“So, a donkey is more evolved than a human? No,”

But I thought hamas had endorsed the donkey candidate.

Boyo, he's really on top with that one.

I guess the argument is over then.....

Stay in the stone age then.... jackass.

Another "Doctor"

re: #1 Sharmuta

Hey Sharm, mine works better where yours is at. Can we switch? :o)

After all, said Zahar, a donkey can eat shrubbery and survive, but a human cannot.

Depends on the shrub. Survive? Yes. Enjoy it? Probably not.

After all, said Zahar, a donkey can eat shrubbery and survive, but a human cannot.

This might be the worst "debunking" of evolution I've ever read.

After all, said Zahar, a donkey can eat shrubbery and survive, but a human cannot.

Hmmm. Some Alice B. Toklas brownies sounds good about now.

After all, said Zahar, a donkey can eat shrubbery and survive, but a human cannot.

And this guy is a surgeon?

Meanwhile, the Palestinians, apparently can live on olives and salt.

This month, a defiant [Gazan HAMAS leader] Haniyeh told a rally that Palestinians would live, if necessary, on “salt, olives and hyssop” – an herb – rather than being starved into submission by the international aid cutoff. Days later, a cartoon in the Palestinian newspaper Al Ayyam showed a man trying to use his bank card at an automated teller machine, with salt, olives and hyssop offered instead of money.

Of course he doesn't believe in evolution, just like he thinks the "culture" of Gaza is superior to the culture of the Jews.
I really wouldn't mind if all these terrorists killed each other.

For a group which regularly advocates child sacrifice, talking about evolution might be a bit risky.

hyssop

Akin to vinegar.

re: #7 Outrider

Did someone say shrubbery?

"We live in a prison," the woman's friend adds. "If we want to criticize, it's forbidden."

But she throws caution to the winds, her voice rising as she condemns the Hamas crackdown on its rivals in Fatah. "It's our neighbours who are oppressing us."

Nobody disagrees.

Fascinating. She didn't blame Israel.

Allah, not evolution, made man, he says

But wait -- I thought we were created by intelligent design...

Seriously, If Mahmoud Zahar believed in evolution would that have been likely to have made him any better?

Nothings evolving here.

ROPMA...Yes CAIR, you paint with a broad brush.

re: #13 Cap'n DOC

{hyssop} Akin to vinegar.

Not exactly.

Its a fragrant, kind of minty herb, used in the making of "zatar" a popular middle eastern spice.

re: #12 mj

They practice their own Eugenics...

A culture worthy of a Darwin Award?

Don't tell my kids - I make them eat broccoli, spinach, parsely, lettuce - all sorts of shrubbery looking foods.

"We want them to find an agreement with Israel so we can go and work in Israel," he says. "Everyone here wants to go to Israel to find a job. We want to live! We want to live!"

Apparently the democrats and the msm are not the only ones experiencing blowback these days.

So, a donkey is more evolved than a human?

What an ass.

Allah has made Gaza Islamic

And behold the majesty of his work!

i'm really starting to wonder abt. these moslem 'doctors'.
and this one, a 'surgeon by training.'

Strange comment for a surgeon to make. Back in the middle ages when Europeans let the sciences lapse and Islam was making scientific discoveries and capitalizing on those sciences from conquered territories; they discovered many medicinal and food production uses for many shrubs.

Now these fools want to go back to a time predating their "best and most productive" times. I sure hope as a surgeon that he uses better science than this on his patients, otherwise he may as well just do voodoo and stick pins in dolls.

Evolution means that the Universe is running without the direct supervision of the false god Allah! They can't believe that.

re: #19 looking closely

Not exactly.

Its a fragrant, kind of minty herb, used in the making of "zatar" a popular middle eastern spice.

I have a bag of zatar on my spice shelf right now.

Problem is, like the nutmeg and the lemon-grass, I rarely have a use for it. I think I've used it maybe twice in the last year.

Another Harun Yahya fan. Just like the Disco Institute.

A Palestinian "doctor," eh?

Now you know why Arafat went to Paris for his operations. He may have been evil, but he wasn't stupid.

No wonder those folk in Gaza are so confused. They dare not think that evolution IsReal. It might be confused with Israel. So they dare not believe in it.

re: #28 zombie

You can use zatar and olive oil to make a simple dressing for salads, or dipping bread.

re: #22 Sharmuta

"We want them to find an agreement with Israel so we can go and work in Israel," he says. "Everyone here wants to go to Israel to find a job. We want to live! We want to live!"

Apparently the democrats and the msm are not the only ones experiencing blowback these days.

No kidding. They don't find the irony that Israel is more productive and civilized and their "country" has nothing but death apparently.

re: #25 nyc redneck

i'm really starting to wonder abt. these moslem 'doctors'.
and this one, a 'surgeon by training.'

Hacking Limbs 101 and Camel Urine Therapy 102 prerequisite courses.

re: #30 zombie

Palestinian doctors tend to be this kind.

re: #26 Outrider

Strange comment for a surgeon to make. Back in the middle ages when Europeans let the sciences lapse and Islam was making scientific discoveries and capitalizing on those sciences from conquered territories; they discovered many medicinal and food production uses for many shrubs.

Now these fools want to go back to a time predating their "best and most productive" times. I sure hope as a surgeon that he uses better science than this on his patients, otherwise he may as well just do voodoo and stick pins in dolls.

He's a "surgeon by training" which means (if you parse it correctly) that he did at least some post-graduate medical training in surgery but isn't actually a practicing surgeon.

Otherwise he would have been described simply as a "surgeon" (not a "surgeon by training").

He may not even have EVER practiced surgery (or he might have been described as a "former surgeon").

Of course they can't believe in evolution- that would mean they are the sons of apes too.

re: #27 The Other Les

Evolution means that the Universe is running without the direct supervision of the false god Allah! They can't believe that.

that is the problem. they must give credit to allah for all things.
imagine how civilization will grind to a halt if they are ever successful in spreading this barbarism around the world.

In the photo at the link, it looks like Dr. Zahar has been trying the shrubbery behind him.

re: #25 nyc redneck

Like Dr. George Habash of the PFLP, and Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Real healers those guys. And I bet everything I own this cretin in the article would walk away from anyone Jewish in a life and death emergency.

Islam jumped the shark about 1300 years ago. Been downhill ever since.

Directly under this moron's feet is disproof of his primitive belief system: the Gaza-Israel area was a major migration point for early humans coming out of Africa and migrating to the rest of the world. There are many early remains there, including Neanderthal remains. If Gaza hadn't been turned into an anti-knowledge hellhole by this man's minions, we could have dug up more proof of human evolution, right there.

re: #19 looking closely

I stand corrected.

re: #30 zombie

A Palestinian "doctor," eh?

Now you know why Arafat went to Paris for his operations. He may have been evil, but he wasn't stupid.

He would have been better off coming here to the USA

re: #32 lawhawk

You can use zatar and olive oil to make a simple dressing for salads, or dipping bread.

Another common use is to baste chicken with an olive-oil/zatar mix.

Comparison of Arab and Jewish Nobel Prize Winners
Evolution?

Arab/Islamic Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people)
Literature
1988 - Najib Mahfooz
Peace
1978 - Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yasser Arafat *
2003 - Shirin Ebadi
Chemistry
1999 - Ahmed Zewail
Physics
Abdus Salam

* NOTE: Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, was a member of the Nobel Committee. He resigned in 1994 to protest the awarding of a Nobel "Peace Prize" to Yasser Arafat, whom he correctly labeled a "terrorist."

Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people)
Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer
2002 - Imre Kertesz
World Peace
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
1995 - Joseph Rotblat
Chemistry
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1972 - C.B. Anfinsen
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Ronald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1998 - Walter Kohn
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
2004 - Irwin Rose
2004 - Avram Hershko
2004 - Aaron Ciechanover
Economics
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1973 - Wassily Leontief
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Rober Fogel
1994 - John Harsanyi
1994 - Reinhard Selten
1997 - Robert Merton
1997 - Myron Scholes
2001 - George Akerlof
2001 - Joseph Stiglitz
2002 - Daniel Kahneman
2005 - Robert (Israel) Aumann
Medicine
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - David Baltimore
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow
1977 - Andrew V. Schally
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1994 - Martin Rodbell
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner
1998 - Robert F. Furchgott
2000 - Eric R. Kandel
2002 - Sydney Brenner
2002 - Robert H. Horvitz
Physics
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1945 - Wolfgang Pauli
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich
1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
Ran out of room....

"Believe me, nothing is eternal. There will be a

big change

in the American administration, the Quartet, even Israel."

When he is asked, "You really believe that? You think they will change their view and accept Hamas?" he quickly shifts his ground.

"I'm not looking to accept Hamas!" Zahar says. "I'm looking to remove your aggression against the Palestinian people."

This, in a nutshell, is Gaza's problem. Instead of adapting to its environment, Hamas expects the environment to change.

Change!

re: #32 lawhawk

You can use zatar and olive oil to make a simple dressing for salads, or dipping bread.

I know, but how often does that happen? So much easier to just use a bottle of salad dressing. With the astronomical price of olive oil these days, the professionally bottled dressings are actually cheaper than the raw ingredients.

After all, said Zahar, a donkey can eat shrubbery and survive, but a human cannot.

If stupidity can be turned into a weapon, the Israelis are in big trouble. The philistineans always have a bumper crop.

re: #5 sheepdog

Another "Doctor"

Where the heck is the bizarre medical degree university?

re: #37 Sharmuta

Of course they can't believe in evolution- that would mean they are the sons of apes too.

How true that is, how true.

re: #8 Sharmuta

This might be the worst "debunking" of evolution I've ever read.

Tah - Dah!

re: #43 Cap'n DOC

I stand corrected.

I think your confusion comes from the New Testament, John 19:29, where Jesus was offered a mouthful of vinegar (ie sour wine) on a hyssop branch when on the Cross.

re: #38 nyc redneck

that is the problem. they must give credit to allah for all things.
imagine how civilization will grind to a halt if they are ever successful in spreading this barbarism around the world.

Civilization will also revert to the Stone Age and be defenseless to the next giant meteor (Extermination Level Event) that will wipe out all humanity. Either way it goes, Islam loses.

Bee sting therapist.
Camel urine specialist.
Amputation supervisor.
Yup, he's a doctor....Islamic doctor.

re: #46 mj

right on.

re: #53 looking closely

No doubt...

/humbly hides in corner

re: #48 zombie

I know, but how often does that happen? So much easier to just use a bottle of salad dressing. With the astronomical price of olive oil these days, the professionally bottled dressings are actually cheaper than the raw ingredients.

I don't know if its "authenic", but I've had good results just tossing some zatar in ground meat for burgers.

re: #50 debutaunt

Where the heck is the bizarre medical degree university?

I don't know but I would bet for $500.00 you can get one also.

Of course he doesn't believe in evolution. Put yourself in his place, and look around at his family, friends and neighbors.

re: #51 zombie

They can waste their youth on suicide killings, but why waste a slur?

The extinction of Hamas would be one giant evolutionary step for the Mankind.

re: #46 mj

Comparison of Arab and Jewish Nobel Prize Winners
Evolution?

Arab/Islamic Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 1.4 BILLION Muslims which are 20% of the world's population (2 out of every 10 people)
Literature
1988 - Najib Mahfooz
Peace
1978 - Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yasser Arafat *
2003 - Shirin Ebadi
Chemistry
1999 - Ahmed Zewail
Physics
Abdus Salam

* NOTE: Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, was a member of the Nobel Committee. He resigned in 1994 to protest the awarding of a Nobel "Peace Prize" to Yasser Arafat, whom he correctly labeled a "terrorist."

Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

From a pool of 12 million Jews which are 0.2% of the World's Population (2 out of every 1,000 people)
Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer
2002 - Imre Kertesz
World Peace
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
1995 - Joseph Rotblat
Chemistry
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1972 - C.B. Anfinsen
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Ronald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1998 - Walter Kohn
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
2004 - Irwin Rose
2004 - Avram Hershko
2004 - Aaron Ciechanover
Economics
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1973 - Wassily Leontief
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Rober Fogel
1994 - John Harsanyi
1994 - Reinhard Selten
1997 - Robert Merton
1997 - Myron Scholes
2001 - George Akerlof
2001 - Joseph Stiglitz
2002 - Daniel Kahneman
2005 - Robert (Israel) Aumann
Medicine
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - David Baltimore
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow
1977 - Andrew V. Schally
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1994 - Martin Rodbell
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner
1998 - Robert F. Furchgott
2000 - Eric R. Kandel
2002 - Sydney Brenner
2002 - Robert H. Horvitz
Physics
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1945 - Wolfgang Pauli
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich
1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
Ran out of room....

awesome. no one can argue w/ those statistic.

zatar That's a new one for me. You buy that off the shelf at a big box store?

re: #58 looking closely

I don't know if its "authenic", but I've had good results just tossing some zatar in ground meat for burgers.

Yeah, but I'm a vegetarian.

I use zatar on those rare times I made falafels or other Middle Eastern food.

re: #48 zombie

With the astronomical price of olive oil these days, the professionally bottled dressings are actually cheaper than the raw ingredients.

Damn our dependence on foreign oil!

Ban on trade with India lifted. Congress needs to approve, which is up in the air. Bush has supported the move.

Call it a hedge against the Pakistanis. Call it common sense. Call it good for business (ours and theirs).

The 45 nations that supply nuclear material and technology worldwide removed a major obstacle on Saturday to the passage of a landmark nuclear deal between the United States and India.

The organization, the Nuclear Suppliers Group, agreed to lift a ban on nuclear trade with India after three days of acrimonious talks in Vienna, overcoming opposition from countries fearful that it could set a dangerous precedent. India has not signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

The deal, pushed by the Bush administration, still needs approval from the United States Congress, where it has been divisive.

The accord would allow India to buy nuclear fuel and technology from the world market for its civilian energy program. India has been prohibited from doing so for three decades, since it tested nuclear weapons.

re: #64 Cap'n DOC

zatar That's a new one for me. You buy that off the shelf at a big box store?

Not sure about that, but it's easy enough to find in the SF Bay Area at any number of "ethnic groceries."

re: #45 looking closely

re: #32 lawhawk

You guys are making me hungry.
Zatar and olive oil, mmmm. That chicken idea is a great one.

re: #46 mj

Just proves the zionist conspiracy!
////

re: #46 mj

It's an impressive list and a telling comparison. But don't make a genetic argument. The world's had too much of that.

It is a crying shame, however, that Muslims have never had an educational enlightenment.

OT
Al-Qa'eda's American-born propaganda chief may have died in predator attack

Months of attacks by unmanned US predator aircraft have caused carnage among the middle ranks of terrorist leaders in the lawless lands along the border with Afghanistan, where al-Qa'eda remains dangerous despite suffering a serious defeat in Iraq.

Their victims have included experienced Arab leaders and, it is now thought, Adam Gadahn, a former heavy-metal fan and so-called "killer computer nerd" originally from California. Nothing has been heard from him for months, leading intelligence experts to conclude that he may be dead. ...

re: #67 lawhawk

"The Communists and others fear that the United States will try to use its closer ties with India to dominate the country." Reason enough for Congress to pass it. Thanks lawhawk, informative as always.

Their victims have Adam Gadahn, a former heavy-metal fan and so-called "killer computer nerd" originally from California. Nothing has been heard from him for months

Maybe he's touring as a guitarist for Jerry Garcia now !?!?!

I don't believe in............
Zimmerman!

.........or the "ZerOne" either.

re: #72 ploome hineni

all over this country

and europe too. how abt. those airport terrorist doctors in scotland.
they are missing the part abt. 'do no harm'.

Sunday school sermon at an Islamist conference?

Creation, Evolution and Intelligent Design

"we covered this is Sunday school last year"

re: #73 J.D.

Respectfully, this story has been floating around for a long time. I'm waiting on evidence.

re: #76 sattv4u2

I would be grateful if Gadahn was dead.
Is that close?

re: #73 J.D.

That intro to Adam "Fat Bastard" Gadahn should actually read "traitorous bastard who has gotten his just desserts for enlisting in the enemy minions."

Since the earth is flat, could he tell us if more islamists or donkeys have fallen off it in the past year?

re: #81 MrPaulRevere
Sorry. I hadn't seen it until just now. I'm not as computer-able as I used to be. :(

re: #77 ploome hineni

and no one

NO ONE

in any government, MSM anywhere

will call them on their insanity

mccain said 'islamic terrorism'.

re: #83 lawhawk

That intro to Adam "Fat Bastard" Gadahn should actually read "traitorous bastard who has gotten his just desserts for enlisting in the enemy minions."

I like that better, too, lawhawk.

re: #71 DeafDog

It's an impressive list and a telling comparison. But don't make a genetic argument. The world's had too much of that.

It is a crying shame, however, that Muslims have never had an educational enlightenment.

You won't get a genetic argument out of me.
Just the argument that terrorists who create state-of-nature societies
shouldn't be talking about evolution.

Ignorance reigns in Gaza. Those who try to point it out are in danger of being killed. The apologists in the world are silent when Muslims kill Muslims. The MSM is mostly silent. That's why I have LGF as my homepage to keep up with the world news.

as al-Qaeda walks un-noticed in Pakistan, they also walk freely among Gazans.

nothing is surprising about Hamas shiits

re: #80 Killgore Trout

The speaker in that clip is Ataul Wahid Lahaye.

OT, but verrrrry interesting re annfrance....on a dead thread for those who missed it...follow the thread.

re: #71 DeafDog

It's an impressive list and a telling comparison. But don't make a genetic argument. The world's had too much of that.

It is a crying shame, however, that Muslims have never had an educational enlightenment.

Actually, there has long been an evolutionary argument for the high IQ of Jews. It goes like this: Jewish culture has for thousands of years been one of the few cultures in the world that placed a high social value on "smarts." Whereas in most other cultures that man who was strong or who had high social status or wealth would be considered a desireable marriage partner by a girl (or by her parents, in the arranged-marriage era), in Jewish communities a very smart man was also equally valued, or even more highly valued -- he could become a rabbi, or a businessman, and so on. Partly this is due to the Jewish focus on "the word," on printed knowledge, and partly because in many periods of history Jews were restricted by law to engage only in professions that required brains, not brawn: money-lending, banking, transcribing, writing, fixing, etc. So, men who were seen as well-equipped for success in those fields were viewed as being attractive potential fathers/providers. The end result, evolutionarily speaking, is that smart Jewish men were more likely to have kids and pass their genes on than were smart men in other cultures. These smart guys' kids would tend to be smart as well, and multiply that by 1,000 generations and you get a population of (on average) smart people.

It's a pretty rare socio-sexual phenomenon, and it may explain the intellectual performance of modern Jews as a whole.

BTW, this is not my personal theory, but one that has been widely bandied about.

re: #85 J.D.

No sweat, I want it to be true, but at various times people have been reportedly killed or captured only to find out the reports were inaccurate.

Mahmoud Zahar doesn’t believe in evolution. And he has not evolved.

And I am not surprised.

re: #96 MrPaulRevere

No problem at all.

re: #48 zombie

I know, but how often does that happen? So much easier to just use a bottle of salad dressing. With the astronomical price of olive oil these days, the professionally bottled dressings are actually cheaper than the raw ingredients.

I went out to my garden this morning, and noticed my nasturtiums are blooming nicely (near tomatoes ... great 'companion plant'). I like to put a few nasturtium petals in my salads. Peppery taste, 'brightens up' the salad with the color. Organic. When possible, I use raw ingredients. Probably psychological, but 'tastes better'.

re: #84 J'accuzzi

Since the earth is flat, could he tell us if more islamists or donkeys have fallen off it in the past year?

The prophet, curse his beard, wouldn't allow it to happen. He has an inter-dimensional emergency, can't fall off the edge of the earth transport system for his followers.

/s

Good news that damned Gadahn may have been severely broken up during the attack.

Does anyone know if the Donkey comparison is a DI talking point?

/s

re: #82 J.D.

I would be grateful if Gadahn was dead.
Is that close?

I wonder, is he singing Blues for Allah now? (With or without Jerry Garcia)

When I first saw the headline of this thread, I thought it said "Mahmoud Zahar: Uninvolved". I thought, "Oh, an apathetic terrorist? How does that work?"

re: #91 ploome hineni

The Koran and Hadith are true and absolute. Science and scientific facts are true as long as they are in agreement with the Koran and Hadith

Well then, where in the Koran does it talk about nuclear bombs? If it's not in there, Muslims can't have any. (Except those dropped on them by Israel or others)

re: #73 J.D.

OT
Al-Qa'eda's American-born propaganda chief may have died in predator attack

A candle lights his head.

Some people on this thread may ponder the dilemma of whether we as Conservatives, should respond in kind to the leftist attacks on our McCain/Palin.

I say this, we did not initiate the use of this type of force and have a right to defend ourselves.

I also will ad when a Giant is in a room fool of angry midgets wanting to kill him, then he would be a fool to volunteer to tie his hand behind his back to make it even. They will should feel the full brunt of our abilities and our desire to win.

re: #110 ploome hineni

I just ate a 9000 calorie mushro0m cheesberger

with fries

Holy Crap, Get on a Treadmill ASAP! Heart explodes in 10.9.8.7..

re: #104 Kosh's Shadow

heh

Easy zatar (hysup) use (sorry... it involves olive oil), brush pita bread with the oil, sprinkle zatar and bake until crispy. Also, zatar is good as a kind of "Shake and Bake" on potatoes.

re: #114 ploome hineni

I am so sorry

I hate myself

/it was sooooooooooo good

Are you training for the Next Summer Olympics?

re: #107 debutaunt

I only hope his a$$ is grass.

No wonder palestinians want to get treated by Israeli doctors.

re: #115 taxfreekiller

so, lets set a debate , have this guy and Al Gore debate Global warming.

Taxfree, Didn't you know that this issue is not debatable.

re: #110 ploome hineni

I just ate a 9000 calorie mushro0m cheesberger

with fries

So the fries were in addition to the 9000 calorie mushroom cheeseburger?

Oh, my.
My, my, my.

Did Palin call Barack a Sambo and Hillary a Bitch? [Link: www.dailykos.com...] .......they just cant help themselves...

Allah has made Gaza Islamic.

I thought it was the swords of Muslim invaders striking down its former Christian and pagan inhabitants that made Gaza Islamic. Silly me. I am glad to be corrected.

re: #76 sattv4u2

Their victims have Adam Gadahn, a former heavy-metal fan and so-called "killer computer nerd" originally from California. Nothing has been heard from him for months

Maybe he's touring as a guitarist for Jerry Garcia now !?!?!

A former heavy metal fan? There you go, proof positive that you go insane if you stop listening to heavy metal.

/rock on!

So, a donkey is more evolved than a human?

Zahar, you're not human, so yes a donkey is more evolved than you.

re: #110 ploome hineni

I just ate a 9000 calorie mushro0m cheesberger

with fries

only 13,000 more calories today and you equal Micheal Phelps

re: #123 ploome hineni

*sob*

Don't worry, ploomie.
You'll live.
Probably.
;-)

re: #95 zombie

Yeah I know it. Most famously in this book.

The Bell curve

In my gut, this kind of "theory" is very similar to Hitler's and I reject on that basis alone, but the wikipedia entry gives a good breakdown of all the research flaw.

You become the man you want to be. Don't feed me a bunch of crap that anything is determined by genetic.

Decided to raise my blood pressure so I turned on the idiot box and have
Frontline: Bush's War

It's the famous shrubbery argument! When they break that one out, you know you're going to be on the losing side. :D

This month, a defiant [Gazan HAMAS leader] Haniyeh told a rally that Palestinians would live, if necessary, on “salt, olives and hyssop”

They've used that EXACT same line before, is that an old article?

I'm guessing that fat bastard eats more than a few mangy olives and weeds.

Allah has made Gaza Islamic

Really? I could've sworn that it was a gang of psycho Islamic terrorists which made Gaza Islamic.

Moonbats often like to claim that the "Palestinians" are secular, what a frickin' joke.

i want a cheeseburger.

re: #95 zombie

Actually, there has long been an evolutionary argument for the high IQ of Jews. It goes like this: Jewish culture has for thousands of years been one of the few cultures in the world that placed a high social value on "smarts." Whereas in most other cultures that man who was strong or who had high social status or wealth would be considered a desireable marriage partner by a girl (or by her parents, in the arranged-marriage era), in Jewish communities a very smart man was also equally valued, or even more highly valued -- he could become a rabbi, or a businessman, and so on. Partly this is due to the Jewish focus on "the word," on printed knowledge, and partly because in many periods of history Jews were restricted by law to engage only in professions that required brains, not brawn: money-lending, banking, transcribing, writing, fixing, etc. So, men who were seen as well-equipped for success in those fields were viewed as being attractive potential fathers/providers. The end result, evolutionarily speaking, is that smart Jewish men were more likely to have kids and pass their genes on than were smart men in other cultures. These smart guys' kids would tend to be smart as well, and multiply that by 1,000 generations and you get a population of (on average) smart people.

It's a pretty rare socio-sexual phenomenon, and it may explain the intellectual performance of modern Jews as a whole.

BTW, this is not my personal theory, but one that has been widely bandied about.

Here's the article to which Zombie must be referring:

Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence
Gregory Cochran, Jason Hardy, Henry Harpending
Department of Anthropology
University of Utah

[Link: homepage.mac.com...]

re: #122 MrPaulRevere

Did Palin call Barack a Sambo and Hillary a Bitch? [Link: www.dailykos.com...] .......they just cant help themselves...

I heard Obama calling McCain a "cracker honkey".

/prove me wrong

re: #140 ploome hineni

don't

trust me

it's not worth it

*burp*

it was that last fry you ate !

(not the giant burger or the 83 fries that preceded the last one, mind you)

Allah, not evolution, made man, he says, and Allah has made Gaza Islamic.

This is my fundamental (pun intended) complaint with Islam. It is a social-political system masquerading as a religion that confers upon the self-appointed leaders the divine right to rule. History shows that murder and mayhem follows quickly on the heels of such a leadership. Once you've conflated your plan with God's plan, you can do no wrong.

This is why those of us on the left feel threatened at the basic level of personal survival when a political leader on the other side says things that allude to their being in consort with "God's plan".

America's founding fathers and mothers saw the "God's plan is my plan" playing out in the wars between the leaders of pre-colonial Europe, and decided on a better way.

Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

re: #142 looking closely

I heard Obama calling McCain a "cracker honkey".

/prove me wrong

your 1st problem is unlike the Palin stories source ( "overheard by an unamed source in an unknown restaurant") we CAN trace it back to you. Other than that, not so much !

re: #106 Kosh's Shadow

Well then, where in the Koran does it talk about nuclear bombs? If it's not in there, Muslims can't have any. (Except those dropped on them by Israel or others)

Qur'an 9:5, "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

re: #133 ploome hineni

think about it

the only time that genetic has any relationship to performance of intelligence, is when you are breeding dogs or horses

everything the breeder knows to be true among animals

is considered racist if applied to humans

Extending the genetic arguments gets into shakey moral and ethical grounds. Dogs and Horses do not reason. Dogs and Horses give conditioned response. If you think breeding horses and breeding humans should be made the same, I would disagree.

re: #130 DeafDog

Yeah I know it. Most famously in this book.

The Bell curve

In my gut, this kind of "theory" is very similar to Hitler's and I reject on that basis alone, but the wikipedia entry gives a good breakdown of all the research flaw.

You become the man you want to be. Don't feed me a bunch of crap that anything is determined by genetic.

You need to read The Adapted Mind: Evolutionary Psychology and the Generation of Culture by Jerome H. Barkow, John Tooby, and Leda Cosmides.

re: #133 ploome hineni

think about it

the only time that genetic has any relationship to performance of intelligence, is when you are breeding dogs or horses

everything the breeder knows to be true among animals

is considered racist if applied to humans

Of course.

Throughout recorded human history it was axiomatic that traits of the parents get passed on to the offspring, physical and intellectual.

There are gobs of scientific data proving that at least a significant portion of intelligence (exactly how much is debatable) is heritable.

Except in the last 25 years, actually saying this makes you a racist. (As does pointing out any scientifically demonstrable differences between varying populations of humans).

Say that Caucasians, on average, have lighter skin than another group, and nobody bats an eye. But say that they have higher IQs (which is statistically true), and you're a racist, plus that damn IQ test is itself racist (including the purely visual or mathematical parts).

re: #145 sattv4u2

your 1st problem is unlike the Palin stories source ( "overheard by an unamed source in an unknown restaurant") we CAN trace it back to you. Other than that, not so much !

Ummm. . .
I meant to say that someone else I know overheard Obama calleing McCain a "honkey redneck cracker".

/Its not hearsay so long as it attacks a Republican.

re: #14 lawhawk

Did someone say shrubbery?

A path, a path!

re: #131 ploome hineni
/nickle and dimed to death

I feel your pain

I find it to be surpassingly strange that leftists who embrace evolutionary theory appear to demand that everyone believe that it stopped in humans 70,000 years ago. It is politically incorrect, even though scientifically valid, to point out that evolution in humans is progressing at a more rapid rate than ever before, mainly due to the fact that it can operate in a population of 7 billion, inhabiting all kinds of different climatic and social environments.

re: #151 looking closely

Ummm. . .
I meant to say that someone else I know overheard Obama calleing McCain a "honkey redneck cracker".

/Its not hearsay so long as it attacks a Republican.

NOW you're on track !

re: #122 MrPaulRevere

Deleted already. We here at LGF seem to have a better grasp on whats going over there than their admins. do

re: #144 amused

Scriptures, n. The sacred book of our holy religion, as distingushed from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based. - Ambrose Bierce

re: #154 Salamantis

I find it to be surpassingly strange that leftists who embrace evolutionary theory appear to demand that everyone believe that it stopped in humans 70,000 years ago.

I don't. What I embrace is the concept that raw bloody survival is no longer driving evolution because we can now apply genetic engineering and "evolve" ourselves into anything we want to be. I think that's the cutting edge that the culture wars are balanced on. Are we up to taking on the responsibility of designing ourselves?

"For Gaza, this could be a problem."

Gaza's biggest problems, in no particular order:

1 - it's a terrorist thugocracy hiding behind human shields,

2 - economic deprivation as a result of mobilizing the economy for terrorist purposes and screwing up opportunities to work with Israel to create wealth, and

3 - an educational system dominated by indoctrination of the young to hate Israel and see Israelis as subhuman to believe in Creationism

. . .

Stupid journalists.

re: #148 DeafDog

Extending the genetic arguments gets into shakey moral and ethical grounds. Dogs and Horses do not reason. Dogs and Horses give conditioned response. If you think breeding horses and breeding humans should be made the same, I would disagree.

Breeding horses and dogs? What's wrong with you! The offspring will look odd.

re: #161 amused

I don't. What I embrace is the concept that raw bloody survival is no longer driving evolution because we can now apply genetic engineering and "evolve" ourselves into anything we want to be. I think that's the cutting edge that the culture wars are balanced on. Are we up to taking on the responsibility of designing ourselves?

Let us also not forget memetic evolution. It operates on the level of ideas and the words and behaviors that they spawn, rather than by physical configuration, but much more quickly than genetic evolution operates. Religions and political systems are competing memeplexes.

re: #46 mj

This supports the Islamic claim that the Jews invented AIDS.

But before AIDS they in they invented the HERV (human endogenous retro-virus) Which is closely related to HIV.

As we now know ERV's greatly speed up evolution: [Link: cat.inist.fr...] This would account for the higher IQ of the jews (avge 110-115 points)

Afterwards it would be easy to mutate the ERV into HIV and spread it to Muslims via a vector. (?goats or camels)

Before anyone gets ideas, I have taken out an international copy right on this theory.

re: #142 looking closely

I heard Obama calling McCain a "cracker honkey".

/prove me wrong

No he said he was an "old cracker honkey" that's what I heard.

re: #156 ploome hineni

(shhhhhhhhhh)

/

Exactly.

I probably shouldn't even have typed that, because now I'll be accused of being a racist, and this blog will be accused of being racist.

Political correctness mandates that all groups of humans are exactly the same in every way, with the possible exception of physical appearance (and even going there is dicey).

re: #149 Salamantis

You need to read The Adapted Mind: Evolutionary Psychology and the Generation of Culture by Jerome H. Barkow, John Tooby, and Leda Cosmides.

I read through the wikipedia on the essay.

Wiki

It gets heavy, quickly, so I'm not sure I caught it all. But the main idea I took is that humans are continuing to evolve and that genetic evolution is predetermining our behavior....I'm not impressed, but I'm not a scientist, either. What am I missing? What's the big deal about the big idea?

Allah could make Gaza un-Islamic in about three seconds, if they're not careful.

re: #165 mad doc

This supports the Islamic claim that the Jews invented AIDS.

But before AIDS they in they invented the HERV (human endogenous retro-virus) Which is closely related to HIV.

As we now know ERV's greatly speed up evolution: [Link: cat.inist.fr...] This would account for the higher IQ of the jews (avge 110-115 points)

Afterwards it would be easy to mutate the ERV into HIV and spread it to Muslims via a vector. (?goats or camels)

Before anyone gets ideas, I have taken out an international copy right on this theory.

I suspect that AIDS has been around a long time, and that ancient proscriptions for monogamy and against marrying outside one's tribal or ethnic group were ancient social means of preventing its entrance into a population. Those who adopted such rules survived; those who didn't, didn't.

re: #147 akak

Qur'an 9:5, "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

But this must apply only to the strategies of war that Mohammed used, like breaking treaties. After all Mo was perfect; why do they need anything he didn't have?

re: #164 Salamantis

Let us also not forget memetic evolution. It operates on the level of ideas and the words and behaviors that they spawn, rather than by physical configuration, but much more quickly than genetic evolution operates. Religions and political systems are competing memeplexes.

Agreed. But the cycle between abstract idea and physical implementation is getting shorter and shorter. An active imagination will get very frustrated with physical reality.

re: #163 debutaunt

Breeding horses and dogs? What's wrong with you! The offspring will look odd.

Isn't that were Hogs come from?

re: #163 debutaunt

Breeding horses and dogs? What's wrong with you! The offspring will look odd.

Can I get a poodlemino?

re: #168 DeafDog

I read through the wikipedia on the essay.

Wiki

It gets heavy, quickly, so I'm not sure I caught it all. But the main idea I took is that humans are continuing to evolve and that genetic evolution is predetermining our behavior....I'm not impressed, but I'm not a scientist, either. What am I missing? What's the big deal about the big idea?

The idea is that not only our bodies, but also our brains, are adapted by natural selection. This would explain the fact that infants are repelled by visual cliffs (those who weren't tumbled to their deaths), an almost universal revulsion to spiders and snakes (so many of them are poisonous), and the fact that distant objects on our level, being more likely to be threats, are perceived as larger than objects high above or below us (which explains why the sun and moon appear larger on the horizon than they do when they're overhead), among other idiosyncrasies.

A donkey walks into a bar and orders a scotch....

Are we up to taking on the responsibility of designing ourselves?

that is no longer a question to be debated.

Huh? Are you saying we have no choice but to proceed, or that we should have already given up?

re: #179 So?

A donkey walks into a bar and orders a scotch....

And the bartender says "Teddy, haven't seen you in a while"

re: #166 BBev

No he said he was an "old cracker honkey" that's what I heard.

I heard cracked - was it cracker?

re: #179 So?

A donkey walks into a bar and orders a scotch....

and the bar tender says "hey buddy why the long face"

re: #182 debutaunt

I heard cracked - was it cracker?

No I heard cracker

re: #176 DeafDog

Isn't that were Hogs come from?

I thought they came from Milwaukee.

re: #178 Salamantis

The idea is that not only our bodies, but also our brains, are adapted by natural selection. This would explain the fact that infants are repelled by visual cliffs (those who weren't tumbled to their deaths), an almost universal revulsion to spiders and snakes (so many of them are poisonous), and the fact that distant objects on our level, being more likely to be threats, are perceived as larger than objects high above or below us (which explains why the sun and moon appear larger on the horizon than they do when they're overhead), among other idiosyncrasies.

It's been a long time since I struggled through intro to Philosophy, but these same items were noticed by Kant and Hume when discussing empercism or idealists. It really gets to the fundementals of what knowledge is.

While I will ackknowledge that some knowledge is inate, (aka, Domain-specific mechanisms according to the essay), the overwhelming majority of knowledge that we possess is learned (aka

re: #177 Kosh's Shadow

Can I get a poodlemino?

hahahahahahhahahahaa

#187 - Oh, THAT stuff

No, I'm not talking about eugenics. I'm talking about direct manipulation of our DNA. A one step transformation.

re: #186 DeafDog

It's been a long time since I struggled through intro to Philosophy, but these same items were noticed by Kant and Hume when discussing empercism or idealists. It really gets to the fundementals of what knowledge is.

While I will ackknowledge that some knowledge is inate, (aka, Domain-specific mechanisms according to the essay), the overwhelming majority of knowledge that we possess is learned (aka

Have you checked out the Minnesota Twin Studies (no, not the baseball team)? They checked out identical twins who were raised separately, and came up with the Rule of Two Thirds: two thirds of our attitudinal preferences are genetic, and one third are environmental:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #95 zombie

I entirely agree with you--it is well-settled that "Jewish culture has for thousands of years been one of the few cultures in the world that placed a high social value on 'smarts.'"

re: #178 Salamantis

The idea is that not only our bodies, but also our brains, are adapted by natural selection. This would explain the fact that infants are repelled by visual cliffs (those who weren't tumbled to their deaths), an almost universal revulsion to spiders and snakes (so many of them are poisonous), and the fact that distant objects on our level, being more likely to be threats, are perceived as larger than objects high above or below us (which explains why the sun and moon appear larger on the horizon than they do when they're overhead), among other idiosyncrasies.

(reposting - I hit the post button by mistake previously)

It's been a long time since I struggled through intro to Philosophy, but these same items were noticed by Kant and Hume when discussing empercism or idealists. It really gets to the fundementals of what knowledge is.

While I will ackknowledge that some knowledge is inate, (aka, Domain-specific mechanisms according to the essay), the overwhelming majority of knowledge that we possess is learned (aka the domain general mechanisms according to the essay).

Humans learn. Some of us are lucky enough to be in good learning environments and some of us are not so lucky. This is what I believe.

This belief has to be questioned, however, when it comes those who are "gifted" in math and science? The boy (or girl) wonder who understands nuclear science or the nobel prize winners that were previously mentioned. Is their brilliance explained by a "smart" gene?

My response is - maybe, but that smart gene is equally distributed in all. I see no evidence of that one group of humans is smarter than another...even lots of jews who are smart does not convince me. Why not? Because they had an environment that allowed them to excel to new heights. It could be that a kalahari bush man has the same smart-gene in his brain. With his extra brain cell he is more adaptive to his surroundings, perhaps, but there is no reason that it would make news.

If you read through this - thanks. I hope it made sense.

re: #17 mad doc

Seriously, If Mahmoud Zahar believed in evolution would that have been likely to have made him any better?

If he had understood it, it might have meant he was smarter, and conceivably better.

re: #192 DeafDog

(reposting - I hit the post button by mistake previously)

It's been a long time since I struggled through intro to Philosophy, but these same items were noticed by Kant and Hume when discussing empercism or idealists. It really gets to the fundementals of what knowledge is.

While I will ackknowledge that some knowledge is inate, (aka, Domain-specific mechanisms according to the essay), the overwhelming majority of knowledge that we possess is learned (aka the domain general mechanisms according to the essay).

Humans learn. Some of us are lucky enough to be in good learning environments and some of us are not so lucky. This is what I believe.

This belief has to be questioned, however, when it comes those who are "gifted" in math and science? The boy (or girl) wonder who understands nuclear science or the nobel prize winners that were previously mentioned. Is their brilliance explained by a "smart" gene?

My response is - maybe, but that smart gene is equally distributed in all. I see no evidence of that one group of humans is smarter than another...even lots of jews who are smart does not convince me. Why not? Because they had an environment that allowed them to excel to new heights. It could be that a kalahari bush man has the same smart-gene in his brain. With his extra brain cell he is more adaptive to his surroundings, perhaps, but there is no reason that it would make news.

If you read through this - thanks. I hope it made sense.

Men adapted to be better hunters; this entailed that they were selected for their visuospatial abilities. Women adapted to be better childraisers; this entailed that they were selected for their linguistic abilities, to better instruct their children. And we do indeed find that, staistically, men are better at visuospatial tasks, and women are better at linguistic communication. Of course, what is true for a group does not dictate the abilities of the individual.

re: #186 DeafDog

It's been a long time since I struggled through intro to Philosophy, but these same items were noticed by Kant and Hume when discussing empercism or idealists. It really gets to the fundementals of what knowledge is.

While I will ackknowledge that some knowledge is inate, (aka, Domain-specific mechanisms according to the essay), the overwhelming majority of knowledge that we possess is learned (aka

It is perhaps not the knowledge (innate or learned) that is as significant in this context, as how we respond to it. In other words our emotions, and they are probably more innate than learned.

We do not get to pick and choose what solid science we accept and what solid science we deny, any more than creationists can embrace the Big Bang theory, because it points to a beginning, and yet reject evolutionary theory, because it points away from independent as is species creation.

re: #172 ploome hineni

lol

/?

If true, that could explain why all the Jews I have known were atheists.

BTW, has anyone heard from Reine since Gustav?

re: #190 Salamantis

Have you checked out the Minnesota Twin Studies (no, not the baseball team)? They checked out identical twins who were raised separately, and came up with the Rule of Two Thirds: two thirds of our attitudinal preferences are genetic, and one third are environmental:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Brother, you are a wealth of studies!

This is interesting stuff, but - and I'm assuming that all the twins were raised in an American or European culture - it seems to me that there is an overlying cultural phenomena that is as important as genetics. So to say that differences are explained by environment and similarities are genetic is an oversimplification. You and I, for example, probably share many similar qualities even though we were raised differently and have different genetics. Why? Because we are both Americans (another assumption on my part).

BTW - what enquiring minds want to know is whether every good twin had an evil twin with a moustache.

re: #196 Naso Tang

It is perhaps not the knowledge (innate or learned) that is as significant in this context, as how we respond to it. In other words our emotions, and they are probably more innate than learned.

good point

re: #30 zombie

A Palestinian "doctor," eh?

Now you know why Arafat went to Paris for his operations. He may have been evil, but he wasn't stupid.

He went to Paris because he could pay the French to keep the secret (sort of) that he was dying from AIDS. His own doctors would probably have poisoned him and said the Jews did it, just to save themselves the shame.

re: #198 Naso Tang

Maybe you just hang around with dumb Jews.
Hey, wait. David Berlinski from the Discovery institute is an agnostic. Weird!

re: #190 Salamantis

Have you checked out the Minnesota Twin Studies (no, not the baseball team)? They checked out identical twins who were raised separately, and came up with the Rule of Two Thirds: two thirds of our attitudinal preferences are genetic, and one third are environmental:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I think an update on that that was in the WSJ Friday.

re: #200 DeafDog

Brother, you are a wealth of studies!

This is interesting stuff, but - and I'm assuming that all the twins were raised in an American or European culture - it seems to me that there is an overlying cultural phenomena that is as important as genetics. So to say that differences are explained by environment and similarities are genetic is an oversimplification. You and I, for example, probably share many similar qualities even though we were raised differently and have different genetics. Why? Because we are both Americans (another assumption on my part).

BTW - what enquiring minds want to know is whether every good twin had an evil twin with a moustache.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Sources of human psychological differences: the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart
TJ Bouchard Jr, DT Lykken, M McGue, NL Segal, and A Tellegen
Department of Psychology, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis 55455.

Since 1979, a continuing study of monozygotic and dizygotic twins, separated in infancy and reared apart, has subjected more than 100 sets of reared-apart twins or triplets to a week of intensive psychological and physiological assessment. Like the prior, smaller studies of monozygotic twins reared apart, about 70% of the variance in IQ was found to be associated with genetic variation. On multiple measures of personality and temperament, occupational and leisure-time interests, and social attitudes, monozygotic twins reared apart are about as similar as are monozygotic twins reared together. These findings extend and support those from numerous other twin, family, and adoption studies. It is a plausible hypothesis that genetic differences affect psychological differences largely indirectly, by influencing the effective environment of the developing child. This evidence for the strong heritability of most psychological traits, sensibly construed, does not detract from the value or importance of parenting, education, and other propaedeutic interventions.

That's just too rich. The guy's the fookin' missing link, fer cryin' out loud!

re: #203 mad doc

Maybe you just hang around with dumb Jews.
Hey, wait. David Berlinski from the Discovery institute is an agnostic. Weird!

lol.

Based on their communications versus yours, I kind of doubt it.

re: #206 ploome hineni

I am sure you did not mean to be insulting

the smart Jews you know are the result of dumb religious Jews

is that what you are trying to say?

atheist JEws are smart?

think before you type

Zero sense of humor in some people. Where's Buzz when you need a tag partner?

/

re: #194 Salamantis

Men adapted to be better hunters; this entailed that they were selected for their visuospatial abilities. Women adapted to be better childraisers; this entailed that they were selected for their linguistic abilities, to better instruct their children. And we do indeed find that, staistically, men are better at visuospatial tasks, and women are better at linguistic communication. Of course, what is true for a group does not dictate the abilities of the individual.

Men and women are differnt. And I would accept, too, that their brains work differently.

I was struck by what Naso Tang bosted about emotions, and would think that this at least partially explains the difference in men's stregnth's vs. women's stregnth's.

But this is not part of the original discussion. To tie it back to the original question, we would need to ask whether there is a statisitical difference betwen cultures of how the brain works. Interestingly, in every culture that I'm aware of, women are the nurturers and men are the hunters - at least historical (Sarah P and Mag Thatcher aside).

Interesting discussions on recent human evolution and evolutionary divergences:

[Link: www.futurepundit.com...]

[Link: daviddfriedman.blogspot.com...]

re: #205 Salamantis

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Sources of human psychological differences: the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart
TJ Bouchard Jr, DT Lykken, M McGue, NL Segal, and A Tellegen
Department of Psychology, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis 55455.

Since 1979, a continuing study of monozygotic and dizygotic twins, separated in infancy and reared apart, has subjected more than 100 sets of reared-apart twins or triplets to a week of intensive psychological and physiological assessment. Like the prior, smaller studies of monozygotic twins reared apart, about 70% of the variance in IQ was found to be associated with genetic variation. On multiple measures of personality and temperament, occupational and leisure-time interests, and social attitudes, monozygotic twins reared apart are about as similar as are monozygotic twins reared together. These findings extend and support those from numerous other twin, family, and adoption studies. It is a plausible hypothesis that genetic differences affect psychological differences largely indirectly, by influencing the effective environment of the developing child. This evidence for the strong heritability of most psychological traits, sensibly construed, does not detract from the value or importance of parenting, education, and other propaedeutic interventions.

This is a better summary of the conclusions, but I still come back to culture as a part of the analysis. It's not just two factors. Further, how much different was the environment for the miscellaneous twins. For example, were some of the twins split so that one was raised by a single mom in detroit and the other was raised by an affluent couple in Orange County? Third, I'm curious about the follow-up. This was 30 years ago. So at age 50, were there any achievement gaps between the twins depending on how/where they were raised?

re: #211 ploome hineni

if they hang with you

they must be pretty dumb

re: #212 ploome hineni

too stupid on your own, you need a smart Jew?

LOL.
Are you practicing for something?

Even when raised in differing environments, their attention and interests tend to trend towards similar things, even when theose things are differentially represented in those respective environments.

re: #213 DeafDog

But this is not part of the original discussion. To tie it back to the original question, we would need to ask whether there is a statisitical difference betwen cultures of how the brain works.

I think there probably are and perhaps they relate to language as well as culture, given that language is what we use to think with. For example I think the French brain works differently from ours (English speaking). That is a little bit of a joke, but I do speak French and have known quite a few, and there are differences even while they are hard to pin down, and of course we know the German attitudes towards pecking order, which I have also experienced.

On a more specific example, the Arab brain seems to have a problem with spacial representation, AKA maps. I have lived 10 years in Arab speaking countries and the one quite specific aspect that I found (and most other westerns there) was that it was useless to ask road directions from a local. They could take you anywhere, but they couldn't describe to you how to do it. The best one would typically get was go to (major city landmark near destination) and then ask someone else there.

Apologies to any Arabs offended. (You're not one are you Ploome?)

Interestingly, in every culture that I'm aware of, women are the nurturers and men are the hunters - at least historical (Sarah P and Mag Thatcher aside).

Simply taking the need for breast feeding into account would suggest that is a logical consequence. These days of course such rules can be broken, as Palin proves.

My computer cannot cut grass, so that makes my lawn mower a more advanced piece of technology?

re: #17 mad doc

Seriously, If Mahmoud Zahar believed in evolution would that have been likely to have made him any better?

Precisely. Moreover, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao all doubtless believed in "evolution." Does that make them morally superior to this Hamas goon?

I believe in creation, and I consider Zahar my enemy.

Hmmm. Go figure: One's position on evolution v. creation does not permit one to extrapolate ineluctably one's position on various moral issues.

re: #220 ploome hineni

you need attention from me?

feeling abandoned

Not now. I have a headache.

re: #222 gunjam

Hmmm. Go figure: One's position on evolution v. creation does not permit one to extrapolate ineluctably one's position on various moral issues.

Quite true. One should limit that to intellectual issues.

For the thousandth time, I am going to delete any comments telling me to stop posting about evolution.

I'vre: #222 gunjam

And I think it is very unfortunate that the evolutionists here are fighting the Christian creationists and lumping them together with the enemy. It would be like the Brits refusing help from the US in WW2 because of the Boston tea party.

It is crazy.

re: #227 mad doc

It is crazy.

Concur.

re: #227 mad doc

And I think it is very unfortunate that the evolutionists here are fighting the Christian creationists and lumping them together with the enemy. It would be like the Brits refusing help from the US in WW2 because of the Boston tea party.

It is crazy.

If you find yourself on the same side as Mahmoud Zahar, that's not my fault. If I were you, I'd take it as a cue that it's time to reexamine your fanatical adherence to pseudo-science.

re: #227 mad doc

I'v

And I think it is very unfortunate that the evolutionists here are fighting the Christian creationists and lumping them together with the enemy. It would be like the Brits refusing help from the US in WW2 because of the Boston tea party.

It is crazy.

We're not fighting you. We're trying to show you the error of attempting to shoehorn empirically-provable-as-false sectarian religious mythic dogmas into public high school science classes. It's endeavoring to make propaganda war on other people's children. And that's not nice, or even remotely approaching constitutionally acceptable.

re: #229 Charles

It is your fault. You are the one causing divisions here, not me. And these divisions may have grave consequences for the future of the western world.

How dare you imply I am on the same side as that evil terrorist.

Who would you rather live with: Islamic fundamentalists or Christian creationists?

re: #231 mad doc

It is your fault. You are the one causing divisions here, not me. And these divisions may have grave consequences for the future of the western world.

How dare you imply I am on the same side as that evil terrorist.

Who would you rather live with: Islamic fundamentalists or Christian creationists?

You are on the same side as far as believing in and promoting pseudo-science. You've been dumping creationist talking points into every evolution thread, and doing your best to hoodwink and confuse gullible readers.

"If I were you, I'd take it as a cue that it's time to re-examine your fanatical adherence to pseudo-science."

Charles, I re-read that sentence. Are you saying that people who believe in creation are not welcome in the fight against Islamic terrorists. Are you putting your belief in a theory above the welfare of your fellow man. Even if it tuns out to be fact, why do this? It's madness.

re: #231 mad doc

It is your fault. You are the one causing divisions here, not me. And these divisions may have grave consequences for the future of the western world.

How dare you imply I am on the same side as that evil terrorist.

Who would you rather live with: Islamic fundamentalists or Christian creationists?

It seems that it is you who think that if one is not with you on one issue, one is against you on all others.

You are not considered on the side of the terrorists but, at the risk of offending, you do have some similar limitations in understanding reality.

I can live with any sort of fundamentalist, Islamic or Christian, as long as they keep their fundamentals in their bedroom.

re: #232 Charles

That's because I don't believe in the theory of evolution. It doesn't mean I am evil.

re: #235 mad doc

That's because I don't believe understand in the theory of evolution. It doesn't mean I am evil.

No it doesn't.

re: #235 mad doc

That's because I don't believe in the theory of evolution. It doesn't mean I am evil.

No, but it does place you on an intellectual par with the Hamas doctor.

re: #233 mad doc

"If I were you, I'd take it as a cue that it's time to re-examine your fanatical adherence to pseudo-science."

Charles, I re-read that sentence. Are you saying that people who believe in creation are not welcome in the fight against Islamic terrorists. Are you putting your belief in a theory above the welfare of your fellow man. Even if it tuns out to be fact, why do this? It's madness.

What I'm saying is very simple. There's no need to put words in my mouth. You're doing your best to promote a false view of reality at LGF, dumping creationist talking points into every evolution thread, and you've been getting your ass kicked as a result. Or haven't you noticed that you've lost every single "debate" you've participated in?

Now you're trying to claim victimhood, which is a completely predictable tactic.

re: #234 Naso Tang

It seems that it is you who think that if one is not with you on one issue, one is against you on all others.

You can believe in evolution. I would never hold that against you personally. But can't I say that I think you're wrong.

I am not a young earth creationist in case anyone is wondering. I am a Catholic and I have no problems with evolution on religious grounds.

And as proof that he had not evolved, Mahmoud then loosened his collar, demonstrating that, like most Islamic militants, he actually has gills.

re: #239 mad doc

It seems that it is you who think that if one is not with you on one issue, one is against you on all others.

You can believe in evolution.

That's big of you.

I would never hold that against you personally. But can't I say that I think you're wrong.

Simply saying that someone is wrong is just not good enough. There is not a single credible argument to justify such a statement.

I am not a young earth creationist in case anyone is wondering. I am a Catholic and I have no problems with evolution on religious grounds.

All the more reason why the only possible conclusion to be drawn is that you are simply too intellectually limited to understand evolution.

Who has a higher IQ, the donkey or old Mahmoud......

I'm betting on the donkey.

re: #238 Charles

Tactic of what? My primary agenda is to help defeat Islamic fundamentalism. Which is what you're trying to do to. I am very worried that your agenda of promoting evolution is going to alienate a large percentage of the population of the US in this battle.

Maybe there is something I am missing here in the political debate that I don't understand. Possibly because I am from Australia.

re: #239 mad doc

It seems that it is you who think that if one is not with you on one issue, one is against you on all others.

You can believe in evolution. I would never hold that against you personally. But can't I say that I think you're wrong.

I am not a young earth creationist in case anyone is wondering. I am a Catholic and I have no problems with evolution on religious grounds.

One can believe that the principles of logic and science and evidence are real and verifiable, and that those who disagree can be proven wrong.

One does not believe in evolution any differently from believing in numbers theory or nuclear theory or the theory of electromagnetism. You believe in something different that you cannot substantiate, except by making efforts to disprove that which you clearly don't understand, and then you take it totally personally and suggest one is accusing you of being evil.

If you are a Catholic however, you should be aware that that the official Catholic doctrine accepts evolution as real proven science and presumably credits it's existence to God.

Who are you to contradict that?

re: #243 mad doc

Interestingly, the only ones who ever complain that I'm "alienating a large percentage of the population" are creationists.

You'd better get used to the fact that I will always stand up for knowledge and science instead of medieval ignorance and pseudo-science, because it's not going to change.

re: #244 Naso Tang

There is no official Catholic doctrine on the theory of evolution. And I know my catechism.

“So, a donkey is more evolved than a human?

Well there is at least one human that donkey is more evolved that.

PIMF
than.

Pope Benedict 'believes in evolution'

Pope Benedict has aired his views on evolution for the first time - and says he partially believes Darwin's theories.

The Pontiff said science had narrowed the way life's origins are understood and said Christians should take a broader approach to the question.

However, he did not adopt a strictly scientific view of the origins if life, believing instead that God created life through evolution.

He said he "would not depend on faith alone to explain the whole picture".

As well as praising scientific progress, the Pope's views, published in a new book 'Schoepfung unt Evolution' (Creation and Evolution), did not endorse the creationist, or 'intelligent design' view of life's origins.

re: #243 mad doc

Tactic of what? My primary agenda is to help defeat Islamic fundamentalism. Which is what you're trying to do to. I am very worried that your agenda of promoting evolution is going to alienate a large percentage of the population of the US in this battle.

Maybe there is something I am missing here in the political debate that I don't understand. Possibly because I am from Australia.

I doubt it's an Australian thing. If you have paid attention here, you will note that we have seen Creationist/IDers placing their opposition to Islamic fundamentalism second to their opposition to evolution and science, by condoning alliances with the Islamists for that aim.

re: #249 Charles

Exactly. Those are the Pope's views. It is not Catholic doctrine

re: #246 mad doc

There is no official Catholic doctrine on the theory of evolution. And I know my catechism.

I don't know you catechism from whatever, but I have a Catholic bible somewhere around here and it clearly states that evolution is recognised as real somewhere in the introduction, but more importantly there are plenty of other Catholics in LGF, and they argue against you as much as anyone else.

Perhaps they would like to take over this argument with you since I'm not qualified in catechisms.

And now the talking points start.

re: #249 Charles

Pope Benedict 'believes in evolution'

Then he shouldn't be the Pope

re: #250 Naso Tang

If you have paid attention here, you will note that we have seen Creationist/IDers placing their opposition to Islamic fundamentalism second to their opposition to evolution and science, by condoning alliances with the Islamists for that aim.

You mean when the ID'er talked to someone from Turkey about evolution. That's it isn't it?

re: #252 Naso Tang

Sure, I'll get my catechism out.

re: #255 mad doc

And now you're proving that you haven't read or understood my posts on the collaboration between Turkish Islamists and US creationists.

re: #251 mad doc

Exactly. Those are the Pope's views. It is not Catholic doctrine

Where does Catholic doctrine come from? Do you think it is like the Muslims, and some others, every word direct from God, written where?

I've seen a few Popes come and go in my life and all of them had no problem with evolution. However it could be that you are confusing the words "creation" and "evolution", which is often seen here. Read what the Pope said before you post again.

re: #254 grahamski

"Benedict argued that evolution had a rationality that the theory of purely random selection could not explain.

"The process itself is rational despite the mistakes and confusion as it goes through a narrow corridor choosing a few positive mutations and using low probability," he said.

"This...inevitably leads to a question that goes beyond science...where did this rationality come from?"

Answering his own question, he said it came from the "creative reason" of God."

Sounds like ID to me. Don't forget, the Pope is a political leader as well. He has to choose his words carefully.

Relentless.

re: #258 Naso Tang

As a Catholic you can believe in evolution or in ID. It doesn't matter

re: #260 Charles