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What Do Creationists Think About Sarah Palin?

Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:42:11 pm PDT

Since I’ve posted two articles about Sarah Palin’s statements on creationism, let’s go across the aisle and see what the fanatical Darwin-hating creationists at “Answers In Genesis” think. They’re also examining Palin’s statements, and of course they’re eagerly hoping she’ll be an advocate for their weird pseudo-science: Is She Really a Creationist?

(Notice how they add footnotes everywhere to make it seem like a scholarly work.)

Before we look at Gov. Palin’s beliefs on creation/evolution (she has certainly shown a willingness to express her doubts about the scientific validity of evolution), we should add that caution needs to be exercised in this area before confidently declaring her to be a biblical young-earth creationist. There are all kinds of origins views that span a spectrum that is bookended by a literal Genesis creation on one end and naturalistic evolution on the other. Most politicians, when asked about their origins beliefs, try to answer somewhere between the two bookends, settling into a comfortable place in between so as not to alienate those who believe in a Creator (the overwhelming majority of Americans) while protecting themselves from allegations that they reject mainstream science. We recall that in 2007, Republican candidate for president Gov. Mike Huckabee put up his hand during a debate to show that he did not believe in evolution. Some creationists quickly rejoiced, concluding that Mr. Huckabee, a former Baptist pastor, must believe in a literal, straightforward reading of Genesis. Later, however, he made it clear that he did not necessarily want to be identified with young-earth creationism, saying that he was not sure about a six-day creation.

Although the AiG ministry does not issue political recommendations and will not (in fact, cannot per IRS restrictions) be an advocate for any presidential or vice presidential candidate, we believe that during a time when the creation/evolution debate is hot enough in today’s “culture wars” to become an issue again in a presidential campaign, we will briefly look at the few comments we have found from Gov. Palin on her views about creation/evolution. The statements we have found thus far were made while she was a candidate for governor, when asked about the teaching of biological origins in Alaska’s public schools.

In 2006, then-candidate Palin indicated in a TV debate that creation should be taught alongside evolution in the state’s public schools, declaring that schools should “teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.” Now, in stating this, she may have been advocating the teaching of scientific creationism, as opposed to biblical creationism (the latter having been deemed unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 19875), but we don’t really know.

In an interview the next day, Palin (if the Anchorage Daily News report is correct) appeared to backpedal somewhat, saying that she meant to say that a discussion of alternative views should be allowed but not forced on students, adding: “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.” In other words, Palin was not suggesting that the teaching of creation should be mandated (perhaps realizing that her statement the day before came across as arguing that creation must be in the science curriculum).

The Anchorage newspaper also reported her as saying she would not push the state’s board of education (governors in Alaska appoint board members, and the legislators confirm them) to add creationist alternatives to evolution to the state’s curriculum.

You can almost feel the disappointment, can’t you? But please note, the Answers in Genesis crowd is quick to reassure the world that they don’t want to force creationism on students—not because it’s wrong or anything, but because science teachers trained in “Darwinism” wouldn’t be able to teach their pseudo-science well enough.

Gov. Palin’s clarification of her views on the teaching of origins in public schools mirrors AiG’s general view: biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly, so it would ultimately be counterproductive for the students.

Instead, they’re in favor of “teaching the controversy,” the current strategy of creationists and proponents of “intelligent design.” Rather than force their hooey into schools, they want to sneak it in.

Incidentally, it should be noted that there is no such position as a “neutral” or “non-religious” stance in this debate. Public school biology textbooks and many teachers explain the origin of the universe and life through “natural” processes, defining science as explaining things by “natural” processes. They are indoctrinating students in an atheistic religious belief—that no god is or has been involved; thus, naturalism—in essence, atheism—is now the religion taught in public schools. Parents need to wake up to the fact that public education is not non-religious. Even the Bible affirms that one is either for Christ or against—clearly teaching that there is no such “neutral” position.

If you don’t want to turn the clock back to medieval times and deny most of modern science, then according to Answers in Genesis you’re a damned atheist. And you can’t be neutral, or believe in God and evolution; it’s creationism or hell.

This is how they manipulate the gullible. It’s disturbing and cult-like. Their way is the only way, and God Himself (using Answers in Genesis as His vessel) says so. Depart from the one true path and you are the enemy.

We will continue to seek out additional comments from Gov. Palin regarding her beliefs on creation/evolution.

As will we.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in evolution.
Belief in evolution does not preclude belief in God.
Do not trust those who insist otherwise.
— Lao Stinky

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1237 comments

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1 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:44:47pm

Here we go!

2 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:44:51pm

Sarah Palin has shown with her veto on a bill in Alaska banning benefits to same sex couples working for the state that she will uphold the law even when it goes against her personal beliefs. I trust that her advisers in the White House would be just as good, if not better, in advising her that creationism/ID science will not pass Constitutional muster and she'd veto any bill trying to foist pseudo-science off on American children because that's the type of leader she's already shown herself to be- one that will uphold the Constitution over personal beliefs.

3 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:45:45pm

Yes.
Having debate is awful.
Children should be protected from any thoughts that parents disagree with.
Maybe all students should thus be home schooled and we can jettison all public-financed schooling (indoctrination centers).

4 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:47:13pm
Although the AiG ministry does not issue political recommendations and will not (in fact, cannot per IRS restrictions) be an advocate for any presidential or vice presidential candidate

Oh. Well in that case, why th' h*ll are you writing this?

/bullshiting us

5 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:47:43pm

What do the Flat Earther's think?

6 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:49:08pm
7 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:00pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

What Sharmuta said.

8 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:26pm
biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly


HA!

9 Russkilitlover  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:41pm

By the same logic, why not teach astrology as science based curriculum in schools? Science classes are NO place for theological discussion of any kind. That's why there is church, and church groups, and home discussion. Keep it out of public schools.

10 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:44pm

Please note: as always, I'm going to delete any comments telling me to stop posting about this topic.

Just a heads-up.

11 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:05pm

re: #7 Jimash

What Sharmuta said.

Ditto.

12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:35pm
Parents need to wake up to the fact that public education is not non-religious.

That's a pretty clear statement.

13 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:54pm
Public school biology textbooks and many teachers explain the origin of the universe and life through “natural” processes, defining science as explaining things by “natural” processes. They are indoctrinating students in an atheistic religious belief—that no god is or has been involved; thus, naturalism—in essence, atheism—is now the religion taught in public schools.

God's gonna be really pissed when he doesn't get credit for natural law and nature.

14 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:52:50pm

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.

On a scale of 1 to 10, including terrorism, war, abortion, economics, empowerment of women (YEAH SARAH), welfare, taxes, education (overall, inc. vouchers), this is kind of small potatoes to me.

15 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:53:50pm

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

16 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:55:03pm

The New York Times article in the liinks above shows the extent to which the left sees the world in indentity-politics colored glasses.

Senator Barack Obama will increasingly lean on prominent Democratic women to undercut Gov. Sarah Palin and Senator John McCain, dispatching Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to Florida on Monday and bolstering his plan to deploy female surrogates to battleground states....

They seem to think that she's popular because she's a woman. "Oh, so they're playing the 'gender' card. I'll play ten thousand gender cards. Bwahaha!"

...a rapid response team is being created in Chicago to dispatch female surrogates around the country."

Release the female surrogates!

David Axelrod, the Obama campaign's chief political strategist, said Mr. Obama would not raise questions about Ms. Palin's experience [gee, I wonder why?]. Mr. Axelrod said the campaign would work instead to impress upon voters the seriousness of the race.

Yeah, sweetie! This race is too serious for a woman. Stand back and worship The Obama.

And then I see he's also playing, yet again, the implicit race card straw man.

"I know that I’m not your typical presidential candidate," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told executives and employees of the Schott glass company Friday afternoon, "and I just want to be honest with you. I know that."

Huh?

what they’re really saying is, 'We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.'

"Just making stuff up," Obama said

Dude, the evidence that you're hanging around radicals, unrepentent radicals, people who bomb government buildings and regret bombing more of them... the evidence is fairly clear.

It's not about "Muslim connections", dude. That dog won't hunt.

17 winston06  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:56:23pm

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

18 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:57:12pm

YEC = Yippee, extra cannoli

19 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:58:05pm

lao stinky is a wise man.

20 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:58:12pm

As long as we are on religion this is off topic but should clear up another rumor circulating. The Jewish Community in Alaska should know her best. :

Excerpt for JP......
The choice left the two Jewish congressman reported to be on the list of possible VPs - Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman - out of luck, but several politically active Alaskan Jews praised Palin's ties to the community.

"The Jewish community should be very excited that Sarah was selected. She has been very conscious of the Jewish community here in Alaska and now with the opportunity of her new position, she'll have the opportunity to look at the Jewish community globally," said Alaskan Republican Jewish Coalition member Terry Gorlick, who knows Palin well and has worked with her on several issues.

"Sarah's absolutely pro-Israel," he said, referring to conversations with her and comments she's made about Israel's security and its importance to the United States. He noted that as governor she signed a resolution honoring Israel for its 60th birthday.

Alaska¹s AIPAC chairman, David Gottstein, said that he had spoken to the governor about arranging a trip to Israel, but scheduling conflicts had kept it from happening to date.

"She has ties and interests in the Holy Land," said Gottstein, and also described her as someone who could be effective across party lines, noting that he worked well with her despite being a Democrat.

Anchorage Chabad Rabbi Yosef Greenberg. He recalled Palin's support for a Jewish museum he is building there and her hora lessons at the annual Jewish gala she has attended the last two years.

Greenberg also spoke of her reaction to giving birth to a child with special needs. "She said, 'God doesn't give you something you can't handle,'" he said. "It was straight out of the Lubavitch book."
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

21 beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:00pm
22 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:01pm

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

23 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:07pm

Any serious attempts at pushing creationism at a national level will be met with a huge dose of reality.

24 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:32pm

re: #10 Charles

Please note: as always, I'm going to delete any comments telling me to stop posting about this topic.

Just a heads-up.

It's a damn shame you have to keep posting that disclaimer in any thread that even touches ID and/or evolution, just because some boneheads feel they know how to run LGF better than you.

25 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:42pm

OT: Have you guys seen the latest Palin smear attempt by DU? Thery're going crazy over some fabricated blogger story. Here's the link. They're really hitting the bottom of the barrel this time.

26 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:00:48pm

re: #10 Charles


I tell ya Charles....
I don't really care. Long as she doesn't force the schools to see it her way I just don't care.

We have dem's in schools who think NOTHING of babies and tell 17 yr olds that killing them is no big deal.

Now that I care about.

Sorry!

27 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:00:56pm

Good evening, Lizards.

I usually stay away from these threads because I find the line between anticreationism and antireligion sometimes blurs in the comments.

However, this group, Answers in Genesis, is really scary. Accusing those who teach science objectively (you know, scientifically) of being atheists--clearly hardly a step away from evil in their eyes--is just wrong.

28 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:13pm

Just putting it out there again:

Catholics and Evolution

Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God"

The Catholic Church has no fear of science or scientific discovery.

29 Cicero05  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:35pm

Whatever the rest of you say, it's still turtles all the way down.

30 Duane  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:38pm

Thank G-d I am Catholic!

31 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:39pm

Well, I believe that a Creator started everything and guided evolution.
The Chabad rabbis where I go to shul say the Earth was created 5768 years ago, but it was already billions of years old when it was created. They know what I believe, and they don't throw me out.

But while some scientists claim that science proves there isn't a Creator, their arguments are just as religious as the ID people. Science cannot at this time prove or disprove whether there was a Creator or not. Someone who believes there isn't a Creator should be asked for the experimental results, or other scientific evidence, and when he gives some, ask "How would this be different if there were a Creator?"
If he answers "the same" or doesn't answer, then we have disproven his theory that there isn't a Creator.
And this is why I think it is fine for the subject to come up in discussion in a science class, and be left with "Science doesn't answer this. Discuss it with your parents and religious authorities."

32 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:42pm

re: #17 winston06
Scientists themselves say that something cannot be created from nothing. Twist, turn, and equivocate all you like- in the meantime Christians will be putting their faith in and worshiping a Creator who put this all together in 6 days, whether that means 6 24-hour days or 6 10-million days.
Now...where's that FNDT?

33 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:43pm

re: #17 winston06

I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

It's an anti-intellectual movement and it's hard to get a grip on. There was an Islamic scholar named Al-Gizahli (sp?) arounf the 11th century who questioned the empirical knowledge and logic of the ancient Greek philosophers because they didn't account for the "perfect wisdom" of the Quran. His ideas caught on and plague the Muslim world to this day. That's what's going on here; they are opting for a dogmatic literal interpretation of scripture over observable reality. It's a lifestyle choice.

34 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:02:10pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

My father's mother was like this about everything. Dad decided that the only way to live "with" her was to live on the opposite side of the continent from her. They are both hyper-self-righteous and hyper-defensive -- not easy people to be around.

35 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:02:11pm

re: #20 Nancy

As long as we are on religion this is off topic but should clear up another rumor circulating. The Jewish Community in Alaska should know her best. :

Excerpt for JP......
The choice left the two Jewish congressman reported to be on the list of possible VPs - Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman - out of luck, but several politically active Alaskan Jews praised Palin's ties to the community.

"The Jewish community should be very excited that Sarah was selected. She has been very conscious of the Jewish community here in Alaska and now with the opportunity of her new position, she'll have the opportunity to look at the Jewish community globally," said Alaskan Republican Jewish Coalition member Terry Gorlick, who knows Palin well and has worked with her on several issues.

"Sarah's absolutely pro-Israel," he said, referring to conversations with her and comments she's made about Israel's security and its importance to the United States. He noted that as governor she signed a resolution honoring Israel for its 60th birthday.

Alaska¹s AIPAC chairman, David Gottstein, said that he had spoken to the governor about arranging a trip to Israel, but scheduling conflicts had kept it from happening to date.

"She has ties and interests in the Holy Land," said Gottstein, and also described her as someone who could be effective across party lines, noting that he worked well with her despite being a Democrat.

Anchorage Chabad Rabbi Yosef Greenberg. He recalled Palin's support for a Jewish museum he is building there and her hora lessons at the annual Jewish gala she has attended the last two years.

Greenberg also spoke of her reaction to giving birth to a child with special needs. "She said, 'God doesn't give you something you can't handle,'" he said. "It was straight out of the Lubavitch book."
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

There are jews in Alaska? How do you cook Moose kosher?

36 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:03:17pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

I can hear Him now
"It took me billions of years to get all this done, and you want to say it was so easy I could do it in 6 days?"

37 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:03:41pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

I profoundly believe in Creation. I don't pretend to know how; I only know that I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen.

This is not my opinion; this is my faith supported by a lifetime of Bible study and worship.

I hope you understand now, even if you don't agree.

38 Oingo Boingo  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:23pm

Gotta admit... I could really care less one way or the other about this.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:25pm

re: #27 goddessoftheclassroom

MWAH!

Play nice now.

40 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:28pm

re: #31 Kosh's Shadow

Well, I believe that a Creator started everything and guided evolution.

It really isn't hard is it ?

41 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:53pm
42 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:38pm

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

43 Purple Prose  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:57pm

You have to wonder why this issue of such life-or-death importance to some. A belief in God and an acceptance of the preponderance of scientific inquiry are not mutually exclusive. That is self-evident. So there is something else driving people who believe that the Bible has to be taken absolutely literally, in terms of creation date, creation sequence, and human lineages and life spans.

In the end, you are forced to conclude that it is fundamentalism, just as irrational and absolutist as Islamic fundamentalism, though less immediately and violently dangerous to others. Fundamentalists, whether they are Christian or Muslim or of any other creed, view anything - anything at all - that in any way casts any doubt on a literal interpretation of religious texts, whether it's the Bible or the Koran, as intolerable. It's not that they have thought about and considered what they read or are brainwashed into believing. They believe it without question. They have become automatons.

They view anything that is at variance to their dogma as a threat. Any accommodation, even just accepting that their religious texts may be morally and even generally true but not literally true when all observable facts and commonsense suggest that they cannot be literally true, is unthinkable. It is unthinkable because that would mean suddenly letting in the demon of doubt and independent thought. And once you let in that demon, all hell will break loose. It will be fornication and anarchy in the home and the streets.

There is another term for such vehement dogmatism that seeks to coerce others into believing or at least acting as though they believe the same thing: fascism. Don't think. Just accept and do, or be damned.

Fundamentalism, whether it is Christian or Muslim, is a form of fascism.

44 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:58pm

re: #16 DeliLama

obama is NOT going to be able to dredge up any democrat women who will be able to up stage sarah palin. they need to just stay out of her way.

45 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:03pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

MWAH!

Play nice now.

This seems serendipitous

46 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:07pm

re: #14 Former SSG

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.

On a scale of 1 to 10, including terrorism, war, abortion, economics, empowerment of women (YEAH SARAH), welfare, taxes, education (overall, inc. vouchers), this is kind of small potatoes to me.

Do you want Muslims to come into public schools and shove their beliefs on our origins down the throats of kids on your dime? Do you think they'll stop there?

47 least  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:11pm

We have much bigger and more important issues to deal with . . . anyway, someday we will all have all the questions answered and our world-views proven or disproven.
In the here and now, Sarah's got my vote (McCain can come along, too).

48 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:40pm

re: #6 taxfreekiller

One issue world, is a small world.

If you clamp down hard enough, it will all go away.

Well said. This is why there is no art in tyranny. No scholarship; no musical accomplishment, no athletic prowess.

Oh the tyrant can focus on an event or two but the whole system stifles and wilts.

49 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:45pm

re: #36 Kosh's Shadow

I can hear Him now
"It took me billions of years to get all this done, and you want to say it was so easy I could do it in 6 days?"

I just don't know who some people think they are dictating to God what He can or cannot do, how He did or did not create this universe, or mostly- who will or will not be going to hell. It is not their place to judge me or anyone else on the worth of our souls, and I think it's down right blasphemous.

50 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:50pm

re: #40 Jimash

It really isn't hard is it ?

I believe the Creator is on a permanent lunch break.

51 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:07:09pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

52 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #14 Former SSG

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.


Same here.
Being the only Jewish family in an all Christian, all-white town it happened constantly, too.

53 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:10pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

Purging the ranks?

54 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:16pm

re: #42 Deaddog

...fire anyone who disagrees with you....

Care to provide a link on THAT!

55 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:57pm

re: #25 Guy_Montag

OT: Have you guys seen the latest Palin smear attempt by DU? Thery're going crazy over some fabricated blogger story. Here's the link. They're really hitting the bottom of the barrel this time.

Per the blog:

"...According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up..."

Always real convenient when names of the restaurant or the witness are omitted. The story goes on:

"...she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article..."

Apparently the writer forgets Gov Palins husband is part native Alaskan.

They are getting desperate.

56 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:13pm

re: #50 onepistoffyid

Maybe so. I don't always go back to look after I plant a seed.
I still thank that creator for bothering to plant the seed and allowing me to be the fruit. LOL

57 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:13pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

58 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:17pm

re: #45 goddessoftheclassroom

This seems serendipitous

Just lay down there.
Sure, kick off your shoes.
Comfy?
Now, in your own words, ... how long have you been having these ....

59 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:21pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

So, what now we have to believe like you or somebody else wants us to believe or we get "purged" (and no, I'm not a creationist)?

60 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:28pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Yep, that Palin smear has been traced directly to DU and KOS. And now even Whoopie is running with it.

61 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:38pm

From Palin's comments it is quite clear that she advocates discussion and free speech in the classroom and does not expect creationism to be forced upon students in any way. Trying to cast her as someone who will push creationism when she is in the oval office is just stupid.

62 Hucbald  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:40pm

Thinking Christians can't help but wince when they encounter idiocy like that, which is why I call them Christo-tards... even though I'm a believer.

Stupid people need to be told that they are stupid so that they'll STFU.

63 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:46pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Nor did she ban any books.

64 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:52pm

A bitter sour grapes critique from Wasillia mom who knows Sarah Palin.

[Link: my2bucks.wordpress.com...]


My only points. True leaders absolutely have to fire some leaders from previous administrations who are unable to adjust to the new circumstances. To not do so is to have a weak administrations. Those many KoS Huffpo and this Wasilla mom complaining about Mayor and Gov Palin firing people are lacking understanding of leadership. Probably why they are disgruntled in the first place.

Trooper gate: Wasilla Mom Anne projects something devious goings on in with the state trooper and his supervisor. The previous Governor put this trooper on notice that his performance was not up to par. Far from it. He tasered his 10 year old son as a funny test of toughness. Anne seems to think this is all ok to sweep under the carpet in her analysis.

It's not a crime for a Mayor or a Governor to want high quality people in their administrations and to let go people who don't rise to their expectations.

I've worked in Government and especially at the director level and in the executive staff there is a high turn over ratio of employees. From burnout and from difference of direction.

65 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:58pm

Lao Stinky. Hmmmm, no doubt a forebearer of Stinky Beaumont.

66 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:13pm

re: #42 Deaddog

She is anything but what you've described.... but you just keep on truckin' dude..... everything will be a-okay.

67 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:39pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Piss off.

68 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:48pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

69 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:56pm

i saw the two big flood lights this evening, shining to the heavens from ground zero.
it really is almost like the twin towers are still there.
clouds float thru the beams. it's so surreal.
i can't believe it's almost 9-11 again.

70 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:24pm
71 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:32pm

re: #59 christheprofessor

So, what now we have to believe like you or somebody else wants us to believe or we get "purged" (and no, I'm not a creationist)?

Not at all, I respect all points of view, even those I disagree with.

72 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:32pm

re: #42 Deaddog


Troll.

73 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:36pm

re: #62 Hucbald

Thinking Christians can't help but wince when they encounter idiocy like that, which is why I call them Christo-tards... even though I'm a believer.

Stupid people need to be told that they are stupid so that they'll STFU.

Hucbald...How in the hell are you, lad?

74 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:40pm

re: #35 onepistoffyid

Sort of surprised me too but apparently there are and more than just a handful.

75 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:08pm

*sniff...sniff...sniff*

76 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:15pm

Actually I like this type of thread.

Being a Christian, I believe God was involved.
HOWEVER, in my Christian religion, the how and how long is a mystery (mysterion) that faith AND SCIENCE will show.

You actually can believe in both I think, at least to some degree.

I have no problem with God and evolution.
I also think God is into practical jokes.

Look at the duck-billed platypus

77 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:33pm

re: #42 Deaddog


CARE TO BACK THAT UP
With proof? or you just hoping for it?

78 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:03pm

re: #55 Outrider

Apparently the writer forgets Gov Palins husband is part native Alaskan.

They are getting desperate.

They are getting desperate, and the posters are DU are quite insane. I swing by there, whenever I get on AlGore's InfoWeb, to see what they're up to.

79 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:16pm

re: #71 onepistoffyid

Not at all, I respect all points of view, even those I disagree with.

Okay. Thanks!

80 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:24pm

re: #46 MandyManners

No, I am just saying that parents who talk to their kids can counter anything taught in school, including creationism or extremism. The only way to stop extremism in schools is at home. It is the disengaged parent who finds his children espousing rebellious doctrine. Many of the terrorists are from moderate homes; they were rebelling against moderation/modernity, and may not have if their parents were paying a little more attention.

81 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:31pm

ug, these "debates" over beliefs disturb me. Any belief can have an "-ism" tacked onto it, and the battle is on. None of us has the answers. Science hasn't unlocked the mysteries, and Christianity accepts God's word as truth - in faith. The answer lies in a combination of theories.....or it doesn't at all. This is relatively trivial compared to some serious issues needing attention today.
I guess I'll start the D in the FNDT whether it's time or not.

82 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:34pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

I'll ask the same of you... CARE TO BACK THAT UP!

83 kynna  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:36pm

re: #16 DeliLama

They seem to think that she's popular because she's a woman. "Oh, so they're playing the 'gender' card. I'll play ten thousand gender cards. Bwahaha!"

...a rapid response team is being created in Chicago to dispatch female surrogates around the country."

Release the female surrogates!

LOL! I'm picturing that race with all the women wearing stiletto heels.

84 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:57pm

Comments telling me not to post about this topic will be deleted, as will comments complaining about being deleted.

Continuing to complain is probably not a good idea.

85 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:11pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

This is a VERY diverse "choir" as you call it -- everything from atheists to believers in creation.

We operate on FACTS.

86 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:27pm

re: #52 mean Gene

It's hard to be different. :)

87 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:45pm

re: #68 Deaddog

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

Citation please?

88 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:46pm

I have relations who are in to this creed. They are fundamentalists, I am not. It was a split that happened long ago. They belong to the church, the church belongs to them. I can hear their voices in my head even as I type this. They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

89 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:48pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

You obviously seem incapable of either research or understanding the results of research. I would go back and reread what she has actually said and reread what her results as Mayor and Governor were and not get all your information from Sen Obamas talking points and the National Enquirer.

90 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:59pm

re: #84 Charles

Comments telling me not to post about this topic will be deleted, as will comments complaining about being deleted.

Continuing to complain is probably not a good idea.

The USS Stinky Beaumont is on red alert!

;-P

91 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:00pm

re: #84 Charles

Wasn't it Lao Stinky that said "Strong smelling trolls will not blow all day"?

92 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:01pm

re: #54 WindHorse

...fire anyone who disagrees with you....

Care to provide a link on THAT!

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

93 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:31pm

re: #91 WindHorse

...or wind or something...?

94 kynna  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:32pm

re: #42 Deaddog

What an ill-informed little troll you are. Here's a tip. The KosKids are crazy and they lie. When you repeat their lies you seem as crazy as they are. Do some research and stop looking like a moron. Just some friendly lizard advice.

95 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:47pm

re: #65 Elcid

Lao Stinky. Hmmmm, no doubt a forebearer of Stinky Beaumont.

He's the one in the saffron robe, over yonder in the alcove.

96 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:49pm

re: #62 Hucbald

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

97 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:23pm

re: #79 christheprofessor

Okay. could say that about some of the paleo-lizards aat LGFs.

Whatever gets you through the night, just don' expect me to agree with you.

98 patrickafir  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:24pm

haha Release the hounds on these backward anti-science lackwits, Smithers!

99 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:31pm
100 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:40pm

Full moon?

101 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:42pm

re: #80 Former SSG

No, I am just saying that parents who talk to their kids can counter anything taught in school, including creationism or extremism. The only way to stop extremism in schools is at home. It is the disengaged parent who finds his children espousing rebellious doctrine. Many of the terrorists are from moderate homes; they were rebelling against moderation/modernity, and may not have if their parents were paying a little more attention.

My parents were pretty attentive but, I wound up being a Communist in college.

But, that's beside my point. I'm saying that CAIR and their ilk are watching this debate very closely. We cannot allow religion into our public schools at all.

102 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:10pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

I believe it is deaddog who is spouting talking points and dis proven rumors.
Opinions are respected in here,though if you use accusations to support your opinions we like to see links.

103 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:20pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

Piss off.

104 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:21pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

Full moon?

September 15th.

105 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:41pm

re: #37 goddessoftheclassroom
You are awesome...

106 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:43pm

re: #92 Deaddog

I think the last line of that article rings the truest..... and btw.... how does this translate into "fire anyone who disagrees with you"?

One, weak link?

107 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:54pm

re: #37 goddessoftheclassroom

I profoundly believe in Creation. I don't pretend to know how; I only know that I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen.

This is not my opinion; this is my faith supported by a lifetime of Bible study and worship.

I hope you understand now, even if you don't agree.

I completely agree with you on Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and earth. How long it took Him, I have not a clue, nor is it relevant to me.

My Dad is a Biblical translation consultant. Published. Genesis was included, like all books in the Bible, by man. Why? They were considered 'inspired by God'. Should Genesis be taken literally? That would not be wise, given what we know. Do I fret that people take it literally? No - so long as they don't insist I do so, or my kids do so, in a public school format.

108 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:00pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

Full moon?

Dank mists are drifting in off the moors.
Hear that? It's the baying of the Pooka Hound.

109 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:30pm

re: #92 Deaddog

TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

Oh yeah, that is really conclusive.
Not.

110 LEGION  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:32pm

Wow- a dead thread already- Bring back the convention! How about them JETS? Anything to eat around here? Whats on tv? yawn.

111 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:43pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

Now that's surprising. I woulda thunk you would enjoy that slur...

112 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:45pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

Dear Lord, Killgore! Christianity is NOT monolithic--there are "many mansions," if you will. There is not one voice that speaks for all Christians. Individual denominations have their own views on the matter.

113 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:46pm

Woe unto you, Scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."
J.C.
I don't trust fanatical religious leaders too.

Power to the Correct People!

114 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:47pm

And with respect to McCain's previous 'teach the controversy' stance we have:

[Link: www.heardworld.com...]

That stance has been modified out of political necessity. But it's clear where his sentiments lie, and they're not with science on this one.

115 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:53pm

re: #97 onepistoffyid

I have no idea what that meant...

116 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:56pm

re: #85 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is a VERY diverse "choir" as you call it -- everything from atheists to believers in creation.

We operate on FACTS.

I don't know, I have some major welts from previous posts on Palin....I still think she is a dud. But believe me, McCain could have nominated a house plant and I still would vote for him, because Obama just scares me to death.

117 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:58pm

re: #92 Deaddog

You fool... It's ONE person pinion!

Can you back it up with facts!

118 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:04pm

Use "reply" not quote, you know the saying... lest it stick to thy face.

119 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:09pm

re: #88 rawmuse

I have relations who are in to this creed. They are fundamentalists, I am not. It was a split that happened long ago. They belong to the church, the church belongs to them. I can hear their voices in my head even as I type this. They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

You might want to remind them that scientists are the ones who've come up with the early warning system that saves lives in tornados.

120 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:21pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

I respect your opinion.. but GET OUT!
Thats what it appears you are actually saying .

121 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:29pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

That's really unfair.

122 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:01pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Yup.
She personally e-mailed me with talking points.
I ignored them. I did that to force her to show up personally.

/hope, hope, hope ...

[insert name here] demanding [target] to [pick subject] or [insert ultimatum]... check.

123 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:02pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

you sound angry.

124 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:13pm

Well that settles it for me. It's painfully obvious she is just an atheist disguised in christian clothing, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let an atheist get in the White House. :sigh: Guess I'm gonna hafta vote for Obama now.

/s

125 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:25pm

re: #115 christheprofessor

I have no idea what that meant...

Tell you the truth, neither do I, but I still respect your incorrect creationist ideology.

126 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:26pm

re: #112 goddessoftheclassroom


Christianity is NOT monolithic


Strawman. I never said it was.

127 negativ  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:28pm

Atum arose from the primordial waters (Neith), and masturbated to relieve his loneliness. His semen and breath became Tefnut (moisture) and Shu (dryness), respectively. From Shu and Tefnut, were born Geb (earth), and Nut (sky), who were born in a state of permanent copulation. Shu separated them, and their children were Ausare (Osiris; death), Set (desert), Aset (Isis; life), and Nebet Het (Nephthys; fertile land). Osiris and Isis were a couple, as were Nepthys and Set.

Anyone who doubts this is true is probably an atheist or a liberal, whichever is the most horrible epithet in your opinion at the moment. Or maybe both!

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY! LET 14 YEAR-OLDS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!

Note: When you understand why you dismiss the Atum story out-of-hand, you will be one step closer to understanding why lots of people dismiss the creation story of the Abrahamic religions out-of-hand.

128 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:32pm

re: #109 wintercat

TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

Oh yeah, that is really conclusive.
Not.

Um, can you understand the difference between 'advocating censorship' (which she clearly did) and 'getting something censored' (which fortunately didn't happen)? She. Advocated. Censorship. It's really quite simple.

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:38pm

Meanwhile, there are also those who will come into the host's living room, put muddy shoes up on the upholstery, call out loudly for a beer, then bitch when it isn't cold enough.

130 Mr Spiffy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:39pm

The Yankees are the greatest team in baseball.
All of my childhood heroes were Yankees.
The Yankees suck.

Can I get my Cre-winist badge now or must I wait for the Dar-ationist version?

131 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:55pm

Jesus H. Christ, in a chicken basket...the Hucbald. :).

132 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:07pm

re: #116 onepistoffyid


SHE's a dud... care to talk about Obama or do nothing Biden?

133 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:21pm

re: #121 Sharmuta

That's really unfair.


His persistent use of 'cracker' merits the response.

134 docremulac  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:28pm

I hope Sarah does what other Republicans seem too dim to do, that is: instead of invoking the name of Reagan like a parrot without really copying what he did right, study how he dealt with these issues so successfully.

Reagan was a religious guy who put this stuff on the back burner while he dealt with the most pressing issues at hand. He had an economy that had been ruined by 4 years of a Democrat congress and Presidency. He also had a world where the Democrat policies had allowed the Communist hoard to take over more than half the population of the planet. He had a battle to fight and he didn't let the Democrats pick the debate points.

It's a Democrat policy to take the issues of abortion and creationism and make the Republicans answer to them as if they're the only issues the American people care about. This is because they're issues that so many Americans side with the Democrats on. Palin needs to slap this stuff down and say: "Wherever you stand on these issues, they're not of paramount importance at this time. We're dealing with 1- Keeping freedom safe from fanatical islam and 2- developing energy resources that don't fund fanatical islam and wreck our economy.

The other stuff shouldn't take away from work being done on these real issues. Abortion isn't going anywhere and America's schools aren't all of a sudden going to turn a 180 degree on what they teach in their curriculum so let's not take time away from the issues that are effecting all of us right now, every day.

135 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:37pm

re: #68 Deaddog

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

Where is this "record" found? Or is this another case of not specifically mentioning they are against teaching creationism ergo they must support it?

136 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:55pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

Light is the Creation. The fumbling blocks work out in the science of evolution. Yec'rs believe evolution hasn't existed for billions of years. The majority of religious people who believe that God created the Universe also believe in evolution. They don't make the distinctions we make in the blog here. That required further publicity and talk.

Biologists shouldn't allow themselves to be drawn into disussions of the Origins of life and the universe or the endings. That is the equvilancy door for the Yec'rs to work their way into the educational system. Give Yecism a dewey decimal number and keep it there.

Time for mortals is an infinite measurement. If there is a God, time is probably just a divine tool.

137 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:08pm

re: #106 WindHorse

I think the last line of that article rings the truest..... and btw.... how does this translate into "fire anyone who disagrees with you"?

One, weak link?

I do believe that is one more link than you have shown, yes?

138 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:20pm

re: #128 Deaddog

um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?

139 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:29pm

re: #123 WindHorse

you sound angry.

I think it is my avatar and handle that give you that impression, I am actually one of the nicest guys you would ever want to meet....and I love creationists and evangelicals, I just don't agree with them. I love them mainly because they don't want to kill me because I am jewish. That gives me a nice feeling inside.

140 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:30pm

re: #105 HoosierHoops

You are too kind.

My Lizard-in-Training is now in 11th grade. the first unit of World Literature is creation myths. He told me he was reading several cultures' versions, "even Genesis."

Of course I had to reply, "But that one's not a myth."

With that exasperated look that seems to be hard-wired in teens, he said, "Don't start, Mom."

141 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:43pm

After 100 posts - OT:

Gerry Ferraro on Hannity/Skeletor - I'll just betcha she's gonna pull the McCain/Palin lever come November.

142 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:44pm

re: #101 MandyManners

I don't know - the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion. Should we not teach any moral or ethical stuff, in case it traces back to a particular religion?

Slippery slope or not, I think this one needs to be left behind by big government, and relegated to local government, like pron standards, or something. :)

143 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:51pm

re: #76 nightintheruts

Even Quatum physicists say the two are not contradictory.

144 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:11pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Again,,, proof or zip it.

145 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:13pm

re: #133 experiencedtraveller

I don't see how that's equivalent to thinking Christians are retarded and approving the use of the term "Christo-tard".

146 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:15pm

re: #88 rawmuse

They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

? They seem like awfully judgemental people to. Scientists are folk like anyone else. They develop our technology, create new drugs, teach our kids...

147 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:17pm

re: #137 Deaddog

wow, you can count too!

I think I have a dog bone here....

148 Beholden  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:18pm

People who believe in creationism are not necessarily anti-science. I am open minded to the possibility that creation happened. Just as I am open minded to the science that surrounds us.

149 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:40pm

re: #147 WindHorse

oh nevermind, I see you don't really need one...

150 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:48pm

Charles Darwin is my hero, not the famous old Charles Darwin, but the young bible quoting creationist with an open mind and an obession for observing nature. It's easy in hindsight to agree with the fact of evolution: at this point, let's face it, evolution is fact. There may still be new wrinkles in how it takes place, but evolution itself is not in question. But Darwin himself set out on a long journey of discovery and allowed the facts to lead him wherever they may. Most people can't do that. They're not willing to toss out and rebuild big chunks of their preconcieved notions, especially ones that are deep in their fundamental religious beliefs

I believe it's asking a lot to expect everyone to accept the reality of evolution. Because of how our religion itself evolved, the facts of evolution can cause a lot of damage to a lot of people's foundations of beliefs. This is why creationists push back so much. They want to have a safe place to live out their lives without dealing with the inconsistencies. If you destroy their religion, they lose the compass that keeps their bearings.

On the other hand, if creationists want to push their agenda on the rest of us, they need to be prepared for the brutal rules of the playing field of science. We won't bend or suspend those rules just to make these people happy. Science has a very long history of incredible success. It has solved so many of the physical world problems of humanity, that its validity is simply not in question. The creationists have attempted to play on that playing field and have consistently lost. They should feel free to regroup and try again, but good luck with that.

Render unto science that which is physical. Render unto religion that which is metaphysical.

151 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:49pm

re: #132 Dustoff-507

SHE's a dud... care to talk about Obama or do nothing Biden?

They are much worse. McCain has my vote...I just think there were better choices than Palin, is that ok?

152 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:09pm

Deaddog, great nic. Irony forthcoming.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:20pm

re: #142 Former SSG

the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion.


How many of the !0 Commandments actually deal with morality?

154 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:21pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.


I think you ARE a jerk. Not increasingly, mind you. Just a right up and front center jerk.

155 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:24pm

re: #125 onepistoffyid

Tell you the truth, neither do I, but I still respect your incorrect creationist ideology.

Dude, put down the crack pipe and get some fresh air! I specifically stated in my first post to you (#59 above) that I am not a creationist.

156 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:34pm
157 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:35pm

re: #152 The Shadow Do

Deaddog, great nic. Irony forthcoming.

Hands off Deaddog!

158 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:50pm

re: #127 negativ

Re your little creation story:
It brought back memories.
See, we had lots of creation stories told to us in public school in the 1950's-to-60's.
Often times I, as the only Jew in the school, was put on the spot to spout the ''Old Testament'' stories to the whole class.

159 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:07pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Um, you pompus asswipe. Can you comprehend the difference between asking a question and advocating?

The stories are all suggestive, but facts are hard to come by. Did Palin actually ban books at the Wasilla Public Library?

Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

160 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:16pm

re: #141 Intrepid


I think your right... she is so pissed of by Obama.

I have a good LIB friend in NY and even she say's up.... going the other way!

161 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:16pm

re: #155 christheprofessor

Dude, put down the crack pipe and get some fresh air! I specifically stated in my first post to you (#59 above) that I am not a creationist.

Sorry my mistake, and it is actually a bong filled with tequila.....

162 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:25pm

re: #139 onepistoffyid

I actually said that because of your username.... as a joke.

I just think that it was slightly unfair of you to lump everyone together like you did in comment #57

163 Wendya  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:28pm
biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly, so it would ultimately be counterproductive for the students.

Uh, yeah.... and that would be because they are science teachers. I don't want someone with a degree in religious studies teaching chemistry either.

164 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:34pm

re: #95 pre-Boomer Marine brat

He's the one in the saffron robe, over yonder in the alcove.

Yes, yes now I see...Where before I was blind. Smell the incense, or whatever that funny stuff is...Momma Told Me Not to Come. Frome the profi Prophet of Three Dog's.

165 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:35pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

(Tried to post earlier but SBCGlobal DSL cut me off. Moral: find a new ISP.)

It's not "Creation" we have a problem with; there are plenty of people here on LGF who believe in God as Creator (myself included). We have a problem with the denial of natural explanations for the world in which we live, which was labeled "Creationism" by those who do that.

166 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:47pm

re: #138 WindHorse

um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?

Wow. I don't even know how to answer that. My hat is off to you. You have defeated your own argument. Self goal.

167 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:00pm

re: #151 onepistoffyid


OK, spit them out....

168 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:06pm

re: #162 WindHorse

I actually said that because of your username.... as a joke.

I just think that it was slightly unfair of you to lump everyone together like you did in comment #57

sorry...but hey, it is Friday night, what the hell...

169 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:39pm

re: #116 onepistoffyid

I don't know, I have some major welts from previous posts on Palin....I still think she is a dud. But believe me, McCain could have nominated a house plant and I still would vote for him, because Obama just scares me to death.

Mine was a very general statement, replying just to what you'd written in tha particular comment. No offense meant. Just a litle bit of a relative newcomer's perspective.

As I was told last fall. It's a tough room. But even those who greatly disagree will come to the defense of people on the opposite side. We respect those who agree to disagree with us.

/rambling off

170 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:47pm

re: #161 onepistoffyid


NOT winning any points here.

171 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:54pm

re: #92 Deaddog

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

re: #142 Former SSG

I don't know - the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion. Should we not teach any moral or ethical stuff, in case it traces back to a particular religion?

Slippery slope or not, I think this one needs to be left behind by big government, and relegated to local government, like pron standards, or something. :)

Educational standards are set at a local level but, I do not want Islam sneaking in at any place.

172 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:20pm

A national politician with all the modern problems at hand is well advised to keep the debate polite in terms of abortion rights and creationism. Make sure all sides get heard and can work themselves our to some agreeable compromise.

Some of the yec'rs will have to be beat down in court.

Let Roe vs. Wade stand or be modified. But let woman choose. Set a good example like Sarah Palin has done so far. And people will choose.

The office will make her wiser.

173 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:21pm

re: #146 Jim D

You are right about that. They don't judge, but they have been taught that Judgement has already been passed on sinners (which is all of us).
The jury has been sent home.

But there is Appeal.

174 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:23pm

re: #166 Deaddog

ok, you can count but you can't think.... that's alright.

175 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:30pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Um, can you understand the difference between 'advocating censorship' (which she clearly did) and 'getting something censored' (which fortunately didn't happen)? She. Advocated. Censorship. It's really quite simple.

Do you know the titles of the books she wanted taken out of the children's section of the library?

Neither do I, nor does anyone else.

What if there were explicit sex education books in the section for 8 year olds? Would most parents of 8 year olds NOT be up in arms about this?

We don't know enough about this "scandal" to form opinions one way or another. We only have the word of an ex-librarian who has a story to tell, and she's telling it to whoever will listen.

I'll wait for facts.

176 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:33pm

re: #166 Deaddog


SO should we have XXX in our schools?

177 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:28:26pm

I keep staring at my keyboard but I just can't find the 'welt' key.

178 Rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:28:46pm

A geologist (and creationist) acqaintance of mine once told me that "I don't need to believe there ever was a 'Permian Time' in order to find oil in 'Permian' rocks. As a geologist myself, I felt like I had been slapped in the face with a cold, wet Coelacanth...what rubbish.

179 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:14pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Nor did she ban any books.

What's the story on the "ban the books" subject?
I've seen the accusations, but no linkeys. The librarian isn't talking, at least according to the usually reliable MSM.
I know there is a "factual letter" written by one of the ten protesters that personally accuses her of that, but I'm not sure how much credence to give to that source -- "one of ten brave ...".
I stumbled across an official (Alaska newspaper) story that she made inquiries about removing some material, and dropped the issue when she was told there could be no legal basis to do that.

I'd like to know what books or materials were bothering her.
Since it was a "hick town of less than 5000 people", I can think of a few things that would bother me personally under those conditions, and that wouldn't be books on evolution, creation, and so forth. Not enough "skin".

180 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:15pm

re: #170 Dustoff-507

NOT winning any points here.

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

181 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:33pm

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the cannoli.
2: And the cannoli was without filling, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the cannoli tube. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the cannoli.
3: And God said, Let there be ricotta! and there was ricotta.
4: And God saw the ricotta, that it was good: and God divided the ricotta from the cannoli tube.
5: And God called the ricotta "Filling", and the tube he called "Tube". And the evening and the morning were the first day.

182 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:11pm

re: #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Meanwhile, there are also those who will come into the host's living room, put muddy shoes up on the upholstery, call out loudly for a beer, then bitch when it isn't cold enough.

Even worse, they commence to pee in the corner behind the sofa.

183 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:12pm

re: #178 Rockman

A geologist (and creationist) acqaintance of mine once told me that "I don't need to believe there ever was a 'Permian Time' in order to find oil in 'Permian' rocks. As a geologist myself, I felt like I had been slapped in the face with a cold, wet Coelacanth...what rubbish.

Hey Rockman, meet another geologist lizard! paleodepositional facies and foraminefera baby!

184 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:33pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

I dunno - not killing, not coveting, being respectful of your parents (elders), there's some moral stuff there. My nun-teachers would explain it better :)

185 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:33pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

DUDE.... it's like pulling teeth with you...
Who do you think would be a better VP?

186 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:49pm

re: #140 goddessoftheclassroom

hard-wired in teens

I was never like that.

/screaming and ripping off burning pants

187 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:52pm

re: #157 onepistoffyid

Hands off Deaddog!

Sorry, pal. All those who spout nonsense here are fair dame.

188 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:57pm

Michael Moore on CNN...what a wind bag pig!

189 FrogMarch  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:57pm

Hi all. Has this been posted yet? probably - but just in case.

[Link: ap.google.com...]

190 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:59pm

re: #69 nyc redneck

i saw the two big flood lights this evening, shining to the heavens from ground zero.
it really is almost like the twin towers are still there.
clouds float thru the beams. it's so surreal.
i can't believe it's almost 9-11 again.

That is what I thought I saw as a background picture when Rudy gave his speech at the RNC.

191 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:21pm

re: #160 Dustoff-507

I think your right... she is so pissed of by Obama.

I have a good LIB friend in NY and even she say's up.... going the other way!

Wonder how many are out there who are just like your friend?

192 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:32pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Strawman. I never said it was.

You said:

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

"House" is singular. That is how I understood you to mean that you thought Christianity was "monolithic," metaphorically "one idea written in stone."

If I mistook your meaning, I'm sorry, but my interpretation was reasonable given your choice of words, and to accuse me of using a strawman is not fair.

193 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:45pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

and what were YOU playing with? GAS

194 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:59pm

re: #185 Dustoff-507

DUDE.... it's like pulling teeth with you...
Who do you think would be a better VP?

Ridge....I live in PA and he was great....very strong on defense....Ridge is the man....he should run for president.

195 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:32:26pm

re: #191 Intrepid

Have NO idea, but NY is so LIB I'm shocked

196 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:32:34pm

re: #92 Deaddog

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]


Not much of a cite for facts, she inquired about the legality and then did nothing. The proposed list has a book that was not published until 2000 and this all occurred in mid-late 90s. OK...... now what?


Mark

197 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:04pm

up 5 pts b/f Palin? whoooow!

198 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:07pm

re: #161 onepistoffyid

Sorry my mistake, and it is actually a bong filled with tequila.....

No worries. Check this out, you'll probably like it (particularly near the end)...

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:12pm

re: #177 jaunte

I keep staring at my keyboard but I just can't find the 'welt' key.

OMG!
What are you thinking of doing?!

200 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:14pm

re: #158 mean Gene

Re your little creation story:
It brought back memories.
See, we had lots of creation stories told to us in public school in the 1950's-to-60's.
Often times I, as the only Jew in the school, was put on the spot to spout the ''Old Testament'' stories to the whole class.

You poor thing.
I hope you did well.

Didja get the "oil came from crushed dinosaurs"?
That one has had me baffled for years.

201 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:20pm

re: #187 Cartman

Sorry, pal. All those who spout nonsense here are fair dame.

Absolutely. So far, I have given references to back up my statements, and just because I think that it actually says something about leadership to (a) advocate censorship (true as far as anyone can tell) and (b) advocate 'teaching the [non-existent] controversy," I am excoriated. Shrug. I don't have to sing with the choir, I can make up my own mind, I can back up my own statements. That's why I post here. The words speak for themselves, both mine and others.

202 Tigger2005  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:24pm

re: #32 RubyTuesday

Scientists themselves say that something cannot be created from nothing.

But the Bible says God created something from nothing. Are you doubting God's power?

And is God something? If so, where did God come from? What was there before there was God?

And actually, you're wrong ... scientists don't say something can't come from nothing.

203 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:39pm

re: #142 Former SSG
Inclusive? The first four have nothing to do with ethics, just worshiping god.

204 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:56pm

Christotards. Atheistards.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

205 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:00pm

Truly mature and responsible leaders are able to separate to some degree their personal feelings from the duties of their office. I think Gov. Palin is able to do just that.

Personally, while there is some evidence that evolution could have occurred, I have not seen any evidence that requires that interpretation alone. I neither believe nor disbelieve evolution. That said, science class is about teaching inquiry, research, investigation and coming up with the most probable explanation given the answers and results. Belief in Creation (and of a "Designer") cannot live up to this standard. So although I believe there is a Creator—who is almost entirely unlike Star Trek's/William Shatner's entity—I don't think creation is a subject for science classes. While I believe theistic evolution is a real possibility, atheistic creationism (or Intelligent Design) is an impossibility. Teach science—truth has no fear of inquiry or facts.

So, I am consigned to hell by these people because I refuse to say that a word for word literal interpretation of Genesis or the rest of the Bible is the only option. I wish the people at answersingenesis the best for you are taking a very dangerous position in your zeal.

206 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:08pm

re: #194 onepistoffyid


Nice, but the dem's beat him to death. Having Plain, eats away at the Billary vote. Un-like the dem's we really put a woman foward...
Plus she is a fighter. Ridge was not

207 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:46pm

re: #182 Outrider

Even worse, they commence to pee in the corner behind the sofa.

THAT WAS THE CAT THAT DID THAT, NOT ME -- I SAW THE WHOLE THING !

208 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:08pm

re: #181 godfrey

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the cannoli.
2: And the cannoli was without filling, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the cannoli tube. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the cannoli.
3: And God said, Let there be ricotta! and there was ricotta.
4: And God saw the ricotta, that it was good: and God divided the ricotta from the cannoli tube.
5: And God called the ricotta "Filling", and the tube he called "Tube". And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Hazelnut Cream, wonderful filling for the sacred cannoli.

209 Tigger2005  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

What, did you get a MoveOn.org e-mail and just accept everything it said at face value?

210 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:40pm

re: #193 Dustoff-507

and what were YOU playing with? GAS

heh
it was a play on "liar liar pants on fire"

211 greenmiler  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:46pm

I think Palin knows what can and can't be done with his/her position, unlike Jindal. Its a moot point though, I ain't votin for "the One"

212 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:53pm

re: #201 Deaddog

Untrue. Asking how someone would feel if they were asked to remove books is not advocating. Do you have a sourced quote where she advocates banning any books in particular?

/suspect not since that would be nat'l news by now. If this is all the left has, you best be worrying..

213 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:55pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I was never like that.

/screaming and ripping off burning pants

I love "deferring to their wisdom from a few years back".
Then I recite the entire list of stuff that didn't work, and suggest they add something new that won't work, either.

214 patrickafir  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:58pm

re: #189 FrogMarch

Hi Frog. Good story – thanks.

215 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:03pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

216 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:20pm

re: #201 Deaddog

NOPE... you've posted ( hear-say) not facts.

217 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:28pm

re: #184 Former SSG

You're looking at 50% tops (and that's being generous).

218 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #143 Nancy

yes, my son was studying some type of quantum physics in some engineering studies.
He was telling me about it but after about 5 minutes all my brain heard was "wah wah wah wah wah"
Went right over my neanderthal brain = )

219 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #215 Lynn B.

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

Zogby.

220 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:56pm

re: #114 Deaddog

And with respect to McCain's previous 'teach the controversy' stance we have:

[Link: www.heardworld.com...]

That stance has been modified out of political necessity. But it's clear where his sentiments lie, and they're not with science on this one.

Not really.... It is only clear if you "fit it" into a predesigned box.

221 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:02pm

re: #210 pre-Boomer Marine brat

LOL

222 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:29pm

Killgore, what are you going on about?

223 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:54pm

I served on a public library board for 25 years. There are always patrons who might appear to ask that certain material be banned or looked into.

Ours was a district library so direct taxing body. A Municipal library, they would appear before the Mayor and board or town council. Just because the Chair -which in that case would be the Major --would bring the request to the attention of the Librarian doesn't MEAN even advocating or suggesting that the books be banned.

And the situation in question is was a group of citizens that requested it, bringing it to the Mayor and council.

She was doing her JOB not acting on any of her personal beliefs. As Mayor, it was her office that was funding the municipal library and it was the mayor and council where any citizens would bring objections.

224 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:00pm

re: #206 Dustoff-507

Nice, but the dem's beat him to death. Having Plain, eats away at the Billary vote. Un-like the dem's we really put a woman foward...
Plus she is a fighter. Ridge was not

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

225 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:05pm

re: #183 onepistoffyid

You mean you study the superficial detritus that obscures the early paleozoic and precambrian crystalline rocks?
:)

226 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:19pm

re: #212 Thanos

Untrue. Asking how someone would feel if they were asked to remove books is not advocating.

I'm sorry, do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

227 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:39pm

re: #215 Lynn B.

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

I am pretty sure he was up 5 points prior to the election....I read that somewhere.....puff....

228 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:53pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

Zogby.

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

229 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:09pm

re: #47 least


We have much bigger and more important issues to deal with . . .

Exactly! This AiG, the Disco Institute, and all like-minded organizations should be focusing their power, influence, trial lawyers, and immense wealth on the more important issues facing this nation, rather than trying to shove their version of religion onto other peoples children while falsely calling it science.

230 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:36pm

re: #213 jwb7605

I love "deferring to their wisdom from a few years back".
Then I recite the entire list of stuff that didn't work, and suggest they add something new that won't work, either.

Yeah.

BTW, from two threads back, I've been waiting to say I liked this a lot.

231 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:53pm

re: #222 godfrey

The 10 commandments. How many of them are actually morally correct? It's at least 50% dogma, 50% morality. Religion does not equal morality.

232 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:54pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

233 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:06pm

re: #203 Jim D

Reverence for a supreme being isn't so bad, especially in a primitive time an place. The other seven are moral. I don't want to pick nits here, just saying it isn't so bad. There are worse things we could teach kids, like that children don't exist until they're born and breathing. Like that moral equivalence is OK. Like that people who molest children are just a little sick and need counseling....

234 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:10pm

re: #225 rockman

You mean you study the superficial detritus that obscures the early paleozoic and precambrian crystalline rocks?
:)

Actually I cleanup contaminated gas stations, but paledepositional environments sounds much better.

235 kuffar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:26pm

re: #209 Tigger2005

DK plant? Do they really think they can infect us with Obama love or something? Unbelievable.

236 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:29pm

re: #68 Deaddog

I don't think you can come up with that record even though you say on the record. You lose respect? No I lose respect for you when you make that baseless claim. You are only talking from your emotions and are pulling psuedo wishful facts from thin air and imagination.

237 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:39pm

re: #227 onepistoffyid

I am pretty sure he was up 5 points prior to the election....I read that somewhere.....puff....


man, I knew I should have went to a pipe instead of just packing my cigars loose...

238 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:44pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid
No sorry, she does have a record. Not long for sure, but she fits the Mccain fold. Now understand I'm a vet just like Mccain and NOT real crazy about him. But her pick was a great idea.
Sometimes you have to move beyond 1-2-3.

239 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:45pm

Off to bed for me.

onepistoffyid - keep that lid on yer yid.

Deaddog - you're over your head.

Nighty-night.

240 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:59pm

re: #232 godfrey

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

I hope you are right, because I cannot take 4 years of Obama-Biden.

241 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:04pm

re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah.

BTW, from two threads back, I've been waiting to say I liked this a lot.

Thanks! Common sense.

242 WhiteRasta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:09pm

re: #171 MandyManners

It is the Whole Wheat Month of Ramadan-Bomb-An-Infidel.

The local MSM piss-rag has daily articles about how wonderful the ROP is with pictures of the peace-loving ROP types having hummus and falafel after sunset.

This shiite is being forced down the the throats of our children at school in the name of multi-culti "tolerance" and "inclusiveness".

No mention of suicide bombing for mohammed or any negative thing to do with the so-called ROP.

243 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:30pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

How many of them are actually morally correct?

All of them.

244 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:31pm

re: #228 Sharmuta

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

I thought that was big news at the time. Guess this is a sign that I should maybe get a life and quit watching the news so much.

245 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:37pm

re: #237 nightintheruts

man, I knew I should have went to a pipe instead of just packing my cigars loose...

I meant convention....PIMF

246 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:42:35pm

"re: #138 WindHorse- um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?"

re: #166 Deaddog

Wow. I don't even know how to answer that. My hat is off to you. You have defeated your own argument. Self goal.

Sorry, guys; this gets an upding.

Is there really a constituency on LGF for state- or city-government censorship in principle as long as the government doesn't quite get around to it? I hope not...

247 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:42:58pm

re: #240 onepistoffyid

You and me both. Four years of Obama... think of the waste, let alone the harm.

248 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:02pm

re: #232 godfrey

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

Let's check back in November, I hope I have to apologize to you profusely....

249 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:06pm

re: #207 pre-Boomer Marine brat

THAT WAS THE CAT THAT DID THAT, NOT ME -- I SAW THE WHOLE THING !

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

250 WhiteRasta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:25pm

Good night all.

G-d Bless you and keep you.

251 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #243 godfrey

Are you morally superior to the Dali Lama because you keep the sabbath holy? Wow, you must be very impressive. Are you morally superior to all the Jews on planet earth because they don't give a shit about Sunday?

252 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:56pm

Goodnight, WhiteRasta!

253 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:08pm

re: #233 Former SSG

Reverence for a supreme being isn't so bad, especially in a primitive time an place. The other seven are moral. I don't want to pick nits here, just saying it isn't so bad. There are worse things we could teach kids, like that children don't exist until they're born and breathing. Like that moral equivalence is OK. Like that people who molest children are just a little sick and need counseling....


Thank you.
I work with sexually abused children. After some of their stories...and seeing those sick f&&ks get off scot free due to "new rulings"...
The death penalty is not so bad.

254 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:20pm

re: #242 WhiteRasta

It is the Whole Wheat Month of Ramadan-Bomb-An-Infidel.

The local MSM piss-rag has daily articles about how wonderful the ROP is with pictures of the peace-loving ROP types having hummus and falafel after sunset.

This shiite is being forced down the the throats of our children at school in the name of multi-culti "tolerance" and "inclusiveness".

No mention of suicide bombing for mohammed or any negative thing to do with the so-called ROP.

That's why The Kid goes to a conservative, Christian school.

255 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:22pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

Zogby.

Oy. Figures. That sure looks like a fluke to me.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

256 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:29pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

lol

Killgore, you asked if they were morally correct, not if I were morally superior.

257 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:47pm

re: #244 cliffster

I thought that was big news at the time. Guess this is a sign that I should maybe get a life and quit watching the news so much.

I do believe we talked about that but I was under the impression that most people ,at least lizards didn't put much into Zogby. Of course I might be wrong on that too.
I think someone even mentioned maybe the poll was rigged to make Obamas presumed post convention bounce seem bigger.

258 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:56pm

re: #218 nightintheruts

I can relate. I have a granddaughter who just graduated with a BS degree in Astrophysics and math and indeed, I am lost after about 5 minutes too. Headed to graduate school now.

259 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:06pm

re: #247 godfrey

You and me both. Four years of Obama... think of the waste, let alone the harm.

McCain-Palin are not great, but I will take them....I wanted Rudy....I never get what I want.

260 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:15pm

re: #246 Zimriel

Blocking internet porn at the public library might fall into the state-censorship category. What about that?

261 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:31pm

It's unfortunate that Sarah Palin seems to be the only one coming under this level of scrutiny while 0bama and biden are getting the softball treatment. I think she's tough and she can take it, but her toughness doesn't make it any less hypocritical on the part of the media and pundits.

262 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:33pm

re: #220 mailmars

Most of these politicians don't know what Intelligent Design is. They think it means God created the Universe long ago not 6000 years ago. The Behe arguements behind ID is that "poof everything divinely appeared 6000 years ago. Sort of like a Harry Potter existence.

Micheal Medved on the Board of the Discovery Institute still doesn't know what Intelligent Design is. He is uncomfortable talking about it.

263 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:36pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

Dude (or Dudette) - what polls were YOU looking at? The ones I've been watching (Rasmussen, RCP, Gallup) have had McCain down since this whole shebang started. I've never seen McCain ahead in the polls, ever.

Give a link, please.

264 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:44pm

re: #246 Zimriel

no.

265 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:02pm

re: #226 Deaddog

Keep the spitballs coming, you are just uniting her support, now do you have anything substantial, or you just here to pass gas?

266 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:23pm

re: #240 onepistoffyid


NONE of us can... remember. McCain, because of his past actions has left him in trouble with many REP's....

267 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:25pm

Sarah Palin is a Christian, she believes in creation, and she believes that the first part of the first amendment to the Constitution is sacrosanct. Can there possibly be any greater statement about her desire and ability to lead according to the laws of our country?

268 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:29pm

re: #253 nightintheruts

Moral relativism is killing us. Someone who hurts kids should be locked up for life. A culture that stones women for wanting to choose their own husbands is not the equivalent of my American culture. Anywhere where life is cheap, is a bad place.

269 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:49pm

re: #259 onepistoffyid

I never get what I want, either. Right now, I want another cannoli. But there are no more cannoli. The plate is empty. There is no more ricotta. The clouds, nevertheless, pass in their own direction.

270 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:14pm

re: #249 goddessoftheclassroom

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

Link won't open. You didn't get all of the URL

271 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:17pm

re: #267 cliffster

Hey- I tried at #2.

272 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:17pm
273 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:31pm

re: #253 nightintheruts


DITTO on that. I too have seen them as a medic. Hard to hold your actions back!

274 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:43pm

re: #262 hazzyday

Most of these politicians don't know what Intelligent Design is. They think it means God created the Universe long ago not 6000 years ago. The Behe arguements behind ID is that "poof everything divinely appeared 6000 years ago. Sort of like a Harry Potter existence.

Micheal Medved on the Board of the Discovery Institute still doesn't know what Intelligent Design is. He is uncomfortable talking about it.

That's because the whole concept of "intelligent design" is fraudulent. It's creationism with a new name.

275 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:12pm

re: #233 Former SSG
I personally don't see reverence for a supreme being as a good thing and it certainly doesn't prevent people from behaving in all sorts of horrible ways.

276 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:24pm

I think quantum physics does play a role in the Creation and the Revelation story, in my OPINION (and I am no theologian).

Because the ones that put those and other books of the Bible in to the Bible were writing it from a place outside of our present understanding of Time, and yet had to choose language that would impart temporal meaning to we, the mere mortals. Thus we have words like "day, night, morning" etc.

The Book of Revelation was written in such a state.

The perspective is from the universe in its totality, from beyond temporal reference, and says so, right there in the opening passages.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Time is a construct of our physical world. But inspiration often comes from beyond this world, in my humble OPINION.

277 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:31pm

re: #76 nightintheruts

Heh, you said "mysterion".

Ok, ok, not the same spelling, but it made me think of that song.

278 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:35pm

re: #265 Thanos


LOL

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:41pm

re: #249 goddessoftheclassroom

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

And (while you're reposting the link) of COURSE I knew you'd have to reply. I've got your number. Dogs RULE!

280 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:04pm

re: #42 Deaddog
Leaders fire people, get used to it.

281 Naso Tang  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:08pm

re: #46 MandyManners

Do you want Muslims to come into public schools and shove their beliefs on our origins down the throats of kids on your dime? Do you think they'll stop there?

What about the atheists? Think of what they would do.

//

282 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:27pm

re: #262 hazzyday

The interesting thing about Intelligent Design as a political movement is that its strongest proponents don't want a really specific definition, because that would tend to divide the troops.

283 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:37pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

That is an interesting opinion. My question is who else better reflects his reformer campaign premise? Once we have that list of contender candidates then we can discuss the relative merits of Palin vs. ?.

284 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:38pm

re: #275 Jim D

I personally don't see reverence for a supreme being as a good thing and it certainly doesn't prevent people from behaving in all sorts of horrible ways.

No one ever aid it does.

285 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:49pm

re: #228 Sharmuta

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

Sorry. We're cross-posting here. I'm a little slow tonight.

You have to be suspicious of one poll that's so out of line with all the rest. That's why I rely more on RCP's averages. And they show Obama ahead by 3-4 points during the same time period, taking Zogby's data into account.

286 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:54pm

re: #263 Intrepid

Dude (or Dudette) - what polls were YOU looking at? The ones I've been watching (Rasmussen, RCP, Gallup) have had McCain down since this whole shebang started. I've never seen McCain ahead in the polls, ever.

Give a link, please.

Dude

Here ya go....who should I blame this on?

[Link: time-blog.com...]

287 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:12pm

I'm done. You all have a great night.

288 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:27pm

re: #127 negativ

Note: When you understand why you dismiss the Atum story out-of-hand, you will be one step closer to understanding why lots of people dismiss the creation story of the Abrahamic religions out-of-hand.

Judaism and Christianity have an identical creation story (Genesis). Islam is quite different. Some of us consider Islam to be a plagarization of the Abrahamic religion.

You can read Craig Winn's analysis both from his view and Islam.

[Link: www.prophetofdoom.net...]

Here is an excerpt:

I'd like to set the stage. Yahweh's revelation of our beginning was given to man four thousand years ago. There were no scientists or even a word for "science." The language of astronomical creation, calculus, wouldn't be invented for four millennia. The language of life, DNA, was a concept well beyond this time. I say this to reveal something that should be obvious. The Genesis creation story was not intended to be a scientific explanation of how God made the universe. It was a spiritual explanation of why he created it. The explanation of how was scores of centuries beyond the language of the time. And it was unimportant. Those who want the Biblical account taught in schools as if it were scientific are doing a great disservice.

The why of creation was crucial. It is the essence of the Bible. Genesis tells us that the heavenly bodies, the earth, and life were created during six distinct periods of time. The word "day" did not actually appear in the ancient Hebrew text so we don't know if creation took millions or billions of years. But we know that with the exception of the fourth period, the order of creation, and the description of the events upon which it comprises are in harmony with what we have learned through science. The Bible's account even has man and the animals being made from the same material and during the same period of time.

Read more (from the linked chapter above) if want to see the creation story from Mohammad's brain.

289 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:28pm

OT:

Did anybody else read the article entitled "Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals" in Today in Investor's Business Daily? The Obamas are beyond radicals. Mark Levin was talking about it today on his program.

[Link: www.investors.com...]

290 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:29pm

re: #281 Naso Tang

What about the atheists? Think of what they would do.

//

HA!

291 ghost repeater[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:43pm
292 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:49pm

re: #272 goddessoftheclassroom

[Link: icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com.. .]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!
MWAH!

293 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:22pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

Spare me. The Republican base loves Palin. (The base also loves Jindal; but Jindal is radioactive to non-base-Republicans and needs to undergo a period of secular penance.) Palin's record as a libertarian conservative and as pro-energy would make her a folk hero no matter what she looked like.

294 JHW  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:24pm

I notice this crap is getting repeated, along with many other groundless slurs, very heavily in comments in European publications. "She believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old", "she's a gun nut, one step away from the red button and our extinction", "she kills endangered species", "she hunts wolves from planes", "she bans books", "she, like most Americans, doesn't know anything about geography and only got her first passport this year". This is what they really want to believe about most Americans, all a bunch of gun-loving,overweight, religious fanatic, ignorant rednecks ready to set the world on fire. It makes them feel oh so superior and sophisticated,and they love the light-bringer Obama, he'll talk to Putin and the terrorists and save the world from the out of control, greedy superpower.

I'm as heartily sick of their condescension and elite attitudes as I am of it here by the American left. I have news for you enlightened Euros, a lot of us don't have passports because here in North America it's more than 20 miles between national borders. Traveling from my home state of Washington to Southern California is the rough equivalent to driving to Moscow from Paris.To go to another country besides Canada is a hell of a lot more expensive than this working class person can afford. It's not quite the same as in Europe being able to cross half a dozen national borders on a tank of gas. Save your condescension and scorn, you'll have more problems than you want soon enough with your disdain for having children. I wonder if all those aliens you're importing to do your peasant work are going to be willing forever to fund your early retirements and 35 hour work weeks.

295 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:36pm

re: #275 Jim D

Well, Jim, we probably will have to agree to respectfully disagree. This is the sort of subject that causes trouble among friends, so let's not do it.

However, I think that most religious people don't cause trouble, just fanatics. I am not a fanatic, so see above comment. Still friends?

296 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:53pm

Some denominations and Christian people fast for more than 180 days out of the year. I know some. They just roll their eyes when Muslims brag about how they gorge all night fast during Ramadan. Some people live on grapefruit and lettuce longer than that.

297 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:55pm

re: #234 onepistoffyid

Actually I cleanup contaminated gas stations, but paledepositional environments sounds much better.

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

298 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:29pm

re: #268 Former SSG


Exactly. And now with laws like 0bama wants to pass, we appear to be moving from abortion to infanticide, as an example.
The things I see from the cheap seats, we have opened up sexuality to a degree where the only things left sacred or off-limits are the children, but for how long?
Of course that could be considered a 'slippery slope' argument, but...

299 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:33pm

re: #260 jaunte

Blocking internet porn at the public library might fall into the state-censorship category. What about that?

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

300 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:59pm

I've heard re: #284 MandyManners

It was certainly implied.

301 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:06pm

re: #289 flynmudd

OT:

Did anybody else read the article entitled "Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals" in Today in Investor's Business Daily? The Obamas are beyond radicals. Mark Levin was talking about it today on his program.

[Link: www.investors.com...]

Many of today's youth find the pitch attractive. "I may spend the rest of my life trying to create social movement," said Brian Coovert of the Cincinnati chapter. "There is always going to be work to do. Until we have a perfect country, I'll have a job."

Perpetual revolution.

302 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:11pm

To Deaddog:

Let me repeat: As Mayor she was doing her JOB. It was a MUNICIPAL library, overseen and funded by the town. When approached by citizens she had a responsibility to bring the request to the librarian. It doesn't even mean advocating or demanding.

It means asking them to look into whether or not there is any validity to the materials. She didn't do it as a private citizen, it was her JOB.

Persons she dismissed were on GROUNDS --not because they disagreed with her. You seem to have a problem with firing persons for corruption, ethical violations or other breaches.

303 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:23pm

re: #195 Dustoff-507

Have NO idea, but NY is so LIB I'm shocked

I wonder about the PUMA factor - if enough PUMAs from NY come out and vote like so many of their other sister/brother PUMAs seem to be voting, then NY might be closer than we think it will be.

After all, Hillary got slammed by the Obama machine, and in many ways, it was sexist. And the PUMAs are royally pissed off about that.

304 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:28pm

re: #226 Deaddog

I'm sorry, do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

305 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:07pm

re: #256 godfrey

Well if you are "morally correct" over those who are morally wrong then that makes you superior. My neighbor has a bigger house and his wife has a nice ass. I covet them both. Are you morally superior to me?

306 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:12pm

re: #293 Zimriel

Spare me. The Republican base loves Palin. (The base also loves Jindal; but Jindal is radioactive to non-base-Republicans and needs to undergo a period of secular penance.) Palin's record as a libertarian conservative and as pro-energy would make her a folk hero no matter what she looked like.

Palin is the most popular politician - more so than Hillary, Obama or McCain. McCain is a genius.

307 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:16pm

re: #202 Tigger2005
My point is God did create something from nothing. Man cannot replicate that feat, so they twist and turn and fabricate theories. Anything to deny there is a God.
As for the questions with no answers, I'm satisfied to wait.
Faith isn't "reasonable" - it's faith. If it's not your thing, fine. I don't push my Christianity on others, but I don't hide it either. How hard is it for non-Christians to do the same?

308 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:16pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?


Do you want Muslims to force their beliefs about this down the throats of kids in public schools? If we allow one religious explanation, we'll be forced to allow the others.

309 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Past that, it is a Mayor's duty to know about how the mechanics of these things operate. She was doing her job in finding out the answer in case one of he constituents asked the question.

310 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:48pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

Because it is -- in another religion, so be it -- an attempt at the imposition of a statist religious world view upon the secular.

311 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:12pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

The 10 commandments. How many of them are actually morally correct? It's at least 50% dogma, 50% morality. Religion does not equal morality.

Which 5 are dogma?

312 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:32pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

Hey- I tried at #2.

Indeed you did - missed that. She's proven herself in ways that most people never could, but just making the statement that creation might be true causes people to draw a whole set of totally unwarranted conclusions.

313 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:45pm

re: #298 nightintheruts

Exactly. And now with laws like 0bama wants to pass, we appear to be moving from abortion to infanticide, as an example.
The things I see from the cheap seats, we have opened up sexuality to a degree where the only things left sacred or off-limits are the children, but for how long?
Of course that could be considered a 'slippery slope' argument, but...

No, some things should be off-limits, and children should be let to be children s long as possible. So few little girls and boys now, just over sexualized young adults. I played with dolls until I was 15... now they grow up so fast. A little sad to me.

314 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:07pm

re: #274 Charles

That's because the whole concept of "intelligent design" is fraudulent. It's creationism with a new name.

re: #297 rockman

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

Happy isogyres!

315 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:13pm

re: #307 RubyTuesday

My point is God did create something from nothing. Man cannot replicate that feat, so they twist and turn and fabricate theories. Anything to deny there is a God.
As for the questions with no answers, I'm satisfied to wait.
Faith isn't "reasonable" - it's faith. If it's not your thing, fine. I don't push my Christianity on others, but I don't hide it either. How hard is it for non-Christians to do the same?

Teaching evolution has nothing to do with denying that there is a God.

That's the point.

/or one of them, anyway.

316 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:21pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?

Because there are other things in the world. This is an argument much like getting mad at a police officer for enforcing the speed limit when stores are getting robbed or getting mad at the wife because she didn't stop cooking supper while you were telling a story. We can focus on more than one subject at a time.

317 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:32pm

re: #280 hazzyday

Leaders fire people, get used to it.

Yes, yes, they do. We're living through an era when scientists are being fired for giving honest opinions to the best of their abilities:

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

Is this what a Palin government would be like, as well? Sure, there's a difference between threatening a librarian and firing agency scientists ... but really only in the level of government.

These are not trivial issues. I am increasingly concerned that a McCain - Palin administration would be anti-science. McCain has already taken potshots at quite decent studies, just for political points:

[Link: newsgroups.derkeiler.com...]

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

318 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:50pm

re: #304 Celtic Templar

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

I think that's kinda sorta maybe close, but just off point.
Until somebody (and I've tried) can uncover what material she was concerned about, this ain't going away.

Maybe somebody will just ask her and she'll just answer.

319 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:52pm

re: #301 MandyManners

Do you not find it troubling that Obama wants to promote this type of organization? I have heard him mention it. It sounds like re-education camps for radicals.

320 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:26pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

This came up in my town also. The Mayor wanted to censor, the librarian didn't. They talked and agreed on an internet porn filter for the public pc's. Though I seem not to be able to find Mark Steyn books in the library now.

As a new mayor of course she is going to have this issue. Of course people will ask her to do it. Her job is to find the best path to serve the public.

Obama like Ayers apologizes for none of his past. And they like it that way.

321 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:26pm

re: #294 JHW

Some with nuggets of truth nested in the smear, like all good agitprop.

Hunting wolves from planes is legal in Alaska due to the overblown population of wolves, and was before she became governor. They like to keep the wolf population culled in urban areas so they don't eat the dogs and kids.

She belongs to the NRA, in Europe that makes you a gun nut.

She believes in G-D and creation, in Europe that means you must be a fundie.

She asked a librarian some policy questions on censorship, ergo to the left and Euros she wants to burn books.

322 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:52pm

none of these allegations are going to slow down sarah palin. she has won the country. she will be vice=president.
the dems and msm sense this too. it is driving them bat-shit nuts.

323 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:03pm

re: #317 Deaddog

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

324 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:08pm

re: #304 Celtic Templar

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

No, it's not unless it's the government that lights the fire and tosses the books. If I want to stage a public book burning in the local park, I'd be able to get the permit to do so.

325 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:13pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Who elected you choir director? The guy spouted like a beached whale and others call him on it. If you want to join him, fine. I'm an equal opportunity dinger and I ain't alone.

326 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:49pm

re: #305 Killgore Trout

The 10 Commandments were given to us by God, who cannot be anything other than morally correct. God is the source of their correctness. I have nothing to do with that. As for moral superiority, I claim none.

327 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:00pm

re: #324 MandyManners

Sorry, I meant to say that and allude to Nazi Book Burning Parties ...

328 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:47pm

re: #296 David IV of Georgia

Some denominations and Christian people fast for more than 180 days out of the year. I know some. They just roll their eyes when Muslims brag about how they gorge all night fast during Ramadan. Some people live on grapefruit and lettuce longer than that.


Thank you. I'm actually one of them.
but no grapefruit - makes my bellybutton pucker...

329 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:49pm

re: #326 godfrey

If you're not a monotheist, maybe 3 are religious, the other 7 are moral:

Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's house
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

330 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:00:21pm

re: #316 Outrider

Because there are other things in the world. This is an argument much like getting mad at a police officer for enforcing the speed limit when stores are getting robbed or getting mad at the wife because she didn't stop cooking supper while you were telling a story. We can focus on more than one subject at a time.

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

331 callahan23  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:00:36pm

re: #294 JHW

Right on.
I am a German and I am oft-times enraged about the hatred spewed on America.
Tell me a way out and I am goiiiing, gone and am left. :-(

332 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:03pm

re: #317 Deaddog

Yes, yes, they do. We're living through an era when scientists are being fired for giving honest opinions to the best of their abilities:

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

If they both are going to openly go across the aisles for solutions, I am not so worried about radical change. Obama will be the totalitarian. E.G. his treatment of Hilary as Annie Oakley. His shutting down of the role call at the convention to silence any Hilary noise. His backchannel into Oprah via his top advisors to leverage her not to interview Palin.

John McCain wouldn't do that stuff

333 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:15pm

re: #319 flynmudd

Do you not find it troubling that Obama wants to promote this type of organization? I have heard him mention it. It sounds like re-education camps for radicals.

That's EXACTLY what they are. This is very troubling. Forced "volunteerism" is slavery.

334 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:16pm

re: #325 Cap'n DOC

Who elected you choir director? The guy spouted like a beached whale and others call him on it. If you want to join him, fine. I'm an equal opportunity dinger and I ain't alone.

I just appreciate diversity of opinion (within reason)....this thread is alot better than some in previous nights....oh the humanity....

335 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:24pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Check out his links. It is a serious case of BDS

336 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:25pm

DD, now that's slick. Pimping leftist blogs and pimping the party line that McCain is Bush II. You are well practiced at this I see.

337 segesta[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:26pm
338 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Simple. If they'd elected Gore/Edwards, superman would still be alive.

339 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:47pm

re: #286 onepistoffyid

McCain is UP --Rassmussen .....by a considerable amount. Obama is down.

In fact if you look at the earlier thread on this website site .....Palin is actually ahead of BOTH OBama and McCain!

Not only that but some states that were strong Obama are now only "leaning" Obama and in a couple aren't even leaning Obama anymore --are now up for grabs. States there Obama EXPECTED and counted on winning.

There's at least two that I recall that were strongly Obama that are now TIED.
ALL since the announcement of Palin and her Wed. speech.

340 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:47pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

341 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:59pm

re: #327 Celtic Templar

Sorry, I meant to say that and allude to Nazi Book Burning Parties ...

Nasty time.

342 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:35pm

re: #330 jwb7605

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

Half as many chromosomes? You hang out with some crazy girls.

343 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:38pm

re: #276 rawmuse

I think quantum physics does play a role in the Creation and the Revelation story, in my OPINION (and I am no theologian).

Because the ones that put those and other books of the Bible in to the Bible were writing it from a place outside of our present understanding of Time, and yet had to choose language that would impart temporal meaning to we, the mere mortals. Thus we have words like "day, night, morning" etc.

The Book of Revelation was written in such a state.

The perspective is from the universe in its totality, from beyond temporal reference, and says so, right there in the opening passages.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Time is a construct of our physical world. But inspiration often comes from beyond this world, in my humble OPINION.

That is essentially my view. How does someone write about such a subject so that it will be both relevant to the immediate audience as well as cultures and people far into the future? The only recourse is the language of poetry and legends. The use of poetical imagery does not mean the story is false, it just means that there is more there than is written.

If someone wants to try to convince me that I must believe literally in a book from Moses' time (circa 1200 B.C. [B.C.E.]), I would like them to have at least mastered the language it is written in. I wonder how many of these people have mastered Mosaic-era Hebrew and are thoroughly acquainted with its idioms and idiosyncrasies? (Note: Modern Hebraic scholarship has an incomplete knowledge of this era of the Hebrew language.)

344 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:56pm

re: #322 nyc redneck

none of these allegations are going to slow down sarah palin. she has won the country. she will be vice=president.
the dems and msm sense this too. it is driving them bat-shit nuts.

More importantly, she represents a very real threat to them in the 2012 Presidential race and they know it.

345 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:57pm

OT

Right at the end of Hannity and Skeletor the Pig, Hannity ripped MSM a new one for attacking Gov. Palin and her family - he was in Saint Louis, and Skeletor the Pig was in NYC, but I swear if looks could kill, then Skeletor the Pig would be deceased. And Skeletor the Pig said ZIP on the subject and very quickly said - gotta go - bye!

Interesting.

346 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:03:39pm

re: #317 Deaddog

BDS.

347 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:03:42pm

re: #338 jwb7605

Simple. If they'd elected Gore/Edwards, superman would still be alive.

Oh, so the global warming / cooling / climate change stuff that we didn't sign on to Kyoto b/c of Clinton, but blame Bush for it stuff? That science ...

348 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:03pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Funding cuts I bet. They didn't get Uncle Sam to fund their pet projects with as much $$$ as they wanted.

349 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:05pm

re: #157 onepistoffyid

Hands off Deaddog!

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

350 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:36pm

re: #317 Deaddog

Yes science censorship is bad. McCain just has an earmark deletion priority with a cutoff line in a large large budget. It's not that he is anti science.

Scientists need to create a broader publishing and discussion system on the internet where working drafts can be logged and tracked.

351 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:46pm

re: #333 MandyManners

I know that the MSM won't tell the public about this and most people are too lazy to find out on their own. If Obama wins, we as a nation are royally screwed. Mark Levin said these types of groups were getting government funding during the 70s and Reagan cut them off. Why would our government fund its own demise? These groups are waaaaayyyy out there.

352 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:55pm

re: #339 Nancy

McCain is UP --Rassmussen .....by a considerable amount. Obama is down.

In fact if you look at the earlier thread on this website site .....Palin is actually ahead of BOTH OBama and McCain!

Not only that but some states that were strong Obama are now only "leaning" Obama and in a couple aren't even leaning Obama anymore --are now up for grabs. States there Obama EXPECTED and counted on winning.

There's at least two that I recall that were strongly Obama that are now TIED.
ALL since the announcement of Palin and her Wed. speech.

That is good news...I hope I am wrong about her...I come here for reassurance....I talk to alot of PA independents and she is not well received in my small circle....maybe I am not getting a good representative sample.

353 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:01pm

re: #340 Deaddog

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

I think it is pretty clear that it is not real.

354 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

I know not to click on it a second time! (How's your bruise?)

355 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #335 kcladderman

Check out his links. It is a serious case of BDS

Well, the rate of funding has declined relative to inflation for the first time in many years.
[Link: www.blog.thesietch.org...]

This is while our major economic competitors are dumping moneys into science like no one's business. Have you visited China recently? It's unreal. It's what the industrial revolution must have been like in England ... that is, if England were a police state.

356 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:46pm

re: #328 nightintheruts

Thank you. I'm actually one of them.
but no grapefruit - makes my bellybutton pucker...

Do you roll your eyes when hearing about the "sacrifice" of Ramadan? Hope you are enjoying you veggies today—I sure want a hamburger, but I can wait till tomorrow.

357 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:46pm

re: #311 Celtic Templar

I'll go by the Catholic version and say 1, 2 3, 9, and 10 have nothing to do with morality. #4 (Honor your father and mother) is grey area. What if they are Nazi pedophile serial killers? Should I still honour them?

358 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:50pm

re: #340 Deaddog

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

I'd need confirmation of some sort to buy into that list.
Especially with the remark that it's on the book burners favorites.

359 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:56pm

re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

Let a dead dog lie...!

360 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:04pm

re: #352 onepistoffyid

That is good news...I hope I am wrong about her...I come here for reassurance....I talk to alot of PA independents and she is not well received in my small circle....maybe I am not getting a good representative sample.

My anecdote beats yours, women in South Jersey (typically blue dog dems) LOVE Palin.

361 itellu3times  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:08pm

Tag clouds for Palin's and McCain's speeches at Belmont.

Amusing.

362 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:18pm

re: #330 jwb7605

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

They have no choice most times? I know it makes me mad when I'm talking and she is holding a conversation with the grandkid and assures me she "is listening". ;-)>

363 LoFlyer[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:22pm
364 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:27pm

re: #313 Former SSG

No, some things should be off-limits, and children should be let to be children s long as possible. So few little girls and boys now, just over sexualized young adults. I played with dolls until I was 15... now they grow up so fast. A little sad to me.


The good thing is...more people are coming out about sexual abuse. I sometimes have media attention in what I do and I have soooo many older women come up to me and say, "I wish people like you had been around when I was a child". It's very sad.
I told the state legislature here that we'd better turn some of our attention from saving the world for the sake of our children and start saving our children for the sake of the world.
But that's my personal soapbox, sorry...

365 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:34pm

re: #350 hazzyday

Yes science censorship is bad. McCain just has an earmark deletion priority with a cutoff line in a large large budget. It's not that he is anti science.

Scientists need to create a broader publishing and discussion system on the internet where working drafts can be logged and tracked.

That's not necessarily a bad idea, except for the impact on IP. We're expected to *commercialize* what we do; the push for translational science is huge, and rightly so. We're expected to contribute to American economic productivity. Hell, I've already had to block access to one of my grants because a company tried to FOI it.

366 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:54pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Always honor your parents. If they are Nazi serial killers, the best honor you can do is turn them in to save their souls.

367 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:23pm

re: #345 Catttt

OT

Right at the end of Hannity and Skeletor the Pig, Hannity ripped MSM a new one for attacking Gov. Palin and her family - he was in Saint Louis, and Skeletor the Pig was in NYC, but I swear if looks could kill, then Skeletor the Pig would be deceased. And Skeletor the Pig said ZIP on the subject and very quickly said - gotta go - bye!

Interesting.

Missed them first time around.
Now you've made me miss my scheduled bedtime for the "repeat".

GOTTA see that.

368 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:33pm

re: #359 onepistoffyid

Let a dead dog lie...!

While the support is appreciate, I really can take care of myself. Thanks, though.

369 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:34pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

No, you weren't wrong. You're wrong now. There are a lot of strong women in the Republican party. McCain could have made a much safer choice. Did you listen to the speeches at the GOP convention? And the responses? Ridge (he was my governor too) was a dud. I thought Mitt was pretty bad as well (though I'm in the minority on that one). Huck and Rudy did a great job of riling up the crowd but mostly played the attack game. I didn't hear Pawlenty but understand he was less than inspiring.

And then there was Sarah, who brought the house down.

McCain has, on more than one occasion, gone out on a limb and come back with the goods. I wouldn't sell him short on this pick if I were you.

370 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:35pm

One thing I like about great painting and poetry and sculpture is that they are representative of the genius of inpsiration of the author. I always perceive this as a divine inspiration beyound my mundane dreams. I think I am looking at a person's connection to God in some fashion.

371 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:54pm

re: #332 hazzyday

If they both are going to openly go across the aisles for solutions, I am not so worried about radical change. Obama will be the totalitarian. E.G. his treatment of Hilary as Annie Oakley. His shutting down of the role call at the convention to silence any Hilary noise. His backchannel into Oprah via his top advisors to leverage her not to interview Palin.

His call for a civilian national defense force (presumably for domestic purposes).

372 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:01pm

re: #317 Deaddog

But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

You are a BDS lout, screaming broad-based persecution of science based upon specific criticism of specific studies/programs.

We deal in FACTS here.
FOAD, asshole!

373 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:04pm

re: #334 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you...

The quote implies that you are in agreement and not looking for diversity of opinion, or am I misunderstanding what you said?

374 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:29pm

re: #314 onepistoffyid

Believe it or not, sometimes I cross the polars and shove in the quarter wave plate ans spin the stage until I blow my mind. know what I'm sayin?

375 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:33pm

re: #344 Outrider

More importantly, she represents a very real threat to them in the 2012 Presidential race and they know it.

yes, that too.
i love how she is so unfazed by these flailing maniacs.
she has incredible inner strength and they are so threatened by that.

376 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:33pm

re: #358 jwb7605

I'd need confirmation of some sort to buy into that list.
Especially with the remark that it's on the book burners favorites.

I agree, although you do tend to see the same lists over and over for real. The book burners talk to one another. It's hard to know what to be offended about if you haven't actually read the book.

377 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #372 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Now that's a welt key.

378 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Kilgore you were raised by decent people, not Nazi pedophile serial killers! And if you go back in the thread, I qualified that by saying "honor your elders," something we don't do enough of in the US....

379 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:37pm

re: #329 Celtic Templar

I rule out the coveting. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a mind crime. as long as there's no action to take your neighbor's wife or house you are free to think whatever you want. Thinking something is not immoral, acting is.

380 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:38pm

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And (while you're reposting the link) of COURSE I knew you'd have to reply. I've got your number. Dogs RULE!


Upding!
Can I offer you some nice gato tacos?

381 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:09pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

So not coveting someone's wife or property is religious? I think it's moral. I don't see the religion in it.

382 Naso Tang  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:17pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?

Do you think you are sneaking this one by Charles, and he doesn't notice?

383 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:27pm

re: #361 itellu3times

Tag clouds for Palin's and McCain's speeches at Belmont.

Amusing.

Interesting.
I liked this sentence:

McCain’s speech was the declaration of someone with nothing left to prove.
384 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:32pm

re: #355 Deaddog

Well, the rate of funding has declined relative to inflation for the first time in many years.
[Link: www.blog.thesietch.org...]

This is while our major economic competitors are dumping moneys into science like no one's business. Have you visited China recently? It's unreal. It's what the industrial revolution must have been like in England ... that is, if England were a police state.

But at what cost? I do like the we should model our selfs after China argument though.
Where have I heard that before......hummmmmm

385 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:34pm

re: #355 Deaddog

But on the other hand spending on defense science is up, spending on energy research is up. Spending on your favored science might be down.

386 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:59pm

And I don't know what's up with Deaddog. The last thread I saw him (just a guess) on, he was making good arguments and a lot of sense. Go figure.

387 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:00pm

re: #364 nightintheruts

You do good work. Thank you.

388 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:19pm

re: #372 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You are a BDS lout, screaming broad-based persecution of science based upon specific criticism of specific studies/programs.

We deal in FACTS here.
FOAD, asshole!

The truly amusing thing is that I appear to be the only one posting links. Admittedly, whatever comes up on Google may or may not be reliable, although I try to vet what I post for at least a semblance of factuality (quotes in newspapers, facts and figures on the decline in funding, for example). But, as I have previously said, words speak for themselves, mine and yours.

I obviously have an agenda, but it doesn't have to do with liberalism. I'm always very open about my agenda. It's about science. It's about an American technocracy that I feel is losing out to competitors.

389 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:23pm

re: #337 segesta

STINKY!

390 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:35pm

re: #288 piglet-u93

Judaism and Christianity have an identical creation story (Genesis). Islam is quite different. Some of us consider Islam to be a plagarization of the Abrahamic religion.

Scattered thoughts here -

Judaism and Christianity actually both have the same two creation stories but differ as to emphasis. Judaism focuses on Genesis 1, with the six-day creation and the Sabbath. Christianity focuses on Genesis 2, with Original Sin, the serpent, and the need for an anti-serpent to undo what the serpent did. In Documentary Hypothesis terms, Judaism is P here (although D in practice) and Christianity is J here (although P in practice).

Muslims seem to be D in theory and practice; but their creation myth is more drawn from the Book of Enoch, which is kind of an uber-uber-P. Muslims have a Garden of Eden story too but it is rewritten so as to remove the original-sin implications, and incidentally to assert the need for modest clothing (rather than implying that clothing is a result of the Fall).

I have no idea how Jews handle Genesis 2.

Catholic Christians ignore Genesis 1 except insofar as it institutes a seven-day week; creationists treat it as a science text.

391 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:35pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Ah, I do disagree with you. I believe the act of coveting is quite immoral and affects your actions.

392 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:43pm

re: #365 Deaddog

That's not necessarily a bad idea, except for the impact on IP. We're expected to *commercialize* what we do; the push for translational science is huge, and rightly so. We're expected to contribute to American economic productivity. Hell, I've already had to block access to one of my grants because a company tried to FOI it.

yes the scientist needs to be able to create his/her own web document in IPv6 and assign viewing and editing priveleges to it. Once moved off local storage into central secure storage it can acquire some legitmacy. John McCain would go for that. He is Web 3.0 now.

393 CanuckInTN  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:46pm

I'm a fairly new hatchling, so be gentle with me!

I find the whole conflict between "Creation" and "Evolution" to be silly. Evolution is not the antithesis of Creation.

Despite the title of the work, the "Origin of Species" did not make any real comment on the actual origin of life, only how one existing form of life morphs into other, more complex forms of life through mutation and natural selection.

So, if you believe in a Creator, tell me which one is more miraculous:
1) A Creator who created the heavens and the Earth, and all the flora and fauna thereon, in 6 days, then took a day off to admire his work
OR
2) A Creator who 13.5 billion years ago set the rules of nature and created a tiny spec of energy in the emptiness, in the knowledge that in the fullness of time, those laws of nature would create a vast Universe, including galaxies, stars, and a tiny planet, where life would come about, and through His Law of Evolution, turn into beings that would wonder at His splendor?

Personally, I think #2 is the more miraculous one. And here's the kicker, just like Evolution, the Big Bang theory tells how the Universe evolved from moments after the event, it says nothing about what happened before the event, or what caused the event to occur...

394 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #329 Celtic Templar

If you're not a monotheist, maybe 3 are religious, the other 7 are moral:
/don't be upset friends

Honor your father and mother..they may kick your butt
You shall not murder cause harm to anything...unless you need to eat it.. I command tasty BBQ sauce.
You shall not commit adulterykeep it in your pants asshat.
You shall not stealRip off anyone..no matter who they are..( The Playboy mansion is exempt )
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor...( don't be a lying bastard)
You shall not covet your neighbor's house ( especially sub-prime preditory lending..big no no)
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife Lawn mower


/I'm so sorry..

395 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:14pm

re: #285 Lynn B.

Sorry. We're cross-posting here. I'm a little slow tonight.

You have to be suspicious of one poll that's so out of line with all the rest. That's why I rely more on RCP's averages. And they show Obama ahead by 3-4 points during the same time period, taking Zogby's data into account.

Zogby's last poll also had McCain up, iirc. Not even mentioned on RCP. But- time will tell.

396 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:19pm

re: #381 Celtic Templar

Yes, my desires are my own. As long as there's no action, there's no foul. I don't think a just god would punish people for very human acts such as envy as long as there's no action. It's a thought crime.

397 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:26pm

Attention all lizards (you know who you are):

"A lot" is two words.

As you were.

398 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:30pm

re: #386 Lynn B.

And I don't know what's up with Deaddog. The last thread I saw him (just a guess) on, he was making good arguments and a lot of sense. Go figure.

Same person, Lynn. Sorry if my support of science in the political realm seems askance with my support of science in the, er, scientific realm. It seems consistent to me. Shrug.

399 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:33pm

re: #363 LoFlyer

I won't quote this time-------delete in 3...2...1

400 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:45pm

re: #356 David IV of Georgia

Do you roll your eyes when hearing about the "sacrifice" of Ramadan? Hope you are enjoying you veggies today—I sure want a hamburger, but I can wait till tomorrow.


well you know...they are in vogue and all. We never have been. = )

yeah, a burger sounds good! One of those Hardee's big juicy blood-mud Sara Palin eating kind!

401 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:47pm

re: #351 flynmudd

I know that the MSM won't tell the public about this and most people are too lazy to find out on their own. If Obama wins, we as a nation are royally screwed. Mark Levin said these types of groups were getting government funding during the 70s and Reagan cut them off. Why would our government fund its own demise? These groups are waaaaayyyy out there.

Who's been funding them?

402 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:12:14pm

re: #187 Cartman

Sorry, pal. All those who spout nonsense here are fair dame.

I've seen a lot of fair dames in my time, many of which do spout nonsense, but it seems rather bigoted of you to insinuate that all fair dames spout nonsense.

/s :)

403 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:12:23pm

re: #401 MandyManners

I will do some fact checking to find out.

404 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:12:24pm

re: #392 hazzyday

yes the scientist needs to be able to create his/her own web document in IPv6 and assign viewing and editing priveleges to it. Once moved off local storage into central secure storage it can acquire some legitmacy. John McCain would go for that. He is Web 3.0 now.

An amusing concept, but it wouldn't pass legal muster. At least from what I know of patent law. I'm happy to be corrected.

405 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:12:29pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

/I'm so sorry..

Lawn mowers didn't exist in the time of Moses, infidel.

/

406 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:11pm

re: #405 Celtic Templar

Lawn mowers didn't exist in the time of Moses, infidel.

/

Sure they did....they were called "goats"!

;-P

407 itellu3times  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:30pm

re: #330 jwb7605

How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?

Half as many chromosomes as what?

For all life on earth, human and otherwise, males and females have the same number of chromosomes. Or did I miss the memo?

408 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:38pm

re: #377 jaunte

Now that's a welt key.

*un-manly blush*
ur ... gee, thanks!

409 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:41pm

re: #381 Celtic Templar

So not coveting someone's wife or property is religious? I think it's moral. I don't see the religion in it.

I covet David Duchovny's wife. But I respect that he plays par golf with her and I don't.

410 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:45pm

re: #337 segesta

Ummm. Clean up in aisle 337! And wring out the mop. Please.

411 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:13:54pm

re: #391 Celtic Templar

Then we'll have to disagree. Coveting is thought, there's no harm in thinking something. If the commandment had stated "thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's house or wife" I'd agree. Envy is a thought and an emotion; they don't harm anyone.

412 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:16pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I'll go by the Catholic version and say 1, 2 3, 9, and 10 have nothing to do with morality. #4 (Honor your father and mother) is grey area. What if they are Nazi pedophile serial killers? Should I still honour them?

One should love and respect them as one can. Obeying them when they ask or demand what is wrong, immoral, or unrighteous is not required by this command. The commands do not condone or require one to sin to keep them. If someone makes a vow to do something immoral, he ought to break his vow even though breaking a vow is considered a sin.

413 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:31pm

re: #405 Celtic Templar

Lawn mowers didn't exist in the time of Moses, infidel.

/

Yes they did. They called them "goats."

414 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:32pm

re: #385 Thanos

But on the other hand spending on defense science is up, spending on energy research is up. Spending on your favored science might be down.

As a recipient of grants for both energy and defense, I can assure you things are tough all over. But that's anecdotal. And it's not necessarily a good idea to squeeze us dry anywhere. We really don't want the first major advances in stem cell engineering to be patented on the Pacific Rim. In my opinion.

415 CanuckInTN  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:33pm

re: #407 itellu3times

Half as many chromosomes as what?

For all life on earth, human and otherwise, males and females have the same number of chromosomes. Or did I miss the memo?

And actually, the last male chromosome (the infamous Y) is actually a runt compared to the equivalent X in the female.

416 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:35pm

re: #368 Deaddog

While the support is appreciate, I really can take care of myself. Thanks, though.

Ummmmm...it was an INSULT.

417 Naso Tang  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:42pm

re: #406 talon_262

Sure they did....they were called "goats"!

;-P

That's not why you shouldn't covet anyone's goat.

;)

418 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:44pm

re: #387 Former SSG

You do good work. Thank you.

thanks - wasn't looking for kudos though = )
Thank you for caring!

419 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:47pm

re: #380 Jim in Virginia

Upding!
Can I offer you some nice gato tacos?

Slobber pant DROOL!

420 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:51pm

We seem to be leading the world in Patents as well, must be all that money bad ol' W took away from science....

/

421 swamprat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:14:54pm

re: #150 DeliLama

Brilliant

422 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:15:00pm

re: #410 Cap'n DOC

Ummm. Clean up in aisle 337! And wring out the mop. Please.

I think the USS Stinky Beaumont is going to have to break out the photon torpedoes on that one...

;-P

423 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:15:14pm

re: #406 talon_262

Beat me. I doff my hat.

424 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:15:39pm

re: #157 onepistoffyid

Hands off Deaddog!

Or what? You'll cry?

425 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:15:52pm

re: #413 Noam Sayin'

JINX!...owe me a Coke!

;-)

426 tunnelrat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:03pm

I love Sarah Palin, and ......I AM A CREATIONIST!

Call the cops! Set loose the hounds!

427 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:12pm

As I mentioned, having been on a public library board for 25 years (no longer) these sort of requests from citizens or patrons are NOT unusual --anywhere. They occur all the time.

Rarely will anything be banned. I know of no instance where books were actually removed from the shelves. However, the library can adopt a use policy and certainly can limit access to certain materials. Meaning they are available but not to children for example. Or with some material, children and teens may check them out with a parental permission form.

I can recall the most parental complaints were with the classic record HOWL (see how long ago this was). It was never banned but a policy was adopted that the teen under 18 did have to have parental permission.

Parents DO have the right to make that decision and it was never banned but since the majority of patrons at that time objected, restricted.

428 sngnsgt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:13pm

re: #397 Catttt

Yes Ms Caaaatttt

/sarc

429 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:13pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Yes, my desires are my own. As long as there's no action, there's no foul. I don't think a just god would punish people for very human acts such as envy as long as there's no action. It's a thought crime.


Not sure what your statement has to do with morality vs. religion of the 10 commandments. If I told my wife I lusted after another, it sure as hell would cause some problems.


Actually that brings up the 7 deadly sins, which I ascribe no religiosity to:

1 Lust
2 Gluttony
3 Greed
4 Sloth
5 Wrath
6 Envy
7 Pride

430 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:34pm

re: #385 Thanos

But on the other hand spending on defense science is up, spending on energy research is up. Spending on your favored science might be down.

Precisely.
His or her mommy has put the cookie jar on the top shelf.

431 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:41pm

re: #404 Deaddog

An amusing concept, but it wouldn't pass legal muster. At least from what I know of patent law. I'm happy to be corrected.

New world. All information needs to adapt to the new IT world. I know nothing about scientific publishing. I do know IPv6 can make it more effective. My career path is adjusting to blogs, wiki, and sharepoint and faced with legal policies, expanded security exposures etc. Scientists can do that also. They probably have the brains to do it better.

432 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:44pm

re: #418 nightintheruts

Well, I couldn't do it. Thank you for your big heart. We need more of you.

433 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:16:56pm

re: #426 tunnelrat

I love Sarah Palin, and ......I'm not a Creationist!

High five!

434 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:06pm

re: #416 MandyManners

Ummmmm...it was an INSULT.

Ha! My bad. Thanks, missed that.

435 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:08pm

re: #337 segesta

That reminds me. What's the count on annefrance, lately?

436 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:11pm

re: #414 Deaddog

See my link re: patents.

The other thing you have to ask is should government be funding so much science, or should we instead be challenging the private sector more? NASA sure needs a rethink.

437 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:15pm

re: #413 Noam Sayin'

then just say do not covet my goat.

438 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:23pm

re: #371 christheprofessor

His call for a civilian national defense force (presumably for domestic purposes).

I think it is funny that the people that freak out about Bush's supposed "police state" don't say anything about this statement of BHO.

439 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:55pm

re: #425 talon_262

JINX!...owe me a Coke!

;-)

Too late. I already doffed a hat.

440 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:17:56pm

re: #431 hazzyday

You'll have a button that say "submit for patent approval"

After filling these 30 screens of Federal document information out. Don't press the back button on your browser.

441 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:18:00pm

re: #403 flynmudd

I will do some fact checking to find out.

I doubt it was Soros.

442 JHW  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:18:03pm

re: #321 Thanos

I knew about the wolves in Alaska thing , it's been on the books long before she came into office as you know. They don't take any of this in context, it's almost a repeat of Kos smears. A century ago there were still wolves in France IIRC, and certainly Russia. Europe, like the urbanized parts of the US is so disconnected from the wild and food that doesn't come from a neat package that they are completely clueless about places like Alaska and Canada. That's how they fall easy prey to environmental scares.

About 10 years ago, on a nice clear winter day, a German exchange college student went missing in the Olympic National Park in my area. Turns out, he'd got one of those little park service brochures with a tiny map and decided to take a hike up to a high basin with lakes. In shorts, packing 2 sandwiches and an orange in the middle of December. I went on the search party for him, there were many of us, and I had familiarity with the area. Up high the fog blew in and he lost the trail in the meadows, extremely rough ground all around, heavily forested with many, many canyons, cliffs and gullies. He was never found, even till this day. A helicopter almost crashed in the fog looking for him, but the tree cover is so thick and the fog was so heavy that it was a forlorn hope anyway. Someone might stumble across his bones in 50 years or so, like they still do occasionally with plane wrecks (I had co-workers that found 2, complete with skeletons, that had been missing over 10 years), His friends couldn't understand it, only 10 or 15 miles in on the map, easy day hike. This in Washington, not near the wilderness Alaska has, but enough to break anyone of the idea the earth is all paved over, and the wilds are a Disney park for people's careless amusement.

443 wanglese  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:18:45pm

Re Sarah Palin banning books?
There are books banned in libraries and schools in the UK because they may offend certain relgious groups into rioting. IIRC, some books in the US have been deemed offensive, and banned in places like Berkeley :-)

You know, some books for kids with stories about pigs in them.

Some books can't even be published. Like the one about one of Mohammeds child brides.

So the "books were banned" argument no longer holds any sway, and it shouldn't.

Just remind the left looneys about the academic who went immediately to the Muslim brotherhood in order to PREVENT a book from even being published.

444 Proud to be American  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:18:50pm

I haven't had the time to read any recent comments, so sorry if this is already posted.

Sarah Palin is Winning the "Who Won the Week" poll at DailyKos

445 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:18:59pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Can I make a go at this one? To covet (in my book) is akin to theft. If it is my neighbors wife, I am stealing from my spouse. Those thoughts I may have of the wife of my neighbor I should be harboring of my own.

446 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:19:26pm

re: #435 Noam Sayin'

That reminds me. What's the count on annefrance, lately?

-418

447 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:19:26pm

re: #402 Slumbering Behemoth

I know, I know. I fat-fingered the f'n keyboard, again. Fair dames are cool, tho. ;)

448 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:20:04pm

re: #390 Zimriel

JEDP is nice but flawed and won't stand up. Wellhausen was bright, but wrong IMO.

449 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:20:07pm

re: #420 Thanos

We seem to be leading the world in Patents as well, must be all that money bad ol' W took away from science....

/

Ah, well, you know that old phrase, never look behind you? Maybe I should have heeded it. Because it's not that "we're number one," it's that we're no longer number one with a bullet.

[Link: www.wipo.int...]

(See Section C.3, sorry I couldn't find the figure to link to)

450 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:20:30pm

re: #376 Deaddog

I agree, although you do tend to see the same lists over and over for real. The book burners talk to one another. It's hard to know what to be offended about if you haven't actually read the book.

I've read several of those. Some of them suck, but aren't "offensive".
My wife liked the ones I thought sucked.

My wife would be embarrassed to read Robert Heinlein, one of my favorites. For pure enjoyment, though, I buy anything from both Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven.

One day I was talking to my grandDaughter about books. She listed all the books she read this summer.

So I asked her "Have you read any George Orwell?"
She gave me the blank stare, and I listed a few titles. She had read Animal Farm.

I said to her "You need to remember the authors name. That way you'll get a feel of whether you like his work. When somebody asks you have you read "whatever author", they're also asking you if you understand his point of view and outlook. That usually gets an interesting conversation started".

I could see lightbulbs turning on. It was a good day.

451 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:21:04pm

re: #427 Nancy

As I mentioned, having been on a public library board for 25 years (no longer) these sort of requests from citizens or patrons are NOT unusual --anywhere. They occur all the time.

Rarely will anything be banned. I know of no instance where books were actually removed from the shelves. However, the library can adopt a use policy and certainly can limit access to certain materials. Meaning they are available but not to children for example. Or with some material, children and teens may check them out with a parental permission form.

I can recall the most parental complaints were with the classic record HOWL (see how long ago this was). It was never banned but a policy was adopted that the teen under 18 did have to have parental permission.

Parents DO have the right to make that decision and it was never banned but since the majority of patrons at that time objected, restricted.

Of course, pointing out simple facts like this aren't gonna fit the narrative that deaddog and others (such as the MSM and libs) that Palin is a Creationist that wants to ban books and is trying to push her personal beliefs on her constituents (although the evidence for that is specious and thin on facts).

452 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:21:36pm

re: #401 MandyManners

Donors

During the past 15 years, our mission and successful programs have inspired more than $25 million in private donations, $25 million in public support, and $25 million from our community partners. Our unique public-private-partner funding structure allows us to leverage our private donations with funding from AmeriCorps and Partner Organizations to generate a huge social return on investment.

453 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:21:39pm

re: #439 Noam Sayin'

Too late. I already doffed a hat.

I'll take what I can get...

;-P

454 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:21:51pm

re: #388 Deaddog

I obviously have an agenda, but it doesn't have to do with liberalism. I'm always very open about my agenda. It's about science. It's about an American technocracy that I feel is losing out to competitors.

Perhaps I don't see a need to post links. Every month, I receive my copy of the IEEE Spectrum. From my perspective, America is an overall powerhouse of technology. I see it all around me in the industry I work in.

My prior still stands. Your agenda isn't at ALL about science as a whole. It's about your particular little proof-texted niche. You are a selfish little whiner. FOAD.

455 JustMyView  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:21:54pm

OT: Thought LGFers might be interested in this very touching WaPo column by Robert Novak, who has the same kind of brain cancer that Ted Kennedy has.

456 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:23:05pm

I should add that the library I served on the board was in a very cosmopolitan, suburban area outside of Chicago and not at all conservative nor ultra religious.

The objections to HOWL was the language.

No one should think that it is just ultra religious or conservatives who might object to what material or books are available to their children. Lots of libraries get objections for books like Mein Kampf too.

457 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:23:15pm

re: #436 Thanos

See my link re: patents.

The other thing you have to ask is should government be funding so much science, or should we instead be challenging the private sector more? NASA sure needs a rethink.

You won't find me disagreeing about NASA. The fact is, though, that the private sector typically has near-term profit on its mind (ask any start-up), while researchers at Universities pretty much remain the bulwark for future progress. I wish it were otherwise. I don't think the system is efficient, it's just the best one we have. And while I'll put an American science up against almost any of their world counterparts (well, except maybe an older Russian ... they had an unbelievable educational system for the elite), we can lose based on fewer researchers, less research, and less adventuresome research. All of which require bad ol' money.

458 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:08pm

re: #261 Sharmuta

It's unfortunate that Sarah Palin seems to be the only one coming under this level of scrutiny while 0bama and biden are getting the softball treatment. I think she's tough and she can take it, but her toughness doesn't make it any less hypocritical on the part of the media and pundits.

Where are the media when Joe Biden keeps slandering that poor (deceased) man who was driving the truck in the accident with his wife and children? He keeps saying that his wife/children were killed by a "man who decided to stop off and drink his lunch", when no evidence of alcohol consumption by the truck driver was found. But he keeps saying this, and he keeps on hurting the family of the truck driver (who passed away in '99).

Where is the media when he makes these statements? WHY AREN'T THEY CALLING HIM OUT IN THIS LIE?

459 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:17pm

re: #452 flynmudd

Donors

During the past 15 years, our mission and successful programs have inspired more than $25 million in private donations, $25 million in public support, and $25 million from our community partners. Our unique public-private-partner funding structure allows us to leverage our private donations with funding from AmeriCorps and Partner Organizations to generate a huge social return on investment.

That's a lot of money. A lot.

I wonder if they're connected to MoveOn.org nowadays.

460 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:25pm

re: #449 Deaddog

Patents filed isnt' really a great measure, if you toggle the settings in that link above you will see that in the patents filed category Japan consistently outranks us the past few years. It's patents granted that matters.

461 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:27pm

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. We have another theory to consider.

462 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:40pm

re: #451 talon_262

Oops...let's try this again:

Of course, pointing out simple facts like this isn't gonna fit the narrative that deaddog and others (such as the MSM and libs) are pushing that Palin is a Creationist that wants to ban books and is trying to push her personal beliefs on her constituents (although the evidence for that is specious and thin on facts).

463 itellu3times  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:45pm

re: #415 CanuckInTN

And actually, the last male chromosome (the infamous Y) is actually a runt compared to the equivalent X in the female.

So OK we can have XY chromosome envy, but it's 23 any way you go.

Unless you're one of those XYY types or other exotics, then I dunno.

464 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:24:48pm

Greetings Running dogs of Yankee Imperialism.
Anybody catch Hannity & Colmes? Why doesn't anybody call Colmes on his smear of Sarah Palin, about the Down infant not being hers.
I find Colmes to be a despicable cretin.

465 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:25:29pm

re: #354 MandyManners

I know not to click on it a second time! (How's your bruise?)

Aw c'mon, I thought it was funny. I was gonna link the original before, but thought the spoof was better.

And bruise? Just who are you trying to fool, lady. I've got a knot on my noggin the size of a baseball thanks to you. Meanie.
/

466 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:25:31pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Then we'll have to disagree. Coveting is thought, there's no harm in thinking something. If the commandment had stated "thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's house or wife" I'd agree. Envy is a thought and an emotion; they don't harm anyone.


the problem comes in, I think, when those thoughts began to consume someone, and then they become action. I suppose certain thoughts could lead to bad actions in an unstable mind...
Or can the thoughts of envy, lust, whatever, whenever played over and over cause a mind to become unstable?

467 Wendya  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:26:21pm

re: #92 Deaddog

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

Okay, we have a fired librarian who claims Palin asked her if the library would ban books. What we don't know is what prompted the conversation and the exact details. Did a group of citizens approach the mayor to ask for the library's position? Were they asking if they could submit lists of books they didn't want their children to check out? The position of many libraries across the nation is to allow kids to check out any book they wish regardless of age, content or parental objections.

468 CanuckInTN  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:26:30pm

re: #463 itellu3times

So OK we can have XY chromosome envy, but it's 23 any way you go.

Unless you're one of those XYY types or other exotics, then I dunno.

Uh...no, it's 46...23 pairs.

469 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:26:42pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I rule out the coveting. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a mind crime. as long as there's no action to take your neighbor's wife or house you are free to think whatever you want. Thinking something is not immoral, acting is.

I disagree. If you allow a desire too much time in your mind, it becomes an obsession, and then it becomes part of your mindset. You'll act according to your mental makeup as soon as you get the courage to do so.

This is just human nature and not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, you might be obsessed with some girl and then end up married with five healthy children, and that's great! But what if this girl was someone else's wife. Then it's a "mind crime" and, I say, a detriment to your morality even if you never act on it...

470 A.W.[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:02pm
471 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:12pm

Skeletor is dead man walking.
Kirsten Powers will take his chair.

472 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:34pm

re: #454 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Perhaps I don't see a need to post links.

Or maybe I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, since I do a heckuva lot more of this than just "read IEEE Spectrum?" And since I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, I don't have a need to resort to ad hominems to make my point. Works out nicely, don't you think?

473 kcladderman[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:34pm
474 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:36pm

re: #442 JHW

Where I live now, I have wolves in my backyard too. They were never endangered to the degree claimed --meaning they disappeared in developed areas but were always still thriving in more wilderness areas.

Not quite in my backyard but I do see them within a half mile.

475 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:27:46pm

re: #269 godfrey

I never get what I want, either. Right now, I want another cannoli. But there are no more cannoli. The plate is empty. There is no more ricotta. The clouds, nevertheless, pass in their own direction.

That could be expanded and in a weird way, made into a haiku.

476 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:06pm

re: #466 nightintheruts

the problem comes in, I think, when those thoughts began to consume someone, and then they become action. I suppose certain thoughts could lead to bad actions in an unstable mind...
Or can the thoughts of envy, lust, whatever, whenever played over and over cause a mind to become unstable?

(I swear I am not obsessed with nightintheruts. lol)

477 piglet-u93[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:19pm
478 Sol Roth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:33pm

OT /Post & Run/ HEADS UP PARANOID COMMIE SMEAR TSUNAMI ALERT

From the WSJ (subsription)

Regulators Shutter Silver State Bank
By DAVID ENRICH and DAMIAN PALETTA
September 5, 2008 10:09 p.m.

State and federal regulators on Friday shut down Silver State Bank, the latest in a series of bank failures and one that could ripple through the presidential campaign.

Until recently, the son of Republican nominee Sen. John McCain sat on Silver State's board and was a member of its three-person audit committee, which was responsible for overseeing the company's financial condition.

Andrew McCain left the Henderson, Nev., bank July 26 after five months on the board, citing "personal reasons." He is Sen. McCain's adopted son from his first marriage.

There is no evidence that Mr. McCain, 46, committed any wrongdoing. Nor are there signs that Sen. McCain, the Arizona Republican who on Thursday accepted his party's presidential nomination, had any knowledge of or involvement in Silver State's problems.

[SNIP]

Don't freak out. Andrew joined the board for a brief while, was basically a wall flower, didn't like what he saw and split. I want the LGF community to be prepared for the GIGANTIC COMMIE SPIN TSUNAMI that will surely occur following this.

I never even heard of Andrew until this story.

479 Colonel Panik  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:37pm

re: #242 WhiteRasta

It is the Whole Wheat Month of Ramadan-Bomb-An-Infidel.

The local MSM piss-rag has daily articles about how wonderful the ROP is with pictures of the peace-loving ROP types having hummus and falafel after sunset.

This shiite is being forced down the the throats of our children at school in the name of multi-culti "tolerance" and "inclusiveness".

No mention of suicide bombing for mohammed or any negative thing to do with the so-called ROP.

Holy Crap. Is it Ramadamadingdong again? Really? Damn thing comes earlier every year!

By the beard of the Prophet, got to get my Ramadamadingdong shopping list in order!

New burkha for Fatima. The one with the gold sequins.

10 AK-47 mags for Khalid. He always keeps leaving them behind on the battlefield when he runs away from the Zionists.

Some Semtex for Achmed. I want to help him start the New Year with a bang.

And oh, yeah, some more centrifuges for Mahmoud. The guy's got several thousand of them already and keeps asking for more. What's up with that?

480 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:40pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Science education suffered under Nixon and Carter. I remember going into freshman chemistry and calculus in college and finding out every single foreign student from Taiwan and Iran was 2 years ahead of me in math. And the instructors graded on a curve. I ended up changing majors after a semester of D's.

Now if I were John McCain, or Sarah Palin, or Chuck Norris, I would have been smart and gotten one of them to tutor me. I was just pissed off then.

481 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:28:54pm

Sarah Palin will implode, just wait.

/KosKiddie about to implode

482 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:07pm

I'm outta here.
Going to watch Cary Grant and Grace Kelly.
/well ... okay ... Grace Kelly!

{goddess}

David IV, keep an eye out for those waterspouts!

483 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:09pm
484 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:18pm

re: #393 CanuckInTN

)

A Creator who 13.5 billion years ago set the rules of nature and created a tiny spec of energy in the emptiness, in the knowledge that in the fullness of time, those laws of nature would create a vast Universe, including galaxies, stars, and a tiny planet, where life would come about, and through His Law of Evolution, turn into beings that would wonder at His splendor?

Well said. No problem putting one foot in front of the other with that view.

485 BBev  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:22pm

re: #470 A.W.

Dead man walking

486 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:32pm

re: #469 Zimriel

I disagree. If you allow a desire too much time in your mind, it becomes an obsession, and then it becomes part of your mindset. You'll act according to your mental makeup as soon as you get the courage to do so.

This is just human nature and not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, you might be obsessed with some girl and then end up married with five healthy children, and that's great! But what if this girl was someone else's wife. Then it's a "mind crime" and, I say, a detriment to your morality even if you never act on it...

And we're not talking about crime and punishment. He talked about morality vs. religion and sidetracked it with the "acting on it" part. Is morality defined by acts or values?

487 Basho  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:29:34pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Then we'll have to disagree. Coveting is thought, there's no harm in thinking something. If the commandment had stated "thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's house or wife" I'd agree. Envy is a thought and an emotion; they don't harm anyone.

Thought-crimes are gaining ground these days. Remember that story from England about toddlers being punished for rejecting foreign food in order to stop racism?

488 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:09pm

Greetings, Sharmuta, Lao Stinky is back among us! The uncarved block!

I guess I am not quite as invested in the Creationism vs. Darwinism debate as are many lizards; my main (perhaps only) concern is its implication for the preservation of the Constitution of the United States. I think I have already expressed my opinions about the purview of natural science and my conviction that its methods are (when left to themselves) incompetent to answer, let alone grasp, issues of morality and ethics.

But I do not want any such controversy to distract us lizards from voting for the presidential candidate who will better bolster national security and who will more likely nominate originalist justices to the federal courts. These are far more important issues for me. I'll leave to the fundamentalist theist as well as the fundamentalist atheist the great compulsion to fight over the notion of a God Who sits outside the universe and directs it from on high as a monarch directs His realm, and to pit this against the notion of the Big Randomness.

I prefer to recognize Spirit immanent in Nature and forever undergoing completion in History, that is, continually explicated by the active choices we humans make*, especially we in America who are the freest citizens in the world. For I do believe in a teleology, a teleology that humans can promote if as individuals they remember what they are as a species: free minds.

------
*which means that God cannot be known adequately without understanding the self-aware actions of human beings. This is the notion portrayed by Doctrine of the Incarnation.

489 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:16pm

re: #457 Deaddog

Do me a favor - Check out Range Fuels. I went through 12 years of school with the guy that holds the patents. He's not young, but neither am I. I don't think he considers himself a scientist. He is however, on the leading edge (as is this company) in moving us to energy independence.

I'm not pimping here.

490 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:17pm

re: #471 Jimash

Skeletor is dead man walking.
Kirsten Powers will take his chair.


THt would be a huge upgrade , Colmes is a smarmy, smirking jerk,
I guess that I really don't like him.

491 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:18pm

re: #380 Jim in Virginia

Upding!
Can I offer you some nice gato tacos?

[Link: icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com...]

492 caliredst8r  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:39pm

re: #429 Celtic Templar


1 Lust
2 Gluttony
3 Greed
4 Sloth
5 Wrath
6 Envy
7 Pride

Al Sharpton's bio?

493 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:30:43pm

re: #433 jaunte

I love Sarah Palin, and ......I'm not a Creationist!

High five!

I love Sarah Palin, and .... what was the subject again?

High five!

494 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:31:21pm

re: #482 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Nice!

495 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:31:31pm

re: #476 Zimriel


LOL!

496 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:07pm

re: #490 opnion

Colmes is a smarmy, smirking jerk,

I've noticed that.

497 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:07pm

The only issue that could be trouble is "Bridge to Nowhere". I'd really like some unbiased info on just how much she supported that.

498 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:10pm

DeadDog- you've been very supportive of science and evolution in previous comments on threads about ID, creationism and evolution, and you've mentioned perhaps your other beliefs wouldn't be quite so in line with the rest of the Lizards, but I would ask you put the same scrutiny to politics that you've shown towards science, and apply that logic. Where the scientific method coupled with logic works, apply the Constitutional standard and logic in politics. Check your facts as scientists would check the data from their peers. Don't take things at face value.

So far I've come to this conclusion about Governor Palin- 1) she's upheld the law over her personal beliefs and 2) she's not subject to a religious test as per the Constitution, Article VI. So- I'm not sure why you want to buy into these other allegations about her- she's done nothing to suggest with her actions that she's going to be a poor executive, but all I'm asking is you'd fact check the politicos as you would fact check science data.

499 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:12pm

re: #288 piglet-u93
Thre: #472 Deaddog

Or maybe I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, since I do a heckuva lot more of this than just "read IEEE Spectrum?" And since I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, I don't have a need to resort to ad hominems to make my point. Works out nicely, don't you think?


Is your next argument "My IQ is higher than yours"?

500 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:41pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I rule out the coveting. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a mind crime. as long as there's no action to take your neighbor's wife or house you are free to think whatever you want. Thinking something is not immoral, acting is.

Entertaining such thoughts, even with no intention of acting on them, implies that one would like to act on them if there were not other considerations: laws against theft, an angry husband or father, the disapproval of one's neighbors. Also entertaining such thoughts makes it far easier to rationalize acting on them if an opportunity presents itself.

501 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:32:46pm

re: #465 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw c'mon, I thought it was funny. I was gonna link the original before, but thought the spoof was better.

And bruise? Just who are you trying to fool, lady. I've got a knot on my noggin the size of a baseball thanks to you. Meanie.
/

It's so creepy it's funny.

(Ice pack for the noggin?)

502 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:33:04pm

re: #471 Jimash

Skeletor is dead man walking.
Kirsten Powers will take his chair.

GOOD plan. She's from ... where?

503 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:33:06pm

re: #457 Deaddog

And the bad ol' money is there. Leftists always leave out research spending in the defense sphere. The contracts granted since 2001 in that arena are enormous. As you know defense spending becomes commercial pioneering over time. I'm not worried in the least. Could we do better? Certainly, I am all for more PBMR, BMD, large lift capability, and like research.

Our GDP percent spending on defense research is second to none, our GDP percent spending on science and research is probably second to none. (I don't trust charts that are not researched well as they tend to leave out sectors depending on author bias.) E.G. can you find a country that spends more on AG research than we do? What's missing isn't the research, it's the ability to build anything.

E.G. what would the reaction of your BDS blogfriends be if someone proposed a high speed coast to coast mag lev rail right of way?

504 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:33:07pm

re: #470 A.W.

Enjoy that last post of yours while it last, because you won't get another, me thinks.

/USS Stinky Beaumont, target phasers and photon torpedoes on post #470...

505 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:33:38pm

re: #459 MandyManners

MoveOn.org was not listed. Then again, they did list at least 50 private donors and about 7 government ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find that one of George Soros' foundations is involved. It sounds like something he would be interested in.

Here are a few from the top:

Champions

Atlantic Philanthropies
Helen Bader Foundation
Cisco Systems
Fannie Mae Foundation
Ford Foundation
William C. Graustein
Greater Milwaukee Foundation
William & Flora Hewlett Foundation
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
The John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation
Microsoft Corporation
Omidyar Foundation
Procter & Gamble Corporation
Rockefeller Brothers
Surdna Foundation
Woodcock Foundation

Top Allies

ABC/Capital Cities
ABN/Amro (LaSalle Bank)
Advanta Foundation
Amoco Foundation
Mary Reynolds Babcock Foundation
Badger Meter, Inc
Bank of America
Bank One

506 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:04pm

re: #289 flynmudd

OT:

Did anybody else read the article entitled "Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals" in Today in Investor's Business Daily? The Obamas are beyond radicals. Mark Levin was talking about it today on his program.

[Link: www.investors.com...]

That is frightening.
We'll still be in trouble even when 0bama loses, with this stuff going on.

507 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:06pm

re: #497 EIDE_Interface

It might help everyone's clarity if the phrase "Bridge to Nowhere" was replaced with "Bridge to the Airport." Whether it was worth building is another question, but it was planned to go somewhere.

508 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:26pm

Dabnabit. I missed it.

509 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:30pm

re: #500 David IV of Georgia

I agree with David.
Coveting makes you a jerk and leads to obsession. Best to lead your own life.

510 jwb7605[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:37pm
511 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:41pm

here we go again..no offence
Actually that brings up the 7 deadly sins, which I ascribe no religiosity to:

1 Lust ( without a little Lust and sex mankind would have died out a zillion years ago)
2 Gluttony ( Me and God are in agreement with this..)
3 Greed (agreed..God i think wants us to be successful..i want my kids to be..but not greedy..yeach)
4 Sloth ( So Government workers are bound to the depths of the 9th gate of hell? I knew it)
5 Wrath ( I have always thought the ultimate wrath was suicide..the total temper tantrum...also the lashing out we see )
6 Envy ( I envy guys that date brazilian super models..does that count?)
7 Pride ( boy..this is getting hard..I thought i was pretty glib on # 1..)
oh boy

512 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:34:50pm

re: #444 Proud to be American

I haven't had the time to read any recent comments, so sorry if this is already posted.

Sarah Palin is Winning the "Who Won the Week" poll at DailyKos

I see that the Kossies, basically, are in really bad moods. Kewl.

They are fussing over ebay, the meme that Senator McCain is like, you know, ooooold, Governor Palin is Machiavellian, a detailed explanation and consequent mocking of one of the slides used during Senator McCain's speech, Troopergate, Troopergate, Troopergate, McCain is up, but don't panic, an exact count of how many times Senator McCain said "I" during his speech - proving he is self-centered, a couple of those incredibly depressing, sappy Demo commercials, anger at the AP for giving Senator McCain's speech good marks, reminding themselves that there are more registered Demos than registered Republicans - so there, annoyance with Chris Matthews for saying that Senator McCain is "breaking with Bush (I call this the "he is not either - nya nya nya! meme), and mucho Palin angst.

513 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:03pm

re: #507 jaunte

It might help everyone's clarity if the phrase "Bridge to Nowhere" was replaced with "Bridge to the Airport." Whether it was worth building is another question, but it was planned to go somewhere.

Well all I keep reading is that while it was the "Bridge to Nowhere" Palin was the biggest champion until it was unpopular and then she flip-flopped. I need to know what really happened there - she claims to be a reformer.

514 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:09pm

re: #395 Sharmuta

Zogby's last poll also had McCain up, iirc. Not even mentioned on RCP. But- time will tell.

They might just not have it up yet.

BTW, I see that one of Zogby's clients (ick. frames.) is The Intelligent Design Network, NM. Not that that necessarily means anything at all. So is Microsoft. Just interesting.

515 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:18pm

re: #505 flynmudd

MoveOn.org was not listed. Then again, they did list at least 50 private donors and about 7 government ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find that one of George Soros' foundations is involved. It sounds like something he would be interested in.

Here are a few from the top:

Champions

Atlantic Philanthropies
Helen Bader Foundation
Cisco Systems
Fannie Mae Foundation
Ford Foundation
William C. Graustein
Greater Milwaukee Foundation
William & Flora Hewlett Foundation
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
The John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation
Microsoft Corporation
Omidyar Foundation
Procter & Gamble Corporation
Rockefeller Brothers
Surdna Foundation
Woodcock Foundation

Top Allies

ABC/Capital Cities
ABN/Amro (LaSalle Bank)
Advanta Foundation
Amoco Foundation
Mary Reynolds Babcock Foundation
Badger Meter, Inc
Bank of America
Bank One

Thanks! I'm gonna' print it out and do some digging now and later.

516 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:32pm

re: #502 jwb7605

GOOD plan. She's from ... where?

She's democratic operative of some kind, and she's reasonable, almost all the time. And easy on the eyes.

517 kuffar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:33pm

re: #383 jwb7605

My God...

518 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:40pm

re: #467 Wendya

She wasn't fired. Read the other article. She was asked for her resignation along with other officials. This is typical for some executives. The mayor can fire city employees without a reason as well, that one already went to court and failed.

519 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:35:54pm

re: #451 talon_262

Unfortunately, what you said is true. They would rather tar and feather her by claiming she pushed her "religious" views than consider the fact that she was just doing her JOB.

A teacher at the elementary school where her children did attend who has been quoted in the press, where she had been on the PTA has come out and categorically stated that she NEVER suggested any books be used or not used nor objected to courses taught or how they were taught.

There is NO question she has made some enemies. When you take on the "big boys" and start cleaning house and stepping on the status quo establishment you will leave a wake of disgruntled and revengeful persons.

520 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:36:00pm

RCP average shows +2.6 for Obama, down from +6.0 3 days ago.

521 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:36:15pm

re: #286 onepistoffyid

Dude

Here ya go....who should I blame this on?

[Link: time-blog.com...]

That would be "Dudette", by the way.

Check out these polls, though:

Rasmussen - check out the links from weeks past

Real Clear Politics - also shows results from other polls

Even though Zogby showed McCain ahead a few weeks ago, the other polls are all over the map. I haven't even listed the Gallup poll, which had McCain behind by 8 after the DCN bounce.

Things are evening out now, which is good - Republicans seem to be late bloomers, and come out on top in the end. I hope this is so with this election.

522 Moe Katz  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:36:18pm

re: #50 onepistoffyid

I believe the Creator is on a permanent lunch break.

He is much like Elvis: Rumored to be alive but having definitely left the building.

523 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:37:09pm

re: #505 flynmudd

MoveOn.org was not listed. Then again, they did list at least 50 private donors and about 7 government ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find that one of George Soros' foundations is involved. It sounds like something he would be interested in.

Here are a few from the top:

Champions

Atlantic Philanthropies
Helen Bader Foundation
Cisco Systems
Fannie Mae Foundation
Ford Foundation
William C. Graustein
Greater Milwaukee Foundation
William & Flora Hewlett Foundation
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
The John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation
Microsoft Corporation
Omidyar Foundation
Procter & Gamble Corporation
Rockefeller Brothers
Surdna Foundation
Woodcock Foundation

Top Allies

ABC/Capital Cities
ABN/Amro (LaSalle Bank)
Advanta Foundation
Amoco Foundation
Mary Reynolds Babcock Foundation
Badger Meter, Inc
Bank of America
Bank One

The donors to Champions sounds like a NPR donors.

524 ladycatnip  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:37:21pm

This whole thing is ridiculous. Since when did a belief in creation become a litmus test? These people really, really irritate me, and I happen to a) be a Christian, and b) believe in old earth/big bang/maybe some evolution/whatever.

Creationism has nothing to do with anything other than a person's privately held faith. Jesus' last words were to "Go and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you..." Mt. 28:19,20

Can't think of a single command by Jesus that says we're to shove creationism down people's throats.

525 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:37:42pm

re: #506 Kosh's Shadow

This is the type of thing that I wish the general populace would pay attention to, but they seem deaf, dumb and blind to what Obama is promoting. They just know that he makes them tingle. Which is creepy in itself.

526 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:37:47pm

Ocho Cinco gets the OK from NFL on new name

The legal name change of the wide receiver formerly known as Chad Johnson will be recognized by the league and the club, the Bengals announced Thursday in a statement.

The team will refer to him as Chad Ocho Cinco, and his new surname - Ocho Cinco - will be emblazoned on his game jersey in the team's season opener Sunday at Baltimore.

Ocho Cinco recently completed his legal name change in Florida and has the document to prove it

/what an ass

527 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:37:47pm

re: #448 David IV of Georgia

JEDP is nice but flawed and won't stand up. Wellhausen was bright, but wrong IMO.

I think JEDP is similar to Darwin in this case. Darwin doesn't stand up against modern genetics. But Darwin laid down the principles by which modern biology becomes a science rather than an exercise in classification. JEDP is far too simplistic on its own.

For my purpose of comparing Judaism and Christianity, I was using JEDP as a manual of style in the present Bible rather than as a theory on "the original bible".

528 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:38:04pm

re: #513 EIDE_Interface

Here's a summary:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

529 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:38:26pm

re: #524 ladycatnip

That is exactly what Governor Palin said, "No litmus test on this issue".

530 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:38:31pm

re: #501 MandyManners

(Ice pack for the noggin?)

Thanks, but I'm already using an Icehouse.

531 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:38:52pm
532 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:38:59pm

re: #528 jaunte

Here's a summary:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]



The project was canceled in 2007 by Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who originally supported it.[13]:

Not good.

533 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #515 MandyManners

Thank Ms. Manners. I'm sure you will be able to dig something up. If you want a complete list follow this link:

[Link: www.publicallies.org...]

534 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:39:36pm

re: #516 Jimash

She's democratic operative of some kind, and she's reasonable, almost all the time. And easy on the eyes.

buzzzzzzzz!

She's from .... wait for it .....

ALASKA

:)

I'm going to give you "a barely passing grade" on being completely correct on your incomplete answer, though.

535 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:39:42pm

re: #527 Zimriel

You'll notice I didn't dismiss "Source Theory" out of hand. This theory has had a lot of dead ends but has greatly aided our knowledge of the Bible and other ancient books.

536 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:39:45pm

re: #498 Sharmuta

DeadDog- you've been very supportive of science and evolution in previous comments on threads about ID, creationism and evolution, and you've mentioned perhaps your other beliefs wouldn't be quite so in line with the rest of the Lizards, but I would ask you put the same scrutiny to politics that you've shown towards science, and apply that logic. Where the scientific method coupled with logic works, apply the Constitutional standard and logic in politics. Check your facts as scientists would check the data from their peers. Don't take things at face value.

So far I've come to this conclusion about Governor Palin- 1) she's upheld the law over her personal beliefs and 2) she's not subject to a religious test as per the Constitution, Article VI. So- I'm not sure why you want to buy into these other allegations about her- she's done nothing to suggest with her actions that she's going to be a poor executive, but all I'm asking is you'd fact check the politicos as you would fact check science data.

Sharmuta, this excellent advice. But beyond upholding the law all executives have their own agenda, the programs they will support, the focus they will give. If in fact the two highest officials in the land want to "teach the controversy," then that bodes poorly for trying to move ahead in the life sciences. If we have a Chief Executive McCain who derides a well-thought-out study of the genetics of animal release into the wild for political points (citations above), then that doesn't bode well for a respect for scientific opinion.

Bush really have done an execrable job of advancing science. We are down in funding. We are losing out to other governments that are pushing their agendas hard. I don't think the Democrats are pro-science. I would be completely satisfied with neutral at this point. I'm just afraid that what I'm seeing is far from neutral.

I of course do not think any of the candidates for President would actively abrogate the Constitution. But come on, that's not the same as *policy.* I would ask you to look at the links, biased or not, that I've posted, and ask yourself whether there is a troubling trend in the statements of the candidates, their actions (not the spin).

537 swamprat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:39:45pm

The world is ending

that link will take you to the daily kos.....scroll down to the poll that asks "who won the week?.....sara did. Ahead of even the hurricane workers..... This is serious, like dogs and cats living together, 666, remodeling contractors coming in on budget, or as strange as politicians voting to reduce their own pay! I mean weird!

538 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:40:01pm

re: #531 ploome hineni

411 Killgore Trout

coveting creates bad karma

instead of looking for happiness with what you have, coveting burns

and the habit of coveting breeds resentment

coveting no good

That's a good way of detaching it from religious inference ... Great statement.

539 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:40:31pm

re: #513 EIDE_Interface

Well all I keep reading is that while it was the "Bridge to Nowhere" Palin was the biggest champion until it was unpopular and then she flip-flopped. I need to know what really happened there - she claims to be a reformer.

There have been several links in the past few days that covered that.
It basically comes down to she was for federal funding for local projects the more she learned about the bridge the less she liked it.

540 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:40:40pm

The other thing to realize is that in Alaska Palin has not only an unrepenitent leftist press against her (Anchorage Daily news is a McClatchy paper and she defeated their man Tony,) and she has Republicans out for her hide. (Lydia Green and Lisa Murkowski have the long knives out for her.)

541 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:00pm

re: #491 goddessoftheclassroom
Can you climb up on the piano and give us a song?
(I know it isn't your style, but how about Barracuda?)

Good news- I got a nice promotion at work. Completely unexpected.

542 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:00pm
543 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:09pm

re: #530 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks, but I'm already using an Icehouse.

Icehouse...ugghh! Gimme a Red Stripe...

544 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:11pm

We are the train set in God's basement. He went upstairs to grab a beer 14 billion years ago and we haven't seen him since.

545 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:16pm

re: #530 Slumbering Behemoth


I've got just the thing for Sarah Palin. Moose Drool.

546 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:22pm

The Sarah Palin bashing is outrageous. Look for a piece some time next week that she is the anti Christ & they have the DNA to prove it.
The Dems & the MSM know that she has changed the dynamic & is McCains best hope to win. They are prepared to destroy her & her family.

547 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:32pm

re: #488 ContraJihadi

Hello, my friend. The Uncarved Block, indeed.

So long as our elected officials honor their oath to uphold the Constitution, I think their religious beliefs are their own business. They can't foist it upon the public without breaking that oath, and that oath is my primary concern. So far, with the veto on banning benefits for domestic partners, Governor Palin has shown that she indeed takes her oaths seriously. Based on that, I feel confident she would continue to do so in the future.

548 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:37pm

re: #455 JustMyView

OT: Thought LGFers might be interested in this very touching WaPo column by Robert Novak, who has the same kind of brain cancer that Ted Kennedy has.

Very touching. It's heartening to read. I see he had surgery and treatment at Duke, even though he's a U of Md fan. :D

As a cancer survivor, I also owe Duke my life. On my way to the doctor to hear about treatment post surgery, I heard of a new medication out of Duke that worked for my kind of cancer, which meant radiation therapy but no chemo. When I got to the doctor's office, he told me that they had a new treatment - the one I'd just heard about on NPR.

549 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:44pm

re: #481 EIDE_Interface

Sarah Palin will implode, just wait.

/KosKiddie about to implode

Is this?

1. Wishful thinking
2. Extreme self loathing and doubt?
3. or saying you are a kos fan?

Those were my three takes.

550 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:41:59pm

re: #539 kcladderman

There have been several links in the past few days that covered that.
It basically comes down to she was for federal funding for local projects the more she learned about the bridge the less she liked it.

That sounds kinda squishy to me. We wouldn't let a Democrat get away with that. Why not hold her to the fire on this?

551 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:42:32pm

re: #549 hazzyday

Is this?

1. Wishful thinking
2. Extreme self loathing and doubt?
3. or saying you are a kos fan?

Those were my three takes.

That's what I was reading on Kos site today.

552 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:42:43pm

re: #398 Deaddog

Same person, Lynn. Sorry if my support of science in the political realm seems askance with my support of science in the, er, scientific realm. It seems consistent to me. Shrug.

No, it's not that. It's more that your support of science in the political realm seems to smack of the same sort of fanaticism that you've been decrying in your support of science in the scientific realm. You kind of seem blinded by ideological arguments (if Palin believes X her status as VP will obstruct the development of science). There are a few specific areas (e.g. stem cell research) where I can agree that might very well be the case. But overall, I don't see that you've connected those dots. And I'm really not sure you're getting your information from sources that are all that reliable.

553 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:42:51pm
554 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:43:02pm

re: #533 flynmudd

Thank Ms. Manners. I'm sure you will be able to dig something up. If you want a complete list follow this link:

[Link: www.publicallies.org...]

The Nazis and Communists tapped into youth, too.

555 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:43:25pm

So is Alan Colmes gone?

556 LotharBot  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:43:50pm

re: #43 Purple Prose

You have to wonder why this issue of such life-or-death importance to some...something else driving people who believe that the Bible has to be taken absolutely literally

Speaking as someone who's seen pretty much every side of this (strong Christian, long-time internet debater, M.S. in evolutionary genetics) here are a few major issues:

1) lack of RELIGIOUS education. A lot of Christians, especially creationists, have only read small bits of the Bible -- the first dozen pages, 2 or 3 dozen isolated stories from the Old Testament, and a bunch of stories about Jesus. They have no idea how the stories connect or what their significance is (historically or theologically), so they have no way to evaluate whether or not a story is meant to be literal. So they go with the most naive interpretation possible and hold to it.

2) lack of SCIENCE education. People don't understand things like evidence, refinement of theories, tests and falsifiability, or that "evolution" is a broad term describing something mostly true that we're constantly discovering new details about and revising. This is not just true of Christians, but people in general, including many teachers -- the fundies aren't going to learn if nobody can competently teach them!

3) SECULAR FUNDAMENTALISTS who make themselves part of the problem. There are atheists, agnostics, and others who act as their own brand of fundies, latching on to evolution as a means to attack Christians and attacking religion on every front. They give evolution religious significance, treating it like a "wedge issue", which leads Christians to teach their children to stay away from evolution.

re: #107 rightymouse

My Dad is a Biblical translation consultant... Should Genesis be taken literally? That would not be wise, given what we know

I'd be curious to hear your dad's take on it.

Personally, I think the key to understanding Genesis is understanding the myths of the surrounding cultures, and then looking at what Genesis says is different. The Jews were aware of other myths (from places they'd lived, people who lived in Israel, merchants and travelers, etc.), so what was the author of Genesis (whether God, Moses, or some later scribe) trying to tell the people was different about YHVH than about others?

557 JHW  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:43:53pm

re: #474 Nancy

IIRC you're an Alaskan? Interestingly, I just saw recently where wolves are moving back in Washington and Oregon. Lots of cougars already here. A book recommendation for any interested, a well-known Canadian author writes about cougars on Vancouver Island. They've killed several people and snatched kids right out of school-yards. Joe Garner
Never a Time to Trust

558 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:16pm
559 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:37pm

I really wonder at all the hatred here towards any belief at all in the creation...

To believe that God created the Universe, and ultimately the Earth and us, does not require one to completely disbelieve in evolution. Evolution can't be denied as a mechanism. But something got it all STARTED. I believe that it was God.

Now, granted, I do agree that people who deny any validity of evolution are nutjobs, I also believe that those who call themselves "Christian" who deny that God had anything at all to do with any of this are "Christians in name only".

560 LotharBot  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:41pm

re: #201 Deaddog

I think that it actually says something about leadership to (a) advocate censorship (true as far as anyone can tell) and (b) advocate 'teaching the [non-existent] controversy,"

(a) sound and fury, but no information. "As far as anyone can tell", she advocated what exactly? Removing some books? Moving them to a different section of the library? Requiring parental permission to check out certain materials? What books were they, anyway, and do you have a CREDIBLE source for that? Did she "advocate" it, or merely note that a parent had made a complaint?

(b) isn't at all what she said. She said that debate is healthy, and that schools shouldn't be afraid to let the kids argue. She didn't ask teachers to "teach the controversy" or to teach creationism or ID, she just said that there's nothing wrong with healthy debate.

re: #274 Charles

That's because the whole concept of "intelligent design" is fraudulent.

"Intelligent Design", in Dembski's formulation, has a LOT of potential for use in areas outside of origins (many criminal investigations are about detecting marks of an intelligent agent), though his ideas are still fairly rough. But he and the rest of the DI crowd insist on taking a theory that hasn't been tested or refined, and applying it to the very-hard problem of origins. They insist on using what could otherwise be a promising idea, and waste their effort on rehashed religious crap

P.S. Charles, this post plus the last one, not counting this PS, showed 5 characters remaining, but was "too long to post". Had to split it. Dunno why the count wasn't matching up...

561 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:55pm

re: #550 EIDE_Interface

You may have missed this: "In 2005, Congress stripped the specific earmark allocation of federal funds for the two bridges, without changing the amount of money allocated for use by Alaska."
The Federal money was available for Alaska, but not tied to the bridge. So she chose to use it on other infrastructure projects. I'm not going to insist that a single governor reject all earmarked money for her state before she can get my vote as VP.

562 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:55pm

re: #532 EIDE_Interface


The project was canceled in 2007 by Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who originally supported it.[13]:

Not good.

Trusting Wikipedia on touchy and divisive issues such as politics or religion is akin to trusting the 5-year-old neighbor boy's views on genetics or stock trading....not a good idea!

Give some more reliable sources, please...

563 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:44:58pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Then we'll have to disagree. Coveting is thought, there's no harm in thinking something. If the commandment had stated "thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's house or wife" I'd agree. Envy is a thought and an emotion; they don't harm anyone.

It's ironic that for once I agree with Jimmy Carter on something.

564 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:02pm

re: #511 HoosierHoops

here we go again..no offence
Actually that brings up the 7 deadly sins, which I ascribe no religiosity to:

1 Lust ( without a little Lust and sex mankind would have died out a zillion years ago)
2 Gluttony ( Me and God are in agreement with this..)
3 Greed (agreed..God i think wants us to be successful..i want my kids to be..but not greedy..yeach)
4 Sloth ( So Government workers are bound to the depths of the 9th gate of hell? I knew it)
5 Wrath ( I have always thought the ultimate wrath was suicide..the total temper tantrum...also the lashing out we see )
6 Envy ( I envy guys that date brazilian super models..does that count?)
7 Pride ( boy..this is getting hard..I thought i was pretty glib on # 1..)
oh boy

I suppose I should look in Wikipedia, but I am slothful. Did the notion of the Seven Deadly Sins originate in Christian thinking, or does it go back to the Romans, the Stoics perhaps?

As I understand the doctrine, conjugation within marriage with the purpose of begetting a child is not lust per se, because the act is performed with a rational purpose in mind, instead of being merely the result of a blind impulse. But, of course, for most people the impulse comes first; the morality comes when they make a decision about the result. Thus Bristol may have been caught up in lust, but by accepting marriage and agreeing the bring the baby to term, she has negated sin.

Similar observations about the other sins: e.g. overweening self-regard is just crazy, but without some notion of self-worth, we would be nothing but slaves. Again, the Devil is in the details and in the degree; and perhaps this notion of the Seven Deadly Sins needs to be subsumed under Aristotles's notion of the Golden Mean.

565 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:14pm
566 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:16pm

re: #555 EIDE_Interface

So is Alan Colmes gone?

Nope, at least not yet.

567 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:17pm

re: #374 rockman

Believe it or not, sometimes I cross the polars and shove in the quarter wave plate ans spin the stage until I blow my mind. know what I'm sayin?

Yeah cool! I did that once in 1982 and almost became a creationist!

568 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:22pm

re: #539 kcladderman

There have been several links in the past few days that covered that.
It basically comes down to she was for federal funding for local projects the more she learned about the bridge the less she liked it.

My take was that she said "fine, whatever" when the funding was supposed to be at 100%. She didn't particularly want the bridge, but why turn down a "free bridge"?
When the Senate 'reneged' and changed that to 33%, then she "flip flopped".

I mightwould have reacted the same way.

569 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:36pm

re: #554 MandyManners

I remember that too from the history books. They target these people. It's sickening really. George Soros' idea to ruin America by creating chaos.

570 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:45:53pm

re: #562 talon_262

That was actually me linking to Wiki.

571 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:46:18pm

re: #562 talon_262

Trusting Wikipedia on touchy and divisive issues such as politics or religion is akin to trusting the 5-year-old neighbor boy's views on genetics or stock trading....not a good idea!

Give some more reliable sources, please...

Anyways, she's going to be asked about it during the debate at least. She better have a solid answer.

572 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:46:28pm

re: #561 jaunte

You may have missed this: "In 2005, Congress stripped the specific earmark allocation of federal funds for the two bridges, without changing the amount of money allocated for use by Alaska."
The Federal money was available for Alaska, but not tied to the bridge. So she chose to use it on other infrastructure projects. I'm not going to insist that a single governor reject all earmarked money for her state before she can get my vote as VP.

Some people vote b/c a politician can get earmarks for their state

/not me

573 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:46:31pm

re: #541 Jim in Virginia

Can you climb up on the piano and give us a song?
(I know it isn't your style, but how about Barracuda?)

Good news- I got a nice promotion at work. Completely unexpected.

CONGRATULATIONS!

As for the song, only if you'll join me...

574 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:46:53pm

re: #558 ploome hineni

Sean was unloading on him pretty good ( and he's not my fave either )
Looked like a hat handing moment, and Kirsten was especially agreeable about Gov. Palin.
I can see your point tho.

575 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:47:03pm

re: #532 EIDE_Interface


The project was canceled in 2007 by Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who originally supported it.[13]:

Not good.

What's not good? The governor is responsible for the budget, and the state budget couldn't support their part of the bridge funding after it was cut, executive decision made. No flip flop.

576 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:47:33pm

re: #532 EIDE_Interface


The project was canceled in 2007 by Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who originally supported it.[13]:

Not good.

What's the problem here? The bridge was a colossal waste of money considering the number of vehicles using it on a daily bases. The reallocated money would be better spent.

She changed her mind? OH Lord NO! There are situations where better arguments, new data, or changing situations demand a mind change. Does it make more sense to keep going with a bad plan simply so you aren't perceived as a "mind changer".

There is a big difference between someone that changes their mind in the light of new evidence and someone that changes it based upon the audience.

577 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:47:47pm

I've heard the claim that Palin turned down more earmarks then other governors - is that true? I mean it's nice she took on the Murkowski machine, but I want evidence of real reform or the attempt.

578 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:23pm

re: #576 Outrider

What's the problem here? The bridge was a colossal waste of money considering the number of vehicles using it on a daily bases. The reallocated money would be better spent.

She changed her mind? OH Lord NO! There are situations where better arguments, new data, or changing situations demand a mind change. Does it make more sense to keep going with a bad plan simply so you aren't perceived as a "mind changer".

There is a big difference between someone that changes their mind in the light of new evidence and someone that changes it based upon the audience.

Yet when a Democrat says the same thing - we say flip-flopper or waffler. I just want to be fair.

579 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:36pm

re: #555 EIDE_Interface

So is Alan Colmes gone?

I'm just glad Hannity was in Saint Louis and Skeletor the Pig was in NYC. Otherwise, I think Hannity might have socked him. I saw a big, angry Irishman and a skinny guy looking white as a sheet there at the end. OK, he always looks white as a sheet. Whiter than a sheet.

580 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:46pm

re: #553 ploome hineni

I do not like Kirsten Pawers at all

she reminds me of Stepford woman

she is brittle and her talking points hypnotic and predictable

Yet another reason that she's the perfect Colmes replacement.
You didn't rebut the "easy on the eyes" part, though.

581 Colonel Panik  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:50pm

re: #43 Purple Prose

And once you let in that demon, all hell will break loose. It will be fornication and anarchy in the home and the streets.

Sounds like San Franfreakshow

582 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:55pm

re: #550 EIDE_Interface

That sounds kinda squishy to me. We wouldn't let a Democrat get away with that. Why not hold her to the fire on this?

Well if I remember right she was not actually the Gov. when she was suppose to be all for this Bridge To Nowhere.

583 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:48:58pm

re: #511 HoosierHoops

What were you saying about Brazilian super models?

584 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:49:08pm

re: #552 Lynn B.

No, it's not that. It's more that your support of science in the political realm seems to smack of the same sort of fanaticism that you've been decrying in your support of science in the scientific realm. You kind of seem blinded by ideological arguments (if Palin believes X her status as VP will obstruct the development of science). There are a few specific areas (e.g. stem cell research) where I can agree that might very well be the case. But overall, I don't see that you've connected those dots. And I'm really not sure you're getting your information from sources that are all that reliable.

That's a reasonable point, Lynn. I don't think scientists should be listened to on anything but ... science. Politicians have to balance a huge variety of concerns. But as I've said before, we're coming out of a period where scientific advice was actively muzzled at various levels in the government. This was unprecedented. The starving of the American scientific infrastructure (failing to even keep pace with inflation) is also sort of unprecedented.

I want to see candidates who are actively promoting science. Neither side is doing that. There isn't a technocrat in the whole bunch. But since I believe this is a critical issue, I'm left to make a binary choice based on the few indicators we have. Yes, yes, there are other factors to that binary choice. But I'm choosing to talk about this one. You can claim it doesn't matter (you're wrong), or you can put your fingers in your ears and go "nyah, nyah, nyah" at me (not you, Lynn), but that doesn't make the problem go away.

585 Russkilitlover  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:49:33pm

re: #385 Thanos

But on the other hand spending on defense science is up, spending on energy research is up. Spending on your favored science might be down.

I think you nailed it. DD sounds like sore loser, whose project couldn't pass fiscal muster.

586 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:49:33pm

re: #513 EIDE_Interface

The bridge to No where was earmarked BEFORE she became Governor before she even decided to run for governor.

In her campaign for Governor, she did say she supported expanding Alaskan infrastructure, which happened to include the bridge.

When costs for the bridge were coming to double what had been earmarked she issued a statement towards the end of the campaign --before she was even elected, that she would be looking at other alternatives.

Alaska got the earmark for infrastructure, when she Governor she used it elsewhere --not on the bridge. The earmark was already there before she even ran for governor.

Again, doing her job. Once she took office she decided that money --already earmarked for Alaska before her term --would be better spend on other things than ONE very expensive bridge serve 50 people.

587 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:49:34pm

BTW, I don't like Sean Hannity either. His populism makes me sick.

588 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:49:43pm

re: #576 Outrider

What's the problem here? The bridge was a colossal waste of money considering the number of vehicles using it on a daily bases. The reallocated money would be better spent.

She changed her mind? OH Lord NO! There are situations where better arguments, new data, or changing situations demand a mind change. Does it make more sense to keep going with a bad plan simply so you aren't perceived as a "mind changer".

There is a big difference between someone that changes their mind in the light of new evidence and someone that changes it based upon the audience.


I agree. She is being held to an impossibly high standard.

589 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:19pm

re: #578 EIDE_Interface

The Big Dig in Boston cost $14.6 billion. That would buy a few bridges.

590 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:21pm

re: #565 ploome hineni

radiation and no chemo?

which cancer?

Breast cancer. My cancer was hormonally connected, and the Duke treatment was for that particular type.

591 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:24pm

re: #586 Nancy

The bridge to No where was earmarked BEFORE she became Governor before she even decided to run for governor.

In her campaign for Governor, she did say she supported expanding Alaskan infrastructure, which happened to include the bridge.

When costs for the bridge were coming to double what had been earmarked she issued a statement towards the end of the campaign --before she was even elected, that she would be looking at other alternatives.

Alaska got the earmark for infrastructure, when she Governor she used it elsewhere --not on the bridge. The earmark was already there before she even ran for governor.

Again, doing her job. Once she took office she decided that money --already earmarked for Alaska before her term --would be better spend on other things than ONE very expensive bridge serve 50 people.

But a REAL reformer would have sent the money back to DC!
/idealist

592 ladycatnip  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:25pm

#529 Jimash

re: #524 ladycatnip

That is exactly what Governor Palin said, "No litmus test on this issue".

Then where are these creationist groups coming from and just who are they really? I've never heard of any of these "groups"; it was here at LGF I found out about the DI website and their connections to islamic creationists. Have attended a mainline church for most of my life and have never heard these organizations mentioned from the pulpit, or preaching that we have to be young earth people.

They're giving normal Christians a bad rap.

593 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:30pm

re: #550 EIDE_Interface

That sounds kinda squishy to me. We wouldn't let a Democrat get away with that. Why not hold her to the fire on this?

Hold her feet to the fire for what? The pounding given Obama on this issue of "flip-flop" is his mind changes depending upon the audience-not facts.

594 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:50:32pm

re: #542 ploome hineni

I agree

Obama is a test....if someone like Obama can get this far on nothing

next time the assault will be better

and Obama will be a 'player' for the next 30 yrs

/feh

i don't think he will be a big player. all that has been hidden from the public abt. him , will come out, when he loses badly, which he will.
he will not be held in high regard.
he is a wake up call for us to be vigilant.

595 coquimbojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:01pm

re: #438 David IV of Georgia

I think it is funny that the people that freak out about Bush's supposed "police state" don't say anything about this statement of BHO.

Glenn Beck commented extensively today about the group the Obama is affiliated with that is the model for his civilian army of volunteers. Apparently it is a training ground for community agitators/organizers. He started the Chicago branch in 1992. it is called United Allies. I can't find a website, but it sounds pretty heinous. There was an expose in Investors Business Daily recently I can't seem to find either....

596 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:19pm

re: #382 Naso Tang

Do you think you are sneaking this one by Charles, and he doesn't notice?

They're doing what the Disco Institute does in successive court cases; seeing how far to the edge of permissability they can tread before their toes get amputated.

597 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:23pm

One thing I notice since the Olympics is a broader Americanism going around. I saw Sen. McCain make an appeal to it. But I have no problem with an African American wanting to make a historic vote for Sen. Obama based on culture or race. If I was young I might have done the same. As a country we can tolerate that easily. I only vote issues and leadership now.

One thing though while I respect and admire Oprah, I don't think she should succumb to a whispering campaign from Sen. Obama to not interview Gov Palin. I do question her intergrity under pressure when Gov. Palin is such a big news item and people want to know about her. Of course they would want Oprah to interview her and talk to Gov. Palin about life.

Her story does not stop at Sen. Obama.

598 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:38pm

re: #571 EIDE_Interface

Anyways, she's going to be asked about it during the debate at least. She better have a solid answer.

Well maybe you should call her and tell her that . She probably hasn't thought of it .

599 Colonel Panik  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:47pm

re: #595 coquimbojoe

Glenn Beck commented extensively today about the group the Obama is affiliated with that is the model for his civilian army of volunteers. Apparently it is a training ground for community agitators/organizers. He started the Chicago branch in 1992. it is called United Allies. I can't find a website, but it sounds pretty heinous. There was an expose in Investors Business Daily recently I can't seem to find either....

It was posted earlier. Here it is.

600 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:51:51pm

re: #578 EIDE_Interface

Yet when a Democrat says the same thing - we say flip-flopper or waffler. I just want to be fair.

There is a difference between fair and slap bending over backwards and doing the twist.

See previous post

601 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:05pm

re: #536 Deaddog

We obviously have an issue with science education in this country. I've advocated in the last two nights for Lizards to be sure to also volunteer their time to McCan/Palin- but I went further on the previous thread.

In volunteering time, those of us who would like to improve scientific understanding in the Republican party would have an excellent opportunity to make contacts with other Republicans. It's not necessary to "convert" them to evolution if they want to be more creationist- it's about understanding that the party is political, not religious, and that ID is not science. I feel that once more people understand that ID is harmful to our children's education, it will receive less support. We have an opportunity here to work against pseudo-science, and real conversations with real people in the party could go a long way.

Now- I will take my chances with McCain/Palin because overall I think they're better for this country. 0bama's tax policies will leave less money for science. But in the meantime- we can work to debunk ID to the point where neither political party will give the notion any quarter. We wont be able to do that if our country isn't safe, secure, free and prosperous.

602 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:08pm

re: #533 flynmudd

Thank Ms. Manners. I'm sure you will be able to dig something up. If you want a complete list follow this link:

[Link: www.publicallies.org...]

Barack Obama was a member of the founding board of Public Allies. Michelle was the founding Executive Director of Public Allies Chicago from Spring, 1993 until Fall, 1996, and served on our national board of directors from 1997 until 2001. Barack was no longer on the board of Public Allies when Michelle was hired. Before joining Public Allies, she was an attorney at the law firm of Sidley & Austin and Deputy Director of Community Development for the City of Chicago.

603 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:08pm

re: #591 EIDE_Interface

Maybe she used it to fill a few pot holes.


/Obscure herb joke.

604 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:20pm

re: #547 Sharmuta

Hello, my friend. The Uncarved Block, indeed.

So long as our elected officials honor their oath to uphold the Constitution, I think their religious beliefs are their own business. They can't foist it upon the public without breaking that oath, and that oath is my primary concern. So far, with the veto on banning benefits for domestic partners, Governor Palin has shown that she indeed takes her oaths seriously. Based on that, I feel confident she would continue to do so in the future.

Yes, I think she is one of those people with Christian convictions who nevertheless understands that we are citizens of a constitutional republic, not a theocracy.

(Although I confess I do not know the details of the the domestic partners law in Alaska and whether the Alaska constitution warrant it or not. But, indulging in my own most deadly sin, sloth, I'll forgo research and assume that she found that the domestic partner bill before her did not violate the state constitution.)

605 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:24pm

re: #587 EIDE_Interface

BTW, I don't like Sean Hannity either. His populism makes me sick.

I like him and O'Reilly, though I don't always agree with them or their methods.

I think it's mainly because they're both big Irishmen who remind me of some of my family members. :D

606 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:24pm

BTW - it's interesting that in a year that we were threatened with an Obama presidency, Palin arrived to save the day. Makes an atheist like me wonder...

607 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:36pm

re: #551 EIDE_Interface

That's what I was reading on Kos site today.

Ah thanks. My pre judgement clouded my perceptions there.

608 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:52:47pm

re: #330 jwb7605

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

You're bragging about that threesome you had the other night, aren't you?
/s

609 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:23pm

I don't like Mark Levin or Michael Savage, they both give conservatives a nasty reputation.

610 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:27pm

re: #574 Jimash

Sean was unloading on him pretty good ( and he's not my fave either )
Looked like a hat handing moment, and Kirsten was especially agreeable about Gov. Palin.
I can see your point tho.

Somebody appears to be doing an "outing" segment.
No way to cover up Skeletor would be my take.
Since momentum is swinging, unloading Colmes would make Fox look like a real professional journalistic organization, following Maverick's "clean up the corruption" theme.
The article I read by Kirsten Powers happened before the "scandals".
It was a positive article, with a couple of valid points of criticism -- not on ethics or policy, just an area of disagreement.

611 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:39pm

conjugation within marriage with the purpose of begetting a child is not lust per se, because the act is performed with a rational purpose in mind, instead of being merely the result of a blind impulse...
I'm positive that in the early times with everybody running around half naked that the first thing that came to mind was a ' rational purpose of mind'
actually when i was 17 that was the first thing that came to mind..
if 'begetting a child is not lust per se' then how the hell did we end up with 5 kids?
/ i'm just playing with ya..almost 2 bottles of wine and a little silly..

612 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:40pm

Forgot my ///// on the last post

613 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:46pm

re: #599 Colonel Panik

Here is the direct site to Public Allies: [Link: www.publicallies.org...]

614 seekeroftruth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:53:49pm

re: #602 MandyManners

Who besides, the taxpayers, fund Public Allies?

615 Dan G.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:54:02pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

Do you suggest that we ignore the enemy at home in favor of focusing on the enemy abroad?

616 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:55:31pm

re: #560 LotharBot

She said that debate is healthy, and that schools shouldn't be afraid to let the kids argue. She didn't ask teachers to "teach the controversy" or to teach creationism or ID, she just said that there's nothing wrong with healthy debate.

Debate is healthy ... but we're not teaching the controversy. Right.

Have you ever taught? You may have kids, so you probably know what their school day is like. They barely have time to learn even the most basic of facts, let alone get into deep and meaningful arguments about a subject where on the one hand there is only evidence and fact on one side (evolution) and the other there is just nothing (Creationism / ID).

As others have said, this would be like having a "healthy debate" on whether the Earth is flat, or whether Astrology should be used to chart our lives. It is not even remotely a useful use of the few hours in the day when we try to teach the next generation enough so that one day some them can go to graduate school or engineering school (which have been filled largely with foreign nationals so long that we don't even recognize how odd it is anymore).

617 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:55:40pm

re: #615 Dan G.

Do you suggest that we ignore the enemy at home in favor of focusing on the enemy abroad?

In particular reason we are not capable of multi-tasking?

618 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:55:55pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Yes, my desires are my own. As long as there's no action, there's no foul. I don't think a just god would punish people for very human acts such as envy as long as there's no action. It's a thought crime.

Evwen in the Ten Commandments, it is explained that one should worship no Gods before Jehovah because he is a jealous God.

It also says that one should honor one's father and mother, so one's days on the earth may be long. In other words, piss them off too badly and they'll kill you.

619 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:16pm

re: #595 coquimbojoe

See No. flynmudd's No. 533 and my No. 602.

620 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:16pm
621 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:21pm

re: #604 ContraJihadi

What I read was her legal adviser told her it was unconstitutional, thus the veto. Good for her to not waste taxpayer dollars in court to fight for a law that would have been overturned anyways.

622 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:23pm

re: #557 JHW

IIRC you're an Alaskan? Interestingly, I just saw recently where wolves are moving back in Washington and Oregon. Lots of cougars already here. A book recommendation for any interested, a well-known Canadian author writes about cougars on Vancouver Island. They've killed several people and snatched kids right out of school-yards. Joe Garner
Never a Time to Trust

I used to drive from Fairbanks to Anchorage about every third weekend or so since they didn't have Sushi in Fairbanks at the time (Club Tokyo served sashimi, but it wasn't the best) It's a long drive, 360 miles or so, and it was usual to pull over to whizz by the side of the road since there really weren't facilities on the Parks hiway at the time. One time I looked down while doing that, saw bear scat. Looked up, saw claw marks on the tree nearest the road very high up. Looked down, and saw brush moving and heard crackling. I jumped in the car in record time, and made it a point thereafter to urinate off the middle of the bridge at Hurricane Gulch.

623 Colonel Panik  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:24pm

re: #609 EIDE_Interface

I don't like Mark Levin or Michael Savage, they both give conservatives a nasty reputation.

"Shut up you big dope!"

/sarc

When you have lived in SF as long as Savage has, I think derangement can set in. He is right on as far as liberalism being a mental disorder. (I'm talking the modern "politically correct" form of liberalism, not classical liberalism.)

624 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:28pm

486: "Is morality defined by acts or values?"

Since you said "defined by" I have to use a philosophical understanding of "morality" in my answer, and I have to say "values".

However one's actions will, over time, make it easier to hold certain values and harder to hold certain others. And failure to act shows that one's values in that regard are hollow (as Saint James points out in a letter somewhere). :^)

625 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:29pm

re: #587 EIDE_Interface

BTW, I don't like Sean Hannity either. His populism makes me sick.

You see, that's the dirty little secret. Skeletor is actually going to replace Hannity, and let Kirsten Powers be the straight man. Straight out of McCain's surprise choice playbook.

Karl Rove sent me that on my secret decoder ring. Keep it quiet.
/

626 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:32pm

re: #611 HoosierHoops

2 bottles of wine? drink a lot of water before you turn in tonight.

627 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:42pm

re: #511 HoosierHoops

1 Lust ( without a little Lust and sex mankind would have died out a zillion years ago)

7 Pride ( boy..this is getting hard..I thought i was pretty glib on # 1..)
oh boy

If you desire another but you confine your thoughts to acting on them only within marriage it is usually not considered the sin of lust by most Christians.

The sin of pride is usually confined to thinking or feeling you are better than other people, that somehow you can treat them with disdain and uncaring. Being proud of your son, or football team or whatever—using "proud" as a synonym for "respect"—is not a sin, but an ambiguity of the English language.

628 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:56:48pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

You are totally guilty of sexism. You are assuming she was picked because she was a woman, even though she was fricking AWESOME for the base, with the bonus of an incredible record and understanding of energy policy.

I knew about her months ago, but I never dreamed I'd get lucky enough to have her as the choice. When I woke up and saw it was she, I was dumbstruck - and very, very happy.

629 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:23pm

re: #625 jwb7605

You see, that's the dirty little secret. Skeletor is actually going to replace Hannity, and let Kirsten Powers be the straight man. Straight out of McCain's surprise choice playbook.

Karl Rove sent me that on my secret decoder ring. Keep it quiet.
/

I could life with Kristen Powers. So to speak.

630 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:34pm

re: #606 EIDE_Interface

BTW - it's interesting that in a year that we were threatened with an Obama presidency, Palin arrived to save the day. Makes an atheist like me wonder...


an intervention of God? Perhaps...

could just be "the All-American vs. the Anti-American"...

631 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:35pm

PIMF - live.

632 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:35pm

Wayne Allyn Root's Million-Dollar Challenge
The Libertarian VP candidate wants Barack Obama to release his grades
Root: That's the era. I mean, when I went to Columbia, the black kids were all at like tables going "Black Power!" We used to walk by and go, "What the hell are they talking about." And they didn't associate with us and we didn't associate with them. So if you track down a couple of black students, they'll probably know him. But nobody white's ever heard of this guy. It's quite amazing. Nobody remembers him. They don't remember him sitting in class.

Welch: Black power in '83?

Root: Ha ha. That's Columbia. Colubmia's radical, always was. There was gay power over here, and pot power over here, and black power over there, and Hispanic power over here, and feminism.

Welch: And what was your power?

Root: Oh I was the bookie guy, don't worry about it.... But here's the story that I think the press should be digging up, I really mean this, about Barack Obama. When George Bush annoyed everyone the first thing they went to was how dumb he was, and they said how bad he did in Yale, and blah blah blah, he got a C average. Then they found his C average was better than Al Gore's average, and it was better than John Kerry's average!

Cavanaugh: And then you stopped hearing the story.

Root: Right. But the point is all three of them had C averages. I had a B-plus, A-minus average at Columbia University.

Welch: Wait, you're bragging on your GPA?

Root: No, no I'm not, because here's the moral to the story.... I had a B-plus, A-minus average at Columbia University, in four years. When I graduated, I took the LSATs and I did well. I didn't do great, I did well; B-plus, A-minus average. My counselor at Columbia said don't even bother applying to Harvard Law School, because you can get into any law school in the country with your record, except Columbia, Harvard, Stanford, Princeton [Editor's Note: Princeton doesn't have a law school]. Except for the very top, you can get in anywhere, but don't even try those, because your grades don't cut it.

Well, everyone says how bright Barack is, but Barack won't release his transcripts from Columbia University.

Cavanaugh: Hmmmm.

Root: And I'd be willing to bet every dime I have in the world, a million dollars I'll put, I'll put a million dollars cash on the fact—

Welch: This is on the record—

Root: —that my GPA was better than Barack's—

Welch: Oooooh.

Root: ...and he got in based on the color of his skin.

Does anyone doubt that possibly Barack could have gotten into Harvard with a C average because he's black, where as I, white, couldn't get into the same school with a B-plus, A-minus average? And yet his wife says that America is a terrible nation unfair to minorities! I say, Au contraire!

I say the whole problem with America is we are racist against people because of the color of their skin. We're helping people because they're black. We're helping people because they're minority. We're helping people because they're poor. In reality only those who have the most skill and talent should get into Harvard, not because of the color of their skin.

So now I ask out loud in the press, I challenge my classmate to give his GPA against mine. And let's see if he really is the bright guy they all say he is. What if we discover he got into Harvard with a C average? Is he then the brilliant man America thinks he is? That would be a very good question, don't you think?

Welch: The follow-up I want to ask is: What if it's better than yours? You just said a million dollars!

[more]

633 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:40pm

re: #588 opnion

I agree. She is being held to an impossibly high standard.

This is because Sarah Palin is currently the greatest living threat to the false "god" of state socialism.

(to keep this sort of in context with the topic)

One of the pillars of state socialism as practiced by the American left is that "disadvantaged" people(s) (ie: everyone not a white male heterosexual Christian) can't get to positions of success, and particularly, to a position of great political power (ie: VP, President) without going through them, as they claim that this is "impossible" because of the evil "discrimination" of the white male heterosexual Christian patriarchy.

Socialists require perpetual "victims" in order to maintain their relevance and power. If the "victims" ever get the idea that they can "get it done" without the socialists, then the socialists are revealed in their true form, that they are "Emperors without clothes".

This is why they tried to destroy Clarence Thomas, and it's why they will do everything they can do to destroy Sarah.

She has the burden of Jackie Robinson in a way. Fortunately, so far, like the great Jackie Robinson, she's proving that she has the character, strength, and most important of all, personal armor to withstand the out and out hatred of those who hate her because of what she represents:

The death of a particular form of bigotry.

In Jackie Robinson's case, it was his skin color, and the threat a successful black athlete posed to backward neanderthal racists.

In Sarah's case, it's her sex, and the threat that a successful female CONSERVATIVE politician poses to backward, neanderthal state socialists.

634 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:46pm

re: #564 ContraJihadi

I was replying to you in my last post..sorry for the confusion

635 Colonel Panik  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:57:59pm

re: #617 Outrider

In particular reason we are not capable of multi-tasking?

Multitasking= corporate buzzword for doing several things in a half assed fashion instead of concentrating on one task and performing it competently.

636 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:58:06pm

re: #584 Deaddog

Technocratism is for the Euros and Al Gore.

637 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:58:20pm

re: #614 seekeroftruth

Who besides, the taxpayers, fund Public Allies?

See flynmudd's No. 505.

638 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:58:26pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Then we'll have to disagree. Coveting is thought, there's no harm in thinking something. If the commandment had stated "thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's house or wife" I'd agree. Envy is a thought and an emotion; they don't harm anyone.

Thought can be parent to the act, but nothing mandates that it has to be.

639 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:58:37pm

re: #575 Thanos

What's not good? The governor is responsible for the budget, and the state budget couldn't support their part of the bridge funding after it was cut, executive decision made. No flip flop.

re: #576 Outrider

What's the problem here? The bridge was a colossal waste of money considering the number of vehicles using it on a daily bases. The reallocated money would be better spent.

She changed her mind? OH Lord NO! There are situations where better arguments, new data, or changing situations demand a mind change. Does it make more sense to keep going with a bad plan simply so you aren't perceived as a "mind changer".

There is a big difference between someone that changes their mind in the light of new evidence and someone that changes it based upon the audience.

re: #578 EIDE_Interface

Yet when a Democrat says the same thing - we say flip-flopper or waffler. I just want to be fair.

re: #588 opnion

I agree. She is being held to an impossibly high standard.

The MSM and the left are trying to hold Palin to a standard of absolute perfection, just like they do with NObama. The only difference is that any mistake or deviation of Palin's, no matter how small or irrelevant, is immediately put under the MSM microscopes and dissected, analyzed, and trumpeted post haste, but if anything besmirches Obama's "spotless" aura, they'll be the first to sweep it under the rug and make sure that it never sees the light of day in the MSM.

640 seekeroftruth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:59:19pm

re: #637 MandyManners

Thanks! I missed that!

641 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:59:42pm

re: #633 wildcat84

Jackie Robinson - excellent analogy. He's a tough act to emulate, but I think she can do it.

642 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:59:44pm

re: #601 Sharmuta


Now- I will take my chances with McCain/Palin because overall I think they're better for this country. 0bama's tax policies will leave less money for science. But in the meantime- we can work to debunk ID to the point where neither political party will give the notion any quarter. We wont be able to do that if our country isn't safe, secure, free and prosperous.

Here's another point: if Obama wins and fills the Department of Education with community-organisers, what happens to genetic science? Leftists have this idea that evolution stopped approximately 70000 BC. There is a lot of science coming along which is very, very unfortunate for certain pieties. c.f. James Watson, Larry Summers.

643 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:59:45pm

re: #627 David IV of Georgia

If you desire another but you confine your thoughts to acting on them only within marriage it is usually not considered the sin of lust by most Christians.

The sin of pride is usually confined to thinking or feeling you are better than other people, that somehow you can treat them with disdain and uncaring. Being proud of your son, or football team or whatever—using "proud" as a synonym for "respect"—is not a sin, but an ambiguity of the English language.

Trust me on this one:
Sarah Palin == Lust.
Zero chance, would back out given the opportunity. But, I think I can identify lust.
Proud to say it. Sinfully proud.

644 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:59:46pm

re: #601 Sharmuta

We obviously have an issue with science education in this country. I've advocated in the last two nights for Lizards to be sure to also volunteer their time to McCan/Palin- but I went further on the previous thread.

In volunteering time, those of us who would like to improve scientific understanding in the Republican party would have an excellent opportunity to make contacts with other Republicans. It's not necessary to "convert" them to evolution if they want to be more creationist- it's about understanding that the party is political, not religious, and that ID is not science. I feel that once more people understand that ID is harmful to our children's education, it will receive less support. We have an opportunity here to work against pseudo-science, and real conversations with real people in the party could go a long way.

Now- I will take my chances with McCain/Palin because overall I think they're better for this country. 0bama's tax policies will leave less money for science. But in the meantime- we can work to debunk ID to the point where neither political party will give the notion any quarter. We wont be able to do that if our country isn't safe, secure, free and prosperous.

We clearly agree on many things, Sharmuta. That said, at some level science can be seen as a 'waste product.' You fund it after you fund everything else that's supposedly more important (wish that weren't the case, but I've seen too many budgets come and go to think otherwise). It's not just a matter of science education, it's a matter of *doing* science. Now, your arguments about prosperity are bang on. If we are more prosperous, then there is more 'waste' to do science.

There really does come a limit to what cutting taxes can do, though. It's the balance between economic stimulation and actually paying the folks who push the pens ... or handle the test tubes. I'm still mulling that over. Thanks for your reasonable comments.

645 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:00:24pm

Palin as the new Jackie Robinson? Oh boy that will make liberal heads explode!

646 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:00:30pm

re: #628 Catttt

You are totally guilty of sexism. You are assuming she was picked because she was a woman, even though she was fricking AWESOME for the base, with the bonus of an incredible record and understanding of energy policy.

I knew about her months ago, but I never dreamed I'd get lucky enough to have her as the choice. When I woke up and saw it was she, I was dumbstruck - and very, very happy.

.
You knew about her before I did. I am a Romney fan, but three days before the choice I was pulling for her. She is a decent woman & a winner!

647 JHW  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:00:42pm

re: #622 Thanos

Man I don't blame you on that. There are lots of black bears here, I've seen hundreds up close and respect but don't fear them. Alaskan Brown and Kodiak bears now, that's another story, I wouldn't want to get anywhere near them. I'm chicken on that one.

648 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:00:51pm

re: #629 Catttt

I could life with Kristen Powers. So to speak.

i say stay w/ skeletor.
powers is a much more devious ambitious person.
skeletor is kind of harmless tho repugnant.

649 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:01:08pm
650 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:01:23pm

re: #648 nyc redneck

i say stay w/ skeletor.
powers is a much more devious ambitious person.
skeletor is kind of harmless tho repugnant.

Nah I just can't stand too look at Skeletor anymore.

651 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:01:24pm

How to save a web page to your pc For annotating those bad KOS sites.

652 opnion  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:01:56pm

re: #633 wildcat84

Really well said.

653 coquimbojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:02:01pm

re: #599 Colonel Panik

It was posted earlier. Here it is.

I saw that. Thanks! What's the word I am looking for? Rhymes with hashism, cashism, smashism.....Fascism, that's the one!

654 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:02:48pm

re: #611 HoosierHoops

conjugation within marriage with the purpose of begetting a child is not lust per se, because the act is performed with a rational purpose in mind, instead of being merely the result of a blind impulse...
I'm positive that in the early times with everybody running around half naked that the first thing that came to mind was a ' rational purpose of mind'
actually when i was 17 that was the first thing that came to mind..
if 'begetting a child is not lust per se' then how the hell did we end up with 5 kids?
/ i'm just playing with ya..almost 2 bottles of wine and a little silly..

That's ok, I was only half serious (and perhaps more than half "greedy" with the vine) myself. I was just trying to stimulate a little discussion over the theme of the Seven Deadly Sins. More seriously though, I think it's good for us, if we cherish our general civilization, now and then to think about our individual actions. We may not always thereby "perfect" them, but they may become a little more graceful. No?

Just to tease you though, I hope you will share my relief that we no longer live in "early times," when an act of murder would come just as readily and as unreflectively as an act of lust.

655 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:02:58pm

BREAKING NEWS: U.S. government plans takeover of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, reports say

656 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:11pm

re: #601 Sharmuta

We obviously have an issue with science education in this country. I've advocated in the last two nights for Lizards to be sure to also volunteer their time to McCan/Palin- but I went further on the previous thread.

How 'bout volunteering at home to teach science? I volunteer to teach info security and have given free presentations to kids via my company. I don't need government money to do this (in fact, if my taxes were lower :) ....) I don't want the government doing it. I also spend time with folks volunteering to do security research, private charity money only. If interested, feel free to e-mail me ...

657 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:13pm

re: #649 taxfreekiller

its not new, sock puppy,

of note: Deaddog...

now who's the puppet master is the question?

Gordon, another Cognito,

grants,
I am a scientist,
you little people,
me big people,,

got a pattern that post similarly to some others

who

Not Cog. Cog would never write "alot."

658 EIDE_Interface  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:19pm

re: #655 HelloDare

BREAKING NEWS: U.S. government plans takeover of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, reports say

So what they're already quasi-government entities.

659 rabidfox  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:34pm

re: #43 Purple Prose

PP, it's such a big deal because of the incesent anti religious drum beat that we've been subject to for a long, long time. A defenstive adaptation. Soldalities under threat tend to come closer together and get more rigid in their thinking.

660 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:38pm

re: #429 Celtic Templar

Not sure what your statement has to do with morality vs. religion of the 10 commandments. If I told my wife I lusted after another, it sure as hell would cause some problems.


Actually that brings up the 7 deadly sins, which I ascribe no religiosity to:

1 Lust
2 Gluttony
3 Greed
4 Sloth
5 Wrath
6 Envy
7 Pride

Don't forget the 7 Cardinal Virtues:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Prudence
Justice
Restraint or Temperance
Courage or Fortitude
Faith
Hope
Charity

661 ruddoj  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:03:42pm

Personally, I have grown to really dislike Mr. Savage's show quite a bit and grown to really like Mark Levin's radio show......

Savage is not very consistent in his arguments and stances.....

Levin is rarely 'off' in his strict 'Constitutional' ideology.....

Glenn Beck, El-Rush-bo and Neil Boortz all have solid radio programs.....better than Air America and Stuart Smally.

662 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:04:31pm

re: #661 ruddoj

Did you hear Levin's show today?

663 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:05pm
664 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:12pm

re: #595 coquimbojoe

Glenn Beck commented extensively today about the group the Obama is affiliated with that is the model for his civilian army of volunteers. Apparently it is a training ground for community agitators/organizers. He started the Chicago branch in 1992. it is called United Allies. I can't find a website, but it sounds pretty heinous. There was an expose in Investors Business Daily recently I can't seem to find either....

From my post #349 on the genome thread:

Interesting story at Investors' Business Daily (at IBDEditorials.com) that Glenn Beck brought up today:

Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals

An excerpt:

"If you commit to serving your community," he pledged in his Denver acceptance speech, "we will make sure you can afford a college education." So, go through government to go to college, and then go back into government.

Many of today's youth find the pitch attractive. "I may spend the rest of my life trying to create social movement," said Brian Coovert of the Cincinnati chapter. "There is always going to be work to do. Until we have a perfect country, I'll have a job."

Not all the recruits appreciate the PC indoctrination. "It was too touchy-feely," said Nelly Nieblas, 29, of the 2005 Los Angeles class. "It's a lot of talk about race, a lot of talk about sexism, a lot of talk about homophobia, talk about -isms and phobias."

One of those -isms is "heterosexism," which a Public Allies training seminar in Chicago describes as a negative byproduct of "capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy and male-dominated privilege."

The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said.

The gall of it: The Obamas want to create a boot camp for radicals who hate the military — and stick American taxpayers with the bill.

Comrades NObama and Michelle My Belle make me want to hurl....

665 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:18pm

re: #626 nyc redneck

2 bottles of wine? drink a lot of water before you turn in tonight.

Only because of the nitrates... 1 or 2 bottles of pure wine wouldn't be so excessive for an average sized man...

666 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:24pm

re: #647 JHW

Man I don't blame you on that. There are lots of black bears here, I've seen hundreds up close and respect but don't fear them. Alaskan Brown and Kodiak bears now, that's another story, I wouldn't want to get anywhere near them. I'm chicken on that one.

They don't get totally huge in Broad Pass like they do in the SE of Alaska, but they are still larger than your average bear...

667 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:36pm

re: #661 ruddoj

Personally, I have grown to really dislike Mr. Savage's show quite a bit and grown to really like Mark Levin's radio show......

Savage is not very consistent in his arguments and stances.....

Levin is rarely 'off' in his strict 'Constitutional' ideology.....

Glenn Beck, El-Rush-bo and Neil Boortz all have solid radio programs.....better than Air America and Stuart Smally.

I heard Randi Rhodes say that Alaska was just a big money laundering operation.

668 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:38pm

re: #653 coquimbojoe

I saw that. Thanks! What's the word I am looking for? Rhymes with hashism, cashism, smashism.....Fascism, that's the one!

Exactly what I thought when I read it.
but...conservatives are the ones with the guns right?
Guns will always win over buckets of urine.

669 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:05:51pm

re: #649 taxfreekiller

its not new, sock puppy,

of note: Deaddog...

now who's the puppet master is the question?

Gordon, another Cognito,

grants,
I am a scientist,
you little people,
me big people,,

got a pattern that post similarly to some others

who

Well, actually, I'm me. Check out some of my posts on threads that have to do solely with evolution (which this one sort of does). For someone who is on a site that goes a long way towards debunking conspiracies, you seem to need to adjust the little tin foil hat a little more.

670 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:05pm

re: #592 ladycatnip

They're giving normal Christians a bad rap

I agree. They have been building it for a long time. You should see the ID cosmology. Oy.
It goes back to the 80's at least.
As far as I am concerned it's still "scopes trial" "I'm no monkey" that drives it. Drives it all the way to the far reaches of cosmology even.
As I have remarked before: the DNA results are in. 98% chimp, one and all.
Several people on this thread have offered enlightened viewpoints that include the Creator without ruining science.

671 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:10pm
672 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:21pm

re: #624 Zimriel

486: "Is morality defined by acts or values?"

Since you said "defined by" I have to use a philosophical understanding of "morality" in my answer, and I have to say "values".

However one's actions will, over time, make it easier to hold certain values and harder to hold certain others. And failure to act shows that one's values in that regard are hollow (as Saint James points out in a letter somewhere). :^)

Values first. I have a friend who has a set of strict values that I always fall into trouble with. And she acts in accordance with them. she will adjust them if her actions lead her to believe it is necessary. I am so impressed with her, but it's hell sometimes.

673 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:32pm

re: #661 ruddoj

Personally, I have grown to really dislike Mr. Savage's show quite a bit and grown to really like Mark Levin's radio show......

Savage is not very consistent in his arguments and stances.....

Levin is rarely 'off' in his strict 'Constitutional' ideology.....

Glenn Beck, El-Rush-bo and Neil Boortz all have solid radio programs.....better than Air America and Stuart Smally.

it doesn't get any better than mark levin, for me.
he is so brilliant. he's a real patriot.
i do love rush as well. and hannity is fine.
i've learned a lot from all of them.

674 gunjam  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:33pm
If you don’t want to turn the clock back to medieval times and deny most of modern science, then according to Answers in Genesis you’re a damned atheist. And you can’t be neutral, or believe in God and evolution; it’s creationism or hell.

Charles, your apparent animus towards creationists appears to be interfering with your normally lucid thought processes. This paragraph of yours contains laughable distortions.

"Most of modern science?" Puh-leeeeeeease. There are creationists in medicine, engineering, aviation, oceanography, IT, etc. MOST of modern science?

Of course, perhaps you were using hyperbole, which is okay, too, and I wouldn't want to be too much of a "literalist" in this matter.

One point in your paragraph is accurate, however: Lao Stinky to the contrary notwithstanding, one cannot LOGICALLY be BOTH an evolutionist AND a biblical theist.

(Note: As in Lao Stinky's case -- neither all evolutionists nor all Christians are logically consistent-- in fact, perhaps most are not.)

675 Russkilitlover  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:40pm

re: #576 Outrider

There is a big difference between someone that changes their mind in the light of new evidence and someone that changes it based upon the audience.

And that's the trouble with a lot of scientific thought today. Scientists get married to their positions and their reputation (and grant funding) depends on THAT ONE position, so new evidence is dismissed, ignored, and twisted. I'm thinking in particular, global warming "science."

676 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:40pm

re: #671 taxfreekiller

I'd second that motion. Levin is a trip!

677 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:45pm

re: #539 kcladderman

That was a nice simple way to put.

That she was never a "champion" of it nor had she made any commitment to it--after all she wasn't even governor nor promised it.

Imagine, a Governor who decides that a project is NOT cost effective after reviewing it.

I believe they got 273 million from the federal government for infrastructure development and the bridge would have cost over 4 million. To serve 50 persons. She used the money (already there) for other projects which she was well within her right to do, decide what was more necessary.

Sometimes it boggles my mind how many WANT efficient government, do not want wasteful spending and then criticize when a leader does exactly what they SHOULD be doing.

678 coquimbojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:06:54pm

re: #664 talon_262

Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for. Everyone should be aware of this and his ties to ACORN.

679 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:07:15pm

re: #621 Sharmuta

What I read was her legal adviser told her it was unconstitutional, thus the veto. Good for her to not waste taxpayer dollars in court to fight for a law that would have been overturned anyways.

Great. I'm all for not wasting taxpayers hard earned dollars! Thanks for telling me that. The Barracuda seems to know how to swim past the distractions of noisy ideological currents and go right for the main goal. (Perhaps the hockey metaphor works better here; I'll have to journey to Delphi and consult the oracle in order to find the right image).

680 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:07:23pm

re: #609 EIDE_Interface

I don't like Mark Levin or Michael Savage, they both give conservatives a nasty reputation.

I don't know how you've come to that conclusion about Levin. BTW, is there anything or anyone you do like? Lotta negativity coming out of that keyboard ya got there. Whew.

681 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:07:36pm
682 theatheistjew  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:08:07pm

AIG and the rest of the Young Earth Creationists are laughing stocks.
They need to be marginalized. Luckily they are. By just about every TV show having to do with science, and the internet which has a wealth of information which shows there is no debate regarding evolution versus creation.

Palin does scare me. She could be a Rapturist. And Rapturists should never be anything but cooks or cleaners in the White House.

If given the chance they might try to fast track Armageddon.

683 tunnelrat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:08:08pm

re: #601 Sharmuta

My God,! Is ID that big of an issue to you? Does an individuals private and
personal beliefs in the origins of life determine how you vote in an election? Hopefully the rest of the country is not as narrowminded and spitefull as you are.

684 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:08:23pm

Moyers interviews Rather right now on TV. Rather working over GWB again. I had thought I had seen the last of him since he called Florida for Gore way before the polls closed in the panhandle.

685 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:08:28pm

re: #678 coquimbojoe

Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for. Everyone should be aware of this and his ties to ACORN.

I think somebody should just tie his ACORNs.
Then come back a couple days later.

They do that to make steers, nowdays.

686 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:08:43pm

re: #641 Catttt

Jackie Robinson - excellent analogy. He's a tough act to emulate, but I think she can do it.

The Left hates Sarah and will do whatever they can to break her, to intimidate her, to force her to quit, because, much like the racists who did the same things to Jackie Robinson, her success in reaching the pinnacle (ie, the 2nd highest office in the United States, and likely being promoted later to the highest office), that success destroys the perceptions that the Left tries to maintain as "reality".

That being that a woman can't possibly achieve what Sarah is on the cusp of achieving.

Racism and sexism are very much alive today. And the practitioners of both mostly call themselves "progressives", claim to be the best friends of minorities and women (whilst perpetuating social programs and schools that are designed largely to keep them in their "place", ie: continuing to need liberal socialists and their programs).

Even the Democrat party's nomination of Obama doesn't disprove their inherent racism and sexism. Obama ran a VERY sexist campaign to beat Hillary, who likewise ran a VERY racist campaign to try to beat Obama. A non white male is the nominee of the Democrat party only because of the happenstance that the only choice was between two non white males.

687 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:09:29pm

re: #683 tunnelrat

I don't see where you're getting "narrowminded and spiteful" out of that post.

688 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:09:46pm
689 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:09:53pm

re: #644 Deaddog

Well- I could talk all night about how government spends it's money, but I would be digressing. First and foremost, this country must remain secure or there will be no budget for anything. Perhaps in the future we'll see less funding for global warming research and more of that money will be freed up for science that matters- science that can actually save lives and not science that's driving a pseudo-marxist agenda.

And- you're welcome for the comments. Despite any reputation I might have about attacking trolls and mobys, I can be reasonable. You've shown reason in the past about ID, so I thought I'd make an appeal to that sensibility I've previously seen you display. Glad we could find some points on which to agree.

690 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:09:57pm

re: #681 taxfreekiller

Have you listened to Mike Church or Andrew Wilkow on Sirius Patriot Channel?

691 wolfie  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:10:05pm

re: #447 Cartman

I know, I know. I fat-fingered the f'n keyboard, again. Fair dames are cool, tho. ;)

Rats. I rather liked "those who spout nonsense are fair dames."
If I happen to spout nonsense (which I am apt to do from time to time), it is comforting to know that at least I'm a "fair dame." :)

692 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:11:04pm
693 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:12:21pm

re: #682 theatheistjew

AIG and the rest of the Young Earth Creationists are laughing stocks.
They need to be marginalized. Luckily they are. By just about every TV show having to do with science, and the internet which has a wealth of information which shows there is no debate regarding evolution versus creation.

Palin does scare me. She could be a Rapturist. And Rapturists should never be anything but cooks or cleaners in the White House.

If given the chance they might try to fast track Armageddon.

Paranoid?

694 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:12:56pm

re: #691 wolfie

*wink*

695 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:13:09pm

re: #591 EIDE_Interface

The Federal Government is so inefficient that they probably don't even have a process to do that!

Lots of states get federal money for infrastructure, roads and bridges. So there isn't anything unusual in that. Even more appropriate when the state is maintaining a lot of federal highways and bridges.

696 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:13:11pm

re: #683 tunnelrat

My God,! Is ID that big of an issue to you? Does an individuals private and
personal beliefs in the origins of life determine how you vote in an election? Hopefully the rest of the country is not as narrowminded and spitefull as you are.

Why is it narrowminded and spiteful to try to understand the positions of candidates on important issues? How a candidate approaches science is a huge issue. How they think about the scientific advice of their advisors is a huge issue. This is not small potatoes stuff. If nothing else, look at the number of posters who actually take the time to flesh out their positions on these issues. Maybe they just like to hear themselves jabber, but Charles keeps posting this stuff because *it* *is* *important.*

697 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:13:23pm

re: #682 theatheistjew

AIG and the rest of the Young Earth Creationists are laughing stocks.
They need to be marginalized. Luckily they are. By just about every TV show having to do with science, and the internet which has a wealth of information which shows there is no debate regarding evolution versus creation.

Palin does scare me. She could be a Rapturist. And Rapturists should never be anything but cooks or cleaners in the White House.

If given the chance they might try to fast track Armageddon.

They're already trying that. Certain evangelical groups are just as fanatical about war in the middleeast as the Islamic leaders...

But don't cast her into that group unless she confirms it...

698 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:13:49pm

re: #693 piglet-u93

Paranoid?

No. It sounds like people really will be out to get him, soon.

699 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:13:53pm

re: #683 tunnelrat

Did you even read my post? If Governor Palin wants to believe ID or be a creationist, that is her business. So long as she upholds her oath of office, then I don't care.

And- I think it's called "projection".

700 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:14:06pm

re: #674 gunjam

It's a valid discussion point. Your faith tells you that the world is only 6000 years old and evolution is not possible. The majority of the world's population believes that God created the Universe and also created evolution billions of years ago. What you have is an un questioning faith based on the charisma of your church and your need to have life be easy. Lot's of people like that. You should accept that most people aren't going to have your viewpoint.

701 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:14:35pm

re: #683 tunnelrat

My God,! Is ID that big of an issue to you? Does an individuals private and
personal beliefs in the origins of life determine how you vote in an election? Hopefully the rest of the country is not as narrowminded and spitefull as you are.

I think you misunderstand...the point I think Sharmuta was trying to make was that religious "theories" (such as ID) have absolutely no place in public education and if people want real science education for their kids, they need to make sure the politicians understand that inserting ID into public science education (as Bobby Jindal did by signing the DI-backed ID bill a while back) will not be tolerated.

702 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:14:59pm

re: #626 nyc redneck

2 bottles of wine? drink a lot of water before you turn in tonight.

Thanks nyc..I promise to drink some Fiji water tonight..
Good night lizards it was fun tonight..
So here is the hoopsters wrap up...
___________________________
1.)We found out that Jordank was been here like 6 times before..banned every stinking time...and to think i started feeling sorry for him...
2.) My sense of humor kindof sucks..I need to do an apprenticeship with buzzsawmonkey for 2 years..like kill bill vol 1
3.) T-Rex burgers really need to be marinated for 24 hours..ask jorline..he knows how to do it..
3.a) you're on a ID thread you figure it out..
anyhoo..it's been great fun good night

703 DesertSage  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:33pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

How can anyone believe in creationism?
Easy, if you believe that God created the universe then you believe that God created all of the elements in the universe.
If you believe that God created all of the elements in the universe, then you believe that God created life.

It's really easy. I don't know why you don't get it?

Michael Reagan believes that his dad is back....with a dress!

704 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:35pm

re: #688 taxfreekiller

Of Note:

Lost Alamos lab, full of commies and loons with Govt. grants .

Yet they claim to be real, not, just on the dole with to much time.

OK, this is just whack. These are the folks who try desperately to figure out how to keep our nuclear stockpile from just melting into nothingness. How elements that weren't even around before we invented them will continue to function into the future. Jeez. Could you be any more ridiculous?

705 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:44pm

re: #700 hazzyday

It's a valid discussion point. Your faith tells you that the world is only 6000 years old and evolution is not possible. The majority of the world's population believes that God created the Universe and also created evolution billions of years ago. What you have is an un questioning faith based on the charisma of your church and your need to have life be easy. Lot's of people like that. You should accept that most people aren't going to have your viewpoint.

I disagree totally.
I think it was trillions of years ago.

706 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:46pm

Gee. I hate I missed out on another creationists thread.

707 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:46pm

re: #701 talon_262

I think you misunderstand...the point I think Sharmuta was trying to make was that religious "theories" (such as ID) have absolutely no place in public education and if people want real science education for their kids, they need to make sure the politicians understand that inserting ID into public science education (as Bobby Jindal did by signing the DI-backed ID bill a while back) will not be tolerated.

Thank you, Talon.

708 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:15:50pm

re: #701 talon_262

I don't think the government should be in the education business.

709 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:16:05pm

re: #693 piglet-u93
That is just silly. The Rapture/Armeggedon can't be brought about by us puny mortals. We could blow ouselves up and God doesn't have to do squat.

710 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:16:14pm

re: #447 Cartman

I know, I know. I fat-fingered the f'n keyboard, again. Fair dames are cool, tho. ;)

I fat-finger a lot of stuff (no jokes please), but I do like finding humor in typos. One thing I don't do, though, is use the "you made a typo, and therefore both you and your argument are stupid and irrelevant" thing.

P.S. If I make a humorous typo, please feel free to crack a joke. It's all in good fun.

711 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:16:30pm

re: #584 Deaddog

That's a reasonable point, Lynn. I don't think scientists should be listened to on anything but ... science. Politicians have to balance a huge variety of concerns. But as I've said before, we're coming out of a period where scientific advice was actively muzzled at various levels in the government. This was unprecedented. The starving of the American scientific infrastructure (failing to even keep pace with inflation) is also sort of unprecedented.

I want to see candidates who are actively promoting science. Neither side is doing that. There isn't a technocrat in the whole bunch. But since I believe this is a critical issue, I'm left to make a binary choice based on the few indicators we have. Yes, yes, there are other factors to that binary choice. But I'm choosing to talk about this one. You can claim it doesn't matter (you're wrong), or you can put your fingers in your ears and go "nyah, nyah, nyah" at me (not you, Lynn), but that doesn't make the problem go away.

I also want to see candidates who are actively promoting science. It's a foregone conclusion that our country's future depends on it, both from a defense and an economic standpoint, not to mention wellness advancement (a/k/a health care), among other things. I hope the questions will be put to them and I'll be very interested in the answers. But, again, I'm not aware of any evidence that McCain/Palin would be any less supportive of science than Obama/Biden.

Anyway, thanks for your response. You sound more like you now... ;-)

/like I would know

712 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:17:06pm

re: #671 taxfreekiller

Mark Levin would be a great Press Sec. for the new VP Sarah Palin.

Some people who would be awesome in a Sarah Palin administration:

Secretary of State: John Bolton
Attorney General: Mark Levin
Secretary of Defense: General David Petrayus
Secretary of Homeland Security: Joe Arpaio
Press Secretary: Brit Hume

(imagine the Kos kidz reaction to THAT!)

713 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:17:06pm

re: #708 flynmudd

I don't think the government should be in the education business.

And I don't think education should be in the government business.

714 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:17:18pm

re: #665 experiencedtraveller

Only because of the nitrates sulfites...

/sigh

715 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:17:30pm

re: #655 HelloDare

BREAKING NEWS: U.S. government plans takeover of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, reports say

I'd like them to take over my mortgage payments also

716 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:17:48pm

re: #702 HoosierHoops

good night HoosierHoops,

717 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:18:27pm

re: #658 EIDE_Interface

So what [Fannie n Freddie]'re already quasi-government entities.

Oh, we're now nationalising industries? Awesome! We Mencius Moldbug fans couldn't be happier.

"Quasi-government" would also apply to any news station with access rights to television wavelengths. They must have a license to publish. Clearly the government needs to seize direct control of ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX (at least).

Also, I wonder about any form of "official", "impartial" journalism which is aligned with the interests of the permanent civil service. Organs like the New York Times are not capitalist enterprises and that is why they lose money. We may as well treat them as they are, which is as manipulators of public opinion and a de facto legislature.

718 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:18:42pm

re: #713 jwb7605

And I don't think education should be in the government business.


I think there's very little education in congress right now.

719 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:19:13pm

re: #526 Killian Bundy

Ocho Cinco gets the OK from NFL on new name

/what an ass


What? I guess I'm an ass too, then, for changing my name to "Comment 719."

720 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:19:32pm

Or 720.

721 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:19:41pm

Drat.

722 Ojoe[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:20:10pm
723 esch  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:20:13pm

re: #705 jwb7605

I disagree totally.
I think it was trillions of years ago.

Based on?

724 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:20:19pm

re: #713 jwb7605

And I don't think education should be in the government business.

That will take care of itself if we had real school choice, and schools lived or died like any other business based on it's success or failure, and the customer's satisfaction.

Education is the sole institution that seems to get more money the more it fails, which hardly gives any incentive for success.

725 ContraJihadi  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:20:36pm

re: #660 Salamantis

Don't forget the 7 Cardinal Virtues:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Prudence
Justice
Restraint or Temperance
Courage or Fortitude
Faith
Hope
Charity

Now of these I know that the first four come from "pagan" times. The last three are obviously Christian. But I think they might apply beyond Christianity:

Faith, even though it may not yet been demonstrated to you, faith that "Reason rules the World." Such a faith will direct guide further reflection on what the Catholics call right reason (reason grounded in moral seriousness).

Hope, that although history is a slaughter bench and there will always be wars among nations and ideologies, the telos of Man is Freedom.

Charity: the awareness that in so far as the actions of none us us ever fully accords with his self-ideal, we are to forgive ourselves, lest we perish in frenzy; and, likewise, that because other individuals in this regard are just like each of us, to be honest we must forgive them in a similar manner. ... Understanding that this forgiveness is not a blank check for uncritical tolerance, but that full forgiveness can follow only upon earnest repentance; and that the process of reconciliation may sometimes involve condign rebuke or chastisement.

726 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:21:12pm

Ack. I've given up trying to keep up with this thread.

Has anyone heard from Reine? I haven't seen her post here since Gustav and I'm getting worried (it's my natural state). But it more than possible I just missed her.

Ploome? Anyone?

727 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:21:19pm

re: #710 Slumbering Behemoth

P.S. If I make a humorous typo, please feel free to crack a joke. It's all in good fun.

Oh, I know it was. I was poking fun at my mistake, as well. I just hate it when I let a comment fly without proofing it first. With my typing skills, that almost always ends in disaster. ;)

728 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:21:20pm

re: #708 flynmudd

I don't think the government should be in the education business.

Ideally, that would be preferable, but we don't live in an ideal world, so we make the best out of what we have. This means we need to do all we can to keep crap such as ID out of the classrooms and teach hard science (along with proper English/grammar, math, etc.) to our kids, so they can compete in the global marketplace on an even playing ground

729 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:22:00pm
730 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:22:46pm

re: #656 Celtic Templar

How 'bout volunteering at home to teach science? I volunteer to teach info security and have given free presentations to kids via my company. I don't need government money to do this (in fact, if my taxes were lower :) ....) I don't want the government doing it. I also spend time with folks volunteering to do security research, private charity money only. If interested, feel free to e-mail me ...

I think many scientists would help their cause if they engaged in a scientific outreach (for lack of a better term). It's like Ken Miller wrote in his book Only A Theory- where is Mr. Wizard now that we need him?

731 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:23:04pm

re: #722 Ojoe

Steady Ojoe the dude with the pipe wrench is around...

/alas too late!

732 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:23:20pm

re: #728 talon_262

Ideally, that would be preferable, but we don't live in an ideal world, so we make the best out of what we have. This means we need to do all we can to keep crap such as ID out of the classrooms and teach hard science (along with proper English/grammar, math, etc.) to our kids, so they can compete in the global marketplace on an even playing ground

I learned about evolution... In a Christian school. I graduated from Ironton St. Joseph High School in 1991.

(they also taught us that God created the universe and man).

Unfortunately my parent's tax dollars went not to the fine education I got, but to the local failed government schools in a state (Kentucky) that consistently has only West Virginia to thank for not being dead last.

733 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:24:14pm

re: #709 pingjockey

re: #682 theatheistjew

Palin is a mother, she is down to earth and sane so no worries here.
Armageddon is Amadinnerjacket's obession. If you have to worry think of him.

734 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:24:16pm

Investor’s Business Daily investigates Barack and Michelle Obama’s cozy relationship with the radical “Public Allies.”

Read it.

The piece dovetails well with my “community organizer” column today and the recent piece I did on Obama’s government proposal for subsidizing “social entrepreneurship” and the Democrat Party’s hidden Soros slush fund — as well as all the terrific work Stanley Kurtz has done on Annenberg/Ayers.

The more you get to know about the far left-wing friends of Barack Obama, the tighter you need to hold onto your wallet.

735 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:24:32pm

re: #723 esch

Based on?

My investigation and experimentation tell me the world was made 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0
years ago.

That's right. A centillion.

736 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:24:59pm

re: #726 Lynn B.

She's around and has scolded me recently.

737 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:25:17pm

re: #729 taxfreekillerDid you hear about the secutiry clearance uproar? Whatever jackass put in charge of the NRC went down there and wanted everybody to have the same security badge. Why? Cuase some people had different badges so they could access more sensitive areas of the facility. This asshat said it made those without the required need to know "feel bad".

738 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:25:18pm

re: #730 Sharmuta

I think many scientists would help their cause if they engaged in a scientific outreach (for lack of a better term). It's like Ken Miller wrote in his book Only A Theory- where is Mr. Wizard now that we need him?

Unfortunately, Mr. Wizard (Don Herbert) is deceased...man, I remember watching him on Nickelodeon in their early days in the 80s and being knocked out by his simple, no-nonsense way of demonstration.

739 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:25:48pm

re: #736 Killgore Trout

probably well deserved too.... ;)

740 ContraJihadi[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:26:12pm
741 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:26:13pm

re: #738 talon_262

Unfortunately, Mr. Wizard (Don Herbert) is deceased...man, I remember watching him on Nickelodeon in their early days in the 80s and being knocked out by his simple, no-nonsense way of demonstration.

I miss him.

742 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:26:40pm

re: #728 talon_262

I would prefer the government get out of it all together. They suck at everything they try to manage. Sara Palin needs to go hunting and kill the DOE. Biggest waste of money, second only to congress.

743 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:26:43pm

Acorn on the value of community organizing and stuffing ballot boxes.

744 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:27:14pm

Whatever has been said in the past, I'm tending to trust Palin that she is now committed to respecting the line between personal beliefs and public policy.

PS After watching the (excellent) acceptance speeches from both Palin and McCain I would for the first time now put my money on a republican victory.

745 wolfie  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:27:37pm

re: #694 Cartman

*blush*

746 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:27:47pm

re: #742 flynmudd

As the saying goes- a penny saved is a Congressional spending oversight.

747 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:27:49pm

re: #733 piglet-u93
I don't worry. That little bastard will get whacked by someone before the bomb is done, and the bomb will get whacked at the same time. My worry was, not so much any more, was Russian generals with acces to nukes or nuclear material.

748 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:27:58pm

re: #737 pingjockey

This asshat said it made those without the required need to know "feel bad".

Straight out of the PC 101 textbook. Scary shit.

749 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:28:10pm

Comments that tell me not to post about this topic, or that complain about posts on this topic, are going to be deleted.

750 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:28:30pm

re: #735 Cognito

My investigation and experimentation tell me the world was made 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0
years ago.

That's right. A centillion.

Earth is approximately 5 billion years old, and is slightly younger than Sol, our Sun.

It will be destroyed in approximately 5 billion years from now, when Sol begins to die as a Red Giant star, exhausted of Hydrogen fuel.

Of course, life on Earth as we know it will be gone less than a billion years from now, because Sol steadily INCREASES in luminosity and size as it consumes hydrogen in it's core and nuclear fusion gradually move outward...

Which brings me to global "warming"... What is to blame? SUV's? Algore's ego? Nope, the sun.

Great explanation of the life cycle of our star:

[Link: www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu...]

751 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:28:40pm

Well we do have Bill Nye

752 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:28:43pm

re: #749 Charles

Alaska?

753 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:29:00pm

/p-Diddy off

754 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:29:28pm

re: #748 Cartman
I forgot to mention it was during Billy Jeffs term!

755 Ojoe[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:29:58pm
756 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:15pm

re: #741 Sharmuta

I miss him.

True genius is the talent to take that which is complex and make it simple so that others can learn it. Mr Wizard certainly could do that.

757 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:43pm

re: #754 pingjockey

What a surprise!

Not.

758 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:47pm
759 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:50pm

re: #750 wildcat84

Earth is approximately 5 billion years old, and is slightly younger than Sol, our Sun.

It will be destroyed in approximately 5 billion years from now, when Sol begins to die as a Red Giant star, exhausted of Hydrogen fuel.

Of course, life on Earth as we know it will be gone less than a billion years from now, because Sol steadily INCREASES in luminosity and size as it consumes hydrogen in it's core and nuclear fusion gradually move outward...

Which brings me to global "warming"... What is to blame? SUV's? Algore's ego? Nope, the sun.

Great explanation of the life cycle of our star:

[Link: www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu...]

We also have potentially enough nuclear fuel to last that entire five billion years with some breakthroughs in extracting Thorium from seawater, deep mining techniques, etc.

760 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:56pm

If you are deleted it leaves a square edge.

761 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:30:56pm

re: #543 talon_262

Icehouse...ugghh! Gimme a Red Stripe...

Hey, if you buying it then I'm drinking it. Until then, my broke ass is buying cheap ass beer.

762 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:31:09pm

re: #749 Charles
That is what, 50 bazillion times you've posted that? Some peoples kids.

763 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:31:12pm

re: #751 Thanos

Well we do have Bill Nye

True. It would be nice if he had more exposure.

764 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:31:31pm

Good Night All

765 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:31:40pm

re: #718 nightintheruts

I think there's very little education in congress right now.

With all the Harvard/Yale/USC/pick-your-alma-mater graduates?

Totally agree, and that's my reciprocal point.

766 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:31:57pm

re: #736 Killgore Trout

She's around and has scolded me recently.

Thank you Kilgore! Very good to hear.

/I'm sure you deserved it ;-)

767 esch  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:32:08pm

re: #750 wildcat84

That was my understanding.

I was wondering where the trillions figure came from.

768 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:32:38pm

re: #750 wildcat84

Earth is approximately 5 billion years old, and is slightly younger than Sol, our Sun.

It will be destroyed in approximately 5 billion years from now, when Sol begins to die as a Red Giant star, exhausted of Hydrogen fuel.

Of course, life on Earth as we know it will be gone less than a billion years from now, because Sol steadily INCREASES in luminosity and size as it consumes hydrogen in it's core and nuclear fusion gradually move outward...

Which brings me to global "warming"... What is to blame? SUV's? Algore's ego? Nope, the sun.

Great explanation of the life cycle of our star:

[Link: www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu...]

No, afraid not. You're close, but wrong.

I know Sol. I see him playing chess down at Union Square most Saturdays. And he uses outrageous amounts of hairspray to maintain the ridiculous charade of his comb-over.

So yes, Sol is responsible for global warming. But he only increases in size and luminosity after consuming Mexican food, not hydrogen.

769 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:32:47pm

re: #734 MandyManners

This is so troubling. The more we dig into Obambi's policies, the worse it gets. This guy is just too extreme far left. He certainly has pulled the wool over a lot of people's eyes.

770 rabidfox  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:32:49pm

re: #203 Jim D

Actually, the First Commandment was the first step to separating church from state. Remember, up until then, all the rulers of all the civilizations were living gods.

771 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:32:59pm
772 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:33:09pm

re: #766 Lynn B.

PIMF ... Killgore

773 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:33:11pm

re: #760 Ojoe

hey Ojoe, can you put up one of those lovely photos that you often post, for a calming effect.

774 laZardo  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:33:13pm

re: #759 Thanos

That is unless the nuclear fuel is used for something else before the Red Giant phase...

775 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:33:18pm

re: #763 Sharmuta

True. It would be nice if he had more exposure.

What I would also like is if there were more Tom Swift style series to compete with Harry Potter, and more science fiction in the Science fiction section instead of fantasy. (Not that there aren't some good fantasy series out there before people go off on me. )

776 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:34:11pm

re: #768 Cognito

fummy

777 realwest  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:34:46pm

re: #760 Ojoe
Good night, Ojoe!

778 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:35:29pm

re: #751 Thanos

Well we do have Bill Nye

He certainly is a latter-day Mr. Wizard, but I believe he is also a bit of an environmental wacko...just so long as he sticks to hard science, I'm cool with him.

Aside from his apparent environmental tendencies, he's got a hell of a resume...

779 Cognito  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:36:32pm

And wildcat, on a slightly more serious note -- I have a hard time believing that the Sun is increasing the temperature on Earth in any felt way. As you noted, it's a long, slow change.

The climate change most people are talking about is the rapid whip-snap sort of change that seems to happens in cycles.

780 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:36:52pm

Earth is not all there is.
We have a Space program. I understand McCain supports it.
No wonder since he is "right stuff" material.
People will escape the Earth.
And there is enough natural gas in the Solar system alone to power everything on hydrogen and gas forever.
We need nukes now though.
I suggest a Navy project somewhat like the Army corps of engineers, to take Naval nuclear tech and build small power stations around the country manned by Navy personell to feed the power grid.
for the moment at least.

781 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:37:46pm

I have posted this before, but here goes again.

One day, far in the future, our Sun will become a Red Giant.

Our Earth will become hotter and hotter.

The oceans will boil off.

All of the earth will be as a cinder.

Every trace of every thing we humans have ever done, begat, thought or written will vanish.

"Lo, I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds"
-the Bagavad Gita

So always remember, and never forget these words of wisdom:
"This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice in it!"

782 sbvft contributor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:37:52pm

Oh great. Chris Matthews to be on Leno tonite. Who. friggin. cares.

783 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:10pm

re: #702 HoosierHoops

1.)We found out that Jordank was been here like 6 times before..banned every stinking time...and to think i started feeling sorry for him...

What were some of his other names—if you remember? Was he one of the memorable trolls or just another set of gamy buttocks?

784 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:16pm

re: #780 Jimash

smashing idea!

785 Timbre  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:36pm

"The main scientific reason why there is no evidence for evolution in either the present or the past (except in the creative imagination of evolutionary scientists) is because one of the most fundamental laws of nature precludes it. The law of increasing entropy--also known as the second law of thermodynamics--stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go 'downhill,' as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity."
--Henry M. Morris, Ph.D., Institute for Creation Research.

Well there you go: "decreased complexity." Explains Code Pink at least...

786 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:41pm

re: #773 nyc redneck

OK !
Gothic Rib Vault - Spain.

787 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:43pm

re: #750 wildcat84

Yes, yes, yes - it is the sun causing global warming, plain and simple (Occams Razor anyone?)

Does anyone have a link to observed evidence that the other solar system planets are also warming up?

788 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:47pm

re: #784 WindHorse

Thank you. Most people laugh.

789 Josephine  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:38:58pm

Hi, folks.

I've been so busy with my ongoing spring cleaning (and resting for a couple of days in between each bout) that I haven't had time to comment but I've tried to read LGF as much as possible.

I like what I've read about Sarah Palin. I will have to watch the videos from the convention on my husband's computer. I have renewed hope that Obama will not win the election.

LGF is looking prettier, too. ; )

Memo to Michael Moore: I'm in Canada and I just paid $65.00 for a blood test that the government doesn't cover. My allergist (he's an M.D., etc.) is testing me for a rare disease. Ooooh, and I'll have to wait at least two months for the results. Just think: elect Obama and you could have Canadian-style health care, too.

On that scary thought, I'm off to bed. Night, all.

790 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:39:23pm

re: #771 Catttt

OT

AnneFrance -419 and counting.

Do we spark one up if it hits -420? You know- celebrate Diddy-style? ;p

791 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:39:36pm

At first, I bellyached a little about frequency of the ID threads, but finally got it through my thick head that served no constructive purpose at all. I just don't understand why some here persist in making an issue out of it. It's real simple - if it doesn't float your boat, don't partake. It's not Charles' duty or obligation to please you personally with his topic selection. Shouldn't be all that hard to understand, I would think.

792 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:40:08pm

re: #788 Jimash

one of the best ideas I have heard in awhile really...

793 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:40:09pm

re: #783 David IV of Georgia

What were some of his other names—if you remember? Was he one of the memorable trolls or just another set of gamy buttocks?

From the previous thread:

#184 Charles 9/05/08 3:26:42 pm

That's the sixth sock puppet of 'jordank' I've banned.

Previous names this idiot has used:

Andrew_KJ
jasonkct
senor_lewie
jaxon
jjdaniels

794 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:40:24pm

re: #778 talon_262

He certainly is a latter-day Mr. Wizard, but I believe he is also a bit of an environmental wacko...just so long as he sticks to hard science, I'm cool with him.

Aside from his apparent environmental tendencies, he's got a hell of a resume...

Well if he's a neighbor to Ed Begley, he's also a neighbor to Jerry Pournelle as well.

795 wildcat84  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:40:25pm

re: #759 Thanos

We also have potentially enough nuclear fuel to last that entire five billion years with some breakthroughs in extracting Thorium from seawater, deep mining techniques, etc.

Life as we know it won't be able to exist on the surface of the Earth in about 1 billion years.

Unless we figure out a way to filter out the sun on a global basis. Which is more or less the only way that "global warming" can be stopped.

Agree on nuclear fusion... Once we get nuclear fusion, and I expect we will have it within the next couple decades, that will be the ultimate power source, as it's near limitless and nearly inexhaustible.

Unless we destroy ourselves, and IMHO, the greatest threat to that isn't nuclear weapons, it's the collapse of the civilization that supports the advancement of science and technology, and the greatest threat to THAT is the... ROP... we should be WELL beyond occupying only one single planet in a single solar system by the time Earth's biosphere is dead due to the dying sun...

796 pingjockey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 8:40:40pm

re: #790 Sharmuta
It did.