They and the jihadis want exactly the same thing. They're just fighting over who gets to sit at the top of the heap.

Very sick.

Well, its looks like all the crew are going to turn up. So, whats their answer?

Hey, don't insult Neanderthals.

Just curious, Charles, are you using the term fascist in the classic manner, meaning a marriage of authoritarian government along with big business?

who cares?

I will take my leave, goodbye, I say goodbye and goodnite to you all.

"Goodnite"

So Jihadists or Facists, Jihadists or Facists, hmmm.

re: #5 rasachema

who cares?

I ask because I want to know if these are business people.

Grrrrrrrr.....

Good fer nothing Nazis.

I cannot think of words strong enough to express my disgust at these characters, and as my mother always told me, "if you can't think of anything good to say,..."

EOM

re: #5 rasachema

who cares?

I care. And you can find somewhere else to post your comments.

The Enemy of my Enemy is not always my friend.

(that might have been Lao Stinky, or me from a couple years ago)

Every time I get frustrated with NATO and think we ought to let Europe stew in it juices and fund their own defenses, I remember that guys like these are around, and that European history is dominated by such characters rampaging across the flatter sections of the continent seeking glory for "their people".

Anyone who buys into white supremacism is simply ignorant of European history.

Perfect... the face we wan't on anti-jihadism... a global Klan.

The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

Anyone who buys into white supremacism is simply ignorant of European history.

Anyone who buys into ANY racial supremacism is simply ignorant of human history, and willingly ignoring the oneness of humankind.

Is Pat Buchannan speaking?

re: #11 Charles

I care. And you can find somewhere else to post your comments.

Well I guess saves a me a response.

re: #5 rasachema I care. A great deal. I don't want these Neo-Nazi's in my foxhole and don't wish to be associated, in any way, with anyone who does.

Jake: "I hate Illinois Nazis."

re: #16 Carridine

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

-George Santayana

Hey rw! I've been missin' ya'. How you doin'?

re: #11 Charles

I care. And you can find somewhere else to post your comments.

I thought the "who cares" was questioning RawMuses #4 just previous to it (as in "who cares if it's a marriage of authoritarian government along with big business)

Or maybe the being up for 21 hours (17 of them at work) is getting to me !

re: #5 rasachema

who cares?

Can I say it? Fuck Off.

As if it isn't hard enough to get people to understand the danger of islamists, now we have to make sure people realize that we're not this kind of anti-islamists. Wonderful.

To the "usual suspects", a hearty "thanks for nothing" from me.

re: #19 realwest

I care. A great deal. I don't want these Neo-Nazi's in my foxhole and don't wish to be associated, in any way, with anyone who does.

Well put.

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Can I say it? Fuck Off.

me'thinks you just dd !

Hmmm, yes, that's disturbing in that these nuts are soiling an otherwise often worthy concern. But I'm not sure they're really all-stars in any sense, are they? They're not real players on the international political scene, that I know of -- I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

Q: How many European fascists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: That depends -- is it a white light bulb?

I'd like to know what it is about Europe, that the only solution they see to their problems involves either giving all their individuality to somebody else, putting on boots and shouting a lot, or some combination of the two.

re: #21 Son Of The Godfather

Jake: "I hate Illinois Nazis."

"But European Nazis are the worst, n'est-ce pas?."

re: #24 sattv4u2

nah,That poster, been around a few years with very few posts. I think it was bound to happen eventually.

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

LMAO!

"He's a real nowhere, Man!
Trying to rule our wonder land,
Making all his Marxist plans for no one!

Palin knows his point-of-view,
Mother love, she shows that too
Sending Mister Nowhere Man
to No-bama!"

re: #5 rasachema

I do. I'm getting too old to participate in a re0invasion of Europe and I'm getting tired of bailing these pusses out of problems of their own making. We'll invade Europe again and again if we have to but I'd rather not go to the trouble.

Fascists Hijacking Anti-Jihadism in Cologne

When I saw this headline I thought two things, almost simultaneously:

1. Which men's fragrance is it that is anti-jihad?
2. What popular item won't fascist try to attach themselves to?

:headslap:

Wow. This time, they'll come for the Islamists first, and then the Jews.
Usually, the Jews get it first.

P.S. -- that's not to diminish the detestable nature of their politics.

re: #29 Cognito

Hmmm, yes, that's disturbing in that these nuts are soiling an otherwise often worthy concern. But I'm not sure they're really all-stars in any sense, are they? They're not real players on the international political scene, that I know of -- I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

That's because you don't pay attention.

re: #29 Cognito

I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

Le Pen was in the run off election for President of France with Jacques Chirac a few years back. Hard to think you haven't heard of him.

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I do. I'm getting too old to participate in a re0invasion of Europe and I'm getting tired of bailing these pusses out of problems of their own making. We'll invade Europe again and again if we have to but I'd rather not go to the trouble.

Next time we keep it.........
Nah!
Too much trouble.
/

re: #37 Kosh's Shadow

They've reversed the order, it's better PR that way.

re: #32 Dar ul Harb

"But European Nazis are the worst, n'est-ce pas?."

If'n by "n'est-ce pas?" ya mean "ya'll git it?" I agree. ;)

re: #8 rawmuse You may not have been around for the first of several rounds of Charles and LGF taking these mofo's on. They are NOT businessmen; they are proponents of White Supremecy and Neo-Nazism. They are just as despicable as are the jihadists themselves; perhaps more so because they cloak themselves in the flag of contra-jihadism to mask their true intents and desires.
Charles took a LOT of shit for exposing these sonsabitches - again, perhaps before you started on LGF, from otherwise "conservative" or "Right-Wing" bloggers for calling them out. And Charles and LGF were attacked by people who had previously been - we obviously erroneously thought - were our friends in the contra-jihasist movement.
Never again.

re: #29 Cognito

Hmmm, yes, that's disturbing in that these nuts are soiling an otherwise often worthy concern. But I'm not sure they're really all-stars in any sense, are they? They're not real players on the international political scene, that I know of -- I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

just ,,,,, DAMN !

VB's pretty much dropped the mask, they don't care anymore. With the gov't in shambles in Belgium they are leveraging everything possible to further their political ends, last month it was free Tibet. They had posters in red/black/white (whose colors were those kids?) with the Olympic rings bleeding etc.

I'm just surprised they aren't putting on another 9/11 solidarity demo and then chewing the scenery with Flemish nationalism the way they did last year.

re: #40 karmic_inquisitor

Le Pen was in the run off election for President of France with Jacques Chirac a few years back. Hard to think you haven't heard of him.

Yes, you're right, I do know Le Pen. But those other characters -- excluding conceivably Dewinter -- are all laughingstocks, right?

It would appear to me that these are not pillars of the business community, but rather, garden variety politicians, of a certain, er, bent. Pardon my unfamiliarity with the topic, as I acquaint myself.

The fact that such people still exist in this world leaves me totally disgusted. The fact that they are hijacking a legitimate cause for their own fascist propaganda purposes leaves me beyond outraged.

I use the term very, very rarely, but I hate hate. There, I said it.

re: #44 realwest

You may not have been around for the first of several rounds of Charles and LGF taking these mofo's on. They are NOT businessmen; they are proponents of White Supremecy and Neo-Nazism. They are just as despicable as are the jihadists themselves; perhaps more so because they cloak themselves in the flag of contra-jihadism to mask their true intents and desires.
Charles took a LOT of shit for exposing these sonsabitches - again, perhaps before you started on LGF, from otherwise "conservative" or "Right-Wing" bloggers for calling them out. And Charles and LGF were attacked by people who had previously been - we obviously erroneously thought - were our friends in the contra-jihasist movement.
Never again.

Cognito was around then. He knows the history. This is what he does.

re: #29 Cognito

Me thinks that what makes them scarier. They are operating behind the scenes trying gain power by influencing people. Kinda like George Soros. Although he has been in the MSM it is rarely for anything sinister. Even that fact that he can't go to Malaysia (IIRC) rarely is mentioned.

Unfortunately, I would guess these nationalistic types will be growing in numbers and political strength in Europe. For all the lecturing the Europeans give the USA, it seems they have a very large problem with assimilation with the new immigrants in their midst. Is it a combination of not knowing what to do with the newly arrived Muslim immigrants and political correctness running amok? Or, is it just an complete incompatibly between Europe and Islam? Immigrants here and Canada can become "American" or "Canadian". Can a guy from Tunisia ever be German? or a Frenchman? Nope.....They are screwed over there if things stay the same.

re: #47 Cognito

Yes, you're right, I do know Le Pen. But those other characters -- excluding conceivably Dewinter -- are all laughingstocks, right?

just ,,,,,,DAMN (again)

re: #40 karmic_inquisitor

Le Pen was in the run off election for President of France with Jacques Chirac a few years back. Hard to think you haven't heard of him.

2002 was the year. He beat Lionel Jospin, the then Prime Minister of France.

No small feat.

re: #48 rawmuse

It would appear to me that these are not pillars of the business community, but rather, garden variety politicians, of a certain, er, bent. Pardon my unfamiliarity with the topic, as I acquaint myself.

They are pillars alright, pillars of the a community of sorts, the one that whats to reestablish white supremacism, nationalism and ethnic purity in Europe.

If they're going to be so blatant with it by including le pen, why not have nick griffin? What are they so afraid of- that they'll be called neo-fascists?

re: #47 Cognito

Yes, you're right, I do know Le Pen. But those other characters -- excluding conceivably Dewinter -- are all laughingstocks, right?

Haven't we been on this merry go round with you before? Don't act like this is so fucking "new" to you. It's not and you know it. Jackass.

I sense a disturbance in the force. As though someone was rapping on the pipes with a really big wrench...

Huh. I see that Henry Nitzsche is a member of German parliament.

Well, that's depressing.

Raise the alarm, then. I stand corrected.

re: #38 Cognito
Cog - this isn't about you or the MSM. You've been registered here long enough to know the wars that have been waged on them by Charles and a hell of a lot of us on LGF and the same wars they have waged, mostly through ignorant rightist bloggers, against us.
Which is not to say that some of those bloggers weren't knowingly complicit in what they were doing.
Charles is right; you either weren't paying attention or got bored with the fact that it didn't really involve the MSM, I don't know which.

re: #29 Cognito

Hmmm, yes, that's disturbing in that these nuts are soiling an otherwise often worthy concern. But I'm not sure they're really all-stars in any sense, are they? They're not real players on the international political scene, that I know of -- I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

They don't have to be "all-stars." They just have to be David Dukes.

They will be made into millstones to be hung around our necks.

Guilt by association.

re: #44 realwest

I am still aching from my own footprints on my private parts from the earlier "transposition of the blondes" comment.

re: #4 rawmuse

Just curious, Charles, are you using the term fascist in the classic manner, meaning a marriage of authoritarian government along with big business?

Is that what Mussolini was doing? Marrying those two things? I honestly ask because I've not really read much of what was going on in Italy back then. The Nazis got the lion's share of the "Holy shit, what a bunch of assholes" coverage.

Of course. The Islamists have it both ways, this way. People who loathe the neo-Nazis and fascists you have listed will shun the reactionary meeting and be trapped in silence and isolation. If the only groups visibly resisting Islamization of Europe are fascist, Islamist extremists have a further free ticket to label every legitimate objection to Islamization as "Nazi." Makes their take-over that much easier. Time to toss Gordon Brown and the rest of the accommodators/collaborators in the UK and Europe. Or there won't BE a UK OR Europe.

re: #61 realwest

Cog - this isn't about you or the MSM. You've been registered here long enough to know the wars that have been waged on them by Charles and a hell of a lot of us on LGF and the same wars they have waged, mostly through ignorant rightist bloggers, against us.
Which is not to say that some of those bloggers weren't knowingly complicit in what they were doing.
Charles is right; you either weren't paying attention or got bored with the fact that it didn't really involve the MSM, I don't know which.

It's because he IS PART OF THE MSM. And they miss shit all the time.

re: #29 Cognito

Hmmm, yes, that's disturbing in that these nuts are soiling an otherwise often worthy concern. But I'm not sure they're really all-stars in any sense, are they? They're not real players on the international political scene, that I know of -- I've never heard of one of those guys -- not one -- outside LGF.

The problem is, no matter if they are well known or complete nobodies- now Iran is using this group of morons meeting up as propaganda.

And while not familiar to most in the U.S., in Europe, these names are well known. So they make the news, and they demean the work of people who are actually fighting the jihadists and radical islamists.

Just mho.

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Dewd! "Alaskan Woman!"

If I could get a Pignose and a Fender, I'd record it tomorrow! GOOD ONE!

Global Jihadism must be fought, but the purpose must very firmly NOT be to make room for neo-fascist scumbags like le Pen, Dewinter or Beisicht to establish footholds in European government.

re: #50 Charles

Cognito was around then. He knows the history. This is what he does.

I'm not doing anything. My point was to say that these guys are laughingstocks whose rage seems to be, if not impotent, certainly limited.

But I do see that a couple of them have some genuine power, and I've stood corrected.

re: #57 Sharmuta

If they're going to be so blatant with it by including le pen, why not have nick griffin? What are they so afraid of- that they'll be called neo-fascists?

I checked out some of their more recent vids, they aren't even bothering to hide the celtic crosses etc. in some. I'd post 'em but it's not like we need more proof, we know who and what they are.

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

re: #7 pegcity

So Jihadists or Facists, Jihadists or Facists, hmmm.

I say we get rid of both.

re: #50 Charles
Indeed, that's why I addressed my #61 to Cognito; I honestly don't recall if rawmuse was around then, which is why I posted my #44 to him.

And I just want to go on record as thanking you for once again shining the light on these cockroaches and to let you know that most of us - hell, all of us who were around then and paying attention - support you all the way.

re: #73 Slumbering Behemoth

I second that motion

Time to get some sleeps here.

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

They also don't need white supremacy

As the 1TB NTFS format of my media server's new drive continues, I say good night, y'all.

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

re: #47 Cognito

Yes, you're right, I do know Le Pen. But those other characters -- excluding conceivably Dewinter -- are all laughingstocks, right?

Hitler was a laughingstock.

These guys are not only coming in under the radar via anti-jihadism but also Euroscepticism.

I know you think me off the rails in some of my criticisms of the media, but I have spent a great deal of time in Europe. They have no stable center right coalitions there because their media establishment (much of it state sponsored) have simply delegitimized any mainstream right political parties. Europeans are tired of their elites and of Brussels and are very wary of the Jihad.

In the vacuum these troglodytes have evolved and now own the mindshare.

A partisan media benefits no one - not even those it overtly intends to help.

Time to teach a class...

bbiaw

re: #65 Mosse

The Islamists have it both ways, this way. People who loathe the neo-Nazis and fascists you have listed will shun the reactionary meeting and be trapped in silence and isolation. If the only groups visibly resisting Islamization of Europe are fascist, Islamist extremists have a further free ticket to label every legitimate objection to Islamization as "Nazi."

Exactly. People who are opposed to islamization for principled reasons and not because of fascist leanings are now tarred with the same brush, and decent people who want to oppose this will be silent as well as people who don't know anything about islamists will now be prone to not listen thinking they are listening to the rants of fascists.

And those who thought they were helping by giving these people legitimacy harmed themselves and this effort more than they will ever know. Not that some care- they agree with the damned fascists.

re: #61 realwest

Cog - this isn't about you or the MSM. You've been registered here long enough to know the wars that have been waged on them by Charles and a hell of a lot of us on LGF and the same wars they have waged, mostly through ignorant rightist bloggers, against us.
Which is not to say that some of those bloggers weren't knowingly complicit in what they were doing.
Charles is right; you either weren't paying attention or got bored with the fact that it didn't really involve the MSM, I don't know which.

No, no, no -- and again, no. I wasn't saying these people are good. I was saying they're not 'all-stars.' It's not as though Angela Merkel is on the roster. These are for the most part -- and I've amended my thoughts on a couple of them -- relatively obscure personalities.

re: #78 Dar ul Harb

As the 1TB NTFS format of my media server's new drive continues, I say good night, y'all.

Goodnight, Dar. I have no idea what you just said, but if it makes you happy, I'm all for it. ;)

Sleep well!

When the moderates are gripped by moral equivalence, appeasement, and self deprication, extremist are left to do the heavy lifting. unfortunately, the rationalists are always a tiny minority voicing unheded warnings of probable future outcomes. The EU moderates will become fed up, but they will join the extreme right, not us.

re: #83 Cognito

No, no, no -- and again, no. I wasn't saying these people are good. I was saying they're not 'all-stars.' It's not as though Angela Merkel is on the roster. These are for the most part -- and I've amended my thoughts on a couple of them -- relatively obscure personalities.

No, they are not. Repeating it will not make it true.

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

I am trying to determine whether the word fascism is taking on a new use in modern parlance. It would appear that it is.

It happens a lot in English. For instance, the word incredible has a specific meaning to me, that is, having no credibility, or not to be believed. But, in modern usage, there is another, more positive meaning.

When Barack tuned in via videocast to Michelle's speech during the Dem convention, he said "Michelle, that was an incredible speech!"

And I agreed with him.

re: #77 sattv4u2

They need something to get rid of the Leftism ruining them.

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

Fascism is an elusive term. There doesn't seem to be one definition. A long time ago some kind Lizards posted some links to good essays on the subject. Then Jonah Goldberg published "Liberal Fascism"

I'm still confused. This is what I think I understand:

Fascism --as a political system-- is a one party system
--as a form of government -- is totalitariam & militaristic
--as an economic system --attempts to combine socialism and capitalism
--as a philosophy --is wholistic.

As best as I can tell, as long as we have a (techinically) multi-party system, a complex separation of powers and an armed citizenry, we won't go down that path.

Please Lizards, fill in the blanks.

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

Are you f@#%'in kidding me?! You CAN'T be serious.

/sorry for the foul language Charles

Fascism:

Fascism is a totalitarian nationalist political ideology and mass movement that is concerned with notions of cultural decline or decadence, and which seeks to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race, as well as promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.

re: #86 Charles

This isn't my area, so I'm happy to concede. Although I'd be willing to wager that very, very few people outside a certain circle could identify Markus Beisicht in a line-up.

It's not surprising that the Eurofascists feel threatened by the growing Islamic presence in Europe, what is hard for me to understand is the silence of normal, freedom loving Europeans to the threat of an ever more Islamic Europe. Does the average European not realize that in 40 (or less) years, Islam will be the dominant religion in many European cities and that that will have an irreversible effect on every aspect of life forever after? ....Hash-bars, nude beaches, Octoberfest, the Love Parade, Gay pride festivals - all of the decadence and heathenism that Europeans love will come to an end.

Are they all so self absorbed to see a mere couple of decades down the road?...Has political correctness so paralyzed their minds that they dare not even think the thought for fear of being accused of racism?

I just don't get it.

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

Are you insane, or just tired of having an LGF account?

re: #83 Cognito

relatively obscure personalities

relative to a Merkel, perhaps (although I could argue in the case of at least 3 of them a vote here, a missing box of votes there ,,,,, )

relative to the local dog catcher in some small enclave in Austria,,,, not so much !

re: #82 Sharmuta
Excellent comment Sharm - thank you for posting that.

re: #39 Charles

Charles is right, Cognito. All of these people have all been around for a long time and have had a powerful negative effect on European politics for years. Google around about them -- it's worth your while to find out about them. Their consolidation would be a serious danger.

re: #97 Mosse

Point taken.

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

There's really not much difference between islamo-fascism and euro-fascism. You can't beat one by fighting it with the other.

re: #92 Cognito

This isn't my area, so I'm happy to concede. Although I'd be willing to wager that very, very few people outside a certain circle could identify Markus Beisicht in a line-up.

If that circle included citizens of the EU, I'll take that bet !

re: #94 Charles
I dibs insane, but I've been wrong before.

re: #72 kuffar
(comment deleted)

re: #87 rawmuse

George Orwell wrote an essay on it. He decided the word has been so confused and misused it is nothing more than a swear word. It is silimar to Godwins law's use of Hitler in conversation.

re: #83 Cognito

These are for the most part -- and I've amended my thoughts on a couple of them -- relatively obscure personalities.

Perhaps not but these guys were.

re: #7 pegcity

So Jihadists or Facists, Jihadists or Facists, hmmm.

This is a false dichotomy and I dearly wish that Europe realized as much.

There ARE other humane alternatives besides Jihadism or Fascism, or Socialism for that matter; liberty-loving Americans know that this is so.

My most fervent wish for Europe is that somehow Europeans would clear the fog from their minds, and reach for and try to develop such alternatives.

re: #72 kuffar

No.

Charles, I don't know how difficult it would be for you to do, and certainly I am not looking to add to your workload, but if possible, could you please link to some of the LGF posts from "those days" here? I'm thinking specifically of the thread where you sorta itemized all the shit that these cockroaches were up too and that you - with some research help - published?
It might help bring some of the newbies up to speed.

Islamofascists or garden variety European fascists are both bad. It is the system they promote. I seem to remember a few million people dying the last time one of them got power.....I think it was called WWII, yes?

re: #107 realwest

Charles, I don't know how difficult it would be for you to do, and certainly I am not looking to add to your workload, but if possible, could you please link to some of the LGF posts from "those days" here? I'm thinking specifically of the thread where you sorta itemized all the shit that these cockroaches were up too and that you - with some research help - published?
It might help bring some of the newbies up to speed.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #63 rawmuse

I am still aching from my own footprints on my private parts from the earlier "transposition of the blondes" comment.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I respectfully ask that you not tell me!

re: #108 Desert Dog

Yes.

re: #107 realwest

I think you can do that yourself on the left side with the tag links. But lately, I have had the time on LGF that I used to have.

re: #89 ggt

Fascism is an elusive term. There doesn't seem to be one definition.

Fascism --as a political system-- is a one party system
--as a form of government -- is totalitariam & militaristic
--as an economic system --attempts to combine socialism and capitalism
--as a philosophy --is wholistic.

Please Lizards, fill in the blanks.

Fascism puts nation, race and culture above democracy, and the people who support it are xenophobic.

re: #109 Charles
WOW! And thank you very much.

FWIW everyone, you can't apply the US concept of a "political spectrum" to European politics.

The US spectrum has a center that Europeans would consider to the right.

I was working between France and Germany when Dole ran against Clinton and all the papers had Dole as "right wing" and Clinton as "center right".

So shift the spectrum when thinking in terms of Europe. Oddly, if you asked an average European to place McCain and LePen on the spectrum, they'd place them in the same place way over on the right, or maybe put McCain out there further. And Palin would be placed off the map.

Yet, Le Pen is a white supremacists as are these others on the same dance card.

This is simply due to the fact that a true center right is not allowed to exist in European politics. They existed up until the end of the cold war, but evaporated after that.

re: #114 realwest

NEVER challenge the Big Lizard !

re: #24 sattv4u2

I thought the "who cares" was questioning RawMuses #4 just previous to it (as in "who cares if it's a marriage of authoritarian government along with big business)

Or maybe the being up for 21 hours (17 of them at work) is getting to me !

You may be right, but if one would be flippant, one ought be cogent.

re: #115 karmic_inquisitor

This is simply due to the fact that a true center right is not allowed to exist in European politics. They existed up until the end of the cold war, but evaporated after that.

Interesting thought. I wonder why that is.

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

Europe doesn't need Fascism of any kind.

re: #117 Clemente

You may be right, but if one would be flippant, one ought be cogent.

I may be right that i've been at work for 17= hours ?

j/k

re: #108 Desert Dog

It was a little more than "a few million", in point of fact, The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II was roughly 72 million people.

The Goose-steppers are back....

re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth

I recall that you were interested in Spore. I bought it today and it's not worth the money. It's simply not a good game. If you're looking for a bargain buy the Orange Box. It's cheap now (it's been out a while) and I don't think I've ever gotten so much out of one game purchase. Half Life stinks but Portal is the best game I've played in years. Don't google it, just trust me. Also Team Fortress is endless amounts of fun once you get the hang of it. Save your money and buy the Orange Box, It's well worth it.
/If you need Team Fortress help let me know and I'll hook you up.

re: #119 wolfie

Europe doesn't need Fascism of any kind.

well ,, Mussolini DID get the trains running on time !

I think Europe's problem with assimilating immigrants is a big one for them.

I work with people from many parts of the world and their religion or ethnicity isn't a topic of conversation. Other than "did you have a good holiday? type of comments ==no different than any other question I would ask a co-worker.

It is different in America (and Canada I assume). Once here, you are American. Nearly everyone shares the fact that their ancestry that didn't originate in North America. It's a topic of conversation and constant learning. Hell, we love the variety of food if nothing else.

re: #116 sattv4u2
LOL, I'd never dream of it! But I am VERY GLAD that Charles could do so and so quickly, too!

re: #72 kuffar

While I am against Fascism. It may be what Europe needs.

But we can all agree, Europe doesn't need Islam.

I read your comment again, and this attitude is absolutely not welcome at LGF. You might find Stormfront more to your liking if you need somewhere to post these kinds of comments.

re: #89 ggt

Roger Griffin, Roger Eatwell, and Zeev Sternhell have done some of the best work on the "fascist minimum," in the attempt to come up with specific criteria for the term "fascism." George L. Mosse (from whom I took my LGF name and a scholar whose work gave me the direction for my own academic work) was the key theorist on the foundational ideas of fascism and Nazism in each of the countries in which the ideas took root.

You're not far off in your understanding, but do Google around for those names and read the authors' work. It's really interesting and, unfortunately, very timely.

Here's a bit by Roger Eatwell from [Link: people.bath.ac.uk...]

"The core definition...is that fascism sought to create a "new man" (especially an elite) who would forge a holistic nation and radical Third Way state. Holistic because fascism sought to homogenize the nation, rather than celebrate diversity within it. Third Way, because fascism sought to synthesize aspects of both capitalism and socialism - though it is important to stress that in the inter-war period the result was a commitment to dictatorship rather than "centrism". This is precise enough to exclude forms of conservative authoritarianism..."

There's a lot more; this article is a good start, though, by one of the best of the living scholars about facism. Hope it helps.

re: #87 rawmuse

Well, taking into consideration that it was Il Duce that coined the term fascism, I think it would be relevant to look at the form of government that he advocated/created as the "classical manner" of fascism.

Admittedly, I know very little about Italy's government from that time period.

re: #128 Mosse

Link 404 not found

re: #118 Cognito

Interesting thought. I wonder why that is.

They don't have to deal with the reality of defending themselves. They just don't. No hard choices.

Here we are in the 7th year after Article 5 of the NATO charter was invoked, and every one of these "allies" has a smaller defense budget than in 2001. Even the UK, whose Navy was recently re-structured into a coast guard.

The sole exception is the US.

That is a monumental political distortion.

re: #115 karmic_inquisitor

If you use the classic spectrum, the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in the USA is not much. That is why we are so stable. Look at a country like Italy.....how many parties run in elections there? 50? 60? They have the entire spectrum covered.....from the next would be Mussolini to people that make Lenin look like a teddy bear and everything in between....all struggling for political power. Much more "democratic" than our system, but not exactly the makings for a stable political structure....

And speaking of Stormfront, they're very excited about this conference:

[Link: 209.85.141.104...]

re: #88 kuffar

They need something to get rid of the Leftism ruining them.

I was just about to ask you to stop, but I see that is no longer necessary.

re: #109 Charles

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Wow. As one of those newbies, it seems I have a bit of reading to do.

I'll say good night now, since I'll be reading until I go to bed.

Please don't link directly to Stormfront.

Ha! [Link: www.imeem.com...]

rawmuse- if you want a better understanding of fascism, I recommend this book:

The Anatomy of Fascism.

re: #130 neocon hippie

Link 404 not found

Take the colon out of the end of the URL (after htm)

re: #134 Charles

WOW ,,,, I beat Charles to a LINK! (by one post #)

Maybe I should go sleepless for 22 hours more often !

re: #136 Fat Jolly Penguin
I can tell you that it is very worthwhile reading.

re: #128 Mosse

thank you, that quote sounds familiar. I might have already read some of his work. I have to dig thru my past reading material. I have bookmarked your post for future reading.

thanks again.

re: #131 karmic_inquisitor

They don't have to deal with the reality of defending themselves. They just don't. No hard choices.

Hmm. That's ironic, considering we're the country that's protected by oceans on both sides.

re: #123 Killgore Trout

I recall that you were interested in Spore. I bought it today and it's not worth the money. It's simply not a good game. If you're looking for a bargain buy the Orange Box. It's cheap now (it's been out a while) and I don't think I've ever gotten so much out of one game purchase. Half Life stinks but Portal is the best game I've played in years. Don't google it, just trust me. Also Team Fortress is endless amounts of fun once you get the hang of it. Save your money and buy the Orange Box, It's well worth it.
/If you need Team Fortress help let me know and I'll hook you up.

I have seen Portal for sale as a stand alone.

re: #93 Ringo the Gringo

Maybe they don't really love the decadence and heathenism.
Maybe they want to die.

re: #89 ggt

...as long as we have a (techinically) multi-party system, a complex separation of powers and an armed citizenry, we won't go down that path.

Please Lizards, fill in the blanks.

Blanks are counterproductive, I recommend Hydra Shoks.

re: #141 sattv4u2

Maybe you shouldn't. That post was deleted because it linked to a bad site directly.

re: #147 Clemente

You are so right! LOL!

re: #131 karmic_inquisitor

They don't have to deal with the reality of defending themselves. They just don't. No hard choices.

Here we are in the 7th year after Article 5 of the NATO charter was invoked, and every one of these "allies" has a smaller defense budget than in 2001. Even the UK, whose Navy was recently re-structured into a coast guard.

The sole exception is the US.

That is a monumental political distortion.

That is a Frakking Shame. To think the rest of Europe has degraded so far from actually seeing a GERMAN Luftwaffe A320 aircraft sitting at DFW just a couple of days after 9/11.

/shakes head

re: #137 Charles

sorry big guy (but what was the difference between my link and tyours? not being argumentative ,, just puter igggy !

re: #129 Slumbering Behemoth

The definition that I have grown up with differs with the wiki definition Charles provided, but only in the following ways. Fascism was always associated with the Right (appropriate here) and always involved a cooperation between an authoritarian government and big business, which may have even become nationalized or state run. Modern usage would indicate that the entire business component, and the Right wing association are somewhat obsolete. What remains is an authoritarian and nationalistic political movement, with or without business cooperation.

The Jonah Goldberg book is excellent. I read it earlier this year.

re: #150 Macker

That is a Frakking Shame. To think the rest of Europe has degraded so far from actually seeing a GERMAN Luftwaffe A320 aircraft sitting at DFW just a couple of days after 9/11.

/shakes head

Germany is a strange example. Despite the apathy of a very vocal part of the population (and the listed conference speakers, above) Germany's chancellor has stood by us without wavering.

re: #139 Sharmuta

rawmuse- if you want a better understanding of fascism, I recommend this book:

The Anatomy of Fascism.

I just read the blurb on Amazon.

Sounds like a good one. I will have to go pick it up.

Most Europeans will reject this BS, most everyone is getting sick of the crazies on the right and the crazies on the left.

re: #155 Maximu§

There you go, stuck in the middle again.

re: #155 Maximu§

Most Europeans will reject this BS, most everyone is getting sick of the crazies on the right and the crazies on the left.

"Most" did in 1939 also

re: #145 Syrah

Buy it. You won't be sorry. It's best if you don't know anything about the game before you play. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Please explain to me where "classical libralism" falls. Left, right or center?

Or has it been thrown away?

re: #127 Charles

Good, Charles. This really isn't anything to be light about. There's every chance that the big money behind Islamist groups also has affiliation with neo-Nazis, the Northern League, etc.,; certainly Haider of Austria's "conversion" to Islam is central to this issue, as was Ahmed Huber's, a "convert" to Islam and one of the key financiers of the 9-11 perpetrators, worship of Hitler and the Ayatollah Khomeini. The affiliation between Hitler and Yassar Arafat's uncle, al-Husseini, who formed the Muslim SS Hanzar Nazi division is a critical element in the ongoing relationship between current Islamist terrorist and previous and, perhaps, current neo-Nazi and fascist groups. Don't kid. Research!

re: #159 ggt

Please explain to me where "classical libralism" falls. Left, right or center?

Or has it been thrown away?

right

re: #131 karmic_inquisitor
I couldn't agree with you more. I do think that the U.S., inadvertently to be sure, helped Europe to become socialistic; instead of NEEDING productive economies instead of welfare states, if for no other reason than to provide for each of their own, and their collective, military defense, we took on that burden.
Partly as a result of the weakness of the Western Europeans after WWII, and the USSR's refusal to allow any serious nationalistic defenses in Eastern Europe, but also because they felt it was - and it was - easier to let the United States do it.

re: #152 rawmuse

The definition that I have grown up with differs with the wiki definition Charles provided, but only in the following ways. Fascism was always associated with the Right (appropriate here) and always involved a cooperation between an authoritarian government and big business, which may have even become nationalized or state run. Modern usage would indicate that the entire business component, and the Right wing association are somewhat obsolete. What remains is an authoritarian and nationalistic political movement, with or without business cooperation.

The Jonah Goldberg book is excellent. I read it earlier this year.

Every time I here a politician utter the phrase "public-private business partnership" I cringe.

re: #159 ggt

Please explain to me where "classical libralism" falls. Left, right or center?

Or has it been thrown away?

a "classic liberal" would actually be slightly right of center. They beleived in small government, or at least as little gov't interference in personal life as possible

re: #156 ggt

There you go, stuck in the middle again.

Right where I want to be, I don't like Fools on the left or Fools on the right.

re: #159 ggt

Or has it been thrown away?

Classical Liberalism has been discarded by everyone but me (and a few others). It really doesn't fit into the modern left/right dichotomy .

re: #165 Maximu§

Right where I want to be, I don't like Fools on the left or Fools on the right.

I'm an all around fool ,, does that count ?

re: #165 Maximu§

sucks being surrounded tho. :)

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Buy it. You won't be sorry. It's best if you don't know anything about the game before you play. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

I bought "The Orange Box" shortly after it hit the shelves. It is a blast. Well worth the money.

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the heads-up, and sorry you had to pay full price to find that out. So, double thanks for saving me the money (though I honestly would have waited long enough for bargain bin pricing).

Bummer, though. I was hoping for something along the lines of Civilization, but with the spark of live/evolution aspect thrown in. I guess not everyone can be Sid Meier.

I do like the look of the Orange Box (been a Half-Life fan since the first game), but as pathetic as it sounds, that is not even within my budget right now. If and when it is, I will definitely take you up on that hook-offer. Thanks, Killgore.

The CERN black hole

re: #151 sattv4u2

sorry big guy (but what was the difference between my link and tyours? not being argumentative ,, just puter igggy !

My link goes to Google's cache of the page.

re: #166 Killgore Trout

I like to think of myself as a classical liberal. But then again I studied Latin and Logic in high school and college (not that much stuck). I am very sad that the classics are now considered "dead white men subjects" and are shunned by most schools. It worries me a great deal.

I don't know, I think it would make sense to study what our fore-father's studied.

The usual suspects. re: #83 Cognito

No, no, no -- and again, no. I wasn't saying these people are good. I was saying they're not 'all-stars.' It's not as though Angela Merkel is on the roster. These are for the most part -- and I've amended my thoughts on a couple of them -- relatively obscure personalities.

Forgive me for piling on, but I believe that this neo-fascist political culture is simply the visible manifestation of a political undercurrent that is both much wider and much deeper than their actual numbers or institutional power would suggest.

This was actually the case with the Nazis during the early phase of their rise to power. In and of themselves, they were a relatively small and widely ridiculed movement, but their message resonated with millions who would nod approvingly when nobody was looking, but who were not willing to put on brown shirts and shout slogans until it was safe to do so.

Cultures that have existed for millennia do not change all that much in seventy years. In today's Europe, the crusader's mailed fist still lurks beneath the velvet glove of multi-culturalism.
This could be salvation or damnation, depending on which way it goes when the gloves come off. These little bands of neo-nazis seem to see it the same way, and they are positioning themselves to make sure it goes their way. I want to make sure it doesn't.

re: #164 sattv4u2

a "classic liberal" would actually be slightly right of center. They believed in small government, or at least as little gov't interference in personal life as possible

Most important, they believed in dialog and an honest exchange of ideas, now the little Communists shout down their opposition.

re: #172 Charles

My link goes to Google's cache of the page.

I understood everything except the "link goes to Google's cache " but I'll take your word for it ,, and sorry for messing up

re: #171 Racer X

The CERN black hole

That happened to me the other day when I dropped my tazer into a my turkey fryer. Nasty.

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

I liked the StarGate SG-1 version better.

re: #171 Racer X

The CERN black hole

Doesn't it go online Wednesday? Have y'all told family and friends you love them just in case? j/k

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

That happened to me the other day when I dropped my tazer into a my turkey fryer. Nasty.

LOL!

I thought that animation was cool; although a "burp" at the end would have been nice.

Well all y'all - I have a LARGE day tomorrow and must get to sleep, though I would love to chat more about this.
I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

Goodnight, all.

re: #181 realwest

Well all y'all - I have a LARGE day tomorrow and must get to sleep, though I would love to chat more about this.
I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road. Goodnight, all.

Night, I think I'll turn in too!

re: #179 merrytexas

Doesn't it go online Wednesday? Have y'all told family and friends you love them just in case? j/k

Yes, Wednesday it fires up.

CERN

re: #170 Slumbering Behemoth
If your civ's not Meier, there's nothing to discuss! But Portal's a great think-trainer, too!

re: #171 Racer X

The CERN black hole

Small problem with mass.

(or is that a big problem.)

re: #115 karmic_inquisitor

This is simply due to the fact that a true center right is not allowed to exist in European politics. They existed up until the end of the cold war, but evaporated after that.

This article from Italy kind of proves your point.

This kind of stuff makes it impossible for any politician in Europe to take any right of center position on anything - even crime - without being labeled a fascist, and in fact attracting support from actual fascist sympathizers.

It's a sad state of affairs, and even sadder, it's beginning to happen here. Just look at the rhetoric coming from places like Kos and other top Lefty blogs. There are many people in America who believe that the Republican party is fascist.

These are crazy confusing times.

re: #174 Shiplord Kirel

Outstanding. Very well said.

re: #179 merrytexas

Doesn't it go online Wednesday? Have y'all told family and friends you love them just in case? j/k

Somehow I suspect that the scientist who built that bad boy -- despite their quite sensible protestations otherwise -- might get just a little, itty bit of pucker effect, when they fire it up Wednesday.

Nobody's ever done it, in human history. So no one really knows...

/headed back to bunker

I can go OT right?

I've decided that the creators of Spider Solitaire are laughing out loud with every trip to the deposit their earnings in the bank.

Why?

Because people like me keep playing a game that is not necessarily winnable.

Cologne, Germany

Why was Germany picked for this event?

Perhaps these little Brownshirts are trying to wake a sleeping Monster and what better place than Germany.

re: #152 rawmuse

There is no doubt that the word has changed meanings over decades, such is the nature of language.

Here is what I read a hand full of years ago: THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM - BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932)

I don't really recall any of it off hand, I'll have to re-read it. But there it is, straight from the jerk who coined the term.

Incidentally, he came up with the term fascism by using fasces as the root word (one bit of trivia I do remember).

re: #188 Cognito

Somehow I suspect that the scientist who built that bad boy -- despite their quite sensible protestations otherwise -- might get just a little, itty bit of pucker effect, when they fire it up Wednesday.

Maybe a little. Or a cheek clench. No worries though - if it works it will be awesome! If it does in fact create a black hole - 99.9999999% of the world's population will never know what happened.

re: #190 Maximu§

Cologne, Germany

Why was Germany picked for this event?

The scum that pay them, told them to.

re: #183 Racer X

Yes, Wednesday it fires up.

Did you know that Reagan began building a supercollider in Waxahachie, Texas, in the 80s and a democratic governor and Congress cancelled it in 1993 (guess who was President then) after $2 Billion had already been spent and the area dug? They "no longer felt the need to prove the supremacy of American scientists."

re: #191 Slumbering Behemoth

Bookmarked the link. Will read it tomorrow. Very informative, thank you.

re: #192 Racer X

Maybe a little. Or a cheek clench. No worries though - if it works it will be awesome! If it does in fact create a black hole - 99.9999999% of the world's population will never know what happened.

I can think of worse ways to go.

And the 00.00000001 percent of the population -- is that one guy? -- would at least have the satisfaction of thinking, "That's interesting."

re: #192 Racer X

Maybe a little. Or a cheek clench. No worries though - if it works it will be awesome! If it does in fact create a black hole - 99.9999999% of the world's population will never know what happened.

That leaves 7 people who will. Which would you rather be?

re: #132 Desert Dog

Much more "democratic" than our system, but not exactly the makings for a stable political structure....

You also have issues like proportional representation and whatnot that adds further to what you are talking about. I see your point.

But political stability finds it way into any system. Take France. Transportation is owned by the communists. They consistently work their way into every coalition government (they were the key to Lionel Jospin's rise to power, for example) and they claim the Transportation ministry. This has gone on for so long that strikes take up their own normalcy - certain trains still run, but with fewer personnel - no one at the station to look at you ticket so no one bothers to pay - you wait 5 minutes longer for a train that is more crowded, but that is about it, except that some stations get no service at all. Then, when the strike is over, the strikers are always paid the back pay for the days they were on strike. The rail system does not make the state any money but instead sucks up tax money. No one gets fired, even after automation gets adopted.

I saw all of this will doing some work for RATP - the Paris Metro service. There is even a joke with the initials R A T P which translates to "Sit here, we will pay you."

So stability is what you are used to - the coalition governments common in these countries are fairly stable and compete for power within the coalition and become accustomed to certain real estate they feel entitled to, just like the teacher's union and NARAL do in the Democratic Party.

re: #171 Racer X

The CERN black hole

Luddite!
/s

re: #191 Slumbering Behemoth

There is no doubt that the word has changed meanings over decades, such is the nature of language.

Here is what I read a hand full of years ago: THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM - BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932)

I don't really recall any of it off hand, I'll have to re-read it. But there it is, straight from the jerk who coined the term.

Incidentally, he came up with the term fascism by using fasces as the root word (one bit of trivia I do remember).

I've read this before. Fascism, as Mussolini describes it, is basically Socialism combined with intense nationalism.

re: #194 merrytexas

Wow - I did not know that. 2 Billion and then - never mind. Nice.

re: #134 Charles

Thanks for this link, Charles. Here's part of how Stormfront (from Charles' link) is pitching the usefulness of the "congress": "This is a great chance to officially rehablitate far-right policies for the brainwashed masses - we must not allow the left the triumph of having this great opportunity prematuraly disbanded by the police, simply because some drunken low-lifes could not help but shouting racist slogans. Let this assembly be not about race, but about culture."

These people know how to do what they're doing -- which is both to promote their anti-Semitic, racist agenda AND to destroy democracy. It's NOT new, and they've become more sophisticated at it. This isn't idle chatter -- it's the real thing, unfortunately, and we all need to understand the real meaning behind the terms they choose to employ.

In the early '90s, Michael Stoermer wrote an excellent book -- Politics Against Democracy, in which he traced the continual reconfiguration of Nazi political groups as they were disbanded by the West German law against Nazi organizations, over time. Most often, each regrouped "political" organization used language that was a little more coded and their "platform" appeared to be more within the range of acceptable, rightist thought. Put that constant reconfiguration together with the famous "historian's dispute" (Historikerstreit), begun in the mid-1980s to "revise" the history of Germany and Nazism and you have a rather successful rehabilitation effort of far-right thought. (Not to even mention Heideggerian-based postmodernism as a component of the relativism and anti-rationalism necessary to both re-accept Nazi premises AND get all multi-cultural about Islamist thought. Yet another successful academic and political pitch.)

Charles, as usual, is absolutely right in alerting all of us to the presence of this group. It's important that we all understand the history and real platforms of these thinkers and politicians, so we're not taken in by them, as they appear to present positions that we're tempted, maybe, when we're feeling cornered, to sympathize with, just a little, AND when they continually change the names of their parties. Old wine, new skins. Period. No joke.

I figure that the notion of a CERN-created black hole must have some very high-level proponents. Otherwise it wouldn't exist. None of the rest of us even know enough to theorize such a thing.

So has anyone seen a cogent argument from that viewpoint? Something other than people yucking it up on YouTube?

re: #196 Cognito

I can think of several "famous last words".

"Huh. Is it supposed to do that?"

re: #197 Opilio

That leaves 7 people who will. Which would you rather be?

Interesting question. Part of me does not want to know.

re: #47 Cognito

Yes, you're right, I do know Le Pen. But those other characters -- excluding conceivably Dewinter -- are all laughingstocks, right?

No. I'm not laughing. Are you?

re: #194 merrytexas

By the time the fire CERN up to full speed I'll be on a beach off the coast of Madagascar. It Will be fine time to end the world.

If one reads the contents of Mussolin's Fascist Manifesto, it's doesn't sound to disimilar from the a typical Leftist list of goals from the early Progressive era in America:

* Universal suffrage polled on a regional basis, with proportional representation and voting and electoral office eligibility for women;
* Proportional representation on a regional basis;
* Voting for women (which was opposed by most other European nations);
* Representation at government level of newly created National Councils by economic sector;
* The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the Senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the King. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the Crown);
* The formation of a National Council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a General Commission with ministerial powers (this concept was rooted in corporatist ideology and derived in part from Catholic social doctrine).

In labour and social policy, the Manifesto calls for:

* The quick enactment of a law of the State that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
* A minimum wage;
* The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
* To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
* Reorganisation of the railways and the transport sector;
* Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
* Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the Manifesto advocates:

* Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
* Armaments factories are to be nationalised;
* A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.

In finance, the Manifesto advocates:

* A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
* The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
* Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
* The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein

Bring it on.

re: #203 Cognito

I figure that the notion of a CERN-created black hole must have some very high-level proponents. Otherwise it wouldn't exist. None of the rest of us even know enough to theorize such a thing.

So has anyone seen a cogent argument from that viewpoint? Something other than people yucking it up on YouTube?

I'm ashamed that our Congress shut down the super conductor research. Do we want to be at the forefront of scientific discovery? Or do we want others to discover. I know which camp I am in.

re: #195 rawmuse

You're quite welcome. I'm gonna read it again myself.

re: #200 Ringo the Gringo

I've read this before. Fascism, as Mussolini describes it, is basically Socialism combined with intense nationalism.

I would use the term "defines" rather than "describes", as it is he who coined the term fascism. But that is pretty much all I know about the subject, the origin of the word.

I've mostly forgotten what I read there, and my knowledge on Italian government in that time period is very inadequate. The symbolism in the bundle of rods in the fasces is significant, though. Rods (citizens) being weak as individuals, but strong when collectively bound to the state.

If a black hole is in our future, it won't happen on Wednesday. From that bastion of physics info, Wikipedia:

As of August 2008 the majority of the LHC ring is now cooled to the 1.9 K (−271.25 °C) operating temperature. The initial particle beams are due for injection in August 2008, the first attempt to circulate a beam through the entire LHC is scheduled for September 10, 2008, and the first high-energy collisions are planned to take place after the LHC is officially unveiled, on October 21, 2008.

LHC stands for Large Hadron Collider, which is the new instrument being discussed. CERN is the name of the whole laboratory which has been around since 1952.

re: #191 Slumbering Behemoth

Mussolini and his spouse were beloved by "the people," until they were summarily hung in the public square by said "people."

The second Obama/O'Reilly interview is spunoff upstairs. It's on the economy.

Obama starting at 7:54: "It's not income redistribution...it's neighborliness."

Then I guess it's not really socialism, it's neighborliness. Where do we stop with this kind of thinking? It's not Marxism, it's neighborliness. I'm not taking your house, I'm just being neighborly...? If I wanted neighbors like that, I'd move to Cuba or China. I hope the McCain campaign picks up on this.

When I was checking out these groups before, I was struck by their Anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism and so on, they seemed to regard the USA and its ideals as almost as dangerous as Islamo-fascism. Given Putin's antics recently, I wonder of the attitude of these groups to modern Russia, do they see it as some kind of ally? Such a thing wouldn't surprise me in the least.

re: #212 Opilio

They're firing up the super-smasher on Wednesday. Apparently it, much like a 1967 Chevy, takes a little while to warm up.

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

Is that what Mussolini was doing? Marrying those two things? I honestly ask because I've not really read much of what was going on in Italy back then. The Nazis got the lion's share of the "Holy shit, what a bunch of assholes" coverage.

You asked for it...

;-P

re: #207 Killgore Trout

sounds intriguing

re: #214 HelloDare

We are our Brother's keeper. The One said so.
Except his bro' in Kenya could use a break, I guess.

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth

the fasces (sp?) were a symbol of power of the Roman Senate (IIRC). That is why they are carved into our own senate walls and lectern area. They are a symbol of a republican form of government. The strengh of individuals when working together.

Another of history's lessons that has been ambushed. I have nightmares of the code pinko's storming the senate chamber and ripping the fasces off the wall.

re: #203 Cognito
There are no 'high level proponents' of that crap. The silly notion that something will be created in a particle accelerator that will destroy the world always appears when a new collider is about to come online.

re: #220 ggt

I can remember when I thought the Code Pink ladies were fairly benign.
I have not thought that lately.

re: #214 HelloDare

Lenin said you have to hi-jack the language in order to win the debate. On my block " eighborliness" means helping install a new water heater.

re: #216 Cognito

They're firing up the super-smasher on Wednesday. Apparently it, much like a 1967 Chevy, takes a little while to warm up.

Apparently, it will take 2-3 years to reach full speed ahead. Oh, would that an
AMERICAN endeavor be at the forefront. But no! (thanks to Congress - whomever is to blame for de-funding). We have Euro-scientists at the helm. I do hope that they know what they are doing and that they have AMERICAN scientific support and participation.

Jihadists warn Brits, "you have nothing to expect than floods of martyr operations, volcanoes of anger and revenge erupting among your capital" which will "scatter body parts" all over the streets

[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

Dear Mrs. Harrison,

Over the past six months, your husband has been causing
quite a commotion in our store. We cannot tolerate this behavior and have been forced to ban both of you from the store.

Our complaints against Mr. Harrison are listed below and are documented by our video surveillance cameras.

1 June 15:
Took 24 boxes of condoms and randomly put them in people's carts when they weren't looking.

2 July 2:
Set all the alarm clocks in Housewares to go off at 5-minute intervals

3 July 7:
Made a trail of tomato juice on the floor leading away from the cutlery display.

4 July 19:
Walked up to an employee and told her in an official voice, Code 3 in House wares. Get on it right away.'

5 August 4:
Went to the Service Desk and tried to put a bag of M&M's on layaway.

6 August 14:
Moved a 'CAUTION - WET FLOOR' sign to a carpeted area.

7 August 15:
Set up a tent in the camping department and told other shoppers he'd invite them in if they would bring pillows and blankets from the bedding department.

8 August 23:
When a clerk asked if they could help him he began crying and screamed, 'Why can't you people just leave me alone?'

9 September 4:
Looked right into the security camera and used it as a mirror while he picked his nose.

10. September 10:
While handling guns in the hunting department, he asked the clerk where the antidepressants were.

11. October 3:
Darted around the store suspiciously while loudly humming the 'Mission Impossible' theme.

12. October 6:
In the auto department, he practiced his 'Madonna look' by using different sizes of funnels.

13. October 18:
Hid in a clothing rack and when people browsed through the clothes, he whispered 'PICK ME! PICK ME!'

14. October 21:
When an announcement came over the loud speaker, he assumed a fetal position and screamed 'OH NO! IT'S THOSE VOICES AGAIN!'

15. October 23:
Went into a fitting room, shut the door, waited awhile, then yelled very loudly, 'Hey! There's no toilet paper in here!'

re: #130 neocon hippie

Link 404 not found

Huh. I can get it. Ok. This is Eatwell's page; scroll and link to the first in the list of his publications. All of them are good, however.
[Link: people.bath.ac.uk...]

re: #224 Russkilitlover

There are plenty of American physicists working on the project and more than a few of the rest have been educated at American universities.

re: #214 HelloDare

The second Obama/O'Reilly interview is spunoff upstairs. It's on the economy.

Then I guess it's not really socialism, it's neighborliness. Where do we stop with this kind of thinking? It's not Marxism, it's neighborliness. I'm not taking your house, I'm just being neighborly...? If I wanted neighbors like that, I'd move to Cuba or China. I hope the McCain campaign picks up on this.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

re: #225 Dustyvet

Jihadists warn Brits, "you have nothing to expect than floods of martyr operations, volcanoes of anger and revenge erupting among your capital" which will "scatter body parts" all over the streets

[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

Well, that's nice, isn't it? ROP anyone?....hello? Bueller? BHO? Anyone?

re: #224 Russkilitlover

Apparently, it will take 2-3 years to reach full speed ahead. Oh, would that an
AMERICAN endeavor be at the forefront. But no!

Actually it'll only take a month or two to rev up, do the thing, and then shut it down for winter.

And for what it's worth, America provided about 20 percent of the funding, which I think may make it the largest contributer.

re: #220 ggt

Well, not really individuals working together in strength, but the citizenry being "freed" from individuality and being "bound" to the state, all for the strength of the state.

At least, that is my interpretation of the fasces' symbolism as it relates to fascism.

re: #212 Opilio

You are correct.
_Again.

;-)

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth

You're quite welcome. I'm gonna read it again myself.

re: #200 Ringo the Gringo

I would use the term "defines" rather than "describes", as it is he who coined the term fascism. But that is pretty much all I know about the subject, the origin of the word.

I've mostly forgotten what I read there, and my knowledge on Italian government in that time period is very inadequate. The symbolism in the bundle of rods in the fasces is significant, though. Rods (citizens) being weak as individuals, but strong when collectively bound to the state.

Interestingly, the word faggot (see the second definition) has the same origin as the word fasces - both refering to a bundle of sticks or branches. This is where the word fag for a cigarette comes from.

Read in "Columbo" voice: Excuse me Mr. Obama, I mean Senator Obama, sir. Um . . . know you are busy with important stuff. I mean running for president is very important and . . . ah . . . I hate to bother you. I will only take a minute ok, sir?
See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things.
Hey, you have a nice place here! The wife sees houses like this on TV all the time and says boy she wishes she had digs like this you know? Is that painting real? Really? Wow. I saw something like that in a museum once!
Oh, sorry sir. I didn't mean to get off the track. So if you could just help me out a minute and give me some details, I will get right out of your way. I want to close this case and maybe take the wife to Coney Island or something. Ever been to Coney Island? No, I didn't think so. . .
Well, listen, anyways, I can't seem to get some information I need to wrap this up. These things seem to either be "locked" or "not available'. I'm sure it's just some oversight or glitch or something, so if you could you tell me where these things are . . . I . . . I . . . have them written down here somewhere . . . oh wait. Sorry about the smears. It was raining out. I'll just read it to you.
Could you help me please find these things, sir?
. Your Occidental College records
. Your Columbia College records
. Your Columbia Thesis paper
. Your Harvard College records
. Your Selective Service Registration
. Your medical records
. Your Illinois State Senate records
. Your Illinois State Senate schedule
. Your Law practice client list
. A Certified Copy of your original Birth certificate
. Your embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth
. Your Harvard Law Review articles that were published
. Your University of Chicago scholarly articles
. Your Record of baptism
Oh hey . . . listen! I know you are busy! Is this too much for you now? I mean tell you what. . . I will come back tomorrow. Give you some time to get these things together, you know? I mean, I know you are busy, so I will just let myself out. I will be back tomorrow. And the day after. . .

re: #228 Jim D

There are plenty of American physicists working on the project and more than a few of the rest have been educated at American universities.

That's fine and all, but is it done under American direction? Or just participation? We had our opportunity with our Texas based superconductor. Who is responsible for its demise?

re: #231 Cognito

Whoops, not 20 percent. About $540 million of $8 billion.

re: #219 rawmuse

We are our Brother's keeper. The One said so.
Except his bro' in Kenya could use a break, I guess.

Did you see Dinesh D'Souza's article at Townhall re: starting a George Obama Compassion Fund? He's donating the first $1K and gave an address for people to donate. It'll be forwarded to the Obama campaign to give to George to help improve his living conditions. Apparently Obama likes to quote Matthew 6 but doesn't like to actually live it himself.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

re: #221 Jim D

There are no cogent arguments that this collider might pose some sort of danger? At all?

re: #226 Racer X

Well if there any married folk out there who are tired of seeing their family's finances in jeopardy due to a shop-a-holic spouse, you should print out Racer X's post.

re: #231 Cognito

This project DOES sound bigger than any parts. I envy each and every scientist involved. Godspeed!

re: #238 merrytexas

I could be wrong here - but conservatives sending money to Obama's brother is probably going to put a big smile on Barry's face.

/someone else to pay for social programs and all.

re: #194 merrytexas

Did you know that Reagan began building a supercollider in Waxahachie, Texas, in the 80s and a democratic governor and Congress cancelled it in 1993 (guess who was President then) after $2 Billion had already been spent and the area dug? They "no longer felt the need to prove the supremacy of American scientists."

A Chinese version of the defunct Superconducting Super Collider plays a role in my shiny new novel, which I will not name here because (a.) it is not out yet (b.) I have not paid Charles for an ad.

Part of the story's historical background is that research at the Chinese SSC produced a practical method of faster-than-light travel at an earlier date than anyone could have expected.

This naturally leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth in Washington, as well as a few necktie parties for certain aging political luddites who let the greatest discovery of all time slip through American fingers.

re: #240 Slumbering Behemoth

Well if there any married folk out there who are tired of seeing their family's finances in jeopardy due to a shop-a-holic spouse, you should print out Racer X's post.

LOL!

I think I have actually done several of those just for fun.

re: #239 Cognito

There are no cogent arguments that this collider might pose some sort of danger? At all?

I've read on some sites that microscopic black holes my result, but that this poses no threat and a lot of excited scientific discovery.

Personally, I don't think that this experiment will affect my life at all, so I will continue to focus on my immediate concerns.

re: #234 Ringo the Gringo

Interestingly, the word faggot (see the second definition) has the same origin as the word fasces - both refering to a bundle of sticks or branches. This is where the word fag for a cigarette comes from.

Perhaps I am dense, but I am having trouble seeing the "word origins" connection there between fasces and faggot (the second definition).

Europe is a bad place. Long live the USA

When I shop, I wait and do it all on one day, which drives my credit card company bonkers. The card sits in my wallet unused for months, then one day, I buy a tank full of gas, an oil change, tires, a suit and a couple HDTVs. They usually call after the third purchase to make sure I am not laying in a pool of my own blood somewhere.

re: #229 Syrah

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

You can be neighborly or you can go to jail.

re: #215 JHW

When I was checking out these groups before, I was struck by their Anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism and so on, they seemed to regard the USA and its ideals as almost as dangerous as Islamo-fascism. Given Putin's antics recently, I wonder of the attitude of these groups to modern Russia, do they see it as some kind of ally? Such a thing wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Russia's gone fascist.

re: #236 Russkilitlover

The Europeans are definitely in control of the project.

I don't recall exactly why the SSC was cancelled.

re: #248 rawmuse

When I shop, I wait and do it all on one day, which drives my credit card company bonkers. The card sits in my wallet unused for months, then one day, I buy a tank full of gas, an oil change, tires, a suit and a couple HDTVs. They usually call after the third purchase to make sure I am not laying in a pool of my own blood somewhere.

Good thing Costco doesn't take any credit cards, outside of American Express (who?).

re: #251 Jim D

The Europeans are definitely in control of the project.

I don't recall exactly why the SSC was cancelled.

Enquiring minds want to know.....

re: #239 Cognito

No.

re: #208 Ringo the Gringo

Don't forget that Mussolini was a leftist before he came to identify with the right; so was Georges Sorel (who wrote "On Violence"). George L. Mosse has done an interesting study on, particularly, the French Nazis who presented themselves as leftist, after WWII and their earlier collaboration ended. My kid (God bless her!) said, you know, it's obvious from reading Marx that Marxism would result in some form of fascism (top-down, totalitarian, statist control). Remember what Churchill said, too -- "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947) It's true. And, it's worth defending.

re: #245 Russkilitlover

I've read on some sites that microscopic black holes my result, but that this poses no threat and a lot of excited scientific discovery.

Personally, I don't think that this experiment will affect my life at all, so I will continue to focus on my immediate concerns.

The idea of a microscopic black hole doesn't really line up with my woefully inadequate understanding of science. I thought the whole nature of a black hole dictates that size, in this case, really doesn't matter?

That a black hole the size of a pin head, for instance, could suck in Earth without a burp?

re: #234 Ringo the Gringo

Wait, I think I get it now. Are you suggesting that all fascists are actually....
/s

re: #256 Cognito

The idea of a microscopic black hole doesn't really line up with my woefully inadequate understanding of science. I thought the whole nature of a black hole dictates that size, in this case, really doesn't matter?

That a black hole the size of a pin head, for instance, could suck in Earth without a burp?

That's what makes this all so exciting, no? Tomorrow, we might be sucked into a big black hole. Makes all of today's concerns seem.......simplistic.

GO SCIENCE!

re: #254 Jim D

No.

Huh. Interesting. I'm curious how the very idea even came up, then. Someone, somewhere, conceived the notion of a threat from the LHC. I wonder how.