjockey  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:41:57pm

BBL. Need gas for the Q.

119 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:42:33pm

re: #114 pingjockey

The Hood was a Battle Cruiser. Cruiser speed, battleship guns, light armor. The Bismark was a true Battleship. Heavier armor.

And Hood's armor was after the fashion of WW1 ships, reasonable thick and well-sloped on the sides at the waterline, but light on the decks and not effective against a plunging shell. The later's what got her.

120 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:45:18pm

re: #119 pre-Boomer Marine brat

DAMN, I should've PIMF'd that one better!

121 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:48:20pm
122 PaxAmericana  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 12:48:56pm

crazy eyes...

123 arier_tzvi  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 1:10:34pm

lying to Jews just to get elected hmm novel idea. Its been done before. But whats stopping them from doing it again? Vote rep

124 syb  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 1:13:25pm

OT sort of ...

Link for Wafa Sultan about sounding a warning about Sharia law being introduced in the US

Wafa Sultan Soundng a Warning about Sharia Law here in the USA ...

125 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 1:29:57pm

re: #83 pingjockey

I don't know if you can get a sub through the Bosporus(sp). It is shallow and I don't know if the powers that be would send one in. That said, one Burke class DDG and one LA class SSN could just tear the holy hell out of the Russian forces. Plus I'm sure the AF has some folks on alert too, just in case Ivan does something really, really stupid.

If we can secretly get a sub into the Black Sea, it has probably already been there for some time... This destroyer by itself is equal or better than the entire military of most third world countries. And we have air support about 15-30 minutes away (300 miles) in Iraq.
———————& mdash;—————

SM: What are the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood?

Mohamed Habib: The Muslim Brotherhood has an Islamic, civilized, uplifting project that is based on the idea that Egypt needs to rise again to greatness, because in its rise it will uplift the entire Arab world with it. This of course requires the creation of a society that values justice, equality, and freedom....

A simple way to do this is to embrace the Christian faith of the original Egyptians, the [E-]Copt[ian]s. Or go back a few centuries before that and embrace the Greco-Roman and Egyptian paganism that was there before the entire region became the most influential part of the Christian church in the Fourth to Sixth Centuries. Paganism is still better than your heretical, bastardized, misanthropic faith promoted by a "possessed" man.

"Woe is me poet or possessed[...]. I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest." -Mohammed

126 pygmalienation  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 1:40:29pm

re: #125 David IV of Georgia

"Woe is me poet or possessed[...]. I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest." -Mohammed

Likely this was the last "moment of clarity" Mo had. He should have went with that thought and saved humanity a world of grief.

127 TS  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 2:04:23pm

How proud Muslims are to see their mosks sitting on top of other religious groups centers of worship; temples etc.

128 freedomsound  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 2:07:32pm

#99 Anthony

We need a caption contest.

I'm crushing your head!

129 lifeofthemind  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 2:35:35pm

re: #107 itellu3times

I'm no expert on any of this, tanks aren't designed to sink destroyers, what I really meant is that while it's in port or near enough, it's vulnerable to all sorts of nonsense, jihadis on rubber raft maybe a little less than previously but even so.

Sorry but no. Modern warships are not armored to stop even medium caliber rounds. The old BBs were and we can't get that steel any more. Warships today depend on engaging the enemy at a distance and damage control to avoid and if need be survive combat damage. The assumption is that the ship will be engaged at sea with a missile that will be stopped by either another missile (RAM) or a machine gun (CIWS). Modern ships are very vulnerable when in port.

130 mikeytrix  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 2:38:25pm

So the #2 in the Muslim Brotherhood confirms they have a relationship with CAIR. Isn't the MB a recognized terrorist org? Aren't these the guys who killed Sadat? Is this not enough grounds to ban CAIR? Am I too drunk?

131 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 3:10:06pm

i posted this on friday night after I heard about it on the radio ... the dnc is a bunch of dangerous fools to allow this:

[Link: elections.foxnews.com...]

132 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 4:16:58pm

Hi Everyone -

Caught a bit of CNN trying to make Sen. Biden into a "Working Class Hero" - BALDERDASH! if he is anything written by Lennon or McCartney befittig the good Senator - it is a paraphrase - "...Joseph Biden's Gasbag Hair Club Band!..."

-S-

133 abba tov  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 7:22:59pm

einshalla .. john McCain will defeat obama . and kill osama .

134 elrushbuni  Sun, Aug 24, 2008 7:39:54pm

"Also notice: although he’s disturbed that Barack Obama has voiced strong support for Israel, he’s willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s simply lying to the Jews in order to get elected."

Oh how I would LOVE to hear the UNpolitical and UNnuanced response of Barack Obama to that statement -- directly to the man who made it!

135 Cali White Bear  Mon, Aug 25, 2008 10:13:15am

This picture can be captioned one of two ways:

"How big is your weapon?"
"How to close to the Bomb is Iran?"

136 Flavia  Mon, Aug 25, 2008 11:37:06am

re: #38 Cognito

AFAIC, I think your sensitivity is just lovely, BUT, I can also tell where the guy is coming from. You are also clever enough to see that he meant it ironically. But it's fairly obvious that he's being very "in your face" about it, & is perhaps even taking a jab at PC with his name. I liken it to the way gays will use the word "queer" that anti-gay people had made up for them.


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