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What Do Creationists Think About Sarah Palin?

Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:42:11 pm PDT

Since I’ve posted two articles about Sarah Palin’s statements on creationism, let’s go across the aisle and see what the fanatical Darwin-hating creationists at “Answers In Genesis” think. They’re also examining Palin’s statements, and of course they’re eagerly hoping she’ll be an advocate for their weird pseudo-science: Is She Really a Creationist?

(Notice how they add footnotes everywhere to make it seem like a scholarly work.)

Before we look at Gov. Palin’s beliefs on creation/evolution (she has certainly shown a willingness to express her doubts about the scientific validity of evolution), we should add that caution needs to be exercised in this area before confidently declaring her to be a biblical young-earth creationist. There are all kinds of origins views that span a spectrum that is bookended by a literal Genesis creation on one end and naturalistic evolution on the other. Most politicians, when asked about their origins beliefs, try to answer somewhere between the two bookends, settling into a comfortable place in between so as not to alienate those who believe in a Creator (the overwhelming majority of Americans) while protecting themselves from allegations that they reject mainstream science. We recall that in 2007, Republican candidate for president Gov. Mike Huckabee put up his hand during a debate to show that he did not believe in evolution. Some creationists quickly rejoiced, concluding that Mr. Huckabee, a former Baptist pastor, must believe in a literal, straightforward reading of Genesis. Later, however, he made it clear that he did not necessarily want to be identified with young-earth creationism, saying that he was not sure about a six-day creation.

Although the AiG ministry does not issue political recommendations and will not (in fact, cannot per IRS restrictions) be an advocate for any presidential or vice presidential candidate, we believe that during a time when the creation/evolution debate is hot enough in today’s “culture wars” to become an issue again in a presidential campaign, we will briefly look at the few comments we have found from Gov. Palin on her views about creation/evolution. The statements we have found thus far were made while she was a candidate for governor, when asked about the teaching of biological origins in Alaska’s public schools.

In 2006, then-candidate Palin indicated in a TV debate that creation should be taught alongside evolution in the state’s public schools, declaring that schools should “teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.” Now, in stating this, she may have been advocating the teaching of scientific creationism, as opposed to biblical creationism (the latter having been deemed unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 19875), but we don’t really know.

In an interview the next day, Palin (if the Anchorage Daily News report is correct) appeared to backpedal somewhat, saying that she meant to say that a discussion of alternative views should be allowed but not forced on students, adding: “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.” In other words, Palin was not suggesting that the teaching of creation should be mandated (perhaps realizing that her statement the day before came across as arguing that creation must be in the science curriculum).

The Anchorage newspaper also reported her as saying she would not push the state’s board of education (governors in Alaska appoint board members, and the legislators confirm them) to add creationist alternatives to evolution to the state’s curriculum.

You can almost feel the disappointment, can’t you? But please note, the Answers in Genesis crowd is quick to reassure the world that they don’t want to force creationism on students—not because it’s wrong or anything, but because science teachers trained in “Darwinism” wouldn’t be able to teach their pseudo-science well enough.

Gov. Palin’s clarification of her views on the teaching of origins in public schools mirrors AiG’s general view: biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly, so it would ultimately be counterproductive for the students.

Instead, they’re in favor of “teaching the controversy,” the current strategy of creationists and proponents of “intelligent design.” Rather than force their hooey into schools, they want to sneak it in.

Incidentally, it should be noted that there is no such position as a “neutral” or “non-religious” stance in this debate. Public school biology textbooks and many teachers explain the origin of the universe and life through “natural” processes, defining science as explaining things by “natural” processes. They are indoctrinating students in an atheistic religious belief—that no god is or has been involved; thus, naturalism—in essence, atheism—is now the religion taught in public schools. Parents need to wake up to the fact that public education is not non-religious. Even the Bible affirms that one is either for Christ or against—clearly teaching that there is no such “neutral” position.

If you don’t want to turn the clock back to medieval times and deny most of modern science, then according to Answers in Genesis you’re a damned atheist. And you can’t be neutral, or believe in God and evolution; it’s creationism or hell.

This is how they manipulate the gullible. It’s disturbing and cult-like. Their way is the only way, and God Himself (using Answers in Genesis as His vessel) says so. Depart from the one true path and you are the enemy.

We will continue to seek out additional comments from Gov. Palin regarding her beliefs on creation/evolution.

As will we.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in evolution.
Belief in evolution does not preclude belief in God.
Do not trust those who insist otherwise.
— Lao Stinky

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1237 comments

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1 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:44:47pm

Here we go!

2 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:44:51pm

Sarah Palin has shown with her veto on a bill in Alaska banning benefits to same sex couples working for the state that she will uphold the law even when it goes against her personal beliefs. I trust that her advisers in the White House would be just as good, if not better, in advising her that creationism/ID science will not pass Constitutional muster and she'd veto any bill trying to foist pseudo-science off on American children because that's the type of leader she's already shown herself to be- one that will uphold the Constitution over personal beliefs.

3 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:45:45pm

Yes.
Having debate is awful.
Children should be protected from any thoughts that parents disagree with.
Maybe all students should thus be home schooled and we can jettison all public-financed schooling (indoctrination centers).

4 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:47:13pm
Although the AiG ministry does not issue political recommendations and will not (in fact, cannot per IRS restrictions) be an advocate for any presidential or vice presidential candidate

Oh. Well in that case, why th' h*ll are you writing this?

/bullshiting us

5 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:47:43pm

What do the Flat Earther's think?

6 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:49:08pm
7 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:00pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

What Sharmuta said.

8 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:26pm
biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly


HA!

9 Russkilitlover  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:41pm

By the same logic, why not teach astrology as science based curriculum in schools? Science classes are NO place for theological discussion of any kind. That's why there is church, and church groups, and home discussion. Keep it out of public schools.

10 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:50:44pm

Please note: as always, I'm going to delete any comments telling me to stop posting about this topic.

Just a heads-up.

11 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:05pm

re: #7 Jimash

What Sharmuta said.

Ditto.

12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:35pm
Parents need to wake up to the fact that public education is not non-religious.

That's a pretty clear statement.

13 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:51:54pm
Public school biology textbooks and many teachers explain the origin of the universe and life through “natural” processes, defining science as explaining things by “natural” processes. They are indoctrinating students in an atheistic religious belief—that no god is or has been involved; thus, naturalism—in essence, atheism—is now the religion taught in public schools.

God's gonna be really pissed when he doesn't get credit for natural law and nature.

14 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:52:50pm

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.

On a scale of 1 to 10, including terrorism, war, abortion, economics, empowerment of women (YEAH SARAH), welfare, taxes, education (overall, inc. vouchers), this is kind of small potatoes to me.

15 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:53:50pm

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

16 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:55:03pm

The New York Times article in the liinks above shows the extent to which the left sees the world in indentity-politics colored glasses.

Senator Barack Obama will increasingly lean on prominent Democratic women to undercut Gov. Sarah Palin and Senator John McCain, dispatching Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to Florida on Monday and bolstering his plan to deploy female surrogates to battleground states....

They seem to think that she's popular because she's a woman. "Oh, so they're playing the 'gender' card. I'll play ten thousand gender cards. Bwahaha!"

...a rapid response team is being created in Chicago to dispatch female surrogates around the country."

Release the female surrogates!

David Axelrod, the Obama campaign's chief political strategist, said Mr. Obama would not raise questions about Ms. Palin's experience [gee, I wonder why?]. Mr. Axelrod said the campaign would work instead to impress upon voters the seriousness of the race.

Yeah, sweetie! This race is too serious for a woman. Stand back and worship The Obama.

And then I see he's also playing, yet again, the implicit race card straw man.

"I know that I’m not your typical presidential candidate," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told executives and employees of the Schott glass company Friday afternoon, "and I just want to be honest with you. I know that."

Huh?

what they’re really saying is, 'We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.'

"Just making stuff up," Obama said

Dude, the evidence that you're hanging around radicals, unrepentent radicals, people who bomb government buildings and regret bombing more of them... the evidence is fairly clear.

It's not about "Muslim connections", dude. That dog won't hunt.

17 winston06  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:56:23pm

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

18 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:57:12pm

YEC = Yippee, extra cannoli

19 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:58:05pm

lao stinky is a wise man.

20 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:58:12pm

As long as we are on religion this is off topic but should clear up another rumor circulating. The Jewish Community in Alaska should know her best. :

Excerpt for JP......
The choice left the two Jewish congressman reported to be on the list of possible VPs - Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman - out of luck, but several politically active Alaskan Jews praised Palin's ties to the community.

"The Jewish community should be very excited that Sarah was selected. She has been very conscious of the Jewish community here in Alaska and now with the opportunity of her new position, she'll have the opportunity to look at the Jewish community globally," said Alaskan Republican Jewish Coalition member Terry Gorlick, who knows Palin well and has worked with her on several issues.

"Sarah's absolutely pro-Israel," he said, referring to conversations with her and comments she's made about Israel's security and its importance to the United States. He noted that as governor she signed a resolution honoring Israel for its 60th birthday.

Alaska¹s AIPAC chairman, David Gottstein, said that he had spoken to the governor about arranging a trip to Israel, but scheduling conflicts had kept it from happening to date.

"She has ties and interests in the Holy Land," said Gottstein, and also described her as someone who could be effective across party lines, noting that he worked well with her despite being a Democrat.

Anchorage Chabad Rabbi Yosef Greenberg. He recalled Palin's support for a Jewish museum he is building there and her hora lessons at the annual Jewish gala she has attended the last two years.

Greenberg also spoke of her reaction to giving birth to a child with special needs. "She said, 'God doesn't give you something you can't handle,'" he said. "It was straight out of the Lubavitch book."
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

21 beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:00pm
22 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:01pm

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

23 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:07pm

Any serious attempts at pushing creationism at a national level will be met with a huge dose of reality.

24 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:32pm

re: #10 Charles

Please note: as always, I'm going to delete any comments telling me to stop posting about this topic.

Just a heads-up.

It's a damn shame you have to keep posting that disclaimer in any thread that even touches ID and/or evolution, just because some boneheads feel they know how to run LGF better than you.

25 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 5:59:42pm

OT: Have you guys seen the latest Palin smear attempt by DU? Thery're going crazy over some fabricated blogger story. Here's the link. They're really hitting the bottom of the barrel this time.

26 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:00:48pm

re: #10 Charles


I tell ya Charles....
I don't really care. Long as she doesn't force the schools to see it her way I just don't care.

We have dem's in schools who think NOTHING of babies and tell 17 yr olds that killing them is no big deal.

Now that I care about.

Sorry!

27 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:00:56pm

Good evening, Lizards.

I usually stay away from these threads because I find the line between anticreationism and antireligion sometimes blurs in the comments.

However, this group, Answers in Genesis, is really scary. Accusing those who teach science objectively (you know, scientifically) of being atheists--clearly hardly a step away from evil in their eyes--is just wrong.

28 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:13pm

Just putting it out there again:

Catholics and Evolution

Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God"

The Catholic Church has no fear of science or scientific discovery.

29 Cicero05  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:35pm

Whatever the rest of you say, it's still turtles all the way down.

30 Duane  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:38pm

Thank G-d I am Catholic!

31 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:39pm

Well, I believe that a Creator started everything and guided evolution.
The Chabad rabbis where I go to shul say the Earth was created 5768 years ago, but it was already billions of years old when it was created. They know what I believe, and they don't throw me out.

But while some scientists claim that science proves there isn't a Creator, their arguments are just as religious as the ID people. Science cannot at this time prove or disprove whether there was a Creator or not. Someone who believes there isn't a Creator should be asked for the experimental results, or other scientific evidence, and when he gives some, ask "How would this be different if there were a Creator?"
If he answers "the same" or doesn't answer, then we have disproven his theory that there isn't a Creator.
And this is why I think it is fine for the subject to come up in discussion in a science class, and be left with "Science doesn't answer this. Discuss it with your parents and religious authorities."

32 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:42pm

re: #17 winston06
Scientists themselves say that something cannot be created from nothing. Twist, turn, and equivocate all you like- in the meantime Christians will be putting their faith in and worshiping a Creator who put this all together in 6 days, whether that means 6 24-hour days or 6 10-million days.
Now...where's that FNDT?

33 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:01:43pm

re: #17 winston06

I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

It's an anti-intellectual movement and it's hard to get a grip on. There was an Islamic scholar named Al-Gizahli (sp?) arounf the 11th century who questioned the empirical knowledge and logic of the ancient Greek philosophers because they didn't account for the "perfect wisdom" of the Quran. His ideas caught on and plague the Muslim world to this day. That's what's going on here; they are opting for a dogmatic literal interpretation of scripture over observable reality. It's a lifestyle choice.

34 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:02:10pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

My father's mother was like this about everything. Dad decided that the only way to live "with" her was to live on the opposite side of the continent from her. They are both hyper-self-righteous and hyper-defensive -- not easy people to be around.

35 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:02:11pm

re: #20 Nancy

As long as we are on religion this is off topic but should clear up another rumor circulating. The Jewish Community in Alaska should know her best. :

Excerpt for JP......
The choice left the two Jewish congressman reported to be on the list of possible VPs - Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman - out of luck, but several politically active Alaskan Jews praised Palin's ties to the community.

"The Jewish community should be very excited that Sarah was selected. She has been very conscious of the Jewish community here in Alaska and now with the opportunity of her new position, she'll have the opportunity to look at the Jewish community globally," said Alaskan Republican Jewish Coalition member Terry Gorlick, who knows Palin well and has worked with her on several issues.

"Sarah's absolutely pro-Israel," he said, referring to conversations with her and comments she's made about Israel's security and its importance to the United States. He noted that as governor she signed a resolution honoring Israel for its 60th birthday.

Alaska¹s AIPAC chairman, David Gottstein, said that he had spoken to the governor about arranging a trip to Israel, but scheduling conflicts had kept it from happening to date.

"She has ties and interests in the Holy Land," said Gottstein, and also described her as someone who could be effective across party lines, noting that he worked well with her despite being a Democrat.

Anchorage Chabad Rabbi Yosef Greenberg. He recalled Palin's support for a Jewish museum he is building there and her hora lessons at the annual Jewish gala she has attended the last two years.

Greenberg also spoke of her reaction to giving birth to a child with special needs. "She said, 'God doesn't give you something you can't handle,'" he said. "It was straight out of the Lubavitch book."
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

There are jews in Alaska? How do you cook Moose kosher?

36 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:03:17pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

It never ceases to amaze me how religio-centric these YEC are in damning anyone to hell who doesn't read Genesis the way they do, as well as condemning non-Christians, who they do not have the right to damn or judge. I think these people might wind up shocked when Jesus and/or God has harsh words for them later.

I can hear Him now
"It took me billions of years to get all this done, and you want to say it was so easy I could do it in 6 days?"

37 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:03:41pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

I profoundly believe in Creation. I don't pretend to know how; I only know that I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen.

This is not my opinion; this is my faith supported by a lifetime of Bible study and worship.

I hope you understand now, even if you don't agree.

38 Oingo Boingo  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:23pm

Gotta admit... I could really care less one way or the other about this.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:25pm

re: #27 goddessoftheclassroom

MWAH!

Play nice now.

40 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:28pm

re: #31 Kosh's Shadow

Well, I believe that a Creator started everything and guided evolution.

It really isn't hard is it ?

41 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:04:53pm
42 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:38pm

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

43 Purple Prose  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:57pm

You have to wonder why this issue of such life-or-death importance to some. A belief in God and an acceptance of the preponderance of scientific inquiry are not mutually exclusive. That is self-evident. So there is something else driving people who believe that the Bible has to be taken absolutely literally, in terms of creation date, creation sequence, and human lineages and life spans.

In the end, you are forced to conclude that it is fundamentalism, just as irrational and absolutist as Islamic fundamentalism, though less immediately and violently dangerous to others. Fundamentalists, whether they are Christian or Muslim or of any other creed, view anything - anything at all - that in any way casts any doubt on a literal interpretation of religious texts, whether it's the Bible or the Koran, as intolerable. It's not that they have thought about and considered what they read or are brainwashed into believing. They believe it without question. They have become automatons.

They view anything that is at variance to their dogma as a threat. Any accommodation, even just accepting that their religious texts may be morally and even generally true but not literally true when all observable facts and commonsense suggest that they cannot be literally true, is unthinkable. It is unthinkable because that would mean suddenly letting in the demon of doubt and independent thought. And once you let in that demon, all hell will break loose. It will be fornication and anarchy in the home and the streets.

There is another term for such vehement dogmatism that seeks to coerce others into believing or at least acting as though they believe the same thing: fascism. Don't think. Just accept and do, or be damned.

Fundamentalism, whether it is Christian or Muslim, is a form of fascism.

44 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:05:58pm

re: #16 DeliLama

obama is NOT going to be able to dredge up any democrat women who will be able to up stage sarah palin. they need to just stay out of her way.

45 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:03pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

MWAH!

Play nice now.

This seems serendipitous

46 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:07pm

re: #14 Former SSG

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.

On a scale of 1 to 10, including terrorism, war, abortion, economics, empowerment of women (YEAH SARAH), welfare, taxes, education (overall, inc. vouchers), this is kind of small potatoes to me.

Do you want Muslims to come into public schools and shove their beliefs on our origins down the throats of kids on your dime? Do you think they'll stop there?

47 least  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:11pm

We have much bigger and more important issues to deal with . . . anyway, someday we will all have all the questions answered and our world-views proven or disproven.
In the here and now, Sarah's got my vote (McCain can come along, too).

48 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:40pm

re: #6 taxfreekiller

One issue world, is a small world.

If you clamp down hard enough, it will all go away.

Well said. This is why there is no art in tyranny. No scholarship; no musical accomplishment, no athletic prowess.

Oh the tyrant can focus on an event or two but the whole system stifles and wilts.

49 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:45pm

re: #36 Kosh's Shadow

I can hear Him now
"It took me billions of years to get all this done, and you want to say it was so easy I could do it in 6 days?"

I just don't know who some people think they are dictating to God what He can or cannot do, how He did or did not create this universe, or mostly- who will or will not be going to hell. It is not their place to judge me or anyone else on the worth of our souls, and I think it's down right blasphemous.

50 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:06:50pm

re: #40 Jimash

It really isn't hard is it ?

I believe the Creator is on a permanent lunch break.

51 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:07:09pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

52 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #14 Former SSG

I hate to say this, but 2 points:

When I was a kid, and they taught something my folks disagreed with, we'd discuss, my folks would win, and that was that.


Same here.
Being the only Jewish family in an all Christian, all-white town it happened constantly, too.

53 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:10pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

Purging the ranks?

54 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:16pm

re: #42 Deaddog

...fire anyone who disagrees with you....

Care to provide a link on THAT!

55 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:08:57pm

re: #25 Guy_Montag

OT: Have you guys seen the latest Palin smear attempt by DU? Thery're going crazy over some fabricated blogger story. Here's the link. They're really hitting the bottom of the barrel this time.

Per the blog:

"...According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up..."

Always real convenient when names of the restaurant or the witness are omitted. The story goes on:

"...she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article..."

Apparently the writer forgets Gov Palins husband is part native Alaskan.

They are getting desperate.

56 Jimash  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:13pm

re: #50 onepistoffyid

Maybe so. I don't always go back to look after I plant a seed.
I still thank that creator for bothering to plant the seed and allowing me to be the fruit. LOL

57 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:13pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

58 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:17pm

re: #45 goddessoftheclassroom

This seems serendipitous

Just lay down there.
Sure, kick off your shoes.
Comfy?
Now, in your own words, ... how long have you been having these ....

59 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:21pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

So, what now we have to believe like you or somebody else wants us to believe or we get "purged" (and no, I'm not a creationist)?

60 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:28pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Yep, that Palin smear has been traced directly to DU and KOS. And now even Whoopie is running with it.

61 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:38pm

From Palin's comments it is quite clear that she advocates discussion and free speech in the classroom and does not expect creationism to be forced upon students in any way. Trying to cast her as someone who will push creationism when she is in the oval office is just stupid.

62 Hucbald  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:40pm

Thinking Christians can't help but wince when they encounter idiocy like that, which is why I call them Christo-tards... even though I'm a believer.

Stupid people need to be told that they are stupid so that they'll STFU.

63 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:46pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Nor did she ban any books.

64 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:52pm

A bitter sour grapes critique from Wasillia mom who knows Sarah Palin.

[Link: my2bucks.wordpress.com...]


My only points. True leaders absolutely have to fire some leaders from previous administrations who are unable to adjust to the new circumstances. To not do so is to have a weak administrations. Those many KoS Huffpo and this Wasilla mom complaining about Mayor and Gov Palin firing people are lacking understanding of leadership. Probably why they are disgruntled in the first place.

Trooper gate: Wasilla Mom Anne projects something devious goings on in with the state trooper and his supervisor. The previous Governor put this trooper on notice that his performance was not up to par. Far from it. He tasered his 10 year old son as a funny test of toughness. Anne seems to think this is all ok to sweep under the carpet in her analysis.

It's not a crime for a Mayor or a Governor to want high quality people in their administrations and to let go people who don't rise to their expectations.

I've worked in Government and especially at the director level and in the executive staff there is a high turn over ratio of employees. From burnout and from difference of direction.

65 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:09:58pm

Lao Stinky. Hmmmm, no doubt a forebearer of Stinky Beaumont.

66 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:13pm

re: #42 Deaddog

She is anything but what you've described.... but you just keep on truckin' dude..... everything will be a-okay.

67 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:39pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Piss off.

68 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:48pm

re: #51 goddessoftheclassroom

You are misinformed. She has never tried to get Creation taught in schools.

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

69 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:10:56pm

i saw the two big flood lights this evening, shining to the heavens from ground zero.
it really is almost like the twin towers are still there.
clouds float thru the beams. it's so surreal.
i can't believe it's almost 9-11 again.

70 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:24pm
71 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:32pm

re: #59 christheprofessor

So, what now we have to believe like you or somebody else wants us to believe or we get "purged" (and no, I'm not a creationist)?

Not at all, I respect all points of view, even those I disagree with.

72 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:32pm

re: #42 Deaddog


Troll.

73 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:36pm

re: #62 Hucbald

Thinking Christians can't help but wince when they encounter idiocy like that, which is why I call them Christo-tards... even though I'm a believer.

Stupid people need to be told that they are stupid so that they'll STFU.

Hucbald...How in the hell are you, lad?

74 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:11:40pm

re: #35 onepistoffyid

Sort of surprised me too but apparently there are and more than just a handful.

75 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:08pm

*sniff...sniff...sniff*

76 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:15pm

Actually I like this type of thread.

Being a Christian, I believe God was involved.
HOWEVER, in my Christian religion, the how and how long is a mystery (mysterion) that faith AND SCIENCE will show.

You actually can believe in both I think, at least to some degree.

I have no problem with God and evolution.
I also think God is into practical jokes.

Look at the duck-billed platypus

77 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:12:33pm

re: #42 Deaddog


CARE TO BACK THAT UP
With proof? or you just hoping for it?

78 Guy_Montag  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:03pm

re: #55 Outrider

Apparently the writer forgets Gov Palins husband is part native Alaskan.

They are getting desperate.

They are getting desperate, and the posters are DU are quite insane. I swing by there, whenever I get on AlGore's InfoWeb, to see what they're up to.

79 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:16pm

re: #71 onepistoffyid

Not at all, I respect all points of view, even those I disagree with.

Okay. Thanks!

80 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:24pm

re: #46 MandyManners

No, I am just saying that parents who talk to their kids can counter anything taught in school, including creationism or extremism. The only way to stop extremism in schools is at home. It is the disengaged parent who finds his children espousing rebellious doctrine. Many of the terrorists are from moderate homes; they were rebelling against moderation/modernity, and may not have if their parents were paying a little more attention.

81 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:31pm

ug, these "debates" over beliefs disturb me. Any belief can have an "-ism" tacked onto it, and the battle is on. None of us has the answers. Science hasn't unlocked the mysteries, and Christianity accepts God's word as truth - in faith. The answer lies in a combination of theories.....or it doesn't at all. This is relatively trivial compared to some serious issues needing attention today.
I guess I'll start the D in the FNDT whether it's time or not.

82 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:34pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

I'll ask the same of you... CARE TO BACK THAT UP!

83 kynna  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:36pm

re: #16 DeliLama

They seem to think that she's popular because she's a woman. "Oh, so they're playing the 'gender' card. I'll play ten thousand gender cards. Bwahaha!"

...a rapid response team is being created in Chicago to dispatch female surrogates around the country."

Release the female surrogates!

LOL! I'm picturing that race with all the women wearing stiletto heels.

84 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:13:57pm

Comments telling me not to post about this topic will be deleted, as will comments complaining about being deleted.

Continuing to complain is probably not a good idea.

85 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:11pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

This is a VERY diverse "choir" as you call it -- everything from atheists to believers in creation.

We operate on FACTS.

86 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:27pm

re: #52 mean Gene

It's hard to be different. :)

87 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:45pm

re: #68 Deaddog

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

Citation please?

88 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:46pm

I have relations who are in to this creed. They are fundamentalists, I am not. It was a split that happened long ago. They belong to the church, the church belongs to them. I can hear their voices in my head even as I type this. They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

89 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:48pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

You obviously seem incapable of either research or understanding the results of research. I would go back and reread what she has actually said and reread what her results as Mayor and Governor were and not get all your information from Sen Obamas talking points and the National Enquirer.

90 talon_262  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:14:59pm

re: #84 Charles

Comments telling me not to post about this topic will be deleted, as will comments complaining about being deleted.

Continuing to complain is probably not a good idea.

The USS Stinky Beaumont is on red alert!

;-P

91 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:00pm

re: #84 Charles

Wasn't it Lao Stinky that said "Strong smelling trolls will not blow all day"?

92 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:01pm

re: #54 WindHorse

...fire anyone who disagrees with you....

Care to provide a link on THAT!

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

93 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:31pm

re: #91 WindHorse

...or wind or something...?

94 kynna  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:32pm

re: #42 Deaddog

What an ill-informed little troll you are. Here's a tip. The KosKids are crazy and they lie. When you repeat their lies you seem as crazy as they are. Do some research and stop looking like a moron. Just some friendly lizard advice.

95 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:47pm

re: #65 Elcid

Lao Stinky. Hmmmm, no doubt a forebearer of Stinky Beaumont.

He's the one in the saffron robe, over yonder in the alcove.

96 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:15:49pm

re: #62 Hucbald

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

97 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:23pm

re: #79 christheprofessor

Okay. could say that about some of the paleo-lizards aat LGFs.

Whatever gets you through the night, just don' expect me to agree with you.

98 patrickafir  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:24pm

haha Release the hounds on these backward anti-science lackwits, Smithers!

99 Beholden[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:31pm
100 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:40pm

Full moon?

101 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:16:42pm

re: #80 Former SSG

No, I am just saying that parents who talk to their kids can counter anything taught in school, including creationism or extremism. The only way to stop extremism in schools is at home. It is the disengaged parent who finds his children espousing rebellious doctrine. Many of the terrorists are from moderate homes; they were rebelling against moderation/modernity, and may not have if their parents were paying a little more attention.

My parents were pretty attentive but, I wound up being a Communist in college.

But, that's beside my point. I'm saying that CAIR and their ilk are watching this debate very closely. We cannot allow religion into our public schools at all.

102 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:10pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

I believe it is deaddog who is spouting talking points and dis proven rumors.
Opinions are respected in here,though if you use accusations to support your opinions we like to see links.

103 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:20pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you, but I see you angered some of the echo chamber choir , careful lest you be branded a MOBY or TROLL (aka somebody who doesn't agree with The Choir).

Piss off.

104 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:21pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

Full moon?

September 15th.

105 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:41pm

re: #37 goddessoftheclassroom
You are awesome...

106 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:43pm

re: #92 Deaddog

I think the last line of that article rings the truest..... and btw.... how does this translate into "fire anyone who disagrees with you"?

One, weak link?

107 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:17:54pm

re: #37 goddessoftheclassroom

I profoundly believe in Creation. I don't pretend to know how; I only know that I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen.

This is not my opinion; this is my faith supported by a lifetime of Bible study and worship.

I hope you understand now, even if you don't agree.

I completely agree with you on Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and earth. How long it took Him, I have not a clue, nor is it relevant to me.

My Dad is a Biblical translation consultant. Published. Genesis was included, like all books in the Bible, by man. Why? They were considered 'inspired by God'. Should Genesis be taken literally? That would not be wise, given what we know. Do I fret that people take it literally? No - so long as they don't insist I do so, or my kids do so, in a public school format.

108 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:00pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

Full moon?

Dank mists are drifting in off the moors.
Hear that? It's the baying of the Pooka Hound.

109 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:30pm

re: #92 Deaddog

TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

Oh yeah, that is really conclusive.
Not.

110 LEGION  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:32pm

Wow- a dead thread already- Bring back the convention! How about them JETS? Anything to eat around here? Whats on tv? yawn.

111 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:43pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

Now that's surprising. I woulda thunk you would enjoy that slur...

112 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:45pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

Dear Lord, Killgore! Christianity is NOT monolithic--there are "many mansions," if you will. There is not one voice that speaks for all Christians. Individual denominations have their own views on the matter.

113 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:46pm

Woe unto you, Scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."
J.C.
I don't trust fanatical religious leaders too.

Power to the Correct People!

114 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:47pm

And with respect to McCain's previous 'teach the controversy' stance we have:

[Link: www.heardworld.com...]

That stance has been modified out of political necessity. But it's clear where his sentiments lie, and they're not with science on this one.

115 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:53pm

re: #97 onepistoffyid

I have no idea what that meant...

116 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:56pm

re: #85 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is a VERY diverse "choir" as you call it -- everything from atheists to believers in creation.

We operate on FACTS.

I don't know, I have some major welts from previous posts on Palin....I still think she is a dud. But believe me, McCain could have nominated a house plant and I still would vote for him, because Obama just scares me to death.

117 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:18:58pm

re: #92 Deaddog

You fool... It's ONE person pinion!

Can you back it up with facts!

118 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:04pm

Use "reply" not quote, you know the saying... lest it stick to thy face.

119 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:09pm

re: #88 rawmuse

I have relations who are in to this creed. They are fundamentalists, I am not. It was a split that happened long ago. They belong to the church, the church belongs to them. I can hear their voices in my head even as I type this. They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

You might want to remind them that scientists are the ones who've come up with the early warning system that saves lives in tornados.

120 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:21pm

re: #22 onepistoffyid

Sign me up for hell...and Charles, this is your blog...write whatever you want....maybe you need do a purge of some of the paleo-lizards that lurk in the weeds....

I respect your opinion.. but GET OUT!
Thats what it appears you are actually saying .

121 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:19:29pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

That's really unfair.

122 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:01pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

Yup.
She personally e-mailed me with talking points.
I ignored them. I did that to force her to show up personally.

/hope, hope, hope ...

[insert name here] demanding [target] to [pick subject] or [insert ultimatum]... check.

123 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:02pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

you sound angry.

124 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:13pm

Well that settles it for me. It's painfully obvious she is just an atheist disguised in christian clothing, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let an atheist get in the White House. :sigh: Guess I'm gonna hafta vote for Obama now.

/s

125 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:25pm

re: #115 christheprofessor

I have no idea what that meant...

Tell you the truth, neither do I, but I still respect your incorrect creationist ideology.

126 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:26pm

re: #112 goddessoftheclassroom


Christianity is NOT monolithic


Strawman. I never said it was.

127 negativ  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:28pm

Atum arose from the primordial waters (Neith), and masturbated to relieve his loneliness. His semen and breath became Tefnut (moisture) and Shu (dryness), respectively. From Shu and Tefnut, were born Geb (earth), and Nut (sky), who were born in a state of permanent copulation. Shu separated them, and their children were Ausare (Osiris; death), Set (desert), Aset (Isis; life), and Nebet Het (Nephthys; fertile land). Osiris and Isis were a couple, as were Nepthys and Set.

Anyone who doubts this is true is probably an atheist or a liberal, whichever is the most horrible epithet in your opinion at the moment. Or maybe both!

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY! LET 14 YEAR-OLDS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!

Note: When you understand why you dismiss the Atum story out-of-hand, you will be one step closer to understanding why lots of people dismiss the creation story of the Abrahamic religions out-of-hand.

128 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:32pm

re: #109 wintercat

TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

Oh yeah, that is really conclusive.
Not.

Um, can you understand the difference between 'advocating censorship' (which she clearly did) and 'getting something censored' (which fortunately didn't happen)? She. Advocated. Censorship. It's really quite simple.

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:38pm

Meanwhile, there are also those who will come into the host's living room, put muddy shoes up on the upholstery, call out loudly for a beer, then bitch when it isn't cold enough.

130 Mr Spiffy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:39pm

The Yankees are the greatest team in baseball.
All of my childhood heroes were Yankees.
The Yankees suck.

Can I get my Cre-winist badge now or must I wait for the Dar-ationist version?

131 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:20:55pm

Jesus H. Christ, in a chicken basket...the Hucbald. :).

132 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:07pm

re: #116 onepistoffyid


SHE's a dud... care to talk about Obama or do nothing Biden?

133 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:21pm

re: #121 Sharmuta

That's really unfair.


His persistent use of 'cracker' merits the response.

134 docremulac  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:28pm

I hope Sarah does what other Republicans seem too dim to do, that is: instead of invoking the name of Reagan like a parrot without really copying what he did right, study how he dealt with these issues so successfully.

Reagan was a religious guy who put this stuff on the back burner while he dealt with the most pressing issues at hand. He had an economy that had been ruined by 4 years of a Democrat congress and Presidency. He also had a world where the Democrat policies had allowed the Communist hoard to take over more than half the population of the planet. He had a battle to fight and he didn't let the Democrats pick the debate points.

It's a Democrat policy to take the issues of abortion and creationism and make the Republicans answer to them as if they're the only issues the American people care about. This is because they're issues that so many Americans side with the Democrats on. Palin needs to slap this stuff down and say: "Wherever you stand on these issues, they're not of paramount importance at this time. We're dealing with 1- Keeping freedom safe from fanatical islam and 2- developing energy resources that don't fund fanatical islam and wreck our economy.

The other stuff shouldn't take away from work being done on these real issues. Abortion isn't going anywhere and America's schools aren't all of a sudden going to turn a 180 degree on what they teach in their curriculum so let's not take time away from the issues that are effecting all of us right now, every day.

135 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:37pm

re: #68 Deaddog

Oh, horse hockey. Both she and McCain are on the record waffling about 'teaching the controversy.' When, of course, there is no scientific controversy just a manufactured political one. They both know they can be get burned on this, but they play both sides of the fence. If you 'teach the controversy' you are of necessity teaching that there is some legitimacy to Creationism. I have no respect for that.

Where is this "record" found? Or is this another case of not specifically mentioning they are against teaching creationism ergo they must support it?

136 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:21:55pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

Light is the Creation. The fumbling blocks work out in the science of evolution. Yec'rs believe evolution hasn't existed for billions of years. The majority of religious people who believe that God created the Universe also believe in evolution. They don't make the distinctions we make in the blog here. That required further publicity and talk.

Biologists shouldn't allow themselves to be drawn into disussions of the Origins of life and the universe or the endings. That is the equvilancy door for the Yec'rs to work their way into the educational system. Give Yecism a dewey decimal number and keep it there.

Time for mortals is an infinite measurement. If there is a God, time is probably just a divine tool.

137 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:08pm

re: #106 WindHorse

I think the last line of that article rings the truest..... and btw.... how does this translate into "fire anyone who disagrees with you"?

One, weak link?

I do believe that is one more link than you have shown, yes?

138 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:20pm

re: #128 Deaddog

um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?

139 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:29pm

re: #123 WindHorse

you sound angry.

I think it is my avatar and handle that give you that impression, I am actually one of the nicest guys you would ever want to meet....and I love creationists and evangelicals, I just don't agree with them. I love them mainly because they don't want to kill me because I am jewish. That gives me a nice feeling inside.

140 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:30pm

re: #105 HoosierHoops

You are too kind.

My Lizard-in-Training is now in 11th grade. the first unit of World Literature is creation myths. He told me he was reading several cultures' versions, "even Genesis."

Of course I had to reply, "But that one's not a myth."

With that exasperated look that seems to be hard-wired in teens, he said, "Don't start, Mom."

141 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:43pm

After 100 posts - OT:

Gerry Ferraro on Hannity/Skeletor - I'll just betcha she's gonna pull the McCain/Palin lever come November.

142 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:44pm

re: #101 MandyManners

I don't know - the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion. Should we not teach any moral or ethical stuff, in case it traces back to a particular religion?

Slippery slope or not, I think this one needs to be left behind by big government, and relegated to local government, like pron standards, or something. :)

143 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:22:51pm

re: #76 nightintheruts

Even Quatum physicists say the two are not contradictory.

144 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:11pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Again,,, proof or zip it.

145 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:13pm

re: #133 experiencedtraveller

I don't see how that's equivalent to thinking Christians are retarded and approving the use of the term "Christo-tard".

146 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:15pm

re: #88 rawmuse

They would say that these scientists aren't going to be there for them when they have to plan a funeral or rebuild someone's house after a tornado wipes it off the face of the earth, or visit a dying elder, or even bring over a casserole after the ball game.

They are good people. Like Ms. Palin said, they grow our crops, build our towns and fight our wars.

? They seem like awfully judgemental people to. Scientists are folk like anyone else. They develop our technology, create new drugs, teach our kids...

147 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:17pm

re: #137 Deaddog

wow, you can count too!

I think I have a dog bone here....

148 Beholden  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:18pm

People who believe in creationism are not necessarily anti-science. I am open minded to the possibility that creation happened. Just as I am open minded to the science that surrounds us.

149 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:40pm

re: #147 WindHorse

oh nevermind, I see you don't really need one...

150 DeliLama  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:48pm

Charles Darwin is my hero, not the famous old Charles Darwin, but the young bible quoting creationist with an open mind and an obession for observing nature. It's easy in hindsight to agree with the fact of evolution: at this point, let's face it, evolution is fact. There may still be new wrinkles in how it takes place, but evolution itself is not in question. But Darwin himself set out on a long journey of discovery and allowed the facts to lead him wherever they may. Most people can't do that. They're not willing to toss out and rebuild big chunks of their preconcieved notions, especially ones that are deep in their fundamental religious beliefs

I believe it's asking a lot to expect everyone to accept the reality of evolution. Because of how our religion itself evolved, the facts of evolution can cause a lot of damage to a lot of people's foundations of beliefs. This is why creationists push back so much. They want to have a safe place to live out their lives without dealing with the inconsistencies. If you destroy their religion, they lose the compass that keeps their bearings.

On the other hand, if creationists want to push their agenda on the rest of us, they need to be prepared for the brutal rules of the playing field of science. We won't bend or suspend those rules just to make these people happy. Science has a very long history of incredible success. It has solved so many of the physical world problems of humanity, that its validity is simply not in question. The creationists have attempted to play on that playing field and have consistently lost. They should feel free to regroup and try again, but good luck with that.

Render unto science that which is physical. Render unto religion that which is metaphysical.

151 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:23:49pm

re: #132 Dustoff-507

SHE's a dud... care to talk about Obama or do nothing Biden?

They are much worse. McCain has my vote...I just think there were better choices than Palin, is that ok?

152 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:09pm

Deaddog, great nic. Irony forthcoming.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:20pm

re: #142 Former SSG

the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion.


How many of the !0 Commandments actually deal with morality?

154 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:21pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.


I think you ARE a jerk. Not increasingly, mind you. Just a right up and front center jerk.

155 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:24pm

re: #125 onepistoffyid

Tell you the truth, neither do I, but I still respect your incorrect creationist ideology.

Dude, put down the crack pipe and get some fresh air! I specifically stated in my first post to you (#59 above) that I am not a creationist.

156 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:34pm
157 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:35pm

re: #152 The Shadow Do

Deaddog, great nic. Irony forthcoming.

Hands off Deaddog!

158 mean Gene  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:24:50pm

re: #127 negativ

Re your little creation story:
It brought back memories.
See, we had lots of creation stories told to us in public school in the 1950's-to-60's.
Often times I, as the only Jew in the school, was put on the spot to spout the ''Old Testament'' stories to the whole class.

159 wintercat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:07pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Um, you pompus asswipe. Can you comprehend the difference between asking a question and advocating?

The stories are all suggestive, but facts are hard to come by. Did Palin actually ban books at the Wasilla Public Library?

Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

160 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:16pm

re: #141 Intrepid


I think your right... she is so pissed of by Obama.

I have a good LIB friend in NY and even she say's up.... going the other way!

161 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:16pm

re: #155 christheprofessor

Dude, put down the crack pipe and get some fresh air! I specifically stated in my first post to you (#59 above) that I am not a creationist.

Sorry my mistake, and it is actually a bong filled with tequila.....

162 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:25pm

re: #139 onepistoffyid

I actually said that because of your username.... as a joke.

I just think that it was slightly unfair of you to lump everyone together like you did in comment #57

163 Wendya  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:28pm
biblical creation should not be forced into classrooms, specifically because science teachers with a strong belief in evolution would teach creation poorly, so it would ultimately be counterproductive for the students.

Uh, yeah.... and that would be because they are science teachers. I don't want someone with a degree in religious studies teaching chemistry either.

164 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:34pm

re: #95 pre-Boomer Marine brat

He's the one in the saffron robe, over yonder in the alcove.

Yes, yes now I see...Where before I was blind. Smell the incense, or whatever that funny stuff is...Momma Told Me Not to Come. Frome the profi Prophet of Three Dog's.

165 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:35pm

re: #17 winston06

How could any one believe in Creation? I have no problem with personal opinion but look there are moutains of evidence about the age and shape of our planet and universe. What do they say about the light that is being emitted from stars that could be dead by now and we're seeing their light? I have a hard time understanding those who believe in Creation.

(Tried to post earlier but SBCGlobal DSL cut me off. Moral: find a new ISP.)

It's not "Creation" we have a problem with; there are plenty of people here on LGF who believe in God as Creator (myself included). We have a problem with the denial of natural explanations for the world in which we live, which was labeled "Creationism" by those who do that.

166 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:25:47pm

re: #138 WindHorse

um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?

Wow. I don't even know how to answer that. My hat is off to you. You have defeated your own argument. Self goal.

167 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:00pm

re: #151 onepistoffyid


OK, spit them out....

168 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:06pm

re: #162 WindHorse

I actually said that because of your username.... as a joke.

I just think that it was slightly unfair of you to lump everyone together like you did in comment #57

sorry...but hey, it is Friday night, what the hell...

169 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:39pm

re: #116 onepistoffyid

I don't know, I have some major welts from previous posts on Palin....I still think she is a dud. But believe me, McCain could have nominated a house plant and I still would vote for him, because Obama just scares me to death.

Mine was a very general statement, replying just to what you'd written in tha particular comment. No offense meant. Just a litle bit of a relative newcomer's perspective.

As I was told last fall. It's a tough room. But even those who greatly disagree will come to the defense of people on the opposite side. We respect those who agree to disagree with us.

/rambling off

170 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:47pm

re: #161 onepistoffyid


NOT winning any points here.

171 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:26:54pm

re: #92 Deaddog

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

re: #142 Former SSG

I don't know - the 10 commandments are good ethical rules, and pretty inclusive. Some moral teachings transcend religion. Should we not teach any moral or ethical stuff, in case it traces back to a particular religion?

Slippery slope or not, I think this one needs to be left behind by big government, and relegated to local government, like pron standards, or something. :)

Educational standards are set at a local level but, I do not want Islam sneaking in at any place.

172 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:20pm

A national politician with all the modern problems at hand is well advised to keep the debate polite in terms of abortion rights and creationism. Make sure all sides get heard and can work themselves our to some agreeable compromise.

Some of the yec'rs will have to be beat down in court.

Let Roe vs. Wade stand or be modified. But let woman choose. Set a good example like Sarah Palin has done so far. And people will choose.

The office will make her wiser.

173 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:21pm

re: #146 Jim D

You are right about that. They don't judge, but they have been taught that Judgement has already been passed on sinners (which is all of us).
The jury has been sent home.

But there is Appeal.

174 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:23pm

re: #166 Deaddog

ok, you can count but you can't think.... that's alright.

175 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:30pm

re: #128 Deaddog

Um, can you understand the difference between 'advocating censorship' (which she clearly did) and 'getting something censored' (which fortunately didn't happen)? She. Advocated. Censorship. It's really quite simple.

Do you know the titles of the books she wanted taken out of the children's section of the library?

Neither do I, nor does anyone else.

What if there were explicit sex education books in the section for 8 year olds? Would most parents of 8 year olds NOT be up in arms about this?

We don't know enough about this "scandal" to form opinions one way or another. We only have the word of an ex-librarian who has a story to tell, and she's telling it to whoever will listen.

I'll wait for facts.

176 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:27:33pm

re: #166 Deaddog


SO should we have XXX in our schools?

177 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:28:26pm

I keep staring at my keyboard but I just can't find the 'welt' key.

178 Rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:28:46pm

A geologist (and creationist) acqaintance of mine once told me that "I don't need to believe there ever was a 'Permian Time' in order to find oil in 'Permian' rocks. As a geologist myself, I felt like I had been slapped in the face with a cold, wet Coelacanth...what rubbish.

179 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:14pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Nor did she ban any books.

What's the story on the "ban the books" subject?
I've seen the accusations, but no linkeys. The librarian isn't talking, at least according to the usually reliable MSM.
I know there is a "factual letter" written by one of the ten protesters that personally accuses her of that, but I'm not sure how much credence to give to that source -- "one of ten brave ...".
I stumbled across an official (Alaska newspaper) story that she made inquiries about removing some material, and dropped the issue when she was told there could be no legal basis to do that.

I'd like to know what books or materials were bothering her.
Since it was a "hick town of less than 5000 people", I can think of a few things that would bother me personally under those conditions, and that wouldn't be books on evolution, creation, and so forth. Not enough "skin".

180 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:15pm

re: #170 Dustoff-507

NOT winning any points here.

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

181 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:29:33pm

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the cannoli.
2: And the cannoli was without filling, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the cannoli tube. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the cannoli.
3: And God said, Let there be ricotta! and there was ricotta.
4: And God saw the ricotta, that it was good: and God divided the ricotta from the cannoli tube.
5: And God called the ricotta "Filling", and the tube he called "Tube". And the evening and the morning were the first day.

182 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:11pm

re: #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Meanwhile, there are also those who will come into the host's living room, put muddy shoes up on the upholstery, call out loudly for a beer, then bitch when it isn't cold enough.

Even worse, they commence to pee in the corner behind the sofa.

183 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:12pm

re: #178 Rockman

A geologist (and creationist) acqaintance of mine once told me that "I don't need to believe there ever was a 'Permian Time' in order to find oil in 'Permian' rocks. As a geologist myself, I felt like I had been slapped in the face with a cold, wet Coelacanth...what rubbish.

Hey Rockman, meet another geologist lizard! paleodepositional facies and foraminefera baby!

184 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:33pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

I dunno - not killing, not coveting, being respectful of your parents (elders), there's some moral stuff there. My nun-teachers would explain it better :)

185 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:33pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

DUDE.... it's like pulling teeth with you...
Who do you think would be a better VP?

186 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:49pm

re: #140 goddessoftheclassroom

hard-wired in teens

I was never like that.

/screaming and ripping off burning pants

187 Cartman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:52pm

re: #157 onepistoffyid

Hands off Deaddog!

Sorry, pal. All those who spout nonsense here are fair dame.

188 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:57pm

Michael Moore on CNN...what a wind bag pig!

189 FrogMarch  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:57pm

Hi all. Has this been posted yet? probably - but just in case.

[Link: ap.google.com...]

190 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:30:59pm

re: #69 nyc redneck

i saw the two big flood lights this evening, shining to the heavens from ground zero.
it really is almost like the twin towers are still there.
clouds float thru the beams. it's so surreal.
i can't believe it's almost 9-11 again.

That is what I thought I saw as a background picture when Rudy gave his speech at the RNC.

191 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:21pm

re: #160 Dustoff-507

I think your right... she is so pissed of by Obama.

I have a good LIB friend in NY and even she say's up.... going the other way!

Wonder how many are out there who are just like your friend?

192 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:32pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Strawman. I never said it was.

You said:

Although I can't endorse the term "Christo-tards" I think it's important that if Christianity wants to survive they are going to have to keep their own house clean.

"House" is singular. That is how I understood you to mean that you thought Christianity was "monolithic," metaphorically "one idea written in stone."

If I mistook your meaning, I'm sorry, but my interpretation was reasonable given your choice of words, and to accuse me of using a strawman is not fair.

193 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:45pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

and what were YOU playing with? GAS

194 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:31:59pm

re: #185 Dustoff-507

DUDE.... it's like pulling teeth with you...
Who do you think would be a better VP?

Ridge....I live in PA and he was great....very strong on defense....Ridge is the man....he should run for president.

195 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:32:26pm

re: #191 Intrepid

Have NO idea, but NY is so LIB I'm shocked

196 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:32:34pm

re: #92 Deaddog

Sure.

[Link: www.adn.com...]


Not much of a cite for facts, she inquired about the legality and then did nothing. The proposed list has a book that was not published until 2000 and this all occurred in mid-late 90s. OK...... now what?


Mark

197 Osama Bin Asshat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:04pm

up 5 pts b/f Palin? whoooow!

198 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:07pm

re: #161 onepistoffyid

Sorry my mistake, and it is actually a bong filled with tequila.....

No worries. Check this out, you'll probably like it (particularly near the end)...

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:12pm

re: #177 jaunte

I keep staring at my keyboard but I just can't find the 'welt' key.

OMG!
What are you thinking of doing?!

200 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:14pm

re: #158 mean Gene

Re your little creation story:
It brought back memories.
See, we had lots of creation stories told to us in public school in the 1950's-to-60's.
Often times I, as the only Jew in the school, was put on the spot to spout the ''Old Testament'' stories to the whole class.

You poor thing.
I hope you did well.

Didja get the "oil came from crushed dinosaurs"?
That one has had me baffled for years.

201 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:20pm

re: #187 Cartman

Sorry, pal. All those who spout nonsense here are fair dame.

Absolutely. So far, I have given references to back up my statements, and just because I think that it actually says something about leadership to (a) advocate censorship (true as far as anyone can tell) and (b) advocate 'teaching the [non-existent] controversy," I am excoriated. Shrug. I don't have to sing with the choir, I can make up my own mind, I can back up my own statements. That's why I post here. The words speak for themselves, both mine and others.

202 Tigger2005  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:24pm

re: #32 RubyTuesday

Scientists themselves say that something cannot be created from nothing.

But the Bible says God created something from nothing. Are you doubting God's power?

And is God something? If so, where did God come from? What was there before there was God?

And actually, you're wrong ... scientists don't say something can't come from nothing.

203 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:39pm

re: #142 Former SSG
Inclusive? The first four have nothing to do with ethics, just worshiping god.

204 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:33:56pm

Christotards. Atheistards.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

205 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:00pm

Truly mature and responsible leaders are able to separate to some degree their personal feelings from the duties of their office. I think Gov. Palin is able to do just that.

Personally, while there is some evidence that evolution could have occurred, I have not seen any evidence that requires that interpretation alone. I neither believe nor disbelieve evolution. That said, science class is about teaching inquiry, research, investigation and coming up with the most probable explanation given the answers and results. Belief in Creation (and of a "Designer") cannot live up to this standard. So although I believe there is a Creator—who is almost entirely unlike Star Trek's/William Shatner's entity—I don't think creation is a subject for science classes. While I believe theistic evolution is a real possibility, atheistic creationism (or Intelligent Design) is an impossibility. Teach science—truth has no fear of inquiry or facts.

So, I am consigned to hell by these people because I refuse to say that a word for word literal interpretation of Genesis or the rest of the Bible is the only option. I wish the people at answersingenesis the best for you are taking a very dangerous position in your zeal.

206 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:08pm

re: #194 onepistoffyid


Nice, but the dem's beat him to death. Having Plain, eats away at the Billary vote. Un-like the dem's we really put a woman foward...
Plus she is a fighter. Ridge was not

207 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:34:46pm

re: #182 Outrider

Even worse, they commence to pee in the corner behind the sofa.

THAT WAS THE CAT THAT DID THAT, NOT ME -- I SAW THE WHOLE THING !

208 Elcid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:08pm

re: #181 godfrey

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the cannoli.
2: And the cannoli was without filling, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the cannoli tube. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the cannoli.
3: And God said, Let there be ricotta! and there was ricotta.
4: And God saw the ricotta, that it was good: and God divided the ricotta from the cannoli tube.
5: And God called the ricotta "Filling", and the tube he called "Tube". And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Hazelnut Cream, wonderful filling for the sacred cannoli.

209 Tigger2005  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #42 Deaddog

I dunno, Palin is looking more and more like that crazy Mom you sometimes see at PTA meetings who is always trying to get the school to do exactly what she wants: teach Creation, check; censor books, check; fire anyone who disagrees with you, check. She may or may not have the right stuff as far as McCain is concerned, but she increasingly seems like someone who is a jerk.

What, did you get a MoveOn.org e-mail and just accept everything it said at face value?

210 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:40pm

re: #193 Dustoff-507

and what were YOU playing with? GAS

heh
it was a play on "liar liar pants on fire"

211 greenmiler  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:46pm

I think Palin knows what can and can't be done with his/her position, unlike Jindal. Its a moot point though, I ain't votin for "the One"

212 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:53pm

re: #201 Deaddog

Untrue. Asking how someone would feel if they were asked to remove books is not advocating. Do you have a sourced quote where she advocates banning any books in particular?

/suspect not since that would be nat'l news by now. If this is all the left has, you best be worrying..

213 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:55pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I was never like that.

/screaming and ripping off burning pants

I love "deferring to their wisdom from a few years back".
Then I recite the entire list of stuff that didn't work, and suggest they add something new that won't work, either.

214 patrickafir  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:35:58pm

re: #189 FrogMarch

Hi Frog. Good story – thanks.

215 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:03pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

216 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:20pm

re: #201 Deaddog

NOPE... you've posted ( hear-say) not facts.

217 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:28pm

re: #184 Former SSG

You're looking at 50% tops (and that's being generous).

218 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #143 Nancy

yes, my son was studying some type of quantum physics in some engineering studies.
He was telling me about it but after about 5 minutes all my brain heard was "wah wah wah wah wah"
Went right over my neanderthal brain = )

219 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #215 Lynn B.

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

Zogby.

220 mailmars  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:36:56pm

re: #114 Deaddog

And with respect to McCain's previous 'teach the controversy' stance we have:

[Link: www.heardworld.com...]

That stance has been modified out of political necessity. But it's clear where his sentiments lie, and they're not with science on this one.

Not really.... It is only clear if you "fit it" into a predesigned box.

221 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:02pm

re: #210 pre-Boomer Marine brat

LOL

222 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:29pm

Killgore, what are you going on about?

223 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:37:54pm

I served on a public library board for 25 years. There are always patrons who might appear to ask that certain material be banned or looked into.

Ours was a district library so direct taxing body. A Municipal library, they would appear before the Mayor and board or town council. Just because the Chair -which in that case would be the Major --would bring the request to the attention of the Librarian doesn't MEAN even advocating or suggesting that the books be banned.

And the situation in question is was a group of citizens that requested it, bringing it to the Mayor and council.

She was doing her JOB not acting on any of her personal beliefs. As Mayor, it was her office that was funding the municipal library and it was the mayor and council where any citizens would bring objections.

224 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:00pm

re: #206 Dustoff-507

Nice, but the dem's beat him to death. Having Plain, eats away at the Billary vote. Un-like the dem's we really put a woman foward...
Plus she is a fighter. Ridge was not

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

225 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:05pm

re: #183 onepistoffyid

You mean you study the superficial detritus that obscures the early paleozoic and precambrian crystalline rocks?
:)

226 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:19pm

re: #212 Thanos

Untrue. Asking how someone would feel if they were asked to remove books is not advocating.

I'm sorry, do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

227 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:39pm

re: #215 Lynn B.

In what universe was McCain up 5 points at any time before this week?

/I'll have some of what you're smokin'

I am pretty sure he was up 5 points prior to the election....I read that somewhere.....puff....

228 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:38:53pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

Zogby.

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

229 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:09pm

re: #47 least


We have much bigger and more important issues to deal with . . .

Exactly! This AiG, the Disco Institute, and all like-minded organizations should be focusing their power, influence, trial lawyers, and immense wealth on the more important issues facing this nation, rather than trying to shove their version of religion onto other peoples children while falsely calling it science.

230 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:36pm

re: #213 jwb7605

I love "deferring to their wisdom from a few years back".
Then I recite the entire list of stuff that didn't work, and suggest they add something new that won't work, either.

Yeah.

BTW, from two threads back, I've been waiting to say I liked this a lot.

231 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:53pm

re: #222 godfrey

The 10 commandments. How many of them are actually morally correct? It's at least 50% dogma, 50% morality. Religion does not equal morality.

232 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:39:54pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

233 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:06pm

re: #203 Jim D

Reverence for a supreme being isn't so bad, especially in a primitive time an place. The other seven are moral. I don't want to pick nits here, just saying it isn't so bad. There are worse things we could teach kids, like that children don't exist until they're born and breathing. Like that moral equivalence is OK. Like that people who molest children are just a little sick and need counseling....

234 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:10pm

re: #225 rockman

You mean you study the superficial detritus that obscures the early paleozoic and precambrian crystalline rocks?
:)

Actually I cleanup contaminated gas stations, but paledepositional environments sounds much better.

235 kuffar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:26pm

re: #209 Tigger2005

DK plant? Do they really think they can infect us with Obama love or something? Unbelievable.

236 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:29pm

re: #68 Deaddog

I don't think you can come up with that record even though you say on the record. You lose respect? No I lose respect for you when you make that baseless claim. You are only talking from your emotions and are pulling psuedo wishful facts from thin air and imagination.

237 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:39pm

re: #227 onepistoffyid

I am pretty sure he was up 5 points prior to the election....I read that somewhere.....puff....


man, I knew I should have went to a pipe instead of just packing my cigars loose...

238 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:44pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid
No sorry, she does have a record. Not long for sure, but she fits the Mccain fold. Now understand I'm a vet just like Mccain and NOT real crazy about him. But her pick was a great idea.
Sometimes you have to move beyond 1-2-3.

239 rightymouse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:45pm

Off to bed for me.

onepistoffyid - keep that lid on yer yid.

Deaddog - you're over your head.

Nighty-night.

240 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:40:59pm

re: #232 godfrey

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

I hope you are right, because I cannot take 4 years of Obama-Biden.

241 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:04pm

re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah.

BTW, from two threads back, I've been waiting to say I liked this a lot.

Thanks! Common sense.

242 WhiteRasta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:09pm

re: #171 MandyManners

It is the Whole Wheat Month of Ramadan-Bomb-An-Infidel.

The local MSM piss-rag has daily articles about how wonderful the ROP is with pictures of the peace-loving ROP types having hummus and falafel after sunset.

This shiite is being forced down the the throats of our children at school in the name of multi-culti "tolerance" and "inclusiveness".

No mention of suicide bombing for mohammed or any negative thing to do with the so-called ROP.

243 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:30pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

How many of them are actually morally correct?

All of them.

244 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:31pm

re: #228 Sharmuta

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

I thought that was big news at the time. Guess this is a sign that I should maybe get a life and quit watching the news so much.

245 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:41:37pm

re: #237 nightintheruts

man, I knew I should have went to a pipe instead of just packing my cigars loose...

I meant convention....PIMF

246 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:42:35pm

"re: #138 WindHorse- um.... if she didn't censor anything, what is wrong (necessarily) with advocating censorship?"

re: #166 Deaddog

Wow. I don't even know how to answer that. My hat is off to you. You have defeated your own argument. Self goal.

Sorry, guys; this gets an upding.

Is there really a constituency on LGF for state- or city-government censorship in principle as long as the government doesn't quite get around to it? I hope not...

247 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:42:58pm

re: #240 onepistoffyid

You and me both. Four years of Obama... think of the waste, let alone the harm.

248 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:02pm

re: #232 godfrey

I think you're completely wrong. Of all the state govs, Palin is the one most like McCain. She's tough. She walks the walk.

Her femaleness is just a plus.

Let's check back in November, I hope I have to apologize to you profusely....

249 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:06pm

re: #207 pre-Boomer Marine brat

THAT WAS THE CAT THAT DID THAT, NOT ME -- I SAW THE WHOLE THING !

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

250 WhiteRasta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:25pm

Good night all.

G-d Bless you and keep you.

251 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #243 godfrey

Are you morally superior to the Dali Lama because you keep the sabbath holy? Wow, you must be very impressive. Are you morally superior to all the Jews on planet earth because they don't give a shit about Sunday?

252 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:43:56pm

Goodnight, WhiteRasta!

253 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:08pm

re: #233 Former SSG

Reverence for a supreme being isn't so bad, especially in a primitive time an place. The other seven are moral. I don't want to pick nits here, just saying it isn't so bad. There are worse things we could teach kids, like that children don't exist until they're born and breathing. Like that moral equivalence is OK. Like that people who molest children are just a little sick and need counseling....


Thank you.
I work with sexually abused children. After some of their stories...and seeing those sick f&&ks get off scot free due to "new rulings"...
The death penalty is not so bad.

254 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:20pm

re: #242 WhiteRasta

It is the Whole Wheat Month of Ramadan-Bomb-An-Infidel.

The local MSM piss-rag has daily articles about how wonderful the ROP is with pictures of the peace-loving ROP types having hummus and falafel after sunset.

This shiite is being forced down the the throats of our children at school in the name of multi-culti "tolerance" and "inclusiveness".

No mention of suicide bombing for mohammed or any negative thing to do with the so-called ROP.

That's why The Kid goes to a conservative, Christian school.

255 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:22pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

Zogby.

Oy. Figures. That sure looks like a fluke to me.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

256 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:29pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

lol

Killgore, you asked if they were morally correct, not if I were morally superior.

257 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:47pm

re: #244 cliffster

I thought that was big news at the time. Guess this is a sign that I should maybe get a life and quit watching the news so much.

I do believe we talked about that but I was under the impression that most people ,at least lizards didn't put much into Zogby. Of course I might be wrong on that too.
I think someone even mentioned maybe the poll was rigged to make Obamas presumed post convention bounce seem bigger.

258 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:44:56pm

re: #218 nightintheruts

I can relate. I have a granddaughter who just graduated with a BS degree in Astrophysics and math and indeed, I am lost after about 5 minutes too. Headed to graduate school now.

259 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:06pm

re: #247 godfrey

You and me both. Four years of Obama... think of the waste, let alone the harm.

McCain-Palin are not great, but I will take them....I wanted Rudy....I never get what I want.

260 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:15pm

re: #246 Zimriel

Blocking internet porn at the public library might fall into the state-censorship category. What about that?

261 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:31pm

It's unfortunate that Sarah Palin seems to be the only one coming under this level of scrutiny while 0bama and biden are getting the softball treatment. I think she's tough and she can take it, but her toughness doesn't make it any less hypocritical on the part of the media and pundits.

262 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:33pm

re: #220 mailmars

Most of these politicians don't know what Intelligent Design is. They think it means God created the Universe long ago not 6000 years ago. The Behe arguements behind ID is that "poof everything divinely appeared 6000 years ago. Sort of like a Harry Potter existence.

Micheal Medved on the Board of the Discovery Institute still doesn't know what Intelligent Design is. He is uncomfortable talking about it.

263 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:36pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

I never do. But I want McCain to win, and now I am worried, prior to Palin he was up 5 points, now......?

Dude (or Dudette) - what polls were YOU looking at? The ones I've been watching (Rasmussen, RCP, Gallup) have had McCain down since this whole shebang started. I've never seen McCain ahead in the polls, ever.

Give a link, please.

264 WindHorse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:45:44pm

re: #246 Zimriel

no.

265 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:02pm

re: #226 Deaddog

Keep the spitballs coming, you are just uniting her support, now do you have anything substantial, or you just here to pass gas?

266 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:23pm

re: #240 onepistoffyid


NONE of us can... remember. McCain, because of his past actions has left him in trouble with many REP's....

267 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:25pm

Sarah Palin is a Christian, she believes in creation, and she believes that the first part of the first amendment to the Constitution is sacrosanct. Can there possibly be any greater statement about her desire and ability to lead according to the laws of our country?

268 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:29pm

re: #253 nightintheruts

Moral relativism is killing us. Someone who hurts kids should be locked up for life. A culture that stones women for wanting to choose their own husbands is not the equivalent of my American culture. Anywhere where life is cheap, is a bad place.

269 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:46:49pm

re: #259 onepistoffyid

I never get what I want, either. Right now, I want another cannoli. But there are no more cannoli. The plate is empty. There is no more ricotta. The clouds, nevertheless, pass in their own direction.

270 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:14pm

re: #249 goddessoftheclassroom

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

Link won't open. You didn't get all of the URL

271 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:17pm

re: #267 cliffster

Hey- I tried at #2.

272 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:17pm
273 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:31pm

re: #253 nightintheruts


DITTO on that. I too have seen them as a medic. Hard to hold your actions back!

274 Charles  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:47:43pm

re: #262 hazzyday

Most of these politicians don't know what Intelligent Design is. They think it means God created the Universe long ago not 6000 years ago. The Behe arguements behind ID is that "poof everything divinely appeared 6000 years ago. Sort of like a Harry Potter existence.

Micheal Medved on the Board of the Discovery Institute still doesn't know what Intelligent Design is. He is uncomfortable talking about it.

That's because the whole concept of "intelligent design" is fraudulent. It's creationism with a new name.

275 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:12pm

re: #233 Former SSG
I personally don't see reverence for a supreme being as a good thing and it certainly doesn't prevent people from behaving in all sorts of horrible ways.

276 rawmuse  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:24pm

I think quantum physics does play a role in the Creation and the Revelation story, in my OPINION (and I am no theologian).

Because the ones that put those and other books of the Bible in to the Bible were writing it from a place outside of our present understanding of Time, and yet had to choose language that would impart temporal meaning to we, the mere mortals. Thus we have words like "day, night, morning" etc.

The Book of Revelation was written in such a state.

The perspective is from the universe in its totality, from beyond temporal reference, and says so, right there in the opening passages.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Time is a construct of our physical world. But inspiration often comes from beyond this world, in my humble OPINION.

277 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:31pm

re: #76 nightintheruts

Heh, you said "mysterion".

Ok, ok, not the same spelling, but it made me think of that song.

278 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:35pm

re: #265 Thanos


LOL

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:48:41pm

re: #249 goddessoftheclassroom

You KNOW I had to reply to this...

Me after I dealt with pre-Boomer Marine Brat's spurious allegation

And (while you're reposting the link) of COURSE I knew you'd have to reply. I've got your number. Dogs RULE!

280 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:04pm

re: #42 Deaddog
Leaders fire people, get used to it.

281 Naso Tang  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:08pm

re: #46 MandyManners

Do you want Muslims to come into public schools and shove their beliefs on our origins down the throats of kids on your dime? Do you think they'll stop there?

What about the atheists? Think of what they would do.

//

282 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:27pm

re: #262 hazzyday

The interesting thing about Intelligent Design as a political movement is that its strongest proponents don't want a really specific definition, because that would tend to divide the troops.

283 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:37pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

That is an interesting opinion. My question is who else better reflects his reformer campaign premise? Once we have that list of contender candidates then we can discuss the relative merits of Palin vs. ?.

284 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:38pm

re: #275 Jim D

I personally don't see reverence for a supreme being as a good thing and it certainly doesn't prevent people from behaving in all sorts of horrible ways.

No one ever aid it does.

285 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:49pm

re: #228 Sharmuta

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Scroll down and reuters/Zogby show McCain at +5 in mid-August.

Sorry. We're cross-posting here. I'm a little slow tonight.

You have to be suspicious of one poll that's so out of line with all the rest. That's why I rely more on RCP's averages. And they show Obama ahead by 3-4 points during the same time period, taking Zogby's data into account.

286 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:49:54pm

re: #263 Intrepid

Dude (or Dudette) - what polls were YOU looking at? The ones I've been watching (Rasmussen, RCP, Gallup) have had McCain down since this whole shebang started. I've never seen McCain ahead in the polls, ever.

Give a link, please.

Dude

Here ya go....who should I blame this on?

[Link: time-blog.com...]

287 Dustoff-507  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:12pm

I'm done. You all have a great night.

288 piglet-u93  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:27pm

re: #127 negativ

Note: When you understand why you dismiss the Atum story out-of-hand, you will be one step closer to understanding why lots of people dismiss the creation story of the Abrahamic religions out-of-hand.

Judaism and Christianity have an identical creation story (Genesis). Islam is quite different. Some of us consider Islam to be a plagarization of the Abrahamic religion.

You can read Craig Winn's analysis both from his view and Islam.

[Link: www.prophetofdoom.net...]

Here is an excerpt:

I'd like to set the stage. Yahweh's revelation of our beginning was given to man four thousand years ago. There were no scientists or even a word for "science." The language of astronomical creation, calculus, wouldn't be invented for four millennia. The language of life, DNA, was a concept well beyond this time. I say this to reveal something that should be obvious. The Genesis creation story was not intended to be a scientific explanation of how God made the universe. It was a spiritual explanation of why he created it. The explanation of how was scores of centuries beyond the language of the time. And it was unimportant. Those who want the Biblical account taught in schools as if it were scientific are doing a great disservice.

The why of creation was crucial. It is the essence of the Bible. Genesis tells us that the heavenly bodies, the earth, and life were created during six distinct periods of time. The word "day" did not actually appear in the ancient Hebrew text so we don't know if creation took millions or billions of years. But we know that with the exception of the fourth period, the order of creation, and the description of the events upon which it comprises are in harmony with what we have learned through science. The Bible's account even has man and the animals being made from the same material and during the same period of time.

Read more (from the linked chapter above) if want to see the creation story from Mohammad's brain.

289 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:28pm

OT:

Did anybody else read the article entitled "Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals" in Today in Investor's Business Daily? The Obamas are beyond radicals. Mark Levin was talking about it today on his program.

[Link: www.investors.com...]

290 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:29pm

re: #281 Naso Tang

What about the atheists? Think of what they would do.

//

HA!

291 ghost repeater[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:43pm
292 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:50:49pm

re: #272 goddessoftheclassroom

[Link: icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com.. .]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!
MWAH!

293 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:22pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

Spare me. The Republican base loves Palin. (The base also loves Jindal; but Jindal is radioactive to non-base-Republicans and needs to undergo a period of secular penance.) Palin's record as a libertarian conservative and as pro-energy would make her a folk hero no matter what she looked like.

294 JHW  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:24pm

I notice this crap is getting repeated, along with many other groundless slurs, very heavily in comments in European publications. "She believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old", "she's a gun nut, one step away from the red button and our extinction", "she kills endangered species", "she hunts wolves from planes", "she bans books", "she, like most Americans, doesn't know anything about geography and only got her first passport this year". This is what they really want to believe about most Americans, all a bunch of gun-loving,overweight, religious fanatic, ignorant rednecks ready to set the world on fire. It makes them feel oh so superior and sophisticated,and they love the light-bringer Obama, he'll talk to Putin and the terrorists and save the world from the out of control, greedy superpower.

I'm as heartily sick of their condescension and elite attitudes as I am of it here by the American left. I have news for you enlightened Euros, a lot of us don't have passports because here in North America it's more than 20 miles between national borders. Traveling from my home state of Washington to Southern California is the rough equivalent to driving to Moscow from Paris.To go to another country besides Canada is a hell of a lot more expensive than this working class person can afford. It's not quite the same as in Europe being able to cross half a dozen national borders on a tank of gas. Save your condescension and scorn, you'll have more problems than you want soon enough with your disdain for having children. I wonder if all those aliens you're importing to do your peasant work are going to be willing forever to fund your early retirements and 35 hour work weeks.

295 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:36pm

re: #275 Jim D

Well, Jim, we probably will have to agree to respectfully disagree. This is the sort of subject that causes trouble among friends, so let's not do it.

However, I think that most religious people don't cause trouble, just fanatics. I am not a fanatic, so see above comment. Still friends?

296 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:53pm

Some denominations and Christian people fast for more than 180 days out of the year. I know some. They just roll their eyes when Muslims brag about how they gorge all night fast during Ramadan. Some people live on grapefruit and lettuce longer than that.

297 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:51:55pm

re: #234 onepistoffyid

Actually I cleanup contaminated gas stations, but paledepositional environments sounds much better.

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

298 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:29pm

re: #268 Former SSG


Exactly. And now with laws like 0bama wants to pass, we appear to be moving from abortion to infanticide, as an example.
The things I see from the cheap seats, we have opened up sexuality to a degree where the only things left sacred or off-limits are the children, but for how long?
Of course that could be considered a 'slippery slope' argument, but...

299 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:33pm

re: #260 jaunte

Blocking internet porn at the public library might fall into the state-censorship category. What about that?

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

300 Jim D  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:52:59pm

I've heard re: #284 MandyManners

It was certainly implied.

301 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:06pm

re: #289 flynmudd

OT:

Did anybody else read the article entitled "Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals" in Today in Investor's Business Daily? The Obamas are beyond radicals. Mark Levin was talking about it today on his program.

[Link: www.investors.com...]

Many of today's youth find the pitch attractive. "I may spend the rest of my life trying to create social movement," said Brian Coovert of the Cincinnati chapter. "There is always going to be work to do. Until we have a perfect country, I'll have a job."

Perpetual revolution.

302 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:11pm

To Deaddog:

Let me repeat: As Mayor she was doing her JOB. It was a MUNICIPAL library, overseen and funded by the town. When approached by citizens she had a responsibility to bring the request to the librarian. It doesn't even mean advocating or demanding.

It means asking them to look into whether or not there is any validity to the materials. She didn't do it as a private citizen, it was her JOB.

Persons she dismissed were on GROUNDS --not because they disagreed with her. You seem to have a problem with firing persons for corruption, ethical violations or other breaches.

303 Intrepid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:23pm

re: #195 Dustoff-507

Have NO idea, but NY is so LIB I'm shocked

I wonder about the PUMA factor - if enough PUMAs from NY come out and vote like so many of their other sister/brother PUMAs seem to be voting, then NY might be closer than we think it will be.

After all, Hillary got slammed by the Obama machine, and in many ways, it was sexist. And the PUMAs are royally pissed off about that.

304 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:53:28pm

re: #226 Deaddog

I'm sorry, do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

305 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:07pm

re: #256 godfrey

Well if you are "morally correct" over those who are morally wrong then that makes you superior. My neighbor has a bigger house and his wife has a nice ass. I covet them both. Are you morally superior to me?

306 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:12pm

re: #293 Zimriel

Spare me. The Republican base loves Palin. (The base also loves Jindal; but Jindal is radioactive to non-base-Republicans and needs to undergo a period of secular penance.) Palin's record as a libertarian conservative and as pro-energy would make her a folk hero no matter what she looked like.

Palin is the most popular politician - more so than Hillary, Obama or McCain. McCain is a genius.

307 RubyTuesday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:16pm

re: #202 Tigger2005
My point is God did create something from nothing. Man cannot replicate that feat, so they twist and turn and fabricate theories. Anything to deny there is a God.
As for the questions with no answers, I'm satisfied to wait.
Faith isn't "reasonable" - it's faith. If it's not your thing, fine. I don't push my Christianity on others, but I don't hide it either. How hard is it for non-Christians to do the same?

308 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:16pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?


Do you want Muslims to force their beliefs about this down the throats of kids in public schools? If we allow one religious explanation, we'll be forced to allow the others.

309 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Past that, it is a Mayor's duty to know about how the mechanics of these things operate. She was doing her job in finding out the answer in case one of he constituents asked the question.

310 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:54:48pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

Because it is -- in another religion, so be it -- an attempt at the imposition of a statist religious world view upon the secular.

311 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:12pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

The 10 commandments. How many of them are actually morally correct? It's at least 50% dogma, 50% morality. Religion does not equal morality.

Which 5 are dogma?

312 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:32pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

Hey- I tried at #2.

Indeed you did - missed that. She's proven herself in ways that most people never could, but just making the statement that creation might be true causes people to draw a whole set of totally unwarranted conclusions.

313 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:55:45pm

re: #298 nightintheruts

Exactly. And now with laws like 0bama wants to pass, we appear to be moving from abortion to infanticide, as an example.
The things I see from the cheap seats, we have opened up sexuality to a degree where the only things left sacred or off-limits are the children, but for how long?
Of course that could be considered a 'slippery slope' argument, but...

No, some things should be off-limits, and children should be let to be children s long as possible. So few little girls and boys now, just over sexualized young adults. I played with dolls until I was 15... now they grow up so fast. A little sad to me.

314 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:07pm

re: #274 Charles

That's because the whole concept of "intelligent design" is fraudulent. It's creationism with a new name.

re: #297 rockman

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

I spent years doing that. I once found 15 feet of pure, usable gasoline in one of my monitoring wells just outside the berm of an above ground storage tank.
What a mess. I'm currently a research microscopist (mostly polarized light microscopy) in a lab that specializes in forensics, materials science, and the like. I wouldn't trade my education in earth sciences for anything. It is all fascinating, and seems to promote a world view that is "green" without being stupid. I love the outdoors, fish, animals, forests, but NOTHING warms my heart more than an oil rig or a mine truck rolling towards a mill...

Happy isogyres!

315 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:13pm

re: #307 RubyTuesday

My point is God did create something from nothing. Man cannot replicate that feat, so they twist and turn and fabricate theories. Anything to deny there is a God.
As for the questions with no answers, I'm satisfied to wait.
Faith isn't "reasonable" - it's faith. If it's not your thing, fine. I don't push my Christianity on others, but I don't hide it either. How hard is it for non-Christians to do the same?

Teaching evolution has nothing to do with denying that there is a God.

That's the point.

/or one of them, anyway.

316 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:21pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?

Because there are other things in the world. This is an argument much like getting mad at a police officer for enforcing the speed limit when stores are getting robbed or getting mad at the wife because she didn't stop cooking supper while you were telling a story. We can focus on more than one subject at a time.

317 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:32pm

re: #280 hazzyday

Leaders fire people, get used to it.

Yes, yes, they do. We're living through an era when scientists are being fired for giving honest opinions to the best of their abilities:

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

Is this what a Palin government would be like, as well? Sure, there's a difference between threatening a librarian and firing agency scientists ... but really only in the level of government.

These are not trivial issues. I am increasingly concerned that a McCain - Palin administration would be anti-science. McCain has already taken potshots at quite decent studies, just for political points:

[Link: newsgroups.derkeiler.com...]

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

318 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:50pm

re: #304 Celtic Templar

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

I think that's kinda sorta maybe close, but just off point.
Until somebody (and I've tried) can uncover what material she was concerned about, this ain't going away.

Maybe somebody will just ask her and she'll just answer.

319 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:56:52pm

re: #301 MandyManners

Do you not find it troubling that Obama wants to promote this type of organization? I have heard him mention it. It sounds like re-education camps for radicals.

320 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:26pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

This came up in my town also. The Mayor wanted to censor, the librarian didn't. They talked and agreed on an internet porn filter for the public pc's. Though I seem not to be able to find Mark Steyn books in the library now.

As a new mayor of course she is going to have this issue. Of course people will ask her to do it. Her job is to find the best path to serve the public.

Obama like Ayers apologizes for none of his past. And they like it that way.

321 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:26pm

re: #294 JHW

Some with nuggets of truth nested in the smear, like all good agitprop.

Hunting wolves from planes is legal in Alaska due to the overblown population of wolves, and was before she became governor. They like to keep the wolf population culled in urban areas so they don't eat the dogs and kids.

She belongs to the NRA, in Europe that makes you a gun nut.

She believes in G-D and creation, in Europe that means you must be a fundie.

She asked a librarian some policy questions on censorship, ergo to the left and Euros she wants to burn books.

322 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:57:52pm

none of these allegations are going to slow down sarah palin. she has won the country. she will be vice=president.
the dems and msm sense this too. it is driving them bat-shit nuts.

323 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:03pm

re: #317 Deaddog

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

324 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:08pm

re: #304 Celtic Templar

This banning books story is a canard. Pornography is prevented from being placed in our libraries, and we fight to make sure it is, sorry. The FCC "bans" free speech that includes the 7 deadly words. The government shutting down a publishing house that publishes a book is banning. Public square book burning is effective banning.

No, it's not unless it's the government that lights the fire and tosses the books. If I want to stage a public book burning in the local park, I'd be able to get the permit to do so.

325 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:13pm

re: #57 onepistoffyid

Who elected you choir director? The guy spouted like a beached whale and others call him on it. If you want to join him, fine. I'm an equal opportunity dinger and I ain't alone.

326 godfrey  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:58:49pm

re: #305 Killgore Trout

The 10 Commandments were given to us by God, who cannot be anything other than morally correct. God is the source of their correctness. I have nothing to do with that. As for moral superiority, I claim none.

327 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:00pm

re: #324 MandyManners

Sorry, I meant to say that and allude to Nazi Book Burning Parties ...

328 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:47pm

re: #296 David IV of Georgia

Some denominations and Christian people fast for more than 180 days out of the year. I know some. They just roll their eyes when Muslims brag about how they gorge all night fast during Ramadan. Some people live on grapefruit and lettuce longer than that.


Thank you. I'm actually one of them.
but no grapefruit - makes my bellybutton pucker...

329 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 6:59:49pm

re: #326 godfrey

If you're not a monotheist, maybe 3 are religious, the other 7 are moral:

Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's house
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

330 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:00:21pm

re: #316 Outrider

Because there are other things in the world. This is an argument much like getting mad at a police officer for enforcing the speed limit when stores are getting robbed or getting mad at the wife because she didn't stop cooking supper while you were telling a story. We can focus on more than one subject at a time.

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

331 callahan23  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:00:36pm

re: #294 JHW

Right on.
I am a German and I am oft-times enraged about the hatred spewed on America.
Tell me a way out and I am goiiiing, gone and am left. :-(

332 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:03pm

re: #317 Deaddog

Yes, yes, they do. We're living through an era when scientists are being fired for giving honest opinions to the best of their abilities:

It's weird, as a nation we have risen to prominence due to alot of things, but one of them is technological prowess. I and most of the scientists I know think that we have suffered greatly under Bush. We cannot afford another four years of the same. Are there other policies? Sure. Are the Democrats equally craven? Sure. But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

If they both are going to openly go across the aisles for solutions, I am not so worried about radical change. Obama will be the totalitarian. E.G. his treatment of Hilary as Annie Oakley. His shutting down of the role call at the convention to silence any Hilary noise. His backchannel into Oprah via his top advisors to leverage her not to interview Palin.

John McCain wouldn't do that stuff

333 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:15pm

re: #319 flynmudd

Do you not find it troubling that Obama wants to promote this type of organization? I have heard him mention it. It sounds like re-education camps for radicals.

That's EXACTLY what they are. This is very troubling. Forced "volunteerism" is slavery.

334 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:16pm

re: #325 Cap'n DOC

Who elected you choir director? The guy spouted like a beached whale and others call him on it. If you want to join him, fine. I'm an equal opportunity dinger and I ain't alone.

I just appreciate diversity of opinion (within reason)....this thread is alot better than some in previous nights....oh the humanity....

335 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:24pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Check out his links. It is a serious case of BDS

336 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:25pm

DD, now that's slick. Pimping leftist blogs and pimping the party line that McCain is Bush II. You are well practiced at this I see.

337 segesta[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:26pm
338 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Simple. If they'd elected Gore/Edwards, superman would still be alive.

339 Nancy  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:47pm

re: #286 onepistoffyid

McCain is UP --Rassmussen .....by a considerable amount. Obama is down.

In fact if you look at the earlier thread on this website site .....Palin is actually ahead of BOTH OBama and McCain!

Not only that but some states that were strong Obama are now only "leaning" Obama and in a couple aren't even leaning Obama anymore --are now up for grabs. States there Obama EXPECTED and counted on winning.

There's at least two that I recall that were strongly Obama that are now TIED.
ALL since the announcement of Palin and her Wed. speech.

340 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:47pm

re: #299 jwb7605

Exactly.
Nobody seems to be able to specify what Sarah Palin wanted to censor (or more correctly inquired about censoring to a legal counsel).
I doubt if it was cookbooks.

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

341 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:01:59pm

re: #327 Celtic Templar

Sorry, I meant to say that and allude to Nazi Book Burning Parties ...

Nasty time.

342 cliffster  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:35pm

re: #330 jwb7605

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

Half as many chromosomes? You hang out with some crazy girls.

343 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:38pm

re: #276 rawmuse

I think quantum physics does play a role in the Creation and the Revelation story, in my OPINION (and I am no theologian).

Because the ones that put those and other books of the Bible in to the Bible were writing it from a place outside of our present understanding of Time, and yet had to choose language that would impart temporal meaning to we, the mere mortals. Thus we have words like "day, night, morning" etc.

The Book of Revelation was written in such a state.

The perspective is from the universe in its totality, from beyond temporal reference, and says so, right there in the opening passages.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Time is a construct of our physical world. But inspiration often comes from beyond this world, in my humble OPINION.

That is essentially my view. How does someone write about such a subject so that it will be both relevant to the immediate audience as well as cultures and people far into the future? The only recourse is the language of poetry and legends. The use of poetical imagery does not mean the story is false, it just means that there is more there than is written.

If someone wants to try to convince me that I must believe literally in a book from Moses' time (circa 1200 B.C. [B.C.E.]), I would like them to have at least mastered the language it is written in. I wonder how many of these people have mastered Mosaic-era Hebrew and are thoroughly acquainted with its idioms and idiosyncrasies? (Note: Modern Hebraic scholarship has an incomplete knowledge of this era of the Hebrew language.)

344 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:56pm

re: #322 nyc redneck

none of these allegations are going to slow down sarah palin. she has won the country. she will be vice=president.
the dems and msm sense this too. it is driving them bat-shit nuts.

More importantly, she represents a very real threat to them in the 2012 Presidential race and they know it.

345 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:02:57pm

OT

Right at the end of Hannity and Skeletor the Pig, Hannity ripped MSM a new one for attacking Gov. Palin and her family - he was in Saint Louis, and Skeletor the Pig was in NYC, but I swear if looks could kill, then Skeletor the Pig would be deceased. And Skeletor the Pig said ZIP on the subject and very quickly said - gotta go - bye!

Interesting.

346 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:03:39pm

re: #317 Deaddog

BDS.

347 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:03:42pm

re: #338 jwb7605

Simple. If they'd elected Gore/Edwards, superman would still be alive.

Oh, so the global warming / cooling / climate change stuff that we didn't sign on to Kyoto b/c of Clinton, but blame Bush for it stuff? That science ...

348 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:03pm

re: #323 Celtic Templar

What a load of B.S.! How exactly has science suffered under Bush? I smell BDS ...

Funding cuts I bet. They didn't get Uncle Sam to fund their pet projects with as much $$$ as they wanted.

349 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:05pm

re: #157 onepistoffyid

Hands off Deaddog!

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

350 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:36pm

re: #317 Deaddog

Yes science censorship is bad. McCain just has an earmark deletion priority with a cutoff line in a large large budget. It's not that he is anti science.

Scientists need to create a broader publishing and discussion system on the internet where working drafts can be logged and tracked.

351 flynmudd  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:46pm

re: #333 MandyManners

I know that the MSM won't tell the public about this and most people are too lazy to find out on their own. If Obama wins, we as a nation are royally screwed. Mark Levin said these types of groups were getting government funding during the 70s and Reagan cut them off. Why would our government fund its own demise? These groups are waaaaayyyy out there.

352 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:04:55pm

re: #339 Nancy

McCain is UP --Rassmussen .....by a considerable amount. Obama is down.

In fact if you look at the earlier thread on this website site .....Palin is actually ahead of BOTH OBama and McCain!

Not only that but some states that were strong Obama are now only "leaning" Obama and in a couple aren't even leaning Obama anymore --are now up for grabs. States there Obama EXPECTED and counted on winning.

There's at least two that I recall that were strongly Obama that are now TIED.
ALL since the announcement of Palin and her Wed. speech.

That is good news...I hope I am wrong about her...I come here for reassurance....I talk to alot of PA independents and she is not well received in my small circle....maybe I am not getting a good representative sample.

353 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:01pm

re: #340 Deaddog

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

I think it is pretty clear that it is not real.

354 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

I know not to click on it a second time! (How's your bruise?)

355 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #335 kcladderman

Check out his links. It is a serious case of BDS

Well, the rate of funding has declined relative to inflation for the first time in many years.
[Link: www.blog.thesietch.org...]

This is while our major economic competitors are dumping moneys into science like no one's business. Have you visited China recently? It's unreal. It's what the industrial revolution must have been like in England ... that is, if England were a police state.

356 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:46pm

re: #328 nightintheruts

Thank you. I'm actually one of them.
but no grapefruit - makes my bellybutton pucker...

Do you roll your eyes when hearing about the "sacrifice" of Ramadan? Hope you are enjoying you veggies today—I sure want a hamburger, but I can wait till tomorrow.

357 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:46pm

re: #311 Celtic Templar

I'll go by the Catholic version and say 1, 2 3, 9, and 10 have nothing to do with morality. #4 (Honor your father and mother) is grey area. What if they are Nazi pedophile serial killers? Should I still honour them?

358 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:50pm

re: #340 Deaddog

Actually, there is a list, but it's not clear that it's real.

[Link: www.librarian.net...]

I'd need confirmation of some sort to buy into that list.
Especially with the remark that it's on the book burners favorites.

359 onepistoffyid  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:05:56pm

re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth

Leave Deaddog alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE!

/holy crap, I got to use that Seth Green clip twice in the same day

Let a dead dog lie...!

360 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:04pm

re: #352 onepistoffyid

That is good news...I hope I am wrong about her...I come here for reassurance....I talk to alot of PA independents and she is not well received in my small circle....maybe I am not getting a good representative sample.

My anecdote beats yours, women in South Jersey (typically blue dog dems) LOVE Palin.

361 itellu3times  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:08pm

Tag clouds for Palin's and McCain's speeches at Belmont.

Amusing.

362 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:18pm

re: #330 jwb7605

Speaking of which, another thing bothers me.
How come it's women who can multitask when they only have half as many chromosomes?
I mean, I can do it, but I end up screwing up two things at once.

They have no choice most times? I know it makes me mad when I'm talking and she is holding a conversation with the grandkid and assures me she "is listening". ;-)>

363 LoFlyer[deleted]  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:22pm
364 nightintheruts  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:27pm

re: #313 Former SSG

No, some things should be off-limits, and children should be let to be children s long as possible. So few little girls and boys now, just over sexualized young adults. I played with dolls until I was 15... now they grow up so fast. A little sad to me.


The good thing is...more people are coming out about sexual abuse. I sometimes have media attention in what I do and I have soooo many older women come up to me and say, "I wish people like you had been around when I was a child". It's very sad.
I told the state legislature here that we'd better turn some of our attention from saving the world for the sake of our children and start saving our children for the sake of the world.
But that's my personal soapbox, sorry...

365 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:34pm

re: #350 hazzyday

Yes science censorship is bad. McCain just has an earmark deletion priority with a cutoff line in a large large budget. It's not that he is anti science.

Scientists need to create a broader publishing and discussion system on the internet where working drafts can be logged and tracked.

That's not necessarily a bad idea, except for the impact on IP. We're expected to *commercialize* what we do; the push for translational science is huge, and rightly so. We're expected to contribute to American economic productivity. Hell, I've already had to block access to one of my grants because a company tried to FOI it.

366 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:06:54pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Always honor your parents. If they are Nazi serial killers, the best honor you can do is turn them in to save their souls.

367 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:23pm

re: #345 Catttt

OT

Right at the end of Hannity and Skeletor the Pig, Hannity ripped MSM a new one for attacking Gov. Palin and her family - he was in Saint Louis, and Skeletor the Pig was in NYC, but I swear if looks could kill, then Skeletor the Pig would be deceased. And Skeletor the Pig said ZIP on the subject and very quickly said - gotta go - bye!

Interesting.

Missed them first time around.
Now you've made me miss my scheduled bedtime for the "repeat".

GOTTA see that.

368 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:33pm

re: #359 onepistoffyid

Let a dead dog lie...!

While the support is appreciate, I really can take care of myself. Thanks, though.

369 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:34pm

re: #224 onepistoffyid

See that is my major problem with the pick ....I think she was chosen because she was a woman, not because of her record. If she was a man she never would have been picked. Identity politics is for Dems....I thought the Republicans were above that and went on objective merits....not skin color or gender...i guess I was wrong.

No, you weren't wrong. You're wrong now. There are a lot of strong women in the Republican party. McCain could have made a much safer choice. Did you listen to the speeches at the GOP convention? And the responses? Ridge (he was my governor too) was a dud. I thought Mitt was pretty bad as well (though I'm in the minority on that one). Huck and Rudy did a great job of riling up the crowd but mostly played the attack game. I didn't hear Pawlenty but understand he was less than inspiring.

And then there was Sarah, who brought the house down.

McCain has, on more than one occasion, gone out on a limb and come back with the goods. I wouldn't sell him short on this pick if I were you.

370 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:35pm

One thing I like about great painting and poetry and sculpture is that they are representative of the genius of inpsiration of the author. I always perceive this as a divine inspiration beyound my mundane dreams. I think I am looking at a person's connection to God in some fashion.

371 christheprofessor  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:07:54pm

re: #332 hazzyday

If they both are going to openly go across the aisles for solutions, I am not so worried about radical change. Obama will be the totalitarian. E.G. his treatment of Hilary as Annie Oakley. His shutting down of the role call at the convention to silence any Hilary noise. His backchannel into Oprah via his top advisors to leverage her not to interview Palin.

His call for a civilian national defense force (presumably for domestic purposes).

372 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:01pm

re: #317 Deaddog

But at least they don't seem to be openly antithetical to the gathering of scientific truth.

You are a BDS lout, screaming broad-based persecution of science based upon specific criticism of specific studies/programs.

We deal in FACTS here.
FOAD, asshole!

373 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:04pm

re: #334 onepistoffyid

Hey deadog, I am with you...

The quote implies that you are in agreement and not looking for diversity of opinion, or am I misunderstanding what you said?

374 rockman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:29pm

re: #314 onepistoffyid

Believe it or not, sometimes I cross the polars and shove in the quarter wave plate ans spin the stage until I blow my mind. know what I'm sayin?

375 nyc redneck  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:33pm

re: #344 Outrider

More importantly, she represents a very real threat to them in the 2012 Presidential race and they know it.

yes, that too.
i love how she is so unfazed by these flailing maniacs.
she has incredible inner strength and they are so threatened by that.

376 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:33pm

re: #358 jwb7605

I'd need confirmation of some sort to buy into that list.
Especially with the remark that it's on the book burners favorites.

I agree, although you do tend to see the same lists over and over for real. The book burners talk to one another. It's hard to know what to be offended about if you haven't actually read the book.

377 jaunte  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #372 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Now that's a welt key.

378 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:35pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Kilgore you were raised by decent people, not Nazi pedophile serial killers! And if you go back in the thread, I qualified that by saying "honor your elders," something we don't do enough of in the US....

379 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:37pm

re: #329 Celtic Templar

I rule out the coveting. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a mind crime. as long as there's no action to take your neighbor's wife or house you are free to think whatever you want. Thinking something is not immoral, acting is.

380 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:08:38pm

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And (while you're reposting the link) of COURSE I knew you'd have to reply. I've got your number. Dogs RULE!


Upding!
Can I offer you some nice gato tacos?

381 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:09pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

So not coveting someone's wife or property is religious? I think it's moral. I don't see the religion in it.

382 Naso Tang  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:17pm

re: #291 ghost repeater

I sometimes wonder why we are having this conversation.
The world is in the balance.
What does "creation science" have to do with protecting our country and stopping us from from being attacked by radical Muslim terrorists?

Do you think you are sneaking this one by Charles, and he doesn't notice?

383 jwb7605  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:27pm

re: #361 itellu3times

Tag clouds for Palin's and McCain's speeches at Belmont.

Amusing.

Interesting.
I liked this sentence:

McCain’s speech was the declaration of someone with nothing left to prove.
384 kcladderman  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:32pm

re: #355 Deaddog

Well, the rate of funding has declined relative to inflation for the first time in many years.
[Link: www.blog.thesietch.org...]

This is while our major economic competitors are dumping moneys into science like no one's business. Have you visited China recently? It's unreal. It's what the industrial revolution must have been like in England ... that is, if England were a police state.

But at what cost? I do like the we should model our selfs after China argument though.
Where have I heard that before......hummmmmm

385 Thanos  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:34pm

re: #355 Deaddog

But on the other hand spending on defense science is up, spending on energy research is up. Spending on your favored science might be down.

386 Lynn B.  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:09:59pm

And I don't know what's up with Deaddog. The last thread I saw him (just a guess) on, he was making good arguments and a lot of sense. Go figure.

387 Former SSG  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:00pm

re: #364 nightintheruts

You do good work. Thank you.

388 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:19pm

re: #372 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You are a BDS lout, screaming broad-based persecution of science based upon specific criticism of specific studies/programs.

We deal in FACTS here.
FOAD, asshole!

The truly amusing thing is that I appear to be the only one posting links. Admittedly, whatever comes up on Google may or may not be reliable, although I try to vet what I post for at least a semblance of factuality (quotes in newspapers, facts and figures on the decline in funding, for example). But, as I have previously said, words speak for themselves, mine and yours.

I obviously have an agenda, but it doesn't have to do with liberalism. I'm always very open about my agenda. It's about science. It's about an American technocracy that I feel is losing out to competitors.

389 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:23pm

re: #337 segesta

STINKY!

390 Zimriel  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:35pm

re: #288 piglet-u93

Judaism and Christianity have an identical creation story (Genesis). Islam is quite different. Some of us consider Islam to be a plagarization of the Abrahamic religion.

Scattered thoughts here -

Judaism and Christianity actually both have the same two creation stories but differ as to emphasis. Judaism focuses on Genesis 1, with the six-day creation and the Sabbath. Christianity focuses on Genesis 2, with Original Sin, the serpent, and the need for an anti-serpent to undo what the serpent did. In Documentary Hypothesis terms, Judaism is P here (although D in practice) and Christianity is J here (although P in practice).

Muslims seem to be D in theory and practice; but their creation myth is more drawn from the Book of Enoch, which is kind of an uber-uber-P. Muslims have a Garden of Eden story too but it is rewritten so as to remove the original-sin implications, and incidentally to assert the need for modest clothing (rather than implying that clothing is a result of the Fall).

I have no idea how Jews handle Genesis 2.

Catholic Christians ignore Genesis 1 except insofar as it institutes a seven-day week; creationists treat it as a science text.

391 Celtic Templar  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:35pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Ah, I do disagree with you. I believe the act of coveting is quite immoral and affects your actions.

392 hazzyday  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:43pm

re: #365 Deaddog

That's not necessarily a bad idea, except for the impact on IP. We're expected to *commercialize* what we do; the push for translational science is huge, and rightly so. We're expected to contribute to American economic productivity. Hell, I've already had to block access to one of my grants because a company tried to FOI it.

yes the scientist needs to be able to create his/her own web document in IPv6 and assign viewing and editing priveleges to it. Once moved off local storage into central secure storage it can acquire some legitmacy. John McCain would go for that. He is Web 3.0 now.

393 CanuckInTN  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:46pm

I'm a fairly new hatchling, so be gentle with me!

I find the whole conflict between "Creation" and "Evolution" to be silly. Evolution is not the antithesis of Creation.

Despite the title of the work, the "Origin of Species" did not make any real comment on the actual origin of life, only how one existing form of life morphs into other, more complex forms of life through mutation and natural selection.

So, if you believe in a Creator, tell me which one is more miraculous:
1) A Creator who created the heavens and the Earth, and all the flora and fauna thereon, in 6 days, then took a day off to admire his work
OR
2) A Creator who 13.5 billion years ago set the rules of nature and created a tiny spec of energy in the emptiness, in the knowledge that in the fullness of time, those laws of nature would create a vast Universe, including galaxies, stars, and a tiny planet, where life would come about, and through His Law of Evolution, turn into beings that would wonder at His splendor?

Personally, I think #2 is the more miraculous one. And here's the kicker, just like Evolution, the Big Bang theory tells how the Universe evolved from moments after the event, it says nothing about what happened before the event, or what caused the event to occur...

394 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #329 Celtic Templar

If you're not a monotheist, maybe 3 are religious, the other 7 are moral:
/don't be upset friends

Honor your father and mother..they may kick your butt
You shall not murder cause harm to anything...unless you need to eat it.. I command tasty BBQ sauce.
You shall not commit adulterykeep it in your pants asshat.
You shall not stealRip off anyone..no matter who they are..( The Playboy mansion is exempt )
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor...( don't be a lying bastard)
You shall not covet your neighbor's house ( especially sub-prime preditory lending..big no no)
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife Lawn mower


/I'm so sorry..

395 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:14pm

re: #285 Lynn B.

Sorry. We're cross-posting here. I'm a little slow tonight.

You have to be suspicious of one poll that's so out of line with all the rest. That's why I rely more on RCP's averages. And they show Obama ahead by 3-4 points during the same time period, taking Zogby's data into account.

Zogby's last poll also had McCain up, iirc. Not even mentioned on RCP. But- time will tell.

396 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:19pm

re: #381 Celtic Templar

Yes, my desires are my own. As long as there's no action, there's no foul. I don't think a just god would punish people for very human acts such as envy as long as there's no action. It's a thought crime.

397 Catttt  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:26pm

Attention all lizards (you know who you are):

"A lot" is two words.

As you were.

398 Deaddog  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:30pm

re: #386 Lynn B.

And I don't know what's up with Deaddog. The last thread I saw him (just a guess) on, he was making good arguments and a lot of sense. Go figure.

Same person, Lynn. Sorry if my support of science in the political realm seems askance with my support of science in the, er, scientific realm. It seems consistent to me. Shrug.

399 Outrider  Fri, Sep 5, 2008 7:11:33pm

re: #363 LoFlyer

I won't quote this time-------delete in 3...2...1

400 nightintheruts